Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
Aptos After Dark ep 65
Recorded: July 7, 2025 Duration: 1:29:00Space Recording
Short Summary
Aptos After Dark episode 65 dives into the thriving Aptos ecosystem, showcasing innovative projects, growth trends, and the importance of partnerships in driving DeFi advancements. With discussions on unique yield opportunities and upcoming token launches, the episode highlights the dynamic landscape of Web3.
Full Transcription
Tanya Cushman Reviewer What I want you to do Oh, can I feel the blame? Yeah, yeah, what I got is just a fortune dream of the scatters
You're pulling my hands
And I can't explain
Oh, yeah, what I do
You can't make a math in your own
You can't make a fool You make my dream go true You make my dream go true
You know what I'm doing
You make my dream go true
You make my dream go true
On a night
When the girl was together
And the match you win the dream And I say
why I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm't know my dreams, you know. I don't know my dreams, you know.
I don't know my dreams, you know.
I don't know my dreams, you know.
I don't know my dreams, you know.
I don't know my dreams, you know.
I don't know my dreams, you know.
I don't know my dreams, you know.
I don't know my dreams, you know.
I don't know my dreams, you know.
I don't know my dreams, you know.
I don't know my dreams, you know. I don't know my dreams, you know. Oh, yeah. yeah yo what is up happy monday welcome to aptos after dark sorry about the technical difficulties we
take one week off and i completely forget how to do this shit how we doing atreyu what's up
doing very good uh happy monday so to be here for 65 and yeah, no worries.
Technical difficulties. We're all here getting ready to jump on in with some
awesome people. But if it's your first time here, join us on Aptos After Dark.
Welcome. Welcome. We discuss everything going on on Aptos joined by awesome
people, projects and protocols, where we discuss all the exciting things
happening on Aptos each and every week, hosted hosted by myself atreyu and sneezy if you're enjoying the content throw like a comment
and subscribe across any of the channels like youtube x instagram tick tock etc welcome
excited for episode 65. yo that's what's up as always never financial advice just a bunch of
dope people talking about the dope products projects and things going on in the aptos ecosystem if you are
interested anything we're talking about it's as simple as downloading the petra
wallet creating a wallet and getting involved let's go let's go go you ready
for perps night hi I don't know if I'm ready I'm gonna I
feel like this is gonna be a lot of learning I'm stoked though I'm stoked I
also feel like I don't understand enough and it's gonna be good I'm pumped let's
get into it how about you are you ready I am ready yeah I think because we've got
three projects joining us we we're going to have
CannaLabs, Mirage, and Merkle. I think we run this almost a little bit different than we normally do,
run it as a panel. Oh, okay. I like that. I definitely like that. Right? I know you love
organization. Let's go. Let's do it. Let's start with a round table we'll go mirage canna merkel with introductions
who's behind the accounts yo yo you hear me yes sir how's it going what's good jay sneezy the
real jay sneezy and what's good atreyu thanks for me. It's kind of been a while. I feel like it's been like 20 plus episodes since I've been here.
But yeah, I'm Mason. Mason No Money. Soon to be Mason Money. Co-founder at Mirage. And yeah, I'll be speaking on behalf of Mirage right now.
Let's go. Excited to have you back. Making your triumphant return to aptos after dark first episode since
mainnet is live very exciting and fresh off the back of us hanging out in new york let's go yes
sir all right kanna who do we have up here yeah okay uh hi uh it's easy hi i'd say you uh thanks for having me here once again
uh so i am i'm the co-founder of uh canal labs as you know we are a club-based
books platform on uh of course so yeah it's me
let's go.
Welcome.
Welcome back.
Excited to be chatting, jumping into all the things.
Kana as well.
I think, is this the first time back?
Yeah.
Excited.
Thanks, I'll tell you.
Yeah, excited to be on the podcast.
First time back since it's going live, for sure.
Yeah, since it's going live.
Very, very exciting.
Oh my gosh.
All right.
And then we got Merkle.
Jump on in.
What's up, guys?
Last but not least, this is VP from Merkle.
I'm doing marketing, social, and community at Merkle.
First time on the show, but we know
there are a lot of excellent projects.
Outstanding founder has been joining the show.
We definitely don't want to be left out.
Excited to be here.
Thanks for having us.
It's great to chat and talk with everyone on the show about purpose.
Let's go.
Very excited to finally have Merkle joining us in an after dark.
All it took was me putting Ye in a headlock in New York.
Just kidding.
You get a grab of them.
I was not in New York, but our management team was there.
We heard a lot of good things happening in New York.
Aptos definitely got a lot of attention, a lot of hype,
a lot of exciting out a lot of hype, a lot of exciting alphas going on.
So glad to join you guys and you guys like grab us over there.
No, very excited to have you guys here.
Okay.
I'm not quite sure where to begin a panel show with a bunch of high-end perp stexes um i'm just gonna jump right in here whether
or not this is too in-depth a question to lead off with but we'll keep the same order um i think
it's interesting that you guys are all building different variations of a perp decks on aptos i would love like the usp like the unique selling
point and what you guys are specifically building so we'll lead off with mirage and then we'll go
through the group bet bet so raj is a bit. We're not like a pure perpstex. We're really a liquidity
layer first with perps built on top of it. And that's sort of built around our stablecoin MUSD.
So we kind of see Mirage as like the first place a user should go when they first come to Aptos.
Right now we think like the normal sort of DeFi user goes into like borrow land like echelon um and the
idea is they deposit their native asset like aptos take out a stablecoin loan and then they use that
stablecoin loan to sort of explore the ecosystem that way they're still exposed to aptos which is
like why they're here in the first place they're bullish on it maybe they take that usdc and they
swap it into more apps to leverage up.
They buy FTs.
Maybe they go trade on Merkle Arcana.
But the problem right now with that is like when you borrow stables,
you pay around 9%, I think, is like where it's at on Echelon right now.
And that's even with incentives.
So it's really higher than that.
So like if you do that, you kind of need to outperform 9%
or you're losing money.
With Mirage, MUSD functions very similarly to a stablecoin loan. You deposit your collateral.
Instead of borrowing a stablecoin, you mint MUSD, which just like the stablecoin loan needs to be
paid back to unlock the collateral. The big difference though is instead of that high
variable APR you pay, you get a very low fixed rate.
Right now, it's at 0.5%.
So you can do all the same things with it.
You can swap it, get more apt, explore the rest of the ecosystem.
But you don't need to worry about outperforming that 9%.
And so that sounds good on its own.
That's the core product is that liquidity layer, a super low interest rate, stablecoin loan. But what if like, instead of that small interest rate, you had a negative one,
what if your debt actually paid itself off? And so that's why we built the perps on top of it.
So MUSD is margin on perps and the fees are paid in MUSD. And 70% of those fees go back to users
who minted MUSD. So effectively it turns turns it into a self-repaying loan.
And we want to add more yield vehicles on top of it.
Eventually, options, maybe prediction markets.
And the goal is to make MUSD sort of the highest yielding stablecoin in DeFi, or at least among them.
Right now, it's probably Athena, which at one point was around 20%, but has fallen down basically to the treasury rate
of 45%. So that's sort of our big differentiator. We're a liquidity layer. We built perps on top of
it to add yield to our stablecoin, but we're way more than just a perp dex.
So let's go. Okay. I have a quick follow-up question just about the platform, and you kind of answered it, but I just want to get clarification on it.
So to mint MUSD, you're actually creating a vault, right?
Yeah.
Okay, got you, because I was playing around with the platform trying to figure out how to mint MUSD, And I just couldn't figure out where it was.
That makes sense.
I create the vault, deposit the Aptos,
and then take out the loan in MUSD.
That's very slick.
And then so the vault is where the yield goes.
If we put the yield on the coin itself,
then you wouldn't want to sell it.
You wouldn't want to loop it.
You'd want to hold MUSD.
So the yield goes into the vault, which has your collateral and your debt. It pays down
the debt on the vault. That way you can sell the MUSD and not worry about having to hold it.
Okay. That makes so much sense now. And then to go even deeper the vault itself is an nft so you can actually
swap that between accounts you can trade it you can send people your vaults you know there's a
lot of stuff you can do with that go okay we've had moon in here a couple times talking about
that feature but now that it's live and in front of me, now it actually makes clear sense.
Right.
So we're working on the interface, and we're about to update it, how it shows up in Petra.
But if you meet the vault, you'll see it in your NFTs.
And eventually, once we figure everything out, it'll update live in your Petra, and you'll be able to see your APR and all that.
And we're going to use Shelby probably in the back end eventually as well.
So let's go. I know that's one thing you guys have been huge on
is every time Aptos comes out with a new AIP is it's
okay, how do we work this into Mirage?
Right, right. You know, Moon's all over that, so.
Let's go. All right. Okay, let's go to
Kardec and kanna yeah okay so as i said uh earlier uh we are a cloud
based purpose platform uh so i believe we are the first ones on aftar actually there there are quite
a few in different chains uh but we wanted uh we we wanted it to be the first one. Actually, we have built it on top of the Econia order book. One of our USPs is that in K, the deposits, everything is basically on chain,
which means that first of all, the entire thing is fully transparent.
So if I, as a user, make a trade on KanaPurbs, I will be able to see the entire flow of the
order through KanaPurbs, through the platform on chain actually on the block explorer search
so i believe that is a very big advantage for the users because right at the test net we had a couple
of traders coming in and asking why their specific orders went into liquidation or why did it settle at a specific price point
and not the price point that they asked for except action so all we had to do was point them to the
transaction on chain actually where they would be able to see the the entire trade flow in that
transaction and they were satisfied that it was done at the right price
at the point of time actually. So being on chain, being transparent does have its definitely
have its drawbacks as well. But the biggest advantage in my opinion is that it is fully
transparent as such and no doubts or no room for any doubts at all. That is one of the USBs.
The rest of it, I think we are still in a phase of building out multiple features and multiple upgrades.
Right now, what you see over there is only, in my opinion, the basic version.
We are working on certain things which hopefully will give yields back to the deposits actually.
Apart from the users being able to trade, we want them to make yields out of it, out of the deposits that they have made.
So we are working on two aspects, upgrades.
We are also working on upgrades to improve the spreads and the liquidity, which I believe
is the biggest challenge for any PURPS, at least club-based PURPS decks.
The biggest challenge is liquidity and tight spreads.
Everybody tends to compare it with hyperliquid, which has a spread of say one on bitcoin and probably it has i don't know probably
more than 100 btc uh depth actually on its other books so that is difficult to match actually at
this point of let's go
I love it
Bullish on that one chain, everything on chain for sure
With you
I think what really clicked for me
When you talked about like
As if it was an order floor
And like it's in real
Time on chain
Everything's tracked And being able to go and look back's in real time on chain everything's tracked and being able
to go and look back at the time frame and find everything.
Yes, I think that is the biggest advantage that I see on on chain and I believe probably
we are just the second or the third perp specs to be fully on trade most of the perp specs tend
to have their order settlement at least of chain and such actually so from a trader point of view
at that point of time they may find it very difficult to trace their orders basically and
see what has happened to their orders so that that is something that we
wanted to show to the user because most of our co-founders have been uh in the flat 5 industry
for more than a decade and such i have been there for around 24 years now actually
uh so i think that is one of the biggest pain points for a retail trader especially actually
on whether the platform is settling it at the price that they wanted it to actually
and what happens to their product actually uh so i so i think uh by being fully transparent
we are able to solve most of that at this time. Again, we are building out certain
tools as well to make it even more easier for anybody to trace their objects as well.
Absolutely love it. Love it. And I need to be that early with totally entirely on chain aspects
is a feat within itself, as you're mentioning,
and super excited about seeing what's coming up.
It sounds like you're gonna be coming back
onto the space maybe at some point,
or maybe we can talk about it throughout this space.
Who knows, we'll get there.
But with that, Merkle jump on in as you please,
with a little bit about Merkle and the USP
that you're seeing from your perspective.
Sure. So at Merkle, we are a gamified purpose. So there are two parts of the product offering that Merkle offers.
First is the high leverage purpose where users at Merkle, you can trade high leverage, up to 150x even for long tail assets, for all type crypto assets in our platform.
You can go leverage from 3x to 150x any type of assets from layer 1 to infrastructure to meme coin.
User can also trade commodity and FX product in our platform as well.
And we cater our product more user-friendly,
focusing on the UI, UX, and convenience for user.
So any user can start trading with only $2 in Merkle.
We offer more convenience features like Google Login, so you don't need to manage a Web3 wallet. You can just sign up with your Gmail, and then open an account.
And every time you can just log in and out with just your Gmail, making the managing wallet less hassle, a lot easier for users. We also host a bi-weekly trading season
on different teams when traders can compete with other traders
for the juicy rewarding every two weeks.
And I guess our USB, first,'s like UI UX. It's really simple and easy to use for all type of user on Merkle.
It's very mobile friendly. You know, when you try a browser on your phone, it works like smooth and
seamless as you work on your laptop. We're offering like high leverage trading on all types of crypto assets, FX and commodity.
So if you want to get leverage, like amplifying your yield, your trading result,
you can do that on Merkle.
And all types, like future, like Google login, it's making it easier for retail users.
You don't have to be a default expert to trade on Merkle.
Literally, it can be anyone, like mom and pop.
And I guess a little bit of alpha that Merkle is working on,
some of you might see a permissionless.
But for those who is not aware, we
are working on native app for Merkle.
So basically, it's going to be like an app on your phone
where you can trade on the apps.
And we're also going to add other features outside
of trading.
You can earn or stack your token within the app as well.
Because our vision is like, I guess,
the whole DeFi is lagging behind the whole world in
terms of user experience.
When the whole world is on mobile, DeFi, all the publics, all the trading apps, we are
still doing to work better on the web browser.
So I guess going mobile is one of the things that the Merkle team is working on, building
a smooth app that we want it to be like a DeFi
app for AppTorce user where you can trade, you can stack,
you can earn, and do a bunch of things on the app itself.
And that's a little alpha on what
we are working on for those who are joining this space.
Yeah, that's pretty much what we are doing.
what we are doing.
Not going to lie,
I got a chance to see
the app
in App Permissionless in New York
and I went up
frustratedly after I tried to
watch the demo.
I went back frustrated. I'm like, yay, how do I find
this thing on the Apple Store? And he's like, it's not
live yet. I'm like, oh, come on.
What do you think about what do you think about it like your general experience i
know it's still like an ongoing product for us i'm a mobile first user so for me it's huge
I would say I do like 95% of my crypto stuff from my phone.
So I'm very excited for the app.
This gets me super pumped.
I'm not going to lie.
I agree.
Markle's got a really great UI for their layer of probably improved UI UX in that regard.
So I did not get to see it in a permission list as Sneezy did, but I'm excited nonetheless.
I saw a little bit, I think, through video, but very, very excited.
Very excited.
And just to confirm, is this iOS and Android, or is this an iOS-only app, you're thinking?
Is there additional alpha we can pull out of this? Because I'm pretty excited on the Android side, if that's the case.
We're aiming to go for both. I mean, whoever got the phone, whether it's iOS or Android, you can use it.
And I'm glad you guys like it, you know whether like sneezy like trying it
permissionless or i'll trade you that you you saw in in the video but i guess that you know we we
all like have the same vision that like everything's going to be on mobile um for example you know
like you you might live in new york you might live somewhere else where or you know like you
during the summer time when you travel with your family you cannot you know pull your laptop to
trade any anytime you know like when you saw like an alpha you cannot you know pull your laptop to trade anytime you
know like when you saw like an alpha on twitter or somewhere else you want to you know get into
the position quickly because the alpha might fade away uh at the speed of light uh in in crypto
space so i guess like you know having like a smooth like dedicated mobile app when you can do
trading anytime you want uh as smooth and as seamless as possible.
I think it's a big win for mass adoption, not only for app cost trading,
but also for the whole crypto space.
And also, I think, like the app itself, it's not going to be just trading.
We're going to try to bring all the DeFi functionalities
into the apps.
So we understand trading itself, it can be market-driven.
It can be very cyclical.
So sometimes, the user trade a lot.
Sometimes, they just don't want to trade.
They just like, pop their money somewhere else
through lending or staking or simply holding stable coins
in your wallet and then sending it to somebody else for other use case.
So we think it works better on the apps,
and it's a long way to go.
So yeah, sharing the same vision with you guys.
WILL KAUFMANNANI- Will it be available in the US?
JOHN MUELLER KUOI- I mean, for the first version,
I don't think so. There are a lot of things that we need to work on
It's just because of the regulation in itself. Yeah
So I guess like not for the US
As of now, but hopefully we can clear that out
Yeah, hopefully soon
They'll clear that up. That's cool. Hopefully soon. Hopefully soon. My gosh, I'm with you.
Too many traveling, too many traveling to Canada as of recently.
That's, that's super exciting though. Uh, on the,
the mobile builds V1 coming out relatively soon. Um,
yeah. Bullish for sure.
Alright, I had last question.
Do you want the next one to try you?
Or I got another one queued up.
Hello?
Sneezy? Did I get cut off here?
Am I here?
I can hear you. Can you hear me?
I can hear you.
Oh, you can hear me? Okay. Amazing.
Okay. Okay. Okay.
Well, with everything that you guys have mentioned,
what's being built, unique service at USP.
You also shared just about, almost everyone I think shared a little bit about what's exciting
and coming up for some of your projects,
but maybe that's something we can talk about a little bit.
Some of you have had some recent launches
that are relatively huge.
How does it feel from going into
some of those major upcoming deployments?
And then, you know, for Merkle and your team,
you have some really exciting things coming up as well
with iOS or the mobile app.
So maybe we can talk a little bit about that process
leading up, the process after,
and where you're seeing today and where it's going.
I'm sorry, I think Mason wanted to say something.
You can go ahead.
Yeah, were you asking in order?
Yeah, we can keep it the same order.
Sorry.
Didn't classify that.
But yeah, jump on in, Mason.
No worries.
No worries.
Yeah, so I mean, you know we've been building Mirage for like years at this point.
So yeah, it feels really good to be launched
um in the future we're really looking forward to getting our perps out it's pending an audit right
now um by autosec we already have an audit but i think perps is super complex and we need to make
sure we do it right so once that audit gets finished we're ready to pull the trigger on perps
hopefully late august and then um alongside perps I think we're going to launch like kind of interesting product,
leverage tokens. It just makes perps a little bit easier for like the non-perp user, like just easy.
And basically the idea is you can set your leverage like, you know, 1, 5x, 10x, Aptos,
and you can just buy that token and, you know, you can do interesting leverage like, you know, 1, 5x, 10x Aptos, and you can just buy that token.
And, you know, you can do interesting things with it. It'll keep constant leverage.
In the back end, we'll be like opening a managed purpose position for you that keeps constant leverage. So just a little easier for like Aptos retail, to be honest, which are like, you know,
maybe not the smartest people um and so yeah
we're super excited about that and then you know down the line like i said we want to add sort of
more yield vehicles to musd whether that's options or prediction markets or you know leverage
prediction markets i think there's a lot of things we can do but we want to focus on like perps
getting perps down really nice also more asset classes on the perps.
Stocks has always been like our dream.
So once we get that stuff done, you know, we basically have infinite things we can do.
And yeah.
I absolutely love it.
First off, also, I take offense to this, Mason.
I was going to say, I resemble that comment. No, I take offense to this amazing. Oh, I was going to say I resemble that comment.
No, I absolutely love that.
Keeping it simple for everyone, I think is always a win, right?
So, I mean, for the expert to the amateur, I think if you get more people to be able to understand what's going on and be able to leverage, it's a win for the ecosystem as a whole.
So that's awesome.
That's what we're talking about.
We just want retail to win. I love goal. We just want retail to win.
I love that goal.
We want retail to win, too.
You literally raised your hand in your own space.
No, I know.
The thing I love about that is
it's not necessarily...
Oh, no. It's easy. We can't hear you.
Really?
I can hear you.
Oh, no.
It's just me then?
Hold on a second.
I'll be back in one sec. Thank you. Hello?
What's up?
Okay, now it looks like Atreyu's talking and I can't hear him.
Anyways, one thing I wanted to say is it's not necessarily that people are uneducated. It's just you can explain it to me a hundred times. I learn by doing.
perps can be scary because you can get wrecked quick if you don't know what you're doing.
So I think it sounds like what you're doing is kind of like an intro into perps,
if I'm not mistaken. So it'll give people the opportunity to interact with it in a slightly safer way.
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it.
You know, a leveraged token, it's a managed position.
You'll stay at constant leverage.
And I don't know, maybe Moon wants to hop in and can describe it a little more in depth.
But it is basically just a simpler, easier way to trade perps.
And yeah, yeah, it's an interesting mechanism,
but that's sort of what we're aiming for with it.
That's very cool.
Looks like we've left because I mentioned him.
Oh, he has to go get the balcava.
I scared him away.
That's right.
Are you back?
Am I back for you?
You're back for me.
I'm back, I hope.
I don't know.
You're golden.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Okay.
Okay, so cool. I was going to ask one follow-up question that's amazing before,
I guess we passed the mic here, but you guys were,
you guys were building for a minute, right?
So I guess,
do you want to share like a one minute or less or whatever you feel comfortable
with about like that lead up time, like that excitement afterwards,
how, how it all panned out for you and the team? Like, yeah, I mean,
like it's a pretty, it's a massive milestone. So that you and the team like yeah i mean like it's a pretty it's
a massive milestone so that you and the team were building for as you mentioned for a little bit so
curious about a little bit of that if you're open to sharing just about that journey and how
how came up and now that you're here yeah for sure for sure so like mirage really started
as like almost a side project um and then we started taking it more seriously and then we
started taking it super seriously and um we had it sort of ready to launch for a while
but uh in short we really just wanted to raise um we believed that we could raise and everyone
was pressuring us to launch but we we felt like we lost a little leverage if we launched prior
to raising and we got it done.
And it feels really good.
We got some breathing room.
We have some runway.
And now we have the space to really build on what we started.
So there was so much pressure along the way, people wanting us to launch.
And I'm just glad that me and Moon stayed really strong and stayed principled and got our raise finish.
And I think the product's going to be like 10 times better because of that.
Dude, that's awesome.
I mean, it makes a ton of sense, too, on the pressure, but also the reward that you now both the entire team kind of reaps because of that kind of like resilience there.
So kudos to you and the team.
And honestly, raising is not an easy feat.
And I don't think a lot of people understand
just how challenging that really is.
It's really not.
And a lot of it for us, it was a timing thing.
Like our pitch didn't change much.
Our product didn't change much.
It was a timing thing.
And, you know, movement had a lot of hype.
People were going crazy about the ecosystem.
It's interesting how that ended up.
But we sort of just caught the timing, right?
And we were kind of, we weren't trying to time it necessarily, but we came at a good time.
And, you know, if we tried to raise again, like right now, it probably wouldn't happen.
But a lot of investor eyes from the move ecosystem there, we took advantage of it.
And I'm glad we did.
Me and Moon, you know, basically spent everything. We were like down to our last dollars. from the move ecosystem there we took advantage of it and and i'm glad we did me and moon you
know basically spent everything we were like down to our last dollars uh when that first check came
in so uh it was really nice that's an amazing amazing thing amazing feeling about too yeah so
huge congrats to you guys on that one and uh i'm sure you're feeling the excitement with
everything that you're mentioning and what's coming up next uh so let's go for sure let's go all right kartik if you want to jump on
in uh and share a little bit about coming off the mainnet everything you were feeling team hype etc
how it's going now afterwards anything you want to mention that's on the near horizon that you want to mention please jump on in
so yeah so we have also been uh building for around 20 months now actually on this product
to be very honest we wanted to finish off the at least the first version of the product in around six to eight months. But for multiple reasons, it took us close to two years.
First of all, since we built it on the Econia order book, which wasn't essentially built
for post trading, it was more built for spot trading actually.
So we had to make a lot of customizations.
And then we had to rework on a lot of our features
because once we built a few features,
we took it to some of the traders that we know actually
for our feedback.
And they gave us a totally different feedback.
And we had to go back and change the entire architecture
of the first platform and I had to rework the whole thing actually.
So after 20 months we finally managed to, though it was a long period of testnet,
testnet itself I think we ran it for around 8 months actually, 7 to 8 months actually.
We had spent a lot more than what we had expected actually.
As I said we had expected it to be generating revenue within six to eight months time.
But 20 months is a long time without any revenue assets actually.
So we spent a lot more than we had expected it to.
So when we finally did manage, I would thankfully what I would say is that we stuck to our goals as such.
We didn't release it in a harried manner or release it because others were putting us under a lot of pressure to release it actually.
We took our time. time we wanted to again our from our experience in the track industry we
understood that for the user the funds are very very important actually even if
they lost half a dollar they would be very upset actually and the platform
will lose its entire reputation as such actually we wanted to ensure that
everything from the robustness of the platform to the security
of the platform was as good as possible, even though it took a lot of time, as I said, we
were running testnet for seven to eight months because we wanted to make sure that everything
was perfect.
And thankfully, when we finally did launch last month, it was more a release rather than a joy as such, actually, that finally we were able to achieve what that's been robust no major bugs have
been reported thankfully at least so far tell us I have not lost any money on the last money
aiding but because of any picture anything of that sort actually so so far it has been going according to plan. We didn't learn our own set of lessons as well, actually,
on how the traders are reacting to the platform,
how the retail traders are reacting,
how the market makers, the HFTs and the bots
and the high-speed traders are reacting to the platform.
We are able to get a lot of feedback from them.
So from that, a couple of our basic learnings uh probably we should have learned this earlier but at least we have learned it now
is that uh irrespective of how the platform performs the that's the the use that we promise
the user experience user experience yes i think that is a target for everybody actually, to make the user experience
easier.
I mean, bringing in Google login and making the experience as similar to a centralized
exchange as such.
I think everybody's almost all platforms nowadays are working towards that actually.
So I think as far as user experience is concerned,
there's not much variety that we can bring in as a platform nowadays actually. But I think
more than that, the user experience also includes how the order book looks, how the liquidity is
there and how the spreads are working out actually that is a big
learning for us over the last three to four or four weeks as such ever since launch actually
because we can give the best uh login type we can give the best centralized exchange kind of
experience we can give it all actually but unless we have very tight spreads, unless we have very good liquidity, the bigger traders will not take any perps plot from very serious ways.
I believe, we strongly believe that is one of the major, major plus points for Hyperliquid. with the reason why they are able to hit such kinds of volumes is mainly because their order
books are so packed they are so tight and all that actually which is what the bigger traders
want we could do all the rest of the stuff the maximum in at least in our experience the maximum
that we can do is attract around it like the retail traders. So probably you could attract around 300 traders
or 400 traders at the maximum actually who are basically retail traders. But if you want to
take it, really take it to the next level, because as I said earlier, any plus platform that you start
nowadays, people are going to compare you to hyperliquid action.
That is a given example, right?
So if you want to make any sort of intent
in that reputation as such,
we firmly believe that your order book needs to be very packed,
your liquidity needs to be very, very high actually,
so that if we get traders start considering the others
at different platforms a different platform other than it or you just think about it now as a trader
because i always view it as a trader because i am a trader for the past 20-40 years so when i see
things as a trader actually so the question is really comes down to why should I choose
this specific platform? Because there are so many platforms nowadays, so much of competition
nowadays actually. So why should I trade on this specific platform? Rewards and incentives
will only get carriers through for a specific period of time, actually. But if you want to survive the long-term game, actually,
which we want to actually,
we have to work on certain other things.
And these are the learnings that we have got
over the last three to four weeks, that's it.
That's amazing.
I mean, that's happening, right,
is taking those learnings, amplifying them
for your future plans, and
adapting and pivoting or adjusting or improving, you know? So, those seem pretty impactful,
too. And thank you for sharing them, because I think a lot of people in the space could
probably learn from those learnings to maybe help those that are maybe not fully on Mainnet yet,
or those considering building in general. So appreciate that.
Appreciate that. Amazing. And it's a huge milestone nonetheless, getting the mainnet.
And it sounds like it's gone off flawlessly. So congrats to you and the team.
Thank you. So far, so good, actually.
So I think we all believe that we are just starting, actually.
We don't consider ourselves as being experienced
or having worked on this for two years for us.
It is a new start from mainnet actually.
So we really want to build this.
The journey's just beginning.
Exactly, exactly, yeah.
That's awesome.
That is awesome.
Love it, love it, love it.
And I guess we'll wrap up this question
on the Merkle side and your team there,
anything you, you know, as far as your journey,
you have that mobile app that's a little bit of alpha you mentioned as anything
you've built over your,
over the time of working with Merkle that you have shipped and you could share
like, you know, how, how it's gone, any type of impact that you've learned,
any lessons learned, anything that's exciting about what's coming up either
maybe it's the mobile app or
Anything else because Merkle you guys have been shipping
So we'd love to hear what you would like to jump in and contribute to the to the question
Yeah, I guess I am a bit lucky because I joined the team like about eight months ago and by that time
like about eight months ago.
And by that time, the product and the platform
you know like the product and
that Patrick and Jai, they are our co-founders,
they already built a really solid product with a solid user
base and then a daily volume.
But what I can share over the last eight years,
working with the community, trying to grow user,
getting more volume to the platform.
I guess I can't hit all the pinpoints that any Pubnex can imagine.
I think we are operating in one of the most competitive vertical in the space.
There are so many options across different chains in terms of Dex or Pubnex
that users have a lot of options to choose. so many options across a different chains in terms of text or pub next that you know like you know
user have a lot of options to choose so you know and you know the product um it's pretty much like
similar or like standardized across a different platform uh without too much differentiation
so you know you really to make um our platform like more outstanding outstanding from the other product.
It's a lot of work, it's a lot of innovation,
a lot of sweat that we need to put into.
And also, from what I saw,
like building a product is one thing,
but like maintaining it on a day-to-day basis
is another challenge.
Same to what like Tadic said,
at MoCo, we offering just because our product was really high leverage compared to other web networks.
And we offer high leverage on long tail assets like MemePour as well.
So risk management on a daily basis is a huge challenge for us.
We see it as a whole spectrum of trade-off in the product that we're offering.
Sometimes in terms of risk management, we have to sacrifice the max open interest, the maximum winning money that users can get.
Just to balance it out, monitoring the market activities,
like volatility on a daily basis.
And in crypto market, you know, usually things move
at the same direction, like one day when the market is up,
like everything is up and same for where the market is now.
So it's like heavily skew.
The volatility is heavily skew to one side on any certain days.
So we have to make sure, you make sure we manage all that type of risk to protect
both users and liquidy providers on our platform,
make sure the platform is functioning.
Also, maintaining user interest is another key challenge.
I guess not only for Publix,
but also all other DeFi apps right now,
it's still a lot of incentive driven.
People come to use your product.
For the big part of that,
it's because of the incentive you offer.
When the incentive is out,
we can easily switch to another product.
We don't have that kind of luxury of offering too big of incentive or rewards for user.
We have some, but I guess it's not like infinity to infinity.
So I guess we try to bring innovation to our trading season, to our tokenomics,
to our rewarding mechanism to make sure that users enjoy trading on our platform.
And same for our upcoming app. I guess we want to have a perfect product from the beginning,
but it's never the case.
We try to deliver the best we can on the first version.
And throughout the way, we receive a lot of feedback
from users, a lot of bugs on the way that we need to fix.
Same thing for the browser product that we already
offer when we try to launch a new thing.
We hope nothing happens.
We hope the bug or the issues going through the process,
we learn from it and then we fix it.
Then in the meantime, moving a product from a web browser to a mobile app,
we want to make sure the experience is the same,
the user experience with the product is nothing changed,
nothing to compromise.
And then hopefully everything works out at the end.
But it's still an ongoing process.
We have been operating for a year and a half.
And every day, we have to do risk management.
We have to think of innovative way
to attract users, rewarding users,
and also try to bring innovation to keep users using our product, trying to compete with other
products and a bunch of other competitors. Obviously, hyperliquid is a big one.
Trying to compete with them in different angles. We don't want to go head to head, but we try to bring up innovation
and new product to compete with them in different ways. It's a really painful process, but a
lot of learning curve, a big learning curve on the way. And luckily, we have a bunch of
users that are providing good feedback for us. Exciting to see a lot of competition in a good way
from the ecosystem as well.
We learn from each other
and hopefully delivering the best user experience,
the best product for all AdWords users.
Amazing.
And honestly, you're spot on there, I think.
It's like a tale that needs to be said a little bit more
about the maintenance of an ongoing product and protocol, right?
That's all I got to say.
Sorry, it was rumbling.
No, no, no.
All good.
No, all good for sure.
I don't know if you can hear me or not.
Can you?
Can't hear me?
I can hear you.
Oh, sick.
Definitely good, definitely good, Merkle.
And I mean, I think you're highlighting just,
definitely highlighting just how important it is
to manage a protocol after launch
and the challenges that can come with that,
especially risk management.
I mean, you guys are, as you mentioned,
doing very um
like interesting approaches too with the long tail so managing those is no easy feat i can only
imagine um so sneezing you want to jump in i know you had another question that was burning
uh yes sir i see marco's having some connectivity issues so he'll be back in a second probably
oh i think back already okay um so i wanted to ask the panel um
what about your perp stacks is better or only possible because it's being built on Aptos?
Okay, cool.
I'll give you a quick answer, and then I have a call here in one minute.
Yeah, I mean, we were building a sauna before,
and we really liked the performance and speed of Solana.
This was like a couple years ago where FTX blew up.
And we chose Aptos, you know, for one reason.
We felt it was like the next iteration of that Solana tech.
The speed, the performance, it's unmatched, and we wanted to pick a place that we could build on for years to come.
And, you know, it's been years at this point point and it still is like top of the line on everything.
I don't see that changing anytime soon.
And even it's kind of gone above our expectations
with things like Shelby.
So we're super excited about like just the Aptos tech
in general, what it can do.
And it's not limited to just like the blockchain anymore.
It's like this whole decentralized storage engine.
And yeah, so we've been super impressed with Aptos.
We kind of made a bet early on, you know,
we didn't know it would develop like this,
but it's paid out really well.
And so like on the performance side,
obviously gas fees are super low.
It's basically unmatched.
You know, you click your buttons
and the transaction's done.
So we love that.
But yeah, I actually have to go.
Thank you for having me.
I'm telling you more whenever.
Appreciate the hell out of you, bro.
You guys have been huge,
huge supporters of the show
all the way
back to when it was me, AtreyuApe,
and three other people.
For sure.
Yeah, it's nice to be here.
It's nice to be on the panel with
Hannah and Merkle.
Yeah, I love y'all. And shout out to
Blueberry in the crowd
for shilling Desert Island on
Emoji Coin. that's my guy right
there. But let's go see y'all later. Appreciate you. Have a great night. Have a good one Mason.
Appreciate you. All right. Cardick, we'll go to you. Yeah, so I think Mason covered most of it.
So obviously, I think the answer would be similar from all the perfect answers on Aptos.
Because we chose Aptos because of the speed and the gas efficiency as such.
So right now, as you might know, the users, the traders don't need to pay gas fees on the
kana platform all the gas fees for all the trades all the deposits all the withdrawals
are sponsored by our own platform and i believe this is possible only because of the gas efficiency
of uh actually so uh and i believe uh we chose to build a fully on chain platform so that was one of our
first decisions and for it to be an on chain fully on chain platform it had to be on a chain that is
really really fast right if you are going to challenge the other first devices, which I said, as I said earlier, have most of their architecture of chain, actually.
If you wanted to do and match those speeds on chain, we needed to go for a chain that is really, really fast as such.
So that is one of the major reasons why we chose Aptos.
Things have only gotten even faster once we began and we are happy to see
that Aptos has also aligned to the vision of being a global trading engine. We are also
very excited about the upcoming features which will make it even more faster like the Raptor actually that they are talking about so we want Aftos to get as fast
as possible so the fully on chain for Dex was a natural fit for Aftos because I believe that not
just for us even for Aftos it is a challenge actually to make the speeds as fast as possible because to bring in HFTs, bots and all that,
speed is a really very important component.
So, as I said, it is a challenge to get to that speed, not just for our own platform,
it is also a challenge for Aftos as well to prove that actually.
So, yeah, that is the reason why we chose to build on Aftos.
So let's go.
I was really hoping you were gonna talk about that
because what you're doing completely on chain perpstex
needs to be near instant for it to work effectively.
needs to be near instant for it to work effectively.
Exactly.
So that is it's not easy actually, right?
So as I said, the order books on need to be on chain,
the order settlements need to be on chain.
So unless you can actually get close to what you can achieve
in track of chain actually, nobody's going to even consider off-chain.
So that is the biggest challenge.
If I'm going to settle trades at say 800 milliseconds or 900 milliseconds,
when the off-chain platforms are settling it at 100 milliseconds or 150 milliseconds,
then there is no competition over here.
We cannot even compete.
So we, I believe we and Aptos need to work hand in hand.
They also need to get faster.
We also need to get faster so that we can match those.
Man, I'm not gonna lie.
There's two truths. It feels like in life that you
will be taxed and aptos will be faster that's uh that's pretty much it yes yes that's right yep
yeah let's go
and i feel i'd be shocked if mer Marco wasn't telling a very similar line.
Sorry, I got dropped off for a while, but I'm back now.
I guess I just want to touch it really quick on your question,
because I got all the poise from a technical perspective.
Our founders were engineering background and they won the hackathon, the Aptos hackathon
in Seoul.
So that's where we started.
But because of the product, we offer super high leverage trading.
So the fast finality and all the speed and the cheap gas fee is crucial to our product.
We could not get to our position we are today without all those tech features.
Also, the Aptos team, Aptos Lab and Foundation have a really strong background technicality.
The team was from Meida mostly.
A lot of PhDs on the team, they know that technology
stuck really well and they offer us a lot of support from the very beginning up until now,
strong support from the foundation, both from the technicality, the product idea,
the strategy and stuff. And it helped us a lot on the way.
And when we started, the whole ecosystem was new.
A lot of potential, we always want to be
like an early builder,
when we can start everything from scratch,
fixing things on the way and improving our product before getting too much
pressure, too much attention, competition otherwise. But yeah, for us, it's all about
the tech and the support from the foundation, and it works very well with us so far.
So far, let's go.
Let's go.
I mean, it's a challenging thing you all are building on,
but having that incredibly fast speed and low cost just makes limitless possibilities.
And I think you're both showcasing just how feasible
that is to challenge what we all knew as Web3 prior
to being part of Aptos.
So awesome to see the innovation
that all the projects are doing
and how they're leveraging what is only achievable in Aptos.
With that being said though, I think we're gonna ask,
just I think one more question to, I know we're going to ask just, I think, one more question.
I know we've had you for an hour here, so to close out a little bit here,
we've kind of talked about this with the competitive landscape of DeFi and perps
across all of Web3, not just on Aptos. It sounds like it really is truly an on-chain competition in some regard, highly competitive.
How do you all see the panel?
How does the panel see, like, the future of DeFi and Perps across Web3, not just Aptos?
What do you see as the future in some regard to talk about?
You can take that however you want, I guess.
So, Karthik, if you want to
jump into that question, please go for it. Sure. So, yeah. So, we have seen this, to be very honest,
yes, we have seen a lot of perp spaces nowadays, and that is usual across any competitive landscape as such. Whether in web 2 or web 3, anything that works
will immediately be copied upon by multiple platforms. So that is a natural thing. But I
think like in every other space, there is going to be a natural progression. So not all of them
are going to survive. Most of them are going to drop off at some point of time,
and others are going to basically choose their niches. From our experience, we have seen this
happening in the forex broking industry as well actually. So, forex brokerages around six or seven years back we saw a lot of forex brokerages coming up there
were literally thousands of forex brokerages all around the world actually providing very
similar services actually most of them have been shut down by now actually and they are
shut they got shut down for multiple reasons number one was
that regulations started coming in actually by in different regions so once regulations start coming
in then depending upon what the regulations are actually are in that specific region the
platforms have to adapt the cost of running the platform will go high because
of the regulations actually and the business will become sustainable I'm sorry unsustainable at some
point of time if you are not doing it correctly or if you do not have the right user base as such
so that is one of the major reasons why a lot of brokers got shut down actually.
The other reason is obviously too much of competition. So obviously unless you are well
funded and unless you are able to survive that long term game, you have to shut down
basically. So most of the other platforms got shut down because of this reason. And what
we have seen in the FX brokers, the forex broking industry, is a consolidation of the other platforms got shut down because of this reason and what we have seen in the fx
brokers broking industry the forex broking industry is a consolidation of the uh platforms
assets so right now you can probably count uh less than 10 big platforms in the in that industry as
such though there were literally thousands earlier actually so there has been a consolidation in
that space.
I think something similar will happen in the works as well.
Not everybody is going to survive actually.
There are simply too many actually.
So if you want to survive, you have to be nimble.
You have to adapt.
You have to learn your feedback, learn your lessons very quickly actually
and adapt to that.
And I would also
suggest Adolf Pappah and we internally basically think that we have to choose our niche audience.
What are we going to be actually? It cannot be just another first step. So what are we? So are
we going to focus on specific features which no one else has? Are we going
to focus on specific geographical regions which nobody else has enough access to? Are
we going to go for a specific kind of an audience as such? Are we going to target specific kind
of traders? These are the kind of niches that we believe we should be working on actually.
And I think that is true for any DeFi platform, not just the Perk Dex. We have so many AMM
Dex out there actually, nowadays actually. And as I said earlier, and as I said, others
also said as well actually, these incentives, these rewards cannot go on forever. Most of the platforms, most of the large
volumes that you are seeing nowadays is driven through rewards, incentives, tokens, this and
that and all that actually. But that is not a sustainable business. But at the same time,
we have to see what we can do to build a sustainable business because Google doesn't offer you any incentives or such. They, in fact, ask you to subscribe to
their services. Microsoft doesn't offer you any rewards or such, but still they are able to build
sustainable businesses. So that is how we should view it. We cannot build a business through just rewards and incentives alone.
So these are the different factors that we have to consider, not just as a purpose platform,
but generally across DeFi, there are only just five or six narratives that are driving
the DeFi at this point of time. And in all these five, six narratives, there are simply
too many players actually at this point of time. But in all these five, six narratives, there are simply too many players actually at this point of time.
But definitely people are going to drop off. Only those who are
nimble, those who find that niche audience are going to
survive.
Love it. And like you're 100% spot on too. If there's demand,
interest, and people find that is there's volume expect to be copied
so i love that that kind of phrasing there and i think you're spot on being nimble agile
and listening to the demands of your customer base provides the best opportunity to be relevant and
present in a hyper competitive industry so that's cool and great great great uh i think honestly
response i don't know.
I think you took in a slightly different direction than I was expecting, but I think that's still
incredibly relevant. So appreciate that, actually. Thanks. Okay. And I guess, Merkle,
same question to you. I mean, in a hyper-competitive industry,
how do you see the future of DeFi and perps?
Jump on in.
Yeah, I guess like at the end of the day,
it all comes through like two things.
It's efficiency and convenience for user.
Similar to Mirage and Kana,
they are building, now they're working on
a few of the hottest topics in DeFi
and the crypto space in general,
which is like CLOB model and stable coin,
year bearing stable coin.
It all trying to bring the capital efficiency
and convenience for users. They want, with certain amount of capital, you know, they want to extract or, you know, like earn, they get the maximum amount of it.
And, you know, we, I'm glad, you know, like we have, like, all of us, you know, are trying to build that on Aptos.
Honestly, so far, I think we have to admit that all of the innovation in DeFi and crypto, the majority of them was on Solana.
We see all of the new ideas coming out of them.
And every other ecosystem, we're trying to build a similar thing or making it better.
So I guess from AppTorps perspective in general,
we want projects like ours.
We don't let behind in terms of the innovation
in the whole space.
We also have to try to come from a different angle.
Like at MoCo, the reason we come in for the app
is because our target user, we don't want is because we are a target user.
We don't want to only target DeFi native users.
We also want to serve a broader audience of Web2 and Web2.5 users who are used to centralize
exchange or who doesn't know about DeFi or DeFi is too complicated for them. We want to abstract away all of the complexity using DeFi and
trying to get to the ultimate point of when users can use DeFi without knowing there's a DeFi on
the back of it. So everything is going to look like consumer apps. It's going to be like an app on
your phone where you can earn the DeFi yield, trading, doing anything, sending payment, all those kind of stuff,
making it easier and convenient for a broader range.
So I guess we want to set that specific target audience
and want to serve them the best.
Innovation is usually easier said than done, to be honest.
When we try to be innovative in certain ways,
it's very hard because most of the ideas are already executed
successfully or not in the space.
So we think at the end of the day,
it's still capital efficiency and convenience for users,
making it super friendly that everyone everyone can use, regardless of your
knowledge base.
You can be like mom and pop and still using DeFi without even knowing DeFi.
So that's our goal.
And hopefully, with the app coming and with the improvement on the way, we're going to
deliver that type of product and vision, not only for MoCo, but also for everyone else
in the AdTorz ecosystem and the whole crypto audience.
Spot on.
And it's true.
I think you're painting a beautiful picture
of what's possible in the not so far distant future, I hope, right?
Where everyone's got DeFi and Aptos in their pocket, accessible, and more so almost Web 2.5 users could become this is their normal rather than this is considered anything other.
So, so freaking bullish on that future.
I'm not gonna lie.
I know Sneezy, I see you over there.
How are you feeling about that?
And these outlooks for what we have ahead of us
in the future of DeFi and perps particularly?
So Aptos is going to keep cooking the best tech in the industry and it is going to keep the amazing builders that we have on their toes and growing and just rethinking their products and just onboard the next generation of super devs and unicorns, to be honest. Like, so bullish on these answers
and so bullish on the rising tide
because the stronger all of our dApps perform,
the more amazing builders we're going to draw to the ecosystem
and the cycle is just going to continue.
That's exactly how I'm thinking.
I'm with you a thousand percent.
More amazing tech, more amazing dApps,
more users to adopt and yeah, the flywheel continues.
It's awesome.
Way to paint that.
Cool. I mean, this has been awesome.
Marco, you want to jump in?
Yeah, please.
Oh, I mean, if we have a couple minutes,
I just kind of wanted to have a question for you two.
You two, obviously, you talked to a bunch of builders on Aptos.
So you have probably a broader, deeper picture
in terms of ecosystem projects
and the direction the whole ecosystem is going.
Just wanted to hear from you guys, probably one minute for action.
What do you think AppTots need to go to the next level competing with other bigger ecosystem
out there?
Just curious from you guys.
Wow.
The tables are almost never turned on us, Sneezy.
I don't even know how to respond.
That sounds perfect.
I love it though. Sneezy, you want to jump in first?
I don't even...
What does the ecosystem need in order for Aptos to continue thriving?
I think is Merkle the kind of question.
How would you respond to that?
I mean, I'm going to take a cop-out answer and just say, let them cook. I think that,
like, we're seeing it in real time. Like you can go back.
I'm so glad that we started recording these spaces when we did,
because you can literally go back and listen to the progression in the Aptos
ecosystem from when these were more of a chill space and it was more community
members coming in and just talking about more of what we needed to see built on Aptos to the builders building that to the team doing what they need to do to make the things happen.
Like you look at when we started the space, we were still talking about how Aptos needed native stable points.
Like we needed USDC and USDT.
Now we have that, we have USDE.
Like one of the common tropes
was that we needed more DeFi protocols,
more things for people to do in the ecosystem.
And like, since the, like,
I want to say end of Q3,
beginning of Q4 last year,
it has been almost nonstop with DeFi protocols hitting mainnet, TGEs.
We're seeing it.
I think we just need to let it cook.
We're onboarding.
That's the thing is there's so much stuff
that like there are new builders
here building winning
hackathons coming to Aptos building
crazy new projects
I'm going to just kind of
continue taking from
you CZ I mean you
I agree
with the let it cook.
I will also say like to kind of continue
to build and innovate, right?
I think that's, you know, we've been,
there's already amazing tech tooling
and protocols and projects, Merkle, Kana,
and Moonshye C, Mason with Mirage.
I got to say, continuing to innovate is always going to help, not hurt ever.
Taking bets, taking shots, taking what you think the future will look like best
and building it on the chain.
I think you referenced something from another chain that helps illustrate this point.
you kind of reference something from another chain that helps illustrate this point, right?
Taking those moonshots that help illustrate that there is a possibility of pushing the bounds of
what we all know is, I think what we're seeing with both of your projects up here with Mirage,
pushing the bounds of what we know is perps, that's possible, and continuing to prove that out,
not just from the tech perspective, but the user perspective too. Right? I think that's something that we're going to continue to see and should be seeing on Aptos
because of just the tech. The tech just enables these experiences that I think Sneezy, I'm just
going to quote you, the Web3 we were always promised, right? So Aptos is that and you guys
are building it. I think as long as we continue to see more builders continue which I'm pretty sure we're all confident is going to be the case that is ultimately what
will continue to push forward so innovation more builders and and and to continue pushing the
balance and I think only that will drive in more interest adoption people and curiosity right i think that's a lot of what web 3 is is just
curiosity people um are curious and once they get you know aptos pilled it's hard to look at
anywhere else so um if you can p curiosity i think that drives in a lot of attention
and interest which then drives in retention and people wanting to stick around because
once you're here it is really hard to go back to any other chain because of just what's possible, speed, the
tech available, the cost, and the protocols and projects that are here already.
So yeah, I think the viral loop continues.
The foundation's been built.
And I mean, I think we're going to talk about it in a second here, but it's, as Sneezy said,
showing proof. We just crossed 3 billion transactions. That's insane. I don't know
what other chains are doing some crazy numbers like that in their first few years, but
Aptos is here and they're showing it through on-chain data basically too. It's not just
words.
And I know we're going to talk about some other exciting stuff,
but that's, I think, I'm just picking back off of Sneezy's answer.
But, yeah, let's go.
Yeah, I love what you guys answered.
We want to be, like, a user-centric trend and projects,
everything for user.
AppTorps is for users.
1,000%?
It's built for users, seriously, right?
If we're competing with Web2 and Web 2.5 or whatever,
AppTorps solves that with simplicity of user onboarding
to the finality, right? Like it's, so that was just kind of showing what's possible.
And I think the problem is up here, you guys are doing that.
So just keep, we just gotta keep going.
Like as Sneezy said, let it cook.
I just said it slightly different than Sneezy, that's all.
Good question though.
That was, I think the first time Sneezy, I don't know.
Is that the first time we've ever been asked a question
on After Dark? I don't even know.
I feel we've been caught off guard before.
We've been doing this for a long time.
No, that's true.
It's been a hot second.
It's good though.
Keeping us on our toes.
We prepare for the next time.
Everyone knows I was going to ask you guys questions.
What do you guys think?
Get ready.
We kind of came up with that on the fly.
It feels pretty good, though.
It felt pretty good.
Cool.
Sneezy.
I mean, we're at the hour here.
I think we're wrapping up the panel, but I truly want to thank both teams coming up, sharing some amazing energy, vision, the excitement of what's happened and what's happening
and sharing some alpha that I couldn't be more bullish on with an iOS and Android app,
not going to lie.
So appreciate you both very much and Mirage Mason coming up and hanging out with us,
sharing that hour, hour and a half actually with us.
Really do appreciate the vibes and sharing all the good energy with us up here on After Dark for 65.
Thanks, Treyu. Thanks, Sleji, for having us here again, actually. Hopefully, we'll be back in a month or couple of months, actually, to share even more alpha and even more updates.
I think all of us, our builders, are building very quickly. So, the alphas, the updates, the features are going to come rolling in
all the next few months at quite a fast pace as such actually. So definitely, I think all of us
would probably get back again and share our updates over here on these spaces the next time
we are here actually. So thanks for having us once again. It was a great time as usual actually.
A bit early for me specifically,
but yeah,
but I think the discussion was very interesting,
which gave me to keep myself awake as such actually.
So thanks for having me
and hope to be back very soon once again.
Appreciate that again, thanks for coming out and hanging out.
Thanks for having us and thanks everyone for listening in.
It has been a great hour and a half.
And yeah, like I said,
hopefully we see each other in three months
and our thoughts gonna be, I guess like top two, top three,
perpetrating volume in the whole space
the floor is always yours whenever you guys want to come back
believe me it's been a pleasure pleasure's always you guys have a mic whenever you want
if you got something to share with the community swing by the mic is yours
definitely definitely would like to actually.
I think we need to especially ask you to be on more spaces as such
because we want to share a lot with our ecosystem as such.
So definitely we will be available many more times on this.
Thank you for that.
So let's go.
Let's go.
Cool, amazing space.
Okay.
Okay, thank you then, thanks all then.
Probably we will drop off for this time.
Thank you guys.
Thank you, thank you for hanging out with us
for this entire time and also for
the morning morning uh show appreciate it thank you thank you bye bye thanks everyone take care
thank you what an epic episode the pleasure is all ours i assure assure you guys. I love this shit, man.
Getting to talk to founders,
talking so passionately about their projects
and what they're building.
This is what Web3 is about, man.
Honestly, spot on.
And honestly, everyone came up with such loaded answers.
It was a fun episode.
I kind of like the panel.
We don't do that too often say that
i was gonna say the same thing i didn't hate that oh i did not hate that i thought that was
that was a lot of fun i hope everyone enjoyed uh in the audience too and those that are listening
back that was good that was a lot of fun yeah should we mention just really quickly some things? Yeah, rapid fire, ecosystem catch-up, the last two weeks.
Did we just mention Shelby?
Two hours later.
Did we just mention Shelby really quick?
I mean, talk about Epic.
I don't know.
You were literally at permissionless.
You called it in After Dark.
I literally did. i literally did i did i literally did that was crazy when that i and i don't you were playing
you were playing cool with me i feel like at that point i don't know dude i i i i i defined ndas i I can't say shit, bro. I was like, damn. And redacted.
I literally, man, that was, honestly, though, Shelby epic.
Seriously, though.
So freaking cool.
It is, I don't think it is a game changer.
I don't know.
It's huge.
Understatement.
Yeah.
It's not just storage.
It's taking a run at AWS. Like like it's taking a run at real cloud storage
oh man it's so freaking bullish aptos is prepped to do it so that's the best part it's not like
just the thing it's like we're we can do this shit that's only possible on aptos
yeah man i i'm super bullish on that.
Excited for what's coming.
And I mean, the fact that they...
I mean, even though I called it,
it was like one of those things
that you just can't really...
You're saying it,
but it's just crazy
that it's actually happening.
It's going to be monumental
for everyone building on Aptos too,
I think.
Anyone choosing?
Oh, man.
Super excited.
So you look at the partnerships that are already in place
Polish
Oh, I think I have rugged.
Shit.
I can't hear you.
Well, After Dark, Episode 65, Struggles for Atreyu.
I'm just going to say thank you for everyone that came and hung out.
I can't hear anything right now. Much love.
Epic way to end it with Shelby.
Unfortunately, I can't hear anybody at the moment.
Much appreciation for everyone coming
and hanging out with us and spending a little bit
of time on their Monday.
Sneezy, I love you.
Jam Jam, I love you.
Love everyone that came and hung out with us.
I can't hear anything you guys are saying,
so I'm just gonna slowly leave and share some love. Thank you.
