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3.16 IS HERE! THORSday with Chad Barraford!
Recorded: March 5, 2026 Duration: 1:39:21Space Recording
Full Transcription
for the show live stream it's time for the live stream you guys and allow some time for people to
join the live stream it is happening it is thursday unfortunately kenton he's i think he's
gotten a point with his gynecologist or something i don't know he can't make it to this live stream
but don't worry i will carry the torch for for Kenton and we will deliver a good show
We're gonna do it you guys. Are you guys ready for the introduction? Let's it get it going right now, okay?
You guys for those who haven't heard the good word Thor chain is the world's leading Bitcoin decks
You can swap Bitcoin with 10 different blockchains across 40 different pools
without using bridges or wrap tokens. Check it out at swap.thorchain.org. That is swap.thorchain.org.
Anyone in the world can use Thorchain. There is no account open. No KYC is required. Thorchain has
two tokens, Rune and Tcy. The fees for swapping on thor chain are paid in rune and that's where the yield
comes from the fees are deducted from the swap so you don't need to own root to trade on thor chain
that is a great design decisions you guys and also there are no inflationary block rewards
therefore the yield is real money paid by real users rune is also currently deflationary with
five percent of revenue being burned thor chain is-layer one with the ability to create smart contracts on it,
similar to Ethereum.
This is the app layer,
and it's being developed by Rijira.
If you need help with ThorChain in general,
join the ThorChain community Discord and Telegram group.
Links are for those who are on ThorChain.org.
Please follow ThorChain on Facebook and Instagram
and ThorChain Contact on TikTok.
We need 1,000 followers to livestream on those platforms. Please follow them, you guys, so we and ThorChainContact on TikTok. We need 1,000 followers to live stream on those platforms.
Please follow them, you guys, so we can get this show on there as well.
And always remember, guys, this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only.
It does not constitute financial investment or legal advice.
With that out of the way, you guys, the show has started.
Chad Bareford, how you doing, man?
Good, man. It's been a week since I've seen you.
It has been a week. It's been a long week, and a lot of things have happened.
3.16 is, like, happening now or something, right?
Yeah, I think it's probably already, I don't know.
It's in process. It's somewhere there.
Right, yeah. And I think there is 96 PRs on 3.16.
Yeah, it's a lot.
It's a lot.
It's almost too many, actually.
Yeah.
It's almost too much.
I've actually, like, we've actually had to, so, like, almost a little less than half of that is from Huguen.
So, Huguen's just generating, like like tons of PRs and it's like
predominantly Hugin is really just kind of raising the code quality,
finding things and like just kind of raising it a bit. And so it's gotten to
be like just too many PRs coming in at the devs and you know so we're starting
to like have Hugin just automatically just take 10 PRs, oh sorry 10 issues and
like just generate like one PR that has like
addressing 10 things to like batch it so that we can we can move faster, you know, and have
Huguen's, you know, contributions move a little bit quicker, you know? Right. But yeah, a bunch of
things added like usually obviously like a pretty large PR, large release for the most part, but
yeah, it's nice. I'm'm excited for it is this a record
96 you think you have any idea on that i mean i've i would be shocked if it was was not yeah
at least in maybe maybe it was uh in the early early days when we could just like ship code and
move fast and break things in like the you know in the early early early days right but we also move we
move a lot slower today intentionally so we want to move faster but we also want to move slower at
the same time it's kind of a weird kind of paradox in some ways but like but yeah it's probably the
largest release we've ever had in terms of like number of prs maybe not the largest in terms of
like code like number like number of lines added or something like this, or additions or deletions.
But nonetheless, it's a big release. There's a lot of things happening in it for sure.
And I saw some names I hadn't really recognized on the GitLab.
Do we have some new developers working? Or maybe I just haven't noticed their names before.
Do you have any insight on that?
No, we do. We have some new devs.
You guys know I've been looking to hire and i've been interviewing uh especially hired three new people uh one two are devs and one's in biz dev so uh the devs are i don't want
to like dox them because you know i'll let them dox themselves if they choose to dox themselves but
um one is a person that's been working with
cosmos since like 2021 i think it is or 2020 whatever something like that uh old cosmos
developer they're just starting this week this is their first week so they got to learn our code
base our you know process procedures so it's going to take them some time to kind of ramp up
It's going to take them some time to kind of ramp up, but they're starting with just code reviews.
And then the other one is a person named Sly from the Maya team.
That's his Discord handle.
And so he's coming over full time, which is great because our code base is big,
and it does take a while to wrap your brain around it.
And to have somebody join the team who already
has the knowledge of the code base itself and already knows you know the the the woes of running
a mainnet you know production environment and the things how things can and might go wrong and you
know all that kind of stuff like it's almost impossible to hire for because who how many
people know how to run like a thor chain network you know
in the world like it's not many for obvious reasons so i was super excited to get somebody
who has like how already has that experience and knowledge like underneath their belt they've been
working with part of the maya team for a couple years now so i was very excited to get get them
get them in the door and so they're already contributing they're actually bringing some maya
code that they did on their side just kind of porting it kind of backporting if you want to call it that
into the thor thor chain code base which is great you know a lot of like good additions
being right off the bat right which is fantastic uh so we have two new developers they're both
full-time which is great and then we hire a new uh biz dev i mean this person uh has been doing
biz dev i think 28 years so they've been around for
quite a while uh doing this kind of work obviously like a seasoned person um and they've been in
crypto i think for like seven years or eight years something like that so they're not new to crypto
by any stretch um and i'm really excited to stay some like some fresh pair eyes you know we've had
been doing biz dev you know uh for the
past few years and to give somebody in who's been doing this for decades like almost three decades
and to breathe some fresh air into the and have a new pair of eyes to look at things differently
and kind of use their their background their experience to really improve in some things
him and i were talking about um doing some like conferences together and maybe getting like
a booth you know at like at some I don't know token 2049 possibly maybe get a booth meet some
people shake some hands answer some questions get some business cards or whatever it is and start
kind of growing that the business development of our our you know organization our product uh more and kind of you know really put some effort i'm
gonna try to do some more like some some public speaking if i can you know do some talks whatever
just again just getting the the thort chain name out there get people kind of talking about you
know what it is we're doing all that kind of stuff so we have some some big additions into the team
recently this this past week,
which is very exciting to have.
I'm looking forward to see what happens over the next few months.
I think that's great that you get out there.
That's where you excel, man.
You've just got away with speaking,
especially on crowds of crypto conferences.
And I think Kenton will get really excited to hear that
because he would love to take little snips
and market the hell out of all these various things that you would do, man.
So I'm sure he'll be super happy to hear that.
Yeah, no, I haven't done it in a long time, and I've grown to love it over the years.
I remember that kind of a little funny story.
I went to, I forget which conference it was, a couple of years ago, and I went with a friend of mine.
But I didn't even buy a ticket to the the conference for some reason just because I'm dumb and so I was in line and to buy
a ticket or something like this with my friend and then the guy who runs the
conference happened to walk by and he goes hey like aren't you like Chad
bear from like oh yeah yeah he's like oh you're like the co-founder of Thornton
I said yeah and he goes we actually had like a last minute dropout.
Can you just like fill?
Can you just fill?
I think it was like 30 minutes and like this.
Awesome.
Almost like zero.
I'm like, yeah, I don't even have a ticket.
Can I get a ticket to the conference?
He's like, absolutely.
So I did like a 30 minute talk.
I think it was like on like what real yield really is and
Yeah, I didn't obviously didn't plan it or whatever
It just kind of got up there and just spieled for 30 minutes and my buddy was who's very critical like a very critical friend of mine
He's like that's probably the best cryptop talk I've ever seen
And usually he's like super negative they're not negative but he's like
very like you know antagonist you know about everything he's kind of like bearish bearish
on all things in general and it was very very nice of him to say them like that well what's
the cool thing about thor chain is when you because i just got off the uh crypto quorum dash i just
did a space with them and thank you guys for attending that as well before the show but uh
it's you know we followed the first principles chad like you know we don't want any third-party dependencies this is
the real layer one it's on the chain like this is what we've always wanted to build this is the
future and thor chain my protocol of course we are building that in real time and so like whenever
someone comes with their project it's it's not too hard to juxtapose and say, well, listen, I think some shortcuts were taken here.
You know what I mean?
If you believe decentralization, if you believe in permissionlessness,
door chain is the way.
And it's just so easy to riff.
I mean, it's just endless.
That's the cool thing.
Yeah, I was actually just talking to somebody earlier today.
I'm not going to say who that person is quite yet, but they came to me and they wanted – they have a cryptographer, a really great cryptographer on staff at their organization.
And they said that they had figured a way to add privacy on top of ThorChain so that you could trade cross-chain with privacy.
I haven't seen the details yet i asked this person to send me the like got the white paper or whatever so i can actually see like how
it works and you know blah blah and all this kind of stuff but like uh we were talking about this
and i kind of mentioned it's like like thor chain's like the perfect because i want to do like a
cross-chain you know privacy blah blah thing and and I said like well ThorChain is like your home base then because like every other
every other competitor out there uh whether it be Chainflip or Nier or like whatever um all kind of
you know aren't so cyberpunkish in their in their stance you know where I mean I'm a very pro privacy
person I think a lot of our people our community are community are. I don't know if that's going to happen.
That may not even happen.
It's early conversations
and I might just pass on
just because I don't like the invitation details.
It was kind of a fun and interesting topic.
We haven't spoken
that much. I remember
JP in the early days and I, this is like in
2019, we were discussing the idea
of implementing privacy
on top of ThorChance so you could like, you know,
obscure the to and the from address more or less
in the trade or swap.
Ended up just being more complicated
than it was really worth at that particular time.
We were already trying to build the entire protocol
from scratch, you know, at that time.
So it was like, there's already a lot of work to be done.
Not to mention that I'm not a cryptographer.
I'm not an expert in this kind of stuff.
So I thought I might be punching above my weight class in that particular way. So we
ended up not doing it. Plus, I was concerned about changing the incentives of running a validator,
right? Because running a validator now, you do it now because you want to make money. That's
probably the number one reason why you do it, right? But as soon as you do, you add, you know, encryption in the middle of it.
Well, now there's incentive to be a validator.
Because being a validator might mean that you can see, you know, what's being transferred to where and get that information.
And all of a sudden, you know, three-character federal organizations might be interested in running a node or two.
Not for financial gain, because I don't give a shit.
They're more interested just to be able to track money flow in one direction or the other.
So we ended up not doing it primarily for that reason at that particular time,
although that was years ago.
That was like six, seven years ago, so it's a while back.
But I'm open to discussing it or at least entertaining the notion of it
and seeing if it's a good fit for
for the team but of course that would require an adr and like you know community conversations and
voting and all that kind of stuff yeah of course and uh for the for guys who're not sure you know
chad barefoot talked about this length on the last thursday you know adding privacy is something i
think the vast majority of our community wants but it's very very hard you know for many reasons for
one thor chain has to guarantee solvency right Like if you're sending out funds and not receiving assets, it's not good.
And so, you know, I think, I believe Chad, you said, you know, you've said many times,
I'm not a cryptographer. And, you know, it's hard to figure out like XMR, for example,
ring signatures and memo size and all this stuff, right? It's really complicated.
But I think what's really cool, Chad, is at least we get a legit like cryptographer, an expert.
That's the first step of just like him pointing out.
And then you guys put your experience together and then maybe we can make a client, a chain client baby here.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now we're also talking to that same cryptographer about doing like DKLS for us and moving us off of the gg20 into a newer safer more verifiably secure
uh cryptography to secure all the assets on our you know on our network right because you said
on the last show that gg20 is probably not ideal uh for for adding some privacy chains right uh
yeah i don't think it actually works with Monero specifically.
There might be a way to get it to work to hack it together.
I don't know.
Again, this is not my field of expertise.
I think when ThorChain first started to try what it is doing now back in 2018,
that's like the earliest form of it.
But at that time, that was pre-Cosmos
SDK that was before you know GG18 was even out yet uh and so like the technology of cryptography
and the the framework for building a blockchain just wasn't mature enough to even support something
about ThorChain and so that attempt in 2018 was not a successful one. And then once Cosmos 60K came out and GG18 came out, and I had joined the team in 2019,
and then we did a new kind of, you know, Phoenix attempt to rebuild again,
and obviously it worked that time for obvious reasons.
And we moved from GG18 to GG20, but both of those cryptographies were very new at that time,
and they had some issues with them um but like nothing too significant too significant
but thankfully the the world of cryptography has been advancing and you know making it uh
mathematical advancements in the space with newer cryptographies like you know frost for example
and other ones like i think chain flip uses frost if i'm not mistaken that didn't even exist you
know back in 2019 or 2020
when we were actually building and designing this entire protocol
and inventing the idea of cross-chain liquidity, cross-chain swaps.
So things have changed a lot in the years,
and so we should stay on the edge when we can
and move to technologies that are safer and more advanced in one form or another.
I love it. I love it. And before I forget, I just want to welcome the new developers who are currently on ThorChain.
We probably wouldn't remain pseudo-anonymous, but welcome aboard.
Super happy to have you and really look forward to what you can do.
And speaking of that, we do have a question in the audience.
They just want to know what will the biz dev do?
So maybe we can break down for people who don't know the purpose.
Okay.
Well, and so I'll start high and then work my way low.
So biz dev is short for business development.
And so what that person generally does is creates relationships
and partnerships with other entities or projects out there.
So that would be like wall integrations new
chains that we want to integrate into ThorChain by building that relationship
connections you know that kind of thing it could be integrating with sexes
potentially it could be helping us with you know going to conferences to meet
other booths like go up to another booth and say oh hey what do you guys work on
you're a wallet you do this like do you want to do cross-chain swaps or whatever?
Oh, that sounds good. And you kind of have that kind of foster interest and relationships with those people.
And then you get them to integrate, you know, ThorChain for more swap, you know, volume that's passing through us.
So the biz dev at a high level is really just trying to create more relationships and partners with other projects and ecosystems
to foster more relationships, more volume,
more fee collection, all that kind of stuff.
Perfect. Awesome.
Well, there you go, guys.
Thank you for the question.
We ought to remember some people may not know what that is,
so I do appreciate that one question.
So, okay.
So very exciting.
Everyone's super pumped up about what's coming.
The volume on ThorChain has been really
great, by the way. We are approaching a $100 million day, lots of big swaps. And it's been
tremendous. I've been looking at all the various groups and side channels and people are just
feeling really good, Chad. And especially like you coming up here and saying we've got some more
developers, we've got this potential cryptographer coming in like i think this is the time where we just gotta just go i mean we've been going for six years let's be real
but but man it's it's everyone's feeling really really good i'm definitely seeing that so yeah
you're doing you're doing the right stuff man yeah no i appreciate it i'm i'm trying to take a uh
a stronger more more leadership role within the team and and kind of like steer this ship, you know,
in the right direction as best as I can to, you know,
give better volumes and better integrations
and better this and better that
and just trying to improve, like, increase the swap volume
and efficiency and like all those things
that I'm constantly trying to think about,
trying to improve.
Which, by the way way now that 316
is adopted we can probably flip on rapid swaps pretty soon um we'll probably flip it on like i'm
looking at a low level if i if i can use that word um just to kind of test it out and be slow about
its adoption and that's his problem with it we can always just flip it off it's not like a big deal
um so that's probably going to be flipped on in the next week or two possibly um and we can always just flip it off it's not like a big deal um so that's probably going to be flipped on
in the next week or two possibly um and we can start seeing like much faster uh uh swap times
which would be fantastic because if we can get faster swap times we get more competitive on the
swap kit side of things like the faster your trades are it can give you a little bit of an edge you
know for being the recommended swap for swap kit so if we can improve that and get better efficiency i mean that would obviously be you know spectacular
absolutely yeah that's and as chad said guys like when a lot of decks aggregators like swap kit and
others they factor in time so let's say thor chain has a better price execution but if if another
competitor could do it like 80 or 90 faster right we're much slower they might get that swap but if another competitor can do it like 80 or 90% faster, right, we're much slower, they might get that swap.
But if we're excellent price execution and faster, well, then there you go.
We're going to win the whole thing.
Exactly.
They have a whole mathematical kind of algo.
And I've seen it myself.
I've seen the details of it.
I know how it works, which is why I've been kind of pushed for faster trades.
I know it's good to have faster trades in general.
You don't need an excuse to do it necessarily.
It's just a better experience.
But that's been one of the drivers of it too,
is just to get more of the volume out of SwapKit that we can get
and other competitors as well.
Yeah, absolutely.
Awesome.
Very cool.
Okay, so we have 3.16.
It's being launched, I think, literally right now.
Nodes will start to adopt the new version.
I believe the time's like, I think it was maybe at the start of the show.
It just happened since. I can't remember.
But soon, very soon.
So, okay, let's transition to Hugin here.
So have you made any advances to Hugin?
We've got to talk about Hugin.
That's just mandatory.
Everyone wants to know about Hugin.
So have we made any advances to Hugin? We've got to talk about Hugin. That's just mandatory. Everyone wants to know about Hugin. So have we made any advancements there?
Do you have more tokens,
or are you being more efficient with those tokens?
Let's go on.
Yeah, so I've actually run out of tokens,
so I had to turn Hugin off today.
He's kind of like,
so he's taking a little bit of a nap.
I literally didn't run out of tokens, and I can't even use my own Claude account anymore.
Not until later today.
I think it comes back on around, like, 10 p.m. or whatever the hell the number is.
But, like, yeah, so he's been using a lot.
I've actually, I started to, he's, like, generating, I like how I use the word he, as if it's like a he.
But, but, you can, is generating enough issues, like GitLab issues, the things that it's finding that it has interest to fix, that it's more than what the developers can actually approve.
Right.
It's, it's moving faster than we can move, which is non-surprising because, you know, AI is really fast and humans are relatively speaking kind of slow. Plus you
need like multiple humans to be a part of that process. But, and so I'm kind of having to change
the way it searches for new issues and just kind of pause. When we already have like so many issues
to work on, it doesn't make sense to keep on building a larger list and consuming more tokens that could be used for other purposes.
So I've changed that so that hopefully I won't run out next week.
We're probably going to flip on Huguen to do code reviews by default pretty soon.
I've been kind of trialing it on my own PRs for here and there, which is pretty nice. That would be flipped. And
then after that, I think the next major thing that I can think of at least is mainnet monitoring
or mainnet watching, or if you want to call it that. And that's actually going to be really,
really hard. The more I think about it, the more technically complex it becomes. And that's
going to require a lot more engineering effort than than I thought it was gonna be initially at least but that is gonna be something I
want to be doing you know in the next I don't know probably three months it'll
take me a while to get there cuz I can't work on Hugen like full-time because I
got you know actually a job and work to do and I'm already fairly strapped for
time as is without trying to build something on the side,
but it's worth the extra effort for Hugen.
He just does so much.
At this point, Hugen's probably the most productive developer we have on the team
in a literal sense, or pretty close to it at least.
So it's been very, very helpful to have him in the system.
Yeah, absolutely.
And with those new developers coming online,
will they be also helping to review the code changes?
Because that's the bottleneck, right?
It's just codes?
Yes.
Okay.
Reviewing is like the kind of the biggest bottleneck now.
I kind of want to have a conversation with my developers
of like setting priorities of like,
priority one is like mainnet related things,
problems, bugs, you know, whatever's happening that's like actually affecting production.
Number two is code reviews and unblocking your fellow developers, which includes you.
And number three is like your own code, like whatever it is that you're working on or something you're trying to achieve.
Like you should always focus on unblocking your colleagues first before doing your own work.
I used to have like a hook when I used to work for a different company way back when.
I had a hook in my editing that I could not push code while somebody else was waiting for me to review their thing.
It just forced me, like, you have to, if you want to move forward and you're the thing that you're doing you have to go over there and like review this other person's you know pr
and comment or approve or whatever it is um and i i really like that back in the day that's a bit
like it's a bit like kind of a hard edge uh more than most developers would probably kind of
subscribe to but it worked very well for me
and it ensured that I was a very effective member of the team
and I was continuously staying on top of, you know,
unblocking everybody else from the work that they're trying to achieve.
But also getting my work done too, of course, at the same time.
But, like, it was – I think –
I don't know if I can do that right now with a developer.
I don't want to be that, like, managerial
and, like, micromanage
people in that kind of way, but I do want to think more about how we can get our developers
even more engaged on the review process to make it even faster.
Yeah, I mean, if that's the bottleneck and that's what's necessary, I mean, yeah,
it totally makes sense. But you said they're just starting out, so you're...
I do think that Huguen will help in this regard because once we turn Huguen on by default for code reviewing all new PRs, Huguen will find things before I –
Huguen will look at that PR before I look at that PR, right? fix or whatever things that it finds so that when I do my review there's statistically speaking
there's less things for me to find and there's less likely that I'm going to have like comments
you know because it's already been fixed by Huguen by some extent and therefore the time it takes to
like the mean time to merge a PR should come down by just by default because uh hugan will already have told the the author of
that pr of the potential issues so that when i review i'll be more inclined i'm more likely to
just hit approve rather than comment and say change this change that or at least be like
less comments at the very least so they're so they can they can address those comments faster
you know if they address those comments faster.
If they address two comments versus 10 comments, it's a lot faster for two, of course.
So I'm presuming that Hugen will actually just naturally speed up that process on its own just by being a contributor.
And of course, Hugen's going to get smarter and better at that time, right?
As the models get better, as I make tweaks and improvements to the prompt and, you know, building new skills
into the system so that it can more intelligently understand our code base and the kind of nuances
of it.
So that like Hugin will get better at reviewing code over time.
And arguably there will come a time where it's like just as good, if not better than
I am.
So by the time that I get to the PR, it's like it's already been addressed all the problems that I would have found anyway.
And it's just me there find that it's still good.
And I hit the approve button and like, you know, off we go.
Yeah, yeah.
To me, this is one of those things that just happens occasionally in Thor Chain where something just out of the left field just kind of busts out of the bushes and Hugin
is one of those things and I am
still surprised that you did this, you started
this in late December, it just
returned March and it's already having such
an incredible impact on the...
It's fast, isn't it? It's crazy.
It's crazy. And you're
this fast and you're just starting
to use it, right? Like you guys have already...
So, you know, when you start using a new primitive, like AI to help with this code,
like you gotta, you gotta learn how to do it too.
But even still just starting out how much faster this is,
it's just, it's so impressive to me. That's, uh, it's,
makes my brain so happy. Um, yeah.
Just wait, give it like, give it like a year, right. Um, you know,
Opus five comes out, Opus six or whatever the hell the numbers want to be.
Give it a year.
And it's going to be so much better and so much more useful.
Like, I'm still trying, like, in effect, I'm trying to replace myself with the best that I can.
Right.
Right.
Even like, I was talking to somebody, one of the developers the other day,
and we have the node launcher, which is the code base of how to run a validator node with all the chain daemons and all this kind of stuff.
And we have to constantly maintain those chain daemons.
Like, you know, a new version of Gaia comes out, a new version of Bitcoin comes out, a new version of whatever.
And we have to release a new, you know, helm chart that, you know, allows nodes to update the latest version of Gaia or whatever.
Gaia or whatever. And maybe Hugen can do that. Maybe Hugen can autonomously find and when the
And, you know, maybe Hugin can do that.
new packages are released from the official repository, we just have Hugen generate that
for us. And then that way we can just be a lot quicker in that regard too. There's going to come
a time in our future where none of the developers are going to be writing any code. And we're just
going to be reviewing code and just kind of like shepherding things in the right direction.
And then there's going to be another time later in the future where that's not even going to be required anymore.
We're probably at least five years away from that, if not 10, so it's pretty far off into the future.
I mean, we've been very, very confident of AI to get to that place.
I have to be very confident of it, and I am
nowhere close to that.
But for the time being, even if it's just like
AI just does 100%
of the coding, which is
totally practical and possible
that we can get to that place within the next
12 months or maybe two years,
that'd be pretty remarkable.
And at that point, Chad,
just envision that.
Isn't that technically mission complete for ThorChain?
Like 10 years from now,
Chad Bareford's got some gray right here.
You know what I mean?
He stands back.
I already got a little gray.
Yeah, me too.
And he stands back and we've got AI.
Because one of the base things that you said
back in 2020, 2021,
the first things I ever heard you say
is that no third party contingencies.
And if you want to get a little philosophical about it, humans are kind of a third party to ThorChain.
They are still, you know, ThorChain's strong because our community's strong.
We have really good people on this, you know, good developers, good node operators.
But that human element is still sort of, I guess you could say, an attack vector.
But if we're able to fully remove that, I think we're done. It's easy to consider any human, including myself for that matter, to be an attack vector. But if we're able to fully remove that, I think we're done.
It's easy to consider any human,
including myself for that matter,
to be an attack vector.
Either because I'm being negligent
or I'm just making a bug or whatever.
That's totally possible.
I make mistakes.
I'm a human, right?
Or maliciously.
There's an intent to actually steal funds,
blah, blah, blah.
So obviously we have protections against that for obvious reasons.
But I'm sure Huguen will play a larger role to be an adversarial check on us.
I actually was thinking about this last week.
I want to create within Huguen an ability to look for new code changes that are malicious in intent.
Within Hugen an ability to look for new code changes that are like malicious in intent, right?
And then create a pull request, or merge request rather, where I'm trying to steal funds from the network.
Right.
Like, I'm going to create a malicious code change just to see if Hugen, you know, catches me.
Like, I'm just going to create a code change that like mints 100 million rune into a wallet or something like this.
I don't know.
Something malicious like this.
And then just like open it up and see if I can get it through pass Hugen or not.
You know, something like this.
I think that's pretty kind of like fascinating.
And also like making sure that like no developer can, you know, mess around with the build, you know,
and change some of the code in the build that nobody's aware of.
Obviously, there's protections against that right now, but I'm always looking for ways of improving that
to make it even more secure, you know, in that kind of way.
So I definitely wanted to build that into Huguen 2 to be a, you know, detector of malicious human activity,
you know, me being an example in this case, to stop people like me from from doing something bad.
That's actually a really I'm really glad that's a really good idea because, you know, I'm not an expert on language learning models or anything like this.
But it just when you look at Hugo, when it interacts with you guys, it's it's very it's very agreeable.
Right. Whenever you say something to it like, no, do this. It says, wise counsel.
Oh, wise one, you know, we should do this. Would it do that if you if you try to say like, actually, no, do this, it says, wise counsel, oh, wise one, you know, blah, blah, blah, we should do this.
Would it do that if you try to say, like, actually, no,
this 100 million rune mint is okay?
Like, you know, I'm assuming you would try to keep Agnet,
and if it was just persistent, like, no, this is bad, no, this is bad,
this is bad, then mission complete.
That's going to be part of the test, right, is to do that.
Yeah, I'll get to that one day.
That's kind of like a lower priority.
It's kind of a fun, interesting idea. But I think it's nice to do it just to protect
the protocol another layer of protection right like protection should own
security and protection should always be like an onion should be layered and you
should have multiple kind of gates along the way you don't want to have like a
single gate like you want as many gates as you can manufacture to ensure the
safety of you know
the network or the assets or whatnot and that's this would just be another kind of layer we're
just throwing in the middle there just to make it another layer of protection well said um we have
breaking news everybody i'm gonna go put it on the show screen here solana is going back it has been
signing has been activated.
So I don't know if trading is live yet, but that's, you know,
we're going to be hopefully seeing that soon.
I had to check.
But you guys always remember, you know, 3.16 is being pushed.
You know, it's going live.
Always be vigilant.
We fixed some bugs.
Chad Barefoot did.
You know, there's a new chain.
Always be on the lookout for abnormal behavior.
But very exciting.
Very cool.
It just happened on the show. So I love it. love yeah so solana is a very different chain for us um
it's not an evm kind of fork like like you know like a lot of things are it's not a utxo fork
like a lot of things are it's an entire new uh chain client that's written from scratch up it's
our first eddsa chain i believe so it's an entire new signing algo as well.
And so there's lots of ways that it can go wrong or have bugs or issues
than your typical chain client that we've added in the past.
So we have to be extra kind of cautious about this particular,
which is why we only gave it like, I think it's like $2,000 in the pool right now.
Like not, you know, fuck all.
It's like not thousand dollars are in the pool right now like not you know fuck all it's
like not that much money um we'll probably be adding more into it this this week or next week
you know up to ten thousand or twenty thousand but i'm i'm kind of planning in my mind to have
a slow roll on solana like they could do it over the time of maybe like a month just to make sure
everything kind of like connects right and there's no issues and and we kind of do our due diligence in this in this kind of sense so that's that's definitely going to be you know a
slower chain rollout than what we would typically do for sure right um and i got a little update
here um 3.16 upgrade looks good we are in halting salon signing and we'll proceed to unhalt trading
once the current churn clears message from node operator thank you very much for the update coke
i appreciate it thank you um okay guys so there you go. That's coming. And yeah, with Chad Bareford is 100% true. It's a new chain. Very exciting.
This actually leads me to segue, Chad. So Saturday, we talked with the Liquify team. They're a big, you know, RPC provider. Really cool.
They run those. A super awesome team. Yep. They had some interesting, we talked a lot, and I was wondering if we could just quickly touch on opt-in chain clients, right? So we had some interesting back and forth on that. We're wondering, does opt-in chain clients change the game theory for our mechanisms for churning nodes out. So for example, we have three primary ways people turn out, right? We got age,
we have slashes, and we have low bond, right? So let's say you have all these chain clients now,
I don't know, maybe we have a minimum chain client. I don't know how it would work.
But let's say there's a node that wants to run all the chains, right? And then maybe there's
Maybe there's another node who only wants to do like five, maybe UTXOs only or something.
another node who only wants to do like five, maybe UTXOs only or something, I don't know, right?
I don't know. Right. And let's say that node, there's one chain that just goes haywire.
Maybe it's Gaia. Maybe it's Solana. I don't know. They get a bunch of slash points. Right.
So because of that, they will get slash points and their total slash points will put them up to be churned out because of poor performance. But we were talking
with the look of guys as should we maybe put an extra churn out mechanism in there if nodes don't.
OK, so a node that only supports maybe five chains instead of 20 chains, should we have another
qualifier to churn them out? because we want nodes to run a lot of
chains because it's more network activity right i theoretically what do you what are your thoughts
on that do you think a node is heart as unfairly punished and turned out if by example the layer
one itself not necessarily anything they did but if the layer one goes hey where they still get
slash points maybe you could if you've got any gave any thought of that, we were wondering.
I mean, my hot take is probably not.
If you're running less chain daemons,
you are, statistically speaking, less likely to accrue slash points, right?
Because you're not engaged with the protocol as much.
You're not expected to observe as many things.
There's more things that can go wrong for you to collect slash points.
And therefore, you're probably more likely to be churned out because of that,
because there's more opportunity for you to be slashed.
Therefore, you're going to collect more slash points.
Therefore, you're more likely to be churned out.
But at the same time, with that risk comes more money, more yield,
because you're validating 20 chains instead of 5 chains or whatever the
number's going to be. I would be more concerned about
my larger concern is having
a few nodes validating. Say we launch
Zcash and only a handful of nodes want to validate
Zcash for some reason right
maybe because they're people don't want to validate a coin that has privacy
built into it and we don't want to churn out three people if there's only five
validators you know of that particular chain we don't want to accidentally
churn out three of the five right like that would that would be you know
probably that would probably trigger a Ragnarok you know where the whole chain would would probably just like self not self
destruct but uh what's the word word uh eloquently uh exit i guess you know something like that
uh um a planned a smooth exit i don't know what the type phrasing would be but like that
would be something to be concerned on so like we would probably want to have a
you know minimum number of nodes which would be to enable a chain which let's
say the number is four to start I don't know this is the actual numbers but
let's just say it's four and then you limit the amount of capital this and
then we're gonna have because only only has four nodes validating,
so you don't want to have like $10 million.
That would just be way too much.
So you limit, like, I think it's like $100,000 per node that churns in.
I think that's how it's probably going to work.
And then you don't start the chain until you get...
Four to start, but you don't really start until you get to seven notes or something like this.
So you have a little bit of space between four and seven.
A little bit of wiggle room, if you want to call it wiggle room.
You know what I mean?
I don't know.
I haven't thought too deeply about this particular aspect of the feature.
I started implementing it somewhat months ago, but I haven't thought too deeply about this particular aspect of of the feature um i've started implementing it somewhat uh months ago
but i haven't thought too deeply about this particular aspect i'm actually more concerned
about like how a ragnarok would handle with the with the ruji app layer right and like the ruji
app layer has to exit its liquidity right probably would just like trade everything it has like all
the zcash assets into stablecoin you know secured
assets and then give it back to the person who had the zcash so like you don't lose your your
money you don't you don't get like you know your you know you don't lose your assets but you get
usdc forms of the of those assets so that you at least get the dollar value at that particular time
that has to be discussed as well but it's an interesting question you ask. Right. And I was wondering, we have a question here.
I'll get to it shortly.
But OK, so if we go to an all POL model, does that not like make the Ragnarok more of a
simple process where if it's just POL, then the protocol just gets its liquidity back.
So you could you could just if like some crazy bug happened and the nodes got turned out for whatever reason
for that, could you not just reseed the same liquidity again? You know what I
mean? Like it would, it actually, it simplifies the process a lot. I don't
know. I'm trying to think of that. That's more of like, um, what seeds the pool
is not the, is not the POL. The POL is protocol-owned liquidity.
And usually it's the treasury that actually gives the capital for these pools.
At least that's how it is now. I'm open to changing that.
I'm open to – we were talking a couple weeks ago with Kenton about the idea of having the POL kind of move its money around from one pool to another pool to kind of rebalance itself.
from one pool to another pool to kind of like a rebalance itself you know and it
is so we could do that right we could just like seed the pool with like
something small like ten thousand dollars from the Treasury and then let
the POL just kind of like you know move its way into the pool like over time or
something like this and that way when there's a ragnarok it's like it's not
it's like a non-issue or just it would just see the the pol back to its you know to itself in effect protocol gives money back to
itself and then the Treasury would get back it's $10,000 or whatever hell it is
or the Treasury just like seed it let the pol move into it and then the
Treasury just exits right is it's kind of like a transitionary kind of capital
just to kind of get it started and let the pol kind of take over you know you
could do that it's another option um yeah i'm open to thinking more more deeply about it but
that's an interesting idea those options that's an interesting idea i actually think that's pretty
cool um we have a question here so uh um basically they just want to like maybe i know it's kind of
the ideation phase but like do you envision often like maybe there's like a default must-haves like Bitcoin, Ethereum, some UTXOs, or just opt-in chain clients means whatever chain client you can run
to, you can run all of them. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, um, by default, you're running all of
them. Right. And, and this is, it's this way because that's what it is now. Right. Like it's
already, that's how we function now. So if you don't specify anything as the chains you want to support or not support,
then by default you're expected to run them all.
If you want to have a subset, that's perfectly fine.
You can do that.
So you would just broadcast a transaction, say, I want to support Zcash and Salina and Bitcoin, blah, blah, blah.
But there shouldn't be anything of like, oh, you must support Bitcoin or you must support any particular chain.
I think that the tendency is that everybody's going to want to support Bitcoin.
That's what the majority of the volume is anyway.
That's what the liquidity is.
And so it's pretty low risk in terms of all chains to support. So I suspect that just like the natural ebbs and flows of the free market will do its
job and create the validators that are supporting any particular chain, any particular moment with
what is needed in that particular moment, because the flows of capital will advocate or put economic
pressure to have more people or less people, more validators or less validators supporting any
particular chain.
Right. And, you know, just to be clear, like, let's just say if there was a small amount of validators doing one pool, maybe XMR for whatever reason, they're too nervous about privacy and the
volume's huge, then the APYs on those nodes will be absolutely gargantuan, right? Gargantuan. And
so there's this natural balancing act incentive, which is really cool. But you know, Chad, I'm just thinking like opt-in chain clients, if there is a layer one that just sucks, right?
I don't want to say any layer ones, but just say one.
And if the layer one sucks and there's nodes that run it, and because the layer one itself is giving its slash points, right?
It's not generating volume.
It's giving slash points because the base layer one is not stable.
Then I can really see like Thor chain really a lot.
Some chains could get Ragnarok just organically because BPs would demand it too.
Like if your node gets churned out from slash points on based on a layer one, that's just not performing. It's no volume
that BPs themselves like, Hey, why are we running this chain? We're, we're losing money here. You
know what I mean? What do you think that's how it works? Well, it's been more nuanced than that. So
you don't get, if a layer one is, is, is like unstable, you don't really get slashed for that.
Right. Like you, you, there's no reason to to to to
punish a validator for not validating a chain that's broken do you know what i mean like it
doesn't make a whole lot of sense so like you only get slashed when other chains other validators are
are validating that chain and you're not right like when two-thirds majority i think it's two
thirds maybe it's something different it's been years since I've looked at that code.
But when two-thirds of the validators say, hey, we observed this transaction,
and then Kenton's a really bad validator, and he's just not observed
because his statement's broken or whatever the hell it is,
and he's not validating that transaction,
he gets slashed for not observing that transaction that everybody else was able to observe.
But if the entire layer one is broken,
then nobody's observing anything.
And that's what actually happened in real time for Terra.
When Terra had its collapse back in the day,
back in 22, I think it was,
the whole chain was just being mad, rushed.
People were broadcasting transactions left and right
to close their
loans and get rid of their UST tokens and Luna tokens or whatever it was the whole chain was
having a hard time even just functioning just generating blocks you know and our network
detected that instability and autonomously paused that chain, pause trading for that chain
and all that kind of stuff.
So it did it completely autonomously.
So I don't know,
I can't remember off the top of my head
how many slash points were incurred
during that particular crazy moment
that we saw at the end of Terra's reign,
if you want to call it that.
Right.
But I don't think slash points
is something you would experience.
But if you're validating a chain that sucks, a layer one that nobody really cares about,
there are a bunch of examples of chains out there that exist, but nobody does anything on them ever
because they have no trade volume.
Then as a validator, you'd be like, well, why am I spending money or time trying to validate this chain
that's producing almost no income?
And so as a validator, you might say, all right, I want to get out of this one so instead of having you know 10 validators now
there's nine validators which means whatever yield that thing is generating is being divided by nine
instead of being divided by 10. so everybody's getting a like a little bit of a larger chunk
than from before that guy so now like it's a little bit more incentive to stay right when
there's nine the versus ten and then when there's eight there's seven there's six you get each one of those remaining people get a larger and
larger percentage of whatever income it's making which makes it more and more
viable to stay in it right right so there's like there's a natural kind of
economic reason and maybe because there's like just basically zero volume
on this particular chain whatever team that it might be is maybe all the
validators say like you know what there's like there's no money at all
coming through this chain.
Nobody's trading other than just ARBs.
And, you know, we're just going to have, we're just going to exit entirely.
And like all the validators just exit.
And then the network just rag and rocks that chain.
All the LP goes out, you know, and the whole thing shuts down gracefully.
And, you know, we carry on.
Yeah, interesting.
And I'm just trying to go back in time.
That was a Luna Terra collapse. It's crazy.
So the reason why the protocol shut itself off is because our own network couldn't,
I mean, you said it was the third was crazy.
We couldn't stay up to the tip and we were worried about double spends, right?
And the network recognized that and auto paused the chain, right?
Yes.
That was the reason.
Yeah.
It observed that like we broadcast transactions, but it's not on the chain.
Something's weird about right like we're like we're broadcasting transactions and it ain't it ain't see weird wait seeing the
transactions that we broadcast so there's like something unusual and we just detected that kind
of unusualness of it and like this is unstable this is weird obviously we don't want to be double
spending for obvious reasons so let's just pause signing entirely a pause the chain entirely have the devs take a
deeper look at it investigate it you know one day that'll be probably hugan but like you know let
the devs look at it and then you know establish what to what to do if anything to correct the
situation got it okay yeah this is nice to go back in history and remember how that all was
and ThorChain was able to see that's how hardy ThorChain is it was able to do that even back then that feels like a lifetime ago honestly at this point but uh
yeah ThorChain is just built just just uh it's so hardy we're so this protocol we spent so much
time making defensive and I think it really pays dividends now it's you know it's awesome it's
awesome okay sweet so oh go ahead Chad I was, like, a lot's changed since then on this part, this little section of
the code.
We now do what we call instant observations.
So that whenever we broadcast a transaction, successfully broadcast a transaction, the
node that's signed and broadcasts, or all of them within that vault, tell the main chain,
like the Thor chain, like that we sign and we broadcast,
we believe this thing is good.
That tells Thor chain not to reschedule
to some other vault to sign and broadcast
the same transaction on a different vault,
which obviously we wouldn't want to do,
that would be double spending.
So we have additional protections in the network today
that we didn't have back then,
that even a more fucked up chain
that's having even a harder time
than what Terra was doing,
we have a myriad of protections in the network. In fact, the problem we have with Solana that
caused us to pause the training was that that function, that instant observation,
wasn't working for EDDSA. It was working fine for ECDSA, but not EDDSA. This is our first EDDSA
chain. So we had discovered that that bug and that's the thing we
were trying to fix so that we would create that protection about double spend.
Oh, there you go. I mean, guys, how can you be bearish on ThorChain? Are you kidding me? Like,
this is freaking phenomenal stuff, you guys. ThorChain all the way back in and then compared to
today, it's not even comparable. It's a whole other beast beast i love this protocol so much i have to say
i just love thor chain i just into my veins chad into my veins i love it um okay so uh 3.16 you
know i thought about screen sharing but there's literally 96 freaking prs you know it's not going
to be blah i'm curious um people want to know what what comes next let's assume everything
works good what's what's next on your plate for 3.1.7?
Well, now the 3.16 is out. We got the Solana resumed. What was the other ones?
There was Solana. There was Rapid Swaps. It's probably going to be flipped on pretty soon.
Limit Swaps are going to be re-enabled again. There was a bug that we had to fix.
And then the other thing too is we might be enabling memoless outbound. That's been in the
code for a while and it's been running on stage net, like testing and validating that all that
logic works well. So we might be flipping that on on main net, which would basically mean that
we stopped signing outbound transactions
with memos. And the reason why that's nice is because it reduces the amount of gas or transaction
fees that we have to pay to get something on chain or whatever. And so it just makes things a bit more
gas efficient. BDC opens the door for BDC batch outbounds as well.
Thank you for worth the code.
It kind of creates the pathway to kind of get that feature landed,
which that's really great too because, again,
you're reducing your gas you're paying per transactions.
You're being more competitive in that kind of sense.
And we can sign, effectively sign like near infinite.
I want to,
infinite's probably a little bit hyperbulous,
but we can sign a single transaction
that has, you know,
30 outbounds or, you know,
any, almost any arbitrary amount,
so to speak.
So we can really have the outbound signing
be the fastest.
I remember the day,
we haven't seen this for years though,
to be fair,
but like where we used to have
the outbound queue get like stacked up, you know, and usually because of some sort of tss signing bug or something like this
but like we used to see that kind of be like stacked up like hundreds of outbounds is waiting
to be signed which is really problematic for arbitrage bots because they're capitalists
basically stuck in the network and they can't get it out to re-arb the the pools and whatnot
but once we get that going we could like if, if we had like a, you know,
some sort of cue bound, a built up, we could clear that cue and like, like real fast. Um,
so that's something I think we're, that we're working on like Liquify is actually working on
that right now. Um, and that's, I think that's it for three 16, I think if I can remember.
Yeah. Yeah. That, that sounds pretty. Yeah. That sounds pretty reasonable yeah um maybe i should
just screen share i don't know i mean it's it's so big here let me bring it up here boom yeah i
mean it's i mean look at look what hugan did you guys look what chad and hugan and all the devs did
this is crazy i'll slowly scroll through it guys but yeah this is definitely a record here um so much stuff yeah it's so much stuff divide by zero
panics over solvency stuff um man oh then the bond slash refunds guys we did have a bug uh in
the previous version that is in this update so don't expect it right away but it will come um
eventually it always does um we had a tron fix uh you guys look at this this is incredible this is incredible
and i am so excited to see and then what you said earlier chad is maybe you'll make these these prs
fatter so there's more things in one pr so you don't have a long list of 10. um so more efficient
fatter prs maybe we'll have fatter prs and we'll still submit 96 of these suckers i don't know
fatter PRs. Maybe we'll have fatter PRs and we'll still submit 96 of these suckers. I don't know.
That would be basically being like almost like a 10x output. Yeah. Because like, which would be
amazing if we can get there. I mean, that's, I mean, AI is going to make that easier to achieve,
but in the coming future, but yeah. Yeah. 317, which we're obviously in the mix now.
Yeah. 317, which we're obviously in the mix now. Intense will hopefully be merged for part of 317,
so that code will hopefully land. We may not flip it on 317. It might require more time of testing
and validation, but at least the brunt of the code will hopefully be merged for 317.
The over-solvency thing, so we so sweeping over-solvency in the pool
and giving it back to the community in one form or another.
And then the other one I think we're going to have for 3.17
is the BDC zero-conf trading.
I think that's like one thing I think would be pretty interesting
just to give us much faster swap times for BDC trades.
It'll work for other UTXOs, but Bitcoin's the real significant one.
A random question.
So you mentioned how things used to get backed up in arbitrage and capital gets stuck.
I remember we had the clout score to help arbitragers.
How relevant is that when rapid swaps and limit swaps get going?
Is that necessary anymore?
Not so much.
I mean, clout was really to help, like, circumvent the outbound queue.
So, like, the more clout you had, the more trustworthy you were in some sense,
and we could expedite you being signed.
And for ARB, they have a large clout score because they're constantly trading tens of thousands,
hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars per day, depending on the ARB.
But we actually might even remove the clout score into the future at some point.
Maybe we'll keep it.
I don't know. like it has less of a, like we've already kind of configured the outbound queue
to be a lot less or a lot smaller than it used to be.
So that obviously that just inherently makes the clout score
even less valuable or useful.
So there's a possibility we might actually
just take it off of that.
Somebody asked in the group chat about who's taking the risk for the zero conf BDC.
Nobody's really taking the risk. You didn't really need to because how it works is we start
executing the trade when we see the Bitcoin trade in the mempool. And we start kind of like
streaming swap the transaction, but we don't send out the outbound until the inbound has been confirmed.
So there's no risk of like losing the money, so to speak.
But worst case scenario, something happens and the mempool never gets into a block or something like this.
Like something happens like that.
Then we just take the trade and just trade it back to the Bitcoin that we didn't receive and just kind of reverse the swap back to its original kind of position.
It's not like a huge deal from a security perspective.
We're going to put a cap in that feature of limiting the amount of capital total we will allow to use this feature at any given time.
Whether it be like $5,000 to start or start or ten thousand dollars to start keep it small and we can expand it later on to be a hundred grand or
any arbitrary number um we'll definitely start small and to test the feature out and expand as
we have more confidence and it's and it's you know in its uh safety and whatnot but uh but i don't
think there's there's no risk being taken on by the protocol because we're not sending the outbound until the inbound has been confirmed badass badass 2026 is just a banger
year and it's barely march bro i am losing my mind over here um i had another question on here so the
intents will work only on tc supported chains right no other way uh yes we it only works with with tc supported chains um we obviously we want
to add more chains where you know we've got solana zcash polygon sui ton you know tons of chains
coming coming down the pipeline and we're trying to get that's why we have like a dedicated chain
team right at this point we have like these two people who are constantly just working on just
adding more chains to kind of to increase
the quantity of routes that we can have uh so i'm not uh um um terribly worried about like in
especially in the short term like each each chain you add has less and less return on an investment
there's diminishing returns with every chain that you add right because like you just get to more
and more kind of long-tailed chains or assets
that fewer and fewer people have any interest in actually trading with.
But yes, you have to, the caveat is it has to be,
both assets have to be assets and chains that we already support.
And of the two assets you're trading on with the Intense,
one of them has to be a pooled asset, right?
Either Rune or Bitcoin or Ethereum or
something like this. You can't go from random ERC-20 to random ERC-20. And the reason why that
is because we don't really know the value of those two tokens. And because we don't know the value,
the network wants to collect some BIPs, some know, some fees on the, on the intense trading.
Right. And we don't know how much to take. Right. We don't know how to cash in.
If you gave ThorChain some random ERC20, like, well, how can it give it to the validators?
It's got to be able to trade that random ERC20 token to Rune in order to pay out the validators.
But like, but if both tokens are tokens that the network doesn't really have a liquidity pool for then how are you going to do it now you could do it with an intent on
top of intent meaning that you use somebody does an intent from two random tokens we have no idea
how they are and then another intent is used you grab like 15 bips relative to these assets
and then you've got this little this new thing you have a second intent going from that to Rune.
But then it becomes like, oh, I really
can do another intent for $10, not even $10.
It's probably more complexity than it's actually worth,
I would presume.
So I guess for starters, at least,
we can always change later.
But the requirements
are both assets have to be changed or supported. And one of the two assets have to be a pooled asset.
Gotcha. Okay. And then, um, Zam, Zam, I guess your name's Zam Boner. I don't know. Uh, Zam Boner,
he had a follow up on the, uh, the zero comp. He says, what about reorg? It's not just about mempool picking the text, I guess.
Yeah. So Reorg is, before this feature even is implemented, Reorg is a thing, right? Like we already have mechanisms in place. That's why we have conf counting, right? And we have a write-up
transactions and that kind of thing. So we are at no more at risk of that than than we are today
right um so any issue we have about reorgs within the context of this zero comp trading thing it's
no different than what it is right now there's no there's no greater no more risk than what we are
we have today but we already have like you know for bitcoin we just do one cough because bitcoin's
like you can't really reorg Bitcoin.
It's like crazy hard to do.
Like it's almost impossible.
Other chains, we do more confs than that.
Right.
I think for like for Ethereum, I think we do two confs, for example. I think that's all you really need for Ethereum.
Yeah, I don't really consider it to be any more risky than what we already have today.
There you go. That's the answer to your question very good um okay cool we're coming on the hour
guys just as a reminder please this show nothing is financial advice please do your own research
when it comes to making any investment whatsoever but i will say thor chain's freaking awesome and
i will die on that hill 100 thor chain is the best protocol ever i love thor chain so much
connecting all the chains and
liberating the world at the same time hello that's what we're doing
here that's what we're going to do
very cool Chad
okay you know I don't think I have too
many more questions is there anything
else you think we've missed at all that
you want to cover sounds like
you've got lots you're working on you're pretty busy
love what you're doing so far
so yeah man awesome like you've got lots you're working on you're pretty busy love what you're doing so far um
so yeah man awesome um a couple things in the pipeline i think people might be interested in um we're working on a way for the community to be able to see who the sources of chain data
from each individual validator right historically hadn't definitely mattered because everybody's
getting their data from, you know,
a local, like a local chain daemon.
But with Solana, that changes a bit
because, you know, I would say a majority of people
are not running their own Solana daemons anymore
because Solana's such a heavy daemon to run.
But we also want to be able to have the clarity
and the transparency so the community can verify
that whoever we're getting the Solana data from
is not too much on a one validator, one data provider, right?
Let's just call it like anchor, for example.
Because if we did, then we would have a potential cyber attack situation.
And we obviously don't like cyber attacks for obvious reasons. So now we can, once this feature is merged, we'll be able to publicly verify if chains
are using the same source of data to alert everybody, hey, we're too heavy on this provider.
We need to change or move or whatever it might be.
I think that's one thing.
And then, what else is it?
Invariance is going to be working on it.
That's not so exciting, though.
ERC20 is for memola support.
Right.
That's going to probably roll out once Router V6 is done.
Router V6 has been running on StageNet for a couple of weeks, I think.
So far, so good.
We're going to have a slow rollout on DomainNet.
We're going to start with the lowest TVL EVM chain we have, which I think is base.
And then every two weeks, just kind of roll out another chain to have a slow rollout of the new router.
kind of roll out another chain to kind of like have a slow rollout of the new router.
And then once the router is fully out, we'll be able to, you know,
turn on ERC-20 memo-less support, which would be nice.
The other thing that's really, really funny, actually,
I have a PR open just to backfill unit tests.
And that sounds really boring, and it is in a sense.
But what makes it so funny is that this PR so far
is like 46,000 lines of code that was generated overnight.
I ran something called a RALF loop,
and I'm not going to get into technical what that means.
But I basically had cloud code you know just backfill unit tests like literally all night long this is
partially why I burned all my tokens for the week and it just like literally just like it's created
like 120 new unit tests it's modified 80 it's I don't know it's a huge amount of code for obvious
reasons and so it's a great way of how clock code raises the code quality.
I mentioned that earlier in the conversation.
This is an example of that.
It creates better code quality by having more thorough and deeper unit tests.
I'll probably do the same for regression tests in the future as well
when I have the spare cycles to do so but like it's
kind of a funny thing like probably the largest PR in ThorChain's history which is almost 50,000
lines of code in a single change for comparison like when I used to like write code by hand like
my target my PR side and size in general would be about 300 lines that's like the that's like the target where I would usually shoot for it.
If I got more than that, I usually break up into multiple PRs, so that's easier to read
and for people to read and verify.
For unit tests, you don't need to read and verify so much, because it's just unit tests.
Either they pass or don't, it's not that big of a deal.
But it's just kind of funny. It's like 50,000 lines of change is like kind of like an absurd amount but you know i'll take it it's like it's
gonna help the protocol for for sure yeah that's just i mean it just breaks that breaks things
that's like exponential like you know that would take you so much time to do all that obviously oh
yeah it would have taken me weeks if not if not months, to have done that by hand. So this is where AI shines probably the most,
is just backfilling unit tests.
And he did that overnight, Hugin?
Yeah, I think it took about probably 12 hours,
I'm going to guess, something like that, 12 or 16 hours,
something in that area.
Just continuously just writing, writing like writing writing writing writing writing
testing writing writing testing it's pretty it's pretty remarkable um i have that is remarkable
it's absolutely incredible um that's such a game changer i guys i can't emphasize that's just
amazing i do have a question i found um someone didn't use the chat but i'll ask their question
anyway they're trying to distract me um they want to know your opinion of ADR24,
some revenue to the POL and deprecating LPs.
What is, you have any opinions on that chat?
I haven't actually read ADR24 to be honest with you.
So I don't, I'm sure if I have a strong opinion on it
because I haven't read the details.
But the synopsis is to, what?
Take a percentage of revenue and dedicate that
as a siphon to to liquidity pools probably controlled by mimi or by notes i'm thinking
i'd have to i'm sorry boon i i should have read it more closely exactly what you said but basically
a static supply a steady supply not static of um of two various pools, you know,
to basically increase our own depth of the pools with some POL.
Maybe that's – you split the burn in half, 2.5%, 2.5% POL burn.
Go ahead.
Well, the POL – so my apologies to Boone who maybe wrote the ADR.
I haven't read yet, but the pol is is a liquidity provider right it is
it is an lp so any money that it makes goes into the pools right it's part of it it's like so it's
already contributing 100 back into the pools right now right so the if you're talking about the five
percent burn that's that's something separate from the pol rights Right. Something on top of it we kind of like take out and then we, you know.
It would be redirected. It would be the revenue.
Like you would take, maybe you would add just a 5%, just additional.
And maybe you take that away from, you know, bond and nodes.
Or maybe you would change the burn.
You would just have an official stream of revenue going straight to POL to make pools deeper oh i'll see so it's
taking out us okay i got your saying so yeah so the because of um right now almost all the system
income is going to the to the notes right very little of the system income is going to the lps
and the people right as you know one of the lps so it's not people's not really making much money
you know in the current moment uh if you want to like cut out let's call it 10 of the LPs. So it's not, POL's not really making much money in the current moment.
If you want to cut out, let's call it 10% of the system
income and then donate it into the POL
so that it does that, yeah, you could do something like that.
Yeah, you could.
I think I would be more interested to think
about the incentive pendulum and how it's designed because the way it's designed originally, I don't think no longer kind of makes sense in the way we think about the pools and security and all these things. It no longer just kind it to the LPs, maybe there's a different kind of mechanism that has the incentive pendulum
to balance the income of the LPs versus the nodes.
I don't know what that would be off the top of my head.
I'd have to spend some time brainstorming and thinking about it.
That would be, to me, a cleaner way of doing it, possibly cleaner.
Maybe it's more complicated and not cleaner at all.
But I'd be open to kind of thinking about that.
Yeah.
If I remember correctly, the incentive pendulum basically would be deprecated at that point.
It would just be a straight percentage yield.
And then the point that Pragmatic pragmatic monkey he really likes the idea because
um he says you know the deeper the pools are the more thor chain makes just on arbitrage alone because it takes more capital to rebalance the pools so there's kind of like a compounding effect
where if you have pol let's say go to a shallow pool like solana's shallow and you take a hundred
thousand uh death pool to a 500 000 or a million dollar slip tool the arbitrage alone that volume would
be huge and then of course that's even more pol from those additional fees that gets into the
pol and so it's like a it's like a flywheel at that point it is um the negative though it's like
this might be a hard sell for for notes right because what you're trying to tell nodes is this
you're saying you guys which
notes don't make that much money relative to its history like i think a node right now is like like
five percent of system income is like fifty thousand dollars seventy thousand dollars somewhere
in that range currently um so you're basically asking nodes like hey take ten percent of what
you're making right now on running an evaluator,
and I want you to donate it to the protocol.
That's effectively what you're trying to convince the nodes,
which the nodes are the ones who are voting on this, by the way.
Right.
That might be a hard sell to tell nodes,
why don't you just donate 10% of your income and just give it to the protocol?
That might be a difficult sell.
I don't know.
I'm open to discussing it in you know
having a conversation about that kind of stuff but it might be hard to sell those uh boone uh
joined the the live stream hi boone it says you are in uh portrait they it would be happy for
your landscape i don't care it's fine how's it going boone what you got for us buddy yeah i'm
at the gym so i'm just gonna leave my off, if that's all right. No, you're fine, brother.
I want to see your biceps.
Can I sit here and just watch?
Hold on.
How do I do this?
Look at that handsome guy.
Wait a minute.
How do I turn my camera around?
How do I turn the camera around in this?
I don't know. I don't know. Dude, you're good go ahead all right whatever for us brother yeah well no i just uh
i think there was some lack of clarity around my proposal and yeah so chad it's specifically
to direct revenue to like it would be a new form of pol so it's not the previous
to like it would be a new form of pol so it's not the previous like pol from the reserves nor it's
the treasury liquidity um and so basically it just the problem i'm attempting to address
is that because of the current design of the incentive pendulum there is no incentive to lp
so there's no incentive to deepen the pools and so right now the treasury is making up that shortfall,
but it has limited funds. They're not infinite. And yeah, it's just, you know, eventually we're
going to run out. And also perhaps that capital could be put to better uses than seeding pools.
And so the basic idea is to, instead of trying to rent liquidity by incentivizing people to
loan their liquidity to the protocol by way of depositing the LP pools, instead we invest
that same money that we were spending on LP rewards into owning liquidity in the pools,
which would compound over time as you guys just went over.
And then the ADR that I submitted specifically doesn't address like deprecating LPs. I do think
that's the right move, but like it doesn't necessitate that. Instead, it's just two new
mameers. One is BIPs to POL. So just, you know, a certain number of basic points uh deposited of revenue towards pol
and then the other would just be which pool um it currently says unsent pools to avoid that whole
fiasco but like so for example you could point it at soul.soul and x percent of system income
would just go into deepening the soul pool over time. So that's the basic idea.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, you could definitely do that.
Because if you're going to say, like, let's call it 10% of system income,
that's currently like $100,000, approximately $100,000 per month at our current kind of rates.
Last time I looked, it was current rates.
It's not like a huge amount of money.
Over a year, that's like $1.2 million.
But if the room price were to increase by like 1%, which we see that happening in one direction
or the other direction, like on the daily,
that would probably contribute more to the pools
just by room's price going up 1%
than an entire year of 10% of the system income going to it.
So it's like, if we don't do what you're suggesting,
the pools will deepen on their own over time
just by Rune's price moving in one direction.
Right now, it's pretty depressed
with the Rune price being where it is
and the market price being where it is,
the general market being where it is.
But in a more bullish times
period the pools will be grow to like hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars without
taking out the 10 percent just just by lieu of the price of of roon or bitcoin or any of the other
assets into the network moon did you catch that sorry uh yeah like don't interrupt his squats
but i mean i don't disagree but i guess i just i don't see how they're uh
they're opposite like if if pol deepens the pools and the ruin price goes up then the pools are that much bigger
like yeah yes whatever but like like you have to convince nodes who are who are now getting that
yields like they're in they're putting in their pockets you know right now and you to convince
them that you should reduce your income by 10% And then the node's going to naturally ask,
what am I getting out of donating 10% of my income to the protocol?
Yes, the pools are deeper, which is positive for the protocol,
but am I really going to get back more than the 10% that I'm giving?
Am I going to lose money in this whole thing when it comes to the end of the day?
Yes, the pools are getting a little bit deeper,
but that would mean that the other 90 that i'm earning is going to go higher in value or price because of those
depths of those pools that that's a hard uh argument uh to to have right it's like it's it's
pretty um you know a hearsay to to know whether that's gonna be worth the money from the node's perspective or not
i mean sure and i'm not i'm not really trying to like argue you know but and so the design of my
adr leads it up to the nodes they can vote via veneer how much percentage of revenue they want
to give to pol it could be zero right like it just gives them an option. You can do that, too.
Like, we can have a new configuration for the nodes, right?
Each individual node can say, like, I opt into a 9% donation to the pools, to the POL, basically.
And each individual node can make that choice for themselves.
Rather than, like, getting two-thirds majority to vote and approve of whatever this ADR is,
you could just, like, add a new feature that says hey node operator do you want to donate some of your income to the to the protocol and then you just you know can like oh 10
thousand bips or 9,000 bips or a thousand bips or whatever how many bips
you want to do and it'll just take whatever income it makes it just like
instead of giving it to itself it just shuns it over to the POL's module, instead of the bond module.
You could do that.
Right, that's another option. There's infinite options.
They would achieve the same thing without requiring consensus.
Well, but then...
Or even an ADR by that point.
Yeah, but then you're getting into game theory where like anyone
if i'm donating and you're not donating then i'm just a sucker like you're making money off my
donation and i'm losing money because i'm donating and you're not it just makes sense for everyone
to donate the same amount good but then they need to get two-thirds majority to it to agree to donate
10 i think that would just be a hard hard to achieve that well they can they can vote for one percent or whatever percent it doesn't have to be ten they can vote for ten they can vote for one
yeah but i at the same time it's like if you really if you really want to see money donated
into the to the protocol then you know to be honest like i would think a better allocation
of that honestly is like donating that 10 to the Treasury. Because the Treasury doesn't really have a source of income other than
operating nodes, and oftentimes those operations, those nodes, the Treasury doesn't get the
rewards of that some community member does who's
contributing to the protocol. And having an income for the Treasury so that we have a long-term
ability for solvency in the Treasury to make sure
there's always enough money in the treasury to pay you know developers and marketing and and you know dashboards and
you know whatever else uh out there like that would be probably a better allocation of that
capital to be honest than just donating to the pools in my i mean but it's kind of same same
right so right now the treasury has a lot of liquidity in the pools and if this POL can enter liquidity into the pools and
the Treasury can pull its liquidity out of the pools so it's kind of same same
you don't know what top my head how much much the Treasury has it's a lot yeah if
you go to a rune tools like cows dashboard you It's a whole treasury page. You can look at their LP setup.
I'll try and bring it up real quick.
What's it under, Boone? Can you remind me?
Roon tools and then the treasury dashboard.
Okay. All right, here we go.
Loading balances.
Yeah.
Treasury value 6.2 million it says.
Locked LP value
2.5 million.
Yeah, there it is. Yep.
You can see people at home
you can see on your screen there.
I'll zoom in a little bit.
This is a very interesting
conversation gosh dang it i'm silly i picked the wrong one there i'll scroll here for people
to see at home go ahead and again i'm not really trying to like you know like i'm not trying to
argue but uh i'll throw out one little one last little fact and then i'll get back to my workout
but like it i recently shared a chart in the the main channel of the dev discord that just
tracks the proportion of rewards to either lps or vps over time um and if you do it since main net
was declared it was like 22 to 78 so bonds got 78 of rewards over that time and lps got 22 which is basically
what i'm suggesting that same just to continue that trend essentially of giving the pools 20
of the system income which is what we've done historically so it's really not even big about change. Yeah. Yeah.
The thing that the only thing that my brain likes about it, I think of it's not the same thing, but I think of like a dividend stock.
Right. So you should do that back in the day. You have a dividend that reinvests itself.
If you have P.O.L. that goes into a pool and arbitrage in the market's very dynamic because the pool's deeper, you're getting more fees because there's more arbitrage in the market's very dynamic. Because the pool's deeper, you're getting more fees
because there's more arbitrage going there. And so then that's more revenue overall, which then
leads to more POL, which then deepens the pools even more and blah, blah, blah, blah. So it's
kind of like a longer term play for sure. I think it's interesting. I'm curious, like what Chad says,
what the nodes think, you know what I mean? How, what, because I'd be really curious their opinion on this.
So if you're a node operator and you see this, whether it's live or recording, you know,
share your thoughts, please, in the ADR and Dev Discord.
Let's get a conversation going.
Maybe strike a middle ground or yes or no or, you know, because interesting conversation for sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
And Boone, you've got a lot of people in the audience who say you're one sexy guy.
We got a quick look at you dude quick look at you buddy. So
You're sweating you've got the pheromones pumping out of your body dude
You've I think you've got some boyfriends. I don't know if there's some ladies hitting on boom right now
That's why he's muted. He's got this girl sitting on asking for his number oh yeah girls come up are you talking about thor chain
if we all know that's how that's how women get hot and bothered oh yeah tell me hey that's the
goal boys that's the goal where the girls know about Thornchain. And if that's when dude, like you running around your Lambo with the Thornchain symbol on it,
then that's it. The ladies like you will know that's how we've succeeded.
Like, oh, I've heard about Thornchain. You know what I mean?
Happens to me all the time when I went on a first date, you know.
Oh, tell me more about the incentive pendulum.
Happens all the time.
Oh, yeah.
This economic doctrine talks just get me hot and bothered.
Oh, tell me more.
Yeah, exactly.
Let's talk about cryptography.
Yeah, all right, exactly.
We're such nerds, but you know what?
It's pretty cool when you guys break it down.
I mean, this shit's fascinating to me.
Let me check the thing here.
Someone, random.
I wouldn't mind taking it at 5% from block.
Is that block rewards, the POL?
Let's be aware.
Yeah, that's too much.
And then additionally,
just the burn alone is already starting at 4%.
POL, 1% burn.
Changes nothing for the no.
There's a lot of ways you guys can do it.
I mean, yeah, you could do.
Some people want to keep it.
I would be down.
I would vote for getting rid of the burn and just giving it to the P.O.L.
To me, that's a much better allocation of resources.
To me, that's almost like an obvious yes,
because burning is you're reallocating five percent of that income
to every root holder in the world whether you're active participant of the net of the network or
just like sitting in cold storage and going directly into the po all that with that five
percent is a much better allocation of those resources i would be totally down for that
yeah i uh i i agree i am totally down for, too. Some people are just adamant about keeping the burn.
So I get it.
They love that burn.
Maybe there is some, like, higher play where people just, you know,
there's just so much marketability with the word burn.
And so maybe I get that.
But, you know, I mean, we've been doing the burn for a while now.
We're over, I think, a year at this point.
I might be wrong about that.
Don't sorry.
We're above 1.5 million rune burned. I think it's a decent amount of time. I know we
try not to make too many economic changes too quickly when we do it gradually so we get good
data. If there was going to be a change, I agree, Chad. I would love to see that liquidity go into
the pool, deepen Thorchain, increase the TBL. That just sounds like a win to me. But that's my opinion.
One of the ironies here is that the quantity of rune burnt should go
burnt per block will go down
the better rune is performing. Even though we produce more
fees and whatnot, the rune price is increasing in the hypothetical
future, and therefore the amount of price is increasing in the hypothetical future.
And therefore, the amount of room that gets burnt is less.
So the quantity of room being burnt right now is, relatively speaking, very high because the room price is so low, even though the system income is also relatively low from
what it would look like in a more bullish market.
So we had 1.2 million, I think the number you just said uh that's been burned like
if we were to go into bear market for the next year we would probably burn a lot less than 1.2
million room we'd probably burn you know i don't know i couldn't even guess the meta but right
less than 1.2 for sure right yeah yeah um i i agree it makes sense to me um that's what i personally
um someone says burn the burn.
Well, brun the burn, Estonians.
They don't know how to do English, poor guy.
This is how we got hodled, right?
Just typos, right?
Yeah, there you go, yeah.
That's how hodled came.
I think it was a Reddit post in like 2011 or something like that.
That's when it said hold, but they just typoed a hodl,
and it just obviously just
cut cut wind yeah that's awesome estonians make a new lingo boone are you trying to say something
here mike oh i was just gonna echo you i mean i mean denny you asked me to write up this adr so
i did um i did yeah people keep asking me people ask me they're like oh when are we gonna do pol
at and i was like boone maybe you should write something up because everyone keeps asking me so yes i was yeah and a lot of this is downstream
of a twitter post i made last year which was suggesting just repurposing the burn towards
pol just because it's in my opinion i'm glad you guys agree it's a far better use of that revenue
um like and it's like it's it's not one-to-one, but it's also functionally kind of half of a burn, right?
Because half of that revenue goes into a locked liquidity pool that wouldn't reenter
circulation.
Now, there's a big caveat, of course, because it's a X, K, Y pool.
And as the prices rebalance, ruin will enter K, Y pool. And as the, you know, the price is rebalanced, Ruin will enter and exit that
pool. So it's not a static, you know, half of the half of PLL would be a burn, but it's still a burn.
So, you know, you can't argue it's not some of it. There's some percent that will never
reenter circulation and it'll earn income. It'll grow the pie. It'll snowball itself. I mean, to me,
it's just a no brainer and I'm not trying to hijack this with a burn, no burn conversation,
but yeah, that's where it all came from. And so like, it's just, it's just a superior use of that
same money we're already doing. Like instead of bribing people to hold green, which like may
raise the price a little bit, like this is just directly increasing liquidity which increases
swap swap quality so time and um slippage amount and so that you'll earn more swaps and then the
arbitrage income as well will go up i mean to me it's just a no-brainer yeah and you're not
hijacking anything boon we've talked about this numerous times on the live stream and prior and
it's in dev discord so this is you know the ad ADR is just it is the product of just people talking about this all the time
And I appreciate you writing it up just to get this conversation moving and yeah
I agree. I agree. I think appeal well ad is just better than a burn
But I know maybe we spark about do a bargain guys 2.5% 2.4 anything
I think if we just get something in the PUL,
that'll at least move us in the right direction.
So absolutely.
Someone is requesting for you to show your abs, Boone.
You do not have to do that.
Wait, wait, wait.
Why does Boone get to show his abs and not me?
All right.
You guys know how to, how do I turn around this,
how do I turn around this camera?
What?
Do we know?
I'm going to turn my camera off because I'm just going to be too
jealous.
There we go.
Oh, yeah.
Pixelated abs, baby.
Let's go.
Can Boon be the official hottie of Thor Chain Protocol?
Oh, man.
I may be.
Yeah, dude.
We got to get something else hit.
Go ahead, Boone.
For all you ladies watching, I'm 6'3 and 220.
Oh, man.
He's got Finance Bro, 6'20.
What was that thing on socials a few months ago?
What is that?
Finance Bro, Six Fleet, Trust Fund, whatever the hell that thing on socials like a few months ago was that like finance bro six feet
Trust fund whatever the hell that yeah
That's boom I got brown eyes unfortunately
Blue eyes
Blue eyes six feet and trust or I don't know what the hell the saying was
Yeah, you got you got you got more bet you got better genetics than myself
I'm 5 foot 11 like when I stand next to Chad, I look like a baby.
It's incredible how tall he is and how tall you probably are.
And by the way, guys, I forgot to mention Chad.
I'm so glad Boone came up.
That reminds me.
You guys, we are having a get-together at BTC Las Vegas.
I don't know if you can make that, Chad.
But Kenton wants to organize something.
Does anyone know a good software for just RVSP and just getting an aggregation of people who figure out who wants to organize something. Does anyone know a good software for just a RVSP
and just getting an aggregation of people
who figure out who wants to come?
What's it called? Party time?
What is it called?
Party time?
Not party time.
It's something like that, but that's not it.
Part something?
Partiful. Partiful.
Partiful.
I don't know how to spell it.
Oh, that was a terrible way to spell it.
That's not right at all.
I just phonetically typed typed out like a retard.
Coke.
Figure out that app.
Bring it to me.
Bring it to me, Estonian.
That's what your job is right there.
P-A-R-T-I-F-U-L.
Partiful.
F-U-L.
F-U-L.
There we go.
Okay, hopefully I did that.
And if you come, you can feel Boone's abs yeah
we'll put that well we probably should charge for this we're gonna charge
room this is how we're gonna fund the Treasury going forward is we're gonna
we're gonna I'll share a tip address you guys can donate to my rune
address uh we could do arm wrestling competitions we could get some gambling going on it's las vegas
you guys we gotta do the slap you see the slap contest there you go there you go you gotta do
like a rune slap contest right and you just like get two people and just slap each other but the first one to pass out loses.
This is just unbelievable.
I love it.
Yeah, and have an extra bet. Yes, absolutely.
This is great, you guys.
We're coming up with ideas.
Whenever we all get together, we always have a fun time, guys.
We've been through a lot this year and everyone's
feeling good. Chad's feeling good. I'm feeling good.
The volume's up. The PRs
are shipping. Hugen's working. Let's all hang out, you guys.
I think we've deserved some time to
spend some time together and just really
share our experience because it's been a wild year.
Chad, it's in April. I think it's
April 27th, 29th or something like that. Do you know
if by chance we can make it? No stress.
I know you're busy.
Maybe. I have to check my schedule.
I'm not sure off the top of my head, but if I can make it,
I'll try to make it.
That'd be awesome. Yeah, we're going to have a good time, guys.
If anyone wants to go shooting or anything like that, I'll probably arrange something like that. Or if you want to just hang out and drink or whatever, smoke cigars.
Hopefully not the shooting and drinking at the same time.
Yeah, that would be less ideal.
Those are separate, right?
Yes, that would be less ideal.
You know, it depends how crazy we get.
You know, we'll see what happens, you know what I mean?
We'll have different tracks., drinking track, shooting track,
and slapping fireworks track.
And then also a slap track.
Oh, that's going to be fun.
All right.
This has been a super fun live stream.
Then thank you guys, everybody for your questions.
Yeah.
27th, 28th and 29th of April.
Thank you very much, buddy.
I appreciate you putting in.
That is when the thing is, I don't know what day.
We still have to rent.
We need a venue and a time and a date.
We've got to figure all that out, guys.
So maybe just give us some tips, a hintful,
if you guys want to go to a certain place.
Kenton really wants to put this on, and I do too.
I think it would be great.
So all right.
Chad, did you have anything else?
I think we're talking about abs and stuff.
I think we're about exhausted on topics here.
I want to keep talking about abs.
There you go.
I want to see Boone's 8-pack.
There you go.
Just kidding.
No, I think that's about it for me.
I'll see everybody next Thursday.
We'll be here again.
Yeah, me too. Boone, did you have any final words? And then if not, I'm going to go ahead and do the outro, for me and i'll see everybody next thursday we'll be here we'll be here again yeah i'd meet you and
boone did you have any final words and then if not i'm gonna go ahead and do the outro and uh
we'll call it good no no i'm uh super bullish on where the protocol is going it's great to have
solana back i'm very excited for rapid swaps so hopefully all the kinks have been worked out of that. Oh, actually, I will take a tiny soapbox here.
So often people celebrate as soon as we ship something and then inevitably there's some like,
Oh, hold on, we got to fix this. Let's all like slow down a little bit.
Let's not hype things up until all the kinks have been worked out.
Right. So like, let's not hype up soul until soul's solid just
the general request for the whole community just to like slow down a little bit so we don't like
like the the tc intern the four chain twitter handle was like celebrating soul and it was
turned off that's just like a bad book so fair enough yeah i yeah i think that's a fair criticism
and that was forwarded to them and they are aware of it. I think what they do, those guys are busy.
They do all kinds of articles and stuff.
And they have tweets that are in a queue and lined up.
Yeah, it's like pre-play.
I understand, but it's still not a good look.
Yeah.
Yeah, they need to take a second just to double-check that things are solid
before they push submit.
Right?
Yeah, that's good criticism.
And it was forward
to them thank you for that boon and others have been saying that as well so uh we want to be
better we're going to be better um guys so we're growing in maturity and sophistication
i'm just saying everybody you know yeah yes just like the whole community is like slow down
think there's always unforeseen problems let's just like wait to make sure things are worked out
first right absolutely
go work out instead of doing saying things like that you guys get you got to get on boon's level
guys come on get that get that apac though i want a bunch of uh bodybuilders on thor chain how badass
would that be you know what i mean to come to vegas no one's just like you know what i mean
they got the spandex they're all oiled up you know what i mean they got that fake tan on dude just
like and they've got like rune symbols all over their body dude let's do it let's go you guys the
guy from chain flips that looks like the kid from the wimpy kid diary you know
a bunch of like jack dudes and like with thor chain logo t-shirts and there's like one guy
with like chain flipping the kid from the diary of a wimpy kid, you know. Shots fired.
Shots fired.
I love it.
Chain flip.
I'm just joking with you.
Don't get too offended.
I'm just kidding.
We're all having fun here, guys.
We're all just having fun.
We're all just having fun, but shots fired.
I love it.
It's great.
Okay, you guys.
So this weekend on Saturday, we're going to have this BTC and Monero whale guy, Adam Bitcoin.
I've been interacting with him.
That's going to be a wild live stream, you guys.
I don't know what's going to happen, but this guy's really eccentric and he's fun.
So I'm really excited to have him on there.
And then, of course, next Thursday, as Chad said, we're going to do the show Thursday.
Every Thursday, have a good time, guys.
I love this show.
It's so much fun.
And it's always more fun when we're just kicking ass.
And that's exactly what we're doing.
We are kicking ass.
Always remember, guys, all the views expressed are solely based of the host and guest.
Any action taken based on information is at your own risk.
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
And lastly, guys, for the Thorchain data and insights, follow at Ray Analytics, R-A-Y-N-A-L-Y-T-I-C on X.
He does all kinds of recaps for these shows.
If you do not have time to watch the whole thing,
I totally get it.
So please do that as well.
And Chad, I'm not going to ask any more about the Go developer.
Sounds like that process is over, right?
We don't, you're not hiring anymore?
For the time being,
I am interested in hiring more in the future,
but not in this current moment.
Not this time.
Okay, well, we'll put that on the back burner
and we'll take it there, guys.
And, oh, and one more thing, guys.
If anyone's out there wants to be a node operator,
please reach out to at runetard on X
and we'll get you set up.
We'll get you bond providers.
We want to increase the decentralization of the network.
You guys have seen how bullish ThorChain is.
Now, if you want to be a node operator,
there's not going to be a
better time with Brune at this price. So get in there, learn. We will help you. We want you.
Please join. And that's going to be it, you guys. Chad, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
I hope everyone has a great rest of your week. We will see you Saturday. Bye, everybody.
