Good morning, Haas. What's going on, buddy?
I got you. Can you hear me?
I haven't drank in a while like that, so I'm at a hotel for my cousin's wedding.
The wedding's today. I don't even know what time it is for today, but it's today.
Yeah, man, just excited to touch base with you.
I feel like I haven't spoken with you for a while, and I wanted to hear about everything that went on.
And feel free to make me jealous, because I did get to check out some stuff from Cosmoverse.
I'm really excited for what was going on there.
And it was nice to see the little clips and photos of our little side event.
I don't want to say side event, our little workshop that we had, and to see, you know, with all the conversations went and, you know, how your experience was in Turkey.
Yeah, it was a great time.
You know, for any of you guys that don't know me, my name is Tyree Robinson.
I am the head of ecosystem over at Araya Chain.
I got our fantastic host, Cosmos Haas, here.
I think we got Nick from UOIO here as well, who I had the pleasure of hanging out with a couple of times, stopped by the booth over at Cosmoverse.
But, yeah, I mean, it's been, honestly, it's been a crazy month.
You know, we started off last month in Singapore, and then I did Token 2049 for a week, and that was kind of crazy and hectic.
A very different type of conference than Cosmoverse.
You know, Token 2049 felt like it was, like, it was very focused on sort of, like, investors and a lot of hype and just, like, so many projects from, like, every corner of the crypto world.
But then, you know, you come to Cosmoverse in Turkey, and it's very focused.
And you got, like, you know, everybody there is, like, a real builder, right?
Like, there wasn't, like, a whole lot of people that were just kind of, like, walking around trying to, like, be scenesters or something.
You know, everybody, you know, huge respect to everybody in Cosmos because, you know, there wasn't a team out there that I wasn't impressed with.
It was really, really beautiful to see, again, like, so many serious teams developing and getting together, finding ways that they can collaborate together.
And, yeah, it was just a great, great week, you know, three-day conference out in Turkey, my first time in Istanbul.
So, you know, definitely a great experience for us.
And, yeah, as you mentioned earlier, we, you know, we did our booth, and we also had a workshop where we got to show off our Cosmosm simulation playground,
which lets people sort of debug smart contracts in Cosmosm and also test IBC in simulation environments without needing to, like, spin up relayers or deal with sort of tokens in a production environment.
But it was, yeah, it was a fantastic week.
And, Nick, how was your week, man?
Like, what was your experience over at Cosmoverse?
For me, it was the first time event ever where I attended to and met, like, a lot of people from Cosmos in real life, such as you.
Hoss, sadly, I didn't get to meet you, but hopefully another day.
It was great to see so much energy, like, maybe on Twitter, not that much is going on at the moment, but in real life, it was packed.
The people were very hardworking, very interested.
And it also gave our team energy to get, like, back on track, to feel that there's still a spirit and that it's now time to, yeah, use that energy and get back in, jump back into.
And it was amazing to see you guys with the booth you had.
And thanks so much for the shirt.
I'm actually wearing it right now.
It's, like, a great design and also that flex fit.
And, yeah, it was amazing.
Hoss, I still have T-shirts for you.
That's, like, one of my favorite things to do when I go to the events is just to collect merch.
It's, like, a souvenir, you know?
And even sometimes at events, like, when teams do other things.
What do you think, Tyree?
What was, like, the notion of the event?
Nick, can you not hear me?
I don't think you can hear me.
Tyree, you can still hear me, right?
I guess if Nick can't hear me, maybe just tell him to back out and then come back.
No, no, you're good, Nick.
So, you can't hear Cosmos Hoss when he's talking.
So, I'm going to give him a minute.
And I'm going to let Hoss chime in with a couple things.
And then I'm going to pass it back over to you, Nick.
Yeah, and then maybe just tell him if he wants to just back out and come right back in.
That usually solves the problem.
It seems like this has been going on lately.
I'm not quite sure why, but maybe it's his Wi-Fi or something.
But anyways, no, like, yeah, one of the things I really enjoy, you know, besides all the energy
and getting to meet everyone in person and collaborating, and we all know that you can get a lot more done,
it seems like, in person because it's just the juices are flowing, the ideas are right in front of you,
and just kind of human nature and stuff.
But is the, you know, the merchandise, because it's like souvenirs.
And more specifically, I really enjoy, like, the little knickknacks or, you know,
one of the things that my favorite thing that I pretty much got was a couple bags.
Like, I don't know what kind of bags they're, like, bags that you can take to, like, the grocery store and stuff.
I got one from MetaMask and one from, I think it was, like, I don't know if it wasn't Umi.
It was another one, like, Aave it was.
And then I got one, I got a laptop cover, like a little zipper bag from Yuma Finance.
It's, like, stuff that I use all the time.
It's, like, you know, it's, like, really look forward to stuff like that.
And then, obviously, the T-shirts, because you can just rock them whenever.
And it's, like, a good conversation starter.
I usually don't wear crypto stuff much.
But, you know, every once in a while, I'll wear a crypto shirt.
And then I'll go to a store.
And it's cool when someone makes a comment.
It's like, hey, yeah, like, you know, I know that.
It's, like, you can start talking to some random person about crypto, which is always good,
because that's the best thing about, you know, conversating with people, in my opinion,
is always bringing crypto into the topic.
But Asperger Cosmoverse, man, it looked really good.
I didn't get to watch a lot of it, because then I didn't want to be super bummed out,
because I was, like, really looking forward to going.
But, no, man, it's going to be interesting to see what everyone's up to.
We were just talking about kind of, Nick was mentioning about Twitter being kind of just, like,
lackluster, so to speak, lately.
And I was, yesterday or the day before, I started messing around.
It's called Stars Arena, and it's on AVAX.
It's kind of like an, it's like a wild, wild west of, like, Twitter, where you get, like,
I don't know if people knows what friends are, where you can, like, reward the people and buy shares and all that stuff.
It's kind of, it's a little bit degenerate.
But it really was fun, and then they had exploits in their contracts.
It's like, well, this, this, their application is really good.
It's something that needs to be built in Cosmos, like, either on a chain or have its own app chain or something,
because it could be very beneficial, in my opinion.
And that's what I'm looking forward to in the next, you know, you know, going into 2024 and in 2024.
It's like, what teams or what products are being built that, like, people can use.
And what I really liked about their application was, is it was super easy, and it was noob friendly.
So, like, you technically had a wallet, and you could withdraw directly from the app,
or you can click export keys, and it would just be, like, your private key.
And you could just throw that into, like, your MetaMask, and then it's just your, whatever, your AVAX is in there.
But I guess not the most secure way of doing things.
I don't know if people know, but, like, there was some sort of exploits or something.
I don't know all the ramifications.
And I know with us, I mean, you want to mention, I know we recently had the Oasis collab and partnership,
and then, you know, anything else that you want to mention about some products that are being built
or you heard of at Cosmoverse.
Yeah, it's been kind of, like, it's been kind of nonstop, right?
So, like, when we went down to Token 2049, and we had already sort of had our partnership with Injective in motion.
So all of that was kind of tied up by the time we were heading down there.
But, you know, we, you know, rolled that partnership out, you know, and obviously did our co-listings and all that.
And now, you know, that we're IBC-enabled between our chains for transfers and message passing and interchain accounts and all that.
There's going to be some really great opportunities for projects building on a ride chain
to really take advantage of Injective's ecosystem and really connect DeFi across all these chains.
Really, that is becoming more of the purpose of a ride chain, right?
So what was really fun about going down and spending the week with sort of Dr. Chung, our CEO, co-founder,
and then also our CTO, too, Pham, and really getting a chance to talk to both of them was, you know,
to kind of go back and forth about, like, what is a ride chain's role within the Cosmos ecosystem,
sort of as we're looking around at what everybody else is building, but then also within the greater crypto ecosystem.
And it really boils down to this account abstraction sort of route that we have that we're seeing sort of playing out with Orchai right now,
where people are able to sort of really quickly and easily orchestrate their transactions across different chains,
different applications, and aggregate the experience of interacting with a bunch of different DeFi protocols
with, like, AI recommendations sitting on top of that for the end user, right?
So, you know, as we were sort of talking to people about how we're using IBC, you know,
Interchain Foundation came over and they were so excited.
They were like, we want you guys to come out and start writing some more, like, blogs and dev pieces
to talk about what you're doing because we think it's really cool and, you know, it's very unique in the space right now.
So, you know, as we're sort of moving forward, it's starting to make more sense, right?
Like, we don't have to be in this L1 war in Cosmos, right?
We just have to facilitate the movement across all of these different chains
and try to bring the value together from, you know, all of the offerings out there into one interface, right?
And that's really the main thing.
And so that kind of brings us over to Oasis, right?
And we've got some great privacy solutions in Cosmos right now, right?
Secret obviously doing great things.
I'm not sure totally what's going on.
Maybe, Nick, you can shed some light on that.
But I know that there's been some shakeup internally over at Secret in the past couple of months and all of that.
But then on the other side, you know, there's also sort of Nomada and they're also doing some privacy, multi-chain privacy solutions as well.
But, you know, when we looked at it, we were really excited about Oasis.
One, because of their experience and understanding of how important data privacy is directly in relationship to AI protocols in general, right?
And then also the fact that they built the Sapphire EVM sort of Oasis privacy layer to be composable
and allows you to really take advantage of their confidential logic on their side.
And all we needed to do or all we need to do, I should say, in order to bring the benefit of their, you know, really strong privacy layer to Cosmos
is to upgrade our bridge with general message passing and be able to allow for any Cosmos chain via IBC and RyeBridge to take advantage of OPL.
So, you know, this idea that we don't have to build every single solution on our ride chain ourselves
and we can, you know, be a facilitator of different opportunities between different chains
is something that's really starting to come into focus.
And the partnership with Oasis is just like really speaks volumes to that,
both as sort of being a trusted resource to do that development work
and also to be given such an enormous opportunity to be like a preferred, you know, bridging partner
that's going to allow for their solution to really scale up.
So that's been exciting for me and all of that.
But, yeah, I mean, the whole conference in Cosmosverse was really awesome.
Some of the talks that I enjoyed the most were listening to NIMM a bit,
talk about their mixing solution for privacy and, you know, their decentralized VPN sort of treatment.
And then NOMIC as well, talking about bringing Bitcoin over to the Cosmos ecosystem.
You know, we're like very much on top of like what NOMIC's been working on.
I've been following that for a while, but...
Yeah, let me hop in right there.
With NOMIC, did you get to listen to their speech?
Like, you know, yesterday, it was yesterday, the day before,
I was going to look into like exactly how they're doing it.
And I started to look into Taproot.
Did you get to listen to any of their conversations?
So how are they doing it?
Because I know like they put out a post or someone put out a post.
It might have been Osmosis or someone.
And I've seen a lot of backlash from people, you know, comments.
But I looked at the comments and I know that there's people that are making comments.
For the most part, they don't understand how tech works.
They just see native Bitcoin coming to Cosmos.
And they're like, that's a scam.
You can't call it native.
I just know how Bitcoin people are.
You know, anything that's being utilized for Bitcoin,
as long as it's not directly on their blockchain,
which obviously it's very limited.
We all know that you'd be naive and kind of moronic to realize that like Bitcoin can only handle so much.
I mean, that's the beauty of Bitcoin, but also the fault of Bitcoin.
And I need to do the deep dive.
And maybe you can give me a little TLDR on exactly how that's working,
because people are just like, it's wrapped.
It's like the first thing people want to say.
And I've seen a comment from someone saying about, well,
you guys need to learn what Taproot is.
And I somewhat understand what Taproot is, but I would like to know if you know more about that.
Yeah, so I'm not going to be able to speak to Taproot from the perspective that anybody listening
that has experience with working with Bitcoin technically would trust what I'm saying.
But what I can basically relay from what I understand about it is that this is as close
to native Bitcoin as you can get coming to the IBC ecosystem, right?
From my understanding, it's not wrapped Bitcoin.
You always will sort of maintain custody of your Bitcoin on the Bitcoin network as well
Basically, there's, you know, from sort of what I saw that was the most exciting piece
was the idea that if something goes wrong with your Bitcoin in the Cosmos ecosystem,
IBC world, that it sort of immediately like releases and goes back to your regular Bitcoin
So I think that, you know, there's going to need to be more clarification about it, definitely
But, you know, what's really exciting about it is that IBC is being used in this way.
Like, so if you have Osmo tokens and you got your Osmo tokens over on any of these other
chains, you know, is it wrapped?
No, it's not wrapped, right?
Like they're not wrapped Osmo tokens on a Rai chain or wrapped Osmo tokens on injective.
You know, IBC is really a very different type of treatment.
And so people that are sort of calling it wrapped Bitcoin and making that argument, I
think, are a little bit separated from like the understanding of what's going on at IBC
in general and then the mechanism that they're using to to bring Bitcoin in.
I know that their Bitcoin treatment is very different than what we're seeing over at Threshold,
right, which is sort of this very decentralized wrapped Threshold TBTC thing.
But when you get your Bitcoin in in the Cosmos ecosystem, it's not going to be BTC.
It's going to be Gnomec BTC and BTC.
So, yeah, you know, it would actually be great to get Gnomec onto the onto the call in the
next week or two and and and let them sort of like hash this out in public.
But we are looking into integrating so people can deposit, you know, their Bitcoin directly
through through Gnomec's bridging solution into, you know, a ride chain, as well as obviously
we're seeing people obviously Osmosis, you know, enabling deposits right away as well.
Yeah, I mean, because that.
Yeah, I mean, that's really exciting because like my for myself, you know, I believe in kind
of Bitcoin as as my savings account and I never trade Bitcoin.
I just stack it and that's just kind of my my my way of doing it, you know, not financial
advice, but it would be kind of nice, especially if I'm like, all right, you know, I think the
market's going to go up here in the next few months or the next year or Bitcoin's going
to be worth more next year than it is now.
That's kind of always my thesis on any question I ask.
I don't get into, well, you know, the Fibonacci's here and I don't get into all that crap.
I mean, I do kind of look at the charts from time to time.
And I'm like, all right, I think this is kind of a good position.
But it would be nice to kind of take that and not have to wrap it and, you know, do
all this crap and then maybe borrow against it or take out, you know, just just something
to do with it, but also bring value into the ecosystem.
And for example, I would love to see it paired like a ride, be paired with it, because then
I would love to provide liquidity and have what I believe, you know, we all kind of believe
and again, not financial advice, but a ride super undervalued.
And then it's like paired against, you know, the best, the best asset, I don't want to
say the best, but the most stable asset in crypto, obviously the most battle tested, been
around the block longer than anyone else has and kind of pair it with it.
It just gives more flexibility.
I mean, I know technically we have that in Cosmos right now, but that's, that is technically
It's wrapped Bitcoin on Ethereum, then bridged over through Axler.
And I'm a big fan of Axler, so I'm not going to say, oh, I feel like it's, it's faulty
or anything, but it's just more, it's better just that we just have it directly in Cosmos.
And then as you were just enumerating that once it's in IBC, it's good.
Like we don't have to worry about any of that.
You know, the other piece of this too, is that like right now we're seeing like more of the
So like if we look, you know, by market cap where the most like volume or financial, you
know, stability is in this market, it's in USDT, USDC and Bitcoin.
Those are like the biggest tokens and obviously Ethereum.
But, you know, being able to actually bring Bitcoin into the ecosystem is important, but
it's also important to have sort of native pathways for, for these stable coins in our
So obviously recently we had the Kava announcement to bring, you know, native USDT into the ecosystem.
And now that's finding its way into other chains through deposits, through Kava, but it's still
very difficult to like go out the other way.
If you want to actually withdraw your USDT from the Cosmos ecosystem, it's, it's not, it's not
The Kava solution is primarily for institutions that are looking to sort of bring large bundles
of cash into the Cosmos ecosystem to take advantage of either providing liquidity to exchanges or
DeFi offerings, something like that.
Now, USDC was also, you know, had a nice presence at Cosmoverse this year.
And, you know, obviously last year they announced that there, or maybe it was earlier this year,
they announced that they would be bringing native USDC into the ecosystem through Noble, which
is for all intents and purposes, a very small chain that's just really well connected.
Uh, there's not like a whole lot of people building on Noble, but Noble's value proposition
as of this point is that they're really going to be that primary touch point for USDC, uh,
I don't quite understand why USDC wouldn't choose, uh, that's why circle wouldn't choose
a chain with more, um, money on it, like Kronos or like injective or like, why would you
choose Noble other than the fact that it's well connected and that Jack Zamplin's kind of
got his hand, like steering things around and orchestrating things in the ecosystem.
But for, in my opinion, like all of these stable coins should be issuing on Osmosis,
Um, like the native USCT, native USDC, they should both be on the same chain on Osmosis
where all of the transactions happen for the entire ecosystem, not on these fringe chains
that nobody's using, right?
Like there's not really a whole lot of people using Kava.
Like, I don't care what anybody says.
There's not really a whole lot of people using Noble.
Um, people will only go to chains because the money has to flow through them.
And that's just kind of a weird dynamic for our ecosystem.
Um, super, it's super weird.
Like, yeah, to add to that, like just looking at it infrastructurally, even if it wasn't
for the transactions, I mean, I mean, there's, it's a fact that, um, when it comes to IBC
and relayers, the most relayers are set up to Osmosis anyway.
So like, it's like you have like, think of it just infrastructurally with highways or
something like everything's connected to say, um, you know, a major port.
It's like, why would you go to a, some off the road, off the rail here port.
And then now everyone has to build infrastructure to that port.
And I think that like, for me, like the two places where we're seeing the most traffic
are between Osmosis and between Atom, right?
Like those are the biggest, those are the biggest hubs in our ecosystem.
And for some reason we can't just get like the really straightforward, you know, common
sense issuance of native stable coins.
So, um, I like that this is all going back to like nomic here, but I like that nomics
and really their goal is to be able to bring it in and immediately enable deposits on the
Having nomic Bitcoin available on Osmosis is really important.
And then sort of figuring out where it goes from there is a lot easier because everybody's
relayers are connected to Osmosis.
And it would be nice to see the stable coin issuers take that same perspective, but, you
know, if not, we have our own stable coin in Silk and, you know, hopefully, you know,
between Silk and IST, we'll start to see more adoption of those, you know, throughout the
But Nick, you got your mic hot, so I'm going to pass it to you.
I think what was also like a really big thing at Cosmoverse was that there was a lot of
talking about UI and UX and reducing friction and just making it easier from a user perspective
to use blockchain and apps.
And I think that's currently what we need is to onboard a lot of users onto Cosmos chains.
And I think that's one of the most important thing.
And I thought it was great that like the one of the main topic was, hey, how can we make
How can we just say, okay, you can connect your Gmail account to onboard and all the other
things which you usually have to do during the onboarding is just more like something
you will have to use during the offboarding from an app or an ecosystem.
And I think that's so important.
And also what we did with Yoyu, our launchpad, was to make it as easy as possible for users
to just use a few clicks and, yeah, stop making it hard for users to use the platforms because
I think with every click you're losing users.
Yeah, you know, I, I, the more, you know, we're, we're a very funny ecosystem, right?
Because I don't know how many chains we have live right now, maybe 80, something like that,
People say they're, they're coming into the Cosmos ecosystem.
They don't even know what that means anymore, right?
Like there are projects, there are chains that most people here have probably never heard
of and they're doing amazing things.
But how do you get there, right?
How do you, how do you get to Quasar and figure out how to take advantage of their pools or,
you know, like, I don't even know, like there are just so many individual projects, right?
So I really love, you know, what Osmosis has been doing, you know, and for those of you
guys that know me, I don't like go out there and like talk about Osmosis all the time, but
I was really impressed by their vision.
And it's a vision that we share, you know, using account abstraction, using really easy
login methods and being able to provide a safe but efficient way for new people to onboard
into the space. I think that those pathways are really important. And, you know, figuring out
how to aggregate the experience from all over Cosmos to sort of one place is, is really big.
So one of the things that Osmosis sort of unveiled, which if anybody that's like active
in the erroneous ecosystem will know that we've been talking about this for like six months now,
but they, they unveiled their sort of like one, one account, sort of account abstraction
treatment where anybody can sort of use Osmosis as a touch point to go and use any sort of
satellite applications or chains in the ecosystem via interchain accounts. This is something that
Orchai on a ride chain has been doing for a long time with even like more features built
into it. And, you know, regardless, I do think that that is sort of the pathway forward so that
when people say, I'm going, I want to use Cosmos or I want to take advantage of what Cosmos
has that they don't have to go and like search through like a bunch of different chains and
like hundreds of D apps on many different chains to figure out exactly what they want or they
need. But that they can just go to something like Orchai or like Osmosis, like their, their
account hub and just be able to jump off from there and find everything that they're looking
for sort of brought directly to them. And I do think that that AI, both sort of NLP, large language
models, like those are going to be like a big part of aggregating that experience and sort of working
more towards satisfying your end users intent rather than sort of making them jump through hoops to, to
find the app that they want. And then have to learn every step along the way, right? Really bringing these like
intent based transactions directly to them and, and delivering them value. That's going to be,
that's going to be a big piece. But, you know, going back to something you said earlier, Haas,
you know, there is a lot of room in our ecosystem for social focused projects. And we're not seeing
like a ton of that right now. Obviously, a couple of these exploits this week, both the one that you've
mentioned. And then, then I think Galaxy also had an exploit this week on their front end. Like
these, that's kind of a bummer because they're, they're important apps and we need people like
this building in the space, but we also need them to be building safe apps in the space, right? So,
I want to pass it back over to you, Nick. And I know that like as sort of a launch pad platform in
the space, you know, building on secret and on say, and hopefully a ride chain in the near future,
like, what is the outlook for you? Like, what do you think is actually going to move the needle for
sort of your business model, but also for the cosmos ecosystem as a whole and getting people
sort of actively engaging and finding new projects again?
So, yeah, it's really about making it as easy as possible and trying to have everything on one
at one place where you say, okay, when users come onto our launch pad, let's say we will deploy on
all right, we could just display everything and make it as easy as possible. I also found it really
great what Sonny from Osmosis did. He asked like a friend who is not really into crypto and told him,
hey, create a wallet, try to onboard. And then he immediately saw where the pain points are.
And it's so important to reduce this friction. And when we were starting out with our launch pad,
it was like an answer to that problem. Because me and my friends, we are all from like an IT background.
And also we were pretty early in crypto, but we had this issue on launch pads that we were struggling to
onboard smoothly. And we wanted to fix that issue. And that's why we applied to a grant from Secret Labs.
And they really liked what we did because we started creating a launch pad by being very user-centric and just
thinking about, hey, where are the problems for users to onboard to the app? And right now we brought it like to,
if you want to join into a project once it's live, it's like less than 10 clicks.
So I think it's all about that at the moment, because it's already hard to onboard users. But
if you make it even harder with, yeah, with thousands of things you have to do, then we will not be successful in that part.
So, you know, Nick, one of the really basic things that like nobody does in the Web3 space is these like these overlay tutorials,
right, where you arrive at a website for the first time and you, you know, you get this tutorial that's sort of
highlighting each of the features on the homepage and walking you through the sort of step-by-step
and allowing you to sort of like click over and get like a deeper tutorial, right?
And most of the Web3 applications we get, they drop you on the homepage.
Then you have to figure out how to enter the app, because that's never really quite straightforward.
There's always like a logo in the top right corner or something where like the app and the website are two different things.
And then when you finally get into the app, you have to go through like that learning process of
figuring out what networks on, what wallets supported, how to fund that wallet,
you know, go through all of you jump through all these steps.
And from my sort of like mapping out of this problem for somebody that's just coming in fresh,
never touched crypto before. Like it's at least, at least 40 steps, um, to get you from sort of
interest to value, uh, in the array chain ecosystem right now. Right. If you've never used crypto before
and that's a challenge. And then if you, you, you know, you go beyond that, like at the very high
level, it could be like way longer. It could take you an hour or two hours.
Just to get started using a crypto application to like provide liquidity. Right. So if you,
you know, are looking at a ride decks and you say, Oh wow, 70% APR on this pair. I don't know what any
of this means. Like there's like a huge education curve where it's like, you know, you have to like
jump through hoops and really like learn about everything. It's learn about impermanent loss.
And I remember the first time that I ever went through that process of learning about
impermanent loss and thinking that I understood it. And then realizing that I had no idea what I was
talking about at all. And going back to the beginning, it's, it's a really serious challenge.
Um, and there are times even today where, you know, there's some common features and apps that,
you know, that we just have a really hard time understanding. You know, um,
I think Axelor is a great example of this, right? Like if you're coming into crypto for the first
time, or maybe you've been over on, on, um, on Ethereum before, and now you want to bring your
USTT over into the cosmos ecosystem and you end up with like Axel USTT and there's only like one or two
exchanges that support it. Uh, and you're trying to get to somewhere on a ride chain,
which doesn't support Axel USTT. Like, what do you do? Right? Like it's overwhelming and it ends
up being a deterrent for anybody that wants to go. And sometimes, you know, these routes,
like we're think we're being very like advanced in like, you know, in our, you know,
in our sort of development. And we're think that we're building like the greatest tech of the next
generation, but we're not thinking through that experience end to end from like our users
perspective. Right? So, um, whatever happens in the next six months between now and Bitcoin halving
has to focus not on like education, but on like simplicity. Uh, and one of the projects that I
thought was doing this really beautifully, um, is Crescent, right? Um, I see Crescent is launching a
project called flip the bird. Uh, and it's an options platform, like super short-term options
platform, but rather than sort of having to technically like learn the charts or learn the
tech or know any of that, you just kind of like put money in and it plays out like a video game
in front of you. Um, and that's it. Right. And it just like simplifies the user experience and makes
it like really easy. You know exactly what you have to game if you win or what you'll lose if you lose.
Uh, and it's not like a trading, it doesn't feel like a trading experience. So, um, yeah,
anyways, I'm, I'm, I'm rambling, but there was a lot of, you know, a lot of stuff in Cosmoverse that
was really exciting to me from that perspective. Like, I love that we're all like deep into the
tech, but like something like what Crescent is doing with flip the bird is just so cool to me
because it's just removing all of the complication of being like financially literate and understanding
what futures and options are and all of these different assets you're dealing with. And it
just makes it like this pixel game. Um, that's like super easy to play, but you can also earn from,
right? So anyways, Haas, I'll pass it to you. Yeah. So like, so there's a few, few things I wanted to
do. One, one thing I wanted to mention is like, I have nothing but like respect. And one of the
reasons I got into Cosmos and really felt comfortable in Cosmos and enjoyed my time.
And honestly, it's not just me being a fanboy right now is cause of Sonny Agarwal. And I do
honestly think he has the best intentions for Cosmos overall, not even just osmosis, but just,
he wants to see it work. And I think that I, I respect him for that. I've always had that vibe.
I've met him in person. I've had conversations with him. Yes. He wants, he wants osmosis to be
the best it can be. And a lot of the things we're talking about with like the cut, you know,
the user experience and all that, you know, from the simple fact that one of the things I always
enjoyed and have enjoyed is that you can go over there. And even technically, if you don't have
Osmos, like you can use pretty much any asset for gas. And I think that should be a standard
in all the chains, even a ride chain. Like, yeah, we could do in the background is we can swap
whatever you have that we, you know, like say injective or whatever you came over with only
injective and you, we would swap it in the background, you know, the, the, the, the dust
or gas or whatever, injective over to a ride. And then the ride gets, you know, the valid errors
or however that works technically, you know, like, I think that should be a standard because that's a
great user experience. You get less of this, like, well, where do I get this? Where do
I get that? How do I get this? How do I get that? And then that, that mitigates like new
user frustration because I see it all the time in all these channels. Like it could be a ride.
It could be, you know, it's not, it's not an osmosis anymore, but when I used to help out
with osmosis, that was one of the things that we would get all the time. Like, well, how do I get
Osmo? Cause I only have Adam right now or what, you know, it's like, that should be a standard
because it is annoying because people are used to like monolithic structures, you know,
they're used to always using ether gas or BNB or whatever. And, um, and, and we all know the
beauty of app chains and IBC and how much better and secure it is and just faster and scalable and
modular and all this other stuff. That's amazing about it. But yeah, I think I totally agree with
the, the new user should be, that is your customer. That is your, that's your, that's everything.
So like make it easier for them and people and, um, people really don't realize, but yeah,
having native stable coins is so imperative because of what you just discussed. It's like,
I remember when I first got into cosmos, I wrote this piece on medium on in medium.
It was like when I was very new bish to cosmos and I came over kind of was messing around with
Solana. And I remember when I first got into defy, I don't remember what it was,
or something on, um, on Solana, but I went over there and I was just amazed of all the acronyms in
front of just stable coins. There was so many wrapped this and that. And I was like, man,
there's no way anyone's going to understand it. Like there's all these prefixes or whatever. And
I can't even think of the word right now, but you know, like just these rap versions,
I'm like, this is just an eyesore. And I'd never want cosmos to be like that. And I,
I wrote that and we're not necessarily like that, but it's, it kind of was getting like that.
It was like, there's all these rap versions. Can we just get native? So people can just
send it freely and, and, you know, effortlessly throughout any of these apps that they want to
go to. Yeah. And we're starting to get there, but this was like, it's been like two years since I
wrote that. Yeah. And it's like, like, you know, the gravity, the gravity, USTT,
and then you are the gravity USCC and the axle USCC. Now you have native coming in.
Yeah, it's, it's really crazy. And then to add sort of confusion to the situation, like on a ride
chain, we don't even use prefixes, right? Because, uh, when, you know, for those of you that aren't
sort of aware of this, that are listening in, um, you know, we were launched, a ride chain was live
before osmosis was even launched. Right. Um, so like there were no stable coins, getting stable
coins into the ride chain ecosystem originally was like a direct pathway where it needed to come
over our bridge because there weren't even, there wasn't even bridging infrastructure at the time
that supported cosmos ecosystem. There was no, uh, gravity bridge. There was no, uh, ax, axlar,
right. We were like really predating a lot of the infrastructure in there. Right. So when we brought
our usdt into and uscc into the origin ecosystem, one of the things that we had to decide early
on was, well, do we want to put a prefix in front of it? And we just thought it was going to be
confusing for people because we didn't go through like a specific wrapping step, right? Our bridge
managed that all on its own. So it says usdt and uscc on our decks. Now, as we will find out very
quickly as we now have usdt native in the cosmos ecosystem and uscc native in the cosmos ecosystem,
um, you know, it's not composable, right? Like if people want to actually move their usdc
to a different chain through a ride chain, our uscc is not native. It is a wrapped version technically,
right? So we might need to actually add like an ow, like a ride wrapped usdc like label on our decks,
just to clear up and make sure there's no confusion for people that are moving money around,
right? Because right now, the pathways to move usdt out of a ride chain are pretty free, right? You
can move them back to the native networks that they're on either Tron, Binance Smart Chain or
Ethereum. Um, but you can't directly cash out like through a ride chain or through the IBC with that.
So, uh, it is a challenge. It's something that like needs a lot of, a lot of work, um, in general.
Uh, and, and we have sort of a lot of catching up to do, but you know, um, that's, you know, it's,
it's just part of maturing as an ecosystem while all of us, you know, have these different visions of
how we're building. Uh, and then, you know, all, you know, we have basically have like once a year to
get together and sync up and sort of come up with our common language and figure out how we can work
together. That was really what this was a great experience, you know, for was looking around and
sort of seeing like where we, where we are in comparison to where everybody else is and really
like figuring out what we need to do to improve that user experience.
Yeah, it's great. So, um, yeah, I'm looking forward to all that. And,
you know, like there's things in our ecosystem right now that I use, you know, like for Orchai,
right. You know, like I'm using it to, to lend them, right. I use it to borrow and lend and I'm
lending USDT and it's actually pretty good APYs right now. And you earn it in USDT. So it's like,
you're not even, you know, a lot of borrowing and lending, you typically just earn it and whatever
that token is, um, on their, on their platform. And you might earn a little bit of fees and things
like that. But like Orchai is doing a great job and I'm looking forward to hopefully maybe
injective gets on there and any future assets like Bitcoin and all of that because borrowing
and lending is very important. It's capital efficient. You can do things and it doesn't,
you know, it's great for like even tax purposes and things like that. And none of that against
financial advice, but that's what people do. And if you consider it an asset, like these,
these crypto assets, then, then you technically don't have to sell it because you can get USDT or
USDC or whatever sort of stable coin and then do whatever with it, put it in your bank. You can
buy stuff with it or whatever. And, um, we need to make that just the, just the thing in, in all
of crypto, especially in cosmos, having it freely to be able to move around these assets and not be
forced to be like, well, you know what? I have this stable coin, but I can't send it over there.
And you need to like figure out how to get this other stable coin. And it's just too much work
for people and they're not going to want to do it. Cause I mean, I'm in it and you know,
I know what I'm doing for the most part. And even for me, it's like, man, this is a pain in the ass.
Like I got to figure out how to like, get this over to this blockchain and do it, do this. And
I just know how people are and I don't blame them. They're not going to want to do stuff like that.
You're just going to want it super easy, but native just having native stable coins really just helps that
out. And people, I mean, at the end of the day, we always want to buy stuff. We need to buy stuff
for whatever reasons. And, and we, it's easier to just do it in stable coins. Cause you know,
like, Hey, it's a dollar and it's a dollar. It's not, well, today it's a dollar. And then tomorrow
it's, you know, a dollar 75. And then a week from now it's down to 85 cents because that's just how
the crypto market is. Cause we're super early still, but the tech is there. I mean, it's truly there in
cosmos. We just need to keep making it more simplistic for, for new users. You know, like
it's, it's, uh, that's the key. Like that should be everyone's vision. Not, well, let's build out,
you know, another decks, let's build out another, this, it should be like, well, let's use the
current infrastructure and just make it better. And then let's get new people in here and show them
why. And, and I do like the one thing you were talking about earlier about Kava. Like,
I do like the vision of kind of, um, um, court telling to institutions because that,
I mean, we obviously need institutions in here and get, get their money and show them
like, this is how we can add value to them. And I think that kind of works great like that too.
And just make it simplistic for everyone, whether that's just the, you know, community member.
Cause like the community is your project. Like I put a tweet out about it like yesterday.
I just like wrote that. Cause it truly is like your, your product is your community. It's your
users. It's your buyers. It's your sellers. It's your, it's every, it's your bloodline. So you need
to make it so, you know, it's great. It's just a good experience. It's all about, I always call it
customer experience. It's like, that's what it is. So like, make it best. And, and, and that's kind
of good. Like hearing your, your take on Cosmoverse. Cause I do sometimes think it's like
as communitarian and how connected we all are. I think sometimes, I mean, competition's always good,
but at some point it's like, man, we, we just need to like all work together and build the best
stuff and not always like, well, that's a good idea. Let me kind of take that and build something
similar, but better. It's like, yeah, I get that too. And I'm not going to complain about competition
and capitalism or whatever, but I don't know. That's kind of my rant. And like right now, you know,
just staying about kind of getting around a circle, but like Orchai is over 8% APR APY on,
on stable coin. And that's really good. And we just need to, and then I wanted to ask you,
we, we didn't touch on it. Cause like you've been so busy and we didn't do spaces the last
couple of weeks, I believe because of just, you know, you're just doing your thing and I respect
it. But AI right came out with their 2.0 version and I was messing around on it. I really found it to be
awesome to be honest with you. So I didn't know if you wanted to touch on that and kind of go into
AI right. Cause I think that's a product that people would actually use and it can benefit them.
So, yeah, I, yeah, let me talk about it. So I want to talk about it really, I'll talk about it real
quick, but I also want us to say before I talk about AI right that, you know, part of the, the niche
that I see that AI right fills that a lot of people in the space are missing right now as like,
you know, as you know, technologists, as you know, entrepreneurs in the crypto space,
one of the things that we should always ask ourselves, uh, is sort of like, why are we not
seeing like familiar categories of technology available and bringing revenue into the crypto
space? Right. So right now there are really not a whole lot of like software as a service companies
in crypto, uh, which means that there are, there's not like a demand for the technology in that way.
And maybe that's the way, because we're not packaging it in a way that that technology is
adding value to businesses or directly to consumers, um, is able to wrap that up in a way that you
really can understand and consume and feel like you are paying for the value of that. Um, and again,
that's sort of where like some of the privacy products really can like stand out to me. Like I
love, I like like the idea of composable privacy coming from secret or Nomata or from, or from, um,
or from Oasis. Right. And being able to tap into that and, and really like have that value available
for both institutional and private customers. Right. Um, uh, file storage is another one,
which like, you know, file coin and, you know, any of these others are weave or any of these other
protocols, they're, they're delivering a value. It's competitive value. Uh, same thing with a cosh,
right. And being able to provide sort of compute and file storage and all of that, um, cloud services,
that's like very real, like all of those things are so strong and don't get enough sort of cred
in our ecosystem right now. Uh, but they are sort of the game changers. Uh, and now sort of shifting
over for a brief second to talk about AI, right? Yes. Their vision, our version two of that application
launched very recently. And the focus on that is aggregating generative AI models from all over the
world and from a bunch of different developers and adding on the benefit of, of web three for both,
uh, ownership of the actual, uh, assets themselves, the underlying assets and licensing for those assets
through our platform, but also to monetize prompts, um, which is a whole new sort of ball game,
right? The idea that you can take these, like this human input for this AI model and extract the
value from it and crystallize that on chain and then, you know, monetize that moving forward.
Like that's really exciting. And it's something that hasn't been done in either the web two or web
three world as of yet. Right. So, um, it's a very clean product. It's still probably got some bugs in
it. So if you head over to AI, right.io, feel free to like, give it a, give it a try. Um, but understand
that there's probably going to be some things you need to work out. Uh, one of the big things that I
think really was bringing value to, you know, we talked about sort of single sign on like email,
social sign ons earlier. Like, uh, that's a, that's a big part of what AI rights doing, right?
Like saying that you don't have to jump through all the hoops to be able to just get to the value,
right? You want to use mid journey right today. And if you want to use mid journey, you have to go
over to, um, discord, create a discord account, go over to the mid journey website, create, link your
accounts between discord in that account, and then enter your credit card information into a product
that you've just learned about on the internet 20 minutes ago. Uh, and then you have to figure out
what price tier you want, $30, $50 a month. Well, AI rights, taking away all of that challenge and is
allowing you to tap into all of the generative AI models you want with your email address on platform
and you get to use them for free. And then there's going to be a sort of a premium tier
later for you to come in if you want to sort of own and monetize that content. But, uh, yeah,
it's been, I'm, I'm, I'm excited about it. I think that it's a great platform and, you know,
and it's, it's very easy to use. So people should have a great time. I highly recommend that everybody
jumps out there and gives it a try. I'm not sure if it's me, but I think you're getting rugged.
Am I rugged? Can you hear me?
I can hear you. I can hear you, but there's some background noise, but it's okay.
Yeah. New York is loud and annoying.
I see. I see. Yeah. I quickly wanted to jump on that because what you mentioned is that there is
not, uh, like software as a service and we need to listen to the users, but we also need to listen
to like bigger corporations, what they need. Uh, for example, confi in reality, like that you have
those privacy features and not everything is like a totally, uh, visible for everyone. And also maybe we
need to compare our products with products, which are like normal web tool products. Like if you
log into your bank account, you don't want to like use a wallet or write down a private key or something
like that. So you need to make it as easy as possible and maybe, yeah, we should just stick to email
addresses and stuff like that. And for us, it was also always very important to listen to the community
so they can tell us what they need. And currently the notion is that they need like those easy onboardings.
And I think, uh, blockchain and the whole space, they will really focus on that in the future.
And also, uh, your, you wants to come to a right Jay or right Jane, but before we do that, we really need
to hear from the community, what they like, what they want. And, uh, currently we have a proposal up.
I think I will quickly drop it into the comments and it would be so great to hear from the users and the
community and the ecosystem, what they think about it, what can we do better? How can we like really
make or create value in the ecosystem? And I think once we solve that issue, um, with, okay, how can we
really, um, fill those needs and really solve these issues that we can, um, easily grow and become like
bigger in a, in a really fast paced. So I will quickly drop that link and yep, it would be great
to get some feedback on that one. Yeah. And then I'll, I'll pin it, uh, I'll pin it up on top to
little highlights. Uh, can Tyree, can you hear me now? Yeah, I think I, I got you. Can you hear me?
Yeah. Yeah. That's why I disconnected you guys. It seems like it always works if I just disconnect
the people and remove them from speaker, then just get them back up. I don't know. There's just
anytime someone has like a speaker has a wifi issue or something, it seems like one of the speakers
always can't hear one another, whether that's the host to the speaker, speaker to speaker, it's kind
of annoying, but it seems like that's the fix. So it's just for anyone out there ever, if that ever
happens, it's usually the, the cure to it. So, but, um, no, man, like this has been a great
conversation. It's a, yeah, it's been, it's been awesome. I, um, you know, I, I really, you know,
again, I, I really love what UOIO is doing and I really am excited to sort of like, um, get back
into the flow of talking about those guys joining our ecosystem. I know that you guys recently
started building on stay network as well. Um, we've got sort of a lot of projects building
on chain in our ecosystem right now, uh, that are going to be sort of launching in the next few
months. And I think that, you know, you guys are bringing a huge value, uh, and infrastructure. So,
you know, let's, let's get that conversation going again with the community and really start to,
you know, dig into that and see if we can, um, see if we can get that to a governance proposal in the
next month or so, you know, that would be really excellent. Uh, Haas, we should plan, uh, a separate
sort of AMA Twitter space, uh, directly together so we can just focus on sort of getting the
community's questions over to Nick and letting everybody sort of reply to that. That would be
great. Nick, you down for that? Yes, man, that would be amazing. We just need that feedback to
listen to the community and they will tell us what to do. Yeah, it sounds great. I mean,
we could maybe even do that some, at some point next week and, um, you know, get after
it or the week, you know, the following week or something. We can, we can figure it out.
We can figure out a time for that. For sure. Yeah, man, it's, it's, it's, uh, there's a lot going
and I think I'm not sure I didn't get to watch the videos or anything of cause it would be nice
to have, I don't know, I'm sure they probably did or will do it's like short clips and have
interviews and just have like LDRs on it because I know there's a lot of great ideas and I'm
interested to see, and I'm very interested to see what the, cause I know there's a hackathon
afterwards and I seen that Sonny put something out that cause he's been a part of so many,
I mean, how he's actually, that's how he built osmosis was through a hackathon. So he said
that he believes that this was the best hackathon that he's ever been a part of or heard of
throughout crypto. So, you know, it's going to be interesting to see if there's any great
use cases that people are building right now. I know I was just a judge, uh, for a cautious
hackathon and there were some really good ideas. And, and I like, I like my focal point, as
much as I love defy and all that, I'm just, I'm, I want products that people, people use
because my background, I've said this so many times, even on this space and throughout other
spaces, uh, you know, I'm an accountant and finance, and I've been doing that for going on
a decade now. And the bottom line is most people, they just don't care about finances, even, you
know, well-off people, they just want to get their money and get a return and be hands-off. And so
that doesn't really bring as much value to this space. Like it doesn't, it doesn't obviously,
you know, we eat it, but we also just need products. Like I would, you know, I know it
sounds funny, but we wouldn't, the right chain has QP, which is like a day app. It's like stuff
that people actually use, you know, like that's how you get to space to have massive options to
build game assets, social networks, stuff that people actually use. And that's what I've been
really excited for. And kind of, it's a whole Luna and USD came down is like, I'm looking for
products that the average person's just going to want to use. And also the other side of it is
they don't need to know how all of it works. It just works and then it's easy for them. And
we're not there yet. I think we're, we're closing that gap, like substantially
closing that gap since I've been in this space over the last two plus years. We're, we're
getting there, but we're still not there, but I, I understand it's a, it's a long game and
I think we'll get there. Hopefully we get there before other, but yeah, I mean, if anyone
have any closing thoughts before we kind of wrap it up, yeah, man, I think we will get
there definitely because we've been here so long and, uh, if someone will figure that
out and I think it's, it will be us because, uh, yeah, it's also hard to just come into like
a space and realize those problems fast enough. So I think we already know the pain points
and then it's now for us to solve them. Yeah. And then, um, I usually don't ask this
ever. I don't think I really ever do anyone, you know, if you can share this, um, because
I think it was very valuable. There was a lot of good information in it that can be beneficial
to people. You know, we talked a lot about tech and ideas and like a caught, like a quick
little Cosmoverse recap. And it seems like there's a lot of good energy there. And it's
just imperative that people, you know, keep, keep learning, growing and, and doing their
thing in this space because, you know, at sometimes it seems like it could get dark, but there's
a lot going on. And I know it's human nature always keep looking at prices and it's sad because
I mean, that's, you know, it is what it is, but I've been invested in tech and been around
tech for a long time. It's just how, it's just how it works, especially early technologies.
It just takes time and, um, you know, not financial advice. I think we're all going to benefit in
the long run, as long as you can stay in the game, so to speak, and keep learning and growing
and finding value and adding value to the space, which I feel, I honestly believe everyone
can regardless of your, um, your backgrounds and whatever you're doing in your life. So
just keep doing that. And I always appreciate everyone that tunes in and listens to the
recording. So I always want to say thank you for that as well. And yeah, I mean, this has
been a great conversation looking forward to next week and during the week, Nick, we'll
set something up and we'll conversate maybe in a call before, before we, you know, figure
out the space and appreciate you and appreciate Tyree, man. Tyree is like complete shout out.
Not many people in the space that I'm like, that dude's a grinder and I respect it. And, uh,
Tyree is one of those people. So, you know, I think that our ride chain is in good hands
with, with someone that's just a pure grinder like himself. So I appreciate that too.
Yeah. And, you know, it's been a, it's been a great, it's been a great few months here.
You know, um, we've been, uh, we've been growing and our community has been growing. I've definitely
feel the vibe in the community and, uh, you know, obviously we've made some great partnerships
in the past couple of months and I look forward to sort of continuing to spread our presence
throughout, you know, the, uh, the Cosmos ecosystem and beyond, you know, where we're going back
to the drawing boards a little bit with like looking at the user experience problem. Right.
And where I think we're all sort of thinking from the same perspective. Um, can you hear
me, Haas? Did I get lost here?
No, no, you're good. You're good.
Yeah. So, I mean, that's, that's kind of it, man. Like just, uh, I don't know if I lost
you again, Tyree or not, but yeah, it's just, um, I'm going to go try to rest up. It's been
a long, long grind for me too. And sadly missed cause I was a reverse, but hopefully that doesn't
happen again. And I get to actually go next year and get other events and meet you wonderful
people out there. And, and, uh, man, I'm always here to help. So just feel free to reach
Yeah. Uh, I think the bear market is the best like, uh, time to just build connections and,
um, just keep on building. And I think, uh, Tyree and Haas, what you've been doing lately
is just amazing. You keeping the community together. And, uh, thank you so much for, for
the work and the, these weekly spaces. Thank you so much, guys. It's been a pleasure. Have
Yeah, you too, man. Have a good one. Take care. Take care of Nick. Take care of Tyree.