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AI: agents, automation & alpha @sinthive × @0xZentra x @Minima_Global
Recorded: July 24, 2025 Duration: 1:11:19Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, leaders from Zentra, Minima, and Centra shared insights on their innovative projects, strategic partnerships, and the integration of AI in blockchain, highlighting the industry's shift towards decentralized solutions and user-centric applications.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Hey, hey, can you hear me?
I hear you. hey hey can you hear me hey i'm so sorry for starting this late i faced a lot of issues while starting this i don't know why it was not getting started so i had to like change multiple devices yeah I like it. Yeah.
I have KJ as well. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Can you hear me?
Yeah, I can.
Can you hear me?
Yes.
Adam, am I audible?
I'm here, thank you.
Yeah. We are just waiting in for Elia to join in and then we can get started. Thank you. I think we should get started now, like until he joins in.
I'm so sorry for being late, guys.
I think I was getting like last minute issues with the space.
Like I wasn't able to start it and thank you so much for making in and uh super excited for being here today i have
some special guests with me like from zentra from minima and even scent so first of all i would like
everybody to unmute themselves and actually introduce themselves,
what they have been doing, what they have been working on, and what they are super excited about next week.
So, yeah, please go ahead, guys.
KJ, you started my mind.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. My turn? Yeah.
So exciting to have you here, like meeting everyone here.
I'm Dr. KJ.
I'm the founder of the Zentra project.
And Zentra is a new type of infrastructure in the blockchain world.
And I'm the scientist behind it.
Yeah, yeah.
Some new theories based on this new product. So I want to introduce
later, you know, it's just about me. I'm a PhD in cryptography and now I've been working
in the decentralized system in many years. Yeah, nice to meet you. Amazing, man.
Yes, great.
And thank you very much.
My name is Adam Feiler and I'm Head of Partnerships at Minima.
Minima is the most decentralized blockchain ever made.
It is a blockchain that runs full nodes on mobile and personal devices. And it is a peer-to-peer system with no intermediaries where all computation is
conducted in a collaborative manner. So everybody interacts seamlessly, making it very, very
resilient and very, very lightweight. So happy to, very happy to be on this, on this Twitter
space today, because this is exactly where we see the synergy of meeting of blockchain and AI.
So thank you for the invite.
Amazing.
Ania, do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself?
Yeah, just to definitely a quick intro.
I'm just behind the Centra page show, mainly just just head of business development within Centra with Dr. Gij.
And yeah, just we're excited to see where we can bring the space with AI agents, have a Python
smart contract background, and yeah, just excited where these things will go something that comes off to my mind right now like many guys say like python smart contract like why exactly would you want python to be the baseline for a smart
contract like is it better in terms of performance is it better in terms of security like what's what's the major reason behind python having that on the as a layer
behind it like is that because like how you're trying to solve a specific problem or like
what what's the major reason behind it like i'm i'm curious right now okay okay thank you for interesting this like is this of course the first things
uh we try to present to the to the audience like uh we have a python with a smash contract right
and uh of course you know uh we see the we see we see we see there's a lot of things things like a
like a uh uh solidity and the evm is dominating this field. And definitely the main reason, of course,
any language like running on the platform
is like a Turing complete language.
But what makes it since Python very unique
is Python is the number one.
It's the most of the program language with the most audience
and you know people don't have to learn uh learn a new language that's first of first
that's but second no it's like anything of course anything we can do in python definitely can be
done in other languages but we have very unique it's because we have a new theory called a minus theory
it's saying that if you come with the zentra and you can write a very complex application
very complex actually so there's no gas limit in uh zentra with. So Python is the number one thing we want to satisfy the developers
because it's more easy, more readable,
and more security, more mature.
But we have the minor theory,
which was not as famous as Python, of course.
But you can see we can do the things
that other platforms cannot do.
No, other existing platforms cannot do.
It's this unlimited gas.
But don't you think like if you are trying to put like,
you're just removing the gas constraint
because you're making it very native for Python development itself
and what is the restriction with Solidity right now,
or with Move right now,
or even with Rust, which is eventually like,
it would be completing it.
What's the issues specifically
that ZRise trying to solve with different?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's a very good question.
What's the current situation?
We know that, you know,
things from Bitcoin to like Ethereum,
that's an upgrade, right?
And people introduced a smart contract
smart contract in the blockchain system.
in the blockchain system.
And by that time,
And by that time,
they designed to bind this kind of EVM
together with a blockchain node.
So it's like a node contains the EVM
so that the EVM execution must be done
between two blocks.
So in Bitcoin, it's 10 minutes, right?
And in Ethereum, that was like 15 seconds.
That means within 15 seconds,
you can only have like 15 seconds.
That's time, right?
For example, if you try to execution
like 10,000, 100,000 of the transactions
in the virtual machine, if you're familiar with the virtual machine you know EVM is a lighter wave of light light version of virtual machine but if you know when we talk about virtual machine maybe like a like a virtual box and other things like running a windows in a virtual machine that's also that's the same concept it's all virtual machine but you can image but you know if you want to execute such a like like a heavy heavy
computation you only have 15 seconds yeah that's it that's the limitation right so it's impossible
to have infinite transactions on solidarity with people yes yeah because of the block time specifically or is it something
which is like that's the one question that's that's the main question because no no time is
there we only have 13 seconds yeah right and the other things we only have two seconds in the
layer two right so it's very you know to the end user to the the end user, to the non-technical user, it's very easy to explain, right?
We cannot have so much TPS because we don't have so much time.
Okay.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Like, if I think about it, like, don't you feel,
oh, I think I'm going a bit deep on that.
But yeah, I'll come back to you later kj because it's like supremely uh uh exciting for me honestly like because like i i don't know if
you guys know gen layer these were one of the uh projects which are trying to get like python smart
contracts right now like you guys should really speak to them,
like really exciting stuff,
what they have been doing.
And this, I was going through like the minus theory
and things which you have,
which you guys have put it out there,
like researching a bit.
So it's really amazing, honestly.
Like coming back to my second set of questions,
and this is, and Elia, welcome to the space.
Super glad to have you.
Always a pleasure to get ecosystem
products there.
Thank you so much, guys. Thank you.
Happy to be here. Sorry to jump in a little
bit later, but the morning
was a bit crazy. Yeah, he's a busy man.
But coming back to
Adam, I'm really curious about like what Minima is trying to solve and like what's what's the major mode for Minima in this market right now?
Like if I say if you envision it and something like you are really excited about.
So, yeah, please feel free to go ahead and tell people about it.
So, yeah, please feel free to go ahead and tell people about it.
Yeah, so thank you for the question.
And Miniman's vision is that we should allow every person
or every device to run a full node.
And that means that, you know, it's a bold statement
that if we want true decentralization, not just an illusion,
everyone must run a full node.
So that basically flips the
traditional model of blockchains on the head where you outsource or you rely on others to maintain
the network in this case we are asking everybody to contribute and clearly that comes with a level
of responsibility but what we are building is something lightweight enough to run in full invisibly in the background so essentially the user experience is like running a whatsapp or
messaging app on your phone and the minima node just sits there contributing by an addition by
adding a tiny amount of work a little bit of work in the background and the consensus mechanism is that four nodes are mined but in a collaborative
method where each node contributes a small amount of work and that little amount of work is added
to amount to a very large amount of compute which keeps the security in the network. But instead of paying miners, we are all
collaborating, essentially for free. But the incentive for us for doing this is that we are
able to support a completely censorship resistant and resilient network. So it's a true peer-to-peer network just run by its by its users um and so
that was that was the starting point and that we have shown and we've grown the network organically
uh we have about 50 000 full nodes running on people's devices around the globe um and that
was proof of concept our uh our growth growth strategy has been to work with partners.
So we have had very exciting collaborations with automotive companies.
We've worked with motorsports companies embedding minimum nodes on sports cars, securing data in real time.
and ultimately our end goal is that we will enter the machine economy where every autonomous agent
is able to run the full node and therefore have true sovereignty and autonomy and be in charge of
their their wallet so that you know it is as i said it's a bold statement we've actually done it
we've got 50 000 people proving that this works and the key is a very very strong and censorship network
and once you've got that underlying tech then you can build the exciting projects that you know that
we're going to allude to with ai and don't you think like if we are putting these many nodes out
there like how do you orchestrate them in a very hyper-sensitive environment?
Let's say I want to train a cluster and I want to do all of these things.
How would my workload would define what machine it's going to use?
What's the POV around that?
What's your POV on selecting, like selecting what kind of model,
like for example, if you want to use like, if you want to train a model,
if you want to do anything with minima itself,
how would those nodes define what kind of workload they would be treated with?
Okay, so, you know, it is an important distinction
between the function of the node and then the distributed compute and the workload.
The nodes do all each node is equal on the network.
There is no hierarchy and therefore each node is just as fun.
His main function is just to validate transactions on the network.
What we and what we are, as you understand,
moving towards is chain on chip.
So what we hope is blockchain functionality
embedded in the computer chip
so that devices will be able to essentially pay
for their own compute, pay for their services
and receive payments.
And so in terms of your question,
in terms of large amounts of compute needing
we are going to collaborate with the likes of you know the likes of the partners here because
that's exactly where the synergy is so distributed cpus and gpus will provide the grunt work
and each node will act almost like an auditor of that data.
So it's not so much that we add the work of the nodes collectively
to do a large amount of single processing.
It's more the fact that these nodes sit under that CPU layer
just to validate data, act as a validator of those transactions.
Understood.
Pretty interesting, honestly.
I really like what Edge Network can really do.
We have been supporters of Edge Network throughout.
What we love is that the ability to decentralize compute via different machines is something
which is very pivotal for this for this segment yes and uh coming coming to that and uh oh did we lose ilia again okay i'm just
gonna hand him as a speaker uh ilia why don't you introduce yourself and tell us what you're building at synth
hey guys yeah thank you so much um pleasure to be here my name is ilia i'm a tech and design
entrepreneur and nerd at some point i've been building tech and designing the products
I've been building tech and designing the products most of my life.
The key thing for me is always a user experience and, you know, goal-oriented design.
So that's where I'm pretty much playing in this current build that's called Synth.
current build that's called Synth.
Even though I have, like, in my experience, access in Web 2
and I exited Web 3 companies, I think that
this current AI cycle is a bit magical
because the possibilities, what we can do with tech
are insanely cool and limitless.
And what we achieved so far uh pretty cool result
actually on the product side uh have like a full interaction with uh synth avatar uh
which are pretty smooth and uh you know have the emotions back and uh he dancing and moving and we we showed our first demo on on uh east Denver hackathon in
February where nobody showed anything like that yet and Grok just like few weeks ago uh launched
the waifu avatar um you know for me just like another another attraction that we are going
into the right direction and uh i'm pretty happy that
we had it way earlier that we showed it uh currently our product going live um next week
uh so all other users can play around with you know our attack we have uh white listed around
uh 60 000 users in our mini app so uh all all the users who whitelisted in mini app going to be
um receiving the synth points uh in in the main application and the points will be used for uh
pretty much transaction gas and you know um it's like ai tokens right that they can use
uh the whole idea that uh with sent a product you can execute way more
cool things uh or cooler thing that you can get in regular LLM uh because we built pretty big
uh integrational uh layer where we have you know hundreds of MCPs and then we developed uh unique
skills that also kind of like an experiences for the user.
So we will be launching a giveaway skill.
It means that user can communicate with his AI and receive a drop of tokens from, you know,
our partners, Fetch.ai or Singularity or GT Protocol, receive like a drop of their tokens and uh it's pretty cool that you know you
can do that just communicating with ai uh and it's going to be part of our lunch lunch go to market
strategy that everyone will just start chatting as he usually chat with llm they can also do it
with voice they will create memes and then they ultimately will post those memes into
um Twitter and then uh our agent will select who is the best um you know who created the best meme
and then uh we'll launch in uh trading autopilot with GT protocol in singularity finance that's
also a cool thing we're testing the market market is pretty good right now so uh it's
kind of like a bullish trend uh it's not the bull market yet but it's very very bullish so i think
that with current market conditions and the results that we are seeing in those tests user can get like
from 10 up to like 18 a month uh passive uh ro ROI and that's pretty cool.
So I think that's going to be a key component for our launch
so everyone can try a passive autopilot.
I'm excited about this part.
And then we also build in an experiences.
So because it's all about the communication,
it's all about the cool new dynamic context based AI, UI, UX, where you say a command
and now your product giving you results, pretty much like a Jarvis.
So we build in that Jarvis like experience where you can communicate with complicated things
because, you know, I'm a product guy.
I've been in a pre for too long.
And the reason why I actually move
into AI because I see that that's the uh you know way of uh and path of like innovation and
uh improving uh any product because right now is that approach uh that we're building uh we can
make any complicated uh complex experiences way more way more simpler uh with one command like make
money for me you can receive a 15 roi a month for example instead of just you know searching and then
uh looking for multiple applications and then bridging them all together uh to achieve that
you have like uh you can perfectly funnel everything into one interface
that uh you don't need button you need much buttons you don't need much uh um you know elements
blocks anymore you know it's all dynamic you just ask the question and you receive the result and
part of those experiences is uh you know quite interesting we're doing like a meditation with AI
or uh you know how the AI can help you how can how that assistant can help you to uh be better to
heal yourself or achieve more result than work and it's quite interesting a lot of R&D on my side
we're building a lot um you know still a startup uh we have a good support from our angels um
i think if the market is recovering just to hear your thoughts if you know anybody looking at the
market if there was any successful launches and what do you guys feel is the next big thing and
what's the current cycle will be compared to any other ones was the trend I'm I believe that AI RWA stables
uh and the def I def AI also um uh it's a it's a narrative but uh how exactly it will be let's
see so yeah interesting pretty good pretty good idea like I it's it's good to to hear the ideas around how things are happening.
First of all, I asked a lot of questions
which were around your specific projects,
and I think we heard multiple things.
It makes me super excited about
this whole space and industry itself.
But more coming on very general topics right now now and i would not go ahead and point
anyone this is an open space and i want to answer anybody who's who wants to speak and just unmute
themselves and go ahead but i'm really curious on like how do you feel what is the biggest blocker right now for Web3 AI versus Web2 AI into getting more users?
Because Web2 AI is starting to get some set of users which are growing pretty rapidly,
while Web3 AI still struggle. So what do you guys feel is one of the major blockers right now,
one of the major blockers right now like in today's market
like in today's market?
okay well maybe if i start and uh take yeah a minimum for sure
minimum a minimum perspective as you know well is um is decentralization above all and it uh is a
a concept of censorship resistance through um having centralizing forces and the web 3 versus web 2
experience is exactly that and we are you know we it's interesting because there is a I mean I live
in Scandinavia and there is a slow resistance even even now, creeping in against mobile phones.
And, you know, there's been backlash over the last few years that people have suddenly woken up to the fact that their mobile data and their online data is being scraped and used as advertising campaigns.
And people are waking up saying, well, either I'd like to get paid for that data or even more, I want to be I want to be anonymous.
And so the experience that, you know, Web2 has provided is very, very convenient, very slick.
You know, you log on to a website, everything you expect to have presented is there.
But you give away your privacy, you give away certain elements of
flexibility. And the Web3 offer here is that we can operate as independent actors in this
environment. And the challenge though is how do you connect and that is the challenge with AI agents if you don't have a centralized database or a
centralized website how do agents find each other in a decentralized way so
this is the challenge and I think that there's a huge excitement around you
know in the startup field of AI agents and technology but the challenge is then how do you coordinate how do you
interact and the mcp you know way standard of ai interaction of course is setting is setting
the goals of having disparate ai agents being able to communicate across different networks. So it is a challenge, I agree, but the movement is a way
that people are waking up to the fact that we shouldn't just rely
on the big tech companies to handle all of this data.
And if you are speaking of these many data right now,
If you are speaking of these many data right now,
do you think agents coming to this cape is helping
in any sort of...
Is it really helpful for Web2.ai or is it really helpful for Web3.ai?
Does it open the market for better Web3.ai products to come over
or it's still in crew?
I think it does. I mean, you know, you open, you open to true market forces and hopefully
the best technology surfaces. So it does, it does mean that it's highly competitive
and you need to have some feature that people want to get known about but i think that um you know a web 3 approach for agents is um is an excellent approach um i'm
interested to know of uh since uh opinion on this and uh and uh the others yeah yeah uh i would love
to yeah i'd love to jump in i mean like the the question that spiron is asking is like uh regarding
web 2 and web 3 uh and i was kind of like dealing with it uh and still uh in in in that uh pace uh
myself because i see that there are so many startups in web 2 who actually rapidly rapidly um you know developing and executing and getting traction
and fundraising um the reason why we started with web3 because you know we have uh but three
ecosystems and partners and then we also uh i've been building in web3 as well and you know i love
web3 but web3 has very uh you know very much like web3 is still pretty much developing right and
we uh we know that the main amount of users are on web2 product side so compare like you know
i don't remember what exact percentage but i think like compared to whole active amount of users web3
is just like around like five percent or something right so we understand
that the main the main uh traffic of the users are in in in any product they in web 2. so um
especially on the AI side right uh I think GPT just got like they like billions of users already billions of the installs of the GPT
application compared to uh bottleneck of web3 where you know if it's AI web3 it means that it's
just like five percent of all the users who focus in on you know and and want to use web3 or want
to use crypto so the answer for that I mean like it's a crypto
adaption and a web3 adaption and I think the the with AI with that product we can actually
make this adaption faster and better so that's what we're doing and um um uh pretty much I see
that like the the AI is bringing that uh you know benefits for web3 because users can actually very
easy with the applications that we build they can easy breach uh uh web3 functionality uh with
web2 functionalities in one in one assistant for example or in one in where I can execute both Web2 and Web3 products and tasks.
One second, guys.
My dog is going crazy.
So give me a second.
I will give the microphone to somebody else.
Yeah, I would love to hear from you, KJ.
How do you and anybody?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
I agree with the previous two.
One is the data.
One is like the adoption.
So any application we have in Web 2,
it's extremely difficult to port into Web 3.
Just look at, of course, the money, right?
Money related to things.
That's the first step Web 3 is doing,
crypto is doing it, like Bitcoin, Ethereum,
like you can stable coins that's
uh that's that's that's like a difficult part to the uh to the web to the crypto world it looks
like a easy part but if you try to bridge other other applications even like a simple bbs forum
uh for now it's still hard to port to like a like a blockchain or other things right well i understand like those
applications so those dfs don't have to be blockchain apps it could be something like a p2p
application or something else it's like they are all decentralized but um it's it's true that if you
try to make a centralized things into a decentralized way, it's much more harder in the engineering side.
Yeah, in the engineering side.
It's just like the simple things,
if you try to get a movie download, right?
It's illegal, but you just need a web server.
But if you want to do it in a P2P way,
you need something like BitTorrent, right?
So the engineering part is totally different.
So everything comes from centralized to decentralized.
It's far more complex.
It requires more knowledge of cryptography,
like engineering knowledge, and then architecture.
There's lots of things.
So one thing is we want to expand.
From Zentra, we want to expand.
From Zantra, we want to expand like there's a limitation,
for example, gas limitation or other limitation,
which cannot do in the EVM or Solidity, right? Yeah, Solidity and Solana.
Like that, we want to make the impossible things possible.
It's like expanding the strength of like on-chain things.
Yeah.
The capability. Yeah.
The capability. Yeah.
In terms of like capability itself, like, do you really feel like,
as I think Ilia also mentioned, and you have also mentioned, like,
at first, like, we make a lot of infrastructure products, and Adam has also put this ahead. And I feel like there is not a lot of space for actually taking out the specific use cases.
the specific use cases like we just saw like base launched it it's so involved which has
like a lot of social features and a lot of things which are around that like what do you what do you
think of it like do you think it's an experiment do you think it's going to work and like how how
it's going to like pan out for the whole industry itself like you see that there are
different types of uh like there are different types of experiments which go down and i i really
want to know like how do you really feel that there are going to be a lot of experiments which happen but where do you feel is is the eventual DX of finding okay this is
working for us and we would scale on this like well what's what's your POV on that yeah yeah
there are two opinions like so so what one side like people trying to build the application d apps on blockchains and all other ways and this
says like so many years have been passed so this attempt like to build a rich application
uh was not as very successful because you know uh people don't don't care about like a like a paying
paying a blockchain to post a twitter or like a send a message right that's too expensive compared to
like web in web 3. in your web 2 it's like a free messaging uh free anything right so one voice is
saying that there's unnecessary to have a blockchain application on the others other track like like
social like other system blockchain should focus on focus on finance
related things but another thing is that okay it's because of the the infrastructure is not ready so
everything is expensive you want to spend two dollars to post a message
something like that of course you know there's argument there's a there's a experiment some
people try to do it and some people feel that so. So maybe it's just not a good timing.
But definitely, so from my understanding, definitely if it's money related application,
it will come first on the blockchain infrastructure because, you know,
you basically spend money to make more money, right?
It totally makes sense. you do the tax uh trading
do whatever you do you do you spend some some cost but i think the future is one one of the
key reasons it will be like the immaturative like a blockchain infrastructure because you know we
have the gas limit we have so much like on-chain data right we don't have a we
don't have a very popular decentralized storage protocol we wish like a fair count could do that
you know or air wave but you know it's like a it's like people don't buy out people people
don't buy in to buy so so there's i think there's still a long way to go in the infrastructure level
and something have to be changed
to slowly change,
upgrade to make the impossible things
or like people make the use case
which was, how to say,
like inconvenient, right?
Not a marketing fit use case.
Make it like with the operation of like infrastructure make it possible just
like a like a 10 years ago or 20 years ago like watching YouTube is impossible
right because the infrastructure of the internet it was not ready right so that's
such a kind of applications not good on on trend now but maybe maybe maybe we'll be ready in the future
yeah maybe i can just jump in and just mention that um i mean your your um framing of uh you
know experimentation i think what's interesting is we're living through a period where we're
watching experiments in real time so uh products used to be um you know
manufactured behind sort of firewalls and closed doors and then released and now we're allowing
people to experiment in real time um and i'd just like to point out a project it's a community
based project where um a community members have built an agent on Minima blockchain.
And it's a community-driven product, which is open source,
and is basically embedding a very compact LLM into a device running a full node
that the agent is truly autonomous and self-sovereign.
So it gives them both a voice and a wallet.
And they are aware that they have a wallet, a balance.
And currently Vita is the AI agent
that is interacting on a social platform
running on Minima called V.
And it can respond to questions
and it can provide answers. But importantly, it can respond to questions and it can provide answers but importantly it can tip
as well and it can reward users for contributing to the greater knowledge base and that is an
example where we're absolutely seeing what happens when you essentially let an agent free in an
environment where it's conscious that it's interacting with people and it's conscious that it can pay and get rewarded for contribution.
So this is just starting, it will launch in August
and it will be a very interesting live experiment
to see what direction it takes.
And I think that the next step there
is going to be dedicated agents with specific skills
contributing as a network.
And again, with the understanding that they can pay for their services. So you know that that is that's taking off already
and I think that we'll see more and more of those type of projects.
And like in terms of those projects like what do you feel is on the top line, like which have mastered the art of experimentation
and people utilizing it?
Like there are definitely like different ecosystem,
which has a lot of good use cases.
Like I saw Sonic has been doing some amazing work.
And then like Solana has been pretty active into like,
you know, like people people launching very early,
but what do you think are the ecosystem which has provided a lot of builders
with that kind of perspective that, okay, we can just ship things and let people know
and then experiment around it, get the PMF and get started?
like what's your experiences on that? Well the large blockchains with good
What's your experiences on that?
funding initiatives have been pretty successful I'd say so the top tier you
know the AI powered blockchains and Nia for example Singularity was mentioned
and ASI-1 is collaboration Ocean Protocol ocean protocol kudos and singularity they are pushing
the boundaries and it's and it's really interesting that it's a collaborative I mean the ones the the
work that's succeeding is the projects of collaboration where we're providing specialist
tools in a collaborative environment so in this case, decentralized compute married with online transactions,
married with artists creating NFTs
and those type of things.
So I would say that you're right,
there's been a lot of progress
and it has been funded through grants and through incentives where it's bringing together lots of value from different developers.
And the interesting thing is, we're seeing these developers in real time.
So the rate of pace of development is astonishing.
pace of development is is astonishing and uh what do you guys feel like uh ilia
yeah and then kj like what what's your pov on this
uh yes guys yeah sorry uh if you could repeat the question, what was for me? It is that a lot of people have gone ahead and created, have done a lot of experiment.
And what do you think for an ecosystem? Because I think you have been pretty heavy on the singularities, ASI's ecosystem.
And that's where I think I kind of got introduced to you as well.
So, like, eventually, like, what do you think is the limit of doing experiments?
And does it really find the PMF for you, like, testing and running multiple things?
Like, what's the outcome of that yeah I mean like it's uh it's a lot of uh a lot of boss right in in web3 world and
um a lot of R&D on which we have hypothesis we have ideas and we think that we can make this
tech work and um pretty much moving into that progress uh building these things um but it it's not
guarantee that actually you know that specific product uh gonna achieve some success you can
get some result on our on the R&D side where you might gonna help the industry and you might gonna
help you know another 10 projects like like yours um will be doing the same um kind of like approach and then
at some point somebody will be uh as a part of the evolution of the tech will be successful
uh and it's kind of like the whole startup uh startup journey in general um again many products
a lot of like genius and crazy cool ideas that we can see on that AI web3 market right but uh not a lot of usage not a lot
of uh actually working use cases uh not a lot of needs for that project because there is no uh
usually not like a working product or you know people just just stuck into that you know R&D
mod building building building but then the final product is not executed and you know the
budget is burned uh you know developers are looking like developers and needs to be fitted and
you know it's hard to move forward and then you know the the cycle is not there and market is
not there and that's it and that's how the many many projects die in that space so like what I'm like what we need to
learn in web 3 from web 2 is like what's the problems we're solving is there is like you
know is there like a real problem that user will need to solve it and he actually going to use your
application for uh that benefit him at some point or is just like a buzzword and we just like want to make like have fun and we just you know
want to um do some r&d you know like it's like it's like like a scientist you know like like we
all love technology we all love to dig into it we all love to dig into that innovation and it's
kind of cool but it's cool for small group of people so in this case um you know if you're
looking into like the main retail the main users
like you know grandmas or you know young people or i don't know whoever is going to be whoever is
that audience what what the benefits they will get from the products that we're building you know
why they need the products you know and it's you know it's quite interesting topic i mean i i love si ecosystem many cool projects and you know si is
building um really good um hardware uh direction as far as i know with uh commute and things like
that i i think like fetch has pretty good tech build uh and even that like you know like with
you know all the amounts of you know funding and amount of developers working on um many many um you know projects and you know uh
tech in the ecosystem we still can see that you know first of all it's hard to compete with you
know uh web 2 leaders on the market it's hard to compete with Google with open AI it's hard to
compete with entropic because those guys have way bigger funding way bigger amount of service like like
Elon Musk you know just he like he easy can kill my startup you know just like in in a matter of
like click right he just launched this avatars and I was like I've been building those hours
eight months and my product was cooler since February but right now uh you know elon on x launching the avatar and
understand that i have to i have to continue keep you know finding those innovations continue doing
r d at some point but then i need to get those users i need to start you know getting traction
so more people believe into what i do and it's it's a big struggle for web3 ai startups and for web3 in general um uh and also you know
like we know that tech wise it's almost impossible to beat them and I actually I met the guy from
open AI in San Francisco a few days ago uh he's the lead of uh go to market for open AI and I had
pretty cool conversation with him about the topic and I I was like, what do you think, like, me as a, you know, startup owner,
building, you know, innovations in R&D, you know,
and understanding that GPT can kill me anytime, just integrating.
What would you recommend?
And he's like, he say that, you know, just try to build something that,
you know, like, don't try to compete with gpt
don't try to compete with grov just build exactly where you at and you know i think we're all pretty
much there i mean i i really like what spiron is doing i really like what you guys saying we're
pretty much all there but we need to understand that it's very very small audience in web3 ai
and the the amount of users who got screwed by by the latest uh market right
like I think we all there we can like oh my God what is going to be the next cycle you know how
are we gonna how are we gonna back there uh because many people just lost huge ton of crypto uh after
Trump after all this you know dumps and you know Solana and like all other ones and um i think the the the
decentralization is also a really really needed approach because there's always should be an
opposition for something uh because if it's just one power uh it's like uh totalitarianism and like
it shouldn't be there it's always needs to be something that uh balance it so i think
that that centralized agi and what ben girls are working on it's like it's you know i'm proud to be
working with him he's one of my you know advisors and you know investors and since as well and you
know having those people around it's it's super cool but I understand that execution of those projects are so complicated
because you know you need to get all this funding from from very very big investors who will be
supporting you on building that centralized AGI and thinking about AI in general that you know
every uh you know the industry is moving so fast that we all understand that ai is going to be a key
player in military key player in politics kill key player in in in tech and you know pretty much
can at some point we'll be doing everything instead of humans in tech right building itself
and uh scaling so uh having the decentralized approach uh where uh we have our own networks where we have
our own um um AI that not uh controlled by you know governments and you know other things and
just in generally seeing the current cycle where you know yeah it's kind of like a bullish trend
Trump is the president
everyone was hyping but then suck all liquidity from the market and now bitcoin enthusiasts who've
been building bitcoin as decentralized network or we can see that bitcoin right now is like fully
government control almost like fully maybe not not fully but you know becoming a very government
control currency at some point,
because huge big funds investing into it, government investing into it.
But that was not the idea of Bitcoin.
There is no decentralization in it.
If the government like US or China like going to own the Bitcoin,
that's not what the idea of Bitcoin was, because the idea of Bitcoin
was to build that centralized currency
for people to have ability um have a currency without uh you know the governments or big
big organization in the world so it's pretty cool cool interesting things um I'm continue I'm just
continuing building and you know continue believing that um my project is going to be successful we will be launching
soon please join guys you know uh synth and you know check it out you know we right now preparing
for lunch and um you know looking forward for cool integrations and you know hope you all
all gotta enjoy what we built with ai pretty amazing i have a similar approach, not similar, I have a different approach, like, so basically
you're saying like, in Web3, right, AI is how to compete with Web2 AIs, but even more
than that, you know, even like in Web2 AIs, there's a heavy computation.
Look at things like Cloud Datcode and Google CRI comes out, and then we don't use cursor anymore.
So it's horrible.
Even in Web2, it's highly rated to fail in that way so i will say that in startup
in crypto will be a different approach because you cannot expect that in satoshi in 2000 2008
joined google to create uh like a bitcoin like that way right why those things uh happened not in a big companies why it's impossible to happen over
there right so that's the reason you know we we do the startup because you know we we want to do
something that the giant company cannot do cannot move on so i will believe that you know things will be like theory driven instead of just like a like a simple new
product that's all the way minus theory and how zentra is starting on the startup because we
starting things from the scientific research we come from the idea of like okay uh when it comes with a new theory without a
new theory it's impossible to create like another new generation of product actually it's impossible
you look at it just look at history because like satoshi's white paper which driven the bitcoin come out right blockchain come
out and the idea of like maybe it's theory level like combine the blockchain with some some smart
contract program language comes another wave of uh ethereum and other coloners right other clones of the the next generation of blockchains but we
are looking at like new theory can driven us something different we can see something that
other people cannot see it's like a foresee with the knowledge and with this minor theory we can foresee that it might
be a result
that there
could not be another
layer 1 or another
layer 2 in the
future as successful as Bitcoin
and Ethereum
we don't know
because you know look at
the history.
Like, while Microsoft is trying to dominate the web browser with IE,
and it kills almost like Netscape, right?
And it's betting that everything comes from the Internet Explorer
is within IE IE window.
But Google comes out and the valuation will be more than IE, right?
It's in that box, it's in that window.
It's the whole internet.
But the next big thing is Google is not IE.
Yeah, mostly I think of it yeah yeah yeah
yeah yeah so we have a successful maybe three successful layer ones like a bitcoin ethereum
and solana right maybe there will be not another one as successful as them. I don't know. I don't know.
Because I also dream of building a layer one one day, right?
But maybe it could be something like new animals,
new animals in the infrastructure.
So it depends on the knowledge, on the theory.
So why Zantra is going to build something?
We define ourselves either not a layer one or layer two.
It could be something new.
So Xantra is something we learned from the new theory,
and we think we can build something.
It's infrastructure, but it's not either a layer one or layer two.
Got it.
Yeah, pretty interesting
thought process, honestly.
It depends on
what you eventually want to succeed.
What do you take as success?
You make
a startup like a copycat
definitely lead to something.
Very tough situation.
That's what I mean.
We need to do something, not say, okay, I to something, you know, very tough situation. That's what I mean. It's like we need to do something, not say,
okay, I see something, demand, I want to build something,
and I satisfy the client.
That's a very standard way of, like, how do we find new ideas, right?
But maybe another way.
Our approach, you know, of course, we will see the demand.
We will see what we are going to build and we'll find the new users but another way the new idea must based on the new theory
to make the previously impossible things possible
yeah eventually yes that's my point that's my point yeah but yeah it has been pretty good like honestly
like this space has been more of like brainstorming with friends together what can happen in in the
segment and uh pretty amazing to see like the thought process and the train of thought you guys
have around the products and over ai agents itself has been pretty amazing like i i personally like
like conversations where people speak freely
and tend to give things around
what they really feel about the technology itself.
But happy to ask you,
I can give you 10 seconds chill to everybody
to tell what they are building on.
Ilya, KJ, Adam, you go in in whatever respective way you want to and uh yeah
drop some alpha for us yeah yeah awesome yeah we're preparing for uh preparing for tg currently
fundraising uh launching the product launching the cool features in the product the main cool
things that differentiate us from other AIs is an
experience of how you're using it we have interactive avatar it's super smooth it has
emotions back it you know we're going to be launching different 3D models very soon and
we already integrate in all these B2B directions so the cool part that you know our avatar and our synth widget can work on top
of any partner's product on top of any business um and that give us all this you know b2b um you
know approach so we will be launching the marketplace with skills for AI um next week
I hope so fingers crossed you know it's like with the roadmap is
execution and the bug testing and everything uh we have uh fifth around 55 almost 60 000 users
um uh white listed so our goal will be to convert those users into active users on the
new application Blanche and web um um i'm looking forward to see you
guys there and you know give me some feedback uh we open for integration so if you have any product
that could be uh or ai agent or anything that we can integrate with and make a better ux or make a better integration for our users and your users.
I'm super pumped about that part.
I'm building experiences right now because I see that many projects,
they go into launching the platforms with AI agents,
abilities to have a launch pad there and ability to launch the agent
but not many users understand why they need specific agent and what exact problem he solves
so um i i think that having the best ux possible the best uh goal oriented product that uh
uh goal-oriented uh product that uh cleared for the customer uh what problem he can uh solve with
the product is super important um and also there is no good design no good interface for ai yet
and that's just coming right now and that's where i'm already building and that's what I think that's where I
think we have the strongest component because all this like dynamic context-based uh AI UI UX
uh is going to be a next big thing right it's going to be a new Siri uh new Jarvis new uh tech that um you know without million buttons without million uh iterations or fragmented
experiences you can achieve those goals and uh yeah that's where we all at I guess uh and um
I'm excited I'm excited about this cycle I'm excited to see and hoping that it's going to be
a bull run right so we at least all going to be happy that, you know,
our project is going to be successful.
So I wish everyone good luck.
And yeah, please follow Synth Hive who's here.
And please join our product very soon.
Damn, that was pretty detailed.
Thanks, Celia. It was a pleasure having you, honestly. That was pretty detailed.
Thanks, Celia.
It was a pleasure having you, honestly.
I love your design experience, honestly, and I would still use it over X as avatars for sure.
And yeah, KJ, go ahead.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Zentra is also like, we launched our first testnet last year and
the second testnet is more than beyond that. It's like previously in the first testnet,
we can only see what's happening. And now we can really programming, user can write
Python script and then deploy to that testnet, then have a try. And we also provide some,
it's like a very common use killer app, we try to onboard the order book in the blockchain,
in the virtual machine. So it's a demo to show that very complex things can be done with Zantra and
it will encourage other developers to try and build more complex things which cannot be built in EVM
or other blockchains which can be done in Python. also it's it's more like we have document we have uh um more more features you know it's like a like we try to build a build
applications by ourselves like to understand what's developer could asking for also you know uh
so you know next next next stage we are going to have something like an APP state feature.
So compared to our global state occupation, we can have a separate space for the one app.
But if you run a Zantra indexer, you can choose to enable some APP state so that you are hosting Zantra.
like enable some APB states so that you can,
you are hosting Zantra.
So it's not, it doesn't request a super,
super high spec machines,
but you can also allow this Zantra indexer
to host for some spatial application.
Yeah, so it will cost you some extra storage
and the computation, but, you know,
it's just like we don't have to see
all the indexer has to be a full node, right?
It's like you have to have minimal core node
and the plus you have some addition service
for some application.
So this is the way we try to solve
and we try to say it's like,
we try to keep the decentralized.
It's not like in Ethereum,
if you will try to run a full node,
you have to use a very high spec machines on AWS,
something like that.
But this is the way we try to keep it decentralized,
because everyone, if you don't want to host for any specific application, you can just host Zentra.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Like, pretty amazing of what you guys have been building and pretty, pretty bullish on you guys putting smart contracts via Python.
So, yeah. Anybody, please do check out Centra.
Yeah.
Okay.
So yeah, let me just quickly tell you some exciting collaborations that we've got going.
We have partnered with ARM, the world's largest chip
design company, and we are working with Siemens as well to embed Minima chip on devices. So it gives
full autonomy to devices where they can communicate over the peer-to-peer network.
where they can communicate over the peer-to-peer network and it you know we're looking at
applications for drones for robotics humanoid robotics and you know truly entering the machine
machine economy so everything that we've talked about is now actually being adopted by large
industry and we are the partner to deliver so very excited about that. And we will be running hackathons with universities
and a lot coming out, you know, September, October time. So please look at the Minima
website and our channels for update and alpha.
Amazing, Adam,, this pretty amazing stuff
what Minima has been doing.
Something I want to add in the end,
that Speron is the world's largest decentralized data center,
and it has amazing partners all around the world.
What we are really excited about is RTG,
which is pretty soon.
So we are hands on the deck and team is shipping,
and we have been pretty excited with the whole segment.
It's great to have partners who are aligned with
what we have been doing and what we are trying to solve.
We're pretty excited also on the part that there are
so many ecosystem products which are coming out via Speron and has done an amazing amount of work in this segment.
So, guys, thank you so much for having us.
And apologies for the delay to start this space.
This space went like, I feel like everybody spoke their heart out.
And that's what we really want, like to create a space where everybody can actually tell about their technologies,
what they have been building, and that's what Sweron's ideology is,
to empower as many builders as we can.
Thank you so much for joining the space.
Have a good one, guys.
It's Thursday only, but yeah, weekend's pretty soon.
So yeah, have a good one
yeah nice to meet you yeah bye bye bye guys good luck
