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🚨 BABYLON BEE FIRES VP VIA TWITTER: w/ Congressman George Santos
Recorded: May 28, 2023 Duration: 2:37:24Space Recording
Short Summary
The transcript covers a range of topics, including the firing of a key figure at Babylon B, discussions on cancel culture, and the divisive nature of the current political primary. These discussions reflect broader trends in media transparency, political polarization, and legislative developments.
Full Transcription
Justin, Preston, how are you guys?
Good afternoon.
All right, who's got children? Is that Preston or Justin?
Who do you think?
How many are we up to now?
The one talking in my mic right now is number eight, and then, hey guys, number nine is on the way.
I don't think I've announced that last night.
I didn't tell you that, Mario, crew.
Number nine due in December.
It's a Brady Bunch family. Don't get too scared.
So it's, this will be, I have six kids to my name.
This will be number seven.
My wife has two for her previous marriage.
We have, we will have four altogether.
So it's nine altogether if you're doing the math.
Do whatever you're doing for a living because I don't even know how somebody pays for all that.
You can do the Brady Bunch with just the kids, Justin.
It pays for itself and just loves and hugs.
That's what you need.
There you go.
Things with this story, especially at Preston, I just heard you speak in another space about this.
I've gotten a little bit more intense.
It seems to get more intense by the day.
You know, it seems like it's a really polarizing issue.
So I know we had a decently long space on this yesterday, but, gee, I mean, there's been
plenty of developments today as well.
Yeah.
Just trying to get the panel up here.
Bear with us.
All right.
There we go.
Building out a little bit.
Some business takes a little bit of the time.
Chief.
Ben,
welcome back.
Oh, and Max, too.
You're up here too.
And Doc.
All right, we're building out quickly.
Max is on the freaking front lines of this whole Trump-Dissantis war, it seems.
So that's...
It was rumored one time that Max and I were the same person.
The illustrious great Rebecca Jones, who is, I think, still criminally indicted.
I can't remember where that stands.
She admitted guilt for the felony.
She's still out on bail for the stalking charge.
But yeah, she accused me of being a lot of people.
She accused me of being like a police chief.
She accused me of being like some administrator in her son's school.
She's me being you.
She used me of being some random guy in Indiana.
She accused me of being Christina, of course, but who hasn't been accused of that.
And then she accused me of being Dan Goldwasser.
So, you know, she's dealing with her stuff.
It seems like she's got a lot on her plate because, you know, I think she is attacking DeSantis constantly.
Well, she was, I mean, man, we could, I mean, we could have a whole space on the whole spaces on her at one point.
It was, it was, I've had many spaces on this as well. Like, it all started in, in May of 2020. I mean, I'm not going to tell the story, but they started May 2020. And there's this rumor like they fired this person in Florida. The Florida Department of Health fired someone who was revealing that the Department of Health was falsifying COVID data.
And, like, it immediately came out that, like, it was completely, like, not true.
She was not anyone involved in it.
And yet she's, like, persisted for, for three years claiming she, she whistleblue something.
Then it came out.
There's all this other criminal stuff and just...
It's just a whole mess.
And this is just like, and then she ran for Congress against Matt Gates.
Vich can probably speak to that.
And she's still, you know, she's still pushing the same stuff.
She's still pushing.
I mean, this is an issue I think that unites the Trump into Sanchez camps because she's,
she's smearing Christina as a stalker and smearing Matt Gates as a pedophile.
And it's all very, very ugly stuff from a person who's been involuntarily detained into the Baker Act and arrested five times and has all kinds of criminal issues.
She was Baker acted down there in Florida?
Yeah.
Yeah, she was.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So...
Just give a short, you know, because we're going to kick off here in just a second,
but I do want to ask, you know, just for our audience,
what is exactly, you are from Florida,
and you're pretty up on this stuff.
What is the Baker hack?
I don't remember the exact detail.
I mean, the short story is that you're involuntarily detained for mental health issues.
It's like a 5150 in California.
Three days hold, then you got a release unless there's two...
Two doctors who will testify as to your dangerous condition, and then you can be held longer.
That's in California.
Okay.
Swam, do you want to kick off real quick?
There are a couple other people that I actually want to invite to this panel if we can.
So go ahead.
Oh, give me two minutes, bro.
Yeah, yeah, sure.
That's fine.
Let's see.
Okay, cool. So Preston, I'll start off with you here because we're seeing the aftermath of what happened with the Babylon v being publicly, you know, fired for what the accusation is that Gavin, who was the vice president of marketing at the Babylon B was fired, you know, seemingly because he was, you know, very pro-Trump.
Seth Dillon, the CEO of the Babylon B,
set on an Earthspace yesterday,
that he was fired because he was being vulgar.
But you have a similar story.
You worked for right-side broadcasting network for a while.
I believe you are a writer with them.
So, you know, is this a similar situation or, you know, can they be compared at all?
Yeah, 100% because you seem to be saying that you were fired for being pro or saying things against the same.
Preston, Preston, just before you answer that, guys, can you hear me?
Yep.
Awesome.
Awesome.
So, guys, we have got a number of, we have invited a number of people.
So if you're on request, we will bring you up as the show goes on.
So do not worry.
Like, if you've been invited, we will try to-
I can step down to Laman.
I can step down because you're going to have a lot of, you know,
because we're going to go into the legal aspect of it as well.
Okay.
Yeah, nobody panic and start another space is called Mario Speakers suck.
Okay.
Everything goes flowing here.
We'll get you up as we can.
Yeah, so we will get you up.
If you've been invited, we'll get you up during the show,
so that's for sure.
So do not worry.
Just stay on the request button.
Sorry, Preston, I did intro.
Please go ahead.
Yeah, so I think the situations are pretty much exactly alike.
I wasn't employed at right side broadcasting.
I was an independent contractor,
which is what every writer for RSPN is an independent contractor.
I was...
On their schedule to produce content every single week, articles that were op-ed pieces.
They knew that I was going in.
That was the reason they reached out to me that I was pro-Trump.
And that was going to be my angle.
And the chief editor called me up one day and it was, you know, 9 a.m. in the morning.
Very random, though, because, you know, I had, I had had content going up on Instagram for a long time that was of the same type of, you know, tone that was kind of making fun of DeSantis, playing off the Meatball Ron joke.
And I get a call saying that...
She's worried, this is the chief editor, I'm not going to, you go look at who that is.
And she says, we're worried that if you stay on, you're going to basically pose sort of a problem for us because Ron's PR team could get the, could get a bad sense about RSPN.
And if we are, if we have writers that are writing for us that are posting memes about him like you are on your social media.
And so basically we're going to have to terminate you.
And I said, well, honestly, it feels like you're musling me.
You know, I'm posting lighthearted stuff.
Like if it was super nasty, vulgar or, like, you know, factually unfounded stuff,
then that'd be one thing.
But, like, these are just memes.
And she said, sorry, this decision's already been made.
You know, you're cut off.
Well, then they got a bunch of public backlash for it,
just like the Babylon B is getting right now.
um we call that the fall of babylon but um
RSBN got a ton of backlash for it
and they ended up trying to
put out some BS press release and backpedal
just like Seth Dillon's doing right now too
so I think these situations are absolutely
comparable but the real thing
that really raises alarm bells
here is that people can
say oh this is a satire website
they're not bound by the same journalistic
integrity that other
news outlets are
you know kind of bound to that's
still not really that true. I think, at least as a consumer of all news, I want to know that
whatever news organization I'm reading from, whether it be satire or not, is not being under the
table politically fueled by a campaign without me knowing it. And so when I came to find out that
you know, Seth Dillon allegedly has that comes out with this admission of accepting payments from the DeSantis team and is basically a speech writing consultant for them.
That's pretty alarming for me.
And, you know, I think we're in a time right now where you never know what news is true and what news is not true.
But we have all the facts.
We have all the receipts and the text messages and everything that proves it.
And so...
Babylon B is going down.
The Ron DeSantis team is just getting painted every day.
I mean, Trump honestly can just kick back in his recliner and drink sweet tea because
these people are doing the job for us.
They are slandering people.
They're trying to take away people's livelihood.
And if we have, we do, pro-Jasantis people in this room, they're going to get up and
take the mic and defend, you know, Seth Dillon and Christina Poushaw, who...
Christina and Jenna Ellis and all the rest of that gang, they are sick individuals because they go after us, us as in me, Alex Broussovic, Laura Lumer.
They have Newsweek or, you know, all these other outlets that they have contacts with do hit pieces on us constantly.
So they are sick individuals.
The DeSantis campaign is made up of that.
You know, DeSantis is a user.
He used Trump for so long.
We all...
Can you wrap that?
Can you help him have a wrap up, please?
I want to ask you, if I can ask a question for president and chief, Trump, sir.
What about the criticism that people from the kind of the dissentist,
I mean, they're just, you know, conservative media are saying that the way you're treating Babylon
B is basically cancel culture.
Now we you know that you're you're pushing a cancel culture against Babel Bambi that you guys have criticized so much on the other side.
No, it's not cancel culture when an organization or you know business entity is not representing the values that you feel aligned with you.
If Target for instance.
They constantly promote LGBT and the transgender bathroom bull crap, so I don't shop there.
And I encourage other people who share my values not to shop there.
And that's not necessarily cancel culture.
That's just me sharing with a group of my friends, hey, this group is actively working toward our set of Christian values.
We shouldn't support them.
That's not really cancel culture.
Cancel culture is going after somebody for just purely political purposes.
Right.
This is a fundamentally immoral and unethical thing to fire somebody in the public square simply over defending their own character and being pro-Trump.
That is wrong.
So just to make sure I understand, you think there's a differentiation.
You think if it's culturally aligned, that's one issue, that's fine.
So a boycott.
But a political, as you say, if I'm not mistaken, kind of like an attack, a hit job against somebody, that's where you draw the line.
I just want to make sure I understand. It's just a legitimate question.
Yeah, I think if a group or entity does not represent my values and is actively working against my values, people are fully within their right to say, okay, let's not support these guys anymore and do what they did to Bud Light, drain them $6 billion in a week.
Yeah, 100%. Especially if they're working against Christian values.
I'll say that next. Max, let me ask you. I want to get you in here real quick. Is it fair to get, obviously there have been, it's Christina Poshaw, you can correct me if I'm wrong on that. Jenna Ellis has taken a lot of heat as well. Is it fair to bring them into this? Is there any sort of, you know, link? Where does that application come from?
No, it's, look, you know, the long and short of this is that Gavin acted like a jerk online and then tried to show up his boss and it got fired.
And you can say, like, well, they could have handled internally.
Should have been something else.
Like, we know that that's what happened because that's what he did all the time.
Like, and they're like there are other people who are pro Trump, pro Dostantis, anti both of them.
And they didn't get fired.
Like, this is pretty simple what happened.
And I think like trying to make this into a...
into like some grand conspiracy where like Christina did something she didn't do anything
trying to make into a grand conspiracy where the dissentist campaign had something to do with this is
it's very opportunistic it's basically just just Gavin refusing to take responsibility for his actions
and uh
Yeah, it's him refusing to take responsibility here his actions.
Plus, the added bonus, it's protecting against the downside, which is avoiding responsibility for his actions.
And then it's also protecting the upside, which is like, look at me, I'm fighting for Trump and I'm fighting against DeSantis and saying that DeSantis is trying to blacklist people, kind of like how the Trump campaign is threatening to blacklist anyone who ever worked for DeSantis.
Which is actually happening and which AB who gets paid $35,000 to support Trump supports.
So it is what it is.
Wait, but the thing you said, the issue is that there's not a clear understanding of what specifically was it that he got fired for.
Chief Trumpster, you're trying to do this little like,
You dig at like individual things.
Like the problem is you have to search for specific things.
Like we know what Gavin was doing and you can like it or you can dislike it.
He was the most aggressively like insulting.
Like it's aggressively insulting people going after in like a very, you know, in his unique way.
And you can say that's fine.
But he's the one who did it.
Like the examples you're looking for, you had to look for them.
Max, you're not, again, so I would
at least finish your point respectfully.
I don't think you've let me finish that
as of right now.
The point I'm trying to make is
is that no one in this call, I don't think, is denying a private company has the right to do whatever.
So you made that point as if anyone in this call is trying to deny that claim, which is, I think, inaccurate or mischaracterization.
The issue that I had going into the space was,
yesterday or however when this whole thing started was that it seemed selective because he said it was not a volume issue and that he doesn't monitor he he he said in the space i had a transcript i looked at this yet like this morning he said that he doesn't monitor his employees and he's not going to he can have any knowing or knowledge of some of other things we're talking about but then said later on that he he saw there's 250 tweets or 200 tweets a day or something like that
So the point was their inconsistencies in ways said publicly.
And those are something we should be pointing to.
Now, no one here is going to know what internally it was.
If there is any internal problems or not, that's something that Seth and Gavin will have to deal with.
And I'm sure that, you know, I'm sure Gavin will be retaining counsel or looking at this as anyone probably here would if they're in his situation.
And I don't know how far I'll go with that.
But, yeah.
you know, and whether there's a case for it or not, I'm not a lawyer, maybe.
I think Benjamin is more well versed in that, I think.
But, you know, I think the issue, though, is from a public stance looking into this, it's selective because he said at one time he doesn't monitor or have any, he doesn't monitor these tweets, but he said he did.
He said that it's not a...
a volume issue, but a mean-spirited issue.
But then he said later on,
though it's apparent issue.
And then he played really like very vague war games saying,
I fire him actually.
I said to remove the Babylon B from his bio.
And he also saw the war games for like 10 minutes,
this, right which person it was,
I think it was Paul his name was,
trying to go and ask very simple question was he fired.
And,
And he couldn't give this a straight answer for this.
And if we're trying to go with public transparency,
I understand his legal issues here.
But from a public look,
it just didn't really seem that clear,
you know,
or concise to me.
And it seemed like it's a PR disaster.
But you're looking at this,
like,
you're looking at this like a lawyer
trying to parse individual,
like,
like details.
It's,
it's very simple,
like,
He became a problem employee, so he got fired.
It reminds me of the time that tech lead, the prominent YouTube channel, he was talking way too much about his job in big tech and like opining way too much.
And he got fired.
Compare that to like just a random person who had casually remarks in their job and says similar things.
But like no one really notices.
They don't get fired.
Yeah.
This is, you know, if we didn't, if this was not a political, this was not something that people talked about in politics, like, this wouldn't be controversial at all.
Max, tell us where the pattern was.
Max, Max, Max, I'm going to ask you a few questions.
So just to be clear, I want to start at the beginning.
So the argument that Seth made was,
that this guy was basically, and you said the same thing,
that he was crazy essentially on Twitter.
He was being horrible.
He was being mean.
I mean, I have looked into this, although superficially,
so I'd like for you, because you made the comment as well,
and so I'm sure you'll have the evidence to back it up.
Like where this guy has been nasty and it's been one way,
because I looked at his tweets with your tweets,
and you were basically attacking him.
He was attacking you.
I think his fair game.
And I don't like this whole thing of like,
oh, I can say anything I want to somebody
and that person's not allowed to respond.
So I saw his interaction with you
and it was back and forth.
You were being quite aggressive.
He was being aggressive back.
in terms of the contentions that were made.
I saw his interaction with Jenna Ellis and the same thing.
They were being both quite aggressive in the same manner.
Like what I mean by that, they weren't being aggressive.
But the tone was very similar, what they were using to each other.
And so essentially, he was having a number of interaction with dissenters people.
But, so for me, that's, so first of all, a question to you is,
do you think that's fair game?
Like, is it okay for him to basically give people the same energy he's receiving
or when both people are interacting?
And the second question is, can you direct it to a situation
where he was full on abuse and it was just him being on a full-on attack
and it wasn't a back and forth with, for example, the DeSantis camp?
Yeah, I don't know about, like, you know, we want me to, like,
dig up examples.
I'm just on my phone.
What I'll say is that it's...
Like, if it's a pattern, if it's something that you notice over time, then you know, then like you just know. Like there's no other person at the Babylonian who is visible.
Like what, like, what do you specifically want me to like, you want me to like list examples? You don't get to. Yeah. There was a pattern. And then.
So not list examples, but like, and I wouldn't ask you to make a comprehensive list, especially like, you know, at this specific moment where you're on the panel.
But when you're saying there's a pattern, one normally remembers at least one or two or a few occasions where this guy's done something and it's been him on the attack.
Do you get what I mean?
Like, for example, your interaction with you and Jenna Ellis, I don't think meets that requirement because it was a back and forth from a political perspective.
And what I mean by that is political opponents.
You guys are the dissent in this camp.
He's the Trump camp and you guys are having a back and forth.
I've even seen your interaction with him.
It's always about you basically tagging him and saying, you know, what do you think about this and him doing the same?
And so it's, do you get what I mean?
I think what you're missing is, what Max is trying to say is this really has nothing to do with, like, Max doesn't have to justify this in the least, right?
The issue is when you're an executive at a company, and I've been there before, when I've been like a chief marketing officer of a company, my tweets go silent on politics.
I will lock my account because I know I'm representing the company then.
And so all Seth had to do is say, this guy is representing the company poorly.
in any which way. It could be a single tweet and he's gone. And I still don't have the
answer whether he was a W2 or 1099. Unfortunately for Preston,
Preston doesn't really have a case. In the space that Rahim did just before this,
they did say he was a W2. But in terms of, again, just in what you're saying,
you're saying it could be a one-off tweet. But the problem is Seth came on yesterday. And
what he said was it was a
pattern of behavior and he even said
oh the guy's doing like 250
tweets a day so it wasn't the
one tweet his argument was a pattern of behavior
if my employee is doing
250 tweets a day I'm firing his
butt okay he's employee
but Sleiman's point
Wait, what...
Let Ben...
I think Ben should speak.
Suleiman's point, and I'm going to actually counter it, but just to be fair to Sleiman, his point
is that it sounds like Seth was engaging in some kind of selective enforcement of rules
or saying that Gavin was doing things that other people weren't doing, and perhaps that wasn't the case.
No, I didn't say that.
Okay, so...
The challenge is, let's say that the things Seth said yesterday were true about Gavin, but we're also true about other employees.
It still doesn't mean that Gavin wasn't employed at will or that he has a legal claim, right?
Generally, unless you have a claim of discrimination, you don't have a wrongful termination claim if you're employed at will.
Ben, we're going to go on to that.
And the reason is I really want to structure in this because I feel like I want to cover all the issues.
And this is one of the issues we're going to cover.
We've got Doc and Benjamin here in terms of the...
employment aspect. We've got the issue in terms of the reason for the termination.
I really want to cover all these issues properly so we can get down to the bottom
because I feel like when we're talking about one thing, then someone brings in like two or three
other things and we don't get to the bottom of it. Because we're looking at what Seth's contention
was. Seth's argument was it was a pattern of behavior and allegedly the guy was doing like
250 tweets a day. He's
I heard Rahim's space and his argument was that even this interaction that he had with about Christina Persho was essentially out of his work hours.
But anyway, that's by the by.
I want examples if Seth has made that contention and he has given that reason to us of what this pattern of behavior was and an example of it.
And the fact that he was being mean, he said he was being mean.
Examples.
Sure. I mean, the examples, you know, this was not the first time. And again, like, I'm not going to say, like, should he have done it? He knows better than I do. What I'm saying is the reason that it happened was that there's an employee who keeps calling people fat and ugly and insulting them. And his boss told him to stop. And he didn't stop. And he quote tweeted his boss, tried to show him up.
And that's like, that's the pattern.
Okay, okay.
And that's it.
And whether someone else should have,
it's kind of like just...
That's fine.
That's fine.
So your argument isn't a pattern of behavior because even that one where you're
talking about being fat or whatever it is, that was a response.
They were both having an interaction as I read it.
She was being cocky to him.
He was being cocky back.
I know like people want attack liberals, but it's all this thing like we become, we become like
you know, a thin-skinned when someone's attacking out on people.
Essentially, I saw that interaction.
I did want to read it.
They were both being cocky to each other.
Now, maybe you, maybe run dissenters people have a rule that like women are off limits.
You can't, you know, they can say what they want.
And, you know, they're a bit more liberal.
I don't know.
But essentially, that was a back and forth.
I want examples of where he was attacking someone and that person and it was just one way.
And then we'll talk about the fact that he quote tweeted Seth Dillon.
But Seth's main reason was a pattern of behavior, mean spiritedness.
Sorry, go ahead.
On Twitter specifically though, Suleiman?
Just to be clear, was the pattern only about behavior on Twitter?
Or was Seth actually referencing other things that he didn't go into?
Oh, so the whole thing...
Well, Ben, he did say it on Twitter.
And just to add, because I did listen to Rahim Space earlier,
Max made the contention that these guys have never spoken to him about his behaviors.
They've never talked to about it.
Who made the contention?
Sorry?
I didn't, I don't know what he's, I don't know what he said.
He was never confronted about it.
This was a, this was out of the, out of the, sorry, not Maxx, I apologies.
That Gavin was never approached about it and he was never ever reprimanded about it.
He was actually offered like greater shares in the company, wherever it is, a percentage.
And then this was out of the blue.
So thoughts.
We can I say it really quickly?
Because the whole thing, it's like we're...
The issue is that he said two different things.
We don't know it's a pattern or not because in the very beginning, he said it was not a pattern but a volume.
Not volume issue, but a mean-spirited tweet.
And then later on, he said it was a pattern.
So the whole issue, we don't even know this because of the pattern or not.
And at one point he said he doesn't monitor employee tweets.
Then at another time, he said that he saw him doing it 250 times.
So there is a clear.
clear contradiction over saying.
There's not some lawyer looking at this.
I don't have a legal background or anything.
But it's just me common sense.
So I was looking at the transcript,
looking back at what was said in the,
in these spaces.
I mean,
being listening to spaces too and hearing conflicting issues.
I'm not going to opine and say,
there is clearly a legal case for this.
I'm not a lawyer.
I'll let the people who have actual degrees
can talk about that.
Let me go to,
let me go to Evie about that.
Evie,
Evie, go ahead.
So I got to say something. I know that Gavin, you know, he keeps talking about Seth saying, you know, I want to give you shares. But anybody that is running a business, which I am, understands the way that you want to do business. If you're in marketing and you give your employee a share,
it makes them work harder because they are making money with you.
It's just common practice in business does not mean that Gavin was the best.
I'm also not saying that Gavin doesn't do his job because as far as I know, he probably does
and I've never heard anything about his production.
However, the problem that everybody has been going crazy in the past three days is we're trying to paint this as a move of, you know, Desantis guys against Trump.
It may be.
But when we're defending somebody like Gavin Wax that I personally know the damage he has done to our Republican Party and to the Trump campaign,
It's crazy.
He started trashing before another person from New York, which I didn't mention by name.
And again, he made a mistake by bringing her in when she couldn't even speak and give her side of the story.
But the fact is that no Novas speak to him in New York.
His gala is attended.
by people that are coming from outside of New York.
No one from New York wants to go to his event.
The protest of Trump, when he was indicted, okay,
he did the protest, he came out,
he started trashing the chairperson of New York City GOP at Cox,
which happened to be the son-in-law of President Nixon,
a guy with a lot of money, experience.
He has been in the campaign of President Nixon doing an amazing...
He is the one that flipped 11 seats in New York, which was unheard of, okay?
Okay?
he started trashing him.
Where were you?
Meanwhile, Trump is best friend with him.
And he did amazing in 2020.
He ran the whole campaign pretty much for Trump.
And you know why we didn't show up at the protest?
Because of Gavin Wax.
And if you guys think that that was a big protest, it was not.
There was a lot of anti-protests in there and a lot of media.
And that's how he's hiding it.
Does he try to do good?
Absolutely.
Gavin Wax trashes women like crazy.
I've seen him said to a former mayor in accounting, New York.
He was having another.
He was bullying him.
And in the end, he goes, now why don't you go and see your wife get effed?
How can you be the chairperson of?
Is there any evidence of this?
Yes.
I can literally, I can literally post it in the second of my Twitter.
Please, I mean, I even have the text message of Rahim, but you know what?
I don't want to talk, Rahim.
You can post that.
I use the C-R-R-A-R-R-I-R-Haw.
I use the C-W-R-R-T.
You can post whatever you want.
No, I don't want to do that.
Hold on.
I want to jump in.
Let me just go to one second.
I just tweeted.
Because this is Vish.
I work closely with Gavin in New York.
I know Evie.
Evie's been to plenty of our parties.
She used to love them until she got on Gavin's bad side.
I don't want to hear.
How did I get on his bedside?
Nobody wants to come to our parties.
Don't even, don't even start with that.
Evie, don't...
That's not what she said.
That's not what she said.
That's a fact.
Second.
Secondly, secondly, secondly, I
I don't even think that you are the most qualified to talk about whether or not Gavin is or, you know, worth his space in New York or not.
Clearly, he has the largest club in the country in New York where a lot of people support what he's doing.
From outside of New York.
The globe, people all over the globe in New York.
Exactly.
But he's the purpose.
That is the point.
In New York.
That is the point
That is the point
We're doing
Now Evie
You won't let anybody speak
It's what look
You can't
This is the problem
This is
Let me show
Let me turn
You can respond
Yeah look
Look
Evie, you can, you could try to smear Gavin's character as much as you want.
The fact of the matter is Seth did something in a hot-headed moment, and now he got caught with his pants down.
But he, in the previous space with Rahim, Gavin clearly states none of my tweets, neither the volume nor the vulgarity.
Nothing about my tweets was ever brought up to me.
ever and so
what is the relevance of that this
well that because there
there's there's no established
pattern by Seth
to say that there
that there is a pattern of vulgarity or a
volume of tweets he has a problem with
as his employer so
there is no record of that
that we're aware of and Gavin has
gone on the record and said that that has
never happened so that is the first
problem with what Seth
is saying
Secondly, to talk about to then in the previous space, Gavin went on record again and said that there is no social media policy.
He didn't even sign a contract and he's on a W2.
There is no paperwork that Seth handed him.
To me, this really sounds like a hot-headed...
CEO did something really sloppy and on the back end it's all really sloppy and that's why this is a mess.
Do you mean the firing or the hiring in the first place? Because Gavin only worked there for four months.
One begets, but one begets the other. What, you're going to have somebody work for you for you for
for you for saying that you work for me or, and these are the rules? Are you kidding? And why would
Gavin want to work? But Vich, that's just the thing. These criticisms, if these criticisms are true, let's say,
They're true. Why would Gavin want to work there? If the Babylon B is such a badly run place.
Because Gavin made this clear, and it's a very easy reason to understand, the checks cleared.
As long as the checks cleared, he was good. He saw it as a startup environment. He treated it like a family.
Gentleman's agreement. Shake hands. We do that in New York all the time.
So he was naive? Is that his position?
Oh, my God.
This is not...
This is not...
This is not...
This is not Gavin's problem.
This is Seth's problem.
Seth doesn't have the paperwork.
Seth doesn't have a policy in writing
that he asked Gavin to adhere to.
Seth doesn't really have anything to my knowledge.
And so,
there's no paperwork backing up any of the claims
that Seth is making.
There's no correspondence that...
can back up any of the...
They still haven't talked to him.
What is necessary, exactly?
That is why his PR is a mess on top of that.
They still haven't talked to him.
That is why his PR is a mess on top of it.
Yeah, the thing...
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, the thing also...
One second, one second, Chief, before you get in.
Let me just bring it in, Rahim, thanks for joining us.
Yeah, ma'am.
I listened to some of your space earlier.
It was very informative.
I know that you hired...
Gavin after he was essentially possibly now, we don't even know, fired by that tree.
I mean, what's your thought first question?
I mean, can you hire him?
He might not ever be fired.
Yeah, I mean, he may not be a free agent.
We don't know.
But I said to him overnight, it didn't yesterday.
We went through the whole situation, what happened, what his perspective on it was,
what we considered the background of all of this might be, what it might not be.
You know, very much the same conversations that you guys have been having.
And I said to him, listen, if you want a job, I've got a job for you.
So, you know, he was very appreciative of that.
I have to say, I've seen some nonsense in my time,
but this is the most manifest nonsense I've seen from an employer in maybe ever.
You just do not fire your employees on social media,
no matter what they say.
If I have a problem with what my writers tweet,
I tell them to their face, I say,
hey, some people might get offended at this,
some people might think that,
and it's up to you whether or not you wanna leave it up.
I'm not gonna police your Twitter
feed, not least when you hire somebody who is known for their political mentality, who is known for their ideology, who is known as being a bit of a brawler and a bruiser in the public arena.
And for him, for Seth to turn around and say, oh, you know, we have these policies, okay, let's see them.
Show us the policies.
Show us whatever, you know, you need to show us to prove that you're not just making this up on the fly.
Right.
I think this is...
It's like no one's business here.
I think it's a terrible...
Well, he made it everyone's business, didn't he?
And I think it's a terrible...
Is Gavin's position that these policies don't exist?
Is Gavin's position that these policies don't exist?
Correct.
Just to be clear, so we know it was talking about.
He went on the record and stated that.
He went on the record and stayed at that.
And asked me a point as made here.
Like, you know, Gavin could be whatever, you know, whatever bad guy you want to paint him as.
But guess what?
There still is no evidence that's why he got fired for because there's two double standards with what he said in the space.
You think it says it'd be the entire time around.
So it doesn't even like matter in that whole conversation.
Like, it's like, okay, so one person saying bad behavior, bad pattern.
Seth, the person who employed him has two different reasons for why he got fired.
So there's not consistent part on that.
So that's the main issue.
So let me bring Doc in here real quick because this is one of the biggest points of contention here.
When you see that, you know, the line of events here where Gavin tweeted, you know, a little bit of a charged tweet at...
one of the DeSantis team there.
And he ended up getting responded to by the CEO,
essentially publicly firing him for that,
although they had no contact before.
He didn't even,
Seth never followed him on Twitter,
you never engaged with any of his tweets.
Yeah.
And, you know, given everything else we know now, is this something that you would worry about?
He didn't, he didn't have a contract.
Just to add to what Nick said, he possibly didn't even have a contract.
He signed a W-2.
Sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, no.
So a couple things here.
You know, an employer in normal circumstances, normal course, is advised by the state of Florida.
I went and checked.
to maintain a progressive discipline program.
What does that mean?
Well, number one, an employee when they're hired
should be handed in employee handbook,
whether they're an independent contractor,
an at-will employee, or a contracted employee.
There should be at a base understanding
from the beginning what the demands of the employment
are relative to the employee.
From what I've heard,
I spent a few minutes in Rahim's space,
It seemed to me that what Gavin was saying, there was no, what I would call an employee handbook, no prior warning or notice that his behavior was somehow objectionable.
The fact that he had 250 tweets, I mean, from my perspective, it seemed like he was being paid to tweet, or at least that was an integral part of his job.
So I don't see that being demonstrably problematic.
Right.
the the exchange between Max, Gavin, Christina, and then finally Seth, I don't see anything particularly problematic in that, not given the context of what Babylon B does, which subtly pokes, this is a assess assessment, subtly pokes at both sides.
So why rise up as the CEO on Twitter or anywhere else to take a side against an employee who clearly
you knew was a Trump supporter?
As someone's mentioned, he's only been working there for four months.
So I'm assuming that his character hasn't changed in the four months from the time he
was hired to now.
Why rise up and take personal offense at that?
There's been enough talk.
I've been in enough of spaces to where no one is clearly, at least in my mind, delineated that was anything particularly offensive, given the context of both Twitter and this company and the people involved.
So I looked at this carefully.
There's no criminal case here, clearly, right?
So is there a tort here?
Well, there's two opportunities in my mind for a tort.
One's liable and one's slander because there was written defamation, hypothetically, and there was spoken defamation in the spaces.
One, I thought it was very, very silly for an employee, no matter what context, to come on, number one, to make it public firing.
and because that could be, that could, that could constitute a hostile working environment,
particularly a sense to a working environment is Twitter and, and social media.
So that raises a specter for, and let me be clear, is that, is that something that, say,
the Babylon B could be sued for at them, or any employer could be sued for something along those lines as well?
No, I don't think so, and I'll tell you why. And I think Rahim,
in his attempt to rescue,
what I would, in my opinion,
would be an effective employee for this sort of work.
I'm a Trump supporter, so I've seen his work,
and I've done similar stuff,
and I've crossed the line and become caustic at times.
And that's just the nature, in my opinion,
of, you know, the campaign as it sits right now.
These two people are contesting for the same position,
and things are going to get hot,
And eventually everyone calms down and we have 2016 in the conflict with Ted Cruz and other candidates.
We know what to expect from Trump.
So we should know what to expect from employees who are asked to cover Trump or asked to cover DeSantis.
So the only question here is in my mind, were there any damages suffered by Seth?
You know, there's five elements for defamation.
the two that are really problematic, if for any sort of lawsuit, whether it be liable or slander,
was the statement that Gavin made was it false?
Well, no, it was an opinion.
It wasn't a statement of fact.
To the extent that there was any opinion, I think he just insulted Christina Pasha.
And from what I can see, that's the genesis.
That's the origin of the motivation for the parties to go at it the way that they did.
And there's no, because Rahim hired him, he has no damages.
He can't come forward and say, I lost my job, I've got no income, you know, these are my damages.
Just to be clear, I haven't actually hired him yet.
I said, if you need a job, I've got one for you.
Yeah, I was going to ask him.
But I don't know what he's paid, so I don't know what it's going to cost.
Right.
So those are the subtleties behind that.
I did hear him say in your space, Rahim,
that he doesn't even know that he's been fired.
I would suggest to you that it would be an easy walkback
for Seth to make to say, when I told Gavin
to take the B out of his bio,
that doesn't constitute a termination,
at least in my mind, it might be in his.
But Rahim's right.
We don't know.
And I think Gavin made it clear that he doesn't know if he's even fired.
I think Seth made it abundantly clear yesterday, though, that he was no longer having Gavin work for the bee.
Yeah. So if that's the case, then that's the case. But if Seth came out and said, oh, no, I didn't mean to fire him, then what? We're back to Pax? Okay. And then there's going to be he's going to quit, right? Because he'd rather work with Rahim.
Well, Doc, the issue was yesterday, just such as in trouble. The issue was yesterday. You can essentially see yesterday's space as two paths.
In the first part, Heather is quite right.
He did say, it was obvious that he said basically that I can fire who I won,
and he essentially made it quite clear that he'd been fired.
But in the second part, in the second part of the space,
when he came back after his break, then he was kind of non-committal
and he was trying to say, like, I'm not sure, like, you know,
that tweet may not, may not be a firing.
So there was two aspects of the space yesterday.
Sorry, continue.
Yeah, I think it was unfortunate that Seth decided to come public on this
I think it made them look unprofessional.
I think it was unprofessional.
A number of people, including Justin, who likes DeSantis,
I'm assuming would tend toward that side of the equation here.
As pointed out that, you know, this shouldn't be problematic.
I think it's all going to go away, you know, frankly.
This is just a campaign season.
You think you will, though, Doc.
I mean, this is like, this is like the start of a war between the dissentist and Trump Cup.
That's why I see.
And like,
Well, that's not.
But even on top of that, there's, there is.
That's been going on in other places and other times for a long time.
And if there is a war between Trump and DeSantis, it's the war, in my opinion,
got in Texas over Ken Paxton and the Bush grandson in the fight over the Attorney General spot there.
That's a Bush versus DeSantha people down there.
Sure.
But I think it's this important avenue here, which is to explore, which is as Gavin is leaving, right, he starts dragging down DeSantis, claiming that it was DeSantis who triggered this, right?
Like it was Justinu Pichol, pulling the strings of the back end.
We don't know if DeSantis has done that or not. No one is asking.
Well, that's what I'm saying.
Yeah, yeah.
Gavin says that multiple times on his way out.
He says, this is a DeSantis hit job.
That DeSantis did this.
It was a DeSantis hit job.
All the people just ganged up on me and got me fired.
I'm like, what?
What are you talking about?
Well, he insulted Christina.
It's definitely, hold on.
It's definitely totally true.
It's definitely totally true.
Look who's carrying the water for Babylon B in this space.
It's the same to Santa's reply, guys.
So, I mean, I don't know why they feel like they need to do the PR on Babylon B.
If I wasn't defending it, it would be a echo chamber.
It would be an echo, like, I mean, that you're making an unfalsifiable argument because you basically say, like, because people are defending it, uh, that means that they're guilty.
But if we weren't defending it, then you'd just been being here saying.
Right.
Hey, guys, can I respond to this one?
Well, it's the same three guys.
But I'm just saying it's the same three guys.
That's because the, that's because the Sanchez campaign is not going to waste their time on this stuff.
It's a total side show that they had no part in.
It's, you know, it's like...
So you're volunteering?
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm volunteering.
That's what I've done.
How would you know that to be true, Max?
You're volunteering for the DeSandis campaign?
How would you know?
No, I'm volunteering to talk in a space.
How would you know that any of that's true?
How do you know that DeSantis didn't pick up the phone
because Christina was upset and asked Seth to fire him?
You don't know that.
I don't know that.
The burden of proof is not on Max to prove that that does not happen.
If anybody here, we're all speculating.
That's not how it works.
Speculation, there's no legal case here.
But even if it's not a legal case, you can't ask someone to prove something did not happen.
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
Well, you can't claim that it didn't happen then.
I'm not.
I'm saying bring evidence for the claims you make.
Hey, guys, can I say a few things?
You're missing the timeline.
Gabby and Wax first responded to Christina by saying what the F is your problem.
Then Seth told him what is yours.
Gavin answers back with an attitude, okay, to his boss and said,
because Seth said that, oh, well, I have an issue with the way you're speaking.
And he goes, well, I have an issue.
This is not how you speak to your boss, especially.
So, Evie, I'm going to ask you that, actually, and I want to ask Rahim that as well.
I mean, maybe I'm different, but when I look at that, I think, you know, Gavin was quite nice.
If my boss was speaking to me like that, I think I'd be a lot of hush.
That's not, that's rude.
Really.
well, I'd say his boss...
Yeah, Seth was...
Let's read it.
No, no.
Answering, your boss can be rude,
but you cannot answer to somebody that's spaying you like that.
When somebody's telling you,
I have a problem professionally.
Evie, Evie, Evie, let me read the text
because you're not read them accurately.
So let me read it, and then people can make a judgment.
So he wrote...
Can I finish my point about?
No, because you read the text and you didn't read them
in the entirety, and I think that's important.
So, um...
Let me just quickly read it.
So Gavin's wrote, hey, Christina Persho, what's your effing problem?
And that's because Christina Persho was liking Max's posts, which were accusing him having the fairest actions.
And then, Seth Dylan, then comes along and says to his employee, someone he's never interacted with, says, what's yours?
And then in a second message, he says, tweeting like this with the B in your bio doesn't work for me.
And Gavin then responded in a quote tweet, being accused of things that are false,
brackets and criminal, close brackets, doesn't work for me.
And then Seth Dillon wrote, you can take the B out of your bio now.
So that's what happened for you.
No, no, no.
Then Gavin answered to Jenna Ellis with a very, very ugly tweet, telling her you're fat
and you have been divorced three times.
That's a different interaction because...
You got to let me finish for a minute.
I know, but you're just,
just in for everything I'm saying.
That's fine, but you send false information,
but go out,
I'll correct it.
No, but like this,
he spoke very mean to Jenna Ellis
and then Seth said,
kindly remove the bee.
I would have done the same.
I would have fired.
It was,
for me, it wasn't a fire.
It was him telling,
kindly remove the bee
so people don't see you work for Babylon B.
If I am said,
now,
I will take a legal,
a legal firing in writing
in private and case closed,
and that is it.
So you have the timeline, mom.
Yeah, but if he was so worried about people.
That's incorrect, Evie.
No, let me be clear.
Let me be clear.
Let me be clear.
So what actually happened was, Evie, and again, this is like this feminist thing where
you ignore what the woman said.
But both him and Jenna Ellis were having a back and forth.
And what was the reason for the reply?
It was.
to Jenna Ellis.
I mean,
I need to get the tweet up now,
but she said something like,
I would never date you or something.
And then he goes,
well,
you're fat or something.
So again,
there was a back and forth
where she's saying things to him
and saying it back.
I understand liberals have this idea
that basically women can say what they want
and in response a man's not allowed.
But.
Evie's point, though,
is the timing.
Is she right that that happened
before Seth said,
remove it from your bio now?
Or is she wrong?
So the Jenna Ellis and,
and,
what's his name,
Gavin,
back and forth,
as far as it not happened before,
yeah.
It was before.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, but Gavin.
Can I also clarify that I didn't excuse him of criminal activity.
I also, I want to clarify, I didn't accuse him of criminal activity.
I said that his paycheck was paid for by Miles Guo, which is true.
Um, so that was, yeah, that's all I want to clarify on that.
What's wrong with that, I mean, there's a whole, you know, there's a whole conversation about
Miles growth that can be had.
Again, that was another bite that knocks on him had.
Yeah.
So again, this is the problem is you when people are taking snippets of different arguments.
So you had arguments with two or three different people at that point, but take snippets of his.
Yeah, but if Ron is Dantas takes money from people that funded Jeffrey Epstein, I mean, are you guys
going to start calling that out too?
Uh-huh.
Well, Heather, I mean, here's what happened was that Gavin told people, this is, Gavin told people to bombard me with tweets asking if I get paid by DeSantis or by anything related to DeSantis.
And then I said, ask Gavin if he's ever worked for a company.
Or no, I didn't say.
I said Gavin was paid by Miles Guo.
Ask him about that.
And that was the start of this whole thing.
Can I ask Max, Jason Miller was a CEO?
Can I ask Max?
What was the purpose of you asking him that and posting that stuff about Miles Glob?
What was the purpose? Okay. I mean, what was the purpose of him telling people to ask me the same question over and over again?
Can I answer the question? You're here. You're here so you can answer. Why did you post that information? What was your motivation?
The motivation was that, sure, Ben, you should answer this, Ben.
You'd be a good answer.
I mean, Rahim, I think you and I once met actually on the roof of Three Columbus Circle
at a getter party when I was working there, and you came.
Yes.
And that office space was Miles Gow's office space.
So just, you know, by way, background, in case you'd,
No, I'm not disputing that Guo was an investor in Getter and thing.
I'm asking Max.
He was the sole investor and Jason Miller misled us into thinking.
This is not about Jason Miller.
I'm talking about Gavin's employment here.
We're talking about what happened with Seth Dillett.
We're not talking about Jason Miller and Gutter and all of that.
I'm asking the question, what was Max's point in posting that information about Gavin?
And did he think Gavin was not allowed to respond?
Yeah, I'm glad to answer it.
Yeah, I'm glad to answer that.
So his purpose in asking me was to try to do this guilt by association or try to suggest I'm compromised in some way.
And then to make a rhetorical point, I said, look, what you're saying is false.
But what I'm saying here is true, doesn't guilt by association suck?
So you posted purposes of a criminal case to Gavin to make a juxtaposition over his alleged of your involvement in a campaign.
Max, Max, the people deserve to know.
Max didn't accuse Gavin of a crime.
He asked Gavin about whether he, no, no, he asked Gavin about whether he had taken money from Miles Guo.
Some people have taken money from Miles Guo not realizing.
who he was or that he was the sole investor in Getter.
Okay.
So, Max asking Gavin if he took money from Miles Guo,
either only in relation to working at Getter or otherwise,
is not an accusation of a crime.
In fact, it can be an accusation of being naive or a victim
or simply someone who happened to work.
Right, but it's an accusation, right?
You just said it's an accusation.
Ben, have you taken money from Miles Well?
I worked at Getter from February 24th.
22 to September 22, if you go on my profile, if you go on my profile, I walked into the FBI's New York field office because Getter had been breaking the law and I left by choice. In fact, Jason Miller, did you return your money? Did you return your salary?
I spent my salary to live.
The point is that he is.
Listen, here's my point.
Here's why I go down.
Without another job lined up.
Here's why I go down this rabbit hole, right?
Just to explain the logic of all of this to you.
Because what you've done is you've, you know, you just used the word, you know, made the accusation.
So what you've done is you've made an accusation.
of Gavin and you've expected him not to be able to respond to that
at the same time.
What's the accusation?
But that's just the point.
Ben just used the word accusation.
I think Gavin should have responded.
Yes.
Well, let requisition.
What accusation did I just make?
Wait, how do you use the word accusation?
Guys, you need to stop.
Let Rahim finish and then we'll let Ben or Max respond.
Max, let me go to hear him.
Thank you.
Listen, I understand everybody's going to get very heated about all of this.
But at the end of the day, what we're looking at here is the conflation between a business relationship
between Gavin and the Babylon B and Gavin's political work, which the Babylon B knew him for when he hired them.
Right? That's the crux of the matter here.
And the Christina Pouchard and the Jenna Ellis and all of the sort of periphery around that
is not going to have as great a weight on it as simply this.
Did they know, like, he was the young Republican chairman?
Yes. Did they know he tweeted the things he tweeted?
Yes.
You know, was there an employee handbook in place?
No. Was he ever given any instructions?
No. Was he ever told that his tweets are a problem?
No. Was he fired publicly on a Friday night by his employer who has 700,000 Twitter followers?
Maybe.
Well, exactly.
Sorry. Maybe. You're right. Thank you.
And that's the case.
Like, we all have our political differences here, right?
We could scream at each other about all of that all night long.
The point of this is, is it morally correct to do, to behave the way Seth behaved?
And my answer to that, honestly, is absolutely not.
I would never do it to somebody.
Can I ask you something, Rahim?
Always.
Always.
Thank you. Is it okay for the chairperson of New York City Young Republicans to bully constantly, especially women?
Well, that is up for the board, isn't it? That's the board of the New York Republican Club to decide for themselves.
That's the problem. He controls the board and nobody else can do anything about it.
You can say that about any company.
Can I please say something?
Just to respond to Rahim.
That's a lie. That's a lie. That's a lie.
Just to respond to Rahim, like Salaman said.
I'll let you respond real quick.
Yeah.
The question about why did Max ask Gavin what his financial relationship was with Getter?
You know, it is relevant.
If you're president of the New York Young Republicans Club and you're asked, okay, what was your relationship with this person who's now sitting in jail awaiting trial for 11 counts of fraud with a 190 year minimum sentence while the third co-conspirator is on the lamb three months later still?
You know, if...
If you're the head of the New York Young Republicans Club, you're taking it upon yourself to be in the public light and to be subject to some scrutiny about your political and financial relationships, right?
And Max simply asked, what was that relationship?
And Gavin never answered.
And he could have just killed the whole thing, Gavin, by answering it.
Maybe the answer is that there is nothing untoward.
And he just was working at Getter and that's the only time he ever got, you know, paid via Getter before its bank account with, you know, frozen in September in connection with the sub-charges.
But the point is, Gavin could have just answered and he didn't.
And that's a part of the problem.
Ben on that, though, that's fine.
And I don't think any of us have an issue in terms of the question.
But.
Similarly, Gavin has the opportunity to deal with that how he wants.
So when Max is making that statement,
and clearly he's making it to make an insinuation,
although, as you said, Gavin can't also answer it.
But when he's making it,
and then he's seeing people from Desanthus Camp like those tweets.
It's an objective question that you can ask of me too.
Ben, you know, let me finish.
You know, let me finish.
But when he sees someone, like Christina Persho,
start liking those tweets,
which are a charged question.
It's not out of, like, outside of a vacuum.
and so when he sees that
he also has the ability to say to Christina
like what the fuck's your problem which is what he did
and then what he shouldn't expect it for his
for his boss to basically jump in on him
and attack him as well
so that's the other perspective from it
that is a good perspective
Let me go to Nick.
One second,
Nick, we're going to come back to you.
Let me pass it over to Nick.
Nope, keep you going.
Oh, okay.
Sorry.
That's a good perspective, Suleiman.
But, you know, again, if we're all
largely conservatives here on this space,
I know, I'm making some questions.
No, there are Desantis people here, too.
no you no but in all seriousness
because someone captain's talking about how
basically a woman can be attack a man
for a man can attack a woman so maybe maybe there's
in all seriousness
can I respond to that as a woman
like I'm so sick and tired of people acting like
people like Jenna and all these other people
they're going around dishing out what they're getting
back so stop making them out to be these
but they're women
the women Heather
they're women though
Jenna like I'm a woman
woman, okay? Like, if you're going to dish something out, even as a woman, be ready to, like,
get it back. Some of these women have more testosterone than men, and they're on these social
media platforms, literally just like poking and poking and poking. And then somebody finally
snapped back. Some of them have penises too. Oh, you said that to a woman. And it's like, this woman is
more vulgar and more rude and disrespectful to everybody else. She's not a Proverbs 31 woman.
So stop acting like she's some victim because he defended himself against accusations.
Are you saying conservative moors don't apply if the other person is in the gutter?
Heather, what's the conservative more is?
Can I answer to a Heather as a woman?
Yeah, you can answer because if I'm going to put something out there, I'm going to let you respond without being like hashtag me too.
Thank you very much.
Do you know why I got involved into this?
Only because he has been attacking me for years and now they're women.
That's not because you're a woman, though.
No, it was, Rahim.
It's the quality.
So why isn't he attacking all the women around him then?
Why is it just new?
Only Rosie O'Donnell.
It's because you're a dumb man.
Does he hate his mother?
This is absolutely wrong.
He attacked me because he called an attack,
the chairwoman of New York City, GOP.
And it was her that hosted on a van for Christenone.
So he took me while I was preparing a fundraiser for them.
What does it have to do with you being a woman?
What does that have to do with you being a woman?
It seems like he's legally attacked.
No, it has to.
Because he trashes you as a woman, and that's what he used with Jenna Alice.
Do you hate him because he's a man?
Jenna Alice trashes so many people.
Can we stop using her as a female?
Why are we talking?
Why?
Well, why are we talking?
Why can I don't like Jane I Ellis.
You don't understand that.
So you're saying that people can't talk each other usually.
You're saying that they get that.
No, no joke.
I'm no joke.
I am part of the Trump debate.
I have not, I've never spoken to Jena in my life, never will.
Just so we're clear.
This is not about this on this.
You guys need to understand.
If we're doing a fight in here to defend Trump, this is, Gavin Wax is not it.
We need to stop dealing...
This is just your personal animosity.
Evie, this is just your personal animosity.
You have to let this go.
We're talking about the taste.
Hold on.
So all I'm hearing...
Okay.
All right.
So just guys...
Let it go.
One second, guys.
Look, I'm going to read Janus tweet out to him
because, again, this has been framed
in a specific manner.
So, Jenner says to him,
enough to know...
I don't want to date you, right?
So she attacks him saying like,
in response to what?
To what?
Yeah, I read before.
Yeah, okay, I'll read before.
That's fine.
Okay, so let's go even more further back.
So what happens is...
Okay, so, so Jenna Ellis starts and says not, so yeah,
Jenna Ellis actually attacks him first.
So he says, hey, Christina, what's your, I'm from?
On brand.
Yeah, and then Jenna Ellis comes in, and obviously women are allowed to.
Not even 48 hours since Percior has been unleashed to fact check lies about DeSantis
and she's already broke, Gavin.
Maybe calm down and take a break, my dude.
Not a good look for you or the Trump camp.
Okay.
And then Hero, what do you know about good looks?
Also, I'm on the campaign.
You guys are like an insufferable little clique.
And then, Shiro, enough to know I don't want to date you.
You've endorsed Trump.
You don't have to be on the campaign to reflect
poorly on your candidate or lash out at the people for doing their job,
speaking their opinion, or supporting their preferred candidate.
And then, no, sorry, and then he report, then he finally response.
So after he said about date you, then he responded, I'm happily dating Chelsea.
I have no interest in an overweight thrice divorcee.
Strange reply for you, but I guess every weird loser is collessing around the dissenters camp.
So you can see there is a back and forth.
They both sent mean things to each other.
And you have a scenario where Jenna Ellis attacked first.
But let me go to Nick first.
I'm going to go.
We're going to come back onto this, Ben.
Don't worry.
This is like we're going to talk about.
Absolutely.
We're going to be talking about this for hours now.
But I do want to bring in, we have Congressman George Santos up on stage actually right now.
I think it's your first time.
Dave.
And so we're...
We appreciate you coming by, but you've actually, we met each other. Actually, I'm sure you don't remember it. I was at an NYU New York Young Republicans Club meeting not too long ago. And you're actually pretty deeply involved in there as a New York congressman. So I'd love to bring you in and have you sort of give your synopsis on the situation and how you think this is going to play out.
Well, thanks for having me, Nick.
I do not remember, as you said, sorry about that.
But I want to say this because there's so many people on the stage that I know and whether I know in person or I follow or whatever.
But the reality is, this is my outlook at this.
We are wasting way too much time fighting each other.
And the Democrats are getting a pass, a free pass.
The enemy is Joe Biden, not Ron DeSantis or Donald Trump.
I happen to be a Trump supporter.
Evie and I, we go way back.
You know, we've had our differences, but, you know, we put them aside and we're adults.
I, the way I'm looking at this personally is very simple.
I don't know.
I think that whether Gavin was right or wrong, whether Seth was right or wrong,
I don't think this benefits the movement at all.
Look, I'll share this with you guys.
I drove from D.C. to New York.
And for at least three and a half hours of that drive yesterday,
I was listening to a space moderated by you guys about this topic.
And then there was...
Is that actually true? Did you actually do that?
Yeah, that's very true for whoever asked that.
So, and then on top of that,
You guys, there was a spinoff space earlier today with Rahim, and then there's a space again
about the same topic. This is going to play out whichever way it plays out. If Kevin Sue's Seth or
whatever, I mean, we're hearing all these things, but we have no control over this. I think we
should just get this energy and use it to campaign. Whether you support DeSantis, great governor,
I don't necessarily support him for president, but if he becomes that nominee, I'll support
it. I will go out and doork, whatever it is that's asked of me to do for any GOP nominee because it
the end of the day, the energy that we're putting into this, this trivial nonsense, is going to cost us at the end.
I mean, look, we can all agree. Nobody's going to say, nobody's proud of all of their conduct, their entire life.
Everybody makes mistakes. Now, whether you guys agree or disagree, that's whatever.
The reality here is, I don't see where Gavin did anything that Gavin hasn't done.
on Twitter in the last forever that I've known Gavin.
It was pretty consistent with Gavin's behavior.
Now, it is Seth's discretion to do whatever he wants.
I do believe it comes a little bit weak when you're saying,
oh, I heard Seth contradict himself at least three or four times saying it was pattern,
it was volume, it was in volume, was pattern, it was quality of content.
So it was just like all over the place.
I don't care.
I don't own the B.
I don't work at the B.
But the reality is is...
The amount of energy interjected into this topic now, it could be better applied.
There's a lot of talented people up here.
There's a lot of really capable people up here that can be doing a lot better with their time,
whether it's for Trump or for DeSantis.
So that's just my piece.
I don't have a horse in the race other than, you know, 45 will be 47.
And I'm sorry for the DeSanta supporters.
I just don't see a path for Iran right now.
Can I say one sentence only?
Yeah, go ahead, Avi.
George said it the best that in the end of the day, this is a war that shouldn't have happened.
You guys are dragging it, and in the end of the day, if Desantis wins the primary, what is everybody going to do?
Just stay home? No, we're not going to stay home.
Unfortunately, we're going to have to support him and make sure that we win 2024.
Right.
So this game about Gavin being attacked unfairly fired, we got to stop it.
That's the whole point.
No, no, no.
I disagree, Evie.
I don't know you.
I respect your opinion.
One second. I'm just going to ask some questions to Congressman Santos and please do go ahead.
Congressman Santos, I mean, we've got you on here and we do appreciate comments in terms of this specific incidents.
Generally speaking, obviously some people in the audience, we've got you on the space, so it is an opportunity to ask you some questions.
I mean, in terms of, I know you pleaded and not guilty to the federal indictment, what, I mean, what do you think about that case against you?
Um, Soleimani, this space is not for me to go address my, my indictment.
Um, I've been indicted, not convicted.
I'm not discussing my legal case, period.
So if this is a way for you to pivot as a journalist to try to get questions in, I mean,
it's, it's not space.
I came up here to voice my opinion on the topic of the room.
And that's it.
This isn't about me.
This is about the movement.
I'm here to literally weigh in on where I think the energy should be used.
This is war.
This is political warfare.
And we should be fighting against our enemies.
Our enemies are the liberal Democrats destroying our country.
Our enemies are the people trying to shove $4 trillion down the American people's throat on an increase in debt.
That is what we're up against.
Now, if you want to turn this around and ask me trivial questions, you should send them into my attorney.
And he might give you an answer.
George.
That's not what I'm here for.
With all due respect, and I understand what you're saying because I've echoed that sentiment plenty of times.
Part of the issue here is that this war that's being waged, we believe, is happening doing part to dissentistaffers and people within his camp spending money and sending money to call in political favors among the right, which so does dissension and causes things like this to go down.
Malcolm, Malcolm, Malcolm, I will give you credit.
I don't disagree with you.
I don't necessarily disagree with you.
I believe that this is being played on...
you know, period point blank of, uh, this is 2016 on steroids.
Do we were look, and I make fun of Gavin a lot on this.
And this is not an attack at Gavin.
I'm like, Gavin was on the Ted Cruz campaign in 16.
And I was a Trump supporter when Republicans made fun of me in New York State for being a Trump
supporter in 15 because he was a joke.
He was wasting our time, whatever and whatnot.
I was there for him.
I was there for him in 2020.
And I'm there for him again in 2024.
Right.
But that doesn't make anybody who supported Cruz or who supports DeSantis bad people.
I just don't like the tactics that the DeSantis camp is taking at this point.
Because I know it's a lot of backroom ended, you know, conniving, stabbing deals that are taking place.
I'm not blind or oblivious to it.
But the more oxygen you give to it and the more time you give to it, you give it more power and more energy.
He can call and do whatever he wants, right?
But if you're not giving it oxygen, it doesn't happen.
It doesn't manifest.
It's the power of manifestation.
It's a law of attraction.
If you allow that to become truth, you're going to attract it to you, and it's just going to become true.
And you're going to give it power.
Yeah, but I think it's bringing a lot of people out of the woodworks, which is why I don't think this is a waste of energy because it's bringing those people.
those nasty, vicious, vile people on the DeSantis side who do want to ruin someone's entire career, take away their livelihood.
This is nonsense.
Hold on.
You always interrupt me.
No, they want to ruin someone's livelihood and ability to provide for themselves.
And that is the kind of thing that people.
It's silly.
It's unfounded.
Can you?
That's ridiculous.
No, it's really not.
Okay, real quick.
The question is whether or not you believe that these people will mobilize at some point should Trump get nomination to turn tail or not.
That's really the question.
Look, I said this yesterday.
I'm old enough to remember when John Cardillo, which is somebody I like, was...
criticizing DeSantis on Twitter.
And he has an option to change his opinion.
And that's fine, right?
I remember a time, what,
2021 C-PAC in Orlando or wherever it was,
I think it was 2021 in Orlando,
where most of the people in this room
were all happy together
because we were all team MAG America first.
Was that before your mom died on 9-11?
Desantis is a product,
Desantis is a product of Donald Trump,
whether anybody agrees or disagrees.
He is.
I mean, yes.
And that's the case.
So, I mean, the point that I'm trying to make here is that...
The people who are playing this up, because like it or not, Babylon B is an important force in this culture war, basically in this political space, that sometimes people only see glimpses of, you know, what's going on in the political war because of the Babylon B. And if they're in the bag for a political, you know, for a campaign for DeSantis and they're not disclosing that, they're basically axing figures and creating a chilling effect.
based on the money that they're getting
from that campaign, it's going to have some huge
consequences, or I think, hey this is important.
Like, who are you accusing of being paid, Malcolm?
I'm accusing people under the dissenters.
Malcolm, here's the whole thing.
What you're saying, look, I don't know that to be true that the Babylon B is receiving
pay as of now, but there's, hold up, time out, time out.
There's going to be a quarterly filing, and on July 15th, we'll all see it, right?
As of now, nothing's been disclosed.
They're not legally obliged to disclose if they're receiving anything wrong.
right now right but july 15th when the fec deadlines the federal fec deadlines are due we'll all go
ahead and we'll come and we'll call their bullshit out and we'll say oh look you lied to everybody
and that's going to that's going to take a toll on there on your subscription base and and then there'll be
light shed on there you know nothing that's done in the political realm is kept in the dark for too
long right well and also the the baby like that was disclosed i mean people keep cropping out the dates
you know
you know who knows why it was in 2021 it was right that was an old expenditure that a lot of
people do a lot of campaigns engage in it it's whatever my point my point here that's not that's not
right congressman santos because yesterday someone did provide the receipts there was actually
payments open till late 2022 from from a donation from yeah laura provided those
hold on all right but was there was
Was this directly from the campaign?
So there was, in March 2020, again, this is from the top of my head.
In March 22, there was payments made to Babylon B.
In October or November 22, there was payments made from Seth Dillon to the dissent.
That's why it's stupid that we're having the conversation.
Can you put it on the Gumbl Tron, please?
Because clearly they've given money and they're getting.
I'm confused.
Keep us all the money.
Hold on, Salomon, you're saying Seth Dillon paid the DeSantis campaign?
I'm not following.
Yes, Seth Gillen paid $40,000 within the last six months, the DeSantis pack that was renamed, according to Laura Lumer.
So was it back in October of 2022, the receipts she provided showed that,
Seth gave $40,000.
Yeah, but that's for mayor's campaign, guys.
But sounds like a swan up to me.
But hold on, but why would Seth pay the pack and not the pack pay Seth?
I'm not understanding.
Is he donated to the pack?
Like, he did actually get to receiving money from them as well.
And one of the things Laura said she was going to release was text messages basically from Seth,
admitting that he was hired by the DeSantis people to quote unquote, like, ripe
write what is it right speeches yeah yeah i heard her i heard her god did she release those already
this is very quiet right now let me let me explain so congressman santa it's suleiman so in terms of
yesterday so there was two types of payments the first was payments made to baby and that happened as
late as march twenty twenty two at least
and Laura Luma did provide me with the text messages,
which corroborate that they were first speech writing.
In terms of separate to that,
Seth Dillon himself donated $40,000 as late as October 2022.
All of this is public information.
But it's fine.
He donated to the governors.
Like, I mean, Seth was on here for how long last night?
He said he supported the...
election of Trump in 2020 and he's the election of DeSantis in 2022. The fact that he donated,
like, this is so silly. He donated to a governor.
Hold on. Malcolm, give me one second. Just real quick. So there's a donation of $40,000
from Seth Dillon to the DeSantis camp in 2022 in the third quarter. Is that what I understood?
Yeah.
So, LeBan, that's what, that's what, like, I heard him say it.
So that's very simple.
The Sanchez.
Yeah, but DeSantis was on the ballot for governor.
So, so a donor gave him money.
I don't see this as problematic, guys.
The election was in November.
The problem is that you have Laura Lumer.
who just hates DeSantis, and so anything that anyone has ever said positively about DeSantis makes a suspect.
I mean, this is someone who accused Casey DeSantis of lying about cancer and accused Ron DeSantis of murdering his sister.
Like, we need to not take Laura Lumer seriously.
No, no, no, look.
Laura, she did.
That she did.
Okay, real quick.
Real quick.
We didn't spread it, Laura, just because, you know, look, if we're, I don't know that to be true that.
She accused him of killing her sister.
I've never heard that.
This is the first I hear it.
But Laura's been right on a lot of stuff.
And look,
and Laura's no bad at mine and she's attacked me plenty,
which is fine.
But what I'm trying to say is here,
she's been right on a lot of things.
Yeah.
She's called people on their bullshit a lot of times.
So we can't just discredit her point blank, right?
We need to give credit where creditors do.
Now, she discredits herself easily every day.
Okay, Justin.
Bar the side.
That was a winning thing here.
Go ahead.
Okay.
One second, one second. Congressman Santos, one thing about Twitter spaces is it's an open forum, so we do appreciate you coming on here.
We had Congressman, we had Matt Gaze on here, and he essentially was asked a question from a variety of people, both conservatives and liberals.
They were very important questions. And that's the reason for the Twitter spaces. So we do appreciate you being on here to ask,
to receive questions from people.
One of the things that was mentioned on this space.
Well,
what do they do that,
Simey, man.
I just want to say,
I just want to mention everybody.
If you do have a question
or a comment for Congressman Santos,
put it down in the bottom right-hand corner,
and I'll be going through him,
going through them shortly.
And so let me go ahead and take back over.
Yeah, one thing that was mentioned on the space, and it will be played back on the recording.
I don't want to give you an opportunity to respond is about an well-known accusation about your comment about your mother dying on 9-11.
So I want to give you an opportunity to respond to that.
Look, I never said, look, I'm going to answer this once and that's it.
And I've answered this in the media before.
I never said my mom died in 9-11.
I never said the words, my mother died on 9-11, period.
Those words never came out of my mouth.
uh and and i'm just going to move on from that because whatever the media twists and turns
there was a comment in a tweet uh
of somebody making fun of 9-11, and I said the event of 9-11 claimed my mother's life,
but it wasn't that she died on 9-11.
My mother died in December of 2016, and that's very openly public record.
But again, I'm not going to get into the trivial nonsense of this.
My point being here is this is about 2024.
This is about the presidency of the United States.
This is about Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis, which I happen to support Ron DeSantis as a governor for Florida, where I think he is much needed and where I happen to support Donald Trump to go ahead and actually show the American people.
He not only won 2020, but he's going to win 2024 again and settle the score once for all.
Because if there's ever been a president with buyer's remorse attached to their name, it is Joseph R. Biden.
Period. The American people say it. CNN can't get a poll that proves otherwise, and that's
CNN. So the reality is, is we need to focus all this nonsense energy, all this amount of brain
trust that's in this room right now, which is probably some of the most brilliant people out
there politically, and work on making that the goal. Whether you believe Drona Santis is the guy,
you should work on that and not work on fighting your peers. Because after
After the primary is over, we're all going to have to work together.
That's just how the nature is.
And the sad part is most of you guys all interfighting with each other.
You're all friends.
You're just disagreeing on this one and you're making it a blood feud for no absolute reason.
The issue is, though, this is a major issue because when you look at who's going to get elected, whether it's Trump or there's going to be a major, there is going to be some differences in policy and so on and so forth.
My question to you is, we saw the announcement of DeSantis recently on Twitter Spaces.
What was your thought about how he came across in the announcement and him announcing on Twitter Spaces?
Sorry, go ahead.
Okay.
I know what he was trying to do.
He was trying to cater to a younger audience, which is smart, right?
He was trying to cater to a social media audience,
which is very smart on his part, but the execution of it was terrible.
Then you put yourself in a Twitter space with two billionaires.
And one of the billionaires makes it about him, Elon, who happens to own the platform, right?
And then he, in mid-space of those sorry guys, you had to bring David on, because I just couldn't do it on my platform because it just drove way too much interest, meaning the 600,000 plus people who joined the original space weren't there for DeSantis.
They were there for Elon.
Right.
That's what I understood from Elon's interpretation of that.
So the reality is, is DeSantis could have done this in a much better way, cleaner way.
It would have been a lot better.
I understand what he was trying to do.
I don't necessarily think it landed.
It was glitchy.
It was delayed.
All of these other issues.
But at the end of the day, look.
He thinks he's doing the best he can and he's fighting as strong as he can to get the nomination.
God bless him.
He's a Republican.
You know, as Ronald Reagan said, Dahl shall not speak ill of your Republican because once they be become if they, if they become the nominee, then, you know, you don't want to make it difficult for you to have to support them.
Right.
Right.
But the reality, the reality here is in my opinion and that's, you know, that's just my opinion.
We need a shift of energy here and just forget about this and massive divisiveness that's taking place.
Dude, I've never seen a primary so early, so divisive like this one right now.
And it's really toxic.
And I'm just going to put it out there.
It's coming, in my opinion, mainly from Team DeSantis, but I'm not going to say that Team Trump guys are also innocent. But the attackers have been for months now, Team Desanth. That's how I view it, Max. You can disagree. That's how I'm looking at it.
I wanted to add one thing.
Would you say when it was three days before the, uh, the, uh, the 22 elections and the President
Trump was doing a rally in Pennsylvania that was ostensibly for, um, Dr.
Oz and, uh, Doug Mastrano, was it appropriate for him to attack the governor of Florida
who was running for re-election three days?
Absolutely not.
And I criticized him then.
I thought it was stupid.
Why would, why would he- And when was the first time that, that Governor DeSantis
attacked Trump?
I'm not saying Governor DeSantis.
I didn't.
Part, let me, let me make sure I make that clear.
I'm not saying this is Trump or DeSantis.
I'm, and Trump did attack DeSantis when he said something up to the long of porn stars or something like that earlier this year.
He did throw shade at Trump at that point.
So let's not act like DeSantis is squishy cleaner because he does throw a lot of shade.
I think Paul, I think by, I'm, well, love your work, Sanchez, and I'm very, um, awesome, happy you have you on the space.
You know, it's great.
But I think the issue, though, with, what I saw the, with, um,
but i guess the whole the santa's issue was just the action of baby and i guess like an enforcement
and when you see someone who is a trump person not a trump personality but says pro trump things on
twitter um who tries defending himself um from a person within the santa's camp and gets his
position taken away that kind of sparked a lot of uh
get concerned about that and kind of for us for public people who don't know internal information or anything kind of look like a a blatant like you know kind of like attack was those unjust
No, look, the optics of it was terrible.
The perception of it was terrible.
Seth is going to have to do a whole lot of PR crisis PR, in my opinion, right?
It didn't look good.
It didn't look good.
And quite frankly, I joked and Vish is here.
I joked a fish.
I'm like, hey, Gavin is probably, it probably holds the record of the first person to ever be fired on Twitter.
Which I thought was crazy.
It's funny.
Yeah.
I'm not laughing at him.
I'm just laughing at the fact that I think he was the first person ever to be fired on Twitter, which sucks, you know.
But I guess, you know, you raised to that level of a visible profile that happens.
But the reality is I think that the whole thing was poorly conducted.
But again, I think Seth said it better.
This.
is a matter of a private employer making a decision about his company. Now, the optics of it,
there are going to be repercussions. And I think Seth is going to have to work really hard to
draw distinct, clear lines and make sure that he is forthcoming with any involvement he has
into the Sanchez camp to make sure that when those filings on July 15 come out on the FEC website,
don't reveal anything that corroborate.
This could have well been a political attack or a canceling or a silencing of a political opposition.
So that's just, you know, that's all I can say.
I don't know anything.
I have no horse in the game.
And I just wish everybody well.
And I just, I don't want to see the Babylon B canceled.
I don't want to see Gavin cancel.
I just, you know, quite frankly, want to see us as conservatives just, you know, fighting this on policy.
Look, Trump put out probably some of the most competitive Republican conservative policies for his 2024 elections.
A guy wants to create six new freaking cities in the country, you know.
And I think DeSantis had a big opportunity.
And one of my biggest criticism of his announcement was the border is broken.
The border is bad.
I will fix that.
Day one. Okay, how will you fix that was what he missed, right? I didn't get a, what will you do different policy wise to fix the border? I've been to the border multiple times and I've seen how shit of a place it is and a humanitarian crisis that's taking place down there. I don't like, like,
And I get clocked a lot from people when I say I speak in a humane way about migrants.
I'm like, guys, at the end of the day, yeah, I get it.
Most people don't want them here on the Conservative Party.
And I get that.
It's an invasion of our sovereignty.
But these are human beings.
I don't like turning on the TV and seeing a box truck full of people
killed because they were being smuggled or moms and babies floating upside down in the real grand.
That's a tragedy.
Every life loss is a tragedy, period.
Right.
So this is a policy issue that DeSantis could have built his entire campaign on and outsmarted Trump based on good policies.
And he failed.
And that's why I believe Trump still with his old policies, if he puts them all back into effect.
And if we keep Congress, we will have a better protected border.
Now, that's my opinion.
Okay.
subject interpretation of everyone else who heard his announcement, which again, I know the talking
points. Trust me. I have to dish them out every day. I'm in Congressman, actually, can I ask you a
question specifically on the border? And then there's another political question because I'm somebody
who covers essentially cartels. And I know in the Republican debate, there's a lot of
discussion of like viewing cartels as a as a national security threat would you vote for an
authorization of military force against the cartel and what do you believe the republican nominee's
position should be on that and then the second question i have on the political side is if desantis
is the nominee we've heard a lot of trump supporters say they would not vote for him or they're very
hesitant to even public announce supporting him if he's the nominee how do you view your role in in
trying to bridge that gap based on what you said earlier
Well, look, what I'll say is on the cartels, I've put a bill on the, I've introduced a bill to designate them terrorist organizations to expand the scope of the FBI and our intelligence and our military in order to tackle the cartels.
Because if you designate them a terrorist organization, you just expand and you broaden the scope of action that can be taken against them.
And this is exactly what they are.
They're terrorist organizations and cells in all of Latin and South and Central America.
On the latter question is,
If DeSantis by some holy Mary of a miracle, and if they try to Bernie Sanders DeSantis into the nominee, which I highly see impossible on our side of the aisle, based on the polling right now and the numbers, I know the primary is a long time away.
And polls right now are just a snapshot of how people feel now.
I get that.
But if DeSantis becomes the nominee, of course I'm going to support him.
Of course I'm going to work as hard as I can to...
to sway people and say, hey, like, look, Trump fought it fair and square.
It just didn't land for him.
And this is our guy.
And we're going to have to vote for him because not voting for him.
The alternative is you're reelecting Joe fucking Biden.
That's what you need to look at this.
That's the way you need to look at it.
That is exactly what happens.
If you don't elect a Republican, you get four more ears of the destructive Biden administration agenda with hyena Kamala Harris laughing at everything uncontrollably and doing absolutely nothing from the stance points of the vice president of the United States.
This is exactly what we're up against.
We're up against, this is political war.
This is war for the survival of this country.
Period. Congress, Massantis, I wanted to ask you about your re-election prospects in 2024,
and whether you're speaking to Trump or he's basically endorsing you
and why you've not received support from the House Republican caucus.
Well, look, let's put it this way, Soleimani.
Is it... I'm sorry, am I mispronouncing your name?
Yeah, no worries. A lot of Republicans do it. It's Suleiman.
Suleiman. Sorry about that. So Silemon...
I got to Congress on my own accords.
I didn't get to Congress with the help of special interests.
I didn't get to Congress with the help of Super PACs.
I didn't get to Congress with the help of the CLF or any of that, right?
I raised hard dollars into the campaign and got elected, period.
I'll do it again.
I'll do it again.
and I'll continuously do it again because then that means I don't have a price tag hanging off my ear
that every time something needs to be done, they go and say, hey, remember this price tag.
You have to do this for us.
So I owe nobody, nobody any favors.
So I'll continue to run for office that way.
I am a man of agency and I am able to take the votes that I want to take that I believe reflect my beliefs
and the beliefs that my constituents want, which is conservative.
You know, they had for 20 years, Democrats representing the third district of New York,
I ran on an agenda that called abortion barbaric and I got elected and I swung a Biden plus 10 seat
and I won it by 8.5.
So enough of the, oh, Santos sits in a 10 plus Biden seat.
No, I sit in an 8.5, 18.5 swing Santos seat.
So I will vote conservative through and through on what I believe is best for our country and I
will run for reelection on those same parameters.
Do you have any comment on what's pinned to the top of this chat?
I don't know what's pinned to the top of this chat.
About your support of, you know, Miles Guo, Vish, and New York Young Republicans and Gavin Wax and sort of the interrelations between those things.
If you don't have a comment on it, that's fine.
But I wanted to put it on top here so people can see what I'm asking you.
I don't see it.
I don't see it.
It's too high school for your consideration.
It's not serious.
So I don't see it.
I'll just ask the question.
It's pinned to the top of the chat, but you might not be able to see it.
So Congressman Santos, basically my question is, you know, you've come out as saying that, you know, the U.S. government should free Miles Guo, who was arrested on a billion dollars of frauds.
And you haven't commented on that, you know, in this chat.
I'll comment on that for you real.
quick, Ben, here's the reality. Miles Gould is being held, and this is, I'm not saying Miles
goal is innocent, right? I've never met Miles Gow, period. So I had enough, I had enough
constituents come into my office and I represent the district that has a 17% Asian American constituency.
I had enough constituents come into my office to make this a stink and to write letters
and to go on my website and leave official communication.
We looked into the issue.
My point here is not, I'm not defending Miles Guo.
I'm not the judge.
I'm not the jury.
I don't make that decision.
But he's being held on no bail for a white collar crime because he's a flight risk.
But it's very hard for me to accept that when two CCP agents operating on an illegal
police station inside of New York City were released on $25,000 bail each when they're active.
They're active.
Congressman Santos, one of the co-conspirators who was also charged has been running from the U.S. government for over two months.
They were charged March 15th. It's now May 28th.
William G., last name spelled J.E., was charged at the same times as Miles Guo, and he has not been seen in nearly...
Three months.
That's why Miles Gow's a flight risk
because they are co-conspirators
and one of them is missing.
Okay, so you're saying,
so you're saying that Miles Gros is now responsible
for another individual's actions.
They were joint co-conspirators jointly charged with 11 of the same 12 crimes.
But you're making an affirmation.
He hasn't been convicted of that.
These are indictments or mere formal accusations.
Understood.
But at the same time, requesting bail on this number of charges.
Ben, let him answer.
So go ahead, Congressman.
Ben, you can't expect...
You cannot expect someone else to be held at the same standards because of another individual's poor choices and personal absence.
That's not the only reason that Miles Guo was denied bail.
The government put out, I think, a 20-page letter explaining its decision to not have him freed on bail.
And track him.
Right. Just before we let, Congressman.
He's pretty made off. He was charged for fuck sake.
Yeah. So just before we let Congressman Santos go, we do appreciate time. One last question what we had was, we're seeing that there's basically some form of agreement in terms of the debt deal. There is a number of Republicans who have concerns about the parameters of that deal and they feel like maybe McCarthy sold out. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Look, I'm not going to criticize the deal.
I have not finished reading the bill.
The bill text is expansive and elaborate, and it's all about interpretation and reading it.
I will have a position on it once I'm done with it.
I will say this.
After the call yesterday, I was not very satisfied that it seemed that we made most of the
confessions, but I could be wrong.
I could have misunderstood what was being sold to me during the call, but...
I want to make a responsible, essentially, assessment of this.
And I'll address everybody on this later in the week when we're done and I've made my decision.
Look, just I wasn't happy with the original bill.
And I didn't think it was conservative enough when we voted on it.
But I voted for that bill last minute to give the speaker the ability to go to the table and remind Joe Biden, we're negotiating.
You have no option.
Right.
for it to come back and it feels a little lopsided like we're not really getting anything out of it.
I don't know. I want to read it. Look, I'm happy work requirements are there. That was one of the first things that I dug my heels in and I said, look, work requirements have to come back, period.
And that's a Democrat policy from Bill Clinton. So I'm not going to even go expand too much on that. But I will definitely follow up.
and you guys will see updates on Twitter
or wherever the updates end up.
But with that said,
I want to thank you guys for letting me join the space.
This isn't, I just want to put this very clear.
DeSantis is not my enemy.
He's my adversary in a primary.
And I will treat him in his camp that way, respectfully.
Respectfully speaking, I think policy is what's going to win this.
And I think Trump's on the winning side of the policy because he's done this for four years.
He has the experience and he knows what he's doing.
He can do it again.
He ran this country like a business.
I think DeSantis runs Florida well like a politician.
I don't think he's, I think he should just take a seat.
and perhaps work with POTUS,
who gave him the ability to be governor of Florida,
because without Trump, there would be no governor Ronda Santos.
And anybody who disagrees with that
is just being a hypocrite and not accepting the facts,
the...
Those are facts.
And I think DeSantis is a great guy.
I don't dislike the man.
I think his wife is stellar.
Whichever way we end up, we go back to having a fabulous first lady again, whether it's
Casey, the Santis, or Melania Trump.
So with that said, I want to thank you all.
And just remember, you're all on the same side and you're all friends at the end of the day.
And you're going to live to regret a lot of the things you guys are going back and forth about.
But thank you very much, everybody.
So, Congressman, thank you so much for coming up.
We do appreciate that.
I do want to tell the audience real quick,
Soleiman, Mario, and I will be doing a short, small, personal space
for subscribers only to Mario directly after this space.
We're going to have audience members up on stage.
not people that have been pre-invited or anything like that.
Because we want to be able to talk to you guys.
And, you know, we might start doing a short one after every space that we do.
So, but we're going to try it out a little bit.
We encourage you to come.
You got to click on Mario's profile and hit that subscribe button.
It's only $1, right?
Because Mario set the wrong price on accident.
So may as well take advantage of it before he figures out how to lift the price.
I'm going to pivot just a little bit now.
You've also subscribed.
I'm on you, Nick?
I did subscribe.
Yep.
I've been waiting.
We crowdfunded my $1 last time.
And then before I forget, before I move on here,
I want to sell everybody, bottom right hand corner,
ask some questions.
We asked some questions to George Santos,
Congressman George Santos as well.
And so we're definitely going through those.
Tira, this is kind of right up your alley.
Because one of the arguments that we have seen,
especially today,
as this situation with the Babylon B,
firing a pro-Trump vice president,
evolves is now we're starting to talk about the legal aspects of this and that you know there
might be some litigation maybe there will be you know wrongful termination uh lawsuit filed
potentially we don't know it's all speculation but is that something that is uh you know
something that would be reasonable was that a long shot you know what are your thoughts
florida is where i believe the hiring was done is an at-will state what
What that normally means is you can fire anyone for any reason as long as it's not on the basis of something that is a protected class in effect, not on a basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
Okay.
So because of that, no matter what.
Mr. Dillon actually did, it's going to be really hard to have a, unless there's something I'm
missing here, and unless, you know, Gavin Max has one of those claims, which I'm not aware of,
it's going to be hard for him to do a wrongful termination suit. The fact that it was done on Twitter is
unfortunate and probably not very professional,
but I don't think that really matters.
Moreover, I should point out,
because I was researching this,
because I remember,
did Elon Musk fire,
well, somebody claimed he fired
some guy named Froenhopper via tweet.
So I think this is maybe not the first time it's happened.
Certainly, I don't want to,
I don't want to say that
because I'm sure someone's been fired by tweet before.
Well, but there isn't the difference on that?
Because we're talking about a political situation now,
somebody that was expressing,
you know,
disgust
Gavin was expressing disgust about one of DeSantis's senior advisors. Does that not make it a little bit
different? Because now it's looking like a politically charged issue? No, because once again,
what is he, you know, is he being fired? If you're saying he's being fired because of his political
speech, I think that'd be a hard one to show. And I'm not even sure that would really impact the
wrongful termination. So truthfully, because that's not just because you support someone is not
protection, as it were.
Doc had raised an issue, and I don't actually see this, but I haven't seen enough of the
tweets.
He had said, slander libel.
I don't think so based upon the limited number of tweets that I've seen, but maybe he said
other things that, you know, rise to the level, but I'm not seeing that either.
He said, you cursed, more or less.
You know, I don't like what you said.
And so, you know, take the B out of your bio, right?
and there are other tweets,
but I'm not aware that anything would rise
to actually a level that would allow for any sort of loss.
No, look, it's America.
Anybody can sue about anything.
Oh, final point.
However, there is one thing at the at-will thing.
If there was some sort of employment contract...
which I don't think there was based on everything everyone's been saying.
It's possible that there were parameters for which you could not be fired,
but I don't think that existed in this case. Okay.
So I don't see a wrongful termination suit. I don't see slander or liable unless there's stuff I'm missing and it's entirely possible.
And I'm not sure just, I mean, what you're saying is really speculative he was fired because he supported X or whatever.
hard hard to prove especially on the basis of what we've seen written down in tweets thanks
okay but does it make any sort of difference that there was no and we're again we're going
based off of what gavin said uh in a in an earlier twitter space today where he said that
there was no employment contract he never received anything he also has never received a
termination letter uh you know so does any of that make any sort of difference
Not an employment contract, look, it might, Doc had mentioned best practices, et cetera, that's fine, but you don't need, you don't need to have parameters, you don't need to have guidelines, you don't have been given anything. Many companies don't have anything like that. Should an employment contract. Do you know that, but do you know that about Florida? I was looking different states have different schemas. Florida might very well require that. Like a parole evidence rule for employment contracts.
No, not like that. I'm not no. I mean, I read the Florida stuff. I don't see any requirement there, Doc, but I'm happy to be corrected by anyone who might know more. I haven't seen that as a requirement. It's at will. And, you know, once again, in an at will state, many states are at will. Unless it's, you know, for one of the prohibited reasons, you can just sort of fire people. We all know this, right? That
that's, you know, whether fortunately or not, depending on who you are, that's sort of how it works.
So you can hire a lawyer and you can try and find some rationale, but I don't know, Doc.
I mean, I've never heard that that's required.
I agree with you.
I didn't see this as a legal case, honestly.
But that doesn't mean people are going to sue, and it doesn't mean you can't find lawyers that'll make an argument.
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, my final point is going to be, we're in America.
Everybody can sue for anything.
And so there might be a lawsuit, but I don't see it as being necessarily successful.
So, Max, I want to go to you.
And where we stopped off, or Ben, sorry, let me go to Ben first.
Ben, where we stopped off was, you know, I interrupted you because we had Congressman Santos on.
And we were talking about the text messages and more specifically about his back and forth.
So this is with, you know, Gavin and Seth Dillon.
So you were going to respond, so I just want to give you a chance to do, sir?
Okay.
I'm sorry. I don't actually, uh, I don't actually remember me saying anything about text messages between Gavin and...
Sorry, sorry. That's the first I'm sharing with that. I meant the tweets. I meant the tweet. Sorry.
Oh, uh, yeah. So I think, I think that was just really us talking about the timing of, uh, you know, Seth saying, you know, you can remove it from your bio. Um,
And talking about how the woman who's, I think she's, oh, Evie, she's still on the stage was, you know, was right to be bringing up the fact that even though, yes, this, you know, the conversation with Jenna was a separate conversation.
The timing does show that there were multiple things going on prior to the quote unquote, you know, firing.
But then separately was the whole fact that as Max has already brought up and I don't think we have to go into it more,
was that this really did seem to stem from these concerns that Max had raised or these questions he had asked that Gavin didn't respond to.
It seemed like things got diverted to being about, you know, Christina and about the campaign and that's not really what was going on.
But that was all.
Okay, so let me go to, Chief. Chief.
I mean, I'm looking at this, and you've got a scenario where Gavin's essentially debating a few people at the same time.
He's getting attacked essentially by the dissent.
He's having a debate with Max at the same time.
He's having a debate with Jenna Ellis.
And then his boss comes in and essentially attacks him.
Do you think, obviously, I know you think that what the boss did was unacceptable.
So I guess I'll let you say that.
But then separate to that, do you think his response was appropriate, Chief?
Um, so are you talking about the response of how, I guess, Gavin quote.
Yeah, yeah, so let me read it. So Gavin says, hey, Christina Persia, what's your FN problem?
And then Seth Dillon responds and says, what's yours? And then another tweet, he says,
tweets like this when the B is in your bio doesn't work for me.
And then Gavin responds and says, being accused of things that are false,
And criminal doesn't work for me.
And then Seth Dillon replies, you can take the beat out of your bio.
Yeah.
So my, I guess, my take on this.
So the first one, when he said, what's your effing problem?
Politics is a blood sport.
And I believe that from, you know, I mean, people can say curse words or curse words.
I personally don't curse.
And I haven't cursed in a very long time.
But I don't think that in itself is,
and is a,
you know,
thing that I have read,
you know,
some red flag over.
I mean,
I think people curse in politics.
And I think that some people,
it's more of a euphemism,
I think in that sense,
like,
you know,
getting annoyed by,
people liking a tweet that he thought was, you know, kind of insinuating some sort of, you know, some sort of association with a, with a person that has been like not convicted, but just, you know, accused of things.
And then when he quote tweet his boss after this, I think he was just angry because his boss should have...
message him privately, he could have done it very discreetly, but chose he opined to go,
he chose to go onto Twitter and publicly reply saying this. So if you look at it from Gavin's
perspective, he's been attacked by people who like tweets that he doesn't like. And then he has
his own boss, who should be on his side saying in a comment,
this is this is not correct or you know you i don't like this behavior so you know whether he was i
think that he was um you know i i probably wouldn't have quote tweeted um the boss but doesn't
really you know um matter though i think that his no matter what any response or unresponses be
like you don't talk about you know i mean the boss said something about you or saying i don't like
the tone he wanted to defend himself and i think either way it's appropriate i mean i i i
The boss did inappropriate thing first, basically.
And I think the employee, Gavin, there,
but he had to defend himself.
And Seth has in the past said,
if you're worried about tweeting something, you know, do it anyway.
So I think regardless, there was, at a very minimum,
inappropriate action from,
from Seth on that.
I've got a question whether euphemisms okay to use politics is full of people who use
euphemisms and and curses and slurs or whatever you want to, you know, call it.
The quote tweet, you know, you can say it's not appropriate.
That's fine.
I think that it was a response to an inappropriate tweet from a boss.
So that's my take, but the bottom line is an employer should have your back.
And I know there are some bad employers out there, but I think the majority of them should at least strive to have their back.
And it's saying it's simple as a public tweet.
I think it's pretty clear that was in the wrong.
And you go objectively, look at this, whether pro-osantis or anti-a-santis.
You can just look at that and say, an employer shouldn't be replying to you and piling on when you're being attacked.
Or how about you take a second to actually reach out to the employee privately and try to diffuse the situation rather than escalate it?
Let me go to Max. Before I do Max, I mean, me, myself.
If, I'll be honest, if Mario, if Mario, if Mario,
you're going to max like three times before you come to me. Come on.
Oh, no, it's because I'm going to like one Trump then one dissent.
But you also have to call him Solomon first.
I know. If you get my name right, then I...
How do you say it? Say it, say right.
Just Soleiman. There's no eye in it.
You just created an extra idea.
So, Solomon.
Yeah, yeah. But anyway, let me go to, because yesterday I had a lot of complaints that the
dissantis people didn't get enough chance.
So I'm trying to balance out going one, one.
So I will come to you after Mac.
and Max, I mean, if this was me
and let's say Mario had done that response
my response would be much more aggressive
like why is this guy talking to me and calling me out?
I would just smash him.
I think if anything, Gavin was being too soft
but let me see your thoughts, Max.
You want my thoughts on whether Gavin was being too soft to like...
No, no. So first of all, let me ask you two questions, though.
So was it appropriate for Seth to call him out like that and basically attack him?
And then was it appropriate for Gavin and his response to Seth?
I don't really know about that first question.
You know, it's a very public...
Uh, it's very public job.
I know you want to back him off, but generally, like, for both questions.
Would I, would I, would I do it?
Like, probably not, but it's not really.
Do you think both are appropriate?
Hmm, I don't know.
I mean, like I said, like, it's a very public thing and he's doing a tweet and, you know,
I guess he could have DM'd him, but that's sort of secondary.
Like, what he did was, I mean, what Gavin did was more, was more aggressive.
Um, and I mean, I think I want to, I want to make the bigger point that, like,
This whole discussion is pretty exhausting.
We spent about two days on someone getting fired because his boss said, believed, you know, whether you're with it or not, his boss believed that he was making an ass himself online and embarrassing his employer.
And, you know, at some point we need to...
Like, talk about more important.
Representative Santos.
I know you can.
One second, one second.
One second, one second.
Actually, go ahead, Mish.
Go on.
Yeah, no.
I mean, I want to point out the tweet on the Jumbotron right now
trying to make an accusation, like some conspiratorial accusation,
about Guo's involvement.
My name is in that tweet.
So, like, I want to ask right now.
I think that's fair for you to talk about it.
Yeah.
So what's the deal, Ben?
Like, what are you actually accusing us of?
So this is exactly the point I was making earlier, right?
That Max raised this question about, you know, Miles Guo and Gavin.
Okay, Miles Guo, very rich Chinese expat, you know, whatever,
Asai Lee, now we'll.
Now you've been paid by this.
Yeah, yeah.
But most people don't know the story, so that's why I was just explaining quickly.
But the point is, Max brought it up.
Gavin never responded.
I think...
He should have, right?
And he didn't.
Whether he responds or not.
Right, and that's fine.
That's fine.
You can take that position.
You can take that position.
And then Congressman Santos comes up tonight, right?
And Congressman Santos has also been, you know, very much criticizing the fact that Guo has been arrested and is, you know, in jail, denies bail, etc.
Again, you don't have to agree.
You're right.
It is his prerogative.
But the point is...
When we're having conversations about these people, I think it's reasonable to talk about the relations between them.
And then you have an opportunity to speak back about it.
But I think it's sometimes deceptive when there's a story like this or relationships like this.
And some people like me or like you know about them.
And other people on the space don't know that these things are related.
They don't know that Congressman Santos went to Miles Gow's Mansion in New Jersey,
you know, just, you know, a month and a half ago
and recorded videos.
Wait, why are you saying?
That's fine. That's fine. It's got me. He's never met Miles Guo, by the way.
Miles Guo was paying Jason Miller a million dollars a year as CEO of Gutter. Now he's back on the Trump campaign.
He was paying Steve Bannon a million dollars a year. He was arrested on Bannon's yacht. This is relevant to what's going on in our politics and in the party. This is a guy who was given he gave money to CPAC, right? And so
Max asked or somebody else asked today whether Guo gave money to New York and Republic.
Which isn't a smear, which isn't a smear because Guo gave money to CPAC.
And so me putting that up, it's not a smear.
It's me saying, why don't we talk about this?
And if your position, Vish, is that it's not relevant.
That's fine.
But it's a good thing that I put it up there.
So now you can...
respond
yeah
what you did
we'll go ahead and let
people
I guess
decide
can I respond
sure
Heather
yeah
well yeah
again
you should be able to respond
no no
Chief, you were trying to respond real quick.
I'm going to give you 30 seconds,
and then I need to pivot just a little bit.
Yeah, the whole point was we went from a just a common sense.
We can all look at what Seth did and say that was not correct
to pivoting to some attack on Santos when he's not here to defend himself.
If we want to talk about specifically going back to him.
He's still here.
Well, he's a listener, not a speaker.
So if he should have right to respond, and for people...
Oh, sorry. On my end, it says he still speaker.
No, he's a listener on my end.
So, yeah, you know, we just, if we're, if we're in a pivot on the side point, just focus
specifically on what happened, which is what Seth did.
You look at it as a pro to Sanis person or not.
I know that you don't like bang mouth, or mouse, whoa.
I don't, I mean, but the whole issue we're seriously we were talking about is with the
actions of the tweets.
So if you look at the thing objectively,
you know,
You all look and say Seth had something wrong.
I think we should all come together and say what he did was incorrect.
That's a good way of unifying, you know, the DeSantis and the Trump people.
Look at that, World Peace on Twitter, right?
I think that's the thing we should try to do, instead of, like, pivoting to these side points.
Yeah, I think, I think.
I don't, I mean, I mean, sorry guys, one second.
I mean, the greater question is this.
Look, let me go to Vish on this.
Vish, I mean, the reason why people are concerned about this, I believe.
Oh, Heather, sorry, let me go to Heather on this because she's trying to get my name right.
So Heather, the reason why people are concerned about this is essentially, because this looks like,
and we've talked about the funding, you've talked about the fact that Babylon B was funded by the DeSantis camp,
we've talked about the fact that Seth Dillon funded DeSantis.
So...
I mean, the real concern is this, that this seems like a political strike on Trump's people.
Like, is that how it's coming across? Heather.
Hey, guys. I know you just came to me, but my dog actually just collapsed on the floor.
So I'm going to figure out what's wrong with my dog right now, and I'll be back in a little bit.
No, no.
Sorry.
So, Vish, same question to you.
What's your thoughts on my question?
I think it's totally a political strike.
I believe that Gavin was targeted...
by Seth Dillon and Seth Dillon is a proxy for the DeSantis campaign or Pushaw or whoever who has been there are receipts of them being paid and again in this very space the same people who go out there and run interference for DeSantis are the ones here running interference for Seth Dillon and Babylon B I don't believe in coincidences so
I believe that it is a political strike.
I believe it is meant to have the chilling effect to keep, to let Trump people know that they have no space to express their opinion so long as they're in any of the nexus of, you know, private, public relationships that exist, such as...
you know, the dissent, you know,
Desantis's governor's office,
his presidential campaign,
Babylon B, the supporters,
the investors of Babylon B,
et cetera, et cetera.
So I think that it is a political strike,
and I think that if they,
if that's how they want to play,
We can play...
Is there a way that I could defend him where you would not...
Because your argument seems unfalsifiable.
Can you...
Please, how would you make your argument falsifiable?
Like, how can I defend him in a way that you would, like, not question the integrity of?
Kind of hard to do now, Max.
Right.
So your argument's unfalsifiable.
That's the problem.
Like, basically, like...
And then it also goes to, like, how could Seth...
have, I mean, I guess you could say he should have done a privacy instead of publicly.
But other than that, how could he have fired him?
How could he have fired him in a way that you would not accuse him of being compromised by DeSantis?
Oh, yeah.
He could have did it just like how most CEOs do it, which is by picking up the phone, being like, hey, man, look, your tweets don't work for me.
Say it like a man. Do it like a man. It's the method in which he did it.
speaks it's so so so anomalous that the method has to be questioned and why that method was chosen has to be questioned.
Do you think that him supporting DeSantis' re-election for governor?
Do you think that indicates anything?
Anything?
Who supported Seth Dillon were supporting?
So Seth Dillon supported DeSantis' re-election campaign.
I mean, you did too.
So like everybody in this room supported it.
Sure.
Like the fact that he donated money to the re-election campaign, like, do you believe that that's relevant?
Yes, absolutely.
It's always relevant.
It's a source of cash.
Like, it's a politician's lifeblood.
Yes, I believe that.
100% I work in this business.
It's 100%.
I don't want to take
too too far down into the weeds here,
but I want to ask an audience question here.
Vish didn't respond though.
To what exactly?
Respond?
We're going to go back to Vish after Heather?
We did.
I just spoke.
Yeah.
Yeah, we did.
I don't know if you can hear.
Maybe we'll bring you down and back up or anything like that.
But I do want to say an audience question that we have,
talking about the at-will employment down in Florida,
which gives employers apparently a lot of ability to fire people for,
you know, lots of different reasons and they have a lot less restrictions.
what would be the difference
if somebody were to
let's say it was a they worked for a loony
left organization or something like that
and they were they were super pro MAGA
or the other way around they were with a MAGA organization
that didn't want a super lefty working for them
was there no
no avenue at all for that employee
to push back on that no legal grounds for litigation
I mean, if you're fired for your political views.
Correct.
It's a great question.
People, I don't think, once again, I'm just saying, I don't know that you, you know,
it's not free speech is not implicated exactly because this is not an action by a government, right?
It's by an employer.
So sometimes when those things happen, it's what you see is people are able to sue,
but they're able to sue because it was a governmental entity.
They work for the state, they work for, etc.
Right.
I'm not sure in a private business that would work.
Once again, I would love to hear from someone else who has a deeper understanding of employment law.
But I think you can do that.
As I said, it is not race, gender, sex.
You know, there are like seven categories, and it's not one of them.
Most states, by the way, are at will in America.
But there are, you know, there are contracts.
There are also, there's tenure situation.
There are lots of situations, unions, et cetera, who have protections.
So this doesn't apply to everybody, right?
But I think you can do that.
And by the way, I just want to go back to the tweet thing because there's a woman in the chat who's done a great job.
Apparently Donald Trump fired several people via tweet.
So I guess whoever said a real man wouldn't do that.
Well, I don't know.
Donald Trump did.
Thanks.
Okay.
Yeah, that might be a little different here.
But so let's go over to the bigger picture here, which is the Trump versus DeSantis situation.
And again, like we just read an audience question down there, bottom right head corner, please do that.
Again, we have a subscriber only space that we're about to be having here as soon as we
And this one, we're going to go in here for a little, you know, a while longer.
But you got to go to Mario's page, hit that subscribe button.
It's only $1.
We're going to bring an audience members up on stage.
And it should be a little different.
It's going to be a different environment than this stage.
We don't have any pre-planned people coming up.
But let's go over to the Trump versus Missandis sort of Twitter war that's going on.
GOP, Josh, you have been...
involved pretty deeply in this situation here recently.
You've been, you know, dishing out fire.
You've been taking fire back.
And what I want to know is how effective are these attacks that are going back and forth on both sides?
I believe you mentioned maybe that Christina Pushov, you know, that senior DeSantis advisor that's very vocal on Twitter,
may have a, you know, a Botox issue or something.
Is that really an effective argument?
Does that change any votes or?
So I really don't think inherently, and thank you for having me, by the way,
it is the most effective line of attack for anything,
but it gets the attention off of their talking points and off of what they're promoting
and back on to them personally.
And you can look deeper into them once you have the kind of the baseline attack here.
Okay, Botox.
Then you go into her foreign agent connections.
Then you go into her Soros ties.
You use it as kind of a leading in point to the attacks.
And then you go deeper further, as many people on Twitter, including myself, have.
Use it as a basis point.
Then you go down further into the attack, into the, quote, rabbit hole about the person that you're speaking to and the person you're...
you're trying to attack against.
And especially when DeSantis doesn't have an issue page on his website, you can't really attack DeSantis.
He doesn't have any written down policy platforms.
So where do you go besides his staff?
The ones that are promoting him, the ones that are propping him up here.
And so I don't think the Botox line of attack is the best inherently.
But I don't think it's a bad stepping off point because when you see Christina Pushall on Twitter, or I pronounce her last name, I think I pronounce it wrong, but I'm sorry. Not really, but you know, when you see her on Twitter, the first thing you see are the cheek implants and the Botox. Okay? So it's an effect of just pointing out an obvious fact before you go deeper into the things that are further down the hole and further down in the conversation.
But, Josh, if you don't have substance to attack somebody on here, is that, should you even be attacking them at the...
At that point, I mean, because there has to be, I mean, because we're talking about a sitting governor, right?
So there has to be some sort of, you know, policy or decision that he's made in the past that he can really be, you know, hit on rather than just commenting on the looks of his advisors, you know?
And there are, and there's also things with his advisors, and I'm not on a campaign.
The team Trump is doing fantastic when it comes to attacking him on votes in Congress, on things he's done as governor, and the actual official apparatus is doing a great job at that.
I'm not working for an apparatus. I'm not an advisor. I'm not a spokesperson. I'm not on the payroll of any sort of campaign or any, I never have been.
I'm doing it as an independent citizen speaking about what I think is important to the voters.
And when you have surrogates going out there that are tied to Soros, are tied to Georgia, are tied to Ukraine,
It is important to point out that fact, and it's important to point out the person that's on Twitter on the most in that aspect.
That's important to talk about more than the actual substance of the candidate.
At this point, before debates, before the candidates gone out, actually campaigning, getting the baseline out there, getting the people connected to him that are propping him up to run.
Because I don't think inherently to Sandus wants to run, really, against Trump.
He's been a supporter of Trump for a long time.
Trump supported him.
I don't think inherently he wants to run.
People propping him up need to be critiqued as well.
And it's not just the candidate at that point.
They go after when she was on the Trump team, Kaylee McEnany.
They went after Sarah Huckabee Sanders.
Right. So they do it, and they do it without substance behind it.
Yeah, Kellyanne Conway, you're right there.
And they do it without substance behind it.
We have substance behind me further down the line attacks,
but the baseline attacks also are correct.
And they just attack the looks and the appearance.
When nothing behind it, we have things behind it as well,
and I believe that's being executed very, very well.
Max, can you respond to that?
I mean...
Look, Josh is 16. I said this a few times. Two years ago, he tweeted Ron DeSantis is America's governor. He deleted the tweet today and then lied and said this is a photoshopped image. And, you know, debating with a 16 year old, whatever. Like, kids say a lot of things when they're young. I mean, Max, I don't want to discredit somebody just based on their age.
And it always goes back to my age. No other critique. It always goes back to my age. Notice that.
I mean, what's like, he says, I mean, the thing is, you know, you have to kind of rise above all this because you have 16-year-old saying falsehoods on the internet.
And it's what is.
And like, he'll deleted in a few years, but it's not, you know, this is not going to be a contentious matter here.
He says false things.
And you just kind of, you know, you respond to the allegations.
But, you know, you got to be respectful.
Max, Max, you need to be specific about what's false because I think what you're saying is more worse.
So, like, it's fine if he said some of the false, just, like, specify what it is.
But, Max, is this not exactly the same thing that you guys are accusing the Trump people of doing?
I mean, because, like, you didn't attack Josh on his looks, but you did just attack him on his age.
I mean, is that not, it's not an attack.
It's not, it's not, it's saying, you know, you, there's, you don't get into debates.
You don't get into debates over this.
It's just an understanding of where he's coming from.
This is, this is.
You know, it's totally healthy that you have a high schooler is very passionate about politics.
I respected a lot.
When I was in high school, I really, you know, I had a patch for politics as well.
Very glad I didn't have Twitter.
And it is what it is.
Like, he's saying, like, you know, someone told him that Christina Pusha has ties to Soros.
Like, that's nonsense.
But like, I'm not going to attack Josh for that.
I'm going to attack whoever told him that.
Like, someone lied to him.
It is what it is.
And, you know, likewise, like, people having a meltdown about like.
Have you the bunk at, Max?
Is that thing debunked, Max?
Doc, like, you believe...
Can we get a community notes in here?
Do you?
You know where All of Soros money goes?
We have a thing on Drumotron to make this more clear.
We're going very vague with these tweets,
but we just put him on Drummatron if you have a problem with it.
The whole foreign agent thing, it's very...
It's disappointing because, you know, for a very long time, I defended President Trump from the nonsense, Russia, collusion conspiracy theories.
And then I see, like, some of the strongest supporters turn around and have these insane conspiracy theories about foreign agent because a lot of people don't really know what a foreign agent is.
that's a fact right so like susy wiles registered for an agent um paul manafort registered for an agent
rogersstone registered for a they all have to account for that don't they excuse me at least they all
registered right and so did she yeah should we send her to jail after the fact no i don't think any of
should be in jail i think it's just i think basically what happened is people hear people hear the words
foreign agent and their brains kind of shut down
Because it just, all it means is that you worked.
Maybe you're having.
You worked on behalf of someone.
In Christina's case, she worked for Donald Trump's business partner, Mikhail Sakashvili,
also a close associate of Trump loyalist Michael Caputo.
I mean, this is a whole lot of nothing.
And I think people, again, they hear foreign agent, they think, like, spy.
Like, I did have someone tell me that foreign agent means spy.
It doesn't.
It means she worked for him.
And she never hit it.
Yeah.
And let's also be honest, let's also be honest about the fact that that, that lobbying on behalf of, or working on behalf of many kinds of clients, both U.S. and non-U.S., is a notoriously, like, improperly regulated practice that's very common in politics and in Washington.
I'm not saying that makes it okay that one or another person didn't register, but let's actually just be really honest about the fact that,
on both all sides of the Republican Party
and on all sides of both the Democratic and Republican parties,
there's a lot of failure to register going on, right?
It's a really big problem.
And I think we should just be fair about that
for folks who aren't as aware of that.
There are probably thousands of people in this country
who should be registered under FARA who aren't.
It's a really big problem,
and it's not limited to one person or party or campaign.
Actually, can I, Nick, I'd like to ask the question
to GOP, John, or Chief,
Or even this, you know, somebody from the Trump camp.
You know, we got yesterday.
Can I respond to Ben real quick on that?
I mean, I'm sorry.
No, sure.
No, sure.
Ben, the reason this is more relevant, because her associations are in an area where World War III is about prime to go off.
Right? It's the Republic of Georgia, her sucking face was Zelensky on stage, apparently the day he was inaugurated.
The questions about DeSantis, and my biggest problem with DeSantis is his lack of clarity on its foreign policy.
But I know why that is, is because it's Bush's foreign policy. It's a neocon foreign policy.
We know this is true because we know who's funding them.
All right, we know, okay?
So let's stop pretending that her relationships are somehow irrelevant and just part of a larger mass or population of people that are in D.C.
trying to get money flowing one way or the other.
Dr. Malibu, you post that image of, you like to post images of like Jeb Bush standing near DeSantis at the inauguration.
You like to post these images a lot and you whip up all these.
I think the relationship with Jed Bush, the former governor of Florida and the opponent who was mocked and ridiculed by Trump in 2016 is relevant, Max.
Dr. Malibu, do you think it's inappropriate for a former governor of Florida to attend the Florida gubernatorial inauguration?
I think it's inappropriate for...
governor who owes his office to the to the endorsie the president you're changing the subject dr malibu
five years dr malibu he quit congress too he's a quitter he's following the money that's why he's not
announcing his position he's not a serious candidate and neither are you
Okay, so Dr. Malibu, you're saying that it is inappropriate for the former governor of Florida to attend his successor's inauguration. Is that right? Am I not use the word inappropriate? I'm simply pointing out. You keep posting the picture, though. It's relevant. Very weird.
It's not weird.
Who supports a candidate is important to the Max.
Who supports a candidate is relevant.
Who they surround themselves in a primary is relevant to who they're going to surround themselves.
Dr. Melody was an inauguration.
They have real fucking power, Max.
There was, like, Barack Obama was a Trump's inauguration, but you're going to say that doesn't count.
And you're right.
It doesn't count.
No, former presidents and senators, persons of important get to go to the inauguration.
Right.
It's considered a good form.
You're hurting my brain, Dr. Malibu.
So I think the bigger, the bigger thing that I want to ask is, Mikhail Sakhvili has a financial relationship with President Trump.
I don't know who that is.
Does that count?
Does that count?
Some Russian guy.
I don't know who that is.
You don't know who McHale-Sachin-Vu-Shah for being one agent.
You don't even know.
You know what real terrible is?
stunning admission.
About Muhammad Ali.
Have you ever heard about him?
That's stunning.
Can you believe that?
Can you believe that?
You have been attacking.
You really don't want to keep Ketka for being a foreign agent.
You don't even know who she worked for.
Wait, one on.
We're doing these one-aboutisms.
Can we just get to specific like tweets that the whole issue was about with Josh and Max?
Because that was the initial claim, right?
So, so, and actually, do I have a chance to respond to Max when he was talking about me?
GOP, Josh, actually, before you answer, I do want to ask you this question.
You can answer both points and please my question because I do want to get from somebody from the Trump side as well to answer this.
Yesterday, you know, two days ago, Donald Trump on truth social, sent out a truth backing up Ken Paxton, the Attorney General of Texas before the impeachment.
trial that happened in the house.
And a day later, the Texas
GOP, you know, majority of
Congress voted to impeach
compacts him effectively based on
Texas law, removing him, you know, as
the attorney general. So I guess
whatever you were going to answer, but I do want to ask that,
doesn't that kind of show that Donald
Trump might not have
kind of that influence within
the, specifically, I mean, we're talking about
the Texas GOP, right? I mean, that's probably
as Trump as you can get.
in many aspects. But even in the House of the Texas House of Representatives still went against
Trump's desires and voted to impeach him package. If you can answer that and whatever else we're
going to bring up.
So with the Ken Paxton thing, it shows the people who are elected to office, who are most likely or not funded by the swamp, don't listen to Donald Trump.
I think that's actually a good thing when people who are elected to office don't listen to Trump, and especially when we don't know the ties to them and Trump promised a primary of them.
We'll see where that goes, obviously.
Really quickly here, Max said that I lied about Christina Pichol working for George Soros.
The Warsaw Security Forum is funded by Open Societies.
which was funded by George Soros.
It's on her LinkedIn page.
She was a member of some sort of counsel with them, first and foremost.
The next thing here is Max.
I'm going to be a primary voter in 2024.
The primaries in March, my birthday's in June, Ohio losses I can vote.
So I can't talk about politics when I'm 16.
And what I say is wrong when I'm 16 years old.
What changes when I'm able to cast a ballot?
Will I be able to talk then?
What changes?
Because the only critique the same people have against me is my age.
Right? They're like, well, you're 16 years old. You don't know what you're talking about. I can cast a ballot. Okay. In March of 2024, I will cast my ballot for Donald Trump, probably in the Ohio primary. I vote for Bernie Marina for Senate. And so why is it a problem that I'm talking about politics on the internet when I'm able to vote next time around?
I'll say, Josh, I'll say, so I don't know very much about you. I've only really been hearing about you the last few days. I'm actually not going to criticize you because I actually was kind of like you. I got into politics when I was 15, 16 years old.
and it's it's I think it's a great thing actually that you're that you care and that you're doing these things regardless of what particular position you may have I guess I'll just give you an unsolicited advice and I know it's unsolicited which is why I called it that
um at least you have more at least you have more self-awareness than max there are a lot of people in politics and in campaigns um
who don't care about other people and who use people.
Obviously, I think you already know that a bit,
but, you know, I'm sort of glad that your last name isn't on here.
Not because I'm criticizing anything you've done or said,
but because your...
Young enough to be taken advantage of, and even adults can be taken advantage of.
And as you continue in politics, I really hope that you are skeptical of everyone around you and trust your gut if things feel off.
Because not everybody in this space, no matter what team they're on or claim to be on, is a good person.
And I just want to leave you with that because you're young and I don't want anyone to screw things up for you or mistreat you, regardless of who you're going to vote for in 2024.
Well, I really appreciate that.
And on the point of an adult being taken advantage of, Max has told me he's not paid to say what he says about the Sanis.
I think that's being taken advantage of pretty widely there.
Sir, what do you mean by that?
You mean he think he's not, he is being paid, but is saying he's not?
Either that or he's being used by the DeSantis campaign.
It's like, oh, you're helping us out.
He settled in a space yesterday.
He was 150 years old, right?
He's not taking seriously.
George, did you just accuse the guy of flying?
I think I've done that plenty of times.
I don't think this is a new accusation.
This is the problem.
Yesterday I heard you speak on the chat on the space saying what you were saying about Christina, about her bodrocks and so on.
You're 16 years old.
Why are you bullying a woman?
You think this is a good start for you?
I don't believe I said a lie or an inconsistency.
I believe I've been pretty consistent and I haven't said a lie about anyone.
I don't think I've lied or said anything.
It was inappropriate for you to speak like that about a woman.
I don't care how much Botox may have.
You're 16 years old and you shouldn't be doing that.
Right now, you just thought.
People make fun of the topic.
I don't.
We're way too.
I don't knowing to me, right?
Like, look, how many times you guys crying about him saying something to Christina and you're all piling on it on him and keep on mesh in his age?
Like, can you guys like grow?
No, I think what everybody is getting at.
Can I ask a question to the space?
One second.
One second.
So you can jump in and disagree with me, Ben,
straight, let me just finish my point.
So you can disagree with his positions.
You can basically refute his points.
You can't be crying at him and saying,
oh, he's bullying, oh, he's doing wrong,
or you're only 16.
That's irrelevant.
I'm thoroughly...
I'm so really impressed with the...
Well, I'd say you're trying to bully.
He could use the same argument.
You're trying to bully him.
So, Evie, this whole, like, feminist, liberalist argument about bullying women is just
ridiculous.
Actually, I'm not a family.
No one buys it.
You just look ridiculous when you say.
No, I don't.
No, I don't.
This is the problem we have on the Trump side.
We bully people.
I'm not on the Trump side.
I'm just against this liberal left.
But I am.
I am.
I am.
I'm criticizing your own guys.
If you're such a liberal lefty.
Excuse me?
I said,
I said, how were you in the Trump side when the only thing I ever hear you on the spaces?
Sorry, I was born and raised in a communist country.
So trust me.
No, but all I'm hearing you, all I'm hearing you talk about in the space is that.
You also said when a Republican gets my name right.
Like I didn't understand that either.
That was a joke.
That was a joke, even you probably don't have a sense of humor.
Maybe it's a cultural thing, but what I'm telling you, we have a problem.
I'm trying to say your argument is a liberal.
Your argument about feminism is a liberal leftist.
I am not a feminist.
I do not believe in family.
All of her to talk about is women, women, women,
don't say this to women, don't say that to women.
Leave the kid alone.
That's not what I said.
Maybe you're a liberal and that's what you want to hear.
That is absolutely not going to say.
Yeah, go ahead.
I have a question.
So, so you're so anti-women and anti-bullying women, so to speak, all right?
She can control her looks.
Fun fact, I cannot control when I was born.
So how is it different between you bullying me because I'm 16 years old?
I'm not talking about me because I'm 16.
She can control her looks.
You keep talking down to me because I'm 16 years old.
I want to see you in Congress, but not by bullying people.
Josh, I think this is kind of, I think me and Evie are, well, let me not speak too much for Evie, but...
What I, my impression of what she was saying to you just now was, you know, she's, you know, an older woman.
You know, we're not quite old enough to be your parents. I'm in my early 30s.
But anybody who is hitting like on any tweets where you're, you know, referring to a woman as having had Botox, knowing, knowing that you're young is not somebody who's for you.
And I, again, I don't really know much about your politics, but no adult.
should be goading and encouraging any 16-year-old to make comments about an adult woman's looks and talk about Botox.
That is not good.
Nobody who cares about you should be saying that that's okay.
And if we can't agree on that, that it's not okay to let a 16-year-old think that making comments about Botox, about an adult woman, is not an appropriate way to behave.
Then then we've got a real problem with just like basic decency because we should we should want better for you than that
That's so condescending but let Josh answer then I'll I'll add to it. Go ahead Josh
Okay, maybe maybe maybe the tweet wasn't in the best taste right I have a question first and foremost about that tweet
Did I say a lie? Did you say a lie about what her looks?
about her operation, about her Botox.
And I think it's pretty obvious.
I don't care.
I don't care if she had 250 operations.
We don't do this.
We don't do this in politics.
We are Republicans.
We don't do.
Oh my God.
How long have you been in politics?
I don't know.
The problem is we play the same game over and over again.
The reason we lose is because we play the same game over and over again.
We don't talk about Botox.
Failure to talk about Botox is not the reason a Republican has ever lost an election.
Let's not go there.
It's one thing to say that Republicans can be tougher in many ways.
But it's another thing to say that we have to accuse people, quote unquote, accuse people of having had Botox.
Yeah.
otherwise we win elections.
Anybody who tells you that that's what you need to do in order to win
does not care about you as a person.
The reason we lose is we don't call it how it is.
We don't say what's the truth because it might hurt someone's feelings.
We need to start saying the truth and talking about what's actually happening.
But, Josh, including about personal appearance? No, Josh.
And you can do better than that as a person.
Why is that, why exactly is that relevant, Josh, in terms of like, you know, we're talking about policy positions, right?
We're talking about the best candidate to run the United States of America, right?
as a president, why is it relevant to attack somebody based on their, maybe she has had Botox?
I mean, so, so, you know, so of a lot of people.
I mean, that's what I mean.
Like, who cares?
I mean, obviously, it's a known fact that President Trump had a facelift these past two years.
And maybe I'll get a tax for that.
Oh, and they never made fun of Trump's looks.
Who cares?
Like, this is, this argument is ridiculous.
Like, at the end of the day, you can, when you argue with somebody, when you fight with someone on Twitter, when you debate with someone, people sometimes say things to each of her.
We've talked about this.
We've talked about the text messages between Persia and Max and Gavin.
Yeah.
And it's generally, that's what happens.
People go emotive.
They say things to each other to basically now do drama on a space
and three or four people attack Josh just because he talked about Botox.
Like, so what, grow up, no one cares.
He's made the comment and move on with it.
Actually, I can I, can I answer, Nick asked me a question. Am I able to answer that or is he going to talk about me?
All right. So I believe I answered his question earlier in the space, but I'll say it again.
It is a great way to draw an attention to your argument if you start with something that's going to provoke outrage.
That's how debates have happened a long time. That's how the debates in 2016 had such high ratings as it was
parent attacks before they got into real substance.
As we've gotten into real substance.
I haven't tweeted about Botox in three days since the original thread went down.
I've started talking about the inconsistencies with Rhonda Santis with his
this website not having any sort of statements on,
any sort of facts on,
any sort of policies on it.
But I've talked more about Botox in this space today
than I have in the last three days
because you won't stop asking me about it.
Could I just say,
just one more thing about Botox, Josh?
It's very common.
Why do you talk about it so much?
Why are you so obsessed with it?
Your mother may have had Botox.
Like, like, adults know enough
to not make fun of people for this
because it's very, very common.
But I was quite low.
Why are you talking about as parents?
So it's a bit of a childish thing to even say.
It's childish of you to,
well, you just have to him.
I like this all.
I wasn't actually able to finish my question here.
Who would you want to say that to him, but like, don't cry when he says the back.
Go ahead.
Can I, I was trying to, like, say, if you use the word Botox, I'm muting you.
Yeah, I'm not.
I promise.
No, I'm saying, like, we have 10 minutes, like, piling on, like, just on Josh.
And it's, I think it's just ridiculous.
He did his tweet.
and you've said your piece, he said his piece.
Can we, can we just, like, move on from this?
It's like, why are we, like, piling on on this, on Josh for, like, 10 minutes,
going after him and then using ages.
It just seems so trivial and so, like, juvenile.
Like, the ways of these, we're adults here.
Josh may not be an adult, but most people who are in the space are adults.
We should just be moving on from this and just talk about actual things,
not, not like, whatever this devolved to, but...
I can make.
One second, guys.
After this space, we are going to have a subscriber-only space.
You guys can ask us any questions you want.
It will be more personal.
So even if you want to ask us questions about, for example...
you know, why did we have Ben on here?
Why did we have GOP Josh on here?
So, Lehmann, could I ask you whether you've had Botox?
No, I haven't.
I haven't. I have not.
And I don't mind you asking you.
No, I'm joking.
In the next space.
And I'm not going to be condescending and say, you know, it's because you're a hater or, you know, make some kind of liberal argument against it.
Don't worry.
But, um.
And also, Tira, if you want to ask me that in the subscribers, this space and ask me more personal questions, join the space.
I'm sure everyone. Everyone would be absolutely a god to know all about your personal, sort of social issues.
We'll answer any questions. We'll even answer questions about the psychology of like what was happening in the space. Why were you asking certain?
questions, why we were making certain interruptions, why we let certain people on, why we didn't
let certain people on. It's going to be a lot more personable. A lot of your questions will
be answered. So join the subscriber only space. It's happening immediately after this space.
It's going to be fun. It's going to be more chilled out, more relaxed. And yeah, join it.
And you'll be able to ask. Well, there'll be snacks. There won't be snacks. Food is not included.
But if you guys want to mail some food over to me to the United Kingdom, it will be very good.
If we're lucky, you will get bodox.
I mean, I won't have Botox TV.
Amen.
I'm with GOP, Josh, on this.
I'm not down with the Botox.
But separate to that, guys, to subscribe, you just pass the button on the top and just
subscribe.
But let me pass it over to Nick.
Sorry, Nick, I interrupt, I don't know if it's Botox or not, but, you know,
you got to admit, Donald Trump's face left, actually, it looks really good.
He looks great right now.
It looks fantastic.
He didn't have too many operations, all right?
Fantastic.
Wonderful.
It's wonderful. It's a perfect space.
But anyway, so I want to move past this a little bit.
This seems like, and maybe I haven't been around in U.S. politics enough, but, you know, we're so early before the primaries from what it seems.
And it's getting so heated right now.
It's, you know, both sides attacking each other very viciously.
You know, does it get worse?
And actually, this is an interesting question that I thought, and I'll ask Chief this.
What happens when Trump comes back to Twitter?
Because we had, what came up in this space the other day with Benny Johnson is he said that he had spoken with people in the Trump camp, very close to Trump, that confirmed Trump was coming back to Twitter.
So, I mean, what do you see happening once you get that first tweet back from Trump?
I mean, do you see him, like, totally diving straight into this?
Yeah.
uh this war that's going on right now so i actually i know some people in trump camp i've reached out to
them too and i've heard murmurs about him returning and twitter pretty soon also um i'll say i'll say
also with this when trump gets back on twitter the game would change we've seen basically trump
off twitter for a very long time kind of just on true social and when he gets back on twitter i
think he will go dive straight into desantis and and and
treat it as if there was a primary in 2015.
Trump is running for president.
He has a couple of opponents to go through.
So he'll go and treat this, you know, treat them as, as opponents.
And I think they'll, you know, go back and get energized back to his roots and say, you know, we got to do these people.
We got to go and get past them.
And I love that.
We need Trump to be...
more in my opinion more like 2015 or he was just you know out there energetic you know going after
people and really going making his case the people like he should be the nominee and i do i do
think that um you know when trump is going to run and you know in this whole thing twitter will be
used in spaces i'm sure i'm sure i'll have some sort of usage with that possibly when the um the
all the issues are sorted out with the twitter spaces
When there's any reassurances from Elon that it'll have a safe and perfect space.
But no, I think he'll be using Twitter for good.
He'll be, you know, tweaking his things out.
Maybe he'll be using some attacks like Robo Ron or, you know, stuff like that, just like in 2015.
So I'm excited for it, though.
He'll be on Twitter soon, I think.
And I can't wait to see what happens.
I mean, Chief, let me, I'm just like, what do you prefer?
Do you prefer, like, let's be honest, Trump attacks, right?
And the things that people are calling GOP, Josh, are like Trump does that anyway, right?
Let's be clear.
And Trump is more direct in his attack.
So he won't mess around.
He'll just attack, like, you know,
putting fingers or whatever it may be.
Whereas DeSanta's attacks, but it's more passive and passive aggressive,
so he'll talk about pawn stars, but not really say it.
So the question becomes, like, what style do you prefer?
Do you prefer, like, a direct attack or do you prefer, like, a backhanded attack?
That's the way I see it, but how do you say it?
a hundred percent if you're gonna go out to somebody you say it to their face you go and you tweet it
out you're not gonna do these little passive remarks like well you know i you know i think just hand
has had some passive remark you know against trump or whatever go you know if you're attack somebody
say it with it say it you know to their face say it on twitter and say and tag them and say hey
this what's going on i don't agree with you if i have if i have a problem with somebody on
twitter like i'll i'll tweet them and i'll say what's going on you know so i think trump
does a great job of saying calling things as he sees them and i respect them people can at least air the
disagreement's out directly to people instead of gossiping or, you know, or behind the scenes or whatever.
He says what he wants to say.
If Trump doesn't like somebody, he'll call you out.
If he doesn't like Roboran, he'll say Roboran, I don't like you.
And he'll say it plain and we all know where Trump stands on these issues when he does that.
So we need more.
The big thing.
Let me go to Josh.
Let me go to Josh and then I'll go to John and then we are wrapping up.
Go ahead, Josh.
All right, so a big thing here, and first of all I want to, I put it on the Jumbotron.
I haven't said a tweet about Botox since May 26, and that's all y'all can talk about.
So I don't think it's really my fault here.
But besides the point, when you really look at the strategy behind Trump's campaign and the way Trump ran his campaign,
has always been personal attacks.
policy. Personal attacks to get the guy warmed up, you know, get him fired up, and then get into the policy, it into the facts of the person.
And I know I've said this a couple of times, but I don't think people understand what I'm trying to say when they keep going back.
Well, you talked about her Botox. I did. I tweeted it. Yes, I did. But I really think that Trump's going to go out here. And I kind of want to go into what Chief Trumps are said as well.
And he's going to do the same thing that he's always done.
He's going to win, okay?
He's doing it on truth social now,
not to the biggest extent that he has in the past.
I think he will on Twitter once he actually can see.
I don't know if he knows what Christina Pushall looks like.
and what has happened there, but, you know, I'll step down now,
but I appreciate you all having me on tonight,
and I'll speak you all soon.
Have a great day.
And a great, we can remember those.
I just want to commend you, like, you've been on the stage.
I've not looked at your tweets except for the ones that I mentioned,
but the way you come across, your elocution skills
and the way you've argued is highly precious.
Thank you.
I'm not trained.
I'm not media trained.
I haven't been trained in debate or anything.
I'm just kind of going at it, you know.
Yeah, keep it going.
You're doing well.
John, go ahead.
Yeah, I just wanted to jump in.
The attacks are going to be very direct when the time comes because Trump views DeSantis, in my opinion, as his only competition.
And it's not that competitive.
And what I mean by that is DeSantis has been campaigning for months as the, you know, he's running for president, but he's not saying it.
When he was in Staten Island, I was covering for a news organization and I went there.
And they were actually going through the news organizations
and who they were going to let in if there was enough room,
as if there was a waiting list.
And there was no waiting list.
There was ample space.
It didn't sell out, for lack of better words.
So, I mean, the excitement is not there on the ground,
and their team is managing and micromanaging everything
to push his image forward.
And that is even making sure, like, hosts of Newsmax,
that didn't apply in time were possibly held out.
So I'm just saying that they're micromanaging everything on this.
And for the comeback lines of Ron DeSantis,
I think that they're not going to be so immediate and on the spot
because they have to wait for Seth Dillon and the Babylon Bader write those for him.
So actually, Nick, just to confirm, do we actually, because I think the last we heard, there wasn't necessarily, like Trump maybe wasn't to do a Republican primary debate with kind of the Republican candidates. Do we, has that changed? Is there going to be one? Has there been scheduled the first Republican primary debate?
I think that has been...
So we've heard both.
I think Trump threatened not to do a Republican primary debate at one point.
I've not...
This is... We're talking two months ago now.
I haven't heard any updates since then.
There aren't any Republican primary debate scheduled as of now.
So I think we're going to have to find out once, you know, those are finally announced and...
and we have dates. So I think it's not safe to say right now because Trump's not really talking about it at this point.
And I ask that because I think that's going to be a key measure, right? I think where we're starting to get a lot of the, from at least Republican voters who, who not, maybe are not as politically active on Twitter and these bases or just in that political sphere, I think that's going to be the first gauge, right? I think that the Republican primary debates are going to be the really determining factor.
uh, right now with Trump and DeSantis being the lead, uh, as a two primary candidates with Trump way ahead, obviously.
Um, I think that's going to be the key issue. And then how, you know, both debate styles, uh, handle in,
and I think, you know, a lot of the criticism that, you know, the Trump campus and Descentes, which is right,
I just, I just, I don't see DeSantis taking tough questions and, and,
I think that's a huge weakness that he has.
And I think that's going to be something that Trump will definitely try to exploit as much as possible.
And the DeSantis camp does not fix that.
I think it spells a lot of trouble for any possibility they might have to becoming president of the United States unless there's something crazy that happens during the primaries.
Yeah, and I think you're right on that.
It does seem like, you know, Trump does actually, I mean, he'll call on anybody in the press that's sitting out on there.
Even people that, you know, he knows, hates him.
He'll still call on them and take those tough questions.
I don't know if we've seen that from DeSantis yet.
Maybe that'll change.
But, you know, I think that's one of the things that people respect a lot about President Trump.
So, guys, one second, press on for a second.
So the subscriber-only space is pinned at the top.
So if you want to check it out.
You can click on the link.
We are going to start immediately afterwards.
We are going to be going that very soon.
Sorry, go ahead, Preston.
I said Trump's also better at answering questions.
Every time DeSantis gets a question,
You know, he either fumbles it or he goes, well, you look at what we've done in Florida and gives really no answer, talks about woke Disney, and that's about all you get from him.
Whereas you talk to Trump, he's going to give you the straightforward, you know, straight shooter answer.
So, you know, another reason why Trump is the obvious go-to.
So right, guys, thank you so much for coming to this space.
It is a much appreciated.
We will be moving over to the subscriber-only space.
So check it out for us.
Join the space for those who are subscribers.
Those who aren't subscribing, you can join it.
It's going to be an ask-us-anything question, open-ended.
So, yeah, come to that space, but much appreciated.
Final thoughts, Nick?
Thank you.
So, yeah, if you want to insult Slame Man, this is a perfect venue to do it.
So come in here and just light it out.
So we'll see you guys over there.
Just subscribe to Mario.
Hit on his profile.
It's $1 only, as I said.
And, you know, we'll see you guys in there.
Thank you for listening.
Thank you, Matt.
