Hey everyone, yeah, some technical stuff can everyone hear me just like any kind of hearts or thumbs up or fancy stuff you can do there we go. Cool. Yeah, so this has been happening on Twitter like it's crazy, you know, like I don't get it, but anyway, now we
We now have the power, Axel R and Squid community. I am the captain now, but yeah, anyway, obviously not super-used to the day figures are going, mate. I just unmuted the laugh. I don't know why I do that.
No, all good man, all good. It looks like, yeah, it looks like pretty much everyone's back. So yeah, these things usually work out okay. And yeah, there's definitely like, on the last two or three spaces that I've been on personally, this has happened, it just kind of drops off and then the whole thing rugs and you have to create a new one. But you know what, the community get it and it
looks like pretty much everyone that was here is back again and more people listening. So yeah man like again thanks so much for having us. Just yeah obviously super pumped always to chat to people like yourselves. We are like super deeply integrated. As it was saying it's been
a real key part of and I guess like not to not to try and take the wheel but I guess something that I just wanted to kind of preface now that there's been a bit of a gap is that I think you know everyone wants this kind of cross-chain stuff to go on you know they want this kind of liquidity shared between ecosystem
systems, but sometimes when it comes to the idea of bridging, you know, people get, for some reason they're like, you know, get a bit scared about that. But what I really love about you guys, if I can just kind of turn the tables for one second, is that you guys are tackling that very much head on. And it's been something that has been very, very
important to us. So yeah, I'm sure we'll get to the house and the wise of that. But for sure, just for everyone on this call, I mean, Axelor and Squid, to be fair, like Fulcuggera, have been, well, easily the most kind of responsive and active team
in terms of helping us reach whatever goals we are going through and what we're trying to achieve. Anyway, figure it out. Let's carry on. Thank you for those kind words. You guys are insane as well. I said that every time we go in the chat, they've shipped a new product
product. It's almost like we just mentioned an idea and I wake up the morning after and they've already built it. It's really amazing seeing you guys ship. Also, you've taken to the cross-chain vision and understood it probably better than anyone else really.
I've I wanted to ask you I mean I was gonna ask you later in the in the talk, but let's just get into it now you've I've seen you Not only just integrate like our technology, but actually go across into these other ecosystems and start making partnerships with teams in the polka dot ecosystem as well as
across the entire EVA ecosystem. Not to mention you are a cosmos chain and I'm sure you've made a lot of partnerships within the cosmos too. Could you tell us a little bit about just that strategy and how you've
enjoyed making partnerships with teams on in a different ecosystem and how, like, why you do that and how it's worked out. Yeah, absolutely. And this is kind of like on the back of what I was saying about what you guys are doing. It kind of really does make it possible.
So before like the very first cross chain interaction that we had was and this isn't kind of the source and really by choice, but what I mean is it was more by relationship and getting to know people. And so the first the first interaction that we had with another
another chain in another community was with the Polkadot community. We had done a whole bunch of work and we had really deep in terms of Orca because that's kind of in our first product. I guess in a lot of ways we kind of feel like it is
our, I suppose, flagship. That's a bit of a, bit of a dry word. But I guess it is what it is because I think it's, it's something that kind of at least it can get the attention of people, which I think you need in the space, right? You need, it's quite handy to have something really new. And you know, I guess
sort of innovative and whatever. I don't know, like, put words in my own mouth about what we've done, but that was the easiest way for us to reach out to people. And so, okay, listen, why don't you think about this? Because it's a paradigm shift, right? It's not just, oh, here's a piece of technology. It requires people, like, having to really
changed the way that they think about in this case how liquidations are done and all the rest of it. So to come back to your question, when it comes down to the interactions we've had and how those have gone, it's been quite nice for us to kind of lead with Orca because it is one of those things that I get
people can look at and say, "Okay, hang on, this is a paradigm shift." This is interesting in that the community can suddenly take hold over something that, as I mentioned before, has traditionally been left for this underground group of people that are just swimming around with their
and stuff like that. But since then, the game has changed somewhat and legitimately that is thanks to you guys. So for example now, I think you kind of alluded to it, the way we've embraced the kind of cross-chain stuff.
even though we know that there might be much liquidity now, we're not really stressed about that. I was actually having a chat with Huntsy other day about how we value generic growth way more than, for example, waking up tomorrow morning and the TVL has done a 3x, right? That kind of stuff
to us, it doesn't signify real growth or organic growth, should I say. And so coming back to the integrations that we have with Squared, Axelar in particular, we've been able to really create some, what we think, pretty exciting things. Like, for example,
The arb token is now available as collateral to mined USK. And that's kind of one decent example I can think of that is brought about pretty much entirely because of the tick that you guys are building. And yes, we get it, right? Like people are going to look at the, oh, you know, there's only
like 5k worth it's been minted and that's fine because it's not about it like I don't think this cross chain sort of all even cross chain seems weird to me well I don't know I don't want to speak for you guys but I feel like it's more about like almost abstraction than it is about cross
change. I think people have been speaking about cross-chain forever. It's been a topic that has been brought about in the blockchain world for ages. Everyone talks about cross-chain. This is the dream. Blah blah blah. How was
is going to happen, right? Like how is this actually going to become a reality? And what's happened in the last specifically, I would say, hey, I think you could correct me, but I'd say probably the last six months, I would say things really started changing in that regard. From
really kind of crusty solutions that just seem clunky and bad and the users just not going to get it. So now we are super excited about the fact that for example with Sonar people can literally just restore their metamass seed phrase and suddenly they can interact with
there literally one click to bring down their assets that are on Metamask in other words Ethereum or for example some other EVM chain. And this is really I think you guys have quite clearly made some pretty big strides there
terms of going from this concept of, "Oh, we need to be cross-chain and this is what needs to be done." So it's suddenly becoming quite a reality. So in terms of sonar, like I'm over at, as I was mentioning, these are huge benefits to us because people can literally just go on
and restore their metamorphosed. And some of me they don't, I think we're getting very, very, very close to the point where people don't actually need to even be concerned about where they are, where they might have been before, and all this kind of stuff. So I don't know, I guess not to like, you know, I mean, I'm not the
but it would be cool to, I guess, hear from your side about, you know, how you guys have achieved that. No, I mean, you know, see you laughing like, no, because it's fascinating to us, right? Like, we, we speak a lot and like, we, we utilize this tech, but, you know, we don't often get the chance to, you say, we are shippers, like, we keep hearing from#
like oh yeah yeah now you can do this now you can do that oh here we go Kajira here's a here's a one literally one click a thearium to to Kajira like it's mental so I guess it would be I'm I'm assuming that people don't want to hear me babbling on as much as hearing how this tech has actually come about or I don't know any any insights from your end
Now Figs gonna rug me after that whole long speech. Terrible, terrible.
Are you still there brother?
Oh no, I was on mute the whole time. I said we could definitely have a conversation. Does that feel one way straight? Okay, great, great. Gee, she left me sweating there. Yeah, so I think you're right. Six months ago.
I mean, that was basically when we launched, but like six months ago, we, I think the idea of cross-chain starts to fade into the background. That's what, I mean, that's our whole goal is that you shouldn't even really need to think about going across-chain. And we're a big part of that solution.
I think, but the wallet is really that's where it all comes together and it's really exciting to hear about Sonar and like that you guys obviously understand this new leading the way with user experience there. I guess you asked what else has really changed recently? I think it
But the 22nd swaps that we have, and it's actually like 10 seconds in most cases, but Axelar and Squirt have got all cross-chain interactions down to about 20 seconds. This is just within the EVM world for now, but we're doing it in the Cosmos as well. I think that's a huge difference because
previously if you would have go from arbitrary to any chain, you'd have to wait about 20 minutes for it to be secure. And now that we've got that down, like 20 minutes to 20 seconds, it's not a 10x imprisonment, that's a 60x imprisonment. It's like really, really different experience.
So I think that's changing. Another thing we're working on is essentially the gas experience. I think we've mostly solved it now so that whenever you use Squid to get onto a new chain, we can detect if you have any gas on that chain and we can program
the swap to swap a tiny bit into native cajira or ethereum or madica or whatever you're going so that you have gas to use that chain. So I think that's a good enough solution for now but in the long run maybe there'll be more complex ways of solving gas so that you don't even know you have gas.
everything might be gassless, for example. But really, I think the next step is the wallet. That's where we're going to see a big lift. So we'd love to hear more about, like, if you want to explain more about Sonar, like, it's a multi-chain wallet you can log in with, you can use a Metamask.
seed phrase and then suddenly have access to more chains than Metamasker's access to that sounds. Sounds really cool. You're going to have portfolio management in the wallet or at least access to DeFi. Do you want to dive into that a little bit more? Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we've obviously had
to have a long-hot think about the overall, I guess, global approach of SONAR. We don't want to try and compete with every wallet provider out there. I think that's something that we need to make pretty clear, right? As I explained before,
for in the first part of this call, we are building sort of, I guess, rails for people to be able to come along and build all sorts of strategies, D-Fast strategies or otherwise, right? To be able to come along and build on top of what we've already built.
If you think about the concept of, you know, I'll get yes, of course you have an order book which you can do X and Y with, you know, you've got Orca which you could plug in soon and do X and Y with of course you can build a number of strategies on top of that. And when you look at teams like Calc and well pretty much anyone building on top of the
you mentioned that we ship a lot like, and I said this the other day somewhere, the reason for that is because we've been adamant on building these rails that people can build on top of. And not being frightened about potentially this concept of a lack of liquidity right now because what can you do?
You've got to build rails that people can build on and if you don't build those people aren't going to come and if people don't come you know there's not going to be liquidity. So this is kind of our you know we don't rely on external forces or anything we're just building an ecosystem ready from the ground up and then you know when it comes
to sonar for sure like the approach that we decided to take was not to just come out and say we're another wallet. There's some amazing wallets and you can see we promote them right, whether it's Leap, X, D, Fy, Kepler, it doesn't matter, all these guys are doing amazing work and they're
building brilliant wallets for D-File. And honestly, I can imagine even myself, I'm going to continue to use those wallets for sure, 100% but what we're trying to do with Sonar is almost we're almost one people too. Well, we kind of don't want people to think about it as a wall.
it's a defy application. It's a native defy application. And so when you mention how do we picture people using it and moving around the ecosystem, we are literally going to natively build in pretty much every, well, as much as we possibly can. So for example, right
When it launches, they'll be fined obviously trading, order book style, but from completely decentralized, from within a native mobile app, that goes without saying, you'll be able to manage your US came-in seat positions, all this kind of stuff, but very soon after.
you know, like you said, we pride ourselves in being able to build and build relatively quickly. What we see the sonar becoming is really a portal into DeFi that can actually help people be able to move around and I guess the whole point
is to be able to put your money to work. I guess much like you would in any kind of other bank or whatever, but now I don't know where you guys live, it will depend on what kind of interest rates and things that can be offered, but certainly in a large part of the world, you just have this concept of almost like
zero interest rights. There's almost nothing in it for you. And I mean, in parts of Europe, it's like you're well, you're literally paying to have a bank account. So what we're trying to really, really do here is to build a financial ecosystem that can actually benefit people and it cuts out all those middlemen that are
coming along and say, well, you can't have this cut, you can't have that cut. And you're going to be left with your 0.001 kind of interest rates. And you kind of wonder what am I doing here? So in terms of sonar, it really is more-- and of course, it's the cajira ecosystem because we can't build the
DeFi app that works on some other platform like we were building with what we have. So so now really is going to be the way that you can just come in in the palm of your hand and actually go off and hey you know I might want to lend, I might want to lend something out to people you know I'll gain I'll
gain something for that. I might want to borrow. I can come along and I'll use my assets and borrow, you know, borrow again something else and go and go off and get something else, you know, get some stable coin or whatever you might want to do it the other way around. You might be shorting whatever the case may be. We want people to be able to move around in an ecosystem from the palm of
the hands and the ecosystem of course we know best and the one that we can actually build an app for is the Kajera ecosystem. So just to be clear this isn't this isn't necessarily something that's trying to come along and say you know we're going to like defeat whatever Kepler or any of these guys because we work closely with with pretty much all the
wallet providers. But yeah, like just to go back to kind of what you were saying, so not to us is really something that needs to be a cajura specific thing. And we even, for example, we had a workshop with the KELK guys, we are like super committed, it's going to be open source, but also we're going to
work closely with teams in terms of helping them onboard into the app. So you'll be able to kind of like, you know, just kind of like shoot through to your favorite application. But it's the idea is it's not just this kind of wallet connect and you know, you sort of still need to be on a browser. The ultimate goal is that
that all of the most key functionality will be actually native inside a native application. And we think that's pretty exciting, really. We think that is, I guess we went the other way around, but we had to write like we didn't have a native
mobile app to sort of build on and also even if we did, I don't, this is kind of what we keep saying to people when they're like, oh, wow, why shouldn't Kipler do this or whatever? We don't expect Kipler to imagine. Integrate like the whole sweet up Kujera apps into their native apps as I could never going to happen for obvious reasons. And we respect that.
But we need a place for people to be able to come in and do all sorts of cool stuff that you can on the cajure network from the Palmley hands, from a native app. And yeah, so I hope that kind of explains that vision that we're thinking against, you know, a regular wallet person.
Yeah, that vision I think is perfect. We've been I think in the troughs of this bear market in the last few months of just everyone I speak to is waiting for. What's the application and in a way we have a lot of applications already but maybe this model with needing to log in with your wallet
But it's not the only way that you access crypto, you can have these complete applications where it's more of a portal and you have inbuilt wallet functionality, but that's not what it's about. It's about actually doing things which you want to be doing with crypto.
So accessing the different technologies and things people are building. We've got Thiborg on the spaces here, and Thiborg is, I'll let him introduce himself, but he's an amazing trove of information.
figure in the cosmos. Also I think he's recently been a bit cajura pilt so it might be good timing for him to jump in and maybe ask a question or two. Yeah that's exactly right I've been cajura pilt by the Donk Kuptoni interview and the Dove the other day that was a great one. I knew cajura from the terror
So I was a Terra user and I think I think they've nailed it a couple of minutes ago when he said you want to be able to put your money to work and at the same time have the ability to use it easily right and that's really what I liked about Terra at the time and that's why I got into crypto in the first place is because you could put your money
I think that was a great value position for people. Clearly very unsustainable. The way Terra designed it.
But you know, at least the concept was there. And what I liked about Kuchira is that it's trying to replicate that. So, you know, as I'm speaking right now, I have some, I have some ST atom put to work. I'm getting the atom in fashion at the same time. I have some USK beating on some on some KUJI, in fact. And you know, the fact that that
I'm speaking here and at the same time this is going on in the background and I'm trusting Kajira software to essentially do the work for me. I think he's a great setup. Actually, on that topic I had a question for Dove. Maybe I want to understand a little bit more about how that works.
I just described the setup, right? Like I have some ST out on my board, USK. I launched this USK. I got XUSK. I use the XUSK to be on KUGi. Maybe it would be nice for me and for everyone here to understand in that case, you know, if KUGi goes down for some reason.
and I'm able to get some liquidity to KUJI. What exactly happened in the background for this XUSK? Yeah, sure. So, I mean, the thing is, what we've been careful to do with the ecosystem is not proper up with any kind of... I don't want to say that anyone else has done it in some kind of fake way.
But so for example, like with the Kajira ecosystem, when it comes to burying and lending, it's pretty straightforward. There's fees paid on some person's side and those then of course get passed on. And so if you are going to lend out, you are obviously people
pay to borrow, right? That makes sense. So the difference here is that there isn't just this kind of like once or 20% or whatever that's been given out that is like, you know, potentially not going to be sustainable down the line. It might be sustainable in the near term, but I think the difference with
could gira is that this happens organically much I guess that much like you would have expected a bank to do it probably back in the day. Now obviously I'm hesitant to mention you know tried fine and and and regular banks but I think what's happened is that they are just sort of printing money and I think things have got out of control.
But if you think about it from our perspective, it's actually quite simple. There's no real tricks, right? If someone is being charged a commission on or a fee on one side, that's being passed on to somebody else on the other side. So if you want to go off and you borrow any assets and you end up with this kind of ex assets,
That that that APR that you are gaining is simply coming from somebody else being willing to be charged that fee, right? So this is something that isn't and that's that that's kind of the thing we keep saying with Kajira, you know, we're not we don't pretend to reinvent the wheel in every circle
circumstance. Like, Alka may, yeah, sure, you know, sometimes we're going to come up with something that is simply a way of wrapping up something that's happened before, but potentially in a more human friendly way or in a more democratic way. But the important thing to realize is that whatever
Whatever APR that you sort of getting from one side is definitely being paid for in one way or another from the other side, right? So this is like, this is something we really want to stress. This ecosystem is not built on a single guess. There's, you know, there's not one bit of
of code or algorithm or anything that's trying to say, okay, something might happen in the future, therefore we can crank this thing to X. And so it really is just that, I don't know, it's kind of like a bipartisan, you know, like, okay, I've got this, you know, I get charged X
to do this and then somebody else on the other end is gaining from that. So when you look at all the X assets that are available on Kajira, it really is exactly that. There is this is something that we were super careful about. There isn't a way, okay, so we want and need
ecosystem to always at very, very least be net zero. That's the main thing. So there is no possible way that you can go and break the net zero potential effects of the Couture ecosystem. So hopefully that answers the question like if somebody is being
charge something on one side and someone is gaining from it from the other side, this is where your benefits and your APR come from. And that's why those APRs keep on their dynamic, right? Because it depends on the utilization rates and a whole bunch of other stuff that obviously people
much smarter than me have actually designed but these are just basic financial concepts that we have put onto the blockchain. We don't want to do anything that is wild, crazy and unsustainable. So that's really what it is. You're just simply receiving the benefits from someone else making an action on the blockchain.
Let's say right now I just logged in as you were explaining. The APR on USK is 14% on ghost. Can you maybe explain what the other day was for for instance I think it was a week ago. So maybe can you can you can describe here what are the levers that push
opened on the APR for USK? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I don't know. Hans, are you even available right now? I mean, I'm obviously more of the kind of like mouthpiece. I do a bit of dare, but I'm a UIDF, obviously.
I understand the system as well as I can, but when it comes to the exact systems that I put in place, I do know that it really is, for example, if you have somebody that is literally paying ex amounts to borrow,
You look at the utilization rates across that. So you look at the amounts of assets that are available that are being up for lending and it all has to do with the amount that it's being utilized or not utilized. So this is kind of like you just think about the APIs that are being applied. These are always the
have to be dynamic because it all depends on how much of the assets is being lent out and how much of those fees are then being consumed by people that want to borrow. That really is like the basic analysis. There isn't any
no trickery involved in how this might work. It depends on literally the amount of capital that is up for lending or borrowing and the amount of people that are actually taking up that lending or borrowing. So if you think about it, obviously if you
So, the actualization rates change, the APR kind of has to change because there's only so much in the pool and so much that is available to everyone. And that really is, that's my basic answer to it because that really is all it is. Obviously, if you have an infinite pool of funds,
and infinite, I mean a finite pool of funds and a finite pool of people lending out at a certain rate that simply determines what is going to happen on the other side. So it literally is just the case of how much is in the pool, how much is actually being lent
versus how much is being borrowed. I guess you could think about it similar to a liquidity pool, I suppose. You think about the utilization rate is obviously if way more people dive in that APR comes down. It's very much the same concept, except now
These are real commissions being charged or real interest rates being charged instead of the concept of, you know, oh, we are pumping, you know, a whole bunch of free tokens into the market to prop up this rate. That is the difference. We don't have that concept of, except on the
where you can actually have people that can apply incentives, then of course you can sort of get a fixed one, not fixed, but a semi fixed APR. And that's basically it, man.
It comes down to the amount of capital available and the amount of utilization of the capital that is being used. And that's why these things will vary. But that's what you want, right? You don't want a system that can go insolvent because on one side of that utilization rate, something is being skewed.
Yeah, that's right. I think I was mostly curious, you know, it seems to be working really well. Right now the borrow rate for U.S.K. is like 22%. So that's a super high borrow rate. Meaning people are willing to borrow U.S.K. at 22%. I was wondering if you had any clue about, you know, why people would do that.
As I say, it really does just come down to the amounts of capital involved and how much it's being utilized. And that is all very much circular. In other words, there is no way to break that side of those bonds. For example, it's swung
the other way and you know what I mean is that it went lopsided between the borrow and the lending then it would simply change and that's why it's dynamic there the year as I say there's no real yeah there's no real magic to it other than just a normal balanced curve of how you would usually look at lending and borrowing.
Yeah, another very good side of Kujirat for me and maybe you can describe that a little bit was the whole senator system. You know, we are launching in a chain security, the variators of the sovereign chains that are moving into
security are not going to be producing blocks anymore. And so, you know, we've been discussing what kind of role they could have and possibly some things around governance or the obvious answer. And that could be right. Seems you've been already thinking about that stuff and kind of have a model already that works and that is
different from the traditional customer's model. So it would be great if you can describe briefly how the Senate model works on Kuchir. I think that's a very interesting topic. Yeah, no, definitely. So we realized that there was somewhat a disconnect between, I guess, regular governance.
We call it chain governance and then senate governance. That's just kind of the terms that we've given it. We realized that there was it was quite tricky to try and give the validators, you know, that responsibility of having to
basically make the decisions that probably most affect the chain in terms of the actual development of it in terms of protocols coming on board and the growth in terms of new projects on the chain.
And we started seeing that it was coming up more and more. We started seeing that the validators were feeling like they were kind of punching underwater a little bit. And they were kind of battling to take on both of these roles, of both just simply securing the train.
Of course there's regular governance stuff, you know I'm talking about regular upgrades or whatever stuff you would expect in terms of standard governance and then we saw this whole other aspect coming into play where obviously we have our community fight
And we had this concept of people coming along and requesting funds. And I think what we've all probably seen in governance is there is if there is fatigue for sure there's governance fatigue and then there's also
just the fact that probably a lot of people in the community will tend to vote yes if you're not a mean like that is a thing and I don't blame people for that right how could you so imagine someone comes on board and we've had this we've had one or two instances already
where these projects have come on board and said, "Okay, we need 100K or we haven't had any crazy grants or anything, but it's still enough to make you wonder, 150Ks have come along and build some whatever auto balancing, Poonos, and they end up just going quite often."
a few weeks. So we kind of we spotted this and we realized that this was a bit of a problem. And so the kind of solution that we came up with was the idea of the Senate, like a group of people that could be more intensive to the needs of people that are coming on board to build on Kajira.
But also to try and vet, I suppose in a lot of ways, the request that come through to make sure that we can try and be as close to possible as not giving away loads of money for no reason. And I'll be honest, Thiball, you know, it's
There's a lot of challenges. There's a ton of challenges, even with the Senates. But it's a good thing, I think. We've had to grapple with it a lot. There's been a lot of... There's been cycles in terms of even the Senate that have been really tricky for us
managed, but I still think we have to try and propose solutions and I think that we're getting now towards the point where the Senate is actually starting to flow a bit more freely. But yeah, that was really the reason that we came up with the Senate concept and why it's been running like that because, as I say,
kind of this idea of fatigue in terms of governance when it comes to validators but also be making sure that you can at least have a group of people that can both help and vet projects that are coming through. I mean it's not perfect but it's a start.
Yeah, I think what's especially interesting is that these people seem to be accountable to the community, which is not the case, you know, for me obviously I work a lot on the Cosmos Hub. A lot of these values are people that participate in the fundraiser that have, you know, a huge amount of stake in the Cosmos network. Sometimes it's their own stake.
So essentially, you know, they can vote the way they want. Like they don't have to report to anyone about the way they want. And the community and people on Twitter can complain, but it won't move the needle. And I think the Senate model is different in that the people that got elected seem to be caring about what people think and the feedback they get and the
pushback sometime that they get a lot more like they have to answer questions from the community and that's that's what really caught my intention to to the Senate model and that's something I would like some some consumer consumer general on the customer's up to explore like similar models and so yeah I will hand back the line of questionings to to figure out
I think after I've asked you enough questions, but definitely a project that I think is very different from many other customers. And so that's why it's great to get your take on it. Thank you, mate. I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah, thanks, David. Thanks for the questions. I've actually got a call coming up, so we should start to wrap it up.
Do you want to know I'm going to hand it over to give you an opportunity to shill even more? Mr. Dove, what are you guys excited about coming up? I mean, apart from Sonar maybe, but what would you like to share? What would you like the community to get involved with to try to track things out?
Yeah, no worries. So, yeah, obviously, like, as I said, you know, Surnor is more kind of the bringing together of everything we're doing under one roof, making sure that we go mobile first. We didn't have that option to do it earlier on, but now we're at that point, which I think is cool.
But I guess just because of the context of the call, I guess there is some stuff that we've been thinking about which is super interesting and I think especially with the GMP stuff that you guys are doing now we are by the way we are like I mean I don't know the timeline but it's not like I'm hiding it
I think it's maybe a week that we'll be able to roll that out on the Kajira chain itself. There's some massively exciting opportunities there. And speaking to Hunson Brett about it over the last few days, because you've all been in the same town for a while, which is cool. As well as the guys from KELK,
And the reason I say that because it does all tie in. So the opportunities that I think they take that you guys are building and what we can possibly do now are becoming a lot more limitless. So if okay, let's look at
something like Orca, just for example, because potentially most people know maybe a bit more about that in terms of interacting with it. But there is now or very, very soon going to be the opportunity for people, let's say, on arbitrum because that
That seems to be a community and an ecosystem that is almost just naturally unfolding that we're connecting. It's not really been something just by the way that we've necessarily rushed out and created. It's actually been very much community-lit, which has been amazing. It's purely community members that have gone out.
and pushed a USK and Kujee out onto the arbitra network which has been fantastic. Genuinely, like, I'm not just saying this, it's almost had nothing to do with us. We just kind of jump in when people tell us. And so now
So part one is something like this. Once these upgrades roll out, you can legitimately have somebody on Arbitram with the wallet of their choice going, OK, I'm going to bid in an Orchipule.
And then retract from an Orchipule. So if you think about it, those are really the only two actions that they are worried about. And they won't miss it. Well, they won't have to know what's happening in the interim because that's being handled by obviously, Feg, your
your lovely technology. And this is something that's pretty damn insane. I guess the second consideration is, okay, well, why would somebody necessarily want from the Arbitrum network want to come along and bid on
kuji or atom. But this is kind of what I was trying to say before. It's like you don't, you know, Rome isn't built in a day, right? Like you don't. You can't expect everybody to understand the sort of like global crypto dreams
that we all have. And I guess not even we do, right? We're just trying to work towards building solutions. But so if step one is literally, okay, here we go. You can now just make a bed. Oh, wow, it was hit and then retracted. And in your
your own favorite wallet in your own favorite ecosystem you end up with these assets, that is pretty damn huge. In terms of this one click approach, I genuinely don't think that's not even a done thing right now. And then I think the step moving on from that is
is this sort of like total abstraction. But for that to happen, it is important that we have this presence on, let's say, arbitrage, which we now do. So we now, at least the Cajera token is there, and Uris K is there. Of course, down the line, hopefully, you know,
And this is what I was saying on a space the other day, like right now everything seems quite siloed. But if you think about what is going on now, again, with the work you guys are doing specifically, we can't really imagine what the tech is going to look like. You mentioned six months, you're
only launched. Imagine six months from now, I would like to think that there's going to be way, way, way more abstraction and way more opportunities that we can't even see. So, you know, the dream, sure, someone from Arbitrum just comes on, can
I mean, technically you can actually bet on arbitrary liquidations on Cajera, but like I say, there's still one or two little kinks in there, but the first step is this GMP Cajera, which we already have, this one click into Sonar.
This like computer abstraction of where you might be coming from where you might be going and we believe that that is like something super important for for people to have an apartment at hand so yeah, I mean hopefully that makes sense but that really is the thing that we are now pushing forward we've built these rails people are going to build on top
for them. It seems already are again, yes, when liquidity blah blah blah all that stuff we get it, but liquidity comes when good products come I think and that's what we're doing.
Yeah, 100% folks on building. Yeah, that's very exciting. I can't wait for single click into Sonar from Arbitram or it's, yeah, I won't give dates and what way I was launching. I think you're already at a week, but. Cool. All right. Well, I've got to jump off.
Thanks so much for the chat. I had a lot of fun and thanks to the cyborg and Kate as well for thanks Kate for having us and that worked for jumping. Yeah, thank you guys. This is great. Thanks for being flexible everyone joining us over on continuous page. This is a this is great super super interesting and
And yeah, excited to, the alpha that you dropped to come to fruition in a week or so, apparently. Cool. Let's go. Thank you guys. Singles. Appreciate it. Thank you. Awesome things, guys. Bye.