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#ADLFILES LIVE: Elon To Sue ADL! (crashed)
Recorded: Sept. 5, 2023 Duration: 2:20:01Space Recording
Short Summary
The discussion centered around the influence and actions of the ADL, particularly in relation to Elon Musk and Twitter. Concerns were raised about the ADL's power to influence advertisers and its role in censorship. The conversation also touched on the implications of such influence on free speech and the potential legal battles Musk might face. Various perspectives were shared, including criticisms of the ADL's methods and its impact on different communities.
Full Transcription
Oh my god, Matrix attack, ADL attack.
Yeah, I'll let you lead to space.
Let me set up the get the speakers up to a couple of minutes.
But some people are saying it's the Vivian lady and her team reporting the space.
Obviously, I don't think it is, but just some people putting that in the comments.
Matrix attack, BlackRock attack.
But man, like you've been getting very heated on this one, unlike your usual spaces.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, you know what it is.
A few issues I'm a bit passionate about.
This is one of them.
Well, I'm passionate about a lot issues,
but some are more important than others.
So let me get the speakers back up.
Maybe you could just refresh the room slowly
instead of just waiting silently for me
as I get the speakers up.
Yeah, course, guys.
I can give you refresh.
So first of all, the space crashed.
We don't know how it crashed.
We don't know if it was a Matrix attack.
We don't know if it was an ADL attack.
We don't know what was going on.
We had 10,000 listeners.
The space was fire.
I'll let you decide what happened.
Was it a random?
Was it a causation?
Was it a correlation?
We have no idea.
I will let the people decide.
Coming back to the,
issue at hand. Let's talk about it.
So Elon Musk has been posting significantly.
He is going to sue the ADL or he is indicating that he's going to sue the ADL for defamation.
The Anti-Defamation League is going to be sued for defamation.
The reason for it is because of, I don't know the exact reason for in terms of the verbiage of what occurred,
but in terms of overall or from a holistic perspective, it's...
The reasoning is that the ADL have been using their power to essentially make sponsors leave Twitter.
If sponsors leave Twitter, what happens?
The entire platform dies because the platform relies on sponsors.
Why does an organisation that only has, according to Tira, 100 million, is only worth 100 million?
able to have that level of power, that level of strength that they're able to destroy a $44 billion company.
And so then my argument on my thesis was that they've got, they're basically siphoning the money to different branches, different organizations, and then use them to be able to do it.
So I think this lawsuit is going to be very hard for Elon to win because is he going to be able to find direct correlation between people?
ADL and the sponsors.
Is he going to be able to find direct correlation of what they said?
I think that's not going to be easy.
It looks like the ADL is very smart, very sly.
Sorry, very savvy.
Some would say very sly in terms of the way they use their funding to provide it to these various organizations.
Right.
I think that's a quite fair and balanced.
It's not a fair or balanced.
It's a good overview.
Definitely not fair or balanced.
But yeah, Chief, I know you were trying to jump in earlier.
You did a great thread on this.
I want to get your thoughts on what you've heard so far in the last space.
I know what your position is.
I know you're very critical of the ADL.
But maybe try to give us a balance for you and maybe
Is there any merit to the argument that the ADL wasn't always as they are now?
And also, if you can touch on how powerful are they really?
Because I'm pretty surprised by the amount of noise is all creating.
Any examples of previous things they've done where they managed to cancel someone,
cancel a company, impact a company the way they're impacting X right now?
Chief, you can go to an overview.
That will be great.
Yeah, sure. So answer all the questions. In its foundation, the ADL was defending an very evil person, Leo Frank. And the documentation is very clear on this. You can look at Un's review on that. It gives historical evidence primary documentation that explains very clearly that Leo was guilty about all this. And there was about huge.
Huge amount of might over $20 million in today's money spent to defend Leo Frank.
And still, he's found guilty along his peers.
The evidence is pretty conclusive.
And it was very, very clear with the results.
And you can look at it.
And it's very short evidence for that.
But getting to other things in terms that we said about,
them pressuring people to be removed.
They pressured for Trump to remove.
They pressured for lots of users to be removed.
They actually have a list of individuals
who are basically barred from returning to Twitter
according to the ADL.
On the list was Trump.
It was Kanye West or Ye.
It was Nick.
Hold on.
What's that list?
Sorry, I'm actually curious.
And by the way, where's Kili?
Kili, I would love that clip to be played as well
that we mentioned last place.
We'll do that in a bit.
I'll send you a co-host invite.
But, Chief, hold on.
What's that list that you're referring to?
Yeah, so the ADO put a list out saying that things look out for on Twitter with the acquisition,
and they name five individuals who they do not want to be put back on the platform, essentially.
And they were lobbying for not to have Trump back, not to have a couple other people back as well, like Nick, Alex Jones, yay.
And I think David Duke was the fifth one.
And they were calling about that and telling Elon not to let the people back.
And what they did at Trump back.
And they were public with that list, sorry to interrupt you.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's publicly.
You know, the ABL, five, you know, people, individuals.
But, you know, in terms of foundations, it's a very bad group there as well.
They spy on anti-Israel activists in 1990 in San Francisco.
Huge case about that.
They have lots of ties, not just in social media, but in real life.
Financially...
Kyle Cliffs and put a video out, a hidden camera video exposing the ADL saying that they lobby for Stripe and GoFundMe to take down campaigns from people that, you know, apparently are extremists or whatever.
So they go financially at people.
They lobby people fired.
They lobby law enforcement, FBI.
They use AI to monitor people.
And they put their actual technology on live streams and podcasts to look for certain buzzwords.
They can flag.
Right.
They also go and go into schools.
They have propaganda pushing schools about Israel, LGBT, and I've right about other ratios, too.
This is a very dangerous group in terms of their influence.
They're in all of our lives, which we want to admit it or not, and we should be very wary with this group and how much power they have over us.
Elon has the ability as the owner of X to ban whoever he wants to.
So let's let's have them get banned.
Show them if they were to try banning us, canceling us, attacking us, financially on social media, even with law enforcement and gay-asspired, debanking us, then we should go to say ban the ADL.
So anyone has the right to, and he should, just have an example for free speech and to protect its users, his company, his employees, and his reputation of this very powerful group.
That's interesting.
Were they in the β does anyone remember the Twitter files?
Were they β
part of anyone getting suspended back then,
did they play a big part of the Twitter files?
I don't remember.
It's been that long ago.
Does anyone know how big of a role
the ADL played in the Twitter files?
Okay, if anyone does...
Yeah, go ahead, Chief. Maybe you know.
I will say, well, in terms of public interviews, what the ADO is done in many public interviews on NBC, CNBC, and other groups like in other media outlets, they specifically say they're in contact communication with social media companies like Zoom, like Google, Facebook, etc.
They say it's all the time in public interviews. They're constant contact with them. They say it all the time. So they 100%
have coordination with Twitter,
and they, for instance,
lobby Facebook to change their policy
out of the allow denialism on their platform
and basically use over 200 companies
as leverage against Facebook,
which made them,
change their whole policy on what's allowed on Facebook with denialism. So they have power
and they coordinate. If you'll agree with their demands, they will use corporations and their
partners to basically hold you hostage and make you do what they want. So, Chief, just I want to
take a step back. I'm trying to get Tira back on and Fiji will be joining us back in 10 minutes.
But I would obviously everyone on stage right now is critical of the ADL. So BZ, I'm not sure about
your stance. But
if anyone in the audience has a different day,
because I always like to look at both sides of every single argument,
even if I disagree with it.
So in this case, if anyone has, you don't have to be pro ADL.
I don't want to give you that tag.
Everyone has a different take on it, a more nuanced take,
on some of the good things that the ADL has done.
If going back to Tucker's quote, that the ADL wasn't always
as bad as he thinks they are now.
Please do come up on stage.
DM me and the team will bring you up,
but we do want speakers that will give us different sides to the argument
on why the ADL is not that almighty,
almighty powerful organization that is trying to kill censorship,
as it's seeming to be right now based on what we're seeing.
I do want to go to you, BZ, if you don't mind, BZ,
how well do you know the ADL?
Have they always been as they are now?
Is it like, is it as Tucker, is it as Tucker says that they weren't, they were, they were good organization.
They did the right thing for many years, but now under this new leader, I keep forgetting his name, Kilesi mentioned his name, but under this new leader, the new CEO, they're obviously being, yeah.
Green blood.
Yeah, so the answer is I don't know, right?
I'm not really that familiar with them.
Like, they blocked me and I'm Jewish, I'm Israeli, they called me anti-Semitic.
I still don't know why.
But I send you something in your DM, Mario.
So Dana Bash from CNN, I remember watching this, right?
She did a whole series on anti-Semitism.
And she went sort of behind the scenes.
There is, I can't remember which agency it is in Washington, but there is, if you check out the video there, right?
The ADL does have an office within...
I want to say maybe the FBI in the building, in one of the buildings there,
and they have like a cyber command where they monitor social media.
I've said the receipt.
The video is there from the point.
So that's probably, yeah, that's a little bit overboard for me.
Like I say, I'm not that familiar with them.
I've never had to go.
And I don't know why I would, you know. I just I don't agree with censoring people. Look, there is a difference between saying, you know, let's let's rally up and do something to Jewish people, but those things aren't happening, right? Let's just be real. Let's be realistic here, right? Yes, there's isolated events, but there's isolated events of violence against African Americans, against Muslims, against women, against everything. So,
You know, I think, though, it says something that me as a Jewish person and as Israeli person,
simply because I quote tweeted that Keith guy and tagged up that Pet Kavage guy, right, asked, well, why are you going after this guy?
Like, it's free speech.
The fact that they label me anti-Semitic.
you know, is comical.
And again, I just, I think it does more probably to promote the anti-Semitism.
Like I say, I have thick skin.
I've been called every name in the book, but I've also called other people every name in the book, right?
They're just words.
Like, let people have an open dialogue.
And if you don't want to have an open dialogue, then maybe the people who want to stifle free speech,
I know that fidgetle will disagree with me on that.
We can butt heads later on that.
But then go to a move to a country in which free speech is not.
encouraged right there's just words i just people got to grow up and develop thicker skin that
that that's my view real quick for context by the FBI um when a d aides has partner of law enforcement
and they specifically say um that they are partners with FBI they have provided the um 80
the adio center on extremism has provided law enforcement with critical intelligence about
extremism over 1300 times
and then in terms of the actual users in which were kind of targeted on the deep green stain deep
platform users from the adl it specifically says addition to trump other high profile and dangerous
individuals may be made may be allowed to return to twitter talking about um that nick fentes
david doug alks jones steve bannett and andrew tate so there are again efforts to specifically
single out users
and say for Twitter or X not to have these people back on.
And they're actually criticizing Elon for firing the Yaha Gaddi,
the Twitter former head of trust policy and safety.
Right.
So they try to go and target users like Nick Fuentes,
Alex Jones, Andrew Tate, Steve Bannon and David Duke.
You may not agree with all of them,
but they are targeting individuals and users
and say you can't have speech on there.
And Elon does that.
So did they want to ban Andrew Tate as well?
Was he on the list?
that's crazy this is okay so i try to be as by as as as as uh balance as possible but this is
crazy like to be any organization i want fidgetle to be back and i wish t r will join back as well
because i'd love to go back and forth on this one but the ability to have someone on a list and be able to
to ban them from a platform, that's cancellation
on a whole other level.
And Sully knows, I don't agree with a lot of the things
that Tate said or says, but to be able to cancel them
based on those is too much.
But look, I don't want to give my opinion.
I do want TIR and Fidger or anyone else to come on
and to have a balanced discussion.
I do want to go back to Kaleisi, you did mention earlier, if you guys just prevent this tweet, pinning anything for just for now.
Actually, you can pin it if it's relevant to the discussion.
Whoever just pinned this, feel free to pin it again if it's relevant to the discussion.
Kalesi, you did mention a clip earlier by Jonathan Greenblatt, the CEO of ADL.
Can you go back and you refer to what that clip says and play it again for us?
Yeah.
Yeah, he talks about how he's working, or the ADL are working with all social media companies.
And then he talks about right at the end.
So he names them, like Google, YouTube, whatever, matter.
And then he says, and we worked with Twitter 1.0, and we're working with Twitter today as well.
So I'm just going to play it.
Yeah, can you say.
Yeah.
And the FBI one, I think, go ahead, sorry.
We opened a center of the...
No, I was going to say, I want to touch on the FBI.
Having an office within the FBI building is just fascinating as well.
I want to dig into that.
But go ahead.
I'll let you play the clip.
So literally, we opened a center in Silicon Valley back in 2017.
And the woman who runs it, she's an ex-Facebook executive.
I have software engineers and data scientists working at ADL.
We're monitoring all this stuff.
And we're working with all the platforms, by the way.
Google and YouTube and meta and Twitter and Reddit and Steam and Amazon, all these companies.
From like Apple to Zoom, we work with all of them, okay?
That's relevant because we've been working with Twitter now since it was founded.
We work with the old regime, working with the new regime.
So that's the clip, Mario, which is why I've been saying that this isn't about a religion.
So when people come here and say, oh, it's anti-Semitic, or when people come here and say,
oh, let's make it about the funding, it really isn't.
I think most people are struggling to express that their concerns are around the power,
the surveillance power, the censorship power that ADL have got and have had for a considerable amount of time on normal citizens,
not only of the USA, but people like me, like we're all censored, right?
We can all be censored on this platform and trade doesn't live in America, you know?
So this is where the topic should be.
And what I find is that often, and we have had spaces on this, to literally talk about this issue.
There's a lot of deviation tactics to make it about, well, there's no free speech anywhere.
Who said this free speech?
But, you know, here's the thing.
Some speech is free on this platform, others isn't.
So there's no level playing field, right?
And you know that, right?
Some things are more acceptable than others because ADL drives the strategy.
It drives a strategy on social media.
It drives a strategy in Congress.
It doesn't request.
It demands who should be appointed, what should happen, how much should be funding, what programs.
And this data is easily available.
So really what we need to talk about is the power of an organization across social media.
This is not a safe environment.
And it's...
At the moment, I see Elon Musk really, look, it's not about the details of the lawsuit.
We can't sit here and say what proof may or may not be available.
We don't know.
I don't think he's going to publish his receipts on social media prior to going to court.
If he does indeed go to court.
But it's not even about that.
It's the fact that I've never seen the head of any social media organization,
take a stand and call it out and expose something that many of us have known for a long time
You just need to go and look into Johnson Greenblatt, put in Elon or put in Twitter or go into ADL's Twitter page and put in Elon.
And you'll see that they have literally been, I mean, in October he said, I have laid down the gauntlet to Elon, what I expect.
And this has been the way it's been running and Elon's just had enough and that's my interpretation of it.
He's had enough.
Why does this organisation have so much power?
Yeah, I want to.
So there's a new tweet by Elon of an article and I want to go to Ariel after this.
Ariel, good to have you on stage.
Get your thoughts on it.
But the article is by political.
It was by, it was a look at the day.
It was on the 7th of March 2020.
It was.
three years ago, more than three and a half years ago.
Inside the ad boycott
that has Facebook on the defensive,
hundreds of companies,
iboquodding the social media giant.
He's the backstory of how it happened.
Wow.
So Facebook went through their own boycott, the advertising boycott battering Facebook is unlike anything the social media giant has faced in its 16-year history.
Three days in, 800 companies worldwide have pulled millions of dollars in advertising from the social network with brands for Coca-Cola to Ford to Unilever demanding that Facebook monitor hate speech more aggressively.
So, and then Elon tweets that out.
He could look at the article.
The latest tweet by Elon five minutes ago.
He tweets it out and he says,
So Facebook caved to far left pressure groups
and now allows them to silently dictate policy
in exchange for ad money.
What I feel happened,
and I try not to give too many opinions,
but what I feel happened here is that Elon,
he was fighting censorship very vocally, very openly.
And, um,
He's taken a lot of steps in that direction,
and then kind of moved away,
got Linda in a CEO and was focused on getting advertisers back.
And I think he's worked with advertisers,
he's trying to find some middle ground in some places.
We've debated the Turkey decision a while ago,
I mean, he still disagreed on that one.
But I think that the pressure has just been so extensive that despite everything he's done, they're still pressuring him for more.
And he was at a tough position.
It's me looking at all these tweets and listening to this discussion for hours.
He's had a tough decision where he's got to decide.
It's like, oh, my values are the values that I've instilled within X and the what was once called X.
X.A.I was initially called Truth GPT are being challenged.
And either I stand my ground and stand by those values or I...
And I fight against the ADL or the ADL and other organizations.
I'm sure there's others.
Or I cave in like Facebook did.
And obviously we see what choice is taking.
That's how I, you know, hopefully it's the right decision.
We'll see what happens to X.
For us, it's all of us, you know, it's easy for us to say,
hey, you've made the right decision.
Stand by your values.
But the last thing we want is to see X just bleed, be bled out of money.
That will be obviously the, the, you know, shows that everything we've done is at no avail because we lost.
But Ariel, I want to get your thoughts on this and maybe your thoughts on my take of everything I've heard so far,
as well as the video, the audio that Kilesi played.
Ariel?
Thank you very much.
Yes, thank you.
Well, we're in a situation when we need to maybe send a notice to ADL to not pull the Joker of anti-Semitic behavior without any reasonable cause.
Yes.
And I agree with Elon Musk, especially with YOL Roth in Twitter and Amy Palmore on Facebook,
that there is a lot of abuse behind the scenes.
If you remember Mario in...
Back in the past, when the Twitter files, dumps were coming,
we spoke about the FBI in the CIA with a lot of connection in the State Department,
and not everybody believed what we said to them,
but this was a big window about human rights violation behind the scenes about censorship and all that.
Now, Kalis is right. It's not about religion. It's about political and economical issues. A lot of political issues inside Israel, when we are talking about the judiciary reform, when we are talking about human rights and civil rights, children's rights, all that. That's something that usually...
In Israel, and I'm in Israeli, I'm talking as an Israeli, there is a big screen.
This is a big screen that usually you want.
So you're saying, hold on, you're saying, but are you saying,
So Ariel, are you saying that religion is being used here, is being leveraged for other reasons,
whether political or corporate reasons?
As a guiche.
As a guiche.
Go ahead.
That's a go ahead.
Busy, go ahead.
And just for the record, just for anyone that doesn't know,
Ariel is, I don't want to label you anything,
but you've got very strong stances when it comes to the state of Israel,
et cetera, and you're making those statements.
Is that something I expected?
So it's actually really interesting.
Bezzi?
Yeah, no, I agree with Ariel, right?
So it's hijacking, right?
Like, again, I am Jewish, also born in Israel,
but I just, you know, not every little thing in the world,
any little criticism, this or that,
are saying, hey, I'd like the...
Say this or investigate this or that is anti-Semitism.
That is absolutely what the ADO is.
From what you're right, how powerful are they?
Will they really have the ability to...
Yes.
Very powerful.
They're very powerful.
Let's just be very honest here, right?
It's Ben, everyone, and they call me BC.
It's me.
At the end of the day, they're very powerful, right?
And I would argue that if you took a poll of Israelis, I would even probably say that 80%, in my mind, would say ban the ADL because they do more harm than good.
Again, when you have a powerful group, right, that is supposed to combat
notions that Jews control the world and pull all the strings,
when you have Jewish people behind those organizations that literally are pulling the strings,
trying to get people canceled and interfere with this and that.
I mean, you're promoting the stereotype, right?
And so I agree with Ariel.
There's a few people in this room that I've spoke to.
Antigonism.
Antigonism, yeah.
And they're calling us auto-antisemi.
Otto anti-Semite, auto-anti-San.
Ariel has also been labeled an anti-Samite.
You know, there's people-Hon, hold on, sorry, two-six,
Ariel's been labeled, I know Ariel's, I've had him on space before,
and the Palestine, Israel, and I am.
Yes, and I am an anti-Semite.
Yeah, he's an odd-in-is-a-so am I, right?
No, but you've been labeled, hold on,
but you've been labeled as such by the ADL?
Yes?
Oh, no, I don't know about the ADL.
But it's the same people once they can sit in the ADDL.
So the question I have for you, the question, yeah, go ahead, Ben, go ahead.
The last thing is this, right, let's just be real.
They're very powerful.
Of course they are, right.
And if they want to be an interest group that protect the interests of their charter or who,
that's fine, right, but when you have a group like that interfering with
with things like politics and even interactions that we're having on Twitter and social media,
that's a problem.
And you're literally telling people, by the way, yeah, we do control the world.
We do control the means of media.
We do control this or that because we can have somebody canceled, right?
Like I said, this Keith gentleman, I got blocked.
by the head of the ADL, simply because I quote tweeted him and said,
what did this guy say that would, something like, I can go pull it up.
What did this guy say that you could construe his anti-Semitic?
Then I called anti-Semitic simply because I agreed that he has a right to say what he wants.
That's sick.
And I was studying together with his brother.
Yeah.
a green blood's brother in the Hebrew University in Shbuzelam.
But how do they get that powerful?
So if we're talking, if you're saying, so, Ben, you've made a statement that,
he was the government, he worked for the government though, too, right?
He worked in one of the administration.
The CEO of ADL?
Yeah, he, I forget what he did, right?
But it's, what it comes down to is who can pull in the biggest donations and
That's just the blunt truth, right?
And I'll finish with this.
They do more to promote anti-Semitism than most people.
And they interfere with politics, not just the United States.
My view has been this.
There's people in this room who have views differ from mine.
What do I do?
I engage with them.
People have these weird views about this, and I say, well, let's talk about it.
And you know what, I've become friends with a lot of them in the space,
who, by the ADL standards, would have been anti-Semitic?
Again...
Yes, and then the next question is, do they have,
so whoever can answer this particular question,
not sure who was trying to jump in,
but you were talking about them being very powerful,
but we are talking about one of the biggest
social media platforms in the world,
and one of the, I think,
Elon is still the richest person in the world.
So they're not fighting against a random small company
or some celebrity, some influence, or Kanye or Tate.
If Elon's taking on that fight, obviously he is, do they have enough influence to take on the richest man in the world?
Yes, yes, they do absolutely.
Because they...
Yes, but one issue, Ben, they don't represent Israel.
They don't represent all the Jewish people.
And they shouldn't.
Because they're actually doing us more harm than good.
Right.
They represent, this should be very clear,
they do not represent right-wing interests.
They do not represent the interests of people
or citizens of Israel.
What they represent, in my opinion,
is it just my opinion.
They represent usually far-left...
democratic Jewish people that have a lot of influence, right?
Now, I...
Yes, and they're using the anti-Semitic code.
You, absolutely, right?
I mean...
Can I pop your guy from there?
Yeah, of course.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Because I host a nightly podcast, very strongly American firsts.
I haven't been an Orthodox Jew.
I'm telling you right now, Jonathan Greenblatt could not be more aptly named if he renamed himself Jonathan Goebbels.
This guy has harmed Jews in ways that are immeasurable compared to the worst known anti-Semites out there are a joke compared to what he has done with the ADL.
Because what he has basically done is he cries wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, all the time.
on things that are patently stupid.
And it's all, it's got nothing to do with Judaism as a faith.
It's got nothing to do with the Jewish people.
It is purely about, he's abusing.
He's actually abusing the fact that there is actual anti-Semitism out there,
far less than he claims.
But there is some out there, and he abuses that,
the same way the ACLU claims that they're standing up for civil liberties
when they never do.
So the ADL stands up for Jews when they're never standing up for Jews.
They don't give the slightest damn about Jews.
Right.
This is ultimately about power and control.
Can I ask you for a favor?
Can I ask you for a favor?
This is just fascinating to me.
I've hosted, I don't know how many hundred spaces so far.
It's been so difficult to find someone that can give us the other side.
Tierra was really kind to do so.
We had Fidgett or do so.
He's going to be on in a few minutes.
And we had Vivian.
Then she totally disappeared off of Twitter when someone likely found out that she worked for.
Was it Blackstone?
What was it, Ben?
Ben?
Black Cube, Black Cube, yes, the Israeli intelligence agency.
You could go to my profile on CV.
It's to the following.
I didn't know the...
Yeah, I didn't know that the following...
I do you say, I will not...
I just say I just muted everybody.
But let me ask the question of following,
and then I'll just go to whoever was speaking,
just put your hand up, because I don't know who it was, but following...
It's been very difficult to get the other side.
And I've even asked the team, like, can you go to people that are very far right, far left
in Israel, people that have strong stances when it comes to anti-Semitism?
And it was very difficult to find anyone to come on and say positive things about the ADL
or even give a different take.
And people that did so, they did it in a very, you know, TIRR is not pro-AIDL, neither is
fidgetal, and they've been just kind of giving the other side of the argument.
So my question to you is, can you play devil's advocate please?
And since you interview people.
and you're an Orthodox Jew, maybe you can help us,
and anyone else that could do the same thing.
I don't want anyone to be critical of the ADL
for the next couple of minutes.
Yeah, so we'll go, Ben,
and then we'll go following if you can as well.
Anyone else can after following.
Ben, you can go first.
What is their side of the story?
Where are they getting the money?
What do they stand for?
Do they really, are they trying to stand for the right thing
but are going too far, or are their intentions
misaligned with their mission?
Well, first of all, so where they get in their money from?
I'm aware of the published reports.
I don't necessarily believe them.
I'm under the impression.
I'm pretty sure that I'm right that if proper forensic accounting was done,
you'd see a lot of government money from the U.S. going to them just in maybe roundabout ways
and trying to circumnavigate certain ways, comes from donations.
I think their bottom line argument would be this.
Our people have been persecuted so much.
we need to provide some type of organization to combat it that argument doesn't hold water with me
whatsoever i'm just trying to play devil's advocate and if you want my bottom line i think they're
very interested in influence in u.s policy right they are not uh conservative people they are not
interested in
letting, for instance, Israel, let Israel decide its own judicial problems, this and that.
They're interested in controlling a lot of US politics.
And the last thing is the following.
I didn't know you were Jewish.
Now that you are, I will concede that one of your legal takes over the past year has been correct.
So, Ben, essentially your take is, if it's, Keith, if it's going to be this playing devil's advocate and telling us the other side of the coin.
I don't know if you could do that, Keith.
It's a tough one.
Well, I was actually just going to speak because people were talking about the defamation of calling people anti-Semite.
The ADL actually did call me an anti-Semite.
I just wanted to say, you know, there's been three Israelis that have spoken here.
They all say they don't see a problem with what I've said.
I've communicated with them in personal messages.
Anti-Semitism to me is hating someone on the basis of their immutable characteristic of being Jewish.
I don't hate anyone.
I actually have published sub-sacs that have been republished by the UNS Review.
I've had Ron Ones on my channel.
He's a Jewish person of great respect for him.
So this is just a label that's used to shut down descent.
I mean, there was multiple hit pieces on me today.
declaring me an anti-Semite sort of blaming me for this whole thing,
saying I was a self-declared anti-Semite, which was like a perfect example of this,
because they were based on off what was essentially a joke that I was talking about
how easily this label is thrown around, and people were even saying,
Ben Shapiro was making people anti-Semitic, and, you know, I joked that,
oh, Ben Shapiro videos made me anti-Semitic.
So now that's the hit piece is, oh, Elon is supporting a campaign that's supported by a self-declared anti-Semite.
So that's an example of how meaningless this term is.
Another example is that the ADL said it was anti-Semitic that Donald Trump made a speech
where he talked about warmongers, communists and globalists.
And they said that those terms evoked anti-Semitic hate.
They also said it was anti-Semitic to criticize George Soros in any context,
even context that didn't mention his Jewish identity.
So yeah, they are driving anti-Semitism.
It's a Jewish organization.
They've expanded this term of, hey, it's so broadly that you can't criticize them in any context.
And that's how it's being used to shut down this about Bandy ADL as well.
Because this was an organic uprising of X users that have seen how fair this has gone.
I mean, there was a lot of talk about First Amendment and Section 230 in American law and so on.
You have to remember the ADL interferes in countries outside the US as well.
You know, you may have noticed I don't sound American.
I'm Irish. I was banned off Twitter for a year and a half until Elon Musk took over.
I never violated terms of service. I never said anything hateful.
But that's the way things had gone. And that interferes in the democratic process across Europe.
The ADL has also interfered in Iceland's democratic process off of social media, where Iceland was going to ban circumcision.
And the ADL sent them a threatening letter saying that they would work to crash their tourism business using their Jewish connections in the United States if Iceland went ahead with that policy.
So that's clearly interfering with the democratic process.
I mean, the things that the ADL declares hateful, like the kind of things I believe in,
are majority of you and our lives.
Keith, Keith, Keith, I want to go back to the way.
You've made some very good points, probably the next topic to discuss.
But I want to focus on, again, anyone in the audience that can answer this question.
Please DM me at the team.
I just want to say as well, guys.
I might have to drop out.
Oh, good.
Keith, you probably want to stay.
You're probably going to stay.
Probably, yeah, all good, but you probably want to stay on because, Sully, do you want to pin what you've just sent me?
That's the part where, where is it, the part where Keith would, so that's you, so where you exposed Vivian.
So that clip will be pinned at the top in a bit.
Sully found someone that tweeted it out.
Anyone that wants to listen to it.
That was from the previous space, but that crashed.
Let me just say one thing.
So anyone in the...
Ben Shapiro also labeled me anti-Semitic and had you removed from one of his speeches about five years.
So let me go back to the question that I was asking.
Anyone in the audience I can answer that question, please DM me and the team will see your DM and potentially invite you up.
Just tell me why, et cetera, why you think you can answer that question.
But I want to know the other side of the argument.
Yeah.
And Ben, I want you to make it again very briefly, because I missed what you said earlier, is what are the positive things out of the ADL?
What are the arguments they make?
What are the backers saying?
What good in their mind?
What good does the ADL bring to society?
Ben, I'd love you to take this one.
And anyone else?
It would have, maybe you can go second.
Well.
You can play devil's advocate.
Even me playing devil's advocate, it's not going to come across as very sincere.
I think that probably, what they're probably thinking in the back of their minds is this.
It is better to be in control of certain things to control a narrative to protect your people.
I honestly believe that is what their bottom line is, right?
But the problem is, and I'm not talking about second, third, fourth generation North American Jewish people.
I'm talking about...
you know people who actually live in the Jewish homeland and so hard that are from there they do more
clearly to promote in my mind the anti-semitism by flexing their muscle like look what they're doing
the Elon right i mean this guy keith i've gone through his twitter feed i followed him for a few days i
haven't seen anything that in my mind back to that so that essentially what it is is they think
they're protecting the jewish community in what they're doing
Well, I think that's what their excuse is.
I don't necessarily think that's what the true motivation is.
I truly believe that their motivation is to influence a government.
I mean, I just have to be very much.
Influence in what way?
Right?
Influence what influence who gets elected to Congress, who does not get elected to Congress?
So as it becomes, as it started, would it be a fair statement to say it started and had noble intentions?
And then this is, it goes back to the whole concept when we started, when we debated censorship.
That's the conclusion I've always said.
That's the stance I've always had.
Censorship itself, yeah, so censorship is not in itself a bad thing.
There are some things that do need to censor.
But as soon as you centralized censorship, it goes too far.
We've covered this during the Twitter files, et cetera.
But some things obviously need to be censored.
You know, no one's to see gory videos or child pornography or any of that.
So in this case, Ben, the question to use, did it have noble intentions of censoring anti-Semitism or racism in general or defamation, any defamatory content?
And then they become corrupt and then it became more about power rather than the mission statement they initially had.
Well, I'm not a historian, right, but what I can say is this, so back when it was founded, right, there's nothing new about tribalism, right?
So look at that time in American history, you had Italians, predominantly Italians stick with Italians, or the Irish stick with the Irish, you had the Jews stick with the Jews.
So, look, they were good at organizing, and they probably, this is just an opinion, right?
Right.
yeah they probably found that look we're good at this and we're starting exhort you know we have some power over things why not use it to benefit what we view is our cause and our people and and and that's fine just let me let me say follow him before going back now because just because i'm trying to get the other side because it's been very difficult so let me go let me go to yeah i'll go to follow him after us but what i want to go to you and following my next question is how much power do they have you and chief and
and again how much impact can they have on x that'll be the next question i have for you guys but
on that same question maybe you could give us to get shed some light on maybe the other side of
the the argument that i'm trying to get
Absolutely. So, like, I'm not a fan of ADL for the reasons obvious as a conservative,
but I will say they have done amazing stuff during the war on terrorism.
They uncovered quite a lot about martyrdom culture in Gulf Arab textbooks.
They have spoken against the persecution of minority Christians, minority Jews, minority Hindus in the Middle East and in subcontinent.
You know, Mr. Foxman, who I don't agree with for a lot of things, I'm going to give some credit.
He was instrumental in developing a lot of the technologies that monitored in real time some of the hateful rhetoric coming from Al-Qaeda.
and, you know, L.E.T. and JEM.
And whatever intelligence that was found, I mean, it did go some way in helping counter future attacks on the United States, the United Kingdom, and in many parts of the world.
And they've worked with the Tony Blair, one of the Tony Blair Institutes on this subject matter.
And this is a well-documented thing. So, I mean, the ADL does...
do some good work, that should, you know, the credit is due for them there.
And just the, at this, on that particular point of it, I'll let you provide the evidence
on that particular, you are critical of the ADL.
By the way, silly, there's nothing, like, I just want to take that.
Nothing is too binary.
You can't say they're not in a bunch of evil people.
Like, if you go meet them, I don't know the information.
I haven't gone there.
But I wouldn't be surprised if their leaders are potentially corrupt.
They,
They're influenced by power and they're no longer sticking to their mission statement.
They're probably abusing their power.
But it doesn't mean they couldn't have done zero good things whatsoever.
They're not a bunch of evil people like, how?
How can we do bad things today?
So, but I'll let you answer because I don't have the knowledge of being able to offer evidence.
I said.
Well, I just bring to the Tony, I bring to attention the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change, September 2021 edition, Peace and Tolerance.
Tony Blair, the guy who literally is considered a war criminal in many nations, the guy who basically was the reason for the illegal invasion of Iraq.
That's your evidence.
If anything, you're basically providing a subject.
Excuse me.
I'm not a defender of Tony Blair, and I didn't.
support the Iraq war. I mean, I'm not defending that. I'm just simply giving one example,
devil's argument example of where the EDL did some good contributions. And I'm listening here.
Can you let him finish? So he's trying to give, can you let him finish? If you're going to,
if we finally had someone, hold on, you had someone, he'll look to talk. I finally managed to get
someone that can give us the other side, one person that,
doesn't even agree with the idea, it's critical of the idea, to give us the other
side, so we have a discussion and all you do is keep interrupting him and disagreeing with him.
I don't agree with him, but at least let's try to hear it, so we don't have them leave like everyone else.
No, but he needs, yeah, by the same time, there's a, there's a...
Well, he would provide the evidence, you know, keep it, listen to the recording,
I keep interrupting him as he's trying to give him the evidence.
Yeah, honorable members.
I just like to tell you what it is.
Peace and tolerance education in the Arab world, two decades after 9-11.
September 2021, David Andrew Weinberg, this one report that the EDL produced.
Very solid report.
I would encourage you to read it.
I would also encourage you to read about the ADL's Hezbollah Education Project June 2020,
where they document the radicalization of youths and how they are being groomed to become martyrs and suicide bombers.
And look, I'm just saying...
I understand the Middle East, there's a lot of things that are going on.
And I don't want to be perceived as some guy who defends everything that goes on.
But there has to be some credit given to the ADL for some of the work they did.
And I say that as somebody that does not appreciate how viciously the ADL has gone after,
a conservative activist, taking away their bank accounts,
But if there's some good, I will point out to it.
And just to point out, just before you continue, hold on, I've got,
guys, guys, before you want to point out a couple of things.
So I'm looking at WhatsApp's profile.
He is in his profile.
He's being critical of the ADL.
So he's saying this is awful and exploits people's fears.
No public service has done as a result.
He's being, he's very concerned about, he's referring to one of Max Blumenthal's tweets about the ADL.
And I've got another one here.
here. Yeah, he's another one here. You do realize the idea will call you racist anyway, right?
He's just wanting to Elon. He says he's retweeted my tweet about the ADL, the X files, the ADL files, this is the new Twitter files.
So this is coming from someone who's, you know, obviously openly pretty critical of the ADL.
Doesn't mean what he's saying is right, but it's just, it's important to point that out.
But what someone wanted to say before Sully responds,
I got two.
I got two.
Hold on.
Whoever was speaking now.
Who said I've got two?
Whoever said I've got two, please.
I got two, Lucas.
I got two, Lucas.
Lucas.
So one time Abe Foxman told the Haredi Jews in Israel to stop spitting on the Christians.
So let's give them credit for that.
Because a lot of times in Israel you'll see these super heretic, I don't know what, heredi, one of them.
They will literally spit.
Yeah, they'll spit on Christians.
And Abe said, please stop doing it.
Not a good look.
Another time was when Rabbi Oyotos Yosef Ovaria,
I think a Sephardic Jewish head at rabbi,
he said that the Goyim, us Gentiles are beasts made in human form
to serve the Jews, and the Adios said that was divisive and not nice.
Those are two times.
I'll give credit to the ADL for actually doing something.
So question, then we go back to Utsv,
since you just came on the stage.
Utsv, so obviously you are critical of the ADL.
You pointed out some good things they've done.
So what do you think went wrong?
Obviously, Sully and others would disagree
with even some of the good things they've done
and they believe they've never done anything good.
But my question to you is like,
what went wrong?
Where did they go wrong then?
If they've done some good things,
Has it happened over time?
Has it happened under the new CEO?
I don't know when he started,
when he became CEO,
as Tucker Carlson said,
that the new CEO is really,
you know,
kind of negatively impacting Eddie.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. I think under Mr. Greenblatt, if that's his surname, if I got that correct, you know, he's taken a much more partisan lens. I find it very fascinating that, you know, he used to talk about how the, how the, as of battalion, was this very disgusting, you know, vicious, anti-Jewish, anti-Slav group.
And then, you know, when this Russia war started, the ADL has completely back flipped on Azov Battalion,
and they're actually soft peddling and doing, I don't know, some kind of promotion.
They brought them to Israel.
They brought the Azov Battalion to Israel.
The ADL brought the Azov Battalion to Israel, to Madhava.
That's horrible, and I condemn that 100%.
And I feel like, you know, as soon as this foreign policy...
condemn a lot of things unless it's against Arab Spanish.
Oh, sorry, can I just jump in here.
Uptov, I just want to say, right?
I love Arabs.
So yeah, no, that's fine.
I'll show you.
Let's see.
But let me, let me just make one point.
Sorry, to the man, can I, I don't know if you can hear.
I seem to, sorry, I seem to be, I see to be, hold,
Kili, Sully and Sali, I'll let you speak,
I seem to be the only person trying to be as, as, as, as, as, as,
as ballast as possible here.
But go ahead.
So, Kales, I'll let you speak, and Sally.
Not really.
Yeah, that's probably because he's the only person that has a different take.
He's also critical of the ADL.
You completely forgot about balance in this space.
So he's not really got a different...
So if you understand, if you understood his point, he's literally not different.
He only made one...
His whole thread, his whole tweet is against the ADL.
Public...
Exactly, so he's not different than Izzy.
So what is he different?
No, he's giving different types of it, which I thought you got, I know what he's going to...
No, he's not.
So basically, let me summarize his point.
Geron Kalii.
That's what, ADL are good because they basically call Arabs suicide bombers.
That's basically his argument.
No, no, I did not.
Hold on, hold on, hold on, what he said?
Hold on, sorry, sorry.
He said, he talked about a Hezbollah education program documenting the radicalization of youth
and how they're being grouped to become martyrs.
I don't know, how did you, how did you change it to?
Arabs?
Yeah, sure, but I didn't.
What did you, were it as?
Okay, brilliant.
So, do you find it surprising that basically the ADL would be calling...
and do you i'm not saying with the right or wrong but i'm saying do we find it surprising that the
adl an organization that spouts and claims anti-semitism at the minus of things is going to claim
that people they don't like are basically so i'll let you i'll let you respond to that point
and also maybe expand yeah so i answer this point and also elaborate on the peace and toleration
in the arab world report and i know calise wanted to speak right after but i'll let you comment
on both please
Well, the ADL, again, I'm not defending the ADL.
I do not defend these attacks on all Arabs and all Muslims.
I do not.
I do not never have.
But I'm just pointing out, I'm playing devil's advocate for this conversation because it's fascinating.
The ADL and their reports...
specifically when after Hezbollah, Hamas, Lashkari Taiba, the J.E.M, they specifically say these groups are grooming children.
They specifically mention how certain governments in Kuwait, in their education, in their textbooks, have...
maligned Christian doctrine and have said things that are very wildly exaggerated.
So let's have, okay, that's enough, that's enough, that's enough.
Let me ask you a question, right?
So this is ADL that is actually infiltrating all social media organizations.
You heard BZ on here and Ariel talk about the power and influence they have within
the American legislature, within the American government Congress,
how they literally lauded over all of these massive corporations.
And you want to pick out some random reports by David Weinberg,
who is the, I believe he's the Washington Director of Internal Affairs
and say, we have to advocate for that being good work.
And then you quote, Tony Blair.
The whole thing in the Middle East started with Tony Blair.
Okay. Remember, he plagiarized, I don't know if you know this or not, but he plagiarized a 45-minute claim from a student. This is obviously documented very well. And on the basis of that 45-minute claim, we went and killed a million people and you take something from his institute and say, this is the good work that the ADL have done? Like, seriously, is that your evidence? All right. I find this kind of ridiculous. Do respect simply because...
It's a loaded question, first of all.
It is simply...
It's a difficult question.
Can we let him ask?
Please let him answer.
Please, go ahead of so.
Okay.
There's a lot of presumptions in this question.
I mean, do you deny that there's a long history of...
Islamist extremism in some governments in the Middle East.
Do you deny that that...
And in India there is as well.
We have the RASIS in here, right?
I would...
I think this is a good debate for a different space
when it comes to the Arab world,
and I know it's also a very difficult discussion to have.
But I want to go back to another question I'll ask if...
I mean, it was interesting.
Yeah, I was going to ask, I'm not sure if that's relevant to the next question I have, though.
Actually, what's up?
I want to ask you one other question.
Is there anything positive that the ADL has done that's not related to the Arab world,
but you can mention any of those before I go to my next question, if you can think of any?
Yeah.
Yeah.
The ADL is a century old.
This was never about censorship.
No, no, I want, OSTAP, to answer this question, please, following.
Oster, answer the Maori's question, please.
I mean...
They were trying to censor the trial.
Are you on crack, bro?
Holy fuck.
Wait, can I happen, or could the...
Ustab, where, where?
Let Ustab answer the question.
Ustab, on the mute mic, answer the Mario's point.
Yeah, well, has the Eidiel done anything good in the United States?
Is that the question?
I know, no, no, so is there anything positive?
I can ask my question for yourself.
And again, can you please try to treat Ustsstab in a way
so he remains on stage so we can have a discussion?
That'll be nice.
So, Utss.
So, if you don't mind answering my question...
It's a lame discussion to you.
I'm glad you find it lame.
But, Witsav, if you don't mind, is there anything positive?
And the reason I'm asking this question is mainly for Suli.
Because my question is more about the imp,
how much power does the ADL have
and how much impact can they have on X and Trudeau?
That will be the next pivot I'll have.
And I want to start with Chief on that question.
But the question I have to use, anything positive,
and maybe Fiji can add onto this,
anything positive that the ADL has,
because I'm genuinely curious,
because it's hard to believe that this organization
has done nothing but bad since 1912.
I'm sure there's some good things,
but obviously they're doing more bad things now.
Again, going back to Tucker's quote,
they've been, I'm gonna paraphrase here,
but they've done good things for the past few years
and until the recent CEO, things have gone,
they've gone more bad.
I'll try to find a tweet and read it out again,
which have any particular examples that are not related to the Arab world?
Yeah, sure, sure.
I mean, they have spoken...
Um...
On the defense of some African Americans who have been persecuted by members of the Ku Klux Klan,
they have definitely spoken in the defense of African Americans who have been targets of some,
I hate to use the phrase, quote unquote, white supremacist groups.
I mean, I guess that's something, you know, to take under consideration.
And I think that is admirable that they would speak out on it.
you know it's not like they do everything you know horrible but I do have some real
strong criticisms of the idea what's your criticism what's you're getting a lot of heat
for playing for thankfully playing devil's advocates so we can have a balanced discussion
yes but what is you can I give an example I do want to go to Otsav and T's and Fidtie
yeah but let's have if you tell us what is your criticism of the ADL I want to give
you the chance to tell us what your concerns are
My chief criticism of the EDL is that they're, I believe, uniquely anti-American.
In our great country, we really believe in freedom of speech.
We really believe in freedom of dissent.
And that means tolerating everything that we do not like in this country.
And I'm talking about nonviolent, peaceful, political speech legally protected by our First Amendment.
And the EDL constructs their arguments and narratives in such a way that, you know, people are no longer people, but the other.
And I find that reprehensible.
And I don't like how they have went after.
Yes, politically incorrect, peaceful mainstream conservatives
who have done nothing wrong other than fall under the wrong side of the issue,
whether it's on LGBT issues, whether it's on the trans issues.
And they just malign these people, go after their good character.
And I don't think that is right. I don't think that's fair.
And I'm not really sure what that has to do with anti-fitting.
My question is, what do you think their intentions are then if they are doing these things?
It just goes against their mission statement.
Why are they doing it?
Is it just the ability to have power, to have influence?
I truly believe that there is a strong, small,
L liberal element in the ADL, and that has happened throughout the years.
I mean, you have a lot of ex-Obama people that are working for the ADL,
so they bring their politics with them.
And I think that has a certain influence over the organization.
You know, after Foxman left the group, it's gotten much more liberal.
And so I guess that's part of the reason why their shift has gone towards these conservative groups.
Fidji, I want to go to you before going to Chief.
Chief, I know you've been waiting very patiently.
But Fiji, you know, you've heard the discussion on we went back,
but we went back and forth and mainly between Sulein Ustav.
But I want to go to you, man.
You've been there since...
No, really.
Sorry, yeah, not just you, Kilesi, and following jumped in for a bit.
No, really, maybe.
What?
Okay, can we continue discussion?
So, Fiji, I want to go back to you.
Just a discussion we've had so far.
Your stance after you've heard everything.
Is it still the same?
Has it changed?
Do you think the ADL should be allowed to exist and have that much influence?
And do you actually think they've done more good than bad or vice versa?
How much do you know about the ADL, Fiji?
I know a decent amount. I've probably done a lot less research than many of the people in here.
I can answer kind of endemically a couple of the statements that have been made.
The question of whether they should have more power,
and I was trying to speak before, obviously, Elon, cut the space closed because you didn't want to hear my opinion.
Okay.
That was supposed to be a joke, but okay.
What is this?
Did more good than bad.
Every institution makes mistakes.
Do I think currently that what they're doing is bad?
No, I think they're doing what they're allowed to do,
what they are entitled to do.
And if you don't like it, I agree with pushing back.
Do I think that they push the envelope and do I disagree with a lot of things they do?
Absolutely.
They don't share my views on LGBTQ plus.
They don't share my views on liberal social perspectives.
I don't like the idea of censoring.
The word censoring is a wrong word.
Impacting balanced speech.
I think that all speech should be protected unless it's obviously...
hate speech to the degree where it's not protected constitutionally or otherwise harmful. I do think
that the biggest problem in my opinion of this whole ADL movement and I'd be very interested to see if
Elon, Elon, there is zero, there is, I will take any bet on the face of the planet right now,
there is a zero percent chance that Elon wins a defamation law, a defamation lawsuit. I'd be very
surprised if he followed it, except for his own hubris, which has shown him in the past to do things
that are not necessarily completely logical. I do think this is a bad hill for him to die on. I'm
I'm interested, dramatically interested in why he's choosing now.
I haven't heard a catalyst as to, it's not like the ADL is doing these things now and they weren't doing it before.
So I'm super interested in why now.
And from a business perspective, if I were his counsel and Elon is...
besides for the richest man in the world or one of,
he's an incredibly brilliant man
and incredibly tempered at the end of the day.
I'm not sure this is the smartest move for him to be doing,
which is essentially riling up the public
to help him fight his war for a defamation lawsuit
that he knows he'll never win,
but will create enough turmoil
potentially get the ADL to back off.
But isn't that what's needed?
Like don't we need someone to stand up for the ADL
and what they've done?
Like the amount of
Like the ability to cancel someone
or impact a social media platform to that level.
I know you might talk as capitalism,
it's a private company,
they have the right to do that.
But that's...
That's just too much, man.
No, no, listen, I can see both sides.
I genuinely, genuinely can see both sides.
Do I think it's good that speech is hampered?
As someone earlier was trying to separate between free speech
and constitutional free speech, I get it.
Do I think it's a good net positive?
Do I think that the ADL's missions across the board is a net positive for Jews
and for society as a whole?
Yes.
Do I think that there's unnecessary fodder along the way?
Yes.
Yes.
Who's the...
If you're a natural question?
Who's the unnecessary for the digital conduit?
Unfortunately, sometimes large actions can't be taken with surgical precision.
I'm so tired of people telling me what's good for me.
I'm so tired of this.
I'm sorry.
I have to interject you.
I'm just going to back up what the supporter said earlier of the ADL.
Historically, the ADL was never about censorship.
That's not what it was about.
It was about fighting genuine anti-Semitism, which was...
Rather prevalent in this country when it was found in 1910, it was rather prevalent even 40 years later.
There's been a lot of anti-Semitism in this country.
And fortunately, today, it is completely a different world than it was a century ago.
There is a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of anti-Semitism today compared to what there was.
And it's ginned up and made worse by anti-Semitism.
entities like the ADL.
So at a certain time and place, was the ADL a necessary and positive institution?
Yes.
Are they funded beyond the wazoo?
Because every Jew growing up is taught.
You support the ADL.
They stand for us.
Yes.
And Jews, you can come up with whatever reasons you want.
And frankly, Jordan Peterson says it's because they're the cult, they happen to be.
sufficiently intelligent and have a culture which inspires them to succeed and work their tails off to make a lot of money.
And in this country, thank God, any culture which embraces that, whether it's Chinese or Indians,
and I'm not talking to Native Americans, I mean actual Indians or Jews, and you embrace that culture, you're going to be successful.
So Jews have been financially very successful here.
And historically, for the last century, every Jewish family...
grew up knowing, yeah, you support the ADL. Unfortunately, under over the last 20 years,
since racism has, has fortunately been in grave decline, where there is such a tiny amount of
racism today compared to what we used to have, the ADL still retains great resources of wealth
because they are supported by wealthy Jews.
And they have basically been reluctant to dial back their mission statement.
Rather, instead, it's been co-opted and turned into something which, for my money, as a practicing Orthodox Jew,
there is no entity out there which embarrasses me more, makes me feel as if it generates much, much harsher anti-Semitism in the world than the ADL.
Because they basically will take a guy like Kanye who does say some pretty stupid and borderline anti-Semitic things.
and basically proves every claim that he makes some some really outlandish claims and makes him
seem completely true by silencing him they do this over and over again because they don't care
about jews they certainly don't care about jewish religion that's for sure they don't care
about jewish people all they care about is their own power and unfortunately as a culture
because it's so ingrained in jews for generations to keep giving money to the adl
If you're not really monitoring what they're doing on a day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-year basis,
you just keep cutting the check.
So they know that they are supported by coffers, which they don't have to worry that those coffers are going to run out anytime soon.
So as a Jew, I don't want to hear about what they do today in censoring people is ultimately good for Jews.
I don't care if you're a crazy rabid anti-Semite.
You hate Jews.
You're someone who thinks that every Jew is evil, scum, demons spawn, whatever you think they are.
Go ahead.
I want you to have complete free speech to go say whatever you want.
I don't want you dampen by anyone.
This is America.
This is a country where free speech, thank God.
Thank God is allowed to flow because that is the only way you can actually have legitimate
freedom. And I don't care of someone saying terrible things about me because I'm Jewish.
And to me, racism, whether it's about Jews or sexism about women or racism against blacks or any
culture, it's only racism if it's targeting an individual on the basis of their genetics.
So like George Soros, no one's targeting because he's a Jew, they're targeting him because
he's a slime ball who's trying to control the world and has very evil designs about concentrating
power of the elitist. That has nothing to do with anti-Semitism, but
He's like the ADL will twist any attack onto him as to be like,
oh, you're going after him because he's Jewish.
And that is the sort of thing which creates far greater anti-Semitism.
It makes actual people who don't really know Jews, hate people like me.
And it turns my stomach, and I wish Jonathan Greblan would just go away and never hear from him again.
Fidja, I think following made a really, really good and an emotional point.
Fidia and that V to respond.
And I agree.
I agree, and by the way, case in fucking point, right?
And one of my statements earlier was what I hate of this entire argument,
which I do, I do land on Elon Musk.
I do not think that he handled this the correct way.
I do not think that he is handling it the correct way.
And I think that doesn't absolve the ADL of what they've done.
How should he have handled it?
Wait.
Now continue, but just how would he have handled it?
I think that is.
No problem.
Drop the ADL files first.
Don't foment.
Don't foment anger and irrationality.
And people saying the ADL is funded by the government.
There's been so much nonsense that I've been seeing that had he started with the facts,
instead of his pejorative statements and his conclusive statements,
which leaves tons of gaps for everybody else to spin up and fill the void.
Because I think falling would agree.
We may not like what the ADL has done or is doing, and I agree it leads to more anti-Semitism.
I do agree, but it's not wrong.
What they're doing is not wrong.
How he should have handled it.
You've said what he shouldn't have done.
What should he have done?
He should have released the ADL files.
Sure.
Fidgetle, let me ask the question.
Wait, wait.
So I've been reading a lot about this, right?
And I'm one of the people who actually expressed concern months ago
that the ADL were involved in this advisory board.
So let's just go back to the drawing board and say, okay, Elon's under...
extreme amount of pressure, okay?
He's got a very close,
Jonathan Greenblatt has got a very close working relationship
with Attorney General Merrick Garland.
Now, Garland, and they've worked together, by the way,
in the past, I don't know if you know this or not,
but PayPal kind of kneeled
because the Attorney General, the Attorney General,
Merrick Garland had said that law enforcement
will need help of private tech companies
such as PayPal, um, to counter extremist groups.
That's what they called it.
And PayPal kneeled and said, fine.
You know what?
You know, this is why people get cancelled off PayPal.
This was led by the ADL.
So recently what's happened now, okay, and I've read articles on this.
And let's just assume there is some truth in this.
The Merrick Garland has worked with ADL and what they've done is they've decided to bring some.
This is what these articles are saying.
This is not what I'm saying.
Kind of cases against, and I'll quote it for you actually.
Just give me one second.
This is a meeting that they've just had.
Lindy after last week.
Right. So let me finish for everybody else. You may know this, but others don't. So this article says, though Musk has criticized ADL in the past, this meeting between Linda Yakarino and Jonathan Greenblatt just so happened to come only days after Attorney General Merrick Garland, a close associate of Greenblatt. And this is true, by the way, Fidgetil, because I've looked it up.
I mean, General Merrick Garland has actually spoken at ADL events, and, you know, their kind of cooperation goes way back.
And he was endorsed by ADL to become the Attorney General as well.
So let's park that.
But anyway, it says the close associate of Greenback sued Elon Musk's SpaceX for hiring Americans over refugees and asylum.
The Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday that Garland's DOJ and Gary Jensler at the SEC and are both working together on another lawsuit against Musk's company Tesla.
And then I'm not going to read the whole article, but it says this appears to be a clear-cut pressure campaign with Garland, Jensler and Greenblatt working together to bring Musk to...
to heal. Now, when I read that, and then I read Elon Musk's tweets, I'm thinking, okay,
there is something going on here. Elon Musk is pushing back. So to go back to Suleiman's question,
you've said what he shouldn't have done. What should he have done if this is the case?
So that makes, that actually makes sense. That answers a question that I made a moment ago,
which was, why now, right? Assuming that the ADL has made pressure beforehand,
and this is ongoing, which is the insinuation by everybody, and makes sense, right?
Why now? And that does make sense. So he the inference, which is logically fairly sound without evidence that the ADL is pressuring Elon through lawsuits against Tesla.
So what is it do you think that they're not getting that Elon's not doing currently that they wanted him to do with that pressure? I'm actually asking the question.
No, so I'm asking you, because you made the statement that Elon shouldn't have handled it this way.
So, Salomon said to you, how should he have handled it?
So I'm asking you, how should you have handled it based on what you think is going on?
I've shared with you what I think is going on based on your opinions.
How should you have handled it?
You probably should have just dropped receipts like you did with the Twitter files.
Exactly, I think you're kind of turning in circles.
Because the point, the whole reason the whole thing started for was because...
We had Linda, the CEO of X, meet with the CEO of the ADL.
And, of course, Greenblatt said that at a frank and product conversation,
which is what spurred on Keith to start the hashtag ban the ADL and put the holding
forwards.
And people were tweeted and liked it and loved it.
And there was over 100,000 people posted about it.
And then Elon responded after the fact.
So because of a grassroots campaign, that's why Elon responded, because he saw all of us
retweeting and liking and tagging Elon to ban the ADL.
That's the orange story.
But before that,
there was points made that were just not even, like,
true in terms of the foundation saying it's finding for good things.
Again, looking at founding from Unz.
Revised historical facts, the primary documentation about it, who himself is a Jew, and said that the ADL, again, was in foundation because it was defending Leo Frank, who was, again, a child, you know, a child murderer, rapist, Leo Frank. That's what it was. He was found guilty of that by the jury appears. All the appeals went through and still found guilty, and he got a, um, a, uh,
post-humorous pardon because they couldn't protect him from a amount of people that came to kill him, basically.
Not because he was innocent.
So the whole foundation of it was completely screwed up.
And to point to a couple of points about the old ADL condemned this or did that, that's like, like, thinking is for holding the door, but not for like killing someone or whatever.
It's just disproportionate.
So the ADL is indicted.
been, you know, a very bad group.
You will historical founding,
we'll get a contact.
I mean, Chief, you're in.
That's a terrible argument.
And just to, just to add to that in terms of, like, the funding,
we've gone through it.
I mean, it's semantics.
I don't get why we're repeating it.
It's semantics.
They've not got direct funding,
but they've basically provided funding to their shells of the different organizations.
But let me go to.
We can even make that statement because I just want to ask a question, though.
Can I ask one serious question?
I think everyone wants to know.
Yeah, just one second.
Just three very quick points.
When they give full transparency of their funding,
complete transparency of the network of organizations that they propagate and promote
and where that funding comes from,
then we could make hard, solid statements about their funding,
but I don't have that transparency.
And Chief...
Quickly, to come to your two points that you just made, right?
When you say, you know, about human rights and stuff,
somebody on this platform was talking about Middle East and things like that.
You know, human rights, you know,
if you're going to talk about the good work that ADL have done,
if you're going to say that and propagate that,
that they've done some good work on human rights in some areas,
then you can't kind of support RSS and then talk about some extremism in the Middle East
because it's just completely contradictory.
It's propaganda. It's just nonsense.
I just think, you know, if I heard, I think somebody said, Elon should drop the receipts.
he did it on Twitter files.
When he did it on Twitter files,
Twitter files had occurred under a previous regime.
He had nothing to lose.
He wasn't going to take Jack Dorsey to court.
But in this situation, Elon Musk is not a child.
He's not stupid enough to drop the receipts here right now.
In the event, he may be considering legal action.
He's dealing with the ADL.
It's not some little toy shop company up the road.
It's a billion-dollar organization.
So he's not going to drop the receipts for us.
He's not going to compromise himself.
So I think that's just ludicrous to say that.
Let me go to...
Just before you do, I just want to go to V.
V, what's your thoughts on the discussion up to now?
So I honestly just want to kind of pose a question here.
Before I even reveal my own thoughts on the ADL as an institution,
do you think it would be strange?
Humor me if...
There was a kind of Muslim or a Catholic or any kind of other Abrahamic denomination of NGO, aside from Jewish, who had their own kind of equivalent of an ADO.
Would you think it was strange if they had influence over, say, the head rabbi of Rome or the
head rabbi of New York, if they had influence over who they got to honor and who they didn't,
right?
This very small kind of organization that supposedly doesn't have a lot of net worth.
So I'm going to kind of put something in perspective for you that might blow your mind over
a kind of overwhelming influence that the ADL, that suppose it's small, this.
This small organization, this lobbying organization, has over the Roman Catholic Church, which is supposedly one of the biggest religious organizations on Earth.
They sent a letter.
This, I think, was back in 2004.
And I'll just give you one over multiple examples.
And tell me if you think this is kind of logical if the shoe was on the other foot.
We have a individual...
Anne Catherine Emrick, who is this kind of Catholic mystic, and she was in the process of being kind of the process of canonization, right, becoming a saint.
And she was on a clear path until on June 7th, 2004, and you can find this on the ADL's website, right?
They did an open letter to the Catholic Church.
I can quote it for you.
This is from their ADL website.
The Anti-Defamation League has written to high-level Catholic church officials in Rome,
the United States and Germany, to express great distress over the Vatican's plan to beatify
in 19th century, stigmatic none whose visions, as recounted in literature of the period,
have fermented hatred in anti-Semitism in her name.
Okay, there's no evidence for that.
The reason why, and again to continue this open letter from the ADL,
the ADL said the beatification of Anne Catherine Emmerich,
would cause serious harm to Jewish-Christian relations,
especially in the aftermath, and he has a key point,
of Mel Gibson's film, The Passion of the Christ,
because these individuals were so angry about Mel Gibson's film,
and Mel Gibson said he was inspired by the writings of his Catholic mystic and Catholic Emmerich,
that they made this open letter, that this had to be anti-Semitic.
And single-handedly because of this,
and you'll find many high-level people in Rome will admit this.
The reason this woman is not a saint is because of this single kind of pushing in of the ADL.
Another example, if you'll give me a moment.
I promise I'll be very quick.
St. Simon of Trent, an Italian martyr in Northern Italy in the 16th century.
Now, he was killed, most likely, by a group of Jews, and that's fine.
I mean, there's martyrs for everything.
There's Catholic martyrs who were killed by Muslims, right?
There's the Catholic martyrs of Otranto, thousands who are killed by Muslims, and that was fine.
Muslim groups aren't complaining about their martyrdom.
Muslim groups aren't going to complain and say, oh, the Catholic Church can't have the martyrs of Otranto because they were killed by Muslims.
Muslims are a coach, that's fine. That's no skin off my back. You're celebrating your own martyrs, right?
Because Muslims aren't going to start a fight about something like that. They don't think they have control over another religious entity.
However, the ADL back in Vatican 2 in the 20th century put tremendous pressure for the Catholic Church to make it.
So the only Catholic martyr who was killed by a group of Jews could no longer have they had their cult suppressed.
Now, that's interesting.
That's the second instance of this small supposed organization having tremendous influence over supposedly one of the biggest churches on Earth.
Again, to reiterate, you will never, ever find a Muslim organization complaining that.
about the martyrs of Otronto, the Italian Catholic martyrs who were killed by Muslims because we all had our contentions in the past.
You'll never find a single imam complaining about this.
You'll never sign a single imam, Sunni or Shia or whatever, ever trying to get the martyrs of O'Tronto taken off the list of saints.
And yet, that's exactly what the ADL, single-handedly, the small organization did for Simon of Trent, what they did for the process of Catherine of Emmerich.
Now, let's look and think, why is this?
Why does this supposed small organization have this tremendous amount of power over supposedly one of the biggest Christian, one of the biggest religious denominations on Earth?
That's my piece.
Fidji, I'd love your take on this particular point.
Then we'll go to Sam. Sam, you could jump in right after Fiji.
I don't have a factual basis to counter what he's saying.
I think anybody's using the origins as somehow patently painting the entirety of the ADL is in a nice way, a stupid argument or not an honest argument.
To say that they've never done anything good, it inherently depends on what you consider good and for who.
They've certainly done lots of good.
They've certainly done things that...
that they are good or bad or or i'm sorry bad or wrong um i do think that they're overreaching
currently and i don't think it's in the best benefit of jews in general to be honest with you
i still think that elin didn't handle this correctly uh i think he knows that i think he's also
open pan tors box and it's going to be unlike most of the things that i watch elan do this is
going to be a really really hard uh road for him to navigate properly i wish him luck
I don't think it's going to affect the lawsuits that are coming at him from at SpaceX and such.
I don't think it'll actually do anything with regards to how they impact...
content on X unless and if and when he publishes the information,
regardless of it to his detriment.
In a lawsuit, discovery gets all information anyhow.
So I'm not his lawyer, but I would say dump it if he wants to get the upper hand,
which is continuing to get the people.
Yeah, so I do want to, look, I want to mention one thing here.
And again, for anyone that can give us the other side of the argument,
please do come up and just DM me.
Because I know some people are messaging is just a bit critical, but if you're critical of the space or the space is, in your opinion, too biased, then you could, I appreciate the criticism, but you could help by coming up and helping balance it.
I do want to read the website.
So I was going through the ADL's website.
It just sounds like their mission is just such a beautiful mission.
It's hard to disagree with.
And then the question is.
Are they doing bad things and disguising it as this mission?
Or did they really intend to have that mission and eventually kind of veered off the wrong way?
And let me read out the mission.
It says at ADL, we work towards a world characterized by justice and respect for all people.
And free of all forms of discrimination.
That's on their what we do page.
Our work for more than 100 years recognize that there can be no safety or justice for all
if any vulnerable group is targeted by hate and discrimination.
Our efforts to combat discrimination embraces all individuals and groups that face bias and inequity.
We make an impact by raising awareness through education,
advocating for change in the legislative and legal arenas,
and speaking out in the press, social media, and other influential forms
against discriminatory practices.
So it just sounds like their ethos is great,
but obviously their implementation is either disingenuous or flawed.
And I'm not sure whether that's recent or it's always been that.
I want to get just kind of a...
Mario, I'd like to address that directly what you just said.
What, what,
Yeah. So about this, whether are they genuine or are they disingenuous? Listen, they, you just heard, everybody just heard Mario Reid how they fight for, you know, equity and, and, you know, racial equality and justice and all these things. Okay, but that's what they say, right? But let's look at something here. Let's look at a really good example. If you look at their board of directors and their senior leadership and staff, that's 51 people.
It's 51 people on their board of directors and senior leadership and staff listed online.
There is not a single black person out of those 51 people, not a single one.
So they say, they preach, oh, racial equality, equity, diversity is their strength.
You can go find tweets where they're always saying diversity is our strength.
And we stood next to Martin Luther King, this and that.
That's what they say.
But let's look at what they do.
They don't have a single black voice on their board or senior leadership staff out of 51 people, not a single one.
That is diversity for thee, not for me.
That is disingenuous.
Do they really believe it?
I submit...
how can you believe such an organization that doesn't even, you know, this is an organization
that preaches the left-wing ideology of representation, that there has to be representation,
yet they don't have any representation from the black community in their organization.
And I'll tell you, they only have two people that even look nominally Asian.
They have one person that looks to be of Indian descent and perhaps one of Chinese descent
out of 51 people.
So I find that to be utterly disingenuous.
Meanwhile, they're very anti-white.
Somebody was speaking earlier,
it might have been Lucas or Keith talked about, you know,
the Boer example in South Africa.
And then we had another Israeli gentleman on here earlier.
He was talking about how,
you know,
I forgot my point that I just had a brain fart.
But the point is, is they're veryently anti-white.
Oh, I remember he said that they're out there, you're crying wolf.
The Israeli gentleman said the ADL is out there,
crying wolf, anti-Semitism here,
anti-Semitism there, anti-Semitism everywhere.
Right.
And it's really, it's really ginning things up.
And if you look at their feed, if you look at what they talk about, they're constantly railing on white supremacy and white racism and white bigotry and white hate symbols.
You know, there's 17 numbers between the numbers zero to 100 that they have labeled as hate speech.
You know, they just...
they're very anti-white, they're very anti-Christian.
Meanwhile, they preach diversity, equity, inclusion, but they don't practice it themselves.
So I just wanted to address that, Mark, since you read from their own mission statement,
that's what they say.
But if we look at what they do, they don't practice.
Let me see Emily on stage, and then we'll get the final thoughts from Doc Phenom, Chief,
and then we'll have Kilesi, Fiji, and Sully wrap up the show.
But Emily, I would love your take.
I know you're on stage earlier.
I appreciate you coming on.
Don't know what your stance is.
So I'm genuinely curious on this, Emily.
Yeah, so I don't know if anyone in the space knows me.
I don't know if there are any Jews in this room,
but I speak a lot about anti-Semitism,
and I try to take it a step further and even bring Israel into the question,
which I know this is not about,
but a lot of the times I do public speaking,
combating anti-Semitism.
And funnily enough, I join this room because I have spoken for ADL
at events as a freelancer, if you want to call it, just, you know, because we see eye to eye on some issues,
and I feel like it's important to speak up in times of anti-Semitism.
However, I think V brought up this point, which I agreed initially and then disagreed.
He said, is there an Islamic group? Is there a Christian group that's similar to ADL?
And the answer is no.
And what I like about that is, you know, no one elected anyone to speak on behalf of the Jewish people.
There's no governing body, and I don't think there should be because, you know, a lot of the times we don't disagree.
Like, how do you classify who's going to be in charge of the Jewish people on a global stage?
Right.
So with that being said, ADL has called things anti-Semitic that I didn't think were.
But on the other hand, I've called things anti-Semitic that ADL didn't think was.
And we just simply don't see eye to eye as human beings on every subject.
So to have one organization that comes out that claims to be speaking on behalf of the Jewish people rather than just serving as a lobbyist group causes issues today, which we see how Elon Musk is now suing ADL.
And now, in my opinion, please correct me if you disagree.
Okay.
it's turning into a little bit of a Jewish war now.
And that's happening because people are now saying,
oh, the Jews cried wolf, the Jews, the Jews, the Jews.
And that's frightening me because ADL is not the Jews.
And I like their initiative.
I understand they want to combat anti-Semitism.
And you know, everyone's saying, well, they're not doing it the right way.
But now this can't be the Jewish people's fault.
And I don't know.
If you haven't seen it, go look through Elon's comments.
This is becoming now an anti-Semitic case because of the lawsuit.
Now, I don't blame Elon for coming out publicly because ADL bashes him publicly.
But now this is insinuating more hate for the Jews.
And it's like, I feel like I'm facing the consequences of a conflict.
between Jonathan Greenblah and Elon Musk.
So we need to separate ourselves a little bit
from the two people involved.
And first things first, you know,
maybe the public slander should stop.
It's child's play.
You know, you could like Jonathan,
you can not like him personally.
I think he's a great guy.
Doesn't mean we agree on everything, but this can't become now an excuse to build a narrative that's us versus them.
And I just want to keep people mindful of that.
Now, if I said anything that you disagree with and you're on the stage.
Yeah, I've got a couple of questions.
Yeah, Emily, I've got, let me, hold on, Lucas, two seconds.
Real quick, if I could, because I was mentioned.
You will, you could as well, because you were mentioned.
Yeah, you will, you right after me.
So, I mean, just, it's just a good question.
So, so, um,
I think you've made a lot of interesting points.
And one of the points you made is that the ADL fights for a lot of things that you agree with,
somethings you disagree with,
somethings they disagree that you fight for as well.
But my question to you is having the influence they have,
and I think we had a speaker in the previous space earlier today that crashed,
having the influence I have, having an office within the FBI,
having the ability to send a letter to the Catholic Church and to the Vatican.
For a personal...
That's true.
That's unnecessary.
And that's like a government position that no one voted for you to be at.
Okay.
V, go ahead.
Exactly.
Oh, V, V.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I don't want to be not...
Like, I don't want to cut you off.
But one thing, I really liked what you said.
It's like you don't like how they're speaking on each other's behalf.
And you use some old tropes like, you know, like being a martyr and stuff.
And I think what you did...
was speak on your own behalf, like you said, oh, nobody wants to get rid of, um, no,
Emily, to be fair, you're, undo that.
You're completely misrepresenting what I said.
I wasn't making the point that there was no equivalent.
There was no Catholic or Muslim or Christian equivalent to the ADL.
That wasn't my point of contention.
My point of contention is there's no body, there is no kind of NGO or there's no kind of organization, period, right?
either in the Muslim or Christian sphere, that has the power to, through an open letter,
influence, influence the policy, the dogma of a different religion.
There is no Islamic, there is no imam, there's no Islamic organization that is the power
to influence what the Catholic Church does, what they say, who they kind of elevate to sainthood,
There's no Muslim Imam who has the power to do that with the grand rabbi of New York.
Just as there's no Catholic organization on Earth that has the power to do an open letter and decide who, say, any Islamic organization decides as one of their martyrs, is one of their martyrs in general.
Only the ADL.
The ADL with a single, with a single open letter, stop, the canonization.
elevation to sainthood of multiple Catholic saints over this kind of implied collective sword over the neck of, oh, if you do this, yeah, things aren't going to good.
One thing you and Emily said, I'm generally because I was surprised by that one.
There's no organization for any other religious or ethnic group that has that amount of influence.
So whose fault is that that they are influencing people?
If I'm an influencer on Instagram, I know this is a much smaller example.
And people are listening to me, but I'm not forcing them per se, but I'm, you know, being an influencer and it's actually working.
But, Emily, you're not an influencer on social media isn't like powered by NGO.
For example, you say blame the consumer.
They're not forced to listen to them.
Emily, I respect it.
You are not forcing, as Elon Musk said, he's losing.
He's losing billions of dollars of ad revenue.
Because for some reason, let's say how strange this is, how out of the ordinary,
through traditional means, if we think about this as just a consumer,
a consumer-producer relationship, how strange it is that this one organization
that supposedly doesn't have a lot of money can, by the flick of a finger,
by a single syllable habit that they lose billions of dollars of ad revenue.
These giant corporations are too scare to advertise themselves on X.
Probably the biggest social media out there.
I've never seen Elon that vocal about an issue.
So it just shows that.
Go ahead, Chief.
Yeah, there's a lot of points here to be made.
By Emily saying that she's an influencer, it's not equivalent to the sheer power that the ADL has.
I know.
I said it was a smaller example.
My point is you can't force people to believe in what you're saying.
You're saying, oh, they have so much influence, but it's a choice to.
act upon
you know what I'm saying
terrible analogy like I was hoping
someone would jump in and destroy it
like give an example of a social
media
I've been trying to jump in for everyone
to give an example of a social
media involvement who can impact
other people and that's the same as somebody
who has the power
I think you guys are missing my point
to destroy an entire
social media application
so what's your point?
what's your point Emily what's your point
what's your point sorry?
It's the most terrible example
of that is this
I understand it wasn't, of course, the same caliber.
My point is they can lobby, they can speak.
That's their First Amendment right to do so.
But no one's forcing them.
You're like, oh, they're a lobbyist group, so it's different.
Lobbyist groups can fail, you know.
No one's forcing them to be heard.
No one's forcing people to act upon ADL's opinions.
That's a choice.
And that's why the ADL is a different.
I'll see you guys.
I know I'll just want to say, because it's two seconds.
I'll let you finish your sentence.
Emily, they've got a question on it.
So can you finish off?
Sorry.
Yeah, so on that question, on that question, but so the...
But I think the reason that a lot of people disagree with this,
everyone just jumped in, is that there's a difference between being able to have a position
and tell people about your position, they decide whether to act on it or not.
So for example, if you go to Twitter, if you go to Elon and say, hey, I disagree with
this, this, this and that, and this is why I disagree.
That's one way of doing it, but then there's a very different thing to go in and start,
I disagree with this, this and that act on it.
Then Elon doesn't act on it.
So I say, I don't agree with it.
I respect that you disagree, but I'm not going to go with this.
It goes against my values.
But then going around and leveraging their influence and then forcing a bleeding Twitter out of money by convincing or forcing advertisers not to advertise on Twitter is a bit different than just not.
Mario, can I interrupt you?
Maybe because I'm just not up to date.
Has it actually been proven that's single-handedly that's ADL's fault?
Or do you think the politics?
Yes.
Political views have to do.
Absolutely not.
So, yeah, so there's different things on this, Emily.
Kalesa, maybe I'll let you summarize it because it hasn't been proven in court, but it's...
Look, yeah, the thing is, look, this is, this is about, you're talking about lobbying groups as though this is just a normal organization that goes around lobbying and expresses its opinion.
This is an organization that trains FBI agents.
And this is...
This is on... Sorry, Chief, go ahead.
No, I was saying, because I was answering...
I got to jump in here, so seriously.
Go ahead. I was trying to answer.
This is a mafia that has done criminal activity.
This is not in a group that's like, oh, we don't like you.
So they've literally engaged in espionage.
And I know a lot of people, Emily, I've seen you on the Jew function.
I was on there, too.
You should go watch my episode because I know you're afraid of what's happening.
And I told Leo and Seth, this kind of stuff's going to happen unless...
The Jewish community cleans up house.
That was my whole message.
I've been reaching out Olive Branch.
So check out my episode in the Jukefunction.
I know you're on there.
Anyway, so that's just a side note.
This is a mafia that is engaged in criminal activity,
have given gangsters like Mo Dallet's awards.
Okay?
These people have leaked.
You want to talk about the only help the left wing.
No, no, no.
When the ADL spies on Palestinian Americans,
they leak that information to the Israelis.
That's helping them.
That's not helping the left-ling George Soros.
When they talk about the annexion or if the Israelis kill some children,
will the Israelis have a right to protect themselves?
That's not helping the left-wing Soros people.
All right.
They boycott, they say BDS is racist and anti-Semitic.
That doesn't help George Soros.
That helps the Israelis.
That's right-wing.
So there's a little bit of disingenuous arguments here.
The ADL is, I think, a Mossad front.
That's my opinion.
I can't prove it.
But their activity is no different than a mafia.
They've done illegal.
And again, when the anti-Semitism isn't there, a lot of Jews here have agreed, they go too far.
They literally make it, right?
I have a video I post.
I didn't disagree.
I never said they don't cross down.
I'm not saying you disagree at all.
I'm not even talking about what you said.
I'm just promoting the, I'm saying the facts.
That even I posted a rabbi talk about it in the nest.
I'll post the guy who said how the ADL operates creating neo-Nazi rallies.
Right? This guy, I forgot, Levi Mordecai, he was an ADL agent doing that.
What kind of Jewish person is going to create a Nazi rally?
And then, well, that's because the ADL's grifting Jews.
So what, see, I'm not here. I don't hate anyone.
I'm telling Jewish people, hey, you're getting grifted.
And I think a lot of Jews are seeing this.
And it's going too far and it's getting dangerous.
So now as Emily here is afraid, like, well, wait a minute.
Now they're labeling Jewish people as, you see what I mean?
So this, again, it's not just some regular group that just, you know, like BDS or something or some other group like this.
This is a mafia that has power that they can make a phone call to your boss and fire you.
Just because you said something on Facebook.
Just because you said something on YouTube.
Just because you said something on X or Instagram.
They could make a phone call.
They could destroy Elon's life.
They could take away his whole freaking X.
They can call Tesla.
This is not normal.
Everyone's like, oh, it's just an organization.
No, it's not.
Right.
They have ties to the Israelis.
They have ties to everyone.
They have ties to the government.
They've even talked about it.
During COVID, listen to this.
During COVID, when we were all starving, losing our jobs, they demanded a release.
So let's go back.
So, Lucas, I want to go back to the question.
Emily, I think Lucas is indirectly asked the question as well.
Is that did they, and Kalisa, I might need your help on this one.
So Emily, you asked, do we have proof that they've actually impacted Twitter as Elon says they have?
Yeah.
There's a lot of, there's no proof, so there's no, I want to say proof that's been verified by court that hasn't gone to court.
But, Calisi, you've got some good examples to show that it's highly likely.
Wait, wait, wait.
So ban the ADL hashtag was started on Twitter.
And the following day,
a spokesperson from ADL gave this statement.
Okay.
So remember,
there are people from all walks of life,
Emily,
that are using the hashtag.
We've had three or four,
Jewish people on this platform this evening and you weren't here earlier saying look we're Jewish one of them was actually living in Israel and he said I think what the ADL are doing is really wrong and they call the ADL out okay so this is the ADL statement to this hashtag ADL is unsurprised yet undeterred that anti-Semites white supremacists
conspiracy theorists and other trolls have launched a coordinated attack on our organization.
And then it goes on, okay, about, you know, the fact that they're still going to
advertise.
I think you made some, you've read, you've used some quotes earlier that showed that
the, the ADL is impacting advertisers trying to convince advertise not to advertise on
I think it was you, Colise or someone else.
Wait, may I mean.
Yeah, it was me.
And he did say that.
And I'll find you to you again.
And I know there's a few hands up.
I do want to get granted, you know, we are going to wrap up soon.
Yeah, go ahead.
Yes, Mario, I'm going to hop down.
So I'm going to give someone else a platform.
But I do just want to say...
that I think people, and this is what I started saying, I don't agree that a religious group should
have an unappointed leader to speak on their behalf, which I feel like that's what it has become.
And personally, being more conservatively, politically, it's, you know, it's obviously clashed.
And, you know, I feel like the Jewish people are branded as a whole when it comes to the ADL.
And, you know, my feed right now is a little bit of proof by all the anti-Semitic DMs I'm getting and like,
like Hitler should have done better DMs I'm getting is a little bit of proof because you guys disagree with Jonathan Greenblatt.
So before I hop down, I just want to be, you know, this is a big room.
I want people to be mindful.
Please do not misunderstand.
ADL is not a, it was not a vote.
to determine who belongs to speak on our behalf.
Okay, no one did that, and a lot of people disagree.
So let's not, you know, categorize Jews by one organization that, you know,
tends to piss people off.
I agree.
I completely believe.
agree with that this isn't about religion and we've said that time and again it's just about
I don't care if this was a Muslim or any other organization it's about the power that any
organization have let me just and Emily and Emily stay on stage we are going to wrap up
soon so it'll be good to you know maybe you can have a final word at the end because
you've been you've articulated your points really well it led to really balance discussion
so I really enjoyed it go ahead Kiliuzee
Yeah, I just want to read this quote to you.
So it says this is from Jonathan Greenblatt, and it says, if Linda Yaccarino wants to attract Fortune 500 advertisers and Enoll Musk wants to create a genuine public square, it might be wise, and this is his suggestion, not to give this obvious anti-semit, such a huge megaphone.
Let Tucker and his ilk push their hate somewhere else.
And before that, he says, Tucker scared major advertisers of Fox prime time for years.
He traded in conspiracies.
He appealed to cranks now this at a time when anti-Semitism is surging in America and around the world.
So he calls it out time and again.
But you know, the thing is you can have an opinion as an organization, Emily, and you're right.
But this.
This organization is completely penetrated into American politics across all organizations.
I said earlier the train FBI agents.
You know, they've called, whether you agree with what happened on J6 or not,
this organization's called it domestic terrorism.
There's a tweet here from Jonathan Greenblatt, quote,
calling out Elon Mask in quite a not, a very polite way for allowing Trump back on the platform.
So since October, this has happened again and again and again.
And this is what this standoff about.
So that kind of answers your question.
I do want to also point out, Emily, and, you know, I'm trying to try and really hard to balance out the discussion here.
And even Tucker, so Kalisa, you mentioned Tucker Carlson and how the ADL is trying to cancel him.
He has said...
the ADL was such a noble organization that had a very specific goal,
which was defined anti-Semitism.
That's a virtual school.
So, you know,
that's why I really wanted to dig into that side of it as well.
But, Emily,
the most important you made,
and I want to get Grant's thoughts before I have Phenom Doc.
and everyone else wrap up the show.
But, and I do want to point out something,
we are talking here about nothing to do with about any,
any, any, any, any, any, any, any, any, any, any, any, any, any, any, any, any,
an organization.
We're talking about, really, we're talking about one organization and the topic of
centralizing the power of censorship.
And I've said this many times, it's not as sexy.
Whenever I tweet about it, never gets a lot of engagement about how centralizing,
uh, power when it comes to censorship.
is dangerous, never gets a lot of engagement.
It doesn't sound sexy.
I talked about it, about the Twitter on the Twitter file spaces,
it doesn't get much attention.
But then we're seeing it in action here with the ADL,
just centralizing too much power when it comes to censorship, you know,
corruption, a power leads corruption and that's what we're seeing in my opinion.
But I've tried really hard to kind of dig into the history of the ADL and I apologize
for ignorance, everyone I was learning here with everyone else.
I tried to dig into the history of it.
What are some of the good things they've done?
Because I struggle to see anyone or any organization, any person, anything at all, is
completely good or completely bad.
Nothing is really that black and white.
And when someone tries to simplify it as such...
I think it's just very unfair.
So I tried to really dig into the history of it
and try to understand the different layers
and when might have turned
from more good to more bad.
It's the best way to articulate it.
But Grant, I'm not sure how much you know
about the ADL, so it'll be good,
you're a regular on the show.
Be good to get your thoughts
as we slowly wrap up.
Thanks for having me back, Mario. It's been too long.
I mean, first, I have a very unique perspective, both as someone who's been actively censored by the government and someone who's a Jewish person who has experienced extreme anti-Semitism in my life.
whether as an adult in business or as a young man and really a child going to school,
having my school and place of worship desecrated by people who painted Nazis on it and said all sorts of horrible things.
And the ADL exists because of the Holocaust, because of the propaganda that drove the murder of 6 million Jews in Europe during World War II.
So, I mean, it's a very serious organization with a very serious purpose.
And, you know, I'm not going to say whether, you know, someone is upset about the politics of what they've said or not is right or wrong.
But their mission is dead serious.
And it's because of what's called the tolerance of power.
the paradox of tolerance, which is that if you have completely unlimited tolerance,
then eventually the intolerant will crowd out and destroy the tolerant.
But in this case, the ADL is not a censor, and the ADL doesn't practice censorship
because it's not a government agency. And I'll give you an example of censorship.
I got hit with a gag order, a very unconstitutional gag order, by a judge just this past week.
And I've spent the whole last four or five days conferencing with my lawyers, discussing with other lawyers, figuring out how to respond to all of this.
And that's government censorship.
They are suppressing a photograph I took.
of a supposedly undercover police officer who engaged with me as a police officer in public.
That's government censorship.
What the ADL is talking about is simply a fact that advertisers don't want to be seen along those who are practicing overt or covert or...
let's call it repackaged and sold over anti-Semitism.
And what I mean by that is that there are a lot of anti-Semitic tropes that get laundered and repackaged and turned anew.
One of my favorites of the last several years, as an example, not that I like anti-Semitism or anything like that, obviously.
But one of my favorite examples is the lizard people conspiracy theory, which is an offshoot of an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that I had never heard of before.
And that was one of the big Q&ON conspiracies.
A lot of these conspiracy theories have their roots in anti-Semitism.
So, I mean, it's, you know, insidious disinformation, propaganda.
And that's what the ADL stands up as a civil society group to combat by using their First Amendment rights.
So you've got a First Amendment right to say things.
Well, they've got a First Amendment right to say things, too.
And everything you read to me in that statement is just a statement of fact.
that Tucker Carlson destroyed the advertising base for his show,
that he caused advertiser boycotts of Fox.
You know, he dragged naked anti-Semitism onto the airwaves there.
He did it for years.
You know, giving an unfettered right of free speech,
tolerating everything eventually will crowd out the tolerant.
And this platform, Elon Musk, who owns it now, has to decide.
Does he want to have a platform that invites tolerant people to have discussions, sometimes big disagreements?
Or does he want to give a platform strictly for the intolerant?
Something like Gab.
Gab is successful according to the parameters of its owners.
but I don't think it's much of a town square.
I happen, Rick, there's a lot points you made that were just not even true.
I mean, the foundation, the ADL was gone in 1913, not World War II.
So you're an era about that was completely...
No, but that's what it does now. That's what it does now.
The second point...
That's its mission now, yes.
The second point is the definition that ADL does not engage in censorship.
The ACL you define censorship as the suppression of words, images, ideas,
that are offensive and they can be updone by government as well as private pressure group right so we're talking you're saying things that are just and the funny part about that volunteers that you
that, even experts
memment, there's a heckler's veto,
which means,
if you look at Heckler's veto up
in constitutionally,
hecklers are not allowed
to be in private venue.
They need to be kicked out.
Got to Hekler's veto.
And Supreme Court
actually sides against
hecklers many times over.
It's very much constitutional expert.
I did a documentation research
before this space.
So I'm right about the Hekler's veto.
Because they are essentially,
if someone heckles you in a private setting,
which you own,
you are able to kick them out.
That's the heckler's veto.
That's what it's called.
So in general, ADL here on this platform is basically demanding that Elon does certain things.
And I have evidence that's brought before.
The ADL was set, and again, in a specific statement for the no hate for profit, that they were lobbying and they got a bunch of advertisers to hold their financial ventures into Twitter until they addressed hate on the platform.
So they do engage with advertisers who directly go and not do business with Twitter.
So that was the point that someone else made that they weren't doing.
They are doing that.
They had done that in 2022.
So the points that you were making were just not.
entirely accurate there. The ADL sensors people 100%. They go out with people financially.
The IDEO and undercover video admitted that they go after people for GoFundMe's or
Stripe, I caught Clifton published a couple weeks or so ago. They work with the FBI.
They put their propaganda in schools that talk about LGBT and there being multiple genders
at a bare minimum. They have lots of documentation about structural racism being for white supremacy
and all of that.
and they go and call whiteness an issue in their own document so this is a group that's gone
through the lens to attack groups of people
Not to mention, of course, they spied on anti-Israel activists in 1990s and got found guilty of that.
Well, they settled it after they were found by the FBI had over 705% of their documents from two agents of theirs to be illegal in their parameters.
So all the things you just said were just completely inaccurate.
The ADL has done many reprehensible things.
Their founding wasn't related to the World War II or anything.
And I just disagree with the idea that the ADL should have any, this power over Elon Musk's web platform that he acquired.
It's his platform.
He should have the right to do what he wants to do.
And to say that they're not in the censorship to users or other companies is beyond crazy.
They are 100% doing that.
I have evidence.
I have pointed it out many times throughout this space, as well as Lucas and other people.
I mean, he could do whatever he wants, but he's going to suffer the consequences.
That's freedom of speech.
There's no freedom from consequences attached to it.
but isn't that isn't that the the trope that if you go against the jews your life is ruined i mean
where are the where the catholics and the muslims and i wouldn't i would keep it yes i'd move
away from jews just going against like anything that the adel stands for anything that i'm
sticking to the idea even that even that nobody can
yeah no no not not because no one can say it because i don't want to i don't want to think if you go
i just like yeah i'll give you the mic so i don't want to conflate i think if you go against any
i don't as as as you know i'm going to give you the mic sorry i just wanted to come just uh so
what i said this lucas and i'll give phina on the mic she'll be trying to jump in for a bit
just because i don't want to conflate the adl with
with anything that's Jewish.
So I think the ADL, what they stand for,
a lot of people that are Jewish,
came on stage and disagreed with them.
So that's why I pointed that up.
But Phelam, go ahead,
and then Grant, I'll let you respond to Lucas
and anything else that Phelam says.
Okay.
Thanks, Mario.
So just a quick point, it's absolutely not true that advertisers are afraid of being near content,
such as lizard conspiracy theories.
If you've spent any time in advertising or ad buying, it's these agencies and it's the associations
of the global agencies like GARM, like WFA, that put tremendous amount of pressure on the
advertising departments inside these companies.
These companies, if they wanted to really follow what the...
what the constituents want, what the people wanted,
just plainly look at Tucker Carlson's viewership
compared to many others.
So it's definitely the minority,
but the loud, very well funded by many NGOs,
minority that is putting this pressure on.
But the average company is not at all wanting to even participate in this.
And I can tell you that for sure.
It's a big bane because they get all kinds of...
you know, messages from buyers, like what happens with Target, for instance, or with the beer company,
you know, Budweiser. So this is the pressure that's being put on the advertisers just inside the
departments, not the company. So they are using a tremendous amount of global pressure,
and they even publicly say that they're using global initiatives to start national movements to change local
buying habits and local narratives.
So it is part of a whole geopolitical national security state that comes back to exactly this.
And Mike Benz's organization has studied it the deepest and the best.
It comes back to foreign policy one.
They don't want people to have, you know, any dissent about the United States doing, you know,
funding to other countries.
So they want to make sure that there's no dissent of that and dissent for what's happening with Russia.
Their, a pause came to the situation with the war with Donald Trump.
So the censorship really tightened up when Elon bought Twitter and all of the things that had been censored, COVID, the war, and
And the elections, they were worried that was going to come back up, that people would be able to speak freely.
And so they immediately put pressure NAACP, ADL, and other organizations with GARM and the WFA said,
we will have these companies boycott you if you re-platform these conservatives and if you re-platform Donald Trump and if you open up the civic...
discourse moderation policies on Twitter.
And now, just real quickly in all land,
is that now we're coming back to,
they did put him back on.
ADL has wanted Tucker Carlson gone.
You can just search their account very plainly.
They've wanted him banned permanently.
They've called for it many times.
Now he's the loudest voice on Twitter,
and we have another election coming up
where Donald Trump is the runaway leader,
and that is why the pressure is on.
Thank you.
Grant?
Yeah, so for starters, the loudest voice on Twitter is named Elon Musk.
And I'm just going to read you a variety story.
This is from May 8, 2023.
After Tucker Carlson exits Fox News, advertisers start to return to 8 p.m. slot.
And then I'm going to just scroll down here.
This is from Jeff Collins, the executive vice president of ad sales at Fox News Media.
We have had over 40 new advertisers come into the hour since we launched the new program,
including some of the largest in the country and really across all the categories.
That's actually fascinating because we've talked about it when Tucker was let go from Fox.
So you're saying advertisers came back to Tucker's segment after Tucker left.
Did the advertiser revenue go up since Tucker?
Same or less, do you know?
Oh, wow, really?
Yes, of course.
It's up.
Yes.
No, that's a high-law.
The Mario.
That means a point.
Go ahead.
A time slot.
Sorry, Doc, what's that?
Yeah, guys.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, I agree for you know.
The advertisers might have returned.
The advertisers might have returned.
But the radio is fascinating.
Yeah, but it's fascinating.
And key demographics, too.
But you know what?
I'm going to tell you something as a publisher.
As a publisher, if you have more advertisers and fewer viewers, you can still make more money.
Okay?
I mean, a higher rate of return.
No, their goal is to reach more people because they want to influence the politics of the day.
No, this is not...
Well, yes, they are a partisan network with a political goal.
But I'm telling you right now.
But it's fascinating to see...
Look, they're making more money without Tucker Carlson.
That's only because those companies that were forbidden from advertising.
No, it's not only because anybody is forbidden.
I mean, this is a conspiracy theory itself.
You skewed a long...
I listened.
I'm a head of argument.
I listen to your conspiracy theory, okay?
Don't I get a chance to talk now?
I just read a little tiny excerpt from a variety story.
Yeah, of course, because those companies are now,
they don't hear Tucker telling another side of the story anymore,
and that is exactly what the WFA and Garland wants.
You know what?
Tucker is telling a very...
You know, he's telling a side of the story that advertisers don't want.
It doesn't matter if it's popular or not.
Advertisers don't want to be associated with that.
What do you mean?
Of course it matters.
Of course it matters.
I mean, Grant, I know you remember a heyday when it's like, it counts like yours were fully juiced.
But Elon's trying to make it more, you know, even.
Yeah.
Well, none of that made sense.
I mean, I'm sorry, maybe it's the...
Yeah, so just going back to the...
Maybe it's the...
I mean, correct.
This is not complicated.
It really isn't.
It's not complicated.
It's not complicated.
In business, people reward competence.
and they reward intelligence
and they take away
from incompetence
they take away rewards
from hatred
from falsity
falsity tends to cause corporations
to be upset
so guys guys
hold on
Doc Doc you've been waiting patiently
go ahead Doc
and then we will have
Utsov Chief V. Grant
and just wrap it up
and they'll have
I'll let you finish up, yeah, Grant, I'll let you finish up and have Doc respond.
The article.
Yeah, I mean, look, you know, corporations make these choices because of relationships
and the relationships they want to build.
It's not just about the other part of it where you think, well, it's popular, so they've got
to get along with it.
I've never heard of an advertiser go along with the idea that they have to do something
because something is popular.
They're looking to build relationships with an audience.
And they're looking to build relationships with an audience.
That's all that they want.
But now with these organizations, political corruption, they're not able to do that anymore.
And so they want to reach the broadest audience possible.
And so please don't pretend like you don't know what it's talking about because then we can't all have intelligent discourse.
So, Doc, it's actually, excuse me, again, I can't finish what I'm saying.
But I'm just going to try one more time.
All right. Corporations reward truth. They reward competence. They punish the other things.
And unfortunately, when your television program is all about making up lies to influence people into feeling hatred over things that are not happening, which is a lot of what Tucker Carlson's show is about.
All of a sudden, you're not going to get those kind of advertisers.
And what Elon Musk has done with Twitter has not been a whole lot better, unfortunately.
And now he's promoting Tucker Carlson.
I mean, there's an audience for this, but it's not the mass market audience.
It's going to spend premium dollars on advertising.
Okay, I think we got it.
Can I just respond, please?
Thank you.
Sure.
Look, my opinion, you know, I like what.
My opinion, what do I know?
It sounds like you're...
Guys, please, can we have a doctor's response?
It sounds like you're being paid.
It sounds like you're being paid to attack Tucker Carlson.
I don't know why you keep coming back to him in particular when we're talking about a much larger issue.
Well, you guys mentioned him very specifically in the discussion here.
Well, no.
So let me talk.
I stopped interrupting you.
So, you know, I've been given the mic.
So please.
I just want to say, as to the original issue in the start of the space, that I think that Elon can prevail on a defamation lawsuit against the ADL.
And I can spell that out.
But basically, it's was there a lie?
Yeah.
And the lie here that Elon is asserting that he's been labeled as an anti-Semitic to corporations and advertisers in an effort to get them to cancel contracts.
I would assume based on a morals clause.
I'm going to have to not look at the screen because someone gets flashing these emojis at me.
And it's very disruptive.
So it's a lie.
Then we publish to others, which is another element of defamation.
We know that that was republished to others and we could assume that because Elon said it heard from advertisers that that was the reason why they were withdrawing their ad placements on Twitter.
As far as we need damages, right? It doesn't need to be $22 billion. It could be $1. That's the only thing you need to prove to prove damages.
And the most complicated part is, is it a lie, right?
And that's where part of the fight will be.
Is Elon truly anti-Semitic?
And there's going to be a lot of dirt thrown around about that.
And the other thing is because Elon's a public figure that malice has to be proven as to the state of mind of the ADL.
And I do think there's an argument we made that malice can be proven.
by some of the public statements that the ADL themselves have made
and through some of the videos, one that I remember,
Kalisi played early in the space.
There's also a report.
I'm going to do a tweet about it after the space,
but there's a whole report the team is working on.
There's a report that stated that documented a spike in anti-Semitism
following his takeover in October and has found that many of the reinstated accounts
spread anti-Semitism or incite their followers to harassment.
That was an ADL report about Twitter, which...
you know, maybe Musk could use that as a form of damages.
But go ahead, Doc.
Yeah, I think damages are easily proven here because for advertisers to pull their planned advertisements.
I mean, we all, not all of us, but some of us buy advertisements.
And I think anyone who's monetized here knows that's an option.
So he can tell when that turns on and turns off.
And if he's talking to the advertising and they're telling them, hey, look, I can't be associated with you because, you know, people are saying you're an anti-Semite.
Then that republishes and proves the lie, which is one of the elements of defamation, is it has to be a lie told to a third party.
And then every time thereafter it's republished, that also constitutes damages.
So Elon's threat, as well, I want to mention this, Elon's threat to release all the ADL's requests DM's communications to the public would be a gold mine for anyone who tried to prove damages against or to prove that.
the request of the ADL, de-platform them,
and de-monit, in effect, demonetized or debank them.
That would be a goldmine.
That's a huge threat to the ADL,
and short of, of course, litigation.
Well, reasonable minds, you know, resolve this.
I think this is going to go on for a while.
I think this is going to find...
Let me go to Uttesav, Grant.
I know you want to respond, Al Gorey,
and I've muted you because when you unmute,
there's a lot of feedback sounds.
That's why I mute you.
It's not to be disrespectful, Grant.
Utsinav, I'd love to get your thoughts on what Doc just...
just said and in the meantime for the audience,
I'll just, I'll just,
Dian Sully, see if he's up for it
to do a subspace after this
because we usually do subspace
when there's a very heated discussion,
especially when me and Sully disagree so much,
so maybe we'll do a subspace after this.
So if you're a subscriber on mind,
we'll set up a sub space
and me and Sully will have a private discussion
unrecorded about how the space went.
Our subs not recorded?
There we go.
Yeah, subscribe spaces don't get,
we don't record them.
Is this better by the way?
I'm sorry.
Did you want to respond quickly
before we go to itself?
Yeah, I think he's going to have an almost impossible task proving defamation.
You know, it's going to cost him a ton of money in litigation.
And, I mean, he could easily lose an anti-slapp judgment if he goes through all that and can't prove his case.
So I think that it's not only a high-risk strategy, but it's a terrible idea, and he's going to hand the power of the court.
to the ADO.
We got a lawyer before going to Oettsav.
We do have another lawyer.
Just came back up on stage Tira.
And just for the record, everyone,
Suleiman agreed to do a subspace.
I think it'll be an extremely heated one
between me and him, because I know he's pretty pissed off.
So we'll do that right after this.
So if you're a subscriber,
so you just click on my account, you can subscribe,
No, I'm not, I'm not pissed off.
I'm just, there's a lot of people trying to cancel me, isn't it?
Alright, we'll do it, leave it, leave it, leave it, leave it, leave it, leave it for the subspace, subspace, subspace, Sully, Sully, Sully, Sully, Sully,
Sully, Sully, Sully, Sully, can you stop it, Sully, can you stop it, Sully?
Sully, please, can you stop it, so we leave for the subspace. Sully, yeah, my ass it is.
Silly, Sully, can you stop?
Elon's got $250 billion to fight this war, dude.
Tira, Tira, Tira, so if you're on the lawsuit one, the defamation lawsuit.
Don't cancel Suleiman.
Sully, just back on the, guys, guys, again, guys, Tira, in a second.
On that point, on the legal case, defamation, so they were going back and forth on how it is to prove.
Fidgillow commented about it in the last space when you were there before it crashed.
want to get your thoughts on how difficult it is or easier to something.
I think it's going to be really hard.
Yes, publication, yes, damages, but you have falsity and you have actual malice.
And those are going to be really difficult.
First of all, I'm not, the fact that the ADL has done a study that showed that hate speech has gone up,
Elon, I think, disputes that.
But I guess what I'm trying to say here is,
unless you could show that they literally lied completely
and did it on purpose to make Elon look like
he was a terrible anti-Semite or something like that,
you're going to really have problems suggesting that...
Whose definition of hate speech that's going to be used there?
What I'm just saying, though, is it's false.
You have to say it's false.
And because he's a public figure, as you pointed out, Doc rightly,
you have to show actual malice.
Now, if you look at Fox,
news that was an interesting case because there they literally had emails from everyone saying we
know it's false we're doing it anyway we're doing it for the ratings etc so if you think that
information is available i'm sorry somebody's mic is open is it doc me let me see it is doc yeah doc please
okay so um if you think that information is there
Sure, maybe he could win, but I don't see any evidence that that type of information is there.
We have nothing suggesting that.
all we have are suggestions that they actually believe this whether it's true or not.
Okay, so my view of this is going to be really, really difficult to make this type of case.
And I'm not sure Elon is even going to try.
I really do think that some of this is this is Elon's fighting back, right?
He's trying to get people riled up about the ADL and what they're doing.
Isn't he objecting really to the simple accusation that he's anti-Semitic?
And that doesn't, you don't, he doesn't have to prove a grander conspiracy if that's his allegation.
You know, first of all, you have to show that they actually said that.
I'm not sure they actually said Elon Musk is an anti-Semite, did they?
Is that an anti-Semite?
I'm just asking.
I believe that he has said that they have accused them of being in a time.
He has said that, but have they said that, Doc?
I mean, like I said.
Well, they say everything.
And if they said it, if they said it, is that an opinion?
And that would probably be an opinion anyway.
I really think that you're misreading how easy these cases are against public officials.
They're really hard.
I didn't believe it.
I'm talking about the law.
Tira.
It is very different.
People are big on that.
So I just muted everyone.
Cicillie, go ahead.
You ask Tiro a question.
Yeah, just a question, Tira.
Are you saying call someone an anti-Sama is an opinion and it's not defamatory?
No, look, what I'm saying, it is very difficult to win a case against a public figure.
No, you said it was an opinion.
Well, look, look, I don't know if they've even said it.
That's a extreme defamation.
The amount you can lose.
Go ahead, Tira.
So just a question.
Like I said, I don't think they actually...
Yeah, we're just finished my point and now you can answer, Tira.
I don't think they've actually said this.
I think...
Elon's opinion is that they are suggesting this, but I don't think they've said this,
so I think he's going to have trouble with this, okay?
And I also think, like, I also, can I just...
Tira, I'll let me finish up.
You go ahead and then let us have in the...
I do want to wrap up.
Elon Musk...
Go out here. Take another 10 minute.
Elon Musk is an incredibly powerful figure in the world.
Forget Twitter.
Let's talk Starlink, SpaceX, Neuroling, all Tesla, all this stuff.
Elon Musk is not necessarily a victim.
Now, he's playing a victim here.
I get that.
But he's a very powerful guy with a lot of tools in his toolbox.
But he's doing it for a good reason.
I don't think we should feel badly.
So guys, guys, so I do want to...
Myron, most people believe this is for a good reason that he's protecting as much as he can,
us having access to the broadest possible range of free speech.
And there's no contest that they are openly trying to cancel people.
And you can disagree or agree on the basis and their principles behind why they try and cancel certain people.
I think there's an economic interest behind it.
I think there's a political interest behind it.
I think there's a religious interest behind it.
But we don't have to go there to prove death.
So, Chief, I'll let you give you a final quick words.
And then I do want Kaleisi and Sully.
So, Kili, I'll give you the, go ahead, Kili.
Sometimes so little bit.
You named all these organizations, right?
Three or four that just very quickly, Elon Musk has.
Two of them are now under investigation as of the last couple of months.
And I read this out earlier.
You weren't here how the DOJ have worked with Jonathan Greenblatt in making this happen.
The second thing I want to say to you is that when you say that there's no way that ADL have actually said this,
when somebody's such a big figure,
and you imply something,
if that has financial consequences,
then that organization that has made the implication
has to be held accountable.
So really, every single person,
one thing that we've all agreed with
is that this whole campaign against ADL
is something that Elon Musk started a few days ago, okay, on X.
And I'm sure you'll agree with that people have said that.
So go ahead.
ADL's response was...
Okay, to the fact that the campaign was started on X.
ADL is unsurprised yet undeterred that anti-Semites, white supremacists,
conspiracy theorist and other trolls have launched a coordinated attack on our organization.
There is a lot there, Tira.
I mean, I don't think we can sit here and say they've never said anything
because we don't know what's been exchanged.
We don't know what's been said.
When it came out against Meta...
There was a lot of emails that came out that showed direct engagement with advertisers between ADL and meta advertisers.
We're not going to see that unless and until it gets to court.
So it's speculation to sit here and say it hasn't happened.
No, no, no, no.
I totally agree that we don't know what the evidence would be, but by the same token, we don't know.
whether there is evidence that would prove that they were both defamatory and malicious, right?
We just don't know is what I'm trying to say.
Let me and by the way, just while we give the speakers just a final quick word,
again, reminded that we will have an unrecorded space.
Me, surely obviously, I'm guessing Kilesi will be there and other speakers could join in as well,
where audience members can come up and we're mainly going to debate how this, uh,
space went and obviously me and Sulu probably have a lot of disagreements in that show so if you want to join it we'll be doing it right after this one it's a very short one it's going to be unrecorded and it's only for subscribers just a quick question you can let us know your thoughts in the comments bottom right corner how do you think the space went how did the last one that crashed would love your thoughts especially for those of you that have been with us for the many hours since we started this space four hours ago
Let me go to Utsav.
Utsav and maybe Sully can get final quick words and then will continue.
Anyone that wants to speak more, just jump into the sub space.
Go have Wutzev.
Yeah, I just want to say for Elon Musk, if he's listening, I read somewhere that he said that, you know, he's not going to ban the EDL because, you know, they haven't done anything illegal.
Right.
So my question to Mr. Mosque is, can he please consider unbanning the scores and scores of conservatives and those on the dissident left and right, can you please consider unbending them because many of them have not committed anything illegal or criminal?
I just want to throw that.
Just kind of final words, Suli.
Okay.
Maybe let's give our speakers very quickly, Grant, Chief, and V, maybe Vee can go first and we'll go to Grant, then, Chief, just very briefly.
Yeah, for my, actually, for my final word here.
Yeah, go ahead.
Look, I...
I'll be brief. Elon Musk is going to lose a defamation lawsuit.
I've seen a lot of public figures sue for similar things,
and it's almost impossible to win these kind of things,
unless there's some sort of non-public information showing that they were just out to get him.
But these reports are certainly...
The ADL just lost a $10.5 million judgment for a defamation in the state of Colorado.
It happens. It happens, but it's...
Yeah, it happened a lot with those guys.
And it may not be... I don't know the circumstances of that case.
But I'll tell you this.
Elon Musk got rid of a company's nerve center for deciding what content to keep on the platform.
It was built up over 14 years.
He should expect that there's going to be problems when he does that.
He did it.
And here we are.
V, go ahead.
Yeah, for my final comment, I actually wanted to respond to something that was said maybe an hour ago.
That was very much bothering me.
And I think the comment actually came from, forgive me if I'm wrong, from Utsav.
Again, tell me if I'm wrong, but were you the one who was saying there was a brief moment where there was an individual on the side defending the ADL?
And they were saying one of the good things the ADL was doing.
is they were clamping down on the extremism of Hezbollah and Hamas
and how they were doing anti-Christian rhetoric.
Forgive me, just let me know, Utsin.
Was that you, or am I getting you wrong?
No, I actually didn't say that. What I said was they exposed in some textbooks anti-Christian commentary, and they were concerned about martyrdom.
Let me just make sure I get this right from the Hezbollah faction is what you were saying.
They did mention that they found that in Hezbollah.
I'm not defending the ADL.
No, I know.
I know.
I'm just making, I was asked to give a contrarian argument.
I'm not attacking you.
I understand that.
And I just want to say that for my own personal experience.
Every single Lebanese Christian that I've met who should be opposed with the Islamic majority, every single Islamic, or sorry, every single Christian Lebanese individuals I've met has considered Hezbollah freedom fighters.
The only reason Lebanon even exists.
Just on that point, on that point, Lebanon is split 50-50.
There's two, they keep clashing.
Some believe, as well as a terrorist organization there against his body.
No, I'm well aware of that.
But I'm saying you're very split.
The point I'm making is you can't generalize the Hezbollah is an anti-Christian organization.
True.
True.
And that was what I think is.
100% because they're allied,
they're allied with Christian.
They're allied with Christian groups.
Exactly.
The point,
the big point I'm getting at,
and the common theme I've been making,
my last comment here,
and I would love to join the after space here,
is that when it comes to,
you cannot do these kind of,
especially in the ADL loves to do this,
trying to make these generalizations
about these different religious organizations,
right?
Especially,
especially anything involving the Near East
The ADL loves to try to set the narrative.
Oh, all Shia and Lebanon are terrorists.
Oh, all Sunni in Syria are terrorists.
Oh, all Christians here are terrorists.
That is how ADL kind of sets the narrative.
You got what I'm saying?
This is what I take issue with.
This is what I take issue with is the fact that the ADL actually has influence over.
different
these kind of religious
hierarchies
and they shouldn't.
Let's go to Chief
and Tyrod and then
Sully will wrap up the show.
Chief?
Yeah, sure.
I'll keep it short.
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, it's be very,
to the audience.
The ADL is a group that has a lot of power.
They're in intelligence.
They're in the FBI.
They're in law enforcement.
They are in schools.
They're in your education, academia.
They are on social media.
They're also pressuring financial companies, banks, stripe, go fund, etc.
This group is not a group that, you know, just, you know, quote, quote, fights hate or whatever.
They have definitions that are very controversial.
They said directly from the ADL, they're not.
They define racism as the modernization and our oppression of people of color based on socially,
counteracted racial hierarchy that privileges white people.
So he specifically signaled a group of people out for that.
They've gone after not just people, but corporations and even countries.
They went after Iceland, actually, for circumstation bans they were proposing and threatened
them saying that they would go and tell.
Meritoris that the implication of that country being a
I'll be actually cool later on
I can do them into our only space but
yeah I got a lot of big people in places
and we should call them out ban the ADL
they don't have no right to be on the platform it's the UN's platform
he has every right to ban them and we have no clue what Ewan knows or what evidence he has
for a lawsuit so we can't opine on that until he brings it to lawsuit
so I wish you on luck you should ban the ADL the ADL
ADA wants to divert us
They should course free all the users that have been banned.
So like Nick Fuentes, Alex Jones, even Toritiaz been.
So, yeah, that's all.
Tira, would love to get your final thoughts before we wrap that.
Wow, that was a lot.
Okay, so just a point about defamation.
Doc mentioned a case that the ADL had lost.
That was in 2000, not recently, but also very big point.
That was against a private...
Not a public figure, private figure. You don't have to prove actual malice in those cases. All you have to prove is that it was negligent. So it's a completely different case. Yes, we don't know the facts here, but Elon Musk is going to have to really show some really facts that we don't, we haven't seen yet in order to win a case like this if he brings it. Thanks.
And Sully, I'll give you the final words.
And right after Sully gives us the final words, everyone.
Not sure if you wanted to add anything,
but we will do a sub-only space where probably I'll have a pretty passionate response
to Silly's final words and we'll have a heated discussion.
So that'll be a sub-only space.
It won't be recorded right after this.
Go ahead, Sully.
Yeah, class. So look, I want to clarify, yeah, when we're talking about the ADL, and we've been quite clear on this space where a number of people have said, I've done other spaces like Laura Luma, there's the nibs of TikTok, there's Ben who came here. This isn't.
about the Jewish community.
This is the ADL who using the power
to basically stifle and put pressure
on anybody who is they want to ban.
And let's be clear, like even against Elon Musk,
his argument, even though if they may or may not
have accused him of anti-Sypillar,
Semitism. He himself said, look, I'm pro-Semites. So he was trying to prove himself to him,
them, on a number of interviews. In reality, they want to censor accounts. They want to censor
for very, very basic reasons. They are entrenched in every aspect of both the US society,
as well as Western society overall on social media.
in intelligence and a lot of these aspects.
And so that's why we've got a concern.
And so when they do these little games
where they say, you know what,
they're getting funding,
but it's not direct.
Well, look, that game can work with
people who are not very smart.
But people who are smart,
they see the connections.
They know that, yeah,
they aren't getting direct funding,
but we saw...
the level of funding they were getting,
the level of funding they were getting to attack people from Jan 6,
which a lot of Americans care about,
and calling them a terrorist organization.
So this is what this organization's about.
It's about basically control and power.
And yes, they have shown the level of power that they have
by taking away sponsors.
And remember, them sponsors have been taken away mainly because of Elon Musk,
because in reality we know,
there are certain people who pose things that are highly problematic and then
according to people that that's fine so let's be clear it is a lot more complex
but with the ADL they're highly problematic and any organization
who is similar as the ADL who use their power to basically silence
so I am I think Sully made some good points probably is
few good points in the entire space we've had today.
Unlike Sully, I'm not going to give my final words
because I try to remain as unbiased as possible
so I can unbiasedly moderate a panel.
And Sully just tried to mute me
not knowing that he cannot mute the host.
And we'll continue the space in the sub-only space right now
because Sully's got his own issues with me
and how the space went and I've got issues in the way he's moderated.
So we're going to jump off there.
Just thanks to Kilesi, Sully and Fiji
for making this space happen.
But let's go into the sub-only space.
I'll kick it off now.
