Chilling man, but yo B. It's good to see you man. How are you? I've seen you in a minute
The crew is here look at you guys all prompt today. I'm so proud
My god, it's amazing angel was good bread. What's going on, bro?
G down dude, it's been a crazy day today man. Same same same
What's good? What's new is a good kind of crazy? Oh
Yeah, just like you know busy is good, you know, but busy is crazy
Like I feel like I've been like my attention has been spread across like so many different aspects of web 3 today
That uh, yeah, I'm just starting to get a little bit of a I mean
I call it pudding brain after like I've been looking at code for like way too long and all of a sudden
It's just like I'm sitting at my computer drooling
Well, let's turn out to drool ruto welcome back boy take your rightful place what's good
Yo, what's going on everyone
GM or GN wherever you are in the world. Happy Tuesday everyone. Yeah, I'm excited man. I appreciate you having me up here always bro
Always always always man. We miss you the last couple of weeks, dude. You've been a busy busy busy be
It's it's never my it's never my goal to be like mega busy, but it's always nice when I am at least
It's you know, what do they say?
Idle hands is is the is the devil's works someone something my grandma used to tell me all the time
I hear you ma'am now, but it's good to have you back ma'am Colin. What's up, man Thor 5
Yo, yo, yo, how's it going everyone? How's your week going brother? It's going good. What's news with you?
There we go. Oh same old same old brother
We're a nose down to the grindstone as we're building out our decks right now for the Eclipse subnet. Whoo
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. We're getting ready to launch. We're getting ready to launch getting exciting. I like it, man
I like it. I like it. I like
Yeah, what's good, man? How are you?
Yeah, what's up, what's up? Good to see everyone again Thor meant to get back to you
Yeah, man excited to be here
No, I lost them too. Yeah
Yeah, I'm driving. Yeah, okay
It's like cutting in and out because I'm driving. But yeah, I'm glad to be here glad to see everyone again
Looking forward to contributing more to this space. Thanks for hosting this all the time, bro
Are you kidding me, man? I love you guys showing up. Y'all make me look good
You know actions here yo Kyler at POG, what's good Kyler how we doing? He's like not fair leaves cool
Fine. I didn't want to talk to you. Anyway, Kyler. What is
Action what's up? How are you? Is that what being hurt sounds like?
I'm good, man. I appreciate you that you appreciate us because I could very well be hosting another one of these spaces and competing with you
But guess what? I love you. So I want to be here and look at this
I don't know if that was a compliment of flex. Uh, I don't thank you. I guess
That's what we call a backhanded
I'm pretty good at those not gonna lie. I'm saying man
I'm saying Kyler. What's good, man?
When when he finally become such a thug
Came out the womb now ain't my G. Let's go. How's the week Tyler? Yeah
Good man, are we feeling it? We vibing we gotta be in LA this weekend
We're giving a talk to we had a keynote at seg 3 1 of 4
Keynotes for that week dude. We're talking to like the SV like we've got just a craziest device presidents from like
The PGA tour and ESPN NHL and Nike and all these big brands
So CIA really hooked us up with a good spot to share what we're doing. So pogs gonna be on the map for all those folks
Love that bro. That's awesome, man. That's good to hear. It's good to hear and yo guys
I need I need you. I need a big big favor right now. Okay, I need you guys to D everybody up here
I need you to DM taco. It's BSC and gaming
I don't know if it was my fault or the VA's but they left him off the freaking graphic and it's like I never felt worse
In my life then when I did five minutes before the space when I realized that so I need y'all to DM taco
Please it's at BSC and gaming if I never ever what I don't know why it's just the thing with me
I can't have somebody feel that way like cuz he's been a constant in this space the whole time
So never want anybody to feel like they got they got left out. So yeah done from to account
So he's got at least two DMS right now. I'm man Chris coffee. What's good, bro?
Yo GM GM, I know like 80% of the people up here, but I've never seen any of these people together and
So it's kind of funny seeing everybody from different stages of web 3 on this panel and I also joined
I was thinking that this has been going on for a while
I didn't realize I joined during like introduction phase
So I was gonna ask a question, but I feel like I can leave that later. It was a really random thing
I was like, oh, it's just a couple people chill and then I joined a bunch of more people started joining
So I just caught it a good timing my brother. That's how this conversation gets started
But I just got one more. Hello to one more. Hello. I just want to say what's up to bowling
I don't know if I did already bone. It's good to see you man. How are you?
What's going on? Good to be here again? I I was getting my ass beat by a flu
So I missed a couple but I'm happy to be here as always. It's great to see all of you
Amazing man. Well, it's good to be but it's good to have you back. I like this. It's like the OG crew right now
This is what I'm talking about. This is kind of where we got started. But Chris, please feel free to ask your question
That's always kind of how we get this thing started
It's specifically for Thor if I is that okay, of course
Hit me is is Thor if I related to the project with Loki that was uh, I
Don't know. I feel like it was like on a vax like a year ago or is that unrelated it had
Okay, I mean you're talking to Loki right now my friend
Well, dude, I okay I've been you know, I was involved like a long time ago like last
From the admission days from the note admission days. Hello, my friend. Hey
Hey, I just I saw the name and I was like that looks hella familiar and then Loki just immediately came to my mind
So cool. Yeah. Yeah, awesome, man
I still have some some NFTs on on a vax that have to do with your ecosystem
And now that a vax NFTs got like bigger this year. I was like, hey
I had an NFTs on a vax like before it was cool because it was like with the project
Originally that partnership with gods of Asgard. I know that didn't work out
Great because of some things on their end
But yeah, cool man, just just making sure and also this just seems like a really good conversation
So if you guys well for sure stay up in chat for a while. Oh, yeah. Hell. Yeah, Chris
I mean I'm more than anything brother if you've been away for a while highly recommend checking out what we've done over the last year
Here we're essentially a brand new project
But the same og NFTs and the same og notes that you had from our original days
Are the exact same emission products for an iron tired gaming blockchain brother?
So there's been a lot that's been happening highly recommended feel free to shoot us a DM though, bro
I'll jump on a call with you and we go over everything
Okay, man, I appreciate it. Wow people saying I have a Vax printer, but that was really just my Thor nodes
Let's go. Wait, did Loki shape-shift into Thor? Is this what happened here? Are we?
Are we experiencing the adventures on stage? Hey, man, I am the god of tricks
What can you say never know who I am never know where I'm gonna be
Boys I got some see I need to do some serious homework and y'all are gonna be my teachers today because I think what I found
Yesterday or who I met a project that I met yesterday is going to be something that changes this whole the whole face of this game
If it has anybody here heard of game in GG, that's the website GA I
Ruto then I I leave it to you because I sat in last night
It was the my UK guys who do who do a show it's called minted
It's 1 8 1 o'clock in the morning for me here in Los Angeles when I do that
but I guess host with them every time I can and they brought this guy on and the
statistics that he was just simply throwing out in terms of
How this thing is structured like the GPU usage and how essentially if everybody here is familiar like with render and brutal
like stop me at any point if you can do a better job at this bro, but
What they're offering is is you know how like render kind of pools all of like the GPU resources from let's say it was my
Computer I opt in it's kind of a deep in play, right?
So for those that are familiar they're gonna be on with me tomorrow
But I want to be best prepared for tomorrow, and I figured there's no better place than in the gaming space right now
Ruto, what do we know about gaming gg?
Well, just so we're talking we're talking about the same one. It's it's game in at game in IO, right? Just so we're
The Twitter handle. Yeah, I'll pin it at the top two for anyone who's
Yep at game in IO you got it cool. Yeah, so I mean for those who aren't familiar it is it's an incubated
platform by coin market cap
So they're they're launching their own token too. It's called GMR X
But basically if you just read the bio to its world's biggest source of decentralized computation powered by AI tech fueled by
300,000 plus gamers and counting so they're also they also have like a sub arm or a separate branch called gaming gladiator
So it's basically like eSports the gladiators of eSports
It's they're trying to gamify
What like the the the eSports community can can do so like they have
Right now they have three dota major like world champions
That are kind of on the their eSports team, which is pretty pretty significant
We all know that the eSports kind of ecosystem. I mean, it's it's multi billion dollar industry, right?
So, I mean this they've been around for some time now actually and it's interesting because it's only like recently that people are starting
to catch on but if I'm not mistaken, they've been around since like
2019 or yeah. Yeah, so a very very long time
But I love that people are just now getting attuned to it. So granted I'm not super deep
Into like the ecosystem or anything like that
But if there's anyone else here on the panel that has a bit more information than me
I just know I've known about them for for quite a while
But it is interesting that like I've only heard other people talking about them pretty much like the last year in this year
Jump in action. Go for it. I know you're gonna give me the GPU breakdown like please
Dude, it's a sneaky sneaky play and it's so smart essentially everybody that's looking at deep decentralized
You know infrastructure the whole deep in networks here that we're talking about
They are trying to get people to buy hardware
They're trying to get people to run things on Linux machines and like it's not easy
What these guys are doing is essentially hey you want to play games use our platform to launch them
And if you have our platform running on your machine, guess what? You're a node
It's it's it's genius. It's a great way of leveraging already existing players
You don't have to read the incentivize them that much and they're gonna be faithful because they're gonna look at it
Hey, I'm using this this machine. Anyway, I'm already running it. There's no, you know downside to running this thing
Gaming the Viking knows that I'm talking about karate combat down there
It's up only gaming and people are gonna join people are gonna you know, kind of go crazy and say free. I'm in
Go for bread. Oh, yeah, you know and it's something that we're seeing too. I think it was today or yesterday maybe
Animoca everyone's familiar with you know, animoca brands is partnering with a gas-free l2
Call it light link. I remember correctly
Signing dude light link is yeah, it's gas-free. So what they're promising is free l2 gaming on on chain
You know, and so I think that that's an interesting
Curious to see how they ultimately end up implementing it and what they're actually putting on chain, you know
And what transactions they're running on chain
Rewarding gamers for playing like, you know, like I'm like what this is talking about with like decentralized, you know
Essentially deep in type stuff to where it's like even you can be earning passively when you're not playing
And that's one of the biggest selling points to idle gaming for mobile devices
You know, it's those like Farmville type games and things like that where it's like
It's like I'm gonna play for 10 minutes because I'm like here in this uber
I'm gonna put my phone away for the rest of the day come back and it's like oh shit
I've got all this cool stuff
I can like harvest and I've got all these cool things I can do now and I leveled up and like all this stuff
And it's like it keeps people it like the essentially you could call like, you know
Essentially customer retention rate, you know is incredibly high for those types of games, you know
And so I think that if you can actually be rewarding people with like straight up, you know
even if it's not crypto if it's a native token that can then be exchanged for a
Starbucks gift card and their reward points, you know, whatever legal ultimately wants to do about it, you know
Having a tangible reward for a passive game would be absolutely game-changing
You're a freaking genius bread. That was a great analogy to explain it to people. It's idle gaming, but it gives you real rewards
While I agree with most of you of your points actually
I think you're also missing on the biggest point of gaming. It's having fun like
Whenever I turn on crypto spaces, especially when it comes to gaming. It's all about the pin
It's all about making money. Obviously, obviously like crypto is all about making money. But at the end of the day, it's like
the the best and biggest use case for crypto gaming is
Actually making and having fun, right? Like I see defy kingdoms for example here in the in the space
I don't think people in 2020 and 2021
If you if you can if you can even
Call it playing I think I
think people use defy kingdoms because of the interface because it actually made fun, right and
I think most of the defy games most of the crypto games right now are just lacking
Casual gamers, right? It's all about money. Obviously like encrypt in general is all about money
but especially when it comes to gaming it should
It should also bring some fun. It should also bring some excitement to the people and that's what
Yeah, that's my opinion. Well, it says speaking on that to be completely honest
You know, I've been around for a long time in these market signals. I think what we're seeing now is, you know, you know
I don't games I think you know, it definitely has an application. I think it's a limited application
You know to the amount of mobile users out there one of the large things
I think that you're bringing up though that makes a lot of sense to me is the natural evolution of our industry
You know, our industry is in a midst of evolution
I think we you know our generation zero first generation being play to earn season which were you know
Exactly as you say Tim very limited experiences very limited gameplay loops
Not much in the way of replay ability and essentially everyone was operating and playing these games for the earning aspect of it
I think we missed that side of it all the time here in web 3 where we always look at the financialization of these things
That's one of the tournaments
I think what we're seeing with a lot of these new gaming's come games coming down the line is a much heavier
Prioritization on you know gameplay loops having a really fun experience building communities that want to be continuously playing the game and then adding in
The web 3 at implementations after to me
It's it's a really obvious natural step and that natural step really comes down to player owned assets
I know I catch a lot of shit for people who have an issue with player owned assets and don't think that that is one
Of the biggest draws to web 2 users
But what I will say is the vast majority of especially free-to-play web 2 experiences right now
These players already intimately value their in-game player owned assets
The next evolution is being able to take those assets out of the ecosystem
Into their own wallet and actually give players real ownership outside of a single and closed ecosystem not to me is the future
Yeah, you know Colin gets me hype every time he talks
I don't know about you guys, but I'm just hype every time Colin talks. That's like incredible orbit. What's good?
Thanks for bringing me up. I
Agree with you know, whatever has been said here and by the way shout out to defight kingdoms down there and shout out to
Our buddy here meta vision and also stardogs. I see stardogs down there too. Hey guys
Hey, so I do agree with some of the points with most of the points that were said here
The first element is definitely having fun. I think the reason why a lot of the web 2 gamers have developed
Prejudiced opinion again against web 3 game is because a lot of the web 3 games pushed the play to earn
Aspect way too hard and if you think about it most of the time like, you know by statistics
we know that over 3 billion out of the 8 million people in the world identify as gamers and
Honestly, how many of them are playing games to make money? We know that now we have this entire
Generation of pro athletes who are e-gamers who are coming on
But that's still a very small fraction of population
Most of the times even as we were talking about ideal gaming right, you know
people just want to log in have a little bit of fun and
They have probably already had a shitty day at work
They have had a shitty day even in their personal lives and the games provide an escape from all of that
so most of the times people don't play to make money and
when you push that aspect too hard, we take away the fun from all of it and
I do completely agree with the fact that playing games should be fun first
Get people on board it and then it is cool to just let them know that hey, by the way
You can also all these tokens that you have you can cash it out
but that should not be the primary purpose and I
Also feel that because of that there are some games
Like on stellar there's this game which has like at least 200 300 daily active users and for a lot of people that might be
Like oh, that's not a lot. But these people spend like an hour every day, right?
So that's actually better than a lot of the blockchain games that we know and these guys give credits
Like you know, you spend hours and then you will get just like two or three credits
Which are probably not even worth like 10 cents, but people play those games because it's fun first. So I feel just
Focusing more on the fun aspect is important and then as Thor rightly mentioned
The aspect of asset ownership. I feel once we actually have good
Metaversus and with AAA gaming studios coming in I believe in the next five years or so
We can have these interoperable metaversus at play
Then the entire idea of play your own assets would become such a huge draw because now
You've worked so hard to create this unique avatar and how you have leveled it up and you have all of these
skins and weapons and whatnot in
One of the games and now you have this cool new version of another game coming up
But now you have to go and start from scratch
Wouldn't you love to just take that avatar from one game to another?
Love I love that you said that because one of the major things that we've been doing as we've been onboarding partner projects onto the Eclipse
Subnet is really working out chain wide ecosystem wide interoperability
Um, you know that's through a few of our different products that allow users to you know
Burn inflationary emissions get rewards and perks and other projects increase the discoverability for other partner projects
But on top of that, I think you know having core assets and a core framework without a lot of these different experiences can you know?
Allows, you know their own assets to be shared within different gaming experiences. That's really really important
Historically, I think our industry we spent all of our time in the web 3 gaming industry
Focusing on web 3 gamers and that's great. But I think it's also a strategical misstep
You know everybody in web 3 gaming is already aware of all the offerings that are happening
We need to be prioritizing and focusing on encouraging web 2 users to venture into a web 3 environment
That's not going to happen. Thanks to you know, previous cycles and negative reputations around our industry as a whole
It's a very subtle approach and a very subtle attempt that we have to do to really get these people back into it
These gaming experiences can be all done on chain. They can be given out assets on chain, whatever
However, all of that should be done within that gaming enclosed ecosystem
So it's a very similar experience to web 2 users and it's only after those web 2 users are extremely
You know used to these gaming experiences like these games and want to explore more that they can discover the on-chain aspects of web 3
At the end of the day, you know
We have negative web 2 gamers have negative
Connotations towards web 3 gaming just because of the names that we have for our items
Um, you know, look at csgo skins look at minecraft skins roblox skins GTA 5 skids, right?
All of these assets are incredibly valuable to web 2 gamers. The only difference is they don't call them nfts
They don't think about them like nfts
So it's just an educational standpoint here where we edge them into the web 3 gaming by demonstrating the value of the replayability
And gameplay elements of web 3 and then hook them in with the actual player-owned assets in the advancements that we can
That we can now do thanks to the you know framework of web 3 technology
Sure, you can go first ruto
No, I was just gonna say I mean, it's it's pretty obvious that
the the the biggest reason why a lot of traditional web 2 gamers hate this idea of like web 3 is a they
They don't really want to or care to understand what the tech side of things is actually doing on the back end
The same way most of us driving a car don't give a shit about the engine for example
But I mean I i've been playing pow world and I know this has been like a huge talking point to many people
Um in the industry for quite some time
I mean you look at a game with devs who literally didn't even know how to use unity prior to building it
They started out with initially ten thousand dollars in funding later on getting around seven million, but they built a game
That literally millions of people have been playing I think the highest concurring active users or daily active users was around like 1.7
million almost 2 million people
Um per day, which is pretty insane to me
but if you look at why web 3 game web 3 games in general have been kind of missing the mark when it comes to
You know that that major flip in daily active users that most web 2 games have
It's it mainly is because just like um orb 86 they mentioned
This huge emphasis on play to earn when the reality is if you just make a fucking good game
Pardon my french then anybody's going to be willing to play it even if they hate on it
Um, they'd be willing to play it if everyone's talking about how fun it is because gamers at their core
We just like to have fun. That's literally it i'm playing pow world
I'm not earning a single dollar from this game
But it it's just an amazing game
And as soon as we get more games like that in the web 3 ecosystem
That isn't hammering so much into people's brains the tech and you know, um digital ownership and that's important
But you'd be better off just trojan horsing people into a really fun game and then later down
Like hey, by the way, you you actually own these assets, man. Um, i'm glad you saw the game, but yeah
Exactly. I mean from a project and protocol wide perspective
We really look at it as a direct line in the first step of the funnel here
Which is funneling web 2 users into a quote unquote web 3 game
But hiding the vast majority of that sausage behind the curtain
We only introduce things like player-owned assets after people have already, you know, understand the ecosystem understand the game experience
And then want to move further within that game experience
That's how we ease a lot of these web 2 users that have really negative connotations towards web 3, uh environments here without going
Hey, look at our tech. Look at the blockchain. Look what you could do with your player-owned assets
we're going to hook you in with that game and then we're going to reel you in with all the
Natural evolutions that you can now do with the in-game assets
Yeah, I mean, I think every one of you has touched on it and I I think one of the biggest struggles is that
a lot of web 3 games just
Focus on a very narrow scope
Uh, you know, everybody talks about like pushing the bounds of blockchain technology and that's fantastic. We should keep doing that
But then you know you look at it, you know, and i'm not going to name names
But uh, you know you look at game x and it's just very very small
It's a very small basic game and they don't have ambitions to take it farther
And that's where it like launching with that. That's fantastic. But then keep building keep adding more to it
You know, you know, did you build a passive game great add an active experience on top of it, you know
Keep building that out and that's where I think a lot of web 3 projects
And this may be controversial and i'm going to say up front thorify
It sounds like y'all are doing the opposite of this
So I appreciate that but I think a lot of web 3 projects use interoperability as a buzzword and as an escape and an excuse
To not keep building their own stuff
Well, we built, you know this small farming game
And we're not going to build anything else because we're going to become interoperable with all these other games
And then you know, you'll have all this stuff to do
Build it, you know become interoperable with other games. Also. Yeah, absolutely
But why stop building, you know, if you've put
Your time your money your life into building this project keep building don't say well, you know
This little mini game that's all we were doing. Why keep pushing?
I just I need to get in here and then i'm gonna shut the hell up
I promise but I I think you hit the nail on the absolute head here. Um when we're talking interoperability
I don't think the responsibility of interoperability falls on individual games and it removes scope from the development of these games and these roadmaps
I think really the vast majority of the onus of interoperability falls on
Ecosystems in chains that these games are operating on it's our responsibility to build out the infrastructure and the tools to allow games to have
Easy and easy levels of interoperability between different gameplay experiences without taking energy
Development resources whatever away from the core teams from expanding their visions. So to me, it's it's just the responsibilities
I think the responsibility falls on you know chains like eclipse and chains like other gaming chains out there
To be able to provide these tools in the framework to give these games a tremendous amount of value
Um, but not focused just on interoperability. I totally agree
It's a buzzword same thing with nft. Same thing with play to earn same thing with the you know, financialization, etc
I think these are all buzzwords
But you know, they're built out of a real utility and a real value towards our chain
It's just how we've strategically positioned them is the key thing that we need to be able to differentiate
answer this because um, I just
Questioned it especially for um all the builders right here. Um
When it comes to building especially when it comes to marketing your game
I personally think it's a
problem most crypto games
I don't want to I don't want to offend anyone, but when I look for example at you tor tor phi
When I look from the crypto pov, I look at tor phi and I see d phi
because of phi at the end of the name and
It looks to me like okay. I might make some money, but I won't have fun
Get from the name itself, right? Like I don't I don't want to bro
You're no, no, no, don't worry. There's no offense taken at all. You're dead, right?
I mean when we originally launched we were far more of a deep eye, you know, og d phi project
Um, you know with eclipse and with our gaming something that we're bringing out. This is a completely simple brand
Um, we're still in our testnet phases
We're bringing our main net here within the next couple months and we're going to be making a major marketing push on that new brand identity
But it's important for us to make sure our og community is taken care of and that's the reason we still operate or under the thor phi
Name right now and that's why our thor phi assets are still going to hold
All of the emission source within the eclipse blockchain as a whole um
We've taken the best aspects of you know
Nodes the best aspects of what our project was historically um, and then created a brand new value proposition
That's you know, extremely heavily focused on, you know ecosystem value in rising tides lifting all of our gaming chips
yeah, definitely like what I actually wanted to mention here is
If crypto projects would actually care like i'm not talking about you
I I definitely think you're you're making a point and
everything around them, but if crypto projects actually would care about
Making fun for people instead of like gaming projects making fun. Um
Making making money or or defy or whatever. Whatever you want to call it. Um,
Let's let's take shrapnel for example on avax
Um, I personally like i'm not that much into crypto gaming, but i've seen
Screenshots i've seen game plays of that game. It looks like uh, call of duty
And it looks super interesting for me because you know, I grew up with call of duty and i'm like, bro
I actually want to try it out. Um, I don't I don't even care about making money with this game
If I make money with this game, it's a pro for me. Like
I personally don't even care. Um
If it if it actually makes fun
And that's what most crypto gaming projects actually lack in my opinion right now
Alright, yo, so I think there's a couple things here. I agree with everything that's being said, you know
I think that a lot of it comes down to it's less of a trojan horse kind of mentality because I feel like that implies
Some sort of like ha we got you kind of like vibe, you know, and it's more so like
Most people right not all but most people when they get a new game
They don't go. Oh, I just picked up this sick mmorpg
They go. Yo, I just got a dope game
Or yo, I just got this sick like fps is running at 120 frames per second
You know, like nobody nobody cares, you know, is it fun or not? Is it like what?
Excuse me. All right. Sorry. Sorry. Maybe your monitor is nicer than mine, I guess but like
At the end of the day, they don't care most people don't care
Right only all of us gaming web 3 nerds in here are really like oh, no way he used what engine
Oh, whoa. Do you see the physics in that one? You know, like that?
It's a very that's a slim majority of actual gamers, you know
You know, it's that balance that rides across all of web 3 between education and hiding the wires
You know and I think with gaming it's going to be very important to just hide the wires
because it already has a negative connotation alongside of it because of
Influencers will call them, you know and gain in the gaming realm. You can just call them action
Yeah, we'll just call them actions
You know, there's a bunch of really just like yeah shilly actions out there that uh,
You know have kind of given left every all the gamers like it's left a bad taste in their mouth in regards to nfts
Anything on chain, you know, like sell your assets and become a millionaire like an ape, you know, like
They don't want that they just want to have fun. They want to play their game
You know, and so I think that we should hide the wires with gaming a hundred percent of the time
Different how's that different than web 2? I mean right now
Nobody's telling us like hey, this is how we're building our games. That doesn't happen to web 2
Why should we have to do it in web 3?
It is web 2 nobody cares though, you know
Like I mean like you can already you know
And it leads me to my next point as far as like the interoperability, right?
That's in different layers
Like I think that will make huge strides as far as like ccip and cross chain interoperability
But you suddenly the gaming studios to play nice with each other in order for assets to travel across games
You know and to be recognized as assets in those games
That's why I think it's also important
I mean that that's why I think it's important for you know
These interoperability actions to be taken from a chain-wide perspective, right?
Not a you know, I think it's really it's an it's an inherent conflict of interest when you have a chain
That's trying to introduce a game itself, um into its own chain
Um, you know, it always injects some form of bias, um to me at least from us
We look very much from an infrastructural standpoint here
um, it makes far more sense for us to focus on the infrastructure and you know create a
Open ecosystem here for everyone to be able to build on that, you know limits a lot of the
Developers that are feeling like they're in either in direct or direct competition with each other
We've removed a lot of that just by essentially being that neutral third party offering the sandbox. Um
To me, um, I think that is the absolute key. Um
Yeah, I just think that like I mean I I don't disagree with you at all, you know
But it's like there's reasons why like like with anything inside the epic, you know games ecosystem right now
You can they're leaning heavy into being able to have assets carry across games
Because it's the same development studio building the same games and it's like no lift for the dev team realistically to just be like
Yeah, I've just poured it, you know
But like if I wanted to play as my new peter griffin character in fortnite
drag it into my ea sports pga game and play 18 with them like
Dev work being done and recognizing those assets and the shading and all of those things and the animations like all need to be done
In order just to recognize it as an whether I own it or not doesn't matter if I can't
You know, i'm not going to have fun with it. And so it's worthless to me
I think that primarily plays
Also working on a set of common protocols as we call it, right?
Like, you know, we have all the annotations and metadata now being added to the unity objects as well as unreal engine 5 objects because
Of course besides the games coming from different studios
We also have these different gaming engines and currently they are not necessarily compatible with each other. But even the web 2
Even the web 2 industry is looking at interoperability
So with web 3 you do get the asset ownership interoperability
Hopefully, you know people start seeing value in it. But more importantly
We have a lot to learn from web 2 like especially, you know, somebody was mentioning call of duty and stuff
In web 3, unfortunately, we have had games with so many shitty graphics. Imagine if you really I know
A bc breaker bc bread, you know
You were talking about how it's just a niche population that talks about things like hey, look, you know
I got this rtx gpu and look at this ray tracing and look at all of these graphics and it looks so fucking good, right?
We have a very small population do that
But that's also the population that's probably spending like 36 hours playing a game without taking a shower and you know
On the table. So yes, it's a niche population. But if you want to impress that population
You can't do that with the kind of games we have today
Unfortunately, that is the truth like, you know
I have been looking at the yuga trailers for a while and the first trailer we know how the web web 2 gamers
Didn't like it and we are still talking about I I don't know when other world is going to come out
I have no idea. I just keep watching those trailers, but we have to have
Something that's fun. That's really attractive that gets people in and there are two big hurdles
The first thing I feel is we don't learn enough from web 2
like there are so many games that use the freemium model to onboard people in and
99% of our web 3 games need people to have a wallet need to have some funds just to get in
And play the game. I mean, you know, that's that's horrible onboarding
So that's the second problem that it's not just horrible onboarding because people have to kind of get some token or
Get something to get in but just the entire process today of
creating a wallet and even
Web 3 and crypto and defy and then most of these game tokens are not even available on a centralized exchange and
And you know, you need to get on a centralized exchange
You probably have to wait for seven days with a coin be someone verifies you I mean that onboarding process in itself is such a tedious
So one of the things that I am seeing as a trend these days is
A few web 3 games who have started to just you know
Keep the game open for anyone who wants to come and have fun
And if they're interested beyond that then you educate them bring them into the fold slowly
But you know introduce them to an environment that they're already familiar with so again
Coming back to the same point they can get in have fun
And if they really like it and now they want to start spending money like we spend with epic games, for example
Now you can tell them that hey for the money that you're spending you're actually getting a lot more value
Than what you would get if you're spending it well
I wouldn't say that money spent on epic game isn't necessarily valuable because
All of those pro gamers will hate me who make much more money than I do
But well you guys get the point. I rest my case. Yeah, um, I I you know
I I think you hit the nail on the head. Um, and what I can say here at least is a trend
I've been noticing as we've been onboarding and having you know more deeper
Conversations with new web game 3 games, you know stuff that hasn't even had a twitter out yet and stuff a little like that
A lot of these people here are really prioritizing and focusing on the introductory phase
They want their games listed on epic games and they want the user login to be the standard web 2
username email type login
That is going to be one of the main ways that we get web 2 users in
It's hiding the vast majority of this web 3
Behind the curtain until as you said they're ready and they're and they want to learn more about the experience
So I just wanted to say the the you know, exactly what you're saying here in terms of you know, ease of onboarding
Um, you know is already definitely being taken to heart from new web 3 gaming developers
Hey, can I add to that? Uh, email stuff already?
Okay, uh, yeah, so basically, uh
Uh, there's a new technology called like zk wallets. So zk wallets automatically use your um, use your
Gmail apple id even microsoft business account to automatically sync your crypto wallet or they will automatically create your crypto wallet
And you will have no idea of like what um, what addresses
This is our um, my company we already integrated this directly into our dex on imx and we see like we see like
strong user support even in our test net
Uh where we saw like at least like 10 000 people just joined because they didn't even have to create a crypto wallet
They just they just sign in with their email. So it's like really really simple
Well, you know to bring it back to like about it ultimately at the end of the day, it has to be fun, right?
Yeah, like that niche audience loves, you know to have like real-time
Ray tracing and have like all these like cool new tax on expensive equipment
Like to this day still the you know, the most successful video game in history is tetris
You know, and it's like how long has that been around on the graphics?
You know have all right, so they've evolved slightly right on some of like the newer consoles. You can get cool new versions of
Tetris, you know, but like people aren't buying it to look at the shading on the blocks
They're buying it to play tetris, you know, and it they actually
Someone beat tetris finally
We did just have somebody finally actually beat tetris for the first time like in the past like a month
I think it was like recently month or two, you know
So I mean and that game's been along or around for how long like what 50 years 40 years something like that now like
It doesn't have to be this crazy AAA title that has all this interoperability and all of these things, you know
Earn cool assets for other games in the ecosystem by getting a high score on tetris and the high score lives forever
Like it wouldn't an arcade on chain. That's value right there
I think that we definitely need to think about more so the game and like
That just how fun the game is more so than
All the different various ways that you can do different crazy web 3 things with the game
Bc bread, by the way, I love how you're the co-host, but you still put your hand up and i'm like, wow
You know that that's one of the most polite posts i've seen
And that being said I saw your hand go up right after I unmuted. Sorry about that
Um, I just wanted to and bc breadina completely agree with you. I think we all here are echoing the same thing that fun is
Fundamental to games right people come in to have fun
And if we lose sight of fun, then the game I mean, you know
Our our very common phrase all work and no play
Really just turns around and it becomes all work and all work
Even when we are playing the games because you know, you're still working in the game trying to earn bucks
But so yes, so, you know, the fun aspect is definitely fundamental and I wanted to just talk about how I like the fact that c
Impley mentioned the zk water thing that we were talking about. They're one of the
ledgers to actually do it natively so
I have seen great things come out of c and I know they're ceo person. That's not the reason i'm shilling it
I'm not even building on c right now
And but you know huge respect to all the ecosystems that are doing the right things out there
My time like where I am at right now
So if you guys don't mind, I just wanted to quickly also drop a couple of things
Yeah, and it's it's not a shell for my project or anything
But arbitrum, I know is coming up with a gaming specific grant
so people should keep an eye out on that and I also know that um
If i'm pretty sure a lot of people know about suey
But suey is also pope is built for mobile games
so I mean literally we are at a phase where one of the top 20 30 chains is just
So that's like that's how big the web3 gaming aspect is
And uh, I think you know, we are in the right place at the right time. We just need to crack the code or maybe
Yeah, you know, we just need to crack the code and how do we get people in without intimidating them and uh, and then
Focus more on the game aspect lesser on the web3 aspect
And I think we'll be getting somewhere. So, you know again, thank you guys for getting me up here. It was so much fun
I'll drop down to the audience keep listening till I
I think i'll drop a sleep-in sometime, but you know, thank you guys for having me up here
We appreciate you or be seriously a lot of uh, knowledge you drop there also immutable
Um, they just launched their uh zk mainnet mainnet early access, um live today. So
Uh, yeah, the web3 game ecosystem continues to flourish
Uh, we've all been mentioning it since like 2020 2021, but it's beautiful
To see all these these things we've been waiting on for absolutely years at this point going live this year
It's just an amazing feeling to like have conviction on something for such a long time and everyone talks down and says
That's never going to happen
This isn't going to really scale and we're literally seeing it and it's only going to get faster and better
Better operators better founders more more funding. It's it's going to be crazy, man
I'm glad a lot of you have been in this ecosystem for a really long time too probably even before I was in like 2020
So yeah, it's just incredible chris. Let's pass over to you. Thanks so much for your patience, man
Yeah, so many things were said I want to respond to all of them
But i'll just respond to a few super bullish on immutable been there since the beginning astro bros was like basically the launchpad
It was kind of debate between the astro bros and like that bird with the egg that rubbed later
Um, but yeah, that was that was good times. I did a lot of trading on immutable
I actually found like a month ago that I had like almost a full ethan immutable after not using it for a year
So that was nice. It's kind of like finding like 20 under the couch but multiplied by a lot
Um tetris, you know, I heard that earlier really good movie on apple. You should go watch it
It's about the origin and ip of tetris. Uh, bread was talking about tetris earlier. I highly recommend it
Originally orbis mentioned the freemium model. I just wanted to mention something that I think is interesting
I'm sure people up here are familiar, but uh pirate nation, uh, they did a very interesting, uh freemium
Where basically anybody could play the game for free?
Um, so it's kind of going open opposed to how it was exclusively for just holders
Um, but you have to get to like a certain level in order to trade your assets
So like you have to actually like put time and effort into the game
To like get to that level to be able to trade whereas if you had
If you already were holding an ft you're always able to trade at any any point in time
I think you could even sell that ability to trade if i'm not mistaken
Uh, and then of course there's like other benefits for the nft holders like ip rights
So they kind of did like the I say pudgy penguins just because it's the biggest one right now
But they kind of like the ip selling point of like if this game takes off people are gonna like the original ip and art
So like you could do a lot of things with that and they offered of course like in-game bonuses
but it's a very interesting model with web3 gaming because like
You don't want to reward people like too much to where nobody else like has fun playing the game
Because like these people that own the genesis nft are just dominating you but at the same time like you wanna
You want to give value to the nft, you know, if it's a if it's a free to play open play game
If somebody's going to buy your nft whether it's ten dollars or ten thousand dollars you want them to have some sort of value
Uh, so I think like figuring out that like freemium model
Uh is is going to be super interesting for web3 gaming i'm excited to see it and yeah again
The pirate nation example is just one I personally was a part of I have
Uh, I have a pirate and i've I've minted it so i've had this whole time and uh, yeah, and then what king
Kng was saying, uh, I think definitely the future is going to be I I did the
The one wallet sign up with uh midnight society, uh, which is like dr
Disrespect the project he worked with those really seamless. Uh, I also work for a bitcoin frontier fund
We invest in a company called force prime
They made like the one line of code to be able to log in
Uh and create a wallet just by like sending it on bitcoin on bitcoin. I thought that was kind of cool
So, yeah, hold on. Sorry. Did you say you work for the bitcoin frontier fund? Yeah, is that what you said?
Yeah, yeah, you want to know you want to know something without the oxy
Me and kevin are classmates
That's awesome man had no idea what the heck you're fully docs now chris is going to get all the pictures the social security numbers
Kevin's the lucky one on the team, bro. I'm sitting here grinding. I see
Just to show you that is to prove that me and kevin both goes to elite schools
Because we out here building shit
Yeah, let's go. That's awesome
Yeah, kevin's the one on the team that we send everywhere
So while we're out here grinding kevin's in all the coolest places at all the coolest conferences taking pictures eating mills
Drinking coffee and i'm and we're out here grinding. So you can tell them I said that
We all need a cheaper vibes, man. We all need a cheaper. Yes
I love that idea chris. We need to talk bro. I don't know where you've been my whole life
But like we need to seriously talk. I don't know how I am heavy
Into this fax ecosystem my voice, so we definitely need to sit down and talk
And there's a name for uh for that kind of it's called the uh, the pog
Kyler lifestyle when you hobnob just in hollywood and just hang out chill meet with superstars skateboarders and shit
Yeah, that's what that's called. But sorry continue the convo. Oh rudo
So the bighorn frontier fund fun fact used to be called stacks
I don't want to say the wrong word, but it was basically like stacks ventures or along along those lines
But quickly kind of like broadened out a little bit
But you know, we've done a lot of investing in the stacks ecosystem
Uh and still do a lot of investing in the stacks ecosystem and show a lot of support there
Oh, hell, yeah. Oh, I know. I am well aware. My boy. We definitely need to have a sit down. That's awesome
No, man. That's why I love these spaces, man
Because you never really know like what's what but rudo I wanted to just bring this stat to your attention
Shout out metamona pow world two million sales in the first 24 hours of its release
For people with no game development experience and 10k in their wallet
How do we disrupt how do we achieve mainstream adoption?
The answer remains the same choose an already existing genre create the best version of that game
Use a new business model and when people are captivated by your ip they'll share it virally
You don't got to reinvent the wheel. This is how paradigm shifts have always happened. Shout out metamona
I mean that sums it up boy. Well, dude, it was it was honestly and granted you have to remember pow worlds this whole
You know lightning strike, um, everything kind of worked out
Perfectly for them if you think about
How controversial it was with like oh, it's pokemon with guns
Like that was basically like their their marketing stint with that
so obviously there's controversy that sparked from that and then that got a lot of momentum and then also people kind of forget that
The biggest target audience for gamers is like my generation, right? It's like millennials, for example
So if you build out some games that are a little bit nostalgic to them with like a twist
Then you'll have a ton a whole generation of people who will kind of rally uh behind it, you know, like I just got done
Beating a boss on here and I I just upgraded my my flying mount and i'm thinking like oh man
This is literally the pokemon game that I wish
I was always able to play now that i'm an adult. It's like whoa pokemon with guns
Like of course i'm gonna love that so you have to also remember
The guy the one of the four devs that they brought onto the team
Was a kid who I think if i'm not mistaken was like 16 years old
And they met him at the convenience store that they frequently visited
Um, and they just asked him like hey, do you do you know how to like do you like games?
He's like yeah, they're like, do you know how to code any any games in unity?
He's like no, but I think I could figure it out and they're like, okay, you're hired
Like so just it's really crazy and people keep saying oh well the pal worlds could do it
A wet three game can do it too. And it's like yes, it's probable
but also pretty unlikely just given the fact that it is kind of like the
one in a million games that that ended up just popping off from like a
but these are the games that we all rally behind because it's kind of like the underdog story of like
Taking on the triple a studios and and pissing them off and outperforming them
So do I think it's possible that wet three game comes around and and can accomplish something similar to this?
I think so. But do I think it's going to be
You know, it could be this year. It could be next year
We're all just waiting on the sidelines waiting for that one big moment to kind of happen. We all can celebrate together. That's for sure
Yeah, no, I just wanted to to second especially that last part of what rudo was saying like people forget
The you know something like 90 percent of of games never reach anything, you know comparable to mass adoption
You know 80 something percent of startups just period
uh, you know fail within the first year like
You you know saying i'm going to start a business and then that business going well are not you are not the same thing
It's about people coming out here and trying and you know making mistakes learning from them doing something better the next time
You know can just continuing to push on
Uh, but you know, especially like when we look at the you know, the crypto sphere
And even crypto gaming more specifically like the the fail rate of crypto games is not
Really that far off from the like and i'm
Fail rates the wrong word. Sorry, but the not mass adoption rate of crypto games is really
You know kind of in line with the not mass adoption rate of games just period in general across the board
Uh, and so, you know, it will you know, somebody will hit that that
you know lotto and break out and that will draw attention to other games that have tie-ins to it just like
Uh, you know just like we see in every industry
And so it's just a matter of people continuing to put it on the line and and you know invest their time and their heart
And their soul into it and keep pushing through
Do you want to know what my?
And this is probably a hot take because there's a lot of people in the web3 gaming space
The thing that's holding web3 games from from being able to scale or iterate
Is the fact that it is so heavily financially based like um, like there's a lot of
Um financial incentive with it. So like if there's a web2 a gaming studio
They want to launch a game
Let's say they put a million dollars into it and granted that's like a very tiny tiny bit of money
But let's say they did that they launched a game
They got you know, it was basically a failure then they can scrap the project and then start over on something new
Whereas with web3 games since it is so heavily
Um, you know, uh financially backed and there's a lot of people who put a lot of money into it
Then it's much more difficult for them to be like, okay
Well, let's just scrap this and then go back to the to the drawing board in my opinion
It's the it's what's holding back a ton of teams right now
Who have probably built a blockchain based game in like let's say 2021 and they're basically stuck
Trying to iterate on that same game in perpetuity
Mainly because either for legal reasons there's they launched a token or for whatever, right?
There's a ton of community members who put a lot of money into it
So if they scrapped it then they basically lose all social proof
And and the next game they come to launch is probably not going to do well
Like that's probably my biggest gripe with web3 games is that if a team launches something it fails
They literally can't close it down or shut the doors because then it's a rug pull and then now your name is is marred
forever because you like failed in
Like when we did our decks right
Um, my georgia of our competitors did a token first use that money to um
Build the decks and then and people think we were crazy where like we used our savings
To like a bootstrap a team together and I can tell you how much
More i'm enjoying the position I am in
Compared to every other decks, uh owner that I know on brc20 on sui
Because these guys are not having the tlv that they want to support that token prize
And they're like they're one step away from like a lawsuit
And where i'm just here in chillin. I did my testnet
If I if if we make money, we might we might not even have to do a token
Like that's that's that's the nice position you are in like when you do product first
And I think I think that's the problem a lot of uh, we need to come out of that mindset
Uh in like crypto when it comes on the product side
It's like, okay guys, let's build a product. See if there's a product market fit
And then we can apply tokenomics to it not let's build tokenomics then we can build a product
I said this on I said this on a gaming space and there was like
Some pretty pretty much all the top gaming projects on there and I got absolutely
attacked for saying this and I said this and I quote I said if you are a web 3 game
And you've already minted out like a pfp collection
You also are about to launch a token, but you don't have any gameplay or even like something in in test
That users can actually play you're a defy project. You're you're not a game
You're not a web 3 game and the issue that we're seeing right now
And because web 3 gaming is such is like a meadow right now
You're going to see far more games this year or quote unquote games launch
Raise a ton of money from vcs to launch a token
Because vcs only care about the token at the end of the day because they get in on pre-sell prices and then they're going to get
Funded to all hell tens of millions of dollars
And then you're going to have to wait a year or two to a either see gameplay or even play anything at all
And I think that's a huge extraction that we see in web 3 right now
And i'm incredibly bearish on that people who launch a token launch nfts fully mint out
rake in tens of millions of dollars from vcs and traditional consumers
And then they have to wait to either see gameplay or not play anything at all and you just mentioned it to king 3000 like
Find product market fit and then you build up a core base of loyal users and fans
And then you can you can start doing whatever you want after that
So you're not a big fan of shrapnel or wagney, huh? That's a bummer
Dude, no, I listen i'm a huge fan
Of shrapnel in the team mainly because i've known them
Probably late 2022 or early 2023
So i've known them for quite some time and I just I generally believe in their backgrounds and stuff like that
But yeah, I I think even they were kind of you know, they mentioned it a little bit to me too
Like well take it easy, rudo
I know why they do it like it's not a nice lifestyle like action knows. I don't take a salary
Um, he knows I work a nine to five
Like and then go home and work eight hours in a different time zone, you know
And like I position and we have to position our team
In time zones where we don't have to work to be able to survive, you know, so it's like not
Easy as people think it is
But it's honestly it it's so much less stressful. I think I only had to have a call with my lawyers one time
But it's it's very hard to do and it requires like it requires like a very tight budget
Um the amount of money we save between all four of us
We we had we basically say okay
This is going to be our runway for six months where we better find product market fit in four months and then
We can and hopefully buy month five for cash flow positive or at least
You know like the and you got to push people to like it's not
It's not something easy or you could just do a token raise
Raise like 30 million dollars have a runway for four years and don't have to worry about anything
Like I don't know. It's it really depends on the type of person you are
Getting down to it and how fast you want to move
Like i'm pretty sure I can build out my entire core infrastructure in six months if I did a token sale first
So i'll attest to what you're saying king and i'll let everybody know that you're a jerk that doesn't want to give influencers any money
I want to say influencers. I just
Yo, um, I hate cutting this short what an amazing conversation
I think this is hands down the best gaming space that we've had to date. We're like fine. Why right now
We're just getting a little bit better with age. This was incredible
Um, I know rudo had a bounce, but I got a jump also, but this was fantastic like really really good
Yeah, that's this whole raising hand stuff. Y'all are grown men and women. Thank you. Y'all are grown men and women
Yo bread, I appreciate it
He's just trying to prove how childish we really are deep down yeah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah chris. We got a chat canji. I appreciate you coming
Yo orbis 86 star of the show you get mvp for today. That's a fact not even a question
Just for offering what you did in the dms and and who you can bring through, please
I'm all about collaboration anybody that you guys feel that would add value to these conversations. Please bring them in here
And yeah, colin take a breath. Don't forget to breathe. Love you guys. All right. Peace
And then i'm just a fast talker. I love you all have a great week judge. Appreciate you guys