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222 Hours of Love Sunday Morning Asia
Recorded: Sept. 21, 2025 Duration: 1:44:21Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the potential of the Permuto project while expressing skepticism about its benefits. The conversation highlighted trends in liquidity, growth opportunities for Chia, and the ongoing struggle against larger financial players, indicating a dynamic landscape in the crypto market.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning in Asia.
Good morning. What it is with me and co-host,
but we do not get along.
I co-host and host.
I don't know why Twitter just does not want to stay connected for me.
It just fucked.
My phone is like fucked.
I have a similar issue if I use my actual phone, like
my current phone. So I
switch to an old device
that doesn't have cellular
and it just connects to Wi-Fi
and I don't have problems on this old phone
for some reason.
So I don't know if you have a different device maybe you
could try. Like I'm just sitting on
LTE right now. Like I usually it's my Wi-Fi that's spotty, but right now it's LTE that's being stupid.
Let me see if it works.
Oh, oh.
Did I make it?
I made it.
Yeah, you co-host.
This is a finicky co-host spot, but whatever.
I'll keep it as long as I can.
Hey, Ed, so how long are you going to be gone for?
About till 12, 1 a.m.?
I'm heading out now, but I'll be back in about 9, 10, 11,
about three or four hours.
So I'll pick it up from then.
But I can keep it running, though.
Yeah, we'll just message you and tag you if we need a hand with something.
Yeah, we'll just message you and tag you
if we need a hand with something.
Shouldn't be more than a couple buttons.
Oh, you won't have your phone? No worries, no worries, no worries.
I'll hold it down as long as I can.
Anyways, what does everybody want to talk about, man?
We got some Pramido want to talk about man we got some permuto shit to talk about
i mean i don't really have anything like i said like i said in the other space i don't really
have anything scheduled for tonight i was just gonna kind of shoot the shit and just
fucking talk about whatever um permuto's a little over my head Honestly I don't know about you
It's way over my head man
Like honestly
If you want my personal opinion
On fucking this Permito stuff
I don't think it does anything
For any of us
Maybe the price of chia goes up
And the blocks are full
But other than that
It doesn't really like
I don't see me being
Like a fucking
Whatever they are A DC whale Of anything see me being like a fucking DAC word,
whatever they are,
a DC whale of anything.
yeah,
I don't think the intent is for guys like us to,
to do that.
I think it's a revenue stream.
I think it's hopefully a revenue stream for CNI to give them more runway.
Essentially.
Yeah. I mean, like my whole thing is like why doesn't cni start doing the liquidity thing a little bit like they could be making
fees instead of dumping on our head like that like my whole thing is like at first i was like okay
selling the pre-farm you know whatever like they got to do it they hold way too many fucking like
they're all like CNI is technically,
in my opinion,
over leveraged with XCH.
They have too much.
They got to get rid of it.
I mean,
you want to,
you want them to get rid of it now and not at fucking a thousand dollars.
Yeah,
but they're getting rid of it to someone who's just holding it.
Right.
Like they're,
yeah.
Like they're, they're, they're like offloading all of the xch and it's
not coming back into the ecosystem like all that value is not coming back right now like
that's kind of a bullish thing for chia because it's got to maybe come back eventually like
somebody's got it like eventually somebody's gonna have to defend right like you got to
understand like there is offense and defense in the market right and right now there's not a whole
lot of defense going on but from anybody like if cni is not the only large holder of xch okay
they're just one of if and the largest holder So they have the most to lose by not defending the price.
They're not defending their pre-farm very good if I was to do it.
But they're also not doing the crypto thing, which is kind of their thing.
Does that make sense?
It would be too easy for them to just go and put XCH and BTC in a liquidity pool.
Like that's beneath them right now.
That's kind of my take is just like there,
there's a lot,
there's like a lack of manipulation in the market,
which is just as telling as a market that is being over manipulated.
You know what I think?
It's,
it's like both ends of the spectrum are kind of like acid and
fucking you know bleach yeah i don't i've not participated in like any kind of liquidity stuff
so i did a lot of that i don't even well i've never even entertained trying to learn it definitely very important
to know steve just in terms of like how this shit works because like really like we all look at
market cap like it's a big deal but really the liquidity is what's gonna make it or break it um
so like right now if you look at like the like here we can do some that's fucking let's do this
we're doing this live let's go look at like coin market here we can do some that's fucking let's do this we're doing this live
Let's go look at like coin market cap and just see how much is around
For the sake of argument tonight, I usually use coin gecko myself, but I mean
Argument can be made that coin market cap is better
So we'll just use coin market cap for the sake of it
Let's go look at the liquidity of chia holy geez i gotta oh my god we're the 300th ranked token that is we were
at high like 111 so it's nine dollars and 52 cents uh let's go look at the markets
$9.52.
Let's go look at the markets.
Oh, thank you for your cookies.
I always accept the cookies.
Let's see here.
What are we looking at?
We got Valden's liquidity score.
Do we have...
Do we have actually...
Do we have any actual numbers?
Of liquidity in the market?
I mean, if you look at the volume, it's not very much.
They don't even show it.
See, circulating supply.
Yeah, that's kind of like more market cap, though.
I see that as well.
Yeah, the circulating supply, 14.41 million,
which, I mean, surprisingly low,
considering the amount of tokens that are being sold.
We're looking at, maybe if I click some of these buttons,
we're looking at $3.42 million in volume.
There's no, there's really no
numbers.
So this is the problem with centralized exchanges is you don't know how much
liquidity is on them.
Like for $3 million, you would assume there's like a million dollars of liquidity. centralized exchanges is you don't know how much liquidity is on them like for three million
dollars you would assume there's like a million dollars of liquidity but i mean arguably we can
say there's maybe 20 million dollars total let's just say for sake of argument there's 20 million
dollars of liquidity across all of these exchanges um i mean that means that like if it's a 50-50 split between like, you know, USDC, Bitcoin, Ethereum, and then XCH, there's really only $10 million of liquidity in XCH.
So all of that market cap is really only worth $10 million of exit.
So that's kind of the math that I'm looking at when I go look at Chia right now.
It's basically got the liquidity of a fucking shitcoin.
It's not a lot like a fart like a silent but deadly fart from michael saylor's uh janitor after like a taco night could pump the price of chia absolutely like trump token was had was like
taking in million dollar buys at a time when it was first launched.
That would absolutely
rip the price of Chia.
I don't think there's enough coins on the market
for anybody to justifiably even do that.
The liquidity is so low
for Chia, it's weird.
It is weird, man.
It's abnormally low for a token.
It's a very centralized market
but like those coins are going somewhere like cni's getting rid of coins somebody's buying them
i don't think it's washing through a fucking three million dollar mark like a day market
okay so there's some like back channel kind of like gooey was kind of talking about the conspiracy
theory shit last night it's kind of ironic that we're back in the ed space because we're talking
fucking conspiracy theories again but like it feels like there's just something happening that
like we're not being told and it is definitely
important like we know about the permuto stuff we know blah blah blah all this but we don't
know who the market maker is we don't know uh where the liquidity is fucking going we don't
know if they're like fucking dumping all of this shit and buying bitcoin to rotate bitcoin like
when was the last time anybody seen so i think in one of the s1s i seen that chia's bitcoin holdings in 2022 was like 60 something say like 69 just for the memes uh
like 69 they held like 69 bitcoin in 2022 what if they sold a bunch of xch to a market maker and
now they got like i don't know a thousand bitcoin
or something nobody's telling us that is that not bullish though like because you do like i don't
know if people know what market makers do but like the tang gang is kind of like a market maker
so when you're looking at being a market maker you have to think of two sides of the coin.
You can't just think of XCH.
You have to think, I need whatever else I want to pair it with, whether it be USDC or fucking Microsoft shares. You need the other side of the pair.
There has to be some other side.
You know what I mean?
That's just kind of how, like, the market works.
You're buying and selling for either US dollars,
or if you're in, like, a DEX, you could be doing it for, like, exotic pairs, right?
But it still works the exact same way, kind of.
You need a supply on both sides.
Yeah, you need a supply on both sides,
and that's kind of what fulfills the market, right?
Like, so you need, like, essentially market makers to put up like, limit offers, basically, right? Like, kind of above and below the price. So that's like where liquidity comes in. It's just kind of like an automated system where it plays a range for you. So instead of doing like, you know know like hitting the button like to buy or sell and
just taking whatever the market is you're essentially putting your tokens up between
x price and x price and you're facilitating all of the trades within that range and you're just
kind of like buying and selling and you're really earning the volume of all of that right so that's
kind of like what the tang gang does as a group we just put all of our we pull all of our money
together on nine millimeter and then we kind of slowly what the Tang Gang does as a group. We just put all of our, we pool all of our money together on 9mm.
And then we kind of slowly take over what is called market share, right?
So that's kind of like the whole idea is you need two sides of the coin.
You need Bitcoin and you need ETH and you need Netcoin and you need XCH.
And you need all of these different coins, which is like a really good way to learn how to diversify.
And you should be diverse in crypto you shouldn't just be putting all your eggs like i think holding all of your
tokens is a very bad strategy in my opinion and i think historically most people would agree and
say that like you should make at least part of your bag work for you maybe not like put your
whole bag in but like if you can do like 75 25 and then have that like 25 kind of risky
um you know doing a little bit of of of grinding for you and and kind of like yield farming and basically using like,
so the way I look at it is like XCH yields XCH.
Ethereum yields Ethereum.
USDC yields USDC.
Bitcoin yields Bitcoin.
Well, it's mostly wrapped Bitcoin
or like Coinbase wrapped Bitcoin.
But like all of those things kind of yield themselves.
So you need to have all of those things if you want to kind of earn things. And then that's kind
of the whole point of if you're doing liquidity well, you're technically earning more tokens.
You don't really care what the price is. You're kind of just earning those fees and your fees
are going to accumulate more tokens over time to cover your initial basis so you're going to be earning back tokens not
dollars necessarily because you could be in pairs that are irrelevant to uh us dollars you could be
in like xch and ethereum for example so you're basing your cost basis on that but now most of
the people in here probably already know about most of that shit like my whole thing like kind of leaning it back to the cni thing is like we don't see that with chia
they could be earning like fees revenue depending on like pairs that they had facilitating the
market but we don't like the the approach here is very top down, but like even then, like it's kind of a weird approach where there's a lack of kind of defense of just everything.
We're not defending like CNI as the largest holder is not defending the price.
And they could write by thickening up the market a little bit and becoming their own market and
kind of selling through themselves a little bit but um i mean that's also not like for i guess
for them they're they're not really gaining anything out of it like the only way to really
make anything in this in this business is to fucking sell right like it's just the only way, but I don't know. I just see the, like, I look at what's there for what it is.
And I'm seeing a lack of manipulation on the crypto side.
I don't know what's going on with the Permuto stuff.
I don't really know how bullish I could ever be on that.
But like, I know that the crypto side, there is a lack of certain basic principles going on in the market
with liquidity going on.
All of that money is leaving Chia.
None of it is coming back.
And Gene is super fucking confident.
And almost too confident.
Over confident.
And that should be...
I feel like that's telling.
You know what I mean? He's got aces up his sleeve i feel like and moving back liquidity into the market i feel like it's not even the
right time to do that because if you own bitcoin you don't want to sell bitcoin yet but there is
going to come maybe a time and place where you do want to sell bitcoin right like we don't know what
price they bought it at.
Like, dude, Chia's been selling fucking XCH
since Bitcoin was, like, what?
Like, $30,000, $40,000?
So imagine if they've been buying that.
Like, they could have, like,
it's like, oh, Chia's losing money,
but meanwhile their Bitcoin wallet is up,
like, fucking 2x right now?
Like, what?
Like, come on, man.
It's not too bad.
And now they got a bunch of Bitcoin to put in liquidity when eventually the time comes and uh i feel like they're kind of waiting
for the ipo because they don't want to like manipulate anything or come across like manipulating
right because like xrp uh just got denied for their etf bullshit bullshit because they not only did what Chia did,
but like they won that battle with the SEC.
So like what she is doing with the pre-farm,
technically not a bad thing,
but like going into the market and then like actually manipulating the price is
technically like a no,
So like,
I feel like they're playing their legit card
as long as they can and trying not to
move the market.
I think that's where the lack of market manipulation
is coming in.
And then the market maker is just making the market
and they're just playing it smart.
Who knows?
They might already own a bunch of Bitcoin
and now they're just buying millions of GIA.
I feel like one day there's going to be a move. Somebody's going to
have to move.
Go ahead.
Yeah, I'm not
sure how much
they would. I mean, if they had
that much Bitcoin,
wouldn't they
cash some of that in
instead of selling
XCH? Maybe. I feel like they're selling the xch
to pay salary maybe i mean that's but who are they selling it to who's buying it we're not buying it
i mean it's a it's a market maker right so they're selling it then the market maker might be
um that's kind of the thing is like it doesn't even necessarily have to be CNI, Steve.
It just needs to be a large holder.
So like as CNI loses their position,
that just means other people are taking up positions.
You know what I mean?
And like, there's still a lot of like, you know,
people taking up big positions at the top
and none of those people have moved yet either.
So like what's kind of happening is the the chia whales are just playing to pain they're literally just fighting
motherfuckers out of the bag right now and i like i feel like that's a good strategy for chia because
like they if they don't fud farmers out of the bag then they're the ones that have to give up
the most pre-farm like they're just like essentially it's like a shakeout almost like i don't want to say it like if they're if
that's the fucking scam of chia they are shaking motherfuckers out because they're not doing
anything to manipulate the market and like it's literally it's like a game of like liquidity
chicken somebody's got to be the exit liquidity and cni to this day has never been the exit
liquidity they have dumped it onto us the entire time but like in doing so like somebody's fucking
well not i don't want to say dump it onto us because they have had a buyer for it
so i mean i'm sure the buyer has probably been dumping onto us but that is like i don't know man it's just whales are built differently
in this fucking space man they are built differently they just don't give a shit what
any of us think and they do what they want to do when they want to do it i feel like they're just
sitting under the price steve and like just buying up all the tokens. Basically letting you sell the tokens into their bags. This is the thing you have to realize. You never have to hit the buy button, ever. You can just set limit orders and have people sell into you, or you can have the opposite limit orders and have people buy into you
which would be like you know selling your tokens so like you never have to actually affect the
price if you know what the fuck you're doing there doesn't have to be any manipulation for
there to be manipulation it's a weird game when you really get into this shit man it's like you
really got to understand what's going on there is fucking games that you do not understand they are above our pay grades and if i knew what
those motherfuckers were going to do i would be so rich oh man that's the play though like that's
what i mean like that's if i don't see that play in chia anymore i would probably be gone
we might as well just go to base and play with bitcoin and eth on base
yeah like that's what i mean like there's something going on steve like so like don't
i mean like this permuto stuff i feel feel like is a nothing burger in the end of all it's like
she is just taking the real like cni C&I's taking really big swings.
Really big swings.
Really big swings.
Like, it's a revolution, man.
And, like, I think Gooey kind of touched on it last night, too.
Like, we don't know if there's somebody higher up that's kind of, like, suppressing the fucking people, right?
Like, if this really is a movement and Chia really is doing something
fucking, you know, kind of
cyberpunk-y, then
you don't think that the government would have that
like, kind of under their thumb
and be like, watching them and might string them
along a little bit, kind of push
back a little bit, see what they're really made
of. Like, I agree with
that sentiment as well. I feel like
the SEC is not a perfect example of
um you know efficiency or you know attention to detail like they fuck up all the time so
you know having them go back and forth with chia on like an s1 a30 and then making them go to an s1 a40 at the last minute you know it's very
yeah with exception or with exception yeah it's like kind of up their alley you know what i mean
like it's very sec it's very you know this this shit moves super slow it's not like crypto that
it's like you're gonna get the immediate return from you're gonna sit here
and it's gonna be months and months of back and forth it's just a grind man and then the whole
time nobody's defending the price of chia they're just sitting under the price and letting you sell
into them until the time is right when the pop the bag i think that's my that's my bullish outlook
on chia is that like we have not seen the pain yet. Like $6 Chia could very well happen.
Like I really took stock of it when we hit $12.
And I was like,
you know what,
the way things are looking now,
they're like not much going on and the goalposts are still moving.
So I think we go lower,
you know,
it's going to be,
it's going to be blood in the streets before we really see any,
but like eventually, that's what I mean. Eventually somebody's going to be it's going to be blood in the streets before we really see any. But like eventually, that's what I mean.
Eventually, somebody's going to have to move, Steve.
Eventually, like you don't just go and buy two million tokens and watch your bags go to dust.
It doesn't happen.
Nobody is that dumb.
And who the fuck?
Like, you know what I mean?
Like nobody just sets on fire fucking 20
million dollars or whatever nobody does that so somebody's got uh like you know somebody's got to
pump the bag eventually because they have you know their own bags kind of in the shit like
somebody's gotta do it it doesn't have to be cni i think there's a lot of people that
hold you know fair enough positions that could probably you know justify like okay now is the
time to try to fucking but like this is the thing cni holds such a strangle with that fucking pre
farm you almost want them to get rid of more so i don't know man like if i'm a whale i'm also
thinking how can i beat cni at their own game
too right like how can i get more from them so it's just pain man it's just there's something
so good going on here that people are just max painting the fuck out of everybody
that's the only thing i could see right now like why is nobody putting a million dollars into the market it's so easy to just hit five buttons and then start earning like you know revenue and shit
it's so easy it's not even hard man so i i don't know that's that's how i feel and like i but like
you know what i've now i just sound like a fucking hexagon it's like oh yeah richard hart's gonna
pump the bags but it's really not though it's not I don't necessarily think it's going to be CNI.
I think it might be somebody else.
I think, you know, somebody's going to buy enough Chia or own enough Chia one day.
They're going to be like, okay, I own X amount of the supply now.
I might as well just protect my fucking supply and make money off of what I just bought.
I don't know.
People don't, I don't catch knives.
Like, I mean, maybe we're just all catching knives, but I like, I don't know. I don't know people don't I don't catch knives like I mean maybe we're just all catching knives
but I like I don't know I don't know money is way too smart there's a lot of smart money in crypto
and I don't feel like people would be dumb enough to buy two million tokens and not ever defend their
fucking position or whatever it is I don't know I feel like even centralized exchanges might even
take a rip at it.
If they own enough tokens and they bought enough tokens. Like, just imagine like...
I mean, crypto.com is doing like
no volume, but like,
what if they're just stacking all the fucking tokens?
Like, real talk.
Yeah.
If crypto.com takes a position, or whatever.
You never know, man. I don know like how binance makes money they must like i think binance has a really good like i think all dexes and everybody
in crypto has a really good um narrative or whatever like for making things go up
like if you know if all the tokens on binance go up then they're just making more in fees
right like if you know what i mean like if crypto.com um you know pumps fucking chia they
just and they own a bunch of chia they just made a big fucking windfall right like are they not
allowed to do that shit i don't know fuck they're a bunch of scumbags like these people that's what
i mean like big money doesn't give a fuck about us.
They're just going to do what they want to do.
And half of this shit, you can't fucking tell who's doing what.
It's just going to come out of nowhere.
It's just going to be like, oh fuck, look at that.
Somebody actually did something for once.
I feel like that's how Pe Pepe coin happened and shit like it wasn't even fucking wasn't even
the community that pumped it to 4 billion it was just the fucking exchanges they shook everybody
out with the fucking the dump that happened the big ass dump like everybody bought Pepe
it went up fucking like almost 10,000x to hit a billion dollars it went on a bunch of exchanges
all at once it dipped all the
way back down to like 100 million dollars and then from there it went to like 4 billion like
fuck you man if that's not people manipulating the market i don't know what the fuck is
that's what it looks like but like chia's just been this forever down fucking, like, Max Payne.
I don't know.
Maybe Farmers held out better than they thought.
I don't really know what else to say on it, man.
Because, like, I can't put my finger on what the fuck is going on in this ecosystem.
There's just something going on here.
And I don't know what the fuck it is and i wish i knew
what it was man because like you can kind of put your finger on what's going on on every other
blockchain like why is the price of bitcoin steadily going up well it's getting injections
of fucking etf money all the time like and here here's a real conspiracy theory since we're
fucking leading off edspace like who's buying of the Bitcoin black rock fucking all these other holding
companies and fucking,
you know,
hedge funds.
Like,
so what are they really like?
Who's losing control of Bitcoin?
I think I feel like the everyday man is just losing it.
It's like,
Oh yeah,
you can go buy like a fucking fraction of a Bitcoin on your thing,
but like these motherfuckers are scooping it up by the millions.
Like we're fucked,
man.
If that's what happened,
like Bitcoin is going to just like eventually be a corporate fucking bullshit
coin.
Like why,
how is anybody going to make money on that stuff?
What's up,
Jay money.
And go ahead.
I'm rambling now a little bit.
Oh, going to make money on that stuff. What's up, Jay Money? Go ahead. I'm rambling now a little bit. Honk!
Honk, honk, honk.
Did you hear my roast earlier? Dude, I
got fucking roasted.
That was Gene that just
honked you, Foobs. He told you to shut up.
Oh, really? You guys
missed my roast, man. I got fucking roasted.
Well, I'm sitting here
having cocktails and dinner with Gene, Bram, some Tang Gang folks,
Michael Taylor, some wizards.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Tell them we said hi.
You guys can tell them.
You're on the speakerphone.
Oh, hello, hello.
Sorry, just talking.
Mark it.
You guys want to yell at these guys real quick?
Or does it matter?
Hey.
Happy Happy Day, gang.
Happy Happy Day, gang.
We just wanted to chime in and say hello, that we're all hanging out here in California,
having a drink and some dinner and listening to you guys.
You just wanted to rub it in.
We say how it is.
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's good, though.
Everybody does it.
I wouldn't be human if i said no awesome yo enjoy the dinner with gene is a good dinner man and you got bram there too so you must
be just poking some serious absolutely so so much alpha bear i can't even understand half of it
yeah i'm telling you i'm trying to explain it to everybody what's going on,
but I don't think anybody understands what I'm saying, man.
I think I'm just too ahead of the curve that people are going to just have to get on my level at this point.
Something like that.
Listen, we need Chia to succeed, man.
to succeed, man. If not,
If not, then the SEC wins, okay?
then the SEC wins, okay?
Then fucking BlackRock is just gonna
make us all slaves to
the dollar for the rest of our lives, man.
We need to Pandora's
box fucking
the world, okay? And she is the
only spear that we have,
so we gotta get there, man.
Nice.
We're losing control of Bitcoin, man.
That's all we got left.
Well, it ain't me no man what time is it there it's only a 7 25 so you guys are just getting started
oh yeah we've been here for a couple hours but uh yeah we're here for it
well have a good night man it's gonna be a long night Yes sir And Gene's buying so we're good
That's always fucking the best
Right on
Alright guys
Cheers J Money
See ya
You know it's always good
It's always good to You know a little jealous it's always good to uh
you know have somebody buy you a drink before they fuck yeah
but uh yeah it's crazy out there right now steve the crypto game like the crypto game is not easy
i don't think like everybody that thinks this fucking game is easy doesn't know what the fuck you're playing.
There's just a whole other...
This is not
TradFi. This is not fucking
S1 shit.
I tell
these guys in the Chia plot all the time, man.
You know you guys are the most
blessed fucking community of haters
in the entire community
of all the communities of all the different haters
because Gene and Bram literally
protect you
so blindly
and like all you guys do is
talk shit even though your guys
like views align perfectly
with them
you guys are so dumb
like you're either the fucking
you know smartest idiot on the 300th ranked fucking blockchain,
or you just got fucked by Gene and Bram when they dunk on your ass for Dunktober.
Like, there is no winning in doing what you're doing.
Like, you don't win.
You either lose or you lose.
Like, either you were a dumbass that got fucked by the 300 francs coin you know what i
mean like oh my god it's the same thing for hexagons man like you're either the fucking
smartest idiot on the 17th most popular evm or richard hart is just gonna take all your money
like there's no winning anyways it's like running in the
Special Olympics you know what I mean
if you win you're kind of still
retarded but
internet lore
I don't know we'll see how
it goes I'm still bullish on
XCH I don't know man
I think we still have a couple
swings left for CNI
but eventually they might have to change up the plan.
Like we can't just keep putting,
or can't keep trying to put square pegs in round holes.
You can't just do that forever, right?
Like, and if we're going to keep getting fucked
and we're going to keep getting pushback from the SEC,
then I think it's time the community stood up and was like,
well, listen, maybe we should try something else.
Maybe the ground-up approach is
a little better.
I don't know. That's
my view. I'm still sticking to it.
Yeah, I don't know the answer there.
They're obviously trying to
build more runway as the plane's
going down.
Yeah, that's kind of the whole thing is like yeah
they're trying to find better sailing conditions as the ship is sinking we gotta figure something
we gotta patch some holes here maybe eventually yeah so i didn't mean the plane crashing i meant
the plane like running down the building up speed down the runway to take. Oh, that's fair too. I mean,
that's a good way to look at it.
I feel like it's a little bit going the other way,
but I mean,
well,
it is.
I'm trying to be the optimistic outlook and have the plane lift and,
you know,
the positive outlook is actually fair.
That's what I was kind of talking about before,
where it's like,
we are just building runway.
Nobody is.
And it's not just CNIni i feel like there's other
players in the game it's there is bigger players in the game that it or maybe not bigger players
but equal players in this game it's not just like there's more than one whale in chia it's not just
cni at this point like let's go out here let's go look at the top accounts. I haven't even looked at this in, like, years, man.
I'm going to go to SpaceScan for the first time in probably six months.
Well, I was just on XCH.ninja,
and it looks like they've sold about almost 2.3 million XCH so far.
And then farmers,
how many have they sold?
Cause how many,
like,
I don't think far,
like to be fair,
like,
I don't think farmers are holding as much as people think.
I think they're selling.
That is probably true.
My dumb ass has been spending it on NFTs,
which was maybe not the best long-term uh plan but um yeah
i do think some people are having to flip it to uh stay afloat like uh michael taylor or whatever
yeah well that's what i mean like i don't think everybody's holding. So let's see who's the biggest holders.
We got the Chia Cold Wallet from Europe is holding 10 million, which is 30% of the supply.
We've got the North American Wallet holding another 20.
So there's 50% of the supply that is existing, not necessarily in circulation.
The existing supply is killing in those you can
consider those wallets almost like the oa if you're a hexagon those are like the wallets that
like as long as they don't hit the market they're kind of always just going to sit there uh one of
these wallets they're probably going to save i feel like they can empty one but not the other. I don't even know who the fuck this
so the third
highest holder has 2.39
I think that's the market maker
which is 7.10
7.1%
they hold 2,391,000
I mean
who's that?
That's probably that market maker, right?
Right?
So, why aren't they defending the price of XCA?
Yeah, like, that's somebody that's...
Well, I mean, how do we know they're not?
Because it's been somewhere around $10 for months and months.
Yeah.
And then...
It'll go up a little, it'll go down a little like a little like come back up a little
so after that wallet uh steve it drastically falls off the next holder the fourth holder
is the warm wallet and it only has 700 000 and it is slowly eating away at 50k at a time because
they're getting rid of it like kucoin the it's one of the biggest exchanges for Chia, only has
$353,000.
And all of these other
wallets, they only have like $100,000
max. I mean,
the whole shit, it drops off
so substantially.
HTX exchange
is determining
$24,000. so i wonder how space can is determining 24 000
oh go ahead sorry i was gonna ask if you know how space can is determining like
which which wallet is kucoin like how does he know that
does he analyze a question yeah uh yeah there would be a way to figure it out
because like htx is here
uh what else is here htx is here so people have figured it out and no sd pools on here. Who's Seb?
Sebak?
Yeah.
He's got a lot.
He does.
I'm not on the first page, I can tell you that.
It's weird, man, how this distribution works for Chia.
It's fucking insane. Chia still owns more than 50% of the supply.
I want to know who owns this 2 million, though.
Like, is that possibly, like, fucking crypto.com or something?
Like, who?
That's what I mean.
It's very close to the amount that's marked for sale on the pre-farm.
You know what I mean?
So essentially those $50,000 they've been selling each week or however often it is.
It's $2,286,325.
So that's super close to that value.
Yeah.
And then the warm wallet.
And then there's another one.
So I'm assuming that all of these wallets with like 300,000 are probably exchanges.
Like we could probably assume that everything around KuCoin is probably an exchange.
We don't know which exchange yet, but it probably is.
I bet you the one that's, I bet you number five holder is probably crypto.com or something or number six or seven sorry like one of those i
bet you is crypto.com we we just haven't figured it out yet like which one that's a good point they
have to have some because like that's where i buy online is crypto. Yeah, you could probably follow the address that you send it to.
They probably send it from that wallet address to another wallet address, and that's probably
the one that we've got to look for.
I don't know. It's definitely
to our benefit if we figure
out who the fuck these holders are.
We definitely
want names there, not XCH addresses
if possible
like it would be nice to know
who owns what because then you can kind of look at what's
going on
it's hard
yeah
I don't know if I
understand enough to be able to trace that back
but maybe I could
find my coin that I ended up
transferring out of crypto.com into my wallet and then try to follow the parent coin back, I guess.
Maybe.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
Yeah, there's a way to follow the addresses if you just figure out.
I'm not really good at block scraping either or doing any of this shit.
I just kind of look at the numbers and try to make a best-guessed opinion from what I see. It's usually the easiest way. You can kind of like look at the numbers and try to make a best guess opinion from what I see
It's usually the easiest way you can kind of tell sometimes eventually you kind of know people's addresses too
Like I know gooey's and I know everybody's got addresses you can't hide
Um, and they know mine as well, right? So
Well, you got to go for me, right?
I do. Yeah, so that's I mean mean. Usually you can track public addresses and shit,
and I keep a lot in my public addresses for
fun.
That's just to prove that I don't
sell any airdrops or anything. I just keep everything.
You know I'm a good community member.
For the most part, I have sold some coin.
I haven't looked at this
SpaceScan top chart and top
accounts in well in quite a while well like that's what i mean like so you notice how like there's a
big drop off after you get to the third and then even after you get to like the 10th or the 11th
let's see maybe top 20 no yeah so like the 14th rank holder only has 100 000 tokens that's not even a percent
i think that's what i mean like i feel like there's probably other people buying but like
they're just like you got to understand there's position there's a positional game too like
there's people probably trying to own one percent there's people probably looking to own
0.01 like there's people that are trying to hit their targets, right?
I don't have $34 million to do that.
People will keep just letting you sell until they hit their target.
And then that's when they're going to try to defend their position if they can.
Now, usually you'd want to be a fucking whale and you'd want to be able to manipulate the market.
you'd want to be a fucking whale
and you'd want to be able to manipulate the market.
Because, like, that's what it's going to take.
But, like, who's going to...
That's what I mean.
Like, who's going to buy 2 million XCH
and own 7.1% of it
and just let the token price die to zero?
Who is that fucking stupid?
Nobody, in my opinion.
So if you want to be bearish
on XCH, you should just be
bullish on that guy.
Like, you know,
like...
I don't think I would be bullish on
KuCoin exchange at all, but...
I don't know like when you have
people taking positions
like substantial positions
then
you have to be aware
of that
I hadn't been paying attention
sorry yeah we were both not
paying attention
what's up Abit
what was the number that you wanted to figure out if it is
crypto.com like was it like 2300 something like this no it was 300 000 so i don't know if you're
looking at the same thing that we are right now it'd be kind of cool if we could share screens but
uh there so the sixth ranked holder on chia is kucoin exchange with 353 092 and then there's the the fifth
ranked holder is like a xch address it's got 36 uh 365 300 i'm we're i'm kind of guessing that
like that one or the one underneath KuCoin is probably
crypto.com. I'm assuming it's one
of those top addresses.
I just heard Guise
and Tooth just recently saying that
crypto.com only has
2,300 XCH.
Really?
It was so little.
That's the number I thought I heard you saying too.
I thought I'd just come up and
tell you that this is what i heard crypto come only having like i'm gonna go look for their
account but you got to understand they might be hiding like certain accounts like that might be
their warm wallet yeah they could have more than one wallet for sure yes and that's the thing you
got to remember about this a bit when you look at it people can uh own more than one address so like
all these people that own like
a hundred thousand they could just have it in three addresses and they could really own a million
they can you can you can upskate how much you hold in your wallet very easily just by creating a
higher derivation like if i wanted to like you know hide all my honk tokens and like pretend
like i'm not a whale anymore i could easily do. Like I could just split them up into like 20 different addresses.
They'd all still be in the same wallet,
but like you,
they would just be like 10,000,
10,000,
10,000,
10,000.
So you can kind of hide a little bit,
which I think is kind of junk janky.
I'm going to go look for the crypto.com wallet I'm at.
So the.
Let's see.
We're at 390.
And they only own 3000.
Like man.
We're so early in this game.
I'm going to see if I can find crypto.com's wallet.
Because if two snows.
Then it should be marked on here.
Right?
Like how the fuck did he find that out?
Anyways, it's kind of interesting to look at the crypto side of Chia,
because a lot of people don't.
A lot of people are just kind of blinders like blinders permuto uh you know ecdcs but like the crypto side matters too like it is still a crypto and
that's what i like to kind of base my thing on is like there is still a crypto currency to be
had here it's not just fucking real world stocks and shit. It's crypto man. Like.
I don't see.
Yeah I didn't see it.
So the. Crypto.com.
Like account.
That Toose is talking about.
Is not marked on the thing.
It's probably a warm wallet.
It's probably the address.
That he sent his to. It's probably one. It's probably the address that he sent his to
or something.
Maybe
I would like to know though.
I'm like I said,
I'm always curious to know who the fuck is doing what and what's going on.
And who do I have to follow to know the real alpha here?
Like who owns
2,391,634
fucking tokens
who are you
pretty sure it's dusty
yeah it's pretty sure it's fucking dusty
it's probably Blacktron he's just fucking
flooding all of us out of our bags
it's like it's BW
free man
He fucking is just
Chase up there chasing him
He bailed
He's fucking making
Good bajillions of dollars here
He for sure bailed
Oh yeah
He even sold all his drives
Didn't just turn them off
He sold his drives
He's done
He probably came out okay
I'm sure he didn't lose.
Oh, that's what I was going to do.
I made a little counter so we can see how many hours we're into the marathon.
I'm going to post it up in the thing.
Like, man, like 99.9999999% of all the fucking holders don't even own a fucking percent.
There's only 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,
6 accounts that own a percent of the supply.
And KuCoin is one of them.
And Chia
is 1, 2, 3 of them.
Like, who owns this
365,300 tokens?
I want that.
Probably an exchange. It's got to be an exchange.
That's got to be crypto.com, I feel like.
Sure as hell ain't me.
If you want to go find my account,
I got like 4XCH in it.
That's no joke.
I got several wallets now,
but I still have my farming wallet.
I haven't switched my farm off from that same wallet.
I just have lots of liquidity tokens and positions.
I just don't have any XEH.
I'm like fucking so short of XEH all the time.
I don't understand a lot of that, but I did
let me
tell you about this token. Let me see what you think
about this. You might
tell me if I really screwed up or not.
I put
how much did I put in?
I put a bunch of
Big D into liquidity
on was it Tibet Swap, I think? big D into liquidity on
was it TibetSwap, I think?
Yep, probably.
I'm trying to see if I can find that now.
The answer is 35 hours, Steve.
Coming up on 35 hours.
What do you mean?
Space.
I didn't ask.
I posted, I made a
I made a counter.
You didn't have to ask.
I was just telling you and everyone else.
35 hours.
Yeah.
I put a counter out there so we could just watch it because i can't do math like you
evidently you can i mean we started at 11 o'clock so i mean it's but i'm in a different time zone so
actually you started 11 o'clock in my time zone. I counted mine from the kickoff.
No, actually, no.
Not from the pregame.
I didn't count from the pregame ones.
Well, it was Drax started early from his time zone.
That's why we're supposed to start at 12 Eastern,
but he started at 12 Atlantic standard.
Are you counting Mark and Ava's TLDR?
So basically we did an hour early.
So in case there's any spillover between, you know,
between different episodes
different episodes were covered. So yes, from the official,
were covered. So yes, from the
official
we're at 36.
But we're at 37 hours into 36
hour schedules.
Anyways, what you're worried about, Steve,
is called
impermanent loss.
That's what you're worried about.
So what happens is if you put Big D and XCH into a pool,
you're going to put like X, Big D,
and then you're going to put up the equivalent XCH of the price,
current price.
So what's going to happen is if people go in there and buy your Big D,
what's going to happen is if people go in there and buy your big d there you're going to get xch
you're going to get XCH.
but it's going to be kind of forever diminishing uh like the way i like to think of it is like
the last big d that you have in the pool is going to do the work of like the first 20
if you know what i mean because like if the price goes up a lot you're not
you're essentially giving up like a hundred x for like a guaranteed
5x you're just playing um both sides of the token and you're collecting fees no matter how
high or low the price is so if you like went and put all your bag in there chances are at best
you're just gonna either lose all your bag or you're going to like make a bigger bag of big d um
but it's all ratio it's like you know what i mean like that's where i was kind of talking about at
the beginning where it's like you have to put up two sides of the token yeah i've never really seen
anybody other we haven't really seen cni put up two sides of anything ever. But this is where it kind of comes down to.
So you're facilitating the market.
You're essentially lending your tokens to the market for other people to buy.
So the standard practice for liquidity is like a split.
You hold 75% of your tokens.
hold like you know 75 of your tokens you put 25 into liquidity to essentially make those other
75 of your tokens worth more okay to catch my drift yeah here's what i did i put in
well actually no i don't know that i put in i guess i'd have to go look at the transaction
but my current value of tibet dash bigD is like 908.
I guess I... Do you have 908 BigD and then how much XCH
is in there?
I can't actually
see the transaction count.
If I remember right, it was like 18
maybe?
I can't remember.
Damn, that's quite a bit.
Yeah, so what would happen is if people uh sell big d they're essentially going to eat up your xch in the pool and you're going to be
left with more big d if they buy big d you're gonna have less D, but you're going to have more XCH. But you're also collecting a small drip.
I think it's like 0.07 of fees.
I mean, I can't really tell this in my wallet, right?
I probably need to go on to TibetSwap and kind of see what the...
You'd have to look and see how much you initially put in to see what the ratio is now.
To know if it went up or down.
So, like, if you put in, say, 1, big D and then like, I don't know, say 15 XCH and then you're down to 800 big D and 18 XCH, then you would know that people are buying big D and the prices went up since you put it in because you have more XCH and less big D.
But it's probably like not so perfect because
you're also earning fees too so the idea is that like you're kind of like compounding your interest
so it could be like a little more or less too there's probably like a little bit of dust in
there somewhere a couple pennies somehow it's probably not a lot it's probably so negligible
you're not you're not as not even noticing it, but in
the more voluminous pairs
like Spacebucks and shit, you might actually
notice it a bit more.
And they're also
full of... Do you know
when you provided that liquidity?
If you just look on the chart
of Big D and you can figure
out when you started providing the liquidity,
if the price is down from that point, then you now have more Big D the chart of big D and you can figure out that when you start providing the liquidity,
if the price is down from that point, then you now have more big D and you have less XCH.
And if you hold some spot, then everything is good and you can just basically write that
LP off and just let's say, I will hold that for 10 years.
But if you have everything in LP, in my opinion, it is very crucial to find the right time
to exit this liquidity
position so that when
Big D goes up, basically
you secure your Big D position
and you don't lose it again
while the price goes up.
Yeah. It was June
19th that I
did this. June 19th.
Let's go look at the price of Big D.
Let's go help out Steve.
Is the price lower today?
That's a good question.
I don't know.
I have to go look.
I'm looking at the value in Sage.
It says 201 USD dollars is what it's worth.
And on SpaceScan, when I clicked through the coin and found the coin or whatever, it says $72.38.
So that's $130 different, or $128.
Let's see, I've got to find it. It's way down there.
Jesus, I didn't think it was that far i don't i don't understand like i did this one i guess as a is as a way to to learn but i don't i don't know if i understand enough to try to do this kind of
thing again you definitely want to learn it it's one of them it's like one of the
triple threats like steve if you can run a farm learn how to provide like it i mean it sounds
like a fucking foreign language but if you can really nail this home you will become so much
more profitable it is like really the bread and butter. It's like, think of your farm on steroids.
It's like, okay, here's proof of big D.
So let's look at the yearly chart.
I guess if you're running a little bit blind
because you don't have a number of APY anywhere
or you also do not have a button that you can click
to harvest your coins, you know, both sides.
And that's why I totally like the liquidity providing on here
because it's so real, you know, you don't have math boards
and everything that you earn compounds directly into your position.
And I think you also earn like quite a lot,
like Futsu was just saying, 0.7, which in the EVM world,
it's like four times less, you you know but it's always a very long
term play and especially because the volume is so low on meme coins on share what is it maybe
50 per week or you know 300 per week like the volume is just not enough unfortunately for you
to have like significant fees coming in from that liquidity position. But I think you did very well, just like trying it out.
And then we in the Tanging, for example, we like using EVMs for liquidity providing
because there we have the APY that we can see is at 5% or is at 50%.
On Merkle, we are doing like even 100% or 200%.
And we also have this button that we can click where we have our liquidity position
and all the fees accumulate basically not into the position but like next to it and you just see
okay today i earned three dollars or the entire month i earned a hundred dollars you know it just
gives you a little bit more of an idea of how much are you actually making with this position
versus on sheer it is just compounding
into your position just through the impairment loss you basically never really know um how much
did i make but unfortunately i know it cannot be much because there's like not no no volume really
on our meme coins on chia yeah it's pretty rough out there for meme coins on chia but like steve
like i said once chia kind of comes to this level where you can see all of this stuff happening,
I feel like we're getting really, really close.
You'll understand it a lot more because it'll be way more in your face.
Like I had to go to the EVM to learn this.
Like I learned pretty much doing this on Pulse Chain.
pulse chain you know what i mean like um because it's all they do um but like if you can learn how
You know what I mean?
Like because it's all they do.
this works you'll be you will be a master at your own craft at this point like not only will you not
only will you be able to have your uh hardware work for you but you will be able to take that
hardware and double down on the xch and have your XCH work for you as well.
And you'll just be, it'll be like compounding your gains. Like, okay, I'm taking, you know, $10 or $20 a day in Chia, you know, or like I'm winning a block a day, whatever.
So I'm getting $10 a day.
I can put five of that into liquidity and then I can make another like $2.50 off of it.
So really now you're earning $12 and fifty cents instead of ten dollars you know
what i mean like it and the the gains are exponential because you can go and take those
fees and just kind of diversify and kind of spread out your pairs and become less uh dependent on
just the price of chia because you're now you're you're gaining like
revenue right so you're essentially using your chia as a hedge on just earning you know passive
income for you basically and you can just collect all those fees and just put them off to the side
too like you don't have to buy anything with them like you can just put it all into usd at the end of the day and just save up your usd for like the right time to move like a lot of
people like to say oh it's like timing it's time in the market not timing the market but a lot of
it is timing the market like once you spend enough time in the market you realize that you need to
time the market so it's like kind of like a catch-22 where you have to
kind of understand how both work right because that's like you're at like basically the the joy
or sorrow that you feel in a token is 100 relative to your entry and your exit if you enter a token
and it goes down and then you exit you just lost if you enter a token and it goes down and you don't
do anything and then it goes back up over your thing then you won right so it's all just kind
of relative to when you get in and when you get out so you said something about fees is like i've
not done anything with this in three months do i need to be going out and like collecting fees or
are you just saying that no so on chia you don't need to so with tibet swap it does it
all automatically so every time somebody trades it just throws it into your thing so you don't
know necessarily where you're at because like uh mojus was saying there's impermanent loss too like
you could be losing more tokens than you're really earning because there's not a lot of trading going
on but in high volume environments you essentially are using the fees to
compensate your impermanent loss right so if you can have like two thousand dollars of liquidity
make you fucking ten thousand dollars equivalent fees then you're actually making you know what i
mean like there's there's definitely a way to do it it's a little bit like i i could probably go
go over it with you a little bit more detail in the DMs one day,
but kind of show you what I'm looking at and show you,
kind of go over what Mojus is talking.
Didn't Tang Gang have like a for dummies kind of thing on this,
like on the website?
Yeah, I think, actually, I think Abit's the guy that made it.
I need to go study some of that.
It's the guy that made it. I need to go like study some of that. It's worth it.
Like I said,
like it's just another way for you to learn how to essentially make a
revenue,
right?
Like you don't want to go put all your bags into it,
but like you definitely want to consider putting a portion of it in.
Cause it will,
the idea is that like,
if say we all put in like 25 of our bag
into liquidity it makes these 75 of all of our bags more valuable and it thickens the pot it
makes it harder to move the price it makes it harder for cni to do what they're doing and you
know what i mean like um i love to say that like the best homework that you could do in crypto is go
watch like a david attenborough fucking documentary on like the ocean and just like apply that to
crypto figure out what size of fish that you are and swim like that fish and like you might be a
different size fish in every market but like if you figure out kind of
how to play then you will honest to god do better than yourself like a lot of people love to watch
those like documentaries and it's like man like these fish just ball up they're so fucking dumb
like why wouldn't why would they all do that but like if you're a small fish in the ocean, it's the best defense you got, right?
Like, you swim with the shoal because like, you're more powerful together.
You just kind of hope you don't get caught into the bait wall, essentially, right?
Because that's how you get trapped by the sharks and the whales and all that shit, right?
Like, so like, but like, the whole idea is if we swim together, we're way stronger than
if we swim alone, right?
So that's kind of the point
yeah i think i think there's some huge risks though with it right like if you think there's
gonna be a huge price swing then you don't want yeah then you don't want to be providing liquidity
and permanent loss will drill you but that's what i mean dusty like you don't want to put all your
bag in like if you if you understand that you're holding like 75 of your overall
holdings and you're only really giving up 25 but like that that like sacrifice of the 25
you know and like even then you still might make money on it like it's just not going to be like
your you're just going to get the other suicide bag kind of deal right like yeah i mean this is
probably the biggest reason why there's not a whole lot of liquidity right
like the majority of the folks that have in chia are farmers and they're not everyone just holds
yeah right yeah they don't yeah they don't get it that like you you can take your part of your bag
and you can like make more money with it and you can defend your position like if you're validating
a network you should be providing liquidity for it because you're literally you got to defend yourself right you got to defend your your your investment and that's what i've
been kind of talking about the whole night is like eventually somebody on this goddamn blockchain is
gonna have to defend their investment and it's not going to be cni i think because they have
obviously proven that they don't give a fuck.
Or maybe they do.
I don't know.
We can talk about conspiracy theories all night, right?
I think they just view the ledger part of it of like,
how did they make this business?
And cryptocurrency seems to be the best choice.
Like they could have just created a business and not gunless on what crypto
wrote um so it's been a huge uphill battle for them but yeah i guess i've never got on board
with the liquidity and i'm you know super early farmer right i was like almost two percent entire
network when we launched so i was like yeah i've been farming for since day one.
And for me, I've just, you know, I've been at Bitcoin for, you know, almost since it launched.
And then I came into Chia and I've just never agreed with it.
Also, as a U.S. citizen, it's different because it's an actionable event.
I know in Canada, it's a little bit different, but I know Steve lives.
I just don't claim it.
I'm probably sure I got to pay tax on it, but I don't have that. You know what the downfall?
You know what the really big downfall of that is?
Let's say Chia goes to something crazy.
Let's say $1,000 a coin.
And you want to sell that and you have to go.
You're then going to create a taxable event.
Obviously, when you go sell it, you get taxed on it.
And that's where by not claiming it
and not showing that you have holdings and not doing that,
that becomes a big issue.
In the States, you can go back five years
and you can adjust, right?
If you're an American and you haven't claimed it, you can go back five years and do can adjust right if you're an american and you haven't claimed it you can go
back five years and do those adjustments and and better to do it now and have taxation on ten dollar
chia than to be taxed on thousand dollar chia
i'm burned either way i live in canada come on man yeah i know there's not really much if i lived in
the states i i feel like there'd be so much better avenues for me to go.
But like in Canada, man, do you think I trust my government?
Let's be honest here.
What are you talking about?
I don't disclose as much as I can, man.
It's better to earn for it's better to be a millionaire and pay yourself $40,000 here
than it is to not like if anything, like I feel like I'm going to be transferring a lot of my shit to a private company so that I can hide my own public.
You know what I mean?
I'll pay the business taxes as opposed to the personal taxes.
We're just not quite at that point yet.
Yeah.
Eventually it's all going to the business.
But now would be a good time to to to claim it right like
now yeah right because then well i don't remember it is for can i mean from canadian i just
i've been back i haven't worked in canada almost well actually over a decade now but like down in
the states like you you should be claiming everything um Because if it gets to that point,
like I got burned the other way a long time ago.
Just not going through all those steps.
And then my account was like,
hey, you got to do this.
We got to do some changes and cost money.
It was a couple thousand bucks to pay it.
But at some point,
you've got that historical information that you can provide.
When you go back to IRS and let's say, again, something crazy happens in the price and you're like, oh, cool.
Maybe I want to go sell it or convert it to something else.
Then you can do so.
Then you show that your holdings have been there for a long time.
And then you have a...
