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Aleph Zero Talks: idOS
Recorded: Jan. 27, 2025 Duration: 0:42:36Space Recording
Full Transcription
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We're happy to have all of you here.
As most of you guys already know, we have been doing almost weekly EMAs with ecosystem projects
and partners.
And today, we're having IDOS, which is an identity layer of web 3.
So, we're going to talk about, we're going to talk about, we have prepared a few questions
for you.
And in the end of those questions, we also have community questions that we selected from
our community.
So yeah, in total should be about eight questions.
Yeah, so if you're ready, so we're going to do it.
Okay, so starting with a very basic question is what is IDOS and who's behind it?
um well the idea is our effort to decentralize data and to give users the ability um to take
back control of their own data but very precisely by tackling something that has plaguing us all
which is the kyc space so enabling um new banks uh crypto financial modules to easily
um with the user mandating that exchange uh having access to kyc data so it doesn't spread
uh throughout the web um the team behind the idea s is um uh is a consortium uh so we have very early
um tried and and so we're unable to get people like um like lf0 uh like gnosis uh circle
etc in to commit to finally decentralizing data
great great a follow-up question uh around the same topic is why we need identity to be in ad storage
so i mean identity is one of the earliest topics when you are even looking um at the bitcoin white
pip right like was one of the first applications where we felt like decentralized ledger technology
could help us gain back control um over something that admittedly even the web founder tim bernas lee
said um he missed to implement in a decentralized way which is uh data control um and we have seen
early applications in 2017 when i joined that space and and started working on decentralized
identity you know like uport or or civic or sovereign they they all didn't make it to the extent that we
had hoped for and we feel like that was because we collectively went into the wrong directions so
specifically we all went for identity wallets and that's just a concept that is inherently flawed
because as a user you're coming to a data consumer website or a dap or whatever it is and you are not
allowing um these folks to have data have access to your data of a certain set of time but that's the
the use case that that most of them have so what ends up happening is that they either do not store it at
all which is the best solution to it or they have to store it want to store it and they're storing it in
centralized databases again so that's not great right then we had those um identity nfts and and
registries i mean coinbase just launched theirs a year ago approximately they never really caught on
because for what they were designed for they don't really work especially in regulatory settings
it's just not enough so here we are um 10 years later after the first identity um decentralized identity
place um pioneered and made the debut um we still we still do not know how to
decentralize data in web3 and that just needs to change
super interesting and uh i think identity layer or web3 is going to play a crucial role in the in the
massive adoption and the community has been uh pretty excited to see how idos will will work with lf0 so
my question is uh mainly what are the main use cases today
so um all i aim is to go in with a very specific use case and not go broad i mean identity obviously
is extremely broad and we know a lot of use cases where it can be helpful like fighting bots
i mean being on twitter you might have stumbled into that the problem um however what we feel is
that there is one immediate very specific problem that users have that need to read kyc all the time
that have the data in places where they shouldn't be um and data consumers so uh financial applications
everyone that needs to conduct kyc those those teams they are entrepreneurs you know and they all need to
become kyc experts compliance experts financial regulatory experts they need to all set up their
um their databases secure them so that's not great and we are really catering to them very specifically
what we're doing with you guys is that we are setting up um common to work in a way that you would
expect um your new bank to to look like right you onboard once and then you're good um and it doesn't
matter what's under the hood and in this case what's under the hood is pretty exciting if you ask me
um i mean anthony you'll be able to talk a bit more about that but it's basically an open financial
system that we're building where um there's one coordinator and there are different modules that
you plug in so suddenly you can use your decks and off ramp this get um to you to your bank account
because it's in the same app you can make payments you can pay by card but you can also use your
checking account and and get like the crypto stable yield on it and not your meager one percent or
what have not that you get on your normal checking account if even great great input uh the next
question that i have has to do with uh with the integration with all of zero uh how idos can support
all of zero applications could you elaborate a little more on that for our community to understand
yeah sure i mean um common is this pretty straightforward one right like um you have an
extremely seamless um front end that leverages your guys's technology uh as as an initial use case
and you enable yourself and your users first and foremost to um have the first to be the first defy
fintech platform that gives users control over their own data and an extremely smooth kyc onboarding
experience where you kyc once and then then you're good um so that makes for an amazing forward
compatibility where any type of financial module that you wish to add to the stack is basically
feels like you're just adding an app right just like you go to the app store right now you add an app
you can do that with your bank basically so everyone that we can onboard to the idos as a financial
module um is super easy to integrate into common um because you can just add it and the kyc
interoperability would be done already as the ecosystem this is even i would even say even more
exciting because what that does is it allows all users to have this interoperability throughout the
whole ecosystem so as a builder if you want to tap into the already existing user base let's say it's
a hundred thousand kyc users one million kyc users for for an entrepreneur this is amazing because you're
roughly paying 100 to 200 dollars per person um for for a new fintech user because it's it's really
cumbersome to to onboard people right i mean just as a normal user you really think twice if you really
want to use this new this new neobank if you just want to check it out if you have to go through another
kyc process uh so i think this just gives the whole ecosystem a huge advantage uh and will be a big pull for
um defy and even fintech founders to be honest in which chain do they choose if they have a pool of
users that are already available great uh yeah i also believe that making the user experience is
easier uh is important for the massive adoption for web3 that's something that we do with lf0 as well
in common we try to make it as easy as possible for the average user um so yeah thanks for for the
answer um we have a couple of more questions here um what's the role of idos in the lf0 ecosystem
um our role is to provide
the storage and access management capabilities um for users to easily onboard and for builders to
easily connect to and uh and build so that means we want to make we want to onboard as many users
uh in the ecosystem to use the idos so that they have control over who they share their data with
and we want to facilitate a conversation with other builders in that space to understand how they could
use the idos for different other use cases uh there is something else that we recently
only really started discussing which is that even if you're looking at zk use cases right so zk in a
in a privacy sense um you do need to have a place where this data is available for computation
so that could as well and i'm just completely making this up but this is the beauty of of protocols and
open source um networks this could be for example people's browser behavior that they choose to store
or in the idos where no one else has access to it and someone in the lf0 ecosystem coming up with a cool way to
generate tags based off out of the browsing behavior to allow other depths to incentivize
people that have specific traits for example d5 power users you know or um yeah zk in general
to um to display certain attestations that people have without revealing the underlying information
in the first place i i think that the ability to have something that is neither centralized and private
nor public and on chain because those are the only kind of options that you have right now but
that a place that is private can be shared but accessible via on chain that is super important and i i mean
yeah privacy and privacy tech is just something that we need because we are not experts in
uh creating zk applications we're experts in uh keeping identity making sure identity stays decentralized and
managing the access controls and giving users the power over their own data
yeah yeah super interesting uh yeah so uh a question about privacy is uh how privacy technology
is uh how do you interact with idos so um
i mean data is just there as a matter of of moving of acting of doing something right and if that action
happens in the digital space it is extremely likely to be recorded and the question is like how do we deal
with that fact um in my view uh privacy technology allows me to to steer and abstract that data flow
a bit better so that means that in terms of like the idos and and lfzeros relation the one thing is to have a
a container where i can safely store it so that it's not being distributed to parties where i do not have
control over that and i mean just look at you know uh the way that open authentication is used to
for people to to understand who you're interacting with uh you get an idea how much of your own data is out
there um i for one would would not be surprised if um if google and facebook know a lot more about me than
uh than any country actually it doesn't matter how powerful their intelligence unit is um and then
that's where privacy tech comes in to manage that data flow you know to understand better who do i share it
with how do i abstract it so that i just have at the stations that i just have the artifacts and not the
actual data that i need to share
great a follow-up question around the same topic is uh if the price if the privacy features will be
ready at launch of idos or do you plan to add at the later stages
um so there are different stages of the ideas and i would argue we are we're about to go live um
with the actual product so you will be able to see um what i feel is a pretty cool application of the ideas
which is very specific for kyc reusability just as a starting point um arguably this is not the actual go
life because it is still a semi-centralized process we are not running the only node there but we have a
very small permission system um to distribute the data um even though it's user encrypted right so even we
cannot see it um but we could change the how the protocol works again we then could not decrypt it still
but we could for example um yeah choose to implement a different consensus mechanism so and that needs
to change and that's the network go live obviously that needs to be um that we need to have a way to
continuously decentralize the whole system further and that's going to be um also this year
um and i'm i'm quite excited about that now coming back to the actual question privacy tech will not
be there for the actual first product launch um but it will come soon after because we have decided
strategically that we do not implement uh privacy tech ourselves but we want our ecosystem partners that
know a lot more about it uh to to do it on top of the ideas and this is where we see lf0 playing a big role
because you guys are not just implementing that for us but also for our consortium partners so that
a near uh circle uh gnosis etc they they have the option um out of the box to choose it to obfuscate
um some of the data that is being shared um for the users if they if they want to it's an ability
for them to do it um and you guys are building it so that's a lot better we focus on what we are good
at and we have friends um that are experts uh on the privacy tech field and that is you
great um we have been receiving a lot of questions from the community about uh the plans uh of idos the
roadmap and i told them look we're gonna have an ema with them this week so i would wait for you guys
to to listen directly from them uh the question will be more about uh the roadmap for idos yeah could
you tell me more about the roadmap for 2025 yeah very much so um so there is a product launch that's
gonna be happening uh rather soon and before you guys uh think that this is going to be in a week or
so and it's going to take a little bit longer uh so we're looking shortly after um the first quarter so
uh in april we want to be sure to launch something that uh we will see in action uh we're working with
some of the consortium partners on the first pilot that we're quite excited about where you will
actually see a massively different user experience not just in terms of like how you onboard but
especially how you subsequently onboard and the way that your data shared because it's then actually
already uh shared in a um in in your own vault in your own profile um for the rest of the year so
there are a couple of cool things that we got up our sleeves that we're working on
we have learned a lesson of not um not releasing to a specific schedule
but when we're ready um but what i can tell you is that we'll do
um features uh this year um so this is something that we feel quite strong about and what is super
important is that we add more notes right those are obviously gonna be our consortium partners
um as the stewards of the data um to execute on the protocol um but uh
uh yeah we still need to see that we specify this but there are a lot of very hard technical challenges
that we need to solve until then um let alone from the compliance side um and this is what we're
working on this year so it's going to be a quite quite busy one
um great and along the along the year i'm i'm going to be in touch with with julian to um yeah to bring
updates about everything that they're working on through to the community so you guys are going to be up
to date with everything in the in the roadmap uh a very similar question to to the one that i just
asked about the roadmap um but has to do more of the mentality of the project uh what's the long-term vision
uh for idos what do you guys believe in oh that's a good one um thanks thanks for asking um of course so
we've been around working specifically on decentralized identity in web3 since 2017 right
arguably the least attractive place because uh it wasn't really rewarding financially you'd be better
of flipping um jpcs and it's also a place that people have a mixed attitude towards i think
everyone realizes that there's something broken but a lot of people don't want to have anything to do
with kyc right and who's going to fault them i mean that system is definitely imperfect to say the very
least um you know just excluding specific people but you need to deal with it to solve it you need to
really dig in and this is something that we felt always very passionate about um to bring real change
by tackling some hard problems that we see out there and we feel like an open source financial system
um is extremely attractive and and important um and we need to enable this yeah and for that
the user onboarding part and and also compliance so that we can actually offer things that rival threat
fire which is what brought me into that space right i mean that's the thing that is attractive about
bitcoin it came out when the financial system was broken and they wanted to propose an alternative of
p2p interactions of us just building systems that are better that are transparent you know that are
self-custodial as well um and that's something that we want to achieve now if we zoom out a little bit
um it's not about kyc kyc is a great starting point because it's so obvious that something is broken
that this data belongs into the hands of the users that they should be informed that we shouldn't build
honey pots where people could can get hacked um all the time but if you zoom out and i strongly believe that
we need to establish the idea of an identity on the internet
because only if you have the sense the the the basic um the ability to have papers on the internet
you can have rights on the internet that are tied to you as a human being uh and i mean in french you
call it so if you do not have papers then you do not have any rights and that's just the state how it is
and i mean it's it's not a problem for me because we're so early and we're just starting to innovate
different governance systems but they are always token based so the more you have the more your voice
counts and that's not what i got into crypto for um so i do think we need to do better but for us as a
collective space to do better to have true p2p governance in general that we establish we need
to have the notion of a human being on the internet and that's what we want to do but you know a lot of
people have said that a lot of people have talked about that data belongs to the users and a lot nothing
has really happened we're still back to centralized providers so we actually don't want to talk too much
about the grand vision of it and really show that we can be the first ones that really bring
decentralized identity uh actually into operational systems and that's going to be our task for this
year that's great i believe that that's what the community wanted to hear uh yeah and the call is
very important for them to to fully understand your plans and and and the impact that us will have in
the web tree in general not only for for all of zero um okay so those were the questions that we had
planned for for you uh but we do have community questions if that's okay uh i would like to ask a
couple of questions from the community great so let me check here uh we have oh okay so we have uh the
question from trellarat which is one of the founders of uh the marmoset club is a very popular community
uh a file of zero uh the question is um one second how does idos leverage is your privacy focus and
decentralized identity solutions to create unique values to the users
and a follow-up question on that would be what specific use cases or industries do you see
getting the most value from this partnership
um so just very specifically um you have seen different approaches here right and and usually
the decentralized identity approach is to do everything yourself ideally on your own chain
and that hasn't worked and i don't think it will work um so our approach is very different
um we are chain agnostic and we try to work as much as possible uh with different partners to achieve
uh to achieve more because our resources are limited and um uh yeah there are experts out there that are
just way better and you guys are these experts so um what i feel is for example we can create a much
cooler solution to like the coinbase registry that they created with ens because we cannot just
um have the attestation itself which which we can create using uh zero knowledge proofs
um but we can also tie it back to the actual data um which isn't visible but if push comes to shove
the user could point towards it and so that in itself is an extremely good um solution in my opinion or a
showcase where open source really works you get together with someone and you immediately create better
solutions now lf0 is not just like the actual internal team or so it's a it's a community right so
there are so many things that we can build together and this is also a call for builders to think about
what would i do if i do not have to store any user information in my centralized databases or if i could
store it in the first place because i'm not storing it today because i found a cool way how it's actually in
the user custody and i don't have to take care of it um and this is where we are today so
uh who actually benefits from it most i think is common because we can build and orchestrate different
providers so that they do not have to take care of kyc reusability what's in it in the future um
honestly i don't know it's kind of like a browser moment the browser is there but we do not know
what users are going to build in terms of websites and here the respective
um use case could be um health data resharing right maybe you want to use it for
uh tracking um your pulse and you want to upload the data into self-custody but you still have a
solution um where you do not need to trust anyone but you could throw your data in a pool where it can
be used for an average among all users so others can compare am i doing am i doing fine right um
um or we are talking about um user behavioral data so uh your browser history where you want to
build something on top but those are just my initial thoughts and i'm pretty sure there are people out
there that are that will go hear it and go like hmm i could use it for xyz and i would have never thought
about it and that's the beauty of an ecosystem like we're building that people could just come and use
it without having to ask us for any permission yes yes that definitely answers his question uh he just
sent me a dm saying that thank you and that he's super excited for for the roadmap and for the development
of idos so yeah so thanks for the question um another question from the community that might be
the last one or we have a couple of more i don't want to take a lot of your time um okay um one second
here okay so the question from uh late okay uh what's the process to do account abstraction as in how
will idos and zk os communicate with the various protocols
so the account abstraction process is rather simple which um is basically teaching our nodes the
private public key cryptography that is used specifically um so the model is that you have
one or many profiles and but for each of those profiles you could add different keys that control
the account and that account could be um an evm key but it can also be
a native lf0 like rust based uh key pair uh to control it um or whatever right it could be any type
basically um that knows how to sign a message um right now it's it's it will be more sophisticated in the
future where we will have like different types of profiles that you can create or different types of
of keys where you can say well one should be my admin key pair another one should be um one where i
could just like give access to a certain set of information but as we're starting out you just have like
the different key pairs that allow you to um yeah to give access to admin key pairs basically your your admin
key pair to start with
great great uh last question from the community and after that um we are as usual uh we are drawing
three people uh to win 180 uh so it's super interesting that's something that we do with
i mean all the emails that we that we have so yeah so the last community question is um let me check
okay uh what will be the difference between azu id and idos what kind of data that idos will be focused on
it's like photo document person id email
the idos is like your google drive but in a way that you know no one can no one else has the ability
to access it so you can put anything you like into it um it is probably going to be too expensive to use
it to store your movies um you probably want to use that for your personal information um
but you can also picture it as a place you know where you can right click and you share
um let's say your passport document with someone not with anyone but with the specific
banks or financial players that really need it um so we are not in we are not an id type of system
um as in like a profile where you have a dot and a zero address um that's something again where we will
just be collaborating with others because it's already out there and we want to collaborate and not
rebuild the whole system ourselves
great uh i think that's that covers uh all the questions that we have uh in total we had about
nine questions um is that anything you would like to mention julian
um no i mean we're excited about uh working with you we've seen a very engaged and active community that
deeply cares about having actual applications um and actual privacy solutions and we have really enjoyed
meeting the team we actually went for an offside to krakow um with the management team to also meet with
anthony and um and adam and the whole team and that was great i'm actually super excited it gives me
confidence that there are people in that space that build actual meaningful products that advance us not
just as a crypto space but um as as people in different countries that see the same problem that
try to solve the same problem where i'm happy to work in this industry because it um enables us to
collaborate it incentivizes us even to collaborate and that's what i what i love about it and i think our
collaboration is the best example of um yeah of that way of mode of working together
yeah yeah super interesting we're also very very happy to to be working with with us the community
is super excited we i have been receiving uh a lot of dms in the last few days uh they were excited
about the ama today so as i said a few minutes ago i will be closely in touch with with with your team
so that i can always be bringing updates to the community about us in the roadmap uh i think
that's that's very important so yeah so we are done for today's ema uh in about 10 minutes i'll be
going to be messaging all of uh i'm going to be messaging the group announcing the three winners of
the 180 and yeah we are looking forward to see you guys in the next ones as well thanks julian uh
thanks anthony for joining as well um see you guys yeah thanks so much rafael and everyone listening
thanks so much
thanks
thanks
thanks
thanks
thanks
thanks
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Aleph Zero
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