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ALTCOIN SEASON IS HERE | CRYPTO BILLS | POWELL OUT? | BITCOIN TOPPED?
Recorded: July 17, 2025 Duration: 2:40:13Space Recording
Short Summary
The crypto space is witnessing a transformative phase with Bitcoin positioned for significant growth, bolstered by favorable market conditions and regulatory clarity. The recent passage of the Genius and anti-CBDC Acts signals a strategic shift towards stablecoin regulation, paving the way for increased institutional investment and a potential altcoin resurgence.
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. Music Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The Thank you. Music so
now everybody read the bottom right hand corner and request to come up while we get started here
just give us two seconds guys and we will be starting just sending the link out to a few people likewise who were waiting for the space but just give us two seconds appreciate every person
joining in and listening do retweet reshare the space let we let everyone know we're live this
is kind of like our first crypto space so we'll get onto it in two seconds. Just got to send the links out.
Just give us two secs.
Yeah, in the meantime, guys, do retweet, reshare the space.
I think it's going to be a fire space.
It's going to be on finance.
It's going to be on crypto.
It's going to link some aspects of politics in all in one and extremely relevant so just give us two seconds while we get ready all right okay um just waiting for a few people to come as well.
They did say they were going to come,
so hopefully they turn up as well.
I think we have a good space planned.
We've got good experts on a wide range of issues related to finance and crypto and various other things,
so we'll get onto that in two seconds.
Okay. okay probably going to be a lot of breaking news a lot of different things guys this style of this
space is going to be completely different today yeah yeah definitely loads of things coming
through just bring up whoever you want because you probably know all the relevant people
in terms of that regard.
I know who I've invited.
So I'll bring them up as soon as they come.
Right, guys.
Appreciate you guys joining in.
Appreciate you guys listening.
We're here for a golden space.
It's on crypto.
It's on finance.
We're going to talk all things crypto,
all things finance.
Things are flying.
The market is pumping.
Or is it? Or is it or is it
not this is what we're going to discuss this is what we're going to talk about on the space i'm
going to have a we're going to have a huge number of people on here people who know this or people
who've been in the game for a very long time people who are experts in finance let me bring
gary up as well gary's gonna come he's gonna give his expertise on the matter we've got um
we've got um simon coming in he's got his expertise. We've got, what's his name,
Ennis coming, who's got an expertise in oil and various other things. We've got Joe coming in,
who's got expert in finance as well. So we've got a lot of experts in finance coming in. We've got
a lot of experts in crypto, a lot of experts in Bitcoin coming in. We've got some DGENs who are
going to be joining as well later and during the
space as well. So I think we're going to have a golden space. What we're going to talk about is,
obviously, we saw in the last week or so, crypto was flying, Bitcoin was flying. The question is,
has Bitcoin topped out? All coins are flying the last day or two, last 24 hours, last 30 hours.
We're going to hear from people in that regard as well, what their thoughts are in terms of,
has Bitcoin topped out?
Is everyone moving to crypto?
Sorry, everyone moving to altcoins.
Then we know the three crypto bills that have basically been spoken about in Congress.
One of them has obviously passed the Senate, gone back to the Congress.
And we're going to speak about those as well.
I think it's interesting because very much linked to crypto.
And then about Jerome those as well. I think it's going to, it's interesting because very much linked to crypto. And then about Jerome Powell as well. We had, we had a statement from Trump
initially claiming or made it seem like Jerome Powell may be out. But then we had the alternative,
which was that, no, Donald Trump isn't going to fire Jerome Powell and he's going to likely stay
in place. And, you know, generally speaking to get some, and we'll speak about this.
We've got experts coming in about that as well.
But generally speaking, to remove the Fed and the head of Fed and to replace him normally needs congressional approval.
But we're going to have experts on here speaking about that.
Maybe there's certain ways it could be done without it.
We're going to speak about the three crypto bills, the Clarity Act.
You've got the Genius Act. And you've got the Anti-CBDC Act.
So we're going to speak about all this.
I just want to welcome Gary onto the stage.
Gary, thanks.
Let me bring Bruce up as well.
He's a great guy.
He knows his stuff.
Gary, I appreciate you joining us.
It's an honor to have you on the space.
I know this is your expertise.
Well, if I have any any expertise it's very limited
a couple feels buddy so uh yeah i'm i'm enjoying the space i think uh bitcoin is probably at its
point where it is probably the safest entry point for Bitcoin in its entire history, risk-adjusted.
Based on what we know, the regulations that we know, the most bullish of analysts were, you know,
prognosticating two years ago. That's been greatly exceeded, greatest ETF in its history.
And I think, Salomon, it's really just becoming much, much easier. And it's becoming,
once Wall Street took a hold of this, the marketing and promotion
of crypto, in particular in Bitcoin, I think is probably 100x in its ability to communicate to
the user, the investor, and the normal man. So once Wall Street, I mean, one of the big reasons I really plowed into
Bitcoin so heavily was the decentralized liability, the liability of having a decentralized activity
where there is no centralized message. There's no marketing, there's no proper promotion.
When I saw that that industry had gotten to $600 billion, it's at $2.5 trillion now.
When I saw it get to half a trillion plus, I was like, my God, they got here with the
worst marketing in the history of mankind.
There's something here.
And that's where we're at right now.
That's why I call it the most risk-adjusted,
cheapest entry point for a four to eight-year hold
that I've ever seen in my entire life.
All in there.
Yeah, and I've got a number of questions for you
in that regard.
Definitely, I want to hear from you.
I got my boy Joe in.
He was like a G when it comes to stuff.
We'll talk about that in a second as well.
But books, thanks for co-hosting space with me.
From what I know know you're like an
expert in the uh all coin meme coin uh market you've been in the game for a very long time
appreciate co-hosting jump in give us your thoughts intro the space and let's get it on
and so first and foremost man it's a it's an absolute pleasure uh i've definitely been in space for for a very long
time since like 2014-15 like really starting to understand the space obviously i heard the term
bitcoin prior to that i knew what bitcoin was but i didn't really understand it uh as far as
meme coins and and things like that go i would, for about the last five, six, maybe seven years, I've been messing with the altcoin and memecoin field.
But a lot of what Gary said kind of made me pivot towards the macro for the last two years.
I've been heavy in the trading world when it comes to spot futures and all that stuff.
I think that's the way to go, especially during a time like this
when banks and everybody's just throwing money out of it, right?
Like we're finally seeing
what we once thought would never happen come to life.
So it's a pleasure hosting with you, man.
I definitely want to see some people step up,
come to the plate,
want to hear some new people speak.
I would appreciate it if everyone engaged
on the bottom right,
shared this space and requested to come up. Even if you don't want to speak,
request to come up. It helps us out. Yeah, we are the space of the people. So,
of course, we've got experts on here. We're going to speak to them. I want to welcome Bruce onto
the stage as well. Colombo, Public, Joe, thank you guys for joining. I know Bruce from a number
of other political spaces. I appreciate you coming as well.
And yeah, do request.
We're going to try and bring as many people in as possible.
Definitely want to hear from a number of people.
That being said, let's get into it.
Let's get it in.
Let's get it on.
I want to speak to Gary first and then we'll get into the,
we'll get into all these various aspects of it.
We're going to combine finance, crypto, politics, all in one,
make it really enjoyable, entertaining and knowledgeable space. Kelly Kelly, thank you for joining as well. You do
great co-hosting as well on Spacer. So I appreciate you coming on the space. Gary,
question to you. And my boy Simon is going to come. I know what his answer is already before
he comes. Much love to Simon. But same question to you. Like you're saying that Bitcoin is the
place to be in terms of holding.
You should hold it.
And it's a four year, eight year long term hold.
We get that.
But what about for people who don't have four years, don't have eight years, you know, maybe can only go year to year.
Is Bitcoin really the long term hold?
I mean, I'm hearing that there is a possibility that I mean, not possibility.
Some commentators are arguing that the Bitcoin's topped out for this cycle.
What's your thoughts on that and whether even people who are going for a one-year hole should consider it?
I know your four-year and eight-year thing makes a lot of sense,
but just from that perspective, what are your thoughts?
Well, different questions.
Let's address the one-year hole.
I think if you can only invest for one year, I'm not sure you're an investor.
Maybe you want to do some short-term trading.
Short-term trading is for experts.
You have more experts in this industry.
There's a reason JP Morgan doesn't let a crude oil trader trade net gas or power.
It's because they've tried that shit.
And the crude oil trader was like, hey, I know commodities.
I can handle power.
And they get crushed.
So why does JP Morgan and all the big trading houses make people stay in their boxes?
Because each one of these investment verticals require expertise. And I just see a
whole bunch of guys trying to jump on the altcoin train, the four-year cycle to, you know, accelerate
time. That's what most people are doing when they can't look at a four-year investment. If you invest
with my brother in his real estate fund, you're in for 10 years. If you invest with private equity, it's at least seven. If you build your own company, it's 11.
If you buy a house, you're there as long as you can't sell it because they're hard to liquidate.
So for me, I think if you're not looking at a four-year investment, you're not really investing.
You're betting.
You're making a short-term bet.
I've never made my money that way, Solomon said.
I've only made my money by putting my head down and going, hey, look, I can invest for
four to eight years.
I just keep investing just like I'm building a company, just like what you're doing.
I'm underpaid for four or five years.
And then if my trade's right, I wake up one day and I'm wealthier than I probably would
have deserved to be.
If, you know, I just got to, this is like building a business.
And everyone I know wants to own their own business.
Bitcoin is that vehicle.
If you really want to own your own business without needing HR and lawyers and legal documents.
It's a really franchise. Think of Bitcoin as a franchise. You buy a Popeye's fried chicken,
it costs you $2 million. And you got to still maintain it, manage it, and pay the big boys
their royalty. This is exactly like that, but it's $118,000 to buy the franchise.
That makes a lot of sense. And I appreciate you basically given the differentiation between
trading and investing and anything you're saying, which is short term, I'm guessing you're trying
to say anything that's lower than four years in your mind is kind of more like trading as opposed to investing. Yeah. I mean, like a one
year, I think one year now you're having to introduce that you not only are right on price,
but everything you understand about the markets regarding the timing, you're also doing that,
which by the way, timing is much. You should ask everybody that comes up here, what's harder,
price or timing?
And timing will always be the answer. 100%. That makes a lot of sense, Gary. Gary,
you have mentioned about Bitcoin being a long-term hold. Many people are saying that the Bitcoin in this specific cycle may have topped out. When it comes to altcoins, do you see that more of a trading?
Is that more like trading from your perspective or your view?
Or again, is that something that, again, you view as a long-term investment?
Well, I do not believe that Bitcoin has topped out.
Okay, I'd love for you to bring some peeps up here
and let them walk me through how that's happening
because I'll sell them insurance on the downside for like a
thousand years right now.
So if anybody's scared of getting a hundred thousand dollar Bitcoin handed to
them,
I will sell you an insurance policy that you will not hold Bitcoin below a
hundred grand.
Like right now I'll sell that fucking thing to you all day long.
And there'll be other people
that will do that so i do not believe and if you believe bitcoin is top why would you be moving
into the alt markets trying to replicate what the prior three cycles have done the prior three
cycles is bitcoin cools off the alts take off, explode, Bitcoin then follows the move, and then everything starts
to roll over. I just don't think I'm smart enough to jump into XRP, which has done very,
very well this week. ADA, all these guys have done extremely well. But really, am I going to
really dump tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars of Bitcoin,
convert all that shit to XRP, and then ride XRP up, and at 2 a.m. in the morning,
then move another $100 million out of XRP and back into Bitcoin, and I'm just doing everything
perfectly. Dude, I have introduced so much risk to my life. For what? And I have
enough friends, as you do, in this space that have been around 15 years, Simon, a bunch of these guys,
the gentleman that's hosting with you. I don't know three guys that have made $100 million
trading altcoins. I haven't yet to meet them. Please introduce them, okay? I'll let them manage some of my money.
I'm not saying there's not opportunities,
but I have learned to focus.
Focus has made me so much money, it's ridiculous.
And it's made me a better expert in a field.
So I'll end with that.
That's the best way I can answer it, man.
That is golden.
Simon, thanks for joining us.
I just met your twin, Gary Cardone. I didn't realize he's full on on your wavelength when it comes to Bitcoin.
I mean, I'm not sure if you heard what he said there, Simon, but he was basically explaining how Bitcoin is the place to be.
And it is a more he doesn't see it as an investment. So he sees it as an investment as opposed to trading.
I know you're a Bitcoin maxi, Simon. You've been in the game for a very long time uh probably you want to add to that or what's your
thoughts yeah look um once you um get in the game of um investing like once you go beyond like the
the the crazy phase that we all start in where you're just trying to triple, quadruple your money
really quickly, which is essentially the same as sitting in a casino,
rolling the dice and gambling. That's the meme coin world.
And you then get into the investing game. And so the highest risk investment you can make is starting your own business. 90%
within the first year, you'll lose all your money and everything you invested into that business.
But if you make it past one year, you have a 90% chance that you'll lose all your money after three
years. And then if you make it past three years um you're actually likely to either build
a cash cow or create the highest returning investment that you'll ever make uh but you
probably lose um 15 years of your life in order to try and achieve it um and it took me uh from
creating a company the same year bitcoin was launched, Bank to the Future,
to the point where I could just sit back and have something that would just spit off cash flow.
It took me like 12 years to get to that point.
And the reason for that is because I wouldn't take any VC money and we decided to do it organic and we created a company to support the
industry so that's like that's the ultimate long-term investing along that journey, in our company, we invested in about 100 different companies in Bitcoin.
And when I look at some of those companies, for example, we invested in Circle, who started as an app to buy Bitcoin and ended up the second largest stablecoin in the world.
And in between that, there was about five different iterations of what that business is.
Then, for example, Bitfinex had to go through a hack,
potentially getting the whole company shut down, creating Tether,
ended up the first largest stable coin, and then one of the largest bitcoin exchanges
that ended up creating all the shitcoin casinos and everything in between even a company like
abro or something started off as a peer-to-peer uber app for bitcoin in the philippines and ended
up like a borrow against your bitcoin business uh the end of it. Even something like a token,
like invested in the Ethereum ICO, it went into being proof of work, creating the second largest
network. The Ethereum foundation almost went bust when the price of Bitcoin crashed. They almost
didn't launch the technology. Then they ended up with rolling back the chain, becoming when they launched,
or one of the co-founders launched a Ethereum VC fund and then split that into Ethereum Classic
and Ethereum. Then they pivoted to proof of stake. Now I couldn't even tell you the mechanism for
what the money supply is in Ethereum. And I don't even know what the vision of the network is.
They ended up doing NFTs, they ended up doing smart contracts, they ended up doing ICOs,
all sorts of stuff. The point is that during that whole journey, there was about a million
different iterations, a million things that can go wrong, and all sorts of human error in the process.
And then we had to go through all these different cycles.
We went through Bitcoin being forked off into other coins, alternative coins,
ICO, boom and bust, NFTs, all these different things.
And every single year, like a new iteration, a new flavor of a pump and dump came from
the industry.
And to stay on top of it, initially you could stay on top of it, but then it reached the
point where you just to even understand, say, the ecosystem in Solana, you almost have to
be a full-time expert with all the different parts of the
factions of the community just to figure out what the hell's going on there, because suddenly
there's an outage, and then there's a foundation, and they're setting up the validators, and you're
like, oh, right, I thought this was a decentralized network. Or you end up in something like Terra
Luna, where Do Kwon says this is decentralized. And then you
realize it was just a centralized central bank Ponzi scheme propped up by a token. And very few
people could figure out what the mechanism behind the whole thing that they called was decentralized.
So all of that to say is that there's only been one consistent throughout the whole thing.
And Bruce has been through this whole journey as well.
I guess the latest is a bunch of companies going public
and putting Bitcoin on their balance sheet
and then using equity capital markets and debt capital markets.
And then you go through a bankruptcy like I did with Celsius.
Then you realize, holy shit, in um a zionist entity that actually got hacked by
an idf israeli operation and all i thought i was doing was supporting like the industry
and suddenly i'm bloody uh backing a genocidal regime with a bunch of vcs with the types of
people that if i had known who i'd end up co-investing with,
I wouldn't in my wildest dreams have ever made the investment in the first place.
But that's what happens when you end up in these non-Bitcoin things.
And Bitcoin just came along and everybody that goes through the journey ends up in the same place.
And everyone thinks that they're going to outsmart it.
Everybody thinks that they found something cheaper, faster, better. But in the end,
what investing really is, is a reliable way of beating Wall Street, a reliable way of beating
the Federal Reserve consistently on a long term basis. And that's what Bitcoin provides.
If you go over it and you
buy more Bitcoin this month than the previous month, and you do that for four years, you've
literally found the holy grail. You beat Ray Dalio, you beat Warren Buffett, you beat the real estate
market, you beat the private equity market, you beat gold, you built silver. Maybe, just maybe, you didn't beat Nvidia, but I guarantee
you, of all the 20,000 stocks that you could have bought, there was probably only one that you
didn't outperform. And anyway, in the end of it, you will outperform it. And so what I think Gary's
trying to say, and sorry it's such a long way of saying it, but you know me, that in the end, Bitcoin is the holy grail that takes away all the complications from your life.
And knowing that you can reliably boycott the Federal Reserve, beat the Federal Reserve, take away all the human risk and take away all the complications.
and take away all the complications,
you can then invest your life in doing way more meaningful things
than staring at the screen,
trying to figure out what Charles Hoskinson and Vitalik Buterin are doing next.
First of all, Simon, we do know you.
And we have much love for you.
You are the OG in the game of crypto.
I mean, Bitcoin, actually not just Bitcoin.
You've been basically one of the serial investors
on a lot of Bitcoin exchanges
that have now become mainstream
or basically becoming the places to go
and including Ethereum.
So yeah, I know your history really well.
And you're a G.
I've got to bring my boy Joe into the conversation.
Listen, Joe, there's no one on Joe's, in my view, like Joe is a guy who knows a lot about a lot of things.
When me and him were chatting, like over the last few months, we've been chatting a lot about, you know, the way the market's going and so on and so forth.
And Joe, when we have these conversations on point, Joe, you obviously don't believe Bitcoin is topped out because you have a different view.
You've obviously we've discussed this at length offline and in various other places.
And my G's always on point.
Let me put it that way.
But Joe, give us your thoughts on that.
And I know you're not specifically focused just on Bitcoin.
Unlike Simon, I think you do have a bit of variety in your kind of in the coins that you basically put money in.
I know you even dabble in the meme coins
big pepe investor as well or whatever it may be but go ahead give us your thoughts
yeah look there's there's things i do for fun and there's things i do to actually make money right
like pepe i'm like okay there might be something here and i remember you and and everyone else
was making fun of me for a while.
And it was just because I saw energy there, like Trump token.
I knew that was going to be horrible, but I knew a lot of people who are stupid are just going to go buy this token.
So I got in early and then I left.
It's just understanding what people will do.
But when it comes to Bitcoin and the reason why Sullyman is saying
I'm on point is, in the beginning of May, he was asking me, what do I think it's going to do? I go,
look, buy it around June 13th, and it's probably going to pump until the middle of July. If it
goes above 125, I think the top will be early. Hopefully, it doesn't get to 125, but it gets
close and then it pulls back a bit
because then it means we have a longer bull run.
And that's what happened.
And I've done that several times with Sully.
And that's why he's like,
oh, you know, Joe is on point.
And it's only because,
if you guys understand,
it's only because...
I think you have to give yourself more credit.
Like even a minute,
like I was like,
oh, I think this is going to happen.
Joe was like, listen,
it's going to go up on this day. And it literally on that specific day, it did.
So yeah, Joe, I started to continue there. Yeah. So, so you guys understand, I never say the day,
but I say within three days of a day. Right. And why, why do I do that? And, and, and why anyone
can do that? Cause it's nothing special. There's one asset that is 100%, well, it's actually 92% correlated to Bitcoin.
And that's M2 money supply.
If you watch M2 money supply, 70 days later, that's what Bitcoin is going to do.
It used to be six months back in the day.
back in the day. Today, it's 70 days. So there's still room to run. I still think we go to around
Today, it's 70 days.
So there's still room to run.
130, a little bit above, and then we pull back again to around this price. But then once we break
and stay above for over three days above the 130, I think we're going to at least 280.
And that's just based on M2 money supply. That's all it is. And I don't trade it that often.
And yes, I'm lucky.
I know I'm probably giving Gary headaches by saying what I'm saying, but I'm in a jurisdiction
where I don't get taxed for buying and selling Bitcoin.
Oh, yeah, me too.
Yeah, so it's okay for me.
If you're an American, buy and hold.
If you're in any jurisdiction where you're getting taxed for your crypto gains, don't
do what I do.
And I don't even do it often.
I trade Bitcoin within a four-year cycle.
I trade it five, six times tops, right, where people are doing it like three times a week and sometimes more.
And the only reason why I get involved with the other things, but mind you, I get involved in the other things with 10% of my portfolio, right?
other things. But mind you, I get involved in the other things with 10% of my portfolio.
When I do Bitcoin, it's not with a lot. When I do Pepe, sorry, when I do Pepe, it's not with a lot.
And I do it only because I've lost a lot of money in the first six years. I understand where capital
rotation is going today. And I understand that narrative is everything. And most of these
projects have no, like you can't look at this
like you look at a stock because most of these companies don't deliver on what they promise.
And trust me, when I tell you I've lost a lot, Simon's here, right? I lost 1500 Bitcoin to
Josh Garza. Do you remember Josh Garza, Simon? PayCoin. Yep, PayCoin, right? So there was a ton of bumps in the road along the way.
Pitfalls. I didn't get into that. I forget what that one exchange is that now pay people back
in the early days, but I did get into a thing that they were going to set up cloud miners all
over the world and you didn't have to mine it yourself. You could just pay a thing and
he was going to stabilize, put a floor on the price based on the assets he had and blah blah blah there was so
many people back then just give the audience um so a scammer pay coin um if if you lost 1500 to uh uh uh gaza um gaza um at today's price that's 180 million dollars peeps 180 yeah
it wasn't back then but yeah today or today hurts when you look back it hurts a lot
uh but i you know i caught up i i kept but after that is when i said, okay, I'm buying Bitcoin and everything else is a certain percentage of my portfolio.
I used to play with 30% of my portfolio.
Today, I only play with 10 because I'm older and I need to think of the future.
I do wholeheartedly, if you hear anything, you could take a gamble.
You could take a risk.
The truth is, is Bitcoin has returned about 35% a year.
In 10 years from now, by 2035, I don't think there's any Bitcoin on here that doesn't think
it's going to be a million dollar token. And if you can 10x in 10 years, you're ahead of everyone
else. There isn't a hedge fund manager in the world that's going to beat that number.
And you're going to be really, really well off. And that's what I suggest 99.9% of people do. Don't try to trade it. Don't try
to look at the price. I know sometimes it's going to hurt for a year and a half while it's going
down every cycle, but eventually we won't be in a cycle. I personally still think we are in a cycle, but a lot of people don't.
I need to see.
So how long do you think this cycle is?
What is your, I guess, definition or explanation of a cycle when it comes to what we're going through right now?
Well, if you look at it, I use two indicators.
I use M2 money supply and I use power law.
But my power law is not what Giovanni uses at all.
I just use it to understand where the middle point is.
As soon as we break the middle point, which right now is at 132, as soon as we break that middle point, we typically take off like a rocket ship and it only lasts for four months.
typically take off like a rocket ship and it only lasts for four months. So if the cycle ends in
November, we're talking around August, we're at 132, it breaks that point. And then it just takes
off and goes up to 300 or 280. That's what I'm expecting. Right. And that's typically what
happens. Do you feel like we're in a four year cycle right now or 10? We're still, if you look at it, we always hit the top two years after.
We hit the halving is Q1 two years prior to Q4 of two years after.
So Q4 is typically where the top comes in.
And two years prior is when the halving happens.
And that's what it's been every cycle.
This cycle feels long, but it's not.
Everyone's like, oh, this cycle is going on forever.
No, this is what every cycle's done, except you felt it more.
Don't forget, we came from around 28,000.
Wait, where was the having?
The having was?
April of 24.
Yeah, the having was at 60,000, right?
We went down to 40,000, so it doesn't feel like much because it's only doubled yet, right?
Whereas the other halving was at, because I have them all on the chart here, was at 8,200.
And we went up quicker, but we double topped, right?
Which is not normal, right?
We've never had a double top before.
And I really think that has to do
because of all the capital that was injected into the market
or else we wouldn't have had a double top.
And it probably would have taken longer.
Like that first big pump where we got to like 60,000,
that happened because we printed 75% of all money in existence
in a matter of a year and then distributed it.
I mean, that's going to have a huge effect.
Are you talking about January of 24?
I'm talking about 2021 when we did the stimulus for COVID.
That created an early top.
If you look at the last top on the last cycle, we still haven't passed that much time yet in terms of how long it's been.
So to me, the reason I even asked you that was 2021-2022 pump would have really ever stopped
if it wasn't for the FTX and Terra Luna situation, the Celsius stuff that happened. There were a lot
of like really bad black swans that occurred. And then this bull feels like it was a recovery from
that that started in January of 23. And january of 2024 etfs started getting approved obviously
the halving happened in april and then we hit the top in uh in november i want to say of that year
only to see at the beginning of 25 trump getting elected markets rallying again m2 money supply
starting to go m2 money supply has been going crazy this entire year.
What triggers that is money printing and spending and everything that's going on, right?
What triggers the M2 money supply is money.
So it's definitely, it feels like a 10-year super cycle right now. I gave that theory very early on when they did the ETF.
And I said, look, when the gold ETF came out, it put gold into a 10-year upswing, right?
And that's possible, but then that's going to be almost only Bitcoin that goes up, right?
But if you look at the last cycle, the last cycle ended in 546 days, more or less, and we're at 450 days right now, right?
So we haven't reached the top. The last cycle was longer than this one was,
and I'll find out in November. If in November we don't have a big pullback, then we're in a
10-year cycle, which I really hope we are. But I'm going to keep an eye out and wait and see.
but I'm going to keep an eye out and wait and see.
It's possible if more money keeps going into the ETF,
just like what happened with gold when the gold ETF came out,
then yeah, we could possibly be in a 10-year cycle,
but it's not going to rotate into alts.
It's not.
It's just going to, not the way it has in the past.
So my thing, I agree.
I agree.
And if it does rotate into alts i think it's going to be
new alts this time around rather than the alts everyone's expecting to start going crazy that's
my perspective if it even happens um but i'm kind of on the same page as you here when it comes to
to topping out i know i've seen a bunch of people say oh bitcoin top the market top though this is
the top or we're close to a top i think people are out of their mind because yeah you've got the m2 money
supply to pay attention to and then you've got all these rate cuts and in the past rate cuts haven't
meant too much but now it's almost it's almost feeling like they're perfectly timing these rate
cuts with the end of the year and if we do see a two or three month
in a row rate cuts, and then you start seeing some all ETF start getting approved, I think we're
finally going to feel that inflow of people coming into the space. This is the first bull cycle
where it almost seems fake, right? It's all banks. It's all ETF money. I'm not feeling it on Twitter that there's all new people coming in.
Like, it's the same people that were here last cycle.
Do we start feeling that at the end of the year?
Because we got a little taste of it in January when Trump won.
And with the Trump token, we saw fucking Twitter go crazy with new accounts,
new crypto people, people coming up on spaces and trying to talk.
Never seen before.
I got to tell you, just to interrupt, I think there's a lot of new money coming here. crypto people people coming up on spaces and trying to talk never soon before i gotta tell
you just interrupt i think there's a lot of new money coming here they may not be coming through
twitter but i think they may be going in etfs and these super alts which are the uh strategic
bitcoin reserve i mean i personally know there's definitely new money coming in there big money
the prices show us that.
Yeah, that's a fact, man.
I'm not taking that away.
But this is the first time where we're not feeling it on social media like we did in the past.
No, it does not feel like there's a lot of hubris here.
And I was very aware of that when I first came in.
I was watching FTX throw million-dollar parties.
And none of that's here.
None of that's here now.
In fact, people are talking about safeguarding their returns this time
more than they ever have before, which I think this is a great conversation.
And by the way, Joe, you're not blowing my mind.
I listened to you for a minute, and I'm like, oh, the guy's offshore.
If I was offshore, I would be trading this thing like
a machine, but I would hire experts and I'd take part of my portfolio and just go, hey,
we're just going to swing for the fence with 10%, but we're never, ever going to put these two
buckets of investments together. Yeah. And Gary, to just to also help with this argument,
I was a market maker on Wall Street for one of the largest trading firms in the country,
which back then was Knight Ritter, which I don't think is around anymore. I think they got gobbled
up. So, I mean, I have a lot of experience trading. I, you know, I use call inputs at times like
I'm not doing like normal stuff. and that's why i don't suggest
people trade it a lot to be honest like go have fun trade other stuff but don't like bitcoin
you know that's not what you should be doing it with um it's too risky you're gonna miss a lot of
moves uh you're gonna make bad calls it's gonna run away from you then you're gonna think it's
too expensive you're gonna wait and then it doesn't come back down and you're going to make bad calls it's going to run away from you then you're going to think it's too expensive you're going to wait and then it doesn't come back down and you're like shit i just fucked
myself right and you don't i don't want to see anyone in that position to be honest let me let
me make sure everyone understands that by the way um so joe and i i think i think i know where joe
lives and we both live in tax neutral jurisdictions where we switch from one asset to another that doesn't
create a taxable event in our jurisdiction whereas if you live in the US or the UK or most of the
world then when you go from Ethereum to a meme coin or Bitcoin to Solana in a Solana to a meme coin, officially, not tax advice,
you've created a taxable event
and they're investing in surveillance technology
to make sure.
And if you ever bought from an exchange,
those exchanges are being subpoenaed
in order to hand over all that data.
So when you start trading,
you end up in a tax nightmare um that you have to factor
into the equation um and i can't give you any advice or anything like that but that's where
that's why i think gary basically said because you live offshore i'd be trading but if i lived in
um america uk or anywhere like that it creates a a really difficult situation
sam are you sure about that because i spoke to a few uh crypto accountants in the uk
and their claim was slightly different so are you definitely sure it's the case because obviously
you're in the you were in the uk as well their claim was they would be wrong dude like i they're
very true bro no one if you're in a tax regime and you think you're going to out-trade the volatility against tax, you're literally going to have to lie to the tax man to keep your profits.
There's no way in the UK.
Now, you can do gambling online.
You can do spread betting, which you can't do.
So they'll just do spread betting in the UK.
Well, even from what I understand of the big, beautiful bill,
Trump's beautiful bill, even gambling now is going to be taxable, right?
Or some aspects of it.
I'm not looking at the details, but from what I know, that's the case.
Right, Gary?
I think taxes, I think gambling is already taxed.
Yeah, there was something in there that like people that professionally gamble,
I didn't follow it because I don't do it,
but there was something in there that professional gamblers were getting all upset about.
I'm not sure what it was.
Yeah, it was because, what do you call it again?
Mark Cuban, Mark Cuban got a lot of gamblers on his side
to speak out against the big, beautiful bill because it was going to be taxable but just um on what can i make up can i
give you guys an example okay yeah i just want to a lot of people say how are you so sure because i
saw one of the comment how are you so sure it's going to be a million dollar token in uh 2035
and here's the thing. If you understand money,
and if you understand M2 money supply, and Simon will do a better job than me,
if you just pull up historical chart of M2, America can't survive without printing more money.
That is the problem with when we went to fiat. And that's why since the 70s, prices keep going up.
when we went to fiat. And that's why since the 70s, prices keep going up. So you would have
better off stocking bread than stocking dollars because bread held its value, dollars did not.
Today, $1 worth 7 cents of what it was in the 1970s. So that happens because America needs
to print. If it does not print, it can't be the global reserve currency.
If it's not the global reserve currency,
it doesn't have the dominance that America no longer has dominance that it has.
And people's salaries are not going to go up.
Home prices are not going to go up.
Many things are going to happen and the system breaks.
So you have to keep printing.
That's why Elon keeps saying more population, more population.
That will help slow that cycle down.
But the fact that the West has less babies is not a good thing, and that just puts more pressure on having to print.
So if you know how the government works and it needs to print, then yes, I am positive that Bitcoin will be at a million dollars in 2035.
And that's why.
And Simon does a much better job than me.
No, that's a good job.
But, Joe, have you got some bread from 1970?
No, I don't think anyone will buy it.
Joe's only got bread, which has got Pepe emblem or Pepe logos on.
Then he's got that type of bread for sure.
Immutable.
Immutable and durable.
Exactly, exactly.
Just go to McDonald's.
Well, he's not Donald Trump trump he's you know i mean yeah i don't like mcdonald's you haven't met
mcdonald's bun from 1970 i think it's still good joe loves his perry perry chicken it is
i i do like my nandos exactly um so just a quick question to one of you three guys or anybody else to jump in in that regard
is when you mention about
sorry you mention about the fact that there's not a lot
not enough retail coming in at the moment
and things were completely different in early 2025
do you think that the Trump coin
which caused a massive exit liquidity event
caused a lot of retail to leave.
And if you do think that, what's going to cause them to come back in?
Yes, it definitely caused a lot of people to leave.
Retail comes in, guys, when there's hype.
Retail comes in when there's a lot of noise being made, when there's news everywhere,
and when you're at or close to a top in my opinion so with the trump
token i feel like it pumped super hard it went to you know 70 billion some say it wasn't really 70
billion whatever it is it went to 70 billion market cap and everybody came over everyone
started buying if you look at those higher uh higher price points of the token and you look at volume, volume was craziest during that time.
So you had all these people come in and then it was just all down from there.
People get salty and they leave. Same thing with Shiba. Same thing with Dogecoin.
Same thing with Solana, Bitcoin, ETH and all the alts in the past.
But for the macro, obviously that's changed because Bitcoin's
just been insane lately with all this ETF stuff. How do we get these people to come back? It's just
going to be more hype. When Bitcoin goes to 130, 140K, there's always going to be a mass influx
of people that comes in and buys. And I really, really think that at the end of this year, if we
do see the market go absolutely insane because of rate cuts and everything else that's coming.
I mean, we're talking about removing capital gains tax from crypto.
We're talking about more ETFs coming.
I feel like a lot of people are going to come into this space and do the same thing, make the same mistakes they made in the past.
And it's like it's just like a beginner thing in this space.
I feel like I've been through it and probably a lot of y'all have too i'm just wondering
i'm wondering brooks if it's um because i agree with you but if we need another uh tool or
something that's interesting to come into you know obviously this is the meme coin cycle we
had meme coins there for a bit um last cycle we had nfts before that we had defy we had
something to come and for people to use the chains for something that was interesting and hypey
right and it feels like right now there's nothing we're just retreading existing stuff uh whether
that's polymarket um or meme coins or whatever like there isn't the new
um for bumboard and want to come on trade
on chain and actually trade it's just to gary's point it's it feels like it's the wall street
you know etf cycle so they may be buying alt coins but they're buying it on coinbase
uh or through their 401k so it's it's just a very different cycle in that respect. It's definitely different.
The way I look at it with meme coins, meme coins are the casino, right?
The casino is always open at the end of the day.
Like if you're going to look for meme coins and you're looking for that crowd of people,
you're going to find it.
You're going to find them.
However, right now it's the summer.
I think it's a lot more dead and slow.
But once the money's flowing, once people are flowing through the space and new people are coming in and there's more hype,
I think meme coins are going to have their day again.
Let me ask you a question.
What's your benchmark?
When you're out of the meme coin market, where do you park your money?
I park my money where there's opportunity.
So you're always in risk score but do you have like a stock?
What's your benchmark?
What are you trying to have?
No, I'm not always in risk.
I'm not always in risk.
Am I almost full crypto?
You could say it.
I mean, I do deal with property on the side,
but as far as like crypto goes, right now I'm in the macro.
But what are you measuring
what are you measuring your performance again so you're trying to outperform bitcoin solana
ethereum what's your what's your benchmark i'm i'm i'm playing with bitcoin solana and ethereum
i'm not really i'm not really a meme coin guy like it like it's what do you what do you especially
this year you're just you're just always looking to have a portfolio allocation,
or are you always looking to put most of your money into a bet?
How do you play it?
So mostly, I mean, my money is right now in Bitcoin, ETH, and Solana.
I'm taking advantage of the opportunity, right?
We've got this pump going on.
My eye's always on the M2 money supply and all that stuff.
I do feel like we're going to see a bunch of rate cuts happen this year, if not one
very large one and maybe two tiny ones.
So I'm trying to take advantage of that.
But let's just say I wasn't.
And this was your typical summer.
I'd probably be stabled out and just chilling you're waiting being patient your value to you is is you're holding it in a
stable coin i'm just trying to think not right now if the if the situation wasn't what it is now
i would probably be okay so basically you're you're basically at every moment, you're always looking for the best place to park your money.
And every day you're looking at opportunity to figure out the exact, the right percentage between Bitcoin and Solana and ETH.
And whether you should be in stables because you think the market's crashing or like what.
Because you think the market's crashing or like what?
Because what I'm trying to get at is most people measure their success in dollars and they end up in the stock market,
not realizing that when you price the stock market in gold, you're actually down.
If you price real estate in gold, you're actually down.
And if you price everything in Bitcoin, you're down on virtually everything.
And if you price everything in Bitcoin, you're down on virtually everything, unless you're in the highest end speculation of the market and you happen to end up in Fartcoin or something like that, depending on where you are.
So what I'm trying to get for the audience is everyone needs a benchmark.
And for me, the ultimate benchmark is Bitcoin. And then you realize once you're measuring in Bitcoin, trying to outperform
Bitcoin is a very, very sophisticated task. But most people never think about it because they
get confused by dollars and dollars go down in value and dollars is an illusion. So you've got
an illusion so you got to get your mind out of fiat currency to get this right
to get your mind out of fiat currency to get this right.
i i get 100 what you're saying i mean it makes sense definitely makes sense i just want to
welcome ian onto the stage ian thanks for joining us and kelly kelly i want to go to you as well
how you doing absolutely thanks for having me here man like i. I won't say I'm relatively new. Well, maybe I'm
relatively new to this whole meme coin space. It's been a few months, but I'm all in on it now.
So it's great to be able to have these conversations with like-minded people who are,
I would say, bullish about the super cycle. This does look like a super cycle here.
So thanks for having me.
No, thanks for coming. And I just want to welcome Bruce as well. But just before I go to Bruce, I know Kelly. Kelly's had his hand up for a while. I know he wants to jump in on the
Bitcoin conversation. Do jump in, Kelly, and give us your thoughts. Yeah, no, thanks for having me.
Great space, great panel. Always good to see Simon and Joa, Bruce, Gary, Adam, everybody up here,
and of course, Ian, Books, Solomani. Everybody, if you are in the room, do some love to the
room, share it out to your friends, put some comments down below, get active, follow these
panelists up here.
But no, I have some thoughts on Bitcoin and the alts.
The fact that anybody debates it, whether or not there's a top right now, seems like
I don't even know.
I don't want to say feels ignorant.
It just it doesn't make sense when you zoom out and look
at the data of where we're at comparatively with previous cycles. When you look at,
Joe pointed out, the M2 money supply or the global liquidity as well. I shared a few charts
up in the top, up there in the nest with some of the things I've been looking at. One of them is
being the front running, as Joe pointed out, the M2,
but also the global liquidity pumping up the way it has,
has always been a front runner to a liquidity expansion.
And also, of course, the price action moving
to the upside on Bitcoin,
and then also then into the alts.
But I think it's important
because there's been a lot of Bitcoin discussions
I've been in lately. And I do know just from the different content I do on my live streams and
different spaces that I'm a part of, that there is a, unfortunately, I'll say a majority of the
people in the across crypto Twitter are more highly proportioned or ratioed into altcoins.
Thus, we've seen, you know, sort of an incredible
bull market in Bitcoin and crypto Twitters felt like we've been in a bear market for
a year and a half. And it's unfortunate because I think there's some misinformation that's gone
around in the way people are using analysis that has sort of broken their spirits because I don't
think it's effective analysis. And one of those being looking at previous cycles of altcoins,
how they've capital rotation with Bitcoin,
and then realizing that, okay, well in 2017,
you know, I've been in the crypto markets for about 10 years,
and I was there when the ICO craze happened.
And I also remember that in order to get into anything
other than Bitcoin, you had to buy Bitcoin first and
then transact that into whatever other coin. And then it was Bitcoin and Ethereum and so on and so
forth. It's sort of the dynamic of how the capitals flowed at one point was gated in that way and has
changed over time to where this cycle, we obviously saw a major pumpage from Solana from $8 all the way up to $295.
And that was also not, I won't say fully driven by, but especially helped along, ushered along by
the token deployer, you know, what we saw with PumpFun. Now, when we're looking at previous
cycles and where we're at now, I think we all get distracted in crypto uh especially if you've been in crypto
longer than three months uh i mean every day feels like it's six weeks especially with the
news cycle we've had especially considering where we were a year ago to today it's a different
landscape and so to simon's point and i forget somebody else said it as well i think you might
have said it sulaiman uh that there are no real experts broadly on crypto
because the space changes so dramatically
about every three months
in a way where it's almost like a different landscape.
And so when you have where our debate is,
is retail here?
Is it good? Is it bad?
I mean, I'm super excited
from an investments point of view
that we haven't seen a major influx of retail.
That's one of the reasons why I don't think we're anywhere near the top.
Now, on the flip side of that, to Gary's point, I think he's hit the nail right on the head.
There are a lot of new retail participants that have entered, except they've entered through the other capital channels that have that were otherwise never available prior to January 11th of last year. And that's the ETFs. And then now we have the Bitcoin treasuries. So
we've seen I don't want to say an obfuscation of the capital that's flowed in. But it's
also a different type of player of somebody coming into crypto through an ETF versus somebody
coming into the crypto ecosystem
that is actively trading. We have the long term minded people coming in through these other
capital channels that are a little more cultured on finance and how to manage what they're doing
with investments. But then we have not had the retail come into crypto. That is, I don't want
to say the DGEN class, but the retail that's coming in for those gains.
And unfortunately, the headlines over the past many years have brought degens into the space thinking, oh, this guy got Dogecoin at this price and he was a millionaire three months later.
That is a very, very, very overwhelmingly rare case for people.
And I hope people realize that that is not the way you make money in this space.
There will be some winners, just like the lottery, but you don't buy a lottery ticket expecting to win.
You say, OK, well, maybe this week, maybe not.
But that's a dollar. A lottery ticket is a dollar.
Unfortunately, people jump into meme coins or altcoins.
They say, well, this guy on YouTube told me this is the next thing.
And they put in $10,000 or $20,000 of their life savings or maybe the entire amount.
And then it goes to nothing.
Now, the last thing I'll say is this.
Are we going to have an alt season?
I absolutely think we're going to.
However, much like I said about the historical trends, I don't think this time is going to
be like the last times.
I think because of the three bills that are going through right now, potentially getting passed,
it changes in nature, I think, of how this market's going to move. Because yes, Bitcoin is now
substantiated and has been substantiated, but now it's getting that stamp of approval from the
biggest financial institutions on earth. Now we also have legislation moving forward with things like the
Genius Act and the Clarity Act that changes the nature of what is a blue chip in crypto. At this
point, is there legislation that's positively affecting it that takes you into not an asymmetric
opportunity, but closer to an asymmetric opportunity that never existed before? And in this case,
let's talk about stable coins. Stable coins are primarily within the Ethereum ecosystem.
And so now to me, it seems like Ethereum is gonna start
to get that institutional nod
and other substantial capital flow
because of that being an infrastructure layer
that global payments and global finance
are now going to be integrating into.
So will we get an all season? Is it starting? Yes and yes.
But I don't think it's going to be you throw a dart at the board like you did back in 2018, 2017,
and everything's moving. I think now it's like, OK, let's look at it like a business venture.
Where would corporate and institutional money look and see substantial evidence that this is something
that has a great forward looking outlook if this was a standalone business. And so I think you got to
kind of pick here and there's going to be some flyers, but God dang, I'm so excited to be here
and shout out to everybody in the room. Appreciate your energy, Kelly. It is golden.
Book, sorry, jump in and then I want to go to Bruce. Yeah. We need to remember, man, like a lot of alts from 2021, 2022, 2018.
They really were like almost came out to be vaporware, right?
Where they really haven't done much since.
Since their initial run or their tops or whatever they hit.
I almost feel like there have definitely been alts that have been running for the last year.
And, you know, are they going to start going crazy and catching up to Bitcoin?
Maybe, but that'll be our alt season.
where we see Bitcoin declining and, you know, alts that all these people are so dead set and sold on,
hanging on for dear life, just waiting for them to come back and run.
I just don't, it's, I feel like times have changed.
No, I agree with you. I think the 2017 season, if you look at the top 20 coins into 2018,
and to where we're at now, the large majority of those
are gone. And the truth is, even the ones now that are in the top 100, that's going to be
entirely different in five years. So if you're, quote unquote, I'll take the word investing,
if you're parking money or trying to play in the markets in altcoins, realize that we already went
through the promise season. That a 2017 everybody was you could make
money just on the hey here's our idea about what we're deploying and it's it's gotten to the point
now where it's to put up or shut up market do you have data that shows that you're profitable do you
have data that shows that you're being integrated the use case the adoption the users the active
addresses and how are you partnering into how you plugging into or displacing other parts of the market that is going to show that it's going to be a sizable, sizable investment thesis because you have projected of into that blue chip category. And even Chainlink,
which I really like, we still need to put up or shut up moment where they actually show the fees
getting deployed like they're supposed to in November. We also see Ondo, which is a very
promising project. But let's see also all of the competitors now. We have Kraken also listings,
tradable stocks. We also see injective showing tradable stocks.
So is on dough, is it just a promise?
What's going to actually be absorbed by the market
and actually take the dominant market share?
It's a very risky bet in anything outside of Bitcoin,
whereas Bitcoin is asymmetric.
Everything else, you're fighting to see
which one's going to take in that herd mentality
like Simon was discussing earlier,
and Joe, I think as well. But I mean, it's an exciting market. You just need to not throw all
your outside of Bitcoin. Don't throw all your eggs in this altcoin that somebody told you about
because it's got a promising thesis. You got to diversify if you're outside of Bitcoin,
but you need to primarily be weighted in Bitcoin for sure. But we got a lot higher to go for sure.
Appreciate that, Kelly.
Bruce, I want to bring you in.
I just want, I need to push back a little bit.
I know we've got a lot of Bitcoin maxis on this space.
It's all about the Bitcoin.
I know you're a Bitcoin, Bitcoiner as well.
But so, I mean, do jump in with your thoughts about this.
I appreciate you being on this space,
but also look, I'm not in Bitcoin.
I'm not just in Bitcoin.
I've got ETH.
I'd say I'm equally in Bitcoin. I'm not just in Bitcoin. I've got ETH. I'd say I'm
equally in ETH, XRP, Sol. I mean, look, Bitcoin is good. But then at the same time, A, do you not
think that one needs to diversify? B, the returns are higher on these other altcoins? And C, so
three questions for you, actually. And the third question is, when you look at um you know everyone's kind of saying there is possibly a four-year cycle possibly a um a 10-year cycle whatever the cycle is what we
do know is generally speaking the prices go down or and so yes you could be like a rich guy and
invest over five years 10 years like my boy gary cardone is like listen you need to invest for a
long time don't see it as trading but the average person the general isn't going to keep their money away for four
years to get super rich do you want to get super rich this is a great conversation if you want to
get super rich there's one way to do it you in two ways you inherit it or you can concentrate
your bet like you cannot show me any story of any human being
that made tremendous wealth that diversified.
Okay, diversification is usually spoken of
by people that manage 401ks
and they try to convince you
that you don't know what you're doing.
But when you see the most perfect,
I'm assuming you like women, okay? If you just meet the most perfect if i'm assuming you like women okay if you just meet
the most perfect woman on the planet are you gonna really go shit let me go look let me go
saturday night and go check out make sure she is perfect or do you go all in on her
right you go all in man and the great wealth that is getting ready to be made are people that are extremely concentrated on a high.
Thesis that has an extremely probable outcome to it.
And that for me, four years. How old are you, man?
You know, most people, four years, they'll be 39 years old.
four years, they'll be 39 years old or eight years, 43, dude, that's young to have like
undisputable life-changing wealth. So you can then do all of these rooms and you're not worried
about the price of XRP or whatever going down and having to trade it. It's just like, I've been
doing this my whole life, man. Like I, you know, you say, Hey, I'm rich and I can sit on it. What if I wasn't rich?
What if all my money that you guys think I'm worth is all locked up elsewhere? And I just
took every piece of fucking money I could possibly scrabble together, which is probably a lot,
and I deployed it all. I'm 66 years old, man. Deployed every drop of it into this trade.
And that's because this is a great trade for my family.
It's a great trade for me.
I don't have to get on a fucking airplane every day anymore unless I want to.
Right?
I get to do what I want to do.
And, like, that's a life.
I come to these spaces to help people
have a life like this. I literally worked 40 years of my life and I can outwork almost any
human being I know, except Trump, but I don't want to. I'd rather hang out, read a book,
do some art. I've done three pieces of art this morning, dude, and probably made a couple of
million dollars, right? Just being in the right place. This is the holy grail of opportunities. And to not look at,
I love you having the space and having the conversation, because I think people just,
and this is what Simon was asking about the benchmark. Hey, sir, what is your benchmark?
What is your benchmark?
Do you want to get filthy fucking rich or not?
Do you want to get filthy fucking rich or not?
But Gary, like a real question.
Do you not think that you need a decent amount of money to be super filthy rich?
Because most Americans, because my audience is mainly Americans, but most people, but let's say Americans, generally speaking, don't have the kind of financial capital to sit on something for four
to eight years and then even then the the kind of spare money they have that they're able to invest
in isn't as much and therefore that's the reason why they're having to kind of you know do leverage
trading or various things like i for example do a lot of leverage trading for that reason because
you know but do you not think that what What's your thoughts on that, Gary?
It looks like he dropped on my screen, Slimane.
The answer is, I'll answer it as well.
Yeah, go for it.
I think Bruce wants to answer it as well.
Let's bring him.
Yeah, yeah, I was there.
I will bring in some boost.
The answer is 10% compounded annual returns on $10 and a million dollars is the same. 10% is 10%.
The best fund manager in the world, if you get the best fund manager in the world,
they can consistently produce 35%. And that's taking massive risk 35 compounded returns per year if you can beat that then you
are beating the best of the best of the best that sits there all day and what people don't realize
is that if you can achieve 35 compounded returns per year and you dollar cost average and you add every month um people have not done the calculation
on compounded returns your money's doubling every three years or less that's substantial man
sorry sam i just want to be i'm gonna be honest with you guys i just want to cut into this
conversation real quick because i i mean i'm gonna be honest with you guys everything that
we're talking about right now this is the same stuff that we were talking about five years ago, right? Six years ago,
four years ago, you know, in this space. You got to understand, right? You guys are talking rich
talk, right? You're talking rich people talk, people that have been in this space for a long
time that have accumulated over the years, right? No, you got to look at it from the perspective
of your average American, right?
Your average person around the world that is looking at this space right now and they see
an opportunity right now when they look at Bitcoin and there's not, I love Bitcoin and
there's nothing wrong with Bitcoin, but when they look at Bitcoin, they look at it like,
what does it have to, you know, if I have five grand right now to invest, right. And I buy, and I put it into
Bitcoin, how long do I have to wait to see a return? Now, five years ago, if they would have
put it into Bitcoin or six years ago or seven years ago from when Simon and Gary and some of
the other guys up here have been accumulating, it would have made a huge difference right so i i truly believe i mean and here guys you know
bitcoin i i i mean look at who owns bitcoin right now look at how much they own of bitcoin right now
i don't think bitcoin is for the people right now i'm gonna be i'm gonna be honest
this is the mindset that will guarantee you'll never be rich because I used to think like that when I wasn't
rich. I was deep in debt
and I was trying to figure out
how do I pay off my debt? How do I pay
next month's rent?
That type of mindset
is the very mindset that will guarantee
you won't ever be rich because the rules
are identical.
Money isn't real.
It's just not.
Simon, I don't believe that.
Listen to my example, brother.
If you look back, right, five years, like you said,
the same exact person that diversified, right,
diversified all their money,
ended up throughout diversifying finding out about even
more things to diversify in looks back today 99 of the time and says i wish i went all in on bitcoin
and we see it on the timeline all day in front of our faces right you see so many people that
put their money in nfts and sure in 700, right? They were getting their paychecks and throwing in different tokens, throwing in different tokens. Today they're broke. All those tokens are down bad. They didn't sell at the right times. You know, one might've popped and offset the losses on the other versus if had they gone all in on Bitcoin.
Absolutely. And I agree. And I agree with you. Absolutely. All in on Solana. And I agree. All in on Solana.
And I agree with you.
I agree with you, Brooks, on that point.
Let Nico jump in because you want to push back, right?
You disagree.
Go ahead.
I agree with you on that point.
Five years ago, that was the move.
Solana was at $17, $10, $12.
Bitcoin, if I'm not mistaken.
Brother two years ago. Okay. But still, I'm not mistaken, you're, you know, brother two years ago.
Okay.
But still I'm talking about now books.
I'm talking about,
I'm talking about now.
I'm talking about,
you might go.
People are broke.
Hear me out right now.
You might go and diversify all that money.
And five,
10 years from now,
let's just say Bitcoin is a million dollars,
right?
You could have said, man, I could have bought two Bitcoins
instead of diversifying into these 400 tokens.
Dude, I fucking feel like...
People can't wait five and 10 years ago.
That's my point.
We should, right?
They will always be broke if you can.
I'm getting a lot of feedback right now, guys.
You guys aren't letting me speak really quick.
All I'm saying is people cannot wait five, ten years right now.
People are trying to get in, and they're trying to pay their bills.
They're trying to figure out what should they go into that they can make money to pay their bills at the end of this month rather than five years from now.
That's why you're seeing a lot of those people enter this space right now.
Then you need to gamble.
What is the...
And that is my point.
I see a lot more people gambling now,
whether it's leverage trading,
whether it's meme coins,
whether it's finding the right project.
Obviously, they can lose it all.
You know what I mean?
Obviously, they can lose it all.
But I think, you know,
I think the whole Bitcoin pitch.
That's not sustainable life.
If you want sustainable life, you have to figure out a way of spending less than you earn.
And even if you've only got $10 left, you have to invest that $10 to outperform inflation.
If you never learn that, if you never learn that lesson, you'll be broke for the rest of your life. You'll keep trading to pay the rent and you'll never get ahead. Sometimes you
won't be able to pay the rent. Sometimes you'll be able to make six months rent and then you lose it
because you will never break that cycle unless you learn one fundamental thing. You have to find a
way of spending less than you earn and figuring out how to outperform inflation.
And Bitcoin's the only way that I know where you can consistently not have to worry about everything and you can reliably look into the future and say you're ahead.
Now, if at the same time you want to do a little bit of trading and gambling, I think you'll find that that won't outperform your Bitcoin.
But Simon, just let me let me just give another scenario just to push back on what you're saying.
Let's say, hypothetically speaking, one, you know, whatever position one's in, you can either put money in a bank and you're right.
Like that money is not going to be worth what it is today.
Sorry, I said, oh, when you put money in a bank,
you're basically trying to outpace inflation. Yeah, which you don't do.
Yeah. Which has amazing rates, which most people don't in America. What's your interest rate?
Like what, 2.5 or something? It's garbage, right? Yeah, it doesn't even meet inflation. So my
question is this. So hypothetically, you put money in a bank account. As Ian said, quite accurately,
the value of that money isn't
the same in a year than that, you know, in terms of when you compare it to inflation, no doubt about
it. The other risk is because, yeah, you can put money in and hope and know that in four years time,
definitely Bitcoin will be worth more in four years than it is now. But the real thing is,
in one year, is it going to be worth more than it is now? And what if hypothetically speaking,
in one year, is it going to be worth more than it is now? And what if, hypothetically speaking,
in one year, there is a significant need to go into your savings? Because for most Americans
and most people in the world, they have to dip into the savings every once in a while for an
important issue. And so then what happens is, let's say you dip into your savings in a year,
definitely fiat is going to be worth in terms of intrinsically is not worth as much in a year,
but Bitcoin may have crashed next year to like 40,000 or 50,000.
And so I think that's the concern people have.
This is the concern.
This is the concern.
Your job, your lesson is not to learn what to invest in.
Your lesson is money management.
That's the lesson everybody needs,
which is you need to separate your spending,
your saving, and your investing.
And your investing has to be a four to
10-year strategy. And if you're trying to trade in order to spend, you're just gambling and you
don't know whether you're going to pay the next month's rent because you have to actually put
together a 10-year plan. And if you don't put together a 10-year plan,
you'll be in the forever merry-go-round of having a medical emergency and realizing
you have to sell all your Bitcoin to try and pay that. And that's the lesson everybody needs. Every
single person, you vastly underestimate what you can do in 10 years and you need to learn money
management. If you're trying to figure out how to make it all in six months, you can have a strategy for how to do that.
But you still need the 10 year plan.
Let me bring in Bruce.
Bruce, jump in because I know you're breaking.
Yeah, that's why it's important to, you know, to budget, have a plan, have a strategy.
You want to have and this is why it's okay to get rich slow. The path of
diversification can often be de-worsification and the path of trying to get rich quick often
leads to getting broke quick. A lot of people who make wealth, most people who make wealth,
make it slowly. A lot of times it's like you're an overnight success after you work for 25, 30 years.
And it's very easy to come from modest backgrounds, but with just simple, there's certain things
that you can't control in the world.
A lot of things you can't control, but there is some simple things that you can control.
The power of compounding, if you get that on your side, living beneath your means.
And I've seen people, I was a financial advisor early in my whole first, I still am.
My whole career, I've been a financial advisor.
So I've had a front row seat to seeing people make wealth.
And then getting into Bitcoin a while ago, I had a triple front row seat because I've
seen a lot of really good friends and been in the space.
So I've seen it a lot of, you know, really good friends and been in the space. So I've seen it a lot, you know, but when I was a regular financial advisor, you know, we had a woman come in one
time. She was making like minimum wage and for 20 and she was living like super low. I mean,
I get the equivalent today, I don't know, 25,000 or something like that, you know, low income level,
but she managed to live beneath her means. You know, she's something like that, you know, low income level. But she managed to live beneath
her means. You know, she's eating like rice and beans and saving. Every financial advisor has a
story like this of somebody who just manages to save. You know, she was like stocking away. She's
making like $25,000 and somehow she's managing to save like $7,000 a year. And she does this for
years and years and years and years.
And she bought good stocks and she ended up with a bunch of money.
And every financial advisor has some story like that.
The person who comes in, they're a janitor or they have some other job that's not known
as being a high-paying job, but because of consistency and discipline and living beneath
their means, they managed to make it.
And then the flip side is true.
My wife worked at a bank.
She had these people early in her career.
They had a combined income of like,
I think it was $600,000 or something like that.
And they had so much debt.
They couldn't even get a debt consolidation loan.
You know,
they're just,
you know,
and I've seen this all the time.
I see people like I'm stunned at people who, you know, what to me, I think, you know, it's
not that much money, you know, people who may have a few hundred grand a year and they
have like four cars and they're all like leased and they're really expensive.
You know, they have like the new Mercedes and the new Range Rover and the Porsche Cayenne.
And it's like, what are you doing? You shouldn't be buying those cars. You have an almost negative
net worth, or you have a bunch of debt, or you have a couple hundred grand, and you're paying
$5,000 a month on your payments. There's stupid things that you can do that will erode wealth.
And yeah, there's a lot of luck and factors that are out there.
But if you stick with some of these simple principles, and one of those is people don't
want to hear it.
They all want to look for the quick, simple way.
But having a long-term time horizon makes sense.
Because the simple, simple little steps that you can do, even if
it's saving $10 a week, if you're consistent about it, and then you try and increase it to 20,
and I've seen this so many times, it sounds silly, it sounds preachy, I know, especially if you think
like, oh, this guy's lucky because he got into Bitcoin or whatever. But it really is, you know,
I may be one of those cases where it's
like I worked for a long, long, long, long time to be able to be in a position that I could take
a good position in Bitcoin, you know, early on, because I had already been working for like 20
years. And I didn't always do these principles, you know, I didn't always save. But, you know,
sometimes the basic principles of living beneath your means, it'll give you that flexibility. So
like what Simon said, if you give you that flexibility. So like what
Simon said, if you have a medical emergency or something like that, you need to have a buffer,
because those are the things that can wreck you. And then meanwhile, the more flexibility you have,
you know, Mark Cuban has talked about this, just having a little bit of ability to like,
not be one of the most refreshing things as you know, and it takes time. I mean, for me, it took,
I don't know, maybe 20 years or so before I got to a point where I had the you know more flexibility like
if you don't need your job like if you that is a huge relief to be like okay you can fire me I
can take a look at something else I can take a risk and take a year off and start a business
or something like those are superpowers because that's where you're going to level up and level up and level up. And it may take a long time, you know, sorry,
like, you know, I wish I could tell you some easy, quick way to get rich quick. But, you know,
more often than not, those strategies are going to burn people and you're going to end up losing
a bunch. And, you know, everybody's always trying to looked for an easy way out. But sometimes just proven, you know, methods, you know, have a good or service that you offer.
Have, you know, some way of generating real money.
And by real money, I mean Bitcoin.
Generate cash and buy Bitcoin with it.
Save.
Be consistent.
Live beneath your means.
Living beneath your means is huge.
You know, there's so many stupid things.
You know, you want to show me how you want to see somebody who's most likely poor if you see somebody when they're really, really, really into what kind of sneakers they have.
That's bizarre.
The people I hang around with a lot of very, very, very wealthy people.
Nobody cares about that kind of stuff.
I know people with deca, deca, deca millions who couldn't care less.
I know people who are literally broke deca, deca millions who couldn't care less. And I know people who are like literally broke.
They have zero net worth.
They have like $5,000 or negative $50,000 net worth.
And they're all obsessed about the, oh, I got the new Yeezys or whatever.
And they put it on credit cards.
You know, so there's a lot of like the world is trying to screw you and get you to do these
stupid, stupid decisions.
And you could just as easily take that. And, you know, I mean, especially if you bought Bitcoin,
there's a great website that talks about like all the dumb things that you could have bought,
like this DVD or that, you know, game or whatever, that if you had bought Bitcoin instead,
what it would be worth. But yeah, that's the big thing, you know, being consistent. And,
you know, and also, you know, equities are great. Real estate is great, you know, generating income. I mean, there's a million books and stuff about all of
these principles. I'm not talking about anything that's at all revolutionary, but, you know,
there's so many people who always want to get a shortcut and I would definitely advise against
that. And guys, first of all, I appreciate all the panel coming on i welcome want to welcome annis
and jamie as well and and robert i've got a number of questions for them as well appreciate
coming on my boy more fit and guys if you can do me a favor if you can hit the follow and hit the
notifications we are going to be doing these regular finance crypto spaces and it's a full-on
takeover i appreciate all 1 500 people on here on here. I think we're giving very good information,
very good knowledge, and it's going to be a mesh
between finance, crypto,
meme coins, Bitcoin, everything.
We're going to really try and give people as much
information as knowledge as possible.
First base, appreciate
the love, but put the notifications on
because we will be doing another space
sometime. If there's breaking news, obviously straight away,
but if not, likely we'll be back early next week, but we'll give you more information on that.
And I want to welcome you into the conversation. I appreciate you coming on. I know you're an expert
on oil and energy. I do trade a lot on oil. I do really well on it in that regard, but just give
us your thoughts in terms of, we've talked a lot about crypto.
I just want to know a bit more about what's happening with the market.
We know oil prices increased significantly during the war.
Obviously, they then basically went down a bit.
But what's the update on the energy market and where do you foresee it going in terms of in the short term and also in terms of Trump's presidency?
Thank you. Fordy.
Real quick, Genius Act passed, or hold on.
Something's about to happen with the Genius Act.
I don't want to jump the gun here.
The USDC Treasury minted $640 million on Solana.
Guys, the last time that happened was on January 19th, earlier this year,
right before the market started going crazy on Inauguration Day.
So we're about to see some heavy movement in the market.
So please pay close attention, all my leveraged traders out there.
Sorry, Enos. Go ahead, brother.
Yeah, just before you do, just to give people what the breaking news is, the Clarity Act
passed the House in a vote of 294 to 134 with 78 Democrats voting in favor.
More than double that was expected. And the next thing on the horizon is the Genius Act. We'll
talk more about those acts as well. That's part of the conversation we're going to have. I think
that's an important point. I think the Anti-CBDC Act is the third one that we're going to speak about. I think very much, I think Simon's dropped, but that's something me
and him very much do speak about in terms of those issues. But that being said, we are going to speak
about all those issues. I will definitely go back to my boy Joe, but Anderson, we'll continue with
the talks. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. When we talk about energy markets, we are talking
about, of course, massive markets. We are talking about oil, gas, coal, nuclear, renewable energy, everything related to electric vehicles, et cetera.
So it's a huge market.
And therefore, if we are going to talk about these things in the future, we are going to talk about several things that are related to all these things together.
several things that are related to all these things together.
Looking at the oil market, one of the issues that we have been having problems with is
that why did oil prices decline in the first place this year?
And the media basically been telling us, well, OPEC plus been increasing production and therefore
prices declined.
It's complete nonsense.
Prices declined simply because of lower economic growth in China on one hand and all the negative
impact of the trade wars and the tariffs and everything else that slowed down everything.
So that was the main reason for the decline in oil prices.
main reason for the decline in oil prices. When we talk about OPEC, since this is kind of
the first show, I would like to explain this in a little bit more details. We do have OPEC,
which is the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, which has 12 members. And then we have OPEC plus, OPEC plus that's OPEC members plus 10 members
that include, including Russia and Kazakhstan.
So the total is 22 countries.
And then we have what we call the group of eight
or the V8.
The group of eight are members
who voluntarily cut production.
So we are talking about three different groups.
What happened is after oil prices increased substantially
after the Russian invasion of Ukraine,
because some people, including the Biden administration,
the International Energy Agency,
tried to sell us the idea that Russian oil production is going to decline by three to five million barrels a day.
And that was not only did not make any sense.
It was fake.
It never happened.
Despite the sanctions, despite everything else.
Anyway, later on, prices declined and economies faltered after the end of COVID lockdowns
and the oil inventories started going up.
OPEC Plus met and decided to cut production by 2 million barrels a day.
But that was not enough.
but that was not enough. They tried to meet again to cut production. They couldn't because the 22
They tried to meet again to cut production.
countries, all of them have to agree on one thing. The decision has to be by consensus.
If they don't have consensus, then they cannot have a decision. A group of eight out of those 22
out of those 22 decided to voluntarily reduce production,
and they did reduce production by 1.6 million barrels a day.
That was not enough.
So they cut again by 2.2 million barrels a day.
So the idea here is I have three groups, OPEC, OPEC Plus,
and the V8 or the group of eight, and then I have three cuts, the one by OPEC Plus and the rest by
the group of eight. The group of eight decided to unwind the latest cuts, the 2.2 million barrels
a day. They couldn't because market conditions were worsening. So they delayed it and delayed it and delayed it until October
2024 by the time they wanted to increase production by October 2024 they
realized that we had the presidential elections in the United States and they
better wait until we see who is the president so they delayed it until
December in December they decided the unwinding will start on the 1st of april and they started increasing
production on the 1st of april so the media tells us opec plus did this no it's not opec plus it
has nothing to do with opec plus it has nothing to do with opeC meetings or OPEC plus meetings at all. This is the group of eight.
And they decided to increase production by 138,000 barrels a day over 18 months.
If you multiply that by 18 months, you end up with the 2.2 million barrels a day they cut.
And suddenly in March, they decided to expedite the increases.
So instead of increasing 138, they decided to go for 411.
So they did increase the production ceiling.
Notice I'm saying here ceiling.
Notice I'm saying here ceiling.
By 138 in April, 411 in May, 411 in June, 411 in July.
They decided, of course, to meet on a monthly basis.
They met a week ago and they decided to increase production by fivefold the initial increase, 548,000 barrels a day in August.
And we have negative media press that's been talking about decreasing prices because of it.
It did not happen.
So that means OPEC sees things that the media does not see and many analysts did not see. And the question here is
why they did increase production and why the prices did not decline to the 40s like many
analysts predicted. Well, analysts basically missed several points and they are still missing them until today. And some of those points are, first, usually starting in May of every year,
the summer months start in the Middle East and many oil-producing countries.
And those countries depend heavily on cooling because the summer is really harsh.
So the demand for cooling increases substantially, which means a very
strong demand for electricity. And the only way to meet that demand is literally to burn
some oil products in power plants. So most of the increase they decided to do,
basically, is going to be consumed within those countries and world oil markets are not going to
see it the other thing is when they decided to increase production or unwind the voluntary cuts
in april most of that oil was already in the market because kazakhstan iraq and russia were
cheating already so the the oil was already in the market so the the net amount of oil that is in the market
is way, way lower than what they announced.
But analysts basically kept talking the headline number
as the net addition.
In addition, we have the Hajj or the pilgrimage
where millions of Muslims go to Saudi Arabia
at a certain time of the year.
This year is May, June. That increases the
demand for gasoline, diesel, fuel oil, jet fuel substantially, which means that whatever addition
Saudi Arabia was making, some of it will be consumed within the country and the rest of the
world will not see it. So these are some of the stuff that many
analysts missed. At the same time, while this is happening, we ended up with a major decline in
the exports of the United States, Venezuela, Ecuador, Brazil by about 1.1 million barrels a day.
And analysts missed that too. Venezuela basically reduced its export substantially because of the
Trump tariffs on countries that import from Venezuela. They did not see that either.
So where to go with all this background now, where to go forward? The issue here is the
additions that the Group of Eight and OPEC Plus is making is literally finding place, but without affecting prices.
Our problem right now is this.
When it comes to the fourth quarter, the summer will end.
And therefore, the amount of oil they are burning in the power plants is going to be available to the world.
And will that push prices down?
The answer is yes.
But at the same time, this is the maintenance time.
So many companies will go for maintenance.
So we will see some increase in supplies, but it's not that significant simply because of the maintenance programs.
but it's not that significant simply because of the maintenance programs.
Our main problem is the first quarter of 2016, sorry, 2026,
when oil demand seasonally decreases.
And with that decrease, what will happen to all those supplies?
Will the group of eight go back again and cut or just let it go?
go back again and cut or just let it go? Will we see a comprehensive deal, a trade deal between
the United States and China? When I say comprehensive, I'm not talking about what
we've seen so far. I'm talking about way, way bigger, where we go back almost to the old days.
If that happens, then the demand in China and the United States will go up substantially and compensate for that decline.
Otherwise, if we don't have a comprehensive deal, then prices should decline in the first quarter.
The final point is this.
When the group of eight a week ago decided to increase the output by fivefold, the initial increase, 548,000, they said we did it because of low inventories.
We do have enough evidence to show that global oil inventories are very low.
Inventories in the United States are very low.
And if you look at products,
destilate inventories and diesel inventories
are critically low.
So we do have a serious problem
and they are responding to that.
Here is the issue.
China's oil inventories are at record high
as of last week.
At record high, the highest ever. And the question
is, what will the Chinese do? Why they are doing this? In general, the Chinese are stocking up on
everything in preparation for either war or sanctions. So that's part of it. They are trying
to keep 90 days of supply, which means that if they were cut off
from the world completely, they can survive for 90 days without any problems. But we've seen the
Chinese action historically, where every time oil prices go up, they will dump oil on the market
to prevent oil prices from going up. And China, for the last five years have become more powerful than OPEC itself in the oil market.
Appreciate that, Anas. Just some breaking news, and then I'll give you a few seconds to wrap up
your point. The breaking news is that now the House has passed the Genius Act, another big
win for crypto. We're going to speak about the Genius Act and the Clarity Act. The Clarity Act
passed the passage vote. The Genius Act has passed completely.
It just needs a signature of Besson and Trump,
and then it'll become, you know, it'll pass through.
So we're going to speak about that in a second.
But Anas, do you finish your point?
And then we'll get into the conversation about the bills and various other things.
So the issue in the coming months is what will the Chinese do?
They have strategic decisions basically to make about the size of the inventories on one side.
And at the same time, they don't want oil prices to go up.
So how much oil they are going to dump on the market when oil prices go up?
So that's really the biggest issue that we are
talking about. So to wrap up, we have the first quarter of 2026, where demand declines seasonally,
and we have the Chinese inventories that will be used to prevent prices from going up. And these
are the two main concerns. Back to back to you appreciate that anison yeah
look i do keep a good eye on the oil market i do trade quite a bit on oil so yeah it's very
important hence why we've got anison because obviously people are trading in the market
whether it's oil or various other things and i wanted people to hear from anis the exact situation
that's occurring in the energy market so you get a good idea and then you can you know make your
decisions based on that or not but it just gives you an idea of what's going on in the market and just to give people
an idea about the clarity act the genius act and i do want to have this conversation with the
with the panelists so the first of all is in terms of the clarity act the clarity act has passed
through the process vote, obviously is likely
going to pass through completely. But what it does is it creates a kind of a regulatory structure
called the CTFC, the Commodity Future Trading Commission, which kind of works alongside the
SEC, but doesn't work alongside it. And so therefore, the concern is, and I guess this is
what I'm going to ask the panelists I don't
know if Simon you know I did have Potter in here who was going to come in and speak about it but
he had to he got busy but he's going to try and come in later but the concern is that there's
going to be a confusion about what aspects cover is covered by the SEC what's covered by the CTFC
maybe concerns about too much regulation that's the first one in terms
of the um the clarity act what's your what's your thoughts on that uh simon uh hey so yeah so um
in summary so i just took a big mouthful of something um i don't need to know that simon
i know that's all right you didn't enjoy i'm done all right okay so um yeah there's three acts so today america is
calling this week crypto week and by crypto week they mean they were trying to pass like three
bits of legislation one was the genius act and the genius act has a regulatory environment by
which stable coins can be issued um which uh all of the banks, all of the technocrats, Trump himself,
they all want to issue stablecoins. They back it by the US debt. So it allows the stablecoin
issuer to benefit from the US debt. And it may be a future monetary policy tool that's done
outside of the Federal Reserve in order to roll over the government debt. So
that's essentially as good as passed. It just needs to go to Trump to sign on it now.
The other one is the Clarity Act, and it's meant to clear up all of that confusion.
So when is a digital asset a security, in which case it's regulated by the SEC?
So when is a digital asset a security, in which case it's regulated by the SEC?
When is it a currency, in which case it's regulated by the OCC?
And when is it a commodity, in which case it's regulated by the CFTC?
And when is it unregulated, i.e. Bitcoin doesn't need to be regulated.
But if you're creating a derivative of Bitcoin, then you need to be regulated by the CFTC and various other things.
So Clarity Act is meant to clear that up and clarify, as it were.
It's still got a chunk more to go, but the fact that it's passed is actually faster than we thought it would go.
And yeah, there may be all sorts of draconian regulations.
There may be a sorts of draconian regulations.
There may be a deregulated environment.
But the thing that held it back was actually the anti-CBDC Act.
So some people wouldn't sign the Genius Act unless it explicitly prohibited a central bank digital currency.
And a CBDC could be created by the Fed essentially using a shadow company. But if I'm in on that, there's a separate, this is one thing I never fully understood the logic behind.
There is a separate anti-CBDC act.
So what are they saying?
That they didn't want the separate act and then they want that act incorporated into the polarity slash genius?
act incorporate into the uh polarity slash genius they didn't want cbdc's in there right because it
wasn't clear enough that you know they would ban cbdc's the last thing crypto needs but isn't there
a separate cbdc ian but isn't there a separate uh there is yeah but they just these guys wanted it
in there because they wanted to make sure that they're not passing something and then you know
they pull a fast one and then they're like oh hey by the way we're uh we're gonna make a cbdc you know like that that is yeah that would be really bad right
oh that makes sense because in case the anti-cbdc act doesn't pass right correct yeah so yeah it's
basically politics so they want to be hoodwinked into signing one thing and then something else
doesn't happen but also libertarians thank you yeah but also there's the possibility of using the Stablecoin Genius Act in order to create a shadow CBDC by the Federal Reserve using an organization like JP Morgan and then engaging in crony capitalism where they, for example, gave banks significant advantages in their stablecoin over decentralized stablecoin issuers by allowing them to pay yield where
others couldn't pay yield.
And therefore, you could create a shadow stablecoin, which is kind of how the central bank works
right now, because the shareholders of the Federal Reserve are the private banks.
And JP Morgan is one of the most significant shareholders. So they almost are like shadow CBDCs, but with leverage.
And so they wanted to maintain the same type of structure.
So it actually all comes down to the banking lobby, the technical lobby,
and all of these different vested interests with the crypto lobby,
which became a significant thing since the Trump
administration. So it's all politics. Yeah, there's a great, there's a great scene in Mr. Robot,
the show about the hacker and the banker who plays like this, you know, Enron slash Goldman
Sachs type character CEO. There's this awesome he's let he says um you know he's
basically working he's the villain and he's working with the fed and uh and the treasury
and he's like bossing them all around and he says you know um we can't let bitcoin get forward
because that'll hurt our own coin which is going to enable us to have a backdoor on on everybody's
transactions that we're going to give to the Fed.
And it's funny. I thought that was a genius scene.
And that was like a while ago. I mean, it's probably been six years or something like that.
But that's exactly true.
You know, I have total skepticism over all of this stuff.
You know, it's just a bunch of status authoritarian tyrants who have their boot on our head.
And I don't understand why our
industry is cheering for this stuff. Like, this isn't the way it's supposed to be. This is horrible
stuff. And they've shown themselves to be evil to the point that you wonder if they're demonic.
You know, the whole government, you know, global governments are the most evil, horrible people
on earth. And they've willfully shown again and again and again, time after time after time, that they just don't care.
They're going to keep being evil.
And they clearly want this power, and they've shown this again and again as well, that they want this power to be able to control transactions, watch where people's money goes.
It's already way, way, way out of hand and has been for a long time. We shouldn't have AML-KYC. We shouldn't have any of
this stuff at all. It should all be scrapped. And we're going the opposite direction of what
we should do. This technology is supposed to free us from this and have decentralization over
centralized parties. It's supposed to have power in the hands of people and voluntary transactions and code, rather than, you know,
tyrants who sit lording over us from their offices in the EU or Washington, D.C.
And they're just going to use this. This stuff is going to be used against us. They're going to use
it to have even more control and act like you're a criminal because you want to do a voluntary trade.
And like a, you know, frog in boiling water,
people are going to be thinking it's normal to say like, oh, I want to sell Simon my motorcycle, but I need to get permission to say where the money came from. And he's got to get permission
from his bank to accept the money. It's ridiculous. It's not the way the world should work. And I,
and it's crazy that people celebrate this kind of stuff and don't see when you have the worst actors in the world that are right in front of our face pushing this stuff.
And we don't see that it's very, very obvious that these are bad actors who want ill upon us and they want to control us even more.
And people keep falling for it like, yeah, we got clarity.
You know, screw clarity.
I want freedom, man.
I want this technology to be free.
I don't want these tyrants having even more control over us.
And you know 100% that that's exactly what's going to happen.
They're going to use this as a backdoor because they're going to have special secret deals with the banks.
Or not secret.
It's right out there in public.
They're going to have special deals with the banks and special sweetheart deals.
And you better believe that the people who get approvals, that's what happens. Whenever you put these things under some regime that needs approval,
it's the cronies who are going to get the approval. And the cronies are going to be the ones who
screw the people. It's their buddies. It's the same people who got the bailouts from the TARP
and everything else. Same people who've been screwing us all along. Same people who issued
Operation Choke Point. Same people who screwed our industry for a decade, same people
are going to be empowered. It's like, oh, yay, we're going to celebrate because these guys have
clarity on their stable coin that they can use to screw you. Don't fall for it. Buy Bitcoin and
hold it yourself and opt out of this corrupt, broken, horrible system because all it's going
to do is screw you. And if you can't see that, I don't get it. It's like that witch in Chronicles of Narnia. She shows up and she's like,
hello, little boy, would you like some candy? And it's like, how do you not know she's a villain,
bro? How do you not look at the world and see that these people are villains? They're scum.
dumb. They're horrible. They have, you know, more people in prison than we've almost ever had in
They're horrible. They have more people in prison than we've almost ever had in the world.
the world. You got wars going on all of the time, blatant and total corruption, literally pedophiles
getting away with it because reasons, you know, how dumb do you have to be to keep falling for
this stuff? We have it right before our eyes, a way to break out of this corrupt, broken, stupid,
horrible system. And people are celebrating like, oh, yeah, our
congressman threw me a bone, and we've got clarity. Screw clarity. Screw any of this. You've got to
opt out of the system, take care of yourself, take care of your family, and ignore all these tyrants
and stop falling for their bullshit. I appreciate that, Bruce, and I love the passion for sure.
Guys, much like, obviously, the space will continue, not that, but. And I love the passion for sure. Guys, much like, obviously the space is continuing, not that.
But I just want to thank every single person who came to this,
who's in the space right now.
I think we had 1,500 people, 1,400 people, all real people,
not battered or bottled like the rest of the spaces on X,
all legitimate people.
And so therefore, I appreciate the love and support.
And we wanted to make this space.
And I can't believe how much I'm enjoying it. I was like, oh, I've got to do a crypto space. And it's ended up being golden. Like, I've the love and support. And we wanted to make this space. And I can't believe how much I'm enjoying it.
I was like, oh, I've got to do a crypto space.
And it's ended up being golden.
Like, I've learned so much.
Basically, I think we've had a wide diverse opinions.
We've spoke about the market.
We spoke about Bitcoin.
We spoke about crypto.
We're going to be speaking about MAME coins in a bit.
And so, therefore, I really appreciate the space.
And do give us a follow.
Hit the notifications on because we will be doing these spaces regularly.
And as you can see, full on takeover.
You get information, you get knowledge, you're going to get diverse opinions.
You're going to get a broad perspective.
You're going to get information on all aspects of crypto and the market and opinion from experts.
And then you can make your own decision based on that.
We want to make it the most informative place to be just like the political spaces we took over we made them
the most informative we wanted to make these spaces the same and we will make it so this is
the first space they're going to be regular from next week we're probably going to do regular spaces
almost on a daily basis so watch out for that so hit the follow hit the notifications it's going to
be a full-on takeover i'm going to pass the mic to books in a second who's going to be a full-on takeover. I'm going to pass the mic to Books in a second, who's going to take us into the meme coin aspect
and the leverage trade and various other things
that I'm interested in as well.
And I do take part in considerably.
So we're going to speak about that in a second.
But Simon's got his hand up.
He's my boy.
I can never, ever not go to him.
Go ahead, Simon, jump in.
No, I was just going to say a quick thing, Sully.
We're covering a lot of ground,
but I really want to make a quick suggestion.
Robert's on the stage.
And I think he's got a really good grip around like what trump's doing and fiscal dominance and the impact i'm just going to have and the importance of owning scarce assets so if you
want to go down the meme coin route then then cool but i really i think your audience would
really benefit from robert's insights on the on. Bro, listen, if my boy Simon thinks that someone's going to give a golden insight,
then I cannot, and it's impossible for me not to listen to his advice when he is the OG,
the OG of crypto.
Listen, guys, you would not even have crypto if it wasn't for my boy Simon.
You wouldn't even know what crypto is.
He's probably, there's rumors, I'm neither confirming him or denying him that he's
the koshi nakamoto himself but that these are rumors which have been created solely by me and
therefore may not exist but he's the og anyway of bitcoin so we appreciate simon of course robert do
jump in with your expertise in that perspective which in especially in terms of what simon said
and that was part of the reason why i didn't invite you. So I do appreciate you coming on. Do jump in. Yeah. Hey, guys. I appreciate the
kind word, Simon, as always. I do think it's a bit of a turning point that we're reaching here.
So, you know, you have this shadow fed concept. Clearly, Trump is angry at Jerome Powell. This
goes back to the first administration, quantitative tightening and monetary policy of the first Trump term. But clearly, this tension with Powell is escalating. So you he appoints the new Fed share very, very early,
not, you know, nine months from now, but like tomorrow or next week or next month,
very, very early, has that person then go out into the market, be very, very dovish,
and markets are forward-looking instruments. So they price in that, they discount that future
reality. If they know the next Fed share is going to take rates to zero, you'll see instantaneous movement in currencies and the bond market and things like that. So that's kind of the shadow Fed concept. You have like the three main names in the running, Kevin Hassek, Kevin Warsh, and Christopher Waller, and they're all pretty
dovish. Now, Kevin Warsh used to be hawkish and critical of the Fed, critical of QE,
critical of easy monetary policy, but he's pivoted recently. And yeah, look, kind of all
the administration officials clearly pivoted away from Doge, away from fiscal conservatism
and balanced budget and Doge. They clearly pivoted away from that, whether it was Chamath or
even Besant himself. They clearly pivoted away from that a couple months ago. And now you have
the addition of these people auditioning for the Fed and kind of the monetary policy angle with the
Fed. And they're all signaling pretty much the same thing, which is we're going to juice nominal
growth. We're going to run negative real rates. We're going to basically, under the prior
administration, we shifted a ton of our debt issuance into short-term bills. Short-term
bills are less volatile, so they're more easily and readily
levered into dollars, and the treasuries are being the collateral for the modern-day system.
So it's very pro-liquidity. The more debt that they issue in short-term bills,
the more pro-liquidity it is. And they're talking about even more debt being issued in bills. And
not only that, but they're going to cut,
they're talking, Trump is talking about cutting the federal funds rate by like 300 basis points
when you have unemployment at 4.1 and core CPI at 2.9. You know, they're basically telling you
they're going to run it hot. This is what we did after World War II. There's a period of fiscal
dominance where we had, you know had yield curve control and the Fed
was not acting in its own interest.
It was acting at behest of the Treasury.
It appears that Kevin Warsh this morning was talking about another Fed accord, except
this time it would probably go in the opposite direction where the Fed is kind of losing
some of its independence.
This is all incredibly bearish for the dollar,
in my opinion, incredibly bearish for bonds. Bonds basically must have a negative real return,
meaning, say, inflation's 3%, while those short-term bills where the debt's being issued, say they have 1% interest rate. Well, right there, you have a negative 2% real yield.
This is one of the tools they'll use. This is the kind of time where, you there, you have a negative 2% real yield. This is one of the tools
they'll use. This is the kind of time where this is the QE infinity or the yield curve control,
the kind of end game thing that Bitcoiners have talked about for a while. It's very inflationary.
It's very pro liquidity. It will be the time that you want to own scarcity. This is going to be the age, if it comes to pass, of overabundance of dollars.
And so the antidote to that is scarcity.
And right now, I like gold as well, but not nearly as much as I like Bitcoin.
And Bitcoin is more scarce.
It's more verifiable.
It's more divisible.
It's more transportable.
So I think Bitcoin is the best way to express this trade.
But yeah, this is kind of the time you want to be in a bearer asset that has kind of ultimate
hard-coded scarcity because they're kind of telling you what they want to do.
And it's basically the emerging market fiscal dominance sort of playbook.
You know, just look at the Turkish lira to see how this goes.
So yeah, just my thoughts. But
thanks for having me. Now, I've got a question for you, Robert, as well, if that's okay.
In terms of Jerome Powell, I asked Simon this question, but because you've actually spoke about
it, I do have the same question for you, is with the Jerome Powell, obviously, you've got this
tension between him and Trump, which you've explained quite brilliantly. Obviously, Trump wants to remove Jerome Powell,
but it's very difficult for him to do so.
If, hypothetically speaking, actually two questions.
One is, if Trump doesn't remove him, but then Jerome doesn't leave,
where's he going to leave the situation here?
Would he get the congressional approval?
And the second question linked to that or more important than that is if Powell was to be resigned or be removed, what happens to the crypto market?
And because we know, obviously, I know. And then also as well, explain to the audience what will happen to the financial market in terms of American debt and so on and so forth.
terms of American debt and so on and so forth. If you can highlight the issue as well, please.
If you can highlight the issues as well, please.
Yeah, I think it's a good question. So with Powell, I've kind of leaned against him actually
getting fired because you need to have cause. Now, they've been building the kind of ground,
laying the groundwork for that cause, right, with the Fed renovations and the $235 billion
in cumulative losses that the Fed has faced. So they've been kind of laying that groundwork.
I think it's kind of a misdirection. I think it's just pressure. I think it's much more likely that
Powell does not resign. I think Powell's a very prideful person. And I think he's very legacy
obsessed. So I don't think Powell resigns. I think what'll probably end up happening is they will
just basically keep hammering him and roll out
their next Fed share. Then they will have that guy who the entire bond market, entire currency
market, equity market, everyone knows this guy, whoever it is, he's going to be the next Fed
share. And they'll know eight months before the guy is out of his office, before Jerome Powell's
gone. And that guy will just go out and basically indicate to the market.
And I think it's pretty, depending on how dovish they are,
I think some degree of dovishness might be well-received
or not neutral, neutrally received by equities, bonds,
and the dollar and currencies.
I think if they come out and they're very,
very dovish, like they're just a straight up kind of puppet, like Kevin Hassett,
it's kind of who I view as the most puppet-like out of the three names. If you have that,
I think, you know, originally you would think that, like, I would think that equities would
do well in that. But my kind of core framework is you get a steeper yield curve,
meaning the spread between short-term yields and long-term yields widens. And if you have a
steepening yield curve and say the 30-year is already at 5%, say the 30-year goes to 5.5%,
the 10-year goes to 5%, I don't know. Yeah, initially it kind of should be good for equities
like the S&P, NASDAQ,
but then you're talking about a steeper yield curve and kind of higher long-end rates.
I think that there's a point where maybe equities do okay, but I wouldn't necessarily feel
comfortable owning that. You definitely don't want to be in bonds, in my opinion. And the dollar
is still grossly overvalued. They need to enact their full policy agenda of real industrialization. They need a fairly valued dollar, which is still a long ways below a DXY of 98 or whatever it is today. is not inherently a bad thing. It puts inflationary pressure because we rely on imports so much.
But I think that at the end of the day, they kind of want a weaker dollar. So I don't think that
that's as much of a negative for them. I think that the yield curve steepens. And eventually,
where it probably ends up is not only have they cut that short-term rate by a huge amount and run
negative real rates at the short end, But eventually, I think the long end
of the yield curve will get so high that, and that's where like real world things are priced,
right? Like car loans, mortgages, credit card interest rates. So eventually that curve will
steepen so much and those long-term bond yields will get so high that they have to like do an
operation twist where they issue debt at the
short end, raise cash, use that cash to then buy long-term bonds to bring the rates down.
And that's even more inflationary. So it kind of can get into like a spiral. I think something
like Bitcoin that's neutral, that's uncensorable, you know, the monetary policy, right? Like to me,
Simon and I have talked about this a lot, but like this is one of the core attributes of Bitcoin that makes it so appealing to someone that's kind of in the macro world is like we spend hours debating monetary policy of these people at the Fed. You know what the monetary policy of Bitcoin is going to be in six months, in six years, in 60 years, you know, and it is consensus derived. It's hard-coded,
right? The scarcity element. So I think that something like Bitcoin for sure does really well.
I don't focus too much on the alts and certainly the memes. So I would imagine a pro-liquidity
environment would be pretty positive for all of them though.
pretty positive for for for all of them though
i appreciate that and books i want to hand the mic to you because we're gonna now be talking
about meme coins and leverage trade and jump in yeah man so as far as leverage trading goes
i mean that's that's been like my my go-to during this cycle, because there's a lot of obvious opportunities.
And listen, if you could win more than you lose, it's a great play, in my opinion, right?
One, you don't go and need to use all your capital.
It's sort of like the credit system, right, where you shell out a certain amount of money.
The higher you increase the leverage, obviously, the more you increase your risk.
But we've been in so many situations over the last 10 or more years where, you know, by the rumor, play the by the rumor, sell the news has played a huge role in crypto.
And when it comes to leverage trading, it's the same thing, right? It's risk. It's looking back. It's like, oh man, if I was to do this instead of buying all that bullshit and
holding onto it and listening to broken promises only to learn that it's vaporware. I mean,
leverage trading is where it's at. I've personally made a lot of money. I've had a lot of people
that are around me that have made a lot of money in leverage trading.
Tons of crypto whales made their fortune through leverage trading, right?
Playing with the exchange's money to make more.
But you can also lose your ass because at the end of the day, it can be treated as gambling.
Meme coins.
Another thing that people are leverage trading me, I tend to stay away unless it's something that I feel like has topped out based off of sentiment
and I'll start throwing shorts in on all the top stuff while Bitcoin is tumbling those meme coins
are going to tumble even harder so why not take advantage of that so leverage trading is definitely
fun again during a time like this where there's opportunity and it's super predictable based off of minting m2 money supply the news that's going on
and what's happening a pro crypto regime presidential regime in the united states and
you know other countries following suit as well i think it's a it's an awesome play i don't know
if there's any traders in here people that play the leverage game but well i definitely love it
yeah and do let's bring up anybody who wants to speak about that.
Like I do quite a bit of leverage trading,
long-term, medium-term, and short-term.
Obviously, I've got some long-term players,
which I've left for like, you know,
either weeks or a month, depending on where things go.
But then you have like the short-term,
which is like yesterday was a prime example
to leverage trade on Solana.
I think it was at 165.
And you're looking at the charts, it was quite clear it was going to go up.
I believe it went up to 177 or something.
So those are the short-term plays where leverage trading works.
Or even XRP, I was looking at it, it was 287, I think, a day ago or two days ago.
I was like, it's quite clearly going to go to 330.
And then, obviously, then things are going to change.
So I think definitely, I think it's important.
Sorry, in terms of that, there is a few ways of looking at leverage trading.
Of course, you're right.
Some of it's looking at the political aspects, looking at the news, looking at information.
And then other aspects is looking at the charts, right?
Correct.
As far as meme coins go, I don't know, Suleiman, do you mess with meme coins at all?
I'll be honest with you.
I did at the beginning.
Sam has left me joke about this.
I did at the beginning when Trump liquidated the market and did an exit liquidity on all honest human beings.
I was like, listen, man ain't gonna dabble on meme coins too much.
I do a little bit here and there, but mainly I stick to like Bitcoin or the main also like, you know, Solana, XRP, Ethereum, hype, these
type of things.
So I like them, right?
I like meme coins.
I'm very, my, my mindset right now is very similar to yours because the liquidity really
hasn't, the volume and the liquidity really hasn't been there after the Trump token.
We've saw so much, you know, pump and dump and so much of it is manipulated nowadays
i'm not gonna say trump started the bundling thing but a lot of people tried copying him with
the bundling and pumping it into the tens of of uh millions or even to a hundred million to try to
create that fluff and bait people in it's just been so shady lately and me my whole game is staying away from low caps
i'd rather not take the risk on a low cap and when i say low cap guys i'm talking like below 10
million 5 10 million market cap tokens i'd rather not take that risk and go and buy into something
at 10 mil with a chance of going to 50 mil than try to 500x. And if I could do that 5, 10 times a month, I'm happy.
But that's more when I'm diving headfirst into meme coins.
Right now, I've been paying attention to the big ones.
You know, your labubus, your chill house, poop, monkey, all the pump fun token and all
that stuff. And it's not even appeasing
man it's not really trying to to bait me in at all because i'm just so sick of all the manipulation
going on all the fluff it's very easy nowadays especially with i'll give you guys pump fun as an
example it's very easy to bring a token into the millions by yourself as a founder.
So what these teams are doing is, you know, at launch, they're buying up 95% of that supply.
Bundling it with undetectable bundles.
They're buying wallets that have activity on them somewhere on the internet.
So it all looks legit they're using
mixers that again are undetectable so all your little scanners that y'all are using as tools out
there ain't going to help and then you look at the token where there's obviously it says there's a
billion coins but only five percent of that is truly in circulation, right? And not in control of bundled wallets.
Now, on top of that, you have the founder, the team, their friends trying to grab up
as much of that 5% as possible, which in turn brings the price of that token up to a 1 million,
2 million, 5 million market cap.
And it baits in a bunch of people, right?
It baits in a bunch of suckers.
And we all know how that usually ends out.
You'll see even teams come in with good intentions at first.
But then it ends up a situation, in my opinion, where the founder's like,
oh, I'm sick and tired of putting more money into this
or why don't i just sell someone else is going to sell if it's not me and i feel like we're in a
phase now when it comes to meme coins where people have learned their lessons right we're no longer
those beginners a lot of the people here trading meme coins today were here in 2020 they were here in 2021 they
were trading meme coins then or they were trading nfts and learned their lessons there so when they
come into this space it's like man do i want to make the same mistakes as i made last time
nah you know i'm gonna start taking profit a lot faster i'm gonna buy in a lot smaller
and on a broader scale I feel like that's what
we're starting to see. Now, when you have those huge meme coins, your mogs, your pepes,
your Trump coins, you're going to have someone that has learned a lesson in the past go in heavy.
Oh, this token's got a ton of liquidity. It's on all these centralized exchanges.
I'm going to go in with a couple hundred grand. And once I double, triple, or quadruple my money, I can pull out a million. You've got those coins. Now there's a lot of those
whales in the space as well, which is also almost not giving these coins breathing room to grow.
Now, what I think meme coins are good for is for your gambler, right? You're a guy that's got a
hundred dollars he doesn't care about, and he's go and try to buy in at in the in the hundreds of thousands or in the tens of thousands of market caps
try to buy in with like 25 50 75 bucks 100 bucks at most and if it works it works you know i'm on
to the next after that you know your little snipers and botters another thing that has changed is everybody uses bots now i remember in 2021 i was manually
sniping meme coins i had my own bot and i was sniping them were there other people doing the
same thing sure but it wasn't the whole entire space i wouldn't i would say like confidently i
could say not even five percent of the space at the time was even boxed. Just some breaking news, Brooks, and I'll give it straight back to you.
It is crypto-related.
The House has just passed the anti-central bank digital currency CBDC legislation.
So that has passed the House.
There won't be no CBDCs in the United States of America.
Actually, there's so much more to talk about.
So we will talk about these in the other spaces in terms of Trump allowing people to make purchases using crypto and various other things.
So we will have those conversations.
The first two hours of this space or two hours and a bit of this space, we talked about Bitcoin.
We talked about the crypto market generally.
We talked about the financial market.
Now we're moving on to speak about the meme coins for the last section of it.
But just so people are aware that that's the direction of the space that we've been taking.
And we'll be jumping back into those issues in the other space as well.
But Bucks, do jump in, do continue.
But great legislation that's passed in terms of the anti-CBDC.
But go ahead, Bucks, jump in.
Yeah, I don't want to listen.
I don't want to be bearish on meme coins, right?
So I hope you guys are not, obviously, Suleiman, what you just said is amazing news, right?
CBDCs are, in my opinion, some devil stuff.
Like, disgusting, thank God they're not passed.
We kind of knew it already, Trump, throughout his campaign, you know, not that he always
tells the truth, right?
Think what you want of the guy.
But, you know, he did say that he was not going to have CVDCs.
And we knew that his whole crew didn't really mess with CVDCs.
So that's amazing news.
It's good that we have that now.
But back to the meme coins.
So I don't want to sound bearish on it, guys.
I'm just not.
Mentally, that's not what I'm focused on.
That's not where I make my money.
I make my money leverage trading. I make my money buying low selling high and most importantly guys i make
my money based off of sentiment and fading the public like when i go on the timeline and
everyone's saying it's over it's over we're screwed it's done that's it you know sell in
may and go away and i look at the the charts and the charts are down and they're tanking. I'm
accumulating, ladies and gentlemen. Why? Because I work off of probability. I see something,
for example, I see Bitcoin reach $120,000 in the middle of a summer, which is usually dead
for crypto. I see Bitcoin go down in price, down to, let's say, 100 grand, 99 grand.
I'm accumulating.
Why am I accumulating?
Based off of probability.
You know, what are the chances that this goes back over 120,000?
Pretty damn high.
Why?
Because based off of some little news,
during the middle of a summer,
it pumped over $120K.
So I'm going to accumulate when everyone's running for the hills.
And I'm going to hold.
And usually that hold time is not even long.
It's a month, two months, three months, maybe two quarters at most.
Right now, I'm predicting that fall and winter are going to be amazing for crypto.
My perspective on meme coins is also going to change by then.
That's when I'm going to want to go in. Why? Because there's going to be powder in the space.
There's going to be guns firing off, cannons firing off, filled with money. That's when people
are going to be rushing in. Right now, people are on vacation. People ain't too focused. And
the market has surprised everybody.
Even during a bad time, right?
Even during a summer.
And that's just the presidency, in my opinion.
That's the bill passing, the money spending.
The money spending is a huge deal.
The more money they print, the more that M2 money supply is an accurate indicator of what the fuck's going to happen with crypto.
Excuse my language.
So I think my sentiment, again, is going to change a lot more over the next few months.
I think everyone should continue fading the public.
Whatever everybody's telling you to do, do the opposite.
You're going to win either 7, 8, 9, or 10 times out of 10 playing that way so that's how i look at if anyone in
here is like heavy into meme coins and wants to come up and talk about them please don't come up
here and shill us any garbage we don't want to hear it you'll probably be removed right away if
you do so but uh if you want to chat about them like like the Pumfunk token. If you're going to generally talk about meme coins, 100%, obviously we're not going to let people show their crappy meme coins, right?
That's the first thing.
The second thing is, like, books, I agree with a lot of what you said.
I do think, and I think, I mean, you talked about this, right?
We do think the market, especially the meme coin market, is going to fly in August, September time, probably more September time.
And so, therefore, things are going to fly.
People are going to, even people who aren't into meme coins
are going to start getting into meme coins.
I remember that guy, what's his name?
Is it Fred Kruger or somebody?
I forgot his name, that Bitcoin Maxie.
Like he was like, oh, I hate everything that's got to do
with altcoins and meme coins.
And then as soon as it happened,
he pulled out with his own meme coin,
a couple of his meme coins.
And a lot of people made a bag on that so i think right now obviously
the meme coin market is a lot more drier than normal but i do think that it's going to fly
i want to bring ian in on this conversation ian i know you are like you come from the
political sphere generally speaking but you've been heavily jumping into the meme coin market
what's what drove you or kind of inside you know drove you into the
meme coin market and gave you a bit of interest in it
in other words ian what the hell happened to you bro you went from the library
he became a freaking m'lady overnight or whatever that thing is
okay see he might not be there let's bring mor in. Morfitt, you dropped me a message.
You said that you made your a lot of bag back in the day on Doge.
And you do dabble in the meme coin market.
I know it's not your main thing
because I remember you telling me quite a few months ago,
like, listen, meme coins are good.
Like, dabble in, dabble out.
Obviously, stick with the main stuff.
But jump in.
Give us your thoughts.
Absolutely, Suleiman.
Yeah, and big time shout out to you for posting this amazing
space the number one crypto space on the number one platform uh so you know uh guys make sure to
follow so they meant to tap that follow button and repost the space uh i did make a lot uh on
doge or doggy coin uh you know elon musk's one of elon musk's favorite um so i do believe in
all coins but just like you
said, so they meant at the same time, though, from a long term perspective, I do also believe
and agree with some of the speakers and some of the people on the panel with, you know, Bitcoin
being the top dog. I think, you know, at the end of the day, you do want to have a little bit more
Bitcoin each and every single time you look back at the bag but when there is an opportunity in the altcoins you absolutely take advantage of
that and uh dogecoin was absolutely one of them i uh did make a massive massive return it was
all coin season back then it had gone from about half a penny to close to 35 cents and i think even
a little bit above that as well
and um so you know there's opportunities like that in these markets and that's what makes crypto
uh great but just like um i always warn people too because there's not that many um you know
not many coins could do that like what you saw there a lot of the coins are pumping dumps a lot
of the times you'll think it keeps going up it'll just dump on your head top so but yeah i'm a big fan of doge i think altcoin season
is here we're seeing xrp another one of my favorites um skyrocketing so that's really good
to see it hold here uh crypto bills from the government i think the government is uh quaking
their boots right now that's why they're coming up with a lot of these crypto bills. I don't think they have our best interests.
I think they're coming up with the Central Banking Digital Currency Act,
actually, so that no regular being makes these kind of utilities,
so that they may be the only ones who issue these kind of things.
Otherwise, I don't think it's going to release that.
They passed the anti-CBDC Act, so they're not going to make it.
Right, but I don't believe in this entity
when that with what they say and what they, you know, I really don't. I believe they are still
going to try to roll that out. I believe the reason why they're putting that out there with
this whole anti I mean, every time the government says something, we know with nearly every subject,
it's always the opposite. When they say anti-CBDC, we that they already have a John does against us and I think
Simon brought up a great point earlier
with the stable coins we have stable
coins like Tether that's already like acting
as the Federal Reserve of the
crypto market and printing trillions of dollars
you know digitally
if any one of us were able to do that
with our capabilities
print out millions and just buy Bitcoin
with it I'm sure we'd all
be locked up here so this is this is like another entity that's allowed uh there's there's ways
around that there's stable coin wars that are going on but i do believe uh eventually this
government because it hasn't been corrected ever since of what happened in 2020 that we are going
to face something very similar to what we saw in 2020, except this time they are going to try to trace it and track it to a digital ID
and a credit score. With Powell being out, that's also a clown show. I think Powell being out is an
absolute clown show. I think the whole thing is just a back and forth blabbery. Donald Trump and
Jerome Powell work also for the same entity at the end of the day.
They're both acting like they're at war, but truth be told, they're both screwing the American people over,
making trillions of dollars doing it by charging interest on top of it and by making it nearly unaffordable.
And with the dollar crashing, someone was stating earlier the dollar should crash.
That's what they want as well.
Powell and the Fed and Trump, all of them want the dollar to collapse because it does a lot of the things that he said.
A lot of the points he said were actually facts.
Now, with Bitcoin topped, I think Bitcoin, we could see it at $150, $160K before we see
a pullback, I believe, to probably $100K.
And then that would be the ultimate test right there.
We'd see from there what happens.
But that could be the newest bottom.
And that's because of inflation just being disastrous uh which is why i touched
on the dollar and powell earlier so nice space so they man massive massive space i'm just man i'm
just happy that we're doing some crypto here i haven't spoken on crypto in a very long time
all coin season is here you know a massive massive time to be alive and uh yeah you know those doge coins i'm still
watching that i think it is still going to hit a dollar soon uh probably in this run xrps i think
also skyrocketing xlm's another one xlm's another altcoin that we saw skyrocketing but meme wise
it's definitely for me it's always going to be dogecoin when it comes to the meme coins
you love your elon musk dogey right? Joe, I want to welcome you in.
I did invite you to the space because earlier on,
before we start talking about meme coins, which you missed,
we were talking about Bitcoin and we were talking about its utility
and we were talking about the financial market.
I wanted you in for more of that bit.
But that being said, obviously, when I saw you and listeners,
I didn't want to lose out on the chance of you coming up
and giving your thoughts.
So Joe, do give us your thoughts about um some of the conversation we've
had in terms of and i know you you probably want to jump in on some of the issues you may have had
on uh heard but it would just give us your thoughts on um you know what we spoke about
which is that has bitcoin topped the importance of bitcoin when you compare it to all coins but
go ahead joe i would love to hear your thoughts. Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
So I'll just tell you my view on this.
I think Bitcoin is trading and performing very differently than it has at any period in its history.
And I think the folks that are anchored to the, quote unquote, prior cycles
and think that Bitcoin is going to just roll over,
I think they're going to be sorely mistaken.
And the evidence for that is basically since the launch of the ETFs, you've had Bitcoin trading in solid ranges for multiple
months, then moving to a higher price tier. This is consistent with mature and developed marketplaces.
It's consistent with markets that have mature derivatives complex and markets that have
accurate ETFs. They're very reliable ETFs. The IBIT has one of the fastest growing accumulation of assets ever.
So for the people that think like magically at the end of this year, predictable halving cycle
top is coming in, I really doubt that. And I think this quote unquote cycle extends far
beyond 2025. I think it's going to run coincident with the greater macro cycle,
which is liquidity driven. I think it's going to trade alongsideident with the greater macro cycle, which is liquidity driven.
I think it's going to trade alongside equities.
It continues to have a very high correlation with equities.
And I think that the buyer on Wall Street is very different of the crypto buyer of yesteryear.
So I kind of put Bitcoin in its own separate class.
Obviously, very bullish Bitcoin.
I've been, you know, hodling Bitcoin since, you know, really 2015.
And I don't plan on stopping anytime soon.
I certainly don't plan on trying to time the quote-unquote cycle, because I think cycles are dead.
And somebody said earlier, and I agree with it, that we should fade the narrative, the commonplace narrative.
The commonplace narrative on crypto Twitter, Bitcoin Twitter, is that we're just going to peak out at some point in Q3, Q4 of this year, and we're just going to roll over.
If you're going to fade the commonplace narrative, that's what to do.
You should fade the narrative that we're just going to get some huge, massive drawdown. Somebody just said like
150 to 100K. I can assure you if we're breaching 150 and you have massive, I mean, just to give
one example, okay, a household name financial advisor, they're going to start recommending
all of their clients under 45 have a 5% Bitcoin allocation. That's going to be coming out in the
next several months.
So if you think that this is the market of yesteryear, I just think you're going to be
disappointed.
Now, on the other fronts, the issues of the meme coins and altcoins and everything, my
general takeaway is that you've really got two runners.
You've got the runners that are, and I don't buy these things really.
I'm not going to show individual names or anything, but I think you've got the runners that are, and I don't buy these things really, I'm not going to show individual names or anything, but I think you've got the runners that are the dino coins, right?
The coins that have been around for a long time that have established HODLer bases.
They're running alongside Bitcoin.
That's, you know, your XRPs, your Ethereum, etc.
And then you've got sort of your smaller cap, highly speculative tokens.
highly speculative tokens.
What I think is getting creamed and actually slaughtered,
if you look at some of the charts, are the tech altcoins,
the VC back altcoins, the coins that have tons of unlocks.
Some gentleman that was talking previously about the fact that
in the meme coin space, there's a bunch of people that lock up
and early creators of the meme coins, they lock up the supply
and have other closely related individuals, you know, dump those coins on the market.
To me, what's fascinating about that is that's got it what the VC world does.
VC locks up really early on.
They don't give a public a chance to really participate.
And what ends up happening is once they finally get these things to market and they're publicly traded, the VC unlocks start and they start dumping on retail's heads. The difference with the meme coins, the
reason I think retail is not stupid, I think they're really smart and excited about the meme
coins is because you get in at these extremely low valuations and they have room to run.
Whereas some of the tech alts, okay, they come in, you're already at a $20 billion or $15 billion
market clap with very little room to run. So I think the meme coin is a
natural evolution to the ICO bubble. I think it is a meme coin bubble that is going to persist for
the foreseeable future. And in many respects, the retail want to be able to buy things at low
valuations. You got to remember in 2016, when ETH was launched on Coinbase, ETH came in to them on
at a valuation under a billion dollars.
You could have bought ETH at a market cap under a billion dollars.
Every major tech VC-backed alt that supposedly creates the next best thing since sliced bread,
they come at like 10, 15 billion dollar market caps.
So there's no room to run.
And I'm not saying buying these things, but I think it's a natural evolution of the space to want to get in at very low valuations so they could 100x or 50x or
gamble on these things. So I expect to continue. I expect the meme coin bubble to get much,
much bigger. And I think we're just getting started for a very, very favorable fall.
Joe, I loved what you said, and I do want to expand on it more. So the next time we do a crypto space, which hopefully should be early next week, I'm definitely going to what you said and i do want to expand on it more so the next time we do a crypto space
which hopefully should be early next week i'm definitely going to invite you on and we'll have
a more longer in-depth conversation about this because i think the public just really do benefit
from these details and hence why i really enjoyed this space in the sense of we went into a significant
amount of details about a lot of the issues you spoke about in bitcoin i think people have learned
a lot so i'm really happy about the way the space has gone.
I do want to bring Jamie in
because I know he's been requesting for a while.
He came up and I feel a bit bad
that he didn't get a chance to speak.
So Jamie, do jump in with your thoughts
on anything you want to speak about in terms of this.
And then we'll get Prometheus in
and then we'll see how it goes.
But go ahead, Jamie.
Jamie there.
Jamie Miner. Okayimmy's are there prometheus uh jump in with your thoughts
brother thanks for joining us hey silly thanks for having me and thanks for doing a crypto space
finally i've been looking forward to this and it's been uh great so far well you've seen it
the king of twitter when he starts to decides to do crypto he just takes over this is what we do
king of twitter when he starts to decides to do crypto he just takes over this is what we do
amen bro yeah no you're absolutely taking over and uh lots of golden nuggets here for our audience
uh really appreciate what you just said joe uh as well i believe that you know there there are many
different kinds of actors in this space and if you're just a general member of the public, I'm going to start with you.
If you don't deeply follow these markets, understand technology and trends and all these
dimensions, please just stick to Bitcoin. It's the simple, stupid that that you can just buy and you can ensure that you have a growing asset
class over the years and have generational wealth okay having said this all right we did see a 30
percent increase in xrp's value all right this is this is a phenomenal jump and xrp is not a meme
coin it's a low to be honest now promethe i made a lot of bug on xrp
the last uh week or so and just leverage it hard bro i'm making some bad money but go ahead
no me too man i've got a lot of capital there as well and and what we're going to see now is that
you know as there's more institutional adaptation of this uh asset, you have to realize that there is a game theory
dynamic that's taking place. So in game theory, there's unique trends that occur when you have
a finite set of assets and a finite set of moves on the board. So in this case, you have the United States pioneering, essentially,
the crypto industry, bringing in all this legislation. I love the rant the gentleman
gave earlier about, you know, a lot of this stuff may be backdoor. So I'm not just giving a,
you know, whitewash green light over all the, you know, acts that are getting passed,
like Genius Act and everything. Having said this, all right,
I also appreciate the fact
that we have a pro crypto administration
compared to the ridiculous continuous lawsuits
and couldn't even establish what a security is
and what a currency is administration
that we had under the last, yeah, SEC chair,
whose name we shall not mention, okay?
He who shall not be named.
We're gonna treat him like Voldemort here.
But this is significant, okay?
We are seeing massive innovation,
massive capital pour into this space.
And what's really interesting, at least for me, is looking at it from, again, this game theory perspective.
So very soon you're going to see more and more sovereign nation states announcing their strategic crypto reserves.
Okay, so we had Pakistan recently, Suley.
Pakistan recently, Sully, they've started their Bitcoin strategic reserve, right? I'm looking
They've started their Bitcoin strategic reserve, right?
into advising the Bangladesh bank and others to do the same thing. And Bhutan has been
in this game for quite some time. So has Ecuador. And these nations that have been early investors
in this space, especially in Bitcoin, Bitcoin mining with Bhutan, who has one of the largest sovereign reserves in the world
for a very small nation, by the way. And El Salvador, notice that their credit rating
has massively gone up, right? You have international capital coming into these, especially El Salvador,
coming in by hundreds of billions at this point. And many, many institutional players realizing that, right, these economies are going to be the Singapore's, the major growers of the next century.
as more and more of these sovereigns and these large money manager, asset manager firms announce,
you are going to see the correlation in price action. And so we're going to see, as far as I'm
concerned, by 2028, we're going to see a super cycle. This is a super cycle that we're in, especially for some of the major blue chip alts.
Bitcoin for sure.
Okay.
Bitcoin will probably do another 2, 3 X.
I'd say by...
If you could just wrap up in five seconds, because we do need to...
I'll just wrap up the thought here.
Okay.
But I think we're going to see 50, 100 Xs on some of the blue chip alts, including, you
know, your Cardano's, your
Ripple's and so on. I think we're going to see major advances, the likes of which we haven't
seen in this marketplace before. But that's just an introductory statement. I can go way deep into
like real world assets and many other things that are coming into this space. But I'll land my
thoughts there for the moment. And listen, none of this is financial advice. Obviously, many people on the speaker panel
have given their opinions,
their ideas and their thoughts
and their perspectives.
And people are given in-depth understanding
of Bitcoin and various other things.
Just take that with it, what you want.
Use the information, how you see fit
and then basically make decisions based on that.
Everyone's given their own personal opinion.
Obviously, no one's a financial advisor.
I think we've got a great space.
I think we've gone on for a good three hours.
I think the plan was only an hour or two,
but it's been such a golden space
that we kept it going
because people were given such wealth of information.
We have speakers better than financial advisors on here.
Exactly, my G.
We've got people who are full of diamonds and gold
when it comes to information.
So we're just giving you gold, guys.
Just take it how you've received it.
The only space on X, which is now going to be the biggest crypto space,
is the biggest organic crypto space on X.
Obviously, you have people who've got bigger spaces when they're bought.
But without buying, we are the biggest spaces on X.
We are fully taken over.
These are going to be regular spaces, especially from next week.
Probably won't have a space
during Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
And the reason for that is
unless there's breaking news,
if there's some major breaking news,
crypto related,
we will start a space immediately.
I want to thank Books
for co-hosting this space.
I appreciate you, bro.
I got one piece of feedback for you.
I don't like we're gonna take over.
I think we took over today.
Golden, listen my piece.
I think we took over, Suleiman. we took over sulaiman full full-on take
over has happened my g i listen i'll exist you know i'm really really wrong but i will redefine
what i said there full-on takeover has happened appreciate appreciate you books i think it's been
a golden space i know it's been a golden space appreciate all the listeners who came to the
space put your notifications on these spaces are going to happen regularly.
We're going to have great people with great knowledge in these information.
We'll get big guests on.
We'll have it all.
We'll take it over.
We've taken it over,
but we're going to lock it down
where you continue to get information,
continue to get knowledge.
Appreciate all the panelists.
I think the panelists who came on today were golden.
They give some great knowledge and great information.
So I appreciate every single one of them.
We'll be back next week early. Watch out because we can start at any time and likely
going to be early next week we'll decide when it's going to be so watch out for that and then
there'll be regular spaces i'll be back with my normal politics space obviously in case people
think wait so these don't have crypto space has it given up on politics that'll never ever happen
we already control politics we also already run politics, the biggest spaces.
And so we continue on with that. That politics space probably going to start in the next 45
minutes or so. So appreciate every single person who came to the space. And we'll see you again
early next week. So appreciate you guys joining in. Appreciate you guys listening. And for sure,
we will see you next time.
