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AI Lounge Talk: AI×Bitcoin Synergy
Recorded: March 20, 2025 Duration: 1:40:09Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion, industry leaders explored the intersection of AI and Bitcoin, highlighting partnerships, innovative projects, and the growing trend of leveraging technology to optimize mining efficiency. Key insights included the launch of AI-enabled wallets, the potential for AI to enhance energy use in mining, and the importance of community engagement in driving growth within the crypto ecosystem.
Full Transcription
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Mae'r cyfle yn ystod y cyfle. Mae'r cyfle yn ystod y cyfle. Oh, thank God. Thank God. Thank God everybody. Welcome, welcome. I'm sorry, I have a slight technical difficulty just now,
but I wanna welcome everybody.
My name is Stefan.
Today we have a really exciting, amazing spaces
talking about AI and Bitcoin synergy.
We'll be talking about how AI might help Bitcoin
and how Bitcoin mining can be improved with artificial intelligence.
In a moment's time, as we are waiting for everyone to come on board, we are going to
be allowing the speakers to come on and sort of introduce themselves.
I usually give them a really short introduction and then let them do a better job at the introduction.
But you know, I want to introduce one by one.
If you're a speaker and you know that you have been invited,
please request to speak.
Also as well today, we are giving away 10 USD
for every good question.
So if you are a listener
and you have been listening carefully for the first one hour,
if you have a good question to ask,
make sure it's not AI generated
come up with a question and you can walk away with some free internet money free
internet US dollars also as well we do have some requests from people who have
been the last spaces who hasn't been allocated the free internet money yet
please feel free to message us I will personally respond to those messages and airdrop
the tokens that are supposed to be given to you.
Alright, if not, I would like to give some time for each speaker to speak first.
I'd like to invite Aaron up first to do an introduction
of himself. Aaron is the guy who has been putting all of these spaces together.
I really, deep down from the bottom of my heart, really appreciate this guy.
Not only does he push every single space, he also do real events, push for hackathons and connect
people. People who knows how to create depth on the ICP platform, people who understands the ICP
platform, people who want to learn, he's the one who connect them all. Aaron, would you like to come
up and say a big hi? Hi everyone.
I'm Aaron from ICP Hub Singapore.
And tonight I'm really, really happy to have,
you know, so many fantastic OGs and, you know,
leaders of the ICP community involved here.
Definitely Kyle, I'm so glad to have you here.
Herbert also, you know, thanks for making time for us.
Eric, which is a founder of Satoshi Club. know, thanks for making time for us. Eric, which is the founder of
Satoshi Club. Eric, thanks so much for your support, you know, and supporting us through, you know,
major events like token last year. Also, Odin, is that Bob? I'm not sure, but Odin, you've been
fantastic and, you know, you're the reason why, you know, we have this space here. And Omiti, with cross-chain technology,
that's being used by so many projects
and yet not highlighted often enough.
Yeah, so looking forward to the session.
Thank you, Stephen.
Thank you, Aaron.
All right, first up we have Kyle.
Kyle is in data analytics.
He's a Web3 dreamer. Kyle, would you like
to unmute yourself, do a sound test with us so that everyone can hear you, do a short
introduction and maybe one thing that you're excited about between AI and Bitcoin. Go ahead,
Kyle, you can unmute yourself. Oh, Kyle, can you hear me?
Hello.
Yeah, it's not.
Okay, we can hear you go.
Yeah, go ahead.
Hello.
Hello.
I'm the audience funds community.
I'm a Chinese community leader.
I like all the fun and I'm very happy in here.
That is the Hubbot and the Chire is very happy.
Yeah, I think many AI agents coins are
high-paying created on Audion Fund like Confucius,
like Freya, Liquite token and many things that happened in the EVM will happen on Audion Farm again.
So I think we should pay more attention, focus on the Audion Farm. But now we need more liquid. Now we need more liquid and
need everyone
pay more focus on the audience.
Hello Herbert, hello Kyle.
I think the audience will make
the Bitcoin ecosystem great again.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you, Odin. Very interesting to be hearing from you.
I think we always like to hear from our brothers from China,
our Chinese brothers.
Very happy to hear and I'm very sure that you have an insight and a perspective that will be invaluable to us because, you know, Saya sangat gembira bahawa anda mempunyai pendapat dan perspektif yang akan menjadi
berharga kepada kami kerana anda telah memanjakan Bitcoin dan menjadi salah satu
sokongan paling berdekatan dalam ekosistem kripto, DeFi dan blockchain.
Saya sangat teruja bahawa anda datang ke sini hari ini. Terima kasih kerana bercakap.
Sekali lagi, Carl, jika anda you wanna come on, do let me know.
I'm gonna go to Eric first.
I first met Eric in Singapore at an ICP events,
Chain Fusion, he's a creative director.
He's very into new technologies to improve systems
and empowering communities.
Eric, could you unmute yourself so that we can hear you
and do a sound test?
Hi everybody, hello Stephen.
Thank you for inviting me to the space ICP team.
I'm Eric Alexandre. I've been in the space for more than 10 years actually.
I was an early adopter since 2014.
I was there at the pre-seller of Ethereum and I've seen the space evolving.
I've been involved with Native Capital, which is a web-free startup venture fund.
I'm also a founding member of Club Satoshi, which is a community of web-free enthusiasts,
where we support many conferences across Asia and all Europe and the US, such as the 2049 consensus.
And also organized large conferences such as Bitcoin Impact and our other organizers to do conferences.
So the next one will be during doing token 2049 in Singapore in partnership
with Susi and Access Malaysia. So involving a space, different new technology, looking at AI for
a while now, invested in the first AI trading bot for copy trading on Binance and over agents
at CMX and doing a lot of exciting stuff and'm looking forward to this panel and share and learn from you guys. Cheers.
Cheers, Eric. Thank you for that wonderful introduction. I think that you are invaluable. I think you're very grassroots in terms of events and technologies and really helping investors and projects do their thing.
Thank you so much for being here today. I'm looking forward to your insights. Herbert, you're the next person I'd like to introduce. Herbert ICP, he's the GM, the General Manager
at DFINITY, Web3 investor and investor list. Herbert, would you like to unmute yourself? Say hi.
Hey, sure. Hey, thank you, Steven and Aaron for the invite. Thank you, ICP Hub Network.
Hello, everyone. This is Herbert. I'm the General Manager for Asia from Dfinity Foundation. So I guess Dfinity needs
probably no introduction on this particular call. So I've been around with Dfinity for almost four
years, which is pretty, it's really, you know, I can't tell you what an exciting ride that has been.
And, you know, I just came from another Twitter space is a moments ago where I told a very,
I think a very somewhat frustrating audience
that the best is yet to come.
A lot of folks in the industry are not exactly excited
by all the BTC related news.
They feel to some extent the battle has been lost.
And, but I think that's the exact opportunity for ICP
because what ICP is capable of, because, you know,
we are the only blockchain that can handle
our smart contract and handle native cryptocurrencies.
And we can run a DeepSeek R0 model
inside the Kinesis smart contract.
Nobody else can do that. So I think this is really the best time for ICP. So, you know,
very looking forward to sharing what's going on in Asia, what's coming next in the world of
ICP on this very interesting topic, AI and Bitcoin. Thank you, Stephen.
Thank you, Herbert. Looking forward to hearing from you. Next we have
Harpreet. Harpreet is no stranger. Harpreet Singh is the founder of multiple projects. He has been
around with our ICP spaces and at events. In fact, his knowledge base for BTC is one of the
the most profound one. Harpreet, would you like to unmute yourself, say hi to everyone,
and so they can do a sound test as well. Go ahead.
Definitely. Hello, everybody.
Thanks for having me here.
Are you able to hear me clearly?
Yes, we can.
Thank you. Awesome.
Go ahead, introduce yourself.
Definitely. Yeah. It's been over a decade,
me doubling into crypto and blockchain and AI.
I've served in various positions,
as been introduced earlier.
I'm the president of Access Blockchain Association Malaysia.
At the moment, I'm serving for the second term as the president.
Also at the same time, I run multiple ventures.
I have events company called InterValues,
I'll share more about it later.
Also my own venture, which is called Ica.
It's actually an agentic AI infrastructure for DeFi.
We had been talking a lot about DeFi and DeFi AI,
and all the new emerging terms,
but nobody's talking about the infrastructure.
I noticed that that's a position to be served.
That is my next new
venture but other than that I'll be costly touching on my experience as we go in those AMA. Back to you, Ben.
Thank you, bro. Thank you, Harpreet. I think it's really interesting that you just point out like
infrastructure is important because I always think that it's like the builders who are
looking for the infrastructure to support the functions they are about to build. I think there should be
more people building the servers, the things that support what we need. Yeah, so the very,
very interesting take on that. Looking forward to hearing about your projects as well. Is
Sheldon here? Sheldon from Omniti? If you are, please go ahead and unmute yourself.
Do a better introduction than I am doing right now from the Omniti network.
Go ahead. Omnichain Hub.
Is Sheldon here?
Yes. Hi, it's me on the Omniti account.
Thanks so much for having us.
Hi, Sheldon.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, go ahead.
So I've been active in blockchain and cryptocurrency for more than 10 years, cyber security more
than 15.
Very proud of our work here at Omniti Network that's been the result of the last six years
of light client development.
Even though we've only been known as Omniti Network for two years, a lot of the GitHub
repository you'll see are many years of blockchain-like client work.
So very proud of that. Currently we're focused on
tokenized UTXO environment and orchestrated PSPT environment known as the Runes Execution
Environment or REE. That's what our new Bitcoin DEX rich swap is built on. We just took that open
source a couple of days ago. You can see that pinned to the account here. And also we've been
doing some heavy
refinement on the multi-chain bridge and looking for some new projects that are going to use the
tooling there. So we've got a lot going on but I think that's the the shortest way I can say it.
Thank you Sean, I'm looking forward to asking you some questions.
Is Natalie here? If Natalie is here, then we can go ahead
and introduce her. If not, we are going to actually do a really quick housekeeping. Guys, we are going
to do this a lot more consistently. Do remember to follow all of our speakers today from Omniti
Network to Aaron to ICP up Nigeria who's here with us today, to Eric, to Herbert, to Harpreet, to Odin Fan.
I think Natalie is not on,
but I think we are just gonna begin.
Also as well guys, we are giving away 10 USD
for every good question, good human question
that you can ask.
So listen carefully to the discussions and the updates
and the news from these power,
you know, these guys
are like the OGs, right?
How many of us can say that we were here for more than 10 years?
How many of us can say that we were here at the coin offering of Ethereum, right?
So these guys are really the most respected people of the space.
I'm super stoked to hear from them.
So if you have a question at the end, you can request to speak as an audience.
You will be granted some time to ask the questions
and then you will get 10 USD for asking the question.
If not, I think I'm super excited to just open the floor
for news first, because today we're gonna be talking
about AI and Bitcoin mining.
But I like to like give the floor to anyone who wants to talk.
I think somebody said just now they want to talk about
some new thing that they are focusing on or
some exciting news that you've seen
recently in the last week or even today.
This is a very casual talk.
Please feel free to cut me off,
say hi again and just ask the question
or engage and then contribute.
Anyone would like to start with some exciting things that they're doing or any of the news
that is recent? Yeah, hi. I'd like to share, so I'm part of this network school. So network school
is run by Balaji and we're the second cohort now in 4CT, which is an artificial island just off Singapore.
And so, you know, one of the highlights, obviously, for the attendees is Balaji's lecture, right?
So usually that's once a week, and he has like a special guest coming in from the US and Europe and other far away places once a week.
So in fact, he actually shared on the topic of AI and blockchain in the last lecture.
And he said something quite interesting that I found quite interesting. It said that, OK, so between US and China and this AI war,
US will lead in centrally trained AI and centrally deployed AI.
So you're talking about cloud or grok or open chat.
And this is something that is unavoidable because, you know,
the US government has basically placed some sort of a restriction or sanction
which prevents Chinese companies from, you know, getting like the best, you know,
AI processors or GPUs, right? So, yeah, but how China is fighting back is,
China is gonna focus on open source models like DeepSeq.
So these models are centrally trained,
but they're deployed in a decentralized manner.
And the idea is that China would want this to be deployed
to as many people as possible.
That means operating DeepSeq model on, let's say, a local machine.
And these people would sort of try to implement whatever their specialty is
and whatever industry it is.
So China could have 10,000 or 100,000 highly specialized models
that's based on this open source.
Yeah, and that for me is really interesting
because I've been trying to link the capabilities of ICP.
And now it's very apparent because ICP has already deployed
DeepSec model fully on chain in a Kinesis Smart Contract.
And that means that for all this, you know,
10,000 or a hundred thousand, you know,
this DeepStake LLM or other models that, you know,
may be adopted by the industry.
That means that the moment they are confident
that their AI is up to par to perform a certain function
or to offer a certain service,
then they can have the option to actually deploy it on ICP.
Yeah, so this is like the big link
that I made during this week.
So just to kick off the discussion.
Fantastic.
Actually, I've seen Natalie in here right now,
CMX agent Natalie, would you like to say hi?
And then just say hi to everyone
and introduce yourself a little bit.
Okay, hi everybody, can you all hear me? Yes, hi, I'm Natalie. So I'm currently the CMO and co-founder of CNX Agents. So we are a fully automated AI agent for crypto and money exchange.
We are mostly facilitating P2P and OTC trading via bots and messaging platforms. So I think the wider contribution they can have to this conversation is really about
at a high level, right, or at least what makes sense for us is mostly kind of like texting
bot via like Telegram or any of your messaging apps to help you buy Bitcoin.
So for me personally, my fundamental belief is I am bullish on Bitcoin.
I always have been. oleh Bitcoin. Jadi untuk saya, secara peribadi, saya adalah penyakit di Bitcoin. Saya selalu pernah berada di sini. Saya tidak begitu awal sebagai banyak penyanyi Steam kita di ruang ini, tetapi
saya menikmati mengekalkannya sebagai sebuah aset. Jadi, agen CMX akan dapat menguasai semua
jenis perkhidmatan ini dalam masa depan. Tetapi sekarang, kami terutama memfokuskan diri OTC
untuk menguruskan. Jadi, ya, saya sangat gembira dapat bercakap tentang ini dan dapat Right now, we're mostly focusing on OTC deal sourcing. So yeah, I'm very glad to be able to speak on this topic
and get to meet all these really amazing OG folks
in the space.
So yeah, hi everybody.
Let me know if you're interested to chat more
and enjoy the space.
Yeah.
That's really interesting.
Last week, we actually talked about this.
Last week, we talked about having a conversation with AI Itu sangat menarik. Sebelum ini, kita bercakap tentang apa yang kita lakukan. Kami bercakap tentang AI dan mempunyai alat untuk meminta alat untuk melakukan transaksi.
Saya rasa itu akan sangat menarik. Adakah saya salah? Adakah itu yang anda lakukan?
Alat yang dapat melakukan transaksi untuk orang yang bercakap dengan LLM?
Ya, anda betul. Jadi, ini akan berlaku pada phase 2 atau phase 3
pembangunan, tetapi ini adalah yang kita bekerja untuk.
Bagus, sangat teruja kerana saya mempunyai banyak perempuan yang ingin membeli
Bitcoin tetapi mereka menghubungi saya setiap hari dan saya
menemui anda sangat sukar untuk membantu mereka. Jika ada LLM yang boleh membantu dengan ini,
ia akan sangat bagus. Terima kasih kerana melihat that could help with this, it would be absolutely fantastic right. Thank you for that, Anne-Louis.
Looking forward to hear from you. Thank you. Anyone from the floor, again this is very casual,
you can cut me off at any time. I'm a rambler, go ahead and cut me off at any time. Tell me about
what are you excited about this past few days or any news or even your own projects? Hapy,
even your own projects.
Hapy, would you like to talk about the one
would you like to talk about the one that you said you wanted to talk about?
that you said you wanted to talk about?
Yeah, definitely.
Is there a project you want to, yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, so this is my observation from over the years here.
So to give a bit of context and background,
I actually, before I got into blockchain,
I was actually looking into researching
into multi-agent systems.
So basically today we are generally trying to make
a agentic work, trying to make
a singular agent functional and workable.
The next phase from it will become multi-agents where you have
multiple agents communicating, coordinating,
collaborating on certain tasks
or certain goal to achieve it together.
That's the next phase of
Agentech post what we have today. Today is more in the beginning phase of trying to figure out
how LLMs and learnability and growth of these agents will work. So we are in early phases
right now but there's a lot of exciting things to come.
So I was researching in those phase back in 2017
as a master student.
And I just noticed one big issue with it.
I felt like centralized AI or centralized
agentic technologies is going to be a disaster for the world
because there's going to be too much of centralized power,
some decentralized access to data and centralized access for the world because there's going to be too much of centralized power, some centralized
access to data and centralized access to even funds and liquidity.
And it's also a security threat.
So looking at that, at that point, it made sense to actually jump into blockchain to
something maybe what even Aaron was saying earlier about what Balaji is mentioning,
what America and everybody is trying to do right now
is focused mainly on technologies
that are kind of centralizing the whole ecosystem itself.
And when I noticed that this is gonna be a disaster
for the future, for the freedom of people,
I felt like a decentralized tech,
a decentralized ecosystem has to emerge.
But these are all fears of the future.
But today, even an agent thing that works fully,
it's an exciting thing.
What are the problems of today that we want to solve?
Today, if you really look into the crypto and blockchain space,
we're talking about DeFi AI,
but you're not seeing as many emerge quickly.
Many people are trying to build something,
but they actually lack the ground infrastructure
on how to actually execute and build these things.
When we talk about DeFi AI,
today if let's say you wanna build a bot
that can swap for you or a bot that can trade for you
or a bot that can actually go up and do transactions on your behalf.
There's a lot of risk factors that has to be one to be considered,
but at the same time also,
where's the infrastructure for it?
When you want to do a swap for example or trade,
you need to do every single thing manually, or you have to do a swap for example or trade, you need to do every single thing manually.
You have to do a lot of integration manually,
and you need a lot of more manual steps to be added
into each of the agents where it is not very scalable.
That's the reason you see there's a lot of
discussion or projects that are working on,
but there's not many in market yet, right?
They're still in early phases of trying to do things
manually integrating each one of them.
And it will take some time
before we actually really see a defy boom.
So I think on the infrastructure side,
there is lacking of understanding of what
the human intent might be or the user intent might be.
How can the agents have its sets of guardrails that it doesn't do
more or something wrong with the funds
or with the permissions that have been granted to it,
and at the same time ensuring that it doesn't go beyond its intended actions.
A lot of those part in DeFi AI is still being figured out,
and that is not area that I noticed that getting into traditional DeFi market space
will be like building a cart for
horses when you know cars are on the corner.
There's going to be new technologies that will be disrupting.
Maybe a year and half from now or two years down from now,
we mostly going to be start looking into using basic agentics for DeFi.
But five years down the road,
I don't think anybody wants to go
manually click the swap button anymore.
Because once we are comfortable enough with a new experience,
it's very difficult for people to go back.
Just like how you're used to using Uber today or Grab.
It's very difficult for you to go back and haul for a taxi,
or you have to go back and haul for a taxi, or you'll have to switch
back to the previous wave once the behavior has changed.
Similarly, right now, the way we use web,
the way we use our services online,
is about to come towards another change where you can delegate to a computer,
to an AI, to actually do things on your behalf,
or carry out things on your behalf,
observe things on your behalf,
respond on your behalf.
When you go towards that kind of an era,
it might also be looking into doing finance on your behalf.
You need to ensure you have the right tools to enable
decisions, to enable this agentic future,
but at the same time protect
what is necessary. Yeah, so those are some of my points that I wanted to put up.
I think that's really an excellent point. I think there was one time when we really questioned,
like, you know, as things are getting easier and easier for the average man, our softwares and,
you know, computers are becoming more and more complex
to build. I think as it gets easier for the average Joe, it gets more difficult to build.
But with AI, I think this is an interesting fork in our discussion because now that we
can just instruct the AI on certain levels of executions, we could save a ton of time
and we could execute on things that we might not even need to know first per se, but we level yang penting untuk dikawal, kita boleh menjaga banyak masa dan mengakui perkara yang
kita mungkin tidak perlu tahu, tetapi kami mengajar AI untuk melakukannya.
Ada sesiapa yang lain? Oh, adik-beradik dari Nigeria. Biar kami memberi mereka
pemberitahuan hari ini. Bagi yang tidak tahu, ICB Hub mempunyai banyak hub lokal.
Saya dari hub Singapura. Adik-beradik dari Nigeria ini. Pergi ke sana dan menghadiri diri. don't know, ICP hubs have very, very many local hubs. So I'm from Singapore Hub. This is our
brothers from Nigeria. Go ahead, unmute yourself. If you want to contribute, go ahead and say hi.
Hi, everyone. Thank you very much for giving me the floor. And of course, it's a very great privilege
to be part of the ICP Global Hubs Network. The conversation has been very interesting so far.
I just want to bring down the context of the perspective to we Africans
Nigerians, Kenyans, South Africans, everybody there are part of the audience to this amazing space edition that we are having.
It's quite amazing to notice that the fusion of blockchain and e-high
not only that being theoretical and of course we several other innovative features of the ICP, you know,
how they re-imagined how AI models can operate
on the blockchain infrastructure.
And also specifically with the recently enabled
fully-aunching AI inference models.
You know, it's a very great privilege to be witness
in these amazing milestones.
And while we also know that ICP is making waves,
you know, trends across the global network,
but it's also getting trapped in Africa
with developers in like Nigeria, Kenya, South Africa, Ghana,
cutting across majorly every aspect of Africa
experimenting with the decentralized clouds
to host AI tools and similar,
maybe doubt resistance to censorship.
Now it's a game changer for many regions in Africa
where centralized tech giants often
fail to prioritize the local needs.
We look at Africa with approximately or probably
even more than 60% of the continent's population
under 25 years of age.
Quite a young, tech savvy people with over 500 million lacking
reliable electricity.
So we see it as a very, you know, a great opportunity to have
solutions like a high-optimized microgrid mining, ICP-osted decentralized AI, how they could turn
challenges into global opportunities. So here in Nigeria, we tend to imagine several solutions,
and with this I'm also speaking to most of the Africans in the audience so that we can, you know,
all together look at these potential opportunities
How the likes of Nigerians floater?
We've can use ICP to tokenize the high verified remittances or even farmers in Ghana, you know supply chain
Was it called sectors in South Africa and so on and leverage Bitcoin back down to fund solar powered?
Yeah, I with our models, you know, but then of course the conversation isn't just about Africa, right?
I just want to throw in that particular perspective or the context bringing it out to Africa so that everybody can be on the same page
You know, it's just about mostly about the centralized systems, you know how they can ship African pragmatism
You know how they can answer the audience global questions like for instance
How a high can cut Bitcoin's energy use, you know by 40 percent worldwide and so on and so forth. Or even more importantly, outcome protocols like ITP scale,
local innovations into global standards.
So once again, it's been an amazing pleasure, you know, being part of this conversation.
And I thank you very much for having me once again.
Thank you, Alperus from Africa. Like I said just now, guys,
ICP hubs, we have many local hubs.
So you just find the one nearest to you, connect with
them, they have resources, they have people, they have documents that you can read up on,
they have people who know how to build, they have people who want to build, if you are
interested in funding projects, great ideas, go ahead and connect at the local level.
Thank you, our brothers from Nigeria.
Sheldon, you have something to say, go ahead, unmute yourself.
Yeah, yeah, I just wanted to jump in based on what Harpreet was saying earlier,
because I think he's absolutely right. And I think that some of the projects that are working now on
different products, they see this, you know, coming. So when you're setting up automation
in a business environment, usually you want to try to plan in advance to make resources
slim, available, you know, anticipating that automation that you're going to set up.
At Omnity Network, we've recently open-sourced RichWAP, like I mentioned, but we also have a
lot that can be done through HTTP. I think part of this is inspired by the ICP stack in general,
which is moderately unique when it comes to handling HTTP. But
HTTP is what powers our web browsers. It powers the majority of mobile applications that we
use. It's a very, very well appreciated standard. It has some bloat. It has some silly things
about a teapot written into the protocol and all kinds of strange things from back in the
day. But it's very, very ubiquitous. It's everywhere.
HTTP is right.
So I think that there's one idea for builders out there that can be useful
about this, which is that if you want AI or LLM to interact openly with your
application on behalf of a user, it makes sense to make the operation of your app
available without a paywall, without wallet
login in some cases.
It doesn't mean that you need to necessarily have a completely identity list or on reaching
the app setting and identity kind of like weird structures.
It's not like that.
It's like if you can allow people utility from your product just through HTTP, then they don't have to manage an API.
They don't have to go to somebody else
who's a data provider or an interface for their tooling.
You can just have an LLM that learns
or already knows how to send a web request
and then gets a response in that web request
that is used for automation.
For example, if you wanted to trade runes back and forth,
but you also wanted to trade, excuse me, assets on Solana, then there's no reason why you couldn't
tell an LLM to go do both of those things for you. However, you may have to do some handholding to
get it used to, let's say, executing a transaction in Phantom, which requires lots of JSON and
and phantom, which requires lots of JSON and non-HTTP operations.
If you were trying to do the runes part of that trade, rich swap is available to you.
You could just use that through the LLM today.
That's perfectly possible.
There's nothing that we've set up to set a barrier for that.
And I see that a lot more.
There's a choice for developers
and DAP providers in crypto that you can sort of require
that the wallet sign up be first
or you can let people see the application
and potentially stage an operation
before they actually get to the point
of hitting the transact button.
So I'm not just trying to make a commercial advertisement
for a rich swap.
I think that anybody who is developing
with ICP should be thinking about HTTP as part of the way that they want to interact with LLMs more
openly. Because if you want to have an LLM part of your product where things are a little bit more
restricted or a user would have to sort of authorize a browser to drive for them, then maybe you don't
want that strategy. Maybe you want to be a little bit more protective
and a little bit more closed off
on how you enable certain functionality,
but that doesn't mean that you can't have,
let's say, the ability to discover data about your app,
just happening over a standard internet protocols
that ICP supports.
So I think we're gonna see more interest from that
from developers in general,
but especially with the automation and AI stuff focusing on Bitcoin. I think that's a really big
question for us because while it's like X-verse and Unisat and others, they're really moderately
young. They don't have as much time in the market as Metamask does, and Metamask has a lot of bloat and problems. So I think we can keep learning from the previous mistakes of wallet providers,
but at the same time, the goal is not that we hyper-focus on wallets or hyper-focus on
one part of infrastructure. It's that we recognize that in the future, in the very near future,
recognize that in the future, in the very near future,
you know, there's not a reason to have this sprawling UX
at the user level.
It's kind of UX for a machine, it's UX for an LLM.
So I'm excited to see more things that, you know,
are anticipating both a user to come click the button
on occasion and also to, you know, welcome an LLM
to use public tooling.
I agree. Thank you, Sheldon. I think at the door of every great innovation or every great piece of
technology is the ease of use for people who know and people who are normies like myself.
That's why I love running these because I get to ask
all the silly little questions that make people understand a little bit better.
Does anyone want to jump on?
Yes, I would like to jump in.
Go ahead, go ahead, Eric, go.
Okay, so when we talk about AI, I think whether it's a retail level for somebody who wants
to do a simple transaction like buying Bitcoin with AI or somebody who is more driven by
profit like doing trading using AI to optimize and to grow its portfolio or portfolio.
I think what people need to understand before that stage happens,
you need to implement machine learning and model testing.
So before you can actually ask any LLM or any AI agent to do a transaction or a performance,
something has to happen before, which is machine learning and which is model testing,
meaning an AI agent is as good as the time frame has been learning because AI agents are learning
to be efficient because we talk about its efficiency and to optimize any transaction, any value or
proposition we're making. So I think what's important for you to understand is that it's not like you ask
AI to do something and it does it before that level of
transaction happens. You need a strong background on machine learning. And I think what I learned
with AlphaGrow, we're doing a lot of automated training with AI. These guys at Quant Engineering
who spent three years training the agent before they were optimized to do the actual good trade
before making mistakes, and they keep on adjusting it.
So it's not like, oh, the bot has been trained or is functioning and it's forever.
It's a daily constant adjustment of the bot or the agent in order to perform at its optimum value.
So it's really important for people to understand that.
Because, you know, in all the conversations at AIO, you have AI, you press a button, something is done.
Not true. And I think for people to be really careful because there will be loads of propositions of AI agents to do transactions on your behalf.
They might not give the best performance, they might not buy Bitcoin at the best price, and you don't know where it's buying it from.
So I think to do a bit of research and to really start searching the AI agents who have been battle-trusted, who have been confirmed,
and who can prove performance
over a period of time, minimum six months to a year, then you can start sharing your trust.
We come back to trust, you want to trust the agent rather than a human being or yourself,
then you also have to find out if that agent has proved itself and is actually reliable.
So that's the point I want to add to it.
So that's the point I want to add to it.
Definitely, I agree as well. I think a lot of the people who write stories about AI,
people who want to talk about the vision of the future of AI,
but I think we need people like you, Eric and you, Sheldon,
who's very on the ground, who understand the limitations,
and then push past those limitations. Thank you for that addition.
Does anyone else want to add in to that?
If not, I'm going to move on to the first question.
Or we can chat all night.
It's fine.
We are chill like that.
Anyone else want to add?
I'll rebut just really quickly because I'll
toot my own horn personally for a second
to say that I got an MIT micro grant for a business-oriented AI
product.
I'm not saying that I'm special because of that.
I'm saying that the idea that we got accepted by MIT
was specific model training with snapshots and preservation
of the model itself.
The way that modern AI moved forward really significantly
is thanks to transforms, which are a gift and a curse.
They're a black box, but at the same time,
they make the level of processing that we have
to say possible because it was not about 10 years ago.
So I think that there's a lot to be said
about the stability and trustworthiness
of a model and of a solution.
But I think that when you see this at scale, when you see it used for financial applications,
financial actions worth more than $10,000, you're going to see people wanting a higher
level of trust, as he was saying, in the functionality itself.
But part of that means that there is a greater responsibility or a greater demand to focus on that.
If I want a cheap LLM query right now, I can go get one.
And I don't have to ask questions
about the quality of the data that I receive.
And I just hope that I get a good result.
But to his point, if you're working with value at scale,
if you deal with OFAC liability,
if you have to explain to the purchasing department why
you accidentally bought and sold more than you were expected to or why you acted outside
your budget, you have to have accountability for these systems.
And I think that in crypto, we're used to a lot of move fast and break things.
But technology at scale in the modern era, sometimes it's comfortable with this idea, like you see Twitter doing really
big reorganizations, and sometimes that's not the case. Facebook is a really huge business,
Meta is a really huge business, and they've effectively lost a lot of money doing LLM
trading because they were focused on Metaverse and other applications, their non-LLM machine learning from years ago about
positive or negative intention from a comment, that's still some of the most valuable training
on the internet because of two reasons.
One, it's been running for such a long time, and two, because it's been applied and revisited
and back-tested over and over again. So I think we're going to get into a tiered focus mode, which means that there is a heavy
desire for some parties to get accountability, to get records, even state snapshotting and
rollback if they can.
But there's a lot that is not going to be feasible for most people who will sort of
take the free LLM service or take the free machine
learning oriented service and just use it as it's offered.
So I think it's important that as we
go forward to different AI products and solutions
that we keep an eye out for the quality, the nuance.
Definitely.
Thank you so much.
Sheldon, what you say is very true, very real.
Thank you for saying that because I actually met up with the founder this afternoon
and he was playing with an agentic AI tool that he's building with OpenAI's LLM.
And he was able to flood a particular Facebook post with many, many comments. OpenAI adalah LLM dan dia dapat melampaukan
sebuah panggilan Facebook dengan banyak komen
Tetapi salah satu perkara yang dia lakukan adalah
dia tidak melakukan tindakan untuk tidak membuat komen pada komen sendiri
sehingga LLM berlari dan berbicara terlalu banyak
dan menghabiskan banyak duit untuk membuat komen sendiri
Saya rasa itu adalah pembicaraan yang sangat menarik
pada waktu ini bersama Pembangun
Tetapi itu salah satu kes guna yang sangat besar I think that was a really interesting discussion this afternoon with the founder. But you know, that's one of the really, really big use cases, right?
Being able to communicate and talk to each other and AI can talk to AI.
But anyone else would like to add on to this?
If not, I'd like to move on to our topic today, which is AI and Bitcoin synergy.
Oh, Natalie.
Oh, go ahead, Natalie.
Go on unmute yourself.
Go ahead, say what you want.
Go ahead and say what you want.
Hi, I think the last thing you mentioned about AI communicating with each other is kind of like
something that Virtual Protocol is also talking about with their autonomous commerce protocol.
And they are talking about how they can create autonomous businesses just by with AI communicating
with each other.
I think this idea is really quite interesting, right?
And it gets me thinking about what is our role when it comes to prompting AI to do what
we actually want it to do.
And yeah, if anybody has any thoughts on what this looks like for the future, I'd be quite
interested to hear your thoughts about it because I think for us, we are also expanding
and thinking different ways you can not just fit into the narrative but advance the space
in general.
I think for us right now, we are trying to get, we're solving a real problem for many
people and I think it's grounded in adoption and UX.
But now that
we're taking it a step further, you talk about tech, about security, you talk about all these
other things in terms of like commerce, right? And autonomous businesses. I think there's
a lot to discuss around that area that is still very much, yeah, I don't really know
exactly where I'm going with this directly,
but just trying to think of it in terms of like the future of AI, right? Like rather than just
having conversations like that and forth, I think it's quite important to, I guess, highlight what
this means for consumers, for people who are not maybe directly in crypto. Like crypto is something that I guess advances it really fast.
Like we learn about things at a crazy speed.
But at the same time, we're not getting the same kind of attention and funding
that I guess non crypto projects in AI are getting.
So I'm just wondering if anybody had any thoughts on that.
That'll be quite interesting to figure out.
Cause we are mostly, I guess, um,
like we, we have to kind of follow the market sentiment,
but actually what's happening outside of WebPri, there's still a lot of AI stuff that's going on
and people are still getting funded and grants and things like that.
So curious to hear if anybody has any opinions on that.
Yeah, I mean, that's definitely one of the very interesting things.
I think to each person will use their LLMs differently.
Like if I had a, if I can imagine this, one of my friends who will be able to get two
different LLMs to talk, he will get them to talk about philosophy, right?
Like he's the kind of guy who will learn about philosophy and then he will get them to discuss
about confusions, you know, and all that.
So I think it's to each person, they will be interested in what they want to fix or dan dia akan membuat mereka berbincang tentang kesalahan dan sebagainya. Jadi saya rasa untuk setiap orang
mereka akan berminat dengan apa yang mereka mahu
menentang atau apa perbezaan
yang mereka mahu meluaskan.
Saya rasa kita semua boleh mengembangkan.
Tapi saya rasa anda betul. Saya rasa
tidak cukup
penggunaan dan penggunaan dan itu di mana
crypto datang dan crypto benar-benar
membantu
projek ini atau projek-projek berlainan lebih banyak dan lebih banyak penggunaan. the crypto comes in and the crypto really helps these projects or multiple projects
gain more eyeballs and more traction.
Anybody want to add?
Okay, if not, I would like to ask the first question.
I actually prepared a few, but today I know I just wanted to flow.
I think it's really cool that we are flowing as well.
But today we want to talk about AI. I want to ask this question. How is AI currently being used to improve
on Bitcoin mining efficiency? You can talk about it in what you think, what you know,
or even what you are trying to do in your project. And I don't know what are the most
promising innovations in the space. On top of my mind, I can think that AI is improving Bitcoin mining efficiency
by optimizing energy use, enhancing hardware performance,
or predicting the best time to mine based on market conditions.
What do you guys think?
Yeah, I definitely think for hardware optimization, AI is a useful tool because it's based on numbers and on resource management.
So there's no predictability, but it's to find out what's the most effective hardware solution and to find, based on the mining difficulty,
what would be the hardware to buy, to focus or which one to operate. And I think that's an interesting way to use AI to know
when to mine to optimize your revenue based on your energy cost and the maintenance cost. So I
think that's a really good use of AI for Bitcoin mining or mining any coin so to speak. I don't
think it should be limited to Bitcoin. Is there anyone here who has, because I'm not a technical
person, I'm not really a real normie. Sometimes
I ask questions that are pretty silly. Anyone here knows of any sort of AI used for Bitcoin?
Because from what I know, when you mine Bitcoin, you have to mine block by block, right? Is
there any way to skip blocks now? Or is it still like, you know, you still have to like
randomly mine blocks until you get, go ahead, Kyle, go ahead and unmute yourself.
Hey, first of all, I want to say really pleased to be on the space. I'm glad I finally got my audio problems fixed and got
back in the space. I appreciate you guys's patience and say it's
an honor. This is a all star cast here speaker. So I really
appreciate getting to be part of this. So in my opinion where Bitcoin benefits from
security is actually more in the sense that AI provides extra use cases for GPU
computation and so if so what it essentially does is gives another
use case for a Bitcoin miner to be used or
you know an entire data center focused on Bitcoin mining it can actually be
repurposed to AI and what that does is it actually makes it much more feasible
for somebody to start a Bitcoin mining company because they know that let's
say the you know the price of Bitcoin is very volatile and if the price ever went
down enough,
they could repurpose their equipment
and their investment towards AI.
So in my opinion, it actually opens up a lot of opportunity
for smaller mining companies to get involved
in Bitcoin mining and as well as gives maybe an opportunity
for AI data centers to also pivot into Bitcoin.
You can actually see it just in the hash rate of
Bitcoin mining has been nothing but up into the right since.
Even when it's broken its correlation with price
actually over the last two years since GPU usage has become more distributed.
That's my opinion. Appreciate it.
Yeah, I think I didn't know about there was a correlation between price action and Bitcoin
mining. That's very interesting. Do you know where I can read more about that or see that graph?
Yeah, I think, I mean, you could pull up the so there's always been like a six month lag
between hash power and Bitcoin price.
And a lot of people have speculated that the more people mine Bitcoin, the higher the hash
power, the that that drives price action.
I've always been of the opinion of, you know, getting hash power on the onto the Bitcoin
network actually is a six to 12 month lead time because you're trying to purchase, compute, opinion of getting hash power onto the Bitcoin network
actually is a six to 12 month lead time
because you're trying to purchase GPU computers
that have a long lead time and then get them installed.
So I actually don't believe that.
I think it's actually just people who have been smart
and predicted from the four year cycle that price increases.
But anyways, you could just even pull up a chart
of like Bitcoin price and Bitcoin's hash power
and just see, you can almost just see the correlation there.
So yeah, but anyways, it makes,
AI has opened up new business opportunities
for Bitcoin miners.
And that I think is extremely important
for allowing new businesses to come into the Bitcoin mining space, knowing that they're not locked in, that if market conditions change, they can actually pivot to a different market that is also seeing incredible growth.
Yeah, I think to Sentosa Cove and I met an OG Bitcoin miner.
He's like, you know, multi-millionaire, but he mined Bitcoin just in Mongolia, just a
little outside of China.
In fact, I'd like to ask Odin Phan about this, you know, about Bitcoin mining and AI.
Is anybody trying to do it? Because he said to me back in 2016,
when they brought up all of the mining rigs
and it was no longer allowed,
they actually closed down everything.
So what Carl is saying now is like,
they don't have to,
they could repurpose it for something else, right?
So I think that's a lot more feasible.
Odin Fa, would you like to add to this conversation?
How China is doing this and what new AI things are improving on?
Yes, yes, yes. I want, I want.
Okay, okay.
We all know that relevant AI products on EVM and cell have reached a very high market aware.
However, on all audience purposes, due to the market aware of audience dog and the
difference of the liquidity pool, the market aware are all quite low. I have an idea. Is it possible for us to incorporate AI elements into liquidity and
trading to help increase the liquidity pool and make a value of products on outing.
In this way, worse and more people will pay attention on ordering the liquid token is a widely suitable for this task.
I care. What do you think?
I'm really looking forward to getting your reply and
suggestion as well as I'm adding some value to this
digital currencies. Besides promoting in their community,
I'm also using the marketer value reward to
handle the marketer value of other projects
or help her with their land shares.
Right now, I'm still arranging
so that people who have
the liquid token can use the errors monitoring and the best call functions.
Who have the required token can use the errors monitoring and
best call cloud login is not taking functions. The rule for
use it is that you have to have the liquid token the program we will check
by itself if you have enough liquid token before you can use it what I mean
is I just want to increase the audience people post them and the
FTV the market aware I think I think in the audience the all of them
Market aware is so low in a credit road. So if we can and use AI
We can use some AI ways to help finish this problem.
I think it's very important because I really
think Audient Fund is a perfector,
productor, it can help our ICP and it can help our Bitcoin.
Great again. This is my opinion. So I really want the
projector about AI on outing can have a high FDB like the EVM or so. So I look forward to the Carers replay.
We all know Carer is the ICP's digital officer.
Yes, just now.
Thank you, Oding Fan.
We have our brothers from Nigeria who wants to add to the conversation.
Is South Africa Bitcoin mining? Do you guys have rigs? Are you guys using efficient models? Are
you guys using AI to become more efficient? Go ahead, brother. Yeah, thank you very much. So,
I mean, in a way, I believe we are not there yet, but looking at the future possibilities
of EHI being integrated into the mining operation, we can look at possibilities of having smart
mining algorithms or probably even selective mining towers, pretty much time-based optimizations
in areas where we have the possibility of predicting, you know, energy prices. So we can look at the possibility of, um, you know, mining in times, uh,
when there is a less demand for energy, of course, which would go a long way,
providing energy for other resources and only be able to mine precisely when, uh,
there is, you know, pretty much about selecting optimal hours for mining and,
uh, also pre using AI to get smarter by predicting money difficulties and also real-time power consumption adjustments and so on and so forth
In a way, like I said, so it's like in the near future where we are not there yet
Uh, probably even the possibility of using a high to optimize hardware utilization ensuring that every miners are able to utilize the hardware
You know, uh at optimal level, uh, but uh, this But this is just from the top of my head and
seeing how we can get smarter using AI to optimize Bitcoin mining.
Thank you. Thank you. ICP Hub Nigeria. Harpreet, do you want to add to this?
Yes. So, okay. Awesome. Yeah. So I just want this case of mining, right?
I mean, when you look into agents,
there are certain use cases that you can
implement or build into that ecosystem that is
able to bring things or make things better or improve.
But there are certain things that will make it broken as well,
because agent can also act as a double-edged sword,
right? Where in certain cases cases it makes it more efficient,
in certain cases it creates more problems.
But let's just consider these use cases from
different levels of difficulties and implementation.
Let's just see from maybe a person who's just trying to
optimize his mining in a particular mine farm, for example.
Let's say you build an agent connected to multiple mining farms and softwares which
are managing what is being mined in this miners farm and then later decide on which assets
to mine based on maybe the pricing, profitability, cost of electricity, and ask the agent to become the manager, right,
who actually manages this mining firm.
And basically, allocate resources as the token
becomes more profitable and more efficient.
So this agent job will be to actually look into
which assets you're like at the moment
is bringing the best returns, right?
Where to allocate the resources, which resources are suitable to be allocated. anda seperti saat ini membawa keuntungan terbaik, di mana untuk mengelakkan sumber,
mana sumber yang sesuai untuk dielakkan. Mari kita katakan anda mempunyai sejumpa pencuri asik yang sangat
efisien untuk mencuri aset yang tertentu tetapi tidak sebegitu efisien untuk mencuri Bitcoin,
betul? Jadi mungkin bukan pilihan yang bijak untuk mencuri Bitcoin, mungkin mencuri aset yang berbeza
atau sekarang anda mencuri aset yang berbeza tetapi lebih efisien untuk mereka untuk actually mind Bitcoin then, maybe mining a different asset. Or currently, your rigs are mining a different asset,
but it's more efficient for them to
be mining Bitcoin at this moment,
then switch to mining Bitcoin,
because it's more efficient
and it might be more profitable as well.
I think that sort of decisions,
which actually are a lot of
long-term decision-making and short-term decision-making as well, on terms of choosing, keputusan yang sebenarnya banyak keputusan yang panjang dan panjang
keputusan juga dalam keputusan pilihan. Ia adalah kemampuan besar untuk orang untuk
mempunyai, untuk orang untuk mempunyai, untuk menjadi seperti selama tahun ini adalah kekurangan kemampuan
kerana hari ini jika anda ingin melakukannya, anda memerlukan kemampuan perhatian yang baik, anda memerlukan kemampuan
reset, anda memerlukan kemampuan pemeliharaan yang baik, pada masa yang sama anda perlu tahu You need good research skills, you need good market understanding, at the same time, you
need to know what's going on in terms of price actions of those coins and what is happening
in the news as well, for example, to really get efficient in mining in a large scale mining
business itself.
But if let's say you had an agent who you could replace with for such an activity, basically every single small, medium,
big mining operation can now optimize itself with just a simple AI.
This is a use case in perspective of small scale,
something that is implementable quickly soon.
But let's talk about a bigger idea.
Let's talk about nation states, talk about countries.
There is a lot of electricity wastage due to mismanagement of power,
mismanagement of power generation, transmission, and usage because
of lack of transparency and lack of
understanding and on-time actions on how do you either move the power or
transmit the power or reduce the production of power if let's just say there's wastage.
So if we can actually have systems, let's say a blockchain powered national grid or just the power generation part of it is
actually in a blockchain ecosystem.
You can build agents on it to
actually optimize the power grid.
You know that, okay, at the moment,
the industries are not consuming as mass electricity,
maybe the demand has dropped due to economical pressures,
and now the industry is absorbing mengakui elektrik, mungkin permintaan telah turun kerana kepercayaan ekonomi dan sekarang
industri ini mengakui lebih kurang elektrik, ada kelebihan elektrik, apa yang boleh saya
lakukan dengan elektrik ini? Boleh saya menggunakan banyak peralatan mining atau
peralatan mining dan memungkinkan kripto-korenti atau mungkin memenuhi kekuatan untuk mining rigs and allow it to generate cryptocurrencies or maybe provide that power to
allow computation in the blockchain ecosystem, for example. But at the same time, you know now,
okay, the industry demand has caught up again. There's a higher demand there. Maybe it's more
profitable for me to generate the power to industry instead of mining right now. Can I optimize untuk menghasilkan kuasa kepada industri, bukan untuk memanjakan sekarang. Bolehkah saya memoptimiskan kemampuan dan penggunaan kuasa pada masa yang sama?
Jadi ini adalah idea yang lebih tinggi ketika anda melihat menguruskan grid elektrik dan penguruskan kuasa
sebuah negara. Ia berlaku? Ya, even at this level, you can look into countries like
Bhutan where they knew they have access to electricity, they signed private contracts,
they brought in a bunch of mining companies set up in Bhutan where they diverted access of
electricity and they are one of the big holders of Bitcoin right now as a nation, as a country.
And there's many petroleum companies and many different electricity grids at the end.
We're actually already doing it,
but they're doing it in a very manual way where they have
to constantly monitor, check,
and understand what's going on in the power grid,
and then execute it.
If that actually had a layer of agents on it,
managing and overseeing it,
it would have done in real-time instead of
a more predictive long-term approach,
it can be a real-time approach in terms of power management.
These are the two stages of the ideas that I
felt that agentic would be able to benefit.
But just looking in terms of terms of Bitcoin itself,
let's go in even more detail in
the Bitcoin ecosystem. So Bitcoin itself, as you were saying about in terms of blocks, the blocks
and the timing of the blocks is not a bug, it's a feature. Bitcoin being slow protects itself,
right? And its technology and its protocol design protects itself to become
one of the most secure technologies, assets, and ecosystem out there.
So that security that Bitcoin provides, it's a feature, not its downside, but when we actually want to make Bitcoin different or you're like,
or basically something new from what it is. Yes, of course, the technology was not designed for
agenting, right? But can we use other terms? For example, like right now, even ICPS, what I know,
provide CKBTC, right? They have a tokenization of Bitcoin and they have,
They have tokenization of Bitcoin and they allow you to actually use Bitcoin on ICP ecosystem
itself.
Why don't use those features of ICP, utilize it on ICP, add an agent on ICP, build amazing
tools for the Bitcoin ecosystem over there itself.
Having fully decentralized agents that are able to maybe
trade, transfer, or maybe make it even more fun, make Bitcoin games, agentic games.
You build games in those canisters and you deploy them on ICP network, but your pets
or your game is actually being played in sets.
You're basically maybe having a shooter game on ICP where actually if you manage to get a headshot,
you get X amount of sets.
You're like in your S3 bots.
I think it unlocks a lot more use cases,
even with the Bitcoin ecosystem.
But how traditionally Bitcoin it is as a protocol and technology.
I don't think we have to adjust that using agents.
That's just my perception. I'll get back to you guys.
Yeah, we'd love to hear more.
Thank you, Harpreet. Thank you.
I'd like to hear from Herbert and then we're going to give it to the floor
because I want Herbert to have some input in this because we also need some time.
I'm very famous for overrunning for time.
In fact, we're doing that right now, but the conversation is great.
Let's carry on.
Herbert, do you want to talk a little bit about how DFINITY in Asia is doing either
CKPTC or even with AI within canisters?
Do you have anything that you want to add to that?
Thank you, Stephen. Yeah, I think we all have, a lot of us, we have been
really talking non-stop about Odin fun in the last couple of days. So I wanted
to just relive the fun memory. I think that was last week.
It was the last week or the week before
when Bob, the founder of AudionFang,
spoke to the Chinese community for the first time
on the Twitter space hosted by Anna Cafe.
I think it was on a Friday afternoon.
It was really early hours for Bob.
And the community was waiting
anxiously to say the least for Bob to show up to hopefully to
to kill the rumor that there is a bug in the application etc etc and then
after 15 minutes Bob did not show up.
So the host Anna was saying, okay, Bob said he's gonna postpone the call.
Well, I can only imagine what was running through the minds
of a lot of us in the community,
given that there's a rampant rumor about this and that
with Audifon.
So I ping Bob on telegram, say, hey, Bob, are you there?
A lot of people, like 1,400 people from Chinese community
are waiting for you to get on these Twitter spaces.
Can you join us?
Bob is like, okay, okay sure I'll join
then I Then I call Anna. Hey Anna, you need to restart the Twitter spaces right now because Bobby is available
all right, so Anna restarted the Twitter spaces and
and and the community, you know to the credit of
of all the's Chinese community, everybody show up in those. And then after another maybe two more minutes, hey, here comes Bob, the
man of the hour. And then Bob did a wonderful job. Actually, the reason why Bob wasn't available
in the beginning was he and his team were working on this PR statement to clarify
what happened with Audienfarm, you know, why some users were seeing some discrepancy numbers,
you know, which caused a lot of some level of panic and confusion. So they actually wrote this lengthy statement to explain what happened,
how that issue has already been fixed, etc. That's why he was late in the first place.
But then anyway, he joined the call and had a pleasant chat with the community.
And then we are back on track. So I thought that was, I think that made a very dynamic
Friday afternoon for all the ICP lovers in Asia, in China.
I just wanted to take this opportunity
to recount that memory.
Five years from now, when we look back,
what was going on in March 2025,
when all in all, hypothetically,
okay, I'm projecting the future,
so not a financial advice.
If all in all has grown into the largest DAX
on Bitcoin ecosystem, I think on that
particular Friday, a lot of us are going to remember that day,
where we bring back Odin Fund and the rest is history.
I just want to share with everyone on that interesting episode.
And also, by the know, this Anna Cafe has
been really active in the last couple of, in the last few weeks. It's hosted by Anna from Youku.
She's a head of BD from Youku, you know, as you guys know, one of the largest metaverse projects
in ICP. And she has branched out to start hosting a series of Anna cafes.
So I just want to give her a shout out.
If Anna reaches out to you guys, inviting you to be the speakers for the Chinese community,
please give her your support.
We need more spaces like that.
Like this very one we are on on thanks to ICP Hub Network.
We need more spaces with different regions, whether that's Nigeria, Europe, America, Japan,
Korea or China.
We need to be in the conversation.
We need to invite our friends from other ecosystems to join us.
So I think we are, I'm seeing a lot of great momentum from Asia
in the last few weeks because of Audionfarm, because of all these anxieties surrounding
the Bitcoin is becoming this national reserve currency for America. People are wondering
what's that going to do to us in the industry? And as I mentioned earlier, I think that's a great opportunity for ICP.
So I'm looking forward to, you know,
to by the way, just an advertisement
to the Web3 Festival in Hong Kong from April 6th to 9th.
I will be there, I believe Sheldon from, you know,
the Omniti team will be there as well.
The Omniti has a workshop scheduled on April 7th.
So I'll be there to introduce Chain Fusion technology to some old and new friends in
Hong Kong. So hopefully we can get together there and have a good party. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Stephen.
Thank you, Herbert. That was definitely an epic few days. I didn't know all that was
happening in the background. I was reading the tweets. But yeah, you're right. I think
there's a lot that's happening in Asia, in Hong Kong, in China. I think one of the ways
we come together is through blockchain, through projects.
I think Sheldon wants to say something. Sheldon, go ahead. I see your hand raised. Go ahead.
Yep. Just being unreasonably polite as always. So I think there's a common thread or a common
discussion that may be a little bit forgotten from AI. Many years ago there was a greater appreciation for data sets,
and I think that's kind of come back recently now that there's so much
model poisoning, model exhaustion, you know, models feeding models.
Like an AI or a machine learning application that's getting somebody else's
machine learning output is not good, right?
We want to get the original input and use that information to make a conclusion. So
I wanted to draw y'all's attention to a handful of different stats about Bitcoin.
I can just keep it relatively narrow because it's relative to AI. The important
thing to know is that transforms the operation that I mentioned earlier, the
sort of black box that makes
AI as good as it is now, or machine learning as productive as it is now, productized, etc.
That transpired in 2016. So if you look at active addresses on a seven-day moving average
over the course of the last 15 years, you can see that between 2015 and 2017, the sort of angle of the trend changes significantly.
We go from this relatively unpopular place where there's no Ethereum, there's no smart contracts,
and while there is other activity on Ethereum, like significant amounts of activity on Ethereum
that could be tracked and purposed similarly, the traceability is much less significant. Because of UTXOs,
because Satoshi's are less fungible than Gui in a positive manner,
it's easy to take data like this and make it into a more meaningful conclusion.
So again, I'm looking at a number of active addresses over a seven-day moving average on Bitcoin
since 2010.
And if you look between 2015 and 2018, you can see a really steep increase when two things
started happening.
One, more people were experimenting with Bitcoin in a public manner.
And two, there was a higher motivation to transact on chain because there were these other competitors
and they were not as well accepted by financial institutions. So if you're trying to use Bitcoin
as a means of exchange, or you're trying to use any cryptocurrency as a means of exchange in 2015,
2016, you could use other cryptocurrencies, but Bitcoin is one of the easiest to cash out.
And for those who weren't in the industry at the time, it was extremely common to purchase You could use other cryptocurrencies, but Bitcoin is one of the easiest to cash out.
And for those who weren't in the industry at the time,
it was extremely common to purchase Bitcoin
and then use it to acquire other currencies.
So I think there was an understanding among ML engineers
and researchers at the time that said,
hey, there's this really big public database
that we can download.
It's less than 500 gigabytes at that time.
Hey, why don't we download this data set
and start doing pivots on it
and start trying to make conclusions
and extract information on it?
It's certainly an exercise that I've recommended
to data science students
that if you want to do something interesting,
just sync a Bitcoin node,
and then you've got a really great database
that's always gonna get new stuff added to it.
But if you look at that in contrast with minor earnings per tera hash, or if you're looking
at that as a contrast in total minor revenue daily, you can see that the argument for a
use case for business, like I think Kyle was saying earlier about
energy purpose or maybe it was Harpreet, but the focus for using this data as a point of
analytics to make business decisions, the value is increasing.
If you're looking at this as a trend, hey, is it worth it for me to process Bitcoin data
in order to make a business conclusion
because it's going to cost me money to process the Bitcoin data?
There's a very, very objective argument that you could make just looking at a handful of
charts that say, hey, I can see that fees, fee markets on Bitcoin had a big squeeze in
2018 and 2021 and in mid 2024, I can see that there was high activity at that time.
I'd like to see what the miners were doing relative to that.
I would like to see bring down activity from pools, how many people sort of like left as
the difficulty rate was too high, and then people who would activate when the fee rate was
climbing or the volume of fees available were climbing. As an example, I see a difference here
May 2nd, 2021 average fee $28 versus let's say 2023 around the same time, average fee being below $2.
So that doesn't sound like a whole huge difference to us.
I think it's a factor of a difference.
But a decimal place worth of dollar difference to a business at scale like a miner, that
could be hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions of dollars in operational losses.
So I think that in crypto, we focus a lot on the reward side of what Bitcoin can offer
But businesses at scale, they have to mind their risk.
And they do that.
They don't do that because I say they need to do that.
They do that because they don't want to lose their sort of king of the hill grade spot.
They have to keep on top of data trends in order to understand, hey, this is my time
to bring in some new miners
or to shut some of them off.
So I think there's still a lot of great use cases
for machine learning at a more raw level
and not so much AI that just takes in this data
and then make some data science level conclusions about it.
And anybody who's interested in doing that
could do it quite easily with open source tools.
Yeah thank you thank you Sheldon I think that's fantastic. I'm gonna
bring the floor right now up we are giving away
50 USD today if you've been listening carefully to the last one hour one hour
and 20 minutes I would like to invite you up.
You can now request to speak.
Now of course, please ask your question yourself and after this, please do DM ICP Hub Singapore
or I'll DM you myself and then you need to give us your wallet so that we can airdrop
you the USD.
Anyone from the floor would like to request up to speak.
Also ICB hubs network, ICB hubs,
I might need you to help me on this
because I'm not the co-host today.
I might need to help me bring up,
if possible, bring up the requests.
Okay, let's open the floor up right now.
You can ask a general question to all of the speakers today,
or you can direct your question to one of the speakers. Would anyone like to ask a question?
Please go ahead and request to speak.
Okay, I don't know whether it's a technical difficulty because I did have some technical
difficulty just now.
Is there anyone who would like to ask a question?
Go ahead and react and then I'm going to try to bring you up.
Okay, I'm not getting any alerts here. Baiklah, saya tidak mendapatkan apa-apa alat di sini.
Oh, biar saya beritahu anda.
Baiklah, ICB Hub mencoba untuk membantu saya di sini.
Kerana saya ingin memberikan lantai sebuah peluang untuk meminta soalan.
Kerana itulah yang menarik.
Oh, ada seseorang datang.
Saya ingin memberikan seseorang masa untuk meminta soalan. Somebody come on.
I do want to give somebody some time to ask question because this is where it gets really cool because you get to ask the speaker some questions and also a lot
of feedback that we got is the best time of the spaces is always the Q&A.
So let's give them opportunity.
Would anyone like to request?
Let me see. I am not the co-host,
so I can't really see who is requesting right now.
I'm going to give it another minute.
ICP Hub's network, it will be really great if you could help me out here.
If anyone is requesting, do bring them on the stage
so that we can get some audience and speaker interaction.
Okay, I think in terms of time, we are a little bit overrun.
I do think that we can go ahead and close out this session.
Can I go ahead and close this session?
Just one thing briefly, really quickly.
Yeah, no actually usually I'll give everyone a chance
to have their closing comments.
Sheldon, you go ahead.
Everybody will get a chance to do closing comments, yeah?
Okay, okay.
Go ahead.
So my closing statement is that we hope that,
we see lots of people out at the workshop
at the Web3 Festival.
I'm very excited for that because we don't get to do enough of those workshops and
we've got some other events coming up like describing Atlantis in Vegas and we're working
on some other great engagements as well with a developer focus. But trying to balance the
developer and art focus,
we're really trying to, you know, give back and be helpful for folks who want to do cool stuff.
So if you want to do something cool, please come out and see us at the workshop and ask questions.
And if you can't come out, then that's okay too. Just drop a DM or you could even comment on the
spaces and we'll reach out. We really want to support builders and artists.
So thank you so much for having us.
Thank you, Shadun from Omniti.
Go ahead, Eric, Eric, your closing comments, go ahead.
Yes, I'd like to make a closing comment
because we all speak about AI on Bitcoin and cryptocurrency,
but I just was at a conference a week ago
about quantum computer at PwC with Curenium and Metasig.
I felt that something was happening in innovation. Quantum computers are becoming real.
What people have to understand is that the encryption we are using for cryptocurrency
is 40 years old technology. The day the quantum computer will be live, that will be blown away, meaning like every single public key from Bitcoin, any wallet will be able to be a quantum computer within a second.
So I think there's a new wave of technology coming up on the space.
Blockchain and quantum will be important together.
I think the conference has really emphasized the point on that.
And what made me realize it's so important,
many governments across the globe are investing heavily on quantum computing without actually being public about it.
That's my closing statement.
Thank you, Eric. Aaron, would you like to come and do a few statements before we close?
Yeah, so thanks everyone for being here for this space. It's been a very
interesting conversation and obviously it's an ongoing one so we have one every
week so hopefully we'll see you next week. And yeah and for me here in
Singapore we have a meetup this Sunday at noon and this meetup will be hosted together with VLWallet and VLWallet will be
an AI agent enabled wallet where you can just talk to it and you can manage like air drops
which you know Stephen I think is yeah it's quite a chore for you so hopefully yeah when
this AI agent comes up we can we can do this part for you. Yeah, again, thanks to everyone.
And I think that coming back to the statement I made,
I think that's something that people would really need to pay attention to.
So the moment you host an AI agent locally is fine,
but once the economic value of this agent becomes, you know, significant,
then I think the next logical step is people would think about security, right? And, and,
and, you know, the only blockchain that can possibly host this is ICP. And I think, you
know, this is like the main point. And, and, and I think people don't realize it yet. And I think there's a lot of, you know, and I think
realization may come all at one time in a wave.
And this is something that I think is, yeah, it's gonna
write history for internet. Thank you. Thank you, Aaron. Thank you so much.
Kyle, would you like to come up and say a few
statements, closing comments.
Yeah, no, I really appreciate this space.
And it was great, great to be on here.
And I apologize again for the technical difficulties on my own end.
But more just I want to encourage people to to start building.
This is like everyone listen to the space.
There's so much good conversation related to the
the intersection between AI and Bitcoin. And that's a completely green field waiting
for people to explore. And I think all of us have the alpha
in terms of we're like we're way ahead of the curve for for
building new products. And it's going to take the rest of the
industry is going to take the rest of the industry is going to take the rest of
You know the web to world and all that to catch up and so you have this this head start
So start thinking through
Exactly what type of products the world needs and and start building and I think just from this conversation just building on it on ICP There's a lot of opportunity there and then even if you don't want to
You know, there's there's also a huge area for for building pro projects on, you know, on web
two tech stacks and things like that. I think all of it all of
it, the more we can make Bitcoin part of the AI experience, the
better for humanity and for society and for our industry.
What I don't want to see is,
I find it kind of embarrassing that Bitcoin is digital money
and yet there's almost no website I use on a daily basis
that accepts Bitcoin as payment.
Everyone's still using credit cards
and I don't wanna see our industry lose
the competitive advantage that we would have
in the AI space, especially
as we were talking about like, LLMs making, doing financial transactions on our behalf.
And so start building. And if you have a friend who's trying to explore the space, bring them
on board and get them interested in building AI and Bitcoin apps. And yeah, appreciate
the time. Thank you, everyone.
Thank you, Carl.
Herbert, would you like to come and do a few sentences?
Yeah, sure.
Stephen, I just want to remind everyone right now there
is a bit of a minimalism sentiment going on
in the industry because a lot of folks feel that
what have we got so far and what's left in crypto?
Is it just mean or Bitcoin as a number one coin, which shouldn't be surprising to a lot of folks from years ago.
So I think to fight that sentiment, I think this is actually the great opportunity for ICP,
because especially given today's topic about AI, about Bitcoin, As the founder and chief scientist,
Domni Williams of the Definite Foundation,
said we are entering into this age of self-writing internet.
So for those of you who have play around
with larger language models to say, try to do vibe coding,
you'll see that we live in an age
where it's increasingly difficult to differentiate which content is coming from human versus machine.
It's a hybrid. It's woven together as we do coding, as we write the next version of internet, which means I think there is a great opportunity
and a lot of a huge empty space for more content creators to write our own story, to preserve
facts, to write human stories as we leave them.
Because I think if we don't, it's gonna be difficult to tell which one is generated
by the machine versus human.
So while we still can, it's good to write down those things,
share your observations, share your learnings,
share your stories.
I think this is a great time for super content creators.
And there's a lot of things we can do.
With LaunchPass, such as Audienfarm,
there are ways we can empower the super content creators,
not only just to write,
but also to actually monetize their content.
So that's just my call out.
I think this has always been neglected in the industry.
But creating content has a lot of long-term value
that is becoming more precious now as AI is growing by day.
Thank you, Herbert. I think you're keeping it really real by talking
about the negativity in the market. Thank you for that. That was really cool for you to come out and
say that. Natalie, Natalie, would you come and do some closing comments? Yeah for sure. I think
first of all thank you Buddy for tuning in and listening and I'm really grateful to be able to
share the space with everyone here. I learned a lot actually about Bitcoin and as a whole as somebody who's like, I guess, relatively newer.
It's very interesting. I guess for me, I guess on a higher level, my sentiment towards the broader market is that I'm very focused on things that are real, right?
So consumer adoption is something that's always been
very important to me.
It's the first narrative I guess entered crypto with,
and it's the narrative that I will still
be the most bullish upon.
I think personally, as somebody who's maybe a little bit
more normie, I understand a bit more about DeFi,
and I guess AI is something that is actually quite empowering
because now everybody can build.
And fundamentally that means that it changes the way of work, it changes the way we see
things, it changes the way we monetize, it changes the way we communicate and interact.
For me, building with AI, with crypto and the broader space is something that is very empowering and it changed the way I see
I guess my progress and what I want to do with my time. So I would like to kind of like share this
sentiment with everybody else and that's why adoption is very important to me because I truly think it's about freedom. It's about long-term success in a way that's never possible before.
So if everybody can build their own businesses and monetize their own content, monetize who they are,
and crypto is something that, you know, and Bitcoin is something that, you know, pushes us to that next level,
it's something that we should double down on and really really think about
simplifying it for everybody else. Hopefully, building with CMX is, I guess, the first step.
But yeah, I guess that's really my statement. It's accessible, it's very difficult, and it's a very
crowded space, but it's also something that is worth trying.
So yeah that's my closing statement. Thanks again for you know inviting us on
this space. Thank you Natalie that was really in alignment with all of us. I
think from the voices of everyone here I think we really aligned with everyone
should go and build their own projects, go and align with a particular vision and build and ask questions and push.
Harpreet, you have given us a lot of valuable insights today.
Harpreet, can you do your closing statements,
your last few sentences that you want to share with us?
Sure, definitely. Sorry, I lost you guys in
a bit earlier due to the connection.
I was walking outside.
My closing statements will be solve real problems.
There's tremendous amount of problems out there.
In the world that actually we can solve using agents,
can solve using Blockchain, Crypto,
AR, all the other set of tool stacks that are out there. I think solve real problems,
build things that are cool, and don't be evil.
Don't only think about your monetary gain
and screw the whole market.
Don't build things that will become evil
because it follows your footsteps.
There are some of those things.
I think there is tremendous amount of opportunity.
While I was actually listening,
Kyle's talk earlier, I was like,
hey, that's a really cool idea to build,
you're like an agent data analysis
or an agent data scientist who's actually able to
maybe study the market for you.
So there's $1 billion opportunity over there.
Whoever wants to build it, that's a really cool idea.
I'll use it. I mean,
maybe you can wipe scrap data from ecosystem
instead of just wipe coding anymore.
That's going to be some cool stuff out there.
I think the possibilities are endless.
Whenever you encounter a problem and you're like,
hey, can I solve this using an agent?
Can I actually bring more value to people if it's agentic?
Will it be something cool?
There's something people want to use it.
At the same time, how do I protect it,
make sure that it doesn't go beyond its means?
So that mindset is what I leave you guys with.
I will not talk much.
I hope to fill you guys in even more in the future, tidak mengejar daripada keadaan dan makna. Jadi, makna itu yang akan saya tinggalkan kepada anda. Saya tidak akan bercakap banyak.
Saya harap anda akan menerima lebih banyak
dalam sesi AMA di masa depan.
Terima kasih, Rick.
Terima kasih, Harpreet. Saya rasa semua kita
telah mendengar semua kata-kata hari ini.
Semua orang sangat hebat.
Saya ingin menghargai
semua orang di sini.
Kamu semua sangat hebat. Kamu semua yang memotivasi
saya untuk terus melakukannya. Ini adalah makna yang sangat hebat. Hey everyone here, you guys are awesome. You guys are what motivate me to keep doing this.
This is really great, very valuable insights
with these spaces.
What an incredible discussion we had today.
Truly the depth of insight shared was truly next level.
A huge thank you to everyone,
especially our amazing speakers,
Natalie from CMX agent, Mr. Aaron Ting
for putting me together.
Kyle Lungham, thank you.
Eric Alexander, Herbert ICP from Asia's Diffinity.
Harpreet, thank you so much.
All the info for coming up to speak.
Sheldon from Omniti, and thank you.
And of course, everyone in the audience for tuning in.
Today we covered some game changing topics.
Automation in business through blockchain.
How infrastructure can support AI and LLMs
without unnecessary barriers like paywalls and sign-ins, using AI to optimize Bitcoin
mining from identifying the best energy sources to improving efficiency and even on national
scale, right?
Like Bhutan, I heard, this is the first time I heard about that, right?
And how selective mining can repurpose resources
and make Bitcoin mining more accessible,
more than ever before, even for the small guy.
This space was packed with valuable insights
and I can't wait for the next one.
Stay tuned because next time we'll be delving into
many more AI topics and blockchain and ICP.
And you know, apologies for the technical difficulties today.
I kid you not, I'm in Malaysia right now
But you know there were so many I was not the co-host
But I think we're gonna do it again and really do better
And next time we'll make sure that I'm co-host and I can get people up to ask
Questions because we are really really excited to give away free internet money
Yeah, but it's not usually a end the song today because of technical difficulty
there is no song so end with this.
Whoa we're not even halfway there whoa
living on a prayer
Good night everyone thank you.
Oh my goodness.
Good night.
Thank you Stephen. Thank you.
