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Art Basel recap, Digital Art moment & next on Coffee w/ Captain #1,047
Recorded: Dec. 8, 2025 Duration: 2:20:33Space Recording
Short Summary
Doodles is launching a new collection of 25,000 Doopie Cubes on Solana, aiming to engage their community and generate significant revenue. This move reflects a broader trend in the NFT space as projects adapt to changing market dynamics and explore innovative engagement strategies.
Full Transcription
Blast by Bungie Topping the pyramid schemes, I'm telling you I'll sell you a percentage on Nebula Shout out to Vince, yo, set it up
Surfing on the web and I'm shooting at three
I've been goaded when I got my G
I'm an elegant boy
From a different planet, yeah
So I got my drink, I'm riding in the 1920s
Model T, Ford, car, era, Lord
Call me Levi, playing them keys, boy
Can I buy it for my gloves on?
If I said it, then I meant that
Yeah, I like that one, I'm about to get them all.
Are you with that?
In white boat, surrounded by blue.
I want one, but I got a cop turned.
I want to fly high in the sky.
Arms out wide, trying to swim from a bird time view.
I'm on fire, Ricky, Bobby.
Cracking the pavement, Whitney, Bobby.
I'm a Saki Bomb
Hiroshima Nagasaki
Bruce Wayne been a dog
And I keep it 101
Cause I'm feeling kinda spotty
Sipping on Ciroc and I'm sipping on Octane
The only thing around my neck is the block with a bit
Now I got coin
I see where y'all going
Been popping since web 1
Hella hope you're on web 2
I was living the dream
Now I'm on web 3
And it ends with the seams Topping the. Now I'm on Web 3.
And it ends with the seams.
Topping the pyramid schemes.
I'm telling you.
I'm selling a percentage on Nebula.
Shout out to Viz.
Yo, set it up.
NFT, Twitter, blockchain.
See them with the ghosts and we balling like the brown jay.
Crypto, crypto.
We can make a trade, get the memo.
Refuse not falling for the FOMO.
Listening to Coffee with Cabin.
You know we weren't wide-day loco.
I ain't never gonna stop rapping.
Orlando, yeah, we working magic.
We rocking your theory and minutes.
I just went and caught me a half bass.
Man, I gotta shout out the 40.
Now I got coins.
I see where y'all going. Been popping since Web 1.
Hella hoops on Web 2.
I was living the dream. now I'm on web three
And it is what it seems
Toppin' the pyramid schemes, I'm tellin' ya
I'll sell you a percentage on Nebula
Shout out to Vince, yo, set it up
Breakin' the mood to choose one
But it got knowledge to move, son
I'm shockin' in shades with my brother in suits
Yeah, them blues, it's comin'
Even though it's hard to pick
Eenie, mineie, moe
Soda on the mix, no bit lips, it's time to go.
Index number one, no thumbs up, you gotta scroll.
Looking at the ghosts in studio, it's time to go.
Had a helmet on by myself until I met a mask that wanted to have a face off.
Had to bring my chainsaw full ticket gas in the drive with my brakes off.
I'm A1, but a different kind of stakes off.
Welcome to Coffee with Captain, powered by ApeC eight coin where we dive into all things crypto
nfts web3 and cutting-edge technology remember nothing here is financial advice early stage
tech can be exceptionally volatile and risky so grab your coffee and join cap and see for today's
conversation welcome to the audience. Just give me a hundred or a thumbs up if you can hear me okay. Same thing would be appreciated. We're live over on Abstract
as well as YouTube. Both those are pinned up top
as well.
I also just noticed it might have been
Abstract reverberating.
Is that the word reverberating? Am I using that
in his correct form? Shout out to
RDL always over
there in...
I didn't understand. He was number
two and then the thumbs up post got him number one.
He stole the crown on YouTube. Solomon and Von Fronten, you're slacking over there
in the YouTube streets. But appreciate y'all. Hope everyone had a great weekend. Everyone
except the IU fans. Hope everyone else had a great weekend. That might be the last we talk
about IU and Ohio State. Unless Von Fronten joins, he can have the stage for like 30 seconds. But other than that, appreciate y'all. Kazi and Katie in the abstract chat. We are live. Seems like we are
good. The only last check would be if we get a guest speaker on stage and we lose their audio.
But I think we're going to go. Actually, one more check. This morning is a Monday and a little bit
of travel was off. Okay, we're going to,
we're going to leave it as is both are on the road caster mics,
but one is on the main stereo.
The other was on the chat.
Sometimes this,
this throws off a little bit,
but the beauty,
it does give me the ability to step on top of guest speakers.
I believe the way it's set up currently,
so I can speak over Machiavelli or anyone else who wants to join in.
If I go stereo, stereo, I can't cut them off without muting the mic. GM,
Machiavelli, quick mic check. Mic check, mic check, one, two, one, two. Loud and clear to me. Thank you. Thank you for coming up. Great to see you in Art Basel. Hope you enjoyed the trip. Are you
still in Miami, or did you make it back home? No, man, I'm not going to be home till Tuesday night.
Nice. Enjoy. So i got a couple of
meetings out here today and then i fly out tomorrow afternoon are there any i'm excited
to be here for another half a day day and a half and any any you know take care of any events or
anything that that are carrying on into today or just just one of just personal meetings any
anything personal meetings just trying to grow the brand and do what we do you know nice man
good for you respect the hustle and again great to see you as well as so many other friends at Art Basel.
It rejuvenated me.
I'm going to be honest.
I'm going to come in just to get it out there.
We're still cold open.
But for those of you that are here early,
you can hear it because I don't really care.
I really truly don't.
But I'm feeling a little like for some reason I'm feeling a little spicy.
So I might straw man the spicy side on this title I did to – I'm engagement farming.
A little sauce and
things up here people first burnt toast uh carrying over a conversation we're having in
the war room this morning i i might i don't want to spend the whole morning talking about doodles
and their their mint um i i you know i do want to talk about art basil and people and everything
else going on a lot of excitement a lot of good stuff a lot of exciting stuff i just um just feel
a little spicy so i might uh i might give it a little extra unwarranted spice just just to get
it out of my system we'll see um coffees only we got one one and a quarter coffees in me so
depending on how much we heat up we may we may kind of lean into that conversation uh
it's not fun i truly like it's a free country it's a free country, it's a free market,
anyone can make whatever they want
and charge whatever they want
on the blockchain.
But I will commentate on the market
and how I'm viewing things
and how I think there is some
potentially serious momentum,
serious momentum coming out of Art Basel.
I think it'll benefit the space at large,
could benefit the space at large, could benefit the space at large.
But it's different.
It's very, very, very different than 2021-22.
I do not think, and I think for those that want to have success in this market,
artists, builders, founders, pay attention.
Pay attention to those that are having success. Those are getting motion.
My GM post, which I took from the screenshot from Guchita was people searches all time high.
Maybe, maybe, maybe just the last three years may not have hit all time.
Let me, let me confirm my, uh, my timeline on this because I don't want to misspeak.
It might have just been over the last three years.
It might not have exceeded the actual Pico top.
Yeah, so since – yeah, all-time high since December 22.
So potentially, I guess, 21 during the $69 million sale probably went higher than this.
But if we look at the last three years, it's off the charts.
The chart is literally off the charts.
Google only goes to 100% interest, and it topped there.
So you can see December 22, three years ago, it was 50 to 25 interest.
A couple peaks, then about 60, 65 maybe.
Last time was, I'm not sure when that was.
September maybe is that peak?
I don't know what was Senate.
And then you see the Art Basel.
Like off the chart, people searching Beeple on Google.
These are normies.
These are, this is not Web3D gens aren't moving the Google needle.
Not on something like Beeple. This is not Web3D gens aren't moving the Google needle, not on something like Beeple.
This is meaningful.
And now I'm curious.
I might have to go back and look at 21 following the $69 million sale.
But my point being, it wasn't just Beeple.
Beeple, if you missed it, was the talk of Art Basel.
We hit it on Friday, so I'm not going to rehash the entire conversation.
But his exhibit was incredible.
He had these.
I'll pull up so you can, those of you watching in, I will pull up some images here.
The buzz.
I know you saw images.
I know you,
thanks in the timeline.
We talked about it on Friday.
It's all,
all of it,
I think is still not giving the full perspective of what was actually taking
place on the ground at our Basel.
It was pretty amazing cap.
I went and when we talk
about a crowd like that was the only place besides where they were selling food inside the convention
center people had a crowd the entire time people were like rotating in and out to get towards the
middle to take a picture i saw one of those dogs take a poop.
Yeah, you're getting a little, you're cutting it out,
but maybe take a lap.
We'll see if we get it working.
Yes, it was a massive crowd.
There was, and it wasn't just crypto DJs. Most of the crowd was anywhere from three years old to 93 years old, I'm guessing.
By the point being, it was young and old.
And it wasn't just crypto degens hanging around trying to get a free NFT that they could then sell for 10E.
It was art enthusiast. It was, you'd walk,
it was like all the way, like kind of in the back of the convention center. You'd walk, you'd get in,
you'd walk through Art Basel. There might be like a couple of people at every other exhibit having
a conversation, like a one-on-one conversation with the artist. At there might have been something experiential i might say that word 17 times this this episode
probably actually more like 69 times it's not just art i'm a firm believer
experiential wins as our world moves forward in the in the world of ai and and people are
chronically online they're on their're on their iPhones or their screens for
eight to 12 hours a day. When the e-commerce giants of the world, I don't know if you're
going to hear me. I'm just getting the spinning. You might need to take a full lap. Yeah. I tried
to add your Macrivela just to show up some full spinning. So probably leave, force close,
maybe check your X for updates. Anyways, I'm a firm believer in experiential retail is going to win.
Regular retail is dead, dying.
You simply can't sell a widget and expect to compete with Amazon.
You're going to lose.
You can't be a startup, create a widget, and think you can beat Amazon unless you somehow lock down a patent or IP and it's just unreplicatable.
Otherwise, you're going to lose.
You're going to lose to the e-commerce giants.
It just is what it is.
You have to give people a reason to come see you.
You have to give people a reason to come buy your products, your goods, that they can have some sort of emotional attachment to.
They're not just going to come go out of their way to an inconvenient retail store
to buy something
that they could buy online for less
and have today or tomorrow.
Same thing with art.
As the beauty of blockchain is great,
like digital art is great.
It's less friction to mint things,
to create art, to buy, sell.
The downside of that
is there's less friction.
It's much easier to create, buy, to create 25, to buy, sell. The downside of that is there's less friction. It's much easier to
create 25,000 supply collections at a fraction of the friction, the overhead and the lift that
it would take to create 25,000 physical pieces. If you want to stand out, you got to do things
differently. You got to have, I believe, this is the first, I don't know if I've had this conscious thought as it relates to art.
I've been thinking I'm a retailer by trade my entire life, and I felt, I had success in retail because of this.
I'm looking at a couple of retail concepts to help them scale because they're an experiential retail.
I think art, that was my biggest takeaway from Art Basel is digital art is winning because it can be more experiential
than physical art by itself. We finally reached this intersection where physical art, performative
art meets on-chain digital art. And it's incredible. It's just better than traditional art by itself.
It's also better than just digital art by itself. Sorry,
you NFT fanboys or those of you that think PFP NFTs are going to change the world,
not with tired mechanics, but when you combine the two worlds, that's where we win. That's everything that Art Basel, my biggest takeaway to TLDR, the whole entire thing,
you can't, like physical art's dying. Not dying.
I say that's a hyperbole.
It's very, I think it's going to be very difficult to break out, to scale in the physical art realm by itself without some high net worth donor or collector or a gallery.
You've got to almost catch lightning in a bottle.
I think the same thing on chain. But when you combine the two and you create some new mechanics, some new elements,
it's the talk of the town. If you've been on the show, you've heard me talk about Fred again.
I can't wait. I just found a new documentary I shared in the war room.
The title is Fred Again. It didn't go viral because of his music. It's because it's, he's creating experiential art.
If you don't know who Fred again is, go, go Google and look at his, look at any of his shows,
this current tour. It is absolutely electric. It gives me chills. Think about you couldn't go to
a show and not experience something. You may not like his music, but to have that experience in that real world setting, that's why he went viral and become a global phenomenon.
Not because of his music, because the experience and the emotions he invokes when he delivers that experience.
It's something special.
And I think this is where our world is heading.
It's not just online.
It's not just physical.
I think combining the two elements is the way forward on many fronts.
And my aha moment, my biggest takeaway from Art Basel was, oh my goodness, it's happening with art, courtesy of people, courtesy of this regular animals exhibit. Again, if you
missed it, quick TLDR, then we'll go to our guest speakers here. This exhibit was like a
fenced-in area, a dog pin, essentially, with these robot dogs you see on the header.
Zuck and tech titans and artists and dictators on these dog robots, which you think about what
people poured into this. The masks themselves on these dogs are several thousand dollars.
The robots, I have no idea, but they weren't just moving around. They were AI powered.
They were taking pictures of the audience and then they were pooping NFTs or prints.
The NFTs that they pooped out. Here's here's a glimpse of some of them.
Like one of the robot dogs took this picture, made art out of it.
And one of 256 people there got got the the thing they could redeem for an NFT, which you can see here on the screen.
got the thing they could redeem for an NFT, which you can see here on the screen. Current floor is
10.75 ETH or equivalent of $33,000. Shout out to OpenSea flipping back to ETH instead of USD.
I don't think there's a toggle. Maybe there is somewhere. I haven't seen it. I saw people
complaining about why they went USD. I did see some USD prices now appears to be back to ETH.
Maybe I'm just missing it. So maybe there's some setting on my end.
But there was 256 NFTs.
183 have been claimed.
I saw another take that this is going to be like the Lost Robbies.
People will not claim all these.
So it's probably not going to be 256.
It's probably going to be less than that.
And then some of them.
They were giving them to children first like literally
they gave it to a one year or two year old standing there with his parents and they like
put it at the bottom of the carriage and didn't like we i fought like we we left at the same time
as those people it was just sitting in the bottom of the baby carriage yep yep just if you could be
a favorite just let's stick with hands just a lot gone a lot i want to cover and i do want to get
through this i know we're just getting out of cover, and I do want to get through this.
I know we're just getting out of cold open, but I want to get to Emlo, who won one of these, had a big sale.
It's all on front and propped up, so I've got to give him the mic for at least 30 seconds, as I said.
But big morning.
A lot of not just Art Basel, a lot of other things took place or were on the timeline.
And we may – let me just double check.
Okay, cool.
We're going to do later this week.
We had another guest, but it was – I actually have two guests.
One, we did go ahead and reschedule for Friday.
And another one, we're going to reschedule for another.
Just not on the topic of necessarily Art Basel or...
I mean, cool, very timely topics.
Just not coming off Art Basel Week or the Doodles Man.
And I didn't...
It'll be a hard pivot.
So if anyone showed up for the cryptic special guest i i tweeted out yesterday um we will
have them on just just gonna gonna i have a feeling today's topic of the day news and trending
topics are gonna take most of the show and um diablito says in the abstract chat gonna burn
some toast bridges i see what you did there uh let's do this though. Imlo, GM, I know you're
on the ground. I know you scored one of these NFTs. Feel free to disagree. I don't think you'll
disagree with my take. Feel free to add to it. Oh yeah, XCopy Bubbles, we also have to talk about.
We also have to talk about Jack Butcher and his receipts. Every single one of these was experiential from three of the most
acclaimed digital artists of all time if you're an nft artist and you're just minting digital art
on blockchain and think you can run back a 21 22 playbook maybe it'll work i think you're gonna
have to need some cool mechanics i would strongly encourage you to take a look at xcopy, Jack Butcher, and Beeple and find a way to lean into experience.
I know you can't do something physical.
There's one Art Basel in Miami.
There's several Art Basels a year.
I'm not sure if it's inside info or known.
It's probably not known publicly.
So let me – I actually – I'll say this, and then we'll go to Imlo.
It was my first actual time attending Art Basel.
I've been to Art Basel week, four or five times.
This is my first time actually going to the conference.
Was fortunate I got hooked up with a VIP pass and actually become friends with someone who's kind of leading Art Basel or is leading Art Basel.
And I'll just say this, like there was, I think heading into it might've been a toss up, or is leading Art Basel. And I'll just say this.
I think heading into it might have been a toss-up,
whether this is me speculating,
might have been 50-50 whether 010
or the digital art exhibit would be a one-and-done
or would be at future Art Basels.
I'm almost certain you will see 0101-10 at future Art Bows.
Yeah, they're definitely going to repeat it.
It was the most successful showing,
maybe not in terms of financial,
but in terms of getting crowds there or whatever.
Like Machiavelli was saying,
people literally were standing in line to see some of these booths.
And like, I don't know, people don't normally stand in line.
Not only that. Like, I don't know, people don't normally stand in line. Not only that.
Yes.
Yes.
And yes, it was very like,
you could ask anyone who knew nothing about art,
nothing about digital art,
and just ask that walk through Art Basel's.
Like what was the, what was the busiest section?
What was the most popular section?
I think 99 out of a hundred would tell you zero, zero 10.
Like it wasn't even close. It was eye-opening how much attention that did. And it wasn't just people. Jack's session,
Jack Butcher's receipts or self-checkout was buzzing the whole time. X copies bubbles,
the washing machine was buzzing the whole time. X copies bubbles, the washing machine was buzzing the whole time.
The art blocks exhibit was,
there was people there the whole time.
Did you see the Mario Klingman exhibit
where you kneel down
and the AI guys give you a prayer?
I thought that was interesting.
I think like people using technology
in different ways
and using like you said, different mechanics for distributing art.
Jack selling literal receipts as the art piece is game changing in terms of like people are now realizing Art Basel.
Not that it's bullshit, but like the art industry in general, like can look at itself and laugh at certain aspects like
sometimes you are buying fluff sometimes you are just spending money on like the actual thing and
i don't know jack kind of turned that on its head and like by kind of showing how much the booth
costs and how much it would cost him to even break even and then kind of crowd sourcing that and
crowdfunding that from dollar by dollar and like manning the booth
himself warhol is not there manning his booth warhol doesn't have a booth he has galleries
that represent him because he's passed away many years ago and his art is just hanging on the wall
that can't really compete with someone that's there and can literally talk to the people
about the art that they made themselves like the artists i would say the artists were the biggest champions of of crypto
this week in terms of art basil and because they were there all day every day like people was
literally inside that pin for the entire day uh jack butcher was behind the the cash register
managing his storefront for the entire day and like i don't you you were in retail like what do you think in terms of like retail like sales i think jack they they earned an immense amount of respect for me not just as
i've been in retail i've i've worked booths at trade shows before nothing on the like at ces
still nothing on the scale that it is exhaustive like i had a team that worked with me but being on your feet
being on a show floor it's just standing you are interacting with other human beings
i don't know what was the time it was 11 a.m to what six
yeah but they showed up an hour early for previews. And you have to remember also, I think there were two VIP days before the regular even opened.
So they,
they've been on it for probably,
I would say like 10 to seven at minimum every day.
You're probably talking nine hours a day,
interacting with human beings,
nonstop,
like virtually zero break.
And they're also the,
the single marketing funnel for that.
They're the ones that were bringing in the people.
So they had to also be on social media somehow and responding to people and telling people to come when they weren't there.
Like people like was literally replying to tweets or whatever when he wasn't inside the pit.
It's like they deserve all the acc accolades all the credit because it is
it is and you know they probably didn't end there you know it's art basile week they probably had
dinners they probably had work to do before and after like i imagine they're absolutely exhausted
physically mentally like you could be the most i'm a i'm an extrovert. I'm outgoing. When I just go to a conference, I need a break afterwards.
It's exhausting to me just talking.
And I do this for, I enjoy talking to people.
It's still exhaustive when you talk to, like, one of my favorite things to do is host a conference.
We used to have our annual franchise.
I used to love it.
It was like I was in my flow state. And I would be on stage and emceeing from, you know, I go to breakfast and you're networking and talking and hosting while you're at breakfast,
you know, at eight o'clock. And then the conference starts at 10 and from 10 to five,
you're, you know, you're running the show and then you go to dinner. And I loved it.
And it's, I can't – like I also have played sports.
I'm pretty active.
I can't think of a thing that I've ever done that's been so exhaustive as hosting a conference or hosting a trade show booth because you just – you have no breaks.
It is so draining mentally and emotionally.
Like it's – because you're always on.
Like you just can't like take a breather.
It's literally nonstop from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to bed, they're on their A game.
And that is so tiring if you've never done it. So to do that and still have the energy and like you said, still be putting out the social stuff like it's really, really impressive.
And I just I want to make sure we get proper flowers there, not just for the results we're seeing,
but the effort that goes into it and not claiming to have ever done anything
like what they pulled off at Art Basel.
I'm just saying I would be shocked if they're not absolutely exhausted and
feel like they want to go to sleep for the next week.
Emlo, anything you want to, I don't want to, I don't want to.
Yeah, I would say yes it's yes it's tiring to go through a week of convention and all that other stuff but i'd also imagine a lot of them that i've spoken to feel very re-energized about the
space and like i think there's a new chapter that's starting for crypto art and for digital art in general.
And whereas the only reason that we even had 12 crypto galleries both attendees and also the artists bringing in the
audiences and bringing in traditional people to come show their work and view and experience
art in a different way, in a way that traditional art can't really compete.
And that's why I think you're going to see a lot more
experiential art coming across the world and you're already seeing it like rafiq's rafiq's
show at the mobile was the mobile's most popular show in 50 years or whatever that they had because
like you said it brought people from all ages and like it had kids involved and kids wanting to jump and play with the
interactive ai and whatever what you had at art basel is the same in terms of like
there was also there were more than 10 different artists that showed there
sorry someone just recognized me on the beach but um basically what i was saying is i think this is
like a very awesome moment for digital art and i think that it's going to be really dope for
like to see how it develops in the future and it's been really awesome to experience this in person
and obviously yeah i'm happy that i also was able to financially
benefit in terms of minting one of those people uh nfts and flipping it for 11 eth um but like
even had i not experienced that i still would have been happy congrats on the flips um i got
one more question then we'll get our hands here welcome welcome thomas to the stage new new speaker
we'll get through uh uh hang tight for a minute we We'll get through Von Fronten and Machiavelli had their hands up here, and then we'll bring you in.
As Imola mentioned, he sold it for 11.8. You can see there's only three listings right now. It goes from 9.75 E floor to 15.26 to 17 to 22 to 25 to 50. So I lied. There's six listings, but six of the 183 are listed.
You said a moment for digital art.
I agree.
And I haven't even expand on that.
And I'd like to get your thoughts on this.
And then we'll go around the horn here on the stage.
A lot of people will probably refer,
when did NFTs break out?
A lot of people will say 2021 had their breakout moment.
And I can't disagree with that.
I think digital art just had its breakout moment.
Well, we went mainstream.
Not in the crypto DGens, the people who are going to look at these as financial instruments and hyper-financialize them and speculate on the art and get excited because they think they can make
money on them. I think digital art really had its breakout moment at Art Basel 2025, and I don't
think it's ever going back from here. And this isn't about floor price. It's not just about
calling it digital art instead of an NFT either.
I don't know. I haven't put enough thought to how I can properly explain what I mean.
But this wasn't a breakout moment for NFTs. We all know that the non-fungible token
is what's selling on OpenSea or what's selling on chain,
is what's selling on OpenSea or what's selling on chain.
it's not just changing the verbiage from NFT to digital art.
I think art on chain just grew up, matured a little bit,
and we found real product market fit for digital art.
Thoughts on that, Emlo?
Or feel free to, like, any other high level,
like, you mentioned, like, we had a moment.
Like, what do you, and we're heading into this new era,
new meta.
What do you think is next?
What do you think this leads to?
I mean, I think, first off, the easiest, like, low-hanging fruit would be to use NFTs
as certificates of authenticity
for all these galleries to just start
bringing their
art on chain in certain ways and transacting on chain because of all the different benefits that
transacting on chain bring the the other thing though is that like you said experiential art
is going to be at the forefront of a lot of different, like, not just experiences,
but like just how art is presented in the future.
And I think like, not only did we just grow up, but like, this is, this just got our foot
in the door.
Now more can come through because they've opened up that space, if that makes sense.
Like, I think this is just the beginning in terms of what can...
This is just scratching the surface
in terms of what can happen.
This was dogs pooping in receipts,
but at the same time,
it got people's attention
and made enough noise
and all sold out
to a point where it was successful.
And in terms of Art Basel,
fares in general have been on a decline for the past five years so the fact that this art basel had the best showing and whatever because of
these cool experiences and because people actually showed up and made money at a fair as opposed to
showing up and spending 200 and leaving with nothing is just a crazy phenomenon.
People here have never heard of NFTs are now starting to look into digital art and starting
to understand what we're doing here.
And I don't know.
I think as we said on the last base, I think it went from hype to substance.
like hype to substance and obviously it needed some of this hype in order to bring some more
And obviously it needed some of this hype in order to bring some more substance.
substance but while people were there watching the people dog shit they were also looking around
at the other nft exhibits that were there too and talking to people and because we had a good
showing that was there every single day people ended up like staying and explaining to people
like i don't know i i must have had conversations with like
a hundred different traditional people that didn't really understand the art when they first saw it
and probably still didn't really understand it when they left but like the conversations i had
with them were very fascinating in terms of seeing what they see and looking at it through their eyes
and not just like the hype that we see on twitter i agree and i also think i'm gonna i'm gonna dance around a little
bit here but we will get all come all the way back to it in the second part of this conversation when
we we contrast it to some other things is the artist being there it wasn't just there that
people could talk to it's like to your point it's it yes, art is subjective, but being able to talk to the artist and understand the story, understand what they're doing, it's very powerful.
Crazy that we're going to talk about comms and communication and crypto and Web3, but for the most part, we've really sucked at that piece over the last three to five years.
Really, really bad.
And I feel a lot of teams, a lot of founders are just
not getting it. They keep beating their head against the wall or understanding why am I
getting FUD here? Because people want to hear the story. People want to know. People want to talk to
you. They don't just want to see you pop up and say, oh, I'm selling this new thing. Come buy it.
Why? Give us a reason to get emotionally attached to it. Give us a reason to want to buy it other than, oh, I could mint this thing. I might be able to sell it for more later or I'm going to mint this piece of art.
I don't think there's many people. Those aren't here already in your communities. I'm not singling anyone out. There will be a direct comparable here later or something. It's just it's a layup to contrast because it is a contrast like it or love it or hate it or or indifferent it's it's a real contrast some of the mints we've
seen on chain as opposed to the digital art moment in how these artists are having success
at art basil and in in beyond uh but let's do this. Let's, I want to get Vaughn front in here.
Who's who we lost.
He was very patient.
Then we,
we lost him and now he's connecting and I'm getting the spinny circle.
Despite his PFP.
I will,
we'll see if we can go to him in a sec,
but I'm still getting the spinnies on front.
And if you can,
if you're up and can hear me,
go ahead.
If not,
we will go to Machiavelli and then Joey and then Thomas.
Von Fronten, are you connected by
chance?
I think we're getting
spinnies. X is being
finicky once again. Surprise, surprise.
Maybe
we should blame the EU. Maybe we should blame Elon.
I don't really know, but
curveballs. We're going to
do one more take here. see if we can get...
Hey, we got him connected this time.
Von Fronten, GM.
I would say take it whichever direction you like.
Take it whichever direction you like, except for one in particular direction.
It's exactly the direction I'm going to take it, but I'll only give you 30 seconds.
Fair.
We talk about a lack of storytelling.
We talk about experiential art.
Let me tell you a story about some art that I experienced on Saturday evening when the Windiana Hoosiers toppled the Buckeyes of Ohio State to claim the Big Ten championship, the number one ranking in the college football playoffs, and the all but certain Heisman Dosa era loading in Bloomington, Indiana.
It was an amazing night.
It was an experience.
It made you feel something.
It had nothing to do with NFTs, but damn it, what a time to be alive.
Congratulations.
Well said.
Good story.
And, yeah, I'm still disappointed.
I got no shit-talking texts except for my brother-in-law or ex-brother-in-law
who sent me the big Hoosiers GM.
We had some little banter the following morning after I woke up.
But it was a – you got to hand it to Indiana.
They played an incredible game.
Ohio State seemingly went through the motions, didn't want to – I don't know.
It was an embarrassingly coached performance in my opinion.
Unless you want to take the angle.
Like I know there's some Buckeye fanboy. Oh, they did it on purpose. They didn't want to take the angle like i know there's some buckeye fanboy oh they did it
on purpose they didn't want to show anything they wanted to play tight maybe or ryan day just gets
tight in big games and i know he won last year i know but it's just and you got to replace the
kicker man like you got another kicker on the on on the squad who's better and this kicker is maybe
arguably one of the worst kickers of all time.
And as far as clutch kicks goes,
I don't know if he's made one big clutch kick
and he's missed every single one that I can remember.
Sorry, I'll end my rant, but get rid of the kicker.
You've got someone on the team who's sitting on the bench
that's better than him.
Now, immediately, the guy kicks in the playoffs.
And yeah, I don't know.
It was an embarrassing performance from Ohio State.
But you've got to give credit where credit's due.
Indiana played a great game and exactly how they should have.
So I hope in the finals it will be a fun rematch.
And if they do and we see a different Ohio State,
I guess you could put some merit in playing the game plan and how they did.
I thought Indiana was really going to regret
the first two field goals,
and it turns out they're exactly what they needed
because Ohio State was clenched up the entire game,
and it's also why I'm not a college football coach.
But anything to add to that, Von Fronten, or anything?
We'll go to Machiavelli and then Joey and then Thomas.
Oh, no, there's some ugly ball on both sides.
Our offensive line disappeared for most of the game, and Mendoza
was under a ton of pressure,
and we were only getting like three yards
of rushing. So it was a defense
standoff both ways, but
I'm hoping that our offensive line
remembers that they play American football between
now and the Rose Bowl, because
I would like to see Mendoza have
a little bit more time back there to
sling the ball before he gets running around.
I will bring it back to digital art and the actual topic at hand.
Thank you for letting me have my Victory Lab.
And I would have texted you and gone harder in the war room.
But see, I've got this friend that hosts this daily show where I can just come and talk live about it in front of everybody.
So why would I want to send a text in private where i have this stage available to me i i would be disappointed if you didn't come up and and take your victory
up this morning it's well deserved and um they were the better team they were the they played
the better football with an inferiorly talented team it is it is what it is look at their look
at the recruits it's it's i saw actually a post this morning that had basically all the five stars,
all the four stars, all the three stars,
and compared Ohio State's roster to Indiana's.
It's mind-blowing how far superior Ohio State's,
how much more talent Ohio State has.
And Indiana, I mean, other than tackling their defensive linemen
and not getting called holding,
Indiana really did dominate them in almost every aspect of the game. tackling their defensive linemen and not getting called holding,
Ohio State or Indiana really did dominate them in almost every aspect of the game.
I'm pretty sure Ohio State could put up numbers
against my battered Indianapolis Colts right now.
Those are grown-ass men on that side of the ball.
So I'm happy.
It's going to be a fun month leading up to the Rose Bowl.
We'll see where January goes. but it was a fun weekend. So back to the topic at hand. Thank you, everybody, for letting me have my tangent. I do agree. I know we've kind of talked about in the war room, right, like kind of Beeple being the kickoff from the 2021 NFT mania? Is he going to be the kickoff from this one?
I have no idea what I will say.
And again,
I credit Beeple.
I'm sure there are other artists that do this.
I'm not deep in the art game.
So forgive my lack of knowledge of other artists that are out there that are
maybe doing stuff that are similar.
We'd love to learn more about them.
So feel free to comment,
tag me.
We'd love to explore more artists out there.
But I think to your point of like,
what people did the first time,
it was what, 500 every day?
It's like, dude had been making NFTs
for 500 days up to that point, right?
It had been over a year of just like,
hey, here's some art.
Hey, here's some art.
Hey, here's some art.
And then it packaged together.
And then it was, to went to auction right and
then it was like oh hey like five thousand five thousand not five thousand oh damn shit okay i'm
way off uh like i said i don't follow the art that much um so again it was it was a lot right but dude
had been doing it for years and then finally it became a thing with nfts and was like oh hey we
can do something new with this technology right the nft side of this was part of it right but i mean you had a physical interactive
art display you had you know art political commentary say what you will he chose those
faces to put on those dogs for a reason he had ai built into this thing. He had, you know, then the digital component of it. He
then had the on-chain component of it. It was this really cool melding. And I wasn't there,
so I, you know, people who were there can speak to this much with much more
certainty of this, but like, it was just, it was a very cool, like, whether you liked it or not,
art's subjective, you don't have to like it. That's not the point,
but I appreciated it because it was a very cool melding of many different
mediums of art kind of put together in this very cohesive way.
And was there an on-chain component of it?
Yes.
what I,
what I hope it does.
And I think cap,
you like,
I'm guessing you're going to agree,
but if you don't feel free to disagree,
what I hope it does is that whether or not it kicks off any next bull run price go up, who knows, right?
I mean, I've got my own feelings on that.
But what I do hope it does is that it inspires a next wave of artists to start saying like, hey, I can start putting these building blocks together, right?
AI didn't exist in 2021, or at least not in the format that it does today, right? Like you can start putting these
different mediums together, do really cool shit with art. Maybe there's an on-chain component,
maybe there's not, but it's inspiring to me. I'm not an artist. I'm not going to do anything with
it, but it's inspiring to me. I hope that it inspires others to see that, wow, this is something
maybe I need to start pushing some boundaries above and beyond what I've been doing. Or that artist takes their
first step to say, hey, I had an idea. I thought it would be totally cringe. Seems like the people
like this kind of stuff. Let me go and make some art now. That's the part that gets me excited
about all this, whether or not it does anything for our market, whether or not any of my JPEGs
go up, down or sideways. I think it's just kind of cool to see creativity in this way and credit to people again
for kind of kicking it off in our little corner of the internet i agree and uh one other quick take
and then we'll get uh i think back of ellie's up next and thomas and joey we had i'm not i'm not
out the person they want to add it in the chat or jump on the
screen they can i'm just gonna i'm gonna quote on a serious note i find uh with most digital art
it's not the medium it's the feeling in supposed to be but but the brand not their story i might
be misreading that uh point getting to here combine that with thin liquidity and a lack
of market making,
and I have no interest in story money and inflationary product designers. I think we
see digital art houses understand what actually happens in art and not what they want to happen
in art. You end up with a lack of capital adoption. I think Art Basel will lead to
an explosion in digital art houses and or at least more capital flowing into digital art because of what von Fronten just described.
And what Imlo said earlier is Art Basel was going the other direction.
Artists were pulling out. Galleries are down.
traditional art was not having a moment and the buzz the talk around art basil from the ground
Traditional art was not having a moment.
was most the other artists at least the ones that i engaged in or heard with
they were absolutely paying attention to the digital art explosion and they knew it was like
it was a fomo moment for digital art for traditional artists for traditional art collectors
it again the biggest takeaway for me is it wasn't crypto degens
that were excited about the people exhibit in 0-1-10.
It was the traditional art collectors,
the traditional artists were talking about digital art
and viewing digital art and had an interest in digital art
that I have never seen before.
Even in following the $69 million people sale, people were still making fun of it.
Oh, that'll never last.
It's a scam.
That's some Ponzi.
The attitude towards digital art has, from my perspective, from my lib journey, has completely
flipped.
And it happened at Art Basel 2025.
I wasn't expecting that experience. I wasn't expecting to take that away from Art Basel 2025. I wasn't expecting that experience.
I wasn't expecting to take that away from Art Basel,
but I can't summarize it any other way
than the view from the outsiders,
artists, traditional artists, galleries,
traditional art houses, media.
It flipped.
It's not just people. People led led the charge but it really flipped towards i think
it's kind of like 2021 nfts pfp nfts kind of lightning in a bottle a lot of a lot of things
just lined up at the right time i think now we're seeing that again it's different very different
but we're seeing this convergence of ai which is like a lot of artists are freaking
out about AI. We're seeing the convergence of traditional art or galleries. They're not having
a moment. Art Basel was not having a moment. It is now on the back of this digital art explosion,
but it's not just digital art by itself. It's not just NFTs on chain by itself.
So it's this convergence of digital art, physical art, experiential art.
All that melt AI is a big piece of it.
It's all coming together in this in this convergence.
And I think, well, people still put acrylic paint on a canvas and sell that.
Yes, absolutely. It's not going away.
I just think if we're going to look
for what is going to be like the the next meta in art what is going to be what's capturing the
tension you couldn't convince me otherwise after seeing what i saw on the ground at art basil
that this convergence of digital and physical physical art with a you know sprinkling of ai
is not where the art world is heading or at least very much so looking at and taking a hard thought on right now.
And for the foreseeable future, I just,
I don't see it going in another direction.
Machiavelli go ahead and get in here and then we'll go to Joey.
And then Thomas, appreciate all your patience.
No worries. No worries.
Hello. Can you hear me?
I got you. It's a little, it's okay. It's a little cut out, but I think...
Joey, if we lose McAvely, I'm going to go refill a coffee.
So McAvely, take it as long as you like, then Joey, jump in here.
If we lose McAvely, Joey, go ahead.
Yeah, I think the best part about the people exhibit,
I don't know what people are paying attention to.
MLO might have been paying attention to this.
He had a Warhol dog.
He had a warhol dog he had like a picasso dog and these things were actually the the type of prints that
they were coming out was art that was shaped around those type of artists so like the would
produce a print that was like very warhol inspired through ai and the picasso one would do the same
and then the did also the same.
It was like this really
dope how interactive it truly was and
how different each one of the dogs was
and the kind of teaser
art that it was produced. I thought that that was one of the
most amazing parts about that exhibit.
That's really all I wanted to add.
I'm about to bust down. I'm going to head to Joey.
High five.
Thanks, Machiavelli. Emel, you got the bus down. I'm going to head to Joey. High five. Thanks, Machiavelli.
Emilio, you got the Basil vid?
Sounds like you got the Basil vid.
No, I'm just outside
and I just woke up.
I have a question.
I have a question.
seeing more of
Jack Butcher's
receipt art change your opinion of that or you still think
it was bullshit i mean it's i guess time will tell and but i i just i don't i still don't
understand the uh i don't know it it's not for me listen i'll i said it on friday i bought one
because everybody was like,
but what if he does do something? And I was like, whatever, it's 10 bucks.
So I bought $10 worth just to say I was here just in case. I still don't get it. To me,
it's a digital receipt or a physical receipt. I don't I don't see that as art
but again
art can take as you guys
are talking about art can take many different forms
right performative
etc etc so maybe
one day I'll get it but I still
don't really get it
I feel
I feel like I feel like
first off this is very this is very in tune with jack's
art in general so a lot of it is if you get it you get it and if you don't then like you will
one day probably or maybe not but like jack's not for everyone i'm not a big fan of jack jack's mechanics just me like i respect how he's obviously done well for himself
i i respect how he's done it's also art it is subjective part of it is get people talking about
part of it is you don't want to make just mild he's a master at marketing that that's what it
is and he showed you that he could sell you nothing as art and it's still art he sold you
the receipt and he gave you a bag.
He even gave you a bag for the receipt.
No, man, I missed out on the bag.
I didn't know that was a thing.
I'm now I'm filming this, this bag, but it's also polarizing.
I think a good art often is polarizing and like,
just like taking a banana to the wall and selling for millions of dollars is
polarizing.
Most people won't get it.
Most people is going to think it's dumb.
That's traditional art. That's art in general general like it's not every artist is not i don't i i could have an endless amount of funds infinity i don't know if i'd ever buy a
rothgo painting i just don't get it i i i'm not knocking it it's just not for me but it doesn't
mean that other people don't value and appreciate it so So it's like the one thing I did get and I bought, I minted one online.
I minted one in person.
It was a dollar.
I spent more like by comparison, I bought a little slider appetizer in the collector lounge that was $27.
It was probably like $2.70 worth of food.
It was good, but it wasn't worth $27 that I, it was probably like $2 and 70 cents worth of food. It was good, but it wasn't worth $27.
I paid $2.
I went out on the show floor and minted a piece of art for a dollar to support
an artist who's there hustling.
And what, what I, what I appreciated the most is that out of everything
Jack could have done for his Art Basel debut debut he chose to flip art basel on its head and
show exactly how much they were paying for their booth which by the way was 50 off of what everyone
else was paying which is why they even had room for them so they paid 70k for their booth whereas
most booths paid like 150k then he showed how much it costs to actually set up a stand and all that other stuff, labor,
et cetera. And he showed people how much it actually costs to break even. And then he crowdfunded it.
Yeah. I, um, the receipt itself, I don't think is the art in my, this is my opinion,
my personal opinion. The art wasn't the receipt. The art is the exhibit. The art is the art. This is my opinion. My personal opinion, the art wasn't the receipt.
The art is the exhibit.
The art is the transparency.
A lot of people probably have no idea how much it costs to have an Art Basel booth.
The interaction, I think there's a lot there.
Now, if these were, I don't know, if each of these receipts cost one Solana, I'm out.
I have zero interest in that. But for a dollar, I'll't know, if each of the receipt costs one Solana, I'm out. I have zero interest
in that. But for a dollar, I'll throw a buck at something. I don't know the last time I bought
anything in a retail store and they spin around the lap of the iPad. I don't tip at least a dollar.
So for me, my dollar purchase of a receipt was my way to tip Jack and Jahil. Jahil, Jahil, how do you say his name? Jaleel.
Jaleel.
My $2 was probably, I wouldn't even say this out loud.
It's embarrassing that I only tip Jaleel and Jack a dollar each
because I tipped my barista more than that this morning
for a freaking cup of coffee.
It wasn't Art.
They didn't hustle.
They weren't working at Art Basel booth
and grinding their face off for 11 hours a day for an entire week, plus all the prep work that went into it.
Like, I think there's sometimes, like, effort matters.
And, yeah, you could have got the thing for it.
Now, and I saw Joe jumped up.
I do want to get Joe's take on this.
Joe, if you've got a heart out, give me a wave.
me a wave otherwise i thomas has been super patient we'll get him in here next um but i
Otherwise, Thomas has been super patient.
We'll get him in here next.
actually never got to to to ask my question because emlo asked me about jack butcher
joey thomas super question hold on one there is the other side of it joey you're not alone
uh this is this is a tweet from 6529 uh says says, oh, no, big NFT tricked Art Basel visitor to buying conceptual art NFT.
Oh, no, was it a 200K he was going to use for his down payment sales?
Even worse, he could have bought $37 of croissants with this.
This is an actual review, someone, or an article that they reference.
The terminals that beckon visitors to tap their cards and pay any amount, receiving a printed receipt whose length is proportional to their payment and comes with an NFT companion.
A ticker above the counter tracks the lucre from an initial value of negative 75,000.
Butchers stated investment in the piece.
When I informed a man who forked over $37 for a rather short receipt that he could have bought several pasties
at a nearby cafe with that money.
He looked at me like I was the ignorant one.
Like I was the one who missed the point.
I have purchased an original artwork.
He told me,
go ahead,
Joey.
That's funny.
what pasta Litos or pasties?
I don't know.
Cause that sounds like he meant to say like,
he was saying
pastelitos, like the delicious
bakery treats.
I got to go here since you're on the stage.
Blame Joe, everyone, if you don't want to hear this.
I had
some incredible
Venezuelan food this weekend
beyond my
tostones
that I'm a big fan of.
I had how do you pronounce the breakfast?
Like a donut that's made with the flour and some plantains and cheese on them.
Mac, what's the word?
I'm drawing a blank now.
I knew it, but I'm drawing a blank.
Mendoka.
Mendoka, yes. Go ahead. Sorry. I digress.
Yeah. No. So I came up because I want to just ask a quick question. So this, you know,
you guys are all talking about Beeple and Jack Butcher and this digital art and et cetera, et cetera.
My question to you guys is what needs to happen for the next three, six, 12 months that this doesn't just become
like a fleeting moment. Like it's all great. It's all fine and great now. Like people won
these people NFTs, they're selling them for $30,000 and right. Like we're saying digital
art had this moment. How does this continue?
Because there's not another Basel next month, right?
So like, what needs to happen?
Great question.
I don't know all the answers, but you're right. There needs to be some sort of continuation on.
My take, and I'm curious to hear everyone else,
we'll go Thomas and then Joe,
and then we also have Creatress Art joined us as
well. My take is other digital artists should lean into this moment, and what can they do
to combine the physical, digital, experiential world of art and lean into this. I also think it does matter, lower supply, lower cost, let people collect,
experience the thing without having to fork over, forget tens of thousands of dollars.
I don't think we're in a market. A lot of people, especially people that aren't here,
want to be paying hundreds of dollars even for digital art. like that's a big ask like the unless to the earlier point these digital
art houses and and we start seeing a wave of trad fight or trad art collectors and in our houses
coming into this space to have to increase the net new buyers i just i don't it's not going to
happen immediately it's going to take some time.
And I think it's really leaning into this stuff and realizing things have changed. Digital art,
I think is having a moment, can have a moment, but it's not the same moment that was 2021.
It's not minting 10,000 or 25,000 pieces of art and just throwing them on chain and say,
oh, collect the art if you want to collect the art some some artists may have success in that and sell it most
will not most won't win out most most will go to zero it's people aren't looking to collect
receipts on blockchain yes pun intended uh and yeah art basil doesn't happen every month
but there is multiple year there is art Art Basel in March in Hong Kong.
The OG one in Basel is in Switzerland in June.
I may actually go to that one now due to my friend that's running the show.
They also have Art Basel Paris, which I heard is a great one if you like more of the, I don't know how to say this,
like bougie art,
more traditional art,
more luxury,
classical,
classic art,
I guess.
And then obviously Miami beach.
They also have the new one that is happening in Dubai,
which my friend,
it's her project.
I think this one's Qatar.
It is Qatar.
You're right.
Excuse me.
It is Qatar,
but that's going to be a brand new one.
So there'll be five next year
Which, yes, is not every month
Thanks for that ad, Joe
Let's get
I think he's one of the first people up on stage
Thomas, GM, welcome to stage, first time caller
Maybe first time listener, welcome
What brought you up this morning?
Ooh, I can't hear Thomas, just me?
I can't hear Thomas. Just me? I can't hear him either.
Thomas, I see you're off mute, but I'm not getting any audio on your end.
I don't...
I can't hear either.
Yeah.
Thomas, if you can hear us in the audience, take a quick lap, leave the space,
force close X and come back. It's just X has been a little finicky. Joe, go ahead and take it. GM, sir, appreciate you jumping up. the ability to exit your position if you're a traditional art buyer because the reason you're
buying a piece of art isn't because you like it it's to store capital in it and like that's
something nobody likes to admit but doing what i do uh and talking to who i talk to, they're very leery of sticking their money into things that are still so extremely speculative that everybody looks at it here and they go resales, resales, or look at what's happening on the secondary.
in 10 years when you're playing cross-border arbitrage
and you need to exit your position
and you need to make sure that there's that capital there.
So until you have consistent type of way
to exit these positions,
you're going to be limited in the amount
and type of capital that you can bring into it.
And that's how come I always giggle
when people are like, oh, I'm going to, you know, fucking damn, right? The digital art movement.
I'm going to go get it adopted by Bowers, right? I mean, like, I literally have a membership to
Bowers. Like, that's not what they're going to show you. And so you need to have this adoption of a traditional type of a buyer because why they're buying that, they'll go out and they'll use their connections to get it wherever they need to get it, not because they want it to be seen, but because it makes economical sense to them to market make those assets, but also because the museums kick back to them an exhibition fee,
which then offsets their security premiums on insurance, et cetera, spend.
So that's how it works.
It's not pretty, but that's how it works.
I agree.
It makes sense to me.
Would you agree that we might be starting to see the beginnings of that with now that Beeple has some years of history, his original pieces, there is liquidity there, and he's proven he's not some fly-by-night or flash-in-the-piece type artist that he's actually there?
Or like the six-five-two-nines of the world.
like the six five two nines of the world, the,
and I know that that's not the kind of market makers you're,
you're necessarily referencing, but do you could,
is there a path to where like this last week leads to more trad art market
makers starting to collect digital art of select artists where supply is low
because they, they can now see that.
I think what you have to understand is what happened with people right because right now
we're still buying brands not stories so you had a bunch of vcs that had pumped capital in 2019 2020
crypto or you know web3 stuff and they weren't getting adoption right so they found people
and people the sale was an arranged sale now people still controls 5 000 every days um he's
been working with the buyer to do something with that. And they've been trying to figure out what to do with that.
But the only way that that investment becomes viable is if he continues to have things out in the market that at least titillate and drive some sort of attention.
and drive some sort of attention because what they're hoping is that there's you know there's
not going to be another 10k nft boom and none of them are doing tokens so this is the next thing to
try to do something so i mean he's a brand but he's one of the few brands but you don't want to
buy a brand when you're storing capital because then
you're entirely dependent on the thing that's attractive about buying a
Picasso for $60 million over a people is Picasso's offended.
Everybody he's going to offend.
He's dead now.
Right.
When you put $60 million into somebody who's alive and then maybe something
happens,
now I'm at $60 million.
Punk thesis,
right?
Yeah.
Where,
where they're not doing it.
It's just,
it's,
it is what it is.
There's not a,
there's no,
there's no executional risk anymore.
Yep.
And you have market makers,
right?
Like,
PunxOTC is, I i mean maybe not the same realm
market maker but it this exists like what you're describing doesn't in the pump collection right
yeah now the problem with punks is that you still have you know 400 of them with yuga um
you don't like to see a ton of you know if you're if you're talking about traditional art right
like is there an
log is there is there anything in traditional art where there's a let's just say not even 10,000
but thousands of pieces of a traditional artist where one collector holds say four percent of
four or five percent of the collection does that exist is there even a comparable i mean yeah you
could say that the vatican owns most of the rafael's
but that's the vatican they're never going to sell those you know and and and and uh
but the the the favorite painter of the vatican has always been rafael and so really if you can
get your hands on a rafael you know you have somebody you can dump it into.
Like it's not the attractive way,
but like that's, it's literally true.
If you can verify it's a Raphael,
the Vatican will buy it from you.
I learned something new today.
Appreciate you as always.
And yeah, I'll let you go back to doing your show.
You guys have any questions about.
Questions for you.
You got a lot of fans in the chat. Teach Katie over in Abst abstract says oh joe's on stage always love to hear what he has
to say um i do as well talk later buddy thanks have a good one do as well thomas let's do a quick
check see if we got it uh working this time i did get an update from blue panther says there's an
android app has a new update like the base app switch to the base one and the new one is snappy fast but still with less functions which i did so gmgm uh gm from poland so i hope that you hear me right now
loud and clear thanks for uh thanks for about laughing thanks god what morning thomas yeah so
probably i'm one of the few people in poland who who is promoting digital art for many years.
This year I wasn't in Miami during Art Basel.
I regret it because I've seen these movies from people and other my favorite artists like Rafika Nadol.
So I think that the next step which can happen to promote digital arts in a wider perspective is for example
opening of data and museum in los angeles which will be provided by refi canado in first quarter
of 26 so i hope that it will bring some attention to digital arts. And what can I add? We have to do our job. in the digital art field in Poland,
because I've started a company which was promoting digital art and selling,
but in Poland it was very difficult.
Right now we've got some difficulties in bringing new crypto law in the European Union.
It's Mika Law, and we are trying to do such roles in European Union. It's Mika law and we are trying to
do such rules in Poland
too. So right now there is a huge
discussion about crypto here.
So right now, even
if I could and would to
mint some collections, I can't because
I have to wait for
new law. So
these are
such difficulties here in the European Union.
And I wanted to point it because it's quite important to this area.
Well, we appreciate the work and the effort to push the digital art space forward.
Welcome.
Welcome to Coffee.
We run this back every Monday through Friday at 8 a.m. Eastern time
and talking all things digital art, crypto, NFTs, mostly tech, sometimes an occasional meme coin, but mostly mostly the the little more.
We skew slightly. I don't know. I don't want to take shots on anyone on the stage with me, but slightly older in the age demographic as far as on chain uh art and crypto
is concerned uh jamber appreciate you as always gm welcome to the stage we'll go to creatress next
jamber gm take it any direction you'd like yeah yeah gmgm yeah so um miami miami just hits different
one uh two uh the uh the receipts so what i thought was interesting was uh you know the the seed
phrase is on the receipt so yeah so like it's bringing others who may not even know you know
how this works yep which which is cool you know i thought that was really really cool idea so all
right that's cool um and then people people was just there was so many people asking questions
i was i was there um a couple times um this weekend and there were so many people just asking
questions on like who is people like they had no idea they had no idea who he was so i think that's going to really um
i think this weekend's really going to uh open the eyes of of many who hadn't still have no idea
maybe even what what is going on why are we here you know i think it's i think it's great i think
it's a good thing and um i think it's be a movement, you know, a movement forward.
Yeah, I agree.
Any takes or ideas on what could push that movement forward?
To the earlier point, we might have four or five art vows a year.
Beeple's probably not going to be at every one.
Any thoughts or takes how an artist listening in, whether they've already created some digital art or not,
how might they take this momentum and move it forward in the interim,
between now and next ArtVals?
Any thoughts or ideas?
I mean, I guess they're going to have to push it to the media.
I mean, we're a small space.
I mean, we're large, broad among the world, but truly, it's still small.
And I think the artists that have the attention need to get out to the media.
As much as media can spin it whatever way they want. It just needs more attention to,
to the,
the people who don't know,
you know?
Yeah.
I think awareness is big.
I think it's going to be,
in my opinion,
a collective effort.
One artist,
not even people.
Not true.
Or X,
or X copy or Jack or anyone else.
I think it's a collective effort and why i'm so passionate about
at least pay attention to what's happening i'm not saying maybe it doesn't say maybe it's a
fleeting moment we never talk about this again i don't think that'll be the case
but it clearly i don't think you can put the toothpaste back in the tube i agree and it
worked it clearly captured attention on that though on that though like, not just them, not just Beeple and Xcopy and Jack.
We, us, who's here, need to get more collabs together.
I think it's coming.
Other side is bringing communities together.
But we're all here.
I mean, we all kind of have the same common interests.
I think that's a big thing.
I agree.
Two quick thoughts from the chat, and then we're going to go creators.
We're going to keep fishing in here.
We're bringing all the coffee with Captain OGs today, and then we'll go back to Joey.
One comment from Oxy in the war room that I couldn't agree more, but it's also it is what it is.
And I hope you don't mind me quoting this.
He says, it's funny how we're dependent on things happening consistently to hold up value.
The brain rot, quote unquote, brain rot culture that is integrated into digital art is so funny to me.
I agree.
I also can't imagine how frustrating that might be for artists, digital and non-digital artists.
It's also the world we're living in. It's like adapt or die. I'm not trying to be
like cold or, or I'm not even pushing back on it. It's just, I agree with you. It is, it is
kind of funny how we're talking art and things that as Warp Joe was just talking about,
traditional art collectors, uh, look in decades, not months
or let alone days or hours or, or, or weeks.
And I just think our society, this is not the start of digital art.
Like new digital arts been called new media.
They they've sold it as like, I mean, in the past you can either do things like print
digital pieces, or you can give the files over with a display or whatever.
NFTs just make it easier to transact and more transparent.
The reason why traditional art doesn't usually love NFTs is because it makes things transparent.
And in the traditional art market, some things are a little bit shady.
Ooh.
I don't know if you can get back up and answer that one i would really genuinely love your take on the reason some traditional artists and maybe collectors don't
like nfts or digital art or blockchain technology is because of the transparency that it brings into
the space and i actually think that was my takeaway from jack Butcher. I didn't, that was better said than I could have in low. I think part of Jack's exhibition, part of Jack's art was doing
exactly that was showing, Oh, you want to be an artist? You want to exhibit an art battle? It's
going to cost you 70 bands. It's a lot of money. Like most people don't realize that. And then
the other lack of transparency, I think, is something in the collector side.
Like Joe mentioned, I was under the impression that the $69 million people was a predetermined transaction.
That was my take. I didn't know that for a fact, but I believe, well, this didn't just happen.
That was the known outcome before it ever went to auction, was my understanding.
That was the known outcome before it ever went to auction was my understanding.
Just like I think the banana being taped to the wall was probably a known outcome before it ever went to auction.
There's a lot of backroom deals is my understanding.
I'm not a traditional art collector.
I've never ran a gallery.
This is just my perception as an ignorant outsider.
But my perception is traditional art does lack a lot of transparency with intent.
That's part of the – I almost said Ponzi.
It's not a Ponzi.
That's part of the game is some of these things are – there's levers that are pulled without everyone knowing the handshake deals that take place behind the scenes.
Creatress, I know you've been super patient.
I do want to get Joe in here to respond to this.
You're invoking back up on stage and i promise you're
you're on no i'll wait go ahead it's cool let's let's keep that's i i invoked you curious your
thoughts on the specifically is there been this pushback from traditional artists and art houses
and collectors going on chain due to the transparency it exposes any merit in that i mean so mike and i have talked
about this but um i don't think that that's the reason okay i first of all you can obfuscate
anything on chain i think that transparency on chain is misunderstood. Some of the most
obfuscated transactions happen in front of our face on Solana. I think when you, okay,
if you're thinking what you're seeing on Etherscan is what's happening on chain,
you're not understanding what Etherscan is as a product. Etherscan is made by BlockScan
like all scan products are. If you're not using BlockScan because your chain can't afford it,
it costs a million dollars a year for your SaaS, then you're going to be using BlockScout or one
of the other cheaper explorers. We all know those chains. We stay away from them. So BlockGAN is a defining company. They just simply take
things that they see happening and they assign a default value to them. So that means that one
through 10, you know, and this is like to simplify it, they may take 10 things and define those as
a mint. They may take 10 things and define those as a transfer. They may take 25 things and define it as something else. That doesn't mean that's what's actually happening.
Unless you're holding the validator and then you're going line by line through the contracts
and the codes and you're building in your own customized definitions, you're not actually
seeing what happens on chain. You're seeing what block scan has defined as what's happening on chain. And it is extremely easy to obfuscate transactions and data on chain. We do it all the time.
Many like your average traditional artist understands that, though.
I don't think they do, but if they're working with somebody who's trying to get that money, they should.
they do but if they're working with somebody who's trying to get them money they should
and it's joe joe what i was referring to here was also with regards to art how art fairs work and
with regards to art fairs being like not as transparent to those that are not as seasoned
as others which is why jack's talking in the context of jack butcher's exhibition which
literally just showed the price and the art was the receipt.
Just talking in that context.
Yeah.
So in the transparency of where the money's going, say, at the level to the artist or whatever, who gets the break to the, you know, who's taking a rip off the top from the gallery?
Who's doing this?
Who's doing that. But like, what people have to understand is that like, traditional artists are paying the
gallery to do the job they don't want to have to do. And that's like maintaining your customer base.
And like, the gallery, if they're good at what they do, and look, I don't like galleries,
we built our entire system to try to move them to the side and make them less prominent in the system.
But like you need to bring capital to the work and you need to build bridges between the art, where it's stored, and who has the money and who's insuring it.
and who has the money and who's insuring it and like what crypto allows you to do is to do even
more obfuscation with capital than traditional because if i'm buying something for a million
dollars i still have to go use traditional banking unless i'm using crypto and the traditional banking
is going to send that money and i'm going to file a FINRA with, you know, the bank's going
to file FINRA on me and all these things are going to happen. And traditional money doesn't like that,
right? So like, how do you help them stay off the radar? Because what hard money is trying to do
with art specifically is literally play jurisdictional arbitrage. And what that means is
how can I pick the best locations to experience a tax event? Or how can I pick the best locations
to hide my capital? And that's what art lets you do. Now, the more transparent you are with that,
the less attractive it is because nobody who's trying to change their
rubles into dollars or euros via a painting wants that to be seen. Does that make sense or no?
Yeah, 100%. So that's, you have to, you have to understand that large capital, right? Okay. So
like, why is Qatar trying to buy Renaissance era paintings, right?
It's not because they suddenly are interested in the Renaissance.
It's because they're trying to move to the next level of bringing people into their country.
So they're not just a gas station.
They did it once with World Cup, but that's a once in a lifetime event.
once-in-a-lifetime event. They're not going to get that anymore. So now they're trying to add a
They're not going to get that anymore.
wing to their museum that appeals to Western art. Well, Western art still leans towards,
oh, I'll travel anywhere to see a Renaissance painting. So they're in the market for a Da Vinci.
They're in the market for a bunch of Raphaels because they know Catholics will travel anywhere
in the world to see a Raphael because it is the favorite painter of the Vatican and you can't see anything in the Vatican's collections.
So, like, everybody's working a different angle.
But the people who are buying art to store their capital in it don't want their capital seen by the very forces that are trying to see that capital, which is why they're choosing to buy it with art.
Because I can roll it up in a tube and I can get onto a plane and I can fly it across a border or I can put it onto a boat or I can drive it in a car.
And I've just changed money faster than I can with gold.
And the only place I can also do that is in crypto, but I still have to off ramp that in crypto, which is a different complication.
Not so much so with art.
Anyways.
Yeah, great take.
Really appreciate the conversation.
Enjoying it very much.
I'm feeling smarter.
Oh, can I just say my punk thing that I didn't say really quick?
Please.
Short term, V2s.
Long term, V1s.
Because I think right now people still buy V2s because of who's associated with them.
I have a V1.
I have a V1.
I agree with you.
Yeah, because I think right now people still buy V2s because of who's associated with V2s.
I think in 20 years, you want the story, and the story is the screwed-up contract.
I agree.
I have had my eyes on V1s. I will buy a v1 before i buy a v2 not just because they're they're less expensive i'm not trying to insult
adam because he has a nice punk but i just think the v1's still to play adam probably has a uh
a handful of v1s too i'm guessing but probably um but anyways i'll shut up now let's go let's
we're gonna bring creatures in here and then add them next.
I will say this. Quick PSA.
I don't have any ETH in a hot wallet or at least not .2 right now.
Oh, I will say this.
Hopefully someone in the worm already hit it.
But the FWALG's just revealed.
Getting some mixed reviews.
I will say this.
There's a one-on-one that was, it may have sold already, but it was listed basically right at the floor just above it.
So if you're in the NFT flipping game or a FWOG fan, you might be able to go pick.
There's 55 one-of-ones in the collection.
The rest look pretty common-ish.
Like the traits, the layering, the traits are, there's not like really many rare traits.
They're all pretty equal. Like there's like the same amount basically of the different, you know, like backgrounds or skin, like the skin, each, every, the light green, orange, OG, dark green, blue, they all have basically 1100, give or take.
give or take.
There's not a lot of quote-unquote rarity
baked into the collection.
The backgrounds are all 915, 919.
So there's not much rarity
other than the one-of-ones.
I think if the collection holds and has success,
I think it's probably the one-of-ones
that are the grails.
And you might be able to find some
that are just at floor right now.
So good luck.
That's my freebie for the day. Creatress, appreciate your patience.
Thanks so much for joining us today. I think first time on stage, welcome.
And what brought you up this morning?
GM GM. Yeah, no worries. I've been enjoying the conversation. Um, yeah,
so I'm actually, I'm speaking from the point of view of an artist.
I've been in the space for, uh, quite some time, especially in web three.
Um, I'm actually a performance artist.
I started in 2021, and I've done over 30 Web3 events where I go and do live art performances.
So I'm uniquely interested in this, the Jack Butcher and the Beeple artworks that they showed.
I really, I wanted to mention that I think of this as performance art.
So I'm really embracing it. And I love what they did. And I think, you know, pretty much all
artists are now thinking, or maybe not all, but you know, anyone who's paying attention
and cares about this stuff and is an artist is wondering, how do I, what do, what can I bring,
right? And while I think that's, that's a worthwhile question, I think it's important to
remember that both Jack and Beeple have been doing some sort of, or some version of this
performance art for some time, not just in Web3, but even before um but to my experience with uh with the people
um concept i actually went to a couple of his um events at his people studios and he's been doing
the airdrops he's been doing this mechanic where he creates this artwork and then live at this very specific event,
you can collect one of these for free.
You can just get lucky, right?
At the studio, they literally drop from printers in the ceiling.
And so this is basically that, but now it's the dogs pooping it out.
And when I went to his studio, he had the dogs walking around.
He had Elon Musk walking one of the dogs with a leash, okay?
One of the dogs had a leash on and a Trump face mask, okay?
So, and not just that, he had actors wearing masks like Picasso, like Andy Warhol, a few
other artists, and they were going around taking pictures, Polaroid pictures of people at the party, right?
And basically giving you a portrait from like their point of view.
And that's essentially what he did with the dogs.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is iterate and reiterate until things, you are have enough um value or perceived value
that someone is willing to back you to get a booth at basel to do you know like like jack
butcher he's done a lot of interesting kind of performance type um projects and now he was able
to do this but it wasn't he didn't just get the funding to go into basel like on the first round
so i guess what i'm saying is if you're thinking hey how can i do that just start iterating
and gain the trust so that you can go big and do something like this great take i love it um i one
of my core memories as far as any of these conferences web3 digital art crypto conferences was at believe it or not a moon or a moonbird slash
proof event at nftnyc 2022 maybe 2023 i don't remember the year but it was a proof event where
it was a people every day is or live i'm gonna look at the back of my yeah people live every
day i have the i have a sticker on the back of my macbook from a people live every day. I have the sticker on the back of my MacBook from a people live every day. And to your exact point, there was people there in attendance. There wasn't the I don't think there was anything dropped from the ceiling at that one. I think this was any Moonbird holders were allegedly randomly selected to receive one of the copies of the live that he did the live every day on site. And it was an addition.
one of the copies of the live that he did the live every day on site.
And it was an addition,
but in,
and same thing,
he had the mass there that people were just walking around the room,
wearing these masks.
And he's iterated and iterated and iterated to get to where he is today.
But this,
what we saw at our art Basel was a three,
four,
five year evolution of,
of him experimenting and iterating and didn't just come to be overnight
i also understand not everyone can just give away their art right he's maybe he's in a different
spot as a as an artist but i do think there is something to be said for distribution mechanics
etc and we will circle back to that if anyone was wondering the earlier title i will hit on it a bit
but great just appreciate you coming up great take uh welcome to the coffee with captain stage we're gonna go from a first-time caller to an uh an og
adam gm sir what brought you up this morning to defend your your punk v2 or something else
uh no i i do uh love hearing from warp joe always his insights uh totally different world than the one I operate in.
He may be right, but I don't own any V1s, incidentally.
But I also don't plan to hold my punk in 20 years.
So V1s end up being more valuable than good luck to them.
I suspect I will have sold long before then.
But no, I really enjoyed the conversation enjoying the the recap of art basil glad you enjoyed it and uh seems to have uh energized you which is always uh great especially
when uh the market's kind of slow and and um not too exciting um it was great seeing you know from
afar seeing all of the the coverage the excitement around people's exhibit.
I mean, there's no question that he has a special ability to make people think, you know, elicit an emotional response, which is, as others have said, like that's really what art is supposed to do.
response, which is, as others have said, like, that's really what art is supposed to do.
One thing that I love about this exhibit and the way it was tied into the digital was that
I think it undermines some of the anti-NFT argument, this idea of an anti-digital art
in general, this idea of like, well, you're just like clicking a mouse and doing whatever,
like, oh, you know, with the PFPs, there was the argument of like well you know you just put these traits into a randomized
generator and it takes 10 minutes and then you sell 10 000 of it like no one is going to argue
that this exhibit and the time and effort that went into it like no one's going to argue that
this was at all lazy that it was at all, you know, cheaply done or cutting corners.
Like this was, you can think whatever you want about the art
or the NFT element or whatever, but like this was as effortful
and as, you know, I don't know what other word I would use,
but like real effort, real work went into this
to make people feel something. And, you know, I think this, but like real effort, real work went into this, um, to make people feel
something. And, you know, I think this, I don't know what it'll do for NFTs or digital art broadly,
but I think I would hope, or it's deserved that like, it would do a lot to legitimize
people as a quote unquote, real artist. Like this, this guy is an artist, he does real work. And, you know, so that's great.
I think last thing is just in terms of kind of, you know, you were asking what, what will build
on this momentum to Joe's point about, you know, the kind of big digital, big art investors are
not investing in digital art at this point, it's too speculative i think the speculation piece
is honestly what's going to drive it like it's i'm sorry to say it and you know i i don't love it
but to me like to me the best thing that could come out of it of this specifically for the digital
art market broadly is we get three four five human interest stories in the media of like, you
know, this random 80 year old who lives in, in the area and wandered into Basel and got
handed an NFT and sold it for 30 grand.
And like, now they can afford a new apartment or, you know, this young family who had a
two year old that got handed one of these
and redeemed it and sold it for 10 east and it's going into their kid's college fund like this is
the kind of stuff that will draw attention beyond just oh hey this looks weird or whatever
it'd be nice if it was at a point that it wasn't just driven by,
like we always say, of like floor price and whatever. But I just don't think it's there.
I think if we want attention and dollars flowing into this space, at least at this stage of
maturity for digital art, it's going to be the speculation piece that drives it.
art um it's going to be the speculation piece that drives it i agree although i will counter
or at least give an alternate perspective that yes however or yes and every piece of mainstream
media i've seen so far hasn't mentioned that these things are selling for thirty thousand dollars
like yeah i agree with you that will absolutely drive momentum. And I think that is,
we want to see like new entrants, like, yeah, speculation matters. Money matters in art.
They haven't even covered the resale yet. It's been too slow. I was the highest sale so far.
And like the mentions are only talking about primary sales so far. They're talking about
people selling the robot dogs for a hundred K. They're not talking about primary sales so far they're talking about people selling the robot dogs for 100k they're not talking about the attendees selling their their pieces for 30k
that they got for free which is going to be another like source of news if that makes sense
that's sort of where i was going with that's exactly it it's like it's great that they
haven't talked about that angle yet but to me to keep attention or like to keep people look at going down the
rabbit hole and thinking about it,
it's going to be like two or three weeks from now when this is faded from the
news,
that that's kind of that next round of stories of like,
and look at these wonderful people and like,
look at what they were able to do because of this.
And that kind of is a renewed interest.
Um, I agreed agreed I also I didn't realize he did he really sell
the robot dogs for 100k each
yeah but he pre-sold all
of them before it was sold out before Basel
even started brilliant man
I I know
he's in the market for 100k robot dog
I'm in the market for a robot but not even 100k
robot especially one that all it can do is poop nfts um but you don't want kim jong-un running around your house
and pooping nfts i don't know i mean it'd be cool it'd be a great party trick but i i need a lot
more uh liquid network before i even consider dropping 100k on a utility, a non-utility robot,
or any robot for that matter. But I have some of the headlines pulled up here from CNN to
Art News to Decrypt to Fox Business, the art newspaper, Page Six, The Verge, Popular Science,
Design Boom. And maybe the articles mention the sales prices, but the headlines don't. And most of it is just about
the celebrities, the robot
dogs, pooping NFTs, people
have new NFT crap.
They're
I guess I agree
with everything that's being said. Yes, the speculation,
the money matters.
I think it's also, I think
positive thing that that's not the lead. That's not the
leading headline that all
these dogs sold for 100k or you know imlo went to art basil and got one of these nfts and sold it for
35 000 that's awesome i think it matters very much i think the reason this is just my opinion
speculation i think part of the reasons not being talked about
as the lead item is because he didn't sell the nfts for tens of thousands of dollars he gave
them away for free it has to do with how news site not how news cycles work but like the speed at
which the more traditional news cycles are working and because of who claimed them the the more interesting stories
are not that nft dgens claimed something it's that the kids are that like because he was specifically
giving it to kids with families and and whatever etc like or older people that like normally
wouldn't collect nfts those were the people that they were prioritizing over like nft
djs yes yes but but the only the first sale only happened let's say saturday right now is monday so
they haven't had even time to write an article about it because it hasn't even been that long
i'm telling you by the end of the week that'll be the next thing that they'll be discussing because it's, it's, it's very different than any other art event that you go to.
You don't go to an art Basel event where you're looking to spend a hundred
thousand dollars as a traditional art collector and you end up walking away
with $30,000.
That doesn't happen.
You don't go to a thing and win the lottery.
Yeah.
I don't think there was a single person at the non-digital art that wasn't at 010 that walked into an exhibit and left with
a five-figure piece of art i just maybe i'm wrong maybe artists and other you know they
were just giving away their art they had it hung on their wall there was some really cool art too
by the way i posted one that captured my eye it It was just like, it was a huge art piece.
I don't, I didn't, I should have actually,
I feel bad.
I actually feel guilty because I did not get the.
Just do reverse Google search.
I'm sure you'll be able to find it.
You probably know.
Cause all the, all the Art Basel pieces are,
are online so, so much because of the news this week.
If it's a big piece it's probably i'm
sure with the massive piece i'm going to show it on the screen here in a second if you're looking
at video you'll probably know right away who it was it was just really i mean it's i guess
abstract it's just lines but it was so massive and it just the way it was done it was i think
it was a good for an exhibit a booth that was a basically an L or two sides of a square.
And you can tell I'm a real savvy art commentator here by me trying to explain this piece of
art.
I've got it put up on screen here.
Again, no idea who the artist was.
I don't even have two walls I think would even fit on at my current moment. was just, there was some cool art. I thought this was a cool piece of art. And yeah, but I doubt anyone walked away with this thing, you know, toting this to their car saying, oh yeah, I just, I just got a five figure piece of art that wasn't digital.
wasn't digital um yes if anyone knows no but my point is that that they're not walking away with
it for free they're spending yes in for jack you could buy something for a dollar like you could
buy you could walk away with a piece of art by a real artist for a dollar and 50 cents like that's
that's what's mind-boggling you could get a piece from x copy for free one of the highest selling artists like
that's living currently yes he's anonymous but he's still a living artist like these are things
that don't happen in the traditional world traditionally and whereas most people showed
up to spend money our artists not only gave away things for free but people also made money
had you scanned the open c code for the maria nft
that's another 30 had you just weaved it on the spot like how do you like weaved just things that
you got there for just being there you would have made money just as a regular attendee not even
getting lucky and that's very different than anything else and that will drive more attention and more like more attendees in the future.
I agree. I agree. Um, I saw hands up and now I don't see them anymore, but let's, I think it
was creatress and then jamber creatures. If you still want to get into this conversation, feel
free. I do have one other topic for the earlier title. I will hit on, uh, but I want to make
sure we get everyone's thoughts on, uh, on the event last week and this digital art explosion or new, you know, breathing new life into digital art.
Creatress, did you want to get back in on this conversation?
Yeah, thank you.
Well, just on the point that we're talking about right now about, like, the news cycle, right?
And then someone was talking about how Jack and Beeple are,
I mean, they're also in a very unique position, I want to say, to be giving out things for free,
or like at very low entry. And that is because of their success that they've already had, right?
Beeple had a $69 million sale. He doesn't have to worry so much about
people buying $1,000 artworks at a fair. And I think that's amazing. That's a power in itself
because he was able to do all these free airdrops. We rave about them. I mean, you were talking about
an airdrop that you got in 2022. I'm talking about one that I got in 24. And so I think the news cycle loves to hear about this. We know that collectors go
and spend hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars at these art fairs, and that's cool,
right? But it gets lost quick. And the general population doesn't really care that much about another you know
collector spending a million dollars on something unless it's a historic sale like the frita colo
right but the reason why people are so focused on talking about oh these nfts who that were
um that were collected free sold for this much it gives the regular joe the regular jane out in the world something to
aspire to like oh my gosh maybe i should go to art basel and just just give it a chance maybe i'll
walk out with something i think that is was part of the genius of this whole thing because this was
an onboarding experience as well specifically the jack butcher right but also the people right
because once you have this piece
you know this airdropped piece of paper in your hand then you realize there's actually an nft
connected to it right so i think the the news is is really playing that angle because that's the
angle that they're really trying to hit i didn't even know until later on that the that the dogs
were sold, right?
And I was like, oh, well, that makes sense.
No wonder he's not selling the NFTs.
No wonder he's giving away these things because he's already got buyers on the back end way bigger.
His stuff is covered.
I mean, it was already covered by the $69 million sale.
But now it really is with the sale of the dogs and all this other thing.
So I just wanted to mention that I think this is all very onboarding centric and aspirational news.
People want to hear aspirational news.
They don't want to hear that people made another three,
4 million this weekend.
So that's my thought.
Great take.
I agree wholeheartedly.
People don't care that people made another three or 4 million,
just like people aren't going to care that another NFT artist made another
couple million.
In my opinion,
people are going to, what is going to onboard people, what is going to create momentum
is the excitement, the experience, other people finding this. And here's the thing, it's still
niche. People that aren't already here collecting digital art, they're not going to come in and pay
hundreds or thousands of dollars for digital art. They might collect one for free. They might get
onboarded by what we just saw. Again, case in point, three of the most acclaimed artists in
crypto and Web3, Beeple, Xcopy, Jack Butcher, they gave away or sold something for as little
as a dollar. It's accessible to everyone. Will some of that art appreciate? It already has in
the case of Beeple's. Will the X-Copy Bubbles appreciate?
Probably.
I think they already have as well from free to 50 cents a pop.
Punks, the most successful PFP collection of all time.
It was a free mint.
I'm not saying people shouldn't get paid for their art.
Artists should get paid for their work.
The beauty of blockchain technology, especially now, don't give me all royalties are dead they're not if you min
on a new contract you can still protect them and make sure you earn royalties is you don't have to
charge thousands of dollars you don't have to charge hundreds of dollars and you can still
make a name for yourself in the art world you can still make money in the art world i just think we
you want to talk about pfps it went from punks to apes minting for 200 that ran up to hundreds
of thousands of dollars it was a 200 mint and then and then the bubble happened and people
started getting oh we're gonna mint this for two and a half eath we're gonna mint this for
an eath we're not in that world anymore wake up up. That's not the current market.
There's no mania in NFTs.
There's no rush of people coming in to speculate on these thousands of dollar NFT mints.
It's just not the current state of the market.
And if Xcopy, Beeple, and Jack aren't selling thousand dollar NFT mints, who do you think you are?
And this goes for all. It's not just one particular conversation we'll have here in a second.
But GM, we're going to get in here and we'll wrap things up with the maybe a little bit
spice yeah yeah quick take on the dogs so they so they were taking pictures and they're like looking
at all these people so i asked people i said where's where's the data you know where where is it going and he kind of
he had a lot going on so he was like hi he was like he kind of rambled something off real quick
because he he was kind of i was like i'm interested in the tech you know where what where's this going
you know these robot dogs were sold so do they own the data do they you know where
what are they doing with this data these these um i mean they're taking pictures of people
they're gathering data that's my question you know where where's it going what are they doing with it
um yeah i see it's interesting i my my guess my speculation is that the data and the
pictures they took probably doesn't go with the buyers of the dogs i'm guessing that or maybe they
do but there's also a copier they're still holding their data in some repository would they ever do
anything else with it i don't know but i love that the art that these dogs pooped wasn't just
some art that people created i oh yeah no doubt no doubt no the
whole the whole art and tech and i love it you know it's awesome i'm not in the market it's it's
out of my price range today if i was in the market and in a picture if i was in the background of one
of these i would be i would buy it like you want to talk about an emotional connection like if i
found out like oh i'm in like this is robot dogs took a picture of me like that's mine i want it i'll move i'll rotate some things around to go get one like
i think it was really really really creative art that to traitress's point this isn't this is like
the fourth or fifth iteration of these of these masks these dogs like it's he's continued to create he's continued to experiment
it's not he's not doing the same thing he did in 21 he's not it's way different you know by the way
yeah people's been creating art for 18 years one piece of art every single day it's it's it's he
didn't just get started this didn't just. He's been building this for 18 years.
Yeah,
it was really,
it was a really cool experience.
Yeah.
The funny thing too was,
so I'm sitting there and I look over and I said,
there's Usher.
Like,
okay.
He's just standing there.
And it's funny that people did a piece of Usher where it's,
that looks like Usher needs to do some spring cleanup.
And it has like Usher's face and he's like burning all these computers and stuff.
I was like, that's that's funny.
You know, I mean, I was just sitting there just, you know, cool, calm, collect, you know.
But, yeah, no, it was a great time. Just move forward with this, all this, you know.
Yeah, really enjoyed the conversation was debating not even going here because i'm not this isn't fun i just it's my observation i'm
gonna i'm gonna share i shared it in the war room i'm gonna talk about it now um i also got
distracted by a neurodivergent conversation and um palir's CEO. That's another conversation for another day.
But I had to get that out. Okay. It's off my, I can, I can think I can move on. 10 minutes left
to one other highlight. Bitmine bought another half, half a billion dollars with the ETH last
week. Strategy bought another billion dollars of Bitcoin.
I said it last week, called the bottom in the 80s.
Things are really heating up.
And it's not just digital art.
I think we get a real bowl in 2026.
I don't think it's over.
The cycle's not over.
Things are really heating up.
And I do.
I mean, I said it last week.
I'm going to say it again.
I think Bitcoin in the 80s, I think we ever see 80s again.
This cycle, it is a it's this cycle. It's this cycle.
It's $16,000 Bitcoin. I still think Bitcoin goes to 150, 250K in years, not decades.
And yeah, there's so many. I've seen so many bullish indicators that signify it's not over.
The cycle's not done.
We're not going to zero.
And I think things could get really exciting as we move into 2026 on the digital art and the crypto side, especially if we see new mechanics, new things, not necessarily trying to replay the 2021-2022 playbook. Keep fishing, go ahead,
and then I'll wrap my thoughts. Love those thoughts, Cap. And one thing I wanted to add
to it, and this is just something that I've been kind of thinking through in my own head
for a little while. If you operate under the assumption that crypto is not dead forever and
quantum isn't going to break Bitcoin tomorrow and all of that, we're now, we're just above 90. But,
you know, I think even the people that have been calling for a bear, most of them are predicting okay like maybe we go under 70 maybe we touch under 60
that kind of thing very few people think that it's going to go down to 30 40 that kind of thing
whenever the bear is so going into 2026 if the money that you have, this is just in general, if the money that you have in crypto is not money that you are going to need in the next, let's say, six to 12 months.
And we're now at 90. And if you figure that the bear is going to take us down to 60, we're halfway between the bear bottom and the current all-time high so if you're not going
to need this money and then like it's very clear this cycle has been different from past ones right
and so if you think a bear is coming then we're probably a lot of, if not most of the way there already.
So this is not the time to capitulate.
If again, assuming that, you know, you're taken care of,
you don't need the money in the short term.
This isn't the place to capitulate.
We know QT has just ended.
We know rate cuts are getting priced in for next year. There are risks. There are always going to be risks. But even if there is a large correction, again, in my view to flow and is going to treat crypto the way that it always has, which is to send numbers higher.
So I'm with you, Cap. I agree.
I think there is a lot to be excited about, at least in the next six months, 12 months, who knows.
at least in the next six months,
12 months, who knows?
But I think there's a good chance
that the first half of 26
ends up being really one to sell.
I agree wholeheartedly.
I don't think I gave the disclaimer this morning,
jumped right into things,
but as always,
never any financial license show.
Crypto's risky and T's risky.
Mean coins accept risky at all.
All except for Bitcoin go to zero to moment.
So please don't put any money
you can't afford to lose.
And if you're considering full porting your 401k into a Bitcoin ETF or Bitcoin,
do so with a years or decade long timeline,
not something you need to access within six months.
Like if you're 40 and you're not going to tap into your 401k until you're 65,
you can maybe do some of that.
But if you need to tap into your,
if it's dry powder that you're paying your rent with,
don't do that right now.
Like it's no, this may not be the bottom, but I agree wholeheartedly.
I think we're – if bottom is 60 or 70, we're like halfway between the bottom and all-time high.
And I don't think there's a scenario in 10 years from now that Bitcoin is lower than it is today.
Now, could it be outperformed by the S&P 500?
Sure.
I don't think it will be, but it could.
I just – I think that, yeah, I don't know
if we hit bottom. My gut, my spidey senses tell me we did. Now, could it dip back below into the
80s again? Sure. And if so, I'm going to buy more Bitcoin. And it's not just Bitcoin. It goes for
all majors or anything that you think has a decades long of lifespan ahead of it? But I think there's more things to be excited about now than doom and gloom.
And I say that while fear and greed is still, I'll double check to make sure I'm not way off, but fear and greed is still fear 39.
So it's up big from extreme fear of a week ago.
Everything tells me we bottomed out. We're going to keep
going up. Maybe not, but I think it's a good time to be excited, not just for digital art,
but for the markets as a whole. Last topic of the day, probably good that I only gave us a few
minutes to get into this because I'm not funny and I don't want to piss anyone off.
Time-wise, though, it's just very easy to contrast two things from what we just talked about free
digital art being given away from some of the most acclaimed artists in space
to we have a secondary collection of 25 a supply of 25 000 being minted on solana from doodles
what we know as of today i think more is coming actually do know more is coming
if you missed it uh doodles announced next week 25,000 Doopie Cubes minting on Solana.
Free claim for OGs and duplicators. More details soon.
The one thing we do know now, I'll fill in some blanks here, is that OGs and duplicators can claim one per wallet.
So if you go buy a duplicator, you can claim the same free one as you went and bought an OG one.
I don't get that, but that's just me. you can do whatever you want as a brand or an artist in
the space but it just seems to miss some of the web3 mechanics rewarding your collectors and your
supporters further there's a current arbitrage because it's you know there's a mint price for
these of one to three solana and you could go get it there he's been working
bernett has been working on this since 23 so years it's good art i'm not knocking the art
but you can go buy a duplicator get one of these for free far less than one soul there's an
arbitrage if there's demand and buyers and inness on a mint, a collection,
anytime we have these mechanics where you can hold a thing and get something else for free,
that arbitrage almost always closes very quickly.
It hasn't yet.
Maybe this week changes things.
But right now, the fact that you could, I think it's instead of paying one sole or 140 bucks for a duplicator,
Now, the fact that you could, I think it's instead of paying one sole or 140 bucks for a duplicator, I think you can go for a dupie.
They can go buy a duplicator, trade it in.
And even if that duplicator goes to zero, I think it costs you 51 bucks.
So you're getting it for $80 less than what you would pay for the mint.
That doesn't make any sense.
And if that arbitrage doesn't close before mint, I don't see this thing minting out.
I hope it mints out.
I'm rooting for it.
I'm a doodles fan.
I do like the art. I just, this doesn't excite me as a collector, as an active
participant in the space. What are we doing here? It's just, it's the same mechanics spun a little
differently. That just seems like trying to run back the 20-22 playbook, and I don't get it.
I don't.
25,000 seems extreme,
and there are people, oh, they don't have a secondary collection.
Well, okay, they don't have secondary IP,
but the duplicators exist.
The shorts exist.
The studio existed.
DreamNet was teased.
I just, I don't know. I would like more.
What are the mechanics? So you're going to be merging these things, evolving these things. I, in 2025, I can't understand why we're still keeping so much information, not sharing with the collectors. If we want people who aren't just the home crowd,
our existing holders to buy things,
I think we need to let them know what they're buying.
This is just me, just my opinion.
It's easy for me to Monday morning quarterback.
I'm just sharing how I feel.
I might mint one of these, maybe three.
One to three is probably my max if momentum picks up.
Otherwise, I'm not going to mint any. I think I have a duplicator. I'll claim my free one and call it a day.
Or I'll go buy a duplicator and claim another one.
Maybe head on a rare or something and I'll sell it immediately because I just...
I'm genuinely concerned this thing even mints out from one to three soul.
And you're minting these cubes, the collector cubes, one soul.
Build full set,
all species, all evolution. So it's,
I don't know if they're, again, I really don't know what that even means.
Claim for OGs and duplicators, hypercubes
are three Solana for
rarity maxis, and you get guaranteed
evolution for three plus, or
10x the odds to unleash a one-on-one mega
doobie.
This would have been the talk of the town in 21-22.
I mean, I remember the auction for, I think it was the duplicators.
It was a new mechanic.
This doesn't move the needle for me at all.
And it has, I just, it's like the exact opposite of what we're just talking about the whole show for what drove so much excitement and attention at Art Basel. I don't see this attracting anyone new to the space.
I don't see anyone that isn't already in the Doodles ecosystem saying, oh, I can't wait to
go mint a doopy cube that I might, I hope I'm wrong. I hope this thing mints out and I hope
the floor runs up and I hope everyone makes good money on it. I just, it's just not for me and it's my opinion as a doodles fan a fan of
the artwork a fan of bird toast i just think as just as people has iterated and evolved i would
like to see the same from all nft collections if you want them in a secondary collection cool do
something different and i know they're gonna say all this is different okay slight different
mechanics and i am going to give the other side because I actually asked a couple people if they could come up and give me who's excited about this mint.
I didn't get any volunteers.
Maybe there's someone in the audience that's really excited about paying one to three soul to mint a dupie and maybe something else comes with it.
I haven't seen that.
I've been reaching.
I did get some people kind of like giving me the whys and the worm this morning.
And they even said, yeah, I'm not really excited either. I might
have met one to three of these. Here's the other side of it. I got two posts I'm going to share.
People basically defending what they perceive as FUD on the timeline. Doodles, wow. Doodle
dilution. Oh, man, man. 25-minute market. What are they thinking? I would ask those same questions.
It is dilutive. You don't have to – would ask the same questions. It is dilutive. You don't
have to, like, it just, it is what it is. It's dilutive. And I heard someone say, well, free
is a good thing for collectors. Unless it's dilutive, we've seen this happen before. You
give holders of something a free claim, and oftentimes that pulls down the value of the
original asset they were holding.
We just saw this with Dude not long ago.
Doodles are trading.
They ran up in anticipation for Dude,
but then as soon as Dude dropped,
Doodle floor crashed.
I don't see this playing out any other way.
Duplicators are going to run up in price
and then as soon as this happens, they're going to crash.
I'd love to be wrong.
I just, I'd bet a lot of money that I'm not going to be wrong.
Duplicator's floor is going to go up
and then it's going to crash.
I don't know if that's giving your duplicator holder
something free if the floor price is below
what it was before they announced this.
When did it become cool to whine
like a little B-I-T-C-H all the time?
I don't think people are whining,
but it's okay to challenge critique and question, what are we doing? What am I buying?
The art's cool. Is it worth $2 million for a couple of years' work? I don't know.
I'm not one to tell people what they should sell stuff for, but I'm not going to feel bad for
someone who's making $2 million for making art part-time. And I'm not saying that as a shot.
It's just like he's running a whole business.
So he hasn't spent full-time every day over the last two years making this
art.
$2 million is a lot of money, a lot of money.
My question was,
is there another living artist and traditional art that could make,
build some, you know,
create some prints for the course of two years or a year and then go sell those prints for a
million dollars? I don't know. I don't know one. It's a lot of money from a brand that has raised
millions of dollars. So he says, I see your vision from one artist to the other and how this new cast
of characters will deliver the doodle stories of the entire world don't see that i i don't i don't see it it's just me but again i'm not fudding i'm just asking questions and
i i think some of the it's also to me when i think very valid questions and people take such
offense to it or it becomes such a this isn't i'm not trying to make things pvp i'm not attacking
doodles i'm not attacking doodles.
I'm not attacking Burt Toast.
Just asking questions.
And to me, it seems like the exact opposite of what is creating excitement and momentum in the space right now.
And here's another one that, it's not lost to me.
It's like talking about the hypocrisy and the PVP while at the same time the whole post is PVP post.
I also like Spencer.
I invited Spencer on the show this morning. If you hear this on a replay i'd love to get your ticket
i'm not talking about anyone behind their their backs or i'm not trying to create a pvp environment
i'm just trying to understand and when you say the same people who once paid 5k to 15k in gas
to mint other side nfts are now fighting doodles for minting a secondary collection at one to three
soul to think today is the same market as when other side minted.
I don't like,
it's just not the same thing.
It's apples and oranges.
The other side meant was the most anticipated NFT mint of all time.
The reason people pay that in gas,
because it was so highly anticipated because we knew it was building towards the metaverse,
which was at the time was the next big thing in crypto.
I get none of that with doopies.
This is art.
Okay, it's fine.
But to make that comparison, I just don't get it.
My brain cannot connect the two things.
Everyone just wants to farm engagement, views, impressions,
whatever you call it, but the level of hypocrisy is wild.
They're out here asking, what's the point of a secondary collection?
Is it if every major OG project didn't launch multiple secondary collections themselves?
Yeah, and I don't think anyone should be anymore.
They launched secondary collections in 21, 22.
Doodles did drop duplicators in the studio, and I guess none of that's considered a secondary collection because it's not a character.
That's fine. It's a collection.
It's not a primary collection.
So I would call that a secondary collection.
That's just me.
Is it a secondary character collection no but they've certainly sold other collections and made a lot
of money off of non-primary collections half you are still proudly rocking that ugly mutant you
paid ten of the what does that have to do with anything seriously what does that have to do with
anything i i'm in in my hate that i'm rocking his pfe i'm rocking it proudly that i'm in my ape that I'm rocking as a PFP. I'm rocking it proudly that I'm in it for $200.
There's people still rocking a PFP they paid $400,000 for.
What does that have to do with anything about today's current state of the market and NFT mints and NFT mechanics?
It's exactly why the NFT fees to spill the bots, bad takes, and hypocrites.
I miss the old NFT days.
This isn't the old NFT days is my point.
It's very different. we can't keep running
back the same playbook that worked in 21 22 and expecting the same results it's just it's not the
same market we have to evolve we have to do things differently and dropping secondary collections
that are 25 000 supply and charging one to three soul for it. I do not think that's
it. I, and, and earlier I said, I hope this thing mints out. I hope they have success. I do.
But at the same time, part of me thinks like, man, I kind of hope it doesn't min out because
I don't think this is the path forward for NFTs. If, if apes came out tomorrow and say,
we're making a new collection for one to three sold, I'd probably sell my Ape.
I just don't – it would be such a poor – oh, that's not a secondary collection.
I already have other – yeah, they do, but I just – I'm trying to – what's another one that has done multiple drops, but they're now creating more characters?
If Good Vibes Club came out with us they're the hottest nft men of 2025
if they meant a secondary collection next year i'd be bearish
they nailed it with 6900 not 10 000 or 25 000 there's just who are the buyers who are the 25
000 people they're going to collect this thing i i don't know and it makes me concerned for
if there's success i I can see others.
Okay, let's just doodles. Just said this same thing. We're kind of seeing with the blind boxes, not knocking blind boxes again, sell whatever you want.
There is there is it does come with risk. And yeah, when there's speculation involved, when people are buying these things because there's going to be a token claim or there's going to be an NFT allow list or there's some unknown can get you to sell out your blind boxes, then what?
You're inheriting.
Those that are selling blind boxes are assuming utility debt.
Not all.
Some people are paying $100 for a vinyl.
I would guess 80% to 90% of them are paying $100 for a blind box with speculation there's going to be something else.
They're going to have ongoing expectations.
Even if you don't say so, this space doesn't just do things because they want – there are some people.
Most people don't just go pay hundreds of dollars for an NFT mint because they want that digital art in their wallet.
They just don't.
It's not where we're at anymore.
I hope they have success.
I'm just confused by more so than the price.
I'm confused by a supply of 25,000 in a market where I don't see that kind of domain.
And you could use the Popkins example.
That was also a very different time in the market, in my opinion.
And now we have seen examples this past week, just really, really.
It's all so fresh in my mind.
It's top of my mind.
Could people drop a 25,000 supply collection and would it min out?
Could he charge one to three so far?
Probably he chose not to.
Could Xcopy do the same?
Sure he could.
Instead, he chose to do a 2 million collection for free.
Could Jack drop a 25,000 collection?
Maybe.
I think he knows he probably wouldn't have
that kind of success selling at a high dollar price that's why he goes the more like the
the free or the dollar to mint the thing
again i don't it's not a attack on doodles it's not a attack on burt i truly like the art i
appreciate the art i'd like to know what's going on with the doodle verse what happened with the
universal collaboration they've done a few shorts was that it maybe it wasn't that's
fine if that's all it was I just thought there's gonna be more there
when he's the biggest partnership ever and I just
I feel like the Doodle set has a lot of great collaborations a lot of great
partnerships they've done a lot of cool stuff
there's just not been many ands it's just been the thing and then they move on to
the next thing they move on to the next thing, and then move on to the next thing.
So as someone who's been a holder and has followed and supported this brand
for a couple years, my concern is they do this mint, sells out,
they bring in a couple million dollars,
and they just move on to the next collaboration or the next thing.
And I guess there's some gamified mechanics here.
My read is you're probably going to be merging these dupies,
or you can combine some to make a more rare dupie or something.
I guess it's a cool mechanic.
Again, it doesn't get me excited.
Again, I don't know those details.
Probably speaking too soon.
Sounds like we're going to get more details this week.
I just, all for me, all comes back, not all,
but most of this comes back to a communications issue.
And I just, I think, are we still in a very speculative world?
Yes, absolutely.
I'm not saying we're not in a speculative environment, a speculative space.
I fully get it.
Speaking for myself, I don't have much of an appetite to speculate on things that are costs hundreds of dollars without knowing what
I'm getting or he's having an idea are there is there going to be a lot of people speculating on
this to where I could spend a couple hundred bucks on something not knowing what I'm getting other
than there's going to be it's greater fool's theory and there's gonna be other people
they're gonna pay more for this thing I don't feel that at all right now on a collection of 25,000. Again, art's cool.
It looks great.
What is it for?
What world is it building?
I just would like to know more.
And then I'd like to become a fan again.
But I just, I feel lost.
I feel like, and I don't, again, I'm not trying to make it Julian versus Burt Toast.
I'm not trying to make it the old team versus the new team.
I felt at one point I knew more about Doodle's brand and what they were building than any other
crypto native or any other NFT PFP native brand in the space.
And it's like the polar opposite. I just don't know what they're doing.
I don't need to know. Do whatever you want. It's a free world.
Charge whatever you want. Sell whatever you want. As someone who's here and been here every day
for the last 1,047 weekdays, kind of confused. And I don't, I'd like to support, I'd like to be
an ambassador. I don't know what, I don't know what it is. And it's just not moving the needle
for me. And I would love to see either new mechanics, some new exciting stuff. And maybe
this is here, we just don't know yet. And, again, not trying to port on.
I just would be disingenuous if I didn't share my feelings.
I know this isn't winning any fans over at the Doodles community, but I'm not fighting them.
I'm just asking questions, and I don't have any answers.
And partially it's like the proponents are fighting.
the proponents are fighting it they're making it pvp it doesn't have to be that way
They're making it PVP.
It doesn't have to be that way.
give me like because in tutts and spencer's post i shared earlier the one like
thing for it that wasn't attacking some people who didn't get it was from one artist to another
i see the vision for the ip and how this cast of characters will deliver the story
to the entire world okay expand on that how does it do
that i don't know it's a genuine question but in those the two anti-fud posts were basically
fighting and other people they were or engagement farming other people who didn't get it
like maybe i'm just an idiot i don't know maybe being here for four five years consecutively and
paying attention to this space literally every day i, I'm too slow to figure out what's going on right now.
I just don't get dropping a $25,000 secondary collection in this market for one to three solo.
I don't.
So I'm asking, what are they thinking?
What are they building with this?
How does this cast of characters deliver on the doodle story to the entire world?
I don't know.
And maybe the answer is, well, you don't need to know to know chris okay cool i i choose not to mint then that's it that's all i got um sorry if i heard anyone's feelings or offended them i just
would like to see more experimentation more innovating um captain dad pants in the chat
says doopies slash doodles i understand the need for
artists to create new art in these new doopies but i'd love to see them put integrated into new
content or short episodes it's time to create demand for ip before selling it i agree they
have put these in the do the shorts these are in the doodle verse the doopies are there
but i don't think it's i don't think it's creating any new demand for the IP yet.
And that's, I think, where in my head, I'm really struggling to connect the dots.
Doodles has landed some of the best, if not the best, collaborations in all of crypto.
Massive brands they partnership with.
It takes a lot of work to land those brands.
That's not easy.
But what I feel has been lacking is then what's the and?
Like we talked about jacks, receipts that were a dollar.
Everyone got a seed phrase.
Now, how many of those people are going to actually go use that wallet?
I don't know.
Probably not a lot.
Not as many as it minted for sure.
How many people are going to go claim their people that they got?
How many are going to go set up that wallet? Probably a lot of them. There are people who are excited, but I think
where the data is showing me that the excitement doesn't outweigh the concern is the price of the
duplicator floor right now. If there was more demand than the $25,000 supply,
the duplicator floor would be at least equal to what the mint price is.
It's just not yet.
That's a red flag for me.
I can't remember the last time there was a secondary mint
that if you held the OG mint, you got a free one,
and the OGs were selling for less
than what the mint price was going to be for the public.
I don't remember any.
I don't remember a single occurrence of that happening in it actually minting out.
I hope this is the first.
But.
And it's early.
Maybe people just don't realize that yet.
Maybe we see a big run on.
Maybe duplicators are being slept right now.
But the arbitrage is not getting closed and it's still a pretty big gap,
about $100 gap, which is a lot, tells me it's either price too high or the supply is too much.
That's it. Not knocking the art, not knocking secondary collections. I'm knocking the mechanics
of the price and the supply. That's it. I think they missed the mark on 25,000.
And I think one to three soul is a lot in this market, especially with a supply of 23,000.
But I do appreciate everyone's feedback.
I appreciate the other side of the story.
And I'm glad people are excited about it.
I hope there is more excitement.
And I hope this thing does really well.
I think it's going to take more information to create that missing excitement. And I hope this thing does really well. I think it's going to take more information
to create that missing excitement.
I appreciate Maria sharing as well.
I'm going to pin this up top.
There was a Loki space yesterday.
About 56 minutes in,
Pocky joined and shared a little bit about Doopies.
And she does say, I think they'll be sharing more about it too.
Awesome. My candid feedback for the team, it's not fun. My real feedback is
before the next mint or even tease of a mint, if you're going to share the price and supply,
I think you should be sharing at least material amount of information with it.
What are you getting for the price? What is this thing? What are you doing with it?
I firmly believe people don't have an appetite to spend hundreds of dollars
for just digital art on chain or for new character IP on chain. Maybe I'm wrong,
but me personally, I would be much more interested and excited if I knew what else
was coming with this beyond the doopies, which in the art, it's cool. It's just, I don't know
if we need 25,000 more pieces of character IP in the doodle universe today. It's just not the
market doesn't support it. And that is proven right now by the floor price
on these duplicators if if that's and that very well could change before mint but if it if we get
more information and then it changes again who am i to say maybe that was the plan all along but i
just i think other teams that have are thinking about minting secondary collections should be
paying attention to this mint and see how it goes, what information is shared.
And if you're going to ask for hundreds of dollars,
you're literally asking for $2 million.
It's a lot of money.
I don't think people are willing to give teams,
founders, artists $2 million
without having a little more information.
That's it.
Maybe we get it.
Probably jump with the gun a little bit.
It's not going to be the last time we talk about Doopies.
We'd love to have the team or Burt Toast or Spencer or Todd
or some of these that are really excited about it on one day this week,
maybe mint day to talk about it.
I would love to have my mind changed,
but right now I don't have enough information to do that.
Losing my voice.
We're 19 minutes over.
That's all we got for today. Hope everyone had an awesome week at Art Basel. Appreciate everyone who added the conversation today.
We'll be back tomorrow at 8 a.m. Eastern. We do have not one, but at least two special guests
lined up this week. Appreciate them being understanding and moving the days around.
Just figured there would be a lot of Art Basel slash people slash butcher, Zach Butcher slash
XCopy and a little bit of Doodles conversation this morning. So good chat. Appreciate everyone.
I added the conversation of our new guests from creatress to,
to Thomas and everyone else who joined today.
Appreciate you all.
you're welcome back anytime.
We're back here every Monday through Friday at eight AM Eastern time.
And as my friend,
last comment from Steve from Art Basel.
First thing he says to me,
he's like,
he confirmed that the,
the,
the TV does add at least 10 pounds.
He's like, whoa, you look lean, man.
You look a lot different than you on screen.
So if anyone's telling you you look fat on video, it's the video.
It's not you.
Just make sure that's the power of In Real Life events.
Make sure you get out in person and people can see your beautiful face that isn't puffy from the TV.
But on that note note as my buddy
steve would say we hope you all have a wonderful wonderful day everyone
thanks for tuning into coffee with captain powered by eight point we hope you enjoyed
the show and remember nothing we discussed today is financial advice until next time
keep exploring stay curious and we'll see you soon. Have a great day.
