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ApeCo
Recorded: June 6, 2025 Duration: 1:41:52Space Recording
Short Summary
In a pivotal discussion, Garga outlines the vision for ApeCo, emphasizing its role as a project launch aimed at revitalizing the Ape ecosystem through strategic partnerships, grants, and a focus on growth. The community anticipates a vote on the AIP, which could reshape funding mechanisms and hiring practices, signaling a significant shift in the governance of ApeCoin.
Full Transcription
Music Thank you. it was james or quit i saw them both doing some stuff i think they did they hacked you or something
somebody yeah somebody hacked me it's either James or Quit. I saw them messing around.
Yeah, sorry about that.
Yeah, you were saying, Garbert?
Yeah, hopefully I...
What was the last thing that you guys remember me saying?
Let's start there.
That you were transferring all ApeCoin to my wallet for safekeeping.
There you go.
Yeah, just that's the point.
Now,
did I talk about
how we're thinking of this entity
as like a non-stock type of entity?
Did you hear that at least?
Yes, yes, we heard that.
Oh, drop button.
Amazing.
All right, so,
and the question,
Doshi, maybe you can just throw out the question again
so we can recenter everybody and then we can take this.
Okay, sure.
Yeah, so what is the core purpose of ApeCo
and how does it expand beyond just being a funding mechanism
for the Ape ecosystem?
Sure.
So I think there is a defensive posture
and an offensive posture for,
for Apeco.
I think one of the most unanimous things that we were seeing on Twitter
over the past weeks and months,
really,
you know,
since the inception of the Dow is feeling like spend is not optimized.
Good ideas,
some good ideas that people really believed in weren't getting funded.
And then some poor ideas were getting money either through, you know, popularity contests,
knowing the right, you know, knowing other big holders and scratching each other's back
or what have you.
And so for me, it's just as important that this thing be a really
smart funding vehicle as it is for it to also just frankly, spend less than, you know, other versions
of the DAO. It's like, we don't want to add, you know, anytime you're adding selling pressure to a
token, you need to do that with
like full confidence that you're growing the network and increasing the value here.
And if not, like the shit will just go to zero.
Just like so many other tokens in the past that have spent their treauries out, you know,
spent their treasuries out, you know, and wind up in a poor place. So I'm bullish on the idea of
and, and, uh, wind up in a poor place.
having tighter capital controls, way more accountability, and milestone grants for
funding stuff. And there's also a core team of folks, you know, some newer than others who have been getting their arms around eight point
and eight chain,
who I know have been working their asses off.
but the structure of this thing isn't,
isn't necessarily one that's like built to succeed as it has been.
And,
I think, sorry, my dog's freaking out. succeed as it has been. And, um, I think,
sorry, my dog's freaking out. I gotta let him out. Um,
yeah, I want it to be both a funding mechanism, but I also want it to be able to be
an advisor, uh, to projects and help push marketing and help people win.
The goal of this thing is to make ApeCoin win,
either by spending less, spending more smartly,
or advising projects to help make them win.
Awesome.
What's your vision for ApeCoin, and how does this AIP align with or reshape that future?
shape that future?
This...
I, you know,
ApeCoin was born out of Bored Ape Yacht Club,
the aspect of BOIC
that
was a surprise, but that also
I think we've captured unlike any other community in crypto, frankly.
It's really like two big things for me.
One is just how active and engaged and creative and entrepreneurial our community is.
Apes want to make stuff they want to make
businesses they want to shit post they want to like make with their ip that aspect of it completely
took off and the other is that boic brings people together in the real world and there's like
real world experiences and things you know we we move outside of of crypto in a way that's
unlike anything else out there.
And that leads to a lot of cultural relevance,
has led to a ton of cultural relevance
for BYC over the years.
ApeCoin should be helping
to kind of supercharge
both those aspects of things.
It's how do we do more stuff
in the real world?
Whether that's supercharging events like ApeFest and making them broader,
making aspects of them that are broader and more accessible to more people.
Are there ways for ApeCoin to participate in and accelerate things that we're doing on the Yuga side from the IRL Clubhouse side?
But also just are there ways for us to recognize and accelerate folks who are doing things, whether that's from a restauranting perspective, a merch perspective, other things, just like the people who are out there crushing it, getting this thing in front of real people's eyeballs so that we
grow outside of our echo chamber. And it's been a long time, you know, it's a painful process
these past, you know, four years having a, you know, no founder wants to sit on their hands and watch somebody else manage or,
or mismanage, you know, their baby. And in a lot of ways,
that's kind of what we felt like we had to do.
And so I don't know that I have every answer here day one,
but I'm very excited to like get my hands deeper in this thing. And it's a process we've done over the past year to some extent, you know, frankly, a change just would not have happened if, you know, a year ago when I came back as CEO, we weren't like, fuck it, we're just going to get in there and help push this thing and fix it and make it better.
to get in there and help push this thing and fix it and make it better um and i think if we
were able to have true ownership of parts of the process um from the beginning that we would just
have a much better product and i think that's the main thing to look forward to
garga absolutely love to hear that as an ape holder i'm really excited to see like
as like i'm excited to see what ape code does for the bayc for other side for ape chain now a few
community members though the last day i've been asking about like what does ape co mean for people
who just hold ape coin can you give us a quick pitch on why people who only hold ape coin should be excited for this yeah um i think that's a huge part of it i think ape chain is obviously like
the let me let me re-rack here a second and sorry i'm a little like frazzled i feel like i was
i was speaking better and then i got rugged and now I'm trying to get my head together ApeCoin with
not just like
a social DAO that's funding
disparate projects without
any kind of core to them, we now have
a permissionless blockchain
that people can deploy to
that has its own thriving NFT community.
And ApeCoin and ApeCoin,
the best version of the ApeCoin DAO
and the future of it, I think, as ApeCo
is how can we be giving an unfair advantage to the highest caliber
builders on ApeChain and making deals where we're helping to fund and kind of replenish
that treasury so that we can go out and make more. That's the goal here at the end of the day is like,
how do you create a flywheel where you're bringing builders,
creatives, game devs, and others onto ApeChain,
doing it in a really powerful way where you're helping them get a ton of
eyeballs and replenishing the treasuries that you can go out and do it again. And so I think the ApeCo's job is as much about like,
it's to find, fund, nurture,
and help make win some of the highest caliber projects,
hold them accountable every step of the way,
and make deals so that we're replenishing the treasury.
That said, I think for a chain to succeed,
you need a really killer app.
An L2 is not a tremendous moat on its own.
We see a new one every week, it seems like, this year.
And you can make improvements to the UI and to the UX.
But at the end of the day, the real moat is in having an app that is unique to that chain in some way or uniquely suited to it or to the culture community of that chain.
or uniquely suited to it or to the culture community of that chain.
And frankly, that's what Yuga's been trying to build with OtherSide
is a platform that's home to our own first-party games and experiences,
but it's also home to third-party devs
that are building AAA experiences of their own on top of it.
And we want them to come monetize it and, um, and reinvest back into it.
Like that's the whole point of building a, a web three platform rather than, you know,
a web two metaverse is to allow people that composability to, to come in and monetize
without, you know, calling me up and knowing that the rules are set, you know, from a smart
contract perspective.
So they don't feel like they're going to get rugged
from an Apple or whatever rev share.
And I think in order for ApeCoin to really succeed,
it's going to take a unique app
that doesn't exist anywhere else
in order to help like make it truly sticky
and from the Yuga side we're doing that with other side and we've got all the funding we
need there I think there's interesting things that Apeco can do to fund other third-party
builders to come take a crack at it and I think it's also ApeCo's job to figure out where are the other really sticky apps?
Where do we want to win?
You can't chase two rabbits, basically.
You've got to go after one thing and go after it hard.
And I think that's ApeCo's job,
is to figure out where can we have our own special moat.
And I think that kind of, if you crack that,
then the ApeCoin value accrual is just a natural aspect of winning.
Totally agreed.
I agree.
I love the stuff around builders.
And obviously we're surrounded a lot by builders
and people who are trying to submit and get involved with the DAO
by putting up their unique visions.
So like, I guess the question is,
is like how can builders from around the swamp and the Apecoin ecosystem get
involved with Apeco and what kind of projects do you see Apeco funding?
Cause you mentioned like high quality, but obviously that's like subjective.
How do you plan to make sure that everyone is like seen and heard in this process yeah absolutely and look i don't want to um i don't want to over promise or get
people's expectations out of whack this thing is happening as quickly as i can help it um hopefully
in my opinion the vote passes and we can step confidently into
this new operating model for ApeCoin. And as much as, again, as much as this thing is a funding
vehicle, it's also about being a really smart, you know, just being really smart with a treasury
so that we feel confident we've got a
ton of swings at that. The worst thing that we could do is go out there and make it rain on
50 different things right at the start and all of a sudden, and then, you know, be looking at
ourselves two years later, like, oh shit, we, you know, we blew our load. And that's happened
innumerable times to tons of different chains and, you know chains in our ecosystem and you never hear from them again.
So I'm building
BOIC and other side
to be 10, 20,
50 year projects. Like how do we keep this shit
how do we have a really long term
view of what we're doing?
And Apecoin needs that same kind of...
It just needs that same kind of perspective,
which isn't granted as naturally
when you have special counsel folks for small periods
and some of the stuff that we were seeing in the DAO.
So in terms of who to get involved with,
I think my DMs are obviously open to anybody
in the Ape community that I follow.
We're going to get more structured
around the kinds of proposals that we're looking for, the kinds of builders that
we want. And I think it's our job to put out a lot of comms so that folks know where to go.
But again, this isn't, you know, this is much about us taking a little bit of a slower
ramp up so that we're spending smart than it is about, you know, writing 50
checks all at once. If the reality is the ApeCoin DAO as it exists with all these things,
probably that if folks are just looking to eke out money for random unstructured projects and
all that, like the ApeCoin DAO was always going to be a better version of that.
But we've seen the impact that's had on the community
and we've seen the impact that's had on the ApeCoin price.
Appreciate that, Darga.
Now, quick question.
I love hearing about the long-term vision,
but I would like to kind of like center us back in real quick
about like the here and now.
So a lot of community members after your AIP was posted started asking about the banana bill and they were wondering,
is that done if this gets passed? So in your view, I'd love to hear like, what do you think
about that? And then also the special counsel elections, in your view, should that just be
done? Should people still be running? What do you think about those two things?
What do you think about those two things?
Sure.
So on the banana bill, if there is, you know, if there's a contractual agreement that the banana bill, I guess, or the foundation has, then I anticipate that that unspoken for funds that exist at Banana Bill and basically anywhere
in the treasury, aside from the couple of places that were enumerated in the AIP. So there's
11 and a half million that goes to make sure that the last bit of staking is honored and then there's 10 million that stays in the foundation to make
sure that it can honor its obligations as well. Everything else though would be going into APECO.
So that's the banana bill funds and you know everything else. In terms of the special counsel
you know I don't know that it's up to me the the reality is though that
i've seen so so much support for this idea uh over the last 24 hours and the last week and
weeks before that um and frankly i've seen uh very very few people against it. And the few that are seem to be, you know,
people that would be either without a job or not get a job that they want. So
I think it makes sense for the community to vote on this important AIP rather than we get people wasting their time on something that would not
exist should this AIP were to pass. Love it. Appreciate it, Garga. Now, another quick question.
So everyone's been super excited about ApeCo, and I think people are just kind of curious,
like, who exactly would be, like, running ApeCo in your view or, like, in your world? Like,
are there any, like, businesses who are going to be a part of the
team? Who's going to be a part of that? It's really important that we keep this a really
nimble, small, lean team, especially at the start where you're setting the groundwork and how you
work together and who's responsible for what. I think Cameron has been very new to uh the ape foundation but he's been
instrumental for me in understanding kind of where where things are um and uh gathering up the the
history so i see him as being an integral part of that team.
I don't know what the title would be.
And I think, you know, like I said before, there are some really key folks.
As much as people want to poo-poo the foundation or certain people at ApeCoin or something like that, I think that's mistaken.
There's some things that you've got to blame on the process i know many of these people they um they care deeply about ape coin they want to see it win
i've worked with them in the past and in different aspects and i think they would crush it um at ape
co so i think there would be some definitely some familiar faces. It's just a new structure to help make sure that we're creating the most value and being defensive about what we're not going to fund.
forward, obviously we were looking at
a company
that can move faster. This seems
to be a theme that
is brought up a lot. So what's the
timeline on this AIP and getting Apeco
up and running? And what do you think,
when do you think we'll be voting on this? And then
when will the business be open
just to give
an overall timeline, if you could?
Yeah.
I'd like to see it go up for vote
next week.
I think it doesn't
make sense to be in
limbo.
I think
getting that clarity out one way or
another that this is either something that everybody wants
to do or not is super important.
So hopefully we
see it go up for vote next week.
And from a timeline of getting AVECO spun up, I mean, you know, as fast as humanly possible.
I mean, there's some, again, you know, having active discussions with
legal on what the right exact structure of this thing is. But, you know, if there's,
I've gotten to know a lot of lawyers over the years, I think we can move very quickly to get
that done. You know, I think we're looking at the, in the weeks, not months to get running.
Love it. Appreciate it, Garga. Now, at this time in the space, we're going to start like inviting
the audience to come on up. So if you have a question for Garga, please request and come on up. And as people are requesting Garga, I just have a quick final question for you. Do you have anything else you want to add or say? Is there anything that you think we missed today, but you really want to make sure everyone understands about ApeCo, your AIP, and ApeCoin going forward?
I'm not sure
I just want to make it clear
this isn't the one and done
the only time you're going to hear from me
I'm on Twitter, I see your messages
I've tried to reply to the ones that
jump out at me as really needing immediate clarity
I'm going to be on
Coffee with the Captain next week
I think on Tuesday morning.
So, um, I'm sure those guys would love to hear any questions you have and I can get
to them there.
And, um, yeah, um, I'm around and, you know, I'm in some of these big Twitter group chats
trying to speak more plainly on things than sometimes I can, you know, on the timeline. And, um, you know,
so I'm, I'm here. Appreciate that. So guys hear about he's here, please DM him. If you got
anything you want to ask him or add or say, just wanted to set some quick context about the
asking of questions. So because Garga only has about, looks like about nine minutes left,
we want to limit the questions
to about one minute each
and one per person.
So it's fair to everyone who's up here.
And then we will post a follow-up document
that will gather all the questions.
And that way it gives Garga
an appropriate amount of time
to get together with his team
and answer all the questions
that we missed today. Yeah. Ines, do you want to go? Sure thing. Hey, Garga.
How are you?
Hey, good.
There's a rule in the 8.0 that an AIP can't go up within three months after implementation of another AIP.
The revamp AIP hasn't been fully implemented yet.
Is there a way around that rule?
I'm not a
I'm not a lawyer
I think when the community
has overwhelmingly
looking for
a change here
that it behooves everybody to
give them a
chance to vote and
decide on that so
I think it would be foolish to let something like that
get in the way of people being able to vote
what they want.
Thanks for your question.
Big Bull, do you have a question
for Garga
in about one minute or so?
Okay, we'll move on to squiddy while big bull maybe comes back around squiddy did you have a question you can one minute oh yeah very quick one what's up garga what's up apes how long has
the word cruft been in your vocabulary and um how often have you been using it lately i'll hang up and listen i don't know i
mean i you know i uh i don't know i'm a i'm a book editor and a poet by uh you know my previous
fucking life so sometimes these words uh i i think people know them um and they don't but it's a good
word i'm glad that i've introduced it to our vocabulary and people are going to get around
with it um i'm obsessed i help help out some folks with their crosswords.
Please drop us like one word a week if you can.
Big Bull, I'm going to circle back to you.
I saw your hand went back.
Can you hear me okay now?
Yeah, I can hear you.
Okay, perfect.
So following on from this point of less craft,
I had to look up that word too, and more efficiency,
why not just request to sunset the ApeCoin DAO, but keep the Ape Foundation, which is already
a good legal structure in Cayman, right?
Because you mentioned you want to be a non-profit or a foundation, right?
Because you mentioned you want to be a non-profit or a foundation, right?
So is it that you're considering maybe it being in U.S.
because of U.S. regulation on tokens that are not from U.S.?
Or what's the logic of that?
Because clearly the fastest thing to do would be vote to put it in the foundation.
We've done that process before.
And 25% was already moved.
It would be easy to do that. I mean, the only difference is if it's in the foundation,
then it's controlled by who's on the committee, right? And so that would be yourselves or anyone
with 10 million ApeCoin, including other parties like Animoca. So is there any reason that you want it to be purely Yuga versus other ape stakeholders?
Yeah.
I think the goal here is more around, I don't know that it's as animated by legal as it is by, frankly, like branding and signaling a reset.
Like, we need to make a big change here for the benefit of ApeCoin.
And I think a half measure is not the right move.
People want to feel confident that this isn't more of the same this isn't groundhog's day at
the ape coin dow and so i think moving to a corporate structure um it's just the right
move from a signaling the reset uh you know frankly the brand. And also there's been a lot of talk
by different folks lately.
This is a move that a lot of
other companies are looking at.
I think A16Z happened to put out something
literally the day after I
suggested this as a path
of companies moving towards away from foundations and into
corporate structures and all the reasons why that's positive. So for me, it's really like
the soft reasons. I just want to fucking move on from the foundation and the Dow and have
something new that people can feel confident about and
understand um but i think there's also you know legal reasons why it makes a lot of sense
thanks for your question big bull i'm going to move on to nft drew if you have a question you
can quickly ask because we're running up on time about three minutes left yeah i'll keep it super
simple super quick.
Appreciate y'all doing this, Gary.
Good to hear you talking about this.
Super basic question.
I mean, obviously, as it sounds like, you know, the ApeCo move, I'm in full support of that.
Definitely in the no more dumb shit mantra.
But with the ApeCo and, you know, whether the banana bill, however that unfolds, like, I'd love to hear your thoughts or your opinion on how are you going to balance you know obviously investing in big shit that'll make ape coin and ape chain grow versus also
looking at you know maybe the smaller daps or the smaller teams that have that super super super
large potential and obviously i'm assuming that would be in the form of grants with milestones
so it's not like you just get this big ton of money and then you never deliver 100 and i think what we've seen historically in napcoin dao is there's been some structures that
have been more successful than others um to kind of help fund and promote the little guy you know
there's plenty of people that maybe did not have a successful aP, who weren't able to like, you know, whip up the votes for that kind of thing, but who got funding through like ThinkApe, for example.
And I think having a really clear perspective, a bucket of being like, hey, this, you know, here's, you know, maybe it's not exactly ThankApe. I know that, you know, some folks have left that team lately and all that.
And so I'm not sure it would be exactly with them,
but I like that structure
where you're able to allocate a certain amount of funds
to a part of the org that's saying like,
I just want to go out there and help people get reach and you
know my job is just to work with the smaller teams and then you can have other parts of the org that
are like yeah you know it's like a different kind of a different profile of person that is out there
making relationships and partnership deals with a triple a game dev than there is somebody who
knows just how important spaces are to our community and how you know folks like phil
back are doing board media or other you know board a gazette for example like these i think are
really valuable public goods for our community and we need to like make sure that they're
continuing um and of course we can have like make sure that they're continuing.
And of course we can have like milestone grants and all that kind of stuff,
but a hundred percent we, yeah,
there's no intention to like sunset some of those really important grant
aspects.
Awesome. Thanks so much. Justin,
did you have a question that you can limit to like one minute?
Yeah. Hey, what's up Garga? Yeah. Quick question. Justin, did you have a question that you can limit to like one minute? Yeah.
Hey, what's up, Garga?
Yeah, quick question.
So, you know, with TGE being a significant consideration for a lot of chain supporting
projects, you know, my view, there's a strong argument that actually the better route would
be to corral support around more uses of, let's say, ApeCoin than just a gas token to
be integral to the project,
to the ventures themselves, and then reimagining what currency actually is.
And then you have more use cases, more demand, same supply, price go up for everyone.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that, whether you think supporting projects that
are going to have TG events
is a positive thing, or do you think it's more positive, everything else being equal
to fuel more use cases all around ApeCoin?
Yeah.
Both are super important. I think ApeChain is in a good place in that it is the native gas token for the chain. And, you know, we all buy NFTs denominated in Ape, and it's like the one currency that you need to go do everything that you want to do on the chain. um the blur blast model of getting people to farm a new token but then when the token comes
there's not actually any real using you know it's just like cool here's the reward now you can sell
it it's just that's been really bad i haven't seen that work um the other thing that's important
though is that you know this new administration seems open very clearly open to people building an economic model into the protocol.
You know, we've had many years of DeFi protocols and things that were terrified of or getting letters in the mail from the SEC.
Anytime they would propose something like a buyback and burn of some kind or other kind of protocol mechanisms where you can
generate value for the whole ecosystem. I'm thinking a lot about those. I don't have the
answer, frankly, but I think that's a huge part of what we're going to see in this next phase of
crypto over the next two, three years. And I want to see protocols on ape chain be um experimenting with economic models for tokens
um and to the degree that it's possible i want to see us doing it with our own
apps on ape chain and if there's ways to you know introduce it into the token itself, I think that's worth looking at as well.
Aurelius, can you hit me with a question really quick?
I know Garga's got to run after this.
Yeah, of course. Thank you.
Afternoon, Garga.
My question is simply,
how can we as a broader community
meaningfully contribute towards shaping
the future of ApeCoin and ApeChain and not just as holders, but as co-builders alongside those already involved?
Absolutely. Look, I think supporting other folks that are doing bold experiments on ApeChain, people who are coming up with novel mechanisms for games with nfts you
know generating attention with nfts in interesting ways like to me the biggest thing is like you know
especially as a founder it's like you gotta you gotta live um the community yourself. It was a painful lesson when trying to find management
to help take us to the next level.
Unless you are immersed in this community,
know everybody,
and are willing to experiment with the things that are coming on chain,
it's just you're not really benefiting yourself
or benefiting the ecosystem correctly.
So I really appreciate everybody who's been going on spaces,
minting new projects, you know, and keeping an open mind
about the kinds of things that we can do on H-Chain.
You know, we're what,
seven, eight months into this, this is like still very early days. And we're in the midst of a huge tectonic shift.
And then when it comes to crypto in the U S and I think nobody's cracked this
quite yet. And I think ApeChan has a huge opportunity to do that.
Well, great. Thank you so much for all the questions.
And like I said, guys, if you have more questions, we're going to be taking more and sending them over to Garga so him and his team have a chance to answer them.
We are going to leave the space open as well so people can come up and have a discussion.
We just want to respect Garga's time because he did give us a 45-minute time to be able to be with us.
But Garga, I really appreciate you coming by and sharing your thoughts, your vision.
And I think a lot of people are excited and obviously believe in the team
and their ability to, you know, take over the world with the club.
So, appreciate your time.
Yeah, Garga, just before you, just promise to these guys that you will try to get all those questions answered.
I'll be sending
them over after the speech absolutely and I'll like I said to I'll be on coffee
with the captain I think on Tuesday 9 a.m. I'll try and do like you know at
least a couple more spaces next week and I'll look at potentially answering
what I can just in writing as well. But yeah, hit me up with those.
Thanks, guys.
We'll pass those questions to Katten.
And maybe they can get some answers there as well.
But yeah, everybody, if you didn't get your questions answered,
we'll be doing that throughout the week.
Thank you, Garvel, for showing up.
Thanks, guys.
See ya. thank you Gargoyle for showing up thanks guys cheers cheers
cheers
cheers
cheers
cheers
cheers cheers cheers
cheers
okay that wasn't me because I don't even know how to do that
that was me
anyway
I even had to prepare today
I had to take it almost seriously
one minute of fame so the by the so the, um, by the way, for these questions,
writer, we need to, um, probably adjust them.
Cause some of them are actually answered. I mean,
he's basically said this isn't, isn't divesting.
It's going to be, uh,
some kind of structure where they're not going to be taking the funds out.
They won't be taking a dividend right so i think we
should probably we may be make a google doc and then we can um see which ones are already answered
you know earnest some of those are answered right yeah uh also uh we're um the working document that
dutchy and kyle have been professionally doing they've they've been striking out the stuff that we'll gladly share a lot with you as well before sharing it out but uh you heard the man we will be sending
it to to garga we also will be sending it to captain and any other spaces he will be jumping
on as well yeah definitely shout out to dutchy for really going hard on putting that document together
i'm more of a i like to look at the document and like shoot out ideas here and there dutchy
went all in i woke up this morning guys now i didn't know dutchy's over in europe so i i thought
he did it all night i was like oh my god this guy's insane because i was like i stay up late
but this guy he's something else but yeah shout out Dutchie. Um, he definitely put a lot of work in putting this document together and
really harvesting all those community questions over the past couple of days.
Yeah. Just to give some context. So people know, I, I definitely didn't want to explain it all
right in the beginning because I know Gargis like sort of time was ticking there. Um, but you know,
we literally transcribed all of the spaces for the last three
days or the last 24 hours. So if you were on the other space, there was one, you know, with Rita,
like all the ones that people were discussing this, including Big Bull and Ernest, you guys
were on those. So a lot of those questions, there was also all the comments from both discourse,
There was also all the comments from both discourse, discord, Twitter, and then essentially trying to look at it under how many of these questions are the same, how much is answered in the AIP proposal as well.
And then how do you fit that in the framework of 30 minutes with the allowance of 15 minutes to be split between people to ask questions?
of 15 minutes to be split between people to ask questions.
It's a, you know, even the cut down list was like 20 something questions.
And you need to give a time for Garga to respond.
And you don't want to cut Garga off in one minute into a conversation.
If, you know, if he wants to speak about his vision for three, four minutes,
then, you know, you kind of have to allow that as well.
So what do you want?
What do you want?
Pat on the back?
No, no.
I'm just doing the context of how we came to the question.
Please, everyone, give him a heart emoji.
Give Dutchie a heart.
No, I'm joking.
No, no.
They're not my questions.
The community's questions.
That's all I wanted to say.
I didn't come up with those questions.
They were all curated from the community.
That's all I wanted to say.
I love you, Dutchie.
I love you, Dutchie.
Thank you for everything you do, bro.
Thank you for everything you do.
I didn't get to ask any of my questions.
Thank you, Dutchie. Thank you, Dutchie. Thank you, Dutch bro. Thank you for everything. I didn't get to ask any of my questions. Thank you, Dutchie.
Thank you, Dutchie.
Everyone just said it.
Thank you, Dutchie.
Let's go over to OX Simple Farmer real quick
behind the Clutch Markets account.
How's it going, man?
What did you think of the space?
And what are your thoughts?
Hey, GM guys.
Just want to check.
Can you guys hear me?
No, we can't hear you.
Alright, just making sure.
So I thought that was really awesome, and I think Garga's action shows that something's brewing on ApeChain,
and it should be a call to action for all of us on the chain to put out more products, put out the word,
let people know that we're about to be doing big things
here we have like obviously that huge mintatars event tomorrow i think it's going to be awesome
everybody on ct should know that's happening um and we need like obviously everybody on ape chain
has great connections to other people who are outside of ape chain and i think if we show them
things like the event going on tomorrow like the the products we're building on ApeChain, that we can onboard new users. And then it can be a perfect storm,
right? Because if we work in a synergistic fashion with what Garg is doing over at ApeCo,
we can really make noise here, guys. And I mean, and we only live once. And we're not going to try,
you know, what's the point of anything? So I say, let's put max effort into this, just everybody.
Absolutely love it.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Absolutely agree.
I'd like to, Ernest, I'd love to hear your opinion and your take on what was said.
And if it answered some of your questions and how you feel about it.
It does answer my question. answered some of your questions and how you feel about it.
It does answer my question.
My question, you know, the simple question was, was how does this go up within three
months of revamp implementation?
And the answer was, it doesn't matter what the rules say.
We're going to put it up because that's what the community wants.
And that that's telling to me that that tells me that there will be no process there.
It doesn't matter whether the rules are a certain way
and the DAO can vote and empty the coffers.
I mean, I explored this when I, two years ago, I got into the DAO and I explored
this with a, with some sec attorneys and friends of mine. And, and I was like, you know, these,
these DAOs, how they vote and how they work, what's to stop someone from having a hundred
million ape coin and, and voting to distribute all of the assets to me. I said that as like a
hypothetical two years ago and the answer was nothing. There is nothing that would stop anyone
from accumulating enough ApeCoin to push a proposal through that would just empty the treasury. The only thing
that they did come up with is that the executive director in his role now has a ethical obligation
to preserve the assets of the DAO and that wouldn't allow, potentially wouldn't allow an AIP that is passed even by the community to empty the treasury and transfer all of the assets out.
It wouldn't allow that AIP to be implemented.
And so there's a curious kind of a wrinkle there.
Now, all that being said, I hear it.
I hear everyone's criticism.
You're being a lawyer.
You're just being nitpicky.
We just want better things, and this is what we want.
I completely hear all that.
But as an attorney and as a rule of law kind of person, I feel that we shouldn't start down this road
with a bad act. We shouldn't start down this road with doing something that is against the rules,
because that just says that later it won't matter. It won't matter whether somebody says that, yes,
we're going to continue the mission of the banana bill. We're going to continue to fund cool shit.
the mission of the banana bill we're going to continue to to fund cool shit and we're not going
to transfer all of this treasury to to yuga our or our own pockets it just means that hey it doesn't
matter what what people say it's what they do and what they're doing is not what they said they would
do in the beginning just my take and i'm to be everyone, anyone that doesn't know, I'm bored ape for life, man.
I've got I've got a bored ape on one side of my chest and a mutant on the other.
I'm not saying that that Yugo wouldn't do a great job with this.
I'm just saying that we should follow the rules so that it doesn't look bad.
It's kind of like kind of like, OK, here's an example.
Kind of like, okay, here's an example.
It's kind of like somebody stepping out on their wife.
It's kind of like somebody stepping out on their wife.
And yeah, they got a new girlfriend and she's great.
And they're going to have a really great relationship.
But he's leaving the three kids behind.
And it didn't start out so well.
And it might be the greatest thing in the world for them.
But it really is a bad look.
That's just my take.
Right.
Can I make a comment on that?
Of course.
I knew you would because as wives and kids,
you guys are really trying to get me in trouble today.
Yeah.
And on that note,
you know,
it's the,
your feast,
feast day today.
you know,
celebrate where I hope you're having great celebrations and your wife
will forgive you for the rest of the year so that's um the the um i think the analogy is good
in the sense that you know he even said it himself he said we want to make sure that we need a big
change we people shouldn't feel it's more of the same.
We want to move away from the current foundation structure. And he's saying,
for soft reasons, which is kind of like the branding reason, right? And the feel good,
and it's something new, right? So that's fine. But there is a way this can be done that both works win-win. I mean, there was 25% of the treasury,
approximately $30 million already gone to the foundation, right? They mentioned that there's 10 million they need to keep aside for liabilities. So there could be a staged approach where you're
like, okay, you first take 20 million or 15 million, and that would not inviolate any of the other things.
And that can go up.
That one can go up quickly.
It can pass.
It's enough.
15 million is enough to hire those people in, build up the brand, say what they're going to do.
And then, well, that's, I mean, they're not going to spend $15 million in two or three months, right? And then they're at a point where they can, during that phase, do a phase two where they can say,
okay, now you can see the legal structures there.
Now you can see that it's clearly written that this is, that you go, it cannot take, um, dividend out. It's, it's structured as a,
where the term he used, uh, and there was a term nonprofit and there was another term he used
potentially, which was, um, isn't it something good company? What was the term? Someone can
correct me. Um, he used the term for it, right. Um, but effectively, um, public benefit corporation right so whether it's a pbc whether it's a
non-profit where there's a foundation what that can all be done like he said that'll just you
know we got lawyers we we do this stuff quick it should just take a few weeks why not just take 10
mil um go set up that structure set up all all the foundation, move the management people across,
and then say, okay, we said what we're going to do.
The structure's all here.
It's all legally together.
And now we want phase two.
Once we've done phase one, because by the way, what's he saying?
He's saying we should make sure we have funding, which is tranched, funding mechanisms that make win, ape, ape, win with milestone grants.
And so what I would suggest is make this a milestone grant.
Make it phase one, 10 million, set it up.
Phase two, if that's all set up correctly, after three months, phase two can be moving the rest.
Does that not sound like a way that then it's the reputation and there's not going to be any FUD.
It's going to be a healthy way to move forward and to create a win-win.
What do you think?
You know, big ball, I gotta, I gotta say, I just sometimes think like, you know, a lot of people,
I think out there are just looking around and they go, we've been doing the Dow. We've tried
this for about three years now and we are where we are. And I think that everyone is just kind
of interested in a change, whatever change may be. And they're excited to see that Garga and team
are actually stepping in now and trying to do something new. So, I mean, I hear you. And I
think a lot of people hear you, but at the exact same time, I think a lot of people are like,
we're in a spot where people want to take a big swing. And that's basically what I think people
are thinking about right now. They're not, they're just kind of like, I don't want any more of the same.
I want something radically different.
I want to try something new.
And the revamp AIP was exactly that big swing.
Do something different.
Do it new.
Put all voting on chain.
Eliminate administrative review.
We did all that with revamp, with AIP 582.
And it hasn't been implemented yet.
Yeah, well, it wasn't implemented by Yuga, who are the committee or special counsel.
And Yuga didn't request the special counsel to be removed for not implementing it on schedule.
So, you know, so there, yeah, I agree.
But I think the phase thing is reason is reasonable
because then they can quickly do it this aip they have now it's so far away from going to vote
there's so many problems in it it's like half written right now you know and so if you had it
you know a certain amount that's already moved you can do that while the other one comes up right
i mean i don't understand
it's like one rule for people asking for funding and one rule for them asking for funding it's two
just you know two separate rules right but let's be clear it's going to happen it's going to be put
up it's going to go to snapshot seven days and the community is going to vote on it and that's going to be it i i'm
fairly certain of that so um it's it's unfortunate that we start out this way
uh guys i want to go ahead and jump to some more hands so that way it's a evenly balanced
conversation also if you've spoken or asked your questions, if you guys could step down so we can let some more people up.
Thanks, guys.
I'll step down.
Thanks, Ray.
Thanks, you all.
Bye.
Yeah, thanks, Ryder.
Great space.
Thank you, Bordet Gazette and Dutchie.
You have to thank Dutchie twice or three times, please.
He gets all funky like that. Thank you, Dutchie. Thank you, Dutchie. Thank you thank Dutchie twice or three times, please. He gets all funky like that.
Thank you, Dutchie.
Thank you, Dutchie.
Thank you, Dutchie.
No, this is where I'm from.
You guys have been around, some of you, for a lot longer than me
and have a much deeper understanding of how everything's been built over the years.
Lisbon was my first ape fest.
I got my first mutant just before that.
And then I've been in eight chains since then so i've learned to know people but not before my personal experience is
that i've never seen a dow that's functional and that works i think it this is my personal opinion
right um i i think that it's like communism like communism is actually
if you read the paper it's a good idea
everybody has something, nobody starves
we're all equal
but it doesn't work at all
in reality
because there's always someone that's in charge
there's always a group of people that have control
there's always a group of people that decide things
and that's how a DAO becomes
and I can talk through through personal experience and
experience of friends there are people that have left eight chain and there are people that have
been turned off eight chain and eight coin because of the way that the dow functions and the decisions
that have happened and everything else so i'm a hundred percent for a business approach and this
is what i wrote you know in the beginning to cam and and on on writers first space um why have a multi-million
or billion dollar company that isn't run properly like a multi-million dollar billion company why
try and have a dow system and invite people to sort of come into roles that are they might be
really good at it but they also might just be someone who's been around for four years and
everybody likes and is a nice person um that might not be the best person in the job.
Run it like a business, have a recruitment agency, have a job description, have responsibilities that if you don't meet, you don't have that job anymore.
But do it properly, do it seriously. And I see in my little bubble, that's how I see this progressing.
and I see in my little bubble that's how I see this progressing I think that it's the it's the
right way forward I can agree that the way it's been announced and the processes and things like
that might not be in place yet but I'm gonna be really geeky now and quote Harry Potter and it's
it comes down to do you trust Dumbledore I trust Dumbledore right it comes down to do you
trust Gaga as CEO and what he's saying and the reasons why and I think that he would not have
said what he said without an explanation of what happens for the special council nominees
without a clear description of how it goes forward or any of, if there wasn't a lot more to this story, which we don't
understand yet, both with the amount of money that's gone missing, misused, given to projects
that never did anything. And because of the way the contracts were written, that money is not
claimable back, there's no legal recourse, that money is lost. And I think because of that,
and other things that we all don't know yet
this is absolutely necessary and I think that it's really easy for us to speculate even me now
I'm speculating right it's really easy for us to speculate and say this is wrong well that's wrong
we could do this that could be better whatever else but I don't think we have the full story
and I think the person that does have the full story is Gaga and a few others and it
comes down to if you trust that or not and I do so I'm in for it but I also do understand people
that you know are talking about if the process is done correctly and things like that but
in all I'm really excited by it I think this is a this is a good move forward for us maybe I'm
naive I'm new etc but that's that's us. Maybe I'm naive, I'm new,
et cetera. But that's sort of my view on things that I really wanted to sort of just come up and
share. Would you agree to having a crunched funding in one AIP? How would that sound to you?
Like we give 10 million and if in three months they've done it and they've set it up as they
said and to trust Dumbledore, then the whole stage two goes through without a second vote.
How does that sound?
Oh, I haven't thought about it, but I'm open, yeah,
I'll be open to different sort of ways of implementing it
and processing it that, you know, the majority of people
that are smarter than me and, you know, think that that's the way forward. I'm not against it in any way, uh, shape or form. I just think
that the direction is correct. Um, and I think there's, yeah, there's a lot more to the story.
So it's hard to judge it properly, um, without all the information maybe.
Appreciate that Don Diablo. Thank you for coming up and saying your piece.
I want to go over to Machi real quick.
I saw Machi come up here.
So, Machi, what's on your mind?
What are you thinking?
Where are we going?
Hey, thanks for having me up.
It looks really good.
It looks really good. I heard the tranche thing. No
tranche thing. That means someone else needs to decide when we give Garga and Apeco the
rest of the funding, and why would we trust anybody to do that? I mean, honestly, the
bottom line is, like you said, trust Dumbledore. Yeah. I'd rather go with Garga.
Let's call it what it is.
Like, Bored Apes, everything's been doing a lot better since Garga came back.
I'm not going to name names, but whoever the professional CEO was before from Blizzard or whatever.
You know, he did the best job he could, but it sucked.
And it was under, you know, poor regulations.
I mean, like, we had Biden trying to kill off crypto.
So, you know, ApeCoin DAO, when it launched, was on shaky structure, right?
It was, I think Yat wrote it with, you know, Horizon.
And you guys forget who was running the DAO before with the administrators
and like in Cayman Islands, whatever.
You think the guys, the Cayman Island people know how to run a company,
a DAO or even any kind of Web3 project when none of those people were qualified to run a DAO.
I've been in DAOs forever and I never seen any of those names involved in a DAO ever before.
So we had a bunch of noobs running shit.
It didn't go well.
You know, I went through the AIP process more than once. I submitted many
times. First few times, I never got an answer for like three, four, five months. Somehow, by a
miracle, the entire DAO banded together. Now, let's not call the entire DAO, but about 60% of
the DAO banded together to get AIP 304 through the damn DAO. Other than that, every DAO, every AIP I submitted never, you know,
didn't really see a light of day, didn't get much feedback,
and any feedback I got was shitty.
Like, it was just from people that are total noobs
and weren't qualified to do anything.
Now, whatever you want to say about Garga, he's the founder of Bored Apes.
And is he qualified to run this Ape Co instead of whoever we have now that you want to be the ones to put in charge of tranching it out to Garga and them?
No, you don't tranch it out to them.
We're firing everybody in the past, and we're going to hire someone new.
That's kind of the simple way to look at it.
And from a quick track record from what I can see um he's focusing on a few projects
right uh ape chain ape coin board ape yacht club and something else another you know other deeds
is is uh in my opinion ape chain ape coin um or falls under that So the focus is really clear. I like it.
I like that he's focusing, or the whole you guys focusing,
and just we got rid of, we didn't get rid of it,
but we set, you know, Moodbirds free.
We set the CryptoPunks free.
We set, you know, the MeBits free.
I think those are great moves to allow those communities
to do their own thing.
And, you know, the goodwill is there.
You know, like Garga, again, set everybody free.
I think the punks, they always get crazy on Yuga and stuff,
but they forgot that if it wasn't Yuga, it was Larva Labs.
And Larva Labs didn't give them any rights to their PFP or any of their art,
where now they own their own where now they own their own
art and they own their own pfps um because you know thank thank garga and yuga and therefore
but going to where we're going to go next and just shutting out a doubt you guys see this at
least your ape coins not being burned away giving out salaries you know uh you, it's just it's it's at least more focused. And whatever process is to kill the doubt is the right one.
There's no reason to put in more bureaucracy or any kind of thing like, oh, that's not Web 3 enough.
Dude, the doubt before wasn't very Web 3.
You guys just didn't know it.
For those of you that were blind, it was bad.
Like it was being
run out of cayman islands by some shady motherfuckers that you don't even know they're
just paying themselves huge amounts of money like at yuga at least they're a u.s company
you know garga i don't see him handing his friends money i don't see him doing no weird shit
the motherfucker's legit and again he's qualified to do ApeCo. He's qualified.
Go look at anything we did in the past and who's going to run it and what.
Were they qualified to run it?
Do you want them to continue running it?
It's a hard stop.
Let's move on.
Move fast.
Honestly, this last couple days is the only time I thought about buying ApeCoin again.
I thought about buying ApeCoin again. I already have a huge bag of bored apes. I still have them.
I already have a huge bag of board apes.
I still have them.
The one thing I want to say about before I, you know, jump off or whatever, there is the AIP304,
which was the damn DAO digital art movement. We got like over 200 plus apes, badass apes.
It's priceless. It's a priceless collection. So again, Ape again ape coin the staking is going to run out
in a few months meaning like you're not going to get yield on your ape coin anymore we've already
migrated the damn token and the damn staking system over to ape chain so if you state your
ape coin you can still get a yield on your ape coin you can earn digital art movement tokens the
damn token which um know, before when we
wrote the AIP, it was like, oh, you get to curate the collection. Nah, bitch. Now there's
a nice regulatory system out there. Everybody's cool with, with tokens and shit. So now, you
know, if you own the damn token, you own 200 plus apes and you can get it for not free.
You just got to kind of pay a little gas, whatever the gas is on ApeCain, which is very cheap.
Stake your fucking ApeCoin and get your damn token.
And the emissions are going on for, you know, I don't know.
I haven't checked it.
I think it was five to seven years from now until the emissions run out of the
damn token.
But, again, then there's some kind of yield you can get for your ApeCoin for
now.
I think there's other projects out there that can speak for themselves.
But for digital art movement, all you got to do is stake your ApeCoin and you get some.
So that's the benefit of owning ApeCoin.
I have a question for you really quick. Really quick, with the support of Garga and Apeco, would you consider transferring those
assets that are held in DAM back to Apeco?
Yeah, if it's Garga, it's possible.
If he talked to me, we figured out the details, sure.
Anybody else, fuck, no man, I don't trust anybody, anybody in the Apecoin DAO with those
fucking assets.
It's in multi-sig it's held by anything
better than the apecoin down ever could have done and uh the people there are rough i think that
would be a really good way to show your support only garga ernest nobody else that's what that's
what i mean if this passes and garga's running ApeCo, I think that it's a really good way for you to show your support.
Yeah.
And I'll tell you exactly how that would go down.
We would take the DAM tokens,
and we'd switch them for some of the ApeCoin in the fucking ApeCo,
and then we'd hand over 200-plus Apes and all that stuff into a DAO
owned by the ApeCoin holders.
ApeCo.
Yeah, ApeCo and ApeCoin holders. Well, it's not owned by ApeCoin holders. ApeCo. Yeah, ApeCo and ApeCoin holders.
Well, it's not owned by ApeCoin holders.
I mean, if we transfer everything to ApeCo,
it's going to be held by ApeCo.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
That's what the proposal is.
Yeah, that's what the proposal is.
ApeCoin holders aren't going to have any say in anything.
So for me, if I was to transfer Apecoin holders aren't going to have any say in anything. So for me, if I was a transfer of Apeco, then I would get the digital art token holders some equity in the Apeco.
That's what I would do, Ernest.
But he said it might not be an equity company.
He said he was looking at being a public benefit corp.
That's his own words, right?
That's his own words, right?
Well, I would figure a way to make sure people that stake their ApeCoin that earned DAM tokens or continue to have DAM tokens get value because that's the way I roll.
Yeah, they might get value, but basically he's saying no dividend.
He's saying Yuga, this is not a play to increase the market value directly of Yuga by transferring a couple hundred million dollars
assets. Yeah, we want to increase the value of Ape Chain or Ape Coin. Or let's just keep it simple,
Ape Coin and Bored Apes. That's how I see Ape Coin. Yeah, so he's saying that's the aim and
it's not for Yuga to be like, oh, they can just dividend it out. He made that. That was, I think, the biggest statement he made today.
And I agree.
That would definitely be the way to do it.
If it was direct, I think that doesn't make sense.
I appreciate you coming up here, Machi, today.
And I really appreciate you reminding everybody about DAM.
You know, this space moves so quickly.
And I think so many people forget that they can actually own a piece of
that 200 apes or whatever,
however many it is nowadays.
And that whole collection,
because,
you know,
I mean,
guys,
it's on a chain.
You can go over to the match.
Is it damn doubt.org?
If I'm not mistaken.
And you literally go over there,
you quickly just stake your ape coin and then you're in,
and then you're collecting damn.
And that's it over there. You quickly just stake your ape coin. And then you're in. And then you're collecting damn. And that's it, correct?
I'm going to do one better.
I'm going to post it above.
And you guys can follow it.
Perfect.
Appreciate that, Machi.
Because, yeah, guys, I mean, you know, a lot of people bring that up.
And then they bring up that one.
And they go, he spent it all on the apes.
It's like, yes, but you can actually own a piece of the apes.
And all you have to do is just hold your ape coin.
And then I believe you also get your ape coin native yield on top of the damn token yield.
Is that correct, Machi?
Correct.
You get ape coin and you get the damn token.
Yeah.
So again, it's on Ape Chain ape chain now yeah it's been migrated yes not financial advice
but you know machi did build it with the dow and yeah he built it geez 2023 it's been forever
but yeah here dutchy you want to keep us moving dutchy yeah i definitely want to respect the hands
and also make sure that everybody gets a chance to be heard so if you've already spoken and you
you've said your piece it'd be great to kind of give more people a voice here um because it's it's sort of
all of our space so i know derek's been waiting for quite some time so i'll go to derek and i'm
going to go to nana and then um rfdz and then i have a whole list of who's joined and what order
did they join hey guys i just wanted to say just one or two things.
I mean, a lot of, some of us in the DAO have been talking about, you know, restructuring
things for a while.
I think the pros and cons arguments are all good, but, you know, as Gargis said, and a
lot of people said, it's because of the structure from the Ape Foundation down to the DAO itself,
it's very, very, it's going to be very difficult and more complex legally
to just pick and choose what you can and cannot do.
And everything needs to be shut down and started from scratch,
which is how I understood the APECO AIP.
But more to the point, one of the things that I have concerned,
a lot of people who aren't involved in the DAO
don't know how it actually works.
The first time you put up an AIP is never perfect. It's mostly like an outline.
Some people go all out and write a very complex, detailed AIP. But over the course, from the time an AIP goes up in draft to the time it becomes an AIP, sorry, from an idea to an AIP to vote,
it goes through a lot of iteration, a lot of changes, a lot of revisions
based on what people say and all the comments.
So I think that as long as they don't rush this out to vote as is, I hope that, you know,
there's some more clarity can be brought to the AIPB.
I even, you know, messaged Garga about it yesterday.
I said to him, you know, and Ernest brought this up again of course he would he
ernest is an attorney i mentioned to him that aip 582 has set up a bunch of different things
that needed to be done and how was he planning to address aip 582 for instance aip 582 had
certain uh things for ape chain itself they They had the Security Council and all those things.
Are they going to be taking those things out
and moving them to the new structure
because it affects Ape Chain?
Or are they going to just take a look at AIP 582,
which also structures the special council?
Are they just going to destroy everything?
So those are the only things.
Of course, nobody knows for sure
how much money is left in the treasury.
We haven't had any financials since 2023.
So that's two years of financials not there.
So once this AIP goes through and everything gets shut down, destroyed, restarted, all that goes away.
And the Dow has no idea what happened to the funds and who gets what and where it goes.
But I think shutting everything down and starting from scratch with APECO, I think it's the best
way to go. But there are still a lot of unanswered questions. And Ernest said it. I wasn't sure if
it was Ernest or Big Bull who said it eloquently, that you can't start something in this manner,
because then a lot of people are going to, know down the road going to say well why should
we take apco seriously if we just you know ramshot through an aip that the dow had but the counter
argument to that is if you're going to if you're going to shut down the dow i don't think it
matters how you do it because the end result will be the same whether you do it properly you do step
by step or you you know you save some parts of it don't think, I think the end results are going to be the same thing. The DAO is gone.
And I think it needs to be gone because for the longest time, I just posted a link in the chat
there that Kodama and myself and others were saying since December, 2023, that the only way
to save the DAO was to kill it and rebuild it. But, you know, here we are. I'm 100% in support
of this APCO direction. I think a lot of people who don't understand how the DAW works really don't understand that this is the way to go.
And everybody trusts Gaga, so I don't see the argument, but that's all I wanted to say.
Well, appreciate you coming up. Thank you.
Nana, let's go to you now.
I'll go down now. I'll step down now.
appreciate it
Appreciate it. Nana, let's go to you.
now now let's go to you
thanks bro
for giving me just a minute
just to say my simple words
it's a pretty of younger
apes
I'm coming as well from a corporate background
and things can be better
and more streamlined
and I think it's good
when we all get like
and really listen carefully to the vision Gaga just laid out.
So I think we will hear a lot of more stuff coming
because what I found interesting is really incorporating,
changing regulatory environments and becoming, yeah,
the world's number one community total.
So when you got to break through in the US, you break through the world's number one community total. So when you've got
the breakthrough in the US, you break through the
world. That's simple marketing and
branding rule number one since capitalism
was born.
And I really
really proud to see how
respectful the
discussion is being driven between everyone.
So that's a thumbs up for everyone
and thanks
just for me, thumbs up for me, that's me
that's my effect
if I left it to Dutchie
and Kyle, this place would be a shitshow
but I'm here with a strong arm
with the mute button and the kick button
and I even blocked Gargoyle
he said he's not transferring the A-point to me
bro, bro, I know because that's why you paid me
that I'm standing right behind Dachi
with a baseball bat so that he behaves
this space, all good bro
we are light
thanks for having me
and let's ape, let's stay strong together
Ape, Chen and Top
Appreciate you coming by Nana
thank you for that, RFDZ, the floor is yours, my friend.
What's going on?
How's it going, bro?
I think we should just let Garga cook, man.
I've been listening to all these people talking, but I was just like, you know, just let Garga cook, man.
Just let Garga cook.
I like that.
It's just, you know, plain and simple.
Man a few words.
Moving it quick.
We appreciate you, man. Thank you for that. Let's go to Aaron next. Aaron, what's going on? What are you thinking?
Well, first of all, everybody should know that I did not actually request to come up.
I think everybody is probably like, oh, this guy wants to talk.
And no, I was invited on stage because I wasn't sure if I had anything to add.
I mean, I see both sides of it, right? I can't imagine being Garga and Gordon and starting Bordeaux Yacht Club wanting to spin up a coin and then because of the regulatory issues, having to kind of spin it off and not be able to talk with the entity for years that must have been incredibly frustrating especially when you see
all of the the infighting the mismanagement uh you know just just the the general
shittiness of how the dao worked i can see that and i can see him wanting to come in
and kind of fix everything and uh i applaud him for that i can also see you know being earnest's uh partner
in board council and having worked with him extensively and being a good friend of his
i can see that earnest wants things to be done properly uh because when you you know do things
properly uh you know sometimes they they go better i can also see everybody in the community just wanted to be like, fuck that shit. We want things to just move forward. And you can definitely tell the community
sentiment wants ApeCo to happen. And I think it will go up to vote. And I think it will happen.
I mean, RIP DAO, I don't think we ever got, as much as I like the individuals, you know,
think we ever got as much as I like the individuals, you know, who were part of the special
council, we never got the ability to actually run it the way it was supposed to be run.
And, you know, whether it was, you know, Machi, you know, it taken a year for him to get a deal
that the whole Dow voted on, or whether it was other people that never even got a chance to go
up to vote for no good reason. It all kind of sucks.
So, you know, I think I think the vote's going to go forward. I think it's going to pass.
I you know, at the same time, the only thing that I would say to to Gargant Company is,
you know, if you weren't thinking about this last week, perhaps think about it a little bit more.
It's going to pass whenever they put it up.
Is this the best version of it?
And is this the best way to move forward?
But, yeah, I have no doubt it's going to pass.
I'm bored of Yacht Club, ride or die.
I'm going to say something that's going to make Natalie very upset.
Kick them off stage. Let's go.
I really don't care about DAOs.
I mean, I did not join Web3 because of decentralization.
I didn't join the DAO because it was a DAO.
I mean, I'm in this because I care about founders and artists' rights. I care about royalties for people that are generally not
treated that well, like artists and comedians, painters, whatever, whatever. I'm in this for
the IP. I'm in this for spreading a new way of owning intellectual property. I mean, that's
why I'm here. I think Ernest and I put up a good fight,
you know, trying to make sure that the DAO worked for everyone. And I think we'll continue to do
that in board council and in other ways, trying to help people achieve their goals and dreams.
I don't think a DAO is necessary for that. And let's see what happens. But yes, I do trust
Dumbledore. But at the same time, Harry Potter always misbehaved.
He always had questions.
I have a kid named after a Harry Potter character, okay?
I get this shit.
Like, you know, it's okay to ask questions of the people that you love and trust.
And it's okay to sort of expect answers.
So, you know, Harry Potter didn't walk through the seven, you know, books blind. He
always learned stuff and found stuff out. So yeah, I trust Dumbledore. You're also allowed to ask
questions. Thanks for that. Appreciate it. I do want to rotate to some of the other people who
haven't got a chance to speak yet. So I want to pass the mic over to Baca and then I'm going to go over to Natalie. I got to go after Baka? Damn, go ahead.
I quit, Matt.
What's up, guys?
Nah, you know, I get it.
I get the whole, like, oh, no, like, we don't have control anymore.
We don't have a voice.
But, like, yo, I mean, the CEO is the CEO, man.
You know, we're passing the torch to the right person, I think.
And, yeah, like, I think everyone should be excited that he's taking over.
I think most of us are.
You know, Gordon, I've been saying this, like, you know,
if Gordon steps up and comes back, dude, it's over.
We're going up over we're going up
we're going up that's just how it is um yeah i'm excited i'm excited because i know this
thing is gonna fucking pass and yeah it looks good
100 appreciate you coming up here baka appreciate you coming and saying your piece
uh natalie let's go to you hey y'all shout out to everybody in the audience and on stage this has
been a very um interesting conversation to say the least uh I think maybe I'm here to be very
frank as like a word of caution I know that people are very excited as am I however um I see on the
timeline everybody's saying we need to move quickly. We
need to do, you know, coin go up. This is partially how we got to this point because we are moving
quickly. There are people asking questions along the way and trying to hold folks accountable and,
you know, posting numerous conversations over the years to do so. However, I think we need to move with caution and make sure that we have
all the nails and bolts intact. And while we can't prepare for everything, it's probably one of the
few people that have spun down a doubt in this kind of ecosystem period, which is probably one
of the most challenging things I've ever done in my life. Cause yeah, ego. But I just need folks
to like move with caution and also like hold each other accountable. And while we may not have
control of like whatever the future structure is, I do think it's important for all of us to band
together, slap on some elbow grease and make sure they're all doing our part to hold up the ecosystem,
to make sure that we're bringing new folks in and to expand kind of our collective vision as well.
Although ApeCo will be a different thing and we'll have to like adapt and like figure out
what that means for all of us and how we participate.
But I do, again, for the 80th time, think we need to move caution and the quickly thing
kind of scary to me.
So I just, I just need folks to like hold on to this idea that we built something together
and maybe there's something in the future that can manifest itself. hold on to this idea that we built something together.
And maybe there's something in the future that can manifest itself.
But the last thing I want to say is that there are a lot of people on the timeline and came on the stage and said,
DAOs do not work.
I've been to probably like 20 or 30 DAOs over the last like several years on
near and forefront and seed club,
which was kind of the pinnacle of like what DAOs meant at the time.
And so I've seen a lot of folks do a lot of crazy shit and And I've seen a lot of DAOs slander. I've seen a
lot of DAOs fail, but I've also seen how the power of DAOs actually could change the material
conditions for a lot of people and also this ecosystem and the things that have kind of
transpired have been monumental and actually changed a lot of the shit that was happening in
this Web3 crypto, whatever you want to call it. So I, yeah, I think it's time for a new era. Like, don't get it
twisted. But I also am like, let's not be dismissive of people who actually did do work
in the Dow. Let's not think that people just want a job or to hang on to like, whatever assets or
they're not gonna get funding anymore. So now they're disgruntled. No, people actually care
about this community. People actually care about the doubt. People actually care about
a chain and trajectory. And some people are just asking questions that are very much needed.
And I urge us to stop being guests, man, and really just hold each other accountable,
ask questions so we can iron out something that actually feels good for all of us moving forward.
And we build a new structure that actually looks very different from the past. And also,
some of y'all coming up the stage, Derek,
you also are part of the problem, but I'm in there.
So I'm not going to get too spicy, but Rita, love you.
That's a good top-notch trophy host.
So I'm just leaving it there for it. Thank you. That's all I got to say.
Thank you so much, Natalie. Appreciate it.
Yeah. Maki, sorry. i didn't mean to cut you off
no i stayed up here just to defend apeco and garga so anybody's thinking like slow the process
then when they fire people they just get security escort your ass out shut your email down take
your cell phone away and you're done they don't like oh, oh yeah, why don't I, well, you know, I fired you, you can decide
how you tranch me out the fucking funds
or, you know, like
hesitate or second guess
by the people that I'm letting go.
No. It's already like,
you know, check the timeline.
Yo, we got people without
even the APFP giving up
ApeCo and ApeCoinDAO ideas.
Like, I love you, Natalie, but no.
Matty, fall back, bro.
First of all, NFTs.tips launched an 8,000 Apes.
So don't get it twisted.
I don't have to have Apes.
And it's also part of the problem.
Let the ladies talk.
First of all, I coached on an NFTs.tips, and we launched some of the first 2,000 Apes.
So let's not get it twisted.
So why didn't have the access or financial resources to get a damn ape?
I sure put in some damn work and I sure held people accountable and I sure held court without a damn ape.
So that should tell you a lot.
So don't get it twisted.
There are a lot of people in this community that also cannot afford an ape or don't have the resources to hoard 200 apes but will put
in work. So I acknowledge anybody
who put in some elbow grease into this doll.
I acknowledge anybody who comes to the
stage and has the balls,
cojones, to actually say some shit.
So don't come for me because
Machi, you know I get down. So
please have a seat, sir.
Sorry, I came for everybody.
I came for everybody. I came for everybody.
Don't come for me, girl.
Everybody. Don't come for me, Machi.
Anybody against Ape Co.
I'm not against Ape Co.
Or Garga's AIP.
I'm asking you to move thoughtfully and intentionally, Machi.
If you have a problem with that, I feel sick in his face.
Garga's thoughtful and he's very intentional.
Garga knows what's up.
He's very intentional.
I'm not saying he doesn't.
He don't need a cheerleader.
We know he got this. I'm not even saying doesn't. He don't need a cheerleader. We know he got this.
I'm not.
I'm not a cheerleader.
You guys are the cheerleaders.
I'm the fucking.
I don't wear pom pom.
I'm the judge up in here.
What's up?
I'm just saying we need to move thoughtfully and intentionally.
And that's the last of my comments.
So I'm going to need you to fall back and understand.
I'm always like, let's do what's equitably right in this space so we can move forward and do some new shit and ApeCoin go up.
That's what I'm saying.
If anybody has just one ApeCoin, which is under a dollar right now, go stake it right fucking now for some digital art token.
Then you will own a piece of 200 plus Apes, everybody.
Appreciate that.
I want to rotate to some more people
who haven't got a chance to speak.
So if you have got a chance to speak,
it would be great if we could let, you know,
more community members have their voice heard.
Obviously, this affects us all.
So, yeah.
I can hop down.
Thanks a lot.
Thank you, Aaron.
Appreciate it.
Okay, so from the people who are having...
Hello, can you hear me?
Yeah, I can. Okay, so from the people who are having... Hello, can you hear me, Dachi?
Yeah, I can hear you,
unfortunately.
Fuck you, Dachi. No, no, but just one thing. We will let
everyone up to speak their
piece about this
because it's a community
issue here.
And please, everyone, just respect
everybody else
so we can make this go forward.
I'm getting some heat on the DMs, so I just want to say that.
Yeah, and there's that, and then there's a ton of requests as well.
So just giving some context here.
So I haven't heard yet from Ramdog, so i'll let you say did he say his piece
well he spoke a few times i don't know if he said it all but i'm happy to rotate back to baka
uh if you had any other thoughts no yeah if you need me to drop down uh i got you bro um
machi shout out to you, brother.
Thanks, Baca.
I appreciate it.
So, yeah, I'm going to go to RamDog, and then from there, I'm going to go to Lord Lord.
GMGM, everyone, thanks for allowing me up on stage.
I haven't really been listening in on all the beef with the DAO and everything like that.
I'm just here to build, you know, like free mints, you know, just getting people to buy, set up wallets, get on Ape Chain, Ape Coin.
You know, I've bought Apes for the past two years.
You know, it's been an up and down cycle, but, you know, everyone's building.
Everyone's here to grind, to support each other.
So, you know, I'm not really worried about any FUD or anything like that.
Let's get it going.
Yeah, I think it's not necessarily a beef. I think it's just an open discussion about the proposal coming from Garga to essentially wind down the Dow or sunset the Dow is the word.
essentially wind down the DAO or sunset the DAO is the word. And this would transition all those
resources to a new entity that is kind of coming from Yuga and that would be ApeCo. And so that
fundamentally changes voting, participation, funding, yeah, a lot of infrastructure. So I don't think it's a matter of beef.
I think it's just a matter of conversation and how does this look like and how do people
feel about that sort of massive, it's probably the biggest thing that has happened in the
DAO since its inception.
So we just want to make sure everyone has been heard.
But I will encourage that I've seen some questions on the timeline
that like sort of are answered in the in the aip that garga has proposed so you know i know apes
generally don't read but it would probably be a good idea to read through because a lot of the
things have been answered already in there so we don't have like the time taken up with things that
have been addressed lord lord i'm going to go over to you. GMGM, two questions
really quick. One for Machi. I want to make sure I understood this right.
Machi, did you say that you would be giving all the apes back
to ApeCo if this happens? I want to make
sure I understood that. Yeah, me and Gargo would discuss
it. I'm down. No, no, no no not discuss it i want to know much
no i'm not gonna give it to no motherfuckers if this goes through being run by lord lord
running the fucking ape co or whatever whoever the fuck is running ape co i need to see who's
running ape co ah so if they don't say who's running ape co you're not gonna do it you wouldn't
what would you give them straight up to garga yeah Yeah, straight up Garga. Garga's got to do the negotiating
and talking. Yes.
Now, let's say it didn't happen, but
would you consider just giving him to Garga
regardless of
who's running ApeCo? No.
Right now, the apes belong
to everybody with ApeCoin, man.
You got ApeCoin, fucking go stake it
and you own this fucking, all these apes,
man. It's that simple.
Interesting.
Rita, I'd like to...
You know what?
Now they brought it up more long.
I believe once they shut down ApeCoin Dow and they start ApeCo up, take fucking 10% of the ApeCoin there, load up on board Apes, and start the Ape strategy.
Straight up like a micro strategy, like Michael Saylor, just like Joe Lubin with his SBET, motherfuckers. With ApeCo, we fucking just go all out and do a fucking Ape strategy straight up like a micro strategy like Michael Saylor just like Joe Lubin with his s-bet
motherfuckers with ape co we fucking just go all out and do a fucking ape strategy it would it would blow the fuck up It's that simple actually it was it was brought up before
But no one wrote the AIP and now we don't need to write the AIP we do it with a code
Okay
Rita I'd love to get your take after hearing Garg gargus speak i'd like to know kind of where you
stand um on on the whole situation on the proposal on sunsetting the dow i'd like to
to get your take now that you've kind of heard everything to be honest i i prefer not to i'll do
it on baka space or captain space but for this, we're trying to keep it as neutral and as,
how do you say, objective or however you want to say it,
and giving everyone a chance to ask questions and give their takes.
I'll do it on another space.
If you don't mind.
Interesting. All right.
No, I don't mind.
Just to keep it as a safe space and for everybody to be able to talk
and give their parts well here's what i'll say man this is probably this is probably it for for
me here is that um i love the i love the dow i love ape coin uh i love being a mutant i love
ape fest and uh whatever the decision is however it moves um i just want things to be fun and exciting for our community
as a whole um and that whatever happens benefits our community as a whole um in terms of uh uh
i'm not i'm not a huge gamer that's not my thing but i'd love to see more happening in activations
events um and stuff like that because that's kind of that's what I enjoy most about the club
So whatever it is. I just wanted all to benefit the club as a whole
And thank you for your time. Have fun be safe
community service
Yeah, guys, we're running up on the last 15 minutes of the spaces.
We do want to keep it a bit concise.
And obviously, if someone wants to spin up another space, we can go ahead and do that.
But we do want to kind of people want to listen back to the recording and kind of get a condensed version of where we're going with this.
You know, let's let's not do a 18 hour BACA space.
Shout out to BACA for doing those.
But this is not one of them.
And so, yeah. So if you have any other questions, we got about 15 minutes left and then we're going to wind this thing down.
And then, yeah, of course, you'll break out into more discussions.
And then we will combine the questions that are received that didn't get a chance to get addressed by Garga and the team.
And we'll send over a document. We'll try to get that to the other space hosts as well.
So over the course of the week, he said Garga said he'll be on other spaces as well. And hopefully we can kind of get some of those addressed. Plus, on top of that, we know that this is not the only sort of comms or documentation that's going to come out of this AIP.
in the initial draft of a proposal,
it makes absolute sense
that all the executional details
are not outlined as well.
It's a gauging of the community sentiment
to see if this thing will even move forward at all.
And then you flush out sort of how this happens
and when it happens.
So I think there's a lot more dates and details
that we'll see revealed
more than what we can get
in a 30 minute space from Garga.
So, yeah, I'll go to the hands with Alpha Dijan.
Hey, man, thanks for allowing me to come up and join your TED talk.
I just wanted to say I think we should turn them loose.
Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.
And right now we just kind of just lollygagging just you know a lot of money has
been wasted a lot of money has been made and spent but let's i think if we take a new direction and
refine the ship and let this motherfucker go breakdance and spin on his head like he did on
that post somebody made of him we gonna we we can't do anything but go somewhere we all saying
that if if he comes out and say a tweet and say, fuck it,
then we're jumping up and down and celebrating.
Well, that was his fucking tweet.
Let's jump up and down and celebrate, get behind him.
A lot of us are here because of the culture in the first place.
Let's let the cultural leader be the fucking leader.
I don't want to suck him up, but God damn glaze him, man.
I don't want to praise him, but let's glaze him.
I land my plane.
Appreciate you, Alpha Dijen.
Anyone else wants to come up and add a little bit to what they heard today
or wants to be heard, please feel free to request up.
But just have the context that really we can only have a few minutes for that
because we're winding down at the end of the hour.
So this is the time, if you'd like to speak
your piece, feel free to come up. And also, yeah, anyone who has already got a chance to speak,
please, you know, give some space for some of the people who may request up.
Ernest, do you have anything else you want to add or say?
I do. I just had a thought and I would have a question for Garga. If this AIP is put up in a week and it passes a multi-sig that is there to protect the chain in the event of
problems, catastrophe. And there isn't currently anything in this AIP to show who will be in charge of making sure that the chain is protected in the event of a problem like that.
Definitely. I feel like there's just a little bit more information that needs to be out there.
And I think that hopefully over the next week or so, as this thing kind of gets flushed out,
we get a little bit more information, things start to come together.
I think everyone just wants everything to work
out well. And I think everyone's just excited about where we're going next. You know, I mean,
this is always fun to like, you know, get an opportunity to talk to everybody, come as a big
group and go, okay, let's all hash this out and try to figure out where like the future of ApeCoin
is, where we're all going next. And I think this has been a super awesome space.
And yeah, I absolutely loved hearing everyone's questions today and, you know, getting to hear from Ernest, getting to hear from Dutchie, getting to hear from Big Bull, getting to
hear from Garga, and then just kind of just putting it all together.
Because again, like, it feels like this is what everybody wants, but even though everybody
wants it, it's important to go, okay, well, how does this work?
Let's just get some clarification.
Let's just keep moving like that.
But definitely, G is us us let's go to you yeah i'm going to try and keep it real quick there's
so much to say and uh as i mentioned in the uh another space you were holding um we'll do a
specific space coming from the mochaverse lens and i see bobby kunta from the sandbox dow
they're certainly invited but we'll do a space from that lens too, just to add
to this.
What is being covered in this space so exceptionally,
shouts out to you guys, Rita, just
always bringing these spaces together really quickly
on the fly.
It speaks to your ability to be integrated
with the community, and that's really why I'm
about G's more than anything right now,
because all this other stuff
isn't forth isn't his uh
forthright and just you know out there and making a space and speaking on it and that's what i wanted
to say is that um we're not hearing from uh all of the other people uh let me just rewind real quick
um ape coin and through the dow's journey at one point in marketing was saying you know ape coins
not just for bayc all the things it's retrenched to now which is great i'm was saying you know ape coins not just for bayc all the things it's
retrenched to now which is great i'm for that you know stick to your knitting um retrenchment
strategies are great but in the meantime or in the journey we've you know had mocha verse and
all these other institutional investors come in and mocha verse has not only ape but a huge amount
of uh deeds in the treasury so i really want to see what the, you know,
take is from that side, from all the different people.
Open campus is another one.
You know, with their DAO,
what's going to happen with all these other DAOs moving forward?
Are DAOs dead?
All that discussion.
And then how all those things that are already integrated, right?
Like the voting power of MoCA in there.
What happens to that?
Is that now going back into Animoca's wallet?
Are they just going to, you know, get rid of all that ape that they they have that's huge right that's you know that's a loss so i'm
really curious uh what that discussion looks like and uh looking forward to hearing those takes but
these uh spaces are the only reason i'm tapping in because other other than that it's like i think
it's at a point where you just capitulate when you don't understand you can't like you just fall
off right so uh thank you for putting these spaces together because other than that, I'd have fallen off.
I'm an OG.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, OG.
Firstly, condolences to you on your loss and welcome back.
Thank you, brother.
It's two Mondays from now.
So yeah, I'm trying to hold that shit together and just speak on this.
But it's a bucket list, if you feel me.
You're on my bucket list.
No worries. No worries, my man. Yeah, thanks, brother. that shit together and just speak on this but it's a bucket list if you feel me you're on my bucket list no no worries no worries yeah thanks brother but yeah no thank you for that and thank you for putting this space together and yeah that just shows to the extent for those that don't know
my mom is uh is going to pass on may 23rd it's a set date here in canada they do that and so uh
yeah i'm dealing with all that but uh with so much going on that's how compelling this is and to natalie's point and to others uh people are out here you know what i'm
saying we've been here and i never fucking received one single fucking ape for holding spaces about
apecoin dow for years and years right for real and having and getting to meet the value i get
gleaned from it is meaning people like machi natalie rita you fucking name it in this space
right here so uh yeah the dows are part of all our journey and i don't think we should have that
self-wrought like vice magazine taking all its vice uh magazines from the og days out of its
lobbies and stuff because they were ashamed right disney being ashamed of snow white that's fucking
treacherous that's terrible and that's when you die so uh yeah just we got to do good vivisection
here and like people are speaking on it people made this dow and that led to the chain and etc
etc i hosted every single one of the chain uh um you know what i'm saying all the different chains
all the leaders of all the different chains i hosted them got to meet them and stuff there's
been huge value in this dow but it's time for a pivot right so let's do that with some dignity
and respect to everybody end of g's notes it, man. I think we've got like about six minutes left here in this space.
So if someone hasn't got a chance to speak, it'd probably be the time now.
If not, we'll probably just do some final final thoughts and and then close this thing out.
And then, of course, someone wants to pop up a new space and go on for another few more hours.
That's totally welcome. And then just remember, there is another space planned with Captain as well, who he's going to be able to speak with Garga. So you may get
some of that information that you may be looking forward to as well. And then we're sending out the
doc with the questions that you're going to address. So it doesn't stop here. And obviously,
you know, lots of details to be revealed with the revision of the AIP proposal that kind of
builds in a little bit more detail
than sort of just the outline that we saw today.
Yeah, I think I'm going to have to bounce very soon.
So if I don't think anybody else has any more questions,
let's wrap it up.
I think we're in a good spot.
I think we're in a good spot, guys.
This is a great space.
Rita, thank you so much for inviting me to be a part of it.
Dutchie, thank you so much for putting that document together.
Shout out to you.
Ernest, Big Bull, Proof of Alpha, G is Us,
Rom, RFDZ, Baka.
Jeez, so many people came by today.
Obviously, Garga.
Thank you all so much for spending your friday with us
and i'll see you at uh meet at the clubhouse space coming up here in a few hours yeah 100
thank you guys thank you everyone for showing up and uh we'll we'll talk soon
now i need to get on another space so i can say my piece
i'll be there Rita. Will do.
