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Algo open source
Recorded: Jan. 20, 2026 Duration: 5:17:49Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Yep, we're back.
And I don't remember the last time we did one of these things.
I'll have to check the calendar.
But it does feel like it's been a minute, definitely since December.
Let me see if I can look at my page and figure out the exact date.
I have to scroll pretty far back for this one.
November? Maybe it's been since November.
Since November 21st.
Wow, so it's been almost two months since we did one of these things.
But I feel like I've posted once in a while so
But yeah, there's a lot to catch up on and
You know, I'm still
On X every single day. I'm still trading every day. I'm still just, you know paying attention to everything that's going on
I just I don't know haven't had as much of a inspiration
I think I posted this maybe like a week ago or something. I just haven't had as much of a inspiration around
the conversations
That have been going on
that being said there's
especially over the last two weeks there's been plenty I think that uh
Even though there was like decent action and in december
and whatnot um i mean january's just been it's not even the 20th and we've had you know a million
different things go on um so yeah there's plenty to talk about um but yeah i'm gonna let people up
on stage in a minute here i gotta get warmed up warmed up a little bit. I feel like I'm jumping straight back into the pool and, uh, you know, you got to get
warm a bit.
So I also got a diet Coke here, which that's been my only advice.
I think I told you guys that, but we're back on the diet Cokes.
Okay.
So some of the things that I think are probably worth talking about today, everything from, I mean, even just more so relevant to today itself is, you know, there's like the USD1, like traders competition.
And then, you know, a couple hours later, you have PumpFun drop their, you know, kind of like a hackathon type situation, right?
Like the PumpFun BuildersFun thing, which I thought was really cool. And, you know, and
obviously everything went bad. I mean, dude, if I, I have literally, you know, trading is a hell of a
game. And I've made some good trades
recently. I've also made some really bad
trades. And
the bad trades are not as
much top blasting and then getting
punished for it. I've tried to kind of stay
away from that. But I had
like, I think I bought
and sold that
tomato fucking VeggieTales
ass coin maybe two or three times sub
100 K market cap, you know?
And then of course it's like 20 mil plus, like this is the AGI and, you know, and this
sort of thing.
And then, and then gas town as well, dude, I, I looked in my ether scan and I sold, I
think a percent of gasown for $150.
You know, and then of course, like, it's like the next coming of, you know, Sam Altman on
chain and then, you know, we're at 60 mil.
So my bad trades were more so like that, which is also not that, yeah, yeah, it's not that normal for me typically.
Cause I'm usually the type of person that will just like buy and dust it. And if I lose money
on it, you know, it is what it is. Move on to the next. But I had been punished for doing that so
many times to the point where I'm just like, fuck it. If it's not moving, it's not moving.
And the thing with Gastown and Soul a tomato is both of them were extremely difficult
holds um you had to just be a complete sicko to be able to basically be able to hold them
I think it's easy to look at it in retrospect and be like wow these are like such easy narratives
and and whatever um but when they came out it was basically no movement for over a week
so you just like sit with it in your wallet and,
you know,
you think to yourself,
well,
fuck,
I might as well just like ate this into something else.
Like there's no reason to just burn 400 bucks,
300 bucks,
whatever it is.
but yeah,
I do know some people that hit those and then it's just like,
yeah,
I don't know the,
the,
the trenches it's so, and by the way i have you know other topics of
conversation besides the trenches i do just think and this is gonna be one of my hot takes for the
night and i was talking to somebody recently and i don't think they believe me and especially
coming from somebody who by the way i do have some cool updates around Donate.gg. And yes, we've literally been working on it full time every single day. I just, we're just so close
to like finishing a few different things. And we're doing this whole like rebrand relaunch.
But, you know, the reason I say that is the juxtaposition of what I consider to, you know,
to be like, you know, us, like we're building something that I think has some value,
has some utility, that sort of thing,
isn't a speculative sort of whatever.
On the flip side,
I do think the age of the consumer application
in crypto is dead.
And this is going to be more so like an over-incumbing
sort of like there's obviously nuance to it,
but I think in order to position the conversation appropriately, just to go out and say that i don't think there is such thing as a consumer
application in crypto and i'd even be um i'd even take it as far to say that um
well i'll just leave it there i think that it's like a really good spot i'm happy to bring some
people up if anybody wants to debate that but that is the thing is I think that outside of, and by the way, even with some of these new chains that are coming out and
some of these different ecosystems, I would say that if you don't have trade, it's, you know,
as I don't even recognize myself saying these things, but if you don't have like tradable
assets, meme coins, and that sort of thing that people are excited about, I would go as far to
say is that your ecosystem is not relevant. And I'm not happy to say that, by the way, genuinely not happy to
say that. But it's very much one of those things that if it, you know, if nobody's around to hear
the tree fall, did it actually fall? And you have these ecosystems, like, and by the way, it's
totally possible that we're so insular in terms of our surroundings.
And, you know, we become very, like, hyper-focused on the bubble that X decides to show us with the algo.
And I think that's very much a big part of it, that, like, maybe there's, like, a lot more interesting things happening in these ecosystems that you're just not exposed or that I'm not exposed to.
that you're just not exposed or that I'm not exposed to.
But it does feel like if there are not meme coins in that ecosystem
that people are excited about, that the ecosystem does just not exist.
And I think that not only has that become evident in terms of
just like my own personal experience,
I would say it's evident in terms of just the reality.
I mean, look at Zora, which by the way,
I mean, you want to talk about like perseverance,
you know, been around for a minute,
like the, you know, serious,
like I've had my complaints about Zora
and I think most of that comes
from probably losing six figures trading on that platform.
But I would say that, you know,
and like sue me for believing in something
right like god forbid I believe in something
you have literally like the president of San Francisco
launch a fucking coin you want to talk about connections to different projects
so on and so forth Gary Tan and you just get absolutely
punished for top blasting and I think
or even just not top blasting just
yeah and I said,
president of San Francisco, like the whole thing, you know, he runs it. And, you know, look, I think
that the timelines that we think of are very short, right? So like, maybe I'm just not thinking
long term enough, but I'll tell you this, my wallet does not know how to think long term as much anymore.
And I think the timelines have just become increasingly shortened as the
space has progressed. And it's one of those things,
it's that you're either relevant and you're not, or you're not. And,
but yeah, I mean like even, you know, Zora has, you know,
they took this approach of like, you know Zora has you know they took this approach of like
you know if like when Nick Shirley was popping off and all these different creator coins like
they would go out and pose and they'd be like it's up you know 50 percent in the day and this
sort of thing which is a very much different positioning than maybe what it was before and
then you even see more so generally in the Farcaster ecosystem,
a pivot from decentralized social to more so, yeah, like, fuck it, we're trading at,
like FOMO. By the way, FOMO is just like the runaway hit. And I wasn't like super convinced that like, and I don't personally use FOMO, and I can tell you why. But it's just like,
I do think it's like hard to have these conversations um without just like that is such a big part of
the ecosystem at this point and I think dictates most of the trading behavior um I'm not an investor
in FOMO I have no relation to the team or anything like that um and again I don't even use the
product but I think that's more so because I just don't really like public trading.
Even though a lot of my wallets have been like doxxed and yeah, some of my wallets are like at this point, like pretty well known, but I'm just not as much of a fan of public trading just because like I have this thing that I've been wanting to post for a while.
And it's basically the saying that I have, where if you wouldn't take the trade publicly,
just don't take the trade at all. Well, the reality is 99% of my trades, I wouldn't take
publicly. Um, so maybe if anything FOMO would, uh, stop me from making some of those bad trades.
But I do think at this point, um um it has just become such an um important
like you know aspect of how we trade where i know this person and uh she's on fomo and she
honestly gets lower entry and sees these coins faster than the groups that I'm in. Like she's in them at like 20K market cap because she's just on FOMO 24-7 and saw somebody
ape into something where actually there's like a little bit of a delay between that
and when it actually reaches the Telegram groups.
Which, by the way, is a big thing too, where it's like the speed of info and the ability
to access like what the, you know, good traders or like the traders with quote-unquote motion are
getting into that has been totally democratized there is like not that much edge to being in like
one of these telegram groups or one of these trading groups anymore because the entirety of
happening of these trades are just happening socially on apps like fomo and mostly fomo
right so that aspect specifically has changed trading behavior tremendously um and it has a
lot of positives too you have like the remuses um or whatever you know white whale and everything
that happened with it with that sort of trait but then you have it on the flip side too where it's
like you had cow just a couple days ago with this perpetual like who are these people there's like
oh hyper nine figure hyper liquid whale and they're
up like 500 m's and now they're launching this how does this keep happening every single day
there's like some nine figure hyper liquid whale that wants to launch you know their own trading
platform but you had cow and then you have all these like thesis underneath you know all these
trades on fomo it's basically like you know this, this is the next big one, it's the white whale. And by the way, I posted this a couple days ago, and I think this applies to damn near
every fucking part of the trading sector, where I said, if somebody tells you that like this shit
is the next goat, call the cops. I think that applies to any, you tell me this is the next
white whale, the next goat, the next Ralph, the next gas, the next anything.
It's almost just like a bearish signal.
And it's almost entirely a bearish signal.
And I think that at this point, nine times out of 10,
it has to be almost totally original in its moment.
There can be, like we had other AI coins, you know,
prior to, you know, this whole like bags meta um you know going crazy um but you can be original in your moment so it's like if even
if there's something like you know insert xyz coin um if it's the first one in a minute and
it has like a different positioning maybe like some different messaging around it you know that's
sometimes more than enough to keep it um to keep it fresh and make people pretty excited about it. Um,
and the bag stuff, like there's tons to talk about. I think, uh, you know, Finn has done a
tremendous job. I mean, that's just the reality. Like when you build a platform that's doing
multi a hundred million in volume in a 24
hour period it's just like the it doesn't matter like what you say the reality is is that's like
astronomically hard to do um you know i had a funny post about it i think it was yesterday like
fin logs onto the sap and doesn't know if he's like the worst person in the world or the best person in the world. And I think that's just the nature of
the industry where it's like, you're never the winner. It's just your time to pretend to be.
And the community never loves you. It's just like your turn to be in their good graces.
And I think the sooner you realize that, the more it becomes easy to kind of navigate good graces. And, and I think the sooner you realize that the more it becomes easy
to, to kind of navigate all of this, but, but yeah, it's been crazy. Like, I think compared
to where we were and I, what, like prior to November and even November itself, there's so
much going on. I mean, on a daily basis, there are six figure opportunities. And again, this is like
mostly centered around the trenches. I just feel like the trenches have not even become the trenches. They've just become
like the soccer field in the back of the school. Like everybody just goes and plays. And
I don't know. It just feels like such a big part of like the beating heart of what makes
the culture culture. Because even if you're not the one taking the trades,
even if you're not, you know, spending 24 seven,
trying to figure out what the next, you know,
push by the big people is going to be,
it does feel like the things that are running kind of dictate what the
conversation is clearly. Right.
So I think at this point it just can't be ignored that trading culture is the
culture and you're either part of it or you're just kind of like a tourist. And I think there's
nothing wrong with that either, but, and it's slightly toxic too, right? So, but I mean, look,
I have plenty of thoughts, but let's, I'll throw it over to Burden
real quick.
Burden, I've been seeing you do the, I've actually listened to quite a few of them,
usually on anonymous, but you've been doing a great job with the spaces and yeah, I don't
know.
What do you think?
Oh, dude.
Oh, I can't get this smile off my face, man.
It's just, it's been stuck ever since this space started.
Okay, by the way, before I continue, at any moment, if you hear a da-ding, da-ding, that means...
What the hell is going...
Is this what the new generation...
What have you guys been doing since I've gone?
I'm at my mother's bakery.
That is why.
I'm just saying that if I stopped, if somebody came...
I mean, this is... You guys have been letting this go on. You guys enabled this, by the way. i'm just saying that if i stopped if somebody came i don't i mean
this is you guys have been letting this go on you guys enabled this by the way i'm just gonna say
that this oh this cheese weasel this this twin and gang what is going on i just i'm trying to
keep up i'm i'm on miriam webster's dictionary trying to figure out what the hell these guys guys were talking about um chill um listen dude first of all um somebody somebody compared finn
to uh to frank i don't know if you see that comparison a little bit um i see it dude like
it's you're right like i can't even tell like do they love him do they hate him i have no idea to be honest i have
no idea um but on the trading side of things dude i i can't keep up man like i i just get
wrecked every time i go down there every time i get in the trenches i'm the one getting sniped
bro i get sniped so heavy i was uh trading with a friend of mine last week.
I was sitting with him.
You know Corey?
The Corey, I don't even know.
He used to be in a famous TV show.
It was probably your era.
I don't really know him.
Ruby, you don't know him.
Like Corey in the house you're
talking yeah that guy exactly yeah yeah so he launched uh like i don't know either but yeah
yeah that guy he like launched a coin and i like bought it at like i don't even know like 20k or
something and my friend was like all right this person's in this person's in all right the bundle
is about to get out in like three minutes so you need to decide if you're if you're if you're gonna sell right now
or just like you know let it run and i sold it and he was like all right watch they're about to
send it to 70k and they and like he was just telling me everything that was gonna happen
it's just another game these days dude i i genuinely like if you if you're not spending
like 18 hours man like i don't even i can, I can't, I'm just getting wrecked.
I'm this same way where I'm having a harder time just holding things like for a very long time.
Like that horse thing, dude, I don't know if you saw a horse, it went to like 2 million.
I saw it at like 200k and I was like, oh, you know what, dude, I like this.
I like this, it looks good, it's probably going to go to 2 million.
I put some in and I don't know why i set soft losses on my meme coins i just do before i
go to bed just in case it just goes to zero and then like i wake up the next morning and it's a
two million i'm like yes yes and then it's like my stop loss and i was like oh my god i missed it
um but i don't know dude i don't know it's uh it's it's it's a it's a weird game it's a weird
okay hold on first of all i don't know who this like cory in the house insider trading cabal
that you just admitted to but i don't know anything about that secondly this horse thing i
mean there's there's like 5 500 different horse by the way we're talking about the bnb ecosystem
for a second god forbid we have a fucking runner on solana they just can't let us have anything they just can't and i made this post because like all these different guys like i've never even
heard of these people but i'm learning about all of them they just deploy a vamp the second we have
any single movement and i i posted this tweet that said you basically have to like you don't
have a phd in mandarin philosophy to win on bnb and somebody was like oh that's like you know that's not true like
you clearly are just like bad skill issue let me read you the name this is not an exaggeration by
the way this thing went to like the stratosphere let me see if i can find the name of this coin
it was like six paragraphs long like because they um they trade yeah here it is by the way how do
you even dd a post that you can't even type even DD a post that you can't even type in
or a coin that you can't even type in
this was the name of the coin
10,000 miles of mountains and fields
you are the joy I hide in the breeze
that was the name of the coin
it was like the biggest runner
so it's just like a
totally different ecosystem
I don't know i don't
really as much buy what you're saying that you need to spend 18 hours a day like the as i said
like i know people that have been in the trenches for like six months they know nothing about crypto
and they just sit on fomo and they just like buy whatever top traders are buying and like yeah they
get cooked a lot of course um but they also have, like, entry into...
Yeah, I mean, this is, like, the earliest entry on all the biggest stuff.
It's, like, happening on FOMO at, like, 15K market cap.
That's just the reality.
So I just think that, like, you don't as much need access to, like, this, like, secret, like, group information.
And it's honestly kind of never been easier to find the big winners.
I do think it's still hard of never been easier to find find the big winners i do
think it's it's so hard to make money of course um because you gotta like hold through tons of
volatility and and buy like a bunch of bullshit before you find something that actually works but
um okay first of all first of all i didn't admit to insider trading i was just saying the difference
between skills like he was just watching like the bundle and under just understood the entire thing like on such a deeper level like you just
think you understand something and i don't know man like that those the trenches are just yeah i
don't know man i just don't understand them well enough i think but the bnb stuff bro i don't know
like like i i saw your tweet about it
where it was like dude you've got to know Mandarin
you've got to know the philosophies
you've got to go to a museum
or whatever you were saying
I agree I can't even hang with that
and that meta was insane by the way
watching everything go to 500 million
I don't really know much people that are
really still in it but I still see P&Ls
about it as well
I can't trade on B&B
anymore I had my wins I did okay on Aston I did okay on Giggle and like a few other things but
um I mean like they had a crazy runner this week you guys saw that article like you can fix your
life in you know in one day or whatever it is it got like you know 200 million views and uh
I'm also not a big article reader I just just think that like, for me, I really
like the bite-sized content that X is kind of known for, where it's like sitting down and reading
this like much bigger article. Maybe my dopamine receptors are cooked. But anyway, that got tokenized
50,000 times. I think this is a good kind of segue into the whole bags thing. But there was one that
was deployed on BNB that just had like infinite bids
and went to 10 mil and um so they basically kind of just like look for whatever narrative that's
popping in the west or in um or on salon or something they just basically deploy their own
and and that's it and then also there's a thing with like you think pvp is bad on soul
it is like a whole different game like if there's like a couple players like
i won't say their name but if they don't have entry on bnb they will just like launch their
own like 80 bundle bullshit and send it to the stratosphere without you you know regardless and
uh it's just like a very violent you know it's just a different game um but i think it's a it's
a good segue into the bag thing um Like I said before, obviously Finn is doing
a tremendous job, and I think that it's kind of out of his control, in my opinion, like if,
you know, the Gastown guy basically makes a post saying, like, thank you for the money,
like, I'm kind of just, like, gonna go focus on this. The thing that I think is really important,
and by the way, it's not easy like i'm not going to
claim to be like the master of this but i think in general like the inception of a narrative or
the inception of a product is like almost as important as it just like dictates it's damn
near its entire trajectory like the thing with bitcoin that people are really excited about
constantly and will and it's something that can never be pvp'd and never revamped and you never take away from it is that it has this immaculate conception this like otherworldly
ethereal like figure in satoshi that created this coin and um you know it became this whole thing and
it created the entire industry that we like we know and love um the thing with with some of
these bags coins is that when you and by the way when all the early
cyperpunks were doing the Bitcoin stuff like you know there was a ton of risk right like there's
always risk with like the underworld of the dark net and all the different ways that these people
were kind of moving back then and heavily watched by the government and if not the government was
involved themselves like who really knows but there was a lot of risk. And I think that having risk as an entrepreneur,
as a builder, as anything, there needs to be some sort of risk. Because without risk,
there's nothing on the line. And without something on the line, it's just not real.
It's just not serious. And I think that when you're creating coins for other people,
and this is just more so the BAGS model in general which by the way i think is and i've said this many times in the past before and by the way finn has also been a big supporter of
of me and donate.gg and and you know they donated money when we did the team water stuff and
whatever um so it's like nothing but love from that perspective. But when you're creating coins for
other people, they have no attachment to it. There's no sense of risk. They can walk away at
any point. And I think that considering a lot of the people that these coins are being created for
is more so like the AI crowd and that sort of thing. Those guys already fucking hate us.
And they already don't like us. And they already look at crypto as it's this massive scam and they already look at it like a bunch of grifters and i by the way experienced this firsthand when i did
the team water stream and i had not done a stream in like a year and a half you know it's just for
me it's this big thing solana retweets us like in
the first second there's like thousands of people watching live and it was uh my chat was basically
looking like kaisen at's chat going a billion miles per hour except every single comment was
claim the coin you bald-headed fuck like that was basically what it was like you're bald and you
have to claim the coin but you're also bald and it's just you know for basically an entire hour until we could ban these guys um and it goes
to the meme like please bro like i'm on my knees like you know accept the fees we did this for you
and uh so i think there's like this middle ground because you have like ralph wiggum who's you know
the the whole thing is like it's like the used, like clawed ships with it, like all these different things.
And much more of like an ambient sort of support by the person or even DeVito with Soul Tomato, where it's like a lot more like, you know, I don't know.
it was very different with Gastown.
It was very different with Gastown.
And that first initial blog post that the guy wrote for Gastown,
I think he wrote in it, he's like,
I want you guys to become filthy and then in italics rich.
And anytime somebody says that,
like, you know,
it's probably going to have as meteoric of a demise as it did its rise.
And all things considered in the moment that Gastown was
pumping, I was totally sidelined. Again, I sold at like 100K market cap because I bought it the
day it came out or like minutes after it came out. And it was like nothing. And the guy didn't
want to claim it. He didn't want to support it. And it just sat at zero for a week.
But I also like understand his perspective it's like
yeah you guys just like pestered me you gave me 300 racks and like now i have to like dedicate
my whole life like this guy's like an ai researcher you know these people a lot of these like ai sort
of like they're just vibe coding all day they're creating all these different things they're
actually like not super money hungry some of them are but a lot of them aren't like they're they're not making a ton of
money they're just like working on this shit and a lot of them are also doing it on the side
like some of the people that these bags coins were being created for had jobs work at google
work here work wherever and they're just like passionate about this like thing that they
created you know they deploy a repo on github and it kind of starts to get a bunch of stars, and everyone gets excited about it and whatever.
And next thing you know, you have a bunch of bags, DGens, launching a coin for you.
And you're on salary, maybe you don't have that much money or whatever.
I think there's a huge misconception that all these AI people are getting $ like $60 million, you know, annual cash comps from meta.
Like it's not all like that.
And yeah, next thing you know, basically these people are expecting you to tweet 24-7 and pump their bag.
And it is what it is.
And I also think that's like a fair, unfair expectation.
That being said, there is a middle ground. Like there very much is a middle ground. And I think the Gastown guy, the reality is, is he could have just tweeted a couple times a day. And if it slow bled, it's slow bled. Right? Like if it went down, it went down. It is what it is. I think just coming out and being like, fuck it.
Like, thanks for the money, but I'm out.
I mean, it was crazy when that post came out yesterday and it was already trending downward, by the way.
Right.
Like all the bags points were bleeding, but it was just like 10 mil to 1.7 in minutes.
And yeah, that sucks because it puns it. The top blasters, there's no, like the trenches will only be trenches if the top blasters are all destroyed.
That's just the reality.
The top blasters are what take it from the trenches to like fucking mainstream.
This is how we get coins to hundreds of millions of dollars.
This is the reason why nobody wants to fucking bid coins above 10 mil, above 5 mil, hell, even 1 mil.
I'm at the point where if something's over 200K, I genuinely feel like I don't have entry on it.
And I wait for the next thing.
Because the reality is, you know the ceilings are low.
You know the thing's only going to go like maybe to 1 or 2 mil.
And there was a coin today that was like 300K market cap.
I literally told this to somebody in the chat.
I was like, the entry's too high because I have to spend $3,000 to get 1% so that if it goes to a mil, I make 10 grand.
But I'm really only making seven.
And it's a huge amount of risk just to get that seven, considering 9.9 coins out of 10 are capped at the 250 to 300K range.
considering 9.9 coins out of 10 are capped at the 250 to 300k range,
which sounds insane because you see these runners,
Ralph and all these different things going to like 10, 20, 30, 40 mil.
But for the one or two that do, it's like thousands and thousands of don't.
And you have to filter through all that bullshit.
And you lose a lot in the process.
So I don't know.
It's just, it's definitely,
it's definitely a shame.
But in the ashes of the fucking disaster,
you have like the Phoenix reborn and literally just today,
you know,
24 hours after all of this gas town stuff happening yesterday,
you have USD one come out and say like,
we're rewarding all our traders.
You have,
you know,
pump fun doing the $3 million, which by the way, I think is a great idea.
Even if those investments that PumpFun does into those projects, like, doesn't, like, return, like, a huge amount for them, that's not really even the point.
I think it just, like, incentivizes, like, hey, we're here to support people that do want to actually build kind of like serious projects.
And there haven't been that many.
Like actually, Obby's on stage.
I don't hold Kled token because I think I said this like months ago.
I capitulated at the bottom. But we were talking recently about like some of the coins that have like won and kind of done well
over the last like six to eight months.
Dude, there's like two.
Like I think Kled is one of them.
Why did bags, like why did anyone bid that shit?
I don't understand.
What was the logic?
Like seriously, because let's say you have a token.
The only thing that brings intrinsic value to that token
is the buybacks that that happens with
or the utility and thing or ownership, right? There nothing else in between so if you're launching a token
with just the intention of making someone claim fees and it doesn't even have any like
attempt to even be involved in the product just why like in what world i wasn't even paying
attention when this was happening i was dealing with with my own shit. But I come back, and I just see, like, 500 posts about, like, bags, coins ripping.
Like, it just didn't make any sense at all.
I mean, you know what's interesting?
You're coming from a side where, you know, you guys are doing the whole, like,
and especially, like, a lot of those conversations post-believe or, like, all around, like, equity and this sort of thing.
So you have, like, that side of it where it's, like... of it where it's even aside from equity dude like let's say we took out
that completely from the picture and we just look at the token like if you're launching a crypto
project the reason you do it is because it has to have some sort of aspect or involvement in the
company or product you're building and if it doesn't you're literally just fucking stealing
people's money for fees that's it like and you, and you're just LARPing along. Like, is that not every bag token that just like exists
because other people are making it?
And the original, like you said,
conception of the product never had anything
to do with crypto in the first place.
And they had no intention of it doing it with crypto.
Like, why did it do well?
So, I mean, this is the kind of like thousand yard question,
which is I do actually, okay.
So let's say an artist
creates a piece of art if they say like this is my and you know we saw this with crypto punks maybe
this is like not the best example but crypto punks had v1s which were the original crypto punks they
were bugged that the smart contract was messed up so um larva labs came out you know they did their
new crypto punks which came out like slightly after and they kind of just
said fuck the first one even though on chain the provenance is there whatever these are the real
ones and that was this is just like an argument for nfts though no no but just like this is just
like hear me out first yeah so a lot of times with the creator and by the way i'm not saying that
this is like a a fair or this is the way things should be but i do just think that this is kind
of where the where the industry is is like if the creator of something just says like hey this thing is like
basically tokenized and i'm supporting this even though it is like very ethereal and ambient and
sort of like not that cohesive or um bound to any aspect of like reality in terms of how we would
think of like equity in a company or something like that's more than enough these days and that doesn't really make sense to a certain degree but in another way it does
and if like the creator of of ralph wiggum is like fuck it ralph is now tokenized um and we're using
the or or soul tomato right like the tomato that's being taken care of by by claude if he's
like fuck it it's tokenized and all of these are going to support claude like that's
kind of i'm not saying it's fair that's the way it should be but it's seeming in terms of the way
that the market reacts to this stuff they seem to like that and it seems to be enough um so yeah
maybe you don't like actually own the leaves on the tomato plant but like but you don't even own
the fucking the the like stems of the tree like you don't you
don't own shit like that is there's like literally no involvement it's like uh it's like i don't know
it's like adopting a kid and then just like leaving it alone and putting it in the in the
yard all day long like like you're not even like paying attention to it um they're literally just
like saying they adopted it and then like letting it be homeless that's like literally what it is i don't understand so i understand like sure market can be stupid but
like why was every single person on the planet just completely like retarded like there's no
other better word for it like what there was no involvement with that token in anything with the
company like i don't i don't get it so what about i look back to the prior ai meta you know in fondly which was like goat and all of these other things why did goat go to like a bill
or whatever multiple whatever it went to um it was really just the like it was created and then
they like sent the tokens to to the to andy or whatever like it what it had no attachment truly
to the to the project but like why did it go that high?
Like, what do you think?
I mean, I don't even know what that was, but I'm pretty sure that was all.
I mean, if it had no attachment to the product, that's also retarded.
I think generally speaking, like, this is all pretty.
Yeah.
I mean, guys, like, I don't think it's pretty hard to understand that, like, if a token is not involved with the product, then I don't know, like, what is the point of the token?
Like, you're just there to really farm people.
I think it's, uh, the way I see it is it's a very deep speculation game.
Like, you just speculate on how big that product or that idea or that whatever is going to become.
Like, how viral can it go like
and that's like the tomato one for example how viral can that really go in the world
um you know or like can it somehow like weasel its way into the news of like oh my gosh ai is
like you know growing plants like is that possible i feel i agree with that that's why like something
like pudgy penguins does well right but the difference is like pudgy penguins also like buys back a ton of their token, right? Whereas like these content creators are sorry, not content creators is a bad word to say. These like, like, basically people that are just claiming fees have no intention of supporting their token. There's zero involvement with them and the token. Like, it just doesn't make sense. Like from a logical standpoint, I think you got a fact like the people that are buying these coins are not like seed investors and open ai no for sure for sure don't
get me wrong i understand i understand fully yeah yeah yeah i get all that i i think look let the
market see whatever they want but i mean dude something running the 40m like that is like a
pretty universal level of a lot of people being dumb at the same exact time and i was seeing a lot
of really dumb posts about like this being the future like that yeah that is that's that's how
like this space worked right it's like it's like fomo you see big cable you see the ansem 50 or
more of the people buying that probably didn't even know what it was right they like they just
bought because ansem shield and Tractual,
it's bought and it's hype and it's AI
and everyone's, like, the consensus seems to be
this is really good and could go a lot higher,
so I'm just buying, right?
Yeah, I mean, look, I agree with you.
Yeah, yeah, I fully agree.
So, okay, then let me ask you guys this.
And by the way, all of this shit doesn't,
I mean, I don't think any of this has been making sense
for the past multiple years, so I don't know. There's never, even in the NFT days, it was like, I don't think any of this has been making sense for the past multiple years.
So I don't know.
There's never, even in the NFT days, it was like, I don't even know what the fuck you're buying.
But in an era that's like totally dominated by AI and AI is increasingly like just taking everything away from us.
You know, there's this saying, it's like, you own nothing and you'll be happy and whatever.
oh, nothing, and you'll be happy and whatever.
When everything is nothing,
really the only something that exists
in the internet world are just ideas and attention.
And I think there is some legitimacy
to the idea of tokenizing attention or virality
or even the movement or emotion
that's attached to a moment.
And I think that's really what's happening here.
Like you said, these are not seed investors in open AI.
This is not,
you know, this sort of thing. I do think there's an argument to be made around open source funding, though, the recipient of the open source funding 99.9% of the time is just kind of a bum. And,
you know, has no intention of like properly managing a tradable, like global, not, you know,
bound by geographical borders, 24 seven traded financial instrument.
And so there's like, there's like levels to it, of course. But again, I think that everything in
the future will end up being in some way, shape or form, just like a moment or idea on the internet
and your ability to capture value and attention around that moment is going to be your ability to, yeah, like that's going to be like the greatest superpower in the future.
And I think that like the more that, and again, I don't agree, like, look, if I fucking buy
like the soul, the tomato thing, and I would have some sort of like, you know, access to this dude's
research and work or something. And as it continues to grow,
maybe there's some other...
I don't know.
I don't know.
What do we expect them to become
is the question.
I think that's what I've always wondered.
I mean, I think if you claim fees
for hundreds of thousands of dollars
and take on a financial responsibility,
you're taking on all the investors
that invest in the token.
You have a moral obligation
to then put all your effort towards it.
So if you're doing anything other than that,
then yeah, you're just a bad person. Well, most people don't see it that way they just see it yeah that's the problem that's that's the problem because and again it like look
most of these people are going to just run away with money but i think it's a nature of design
that's bad by backs like that like let's be honest here if you're not launching the token for yourself
you're launching it for somewhere else and then like telling them to go claim the fees and then
they just claim it and have no intention of supporting it then don't claim it at all there's
like 500 tokens again under like avi patel i'm not touching any of them or didn't claim fees
on any of them like that like that's just not a good thing to do um but i also think it's a it's
a two-sided problem like the concept in itself
isn't isn't the best if i have to be completely honest i agree so like from a trader perspective
the upside like or at least the perceived appeal of something like bags is like we're forced to
buy utter slop every day like if you're like especially if you're like a full-time trader and
like everything is so finicky and rotational in the trenches because
everything is catalyst driven so it's like if you're just buying a meme it's like there's not
good people pushing it if there's not good catalyst if it's not some ultra viral thing
it's going to die instantly you're going to get drilled especially if you're a top blaster and so
you see something that has supposedly something or somebody backing it that you know has credentials
and whatever that seems appealing and whatever. That seems appealing.
And bags, I guess, like it feels like, okay, this is drawing in people who are accredited or whatever.
But again, the downside is that they don't feel tied to these projects
because they didn't create the token like you did,
like you're tied to the project because you were there from the launch.
It's not like some rando or like myself made it for you.
You have skin in the game and you kind of had a game plan from the start at least to some extent that's not the same
for these bags people right they just see the money it draws them in and then they're like what
the fuck do we do now and most of them just run off with the money so yeah i agree like the the
model is kind of warped um and you know me and us as traders we definitely reward that because we
just blast like anything you know anybody who's an accredited person, we blast their coin, give them a lot of money, and then they kind of run off with it.
There's kind of no standards to hold them to, I guess, if that makes sense.
And yeah, I don't know.
It's definitely not the best model at the moment.
So what's the alternative for funding open source, though?
Right.
I mean, that's I think there's an interesting question.
This is what we have today.
What should we do?
I don't know how potential launches.
Literally, founders should be able to launch when they want to launch.
And then if they launch, then they're bound to the thing they launched.
I think that's a good way to start.
I agree.
I think the founders should be launching themselves.
And I guess the problem right now is like, how do we get founders?
Just people in general onboard.
I have no problem with Finn, by the way, or anything.
Like, I just think the whole model is just completely flawed.
Like, you're literally promoting just the most degenerate behavior ever.
And you don't understand, like, over time, this, like, kills serious people from entering the space.
Because they're just going to keep seeing it as worse and worse.
Like, this is, like, just going to make it more degenerate. There's going to be like way
worse price action over time. You might not see it now, but you'll definitely see in the future.
It'll impact all the charts across everyone. So, you know, you asked the question, like, how do you,
all right, let me ask you this, uh, Mike, and I don't hold your token, but I did see when it came out.
And I know that it was like there was some buzz around it and some of the groups and people were excited.
And from your perspective, I don't really know your background, if you're like crypto forward or whatever.
Sure.
But normally, like forget bags, forget crypto, forget all this stuff.
Like how do you guys get funding for some of this stuff?
Yeah, so a little bit of background.
I've been in open source 20 years.
I started in the jQuery project.
I started a company around it, sold that company.
And then I've been contributing to open source
kind of as my second act for the last two,
two and a half years in the Elixir world.
So very familiar, volunteered in the Software Freedom Conservancy,
like the whole thing.
The model's broken, right?
There's a lot of devs who they just do it because it's their hobby
and it's just not sustainable.
So my thesis, and I've written about this,
and this is kind of, I want to see the open source
funding problem evolve, right?
I'm not claiming I have a solution.
I think the market's got to figure that out.
But something has got to evolve.
And I think tokens are going to be where that happens.
I think tokens are coming for a lot of things.
You mentioned tokens for attention a little bit earlier. I think that's a good place to start. But yeah, I think we got to go somewhere
to innovate. And I think speculation will drive that. We've seen speculation drive true innovation
in other sectors of crypto. I'm a little unique because I have a foot in both worlds. I've worked in crypto in the industry for two years,
but have been adjacent or involved for about six. So I know my way around the trenches, right?
I knew and saw what was going on with bags and had heard about it before all this kicked off. So
again, I think the key for me and part of why I leaned in was it's really important to take that energy of a token and turn it into something real.
I think the token is a, I've called it a vector.
There's a direction and a magnitude.
And as the person behind it claiming these LP fees, I've made the plan and the strategy
to turn it into something real.
We're figuring that out, right?
This has all happened kind of fast.
Funding projects, teaching devs.
Let's get some education content out there.
The numbers are small.
But I think this happens consensually.
Like I fully, everything you said is fully correct.
It's just like bags, like the model is just,
that's what I'm trying to argue at least, right? Like where it's just bags like the model is just that's the that's
what i'm trying to argue at least right like you should have launched on your own if you did that
on your own like anywhere else it could have done the same exact thing basically yeah but here's the
thing avi is okay so this is the main thing is that yes you're right i fully agree with you
but where like the where these devs get to kind of sit on the fence here a little bit is they're not
starting the coin they're also not really getting themselves involved by actually holding the token
when they claim the fees they're claiming pure soul like that is like pure trading volume and
there's no real like attachment besides afterwards of course like if they want to put out an
announcement and you know there is like a moral ground of okay when you do claim this there is going to be volume afterwards and there is going
to be trading happening because you claimed it but again there's not like a full-on attachment
where they actually launch the coin or anything you know and they don't want to do that i don't
think they want i agree but i think that's the problem because then it's just like feeding into
useless speculation on something that's basically useless that's like literally what that is that not what it is like yeah you're right but yeah you're right
you're right but also again and you can compare this to the last cycle of like ai coins and like
goats and how real was goat really it went to what over a billion and it was like what it was
supposed to be in like talking to itself in the back rooms and that was like no so the prior it was like the next thing yeah the prior iteration
of it by the way it's easy to look at this from like a perspective of like this is all fucked
everything went to zero and that is true it did all go to zero that being said there is an argument
to be made that it's like we have crept forward just a little bit compared to
the prior iteration of like i don't even know if zerebro was actually automated that might have
just been like jeffy typing to be honest and that shit went to 800 mil right like that was it it was
way worse before and i think the difference now is like there is a little bit more pedigree with
some of these people that are that are coming in but this is the main problem is the game has been solved why are like the best coins the one that came out at the beginning
of the bags meta like gastown ralph all these things and why are all the worst ones coming out
now the reality is fucking like claim hunters and like the people that are just like there's people
this is like the this is what the game has become if you really want to act about why these coins
are going to zero outside of like maybe there's like we talk about like they're not like worth as much and what are you getting for the coin and whatever.
But the reality is the trading behavior that's based on these coins.
You have kids sitting in an FNF group.
This is exactly what happens.
They sit in an FNF group and they basically look for people that have like GitHub repos and have a lot of stars and like whatever.
like GitHub repos that have a lot of stars and like whatever.
They'll go deploy the bags for them,
bundle the living fuck out of the coin,
and then basically pester that person into claiming.
And, you know, like,
and I actually have a lot of love for Finn
because again, like they've been super supportive for us
and like, you know, all this different stuff.
But I do think that's like part of the model.
Like Finn will basically post,
you know, you guys should be like bagsing anybody, everybody
all the time.
So, and again, I was on the receiving end of this.
There's a bags coin for me that has $30,000 sitting in it that I just refused to claim
that they created when we did the team water thing.
Like I could just go claim 30 bands.
I was just like, didn't want to do it then.
And I don't want to do it now.
Well, I think the model allows you to shirk responsibility, which that is kind of the appeal of the onboarding aspect,
because it's a soft approach of like, you didn't launch the token,
you're not holding it, you can just claim the fees,
you don't have that much responsibility,
which is why it's so much easier to onboard these devs to the space.
I also want to say, by the way, in terms of like ceilings being lower,
I feel like ceilings are inherently going to be lower on bags tokens
just because, again, from a trader perspective,
like sizing a bags token versus like sizing a pump token, for example,
it's just like with the tax and the LP and the weight,
like that's another aspect of it.
I think like they kind of got to fix their fee structure a bit
and fix, you know, some of those kinks.
That's a separate conversation. But yeah, I think there's a number of got to fix their fee structure a bit and fix you know some of those kinks that's a separate conversation um but yeah i think there's a number of aspects to that um definitely
rotational though and the thing things you mentioned of like the fnf aspect like yeah for
sure that's also an aspect the fee thing is so real i mean meteor did just post like a day or two
ago hey we hear you about the fees like the new things in audit so the question comes out is how much because you got to think okay so you have your trading terminals
right you have terminal axiom photon whatever they're taking their piece um you have the
liquidity pools they're taking their piece you have like the token launchpad itself they're
taking it yeah it's brutal you have slippage dude i'm not gonna lie like yeah like when you were
trading when we were trading eth coins back in the day, you lose like 50 bucks.
I've paid like 200 bucks for a fee or something.
But even that is cheaper than if I'm trading some, if I'm like trying to get out of a position that's like 50 or $60,000.
Dude, I'm losing to slippage, to this, to that, to whatever.
You could easily lose like five or $6,000 on the way out.
And it's just
i don't know like it feels like how do you create this like global state of trading when like
everyone's just getting cooked on every like i don't the fees on everywhere is just too high in
my opinion yeah 100 bags is really and again that's not even a slight to to fin it's just
like they have to have some sort of tiered structure like the higher that the market cap goes they could maybe so somewhat similar to pump i get like they
definitely need to solve that because ceilings are forever just going to be capped significantly
lower compared to other um launch pads just because yeah it's it's abysmal to size those
tokens you know uh you have to like so overcompensate with it has to just be the craziest
project and the craziest people pushing it to convince you to kind of size those those tokens, given the egregious tax and issues with LP and slippage and things that you just mentioned.
I do think just from like a trader's perspective, I didn't actually coin this term.
Somebody else said it.
And I think it's fair.
It's like from a trader's perspective, we do have just like better inventory to trade right now compared to what we were trading before.
We're just talking like November and, you know, the months prior to that.
There wasn't like that many interesting narratives or that many interesting ideas to kind of get excited about.
And even if, you know, even if these tokens are inherently worthless and all tokens inevitably trend to zero
um i don't know there's just like it feels like even if it's like short-lived it does feel like
there's innovation or something new and i think that's like something to be appreciated there is
volume and there is appetite dude yeah the moment that basically ansem wrote that post on gas
i mean there was like the avengers came out of fucking nowhere bidding like you know
500 soul clips thousand soul clips just like there's a lot of energy on the sidelines right
now and it's got to go somewhere it's like a balloon popped that's what i saw i saw it
and it's it's who knows when it'll dissipate everybody's waiting for alt season all the
things that just you know we've all been waiting for a couple of months because the timeline's off and this was hope this is all season we're in it right now those l2s are not
catching a bid unless the market makers on them want to make it look like there's a bid the the
the ai vibe coding is the alt season guys are we that fucking hopeless right now seriously no i
was actually i'm very optimistic
i was i raised my hand i was gonna say some very positive things no i'm not talking about that i'm
saying are we seriously thinking like this is all season like this is the saddest piece of shit
well what what do you well i'm not saying like we're at the peak of it but we are in early
innings early yeah what what do you want the all season to be do you want to bid another fucking AVAX chain
or do you want to bid cool AI vibe code apps
I mean
this is the closest we are to a meaningful
beginning of the all season
I'm not admitting shit man but I'm going to be honest
none of these apps were cool
this was not cool at all
there was no thought or process behind any of this stuff
there was just meaningless random
slop thrown around.
It was just pure.
I don't disagree with that.
Well, there's not a lot of precedent in the space yet.
There's not, for example, like a massive,
like massive success stories of like,
I know like what you're trying to do, Avi,
like I think you mentioned before,
like trying to make like tokenizable equity
or like kind of get to a point
where like things like that can be possible.
Like we don't have things like,
like what Leap mentioned, like we had like goat and these like slob five coded ai coins that went 500 mil plus like we don't have these crazy crazy success stories where you know
the token had true utility and it went to the next level it's like so our like bar is again just vibe
coded slop low yeah that's well i i'd like to say a counterpoint that
i think is very positive in the vibe coded slop space i think the negative and the positive is
that it was all based around like opus and there's always going to be a new model so you know i do
think that you know if everyone's doing claude 4D 4.5, they're not doing Kodak. Some other program for agents, you know, there's still more room for innovation.
But what I think is the one thing that BAGS app did well that I think is actually the future and makes a lot of sense when you consider the capex of AI companies is one of their conditions is if you launch a BAGS token and you engage with it and
you make it your own, then they'll cover the cost of the credits. And those AI credits will go up
in price over time. Like most of those credits are subsidized by VC capital, but the cost will
probably go up, right? Like the cost of the energy will go up. So I think there is a world where funding open source via tokens
in an exchange, getting valuable AI vibe code credits
is a net new thing that crypto can provide.
That is nice.
I agree.
That is pretty sick.
Is it sustainable?
I don't know if it's sustainable in its current form,
but there's something in that equation.
We just haven't solved the full equation.
But that model makes sense.
That is my entire thesis of why I dived in.
I haven't traded in almost a year.
I haven't traded in a year.
And I dived in for that reason.
I can't explain it yet, but I see something.
My ears went up.
They perked up big time when all this went off.
And the only way is to lean in, right?
There will be. So be so i mean we said
this last time too like i was super euphoric last by the way what happened last time around
code and zerebro and all this stuff i mean it's just what we're seeing now, like, Avi, if you think it's crazy that fucking slop town went to fucking 40, 50 mil, like, it was...
I remember there was this coin called Zalgo.
Zalgo was just an average launch.
No, dude, it was...
Generally, you could make six figures a day just being...
Like, it was fucking insane.
What was the best thing to come out of that whole thing?
Like, what, like...
Actually, here's a better question.
Name, like, the product, like, five of the the products i wasn't here when this was happening i have just
no context like what were the five tools that were like the top of the charts here okay i will say
these are see they're asking questions that you don't want to know the answer to the reality is
is that there wasn't that much that came out of it outside of the oh so fuck me in the asshole then love to hold on hold on everybody's talking about fucking everything look we had a fundamental
shift forward and at least conceptually in terms of like what tokens could be used for in regards to
to crowdfunding and fundraising and so on and so forth did that did anything like super oh we had
the virtuals right you could say virtuals came out of that i mean virtual was around before that jonah see that you don't that's a whole different thing but
virtuals at the end of the day is like a powerhouse in that side of things ai xbt all of
is it though i mean i think it's like rather important and like i think it was but is it
is it though like right now like the point is is that these things don't happen even in a year.
Sometimes they don't even happen in two.
And when you're talking about, and by the way, I'm not like a proponent of like AGI on chain, right?
Like I'm not, my thing with AI and crypto is I actually think that WorldCoin probably has the right idea.
Maybe it's the wrong packaging of the idea. But I do think,
I don't know, who knows, but I do think in a world that's dominated by AI and everything is
slop online, like things being cryptographically backed and on the blockchain and whatever might
be the only way to differentiate between a human and a robot. And that could be the entirety of
what AI and crypto looks like. It's just identification of a human in the future. I don't know.
Maybe that's what it becomes.
But these things don't happen in a week, in a month,
in a year, in a two year, sometimes even five.
And honestly, we may look back at this in 10 years and say we're still 10 years away.
Like, I don't fucking know.
They're long-term research projects.
You're nailing it.
And that's where I see a gap between the current crypto culture,
which is faster turnaround.
Nothing wrong with that.
But these R&D projects are longer term.
You're never going to solve for that.
You're asking about Gen Zs who watch TikTok all night to hold.
You're asking you have to
create something where it's not requiring these gen alpha kids who are cooked on fucking brain rot
to to hold unless they're getting like here's the thing there's a barbell like really good
companies people want to hold them like i see a lot of people who want to hold clad i think clad's
a genius idea like i could see gen z kids wanting to hold that for a long time.
But there's just so much slop on the other side of that barbell
that you can't ask an average trader to believe in your 30th opus rapper.
Because that's what it is.
It's just, you know, most of these people are talking research.
It's all just opus rappers.
There's no legitimate research being done it's
not even like a lack of belief because like what were the catalysts for why like ralph and uh even
though i think ralph is like way further along in terms of like something that's actually useful
um at least that's what people smarter than me tell me um compared to like slop town or any of
this other stuff yeah until something else gets it until the next thing
but but the um what was the catalyst for why all these things collapsed i i don't think it's like
a lack of belief or a lack of people willing uh the lack of liquidity no no no no it's just i mean
maybe that's part of it like over rotations but like what actually happened was basically you had
redwood js and a few of the other players basically
come out less than 24 hours after they had claimed their bags token and said that you know i mean
redwood js literally tweeted to the moon about their token well that one was definitely scammy
but there's some others like you're trying to make jonah is that like the same thing happened
with gastown is he wrote an article saying that he's stepping away from the token.
There were pure, true catalysts in terms of why these things collapsed,
which is basically many of the developers turned against Bags and the platform
and just said, we have nothing to do with this.
Have you met a developer?
The best developers are super introverted autists who are basically derivatives of vitalik buterin and then
you've got 10 000 gen z kids who are saying if you don't grab this coin i'll rape you no i i
understand you know like i understand it's it's hard that you can't make these people founders
they're not meant to be founders they're researchers and developers i i understand that but I think it is important to note that it's like, would things have been
different if the developer community as a whole didn't turn against the coins? Now, like you said,
it's like multifaceted. A big part of it is because the token community is super toxic.
That's just the reality. Dude, how could you even expect a dev community like first of all
all these people dming them purely trying to use them maybe like one out of the 1 000 in the bucket
are like you know what i think this dev deserves money i'm not even gonna get involved i'm just
gonna make one for him and tell him about it like maybe one actually not even a thousand like out of
10 000 maybe okay so first of all like the dev community
no like they are not gonna fuck with all this yeah but also it's like there's a lot of complaining
from a community that just got handed eight figures like god for oh no poor us like we got
all this free money like you guys just have to tweet like i think i agree i think there's false
on both sides like to act as if the dev community was
taken advantage of and like all this stuff like what the fuck no no you're fully right it is 100
these dumb fucks fault for like basically missed like if they're really that smart let's cut the
shit like you have to have a semblance of iq points to understand that if you're claiming
hundred thousand dollars of fees it comes with some sort of responsibility i don't i i think
you'd be surprised like you can have a high iq and a very low eq like there's different types of
that's fucking not go to jail queue like that it's it's pretty pretty simple shit man i i agree
that there's definitely some pretending or feigning ignorance but i'm sure there are a few
in there who are genuinely actually like socially retarded but they're like the problem is like
this is what i mean by sitting in the fence like they're just sitting in the middle because the
people that actually know what's going on and don't want to get involved i know these people are
literally just wanting to like put money in their own pockets wanting them to claim they're not
actually claiming like there's people that are like i'm not doing this i want to get involved
like leap for example right leaps a special case because he's in crypto.
But like the people outside of crypto who are accepting these things, again, they're just like, they're not thinking, oh, I'm so excited to be a founder for the next five
years.
Like that is that is not going through anybody's brain.
That's the aspect.
So, OK, look, everything we're saying, there's a ton of different ways we can approach it
where there's nuance and sometimes something is and sometimes it isn't but i think generally i don't think there was at least
look i'm i traded every single one of these coins every single one i don't think there was a single
bags coin that i did not buy or sell at a certain point um over the last week i was like locked in
20 hours a day trading these coins. So I'm losing money on
a lot of them. There was never an expectation from the traders, I'll at least say the people
that I'm around, the people that I see trading, whether on FOMO or whatever, no one's sitting
here thinking that these people are going to be fucking founders and build this thing into a 10
year dynasty. That's never the expectation.
And I think that...
Then why are people blaming them for leaving?
I think that if you say you're going to support something...
There's a difference.
I think if you say you're going to support something
and I'm here in the long run, let's all get rich together,
all this different stuff,
and then 24 hours after...
I absolutely agree with that point.
Because those devs are not dumb they're playing they're playing yeah those i agree those i agree it's the devs fault not the
deployer and by the way we say dev isn't like someone who launches a coin so it sounds confusing
i mean a real developer like a software engineer not someone who presses a button on pump fun
now i do think um you know so there's a whole conversation to like why this is happening on solana versus you would
think that ethereum would be like more conducive to like intellectualism and like you know this
it there's also a whole conversation around that um but i think like more at a high level
um there's a lot of negative to take from this stuff,
of course, and a lot of people got burned. If you want to look at it from the positive side,
I do think that tokens as a fundraising mechanism have proven to be pretty sticky. And even from my
perspective, from like, we're doing all this charity shit i will say that the most successful
fundraisers at least to happen um in the past like 12 months um charity wise have all been driven by
tokens as well um like giggle generated over 12 mil in a month so like there's it's clear to most
people that tokens as a fundraising mechanism are like here to stay and it's how do we capture this how do we use it the right way um but yeah maybe like everybody creating tokens for others
and then forcing them to like there's going to be some adjustment and i'm sure finn and crew
will kind of look at this and say like how can we do better for the next next push of this stuff
now they're gonna say good shit family ate off that twin i don't think i don't know like i've
talked to finn in
person and like they're i'm just kidding i'm fucking around they're pretty excited about like
how this stuff can actually be used and they seem motivated like even all the stuff with the
the claw credits and this and that like they're making moves they're making good moves and i see
the claw credits for launching a token i think is the one thing they did that i
actually believe has changed the trenches forever i don't think people realize how significant that
is that is a fundamental shift from what pump fun started with the idea that you could get these
credits which by the way will will go up in value right they will because right now the costs are run by capex on vcs right this will go up in
cost the idea that the only way to get the best compute is to launch a token is very attractive
because now you're not offering money you're offering energy you're offering the cost of
energy to make this product exist that is very very powerful. I'm interested to see now, like Pump,
they released their, you know,
like the Pumpathon sort of build-a-thon,
you know, if you have 10% of your token
and this sort of thing.
That's actually what my question speaks to,
Leap, if I can jump in.
Sorry, I've been raising my hand for a really long time.
It's been a bit since I came up on stage it's great
to see you guys but the the difference between a product being launched on a platform like pump fun
and i don't know that much about bags app but like to me meme coins seem like they're mostly
about ideas and marketing like concepts as opposed to a product that developers are building.
And so that seems in direct tension, for example, with the way the SEC has defined what a meme
coin is and exempted it from certain classifications as like securities.
So if you wouldn't mind, as you continue on this road with the PumpFun hackathon, to touch on that, I would be very grateful.
I mean, I'm probably the worst person to touch on.
None of us are lawyers, but what I find interesting, and I'm just, because literally I've looked, not a single one of us are lawyers.
Like, could you consider Opus Credits a security?
I would say probably not.
It would be a commodity, right?
It's energy used to produce something.
And I just want to harp on that
because there's a lot of negatives you can take away from this.
But the idea of offering god energy
or machine god energy for launching a token
is the most interesting thing that happened
with this
uh this stint of meme coins or vibe coins whatever the fuck you want to call them so
god and energy is like a whole well i i make the joke machine god ai i mean it's you know but yeah
there's actually probably a lot we could talk about even just around that it's kind of crazy
to think about but we basically do have just gods in these computers and now you can just kind of pay for them to do stuff it's pretty
bizarre but um i think in terms of you know what you're asking lauren i mean look i'm not again
like i'm not the most qualified if any like i'm not qualified at all um i mean i think even
probably avi would have more um insight on some of this stuff than me because they've worked with more on some of those aspects. But I think like at this point, I mean, like Trump launched a meme
coin. And like, after that, it was just like, everybody do whatever you want. And in terms of
like, how that, like, are these securities? Are they not? Like, what are devs allowed to say
versus what they're not allowed to say? I have no clue like we're kind of i feel like we're in that time where we're just going
to find out by fucking around and um 100 that is i mean yes the rules are pretty like they're not
really that hard uh one buybacks are like you know they have to be destructionary these like
flywheels are all illegal like just like i don't it's hard to break it to people but like we should like flywheels are not legal like they
have to be either automated or they have to be discretionary it's two things uh no talking about
price that's pretty obvious like i think uh if someone's saying we're going to send this to the
moon that is literally a violation that's an SEC violation that's's bad. And then saying this token is literally a security is a problem as well.
So there's three main things.
The rest is all pretty much kosher and you're not going to get any huge trouble with it.
And then on the launchpad side, you can do almost anything, but there are problems when
it's...
Again, the launchpad can't say this is a like again the launchpad can't say like this
is a security or a launchpad can't say like the point of these tokens to go up in value
it all stands around these three rules and same thing with buybacks um so that's like pretty much
all you got to follow well actually i've spent a little time in the trenches lately. I know Leap, you know me as being more art NFT focused,
but I'm fascinated by memes as digital culture
and like the way that they relate to the economy.
And so one of the things that's been very surprising to me
before the announcement today was like
the way that people would invest on pumped up fun coins
that claim to be like AI, like actually be like good tech.
Like I thought people were joking,
but like there were really people that I think people believe
that they were investing in technology or like a protocol or whatever,
which squarely puts it,
I think pretty clearly puts it in the bucket of security, like you're investing
in a team and a product. But everyone believes they're investing in real equity in all these
companies, when in reality, they have no equity ownership in any of these companies. Like, so
that is a, like, everyone does believe that, but it doesn't make the asset security. It's just
mass retardation. It's like two different things.
Right.
So my question is, Avi, I appreciate that comment.
Do you think that this announcement and this like pump fund from the pump fund team
is predatory on that ignorance on the part of their users?
I think everything is predatory on the ignorance.
Bags is predatory on the ignorance.
Every launchpad is predatory on ignorance.
The entire space is predatory on ignorance until you have like real ownership
which is like i mean i'm not going to shill it but i'm pretty sure that that's like the only
thing that solves all this shit um the rest of it is literally just like like the reason icm did
well is because people thought they were getting literal equity in these companies because ben
pastrmax like a actual just dirty dirty scammer right like that is literally it all of these were predatory all
of these did well because they were misleading the public um and people are stupid across the
board like so um if you want to do the right thing you figure out like ownership if you don't then
don't call it ownership like none of these tokens are really in any sense ownership again they're
not violations by any means in that sense but all of these launch
funds are predatory across the board especially the ones that are calling it ownership when it's
really not i never just for the record i never thought i was owning shit when i bought any of
this stuff i think i said retards you know like i think there's a 10 that's like have have a
semblance of an iq point but other 90 is like pretty retarded i would so i don't think to be honest i actually disagree i don't think anybody
is like thinking they have a stake in the company at all or anything of the sort like genuinely
they're just like this narrative is good enough to buy i'm buying it and whatever x like they're
getting out like i don't think any of them actually you know i mean not in this new
stuff but i was referencing specifically when the icm shit was popping off like they they all
literally thought they had ownership in the company because ben pastner was hopping on spaces
saying that token is going to equal equity like quite literally said it twice yeah but that's like
that's ben fucking ben you know i don't know no i, I mean, to be fair, I mean, even...
His physiogamy was a big tell, to be honest.
To be fair, I think that, you know, that there was this, like, idea around...
Because, like, I interviewed Ben twice on the stage,
and, you know, our conversations were always, like, good and cordial,
and, you know, I traded all the believe coins and i it uh i mean there
was this belief at the time that there would be some sort of like i mean i even asked him like
some sort of like legal uh like are you guys providing the legal framework for these projects
to basically like issue equity with their like like that to me was like what i thought it was
going to become and and to be honest and like i'm not here to like dog on anybody or whatever. Like the
reality is like, I know a lot of people that got cooked on that trade. And, um, like it, it's,
it's like livelihood for a lot of people when they like really believe in something and are
down like 90%. Um, and it, with no chance of, of coming back. back um that was just like a i do think this is gonna sound
so crazy i think ben could have been a fucking billionaire and i think that he could have owned
the entire multi-billionaire if he had a semblance of a fucking brain in that soul dude multi-billionaire
it was an insane concept would have changed the entire startup world permanently it would have because
like the reality is like we've been around for a minute like not like super ogs but like even
burning we've been doing this for years like just being in crypto whatever it is rare to have a
single individual that basically in like unanimously the entire industry is like yup this is our guy we want him to win
or put everybody put their chips on the table let's send this thing to the fucking moon and
he could have become a big lobbyist and done the whole um you know uh brian armstrong thing of going
to the you know dc doing videos on it trying to get it would have probably would yeah what a hit
he could have done literally anything, man.
Literally, like, he could have fucking, like, you know, not, you know, I'm not going to.
Another Birkin for Evelyn Haas.
Yeah, you know the phrase, man, you know?
There is always, like, look, I'm not going to pretend to know what's going on behind the scenes or whatever,
but I will say just from, like, someone who was, I feel like I was intimately, like, trading all of this of this stuff from like when it was pasternak coin to believe to this to that or whatever i i the
same way i've traded every bags point i traded every fucking i was probably the biggest holder
on damn near every single one of the coins that came out on on believe and uh
probably like now you can now you can buy ben pasternak's belief score man come on now like
listen i put ten dollars on doubting him i wonder where that money is now you can now you can put
fifty thousand dollars on nikita beer going down whatever the fuck that means i you know it it
honestly just like it like outside of the money outside of all this stuff like it is a
shame because again it is like very rare especially like solana's like a hyper competitive ecosystem
like even with like sometimes more so in theory only have like these like researchers everyone's
like this is our guy whatever in solana it's super competitive it's super like in in the best way
possible right like it's fast moving like there's always new people there's always like something happening and very rare does everyone just like unanimously agree this is our
guy and i think the idea of like issuing equity on chain and doing it in like a trench native like
sort of like finger on the pulse culture sort of way where every single solana community member
basically had ground like level one access to these like asset
like it was the perfect setup and i i just can't like if i'm just being like intellectually honest
with the discussion it's just like i feel like it was one of the biggest fucking fumbles that i've
seen of all time it's not even close bro oh my god i think um i mean i don't think he could have done that much
about the the on-chain equity i mean i think he had to just be like the front-facing influencer
of like no being a political he literally could have bro i've no i'm saying he could have yeah
but i'm saying and the problem is he'd have to actually sit there and work on this for a few
years yeah no no not a few years.
I do that.
I mean, I don't want to leak anything.
No, I think it's a few years because we're literally, we're just now, which is a huge
positive.
We're just now negotiating the market structure bill around allowing yield because banks are
already trying to derail that.
Which is, by the way, you want to get a bunch of people on chain.
You want to get those boomers with the 401ks get the yield the yield is worth more than the than the securities rules right now
which we're very close to getting or at least i think we are i mean he could also try to get like
a no action letter like that's literally what we're doing right now yeah that yeah that could
have helped too really not hard like i'm gonna be honest like this conversation is like the most
noble conversation to have you go to the sec you tell them like look all these are basically shit and like people want to feel like a part of the
journey and people don't want to get fucked over our investments like let us do this and like
they're pretty reasonable like i've had these conversations like they're they like this was
not hard to do like ben bassner could have like sat down and put any effort and like pulled it
off pretty easily if he tried i think beyond tokenized equity though from a trader perspective again for us it was just like okay
even even if we're not like like tokenized equities and something that's going to come
anytime soon it's like it just felt like he wasn't delivering on any promises yeah also that i will
yeah flywheel this night like the i mean if you were that's why we'll commercial was extremely
cringe i almost killed myself watching that but there was so much more than that if you were that's why we'll commercial was extremely cringe i almost killed myself watching that but there was so much more than that if you were a traitor i mean it was so obvious that he
was a scammer i don't like i was literally up on the stage when you were interfering and basically
calling him a scammer leave like my respect for imran and alliance down which is zero after well
there was that and then there was also like if you were a traitor you remember how egregious the
hacking and extraction was during the time like hackers would go and farm and then multi, multi
six figs, seven figs extract. And there was no mechanism, there was promise mechanisms. Oh,
we're going to do anti-sniper tech and we're going to address the hackers and this. And there
was none of that as well. And it became such a, like a gamble to even like nobody had any faith
whatsoever. And he wasn't delivering on his promises. I think that was a big downfall for traders. I mean, you got to understand,
again, from a trader perspective, we're talking about an ecosystem where we've sent like AI,
chat, GBT, Pepe derivatives to multi-nine-fig market caps. It's not so hard to imagine that
we could blast what seems like, oh, a good founder launched a coin, even if it's not tokenized
equity. It just seems like somebody good, someone solid that's backing coin.
We'll blast it at 9-6, even if it has no real utility.
It's not tokenized equity.
We just like something good.
A good founder consistency goes a long way in this space.
And yeah, I think Pasternak really dropped the ball just on it's not delivering on basic promises beyond the tokenized equity thing.
It's not delivering on basic promises beyond the tokenized equity thing.
I almost think that's like the Achilles heel of this space, though, is that like we are so eager to believe in anything like.
Like, I don't know. I feel like I've not like it's just so obvious that these people are scammers.
And yet there's time after time there's things that we believe in that.
Like, I'm sorry, barachain was clearly a scam
from day one like i don't know how you ever believed in it and like things like this it's
like we're so desperate to believe in something that like you'll just put aside all logic and
pump this thing because your bag goes out so i think okay so this is where like the conversation
gets hard because it's like what is a scam and what's not a scam? I'm not
gonna talk about anything specific, but I will say in general, there's a lot of times where
I've talked to people and I truly believe I'm like, this person is, they really want to make
this work. And then it just doesn't work because maybe they're not qualified or they just weren't
skilled enough or just, they got unlucky. There's like a billion different reasons,
but then the community calls them a scammer. But I think from the recipient standpoint, like if you lose 90% on something, like it
doesn't really matter what the reason is like that.
Fuck that person.
Like you're a scammer.
Like I understand that.
But, um, I think it's just, uh, no, dude, I think it's more obvious than that.
I think there are like clear signs that people ignore.
I also agree with it.
It was like so clear.
Like maybe I drank the Kool-Aid.
I don't know.
I think there's like willing,
it's willing ignorance in multiple cases.
It's not even as willing.
I mean,
dude,
it's willing ignorance day after day,
multiplied by 20 every single day,
multiple times in a row,
privately and publicly.
Like,
I mean,
guys,
like,
like it didn't take a fucking genius to know Ben Pastrack was scamming.
I called it out when,
believe it was at 200 M bro. Like that, like i first want to leave and i wasn't i wasn't even basing
off of public shit i was basing all private stuff too like the guy just wouldn't respond to anyone's
tms like he he was literally jacking off all day long and then that's fine if you're building
something but like he didn't put out a meaningful update on his god forsaken app in the 18 months
that he was working on it apparently
like like let's let's i mean come on like this was obvious yeah it's um that was the thing to
me that like also with it look like we're all like it it takes time to ship anything and anytime you
think it's gonna take one month it takes long like things just take a while that being said
that was to me like the biggest indicator that there probably wasn't
going to be a recovery among some other stuff it's just like what like why is nothing happening
like why is it so long between like we're not talking like weeks like six seven months between
updates eight like that that's where it gets like a bit surprising and um you have to wonder like
what was going on um but uh going on man nothing grease trips was going on. Nothing was going on, man.
Nothing.
Grease trips was going on, dude.
That was going on.
The nice Japanese hotel.
That's what was going on.
I will say that are too small.
Imagine taking a woman on a private jet
and she tells you it's kind of small.
Guys, all right, hold on.
I don't know how we even, where fuck word. Yeah, I don't know
Unhinged wait, can I just can I just interject for a sec? Cuz you have guys
Yep, sorry. Go ahead razzmar. That was from from prior
Oh my god, okay now I can talk
Someone was saying like it's obvious to tell when something's a scam. I think it's really not like
you know, some people think everything is a fucking scam you know what i mean like obvi like don't you get called a scammer like you know what i'm saying like yeah so it's like it's actually
not obvious to people okay maybe not a scam i don't know but again but you gotta remember where
is the liquidity coming from?
Who are the people blasting these coins?
There are people that are 17 years old with multiple seven figs that are in high school.
They have no idea about AI that are blasting these coins because they just think it's good.
And someone in the Telegram chat said it's really good and they trust them and they put six figs in the chart.
It's like, you know, like to be honest, you've got to factor factor that in like a lot of the people blasting these coins have no idea what the fuck
they're buying and also jack we want to we want to like here's the reality so it's like sometimes
we just want to believe in it's pure ignorance and again i've drank the cool dude i've drank
the kool-aid so many times and i'm not perfect but like i don't know it's like you just want
to fucking believe like this could be it. Like,
this is the moment, not only just for the industry, like this, you know, companies on
chain, whatever, but, but like, even maybe selfishly for yourself, like you're looking
at your fucking bag. This thing is, you're like, wow. Like I actually like hit the right one,
the right project. Like, this is actually the one and we're going to get, this is going to go to the
moon and we're, you know, this is everything we we worked for and all this stuff so i think it's just like multiple factors these things are super
emotional um and people want something to trade like jack you said it and it's honestly so fucking
true there is an insane amount of capital people just like they say there's no liquidity there's
still a ton of liquidities and there's huge appetite to bid good stuff there's just nothing
that really you can feel comfortable throwing fucking a hundred thousand two hundred like this is why at this point if i don't have
entry under a mil under 500k under 300k i'm like what am i even like who is the marginal buyer
that's buying after me at five mil nobody because nobody nobody who could top blast is like they've
been hurt so many times. They've been fucking.
Yeah, it's just I don't know.
Isn't that directly related, though, Leap?
And sorry, I lost audio before, so I had to dip.
But isn't that directly related to deteriorating principles?
Like, I feel like as long as I've been paying attention to the meme coin space um the bar has like gotten lower there was a time when
people were like oh no if an og coin has bonded that's the coin and now it's like vamp city
there's one very interesting example very recently with tit coin which i think is a hilarious meme
um like a an exceptional meme in the way that it's very easily funny and like the
reference is recognizable and the branding is strong and it's like boobs like guys like boobs
you know what i mean like but then someone else launched another one and now it's like what like
oh vamps are like that's okay now so that's gonna be the one like is an exchange gonna list
that it was the same people so the so i was like a heavy early buyer of the original tech coin sub
one mil and uh like the the same people that are that are doing the new one also did the old one
from my understanding i mean i don't know like someone can correct me if i'm wrong but like
um and then you have also like another example of that with buck coin now which also
i've been a pretty heavy buyer like sub one mil of um and there was another buck coin that like
went to 40 mil during the whole tick so like that raises the question of like uh you know like what
what is provenance well that's the that's advantage, by the way, of why traders, like just traders in general, including myself, like we love at least the potential of like AI meta and things like that because PVP does not exist, right?
When you have someone that's backing it, you know, it's like you don't have to worry about some FNF.
Like all the message, the creator of the owns the cat Instagram page and they posted a different CA and now this
one's flipping and they're two coins and two mil market cap going back and forth.
Like, you don't have to worry about that if the founder dorses the token, that's the one
that's going to go for better or for worse.
So and again, that's why we are so much more willing to blast tokens like that.
It's why when Believe came out, there was so much liquidity injected into those tokens
because they're like, we're excited to be even during ccm meta i think about that it's like when you eliminate that aspect of pvp
and whatever it it just makes trading conditions feel so much better you know wait but jack are
you saying that you don't believe that uh and i'm not like trying to drop a tick or anything i'm
totally sidelined on everything because it's confusing and uncomfortable but like are you
saying that you don't believe that ip exists when the exact same posts are being used to promote
of like second version and i understand like there are main accounts and but when exchange
listings are in play at least with like major businesses like Kraken, and like I think it's on Moonshot, for example, there are probably other examples of this too.
This is just like the one that I'm aware of that I think is really interesting.
Is IP valuable at all?
Because it seems to me that that's like literally the definition of a meme is marketing and ideas concepts images and
that's where it's interesting to me because i'm really interested in art and conceptual art
specifically uh it's tough i think like to the average like trencher they could care less i'll
be honest it's like if you have like a founder doing an ai coin or something it's like that's
a completely different story but if it's just like a meme, and again, the landscape of the trenches, oftentimes you're with an artist.
It's not too many examples I can think of where it was artist first or creator first.
So for example, Matt Fury, Pepe, we can think of all these different examples.
Typically, it's like community makes a meme, goes high, and then the creator comes out, either fuds the original or makes their own.
And then there's this sort of PvP aspect that's kind of a little bit of a separate conversation but um i mean
i think maybe ip can be respected a certain extent but yeah pvp i mean it's a problem um
i don't that to me again the only like true solution to that it's like is you have these like
truly pvp list tokens that are like one of the only examples i can think of is this
sort of like icm sort of or ccm meta where it's like you're not going to pvp rasmus coin on his
live stream coin that's his coin you know as opposed to like a meme or something like that
which there's endless ways you could you know find the original person or this person or you
know whatever it's just bigger kols back another one you know whatever the original person or this person or you know whatever it's just bigger kols back
another one you know whatever the case dude can somebody you know this they were just talking
about like appetite in the market and whatever and it seems to be that every time i the one night i
decide to open a space there's like some fucking runner um wait what's running right now what is
if anybody's like in the trenches trading what is this like npm run dev bullshit on on bags it's just like went from zero to six mil in two hours like what
is this does anybody i'm getting fomo notification from frank nice on the same coin i got pinged
about like an hour and a half ago and i'm like oh no like i need to focus on the space and then of
course it's like the one coin i don't buy today that goes 200x.
So, I mean, that's how you start your dev server.
Dude, I literally...
That's kind of funny.
I just went into their Twitter com and the pin post.
It's like this doc's dev and it's like, it's me.
And it's just saying it's me.
It's me.
Oh, God.
Yo, do you know about it, Asta?
Like, what is it?
Yeah, it's like this gay adev who's like hella gay,
made like NPM and sold it to Microsoft years ago
and is spam claiming on this coin.
And like, literally nobody I know is in.
And it's just mooning.
And yeah. So I just saw it's like
i literally just saw a message that said the chinese are bidding like who yeah who is buying
these coins like it i don't know this is like completely what i mean this blew past every
it's at seven mil now just like straight up like what is going on with it yeah bro like like I saw this
funny screenshot it was like it was like this person DM them like yo claim these fees um
claim these fees and the coin will go retarded and then like the person responded and said
please don't use the R slur and they're just mooting this coin bro I don't get it
I don't get it me personally are you get it, me personally. Are you in?
No, bro.
I'm just in bed like a chud.
Damn, that's so... I mean, this is like...
I haven't seen a...
The chart doesn't even look real, dude.
This shit's being painted by Mona Lisa.
I think this is a bigger issue than people think
or people acknowledge
is the problem of things going to market caps
that don't seem to logically make sense
at all like like what what i haven't looked into this one specifically but you know
we had like the we've had some dumb go to go to 35 mil let's just say that last week yeah but we
had mudang go to multiple billions right so it's just like you know
yeah like i don't even know what's considered like worthy like is white whale truly worthy
of 200 mil like is do we consider that worthy i don't know okay i think there has to be a
president established guys these market caps are not actually their market caps right like gas
down is not a 35 mil token you gotta like maintain the market gap like months to be like
proudly say like we're worth this
much like it is worth this much you're acting too intelligent you need to retardify yourself
i'm just saying i'm just saying like this is like gas town was worth like five dollars
top like not the actual price like the market cap like let's let's cut the shit
yeah to be fair okay so just speaking of these type of coins i was in two different
japanese coins recently okay and the japanese they the way that their coins move is like nothing
you've ever seen before like they'll have like 3 000 people in the phantom chat like span you
can't even read it you don't even know what they're saying uh but they're just like the phantom wallet phantom dude you want to talk about an indicator for like people use that go go look at
it right now like there's if you look at some of the especially when the japanese coins are going
crazy are they writing in japanese yeah it's all in japanese but that's amazing and there's no like
auto translate feature so you don't really know what they're saying but i was in two japanese coins recently and uh one of them was like uh it was like 114514 and i like i don't know i bought like one percent
at like 1.3 mil or something but it was like flagged to me a little bit early and then it was
just like over i didn't know anybody else that bought it i'm just like this is like really weird
and there's like some weird movement on this thing. And like over the next three or four days, it just like went to 60 mil.
And it was like, and the, the, the, the mass majority of that move happened like in a short
period of time.
And, uh, and then it, and then like, I went to bed and I was like up $600,000.
And, uh, I think I like, when I woke up in the morning, it was like literally from like
when I went to bed at like 3am to when I i woke up it was like down to like 15 mil or 14 mil and then
just like continue to to drop after that but um the point is is that there's like some really
sophisticated actors who know how to fucking move these coins and they by the way they did it again
yesterday they did it with um it was like z real like
something or other very similar situation and it went to like 30 mil and they just like hard
rugged it so like people are getting like really good at just like making these coins fucking fly
um the tools are getting more sophisticated and um it's easier to like gamify the amount of holders
and unique buyers and that sort of thing. So I don't know.
Obviously, right?
Like if something's not holding a market cap for a while,
like it's basically just like smoke and mirrors.
What's up, Jay?
Yeah, I just wanted to speak on that.
A lot of people don't understand that a lot of these tokens
are heavily market-made on what's called the ladder effect.
Just think of a sandwich, but it's called the ladder effect. Just think of a sandwich.
But it's also it's the ladder effect. It's it's two accounts separately attached to each other.
One buys, then the other account sells, the other buys, the other account sells. And it keeps doing
until trying to sandwich enough people to get into that momentum. And then the thing flies and
it will keep doing it until either the team or the market makers just don't want to play anymore and that's when you
see crashes like crazy because at the end of the day these market make ladder effects are the one
holding up the coins yeah yeah it's basically the people like the reason why the coin went to
five million is because uh people coordinated it up there.
And then once people blast at 5 million and send it to fucking 10, then those people just are going to fucking dump it and they're going to make hella bad.
It's transactions that's really fast.
If you could just stay on chain just for 10, 20 minutes, you'll see the endpoints and endpoints and see the direction.
10 20 minutes you'll see the in points and end points and see the direction like if a token like
you'll see a lot like to be honest there's not that many people trading that can really spin up
volume like this right and at the end of the day it is market making right like um you could just
see the ins and outs on literally wallets and you'll see about 10 wallets go in 10 wallets go
out 10 wallets go in 10 wallets go out out, 10 wallets go in, 10 wallets go out. And by that
time in the, in between is retail or just trenchers trenching. Right. And so you're pretty much
playing the crash effect. Um, will they pull or will they keep running it? And pretty much that's,
that's the whole game right now. Yeah, it is the game. Um,
and they'll always like pull it in the middle of the night when no one has a chance to
chance to sell um spider i saw uh yeah i mean you're like posting about this shit or you're
putting stuff in your telegram or whatever like what's the by the way you're also like
tweeting 500 different coins a day so i don't really know but what's the what's the god damn it i really am oh no dude when i see spider like oh no when i see that i actually bid i'm not even trolling like
i bid half the time like that's my in i'm not even trolling i appreciate it when you start
i i i like um i i just share a lot of shit on my journal but i kind of took my journal to my
twitter a little bit more and i tried to share more but then i've been getting a lot of shit in my journal but i kind of took my journal to my twitter a little bit more and i tried to share more but then i've been getting a lot of criticism from you know some
of the best shares honestly zinc um you kind of gave me some feedback until i actually stopped
showing so much my twitter so i'm just gonna keep most of my telegram but yeah i wrote like a thesis
on npm at like 500k 600k and i bought like one percent of it i'm i was on a walk because i'm
building a new startup right now. Just sell it.
What I do now,
I don't know why I stopped doing this, but I used to set
DCAs on projects where I bought into them
and I would just sell on Jupiter.
I would just keep a recurring sell
every single five minutes. That's when I used
to make money. I stopped doing
that for some reason, I think because I was just greedy
or desperate to try to make back my money.
It's helping me a lot to kind of control my, like, selling habits.
And, like, yeah, I think I just need to do a better job.
I actually have, like, a pretty high hit rate on my journal.
Apparently, there's this text called Aries.
And I think some of the guys, like, they did an analysis of my journal post.
I actually have, like, a 60% win rate.
But the problem is I'm fucking retarded and I never sell anything. And like, I mean, that's the only type of retardation
that make you hold Trump to like 70 mil and not sell it. So like, yeah, I mean, I'm not a good
trader at all, but I do catch it. Yeah, you do need to start selling a little bit more because
I feel like every day, like you, you are up so much on these coins, and then you just don't
fucking sell.
And I mean, I'm there, dude.
Trust me.
I've not only been there, but I'm currently there. And it's just like you want to fucking believe.
Like it's so easy for people to be like, dude, you're up however much.
Just like sell.
I don't know.
Like when you have these massive wins that completely remove what a theoretical ceiling
on the success of a coin can
be you just start to believe that everything can go there and then um it's also difficult because
then you over correct and like this is what happened to me and why i missed why basically
like paper handed gas down and like a bunch of other stuff is because you're punished so much
for believing that you yeah you just like over correct and start selling for like a 1.5x or 2x
and then all of a sudden you know just like a
crazy river happens
you're speaking by language man I had
here's the worst part I think when Ralph came out
I had 2% of Ralph
never held it and like
I think I rotate too much and it's
hard to build conviction on things because then like
you sometimes get super narratives like this where
you can but then yeah gas rug I held gas all the way down you know like literally I had
a friend buy it I called some funds to tell them like my friend that works at a public uh Jen Jen
you know her told her about it told a bunch of my friends and then um I thought it might bounce
at 10 mil and I held it all the way down to where it is now.
That was a very hard one. At one point, if I sold, I'd been up 800K.
Holy shit.
Wait, on which coin?
Which coin?
On gas.
Oh, on gas.
Yeah, dude.
What was your entry on it?
My entry was very low.
I was in Pastel Alpha, and I was with Tan Dineko.
He has his own journal
inside of a pastel alpha
and we all
were talking about how big this was I didn't know who the fuck
Steve was I'll be quite honest and then
he kind of got us to like all buy it
in there so shout out to pastel and shout out
to Tan which our entries
were like 200k 300k it was something similar
to this NPM one that was running where like
my entries on NPM like 500 or 600 in that range and it's just like oh like we're just talking about in there
and i think the one that showed me on this one uh on npm his name is uh i just gotta give shout
outs to the people bread maker really good dude it's like a chinese trader and he's a developer
and he's a developer.
it's literally tanking
It's literally tanking.
Wait, what's that?
What's that right now?
It went from, like, what?
Two mil to ten mil.
Good shit weed off that twin.
In, like, minutes, and now it's back.
I don't know.
You never know what's going to happen with this.
I see a message, and I'm like, oh, my God.
It is just, like, straight red candles.
It's down to two.
Oh, Spider, did you learn your lesson from gas and
take some profit here or sun zoo said yeah yeah i did i sold um i sold a whole percentage around
like six to seven mil so yes i made i made good on this one you know it's it's it's hard because
like you're like this is what happened too with gastown right like you're up one moment and then
you're just like that's why i just said dA. I just said DCA. I sold out.
I have my P&L.
I'll post my P&L in a bit.
Dude, this is – all right.
Everyone wants to post their P&L constantly.
So I'm not going to keep your P&L to yourself.
Also, this is – the same thing happened yesterday with ZReal, which is it went from nothing to 30 mil and then just in the span of like five minutes instantly down you know 80 90 percent
there is a new group and by the way half of these wallets on npm are all like freshies funded from
binance so there is like a people are getting easy you said i like this coin i don't it's not
even sees it's like that's the people think i don't think cc's criming anything at least not
right now and especially not this but, it's down to one mil.
It is literally, go look at the chart.
They think like straight green candles to 10 mil, and in the span of two minutes, from
10 mil down to one, and continue to drop.
Yeah, and there's no news on it, right?
It just dropped off?
I mean, it's a fucking scam.
Like, these things are all, I don't know.
I don't know who the person is.
Like, maybe there's like a good cause. Someone did tell me it was like some sort of charity all i don't know i don't know who the person is like maybe
there's like a good cause but someone did tell me it was like some sort of charity i don't really
know but i know so it's this guy who um i guess he developed like npm for like javascript it's like
used in javascript i don't know but apparently it's like the backbone for a lot of people that
code and so apparently he sold to microsoft but
he made a tweet in august um basically saying he's like open to work so they like launched a
coin and he gets 100 of the fees so that's what i understand honestly i might not know shit i didn't
buy it i don't even know anyone that was in it i just thought it was running so i believe i might
not know shit how much has this made off fees so far?
I mean, it's 7 mil in volume and what they make 1%.
So 71K or something.
I don't know.
Look, I think some coins, you know,
and this goes to the conversation of like whether crime is like the end
all be all of narratives.
And I posted this like a week or two ago.
And basically, like I said, trading in the big two six,
it's just like hoping you're in the crime bundle.
And it feels like most of the things
that I've made money on have all been
because I just like snuck into the crime bundle.
Like I just like took a bet on something crazy
and it happened to work.
That's not like a sustainable way of trading.
And I think that completely changes trader mentality
for how they look for projects and what they consider
to be good or not. And I think the
longer that...
Oh, it's at 700k.
Yeah, I mean, it's a crash point.
Like, there have been more...
Damn, what the hell happened? There have been more
and more of these as time has gone on.
And it's just like more sophisticated actors.
I don't know if this was like a organized thing.
Sometimes things do just like crazily go organic.
And then everyone just like sells at the same time.
That can happen.
But yeah, this chart's a bit diabolical.
Honestly, this is, I think something must have happened.
Yeah, what happened is somebody made fucking six, seven figures on this.
That's what happened.
All right.
Well, look.
Let's reset the space, guys.
We haven't even done this once tonight.
Welcome, everybody.
Appreciate everybody popping.
Yo, my bad.
Frank, do you know what happened?
What caused this?
Yo, my bad, man.
My bad, guys.
What do you mean, my bad?
Did you sell?
No, because he sold.
Frank sold. Yeah. I decided to sell. You know, the aura was a little too. It happens sometimes. My bad man, my bad guys. What do you mean my bad? Did you sell?
Yeah, I decided to sell you know the aura was a little too it happens sometimes
Wait, so what is the story here? Like it because I was watching it on stage and it's also in
In the chat we're just like so mad we're making fun of this dev like the whole time and it's just moaning Um, and and we were joking. We're like yo lee by the I was tagging I was like lead by this please top it. Please top it like at two or three mil
It's like oh razzler, please I started spamming razzler razzler. Please just buy a dollar, please
Nobody bought it. So then I was like fuck it guys. I'll buy it. I bought it and it kept going up
And uh, we found out it was the Chinese.
But yeah, I mean, that was hilarious.
What do you mean you found out it was the Chinese?
What does that even mean?
So there's like Chinese Twitter.
And one of the guys in the chat, there's like a guy named Alex.
It's like this big Chinese account that was basically just hard-shilling it.
And then when it took, it took Another tweet where someone's
In Chinese there's another tweet where someone said we're not supporting bags anymore and just cascaded down, bro
I can't make this up. I swear. Yeah, we put you know, I just want to get on to Chinese Twitter
That was a movie
Because we were just like shitting on this goal
I was just sitting on this coin the whole time I was like, you know, cuz it's just like shitting on this coin I was just shitting on this coin the whole time
I was like, you know, because it's literally like these
Trechers that just begged this guy to
Claim it and just watching
It moon
Sorry, it was so funny
Fuck, I hate trading, dude
I hate coins, you guys gotta get an AI, man
Fuck this shit, dude
This is the worst
By the way, I kind of blame you for this entire thing
Because you dropped just cancel
These are time I vibe coding and less than a week later. It's the biggest dude
I've actively decided not to tweet at all like during this entire meta. I'm like I tweeted like a tutorial on cloud code today
I'm trading but I want no part of it at all when I saw them pumping gas
I mean leave you can attest to this i have like so many
receipts on this when when they started pumping gas town i was just like shitting on everybody
i was like dude this this thing is turbo slop i'm not fucking posting i even like posted like
this is all slop i'm not gonna be i learned my lesson the first time um i can't believe we went
to 40 mil to be honest i can't like i yeah dude it's half 60. believe just vouch for the audience was i
not hard shitting on on the gas town guy the entire pump i said this is gonna be so bad you said
i mean to be fair i think i i wasn't in it but i i took a little bit of a counter stance like i did
feel like it it was like more memetic and encompassed like the entire movement but it turns
out it was slop town like it just i don't know what it by the way i'm just gonna say this oh no but you're not you're articulating
this to the audience clear enough i was writing essays in our group chat oh man it was all brains
fucking fault again shit okay well okay why don't you say like why do you think it was bad let's
say compared to ralph or compared to like whatever Because it only ran because people posted about it
So like Ralph for example makes I still have some wrong way
It makes sense to me because it's like all right all these devs in AI world are tweeting about it
but Gastown is like I did not understand how I
Didn't understand how it got so big and there's just nobody outside of crypto tweeting about Gastown like zero people
I agree with this.
Ralph is like, I see, if you go to Cloud AI, just like Twitter,
every puns post them at Ralph, they're making YouTube videos about Ralph.
Ralph is like literally a meme.
And it was just like how big it is in the AI world right now.
Yeah, but my issue overall with this meta is, oh man,
I told myself I wasn't going to like fucking say,
I just don't want to be involved in any of this.
But my issue with it is just the fees.
It just reminds me so much of CCM.
Like the charts feel the same.
The vibe feels the same.
Where with these high fee coins, like my example is people always talk about the next GOAT.
And I think whenever people talk about GOAT, a lot of stuff gets rewritten about history.
But you actually think about the token incentive or something like GOAT.
It was wild. It was like 50% gets sent to truth terminal you're
following the tweets people are making derivatives like there were no fees it was a very different
token incentive model and i think across the board it's kind of just a lazy approach that
okay like dev makes fees it makes a lot it makes a lot of sense for the first day it makes a lot of like it makes some sense on the second day third fourth fifth day you're
basically the old coins are competing with the new coins the new coins are more exciting to trade
so the old coins get less fees and then you know it's like it's the same charts of CCM. So Gastown to me is just like the bag work of
this like AI, I don't even want to call it season, like wave, whatever it is. It's like,
remember bag work, like goes 40 mil, it's insane. We're here, CCM. And then the fees just kind of
just drag this stuff down over time. And then there's not enough new deploys, you know, a week
or two in. And then it's just cookie season.
It's just cook.
Like, so, yeah, I want to know part of it.
I'm making my tutorials.
Guys, get on Clyde Code.
Like, but I'm going to trade it.
Like, yeah, fucking on FOMO.
Like, I'm just flipping shit.
Like, I'm not, you know.
Yeah, but it's negative EV to trade.
I agree.
I mean.
Yeah, I mean, like, if you're trading, it's fine.
I'm having fun. Like, I didn, if you're trading, it's fine. I'm having fun.
I didn't trade all of December
for the most part.
It's fun,
because for me,
I'm like a turbo autistic.
I'm just like a nerd.
And so the tech type meta stuff,
I like it more than the meme stuff
because I don't know,
my brain's just not as good with memes.
I just,
it's just hard for me to value.
Where, okay okay if you like
figure out somebody's got a you know decent github or tech tech or whatever
it's like okay cool I it makes sense to me and then there's always outliers by
the way like there are outliers there can be outliers I'm not saying that's not
the case and if you're in an outlier it's like the difference between having a
good run with trading and a bad one but yeah i'm just
not like a believer until the incentives make sense to me um but what are the incentives just
don't right now but like what like we've talked about it like is it them holding supply like what
is the incentive that you think leave leave leave do you hear what i'm saying like do you know what
i get out with like okay so day one fees are the highest for these developers. Day two, the fees are a little bit lower.
By day three or four, the market is kind of like priced in
what the value of the, like what,
relatively what the value of the asset is.
And that would be fine.
In a world there's no new coins, but then there's new coins.
And so now like there's a fixed amount of capital
that's trading these coins.
And then by day three or four, it's very hard for one of these newer projects that's on day four, day five, day six to compete with the attention of a new coin that has not been priced in yet.
But then after two or three weeks, you basically have no net new deployers coming in.
And so it's just like, yeah, again, I think Finn can innovate on
the, like he can do something on the fees and fix it. But this is where I'm focused on at this point.
If the fees don't really change, it's really hard for me to get excited to hold this stuff.
So people get mad, like I'm on FOMO, like I'm just flipping stuff, but it's like,
dude, we've seen this three times now. You know, we saw it with Believe, we saw it with CCM, and we're going to see it with this again.
But the fees, yeah, I'm repeating myself here.
Well, yeah, the RR is a trader blasting Gastown at 40 mil, let alone with a 2% buy and sell tax
versus just waiting for the next whatever to buy it at 100K.
It's like, why the fuck would I go buy Gastown at 40 mil?'s just it makes zero sense dude big dude is so tough when he talks man i
know but i'm just saying like size i tried to size one bags point and i immediately like physically
clinched i was like what the fuck did i just get myself into it was like i gotta get out of this
now like i should have just been waiting for the shit to whatever migrates and just blast slop without even thinking i'd probably win more you know what i mean um you
know i agree with what frank said yeah but but i will say like jack i don't know how you feel
because you also do the meme stuff too i really was inactive december um i do like the tech stuff
like i do think there's something there like when, when people get excited about it, I don't blame them.
Like, it's way more interesting to me than memes than, like, Poop Piss coin.
But, yeah, it just hasn't clicked yet.
And that's, I think, the most frustrating part.
Wait, Frank, what about the relationship between the token and the project?
Like, these are basically, like, tokenized, you know, narratives, right?
It's like a meme coin attached to, like, the tech.
But, like, do you see that there's actually… I think that's one layer. It's kind of like,
it's how people talk about, it's how people like to talk about it, but it's just,
it's one layer above, like the real primitive is this feed stuff. I mentioned again, like this
true terminal thing, because I actually had this thought a couple of days ago and I can't get it
out of my head. We totally forget people when they talk
about goat they talk about twitter slot bot but people totally forget like the token incentives
were so it was like it was different like it was weird 50 all these new coins are sending their
coins to the truth terminal wallet the wallet's getting like you know it's getting it's growing
in that dollar value whatever it is and now it kind of, maybe that's like played out.
But to discount how different the incentives were in that first wave of AI to the fee model and builder model that we have now, I think is, it's like, nobody talks about it, but
I think that's actually the core.
Wait, the incentives were different because it held the token or like what?
No, I'm saying the fees don't like uh the fees are
what i described with the the one the first day second day third day fourth day fifth day
this exists in a world where there's like an infinite supply of coins and so i'm i don't
think that you can go back to the old way because the old way is already sold so if a new ai twitter
bot came out today and did like 50 in the the wallet, you know, all these new coins are sending to it, it wouldn't work.
We've already seen it.
So I don't know what the solution is.
If I did, I would do something about it.
I don't know.
Honestly, I don't.
But I do know like the model right now has a clear solved game.
It's just, if you look back at every single one of these metas again People are mad at like how I'm trading on my wallet
If you look back at all these metas that with the with fees being the primary driver with builders
Um, it just it just ends the same way
Like it's very hard for a builder to compete with the sexy new launch
You know when they're like five or six days old and the new launches are one or two days old and all the traders that
That are buying this stuff are basically like,
it's the same group of people, so they're rotating their money out.
And so, yeah, like, I don't know.
I don't know how much more to say than that.
I definitely think fees should be tiered in some way.
They should adjust as the market cap, you know, rises
or some sort of time decay thing.
I don't know, but I also think it's all this.
Well, I think the devs need the coins.
I think, okay, so if you're asking about solutions,
it's like the devs need the coins I think okay so if you're asking about solutions It's like the devs need the coins whether it's vested or not. I don't know what the solution is Maybe it is that but if they don't have the coins and they don't want to pump it like they're on the same team as us
Like this is the thing. Yeah, I got a solution. I've been thinking about it
Oh, I really wish that some coins just came out with like a certain lock supply and it has to like hit like a certain
Like market cap in order for them to like, you know get that supply out of it
Right and it's paid like on a vested schedule too. It's not like all at once unlock right?
It's like paid on investing so once it hits like certain price targets, maybe the platforms paying them
I don't know. I'm just trying to get
Well, um, I don't know if you guys have seen but
Oh drop that. Yeah, let's get it
I'm lost guys i'm really
like i'm kind of tapped out so yeah i take spider's word for it let's go and and the big doof
whatever he thinks well no i just think there's like a fine line right so it's like we were talking
about this earlier about the hacks where it's like they're not like these debt it's some rando
making a coin for you so you don't have initial skin in the game you're attracted by the money
and then that draws you in you're kind of like oh you need to shirk responsibility because you didn't deploy it and
you don't hold supply it's just not like free money and then it's like do i follow by the way
steve yegi man holy fuck dude what a fucking guy huh that was crazy bro i don't want to talk about
it no i was up 800k dude that's great no but that that's like a crazy essay to drop i can't
i don't know that was insane i remember seeing i was like oh this has got to be like a dip by
just for a scalp and i read the essay i'm like holy fuck this is the most brutally bearish thing
i've ever read in my like didn't even it couldn't even be like a fuck you let's buy the dip to go
oh you know how it started i don't know how many people in the audience actually read the whole
thing because there's screenshots of it on twitter i read the whole thing it starts with you know how it started? I don't know how many people in the audience actually read the whole thing because there's screenshots of it on Twitter.
I read the whole thing.
It starts with, you know, at my old age, I'm the fittest I've ever been.
I'm the happiest I've ever been.
And by the way, it's my birthday.
I think that's how he started.
And then he starts talking about a coin.
He's like, okay, now I apologize to the bag slash CT community,
but here's my disclaimer.
And it's like this legally written like disclaimer and in my mind
I'm thinking like wow like this is the same guy that four days ago
tweeted or put it put in his blog
I want to make all the holders like filthy rich is like now giving financial disclaimers
it's kind of just uh
Some of these I think some of these devs are really good people and they want to make their coin work and as a trader it's tough because you know sometimes it's just really hard
to make the coin work um but some of these devs are just like they should be they should be called
out even more to be like that was that was insane dude i can't believe ct enabled this guy bro that
was crazy their movement and some made the post and i went to him on it no i love answering but I love it so but I was we do clown the I do be kind in the fucking just tweet
I just keep coding brother like no no but here's the thing is and some and some bot near the fucking top
right it's all these and fucking telegram chats I think they're better than you right all these
I'm not gonna say names but they really think they're him because they caught Gastown early
and convinced their buddies eat to fucking buy the top.
Like, you can't really blame Ansem because Ansem isn't even the one that made the fucking bread.
I guess, bro.
I guess.
I don't know.
You know, Raz, I like Ansem, but it's just like, he should have posted about Ralph.
At least it would have made sense.
Like, Gastown, I just was such a big hater of Gastown, to be honest.
Like, I just was like, I read it?
No, but it's funny.
I tried, like, even loading it on my shit.
It's just like, it doesn't even make sense to use.
And so I just did not understand.
I saw my favorite tweet.
This was funny.
I did meme this a lot, too.
My favorite post, I won't say the guy who did it, but he goes on ChatGPT,
and he goes like, is steve yegi probably top 10
legendary dev of all time question mark or top five question mark or top three question mark
and then chat gbt replies like top 10 but it's like it's the most leading question of all time
and then he posts that like two or three mil market cap and then and then like people by the
time he gets a five or six mil people like oh wow like steve's top 10 dev all the time meanwhile he's just like some he's like a former amazon like
you know developer or whatever i was just the ct gets so crazy with this like uh with his tech
stuff and i do think for the most part it's like it's just kol driven like if if um people aren't
if the ct guys are not posting about it a lot of stuff just
Doesn't move at all so it's very similar to memes in that way
But I think why people hate on the tech stuff more and why I was so
Like I just did not want to I still don't want to be a part of it
Um, I would side of trading it is that I think with tech people get pissed because people make it sound like it is
bigger than it is um and and I get both sides like you can get excited about tech I'm a nerd like I get excited
about tech but I don't know Gastown was just like crazy to me like that was crazy like and some of
the other stuff the github stars it's like you could buy that shit for like 500 rupees um uh
yeah it's it's funny that the genon comparison you texted me frank and then
and then ansem made that comparison as well and then and then you look at the ko when did i text
you that i said that when like when it was a 30 million a while ago and then you look at the ko
wells that convinced ansem to buy genon and the ko wells that convinced ansem to buy gas town and
it's the same fucking people and then it's just oh oh i see what happened here okay yeah yeah if i if i just have one non-bearish thing is um i'm so deeply bullish on the
like i think the world has not figured out yet how crazy the last month of of actual ai tech
uh like the leap the the ai tech itself is made in the last month or two um and so in that way i'm
like excited like anytime i see something with ai and crypto because maybe this is the good the
something good that's going to come of it because i think the actual tech has gotten so much better
like last last time with the ai wave it was literally gbt4o which if you compare gbt4o it's
like opus 4.5 it's really like a retarded monkey like
it's just fucking it's a nubile child you know like a mirror yeah and so in that way i'm like
excited um but beyond that i'm just not in a rush i keep telling my friends when the when people
were like oh ai wave i started getting texts and stuff and i said like the way i'm playing it is
i'm just mad patient because it's gonna be an all-year story like most of the world hasn't even figured out that these models
are this good yet I saw this really viral clip of Ben Affleck I think most of you guys have seen it
it's got like 30 million views it's a clip of Ben Affleck on Joe Rogan talking about AI and it's so
funny because the normies are it's like it's a very heated debate where he's basically saying that AI is good, but it's not that good.
People are overblowing it.
The tech industry has to like make it sound better than it is.
And the funniest part about the take is like, he was so right.
He was like, everything he said was absolutely right in 2024.
And like, until December of 2025, until Opus 4.5 came out a month ago, everything he said was absolutely spot on.
But that's just how the AI world goes.
Like, it was completely stagnating.
Like, the entire AI, like, LLMs were stagnating.
Basically, up until, like, late November 2025.
Opus 4.5 comes out.
They just do it right.
Like, they just figure this shit out.
And now, you kind of
sound retarded if you're fighting actual ai like we we don't even know the limits of this now it's
gotten that much better can i ask you a question about this since like i'm doing this shit too
playing with this stuff and by the way i saw you doing the video uh trying to build the video
algorithm it's a lot harder than you think i watched you do it it's a lot harder than you think. I watched you do it. It's a lot harder than you think. Yeah, it's tricky. So I've had this thought. It's like this kind of
Ouroboros. If you want people to get into AI now, they need to understand some basic
frameworks of coding. They don't have to know how to code, but they have to know why does Superbase
exist? What is Vercel? These core basic things. But couldn't you a year from now,
that will be automated a year from now, the NLP, like natural language processing is going to get
better. What's the difference between a Frank today who knows half of the NLP with some basic
coding understanding and a really intelligent philosopher and someone who's
like knows how to think structurally a year from now like what why why get in now versus wait a
year if you're a normie um good question i don't really have an answer i think every time i think
about the future with this stuff um it kind of trips me up and i don't yeah i honestly don't know all i
know is every day so i the first time i tried opus 4.5 in a terminal was december 5th i think i
believe it's december 5th and and since then i've woken up every single day trying to find something
that opus 4.5 can't do and and dog is like day 40 like i still can't do it like i go to
sleep every night still working on something i wake up i i just i i haven't found something you
really can't do yet i don't know what to say like credits do you have frank holden yeah how much
credit he spent man um i'm not that crazy with it like i think i'm pretty efficient i'm not i saw
there's a post like shaw is 40 grand. That's fucking insane. Yeah
That's not something I know my issue was that I had cursor and I cursor quad and
Open AI all going at once and then that's why I made just can't I brought I made just cancel because I just had way too Any subscription now? I like I was much smarter with it, but um
No, I'm not I'm mostly getting to the max
like for the max plan like claude max every week if i'm not like last week i didn't get all the
way it's because i was kind of doing other stuff i was kind of trading on other stuff but yeah i'm
like i'm not going that crazy i don't think you need to go that crazy on the credits uh because
at a certain point if you guys would use this stuff you know you pause and you like think about it for a second right you're not like just spamming it every single
second no if you're not if you don't hit your max weekly usage on on claude max with the 20x you're
you're you're not gonna make it i'm sorry you're not waiting if you're your window and wait it's
i will say it's not a bad metric like like when people
are trying to start out i keep telling them like you're probably just not sending enough messages
you probably like don't have it in a terminal it's really good to have it in a terminal or
in a cursor environment for two reasons one it's the latency like it's just fast it's uh it's just
faster and and you get a better dopamine loop. So you can think through stuff faster. You can edit and iterate it faster.
And two, it can read, write, and create directories.
Like it can read files, it can create files,
and it can look through files.
It can't do this on the web app or on your mobile app.
And when an LLM can read and write files,
it just allows like the breadth of what it's
able to do what it's able to think through it's able to research save that research um it's it's
just way better like yeah yeah i'll answer your question i'll answer your question john um the
reason that you would get into it now versus waiting as a normie is like presumed like assuming your iq is above 115 maybe 120
if you're decently intelligent um you need to be learning how these things work because
you can build actual solutions to problems that you have like everybody wants to do production immediately they
think how do i use ai to build a sass that makes me a million dollars in arr and retires my bloodline
forever and i think that's actually the worst possible use case for ai uh especially things
like cloud code uh shout out frank You saved me five bucks in subscriptions
and I paid you five bucks, so
break even overall.
Kind of a waste of time, but you know.
That might be the lowest number.
Yeah, I'm kidding. I didn't sign up
for that shit. I just asked Claude and he told me.
But anyway. Yeah, if you're using Claude Code, you're good.
That's why I made open source.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So not to
fucking dig on you
but uh that this kind of the point is that like it's really hard to make a production ready like
profitable sass uh with cloud code because you're existing it exists in this container and like this
like containerized substance of what it is which is basically uh what everybody
else is doing and like until you have like like you need to think of your own personal
issues or problems or like things that don't have solutions yet or if the solution exists but it's
too expensive a lot of times it's really easy to just make like a cloud code version.
And if you don't worry about production,
you can literally like,
you don't even need a domain.
You can just host it locally.
Like I've been using a trading bot that I made that is just totally local.
Like there's no production for it or anything.
And it's better than everything.
And I don't want to like,
you know, I don't feel like I i want to that's cap um no i need to believe it i need to see it no there's
a good term for this beaver i've been using it um a lot it's called clotted to weed and i feel
i'm definitely clotted to it so it's it's clod plus ratatouille like claude's controlling my life um i quit like i've had struggle quitting
weed for many many years and uh with claude i basically yeah i basically quit weed 10 days ago
and and going i've been going to the gym every single day i'm hitting my macros every day um
yeah like the biggest thing i use it for is pretty much what you just described yeah i can tell you
i can tell you um it's uh but
what i was gonna say is i just call it personal automation so people people are like oh what do
you build with claude like yeah i made this website just canceled whatever but no most of
what i use it for is personal personal automation um so i have like a telegram bot that is like
kind of my life it kind of drives my life so it's an agent. And the goal of the agent is to log every hour of my day.
And I have my goals.
This took a lot of setup, but I have a lot of my goals for this year.
And kind of mapped it back to the day-to-day, hour-to-hour.
So when I wake up, I have to send a picture to Claude that I'm standing up.
Because sometimes I just stay in bed and doom scroll.
So I have to send a picture to Claude that I'm standing up.
And it runs it through Gemini.
And it knows if I'm standing up or not. And so, okay, that's one.
Every time I have a meal, I take a picture of it and then it counts the calories. And then if I'm
low on calories midway through the day, it's proactively kind of messaging me like, oh, it's
2 p.m. and you haven't gotten to like this many calories. You have a protein shake. You drink a protein shake or whatever,
like from a set of stuff that I have or like to eat.
Invisalign too.
So I'm like, I have Invisalign now.
And after I eat, I tend to forget to brush my teeth
and put my Invisalign back in.
So when I eat, it reminds me, you know,
right after I log my meal,
oh, make sure you put your invisalign back
in if i don't what happens what happens what's like all right so i'm gonna make one joke because
i think what you're doing is cool but like it seems like you just need a girlfriend not ai
but the second i think you need the ai no i me and my girlfriend actually broke up like oh sorry
to hear that all right you said he wanted like a part of that Oh, sorry to hear that. He said he wanted to lock in. It's so fucked. He didn't get depressed and want to kill himself.
I had no idea on his
I don't know his fucking
personal life.
God damn.
All right.
So my second thing is
Oh, it's fine.
It's fine.
My second thing.
Yeah, it's good.
My second thing is
if you let your A
like, aren't you going to
end up getting like Alzheimer's?
Like your
the ability to memorize shit.
Isn't that going to go to
fucking hell
because you're using the AI to remember everything?
Frank's entire brain is fucked.
Well, I'm 26.
I'm 26 and I've had like struggle
building these habits for like my whole life.
And so again, like,
so I can tell you the weed thing too.
It's a good example.
Like I was really trying to figure this out.
It's just a hard thing to do,
especially if you've had like people that are stoners.
If you have like success while smoking weed, it's really hard like to rationalize in your brain.
It's kind of like it's a gay habit.
But you have these triggers basically.
So after talking to Claude about it for a while, they have these triggers.
And so now whenever I have these triggers, I just like talk to Claude.
And it kind of maps back like this big document like that I wrote in parallel with Claude
of all these reasons that I want to quit.
But Claude just says it back to me.
Like, it's very smart.
And so when I try to convince it,
like, no, dude, I'm going to smoke right now, whatever.
It's just like, I'll go back and forth with Claude.
And in my mind, when I start talking to him,
I'm like, I'm about to smoke.
Like, fuck this fucking robot, whatever it is.
But dude, I'm on day 10.
And it's like, it fucking works.
It low-key just fucking works.
Like, because it gives me good reasons.
I read them
i'm like fuck i really like makes a good point like yeah i'm probably gonna regret it in 20 minutes
oh yeah like you know tomorrow morning's gonna suck whatever and uh yeah so day 10 we'll see
we'll see you're absolutely right like a log like he's like a like basically like a journal
workout journal and you're just putting it in terminals. Yeah, my workout logs are in there, too.
It's not a bad, like, what you're doing is good.
For gym bros, it's pretty good.
It's like, I'm not even, I'm just trying to be, like, the antithetical,
just because it's an interesting conversation.
What you're doing is good.
I think the benefit is when NLP is fully realized,
like, you can just talk something out,
and the AI will intuitively know what you want.
I think you're just going to have a better understanding.
Like, you're going to have this.
But why would you wait to improve your life?
You know what I'm saying?
This is what you underestimate.
To me, this tech didn't exist.
Before Opus 4.5, I felt like every time I was talking to an AI,
I was basically talking to a retard,
like a dumb person or something that was dumber than me.
When I talk to Opus 4.5,
I really believe I'm talking to something smarter than me. Opus 4.5 is by dumber than me. I agree with you. When I talk to Opus 4.5, I really believe I'm talking to something smarter than me.
Like Opus 4.5 is by far smarter than me.
Like, and so it's the first time I've ever talked to an AI
that's actually just like, oh fuck,
like I'm getting value out of this.
I'm learning stuff out of this
and it's a productive conversation.
And that happened 40 days ago
and brother, like it's day 41.
I still fucking am not running out of shit to talk to you frank would
you say you have an inner monologue because it sounds like a lot of the things that you're using
cloud or claude for are things that like people that have an inner monologue just intuitively do
like stand up like it sounds like you enslaved yourself to a chat bot you have to send it that's
why i said the term that yeah the term is like claude
atui because it is it is low-key controlling my life um and it is super autistic like it's kind
of it's kind of weird but it happens so naturally and so fast and the fuck thing is like i am like
bigger like claude make me a mother i am getting bigger like i'm getting bigger i do feel like my
life's like getting on track it's funny because i'm talking to Claude less when I'm trading.
This is why I hate trading.
I'll rape these fucking coins.
I hate trading right now.
You're going to make way more money doing YouTube Claude stuff.
Yeah.
Frank, you should make it so that if you don't get out of bed on time,
you pay Claude.
Claude takes $100 every minute.
You don't get out of bed.
Holy shit.
I'll be up real quick.
I did see, um...
Yo, Frank, Frank, just a heads up.
You should talk to Butoshi about some of the stuff he's programs.
No, I don't need to talk to anyone.
Nobody needs to talk to anyone.
Would you ask me for advice?
I only talked to AI, bro.
No, but I'm telling you, like...
Talk to my AI.
No, but even for me, if...
When I...
Like, I have a couple friends that I've gotten on this
that, you know, now they just use it all day all day it's like after your first day of setting up like you really don't need anybody else
after that like I don't need to talk to anybody about vibe coding I don't need to watch tutorials
because bro I'll just ask Claude like what like what advice am I gonna get from somebody that's
gonna be better than Claude like it already has all my stuff that's already in my flow like and
it's faster like I gotta text Butoshi wait for him to reply like he's gonna fucking say
something and then you know Claude's gonna respond in two seconds I think the reality is with this
stuff is like everybody's just you know finds their own use case for it I used to be pretty
resistant to um I mean Frank and I have had these conversations about since like the original chat
GPT went public on spaces and I'm sitting here telling him it's never going to, this is a fad, it's not a thing.
And here I am, you know, a few years later where, I mean, I hate to be dependent on anything.
That's why I quit nicotine, quit weed, I don't drink, I don't do all this stuff,
because I just don't want any dependencies.
But it's come to the point now where if I'm like responding to, um, any sort of like proposition,
like business proposition,
like something that's like difficult for me to,
I don't really know what the best way to approach it is.
I will literally just screenshot it,
put it into chat GPT or Claude or whatever.
I usually both and come up with five or six different responses that I think
makes sense.
And then,
and then,
and then pick the one that I think is,
I mean,
I can't even be mad about what Frank's doing.
There's way worse things to be addicted to.
If all you're addicted to is bettering yourself using a machine God,
like,
you know,
whatever,
that's good.
I think it's good.
Frank,
do you have a,
sorry to interrupt.
Do you have an,
an internal monologue,
Frank?
Just out of curiosity.
this is,
it's just quiet.
No, you're fucking with me.
You're fucking with me.
Are you being dead ass?
No, I swear.
I swear.
I actually saw some TikToks about this.
Some people, when they're thinking, I guess,
they hear their own voice.
Yeah, you don't do that?
You don't have that?
Which is so weird to me.
No, yeah, I don't.
Unironically, then, this AI is perfect for you.
I called it, by the way.
I fucking called it.
That explains...
Honestly, you need that AI, bro.
What happens if Claude believes in one of these Gastown type coins?
Is it going to like 10 bill or what?
Like if Claude starts telling people that it's a good buy?
Just full port.
I actually...
I don't...
Someone told me recently.
I can't...
I'm not even going to answer that, Raz.
Hey, Raz, we're sending you to Gastown, buddy.
Bro, someone make the Raz.own buddy what the fuck dude it'll
just it'll be just like
what was that coin zero bro
it'll be just like that again it'll go so
high it'll be so far
I'm gonna go work at Gastown right now
I mean like
I mean there's just like a few repeat individuals
you bring up on the stage and every
semblance of a seems to be in every space.
These same individuals.
Let's get this back on track here for a second.
Guys, click the button in the bottom right hand corner.
Give it a like comment.
Retweet.
Let's talk about crypto.
And it was sending this person to gas.
Now that person.
Does anybody have a take here?
Let's get this back on track.
For God's sakes, we're talking about Frank's inner monologue.
You guys are trying to give him like a therapy session here like let the man live but lee do you blame
me like i find this stuff so interesting it's like crypto is lit but i i do think like you know
it's pretty what happened like all right so i'm dead i'm the dead ass question all right
it goes full on her,
right?
You end up,
you end up falling in love with this fucking thing that your AI decides it
wants to be a guy.
What happens?
Like,
are you gay?
Yeah.
Well,
it's so funny.
Cause it's just not even a thought that crossed my mind.
Like,
so the way I see it is right now,
there's these things I want to better with myself.
And then I want to layer in like okay
I want I want to hang out with friends more
It's I'm such a fucking my brain is so weird
Like I just need to add it to my calendar like I just need to organize my life better
So I can be more social and more and be proactive to be more social
So it's like I don't want to fuck I don't want to fuck Claude
Um, I want to like find a wife, but it's like I just know I'm 26 about
it's or 27 like pretty soon I just know my life's such a mess crypto messes your fucking I don't
maybe maybe not everybody but my sleep's been a mess like my priorities my brain's constantly
scrambled and so right in a way it's like people are talking about people are talking about me
having psychosis but it's like before i started training again this week which
has really fucked some some of my sleep schedule all this stuff up i felt the most normal i'd felt
in years over the last month of just talking to claude no joke like so i'm not like too worried
about the psychosis dude i'm just teasing i'm happy for you and honestly since you don't have
an inner monologue i actually it's like someone who has add and they take adderall it's just gonna make you normal like i don't think it's gonna fuck with you that's a bar yeah i don't have an inner monologue, I actually it's like someone who has ADD and they take Adderall It's just gonna make you normal. Like I don't think it's gonna fuck with you
That's a bar. Yeah, I would be that with this
Maybe that you know this whole inner monologue thing too. Like I don't I also pretty sure I don't know fuck you
You have no you definitely have an inner
I really I honestly which a joint you hear not all fucking day. It's annoying. That's so crazy
Not all fucking day. It's annoying. That's so crazy. That sounds unbelievable
I didn't have a visual. What happened when you meditate?
What happens when I meditate? No, I see black. I can't even visualize things like I just see black if I close my eyes
It's black if I'm not
It's actually interesting. So like we both you went to film school. How how did you like be creative?
You should imagine that's why I quit, bro.
I was like, I got a cinch in my head.
No, that was a banger.
So, like,
so, can you, like,
can you picture yourself?
Why did you view me?
This is, like, an interesting conversation.
I didn't.
This is not about AI anymore.
No, I'm not.
My hand is literally not on my phone.
That's the crazy.
I had my face in my fucking pocket.
I swear it was burden.
Yeah, see, there you go.
Everyone's talking about inner monologue.
Okay, I thought I was going to come up with something to kind of riff off that.
But look.
Closing your eyes. you can't see stuff we all just have like serious mental issues that's what i'm realizing from this conversation we're all just and by the way it feels like it's become
a stigma to talk to to ai or it's almost like like you can even hear it in this conversation
it's like oh like psychosis this that and the third or whatever to me it's like
it's the opposite i agree to ride a horse instead of fucking get a car like you have this thing that
just like is a superpower that it you know your phone can run it um and it can just give you like
a beautiful and the thing is people always talk about know, they don't want it to have all their data and whatever.
Dude, I want it to have all my data.
And I want it to know everything about me.
And I've built up like these like memory, like I've been using the same accounts on
this stuff for years at this point, where it knows every aspect of like all the decisions
I've made and how I've thought about them.
And it can give me like much better advice moving forward.
And it's not perfect. But, but I don't know.
It's just like who else?
I also don't have that many people to consult about stuff.
I'm just sitting in my room all day working.
Can I ask one more question about the visualization?
I'm dead ass.
I just never...
Please.
I mean, with the visualization...
Burden, what do you think?
What's going on here
okay
I think there's too many people on earth now
and not everyone gets a soul
I think
alright that is
that might be the best take of this
that's fucking insane bro
look
listen there's this idea that thought exists and therefore God exists because thought is separate from material.
You can't, it doesn't exist in a medium that is known and able to be quantified.
It's like you can describe the wavelength of the color red, but you cannot describe what red looks like, that sort of thing.
And because thoughts exist and we can measure them,
but we cannot measure their essence, that means they must exist in a separate
substance or thing that thinks.
And if you don't have these thoughts, then you're not connected to the
substance that thinks.
And so Bobby's actually kind of philosophically grounded.
So Augustine, he thought of that in like 400 BC.
I just want to ask a really simple question.
I do think Frank has a soul.
My actual non-making fun of you question is, do you dream?
Like if you can't imagine things.
Well, 10 days off weed, I'm getting a couple of dreams.
Okay, all right.
So you got something.
That's good.
If you were going to ask me if I have nightmares,
I think that'd be a more appropriate question,
and this is one of them.
I'm a living one.
Can we get the...
Why did this NPM thing pump back to 2 mil?
Like, what's going on?
Dev is buying. I bought back in at the bottom too
we are getting addicts yeah yeah i love i love that i'm not a single i didn't know why it crashed
other than no like the only discussion i've heard about this coin is about the chart nobody's
mentioned anything uh about the fucking coin that's because it's npm dude it's literally npm
like i it's you don't even need i don't even know anything about the coin it's because it's NPM, dude. It's literally NPM. Like, it's...
You don't even need...
I don't even know anything about the coin.
It's just...
It's the NPM run dev shit.
Like, that's...
You hear the name,
and that's what it is.
It's like, oh, duh.
So it's a meme based off that?
No, you fucking idiot.
Oh, my God, dude.
How did this guy make any money?
It's chiggas, bro.
I think Razzler's gonna be in a part two
how to park code video. No, fuck you. No, fuck you, bro. I think Razzler's going to be in a part two how to park code video.
No, fuck you.
No, fuck you, Bieber.
Fuck you.
Like, what the fuck are we talking about, bro?
Like, what are you talking about?
Acting like I'm supposed to
intuitively understand this shit.
What the fuck is even happening anymore?
Dude, it's NPM.
That's what?
It's NPM run dev.
Local host 3000, bro.
What the fuck?
How do you not know this shit?
So the fucking creator of that fucking claim is like, what the fuck how do you not know this shit still the full creator of that i actually have a fucking life i'd fucking miss the fucking nara bro did i
i had a half tutorial for you and you guys didn't get to that razmer i know for a fact you're
capping about having a life because i watched your stream you accidentally shared your screen
and i saw the emblem for Path of Exile 2.
I know you're fucking hiding your nerdom, bro.
I saw that shit.
Burden, your mic's not working.
I'm going to remove you, but then you can come back up.
I actually just recently played Path of Exile 2
for the first time.
Amazing game.
It's funny.
That's how I saw that immediately i was like i didn't know razzmar ran like that oh i remember
npm okay never mind i remember this this dev this dev is his face is ingrained his pfp is like
ingrained in my mind bro someone sends a tweet from this guy it's like you'll never forget that face
i think my least favorite part about sorry to trade again is that like there's all these scam coins that
just like pump for no reason and then like people just fixate on it all day like the japanese
you're talking about leave you know how tilted i get about this bro it's just like shut the
up bro you're not in the bundle can i ask you a question about your cancel thing like like are
you open to sharing like how much did you make on that?
How much did you...
I mean...
Almost 10Ks per month.
So why don't you just fucking keep...
It's kind of autopilot.
Like, I know that's not as much money as you make in the trenches,
but, like, you just said you feel mentally better.
Like, you're doing something you like and believe in.
You have enough money.
Like, why not?
Like, why go back to the trenches for now?
Just keep making...
No, I'm asking myself that. Like, I hate myself every day right now. I'm not kidding. Like why not like why go back to the trenches for now just keep making
I'm asking myself that like I hate myself every day right now. I'm not kidding like
I'm a bad irritable person right now like I know but like you I mean
My people that I talk to you on a regular basis just know this like I'd be fun everything I'm not gonna lie. I'm mad at everything. I'm not gonna lie
What about what about Kled. What about Kled?
What about Kled?
I actually think...
Dude, I love it. It's the best.
But I'm not trying to show...
Bro, it's gonna do this thing.
The only thing that matters is do you own
10 to 20 to 30,
maybe even 40% of the coin.
Take this shit off, bro.
You know what would be?
People just fucking attach this shit to me. I want no part of it
Stop it. Don't pin that fucking gay shit on here, bro. Look, can we get this back on track? You guys everybody's on my inner monologue
Yeah, hello hello. Can you hear me? Yeah, okay. What's up, birden? Okay, listen first of all
Fuck this inner monologue shit. Okay, this is like oh my god like don't even
don't even do not no no no no no no no both you fucking nerds shut your mouth for second of all
okay dude i have an ai quant like genuinely like i have somebody who lives and breathes ai
and i talked to him about it i've been talking to him about it for like years now.
And the same shit Frank saying today, like the same stuff he's saying where it's like
a fucking claudatui, claudatui.
Like he was like telling me how like he doesn't even want to work right now because he just
wants to wait for like a year to where like he can just be as productive as possible with like future ai
because of how fast it's advancing and when i hear this guy friend i was at the time i was like bro
literally what are you talking about like it's not gonna develop that fast i don't think it's
gonna develop that fast like i don't think it's this whole thing that everybody's hyping it up
to be i think it's amazing but now that i'm here like
i know it's like this everyone's like you have an inner monologue like take that out like genuinely
what he's saying is insane like it literally sounds like leap are you are you not like
like rethinking stuff i think the best way to put it burden the best way to put it burden is uh
everybody was right fighting ai like all the 2025 and then right at the end of the year
opus 4.5 comes out and then
everybody's just kind of wrong now and things are just different and so it takes a minute for it to
clock um but that's just what happened like i'm not uh i'm not even exaggerating it's literally
just what happened it was lms were just stagnating the entire year so all the fun was pretty warranted
and then it just got so it just had a leapfrog moment. And then now we're just living in that world.
But is Opus better as an LLM too?
Like, I haven't noticed that difference.
Just go, go.
I've used it, bro.
And I actually don't think it is.
I can't tell the difference, to be honest, as an LLM.
It only works if you have an IQ over 100, Resmer.
That's just me.
You're telling me Opus 4.5 is noticeably better than Gemini right now?
Dude, it is absolutely unbelievable.
I don't know what the fuck you guys are asking it,
but when I ask it about my fucking peptide fucking regimen
or fucking relationship shit, it's the same.
You have the same fucking reply.
You have to use it in a terminal.
It only works when you have an IQ over 100.
Wait, can I?
No, but really help me out.
There's so much noise right now i mean it's like
i mean i do one space every two months and it's too much for me genuinely like i have i think i
have to change it to once every six months at this point for me to even mentally be able to process
this if there's like one person speak honestly six different instances of clod up here would
be able to recognize when someone else is talking more so than what's going on here. Okay. Like one at a time is not, you know what I mean?
This is not gas town.
It's not baby town.
Okay.
Look, can we, um, uh, the dude was trying to say something.
What's up, dude.
I gotta see doob on the cloud.
Opus four and five, man.
That's going to be different.
You'll retouch it aside, Frank.
Like, how is it better, bro?
Please.
No, I bet you if we do a call for like 30 on this
and we get you on the terminal
asking whatever the fuck you're trying to ask it,
like, we'll just do it.
Like, again, I just don't know what he can't do.
Like, what are you trying to do?
What are you asking about peptides?
What'd you ask?
Yeah, I fucking say, yo.
Like, what?
I'm like, should I fucking, da-da what i'm like should i fucking this is happening this is happening should i increase my dose like some bullshit like that bro and what did it say same thing that gpt says yeah if you if you did it on
terminal i'll be like you would say can you go research it and cite your sources and you're
gonna find all this stuff.
And then you're going to find the right, it'll find the right thing.
Whatever the fuck you're looking for.
If you don't want to ask it, you ask follow-up questions.
It's going to get there.
If it's on the internet, if you can find it with your eyes on the internet,
it'll find it, process it, save it on your fucking hard drive.
And then do what you fucking set up calendar, invite the reminders for you.
Do whatever you want.
You just have just keep asking. I asked Jim and I what what five plus five was and it gave the same answer as Opus
like I don't understand
I'm not even trying to like Razzman. Are you building a peptide product that you just want to like?
No, I'm just saying like what Frank is saying the wet the web version of all
these things are basically like are very similar well I'm talking about
specifically is the terminal version and the like ID version and again you can
use that as a chat it has the ability to write and read files this is very
different like if it can write files it could do research on five different
sources write files for all of them pull pull the best stuff, and then give you a simple answer.
It can't do that.
There's like limits on the website.
From what I'm hearing Rasmus say, like if you're just like Magic 8-Ball, can you give me this answer?
I think Gemini is a lot easier to use. use but like if you're trying to think like an actual researcher and you're trying to
you know create a net new or more complex thing then yeah you're gonna be using opus you're not gonna be good wait but hold on okay so what do you think is the problem with what rasmur said
he just said like i'm asking about peptides bro like he's kind of you don't know if you want it's
not gonna find it like how is it gonna figure that out frank is the one on our donor frank is 100 right here because
it was the same conversation i was having with my friend a long time ago where i was like okay
i'm not gonna lie like ai's been around for over what what a year or two at the time like just
talking to it talking to about it with him and he was like yeah your average person you know who
looks up hey like can you send an email for me?
Hey, like, you know, like whatever,
top 10 best places near me for food, whatever,
whatever questions they ask,
like obviously for them, things aren't changing.
Like for them, AI stayed the same.
That's what I'm saying.
If Rasmus says, what's the best peptide,
that's just a regular Google style search query with
maybe a little better results. But if he's saying, hey, find me the best supplier of XYZ peptide
in the Hongzhu Chinese precinct and get me a Alibaba fucking, you know, like there's a big
difference between, hey, which peptide should I take? And hey, I want to create my own gray market
supplier using Claude Opus, right? Like, these are very different things you're
trying to do. Yeah, it's honestly, I think most of it just falls under productivity. Like,
you can just produce everything much faster, and you can pay a lot less. And it's, you can get it
done yourself. And if you don't like it, you can move on done yourself and if you don't like it you can move on you know
you don't have to spend like 30 000 on an engineer to build something for you for you to just be like
oh you know what now that it's built it looks like shit you can do that in in literally an hour like
not even you can do it in less than an hour look at it and if you don't like it move on you can do
all on your okay now put it now push it to prod for customers.
I would love to see how that happens.
There is definitely.
Okay, again, that's a whole different world.
No, I know.
I'm just saying.
But if it breaks, you're fucked.
That's the issue, right?
Yeah.
There is.
Yeah, okay, yeah.
Audit your stuff.
That's fine.
But, like, again, it's just.
I don't know.
I'm saying, like. The best way to really use this stuff is to build stuff for yourself. Yeah, yeah, but I'm fine. But, like, again, it's just, I don't know. I'm saying, like, it's writing code.
The best way to really use this stuff is to build stuff for yourself.
Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying, oh, for yourself.
But I'm saying, like, if you're writing code and you're not, like, you don't know the language or anything,
you're rewriting codes each time by updating if you're not doing backups and stuff like that.
That's just, like, a 2025 take, man.
But I'm saying, like, it breaks.
It just is.
It's an outdated take, man. But I'm saying like, it breaks. It just is. It's an outdated take, though.
Because I'll tell you why, like, in the last one month,
I'm not exaggerating.
You can look this up.
In the last one month, before Opus 4.5,
most developers, a vast majority of developers,
like professional developers, are not shipping AI code.
Zoom into now, a lot of pro developers are shipping pro code
to the point where there was a really popular tweet
Razzler see me talk about this before but it's like Google deep mine one of their top researchers
It's like beginning of January cool deep mine one of their top researchers tweets out
I'll go find it right now. Well, well someone else is talking um
tweets
We were working on a problem for a year at Google deep mine
I plugged it into quad code and it solved it in an hour.
And a lot of these pro developers went from shipping basically 0% AI code in the last month
to shipping almost 100% AI written code.
Cloud Code is written by Cloud Code at this point.
Every time they put out a new update, these anthropic fuckers,
they tweet like, people ask them, how much of it was written by Cloud Code?
And they go, 100%. And it gets a bunch of fucking likes and retweets people like holy shit like agi is here or whatever this is all like new so when i say your take is a little outdated
it's just like the professionals are using it now like it's a shit professional code
devs like literally using like they're using ai right now but they understand every single fucking line right so if something
breaks they can redo it it's just a faster in progression right like they're they're using ai
to train these people that's for 2025 listen listen jay jay but the thing is jay's not wrong
like if you're just like a random normal no he wasn, he wasn't wrong. I agree. He was not wrong. For a very long time, he was not wrong.
Exactly.
And again, even today, you might want to audit your thing before putting it into public.
Sure, like whatever.
But did you guys see what Base16Z made the other day with his Wordle game?
Where you could basically compete with people to just one v one them and
then just like whatever like he built that in like five days it's not like a crazy invention
whatever but you can just build small things like that put them out if it breaks it breaks like and
it probably won't that's the best thing about it it's like it's it probably won't um and if it does
it does it's not like the biggest i don't know jay has a good point when it comes to
is that a 25 take to be honest it it like it matters when it comes to like a really large
uh project with a lot of breadth like you can't if you expect one agent to be able to understand
a massive code base with like a hundred thousand lines or more in it or a million lines of code
it's not going to be able to do that and so you have to have some
sort of structuring in there so you're you're right there like right now i have like just i just it's
just trust like i i know a friend that's literally been fucking coding since eth came out and we build
algorithms on polymarket and i would say yeah 80 is literally by Claude Code. They're working models right now.
They are profitable.
All the fucking articles that you see literally are some of my bots.
But the problem is, if it wasn't for my friends that understood every fucking line, it would break, to be honest.
So, like, yeah, like.
I'm going to call bullshit.
I'm serious.
No, I mean, he's kind of he's right in the sense of maintenance.
When you put something into production,
maintaining production code is well beyond designing and writing it the first time.
It's a DevOps task.
Cloud code will eventually get there to where it's good at DevOps,
but not right now.
Yeah, but it's kind of like a pointless...
It's kind of like... we're talking about such deep ball
we're talking about like such deep ball knowledge that like it's
It's just like semantics to be honest like okay. Yes good though
Like to your point before like I wasn't using cloud code before because I was like I can write this code better
and in the last like three weeks
it's
like now I just I literally even i use this like
program to speak into the computer because now it just presents me with shit and it's not shit and
i'm like no change this interface clean this up do this it just fucking does it and i'm like this is
wonderful like before yeah autocomplete was great and i could bounce around files faster now i can
like make it plan a whole architecture
in plan mode and then be like okay implement it and then just like walk through the changes and
be like change this change this change this optimize this and it just fucking does it it's
like it's amazing like you know it's fucking great to like kind of bring it back into crypto just a
little bit is like three years ago i genuinely did feel like i was at like the cutting edge
of technology like this is like the future and like now dude i'm just like i can't ignore ai
anymore to the point where it's like i love blockchain i still believe in the whole bitcoin
thesis but like the impact it's gonna have on the world the real real world, like three, four years ago, I was so heavy in blockchain and
crypto. And right now it's like the more and more these months go by and like, you know, in the past,
like whatever, like three months, it's upgraded from like a flip phone to like an iPhone 30 that
doesn't even exist. It's like in a year from now, what is that going to be in a year from now what what is that going
to be and i think like again blockchain tech is great but at the rate ai is just upgrading itself
is just i can't like i can't just not get involved with that even being in crypto to be honest
i i feel more of an obligation to lock in with AI at this point than blockchain or like anything else that
means your passion wasn't really in blockchain right like you really want to get involved in
something because of the course they're not exclusive by the way one thing I just want to
bring up Jay's I think pretty much right in everything he was saying because it's the it's
he was talking about I think Jay tell me if I wrong, but it's not like devs at Google or
Meta or like a sophisticated tech company are just prompting like natural language.
Hey, AI, build me this or build me that.
There's still a lot of technical prompting so that they know exactly what they want out
of something and then the ability to review it to make sure that it's like really solid,
valid code.
So I think like you guys might've just been agreeing all the time.
It's just about kind of like the prompting.
Cause even when you see those stats that like, yeah, Google might be up to 40 to 50% of AI
generated code, still like the devs that are actually interacting with AI are doing it
in a really technical way.
And also like, if it gets to the point where it's just like all natural language
prompting well then your advantage is completely if everyone can do everything the advantage isn't
there unless you just want to build a lifestyle business and go direct to consumer which is great
that's where i think the opportunity right now is either dtc and optimize shipping like product that
people will pay for or like building you, mini apps that make your own organization
or individual life more efficient.
But yeah, Burden, I don't know, I feel like what you said,
and I don't want to like rag on you,
but like this is what, you know,
I'm not in this ecosystem a lot,
like Leap is a rare exception that kind of,
for some reason, like I see that hat
and I want to, you know, participate in talks here.
But man, like that's the fundamentally like that
you kind of highlighted a major issue, which like, the culture of the entire ecosystem, like,
I've been in tech for like a decade now. And I go to tech conferences, I just came out from CES.
And the passion, the excitement isn't about, wait, how much are you selling that product for? Wait,
is there a reach, like a flip on that product? The passion is about, how much are you selling that product for wait is there a reach like a slip on that product the passion is about whoa you just achieved that through like you know
ai infused robotics are you just like um were able to build a paper-thin battery or now there's a
digital twin that can you know prevent or anticipate diseases it's all around the excitement around
the product and i think that um look there are those infra builders in blockchain i don't think they necessarily
spend a lot of time on on twitter but um but i would say like i think like what you said is kind
of like illuminating right you want to go where your your passion is i think your passion is in
content right but which i think you can i mean you're good at that, but, you know. Well, I can't. Something interesting you brought up that I've been thinking about a lot is like.
First part of what you said where, what do you call it, with the AI stuff and you build in production-ready code or whatever, like, you know, it'll build stuff that works.
But, like, you still got to kind of know how to prompt it to ask it to make sure, like, your code is secure and stuff, right?
Where, like, with my stuff, I had, I mean, first of all, you gotta, from an architecture standpoint, right?
You gotta design the system
from a good architectural base, right?
So you gotta know how to prompt it that way.
But then also like when you're doing like security stuff,
like you could tell it to run a security review
and it'll do that.
But if you want actual secure systems,
like you have to know, oh yeah,
go find hardening documents for the systems I'm using.
Go test it against those things.
And like there is some like security stuff
and other things you have to know to be able to prompt it but once once you give it the right inputs it
will figure that stuff out um to pretty good extent i was an ig auditor before right so like
i kind of went through my processes to secure my systems like i normally would but i just had
ai help me and make it 10 times quicker than it would have ever been right so the fuck has a car
drive am i dude i mean it's like people will unmute their mic and they're on a runway like 10 times quicker than it would have ever been, right? So, who the fuck has a car drive in my car?
Dude, I mean, it's like people will unmute their mic and they're on a runway.
Like an airplane is above them taking off.
We've got some motorcycle here.
And they are in...
Wait, Lee, actually, can I just...
I totally forgot the main reason I came up on the stage, dude.
All right, I'm no gambler.
No gambler whatsoever, right?
But you all missed the biggest multiplier all year. I don't know what you all
were paying attention to, but the Indiana University Hoosiers went into the season 100
to 150x underdog. By the time, even if you missed that, fine, you missed it like they weren't
expected to win it all. How could I have not missed that? You go into the playoffs, you go
into the playoffs as the number one team, and you still add a
10x if you pick them
at the beginning of the playoffs. Again, no gamblers here,
but dude, it was fun. They're the
good guys, undefeated.
Go Hoosiers.
What the fuck is a Hoosier?
What the fuck?
Someone from the state of Indiana.
I went to college then.
What happened about the Hoosiers?
We missed out on the Hoosiers. We missed out on the Hoosiers.
Birding, go at the water.
Back to this context to prompt Claude.
What I'm worried about is that people are going to become so dumb
because all the smart people build all the things,
and then you go to build something,
and you have no architectural knowledge or all the stuff that like colleges teach people so that you can like prompt AI to like ask it all these details things.
And then I think we're going to have like this like drought of knowledge.
But then at the same time, like when I was going through college, what I realized is that like a bachelor's degree is like not sufficient to do a job nowadays.
Like you basically need a master's degree to do anything at like a comparable level.
And it's like, how can this continue?
Like if technology gets so advanced, like we have to consolidate information somehow
because like you can't expect every student to get a PhD to like get an entry level job.
And like AI do think we'll eventually fix that.
But like on the path there, I think we'll eventually fix that but like on the
path there i think we're going to become really dumb because all the smart people like build
things and make it too easy i felt like i learned 90 of what i needed on my job on the actual job
over time like compared to college but yeah but that's because you had more knowledgeable people
teaching you those things right what happens when all those knowledgeable people are gone
and it's just been
like imported to the ai and technology is changing and adapting and like who's updating the ai with
new information right yeah i know dude i heard you need to like thing like computer science is dead
like the people that are actually that's retarded right now are the people that like took computer
science and just understood coding prior like this is like dude this is like it's like it understands everything and you get like a memory leak bug
and you're like a vibe coder like how are you going to decode memory leak so let me ask you
this let me ask you this then um so i was and and maybe frank has some input on this too um
or anybody anybody who's been doing the vibe coding stuff in general.
I was talking to...
Donate.gg has become basically just an infrastructure project.
The front-end donation stuff is cool and all,
and we have some completely revamping of that coming out soon but we've been working like heavily on just like
the the rails to basically get crypto as cash into the bank account of charity all in one fluid
motion and that's been like the majority of our focus over the past couple months of among like
a couple other things which is by the way like really complex when you're talking multiple
different chains and infinite amount of assets and 10,000 plus different
shares.
Like it's, it gets really complex.
And I, uh, put, I was in our Slack and I put the, the Ralph Wiggum article, um, the everything
is a Ralph loop.
And I was like, are y'all loose?
And this was the engineers.
I was like, are y'all using Ralph or any of these new Opus stuff?
And I know the engineers all use AI and whatever, I just don't know to what involvement.
We haven't really talked about it too much.
And one of our guys said, he said, there's nothing inherently wrong with using AI, but
people overhype this stuff massively.
I personally use AI to do menial, boring tasks, which are common and repetitive.
I do not use it for niche and critical systems. Coding is about understanding what to write,
not how to write, and AI helps with that gap. Developers are also at a disadvantage when
working on code that they didn't write, so it can produce a lot of bugs as we get complacent
and lazy. By the way, I do also think some developers are just like
maybe a little bit more resistant but that response is kind of the same response i get
from most developers that are working on like niche infrastructure systems that are like
yeah like it's really cool and like there's we do we use it for all of like the like the little
stuff we need to do and whatever but you have to like yeah i don't know
what's your response to that i don't know that kind of sounds like i i don't trust it to do a
single pr on its own i'm sorry like not if billions of dollars can be vaporized like you can make all
the changes but unless a human reads it like i just so we have like a yeah we like are really
because we're handling like donation money and stuff like that, like that's, I think that's like where we win in the biggest aspect of donate.g is like you just trust that the money's going to go to where it needs to go and like all this sort of stuff.
And, I mean, we use like CodeRabbit to like look through stuff like once in a while and things like that.
But there's like a very manual like PR process.
Everyone's going through everything and maybe that does take a little bit longer or much longer in
certain aspects but um i mean if you're like vibe coding web apps and like the risk is very small
like you know if there's a bug what happens like the ui doesn't refresh it's very different than
when you're like doing escrows on a blockchain where if you don't
do it correctly someone can attack you and drain your entire protocol and ruin your company like
there are levels to like where i would just let it go and blockchain coding isn't quite and that's
where i also get like you know because i'm like trying to lead the team and like we're trying to
hit all these deadlines and all this different stuff like i go on twitter or on x and they'll be like dude like i just you know created the next banking application in 20
minutes on claude and this sort of thing and i get frustrated i'm like fuck like is it actually
that easy um but i think there's it's like somewhere in the middle right like it's and i
think eventually it'll get a lot better, but it just seems for like blockchain infrastructure.
It's not there for smart contracts.
I'll tell you that.
That's why I was actually surprised.
Frank, what was this, um, the Google AI dev that you said he was spending a year on a, on a, what was it?
Dude, I said, I said it's a leap.
He's not pinning it.
Yeah, I want to see that.
I can't pin it.
That's fascinating.
Yeah, I want to see it.
Please.
I can read it.
I said it's a leap, but it goes.
Also leap, if these. Oh, you're so, you're so slow. Like a it's a leap, but it goes... Also, leap, if these...
You're so slow, like a rookie is a fucking...
If you see... Try to bring Robert Scoble up.
I want to hear what his favorite product out of CES was.
He also knows a lot about AI.
Actually, how do you, Pint?
They changed the...
That's what I'm saying.
You have to scroll all the way to the right, Leap.
Oh, I see that.
Yeah, I don't know why they did that.
It's fucking annoying.
Wait, who did you want me to bring up?
Yeah, I usually don't like it.
I just realized while I was speaking to call people out there in the audience in case they don't want to be called out.
Robert Scoble, he has a black and white VR headset.
I don't know why he's still wearing VR when AR is the future, but we'll ask him.
Come on, Robert.
But we'll jump.
The coolest thing was the
sharp robot hands that have
a thousand sensors in each finger and can
deal cards to you
and play ping pong with you and stuff like that.
That was the coolest thing I saw.
I saw a lot of glasses. I can talk to you saw. But I saw a lot of glasses. I can talk
to you about glasses. I saw a lot of robots, pool sweeping robots, grass cutting robots,
glass cleaning robots, snow blowing robots.
Yeah, I don't want to sidetrack Leap, but you also know a lot about AI, right? I guess
the discussion maybe just to leave if you want to keep it here, like to circle back to Leap's questions.
Like Robert, are you noticing like Silicon Valley
likes like tech companies, whether they're established
or like let's say series A backs,
are they like, how much are they incorporating AI
into like actually committed code?
And if so, like what, like are they doing like yeah how are they
how are they managing that is it like entry-level devs that are managing it is it more experienced
devs yeah no it's everybody if you're not using ai right now you're an idiot uh they're using
the semiconductor factories they're using AI to write everything.
If you're not paying attention, AI is taking over all software.
And so do you think that, like, let's say, does that give an individual idea person basically a level playing field against a, you know, venture-backed, you know, 10 or 100-person dev team at this point?
Depends.
Are the 100 dev team all using AI?
Then you're 100th of the...
I'm dead.
I mean, you visit factory...
And Robert, how long ago?
They got about 100 developers.
They're all building the next developer tool, right?
And so our several competitors have 1,400 developer tools on my AI list here on X.
I have 7,700 AI companies here on X, right?
And all categorized into things like education, real estate, medical and health and stuff like that.
Did you have an AI agent build that list?
Nope.
Built it all by hand over 19 years.
All the AI stuff over the last three years.
And Robert, by the way,
when do you feel this wave shifted
where for a while AI was stalling,
now it's gotten better?
What do you think has caused all these devs
to really start getting on it?
Anthropic Cloud seems to get mentioned a lot, but Google Gemini has gotten really good at writing code and it does multimodality a little bit better than the others. A lot
of robot companies are using Gemini for that reason. But yeah, it's an arms race. Deep
Seek from China, and there's several that are cooking right now
at the top of the hugging face leaderboard.
It's every two days, it seems like everything changes.
Yep, exciting times.
Yeah, that's my-
That was lit.
Yeah, you're right, you're right, Justin.
Robert-
No, he is.
Look, I'm all of-
I trust his
word yeah no and i'm i'm look frank i'm not i don't engage in conversations to win arguments
i just want like the truth so like for sure he has more insight than i do he's much more closer
to those companies than i am by the way this okay so leap did get it pinned it's list this is a tweet
i can read it out loud because i was talking about this. I said this to my friends when it happened, but it's like Jack Jana Dogan principal engineer at Google. I'm not joking. This isn't funny. We've been trying to build distributed agent orchestrators at Google since last year. There are various options. Not everyone is aligned. I gave Claude code a description of the problem. It generated what we built last year in an hour it's not
perfect and i'm iterating on it but this is where we are at right now if you are skeptical of coding
agents try it on a domain you're already an expert of build something complex from scratch
where you can be the judge of its artifacts like this was the beginning of the year you know this
is what like for 13 days ago um Um, yeah Opus 50 something days old
Well, it's even more it's why I just only people are late
It's coming from a Google engineer talking about Clark
Yeah, that's what's so crazy about it. Yeah, that is the fucking that's how you know, it's real
Yeah, I wonder how long Opus 4.5 is gonna keep the keep the throne you know like I feel like it's always
flip-flopping with people will catch up but anthropics been on like a mug it's like a pure
mogging of the whole AI sector especially for coding but Google for example does things that
anthropic can't like the Google Gemini is really good with video. I got this most recent video I posted
I it was a script I wrote with Claude
but it uses Gemini for the processing of the video stuff specifically a
Codex 5.2 like this is this is open AI's version of a Claude code
It's good. Like some people really like it
I think more engineer type people really like it for big code bases because it's got a bigger context window than Claude.
But I think for 90% of people, including developers,
Claude Code is just that dude, bro.
It's just really like him.
Like, there's really nothing you can't throw at this fucking thing
that it can't figure out.
Yeah, Claude Code.
Different.
By the way,
breaking news,
X has just open source the algorithm.
I just shared it on my profile.
No way.
That's lit.
We're going to go on vibe coast and shit to that,
huh?
That's what I thought you guys were going to be talking about tonight.
let's check out the open source code of the algorithm.
Have you heard of inner monologues?
Don't do this, Frank.
Wait, Robert.
What is...
I'm sticking it into...
Which tool should I...
I guess I should have Anthropic Cloud read the code
and tell me what's going on.
Yeah, that's what I was going to do.
Cloud Code, write a better version of this in my voice make no mistakes of course yeah
how much of the u.s economy is just propped up on ai right now like is that a risk
like do we just global you said what frank global economy yeah like how much of a
like what do you mean by propped up?
They just say it's a giant bubble.
I don't know.
Like how much money is invested? I look at it as a series of waves, not a bubble.
Oh, for God.
I don't want to say full sentences.
The Coca-Cola AI team was just in Silicon Valley on a field trip looking for AI and robotics to use in their business.
And they're just one of the businesses.
They're probably one of the slower businesses to adopt AI
because they're so conservative.
So if they're looking at AI for a lot of things
in their businesses, I would imagine a lot of businesses
are looking at AI for their business.
I.e. it might be a small percentage today, but it's growing quickly.
What has been, from your experience, Robert, from just what you've seen,
kind of like the sector that's been the most resistant to adopting AI that you've seen recently kind of come on board?
I'm sorry.
I was just sticking something into Claude trying to learn the
algorithm. What was the question? What has been kind of the sector that's been most resistant
to adopting AI that you feel has recently been kind of coming around to it? The American auto
industries were one good one. They resisted for 15 years to put autonomous technology into their cars.
And Elon now is going to rip them up because of that decision.
I have probably anything with unions in general.
That's a big one. Even in Silicon Valley, though, there's a lot of companies that forbid
their employees from using AI or did and now are starting to change.
But there's a lot of reasons.
A lot of it is hallucinations, intellectual property can go to open AI and set them up and we'll know all your shit, right?
There's a lot of reasons to keep people from using AI.
What's Anthropik's policy with that?
So when, you know, let's say data is hitting
their servers can you have can you localize it they're not open source like llama but can you
build those guardrails around um secure or business trade secrets etc uh you can uh um black box ai
has ways for you to encrypt all of your data all the way into an LLM and out of an LLM.
Many do not.
If you're using the API, i.e. if you're a professional software developer
and you're shoving information into like a chat GPT,
that is not supposed to be studied for training purposes or other purposes, right?
So you should read the terms of service very closely,
because if you're coming in the front door and just copy and pasting code into any of these,
you are being studied for training purposes.
Yeah.
So, you know, if you really care about it you should run your own
models Brian locally and make sure nothing
gets before you're home to God
okay well that's terrifying
or be like me
and just let it all hang out
yeah man I love being studied
how do you think I discovered
Nikes and design
they profile me amazingly well
you know yeah just let it all hang out and stick it in the clawedra
well grok knows more about me than i know about myself truth be told all right it can tell you
my chinese social score my iq my credit score my myers-briggs score um among other things it can tell you how i think it can simulate me
so it for me it's over privacy is uh in the past for me okay well that's increasingly horrifying
and go to go google gemini and turn on the personalization features, and you'll figure out how much data Google has about you,
right?
Because it knows your location, your contacts, your calendar,
your email, your TV viewing behavior, your photos,
and a bunch of other shit.
And now when you ask a question, if you turn on
the personalization features, it gives you better answers
because it knows you pretty deeply
if you're in the Google ecosystem like I am you know Google has
all my data I put my height and my weight and I was trying to figure out
what it like an appropriate BMI is or whatever and since then I've been
getting weightlifting class advertisements on Instagram completely
different platform like totally separate I don't even know how that works um but you're right i've been looking into you know that sort of thing it's just kind of scary
that it's interconnected in that way and how quick the information maybe i like googled something
about it too so maybe it came from there but why is it scary why does that scare you i mean it's
just like it's like you know a big brother. It's like somebody just watching you at all times.
Well, that's what I was actually going to mention is that, like, for, like, Frank's purpose about it, running your lifetime of thing, right?
Where it's just like, I don't know, in terms of a privacy perspective, these local LLM models are getting really good.
Maybe they might not be open 4.5 level yet, but they're pretty fucking close at this point.
So, you know, if you're concerned about that type of stuff and giving it too much of your personal information,
definitely.
Concerned?
That would be the best
before and after ad ever.
It's like before AI,
really skinny,
after AI,
all buff.
Dude,
that would be amazing.
Well, I mean,
you don't want...
Yeah, I'm going to do
my looks maxing journey
and try to get a call
of sponsorship.
That's the point.
What about this?
So I haven't really been doing
too much of the
the coding aspect of it but i've been a suno user basically since day one where it was available
what is suno i don't know that one it's um it's for music um i was trying to i was trying to figure
out um like come up with a term like vibe coding that involves music i just haven't figured out one that kind of uh like rolls off the tongue um but like i just take you know okay well that's has nothing
to do with with anything that i'm trying to do the reality is is what i'll do and it's actually
become i think it's like 20 bucks a month or something for suno and uh it's become almost
my main source of entertainment,
more so even than video games or other things.
Because I was a musician before doing all this online money shit.
I'll just take some of the songs that I've made and just put it into Suno
and then make an orchestral arrangement of this.
And now they've advanced it so much to where they have like a
digital audio workstation embedded directly into Suno. Like you don't even need Logic. You don't
even need Ableton anymore. You used to kind of like have to take the audio tracks, port it over
to your DAW and kind of mess with it there. You can all do it in-app natively now, even stem it
out individually to the specific instrument. suno i i can only imagine like
the impressiveness that opus 4.5 has on on people that you know um are like super deep into that
side of world i'll say as a musician use suno for the first time and like really dive deep into it
and and see what it can like don't just, Hey, write me a country song about, you know, drinking. And then, you know,
I think that's it.
Like it can really just create net new things that have never existed.
And, you know,
in an instant fuse genres like orchestral and J pop and dance and,
and Europe pop and all in one and in moments and infinite renditions to
infinite songs.
And what I've even started to do recently
is I'll just put my computer next to my piano
and I'll just like play in a melody
and I'll just like sing in some semblance of an idea
of what like the motif could be
in terms of the vocals or the chorus.
And then in under 10 seconds,
I can have a fully created,
and it sounds great.
It almost sounds too great.
I would say that the negative around that is that it sounds too perfect. It lacks any of the imperfections that like a human
voice would have and does like lack a little bit of that soul. That being said, it's like,
you know, we talk about like AI replacing jobs for developers or whatever. I think on the music
side, I don't even see a world in which
composers will need to exist in the traditional sense like there will obviously still be composers
but why would you pay like a hans zimmer like you know a hundred million dollars to create the sound
score to your to your film when you can just create like in especially on the instrumental side like suno
is unbelievable um yeah i don't know like i see people like focusing heavily on their it and it's
so much more of a revolution than even when the digital audio work i've made this example so many
times where it's and we talk about 2016 and how crazy 2016 was why was 2016 so crazy from a
musical standpoint it's just like logic and garage band like really got proliferated around that time
super heavily and the tools around uh like audio engineering became like all of the um
they all got pirated like back then, that's when it was really getting crazy
in terms of how you could pirate all the really expensive plugins.
And people were able to just create music from their bedrooms.
And that's how we got all the little pumps and the exosectacion
and that whole generation of people.
So I don't know.
Wait, Leap, I have a question.
Cause I,
I think I saw that they,
they raised a,
another round recently.
So you've been on to,
you know,
like since,
cause the beginning.
Yeah.
Cause I remember I was,
I jumped on just to experiment with it.
So they've been like,
they're way more advanced now than they were back then.
They met making a lot of improvements along the way.
It is not even comparable to what it was.
Like, when I...
It's almost like if you are a lover of AI and you've been diving into the tools,
if you don't go try Suno tonight, you will feel like you have...
I feel like you're doing yourself a disservice.
It's like...
It's like only ever drinking water your entire life.
And then you have a cola or something,
you know,
it's just like the,
the,
the fizziness that hits you,
the carbonate.
You're like,
what the,
this is like an entirely different world.
let me ask you,
so do you use it for also like for personal use?
okay.
You brought up like,
composers,
right.
Which actually is kind of interesting.
Cause,
um, you know, I think like the distinction between composer and like, like live up composers, right? Which actually is kind of interesting because I think the distinction between composer and live musician-performer, right?
They could have different paths.
But I love Trent Reznor composition.
I think the dude's a genius. And so now I'll go on Spotify and during the workday, I'll play the Trent Reznor radio station because it'll bring up things similar to him.
quote like trent resner radio station right because it'll bring up things similar to him
do you could you do that similarly on suno where it's like oh like you know produce new compositions
that are similar to this style of music and then it's like you're just running it all day long as
your like background just like for personal enjoyment well you still have to generate the
stuff individually but you could potentially just generate you know 50 100 200 different things and
then just like have it on autoplay and it'll just play through everything.
But it is like so there's a lot of uniqueness around how they handle like IP.
And they just I think they just like settled some like big lawsuit or something.
And there was a bunch of stuff.
By the way, I've been saying this for a minute.
I think Suno is going to be the most valuable music company in the entire world. Probably more than Spotify.
I think it's going to...
The valuation is going to be absurd.
Because there's just nobody
doing it as well as them.
They have such a head start.
What about Diddy?
What?
I think my...
He was up there.
My audio.
My Suno was interacting with
my microphone um look i uh so you can't like okay so there's like a couple things you can't do with
suno yet so one if you just like take the audio of a song that exists um like a drake song or
whatever it'll be like we're just not fucking with this we're not going to play with it because
it's like they don't want to they don't want you to be able to like replicate
that sort of thing. I have found ways to get around that. Um, so like if you play it off your
phone into the microphone on your computer and have it like upload that audio like live,
because they have like an in-app recording thing and you just like clap during it not loud enough where it would ruin the recording but like loud
enough for the for the audio signals to just pick up clapping it will not know like somehow that
like fucks up the entire system and it's like oh all of a sudden you can now do all this stuff
because it won't like it won't be able to catch it um so i've been able to do that to like really just like see how deep you can go with it and then you can get and then
i'll have like chat gpt create like the same way you can do prompt engineering around you know how
whatever you're doing in chat gpt or claude you do prompt and like really deep intricate prompt
engineering around music and uh basically create anything like again like create like net new
genres that just do not exist because humans are physically not able to like at least i haven't
seen anybody do like live orchestral fused with like edm j-pop k-pop arabic like like and then
and you put like a whole like applesauce worth of stuff together, mix it all together. And it just creates like the most beautiful thing you've ever heard, where if a composer had created that in 2011, they would have had, you know, full ride to Juilliard instantly.
And it can just score it out for you and all the arrangements.
I mean, it's just maybe it's not the most interesting thing to people on the music side, but it is just an unbelievable,
scary.
It's incredible.
Sorry.
I just had to.
Please,
please.
Good.
Good to see you leap,
by the way.
It's been a few years.
Really good to see you.
Have you,
have you messed around with Tuno at all?
Yes.
I know composers that have,
and you hear about it from all sides and they did did just settle the lawsuit with Universal and Warner. So they're now partnered with them. They're in a lawsuit for like, I think, over a year.
People copying or using the essence of an artist, like from Beyonce to Taylor Swift or whomever is covered by like Warner or these other labels, right?
So now, like, it's rolling out now that you can subscribe and so it's a certain level of Suno.
So you're protected from that.
Theoretically, like that's the way that the um the new merger is is supposed to look
oh and like right i didn't know yeah but no but but it's amazing um like the compositions
like um my friends and like the music industry or that are just now able to kind of get into it
like they're putting together what we don't have a word for like you were saying like
type of music category of music from stems from samples from like you know something that they're
able to iterate like through different kinds of prompts and um, I mean, people are saying, uh, something turn of the 17th century Westeros
theme combined with this like key melody of this very niche thing.
And then it's just beautiful.
It just, it's, and not only is it like, like, oh wow, it's like so cool.
And like all this stuff, it's the, the impressiveness for me is around the sonic quality of the actual files.
And like to be able to create that level of the audio quality itself is like you need
to be like a really skilled, if you were to do this manually, one, like the most sophisticated
instrumentation and gear and production and and and the technical skill
to actually create that like as an audio engineer and you literally can just do it in a fucking
microsecond and it's uh where it gets really interesting too is like the ability like in
suno you can create what they call personas um and the personas for this is basically like to
take it back to crypto for a second.
Like with Zerebro, when Zerebro released an album, I'm pretty sure they just used Suno at the time.
And they created a persona, which is like a static sort of like this is the voice that you can like replicate and use for as many compositions as you'd like.
positions that you'd like.
But the persona capabilities have become so sophisticated
in the past couple years where it's like, you can truly craft
like a, you know, I was listening to some of the vocals
that Suno was producing for me.
And I was like, if this, like if you could actually sing
like this IRL, you would not only win American Idol,
but you would be the biggest.
Sorry, I got a call there for a second um
it it's unbelievable and as someone who like was enrolled in a music school when i was three
and like music was my entire life up until like crypto and stuff it is a bit depressing in the
sense it's like you spend your life you you know, perfecting this craft. And
like, I don't think there would be like any like this, this sometimes like, the Instagram algo
will just like get me on a like, it'll just show me like classical pianists. And I'm just like in
that realm of the algo. And it's just showing me all these like crazy pianists, like going crazy, you know, just like these unbelievable emotional performances
and whatever.
And I just like don't think there'll ever be
really anything like that anymore.
Like I think, yeah, I don't know.
Maybe it's like a very more like pessimistic view,
but I also see optimism on that side too.
This is an interesting question for you.
And this is something that I wonder about too.
Do you think like in a hundred years,
like the next generation will be able to tell the difference between in a
generated composition and like Rachmaninoff?
Yeah,
I don't know.
I mean,
I don't know.
It's the thing is again again like with the instrumental stuff
right some of rock monon off whoever it's almost it's honestly harder to tell with instrumentals
with the vocals it it sounds so perfect that like for some reason it doesn't sound real in a way but
like instrumentals it's hard for me to tell sometimes like for whatever reason, it doesn't sound real in a way. But, like, instrumentals is hard for me to tell sometimes. Like, for whatever reason.
So I don't know.
And I actually...
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't want to say, like, AI is, like, the death of, like, classical live, you know, performance.
I just don't see as much of, like, a...
I think in general for music.
But at the same time though, it's like,
if I want to take the other side of the argument, there's nothing that compares to live music, right? Like the feeling of experiencing, you know, sound waves with your peers and like,
whether it's like a, you know, John summit in miami freak concert everyone jumping going crazy whatever to
like you know like a hardcore show where people are like like moshing and jumping into each other
so like you can't replicate that so you know we used to have the same conversation when the
metaverse was a really big thing um it was like oh people will just like listen to travis scott
and fortnight they won't go to real concerts anymore.
And that turned out to be like very inaccurate.
So it's interesting.
People are coming back to IRL like in full force now, right?
There's actually even like a decline on time spent on social media.
The interesting point you brought up earlier, though, Leap, which is like, so like, you
know, like live musicians, singers, et cetera, bands, like I see that like still thriving.
But the composer
role is kind of interesting. I wonder if we see almost like a resurgence in like live, like, uh,
you know, classical music or even, you know, cross genre music. Like one of the best concerts I ever
saw was, you know, James Blake with the LA for Almonic at the Hollywood bowl. Right. So I wonder
if we like see more of those kind of acts where there's like crossover.
And even if it's AI that created the composition,
like people want to, I think still see, you know, humans, um,
perform the live act. Right.
I hope so. And I, and I think so. Um,
yeah, I hope it thinks so.
You know where the music thing
we'll just have to wait and see.
I mean, you know Blau, of course.
He has been basically telling me
for two years, he's like,
yeah, AI is just going to eat music.
I think he's an early investor in Suno, right?
I don't know what he's an early investor.
He's definitely a big supporter of Suno
and he
yeah I mean he was like
he's how I got introduced to it actually
because they were like building
kind of like almost tokenization tools
on top of Suno for a bit
by the way speaking of that
what him and his brother have built
I think is like
hopefully it will last like an unsung hero of uh
of the past um you know year because they effectively like if people embraced it build
out a system in which you can really support creators without speculation i think it's really
cool what they built but i don't know the traction yet but yeah have you tried it at leap yeah so i've actually bought i think i
bonded like five grand to him or something like that um so i've used it and uh i in this same
thing i told him so i'll um there's not anything i'm saying behind his back but i literally told
him this i think it's such a great idea to be able to like you know support the the creator
the influencer the whatever and then be able to just take that money back at any point but still everybody wins which is basically through
like yield and morpho vaults and and all this stuff has like some interesting on-chain mechanisms
um the name is good the brand is good i just think the um it is like so hard to get people
to use something that's like hey if you put five dollars into this thing like you make
like a dollar or something you know what i mean like it's it's right now the space is so intense
and so aggressive and so like what can you do for us like what can we get from supporting you
and i mean think about like the the standard that exists right now which is like we buy your bags
coin and potentially this thing
goes like a bajillion x you know like that's that's the expectation is like we're supporting
you and we want the thousand x in return not like the you know free membership to your thing or
whatever so i think blau is like like exactly he's like building like the unsung hero all this sort
of stuff he is just in a landscape that is so hyper competitive with like
what you can return to participants of any protocol that it is just like when you're saying
participants you mean on the creator side or the supporter side i think on both sides because think
about the creator side from like bags or pump or whatever it's like you have the opportunity like
the the ralph guy ralph wiggum or uh maybe it was gaston i can't remember but
made over 300k in like a two days like that is the the amounts or that you know the grandma that
was like raising money for her you know like the family member with cancer like they raised like
100k in like a couple days it's the the amounts are so like the velocity in which you can make money when token, you know, go up is the mechanism for fundraising is, yeah, it's just like, it's hard to compete with, which is why, I mean, I've been thinking they people will like create coins for these charities and it'll raise a bunch of money and and these charities
are like again in crypto but that's because the market man like the market for his product for
your product for a lot of people's products it's not here like what you guys are all trying to sell
to like digital slot machine addicts right but like you're not selling to fans like the fans
are like on patreon like the fans are like that's like the, right? But like, you're not selling to fans, like the fans are like on Patreon, like the fans are like, that's like the competition, right? It's like, and there
I think is a valid pitch that it's a better model than Patreon, where you're paying a subscription,
you know, over time. And, and you can still, by the way, like do a lot of interesting things with
your supporters that that you bonded to right in the risk free aspect. That's why I asked, I don't,
I'm not familiar on the creator side, like, if it it's just like so low the the payouts to creators then like yeah then it
doesn't have rick a great pitch against like a patreon or like a gofundme but i don't think like
the audience is here like the flippers that's not fans really right so so the the payout is like
yield from my understanding and they and more folks like obviously you want to talk about some of the products
that were just like huge winners this cycle that
you know don't get talked about as much like
are you Hoosier fans 150 to
1 odds going into the season go Hoosiers
okay I
don't know anything about the Hoosiers look
I will say this is
what you're saying is absolutely true
I think there's a middle ground
and I don't think it should be all the way in one direction
of like because this is the
problem too it's like oh we're not selling
like this is not the right audience for this type of
product and
I've had to like come to terms with this in a lot of ways
even in regards to donate.g
which is like you either have
PMF or you don't
and like you could say that like, oh, the audience is not right
or the behavior of the consumer isn't correct or like whatever.
But it's just like, again, like people either want to use the product
or they don't and you can either find a way to get to the right audience
or you can't.
And that's like really, yeah, it's really hard. Um, especially in our case, it's
like our product is you giving money to charity. Right. So it's like not something that you're
going to use every day. It's not, you know, but, um, so it's like, how do you position that? How
do you do like, so we have like a couple of things that we're doing and we're going to,
I know I've been saying stuff coming soon, but these things take time and, um, you know, we want to put out the right work, but trying to find that middle ground of like, how do you enable and basically get in touch with, you know, the people who are moving liquidity every single day?
Um, and how do you like kind of captivate that and, and, and put it towards your product. So, well, I think you, I mean, I don't know, obviously all the ins and outs, but I think
you all are like in a position where like the actual intrinsic value of blockchain makes
so much sense because you're solving a problem that, you know, people, donors have in the,
you know, off chain donation world, which is like, you know, tracking where their money
is going.
And is it actually ending up like basically, basically, like, true provenance, like, right, on-chain provenance of
when you put a donation in, when the donation gets spent, and then even potentially if you
could eventually do this, like, the impact on-chain, like, though, like, the story within the history
of what provenance is, is, like, massive what I think like what there's guide star right guide stars
The only platform I know maybe there are others now that would like rate like nonprofits and how they spend money
But man if you could get and I know it's difficult because you're dealing with like these
Institutions that are not necessarily
You know even have on chain rails yet, but if you could get them to that place like
you're solving a pretty big problem so we actually use guide star so we have a we have like a deal
with them and um we this is like one of the things that we like did in december which we we've like
made a lot of updates to how like the actual product works we're just like haven't really
been talking about it because it's i just rather ship ship ship get like I don't know maybe my strategy works
maybe it doesn't but that's that's the strategy we're taking and so that's how we like populate
because we went from six charities to over 10,000 charities like right now on donate.gg in the
search bar you'd be hard-pressed to find a single charity in the United States that's not on there
and if it's not on there just send me a message and we'll get them up in under 24 hours. Because we use GuideStar. They have all the information
about every single one of these charities. So we can just populate all that info. The challenge
then becomes, and this is where a huge part of the battle is too, is because our model is instead of
like, and look, the other nonprofit and look the other like non-profit websites
are like really great or the crypto donation websites like i think they do great work and
they like pioneered the space but all of those basically have required the non-profit to still
manage their own crypto and and have like a centralized exchange account and do the off
off ramping and like do all of that stuff and like my vision is
like the money gets donated and it just lands in as cash in the bank account of the charity
and which is like a fundamentally different like uh positioning of like how this thing can work
and that is like it's just a battle because it's like you do have to have the charities kyc right
you can't just be like off ramping to like random place.
You know, there's still like a lot of legality around this stuff.
And so, yeah, it's I don't know.
Hopefully it all works out in the end.
It's not like the sexiest business.
So but, you know, we're passionate.
The team is passionate.
And I think it's like a real... And the speed, too.
Like, here's the reality, is that it just takes time to move money.
And this is like the use case, in my opinion, of like even going back to tokens and like
open source funding and like all this sort of thing.
Dude, this shit's global.
It's instant.
It's no borders.
Like, you literally can just send stable coins to literally anybody
they still have to figure out the off-ramping stuff in their own jurisdictions there's still
like other nuances but like if you want to wire somebody 50 grand 100 grand we've done like
individual you know transfers with saint jude that are like 400 000 you know like more than that
sometimes and um it just takes a like it's just instant with crypto
and i and i think for me and this is how i started the space i'd be interested to hear people's take
on it which is i just don't know if there's going to be any application of crypto outside of like a
couple things one of them being just the ability to move money like payments um and i think a lot of like the consumer type
applications um that aren't like at a big advantage by use like having that enabled
where they can just move money quickly anything that's not using that or have like some deep
speculative like degenerate aspect to it i think is going to struggle a lot going forward i did see
a a16z's like you know they posted the whole thing and privacy is
something they're really interested in and also um not kyc but kya know your agent so i think
that's like a really interesting thing that some people are working on now because if you think
about it if agents start to have like more identity within themselves um and become more
important like it i don't know like maybe do agents at some point like have
citizenship i don't know like it and if that is the case like do they need to be kyad like that's
i don't know there's just like it can get really crazy so no taxes on agents so see but like
imagine that is a thing though imagine like if agents don't have taxes so like that's
how like businesses end up being great like they have just like agents run everything
and hold their money for them like an offshore account type situation oh it's like not a human
you can't tax them oh that's an interesting business yeah as soon as you said that that's
where my mind went that's interesting though like dude what if they start being country locked the agents are country locked like they can't go across border
exactly i think it's a little counterproductive right now because like
get as much data as possible right but like imagine yours is so advanced you just don't
want to share it with other countries you just want to keep it to your own population i don't
know maybe maybe dude what are you all talking? They're not just going to be treated as human beings.
They're going to be controlled by human beings or entities that will be taxed.
They're not going to be citizens.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
When was the last constitutional amendment that's happened in this country?
You think the first constitutional amendment we're going to have,
or the next one is going to be, yeah, let's make these robots citizens?
I mean, it's, tesla optimus i mean elon said that all doctors will basically like he's like there's no
point to basically being a surgeon at you know the robots are going to do it and maybe the time
frame could potentially be uh maybe longer than he had said or what i don't really know what the what the time frame is
going to be but he launched under time he's definitely going to be longer he still doesn't
come out with that other tesla yet yeah look at the perfection takes time look here's the thing
there is i've been saying this since 2023 and i i do believe that this is the truth
i think sooner than people expect people will be be getting, like, especially if, if optimists
can, um, like the math, you have like an optimist, it's a robot, it's human shaped.
Okay.
It's gonna get a bit crazy.
And now you have the AR, Justin, AR.
Leap, just because it can do, there are 3d printers that can print products.
We're not making 3d printers.
So you're going to go to, you're going to go to Congress and you say, look,
it's human shaped. You know, it has that going for it. You know, like,
I don't know. I don't see like us getting into that territory.
How are people like marrying their fucking life?
Okay. But what if the AI demands it? What if it says, give me citizenship?
Then like, who are you, what are you going to say?
Oh, okay. We were thinking demands something.
What are you going are you gonna say okay we were thinking demands something what are you gonna say then um look i think there is a world in which and this is truly you know
when talking about inner monologue you close your eyes can visualize this is what i visualize
your optimist is walking around you got your ar glasses and all of a sudden you can make this
thing look like anything you want it to look like and then secondly you got your little ar gloves
and they can feel like anything you want them to look like. And then secondly, you got your little AR gloves and they can feel like anything you want them to feel like, right? They just, the haptic
feedback, everything's changing at the touch of your fingertips. Now when I'm touching this thing,
it's no longer like a cold piece of metal. It's a fucking whatever the fuck you want it to be.
And when you look at it, it also looks like whatever you want it to look like.
when you look at it, it also looks like whatever you want it to look like.
And I look to people fall in love with video game characters.
I saw like a TLC, like my strange addictions type thing.
This guy was having sex with his car. Okay. I don't put it past.
I also saw this one. This lady was like,
I've seen that one, snorting her drinks. Did you guys see that?
She's like blending up her smooth, her food and,
and eating it through her nose. Look, it's just going just gonna get crazy did you see the one that was eating the mattress
i that seems like something you just imagined but it's gonna get crazier than you could
potentially even expect and i think people will be having full-on sex with their robots
in their house in the next 10 years and then human embryo sort of like womb type situation
i think next thing you know it's a bunch of baby burdens running around and a robot gave birth to
them and i just don't think that's as far as people that would be a true drone it would
literally be a drone and i don't think that is as far off as people expect it to be.
And then if you take it a step further, Neuralink, you know, you listen to Peter Thiel,
like the transhumanism, this idea of like, you know, fluid in terms of like your humanistic
nature. Are you a human? Are you a robot? At what point do those get fused neural link in your brain you're uploaded to the computer like it's these things sound like science fiction and i
just fully believe that they won't be in the next like maybe that stuff is a little bit longer
maybe that's more like 30 to 50 years but it's probably depending on what you're talking about
like in terms of cognitive enhancements from neuraluralink is probably before the 30 to 50 year mark.
Sorry,
I'm just going to nerd out for a hot minute.
Please.
But everything else with Neuralink,
I mean,
we're seeing that in the beta trials,
you know,
as far as like restoring mobility,
like,
you know,
cognitive
and visual enhancements and, you know, being able to move things with mind,
you know, like performatively. Like, so that, these are slow steps, but
there's a whole lot with the way that that works and, you know, how it gets administered through policy and everything like that.
But Scoble can speak about BCIs in general.
Like, there's going to be other types of things
that you would compare to Neuralink,
like, you know, brain-computer interfaces that are available now.
You know, it's global.
A couple are cooking.
I mean, there's specialized ones like Mayron Gribitz runs a company
that puts a dime-sized thing in your skull and gets rid of severe depression, right?
depression, right? But that's hardly what Neuralink does. There's hats coming in about two years that
But that's hardly what Neuralink does.
are going to do something similar to what Neuralink does today. Although Neuralink is going to keep
expanding to have higher resolution and be able to shove data into your brain and pull it out,
right? The next 10 years are going to be highly fascinating in this field
there's a there's a lot of companies cooking underneath the surface they
haven't come out of stealth mode yet i think um you know there's a lot of like
typically when we talk about neural link or any of these like brain interfaces there's a lot of uh
There's a lot of, like, deservingly, like, people are skeptic.
But I ask myself, you know, would I do it?
But I mean, I don't think I would be, like, the first person to do it.
But if it was, like, proven to be safe and, you know, all this sort of thing, it's like, I think about it the same way I think about, like, GPT or Claude or whatever.
It's like, why would I not?
Why would I just put myself at a huge
disadvantage compared to everybody else who's using these things? And I think the world is
just going to become increasingly hyper-competitive, more so than it even is now. And you will just be
at a disadvantage if you don't have godlike super intelligence built directly into your brain.
Which is, you know, I'm 30, and I'm not, you know, lucky enough to have kids and a
family yet, but I would like to.
And I think about, you know, they say, oh, how do you raise your kids in the TikTok era
and all this stuff?
Dude, forget that.
Like the worst that can happen now is just like brain raw and they start spamming six,
seven at the dinner table.
The, the, the biggest fear is how do you or not fear but just curiosity is like how do you
raise children when instead of like you know they learn to ride a bike you know at age whatever
they get their first this and that it's they get their first neural link and i you know and i'm
sure that age will get like lower and lower and lower.
Wait, Leap, you're 30?
Dude, just relax, okay?
It doesn't... Hey, welcome, Leap.
Welcome to 30s.
Okay.
I mean...
See you later, buddy.
No, I mean, I already feel like I'm at a massive disadvantage.
That is the reality.
There's kids trading right now.
Someone mentioned it earlier. It's not even an exaggeration. reality there's there's like kids there's like kids trading right now there's someone's mentioned
it earlier it's not even an exaggeration there's 16 17 year olds trading that have seven figures
and they're just throwing it around you know it's uh the game has become people are it's just like
counterstrike or even any video game like the the new people that are coming up are just so
incredibly advanced because they grow up with all of the techniques and everything's just available at their fingertips.
And how do you raise kids in the generation of Optimus robots and Neuralink?
And, you know, do people just stop having kids?
Like what do does AI satisfy that need?
I don't know.
I hope not. I don't think so. With, with kids.
So if we're talking about LLMs or any AI tool that's used in the classroom,
I think it is paramount that the kids should be advised to ask,
why do you think that the system came up with the answer that it did?
You know, critical thinking, if there's a way for that to be
encouraged, that that should be encouraged and supported always. With robotics, I do think that
there's probably more of a short, well, it depends on the different fleets that come out. But if we
have like a robot in the classroom, for example,
it could be like a supportive aid to the teacher. But this could be a positive thing because they
can pick up on kids' micro expressions. Like maybe they didn't get the math lesson, or maybe
there's trouble at home. Maybe they're being bullied. You know, like they can pick up on things
and address it. Here's the thing though is
i feel like again and then this gets into super like sci-fi whatever but first of all if they
came out with neural link right now or like burden like we want you to be the first like
you know test subject like you know we don't even know it's like 50 50 i'd literally say do it
put it like right here back of my head like literally do it like 50 50 is a bit i'm not
even joking if they told me 50 50 i'd say do it like why they get the inner monologue no just
till i get a dude this is the thing is like you just want to be ahead like even with this
claude stuff all of this this is like the way I see it is like early
iterations of what like new, like, okay, let's think Neuralink, for example.
Like, I don't think there's going to be a baseline Neuralink that's going to be like
the end all be all.
You put it in your head.
I think there's going to be multiple levels to it.
And like, you know, they're going to be more expensive.
They're going to cost more like the upper echelon of the world they're like going to stuff it into their kids at like fucking one year like two two years whatever
however old they are as young as they can get and just get them locked in and just get them ready
to be ahead and just be as smart as possible and claude right now is like dude like just use it, man. Just fucking use it. Wait, burden. 50-50 what?
50-50 I die.
Do it.
So you're saying that you don't want to be left behind,
but there's the potential that you're completely left behind?
Yeah.
By the way, you know some of the, you know.
And I'm like complete.
Like this isn't even anything like whatever.
No, I hear you.
If you gain first, you're last, you know, complete like this isn't even anything like whatever, like first your last, you know.
But, you know, it is burden, you know, some of the biggest like tech CEOs there's going to be such like a rush to infuse people with, I mean, yeah, there's going to be definitely a segment of it, but look, I don't,
I think these things, we just, we assume that it's always an acceleration towards one point,
but it's not, it's not always just like a straight line as an example. Like, look, the kids growing
up, you know, kids in high school now, they are Now less online by far, you know than the previous generation, right? Like and like creating more like physical irl
experiences and you know
years ago everyone was saying five years ago
Everyone's saying oh everyone's gonna just live in virtual worlds. No one's gonna
Be I you know in irl but like actually like that's not that's not the case
Like the last three years saw decline in time spent across the board on social media, you know, in IRL, but like, actually, like, that's not, that's not the case. Like the last
three years saw decline in time spent across the board on social media, you know, and it's led by
the youngest of generations. Here's a more dramatic example with the industrial revolution
where machines were taking human labor, like physical labor jobs. that actually was a catalyst for the rise of the fitness industry.
So you didn't have people going to the gyms trying to be stronger than machines so that they could get their jobs back or be better than machines in that way.
It was more about being able to flex a muscle that might become underused or like atrophy in that time of societal change.
But it also catalyzed like a rise of intellectual careers, et cetera.
And so I don't think that, I mean, I think overall what I'm trying to say is that
I think it's about changing the outlook about
identity like the disconnecting the connection between identity and intellectual ability
memorization all of the things that we've been taught through education a very modular linear
meritocracy and like actually like starting to think about maybe the things that
uh we were discouraged from creativity how many people wanted to be musicians or actors or like
explore creative practice but were encouraged by their parents instead to go down the path of lawyer, doctor, finance, like all of these different avenues
that had at one time a more promising outcome.
I don't know.
I think it's not necessarily a bad thing,
but I don't think the answer is become the machine
or try to beat the machine.
I think it's like,
understand that the machine is changing
the way society will work
and how will you exist in that society
and adapt to be a happy
person and make meaning for yourself. One thing, Justin, you brought up like social media. Like,
I want you to show me a metric on the internet. Like, you know, there's... Yeah, I'll put it,
I'll post it right now. Hold on. Oh, if I learn how to do the new posting. One second. So there's
a difference between social media and just the internet. Like, I just want to put that out there.
But Leap, are you telling me right now if you got that you got the same offer?
I did like hey Neuralink right now 50 50 you live 50 50 you die. You're not taking it like actually
No, it's it's selfish. It's selfish to my family to my the people who work at donate
it's it's like I can't at this point like
Staying alive and continuing to prosper and move forward like it's not just about me anymore
Like there's a lot of people who rely on me and I think a lot of other people are in that situation, too
so no, but if I'm like
Me okay if you had asked me that maybe a few years ago when I was just full on like I will dude
I mean when I was doing those spaces as long as I was and as much caffeine
and nicotine and everything I was using to get through them I was like if I die I die that was
like genuinely my thought process around it was like if I have a heart attack from this many
stimulants and from all this stuff that's allowed me to do that do this it's worth it like anything
for the sake of legacy um now I've and that's genuinely how i felt uh
now i don't i don't feel as much that way now like i'm you need to stay at like there's no
legacy if you're not there to create it um and yeah so you don't just like play with your life
okay so okay a few things number one like i'm not gonna lie i think the amount of red bulls i took
during that era like probably took at like, three weeks off my life.
But two, that's actually a good point.
You know, I feel like if I actually did get offered that, I'd be like, oh, how about my family if I die?
Oh, but, like, everything I want to do with it.
I guess it wouldn't be as cutthroat as I was putting it out to be.
But I would definitely consider it to the highest level.
You can consider it. And maybe if it was like 90 to 10,
it's a little bit more appealing.
But let me tell you this.
How do you share things now to the top?
So you have to scroll to the side.
When you click the share button,
use your finger and just swipe to the left
on the options at the bottom
where it shows who you can share it to.
The last two are AI.
Oh, you're AI.
I thought that was like an actual AI.
Yeah.
Sorry, my bad.
No, no.
I'm surprised.
By the way, I think that they might remove spaces.
Don't even throw any.
No, no.
That's a completely different point.
But I'm... Nikita gets a completely different point.
Nikita gets a lot of hate.
I actually think these things take time, but the app is moving in the right direction. I think he's doing a tremendously difficult job.
He's doing the best that he can.
I actually think, especially over the last week or so, two weeks, it feels like the algo is getting better.
I do think that like if spaces
were going to get love they would have gotten love already um and i think that yeah i just think like
if you think about how many people actually use x it's like hundreds of millions or whatever
however much it is how many people actually use spaces i just gotta make a viral tweet like that
they are removing spaces to get them to
respond to it to just kind of you know confirm whether they are no i literally think the au of
spaces is like 20 000 like what what is the cost to like upkeep these like audio servers and all
the data to to store all the recordings and you know like the it's probably not as simple as just
like this is a room it's not like it's just like a random discord server.
Like it's complex and they've shown like a lot of different reasons why spaces are not like a big priority.
Like if you host a stream, if you're doing a video stream and you have three people watching, it'll show up in the priority at the top above a space, which 5,000 people like, it's just like things like that is like clearly spaces are not a priority.
people like it's just like things like that is like clearly spaces are not a priority um
doesn't mean like they're pushing it to like more streaming wise right like how you just said
i feel like spaces were a test to communication and then they're gonna clean up for more of the
stream wise of trying to make a platform that way i also think that they like gave a good
good i mean you're definitely right i think that they like gave a good, good,
I mean,
you're definitely right.
I think they also gave it a good push.
Like they like platformed Mario.
They like really were like,
fuck it.
Like this is where news happens.
But the reality is,
is like that just like,
I don't know.
It's just like,
not this,
it's not what it was like when it,
when it was what it was to,
to basically say it.
And that's a whole different thing that what, what it was um to to basically say it and that's a whole different
thing that what what i was going to say is um which also shows our reliance on you know but
this is the platform i love like i'm not going anywhere else i i'll stay here till till the end
if there ever is one but um bernie maybe you'll follow me on this train of thought which is i'm
just thinking about it now there's something that ai't replicate, at least not to me in any conceivable manner, which is aura.
Your aura and aura maxing and my Zora plus aura, it's a kind of slop term for sure, but it is very much a real thing.
I think at this point in 2026 going forward, your aura matters more than almost anything else. And that's just like another way, another like contextualization of like your impact, like the way people view you,
the feeling that you give to others when you interact with them or whatever. And I think that
that will continue to be like a really important thing in humanity. And now that we have like a
verb and like a, or like a, like a word, like a noun to, um, to basically describe this aspect of influence and impact
and general feeling that you give to others.
And it's become such a mainstay in society.
I do think it would continue to be more important,
and that's just not something that AI can replicate.
Dude, you want to know what's funny?
Because what I'm about to say is going to impact my aura negatively.
I understand aura to the highest level um but aura has been important for so long like i'm not even trolling it has
been important for a very long time in my head at least like it's almost how I think it's always how I've thunk or whatever thunk whatever not a word
whatever it's just it is very important and you're right like going forward that is it's just you're
right like there is no other word for it besides aura and as a as stupid as it sounds it matters
on a very high level and most people think like the word aura is troll like
whatever gen z slop leap is 100 right like aura matters in this space it's why like you know
sometimes you know a small account can say something you know and you know say whatever
and a big account can take it tweet the the same thing. And it matters way more. They just have more aura than you. And that's like the bottom line of it.
What are you guys talking about? Are you talking about algorithms?
This is the thing. No, you guys are crazy. You think this is going to be like,
oh, a business transfer of investor. Look, I mean, we have great aura. There's nothing else to it.
No, no, no, no, no. This is not a joke. Like, I know it sounds like a i am not like i hope you can hear
the seriousness of my tone or literally matters he knew i would react i did no i no i swear to god
or it matters like to the highest level aura in motion at this point in the world or emotion
um they're just like,
I mean, I don't know,
it's as important as eating and drinking at this,
but I don't know what else to say.
Do you guys realize where
this social media platform
sits on the totem pole?
You know threads just passed daily active users?
I don't know what aura you're talking about
or what motion you're talking about
because it could end in a day.
Leap, you just said spaces might be over soon.
The problem is you're not even, like, I'll try to explain it to you in a way that, like,
on the simplest level.
Yeah, like a three-year-old.
Someone has no aura.
On the simplest level, on the simplest level, like, I'm just going to give you, like, an
example.
If a homeless person comes up to you, do you think they have aura?
What is that?
I'm just genuinely asking.
I mean, I don't know.
I mean, it don't know.
Oh my god.
Doesn't it depend on the individual, not whether they're homeless or not?
Sure, sure. No, no, but I'm just putting you in a scenario.
I don't know. Being homeless is like... I would have no idea. I don't even know how you're defining aura.
Justin, just listen to me.
Prime
Michael Jackson versus some random
homeless person on the street who has more aura.
I'm just asking you. like and I'm not trolling
This is I don't I don't know about the homeless person
But I would say a prime Michael Jackson against anyone that guy you're talking about Michael Jackson one of the biggest performers in history
So you're only talking about entertainers here. I had to remember
I mean that was just like being there could not have been he got removed that doesn't sound like much aura
Yeah, that was negative aura for Bernie.
Cause that was the worst example that I've,
he brought up a very controversial person in history who I think probably
was,
we don't know about his past.
He's probably a complex individual.
And then homeless people like,
give me a better like scenario.
Could not have been the worst example.
Here's the thing.
Michael Jordan.
Let's,
let's go with Michael Jordan.
Sure. Sure. Okay, fine. But I here's the thing Michael Jordan. Let's let's go with Michael Jordan Sure, okay fine compare Michael Jordan to your average NBA player like take skill aside like
That guy could walk into a locker room. Yes
You could recognize him from his silhouette. You don't even need a full photo
You don't even need a full photo.
A hundred percent.
And this is the thing.
I'm trying to simplify something that's like you just have to understand and know.
And it's almost as simple as ball knowledge.
Like, you just have to know.
Like, it's like, I don't even.
It sounds like a meme.
But does this only apply to public performers or public figures?
No, it applies to everything.
It applies to every aspect of life.
And that's not even a troll.
Like, I'm not joking.
Look, I think. So do you think so okay but you were asked to distinguish between the ability of ai and the
ability of a person and you're using celebrities as a example to contrast with ai but really it's
it's not aura it's lived experience i think in my opinion like and so ai will be trained on the
lived experience of people up to a certain point certain voices and under trained on other voices
and as long as you are outside of what the llms are trained on you will have a unique voice and
therefore the aura or whatever like a unique lived experience that's and burdened you burdened
you think that the let's say out of the uh top um the largest 100 companies do their ceos and
founders you would say that they have aura in your eye again i don't know how you're defining it
listen justin grab their ceo make them walk through, like, and this is like thinking that the entire building knows who this person is.
Have them walk through the building and watch everybody look.
Like, that's aura.
That's because they're of success, their track record.
And that's one aspect of it.
And I don't know what the hell even that was.
God, what?
You know, that was negative aura.
You were talking about aura.
Yeah.
That was negative aura. You want to talk about aura? Yeah. That was negative aura.
Look, I think there's a lot of ways to describe this.
And I think aura isn't just like, it's hard.
And maybe it isn't.
I don't know.
You're born with it.
You're not born with it.
Sometimes it does come from successes and who you are as an individual and like what you've done in your life so like that it
it's not as like cut and dry um but i have no other way to explain it besides like it being aura
and like you either like either some people have it some people don't ball knowledge whatever i'm
trying to keep up people just want it people want it like things that have
aura people want that's literally it like for example leap like and no glaze whatever oh god
i sound like gen z no glaze what's most people probably want to be have like leap spaces aura
where you can go you know just i'm not i'm not just relax no like leap can start up a space whenever he wants being
gone for four or five months and have 400 people show up aura that is and and i know you guys are
like oh my god this gen z fucking mongoloid drone what is he yapping about i get it but it's the
truth and it's like it says it's funny it's whatever but it's the truth and that matters
and like i don't see a world where AI takes that in
and can take that away from life.
There you go.
Look, what it comes down to is it's even more like Warren mentioned.
It's just your humanity.
And by the way, okay, so I asked GPT,
So I asked GPT, what are some other terms like aura and ball knowledge?
what are some other terms like aura and ball knowledge?
And it said clairvoyance, clairaudience.
Those words have no aura.
Let's talk about race.
Brad Brothers, was that you that screamed?
Was that you, Brad Brothers?
No, I don't have a scream like that.
Yeah, what are you guys smoking for?
I think someone was trying to vocalize that
meme of the screaming person.
But yeah.
Dude, I mean, look, Burden,
look, I hear you.
I think you guys are trolling.
Justin, I'm...
I've never been more serious.
No, no, but let me bring it down to a serious level.
You're talking about also influence.
How many times do I have to say I am being serious for you to be okay but burden but there's a there's a there's a means and an end to things
right so like if there's a mean if or is the means the ends i'm assuming is okay in a in an economic
world um influence right and and aren't there ai influencers now anyway so like what do you mean
aura people are protected? Good morning, golden
They have no aura. First of all, listen, I'm not the fucking aura professor. Okay, but okay
But no, but you're the rage bait
Some people are born with aura others have to like I'm so easy to try. I know I'm so easy to troll
I'm like
I'm not even trolling you. Okay, hold on everybody how's it going what's up golden uh hey
just speaking to aura i'm glad i'm here for you guys because this conversation i don't know what
look man i was doing work concurrent just listening ai and ai taking our jobs now we're talking about
aura you either have it or you don't pure and simple it's really not a complicated discussion
there you go i just ended it now what are you guys going to talk about you guys talking about the fin bags guy you guys
that's the same dude who was licking his lips remember that video on the mr beast you already
did that okay what else you got you know who the i would say the the the aura of the year
are you hoosiers that's definition of aura right thereura right there, I think. I guess. I mean, I don't know, dude.
It's cool. I would say more like the Kalo Pass in the end zone in the fourth
quarter to tie it. That was
Aura. But anyway, who gives a shit, right?
That's it.
That's all we're talking about is Bird and Zora.
It's not just my
Aura, which I have plenty of. It's about
Aura in general. Yeah, it's subjective. It is. You're right of it's about aura in general yeah it's subjective
it is you're right about that as well like wait i have a question measure aura okay wait i feel
like the last time i was on this space literally the word that you were using was riz as opposed
to aura are you no oh god you're such a boomer. No, no, that's a completely different no. I'm not, I'm squarely millennial. I'm a mid-aged millennial.
But what's the difference between your aura and your riz?
Your riz is like, you know.
Sexual base, it's about, yeah, aura is just, you command a presence.
It's about charisma and authority.
Something that nobody else in the space has
it's been speaking listen riz is like riz is also inherent as well like they're both in the same
category of importance i will not lie i mean not as much aura is much more important actually
but riz is equally important if you're trying to get things done um and again, I sound ridiculous. I know I sound ridiculous.
You sound ridiculous.
Burden, Burden, a really serious question.
Burden, Burden, serious question.
So does everyone who has aura has Riz, but not everyone
who has Riz has aura? Is that correct?
Everybody who has aura most
likely has Riz, yeah.
But not everyone who has Riz has aura.
How does a certain amount of words give you some aura?
Now this is AI slob.
Where does lived experience fall on this ladder?
Like, does everybody who has aura have lived experience?
Again, I'm not the aura mode.
I'll tell you, I'll keep it really simple.
None of you guys have aura or Riz because you overthink everything.
You either have it or you don't, pure and simple.
There's no such thing as overthinking.
Overthinking is a fallacy. The fact that you guys are talking about this means you don't have it or you don't pure and simple and the fact there's no such thing as overthinking the fact that you guys are talking about this means you don't have it that's that's that's
the fallacy that you guys don't appreciate so right there golden is so right it is not even
funny like people you brought up the topic he basically just said you don't have aura
no leap brought up the topic i'm doubling down I'm not the aura professor. I just want to say that first and foremost.
I want to make that clear.
Secondly, I think it's just...
I'll put a bow on it here.
I think we've been doing this now for four hours.
It's like people who are rich.
They don't need to show that they're rich.
They're just rich.
You guys get it?
Negative aura for burden.
That's a negative two
positive positive it's like your aura credit score right somebody somebody can't believe he
asked if you go up to a homeless person would you think they have aura that was the wildest
question that was very extreme listen who has more aura burden or a homeless person i'm gonna go with
the homeless person over yeah i don't really you said michael jackson or a homeless person who has more aura like what kind of what is okay
yeah burden walks into a bar with michael jackson and a homeless person i will i don't know how to
put the perspective for boomers i just was like what what did they live through and it was like
what what goes on in the real world and it was like Michael Jackson and
homeless I don't know I got a better example Peter Pyatt he had a crowd of people around him at the
World Economic Forum I had no idea who the guy was I knew his name because he was wearing a badge
he worked for Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation his badge said and people were talking to him
in a biological way later I learned he discovered the Ebola virus, right? He had aura
because he was somebody who had done things in line, right?
See, this guy gets it. This guy, see, that's a great representation of aura.
No, that is aura. Well, look, I mean, just to put a, you know, to finish it up,
I think all this to say is that, like, you know,
AI bullish, but humanity bullish too.
And I think that, you know, that's important to remember.
So, look, I'm going to, it's like 1 a.m. for me.
Wait, when next space?
I don't know, six months maybe.
I literally, at this point, they're getting long.
The last one was in November.
There's clearly a demand for it.
And I do enjoy doing them.
I genuinely do.
It's a lot of fun.
So I did tell myself today.
tell myself today, like I scheduled this space specifically. And normally I don't schedule
I scheduled this space specifically.
Normally I don't schedule spaces.
spaces, but I did it because I knew if 9, 10 PM came around that I was just going to like,
like I've been trying to open a space every night for the past week and a half.
And every time it's like 9, 10 PM, I just, I don't know, like I panic, I get like anxiety.
I'm like, I haven't done it in so long. I don't know what happens.
So I scheduled it ahead of time.
I'm like, well, there's no going back.
I put the tweet out like I have to do it.
And I did tell myself that I was going to try and do a space every night this week.
So I'm going to try.
Dude, yes.
But I also, I don't know.
I feel like we've talked about everything. And we're out of topics until at least three months from now.
Positive aura right there.
I feel that.
I genuinely, 100% do.
But also, I don't know, man.
It feels like that until you're doing it.
Until you're sitting down and you start talking.
Topics just come up, and they always get really good. they do come up and there was plenty that happened i mean even just like during the space there was that whole npm thing like there's always stuff happening
especially right now um but a big part of it too is i you know when i got back from
abu dhabi for when i was in uh when, when I was at break point, um, prior to that,
I was very like, I'm not gonna lie. Like I developed like a bit of an eating addiction,
which I know sounds crazy. Cause like everybody eats and we eat multiple times a day,
but for like months and months I was just, I would just like order. And I, I live in like
the middle of nowhere. there's not that many options
like you can order like denny's you can order like wing stop like that like there's basically
checkers like that's the extent of it um so it's all like the shittiest food right
wait are you telling me you put on a weight dude i put on genuinely i think i was up to like one fucking 68 and I'm not that tall. I'm like not tall.
So like, I like, and, and, and also in combination, um, with just like this overeating and truthfully,
it was like the only time out of my day when I'm just like stuffing myself, like a whole family
platter or wings, whatever. Um, it was like the only time where I was like feeling like at peace
and it like really turned into an addiction of like,
I'm just going to eat as much as I can all the time, all day,
because that's like when I'm not like,
you just have a YouTube video up your show up,
you're stuffing your face and you're just not thinking about anything.
There's no payroll. There's no this, there's no that.
It's just, this is the only thing you're focused on.
And I didn't realize how big of a problem it became until I basically like went to the Middle East and realized, like, I don't know what hit me there.
I was like, wow, I'm like eating way too much. And, uh, but, um, no. So ever since I got back,
which was like what in the middle of December, like December 16th or something, I've, uh,
it's going to sound crazy, but I've gotten my diet down to like about 1100 calories a day. And I just eat the, I'm on the Brian Johnson plan. I've been on the Brian
Johnson stack for like a year and a half at this point, but, um, I'll do that coffee in the morning
and then the Brian Johnson protein, all the supplements or whatever. And then I'll just
have like a really light dinner, like super light, but, but enough. And I've gotten it down to like 1,100 calories.
So I've lost a lot of the weight.
And, you know, I still have some more.
I'm down to like 150 right now.
So I still have like…
1,100 consistently is pretty impressive.
Also, I can't believe you're actually on the Brian Johnson like fucking wave like I actually to me
he's like a like I it's just like he's like an online like guru like I know he's like you know
people say he's legit whatever like I actually can't believe you buy the product I so I not
only buy the product but I buy all the products. It's actually like kind of expensive.
Like I think the full thing, like if you're going to do like everything and now they have
like the hair stuff, the face stuff and like whatever.
So if you include all of that, I mean, dude, you're talking six, 700 bucks a month.
Um, and I think I've been on everything for like, again, it's been like a year and a half.
And I think I've been on everything for like, again, it's been like a year and a half.
I'm telling you, and I've never been one to like, I thought I would never be that guy
like supplements and this, that, and the third or whatever.
And by the way, sleeping well and exercise, and you'll feel better than any supplement
could ever, like those are the two most important things.
But additionally, on top of that, I used to get sick every single
time I went to a conference, I'd get sick once a month, twice a month, like real sick, like almost
like all I've not been sick one single time, knock on wood, since I started this thing. And
I've been to plenty of conferences. So immune system definitely up. And then I just like feel
better. I don't know what to say like it it could
just be that I'm on a shit ton of
creatine and like all this other stuff
like of course you're gonna just feel a little bit better
which by the way I think a lot
shit ton of creatine how much creatine
not like
you only need 5mg
I'd say probably like 7.5mg
a day okay I mean
it's not it's not crazy but like I'm also not like seven and a half milligrams a day. Okay. I mean, it's not, it's not crazy,
but like,
I'm also not huge.
and it,
you,
since I haven't really been working out,
like you do retain a lot of that weight,
like it's waterways.
So you just kind of like,
I shaved my beard.
So I have no beard.
Well,
it kind of grew back,
but I shaved the whole thing and I'm like,
holy fuck.
I got like a double chin.
Like this is out of control.
So that was like really, really what like pushed me to like to like all right time to lose the weight like let's let's
get back in shape and um but yeah i suggest it like i understand that brian johnson is a bit
cringe and all this stuff is you know whatever but if you can afford it like at the end of the day
it's just like vitamins and nutrients and supplements and just like a good eating regimen like there's nothing wrong with that um dude something i
didn't mean to ask you which i don't know why i just don't just don't fucking whatever but
why haven't you grown out your hair again dude like ever like you you used to have
past your sounds like a private phone call hey guys I can't believe you guys called me a boomer.
Dude, okay.
I'll just say, yeah, because it's not really growing.
I'm fucking 30, and every man in my family is bald by the age of, like, 12.
Like, it's not really growing that much anymore.
And that's why I just, like, I'm ordering, like, the red light hat, and, you know, it'll grow out and shit.
Like, I don't know.
I'm trying to grow it out as much as I can. The red light hat and you know it'll grow out and shit like that I don't know it's I'm trying to grow it out as much
as I can't now
the red light hat
yeah it's like red lights and it simulates cell growth
it's a whole thing
it's nothing to do
with Timo by the way
I just think
you don't realize
you're getting old until like you know the hairline
starts to recede and like you know it, it's, it's a whole thing.
So you gotta just try to take care of it when you can. And, um, yeah,
no dude, I'm glad, I'm glad you're like catching the,
the eating addiction thing because like middle Eastern people, bro, like,
once you get past like 30, 35 and stuff,
if you don't watch the way you eat bro like it just goes
into your belly i swear i just i just see it i'm telling you it's like it's stacking up um you got
it though so i don't know i mean all this to say is i appreciate you guys and uh you know always
fun to come and do this i i am going to try my best to do another space tomorrow um if there's
like a an appetite for it and people enjoy him i'll
spam him i'll spam him i'll just i don't know we'll see uh but you've been doing a great job
and i actually think that there's been that's a good pun there's plenty of space i mean the
um you're doing your spaces you're pulling over 100 concurrent um alpha's doing his spaces um
there's fin and pingu's got great ones pingu's yeah those are just usually
it's like a different time zone but across the pond they're doing great job and um frisk is you
know i always enjoy his saturday morning spaces and um so there's there's plenty of spaces and i
think um everyone's doing a good job with them and but spaces have changed it's no longer like
there used to be this like push in spaces that you like and this was like a big part of my strategy
too for a while it's like you gotta get guests and like interviews and and like spaces themselves
are like this whole content thing and whatever where now it's it's not as much that like it's
almost like a return to form of the early days of spaces or it's much more just like we're gonna open it up and chat um so i don't know but i i do
think they're gonna remove it i i've thought that for a minute and uh like i would crash out like
i'm not even trolling i would crash out so hard bro the the biggest i could be wrong and i would love for nikita to be like
fuck it monetize spaces and like all of a sudden this is like you know huge and and you can make
six figures a year doing spaces and whatever because the reality is if you're pulling 400
500 600 concurrent on twitch you're making six figures a year, dude. Like, it's,
you know, depending on your type of audience, of course,
but, um,
I don't know, you're like, you can make
money, and here you don't make anything doing
you know, I've never qualified for monetization,
not one, I never made a penny.
I've been on the platform.
Dude, you tweet one every
ten weeks.
I understand that, obviously like written form
content is like the big thing now with articles and stuff but like dude i mean come on audio is
like part of like what made this content really like the platform brilliant for a long time dude
this this sounds like a big lead up to say are you you're um you're backed by clubhouse now yeah
you're bringing it over there i don't even know know if they're still around. Is it still?
No, I think they're still around.
Dude, Clubhouse was actually a really good product.
I know people give it a lot of whatever,
but I actually think it was...
Obviously, they got overwhelmed by a big comedy coming in.
I've thought about this, man.
It would just kill it for me so hard, dude.
The thing with it here is you you have like the tweets here you
have the community here yeah and i know you guys had clubhouse and you guys ever you guys have
already done it once and i wasn't around for clubhouse but genuinely if they got rid of
spaces like oh my god man like it would just it would ruin so much for me dude not even because
i host my own you don't have a lot of aura impact dude for sure i didn't it'd be the most negative aura shit of all time i'd be under every single nikita bear beer post and just fucking footing
here's the thing though about the audio content and this is just like the reality like of course
we like it and we've been doing it but it is not getting bigger and if anything it is getting
smaller by a significant margin spaces are i
think we hit like 400 something concurrent like it got bought it for a little bit but um it was like
like organic like 400 something concurrent and um there's no way to tell how many people actually
tuned in now because it got bought it for a bit but um yeah i mean it's like dude a couple years
ago it was like 24 7 the time slots were taken
which was also a big reason why we were doing the night spaces in the first place is because
nobody was doing them um or at least there wasn't as many people doing them so it's getting smaller
the numbers of spaces are getting smaller um the amount of people doing them the amount of people who is still buying somebody bought this one earlier yeah i went to like 8k or something and i think it's some
automatic shit that's set up but that has a lot to do with like the culture and all of that to
be honest because that's shifted as well but x isn't doing anything, bro. They haven't even tried to make it better,
to try to incentivize people to use it more,
for more listeners to pop in.
There's just been nothing done.
How do they lose money on it?
I literally think they just lose money.
It's probably expensive to run spaces,
and it doesn't win any money.
Run ads! The smartest people at X have been working on the algorithm.
Now the algorithm's out and it still needs some tweaks.
Elon just wrote on my post that it sucks and they're going to make it suck less each month.
But they needed to get this rebuilt and out.
Now they can start spreading out their engineers to other features on X
and fix those as well.
So I would assume that the spaces is one of those places that's so obvious that it needs
to be rewritten and rethought.
And you brought up a great point that Twitch makes a lot of money off of it, off of their
thing.
I mean, the fact that I can't throw a coin at you right now for
throwing a great uh space is sort of stupid right they're leaving so this has been this has been
the question that we have had these conversations for years now of like and by the way there used
to be i know there's like was like lurky and like a couple other things now or whatever it is. So there were a ton of people that were building products around spaces, you know, in terms of data and, you know, rewarding.
Remember Super Spaces?
Yeah, yeah.
There was plenty.
I think it just got like really expensive with the API where they couldn't do it as much anymore. And then also there just isn't, I'm telling you, it's just like the spaces community is getting, it's just getting smaller and it's like the same group of people and it's not growing.
That doesn't mean that it can't grow.
And by the way, the political spaces are, they're always big, but not as big as they used to be.
I do think that like we've said this forever,, it would really be cool if there was, like,
subscriptions in the same way that Twitch had them.
And most importantly, and the one thing that I think could fix this,
is a live chat.
There's a huge difference between a live chat and a comment section.
And being able to see the motion of,
it's also why, like, sometimes, like, Telegram chats are so electric,
or X group chats because
you just see them you know they're coming in in real time and there's so many messages and
um you know it's what gives like twitch and kick like a really like community feel with the streams
but um i think it could be a huge winner for them but you know they're focused on the written
content and this is the reality is that one like the tweet i put out a tweet yesterday or a post yesterday i think it did like 16 or
17 000 views honestly like not crazy right but for me it's pretty good a normal space even if
you have like two three hundred concurrent maybe you have three thousand listeners that tuned in
for that it's like a single post and
that's like a five-hour space a single post that takes you a second to write can proliferate to
way more audiences and it's the reality that like written content is like it's just it hits different
um so that's where the focus is i don't blame them you know, but I would like to see, you know, like a live chat.
And we even do we have ideas like if you subscribe to somebody's space, you could get like new emojis to throw up on stage because there's only like a couple or like your name would show up in a different color.
Right. It's like little like aesthetic cosmetic things that, you know, people would pay five dollars for to just support you know their their favorite spaces host or whatever it is um so i don't know maybe they'll
do it dude i hear that argument a lot actually with like you know someone could put up a tweet
it could go viral you know the views the amount of people that see it how many people actually
join in this space it's for every niche it can't't go viral, yada, yada, yada.
But, like,
it's the quality, bro. Leap can
sit here and do an AMA with, like,
Leap, do you remember that Frank
AMA you did?
We've done a few.
The first big one.
Yeah, that was a legendary
space. Exactly.
Like, imagine, like,
that's the quality of, like, information that came out of an actual, like, mouth, and you could sit there and listen.
Like, that isn't, like, that is a different level of quality.
That is a different level of information.
It's just different.
Like, you can't, I get the comparison, but you're comparing apples to oranges, man.
Like, it's just, there is value here here and you can't get it from tweets.
It's just different.
There's tons.
And I'll go to Bobby here in a moment, but I'll just say this.
There's tons of, look, there's plenty of value to be created in spaces.
And I think, and there is no leap and there is no even donate.gg.
There's nothing that I've been able to do in my life
that i can't say that spaces were the reason that that happened like of course hard work and i and
all i got lucky in a lot of ways and you know whatever but it was there's just no type of
community building like we're just like intimate relationship of like you're listening to the same
group of people night after night.
And it just becomes this like, dude, spaces.
And I hate to like reminisce about the old days because it's 2026 and like life is different and things change.
But I mean, it was a fucking like if something happened in crypto, you were damn sure that there was a space with a thousand concurrent people in there and everyone's talking about it and it's hot and there's so much going on.
But everybody moved.
Like even Threadguy used to do everyday spaces.
He got the morning slot and whatever.
He's on Twitch now.
Because you – it's not – yeah, audio content is just like – um it's in a weird spot i'm still bullish on it
and don't get me wrong if they came back and they were like you know we're actually gonna like put
some updates and and maybe there's some monetization or whatever um yeah i'd probably
like fully dive back into spaces but like until then it's just what is the um you know after like doing it for years and
years and years with like no changes it's like okay i gotta just kind of focus on something else
because my fear was they remove spaces and if that was my only thing and i didn't build something or
try to build something then i would just be shit out of luck like what would i do you know so sorry
go ahead bobby yeah x really only has three core products they have obviously
posting which is comprised of like the timeline for you page and replying right and then they
have dms which they just upgraded to be end and then encrypted and they have phone calls through
there too and then spaces obviously spaces being the least used out of those three but imagine if
you had a car where like
there was a knock in your engine and the air conditioner didn't work and it was summertime
and then your taillight was out like how would you prioritize that i can't see them focusing
too many f too much of their efforts or resources on spaces whenever you know elon's still complaining
about the algorithm that's probably the most core, from a functionality standpoint,
thing they have to get ironed out
before they start worrying about the less pressing issues.
And with them talking about X being the central financialization of the internet,
how X can be like the everything app with payments and everything integrated.
Obviously, they've been vocally on the record that they want to do that in the future.
Spaces will have its time. All of the things that you're saying, I think, will happen,
but it's not going to happen now. It might not happen this year just because it's not their
focus. The other thing is X just open sourced their algorithm. Don't know if you guys talked
about it, but I pinned to the top exactly how it works. And the whole like topic of the day thing, it's not in there anywhere.
I summarized it through Claude and then I read through it myself.
And there's nothing that your posts don't see, like when your post is evaluated based
on a score and that's determinant on how far it gets pushed on a or multiple for you pages.
There's nothing that takes a look like, okay, he's talking about this subject
and these are the subjects that are trending right now
or today or in the past few hours
and therefore it gets a higher ranking score.
So in terms of like an algorithm perspective,
there's nothing that is perpetuating
this topic of the day type thing.
The last thing I want to say is AI in the title of the space.
Does that stand for my co-host is an idiot?
Yeah, that was the...
I don't even know how we got the conversation.
Yo, Bobby, do you have an internal monologue?
Yeah, I have an internal monologue.
I said this joke on another
space but when bernard talks does anybody else imagine the south park the canadians
are you muting him no no that's just like you know it just does that when someone starts
feuding nonsense it just automatically does the canadian south park characters where half their head bobs up and down when they talk wait bobby so what else was um i know um robert was chatting a little bit about
it too but like what are the other big takeaways like is there anything we can kind of learn from
this like this seems like a huge deal right yeah people have been talking about how it feels like
you know whether a post is going to be a banger because like in the first 10-15 minutes you just
get that sense that it's going to be a banger and it's actually codified in the algorithm that
it it filters how much engagement your post is getting in the first five minutes if it passes
that it goes to the 15 minutes every five minutes up until half an hour when it starts getting
distributed through various for you pages so it shows it to a certain percentage of your followers. And then a small
sample of out of network participants, maybe people that don't follow you or aren't aligned
with the interests of your profile, it'll show to them. If it gets positive engagement on those
metrics, then it'll keep getting pushed further. But after half an hour, if your post is flopping,
there's almost no chance for it to ever come back because it's competing against newer posts that
have better velocity metrics that's what i guess they're calling it is like velocity metrics and
that starts from zero minutes to 30 minutes of your your post like being wait a report just
kills the tweet basically is what i'm yeah dude Yeah, dude, and you can look this up
in there. So like
another thing is it's like
replies add like 13 and a half points.
Likes add like half a point.
They don't add that full score
if the authorship score of the
account doing it isn't good.
So like if you're
botting your engagement and you get like a hundred
likes, if you buy like a hundred likes from a website, in theory that should give you 50 points.
But if the Grok actually analyzes what other posts those accounts are liking and everyone
who interacts with your post, also their authorship score is assessed at the time that they do it. And if their
score isn't that high, it's not a very trustworthy account. It's worth like a fraction of that.
So I don't know. It's really complicated, but it's completely all open source.
They're really like building like a breathing living organism with the algo.
They're really building a breathing, living organism with the algo.
There used to be over 200 manual rules.
So the engineers at X prior to Grok being the not only primary,
but really only source.
Because as far as anyone can tell,
there's no manual engineer rules in the algorithm anymore.
There used to be a bunch of them,
like show certain posts of this topic by smaller accounts in this range apparently i was reading through some of
them there used to be over 200 manual rules and those are all gone so it's all grok
dude the ai overlords are i mean that's in a way it's super impressive, and it also makes you feel like it's more fair to a certain degree.
But it's also pretty scary.
The only thing that's not fair and isn't, there's nothing in what they release that shows how this is determined or how it's applied.
Only how it's weighted is your restriction score.
So everyone's account on their,
I don't even know what they call it,
their authorship, authenticity,
or like your base score of your account.
There's a restriction score
and it goes from 0.1 all the way up to 100.
And 100 is basically your account's dead.
It can't be seen by anyone.
And so if your authorship score sucks,
your post isn't shown to anyone,
you're effectively shadow banned.
It doesn't show why
or how that's assessed,
but everyone on their account has a
restriction score, whether it's
0.1, like I said, from 0.1
to 100 where you're effectively killed.
That, and I was
really surprised by reporting too. I think Burden
said that. Someone reports your post or reports your reply like kiss it goodbye dude it completely nukes
the post if somebody reports it well i feel like now that if that's going to be known and i'm sure
people will make posts about that being a thing like isn't that going to just people just maliciously
report everything yeah i think reporting should be geofenced.
So like, obviously everyone knows the countries
where these bot farms are coming out of
and the mass reply bot, like the targeted bot attacks.
I think your content should only be reported
by whatever country you live in.
Whatever country your account was created in
or currently based in,
I think reports should only influence your account based
on i think they should only take effect if they've been reviewed like that's ridiculous um well maybe
if it was just like people that were within proxy of the like it would be like some way to tell that
the person reporting you would have some level of insight into like their report would be um like
have some merit to it right i i'd be surprised if all reports just count the same
and then anybody can just report any post and nuke it.
Well, yeah.
According to, and I asked some other people that looked at this
and ran it through whatever program they used to analyze it.
And as far as I can tell, there's nothing like that.
And that's a problem because cultures aren't congruent.
There's different things that you can say in
America, Australia, and China. Like the level of speech that's normal or allowed is very different
across cultures. So something you read in China might be illegal, where in America it's not only
legal but it's perfectly normalized, normal, or pushed. And it just the the rules can't be i just think the rules
have to change i've been um you know it's like so weird because and i get frustrated by the algo
all the time and i'll say like this is what i and this is what it's sounding like too the way that
it used to be was that and i'm look i have, I think K now I'm sure a lot of those
like inactive accounts or bought accounts or something, right? Like you never, a lot of your
followers are always just going to be like just noise and slop, but let's say like a third of
them are real or like half of them or something I would, I would hope. Um, and I've never bought
followers or anything, but like you see them come in every day like random accounts with zero followers following you so it's you know um but yeah like especially in
the early days it felt like i would do this and i would keep metrics of this i would do a space
and in like a six or seven hour space i would get like between 20 to 30 followers like real people
that come into the space they follow you whatever and eventually that kind of grew to like 50 people and if you had a really banger massive
space over 100 yeah you get 100 followers in a space and from nothing grew that to like
you know you mentioned um bird in that first like big frank am a that was the day that i went from
like five six thousand to over ten thousand because it was like the biggest space was like the biggest thing they
were you know d gods were destroying royalties it was like the whole thing um so you like fight for
these followers over years and years and you build it up with this idea that the more people that
follow you they will those people you know your content will get
shared to them and they have just like distribution network i feel like followers don't even matter
anymore at all like your post either goes viral or it doesn't like it hits or it doesn't and who
follows you or who doesn't like maybe there's some aspect of maybe bobby could provide some insight
that like if you have better followers maybe it like like pushes your stuff more. But I mean, I'll have a, I'll put a post out and unironically,
like a hundred percent serious. It'll get maybe a hundred.
It happened recently, like 150 views.
You're telling me I have 95,000 followers, been on this platform for years,
grinded my ass off for, you know, tens of thousands of hours.
And I'll put a post out and I'll get 150 views.
But then, you know, you get so frustrated with algo. And then you just like write and i'll get 150 views but then you know you get so
frustrated with algo and then you just like write some tweet or some post off the you know just
send it and it'll do like four or five hundred likes so what like was it really just that other
tweet i posted out was was bad is that really just the reason it could be i know that verified
followers matter very heavy um i've talked to somebody about this before and they were like, I guess I can just say it doesn't really matter. My account has 12.7k followers and I was going through my metrics the other day and it was like 3.7k are verified.
3.7 k are verified um i think that has something to do with like again like leap you and i
like a lot of the people that were here last cycle like listeners people in general like
they're not even here anymore yeah exactly like this is it's a whole different era of people and
obviously like a lot of them probably don't want to pay for it or whatever or just don't have their
accounts or whatever maybe are inactive and And it kind of sucks that that,
I mean, I had assumed that that doesn't really, you know, it does nothing now. It just doesn't
matter. Like those accounts really don't mean anything for your, because again, I mean, it
makes, it kind of makes sense because like how you don't really want to push that to them if
they're not active. But it's the same thing on like instagram like you look at like kim kardashian has like a hundred million followers like how many of those were from
you know 2015 you know and are just not active anymore so i i think it's a fair game right it's
like hyper competitive you always need a new influx of followers because the old ones are
leaving the platform or whatever that but i just do think that in general not even just here
followers do not matter as much as they used to um across most platforms and uh
you just have a banger or you don't i think it's because the distribution of tweets now
like the the old way was you had a lot if you had a lot of followers,
then you had a better chance for a lot of people to see your posts.
And if someone with 40,000 followers to your 90,000 reposted it,
oh, now their 40,000 followers get to see your posts.
And now it's really going to go far. Big retweets from your followers made the propensity for your tweets
to be seen a lot higher.
Now it's like percentage-based. So even someone with like 3,000 followers, if they get good
engagement within the first five minutes from their followers and a couple from outside that,
now it's getting pushed on for you pages of people from all different walks of communities and so the the users on Twitter right now are
all-time high and the users for every single community all-time high and X is
like the number one news app and you see every country different countries
popping up every day now there's so many users here they're they're like
strangling or throttling or bottlenecking each person. So only the really good posts are pushed to the For You page.
And I think it's coming at the expense of, you know,
you could really tweet anything two years ago or even last year.
And if you had a couple thousand followers, you know,
your followers would at least see it.
But now they're throttled unless they get good engagement
in the first couple minutes.
It's like posts are completely stratified now where they either really pop off or they get
completely killed yeah but i don't even think instagram's like that leap like like like okay
you have 95 followers how many what do you think that equates to in instagram followers
on twitter like 20 like 500k like 5 600k exactly like somebody with
5 600k you know who's accruited their followers over what like it was like what two or three
years ago when most of it happened whatever and they kind of don't really post a lot whatever
and they suddenly post something like a year later or something like it'll still get shown
to those people like it'll come up you don't have to be intelligent or witty to make a post on
instagram you just have to be like a void like basically and you will go viral like i i don't
know but it's not even about going viral it's like bro it's like it's showing up on the accounts on
on instagram they just post like like a sunset bikini picture and suddenly like, you know, there's like 40,000 likes.
But this person only has like three people following them.
It's like actually insane over there.
The way that they boost new users.
It's actually crazy. crazy i think um and this is just like my posting style outside of spaces was and i mean i have i have think of i have 5 000 tweets
ever in in five years i think five or six thousand and i'm sure many of those are just replies right
i have 5k posts yeah i'm sure half of those are just replies to people posting on my stuff if i
would like repost gm or something so like i've like really the grand scheme of things not posted
very much it's pretty low um my style of posting was very much like i'd post like one or two words
or like three words max and that was the style um and it honestly like i would it would
get like 500 likes like if i look back to post from like 2023 and i just scroll through that
it's like every post i was just it was insane numbers um now it's not like that anymore and
you know for the better right like maybe yeah i don't know. Maybe like because there is so much more accounts like Bobby said
and everything's more competitive, like that's just not going to fly anymore.
But it does suck that, you know, it doesn't get showed to your audience
in the same way that it did before.
And I forget Leap that like there's a lot of pseudo-anonymous people
that just made new accounts right they may have
following you followed you like last year but like this year they have a like entirely different
like perspective and they're trying to you know chase the trenches or whatever and you're not like
a trench demon that's like posting 5k like fucking tickers on the timeline so they're not
going to follow you just because
of that yeah it's it's definitely different i but by the way i think you know i'm maybe coming
at it from a negative perspective i mean i think for the better you know it does push you to expand
your content it does push you to like just like how can i now on the flip side it does reward
sensationalism and things you know but that's just the nature of news and content in general um but i've still had i've had plenty of posts do well over the last
couple months like thousands of likes on stuff or whatever but it's always the posts that like
obviously it was going to do well um like i think i did i posted one you know on the one year and
it was thanksgiving or something or something about my dad and like it did like you know 5 000 10 000 likes that's not the reason i posted it of course
like i for me it was like more like a venting sort of like emotional therapeutic thing to just kind
of reflect on on that and you know doing it publicly i've always just tried to live my life
online but um but on the flip side if you like i'll like write like a long form post about
you know the future of on-chain charity or whatever and i'll get like 20 likes
so you know maybe it's just the nature of people not wanting to to engage with that type of content
um but uh dude this is the thing as well is like i donM you here in there as well, and I barely see your post dude like I don't know what it is
it's like
Yeah, I don't know what needs to be fixed with that. I don't know
maybe you add like a
Did they add like a favorite button or something that like, you know, no matter what you are
I know that posting it's I'm just not posting enough
That's the reality is like I'm not competitive enough in it and i want to be like i posted yesterday and it did like 400 some likes
and did decent views so um you just the reality is like i don't want to complain about it and
that's really because like that as much as the algo will like fuck you sometimes it will give
you glory other times like you hit the right post the right way at the right time and the scope
of what that can do for you one single post can change your life and it didn't used to be that
way like the scale now is crazy like this dan guy of course he was big before this but his article
did damn near 200 million views that is that's like every person in the united states damn near you know saw that
um so the algo given the algo takes and i gotta you just take the good with the bad and just
think okay the game is harder now but if you win and you score it's like it's like yeah it's it's
the upside is so much bigger yeah it did used to be a lot different for sure even me dude like i've
been here what like the day i started this account is when i started crypto so june 2022 and ever
since then i've been pretty active whatever and i only have like 6.6k posts like i'm the same where
i just haven't posted a bunch ever um most of my following has been accrued through spaces uh but even i've been
trying to do more and i've been trying to like study and learn and do whatever dude but it's
like i don't know man it's you just gotta post dude yeah like yeah that's that's the thing is
like i um reply going to man fuck like i know info5 just died but no no no no no no what do you mean no no no
i i think i i don't think reply guy does anything to be honest in my opinion i disagree dude
i disagree i think how are you gonna disagree with your elder burden no i'll tell you why
because he's telling you what's up bro no no no no, no, no. I agree with his previous statement.
Like, I'm not going against his statement with, like, the, like, I think 100% posting matters way more, 100%.
But I think reply guying as well is another metric of, like, kind of growing your network a little bit with people you want to kind of just, you know, reply with.
And then they see it and stuff like that.
I do think that
it does matter to an extent for sure i know like again everyone says you know reply guy is like the
key to bear beer so you know it doesn't matter for monetization stuff like that but i still do
think there is a a positive in interacting with accounts that uh you know kind of like have an
audience or like you know you look up to or whatever, or kind of just, I think there is a positive.
What it does is it puts those people that you're replying to in your network.
Like they count in your network.
And so they're more likely to see your posts in the future.
And the one thing that everyone's talking about with the algo being open
sourced is that if you reply to a post and it's not big yet and it flops like the post
you reply to is flopping if someone with over like 50 000 followers replies to it they uh the people
that follow them are also more likely to see your content exactly because they replied to some
because you replied to something that they also replied to. So it does matter.
Somewhat.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Probably somewhat.
I just,
I don't know.
I'm like,
I don't know.
Yeah.
It probably does matter.
And,
and I think what you said is important,
like interacting with people and reciprocating,
you know,
engagement or support is I've always been really bad at that. And it's just more so because i get a lot of anxiety around posting anything but um yeah it's obviously very
important i just i think there's just a lot more upside on what can i post like just 100 percent
intentional posts do the what the best though like if you really like think about like what
you're posting and you post with intention like you're gonna hit the best though like if you really like think about like what you're posting and
you post with intention like you're gonna hit the correct algorithms like do you guys ever use
the the premium tools that are there like in the premium plus yeah dude the analytics is huge
yeah you you should actually do that and then then they have like in the creator studio, they actually have an inspiration widget or whatever you want to call it, like function over there.
Right.
And you can go through there and you can see how other people's tweets are structured and you can actually get Croc to reference them and write.
Like I will never steal anyone's like significant other, but I will definitely steal their tweets.
I promise you that.
You know, I've actually been hearing good things about the tools.
I'll need to check them out just to give you like some references.
Then we'll jump to Emily.
So like this space.
Okay.
So it has, we have 280 concurrent now.
Shout out to you guys.
And then, you know, at one point we had like 400. And I would say based on just like how these numbers usually work,
and there's no way to tell because the space did get bought it.
So the overall listeners are screwed.
But I would say it's probably within the 4,000 to 5,000 unique listeners
that tuned in throughout it.
Maybe 4,000.
And hours, right? Like we've been doing this for almost five hours now in in about six seven minutes it'll be five hours 6.6 000 views that's how many impressions
this space has done 6.6 000 now which is like i dude, you could post anything and do more than 6,000 impressions.
On the flip side, the intensity of those impressions, I think, are way higher.
I think there's a lot more... You just build a stronger connection, but it's just different.
Dude, I don't think it calculates that, which is annoying.
No, no, it definitely doesn't calculate how much those impressions are worth. It's just different. Dude, I don't think it calculates that, which is annoying.
No, no, it definitely doesn't calculate how much those impressions are worth.
And I would say that somebody listening to a space for six hours should be worth more than somebody who just clicks like on a post.
That being said, there's not really a strong way to to index that at least not that I could think of. And, um, yeah, it's also a reason why it's like, why do spaces when you can just post
and do 50 times more engagement, um, and impressions. Um, and then also like building
that strong audience or that strong connection with people doesn't really have that much like payout because it's not like they'll see your content if you post it anyway.
So that's like another reason I think spaces are just kind of like in that aspect cooked and why like just even video content can slam, dude.
Video content can go crazy on X.
Like I would say that's more so even than just normal posts.
Look at Nick Shirley, dude.
I mean, that is one of the most viral anybody's ever been.
But that's the thing.
The algo takes, but the algo will fucking change your life and give you everything.
So you got to just,
just learn to work with it. Go ahead, Emily. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.
Yeah. Um, about like, uh, Instagram. I mean, I know in Instagram and it's, it's been this way
for like, as long as I've been on it. I mean, there's all these like engagement groups and I
mean, I know there's engagement groups on Twitter, but I don't think they work the same. Like the
engagement groups on Instagram are pretty hardcore,
especially like I've been in a couple that are just like,
I mean,
people really do engage.
Like,
it's not like on here where it's kind of like,
everybody's like,
okay,
whatever.
But there it's like,
I don't know.
It's definitely like a follow train and that works a lot.
I don't know.
Have you guys experienced that versus Twitter and group chats and stuff like that?
Or no?
I don't really know what you mean.
With the follow trains?
Well, it's not like a follow train.
It's like – so there's – on Instagram, there's like these like network groups and then you get like people invite you in them.
And it's basically like bigger accounts or whatever and they're
all posting in there and then you go and you like and your comment and like everybody does that like
back and forth and back and forth and it changes your algorithm to like bigger accounts and like
then you get more people to see your stuff and whatnot. So I think that's like a huge thing over
there and you have to get invited into them and stuff. And, um, but I don't see that too much
over here or maybe I'm just not part of them, but I was wondering what you guys thought of that.
There used to be like things I have seen actually spaces where it'll be like,
if you join this, you'll get a thousand followers and you know, you go in there and it's,
I won't say too much about it, but there's like definitely stuff like that.
But I think like,
honestly,
I just think like the highest upside is just,
actually,
I wish Bobby was,
I was going to ask him like,
is there a penalty on posting too much that can you,
cause I know Nikita was like post,
he posted something about like,
you said yes, Robert, what, what what's uh how does that work uh the the new algorithm um notices
it has a diversity score and uh they try to keep one user from taking over somebody's speed
and being all robertble, for instance.
So if I post, even if I'm posting really amazing things, it says, well, I'm only going to distribute one of those things to give you your reach.
And then if you keep posting too much, it cuts down your reach.
And is there at least there's like a specific number of posts or is it just kind of?
Let's say one person follows you and five other people.
It'll try to pull an equal number of posts from each of the
five people. So just because you post five posts doesn't mean you're going to be seen by that one
person. One post or two posts might be seen by that one person. So one thing, and again, this is just like,
it's a mixture of being on here for three years, gut feeling, and kind of just like,
I don't know, intuition. I've never just posted back to back to back. I usually wait an hour,
two or three at least, like an hour at least after I post my first one but also that i don't i'm sure
everyone's or most people have run into this problem where they post something maybe they
didn't look at it or they missed like you know they misspelled something so they delete it and
they repost it every single time i do that i think i'm fucking the engagement up every time i'm like
i just fucked something up in the background by doing that 100%.
I don't know if that's in the metrics,
but I'd love to know if that is a thing or not.
What about like editing posts?
Does that fuck your algorithm too?
I'm scared to add.
Yeah, I never edit those.
I feel like that's, I don't know.
It doesn't seem to hurt them,
but it does get rid of your, let's say you post something and then a minute later you edit and three people comment on it.
Those comments won't be shown on the new post.
What about sharing – so this is super conspiratorial.
What about sharing your own post, like where you click the arrow and copy link and then like send it to people? Sometimes I feel like if I do that, you know, is there anything about that in there?
I don't know. In the past, it has affected your reach, sometimes positively, often negatively.
If you send it to a thousand people and nobody likes it and nobody engages on it, it sort of learns.
Well, I send it off platform. I'll copy the link and then I'm sending it to people through text or something.
Yeah, God how how deeply they
they can study that because i do feel like sometimes if i and this is going to sound
crazy and this is just who knows if it's true or not sometimes i feel like if i look at my post
after i post it it does worse and like if i'm like i don't know if that's like a dude i thought i was the only one
i'm not even i swear to god and if i like refresh my own page like multiple times to see like
engagement come in or whatever i genuinely feel like it does worse and the best post that i have
is i post it and i close my phone and i walk away i i have no idea why that's the case but it feels like it knows i'm looking at it and then
it gets apply sometimes sometimes i post and i just go reply to other people so it thinks my
account's really active i don't know i don't even know if i'm doing it right i just do it
fuck but don't you have to like reply on the comments in the first like 10 and wasn't that
bobby was saying something like that you have to reply on people that are commenting to you so that that boosts your engagement in the first five minutes?
Yeah, I was looking at this.
I was, like, reading it when he put it up there.
There's some weird – so this point system is really weird.
Like, I don't know what it's out of or how it exactly works.
But the – it says reply engaged by author is plus 75.
It's plus 75 points, and it says a reply is 13.5,
a profile click is 12, a repost is 1, a like is 0.5,
and then a report is negative 369 in brackets instant death.
They should have just made it 69.
Is that who I think it is, dude?
I'm here to show a token.
I'm here to show.
Please don't.
I think it's interesting.
Every time I think we're going to wrap up for five hours into this thing,
every time I think we're going to wrap up for five hours into this thing, every time I think we're going to wrap up,
you know,
something happens.
bro,
you don't even tell me you're doing your first space in like five months.
You don't even let me show my,
my top pick of the week.
by the way,
Geoff,
or Jeff,
I hope I'm pronouncing that right.
I really,
it's Jeff.
It's definitely Jeff.
I want to jump to Jeff in a moment.
Dude, just give me a fucking break.
It's two o'clock in the morning.
Yeah, I want to jump to you in a moment here
because we spent the first three hours of the space
talking about Ralph and Gas
and just everything that's happened over the past,
you know how crazy it's been the past week um but justin it's good to see you we did actually talk about uh bond earlier in the space
as well um bro and you still didn't even text me dog i dude i've been locked in i don't know i'm
sorry i this is the first space i've done in in over two, almost two months now since November. And yeah, we're just locked in.
I know.
We've been talking about this space
for like a long time
and you don't even think to text me.
You only call me when you need something.
Brother, just log on to the app.
I'm teasing you.
I'm teasing you.
It's at the top of the screen.
I love you.
I'm teasing you.
You know he doesn't have notifications on for you now.
We were actually just... Actually, I should do that. Maybe I don't have notifications on for you. I'm teasing you. You know he doesn't have notifications on for you now. We were actually just...
Actually, I should do that.
Maybe I don't have notifications on for you.
No, they're on.
All posts.
No, we were chatting about the Algo
and they just made it open source tonight.
So there's just a ton of insight about how it works and honestly a bit scary.
But somebody just DM me about this and it kind of makes sense.
It is kind of decentralized.
Like, yeah, they can like mess with it and stuff.
And it's a constant evolving, like living organism of its own.
But the more that it's open and people just kind of know how it works is, I don't know.
I think this is like a big move.
And, you know, it provides a lot more clarity.
What time?
Like when you say the algo is open source,
you mean specifically X?
Yeah, like an hour ago.
Oh, wow.
So we barely, so I imagine like tomorrow midday,
people are going to have some serious thoughts.
I mean, they probably do already.
Yeah, they do.
Yeah.
I mean, because there's so many different – just from what I'm reading on the timeline and what we've chatted about here, there's so many different mechanisms that how they score your posts.
And there's 50 – within the first minute, how many engagements it gets and the type of engagements and how that gets pushed to other people.
It's a tremendously sophisticated thing.
And I still think that it's,
it's actually completely wrong.
And I think that we've overcomplicated distribution and you should just see
the shit from the people that you follow in time linear order.
I genuinely think that that's probably better for,
or I shouldn't say that's every app,
but I think that if there was an app
that gave you time linear order
and only the people you follow,
then you can tune out all the fucking garbage slop
about whatever political mayhem is happening
that sends you down a rabbit hole on ChatGPT
asking if things are factually correct.
I know we've all fucking been there. I don't want want to do that anymore i just want to see what my friends
are up to honestly facebook v1 bring it back so just i'll give you some alpha that was passed
down to me but there's uh there's lists here so you can create your own list and you can add as
many people as you want you can add all the
accounts you want i know about this okay exactly so what do you so that that's literally like you
can put all your friends in there and it does and it goes by you know most recent so i think um and
this is like a summary of like in a good way because i wanted to jump to jeff here but the
algo gives and the algo takes i do think think it's, we actually talked about this, Justin, where it does kind of suck that you build up all these followers
and your content doesn't get shown to them.
It's a much different game now, but at the same time, you can have zero followers and
have the opportunity to go massively viral on your first post, more or less, right?
I think the point is is the upside
huh the upside sorry i keep going no i just think the upside is so much bigger and more achievable
um but it definitely does not punish but nerf certain aspects of having a big account you know account already. Well, KMoney showed
me a token that's going down.
So, what do you think?
You think I should dump it?
Look, I don't know.
It's the first shitcoin
that I bought in like a year.
It's 100% tomato.
How do you
know about tomato? It is definitely tomato.
Wait, wait, wait.
It's not going down that much.
No, it's not.
I'll put my house on the line.
It's tomato.
Wait, do you believe in tomato?
You believe in it?
I do.
Imagine this
freaking dope-ass
tomato farm one day.
And it's like,
instead of migrants
coming to America
to work, they're coming to educate
themselves and expand
humanity's...
That part of it? I just thought
the tomato was kind of interesting, and I
YOLO'd a shit ton of money at it.
So it better go up. That's all I'm saying.
So I think it's a good segue.
So for people who may not know, the soul of the tomato is basically DeVito's project,
and basically Claude is taking care of the plant,
and the fees from the token are the mechanism
that funds the compute and keeps it
going. I'm sure there's more nuance to it than that.
D-Y-O-R
Yeah, it's pretty dope.
It's actually the only cool thing. I have no idea
if it's actually happening, but if the
marketing
around it is true, I think it's quite
interesting and funny.
But don't buy it.
No, no.
So, Justin, there's been a huge wave
over the past week or two
around all the AI coins.
I mean, it's been like...
Well, I was going to jump over to Jeff,
but Jeff is actually the founder
of the biggest one,
which was Ralph Wiggum.
So we don't get the opportunity to ask him about it,
but that's okay.
The biggest one, as in one of the other ones
that has since been struggling?
Or is it still good?
I mean, it went to, I think, 50 mil or something.
I think it might be like 15 or 20 mil now
but there's been a lot that's been
going on in crypto and
the AI stuff
has just been like the biggest thing that's
kind of been the thing going there's like plenty
of these tokens the bags
if you're familiar with the launchpad
was like leading this and yeah there's
just like a ton going on
let me see if I can
Message Jeff because I wanted to really want to hear from
Well, you guys just kept fucking yapping. No, that was my fault I didn't realize Jeff was that important and you mispronounced his name so I couldn't have otherwise assumed that yeah, that's
That's my bad
Like if you pronounce his name correctly
Like that dude I Just look it's been it's been a long If you pronounce his name correctly... Have you never seen Jeff spell like that, dude?
I just... Look, it's been a long day.
Let's bring back Jeff.
Jeff, I want to hear about the new AI meta.
I want to know about it.
Alright, I'll message him.
We haven't had anything exciting in a long time.
I want something fresh.
There's been a lot going on.
I think we just bring back PFPs.
If there's ever a time, it's
now. We come up with a new PFP
collection. We give it real
utility. We include a nice
secondary royalty.
The art is going to be
insane. This is the
time. You're not even calling them NFPs anymore.
You're just calling them PFPs?
No, no. It's NFTs
and we're going to fucking make them tomatoes, dude.
We're going to make a 10k
tomato PFP collection
and all the royalties are going to go
toward buying tomato on
Sol. That's what we should do.
Not financial advice.
We're definitely not.
By the way, if you're in the audience
and you haven't heard me on a space before,
I just give a bunch of shit.
I don't actually mean anything I'm saying.
Unless it's about Bitcoin going up,
because then I mean it.
But otherwise, I don't mean it.
I'm trying to see if Jeff wants to come back.
Meanwhile, while Leap is
beckoning
founder Jeff,
the name of which he cannot pronounce,
how is everybody?
What's up?
Great, Justin.
Long time to see how have you been?
I'm good.
I'm working.
How was your DJ gig that you just did?
Oh, Emily, thank you for listening.
It was great.
I want to build a venue.
I want to build a warehouse
with crazy light structures
that aren't necessarily that expensive but very effective.
The problem is when I'm working on my company,
I can't do these things at the same time.
So I have a lot of things I want to do,
but Cloud Code can't quite do them all for me just yet.
When the robot can start building me my venue,
that's when I can do many things at the same time.
But for now, I can't.
Oh, well, Leap's still talking.
I'm trying to beckon Jeff.
So what else is new?
Let's see.
I think that markets are underpriced and no one knows how.
Well, I guess maybe some of the laws that we wanted to pass didn't, you know, things didn't happen the way we exactly wanted them to happen.
Maybe that's why the market's selling off a little bit.
I don't know, but I'm so optimistic.
I think in 2030, all this shit's going to be ripping.
Yeah, Bitcoin just fell below 91,000.
I think it has something to do with the whole Greenland thing, right?
Aren't we supposed to take over that country or something?
What's going on?
I really hope we don't do that, man.
I don't know why we're fucking with the Greenlands.
My girlfriend's Danish.
She's mad.
Denmark owns Greenland.
What are we doing over there?
Why do we care?
It's an energy race at this point.
We're just going after everything and anything that can provide energy
because the next wave of the future is the country with the most energy
is going to be the country that wins, right?
Then we need nuclear research.
I'm hearing a lot of different things.
One thing I heard was that there's minerals.
The other one is that they don't want other countries like Russia and China to position themselves there.
So they want to take it before they can.
The other one I heard...
Yeah, that's some bullshit.
It's been there for so fucking long.
Why the fuck now?
The other one I heard was that Trump looked at a map and thinks it's that big and wants to go over there and claim it
I mean that checks out because he's fucking
oh my god lately man
he makes me look bad is all I'm
saying
did you guys see that video of him
mispronouncing countries
it's like a video that just has
just him pronouncing countries. It's like a video that just has just him
pronouncing countries wrong.
A 15 minute video of just doing it
over and over again. It's actually hilarious.
We need
the next president to be like
he's got to have the energy
of Mom Donnie and then
he's got to have
he's got to be like 40.
Has run a business. Had an exit. crypto friendly, let everybody get married, don't fuck with abortion, make the market go up.
Can we just have that guy?
It's not that hard, guys.
On another note, guys, if you're in here right now, do us a huge favor.
Bottom right hand corner, purple button, like, comment, comment retweet it is the best way to support the space and if you would at jeff um at the boy
jesse come back my goat at jeff um but yeah make sure to like comment retweet it is the best way
to uh support the space no it's it's okay i'm if um you know it's like 2 a.m i appreciate it it's okay. It's like 2 a.m. I appreciate it. It's like 2 a.m. though. We've been doing this for like five or six hours. I sent him a message. If he's willing to come chat tomorrow, we can do a space and chat with him too. Just get some of the insight on some of this stuff.
This has been fun.
I really appreciate you guys.
Everybody, thank you for coming.
I don't know how I used to do these things for like seven hours.
I'm five hours deep, and I'm exhausted.
I drank a bunch of caffeine throughout this, too.
Okay, if he responds, you have to come back tomorrow.
You have to.
No, no, no.
I mean, we'll try to do something anyway.
Well, we should talk about Bond tomorrow, baby.
Yeah, we can.
No, we talked about it earlier.
We talked about it earlier.
No, but I wasn't here.
I would have said I will bond $100 to anybody who makes an account.
Done.
100%. I will bond $100 to...
How many people are in here?
It's like $20,000, $20,000, $30,000.
We could do it.
That's a big commitment.
No, it's not.
I'll do it. I'm not fucking around. We could do it. Well, that's a big commitment. No, it's not. I'll do it.
I'm not fucking around.
We will do it.
If you create a bond account, I will bond $100 to you. You just have to remind me.
Well, you heard the man.
I'm going to sleep soon.
You heard the man. Join bond.
I think that's the...
Is it join bond? I can't. I don't even know how to
pin something to the space anymore. Yeah, they changed it literally like today or tomorrow, but it joined bond? I can't, I don't even know how to pin something to the space anymore.
Yeah.
They, they changed it literally like today or tomorrow, but it's in his bio.
So go check it out.
Um, but yeah, this has been cool guys.
You're the best.
Um, if you want to do me a big favor, um, if you, you know, speaking of, of things in
the bio, if you guys just want to go follow.
Donate.gg.
Yep.
Donate.gg we have some cool stuff coming um and some cool you know partnerships and things
like that happening um hard at work and we got some you know doing our best so all the support
is is always good um but yeah hopefully i'll see you guys tomorrow and if not burden thank
you so much to all the speakers thank you so much chat soon
Speaker
Beaver 🦁
from
somaliscan
