Hello, hello, we're gonna get started really soon here with Archway and Gonna wait like a minute or two to let some of the team roll in and some of the people that are like popping up to the stage if there's anybody else that needs the pop of the stage Please pop your hand up to speak I'm gonna
bring you up here and we can start to get all of the speakers and everybody up on the stage. While we're doing that, I'm Brian Colligan from Alpha Growth. Today we're going to meet with a Cosmos team launched called Archway. They're the revolutionizing CSR, how developers can get
I'll let the team speak more about it for them on our side. Alpha growth. We help projects and ecosystems get connected in the form of grants and RFPs.
If you're interested in your developer or your project and you're trying to figure out which chain to build on or what needs to be built in the crypto ecosystem, we help match people to do that. And let me bring some people up here.
Crypto Kim, who else on our your side needs to be brought up?
So Adrian will indeed brought up. He is Emperor underscore J.M.
- See you in here? - He is, yes, I can see him.
I don't think I see him. Adrian Thompson.
Adrian, we just invited Adrian to come up to speak.
Very cool. Adrian, how are you? Oh, he's stuck in that thing.
>> How are you? >> Doing great. >> We do this. You guys are doing something cool. In terms of the cost, but just like cool in general about some of the
mental, like defy, blockchain consensus primitives that you're building out there. So if you want to want to open up, get started, or are we waiting for Adrian? Looks like he's a little trouble connecting. But if you're ready to get started, we can get started, and maybe Adrian can hop out and hop back in, and we'll get him back up here.
Yeah, sure. No, I'm happy to start whenever you want me to kind of go over the high level what archway is I can start there probably. Absolutely. That would be great. I think it's like the best place to start. Cool. Yeah. So really from a high level, what I would say archway is it's one.
generalize layer one smart contract platform. So it's really meant to be very flexible allow builders to design their own smart contracts and build their own DAPs. It's built on the Cosmos SDK and it utilizes Cosmos so it supports smart contract languages like Rust
Mainly go and things like TypeScript. So it's really just a really flexible platform. But the goal of it really is to build something that is sustainable both economically and from a developer perspective, providing them with the value that they create.
That's just high level I'd say what it is. And the core contributors and the company I work for, or one of the core contributors in the company I work for is five labs. So we're this one of the software development teams working on our trade. And that's really where the idea was kind of incubated with this team. It's really talented team.
a lot of developers from Ignite and Tenderman and our founder Griffin actually was part of the product team at Consensus during the Ethereum launch. So a lot of experience on this team, a lot of really talented people and I think we have a really good idea for core concept at our joint.
Yeah, so let's dive into that like I think it's really cool, but I want to hear from you like what's what's the problem you guys are solving and you know what makes archway super unique Yeah, no, that's that's a great question and I kind of alluded to it a little bit so I'd say there's a few problems were really
trying to solve. The first would be really the lack of economic ingenuity in the cosmos. We've taken a lot of the same models and copy and pasted them into different applications without really thinking about whether these models make a lot of sense. So one core thing we've done with the archery protocols really looked at the
economic side of things like token emissions, what happens when a transaction occurs in terms of the gas and really tried to design a protocol that's sustainable from an economic standpoint. So that means low inflation and then we also have added counter inflationary measures.
through our gas mechanism, which is similar to what Ethereum is done with EIP on 1559. And then secondarily, which I would say is really the core value prop of archway is that we're really trying to align the incentives by creating mechanisms that will distribute the value from the layer one where the
value is accrued to the DAP level where the value is actually being created. So right now there's no real way for most developers to actually get value out of the product they create outside of either issuing a token and selling it or consistently raising or going for grants.
We designed a few mechanisms to help facilitate that value being pushed down to the layer 2, which we'll talk about here a little bit later. And the same for public goods. There's no real way for public goods to accrue value through their usage. Therefore, they're very hard to
maintain. They require teams to either go through grants consistently or to raise funds basically to provide the operational support for these public goods. So we wanted to build a protocol that has ways baked into the protocol itself to help really support and fund these
types of things like public goods and really just make sure that developers are being made whole because really for an app to be successful or any blockchain to be successful, I'm in my eyes and needs to have quality applications and people building those are the developers so I think it's important that they're rewarded. Hey quick question on that. I think it's
Sorry Brian, hey Joe from Alpreth here. I'm curious what you know what some of those I guess in your mind if you could have any kind of projects building like anything you've seen in the entire web through ecosystem that you'd like to see building on our trail I'm curious to hear what that might look like
Yeah, I would say one of the biggest things are tooling in general, like any sort of public infrastructure that's being utilized often. So things like, you know, oracles or I mean, defy applications, I think will be very cool and there will be really unique things you can
do with the incentive models. But I would say tooling is actually going to be really, really big. A lot of things like Oracle's require a lot of transactions, a lot of smart contract interactions. And on ArtShow, you'll be earning rewards from each one of those. So that's one use case I would say is very high in my list. And then
Things like gaming, I think we'll have a lot of use. Again, it's just high transactions, a lot of smart contract interactions. Therefore, you're again earning a lot of rewards, which you can either utilize for your team, your DAP, or even redistribute to users, or even some
So that they don't need to use, you know, for example, arch token to use the network their first time. So I guess there's a lot of different use cases. What I'm curious to see is what the community comes up with that I haven't thought about because that's going to be where the real innovative ideas come from.
Yeah, I think you're running into like a really interesting problem like tragedy of the commons when it comes to public goods You know there's there's a there's a drama that one of our clients is in currently I don't want to go into the the details, but it's essentially like who should fund open
source code. And I feel like that's kind of one of the problems that you're solving. It's hard to incentivize public goods, it's hard to incentivize the growth of like, you know, in real world terms, it's like who should pay for the roads, right, that are traveled.
And you guys are trying to solve that problem in a pretty unique way, right? Yeah, I would say that's a fair way to put it because the way we see it is that we agree public goods should be should be funded in some way. So we're kind of seeing it one of those methods being
inflation. That's a great way to help fund public goods. Now we understand security is extremely important. So we would never want to direct inflation away from the validators to a point where they're no longer incentivized to secure the chain. But you have to also weigh the fact that without any applications or
use cases on a chain, you're really not securing anything, right? So there's this balance of you need to have applications and use cases on chain to drive traffic to drive TBL so that you have something to secure. So taking a small piece of inflation and redirecting that towards like
public goods or DAPS, we believe will be a really good flywheel to get people in centralized to want to keep building, keep maintaining public infrastructure without having to really give up cash, so to speak, or have them go out and ask for grants or raise capital.
Okay, what do you think about the the defy llama drama of recent? I'm I'm vaguely familiar with what's going on. It sounds like One team ever wants to launch a token and the rest do not agree
Yeah, I mean, like this is a great example, I think, of kind of like the problem you're solving. In the last couple days, there's been kind of like a founder fight. DeFi Lama historically has been paid by grants, get quit in foundation, and public goods funding.
pretty much out of money and one of the people on the team was like, "Hey, we gotta get paid." And so now there's kind of like this issue of how does DeFi want me to get paid? Do they get paid for through public funding and grants? Do they put advertising? Should they launch a token and start pulling? They got some like art side gig like
kind of like funding routes with like their RPC nodes and their infrastructure services, but the public good of DeFi Lama currently does not have a business model and would be interesting to get you like in an archway driven world, how would you guys solve that?
Well, what's cool about Archer is you don't necessarily need a token, which I think is kind of what you're getting at is that you can earn just from people utilizing their product. So I guess what the phyllomic could do is they could have some sort of gateway to utilizing their product that requires a smart contract.
And then they could actually add a
smart contract premium on top of that, which is one of our mechanisms of distributing the value from the layer 1 to layer 2, which is basically smart contract premium is a fee that's set on top of the minimum gas necessary to complete a transaction. And 100% of that additional fee goes to
the developers or to wherever they decide to route that. It could be a smart contract or an address or multiple addresses. But the idea would be that if ILama could set a minimum amount that they're willing to accept for someone to utilize their product and they would be able to collect that every time someone uses it.
So this creates an actual funding model for them, right? They no longer have to charge a subscription or issue a token. They can basically just have people interact with the contract every time they want to utilize the product and that alone should generate some sort of, you know, return, renumeration of tokens.
All right, so let's let's let's solution this out using Archway as a new idea as a as a fun, you know, thought experiment. Okay, so we do that. We attach Archway to the CDN. We attach Archway to the API calls and have some like nominal gas fee for every page layer.
And now you have to have Archway token in the wallet to interact with DeFi Lama and it takes some contract interaction and on every query call, every API call, every page load, you pay a little bit of Archway token and gas to load the page.
Yeah, and it may require some sort of proxy because I don't believe just a query alone will will create value from the archway blockchain. I think it needs to be some sort the way I put it like a right function right needs to change the state. So they could set up like a contract though that would basically do something
to allow the user to view that page or to get access to a password to view something. There's a lot different mechanisms you could use to make this work, but really just adding a smart contract to the workflow where it's communicating with darsha blockchain will
So there's definitely ways you could even do some sort of like subscription type model where there's access for X amount of time. That requires some deeper integrations, but they really could go a lot of different ways with how to gate their website or gate their product just by using a smart contract through.
So fundamentally, you don't necessarily, if the smart contract is on archway, you just the inherent use of writing to the state, you could then extract some fees and some developer fees for that public
good. You wouldn't even necessarily need a game just by writing and you wouldn't necessarily need it for reading. So I guess that's the important feature here is if you're reading the blockchain which kind of like defile the law must real purposes
is reading the data. But if you wanted to write your data to DeepVilama into their database and be presented, it's almost like maybe on that side you could have an adapter that then wrote to a state machine
and every time they write, and then every single deep-by-project would inherently want that exposure and write to the chain. So maybe on that side, you could have a contract. Yeah, that's actually an interesting way to think about it indefinitely, plausible.
Cool, I think we just solved the if I lamas problem. Let's let's wait about it. Let's get him in here and let's get him on our track. Hey, I would I would love to have the very every great Very cool. All right, so you talked a little bit about this but you know the underlying technologies that you guys are using to get started and
And you know, where are you guys based off? I think you said like, Cosmism, Tendermint, you know, what technology is very easy. Yeah, so that's correct. So, so we're utilizing Cosmism, we're built on the Cosmos SDK utilizing Tendermint. So, spot on there.
I'm obviously implementing IBC and then ideally will I assume I hope I may not but I can't confirm so hopefully by may not but shortly after if not we'll have ICA capabilities and I think that alone will open up a lot of opportunities for archway to become
Somewhat of the hub of the Cosmos first smart contracts and apps because you could essentially host your contracts or deploy them on Archeway and utilize ICA to essentially communicate with other blockchains and perform actions on other blockchains of the NEO system through
IBC, but still have that initial interaction take place on archway where you're earning. So now it becomes really the most advantageous to how is your contract on archway compared to any other network, even if it is going to a different network to let's say swap or stay.
Can we talk a little bit about the reward system in terms of kind of, you know,
Why, I guess, you know, we already covered a little bit of Y Archway, but, you know, what everybody, you know, what everybody always asks us is, you know, what makes you guys better.
in terms of incentives because we've got dozens and dozens of different incentive programs. Is there anything that really stands out about the archway reward system?
Yeah, and that's a great question because a lot of times when I speak to people about art to a they're aware of I would say one of the three mechanisms we have to to essentially incentivize and reward developers. And that would be the gas rebates or fee split. So that there's essentially three ways that were you
where utilizing to try and take the value capture of the layer one and distribute it down. And one is the fee split, which a few other chains have also implemented something similar. My one take on that would be that I'm not sure based on the inherent low gas of the cosmos. I'm not sure whether
are not a fee split alone will be significant enough incentive for a developer unless they create a very, very high usage application or tool. You're going to need high, really a high amount of executions on your contract to earn from a fee split alone. So what we did is then we created
other mechanisms to distribute that value to the layer to or to the DAPS where the actual value is being created. And that's where I think we're unique. And those two things are through inflation and through those smart contract premiums. So a portion of the inflation will be directed towards smart contract developers and applications.
So the more often that you're being your contracts are being used, or you're that's being used, the more of the inflation that's your mark for developers will go to that contract. But what I think is the most important thing is that you're going to have to be able to
unique part of it is the fee. So the smart contract premium because it really allows the developers to set the amount they're willing to accept for someone to interact with their contractor, use their application. So you can set a minimum fee. So you know exactly what you're going to get every time someone do you realize your contract.
And so that you can kind of plan for for the future, right? You can fund operations, pay salaries, payroll, reinvest into the protocol. There's so many different things you can do by having this ability to set a fee that 100% goes back to the developer. If you have a really, really
unique application that has high demand. You can charge a lot more for it and people will be willing to pay it. And therefore you should be able to collect those fees yourself and not have to share them with validators who had really no part in the application and are already being incentivized by the inflation anyway.
Okay, yeah, that is super interesting and Brian and I were just talking about this the other day as you know the whole you know the delegate and the validating and the inflation that whole thing is you know something that not a lot of people really understand which is fine no one needs to understand how all that works but I appreciate the
the reverse cell on the fysplit and then how you guys have kind of countered that. So I am a little bit curious though how it actually works in terms of how is it determined where the inflation is going to get delegated so to say.
So it's going to be based at least for the inflation piece of it. I think it's a set percent of the inflation is going to go to developers and the I believe it's 20% or 25 and I don't know if we've officially finalized that quite yet. But the idea is that it'll be distributed to develop
But where that gets tricky is then there's obviously vectors for attack. You could spam the network. You could do really inefficient contracts. But we personally just don't think that would be much of an issue because it's essentially free.
market economy. So if someone's charging way too much or building really inefficient contracts, someone's just going to take your contract and make it more efficient. And then people are very good point. Very, very good point. Yeah. So that's that's solid. So if someone's, you know, really profiting and making a ton of money off of this,
Someone's going to come in and make it slightly more efficient and they're going to be the ones we take over and they'll just keep going until we get to this equilibrium where the users feel like they're getting the value that they should and the developers are also feel like they're receiving the value they should. So we think it just creates a lot of competition to create efficient quality depth.
or smart contract. Well that's killer. I'm glad you guys have obviously thought this through. Is there anything in the works or you know was part of the you know the drawing board of all this with having the community decide you know and more of kind of like a
dare I say voter escrow, esc model of deciding where the inflation goes. To which to which gaps to which developers get the lion's share of based on the community votes in the R2 ecosystem is that something you guys at all explored.
Yeah, no, we definitely have. And I'll say the community has the ability to change a lot of the parameters that are really driving our rewards. So governance can change a lot of things. They could potentially pick us up.
a spot to direct rewards if they chose. But as it sits now, I believe it's based on essentially a calculation done on chain that will distribute the amounts. But of course, like I said, through governance a lot of these parameters can be changed.
Yeah, I'm really excited about this. Okay, so other, I guess other questions on, you know, rewards where, you know, how can I.
How are they received? How does all that work? And then the very most important question that I'm sure Brian will be excited I ask here is what can I do with my rewards?
So I will speak to what we can do with the rewards. Do you mind trying to bring up
Adrian again, because I think he could probably better explain the mechanics.
of how to get their words. Yeah, but yeah, we're back channeling in the background. It seems like the Twitter, the new Twitter APK on Android, specifically is rugged people from joining it as a speaker to Twitter spaces. You have to upload an old Android APK to be able to
come up and speak. So, you know, we messaged your team in the background. It's an ongoing issue and problem. And we've invited him a couple of times and, you know, hopefully he can get him back up here. But that may not be possible, just, you know, technical restrictions.
which is like we can also do this again in the future. Yeah, no, but I can speak to at least a part of that question. So for example, what could these be used for? There's I mean, it's really endless, right? It's up to whoever created the contract to decide what they want to do with the fees that they collect.
either through the split, through the smart contract premium or inflation. It's all up to the actual contract owner or controller to decide. But what I think are some cool use cases would be, for example, an AMM could refill their own incentive pools, right? Instead of having to have external
You could use the rewards to refill those incentive pools. You could also use the rewards to fill a fee grant, which would basically allow users to utilize an application for free the first time. So let's say you go to use a DAX or an AMM.
on Archway, you're going to need Archway to do your first transaction. Well, if you don't have any, the only way to get it is to go to another Dex or Centralize Exchange and get Arch. Well, that's not a good user experience. You make them leave your ecosystem to get started. So you could use rewards to perpetually refill these fee grants
So that any time a user goes to use the application, the first time they will not have this bad user experience. They can swap without the gas and then just get started with their with their journey through the ecosystem. So I think that's another really good use case. I'm in then another one just just treasury. Imagine a Dow whose tokens only
use cases actually just governance right that's the only thing it does is vote and you don't really have to worry about the value prop because there'll be intrinsic value building up in the treasury from the rewards being earned by that Dow so if that Dow releases some sort of project application tooling what what have you
and it's earning from our incentive mechanisms, they're essentially building up treasury to that token and creating intrinsic value. And it doesn't have to stay in arch. They could swap it into stables, into whatever asset they want once it's in their treasury. But you're earning those rewards by people utilizing your contracts, which I think is a cool concept.
So there's another problem too that's not necessarily like on-chain public goods where I think you might be starting to touch on where which is like how do you get on ramps and off ramps paid right so you have like like transact and rent network if you're going to be like buying it's like okay you have
they usually generally charge fees in terms of like buying on chain, you know, on ramps, but then you also have the offering problem or these analytic dashboards like the deep dilemmas or these kind of like other infrastructure projects that start to interact with it. I think there's a lot of touch points here that
aren't just with the on-chain dApps itself, but it also feels like the infrastructure, the on-ramps, and the off-ramps also have an opportunity to start collecting fees and creating new mechanism designs to earn revenue. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. They'll have to essentially figure out how to utilize
on chain smart contracts to either gain access to their product off chain, whether that's through NFT gating or what have you, but really what you could do is exactly what you said. You can monetize the use of your off chain product just by forcing an interaction with the smart contract along that workflow.
One of the most interesting things I've heard recently around some of this is going to get deep in the weeds cosmos and interchanged security and the IBC was like neutrons launching of a fee marketplace for relayers. Currently the relayers take that transaction on their own.
and to like some extent when a like a transact or an on-ramp network, you know, you purchase the crypto and it appears in your wallet on chain, they're inherently driving the cost of that.
We're bearing the cost of that gas fee. It seems like these are starting to bleed in together. You can just embed it into the relay or contract or you can just embed it to the onboarding contract. It almost would be like two
You could have multiple different onboarding solutions and on ramp solutions or offer ramp solutions that are constantly battling each other on contract fees. The next question I would arise was,
in a world like that, wouldn't the commoditization of certain contracts in certain dApps then be commodified and then it would be a race to the bottom of fees? Yeah, I would say that there's definitely a race to have the most efficient fees for sure, but I would say a
But there's always going to be some level of fees that people are willing to pay for service. So I don't think it'll be a race to zero necessarily, but I do think it'd be efficient fees for the user, which is great from the user side. And yeah, and I do think that relayer is getting funded is a huge problem right now.
A lot of the real layers are basically doing it out of the goodness of their heart and are taking basically operating at a loss to to provide relaying services. And as we all know, IBC is one of them, you know, core components of what makes the cosmos so I guess unique. And so we need to
support that, I think, ecosystem-wide. But I'm trying to think of ways myself of how we could utilize the incentive model of Artrade to do that. Because I would be really cool to have a way for either the relayers themselves or even the protocol to accrue some sort of
rewards that are strictly for relayers to ensure that they are at least breaking even. But yeah, that's still needs to be thought off further, I guess, on Mayan, but definitely something I've thought about.
And actually just tweeted about a few days ago was, how do we create a mechanism to basically incentivize relays? Because that's a big piece missing in my eyes in general.
And then there also seems to be that what you have some kind of like throttling mechanism in there that is also also good. Some of these like contract fees depending upon the size of the contract fees. Things like wash trading and from a defile.
use case might also be countered if you have enough gas fees on percentage rewards or something like that within the swapping mechanisms. Yeah, and so there's going to, I mean, strictly from the attack vector standpoint, you will not be able to spend
the network in terms of just creating a bunch of contracts to try to earn rewards, it will not be profitable to the attacker. So we've thought about that portion of it and I'm sure Eric, who's in the audience right now, could speak to a much better. He's part of our tokenomics. I actually
is the lead tokenomics designer for the protocol. But yeah, there's definitely we've thought about those type of vectors and how to prevent them, but even wash trading for example on a DAX or AMM. Let's say it is slightly profitable and they're continuing
to just do wall-stating because they see it as a way to accruate value. Let's still bring transactions to the chain. It's still filling up blocks. So from our perspective, I don't know if that becomes an issue unless it were to somehow get to the point where it's congestion the entire network.
And again, we have a gas structure set up so that as those blocks get more full, it becomes increasingly more expensive to do transactions. So there will not be much incentive for someone to just spam the network or try to wash straight continuously. Because eventually it will become a loss.
Can you very briefly speak on the security of Artway if there's been, if you don't want you to self-incriminate, but if there's been any incidences that people should be worried about or if in general everything's been pretty solid?
No, it's been very solid. Like I said, I can't speak to anything specifically. I think that's something Adrian is going to touch on. But I will say that for my experience with the team, I have not seen anything that stood out.
out to me has a huge red flag or a risk and the team itself is extremely talented. As I mentioned, most of them came from either Tendermint or Night. So we're part of that kind of core team working on the cosmos, even
prior to joining Ardway. So I think they've got a lot of experience with not only SDK, but with Cosmos and what they're building. So I'm very confident that the product we put out will be in great shape coming that
Awesome awesome. That's good to hear. Okay, let's get excited here. What are you excited about? What DAPS in particular? Maybe some alpha you can share or just some teams that you know are going to be building on our way that you really pumped up about.
Yeah, there's like, I guess a couple that I'm most excited about our one is Astro Vault. And so Eric, who is also our tokenomics lead is building out Astro Vault, which is a hybrid AMM and Dow. And so they're, they're taking a unique approach to it. They're really focusing on the sustainability.
of their actual AMM. So a lot of what we see today is they collect some fees and distribute them to LPs, but they don't really accrue value for the actual protocol or the DEX. So therefore they have to constantly incentivize liquidity to come provide so that people have an essentially
have liquidity to use. That requires you to pay incentives and really perpetually to keep that mercenary capital. So what they're trying to do with their AMM is they've designed it so that they're going to actually accrue value, so protocol liquidity, through
basically staking derivatives yield. And by doing so, they're going to accrue in a value over time that ideally the goal be to not have to incentivize pools at all because all the liquid deprovision is provided by the protocol themselves or the DAO. So that's the overall goal. I like
Eric speak a little bit more to that. And then right after I guess named the other two I'm excited about which one is called peer swap. And it's essentially a peer-to-peer swap, but what I think is cool is that it's set up to allow like easily set up to easily facilitate OTC deals.
trade without slippage if you know exactly what you want and what you're willing to accept. You could fundraise or do an IDO through a platform like peer to peer without having to pay high fees like you would for a list on any sort of public launch pad. And then you also can purchase
Integrating with applications to create a really good user experience But not only that, but so you can actually access all your applications in one spot directly from there wallet at any point, you know, anywhere That's a big issue that I've had in the space is prior to mobile wallets really starting to pop up
up up, it was basically your desktop to perform any sort of transactions or interact with the map. And that's extremely limiting for people who are not always at their computer. So I think having a native wallet that has all the applications really directly integrated will make a much better user experience overall.
And yeah, Eric expand on astrovolts. I really do think astrovolts is one of the premier products in the cosmos or will be and he has probably a lot more to say about it than I do.
Thanks, Sam from Guys Awesome Space. I'm actually absolutely killing it, like always. First, I wanted to hop up. You guys are talking about wash trading and doing it profitably. Just to kind of shut that down. Yes, I know you guys will see like, oh, they get gas rebates. Plus, there's inflation reserve. There's not a lot of
usage is going to be breakable. I'm really good at breaking things. This is not breakable. So the best, the most profitable you can make it is if you are the developer and you're getting all of your awards back 100% of what you spent. But that will only work if so
little of the actual block space is sold and even then you'll be burning arch tokens so it would still be good for the protocol so you can't do it profitably. Then as things do get congested as we are able to sell more of our block space now eventually less than 100% of what is spent on gas will go to developers and you'll experience
net deflation from the submissions. So the protocol is safe. It can only be operated for free or gamified in that way. In a way that's not profitable, that still is good for the protocol. And then as it expands, it's no longer free to exercise that opportunity.
Thank you. So question for you guys here. What do you want Archway to be known as? We're known for in five years. You know looking back hopefully this crypto wins obviously but what do you you know how do
you want our Twitter to really stick out. So for me, I wanted to be known as really the hub for applications and smart contract deploying, so tooling, anything like that. I think five years from now, people will realize that the mechanism we created
does create a nice flywheel effect where you're incentivizing the people building, they'll continue to build good products, which will attract users. Then users will obviously bring more TVL and more transactions to the chain. But secondarily, I would like to be known as a forward looking innovative protocol that took
the first principles approach at what they're building and didn't necessarily just copy what had been being built in the ecosystem and essentially created a whole new paradigm of how we should look at one the economic sustainability of protocols, so the tokenomics and inflation, and then also how we incentivize
really all the overhead of a chain, whether that be a developer, whether that be a validator, or even just incentivizing users through yields. So I think we took a really unique approach and I hope that five years from now people look back and say, wow, they're way ahead of their time with what they built.
Yeah, and then explaining on that I vision archway being the user experience for the entire cost most ecosystem as interchange queries as interchange accounts as interchange applications grow grow more established. It makes a lot more sense
to have one app or one user interface that users regularly interact with. Now people who are building apps on other networks, on other layer ones and cosmos can have a really amonitizable access point for their app where they can charge a premium that then covers gas elsewhere.
And it really, through AppChains, allows archway to scale indefinitely. And it's almost like every single other layer one can be a sister chain while providing the best user experience for users and building out something economically viable that hasn't been done yet.
I love the vision. That's killer, guys. Okay, so in terms of how you're going to get there, what kind of partnerships or collaborations is our toy looking for in the short term?
I would say we're looking for partners who share our ethos, whether that be that, you know, developers are under, I guess, incentivized or that, you know, the economics of the cosmos in general are not sustainable. So we're looking for people who kind of
share our vision in that sense because being aligned on that is key to understanding our choice value prop. If you don't believe that the current token on the system is being used and the casements are broken or that people and developers are being fairly incentivized, then you're probably not going to see the
value of Artrue, but for the people who are involved in the space deeply and understand some of these issues, I think Artrue is kind of a breath of fresh air and kind of shows you what you can do when you're being incentivized properly. So I'm hoping more people kind of come to terms with
what we're seeing in the cosmos is not necessarily sustainable. We see tons of tokens kind of trail off into relevancy as inflation continues to be higher than demand. But yeah, only time will tell, but the way we'll do that is just by, you know, continually putting out the best products and providing the best user experience.
That's incredible. I think Brian would have quite a bit to say about the tokenomics of cosmos. We've been down that road before.
other than, you know, we talked about a lot of different things, but what are some, you know, are there any questions that we didn't ask you that you wish we would have? Um, I'll have to top my head, I guess.
Maybe about our hackathon that we're hosting right now. We have a virtual hackathon with Dora Hacks, which is a cool opportunity for people to get involved with their apps, or at least with the ecosystem by submitting their apps. And there's a million
arch tokens that are up for prizes. So, for different tracks that you can submit your your applications to, the tracks I think are DeFi, NFTs, infrastructure and tooling, and then Dow's. So we think Dow's have a really unique use
case on Arduay because of our incentive model so that will be a track that we're. I'll be very interested to see what is submitted. But yeah, it's a virtual hackathon so you don't have to be there in person and it runs through April 24th so it's still plenty of time to.
Yeah, what got you, I mean, I'm kind of curious on how you guys gave it together on how you can find how you guys found other people that were like pro-cosmos, but not as hyped about the tokenomics and how everybody on your team kind of arrived at this
conclusion and compiled into Archway. I'm curious how you would have you guys corralled your team on that. And then I got some hackathon questions too. Yeah, no, I can answer that question. No problem. So I think it starts with just the tone at the top, right? So so Griffin, the founder of Fire Labs,
He was essentially part of the product team at Ethereum when they launched ETH originally. He's part of the product team at consensus when they launched ETH. And so he has a ton of experience in this space and he started off as a developer and he just noticed that a lot of the people who were part of that core
they're in team are tired, you know, their whales at this point, they have no reason to contribute further to the ecosystem. Meanwhile, a lot of the people who are, you know, on the ground floor working didn't receive as much value. So from from that point on, I feel like he noticed that there was a gap between the value
where it's created and where it's being accrued. So that's where the overall vision came from, which was from Griffin. So when he was, you know, finding his team, I think he would just ask people about, you know, how they felt about developers being incentivized or if they thought the fat protocol thesis was fair. And from there, you start to see who the
people are aligned with you and who don't. But overall, I think a lot of people just believed in Griffin as a leader and then also in what we were building as a protocol. So maybe they didn't necessarily understand the economics or what the real issues were, but they did understand that there was a problem being solved by our trade.
a lot of people on board, but I would say the biggest thing is just convincing people, explaining to them the problems, the issues that we're seeing in front of us and how RJ will fix them. And I found that's been the most significant way of getting people on board and wanting to work with RJ and aligning with our ethos.
That's really cool. I just try to figure out if it was a discord rebellion or how do you get the rebels together and be like, "Okay, this is a problem." It's always really hard, especially within decentralized communities. You don't want to be a fud spreader, but there are real problems.
and a lot of times like chains into decentralized manner will just kind of like sweep things under the rug and it's like it's really interesting on how you can corral people and get them involved. Alright so let's get back to the hackathon for a second. Sounds like a ton of tokens that you're given away. What are you most pumped about and what
What kind of prize or hackathon kind of theme has you most excited? Well, it is a large amount of tokens and that was obviously by design. We want to show that we are trying to incentivize developers, right? We want to have good applications and quality tooling.
from day one. So to do that, you have to incentivize the people who will build those. And so this is our is one way we're going to do it, which is through this hackathon. I'm most excited, really just to see the different ideas that come from our incentive model. No one really has a model like ours.
So there's a lot of different use cases that we just haven't thought about or are seeing yet. So it's going to be interesting to see what people come up with and how they'll alter certain products that we see today to incorporate this new mechanism of a curing value. So I would say Dows will be an interesting
just because the idea that you can accrue value to your DAO. And then also, I'm interested to see what kind of DeFi products can be built that don't require token. That's what I think is one of the coolest things about our choice that if you create an application that's being utilized,
You don't need a token. You'll earn enough arch through whatever mechanisms you decide that a token is not really necessary. So you don't have to worry about the regulatory compliance. You don't have to worry about building your own validator set if you're going to do a layer one. But even as a layer two, if you're
you're just relying on a layer one, you still don't need a token if you're earning enough an arch. And I think that creates the incentive to build really good applications and not have to worry about the backend of launching a token and dealing with investors and compliance, which I think a lot of don't help us will find.
very enticing, a way to earn without having to go through the rigmarole of going to investments and meeting with VCs and getting legal help to get all that set up. So it's not an easy process to do. It's much easier just to launch application.
Okay, you want you want DeFi protocols to launch without a token? I know. Can you believe that? Never. You like you just want the utility to be embedded inside the application. No, never gonna happen. I don't know. It could be. See, I'll push back on
on the deep I aspect for a second because you know what what we found is that if you're a deep I protocol you're fundamental or or even a layer one that you're going to have to incentivize and pay for liquidity and right now liquidity has a premium especially in a
like, minibull, maybe not necessarily like, as valuable. So I would say without a token, I mean, you're gonna have to go like order books or concentrate on liquidity, which is like really hard for people. So I'm interested to see how that happens. One kind of insight and
And this is something that we've recently found out about that I'd like to share. We're starting to do on-chain analysis of like every single contract and the different contracts that are used across, specifically EVM chains, not as much as I cause them ones of chains.
And it turns out that we're finding structured products end up becoming the most utilized contracts. Obviously, there's NFT trading and stuff like that. But the other most utilized things are like, kind of like Taro, for example, on Kava who are working
with is right now the number one contract used because of its structured product nature. When you start kind of utilizing structured products, how does that fit into the equation of this contract usage?
Enablement. Have you guys considered that at all?
Eric, I don't know if you have any thoughts on this specifically. It's a great question. I actually want to have to probably ponder a little bit.
Yeah, it's a weird reason recent realization. Um, Eric, it's not that you have Eric. I got one more question as well. And then I'll answer Eric answered that question, but also want to invite anybody else to ask.
questions up to ask and then Robo, I got your DM so I'm going to ask that next. So Eric, structured products on Archway with auto-compounders and yield generators involved so like that.
So in order to profit off of it you need that the gas to come from elsewhere. I know that we like to pass that on to the user so that they take the fees. If you pay the fees yourself you can do it more for free than elsewhere. But in general,
Yeah, they should be better, they should be easier to use. One other thing that's really cool about Archway stuff is, I mean, the Fee Grant's been available in Cosmos for forever, but it hasn't been practical until Archway because now it's refillable. If you set up 10,000 Arch as a Fee Grant and give everybody access to one Arch, after you onboard 10,000 users
to your AMM who could buy Arch for the first time on your platform. And so I'm going elsewhere. You're still going to have like 9 or 10,000 Arch left over for the next 10,000 users. So we will see massive growth, every growth, every transaction on chain will burn Arch. So it
Like it's looking very solid. We're excited to see how this is going to shape. I think we are going to see and we're seeing already for the apps building out a lot more structured applications that are run properly in my opinion as businesses.
So we'll see a lot of optimizations for transactions on chain. We'll see lots of customizations and composability and optimizations that haven't existed elsewhere because they finally make sense to do so. And to put an innovation in places that's going to pan out because it doesn't make sense anyways.
Yeah, got a ponder on that because there's like there's is it is it a spiral out of control effect with these these vaults and structured products or is it kind of added?
I don't know. It's great experiment. I'm excited to figure it out. We got a question in the DMs, which was, "What's your guys take on Outposts?" and how are you guys handling that? And kind of like sneaking about that.
There are already quite a few prominent applications that are building outposts on Archway, so that will be recently familiar. I'm sure applications that are archway native will eventually make outposts.
Several schools have thought for how outposts should be set up, how interjean applications should be set up. We've worked with Axelark pretty closely, so we're interested in their wheel and spoke methods.
did basically as you have like a bunch of different types of the same USDC, you have to be able to get them back to the same type if you're ever going to go externally to like avalanche or somewhere. So outpost is one way to attack it and I'm sure we'll pursue that but then there are also other ways that are being pursued.
very cool we got it we got a speaker I think it's the funky one what do you got funky one yeah it's a funky funky one whichever I just wanted to jump up here and say thank you so much actually shortly before I jumped into this space I was chatting with Max on telegram he invited me into the archway discord I just happened to see
that this Twitter space was starting. So I wanted to jump in and I'm relatively new to the Cosmos ecosystem and kind of hanging around for about two or three months and I am part of the corporation. I see Brian laughing at me. I am the director of Good Vibes, the soft little quack of voice that Rama loves. But
I just wanted to say thank you so much. This was such an excellent primer for me to understand what artway is building. We're an infrastructure provider, Lucky Friday Labs, a company at Workforce, so maybe we can run validators, whatever, but still like, this was just a great overview. I find the astro vault, Dow thing, super interesting, so thank you Eric,
sharing your expertise on tokenomics. I have a meeting I gotta go to. I just, if nothing else wanted to express my gratitude for all of you being up here sharing your expertise. I'm a lifelong learner, pretty much a general nerd. So I love listening to these kinds of conversations where I'm just, I feel like my brain's exploding and it's on fire the entire time. So just wanted to say thank you so
like for giving me the chance to just express my gratitude, really enjoyed this conversation a lot and I look forward to learning more about archway. Thanks so much, Kay. Awesome, man. Seriously, pretty cool. So just, yeah, Ape and Validate on every chain, go fill out our profile and have a good one and send us all your shmackles.
Just kidding. No, no, that's awesome. We love to hear. I got another question in the background. How are you guys launching? Are you guys going to be like permissioned at first?
throughout the subcomit was outposts are pumping crazy on the feeds and being really considered like this kind of like interchained security kind of like mechanism that's going to make all of these a feel like of a better word, a word, cosmos
cartels. So are you going to launch permission lists and then embed it in the outpost, like fee trading and stuff like that kind of thoughts? So we're I think we'll be permission for like one day just to make her be run smoothly, but yes, we're going to be fully permission lists.
As far as the outposts and these types of cartels, it's interesting. Like I said, we believe that we will be the user interface for Hall of Cosmos. It makes a lot of sense for other people to come make outposts on Archway so that they can have this monetizable point. They can charge whatever they want to charge for their cost.
contracts and relaying elsewhere wherever they have to handle the computation. But it makes less sense for us to go do our outposts elsewhere in my opinion. And I don't think that I don't believe that outposts are the full end game. I think we've seen a lot of narrative spin up lately that will be short-lived. Yeah.
to agree with Eric that if the Alpost kind of thesis continues, I still think it makes the most sense to deploy it on our trade just because you're going to earn fees and rewards that just aren't available anywhere else. So it really just makes more sense from a strictly business standpoint.
point. But it'll be interesting to see how that plays out overall. I got I got a last question for Eric as a as a tokenomics guy. Have you seen the wind validator? The better escrow thing that they're working on with the gauge?
Nope. Okay, then I'm going to take that offline, but I'll food for thought. There's a really kind of interesting DeFi primitive that that wind is pushing out there for LSDs, which basically allows for a weighted gauge of
validators based upon their token to then figure out where the LSD tokens are actually stayed with. And so I think it's just a really cool new game and if you would have heard of it, I would have liked the bottom. But that's an excellent description and that's actually super useful. But I I'm not
a fan of how it's going to be implemented right now. I would love to take a conversation offline, but I've written pretty extensively on liquid-sake interruptives. Oh, dude, you gotta link me. You gotta link me. All right, before we nerd out, let's close this up. Any last things in the R2A team you guys want to say?
Other than, you know, check out our Twitter page, we have a ton of information on there, links to all of our documents. If you want to learn more about the protocol, the reward mechanism, how to sign up to be a validator, how to launch a DAP, all that's included in our docs. We just did a revamp and they look
Awesome. Finally, I added a dark mode, which looks amazing. And then also check out our pinned tweet on our Twitter, which is @ArchwayHQ. It will have a link to the hackathon if you're interested in signing up there. And then there's also links to our Discord and Telegram, which are growing quickly.
as the community starts to learn more about archway. So we'd love it if you guys came and joined the Discord and Telegram and ask questions, provide ideas, whatever you guys are feeling. But yeah, we'd just love to get the community more involved and hear from you guys so that we can develop for the people who are going to be using the protocol.
100% and one more thing is that Phylobs is a really big team and their kind of idea is that L1s what they're offering like they're selling block space and the only way they can retain and get anything out of it is to get teams building out and we want to be the cheapest and easiest and best place to build.
And so we're offering design help, tokenomics help, marketing help, whatever kind of help your small team needs for whatever you guys are trying to build. So if you have an idea you've got one or two people and you're trying to build it out, we will help you for free because we want you to build out on our chain because that helps us. So that I want to bother L1s are offered
not in theory, but they're kind of just giving loose grants that are never actually actualized. They just make a headline and they never follow through. We are actually going to walk it through the trenches with you guys and help you build. That's huge. Thank you for, thanks for having me. That's much appreciated in the general ecosystem.
So thank you guys so much for being here. It's great to hear what you guys are up to and I'm excited to keep the combo going and see where you guys go. Yeah, we seriously appreciate it, man. It's great talking to you guys. It has great questions and we're always happy to talk about what's going on at Archway. So hopefully we can join you again sometime.
- Beautiful, thanks for being everybody.
Cool, we're gonna call that a wrap and thanks for joining this AMA today with Archway and Alpha Growth. Thanks to everybody.
Eric and Matt and you know, Crypto Kim, I'm not gonna dox you or anything or say your real name Joe of course and everybody who join. It's Max, I'll dox myself guys.
But not that was I pretty sure that yeah, you know it's yeah, we're we're doxless I had ill for growth. Yeah, we will not dox you unless you dox yourself. I'm self-unruly. Unfortunately, so here we are
All right. Well, thanks guys again, and appreciate your time. And yeah, we'll speak again. And oh, when launch, when token. Well, we'll say I'm not going to give a specific date because I've learned from that, but I would say end of March or end of May and a May is looking like the most likely
time period. Let's do this again after lunch. Once you get up and going, we'll see you then. Now know about Archway. Get involved, the discord, the telegrams, the twitter, the docs, get some help from Eric and tokenomics.
and he'll work for free to help you with your tokenomics for hours and days to get all of your alignment and all of your tokens out the door and into your pocket and helping people add value to the archweaching. It's been Brian, have a good, see you later. Bye. Sign up for the hackathon.