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Ankr Talks: Ankr x Luganodes
Recorded: May 18, 2023 Duration: 1:06:40Space Recording
Full Transcription
This video is brought to you by S.T.A.L.A.
Hey, hello everyone.
Let me check.
All right, I see you.
Hello, Max.
Hey, how's it going?
Can you hear me well?
Yeah, loud and clear.
All well.
Awesome.
I just came home running because I got caught by what is, I think, the craziest storm we
have had this year.
But, you know, all good now.
What about you?
Awesome.
Good to have you.
No, all good.
All good.
I'm very excited to be in this Twitter space today with you guys.
So let's get the ball rolling, I would say.
Yeah, sure.
Let's probably give people some minutes to join and maybe we can get it started in a couple
of minutes.
What do you think about that?
Sounds good.
Let's give them a couple of minutes.
People are coming in.
Yeah.
Great.
Yeah.
I see some people coming in, which is always nice, you know.
And yeah, good to have you all here.
I have invited LugaNodes as well to become a co-host just in case, you know, something
happens.
I don't expect we to have any sort of outage.
But sometimes, you know, in this kind of sudden storms, it might happen.
But I don't think it's going to happen, to be honest.
Right.
Let's hope for the best.
Should be fine.
But with Twitter space, it's quite new.
You never know.
I experience it myself.
So yeah, thanks.
Thanks for considering that.
Yeah.
I mean, definitely.
You know, we are after I think after a couple of Twitter spaces.
You know, you just become brown belt or black belt.
Nice.
Yeah.
I'm also quite new to this.
But yeah, super excited.
You know, just like always to hear, you know, what our friends from the crypto space as well
have to say, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
And what I particularly like about Twitter space is the fact that crypto Twitter is
already Twitter is very popular amongst the cryptocurrency community.
And it's just a very nice and easy way to join conversations effortlessly and without having
to, let's say, log out and log in on another platform.
So I think it was a very good move from Twitter space.
And I see it's picking up.
Yeah, definitely, you know, and as you, as you said, you know, it's always, I think this
kind of voice live discussions, you know, are, well, I mean, quite enlightening as well
as more efficient, I must say as well.
Another good thing is that Twitter space is get recorded.
So, you know, I think they're available for a month or so.
But however, we as well download them, you know, so we can upload on another platform like
YouTube so people can replay it just in case they can't make it, which happens a lot because
unfortunately, you know, we have to choose a time zone and not everybody can join, right?
Right, right.
Yeah, but that's well, it is recorded.
Speaking about Twitter spaces, are you from Anchor doing these regularly?
Um, yeah, actually, yes, we have, have a quite packed month.
Um, we have done just a 10th, uh, on Tuesday, uh, last Thursday, we had TransFi and the other
week we had, uh, our friends from Manto.
So it has been an, you know, ongoing thing.
Um, and yeah, we are, you know, just looking to, to talk to our partners and friends.
Um, awesome.
And potentially doing, you know, part two of the session.
Cool.
No, sounds very good.
As from Luganauts, we also, um, got very bullish on Twitter spaces as well.
So last week we had guests from the Polygon CKEVM team there.
And also one week before we talked to the, to Ton, uh, the open network, um, spent out
from, from Telegram.
So, um, yeah, and today with, with Anchor.
So happy to be here with you guys.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
And, um, I see it's, uh, it's picking up a bit.
Um, so I'm just going to send out this one last invitation to people, uh, well, to, to
our community and, uh, yeah, basically then just, uh, get it officially started.
Right.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Let's do it.
Cool.
Um, yep.
So here we are.
Um, oops, my apologies.
Um, oh, oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Here we are.
I'm really sorry.
Um, good evening everyone.
And, uh, welcome to today's, uh, excited to your spaces session, uh, anchor talks with,
uh, Luganoat.
I've been talking a bit to Max already and, uh, we got to know each other a little bit.
Um, and yeah, we have a special guest.
As I was saying, uh, Max is a lead business development, uh, Luganoat.
Um, and yeah, we are super happy to have you here with us today, uh, Max and yeah, as well.
Um, we sincerely appreciate your patience and flexibility amidst the changes, right.
In, uh, scheduling for this AMA and I wanted to, you know, uh, and a shout out to, uh, Jan
Shu as well for helping coordinate and, uh, yeah, thank you so much for, um, for joining
us, you know, uh, Max and after that, welcome, uh, I think we all love to, uh, get to know
you a little better.
Uh, so could you take a moment to introduce yourself to the audience?
Maybe you can share a bit about your background, your role at the lead BD at Luganoat and, uh,
yeah, what led you right to this exciting position?
Yeah.
Um, thanks.
Thanks for having us.
Uh, so my name is Max.
I'm the head of business development here at Luganoat, um, maybe a couple of sentences
about myself.
So I got involved in crypto in late 2016, actually found out about it, um, from a presentation
at, um, at, uh, the university at the university program and, uh, completely ignored it, to be
honest, um, as often, um, it is the case for most of us, uh, but, uh, eventually a couple
of months later, um, I stumbled upon Bitcoin as well.
So I got more and more involved, um, in early 2017, um, ever since tried to keep up with
the space, um, professionally, I, um, before I joined Luganoats, I, um, also worked as a
business development and partnerships manager for another cryptocurrency company, which is
called Finoa, which is a Europe, one of the biggest Europeans, uh, crypto custodians
for institutions, and also a, uh, staking provider.
Um, so here we already have, uh, um, let's say I already had experience with, uh, providing
a staking facilities.
And, um, this also brought me then, um, eventually to Luganoats, um, which is a non-custodial, um,
institutional grade staking service provider based in Switzerland in Lugano to be exact.
Oh, that's where the name comes from, right?
Exactly.
Yeah.
This makes absolutely sense.
Uh, Luganoats, Lugano, um, maybe before I explain a little bit, uh, in more detail
what, uh, Luganoats does, um, maybe a couple of sentences about, uh, Lugano, the Swiss city
itself, um, for people who may have, uh, never been there.
It's a very, oh, it aims to become the capital of, of, of cryptocurrencies basically.
And it, uh, oh, it also, um, the city itself, for example, uh, supports, um, the, um, the
web-free ecosystem with, uh, with a hundred million, uh, Swiss francs to accelerate, uh,
blockchain adoption.
And so, for example, it aims to collect taxes in cryptocurrencies, but also if you go to
shops, right, um, you are able to spend a Bitcoin and, uh, for example, Teva, but also
the stable coin, which was issued by the city, um, buying, going to a McDonald's, for example.
Um, so it is a very, very vibrant city when it comes to cryptocurrencies and we were born
out of, um, Lugano, um, to be exact Luganoats was, uh, the first company that, um, was supported,
um, with, uh, from a program called, um, Lugano Plan B.
This is a program from the city itself, uh, as mentioned to accelerate web-free companies
and blockchain adoption and Luganoats, um, grew out of this program and, yeah, this is
basically where we are, we are coming from.
And, um, yeah, so I really, it's a beautiful place and I really recommend to visit it, especially
for, for crypto folks, um, but maybe to come, uh, to explain a little bit more specific because
some folks may not be familiar with Luganoats yet, um, we are, as mentioned, a non-custodial
staking and infrastructure provider, um, for institutions, but also for, um, B2B businesses.
So we work with, um, it's, uh, crypto native VCs, banks, hedge funds, but of course also
with, uh, some exchanges and, um, especially what, where we put a lot of focus on is especially
working with the foundations, with the protocols themselves right from the beginning.
Oh, well, I mean, thank you so much for that, uh, detailed, right, overview of, uh, what
Luganoats is about and, well, where, uh, your origins as well, right?
And it's definitely super interesting.
I didn't know about Lugano and, um, you know, I'm also based in Europe, so it's quite close.
Uh, so yeah, probably, um, you know, it's going to be my wishlist for a visit.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Uh, are you from there as well, uh, just for my curiosity?
So I'm, I'm very close to, to Switzerland.
I'm based in Munich, South Germany, but, uh, the entire Luganoats team is, um, it's, you
could say, um, in the ethos of decentralization, fairly decentralized, uh, split across the world.
Uh, some of us are in the middle East, some of us are in Asia and India, uh, in the U.S.
And also, of course, in Europe, in Switzerland, Germany.
So quite the centralized team.
Um, but yeah, by myself, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm very, very close to, to the headquarter
to Lugano, fortunately.
I understood.
I understood.
Yeah.
It's similar in, well, at Anchor, it's quite similar.
We've got, you know, uh, people across the globe and, uh, yeah, I mean, it's the same
situation, right?
Different time zones, different countries.
So yeah, I definitely understand that.
Awesome.
So I think, uh, we have, well, you have told us a bit about the mission and vision, right?
Uh, behind, uh, Luganoats.
So maybe we could now enter a bit the key services and solutions it offers to, well, to the overall
blockchain community, right?
Um, what is, uh, what are the key services, right?
That you have for us.
So, um, maybe to pick up upon, um, the details that I just shared, um, to give a bit more
flavor about Luganoat.
So, um, we are live on about 20 POS networks when it comes to validate, uh, being a validator
node.
Um, just to mention a few, we are one of the, um, biggest validator for, for Polygon, um,
for Tron as well, um, we support, uh, near Solana, um, and, uh, Eve of course, um, but
also more, uh, more unpopular chains.
And this, this, uh, I wanted to share in regards to giving a bit more, uh, flavor when it comes
to validating nodes, but, um, there are also many other infrastructure services, um, that
many people may not be aware of that you, as a business who wants to, that wants to
build, um, a web free solution, um, is, um, require, and this could be RPC services, snapshots,
um, just, uh, just a normal nodes, uh, indexes, um, but also block explorers and these services,
um, these are also offered by, by Luganoats to the protocols, but also this is, um, the reason
also, these are the services where we, um, partner wanted to also partner up with anchor
in order to, it's, you could say, join forces and provide, um, these services bundled or
in a white glove manner, um, to businesses that wants to get involved in web free and
build, um, their stack.
Well, um, thank you so much again, uh, Max for, uh, the enlightening, uh, answer.
And, um, yeah, now that we have a good understanding of, uh, Luganoats, what it is, where it comes
from, right?
Let's, uh, maybe get in, dive deeper a bit, right?
Into the collaboration with, uh, with anchor.
Um, I remember that, uh, well, it's something that has been announced as well from, uh, from
both sides, right?
But I think it's always, uh, good to hear what, uh, well, the source itself, right, has
to say as well.
And, uh, so Max, yeah, as the leading, as the, sorry, lead BD, right at Luganoat, could
you tell us a bit more about the inspiration behind the partnership and, you know, the goals
that we have?
Yeah.
Maybe to, uh, start with the, what first, right?
Um, so we partnered with anchor, uh, mainly to provide these, um, just, uh, mentioned blockchain
infrastructure.
So not only validating nodes, but also other services like, um, RPCs or, or normal nodes
that are not validating, um, for the app chains, for application specific blockchains, um, which
is, um, I hope many are familiar with that, um, a more scalable solution for blockchain development,
um, basically as the name suggests, right?
And I think you would be able to explain it a bit better in a second, um, that the infrastructure,
the blockchain is built around the use case, around the application to make it more suitable.
Um, but this is what we partnered up.
And as mentioned, um, you need multiple service for that.
And we wanted to contribute to the growing ecosystem by partnering up and providing our
part, um, to that, um, the goal, uh, to summarize it up, the goal is, um, of this collaboration
is to offer reliable and secure validator nodes.
Um, and of course, um, when, uh, when multiple modules are requested for building to enable
a seamless operation, um, for these builders, for these users that, um, wants to build, um,
app chains.
Oh, my bad.
Sorry.
No, no worries.
And maybe to, to be even a bit more specific, right?
Um, so within the collaboration, um, Luger notes and anchor here, um, will run, um, the
notes for, um, for, um, for polygon super nets, as mentioned, we've been already very active
in the polygon ecosystem and also in the BNB side chains.
So the current chain of the app chains, um, are also very flexible to use, right?
It could be on Binance, could be on polygon and within the app chain, the required notes.
This is something that with this partnership, Luger notes together with anchor can collaboratively
offer to the, to the users, to the developers.
I think, um, I'm learning quite a lot, uh, today with, with you, with Max in the, in the
session, right.
Regarding, well, regarding, uh, the partnership.
Right.
And, uh, that's why I like this, um, you know, this kind of sessions, uh, because, well,
first of all, we remind everyone as well about, uh, what we are doing together.
Right.
And, uh, secondly, well, it's also learning a lot more from, uh, from, from you guys.
Right.
Um, not only the, the anchor version of, of things, which is, uh, which is great.
And, um, now moving to, onto the topic of, uh, infrastructure, um, so I think security
is one of the key things, right.
To, to consider here, uh, and, um, could you shed some light on, you know, what sets
Luganode apart as a safer choice and maybe, you know, elaborate a bit on security measures
that, uh, you are implementing.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, um, as mentioned before, I think we can start, um, with the fact that Luganode self
is a non-custodial staking service provider.
Um, so, uh, the, the owner is always in hold of, of its, uh, private keys, of its assets.
Um, besides this, uh, that our infrastructure runs on bare metal service, um, operating in
a multi-region setup, uh, to just ensure high availability.
Um, we also, um, can, um, implement, uh, HSM's hardware security modules to even further
increase the security and disk, uh, encryption.
We use, um, for example, also, uh, ledgers and air-gap machines for key management.
Um, periodically, we also do key rotation, uh, to increase the security.
And I think on the certificate side, which is also, um, becoming more and more important,
especially for enterprises, right.
We are currently, and bear in mind that Luganodes, uh, is a very young business.
It's been around for 11 months only.
Um, we've currently working towards the ISO 27001 and SOC 2 type 2 certifications, um, and
already running entire free databases.
Um, so, uh, not only taking part of the, you could say cryptographic security, but also
try to, um, display it and ensure it with specific certifications that are usually required
from enterprises, from businesses.
So we are working towards that, um, while we're speaking actually.
Oh, wow.
That's great.
Right.
Yep.
Yep.
Uh, that's, that's something great.
And, um, just, you know, um, here's a short parenthesis, uh, about when it comes to,
you know, what you have mentioned, uh, the keys, uh, yes, just yesterday, you know, I was
checking to you and then saw a thread about, uh, ledger, right.
Which is, uh, well, quite a hot topic right now with the, uh, uh, seed phrase recovery
service.
Um, just, you know, I just reminded it, uh, while you were talking and yeah, definitely
let's see how that ends.
Right.
But, uh, you know, I think we all feel secure, you know, until, uh, until, uh, well, things
are not secure.
So it's always reassuring, you know, to, uh, to have these different statements from, uh,
projects, right.
Like, uh, like Luga nodes, um, which is great.
And, um, you know, thank you so much for, uh, yeah, for, for coming with such a, you know,
a detailed right explanation of, of how you're doing things.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Security is, is key for us as well.
And, um, I think, uh, the result from Luga nodes, right.
We have, we guarantee an uptime of 99.99% and, um, a slashing event, for example, never
occurred, uh, to us.
Um, so we take it very seriously and this priority number one.
So as mentioned, um, this, this, um, let's say setups, like using bare metal servers, also
being non-custodial and also, um, providing the certifications are, um, yeah, on the, on,
on top of our agenda, um, while also providing, um, let's say, having, having these nodes running
smoothly.
Yep, definitely.
I mean, and, you know, now, now, well, I have came up with this topic, uh, from, well,
the broader, right, uh, blockchain industry and, uh, probably, well, it's not good that,
uh, we, we do this, uh, a debate, right.
About another, um, company, but, um, yeah, just speaking a bit on, on the blockchain industry,
right, uh, like we're just curious, you know, to know, uh, your opinion on the exciting trends
and developments that, well, you have observed, right, in recently, in recent times.
So, what kind of, uh, specific areas or advancements, right, capture your attention and are, well,
most promising, uh, for you?
Yeah.
So, first of all, um, we, as an infrastructure provider, same with, I think that, that also
holds true for Anchor, um, we work with a lot of, um, early stage projects, right?
So, um, usually, um, when it comes, for example, to offer, um, infrastructure or validating
nodes, we, um, try, um, to get involved as early as possible, um, to be a bit more exact,
um, trying to get involved in the DEFNET, um, in the unincentivized testnets, um, to test
things out and the technical expertise that we usually bring to the table, um, also helps
the, the protocol, the foundation themselves to, let's say, identify a box and also then
improve that.
Um, so I think, um, you know, being involved very early, even though we are, let's say,
in a, still in a, in a late stage bear market, you could say, um, the, the development has
not stopped.
Yeah, hopefully, exactly.
But the development hasn't started, hasn't started, right?
And I think we see it also in exactly being involved in this early stage project and see
what they are doing.
Um, so in general, I think, um, what excites me is also what will come out on the protocol
stage, first of all.
And I think as the industry grows as a whole, right, um, collaboration is key.
And that's why we partnered up with, with Anchor, which is a household name in providing
infrastructure to join forces and to, let's say, enable, um, the developers to build in a
very easy, um, way, um, in a, and you could say in a white glove approach, right, to give
them the services, um, that are needed.
And, uh, this is what excites me a lot.
Um, besides that, um, what, uh, I also would mention is, um, so DVT is, uh, quite exciting
at the moment, also distributed validator technology.
Um, um, um, so for, for the people who may not be familiar with that, um, so this is
basically a technology or protocol.
And I think Obal network would be a good example for that where the validator, um, or the problem
with current or legacy, uh, validators is that they run on a single machine and this has
the risk of basically this, this, uh, makes it a single point of failure and distributed
validator technology enables to run one validator on multiple machines.
So you basically join forces with, with other node operators and the single point of failure
then, um, goes away in that case.
Um, there are also a couple of other advantages, for example, when you think about Ethereum,
then, um, you need this 32 ETH in order to be able to stake.
Um, but with DVT, when you join forces with, with, with your friends, right.
With, uh, when you're a solo staker, but also with, uh, with, um, other entities like Luga
nodes, um, you can also then collectively, um, collect, uh, these 32 ETH.
So this is another, um, you could say advantage for, for smaller stakers, right.
For individual stakers, for example.
Um, but it has a lot of advantages and I think DVT is for, for us or myself, uh, very exciting
to watch over, over this year.
How about yourself?
What do you think?
No, yeah, definitely.
And, uh, I was just going to mention that actually it's not the first time we, we hear about,
uh, DVT in, in the Twitter spaces, uh, that we do, you know, with, um, yeah, with different
projects, uh, we did, um, a session a couple of weeks ago with Cubist.
Um, I don't know if, uh, you know them, uh, they, they have been working with Anchor as
well in, uh, security and, you know, they, they work as well in, in Web3, uh, and they're
helping us, uh, secure the, uh, well, liquid staking of, uh, Ethereum, uh, actually.
Um, and yeah, so it's definitely a super interesting topic and I think we can, we can
turn, you know, our attention to, to DVT and liquid staking, which is actually the, a product
that, uh, that we offer at, at Anchor as well.
And, uh, could you maybe, you know, go a little further with the concept of, uh, DVT and liquid
staking?
And well, of course, you know, since, uh, today Luganos is the protagonist, right?
Um, how Luganos is involved as well in, in these initiatives.
Yeah.
Maybe to touch upon DVT again.
So basically as mentioned to you, it allows, um, to split, um, yeah, validator duties, um,
across several nodes, um, and maybe to, to dive a little bit deeper into that.
So each node, um, in this cluster, right.
Um, has, um, has custody only of a part of the validator key.
Um, so this is what I meant with the, the, uh, removal of the single point of failure
and this fault tolerant, meaning that if a, if a certain subset of, um, of, if one server,
one node goes down or is offline, um, the, the cluster, the network of these, um, of these
various nodes are still able, um, to sign the block, right.
Sign the transaction and nothing is missed.
So this is, um, again, one of the, of the key advantages.
Um, it's still, uh, quite early stage.
Um, so for example, we at Luganodes, um, we currently run a test cluster.
So this collaboration with our node operators, um, using the, the overall network that I mentioned
before, and we are doing it with some other, um, staking providers and entities just to name
a couple of Deutsche Telekom, for example, validation cloud.
Um, yeah, definitely Deutsche Telekom, um, quite a big corporation, but surprisingly, um,
quite early, especially in the infrastructure game, um, it's been very active.
So shout out to them.
Um, but yeah, with, with these kinds of big institutions, we are testing, uh, testing
DV, the DVT technology to enhance the security in the end of, uh, POS networks like Ethereum,
right?
Um, so this is very exciting and maybe to make the bridge to liquid staking, um, so maybe
for, for the folks who are not yet familiar with, with staking, um, basically it enables
users, right?
So if you stake your ETH, um, in the, in the classical way, then, um, you, um, have no access,
um, to the funds that you staked.
So it's not capital efficient and liquid staking enables users, um, to stake their assets like
ETH, for example, um, and still effectively use them by receiving a receipt, another token
that represents the stake, your stake, and also the rewards that it accrues and using this
other token as a collateral in our DeFi project.
So it makes your stake liquid.
That's why liquid staking, um, and this is of course also very, um, a development that
is very exciting, especially after, uh, the upgrade from Ethereum that we're also very
bullish on.
And of course, in collaboration with, um, with Anchor, um, which is also liquid staking, um,
has liquid staking technology that it provides.
Um, this is something that we are very excited about in the coming months and years.
Yeah, indeed.
If you're going to stake, remember that we offer liquid staking as well.
Pleasing a nod here.
I'm sorry about that, Max.
I had to do it.
No worries.
No worries.
Um, Anchor is a household name.
So I think it's just fair to mention that.
Um, and, uh, yeah, maybe to, um, to also give our viewers a little bit more information.
Can you elaborate a little bit on the liquid staking that is provided by Anchor?
This is, I think, one of your core services, right?
Next to this app chains.
Uh, well, yeah, we have a suite of services, you know, for, um, for all kinds of, uh, use
cases.
We have the RPCs, we have the advanced, you know, APIs and, uh, SDKs.
We have the enterprise, so great solutions as well.
But this is, uh, I think, uh, you know, just within the, uh, the main, the core services,
but a bit more specialized.
Uh, then we have the gaming SDKs as well, the app chains that you're, uh, working closely
with, uh, I believe.
And then we have Lucas staking as well as, uh, you know, and, uh, the SDKs as well.
Um, and yeah, basically as, uh, I think Max did, you know, a, a very good overview of,
uh, what, uh, well, Lucas staking is basically, uh, when you stake any token with us, right?
When you, um, um, for example, let's, uh, take the example of, uh, Ethereum, right?
As you mentioned, um, it's just basically, uh, delegate, well, not delegated in, in, um,
actually, right.
It's, uh, stake it through us.
Um, and then, yeah, you receive the anchor ETH token, um, back that, uh, basically, well,
you can use, uh, to provide, you know, liquidity and earn, or you can, um, stake it elsewhere
or, um, yeah, it, as, uh, as, uh, as well, as you said, uh, Max, it allows you to have
immediate liquidity, uh, as well, since, you know, if your ETH is, uh, stake it and, you
know, let's say, uh, well, there is something urgent that you have to do and you need that
money, uh, if you do it the traditional way, there is just literally no, well, no option.
Right.
For you to, uh, to, to un-stake that.
So it's, it's super flexible and, uh, yeah, it's, uh, as you said, plus the community rewards,
I think it's a, it's a great idea, you know?
Yeah.
And, um, yeah, you're absolutely right.
I agree.
And I think especially after, um, after the transition from Ethereum, from, um, proof of
work to proof of stake, but also the, um, ability to withdraw the staked assets.
This, this was another, um, risk, uh, risk factor, a huge risk factor in the past, especially
for bigger institutions.
Right.
If you think about it, they, yeah, for, for regulatory reasons, they often can not invest,
um, in, um, in staked products that they cannot withdraw.
Right.
So I think, um, the Ethereum being the biggest, um, having the total, the biggest total TVL
total value locked, um, I think the, um, as this transition to be able to withdraw, right.
I think this opens, uh, opened a lot of doors.
And I think that's why, that's why we did not see a lot of sales, but ironically, a lot
of more interest in, in staking.
Um, and I think if I'm not mistaken, currently, um, Ethereum, I think only about 15% of Ethereum
are staked.
Uh, if you compare it to other POS networks, um, maybe even Zolana near, um, Polygon, I
think the rate is way higher there, 50, 60, 70, 80% even.
Um, so I think there's a lot of room to grow for the biggest player here as well.
Um, and, um, yeah, the, the, I think the, the liquid staking is, I think even, let's say
the cherry on top of that.
Right.
Uh, so we will, I think see a lot of increase here as well.
Yeah, definitely.
Uh, we offer as well for, uh, you know, liquid staking for other, uh, platforms as well, or
the chains like Avalanche, Binance, Polkadot, Phantom, Kusama, just to mention a few.
Um, but yeah, you know, as you, as you mentioned, I think the barriers, uh, to, to Ethereum staking
are a lot higher and, uh, does, this is, you know, probably causing the lower, right.
Uh, staking rate, but yeah, I think, uh, we are here to fix that, right.
Which is, which is great.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Maybe just a quick, quick sentences about, um, our, um, Luganote involvement into, with,
um, liquid staking.
So, um, we've been active, um, as mentioned before, um, try to be very active in, in early
protocols.
And for example, um, for, um, starter, um, we, we had a node, um, a starter if X node life
as part of the rolling beta on the girly testnet on the, um, working, um, with, with starter
labs in that case.
Um, and, um, what, what they are working on is essentially, um, they work towards a, um,
um, you could say solving the, the staking tree lemma, right.
Um, with their ETH X, they call it, um, LSD, uh, LSD here.
And that, in that context stands for liquid staking derivatives.
And with that, they, they try to solve this trilemma, um, in the cryptocurrency space, right.
Um, to where you only can have two of decentralization, scalability and resilience so far.
And they try to, to solve that here, um, which is also again, a by-product of, of liquid
staking.
So I think this is also very exciting for us to see how this will go.
Um, besides, uh, the front mentioned, um, stay a test cluster in the, with the DVT technology
of our network.
So yeah, liquid staking, sourcing up, um, and, uh, DVT using DVT technology to further
decentralize and improve staking in general.
Um, yeah, we, we from Luga notes are very bullish on, um, but of course at the moment
you also have to focus on the operational business and this is still, um, providing classical
valid, validating services, validation notes for POS networks.
This is still our bread and buttery.
Definitely.
Um, yeah, I mean, definitely, here is something I, I just wanted to quickly mention, uh, as
well, we, uh, as, as you said, right, uh, LSD, I think, um, it's quite fun as well, right.
The, the acronym, um, but lately, uh, recently we have been, uh, well, we transitioned, you
know, into using LSD actually, uh, well.
I think part of the reason, you know, is that, but, um, cause we, we started to use, uh, LSD,
which, uh, stands for, uh, Lucas taking token instead of, uh, LSD, um, following the proof
of staking Alliance, uh, formal announcement, you know, on, on this one, uh, we are part
of the POSA as well, uh, the proof of staking Alliance as well.
So yeah, we, we also, you know, uh, started to, to use this acronym, uh, one, two singles.
Yeah.
To have a greater adoption, you know, uh, of this whole liquid staking and thing.
And, uh, yeah, the, the token received, you know, should, yeah, accurately reflect the
underlying asset, et cetera.
So yeah, um, I think that it's a little more accurate to have it to, well, to call it as,
well, I think, you know, uh, the proof of Alliance experts, um, awesome.
Right.
That it's, uh, a bit more, um, accurate to call it a token instead of derivative.
Uh, but yeah, I mean, it's, you know, just something punctual that I wasn't mentioned.
Yep.
Uh, no, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, a lot of development, um, out there.
Right.
But maybe, maybe, um, switching gears here, um, a little bit, um, what I wanted to ask you
in, in, um, as, as we partnered up, especially to offer services, infrastructure, validation,
services to app chains, um, I was curious to hear, um, when it comes to, um, to entities,
um, building these app chains, do you see a specific sector that is most interested or
yeah, most involved in using your technology or, or building app chains being it from the,
I don't know, from the, um, from the healthcare industry or from DeFi.
I was just curious to, to hear more about it.
If you can, if you can share.
Um, well, yeah, that's, here, here comes the, the question, right?
Um, so I wish I had, uh, Kev today with me, um, Kev Silk is, uh, our lead at, uh, at app chains.
Uh, I think, well, you, you might know him.
Um, I wish I had him with me, uh, because to be honest, I am not sure what I can share and
what I cannot share.
Uh, so if you don't mind me, I'm just not going to risk it, uh, today, but I'm definitely, uh, going
to relay this to, to Kev and, um, you know, see if we, yeah, if we actually can produce some more
information on this one, uh, give it a thread or an article or whatever, because I think it's, uh,
it's very interesting, you know, and if you have this question, I think our community will have
this question as well.
And yeah, there is definitely, you know, uh, I think need for that.
Um, and they will know better what we can share.
Awesome.
No, absolutely.
No, we will stay tuned for your announcements.
Um, but I think in general, regardless which industry, um, is, um, building, um, let's say blockchain,
um, systems of blockchain technology using these app chains, um, which are powered by,
by services from Luga notes, but also from anchor, of course, um, I think what they need
is exactly this kind of setup, right.
To have a white glove approach and to take them by the hand a little bit, to, to let them pick,
to, to guide them through, through the, all the aspects of, of building this web free system.
Um, I think this will increase adoption because then, um, they would have an easier life, um,
to migrate, right, to upgrade their services from, from the legacy world, from the web to world,
to the web free space.
And I think these, this approach that anchor is doing with the help of server partners like
Luga notes ourselves, but there are several more, I guess, right.
I think this is the right way to go in, in order to increase adoption for cryptocurrencies.
Yeah.
Um, thank you so much for that, you know, um, and Max, and yeah, I think definitely the way to go
because, um, it's, we, we were talking about this, uh, well, I don't, I don't remember which
session exactly, but you know, I think the, the end goal, I think it was with Banto, you know,
like the end goal is to let people, uh, well, to lower the barriers, of course, and, you know,
to have people using, um, services, but not having to know exactly, you know, what is behind
or having to like have a super complicated setup. Um, so yeah, I think, you know, the, and as well,
the same goes for developers, right. Um, I think it's, uh, yeah, the, the end goal is that one.
And I believe that, you know, uh, app chains is making it easier, but I might be biased as well.
Right. So yeah, I mean, I must, I must say it. Right.
No, absolutely. Yeah. But yeah, we, and, and well, I mean, just, uh, now that we, uh, we mentioned it,
right. We, you can also build on the BSC chain on Polygon and Avalanche with us. Um, and I believe
that there are more chains coming, but, uh, I'm not the one to make this kind of announcements and I
hope I don't, you know, I don't get, uh, blame for anybody for, for saying this. Um, but yeah, I think
these are chains that, you know, well, uh, as well, right. Uh, Matt. Yeah. No, you have mentioned it.
Um, yeah. So, so as mentioned, uh, Lugano's ourself, right. We support several chains. It's,
um, the space is moving fast, but at the moment we are live on 20 maintenance, um, including Polygon,
as mentioned, we are one of the biggest validators, um, for Tron. Um, but also supporting Avalanche,
of course, um, Cosmos based chains, um, near, um, a lot of, uh, new upcoming ones as well.
Like Tenet, you mentioned before we work with them as well, um, been active in the test net.
Um, so there's, there's also more to come from, from our side, as mentioned, we are quite a young,
uh, vibrant company, um, only been in that space, um, for about 11 months, but what we achieved so far
with 700 million, um, staked assets, I think, um, uh, it's a very good, uh, result so far.
And we're just getting started with amongst others with partnerships like anchor and in
a collaborative fashion, um, to grow the space. Um, yeah.
Well, 11, 11 months, one, nearly a year, right. And exactly.
In web three years, I think probably five or six years in, in, you know, normal years.
So you, you, you got it. That's a lot. Absolutely.
Yeah. I mean, you know, the names that, uh, you mentioned, uh, in the first part of this, uh,
session was the Polygon and Tron, you know, the, at least the ones that I remember, right.
And the most, uh, probably, right. The most, um, the biggest ones, um, and I'm just curious,
you know, on this one, and, and I would like to tap into it. Like, could you share with us a bit
your experience, right. Working with these networks and well, how it informs your approach to, to the
app chains as well, like if possible, of course.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, um, we were one of the, um, main, uh, part of validation partners,
um, for the Polygon, um, uh, for the Polygon, uh, ZK EVM, uh, ZK EVM launch.
Um, but also having worked or with the, with the Polygon technology before. And also, um,
we have a very strong technical team, um, when it comes to ZK technology. So this also helped us.
And of course, this, this expertise that we grew because our team, um, have, um, has, uh, experience
from, from years back, right. Um, being involved, um, also having core contributions to, for example,
the Cosmos, um, ecosystem. And this of course made our lives also easier, um, when it comes to,
um, to the app chains, um, regardless if they're based on, on Avalanche, right.
Or as mentioned on, on Polygon, on Binance, um, you're just through the, throughout the experience,
it just becomes easier, um, and it easier to, to, um, spin up nodes, to provide services
for these chains, um, and, uh, improve them even faster than.
Well, yeah, um, definitely, you know, and, uh, yeah, before, before we enter, um, you know,
like, uh, talking a bit more about, well, the, the future, right. And, uh, basically, you know, like
a bit about your opinion on, on things. Um, I would like to mention as well that to the, to the
audience, right. If you have any questions, uh, for Max, uh, feel free to start raising your hand,
uh, or requesting to speak, you know, and we will, we will introduce you, um, once, uh, well,
or maybe during, right. Uh, Max, uh, time on with the mic. Um, we, we still have some time,
right, Max. Yeah, absolutely. You can shoot the questions, just post them in the chat.
Sure. Um, yeah, they can, um, you know, request to speak as well, but I think today's
session is, is a bit intense, right. And, uh, probably, you know, um, it's going to be a little
difficult, but anyways, you know, uh, we, we like to have this interaction with the community. So
if you have any questions, well, probably not any, but if you have a question for Max,
uh, feel free to, you know, to request to speak and we will introduce you. Um, and now,
you know, just maybe we, we can speak a bit about, um, the future, right. Uh, Max and, uh, in your
opinion, right. How, how do you envision this partnership evolving in the future? Like,
are there any specific milestones that, that you are, you know, particularly, uh, looking forward to?
Yeah. I think if we zoom out a little bit, right. Um, what this partnership means is also,
um, from the perspective of the client is a further decentralization and does a further, um, improvement
of security, um, when it comes to these services. So, uh, speaking generally about color, uh, to increase
the collaboration between infrastructure providers like anchor and yoga notes. I'm very bullish on that
because in the end, the client wins, uh, it has, uh, he has a wider choice, a better choice for his
app development. Um, and regarding the partnership specifically. So I think to collaborate, um, to
provide even more services together beyond the nodes, right. Beyond indexes, um, as mentioned,
right, uh, DBT technology where we both are, um, um, getting involved in, and also liquid staking.
This is something that we actively looking into as well, as mentioned, and as anchor already provides
this product. So I see here, um, way, uh, even a bigger opportunity to strengthen this partnerships,
but of course, also to improve, um, to widen our service to also other parents chains beyond the,
the before mentioned, uh, Polygon and Avalanche and many others, Binance. Um, I think there's way more
room to grow. And in the end, again, the client just, um, gets a better option, uh, that may suit
the use case even better. So I think, um, collaborating even deeper on providing more services to,
to even more, uh, parent chains, but also, um, to, um, for example, um, providing some joint services
for liquid staking. I think these two aspects, um, are, um, the lowest hanging fruits when it comes to
deepen the relationship between anchor and, uh, Luga notes.
Well, um, thank you so much, uh, Max for this one. And, um, yeah, you know, it sounds, uh, super
interesting, uh, definitely. And now I, you know, um, I like to do these questions to, um, to our guests,
uh, when they are around, you know, um, so we are also eager to learn right about new initiatives
or projects that, uh, Luga note might have in the pipeline, of course, nothing confidential.
Uh, but if you wish, you can always share some here, uh, for, uh, anchor to have the premiere and
exclusive, right. Uh, but yeah, is there anything like super exciting that you can share with us
today? Like, you know, giving us a glimpse into what's coming next, like something that you
personally are expecting, you know, that it's burning inside you. Um, yeah, just, uh, well,
have in mind that, uh, of course, you know, uh, don't leak, uh, top secrets, I guess, but yeah,
like something like that, you know, that you're particularly expecting. Um, yeah,
first of all, I think this is what I can show you can expect a lot more from Luga notes, um,
when it comes to, um, no surprise here to liquid staking, um, as may mentioned,
even in collaboration with anchor, hopefully very soon, um, um, on top of the services that
we already offer together, um, but also with our state liquid staking providers. So this is
something that we're very bullish on. Um, you can expect here more as well, but also mentioned,
um, one aspect of Luga notes is that, um, we, um, based on the experience that we already gained
from all the several chains that we support from the beginning, um, I can probably say that we are
able to, um, run enterprise-grade validator notes very fast, very, very fast, spin them up, um,
go together through deaf nets, uh, test nets, um, and, um, uh, highlighting again, helping
the foundations, um, as well, uh, in that process, right? Not only just stupidly validating, but again,
bringing more strategic value, bringing added value on top technical added value. Um, so because of that,
I think, um, what you will see from Luga notes is that we very fast, um, support, um, more and more
networks that may not be very popular yet. Right. But in the future, so what I cannot name any,
any specific names, but you can expect a lot more, um, layer ones, layer twos that will be supported by
Luga notes right from the beginning. And I think the best place to watch for this announcement is of
course, um, our website, luganotes.com. We also have a medium block there. Um, please visit it. And of
course, please follow our, um, Twitter accounts. You can find us very easily luganotes. Um, there is
the, also the first place where we will announce our partnerships, um, and also in other, uh, chains
that we support, um, right from the beginning. So that would be the best place to be the first to get
this information. Sure. Yeah. And, uh, well, uh, for the audience, luganotes is as well in, in these, um,
Twitter spaces, anchor talks as a cohost. So it's pinned above, um, you know, if you can give it a
follow, I think, uh, Max would, uh, greatly appreciate it. And, uh, I see a raised hand, uh, from Mr.
Confidence. I'm just going to, um, um, to introduce him, uh, Max and, uh, maybe, you know, uh, yeah,
there's a, just a moment, please. There is, uh, yeah, a question from him or maybe something to add.
Um, so, hey, uh, Confidence, uh, Paulinus. Hey there. Do you hear us? Yeah, yeah, I'm here. I am.
Hey, hey, how's it going? How's it going? It's been cool. I've actually been a beneficiary of
this space. Thank God. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank God. It means a lot to us. Yeah.
So I want to trade a few questions here. Um, okay. I want to ask, um, why did you choose to
collaborate with Ank since going to luganotes? I'm asking like, what could be your reason?
And what are those things you saw that you've chosen to maybe make collaborations with Ank network?
Yeah. Thanks for the question. So first of all, um, for, for luganotes ourselves, right? Um,
we try to associate only with like very high quality, um, project, obviously, and, uh, businesses
and fast when it comes to blockchain infrastructure in general, as mentioned to build, to help, um,
you could say legacy or web to companies get involved in web free, for example, with, uh, with, uh, um,
with our own blockchain that is app specific, I think services like anchor, like, uh, is a household
name, uh, in order to enable that. Right. And, um, we wanted to, to, um, contribute to that. And as
mentioned before, I think, um, being in a decentralized ecosystem, I think the collaborative approach,
right. Um, it's more beneficial to all parties. And I think our specific services, our specific
knowledge with, with this multiple chains from validate from providing validator notes,
I think it's also, um, it's also helping benefiting, not only anchor, but also the client. And again,
in the end, it's about providing a greater choice, more options, um, for the user by decentralizing the
services, um, for example, via this, uh, collaboration. So this was our reason, um, why we also chose to
partner up with anchor as a household name in the industry. Okay. Um, upon this trend of, um, what
you've said, I, I think then with, you can also, and recommend other people to the ANK network
in the light of this, uh, if I can recommend anchor, I didn't get your question. Can you repeat,
please? Yes. Like in the light of, um, what you've said that ANK is a household name
in the industry. Can you recommend ANK to other networks, maybe for collaboration and all that?
Yeah, absolutely. I would, I would definitely, um, recommend to reach out to the anchor team
when it comes to collaboration, either, um, as being a partner like Luganotes themselves,
but also being, uh, um, let's say an entity, a business that wants to get involved into web free
and would need products, um, in order to spin up or build up the infrastructure. I definitely would
recommend it. Um, I think anchor provides a lot of good information out there already publicly.
And, um, that is again, um, after, um, having vetted, um, this business, um, very in, in a very
detailed manner. Um, for us, it was a no brainer to be associated and also collaborate with ANK.
So we have a definite yes from, from Luganotes. Thank you very much. Thank you. I think that's all from me.
Thank you, confidence. I appreciate your questions. Yeah, that was, that was a nice question. Like, um,
you know, it felt like, um, um, like customer support managers, like Max from one to 10,
how would you rate anchor and would you recommend it to a friend? And well, I see Sugar Lee around as well.
Yeah. You, he was, it was in the, in the last one with, with Tenet as well, right? Which are,
well, we have a friend in common, right? Um, absolutely. Yeah. We are very bullish on
tenant. We are involved with tenant as well. So it's great to hear that you also work. Um,
you also collaborated with tenant. Um, and again, I think coming back to the point, um, uh, why also we
chose, uh, anchor, um, again, the, the common vision, right? To further decentralize the space. I mean,
anchor, um, not, uh, does not try to, um, to be a walled garden, right? Um, which, um, makes, um,
which decreases the quality for businesses to want to build, but it goes the other way,
right? It opens up, it's, it opens up for other partners like Luganotes in order to provide services
together. And this philosophy of, of decentralization of, of further improving the services. This is
something with Luganotes stands for. And that's why also it was one of the reasons, um, why, um,
we wanted to collaborate and partner up with anchor. Well, thank you so much for, uh, for your comment,
uh, Max. And, uh, I see another raised hand, uh, from sugarly, but, uh, before introducing you,
uh, I would just like to, um, you know, comment on, uh, what max has said about tenant. So yeah,
actually we, uh, well, they know about us very well. We, we know each other. Um, Greg, uh, Greg
Gottman, the CEO of tenant. He used to be a CN video at anchor. Um, I used to work for him. Um,
you know, so, uh, great man. We, we miss him a lot. And yeah, I mean, that's, uh, one, well,
part of the reason, right. Uh, that we, uh, it was so smooth to work with them.
Absolutely. We are, I agree. We had, we've had a very pleasant experience as well.
Oh, that's, that's good to hear. I would definitely relate that to him. And, um, yeah,
so I think we, do we have time for one more question from, uh, from the audience, Max?
Absolutely. Let's shoot it. Great. So, uh, yeah, sugarly.
All right. Thank you for having me. Hey, hello. Thank you for joining. I,
I saw you in the last one as well. Right. Yeah. I, yeah, I was, I was around. Yeah.
Thank you. Um, okay. My, my, my, my question goes to Luganode. Um,
what's the security architecture of Luganode? Um, how secure it is your platform?
Um, so when it comes to security, just to mention some core, uh, features, uh, sugarly, um,
first of all, as mentioned, um, also a very important from a philosophical standpoint, um,
being, um, uh, 100, being a hundred percent non-custodial. So we offer non-custodial staking
when it comes to validators, but again, our, uh, servers that we operate, uh, one on a run on
bare metal and multi in a multi-region setup to increase further security. Um, we also include,
um, whenever it is appropriate and requested, um, disk encryption and hardware security modules
that are also, um, using, uh, uh, that are also used by tire tire one banks, um,
to mention some other aspects, um, ledgers and arrogant machines for key management, um,
some periodic key rotation to further enhance the security. And, uh, again, also to,
to also highlight that and also to, to, to showcase the security aspects, um, while we are speaking,
we are in the finalization process of, um, of, um, receiving the ISO 27001 certificate and also SOC
2 type 2 certificate, um, to, uh, further, um, also display how serious we are about security.
And we already run on a tire free, the highest, um, data centers, um, when it comes to our architecture.
I hope that answers your question superly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Cool. And that's great. And,
uh, well, I think we made it to the, to the full hour actually max. Um, and yeah, I think, uh, well,
I don't, I don't see any other raised hands, um, before, you know, before I, we wrap it up and, uh,
I do an ultra as well. Do you have anything else, uh, you would like to mention or something you
would like to, you know, add on, uh, what has been said something you would like to command?
Yeah. First of all, again, thank you for this Twitter space. Um, it was a pleasure to be here.
And, uh, again, and as we just started our partnership.
Oh, hello.
Max.
I think we have lost Max.
Um, hi Max.
Well, luckily we have a coordination group and, uh, I'm just going to ping him over there.
Um, well, it's, it's been happening lately. Uh, on Tuesday, we lost Greg for, for a couple of minutes.
Today we lose Max. Uh, what's going on guys? Um,
I think, I think we have some issues with our Twitter, you know, a lot of bugs going on.
Yeah, probably. Yeah. I mean, last time it was Greg's fault. I must say, um,
his, his phone died. Um, I hope it's, it's not the same case or, uh, I will have to,
um, yeah, I think, uh, probably we might not have lost Max, but, uh,
super amazing. Uh, thanks, uh, Sergey as well to organize this, uh, amazing Twitter spaces and,
uh, I'm glad that we could be part of this and, uh, super excited to partner with Angular overall
and, uh, work together to further decentralize, uh, various different blockchains and support
founders with, uh, high quality world-class blockchain infrastructure.
Uh, so yeah, super excited to work with you guys.
And thank you for having us.
Sure. Uh, thank you so much, uh, Anuj for, uh, for joining. And, uh, yeah, uh, we were expecting,
respecting you as well. Um, I see a raised hand. Um, what do you think about, I don't know,
Anuj, uh, like, uh, you know, I know, I know you just joined, uh, but what do you think about maybe
answering a question from, from the community as well?
Yeah, yeah, sure.
Yeah, sure.
Uh, um, that's cool. Um, so yeah, we have, uh, oh, it's, it's connecting, uh, still.
And, uh, and we have in life. Um, yeah, if you'll.
Well, I, I, I don't know what to say. It's a, it's a, it's a great station. I mean,
it's a great station. I've, I've learned a lot.
Uh, oh, yeah, uh, thank you so much. Feel free to, you know, just introduce yourself. And,
uh, yeah, that's more than, more than good. You know, if you, if you liked it, uh, thank you for
your feedback.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Yeah. Thank you very much for your feedback. I thought it was a question for, for Anuj.
No worries.
You know, but, uh, yeah, I mean, you know, uh, just having you here was more than enough, Anuj.
Uh, thank you for making it. Um, and I see we have Max back.
Yeah. Yeah. I think Max is back.
Apologies guys. Uh, I think we mentioned it in the beginning.
Twitter space, uh, might be a bit righty sometimes. Um, yeah, what, what I wanted to say is again,
um, as our partnership with anchor just started, um, we are very happy, um, to spend, uh, the next,
hopefully long time with you together collaborating, um, and, uh, providing better services to, um,
entities that want to build, um, web free services.
Yeah. Um, thank you so much, uh, Max. And, uh, we had Anuj as well with us, um, commented a bit,
uh, you know, uh, after, after you dropped, uh, but it's good. It's good to know that it wasn't,
uh, your phone, uh, you know, dying, uh, out of battery. Uh, it happened to Greg on Tuesday,
uh, you know, we, we promised him that we would send him a, a anchor power bank. And, uh, you know,
I just didn't want the marketing department to, you know, to, to question, to make questions,
right. About why, why is there so many parcels going out? No, that's, that's a great gift.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I guess, I guess, uh, in web three, you, you need it, right? Yeah.
That extra, um, energy, right. For, uh, well, both for, uh, for us, uh, you know, the people and, uh,
as well, the devices, right. Absolutely. And hopefully this power bank soon will become a own,
um, uh, validator powered by Luga notes and anchor technology. This is a new development.
Yeah. I mean, definitely. That'll be, that'll be super cool. And, uh, yeah, I think, uh, that'll be a
wrap to our, uh, enlightening session, right. Uh, with, uh, with max. And I just wanted to extend again,
uh, my gratitude, uh, to max, uh, lead PD of Luga notes, uh, for sharing, you know,
the valuable insights and, uh, answering or questions and the questions from the audience
as well. Um, again, uh, shout out to Jan Suu, you know, for, uh, just making it possible, um,
for checking the dates with us and being super flexible. Thank you both, uh, actually. Um,
and yeah, I mean, I think, you know, uh, your, your passion, uh, shines through and, uh,
we are grateful, you know, for your time and contribution today. Um, and I think it's,
uh, it's a memorable one. Um, and we hope to have you back in the future, right. For, uh,
for a part two, for potential part two. I always, I always say this, um, and someday,
I think we will start with it. Awesome. No, thank you for the kind words. Um, thank you for,
for hosting us today here in this Twitter space. I, myself, and also on behalf of Luga notes,
we really enjoyed it. I hope we could provide some value also to the list. Please reach out to us.
Please reach out to us also at Luga notes.com. Please follow us on Twitter. Um,
you find us and I'm sure we will come for a second drought very soon. Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you so much, uh, Max. Uh, feel free to, you know, give us a follow,
give Luga notes a follow as well. Uh, well, Max personally as well, uh, if you like, you know,
what, uh, what, uh, what he has said today and, uh, yeah, I think maybe,
you know, he might lead something, um, who knows. Right. And, uh, yeah. Thank you again,
uh, Max, uh, thank everyone who joined us today and yeah,
stay tuned for more exciting Twitter spaces session coming our way. Uh, tomorrow,
we have a round table as well with, uh, a bunch of projects joining us. So, um, yeah,
stay tuned everyone. And thank you again, Max and Luga notes. See you in potentially part two.
See you. Thank you. Thank you everyone. Thank you.
