Good morning, good afternoon, good evening.
Hey, welcome. We're just weighing on a few other guests, I believe. Could you just ask a dental, could you just ask them to request an all-in? I'll get them on. Absolutely.
And here we go. Good afternoon, good evening. Good morning. What's up? What's up? I think
We're just waiting on Charlie. Is he still joining us? I believe so. Okay. I believe so. Yeah. Just give him one more minute.
In the meantime, should we, I don't know, make fun of some of our listeners? That's always one of the things I like to do.
Go for it. Go for it. Let's see if I recognize anybody on this list. I do recognize a few of you guys. Hey, cab. Good to see you. Let's see who else is there. Look, he's laughing away at me. That's fun. Who else is on here?
D rocks what's going on D rocks hope you're having fun
Alright, so we got Game Buzz who's rocking a Fendora logo, so I thought it'd give him a shout out.
Awesome. Okay, so Sam, it looks like Charlie's joined us as always. My name is Tim, the host for today is the Kucoin fireside chat with Indora. We have three guests today, Daniel, head of community and community.
content, Samuel, CEO of Discrete Labs, as well as Charlie and just joined the Senior Blockchain Engineer. Why don't you guys go ahead and just give a high level intro to yourselves as well as Pandora or Discrete Labs Daniel, if you want to start
Sure. As you said, I'm the head of community in content with the screen labs. We're working on Fendora here. I've been with a company for I think 10 months now. I know it's been under a year, but not too much on their work.
year. It feels like long, I mean everything in crypto time feels like so much longer but at the same time so much shorter. It's really hard to describe. It's very strange. Yeah, so that's why I am at
Fondora, this is my second layer one that I'm working for. And yeah, we have some exciting things going on. I joined the team not too long ago, after meeting a few of the core team members, and joined actually not too far behind Sam.
I think well Charlie why don't you go ahead and jump in and introduce yourself as well, but Daniel I think you may have come on right before I did yeah, but yeah, right to make your make your introduction my friend. I see okay. Yeah, so I do it a little bit
been earlier than then then then some and then you but so I'm had I'm have been very happy to see that a lot of exciting features that had been implemented by the engineering team and from from the main launch all the
way to the EDM integration and also to the latest upgrading of the mainnet and we have tons of exciting features to be disclosed to the public.
I was involved in lots of features. I couldn't enumerate them here like one by one but I'm very excited to see a lot of happening simultaneously here. I'm just excited to have Charlie
with us because he is the guy's brilliant, right? He builds so many amazing things for us here. So I, of course, have the CEO of Discreet Labs. Discreet Labs is a software development company who has put together the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,#
You can consider his core devs, but obviously it's an open source project. So if anybody's interested in building, you can find our repos on GitHub and be able to take a look at it. And Charlie is the man who gets a lot of those published. He's a brilliant man who's super, super helpful. And so whenever we have, you know,
Decentralized applications or dApps that come in and want to deploy and get the privacy and the compliance that Fendora offers they usually end up interacting with Charlie a little bit Anyway, so that's me. I'm Sam Harrison. CEO of discrete labs my pedigree and in block Finn goes back to Tezos days right now
after their ICO, which was exciting. And then, you know, I've been with several different layer ones, worked hard, I've seen some really, really high and I've seen some really, really loved. So I've been through, I think now, I think this is my third bear market. So I think that makes me officially, I've
maybe the oldest man in the room when it comes to when he comes to the equip your life cycles you're always the oldest man in the room I'm kidding man I'm kidding you realize I can fire you right all right that's not true
banter that is normal within Rt awesome awesome I like to keep things nice and nice and fun okay so so you know I appreciate you guys all three of you guys joining us but why don't we go ahead and could you guys also give some more details you know on on Fendoria's self what sets as a
part from other layer when blockchains. I know you guys focused primarily on privacy, but maybe you guys can dive deeper.
Perfect. So you mentioned kind of our big thing, right, which is this this privacy, but let's take a step back and understand a little bit about what did Dora and sorry.
I think we have some background noise coming from you Charlie.
Okay, so it's perfect. So, Fendora is a layer one blockchain, but we are very different than a lot of the other blockchain out there. We are EVM compatible, but we have what's known as a dual chain architecture. We have a base chain which is
based on the architecture of Bitcoin and the UTXO unspent transaction output chain. Then we have an atomic swap bridge effectively between that UTXO chain and an EVM compatible layer chain. And this dual chain architecture allows us to do stuff that really no other thing has
has been able to do to date, which is really, really cool as far as privacy goes. We announced this at consensus about two weeks ago, something called triple masking, which allows the user to mask the address, the two-in-from address, the asset that's being sent, and the amount of that asset, right?
And that is completely in control of the user. That's not something that we control. But we are also built in a compliance layer. So when you deploy a contract onto Fendora, and let's keep in mind that any sort of the equivalent of ERC 20 tokens on Ethereum, we have an F-
That's a smart contract. And when you deploy that onto Fendora, you have the ability to actually trace that asset. It's only given to you. So Fendora doesn't have that ability or discrete labs doesn't have that ability. But it allows you to be compliant if, for example, somebody comes knocking at your door.
And he says, hey, he uses a pena. We want to make sure that that asset that you deployed is not being used in money laundering. And you can say, well, of course, that's simple, right? Let me show you the asset trace in one band. I'm free and clear. I'm fully compliant. Don't even worry about it. So that's one of the things that we've built. Now, the idea here is that#
This is the culmination may be too strong, but now we have all the various different first principles of blockchain technology actually in practice and in production. We have real privacy that's totally encrypted. We have real compliance.
And we have the real ability to move assets without any sort of third party. So finally, we're getting to the stage where the promise of blockchain technology and the ability to truly own your digital assets has actually like finally been put into place. So I'll pause there because sometimes I ramble. I don't want to ramble too far.
Yeah, I think that's a great high level overview. Charlie and Daniel, do you guys have anything to add? Well, so I can go, I can go then. So it seems to me, I mean, I myself is a blockchain here, but the first glance when I see triple masking,
I was actually amazed as well. And also, I spent a lot of time to look into the details into its implementation. So the most different, I mean, significant difference thing in triple masking stats.
in the open ledger, Ethereum, in their transaction, in their transaction. We actually can see everything or every piece of information or the meaning of the transaction from exporter. But in our case, to the public, nobody actually can decode
the information of the transaction. So the meaning of the transaction is not known to the public. So that means in a database, Findora actually stores everything encrypted except for those
those users who trigger that transaction, they can see what's in the transaction, but anyone else they can see it. So this is the first thing that's different. And secondly, when we see a Ethereum transaction, what we can see? So we can see them out.
We can see the sender and the receiver's address. Also, we can see what type of token asset is being transferred, being moved. In our case, we don't have those information. What's contained in the transaction, the technical
We don't even include a signature in a transaction, which means because with the EC recover, take a read key, we can decode what's the address involved in the transaction. In our case, no, not at all. And then we just include a bunch
of zero-nage proof to prove that the user is actually firstly it has to be the owner of the asset that's the first thing and the secondary the user have to to say I am spending the correct asset time I'm not even so I own US CT I
I can then spend something else like Ethereum or Bitcoin and then the last button on it. So the user has to say, "I'm spending the money correctly." So I'm not like, "I have $10 bill."
bank notes, I can spend more than that or I can give a change more than that to myself. So the transaction level is only include three pieces zero-nage proofs to make that happen, which is really amazing.
But that's what I can think of now. That's actually, you know, that's a good point Charlie that I didn't bring up in my discussion. This is all powered through zero knowledge proofs. And one of the things that's really interesting for us on zero knowledge proofs is that we have a very specific implement
something called application specific turbo plunks, which ends up being 10 times faster and cheaper than some of the leading competitors, some of the stuff that for example Zcash might use. And what makes this really interesting is we've actually built an SDK.
So this SDK you can use as a DAP developer to incorporate zero knowledge proofs into your DAP and you don't actually have to code the circuits yourself or any of the really high level computer science stuff yourself.
plug and play with our SDK. I'm not a technical person, I've been in the business for a while so I can talk a little bit about it, but every time I hear that somebody has simplified something that's incredibly complicated, I get really excited. Yeah, that's true. So we actually hired
all the complexity behind the SDK because nobody actually has a developer, a certain developer, nobody wants to actually take a lot of time to learn the hard way and to know how the device proof is working and what is the device proof at least, right? So when we came up with
with the SDK for the developers. And then for our lecture, you mentioned another big thing that we created for the Web3. I mean, except for the
performance of the Zenites Proof Generation.
We are going to be zero x address compatible. That's very important because whenever a user that they have their own Ethereum or Mac mask key,
It can just grab their private key and come to Findora and they can enjoy all the private features, just with one single key. Without having to deal with different types of curves
different type of keys and just a lot messy than you know yeah and yeah and Charlie yeah and Charlie again is right here because
There is a ton of complexity in blockchain space. Let's see a hands up for all those people who understand what the elliptic curve cryptography actually is. So I think I got one. I think Slayer knows what that is. I think there are a couple other people
who say that they know what elliptic cryptography actually is. This is a very complicated piece of blockchain and this is where different curves, different descriptions of these curves are what the different layers of cryptography connect into
to do. Right. And so anybody who uses, you know, one curve is going to be using that same network, that Ethereum network. If you're on cause most, you're using a different curve. But one of the things that we've done here is we've built something that is cross compatible. So it's very, very, very interesting stuff.
I think that gives us most of your bare bones, what is Fendora, what do we do beyond privacy? I think with answer that question, Daniel Pagan, is there anything else that you'd like to add yet? Nothing I'd like to add, I think you guys went into a lot of detail there. The only thing that I actually, the only thing that I will
add is on top of everything that you guys just mentioned, just a reminder that Fendora is on top of that 100% even compatible. So you get the conveniences and the awesome features of privacy and compliance while also being able to take advantage of the fact that we're even
compatible any developer any solidity dev can build their DAP on Fendora easily and make use of those features. Yeah I think I think that's a good segue to our next point which is the Fendora's ecosystem. I know it's growing sorry I know it's growing a lot
a lot, you guys are making a ton of effort into bringing more users and devs. So maybe this question is more suitable for Daniel. Can you share sort of what you guys are doing from a community and ecosystem standpoint? I noticed that you guys created a grant program, maybe dive deeper into that.
Yeah, and I'll actually I'll let Sam take most of this but what I will say here is yes, we launched a grant program not too long ago a few months back to help boost the and grow the Fendora ecosystem.
You know as part of that grant, we're looking for builders to launch their DAPs on the Fenderer EVM layer, which makes it super easy, right, for any solidity dev to integrate their DAP with the grant program. We're also not looking for experts.
exclusivity, right? We want to break down those silos and inviting applications from one ecosystem into our ecosystem only helps everyone. It helps the users. It helps the developers. It helps our ecosystem and the other ecosystem.
So that's a little bit of the grant program. So that's just one thing that we're doing on the community side. Since I started, we've onboarded community managers to help manage our telegram, Reddit, Discord, and so on.
And we're making sure that we listen to the community that we are paying attention to what they like, what they dislike, their suggestions, their complaints, their praises, because really at the end of the day, you know, it's the development
that help build the ecosystem, but it's the community that helps support it. And community is everything here, right? In blockchain, in Web 3. Community is everything, so we have to make sure that we're focused on them as well. Sam, is there anything you want to add about the grant program? Yeah, I have a couple of questions.
things that I'll touch on. First I want to reiterate Pagan something that you just said there. Like I said, I started my my time in blockchain at Tesos and that was where I discovered how incredibly powerful all of you are. Everyone who's listening to this here
You are the backbone and the foundation upon which every single Web 3 project is built. It is all about community. And so for me, and the thing that I've been telling everybody at Fendora and discrete labs is that the community always has to come
So it's one of the reasons I really like Daniel and the work that he does is because he also is a huge champion of the entire retail network, the entire validator network. It's really, really powerful. Regarding the grant program, we launched a hundred million
dollar grand program at the beginning of the year. I think it was early February. During Q1, there was our very first quarter opening it up. We reviewed over 80. I think is that right? Daniel, over 80 projects. We only actually approved
which means that we were actually very stringent and very careful about what programs we decided to bring in because we look at this as stewardship, right? We look at this as we are part of the community trying to make sure that the
The treasury that we are deploying, we're doing the best we can to deploy it appropriately. So we look for things like, okay, what's the user base that they have coming over? What are the assets that they want to bring? What are the transactions that they're going to bring to the chain?
community. Do they have a big robust community? Do they have a lot of developers? Because all of those things help Thendora grow, help our community become bigger and stronger and teach us stuff that we may not be paying attention to, which is so, so, so important. So when I think about what
the grant program is designed to do. It's not simply to grow the ecosystem as far as DAPS and assets and DFI and NFTs and all that stuff. That's there too. But it's also to bring people like you, all of these wonderful community members into
community and help us find more ways to use this privacy. Help us find more ways to apply our compliance tools. So that's one of the things I'm really, really excited about the grand program. So please, if you are in your favorite ecosystem, be it Tesos, be it Cosmos, be it Ethereum,
a lot of wherever it is. Polygon, let your favorite DAP know about our grant program and tell them we are welcoming builders across the Web3 space. Anybody who wants to build anybody who wants to grow this community come apply. We are so excited to have you here.
Awesome, so I think I think I'd like to double click on this notion of triple masking I think Charlie you you touched on this Sam you also touched on this You guys made this announcement. I believe that consensus
this year, what can you just dive deeper into the more of the utility side, what are the use cases for this technology and go into more detail about that?
So use cases are pretty much infinite. And the reason I say that is because I have a different approach to privacy than most people have. Most of the time when people talk about privacy, they're talking about data privacy and they're talking about protecting the data
that some other organization like Google or Facebook or one of those other big data harvesting machines have gathered in together and they're supposed to protect it behind their iron walls, which never happens. My approach to privacy is different.
their approach to quote unquote data privacy is more peer-based. Mine is more this is something that you actually want because to me privacy isn't just about you about okay I bought a court of Hong Kong as ice cream yesterday right it's not just about that it's about the
fact that I create relationships in how I share data. I will share certain kind of data with Daniel Pagan, with Charlie, with my co-workers. I will share different sorts of data with my church, with my girlfriend, with my government. And I use that amount of the data that I share
to create those relationships. And when somebody like Instagram shares the fact that I Googled a mattress with the people who sell mattresses without my permission, they've created a relationship without my permission. And I don't like that. I want to be in control of the relationships.
that I had. And so now if we have that perspective of what privacy means, the ability to create relationships, now we can start digging into the various different areas where this can be applied. Last year for example, it was a really really big thing that we were all talking about decentralized autonomous organs
for those of you who did some work or saw the DAO, all the various from DAO stuff last year, flash up a heart or a thumbs up or whatever, because there was a really good idea. But unfortunately, some of the technology didn't exist yet. For example,
If you were paid by a Dow, everybody would know how much you got paid. Everybody would know. And that's probably like right now, as much as I love Charlie and as much as I love Daniel, they have no idea how much I get paid. And that's partly because I chose not to tell them that's not through
relationship I want to have with Charles and Daniel. And so being able to choose the private payroll option from a Dow is super, super important. So that's one application we can use in payroll. In Dow payroll is making it pregnant. Another one, and this is a little bit more esoteric.
Has anyone heard of something called non-frontiable tokens? If you have, throw up a thumbs up or a heart or whatever, just so I can know that some people are listening. Okay, we got some hearts. Non-frontiable tokens, of course, most of us think about them as our board apes or our PFPs.
The thing is, is when we look at a non-fetchable token, what it actually is, is it's a copyright. It's intellectual property. We have a license to something. Now, we have licenses to so many different things in our lives that we really don't pay attention to. A lot of the time, most of our software
is now being licensed on a software as a service model. Right? Like we pay what is it? $85 a year for our Windows 365 program. That's a software license. We can actually turn that into an NFT. Now, if it's just Windows, if it's just like my office 365, no one
really cares. But what if it's my software security? What if it's my anti-virus? What if it's my anti-malware? And what if I'm a big huge industry like Coca-Cola, for example? I don't want people to know if I'm Coca-Cola that I'm using Mac of these anti-virus on my Windows
PC's right I don't want people to understand that so I want to be able to wrap my NFT in a privacy layer so that I can actually use web 3 blockchain technology to purchase this license moving out all the middlemen and using all the efficiencies that we've introduced through blockchain technologies
But I can still keep a private, but I'm not exposing and making my particular attack service larger. I'm actually making it smaller, which is a great move on as far as security goes. Thank you.
payrolls that gives us private NFTs. Let's see, Daniel Charlie, I know that we have some in DFI. I know that we have some in gaming. Do you guys have anything you want to talk about with those two?
Well, I'll piggyback on something that you said in the past Sam and that is kind of using privacy to bring an element of surprise to gaming, right?
One aspect of privacy that we're just starting to explore is how it can bring surprise to Web 3 gaming. Unlocking a new treasure, unlocking a
pick up on going head to head with an opponent and not knowing their stats until it's time for that battle. Things that are part of a game mechanic that requires some sort of privacy.
We're just starting to explore that on the gaming side. We've had some really interesting conversations with game developers on how they can use Kendoor's zero knowledge groups, Kendoor's privacy features to bring that element of surprise to their players.
So that's some really interesting stuff that I think we're only starting to scratch this the surface on. And I'm right here with Daniel and it's interesting. I mean Daniel is a would you call yourself a big gamer or just like a story gamer?
I used to be a big gamer now, I'm sort of a gamer. I'm so on PC still on, you know, game on the PS5 here and there. All right, all right. I guess I'm just having you work too much. I think that may be my problem. You probably will be a bigger gamer if I didn't put some play. Maybe.
But it's a really good point. I mean, I remember back in the days of crypto kitties. For those of you OGs who are here the very first time that that we broke a theorem. We did it because everybody was swapping these crypto kitties because what they wanted to do is they wanted to breed them.
and get a kitty with a rare set of attributes. Now we've seen this game mechanic in multiple different places. Last year when I was at Harmony, we saw this with DeFi kingdoms and about how they would try to breed their heroes to get a certain trait. And almost immediately
wants DeFi kingdoms put out their heroes and the various different tiers. There is a website that started off that tracked the map because they took a look at the smart contract and they're like, "Okay, I know exactly if I want to have an outcome of this sort of a hero with these attributes
I need to have these two here, breathe them, get an offspring there, breathe those two, get another offspring. They knew the path to get there. So there wasn't any surprise anymore. You could call it acting, you could call it cheating. You could call it just being really good at playing the game. But the point is, is the enjoyment.
of the game was replaced with the quest for money. You know, as much as I love the concept of play to earn, I was bored with access infinity. I don't know how many others of you were bored playing those access infinity games.
For what were great played and earned was very interesting, but it wasn't a fun game to play and so we're hoping that our privacy features can help reintroduce this idea of surprise reintroduce this idea that blockchain gaming cannot only be profitable, but it can be enjoyable as well.
So, technically every time I want to think about the privacy or the tripomasking stuff, what I can think of
is that because we cannot, we cannot ourselves figure out every use case for this trip masking feature on the, I mean, performed on ERC 20 or
no fundamental tokens, but there are some good use cases like the NFT, maybe private NFT auction, or if something like sensitive needs to be hired
and bound to those entities. For me, I never see the use cases that our partner came up with is that they
some sort of height, the ownership of the Natty, which is sometimes super interesting because the ownership is an information that can become very sensitive.
If I encrypt my password or my marked phrase into entities, then that means if this password gives me access to a big value or something really important.
then this becomes very sensitive if I disclose it, the ownership to the public. But in all the Findora parks layer, we have additional protection and we keep additional protection to the ownership of
of the n-apti, which means whenever the n-apti get hidden in the privacy chain, then nobody will be able to see who owns that or who owns what.
So this will create a lot of potentials for
use cases, but we cannot fit them all out.
Sam wants to talk about the institutional adoption
that Fendora's triple masking brains, but Sam, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, I mean that's a good thank you for the good prompt there, pagan. I was gonna do two things. First off, I was gonna remind Charlie, you want put yourself on mute again.
And we have that background humble. Thank you, sir. So, so we have the institutional side, which I'll touch on on just a second. But the other side that I wanted to talk about is.
The Charlie is 100% correct. We know that we built something incredibly cool. We don't know necessarily everything that we'll be able to do with it, which is why this is an open source project. Right. For example, if you think about it, when Google
maps came out? No one probably had the idea that the basis of Google Maps would give you Uber, it would give you Lyft, it would give you Instacart, it would give you, it would give you so many things that you have to have Google Maps to provide and they're not even
right? Instacart was tried probably way before most of you guys were born because it was tried in the dot com boom. It was called web van. But because they weren't able to use something like smartphones or like a
Google Maps, it did not work. It was a huge massive failure. And so we have this great piece of technology, but there is a further stretch that this actually does. So when you think about all of the institutions, when you think about all of these projects,
I'm just going to put a box random and call them web2 projects. All of these web2 projects are used to really being able to have their privacy, their auditability, and their compliance. And so when I think about
What Trimble Masking actually is, I'm really seeing it as a huge bridge between what we built on Web2 and integrating Web3 into that sort of stuff. So there's a huge adoption play. Anyway, so I just wanted to touch on that.
really briefly. Sorry if I keep on talking a long time. I tend to talk a lot, especially towards the end of the day for me. Oh good, all good. I'd like to highlight a little bit on, sorry, I'd like to highlight the road map that you've got
guys to have coming up. So you guys, you know, talked a lot about the accomplishments that you guys have built in a very short amount of time. Can you explain a little bit about what you're excited on and working on Forrest Fendora in the next maybe few weeks, months as well as the next year?
I'll take this because you know I'll see if I can make this really really quick really really simple. I think the first big one is getting sushi up and launched. Tushy swap announced a week ago two weeks ago that they were going to be deploying a deck on us so watch us closely for that. We're super excited. I've worked with
So I'm very excited to see them coming on board. We also have things like EVM staking. Right now staking is done through our proprietary wallet, which anyone can get it's totally easy, but it's just one step more complicated, right? You know, we're using our UTXO tokens to do that.
And we want to simplify simplify because we think that that's a good path to adoption. So we have EDM staking coming. There's, there are a lot of grantees. We're focused really this year on a lot of adoption growth of the ecosystem. So some of the stuff that we know we're focused on, we can't really talk about yet.
because it is, it's still under embargo, it is still brand new. But there are a bunch of areas that we're looking at, which includes, for example, we started with our UTXO stuff and expanded into our EVM. Obviously the EVM universe is not the only universe out there for block
So we're also looking at some of the other ones. We're also looking at Wassim integration, which would open up the door for cosmos and other things like that. So you can just watch carefully and pay attention to our website and our Discord and Telegram channels and you'll see a bunch of these things coming in the next little while.
Yeah, and before we wrap wrap things up, I'd like to just know I like to let the odd I'm sorry, I like to know if there's only one thing you like the archimedes to take away
or really remember from this Twitter space what that would be as well as where exactly they can find more information about you guys whether it's Telegram Discord or other channels.
So the telegram discord so head over to our website you know fendora.org and they're at the bottom of the website. I think if you go fendora.org/telegram or slash discord you'll go directly to the links so take a look at that and of course you can follow us on Twitter if you can find all of that as well.
I had to say one thing for people to take away. I care a lot about privacy. I care a lot about privacy. But I care about it not from the side of the corporate shelves. I care about it from the individuals. I care about it from you personally.
that you personally need to expect privacy from the products that you use. Because if we don't start expecting privacy, then we'll keep on having projects like Instagram, like TikTok, like all these other ones who are basically surveillance capital
that if we're not paying for the product, we are the product, which is not good, right? But once we start to expect privacy, then we'll start actually having private solutions. If users demand privacy, Fendora will deliver it. So go ahead and follow us. Reach
I think Daniel, did you pin something from people to retweet? I think you did, but I'm not sure. Yeah, we have our triple masking announcement actually pinned to the official Fendora Twitter account. So feel free to go ahead and repweet that because privacy
like Sam said, it's certainly a game changer in Web 3. We're leading that charge and we'd love for everyone to be a part of that. And then finally my last pitch is going to be if you're a builder, if you're a developer, if you are good at solidity, if you're going to be a water loop,
The tail end of June come meet with us come build on Fendora. We like to sponsor and we like to do hackathons all the time. So the next in person one is called Eater Waterloo, which is coming up here and about what is that six weeks. So fly out to Waterloo and hang out with us. And then of course you can watch for our virtual
hackathons that happen all the time. Because again, Open Platform, Open Source Project, we want to see as many developers as we can, taking to cool things that people like Charlie have built and build something even cooler or connecting it in new ways and interesting ways to other things. So that's what I'll leave everybody with.
Awesome, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you guys, Charlie, Samuel and Daniel for joining us again. It was extremely informative and as always this is only informational and educational purposes only, not financial advice and see you guys next time.