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Arbitrum x Injective
Recorded: May 14, 2024 Duration: 0:34:27Space Recording
Full Transcription
GM, GM.
Oh, looks like Justin got kicked off.
Oh, looks like disconnected.
Let me bring you guys back up.
GM, GM, Justin.
GM, Justin.
Oh, looks like...
Oh, you're here now.
There you go.
How's it going, everybody?
Justin, if you're trying to speak, we can't hear you.
You're muted.
You're muted.
Can you guys hear me?
Can you guys hear me?
You guys can hear me.
Can you react with emoji?
Okay.
So, injective account can hear me.
Yeah, Justin, if you want, you can rejoin.
Yeah, just rejoin us.
GM, Justin, can you hear us?
Yeah, yeah.
Apologies for the technical difficulties.
No, no, all good.
It happens to everybody.
I don't know.
It's just like Elon Musk.
The Elon Musk effect.
Yeah.
Good to be here.
Thanks for having us today.
Yeah, no, anytime.
Yeah, it's our pleasure.
Yeah, really excited to have you guys here with us.
Tons of exciting announcements that, you know, we need to break down.
So, yeah, I just wanted to welcome everybody to the space.
Thank you for the community for joining us today.
We have Injective.
We have Justin with us today.
Justin, GM, how are we doing?
And, yeah, we'd love to start off with some short intros from you.
Yeah, no, doing amazing today.
We actually just got back from our off-site, so rejuvenated.
A lot of energy now.
Lots of exciting things happening in the background as well.
But, yeah, happy to dive into who I am first and what I do for Injective.
Justin, obviously, I'm on the business team with, let me see, a couple people who's listening in today from the Injective Lab side.
Specifically, I see and run all ecosystem growth for Injective.
So, things like an EVM that, you know, we obviously just announced with Arbitrum very recently are things that fall into my responsibility zone.
Yeah, no, that's super awesome.
And, yeah, are you guys, like, fully remote?
We are across the world.
We have a good bunch of people in New York where we are headquartered.
We have a good core of developers in Europe.
But, really, I'm in APAC, so we're all across the world.
I mean, crypto doesn't stop, right?
So, only right.
Facts, facts.
Yeah, no, that's awesome.
Love to hear that.
But, yeah, no, for those listening in in the audience, right, there may be some people that don't know what Injective is.
So, Justin, do you want to give us a high overview of what is Injective?
As well as, like, cover the technology stack, the NVM.
I feel like that would be a great start to the spaces, just, like, giving the whole overview.
100%, 100%.
I'll start off with Injective on a high level, then I'll slowly, you know, make it down to an EVM.
Sorry, short, Injective is a layer one blockchain sitting in the Cosmos ecosystem.
We started out this journey really trying to think of a way that we're specific.
So, if you're familiar with how app chains have really become a thing in the last year or two, we were very early on in this party.
Like, I'm talking 2020, because our main chain right now is so, in our space, we just call it DeFi, right?
Like, how can we get people who want to build DeFi projects injective?
How can we make this environment as efficient as possible?
How can we be EVM compatible?
How can we get there?
How can we get users and liquidity from Ethereum?
And really, we tried a couple of ways, and our methods have been successful, you know, to say the least.
Like, Injective specifically on our native chain, and also by any EVM by extension, you actually get liquidity from our on-chain order book.
What that specifically means is, in most environments, you probably operate in a vanilla AMM or AMM in your own system.
Where we want it to be very sector-specific with financials, like, we want it to emulate.
How can we make trading, either that spot, perp-dexes, whatever it might be, as, you know, MEV-resistant as possible?
So, day one of our journey, we decided we want to create an on-chain order book.
What that means is, for developers and users right now, when you go on to an on-chain order book, you actually get to interact with the on-chain order book that taps into liquidity that's sourced by over 30 market makers.
These market makers are supporting multiple, multiple blue-chip and long-tail assets.
Ones that you can probably name off, you know, Solana, Bitcoin, Ethereum, Injective, obviously, Celestia, so on and so forth.
We also port them on our order book, and by extension, you can, for example, launch a lending and borrowing on Injective, like Neptune, for example, who's tapping into our on-chain order book and really get, let's say, the liquidation part being done so on the order book without having to query from an AMM solution.
So, that really helps with price slippages and whatnot.
But other than that, you know, we're going to talk a little bit more about Injective, and then right away, I'm going to talk about NUDM.
We also have our plug-and-play modules.
What that means is you have the exchange module, which allows you to use the on-chain order book.
You have a binary options module, which, hint, you know, a little alpha here, a lot of projects that's going to launch in the next two or three months or so have built using binary options.
What that means is, let's say, you have, you want to create one-tap trading.
You can just run with the binary options and essentially long in asset or short in asset and make your whole trading experience as, you know, smooth and flexible as possible.
But, you know, to slowly bring my way down to an EVM, as I said, like, for, since the inception of our project, many people have said, how can we become as, you know, Ethereum compatible as possible?
We've tried to, we've tried interoperability is at the core of Injective, which is why we've done an EVM, which is why in the past we've also announced not just an EVM, but an SVM, which was formerly named as Cascade.
And, but before we even got to that step, really, we wanted to also bridge in users from Ethereum to make that whole process as smoothless as possible.
And what's the most popular wallet that people use in, on Ethereum or on Arbitrum, for example, it's probably MetaMask, right?
On Kepler, on Cosmos, you would have Kepler as the alternative.
But instead of just tapping users onto Kepler, we wanted to tap into Ethereum users.
But it's very difficult, if not impossible, for people to use MetaMask on Cosmos.
So we created a, you know, signature scheme that's unique to Injective that would essentially allow you to use Injective without having to switch to any other Cosmos wallet.
Right now, if you just toggle to Ethereum mainnet as the network on MetaMask, you can actually go onto any Injective dApps, let's say Hydro, DojoSwap, Neptune, whichever, you know, name it.
You can use MetaMask to process any signatures, any transactions.
And really, that was the launching pad for in EVM.
We started thinking now,
Wormhole, who's a partner on, and Hyperlink, who's a partner from, right?
And obviously, Injective being Cosmos, we are Cosmos WebAssembly-based language.
It's a Rust-based language, not Solidity.
So technically, there's a lot of difficulties.
There's no real way for us to work with Ethereum builders to begin with.
So the solution was quite simple.
You launched, essentially, now to a roll-up chain that allows these developers to be able to launch their own dApps without having to change anything.
And I mean anything like, for example, Timeswap, who launched on an EVM, they didn't alter a thing on their code base.
All they had to do was fork it and deploy onto Injective EVM, you know, obviously through the organization.
It's a little stack, and things were ready to go.
And part of this process was with how James and Matt from the Caldera team, they've been amazing to work with to really launch.
Yeah, that's super awesome to hear.
And yeah, no, talking about the integration, right?
So the NVM integrated Arbitrum Orbit tech stack, right?
And overall, right, it brings fully customized interoperability across Cosmos and Ethereum, as well as Injective and Arbitrum, right?
So I wanted to ask as well, like, what does that mean for users, as well as for developers now?
Yeah.
So using, you know, Arbitrum's Orbit stack, you get, you know, quite a customizable experience, to say the least.
You get to build out a chain like you want it to be built out.
So, for example, we, from a user's perspective, going back to that question, a lot, the user journey resembles very much like how you will be interacting with, let's say, a GMX on Arbitrum.
You'll essentially be going onto any dApp that has been deployed onto an EVM.
Using any preferred wallet, let's say any wallet on Wallet Connect, pretty much you'll be able to interact with any of the dApps on an EVM.
Nothing really changes except for one thing, which is you have to use INJ as the underlying gas fees.
And you actually also benefit from the faster transaction speed that Injective is able to offer, right?
So, you know, I'm not really going to get into the transaction speed because, in my opinion, sometimes it's so minute that people can't really tell.
But the biggest difference from a user's perspective is you would need to hold a little bit of INJ to make the transaction, right?
That would, you know, if anyone wants to start, you can actually just go onto any INJ faucet, preferably through our docs, you know,
and then bridge it over through Hyperlane at nevmbridge.com, and you'll be pretty much ready to go in order to facilitate any, you know, trading or whatnot on an EVM.
From a developer perspective, things are also just as easy.
Like I said, with the TimeSwap team, for example, nothing really, like, was needed to do.
Like, they really didn't need to do much.
Like, even the fact that we're using INJ as the gas fees and not any other gas token, they didn't have to alter their code base at all.
You know, and the fact that we have Heart Hat and Foundry on EVM as well means, let's say they do want to run their Solidity smart contracts through a testing environment again.
Thanks to Arbitrum's Arbitrum's Orbit, Heart Hat and Foundry comes with it, right?
So, I can then run through my testing for these smart contracts to see if there are any errors that pertains to this environment in EVM specifically.
If there isn't, pretty much you're good to fork your code and deploy onto an EVM.
So, user perspective and developer perspective, it's all really easy to use, and that's sort of the angle that we have over here, right?
It's to make interoperability at the core DNA of Injective.
That was the whole argument of IBC, right?
So, right now, the whole user flow could really be bidirectional.
It could be from Cosmos to an EVM to Ethereum, then to Arbitrum, or the reverse route, or any other order that you really want it to be.
Yeah, no, that's, like, super awesome, because I think that just, like, takes interoperability to the next level, right?
So, I think this integration, it's, like, really huge and a big win for Ethereum and Arbitrum, because now, like you said, like, users and builders can, you know, jump between ecosystems seamlessly, right?
So, I think that's, like, the big picture here, which is really awesome to see.
Yeah, 100%.
We're all, I think, the way that we should think about it is we're all just pushing for, you know, adoption for change in general.
Like, there really isn't any, this is all for a greater good, in my opinion.
And, you know, without Arbitrum, without Caldera, without Hyperlane, without PITS, without any of the partners that I can go into really later, like, this wouldn't be possible.
So, it's a special shout out to anyone who's listening who contributed in any form, way, shape, or form.
It's been incredible.
And just for you guys to know, Injective is the first, to my knowledge, and Injective is the first ever chain to connect IBC EVM through an EVM and Solana through an SVM in this space.
So, what that means is the broader thesis that we have as a chain is to one day be able to connect all these different environments into one, and ideally, also get them to use the fundamental modules and infrastructure that we've built on Injective.
Like I said, the order book, the plug-and-play modules, all the SDKs that's available for developers and users to play with, that's the angle that we have.
And Arbitrum was fortunately one of the many players that was along the process.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, that's really cool to see.
Especially, like, you know, looking back over the years, right, especially, like, in 2017 or even before that, right, you had different chains, right, that were pretty siloed, right?
You had Ethereum, Injective, and a few other chains as well.
And now, like, we're seeing a lot of collaboration, a lot of integrations where, you know, we're building together, we're connecting, you know, bringing communities and ecosystems together, making things, like, simple and seamless for users and developers.
And I think that's, like, really cool to see, right?
I think that's, like, the best thing to see, just, like, the interoperability aspect of it.
Because looking back, right, and thinking about it, I'm like, wow, I can't believe we're at this moment of, like, interoperability.
And there's more to come, too, right?
100% there's way more to come.
I mean, just the amount of players that's in this space right now, it's, in my opinion, at an all-time high.
You still see a lot of developers, a lot of builders who's interested in taking a lot of this space to the next level.
I mean, with Celestia, for example, just half a year ago, they came out with a modular DA layer.
I don't think anyone really thought about that, you know, 12 months ago.
And now this is all a reality.
And, you know, fun fact, Celestia is the modular DA data availability layer in EVM, which is why I also want to give them a special shout-out.
This all wouldn't be possible if people weren't trying to figure a better way for things to grow on the blockchain.
Yeah, 100%.
And I think the community have, like, a question in mind that would be really interesting to ask is,
like, why Arbitrum Orbit?
What stood out to you with Arbitrum Orbit compared to others?
So I think that would be cool for you to, like, cover.
I think people would be interested to, like, learn about your thoughts behind it.
Yeah, 100%.
Like I said, I think the main reason for us to work with Arbitrum is for two reasons.
And we can go deeper into the second reason later.
But the first reason really was how customizable the solution was.
Like, we work with Caldera, obviously.
Please search them up.
They're an amazing team as well.
So they decided to use Arbitrum Orbit, to my knowledge, mainly because it's highly customizable.
Like, for example, it comes with Heart Hat and Foundry, like I talked about there, just now,
which is essentially just a solidity testing environment that came with Arbitrum Orbit.
I think that was amazing to begin with.
But at the same time, it allowed you to add on to a lot of the layers that would make it resemble
very much like your native chain.
Let's say, for example, I talked about INJ as the underlying gas token that was made possible
because of Arbitrum's Orbit stack.
At the same time, we're able to add a lot of different players, such as Altlayer, right,
who, again, is acting as our watchtower for an EVM.
What that essentially means is they're watching every single transaction, every single block
for an EVM, tapping into the security of the vast Ethereum environment.
And every time that Altlayer's watchtower finds out that there's a transaction in this
specific block that's not valid, that's malicious, they're going to take it on.
They're going to instantiate a process to invalidate this transaction and really bring
chain security to the highest level possible.
These are all things that were only made possible because of Arbitrum's Orbit stack.
The second reason, in my opinion, is going back to the small community, as well as how
tight-knit and well-connected this community is.
Like Arbitrum is obviously is close partners with Hyperlane, for example, and we have a
dedicated NEVM bridge built because of Hyperlane.
We work with Hyperlane because not just Arbitrum already has a ton of projects, you know, that's
sitting in their environment and it's a huge kudos to the team of the off-chain labs, to
the Arbitrum Foundation team, and even to DAO's that's behind Arbitrum.
These are all made possible because of Arbitrum.
And the community, I think, was a huge factor as well.
Like being able to work with Hyperlane, a team that's well-connected with the Arbitrum team,
is something that's amazing.
And I'll give you an example to how the Arbitrum and Hyperlane comes into later on's plans
for us.
If you go onto NEVM bridge right now, you can see you can bridge from Ethereum to Injective
and vice versa.
But with the Hyperlane team, they allow us to deploy something called the warp routes,
W-A-R-P.
Essentially, these warp routes allows you to tap into bridging to and from different chains
that already work with Hyperlane.
Arbitrum just happens to be one of them, right?
So we can essentially have developers just to say, hey, instead of just bridging to
and from Ethereum and Injective, I want to add Arbitrum as a destination or source chain.
That can be made possible because Arbitrum is close partners with Hyperlane.
So hopefully that answers your question.
Yeah, no, that's awesome.
And also, I know you guys have one of the best DeFi ecosystems in Cosmos, right?
So, you know, and Arbitrum being like also the home of DeFi on Ethereum, I think that's
also a perfect fit.
100%.
I mean, the amount of projects that's out building on Arbitrum and Injective at the same
time, it's quite astonishing.
I do think that on the line, there'll be a lot more compatibility, you know, fingers
crossed within EVM continuing to be a success.
Like this means that we'll hopefully continue to be able to hop onto more spaces like this.
But yeah, no, definitely.
I think Arbitrum has done a really good job in the past 24, 36 months in terms of building
their own ecosystem as well.
A lot of the teams that you're working with are top notch, the best of the best.
And, you know, Injective too, I think we're just in very much different environments.
We don't really have a lot of, in terms of a Venn diagram, there's very little overlap
between Injective and Arbitrum developers.
But hopefully one day with more interoperability tools, like that will hopefully change and we'll
be able to tap into each other's ecosystem and help foster more growth.
Yeah, yeah, this is only the beginning.
And I also wanted to ask as well, like, what are you most excited for with Arbitrum going
forward now that you guys are integrated with Arbitrum Orbit?
I know you mentioned community.
We talked about the technology as well.
But like, what are you looking forward to with now being integrated on Arbitrum?
What's something that you're looking forward to?
A couple of things that we're definitely interested in is to get more projects exposure both from
Arbitrum to Injective and to Injective from Arbitrum.
I think only then, you know, being chain agnostic should be at the core of every single that's
looking to launch, already has launched.
We've seen over the years, like many projects essentially deploy on Arbitrum, deploy on other
chains on Ethereum.
Not going to give them a shout out.
This is Arbitrum's time.
But yeah, things like that, I think will definitely make a lot of sense for projects to be chain
agnostic inside Cosmos and inside of Ethereum.
I think that's the best way for it moving, really.
But outside of that, I'm still going to go back to the, you know, trusted answer, which
is community.
I really do think that Arbitrum has done a great job in terms of launching community-driven
initiatives such as short-term incentive program, long-term incentive program.
I think these were amazing, amazing, you know, strategies to keep and not just keep projects
on Arbitrum, but to really grow them to a level that's, you know, unprecedented.
I mean, with GMX, what they've been able to do with a short-term incentive program, with
Pandil, for example, who's been amazing in the last eight, nine months, even 12 months.
Like, these are all things that's made possible because of Arbitrum's community.
I think the way that you guys work with DAOs are also particularly exciting.
DAOs being able to give off grants and, you know, decide where do these, you know, token
incentives go to.
I think these are all good ways that other chains can take into consideration as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I love that you said that because, yeah, the Arbitrum DAO has definitely been cooking
over the past few months.
And also, like, they're not only focused on the DeFi side, but they've also been focused
on the gaming side with their, I think they have a gaming proposal right now in the Arbitrum
forum that's being worked on.
So that's something that's coming up for the Arbitrum DAO to vote on.
So that's going to be really exciting to see.
And yeah, yeah.
I really love, like, how, you know, decentralized Arbitrum DAO is only because, right, they have
the ability to make any changes to the Arbitrum public chains like One and Nova.
So yeah, no, Arbitrum has full control of the chains, full control of the treasury.
And yeah, it's just exciting to see people just, like, working together across the world,
just, like, coming out with cool ideas on how to help innovate and grow the Arbitrum ecosystem.
So yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Big shout out to the Arbitrum DAO.
Those guys have been cooking.
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, I talked to, I had talked to Matt from Stable Labs before I talked to a couple
of different people.
If I recall correctly, you guys have three DAOs who's behind, I think, Arbitrum DAO or
Arbitrum DAO is one of the DAOs that's part of the three.
But that cohort is amazing.
Like, the initiatives that's coming out of that.
Yeah, that gaming news came out not too long ago.
And it's definitely interesting.
Love to see that, how that goes.
I'm going to shamelessly plug Injective GameFi here as well.
Like, shout out to SA World, who recently, you know, decided to move over to Injective
as their home chain.
They've got interesting stuff coming up as well.
So look forward to how Arbitrum continues to bolster GameFi.
And also feel free to check out Injective yourself.
Yeah.
No, I think it's also been crazy to see how not only, like, DeFi protocols have been
involved in the governance within the Arbitrum DAO, but you also have, like, institutions,
like, stratified institutions like BlackRock getting involved within the Arbitrum DAO.
I'm not sure if you peeped that, but that was really cool to see.
Yeah, no, I definitely peeped that.
That made a lot of splash on the news.
100% behind you as well.
Like, I think these are what we both, both our chains have been doing is just stepping
stones and really a small piece of what we can expect in this industry.
We're still very much early on.
I know we've said this tons of times, but we're still so early on that we can't see how
endless the future really might be.
So my advice is just to sit tight, hold on tight, and see where this goes.
But definitely think that you guys are doing amazing work with Arbitrum.
The DAO, especially how decentralized it is, when you touched on to that, like, it's amazing.
Like, I remember when I spoke to a couple members from the OffChain Labs team, and I said,
hey, like, love to learn more about, you know, short-term incentive program, how you guys
decided to design it.
And they were like, you know what, actually, we can design it.
And I was like, wow, that's amazing.
Like, they said, our DAOs designed it, which is why they decided to speak to the people from
the DAOs that you guys have.
So just a kudos to how decentralized Arbitrum is.
It's amazing to see, really.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, yeah, yeah, no, it's pretty crazy to see, like, like, Option Labs, they have nothing
to do with the Arbitrum DAO.
So it's just, like, the community actually, like, you know, pushing Arbitrum forward with,
like, all of these incentives.
And, yeah, it's really cool to see that.
But, yeah, I'm extremely bullish on the Arbitrum DAO.
Although it can be, like, really chaotic at times, the DAO slowly gets work done, which is
good to see, right?
Progress is good.
So I'm definitely excited for what's coming up with the Arbitrum DAO.
But, yeah, I think we're close to the AMA being over.
But, yeah, Justin, I'm not sure if you have anything else you want to mention to the community.
Any final thoughts?
Yeah, 100%.
We definitely have a ton more to come for Injective.
I mean, like, I started off this AMA with, we just all came together just last week to
talk about, you know, what strategy, what plans that we want to take as well.
So I would say follow Injective on Twitter.
Again, a shameless plug.
I see a couple of members from our team.
I see Larissa and I see Oz, who's from our team as well.
Like, please follow anyone on this team.
Like, we have tons of updates coming.
I think in EVM was just a stepping stone along the process.
Over time, we're definitely going to fire off more developments.
More DABs will be joining us.
I mean, just on the inaugural date itself, we had 10, 12 DABs joined.
Shout out to Theta Nuts, TimeSwap, PoolShark, 8Bond.
These are all DABs that's sitting live, you know, on an EVM already.
Definitely a lot more to come.
But, you know, just stay close and follow Injective on Twitter.
We have a blog that we frequently update.
Those definitely will be useful in terms of high-level context,
in terms of what's building and what's brewing in Injective's ecosystem as well.
Awesome.
Yeah, I'm, like, super excited for both ecosystem, you know,
Arbitrum and Injective, to work together to help push interoperability forward
to the masses.
So I'm extremely bullish on that front.
But, yeah, thank you, Justin, the whole Injective team,
as well as the Injective community and Arbitrum community for joining us today.
Thanks for sharing all the thoughts and all the stuff that you guys are working on.
And so, yeah, thank you guys for joining us,
and hope everybody here has an awesome Tuesday.
Thank you for having us.
If you have any questions, you know, DM's always open.
So thanks again.
Thank you for having us.
