Everyone I think we're just waiting for the data fill up for the space to fill up a bit bit more
And then what we'll begin with our conversation with today
Okay, I think I think we can begin the conversation so
Talk about how to dial we're joined by
Punkar is that how I pronounce it from how to dial
co-founder of Bankless consult
Do you want to maybe do a brief introduction to yourself?
Definitely. So yeah in this how to dial profile Punkar
Yeah, we started to help it down couple years ago. We take shula
Book so we started writing a book
Which is after a couple years of writing and interviewing different people from the dial ecosystem should be published
around September this year
With Bing Bing Random House
For us and you know, we also do
Conferences around the world. So the next one is in Dubai. So if you are on token
Check how doubt at XYZ and sign up for our event to learn more and more deaths and myself
I also co-founded Bankless consulting
Mostly early stage project and their web 3, you know, build their governance structure
Because I also like fitness. I started to work out the doubt. So that's a doubt dedicated to
We are expanding it as we speak so and
I'm glad to be here and also I'm glad that we could partner for our big 400 people. I went
in Denver with always this protocol because they do
Great things and for the doubt space
Yeah, thank you so much we loved the how to doubt event, you know, I think
Dows and just like decentralizing, you know these things that
you know traditionally just number three a web to or in traditional finance, but
They you know, maybe do it in a centralized way
As has always been like sort of a passion for oasis
And I'm definitely for myself and it was the event of the eat ember
It was probably one of my favorite events that I've ever been into in web 3. So thank you so much for it for putting that on
And yeah the way says, you know the Dow's and decentralized governance has been
Along something that we focused on
We've had like a lot of articles about the need to add confidentiality out to the house
In order for them to be adequately decentralized and things of this nature
I'm sure we'll talk a bit more about that later, but maybe
For now, the best place to start is just you know recapping
What would those are and what are their key?
Characteristics and maybe you can share some reasons why you think that they're so important to web 3
Yeah, definitely and also this is nice that we are starting with that because every single
Event we do we also start with the same talk
It's from different person usually and in different view, but it's always like what is the doubt?
um, so I will give you my view on the down because I believe there are multiple views, but
My view of the Dow is that now
Or you know, uh community
basically to coordinating
some effort for a common goal and that's what I would say they have all kind of uh
similar however, what's the difference between dow and let's say traditional web 2 type of coordination is
That we are introducing the new
Economic system within the uh organization so
Now, uh, the organization can have their own like incentive program. Maybe their own currency
Like basically like internal economic system which can be connected to other economic systems within
Uh the crypto space. So we are really creating kind of like
New I would say economical primitive within the coordination. So that's kind of how I see dao differ from
You know the way like, uh, i'm not
Too much on that side like that, you know
Dao differs in the decentralization because I believe
There can be flat organizations as well
uh in web 2 and we can see it with like, you know the
agile adoption and uh, you know amazon like uh, very famous like
Uh size themes which are very kind of autonomous and they build uh new stuff
You can see that also in netflix where they have this, uh
Rules, uh where like everyone is kind of responsible for what they are doing what they are achieving and the teams are
You know very autonomous and the whole organization is decentralized, but it's not a doubt because they do not have any
Internal economical system and they are not connecting, uh to the like crypto, uh economics
So that's where where I uh kind of draw
Draw the line, uh mostly and why they are important, uh
It's a ball way it's evolution. So, you know, we had a couple
Revolutions, uh, or like, you know progress, uh in our history, you know, like, uh, we got
Uh before we got like, uh, maybe cars instead of horses
Uh, even before that like, uh, we started like
Um doing like accounting and with that like landing so you could actually borrow money for some some of your
Uh ventures and so on so there's like different things which happened in the in the history to improve
Overall economical growth and value creation and I believe this is just another step
In that so, you know as we are introducing the new economical system
I believe it can empower more entrepreneurs to actually pursue
Their dreams build successful companies create more value for the overall society
And then our like say global gdp will be just growing faster because we
Uh create another enabler. So that's how see, uh, this can really revolutionize. Uh, you know the overall
Economy of the world and you know, as I said, like I think it will also empower
Get access to the two things they need to actually build their company
so it won't be anymore like just the hegemon's like, you know facebook and
Um all the amazon and so on but I think with
Uh this new kind of introducing of the internal economical system
I think we can empower also the smaller entrepreneurs to be more successful and grow
Yeah for sure and I think you know at least the way that I think about
Maybe the vaguest way to think about the hours are the most high level is just like it's a coordinate
It's a coordination mechanism that's empowered by web3 so that you know that it has
You know high integrity and a trustless nature
And I think like a lot of focus, um has been put on you know
You know defi and like dows and how they relate to the companies in terms of governance
um, but you know what we're starting to see I think is um
A lot a lot of other places looking for governance and high integrity
Um, you mentioned that you have like a workout dow
Maybe you can just explain like what that dow's goal is and how that that was being architected
so we have very early, uh, of course we have a token but
As of now it's not uh, you know, uh, it's not like economic system in a sense, but we are like
Couple different structures, uh for workout down. So I would say at this point we are in like
What would work the best?
Uh the the end goal and the end goal
global health and fitness network, which is
owned and governed by people who are contributing to it, so
Like uh, you have this like gym chains if you are in the united states, I think one of the biggest chain it's a planet fitness
Or you know, there will be probably others in uh,
euro, I think planet fitness is actually in europe as well these days, uh
But you know, it's not really governed by the community. It's like a centralized company
Like which operates a chain
What we want to do it's more like there is a private gym like in your in your city
There is a gym which mike or some other person really interested in fitness
Owns and we want to help them to connect to this global network
So anyone can kind of use the property, but also they get access, uh to the whole network and they get stake
Uh in a network, so they will be more
incentivized to provide, you know better better services, so
I know, uh, I don't want to keep it too long about this, but really what?
You said well, it's what we are trying to do. We are trying to coordinate
around the same goal, which is
provide, you know, health and fitness
trainings and like, you know empower people to
to actually be healthy, uh
Within uh within the whole world and
We we have we don't know yet how we get there all the way
But we know that this can be really nice like doubt can be really nice
Framework how we can start and people as they get more involved can actually help us grow
Yeah, that sounds amazing, um, I can't wait to learn more as you guys, you know build out the dal and um,
It's really just amazing like sort of what can be done, uh in the web3 space. I think you you mentioned like
Experimentation that's what I think we see a lot from from dallas
One area that I think dallas are just beginning to experiment with is privacy. So i'd love to get some thoughts on
Why you think uh privacy might be important for dallas? Um
Yeah, and where it fits in
Maybe back to the previous point. Well, if you want to get involved actually first what we are doing it's
Workouts like rounds we did some bouldering as well around the three conferences
So if you are at nftnyc or paris blockchain week or token
Uh, there is a workout plan for the community so you can you know meet other people you can network a little bit
Burnt, uh, so you can just check
Workout.com and there's all events. So this is kind of first step to make it global in a in a little sense
And you know get the community, uh together and regarding the privacy part so
I would say for work out now there might not be
Necessarily like need for the privacy because people might want to like actually show, you know, they
Just finished the workout. They burned that many calories. They you know, uh, ride so many miles or so
Um, you can think about it like a strava like everyone loves to brag about what they have done. Uh
And that's fine. And that's kind of one of the use cases, but
It's not everything, you know, it's not everything what you want to brag about
on the other side you have things like
So you have elections for you know, presidential elections in united states now like big
Some people definitely, you know, love to say who they are voting for but it can be very sensitive topic. Uh
Some people just don't want their neighbor to know that they vote for either
Biden or trump, uh, you know because that can leave a hard their relationship
However, they still feel very strongly about what uh, they have been voting for
And the same thing can happen within the doubts space. So at this point
I would say 99 percent of the voting and like decision making it's out in public. So if I
Really don't like the proposal and I put you know that I i'm big delegate I put I don't like it
There's a couple things which will happen
First if I'm like influential enough
Many people will follow so basically i'm influencing the decision of other people
You know submit the proposal
They might not like me anymore
Because I kind of shut them down
Which is fair in a sense, but also like
Yes, and no voting doesn't say everything, you know, there needs to be conversation
Health and that can be held, you know before or after but like during the voting people see just yes or no
It might be more valuable for the whole community if
The the voting itself it's actually happening in private. So
I will not get influenced by decisions of others. I will also not get influenced by
Mike who just published this proposal. He's a good friend of mine. I should just approve it. Uh, well
I'm delegate first for the for the dow or the you know, like big stakeholder in the dow
Like mike is a friend, but this is kind of a business. So we need to be you know, very much about that
private I would be more probably honest because
It doesn't make me feel bad if I just like say no
And then talk to mike how to maybe adjust uh the proposal
So I think privacy makes sense in some some of this kind of uh situation. But as I mentioned before
Maybe not in other and you know, it's a great and you probably know more about this than I do, you know, like
Oasis what they are building. It's kind of like you don't need to decide to be totally private
At all like you you can actually decide like this this is what I want
To be private, um, you know and I can I can set it up
Uh pretty easily at least that's what I saw on the on the demo
Uh in denver so it's not like, you know
You need to like decide like that you want to be
Totally private private chain type of thing
But like this is more like, you know, you can build on top of your dow this like kind of privacy layer
Uh, which I think it's really cool
Yeah, yeah, thank you for mentioning that I think that's probably one of the things that we
Are most proud of that oasis is is building a framework where?
Each dapp or each dow or you know each developer gets to choose
You know which aspects of state they want to keep encrypted and confidential and which aspects they want to make public
It doesn't have to be this rigid setup
When you're setting up a dow and like how you want to make it confidential you really have all the tools that you need
And it's as simple as just building in solidity, especially if you build native you're down natively on sapphire
But there are also ways to do it where you can um to deploy your dow, you know on other networks and you can just keep
Certain mechanisms on sapphire and then communicate to the main dow through cross-chain messaging
And this is I think yeah, one of the things that we focused on a lot is you know
How can we empower web 3 to use privacy in the way that they need on the network that they need?
Um, you know in the most user friendly and developer friendly way. Thank you so much for mentioning that
No, I think I think this is great like because you know, uh, let's say, you know example work out
Like I didn't think about privacy now because I don't see the use case
But there there might be use case in the future
And like as you said like you can basically
Start on another chain and then you can build up on top of it
Uh, which is great because sometimes you just don't know that you need it till you need it
Yeah, yeah, and even as you were saying it, you know, I didn't want to interject but you said like, you know
People want to brag about how many calories they burned or how long they worked out and that's true
Like I think probably people want to share that information, right?
Um, but at the same time, um, maybe they don't want to share which shim they're going to right?
They don't want to share their gps location, um, because maybe that
Um is is personal and sensitive and it might share too much about them
Uh, or perhaps they only want to share it with people, you know
If we think about the social media example
You have like a friends list, right and only your friends are able to see this information but you don't share it with like the whole world
Um, so maybe it's like this sort of selected disclosure where you share it with, you know
People that you are connected with within the dow or within next web 3
Um, but you don't share it with anyone else. So you keep it hidden on the blockchain
From from people that you don't want to see but you share it with people that you do want to see
And I think that goes back to this example of like we built a very flexible network
It allows people to make these decisions
I think the great thing is like maybe
You don't agree with that
Maybe maybe you think that you know people will want to share it with everyone or they don't care about their gps location
And that's fine. So then we can make it entirely transparent
um, but yeah, that's that's like the way that I think about it is just like
There's no reason not to use it because if you have
You know if you want to be transparent, you can do everything you can do on any other network
But if you want to be confidential, you can do something here that you can't do anywhere else
Yeah, that's a that's a great point actually, yeah, uh, and and I agree with you like the privacy topic is uh, very much about like
Different people have different like sensitivity to it. So
For example, I would be okay to share my gps location
What gym of time i'm going to work out if someone wants to kind of hang out with me there
But some people would be very much like I don't want to know people like where they can find me
And kind of you know, maybe they have problem with stalkers or something
And this is definitely what they don't want to show so I I agree with you
There can be like, you know great use cases around that
Yeah, maybe I don't know maybe some celebrity, you know wants to join the dow and connect with everyone and be feel part of the
Sort of community but at the same time, you know, if they show everyone what they're doing all the time then
They'll have you know, the paparazzi after them
I'd love to know like more like have you thought about privacy in the past and what what technologies have you you know?
Considered or if you've considered any
Or what do you see happening in the privacy space outside of sapphire for dows?
Um, so i've been part of uh, arstan young e-boy blockchain team
Uh, and what we've been building and also we open source, uh called nightfall
so nightfall it's basically like a
zero knowledge solution for
There the use case was there was
Uh, really like if you want to be kind of interacting with your uh vendors and customers like
You might want to show like track the goods and that people see that like it
At this factor rate and this storage for that amount of time and it was the temperature
So, you know, it should be still fresh when it's going to the store or something
That might you might want that to be public because like you want to
Showcase that like it's very fresh or like, you know
something around the product, uh
But you don't want to show
Like the money flow like how much you actually paid for that like how much one vendor paid for
Maybe even the quantity, you know, you don't want to show to your competitors. How much you are actually buying from
From that particular vendor because it might be your competitive advantage. Uh,
So what we really try to do there it's like
You know stuff so using zk to basically, you know prove that
That good or product or whatever like went from one party to another without actually disclosing
All the details, uh about it which could have been revealed only by the parties
Involved so, you know i've been um, and it uh i've been
working on that since like 2018, um
When we open source it at devcon prop
Uh, and the team is still working
Uh on it. I believe i'm not part of that
But that's how I got into privacy and like
I think that's where I realized like that privacy. It's actually very important for
Of use cases like, you know people who never been in supply chain management would say like well
Like why we won't disclose those?
You know numbers and like
Uh, why it's so important we can just put everything on blockchain. It will be fine
You know like well, you know if you're a competitor snow for how much you are buying the goods
Maybe they can actually offer
Uh to your vendor to actually not sell to you but sell to them
And there can be a very complicated, uh kind of battle because some of this stuff
It's your competitive advantage and if you reveal it to your competitor they can actually act upon it and like really make your life
harder, so that's where you know the privacy really
When we get more more to the dow space
It's very similar like there might be some some things which like doubt them on to disclose like it's
As any other businesses some things are very confidential
For a reason it's not that like you are hiding something, but it's just like if other people know about it
You might lose the advantage you have and it will be over for our business
So that's also how i'm thinking about dows and privacy
Like one what I mentioned before is the voting but the other is dow is a business
Or some of the dows are business like some of the staff needs to stay confidential
because that's made their competitive advantage and
Now we have everything pretty much public. So
There is you know, they might be losing some of some of the value they actually could have created and that's where
We might want to introduce like additional privacy like have some internal discussion really in private
They are happening now in private, but then they go on forum. Maybe the forum should be only for
You know for eyes of internal people not for everyone. I don't know that's just examples
But there can be some business decisions, uh, which will require
Uh privacy for dows in the future, I believe
Yeah, yeah, and i'm glad you mentioned those, you know, I think
Um a lot of our discussion have been at oasis, you know, our public discussions have been about
Um, you know the governance aspects, uh, sort of what you talked about earlier, which is to eliminate bias, right?
The bias of seeing the vote while it happens. So like there's this ability where
Only 20 of the people have voted
But they all voted no to some some proposal
But 80 of the people actually agree with the proposal but because the 20 who didn't vote have already voted
The other 80 never vote because they all feel like their vote won't be worthwhile. The pass is unanimous
To vote no, right? So now you've you've you've hindered like a normal governance process
another example would be like
If you sometimes there's this idea of quorum, right where you need 20 percent
Let's say that it's at 19 quorum and it's gonna pass
You actually help it reach quorum. So in fact the best decision is to not vote at all
Um, because that would that's how's it get that has a greater chance of keeping the vote from passing
Um, so that's like another example. Uh, another example is just retribution, right? Where like let's say
The coo of a company and your ceo voted one way and you disagree with it
You don't really feel comfortable because you know that your ceo will see that you voted one way
Um and that you voted against him and now you know, he might make your life
Miserable going forward. So all of these forms of biases, you know, um can exist and i'm not saying they exist in every doubt
There's no real way right now and what three to fight them
Um, and that's what I think oasis sapphire is doing on the governance side
But I'm not but I appreciate that you also mentioned like these other aspects of dows
Um, because there's also like you said
There might you might want to have confidential forums or even maybe the ability to
Um confidentially just dm with like one other member of the doubt who you think you know
You want to work out you want to discuss with but you maybe don't want to share like your real
Information with you just want to have a conversation with this
Other party who seems to think along the same lines for you as you like you can't really do this on other networks
Um coordination aspect forums dming things of that nature
And then like you said treasury funding or like how how treasures are being used, you know
You might want to have you know, maybe don't you maybe you don't want to know what the salaries are of employees
um, or like, you know, maybe you want to give them a vague range, but you don't want it to be exact because
You know then you get negotiations if someone sees that this person is paid more they're gonna, you know fight with you on that
Um, I think the way that I think about all of these things are like
There's a reason in the traditional world that we have all this information confidential
These systems have been in place for a long time
These traditional world systems and the reason why this is all confidential is because we figured out that that is
The stronger way of doing it. Um
Not to say that there's not improvements. Obviously dows help decentralize things. They make it trustless
but you know, you shouldn't always just like
Throw the baby out with the bath water and I think what?
Oasis really does this just allows for that flexibility. So maybe some dows won't agree with the things I just said
But as we've already discussed at length like
Oasis allows you to to have the flexibility to do it if you wish
Or just operate like you do on other networks if you want that too
So, um, yeah, those are my thoughts on that. I don't know if you have anything else to add
Before we hop into the next question
No, I think actually the the salary part is very very interesting. Uh one
So, you know, I think it's a Sweden where you actually can see everyone's
Celery, basically, it's uh, it's a public knowledge, uh how much your neighbor, uh makes so it's not even
Within the company, but it's even beyond it's like the whole country. It's like having public knowledge of uh, what's what's your income?
And they got so used to it that they don't even think about it
like in the united states, uh
Basically, like people should not be talking about their sorry between employees
Like, you know, you have it in the contract that you cannot disclose it to anyone because they don't want to know that
Like they don't want the employees to know who has the highest salary and everyone will try to negotiate to that
I'm not sure what what's better
In a sense what's that again?
Okay, before you finish speaking. I think i'm having some time right here
Yeah, I can hear you okay, uh, yeah, I thought that you wanted to say something but like
some technical difficulties
Oh, no worries. No worries. Uh
Yeah, what I wanted to say like I'm not sure which which way is better to go
Privacy in the in the salary can be advantageous for some people because you can negotiate higher salary
For the same position as your colleagues if you are really good at it
also, it can be advantageous for the
employer which we don't know if we want like they can basically
Try to put as little as they can so some people would just accept like very low offers
Uh, because they just don't know that they could have asked for more
And it will be like, you know, the salary gap between people and so on so forth
So i'm not sure on which side i'm on this this one because like it can be a way dangerous for employees some employees
It can be a disadvantage just for others
Um, so I think this will be very tricky question, uh to answer
Yeah, I actually didn't know that about freedom, but it is interesting and you know, uh, I think that you know, at least
Uh in industry, um, I definitely like
Always advocated for sharing, but I I do also think that it should be people's right to share
So I I don't know like you said, it's a tricky question
um, and what I again what i'm excited about is just adding that having that flexibility so that like
These more sophisticated things can be done so people could so those get to decide
You know how they want to coordinate themselves, but they're not limited by the technology
I think you know, we talked a lot about privacy, uh, and I appreciate your your opinions there
I was wondering like what else do you think is happening the dao space? That's that's interesting
Are there other technologies? Are there, you know other trends you see and like, what are you looking forward to in the future?
That's a good question. So what I see mostly in dao space, um in general
Is that the dows are a boring?
So I think that you know, it started let's say as an investment that was you know, the first the dao
And most of the dows starting after were also like just pooling resources investing, you know
Income stuff and so on and now we are you know, we branch out
Then it was like this period of time like dows were mostly for like decentralizing
Protocols so you can you know uniswap along to token one to dao, uh kind of
You know arbitrary on the same optimism done the same and everyone was like just
trying to like decentralize
One to the token and that's kind of how the dao
Happened but now I feel like we are getting more into like
Actually, there are doubts happening
It's not going to like to a drop thousands and thousands of people the token
Uh, but it's maybe just like three people four people just starting
They starting as a dao right away. They're building their startup. They're getting more
dao contributors or employees
in it and they just like the internal kind of economic systems just help them like
You know raise enough capital to
Maybe raise a little bit more later to like, you know
Continue to launch the product get some marketing and so on and it can it's like a new primitive how to actually
Start a business. It's not just it's still a lot
About like, you know, uh, there's a lot about meme coins and stuff which are not building anything
But I see the changes that they are actually like a good
product companies service companies which are starting as a dao and they they are trying like to use this primitive to
To grow, uh further. So I think that's like a general vibe or maybe even wish
You know, I hope this will kind of sustain it's not that prevalent yet
but I hope this will sustain and it will really become like
As you are starting as a c corp or other type of you know
Organization like you will start as a down
And also regulation. Uh, I think it's important to mention here. Like
Regulation is supporting this kind of move
In the Wyoming. So, you know the decentralized nonprofit organization in Wyoming
Dao there they already had the kind of llc but now they are, you know
Done additional kind of framework based on some feedback from like a 16z and other industry experts
Uh, there is also, you know dubai which is introducing
Uh for crypto asset companies with new regulation coming up also some regulation I think around daos
So, you know, hong kong, uh singapore also
Started like, you know be very friendly about that and so on so regulation is coming up. Uh, which is which is great
Like I think there are a lot of cool ideas, uh, you know what people are building, uh, and
You know why I started the work out at the first place or how to do even like
They they have a little bit different purpose, but like
I meet a lot of builders on both like, you know on how to dao like we are trying to
Get the builders introduce them to dao concept introduce them some of the primitives and help them build
On the workout dao we just like hang
Uh, and we just talk and we connect the right people together and I met so many, you know
Builders which are super excited about crypto super excited about daos and they are building cool things in any industry
You know, it's uh, it's a health care industry
Uh, it can be decentralized science, you know
Not just like defi and meme coins, but it's like all the industry we are now like plugging into like all the industries
Yeah, exactly. I think that that that's like really what i'm excited for is like seeing how daos
Can can move like you can even think about like, you know college boards or like yeah, like, uh
Grant funding for science and things like that
Like i'd love to see how the daos can uh clean up that space because you know, I know at least you know
Anecdota the little bit about like there's
All these areas for corruption or like for like, you know nepotism within like
These programs that are meant to be, you know public goods and things of that nature
Um, but and it's really like
Interesting to me to think about like what a dao could do how it could help decentralize the process how it could add trust to
And make sure that you know the people that should be getting let's say funding or resources are getting the right resources allocated to them
credentials and their their merit
Versus, you know any sort of personal bias within like a centralized committee or something like that
Um, so i'm really interested to see how that works, you know regulation also is very interesting. I think
Uh, the the industry has been asking for it for a long time at least maybe not regulation but clarity on what the regulation is
Um, I would say like the areas the one two of the areas that i'm like most interested in is just like
um to to to to expand like the sort of sophistication of daos, um
I think one of the things that is that I at least have found it that hurts it a bit is that once a dao is
Created it often slows down like progress because it just requires a lot more steps before something can be done versus a centralized system
Which is known but like how can we you know?
Basically mitigate that um while remaining decentralized and uh, you know
I've been looking at some of these spaces that are looking into like sub daos and like committees within daos. Um, I think um
Synthetics, you know, they were one of the first to have like a a council. Um
And things like that so i'd love to see like more daos start adopting. Um, you know
I like flat daos, but i'd like to see a lot more daos at least experimenting in the area of like
You know creating hierarchical daos as well
Um, I think that'll be pretty interesting. I don't know have you have you experienced a lot of that?
Maybe you have some thoughts on how that works or how it doesn't work
Yeah, uh, I think it's a good point and I don't think that like, you know
Organization which like everyone is like consensus type of organization that everyone needs to decide on everything
you know, like the there is always the argument like of Switzerland which is like basically like, uh, you know, uh, they are
Like decision makes by the by the people all the time
But there is still like operational decisions which are just made within the government and nobody needs to decide like if it's a big change
yeah, uh, we can do all the
like token holders voting, but if it's just like
small decisions within some budget and like, you know
Just make sure that like, you know, we are pushing the product or service further
We are addressing all those security needs and so on like there should be just like a team
Which is responsible for it and just do it. Um
Uh organizations, uh doing that
Uh, one of them make it out. So there was the you know, the team structure the core team structure which go to
You know budget for for a year
And then we're like executing thing on their work
And if they needed something like to be introduced into the code or something like it had to go
Through the governance for security reasons. So that kind of made sense. Uh
As people might know like they are actually
Incentivize even better the team. So as I talk about the kind of uh internal economy like
Putting it on another level, uh, because they are
Doing the internal economy within the internal economy. So the makerdao will be basically the main dao
Uh of it and then there will be subdials which will have their own token which will incentivize the contributors within the subdao
Good work. So i'm very excited to see how how that uh will work, uh for them
Uh, so, you know to to your question at the beginning like, you know
Can we be efficient as a dao space? I believe yes
Um, and there are other frameworks which are like doing more like
Let's say excess based governance
If you are a role-based governance when you already have the role you have some access you have some rights you can just execute on it
Uh lama, it's one of the frameworks, uh
Which has been built they've been contributing to
Many d5 protocols and now they build framework around it. So there is definitely, you know
Plenty of frameworks which actually can work very efficiently
I think it's just on the dao decision to kind of use them and implement them and not to be
Kind of too much stressing the point that we need to be fully decentralized
Because when when that come up like, you know
We want to be fully decentralized means everyone needs to have a say on everything that we do
Then you are getting into this very inefficient kind of loop
Yeah, yeah for sure I think I think that the next few years daos is going to be you know, pretty exciting, um
We see some of these ideas play out. Um
and hopefully we see some confidentiality added either, you know into the
potential areas of like token treasury management
Um or or governance, you know, I think these are all really, um, interesting places to start experimenting
Which I think the web3 space does well
Well, I just want to thank everyone for the time today
Um, I want to know do you have any like announcements anything you want to share before closing thoughts before we sign off say goodbye to everybody
Yeah, so thank you for joining I hope you like it, um
You want to catch up around daos and you know building in web3. Uh, my dms are open. Uh, so my
Uh twitter account either you can use how to dao or uh, punkar dao. So add punkar dao
Or add punkar on telegram, uh, and happy happy to chat
Uh more and if you are you know fitness and health enthusiast, uh
Or talent enthusiast like join us for workout down which will be april 15 new york april 8 in
In dubai, uh, so you can check all at workout. Uh dot com or my profile has all the links so and thanks will
Uh, thanks for inviting me and working with us and we we hope to work with you
Together at some other event in the future. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us today punkar
uh, it was a great discussion, um
You had to surely think about daos a lot and um, yeah
I i'll see if I i'm only an hour outside new york city
So we'll see if I can stop by maybe we can meet up in in uh, new york
Yeah, that will be amazing
awesome, um for everyone else just on the oasis side of things
Uh, we got a lot going on
So always follow our twitter and uh, you know our different socials to keep up with what's going on in the ecosystem
And then we'll also be at eat them. Uh in a big way, um starting. I think april 11th. So, uh
Yeah, if anyone's in the area or attending the conference stop by say hi, um, and we'd love to meet you
Anyway, thanks everyone for joining us for this conversation and I hope you all have a great day