Hi, how are you? I'm good. How are you doing? Okay, thanks. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Let's just wait for a few more people
join and then we can kick things off. Awesome. Are we waiting for anyone else on your team? I know currently I'm the only one joining. Awesome. Cool.
Max, are you there? Yep, I'm here. How are you doing? Doing well. Doing well. Happy to be doing another Twitter space, getting to show off what's going on in the ecosystem.
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, thank for joining us for the pseudo stake team.
So do you want to just start by telling us a little bit about yourself while we wait for a couple more people to tune in?
So my name is Muhammad Ali and I'm the call to the new path. So the six. Bounce myself. Is it personally about myself or like my anything you want to share really how did you get into crypto
Maybe how long have you been the Cosmo ecosystem? Whatever you feel comfortable sharing. I joined the Cosmo ecosystem in 2021. I think that's almost three years now.
coding for over 10 years now. But for the most part I've been very free and I've worked with two based companies. Building where perhaps our side infrastructure and all of that. But it was in 2020 that I really
shifted my focus into the crypto space. So as usual, I started out doubling into like a theory on smart contracts. Then think I did one or two stuff on near protocol before I discovered
the cost most of the system. So I discovered the cost most of the system through osmosis. So then I was reading a blog post and they were talking about this concept of an interaction there.
have all of the sovereign blockchains all working together, IBC and all of that. So I got really excited by the whole concept, you know, of horizontal scaling when you come to blockchains. So and then most is just released their, you know, version one for your front.
So then we started, then I started testing it out, you know, taking LTE and all of that stuff. So before I, you know, was opportunity to work with the TRChancing, so I was actually doing some smart contract work for them.
for a while before the whole VMache took over. So that's when I started working focusing a lot of my attention on building through the stage because it was actually a pinpoint that I had.
I used to take across different locations and work times when I went to like, we draw my stick, I have to wait this long, you know, and came with all these, you know, inconveniences and opportunities because so that was when I started like looking at different, you know, solutions
I'll be in the market trying to bring liquidity into the statements first. And yeah. Okay, cool. So do you want to tell the audience on a high level for those who don't know what exactly is pseudo-stake?
And what can people do with it? That's actually a very good question. So let's start from this simple analogy of bonding your tokens directly to the network. So it looks like a very simple problem at first. You have an extra
So if you are not going to get the account, you can't get the account to control your private keys, then you bond your tokens directly to the network from that account. So the problem is your tokens are locked to the network, so you cannot easily move them around.
you cannot even leverage the underlying assets as collateral in case you are trying to maybe borrow some money in a decentralized exchange. So yeah, a couple of solutions came up to solve that problem. I think one of them is liquid-staking, so where you
a positive influence into a smart contract and gives you these receipts that can then go ahead and use different defy protocols. Then I think one that was also very popular at one point was this took half a fluid stake in tin that was mostly source door.
So we are by somehow able to figure out how to also make people who actually supply liquidity to their tools to be able to benefit from generating something like that. But what I'm really interested in is how
you can actually still be in control of your tokens while taking a direct utility network and also be able to leverage it for that list cases. So for example when you take a token's direct utility network what happens is it's locked you can't you can't
So you just clean the sticking words and if you want to do stuff with your tokens, you have to unbund and you have to wait for the unbunding pillar to be complete and all of that. To me that was actually waste if I had another option but very inconvenient because at least I know these tokens are still on the mycostody.
Now, how about we instead of just taking our tokens directly, how about we take them instead through smart contract accounts? So instead of taking from externally on the account, so you create a smart contract account called
then you deposit your tokens into the vault and you can still carry out your stake in operations as usual. But interesting part is because it is a smart contract account so there is the possibility for you to write cost-term logic that leverage is that on the line stake. So first of all, let's take a little
look at the properties of the underlying state we are interested in leveraging. So one of them is the intrinsic value of the state token itself. The another one is the governance rights that comes with that state tokens and the third one is the rewards claiming rights that also comes with it. So now because we are
taking our tokens using smart contract accounts, so we can do something like, for example, instant transfer of assets. There's something as simple as just if you have your token sticked and you want to transfer that sticked position from one account to another, something as simple as that.
It's very difficult to be doing this directly, so with smart contract accounts, it's instant because it's an extra logic that you can write that transfer on a ship of that smart contract instance to another user. So the underlying asset just remains in the account and you just do that transfer immediately without thinking about it.
The aspects of this whole set of them really interested in is okay now that we have a smart contract account and we now know that we can actually access this in the line properties. Can we leverage on the this on the line properties to request for liquidity? So what do I mean by that?
For example, because you are taking through using smart contract accounts, you can do something like, how about I request a session amount of liquidity in exchange, the lender who actually gives me that liquidity just to claim this taken and was generated by my fault about time. So it is perfectly possible because
because you now have access to this extra layer which is powered by a cousin wasm. So another thing you could do is fix the interest rent out. So you could rent out your derived sales taking awards as well as governance rights.
You know to a lender in exchange a lender can claim a 16 amount of rewards over time So you could say I need X amount of liquidity then exchange the lender gets to claim I don't know like maybe 1000 shares of a time generated as to your words So that's not what you could do
So now you see something that was used to be very immobile and you know, rigid, you can actually extend it and start, you know, exploring these various options of leveraging this online asset to request for liquidity. So another thing you can do for example is you can, you know, can use
the underlying state assets for fixed-term loans. For fixed-term loan purposes. So here you are essentially putting up a liquidity request. I have the state tokens and I'm requesting for X amount of money. You should buy default. You can withdraw this specific amount as collateral.
If I'm going to repair you back eventually I will repair you back the principile plus the setting amount of interest. So all of this will not possible before because like when you step from your ex-end on a current like I mentioned earlier there's no smart contract capability so now when you do like
when you move your assets into these vaults and you start taking your assets into these vaults, all of a sudden you see how flexible the host-taking process becomes. And the good thing about this whole thing is that you are still 100% in control of your assets, so you are never giving it away to anybody that positions into a touch-party point.
contract, you know, exchange for like a, um, was called receipt or something like that, you know, you can, so essentially you, you, you still maintain 100% control of your assets while being like, why I still being able to like, you know, like access these various options for requesting for liquidity. Um, so
To me, the whole takeaway from this conversation is, I think smart accounts are the future because they're possibly serious and less. So it really brings that peer-to-peer defied of all isn't talking about. It makes it real because now you're assets and you know,
like custom logic that's the individual control in a pay to pay fashion is now possible. So doing the design to the sake was the smart contracts themselves, they just hold this, you know,
this rules. So each takeer can go ahead and mint their own vault, they'll deposit their assets into their vault and continue to do what they already know how to do before, like sticky assets, clean the road, three dedication and all of that. But it's time around, there are all of these options that come
So just to put the whole long story short, these three options are mentioned, I just do ones that I think are important to kick off with. So eventually they could be like iterations. We are by a new rules are added. So each that's involved in us can now actually have access to
to more functionalities backed by the Aztec assets. Yeah, so that's it for now. Awesome. That's that was great explanation. Thank you. So I guess on to
go into a little bit more of a detailed approach. So these smart contract accounts also known as pseudo-stake vaults. So what are exactly the functionalities that each pseudo-stake vault has? So like when you're staking your tokens via a pseudo-stake vault, what can you do with the derivatives of that?
what can you do with those vaults? So, so currently, what you have to do is, so right now, if you are taking your access to a vault, so you can carry out the standard, taking function functions, such as delegating your tokens, redelification,
Then you can request for liquidity based on what we just discussed earlier. So now what happens is that when you create a liquidity request option on your vault, so this becomes available in. So before I go into that, let me just mention that currently the William design, it is now the smart contracts include
So the next phase is the data indexing phase. So the plan is to pull this information about these different vaults into an off-chain database that's easier to access through and retrieving information from.
So what happens is when a user creates a liquidity request option, so then it's like an open marketplace where anybody can go and see the options that are open that currently available for being accepted by a lender who's interested in that particular
So I could have like, let's say two volts like managing like two different portions of my assets. Then in the event I'm interested in like, you know, requesting certain amount of liquidity from like, you know, or that lend us in the systems or
I have to leave us to open one of these options based on my preferences and anybody who actually have the particular request and utility can go ahead and fund it. So it's just like an open marketplace where there's no preferential treatment so essentially and again here's
When you are using AMMs, the interest rate is usually set by the pool. But now, each individual vote owner can actually set their interest rates. So the whole idea of, you know, MV becomes non-existent because it's like now, like, truly, like,
pay to pay for the career by people who have assets, people who have the equity to cash, and they don't do business on a pay to pay level. Do you think that by providing, I guess, that kind of flexibility, it will create a more competitive market? Because to your point, you can set your own individual interest
straight if you will in those vaults. So therefore you have a little bit more, I guess, control over how the view arvers others because you could offer a better rate or what have you. Is that correct, I guess, from your perspective? Yeah, that's how that's how it works. So if I say I
I wanted to use my fault request for if fixed and loan for example. I need this specific amount of money and I'm going to pay you back after some amount of time with X amount of interest in return.
the event of default then I'm setting aside X amount of collateral for liquidation. So it's I think the best explanation here is it's an option so you have to open these options like an options market place where every vault owner has the option to like create a liquid
future requests, then market participants can then see all of these options, then they can now see with base on their preferences. So if I'm a lender, for example, and let's say I'm a small scale lender and I'm interested in people who are requesting let's see $1,000 some below. So then it feels
and returns less than 5 results. So I can decide to like, you know, fund all of these options based on the interest rates that... So I can decide to fund all of these options, actually matches my queries. So for example, I want all options below $1,000 and this setting amount in interest rates.
So based on your sash terms, you get to see different faults actually fit into that criteria. So what I think lies is that people can actually write things like they can automate their liquidity provision process, so it doesn't have to
to like the manual whereby you go into each vault and individualize select the ones you want to find. So you can just fill out based on setting criteria and you just use your options. Just the way you have like sweep in all these empty market cases. So you could pretty much have like a functionality like that.
You know, you can feel that there's a criteria and just mark everything and just fund that with them at once. And do you do you think this has any impact on I guess decentralization or do you see it as just you know independent? You know operators getting to have more customization?
So the thing is, if you, the reason why I like taking the rest of the internet work is because of that non-cost rodeo nature of it. But then it has some issues that we are trying to use false to, like using false taking to fix.
So it doesn't affect the decentralization of the network because now you are still in control of your assets. Also every delegator in this case, essentially, you are saying every delegator can now, you know,
you know, take their tokens to the network, which is to be honest, the most important thing you should be doing with your N1 tokens, because that's how you participate in the governance process and also the security of the network. So imagine each individual delegator who has taken to the network, having the
on still subject to like undiligation, like bonding periods and things like that. Okay, so how it hard works is like on evokes there are like series of functions like the and they are also like set of permissions. So, Lendaz have like
that they can interact with. So for example, they can interact with blame rewards function. So lenders can interact with the liquidity spillout function in the event. And also like, so I think there's two primary functions that lenders can interact with.
So the delegate, on the delegate, still remains the functions that the false owner can have access to. However, if we go in depth into how this logic works, there are
rules as to when you can delegate and when you can delegate and delegate and stuff like that. So imagine for example if there is an active liquidity request so the on-deligate function is not active so the lender cannot you know rob you.
I didn't have a day, you know, by taking your money and then on delegating, still can't live in and living with them. So this mass contract already has like the logic is already in there, I think forces, all of these different nuances such that there's like this
authorization that is properly scooped to both the default owner and the lander's attendee giving point in time.
Okay, cool. And so what was it that drove you to the build on archway specifically the openness to be honest. I mean, you know, sometimes it's difficult building when the world is listening to you. So yeah, I actually love that occasion.
And I really think that sharing ideas and have people like really scrutinizing and appreciating them and also giving me that platform to build.
puts the developer first because, you know, especially when it comes to like building decentralized applications. You know, if the value is, you know, right now, so essentially, it's an experiment, like, making like putting the developer first, making sure that, you know, they are able to like
build and what they are building if it's successful, they're able to get some real admiration from that. So I actually, like, cheating to this special conflict, and that's the reason why you know, what really has to
make it like the first blockchain that has a solution deployed in it. Well, first off, that's awesome to hear that you're at least getting some feedback from the community. That's one thing we're really trying to do in general with this whole community with archway is we're going to support the developers from the actual
framework of the blockchain to give you guys that ability to build knowing that there's a way to build an sustainable model. But then it's also building a community of people who want to help and want to assist in kind of expanding the entire ecosystem. Now these are just
just like even beyond, right? Like we should be working together, even interchained, cross-chain all of it to just build better products and that better interoperability. So I think getting a core group of people on our way who are just communicating and willing to listen and willing to help build is a good
start and then we can also start to include more communities, right? Like cross-chain is something I think is very important. I'm being able to move liquidity seamlessly. So in general, I'm just happy that you did wind up on Archway. We're excited to have you for sure. I'm excited to have your product as well.
Yeah, thanks. Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more with that. And so that being said, is there any way that you guys are planning to leverage the unique developer incentives on our toy on pseudo stake?
So the one I actually was really interested in is GAS theory bit. So although I've not like programmed that into his smart contracts yet because I wanted to like really communicate with somebody who understands the data I do. So we can actually go through how the code works and
No, exactly how it's fit in or and we are it fits in because I want I want the situation where by people interacting with the defaults Can do that at zero is it possible to do that at zero like gas fees or based on usage All these gas fees generated by all these mirrors
for using the state code, that is used for subsidizing using this smart contract. So that's actually the last piece I need is the last script cut piece I want to add. So you actually can do that. So if you utilize, so obviously the
The grant module has been part of the Cosmos SDK. That basically allows you to refill that contract up and then utilize those tokens as a subsidized the gas fees essentially. That's free to the user. That's certainly something you can do on Ardroy. To your point, what you could also do
do is take that fee splitter gas rebate and that could be basically deployed so that all those rewards go to the fee grant. And therefore you would not need to have any gas and you can do the same with the actual inflation as well because of the way the protocol is signed.
Each block, a certain amount of tokens will be allocated to the contracts that are being utilized the most based on gas. So, you know, regardless of whether you kind of update your contracts or not, you're going to be having a portion of the fee split and the inflation that's going to be allocated to whatever contract or address
you set within the contract. So that could be a great way to kind of take those funds, put them into the fee grant, and now your users can use the platform gasless. And that is always a great user experience when you don't have to think about the cost of using it or even having to see what's being
down on the back and you can just use the actual platform. Yeah, and wanted to ask one question. So the, you know, given the nature of SOS, we have each like delegator creating their own unique vault. So is it so how do you then coordinate all of these
gas is generated across all these nodes. So because the idea is because collectively, collectively, all the vault owners like generate fees like interacting with their individual vaults. So like, I was thinking like, do we
We have to like, how do you spread the, you know, because the issue here is when you have like multiple smart contract accounts, so each one managed by the individual indicator. So how do we then collect all of these fees and point it to one particular contract address?
So this could be done in a few different ways. So one team that we've been talking to is building a rewards distributor contract. And what that would do would allow you to set a specific account where you could accumulate tokens or rewards. And then through that contract, you could
then build out, for example, a weighted average, some sort of weighted way to allocate out those rewards based on, let's say, TVL in the contract or gasoline assume by that contract. There's different ways you could kind of use this distribution contract to send it to the individual accounts based
on whatever criteria you decide is a good way to determine. Or you could actually set up each individual's smart contract to accumulate their own gas fee rebates and inflation from the use of that contract. And that could just be repurposed as gas fees.
I may be missing a few things just because I'm not looking at the full documentation, but just from a high level, those are two options I think you could utilize. Yeah, I see. So essentially, like the more a user interacts with your vaults, the more cards you generate, and eventually some of the transactions end up becoming
free because they can't oh I see so it's so it's gonna be like now it's gonna be based on an individual like vault on our like level so no longer like it's not like central because to take is not one contract that everybody uses it's it's
system that allows you to create your own smartphone track account and have that functionality for yourself. And so when you create an account, I imagine you have to enter into a transaction where smart contract interaction occurs and then it creates the actual account, right? Yes.
So I think you guys from the pseudo-sake style obviously will control that initial contract to create the vault. So that's where you guys would be able to control all the rewards, the premiums, things like that. And then you could basically leave it up to the actual vault creators to
determine where they want the rewards to accumulate. And just going even one step further, referrals is a service which we can probably introduce you to if you haven't already to Chris, he may have something in his product that could be a solution where they could almost have a referral
to your vault creation contract so that every time someone interacts with their vault that they created a portion would actually go back to your original contract because they would be able to refer that their contract was created from your vault contract so therefore your vault contract is subject to
certain amount of rewards. So I would have to dive a bit deeper with you on the technical side and with, I think we should definitely get you in touch with them and see if there's a possibly already an existing solution and if not, we can kind of ideate on how we could solve that.
Cool. I'm looking forward to that. See that's what it's all about. We love that we're building a community that really is going to be gaps, helping gaps, and then the entire ecosystem, just helping prop each other up, right? That's the whole idea of incentive
and enabling developers and empowering them. And this is going to be, you know, at the end of the day, their chain. So, yeah, these connections only make us stronger. And, you know, we love to see that our builders really just get together and help each other out. But just as we have the 30-minute mark, well,
We want to learn more about to the stake, but if any audience members have any questions, please go ahead, raise your hand, and come on up as we wrap up the discussion. >> Just to piggyback off what Valeria mentioned with the developers, this is exactly what we're looking at.
for this type of feedback because a lot of what we're building is very new. It's just it hasn't been done before so there's a lot to be learned about how this how to build these functionalities into the contracts and what is the best way of going about designing certain applications to function with these new kind
of innovative rewards. So I appreciate that you're asking these questions even live just because we can kind of workshop them in and going forward. I hope some of these discussions will be aimed at just general questions from developers and builders in the space where they can just openly ask some questions like this or hey how would you recommend doing this?
We can come up with new innovative apps or even use cases just a lot of times crowdsourcing ideas is the best way to come up with these type of new use cases because the more people's views you can get in as feedback the more you can see what's missing, right? What are people actually wanting to use but what's not available?
So I just like I said I just want to say I appreciate you guys being on this space and just being open and asking questions and trying to figure out how you can incorporate more things into your product. So really exciting stuff. Yeah, absolutely. And here we have a Kaku on the line. Kaku, do you have any questions?
Yeah, thank you for talking today, pseudo. I just wanted to ask if you could give like pros and cons versus from like pseudo stake versus like a liquid-staking group, or is that like kind of even a weird question to ask? I don't know.
I don't think so yet question to ask but to me I believe that I think in the market we shouldn't have just one type of solutions. So having multiple different approaches to the same problem, it's actually a good way to go. But looking at, so
What I can say is, with students taking what you get out of the box when you are taking directly plus the extra ability to use the underlying properties of your state assets to request for liquidity. We are just making this taking process better in itself.
The only thing I want to mention about Leukeus taking is that I don't know, like I see some rationalized, rationalized it to me properly. Why do I have to give up control of my original stake in exchange for a receipt like
Yeah, I understand the fact that you could use it as collateral in like different Defi ecosystems, but now I think they have to be some type of a disclaimer there. So you just get to understand that this is not you are not you are not in control of the original state you are not in control of it right fashion
fit. And so in case anything happens, you know, you know, you know, the narrative tokens is now going to become worthless. So that's not it now, I don't understand. Like if we say decentralized network and everybody is
supposed to be in control of like their A1 tokens. So how come we are depositing it into a tech passive contract? Just to construct a one-tliplity. If we can, because the whole thing we still take
is, yeah, you still are in control of your assets. Now, plus the ability for it to entail to these decentralized peer-to-peer trades with the P2 providers. And you can see how this can be incorporated in things like DAO's. Sometimes they might want to access
to be there, like their staff members working in that particular doubt. So now they still have their access and their control, they can see make it participating like governance directly, but this time around they can
And you know, still uses asset petipate request for like stable coins to pay people who are working on that particular data with them. So I just like the whole idea of you know, being in control of your asset like the thing that is you know, for example, I see for example like Bitcoin on
Let's say Bitcoin in Ethereum, like, wrapped Bitcoin and stuff. So I don't hold those ones too much because I just probably if I'm trying to do it three, I just go out quickly because I know if I want to hold Bitcoin, I have to do it in my ledger on Bitcoin minutes.
I think that's what I also want to encourage everybody to be doing. Like if you are holding this at one token, it's better to hold the actual tokens than the derived version of it because it kind of gives you this direct control of it. So there are rooms, like situations
you might want to use liquid-staking. For example, I think the USDC, for example, is a kind of liquid-staking protocol because the real USD lies back and it is not what you have access to. So you have access to this USD coin. So there are risk countries, trade-offs,
And using distance so it all depends on you know what the user really wants Like for someone like me who just wants to take my token and you know and like passbiting governance You know claim my sticking words so having this extra you know possibilities of being able to like leverage in the nine assets to me is a big plus
Great. Thank you so much for that explanation for the question. So yeah, we're just about to run out of time. So first I'd like to thank you, Mohammed, for joining and talking about to to stay sharing with the archway community.
Thank you, Max, for joining and asking your fabulous questions. You always do. And thanks to everyone who's listening. So be sure to follow SudoStake on Twitter. Um, Kug, uh, Muhammad, is there anything else that you want to add? You know, maybe if anyone has any questions, we're going to contact you guys. Should they DM your SudoStake account?
I think Mohamed Ramut. No worries. Thank you very much for having me. I really enjoyed talking about taking on how to unlock liquidity from the classic.
place to read you if anyone has any other questions? Should they DM the Statistics Twitter account? Yeah, you can you can DM my Statistics Twitter account. It's active and also you can reach me on Telegram T.me/palingram. So that's my personal
Telegram accounts. So I'm all who like pretty active on Telegram as well. Awesome. Great. Well, thank you so much. I hope everyone has a great rest of the day. And tune in. Back to the next one. Bye everyone. Thanks everyone. Bye.