Hello GMGM and welcome back to a new AMA with Arbitrum.
We are super excited to host this AMA with Plume Network, which is an orbit chain that
is a modular layer 2 for a real world asset and this is a hot topic because everyone is
talking about real world assets.
So yeah, super excited to have you today.
So yeah, maybe we can start with some introductions.
I know that Chris is behind the Plume Network account.
So yeah, how are you Chris?
Good, thanks so much for having us here.
I have to talk to you guys about it all today.
Yeah, maybe you can share more about yourself Chris, like what is your role at Plume Network
and yeah, a little bit about your background or anything you'd like to share about you.
No, great to meet everybody here and thanks for having us.
Long story short, I'm the CEO of Plume and one of the co-founders and we've been around
My background very quickly, I was an entrepreneur, mostly doing different types of startups and
then got sucked into crypto a few years ago and mostly was in between trading shitters
and helping projects get started and also doing a lot of angel investing and doing venture
investing into crypto projects and so I've been in and around for a while and the time
came together between a few of my co-founders and us a few months ago, we were looking at
this whole market and talked to a bunch of projects and what we could do here and everything
came together and we felt a real pull from the market and so decided to build the product
and build this chain and here we are today.
Exciting, super cool to get to know more about you, it's always very cool to know more about
the builders that are at the end building the arbitrary system, the web tree ecosystem
Yeah, very exciting to see you here and yeah, maybe I'd like to ask you more about the product
and the team for those who doesn't know much about Plume and yeah, also I see here's Chase
with us, so hi Chase, thank you for joining us today.
Hey Ana, great to be on the panel, I'm really excited to learn more about Plume.
For background, I'm on the partnerships team at Offchain Labs and I work a lot with infra
teams, orbit chains and sort of have a passion for like RWAs, so excited to learn more about
Love it, perfect, let's get into it.
Maybe just start like I can give you guys a quick background and overview on Plume and
what we're doing and all of that.
Long story short, we're building a modular L2 designed specifically for RWAs and we found
that an RWA's are, I think there's a lot of interest and hype around it but the truth
is it's still very hard to do and very hard to do, right?
Most asset issuers, most crypto-native assets, you don't have to think about a lot of the
stuff that RWAs act, right?
An RWA is we are taking the components of the real world and mirroring them on chain.
This way when you buy an item, you sell an item or you're trading something, you ultimately
own that individual asset, right?
It's not some fake representation of the item and so there's a lot of things behind the
scenes whether it's technology, it's regulation, it's compliance, it's infrastructure, it's
identity, it's all these things that you have to consider when you take a real asset to
Now, when you put it on chain, you get all the benefits of it being on chain, meaning
you have composability and operability, you've increased liquidity, all the benefits that
are exciting and you take a lot of the sort of crypto superpowers and apply them to real
It's an exciting thing, but it's still very hard to do and so we see a lot of demand for
these assets and a lot of demand for these types of things, but the infrastructure to
do this is still very hard and so most projects still get hung up on that.
So we thought if we could standardize the infrastructure and make these components first
class objects in an ecosystem, we can really usher in a lot more activity around RWAs and
not only for issuing assets, but then also building an ecosystem around them where again,
it's about taking the sort of magic of defying crypto and interacting with RWAs in the same
way, meaning taking an asset and not just buying it in a marketplace, but also then
putting into a vault and earning some passive yield or maybe taking that alone against it
or speculating on these items.
And so, you know, our whole angle is that most RWAs today, most people have no idea
what they really are and the truth is like everyone talks about RWAs today, but the truth
is like at the end of the day, I would say very few people actually buy RWAs, very people
buy RWAs, very people use RWAs, very people actually know what it is, there's this broad
notion that if we have institutions come in, which RWAs are associated with, that'll pump
But the truth is that that's just not what it really is yet today.
I think at some point it will be, but it will take time.
And so our angle is that instead of talking about RWAs as some abstract thing and some
like financial instruments that nobody cares about with like a 2% yield or a 3% yield,
the point is, let's build RWAs for crypto people and build this in a way that allows
people to actually have products that they'll use today, right?
So instead of some esoteric instrument where you have to KYC up to even touch this asset
and you're going to get 2%, 3% yield over a couple of years, let's do things that actually
matter for people today, which is buying and trading, which is speculating, which
is earning yield on items.
And that's when we talk about anything, it can be anything from collectibles like sneakers
or Pokemon cards, wine or those types of things, or sometimes as financial instruments that
really spit off yields or things like commodities or private credit stocks, those types of things.
But taking those assets, bringing them on chain, mixing them in with the rest of the
crypto ecosystem and then applying sort of DeFi magic on top, I think that will create
a real ecosystem that really brings in a lot of net new people in the crypto, but also
allow actual crypto people to use these things and we could really grow the whole ecosystem.
So that's the intention and kind of point of plume.
And we're really focused on being an infrastructure provider that helps RWA projects come out.
We think RWA spaces is great, but it's still early.
And so we're really trying to build a community around it and help everybody grow here.
Because we think of RWAs in general grows and everybody wins.
So that's kind of like the short story on plume and what we're doing here and excited
to work with Arbitrum on this because we looked at a bunch of different things and Arbitrum
was a great partner on this so far.
So we've been really happy with this.
Hey Chris, thank you for sharing the story.
It really makes sense and it's very inspirational.
And yeah, to be honest, this narrative of the real world assets, I think it's been here
since a long time ago and I feel that this year or since last year, it's been happening.
This narrative started a long time ago, but right now I feel it's stronger than ever.
So yeah, very excited to have you here now, building your orbit chain for PlumNet Network.
So yeah, I would like to ask you, what made you decide to deploy on Arbitrum over all
their ecosystem and what were the benefits that you found?
And yeah, for the people who doesn't know what is an Arbitrum, it basically lets you
to build a customized chain using the Arbitrum nature stack.
Yeah, you can build your own layer two chain that sells directly to Ethereum or a layer
three chain that sells to Arbitrum One or Arbitrum Nova.
But yeah, Chris, let us know why did you deploy on Arbitrum?
I mean, maybe to start with the purpose of our view on technology in general and what
I think a lot of people in crypto get very caught up in technology maxism and just getting
overly focused on one or the other.
But our perspective has always been very simple, which is like, one, we have a great
So our co-founder Eugene's also here.
He was one of the first people at RobinNet Crypto and then also at DYDX.
And so we have a very strong tech team that's very crypto native as well.
So I think for us, the purpose has always been very simple.
What are the best tools available in order to serve and create the best user experience
And that's always the purpose and the intention.
And so for us, we're agnostic to the technology.
And at the end of the day, we're fine to either find the best tools out there or build our
And so we look at everything.
We're sort of thinking about what to do with Plume and where to build, how to do it.
We looked at doing our own L1, looking at doing an L2, obviously, across different ways
of doing different providers.
And ultimately, you know, really came to for a number of reasons, settle on Arbitrum.
And really, you know, at the end of the day, you know, there's really sort of two dimensions
to think about it, which is, in my opinion, first, you go to EVM or not EVM, right?
And there are many reasons for that.
And so I think there's multiple places to do it.
But you can really think about Cosmos as one ecosystem where a lot of people can build their
But our team, you know, again, is very fixated on, you know, at the end of the day, we think
about the end user experience and what that is really like.
How can you find an environment that can scale properly, that has improvement scaling, that
has liquidity, that has end users, right?
And also, ultimately, like for the developer, right, where there's multiple constituents,
when it comes to building a chain, you both have the actual end user themselves interacting
with the chain, using stuff, and playing with the chain itself.
And then the other side, you have developers, and developers are a big part of this.
And so if you're thinking about building an ecosystem, for us, we want to find the easiest
way to make sure that existing projects and folks building an ecosystem can move and interact
and experiment with plume.
And so you have to be EVM for that, at least the initial piece, right?
And so EVM compatibility was a thing, I think scaling solution, right, especially being
able to have cheap, fast transactions, we all have used Arbitrum, I think it's a great
And I think, you know, doing things on mainnet is great, like as a settlement layer makes
But interacting with that on mainnet, kind of as a first class, as like the initial interaction
point, I think is too slow, too complex, too hard, especially for our goal as onboarding
a lot of new people into crypto and bringing a lot of new people in the experience has
to be done in a certain way, right, it has to be right to actually usher in these folks.
And so to me, it's about scalability, its speed, its cost, its ease of use, and also
the ability to customize and change and change things around, right.
And so for us, you know, we do modifications to the chain itself to fit this towards the
to our use case, right, we want to make sure that our chain has certain operations and
certain things that related to RWA that we can take care of and modify to make it both
like really allowed us to do that and helped us with it.
And the team has also been really good, just helping us both with the technology side,
but also go to market and really helping us both get the message out there.
And that's that's ultimately why but really, it comes down to how do we craft the best
end user experience, right?
And what tools do we have?
And if we can't find the right tools, we'll build on our own, you know, we build a lot
of our own things in house.
But for, you know, for some things, if the tools out there, it fits everything we need
and more, there's a dedicated team board, of course, we'll use that because go to market
and user experience is the key here.
So that's why I think Arbitrum ended up being a great choice for us.
And again, we tried a bunch of things and not to knock them, I think there's many great
But you know, for our use case today, what we're thinking about, and what we want to
do, Arbitrum has both been a great partner for us technology wise, go to market wise,
but also ultimately, like, just great people to work with.
And we've enjoyed we've enjoyed like working with the team.
So it's been great so far.
One of the things that we love to tell about orbit is the customizations that that you
And I know you sort of touched on this a little bit.
But can you talk about some of the things that you're able to do with orbit and having
your own chain from a customization standpoint?
Yeah, cuz look, I think a lot of chains a day are just chains for chains sake, you know,
and like at the end of the day, that's fine.
There's no there's no bad reason to have there's many good reasons.
But for us in particular, I think the customization element is a big part of it.
Because again, what you're talking about with us, in our abuse in particular, is you're
taking a real asset and putting it on chain, right?
Which means you need to mirror those conditions again, from the real world on chain.
So when you buy own and sell this thing, it's actually yours, I can redeem it anytime and
That's the point of it to make a real asset a crypto native asset, right similar function.
And so for us to do those things, there's a lot of these things to do.
And so they're really two elements of customizing a chain that we think about.
The first one is, is RWA operations and interactions, meaning, there are many specific things when
it comes to RWA is that you have to do to make sure that you can actually do those things,
So for example, a very simple thing, if in sort of unregulated environment, right, so
we're thinking about like collectibles, right, again, when we talk about assets, we talk
RWA is very much focused on Treasuries or T-bills or whatever, those types of things,
things that none of us care about or buy.
We talk about everything when we're talking about sneakers, we're talking about Pokemon
cards, we're talking about wine, but also we have financial instruments.
And so there's really two sides of it.
If you look at things that are on the unregulated side, so sneakers, Pokemon cards, whatever,
there are many things you have to do to constantly sample data from the real world to make sure
that the item is still there, to make sure that the item is okay, make sure nothing is
changed, make sure that, you know, and also, in some cases, if you're buying into some
asset maybe that is, you know, generating some, you know, whether it's a solar farm
or electricity or whatever, there's a lot of data that you're pulling in from this.
And so all those operations can, you know, need to be done in some seamless way.
And so making things like that cheaper costless, right, transaction wise is a big part of it.
So customizing operations, so those types of things are specific to RWAs, don't tax
the network, don't tax developers, and don't tax the end user, right?
For example, this would be like on the sort of like identity side of things.
For some certain assets, a very small set of assets, you need to be a certain person,
You need to not be on a blacklist or you need to have, you know, some KYC or whatever in
order to buy those assets as a security token, right?
So in those cases, a simple example, you have to make sure that this particular wallet is
And you have to check these things on a somewhat regular basis, right?
And to do those things, you also need to make sure that those, again, you like constantly
pulling stuff off chain to make sure this stuff is real.
And so that sampling of data, again, it shouldn't tax the protocol that actually is developing
and it shouldn't tax the end user for this.
And so those types of things, we can make modifications to make them both very fast,
high throughput, but also very cheap and gas efficient.
So in this way, it's not a overall tax on the ecosystem or just like for the chain
itself, if you're doing a lot of sampling, and also it doesn't cost financially for the
users or for the protocols.
So that's like a sem, a semblance of it.
So really, the overall principle is a lot of our database involves fetching data from
And interacting with, with the off chain world and bringing stuff in on a very frequent basis.
And so those types of things you want to make very efficient, cheap, and, and easy
So that's like where the customization is.
And the second thing is also, you know, we've like done a bunch of things around integrations
to make sure that the entire process of tokenizing an asset is integrated well into the chain.
And so when you think about bringing an asset in, tokenizing this thing, putting it on chain
and then being able to track its usage, being able to route the money back and forth within
that item, take things on an off chain or redeem it, all that, all of those pieces,
one big integration framework, they've also integrated into the chain as well.
So those kind of like the two components of it, both the actual operations and executing
transactions, but also the environments surrounding it actually bringing stuff on chain.
So those are kind of the things we've done.
And like, that's why I think it's been a great choice for us to, to actually be able to make
these changes to allow the protocols building on us to, to access these features natively
without having to build it on their own or have to, you know, cobble it together in some
This is, this is great like to hear how, how you are using the, the orbit tech tech for,
To be honest, yeah, it's very customized and, and yeah, as well, like, as you mentioned,
you can customize the gas token, the privacy, the governance.
And you also mentioned that something that was very important to you, it was the developers.
So yeah, something very cool that orbit chains are, are able to, to, to, to join, for example,
the stylus, which is allowing more developers to, to build in the web tree ecosystem as
is allowing a roast developers, see and see plus plus developers to build using this languages
to build smart contracts.
So so yeah, orbit chains are, are already allowed to, to be part of it.
And then the arbitrary Nova and arbitrary one will, and of chain labs, the first builders
of arbitrary will have to create a proposal to that now to, to, to start using it.
But but yeah, like for their machines are already allowed to do so as, as the governance
So yeah, I want to know more about the projects that are already on plume network, like what
types of assets are you working with?
I mean, we've got a bunch of really exciting ones.
I mean, you know, like you said, we cater to both types of users, both developers today,
but also for actual end users and, and, and people using the chain.
And so, you know, we've been really excited to have a bunch of great projects work with
You know, when people say RWA is maybe zooming off for a second, people tend to think financial
instruments and an institutional stuff, right?
And our view is very much the other side of it, right?
Which is at the end of the day, it's not like I want, I want something people actually use.
And so if you look at the spread of things that we have, I really put them into sort
of like two or three buckets.
One is the collectible side of things.
So for example, you know, we work with protocols like Minuswap that does sneakers that allow
you to buy and trade sneakers, you know, on chain this way, you know, 80% of sneakers
are about to be resold, right?
And so the ability to buy something and sell something on chain without having to bring
them on to bring it home and like wait for it to go up.
And then the speculation is that the sort of infrastructure around is very, very painful
One that we work with a lot is a protocol called 4K that we just started working with,
So they also do, you know, watches and tokenizing those types of things and making it very easy
for you to own a fraction of the perspective on the side or own a piece of it.
So that's another example.
So on the collectible side of things, there's a lot of stuff there that you can do.
The second sort of broad area is, you know, what we consider sort of like flavors of RWA,
Like hotels and book different rooms and stuff like that through their platform and
receive the sort of receive them as NFTs, right?
So if you book a hotel room for a couple nights, you can get these NFTs and having an NFT of
a room like, you know, that's cool.
But like, what's actually interesting about that is then, you know, let's say you book
a trip out months in advance for this particular location, instead of parking a bunch of money
Now take on that, you can take that out and either hedge your exposure to it on a different
protocol called Silver Colloid, or what you can also do then is put that into a vault
and take a loan against it, right?
And then this way that money is not just parked there and sitting there doing nothing, right?
And so that's an example of a more kind of end user consumer facing use case that we
RWAX today is a, you know, it's a classic perp stacks that allows you to take real
assets and speculate on these things with leverage, right?
So if you want to bet on the price of onions or beef or whatever it might be, or you can
do that with 50x 100x leverage.
And so that's the purpose of this where like we take a lot of crypto native use cases and
work with these protocols to build this out in our chain.
Another area is really looking at actual assets that get tokenized, right?
And so, you know, we're working with a project called Econergy today that allows us to bring
And these solar farms are currently sitting around, they're already built, living all
around, they're all around America today.
And what they do is they're taking electricity and converting it into, excuse me, they're
taking solar and converting electricity for a local school or a hospital.
And the way it's built is these things generate between 10 to 15% APYs paid out monthly in
And what they do is for our users and for the protocols out there, we can offer this
as a partnership and use it where you can come here and do the stuff that you want to
do on chain and then fall back to this type of yield, right?
So by bringing in these assets, we can bring in real yields that are stable, right?
That live on top and really allow you to kind of get the best of both worlds.
So that was another example of things we do.
But also, for example, on the more institutional side of things, we work with a protocol called
We just did a sort of case study on them yesterday.
They allow you to buy and trade tokenized versions of stocks, right?
So the stock market is great, but access is limited.
So we can bring the entire world to participate in this.
And it allows us to really open up the markets there and really have access for a lot of
people to buy stocks all over the place and equities.
This private credit meeting, the ability for a small business to access credit to grow
their business or run their business is very tough today.
And it ends up being very prohibitive for entrepreneurs trying to build companies.
And so this allows crypto to finance and begin to help those businesses grow.
And of course, on the other side, you make the yield from it.
So you're taking things that are happening in the real world, earn a yield on it and
bring it back into crypto.
And then you can also do whatever you want with it, whether it's buying and trading stuff
with sneakers or cards or maybe taking out leverage and speculating on different items.
And so that's just a simple example of the kinds of things we have.
Of course, we have all the classic stuff around single family homes and real estate and residential
We have more institutional focused products like definitive that are focused on like DeFi
trading strategies and yield for institutions.
And of course, like a slew of stablecoins as well.
And so we have a mix of different things.
And that's the idea is between things like FarmSense to do agriculture, things like, you
know, silver coin to do perps on real world assets or let RWX leverage, you know, that's
the idea to have a bunch of these things together, create a real ecosystem of things that people
Amazing. You have a lot of projects that can be helped by Plume Network, to be honest.
And yes, as you mentioned, you are you are supporting this institutional, financial real
estate and collectible projects and more.
But what do you think about what are those major pain points that Plume is helping other
these projects or other projects to solve?
Totally. Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of things.
But it goes back to this earlier point that like tokenizing an asset today is a fucking pain
gas. You know, like at the end of the day, you have a lot of things you have to do in
order to get this item on chain.
And so what we do is we act as an infrastructure provider today.
One of our one of the protocols that builds on RealTX, when we first talked to them, they
made a comment saying, you know, we've been in business for two, three years and we spent
the first couple of months, years just figuring out the workflows and the infrastructure and
the service providers in order to get this done.
The process of tokenizing is 10, 15, 20 steps long.
And every single step of the process is a different partner you need to work with, whether
it's tokenizing, then custody and then transferring and having a transfer agent escrow, you know,
sending money around on up like all these things are a big process that you have to do one by
one. And it turns out it's actually fairly similar across all these different asset providers.
And so if we can put all this together in one place, wrap it up and make it very easy.
So a developer doesn't have to think about any of this stuff at all, or a net new asset
issuer who has assets, but doesn't even know what to do with the technology can come here
and very easily click a few buttons, deploy on chain, right, and then either put their
asset on our protocols on a partner's protocols or their build their own protocol, then we can
really increase the amount of people coming in.
Most these people again, if you think about tokenizing an asset, if it's going to take you
two years to figure out the infrastructure to get going, that's a massive barrier to things
actually coming on chain, right. And without stuff on chain, and without diversity of things
on chain, right, you have a massive dearth of developers, you can build stuff with it and use
those as collateral users assets, right. And so similar to how AWS made it very easy to instead
of having to rack your own servers, and build this whole thing, right, like the it allowed people
to one click with a credit card, get online, deploy your web app and build stuff on top and
created a tremendous amount of innovation right on the web after the ideas for us to make it very
easy to just come on chain, click a couple buttons, get your asset on there, right. And begin to
build a market around this stuff. That's kind of the first piece. The second part is all many of
these protocols interact with each other, right? We've already seen this happen today, where the
RWA world, while it's a bunch of hype and noise today, which is great, it's still early. And so
putting a lot of these products together and collaborating on things, again, the idea is to
build great products for end users to use. And combining a lot of these things has been and we've
seen a ton of a ton of really interesting products come out of that. And so to me, it's the
combination of those two things. And ultimately, it's about consolidating liquidity. So if we have
great projects, and great protocols and great assets that a lot of users and liquidity will come
through, and we can all participate in sharing that as well. So those are like that those things
that we think about it from a tooling perspective as the first layer, second is kind of a go to
market perspective, and third, ultimately, is liquidity.
That's, that's, that's awesome. Thanks for that. I wanted to ask you guys have a really, really
strong team, especially for how early you are, just for people that don't know, plume has former
team members of, you know, like, web two and trad find institutions like Robin Hood, and JP
Morgan. They also have some really stellar web three alumni from layer zero dy dx, coinbase,
Binance, to name a few. Can you tell us a little bit about how, you know, you went about finding
finding some of the members of your team and how you how you attracted them to join? What is a very,
very new startup and like a, you know, a nascent field? It's definitely a big risk.
Yeah, totally. No, look, joining any any company at this stage is always a shit show. It's always
scary, you know, so I'd say a bunch of our team is actually here as well. So, you know, I think
what we've done, we've done a good job of it. And like, I'm like very, I think we think we have the
best team in RWA today. And like, the story is very simple, you know, like, they came from
friendlies, you know, our we have, you know, three co founders, myself, Eugene, and Teddy,
and we spend, you know, a good a good mix between web two and web three. You know, Teddy comes from
from B&B chain, as well as coinbase ventures and swim. So it's done a lot there, both on the kind
of protocol side and the and the ecosystem side, Eugene comes in Robert Cripplin, the RTX. And so
a lot of that was just kind of, you know, leveraging the networks and people that work
within the past. And there are, you know, every company has those things where there's like great
people around that, you know, just don't need more from from their work environment or trying
to do different things. And you always know that and a lot of people just want to work together
and stuff. And so we just got lucky with the timing, we're able to bring, you know, great
folks like Tiffany, and great folks like Alex and as well, right. There's also Jason and Ivy,
and Victor and Andre. So like, we were able to just get a bunch of great people in very,
very quickly. And, you know, it's one of those things where, you know, I think the types of
people that that seek this thing out also know what they're getting into and have the right,
like dynamic India neighbors, right, doing a startup is scary. But at the end of the day,
it's like a ton of fun and rewarding when you do it right. And, you know, it's like a lot of late
night, a lot of work. But, you know, it is fun to see something go from from nothing to something.
And so, you know, being able to attract these people together, I think has been a sort of huge
boon for us. And I think one of the things I'm most proud of a plume is we built this great team
has really created a bunch of great stuff today. So we hope to continue building on that. And of
course, if anyone is, you know, we're still hiring. So folks are interested in plume and what we're
doing, you know, both if you want to build on top as a protocol, if you are a new developer,
or you want to join a team on the BD side or marketing side tech community, you know,
we're definitely looking and talking to people all the time. So more than happy to talk to them
and ping me anytime and always happy to chat. But I think, you know, building a great team
as a foundation or everything ideas change, markets change, conditions change. At the end
of the day, the only thing that doesn't change is the humans. And so it comes with great people,
like usually good things will happen. And so that's like a big focus of us. And I think,
you know, again, shout out to our team for, for, for doing all the hard work and doing great work
over the last few months. Yeah, that's awesome. I really want to say congratulations guys,
guys for building this. And yeah, very looking forward to see what you're going to be doing for
this year in the real world assets ecosystem. I think it's growing a lot. So so yeah, super
exciting for that. And yeah, thank you for sharing the opportunities. So, so are we not here
as you heard, they are, they are hiding. So so yeah, you can check it out. But yeah, Chris,
I'd like to know more about what are your plans for this year. And, and yeah, if you can share a
little bit about your roadmap or yeah, anything so you would like to share more about. Yeah,
totally, totally. What's coming. Yeah, I mean, big picture for, for the community, you know,
what we're doing right now is we're in the middle of building, kind of we're, we're doing
our private devnet right now, we're building and deploying a bunch of projects and working with,
you know, over over two dozen projects right now on just ironing out all the pieces technology wise
and getting things ready, we're going to do an open incentivized testnet very soon. And so stay
tuned, and we will definitely be announcing more there in the upcoming weeks. And the idea there
is to really bring a lot of our users in that we have in the community and people have been, you
know, scrambling and trying to get in. So we want to begin to get people in to both test things,
but also begin to work out the workflows and just build a community around. So the open
incentivized test that we'll be doing very soon, stay tuned for that. And the idea very quickly
after is to, to do mainnet and, and our token and RTG as well. And so that's the idea to kind of
really put these things together. And really, like you get into the, I think it's both in the
community, both in developer side and also for, for the user side of things. And so that's kind
of like the short term plan and big picture, you know, again, it's two things, it's about sucking
in assets quickly, right, which also then leads to capital. And then ultimately, then having
developers come in and build interesting experiences and products on top. And so it's the
combination of those three things that really that is our priority and focus for now. And
it's a bit of a flywheel on both the asset and capital side. So we continue to work on that.
And then of course, the developer side is always something that we're catering to as well. So
those are kind of like the big things we're going from, you know, initial projects where we have a
bunch of great use cases to really seeing the fly will pick up and expand. And so, you know,
then how allowing us to scale our programs across those things is like where we're going.
And so we're really excited to get to open testnet to have everybody kind of play around with it and
see what we've been doing. And then also again, build more great things on top. And so that's
kind of like short term what's happening with the roadmap and what to what to look for ahead.
And then yeah, like I would say, you know, we're always, you know, again, we think RWA's are
still like while they're growing, they're still new, you know, and so, you know, there's a lot of
a lot to do here, both in like building, but also supporting the ecosystem, you know, doing coverage
on it. So there's there's a million things to do here. And so, you know, for anyone interested in
any capacity, you know, feel free to like, please follow us on on Twitter and X, join us in Discord
and Telegram, you know, everything's everything has been there. And then of course, we're always
happy to chat anytime, you know, for us, you know, we want to build a community around RWA's
and crypto, and really build products for the crypto community as well. And so, you know, any
ideas, thoughts, questions, you know, you want to join the community, be an ambassador, any of these
types of things, ping me anytime. I'm always on on either Twitter or just email us or we're in
Discord. And so ping us whenever and we're always happy to chat. Amazing, thank you for sharing that.
Yeah, those are ways to get involved with plume. So yeah, make sure to follow them on X, Telegram,
and their Discord too, for more. Yeah, for more announcements. And, and yeah, maybe you can get
the alpha there. I don't know. Let's see. Yeah, well, Chris, I saw that you're also going to with
Denver, right? Like, I like to ask you, like, where are your plans there? We're going there. So
we can, yeah, no, we would love to, that would be great to, it's always been fun to hang out in
real life and then grab a drink and, you know, get shitty in the snow. So I think that would be a
ton of fun. We're doing a bunch of events at East Denver. So anyone coming to East Denver, we will
publish our list of events soon. We're hosting, you know, I think it's about 10 events across
multiple things, both daytime night time, you know, we've got like both happy hours, lunches,
actual events, we've got, you know, you know, you know, speak easy nights and stuff like that. And
so, you know, and we're doing a bunch of partnerships with, with folks around there. And so
you'll see us at, you know, events with Celestia and events with watches and a bunch of protocols
that we're doing stuff with. And so, you know, really anything RWA, you should see us there. So
anytime that if anyone's going to East Denver, come up, we'd love to meet you and, and, and talk
anytime and also just, you know, grab a drink or take a shot or something. And we can always hang
out around there and go from there. Yeah, highly recommend, highly recommend hanging out with the
plume team guys. It's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure working with you. You know, I knew,
I knew Jason from his, from his layer zero day. So I was really excited to see him.
See us be able to work really closely together, you know, on the Arbitrum side of things.
Talking with the team, I, I understand plume is
a permissionless chain or somewhat of a semi-permissioned chain.
Can you tell us a little bit about why that decision had to be made because
as it relates to the RWA space? Totally. Yeah. I think it's a good question. I'm glad you brought it up.
It's a good question because a lot of people when they hear RWA, I think of KYC, I think of
permission, a permission environment, and nothing kills usage faster than, than fucking permissioning
things, right? And, and having a KYC around on the other side, though, there's a good reason for it.
It's not that people do this stuff for fun, right? It is very useful. And you do need to do this for
many of the items that people are actually buying, right? When you're talking about different security
tokens or treasures or whatever, many of these things do have to be permissioned in some sense,
and you need to do some KYC behind it. So some people like overly fixate on this point.
What they do is they build these walls around their protocols or build the walls around the
ecosystems that don't let people in. Our view is a little bit different, which is ultimately,
again, like if you're focused on a, if you're focused on, if you're focused on a particular
type of asset or an asset class, right, then I can see why that would lead you to make these
decisions. But for us, we're focused on one thing. Again, we're focused on end-views. We're focused
on people using things today. And so if you focus on that, and that's the only thing we're maxing
about, then our perspective is you have to, you have to keep it open, right? Because I think it
sort of fills softly with the wheel. We want to keep it open both because we think it's the right
thing to do. But also, truthfully, it's also great for us from a, like an innovation perspective,
right? Allowing people to build it, like it's more in line with the sort of values of crypto,
what we want to do here. We want to build an open permissionless chain that allows people to build
what they need to on top, right? And create the sort of environment that fosters and builds
new products and experiences that we didn't already have and know today, right? To me,
that's the magic of all crypto and why things are great and why we're able to build stuff on top and
crypto moves so quickly because of that. And so I think Phil Stockley being very aligned with that
is an important part of this story. And so that's why we want to stay open and permissionless and
allow anyone to come in and build on top. Now, that being said, some things do require some level
compliance and closing things off. And so what we need to do there is we provide tooling to make it
very easy for those protocols at a local level to wall things off or gave things off or provide an
extra set of checks for those users to come in. That's the idea behind that, right? Where you can
create these small areas where you have that. And then not only that, if you have to use those
things, you know, it's integrated with us at a network level. So this way, when you go around
the entire network, it's not that each individual protocol has its own level of security and checks
you have to do every single time to come in and out, right? It's integrated with us entirely
in the network. So if you do have to do those things, you do it once and not more than that,
right? And it sort of interflows and interoperates between all these things. So the idea very much,
again, like if you if you look at our view purely from the from our lens of the end user,
the decisions we make make sense. We want users, we want developers, we want people to come in,
but if you have to use these things, how do we do this in a way that makes it as easy as possible
for end users to not have to, you know, do these checks multiple times or do a bunch of over and
over and just provide this very annoying process to have to get these rules and done, right? So how
do you integrate with that at a more at a lower level in the stack that makes it very, very easy
for the user to still go around if they have to do it. But ultimately, our philosophy is open,
permissionless, right and allowing people to come and build an experiment on their own.
So that's our view. But I'm curious, like you guys have seen stuff here, you know,
you know, Chase or the arbitrary team, you know, curious your reaction or any comments,
what you guys think about it.
I love what you guys are doing. You know, there's certain risks that you guys have to mitigate.
And I think your, your approach has struck the almost struck a very delicate balance between
being compliant, but also, you know, sticking to like the crypto ethos of
being as permissionless as you can. Obviously, if you're selling
serious amounts of assets, and you are based in the United States, it's a certain types of assets
based in the United States. There's certain risks you take being fully permissionless. So I think
you guys have done a great job of striking that balance. And then yeah, if it's something like a
sneaker or a or a Pokemon card, then there's no reason that it shouldn't be fully permissionless.
So you guys have done a great job of bridging those gaps, I think.
Yeah, totally. No, I appreciate it. I think I think you're right. It is a delicate balance.
But look, I think at the end of the day, if we forget what we're doing here, which is trying to
bring RWAs to to crypto people and to crypto in general, closing things off and putting a bunch
of rules in place is only going to slow it down. So it's a tricky thing to try and strike in the
middle where you want to stay compliant and make sure we're not doing anything that we shouldn't
be doing, but at the same time, keeping it open, you know, so anyway, totally that makes sense.
Yeah, thank you. This is super interesting, to be honest. And yeah, I very, very interesting
thoughts, thoughts there. So yeah, very cool to see you here now. And yeah, well, Chris, I know
we are almost to finish this AMA, but wondering if you would like to share something else to the
community or something that we haven't touched yet. No, I mean, the only thing I think I would
want to say is look like, you know, please come, you know, we're always looking for new folks and
like minded people to come and help us and also people who aren't like minded to come and debate
and help sharpen our points and make sure we're doing things right. You know, we're still early
in building a lot of stuff in flight, you know, we're definitely flying the plane while we're
building it. And so, you know, always looking for for anyone and everyone to to come and to come and
interact and collaborate and build with us. And so always thankful for that. And the
team is a good example of people who've just been like really great and supportive for this whole
thing. And so, you know, we love any partner. I like that as well. And I think overall, at the end
of the day, like the RWA community is new. And so my only comment is, you know, I think RWA is today
have seen a bit of a have seen a lot of love in in the press and narrative recently, right, because
of what's been going on. And my only comment is, look, I think that's the initial spark. You know,
a lot of people think it's very institutional and very, you know, very financial and all. And
there's just a million things that we can do with it. Right. And so all I would say is like,
keep your minds open. And there's a million things to try here. We're super excited by a bunch of
protocols and things that people are building. And so, again, would love to talk to anybody here,
come to our events, please join. Please join us on Twitter and telegram and discord.
And, you know, of course, you know, there's a bunch of exciting stuff coming up soon with
the incentivized testnet. And then, of course, Maynet coming up as well. And we're doing a bunch
of partner, a bunch of collabs with with our partners using our our our comments with Celestia
and a bunch of folks like that. So a lot of things coming up that should be great for the community.
And so always, always looking for more folks here and, you know, hype to to to one, just
talk to all of you guys today. And I'm looking forward to doing more.
Amazing. Yeah, looking forward to. And yeah, if, as you heard, if you want to
to know about all the alphas, you should join plume telegram and discord. And yeah, for sure,
we are going to be maybe amplifying some content here as well. But yeah, maybe you can get it for
for the first hand with plumes X account or their other accounts on social media.
And say what's up to them at East Denver if you're there.
Chase, are you guys going to December?
Yeah, yeah, we'll definitely have to meet up.
Love it. Perfect. Perfect. Well, come find us. We'll grab a drink together and we'll have a good time.
So thanks again for the for the Arvishan folks. Thanks for having us here. And then thanks to
everyone for for joining listening in. And we'll see you on the web.
Absolutely. Looking forward to see what you guys do this year.
All right. Take it easy. Thanks.
Thank you very much. Thank you, everyone who joined us. See you in the next AMA.