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Addressing the Allegations
Recorded: Sept. 30, 2025 Duration: 2:10:12Space Recording
Short Summary
The discussion highlights the evolving landscape of Abstract, with a focus on the recent launch of Kona, which has achieved over 1 million TVL, and the community's growing optimism about the platform's potential. Participants emphasized the importance of user feedback, community engagement, and the need for transparency in driving growth and improving the overall experience on the chain.
Full Transcription
Thank you. yo what's going on guys uh uh so we already got requests um and already have two people listening anonymously
i wonder who they are uh yeah what's going on guys i wanted to do an early
space because later i have the wi-fi people coming i'm gonna be kind of busy
taking care of that and then we're getting back to streaming again tomorrow i'm gonna be hopping on the bodagos uh live stream in the morning
they want to talk about abstract talk about the market so i can do that and then maybe if i get
my internet fixed by by later tonight i can hop on stream with craig and greenie so we'll see but yeah honestly the title
is kind of i don't know not super serious i woke up and i just saw a bunch of people commenting
about uh things that were said on the space earlier i thought it was kind of interesting
and also you know i think there's still stuff in abstract that are worth talking about today.
So if anyone wants to come up and talk, request.
There's not really a format to this, but I'd love to kind of just chat.
The sentiment for abstract feels like, I mean, it's a pretty subjective meter to gauge, but it feels like we bottomed uh sentiment wise tvl wise and all that
kind of stuff who knows um ideally it won't go lower than here but uh you know we've seen the
team uh notably sygar kind of step up and communicate more take feedback and start to transition into uh to taking actionable steps which i i think is a
really really good indicator and you know the abstract team right now luca finn raj mason
like you know they're traveling in asia right now they're kind of busy with that
so i'm not really expecting uh you know big things to happen until they get back
or like big communication uh until they're done with all that because they are throwing abstract
events and traveling so looking forward to when they get back and seeing what happens but you
know we have a lot of stuff that's been going on we have lps uh have been and defy has been getting
a lot more play right now.
In Abstract, Kona went live.
I think they're over 1 million TVL right now.
People have been getting XP for providing liquidity, which is a great sign.
I think, again, the more verticals we have for people to earn XP, the better.
And to reward people for actually providing LP. Providing
liquidity is a win. When you're providing liquidity, it's usually your incentive is
you're making money on fees, but we're being honest with each other. We don't have enough
volume on chain for people to really eat on fees. So until we get to that point, I think the XP
benefits are pretty awesome
so that's it but yeah again
guys if you want to talk if you want to
have hot takes you want to discuss stuff
cover some things that have been happening on
abstract hop on request
we got
no bars held Jesus
what's going on
you got me or no What's going on?
You got me or no?
Yeah, I can hear you now.
Yeah, my damn AirPods aren't connecting.
Yeah, I was in the space earlier.
I've been seeing all the stuff.
You know, I've been around since day one, even before then of abstract. I've seen the sentiment go up and down. I'm constantly watching the Dune board,
you know, in my space every day, we talk abstract quite a bit, you know, and I actually lost a lot
of audience because we talk about abstract so much, which is pretty wild uh and uh so now we're slowly
like gaining people back more and more and um you know it's so hard because it's like people are
afraid to people are afraid to speak out when they see something that they don't like but at the same time like you know it's
abstracts just it's growing pains you know what i mean um and a lot of the stuff that's going on
is no different than when solana came out you know it's just you have so much more attention
on it because luke's name and luke is tied to it and pudgies are tied to it and um I think most of the stuff is all a
bunch of bullshit um I think the team is doing a fantastic job I think they listen to the community
really well and they adapt and change and and fix things on the platform and address things
I talked to Finn in DMs you know quite a bit. I was part of a team that was with Abstract.
So from some, I have some perspective there of how that goes.
You know, there's just so many things that were touched on this morning in Sam's space that I knew were 100% bullshit.
Can you, so I was at the gym.
Could you give me, you know,
some of the things that you felt were bullshit
that were brought up?
Yeah, like one of the biggest things
was like the referral code thing.
And then like basically claiming that
if you go into a, you know,
if you go into a game of the new user
and say you go to gotcha
and you go in on your own will and not using like your code or my code,
that it immediately assigns an abstract referral code.
Well, it used to be the same way when I was with Gambler.
To me, it's a way for them to track where things are going.
These teams aren't paying back, you know,
abstract hundreds of thousands of dollars for their, you know,
for, for users coming into the, from the, from the actual portal, you know?
So like there was no transactions going back out like monetary transactions so i
think a lot of these teams are doing that for tracking purposes because if if a new user just
sees this from somebody's tick tock and they go in and they create an abs there's no referral
system for abstract in in general you know well you have so so basically like the the whole argument
is if i go to the portal right
now and i go to and i go to the discover page and let's say i click uh whatever like if i if i click
myriad if i click gigaverse or whatever like those they have an embedded link for uh for abstracts
referral code uh exactly okay and yeah but the argument is saying
that was one of the arguments all the money from those referral codes right like exactly yeah but
they were like they were trying to they did it live on the space like we couldn't see nothing
on video i don't know why in the fuck they weren't on video um but they like uh this bullish trader
guy did it live on video or live with the space and they created a new wallet or whatever.
And they could see you could see the transaction like you could see it happen.
But it's like they're not getting any money back.
Gotcha is not sitting here shilling out fucking tons of money, you know, back.
None of these apps are doing that.
It's just for tracking purposes in general
is what i believe because i remember we would see referrals come in and it would show abstract at
like 15 000 referrals for on gambler's side of things so that's like that's 15 000 plus
participants that went to the gambler site and created an account by thinking there might be a badge or
something abstract wasn't taking any money from those referrals okay got it no no no no no and
I don't think it happens with any of these other products as well um I can't speak to that but I
know Finn well enough um I've talked to Raj before he was, I knew Raj before he was even at Abstract, worked with him at a few other projects. And, you know, no, I just,
a lot of the stuff is misinformation.
A lot of these attacks are happening when these guys aren't around, you know,
to, they're in a totally different time zone, bro. They're all sleeping, you know?
So I just, you know, I just don't agree with it.
I don't think none of that is uh i think
it's just like baseless claims um you know and then i was in there for probably about the last
30 minutes because i had to leave for myspace at 11. um you know and i wish they would have
had it on stream so we could have seen some of that stuff uh like actually unfold as it so i'm
just curious so you said um it's
kind of unrelated but not really so you said that when you guys locked in only on talking
about abstract you you ended up losing listeners yeah we lost like because we went in abstract
like i said day one so obviously everybody was excited on day one. You could see the Dune analytics. You can,
you can see how much activity and wallet transactions were happening. So abstract was
really hot. And then I would say after that, I think it was the second large activation, maybe
after the Red Bull thing is when it started kind of going down. But we would literally, we spend about 20, 30 minutes a day on abstract
and related products and apps. And so, yeah, we noticed a significant, I mean, we were,
we would average anywhere from 80 to a hundred plus in the space every day.
And the more we would talk about abstract, I could go back and look at the spaces and analytics
and see when we talked about abstract and the
numbers drop and then there's never people never came back in so a lot of people that were in my
spaces just didn't care about abstract and why i don't know i don't know if they just they've never
given it a try or never came over um and it was it was really interesting interesting you know seeing that happen
and a lot of people
are involved with it
that I follow and that follow me
and that come in the spaces
but you know
a lot of people are just staying away
because there's really low liquidity
and I think that's one of the biggest
reasons the meme coins are having problems and um and even
nfts in a way I mean there's some good brands over there that have really strong teams that deserve
way higher floor prices than than what they're at yeah and I I do think it's it's chicken or the egg
uh you know part of it's we don't have liquidity because no one's here but no one's here
because we don't have liquidity so i think at one point one of those things is going to have to tip
and it'll it'll help the other one but yeah i i just thought it was interesting because for me
it's like the opposite the more i went into abstract the better my you know my engagement
did my growth did but i guess when you're doing a daily show like you where you're covering
you know tons of things more of a broad market when you lock in a more specific thing you're doing a daily show like you where you're covering you know tons of things more of a broad market when you lock in a more specific thing you're kind of going to tune out the people
who are interested in the other aspects so yeah we shifted we shifted very hard into abstract like
when it went live bro it was like full fucking speed and we haven't let up any we we've we've
quit talking about it as long because it would consume us for like an hour plus
because there was so much to talk about. And now when we talk about it for too long, then people
start fudding and bitching about stuff. And I'm like, well, there's still opportunities to make
money. There's still opportunities over there to explore new things. I'm a huge advocate for Myriad. And, you know, I don't have holdings in big, but I do have holdings with, you know, with Skux, who's building a big vault. And like, so there's other things there to do that, you know, I just, I don't know, I think people sometimes let the narrative on the timeline control their actions.
the narrative on the timeline control their actions and you know with liquidity so broken
up and so fragmented all over the space that it's it's hard to get you know it's it's look
at everything flew to aster and then you know what i mean so like yeah yeah it's it's more
competitive than it's ever been for sure 100 yeah no i appreciate that uh kekov you had your hand
up and then we'll go to bolsa after. What's up, Kekov?
Yeah, yeah, what's up?
Hello, everyone.
So first of all, I've just joined this space because I see you guys love Abstract,
and I actually love this chain too
because it's really developing so fast.
And I don't know, but this week,
I actually learned that Polymarket is live uh with abstract and uh
this is this is actually crazy that you can that you can you know that on prediction markets with
abstract i mean the meta is shifting into prediction market wait is that wait can can
someone check is that true i don't i don't think so where'd you see that yeah i don't think so. Where did you see that? Yeah, I don't think that's true.
Really?
No, I mean, we have Myriad Markets, which is a prediction market on Abstract.
But I don't think Polly...
No, I don't think Polly Market is on Abstract.
Okay, okay, guys.
Maybe it's about Deposit only.
I mean, you can, you know, Dep on Amstruct, but you can check it.
I'm pretty sure I saw it.
Either way.
I'm looking right now.
You can check.
But yeah, either way, keep going.
My fault.
I didn't mean to cut you off.
Yeah, okay.
Sorry.
Maybe I just, you know, missed.
But I think that actually, I mean, Polymarket is available to deposit money in on abstract i'm
pretty sure about that um but yeah if someone can check it and just tell me it's gonna be all right
but anyway i'm listening what you're saying about the spaces about abstract and uh your uh you ali
said that your engagement went up when you started talking about
abstract you know i've joined a lot of spaces this month and i love when uh someone like you
host these spaces about uh an actual product one exact one exact project and uh where we all can discuss it you know an easy way just chill and share ideas
about it and the abstract is booming i don't want to say that i'm bullish or something like that
because i'm not an everyday user but as i see a lot of meme coins, a lot of, you know, ecosystem overall is developing.
And, you know, TGE is coming, I think, maybe not this year.
But anyway, Abstract is delivering, you know, it's shipping.
So, yeah, this is pretty cool.
And thank you for having me here and like spaces like that.
That's all, guys.
Appreciate it. Thank you. All all right so i just checked uh you cannot directly deposit funds using east uh abstract
east or usde or anything usdce nothing nothing abstract yeah i didn't i didn't think so um yeah i think polymarket is on polygon right i i maybe you kekov you saw the seed campaign with
myriad markets and it's also a prediction market um and there you thought polymarket yeah the only
thing myriad uses is either linear um and then myriad has a built-in bridge inside of it
so you can bring in multiple tokens into Myriad.
But that's it.
Got it.
Okay.
Guys, if you haven't already,
share the space, bottom right, purple button, whatever.
Hit retweet, whatever space this host is supposed to say.
And anyone can
request come up here talk if you've got a hot take if you if there's something you want to
talk about abstract related uh you know i kind of want to keep the abstract just because it's
not going to be a super long space so i'd like to keep it focused but yeah uh bullets what's going
on what's good bro a couple things shout out to you good job on the rebrand for max extraction
smart move second you know to to circle back to the referral links um i mean it's pretty blatantly
obvious uh you can just go click on the gigaverse copy the ref wallet and then go put it into the
abstract portal it leads directly to the
abstract main wallet agw and yes that wallet is receiving funds and is receiving money off of
every sign up and referral that comes from the portal now am i saying that's a bad thing no
but i'm saying it would be nice to know why that was set up that way and why aren't they using the
funds to maybe progress the chain for something and second um you know Jesus you said something
about Gambler um you know I'm on the core team of Gambler bro uh and I can tell you right now
Gambler for a reason did not want to go on the portal because the core team of Abstract said that if they did
not have a referral link that led to directly Abstract earning the fees from the referral link,
that they could not go on the portal. And that is 100% facts. I can get Andy, the founder,
on this stage to solidify that. So that's the reason why Gambler never went on to the portal because they refused to have a referral link directly lead to abstract and abstract get all of those referrals.
But other than that, like I said on the space, I'm still bullish on abstract, man, always.
I just think some things just need to change man
you know and I feel like if some things change wait wait wait bullish real quick uh so I'm kind
of confused because I this didn't make a lot of sense to me I remember seeing gambler on the
portal I've you know I've taken a flight to play gambler once or twice. Uh, but I,
I remember it being on the portal.
I just clicked it and it is on the portal and they do have a referral link
that,
that is an abstract referral link leading to gambler.
so gambler is on the portal still.
Yeah.
When I was,
when I was there,
I remember seeing screenshots showing like, you know, all the people that came over to the site.
I think a part of that...
They must be coming off soon then or something.
I remember just this week I had a discussion with them about Gambler being on the abstract portal.
They said they didn't know if they were going to be on there any longer because of that whole ref link issue.
Yeah, but so, okay.
So just to clarify, Gambler has been on the portal.
It is on the portal.
And they still have been using abstract referral link.
But Jesus said that they weren't taking funds
from them. It was
more so for data
collection. Yeah, I think it's all for data
collection. I think all these apps are going to
have a data collection.
I can agree with that 100%,
but my only problem
is if you just do
the two steps for blockchain research
and you go and copy the wallet that's attached to the referral links on the portal and you go plug it into abstract AGW, any fees coming from those dApps are going to that wallet.
I mean, it's right on chain.
Yeah, I think we would just need somebody from the team to explain what are the fees used for
that's the argument yeah i so yeah that's the only argument so i'll say this my
because i brought i actually brought this up i think three months ago to to finn
because in my head i was like okay well you know as a streamer i would love to have you know just
like twitch but as a streamer i would love to have you you know, just like Twitch, but as a streamer, I would love to have, you know,
if I'm playing Gigaverse, the Gigaverse button under my stream
when I'm playing this game and I choose it,
I get to put in my own referral code and it would lead to them.
And I think I brought that up to Michael Lee as well,
and he said that's for sure something they're going to be doing.
they're gonna be doing uh so i know it is gonna come i don't know when uh but i don't i don't
So I know it is going to come.
I don't know when.
really have an issue with abstract like getting referral fees directly off the portal um like for
again for me if they can make money on it and that helps them i think i've spoke about it before but
they raised like 11 mil on their first raise which if anyone understands like burn rate of a chain, that is absolutely dust.
So I don't mind them having revenue streams that can help them.
I know they're looking to hire devs, which is important.
And I think that's honestly, I think that's kind of been the weakness of Abstract is they just haven't had enoughpower uh to do the things that they want to do
it helps when you want to turn a ship again like the smaller the ship the faster you can turn
um but eventually you want to size and scale up that ship so i i don't really have a problem with
the referral link stuff uh i guess it kind of depends on where the money's going or how it's used, but that's, that's more of a,
like I,
I hope the money fulfills the vision.
I don't really believe anything sketchy is happening.
Cause I haven't seen it leave chain,
when I did take a look at the wallet.
So to me,
I don't really have an issue with that.
but I would love to see.
I never said there was an issue at all.
I just,
all I literally said on the space i had with
sam was like it would just be nice if there was clarity of what those funds were used for because
the only thing we always hear all the time from the abstract team is they have no money they have
no money they have no money well i don't think i don't think they're i don't think they're saying
it right like i think that's mostly us saying that. I don't think they're saying we have no money.
I don't think they'd ever want to just come out and say that.
Yeah, I think they wouldn't have no daps or apps
or anybody on chain if they said that.
Well, I mean, you can just look at the on-chain metrics.
I mean, they're definitely not good.
Well, I'm talking about funding.
I'm talking about their treasury.
Yeah, yeah. No, for sure, for sure. But I think one thing I'm talking about their treasury. Yeah, yeah.
No, for sure, for sure.
But I think one thing I was trying to get at, again, not bearish on abstract.
I just made that so clear on the other space.
It's can we go and dissect and peel back the layers and figure out why everyone's leaving abstract?
There's got to be a reason, right?
And usually it comes from the top down.
So, and that's any chain.
That's been everything.
Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Okay.
So let me say this.
I hear what you're saying,
but I also feel like that is putting a,
like a monolithic thinking on why each person's leaving.
I left Solana in the first year of Solana because it was boring,
and I was getting tired of how slow it was,
and it was mostly teams coming on there to rug, and I was tired of it.
But it had nothing to do with the actual team of Solana.
And same thing with bass.
I was doing music on-chain for like the last two years and so
super chain stuff bass optimism all that kind of stuff and i left bass really early because i was
tired of how slow it was how boring it was and the only thing that was running was like what
brett or toshi or whatever um so i hear what you're saying but like before you go on i do want
to say i i do think there's kind of an issue with acting like there's a monolithic reason why people are leaving.
And I also want to stray away from – I have no problem with being like, I think people are leaving because of this, but I do have an issue with saying people are leaving because of this.
people are leaving because of this or you know and i'll take it one step further
just because this is something i saw you posting which i really uh obviously didn't like um because
to me again it was past the form of i think it was you know fins getting paid under the table by
by tokens and all that kind of stuff instead of being like you know i feel like finn probably
might be taking money or i think finn be taking, like, I have no problem with people doing that kind of stuff.
Does it suck?
Kind of.
But my issue is just kind of where it's stating matter-of-factly without having, like, verifiable evidence.
And outside of that, it's fine.
Let me just say one thing.
I've been here for a long time.
And I was here with Finn in the Solana Tana trench days i'm not going to go any further than
that yes has finn done some great things throughout his career but all i'm gonna say is
i've been in a lot of group chats in those 18 months ago plus when those solana trenches were
wild and um that's all i'm gonna that's all Yeah, I was too, though. That's how I met Finn two years ago, just trading meme coins with the same circles of people.
Again, though, my point is just like I think saying stuff like that is kind of like...
So then let's forget about that then. Let's go back to where you said things are getting boring.
then you you let's go back to where you said things are getting boring can you agree and you're
you're even in my because you're changing your whole brand right now you're going from max
no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no i think people misunderstood that post and
i realized that as soon as i started seeing comments my issue was that one I felt because I made a show based on interviews that I couldn't stream anything
other than interviews because now it's like every time I go live it's called max abstraction
and that means I have to do an interview during that time um or it's like if I want to bring
people on to abstract like you know some of my biggest streams are when I had the bodagos crew
on when I had men on and they're not abstract people but like i'm streaming on abstract um but calling it max
abstraction every time even though we're not always talking about abstract on the abstract
platform it just kind of felt like i i i'm stuck in this interview format about abstract
even on days where it's like hey i want to do some risk it stream hey i want to do
uh some myriad market stream some like something like that so i want to clarify that it's not like
because i'm trying to get rid of abstract from the brand or anything like that also because i
snapped my neon sign in half that was max abstraction uh and i was like okay well maybe
maybe this is a sign to to take away name and just make it EliStream.
Or I don't know.
So let me ask you this.
You know, do you feel that, like you said, on Solana, on base, things got boring?
And be honest about this.
You can.
It's regardless.
Do you feel that Abstract is hitting a boring zone right now?
I can.
Okay. feel that abstract is hitting a boring zone right now i didn't okay i mean i'm all like no matter
what people say i know people like to say that i'm an abstract plant or whatever um i'm very honest
and i clash with people because of it and it's fine but uh but i actually don't find abstract
boring because i actually have things here that i enjoy doing. My thing with Solana is when I was there, when Solana first, like, I don't actually,
I'm not going to say I was there when Solana launched.
I don't remember.
But it was like the very first NFT collections launching.
They were all one-to-one derivatives of projects on Ethereum.
They were like, it was all like just rugs nonstop.
And there was just nothing.
There was no games. There was no real no real communities abstract is not like that like i can i can legit say abstract is leagues
beyond solana um community wise and ecosystem wise than solana was in its first year and it's not like
if you were actually there it's not even close i think a lot of people look back with like rose
tinted glasses it was terrible bro there were no games there was no real communities um
and i i think who brought it up cheeses brought it up but the difference is that abstract had a
jump start because of luca and pudgy penguin ecosystem so we kind of skipped over a lot of
that phase now are we still are in that really painful growth period which i don't think you ever really
get out of like solana still goes through that every single week like there's always shit um
you know ethereum mainnet's a little older it's more like a relic and it's hard to tie that to
to saying oh mainnet ecosystem but even base is still like that so i i don't think you ever really fully escaped that but to go back to the question no
i'm not bored i just i wish i could make more money like that like you know it's as simple
as that but i'm not bored i play gigaverse every day um you know i talk a lot of projects all time
i do play some risk even though i i really need to learn how to have better self-control because i've lost your mouth out um uh but but you know
i mean so like i look i i genuinely don't find abstract boring i what i find boring is the
repetitive shit that we keep going through whether it's rumors about and like people talking about
okay well this okay well that like the conversations don't kind of end even though it's not even really specific stuff or you know it the tvl stuff the conversation i i don't mind
having because i think that's fine we need to have those conversations but it does kind of get
repetitive to have them non-stop and that's what i find boring but like again i i'm not on gigaverse
i i want to say this real quick i'm not on gigaverse i don't show like so gigaverse because
i'm on gigaverse i'm i'm with gigaverse because i was already playing a shit ton so when i say
like oh you know i play gigaverse every day like i'm not paid to say that i'm paid to say that
because i do say that or that didn't make sense well i'll say well i i left abstract and i still
play gigaverse every day so i mean that that is one thing that I still at least interact with on abstract.
But, you know, here's my thing, right?
So you said you want to make money.
Now, I think, and we can all say this is actual facts that, you know, I wouldn't, I don't know how to word gatekeeping in a more professional
way, but, you know, being almost too strict on who they allow to be on the portal. And I bring
that up because let's be honest, if you're building something great and there are, there
actually are some, some great stuff that's been built on abstract that's not even on the portal and they should be right so i think in order for everybody to be able
to make more money that sometimes you just have to rip the fucking band-aid off and just let the
floodgates open and let people in so they can be seen and there's more options right like dude i've been
on abstract like i said i've said on the other space you can go look at my public wallet i started
it the same week abstract launch i literally think three days after agw was live and there has not
much changed to the portal except a couple extra gambling daps here a game here or two like
nothing that's like wow i want to bring a few hundred thousand back over to abstract
and dive deep in and just go full force on this chain so i think that's another big problem too
is that like it like the dam the dam's got to get broke open at some point right
base look at base bro they're letting everybody build i mean look at the meme coins on abstract
that dam's broken fuck it's a rug every other day it's turning into the solana trenches over
on abstract okay okay all right it's not that bad well it I mean, go look at Moonshot, bro. It's pretty bad.
I'm not saying things that bond in the top 20,
but I'm saying if you just go pull up Abstract on Moonshot,
I mean, it's like pump fun.
They hit right before Bond Rug, right before Bond Rug.
Yeah, but you can't stop that, right?
It's not a chain-specific issue.
But listen, exactly.
So listen to me.
So if that flood
gate is opened why not open that same flood gate to builders well because okay because okay because
i i actually don't have an issue with the portal like people really really conflate the two the
portal is not the chain right the portal's not the chain someone
else and i brought this idea up on a space like two months but i think during nft nyc with finn
uh and i was like well can someone just create their own portal and he's like yeah go for it
like that's fine i like we we welcome that portals like just their epic games but someone else can go build a steam which is like you know
way more games like people could someone else can go build a steam and put every i think someone
even tried doing it it was like a their own portal thing but it didn't take off because
i don't know just no motion i think the problem with majority is though bro they're scared to use
it if it's not on the portal okay but that's it but
you can say that at any chain right like it i don't understand that concept because okay but
that's like that's crypto like you have to go do that then that that's why they're making the portal
so they can try their best like are they gonna make are they gonna get it by no dude like i really
kind of am tired of this whole concept of oh abstract
promoted the wrong project i i don't disagree that they've fucked up like a good amount of times
but also like every company in the world like steam has pushed games where they've had to take
down right epic games has had to remove games that they've pushed they've had to take down
so it's not it's not a specific thing to them um i think if if people want to launch on the
abstract shame they can that's not gated right like that is fine to to launch on the abstract
portal by like their curated thing like you're gonna have to go through their steps and gonna
have to meet their qualifications and and guess what like dude there's gonna be some bias to that
and i feel like it's retarded fuck i really don't like using that word sorry uh i i feel like it
really is like stupid um for people to get super upset about that because that's in any business
in any world on any chain like that's not something new and i feel like it's because we have louder
voices uh maybe for the first time and on a chain this early so it's it's
people can hear us more and we feel like we have a bigger you know impact uh than we've ever had
before and we can make a difference and so i feel like for us we feel like we can say things about
it which i don't think is an issue but again i i don't really see a problem with abstract portal
being heavily curated as a product by them what i have an issue
with is you know dude actually i can't even think of one can i can i can i can i jump in while you're
composing yourself no yeah you like how's things good man it's been a while how are you
yeah good thanks so just one thing that i and i I'm not sure where I saw this on XB,
maybe like a week ago, and I nearly commented on it,
and then I was too busy and I didn't.
But there was a comment about the, if you go on the abstract portal
and you look at the referral codes, like the links that go to the projects,
are referral links, but just something to say on that from my perspective.
And, you know know as you know abstract
didn't give me a badge or a spotlight so i'd love to jump up and slag them off but that link if you
look at the gambler one there is a referral link and i don't know what the sum of money is that
should have been that would be if that was a traditional referral system how much fucking
money abstract would have made from gambler but they've never claimed the money
so one thing i did want to say about fin and team is that the gambler link that there is a referral
link that goes to gambler but not a single member of the abstract team who i'd love to slag off but
um has actually ever claimed any referral money ever and just back to the thing about badges and
spotlights i have offered the abstract marketing team i've offered them money to give me a badge
to give me a spotlight and they always just said no so whatever the kind of sentiment is around
abstract i don't think that we can say and again i've joined this slightly
late but you we can't say well finn and team are only doing it for money because i fucking wish
they were if they were i would have had that goddamn badge and the fucking spotlight by now
by the way gamble is amazing and um don't ever play blackjack against bullish ever
i i appreciate you you know maybe that's a problem you know maybe that is a problem that
they're not taking the money i think what we should talk about right now bro no no listen
no for real like if there's a process, like, like a paid process,
right. You know, you pay for an audit, then you have to pay to be, I mean, there's a lot of things
that do that, whatever. Just, I'm just getting to a point, like a way for them to make money
legitimately, you know, not just throwing scams on the portal. But if there was even a process
where like, you had to go, go through an audit audit through them and then you paid this amount of
money to be on the portal and then it's like a like a cut like a campaign right you got to pay
kido 250k and they don't give a fuck what you are you give them 250k you're on kido same thing
with yeah but look yeah but yeah but okay that's that's i don't think that's the way to go like i
legit don't think that's the way to go i Like, I legit don't think that's the way to go. I think Kaido suffers because of that. They have so many shit projects on there.
So I don't think that's the way to go.
So then how do you grow TVL?
How do you grow TVL?
That's the problem.
Because you're getting more bridged off than bridged on right now.
Well, I do think we've recovered, like, what, 5 million to the TVL in the last week or whatever.
Which I know is a low bar, but whatever.
But look,
their method is a little different.
Well, okay, I also
Stargate, okay,
can we add some context? Because it is kind of annoying
that we leave out Stargate rebalancing
their
whole portfolio.
We lost the majority of that because of Stargate,
but that has nothing to do
with the users bridging off like that that is where majority of the tvl decreased and i i think it's
really kind of disingenuous to act like those are users who are bridging money off now have people
bridge money off yeah for sure but like like that, like I think literally half of that TVL decrease was from Stargate themselves.
So I just kind of feel like we should add that context whenever we talk about that.
Why did they leave?
Well, I don't think they left left. I think they just rebalanced a fuck ton of their portfolio from what from what I understand.
Which is I don't like that doesn't bother me. I don't think that's a big deal.
I do want to go to first of all, I do want to thank Andy.
Legit, I think someone who has no reason to say good things
about a team that isn't giving them what they want
and still says those things, I think speaks a lot to you.
So appreciate that.
I do want to, I don't, I think Luke had his hand up first
and then we'll go to board.
We can revisit so many things.
I just kind of want to get to people who have their hands up and then we'll go to Jagged
after.
Shit, dude, a lot's been said.
I mean, I guess one of the big things for me was, yeah, like where, if everything's
a referral link, where does the money go?
And if the money hasn't been claimed or touched then who then it doesn't really matter that it's a referral
link i mean i guess in the future it could but um no like i mean i got something to be cautious of
like a team that holds a lot of the supply of something but not a problem at the moment and um
oh just like the idea of like the portal being gatekept.
Like I, like anyone can build on abstract, which is like, obviously there have been things
like I, I can think of quite a few things.
I know everyone can have projects, token, you know, whatever it is, things that probably
shouldn't have had abstract support or like at least relative to all the genuine people
that are really trying to build a solid product and community, like abstract support would have been better given to someone else but
like the just the fact that like it's like at face value if someone did go create their own portal
and it god bless you sorry that was my dog um if someone did go create their own portal like at
face value it would be like, uh, it'd be,
you know,
kind of a competitor to abstract at initially,
like they might,
people might think that that's no bueno,
but in reality,
like if you did go out and create your own portal,
I don't see why abstract actually wouldn't be a huge supporter of that
eventually because you'd just be adding more transactions and things to the
chain.
Yeah. But that's the real question. Wait, golden you mute your mic you're like moaning if if that was created would it get that was also my
dog not golden okay sorry sorry bullish no i'm saying if if that was created and here's it here's
the big question if it was created would it get the support of abstract
uh finn literally i mean i don't think they'd push it as their product no but like i don't
i don't think they what like why would they i don't think they need to i don't think i would
hold against them if they didn't either way abstract doesn't mind because that just means
more issues on chain they make more money so i don't think they're against it like finn said go for it like we don't it doesn't bother us the more products
that are made on abstract the better uh but i don't see why they would push it i don't think
that makes sense i wouldn't i mean eventually i don't i wouldn't say that they would push it but
imagine someone were they built a portal that was less picky with who came on and
was kind of more accommodating to people that aren't in with abstract yet so then there's a
portal that has safe things to be used on it and or not a portal you know something else like a
whatever you want to call it just another hub for things built on abstract and then
that's more transactions contributes to tvl like i don't see why abstract wouldn't like i'm not
going to say like support it as their product you know but i think i think i think they talk about
the product that's doing well on the other portal but it's like why would apple promote the the
google store they wouldn't but if they both had the same app on the same
store like if they both have the same app then you promote the app that's doing well but i don't
think there's a reason to no but even if they even if they don't have the same app it's all it's just
if you know that there's a safe source or like a safe spot for people to go hang out and enjoy themselves on the chain like
doesn't doesn't hurt them right i mean just because the if the no i don't know the problem
is activity on the problem is you don't know like if joe schmo creates like a really sick portal
right on abstract and it's doing really well but you don't actually know that like you don't
actually know them you like they could they could easily fuck up on the portal on their competing portal
ton so i think it's dangerous to push like a portal that you don't actually have control over
i think talking about the product that does well that's on chain that's fine uh like again because
if fruit ninja can be on jesus that just aged me fuck um fruit ninja
could be on google store and ios store but like i don't have to then put if i'm a competing portal
i don't have to put because guess what like portal by abstract is their product right at the end of
the day so i don't think there's a reason to try to be altruistic about this. It is their product. So they don't need to push a
competing portal. Even
if that portal is generating
activity on the chain,
then they would just push the activity on
the chain that people are
doing, whether it's an app or a game
or whatever. In my opinion,
whether you
hate me or not, if Portal is my
product and I'm my business, I'm not going to push a competing portal, but I will push another app that's on my chain for sure.
Understandable.
I just think, you know, like it brings me back to the floodgate, you know, topic.
you know, topic. It's, I think they just need to open the doors and have that test,
open the doors, have, let me put something out there. I have, I know, I don't know if you guys
know who Poe Boy is, but he's one of the number one Call of Duty TikTok streamers. I'm very good
friends with him. Very good friends with him Very good friends with him He gets massive
Massive, massive views
When he streams on TikTok
And kick
I brought him over
To Abstract and had him
Go through the application process
Still not approved
So he said fuck that shit
I'm not coming over there or bringing my people over there
If I'm going to be waiting six months to get approved.
So, like, I think what they need to do is just test the water, open the floodgate, just throw, you know, obviously be diligent to come over to abstract and it will flood abstract.
Maybe not with the best thing. You might get a 60, 40, a 70, 30, a 50, 50, but you will bring in massive amounts of TVL, massive amounts of users, and you'll be able to recoup from the downtrend that it's in.
And say the dust settles, you'll still settle with at least quite a few people that will stay
and wean out the bad actors. I think the floodgates got to get open a little bit,
and it will attract more people to the chain i'm telling
you right now so let me let me ask you something do you think real quick real quick do you not
think like that's kind of because that's that's kind of what it seems like they're aiming to
but the but do you feel like the portal itself is ready for matt like i don't i personally don't think that it's ready for it
um so like to me i i assume that's kind of why they haven't done it yet
uh maybe like do you think the portal is ready for that i mean dude this web 30 bro this space
moves quick i think you just got to be ready for anything at any time you know there's layers to
there's layers too.
There's L2 launching every day.
I mean, go look at Kaido.
Yeah, but they're also failing every day too.
Well, and as somebody that, like I said, not bearish on abstract, still bullish, bearish on certain team members, abstracts failing too.
So like there has to be something that drives people of the masses to the chain if you're
not giving a mass effect it's just gonna stay stagnant and then bro look at blast blast had
2.7 billion dollars in tvl they're irrelevant today okay so okay well wait all right your blast is a totally different
like beast in itself i i also think comparing blast to abstract i know a lot of people love
doing it the abstract uh blast really like they came off blur right like that's to me that's so
different um and also it was rewarding people for farming volume, which Abstract doesn't do.
And so I do think it was attracting TVL that was always going to be temporary, regardless, because people were only there to farm for volume.
Well, what is the XP that you're farming every day on Abstract?
Well, it doesn't reward volume, right?
It rewards a different type of behavior.
But it still rewards use of the chain you know so you gotta you have to come use the
chain spend money you know play a game whatever it is it's but there's ways right but there's
also ways okay well totally different concept right if you don't have to actually spend money
for certain aspects we'll get to the hands. I'm sorry
We've been I've been ignoring some hands. We'll get to them a second
Also, can I just ask a really a really quick question if you know the answer to this? Oh, who who's the who's like the
Who's the main decision maker behind abstract? All right. I didn't want to talk about this, but I
Have to come clean
It's me. Is it you yeah yeah so the one thing that like and this is
something else and again like genuine i'd love to jump up and slag fin off but from everything i've
seen as you know from from behind gambler it isn't always finn that makes the decisions about
various things and i have a feeling that there's other people behind the scenes
that are pulling the strings a little bit but they never seem to make it to the,
um, you know, they, it's, it's the,
it's the front marketing team that get most of the shit.
Yeah. But that's how it always is, dude. Like you look at video games.
Like, yeah, but that's, that's, that's what I meant though. It's like,
so who does anybody actually know? Cause I mean,
I could name some names, but I'm not going to.
I mean, I've given Luca loads of shit in DM.
Yeah, I think it's probably just a combination of top leadership.
Like I don't, it's just like any other business anyone's ever been a part of.
It's usually rarely ever one overlord figure that has puppeteer strings on everything, right?
Like businesses don't tend to work that way.
Chain of command things also kind of get uh handed off to other people as well so i don't really i don't
really think it's like that and again the whole finn thing look i love finn he's been a really
good friend of mine for like the last three and a half years maybe uh i i've been public about
things that i am not a fan of that he's's, you know, how he's handled some things.
I'm also a fan of a lot of things that he's done and handled.
And I think, you know, I played a fuck ton of Overwatch,
like a fuck ton of Overwatch.
And Jeff Kaplan was like the face of Overwatch.
He's the person who would give every message to the community,
all the patch updates, all that kind of stuff.
And whenever something went wrong, he was also the bad guy and the one who took the blame all the time but he's not acting
like he wasn't active as in blizzard he's not the one making all those decisions he's the game
director sure but he's not making all those decisions uh and so i think it's just something
people need to realize like finn makes his decisions and finn does in my opinion finn does
a good job but also like a person can only do as much as they're allowed or given the freedom to in a business and so i i agree with you i think like
it's not him making all these decisions um but again like it's i don't know sorry i'm pacing my
room right now no it's fine i know it's similar to me at Gambler. I am the mostly front face of Gambler, but I own 12% of the business. wondered what else is going on behind the scenes?
Who's in there in that structure that is potentially gatekeeping or causing these issues?
And this is the other thing that I wanted to jump in and say as well,
is that the motivation obviously isn't money for everyone anyway,
because if the motivation was money, do you know what?
Thinking back to it early on, I offered the abstract team shares
in Gambler for free, for nothing, just for some extra support
and extra various things, and they said no.
So again, for me, it's like, and I think this is maybe part of the issue,
especially from my point of view, is my life's a lot easier
if I know that I can bribe you or at the very least buy things.
If your motivation isn't money, I'm fucked.
I have no idea.
I have zero emotional intelligence.
I'm absolutely fucking doomed.
But my point, again, about the abstract team is that, you know,
their motivation clearly isn't money, or rather the motivation of whoever it is
that is kind of in charge of, you know, this quote-unquote gatekeeping.
It's not a financial decision.
Whatever it is, it's not based on money.
You can't –
They're not being bought off is what you're saying.
No, no, yeah, no.
I tried.
Like genuinely.
Do you think I've not been in
people's dms no i believe it i believe it 100 i was like look what's the figure let's do this i
need that fucking badge um i've tried everything um short of death threats uh to get to get a badge
to get the spotlight um you know and again for me just to say, the badge for me wasn't to increase my revenue.
The badge to me was, and I think this was touched on earlier on,
I wanted the badge because the badge gives you almost credibility.
You know, it's like I wanted the badge as like a,
not as a status symbol, well, maybe a status symbol,
maybe that is the best word, but I wanted the badge
because I felt that Gambler deserved the badge because Gambler is vastly better with the grace
of respect. Actually, no, fuck them. Vastly better than any of the other gambling apps that were on
abstract or are on abstract. Gambler is so much bigger and so vastly superior. I don't know if
you've seen the stats that I put up today,
nearly 30 mil wager this month with 98% RTP.
Like there is nothing ever on abstract that comes anywhere near close.
Yeah.
But in all fairness,
you did ruin my holiday.
Do you know,
I was sat on my fucking sunbed.
Like literally I canceled my holiday last year.
So we've digressed now, but YOLO. Well,olo well not too much yolo because we don't have hands no no no sorry
yeah yeah sorry it's my bad um i was on i cancelled my holiday last year this year i was on holiday
enjoying myself in tenerife um and bullish turned a grand into 250 000 just on some random fucking
blackjack spree.
Genuinely.
Stressful.
That's it.
I'm sorry for your struggle.
It's terrible.
Yeah.
Bored, you had your hand up.
Oh, what's going on?
Hey, I wanted to chime in similar to what Andy said about the referral link. So for Bitcoin, I can confirm that the referral link for the main portal listing does go to the abstract team.
They haven't touched a single token.
And, you know, that makes sense.
Like if you're a business and you claim those tokens, you accept them.
That's now a liability.
You probably have to sell it immediately for cash so you can pay your taxes because if the token drops down in value, it's a big problem.
So they rightfully aren't touching it.
I understand that they're speaking to their legal team to figure out what they could do with it.
Maybe they can LP it.
But I'm guessing that's a common story.
And to be honest, even if they were taking the money and using it to pay their bills, I think that's completely reasonable.
If you think about how the App Store works, you know, Apple takes 30%, Epic Games takes 15%, Steam takes 30%.
These types of chains don't take nearly as much money as the traditional Web2 companies do.
So I don't think that's unreasonable even if they did do it.
Do they need to be transparent about
it? Well, I think if they were using the money, then yes, but they're not. So I don't think that
that's really necessary. I don't think people should be jumping to conclusions and making
accusations based on, you know, information that's incomplete. I think in terms of, you know,
abstracts growth and TVL and all that stuff, I'll say just from like a consumer standpoint, I like to park my money in a certain chain.
And then when I'm doing that, I'd like to have something to do while I'm bored. Right.
So I want my money sitting in DeFi earning money and then I'll have a little bit left over and I'll go just do other stuff to keep myself from trading and losing that money.
So I think there's actually quite a few whales, people with significant cash,
who would love to come over to Abstract and just park their funds there.
But that isn't yet possible, although I think soon it will be.
And so once we see a lot more of these DeFi applications come to Abstract,
it's going to be DeFi on one end where you can have a lot of money parked.
And then you can have these fun games, casual games, things you play 15, 20 minutes a day that you can dick around with and have a good time.
And I think that they're just working on getting that equation right.
And I honestly think that within the next 30 to 60 days, we're going to have some pretty significant, um, you know, inflows to abstract because of that.
Uh, and then as for the portal, you know, the portal is like the, again, it's like the app store, right?
Like Apple makes computers and Apple has the app store.
Pretty much anything you want to put on your Mac book, you can put it on.
And that's kind of like the abstract chain.
Like no one's stopping you from running software
on the abstract chain.
You can go ahead and do it.
But if you want to be in the portal,
that's very much a centralized, human-focused decision.
There is liability for them as a company
if they make the wrong picks.
Every time they add a new piece of,
a new product or a new application to the portal,
that's a new attack vector for them. That's a new attack vector for them.
That's a new reason they can get sued.
And the amount of applications that are being added to the portal scales much faster than their team does because they haven't raised $200 million.
They've raised a very nominal amount, as you said, Eli.
So I think they're in a good place. And I think that I, you know, I do understand that it feels challenging. And there's a little bit of like cherry picking in terms of who gets in and who gets who doesn't in terms of the portal. But ultimately, I mean, the way our team looks at it for Bitcoin is we're not really trying to use it or we die.
If you're leaning on abstract art to save your product or drive users to you,
then that's a big red flag.
That means your product is not interesting enough on its own.
So yeah, I don't know, some random thoughts from me.
Hopefully that's helpful to other builders.
Yeah, that was really good.
Kind of in line with how I feel, I guess.
Drew, I want to go to your hand and then we'll go to Jagged, then Golden, and Tony.
Yeah, I mean, this might sound ignorant.
Like, I'm more so on the consumer-facing side as like a consumer of AppStrike, right?
And whatever blockchain we use, like, usually we go right and whatever whatever like blockchain we use like
usually we go on when there's like an app that's like oh okay look this app's right here everybody
wants to jump on it so then you bridge fund transfer funds use it and once you're kind of
done i'm going to say quote you bridge that money out right so isn't that just like normal for
abstract to get that face right now i mean like, I'm super bullish on Abstract to team the people, everybody,
but it's normal that they're some downturns, no?
If someone wants to reply, I'm eating a banana.
I'm sorry.
It's a...
Yay.
You like that banana, don't you?
You can't respond.
All right. Okay. All right. you like that banana don't you you can't even respond all right um okay all right um yeah i think it's normal um uh i i don't really have an issue with it again like
to me jesus christ now i feel self-conscious about the banana uh i don't really think there's
an issue for it i i don't have a problem with it
I think
Board had a really interesting point about them
Then it becomes like a legal
Thing and a whole tax thing
When you actually claim the money
So I think the LP stuff
Could be cool
Whatever the team decides to do
I'm sure they're not going to be stupid about it
I just have a hard time believing
They're going to mishandle that part.
Jagged, what's going on?
So I think both pretty much said what I wanted to say about the portal access.
Whoever is complaining that they are not getting they're not getting feature on the portal
I think they should understand that it's not a right it's a privilege and
tomorrow if you build an app on Solana or Base
there is no portal that exists on Solana so who are you going to complain to
and Base has the Base app and you're not going to immediately get
feature on the base app so
the portal is pretty much that if you make an app which people want to use it's an abstract's
benefit to portray it to show it on the spotlight because that you're not in conflict with them
they want the they want something that is going to be used the most and whoever said from the panel
that they would like to pay abstract to be able to
feature it you can actually indirectly still do that you can pay the influencers you can pay the
creators and get it get it in front of people the kols the kols you got to use that my rates are
pretty high though yeah i have final followers so i'm i'm open to business you can pay me whatever
you want but jokes aside i think the point is if you want attention,
Abstract is a small and vocal community and the creators are very active.
So you can anyway get the attention.
Either you can get on streams and do some guerrilla stuff over there
and get it for free, get your app for free.
Or you can pay the creators and get attention.
And if you are able to prove to the Abstract team that your app has legs or has transactions or usage or some form of attention you won't you
won't need to convince them because the data will be on the blockchain and they'll put it on
spotlight yeah they don't like dude if you think base i can i can definitely jump in oh sorry you
like well no i was gonna say like dude imagine if someone launched a football.fun on abstract
and it brought
over, you know, a hundred thousand, like not a hundred thousand,
but imagine like, you know,
someone just launched something on abstract.
Didn't really talk to the team about it,
but it brought over a fuck ton of people, a fuck ton of money.
Like, okay, well then they're going to, they're going to want that.
They're probably going to highlight it because it is a spotlight product on
the chain. So it's, I'm in the same boat as you, Jagged.
Like I feel the same way.
Yeah, but the thing is that
in any human curated initiative,
there is going to be people
who are not going to be happy
because it is prime real estate
and whoever gets on spotlight
gets immediate revenue,
immediate transactions.
So I can understand
that there'll be a lot of devs
who will not be happy.
It's no matter what they do, there will be people
who will not be happy because there are eight slots
to give and if there are 20 builders or
30 builders, 100 builders, there will be
90 people who will say, why am I not
there? So
maybe there is a case to be made that
they can streamline the process of
inbound requests of devs if there is no
clarity in communication.
But if you don't get featured,
that's not a sign that you can't be used on AppStrike.
You are still there building on the chain.
And if you want to spend money to get your app in front of people,
you can still do that. No one's stopping you.
Well, let me add to that too.
You don't even need...
Spotlight is great being on the top six apps, but also like on
the Explorer page, like you can be ranked on the Explorer page and be up early.
And that's not on Abstract.
That's on you getting the most upvotes you can, right?
Because it's ranked, I believe it's ranked by upvotes, right?
Yeah.
And so it's like, you know, Gigaverse is number one, but they're not paying Abstract.
They are the most upvoted app.
And so like like that's
not an abstract you just get you have to be a good enough product have a big enough community
and maybe it's you know obviously incentivize people to upvote you but that's on you as a team
and a project and so again i think you kind of nailed it on the head um the people aren't going
to be happy even as like a creator sometimes there's just coins I don't think are interesting
or projects I don't think
are like super interesting.
And so I just tend to not
think about it as much
and I don't talk about it.
And then people will consider that FUD
and they'll get upset
when it's like,
no, it's just not on my mind.
And so it's, you know,
people are going to be unhappy
no matter what.
And do I think that's an excuse
to not try your best
to create a good product?
No, but it is just something to be aware
of can i can i dive in from my own point of view on the go for it just just on the and there is no
right that you would be given a spotlight but i think the thing especially with gambler because
obviously gambler isn't an nft project or a coin It's a business. And it's bigger than all of the other gambling things that are on Abstract.
And it was nearly bigger than them when we were solely on Abstract.
And now it's well and truly eclipsed them all since we've gone omni-chain.
But for us, it was the fact that we built something that was a casino.
All these things that were getting spotlighted and getting badges
were low RTP, not scams, but just very, very low RTP.
And some of them were utter shite and were just robbing everyone.
We literally spent time building the best casino we could
with the highest RTP that we possibly could.
And for us, the frustration was the fact that even though we were working so hard to, you know,
we were getting loads of praise from the community, from various KOLs, people saying,
how come these guys don't have a badge? Why don't they have a spotlight? They're better than all
these things. And we still couldn't get it. So I think that's where, for me anyway, the frustration
came in um aside from
trying to bribe everyone and them saying no that was kind of my last resort that was you know that
was what i fell back you fall back on what you know um and uh but initially it was the fact that
you kind of sat there and you think and well what fucking metric are they going by um you know to choose the the badges the spotlights because gambler was
better than the things then and i mean it still is you know not not that i'm biased or anything
but yeah let me ask all over any of the other things on there let me ask jonah a question
because i see his hand up jonah has a dope game um i play that shit well i played on the phone more than i played
on abstract but um how come you haven't gotten a badge jonah what's the reasoning behind that
about a badge for what sorry like a participation for frankie go for frankie go i don't know
we make money though so i don't really care also they uh you know i don't think appstack hasn't
done a badge in a minute this is actually an issue i have with them because i posted that perk
photoshop image i made uh and duper which i you know i like duper a lot um so there's nothing
against them but the duper badge is still there and i think it's been like a month and it's been
expired for like a month so to be fair, I do think we'll get a badge.
We have good comms with their team,
but we were so focused on making this game better
that we didn't really ask for that.
I know that we're going to get probably some sort of points preference.
I don't know what that looks like, but they talked about it.
But since they're moving away from doing like casino and want casino-esque
games um but are like more strategy based we're probably the top three game on abstract now based
on what their initiative is so i wouldn't be surprised if we got one i yeah i definitely
don't think it's a uh a problem with any games i i think they just haven't done a badge in like a
month uh for whatever reason so i I'm sure once they do that,
then stuff like Frankie Go and whatever will probably be looked at.
Yeah, we have no – there's no – like they've been treating us pretty well.
We've gotten good client services.
It's just a matter of like even if they were offered to us like last week,
we weren't ready.
We had some bugs to fix.
Like we had to fix the gym.
We had to make sure that OpenSea know uh you know put everything in correct order because we had some minor issues
with open c you know little little mini things we had to push a new update yesterday um but now
that everything's sort of running really smoothly and we'll prepare for our future event that we'll
announce like yeah now i can you know harass them i'm sure they'll do it when they're ready yeah w uh okay wait tony has hanging up for like a long ass time i want to go to tony
real quick hey what's up man what's going on i do that i i um i recently decided to
take the green pill you know so i i recently decided to move the green pill, you know?
So I recently decided to move to abstract chain.
I've been trading on Slada for quite a while.
And just listening to you guys today is,
has painted a different depiction of abstract
to the depiction that I've been seeing on the metrics and on the um on the
timeline um i i don't know why everybody has this perception that abstract's cooked because i just
bridged here and i'm seeing that there's a there's a lot of opportunities here. Look, abstract has two things that opened the door
for people to explore.
And for me, that was Luca and Pengu.
They opened that door.
So I kind of took abstract seriously.
Look, Luca's a good guy.
He's done quite a lot of good stuff.
So I said, hey, if he's interested in that, so am I.
You know?
So I took a good look at abstract from that angle and peter thiel
really good investor um vc type individual was involved in the seed round and i said hey those
two guys are on abstract and they're very bullish on abstract so but there was never anything really that I wanted to do. I think Bord Elon kind of said there was nothing to do on abstract.
And that was the case for me.
I was following the account.
I was following a few of the heavy hitters in the ecosystem.
But nothing really hooked me and said,
hey, right, today's the day you're going to bridge some funds over there
and start clapping some of these things.
And earlier in the week, I had a reason to bridge
because I saw a new DEX that had opened up
because I tried to find Abstract Swap.
There's no x for abstract soap
i can't find it if anybody's got it please can you send me their x there's literally no social
media presence for the number one it's on the portal like the portal itself uh you can swap
so there's no social media platform whatsoever for this next just use relay but you can use
relay as well yeah uh you see the problem? Jumper, jumper.
But what do you...
You're saying there's no swap on Abstract?
No, I'm saying AbstractSwap has no social media presence.
Well, because it's literally just Abstract.
It's the Abstract account.
Like, it's built in directly into the Abstract website.
And that's the problem.
So there's no one pushing the narrative
of why I need to participate in DeFi on abstract
because the abstract account is trying to push the philosophy
and the idea of abstract
and it's doing nothing for the DeFi aspect.
And then the only time i saw something to do with
defy which hooked me like a fish out of water was kona say no kona dude i saw that shit
points i saw points i saw v3 coming soon i saw stable i was bridging as fast as i could
because now i had a game to play you know dude, we got in there and the TVOs exploded.
It's at 1M right now.
The TVOs are growing very fast.
I think it's like 1.25 or something right now.
Dude, the thing is going up by the hour.
Because it's on the timeline.
It's got a presence.
And it's talking about what they're doing.
And people like it.
People are bridging.
People are putting dollars in the protocol.
And if you look at the ecosystem, by the way,
everything 30%, 20%, everything's going up.
Everything's green.
Because now people have a reason to buy XYZ tokens
and that token and put it in the pool and get some points.
And there's something fundamental here.
Because I always look out for these blockchains
that are very small communities. And sometimes you go in there and it's a very weird,
it's a very weird thing that people put across. It's almost like we all pretend we're not
capitalists. You know, we all put on this thing that, yeah, making money? Nah, I don't like that.
Dude, it's, we live in the Western world.
It's one of the main drivers for people.
So yeah, some of us do like to capitalize on opportunities.
And it's not something you should be shying away from.
And while I was over here trying to get money, by the way, on Canos.
I was like, what the heck is a portal?
So I got onto the portal and now I'm playing chess on the portal you see how yeah well that's that yeah that's that that's the vision
right like that's the hope is that the portal has enough stuff to when people have a reason to come
over here it's sticky like there's things to do here that you kind of explore it looks really good
like the eco i and i i told the dudes in the I said, hey, I've never gone into a blockchain
where I felt that there was an established, like, a UI that I'm like, okay, that's where
I go to find interesting things to do.
And the portal's really cool.
The streams are really cool and and you know we just
got the streams on solana through pump fun and those are not fun streams the streams on abstract
are if it's your niche they're really cool they're really interesting they do the job and i think
where abstract is now is in a perfect condition look at the stats abstract is in the top three
in the conversation l2s by by a mile you know there's no volume on uni swap chain
that's literally no volume is forget that um abstract is doing around 10 10 12 percent
of arbitram's volume um there's actually a lot of volume on Uniswap.
There's a lot of volume on Uniswap.
That's one of the largest DeFi protocols out there.
It's just not the swap volume.
It's DeFi volume.
It's people where they have their money parked.
It's not interactive volume of different people.
It's some accounts are just, you know, twapping back and forth between USDT and USDC.
And I think that that's something that's going to go live on Abstract as well through this Canos app.
So, you know, I'm looking at Abstract and I'm like, hey, this is really fun.
There's a massive opportunity here.
And there's obviously the big dangling carrot at the end of the journey, which is the abstract token itself.
And I think that's the one aspect of the blockchain that's missing to allow people to have incentivized reason to play the game a little bit harder.
And I think the more clarity comes out around the token itself,
the more you will see people become more active and see an opportunity here
because, you know, the media, the branding,
everything is really done really well,
especially the focus on Korea and K-pop.
That's a really good pivot, by the way.
Very different audience, very different audience very active
audience korea um and i think abstract is doing absolutely fantastic it's a great time to get in
now it's a great time to explore the ecosystem now and there's a lot of things that are very much
undervalued in terms of the quality they're producing and the difficulty they have to endure
due to lack of an influx of people.
So you find these undervalued things
and you get in there and you help build the communities.
And I think this is where it starts for abstract.
I'm not seeing doom and gloom over here.
I'm seeing a very thriving ecosystem
with a lot of dollars flocking into a new DeFi protocol that's showing a lot of promising,
interesting gimmicks that will keep bringing people over into the abstract ecosystem.
Well, actually, the issue with abstract right now, and there's a lot of positives, so I'm just
going to talk about the things that people are kind of crying about, is abstract is really good
at consumer, well, more so consumer casino, and they're very poor at DeFi.
And so I think if Avtrak DeFi gets better, which I think it is,
you've got Kona.
Kona's a great start, and I think you're going to have others
who are going to build better.
A Borean comes, I think, this time.
A Borean, okay.
So there's like, you know, I mean, I feel like I have a good good i good testimony i've lost over 30 000 on this
platform last month okay wait no you have okay wait no no let's rephrase that you have not lost
it you are just down from what did eli tell you to buy no no no that's not no i told him to buy
yeah and by the way i was right it No, no, I bought the wrong one.
I bought the wrong one.
Anyways, you're not actually down 30k.
You're just down one-time high.
Well, all I'm saying is I have not sold the bottom
because I think the defi will get better.
And, like, here's the big thing.
The biggest problem with Abstract is a lot of its users.
I'm sorry, guys.
Like, bitching on the timeline all day about how upset you are about this and this and problem with Abstract is a lot of its users. I'm sorry, guys.
Bitching on the timeline all day about how upset you are about this and this and that about Abstract,
it makes it so uninviting.
It's almost like you're that fat girl in the hot girl group.
You're the fridge guarding the snacks.
You're not helping.
So if you just shut the fuck up and stop complaining, people are going to want to build DeFi there.
But if you keep plotting all day, it's stupid. Yeah, and say like tony i think is a great example uh the everyday person has no idea about like what like all these bitching and
moaning things the average person has no idea what a market cap is they don't know what tvl is they
don't give a fuck they don't understand it's just kind of like us amplifying and like it's almost like we're acting like we're part of the team
and to a degree because we're so early and we're so deep dived into this that we're speaking
technical terms that the average bro music you think people give a fuck about the difference
between a wave file and mp3 file no one cares about a lossless codec file they just hear music
right they don't care and the same thing with like users on a chain they don't care about any of these conversations so
i like i think it sucks for us because we're watching our bags go up down up down like
viciously uh but that's also part of like being super super early um but i think that the tony i
appreciate giving your perspective i think that was well needed
uh because everyone up here kind of has been people who had been a part of ab shack since early days so i appreciate that uh let me let's go to uh carpenter and then i want to go to
big boss yeah i just want to touch on like the one thing that i feel like a lot of people don't
realize is like or they don't think about enough is you don't just want to like, you always hear,
I heard someone say that it's not on the timeline, right?
There's no marketing for the whatever.
You don't want to push your marketing really big until you have something sticky.
Right.
So the whole thing is like, we've got, you know, Gigaverse,
you have a bunch of other stuff, right?
Frankie and just stuff that like myself
and a bunch of other people play every single day
because they want to, right?
Not because like, I don't play for the incentives, right?
Like my kids play, my wife plays and like, it's not,
like we, I feel like when the DeFi comes,
now is a good time or here shortly right because
there's enough when people start moving their funds there's enough stuff that they'll try it
and the next thing you know inside the portal they're using it every day and not because of
the incentive of some token right and honestly i think if they start being pushing the token
we're going to get a bunch of farmers, and that's not ideal.
And because once the farming ends, those people leave.
So I feel like
yeah,
they could do some things better, but at the same time,
I feel like they're building
something for the longevity, not just
short term.
Yeah,
agreed. Also, is my mic quiet?
I just had people ping me in the telegram said my mic i'm
currently playing a drug dealing game on salon i'm not sure um big boss what's going on yo what's
going on um i think there's been a lot of conversation here and there's been a lot of uh
back and forth but some good and some bad but i also think that we need to like read and be honest
with each other and like talk about some of the stuff that, that has happened.
And like, I'm currently building on abstract.
That's not a secret.
And I firmly believe in the mission,
but I also do agree with bullish in a lot of growing pains.
Do I think that the, the, the actual chain is like doomed? No,
but I think that there needs to be hard truths amongst the team and they need
to be adults and
have conversations.
And I mean,
everyone that's ever worked in a corporate environment has had hard
conversations where you say,
you know what,
maybe we're right about this.
Maybe we're fucking wrong about this.
And very clearly they were very wrong about how they were approaching things
like dark mode or,
increased,
the,
the,
wait,
what do you mean?
What's wrong with dark mode?
Because people wanted it. And people like Finn said, you're not getting fucking dark mode because people wanted it and people like fin
said you're not getting fucking dark mode oh he's trolling yeah but no dude yeah but like
he was obviously fucking around he's not the dev that's like saigar is the one who said that dark
mode is going to take a long ass time he's just like when he does that shit like trolling but
then saigar said that they're going to work on it well my point is like if you have to hold on
my point is if you pride yourself on being the consumer chain of crypto you have to listen to
the consumers i'm not saying that it was a never going to happen and that finn wasn't trolling
i'm saying that if you're putting on that persona and you're saying that as again the face of the
company as you mentioned before as being the face of the company people are going to take you at
face value i agree no no no no i actually i'm not saying i took a face value i 100 agree and i've told finn i think he's like too dismissive
uh in kind of like the tone that he uses uh your users are autistic they don't understand satire
i mean dude i literally posted that i brought i posted a study that i found where it's uh it people who don't understand sarcasm are actually
lower iq um your users are retarded and autistic but but um again but big boss big boss i do i do
agree with that like i think yeah i think it you probably need to maybe if you can tell that the
tone's not hitting with the ecosystem that well you probably
need to adjust it a little bit listen i don't give a fuck i don't i don't give a fuck about
dark mode i know people do give a fuck about dark mode but i'm using that as an example if you are
the face of a again what's touting themselves as the consumer chain for crypto you need to take the
consumer's thoughts into consideration and that's just like we're in a fucking echo chamber with
crypto twitter here to be completely frank with everybody. The average consumer probably doesn't give a fuck about it,
but they care about other stuff. But the fact is that there needs to be that conversation. There
needs to be a retrospective and they need to say, okay, what are we doing right? And what are we
doing wrong? And that also goes, and again, I'm not blanketly agreeing with stuff from bullish
because I don't agree that the portal should be opened up to everybody. Because again, you can't
call yourself the consumer brand for crypto and then just have
everything and anything on there. It needs to be a curated list that you know has been audited,
that you know has been trusted, that you know has actual builders on. Do I think that there's
ways around it? Sure. You could have like a, you could have the fucking wild west section of the
portal that maybe is a toggle and it shows stuff that hasn't been audited, or maybe it's in another
location. But I do believe
firmly that it's growing pains. And I think that we can't just ignore said growing pains.
And I do think that people should give constructive feedback and continue to do it.
And I do think some people don't do that. I'm totally in agreement there that they'll just
fucking bitch and they make a toxic, shitty environment for people that are looking inward.
Someone like Tony that was brand new that maybe just got into the chain. And then maybe as soon as he starts following three people,
the algorithm starts giving them all the other negativity.
So we do need to constantly, as both builders and users of the platform,
give our feedback, but we also need to be confident in what we want as users.
And again, I think you said it, Eli, that the consumer is not always right.
I totally agree with that.
Yeah, but then I had so many people bitch at me that that wasn't the full quote oh yeah that's stupid but like if anyone
approaches like you're like think about it like from any successful early access game that's hit
playstation or steam whatever like they didn't get that way because they just were like yeah
we're making this inside of a bubble and we're not going to talk about it or we're not going to
implement these features like you have to listen to users and you have to listen to builders in
this case and you have to listen to pain points for people that want to help
see the chain grow. So I definitely think that there is, there's conversations that should have
happened. Clearly they did happen. And then clearly abstract kind of did a turnaround on
some of those issues or sort of prioritizing things that weren't priorities before they said
they're going to ship faster. Like all these things are good and it's healthy, but it is a sign of a chain that's not mature.
And I'm not saying that like they're immature.
I'm saying like, just because it's six months old,
not mature, that has to kind of fill in those gaps
and kind of learn as they go along.
And we need to continuously give that constructive feedback
so that they can do that down the line.
Agreed.
I also think it's probably,
this also came at like one of the worst times when half the team
And high leadership team is literally in
Asia doing a
It also comes
At a time when everyone's bags are down 35%
So of course we'll be fucking pissed about anything and everything
And then all of a sudden things are gonna be upset but
Yeah but I do think like I do
Hate the
You know the message where it's like oh people
Are just upset because their bags are
down no i definitely yeah like i definitely think it's more rooted in that there's fundamental uh
issues that need to get better and i think they will get better but i i agree with almost everything
you said that's i think that was a good that's not i i agree with you it's not that they are
upset about because their bags are down they are emotion they're more emotional and they will make
more emotional decisions and have more things come out of their mouth
Because their bags are down
Am I saying it's right or wrong?
No, I don't think it's right at all
I think it's what Eli brought up earlier
And he made a valid point
He wants to make money
And so do all of us
So it's like
What do we make money on now?
Have any of us figured that out, I'm not going to lie.
I'm making, I mean,
I'm making money every day.
I'm people don't want to hear it.
Cause it's, I talk about it a lot,
but gamers, I've, I am like making,
well, it depends on people buying it,
but I'm selling potions every single day.
Cause I have a gig or rum that I spend good money on.
So I'm just selling resources every day.
And then big coin, I'm not making the money money because i'm choosing to be delusional and and
believe in it uh but i am claiming like you know over 100 a day still um so i have the optionality
to do that and people can still trade people are trading but i don't mind abstract right now being
the place where i have my conviction bets and then i go i go trench on
solana like like it's to me i don't really have an issue with that um again i'm not i don't want
to do that i don't want to trench i'm just doing it because whatever it's it's there and i see
opportunities uh but i'd much rather make money the way i am now on abstract it would just be nicer because like I think it's that question
though well I want to say real quick well the conversation like the the oh you want to make
money okay well here's the issue I think most people when they think this it's through meme
coins right or like trading trading assets whether it's nfts or coins but it's not like that money
doesn't come at a cost because someone is buying
that off of you so i don't i don't really care for that argument where it's like oh i want to
make money on abstract and and that needs to be done through trading because that also means
someone else is probably going to be on the losing side of a trade so to me that's not like the best
thing to talk about um as far as where i'm making money but But if we had more games and if we had more apps
that were willing to reinvest
back into the ecosystem,
and this is like a big part
of a conversation that I've been having.
I understand why Abstract is excited
and they're pushing the narrative of,
look, this is how much our apps
are generating in revenue.
It's good for investors to see.
It's good for other potential builders to want to come over because clearly there's a product market fit um but it sucks
when you know we do see tvl decrease a little bit and people aren't making money uh in other places
and the games are and the apps are taking all the money so i'd love to see them reinvest money do
other things kind of like what gigaverse does with the auctioneer,
where it's like, oh, they're buying up the floors on Good Look, Have Fun.
Or there's games who could do tournaments often that aren't paid.
This was my issue with the Proof of Play tournament,
was it was cool that there was a pot of money.
But really, to win the pot of money as a community, you had to spend a lot of money to give them money.
And so I think if more games, more protocols found ways
to just kind of give back and create free ways for players
and community members to make money outside of just doing PVP
against other traders, to me,
then I would start having a little bit more fun.
Yeah, so the one thing I just wanted to finish saying is that,
now that's from the trader perspective and from the consumer perspective, from the builder perspective,
like you make money by coming out with products that are good products.
Like I firmly believe that if you make a good game, people will find it.
But like in, in the case of abstract, like there is absolutely the, I hate the word
gatekeeping, it's not really gatekeeping, it's curation.
Like that's what they're going for.
It is the curation of products
that they want to put in front of players
that they feel represents the brands
that they think are good.
And so like as a builder, like you obviously want that.
And as Andy was saying, like you'd happily pay for it.
Like, yeah, in the old web two world,
like we'd happily pay for that placement
on PlayStation or for Xbox.
Like that's just what you do.
And so if you don't have that,
you don't have that direct line or that visibility, or maybe that relationship with an
account manager. Like there is that fear that when something comes out, yes, you can, as you
mentioned before, Eli, you can make your own games or you can maybe try to make another portal that
competes with it. But like, at the end of the day, you're not that core. You're not the, you're not
the ecosystem and you're not the ecosystem. There, uh, the main like a point in which people play games or interact with it.
And thus the likelihood of that is, is just like, uh, it's in the toilet.
Right.
So if you, if you're building and you are trying to make money by a building,
people make, I make games because they're fun, but also because obviously
you're gonna make money.
It's not like an altruistic type of thing, but you need to actually have
the commitment from the people in the team to help you build
that and to find that product market fit.
Because in an ecosystem like abstract, the people are conditioned specifically to go
to that portal, to look, to see what is needed, to upvote, like you mentioned, to incentive,
but they're incentivized to upvote.
So they're looking at it.
They're constantly going there.
They're looking for new things.
And so there is kind of like this give or take, and there is the game that you have
to play to obviously go through the audit process and we heard earlier in this
space about how poly went through that and that absolutely sucks and i i wouldn't want that for
any of them or anybody but there needs to be there needs to be thought about that entire process and
i know from speaking to the team they've definitely had conversations they've changed kind of their
philosophies about how they promote stuff when they promote stuff when it goes in the portal
if it doesn't go in the portal.
So, again, I think it's definitely growing pains,
but we need to, as both consumers and people that are working on the chain,
continuously get that feedback in a constructive manner
so that they know and they hear our voices
because that's how you make a consumer change,
both as a builder and as someone that you said.
Yep, perfectly said.
Tony, what's going on your hand up again
yeah just um you know just hearing you guys say what what is it what is it you want people to do
on abstract chain and and i think i think i think people misunderstand
why people want to trade meme coins um and and some people have kind of said it's
the best web 3 game that exists is trading meme coins and and literally just doing stuff it's
the best game that's invented crypto or blockchain technology is synonymous with a new financial tool. People just see it as another medium of finance.
And it's very hard to then tell those people
that this medium of finance is also hosting games
and other things, ETC.
And I think the way Abstract's going about it
is they're creating these games in the portal
to allow people to explore them.
But I think how you get the users to come over and play those games is not by saying hey we you know we don't really want to do trading
meme coins over here because once you get the meme coin communities with infrastructure that
you've already put in place like the portal I think you have a much more interesting product than abstract.
Because then you have these communities that are easier to onboard and target
because these communities will have established figureheads,
they'll have cultish followings.
And, you know, just to be very, very random and give you a simplified viewpoint of it,
To be very, very random and give you a simplified viewpoint of it,
if the most popular meme coin diamond hand we all know, Murad,
if Murad said, hey, guys, get on the portal and play this game with me tonight,
we're going to get a good influx.
We're going to get a very good influx versus some random account. Versus Ian Ryan who's like versus some versus let's get on and no one shows up
no you like and do it but like you could do it you could do it but you see what i mean because
murad has that community that respects him that's has you know lined up incentives with him who will
do certain things because he said so.
And through him saying, so they might find, hey, this game is for me.
It's not for me.
This game works or whatnot.
And you could have a little bit of a different dynamic.
I think, you know, boxing off abstract as this consumer blockchain, where everybody
just comes on to play mini games and that's how they make money well
you've got to lose a lot of money to make money playing games and there's nothing wrong with
trading meme coins or looking for communities through meme coins or looking for those
interesting things like as i said to you the streams look really cool and those streams will
look even cooler if there was a theme around them that that kind of brought
community together and when you say you know what is there to do like yeah dude what did these guys
say they said we're gonna start giving you guys fees for all the trading that happens on top of
yeah that's a really good incentive for people to hang around and check what's going on like
for people to spend money they must get money and for people to get money and check what's going on. Like for people to spend money, they must get
money. And for people to get money, you know, if for people to spend a lot of money on these games
and pay for their highest levels and unlock new things, they need to be in a state of euphoria.
And you only achieve those by, you know, essentially allowing people to be able to
win big or be able to find a way that they can grow their capital quick enough
to be able to enjoy some of these games.
And, you know, we're seeing it now with this,
it's not a game, but people are collectors,
the card game on Salada, TCG card game.
And these guys are putting these Pokemon cards out
and they're selling six million
dollars of Pokemon dollars, six million dollars worth of Pokemon cards in five minutes, you know,
because the people buying them have money that they've made from whatever they're doing on in
the trenches. And they don't see a problem with spending you know 250 10 times to get the cards
that they want you know when somebody bridges over to abstract and they load their account with
a hundred dollars and then they play six games and then they're down to 15 why would they come back
you know you're just closing off that game let's say hey these games are a scam i'm not winning
this is bad i'm'm out. Bye.
Whereas you create a dynamic infrastructure
where everybody feels like, hey, I can do a bit of that.
I can do a bit of this.
I can do a bit of that because I have the capital to do it.
You know, I have the, every Friday,
I can claim my DeFi for LP positions on Kona.
I can take those winnings
and I can play some of the mini games in the portal.
That's a self-funding leisure that I'm going to do on Abstract. That works, you know, that works.
Agreed. Yeah. If anyone else has anything they want to say uh any other hot takes or
you know any opinions left if not probably wrap it up
yo is scotty up here as a speaker he was and then uh he scurried back down very bearish
well if scotty if scotty can hear me and want and would come up um i just think scotty's uh
like uh he's like a little bearish themselves like are a good example of like you know they
they came when they first launched on abstract i guess they i think they were on the the builder
sheet that came out but i feel like they didn't have as much abstract support until they started just shipping like crazy and then all of a sudden they had plenty of abstract support
so i don't know i was just going to say if he wanted to come up and share anything about
that or just kind of the you know just just the tale of hope to anyone who does
you know build on abstract and doesn't have support but wins it over through actually having community and demand not just needing the portal to have support but
scott you want to come up oh oh eli did you say you've got one more slot for a hot take
yeah go for it all right one minute i'm surprised that for a small L2, and I'm not attacking you guys, by the way.
I'm just going to put it out because I need you guys to have the perspective.
I'm surprised that for a small L2 doing $8 million volume a day, a new DeFi primitive
comes onto your chain,
attracts $1.2 million of fresh capital.
Do you know how I know it's fresh?
Because when you look at all the charts of all the leading meme coins and protocols on Abstract,
none of them are down in price.
They're actually just ranging.
I'll definitely stop you there.
They're definitely down.
We're definitely down like 70% on almost every top meme coin um
no in the last five days in the last five days yeah but that's what i'm saying i i don't think
it's a lot of fresh capital like i don't i have i would have to really look and see i'm not gonna
do it i'm not gonna track all the funds but i i personally know a lot of people even myself i had
eth left over from when i have sold things that were just kind
of sitting there and i was like waiting for maybe entering a lower chart or whatever that i ended up
putting into kona because i was like okay i have something new to do so i i don't i don't think
it's all fresh new capital a lot of the group chats i'm in or have been throwing in money that
they made from selling nfts or made uh
capitulating the very bottom uh recently you know so but i do agree i think it's i think it's a great
thing that we have kona uh you know the whole thing with abstract luca you know i've talked
about it before but luca on like multiple spaces or streams now has said that tvl and defy wasn't
something they really wanted to focus on.
They really just kind of wanted to focus on consumer experience and UI UX. He regrets it.
They look back and said, yeah, we probably should have been more attentive to it. And that
the upcoming months, they are going to be looking at fixing that. And so I think that's why I brought
it up before, but it's kind of like chicken or the
egg. It's, you know, does DeFi come here once TVL increases or does TVL increase once DeFi
comes here? And so I think it's going to be the ladder where DeFi is going to have to kind of
build here first. And, you know, Kona is here now. Aboreon, I think is, I'm looking forward
to Aboreon because they've been pretty slow about releasing.
It's not like they're rushing to do it.
So I'm looking forward to seeing how Borean works out,
but I for sure think we're going to be getting more,
more DeFi stuff coming soon.
And,
you know,
people are going to look at Kona and be like,
okay,
so it does kind of work in abstract.
Let's go build an abstract then,
or let's finally launch.
So I think it'll work.
But you see what I mean?
Like,
you know, the abstract maxis,is are not putting out goddamn threads about what the abstract just attracted 1.2 million
dollars you know in five days i've definitely everything's defy is booming i've definitely
seen this why not i think you need to follow more people than me i i haven't so i mean maybe maybe
that's on me uh but that's you yeah but yeah i mean but
i honestly i've been i've been kind of like busy at the uh the last week and a half so i haven't
really wanted to write a thread until last night i was like fuck it i'll write a thread uh but i
actually had something that i'm writing uh on kona and aborian i think this week so i i definitely
think maybe you need to follow some more people but i've seen
a lot of kona posts on my timeline all day and all yesterday as well so um i think people are
happy about it i do think a lot of it also comes down to education i think most people still to
this day hear the word defy hear lp uh liquidity pools and they don't actually know what it means
they don't understand how fees work.
And so I think a lot of that is just going to come down to education over time, because getting excited over something you don't know anything about is kind of dangerous,
in my opinion. People are going to lose money providing liquidity through impertinent losses
because they don't understand how it works. So yeah, part of me, I think it's just going to come
with a little
bit of time and education for people uh it's not as simple as i put in my money and chart goes up
and i sell so you know but again what was the point of the token i'm trying to figure out the
whole point of the token the kona token itself yeah uh i'm not super sure i
know that a lot of people like something i didn't like when i was looking at the chart first was
like 200 in and somehow someone made like 40k but then i realized it's because they were um
swapping like the token from before they bridged over it was like whatever it's called uh but i
don't actually know i do know they announced it today
where you're going to be able to stake the Kona token
and earn fees that way as well or something like that.
So I think that's going to be coming into play.
Yeah, it looks like they're going to use it
as a value ofrual token because
you know the protocol is doing good volume i think they did like 400k volume today and if
you're taking one two percent um for fees um you know they just need to build up their tvls growing
so i think once those that volume grows then that token becomes more interesting to stake yeah yeah uh and an idiot an idiot yep an idiot
what's up guys uh man i've been listening to a lot of this i'm at work right now i just got done
wrapping something up i've heard a lot of people complaining about gatekeeping this has been going
on for weeks now i am here to tell you i'm a big fan of the gatekeeping i want them to gatekeep even
harder i had a lot of fun on A-Chain in the earliest days
until the chain got clogged up with dickheads and bullshit.
And I hope that that doesn't happen on Abstract
because it would have happened very quickly if it wasn't gatekept.
I think that the team just doesn't want to work with certain people.
And I don't think they owe anybody a fucking explanation.
You know, foolish, I don't know that much about you brother but like
i've seen people that have negative takes on you and that may have whether true or not i'm not
saying anything about what's true or not but that may well have colored their judgment on whether
or not they wanted to work with you uh i know he's up here trying to convince you guys gamblers
the fucking second coming of jesus christ brother i've been in his discord where he throws a fit because somebody put a fucking emoji on a post and literally offered everybody
refunds. Did everyone, everyone in the chat and then proceeded to put out an announcement saying
he would refund people in a nanosecond. And I know for a fact, I've got like five or six friends.
They're still looking for that fucking refund right now. They've got open tickets, brother.
So all I'm saying is sometimes you guys are going to meet all the metrics that you perceive
other people have met and the team's still going to just decide not to lean into you.
And maybe there's some cabal shit going on.
Maybe there's not.
At the end of the day, it's their fucking portal.
They've got control over it.
And if you've got any real motion, you'll just go build elsewhere and do just fine.
Anyway, that's my thing.
Hey, idiot.
Do you do you like do spaces and stuff?
Yeah, I do.
Well, I co-host.
Okay, you got a great voice for radio.
Yeah, look.
It's got a great face for radio, too, Eli.
Banger, banger.
That was good.
Yeah, I mean, like, look, listen, I'm in a group chat with 150 people,
and I've been told that cabals are usually that big.
So I think it's pretty prevalent here on Abstract.
No, good take, good take.
I mean, Bullish, if you want to respond, I imagine it's going to –
I don't really want to go into back and forth.
Look, to be clear, I'm not accusing Bullish of anything.
I don't fucking care. I don't have a dog in that fight. I'm just accusing bullish of anything. I don't fucking care.
I don't have a dog in that fight.
I'm just saying that.
Yeah, I, um, I mean, I do, I'll be straightforward with you.
We are on an app that you download on a cell phone.
And you can close it anytime and walk away.
Yeah, bro.
Like it just, I don't care for what anybody's opinion or anybody has to say, dude.
Like, I shut this off.
I go spend time with my family.
And then I forget that there's even a fucking app until I log back into it.
So, you know, does this space run crypto?
Yeah, it does, unfortunately.
I think we need to find a way to get out of this crypto Twitter effort chamber.
You're saying this space, like this space specifically, the one you're on right now runs crypto no no no no just like crypto
twitter like crypto twitter in general like it's just like it's an echo chamber you know what i
mean like you log in it's the same shit you log out go touch grass you log back in same shit like
so for me like people are going to have their opinions on me.
I'm a fraud.
I'm a this.
I'm a that, bro.
That's why I have my mugshot as my PFP.
Nobody knows what really happened.
Nobody knows the true background story.
Everybody just goes by what the 5 o'clock news said, which I was happily to be on.
It gave me a lot of clout even to this day.
I get probably 100 plus emails a week
for people still wanting me to come build decks for them.
And I can't even do construction in South Carolina anymore.
But it's like myself.
I give an opinion.
If you take it that seriously on the internet, you really do need to take a look in the mirror and like ask yourself, like, why did that guy just piss me off so much after I watched his video on a fucking application I downloaded on a cell phone?
The takes of me, it's cool. Everybody has an opinion. I respect it, whether it's negative,
whether it's good. It's the internet, dude. You're not going to stop two thumbs in the cell
phone. Let people judge. Let them talk about me. At the end of the day, I'm still top mindshare
in the space. I'm still crushing leaderboards across the board on everything. I'm still doing well. It's not affecting me. It's actually, you're pushing me forward
because I don't think people understand Web3. I've been here for a long time.
The more you FUD, the more clout you give somebody. You're not destroying somebody's
reputation through FUD. You're actually giving them a reputation through FUD because you're
just giving them more mindshare and you're giving more people for reasons to look at them you're gonna get i mean you know
can i just ask a question because real quick i'm bullish is i respect everything that you're
saying but it's not really addressing like my point my point is not i think you did or didn't
do x y and z my point is simply that people in general, you or otherwise,
may have a reputation that a team like Abstract may or may not choose to lean into.
That's all.
That was all my point was.
Well, you know, it is what it is.
You know, it's fucking – they don't want to lean in.
They don't want to lean in.
You know, we's fucking, they don't want to lean in. They don't want to lean in. You know, we move someone else.
I'll say, I don't think, like, my issue with you isn't opinions.
It's when you remove the I think, I feel, and it becomes more accusatory.
Like, that to me is when I have the issue.
But I don't care if someone has an opinion.
That's not a big deal.
But, yeah, fuck. luke what's going on
yeah i was gonna say like kind of a similar thing is like um you know you say that you don't care
if people want to talk shit on the internet because you can just log off and it doesn't
matter it just helps your clout but like all the shit about finn with no like no proof to it like crazy
accusations you're just helping finn's clout then right like why like if you can't i'm gonna be
i'm gonna be straightforward if anybody on this stage or in this space and i was in the trenches
with finn 18 months ago i know his persona if anyone in this space thinks he ain't getting some type of
under the table money, may it not be provable. But if you truly think that man's not getting
some shit slid under the table, God almighty, you have God reckoning coming down on you
because that's just welcome to web three dude yes maybe there's
not hard evidence because it's not going to his public wallet but so like what i'm saying is like
why don't you just reframe it and be like i feel like finn's probably getting paid on the table
like i think like if you say that you're right you're right no i have no problem hearing like
that but when i hear it's like oh if you don't think finn's doing that you're fucking retarded
or finn's doing it and i have evidence like to me that's when I'm like okay
but if you're like you know I think Finn might be getting paid under the table like I'm okay with
someone saying that I'm like yeah okay that's an opinion you're speculating on it that's fine like
to me if when something's like framed that way that's like you know that's an opinion you're
speculating on it that's fine I just this is the only thing I can recall.
And when I was in the ABS M efforts chat, what I can recall is every time one of y'all,
well, not you, I know you didn't really partake in the moonshot gambling, but I recall, and
I don't want to call zaddy out or I don't want to call anybody out, but I do recall once finally the ABS cabal finally pushed the token to bond and it did some running.
I always saw Finn getting tagged. Yo, Finn, I'm going to shoot you a DM. I'm going to shoot you a DM, blah, blah, blah.
And the last thing I remember, the last token i remember launched was the s&p
7000 token before i got kicked out of that chat and i remember yo finn dm me about s&p
yo finn dm me and then now listen let me finish because this is true because it wasn't launched
in there well right but it wasn't launched there it wasn't regardless of it being launched there or not there was still numerous tags in
about fin in that token and then all of a sudden less than a week later a 500k market cap token
had a blue check over a 4.5 million dollar gugo token so well do you okay okay i do you
i don't really want to okay okay. I like the Google community.
You can't argue it.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not, no, that's not why I'm hesitant. No, you're wrong. That's not why I'm hesitant. I'm hesitant because I don't want, I don't want like, you know, a certain community to think that I'm talking poorly upon them.
them uh because i do like like i like google and all that kind of stuff but you know i don't think
i think it's public now that they were doing you know doing a lot of kickbacks but that's how they
got a lot of tokens to people it's like you know you buy it here and we give you a sale and that's
kind of how it was spread to a majority of buyers like a not majority i'll just say a large amount
of buyers and i think to them that was a red flag um and i told look i told dd king
that originally as well uh and so to me i don't think it's you can't really compare it because
it is orange and apples because it's it was completely different right like one was
kind of getting tokens around in a different way whereas s&p i think that like that wasn't in in
that group chat i think there was like a whole Discord that that was launched in.
I don't want to say the name because I don't want to be wrong,
but that one's, again, that's very different.
And I kind of want to go back to this again.
That group chat you guys keep mentioning,
it's a group chat of 150 people.
It's a normal abstract group chat,
same size as all the other ones.
It's honestly almost the same people
as all the other ones
because abstract is so small.
It's like, I see these people
in every single group chat anyways.
And every group chat is always going to have people
who make a coin, launch a coin, shill it.
I get tagged up.
People thought I bundled Gooner
and I didn't come into abstract
until like a month
after gunner launched so it's like that to me once i've been accused of enough shit where it's like
i look at i'm like this is so stupid it's kind of given me clarity to understand that a lot of the
things that people tinfoil had around are so off the mark and again that group chat it's the same as any other group chat the same as any
discord i've ever been in x group chats telegram discord people are finding tokens really early
maybe some people are making them i don't like yeah i mean it's it's always the same wherever
you go it's definitely not a cabal chat because it's like a hundred again i don't think that the
ball is 150 people of other people leaking messages like a hundred again i don't think that the ball is 150 people
of other people leaking messages everywhere all the time i don't think that's what a cabal is i
think that would be probably a failing cabal and if it's a failing cabal i i don't see why anyone
would complain about it but i think people keep tossing around this whole concept of you know
and it's it's you know i don't really feel like mentioning certain people who don't deserve their names even being spoken.
But, you know, it's just group chats.
It's not like a four-man army saying, hey, we're going to push this and we're going to control this.
Maybe there is one.
And if there is, can you give me ECA, please?
please because i haven't been able to sell a token in a long time uh but moark uh up here moark just
Because I haven't been able to sell a token in a long time.
replied to the space and said okay this is such and this is a moark leader of speak uh leader
founder of speakeasy this is such a common thing and fucking stupid regarding smp's verification
there was no backdoor deals to get smp verified smp sent luca 7.7 to his public wallet basically
a burn not a bribe because Luca
doesn't sell anything and it was just to get exposure for the token basically uh it was worth
like 150k at the time at the top Luca's biggest holding uh in the public wallet they didn't have
much choice than to either verify token or hide the token uh from the portal that's what happened
yeah so I this again they just played it smart they sent 150k worth of a
token uh to the wallet and they basically for them it was a strat to pressure them into verifying it
i didn't even know that that was uh that was the shot they ran which is interesting but again i
i i know finn and like you think you know finn but i actually like i hang i i hang out with him iro
and i'm also not the type to like kiss ass i think people know this i've i butt heads with
finn publicly a lot and i think that's what friends should do uh but i also don't like let
people crash him when he's not here to defend himself especially stuff where it's like i know
that it's not true um Obviously, I don't know everything
and every text Finn has ever had.
I'm not going to act like that.
But S&P is not giving him money.
These tokens aren't giving him money.
I've had conversations with him
where he legit has, I've thought,
like, okay, well, maybe people are working
with individuals directly.
And it's just like andy
said like they they won't they they literally disprove it at every corner um at least from
an individual level like abstract themselves working with partners and getting uh cuts i
don't think they're even doing that but again like anyways i'll boil it back down to i i personally
and i'll say his opinion i don't think finn's getting paid on the table
i don't think he's being sketchy um i think he values his professional career way more than his
crypto career uh in the sense of like to him he's not a trading man right he's not like that's not
how he's coming up he's coming up through his career with abstract and so i think that's how
he handles things and entries things uh and again i have no problem with people speculating i would
love to see evidence when people are kind of like pushing that narrative but again it all comes down
to framing in my opinion i just don't like the accusatory stuff because as i've grown again dude
think about it like this i started started creating content in April, right?
And I had 20K followers.
Most of them were dead because I chose to try to make music in Web3 for like a year and a half, which was fun as a creative, a shot in the foot if you want to grow in the space or make money in the space.
And so I had 20K, but I was never like massive.
And then I started creating content on abstract I got
really big really fast and it's not like to be like self-sucking dick but you know I just grew
faster than I expected and I wasn't prepared for it mentally and it's first time that I have like
you know people speculating making rumors about me tinfoil theories and it just kind of
illuminated to me the things that i used to say about bigger creators
or quote-unquote kawell's that i look back on i'm just like okay well i didn't actually know
and i was just kind of like speculating because i they were the top dog as an underdog uh they were
you know in higher positions it was kind of easier to, to, you know, character assassinate or stuff like that. And so I don't know,
I'm not trying to like glaze fan. I'm not trying to like do any of that,
but I'm just trying to be like honest from my perspective,
from my own personal experience and from being around some of these people.
So then maybe I'm in the same position you were in then is what it feels like.
Like that you're tinfoil hatting when it's not, they're not really like,
like that.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I look, I, I think so. Genuinely.
I think so. Look, I, I think we have to,
and I'll always be the first to admit I'm wrong. No. And I, and I appreciate,
I look, I appreciate you even like saying that you don't, if you believe it or not right like it's the reality is that people
are going to always have clicks people are always going to form opinions together uh it's it's
really impossible for that not to happen and it sucks when you're not in the benefactory side of it, right?
Like if you have a personality that rubs people the wrong way, and so you're not really like friendly with them and they don't feel like any goodwill to want to, you know, help you or benefit you.
And so you're left out of things like that sucks ass, right?
But it's not like that's a cup ball thing.
That's just like a human
thing. It's people, people might not feel interested in the product or the person or,
or whatever. And so look to me, I think that's what the case is in most of these aspects.
Sure. There's going to be small group chats that create stuff, but like, dude, that's how anything
is made. Right. Like even think about an NFT project. If I have an NFT project, Ift project i'm gonna want to push it in group chats well now i'm pushing it for people to
buy and so it's like same thing as someone makes a token and then pushes a token for someone to buy
the only hope and goal is that that person has good intentions uh not bad will so again to me
i think a lot of this is is people are just on the winning side or the losing side,
or they're both on the losing side.
Look, I think in six months, a lot of this won't matter.
This will be a blip.
Just like the stuff in June, when we were at the bottom of the market in June.
A lot of this stuff, a lot of the drama that happened back then,
nobody even remembers.
This is just capitulation.
Everyone's upset with each other.
Not everything is fair.
Look, maybe the chain isn't for some people.
Chains aren't really based on technology.
They're based on marketing.
AVAX is not...
People don't care about the tech.
They care about the marketing. Ronan
really focused on gaming. AVAX focused on gaming. And now they're focused on a lot of, uh,
like institutional stuff. Aftrack focused on consumer side of things base as well. Like,
but the tech isn't super different. Um, but the, the chains are also run in a different
like way, right? It's a lot of it is based on personality of leadership or, or goals.
And so I don't think everybody needs to agree. I don't think everybody needs to feel like this is the
chain for them. But I do think I do like challenge people to kind of like self reflect and say,
okay, well, is this because I'm not getting treated the way I want? Is it actually like a
core fundamental issue? Are people actually like gatekeep like again people are like oh well
you know the people say that oh eli's gatekeeping right he's like he's not talking about this token
because he doesn't have a bag it's like well okay rewind maybe i don't have a bag because i don't
like the token right like it's it could it's just as simple as that but people always create some
narrative to where it's he didn't get in early.
I'll buy a token whenever if I like it, whatever.
And so I think a lot of it comes down to trying to communicate instead of assume.
I think almost every single war, every single, and I'm not trying to get super deep,
but every fight, a lot of it stems down to the other person not understanding,
people not willing to communicate or trying to understand the other person's perspective. I think it comes down to that. Um, Jesus Christ, I went to preacher
mode again. Uh, but look, that that's kind of where, where I stand bullish. I look,
you guys have a lot of fighting, a lot of drama and a lot lot of accusations i really don't think that it needs to happen um
i generally think like you know and this is not with your nft project right like i'm just saying
this in general but like if people aren't interested in project or a game or something
like that it doesn't always mean that they're out to get you that doesn't always mean that there's
a cabal working against you i can personally tell you being in that group chat, still being in that group chat, there's
no controlling in there.
Like if there was, I wouldn't be rich, right?
Like if there was, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be emotional when my bags are down 80% because
I would have made so much money behind the scenes.
Right.
And so like, and look, I tried not to crash on the timeline.
My bags are down insane.
But if, if I was actually Cabal, if we were in these group chats,
I would be living my life playing Borderlands for not giving a single fuck,
but that's not the case.
Uh, and everyone's kind of in the same boat here.
So it's not meant to be a kumbaya, but I'm going to wrap it up with that.
Uh, I appreciate every single person here for tuning in for, you know,
two hours.
I think abstract is going to be fine i generally do i i think it's i'm not going to say the bullshit like
don't fade luca but i i think people on the team and luca have enough experience and you know
willingness to not lose you know i'm willing to bet on someone who would rather bash his head into a wall than
publicly lose and so i i think they'll figure it out i think people like tony who who come in here
who don't know the the inside drama they just saw the chain for what it was and they thought it looked
cool and fun and there's new stuff to do like this is what we should be kind of like grouping together to work towards rather than
you know echoing the same bullshit the same drama and then eventually it bleeds out into these new
users who had no idea and were just enjoying their time and again it's not meant to be kumbaya
just my perspective and how i feel uh and obviously i'm i'm bullish on abstract. I'm also over-allocated in every form. And, like, you know, I finally hit diamond today.
So I want it to do good, right?
So I do have some bias.
But, yeah.
Okay, anyways.
You hit the fake diamond.
Yeah, I hit the fake diamond.
It looks like silver.
I don't know why.
But, okay, anyways.
I'll see you on Borderlands.
Yeah, see you there.
But, all right, I appreciate everyone.
I'm going to go make food.
I really hope this was a good chat
and people got to learn a little bit,
talk a little bit.
Yeah, all right.
Love you guys.
See you.
