Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
10N giveaway - Data Economy and AI w.MetaMe
Recorded: Oct. 19, 2023 Duration: 1:04:48Space Recording
Full Transcription
Hello, hello, everybody.
Welcome to another Chill and Chill space.
Today we're going to talk about data economy and AI
and a lot of other interesting things.
So before we get started, first of all, guys,
don't forget we have a giveaway today.
So go like, retweet the pinned post,
tag your friends, all that stuff.
And to introduce,
we're going to introduce our guest today.
Today we have Mr. Delia Attanda with us.
Can you hear me well?
Yeah, I can hear you great.
Great.
How have you been?
How is everything?
I'm good.
I'm good.
I'm good.
You know, keeping busy as always.
Yeah, but very well.
Perfect.
I'm glad to have you on the space.
This took a while to...
Yeah.
I wanted to get, like,
a couple people from similar industries,
but I guess...
Before we get started,
I wanted to ask if you're from your personal account now.
Is there any, like, project account
that we can pin up here for people to see and, like, explore?
Yeah, absolutely.
So there's MetaNights,
which is M-E-T-A-K-N-Y-T-S.
So at MetaNights, I think it's at MetaNights.
And then I think there's at MetaMeHQ.
But I think MetaNights is perhaps the more sort of...
where there's most engaging content and stuff.
It's really around the story
of what we're talking about today.
And I wonder if I can switch accounts.
No, I don't think I can.
But, yeah, if you can...
I can...
If you could pin those,
I think I can...
What I can do, I'll drop those to you.
I'll drop a link to you on Telegram as well.
No, feel free to just comment.
I found a MetaMe account.
I see it's pretty, like, inactive currently.
But the MetaNights, I'm not sure I can find.
So I'll open this one if you can just send it to me.
Yeah, sure.
Also, while you're doing that,
for everyone who's listening,
we're going to have an NDC space tomorrow as well
from the NDC account, not here.
Because it's already the second week of the NDC working.
So we're going to see what those guys have been doing.
Have they been lazy?
Have they been productive?
Are they running the near government properly?
And for this second space,
we didn't do it last time,
but I'll try to make sure
that we have, like, a little AMA session.
So if someone...
There's no giveaways, of course, for those spaces.
Those are just, like,
not as much promotional,
but more for guarantee.
But we'll try to give some people a chance
to maybe go ask some hard questions
for those Congress members on the spot.
Okay, I see we have MetaNights with us.
Okay, perfect.
So let's just do a quick mic check
from MetaNights at Calendale.
Everything working good for you?
Yeah, I think so.
Yes, I changed over to MetaNights, yeah.
Okay, perfect.
So, yeah, without further ado,
let's jump into that.
Before we talk about, you know,
any specific project or anything like that,
I would just love for you to
introduce yourself to our community,
maybe talk...
Is it me,
or are you coming in and out a bit?
You're fluctuating in and out.
Is it just me?
Can you hear me better now?
Yeah, that's fine.
That's fine.
But, yeah, I can go ahead.
Can you hear me okay?
Is everything okay on my audio?
Yeah, I can hear you very clearly.
Cool.
All right.
So, yeah, so I'm Dele Atanda.
I'm founder and CEO of two companies.
One is MetaMe,
which is really being focused on delivering identity
and personal data management solutions
for a long while.
I've been doing a lot of R&D in the space,
really looking at the cross-section of identity
and in the digital space
and really working specifically around identity,
AI data in a Web3 context
or using Web3 tools to protect them.
And then the other project I run is MetaNight,
which is a creative project.
It's a crypto media project,
which was really born to really create a story
to talk about this space of AI data,
Web3 decentralization technology and power
and why it's important
and why it's really important
to have a handle on identity
and information ownership and management
in this quantum AI digital age.
So it's a science fiction cyberpunk saga
that has this ambition of transforming ownership
through storytelling and play.
So we really use MetaNight to talk about the issues
around identity, data sovereignty,
AI ownership and AI control
in the context of a fictional story
that people can connect with
on a more emotional level around these issues.
Love it, love it.
Well, that sounds great.
Very interesting.
Like multiple projects here.
Is there some type of connection
between MetaMe and MetaNights
or are they completely separate from each other?
They're separate entities,
but MetaNights uses a lot of MetaMe's technology.
So MetaNights is really designed
to showcase and be a platform
for MetaMe's technologies.
So there are sort of three core things
we're working on from a tech perspective
in that sense at the moment.
It really, we have a protocol
and we call the IQ protocol,
which is basically about identity,
information and intelligence,
decentralized identity,
information and intelligence.
A decentralized identity,
information and intelligence network
is essentially what IQ protocol is.
And we call it a layerless protocol
because it's basically designed
to be a protocol that can work
within multiple layer ones,
layer two, layer three,
potentially even blockchain solutions,
which is really for managing identity,
information and intelligence.
So that's sort of the underpinning
protocol and framework.
And our go-to-market focus
is around smart personas,
intelligent personas
that allow you to have persistent identities
across multiple chains
and across multiple applications,
be they in web two or web three,
even web one in that regards.
And then to be able to manage
your identity and identifiability
through personas, essentially,
across those different domains.
So Meta Knights is a,
you know, is very much,
is very much a creative story world.
And in fact, it's unfolding.
You know, we've created like a 13 part comic saga,
but it's basically a story,
a game and a metaverse story world.
So we're building out
this metaverse experience
whereby you can really sort of explore
these different personas
and how they work
using Meta Knights as a vehicle for that,
but also while we build out
with other metaverse partners
around that as well.
Got it.
So you say managing identity,
information and intelligence,
I say if we can go one by one
through those things,
what does identity really mean today
in this world of blockchain,
internet, decentralization, AI?
And, you know, how do we approach it?
Yeah, you know, I talk a lot about this.
I think, firstly, I think the,
there's a couple of things
that are really important to grasp.
I think, let's start at basics.
I think usually when people talk about identity,
what they're really talking about
is identifiability.
Now, identity is actually,
is a very subjective thing.
And it's really about who you are,
what you believe and,
you know, what your values are
and, you know, where you come from,
what you identify with,
what you don't identify with,
how you present yourself,
how people perceive you.
So it's a big, complex, nebulous belief system
that you have about yourself
and that the world has about you.
And I think one of the realities
that we are facing
is that identity has become
a lot more complex
as a result of digital media,
as a result of digitalization.
And I think that that's both a good thing
and a bad thing.
You know, for example, in many ways,
I don't think,
I think in the digital age,
for the first time,
you know, common people,
everyday people
have had the ability
to shape the way
that they,
their identity,
to have the ability
to shape their identity.
You know, traditionally,
or, you know,
in the 20th century,
it was really only aristocrats
and celebrities
and captains of industry
that had the PR machinery
to shape their image
the way that they wanted
to have.
Otherwise,
you really only had
the micro sort of capability
in your local community
to potentially shape your image
to your reputation.
But the web has given us
all these platforms
and tools
to shape our identity
in a very complex way,
which is not necessarily
a bad thing.
But I think,
usually,
the thing that we have
to be most careful about,
and we all are obviously
becoming increasingly aware
of the surveillance state
and the dangers
of this tracking
of ourselves online
and being manipulated
and exploited
and misinformation
and false information
and all of the toxicity
of the internet.
And in that sense,
the thing that is most important
to manage
is your identifiability,
which is really about,
can you be separated
from a group?
You know,
if you look at the footprint
of multiple users online,
can you be individualized?
Can you be isolated?
And can you then be tracked?
And can you be followed?
You know,
it's a bit ironic in a way
because, you know,
the reality of the machinery,
you know,
there's a great book
by a professor from Harvard,
I believe,
Zoshana Zuboff,
it's called
The Age of Surveillance Capitalism,
which is kind of really
the most authoritative
academic book
that's been written
on this trend overall.
But, you know,
she talks about
Big Other
as opposed to Big Brother,
which is this
big surveillance machinery.
But, you know,
the interesting thing
is that the irony
is that
the surveillance
industrial complex,
as I call it,
doesn't really care
about your identity per se.
It doesn't really care
about who you are.
It cares about what you are.
It cares about what you do
and how it can influence you.
So it doesn't really care
about your name
only insofar as
it can use it
to influence
and manipulate you.
It really cares more
about your behavior
and what you do
and what you like
and how it can
interfere with that
to sort of control you.
So really,
there's a big problem,
I think,
in understanding,
our understanding
of identity
versus identifiability
and how we really need
to protect
our identifiability
in order to be free
in the digital age.
Wow.
This was very deep,
very great.
Okay.
I don't even know
what to say after this.
just that you're right,
I guess.
You know,
I really love
like a lot of good points
brought up here,
especially
around sort of
identity
as in who you are
and identity
just like
who you are
not specifically right
but as a set of behaviors
that can be manipulated
or like set of
sort of value
that can be extracted
from you.
And,
you know,
from a perspective
of like a regular person,
what do you think
people should do
in order to,
you know,
maybe protect
their identity
in a certain way
because I understand
there's like
a lot of problems
around that
but I guess
probably
like on the
surface level,
right,
why it's so valuable
is all this
like advertisement,
right,
targeted advertisement
sort of
studying consumer behavior
what you're going to buy
what you're not going to buy
how to make you buy something
how to make you
like engage
in a certain way
behave in a certain way
and,
you know,
especially living
in the world of internet
I think everybody
experiences that
it's like attention economy
addiction economy
how to get you stuck
in this app
how to get you stuck
like on this video
on this food
and,
but yeah,
what do you think
like from
like a regular person
perspective
you know that
what are some steps
what are some things
that people should be doing
to sort of maintain
that like identity hygiene?
Yeah,
I mean,
it's,
you know,
I wrestle with this question
a lot
I mean,
okay,
let me first answer
your question directly
and then talk a bit
more generally
you know,
I think things
that you can do
are,
you can,
you know,
use strong passwords
you can manage
your footprint
you can use
some identity
protecting
services
like Firefox
browser
for example
has always,
Mozilla have always
been great champions
in the privacy space
so Firefox
is a great browser
to use in that regard
you can use
DuckDuckGo
as opposed to Google
or Bing
for searches
and you can
just be vigilant
about,
you know,
how you provide
things like passwords
and access codes
you know,
you can do things
I mean,
there's a big problem
though,
you know,
there's a,
the big problem
with this,
with the question
with the space
the,
is that
there's always,
you know,
usually when you
expose the problem
right,
when we expose
the problem
of surveillance
and the surveillance
industrial complex
and the toxic web
you know,
it's all about
well,
what can we as people
do about it
and you're up
against the big
challenge of
what,
the way that
this narrative
is usually framed
is like privacy
versus convenience
and you know,
at the end of the day
it's super convenient
to use
Facebook Connect
or Google
I personally use
email and passwords
for,
to log into
all of these services
but that's a,
it's a,
you know,
I understand it,
it's a nightmare
when you forget
the password
or you don't have
the password
and identity
access management
is a horrific
experience
for most people
so most people
opt to use
Google
or Facebook Connect
to connect
to these services
because at the end
of the day
we just want to get
on with our lives,
right?
So convenience
trumps privacy
pretty much
all the time
but you know,
two things I think
are really important
you know,
just to be very clear
before I go off
on a bit of a tangent
but,
you know,
I think things you can do
you can use
more privacy
preserving browsers
like DuckDuckGo
as I say,
more privacy preserving
search engines
like,
sorry,
browsers like
Firefox,
search engines
like DuckDuckGo
I would use
username and password
or email and password
to log into services
more than
the federated
services
social login
so those are things
you can do
and then be more
vigilant
around
the apps
that you use
I don't
realistically think
it's practical
to advise people
to read terms
and conditions
of apps
that they sign up to
no one has the time
for that
which really comes
to the big point,
right?
You know,
I believe that
it's wrong
to put the responsibility
and the onus
on people
I think it is
important
to give people
agency
and the ability
to make choices
for themselves
but I think
fundamentally
this is a
industry problem
I think it is
up to us
as the
technology industry
to solve
this problem
for people
you know
it's not fair
to push the burden
onto the end user
it's not fair
to say that
you must
use all these
super secure
passwords
and never use
the same password
all the time
and have
multi-factor
authentication
two-factor
authentication
is another
thing that you
can use
but we have
to design
these things
in a way
that makes
life easier
for people
you know
for me
that is really
the biggest
challenge
and that's
what we're
really addressing
with MetaMe
very specifically
right now
you know
I think
you know
we have a
very complex
and sophisticated
and complete
protocol
for managing
identity
information
intelligence
as I
said
you know
where we are
really focused
right now
identity
management
user login
registration
you know
using the
security
of Web3
the convenience
of Web
in fact
Web2
and Web1
to an extent
so we
have
we have
an identity
service
that you
can basically
you know
ideally
Web3
is quite
secure
in terms
authenticating
and can
be quite
seamless
essentially
we have
an identity
service
that allows
you to
use an
email address
to establish
a wallet
and then
once you
have the
wallet
you can
then connect
all of
your accounts
to it
including
your social
media accounts
then you
effectively
have
passwordless
access
application
or service
that
uses
this
with a
simple
signing
wallet
signing
process
like you
do with
the Web3
wallet
but with
a very
easy
onboarding
is as
simple as
putting in
your email
address
you know
verifying
with like
a magic
link
essentially
wax you
are on
mute
is it
can you
hear me
yes I
think it's
just wax
is on
mute
there you
hello
can you
hear me
yes I
can hear
you now
you're on
mute
for a
second
there
I think
I just
lost you
cannot hear
any sound
from you
can you
hear me
give me
thumbs up
if you're
able to
hear me
with the
reactions
yeah
okay
thumbs up
could you
disconnect
from the
space
and just
come back
sometimes
tourist
spaces
are giving
these types
of troubles
that has
happened
before
so they
should fix
thank you
sorry for
inconvenience
guys
hope you
enjoying
the space
you hear me
okay
yeah I
can hear you
well were
you done
or were
you still
no no no
I think
I'd made
the points
around
that so
I guess
just to
summarize
I think
the you
know there's
things you
can do as
a user
but I
don't think
that that's
the right
answer to
the problem
I think
we as an
industry have
responsibility
to make
to develop
very convenient
very user
friendly solutions
that are
extremely secure
and extremely
private
and that's
what we're
essentially
trying to do
with Metamy
no you
said a lot
of interesting
things that
I agree
with
especially
like you
know terms
and condition
for example
I feel here
all the time
that you
know this
sort of
agreements
are always
pushed on
consumer
that everybody
understands
that no one
is reading
them but
like because
it's sort of
pushed on
that side
even like
something like
gym membership
contract like
you know in
America
they make
it they make
everything so
that you
always sign
some type of
contract whatever
you're doing so
then in any
case of the
problem right
it's kind of
on you but
I agree like
this is kind
of really
wrong but
then it's
like a problem
right that a
lot of the
times what's
sort of like
best for
consumer and
best in like
terms of
privacy and
just the
right better
solution goes
against sort
of like corporate
interests against
like you know
they also have
like their reasons
to do with
companies to
make more money
or to protect
themselves from
liability and
things like that
and then again
we have the
privacy versus
convenience debate
where you know
this is actually
what I wanted to
touch a little
bit more upon
since I'm
actually the
person who
does use this
like the
google logins
everywhere because
you know after
years and years
of like complicated
task force I
realized the one
who suffers from
it the most is
always me when I
lose something or
can't get it back
up and you know
that's what I
wanted to ask you
for like a
regular person
is there like
what are sort
of the risks
of our identity
being you know
like misused or
as you said
before like they
were being
manipulated in
some way and
you know are
those risks
really worth
sacrificing all
that convenience
for someone who
you know doesn't
have any like
crazy secrets or
maybe like extra
large sums of
money and
after that let's
jump into
metami project
and actually learn
you know how
it solves all
those problems
in the world
yeah sure so I
think the first
you know that's
a it is a that's
the choice right
privacy versus
convenience but I
think it's a false
choice to be honest
with you but let's
let's let's before
we explore that in
more detail let's
kind of unpack it
a little bit so I
think the first
thing is so you
know when I think
about digital rights
and I'm one of
things I didn't
mention in my
intro I set up an
NGO since 2013
campaigning for
digital rights as
an extension of
human rights and
I've worked with
on creating ethical
data standards
with the British
Standard Institute
and yada yada
but keeping it
grounded let's keep
it grounded in
terms of everyday
people and what's
the real kind of
risk here so I
think the first
thing is that when
you look at
digital rights you
know they're
basically three
core pillars one
is privacy one is
property and one
is agency so
agency is
essentially about
freedom privacy is
about you know the
right to have
control around who
can see what
information about
you and property
is about value
what is the value
of your digital
of your you know
what is the value
of your property
privacy and so you
know you're you're
saying in a sense
that okay I've got
nothing to hide and
that's I understand
that you know so
that's the privacy
argument and I would
argue that well it
may appear that way
it's not really about
necessarily having
anything to hide you
know but it's it's
about you know having
the right to have
certain things private
you know I might
have a conversation
with my wife or
with my children or
with my friends that
isn't anything
innocuous but it's
not for public
consumption you know
I same reason we
have bathrooms and
bedrooms versus all
living out in the
open in an open
space because there
are just some things
that are private so
privacy is a real
fundamental part of
being human in that
sense but even if you
take the view that
okay I don't really
have anything to hide
per se you know I
think that's just a
matter of you know
the one of the big
challenges on the
privacy front the big
risk is the propensity
for manipulation so
you know and this
comes back to the
third pillar of
agency so really I
think everybody agrees
that we all want
freedom right everybody
you know whether it's
free speech or just
freedom the right to
life liberty in the
pursuit of happiness
right I think
everybody can agree
that that's something
we fundamentally all
wish for and I think
you know the problem
that we have with
privacy in a digital
age it's like the
slow boiling frog you
know the analogy of a
frog in slowly boiling
water so it doesn't
realize that it's
boiling until next
thing you know it's
dead and it's cooked
and it's a meal for
someone and I think
that's sort of what we
face with the erosion
of our privacy it's like
a slow slow death
march and you know
we've seen it in
terms of misinformation
is perhaps the
biggest thing you
know we've seen it
in terms of election
manipulation right
here in America you
know the most free
country on earth
supposedly right we've
seen you know the
impact of organizations
like Cambridge
Analytica who were
able to do two
pretty spectacular
things one was
bring in Brexit
have the you
you know drive the
UK out of Europe
because both of
that and and the
Trump's election
ascendancy and I'm
not getting into
the I'm not
arguing a the
politics from a
point of Republican
or Democrat or
Brexiter versus
Remainer but the
reality is that both
of those campaigns
campaigns were very
knife-edge and the
reason that they
were why Trump was
able to succeed and
why Brexit was able
to succeed both who
were driven by
Cambridge Analytica
was because they
developed an algorithm
that was able to
identify key
persuadable people in
swing areas and they
were able to identify
these people through
their data and they
were able to then
create stories that
influence the way
these people behave
so and that's like
an extreme but real
reality of this and
you know we see this
all the way through to
January 6th
insurrection where
misinformation drives
people's behavior and
action we're seeing a
very direct correlation
now between the
ability to understand
how people think and
the ability to use
that understanding to
manipulate people to
take action and
behavior that is
desired of them and
in extreme cases
that can result in
violent sort of
insurrection in more
subtle everyday
person cases even
though many of the
people who were who
committed the
insurrection in
January 6th for
example were everyday
people but if you
kind of take that
sort of extreme action
out even just in
terms of manipulation
around what we buy
and what we watch
and what we consume
what you start to see
is the erosion of
our freedom and
effectively on the
privacy front as you
lose privacy the more
you lose the right to
privacy the less free
you can be and what
and that even that's
even a freedom of
thought you know it's
not before you even get
to free choice and
free will you lose
free thought if you
don't have the right
to privacy whether you
exercise it or not is
totally up to you but
if you don't have that
right you don't really
have freedom so that's
the first thing but
then on the second
side of it on the
property side it's
economic as well so
you know your data
definitely has value it
has huge value and
this is why so many of
these services are
given to us for free
because the reality is
Facebook can never
charge you enough of a
subscription fee to
to match what they
can make from your
data you know if
they charge how much
they're going to charge
you 400 500 dollars a
year a thousand dollars
a year I mean you know
who would pay for
Facebook if it cost a
thousand dollars a year
and I guarantee you
Facebook you know I
mean this was the
really big innovation
you know in the
industry when Facebook
did its IPO this was
the first time we
actually got to a
real direct correlation
between the value of
our data because you
know I think Facebook
had like a billion
users and it had a
I think it was a
billion I can't remember
a hundred billion IPO
but we got a direct
correlation between the
number of users the
value of the company so
we were able to
quantify it now Facebook
could never charge you
enough money to to
that it can make from
your data so you are
also losing a lot of
economic freedom by way
of losing control of
your data and I think
this is the real big
economic change that we
are going to that web
three starts to try to
address in terms of how
do you shift that power
and and it's it's
basically a power
relationship that we're
talking about but that
power manifests itself in
many ways it manifests
itself economically it
manifests itself culturally
it manifests itself
politically it manifests
itself in terms of our
general citizenship rights
Wow a lot of things have
been said here I'm very
tempted to talk about
information propaganda and
its effects on the minds
of people in this
generation that we grew up
with internet but to keep
it I guess more on the
topic you know it's
very interesting you
brought up Facebook as
far as Anderson right
their whole like business
model is based on
basically consumer data
right like targeted
advertising and things
like this and up until
recently you know I was
under it I guess maybe it
is a misconception and you
could explain it that you
know while data is
important like cost
consumer data is
important it's only like
valuable in large
quantities sort of and
like individual you know
data of like me or
someone else does not
cost a lot and only cost
like a lot when it's a
bunch a bunch of people
that's being sold like
some company that needs
that data on those
consumers but it's a very
interesting point you
brought up Facebook
haven't billion users I
just looked up they have
around 800 billion market
cap so does it like from
your experience you
obviously know so much
in this industry like
what's the real value of
like an individual
consumer data is it
actually like some
quantifiable numbers or
is it just like a couple
cents per person and
unless it's in the big
batches it doesn't really
worth much so this is
another one of the great
industry narratives that
is put out there that oh
your data is only worth
in there's various numbers
they use from you know
$17.50 per annum you
know or to $175
generally around you know
there was actually a model
that the financial times
put out a couple of years
ago this little algorithm
to kind of calculate your
the value of your data so
this is a complex area but
let me simplify it as best
as possible so the first
thing is that you know
well there's a couple of
the first thing I think I
we want to separate is
advertising versus
versus behavioral
manipulation and
advertising in itself is not
necessarily evil in fact to
be honest with you the
advertising industry would
argue that it has been
hijacked effectively by the
fangs you know Facebook
Amazon Netflix and Google
but Facebook and Google
Amazon to many extenses now
that's become another
powerful advertising
powerhouse
you know advertising can
be helpful but the what
what Facebook is really sort
of in the business of is
is is actual what Facebook
really tries to do it goes
beyond behavioral behavioral
insights what they actually
really try to do is sell
behavioral influence now
in terms of the value of
data yeah again there's a
very false narrative that
is painted out there that
your data is worth pennies
now the reason why I spoke
about advertising a little
bit there is that what is
true is that advertisers
don't want to advertisers
want scale right you know
one of the reasons why TV
was always such a successful
medium for advertisers was
because it is extremely
efficient you know you can
basically throw five million
dollars at it and you're
going to see an uptake in
your performance your sales
performance that's pretty
predictable and pretty
manageable you know they
always say you don't know
which 50 50 percent of your
media is wasted and 50 percent
is useful they don't know
which part is useful not but
they know that if they get
scale then they can achieve
volumetric improve performance
so that's the scale part of it
but to say that individual data
is valueless is not true because
for example you know like look at
polls for example the process of
running polls for elections these
are run on small groups of people
you know a couple of thousand a
couple of you know tens of
thousands of people are used to
run these polls and when you look
at consumer insight groups again
these are run on small groups of
users so it's all about context
you know at the example that i
often use for this is you know the
average clinical trial anywhere you
know but particularly here in the
states the average cost to recruit a
consumer to a clinical trial in pure
advertising and discovery costs is
twenty thousand dollars so if you think
about that for a second you know if
you have an illness like and quite
frankly let's look at something like
obesity diabetes or other you know
two one in three people are on the
verge or if not type 2 diabetes so
this is a massive problem right now if
you are if you are a diabetic person
then your data that you being a
diabetic person identifying as that is
extremely valuable to companies that
are trying to develop therapies and
remedies for that so it's really the
challenge is really about finding a way
to make your data finding where your
data is valuable and actually the ironic
thing as well is that the more
individualized you are which the more
you can define yourself as a person
because everybody is like a snowflake
right we're all unique and individual
and the more you individualize yourself
the more valuable your data actually
becomes it's the outliers that actually
become more valuable in data ecosystems so
it's a mistruth to say that data is only
valuable at in large volumes it's most
useful in terms of advertising in large
volumes because that's what advertisers
want but in data is very useful in many
different types of scenarios in industry
and commerce at smaller scales as well you
know it can be hugely valuable for research
and development across many vectors and
many different contexts and i think one of
the big challenges that we have today is
that it's a rigged market you know the price
of data is determined by these data
barons that are basically using the data
solely for exploitation through advertising
so they they use that to qualify the value of
data it's that's that's which is nonsensical
right you know it's it's like the wolf
overseeing the chickens pen or the sheep pen
saying this is how much a sheep is worth
it's not factual and in fact it's damaging
to society because we're not actually being
able to use this data to drive innovation
especially in this age of ai now which is
you know ai is only as good as the data it
accesses and this this the the the advertising
led model especially the way that it's managed
by the current data barons creates very poor
quality data which is bad for advertisers
you know i mean you know the advertising
is destroyed in terms of what's being done
with the data advertisers are suffering and all the big advertisers
procter and gamble unilever and all of these companies
have been very vocal publicly about this
so it's very destructive for advertising
it's very destructive for society we see this in the legal system
in the political system in the media system
and it's very destructive for innovation
which we're now starting to see with ai
great um we've been talking for around 40 minutes now i'm sorry to keep you so long
on the general topics it's just that you're
very interesting very interesting source of information
maybe that was a little selfish of me but
i think everybody enjoyed uh you know all your insights
on this especially since uh i think a lot of us are not familiar with the
topic at that depth and now that we are a little more familiar we can really
appreciate what uh sort of the solutions to this
problems and uh i think it's right about time to
jump in into what you're building uh your project metami right and uh
yes uh we've talked for a while about uh sort of all the things that are wrong
with the data and uh let's talk a little bit how does metami makes them right
on different levels thank you that's a great segue um
yeah i mean so i think you know it comes down to
we have a fundamentally different approach to data like i say you know we have
this protocol we call it the iCube protocol as an identity
information like i to the power of three so identity information and
intelligence and it's basically about how do you take ownership and control of
that and actually the most complex part
of it is the identity space and you know essentially um you know i
always say that you can't own your identity if you can't own your anonymity
right you know they kind of go hand in hand and and look you know the good news
here is that regulation has caught up with it because you you know you're
really right wax when you said earlier that um
you know corporate and business interests are out of sync with our privacy
and they then the convenience play and you know that it's
you know the the corporate interests are driving a particular way and that is
true and that's why regulation has got such an important role to play in this
and the good news is that regulation is changing you know not fast enough in
america but you know this is the powerful thing
about the internet is that it is a global network and a global system
so when you have a really strong legal regimen that's formed which has
happened in europe you now have a framework that influences the whole world
and is and starts to become a global framework so in europe we have
basically three core regulations there's general data protection
regulation which is the foundational one which came into law in 2018
which is really deals with privacy um then we now have also the mika act which
is really around web 3 and crypto which is really clear about you know kyc aml
requirements and stuff like that and actually it's an interesting problem
because this really reflects the complexity of identity because on one
hand general gdpr requires strong data protection
and and this really leads into what we're doing with metamese
um why i'm going into this um because essentially
under gdpr the only way you can get exemption from gdpr
is if you make data anonymous now this is a big problem for web 3
because um all of the public private key framework that we use in web 3 is
basically pseudonymous identifiers which means that they are that is all
considered by european law personal data which means you have to extend the
right to be forgotten the right to um access the right to correction and of
course with immutable ledgers that's impossible so there's a time bomb
ticking in the web 3 space around gdpr compliance because the personal data
is i is because the personal identifiers that public
private key framework are pseudonymous identifiers and that's going to be a
problem with gdpr but on the other hand you then have mika
which is um requires kyc aml for d5 services and the like where you need
strong identifiability so the first thing is that our
protocol the iq protocol that we've developed
achieved something that's foundationally important
we enable network level anonymity so at the chain level at the
permissionless public chain level we have anonymous identifiers
and that's a very complicated tough thing to achieve zero knowledge technology has
helped a lot in terms of being able to facilitate this in a permissionless
network today um so that's kind of part of our solution
um but effectively you need to have anonymity at the network level but then
identifiability at the application levels and that's what our protocol enables
by creating these i cubes which are these information containers
that allow us to put information into these small crypto objects that can then
be um anonymous when viewed we basically have this principle
of visible and invisible data so invisible data is metadata that is on chain
that allows us to describe a data set so i might for example say okay this is a
data set that has delays um nft wallet value which which nfts he owns which
crypto assets he owns what social networks he uses and that's what's contained in
this object but it wouldn't say delay it would just say a data subject
and that metadata would be on chain whereas the actual payload this is delay this is you know
he has 23 nfts he's got you know two eath left in his wallet i wish i joke um but you know
that would be invisible and either in a private permission chain or off chain um but the important
thing is that we then entangle this off chain data or private permission data with the on chain
metadata so that you've got this you know immutable um real entanglement between them so you can't
change the off chain data and not impact the on chain data and that's this then creates a new kind of
um information primitive that we can then enable use all of web3 technologies to enable transactions
and sharing and use around so that's the core of what we do and then we then use that
to facilitate sharing of identity in different ways um through the network
and uh your product or protocol that does all this um is this like a layer one its own blockchain or
does it work on top of some other blockchain yeah so we call it layerless and we call it layerless
because um so we build on layer zero and um layer zero basically allows us to build it it's like a
it's like a protocol it's like it's really a meta protocol that and i know that's a bit of a cliche
these days but it really is truly a meta protocol that can live within or on top of any layer one or layer two
so essentially we design it as a protocol that we can basically build nodes around any layer one
or layer two and effectively deploy the objects there they're designed to be interoperable between
chains which is where layerless is i'm sorry layer zero has is really helpful um so because layer zero
kind of gives this interoperability between evm well between all blockchains but certainly evms at the
moment um it allows us to essentially um build on that in a way that is chain agnostic and therefore
and interoperable across different chains so that's really the heart of what we do and and that's
really important in terms of our go-to-market focus area so the first thing we're launching now is this
um we call them metasonas and they are these personas it's basically a way for you to manage your
identity in a kind of platform via personas in a platform agnostic way what that essentially means
is that you know for example to make it really practical let's say really simply you know i could have
a profile which is my well first of all so the first thing is that you know there's so many
ironies in this space so the first thing is that identity is actually highly decentralized at the
moment you know if you think about it you know you've got some of your identities in facebook some
of it's in google some of it's in discord some of it's in ethereum or metamask some of it's in you know
the dh the the the dmv some of it's in your bank some of it's with netflix etc etc right it's all
scattered in all of these different places so actually the first thing that we do with our with
metasonas is allow you to take what i call self-centralization because actually this is the
thing when it comes to identity and personal data you actually want self-centralization you want
decentralized interaction between yourself and other entities but you want to have self self-sovereignty
is really self-centralization so the first thing we do is enable you to bring all of your footprint
together under one persona which we call your prime persona and control have complete control over it
and then we allow you to then create sub sonas which sub personas um based on your life so you might
like have a work persona for example versus let's keep it really simple a work persona versus a social
persona right and your work persona you might want to use for your professional communications and
engagements and relationships so you build all of those relationships and connections
between the persona so these personas allow you basically to create direct relationships with
content and entities and networks and applications based on a persona rather than you know um and based
on a persona that is persistent and that's the important thing so it's like you know yes i've got my
linkedin profile but what happens when i want to connect various activities on linkedin facebook um
on um medium and then also i in discord and also with nfts i've got an ethereum polygon and cardano and near
and i want to bring all of this together into one cohesive space that's what metasonas allows us to do
wow that's uh actually makes a lot a lot of sense from a more like practical perspective
how uh how does it work that it is compatible with you know information from blockchain and your facebook
and dmv records like how do you actually how are you able not maybe on a technological level
but how does it make sense that how can you unite all this information together and have it all under my
control and it's basically you create a data vault so we give you a data vault and and this is you know i mean
we've actually built this in the past and it's it's more downstream a more downstream problem but
basically you create a data vault which is just a repository because it's all information at the end of
the day if i bring in pictures and posts from linkedin facebook etc and i put them into my data vault
you know these are records versus i bring in transactions or digital assets you know history
and assets essentially is what web3 is today right my transaction history or my assets that are connected
to my wallet addresses these are all just objects that i can they're records that i can capture in my data
vault as well so the powerful thing is and this is really what's heart of our protocol you know we
basically atomize your data so if i bring in data from your driving license or from facebook or from
metamask or from discord i basically break it all down into individual records you know so like your first
name last name last name address wallet address nft collection um assets transactions over the last 30
days transactions over the last 60 days these are all individual records so now i can combine any of
those records now that i've broken them down into individual records i can mix them into these
i cubes into these objects based on whatever task i'm trying to achieve and they're just all
data points you know it's like a mixture of different like lego brick bricks effectively you know i can
just bring out these different bricks from different places and create a shape that i want and then turn
that into a crypto asset into a crypto object and encrypt it and put the protections around it and enable
that to then be shared as a crypto object just like a currency or an nft um in that sense but where the
actual thing that is being shared is a much more rich three-dimensional payload
and uh what are the things uh from like uh the user perspective that can actually be done
with uh that like data unit so if it's on chain doesn't mean it's sort of like limited uh
um like the the stakeholders are like different people who you can share this information to is
it limited to web three or um i guess let's just keep it open-ended like what can be done with those
like data sets once i have created them what can i use yeah i mean so firstly it's we call it web
agnostic so they could be consumed by web one two or three applications um it really the the web
aspect really because without getting into the weeds of the technology but we use w3c frameworks
as well which allow you to share these objects potentially without even needing a blockchain you
could share them in a web one context or web two context but web three gives you is an audit trail
and a degree of enforceability um but the at the end of the day they can be consumed through apis
into applications that can be used and they can be used so where we are focusing with metasonas is
around registration and login but um it can also be i mean we're very much focused on the metaverse
as our go-to-market and in that sense you could you know use them to move an avatar between worlds and
bring different assets um like in-game inventory or skins or skills bring them from one environment to
another and they can follow with you we're also very much focused around ai around personalized ai
training so you can use this to create a series of data feeds that can be used to train an ai model that
is specifically designed to you you can use it to make data available to ai for training you can use it to
capture insights from ai so that you have an audit trail to trace because again of the web three
element what we now have is a very transparent and traceable audit trail for information transactions
so you now start to be able to see the origins of information you know so you can kind of start to
see that could be used in media to establish the provenance it can be used in research to establish
the provenance of data the use cases are you know really kind of endless in terms of what it can do
um but in the short term for users you know we're focusing around how do you identify yourself
so for example if you for defy services you know you might you want a very easy login or very easy sign up
or registration if you encountered a defy service online and you wanted to sign up you could sign up
very easily just by providing a very basic i cube and then the deeper you go into the service the more
information that you're required to share so you can share information on a need-to-know basis
very intelligently through it
got it uh is there like an application or a website where all our listeners can go and start
interacting with those things and using them um coming soon so meta knights is really we've got
uh through our meta knights franchise we're um which is like our crypto comic story metaverse game
we're about to release a wallet um which will have this identity uh framework sort of baked into it
um so that's going to be released uh before thanksgiving god willing as they say um and um
yeah so that will be the first sort of use case of it and we'll be rolling out that out to our
meta knights community we've got some partnerships with a couple of other um metaverse related projects
um there's a there's a there's a metaverse out of europe called milk that we're working with
there's a meta stadiums is a partner that we have which is bringing soccer to the metaverse through
streaming to the metaverse so we're integrating our identity service into these platforms for people
so i would say follow meta knights m-e-t-a-k-n-y-t-s dot com or follow meta me um uh on twitter and you
will be sharing more information about our launch uh on both of those platforms imminently
got it uh okay wow this has been a great space we've been live for over an hour i just want to say
to everyone i'm sorry for being selfish today we do have some people who wanted to ask questions but
i took all the time by myself maybe we can have dela and sometime when there's some new updates come
again and then we'll allow community more to participate um and yeah just before we wrap it up
uh is there any last messages anything you want to say to our community we have around like what
20 people listening not too many today unfortunately but still quite a crowd so if there's anything you
want to tell them before we close now is the time yeah well thank you everyone for attending i'm it's
all about quality rather than quantity 2020 is fantastic um yeah no thank you for taking the time
to to come and learn more do please follow us we got some really exciting stuff we're doing with
near as well we love near's whole philosophy about easy onboarding um so you know that's going to be a
big part of our solution um going forward um so we're working on some really interesting stuff with
near around that and um yeah please stay tuned and uh and uh you know i would just say you know change
is coming and that change is going to put a lot more power in people's hands and the technology we have
the tools we have the regulation we just need to bring them all together in terms of innovating
those solutions and i think there's really you know there's exciting days ahead
love it what a great positive message and on this note we're going to wrap this space up thanks
everybody for coming thank you delia for coming this was definitely one of the most interesting spaces
we've had a lot of great insights by you so i really appreciate your time and uh yeah good luck
with everything i'm gonna rug the space now bye bye thank you very much
