We're back. Mandatory rock. Mandatory rock. Yeah, I think it's the first time before
Adam is able to be wronged by Twitter. I think, like, remember, like, when we started
in the beginning, like, we always had, like, issues with hearing each other, but we never
got rocked. That was the first one. But, yeah, as people are reconnecting, I just
wanted to add, like, it's very interesting what Gian was saying about Adam Wars. I think that
really is the alpha of the spaces today. And also, I don't know if that's, like,
energetic or how that works, but I know Sam Hart and the team at Time Wave, they have also been
working on, basically, POL as a service, liquidity as a service. And I think that's really, you
know, what we talked about earlier, how the customer sub can generate meaningful revenue
outside of just generating fees and stuff through the atom secure chains. So, I think,
you know, liquidity as a service is an interesting model. We briefly talked about inscriptions. I
think that is also very, very interesting. And I think besides the revenue generated,
it also really strengthens the relations between the customer sub community and the chain, right?
And you saw this revival also happening on Bitcoin with ordinals. But now you're seeing it with
the customer sub community and the atom chain, right? And I think that is also, like, a big
thing, a big net positive of the inscriptions. I don't know. Jonny was speaking last. I don't
know if he's still here. But we got Spade back. Yeah, let's see if anyone is able to go back
because the conversation was actually very interesting. So, we have been terminated
in the most interesting moment of the show. Yeah, I mean, I think I can introduce some of
the ideas that I have and that I intend to, like, put on the forum soon. But, like,
so, I think, you know, like, we've discussed about, like, real revenue versus inflation stuff. I think
Jihan was making a really good point. I think, you know, long-term anyway, what we're seeing
and across the industry and what I think we'll see in Cosmos as well is that, like,
staking reward rates are going to actually shrink and sort of, like, normalize over time.
You know, that has an impact on, like, liquid staking as well as other types of businesses.
But I think, you know, while this happens, this is, like, the opportunity for us to really
sort of, like, create these strong revenue streams. I have, like, two considerations on this. Like,
the first one is, you know, the more organic solid yield sources that we're able to create,
of which, like, transaction fee and MEV, in my opinion, are kind of, like, the ultimate ones,
to be fair. Sure, they might be smaller in dollar value today, but I do think that they're
actually stronger long-term. The more we're able to do this, the more we can supplement
the inflation rate of Adam, which, over time, should help us, like, strengthen the monetary
policy of Adam. And so, you know, like, basically, that's, like, that's one thing that we should be
doing. And what that tells us is it makes sense for the hub to be focusing on the chains that are
generating this sort of, like, alignment money for it, I guess. And so, like, one thing that I think
we could do as the Cosmos Hub community is to say, look, today, the trading centers in the
ecosystems beyond Astroportal Neutron are largely out of the chains, the network of chains secured
by Adam. Hopefully, this will partially change with the introduction of partial set security,
opt-in security, and potentially mesh security in the future, right? So, we should be looking to
expand these security relationship with other chains that are successful and attractive in
the ecosystem. And in the meantime, we should also be strengthening the incentive for chains
to join the security offering. And the way that we do this, in my opinion, is by being proactive
to create on-chain activity and volume that actually solidifies these projects and helps
them be more successful, right? The product is you're secured and aligned with Adam, and that
product is appealing because doing so and consuming this product makes you more successful. And as a
result of this, as a function of how more successful it makes you, you're willing to pay more and more
for access to this service, essentially, right? That's kind of like the theoretical framework.
I think the logical first step in doing this is recognizing that today Adam is, like, not the
main asset on any decks in the ecosystem. It's like on Osmosis, it's Osmo, on Tera, it's like Luna,
and that kind of stuff, right? With Neutron, we have an opportunity to change that and make Adam
the base pair. The reason it hasn't happened yet is because Neutron, for better or for worse,
doesn't control the Adam supply, right? And so, the DAO can't just create Adam to bootstrap
liquidity pairs, but I think this is a very easy problem to solve. What I think could be a
viable idea is let the hub control an amount of Adam that is on Neutron and allow other contributors,
like people in the Neutron ecosystem, the Neutron Foundation, our team and such, to source
other assets, like blue chip assets, like Bitcoin, Ethereum, Repstate, ETH, TIA, and bring them
to do POL with Adam as the base pair, right? So, on the one hand, you're bootstrapping the main
connections of the liquidity graph with other ecosystems, and on the other hand, what you're
doing is you're using a very small amount of Adam to have a very small amount of risk as well,
but to help bootstrap new projects that are launching in the AZ, right? So that,
one, you're creating an incentive for these projects to launch in the AZ rather than elsewhere,
but two, you're also creating an incentive for them to use Adam as the base pair when they're
creating their initial pools, right? So the way that this would work is there's some amount
of Adam somewhere on Neutron. There's either a committee or an automated solution that allows
these projects when they launch their token to bring a certain value of these tokens and give
them to a covenant or something like this, and then that gets paired with a corresponding value
of Adam, like a small amount, maybe it's a hundred k total, and it gets provided as a liquidity pool,
right? What you've done is you've created an incentive and a system for which people would
pair with Adam first and foremost, therefore, so like increasing the likelihood that Adam will be
used as this kind of like nexus of money for all of the pairs and all of the volume that
occurs in the AZ, and that's like, that's really, really good because it makes Adam a better
type of collateral as well, right? There's a lot more liquidity and velocity for the asset
in the ecosystem, and so people can go on and you know, like long, short, do perps and collateralize
things with Adam with a lot more, with a lot better, so like, with a lot more capital efficient
way, because the listing parameters can be less conservative, essentially. So I mean,
bit of a ramble, but like, I hope that this gives you an idea of a frame of thought for
how the hub can be proactive in growing Adam's role as money, and I'm sorry if you hear the
background noise, that's my cat going crazy, but yeah, I'll post some of these thoughts on the forum
soon enough for everybody to review and discuss. We'd love to have your feedback on it already.
Yeah, there was the right curve explanation for Adam as money. I want to give it back to
Jonny because you were cutting off with the spaces, and also like, one question for you,
like regarding the AIDL, you said in the beginning, like you guys are still hiring right now,
a marketing person, and yeah, I mean, you can talk a little bit about also your plans with the
AIDL for this year, like what are the main fields that you want to focus on?
Yeah, and I also want to add to that, that related to the overall discussion, I think there
is also the autumn alignment treasury that was recently approved by the Cosmos of governance
that is related to this kind of conversation, maybe not sure if Chris has some update also on that.
I think like we're all rolling the tokenomics process, you know, in sets, so I'm happy to
see that the Adam alignment treasury got approved. It's going to be much more useful for the hub
as we start to grow from more consumer chains, from deploying more protocol and liquidity.
But I really want to just reflect on what AIDL has funded already in terms of,
kind of similar resembling to Carter's Adam endgame. So for example, on moneyness,
we did start the tokenomics RFP, which has been going fairly well so far.
You know, part of the inflation got reduced, Adam alignment treasury passed,
and then more on the just more tokenomics aspects, the changes are coming soon on that.
On the security aspect, we funded a crypto crew validator, which they essentially serve as like
the center point between, you know, upcoming consumer chains and the hub for, you know, ICS.
And then for liquidity, you know, we're funding time wave, right, to deploy protocol and liquidity
and trustfully and set parameters. So, you know, I think we're AIDL is aligned with everything that
has been discussed here. And for us, like, I think the key aspect is just looking to see how we can
collaborate and support more of the core developers here, you know, in terms of Neutron terms of
stride, of course, informal, Jihan, and, you know, upcoming, you know, consumer chains.
The other thing is, what I'm excited about is the asteroid protocol, I think it's like the first
time where we're kind of seeing like a little bit of a culture come to add the cosmos. And I'm not
saying, you know, we didn't have a culture, but more so on the fun side, where people just
are curious to just, you know, inscribe and mint new tokens on there. So like, it's a new
roadway for demand. And of course, we're excited to support the evolution of that in any way we can.
So we're already, you know, in discussions with various teams on that. But yeah, like in terms of
in terms of AIDL this year, like we're more focused on RFPs, because I think RFPs are more
coordinated grants where, you know, you can deliver on a set mission versus, you know, like,
of course, we're happy to have teams apply for public grants. But it's not, it's like a little
bit fragmented, everybody has their own idea. So I think aligning ideas together to kind of,
you know, form a mission to, you know, co-develop it, you know, independently, but be aligned is
our goal. So, of course, we wanted to hire a grant lead to oversee both aspects of this,
but marketing just to see that, to communicate more of what we're doing, because we realized we
were a little bit short on trying to, you know, relay all the activities that's going on on AIDL,
and we want to change that this year, but also have more community alignment. Like I said,
soon you'll have a community-elected oversight member where anyone can pitch in and refer
somebody. So we want oversight to be completely independent, of course, so that way they do have
the power to, for example, veto anything that we want to fund or, you know, challenge it and,
yeah, just operate more transparently and more efficiently while being
more coordinated and have more collaboration overall.
Yeah, so if you're a marketing person or interested in contributing to the AIDL,
I guess reach out to Kiryas J or follow the Atom Accelerator. I had one last question from
my side for Jihan, and that's about like this whole evolution of shared security and restaking,
which is something that I think is going to be a big, is going to have a big impact this year with
the launch of Eigenlayers specifically, because that unlocks kind of E3 staking.
There's also projects they want to bring into Cosmos and other ecosystems. So I'm just curious,
Jihan, what are your thoughts on that, restaking, mesh security, and how can the Cosmos help
position itself, I guess, with partial shared security, or is there an evolution after that
that you think is needed for Atom to kind of, you know, be eye to eye with those launches,
Eigenlayers and such? Yeah, so I mean, I think, first of all, we are advising,
I guess, on mesh security, the informal team, we're helping them with some of the
more difficult technical topics like slashing and stuff. I'm going to meet with them every week.
So we support mesh security coming to the hub. I think it'll be table stakes in the future for
any chain to be able to use its asset to secure other things through mesh. Then there's also
Eigenlayer. I think Eigenlayer is a lot like mesh security for Ethereum. And that's basically,
I mean, everyone knows about it probably. But you know, if you don't know about it, it's
basically where people can stake their ETH on Ethereum. It's kind of a lot like mesh security
and chain security. There are projects, there's a couple projects trying to bring that to Cosmos
to basically act as a connector and connect. People want to stake their ETH with Cosmos
chains and count that towards their stake. And the way we look at that, and as that
relates to interchange security and partial security, is that first of all, I think there's
almost like way more security out there than there are people to consume the security.
You see this even with ICS, and that's actually been one of the main complaints against it,
is that we have some amount of revenue, like Stride, we were talking about there earlier
in the show. There's revenue coming in from Stride, let's say, and it's solid revenue.
But it's compared to the the stake that's securing, it's just not that much. And I think
that becomes even more of a factor when you bring other assets in. We also have plans,
this is something I'll just leak slightly here, but we have plans to bring other assets to the
hub as well, on not necessarily just Ethereum either. But basically, I think what it comes down
to is you need to have a good platform for people to launch projects, not just the security.
With partial set security, it's actually pretty well positioned for that, because what you get is,
with stuff like eigenlayer, mesh security, stuff like that, you don't actually get a validator set.
You can get your existing validators at getting more security through those channels,
so you start to put it together. With partial set security, it's a little bit more of a platform
where we have this validator set on the hub already, that's where they're going to validate.
And when you launch consumer chain, you're getting validators out of that set. And so
that's something as we develop it, that's something we'll be focusing more and more on,
is the aspect of providing a place for projects to find validators. And it also happens to come
with a lot of security, or as much security as you need, when you launch. That's how I view
that. You want to get closer to the revenue source, which is closer to the projects,
not necessarily just be on the back end providing that pure numerical security.
That's also something I've talked about previously on one of these Twitter spaces,
but another project we have going on is called Atomic IBC. And that's something we're working
on actively as well. We'll share some updates on that, but that's basically making even more
of a platform where app chains can launch and integrate seamlessly. But that's a much more
research thing. But that's also the reason that we came up with that was because last year we were
looking at the landscape of shared security and realized that just the pure security is not a
strong mode. Yeah, maybe that's a topic for another session, Atomic IBC. I actually have
another question, and that's probably for either of you, Spade or Jay. I don't know if
anybody has to run. Yeah, I just wanted to say I'm going to have to drop, unfortunately,
in 10 minutes later in my meeting. But thanks for having me, folks. It has been super interesting.
Yeah, any time, man. But yeah, so maybe Jihan or Joni, with the ADO, I guess that's also more
a question for you anyways. In terms of consumer chain onboarding, I think the
Cosmos Hub has a head start with the quality of projects that are live right now with Neutron
and Stride. Moving forward, I think there's this proposal from the AE13, which is an EVM chain
that wants to become atom secured. And Noble is kind of cylinder works. I don't know what's
the latest on that, actually. But how do you view this kind of onboarding? I feel like there's
also like a little bit of, you know, it comes down to also like BD efforts, right? And if you
look at Eigenlayer, like they, you know, have a huge team, huge war chest, huge funding, big
BD team, I think, you know, they do a lot of the onboarding themselves. On the Cosmos Hub,
it's obviously a bit more different because, you know, there's different teams contributing.
So what I've used on that, and what are some of the chains or teams that you would like to
see or that are kind of in the works right now that you think might be good candidates to
migrate or to just launch being atom secured? I mean, in terms of, you know, the consumer
chain onboarding, like, I'm not too technical, so I think Jihang might be better here. But what
I can say is that, you know, we work with crypto crew. So they've also been working together with
high fund informal to kind of be like that middle point to help, you know, upcoming consumer chains
on many technical issues and have a proper test net. And I think they're also developing a dashboard
soon. But yeah, that was essentially our goal is to have, you know, one team dedicated for
onboarding consumer chains, and they have been working with either team to onboard them.
Obviously, it's going to be up to governance, whether, you know, we want to onboard it or
not. But yeah, in regards to Noble, I'm not really too sure on Noble, maybe they're waiting on
partial set security. But what I can say is that I think one thing is clear for me is that with
chains like Noble, you know, atom as a gas token makes so much sense. Just because of how
decentralized it is, you don't really want a stablecoin, or at least a centralized stablecoin
being as a gas token, because ultimately, it controls, you know, the full function of it. And,
you know, maybe this is just my opinion. You know, I think Noble is amazing, and it's probably one of
the most important chains, but just more towards like setting the precedent of decentralization
across Cosmos, I think, atom as a gas token, where, you know, it's your gateway to the
interchange makes a lot of sense here. So we're happy to support them in any way to onboard it,
you know, provided, you know, for them, it makes sense at some point.
Yeah, I can speak to it. So crypto crew, what they're doing is kind of technical onboarding. So
it's like, if consumer chains have questions about how to integrate the ICS module, you know,
also other things around around relating to the validator set and stuff. But I do I do agree
that we have a lack of BD. And I think that with the Cosmos sub, and I think that there's
kind of two sides to that. So I think first of all, there's a side to BD, which is just kind of like
having people, it's kind of a sales thing, you know, having people going out finding projects,
learning about projects, contacting them, going to the hackathons, you know, what have you. And
that's, and that's something that's kind of important with with any any blockchain
platform is find projects. And on that front, we in our in our funding, in informals,
the informal hub team is mostly, you know, a core software development team. It's the majority,
vast majority of our of our activities are on the software development front. We do have our
funding prop for 2024 does have basically one, one full time equivalent, like, so so half basically
half one person working half time marketing one person working half time on BD. And that's,
that's those are the resources with which we do our BD, I think there's definitely a lot of
scope if the hub wanted to go toe to toe with with some of these other entrants in the shared
security space. I think that having having a lot more resources going to BD would be a great thing.
And that's I don't know, maybe that's something that a DAO can can can work on as well. I'm not
sure. Well, we tried BD DAO, but the community wasn't really in favor for that. So we do have
a strategy team for RFPs, which, you know, can start an RFP for for BD for Cosmos and AEC. So
maybe that that could be another alternative route. But yeah, we our goal was to have a BD DAO,
just that there wasn't really clear milestone set in that. And you know, it's a fair criticism,
but it's a little bit difficult to kind of have your milestone set when you know,
you don't really have a sense of direction yet. So it's more of like,
figuring out where we need to go to properly establish it. So maybe next year might have that.
Yeah, there's and it's also from from our front, we were kind of, you know, we're going for our
problem was kind of a new thing. There's a lot of questions about like, shouldn't the ICFP
be funny because we didn't want to necessarily get way more funding, you know, than we did last year.
So it was so that but that, you know, as you know, as that's that's how, you know,
in both organizations, that's how it's happened. But it's like, for the hub, it would be good if
there was some BD. If there was there was some BD, we should probably think about how to make that
happen. Also, there's another aspect to it as well. There's like, you know, there's just like
the footwork going out and finding people, but then also, the other platforms that are
more centralized and more heavily funded by VCs, they'll also have, you know, like the ability to
grant to projects to build on a platform. So they find a good project say, hey, we'll give you a
grant to build on this platform. And I, you know, that can be kind of like, you know, it's almost
like you're bribing them to user platform. Maybe also, sometimes projects get granted that aren't
aren't that great, but it does help build activity around the platform, really have to be careful with
it. So that's that's another thing, where, where the hub might be coming up short against,
you know, against a more centralized platforms coming in. And I think in terms of addressing that,
you know, of course, I guess the aid out could do some of that. I'm not sure, though, if that's part
of your mandate. But then also with, with like I was saying with with, you know, Adam wars and
kind of the efforts around P.O.L., that's something where we're trying to figure out how
do we give consumer chains an edge so it can almost be like a decentralized granting process.
So, yeah, in conclusion, I think, yeah, we could use better BD on the hub. But I will say
the hub is very well known. It's very decentralized. And it is very easy, generally, I think much
easier than if it was completely new platform to get people interested and have inbound leads
and stuff. So that's that's something the hub that's going for it. I mean, if you look at
Bitcoin, Bitcoin does not have a BD team, you know, so and, you know, it doesn't need it. So
I think the hub is not, you know, Bitcoin, exactly. But we do have some of that going for us.
Yeah, I understand your point here. And I think, like I said, you know, the hub is well known.
And I think so far, so good, like I said, neutron and stride are killer, killer chains.
Noble, I hope the migration happens. We need to get yellow now on here as soon as possible
to make that happen. I also saw communities like taking initiative here, right? And that's what
I said in the in the first part of this basis, the other one that that ragged us, you know,
atom really is this this special unique chain where the community needs to really step up,
right. And there are not like clear incentives for anybody to do that,
besides the fact that you're like contributing to a decentralized system.
But I think everybody's open to do that, you know. So if you have any ideas, any thoughts,
any contacts to builders in crypto, but also, you know, institutions. John went through a list
of projects earlier that are launching now on customers, they're launching their own chains,
you know, settlers also, for example, this gaming chain, a lot of a lot of new wind that is coming
in. And I think, you know, if some of them chose to build as an atom secure chain as a consumer
chain, I think that would be a net positive and a big win for for the happen and the atom community.
I don't know, Rob, do you have any any final remarks or questions or should we wrap it up?
I think I think you did a great summary. I would love those so that we had the
80 boost account on last December. It was just concluded. And I think there was some some
track related to consumer chain that was organized by the Atom Accelerator now. So actually,
that was kind of a precedent for doing bid day on the on this side. Maybe something related
in the future could be interesting. On the on the broader side of today's episode, I think has been
a great episode. And actually, it's amazing to see all the teams coming here and sharing their
priorities for 2024, because we should rebrand this this this podcast, Alpha Zone instead of
Atom Zone, because today we got a lot of updates. And really, I think it shows to the community that
a lot of is happening. The entire community is keeps building despite difficult times of the past.
And even now that we are getting relief, the conviction that remain the same. And
if we get all this great advancement, like partial security, and we got a mix of all the
of all the other other Cosmos sub revenue possibilities, I think it's going to be
very interesting. And we will be here to share updates to the community.
Hopefully, every week, I don't know if we will be able to get it to get this every week. But
sure, there will be a lot of ups. So stay tuned for the next episode. And thanks everyone to joining
today. Thank you, guys. It was a pleasure. Yeah, next week, watch out for the asteroid team to join
us, potentially. And then, yeah, the week after I don't know if you can say, can we say that
was on the week after that, Rob, or not yet? No, I mean, I mean, you can say it's, it's a
reward for everyone that has been here until the last minute of the show.
Okay, so we can say it. What did I teach something that so we have the asteroid team on next week,
and then the week after we have the a ether or ether team on. So, yeah, definitely interesting and
productive. I think these spaces are very productive. And yeah, today we got rags,
we're also a bit over time. So maybe the next time we can also open it up more for
the community to ask questions. But yeah, I got to eat now. I'm hungry. But yeah,
this was very alpha packed. And thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. Thanks.
Thanks, everyone. Bye bye.