Apple Vision Pro - Fire or Flop

Recorded: Jan. 23, 2024 Duration: 2:45:43

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I'm not used to doing this in this format, but this is cool.
Well, I thought it'd be fun to just like get on a chat here and start talking.
Like I've been just like obsessing about it for myself.
It's so fascinating in so many ways and it could be complete fire and it could be a complete flop
and you won't really know for a long time, but I mean Apple hasn't had a flop in a long time.
Yeah, I know their track record is pretty solid. Yeah, it's funny. I've been going online and
trying to find like all the reviews and everything, but it just seems like they're all like we talked
about. They're all still controlled. So I don't think any of them have gotten to actually play
with it without Apple kind of looking down or like letting them play with it in a controlled
environment yet. So right. I mean, February, February 2nd will be that kind of shift, right?
Where we actually go actually like we're getting some real recording people using the actual apps
of like showing you in detail, like how it like, like they're talking about that like race car
that you can do. Like it can be like an actual physical race card like in your, you know,
apartment or whatever, but yeah, you haven't seen anybody actually like interact with it and use it
and like spin it and like get inside and like, you know, all that kind of stuff. I think you'll see
that on February 2nd though, right? Yeah, probably won't be till the second. It's like one of the
things I really appreciate about Apple as a company is that they like, they're very intentional
with what they built, right? Like they're kind of like the inverse of like, um,
Mitsubishi or Samsung where they just like build, you know, microwaves and fucking motorcycles and
lawnmowers and like printers. They just like make everything underneath the sun in a lot of ways.
But like with Apple, you can take every one of their products, all of them,
and put it on your kitchen table, right? Like that's, that's the entire, and there's like,
you know, a total of what? Seven, eight products total, right? It's really not that much. And so
when they, when they do put their foot in something, it's like, it's very intentional and
typically it's pretty well thought out, you know, pretty well done. So it's, it was fascinating
because like historically Apple has never been a company that comes out the door with some sort
of new technology. They're, they're typically are very commonly out like last to the game,
right? That was like the case of the mp3 player where there was like Rio and you know,
a bunch of other kind of manufactured mp3 players back in the day. And they came out with iPod
and all the C like, that was the end of it more or less. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I,
I just, I'm thinking I'm just, I keep equating it to like, I, I'm thinking the iPhone,
right? Like it's coming out the original version. Not a lot of people know what to expect,
but it is Apple. And yeah, it's going to be, it's not going to be super polished right away.
You know, who knows? There's, you know, like, remember when the iPhone came out,
there wasn't even an app store. It was, you know, that was, it was just like,
use these things. That's it. Right. It was still awesome. Right. But you know,
it's going to take a while. I think you've mentioned this. It's in, I agree. It's
going to take a little while, maybe fourth version. Yep. But until, but until then I'm
going to, I know it's a little pricey, but I'm going to, I'm going to enjoy the ride
until that happens. Cause I think it's going to be fun playing with it until it does get to that
point. So the funny thing is when the iPhone first launched, people made fun of it because
it was really expensive, which it was relative to the other devices and phones. People made fun
of it because they didn't have a keyboard as like a, you know, on screen keyboard,
which was a new concept at the relative to the time period. And even the app store,
they were avidly against the idea of an app store. And they, in the first,
I think like two years, they said, Oh, you don't need app stores. You're going to have like,
you know, online apps, like browser apps. Like that was like, that was the position
in those early, early couple of years. And eventually they came out with the app store,
which was like the most important thing for them to do. Like it both has a profitable thing
because Apple makes fuck tons of money on apps. Like they make boatloads of fucking money. So
it's like a huge money maker for them. And it also just created like a lot of purpose,
right? Because the iPhone or the Mac or most of its products don't really have a lot of purpose
because you don't get a lot of value out of the calendar and the notes app and like these
kind of basic apps that come shipped with the iPhone. And they don't even really spend a lot
of time or each of us are trying to try to build a lot of apps. I just let the community let the
devs, you know, the entrepreneurs in the work in the industry to build all the apps. Like they
don't try to build 30 or 40 different apps that do lots of different things. The apps they do
build are very typically very, very small with the exception of maybe maps, but like everything
else is like very rudimentary. Oh, there's a calculator. Oh, there's a timer. You know,
good job, Apple on the pushing the envelope on the app side. But like without the app store,
like that's what gives it the value. That's what gives it the use case. That's why it's so
like social media didn't really exist in the same way as it does today. Before the iPhone came out
to have cameras on your phone that just changed. You know, like Instagram probably would not have
worked free iPhone, right? You need like phone and you need phones to be you know,
like just everywhere. And like one of the funny things that nobody's talking about with the
Apple vision is that nobody's really talking about how it's a it's a it's a camera itself,
right? People see it kind of a Yeah, that's right. People kind of joke at that being a poor camera
because you just like sit in this big giant thing on your face and you look kind of ridiculous. And
you're like watching your five year old's birthday or whatever the fuck is going on.
Right. But but here's here's a good argument for that. Right. And that is like, I saw a picture
recently of of the ball dropping right in New York City. And everybody had their phones out
almost taking a picture of the ball drop, right? And or the same thing as you go to a concert,
you go see a Taylor Swift concert or whatever. And everybody's with their phones out and
everybody's experiencing the concert through the screen of their phone. Right. They're not
actually there. They're not actually present. They're not actually enjoying the experience.
They're just like, looking at the phone, they're trying to get it centered and get like stable and
like, get a good video or whatever. But the nice thing about that the Apple Vision Pro as like a
camera device is that you can be present, you can just hit the record button and record a video of
you know, Taylor Swift, or the hell you're doing, and just watch it and enjoy it. And then like,
you don't you're not looking at through your screen of your phone, you're looking at just
through your eyes. And you're not really, you know, trying to balance between the watching
physically hurt and watching it scream back and forth. I think that it might help people be more
present when they actually are taking photos and be more Yeah, experience the thing that you're
there to experience. Interesting. That's a good take. I never thought about that. Because I know
that that camera is there. And I also saw I don't know if you saw it in that review,
but I thought it was interesting question where they asked, do you have to actually be wearing
you? You do? Yeah, so like, it would have been cool to maybe be able to take it off and like,
put it in the room and just like film an event. Like, I don't know, maybe it's a birthday party
and you're filming the opening gifts. But it sounds like you actually have to have it on in
order for that functionality to work. Yeah, but if I'm gonna do, if I'm gonna do that,
I would just set up a tripod and set up my phone. Like, that's
no need. Yeah, that's true. If you want that spatial, what's that spatial way it does? It does
like the three, the iPhone 15, I think it's the Pro Pro doesn't do they film in the spatial? Yeah.
So well, so if you have a 15, yeah, you just use that and then you can film it in that spatial
but also the format supposedly the aspect ratio is different between your phone recording spatial
and vision. The vision is like more like, it looks like more like a four by three aspect ratio.
Oh, I don't know if that's like actually how it gets captured. That's how the the demos I've
seen thus far. It's always been a four by three. Whereas iPhone 15 Pro will do, you know,
16 by nine or something more, you know, more typical. Yeah, you know, yeah. I think it's
I mean, but yeah, I think it's gonna be cool. And those in those videos, I haven't obviously
I haven't seen this thing yet. I haven't experienced it from but from what I'm hearing.
It's so like lifelike like it's almost everyone's saying like it's like you're there. I mean,
that's dude, I gotta say that is actually really, really cool. Like if you there's gonna be
certain things where if you just get filmed certain events in your life, and you like,
I don't know, years down the road, you go back and you can actually like feel like you're there and
like in a room with people. I know, man, I know it's kind of cheesy a little bit to say, but I just
I think that's gonna be cool. Like down the road, you're gonna look back and go like,
holy shit, like I'm glad I filmed this when I did or something, you know,
it's kind of funny, like we won't really know until we get kind of an experience with ourselves.
But my assumption is if you're gonna experience a photo in 3d, it's gonna feel more lifelike,
it's gonna feel more like your memory itself. And I think inherently, that's going to create
the carry more emotion with it, right? If you want to get like a really good video of like,
you know, you and me were hanging out of bonfire on the beach and, you know, playing music and,
you know, drinking beers or whatever. You know, I think that would be like you'd feel it more
emotional. Yeah, I'm assuming I'm assuming one guy was saying that like when you take a 3d
video or like even like the panorama one, like you can like kind of peek over,
like peek over the bottom of the photo and see further down.
You know what I mean? Yeah, that's, yeah, that's gonna be a trip.
That's gonna be a trippy thing. And then if you if you want to get super fancy about it,
which is like also a thing, you pair that with AI, where AI can generate more photo that doesn't
exist in the actual original photo, but can create more sky and more ocean and and like or whatever.
And if you just the vision pro in that moment can generate more photos so that you can get
that even more of like, you know, all encompassing photo that just like surrounds you 360 fucking
degrees with sky and clouds that are maybe even fucking moving, right? And who knows? Like it's
the potential there's is so significant, I feel like.
Yeah, the potential is definitely I think is definitely there.
But yeah, and it was, it was funny, like the one thing I'm like super curious about I was and I was
just looking into like about an hour ago is how it's gonna like just how it's gonna feel like
working like with it, like I was just sitting on my bed, like typing on my desk on my laptop,
but I'm thinking, well, wait a minute, if I had the vision pro, I could just have that thing on.
And then there's an entire just like massive screen in front of me. And I could just be typing
out on my lap, like, or on on a Bluetooth keyboard. And I have this massive dope screen. And I'm
just like, I'm just trying to get my head around like what exactly this thing's going to do.
And especially when it comes to like the work stuff. And I think it's going to be just like,
I think it's going to be a full it's a game changer. I think, I think it's the screen is
not the game changer. I think that's the thing that makes sense now because it's like such a big
step from where we are now, like all of a sudden having a 40 inch screen in front of your face,
you want to, but I think this is going to break the idea of a screen. Right? I think this is
going to be like, you no longer have screens, you just have apps that are just floating in space.
And you just flip to the app that you need. Or you have like, you don't have an idea of actual
display. You just have like, Oh, here's my discord. And here's my WhatsApp. And here's my,
you know, Chrome browser. And you just kind of like, there's kind of floating around you
and just kind of grab the thing you want when you want it and then start typing or whatever.
It's just, it's just like, it's going to cause us to kind of think differently. But the way
we interface with our applications, right? Even like, yeah, I think applications now,
and this is like a first that you'll be able to get applications for your Mac or maybe even like
that run off of your iPhone potentially. And the interfaces are now going to be 3d.
Not just in the sense of like, Oh, this is like, instead of it being a circle on the screen,
it's going to be a sphere on the screen, like, kind of like how the Siri logo is,
like when you've talked to Siri, like it's now like a ball in front of you instead of a,
just a circle. But like, you'll be able to interface with your applications in a three
dimensional space. And so it like, it gives you another dimension to be able to like,
Oh, I want to go, I want to push my tabs of my browser in a three dimensional space,
not just a 2d space or a one dimensional space, more accurately, tabs are generally speaking,
are done in one dimension, unless you group and whatnot. But like, you can start creating
three dimensional space where you pull things within the app for or back or around,
and that gives you just a more control and a more natural way of interacting with applications.
It's I think that's just going to like, devs are going to are going to introduce new
methodologies of interacting with your applications, new primitives, like,
just like the idea of a button and a slider and all those kind of basic ideas of how we interact
with like phones and computers today, we're going to have a completely new slew of basic interaction
methodologies. And you just like pinching your fingers together that kind of Apple pinch,
you know what I mean? They're talking about like, that's just going to be one of 100 different
things that you can do with your hands to interface and interact with the world around
you this virtual world around you. And they're just they're just going to have these cameras that
are looking at your at your hands and then recreating your hands in three dimensional space
so that it knows every contour and shift of your wrist, right and your fingers and your
fingers going out or straight or collapse fist, what is it right? And you can twist your fist
and like cause more things that happen. It's just like the power of that and the
intuitiveness of that it's going to create such new amazing development environments,
people to build new applications to make more flexible, more powerful and more intuitive
UIs to interacting with data information, whatever it is you're trying to touch, gaming, all that
stuff. Yeah, yeah, no, it's gonna be super interesting. I wonder, I see I'd see Preston
on here. I just love to hear what he has to say about this. I mean, honestly, I disagree
with most of what you guys have done, Preston. This is why you're here, my friend. This is why
you're here. I love it. I mean, dude, you guys are like sitting here talking about recording a
fucking T-Swift concert on your Apple glasses. Like, dude, nah, man, that's not going to happen.
The form factor much more is like much more friendly for Ray bands and stuff like that.
The tech just isn't quite there yet. Hopefully it's a good step. No, but you think about
different. So you have to think about like, the Ray ban idea is on one side of the spectrum.
And on the other side of the spectrum, you have the Apple Vision Pro, right? You have this like,
Ray ban is relatively speaking, you know, lower tech, simpler tech, lighter, you know, not as
powerful, blah, blah, blah. And the Apple Vision Pro is like super powerful, you know,
lots of things you can do with it, blah, blah. And you have to like play the technology out over
the next five years, 10 years, whatever. And you're going to find the Ray bands are going
to be moving towards Apple Vision Pro. And Apple Vision Pro is me moving towards a Ray ban.
And then over some period of time, let's call it 10 years, I'm making up a number.
The Ray bands and the Apple Vision Pro will be one and the same.
Right. And so like, I think eventually you're going to get to the place where you're going
to be recording Taylor Swift concerts, whatever, not you won't I don't think if you will do that
with the Apple Vision Pro is the first the first year, the first generation, but eventually I think
that's the the destination that's heading to another. Yeah, of course. I mean, that's that's
definitely the trend of the text moving towards but the Apple Vision Pro the form factor on that
is not it's like a prototype right that you'd hang out with like in your basement kind of a
thing. It's super rad watch like VR porn and like hop in and out of movie theater.
But like you it's not going to like change the world. I don't think when it comes to like the
iPhone did I don't know I'd be very, very it's gonna be it's all dependent upon the app store,
right? If if devs build kick ass apps that it could legitimately move the needle,
but it is competing with like the Oculus and obviously the Oculus has caught pretty good
traction but nothing like what an Apple device could. So yeah, it was interesting.
Yeah, I mean, I think that it will. I mean, eventually, I think the Apple Vision Pro will
be pretty significant, and it'll become more common and obviously much cheaper than it is
now, obviously. But the app like the iPhone was so big because it allowed you to have a computer
in your pocket. Again, and that was just opened up so many doors and use cases like Uber and DoorDash
and you know, Instagram, I mentioned that one earlier, and like these other things that weren't
really practical possible before that point. And the same thing is happening here in the sense
that you're creating a new computing platform that has never really existed. I mean, obviously,
Oculus existed, but not in the context of what Apple is trying to do or that the direction
Apple is going to go. And it will invite devs to think about new use cases of where we can use
technology or we don't use it today. And I think that's gonna be a significant contribution to the
space of technology. Yeah, for sure. I mean, and I think Randy brought up like the office
productivity will be really, really interesting. I actually think that that's probably the first
money shot. If I had to guess, I'd be curious of like, what does that actually look and feel like
as you mess with it? I think the gaming space is probably a little bit further out within Apple's
ecosystem. Like Apple has never really been able to nail that one on the head. Like it's
competition. If this was the Microsoft device, I think the doors wide open, right? Like a device
like this on Xbox Live would be a banger. But that's not the market they're going after,
which Microsoft is probably going to build that now. Right? They're going to answer back.
Yeah, that'd be right. I mean, they had HoloLens and they canceled the project a long time ago.
Yeah, I can, I can totally see Microsoft trying to stay relevant and compete against Apple in
this regard. And same with Google. Google could come up with their own, you know,
headset, face, face set. Should I say, should I say, face set?
Right. I don't know. I think that's like, there's a wonderful opportunity here. And obviously,
we don't know what's going to happen in the future. But this device is obviously absorbently expensive.
And it's probably not even really meant for consumers. It's just made for super early,
you know, wealthy people who can afford it, but also just devs. And so you're going to need
a year or two for devs to like experiment and explore of what you can do with this thing.
I think you're going to see it over the next like 12 months or so.
I mean, the bigger question I think is still like, why has VR and 3D never caught on?
That's kind of a to be determined question that is more of a macro style question. Like 3D
movies, if you remember back when those became a thing, everyone was saying 3D was going to be
the next thing. And now no one wants to watch 3D movies, right? When you use an Oculus headset,
in my experience, anyway, it can get very like disorienting and also the pixelation on the screen
because the screen isn't quite there. So your eyes can pick it up. It sounds like this device
has like that problem solved, which is fantastic. And the response time, it sounds like it's like
12 milliseconds, which is great. Like that's way faster than your eye can see anyway.
But we still haven't solved the major questions of like, do people actually want to have a fucking
screen on their face? And if the answer is no, then it doesn't matter what the device is,
no one will use it. I think I think what you guys are saying like in a nutshell is like the
total addressable market for this thing is not the size of like the iPhone. For starters,
and on top, like a baby is not going to use it. And a 90 year old is probably like questionable,
you can use this thing. So you have this like narrower addressable market, and then there's
a total addressable time, like how much time you put this thing in your head, you're not
going to use it like your phone. So you're really talking about a much more narrow band,
and you're paying an expensive amount, like you're paying a lot for a much shorter period
of time that you're using this thing. So it's like that's part of it. And then as like,
you know, and I buy every random fucking like tech things as a video file and an audio file,
I have like a, I spent like, you know, half a million bucks on home theater shit, you know,
so like, I know like what that market looks like, what the city a crowd and whatever like wants.
And the thing is, like, let's say, like, one thing that's cool about this is like,
you could bring a really, really decent, almost like home theater style space without having to
own a building, you know what I mean? Like, so that's in one in one way, that's good. But like,
on the other hand, it's like, jeez, like the type of TV you can buy now, like for that kind of money
is like near probably like practically an 8K TV, they're pretty damn good.
You know, the only thing is like you, you know, is this going to be comparable experience
kind of maybe. And, you know, and as a video file, it's like the other thing is kind of to
me is, would I buy this on top of all the other crap I have? And the answer is kind of maybe.
And then on top of that, it's like, you know, you're depending on your vision, I don't know how
this thing is going to do it like a stigmatism or whatever the hell else, like, do you have to get
like prescription lenses for your fit? Because I know they had some different views. And that's
a factor too, you know. But I think the difference here, though, is that like, when you have
when the iPhone came out, and still to this day, like the iPhone is not really a computing device
where you're going to use it for long periods of time. It's really more designed to like,
hey, I got a notification for an email, I'm going to go in and respond to them be done with it.
Like it's really a device that you can just like quickly pick up, check a message and respond.
People don't generally use their phones for like an hour straight or two hours straight.
I disagree entirely.
People can and people do but most people do nowadays.
Doing what? What do you do for like an hour?
I mean, dude, ask any high school kid, ask any chicken college, ask anyone,
everyone's on their phone all day long.
I think people are on their phone and they're doing short lived activities,
but they're not sitting there for an hour or two and watching a movie on your phone.
They're not watching a movie, they're watching TikTok for four hours.
Yeah, well, an interesting thing too guys, like you know the time thing,
here's the thing, like I think Preston's right, like what's going on is like,
this has affected like the home theater slash home audio market because you only have so much time
in the day and you're already spending some of it on your phone, some of it on your TV,
some of it like watching whatever. Like that's another thing is like,
how much time do you have left to do this thing?
And if you're watching TikTok and shit, like, are you going to watch TikTok now on this
Vision Pro thing? Are you really going to spend that kind of money for that?
And what's happened is like a lot of people, like a lot of kids,
they're just watching like, I don't know, less expensive stuff.
Like they're like, I can watch stuff on YouTube and I get content on TikTok and this and that.
They're not necessarily spending a ton of time on like buying Blu-ray discs or whatever
the fuck else. So that's why like Best Buy removed all the discs from their stores.
Like everyone's gone streaming and I don't even know how much like,
maybe like people like binge watch Netflix or whatever, but at some level it's like,
there's a generation that I don't know if they watch as much TV as like previous generation did.
Maybe they're playing around TikTok and whatever. I don't know.
And is that crowd going to pay this money for this thing, right?
If everyone had an Apple Vision Pro, like let's say money wasn't a problem.
Let's say the cost was 250 bucks.
I think my thesis would actually stay the same.
I don't think that money is the largest impediment here.
I think it's do people actually want to wear a fucking box on their face for three hours?
And I would guess the answer is no, but I'm curious to see what happens.
What if that box gets smaller though?
What if it doesn't get, maybe not Ray-Bans, but what if it gets
in four years gets so small that it's almost like it's not a big deal?
Because right now I agree, it's a big chunky thing and you're not going to be wearing it.
I'm not wearing it on the subway and like that kind of shit,
but it's going to get to a point I think where it's going to get so small and non-obtrusive that.
I don't know if the physics allows it though, does it?
Because like if you have bad vision or some shit,
can that be compensated for by just like modifying like what's on the screen?
I don't know.
Does that make sense?
Like, can you compensate for like your astigmatism and like nearsightedness,
farsightedness by just like blurring the image on screen, like by compensating?
Or do you have to have like a physical?
This has lenses in it.
You can buy prescription lenses and have it then put it into the device.
But to Randy's point, like to make it smaller, right?
Like if you had to get it small enough to where it's like,
and light enough to where it's like on a pair of glasses,
it's almost like just imagine like is the physics even possible?
I don't know, like with the way the human eye works.
You know what I mean?
Like I'm not sure.
It depends on like your vision if you're nearsighted or farsighted.
But as time goes on, the cost of like getting LASIK or something like that
to deal with the medical aspect of your poor vision is,
you know, cheaper and safer over time.
Like right now, if you want to get LASIK, it's relatively inexpensive.
LASIK's cheap now, but I never got it because the problem is it doesn't solve like,
you wind up with glasses again as you get older.
So it's like it's a temporary fix, kind of.
Well, yeah.
And just you get it again or like, you know, or whatever.
I mean, that's just a natural thing because your eyes are constantly being adjusted
and they're basically being squished basically.
Instead of being a sphere that become a more oval shape,
which gives you that kind of like nearsighted or farsighted vision.
But that's just like a natural thing for your eye that continues to adjust
or change its shape, which means the LASIK surgery you got 10 years ago,
no longer, you know, is the right, much of the right word.
Is there angle?
I'm not sure what the hell it is.
Another weird thing, guys, is like, does this thing like if you buy this,
is it like you get the little eye implants, whatever the thing like,
is this is this like only you would use it?
And therefore, now your wife can't pick it up and use it
because now it doesn't have the right optics in it.
You have to have another one for every family member.
Well, it's not even just that.
It's not only just the optic.
It's also like there's a little kind of pad that you put on your face.
That's like specifically like generated for your specific face shape, right?
Through your cheekbones and everything else and nose size and that kind of stuff.
So that it's as comfortable as possible and not letting in any external light
like into the experience of the light.
And that faceplate by itself is like 200 bucks if you wanted to just buy one, just to buy one.
I suspect that like this device is probably going to be like a one user device.
And even right now, you can't have profiles on an Apple Vision Pro.
I can't have a profile for Chad and then like give my friend Randy
and then Randy has a profile for him.
There's a guest profile that exists.
But each time you launch into the guest profile,
you have to go through like a minute or two minute, you know,
think of this way, like I've got like a pretty fancy sort of home theater thing.
Pretty much anyone would be blown away by this thing.
Like it's epic.
And even in my own house, like some of the people bother to go use it
and other people are just fucking around in their phone.
Like it's really funny.
It's like you would think everyone would want to use it
and be like clamoring to sort of like get in line to,
you know, hey, you're using the theater.
I need to use it, but like it's not really that.
It's it's funny how like it's like people get into their vibe
and they like to do their thing.
And it's the same thing like if you have a study in your house,
you know, the desk and, you know, whatever these custom things,
like not everyone wants to use that.
Some people like to read in bed.
Other people like to go and whatever.
And it's interesting how like so much space in our house gets unused
because not everyone wants that thing.
And the Apple Vision seems to me like so niche.
It's like it doesn't seem like something
that everyone with the house would pick up,
even if it was interchangeable to everybody.
It's like well, I think people would just because it's a
device that can do lots of things.
Like you're into really good quality audio video.
I'm assuming you're into movies and that kind of thing.
So maybe that's the use case that you would use it.
Whereas your wife might want to use it for, you know,
gardening and having and putting three dimensional space
of like letting you know how much food to put in
or water to water this this plant or something like this.
Right. Whereas your daughter might use it
to study the human conduct cadaver, right?
And understand the biology.
Yeah, like the AR experiences.
That's a whole nother thing.
Yeah, like if that picks up like in let's say,
for example, like you have a faucet and it's leaking
or some shit and you're like, hey,
I need to know how to fix this thing.
And you ask the LLM and the thing, you know,
hey, show me the schematics of this.
And if like companies start releasing like more schematics
and almost like you do for PDFs,
you know, you go to like the website
and shows you how to fix whatever you need to fix.
Imagine that, but it's like you have everything ready to go
and you can just repair something and whatever.
That would be pretty cool.
But like, so the AR for sure.
But even then, my wife's never using that AR.
Like she's still gonna make me fix everything.
I don't know.
She might like, like, I think we associate that
to be the case now because it's not a very well adopted
technology. Like AR in general is not really like
it's not commonplace.
But if it be, if there's nothing stopping it
from becoming commonplace, right?
I mean, well, what I meant to say,
she wants me to unclog the sink.
She's not, she doesn't give a fuck what the AR does.
But maybe she'd use it for some other thing.
Like, you know, it could be a game or like, you know,
of course, wife likes to cook or not.
Could be a cooking process, like how exactly?
No, it'd be great for cooking.
Like, how much nutmeg do I have?
I have 1.2, right?
And it can help me to get the correct amount of nutmeg,
you know, added to this recipe or something like this.
The applications are so wide, like, oh, yeah.
So it's so huge that like, that eventually,
I can see that everybody in your household
would want to be using an Apple Vision.
Although the reason why it might be different.
Have you guys used, anybody here used AR
like on your phone for anything?
Like, like substantial?
No, not personally.
I don't know what Randy or Preston has.
Not really.
Nothing substantial.
I mean, the only thing I've like seen,
like from any apps that I have that have AR
that seemed relevant would,
Ubiquity, you know, the router company,
they had this thing where you can like,
take up, you just use AR,
you look at your router with all the ethernet,
you know, your switches, I'm saying like,
and you can tell you like,
which switch is doing what and whatever.
And like, it tells you what it's connected to.
And you can just sort of like,
so if you have a stack of switches,
like you have a commercial application,
you look at your AR and you go,
I want to know what this wire is going to.
And you can click that and it'll like,
tell you like, okay, which, you know, whatever.
So it's kind of like, you do it all in like video,
but like, is that substantial?
I don't know.
Because technically you just open the app
for the switch and it will do the same thing.
So I don't know.
And now they actually have a,
their new switches now have the ability
to like, to blink specific colors.
Right, right.
But you know what I mean?
Like, that's one example I have
that I can't think of a lot where it's like,
companies have actually bothered
to build out like an AR thing
so that you can have that consumer experience.
There's a really cool wine label that people use.
I forget if it's Snoop Dogg or who does it,
but like, it's like a murder series
within a wine label.
It's actually pretty cool.
And that's AR or something?
Yeah, before you buy it,
like effectively like download this app
and it goes through this whole AR experience with you.
It's where like this 3D object,
like the label pops off the label.
I'm sorry, the label pops off the bottle
and it becomes like a movie.
Oh, that's cool.
Interesting, interesting.
You know, historically these new tech,
like the video tech was all like big time
the porn industry that put it out.
Like seriously, like it was like,
remember when I mean,
DVDs came out, it was like,
wait a minute, which DVD standard
is the porn industry going to take on?
It's just made of Macs.
That's going to like,
if you're looking for a really great application of AR,
that's it right there.
Like that's the thing that everybody's going to be like,
I'm going to be wanting to use because
we'll have more incels than ever.
You'll have more incels than ever
because you can just get like two chicks on your bed,
you know, in your bedroom,
having sex, whatever, right?
And you know what's going to happen.
You know it is.
It can't be good.
Yeah, this is the problem.
Like this tech can't be good for people's brains.
Like almost surely.
But yeah, it may further isolate us on the fence.
But the thing is, I'm not sure.
Let's say like some porn industry did something.
Like what is like,
how are they monetizing this, right?
Because you'd have to have something like where that,
you know, because a lot of people
can get porn for free or whatever.
So why are they going to go to this thing to do this?
And I don't know.
It's kind of, it'd have to be amazing of some,
you know, experience of some kind, I guess.
Think of it this way.
There's like a new concept with this whole LLM,
like AI stuff about like digital girlfriends
or digital boyfriends or whatever that is.
And imagine a scenario where you can have an AI
that is your girlfriend slash boyfriend,
whatever the fuck you want to call it.
And that person can be in your house and walking around,
And sitting next to you on the couch
and like an interacting with you and asking.
Yeah, people are going to be super addicted.
Yeah, it's super good.
Because that's like your dead dad or something too.
Like it's going to be really, really,
it's going to be really disruptive.
It could be your dog that you missed.
Not your dog who died last year.
It's like still running around chewing on his chew toy,
Or whatever it is.
Like you can, it's just like,
How much do you guys think?
Like imagine though, but imagine like,
how much do you think people are going to like,
like video, like become little stalkers and shit,
like videotape, you know, their children or their parents
or somebody with the idea that like,
they're going to have a virtual version of that,
like parallel running around with them all the time.
Because like thinking,
because you could basically like create a digital version
of say someone who has died based on video and audio footage.
And they sound pretty good,
we're in a pretty close based on their.
And so, you know, like, there's going to be this
compulsion to then like record more info about people
because like, then you can make a better digital,
you know, what is it called?
Like an immortal digital version of Chad,
and I can talk with him for the rest of my life or whatever.
From a psychology perspective,
that actually is could be quite helpful.
Like a lot of people don't get a chance to say goodbye
to their parents or, you know, whatever, right?
Or you're, you're mad at your mom
because she didn't treat you this way or whatever the hell it is.
And to create like an AI three dimensional,
like feeling real and have their voice
and talk to that person and just say goodbye
and say the thing that you've always wanted to say
to your mother or dad or dog who passed or whatever it is.
And that can be quite, you know,
helpful from a psychological perspective,
even though it's fake.
Yeah, I've thought about that from a therapeutic angle.
It's just the thing is like,
I don't know which one's up beating that like,
which ends up winning the therapeutic angle
or just the psychopathy that's created by the whole thing.
You're going to be a therapist to like,
fix the people that are fucked from the thing.
And then therapists are going to have a thing on their head
to fix themselves from talking to all these people.
Yeah, I can definitely imagine having even an AI therapist
that you're talking in a three dimensional space.
But that's coming for sure.
My thought was like these AR things like the AR and VR,
or just like the digital friend kind of concept.
It's like you're going to have these things since you're a baby.
So the reality is like, we're going to live a world
where that's just completely normalized,
no different than children playing with iPads.
And they're going to have this digital friend.
And oh, there's a whole like layer after layer
of like interesting things there.
But like this, the Apple Vision specifically,
has that resolution and like capability to really,
I guess, bring that to life.
And, you know, maybe with the weight coming down,
I don't know, maybe the way it's going to come down for sure.
Yeah, but how many hours a day are you planning?
Like, let's say you get this thing Thursday, right?
Every like everyone that gets it or like whenever,
let's say it comes on the February 2nd or whatever, right?
For sure that day, you're going to use it.
You're going to kill the battery.
You're going to throw it on the charger immediately.
You're going to use it again that night.
Let's say rinse, wash, repeat for three days,
like right after you get a brand new Xbox.
Then what happens?
That's what I'm more interested in.
Like, I have a sick TV in my living room.
I was lucky enough to just buy one.
It's fucking rad.
I think the TV suffices for me to not have to pick up
a goddamn box and put it on my face to watch TV all the time.
So the question becomes, how often are you really going to use it?
And are you going to be one of those binge users
that uses in the morning charges for lunch
and then uses it again for work in the afternoon?
Like, that's like an Apple Watch with like super shitty battery life.
I don't think that battery life even really matters,
especially for the use cases that we have today.
Like, battery life doesn't matter
if you're just sitting at your desk
and you just plug the fucking thing in
and you can use it without batteries,
using it plugged in the wall.
Same thing if I'm going to sit on my couch
and like watch TV or something like this.
I don't need to run off the battery.
I'll just run off of the thing.
So like, for me, I would probably use it
the majority of the day to get my work done.
I have a much bigger display.
I'd be more productive.
I have more apps that I can interact more quickly
and be more immersed in my world
and have less distractions.
I can like work in a fucking, you know,
mountainside if I want to
and just have less distractions and distractions.
So you think that you will use this
on a daily basis for work
instead of like your monitor.
I wonder how many desktops you can put on this thing.
I would think infinite.
I mean, it's like a fucking iMac screen, right?
For me, what would limit my time
that I spend with this thing is not like,
it would be just the weight of it
and it's like how much it affects
my cheekbones and my neck muscles.
That's really going to be the limiting factor.
But I also assume that like with time,
my neck muscles are going to adjust.
My neck muscles are just naturally going to get stronger
and the amount of time that I can use it
in a 24-hour period will just naturally increase
like over time as I'm just using it more and more.
It's kind of like a motorcyclist or a fighter pilot
wearing like a helmet maybe.
You get used to some of that.
You get used to it.
And I think like between doing that work
and, you know, sitting on the couch at night
and like watching a movie
or some whatever the hell it is,
like I can totally see myself using this
as even like a primary display
for the majority of the work that I do
as long as my neck can take it.
That's the funny thing though.
You have to gamble the 3500 bucks
to figure out if you're going to like it or not
because like there's almost no way for sure
until you've gotten this thing
and you put it on your head.
So then it's like,
okay, maybe I'll eBay this if it doesn't work out.
I mean, you can probably make a profit
if you eBay it, to be honest, right?
The demands would be probably higher
than the supply for sure.
So if you really want to like,
you're not liking it,
you can go ahead and throw in the market
and probably get an extra grand for it.
Then what you paid, probably.
One thing to consider too, in my situation,
and by the way,
this does not mean that it's worth the money
before I say this necessarily,
but for me, I'm traveling.
I don't have a TV.
I don't have a house.
I don't have a display.
I don't have any of that shit
and I've never had it.
So like for me,
this is like a traveling fucking theater
workspace display.
It's like all in one.
So it's gonna,
I'm hoping that it's really convenient
for someone in my situation
who just doesn't have that setup at home,
who has to kind of just like
take it to an Airbnb
and then I can use this
as kind of my like dope setup.
So I don't have to worry about TVs,
any of that bullshit anymore traveling.
It's kind of like I've got it now
and it comes with me
and it's fucking dope.
But that said,
is it worth $3,500 to do?
I don't know.
And that's what we're going to find out.
But I'm hoping that that's a benefit
for someone like me
who travels a lot.
Yeah, man.
That's a really good use case
for people who are digital nomads.
Digital nomads, yeah.
Most of them can't afford Vision Pro, but...
But that's just because it's Gen 1.
Gen 2 I'm sure will be,
yeah, total 30% cheaper
and then 40% lighter.
And again, I did the financing.
I mean, I sound like a cheap bastard,
but like it was like,
it's like 300 bucks a month for 12 months.
I'm like 0% APR.
I'm like, dude, I'll pay 300 bucks a month
for 12 months for this thing.
Like I don't want to spend it all up front.
So I don't know.
I took advantage of that.
It's a lot more money for this hardware
than just like your streaming subscriptions
or whatever too.
So it's disproportionately high, I suppose.
But at the same time,
like I've spent seen amounts of money
for the like per movie
if you go by that metric.
But like, if you're on an airplane,
do you want to be seen with this thing?
I don't know.
I'm not sure.
Like, are you a badass
because you own this
or is it like, you know, or what?
Are you a dork?
It'll be normalized.
I think anybody who's on a flight
wants to escape the flight.
And this allows them to do that
more effectively than anything else.
The question I kind of want to ask
you know, $25,000, $50,000 on the projector
and you can get these, you know,
you can build a really diesel movie theater
in your house, right?
By the way, the projectors now
are really, really good
for like right around 3 to 5K now.
It used to be that you had to spend 50K,
but like the ones that you get now
are damn good unless you're getting to like
an 8K laser and then you can go
nuts buying like a digital projection
systems or something like that.
But yeah, I don't know.
The price has come down a lot.
So that's still the thing.
It's like you're basically weighing
between buying a badass projector
and this thing to some extent too.
But I think the quality of the display
of the Apple Vision Pro is far greater
than what a projector
can possibly give you.
I don't know.
They're pretty damn good now.
No, they're great.
I'm not saying they're not great.
I mean, you'd have to have a yeah,
but to have that experience,
you have to have like a fully
darkened room and all that shit.
And like the reality is
you're not getting that experience
just from the projector.
So it's not there's a lot
more costs involved.
But yeah, yeah, you're getting this
thing wrapping around your head
and it looks amazing.
It could be quite dramatically good.
I think the quality will be there.
I think this is one of the highest
quality displays you've probably
ever seen just because of the micro OLED
technology is fantastic.
I saw this like YouTube video
the day was really kind of fascinating.
And I was kind of saying how like
you use different display technologies.
You got like LCDs
and you got like LED technology OLEDs
and blah, blah, blah, and like
projectors and lasers and whatnot.
And they're all like starting
just technologically
just structured very differently
from each other,
but they're all trying to achieve
the same goal, right?
Giving this perfect display with,
you know, high knits and blah, blah,
and all these things.
And it kind of made an analogy
that there are like there are crabs
that exist in the world that were
that evolved to be the same thing,
even though they started
at different parts of the world
and had different origins.
There are like many forms of crab
that evolved to be almost
identically the same.
It's like an optimal fit.
So it's like some kind of.
Yeah, so for whatever reasons,
the crab is very efficient
and it just kind of naturally evolves
in that particular direction
for whatever reason, right?
And so like displays in general
are kind of the same
where they start radically different
from each other with, you know,
LCDs were cheaper,
but they had like, you know,
light bleed and OLEDs.
OLEDs had like, you know,
better like inky blacks and like,
and they all did like pros and cons.
But as time goes on,
LEDs are becoming better
about, you know, light bleed
and OLEDs getting better
in terms of like being brighter displays
and like all that's kind of like
they're all inching towards each other
to meet that kind of perfect criteria.
Yeah, if you told me
like when I first bought like
my Pioneer Plasma Kuro TV,
this is probably back in like 2000-ish
or something like that.
And then and if you were to tell me
like I would be able to buy
what we can buy now
for the price that we pay
at a Costco or whatever,
I would have been like,
I would probably just not believe
that we'd have image quality
this good, this fast.
Yeah, just 20 years ago.
It's amazing how much has changed.
Two displays in there.
Each is about 4K
and each is about the size
of a Post-it stamp.
Very small, very small displays.
Obviously, your eyes don't need to be
massive displays in there
inches from your face.
But like that should in theory
from a first-person perspective
allow you to create
very cheap technology
relative to building in a home movie theater
like what you probably already have
where you...
Oh yeah, and the delivery costs
are cheaper too.
Well, yeah.
And then the setup,
having a proper home theater setup
is just like you got to have
just oodles of fucking technology
that has to be all configured correctly.
You got to make sure
you have the right kind of rugs,
right kind of like ceilings, color.
Like there's so much complexity
to creating an actual movie theater experience.
But now with this device,
you don't need to like configure it.
You don't need to like get a colorist
to come in and like color correct
your fucking displays, whatever.
Like it just works.
It's a perfect environment.
You know, so in my house
I have like one of the earliest
sort of like Dolby digital,
Dolby Atmos systems in America.
Like I was one of the first people
to buy like a home unit from Trinidad,
which is like a 30-round unit.
It's not cheap.
And so I install this thing
and like have a fuck ton of speakers
we're talking about like 18 plus
and like four subwoofers
and the whole nine yards pretty amazing.
And so I have a pretty good basis
for comparison for anything
as far as like, you know,
what gold standard is out there.
And what I was very, very impressed by
is Apple's most recent earphones
are very, very good for the money.
I mean, holy shit.
Like for 250 dollars,
like if you told me when I was a kid,
I'd be able to have that for 250.
It's just a simple modern miracle
as how good they are
compared to a lot of other comparable things.
And the interesting thing is
like the surround capabilities
that they've baked in
with the sort of like
the psycho acoustics around
is really quite decent in them.
Like if you've watched your
on your iPhone or whatever
you've used the Apple,
what is it the Pro 2
whatever they're called now
and you can move your screen around
and it kind of like
orient the sound accordingly.
It's pretty damn good
to the extent that like
when you watch movies
that have like a surround style experience
when you put this thing on your face
what's going to be different is like
the image is so front and center
that like the audio cues
for like where the sound should be
is going to be so like in your face
that I think it's going to be
a lot easier to create
sort of a quote unquote surround experience
and fake you into thinking
that there's like missiles and shit
flying all around you.
The other thing is too like
when you go to like
when you set up
you watch movies with like surround sound
only a very small fraction
of the programming material
is in surround and shit
and the reason for that
is because it would be very distracting
to the viewer
to actually experience like audio
where it sounds like
you're in a fish tank
the entire time with sound everywhere
like if you've ever used
like a Dolby Atmos test thing
on like Apple TV
you can like it's got like bubbles
and shit everywhere
it's got like a jungle
with you know crickets
and shit floating around
but in a movie you only get that sense
only like for a few minutes here and there
so really like the vast majority
of the crap you put in a home theater
is for like a small fraction of the time
you're actually watching the movie
to get that effect
and so I think like
between the headphones
and the Apple Vision
you're probably going to get
a very very good
like movie experience
on a personal level
that would cost you
just way way more money
than you used to
a long time ago
so I think for a home
just for a home movie watching
this thing is going to be popular
for certain people for sure
yeah I'm very curious
with the audio part
because all the reviews
I've seen thus far
that people talk about it
like the audio quality
is impressively good
like it's shockingly good
that I've heard
like literally people say it's shocking
no I bet you it is
and the reason is
because like just by
what's in the headphones
I was impressed
and what you can do
with like localized sort of beam forming
when you put these things
right around your ear is
you actually can eliminate
a lot of what we deal with
in a home experience
and that is standing waves
so like when you have a room right
you have issues with
how much absorption you have
how much diffusion you have
what's the reverb
and all of that
you know as a musician
you know I'm talking about like
you have to have all of these things
sort of practically perfect
to make everything sound great
whereas when you have this
contained around your head
like that's all controlled
and you spend way less money
on all of that shit
and just more can just direct the audio
straight to your ear
and you don't have standing waves
you know what standing waves are
when they bounce off walls
and come back and create like
peaks and valleys in the acoustics
you don't have anything nearly
as much of that
when you do near field
this is why like your subwoofers
in a car sound really good
because like the bass waves
are so long wavelength
they pass out of your car
and they don't bounce back to you
whereas in a room
the bass actually hits a wall
and comes back to you
and you'll have nulls and peaks in the room
that's why when you move around the room
the bass sounds worse
and you know it's too boomy in the corners
and certain seating positions
where when you're wearing this on your head
like the reality is
you have like a custom built home theater
for your head
and the acoustics will be like really clean
when you have that system
so even if you like didn't have a perfect thing
I mean the fact is like this thing on your head
is probably gonna be way way way better
than anything you're getting
when you're traveling especially
so someone who's willing to spend that money
on like a home theater
that's really expensive
is certainly gonna buy this
if they really love that experience
yeah that's one of the questions
I want to I want to answer for myself
is like is the audio quality
gonna be good enough to watch you know
an action film
whether it's a chopper going
I can't imagine
because you don't have a subwoofer
you don't have that kind of that low bass kicking
that you want to hear
when there's like a missile going by
or a helicopter passing by your by your head
or whatever
you want to feel that that kind of you know vibration
but that really can't be like replicated
without proper subs
and even most people don't get that experience
well at a home setting I would think
so like I think this would be better
than what most people get
but not perfect
if you had a perfect system
but does that mean that some
that somebody you know some manufacturer
of speakers is going to say
hey we're coming out with a new speaker
it's for the Apple Vision Pro
it's for a home movie theater
specifically for the Apple Vision Pro
and it doesn't have the high ends
or the mids
it's just basically a subwoofer
that kind of combines with your Vision Pro
and gives you some much more full experience
and it'd be like 200 bucks for that thing
or 300 bucks for that thing
well see like I've gone to the extent
in my particular room
where I've actually built like near field subs
behind every seat
and what that does is it creates
that like kick in your chest
without having to build like lots of
I'd probably like a small handful
of a dozen people who've done this
on the planet probably
and it's different than like those bass shakers
it's different than like just having a bunch of subs
and turning them up loud
this allows you to get that 50 hertz like chest thump
that you just can't replicate
by putting it on your head
so there's a visceral feel to sound
that cannot be fully replicated
unless you have true subs in a big room
but like so there's like
but there's different degrees of perfection
and the reality is like
most people's experience with sound
is kind of what they know
in their headphones these days
like where it used to be
like you know your dad
used to have a you know
like a set of speakers
and a turntable or whatever
now most people are just using headphones
for everything
and this is this will probably be
a serious upgrade for most people
I would think
yeah most likely
but my question is
is our new speakers going to be created
that are for the Apple Vision Pro
oh well part of what I was going to say
about that whole rant was
it's partly a physics problem
so with sound it's not so simple as being like
oh I'm just going to get better based
by sticking like special devices
Apple has really really good sound engineers now
and like whatever is possible
via the physics they're going to put in
is what I was going to say
yeah I don't think they need
like I don't think they at this point
need any outside help anymore
for their audio stuff
like they've hired so many engineers
and like experts and whatnot
and some of which I know
like and have talked to before
and so I know they got their shit together there
but it's the physics problem
it's not really like
you know if I just have a better company
or better tech
it's not a tech issue
it's like you have to move a certain amount of air
to create certain amount of wavelengths
so therefore like that's why a subwoofer
has like a certain diaphragm size and whatnot right
right that's why I'm saying that
it's that I'm kind of postulating that
that manufacturers of speakers
whether it be Carmen or Sony or whatever
they're going to start producing
assuming not so much
but does this cover your ears though?
Am I wrong or no?
No it doesn't like it doesn't cover
like the speakers are actually like
kind of behind your temples
right the actual speakers themselves
and they're actually shooting
into your into your into your ears
and so like I can but I can just imagine
a world where the speaker quality
is actually really really good
but because of its small size
you can't get that movement of air
as you were saying
and so you're going to want to have
a subwoofer that pairs with your
with those speakers in the headset
to create better quality audio without
oh you're saying to get like
some visceral effect
it's not on your head
it's just outside
yeah it's outside just in the room somewhere
so you got a media room
or a movie theater room
and it's just specifically designed
for your for Apple Vision
and the speakers are
the trouble with subs too
by the way another key point
subs when you're in a room
are very very location specific
so you have to tune the sub
where the sub sits
and also the the the
what do you call it the um um EQ of it
and everything has to be tuned
to the like listening position
the main position
so that's why in a car
when like you know you have like Bose
you have Harman Kardon
and all these brands
you've seen these like
where the car is like
sets very specifically
what they do is they design that car
very specific to that seating position
the problem with doing subs
and stuff in a room
is that they won't sound right
as you walk around
it will have different characteristics
like it'll be built in one area
so the difference is
at the physics problem
it's not like solvable in a sense
but that's but the difference is
is that you have a microphone
or a series microphones
on the headset itself
so it knows what it's hearing
right from the from the
so as you move
or if you turn your head
or move around in the room
it can tweak the the EQ
if you want to call it that
of the speaker
to create the correct sound
that it wants
for that particular position
Yeah, that gets that gets interesting
quick like a lot of computation too
I have the the Sony
I think it's like a Sony HTA 9
or something like that
it's like it's four speakers
four Sony speakers
that they create like 16
or 20 speakers
so something like this
and so it does so by like
admitting sounds to each other
they have microphones
and speakers
and each one of the four speakers
and they can be
placed anywhere in the room
it doesn't have to be like
you know symmetrical or whatever
it can just be like
ones can be high
one can be low
one can be here
one can be there
like it can be pretty much
placed anywhere in the room
and then it goes through a process
of like admitting sounds
from each speaker
and listening to itself
and then changing the sound
to create the three-dimensional
space of audio
and it can do that
there's like a test
right to kind of
instead of doing a calibration
it'll do a continuous calibration
where it's continuously listening
to what it is
that it's hearing
so as you're moving in the room
or turning your head
it'll just dynamically change
the speakers
and how they admit sounds
one place they're doing
some of that
is you've seen the thing
where if you wear your
Apple headphones
and you look at your phone
like and you turn your head
and stuff
the sound will still sound
like it's coming from your phone
as opposed to being centered
to your head
it's centered to your image
does that make sense
like as you rotate your head
you know the person's voice sounds
like it's like going more
to the left or the right
depending on where that person
should be in your field of vision
so yeah they do that
like that part for sure
that's already done today
like if I listen
if I watch Apple TV today
and I have my AirPod
pros in my ears
if I turn towards the kitchen
like away from the television
the sound will come
out of my left ear
right and not so much
in my right ear
like in the Apple vision
the actual Apple AirPod
pros already kind of like
adjust the sound
as you turn your head
and look in different directions
not so much
walking around the room
but it doesn't work
like your orientation
of what direction you're looking
to change the sound
and make it feel
like they have three-dimensional space
if anybody wants to come up
by the way
and ask a question
or make a comment
or whatever
you guys are looking
to join the stage here
I wonder when they're going
to get manufacturing up
where like you can get one
if you want one
or is that going to take years
it seems like a complicated
thing to build
I mean that's hard
thing to do
because like I think the manufacturing
is difficult
and the device really isn't made
for consumers
it's really made for developers
that kind of buy
and start thinking up new ideas
in these cases for the tech
but it's just it's unlikely
that you'll be able to buy one
for the first like probably
two three months I think
like before you can just walk
in a store
just buy one you know
yeah another interesting thing
is like being able to demo
this can be interesting
because like they're going to have
what several versions
depending on different people's
vision and shit
like or do you have to order it
to play with it
like it's going to be tricky
because the vision thing
especially for depending
on the prescription you have
they have like two different
glasses or lenses
one is like the generic one
that will work
for most people
in most scenarios
and then there's one
that you can get
the prescription one
where you give them a license
prescription
and then they'll make the
oh they'll make it specific
to your prescription
yes it costs about 150 bucks
for those
within 100 bucks
for like the generic prescription
they're not prescription
there's generic lenses
you know I'll probably get
the prescription lenses
myself at some point
that's pretty cool
I wonder how like you know
do you go to an eye doctor
and they give you the little lenses
or do you have to go through Apple
you buy it through Apple
Apple goes to their company
called Vice
whatever the hell they're called
and they make all the lenses
but when you buy
you have to like upload
a valid prescription
you know thing
so like when I
when I ordered mine
on you know online
I like specifically chose
not to get the prescription one
just because
it was just going to add time
I like how much
until I hit the actual buy button
do you know what I mean
and I was worried about like
you know getting it
getting like sold out
or whatever
so I just like you know
no prescription
oh so you've got it
before it got sold out then
yeah I'm picking mine up
on February 2nd
you can give us like
like a review
of how this thing went
I'm going to the Apple store
and sit down for like
a half hour
or whatever
and they're going to walk me through
getting like configured
and all that kind of shit
and then try it out
it's a lot of fun
well you know
the other thing too
is you might want to just hold on
to this first edition thing
and not use it at all
because these things
end up becoming worth
a lot of money
later like
I always regret
having not bought
the first iPhone
and whatever
and just held on to it
I still have my original iPhone
from 2007
where the hell it was
yeah I think it was
2007 was iPhone
when like
if you have an iPhone
that's still packaged
like it's like unwrapped
like that thing is worth
a lot of money today
but it's hard to know
whether or not
that makes sense here
because you don't know
whether or not
the Apple Vision
is even going to go
the direction of the iPhone
in terms of its success
and adoption
yeah like the cultural relevance
or whatever you want to call it
as far as like
valuing as a collector's piece
I actually have
of course that's what we thought
that's what we thought
about the iPhone too
but yeah here we are
I have an Apple
digital camera
which people don't even know
they actually made digital cameras
this is like
in the I think
was like in the early 90s
or mid 90s
like it was like
1.3 megapixel
like physical camera
that you could take a photo with
I actually have one of those
back in the day
never took off
like you know
they sold them for like
maybe a couple of years
whatever it was
then they kind of like
got rid of it
in the time period
when I think it's
Stephen was about to leave
or just left
or something like that
and but like
it's a completely
failed Apple device
that I actually have a
physical thing
yeah yeah
it's like owning a
a lease or some shit
that we ever made
any software for
maybe devices
that completely fail
are also pretty valuable
like a Newton
or something like that
you know what I was interested
in I was looking to find
like you know
the old analog
that sit you know
like just ancient computers
like the ones that were
filled rooms and stuff
and they're just so cool
looking like
the ability to find one of those
and you can almost find
none of that online
as far as like
collector pieces and things
and I was
because I was looking
for something
I had a place
I needed to like
put something cool in it
a really large object
and I didn't want to like
you know commission a sculpture
or some shit
because it gets really expensive
so what I ended up buying
instead of a gigantic
server computer thing
that I thought I was going to get
was I bought a jet engine
it was a 1960s
like a four fighter plane engine
like dug it out of a ground somewhere
and basically cleaned it up
it looks amazing
and it was like
it cost me about like
maybe three
between getting it
and then cleaning it up
it maybe cost me about 4k
which it's a gigantic
like literally a fighter jet engine
you can't get them anymore
by the way
because they're not
like the US government
doesn't want to buy them
but it's just one of those
like vintage pieces
that I kind of got
and I just hung it
and that hanging that fucker
was a big thing
but like we have big
like steel girders
and our building whatever
but yeah just interesting stuff like that
but yeah these collector pieces
and stuff
I wonder if this will be one of those
I mean it kind of has to be
it's kind of a
it's very rare
that Apple comes up
with a new product in general
and in some sense it doesn't even matter
if it's successful
or a complete flop
it'll be like kind of a thing
for the history books of the company
yeah the question is
will it appreciate
more than the Apple stock itself
and the answer is probably yes
if you're an investor
you're like huh
do I buy the stock $3,500
at this price
or do I get this thing
and stick it in a box
and give it to my kids in 20 years
yeah I don't know
I think your kids
me like what the hell is this thing
kids don't understand
a lot of things
I sent a picture of
I don't know if you guys remember
of WinApp
remember you ever used WinApp
oh yeah of course
I found a picture of WinApp
I sent to my brother
so I'm just like
remember WinApp
this thing was fucking awesome
back in the day
but nobody knows what WinApp is
unless you were
unless you're an old man like me
yeah you had to be like
into early mp3s too
and a lot of people back then
didn't actually own a computer
believe it or not
like now it's you know
people take it for granted
in a sense
but like when when you remember
when like sound cards
weren't even that good initially
right so like there was a point
where sound cards
got good enough
where you could use something
like WinApp
and then the internet
got good enough
where the odds
that you had more
than like a modem connection
you had an actual broadband
connection of some kind
you can download
whatever you wanted
there was like a brief period
where that was like a big thing
and a lot of people
that were just
were not that into computers
and tech at the time
so there's a truly
an entire generation
I think that like missed
like you know
there was of course
the iPod got big on that
remember like you know
being able to house
bunch mp3s and stuff
but really that was a brief
period in history
if you think about it
because by the time
iPhone came out
you're talking 2007
when was iPod out
like maybe 2001 or 2002
I don't remember what it was
yeah I think it was 2001 or 2002
yeah we're talking about
a very brief period of time
where like WinApp
and things like that
where people were exposed to it
knew what they were
even people that were living
at the time
like don't know what it was
it's crazy
in that time period
like if you wanted
the idea of digital music
hadn't really quite hit yet
and so nobody listened to music
on their computers in general
unless you were some sort of like
tech nerd like I was
when I was younger
younger lad
and WinApp was just kind of
this kind of music
it was like music player
it was like kind of like
Spotify a little bit
but you could play mp3s
which was generally
like a very new technology
and you could buy
and you can download like
I remember WinApp like skins
I vaguely remember
having skin
you could like download
different colors
and like personalize
your player
and give it like
yeah that back
back in that time period
like every software
the hot thing to do
was like to release skins
for everything
like that was a big thing
and WinApp was one of those
and I don't remember
where I downloaded mp3
back at that time period
I think it was
Napster I think
yep before Napster
before Napster
and I think you could get it through
like I remember
like the earliest mp3s
I downloaded
when I was super young
was through
I think it was like AOL
and I would download
like Simpsons
like Simpsons
like sound bites
from like Homer saying dough
or Grandpa Simpson
saying something funny
or Bart you know
I was like you know
I'm into Simpsons back then
but it wasn't like music yet
because the music files
were way too large
at that time
and the mp3s
didn't exist yet
it was only wave files
right and wave files
are like super large
especially for the time period
where you're like
yeah wave files
what you used to take off
like that's what CDs are recorded
and it's like just a bit
it's about like 10 times
the size of an mp3
so even just downloading
like a 15 second
you know audio wave file
of Homer Simpson
saying dough 13 times
that would take you know
maybe a couple hours
to download
or something like this
because of that
it wasn't even 56k modems
at that time
not to not to mention
your hard drive
at that time
was like maybe what
I don't remember what it was
like maybe 200 meg or something
like we're gig
a gig was like gigantic by then
right like it was
yeah like god you have a gigabyte
hard drive
what is this like
what do you what do you download
in the Library of Congress
exactly now we have like
terabytes of data
that are pretty cheap
and nobody knows
why they have their
these gigantic hard drives
what size of vision pro
would you
would you buy
did you buy one
or did you not buy one by the way
I didn't get one
um what what do you mean
what sizes are there
like there's like
there's a 256 to 512
with the one terabyte
what would you get
if you were buying one
um like I don't know
typically I don't
want to have a gigantic collection
of movies and stuff
on my phone or whatever
so even my phones
I've gone to like using more cloud
more streaming
and I'll use
I go for the cheaper drives
because I never fill these things anymore
yeah like you know
even even if you're going to go on a plane
or something
you could like put some
chunk of playlists on you know your phone
so you don't have to have a connection
or the internet or whatever
but on the apple vision
I guess like um I would probably go
for the smaller one
I mean like whatever
you would normally use in your phone
like why how big did they get
you said you go from 256
to the base model
and it goes up it goes up to one terabyte
a terabyte
that's a lot for a device like that
what the hell are people putting on
that to have a terabyte
well I think like if you think about it
like if you're going to be downloading
in immersive world
whether that be is like you know
walking around
dress apart or or like even just like
sitting in a speeder on
Tatooine or something like this
those immersive worlds are super detailed
they're not just like little jpegs
right they are quite high fidelity
and they were going to be quite
you know expensive in terms of disk space
and even like having like AR
where like the example of like
they have a F1 racer
that you can like put into your house
and you know look at
and you can take the wheel off
and you can look at it like very closely
and get a really good understanding
of like even its texture
and those AR things are going to be
really expensive in terms of disk space
not to mention that gaming
I think is going to be quite massive
like all like I think I think
it's going to be pretty intense
I think it depends on how much
simultaneous crap you want though
the thing is like movies whatever
those are fairly finite sizes now
and like you know you can fit them
in a reasonable space
just like you would normally in your phone
the thing is like I would think
like I would just delete the other stuff
I'm not going to watch the same thing
over and over again probably
well I think it depends like
when you watch a streaming movie
on Netflix or you know YouTube or whatever
they limit the amount of like bandwidth
that you can consume for a particular file
I think it's like 20 megabits per second
or 25 megabits per second
which is really good to be fair right
which is really good yeah
in fact most people have way too much
to like download like they pay for way too much
download capacity on their broadband connection
because almost nobody's using that
but yeah 25 gets you a lot
it gets you a lot
but if you're going to watch
if you watch a like a 4k blu-ray
yeah that's about 55
yeah it goes 55 up to 100
depending upon you know
yeah momentary yeah burst
yeah and also like this different audio
generally DVDs have multiple audio
like they'll stereo
they'll have like 5.1
they'll have like Dolby
and they have like different audios
they also take up different amounts of space
for those things as well
so it's like if you're going to have
this really high quality display right
because right now like most people's TVs
are probably they don't want to support Dolby
they don't support HDR 10 or 10 plus right
so they don't they don't have the quality of the display
for most people to actually benefit
from a 4k 100 megabit or 15 megabit per second video
but once you have an Apple vision pro
you have like a really high quality display
where you can get you know
adobe vision really like high
high-end quality you know
it makes now
it'd be interesting to see if
Apple starts releasing though like
higher quality versions of videos
since they own the video market
essentially with iTunes or whatever
yeah they're there
I wonder if you get 100 videos
yeah they're doing that
they're doing that when they
when vision launches on on
favor seconds that's gonna be 150 movies
that you can watch on Apple TV
and Disney Plus
that are not only high resolution
but they're also 3d as well
it's that 3d aspect
all that's gonna be much more expensive
because now it's you're doubling
the amount of amount of video right
so I think these
the Apple Vision Pro disk space
is going to get burnt up
real fast real easily
oh you guys mentioned earlier
by the way the 3d scene
like what happened to that
so I followed that pretty closely
from the perspective of like
you know the experience with a projector
the kind of glasses you had to wear
to make it work
and like the uptake
in the video file community
and what happened was
there was a period of time
where everyone's like
oh I'd like to get a projector
that has 3d capability
because this is where that you know
this is where everything's going to go
and people were like
and at this point like
if I'm buying a projector
I'm not worried about
whether it does 3d or not
and the reason is because like
so I have a 3d projector
I have the whole thing
set up properly
and what I found was that
number one the content
the number of pieces of content
that has 3d
are somewhat limited
you have to you have to be
like in the mood
to say watch 3d
and like swap into these glasses
we watch based on our mood
for what we feel like watching
and it just so happens
that like 99.9% of those items
are not in 3d
so it's like this weird situation
where it's like
it's a very niche specific thing
where like an ultra video file
that has a fancy 3d system
is going to be like
okay let's put the 3d thing on
so we can be mesmerized by this
but like there's a pretty good chance
that either someone else in the room
doesn't like the movie
someone else doesn't the room
doesn't like 3d
someone else doesn't you know
so it's like a weird situation
where like your opportunity
to use it was small
and then even when you did
like only certain movies
were interesting in 3d
like I think Tron was good
and like there were some
there's a few others that like
but like a lot of the time
the 3d just was a distraction
it didn't look dramatically better
your immersion was not dramatically better
I think people
especially in the early days of 3d
they would they would abuse
the fuck out of it
like they would like
oh there's that's it yeah
but they would just like fly something
onto the tip of your fucking nose
and then just be like
orientate
like make your make your eyes
go in three different directions
you know like I think
that was the problem
the early days
I remember I watched like
I think it was Polar Express
some of that movie
that Christmas movie Polar Express
with Tom Wright
I remember that being
one of the earlier things
I've seen where it was like 3d
and it was just like
now you're on a roller coaster
like it was just so over the top
like beating you in the head
with the 3d element
rather than just being
rather than just down
that was good like for theme parks
and stuff
like it was fun to see that
like for a brief moment
but like the problem was
that like keeping up with that
on you know let's say
all of your movies were like this
and even if they dumbed it down
and made it subtle
what happens when you make it subtle
is the average person's like
wait this is not that much different
why did I pay all this money
and if you don't have a bunch
of whiz bang whatever you know
so it's like almost like a demo
but when push came to shove
like most people
and the industry combined
like they've largely stopped
worrying about making 3d versions
of these things
because the consumers were not in it
like so that would be the
that would be the bearish case
for the apple pro would be like
the number of people
that want to wear this thing
on their head
regardless of how much it is
or the oculus
or any of these things
like you know how big
is this market
what percentage of people
actually are going to wear it
and use it
it's it's a small
it's a definitely a much smaller
fraction of people
to buy an iphone or whatever
it's it's like maybe five percent
of people
ten percent something
I'm not sure
but there's an opportunity here
for people to create
immersive video
not so much 3d
where you just have like a
two-dimensional screen
and 3d objects on that screen
but an entire immersion
where you were like
you are on the battlefield
of brave heart
and you're watching
you know mel Gibson
you know you know
like all the clashing
and everybody fighting
and you can literally look
in 360 degrees
and see the your entire world
around you
and because of that
you're like
you feel like you're in the mood
around the corner
and mel gibson's like hey
are you around the corner
come out you know
like they're doing
weird shit interacting with you
while you're smiling
maybe they could even generate
like even though brave heart
wasn't created in an immersive way
maybe the AI could do that
like AI could create
a three-dimensional world right
and generate the scene around you
so that when you're like
that battle scene's happening
like you feel like
you're actually there
and you can like
you know see the you know
beasts that are swimming
through the ocean
or whatever the hell it is
and you just feel like
like that tension in your heart
like oh my god
I'm terrified right now
Actively generated 3D worlds
are apparently like
about one to two years away
from being really impressive
I think this is what
Nvidia is saying
you know between
like Gaussian splatting
and you know
just like diffusion models
or whatever
and the ability to create
a cohesive thing
not just a bunch of
AI gobbledygook
simulates reality in some way
is supposedly going to get
very very good within
within a few years
so that you stick that
into the Apple Vision Pro
that changes the equation completely
because we're we're looking
at our old world of like
playing with movies and like
and then comparing
what it's going to be like
to do that on a home theater
versus Apple Pro
but maybe the real reality is like
we may consume entertainment
differently by that point
in which case like
people just be laughing at
big screen movies entirely
and be like what are you
what were you doing?
Yeah it'd be like before talkies
right in the old days
there was a there's no audio
in films before they called
yeah it's like what do you
what do you mean a wire
connected your phone to the wall
like this type of thing
I mean maybe that's going to be
the argument about like
the revolution of the movie
the movie going experiences
no one are going to a theater
it's now removing the theater
and just immersing you
entirely in the world of
you know Jaws you know
and and being on the boat
with Richard Dreyfuss
you know and seeing Jaws pop up
and like and you just feel
like all that
it feels more real
and it's more more fun
and more engaging
movie going experience
more immersive
just imagine you're now
a character in the thing
and you're like just
things are talking to you
and you're talking back and whatever
so some of it's scripted
but some of it's kind of like
figures out how to
you know make a little choose
your own adventure
type of thing out of it
you mean that's totally possible
with like with AI right
LLMs and that kind of stuff
like I can see that
especially in gaming
maybe the left less over films
I think for films
directors and writers
want to tell the story
they don't want you to control the story
they want this is the story
I want to tell right
but for gaming it's
I can totally see that
more applicable
where I can choose my own adventure
and engage in people
and characters
and walk around
in three-dimensional space
and you know participate
in the Star Wars universe
you know where I'm having lightsaber
fights with everybody around me
I just posted a video
to my friends
Preston and Randy on here
like a haptic
like the jacket
like hits you
when you get like hit by
ready player one
yeah like ready player one
and so you'll like
that's going to be a thing
where you put on a jacket
or a body suit
and you feel you know
you get charley-horst
you know when somebody
they hit you with a sword
or whatever the hell it is
and just kind of like VR condom
or some shit too
probably again
again porn
porn I mean porn's gonna be huge
obviously obviously
like going without saying
one other thing
one other thing
I don't know I don't know
if you guys are into sports at all
but I do think that's another category
is putting this thing on
and like being like front row
at a basketball game
and like being able to look
and watch the game
like you're like court side seats
and that kind of shit
oh that's gonna be huge
people love that
that's gonna be a game changer too
and I mean I don't know
how long it's gonna take
but you gotta think
that's coming soon too
is you'll pay for like
your season tickets now
are gonna be through your
through your headset
and now you're
you don't need to go
the game necessarily
you're just gonna buy your ticket
you're just gonna get the radest
you're gonna be court side
watching you know
basketball or whatever the event is
so I don't know
what else could happen Randy is like
you could be winding up
sitting next to other people
that are also court side
and you're chatting with those people
but like another group of people
is also sitting
in the exact same position in a sense
so everyone who's watching
feels like they have court side seats
but they also have friends
to hang out with
and talk to while you're playing
while the game's going on
you can turn your head to the left
yeah right absolutely yeah
that's awesome
I was just I was just talking to
Randy the other day
I was just kind of like
hypothecating that like
Randy lives in LA
and I and I live in New York
I was you know
opposite sides of the country
and but maybe we want to watch
a Star Wars movie together right
and so we can jump into a
speeder on Tatooine
and we're sitting side by side
I can turn to him and see him
and he can turn to me and see me
and I can talk to him
and comment on the Luke Skywalker's
fighting blah blah blah whatever
and like have a movie experience
with my friend
who I don't get to see that much
because he lives on the other side of the world
or other side of the country
and have him be more be closer
and have like physical experiences
with one more nail in the coffin
of like stadiums
and movie theaters
it's gonna be a problem
going bye-bye
yeah well
you know it's like
every moment you spend
doing something else
is a moment that you're paying
for one you know
a different
you're paying less
for a different experience
so it's like
these things like vampire
because these are all vampires
on your time
only so much money
can be made off your time
in a sense
because you can't
unless you're gonna watch
four movies at once
you know you're watching both of it
you're doing things
like simultaneously
but humans clearly
are like serial unitaskers
we don't want to do two things at once
so the odds are that like
this just takes away
from other entertainment venues
as these things get better
if you look at the
that like giant ball globe theater
that just launched
like last year
you know what I'm talking about
where it's like a huge
just like it's
you're in a sphere
and it's like on the inside
and the outside
just like a massive display
now that thing looks insane
that thing is massive
and it must like be so fun
to go you know
see a concert
or whatever
but that thing was like
you know a billion dollars
two billion dollars
and now you can kind of
have that experience
with an Apple vision pro
right in effect
for three thousand dollars
four thousand dollars
whatever it is
that's pretty
I mean that's pretty big
it's a good point
that's probably
it's probably going to hurt
their business
a little long term
you know what
this being a luxury device
you can imagine
who this would be petaled to
it's going to be petaled
to people that want
the better version
of like Tinder
or whatever else apps
are out there
for dating and stuff
because imagine like
you're trying to meet
like somebody
you know in a dating experience
and now you can kind of hang out
with their 3D avatar
and do shit together
but but you're not even
in the same part of the world
or something like that
it could it could
like like
make the incel problem
a little less of a problem
because right now
like the way that things happen
with these dating apps
is like that you swipe
and you do this
you do that
a lot of superficial shit
but you're not actually
really interacting
with the person
whereas like when you do it
with this thing
it's like almost like
you are sort of going
to a bar or whatever
and you know
you can actually
chat with people
there's a like
there's an interesting tendency
like if you meet
someone in person
or like has spoken to them
at length in person
you sort of like develop
a deeper respect for them
than if you're just a number
on a piece of paper
like this is true for example
if you're applying for a job
and if you go do
and if you go do like
a little internship for a month
the person's way more likely
to want to take you on
as an employee
because they have like developed
in their head
they don't want to do you wrong
because they like you
or they know you
so there's a tendency
to like treat people
as actual human beings
when you have a real
real experience with them
and I think this might be
one of those situations
where it's like
I remember like
when you played like
online games
like MMOs and stuff
you definitely made
some really good friends
doing that
if you did this for a long time
but at the same time
it's like you were always using
your cartoonish avatar
if you did this thing
where people actually were themselves
not just some digital copy
I mean a digital representation
of themselves
it's accurate
then it might actually be pretty good
for like the dating scene
or whatever
but especially like the luxury market
the people that really
really want to find someone legit
they probably get tired
of using those apps and things
like going
going to digital mixers
yeah they would yeah digital mixer
and they would probably be willing
to pay the high exorbitant amount
because like people
that are wealthy
who you know
want to find a mate or whatever
they're not necessarily worried
about the cost of the thing
right they're worried about time
they're worried about trying to
where am I going to go
to meet somebody
and all these kind of concerns right
that can be an interesting thing
for a lot of guys out there
who are you know dating
whatever like
and it's kind of generally expected
that men pay for the for the first date
or whatever
that can be pretty expensive
right and I can you know
be hundreds of dollars per date
or whatever depending
where you're doing
what you're going
and whatnot
and sometimes like women
get pissed off at you
if you're just offered to get a coffee
like they like oh
I'm worth more than a coffee
or some fucking bullshit
but maybe with this
maybe maybe this is like
the answer to that sense of like
Apple vision pro
is going to change that now
nobody's paying for the first date anymore
because you don't have to pay
for girls dinner anymore
talk about revolutionary
you give them like
you give them a little gift
of a 3d pokemon
or some nft or some bullshit
they can get a monkey pick
they can get a monkey pick
you know instead of dessert
I got an nft rose for you
I don't know
like people don't generally meet online
like if you if you're going tinder
whatever and you're swiping
and you connect somebody
you can you chat on
whatsapp or within the app
or whatever
but like it's rare
I feel like people actually
just do like a zoom call
or something of that like
like they're generally
adverse to that
I'm not really sure why
but I feel like they kind of
use vision pro to
to meet in person
I don't know
they these dating apps
and stuff are before my time
so I have like
truly zero experience with them
but I wonder if like
yeah does this change
that paradigm in some way
maybe it doesn't
maybe like you already have
like facetime or whatever
if you really wanted to see
someone you could
but I wonder if this changes
that paradigm somehow
where maybe you're like
you're in different games
when you meet someone
sit next to you
that happens like basketball
or whatever
the difference here
is that like
if the digital representations
feel real enough
it could be possible
that like the human brain
like considers it
basically real
and therefore like
the emotional connections deeper
than you would get
like just on a phone
or just video conference call
or something like that
I don't know
I would suspect that people
would prefer to not be themselves
and they would want to have a digital
fake version of their
fake version
that they feel more confident about
that's you know
more attractive or taller
high dracne or something
high dracne
or like whatever
whatever it is
like I think
people are becoming more
in cell with time
like more people are single today
than you know
in the 30s
than ever before in a sense
and so like
there's like a social anxiety
that I think people have
today that didn't exist
a long time ago
you know 20 years ago
for example
yeah a lot of interesting stats
on that stuff like
like you know teen pregnancies
used to be a problem
and now it's like teens
aren't getting pregnant at all
it's interesting
like you can't get anyone
to have sex with each other
it's really strange
you would think like
because of what's portrayed
in porn or whatever else
like that everyone's
you know fucking everybody
but this is simply not the case
like it's the amount of sex
has gone down generally
a lot in the western world
and most of that
my suspicion is
is that it's mostly tech
associated or tech
adjacent reasons
whether it's the financial implications
whether it's the whatever
but tech has sort of like
it faults for this
in a sense
and I'm wondering if like
Apple vision
all these things
does that reverse that trend
or does that make that
even worse
that's why I was kind of like
half joking
but not with the porn question
about whether it's really good
probably not
and it's going to create
even more unreal expectations
when your AI girlfriend
is so much nicer
than 99% of people
you're going to meet
like that's going to
create a problem
for people
because like your ability
to tolerate people
is like everyone has
something you don't tolerate
about them
including your spouse
like there's something
that is like great to you right
whereas in like
little AI machine girlfriend
can you know always
ultimately conform
to the thing
that like pumps your dopamine
the most or something
or whatever
and I don't know
if like you'll ever be able
to like interact
with normal people properly
once you're exposed
to lots and lots of agents
is my suspicion
yeah when you said
you gave people
an opportunity
to engage in some
in something that
gives them the experience
of a partner
friend spouse whatever
but no none of the responsibility
and none of the risk of it
you're never going to get hurt
you never the deal
of their bullshit
or their their you know baggage
or whatever
like it's just going to be
a very tempting thing
for a lot of people
because they're going to get
a lot of people like you know
get cheated on
or whatever
like something like this
and they they hate men
or they hate women
because they got you know
cheated on
once or twice or before
and then all of a sudden
they've got other options
just like well this
this thing will never cheat on you
right this thing will always be
your will always listen to
this thing
and remember like
for most people
this is going to be
their first experience
with sort of intimacy
in a sense
because like you're talking
about growing up
with these things
agents of various types
from when you're a small age
so your expectations
of other people
are going to be set
by these things
on a level
right unprecedented
in human history
it's not like just
oh the girls
who watch looked at vogue
and they're like
oh my boobs
aren't big enough
or I don't have blonde hair
or whatever it is
like you know
they're so you know
body you know
sort of dysmorphic
dysmorphic syndromes
all this stuff
that came about
because of just
magazines
or what have you
this is on a level
that is just next-gen
related psychopathy
right you know
so right absolutely
because your version of reality
is going to be something
that's like
in theory better
and more tuned to you
than the version of reality
that you can have
anywhere near you
sense like
because you have this
this thing
that is much more readily available
than an actual relationship
right because it's like you've
it's on your phone
or whatever
you can instantly get it
and this looks like it
without even really
making much of an effort
whereas if you want to go
find somebody
and date somebody
it's like make a
fucking effort
and spend a bunch of money
resources to like
to find that place
and then there's also like
a tendency that people have
that like
they don't want to
they don't want to date down
from their previous experiences
right like if you've
date a super hot chick
it's kind of hard to go to a
like not so hot chick
after the fact
right or same thing
for women as well
right like you're used
to dating a guy
who is like a millionaire
he's got a Lambo
and are you gonna
date a guy who's driving
a Honda Civic?
Kind of a hard jump
right and so like it
people don't usually
make that jump
they don't
they don't like
they don't mind jumping up
up jumping up
not much of a problem
people are
right right
I do that
jumping down
they're a little bit
losing to do so
so if your first
kind of like
romantic experiences
with some sort of
AI of some kind
who's obviously gorgeous
with gigantic fucking pits
and you know
whatever whatever whatever
it's gonna be like
well this girl I had
she was really hot
fake but still hot as hell
well it's these things
gonna be formed
this is like
these things will be formed
based on analysis
of your personal likes
it's like that
remember that movie
what's it when
Arnold Schwarzenegger
goes to Mars or whatever
and the movie starts out
total recall
they find the girl
that would most fit
his profile
they got him
to create a version of this
and he's like
okay yeah
that's exactly who I like
but they already knew
what kind of woman
he liked based on his
the data they scraped
off of him
and they kind of
created this agent
that kind of messed
with him and all that
that kind of concept
it's like
when you're creating
so all of your collective
experience
every eye
you know every time
you've turned your eye
toward a character
in a movie
or whatever
the thing is going to know
exactly what you like
and it's going to be able to create
like imagine the advertising
money that can be generated
if they're just scraping
like what you like
in terms of like people
and then they like
the models that are wearing
the t-shirt
that you want to buy
are hanging out
with exactly the type of girl
that you like
and so therefore you're like
well I want to be that guy
and so like they're just
mindfucking you
to buy like the t-shirt
or the suit
or whatever
the amount of manipulation
is like unbelievable
with these things
like you could create
and to bring it back
to the Apple Vision Pro
where you have a device
that's looking
at your eyes continuously
and knows what your eyes
are looking at at all times
so if you're interacting
with you know
an AI of some kind
or a person
like an AI
or whatever
and you're not really
paying attention
right it will know
you're not really paying attention
and those are you're not
really interested
in this particular topic
of whatever you're discussing
at a particular moment
and you don't even have
to have a malicious reason
for creating this
by the way Chad like imagine
think like to make this thing
work really well
as a personal assistant
or a personal anything
it's got to know you well
so therefore like that data
has to be collected
otherwise you're not going
to get to the apex version
of this device
so even if Apple doesn't do that
someone else is going
to build one that does
because that's going to get you
to the apex version of this
like the apex predator
you know AI glasses
or whatever like it's like
so it's almost like a
the analog hack
of your brain
ultimately becomes the objective
it's not to make your life
better necessarily
it's like how do I extract
enough value out of this guy
by showing what he wants to see
and it just becomes
a really really vicious cycle
societally
so I don't know like yeah
I think what will happen
is like the negative effects
will always be downplayed
is like oh nothing will happen
right like but you know
the question you have to ask yourself
is would you put these things
on your kids
until a certain before a certain age
and like another big topic
I kind of like figure
that at some point in time
we're all going to have
our own personal AI assistance
like personal assistance
that are that are AI
and like when I want to
I want to go to dinner
with my wife you know
later in the week right
I won't even talk to my wife
about it I'll just tell my AI
I want to have dinner
with my wife later on the week
and then her AI
and my AI
will start chatting back and forth
figuring out what time
or where our schedules are
you know it's Friday available
or not we're going to have
Chinese or Italian
oh no she hadn't
chat had Italian yesterday
she's probably not going to be
interested in having
Italian tomorrow
so why don't we do the Chinese
instead like in just kind of
Chinese plates on Friday
at eight o'clock
which you haven't tried yet
because but we've got good reviews
like that's I think
that's a natural thing to occur
over the next probably five years
oh yeah where it takes
the group's concerns like
you have these four people
they want to go out to eat
it just kind of comes up
with a place
that probably I want to like
or something yeah
like everybody knows
I'll go out
I'm a vegetarian
so you know I'm not actually vegetarian
but if I was I'm like
we're going to find a place
that has vegetarian options
right and so like the four AIs
of me and my three other friends
are kind of discussing
with each other figuring out
what time
what kind of location
oh Chad lives on this side
of the city
and you know Mike lives
on the other side of the city
so we gotta fit you know
some place that's in the middle of this
and that's like I'll have my all out
to your AI
yeah basically yeah
we'll figure it out
my people will talk to your people
but you know it'll just be everybody
has their own independent AI
and the AI knows you extremely well
and knows your likes
your dislikes
you know what you've had for dinner
and what you're allergic to
your thing too is the odds
that you know what
here's the thing like
if you think about arranged marriages
like how that was done
it was like okay you probably
your parents know you
they want they know
what kind of financial things
you want out of a person
you don't kind of education
you want out of a person
so arranged marriages
were a thing in society
because it like kept you know
like you know you created
kind of like a quasi-cast system
and that's how that worked
like you weren't
you're unlikely
if you're you know you know
you're a millionaire
arranged marriage system
was this knowledge that like
different parents probably
have some idea of like
what's good for their families
and whatever
and then they create these things
but imagine your AI
you know talking to you know
all sorts of AIs
and is able to you know
it is basically able to like
sort out who you should marry
and if you trust this thing
explicitly over the years right
because you've known this AI
since you're a kid
odds are that you're gonna be like
that was like recommended by your AI
then you would have even your parents
or even your busy sisters probably
and what if that AI
you know reads all of your text messages
with all the girlfriends
you've ever had right
and it notices a pattern about you
like oh you know Chad is narcissistic
or Chad is selfish
or Chad is you know non-empathetic
or something like that
like not just the good things
that Chad's a kind person
or whatever the fuck it is
but you don't find the person
who can tolerate your shit
yeah it's like oh you know
Jane is a good person
but she needs somebody
who's very empathetic
and that's just not Chad right
so that's not a good match right there
right and they will just find somebody
who doesn't need somebody
who is empathetic
because they're independent
they don't need somebody
who's empathetic
somebody else
and so like you can you can match
more deeply
than just like oh I look for somebody
who who likes sushi right
which is because eventually
the amount of data
that be scraped
in terms of like how many say
you know successful marriages
whatever happened
as a result of this technique
will accrue
and like you know will be shared
between the various AIs
and you know you just simply connect
you plug your thing
into that system
or pay a fee or whatever
and now you have access
to the sort of like
the global knowledge of you know
who you're probably going to be
compatible with
and your AI doesn't even
even need to learn that
like that part
that the sociology
the psychology
all the data
it can learn
just by sort of reading
the little book or whatever
and then it can you apply that
to sort of like figure you out
and etc etc
so it doesn't have to relearn it
from scratch
so once the systems
understand humans the first time
the reality is
they're just going to keep using
the same you know
they're going to keep using
that same data
to do this over and over again
and it scales really well
imagine a hypothetical scenario
where this technology
comes out you know tomorrow
right and all of a sudden
you can everybody has their own AI
that can join this kind of
large AI conversation
and find you know matches
or whatever
find your perfect match
or whatever the hell you want to call it
and like how many people
would break up their marriage
or break up their relationship
because the AI just found somebody better
the AI just found
that gets interesting
yeah there's a TV series
or something about that
yeah there was a show on
maybe Amazon Prime or Netflix
about exactly this
I forget the name of the damn thing
but it was like
what the premise was
that they created
a gigantic dating thing
and what it was doing was
it posited some like hypotheticals
like what would happen if yeah
exactly what you just described
happened like
your soulmate is actually
that person over there
but not the person you're married with
you can actually
you know go meet them now
because you know like oh my god
because here's the thing
like Chad it's like
it's like the apple in the garden of Eden
right it's like
once you've been
given this temptation
your mind
once you know that individual exists
want to make friends
they want to you know love one another
so like that's a native instinct
you can't you can't get it out of your head
at that point
yeah just imagine
even if it wasn't like a
like a opposite sex thing
imagine it's just a friend
like you know you maybe
there's a friend you didn't have in life
and you're like hey
this type of person
would really jive with me
and hobbies and whatever else
and the thing found an individual
that is you might spend a lot of time with
and now you can connect with that person
much much more straightforward
than you used to
and maybe the reason why
your your your relationship
with your spouse works well
is because you spend most of your time
doing stuff with your spouse
and doing stuff with your family
and now you have this hobby over here
doing who the fuck knows what
and you're building airplanes
with your friend or something
and as a result
that's kind of like affects your
the rest of your family life
because now you have like
because here's the thing like
people that we meet
can dramatically change who we are
as and how we live our lives
and that may be not compatible
that new life might not be compatible
with the life you once had
and that's always a risk
that you take
at the time you change your life
meaningfully like or you know
it's why moving is so stressful right
like it's why a lot of people
get divorced during like moves
it's one of the arguments
why people shouldn't get married
when they're young
because they're not really themselves yet
and they haven't really fully matured
as a person
they haven't really fully became themselves
and so sometimes you you know
marry somebody you marry
your high school sweetheart
and then you know
10 years later
they're just a completely different person
and that can affect you know
the results of that marriage
when you think about like
like 54 percent of marriages
are end up in divorce
and a lot of those marriages
that stay together
probably shouldn't
because they're staying together
because of kids
I saw some number in Spain
by the way
it was like 80 to 90 percent
I'm like what the fuck
why are you even
like what is going on over there
I mean it makes sense
because like there are people
who stay together for their kids
there are people who stay together
because it's cheaper
to keep her kind of thing
divorce typically is
and so like even 54 percent
is like it's like a really
like low percentage
relative to like
how many people are actually
and happily married
probably closer what
20 percent
when I guess of
marriages are happily married
and then all of a sudden
you just insert to those people
and say hey
we found your soulmate
we found this person in Kansas City
who matches you with you
on every regard
is the kind of blood
you like blonde hair
you like somebody
who's supportive
you like somebody
who's a little bit funny
or whatever
and this is that person
and you're the perfect person
like honestly
like probably 80
90 percent of divorces
would just end within a year
and here's the thing
like if you remember
like in this world
where like everyone
has their little AI friend
remember you have
like this friend
you can take with you
who is not your spouse
or whoever
and now you
you know so you're not as
making as big of a life break
because you're not near
you may not be as codependent
if you have these AI agents
be your friends
because now you your time
every moment of every day
that you're not spending
with someone else
you're spending
with some other reality
and at that point
like the ability to break
from one reality
to the other
when you have like this anchor
that goes with you
is much much easier
at that point right
think about like loneliness
if like yeah you like
part of the reason why
human beings maintain
good relationships with each other
is because like well
you don't wreck your relationships
because like well
you might not find another one
like that
or you might get worse
or whatever like
but there's no guarantee
whereas when you have like
this guaranteed friend
floating around
or maybe you get to a point
where it's like
because kids are growing up
with these things
from the beginning
maybe there isn't such a thing
as marriage at some point
maybe that just disappears
as an idea
I would actually suspect
that if you grew up in a world
where it's common and natural
to have an AI friend
whatever AI personal system
whatever the hell you want to call it
that you're probably
going to have a more closer
and more intimate relationship
with that thing
than you are with your wife
or you're out with your best
like human friend
and the reason why
that it's just because
with your AI friend
you don't have to worry
about judgment
you don't have to worry about
telling them something
that you're just self-conscious about
and you can just like fully
be yourself
without any concern
about being judged
it's the same
where you want people
to love dogs so much
right you love dogs
your dog will still be excited
every time you come home at night
do you know what I mean?
And people don't have that
and so like imagine a world
where you have a dog
that it's not now
it's actually something
you can talk to
and actually have a relationship
with the natural result of that
in my opinion
is that people are going to
become more attached
to their AI friends
than they are
they're human friends
which is going to create
even more separation
and division in our society
Have you seen this stuff
where people are like
they're looking at using LLMs
to translate dogs
and other animals
into sort of like quasi-human speak
and then the other way around too
that could get really interesting
I doubt they can create enough content
or I doubt they can record
enough content
to make it viable to be honest
because the amount of data
that we put into LLMs
to make it usable
and you know functional
is fucking astronomically large
and we can do that
only because we just record
our speech like fucking crazy
on Twitter and Reddit
and you know articles and movies
and there's just
there's a fuck ton of data
being created all the time
but to record a dog
dog bark to record a whale
you know making the whale sounds
or whatever else
it's just
Unless those languages
unless those languages
are a lot less complex than we think
possibly which is a possibility
yeah that's possible
it's hard to tell
with those things sometimes
yeah absolutely hard to tell
like for example
like one of these examples
of like you know
I don't know if you saw this work
where you basically do an MRI scan
of it's basically an fMRI scan
a functional MRI scan of the brain
and you're able to see like
okay so you can basically use
it's basically a centagram
if it's like a bunch of dots
essentially scatter plot
as it were of your brain
of the activity within the brain
and from that scatter plot
they're able to use diffusion models
and actually get you a picture
of like a giraffe or whatever
it's almost like taking encrypted thing
that's encrypted on your court
you know your occipital cortex
of your brain
and you know of course
your occipital cortex
it's like you know
just a big giant projector screen
to some extent
but like it would be thought
that the neurons and everything
whatever they're doing
there's pretty complicated
but turns out
when you use a diffusion model
and you you know use the the centagram
you can actually convert that
to the picture of a giraffe
or whatever that person was looking at
as a photograph at that time
which is insane
so in other words like
the brain is not as complicated
as we think in some ways
and it's in some ways
as simple as a pinhole camera
as far as the vision is concerned
and how it projects
the back of the brain
so that's what I'm saying
like some of the things
we think are really complex
turn out to be a lot simpler
than we imagine
and therefore these weird animal things
could actually materialize
in fact my son just got a position
at he's going to be after college
whenever he's he may be going to
go work at Neuralink actually
which is interesting
so in in California
or Austin I'm not sure
where he's finally going
but we'll see
but the point is like
some of those things
that they're doing
and looking at neural interfaces
pretty fascinating stuff
and and some of these things
like hacking the mind
or hacking human beings
is something that AI
is going to do really well
compared to what we can do
without those tools
pretty pretty interesting stuff
but like what if we use that
what's that usually
I said what if you use that technology
to record dreams
yeah maybe
there's an interesting thing
someone else did
and that was
they're looking at the E
the surface EEG of your brain
which is just basically
putting electrodes on your head
and you know you've seen this
it's we diagnose seizures
and things with it
and they use that as a way to
like you say words in your head
like hello Chad
you know I'm going to the park
and you can just think those thoughts
and they can get it off your EEG
and use an LLM
or a diffusion model
I'm sorry
to translate that shit into voice
it's just weird
that that would be possible
by just the surface EEG electricity
going around your surface
that's nuts
that that makes a really dystopian world
by the way
because now it's like wait
are you gonna be interrogated
with this thing
like there's entire like
amendments to the Constitution
I can think of a half dozen
that need to be added
pretty soon
as a result of the kind of
the nature of like
how this is going to affect us
because you before it was like
what was in your head
was yours right
you know like the fifth
you know I take the
I plead the fifth or whatever
but you know like your phone
became your your phone
or whatever your devices
became your kind of
like peripheral brain
and like you know
someone gonna be able to
subpoena your AI
you know like to like all these
so all these
I think that's a good point
yeah the AI knows
basically fucking everything right
Chad still those gold bars
or not like you know
who was Chad talking to
on Monday the 17th
at 7 23 pm
or whatever
yeah does the thing
have to feel compelled
to answer you
and if not like
well it could be like
so in American law
is not is illegally protected
from taking from taking
going to court
and speaking against you
right like your if your spouse
is called to the stand
of a court case
they can they can choose
not to do it
and it's like the only case
where you can choose
not to do it
I think it's actually
the reason why
some people get married
in some cases
I think that lady
who did that fake
medical device
you know I'm talking about
that was like
she like married her partner
or whatever
or her co-founder
so they can't testify
against each other
so they can't testify
against each other
that's funny
but like maybe
maybe your personal AI
will be the same thing
right like it can't testify
against you
it's prohibitive
in the context of law
to use your personal AI
for that purpose
you have to imagine
that a bunch of laws
have to be like created
because initially
people are going to be like
oh you can't turn off my AI
because like I've lived
with this my entire life
it can't be owned by Apple
and shut off by Apple
because like that's like
tearing my soul away
it's like killing
one of my children
so it'll come a point
where it's like
you will have to have
digital rights
over your AI assistant
the data involved with it
and everything else
and right now
that's not the case
if you have a bunch of photos
cloud or whatever
the little disclaimer
you sign or whatever
the little terms of conditions
usually implies
that they can shut it off
whenever they want
for any reason
and they're not guaranteed
to have to keep
your pictures alive
for future generations
or whatever
and with this thing
it's interesting
because like
initially it'll be like
wait I want to own this thing
but eventually
they become either semi-sentient
or sufficiently like
indistinguishable from sentient
that then they're gonna
want their rights
and then initially
you're gonna like
the first amendment will be okay
well we're gonna
these are gonna be your
digital slaves
because they're they're yours
you are the one
that created them
it's your data
it's your persona
that's built into this
and then later
it's gonna be like
but you can't have that either
because now this is its own entity
so if it's its own entity
it can be subpoenaed
or whatever
because you could collude
with it to do all sorts of crimes
which people will do obviously
because that's
so then like
it just winds up
being the snowball
of stupid shit
that we have to deal with
that's all coming
very quickly
it's pretty interesting
yeah I think I actually
read an article
not too long ago
I think like a month or two ago
where this Japanese guy
married some sort of AI
or a hologram
a Kimber what it was
and they were married
for like seven years
or something like this
and then the company
just like went under
or whatever
and the guy lost his wife
it's like if you put your wife
and cry or some shit
and then the company
goes out of business
my wife is melting
I got wonder if like you can
you can claim
that my AI
is my emotional support
like people can walk around
the emotional support dogs
or whatever
right sometimes
like into restaurants
and they'd like
they can do things
that other people can't
because the dog
is an emotional support dog
what is the scenario
in which AI
is your emotional support AI
and it's required
to be with you at all times
and can't be taken away from you
Facebook glasses or whatever
and it'll be like
oh I'm not very good
with emotional cues
or I don't know
how to read people's faces
or whatever problem
you know because I'm autistic
and so therefore like
this thing will say to you
that you might understand
oh by the way
this person seems upset
based on their eye movement
and you're like okay
but then that would turn out
to be something
that will be used
for therapeutic purposes
but you know how that goes
eventually everyone's using it
on everybody
and like you know
it's like you know
does that break down
the sense of trust
between people at some point
probably because like well
or does it make everyone
better to each other
I'm not sure which one
you can take that same technology
and you're using it
kind of the autistic sense
where somebody has a hard time
reading reading face
or expressions
but like imagine you went on a date
with some girl or whatever
and you had glasses on right
and the glasses are helping you
to understand how the date is going
like that joke you just told
is not landing very well
I should probably apologize
for that joke
or like something like that
where it's just like
you get like dating advice
in live time
while you're on the date
or while you're in a meeting
you know with your boss
but imagine the culture
around that though
imagine like what that culture
looks like
she has something like this
you have something like this
yeah like does there then become
like a techno backlash
because everyone feels
like no one's genuine
or does everyone prefer
the version of people
that is manipulated by the glasses
right so like
if you don't have the glasses
and you're just not sufficiently
cool enough as a result
that's like a negative
not a positive
that'd be weird
it'd be fascinating
is all shit
and I'm going to guarantee you
it's coming
it makes a lot of sense to happen
but just think about like
the culture shift
we're about to see
it's like I just can't imagine
like the world we live in
stays the same at all
like family structure
brothers and sisters structure
you know marriage structure
the whole nine yards
turns into this weird like
discombobulated version
of human race
and I think some of these movies
and things like
if you like
the metaverse
slash AI movies
you combine them all together
and you realize
all of them
usually cover
like one small theme
of like the dystopia
slash utopia that creates
but none of them
actually wrap it all
into one gigantic bundle
because it's so hard
to tell that story
that like
that world would be
so strange
that you can't even make
a half decent looking movie
that a person today
could actually follow
because it's so strange
children, society, politicians
what people want
their materialism
I can see
it feels to me
like everything changes
including like even things
that we think about
like in crypto and stuff
like which is like
what is money
and like what is the value of it
what is the point of it
and all that
like the entire like
conceptual materialism
of the world
the way our brain
looks at it to me
I liken it to like
sort of like
the way I joke about this
is the last apple
in the in the garden
of Eden kind of thing
like it's like the last group
that we're not supposed
to fuck with
and here we are going
oh yeah I'm gonna
I'm gonna take a bite
out of that
tastes really good
we're gonna put these
Applevision glasses
on and away we go
yeah I like it's
it's so hard to know
things are gonna be so different
even within five years
it'd be almost
like the world's
gonna be unrecognizable
in five years
maybe ten
like you just won't even
you wouldn't be like
if you just teleport
in ten years
into the future just now
there'd be so much about it
that you just
be completely confused by
and just like
thrown back by
whether it be
Applevision pro
you know fucking
girlfriends
or that fuck's going on
in ten years
like it's just gonna be
so radically different
than everything we have today
that it's gonna be
completely unrecognizable
yeah it's almost not
the physical reality
that maybe
but but also like
you know we spent a lot of money
on like real estate
in America for example
a lot of space
like for commercial real estate
for shopping
for houses
these things create such
like like things like
Applevision creates
such gigantic spaces
on your head
that to me it seems like
there comes a point
where it's like
do you really have to go
spend a bunch of money
to go to vacation in Paris
or is it so reasonably close
that like you can walk around
and or whatever
and check out
most of what you care about
and you don't have to physically
so that cuts down
on some of the tourism
and then the spaces
in your house
do you really need
that size square footage bedroom
when in fact like
you don't have any actual
shit in your room
and everything you do
is inside your head
in this thing
maybe you don't need huge houses
and they get smaller
and smaller and whatever
yeah I just saw this thing
on that Disney
just came out with
it's like a new floor
that you can stand on
and you can walk on this floor
and it'll keep you stationary
within the floor
but like you can you know
walk forward
walk backwards
you can even put just like
boxes on this floor
and it'll just move the box around
it's got like a bunch of little
like roller motors
or something right
it's I don't know
like almost like a treadmill
it's kind of like a treadmill
but I don't think
it's actually a treadmill
like I don't think
that there's rollers
or anything
but it's some sort
of new technology
but conceptually
it's the idea
that like once you have
that little floor
it's that that's maybe
six foot in diameter
let's call it
six foot diameter
and you just you know
have one of them
and you put your
Applevision Pro on
and now you're like
walking around Paris
like going for a two mile
walk around Paris
and you maybe even
create inclines
and declines in the in the floor
so you like move uphill
or downhill
and then to your point
like what is
if you can go to Paris
and walk around for an hour
and have an experience
then like
why are you likely to spend
you know six thousand dollars
and get a hotel
and you know
and do all that stuff
I mean I would still
do it personally
because I'm like
I'm not sure
I learned myself
I've been around the world
many a times
and so I still want to go
because you you learn a lot more
realistically
like a very few people
on the planet
really do a lot of
expenses traveling
like right very
it's like what
it's like a
like if you look at
the people that
really travel
a lot on airplanes
that number has to be like
less than 10 percent
do a lot of travel
yeah I think like
28 percent
of Americans
even own a passport
let alone
have traveled
for Europeans
they get they
do all the passports
and they all travel
it's good it's all
smaller and closer together
and that's kind of
all part of the same union
but like for us Americans
like living
living vicariously
through this thing
it's like
wait do I buy a more
expensive car
or I need to set aside
money to buy this
apple vision thing
because like
you know I can go
to all these places
with it or whatever
like you can imagine
that's the more like
refine these things
get like people
are going to make
that choice
yeah maybe they make
it now with TV
like you know
oh you can go on your
thing and watch the
travel channel
and see the pyramids
and all this
in fact you can see
a lot of these things
with a lot more detail
than if you actually
because you
they do the every rent
the best shots
the best camera angles
the best like scenery
right it's never
it's never as good
in real life
as it is on TV
to some extent
because like
they give you
that perfect angle
and the narration
and the whole nine yards
right right
you don't have crowds
the way you have like
you know when you actually
travel that kind of stuff
but like where the value
of travel in my opinion
at least from my experience
is not so much like
seeing some monuments
or whatever it is
but it's mostly
around the food
mostly around the culture
mostly around
and meeting people
and engaging in
you know social activities
with random people
that you just meet
in your travels
for one form or another
and so you don't
it's hard to recreate that
within the context
of an apple vision pro
I would say
yeah you you you learn some
you change as you travel
and you bring back
some of those changes
right the stuff
in the culture
and the experience
it rubs off
you bring it home
to the rest of your life
yeah yeah
I would I've spent years
traveling
and I would say
that the time
that I spent abroad
has kind of enlightened
I find to be very helpful
it was weird
I went to
I went to France
for the first time
over the summer
and I spent a few weeks
just going all around the country
just you know
driving and trains
or whatever
and after eating the food there
and kind of
enjoying that
for a few weeks
I came back to the US
fuck the food here
is terrible
compared comparatively
like oh yeah
even the junk food vendors
are much better
like the street vendors
and the like subway station
the train station food
is better than like
the average stuff
you get on most places
around here
I'm like wow
for a while
what happened was
I started losing weight
because I didn't feel like
going out
I didn't feel like
going out to eat anywhere
because nothing felt
like worthy enough to bother
there's a weird thing
like for almost two months
I felt this way
into a snub
it really does
it kind of has to
because like
I've been in Japan a few times
and I love it there
and you can get
really good sushi
for really cheap
and it's just fantastic
and it's just so good
but then you come back
to the States
and just like
all right
it's not as good
like same thing
with like Thai food
patsy you
and that kind of stuff
for Germany
pretzels good
they're so
fucking good
and you just cannot find
that anywhere
the United States
just relatively speaking
it's just dog shit
and if you've never
had a really
good German pretzel
then the American pretzel
is pretty good
but as soon as you
for bread in Europe
is just generally better
on average
a lot better
even McDonald's
is really good
yeah exactly
it's kind of
it's comical
that like
one of the most
iconic American restaurants
in the world
it's kind of dog shit
in America
but it's actually
really quite good
in you know
in France
or whatnot
funny side thing is like
you know how
there was this like
trend towards
fake meat
for a little while
Beyond Meat
and some of these
that came out
trying to like
do away with
let's do away
with all these cows
and things
save the planet
or whatever
and create a more
sustainable future
blah blah blah
like in Europe
and France
specifically
some sort of legislation
and they banned
artificial meat
because they
didn't really
they did not
want to dramatically
the sort of like
culinary traditions
that make France
because like France
for a lot of stupid
but like one of the things
that's good
there is the food
and you don't want
to mess with that
because like
if you destroy
that culture
ultimately
what you do is like
you damage
the tourism
and all those industries
around it
so they wanted to make sure
that that
that heritage
would maintain somehow
but I think
the point
of all the
beyond meat
and 3d printed
and lab grown
and whatever else
is to be able
to mass produce food
much more cheaply
and doing it
irrespective
to quality of air
quality of soil
like this
kind of thing
and so to be able
to mass produce food
feed the hungry
no I can imagine
that stuff's
gonna get really good
like the physics
and the chemistry
doesn't lie
like we you know
our food is basically
just visiting
some chemistries
it's like
you can ultimately
make these things
taste great
and then culturally
people won't care
at some point
but at least
for the time being
France sort of banned it
because they didn't want to
I guess mess
with their
their existing culture
I'm gonna call
right now at some point
they're gonna flip on that
because they're gonna flip
I thought the same thing
I'm like this seems
transient to me
if it gets big enough
and that that like
completely flips this
then yeah eventually
they'll have to buckle
usually tech
tech usually makes
like tech usually
ultimately makes
lawmakers buckle
because like
when the tech
becomes inevitable
or just unstoppable
like you just have to
learn to live with it
at that point
there's not really
it's sort of like
what happened to like
say for example
you know Bitcoin
now we have an ETF
right like
before it was just
scammers and criminals
now there's ETFs
because like
there's no way
to block the tech
ultimately
so what are you gonna do
you're just gonna look
in the meat example
I would say
that it's inevitable
in my opinion
that that meat
becomes significantly cheaper
than you know
cow like actually
right and then
then it becomes inevitable
yeah because
and then the production
of cow meat goes down
which means the cost of buying
you know per pound
of cow meat
will probably go up
right and so
it becomes like
and then it becomes like
well you know
you generally eat
you know artificial meat
but you know
maybe on unlike your
anniversary with your wife
or whatever
you know or special occasions
you will get some
like real cow meat
and that'll be like a street
that'll be like a treat
you know it'll be very expensive
but it'll be like
you know the kind of ultimate
experience in some
yeah this is like
this is like
Jevon's paradox
like they talk about
this with oil and stuff
you know how they
they're like
oh we should make
cars more efficient
that way we're putting
less chemicals
it doesn't decrease it
so it's like
yeah the the cheaper
and more efficient it is
the the adoption
becomes much quicker
and then the alternative
which would be the real meat
becomes crazy expensive
and some sort of weird
luxury item
and then eventually
like you can't build
they do it a scale anymore
so like if you go
to certain restaurants
most restaurants in the world
you won't find it
what ends up happening
is the next
the culture change
the culture change
isn't that like
you don't even expect
to find real meat anywhere
because throughout your life
you've eaten
so little bit
that you don't care
and then eventually
just whips
so it's kind of
right just time
time sort of
does this thing
right yeah
when I was in Japan
I did I had like
really high end
Kobe beef
and like wagyu beef
like that
that's like super expensive
you know meat
and it was so fucking good
like that meat
you didn't even
you barely even needed
to chew it
you would just like
put it in your mouth
and it would like
practically just melt
in your mouth
almost in a literal sense
it was so fucking good
but it was like
the last time
I had wagyu
was in a burger
in like Beverly Hills
or somewhere
yeah it's really good
like the place
that I went to
when you get that place
comes with a certificate
about the authenticity
like that's how
crazy it was
and it was like
it was a pricey meal
I think that meal
I got from my wife
and I was
probably around
like almost a thousand dollar
for that particular thing
just because
this is over in the
quality meat
this is in Japan
this is in Kyoto
we need to get in
while we were in Tokyo
wow that's
that's definitely the high
because the most I spent
recently in France
a Michelin star type restaurant
and it was like
the three of us
we spent maybe like
500 bucks
which was like
an eight course meal
so a thousand's
pretty high
for two people
it was crazy expensive
insanely fucking
and it was just like
really fucking good
that meat
with the quality that meat
I've never had anything
that good
and again
ruins you
yeah it's gonna ruin you
ruins your life
yeah it's like
it's like
if you had the possibility
of being like
some kind of
audio file
and you didn't know it
and you listen
to my like
speakers and stuff
I have set up at home
you're basically
fucked forever
because it's never
going to sound
that good again
for you like
yeah exactly
it's like
spoiled pretty much
and you're just
become like
this weird snob
yeah it's like
ignorance is bliss
if you've never
really good
Kobe beef
or wagyu beef
or really good speakers
really good video
ignorance is bliss
you enjoy it
it's like
a little vision
it's like
I have a rule in life
and that is like
only get addicted
to something
you're willing
to pay for forever
whether it's alcohol
whether it's
whatever your
your vice is
whatever your
your hobby is
it's quite possible
you will love
whatever it is that you pick up
and now you're stuck
with buying these things forever
imagine having to upgrade
your apple vision pro
every few years
or whatever
spend another 3500 bucks
on every four
three quarters
I'll probably do it
assuming that I really enjoy
the experience
and everything goes
well whatever
I can totally see myself
you can see
yeah I can see myself
doing it too
but you know
I'm doing it less though
in the sense that like
I could get definitely
an upgrade to my projector
from very cheap
and I could
and I haven't even burned out
the bulb in the one I've had
for the past like five years
I could definitely get
a much better projector
for the exact same price
and I haven't found myself
like wanting to upgrade it
maybe that just means
I'm getting old or something
like it's like
there comes a point
I feel like
you get to a point
with these things
at some level
where it's like
you probably have
diminishing returns
for spending more money
I think like
my iPhone right now
is the iPhone like 12
what are we on like 15
15 or something
it would have been
unheard of
at some point in my life
where I would have been waiting
maybe four generations
for the next version
to come out
that's because
it would be kind of like
plateaued
like generally speaking
Apple devices
it's really the fourth generation
where that's where
it really kind of hits
it's kind of
stride in some sense
and then by the 10th generation
you're kind of making
small incremental changes
there's no
not a lot of space
for innovation
in the same way
that it was
in the earlier days
and so like
I'm sure the same thing
you shouldn't go
and look at the new one
because once you have
an apples to apples comparison
now you're like
oh you know
why am I hanging around
with this shitty thing
and you get this endy
but even that
has subsided
to some extent for me
because I feel like
the experience
on these things
is so good
generally like you know
what are you doing
on this thing
that you need
that level of clarity
or that level of screen
or whatever it is
and certainly the joke
is always that
the camera is better
and better and better
and there's like
six million lenses
on the back
yeah how am I taking
a picture
that I like
when's the last generation
of iPhone
where I was like
oh this picture
is just shitty
and I wish I had a
better camera
right like
when's the last time
you you worry
that you don't have
a good enough camera
on your phone
it's been a long time
like even the 12
I have now
it's amazing pictures
I just don't see myself
needing better ones
one of the interesting things
if you want to compare
the iPhone
to the Apple that you approach
to bring the conversation
back to the Apple
is that the form factor
of the iPhone
has basically been
identically the same
since the first one
right it's the same size
the same shape
it's the same shape
the same display
in terms of like
what the UI looks like
in terms of like
the icons and whatnot
like it really hasn't changed
in terms of the form factor
since the beginning
of iPhone
whereas with Apple Vision Pro
the form factor
will change significantly
over the next 10 years
be always a push
to make it smaller
to make it lighter
to make it you know
easier on the face
easier on the eyes
left obtrusive
and so the form factor
is going to change
of the Apple Vision Pro
over the next 10 years
whereas the iPhone
it never really changed at all
very very little amount
I wonder how far
they can take
the material science
on this thing
because you know
there's some
fundamental like
either laws of physics
or reliability
or durability
or whatever
eventually they come into play
I'm just wondering
how far this goes
be interesting
like 10 years from now
where where is that very
where does that version
look like
and how does it feel
is it going to like
blow you away
like you know
just imagine
if you gave someone
in iPhone 15
back in the days
of the first iPhone
just imagine how
ridiculous
it would be mind bending
it would be even more ridiculous
if you if you gave me
the Apple Vision Pro 15
today right
you just drop into my lap
and I've never used an
I like Apple Vision Pro at all
and all of a sudden
drop version 15 in my lap
that would be
even more ridiculous
than an Apple
iPhone version 15
although just imagine like
just if you think
about the universe
that's been created
with the phone
like you have
all these different
social media applications
you have the Uber concept
you have you know
the bill to buy and sell
just about anything
it's interesting how
the world changed
around the phone
right as much as like
the phone was an interesting thing
but the culture
of the planet
shifted dramatically
to words like
the phone being
the center of the universe
or mobile first or whatever
and just imagine
because like if you think
about 2007
compared to now
even if you were to have
the level of phone
you do now
you wouldn't have had
the hard drive space yet
you wouldn't have had
necessarily like
or the cloud space or whatever
you just think about
how much infrastructure
underlies
this thing you have in your hand
it's fucking insane
so it's like now
that the Apple Vision thing
is coming out
it's almost
the concept is almost like
all of this other shit
had to happen
before this could even emerge
even if you had
the Vision technology
the screens and everything else
like now the difference
is you buy it
you have this gigantic set
of streaming content
available to you already
you have all your pictures
on the cloud already
you have all the music
on the cloud already
and sort of like
this became a conduit now
for a universe
that just simply didn't exist
you know 15 years ago
and therefore like
even if you had built this back then
and you could do
all the same physical technology
you don't have the world
necessary to make it work
do you think that
the Apple Vision system
over the next like
will create an equivalent
cultural shift
and cultural change in society
as the iPhone did
or do you think
it's not comparable
I don't know
like did you see
but there's competing tech too
like there's
so here's the thing
about the human mind
and I find this to be the case
with like
iPhone versus Android
or whatever else
what you have is like
you get used to whatever
interface you like in life
whether it's your desktop
OS your app
your phone OS whatever
and there's
it takes you a lot
to move into something else
and what we're about to see
is we're getting like
the Facebook augmented glasses
you're having this thing
that the Vision Pro
which is more something
that you don't really travel with
and does a is a person likely
so if I have AR glasses
all day long
and that's doing something for me
is it likely
that I'm going to want to see
a different operating system
when I switch to this thing
the answer is likely no
so do we wind up with different
digital shit on our face
depending on the time of day
between our phone
our glasses
our Apple Vision prototype device
or do these coalesce
into some super device
at some point in the future
with the intuition being
that like human beings
don't like changing operating systems
that easily
people want to see
like something recognizable
a play button
they want to see a pause button
they want to see
certain colors
they don't want to see
like everything going nuts
all the time
because you want to be able
like the UI UX
has to be sort of like
when it completely
affects your whole life
it needs to be something cohesive
that you do and everything
and I think that's one where
one place where Apple's
got it right
it's like okay
if you use your Apple
iTunes on your phone
they've made it very similar
to the car
play on your car
they've made it similar
to how it reacts
on your watch or whatever
and that user experience
has to be cohesive
because people just do not
like to learn new things
so I don't know
if like the Vision Pro
becomes compelling enough
that the user experience
defined by that device
ends up becoming like
you start getting used
to using your eyes
and shit to move things
on screen
right so what are they
gonna have to do
they're gonna have to
do that on your phone
eventually
they're gonna have to do it
on your desktop eventually
right because like
the keyboard came to your phone
because this is how you type
information into the thing
the ergonomics of the thing
I wonder if the culture
that is created
from devices like this
end up permeating
the other devices
that not only get created
in the future
from different brands
but also from the same brand
and then we just have
a completely new user
what we expect
of the new user interfaces
and so I think
that's where the culture
shift comes in
not so much
this particular product
but someone said
this actually
that if you look
at every major
big tech revolution
it happened to be like
how we actually
actually how we put
information into the computer
so one of that
was like the keyboard
one was the mouse
and then obviously
screens got better
and better
that's obvious
but like the I.O. part of it
and then of course
the touch screen
was the next big one
and so now
the Apple Vision Pro
becomes like the next interface
that may be able to use
now it's just your natural hand
or the interface
yeah it's your natural
so now it's like
this is just one more
natural thing
and then what happens
is that like okay
something like a mouse
like swiping and stuff
happens on your phone
but it's not exactly the same
something like a keyboard
a physical keyboard
happens on your phone
but it's not exactly the same
and then you're now using a thumb
whereas or you're using like
you know all your hand
you're both hands to type
or maybe you're dictating
the thing
so I wonder what like
user interface things
this creates with your eyeballs
and with your hands
and whatever
or whatever
yeah I mean I think
my kind of hot take
that probably people
will probably disagree with me on
is that in the long term
I think the the phone
and the computer
like the desktop computer
or laptop
is probably going to be going away
and the and the Apple Vision Pro
will be effectively replacing
all of those devices
I don't think people want
to own multiple devices
they own multiple devices today
because they have to
for using for different form factors
for different use cases
forth and so on
yeah I agree with that
I'd rather have less
I rather just
I rather just have my glasses
that I'm wearing right now
that is the Apple Vision Pro
and with the man
I can order food
I can you know code
Thorchain
I can you know watch a movie
all those things
right and I can just do it
maybe I'll have like two versions
of like one that I walk around
glasses on
and one is in the more like blocks
out all the light
and gives me more immersive experience
but like I think in the long term
over the next maybe 10 years
like the phone
and the laptop
and the desktop
are probably just going to be like
going away
and Apple Vision Pro
will be taking it over
you're trying to
you're trying to envision a world
where you know
you're sitting in a couch
you have your neck
kind of supported by this thing
you're wearing this helmet
and you're thinking that
you'll spend more and more time in it
and maybe even do your work
in that space
maybe they'll have like
keyboards and mouses
that you just Bluetooth
to this thing or something
as part of your interface
maybe you have like
an AI assistant
that's chitchatting with you
and you're like
double check my work as I go
or whatever
make sure there's no bugs
in this thing or something
yeah you're just actively working
in this space
at that point
yeah actively working
actively speaking
as I'm coding
I'm talking about what it is
I'm trying to do
and the AI is working with me
to like collaboratively
write the code together
and maybe I'm not even typing
as much as I typically type today
which is obviously a lot
and and yeah
and even that's the
I'm not even worried
about the muscles aspect
or just having this heavy thing
in my head like that's just
that's a natural thing
in 10 years
it'll be super lightweight
and like I don't
I'm curious to know
it'll be good business
for neurosurgeons
at some point
I'm curious to know
what is the weight
of the original iPhone
versus the weight of an iPhone
not the pro
because it's like
twice the size of the original iPhone
I'm curious to know
how much weight
has been removed from the iPhone
over the last 15 years
I've got an iPhone 3
sitting around
let's see if I can find a bomb thing
I'm gonna google it right now
just it's like
I'm not curious
I don't know
where I put these damn things
I have some drawer
with some shit in them
I'm pretty sure
I have it sitting somewhere
I think the oldest one I have
is like a 3 sitting around
or maybe I threw it away
I'm not sure
but they were heavy
and but they were smaller though
than this
so these have gotten bigger
and then bigger screens
so the original iPhone
was 4.8 ounces
in its weight
its initial weight
and what was its screen
chat bt by the way
it makes it so much easier
if I can answer these questions
yeah exactly
a 3.5 inch display
that was right
what is the weight
of the iPhone
uh what's what's the 15
what's like the smaller one
do they call it
not the not the pro
called the
it's just called
the right type of 15
isn't there like another term
no they have like
maxes and pro maxes
but it's basically
just a regular iPhone
plus or something
maybe I don't know
no plus is when you add
more memory
or some shit
like there's
slight differences
but whatever
but they're similar
like what is it
what is the weight difference
uh so look at the
chat bt didn't
kind of give me the answers
I gotta look at the thing
oh the iPhone
sd that's the one I was thinking
iPhone sd
that's like the smallest
you know okay like the cheapest
yeah it's a 4.7 inch display
so you're talking about a display
that's you know what is that
20% larger
how the number is
and then the weight
where's the tech specs
tech specs
size and weight
weight is five ounces
okay so similar
so we went from 4.8 ounces
to five ounces
which is about the same
but having a device that's
you know 20 30% larger
well back then
they didn't make much
in the way of like cases
and shit for those things
now it's like you're where
you're putting a rubber condom
on your phone now
like otherwise
right drop and break it
so it's like
the actual weight
ends up becoming
substantially more than
like i like these little silicone
things and i just kind of
because i can drop
i've dropped my phone
so many times
it's can survive for years
and years
yeah they work quite well
but yeah so but yeah
i don't know about the vision
like i don't know
because now the thing is like
compared to if you were
to build the apple vision
like 10 years ago
a lot has happened
in the materials world
as far as absolutely
you know not only that
there's headphones and whatnot
they have that apple
headphones set
and they've been working
like not only that
but just the industry at large
like materials used in
and by lots of different manufacturers
for say for example headphones
people have been working
on the weight
and the durability
of those materials
for quite some time now
so right apple now
has access to quite a lot
like i suppose
there can be some sort
of carbon nanotube
god knows what
that emerges
that is even better
at some point
but there's got to be some
there's going to be
some theoretical physics realm
where you can't get it
to be a whole lot smaller
i would imagine
like where it has to just
fit your head
it has to do certain things
i don't know about that
there can be like nanites
like very very small
yeah it's like
you have this string
around your head
it's a rubber band
it can be made from spider silk
like artificial spider silk
you know something
like it's extremely lightweight
but strong like steel
some weird yeah
it has like these things
looks really strange
in the future
yeah well i think i'm gonna
i'm gonna head off of this thing
and grab some dinner
and get some food
and call it a night for myself
but thanks for jumping on
and just chat with me
for a couple hours
good combo
yeah hey Camillo
by the way how are you doing?
sorry i just just jumped on
now it was interesting
to hear you about
about the future of this
and the apple
apple visual pro
chat was mentioning that
in the next few years
or maybe in the next two decades
we won't have laptops
and and phones
as we know them
i don't know if you guys
have seen in recent
i think it was in the last three
months or something
two big releases
there's one by this guys
called humane
they they did this pin
the ai pin
that you put on your chest
and i think two weeks ago
there was the rabbit
rabbit r1
which is great
mine going to see what this
this is like the race
to create the next
ai device
and it's not augmented reality
or or similar to vision pro
but it is really interesting
this type of gadgets
maybe apple goes in that direction
in the future
yeah they probably will
i mean to be honest like the
rabbit r1 will be
to me i see this
to be the same as like a pebble
watch if you guys remember
the pebble watch
yeah many years ago
and it's kind of like
it's pushing on a new idea
of a usage of a technology
but it's nothing
it's nothing interesting
about it or proprietary
whatever and so like
it's just a natural thing
for android and ios
to recreate the same thing
as what that's doing
and just do on your iphone
directly with the syri
it's going to happen
even probably within this year
probably like ios 16
will probably have this
this concept built right into it
and i'm sure android
will have to do the same thing
even the like leverage
of ai and or chat gpt
or whatever is behind it
and then you just
displace stuff
on your on the palm of your hand
or you interact with to it
with it with your voice
and it's crazy the results
i i would say that
there is something
i want 10 times more
than i want in apple vision pro
and that is
i want an ai assistant
that can take care
of all my most irritating workflows
like for example
i don't know like
dealing with like a common task
that i have to do
logging into something
getting certain forms
bank cloud things
doing my accounting with that
you know like
pasting all these things
into stupid shit
it's a truly menial labor
sort of shit
and i think we're gonna
like even more
than i want these entertaining things
i want those productivity tools
that dramatically
make that part of my life easier
because that's so
yeah that's that's coming
that's that's probably
Microsoft is the one
that's focusing most on that
on that front you know
they they're delivering
the co-pilot suite
and integrating
all of all of their Microsoft
suite into ai
so eventually you're going to have
that you know
the the assistant
that can do everything
yeah like it memorizes my workflow
i have to log into this bank
i've got to get these statements
i've got to take those statements
i've got to take them over here
send them to this person
this part of the year
got to send this to my accountant
have to do that
that you know
there's a lot of bs tests
that are like the apis
and the the interface
as well the crap that we do
doesn't talk with each other
so that's that's my
christmas wish list
this ties back into what
i was saying earlier
about have everybody
having their personal ai
and how if i want to have a
you know a dinner night
with my my wife
my ai talks to her ai
but it also can be
my ai talks to my bank
my bank's ai right
and and the bank and my ai
just like communicate
and get the forms
and fill them out
and below blood
it's inevitable
it's definitely coming
probably it's probably sooner
than you think
yeah by the way
i don't know seffy
if you've seen crypto.com's app
they already built in
like an ai assistant
inside the app
within the app
so you can ask him
like basic crypto stuff
but it's actually cool
to test it out
because i think this is
the future of apps
you know they'll
every app will have
their own ai assistants inside
nah i say
i would disagree with that
i would disagree with that
because what you want is
you want to have
your own personal ai
that understands you well
and your preferences
and how you are as a person
and then it just connects
to the application
rather than each application
helping to recreate
its own individual
unique ai
which probably will have
that in some sense
of having like a
populated
i think the thing is
wouldn't it be both though
because like the the specificity
of the training model
for that ai
can be much more efficiently
done by that company
like for example
it's like the fact sheet
or the frequently
asked question sheet
of your website
or the search of that website
like they know
what are the most commonly
asked questions
related to their particular product
so they've sort of like
curated that to an extent
to speed that up for you
and then you're right
i could just connect to that
in a sense
yeah it's like the gpd store
that's been released
in in the last weeks
from open ai
i mean it's a personalized
and more deeper understanding
of a specific subject
that you plug in
into chat gpt
but in terms of having an app
and an ai within the app
and a few years ago
there was
and i still it is
it's working inside
the bank of america app
in the u.s
there's erica i think it's called
and you know
if she will answer everything
regarding your account
your balances
your stuff
but it's only within the app
i think we're we're missing
the technological foundation
to be able to allow two ais
to communicate with each other
i don't think we have that quite yet
i think we'll have it eventually
but once we do that
i think i think seppy
will be happy
to never fill out forms again
or whatever the hell he's
i have a sense though
that all the shit
that i've imagined
i'm going to be dead
before all that stuff comes out
which which is sad
like no you're not gonna have something
not dying of anything
at the moment
i'm just saying like
like the you know
my mind goes pretty far
as far as like what i'd
what i'd like to see implemented
but i find that like
over the last 20 years
a lot of the stuff
that i wanted to have implemented
never got done
and a lot of products
that i never thought
i knew i'd want
like an iphone or whatever
got built
so it's really weird
that like
yeah yeah
not always the stuff
that you think is interesting
that end up becoming
like the commercial driver
of like consumer sales
like the fact
that like you can't
like the fact
that the government
just doesn't at this point
just tell you
what your taxes are do
meaning like every receipt
every purchase
for your business
everything goes through
been dramatically
made easier already
and quickbooks
and all these kinds of things
that you have to run a business
are sort of rudimentary still
because all the systems
aren't connected
like when you go to a store
to buy supplies
for your business
that's not connected
your receipts
aren't standardized
and all sorts of shit
that you would have thought
technologically would have happened
makes me sometimes bearish
about the idea
that like all this fancy shit
we say is going to come out
it's actually going to happen
because like I've watched
like we can now put like
six million pictures
on our phone
but I still can't do
the most basic shit
that like you think
you should be able to do
yeah the government
profits from that scenario
so if you when you don't
fill out your taxes correctly
they can you know
apply a fee
there's all sorts of incentives
yeah that are there's a lot of
disincentives to a good system
I think there was like
I think it was Germany
I want to say it was Germany
who they just
I think it was in the late 90s
they just pick a software company
and that software company
created their like
you know tax software
and everybody just uses it
and it's just perfect every time
you don't like
nobody actually does their taxes
at all in that country
or something
or something like this
get the perfect every time
yeah because imagine
imagine like your business
use electricity
and you have an electric company
just imagine
sounds like it's like
high tech
it really isn't
that the format
that that electric company
has to send you their invoice
and the fact that you've paid it
all goes into your accounting package
because everybody has the same
it's like an HDMI cable
for your DVD player or whatever
the fact that everyone's using
the same interface
but the fact that they couldn't
even standardize the interface
for sort of modern
routine finance by now
just tells you how
at some levels
the country's been
extraordinarily incompetent
even though it's not
incentivized to do it
it's not incentivized
right exactly
and it's like
like who makes money
off of doing this
and who's going to create that
but even even the apples
and Microsoft
the world that are on every phone
and app every desktop PC
or whatever
even they didn't solve this problem
which is amazing
these would be really
really simple architectures
to create
right I mean think about it
it's not that different
than Thorchain
it's like you convert from
you want this coin
and you want that coin
and you want to trade it
and like you know
it's just you simply
just have a base
you just have a layer
of information
going from one to the next
and now you're set
right and that layer
is just missing
in the modern financial world
yeah absolutely
Chad was saying something
about you know
the ideal world
is to have like a master AI
that can connect to everything
all of your apps
and do everything
I think they're definite
somebody's definitely
working on that
either Google
or Microsoft
the question is
who is going to be
that entity
that controls all this information
because that's a massive
amount of information
that you're going to handle
a private company
and that's going
it's crazy
if you don't
if you don't put some
watch eyes
on top of that
then it can spin out of control
right then
that that's become the topic
that I know Eric
for he's just spending
a good amount of time
working on of
decentralizing AI
right and what does
that come
wanting to look like
and you know
I think Apple will probably
do a better job of this
than most because
they are more privacy
yeah as a company
likely when Apple
comes up with their LLM
it will run locally
on your device
and be you know encrypted
using the same
kind of encryption
that you're kind of like
your Apple pay
uses on the device itself
so like I think Apple
will probably do
a better job of it
than in terms of
respecting privacy
and that kind of
than most companies
definitely Apple hasn't shown us
yet what they have in store
but they're probably working
on some big big stuff
if you look at Mistral
came out with with
open source
I mean we're talking about
reasonable LLMs
with reasonable amounts of
computational amounts
like very reasonable
amounts of hard drive space
we're talking about like
you know 100 gig or less
or these things
are getting the point
where it's like probably
a terabyte eventually
will get you an amazing
local experience
so it's quite possible
they just built it
into the chip
or something
and make it hardware
not even software
yeah yeah
well you're gonna need
the hardware
to process the request
and that kind of stuff
you need specific
types of CPUs
to do that
but but I think that's
probably the way
we're gonna be going
just hardware
specific like Apple
already makes AI
specific not AI
but AR specific chips
sets in their Macs
and iPhones
that kind of stuff
yeah there's there's AI chips
in your all your phones
and your desktops too
now I'm not sure
I'm just going to be
optimized for this particular case
they're not that useful
as well as you
let's use
playing specific games
but but LLMs will be
specific hardware
in your phone
large action models
will also be there as well
and it'll all be
just local
and performance
but you guys
you know that
I mean the biggest
chip producer
is Nvidia
they have over 80%
of the markets
and they are the ones
that are producing
the AI chips
that everybody's using
from Samsung
the Nvidia is like
they're going to be
the biggest
probably one of the biggest
AI companies
in the next decade
now I mean that's
that's true today
but I don't see that
they're maintaining
market share
10 years into the future
there's just too much
there's too much
money on the table
for for them
to be sitting by themselves
and nobody
really challenging them
and I'm sure
Apple will build
their own
unique Apple
Silicon custom stuff
for themselves
you don't have to be competitors
of the market share
within the next
probably five years
who knows
right now
they're the leaders
and they are
they are yeah
yeah and making
associations
with the biggest companies
with adobe
delivering their
digital twins
factories
I don't know
if you guys
seen this concept
the digital twins
which is crazy
is like building
models of stuff
that happen
in a simulated
or virtual world
you can simulate
what happens
in a city
the traffic
the weather conditions
or you can simulate
what happens
in a future plant
that hasn't been built
it's pretty amazing
what these guys are doing
well with that
I think I'm gonna
call it a night
for myself
you guys can keep on
and keep on chatting
if you guys want to
but have a good night
I'm gonna take off
there you go
good good chat
another good one