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Aptos After Dark ep-73
Recorded: Sept. 8, 2025 Duration: 1:12:19Space Recording
Full Transcription
Thank you. I
They're gonna be here and
work Oh I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I's a way, I'm just gonna find my hand.
When it's not, I will be back. Thank you. Music yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah I don't know. Oh Oh, yeah. What I want It might be hard to handle, but like a flame that burns a candle, but can't it be the flame?
Yeah, I don't know what I've got, full stop, I've fought some dreams, I'm scared.
You pull and fall again, and I can't explain, oh yeah, well, well, you, you make me think Oh, yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.
Wow.
Wow. Wow.
Wow.
Wow. Wow.
Wow. Wow.
Wow.
Wow. Wow.
Wow.
Wow. Wow. Wow.
Wow.
Wow.
Wow. Wow.
Wow. Wow.
Wow.
Wow.
Wow.
Wow. Wow.
Wow.
Wow.
Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Oh, yeah. Cause I ain't the way you found me, and I never think the same
All you get is you, you, you, you, you, you
You make my dreams run, you, you, you, you
Well, well, well, you, you, you, you
You make my dreams run, you, you, you, you oh I can sing. oh
you What is going on?
Happy Monday, everybody.
Welcome to Aptos After Dark.
Just waiting to get Atreyu back up here.
Looks like we're having some technical issues.
In the meantime, welcome to episode 73.
Should be a good episode tonight. We got another prediction powerhouse in the house.
Banana predictions.
Oh, there we go.
A trade.
Testing, testing.
Uh-oh.
Uh-oh.
Can anybody hear me?
Banana, Atreyu, you guys there?
Yeah, I can hear you.
Okay, heck yeah.
Well, we'll give it another second for Atreyu to get up here.
But if his problems persist, we will just power through. Okay.
He's fixing it.
He's leaving and coming back.
In the meantime, how's it going, Banana?
What do we have behind the mic this evening? Yeah, thank you. and coming back. In the meantime, how's it going, Panana?
Who do we have behind the mic this evening?
Yeah, thank you. Hi, I'm Aaron from Panana. And yeah, doing great. Thank you for asking.
So really excited for this upcoming space.
Gentlemen, can you hear me yep yep hey there he is my gosh i uh x is just a battlefield for me
right now i'm out here just sitting in the perpetual waiting room it seems like but anyway
uh let's go sneezy how you doing? Happy Monday. Doing fantastic. Better now.
Yeah, let's go. Me too. Yeah, doing quite good.
Operating on a little bit of sleep, but enjoying the Monday.
Nonetheless, episode 73. If this is your first time here, welcome.
Welcome to Aftos After Dark, where we discuss awesome things with awesome people,
projects and protocols around the Aftos ecosystem,
hosted by myself, Atreyu and Sneezy. If you're liking
the content, vibing with anything we're saying or enjoying
any of the guests and what they're saying
please throw us a like, a follow
and of course the guests that are jumping in and hanging out
with us during their evenings, nights and mornings.
Let's go.
Episode 73.
That's right. As always
never any financial advice. just a bunch of cool people
talking about the awesome stuff being built on the aptos blockchain that being said if you vibe with
anything we're talking about or want to get involved with any of the projects all you got
to do download a petra wallet it's that simple get involved let's go let's go i'm pumped for this one i uh i see we got pen
up here and i already did a quick intro but um yeah it's gonna be a fire space i'm pretty sure
right prediction markets man i the more i interact with them and learn about them the more and more
bullish i am on them i think this is it's also a really good use case for AppHouse in general.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like you're, you're trading and without even another use case where you don't
have to worry about a gas or any of this kind of stuff at all.
It seems super seamless, really good user experience.
I'm so pumped to be jumping in with Aaron and banana.
So Aaron, you gave a quick intro as I was in the perpetual X loop here, trying to load.
Do you want to, I guess, give a quick intro to those that may be first time hearing about
Panana and who you are behind the mic and a little bit about the company and what you
guys are building?
I know Sneezy and I are alluding to it pretty aggressively, and so is your name.
But yeah.
Yeah, sure.
Of course. but yeah yeah yeah sure thank you um of course so um yeah we're building banana which is as you
mentioned like um a new prediction market on aptos and um yeah like um we started um like around
seven to eight months ago um i think with the aptust code collision hackathon so back then there was like this big
collision hackathon um and we um like um we means my co-founder marcel and i and we yeah participated
and um won the defy track and we thought that hey this is like the perfect start to continue
that hey this is like the perfect start to continue with this project and yeah back then we
built the prediction market because it was just like after the presidential election or like
polling market was still quite hyped and we see like lots of value in prediction markets not only
that it is like many people see it just as gambling or betting,
but we think that it actually has like more to offer and more value to give to
people to provide because you have like this real insight into public sentiment
into like public opinion. And this is why we said, Hey,
we want to build a prediction market. And yeah,
we chose up those because yeah, like also as you mentioned like super low um gas fees
um almost instant transactions and which is like also like a really good prerequisite for prediction
markets and um yeah then we um participated at the hackathon won the defy track and since then
we're basically building we pivoted a few times like or
yeah change the direction a little bit and what we are building we started like with super super
fast-paced prediction which changed like every day um to more like of a traditional prediction market
right now but we still have those fast and paced in mind, and these are still part of our platform.
And yeah, so this is where we are now.
We are about to launch tomorrow and are super excited about it, and also super happy to share more details about it today.
Wait a second. Did we say we're launching mainnet tomorrow?
I think I just heard that, Sneezy.
What?
What the hell?
Exactly true, yeah.
Let's go.
That's the best way to start a space ever.
Straight hackathon to mainnet, all done on Apt aptos and in less than a year yeah exactly
yo let's go yeah it was like a fantastic and amazing time so we met so many great people
um got great support um while building and yeah super happy about it so far and really excited to now like get it out there
and get the first people like actually using it
on production.
I mean, we're live, we've been live on testnet
for quite some time now.
I think with the current version of the product
for about like one or two months,
but now it's like finally the time where we can say,
hey, let's go to mainnet and let's get like people
onboarded from within and even outside
of the Atlas ecosystem.
Let's go, okay.
Okay, okay, okay.
Holy cow.
I did not expect us to be jumping into mainnet.
That's fricking super exciting.
Drop in the alpha and after dark, I love it. Um, and I, I do feel like we got to give a little bit of, um, you know, story on the
hackathon and how you guys found out about the hackathon and, and then also, yeah, I
mean, like, you know, it sounds like you, you gave a little bit of how and why you
chose like the prediction market.
And I guess maybe if you want to talk about the journey now that you post hackathon,
how the iteration has been.
It sounds like there's been some pivots, some changes, some updates.
Walk us through a little bit of the journey.
I mean, because it's awesome to hear someone come in from a hackathon.
I don't know if you're Aptos native before the hackathon,
but come in for a hackathon, win the hackathon,
or at least the DeFi segment, as you said,
which if you want to talk about that hackathon at all, because that was really cool.
I remember that one particularly.
So if you want to jump into anything like that, but then also about the journey, you
know, you guys built, you've been on Testnet for a bit, and then, you know, you made some
iterations.
Walk us through it a little bit, because I mean, it sounds pretty exciting, you know,
to hear that you've made transit, you know, iterations, pivots, and went through this
kind of entire cycle, basically.
Yeah, yeah, sure.
So, yeah, initially, I mean, like both of us, we both have a software engineering background, basically.
So we know how to build stuff.
And, yeah, we've been active, like, in Web3 like a few years four or five years and um like
previously we've been active on mostly evm chains and um but we were looking into like the next big
thing you know and then we just yeah looked into like all the different protocols and what's out
there like aside from the traditional like EVM chains.
And this is how we ended up on like AppDos because we like were really impressed by like the tech they've built.
So with the like fast finality, short block times and everything like that was amazing.
And this is why we decided we want to, yeah, get into AppDos or into Apdos or learn more about it.
And then we just saw that there's a hackathon ongoing.
And we thought, hey, why don't we just participate and build something on Apdos?
And this is how it all started in the beginning.
Really quick, before you jump into the journey of the hackathon,
and talk a little bit about how it's been transitioning from the evm space to basically moving and move so you know you've
ran from solidity where i don't know if you're coding in rust or uh if you're on like solar
or anything like that but you know jumping over to a different language do you want to chat about
that just really quickly at a high level from you know the engineering perspective we don't
get too too much into details of like theitty gritty, but pros and cons, anything
you found that was really good that you didn't have available to you on EVM that you do now
have in Aptos. General experiences for those that are listening in now or listening back.
Yeah. It was interesting. In the beginning, it was a little difficult to wrap your head around,
I would say, because it works a little different. um on updos you can actually like own things um and like on evm chains you like you have like one
place like where everything is stored and like on updos you like actually like your account can own
things this like um works a little different um but as soon as you get the idea behind it i think
like it's really good and really nice to work with especially like also move which prevents a lot of
um like mistakes you could do with solidity for example um so yeah like i don't know if like there
are engineering engineers around our listeners i think like if
they know for example assembly which is like a super low level language for programming
and like the evm development morphics like assembly and like the move up those development
morphies like java or like a higher level language which which makes it like easier to do stuff and
yeah it's more developer friendly so this was really like great working with updos move.
And it's still like super nice compared to Solidity.
And I wouldn't go back or didn't want to use Solidity anymore
on a new project if I don't have to.
So you literally answered the question
that I was leading right to, which is,
would you go back to Solidity now that you've found a move? Yeah, no, no, I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't recommend would you go back to Solidity now that you've found a move?
Yeah, no, no, I wouldn't.
No, I wouldn't recommend anybody to go back to Solidity
because we can make so many mistakes,
which you just can't do without those.
So I would move.
I love it.
I love it.
OK, OK.
Sorry to divulge there a little bit into your coding journey,
because honestly, I think we don't get much talk
about that on After Dark with engineers coming in and chatting a little bit about their transition
into the move language.
So it's cool to hear from your perspective, Aaron.
So thank you for sharing a little bit there.
Yeah, I hope it wasn't too technical.
But yeah, happy to share.
No, that was good. That was perfect, honestly.
But yeah, I mean, if you want to jump into a little bit about your hackathon
and that entire journey and then the post-hackathon, the iterations, the pivots, the, you know, leading up to where you are today.
I mean, that I think it'd be cool to hear that entire perspective of like, you know, Panana and how it's kind of like changed basically up to this point.
Yeah.
Yeah, sure.
So, yeah, back then.
So, yeah, like we decided we want to build a prediction market for the hackathon. We looked into like up does move how it works and built this like first version, where like, there were like a few markets where people could just predict.
like there was one big pot um where like everyone put money in and then like at the end it was just
distributed evenly among the people who just participated so it was like a little bit different
compared to like the traditional prediction market where you have those like the shares and you buy a
share and then in the end it will become like worth one dollar or nothing um so but like the idea was the same they were like
real world events and you could just predict and participate and yeah it was good enough to win the
defa trick yeah um and um then yeah like after we um won this um hackathon we said like we want to continue the development because we really
enjoyed the process so far and also wanted to build like our own products on aptos and
also something we started with during the hackathon is that we designed everything to be like
telegram mini-app so people could use it from within telegram and from from their
phones and um yeah like from everywhere our idea was that people can use it just like on
their way to work or something and um the idea was hey telegram mini apps were also quite big
back then and i think there's still and still quite big so we started with the telegram mini app and um like shortly after this
telegram actually announced like exclusivity with um the ton network so like you cannot use or you're
not allowed to use other cryptocurrencies within after within telegram mini apps aside from ton
and so we had to pivot and say hey we still want to be like mobile mobile centered but
we cannot do the telegram mini-app anymore and this was like for example one thing where we had
to change and we needed to move away from the telegram mini-app thing and just like be like a
normal mobile responsive website which which is still pretty good.
I think you can still reach people, but the initial idea was gone.
So we had to change that.
We also had to...
We moved away from the initial idea where you have this big pot and then all people put
money in and then it gets distributed like this actual prediction market thingy we like read a lot about how it works what
what are the best options and then in the end we decided to go for an automated market maker
approach because like this allows for a continuous liquidity which is nice because you can always
buy and sell shares and you don't have to wait for like a counterparty to accept your offers or something
or like to have like a take order.
So yeah, this is also something
we then decided and built and continue building.
And this is where, yeah,
how we ended up where we are now basically.
Like short, long story short.
Yeah.
Honestly, shout out to you guys for sticking through
during that journey. I mean, there's
could have been, I would imagine many other builders
could have called it quits
right as the Tawn situation occurred, right?
You had your initial vision,
initial product, initial go to market probably
with Tawn, if I had to guess.
And then
Tawn just gets like,
Tom just kind of rug pulled everybody.
or Telegram, I guess you could say.
Yeah, definitely.
We didn't expect that.
And this is also where when we noticed
that we cannot be
too dependent on any third party
platform because they can always change
their rules
and then we need to pivot or think about something else.
So this is something we still do today.
We make sure that we don't depend too much on any third-party platforms.
It feels like it's a hard lesson across many industries too.
I don't think you're the first developer or team uh to stumble into being dependent on a third party for basically
distributions and then just uh yeah telegram's not even the first social media platform to do it
think about the when musk took over or elon took over x or twitter and changed all the API rules
and how that affected so many
up-and-coming projects,
especially in the crypto
social-fi space.
Yeah.
I'm thinking about Meta, too.
Meta, when they changed
all the gaming stuff,
basically got deprecated in one night for the most part.
Yeah, that was wild to see.
But anyway, very cool to see that you guys stuck through
in the situation where you could have just called it right there.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
And also, like for example, I always
have to think about the emoji coin, for example, I always have to think about Emojicoin, for example,
like a good example from the Uptos ecosystem.
Like if your product depended too much on like Emojicoins
with the platform shutting down,
that's like, yeah, real bad for you.
So, because we also like in touch with other projects
from the Uptos ecosystem, like meme projects,
emoji coin projects.
And like, I think for them, it's really bad that like the platform shut down.
But like, there's also like another example for you should not be too dependent on any
third party platform.
Yeah, I feel that pain, not gonna lie.
And I feel that pain all too well with one of the products i was building recently mistakes were
made but anyway um it's uh it's a harsh lesson lesson and it's good you know and honestly it's
kind of like one of those things that i feel like you have to go through it once to then recognize
the risk any any builders taking when they end up being like basically reliant on a third party
like like that you're you you don't own basically um it makes it more
difficult for sure i'm sure that's uh the hardest part uh now is figuring out how to how to handle
distribution and uh but again just shout out to you guys for sticking through it and uh and kind
of going through both of those kind of pretty big massive uh hurdles i would call them, in the journey there to kind of continue pushing through to where you are today.
So that's awesome.
That's dedication and conviction on Panana that you otherwise could have just called it a day.
Either of those would have been pretty much, I don't think anyone would have batted an eye.
But to see you guys stick through it, that's high conviction and i think bullish on you guys to say the least so thanks for sharing the story
i didn't i didn't know that personally so um yeah let's go yeah
tell i think
you guys are in a very emerging market.
Like, we're seeing Polygon, or not Polygon,
Polymarkets gain a ton of traction.
But I know it's so much more than just a betting platform, but I liken it to a betting platform in the sense of
there's going to be betting platform in the sense of there's going
to be multiple winners in this demographic um what i would love to talk about is some of the
things that separate panana from other prediction markets on the market right now
yeah yeah sure so i think um like one thing or there are a few things that separate us from other prediction markets. So one thing is that we use an automated market maker instead of an order book.
allows you to continuously make trades so you don't have to wait for another party.
And this also allows for having multiple earning or yield opportunities for the users because
there are different parties involved in this process.
So you can buy shares or predict on an outcome just like on any other prediction market out there.
But you can also step in as a liquidity provider to market just as on other DeFi protocols or DeFi apps like in a pool or something.
And when you provide liquidity, you can also earn like a share of the fees on that market.
So you can earn a share of the traded volume, basically.
So you have this opportunity to make money
by providing liquidity and not just buying shares
and hoping for the right outcome.
So if you see like a market
where you think there will be many people trading
this high volume market,
you can provide liquidity
to make it more attractive for other people
and also like earn revenue from that. this high volume market you can provide liquidity to make it more attractive for other people
and also like earn revenue by that from that so this is one thing um which makes us different and
like another thing is that all the shares of our markets are actual tokens so you see the shares
in your petra wallet for example um and you can just transfer them as you can do with all the other
tokens so i can send you sneezy for example um like shares um for example as a giveaway or something
i can send you my shares for market um and the idea behind that is that you can use the shares
or the tokens of the shares in other DeFi protocols.
So this is something we are also currently working on right now that you can use those
tokens to, for example, borrow or land against those tokens and to like deeply integrate
it into like other DeFi protocols to generate additional value from it so that you just don't have it on the platform
itself but you can also use it on other platforms, other apps, other protocols to make more out of
your shares that you already bought. 100% it's full ownership of your positions in these markets yes i i love that bullish on ownership
exactly yeah so and we're currently working with um yeah various like we we just um also um like
various, like we just also like,
we really look into like how,
or like who can we best partner with
within the AppDust ecosystem.
So like what we support from day one is that you can,
like we have integrated Panora to do like instantaneous
swaps, like, so you can swap into the markets.
So all our markets will be used to see from the beginning,
but you can use up, for example, to place a prediction.
And we use Panora and Panora's efficient swapping API
and routing to automatically swap all the shares
to use on the market.
So you can predict with up on the market,
even though the market is used to see, for and we're also looking into other like integration opportunities with um tab for example
tap exchange and see how we can um yeah build synergies and um use those um shares um or the
the tokens we offer on our platform to integrate it to like other protocols and make um yeah most
out of it.
Honestly, it's pretty cool.
That is a different approach for sure on predictions
to be able to even just have these almost as tradable tokens
that are now, are they considered fungible, I guess?
Like, is it just like a fungible asset
that you can now just like kind of
yeah i guess exactly yeah that's super cool yeah that's really interesting
yeah because most prediction markets if i'm not mistaken work as somewhat of a centralized
platform right yeah yeah exactly many of them just track like like how many shares you bought or like you have within like a certain market.
And this really limits the things you can do with it.
So this is why we took a different approach and thought, hey, why don't you just have those shares as token?
Then you could, for example, borrow against it and then like just leverage it or like buy a new UCC or like borrow against it by new UCC.
And with a UCC, you can buy new shares so you can actually like leverage your position just by having those shares for
example like yeah many things that you could do basically and we're still like looking into how
to best implement it and who we can partner with to do it that's pretty cool though just and I think
just the idea that you've made something like a you've just made these shares fungible i think is that alone is kind
of just cool like the fact that i could just buy 100 shares of like a prediction and then for
example it has a higher likely you know it's like maybe 100 likely it's going to happen like i can
just go and send like basically shares to people as gifts as an example here like you know yeah you know and uh that that's a in some essence like a
a free gift to whatever that value is but it's some form of value that people can be receiving now
um even even just as like if you're someone who is pushing a specific pool and you take out a strong early position right being able to use that to onboard
more people into your pool oh that's an interesting idea yeah like you get like a more decentralized
well that's I mean that's why a lot of people do giveaways on socials anyways right is to
get people involved and interested in their project.
I love that, actually. I think this allows you to take it one step further with your prediction market.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
We also have, like, markets created, like, in the beginning, we will, like,
like, most of the markets will be created by us.
But we still have, like, markets created for our partners our partners or like other projects that are interested in it.
So we can create projects for like, as I mentioned, tap exchange, for example, or like one like the infrastructure provider we are working together with, which is noted.
And we will create a market for them as well. So this is something we could do for every project.
So if any project, like Up is After Dark,
we could do a market, how many listeners will be
in the next Up is After Dark episode.
And then you can do the shares as a giveaway or something.
All this is possible with having the shares as tokens.
And I think that's just a great opportunity
for projects as well.
I love it.
I think, Sneezy we we need to
create a poll like just just like that was just said and i want to put in 10 000. that's that
will be for next space i'm just i'm just thinking about like having the ownership of the your essential stake in the pool i think that gives much more interest
or adds a lot of interest to longer term predictions like do you mean like providing
liquidity kind of thing is what you're saying? No, I just think it just adds more entertainment and more things to do with a longer prediction time frame.
What, for example?
one that came into my head when you were talking about being able to like trade your positions
was like if someone opened a market on whether elon musk was actually going to get his one trillion
dollars because i think that just any longer term position
i think it just adds more interest to that longer time frame oh maybe it's just not an
i seriously now 100 yeah i think i i agree i mean and it's like, and... A lot of the predictions I see are shorter time frame,
like six months to a year seems to be kind of
the longer term time frame on a lot of prediction markets.
I think having your positions being liquid
makes it more palatable or more interesting,
entertaining to have those longer timeframes.
Okay, I get you. Yeah, because you can then use the tokens for this long time frame to do
something else with the tokens. 100%.
Okay. Yeah. Well, even with the idea of doing DeFi with your tokens, that's, I mean, that's that concept alone, I think you would probably need longer term time horizons in order to like get something like of substance.
Like, you know, if you're doing a one month or less kind of time horizon on like a DeFi, like kind of trade there or not trade a prediction, like, yeah, I'm trying to think of wrap my head around like, my head around the DeFi approach of this. If I was to put this into some form of taking leverage against it or borrowing against it or using it as collateral,
if the prediction is...
Or maybe not, right?
I guess you could have those tokens that are considered a win, air quotes,
air quotes or I don't know what the right they've settled as a the correct prediction um I guess
or I don't know what the right...
They've settled as the correct prediction.
like that claiming of that token for the value that it's worth in USDC could be done at a later
date I guess so that's that's kind of what I guess you mean by like using it as collateral or borrow
against it and stuff like that even though it's a is that is that kind of the right way of I guess
framing it so it doesn't matter of the time horizon if it's shorter or longer,
as long as it equates to some denomination of USDC?
Am I getting this, I guess?
I think so.
Sorry, go ahead.
You should answer before me, because I probably am not correct.
No, yeah, I think you got it right. So yeah, if you have like this longer time period,
I think there's like less risk involved, because like, it's really hard to burrow against like a
position that's like closing like in one or two hours, because like, you always have the risk that like one side becomes zero.
And so if you have like this longer period of time, I think it makes more sense to borrow
against it because then you also have more like fluctuation of the price or like more
volatility of the price.
So it may change and you might like come back to where you thought it would be or stuff like this.
So I think like it definitely makes sense for a longer timeframe,
but like nothing prevents other like the protocol from also offering it for
shorter timeframes as well. Yeah. But it's an easy one. Sorry.
Well, I guess mine, the more I'm thinking about it as you're answering,
I think mine was more of a follow-up question than an answer to Atreyu. end of these prediction markets, I think we're going, like, as the platform gains much more traction, and as you see more, like, an example, like, if someone were to open a market on the
fight this weekend, like, you'll see, i don't think the time frame will matter as much it will
be more centered on the popularity of the market right because people will want to provide lp to
the markets that are getting the most volume, right? Yeah. Exactly.
So it really is, like, the better the markets,
like, the...
Yeah.
Sorry, I'm answering my own questions.
It's just such a fascinating, like...
There's so many ways you can go about it,
and it's...
The way you guys are doing it is very novel
and very exciting.
Joe, we got our big bro Brent in the house though.
What's up Brent?
What's up?
Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo.
Hey, I'm learning, I'm learning so much about prediction markets right now.
My, I, I requested to come up to speak because I wanted the first banana prediction that I put money on to be Elon Musk 10 years from now, whether he gets that trillion dollar bonus or whether he gets whatever, when he becomes a trillionaire or something like that.
But I don't mean to sound stupid here, but do other prediction markets allow for the trading of predictions?
That's a pretty good question.
So as far as we know, no major prediction markets offer something like this.
So there are some protocols just emerging. So because
like prediction markets are still emerging phenomenon, and there are like new projects
being or like new products being built on top of them. And we noticed that there are a few
products that, for example, want to implement like this boring lending for polymarket for example
polymarket shares so there are protocols like diving into this and building on top of existing
platforms like polymarket but i think there's no like major platform out there that allows for
like trading tokens or like yeah yeah, using it or utilizing
the tokens in a way that you can do with Panana.
That's so cool.
On the long-term time horizon, like I can see how valuable that becomes, especially are
you, is Panana going to be the lender in that borrowing?
Like, so if I bet right now on Elon Musk 10 years from now,
meeting all this quota is becoming the first trillionaire by some date,
will I be able to borrow from Panana someday
to against my bet if it seems like that's that's coming true?
Yeah, like possible. So I mean, like mean um like this is something we definitely need to look
into um and see if we can like do it or want to do it ourselves or if we can do it with a partner
um so yeah like this is still like ongoing process um because we now like focus on the mainnet launch
and like then from that point we are like
focusing on integrating other partners platforms protocols and like continue accelerating and
developing the product and if like borrowing and lending is like the next step and this what's the
community wants then this will definitely be part of our roadmap and like happening soon after that
is so cool. Major congratulations.
This sounds like the next step in prediction markets.
Of course, I have to tune in to Aptos after dark
in order to hear the alpha.
But major congratulations on mainnet.
I'm adding to Petra ecosystem events right now,
making sure everybody else knows about your mainnet launch.
So is there a time on mainnet tomorrow?
Or is it like kind of TBD?
And where are you located?
So I know what tomorrow actually means.
Is it September 9th?
Yeah, so there's no time announced.
So you just have to keep your eyes open.
And like we're based based in Europe, Germany.
So yeah, Europe time, you see plus one, two,
something like this.
Well, count on the Germans for peak engineering.
Very cool, major congratulations.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Thanks, Brent, for being a homie.
And honestly, that's such a good question too,
like how that could transpire with the borrow lending situation in the future.
Because the fact that people are already building on top of Polymarket
just shows us demand for the future.
And you guys are just kind of looking to vertically integrate everything into Panana.
So the fact that you have that foresight
and you're looking to think about that already potentially in the future like that's that's pretty cool to be
that like you're you're deep into the like the prediction ecosystem to understand like what
users are looking for and how you can basically get ahead of what doesn't exist yet pretty commonly. So that's awesome. Good stuff. I can't,
I can't imagine like taking a position out on that.
And I think I'd have to, I think I'd have to go with yes as well.
Elon must be in a trillionaire. I think the bigger bet is,
does he get to Mars in like by 2040 or some crazy thing like that?
You know, do we, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I know. Mars by 2040 or some crazy thing like that? Do we...
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
I think this is really interesting
and we
actually want to focus on the prediction
side of things because we also have
1,000 ideas on this side.
For us, it would be
great if we... they're like protocols
who just like are just building borrowing and lending this is like its own product right
and so i mean we could integrate it but this will probably also like require a lot of effort and it's
like not the thing we want to focus on so like ideally um like we could partner up with like another protocol, which does the borrowing and lending for us.
And then we can focus on like the next Elon Musk trillion market and like the future.
We also thought about like, as you can do with perpetual trading, that you have like perpetual markets, which like never end or stuff.
Like we have so many ideas, which could be like amazing.
And yeah, so
but yeah, let's see.
Let's go. No, it makes a ton of sense too. It makes a ton of sense.
And let's make prediction markets
freaking awesome on Aftas so that people are looking to build on top of
Panana or come over and build that borrow land aspect
to integrate within the Aptos ecosystem.
So that's super exciting.
I think this is a great first step
and also a clear differentiator
within at least the Aptos marketplace,
the market of prediction markets.
I think there's a huge opportunity
to steal at least a portion of the mindshare.
If word can really get out about the self-custody of these positions
and what you are able to do with them,
I think that will interest a large portion of people
interacting with prediction markets in other ecosystems.
Not to mention, if you're playing on Polymarket,
like, there's definitely going to be arbitrage opportunities
coming to Aptos and playing around with Panana
and the other prediction marketplaces in our ecosystem.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I think it's, like, also big value to the people just using prediction markets
for arbitrage. I think they are way less exploited than traditional DeFi markets or tokens. So
always keep an eye open. I think you will always find some good arbitrage opportunities in prediction
markets. Give it time. Give it time.
Wherever there's an arbitrage opportunity,
I feel like people will find it,
and it will then become the next arbitrage opportunity.
Yeah.
100%.
Brent, with the hand.
I just wanted to double check on the URL that the ecosystem event should link to app.banana-predictions.xyz.
Nah, this still works and we'll keep this domain, but it's way too complicated.
So the new domain is just panana.fun.
So let's go.
Let's go.
I love that.
That's way easier.
Or like app.panana.fun for the app.
So the normal panana.fun is the landing page,
but the app.panana.fun is the app.
Dot fun.
Dot fun.
What a good TLD there.
No one uses dot fun.
Why not?
Now you said that.
I'm like, that's brilliant.
More people should be using dot fun.
We're all trying to have fun.
Let's go.
Dot fun is so fun.
It's fun.
Let's go.
Yeah.
Penenna's making predictions fun.
I love it.
I'm here for it, actually.
Sneezy, I think you wanted to jump in, though, on
one of the last points.
I was just going to say, I think
prediction markets, to me,
seem like something
that is going
to go mainstream from Web3.
And we're already seeing it with some Web2 platforms,
but if there's one thing everybody has, it's an opinion.
And when they realize that they can bet, not bet, but put their money behind their viewpoints,
I think a lot of people are going to be tempted by that Apple.
Yeah, definitely.
I think that's also why they're like get like getting so much or much
attention lately um because everyone can participate in like in the stock market you
really have to know like what's the company about or stuff like this um and like in predictions as
you mentioned everyone has an opinion and you can just trade on that yo i wish you guys were live
last night because i saw with five minutes left in bills i don't know
if you guys watch nfl at all oh yeah yeah the baltimore game baltimore bills and i saw that
they were down by a lot it was 99.1 to 0.9 percent odds on Polymarket.
And I was like, that's crazy.
Dude, Josh Allen is definitely gonna come back and win.
And I was so excited.
I was so excited and I was like, oh man,
I don't know any like prediction markets to bet on.
And guess what?
It was like, it was the first of 270 times that they came back,
and I was pretty excited.
So let's go.
Yeah, that was wild.
I didn't watch the game, but I saw the highlights.
That was crazy.
Well, it's funny.
We were talking about predictions and, like, the fight that's happening on the weekend and just how, like, just, it's why sports betting is so popular.
You know what i mean like when you put even if it's 25
like 50 cents a dollar if you have money invested in a game it's that much more interesting and
entertaining to you this is the same thing but for everything everything. Does this mean your opinions
become stronger if you
are now putting money
behind your opinions?
I think at least it becomes more informed.
That's what I know.
Exactly. 100%.
Even if
your opinion changes, like, you getting involved, like, you putting money into it is going to get you paying more attention to it in general.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
That's something I experienced as well. So whenever I predict on Polymarket on some events or something,
yeah, I always follow the news because if something changes,
I really need to be up to date.
So yeah, I really know this thing pretty well.
I'm following the news.
I got to ask, how are you guys going about with like the clearing of answers,
I guess, or, you know or of the prediction of the markets
themselves?
Is there a certain format you guys are following?
I feel like that's a whole thing with Polymarket and most prediction markets.
It's like the devil's in the details when it comes to the prediction itself.
I guess, how is that going to play out for you and the team?
It sounds like you guys are going to be launching initially with like more kind of pushing out most of the
predictions and partnering with collaborators on like, you know, what those prediction markets
will be. But for the most part, you're going to be the ones like kind of controlling and inputting
the predictions themselves and pushing them out with that collaboration. Is there like a certain,
I don't know. I don't know enough about like the details of how these prediction markets are established and then the details of them,
but it does feel like they're relatively important for how you define a prediction market for the most part.
So is there anything there that you want to pull that thread on or is it just going to be standard, I guess, whatever standard may be?
whatever standard may be um yeah for for the creation um for the market creation this is
something um that we will do in the beginning um just to um yeah like keep track of it and like
test it try it out like explore a little bit um which like what works best um but um in the end
like we definitely want to make it permissionless so that anybody can
create their own markets and um like the idea for us for the permissionless markets is that
um like everybody can create a market but you need like a certain liquidity threshold to be
reached for like people to actively trade that market and um like we think that this like
ensures two things and the first thing is that um like the markets are high quality which means that
like they're well defined the resolutions well defined and stuff like this because like people
need to provide liquidity for the market to become tradable and um like the second thing is that um the um yeah like people
need to provide liquidity so we also see what are like people most interested in so it's not like
if everybody could just like create a market you would have like a million markets on the platform
but all of them have like no liquidity nobody's trading on them and like this would really suck
and like this is not a good experience for on them and like this would really suck and like
this is not a good experience for the users so like we want to have this like we have this
liquidity threshold which must be reached for market to become active and um yeah like this
is something that we will do like as one of the first things after the mainnet launch one of the
first features um after we launched is that we want to also make
like those, the market creation process permissionless or offered on the website so that everybody
can just create markets.
Okay, that's awesome though.
I think it's a good approach because yeah, I do agree.
If you just make it so anyone can just open markets, it will just be flooded with a bunch of said predictions. With the liquidity
providing, how does that work? I mean, if I was to put in, I don't know, we'll just say 50 bucks
or 100 USDC into liquidity of one of these predictions, how would that pan out for me as the
LP? I'm assuming I'm just an LP in that situation
right like you know if I see a prediction I really believe in Elon Musk is absolutely going to hit
that trillion dollar mark in the next 20 or whatever 10 years I want to put a hundred dollars
into there um like how is it basically like I earn a fee on like you're based on the stamp like
the total pool of like how much that liquidity is in there? Yeah, I don't know.
Yeah. So there are basically two ways you could participate in a market. The first one is you
can just buy shares. And in this case, you're not a liquidity provider, you're just a normal user
of the platform.
And then like the second way to contribute is as a liquidity provider.
In this case, you get like liquidity shares,
which mark your like stake in the liquidity pool.
And then like, depending on like the amount you put in,
compared to like what all the others put
into the liquidity pool, you get like a to like what all the others put into the
liquidity pool, you get like a revenue share of all the trading volume.
So it definitely makes sense to like provide liquidity early because the sooner
you get in, the more like trading happens and the more you get out of it.
So like it works similar to like, yeah,
liquidity provisioning worse than other DeFi protocols.
And I think the most important part is just to know that this is a different role.
If you just want to buy shares, you're a normal user.
But if you want to provide liquidity, that's a separate workflow.
And you don't get the shares or you don't earn anything if like one or the other answer wins
but you earn like from like the fees and providing liquidity interesting yeah so you have no risk
of providing liquidity your risk is just no additional volume is traded and then like you
know that's about it i guess no um you No, you still have a risk, definitely,
because it's also just as with other DeFi protocols,
you always have the risk of like impermanent loss.
And this impermanent loss may even become like permanent
if you like wait too long
and if the market finally resolves to yes or no.
So like you definitely need to, yeah,
or like there are like some strategies
and this is something we will also add to our docs
so that you should like, for example,
like get your liquidity out before the market resolves.
So you can like, best thing is like put in the liquidity
as early as possible and then like get your liquidity or
like, yeah, get your liquidity out before the market find results. So there's like one strategy
to do it. Okay. No, this is cool. This is cool. And I think, yeah, having that documentation is
going to be probably somehow helpful because you can see how I just immediately skipped it. Oh,
this is no risk then. I'm just, because I immediately went to the concept of, uh, man, Sneezy,
remind me who, who does this again, where you're just putting liquidity in.
Actually, Brent, you might know this too, who like you're putting liquidity in.
There's no risk. You're just like kind of playing the casino role. Like you're,
you're the house. Uh, man.
I am not, I'm not familiar with the situation where you get to be the house.
Oh man. Oh, you know what it was? I think it was cash markets. It was cash markets. That's what it was when they were building out their game.
It was. But anyway, it's been a minute with that. So maybe never mind. I will pause.
But OK. Anyway, so, yeah, it's good to know that we're getting forward with some documentation and helping helping clear up clear up what uh what the the risk is and stuff like that because i think you know
it's going to be helpful for for those that are skipping straight to that or want to want to get
involved and i think in permanent loss i don't know cv it's like a it's a mystery sometimes for
me on how impermanent work loss works so yo i was talking
to yar and baba about this the other day and like i've done it a couple times and yes i've made like
i have ended positive but like i don't like have like i don't like that I put in, like, 50% Guay, 50% Aptos, and then when I remove liquidity, I'm getting mostly Aptos back or vice versa.
You know what I mean?
Oh, yeah.
I know all too well.
talking to them i'm like the play is for me is i'm gonna start doing like apt stk apt or apt
k apt where it's an lp but stable like aptos and aptos there's no there's no loss tables and i'm
like because i don't want stables right now i want aptos yeah yeah that's true okay yeah no i mean i feel that i've literally
had that exact same situation where i'm like wait a minute uh what no all these fees are great this
is awesome where the hell did my tokens go why the hell is all of my echo just missing right now what the for me it was amy the amnest token okay yeah i got white i'm like we're in the
anyways yeah not good not good okay so in permanent loss everyone's going to be learning a little bit
and still learning it sounds like for a sneezy and i at least brent hands, jump on in. Yo, the product launch, Panana predict
has been added to ecosystem events.
I added just kind of a loose date
because it could be any time tomorrow
and I'm very excited.
I'm gonna be checking all day tomorrow.
I hope I, well, I better turn on notifications.
Duh, what am I doing?
Notifications turned on. Boom.
For banana predictions.
Congratulations.
I hope the launch was great.
I'm excited to check in on it.
Let's go.
The fans are waiting for me.
I love you guys.
Love you, Brent.
Let's go.
Thank you for joining.
Heck yeah, dude. Heck yeah. Let's go. See you for joining. Heck yeah, dude.
Heck yeah. Let's go. See you tomorrow.
Peace. Peace.
We got to ask, I mean,
we held you up for the full hour here,
but I mean, are you, you know,
maybe sneaking at least one more question
on my side, but, you know, are you able
to share a little bit about some of the predictions
that you're going to be launching with? What can we be expecting to see in the days here?
We're going for the alpha, alpha. Let's fucking go.
Yeah, sure. So what we want to cover in the beginning is like all like different verticals if you like like we want to have
like politics we want to have sports we want to have yeah like yeah like social or like
yeah social media stuff like we want to have all kinds of things so that it doesn't matter
what you're actually interested in.
If you like sports,
if you don't like sports,
that you still find a market.
If you like politics or don't like politics,
you still find a market to predict on.
And this is why we start with,
yeah, like markets for like politics.
I think one market is about like the next presidential election in the US
because I think like this was a big market last year.
And I think this will become like a huge market again.
So this is something we are starting with definitely.
But also we have like a market related to Elon Musk
or at least one market related to Elon Musk or at least one market related to Elon Musk and also do some
sports markets for like upcoming events and we also made sure that we have markets for
markets that resolve within like a day like a few days to like a few weeks a few months and then
also like within a year or something for like longer
time periods so that like you can predict and you can win like within a few days or like a day or
like if you want to predict long term you can also like do the next presidential election or stuff
let's go okay there's gonna be some activity activity on day zero I'm hyped
let's go love it love it love it love it all right well I will I'm gonna pause
on the questions for now I think that you know we've dug into all the things
that I'm super excited about Sneezy anything you want to jump into with
Aaron before we give him any kind of final closing thoughts or calls actions
for the community,
anyone listening in or listening back.
So this has been a ton of fun, and I was already excited for mainnet.
Now I'm very excited for tomorrow.
Yeah, by the way, I'm not sure.
I think tomorrow means 10th of September, so i'm not sure um because i think
you're like time zone wise if that makes a difference um yes it definitely does it is
september 8th for us tomorrow's the ninth oh okay yes sorry um yeah for me it's like tomorrow's the
10th um already oh where's bnan? Oh, okay.
I need to ping him again.
Definitely ping him because he definitely might have made that
for literally tomorrow the 9th.
That's good clarification.
Let's go.
I just noticed
tomorrow is not the same for us.
So September 10th
is like the exact date.
Cool. Okay. Okay. Well,
honestly, this has been a
blast. I'm super stoked
for you guys.
Any calls to actions or
final words or thoughts before
we kind of let you go?
Again, super grateful for you sticking with us and
hanging with us on the
full hour and everything that's going on. We could easily keep going we kind of let you go again super grateful for you sticking with us and hanging with us on the
on the full hour and everything that's going on i you know we could easily keep going for a full another hour here but um yeah i mean anything you want to mention final calls actions for
the community anyone listening or listening back or i guess uh any any final i guess words you want
to leave anyone that's listening back or in with that's around Banana?
Yeah, so I would just tell everyone
to go ahead and try it out as soon as we're live.
You can make some money and just follow us as well
to get the latest updates.
Because as I mentioned, we've planned many amazing features like yeah, permissionless markets, everyone can create a market in the future and stuff like this.
So yeah, really happy. Also like we're super happy about feedback. So if you have any ideas
to stuff like this, just like send me a message. You can join our Telegram community. And yeah, like I also want to just do a shout out
to like the people that supported us so far.
They're like, we have an ambassador group
with like amazing people.
And yeah, really happy about that as well.
And yeah, really happy to be here.
And thank you too as well for hosting the space
and having us tonight or this evening
so our pleasure thank you for joining us thanks everybody for hanging out
either listening live in the space or listening back an absolute banger. Tons of alpha. Hopefully, if you are listening back,
you're listening back while placing a prediction
on Banana Prediction.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Appreciate the heck out of you.
Aaron, thank you for coming in and hanging out with us.
Stoked for you and the team to go on Mainnet tomorrow.
Let's freaking go.
Let's move.
Let's move.'s move thank you
all right guys have a good one uh tomorrow's tuesday don't miss spookspace 12 p.m est and
taco butter tuesday 7 30 p.m est keep your eyes peeled to the main aptos account
have notifications on for all the projects that you're following
that you care about
because now is not the time to not be paying attention
there's updates every day
like tonight
finding out about banana prediction
mainnet going live tomorrow
this is what we do
we stay active
we stay alert
we have our petrol wallets ready
have a good one guys appreciate you all This is what we do. We stay active. We stay alert. We have our petrol wallets ready.
