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Aptos After Dark ep.62
Recorded: June 9, 2025 Duration: 1:34:00Space Recording
Short Summary
TAP is on the verge of launching its mainnet, introducing a second Soulbound token for Testnet participants, and establishing partnerships to enhance liquidity and grant opportunities. With a focus on innovative DeFi solutions and attractive yield incentives, TAP aims to foster growth and engagement within the Aptos ecosystem.
Full Transcription
Thank you. you It's tomorrow, we don't need a reason we decide to pray
Living in the moment, it's a motto
We gon' turn around and do a holiday
Let me see, memories, just a bright light
Come on, turn it on in the daylight
You think I was blessed, baby, just don't get the back
In the morning we be laughing, like how did that always happen?
Last night, I got things up in my home and my soul
Talked back, still in the midst of my shoes and tie
Just tellin' that I'm coming to the world
Is that I do it out again, cause I'm young and I'm foolish
Last night, I got the one in my home and my soul cause I'm young and I'm out here dancing on my own I'ma chase you with a lil' whiskey, I think I lost my phone Now I can't call up no one, told me go home, yeah so what
I'm out here dancin' on my own
I'ma name one, shodin', two, shodin', three, five
I'm on the floor, one, touchin', two, I'm touchin', three, five
I'm comin' on
The music that was black, when the set's gon' catch up back
In the morning we be laughin', like I didn't know what happened Oh I'm falling, I'm falling, I don't want to do my face to the end
I'm falling, I don't want to do my face to the end
I'm falling, I don't want to do my face to the end
I'm falling, I don't want to do my face to the end
I don't want to do my face to the end
I don't want to do my face to the end
I don't want to do my face to the end
I don't want to do my face to the end
I don't want to do my face to the end
I don't want to do my face to the end I don't want to do my face to the end I'm sorry. I got a good feeling.
Stare to these inside the solid state.
Trust me, I'm going to see.
I'm facing people on stage.
I'm going to see.
I'm going to be I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm going to be here.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. um
three I love the next feeling Three miles down to my home town And your next chance to call it out
Sunshine, I see the night I see the night I do
I can finally see you on it
I've been to the blinds I've been to the blinds
I've been to the blinds I've been to the blinds
I've been to the blinds I've been to the blinds
I've been to the blinds I've been to the blinds I've been to the blinds I've been to the blindsγγ
γγ I'm going to go to the next video. Oh I got a good feeling. what's up schmeezy i'm doing fantastic happy monday dude episode 62 excited for you now
it's going to be a jam-packed one i'm doing pretty good though how are you
doing very good yo time like i'm losing all grasp of time and reality at this point
like i got some in real life stuff going on but like up with Aptos is more than a full-time job at this point.
Yep. Yeah, it's impossible.
There's just so much cooking right now.
Aptos summer feels like if it hasn't already started, it's going to be a wild next few months.
And it's already been a crazy first half of the year.
So yeah, I'm with you.
Yeah, I look at what's projected out out for June and July and it just makes my
head spin.
Like it's got to get done between now and then for all that stuff to happen, but it's
like, bring it on.
Bring it on.
Let's freaking go.
This is your first time here.
Welcome.
Welcome to Aptos After Dark, where we discuss everything going on on Aptos joined by awesome
people and projects and protocols hosted by myself, Atreyu, and Sneezy. If you're enjoying the
vibes, the content, please throw us a like, a follow, a subscribe across any of the channels
like YouTube, Spotify, X, Instagram, TikTok, etc. All the places and spaces. Appreciate
spaces appreciate you all being here excited to jump into 62 what do we got cooking
you all being here. Excited to jump into 62. What do we got cooking?
yo as always never financial advice definitely give the space a like and a retweet
you're not going to find any financial advice though just a bunch of cool people talking about
the cool stuff going on being built on aptos if you are interested in anything we're talking about
get a petrol wallet get. It's that simple.
Tonight's going to be a busy one.
Yeah,
I think it is. I think it is.
What do we... We've got TAP going to be joining us
tonight. They're in the throes
of Testnet, Mainnet,
Imminent.
Excited to be talking to them.
Nice. Actually, we might get... Yeah. It's like Imminent, Imm nice actually we might get yeah it's like imminent
imminent we might get some alpha tonight okay uh moon shiesty and mirage should be stopping by to
join us in a little bit and i'm hoping oro is going to be joining us around the halfway mark
oh man okay yeah i knew it was going to be a packed episode but you're all in for a good one
i'm excited yeah i'm excited to talk to all these projects holy cow we got we got a stacked lineup
with tap as well with the imminent imminent main net and uh just had them on with imminent testnet
i love it yeah this is. What a freaking awesome episode.
Also, crazy, crazy times.
It feels like with Aptos, just generally speaking with everything going on right now.
So it's bullish signals all the way.
And it feels like the people coming up and speaking on this episode are going to be helping continue that.
Oh, hell yeah, dude.
We're in the super dap era now.
To quote TAPs.
I like that.
We're getting beyond that first layer of DeFi.
We're getting the second and third layers of DeFi.
With the TAPs, with the more markets.
Very, very exciting. you know what's fun i feel like
maybe i'm selfish here but i feel like i've grown with defy as on aptos
i don't know about you it's like in. It's like in the beginning when DeFi was just kicking off, I felt so new to this. And now I'm like, I'm ready, let's level up.
I remember having Panora on and then blowing our mind.
Like, what?
And here we are.
Here we are having Tap join us
and talk about all of the new innovative ways of doing
DeFi rather than what, you know, as we
initially were talking about in the beginning, in the early days.
It's fun times. Let's go.
Dude, I know we used to spend a lot more
time on analytics and stuff like
that, but if you look
at the post I pinned up top,
from June 2nd to June 8th, we had over 135k unique traders.
Shush!
I feel like we were doing, like, where that was, like, months when we started doing these spaces.
Yeah, that's kind of nuts to look at.
I agree. I definitely agree.
It's hard, it's almost, it's hard to freaking think back on those times.
135k, yeah, definitely like a month, not like a week.
That's nuts.
I found the post I wanted to pin. It was Azen's weekly recap.
I wanted to pin.
It was ASIN's weekly recap.
Okay, nice.
580k new wallets,
79.93 million total wallets.
I think we cracked 80 million,
if I'm not mistaken, today.
38.2 million transactions.
Sorry, was it 80 million total users you just had?
Yeah.
Dude, that is wild.
When we hit 100 million, I think we've got to have a little celebration.
A party?
I don't know.
Can it be a karaoke party? I don't know. Can it be a karaoke party?
If that's what we're looking for, I think so.
Yeah.
That feels like celebration to me.
I'm here for it. You hear that, Pecker?
Start planning.
Start the playlist.
Yeah, big numbers here.
This is crazy to see and look at.
KJN alone with 2 million.
I'll have to go back out there tonight and go and listen to one of our episodes from last June
when we were really heavy on the stats.
I feel like we're crushing months that we were having last year in weeks now.
Yes.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is accurate.
Pretty sure.
Pretty, pretty sure.
That's actually...
Man, we definitely have tweets with these as well
that have the roundup, I think, on some of the analytics side too.
So maybe we can go to the wayback machine of x and find that
yeah well we got tap up here if we start that conversation i'll go deep diving let's go
what's up tap welcome to the stage glad to have you up here again
hi guys how's it going
doing well fam how are you doing up here again. Hi, guys. How's it going?
Doing well, fam. How are you doing?
Oh, you know,
just trying to hang in there.
The final days of just before release are quite tiring.
Just trying to make sure every little
detail is taken care of.
Those little details keep creeping up, I imagine.
Yeah, it's surprising, you know, it's like, you just go over
everything over and over again, it's kind of like proofreading
a, you know, final submission of a paper or something like that.
From the school days, you know, read it, read it backwards,
word by word, make sure you haven't made that type of
synchronicity or something. Well, we, we got to ask, I mean, how has it, I mean, we haven't,
hasn't been that long since we've had you up here, but we love that, I guess, hear about the
progress of testnet and how, how everything kind of wrapped up as you kind of, it sounds like you're going through the final touches here
as you prepare for the next Remainnet.
I mean, anything you want to touch on about Testnet,
fun, interesting, you know, aspects of the community brought in
that you kind of worked.
I mean, I feel like you were talking a little bit about that last time too.
So I'd be curious if anything's changed
or anything new and exciting that you saw that was like, okay, let's go.
This is gonna be fun.
I don't know, anything you're open to chatting about?
Yeah, well, essentially, I mean,
there's a lot of interesting things
that happen behind the scenes
when you sort of look at how the sausage is made.
You know, like for example,
as you guys probably know, or maybe I don't know how technical the audience is, but, you know, from the beginning, Move sort of adopted
this security model where they built this engine, this development engine, right? And it has very strict constraints
for quote-unquote security reasons. And I agree, it is very secure. But the old adage is you can't
really have security and convenience. You've really got to choose one, right? So some of the constraints,
you know, were quite inconvenient to work around, specifically around dynamic dispatch. In other
words, what that really means is the concept is the ability to run code in the future that you
don't know about today when you're building it, right. So Ethereum and other blockchains have this.
You essentially can write some code and that could be like, oh, function runner or something
like this.
And you just pass it a smart contract address and what function you want to call.
And, you know, maybe you can even pass in some variables that you want to send.
And it can just go to that address and call that function,
even though that address and function may not have existed
when that smart contract was first created.
And so this is dynamic dispatch.
So Move never had that, although Move is kind of allowing that now
with the objects that have been introduced.
So when you're building a V4 Dex,
you know, we're building it with a hook-based architecture,
which means that you can dynamically change the pull
types in the future, right?
So now, how would you do that if you can't do dynamic calls?
So we've had to sort of work around it.
One of the little gotchas you know came from testnet because we
really encourage the testnet community to stress test tap in the in this last round so we essentially
gave away a second SBTSL burn token to anyone that would participate within this the stress
tests within a 48-hour window.
So in other words, if you want to participate, you have to do about 100 transactions.
And that was designed to really test the infrastructure.
And what we found there is because of the way that we encoded some of our data for this dynamic sort of workaround,
suddenly in that two-day period, we, you know,
TAP was taking about 70% or 80% of all the node storage
on Aptos on Testnet.
Like, our application accounted for 70%, 80% of disk space
on all those servers that were running Testnet.
So that's a little, you know, a fun thing to find out right before you're that we're running testnet. So that's a little fun thing to find out
right before you're going to go to mainnet.
So then we had to do some re-architecture around that.
There's some other things that were going on related
to the Cetus hack, making sure that our Spark contracts
didn't have the same vulnerabilities introduced or
found, exploited in Cetus related to overflow and underflow errors in the
industry library they were using. But yeah, other than that it's just been also a
lot of the stuff on the business side. You think it's, you know, just go out
there and code some contracts, you put it up and good things will happen.
But essentially, there's definitely partnerships, there's agreements on, you know, providing liquidity and, you know, legal agreements around that sometimes.
And, you know, all these things have to sort of come together at the same time, you know, within hours of each other.
And, you know, a big coordination job, essentially.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Definitely fun to see all the technical sides come through.
And it was, you know, shout out to you and the team to run a test like that, where you're able to get that, that, I guess you could say that stress test, that volume test to see what could happen. Because yeah, I'm sure you've, like you said,
you made some changes that otherwise could have been a more probabilistic on mainnet. So
good to have that foresight and to be pushing that forward and kind of see that through.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, for example, the dynamic dispatch problem, right?
So essentially there's an idea in Aptos called serialization.
Every coding language has it.
Aptos implements a thing called BCS.
So what they do is they take things that are written as storage on the smart contract
and they convert it to a string.
And they do this through a deterministic algorithm.
So if you give it the same data, you'll
get the same string every time, and vice versa.
So you can go back and forth between these things.
And if you make one byte change, you
make a simple change like, oh, the LP that put in some money,
they've got a little bit more of the pool now or the fee you know has gone up a little
bit or whatever the case is you know making a very small change essentially
if you take that down to a string depending on how you store your stuff
you essentially make it impossible for the aptos node node to do what's a diff.
So in other words, just change that one byte.
Well, if you can't change the one byte,
you have to restore the whole string every time.
And essentially, that becomes megabytes of data.
So every time someone does a swap in 0.13 seconds,
storing a megabyte of data becomes quite taxing
on that infrastructure.
Nice.
Okay.
That makes, I mean, yeah, it makes sense, I guess, at a super high level.
But okay, cool.
I mean, a lot of stuff has happened in the short period of time, and the business always
time and the business always sneaks up as well, just like tech.
sneaks up as well, just like tech.
Partnerships seem like quick and easy, but like you're saying,
it's when you're dealing with liquidity and all the different handshake
agreements that turn to legal agreements, it's those seemingly easy things turn
into a high coordination, high effort, and sometimes time that is hard to account
for. So makes a ton of, makes a ton of sense on that front too.
So sounds good though.
It sounds good that you got to this point though,
where you have those kind of agreements in place
and to kind of set up for the success of TAP.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I tell you, it's been a long journey.
This is one of the things that I have to really just pay attention to because it's, you know,
compared to how some people do it, you know, they have this concept of execution first
defies and there's a new thing that's coming and going around nowadays
with people talking about how you you essentially go to market with just something that works right
so something very small as small as possible let's just get into the market and then uh essentially
you iterate on on the user features later right and and that was our concept too you know we're
like oh you know we'll just build an MVP.
But as it turns out, when you're building something that has some dynamic ability and ability for people to program liquidity and these kind of things, your little MVP, quote unquote, little MVP, turns into this mountain you have to scale.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah. just mount and you have to scale, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah, so people like Hyperion,
don't get me wrong,
did an amazing job, but essentially
their DEX is
just CLAMM
pools. When I say just,
I mean, it's just one type of pool.
No dynamic thing about
it. You know what I mean? We have
the same thing. We have CLAM pools,
we have AMM pools, we have AMM pools,
we have stable swap pools with the dynamic dispatch, with the incentivization, with,
this is just the MVP, right? And so at some point you have to basically just take a hard look at
yourself in the mirror and say like, you know, we're not going to add any more features. We've got to go out with something. And, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's essentially right now.
Well, I mean, the MVP sounds like it was massive to begin with,
but doing something that was pushing the bounds of what Move can handle anyway, right?
Even that alone, regardless of taking on anything else.
So, you know, super exciting to have your guys MVP out there.
I feel like I can relate a bunch on that, too, when it comes to the you're trying to do like what's called a vertical slice just to bring something out of
your game and and push it forward so people can prove out the concept or the mechanics or of it
in general before you bring out the entirety of it those vertical slices still can can be feel
like gotchas like oh this is a lot more than you would think it would be. So definitely you can relate and understand all too well.
And shout out to you and the team for bringing in something that's like,
you know, highly innovative,
and then also keeping some of the expectations for what users want and need
right now. So it's pretty cool. Pretty cool.
And it sounds like you're quite close to mainnet.
How, how should we just say it's an easy when Mainnet or?
When Mainnet?
I'm sure he hasn't been asked that in a while.
So why not?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's first time.
Thanks, guys.
Thank you for the interest.
Yeah.
So essentially, we are very so essentially we are very close.
We are very close.
So there's a couple of things on the horizon.
When I say on the horizon, like, you know, I'm talking imminently in the next couple of days, like by the end of the week.
We're essentially first going to be issuing a second SolBound token for people that helped us with the stress testing of Testnet.
And, you know, there are some really interesting rewards for people that hold these soil bound
tokens. It's not traditional incentivization directly yet. You know, unfortunately there has to be some mainnet activity to
be able to capture your sort of advantage for helping us with testnet, but
you know there has to be some financial alignment of risk in a way. But
essentially anyone that helped with testnet will get this
SPT there will be at some later point in tap cycle a you know TGE a token
generation event that will coincide with some things that have to happen in the
in the DeFi ecosystem before it would really make sense for our reward system
to kick in.
But when that happens, when that TGE happens, and that will happen this year,
essentially anyone that helped with TEST that has this SPT in their wallet will have some definite advantage of people who did not, if you consider that you also did all the other things along the way right so
there will be seasons in our in our reward system that are related to
different goals that that tap will have as it continues its journey the first
was obviously just getting the word out and then there'll be some some things
that incentivize for for example, liquidity growth
or other seasons that will incentivize, for example, trading growth and so on before the
TGE essentially.
And if someone participated in Testnet and did also all these other, participated in
sort of the farming on these other seasons, the Testnet users will have definite bondage over those that did not participate however there's always a way
to catch up you know so it's we try to design it in a way that's very fair so
you never feel like well you know what I wasn't I wasn't in the community on day
zero so you know I just can't just can't catch up it you'll never have that
feeling because it'll always be an avenue or path to sort of level the playing field.
So anyway, that will come out probably today, I would say.
Or if it's not today, it will be tomorrow.
And then towards the end of the week, at some point, there will be an event related to mainnet.
At some point, there will be an event related to mainnet.
So let's go.
I think that's alpha.
I don't think I didn't know about the SBT.
That sounds like alpha to me.
Yeah, so, you know, the thing is, there's going to, I really do encourage all your viewers
here to check it out, because, you know, as we are launching, there's a problem with all
DEXs, which is, you know, any DeFi protocol, to be honest, which is called the cold start problem. And the cold start problem is essentially going from nothing,
zero, to something that's useful, you know.
And when it comes to trading venues,
you know, just having a tech stack that's,
even if it's really good,
doesn't matter if there's no liquidity, right?
So essentially, you have to spend some of your time
trying to attract liquidity.
And then once you do have liquidity and you've got some dApps, you know, it's amazing.
Now you've got a tech stack and you've got liquidity to trade into.
Then you obviously need to have users and then you have to have volume.
And it's like, okay, chicken and egg problem, guys.
You know, you can't get the volume without the liquidity, but you can't really get the liquidity without the volume.
So this cold start problem is really the thing that tap is focused on trying to solve other people.
But, you know, just like flying on an airplane, you know, you've got to put on your own oxygen mask first, right?
So I do encourage everyone to take a look because essentially in order to sort of get over this first hill, there
will be some very, very attractive, you know, APRs, APYs, however you want to think about
it, there will be attractive yield. And, you know, on day zero and hour one, it will be
way more attractive than let's say on on day 90 or something like this
because essentially we have to try and using economic and capital incentive
really encourage people to help us with a cold start problem so you know now is
the time to really pay attention to it if you if you're looking to sort of capitalize on yield opportunities.
Go ahead, bro.
No, no, no, you got it.
You got it.
I've been hogging the bike.
No, it's 100% you.
I carry down this path.
I want to circle back at some point to something Tap brought up earlier,
but carry on, sir.
Okay.
Sounds good.
So that sounds exciting.
I think that's a call to action.
Without a call to action, people should have that bell icon on for Tap.
If you're curious about that and you want to be part of that first hour,
24 hours, be around, be checking those notifications, be within the community
to get that juicy yield.
That's what's up.
That's actually, that makes a lot of sense.
I would love to like learn more about how you've approached it, but it sounds
like providing good APR, good APY is that kind of like thought that you're taking as far as attracting
liquidity yeah it's it's a it's a two-pronged approach so so essentially you know we we
definitely have to um account for for the initial people that will be what you know defy is called
yield farming right so it's the initial traders that are very mercenary,
that are essentially just looking for the most money
for providing liquidity and or trading volume
to a DeFi protocol.
And in the beginning,
we just have to attract people like that.
The only way to do that is through,
as I said, through yield, right?
The other approach is simply to be the best partner,
business partner for any DeFi protocol
that wants to acquire liquidity in APTA.
So if you're launching or have recently launched a DeFi protocol,
if you're launching or have recently launched a d5 protocol uh tap aims to be the best place for
you to get users get incentives sort of co-market co-brand um you know sort of do this sort of uh
points systems that are that that you know are double dipping so you know, a double dipping. So, you know, someone deposits on tab, they get tab points and they get the protocols points
or vice versa.
And really just find a community that's sticky.
So we're trying to build tools
that allow DeFi protocols to do that,
to try and solve this cold start problem for other people
and make it just an easier, gentler thing to do.
So if somebody's contemplating building a DeFi protocol on Aptos or bringing a DeFi
protocol that has established community already from another chain onto Aptos by sort of partnering
with Tab, we aim to be, like I said, the best partner to do that with, to lower the friction and the barriers in order to achieve success.
Love that. Bringing people together, helping rising tide lifts all ships. That is awesome.
I mean, do you want to talk a little bit of, I mean, you kind of did, I guess, around the co-marketing users and liquidity availability.
I guess from the developer perspective, how do you feel like that integration or that working with TAP makes it easy for other upcoming DEXs or to work or protocols, I should say, to work with TAP?
Is it like a quick process or how exactly involved or not involved is it and
then i'm going to stop asking questions in the past of the sneezy because i feel like
she you've been uh yeah i've been uh we've been going in with so much on pre on testnet and main
net i know we wanted to circle back on something so i'll pause there yeah yeah well essentially i
mean we we aim to make it as easy as possible. I will tell you right now, you know,
in terms of a product iteration, you know, we're right at the point where we're trying to launch
the product and essentially be a really good trading venue. So there hasn't been enough or
There hasn't been enough or good enough focus
on prioritizing the API layer, the SDK layer,
and sort of the tooling for developers to build on tap yet.
We do have now two or three protocols,
I think it's three now, or it will be very soon three,
that are building on tap already in terms of hooks.
In other words, building their own pool types
integrating the swap capability and other things in tap directly into their
protocols now there are different levels of integration in other words you know
there might be someone that's very very tightly integrated and there are some
partners that are talking to us about that now, where if that was true,
they would actually appear on the TAP user interface.
So you'd go to TAP Exchange,
and you would actually see that integration
in the user interface.
That's a very tight integration, right?
So we can't do that for everyone, unfortunately,
because just in the interest of time and capacity
is just not possible.
But the other integration, which is less so, because just in the interest of time and capacity is just not possible.
But the other integration, which is less so,
is just building a pool type and building that
and embedding that directly into their DeFi protocol itself.
And like I said, we have three protocols that are essentially
doing that right now.
One of them is very far along.
We'll be launching in June, right after
us, actually, like several weeks, maybe after us. And they're doing some really crazy stuff.
I mean, again, it's not for me to give away their alpha, but I will tell you, I have not
seen this concept that they're building on any blockchain anywhere yet not to
say other people aren't thinking about it there's no you know it's a it's a
small space you know parallel construction happens all the time but
I've not seen it and it's pretty exciting so they're essentially
reimagining what NFTs could be if you if you take away some of the constraints of NFTs like static curated art and no liquidity, no exit liquidity, you take those things away, what could NFTs be?
They're reimagining and building that on tap.
There's also some stuff that we're doing with like said existing protocols that are very
large when I say large I don't necessarily mean in TVL but more in
community science like we're talking about millions more than 1 million
followers or active wallets or whatever that that that participate in their
protocol that we're bringing to Aptos through TAP,
and they're building on top of TAP.
And that'll happen a little bit later.
It'll be probably in July, August timeframe.
And then there's some other innovative stuff
that's building on top of TAP right now as well,
the third project that's just starting.
But essentially, yeah, if you look at our tokenomics
and there's no reason for you to have that information unless unless we've talked to you
about arrays but essentially in our tokenomics let's talk about tokenomics no i'm just kidding
yeah yeah well just just saying that we have reserved 25% of the TAP token,
the DEX token, for a foundation that is going to have grants
and incubator and run hackathons and other things at conferences
and try to sort of educate and encourage builders to build
on top of TAP and on top of Aptos,
where we'll be using those funds to essentially give out our own grants
to attract builders on Aptos.
That's epic. Over to you, Sneezy. Over to you.
No, I love that that i absolutely love that that's something
i know ash is big on is protocols becoming successful and filling in those gaps that
right now the foundation or labs are sometimes stepping in to help with those kind of connections
but it's super bullish this is what i was talking about like the second
and third layers of d fire starting to be built on aptos and like it's really starting to become
a flourishing d5 ecosystem and i think this is exactly what ash is talking about is seeing
projects get to a point where they're able to be the ones helping new projects coming to Aptos.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, essentially, you know, and I make this joke a lot,
but it's like I feel, you know, a lot of resonance with Steve Ballmer.
Like you go to YouTube, you'll see a really obese version of him sweating, shouting, get the devs, get the devs, get the devs for Microsoft, right?
Essentially, I feel the same way about Aftos.
Like, we've got to get people to build on Aftos, essentially.
You know, I will say that's one thing.
And, like, it's going to be a slower build to do it that way.
But you've seen other high-performance L1s
incubate a lot of this stuff in-house,
whereas Aptos really has always focused on
builders building, getting devs,
and growing the builder ecosystem
it's longer but i think it's going to serve us much better in the long run
yeah look i mean essentially you know you encrypt it you've really got it
unfortunate it's a very unfortunate thing i'm about to say um but you've really got to make
a choice you're either going to be a flash in the pan.
I'm not going to necessarily call it a scam or a rug or a pump and dump or whatever the
case is, but you've talked the talk at some point,
after you've collected all the money, hope that you can actually deliver something in like 95%
plus, right? Or you've got to be the business that's built on fundamentals that is there,
the business that's built on fundamentals that is there, you know,
for a very, very long time and it's sustainable. And, you know,
you don't get the high highs, but you,
you also don't go away in the bears and it's very hard to do both in crypto.
It's always been very, very hard. And so it's, it's,
why it's unfortunate is because, you're not the flash machine, the hype person, you're essentially signing up for a very long and difficult slog.
And you never know if you're going to actually make it at the end. Yeah, I mean, essentially the trick to this whole game is to minimize that friction, to
bring really good projects and builders who care about sustainability and make it really,
really easy for them to access liquidity and incentives and rewards and community and so
That's really what we aim to do.
That was very well said.
I don't know. I can't fight the feeling that with all these dApps coming this summer to Aptos,
they have done just that. They have
built a super machine for builders to come and build the dApps of the future.
To really rethink Web3 on a scale that we've never been able, like, that's been theorized, but, like, in practicality, nobody's even close.
Nobody's even close.
And I feel like Aptos is playing a completely different game.
And when we start seeing the taps, the Aikidens, the Mirage, the Hyperions,
like when all these protocols start going live,
like you're going to really start to see the engine rev.
And I don't think it's going to be able to be ignored. Like you're already seeing start to see the engine rev and I don't think it's
gonna be able to be ignored like you're already seeing it with stables and when
you give people more options and more opportunities to do things with those
stables and they start realizing how fast and how cheap it is versus even
Solana or Tron blockchain like we're really in a good spot
yeah look i totally agree i kind of uh think of aptos as um sort of like a drag car you know it's
it's it's literally got his it's wheels spinning and there's smoke coming out the back and we're
not going anywhere right now very little forward momentum but just a little bit of traction and it is going to be on
yeah i know exactly what you mean yeah and i mean essentially you know the whole thing the whole
thing is like there's some very promising signs and you know essentially it's it's been driven by
some of some very smart decisions by the
guys that are on top of the foundation. We talked to them in New York, so the whole
leadership of TAP was in New York in February meeting with the Aptos Foundation and essentially
a lot of people say a lot of stuff, right? We've been in this business quite some time and you never can tell what's actually true when
people talk and sometimes they just say things that they hope is going to be true in the
future. But essentially, you know, one of the things that Ash said to me is he said
to me, I mean very bold words, okay, he said to me, it doesn't matter if there's a bear
market or a bull market, it's going to be a bull market on Aptos. And I'm like, okay, dude.
Sounds good. But essentially, the Aptos DeFi sort of incentive fund that they put together,
fund that they put together, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars that they're using to sort
of incentivize DeFi on Aptos this year, is creating a situation that you can already see,
you guys already alluded to in the front of the call, but essentially the DeFi, or at least the
DEX trading volume on Aptos is going through the roof. Now, it's not only setting records for, you
know, what, you know, compared to what it's done in the past, which is true, which is
absolutely true. But that's not really the key point that at least it matters to me.
What matters to me is the opposite, which is, if you compare the amount of liquidity or TVL that is in a
DEX against the trading volume on a day-by-day basis so how much how much
US dollar worth of tokens were traded within a 24-hour period Aptos is right
now at or above 100% so in other words it is 50 million dollars or i'm sorry let's take a real world
example uh 35 million dollars in the hyperion stable swap pool um there's 35 million dollars
of trading or more in a given day and that is um that does just doesn't exist on any other blockchain
right now so so that's what i'm saying about tires spinning on a drag.
Right now, you've got stables, you've got BDC-Fi, and you've got LST.
So you've got the native token staked delegated for yield.
You've got some kind of BDC play where they're wrapping BDC
and essentially getting more yield than Aptos.
And you've got a bunch of stables, and that's pretty much the whole of Aptos DeFi, to be
honest, like not to be critical, but not a lot outside of that happening.
And this trading volume of the DEX is essentially showing that if there was some other meaningful build project coming out,
like it would get a lot of traction. There's a lot of people that want to trade that are
trading back and forth on stables and this kind of stuff, a lot of money moving, you know, but not too many recipients of that enthusiasm and keenness.
So, you know, these projects that are coming out right now, like Panana in terms of prediction markets,
or, you know, some of the things like More that are doing like leverage yields and so on,
more that are doing like leverage yields and so on.
These are suddenly recipients of that trade could be recipients of that
trading action. So yeah, it's going to like,
it's going to be amazing once a couple of those projects actually launch and
have a token that, that, you know, people pay attention to.
100 i think one of those that people are going to be very excited to be trading is one of the
lfm projects i think just about everybody in the active community is farming drips
and they're doing a great job of adding to those tires smoking right now
yeah yeah look i mean this is the whole thing you know just like like for us the the cold
store problem with the decks uh you know aptos is pretty much doing the same thing in terms of
the ecosystem right so a lot of trading volume is driven through through incentives this is the
thing that ash was saying,
it's gonna be bullish on Aptos no matter what.
It doesn't matter if it's raining,
it's not raining inside Aptos, right?
Essentially.
Well, it's kind of raining in a good way.
It doesn't matter if it's a desert,
it's gonna be raining inside Aptos, how about that?
There we go, let's go.
But yeah, essentially essentially you know that the thing is is like
when people are farming those types of things like i said um if there is also a natural positive thing
that you can put your money into while you are farming it it will happen. The liquidity will flow towards you.
The flow, the trade will flow towards you, right?
So right now, in this period, which, okay, we're calling it DeFi summer, right?
In this period of summer, if you really do put out a compelling DeFi protocol,
you will see some traction for sure in this environment.
It's crazy how much it's revving right now, actually.
Would you be open?
Do you have a couple minutes if we open it up?
See if anybody in the audience has any questions.
Yeah, please.
Let's go. I see Mrs. A Rock down there. minutes if we open it up see if anybody in the audience has any questions yeah please don't go
I see Mrs. Rock down there I see TTV I see broke pecker I'm sure there's some questions
opening the floor and the mic grab it who is jumping up invites going out if anyone would like to take the mic give it a second or two i guess No, no takers today.
Wow.
Okay.
You must have done an incredible job of hyping it up and answering the dotted questions of
what everyone's got.
There's a 16-second delay.
You just needed to give them a second.
TTV's in the house.
in the house.
Okay.
Let's go.
TTV.
Hello.
Hello.
Oh, good.
I think good middle
of the night, TTV. How are you, sir?
What up?
GM, everyone, it's
great to be here.
It's 1.22am.
Quick one
for a tap.
Haven't really tried out their protocol, but I've come across a couple of tweets talking about
their soul bound NFT and I want to know how it plays pleasing me, Juru, in shaping the future right here on Aptos.
Sorry, how the cellbound token is shaping the future?
Maybe I... could you repeat that?
Did he just ask you how the cellbound token is going to change the face of Aptos?
Did he just ask you how the
sold-down token is going to change the face of Aptos?
I mean, I hope so.
Go ahead. Sorry.
Go ahead.
No, that's just Mr. Zarak.
He's just interrupting.
That's what he does.
Okay.
Well, I mean, essentially... He will have a good question you just gotta give
him some time okay i don't i don't okay well i mean in terms of the soulbound token i will tell
you that um you know there there is there is a lot uh to be said about um said about how do you go about sharing with people that help you
and support you.
There's a monetary value to people that are farming test nets for airdrops.
There is a monetary value to the protocols.
And that shouldn't be ignored right because essentially
uh number one we have to you know we have an idea about how scalability works uh but until you know some you actually put it out there and people actually use it you don't really know it's
just a theory until it happens you also get to see how people start to bot. So, for example, we're looking at how people are botting directly to the smart contract,
how people are botting directly to the API layer that we have between the front end and the back end.
That's definitely happening.
The ratio of active wallets to real users.
to real users. When I say real user, I mean a computer that has a unique IP address in
combination with a unique wallet. Essentially on Aptos, TestNet right now is something like
4x. So in other words, there's four times as many wallets as what we consider to be
real users. You also get to see if you put analytics in there, you also get to see what the bounce rate is,
how often people look at the pool page or the individual pool page versus a portfolio page
they might have versus a swap page. I know it's not real money, but it does give you an idea of,
you know, you work a hundred hours to make this really cool little feature on page X and no one gives a shit about
it. It gives you this kind of insight. And, you know, there's something to be said about that.
And a lot of times when you're building applications, generally in Web3, you know,
people will talk disparagingly about the testnet farmers they'll be like you know these
these guys just come in and they just do like the free stuff and they just you know on testnet and
and then when it gets to mainnet and real money is involved they know what have you found they're
not part of the community they don't help you and you know we just we just don't need those type of people and we just don't agree with that with tap like you know anytime that you're building something you've
got to understand that you're actually building it in a way that you're actually you know to use
a cliche standing on the on the shoulders of giants and you know you're leveraging all kinds
of things you take for granted you know it's as far you know as deep as the internet is you know, you're leveraging all kinds of things you take for granted, you know, as far, you know,
as deep as the internet is, you know, operating systems, computers that would build these type
of things. But then also the unsung mirrors, the people that are literally taking interest in your
application, and maybe they don't have a lot of money, but they have the time and effort to
go and build their own bots and figure out how things work and test when you ask them to test
and talk to you in the community channels and you know there is a monetary
value to that so so how do we actually go about you know rewarding that in some
in some meaningful way but but also not in a way that dilutes the
the value for investors are putting real capital and and we think we've done
we've tried to hit a nice balance where it you know there is there are some
value so you know essentially if you've done anything on our test that you will have an sbt and this sbt
in your wallet will give you some real advantage in the in the reward systems if you do participate
in the mainnet it will also uh you know give you a couple of um let's say quest items or tasks
in the upcoming later on this week you'll see
some quests or tasks that are exclusive to SVT holders I mean obviously you
won't see that you know those but if you are you'll see it and if you do these
tasks which will cost you no money on mainnet you'll be rewarded with a little
bit of a PT and you'll also be rewarded with some
multipliers in the drips or the points system. And then essentially every season there will be
things that you can do on tap that if you don't have an SPT you won't be able to do.
Now again we've designed it in a way that even though it does give you a leg up, if you also participate in everything else, there are ways to catch up.
So you shouldn't feel like you haven't got the SPT, you're behind the game, you're not.
But it will definitely give people that have traditionally been more modularized, you know,
some, what we feel is pretty fair compensation at the end of the day.
All right, nice.
Nice question.
And TCV, oh, it looks like you got the hand up again.
You got a follow up?
Yeah, kind of like a follow up question
because usually on Pekka's recorded space, we talk
about DeFi and how it shapes the whole narrative around.
About the whole concentrated liquidity market makers, I saw a post about positions on tap with more markets.
Is this going to be for when it goes live on mainnet
or it's currently on through the testnet feed?
Yeah, look, I mean, essentially,
there's some interesting things afoot in Aptos right now.
So Aptos is doing a lot. When I say a lot, I mean in
many fronts and a lot of stuff maybe this audience won't know about, unless you're
building on Aptos, you won't know about it. But it does have an extreme effect on some
DeFi applications. So for example, one of the things that they're doing is there's a
company, they're not new anymore, but it's sort of a new concept. I'm just
clicking on the tab right now just to get their exact name. I don't want to
misname them. Okay, is doing is they're doing
real-time monitoring of the blockchain and they do it on several on several
different blockchains okay but they've just come to Aptos.
And essentially what this real-time monitoring is doing is it is looking for what they call invariants in security.
So an invariant is like, okay, look,
you know, if someone swaps one APT for USDC
and they're getting somewhere around $4 or $5,
you know, they're calling a smart contract they're putting in these parameters you know this much is coming out there well that much is going into
their wallet right so so in that transaction you have what's called
expected behavior then you have potentially unexpected behavior this is someone that's sending you too little money,
or they don't have enough gas, or whatever the case is.
These are the negative edge cases that most people think about
and already code for.
And then there's things that are classified as weird, right?
And the weird would be, oh, they sent in one ABT,
you expect
them to get something around five dollars out and they get five million
dollars that's weird shouldn't have happened right so essentially they're
building a real-time monitoring system or they've rebuilt it they bring into
aptos they're building on aptos right now. And DeFi protocols are encouraged, quote unquote,
encouraged to integrate this into their system
so that they essentially can stop hacks from happening
before they happen or limit the economic pain that happens.
Maybe they hack one pool, but they don't they don't
hack all the others right because you you find it before that happens you stop
it so essentially this stuff that's happening in Aptos has a major effect on
DeFi as well so you know and a lot of people don't get to see that kind of stuff, so you're not building.
But yeah, I mean essentially, yeah, DeFi is going, it does change a lot of things because
essentially people care about money and they care about profit more than they care about
most things.
It's just reality.
So speculation drives adoption yeah so it
has to start you always have to start with you know is there what's in it for
me right and then once once this stuff in it for people then they they come and
then they they find the community and they stay for other reasons usually I
don't know if that answered your question sorry I was a bit of a rap They come and then they find the community and they stay for other reasons usually.
I don't know if that answered your question.
Sorry, it was a bit of a raffle there.
I think you did.
I definitely think you did.
I don't know.
CTV, I think I saw a thumbs up there.
Yeah, 100.
Okay, sick.
Nice, nice, nice.
All right. Cool, cool, cool. Let's go. Okay, sick. Nice, nice, nice. All right.
Cool, cool, cool.
Let's go.
And also, not something I feel like many people know about as far as that side of the house. So, appreciate you sharing the answer in that regard.
Mr. Zarak, we see you up here.
Do you, sir, want to jump in?
Any question or questions that you would like to uh take the floor is yours if you
do okay um can you hear me yes sir they're still clear sir okay uh first of all i would like to
apologize for you know obstructing the conversation i kind of have to do it you know it obstructing the conversation.
I kind of have to do it, you know, with my team, so, you know, I'm kind of required.
So, to be honest, I don't...
I'm going to come clean. I was sleeping and because it's late here.
So I didn't...
I think I've been in one space before order this space before and i slept off i didn't go back
so i heard a few things you know i heard so bad tokens and i know that it's like
so digital wallet how does it so bad token i know that you can transfer it to an you can only
I don't know if you can burn it
I don't know much
so the only thing I know about
tap is that
I thought it was
something that I just keep tapping
and there's something
but it sounds like
it's like a dex
I don't know
what is this but it sounds like it's like a dex. I don't know, just I'm like, but you just gave me
what's this?
What is the soulbound token?
I know that you have been talking since.
Did you just, okay, hold on.
I think that was a very
fair question
asking what a soulbound token is
and then I think he
said he thought you were a tap game
but it sounds like you're a dex.
And I love you, Mr. Zarak, but good golly.
That's actually quite funny because, you know,
there's a thing called Euphoria.
I think it's called Euphoria that's on MegaEath.
And essentially they're trying to launch a thing called,
which is a tap game, which is also a deck.
It's a trading tap game.
I don't know how the mechanic works, but it's coming out pretty soon.
I'll be watching that with a lot of curiosity because essentially, you know, if we can build an interface that lets you tap to trade on tap, we'll definitely do it.
Just a little bit lolz, you know.
But essentially what a soulbound token is,
it's actually a term that comes from gaming, right?
So in the early days of Web3 in games, there were items, right?
And like you'd go out and play the game.
I don't know, you'd kill some, let's say, a little orc or something like that, and you'd have on these
little tattered leather boots or some nonsense, and you'd pick them up off the dead body of
this orc, and you'd put them on, and now you've got these tattered boots, okay, so these are
just regular items, I suppose, and then if you killed a, the you know in one of these games obviously you killed a really really important monster they might have something on
them that is a very very high value but they don't want to ruin the economy the
game doesn't by allowing you to take it off this really high monster and then
sell it for million dollars in the marketplace, right?
So they make it soul-bound.
So in other words, if you take this item off the orc, it's on your character and you can't give it away.
You've got this amazing item, but you can't sell it.
So this concept coming into Web3, the same thing with NFTs so a sold bound token in
in terms of web 3 is an NFT that's been given to you to your account to your
wallet right that you cannot trade you cannot give it to someone else you cannot
sell it it's marking your wallet forever and only your your account and the reason why we've done
that essentially is it allows us to what's called good people gate certain
features of tap exchange so if you come to you for example the rewards page
which you guys haven't seen yet and well it'll be alive in the main that when you
come to that rewards page if you have this nfp in your account which we can check very easily and cheaply we can show you
things and give you access to certain features of the application that people who don't have it Thank you. I understand that. Another thing, you say the top exchange is a V4 non-EVM.
Oh, that's what I read. V4 non-EVM. Yeah. Yeah.
What does that mean? A V4. Right. What does that mean? V4. Right, what is it?
Yeah, that's a great question.
You know, this is an example of, like,
how you get locked into your own little echo chamber, right?
You assume everybody knows everything you know,
and you say, like, silly things like, oh, V4, Dex, right?
So essentially what it means is if you look at Dex, right,
at decentralized exchange, right? So this is on chain. This is a way, a place, a venue,
an app to trade on chain, right? And so why that's important is traditional trading places venues used to work
and still do in traditional finance and banking and stock stock market and so on they work in a
way that it's it's real time it's matching but it is almost over the counter so So it's like you'd say, look, I have an asset, I have APT,
and I want to sell it. And I'm only going to sell it for, let's say, $6. If it's not $6,
I'm not interested in selling it, right? So you've now made the statement about the price.
You say, I have 10 APT, that's the volume, and you basically list it out there for $6.
and you basically list it out there for $6.
Then later on, somebody will, as the average price moves up to the $6 point,
someone who wants to buy this ABT will see your listing,
and they will buy it, and they will automatically match against your position.
So that's how traditional finance works.
Now, that's called the club or centralized order book.
But if you bring that on chain, traditionally the chain was very slow.
So DEXs couldn't do this kind of thing.
If you think about a period where the transactions would take 15, 30 minutes,
you couldn't trade effectively this way.
So essentially what they had to do
is they had to come up with some other mechanism whereby
if somebody wanted to sell APT, for example,
and someone wanted to buy it, how do you match those things
together in a way that doesn't require people
to set prices, which is is very high frequency type of
thing in the flow network right and so the the first version of a DAX was
essentially not very successful I would say it used a constant product algorithm
but it didn't didn't really have a price-changing mechanism.
It wasn't until UNISWAB v2, so the second version, came about with what's called an
AMM, automated market maker, and they came up with an algorithm, a mathematical algorithm
that says that X, token zero, so ABC in this case, times the amount of token one that says that X, token zero, so APT in this case, times the amount
of token one that says USDC equals K. So you take the amount of APT and the amount
of USDC, you multiply them together, and it gives you a value. As long as that value stays
the same, no matter what happens inside the pool, essentially this will make sure that
people get a fair price.
So if you have 10 APT and 10 USDC, 10 times 10 is 100, someone trades APT for USDC, they
put in 5, they get 5 USDC back, now you've got 15 APT and 5 USDC.
If you times 15 times 5, you'll see it doesn't equal 100 anymore, right?
So the price would have changed in that transaction.
So essentially, when you put that 5 APT in, instead of getting 5 USDC out,
you wouldn't get 5.
You would get some other value, which would make the two of them equal to 100
if you times them together.
So that's how the pricing worked.
That's V2.
Then essentially that happened for a very long time.
And then people started to discover that if you put a lot of money into these pools,
the price moves very, very little on every trade.
But it's incredibly capital inefficient so if you put in 10 million dollars um you know
it's amazing for the price because the price doesn't move a lot when you trade
but you know maybe you only do one million dollars of trading and nine million dollars just sitting
there doing nothing right so it's not very capital efficient so then uniswap again a very
So then Uniswap again, a very leader in DEX obviously, came up with a third version, V3.
And this is the traditional CLMM or CLMM, which is concentrated liquidity.
This is what Hyperion is or Tala, the new pools in Tala.
Uniswap V3 is the default thing on Ethereum.
PancakeSwap, they all have this V3 model.
And this kind of gives you a similar thing to the order book.
You can put your liquidity at different price ranges,
but it's not like, I want to sell it for $6.02.
Not like that.
It's more like, I want to sell it between $5.80 and $7
or something like this.
And if you put your liquidity in what's called the active range,
which is the current price, you'll get higher returns. Because essentially you only get fees
for putting your money in the place where it could actually be traded. So for example,
an APT to USDC, if the price is $4.80 or something like this, if you put all your APT in at the price of $25 and that's the only place it's going to trade,
every time someone trades at $4.80 it's not touching your money, so you're not taking a risk,
so you won't get any trading fees. So in order to profit from providing liquidity you have to
put the money within that range, right? So that's v3. What v4 does, this is a new thing from Uniswap sorry long answer now but just to
be cap it off it introduces some new innovations so one of them is the ability
to for DeFi protocols to create new software which allows a DeFi protocol to
create a pool type that suits them so for example they to create a pool type that suits them. So, for example, they could create a pool type that only works if you have an NFT.
That would be a gated pool.
So you could say, oh, I'm a DeFi protocol.
All the people that are in my community have an NFT in their wallet.
I'm going to make a pool on tap that allows them to trade our DeFi protocol tokens but they can only trade it
if they have the NFT and they can code that as a hook they can publish that on tap and then
essentially if you try to trade in that pool on tap and you don't have the NFT it will fail
like they could do that or they could create you know a type of pool that allows them to essentially make a different type of price
discovery. So they could say, look, I don't want to trade based on ratio or how much liquidity
is here. I want to price it based on what CoinMarketCap thinks the price is. So they could create
an application that goes and checks the price of CoinMarketCap. And if you trade against that
token, it's going to give you the coin market cap.
That's called a custom Oracle hook.
There's some people that are essentially building,
like I said, NFT-based trading on a DEX,
which you've never seen before anywhere else.
Believe me, it's going to blow your mind when you see it.
And another thing.
So that's one of the things that's happening in B4.
And then the other one is essentially before every pool had its own smart contract.
So if you had APT to USDC, it would have its own smart contract.
And there would be a router in front, obviously, but it would exist as its own entity.
And people would put money, liquidity liquidity and TVL into this smart contract
And essentially that means that if you want to do what's called smart order routing
So if someone says I want to go from APT to USDC
Now you want to consider okay, you know what if we go through these six different pools
We can get the best price, right?
If you want to do that in the old system you
would have to trade on pool one get the the funds out of this individual smart
contract send that those funds to pool to get the funds out of that send that
to pool three and so on so forth and and that and that incurs a lot of gas and
time and so on so forth with with tap was before all the money all the crypto in
the entire decks are sitting in one vault and all the pools are essentially
just keeping an accounting of what is owed to them and owed to their the LP
their liquidity providers so if you trade into tab and it goes across seven
or eight pools essentially some money comes in after it calls all these different pools it just tells them hey
give that user this much money out and then just takes it out the vault and
gives it so there's the actual crypto isn't moving around well it's just the
accounting that's how there's a lot more efficient but it also allows people like
more markets to be able to work with us
to produce things that is you know not possible in other decks for example you
could have a hundred dollars at one market and provide a thousand dollars
of liquidity in tap which is called leverage liquidity and that just simply
wouldn't be possible or as easy without B4, singleton pattern.
So this is why it's called V4.
It's the fourth iteration of like innovation
in Dex technology.
Okay, so what I got from what you said is that Dex,
the main aim is to reduce snippage time, right?
That's the amount you get from the amount you're supposed to get.
So the first version of the talk, we said AMM, which focused more on, like,
they found out that you need more liquidity inside to reduce the slippage.
Then you said CA, LAM, that's a concentrated, that's a,
they put more money in the price range kind of to give the
illusion that there's more liquidity there um they talked about the c4 that we talked about
the introduction of hooks here which i saw something about within when they talked about
the dfa token the the problem it's in a question i have with the hooks the hooks is like it i think
customized like uh uh code inside wouldn't that cost more um i don't know gas fees in a way
and i just might think i don't have good understanding of that but yeah yeah so is it
cost more costly i guess um to be honest, it can be. It depends on how they
code the hooks. Like the first three hooks that are being deployed with TAP are ones that we've
coded ourselves, which implement the V2, the AMM, the CLMM, and another type of tool called StableSwap, which is invented by Curve.
So we've coded that ourselves, but anyone could code a book.
And essentially, depending on how the code is written, it could be more costly than gas.
But I will just say, just to sort of alleviate your fear, when it comes to Aptos specifically,
the gas is very cheap.
It's extremely cheap.
So it's like, if you, you know,
every blockchain has got a, what they call a compute budget.
So if you write a smart contract that does work, right,
does this algorithm or whatever,
it's got some code inside,
there's only a certain amount of time that that smart contract can run.
There's a maximum amount of time.
You can't have something that might run a week.
It's got to end in milliseconds, right?
And so there's a maximum amount of CPU
that a smart country can use.
And in Aptos, if you max out, so right at the maximum,
that's the most amount of gas, compute gas, you're going to be able to pay.
I think the cost for the transaction is, I don't know, it's like 0.0001 Aptos.
That's like 0.0001 app plus, that's a map.
So I do think you could find ways to be very inefficient on a hook
and have 3x, 5x, 10x the amount of gas
you should have or something in a transaction,
but the actual end result, pragmatic end result
to an end user might be less than one cent or one cent,
that's an impact. So we don't really think it's too big of an issue.
Thank you. Thank you. That actually makes sense. The way you design the hook, if it's less complex,
if it's less complex not more gas fees it will take much gas fees then providing a liquidity
i understand how it is in like the v1 v2 you know and you choose a price range you
i don't understand how it works in v4 because you said each pool you can um write a different
Because you said each pool, you can write a different,
what do you say, a different hook,
or I think a different code for each pool,
so each pool can do different things.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So essentially there's two types of integrations with Tab.
The first type of integration is just you build the hook
and it's a type of pool that you have access to as a DeFi protocol,
but is not present on the TAP interface. So if a user was to go to TAP to swap,
they wouldn't be able to swap into those pools because they're not integrated in the UI.
So this is the easiest type of integration because it means you just have to code a swap and add a
remove liquidity function and a claim fees function. It's just four functions and essentially
put in your own logic on how the pricing and the accounting is going to work in these four
functions and then essentially you now have a custom pool type on tap, right? It's very, very easy to do.
And essentially, and then you just embed that directly
into your own DeFi protocol, essentially.
So why would people do that?
Well, okay, if you do that,
you essentially have got access to TAP's reward system.
So what that means is if people interact with your DeFi
protocol they're interacting with a pool on tap which means that that interaction
gets points it gets airdrop it gets incentivization from the from the Aptos
foundation it gets all these things that tap gets as a protocol and and it
essentially it gets you know a fraction of that obviously because
it's proportional but that goes to your pools even though it doesn't appear on the tap interface.
So suddenly by building on tap you can double dip in your rewards.
And if you work with us we will co-market you and we'll make it much more obvious and
so on.
The second part of that which is the co-marketing part,
is that we aim, obviously, to build as big of a community as possible of TAP.
And if you build on top of TAP Hooks, we're going to promote you a lot.
I caught myself.
I'm sorry.
We'll promote you a lot and promote you to the TAP community.
And that will give you access to the liquidity that's in TAP, which most other protocols will have.
But, so these are the tangible benefits. Now if you go to the second type of integration,
which is it appears on the TAP interface. So in other words, when people go to TAP and they can swap,
they can swap directly into a pool
that this DeFi protocol has created.
They can also create a new pool with a different pair,
and it could be a different type of pool type.
They can add their liquidity into this pool type.
Then the UI on TAP will have integrated the DeFi protocol stuff as well which would obviously
give you much more benefits for it also if you're left the other advantage just to tap it off is
that anyone that provides liquidity in tap will get an NFT which is an LP position, a liquidity position, and that LP will be able to be used in a lot of
TAP related things that are coming down the pipe. For example, one of them is perp and
option. So if you have a position, even if it's in a hook that we didn't provide from
another DeFi protocol, if you have some liquidity in that custom pool that they built, you'll be able to take
that liquidity and use it as collateral to trade pervs or auctions, which no other DEX
is capable of doing.
So there are real benefits to integrate much more with that.
Wow.
That sounds kind of cute to see how it works.
But I don't think much of the time.
Thank you for asking me a few questions I have.
Yeah, I appreciate you, man.
Very good questions.
And don't worry about your curiosity.
You won't have to wait long.
It's coming real soon.
Oh. So in a pool, right, the amount in each, you know,
is like in a pool is a pair now, like APT slash USDT.
It will have to be the same amount in the pool.
Like the amount of APT in USDT,
they have to be the same in the pool.
No. I don't know if I'm asking the question yeah no it depends it depends on the pool type um so so on clm you can you can put in one
side of liquidity so in other words you could you could put just apt into an apt um on on stable swap
on the curve one that we've implemented essentially you can put up to eight
tokens it can it can take eight different coins in the same pool so you could have USDC USDT you
know mod I believe is tolerance stable you could do USDC E it's coming from FINA or other places, right?
And you can put them all in one big pool
and essentially swap between them
in a very, very efficient way.
And definitely there wouldn't be an even balance
of those tokens even though they would be at the same value.
So it just depends on the pool type,
if that's true or not.
But yes, there would have to be some pricing mechanism
and some accounting mechanism.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Let's go. Thank you, Mr. Zarak, coming up with the questions.
Awesome. Awesome.
All right. Well, we're reaching the hour. I guess we'll, you know,
open the floor tap. And if you would like to jump in with any final calls to actions or
any thoughts or anything you want to leave today, the audience with anyone listening back
with four call to actions or final statements,
whatever you may want to throw out there
for those that are listening to the very end.
Now would be a great time.
I think you've kind of scattered throughout this episode
a bunch of great call to actions,
a lot of alpha too.
So anything you would like to leave with,
you know, the floor is yours, sir.
Appreciate your time so very much for what you know, the floor is yours, sir. Appreciate your time. So very much for, uh,
for the, what you've spent with us this up to this point.
Yeah. Look, I appreciate you guys really, I do. And, you know, um,
essentially my, there's just two things I'd like to say. The first is, you know, if you, if you haven't used tab, uh, intestinate, that's okay. No, no big deal.
Um, come and, come and check it out in mainnet
it's gonna be awesome guys and the last thing I'm gonna say is like you know we you know we try our
best and and I think it's an aspiration of most builders maybe but we really do try our best to
to get a pulse on what is happening with people who are using the application.
We did have a Google form during testnet that, you know, if you found any bugs or weirdness or you had any suggestions, you could fill it in.
We got a lot of suggestions, a lot.
It took some people dedicated to that to essentially sort through
it um but yeah i mean the community is only as good as as the people who are participating in
the community right i mean i know that's an obvious thing to say but um you know if you have
any ideas about d5 protocols what's missing in community, trading tools, how we could be better,
how, you know, even crazy ideas about, you know, what if, you know, you took this thing and you
added it to a prediction market and you made it into a trivia game and then you added, you know,
you know, a tinfoil hat on top or whatever the case is. We'd love to hear from you guys. We will
have an incubator later on in a couple of months.
We will have a program to give out grants to build on Aptos directly from TAP.
So please don't be a stranger.
Come to our social places, Telegram.
In the future, there will be a Discord as well.
And just share the ideas and try to help everybody in the community get better.
And, you know, if there's a good idea, even if there's an idea that we don't think is good,
but you're willing to put in the time and effort, we will support you.
And, you know, we'll try to make the changes to our own protocol that matches the needs.
So please don't be a stranger.
Come and reach out, okay?
Appreciate the idea got you.
Amazing final words and get excited everyone for mainnet. Stoked to say the least. Can't wait to get in and notifications on. Just throwing that there, as was mentioned earlier in the episode
for the first hour in the beginning, but really do appreciate you coming up and hanging out with
us for all this time. It's been an honor and really excited for the next chapter of TAP and
what you guys got cooking and coming up. Any final words from your side, Sneezy? I know we
think we're going to be wrapping up a little bit earlier today,
but honestly, this was an amazing jam-packed episode with Alpha and interesting questions and discussion too,
so I'm stoked about it personally.
I can't thank you enough for hanging out with us for the full hour and a half.
Super excited for eminent mainnet.
Super excited for Eminent Mainnet.
And yeah, just thank you for sharing so much Alpha
and answering questions of Atreyu's and myself
and Mr. Zarak, TTV.
Yeah, just thank you to everybody.
You guys know the drill.
You guys know the drill.
No, but seriously, 62 episodes in the book.
Thank you to everybody hanging out.
We will see you tomorrow at 12 p.m. EST for Spookspace.
And then we've got Taco Butt at Tuesday.
And then right into Wednesday with Coffee.
I forget the name of their space.
They have a witty space, though.
But the Coffee Space and then Waffle Wednesday.
Heck yeah.
We'll see you guys around.
Yo, shout out to everybody who was in the collective call today too.
That was epic.
Loved seeing all the posts.
Everybody repping.
Amazing.
So much to come.
Aptos.
Global trading engine looking good.
Global community engine looking good.
We're ready to rock.
Have a good week, guys.
