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Aptos Con ⚫️
Recorded: April 24, 2025 Duration: 4:07:24Space Recording
Short Summary
Aptos is witnessing a surge in growth and partnerships, with new token launches and fundraising efforts aimed at enhancing its ecosystem. The focus on yield opportunities and hiring reflects a positive trend towards utility and real-world applications in the crypto space.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Can you see me? Oh, my God. Oh Something's just unresable
You caught me wondering why I change
Oh, I don't look the same
Why I think so differently now
Why I think so differently now
Why I think so differently now
Differently now Differently now I'm gonna change I'm gonna feel this way forever are you gonna be around me I Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, Hold your tie, squeeze you right, tell you what I want. Put me in your bedroom and I'll sing a little song.
Hold your tie, squeeze you right, give you all of God.
See you in the morning, over coffee, we'll talk.
Is it ever gonna change?
Am I gonna feel this way forever?
Are you gonna be around for me to count on you Yo, yo, yo, GM, GM, you know why Pukes sound excited?
Because, man, finally, after time and time planning and wanting to do this,
and time planning and wanting to do this,
we finally found a great moment to do this, right?
to do this, right?
Timeline is buzzing.
Been to tons of Aptos event this year
and just being able to do AptosCon,
you know, getting four segments in.
So guys, this is going to be a ride.
If you want to get your food,
hurry up, get your food,
get your coffee,
go to the toilet
because the next four hours,
you need to pay attention.
We created four different segments bringing all of the top people to the spaces just to
vibe together and talk about Aptos.
And next week is already going to be Token Dubai.
So, man, I feel like the time is just right because this is a great, great segment.
But before we get into all of the spicy takes that we have guys like retreat the
space let's get more people onto the space because we're talking about some massive stuff here shout
out to luke for you know organizing this and get some of the people from aptos here on stages as
well first off i gotta check in with luke my man my buddy from singapore lu, GM, how you doing, bro? Yo, GM, GM.
It's good to see everyone here.
We've got like 460 people now.
It's really crazy to see.
And I'm sure a lot more people will be joining soon.
Yeah, the vibes are great.
It's nice working with PukedCast again.
They are awesome folks in APEC.
And I think it's got an exciting itinerary for the rest of the show.
Got it, got it.
I think, like, it's just exciting to see when you post up, you know,
it's going to be a mixture of the PewCast crowd together with a lot of people.
And I know, like, for one thing, we've been doing so many spaces.
You know the team is vibrant or you know that the ecosystem is vibrant.
When you get a lot of people retweeting it
and commenting on the main post
and saying,
hey, I'll be here.
I'll be here.
Definitely going to show up.
I think those are bullish sentiment.
Okay.
I see Ash,
you being brought down to the speaker again,
to listeners.
So Ash checking in,
if you can speak,
if not,
just click on the request button
and I will bring you up on spaces. Man, Ash checking in, if you can speak. If not, just click on the request button and I will
bring you up on Spaces.
Man, these days, Spaces is a little bit
buggy. So, is it
me or Ash is on
the listeners right now?
I think it's on the listeners, but it'll probably
come up soon.
Alright, got it. Man, look,
are you excited for
Dubai? What's some of the plans? Tell me, tell me. Man, look, are you excited for Dubai?
What's some of the plans?
Tell me, tell me.
Yeah, Dubai is actually really heating up.
I think we've been getting a lot of requests
from builders and community members as well.
We have a couple of events there.
A few folks, Ash included, is going to be there
representing the Aptos team.
And yeah, just feel free to reach out and hit us up on Twitter or Telegram, whichever works.
If you're in Dubai, I think we're looking for the best and brightest builders.
And yeah, I think it's going to be an exciting time.
All right. Got it. Ash is up on stage. Ash, how are you doing?
GM, GM. What's up, everyone?
Good for you to be here, man. I think this is the first time we get you up on the stage. This is my first time and I got my sneakers on
because I know it's a marathon. Just want to check, like, which region are you at? Because I
know, look, it's like, dude, some of the people, it's like 5's like 5am for them. So, need to know which time zone you're at, man.
I'm good.
We don't sleep here in New York.
You know that.
New York time zone, man, it's wild.
Have you already gotten your first cup of coffee, bro?
Nah, man.
I was waiting in line, but then I was like, yo, I gotta get out of here and get on the space.
But I'm looking at it right now, so I'll grab one.
I'm good though
i'm running on pure regenerate and enjoy man i think like before we even talk about you know
all the exciting updates i think this year is really you know a lot of ecosystems are coming
out and just to see man just the timeline sentiment of people saying, hey, it's Aptos season, it's Aptos April.
Like, tell me more, you know, this whole year
feels like all of a sudden there's so much things
happening on your end.
How crazy it is, you know, Q1 ended in a flash
and then now it's already Q2.
Did time just pass you by or you feel like
it's a marathon, man?
It's such an interesting question.
I feel like every quarter in crypto is like a year anywhere else.
You know what I mean?
So, yeah, it's Q2, but it feels like the second year of what we're trying to do,
like since we started talking about the vision for the future this year.
But it's crazy.
I think we're very keen on a few areas of Aptos to be super
focused on. And I think, you know, being a generalized blockchain, you know, that can
really do anything. Your blessing is that you're flexible, but your curse is that you're not able
to break through in the market to direct people where they should be building. And so this year,
I think we've changed that. And we are really focused on making the Aptos network the global
trading engine. And all that really means is we're the fastest, most performant L1 in the market.
We were built for high throughput use cases and high frequency use cases.
And where better to use that technology than on trading of any asset, crypto native or
non-crypto native.
And so we're very excited for the ecosystem, as well as the foundation and the community
to start to help builders, founders to build great products in service of this overall goal.
So we're very excited.
We have a strong and mighty DeFi ecosystem already.
Super excited for them to accelerate efforts there
and also bring on new folks who have great ideas.
Yeah, man.
I think if you get your friends you um and all of them are in
crypto and you hear maybe five friends three of them are talking about aptos you know that
definitely it's a vibe right i'm in malaysia dude i'm in malaysia and you know builders around me
it's all building on aptos and i was like man this is something that you you see you follow the
market in, right?
And talking about, you know, community, like, how would you describe?
Like, in your mind, when someone says, hey, man, tell me a little bit about Aptos community, how would you describe that?
I think it's just one person's opinion.
I certainly am not the definition of how I would describe it.
But what I've observed is the community on Aptos is a very loyal and dedicated
community who fell in love with the technology. And I think that's a very pure origin and starting
point because they followed the project since 2018 when Meta was about to launch a blockchain
in Libra. They followed the project since it left. They played around with the docs. They played
around with the tech. They played around with the tech.
They maybe met someone who was affiliated with Aptos or worked with Aptos and built a relationship at one of the events we've done over the course of the last three years.
And it's just people who really believe in the core underlying technology. It's time for the Aptos network and its components to start to bring and make community the first foot out the door in terms of how we take things to market, how we communicate, how we drop alpha and everything, and also how we listen.
Because, you know, I'm a big believer in tech, right?
I think in this space, a lot of people, at least this last cycle, kind of like, ah, tech doesn't matter, man.
It's just about this, this and this. But you see, you wait. You see what happens. in this space a lot of people at least this last cycle kind of like ah tech doesn't matter man it's
just about this this and this but you see you wait you see what happens when market cycles go up and
down those companies don't last and we're we're here and so now it's for us to like also wear the
other shoe and be community first so that's how i would describe the community and also how we want to support moving forward.
Yeah, 100%. We've been through multiple cycles and you see, I would say, a project that is only built on the hype.
You get so much attention and yet without any proper utility, without any proper products or use case, the hype just died down. And it's like, man, within one month, which is, you know, such a long time,
you could see just the rise and dumb of, you know, so many projects out in the space.
So I think what you say matters the most.
End of the day, it's, you know, what's our utility?
What's our use case?
And from the way I'm looking at the market this year,
I see there's a shift of people finding real use case in terms of products.
And I think that is good for the space, right?
So awesome, awesome take.
I want to check in with Poi.
I know Poi or Poon woke up 5 a.m. to join the space.
So I know a little bit wonky, but checking in, how are you doing?
Chie, I'm happy to be here.
Like Ash, crypto is 24-7. Not a whole lot of sleep, but happy to support. I mean, what a marathon. I'm seeing, what, 500 plus people, some of our great community managers. We have our community team. I see some stars like Dr. Elcista, who's doing an Aptos giveaway for April. He's online. I see some of our newer members.
April. He's online. I see some of our newer members, Linda, who's been doing some great
videos for us. So just happy to be here, see familiar faces, meet new ones. So yeah, hello all.
Yep, got it. I mean, this is just vibes. Hanging out on Twitter spaces. And then next week,
we all meet in real life in Dubai. I think like this is the best way to communicate with people. All right, time for some interesting questions. Back to Ash. You know, I think some of our audience
that tune in, maybe they do not know or maybe delve into what Aptos is all about, right? So
how would you describe to someone that came to you and said, hey man, tell me about Aptos. Give
me like a 30 seconds pitch. Like what would some of the keywords or things that you and say, hey man, tell me about Aptos, give me a 30 seconds pitch. What would some of the keywords or things that you would say that you would gain their
interest and be like, man, I got a bill on this ecosystem?
What I usually say is Aptos is the blockchain that Meta wanted.
That's its origin.
That's what it was built for.
It was built for scale, security, speed.
And its whole purpose was to support billions of users and trillions of transactions to send value across the world.
That's how it needed to be built.
The beauty now for the industry is it's no longer just Meta's project.
It's out there for anyone to use.
And so the people that we're really going after,
especially at this juncture in the industry, is real world applications. You know, I think we've
seen a ton of experimentation in Web3. We've seen a ton of cycles of use cases, and very few have
lasted multiple cycles. And so what we're really focused on
is for any asset to come on chain
and be able to be traded
on the most performant blockchain in the world.
We're looking for people to build real world applications
that helps people send money to anywhere in the world
with minimal, minimal, minimal fees near zero fees.
And we're also looking for people
who want to
build billion user applications natively on chain whether it's through streaming or other verticals
and so we're ready for that next level of great mainstream adoption um and i think it's important
to note that who we are competing for in terms of founders, builders, innovators, we're not competing with other chains.
We're competing with AI.
We're competing with the Internet of Things.
We're competing with biosciences.
We're competing with large industries.
And we want the next great founder to say, I want to do what I do
on chain
and now it's ready.
That's my 30 second pitch.
Got it.
Man,
I don't know.
Ash,
I feel like day in, day out
you've been
non-stop pitching Aptos
so that elevator pitch
was just perfect, bro.
Like,
you gotta be honest,
the time you go to bed
and you wake up,
is it Aptos in your mind 24-7?
Of course. And obviously, you know, you should talk to my wife about that. She'll tell you.
Man, I feel like if you keep on doing something, even in your dreams, bro, you dream about Aptos, right?
I mean, how lucky are we? You know, it's not just,
I'm sure I'm not the only one, you know, we get to work in an industry that is so experimental and so always on, you know, I think all of us are super lucky to get to do this. And I don't know,
I got friends that do other shit, you know, uh, I come from a family of doctors and that's super
cool. But when they check out of work, they don't want to talk about work, you know? i come from a family of doctors and that's super cool but when they check
out of work they don't want to talk about work you know and so for me i think that's a healthy
sign that i'm always kind of interested in talking about not i don't even call it work play you know
um and so that's that's a true privilege i would say i see multiple people when i say that they
dream about aptptos,
they just give up the emojis.
And you know, for a fact,
these are the people that has been going to sleep
and having good dreams about Aptos.
But what you say is so true.
Me and my friends, we gather out,
we are all in Web3,
and it's like, all right, guys,
let's just touch grass over the weekend.
Let's not talk about work.
Let's not talk about Web3.
But end of the day, you know, when we all hang out,
we're just talking about Web3, talking about interest.
And it keeps us alive, right?
And it's just so much stuff to talk about.
All right.
I do want to get into, you know,
some of the things that you said earlier
in terms of, you know, building,
I would say, a railroad utility.
And I believe that when you want to build railroad utilities, it's always going to be, you know, efforts of grassroots, I would say, a railroad utility. And I believe that when you want to build railroad utilities,
it's always going to be efforts of grassroots,
like hackathons, going into Web2 events,
and also building out, targeting each individual country.
And over the past few months or even years,
I've been seeing a lot of activities are really coming out from Asia.
I think Aptos India, we did the spaces together with them. I've been seeing a lot of activities are really coming out from Asia, right?
You know, I think Aptos India, we did the spaces together with them.
The community is just vibrant, you know, in Malaysia, in Singapore.
So maybe you could share a little bit, like, what is the Southeast Asia vision for you guys?
And do you believe, like, hey, man, the next good product or even the next wave of Web2 people coming in? We'll start from Asia.
Love to get your thought.
Yeah, it's a great question.
I mean, firstly, I think it's fascinating that, you know,
we've all kind of invested our lives in these permissionless networks
where your identity, your real world identity doesn't need to be known.
doesn't need to be known. You can have a separate identity and we can all kind of co-mingle.
You can have a separate identity and we can all kind of co-mingle.
But even as an element to that, it is all grassroots to find the next great founder
or community that can take the whole industry forward. And I think the first element of that
is being in the hubs where there's tons of intellectual capital and hunger to make change
in this industry. And I think Southeast Asia as a whole
is obviously at the center point of that.
And so the way I look at it is not so much
as a Southeast Asian region.
I look at these hubs and think about the builders
and what they're interested in building
specifically within those areas.
You know, India, for example, what I've observed is
there's a great migration of people
who worked at Web2 companies who, you know, maybe did e-commerce who are now going to Web3,
but still have the same idea around user experience, mass distribution, amazing marketing,
so that their users don't have to go through all of the hoops
to interact with Web3. It just works for them. So, you know, we're seeing founders from India
who really are thinking about consumer tech from a broad distribution perspective. You know,
in other areas, obviously, like Singapore and Vietnam, we're seeing tons of work around DeFi,
which is amazing.
And there's tons of innovation to be done around that.
So I think each region is kind of separate on its own
in terms of where the culture is, what specific thesis they have.
And I think the most important way to tap into that
is having boots on the ground and really being there to serve.
Man, I'm excited because like
obviously i'm from asia and seeing you know all of the focus happening like last year i know it was
busy since june right and then it's like every month or every two three weeks there's event in
asia this year alone you know in february itself um there's already consensus and then there's just
like full event year out so So I've been seeing more and
more events are happening in Asia
and especially people that
invested in countries
in Asia, like for example, Aptos in
India. After being there for
one year, two years, three years, you guys
really get the biggest crowd
there. So I think that was
a good oversight from you guys as well,
right? In terms of, hey, these are the country.
Shout out to Naresh, man. Shout out to Naresh.
Yep.
Shout out to him, man. I think
looking back
and seeing how all of these
communities are vibrant
now, and you really put
your foot there and build up the community,
I think those are just things that
you can't build based on just hype, right? It's going to be, hey man, people believe that the chain is not,
hey, you know, it's going on testnet, it's going on mainnet, let's hop on the hype and build
something. But these are chains that has already been out there and people are coming in because
it's good. So, you know, this year itself, besides India, Singapore, Vietnam and stuff like that,
what are some of, I would say,
the new strategies that you guys
are wanting to do? Because I saw
partnering up with
Japan for this conference that
runs for, what, three months?
And these are, I would say, stuff
that doesn't build hype on X,
but in terms of the local country
and people understanding or knowing the
brand is building great impact.
So is there more, you know, this kind of activation that we could see in the near future?
Absolutely. I think, you know, it's interesting.
I was talking to someone who manages a very successful online casino product.
And they were talking about kind of the types of users they have because i
was asking you know are they on twitter well they're like no they're not on twitter there's
these huge whales though that spend a lot of money to have fun online you know and i think that those
pockets of people exist everywhere so i feel like there's a whole kind of market where people are
obsessed with crypto, maybe obsessed with
things that we don't readily talk about on crypto Twitter all the time. That is key to tap into. So
I think we're definitely looking holistically around how we expand into more crypto native
behavior that might not be as evident on crypto Twitter from a signal or awareness perspective.
evident on crypto Twitter from a signal or awareness perspective. In terms of where we've
we're excited about building additional kind of footprints or let's say satellite partners who
can help onboard the local community of founders and builders you know we're very excited with
Movemaker which we've just partnered with in Hong Kong to help tap into the deep, deep, deep talent bench in mainland China
and Hong Kong to build on Aptos. That's been extremely exciting. And we want to kind of do
that in a few areas. Obviously, in the Philippines, we've just partnered with Haraya Network to go and
do a very similar thing. And so I see this opportunity where, you know,
the Aptos Foundation doesn't need to be everywhere
in the sense of, hey, you know,
here's an Aptos Foundation representative,
but we want to work with leaders in each community
to represent Aptos and help founders navigate and succeed.
And so that's what I'm really excited for
is to, in these markets with deep talent pools,
right, especially crypto native talent pools, how do we work with the right partner who has the
culture, who can then also go in onboard and we can empower them and they can empower us in the
same way. So we're excited to take that model into these hotspot regions, especially in Asia, which is a big term, which is super exciting.
Got it.
What you say is 100% true, man.
Like, if you just notice, not everything happens on X timeline, right?
There's so much community out there that don't even use Discord.
For example, when you're talking about China, you know, people of the crypto native people are purely on VChat.
If you talk about Korea, they're online, they're on KakaoTalk.
Thailand, they're on, you know, different apps as well.
And so I think like there's a huge untapped regions in Asia that, you know, there's tons of users.
It's just that they are not maybe on X or they are not a content creator.
So that is an interesting take.
But talking about, you know, targeting all of these people, you know, as you look into
the market, where are we shifting to?
Because, you know, I came into the space from NFTs and it moves on to gaming.
It moves on to AI.
And then right now, you know, there's so much narrative and people saying, hey, you know,
we titled, you know, the third so much narrative and people saying, hey, you know, we titled, you know,
the third and fourth segment
DeFi Summer, right?
Because a lot of people
are talking about,
hey,
DeFi end of the day
provides the best utility
and we are heading over to there.
based on,
you know,
you talking to projects,
talking to people,
attending all of these
different conferences
around the world,
where do you see,
you know,
what are some of the narrative
I would say in 2025
that you'd be like, hey, you know, is it AI? Is it, you know, let me know, man.
Yeah, it's a really good question. I mean, on the topic of AI, I think of it as a horizontal
principle of how to do other things better. But there are things within AI that are super interesting on just an infrastructure, how models, evals, and executions work that are interesting that blockchains can empower. and you want to go see which elements of Claude or which elements of OpenAI or GroK work best,
you can actually tap into decentralized networks
to look at the eval and execution
of each of these models concurrently.
And you can start to select code
and start to hone your own localized model
that could run on a decentralized network,
which is super fascinating because you actually think we're submitting all of this information to these centralized entities with no transparency
of how they're using this. And also, you might want something hyper-localized for you that isn't
taking in huge macro data sets that are kind of obfuscating what you actually needed to do.
So I think there's tons of wood to chop with AI,
but also what I want to see is how AI enables better trading experiences
or DeFi experiences.
And so that's what's really keen and interesting
because at the end of the day,
that sector has had one of the few areas
has had tractable product market fit over multiple cycles.
And I think on the terms of what you were saying about how you got into the space, I got into the space for NFTs too.
And I think what NFTs, obviously there was the PFP craze, there was NFTs used for fundraising to build different products.
used for fundraising to build different products.
But for me, NFTs were something singular
that helped educate people of what this space is about,
which is wholly aligning,
whether you're a creator, a platform, a product,
incentives with users.
And I think that's something Web2 has not figured out, right?
Web2 users are generally quite passive. They don't have any upside in the success of the project unless they buy, you know, stocks and things like that. And their usage doesn't really determine.
you know, we can read this.
Creator, builder, innovator, and user.
And that user has a say in the direction.
And I also think NFTs helped create a lot of retail interest, right?
A lot of people just have a little bit of crypto in their wallet
to do some fun shit with now, you know,
and you've seen the emergence of crazy airdrop campaigns.
I think meme coins benefited from the fact that so many people had gotten brought on from NFTs.
NFT communities, the blue chips are a huge signal for projects that want to enter the space and tap
into an atomic network of distribution of highly convicted, highly vocal advocates.
And so I think it's all very exciting.
And right now, I would say the theme that we see is institutional interest is not waning,
right?
I think everyone is basically like, yes, blockchain is pure technology now, and it helps us do
pure technology now and it helps us do our business and we're huge businesses better.
our business, and we're huge businesses better.
So the question for me is how is the web three native community that's been here multiple cycles
building succeeded, failed, succeeded, failed, going to step up and meet them where they're at
to not only accept all of the value that they will bring in attention and extreme liquidity,
but also keep up with the pace of innovation.
Because I think the last thing that anyone wants
is for a few big players to come in
and take the whole pie of how things work.
To always believe the next breakout mainstream mainstream app is going to come from
the native builders and founders so yeah that's kind of what i'm seeing yeah love that take i think
since nft happened a lot of people like that was one i would say one product you know that brings
tons of people whether it's you know old people coming into
the web trip space or like new people like me and you but that was just a narrative of like hey man
i think the timing was so perfect right you know it was during covid period and everybody's like
shit what should we do business are closing down and we see like crazy news on like what
nft minted at this price and then run up and it's like man it
gained so much interest in terms of you know instagram banned the word you know i remember
reading newspaper or my dad coming and asked me hey you know what is nfts and you know that shit
it really hits you know all of the target market in the world and looking at right now like what
you say you know a lot of projects
are slowly maturing. Like when we came into the space, the whole concept was, man, projects,
mint NFT, get the funding and then build out the products. But I think now after being in the space
for like two, three years, we realize actually that is not the real way, right? The right way is
building out products, getting people to test it,
and then slowly onboarding new people
into the ecosystem.
So would you say the next big wave for you guys
is targeting how easy AI is to onboard
like these people to DeFi
and to all of these different products?
Yeah, I think the next wave is essentially
how do the existing protocols that
have product market fit are gaining traction as a business, right, from a revenue perspective,
how are they thinking about acquiring new users? And it's not just diverting attention from one
ecosystem to another ecosystem, it is how do we expand core tenants of web through user behavior more broadly,
right? And the way in which you do that is to make opportunities a little more evident,
maybe less risky, right? To make onboarding frictionless while still maintaining
elements of self-sovereignty. And I think this is where everyone is kind of thinking, right?
Even protocols and DeFi ecosystems,
now they're thinking about how you bring on
traditional assets into the fold.
How you bring on tokenized securities, tokenized gold,
deeply liquid assets that if they were even a percentage
of point to come on chain, it would dwarf anything
that's being traded currently so
i think that's kind of where i see people starting to think is okay look you know there's there's
tons of people with crypto in their wallets there's very few of them utilizing that to do anything
interesting how do we actually change that behavior? And everyone seems to be thinking around the same thing as well as investors, right?
Investors now, you know, they're looking at companies with real traction, right?
And because we're here, right?
We're here.
It's like, how many new users are you onboarding?
How much revenue are you generating?
What's your cost per acquisition?
What's your LTV?
All of these questions are being asked.
And also now, you know, traditional maybe Web2 investors are starting to think, hey,
we need to get into the space and start investing in companies too.
So, yeah, it's all about user expansion, converting the passive into active at a higher rate.
And yeah, I think it's still going to be super fun,
but we get to be
a little bit more serious
in how we build businesses.
Yeah, for sure.
You know what's funny?
Like when you mentioned about,
hey, you know,
how many users
you're onboarding,
you know,
what's the DAU, MAU.
Bro,
when it's NFT,
it used to be like,
is your account
100K follower?
And if it's yes,
it's bullish, right? And then like,
now, so much things have changes. And you know, people that comes and see, all right, you know,
we got to be a little bit more mature. It's not always about the hype, but building out great
products out there, right? So back to, you know, I want to shift the conversation a little bit,
because we've been talking about, you know, the future, we're talking about what sort of, you know, I want to shift the conversation a little bit because we've been talking about, you know, the future.
We're talking about what sort of, you know, I would say narrative that you've been looking at.
But really want to focus on in terms of the tech-wise, right? You know, right now, there's so much, I would say, you know, different ecosystems out there, different tech out there that enables, you know, products to operate in a different way, right?
What are some of, you know of the upgrades or I would say narrative
that Aptos want to push on?
Because I've been hearing,
hey man, a lot of people
are bullish on move language.
A lot of universities in Asia
once besides just teaching on Rust
and stuff like that,
we want to teach move language
because this is going to be the future.
I'm seeing a lot of like ecosystem,
for example, IOTA, that say, hey, move is going to be the future i'm seeing a lot of like ecosystem for
example iota let's say hey you know move is going to be the future how can we incorporate this
technology to them so it's a new wave of you know getting the i would say all developers
wanting to start learning about the move language so far how is the traction is do you gain interest
organically?
Or is there something that you guys are doing on the back end to kind of like push and educate?
Because we know education takes a long time versus hype.
I'd love to hear your take on this.
Yeah, it's a really good question.
I think the beauty of Move and the VM ecosystem is,
as a collective, it is starting to gain awareness and the chains
that have natively been building on it are starting to benefit from that. And if you know,
you don't know, but Aptos Move is one of the most widely proliferated programming languages
across the Move ecosystem of infrastructure. So we've created something that can be used by many different
chains which is a signal in and of itself of what is the most elegant language within move to use
i would say in terms of where we're building to make sure that that adoption is leading to real
world kind of applications and success you know first the blockchain layer um we don't believe
the job job's not finished you know what i mean in the blockchain layer. We don't believe the job, job's not finished.
You know what I mean?
In the words of Kobe, the whole goal there is that we're a high throughput blockchain.
And what we want to do is allow for decentralized networks to compete at the same level of speed
and user experience as any centralized exchange.
And that's going to be the goal.
That's good. That's that that is has to be the objective to actually onboard most people.
So we're doing tons of stuff to help with performance and finality.
And also we're thinking about how we actually build below that stack
to enable things that you can do better with data and computation.
And so now you can actually think about, okay, well, we could build a decentralized Instagram,
right, or a streaming service or, you know, crazy like companies who need like high, high,
high data sets to be processed.
You can start to think about it from the blockchain level.
These things can support them.
I would say one level above that, we're constantly innovating on tooling for dApps and builders to make onboarding even easier. Just recently,
we launched Xaccounts, which, you know, wallets, hey, which wallet do I use if I'm using this
chain or a dApp on this chain is always a huge nightmare. Well, now that doesn't really matter.
You can transact with any Aptos dApp with any wallet through X accounts. And that's an abstraction
of essentially saying, hey, we don't care what wallet it has. All that matters is you're able to
interface with this dApp or protocol and you could send a transaction. So that's super exciting. And so we're always thinking about ways on the layer
to make onboarding extremely easy.
The second thing is within that space,
we have Aptos build.
And that was really a bet by us to say,
hey, do we really want dApps or founders or protocols
to come in and say,
okay, I want to build on Aptos, but now I need to talk with three indexers and 50 RPCs,
or do I just want to build an app?
And so build essentially lets anyone who's ready to build and launch
to have one-stop shop, full-stack offering to just go and build their end customer experience. So
I think on those levels, from a decentralized network perspective and performance perspective,
and what types of possibilities it opens up if you innovate both on and below that stack,
as well as tooling to help onboarding as seamless as possible, is kind of the areas that I would say
Aptos Labs specifically is
focused on building to enable an ecosystem
to form. Got it.
Man, when you share about
what Aptos
is doing on the backend to make it so
much easier, do you see a world
where everything transects
on-chain? Where people
are building apps from
all of the different
world and then being able to build on Aptos, Aptos enables, like, you know, multi-chain where,
you know, that is so easy to communicate from one to the other via the Mooth language. Would that be
the vision? If not, like, what would be the main vision for you guys?
Yeah, I mean, it's a really great question. I think when you look at crypto,
there's only one store of value. That's Bitcoin. Everything else is technology. And so we're in
that bucket, right? And what does technology need to do? It needs to be extremely performant,
reliable, and flexible. And so I think for us, there is no, hey, this is just the Aptos ecosystem.
It is, here's the Aptos network.
Anyone that wants to use it, even if you're another blockchain, you can.
And so I think that's naturally where things will go.
But right now, the priority is to make sure that the people who are taking a bet on Aptos
are supported, are nurtured, and know that they can succeed.
That's the early innings of this.
But from a technology standpoint,
there's no reason why people couldn't use the best blockchain
or the blockchain that was built for meta for their needs as well.
So we're very excited about that.
In terms of transactions all happening on chain,
of course, that's kind of what I spoke about
in terms of why we're always focused on innovating at the blockchain and even below layer to enable that.
But the question comes down to there are going to be certain use cases where extreme transparency with the blockchain always opens up may not be best for those users or for the business.
There are also ideas around how we think about, you know, veiled transactions or things that, you know, not necessarily are about taking information away, but more in line with privacy so that blockchains can be more utilized for maybe more sensitive and more legislated industries.
So I think that's that's definitely what we expect to happen. But I think people are going to have different preferences
of how transactions are actually logged and exposed.
Got it.
Man, I'm just excited hearing all of the interesting facts
that you guys are mentioning, right?
Would you consider right now it's a bull market
or a bear market for you?
And if it's a bear market,
is the strategy different in terms of how you guys
approach to build an ecosystem or it's always going to be the same this is how we're going to
build and we see results so it's not going to change it i don't give a fuck what market it is
uh we we're just going to build and we're going to we're going to want people to build and if it
takes multiple shots on goal to get the aha moment that gets traction,
then we want to be there alongside.
And so that's kind of where my singular philosophy is.
But I know that bears and bulls and market swings
affects everyone differently.
But I think if you were looking at this industry, right,
from a one, two, but maybe more of a five-year lens, you have to be singularly focused.
And you have to push forward.
And you have to have conviction.
Right?
If you start to just say, oh, you know, it's a bull now.
And we got to change everything we do.
And now it's a bear.
Now we got to change everything.
You do nothing.
So that's kind of where I think.
I think trading is
not going anywhere trading is going to expand the types of assets that's going to come on board the
types of arbitrage opportunities that are going to open up for pockets of societies or use cases
because of crypto and crypto alone is going to continue to expandments isn't going anywhere. Dece is now coming, and we have all three of the
major stables on the fastest network and most secure network. So these are areas that are not
going anywhere, and the same with decentralized infrastructure. So what we're really focused on is
making sure that we're cultivating an ecosystem of founders who really have a strong thesis around
these things and want to grow and build and be the next unicorn but then there's a separate area
where we also have to be open to listen because no one can predict the next meta in this crazy
industry you know if uh you know it's like no one predicted nfts right the community came and
really passionate people came and they started to create this thing
and it got traction so i think as a foundation we always have to listen to people with crazy ideas
and and also be there to support them all right got it i mean as cliche as it sounds uh they say
builders gonna build right uh and depending on you, what kind of the market, end of the day, I think the fundamental is stakes.
You know, building a great product,
getting people to test it, and then scaling up.
I think that was the fundamental of, you know,
all great products being built out.
So for you personally, like,
what are some of the key areas that you'd be like,
hey, you know, with this market,
I want to double down on this
because it's going to generate me, you know, the most result me the most result as a simple of an 80-20 rule. What is that 80% of impact that you want to focus
on? I think for me, I try not to be too opinionated, although we are going to publish from
the trading perspective, which areas we are very keen on building. So stay tuned for that.
which areas we are very keen on building.
So stay tuned for that.
There's also builders who've already been here
for more than a year who have crazy roadmaps
that are kind of tracking towards that too.
But I think within the trading atmosphere,
we have tons of ideas and opinions
of where we think interesting things could be built
and also how we'll support people
from a foundation perspective
or through our partner satellites or investor network to make those things happen.
But what I would say more generally, you know, when I think about ideas and how to evaluate them,
you know, I'm not a VC, right? I've always just been an operator. But since I've been in this
space, the first thing you have to look at is, is the person pitching the idea going to let you sleep without hearing it?
That's number one.
You know, I think like the passion is like completely key.
Two, are they just trying to do the same thing that's been done somewhere else?
Because maybe they could just do it here.
That's not something that I'm very interested in um more generally um and then three i think i i really believe in this like hey do you have your
apostles in terms of users right like do you have your i don't even care if it's like a hundred
users who are basically like yo this shit is popping i'm here every day
let's go what do you need to expand that's kind of like super interesting right to evaluate um
and so that's what i would say is is kind of like on a high level eval criteria um because again i
don't know what the next meta is if i did did, you know, I'd probably be retired.
But, you know, so that's kind of what that's kind of how I think about it.
But, yeah, we're very excited for trading specifically to publish specific tracks.
We think are interesting to build specific pockets of industries. We think we're very interested.
and I think payments will do a similar thing,
And I think payments will do a similar thing.
but we don't want to be overly, overly opinionated
on most things, I would say.
Got it.
Dude, if you found the next meta,
make sure to just slide into my DM and let me know, okay?
I do not want to miss it.
I got you.
All right.
Man, there's so much things well said,
and obviously I'm from Asia.
Gotta ask, man.
Like, where do you think is some of the places that, you know,
Web3 or crypto has not have mass adoption in Asia?
And these are the key area of focus that you want to, you know, penetrate in?
I would love for Luke or the folks maybe more kind of immersed, you know, I don't
want to speak for the whole continent in a simplistic way. But what I would say is there
are areas where the utility of crypto is existential in markets. Existential. It's not fun. It's not a hobby. It's existential. And I think about how
you send money to people, right, as one of those things. And so I think within Asia, there are
certainly areas there. But even expanding beyond that, when you think about Africa or Nigeria,
you know, you see kind of a burgeoning community, which are basically
thinking crypto native first on how to innovate on the next phase of fintech.
And so I think it's good to look at the areas where the existence of crypto is existential
to the society or the community or the culture functioning, as well as maybe right now traditional industries
don't have a lot of opportunities for them from a job prospect perspective or just an economic
sustainability perspective. That's really an area for not only Aptos, but all kind of
foundations and ecosystems to go and help support is be there. It's existential, the need, the traditional industries haven't given them runway to survive.
So go there and support them and help them like kind of change the course of,
you know, the next wave.
And, you know, I think fintech is one of those.
Got it.
You know, one funny thing is like last week, these days, you know one funny thing is like uh last week these days you know you have so much of like
i would say different cards that you could send your crypto to those cards and just make payment
if it's like visa or mastercard right and i was just you know using the card to tap in and it's
like my dad's like ask me asking me like what card is that it's like crypto it's like what
you now can use crypto to pay so it's man, this is something just so basic that everyone in Web3 knows.
But then giving this information out to the public, people don't even know that it exists.
So I think there is obviously a gap in terms of education that we could add into getting people.
And especially what you say, places that people can't live without crypto,
these are the places that, man, crypto really changed their life.
A lot of people from the Philippines that have been impacted with GameFi
all of a sudden realized that, man, with GameFi or with Axie,
they're able to change their life and get way more money
compared to working the day-to-day
so i think like crypto has been really big in asia especially when you look at in terms of like the
currency wise i think those are really impactful okay look you already are gonna let ash rest a
little bit look you gotta tell me man let me know more what's happening in asia bro yeah i i think like what ash mentioned as well and what
you also mentioned but i think like asia itself is extremely diverse right i think you know
if we look at like singapore malaysia the rest of southeast asia and also um you know japan and
korea you know every market is really really different and um it has like its own unique
sets of challenges but also also upside, right?
And I think it's more of taking a really holistic approach,
as cliche as it might be,
but to really engage with the whole of the APEC region
and try to be as harmonious about it
and have them working all together.
And like you mentioned, I think in Malaysia and Singapore,
we're seeing a lot more founders and builders kind of like pick up AppDots move.
And, you know, a lot of them are becoming a lot more proficient
and they're starting to build on AppDots.
I think we're seeing a lot of like founder energy there.
And then when we look at our activations in the Philippines,
we're seeing a lot of excited consumers there as well,
like from the GameFi side and even just general D-pin or anything like that.
So it really is about how we can kind of like connect the different dots together
to kind of benefit all the users and all the founders
and, you know, have a holistic approach to it.
But yeah, I think things are really heating up.
I know Malaysia Blockchain Week is coming up soon as well.
So I think that's an exciting one to look out for.
I know we have quite a few builders um
representing there too yeah and and just looking at you know i'd say all of the different grassroots
stuff that you guys are doing whether it's you know builder house whether it's hackathon
you know all of this thing in asia is there a specific narrative that people are going into
is it like more defy builders are coming out is it like more DeFi builders are coming out? Is it more AI builders are coming out?
I'd love to get your input, Luke.
Yeah, I think it's a good mixture.
Obviously, I think at the start of the year,
we did see quite a lot of inbound with AI,
but I think all the AI teams are trying to kind of pivot now
to reimagine what AI would really look like.
We've got some exciting use cases as well um even on the
nft side with ai like how we can rethink traditional nft means there's this platform called springboard
where you know they're gonna be launching next month um but how it works is that instead of
just minting a typical nft now you're gonna mean that nft on a bonding curve and that provides
instant liquidity but not only that like
for example there's like a base like PFP and then you can kind of input some prompts and customize
that PFP to your liking before you mint it so it's gonna be a whole new wave of like creatives
and artists like coming to AppDots to kind of experiment and try to cool shit out and you know
you see that across you know DeFi and everything as well, just a lot of iteration and experimentation.
But yeah, I think that's what the builders are looking forward to, just trying to onboard
more traders and more DeFi applications and infrastructure onto AdTOS as well.
All right. We come to the end of first segment. Man, one hour just gone just like that.
I think it's pretty quick.
Shout out to Luke, shout out to Ash, shout out to Pong for joining in on the first segment.
Before we play some tunes and, you know, tidy up the panel speaker, get ready for the next segment,
one personal question.
Luke, are you ready for this?
Personal question.
Let's go, let's go. Alright, what's
the best way for you
to kind of like reset and touch grass?
What do you do to
de-stress?
I don't think it's been a while.
I think the market kind of forces me to touch grass.
I think like during the whole like
early of this year and end of last year, it's just
kind of non-stop. I would say like gaming and I think that's why early of this year and end of last year, it was just kind of non-stop.
I would say gaming, and I think that's why I probably am still quite bullish on gaming and just trying to find the way that we can bring more webtree users onto the gaming side of things.
But yeah, I think gaming is a great way to touch grass.
Although I recently read that it adds to stress levels.
Bro, bro. Gaming, yeah, yeah. It touches grass,
but it is also at stress level
when you keep losing
and someone just kill you,
hit shot every time.
Ash, how about you?
Man, what is grass?
Don't tell me what more.
Bro, bro, don't tell me what more.
What is grass?
No, no.
You know, I'm blessed
to have found
a beautiful wife
and have two children
who don't give a shit what I do
and just love me. So that's, that's my grass, you know, I'm, uh, I'm, that's, that's my little
cozy home. All right. Got it. Uh, last but not least pool or point. How about you?
Nice fix. Thank you. Uh, for me also just surround yourself with good people,
you know, in person, make some eye contact once in a while. Uh, but I. For me, also just surround yourself with good people,
you know, in person,
make some eye contact once in a while.
But I also like to get outside so that the sun is up.
I'll go do my protocol,
get some sunlight in the eyeballs
before getting to it.
Oh, right.
Well, it's good that you guys,
at least saying that,
hey, you know, we are touching grass
and it's not like
someone who says
man my touch grass
is work more
and think more about work
so you guys are healthy
alright guys
time's up
for first segment
like retweet it
if you feel
hey man
this is a good
good segment
we still got three more hours to go
and the next one
is rather interesting as well
as we're going to talk about
the secret in building
sustainable IP.
So we invite a lot of,
whether it's meme coin,
whether it's NFTs,
it is going to be a nice, nice segment.
All right, I'm going to play some tunes.
But before that, shout out to Luke.
Shout out to Ash.
Shout out to Poi.
Thank you so much for joining
on the first segment.
Hope you guys love it.
And guys, listen to my tunes.
We will be back in the next five minutes,
diving down to segment number two. Oh, yeah. Oh Oh I'm going to spray, but I'm trying to know what you're going to do.
You're going to be stuck and let me let me get.
Show me, show me, show me the way, the way to the back, reach for the sky. Oh, Thank you. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, Can you feel it? Thank you. Oh Something's just unresomable
You caught me wondering why I changed
Oh, I don't look the same
Why I think so differently now
Why I think so differently now
Why I think so differently now
Why I think so different now I don't think so different now I don't think so different now
I don't think so different now
I don't think so different now
Is it ever gonna change?
Am I gonna feel this way forever?
Are you gonna be around for me?
Come on, come on
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, Oh Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, squeeze you right, tell you what I want Put me in your bedroom and I'll sing a little song
Hold you tight, squeeze you right, give you all of God
See you in the morning, over coffee, we'll talk about
Is it ever gonna change? Am I gonna feel this way forever?
Are you gonna be around for me to count on? Oh Thank you. All right, we are back at the second segment, and I'm excited.
Man, first segment was a banger.
If you guys like it, like, retweet the space.
Let's get more people up here because we have three more hours.
First hour was
a banger. We deep-dived a little bit about the vision of Aptos, all of the different activation
and stuff they're doing, you know, in terms of narrative, in terms of product, in terms of,
you know, I got to ask about Asia, right? Because I'm in Asia. But I think it's all exciting and
really pumped to meet the team next week in Dubai.
But before that, guys, this segment, segment number two,
we're going to talk about the secret in building sustainable IP.
And I invited tons of people up on stage.
We have five speakers for this segment,
and each one of them has been pushing, whether it's IP, whether it's NFT,
or project and community building in Aptos ecosystem.
So I'm really excited for that.
I want to check in with my buddy, Huge.
Checking in.
How are you doing, bro?
GM Puke, am I loud and clear?
Yes, loud and clear.
I got to check.
Where are you right now in the world?
Because when you meet Web3 people, they're just all around.
I'm in Osaka right now. Nice. Why are you doing now in the world? Because like, when you meet Web3 people, they're just all around.
I'm in Osaka right now.
Nice.
Why are you doing that, bro?
Some alpha that you don't want to share with me?
Actually,
I've been posting about it.
It seems like you haven't been
paying attention to my post,
I guess.
The burn.
The burn.
Okay, okay.
How's weather like in Osaka?
Is it still snowing, bro?
Oh, no.
Not at all.
Not at all.
It's quite nice, actually.
It's quite nice. I'm here for the snowing, bro? Oh, no, not at all. Not at all. It's quite nice, actually. It's quite nice.
I'm here for the Aptos Horizon,
so the accelerator program,
and it's been pretty good.
Man, you got to share a little bit.
How has it been?
I heard it's...
When it started and when it's going to end?
It started, I think, 10 days ago.
So we just finished week two of the masterclasses
and there's still six more weeks.
All right.
Two weeks to go, four more weeks.
Man, six weeks is a long time.
I feel like you're getting so much alpha there.
Love to dive down a little bit more.
But let's check in with other speakers as well.
We got Yar Hunter hunter gm checking in
hello hello how we doing good how are you bro yeah i'm fine i'm fine i guess there was a lot
of alpha before so at least i catch this hour to listen alpha right now well um just now you've
been listening to alpha this segment you are giving the Alpha.
So are you ready for it?
Yeah, always ready.
Alright, got it.
I want to check in with Zen as well.
Jeng, is it?
Zen.
CM Jeng.
I have problem butchering.
I butchered just now Poise's name
like multiple times on Spaces
and I got to ask her.
All right, how do I pronounce it?
Dan, you pronounce it right.
Okay, Jan.
All right, how's things with you?
How's the market?
How is Q2 looking for you?
Tell me more.
Yeah, just looking good on Aptos.
I'm also in Osaka with Aptos Horizon.
Man, you guys are crushing out at Osaka. So what so far, I know, week two, what do you like about the courses or the masterclass
that you've been receiving?
What is one key takeaway for people who can't go there and we only can get the Alpha through
spaces?
We're talking about how to break into Japan market today.
Learned a lot.
That is interesting.
Over the past of like what, three years I'm in crypto,
a lot of people wanting to break into the Japan market.
Man, you guys are out there doing wonders.
All right.
Excited to hear more later.
I want to go over Wakmi Exchange.
Checking in. How are you doing hello hello at the punch of the side so i'm tuning from india so i haven't done much twitter spaces so pardon for
like any mistakes i do but i'm doing good traveling right now right now. No worries, man.
Well, we are a community.
So just come in.
Vibe, Twitter Spaces is all about casual conversations we have with our friends and brothers, right?
So it's no pressure.
All of the questions are super simple.
Unless you want some tough questions and you just raise up your hand and be like,
Piuq, I need more hard questions.
And it's like,
okay,
let me give it to you.
Right.
All right. One more speakers we have on stage.
NMKR checking in.
Yeah.
nice to meet you.
Patrick is here.
And yeah,
we pronounce it Nmaker actually,
but NMKR is also fine and super happy to be here.
It's my first ever up to space actually oh man why are i gotta throw you a tough question now um why is this the only first
apptop spaces you joined bro come on that's a that's a very good question and uh that's actually
also the reason why i'm here because we we launched four years ago, but we finally now integrated Aptos.
So we've been mostly on other blockchains, and now we basically just integrated Aptos.
It isn't even announced yet. We haven't made any announcement post or anything like that.
But this is the first time actually that I talk about it publicly. So yeah, very excited.
All right, got it. Excited to hear this.
All right, let's dive in
on the first question, right?
Because I think everyone here
where there's an NFT project
kind of realized that
the best way to build community
and get community rally
is like, you know,
launching a great project,
doing community meetup,
getting people to wrap the PFP.
Like everyone here is wrapping a pfp so you
know that nft is something that we deeply deeply love uh despite people are saying nfts are dead
and stuff yet day by day i've been seeing tons of nft has been minted out so patrick since i end
with you we're gonna start with you man like a little ice breaking question to get to know you
a little bit more you know what's some of the eyepiece
that you saw it throughout your life
and you instantly fell in love, and why?
Oh, I mean, there's so many, you know,
I think there's so many...
You gotta choose, bro.
Yeah, I mean, there's so many great brands out there.
I think also in web too,
but also many, like, web-free brands. brands my favorite is it's like a Berliner artist his name is or a and
he created like this manga enemy manga anime NFT collection and also some
shoes I'm actually wearing the shoes every single day and he connected those
shoes with NFTs basically so I really love that i don't know
if you know it it's a more of an unpopular smaller brand but i think it's really incredible all right
got it that that is an interesting take i want to hear from different people as well huge how about
you what is that ip that you love the most ip that i love the most um are we talking specifically web 3 or outside of anything
outside inside inside under anything bro um i guess honestly it might have to be nike because
i started off with a sporting background so everything about nike their their quote just
do it all that stuff what really really hits and really, I guess,
speaks from my childhood, I would say.
All right, Nike.
That is an IP that I love as well.
What would you like about it?
I just like how, I guess,
motivating, straightforward they are.
I mean, back then it used to be,
because I used to play football,
so I used to like their shoes a lot, mainly.
But yeah, pretty much everything about it.
All right, that is an interesting take.
Yarr, how about you?
I think anything which is more close to your personality.
And in general, the beauty of Web3 is that you can make
unique things from any common one.
So that is why I like NFT a lot in this way.
All right.
Got it.
Jun, how about you?
Mine is Godzilla.
Wait, wait, hold on.
Yours is what?
Godzilla.
Godzilla.
Oh, Godzilla.
All right.
Why?
Why?
Yeah, because our project is also backed by Toho, the Godzilla's IP holder.
And because I go to the office like every week, there's like a poster of Godzilla there since 1950.
It's like the history, so cool being there as the big IP representing Japan market.
Yeah.
All right.
Got it.
I think everyone has their own opinion
in terms of what kind of IP that they love.
And it's like, man, these are IP that is out there,
you know, worth tons of millions of dollars
and people just love it for a reason, right?
So back to, you know, the main topic of today.
You know, everyone here,
whether they launch an NFT project, whether it's a platform,
I think we believe that IP is really, really strong.
So maybe each one of you can kind of give a little bit short introduction
for people who do know what you guys are doing.
Do share a little bit more what are some of the stuff that you guys are building in WebTree,
especially building on Aptos.
So I'm going to go over to
Walkme Exchange.
How about you?
Yes.
So I'm Dupan.
So I work here
as a front-end developer here.
So what we are building
is basically
a no-code launchpad
that has a lot of customization
that could help people to launch their LFTs without actually doing the code, but actually
launching them without like with many of the customizations that people struggle with on
Aptos.
All right.
Thank you so much for that. Going back to Zen, how about you?
We're building IP. It's like a core building IP with the community. And it's actually a new IP
from Toho, same as Godzilla, 100% owned by Toho IP,
called Mofu Mofu Music Caravan.
It's a band character.
And we built in an Aptos, starting from the PFP.
Oh, this is the alpha.
We actually didn't stay anywhere yet.
I love it.
I love it.
We have two speakers up on stage.
And it's like, oh, sorry guys,
just like,
we have not tell anyone yet,
but I came to the space.
It was AptosCon.
I was so excited and I just like it.
Love it.
Love it.
Thank you so much
for dropping the alpha, man.
It's heaven alpha time
and you guys are dropping it.
Yarr,
how about you?
We actually have a pretty long journey on aptos like we tried a lot of
things like i guess some og can remember the spooks list someone can remember the snipe right
now we mostly focus about spook spaces we touch some topics which like not every space is touching
like up to steam introduction and, something like everything actually around Aptos because it's consistent work for us to have every Tuesday our space.
And we really put patience in this to have something interesting for Aptos community.
right lovely and uh huge how about you
Right. Lovely. And Hugh, how about you?
so at amaturasu we're building experiences experiences through gamification technology
we're pioneering the hybrid asset technology on aptos and also looking to further our ip as part
of um part of that and there's lots of stuff coming up lots of stuff coming up oh man everybody's accidentally
dropping alpha you got to do the same bro it's not going to be fair
well it's it's um i guess i guess i can say the tokenomics uh the tokenomics masterclass
helped a lot with what we're trying to do that's that's part of the alpha all right
got it uh and patrick over to you yeah so um what endmakers is we are basically an nft minting tool
right so we are infrastructure and we offer no code tools but also apis for projects to integrate us
and uh and we've been around as i mentioned for four years in in integrate us. And we've been around, as I mentioned,
for four years in other ecosystems now.
So we've been mostly on Cardano.
We made over 30% of all the NFTs on Cardano
and we are on Solana.
And now we're finally on Aptos.
And I think that's really exciting actually
because now the way we approach it
is that we say, okay,
the project doesn't have to choose on which chain they actually want to launch, right?
So the project doesn't have to say, okay, I'm going to launch on Aptos now or I'm going to launch on Ethereum now or whatever.
The project can launch on multiple chains and then the user, the buyer can basically select where they actually want to receive the NFT.
So we basically do like bridging of NFTs right at the minting level, which I think is
quite unique and no one...
I don't know of any other project that is
doing it like that.
And that's basically
what we're up to.
Now that everyone has briefly
mentioned a little bit about what they're doing, guys,
before we go on to an
open discussion, do like
Retweet the Space so we get more people back on it again.
But today it's AptosCon, right?
We want to talk a little bit more about, you know,
building an IP, why building an Aptos.
And if you guys want to chime in,
feel free to raise your hand.
We do not need to follow the sequence.
It is an open conversation.
So I would love to know more in terms of,
hey man,
there's so many ecosystems out there
that you guys can choose from.
But you said,
hey, you know,
I want to build on Aptos
and after building on it,
you know,
obviously you guys have your opinion
whether it's,
you know,
support from the team,
great community,
vibrancy that comes to your project.
Love to get your experience
in terms of,
you know,
to the listeners down there that say, hey, you know, to the listeners down there
that say, hey, you know,
I'm a builder.
I want to launch,
whether it's an NFT collection,
I want to launch on Aptos.
Like, what are some
of the key takeaways
that you guys can provide?
Starting off with Patrick.
Yeah, I think, you know,
you always have to think
a little bit about,
okay, what can the chain
actually offer me
that the other chains don't offer me, right?
And for Uptos, I think it's very clear
that Uptos excels at a few certain things.
And one of them is obviously the speed, right?
The speed and the finality of transactions.
So if you really want to build something
with millions of NFTs and with millions of users,
then it makes a lot of sense to choose Aptos because you,
you know,
you can basically just have like however many transactions you want on Aptos.
And that's quite unique and a really hard challenge to solve.
And I think Aptos has done a good job at actually doing that.
So yeah,
that's my,
that's my number one.
Got it.
And you got to tell me more uh in terms of you know
talking to all of the different chains and then now saying hey you know i want to be on aptos
and obviously you guys are a launch pad like what makes an nft great um obviously you've been
in and out with tons of different projects out there but there is so many key takeaway, right? Like today I just saw people posting,
shit, Altifact, you know,
all of the NFTs are gone
because they did not pay for IPFS
and be like, fuck, you know,
is it my NFT or it doesn't belong to me, right?
I'd love to get your input on, you know,
how can NFTs sustain
in terms of whether it's this market,
whether it's the bull, whether it's the bear?
I think it's really hard to sustain a good project.
We see really good ones made it to the end,
and really bad ones just fizzled out.
But the fact that you guys are still here,
building on Eptos, it means that, hey man, you guys got a plan.
So let me know, based off your experience, Patrick,
what are some of the
i would say key factors that determine whether the nfc project will succeed or not
yeah i mean that's that's the big question right um and i think we're definitely in like an nft
bear market at the moment and i think um like in the early days of nfts there was a lot of hype
and excitement and everyone was just launching like random bullshit nfts but if days of nfts there was a lot of hype and excitement and everyone was just launching
like random bullshit nfts but if you launch nfts you actually have to really think about okay what
is what is it that you're actually selling right you're not just selling in a picture you are
selling ownership over something and you need to really be able to also attach this ownership and
make very clear like to the buyers
what you are selling there are you selling some sort of ip rights are you selling some sort of
utility are you just doing this like whole club approach that many did right um and you just need
to focus on it and you don't i think most projects got caught up with like oh we need to i don't know
like launch staking for our nfts and we need to do
this and that that every other project is doing as well and the the only nft projects that are
really surviving are the ones that focus on one small core business area right and that actually
makes sense so my my favorite project actually across all chains is a project called
book.io and what they do is they basically tokenize ebooks right so they sell ebooks as nfts
and it's a very clear functionality because if you buy the nft you have access to the ebook and
you're not reliant on like kindle or amazon or so that's very easy to understand and that's something that
will you know continue to exist even if even if book io fails and it's not that you are dependent
on some sort of community or some some vision or some hype and speculation so i i do like those
like very specific uh like utility cases basically i think like uh this plays a lot of NFT projects that succeeded.
They have a clear use case or clear angle that makes it interesting.
Okay, that is a fairly good take.
I'll just go through how I see the rotation.
The next one beside you is Huge.
So Huge, love to get your input, right?
You've been building Amaterasu.
You know,
it's a mixture of NFT
with token.
Like, how do you see,
you know,
this IP
could be something of,
you know,
every people
that come into the ecosystem
wants to get it.
Yeah, so one of the first,
one of the really important things
that we focused on was art.
We wanted to make sure
that art was extremely detailed.
And the reason why we chose anime art was because so many people, especially in Web3, are so...
They just love anime, right?
So I feel like people can relate easier to it.
And something else that we're also doing that's a little more special and is the reason why we chose Aptos because of their speed and on-chain randomness is the...
special and is the reason why we chose aptos because of their speed and on-chain randomness
is the we're bringing the like we're trying to bring true gacha mechanics on on-chain and aptos
is the only place that can really allow for that to happen and when you look at you know ip as a
whole right you know anime ip people love it what are some of like the ip you think all the angles that
nfc projects should be because i think we see a change or a shift of you know people
minting the nfc and hoping it to moon right now is you know people are joining in wanting to vibe
together with the community and doing so much more pushing out the ip and stuff like that so
obviously hype ip was a huge i say, motivation factor for you guys
because you focus on the art.
What are some of the ways that you guys are wanting to implement
to grow out the IP, grow out the brand,
get more people aware of, hey, Amaterasu,
this is something that we want to focus in?
Yeah, so with Amaterasu,
we're really focusing on bringing different types of experiences so showing off the type of technology we have and how that um basically relates and how that
correlates to um our our art you know good art good technology you get both. And I think it's really important that, you know, just good
technology doesn't, it doesn't move people as much. So with the type of art, the type of stories,
the emotional connection that you get through storytelling helps a lot with helping to explain
everything else. And I think it just blends really well together.
Oh, right.
Thank you so much for that.
Love that take.
Yar, how about you, man?
You mentioned earlier, you know, beginning of the spaces that you guys have been pushing out there, really OG building, you know, your project in Aptos. I think like for an NFT project or, you know, that has been day in, day out pushing, you know, pushing out the narrative getting people excited still up today
showing up i think that is a huge fit so what are some of the things that you could share you know
since the launch of your nft project till now something that you guys focuses on to kind of
like grow the brand i think i want also like answer about why aptos because my opinion gonna be a bit different from
i guess from other speakers because aptos has a good tech and like very impressive one but first
of all why aptos and why is the culture we're born here it's about strong backbone so if you going
through aptos nfts community which they're from the day one and still there uh you go like see
the founders the people who in general expand the years on aptos you're gonna see that these people
are pretty open and that is why for new nft creator like if you're not even a brand if you're
just uh artist which joe and aptos you can easily contact anyone you can easy jump in a lot of
spaces and it's it's so easy on aptos
that a lot of people don't understand these things and that is why it's so good to be like an artist
on aptos and maybe it's not about like to get huge volumes these days but it's about to get support
and people who really care about you got it um i mean when you guys decided to build a chain that is basically the whole identity right
so the fact that you are building on eptos that shows but love to dive down more you know on the
second question which is you know how has it been since first day building on eptos up to now it's
been a long ride love to hear a little bit more on the journey as well
uh yes it was a pretty long one journey and i guess with some products we just was a hit of the time probably like for example spooks list is war was about kathio these days
and it's what brings the fun around aptos pre-my-net to get uh all information about
other personalities and projects and these days
i guess it's just like about staying for the people because there are still people with uh
have like spooks profile picture like personality and also like smd dow which you see my mask that
is what i actually said about like you can create anything from common NFT because my profile
picture it's just common NFT I didn't get like a legendary one from the collection and then I just
created sub DAO and it's kind of the strongest sub DAO right now on Aptos the SMD DAO and yeah
people still like put this culture all around still wearing this in their bio and just because they feel a part of this,
because they feel it a part of the cult.
And this, I think,
what a lot of NFT is about
and what this culture of NFT is about.
Got it.
Thank you so much for that.
And one more quick question to you
is that, you know,
when building out the IP,
building out the culture,
what are some, you know, after building it, after building it for more than a year,
what are some factors you find out
that, hey man,
if we do this or we double down,
it's easier to get new people
coming into the ecosystem,
new people buying it.
What will be your focus?
I think it's about be present for the people and hear the people feedback the most important
things as someone who building for the people in nfts all right thank you so much for that zen how
about you now talk about like why we build on aptos yeah this is also alpha because we didn't really officially
announce that we're gonna build on aptos but i hope this is bullish enough that like toho is
gonna build on aptos and why we choose aptos is like from my point of view is like more from web
to ip because we're building so many web to ip such as like jesus
kaisen by family my hero academy all from toho animation and we're building your ip more for
more for why we choose like we have so many web users so when when we onboard them onto a blockchain
it really like so much of the communication because if it's not social connected and if it's
not we so why we choose aptos is really from there thinking about our potential user when we
onboard them it's like really smooth if we onboard them onto Aptos compared to other chain. So I think this is more about we're thinking about our user.
So we choose Aptos.
All right, got it.
And so I think building out IP in WebTree,
you have this massive of people excited for it.
I think right now, every time when we look onto our timeline,
we are still excited,
seeing what sort of, you know,
IPs that are coming in,
what sort of, you know,
new collection that's coming in.
And whether the market is down or up,
I think end of the day,
people are excited to keep that piece of art.
So back to you, Zarin, you know,
when you get such a big,
I would say, brand name or IP
coming into the ecosystem,
it's obviously huge, right, to handle on the client side
and also getting more users attentive of what's happening.
So how do you juggle that?
And also bringing, you know, real or long-lasting IPs into Web3 and making it on-chain.
Yeah, actually building IP is not a one-day thing.
I feel like IP is like those who last for more than 10 years can finally call it as an IP.
So we know there is actually a good cultural environment in Web Suite.
People love animation so much.
And what we're building in Web 2 is also like decent animation rather than just
telling the story or just a character design. Because there are so many just illustration
IP in Web3. So what I mean, a long lasting IP is really something, a good combination of everything
including the contents, including the art, including the contents including the art including the storytelling and
also including the community that's why like because before the only one 100 percent owned
ip from toho is just gozila and now we're trying with morphemorphemusic caravan is we want to try something with the trendy method that how we can build the IP.
So the blockchain actually enables us to co-build the IP. So imagine that there's so many projects
saying you can own the ownership of the character, but if the character have no value,
if they are not good content,
actually the ownership of your IP
has no value as well.
And that's why we're here.
We're building animation.
And people know that Toho Animation
always delivers good masterpiece.
So when we say you have a part
of the ownership of IP, we mean
it. It's not just a piece of
illustration. It's IP.
Got it.
Excited, man. I think, like, these
are some of the things that I did not know
before hosting the spaces.
And just to see, man, it's not just
new artwork coming out from
Web3, but brands
are actually interested, you know, to launch their IP coming into Web3,
choosing Aptos as a gateway
for people to build all of this stuff.
I think, man, this is some exciting stuff.
Okay, WalkMe Exchange,
you got to tell me a little bit more.
How do you see NFTs happening?
What are the new, I would say,
narrative that has been happening and how do you make NFTs happening? What are the new, I would say, narrative
that has been
happening and
how do you
make an IP
sustainable?
Like, what
Zen say is so
true.
You know, IP
is not just
one day, it
takes years
and years of
churning it.
So, tell me
more.
Walkme Exchange,
are you there?
Check, check.
Alright. Walkme, if you you can speak just raise your hand and
I will pass it over to you if not no worries Yeah, yeah, I'm out.
All right, I think your connection is a little bit more. Yeah, so what I think is basically, so, like, when it came in 2021, so, I'm out of the room now.
Yeah, yeah, all good, all good, go ahead.
Yeah, so, when it came in 2020 it was good like then it came as a static images that are
booming right now but when it come to like current year it's not just a static images but more of
what you can bring and how you can upgrade them for, what I have seen is if you hold an IP, it should have some value and it should
be increased over time.
It should be static if that should be visible to the users, but you should own it as an
upgradable item that increases value over time.
All right.
Thank you so much for that.
I feel I want to switch off the conversation a little bit to the next thing, right?
Because obviously, we're talking about NFTs.
And I think this is one of the main topics that everyone is excited for.
We talk about how to build sustainable IP, what you guys are doing in the space. I think the next off is when it comes to having a great IP.
It's always about community building.
It's always about how many people, wrapping the PFP, how many people are excited for the brand.
And the most people that is wrapping it, I love the brand. They go above and beyond to just push the IP. And the most people, you know, that is wrapping it,
I love the brand, they go above and beyond to just push the IP.
So back to you, Patrick, you know, in terms of community building,
or even like right now in this bear market,
what are some of the things that you guys are doubling down
to kind of like get more people excited, you know,
getting all sorts of new IP, NFTs in the market,
especially, you know, getting them launched on Aptos as well.
So our main approach has always been
to look outside of the web-free market alone
and onboard artists and onboard brands
and onboard companies to the space.
Because if you're just inside the web-free space,
there's a limited amount of people there.
So what you need to be doing is you need to make the web free space
more attractive to regular people.
And you can only do so by building really great products
and really making your product interesting through the use of NFTs
and other things in Web3.
So we are really always looking outside and saying,
okay, how can we onboard new people?
How can we find a new audience?
And how can we bring them to Aptos, bring them to Endmaker
and show them in a very easy to understand way
that NFTs are not just images on the blockchain, but are so much more, right?
So, yeah, so that's really what we're focused on.
Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned that.
I think, like, when we first entered a space for NFT,
and up to now, it's totally different, right?
And you know that, you know, a particular, I would say,
industry or a particular angle would say um industry or particular
angle always has to be innovative right we see how you know people are doing for example nft
and then dynamic nft and so much more like where do you see the nft market going to
and in terms of like all of the great ips or ips that has been launched, how can it be more sustainable for the market?
I mean, I think we already passed the point
where everything crashed, right?
So right now, the NFT market is very small
and NFTs are being treated more like a technology.
Products and companies, they still use nfts but they don't
focus their whole identity on nfts they they build an amazing product or brand or ip and then they
just use nfts to enhance it and that's really what it's all about like it's not you know like
just selling an nft for the sake of it being an an NFT doesn't make a lot of sense.
And I think we're in this like period right now where everyone is realizing that and is using NFTs in a much more sustainable way already.
And I don't think we will ever see another like super high bull market
like we saw for the last market for NFTs again.
But instead, it's going to be a very slow rising of NFTs.
And then in 10 years, everyone will be using NFTs,
but they might not even realize that they're NFTs
because it's just a technology that works in the background, basically,
that gives you ownership over something.
So that's kind of how i see it all right
that that is an interesting take thank you so much for that uh huge how about you you know
obviously you guys launched an nft but then you know make it 404 which is a new technology
like love to know more you know what are some of the initiatives that you guys are doing to build
out the brand and even right now in this market like what will be some of the initiatives that you guys are doing to build out the brand and even right now in this
market like what will be some of the key factors that you guys are doubling down on
um i completely agree with what i believe it was it patrick sorry yeah yeah i completely agree with
what you said actually uh it does seem like the market is a lot more quiet now when it comes to um memes especially all that all the
initial hype you know the short-term hype short-term money that's all um it's a lot more
quiet now and I feel like people are starting to return to entities and tokens that are more
um utility orientated more product orientated uh whether or not they have potential for mass
adoption and everything and that's what we're looking to build as well. Basically, yeah, I mean, we were never part of the meme stuff.
We were always building for the future,
always building for the community.
And it's nice to see that the market's turning to this point now.
Yeah, I think the market right now, everybody's like,
hey, you know, let's not go on to the hype stuff.
We got to go back to really
utility teams that has been building out and i think this of this statement is really about you
know how many people whether it's boo or bear is still on the ground pushing out new products
doing new initiative and i think that is so much more important so huge back to you this year itself
you know is there any milestone is there any kpi for you guys you Back to you, this year itself, you know,
is there any milestone?
Is there any KPI for you guys,
you know,
to end of the year
be like,
hey,
you know,
this is the vision
and we are building
towards it.
What would be some of like,
you know,
the updates on that?
wow.
There's,
I feel like right now
there's so much
that I want to do,
you know,
when it comes to
merchandise
and when it comes to gamification, when it comes to other new products.
I'm currently narrowing that down while I'm in Osaka.
And it is helping quite a lot with our direction and everything.
But we are looking to bring something quite fun and something quite new.
Hopefully, we'll have something
to demonstrate
by the end of
Actors Horizon
that'd be
that'd be quite exciting
and I think the community
will be very
very happy with that
you mentioned about
utilities
there's more utility
coming out from you guys
yeah
yeah
possibly
possibly
got it, man.
Man, how, I would love to know, like right now you're in Osaka, you know,
how many builders are there, you know, together in the program?
What are some of like, you know, the highlights that you love so far in these two weeks?
I believe there are nine teams um total here and i think around 30
people i'm not exactly sure but everyone but there's quite a quite a big mixture um
a lot some projects that are from web 2 some projects that haven't launched some from other
chains as well chains looking to launch something else on Apdos. And it's really interesting how all their different takes,
they all have different takes, basically.
So you learn quite a lot from speaking to all of them.
There's actually quite a few potential opportunities
for collaboration on both the IP side and technology side
that we're very keen to explore.
Another very exciting thing about Osaka is that
the food is very cheap and there's a lot of good food here you should you should come man
I mean Japan cheap I'm not too sure man the last time I went to Webex and it was raining and food
isn't that cheap especially the taxi bro like Uber is expensive as fuck. Yes, guys. It is so expensive. But you being in Japan,
you guys launching an anime collection,
and then what Zen said, right?
Teaching you guys Masterclass today
about how to target Japanese market.
I think these are some huge things
for you as well, right?
Oh, yeah.
Very huge.
I've actually talked to...
You know why I laugh because like
very huge
yeah
your name is huge
as well
yeah I'm talking to
Jen quite a lot
Jen's very knowledgeable
when it comes to
IPs and everything
so it's great
great learning from her
great effect
like it really helps
I guess helps you
brainstorm
and think about
how we can approach
this better
and what we could
possibly do next
yeah
huge is like, man,
I spent the whole day in masterclass
together with Zen and Zen is here on Spaces as well.
You guys are definitely grinding.
But Zen, since you have, you know,
the, I would say, Web2, Web3 knowledge on IPs,
like what makes or breaks an IP,
especially in Web3?
Yeah, so it's like the community.
Usually, back to all those work
that I've been supporting for the animation,
it's usually just the Web2 things,
like the producer, creators,
decide what we're going to make.
And always we have something from a manga
and turn it into animation.
So it's all just about creators. but why we're building web3 is it's not just creators or producers we have more people
representing the project representing the ip this is the community so every single holder
every single person in a community their opinion opinion values a lot for the whole project.
And I feel like in our community, there are so many holders that are very fascinated by the IP,
probably from Web2 since now.
So this is a brand new stage for them that they can call
build the IP together
which rather than
just being an audience
this is quite a huge thing
yeah
I think
got it
and so for you guys
what are some of the things
that you want to
double down on
to build out this IP
in Web3
yeah
I feel it's the technology.
So we can see there's news every day coming out, like IP, use the blockchain technology
to protect the IP and also to reward the user-generated content.
the user-generated contents.
So with the social media development,
there's so many user-generated contents
that help the IP to really grow that fast.
So I think this is the right method
that we can build an IP
rather than taking years until the manga,
until the comics becoming really popular.
Now we have a more graphic way to help building together.
It's like, why not we build it together and make it more efficient until we really deliver
a decent IP.
Yeah, that is so true.
Because when you look at how Web3 of like fast forward or even accelerate ip
building right you know if you were just to compare what you mentioned you know ip isn't
built on one day and when you go back and look at web2 ip has been for years doing whether it's
manga whether it's animation whether it's selling toys so much of the verticals are built up over
years for people to realize, man, that is a
great IP. By coming into Web3,
I see a lot of great brands
with just maybe one year, two years
that absolutely blow
out on the market purely
because the users or
the people that is holding the NFTs
or holding the IPs out
there, building out great products,
creating different GIFs,
using GIFs in all of the different chats,
and creating UGC.
So how, based on your mind, right?
Zen, back to you.
It's like, how can we encourage people
to be more proactive
for all of the people
who are tuning in right now
that owns one or the other
NFTs on Aptos especially?
How can we motivate these people
to be, I want to be an advocate
for this project going out there
and create UGCs?
Yeah.
There's no more measure
like we have competition
and many others.
But I feel what is more important is like when we say
core building it's not just individual users it's like in big corporates like toho it's also joined
in the industry so for mofo we actually have merchandise from the first day people asking like
oh mofo is a new ip why we already have so many merchandise? Because Toho is joining us building IP together.
They have so many partnerships, like deliver the manufacturers,
deliver the merchandise from 100 years ago, 10 years ago.
So when we build the IP from day one, the corporates,
the big IP holders in Japan from global, they also join us.
So I think this is the whole meaning of whole building. It's not just individuals. It's also like corporates joining us, building together.
So sometimes you can feel this like superpower from the corporates and like as an individual as a holder we can feel this
power from the project itself from the back of the project so the building is like more efficient
rather than just talking about nfts yeah oh right got it uh yeah what's what's your take man um same question is you know encourage
committee members to be more proactive pushing out the ip getting more people into the brand
uh what is some of i would say the initiative that you guys are doing
i think people always like any new things so like in in any change is that is why like people so much like to new nfts for
example because like yesterday it was for example monkeys books and tomorrow i know it's me lady
so in my opinion it's a lot about like how you can build from your community personalities how much a personality is gonna wearing your pvp
and be a part of this because for me for example it's three years of this nfts and i have it on my
phone and it's really me if i have any other collection i know that it's gonna be like one
by one in this style and i know that people can always find me by this profile picture
and that is like what i like to see when brands kind of pushing themselves into like identities
so and more people with uh your brand pvp you have more support for yourself that's that's how I see it and for example these
days on aptos we have like life mean from a person and he building like pandas on aptos and he building
it through his way so he building like merge around these and and you can see right now a lot of pandas
around up to space because they kind of got his wife.
And that is like what's the most important NFT building.
You need to have more personalities around your collection.
Oh, right. Got it.
One question to everybody. Love to get your answers.
I think this is something really insightful.
So guys, please follow all of the speakers up on top because these are the people
that is building out
great IP,
great NFT collection
and pushing the Aptos space.
But one quick question
for everybody
before we wrap up
the second segment
is this.
How can we encourage
more builders
to build their project
on Aptos?
Patrick, over to you.
I think
the most important thing of course is to have
users and to have like some champion projects on Aptos. You need to have like
one or two really big projects on Aptos that have a lot of users and then other
projects will look at that and be like wow okay now I see what Aptos can
actually do and and then they come over you know so that's what i i would focus
on just finding those one two champions and making them as big as possible and supporting them as the
community as well oh right huge how about you yeah very well said um it's i feel like it's to do with
education and demonstration so because i mean aptos is relatively new chain with a lot of new technology.
Even the products on AppDose are building a lot of new things too that you can't do anywhere else.
So you teach people about what's possible and then you show them what's possible.
And I think people get excited with what's new and what could possibly be done.
Oh, right. Got it.
Zen, how about you?
Yeah, I feel like it's more about users, what we really provide to users. So we're talking about
animation, we're talking about IP, but I think it's not just IP, it's not just a ride. It's more like a feeling of belonging.
Like NFC now, it's not the bubble anymore.
It's more about like why you become in the same community,
why we're building on Aptos,
like why there's more builders on Aptos.
There's a feeling of belonging
and also a truth of better technology because only the
blockchain technology can bring us to the next stage. So it's not just about the culture, it's
more about why we choose to be here. And I think when we're trying to answer this,
we're going to encourage more people to join us and build our Aptos together.
Oh, right. Last but not least, Yarr, give me your take.
Like I said before, this space, first of all,
it's about to show to people that after space
pretty open so just just don't be scared to contact anyone in after space I'm sure they're
gonna be glad to chat with you like even the team members and right now we have a lot of like bangers
team members for community like Sneezy for example like there is so much you you can do on aptos just like like a person like a builder even from from
the start you don't need to be a big brand and i think that is the beauty of like early chains like
this that you don't need to be a big company to start something for example i can compare to solana
if you just join to this you can contact anyone right Aptos, it's same vibe from the first day,
and it's the same vibe today. So that is the things why you don't need to be scary to build
Aptos. Oh, right. Nicely said. Guys, man, I think like second hour passed really quick as well,
but shout out to all of the speakers. Huge, Patrick, Yarr, Zen, and also WalkMeExchange, right?
Thank you so much for joining this segment.
And guys,
if you have been tuning in for the last two hours
and you have not done anything on Aptos yet,
highly suggest that you go and check out all of these people.
There's so much things happening in Aptos.
And if it's like,
hey,
you know,
what is the best way to get into a community?
Well,
guys, it's just going and minting NF, what is the best way to get into a community? Well, guys,
it's just going and minting NFTs
or buying on the secondary market, right?
So get into all of these communities.
They are out there
absolutely crushing it.
And once more,
if you guys are heading over to Dubai
next week,
remember to hit Piu Cup.
Aptos is doing an event there as well.
Do show up.
I think like what Yara said man
it's so easy
to contact everybody
and I think
the team
is also happy
to get more builders
up on it as well
alright guys
second segment done
we are going over
to the third segment
which is
DeFi Summer Part 1
there's tons
of DeFi projects
so if you guys
are a DeFi maxi
the next two segments
will be for you guys
it's two hours part one part
two featuring over more than
10 different projects that is building on
Aptos I'm gonna play some tunes while
we transition over to the
third segment so see you guys
in the next 5 to 10
minutes minutes. Bye. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome to the podcast. What do you get over? Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, I feel better, I feel better, I feel better,
I feel better, I feel better, I feel better, I feel better, I feel better, I feel better,
I feel better, I feel better, I feel better, I feel better, I feel better, I feel better,
I feel better, I feel better, I feel better, I feel better, I feel better, I feel better, Oh, yeah. Thank you. I need you to stay, baby, baby I'm gonna let you go this way, baby
I'm gonna let you go, girl, baby
You know the best to do, but let me get up Oh I'm going to go. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, Oh Oh You got me wishin' the way you belong right now Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, All right, guys.
We are back.
Third segment.
Who's pumped?
If you guys are pumped,
please like between the space.
We have come to the third segment
and I feel like this segment, everyone is excited. I see some familiar faces on the space. We have come to the third segment, and I feel like this segment, everyone is excited.
I see some familiar faces on the space.
So I'm excited for this because, man,
DeFi is coming back.
We call this DeFi Summer Part 1
because I know a lot of these projects
I've met in real life as well.
So I'm excited.
Gonna check in first off.
Speakers on my right.
Bro, I'm excited. Gonna check in first off. Speakers on my right. Bro, I'm sorry.
This is the third time that I'm gonna butcher someone's name on Spaces.
But, oh, bro, bro.
You gotta throw me a bone there, man.
It's Alex.
How you doing, man?
Alex, what's up, man?
My name is Alex Hoffman.
So, you know, I'm getting all crypto with the a-hawks instead
no man i mean like when it comes to names that's like man it's hard to pronounce but alex
how you doing how's how's things how's the market uh tell me more man doing well um heading to
dubai in a few hours this is one of the last things I do before I get on a flight to go to Token and go to Dubai for a while.
Man, I don't know where the market is right now, but I can tell you that I'm not stressed about it.
People are telling me we're in a bear market. People are telling me we're in a bull market i kind of see both things as positive so i don't really care
you know like if it's um if it's a bull market great it's ripping we're all making money
if it's a bear market it shakes out the people who aren't very serious in the ecosystem and i
think that's when like the the really great apps gets get built and also it's like the best time
to accumulate right like money is made in the bear
market because you're buying assets when they're low right that's that's where like real real
amounts of money are made so i don't know man i'm just i've just got my head down building
doesn't really change what sort of market we're in for me i mean that is a true mentality of a
builder right like uh end of the day you know
if it's the bull market then you know let's do more you know i would say leaning on to the
narrative hype stuff if it's the bear market let's double down and creating a best product
right um but q1 just passed yeah go ahead man i was just gonna say i've been i've been saying
this a lot on Spaces and whatnot,
and also just to anybody who will listen to me,
but in my opinion, most of the builders in the space,
like 99 plus percent potentially, are really low-quality builders.
And you see this with the fact that on every new chain,
it's just a fork of, every app is like a fork of all the apps
that have already existed. It's like, whatever new chain pops up and great, like somebody's going
and forking Aave and Compound and Uniswap and like whatever. And, you know, I believe that
it's good to have those sorts of builders get shaken out during tough moments, because that's again,
when like true innovation happens, right?
And I believe that we need more high quality builders in the space.
So for me, bear market's a very positive thing.
It allows the space to mature in a really necessary way.
Yeah.
I think it's kind of like a period that you see, you know, all of the high projects that
builds up, get that massive hype,
and then in one or two months' time,
all of a sudden, it's like,
dude, where's that product?
Where's that someone
who was so loud in the space
and then now no more?
And at the end of the day,
I think market is slowly shifting back
to utility kind of stuff.
So I'm seeing Web3 Gaming
is making Wave now,
kind of like Comeback, and also DeFi.
A lot of people have been telling me they are focusing really hard in terms of DeFi, integrating AI, making it good as well.
So man, your take is valid.
But Alex, Q1, what's your highlight?
Oh, man. You know, from an Aptis perspective, I think that Aptis really showed that it has some of the best tech in the space.
I think that also the direction that Aptis has gone, you know, I know there was a bit of a shake up there.
But, you know, now with Avery leading and also with Ash leading ecosystem, I really feel like they're on the right track.
And so it's great to watch them sort of mature as a foundation, as a chain.
I'm very, very bullish on the way that they're going.
And we had at least one pretty good protocol token launch on Aptis.
So that's great because I want to launch protocol token launch on aptis so that's great
because i want to launch a token on aptis at some point um and we need to to show that there's an
appetite for aptis tokens so yeah i mean just watching aptis sort of mature and and really
start doing great things is is amazing for me oh right valid valid take i think like uh it's really
shaping up uh into what people like
and end of the day, where is the liquidity at?
Are people excited on new product that is launching?
Is there on-chain transaction?
And it marks all of the chat box that you guys have.
And it's like, man, this is the right chain to build on.
Okay, I want to pass it over to other speakers as well.
VP, checking in, how are you doing?
Hey, can you guys hear me?
Yep, we can, bro.
But you need to increase a little bit the volume.
I know, Alex, are you using like a crazy spacer setup
with mic and stuff?
Just AirPods, man.
Sometimes they work well, sometimes they don't.
I'm like, man, if you're using, you know,
Rodecaster and all of these,
you totally wreck the market out
and then people is like, they got to scream, bro.
But, but VP, yeah.
Check, check.
You can see me better now.
Yeah, better.
How are you doing, bro?
Doing great.
First of all, like,
great to be here with all of you guys today, especially Alex. We actually shared a bit last night.
Been a minute, though.
Oh, was that? Say that again?
I said it's been a minute, though. We've known each other for a while, but we actually haven't talked in a while.
He hit me up last night and was like, hey, we're on this space tomorrow. It's like, awesome.
Yeah, it's awesome to
see you know like familiar faces again uh but um overall everything everything is great uh i mean
this is my first time on the space so i'm really glad to be here with uh with all of you guys
talking about our appos and d5 definitely we have been seeing like a lot of development within the
ecosystem um i see a lot more builder and projects coming in.
And honestly, I didn't expect we have that many people in the space.
So definitely a good side.
Great to be here.
Great to talk to you guys.
Yep, for sure.
I think if you guys just tune in, this space runs for four hours.
And right now, we are segment number three.
So it's going to be the third hour,
and just looking at some of the comments
people are making, it's like, man, it's
vibrant, right? You know for a fact that
if everyone rallies together and joins
spaces, which is so rare
these days, you know that people are excited.
But VP, back to you.
What makes you
excited for Aptos, especially in 2025?
I think, like,
so, I mean,
obviously, I have been in Aptos, like,
since the very beginning, and
for me, you know, like,
we went through, you know,
like, a brutal bear market in 2022,
and then, you know, like, the whole
2023, 2024,
it's, the market has kind of slowed down, and, you know, we see a lot of like new narratives coming in and out.
But like zooming out, you know, like for me, like seeing AppTorce growing from day one to now, you know, from just purely like infrastructure to like a lot more projects that coming into system, building in like DeFi, trading, NFT, all kinds of stuff.
I think that's not the good side.
And AppTorce has a great technology.
And the technology is gonna be like the infrastructure,
the backbone for a lot of application,
a lot of real use case going up.
So like now with A like, you know, Avery, like taking
the driver's seat
and, you know,
seeing a lot of like
new faces,
new projects in the protocol,
definitely bullish on Aftosh
and, you know,
we can wait to see,
you know,
what everyone is building here.
You know what?
I love it when you mentioned
that you've been
at the start of the beginning,
right?
And up to now,
you're still in the ecosystem pushing out your products. Like, what was the main key factor for you, VP? the start of the beginning, right? And up to now, you're still in the ecosystem,
pushing out your products.
Like, what was the main key factor for you, VP,
that you'd be like, man, this is it.
You know, I don't want to move to other ecosystem
because I see so many people, you know,
they build a product, then they move it, you know,
to one chain, come back to the next,
and then just like trying to hop and stuff like that.
But you, it's still here since the start up to now.
What if someone asked you, why Aptos?
What would you say?
Definitely number one is the technology.
I have been trying multiple ecosystems before Aptos,
from Ethereum to Solana to other layer two.
So Aptos has the best user experience
for all the applications they use.
So definitely technology is number one.
And second, it's more personal reason when,
like I said, I was in Aptos from day one
and I feel a little bit old to be honest,
seeing like many new faces, like new younger people,
like younger builders coming
into space.
But what I saw is the same people I saw on day one, they are still here today.
So definitely the ecosystem is growing, the community is growing, but old builders still
stay with the ecosystem.
I think that's a good sign.
Nobody's leaving, just more people coming.
So definitely a bullet on that.
All right.
Got it.
You're not old, bro.
As long as you are still active,
you are still going to events,
you're still hopping on spaces,
you're young.
Because I'm not too...
Alex is like, yeah.
No worries.
We're not going to have
an itch war here, guys.
Pretty sure I got a few years on VP,
but I'm not sure.
Not positive,
but I'm pretty sure I do
he looks younger than me
that's for sure
bro bro
that's the Asian jeans
talking dude
that's it
I know
these Caucasian jeans
are not doing anything
for me
my level
might say different thing
but I'm glad
I got the Asian things
on my face
alright got it
in Web 2
we call it O,
in Web3,
we call it Season Builders, bro.
So, no worries.
You guys are all Season Builders.
Alright,
I want to pass it over to
Coffee,
checking in.
Who's behind the account?
Hello, hello.
Hello, hello.
How are you, bro?
I'm great.
Yeah, this is
Wagmin speaking,
founder of Coffee Finance.
You do remember me, right,
bro? Yeah, of course.
You were at the coffee event.
Yes, and I was interviewing you.
I mean, man, that event was
a banger. Hopefully, you like the video
we produced for you, but
love to get your
input, right? Especially, you know, you being in Southeast Asia, going to all of the different AppSource
events, getting people interested, you know, doing events and get, I would say, you know,
attracting new people into the ecosystem.
How has it been for you guys this year so far?
You know, building on AppSource is one, but second is, you know, pushing out your products
out there, not just for the Aptos folks, but also
more or new people from different ecosystems coming in and testing out your products.
Tell me more on that.
Yeah, to be honest, the event that we hosted in Bangkok was the first Aptos event we've
attended and hosted at the same time.
And I think it was great i think it really
showed showcased how powerful apptourses technology is to uh to be on boarded to and
the amazing ux of it so for those of you that weren't aware we created this like a mini
For those of you that weren't aware, we created this mini app that integrated EmojiCoin,
where users could come to the cafe that we host our event and use EmojiCoin available and yeah powered by after keyless technology
and like uh gasless transactions and i think overall most people enjoyed the experience and
like outside of what we are doing at uh at coffee which is liquid staking we just want to
grow the ecosystem in the general sense. Yeah.
Got it.
I think, you know,
when you talk about getting new people in,
it's always best not to just talk about it,
but getting people to experience the app, right?
And I was there testing out the app, so easy to get an account,
sign up, you know, purchase a coffee.
I think that user experience of onboarding people,
you know, just how seamless,
you would just think it's another app
without any blockchain behind it.
So I think like that is massive kudos to you.
I'm going to pass it to other speakers as well.
Let's cover everyone first
before we go into like really,
okay, just kidding,
like but DeFi question, all right?
I want to pass it over to Exo.
Yo, bro, GM. Yo, gm how are you bro i'm doing absolutely amazing i hope now you remember me when we met in hong kong right
i dude i remember you know the funny story is that you know we did spaces and then the next
week itself um i went to hong kong and I met you during the Aptos event.
I was like, man.
And Alex, no worries.
I'm going to go to Dubai as well.
So same thing for you.
You're talking to me on Spaces this week.
Next week, I will see you in the Aptos event.
Definitely hit me up.
Yep, for sure.
But Exo, you know,
the last we've spoken on Spaces,
up to now,
what's something exciting for you, man?
Yeah, so there, like, multiple things
which we have been cooking and building.
So we launched this Move AI agent kit.
On top of it, we hosted a special, like,
agent hackathon, specifically on Aptos.
And so around 150 projects participated and built on top of our kit.
And we integrated almost each and every top protocol.
So that is one of the most interesting thing, I guess, which has happened since last we
spoke.
Then we launched a few more new features on Juul and and yeah
of course Len and Aptos is like continuously bombarding us with new
updates new tech upgrades new community so it's been crazy overall man so yeah
and and this year what is something that you guys want to double down on?
Yes.
So this year particularly, it would be really important for us as a protocol and product overall.
Because we are kind of shaping our product into very important stuff as a user for whoever wants to enter into aptos ecosystem so there are many more things which are lined up and soon we'll be revealing
it one by one uh from jewel finance all right got it peck you're up next how are you doing
all right i'm good i'm josh March, I'm the president of PAC Labs.
Great to be on.
For sure, man.
First off, gotta ask you, so far building on Aptos,
how does it feel like?
Yeah, it's been awesome.
We were originally building on Cello,
but switched over, joined the Aptos community a year ago,
started working really hand in hand with the
community team and lots of people on the Aptos Labs Foundation team as they were kind of helping us
really incubate the kind of new version of PACT that we've launched. And we've had a great Q1,
we brought a billion dollars of private credit on chain, uh, in emerging markets, um, and kind of launched
the first of our, the first of our products.
Um, and we've just been blown away by how great the Aptos team have been and how
great the technology has been.
I mean, we were hitting like a thousand transactions per second at some points,
bringing on like huge originators with no problems.
Um, so we've, we've had a great experience and we're super excited for the year ahead.
Awesome, man.
Josh, just to ask you,
like, you know,
you're talking about all of the crazy,
I would say, transactions that's happening.
You know, these are real valid people using the app.
Like, how do you see, you know,
going forward in 2025?
Is it more people coming into the ecosystem?
Is it an ecosystem that, you ecosystem that liquidity is being pumped in?
I'd love to get your input on that.
Yeah, I mean, look, a big part of our initial focus
has been around kind of loan origination, right?
And making it easy for people in emerging markets
to be given loans cheaply and easily in the real world,
but using blockchain technology,
more powered by Aptos, and have had a big focus on,
hey, how do we enable end user wallets
and people to be able to take Web3 loans
in the real world?
And I think there's a lot of really exciting stuff
that we're going to see happen this year.
There's so much excitement in emerging markets
about being able to have Web3 wallets
and stores of value and remittances and everything else.
So I think that's one big strand that's happening.
And then, yeah, the other thing that we're really excited about is just like in the U.S., the shifting regulatory landscape and kind of attitude here is just meaning that there's this push to like tokenize everything. Right. And we're excited about the opportunities to really democratize finance by
bringing a lot of like really cool, investable real world assets on chain
and making them easy for retail investors to invest into in ways that just like
haven't been possible before.
So I think, I think it's actually really like cool from both sides and we're
going to see, um, you know, see um you know more opportunities for like normal people to invest into really cool stuff and more opportunities for like
end borrowers and people around the world to get access to financial products that they just
couldn't otherwise yeah when you talk about you know on-chain loans is there you know specific
regions that has been you know utilizing this um to build out different products?
Is there any specific focus for you?
Yeah, and we've been operating in South America and in Africa.
Those are the kind of two biggest.
We've been involved in some stuff in India.
It's a little bit harder from a regulatory perspective over there,
but we're excited about India long term as well.
All right, got it.
I'm in Asia, so definitely I think Asia would be a key market for you guys as well. Alright, got it. I'm in Asia, so definitely I think
Asia would be a key market
for you guys as well.
Alright, I want to pass it
over to Super Kings. Checking in, how are you doing?
Hello, everyone. Doing good.
How are you? Good.
Man, everybody gives fire takes,
so are you ready to top
all of their takes?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, maybe you can share a little bit, you know,
what you are building and, you know,
how has, you know, building on Aptos impacted you?
Yeah, so I'm CSK from Hyperion.
We're building a hybrid order book AMM decks
natively on Aptos. We're trying to converge an AM a hybrid order book AMM decks natively on Aptos.
We're trying to converge an AMM and order book
into a unified trading stack.
So previously, we actually benchmarked ourselves
with Hyperliquid.
Of course, they're like one of the very successful
prop decks, but however, highly centralized to an extent.
So at Hyperion, we want to become the open source
all the book decks powered by Aptos infrastructure.
And we think that this can only be implemented on Aptos
because of the object-centric model
and also the parallel execution that Aptos enable
so that it can support high frequency trading
and also complex DeFi operations.
So I was not lucky as VP
that I was not in the Aptos since the beginning,
but I feel very, very lucky to join this journey
and build on Aptos. the beginning, but I feel very, very lucky to join this journey and build on Aptos.
Well, no worries. The fact that you are here shows that, man, we are all excited to be on Aptos.
Okay, guys, make the rounds. Next off, feel free to raise your hand if you want to chime in, right?
I think I call this segment DeFi Summer Part 1. It's because I've been hearing tons of people
telling me that DeFi is coming back
but not in a way that
it's the past few years
but just
innovating ways
to do it differently
launching NFTs
for DeFi
integrating AI
love to get your input
on where the DeFi market
is going
and how Aptos
is able to empower it
Alex
back to you.
Sorry, I was trying to get unmuted there. So, you know, you touched on an interesting thing there on NFTs for DeFi. Like one of the teams that we're working with right now, we're starting
to shift heavily into RWAs and there's
some like super cool projects, people really doing, you know, they're, they're really using
blockchain for, for like interesting needs that actually make sense in my opinion.
So a couple of them are, there's a, there's a family that both has a massive art collection.
They own like themselves they own
i think the third most expensive painting in the world it's a da vinci um and they own overall like
i think it's 1.2 billion dollars of art and then they have galleries and they have storage facilities
as well and they hold you know i think billions of billions maybe tens of
billions more of other people's art as well and they want to leverage this art so you know one
of the things we're working on with them right now is like how do you turn that art into an nft
not that not that anybody else could own but just so that you can ascribe value to that and then
build that into the lending market so they can
borrow against it because
they'll probably end up being able to do that
more easily and
be able to get better rates
borrowing against
that in DeFi.
There's a lot of cool things like that
we're working on. Another one is
these guys who are
digitizing the entire horse events category. So everything other than horse racing, all of the
other things involved, it's apparently very, very web one, not even web two. It all looks like AOL.
And this market has not been disrupted at all for some reason. So you've got billions and billions of dollars around the world that is spent on this
stuff every year. And these people are using like 20 year old tech to manage the backend,
to do the payment processing, et cetera. And so these guys are, they're buying up these tech
providers that have been around for 30 years, putting their tech in there,
bringing all the payments and everything on chain, but then they're creating like 360
wraparound for it, where, you know, they are going to allow people to leverage their horses,
for example, right? They'll be doing the same sort of thing where we create NFTs for horses,
because some of these horses are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars if they're, you know,
if they're successful horses. And so they should be able to borrow against that value right so i
think there's a lot of cool stuff being built right now that that is finally like utilizing
defy to its fullest potential and like i'm just excited to be part of it we've got a lot of awesome
partners yep i think like you know everyone's sentiment is like the market is slowly moving to utility, right?
And when you look at utility, RWA, tokenizing what PEC is doing, tokenizing whether it's loans.
Yesterday, I was on the spaces and Open Campus was just talking about tokenizing student loans.
I think these are all the impact that really matters
besides the hype cycle that's happening, right?
So that is a valid point.
But for you itself, you know,
when you're building out, you know,
especially SuperPerfs, right?
SuperPerfs 5, what would be,
what would be, I would say,
the main focus when you adapt,
you know, to different narratives
and making sure that, hey,
this is the narrative that people actually care
and it's solving real-life problems
that people actually give a shit about.
Because oftentimes,
I see a lot of products are being out there
and they build out these crazy white paper products
and there's no users or
there's no real use case applications yeah you definitely just hit a soft spot for me um so we
have not changed our narrative at all and i think that we were too early for what we were doing but
i'm watching the markets start to adopt it on at greater level. You know, what we came in to do originally was to manage.
So what Superposition does is it's a different sort of money market.
It doesn't like fork Aave or Compound,
like virtually everything else out there.
And then basically everything uses their risk model,
which is like when you go on something like that,
or Aries or Echelon or whatever, Meso on Aptus,
and you look, you see, okay, I can borrow up to 80% against my ETH,
or I can borrow up to 70% against my APT.
So what Superposition does is it basically just uses the best practices
from TradFi that have been being used for the past 35 years.
It's what's called a dynamic risk model as opposed to a static risk model.
So it's basically just like evaluating your entire portfolio and saying, okay, how much can this person borrow?
What is the risk?
And at the end of the day, you're always allowed to borrow more.
And you have a way, way, way lower chance of liquidation. We liquidate like 100th to 1000th of the amount that Aave and compound style models do. is amazing because it's starting to get a lot of attention, right? Like a, one of those models
could not handle this sort of stuff that I was just talking about with, you know, taking loans
against real world assets. I think real world assets, other sorts, not just these are finally
starting to get adopted. There's finally good ones coming on board and there's so much opportunity
there. And so, you know, like this again, it's sort of a comment on builders in general.
It's like, stick to your guns.
If you're doing something interesting,
stick to your guns.
And like, it's hard starting companies.
I've been doing it for 12 years, right?
It's like, you know, some of them fail,
but the ones that people will stick around,
as long as they've got a good idea
and can get enough attention for it,
usually win at the end of the day.
And so, I don't know.
I don't like that idea of switching narratives.
As long as you've got something
that you really know works,
just grind until you make it work, right?
100%.
I think I heard this one phrase from my friend, right?
There's many ways to kill a chicken.
So, you know, if method one don't work, it's? There's many ways to kill a chicken. So, you know,
if method one don't work,
it's okay.
You know,
you can either strangle
a chicken heck
or you can just use a chop,
a knife to cut off the head.
So, yes.
Make it work.
Do not shift the narrative.
And I think, like,
if you believe in something,
keep on pushing out there
and making sure
that the product is great
without, you know,
chasing too much hype narrative.
I think, like, end of the day, it really it really speaks out for it so thank you so much for that
take i mean if it's not just if you believe in it but like if you know it's a good product and
there is market demand or will be market demand like it takes time to build good things right
every i think you know again with this low-quality builder thing,
people just think, okay, I'm going to go build this thing
that somebody else did or whatever.
It's this idea I have.
And like, oh man, if I don't have a token
that's successful in four months,
then I'm out of here, on to the next thing.
And I think as a space, we need to evolve past that.
Yep, 100%.
I saw hand raise.
Guys, I have a soft spot for people raising their hand,
and so if you raise their hand, I'm going over to
you, okay? Alright,
Pact, yes, tell me more.
Yeah, obviously, music to my ears
talking about tokenization
of RWAs and
real-world impact. One of the reasons
I've always just been super excited about
what we're doing at Pact is because
it's actually having impact in the real world for real borrowers and and kind of expanding the pie as
opposed to just kind of everything circular inside inside web3 um and i think like loans are a really
great example of of where the the benefits of blockchain is really really visible you know
there's just so many intermediaries in traditional lending and especially especially when you're doing talking about securitization right so like
structured products which obviously got a kind of a bit of a bad rap in the 2008 financial crisis
um but you know there's lots of reasons for the for the problems that happens in mortgages that
just aren't reflective of of the benefits that structured products bring in general.
And yeah, many people don't realize, but like, yeah, CLOs, which have collateralized loan
obligations, like in the U S for corporate debt, like there's lots of those tranches
and CLOs that have, that have never defaulted ever.
These are like really secure investments, including in the 2008 crisis, um, that people
just like, don't realize
are great investments and take a look at that right that's exactly what maple's doing right
exactly yeah maple yeah maple's a great example what they're doing is super super cool um and
yeah one of the one of the things we're doing at pact is we're like hey like if we could if we
could enable securitization in emerging markets, that could really lower the cost of borrowing for people around the world.
And it's been really, really hard to do
because there's a lot of audit trail issues, transparency issues.
And we're like, hey, if we just move the entire loan origination process
onto the blockchain, then you can create structured products
and securitize those loan books basically instantly at no cost.
And that just has a huge impact on the world.
So we're super excited. And I completely agree with Alex that when you have something that you know can add real value, you've just got to grind away and make it happen. And it can take
time, but you just got to stay true. Yeah. And you know, one fun fact, like just speaking to
all of you guys, right? Like the application is not really just, you know, paperwork that, you know, nobody gives a shit about,
but it is actually using blockchain technology
to solve real world problems.
But sometimes, you know, these aren't, I would say,
sexy enough to sell the narrative in crypto Twitter, right?
So back to you, Josh, like, you know,
it's really important, I would say, you know,
what you guys are trying to do when it's targeting, you know, the original, I would say, the Web2 market in solving problems,
yet making sure that, hey, you know, this is an initiative that people know in Web3. Like,
how do you manage, you know, Web2 and Web3 kind of like hype stuff?
Yeah, I think, you know, it can be challenging, right? because part of what we do is we go and speak with
originators who are kind of web 2 originators and we're giving them the pitch to kind of transition
over to web 3 and there are people who've been burnt a little bit you know by the various cycles
that have happened already i i think that the one benefit right now is just like it's just what's
happening and from a regulatory perspective and especially in the us and just this kind of broader shift that we're seeing including in
trad fi which you know people in web3 don't always like but the fact that kind of trad
fire getting on board is actually i think um a kind of stamp of approval for a lot of people who
aren't who aren't kind of web3 native and is making it much easier to bring, to bring people into the world.
So, so overall, I think that's really positive.
I got this just for my own personal interests.
Like what, what do you think about tokenizing like student loads?
I think that, um, I think that there's lots of opportunity, uh, in private credit.
Right.
And I think like one of the things that we think a lot about
and what's gone wrong in tokenizing real-world assets before,
you can always tokenize a real-world asset
and make it available for institutional investors.
And you are decreasing intermediaries and improving the system.
But ultimately, if it's just tokenizing an off-chain product
that is still pretty illiquid,
then it's institutional to institutional.
You're not really changing the game for most people.
So one of the things we think a lot about is,
what do you need to do to make products that are liquid
and easy to invest in by normal investors?
And sometimes that's about technical product design and how do you
actually design these things or separate them or create markets that these things
can be liquid.
And again, some of the stuff that Maples have done on that is actually really,
really cool with syrup.
Um, and the other part is from a regulatory perspective and Hey, sometimes you
got to do the hard work to get the securities filing, to do the regulatory
work so that people can actually invest into that. And again, I think that's,
we're benefiting a lot from the regulatory environment today that's making that easier.
I think you just hit on something really important that like, it took me like six months to figure
this out when I got into DeFi a few years ago, which is that like a lot of what's being built
is really just ways to capture a small amount
of money for people who are already making a ton of money for these institutional users.
They're like, oh man, I can make another half a percent if I do it this way on chain.
And I'm much more bullish on the sort of stuff that you're doing, which is like, I
got into this space to help democratize finance and to make these opportunities more available
to more people.
And so I love what you guys are doing
because that's exactly that.
Yeah, 100%.
That's the vision, right, for all of us.
So we've got to make it a reality.
All right.
Awesome, awesome takes.
Thank you for that, Alex and Josh.
I want to pass it over to Weepy.
I'd love to get your takes, man,
in terms of how do you see DeFi moving forward?
What are some key narratives
that with the implementation of DeFi,
you're able to solve real-world problems?
Over to you, VP.
We're to hear all of you guys' take on this.
And for me,
I'm glad you guys brought up utility.
So for me, I've been like four years in in crypto and indefi and uh you know the
whole crypto space it has been narrative driven or like you know incentive farming driven for a long
time like for you you can see from ecosystem to ecosystem from project to project it's uh it's
usually about you know like like one project they're forking each other and then you know bringing a lot of like incentive to attract users and you
know like we see a lot of like machinery capital moving around between project to project so i feel
like you know recently it's get to a point when you know people like value utility a lot more
people uh come to realize you know the the the sustainable project uh with um the
sustainable revenue uh like a profitable business model it's gonna be um a norm it's not what people
want to be uh want to value a lot more so i'm glad the industry the defies and moving into that way
um that's what you know and that was also you know what we we try to to achieve at Merkle.
We don't try using a lot of incentive just to attract people to come and use it.
We want to build a sustainable business model for people with real users and real use case for Levi.
The second point, I think I want to touch it.
It's more of like my personal tech.
So if you remember, like before we have before the market collapsed,
we had like the AI agent mania very short.
But I think like AI and AI in general and AI agent coming to DeFi,
it's going to be like a big push for DeFi in the future.
I think it's going to come back like big push for DeFi in the future. I think it's going to come back.
AI bring a lot of utility,
increase productivity and efficiency for DeFi projects.
So I think with the development of AI in the future,
it's going to help DeFi getting more capital efficiency,
more use case, more utility,
and processing a lot more than the current stage.
All right. Thank you so much for that. Yeah, go ahead. I just want to jump in and add something
to where just VP said capital efficiency, because I think capital efficiency should be something
that we really focus right now. We can see that Aptos actually has a very, very high TVL, like 1 billion
above. But we can also see that the trading volume doesn't really catch up with the growth
of the TVL. So Alex just mentioned about loan and also about tokenization, that we really
don't want those assets just sitting idle on Aptos.
We really want to grow the TVL utilization ratio and make fully use of all the assets that are
currently moving around on Aptos. So capital efficiency is a very, very important metric
to measure the growth and also the development status of DeFi.
to measure the growth and also the development status of DeFi.
Got it, got it. Oh wow. All right. Axel, you raise your hand. Go ahead.
Yes, absolutely. So yeah, again, like I would like to give an extension to whatever
she mentioned. Yeah, there is a lot of capital which is maybe kind of idle or maybe it's not brought to the real use, but
using like some AI agents and a layer of that would really help everyone.
Let's say maybe it would be users, institutions or DAOs to make their money work efficiently
and also simultaneously helping them managing the risk so that is what
agents layer which are which is uh like i am very bullish on when we are personally building it
uh on jewel finance so in the coming a few weeks you will see a entire different way or narrative
of how a user will interact with a DeFi platform.
Not just a platform, but eventually the entire app-toff chain and how money can be moved
efficiently.
That too with managed risk is what we are absolutely focused on.
All right.
All of firetakes.
I do have a general question for all of you guys.
So just feel free to raise your hand and I will pass it over to you.
But looking at, you know, we are right now shifting our focus,
talking a lot about, hey, you know, where liquidity is at,
you know, what kind of real problems are we solving?
All of this initiative, does it interest, you know, the Web3 people
or it's all the strategy that we are right now implementing,
it's more towards onboarding the mess into it.
Because like day to day, I've been seeing, you know,
the same people talking about the same stuff,
you know, the same KOL, who posting on something.
And I don't know if it's just me
or feels like, you know, the market right now
is lack of new people coming in.
Love to get your texts
because all of you guys are building out
your DeFi, whether it's a platform,
whether it's a project, but
we are constantly finding more
users as well. So I want to pass
it to maybe
Exo first. Go ahead.
Exo, you there?
Check, check.
Alright.
You there, bro?
Hello.
Hello, yeah, yeah.
You're back.
Yeah.
I guess I'll leave and join again, I guess.
Just a second.
Okay, okay.
Got it.
No worries.
Just click on the request button.
Yes, you can continue.
I'll pass it over to Kofi then.
Kofi, go ahead.
Sorry, can you repeat your question?
The question is
are the problems that we are trying to solve
as it's all real-world problems
and utility that we're trying to provide?
Is it more towards the strategy for DeFi projects now
that we want to get more attention from Web2,
more grassroots staff,
entering different countries,
doing events, doing hackathons,
and stuff like that to bring more users in?
Or the strategy is to cater for the Web3 people?
I feel the ultimate strategy for all projects is really to gain mass adoption.
So I think Web3 users are still a small percentage of all users on the internet
or even transacting with finance.
So definitely tapping on the pool of Web2 users will be a smart strategy for like any any project out there
trying to build yeah using blockchain technology um i think uh before before kofia i've always
been to a few uh hackathons so i've always been going to hackathons so um from that perspective i do uh like from the
hackathon going perspective we always try to build uh products that solve uh real world problems and
i i guess that's how i also view uh building uh coffee and other and in any like products related to blockchain.
So it's really customer or rather consumer first, because I guess like if you if you
look from the consumer point of view, you get to like identify real problems.
And when you solve real problems, you are creating value in it.
And I think, yeah,
that's how you should like start your business, right?
By solving, by creating value,
by solving problems.
Got it.
And for you guys, you know,
I think like we talk about, you know,
you during Hackathon,
making it, you know, easy think we talk about you during Hackathon,
making it easy and accessible for people. When you're really
wanting to target Web2 or
onboarding, it's got to be as
simple as possible for people to
come in. So what will be
your strategy to target
the people that is not crypto
savvy, yet easy for them
to understand and get them into DeFi?
So I think on Aptos specifically,
there's a lot of tooling
that makes the Web3 experience
very Web2-like.
For example, the Aptos Connect,
you can basically just use your Google login and
basically create a crypto account or rather a wallet that is attached to your Google account.
So there are a lot of fun things you can do with this in the web tool space for consumer apps.
For example, when you go to a restaurant,
these days you can scan a QR code and access a menu.
So what if after you scan this QR code,
you get to log in with Google?
But in the back end, you are actually accessing
your web-free wallet.
So yeah, so you can see right away
that because of this onboarding
experience, people can actually onboard to crypto without actually realizing it.
Without actually realizing it, where like, where it's like accessing a QR code
menu is like what people do on a day-to-day basis
when they go out to eat, right?
Yeah, so my point is the infrastructure is actually there.
You just need like builders to piece these things together
and create user-centric products.
That was a great take.
VP, I saw you raise your hand.
Yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, I'm glad like Coffee bring that up because at MoCo, we have a term.
So Web2 user is our target.
But before getting mass adoption
and getting more Web2 user,
we try to get like 2.5 users.
I mean, from our vertical of PerpDex, we try to, it's on our Q2Go as well, we try to target more,
acquire more users who use a centralized exchange and try to bring them to DeFi and use DeFi
application more. Last quarter, we did a lot of survey,
a lot of user interview with retail people who use Web2,
use centralized chains like Binance, OKEx.
And we asked them, why don't they use DeFi?
What is the reason behind that?
And we all have the same answer.
DeFi Stack, it's still a bit complicated for retail user.
So as a project, you know, it's our goal to make it more simple,
to make DeFi experience more alive with centralized exchange experience,
make it easier for retail people to use,
and, you know, being more innovative in attracting users.
And also one thing is that in Web3 and DeFi,
user, it's complicated in managing wallet,
it's complicated in handling between different chains.
So at MoCo, we try to tackle that by applying,
using the Google login or using the know, like using the direct deposit
from like any chains to in and out,
at those.
So those type of experience,
you know, like it's like abstraction,
chain abstraction.
And, you know, like it's getting to a point
when we try to solve like the difficulty
of using like Web3 set for retail users.
All right.
Thank you so much for that.
All right.
Hands raised. I got a soft spot, much for that. All right. Hands raised.
I got a softball,
as I said.
I'm going to pass it over
to Alex first
and then Kofi.
Alex, go ahead.
Yeah.
I mean,
respectfully,
I feel like we're kind of
asking the question
the wrong way, right?
Like this is,
everybody's talking about
bringing the next billion users
on chain,
but like,
I don't think hackathons
are how you get that. That's how you get, you know, the next set of developers on chain but like i don't think hackathons are how you get that that's how
you get you know the next set of developers on chain um and i don't i don't know if anybody on
this call is really solving this problem i know we're not um and sometimes i kick myself it's
like why why are we not doing this because the the issue is more from a wallet perspective, in my opinion. And then, like, you guys ever try to explain a wallet
to somebody who is not DeFi native?
It's like, what the hell are you talking about?
What's an on-ramp? What's an off-ramp?
It's like, this core tooling needs to be built up more than it is.
And then, in my opinion, we need to go after certain
low-hanging fruit users. Like, like, for
example, what Pact is doing, you know, they're, they're bringing these sorts of, of loans and
products to like a great user base. It's really low hanging fruit. Um, I think the way that you
need to do that is by doing it in a very simple stripped down way, abstracting all of the blockchain out of it.
You even talk about blockchain to 99% of the world and they're like, I don't know what that is.
Like, I'm not interested.
And so I feel like we're attacking it from the wrong way.
And there's actually something else I'm working on that is really, really focused on consumers in this way.
And just making the experience so simple that they don't have to think about AP or whatever they don't have to know about that they just see it all in dollars
where they get to use these rails oh right got it thank you so much for that um i want to pass
it over to pack first yeah yeah i mean look alex basically said everything i wanted to say then so
thanks alex but yeah we have that exact same that's our exact approach especially when we're
looking at kind of a wallet for an end borrower
and emerging markets.
Like, you've just got to abstract everything away.
This is basically just your bank account on your app.
You know, it's a way of getting value and transitioning it.
And you've just got to make everything completely seamless.
And you've got to just hide as much of the kind of Web3 native
functionality as possible so that the end user is just
getting value and moving around.
And that's it. right uh exo go ahead
yo am i audible now hello yep loud and clear go ahead nice nice oh yeah so you mentioned like
uh maybe what uh initiatives or like these hackathons do really matter
on ground and stuff.
So as like I recently did one, I will for sure say that it matters to an extent.
I'll give two valid reasons why.
One is, let's say whenever, if you don't have money, let's say you don't have UHDT,
UHDC, until then you won't think of it like investing or getting involved in DeFi.
So now how does one start to earn into this Web3 ecosystem?
Either by being a developer or maybe like doing any other non-tech activities.
And so I guess these hackathons and all these things are kind of an entry gate to whatever
an ecosystem does or a chain does.
And then later on, of course, come this part of abstracting all the complexities of blockchain uh which like alex mentioned uh and
and like few others mentioned over here so that comes at a very later stage but before that there
should be a basic understanding about like what all this is about uh unless that they won't know
like even they won't get an idea even like why do they need the wallet
or why do they need to onboard or what is defy if i don't have money uh or if i don't have usdt or
usdc on my end i would never think of d5 or what strategies and i would really never care of it
so i my thinking is kind of from a very uh first principle thinking like what exactly is
the root cost from where we can shape the entire thing and so i guess for that similar thing we
did uh one of the uh one of the move biggest uh developers like onboarding wherein we uh had a chat with 10 000 developers under a single roof
and told them about aptos and how crazy uh and amazing this tech is and from there i'm for sure
there are many people who have started learning more language and eventually they will onboard
they will earn money and then they will invest in d5 on aptos so that's how we look forward
all right got it thank you so much for that.
I know time is up,
but I do want to pass it over to Super Kings.
I know everybody raised their hand,
but have not heard from you more.
Love to hear, for example, for you,
where do you see DeFi is going to?
Let's end with that question with you.
Yeah, thank you.
So I actually want to say that I think targeting
Web2 and Web3
customers can work in parallel.
It really depends on
what the product status is.
So for example,
on Hyperion,
we have a concentrated
liquidity market-making model,
I think, which is very, very difficult
for Web2 users to understand.
They wouldn't even know how to rebalance their position and maximize their years out of the
liquidity provision.
To address that bottleneck, we need to develop a more simplified product status for those
Web2 users or even some Web3 users that are not really DeFi experts for them to participate
in it.
So recently we launched a Vault marketplace that welcomes all the DeFi strategists to come over and launch their vault
strategy. So what this product means for retails, so it's basically just a zap in and then
so basically it's a one-click DeFi strategy for retail users to participate in the on-chain yield farming. So we are able to share more details in the coming weeks.
But I think Aptos is already a very, very retail user-friendly chain.
Like the transaction fees are very, very low.
And also the transaction speed are very, very fast.
And even you withdraw assets from central exchange back to Aptos, it can easily be done
within seconds.
I think we heard a lot of compliments on that from our users.
So I would like to see more innovative DeFi applications building on top of Aptos, including
especially on the tokenization side that Alex and Pat
just mentioned, and really bring more real-world use case back to the Aptos and drive the user
adoption.
Right, guys. Thank you so much for that. Man, this was a banger, banger space. I know when
everybody raised a hand, you know
that conversation is good. So shout out
to all of the speakers.
Alex,
Superking, EXO,
VP, Coffee, Pack,
Josh, thank you so much for
joining in. Hope you enjoy this one
hour with us. And to the audience down
below, if you like the conversation so far,
do like,
retweet the space.
We have one more hour left
talking about
DeFi Summer Part 2.
So stay tuned.
I'm going to play some tunes
while we transition over
to the last segment.
See you guys
in the next
two to three minutes.
Thanks for having us, babe. I'm in this bitch, can't feel my face, I'm in this bitch, been up two days, now I hit
the switch, let's go.
Gotta get the bag, well I got the wrist, throw phone, don't call, yeah I'm off the grid, lay low Can't feel my face, I'm in this bitch, been up two days, now I hit the switch, let's go
Gotta get the bag, well I got the wrist, no phone, don't call, yeah I'm off the grid, lay low
Not around the food I don't want to fool I don't want to fool
I don't want to fool
I don't want to fool
I don't want to fool Thank you. Let's go Gotta get the bag, well I got the wrist, no phone, don't call ya, I'm off the grid, lay low
Can't feel my face, I'm in this bitch, been up two days, now I hit the switch, let's go
I'm in this bitch, been up two days, now I hit the switch, let's go
Better get the bag, well I got the wrist, no phone, don't call you, I'm off the grid,
let's go
GMGM GM, GM.
Woo!
I don't know about you all, but I learned a bunch.
You know, if I didn't know enough about Aptos,
I 100% have learned that much more about Aptos right now.
So I think, like, before it starts,
yo, if you enjoy it yourself,
everything's pinned up on top, right?
This is the final segment of the day. We are about to talk about DeFi Summer Part 2. like before it starts basis yo if you enjoy yourself everything's pinned up on top right
this is the final segment of the day we are about to talk about d5 summer part two so
much so much has happened drop a like send some love drop a comment especially a comment
but you know more importantly i mean send me some flowers like you know your boy 100
loves loves flowers so you know i'm just to leave it at that. All right. More importantly, let's do a round of introductions.
Some new, some old.
Actually, I thoroughly stalked everybody as best as I can.
But yeah, to my right man, Panora.
Welcome to the stage.
Hey, everyone.
So glad to be part of this space here.
This is Shraddha. I'm the co-founder of Panora.
No, please, please go ahead. Yeah, please continue.
No, I was just saying, so glad to be part of this space.
Looking forward to the interesting comments from all the speakers.
And yeah, just wanted to say hi
100 uh we're gonna give an intro as well you know what's what's panora about uh thank you for that
you know uh yeah sure i'll i'll just talk about what uh what panora is all about so we are a
dex aggregator on aptos uh we are pretty much integrated with all the dexes uh so our proprietary
routing algorithm provides best rates and routes to our users.
So we're just trying to maximize the returns to all the users
who are trying to swap on Aptos by providing the best rates
through, again, like I mentioned, through our routing algorithm.
There are a lot of campaigns that are ongoing right now
where users can earn rewards.
So we definitely urge everybody on this space
to go and check them out.
So yeah, that's about Panora.
Thank you for that.
Throwing it to Echo Protocol.
GM, GM.
Thanks guys for having us on this space today.
So TLDR about Echo.
Echo is the first Bitcoin staking and liquidity layer
on MOVE itself.
We have two key products.
The first product is our Echo Vault,
whereby we allow users to actually stake
different forms of BTC assets,
be it native BTC, red BTCs, or even BTC LSTs.
And being able to use these assets as collateral
and create the first unified BTC asset on AppTorps
called ABTC, whereby users can maximize their BTC yield.
The second product that we have is actually our ECHO strategy.
It's more like a BTC5 product whereby users can do leverage lending, leverage liquid staking,
as well as leverage liquidity to just maximize the BTC asset they have on-chain itself.
I appreciate you, man.
I have to ask this question you know right now i think we're like
hovering between like 92 93 000 in your opinion bro in your opinion when when when bitcoin 100k
bro i think it's really not a question about whether it's gonna hit 100k but it's a matter
of whether it's gonna hit like two three hundred k before the Trump cycle ends, right? So I think probably in the previous conversations you guys had,
a lot of conversations was around whether we are in the bear or bull cycle.
I think this thing has, the whole Bitcoin narrative has kind of changed
in the sense whereby now that you have a lot of buying pressure
from institutions, public listed
companies, governments, I don't think so that you will see such huge drawdown on Bitcoin
asset itself. I think Bitcoin will come to stay dominant floating around these, even
in the worst case scenario, I think it would be floating between 70 to 80K.
It's just a matter of, you know,
on a year-to-year basis,
how much does it increase relative to gold
and other more resilient assets itself.
Done, done and done.
Actually, bro, that was the fake-out question, bro.
To me, more importantly,
when have those $500, bro?
I got my bags not financial advice
but I definitely
have my bags
just putting out there
yeah
FlipVault
welcome to the stage man
FlipVault
sorry about that
thanks so much
for having me
very excited to be here
I'm Mark co-founder of FlipFault. For anyone that doesn't know, what background on us, we have built a live barter trading platform on AppDos, primarily for NFTs, but also for crypto. Right now, we're just allowing you to trade APT.
grade apt um but yeah we just went live on testnet this past monday which is pretty exciting
um we're rewarding anyone that finds any bugs with our emoji coin that we've adopted and uh
also rewarding the top traders uh with our emoji coin as well so start testing it out if you
haven't already and uh we'll be on mainnet soon.
All right. Appreciate you, Mark. Karthik, how are you, man?
Yeah, I'm good. Nice to see the energy here, actually.
We have been doing a marathon session for the past four hours.
So nice to see the energy so far.
So I am Karthik. I am the co-founder of Kana Labs. So we have been here
since day one of Aftos and I believe this is one of the largest crowds that we have
had for spaces actually. So I love the fact that things are moving along, things are growing on Aptos.
So as far as Kana Labs is concerned,
we are the first order book-based perpetual futures exchange on Aptos.
We are in the last phase of testnet at this point of time. So apart from the perpetual futures exchange,
So apart from the perpetual futures exchange, we will also be, we also have a Spark Dex as well as an AMM creator as well actually.
So I'm excited to be here and also excited to be launching the Perks Dex within the next couple of weeks actually.
perhaps next next within the next couple of weeks actually
Karthik first off thank you for that you know I like flowers you know I was just
saying that like yeah you give me like the truckloads of flowers bro like just
show me all the flowers you can appreciate you on that I guess like being
in apples for quite some time right you know how you liking yourself today going through
this marathon did it it did rekindle the fire within you or that fire was already so big now
it became a bushfire bro no as i said uh it is very uh it fires you up basically it's right if
you see a crowd that believes uh in a specific uh principle as, it really fires you up to do well.
We have such a big crowd coming in for a marathon session on Aftos, sitting through it,
because I saw it at the beginning of the session, almost the same number of people are here for the last session as well actually so it inspires you to do
well when you are building on that specific principle which is apt as I said it inspires
you to do well not just for us but also for those who believe in those principles as well actually
so it really makes us want to do well. I'm sure others are also inspired by
such.
All right. Thank you, Dakar. I have a question for you, but I want to finish the
introductions. So you hang on tight real quick. Dak, welcome to the stage, man. How are
you?
GM, GM. Hope everyone's doing well. By the way, kudos to you, man. Four hours straight, not easy.
And like you said, to have this many people riding through, good on you, man.
It's a marathon.
You're going to sleep well tonight.
Quick introductions, though.
I'm part of the core team over at Shuriken.
Our primary focus is making multi-chain trading, bridging, and automation as easy and fast as possible.
And I guess in the form of a soft announcement almost, we'll be soon bringing on Aptos.
I think it's obvious if we're here, that's the case, but you guys are getting a little bit of
alpha. It's important to us that we add in the best chains and offer the best solutions for
trading on all the major chains on the market.
And Aptos deserves to be at the top.
So we're excited to bring Aptos in here soon.
Lute, we welcome you to the stage and also to Aptos, man.
I think, like, appreciate also, you know, the introduction to Felice said, you know, coming from providing your service to Ethereum and I think like
more recently Solana, or actually Solana was, yeah, more recently also Solana as well, you
know, like coming, incorporating a new language, right?
Obviously, Apples with Move, you know, how has that journey been?
You know, we'd love for you to share maybe like one of the highlights or like one of
the things that maybe you find has been, you know, either good or challenging, but kind of like surprise.
How has your experience been?
Yeah, I mean, we've been building in the space for about three years now.
The whole team, we actually originally started out as like ETH maxis, right?
When we went down the DeFi rabbit hole and started opening our horizons into the different chains
and the different attention on different chains, we kind of opened our mind quite a bit into, as you said, like Solana, but even some of
the other chains that we support, we support eight now in total, including like soon-to-be
Aptos, Avax, Sui, Tron even.
It's really important that you don't get closed off in these, what's the word I'm looking
for, almost like tribes within crypto.
It's not even just the language and the way you're interacting with like EVM versus like
sold directly or, you know, having some of these, these Frankenstein builds.
It's, it's more of understanding the traders and the culture of each of these chains and
how it's leading into a more multi-chain world where people are more open and finding
means to make it easy to combine these chains in one interface to make it a lot easier for people to not
only trade on multiple chains, but discover new chains and understand their potential.
I think we're leading to a future where people are more open to exploring and it's going
to become a lot less tribal.
And we're happy to be a big part in that making it that much more
easy to kind of jump around and explore.
Appreciate that man that first off like you, I think like
started off. Well, I mean, I don't know about your full
like history, but I definitely had a lot of bags at Eve and if
any of you right here like have heavy bags like myself, I sorry, I also have a big bag of apples right now.
But more importantly, right, I think like this space, you know, obviously you are here to I think one of the things I'm looking to say is like about I think latency is the word, right?
It's actually, you know, because you're talking about like trading and sniping and making it super efficient, you know, and incorporating move given like your background at all.
Has the team been very receptive?
You know, how has that been, you know, that process working with Paptos on that?
No, the team's been insanely receptive, super fast to respond.
And they've done a great job of laying out the potential.
I mean, a lot of people don't take the time to understand speed
and efficiency and what matters in terms of growth of Web3 and the general consumer. I mean,
you and myself are kind of prime examples. If we started out as ETH maxis, we're used to the
crazy days of paying $100 or more in gas on certain situations and being kind of okay with it, right?
and gas on certain situations and being kind of okay with it, right?
We're okay with waiting 12 seconds for a transaction to land.
We're OG crypto people, right?
But the fact of the matter is, is the general world for mass adoption,
we have to have not only cost-effective means,
but efficient means to move forward.
And Aptos delivers that in a way that,
especially in terms of block timing,
is just unparalleled, right?
I think like four times faster than,
well, like three times faster than Solana in general
and block times,
and then all the while still maintaining cheap gas.
It's one of the best layouts
in terms of an onboarding structure you can get
in terms of bringing in retail and new people in the Web3.
So the combination of having a solid team to provide information
needed to move forward as fast as possible
and then just making a chain that's easy to kind of onboard people
in the first place is a bit of a dream combo.
No, 100%, man.
I mean, like the days of minting or paying gas fees of like,
I would say hundreds of dollars,
but I remember the the worst I
had was like 169 or 173 dollars. It's a very odd number of other... Oh if we're talking about NFTs
I don't even want to talk about some of the bribes and gas on some of these mints. I mean they were
insane situations where people are throwing away like you know three thousand four thousand dollars
in a second just to get in first you know uh it's
absolutely crazy looking back and not how blind we were but uh how okay we were with some of these
uh insane inflated uh fees 100 thank goodness we are here with apples right now and i don't have
to deal with high gas fees anymore and we're fast we're so fast that
yeah we're just fast you know i'm just leaving it at all right uh karthik showing it back to you man you know test that is uh you mentioned i think a couple more weeks you're ready to go main net
uh dude uh what has been one of uh the highlights man you know tell me it could be team it could be
product it could be you know you being on this basis i don't mind you saying that again 100 this time i'm gonna clip it but yeah what's uh what is one of the highlights
okay the one of the highlights uh uh as uh okay that uh i wanted to talk about but that we have
been building this perv sticks for around one year now, actually. In fact, a little more than one year.
As far as highlights are concerned,
it is the technology, to be very honest.
I think everybody has mentioned it already, actually,
in this space and the previous spaces as well.
So the highlights has been the Actos technology asset.
So building a Perfstex is not easy. An order book building a Perfstex is not easy.
An order book based Perfstex is not easy.
And when you are building a Perfstex,
it is just no longer just enough
that you build something
wherein the free traders can come in and make a trade action.
I think that time is well passed actually.
There are so many perfsodexes out there and all that.
So there is simply no point in building another perfsodex
which does the same thing as the others do actually.
So there always has to be a progression and innovation
of technology actually.
So I think this Aptos technology provides that innovation that gets us as close to track
fight as possible.
I think Aptos has done the right thing in making their vision towards building a trading
engine because I believe it is very apt for that. So the biggest highlight for us has been how fast the chain has been and
how close we can get to TradFi using this technology. I think the biggest use case for
the Aptos technology at this point of time is on TradFi and secondly on payments as such.
time is on track site and secondly on payments and uh so uh being at the top end of track
fire at this point of time through a perpstex asset we are able to see how uh it is very
important on how aptos has been aiding anything that uh requires very high speed section so
for us the highlight has been the technology as such.
No, 100% on that man.
I think you touch on two things.
One is, you know, talking about the tech being great
and speed especially, right?
You know, for myself and also for the audience,
you know, by having more speed,
you know, what does that exactly mean?
Is it by, you know, like testing things faster, which makes developments a whole lot faster?
Is it basically on that? Or are there like other perspectives that you're able to share as well?
There are multiple things in that, right? You can always make trading faster by making a compromise
and choosing to do everything off-chain. That is what decentralized
exchanges do. So they make everything off-chain and so they are able to provide you with very,
very high speeds. The challenge here is not to make a compromise, execute everything on-chain,
but still have enough speed to challenge those of the off-chain components, the off-chain
exchanges.
So, so far what we have seen among all the Perks Dexas, I can even give it out as an
open challenge, is that most of the, 95% of the Perks Dexas built so far have either, number one, chosen to build a large part of their
platform of chain so that they can bring in a lot of speed in terms of trade execution,
in terms of order books, in terms of settlement and all that actually, or the other thing that
they have done like DYDX or like Hyperliquid for that matter, what they have done
is that they have chosen to build their own private chain. They may claim it to be a public
chain and all that but frankly they are a private chain at this point of time actually. So the
challenge here is to basically build a chain and build a Perp's Dex on a chain that is public.
build a chain and build a Perp's Dex on a chain that is published.
Wherein, apart from the Perp's Dex assets, there are also multiple other
dApps sitting on the chain and the chain is able to withstand the entire load
on it at any point of time. It is very easy to build a separate private
chain, have only the Perp's Dex on top of it. All transactions are from the Perp's Dex only.
So everything gets processed on private.
So that is not a big deal at all, to be honest.
But the challenge here is to do this on a private chain,
wherein not just the transactions from the Perp's Dex,
the transactions from multiple hundreds of other dApps
are also passing through the chain actually.
And everything needs a second also passing through the chain actually and everything needs sub
second settlement actually on the chain.
That is the biggest highlight of this whole thing actually.
So in terms of order matching, so most of the exchanges do the order matching of chain
actually.
So they have a database, the orders come and sit over there, they are matched over there
and they just basically write that transaction on to the blockchain asset
for the blockchain in those cases are just for record-keeping purposes like
that this order was matched this disorder that is what is written into
the blockchain so it is mainly for record keeping purposes but to bring the
entire thing on chain the entire entire order books, the entire order settlement
on chain and make it as transparent.
In other words, this is the height of transparency, where everything you can see it on chain.
There is no reason or no room for complaint on this.
So everything is transparent to everybody actually.
So that is the biggest highlight.
Thank you for that Karthik.
No, I think I fully agree with you and appreciate how you elegantly explain to myself and everybody in this spaces as well that's basically so to kind of summarize the way aptos is built it
basically becomes a i wouldn't call it like a perfect playground but definitely a suitable
environment for you to build kana and hence making everything on chain because i think for the most
part from my from my understanding at least you know uh having your whole i think we will call
it like tech stack or like your whole project built on chain definitely
is a challenging feat, right?
You know, like to have everything fully transparent
so certainly is a challenge from what I understand at least.
And you certainly shared great context on that.
I guess like because of how Applos is built
and also how you are building Kana Labs,
you also mentioned about how this would then lead into Trap 5.
I guess which verticals,
is there a specific vertical that you want to be focusing on
once you go mainnet,
or it's more so something that you are planning afterwards?
So we want to focus on the derivative space assets actually.
So futures, options, RWAs, the derivatives space assets actually so so futures options rwas is what we are focusing on
at this point of time so we are also in discussions with aptos labs themselves so that we can align
ourselves to their vision actually so the main idea going forward is to basically build out the entire derivatives stack assets on chain.
So that APTOS becomes a truly, because there's no point in just calling yourself the trading engine if you do not have all this on your chain basically and executing at high speed.
So we are planning to bring all this on chain uh depending on regulatory stuff also
we could probably think about bringing on commodities we could probably thinking about
bringing on indices on chain and all that but that is a progression actually that is going to take
probably a year or two but this is how we are aligning ourselves
all right thank you that kathik i appreciate you turning into the flip for mark
uh my my first question to start things off man when nft season
that is a great question um i have i I guess, a few different thoughts on this.
I'd say, I think to a certain degree, like NFTs are still alive.
Obviously, not as much on AppDos.
And I think that's just because the chain has now been around for a couple of years.
If you see like chains that initially launched, like Movement, for example, like they've had some decent NFT volume.
I think that as AppDos, which they are doing now,
really ramping up with other DeFi protocols and bridging a lot of liquidity to Aptos,
I think that naturally community will grow and therefore NFTs will naturally also ramp up.
On top of that, I do think that gaming still has just been one of those things that people say is
going to take off and it just never has yet i think we're still waiting for that catalyst
which i'm personally pretty bullish on i think hopefully within like the next year
to max i think that there will be one big game that really launches Web3 Gaming.
And hopefully that kind of reinvigorates some of that NFT spark and passion.
I feel, man.
I started from NFT, so it's a real soft spot for me.
I guess, in your opinion, I presume you definitely have a number of experiences with different NFT collections or ecosystems as well.
How do you foresee NFTs kind of evolved?
Obviously, gaming is definitely one of those verticals.
Do you see NFTs, I don't know, being more so like a community building kind of a thing?
Or more so like some will even arguably say that it's a fundraising instrument you know how are you viewing the future entities yeah so i honestly don't
think that'll ever be that same initial like pfp hype um it's possible i i still think that there
will be i still think there will be another cycle of that, maybe just not to the same extent. But I do think it'll be used as a means of just establishing
communities within different ecosystems. And to your point, I think that it's a great mechanism
for people buying into a project and then utilizing that as a a way to kind of track for like future airdrops as like a sign of like an
early support for a project. So I think that there'll always be an aspect of NFTs for the
community purposes, but I do think that they'll evolve in a slightly different direction as well,
probably more so. I think this is where like the true money and value will be, which is that
obviously NFTs, if
people hear it, they just think of a bored ape or a pudgy penguin, just your typical
PFP NFTs.
But really, it's much more than that.
It could represent ownership of a house.
And so obviously, as RWAs become bigger and bigger and Web3 becomes more of the norm,
I think that we'll kind of see NFTs in a whole different light.
It could represent like ownership of a house, like physical goods, and then obviously gaming assets.
And hopefully maybe all of gaming will kind of have some sort of like NFT functionality baked in
so that you can actually have
true ownership
of your gaming assets.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed.
I have two more questions for you.
I think
one,
we'll have to just understand
what was the inspiration
for you setting up Flipboard,
right?
You know,
Bada for NFTs
and also now crypto.
You know,
how did that kind of come about?
And, you know, as of come about and uh you know
as you talk about that you know emoji coin man i just know you brought this up 100 i need more
context yeah yeah um so the idea initially spawned just from playing a bunch of games
regular web 2 games back in the day like runescape um obviously there's this this
barter trading functionality baked into so many games of the past like even like pokemon like
you're trading like a pokemon for a pokemon like that's bartering um and i always found that so
neat and it made the game so interesting um so i definitely think there's like a psychological
component that makes the games more fun or exciting because of that.
And I could go down a rabbit hole regarding that.
But I'd say that Web3 has attempted to do something like that and just hasn't been successful.
And I think that's for a variety of reasons.
I think you need low fees, high throughput, which Apodos is perfect for.
low fees high throughput which apt us is perfect for i also think that it needs to be fully cross
chain so that you're not just confined to i guess one ecosystem um so you can kind of support
any any asset on any chain any game um just full flexibility um and regarding the emoji coin yeah
like i love emoji coins i think it's a great way to kind of establish community.
We have our own flipping emoji and then a bank emoji, so two different emojis.
So we bought in that.
We adopted it, essentially.
And yeah, we want to be giving it back to the community for anyone that just shows early support,
trades on our platform, and spots bugs, because we want this to be
as perfect as possible before mainnet.
All right, sir.
Appreciate you for that.
Turning it to Echo Protocol.
Ugh, bro.
How are you liking this segment so far, man?
You know, everybody gave great takes.
What's one highlight for you?
I think the highlight that
you know
really stands out
for us is
really about the
community right
like what we
have been saying
I think this
podcast has been
like ongoing
for the past
three and a
half hour
and we can see
like you know
the same viewers
same listeners
you know still
listening in
diligently
trying to
understand more and more about the
different DeFi protocols being built on the Aptos ecosystem.
I think that really showcased the seriousness and the dedication of the entire Aptos community,
as well as how you guys managed to bring almost, I think, like 10 to 15 over projects building on Aptos all in a
space in a single night. I think that shows how much collaborative efforts there are between
projects, between communities. And I think that is me as a builder on the Aptos ecosystem,
And I think that is me as a builder on the Aptos ecosystem,
it really pulls the point that we did make the right decision
of building on Aptos itself.
Oof!
Bro media train.
I love it, bro.
I love it.
Thank you for that.
Follow me with more of thousands.
I'll take off it.
I'll take off it.
All right.
All right.
But going back to Echo Protocol, right?
If I understand correctly, you are essentially bringing Bitcoin liquidity to Applos.
Is that right?
Yes, that's right.
So in terms of liquidity, what we mean by bringing liquidity is, as you know, there are
many, many different forms of BTC assets, right?
So we simplify everything, be it your holder of native BTC, REC BTC, or even BTC RSTs. You can simply just leverage your Echo protocol and bridge your BTC over
to Aptos and be able to do your DeFi farming and maximize your DeFi of your BTC assets itself.
Okay, okay. I guess like, you know, this question, right?
Why Aptos? You know, is it because of the speed? Is it because of the tech?
You know, why not build, why not continue building on, you know, I think like the
the ordinal space or like the room space itself? Why not build on Bitcoin itself?
Yeah, I think there were a couple of reasons, right?
I think since 2024,
we saw the rise of many BTC liquid-staking protocols
from Lombard, Palm BTC, Lorenzo.
I think everyone was focusing on EVM chain itself, right?
The whole narrative of you building on Bitcoin chain itself, I don't mean so is very feasible right now. Firstly, it's because
there's just not enough activities or even projects out there for users to
utilize their VTC asset. Second is it just doesn't make sense from a DeFi
perspective, whereby the fees are high, there's low latency.
It's just poor adoption, poor user experience.
I think back to the question,
when we were selecting which
blockchain we should be building on,
unlike our other competitors that
all chose the EVM side of things,
we do understand why they build on EVM because
eventually, you know, it's the highest level of liquidity, the highest variety of assets that
users can potentially use their Bitcoin connector to get other assets from. But I think what really
stands out for us and why we build on Aptos is a couple of reasons.
I'll summarize it in two very straightforward points.
The first point is, of course, security.
And security stems from the capability of the Aptos Labs, Aptos Foundation team. I think as a Bitcoin project itself, getting our users to deploy their Bitcoin on-chain,
security is always the number one priority for them.
And being able to build on Aptos,
and why we want to build on Aptos is because we know
that the Aptos Labs team,
they do have a high emphasis and priority on security itself.
So we will see less exploit, less vulnerability
across the entire DeFi protocol,
which is ideal for a project like us
in the Bitcoin space itself.
The second is, of course,
in terms of a fresh injection of new asset.
I think a lot of people,
the way they perceive Bitcoin is Bitcoin on EVM, Bitcoin on
Solana, but I think nobody has kind of, it doesn't really go hand in hand when you think
about Bitcoin and Aptos. As much as right now, the amount of DeFi activities users can leverage
on their IPTC on Aptos is maybe lacking compared to the bigger chains.
But I think with what I have heard so far
throughout this three and a half hours,
with all the new creative DeFi products coming up,
I'm sure Aptos will continue to grow its DeFi ecosystem.
And with it, I hope that the users of Echo Protocol will be able to grow along with it as well.
Thank you for that, man. That was beautiful to say.
You know, even I understood it, which is great, man. I learned a lot.
You know, I think one of the classic examples is if you use like pricing strategies,
obviously like percentage benefits to ask somebody
to switch their credit card provider you know someone as big as like i don't like amex right
the example like someone that's newer that's like really really difficult because like everything
everything is kind of set up there and so like you touch on you know like security especially
security like if it's not secure like we wouldn't even give up, let's just say, 3% to 5%
just because of 3% to 5%,
we'll give up security.
And I'm fully behind you on that.
My follow-up question to that is,
did you have to build this
from the ground up?
And how vital was Atos Labs
and also Atos Team
help with your development?
Yeah, I think for us,
the reliance on Aptos Labs was quite minimal
because essentially for us,
being a BTC project,
I think our main focus was still dealing
with a lot of BTC users, BTC holders,
as well as ensuring the security
through our bridging solution itself.
Of course, a big shout out to the Eptos team
for helping us to look through our potential risks
and vulnerabilities within our platform itself,
as well as always constantly helping us
to take a look at maybe things like within our platform itself, as well as always constantly helping us to,
take a look at maybe things like,
what are the certain assets we could potentially integrate in,
which are the potential DeFi protocols we could integrate with
and create more leverage strategies for users itself.
I think those have been super helpful
and we really appreciate the support
we've gotten from all our DeFi partners
as well as the Aptos team
for helping us in this build itself.
I think last thing is also, of course,
in terms of adoption.
I think it also shows that, you know,
as much as the narrative for Aptos has been
dying down over the couple of months,
I think based on
the amount of BTC
that was bridged over and deployed
on-chain on Aptos itself,
it shows
that Aptos still has that level
of credibility within
the crypto space itself.
I think till date we have bridged in about 2,500 BTC.
And if I'm not wrong, this is considered one of the largest amount of BTC
breached into a singular ecosystem itself.
So I think that really showcased that our BTC users itself have that level of faith and trust
in the Aptos team as well as the blockchain itself.
Let the team cook.
Let Aptos cook.
I'm going to just leave it at that.
Thank you for that, man.
Throwing it to Dak.
Dak, so far, I've only heard great things about Aptos,
great support and everything. You know, I want to talk about, you know, what, how are you
approaching your growth, man? You know, like, is there, you know, is there something that you can
share? You know, are you having more partnerships or collaborations with the multiple communities
at Aptos? Let's start with that, man. Sure. uh if you don't mind i'd like to also
kind of maybe build off of some of the concepts we just heard from some of the other speakers here
uh maybe even even echo a little bit a little dad joke there sorry about that i had to take it
um go ahead we've talked a lot about the security and tech side. So it would almost be a waste to kind of echo the same points,
as I agree with everything said on the panel today.
But one thing I do want to kind of, I guess, draw attention to is
over the years of building in the space, I've noticed in some ways patterns
and way partnerships develop with change directly in our tools.
And they kind of fall into, we'll say like three general categories, right? We if we look at Bitcoin as its own
category, it's almost a form of of storage and long term wealth in a lot of senses, you know,
not even just from the NFT side, like BTC as a whole as an asset. That's how a lot of people
look at it. And when I talk to people in BTC, they they kind of say the NFT side, like BTC as a whole, as an asset, that's how a lot of people look at it.
And when I talk to people in BTC, they kind of say the same thing on like the NFT side.
They're storing, they're holding value and they're kind of building a collection per
It doesn't really facilitate the means of high frequency trading, which a lot of the
market is interested in.
So I think, you know, Echo, you guys are doing a great job and pointed in the right direction
to kind of make things easier for users.
And I commend you for that. But that leaves us with two more categories.
And that's teams that are caring, that care more about value extraction and TVL and teams that care about building.
One thing I think is important to say is someone kind of coming new to Aptos and meeting with the team and talking with them and kind of putting together plans for development. And that is, we were greeted with not,
are you VC funded and how much volume are you going to bring to the chain day one?
We were greeted with, what are you building and how does it provide value? Right? And
although it's important in crypto as everything is in some ways driven by greed and volume,
it doesn't move forward towards a future of longevity.
The chains, and out of respect, I will not name any names.
The chains that I've spoke with and worked with in the past that focused more about VC funding and TVL and the numbers on day one didn't last
very long. They had maybe a crazy two, three day period, maybe even a week or two, depending on
the market. But things inevitably died out because everything was built from a base of value
extraction. One thing I found really refreshing in the conversations with Aptos is that it was
purely driven by what is being built
and how does it bring value to the platform and users, right? Why is this a thing? What are you
doing? Not how much. And I think there's value in that. And I think it's worth highlighting.
I think these are steps that are necessary to grow a chain, bring in tools that will actually bring in users rather than
flashing giant numbers, hoping to bring a bunch of DGENs over to throw money around in circles and
hopefully catch some fees along the way. I think it provides an environment that encourages building
and true growth, which is where we'll see Web3 grow in the long term.
Very quick TED talk by Dak, but I'm happy to move over into our growth strategy and kind of what we're leaning into in this next wave.
Unless you have any questions on that or comments.
Oh, actually, I know when the whole monologue.
No, no, that was great.
I guess like real quick, right?
You know, Apple Steam basically from what I've gathered, you know, they were more focused on like you being a builder, right?
Like what are you building?
What do you plan on doing in the future?
And then how does that contribute to the ecosystem as a whole in terms of value?
And like, you know, fees and all are great or like numbers are great.
But like if it doesn't align with the vision, you know, they rather not.
Is that kind of like what I'm understanding?
Yeah.
And this is the same for everything, right?
If we go to FlipBault's example with NFTs, right?
We're having issues with NFT gaming consistently.
Why?
Because everything is very much based on value extraction and how much money can this game
make me?
Not is this game fun, right?
We see true innovation and things moving forward when NFT gaming makes a move, we need to have a game that's
fun where you don't even think about the NFTs. And then the NFTs are incorporated in a way that
provide value to people and they want to kind of grow within the ecosystem. Maybe there's value
into them. People can make money off of them. CSGO is a prime example where people play the game
because it's fun, but there's a
whole side market where people spend thousands and thousands of dollars on a skin on a gun.
Why? Because it's rare. You can't find it unless you grind and grind and work for it and get lucky
one day and then actually pull a rare. But then there's a crazy secondary market where maybe one
kid got lucky on his first drop and he can make some money on it.
Well, great.
That's going to bring more attention, more people who want to play, more people who want it to gather these assets and grow from it.
But the core of this is there has to be value and excitement around what the product actually
is, not excitement around the value extraction and the greed that it provides or offers.
That whole CSGO, what's it called?
Secondary trading, the daggers, man.
The first time I found out that daggers were worth so much,
it flipped my word a little bit.
Just that little bit.
I was like, Mark from Flipfall.
We'll definitely go into that in the next video as well.
But yeah, on towards the second part, right?
You know, how has the partnerships been?
You know, is it like a specific strategy?
You know, is it like, I guess, like market focus or regional focus
or, you know, partnership based?
You know, yeah, we look for you to share more of that.
So one of the main things we're focused on building,
especially in this next wave with some big stuff we're coming out
with in the next few months.
I got to be very careful not to spill too many beans, but kind of give you a general
idea in terms of the direction.
We're predominantly focused on making multi-chain trading, bridging and automation as easy as
as possible as i kind of said at the very beginning of the talk in doing so there's a lot of
possible, as I kind of said at the very beginning of the talk.
separation in the current environment um where you know as i kind of alluded to before a lot of
chains still have these tribal elements to them people are kind of locked down to one chain but
i don't think that's necessarily as leaning as much towards the community aspect where people
just get stuck in their own little communities i I'm sure that's part of it.
But a lot of it is that a lot of the tooling, a lot of the means of connecting to the blockchain
that are available today are very much segmented and broken apart.
Not a lot of teams or people are focusing a lot on finding intelligent ways to aggregate
all of these chains and create an interactive experience
that you can look at crypto as a whole without having to compartmentalize everything and have
50 tools on your screen at one time if you want to have true insight. One of the big things we're
focusing on is what's the trader journey from discovery to execution to management? And how can we blend not only a flow in this cycle to make it where you can just be in one place and go through these motions that you want to do every day anyway without having to have 50 tools open and spend five hours of your day analyzing multiple little things.
But find ways to, in a way, kind of spoon feed the users and kind of aggregate this information
in a way that is easily digestible
and easy to understand at a glance.
And then to help guide people
through those lines of execution
and management along the way
to take away some of this segmentation
we've seen in the market.
And hopefully in turn,
give a lot of chains that deserve
to build momentum and grow faster than they are a bit more of visibility at a macro level.
There's not a lot of easy ways to look at the greater Web3 market, understand what chain might be moving, what kind of meta there might be, and to be able to instantly jump into that chain, whether you've traded on it before or not, and start going.
to instantly jump into that chain,
whether you've traded on it before or not, and start going.
There's a lot of friction involved,
and you have to really make a commitment as a trader to,
okay, let me download this wallet.
Let me bridge.
Let me learn this chain and understand how to interact with it.
There's no true aggregated means to provide a holistic view
of the greater crypto market
and where you might want to poke around that I've seen.
Nothing that really tackles it in the way that it should.
So that's kind of the future we're leaning towards and the future we're working towards
quietly now behind the scenes.
And that involves partnerships with everybody on multiple chains, not only dealing with
the partnerships of the chains themselves, but tools on all of these chains that,
sure, we could take a ton of time
building on custom versions of ourselves,
but in a lot of cases,
we can provide excellent means of discovery, execution,
and position management while also integrating
a lot of partnerships and tooling
that a lot of people use today,
again, on multiple monitors, multiple screens,
multiple tabs, what have you,
and then find ways to intelligently integrate it so we can provide almost a home
for an aggregation of these tools working alongside in parallel with our custom set
to almost create like a hub of crypto, if that makes sense.
That totally makes sense, man.
I remember at one point, especially during my NFT days
at least, I felt like there were a number of builders
that were hyper-focused on one specific thing,
and then they will create a product for that.
And everybody will do the same.
And then it was like, OK, I've got five different things
that I can experiment and play around.
And it was quite overwhelming. Do I want to use use all five or do i need to use all five
right you know like i i guess like uh i'm a bit older so for me you know i was like you know what
i'm just i'm just gonna not not follow the hype train i'm just gonna stick to the one that i'm
most comfortable with but i think for the most part you know like you said right it may be very
confusing especially for newer incumbents and uh dude i
i love what you're doing looking forward to that future as well uh kathik how are you man
kathik yes i'm good yeah yes very good So, a very simple question for you.
You know, obviously you're gearing up for Mainnet very soon.
What are some of the measures that you are incorporating to ensure liquidity?
I didn't catch the last part of the question.
To measure what actually?
To ensure liquidity okay yeah so what we have done okay liquidity
is always a challenge especially for perps nexus uh because uh it it uh first of all it is very
costly actually uh number one and number uh number two if the liquidity is not very strong, if it is not very dense, then the traders will just come in, have a look at it, make a trade or two and then walk away if it is not very good.
So if they get a lot of slippage or if the prices and the sizes are not what they wish for or what they expect, they basically walk away actually.
So it is a very crucial part of
the purpose so what we have done at this point of time uh we have engaged with uh three market
makers at this point of time actually uh so initially we had planned to start with just one
but because the feedback that we got from the community and some of the trader groups that we are in touch with, they wanted much more dense liquidity as such.
Spread is to be much more smaller and all that.
So what we have done at this time is that we have engaged with three market makers.
Going forward, we also plan to add multiple market makers and we are also hoping that there
would be other market makers who after looking at the activity within the platform and the volumes
within the platform they will also get interested to participate on their own so and we are also
expecting a lot of retail and institutional participation as well.
So, we expect that they will bring along their own bots and all that, which will also add to the liquidity and such.
So, at this point of time, what we are seeing on the testnet is what will be seen on the mainnet as well and we are seeing sufficient dense liquidity
and very strong and very tight spreads as well actually and the sweepages that we have been
seeing on the testnet are very minimal so we come from a track by stratified background most of the
core team is from the stratified background there we understand how very important it is to maintain liquidity and also to maintain
very tight spreads as well actually so we are continuously on the lookout to see how we can
add to the liquidity we also want to work with other dApps in the ecosystem,
actually, bringing their liquidity as well. So we are looking at different yield protocols
or different pool based protocols. And we are looking to see how we can tap on to their
liquidity. So we strongly believe that the liquidity needs to circulate
through the ecosystem there is no point in just us or anybody any specific depth to just hold on
to the liquidity the liquidity has to circulate through the entire ecosystem for the ecosystem
to grow actions so that is what we are working with actually. So we are working with multiple
market makers, multiple apps to get these things to happen.
Thank you for that, man. To follow up as well, I guess like to my question, right, you know,
when you look for different, you know, projects or protocols to work together with,
is there like a specific, what was the word format or like
or like an angle you know do you target like specific uh demographics first or it's very much
so just based on that particular vertical yes it is more based on their particular vertical assets
the so as i said liquidity lies idle in specific protocols.
So, if it begins to circulate to the ecosystem, it adds to the benefits given to the users
as well actually.
So, we are looking at those protocols that have pools, those DAOs that aggregate liquidity
in some form or the other actually
so these are the kinds of we are also looking at lending and borrowing dApps we are also looking
at those that give leveraged yield and leveraged pools as well so for example there is a DApp called more markets actually, more AR markets.
So they are leveraged liquidity actually.
So we are looking at such DApps as such.
Those that have ideal liquidity, that have leveraged liquidity and such things.
We are also working with lending markets as well.
So anything that adds to the
liquidity anything that can generate deals anything that can generate leverage these are the kinds of
gaps that we are looking to work with actually all right thank you for that karthik appreciate you
throwing it to mark at flipboard dude uh i know we're nearing the last couple of minutes,
right? So first off, what you know, like we'll be doing the
Asia tour, man, you know, I think like in a couple of days,
you know, it's going to be token to buy. Why be seeing you
there? And what's, what's what's your growth strategy moving
forward, man, to move yourself into the next phase?
Yeah, unfortunately, we will not be there.
One of our advisors actually will.
And he'll be kind of representing us, like I said, Hedera.
But he'll be getting word out there and he'll be helping us try and fundraise.
And that kind of leads into the second part of the question where that's kind of our next goal.
Like we will hit main net in like two weeks, max three.
We have pretty much everything built out.
Like obviously we're on test net.
There's like several functionalities, like several additional features just to create like a more seamless and like all encompassing experience that we don't have built out.
But does require a little bit of funding.
And like one thing I didn't touch on,
which is kind of like a key piece of our business.
And I think what can really make this take off
is we want to build out like a widget essentially
that will allow games to implement
like this protocol directly within their own platforms.
So we won't just be this P2P platform.
Obviously that also requires some time own platforms. So we won't just be this P2P platform.
Obviously that also requires some time and money.
So yeah, so right now really just focused on fundraising.
So hopefully you can just get a little bit of money
and build all that out over the next several months.
All right, Mark, thank you for that.
What is one thing you want everybody to take away
about FlipFault and Aptos?
Yeah, so first, I guess with FlipFault,
just, yeah, get on the testnet and start testing everything out.
Like, let us know if something doesn't make sense,
if something just can be done better or something that simply doesn't work
because, again, we want this to be perfect.
And we've got to catch this all right now before mainnet
and yeah you'll get rewarded with emoji coins and just for trading too just like getting those stats
up we track all that so you'll also be rewarded for that um and then about aptos in general i just
i highly recommend that anyone who's not already using the chain get over bridge bridge some
liquidity um it's fast a lot of interesting applications being built.
And buy some NFTs.
So you have something to trade on football.
It's a win-win for,
for all of us.
NFTs.
NFTs.
All right.
Thank you,
Mark.
Echo Protocol.
How about yourself,
man?
growth strategies moving forward.
And we'll be doing the Asia tour and even Dubai as well.
Yeah, we'll definitely be there in Dubai.
So stay tuned to our co-event with Actos.
So as part of being an LFM project, we'll be co-hosting one of the LFM events over during Dubai Token 2049.
So if any of you guys are there, feel free to hit up the team to just connect in person
as well.
In terms of our growth strategy going forward, it comes down to two different points, right? First is to continue to integrate more and more BTC ecosystem players,
be it Rack BTC or even other BTC L2s as well.
So we'll also be launching something very, very exciting with OKEx sometime around next month.
So that's a huge hint for everyone as well.
The second point is
we'll continue to grow our
BTC5 product offering.
So if you guys
are interested in finding out more,
send to our Twitter
and get ready to
find out more about the
exciting products that we'll be launching
on the AppTorSQL system launching on the Aptos ecosystem.
Thank you for that, man.
What is one thing you want everybody to take away about Aptos?
Yeah, I think the point is very clear, right?
For us, Bitcoin is here to stay.
And it will be the, we hope to grow into the fastest, Aptos will be the blockchain with the fastest
and quickest adoption of
Bitcoin users and
products as well
Back, go, your turn
Thank you
So I guess
one thing I think it's important
to take away before we
talk about.
Yeah, buy more Aptos.
Step one.
Two, kind of like I echo before,
make sure you guys are taking time to pay attention to the chains
that are focused on building an ecosystem
and inviting developers to help grow that ecosystem.
Take a hard look at the way Web3 is evolving
and make sure you're placing your chips
in places that make sense for the long haul.
Not to bullpost too hard,
but I think we're in very soon
for a new leg of the bull market
that maybe a lot of us aren't really expecting or are ready for.
So be on the lookout. Make sure you're paying attention to what matters and play your chips
accordingly. And you guys have already heard Autofield by Aptos on that. I did a nice little
monologue for you guys earlier. I won't go too deep down that rabbit hole. But the way we're
kind of looking at growth is during these periods of consolidation and people figuring things out in the market, getting its stuff together, we're heads down building.
We're putting a lot of time into having conversations with people who live on chain and trade daily, understanding where some of the pitfalls are in the flow of trading and understanding of multi-chain analytics and what's actually going on in the world of crypto.
And we're taking all of these pieces to
the puzzle and putting things together
in a very
new way that I think a lot of people
are really going to like. So keep a lookout for
Shuriken Trade. We have some
spicy goods coming around the corner.
For now, we
are quietly building, putting it together, and having
a blast while doing it.
Thank you for that man.
Karthik, shoot away man.
Yep.
So, just one thing actually, I believe Aptos ecosystem and Aptos token is highly undervalued at this point of time.
Things are coming together for the entire ecosystem.
So considering that, I strongly believe that both are highly undervalued.
So I believe that some kind of an alpha for the people over here, actually,
who are listening into these spaces.
And please visit Kana Labs, our PURfs platform. We are launching our last testnet
contest tomorrow where you can get free mainnet, loaded mainnet accounts. 500 of you guys can
get free loaded accounts. So do try it out and be a part of this growth over the next one year actually.
All right, thank you for that Karatek. That is a wrap everyone. Four hours at those con. I need to throw it to my main man, Piu, because you know he did most of the heavy lifting. I just
came in like that side piece that was meant to be there yet not meant to be there. So yeah, before I try to puke,
yo, everyone,
throw emojis,
drop comments,
show some love,
follow everybody on Space.
All of you are incredible.
Just purely amazing, right?
I will now shower flowers to everybody.
You know, I have got like truckloads right now,
but you know,
I'm going to share with everyone.
But yeah, puke.
Yeah, mate, mate. First off, dudeilt. Yeah, Maeve, first off,
dude,
are you a sexy side piece
or are you a cute side piece?
Hey,
hey,
man,
you know,
I'm happy just being your side piece,
man.
You know,
like cute or what?
I'm going to let you say.
All right,
guys,
shout out to Maeve.
Excellent hosting as always.
But guys,
we came to the end of the Spaces.
If you tune in, you know, from the second segment,
third segment or fourth segment, no worries.
Because Spaces is recorded.
And, you know, after we end the Spaces,
you can always come back, listen to all of this alpha.
Every segment is totally different from one to the other.
So if you're bullish on Aptos, go listen it
again. If you miss out anything, no
worries, we got you covered. And to the
folks who are going over to Dubai,
let's take, you know, let's
build up this hype and bring your
energy to Dubai because next week, together
with the Aptos team, we're gonna get
lit. Alright guys, first
off, gonna shout out to all of
the listeners. You guys are AG off, gonna shout out to all of the listeners,
you guys are AG,
being here for the last four hours,
like,
retweet the space,
and to the speakers,
thank you for spending
your one hour
with us.
Guys,
take care,
bye-bye,
see you next week.
Bye everyone,
take care.
Thanks,
bye-bye.
Bye guys. Thanks, thanks. Thanks. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. so Thank you.
Host
Speaker
Aptos Labs
from
Aptos Bridge
Echo Protocol
from
Echo Bridge
