Battle Pass NFTS 👍 or 👎? | Gamified Ep #12 | WolvesDAO x Ethlizards | Twitter Space Recording

Now, apologies to anyone who's on stage where you have a factory NFT model that you're building out because this does not necessarily apply to you directly.

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However, you should not bother marrying the starter wife.

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We've got to kill the characters.

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Battle passes are all about consistency.

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You're going to marry them because you're going to stay in month after month after month.

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You've got to be in there for the grind with the person, but they're also unspectacular on any given day.

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Definitely a marry, not a fuck opportunity.

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In terms of the lands, they're not making any more of it.

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It's a one-of-one, one-night stand.

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Got to fuck the lands.

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That's it.

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That clean and just like that, Enemositas puts his crown on for Fuck, Marry, Kill one more week in a row.

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Sasha, over to you.

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I don't know if I want to follow that.

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That was poetic.

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Okay, well, I mean, I think everyone knows what I'm going to say.

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My entire life has been building character games.

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You know, I've been doing it since I was like six, basically.

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And then Mino, we've done Mino Monsters, Cat Game, Dog Game, now Dimensionals.

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Mino Monsters, you collect monsters.

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Cat Game and Dog Game, you collect cats and dogs.

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Dimensionals, you collect heroes.

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I think there's like, so lands, yeah, that's kill that for sure.

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I think that was basically when people just realized they could make a bunch of money.

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They didn't really have any ideas.

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And I'm like, I read Ready Player One.

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And so, in fact, when we first raised our round, way before we'd even announced anything, I had a bunch of my investors be like, do a land sale now.

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I was like, I don't think I'm going to do that.

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So, yeah, that's obviously kill.

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I'm going to go with Fuck the Battle Passes because, you know, I think it's good.

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It's cool.

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It's going to do well, but it doesn't have the special place in my heart that characters do.

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And on characters, I think there's, you know, one thing that's interesting about Cat Game is that we basically built this huge economy, huge player base off collecting and selling cats that really had no functional value.

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And I think a lot of people overlook this, like, collector aspect.

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You know, when we were kids, we played Pokemon cards.

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A lot of, for me, and I think a lot of people, they didn't even know how to play when you're, like, 10 or 13, but you still wanted that goddamn Charizard.

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And I think that this, to me, seems, it feels like a real opportunity.

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And why I'm so excited about entering the space is because I think the character collection on chain, it's basically what's already been working off chain for the last couple of decades.

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But now it's hugely accessible.

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It's liquid.

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And you can do a bunch of cool stuff with it, which we're already seeing with, like, the factory NFTs.

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As we're seeing with different ways of integrating the game, integrating across different mediums.

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So I think the potential for these character collections on chain is just, I mean, it's completely unexplored as far as I can tell.

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And the good thing about doing it, I mean, if you do it right, like, if you do it wrong, you're going to end up with, you know, tens of thousands, millions, millions of characters.

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And you'll end up with power creep and all this, you know, the regular stuff.

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But how we're planning on doing it is keeping it scarce.

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So we want to have, like, the NFTs be these super scarce collectibles that have really, really awesome, valuable in-game utility and across the franchise.

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So if we have, you know, the same level of DAUs we saw on some of our other titles, like half a million plus, maybe only sub-10%, sub-5% actually own an NFT.

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And it becomes aspirational as opposed to an in-game mechanic, right?

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It would give you in-game mechanics, but it wouldn't be, like, a part of the core loop, essentially.

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And so I think that's really interesting.

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And we just haven't seen that much yet.

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That's where I'm most excited about.

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That's where I'm putting all my time.

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I think it's going to be cool.

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Amazing take.

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Great stuff, Sasha.

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And for anybody that's in the chat, in the comments, please, please, please drop your answers to this question.

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And just to refresh the space, anybody that retweets is going to have a chance to win either a Metalcore pass or an Ascenders NFT.

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There's also a Wild Pass floating around, courtesy of Katie, the founder of WildCon.

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And just to refresh it one more time, this is Fuck, Marry, Kill, Land NFTs, Battle Pass NFTs, or Character and Card NFTs.

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I'm going to go over to Gasboat and then to Jeremy Horn.

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So I'm going to start by killing land, and I won't even feel bad about it because they're going to be empty.

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There's going to be no one on your land using it.

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It's absolutely pointless, not convinced in the slightest.

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It will just be like their Discord servers, and there'll be thousands of them, and you'll be trying to tart them up to get people interested, and no one will care because they'll be somewhere else.

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In terms of Sweet Love, that is going to be the Battle Pass because they'll be rotating through.

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They seem to be getting a lot of attention right now.

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We've seen them work in traditional markets.

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So if we tart them up for Web3 markets, I think they're still going to be lovely.

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Characters, I take the point of, you know, them going down as the power creep comes in, but I'm going to go Mormon and think of characters as I'm passing my wives along as the characters change who's the strongest one.

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So I will be marrying characters.

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Amazing.

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Well done.

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Jeremy, over to you.

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Yeah.

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I mean, to me, such an easy decision, such an easy answer.

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And it always goes back to, like, who I am as a person, and I'm a brand builder, right?

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That's kind of my claim of fame, having worked on, like, very loud franchises.

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And so I'm thinking very differently than the rest.

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One, you know, passionately flock characters.

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There's no great brand.

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There's no great game without memorable characters, right?

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At the end of the day, any fantastic game is all about, you know, lore building, character building.

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And especially in everything that has a collection aspect, like Sasha said, but when you think about Overwatch and Apex and all of the gacha RPGs, Genshin Impact, you know, the massive Japanese character collector market, which is by far, like, in China and in Japan, the biggest market, right?

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All of the games generate revenue with that.

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And so to me, characters will always be at the core of everything that I do, just because that's one of the biggest drivers of, like, vanity, interest, conversion, monetization.

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100% is just, like, such a place of creativity.

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Then, Mary, I'm going to say land.

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And I strongly disagree with people who say, oh, your land has no value, and they're going to be empty.

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It's because today, you know, land sales, they've been overused, but they've been poorly implemented, right?

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We've seen, like, this totally crazy aspect of, like, oh, here's a land sale.

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But, yeah, it is an empty plot that has no usage, no value.

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But when you see games like Illuvium and then Overworld that actually integrate the land, its resources, and its usage, really, like, the economy, I go back to, like, the real world.

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What is the most valuable thing on the planet today?

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It's land, right?

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Like, straight up.

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And some people may say, oh, well, it's oil, it's gold.

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Yeah, but that is localized in a land that is owned by someone.

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Someone owns the mine, right?

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And so maybe that person can get the gold, they can get the oil.

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It's 100% land because, ultimately, every freaking war in the world is about land.

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And every great game that includes strategy and tactics and ownership, stealing land from someone else, using it differently.

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Like, that's what makes any great strategy games from, like, Civilization all the way to what we're doing with Overworld.

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And then, sadly, kill Battle Pass.

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But to me, it's more that the Battle Pass is, like, it's a feature, right?

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It's a way of monetizing.

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It's a way of unlocking content.

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And it's a fantastic one.

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But it still leverages characters.

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It still leverages content that needs to be, like, created separately from the business model.

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It's just, you know, saying, like, oh, this is, to me, like, an extension of, like, a store or what you sell to the consumer.

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So, fuck characters, marry the land, and kill Battle Pass.

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Let's go.

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As a content creator, whenever Jeremy fucking Horn disagrees with the other six people on the panel, you guys have no idea how happy that makes me.

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Thank you, Jeremy.

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A thousand Sam bucks to Jeremy Horn.

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Oh, that's just as much as your land, so.

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Maybe more.

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You know, I love this space because the real passion of all, like, the panelists here, it's just so fantastic.

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And I love Jeremy's takes, and Sasha's as well.

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But just talking about Jeremy's take is that it is so precise and so contrarian in its preciseness because you can see that, like, he's really looking at each nuance in a really new, different paradigm.

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That being said, I disagree with him on some points here, but it's really refreshing to see.

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I obviously am going to marry my angry Yakuza girlfriend, and I will kill Battle Passes because number one is, boys, let's try to be a little bit more original here, okay?

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You're going to take a Web 2 monetization model, slap it in, get some easy money, and, like, whatever, milk your NFT holders more?

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Shame on you, boys.

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Shame on you.

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Rather, you know, for us, our NFT, they're all unique.

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We're going to the PFP kind of way we started there.

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And, you know, each of them will have a Founders Battle Pass, you know, attributes naturally.

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So, you know, bringing it all together.

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So, kill the unoriginal Battle Passes.

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Sorry, boys.

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Think of something better, and maybe I'll like it.

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And you know what?

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I would fuck land because what people don't understand about land is that land can work, but land is fucking complex.

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So, all the dumb fucks who put the land in first, no offense to any Founders who did that, all right?

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But it's kind of fucky, okay?

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Because of the complexity of it.

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You know, fucking land is like, you know, you're a master of the Kama Sutra.

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And I tell you, even at my fittest, I was not the master of the Kama Sutra.

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And I've gone through that book.

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I've tried stuff on that.

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Some of that shit, I don't know how it's fucking possible.

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I don't know.

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My thing doesn't bend that way or whatever like that.

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I don't know if people are really that flexible.

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Maybe you have to be a yogi master to do it.

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But if you can do it, and you do it at the end, and Jeremy was mentioning about, like, land is the most important.

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But I would say, no, your relationship is most important because you live on the fucking land.

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And what you create on that land from the community that you have around you is what gives it the value, and the commerce, and the market, and so on and so forth.

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Jeremy, I'm nervous.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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You know we're stuck in the same language here, actually.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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It's just slightly on a different level.

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You guys will have land sales coming up.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, fuck you.

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I'm just going to give one example.

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One example that's not on Shane.

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But the greatest stories in gaming are in EVE Online.

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By far.

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Right?

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And it's all about land.

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You're talking to a Korean, man.

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Lineage, man.

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It's all about fucking getting that castle.

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Taking it back.

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You know?

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So I get it.

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So I would fuck land once I become a level 10 yogi Kama Sutra dude because that's how hard it's going to be.

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But when it happens, and if someone figures that shit out, man, you're going to have fucking sex followers from here to all the way to India.

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100.

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And, you know, I'll be giving some, like, really confidential stuff.

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But we're closing a big round right now.

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And when investors ask me, like, what's the biggest risk?

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And I say, like, the land economy.

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Like, by far.

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Like, it needs to be so precise, so good.

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And it's honestly not something, like, I can do.

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Just like even my hired.

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What was it?

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Like, the vice president of finance from Iceland became, like, the head of economy at CCP.

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Like, you need some, like, fucking, like, math genius to make you work.

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Bro, I will send you the link for this really beginners to pro Kama Sutra link.

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And it may help your brain expand and for you to get there.

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As somebody who's been in Sinjin's home, I actually did see a copy of the Kama Sutra in there.

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Oh, God.

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Why do you guys tell people stuff like that, Matt?

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That's, like, private.

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Before we get too derailed, Jeremy, was there anything else you wanted to add on e-mail that sounded interesting?

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No, it's just that, right?

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LiveOnline is all about, like, control of zones and economies.

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Amazing.

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And I'm going to go to Sasha.

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It looks like he wants to respond.

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And then we'll go back to Nock and get back in order.

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I want to, I think, I want to partially retract my last statement.

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Because I think there are some really good points about Land.

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And it just hasn't been done well.

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I think it's having a gut reaction to how it's been done in the Web3 space.

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But if you look at the gaming space, it is, when you get these Kingdom Wars, I mean, all the 4X games in mobile were really, like, kind of cult following, heavily monetized.

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But, yeah, you create these huge economies, which are really hard.

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I want to drop a different bomb here, which is going to fuck up the whole Land conversation.

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Which is, like, AI is coming.

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Do it.

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AI is coming.

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And we're going to get really sophisticated bots really fast.

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And it's going to fuck up all of the Web3 gaming economies.

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And if you have a complicated one, and it involves competition, and it could be gamed by a bunch of, I mean, just think about them as, like, humans.

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Right?

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Like, at this point, you can build a bot using GPT-4.

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Maybe you need, like, a couple of them talking together or whatever.

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But you can build a bot that's convincingly human, certainly when it comes to gameplay.

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So how does that, and it's getting crazier, right?

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Like, six months from now, it's going to be totally different.

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How does that factor into things?

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Like, yeah, there's one thing I'd be really concerned about when it comes to designing these complex game economies that are on-chained.

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Sasha, you just totally AI fucked this fucking topic, man.

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That's a massive can of worms that definitely needs to be opened and explored at some point.

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How do you consider that, Sasha?

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Has there been anything?

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I'll ask a very simple question that maybe has a quick answer.

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Has there been anything that you said no to because specifically you're like, man, in two years when AI comes out, that thing is screwed?

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Oh, yeah, everything.

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Yeah.

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I mean, like, the whole play to earn from the beginning, that was kind of screwed but was really ready to be botted.

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But I think that we just have to be extreme.

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And we even saw this in Web 2, right?

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Like, as soon as economy goes rogue, it's really out.

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As soon as there's bad actors who can bot this stuff, it ruins it for everyone.

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So, like, when we were designing the game, we really, like, this was a central premise, is, like, how can we create these economies in a way where they can't be botted?

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And coming back to the characters and the scarcity analogy, you know, like, if you only have, like, under 100k in total of your characters ever,

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and those things are at a high price point, and then they're generating assets, well, then, you know, to bot it, you have a very big ticket to entry, right?

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As soon as you're able to turn an in-game action into something that has actual financial value, you start running into this very dangerous territory.

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And as soon as you have, like, meaningful competition that can be gained by bots to win these big assets, you also get into this weird territory.

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So, dimensionals, the design, like, this kind of turn-based design, the fact that we're going to cycle through a lot of content, the fact that, you know, there's very scarce NFTs,

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and the most direct path to acquiring them is just going through secondary.

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All of that's, like, trying to counter it.

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It might be stuff that we haven't thought through, but it's, I think it's a systemic risk, honestly, in Web3 economies.

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Absolutely agree with that.

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I recently read some literature that made me a lot more terrified than I was before, but again, we'll tackle that another day.

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Thanks for that take, Sasha.

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Amazing stuff.

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Over to Noc to blow all of our minds for, like, the fourth time today.

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I want to give a little bit of a preamble first.

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I think, Jeremy, Dave, probably the most articulate, like, answer and thought about LAN that I've heard in the Web3 space, and I've been sitting here just brewing, trying to think about what he said.

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I loved it.

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An added layer of competition, or, I guess, an added layer of the confusion and how difficult LAN can be to implement is some unforeseen technical issues with, like, instance experiences.

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And one of them, I just want to tell a really quick story.

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2006, it's June 6th.

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I'm a young boy walking through Falador, an old-school RuneScape, and what happens is there is a character who is just running around what should be a safe environment, murdering everybody.

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Google it.

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Falador Massacre 666.

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And effectively, what had happened was RuneScape had launched a player-honed house system where you could build specific features, you could have friends over,

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and the first-ever person to reach, you know, level 99 in construction, which is the max level in RuneScape, hosts this major event.

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Within the event, there's this little boxing ring, and something breaks.

1:13:55 - 1:14:07

Everybody gets booted out of the house altogether, and now what should have been an instance experience basically just unleashed 100 people running around RuneScape, murdering players, thinking that they were safe.

1:14:07 - 1:14:13

So that holds a spot near and dear to my heart, and it's something that, you know, LAN, I guess, in some way, shape, or form.

1:14:13 - 1:14:18

I'm going to get to the answer now by not answering your question, just like last week.

1:14:18 - 1:14:21

I'm going to marry fuck fuck.

1:14:22 - 1:14:24

Thanks in part to Jeremy's answer on LAN.

1:14:25 - 1:14:26

Characters, I think, goes without saying.

1:14:27 - 1:14:30

Sasha had a beautiful explanation of why characters matter in game.

1:14:30 - 1:14:38

Obviously, I'm going to marry battle passes for a number of reasons, but the first is you can put everything that we've been speaking about here within the seasonal battle pass.

1:14:38 - 1:14:46

When you're somebody who buys a battle pass, the first thing that you do, literally the first thing that you do, what is the first item I receive?

1:14:46 - 1:14:47

Oftentimes, it's a base level skin.

1:14:48 - 1:14:48

Cool.

1:14:49 - 1:14:50

I got the base level skin.

1:14:50 - 1:14:53

Let me go all the way to that final tier and see what the top skin is.

1:14:53 - 1:14:54

Oh, this is dope.

1:14:54 - 1:14:54

Right?

1:14:54 - 1:15:06

So, for me, battle passes open up a number of opportunities to implement LAN features or to implement, you know, certain player-owned items or unique skins or unique character mounts or whatever it might be.

1:15:07 - 1:15:09

I think the possibilities with the battle pass are endless.

1:15:10 - 1:15:16

I think LAN and characters obviously play major, major roles in the ecosystem that you're building within a game.

1:15:16 - 1:15:20

But beyond that, about the stories that are told and what gets people excited about the world they're creating.

1:15:20 - 1:15:22

But definitely Merry Battle Passes.

1:15:24 - 1:15:25

Great stuff, Noc.

1:15:25 - 1:15:26

Thanks so much.

1:15:26 - 1:15:27

And what an amazing callback.

1:15:28 - 1:15:32

I googled it as you were talking and it is indeed real if there is any doubt.

1:15:33 - 1:15:43

Real quick, I just want to say somebody that answers this question, fuck, marry, kill, LAN, battle passes, or character NFTs, is going to be winning the wild pass that Wild Paul allowed me to give away.

1:15:44 - 1:15:45

If that's cool with you, Paul.

1:15:45 - 1:15:49

I'm going to select somebody that answers this question in the chat and give that away to them.

1:15:49 - 1:15:55

You can still win the Ascenders or Metalcore Passes by retweeting out the space.

1:15:55 - 1:15:56

So big shout out to everybody doing that.

1:15:57 - 1:15:58

Paul, over to you to answer this.

1:15:58 - 1:15:59

Fuck, marry, kill.

1:16:00 - 1:16:00

Okay.

1:16:00 - 1:16:02

I hate fuck, marry, kill.

1:16:02 - 1:16:03

I'm going to go with marry, marry, marry.

1:16:04 - 1:16:04

Can I do that?

1:16:04 - 1:16:05

No, you can't do that.

1:16:05 - 1:16:06

No, no, no, no.

1:16:06 - 1:16:06

Boo.

1:16:08 - 1:16:10

Oh, God.

1:16:10 - 1:16:10

Come on, man.

1:16:11 - 1:16:12

Your wife is on an airplane.

1:16:12 - 1:16:13

Just do it, man.

1:16:13 - 1:16:13

Okay.

1:16:14 - 1:16:17

Let me defend myself a little bit, all right?

1:16:17 - 1:16:18

It's not because of that.

1:16:18 - 1:16:21

It's not because of the name of it.

1:16:21 - 1:16:27

It's because actually all the most successful, like wildly successful open economy games actually

1:16:27 - 1:16:29

have all three of these things.

1:16:29 - 1:16:32

So it's kind of ridiculous to be like, oh, you can only have one or two of them.

1:16:33 - 1:16:38

But as we said, if I have to rank them, then I'm actually picking characters as number one

1:16:38 - 1:16:43

because I've seen over the years, as we've all seen, that players fall more in love with

1:16:43 - 1:16:49

the characters that they recruit or, you know, like train or like in the case of Pokemon

1:16:49 - 1:16:51

or wild card that they summon.

1:16:51 - 1:16:56

Like those, they just get the most kind of attached to those characters of any different

1:16:56 - 1:16:57

type of asset.

1:16:57 - 1:16:59

So that's always going to be on top of the list for me.

1:16:59 - 1:17:04

The second one down is going to be the wild passes, which we already talked about.

1:17:04 - 1:17:06

And then I did want to spend some time on land like you guys did.

1:17:06 - 1:17:12

So land is actually probably one of the highest value and also capital H hard things.

1:17:12 - 1:17:17

As you've been hearing through this discussion, it ties directly to the conversations we were

1:17:17 - 1:17:20

having last week about the challenges of creating an open economy.

1:17:20 - 1:17:26

And just like Jeremy and others were saying, the thing is land is actually a general concept

1:17:26 - 1:17:32

that speaks to anything in a game's open economy that has artificial scarcity and generates

1:17:32 - 1:17:33

resources that other players want.

1:17:33 - 1:17:35

This can actually be anything.

1:17:35 - 1:17:41

So in the case of wild card, our quote unquote land is, is the way we think about it is anything

1:17:41 - 1:17:44

that restricts access to players' attentions.

1:17:44 - 1:17:47

So kind of like, like look at the World Cup, right?

1:17:47 - 1:17:50

What is, what is land in the world of like professional sports?

1:17:50 - 1:17:51

It's actually broadcast rights.

1:17:52 - 1:17:58

It's the right to stream or to share or to broadcast that sports event on your channel

1:17:58 - 1:18:02

that becomes the scarce artificially limited, or in this case, government limited through

1:18:02 - 1:18:08

network rights resource that then becomes that, that economy's quote unquote land.

1:18:09 - 1:18:11

So games can have different concepts of this.

1:18:11 - 1:18:14

And it's really, you know, it's, it's really fascinating to see how different games

1:18:14 - 1:18:17

are implemented, but it's incredibly difficult, just like we were talking about with open

1:18:17 - 1:18:18

economies last week.

1:18:18 - 1:18:22

If you are going to have an open economy in your game and you are going to have the concept

1:18:22 - 1:18:22

of land.

1:18:22 - 1:18:27

I think the reason that so many people are turned off on it is that on the surface, it

1:18:27 - 1:18:29

seems like this easy thing.

1:18:29 - 1:18:30

And that's why I was making fun of second life.

1:18:30 - 1:18:34

Like, Oh, we'll just have some land and we'll like, you know, divide it up and people own

1:18:34 - 1:18:34

it.

1:18:34 - 1:18:38

And if you do the naive implementation of this without kind of studying, you know, hundreds

1:18:38 - 1:18:44

of years of economic theory and everything else from resource producing economies, it

1:18:44 - 1:18:46

goes completely sideways immediately.

1:18:46 - 1:18:50

And it leads to all the farming behaviors we were talking about earlier and all this horrible

1:18:50 - 1:18:50

stuff.

1:18:50 - 1:18:55

I posted as is my way, I guess now another piece of homework for the listeners into the

1:18:55 - 1:18:57

thread, which is an article from a dear friend of mine.

1:18:58 - 1:18:58

His name is Lars.

1:18:59 - 1:19:03

He, and this is the thing about land and you kind of see this across several concepts in

1:19:03 - 1:19:07

the game industry, there's a handful of people who are like the true experts on this, who

1:19:07 - 1:19:12

have been like doing experiments and studying and following these concepts in video games

1:19:12 - 1:19:14

for like literally decades.

1:19:14 - 1:19:20

And so Lars, this is his specialty and he can get you and he can talk to you for hours

1:19:20 - 1:19:21

and hours about the problems with land.

1:19:22 - 1:19:26

And he's not trying to explain that it's like a bad idea that you should never do, but just

1:19:26 - 1:19:28

that it's one of the hardest things to get right.

1:19:28 - 1:19:32

So the article I posted is about what generally happens in a naive land economy where you just

1:19:32 - 1:19:36

get a bunch of landlords and you get all this rent seeking behavior and it's horrible.

1:19:36 - 1:19:40

And like it disempowers real players and people who actually want to use those resources for

1:19:40 - 1:19:41

good reasons at play.

1:19:42 - 1:19:46

And like, so, you know, like a lot of things that we're talking about, I think it has a

1:19:46 - 1:19:51

ton of promise of potential, but it's one of the most perilous things that, uh, that a

1:19:51 - 1:19:55

game company or studio could work on if they don't have experience doing that, or if they're

1:19:55 - 1:19:59

not hiring the people who have been working on this in games like, like, especially once we're

1:19:59 - 1:20:02

calling out the Eastern games like lineage that have been doing this forever.

1:20:02 - 1:20:07

But of course, Eve online, even second life, um, because these are deep, super hard problems.

1:20:08 - 1:20:13

You know, I think with Paul going to fuck all three and not wanting to fuck Marry or kill

1:20:13 - 1:20:15

one, we have to have a new name for him.

1:20:15 - 1:20:17

And that's polyamorous Paul.

1:20:19 - 1:20:20

Oh shit.

1:20:22 - 1:20:22

Wow.

1:20:23 - 1:20:24

That one's sticking for sure.

1:20:24 - 1:20:30

Katie didn't message me and she said that, uh, Paul is a level 10 Kama Sutra master as

1:20:30 - 1:20:30

well.

1:20:33 - 1:20:35

Katie chiming in from 35,000 feet.

1:20:36 - 1:20:39

Thank you, Katie over to gas boat and then lens for the final word.

1:20:40 - 1:20:46

It was just a quick comment on the fact of what, um, Sasha said, men wild pool or polyamorous

1:20:46 - 1:20:48

pool just touched on that.

1:20:48 - 1:20:53

It's good to hear games actually considering their economy and how it can be botted and how

1:20:53 - 1:20:58

people can farm it because there's, it's become a bit of a catchphrase this week.

1:20:58 - 1:21:02

For some reason, I've seen loads of people tweeting that, uh, players should stop taking

1:21:02 - 1:21:07

money out of the games and that'd be great, but people aren't going to, uh, please don't

1:21:07 - 1:21:08

take this free money.

1:21:08 - 1:21:10

Ooh, is not a design decision.

1:21:12 - 1:21:16

There is absolutely no way we get to that, but I'm so glad you brought that up gas

1:21:16 - 1:21:16

boat.

1:21:16 - 1:21:20

Cause that's literally, uh, one of the topics that I have for this show.

1:21:20 - 1:21:22

Uh, but everybody's dropping such knowledge.

1:21:22 - 1:21:24

Uh, knock also says he has to jet.

1:21:24 - 1:21:26

Thank you so much, knock for joining us.

1:21:26 - 1:21:27

Really, really appreciate you guys.

1:21:28 - 1:21:29

You freaking killed it, man.

1:21:29 - 1:21:33

Can't wait to see you hopefully next week and, uh, over to limbs to wrap up this fuck

1:21:33 - 1:21:34

Mary kill.

1:21:35 - 1:21:36

Yeah.

1:21:36 - 1:21:40

I just want to open up by saying, uh, I'm really glad to see that, you know, a lot of

1:21:40 - 1:21:41

disagreements throughout the panel.

1:21:41 - 1:21:45

People actually have, you know, they're happy to share their opinion and defend their opinion.

1:21:45 - 1:21:48

Like there was the first few panelists were hating on land.

1:21:48 - 1:21:50

Jeremy came in saying like, no, I love land.

1:21:51 - 1:21:52

I think that's such a huge part of gamified.

1:21:53 - 1:21:57

And what we have here is that we can have a civil discourse and have disagreements, but

1:21:57 - 1:21:59

all have our own good opinions on it.

1:21:59 - 1:22:02

And so for this fuck, marry, kill, I actually like all three of these.

1:22:02 - 1:22:06

And it was glad, I'm glad some of the land points got covered because I think in terms

1:22:06 - 1:22:11

of metaverse land and these, you know, relying on UGC, they're, they're going to die for the

1:22:11 - 1:22:11

most part.

1:22:11 - 1:22:15

There might be a couple that survive or one that survives, but I think land plots in terms

1:22:15 - 1:22:20

of like, uh, playable games where you have, you know, some kind of city builder games,

1:22:20 - 1:22:23

some kind of resource generator, factory NFTs, all that sort of thing.

1:22:23 - 1:22:27

I think land can really work for, but I will still kill land because in this option, it

1:22:27 - 1:22:31

is the worst of the three for me, even though I do actually like land.

1:22:31 - 1:22:37

And so kill land, I will fuck battle passes because I'm down for a good time with some battle

1:22:37 - 1:22:37

passes.

1:22:37 - 1:22:41

They can, you know, bring me some, some fresh meat every now and then I get some new skins.

1:22:41 - 1:22:43

It's like, get something new to enjoy.

1:22:43 - 1:22:48

And I will marry characters as well, because I like to collect, uh, especially when you

1:22:48 - 1:22:51

have that, uh, kind of emotional attachment.

1:22:51 - 1:22:54

I think a few people have mentioned you, you play a game for a lot of hours and spend a

1:22:54 - 1:22:55

lot of time in it.

1:22:55 - 1:22:57

You grow really attached to these characters.

1:22:57 - 1:23:00

It's really nice to feel like you actually own that character and you can have it in your

1:23:00 - 1:23:00

wallet.

1:23:00 - 1:23:03

I'll disagree with, uh, Annie on the starter wife and say, I'm happy.

1:23:03 - 1:23:06

I'll, I'll keep the starter wife long-term in the wallet.

1:23:06 - 1:23:08

Uh, amazing.

1:23:08 - 1:23:12

My co-host Lems from the ETH lizards, wrapping that up in brilliant fashion.

1:23:12 - 1:23:13

Thank you so much.

1:23:13 - 1:23:16

And on that note, real quick, while we're in between subjects, I just want to give a

1:23:16 - 1:23:20

massive, massive shout out to the ETH lizards and the Wolves Dow for making this possible.

1:23:21 - 1:23:27

Not only do they make this space possible by providing the distribution for it, every single

1:23:27 - 1:23:31

one of these panelists knows the ETH lizards or the Wolves Dow and not me personally.

1:23:31 - 1:23:32

Right.

1:23:32 - 1:23:34

That's how they, that's how they got in touch with us.

1:23:34 - 1:23:36

And so huge, huge, thank you.

1:23:36 - 1:23:41

Not be possible without either of these organizations and damn, do they have some funny, uh, educated

1:23:41 - 1:23:42

people in them.

1:23:42 - 1:23:43

So thank you guys.

1:23:43 - 1:23:44

Huge, huge, huge.

1:23:44 - 1:23:48

Uh, the next subject and probably the last one, uh, we usually do about two hours.

1:23:48 - 1:23:50

So we have about 35 more minutes.

1:23:50 - 1:23:56

Um, the last one that we're going to cover is a topic, uh, or, uh, uh, game mode that I'm

1:23:56 - 1:23:58

calling change my mind.

1:23:58 - 1:23:59

It's the first time we've done it.

1:23:59 - 1:24:03

So in my opinion, uh, I've been doing a lot of research about soul bound tokens.

1:24:03 - 1:24:08

I love the idea of soul bound tokens a lot of different ways, but I've been stuck on

1:24:08 - 1:24:10

this and I'm hoping that somebody can break it out of me.

1:24:10 - 1:24:14

There's two major issues with them that I see, and I'm hoping a panelist can change my

1:24:14 - 1:24:14

mind.

1:24:14 - 1:24:20

Number one, uh, soul bound tokens might be meaningless if they cannot be displayed anywhere.

1:24:20 - 1:24:24

Right now, we don't really have a great way to show them off.

1:24:24 - 1:24:24

Right.

1:24:24 - 1:24:29

And then the other problem that I see is you can always sell your wallet by removing everything

1:24:29 - 1:24:34

except for the soul bound token and then distributing your wallet on some kind of black

1:24:34 - 1:24:34

market.

1:24:34 - 1:24:38

I would love to see some hands up, maybe some counterpoints about why this isn't true.

1:24:38 - 1:24:41

Paul, I saw yours jump up quickly and just a heads up.

1:24:41 - 1:24:44

I'm, I think I'm getting rugged on the phone that's running wolves down.

1:24:44 - 1:24:45

Hopefully that doesn't happen.

1:24:45 - 1:24:46

Uh, well, uh, Paul, over to you.

1:24:46 - 1:24:51

Um, yeah, so this is actually a quite complicated concept.

1:24:51 - 1:24:56

I think the original notion of soul bound tokens, uh, which was basically a token that

1:24:56 - 1:25:01

doesn't have its trade functions, like a smart contract doesn't have the trade function turned

1:25:01 - 1:25:07

on or the send or, and receive functions turned on is, is actually like a super naive version

1:25:07 - 1:25:07

of this.

1:25:07 - 1:25:15

Uh, the real thing that, um, that was proposed with SBT tokens, if you go look it up, uh,

1:25:15 - 1:25:19

wasn't something that necessarily can't be moved around, but it was this, this concept

1:25:19 - 1:25:25

of an asset that is tied to a particular identity and that other assets could then be tied to

1:25:25 - 1:25:25

that asset.

1:25:25 - 1:25:27

So we've actually been working on this a while.

1:25:27 - 1:25:31

We've done a ton of research on wildcard because that original implementation of like,

1:25:31 - 1:25:33

oh, well, it'll just be an NFT that you can't move outside of wallets.

1:25:33 - 1:25:35

Like, that's not, that's not great.

1:25:35 - 1:25:39

We know we're going to run into a bunch of user experience problems that people are like,

1:25:39 - 1:25:40

I lost my wallet.

1:25:40 - 1:25:41

I can't access that.

1:25:41 - 1:25:43

My whole identity was there, et cetera, et cetera.

1:25:43 - 1:25:47

So there's a much deeper rabbit hole that you can go down.

1:25:47 - 1:25:51

If you, if you kind of look up this topic and look at the recent work that's being done

1:25:51 - 1:25:57

with regards to things like attestations and other, uh, complex on chain protocols that

1:25:57 - 1:26:03

allow this concept of a true identity that is tied to a person, but not necessarily tied

1:26:03 - 1:26:03

to a wallet.

1:26:03 - 1:26:04

And that's what I think is the real future.

1:26:04 - 1:26:08

That's what, where I'm excited to head with this, but it's much more complicated than

1:26:08 - 1:26:12

those protocols and those like EIPs, those standards for this haven't really emerged

1:26:12 - 1:26:13

yet.

1:26:13 - 1:26:16

So most people, when they talk about Soulbound, they are talking about just a thing that can't

1:26:16 - 1:26:19

be moved out of the wallet, but that's, that's not a great version of that, in my opinion.

1:26:19 - 1:26:24

And I, I'm looking forward to us getting to a better, more advanced, robust version of

1:26:24 - 1:26:25

that in the near future.

1:26:26 - 1:26:27

I share that enthusiasm.

1:26:27 - 1:26:28

Thank you, Paul.

1:26:28 - 1:26:29

Over to Jeremy Horn from Overworld.

1:26:29 - 1:26:38

Um, yeah, I mean, great, great points, uh, Paul on identity and I, I see the logic where

1:26:38 - 1:26:43

I fail and I'm, I'm much more with you, Sam on, on, you know, I don't fully understand

1:26:43 - 1:26:46

the idea of a Soulbound token in terms of execution.

1:26:46 - 1:26:51

But even in terms of identity, I've heard from, you know, quite a lot of people in this

1:26:51 - 1:26:51

space.

1:26:51 - 1:26:56

Oh, we're going to have this identity system that's a Soulbound token that can be cross

1:26:56 - 1:26:59

companies, cross games to verify the identity of a player.

1:26:59 - 1:27:04

But I always go back to, this is something that I don't understand the value of it being

1:27:04 - 1:27:06

on chain, right?

1:27:06 - 1:27:11

Like, what's the difference from having an Xbox profile account, right?

1:27:11 - 1:27:14

Where all of my games are tracked, I've got everything on chain.

1:27:14 - 1:27:16

And in this case, I can actually display it.

1:27:17 - 1:27:22

And so to me, this is like a solution in, in search of a problem, right?

1:27:23 - 1:27:28

Instead of going back to the value of Web3, which is like ownership, you know, real world,

1:27:28 - 1:27:31

I've got this magic to gather the ring card, I've played it, I want to trade it.

1:27:31 - 1:27:37

And here it goes not only against the philosophy, but I don't understand what's improving really

1:27:37 - 1:27:37

for a user.

1:27:38 - 1:27:40

And Paul, I'm going to go back to what you said, which I totally agree, which is like,

1:27:41 - 1:27:45

when things are too complicated for a normie, and you know, I'm a normie as well, like I

1:27:45 - 1:27:49

make games for normies, that's what I've done for, you know, my entire life.

1:27:49 - 1:27:53

The moment it's like too complex, I kind of get lost.

1:27:53 - 1:27:55

I'm like, but who's going to do that, right?

1:27:55 - 1:27:58

And in the case of Soulbound token, I'm like, nobody's going to do that.

1:27:58 - 1:28:03

But like, when I play on Xbox or PlayStation, I've had literally the same gamer tag on Xbox

1:28:03 - 1:28:06

for probably over a decade at this point.

1:28:06 - 1:28:08

And I don't care that it's not on chain.

1:28:09 - 1:28:11

And after that, I'm going to bounce, but I want to hear Paul counter.

1:28:12 - 1:28:12

Yeah, yeah.

1:28:12 - 1:28:14

Yeah, I just, can I respond to it real quick?

1:28:14 - 1:28:17

So there's, there's really, this is, it's such a great point that you just brought up,

1:28:17 - 1:28:20

because I think there's only one reason for Soulbound token.

1:28:20 - 1:28:24

And by the way, in my mind, like I said, a Soulbound token is really, it is, it's an Xbox

1:28:24 - 1:28:24

gamer ID.

1:28:24 - 1:28:25

That is the perfect way to put it.

1:28:25 - 1:28:30

It's an identity that has data associated with it, that is meant to be associated with

1:28:30 - 1:28:34

that user, not meant to be traded independently from that person's identity.

1:28:34 - 1:28:38

So from a game developer's perspective, that's a really useful concept, right?

1:28:38 - 1:28:40

Like it's, it's useful.

1:28:40 - 1:28:43

It's valuable for us as game developers to be able to say, you know what, this thing,

1:28:44 - 1:28:47

we really don't want this thing to be something that a player can just sell to another player.

1:28:47 - 1:28:51

If we want it to be grouped together with other data that's associated with that person's

1:28:51 - 1:28:54

identity, and it doesn't mean that they can't sell their accounts.

1:28:54 - 1:28:58

I mean, look at World of Warcraft gold farmers selling whole accounts that are leveled up

1:28:58 - 1:28:59

and have all the gear and everything else.

1:28:59 - 1:29:00

So people will still do that.

1:29:01 - 1:29:04

But it creates a lot of friction, which is a good thing in this case, when all that data

1:29:04 - 1:29:09

is grouped together and really tied to that person's identity, it de-incentivizes them

1:29:09 - 1:29:09

trading it.

1:29:10 - 1:29:15

So the entire reason for being on-chain, this is the only reason, is so that other on-chain

1:29:15 - 1:29:17

smart contracts can get access to that data.

1:29:17 - 1:29:19

There's really just two ways to do that.

1:29:19 - 1:29:24

You can either do it through an oracle, which is an off-chain web server, basically, something

1:29:24 - 1:29:28

like Chainlink, that is reading that off-chain data and providing it to smart contracts.

1:29:28 - 1:29:32

But in our case, we have a lot of other smart contracts we're working on that are part of

1:29:32 - 1:29:33

the wildcard protocol.

1:29:33 - 1:29:37

And those things want to be able to access the data that somebody has that's associated

1:29:37 - 1:29:41

with their identity, like perhaps their level or their achievements.

1:29:41 - 1:29:42

There are things you wouldn't want to have be tradable.

1:29:43 - 1:29:47

And the only way to do that in the smart contract is to have that data also exist on-chain.

1:29:47 - 1:29:50

I mean, that's literally the only reason for doing it, though, in my opinion.

1:29:52 - 1:29:52

Great stuff.

1:29:52 - 1:29:55

And Jeremy, I think I heard you say you're going to have to jump.

1:29:55 - 1:29:59

If you'd like to plug Overworld one more time and say your goodbyes, I would welcome

1:29:59 - 1:30:00

it.

1:30:00 - 1:30:03

Oh, thanks for giving me the occasion.

1:30:03 - 1:30:03

Yeah.

1:30:03 - 1:30:06

So Overworld, you know, working super hard.

1:30:07 - 1:30:09

A lot is going to happen in the next two months.

1:30:10 - 1:30:13

Our PFP, our Genesis PFP, is going to be at Late Q2.

1:30:14 - 1:30:16

It's a gorgeous collection.

1:30:16 - 1:30:20

There's over, like, 308 unique assets, and I'm not even counting, you know, all the variations.

1:30:21 - 1:30:22

I think people will just love it.

1:30:23 - 1:30:26

But more importantly, Overworld is a game currently in development.

1:30:26 - 1:30:35

We're going to have our alpha for our holders in Q4 around just before the Christmas holiday,

1:30:35 - 1:30:35

basically.

1:30:36 - 1:30:41

But more importantly, the Genesis is going to provide you with land, as we were talking,

1:30:41 - 1:30:45

but also a lot more that is actually, you know, on-chain, usable in-game.

1:30:45 - 1:30:48

But I'm also just excited for the next two months.

1:30:48 - 1:30:53

We've got something like three minutes and 30 seconds of animation coming out, voiced

1:30:53 - 1:30:58

by a tier one celebrity, someone you see currently on TV in one of the biggest shows in the world.

1:30:58 - 1:31:02

And we're just like, you know, really, I go back to what I said about me.

1:31:03 - 1:31:08

It's like, I'm a brand builder, and I'm creating Overworld to be like a massive brand that started in Web3,

1:31:08 - 1:31:14

but then is going to be really, you know, across all media, and all of that value is going to come back to the Genesis holder.

1:31:14 - 1:31:17

So thank you so much for having me, and I'm just going to head out.

1:31:17 - 1:31:19

Thank you, Jeremy.

1:31:19 - 1:31:20

Incredible having you.

1:31:20 - 1:31:25

You're welcome back absolutely anytime, and very, very excited for what you're building over there at Overworld.

1:31:25 - 1:31:27

Really, really amazing stuff.

1:31:27 - 1:31:32

And everybody that joined us from Overworld and Jeremy's retweet and his post about it,

1:31:32 - 1:31:33

thank you guys so much.

1:31:33 - 1:31:39

We do this every single Wednesday the exact same time, 1 p.m. Pacific, 8 p.m. UTC.

1:31:39 - 1:31:41

Really, really appreciate your time, Jeremy.

1:31:41 - 1:31:41

Thank you so much.

1:31:41 - 1:32:11

Thank you so much.

1:32:11 - 1:32:14

about milestones, progress, and a spicy reward.

1:32:14 - 1:32:15

Love that.

1:32:15 - 1:32:16

Well said.

1:32:16 - 1:32:21

And then he said, fuck characters, since they're not necessarily one of ones or unique.

1:32:21 - 1:32:25

Many players could conceivably have the same characters or be consumables.

1:32:25 - 1:32:26

Really well thought out.

1:32:26 - 1:32:28

Very much appreciate that comment.

1:32:28 - 1:32:30

Big shout out to Dante, and congrats on winning that wild pass.

1:32:31 - 1:32:35

I know people are fighting over them tooth and nail, so thank you for giving me the opportunity

1:32:35 - 1:32:36

to pass that out, Wild Paul.

1:32:36 - 1:32:40

And now we are going to get back to the question at hand, which is,

1:32:40 - 1:32:42

change my mind, soulbound tokens.

1:32:42 - 1:32:47

They suck if I can't display them or if I can sell my wallet on a black market.

1:32:47 - 1:32:51

I'm going to go to Enemositas, I think, had his hand up next.

1:32:52 - 1:32:56

Yeah, so I can clearly see why Polyamorous Paul is such a hit with everybody.

1:32:57 - 1:32:58

Absolutely love it, Paul.

1:32:58 - 1:33:00

I agree 100%.

1:33:00 - 1:33:03

The primary value of soulbound tokens is for identity.

1:33:04 - 1:33:07

This is what we're looking at on the ethos earth side as well with some of our upcoming

1:33:07 - 1:33:08

NFTs.

1:33:08 - 1:33:13

In order to recognize how critical this is, you've got to think about people, right?

1:33:13 - 1:33:19

When we think about humans, we're biologically hardwired to have relationships with other people,

1:33:19 - 1:33:21

to have the sense of identity.

1:33:21 - 1:33:27

Normally, we do this through seeing an individual, and we interact with them over time, we form

1:33:27 - 1:33:29

friendships and bonds.

1:33:30 - 1:33:35

When this is an entirely virtual experience, like we all live in today in the 21st century,

1:33:35 - 1:33:37

you don't have that same opportunity.

1:33:38 - 1:33:44

And so a lot of the emotions and the connectivity between people is lost because all you're looking

1:33:44 - 1:33:45

at is an avatar.

1:33:45 - 1:33:50

You're looking at words or messages on a screen that correspond with someone that you know is

1:33:50 - 1:33:50

a person.

1:33:51 - 1:33:56

However, if you have a soulbound token and it has some visualization elements that are

1:33:56 - 1:34:01

able to interact with your mind that then recall that person and forms an idea of an

1:34:01 - 1:34:07

identity in your mind that's linked to an individual, now all of a sudden you have a much stronger

1:34:07 - 1:34:09

emotional attachment to any activities.

1:34:09 - 1:34:15

And all of you that are gamers, you know, you may have that one character or that one person

1:34:15 - 1:34:17

in the game that is your absolute arch nemesis.

1:34:17 - 1:34:22

If they showed up every day and they had a very different PFP or a different character

1:34:22 - 1:34:26

that you were fighting, it loses a lot of the luster of that engagement and that contact.

1:34:26 - 1:34:30

Same thing with people that you're your best friends, your gamer buddies that you're playing

1:34:30 - 1:34:31

with all the time.

1:34:31 - 1:34:32

You know who they are.

1:34:33 - 1:34:36

And so that established identity is really critical.

1:34:36 - 1:34:42

In the Web3 space, the only way that you can really ensure that it's the same person is

1:34:42 - 1:34:47

you have that identity and it's actually tied to a person through some form of KYC.

1:34:47 - 1:34:49

It doesn't have to be full KYC.

1:34:49 - 1:34:50

It could be zero knowledge.

1:34:50 - 1:34:51

That can work as well.

1:34:52 - 1:34:57

But in order to have these long lasting relationships, which we're all craving, you need to have some

1:34:57 - 1:34:59

method that actually approaches this.

1:34:59 - 1:35:07

And so for me, a soulbound token or NFT is not at all antithetical to the concept of Web3,

1:35:07 - 1:35:08

which is of ownership.

1:35:08 - 1:35:12

It's a flip side of that same coin, which is for ownership to matter, you need to be able

1:35:12 - 1:35:17

to ensure the identity of the person that owns it as well as the actual asset itself that

1:35:17 - 1:35:18

can be owned.

1:35:18 - 1:35:22

So I think soulbound tokens, absolutely critical components.

1:35:22 - 1:35:23

There's a lot of gaps.

1:35:23 - 1:35:27

I agree with your take, Steph, that we have to be able to visualize and see them in meaningful

1:35:27 - 1:35:30

ways, but I do think it's an essential component.

1:35:30 - 1:35:35

We're going to see a lot of projects build out, maybe not so many in this wave two of

1:35:35 - 1:35:40

Web3 games that's launching over the next couple of years, but a lot more in wave three that's

1:35:40 - 1:35:41

coming three and five years out.

1:35:43 - 1:35:45

This is what I'm talking about, guys.

1:35:45 - 1:35:48

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but this is the CEO of the ETH Lizards.

1:35:48 - 1:35:53

Whenever they express themselves in this way and demonstrate such a deep knowledge and

1:35:53 - 1:35:57

understanding of these concepts, it puts so much faith in me.

1:35:57 - 1:35:58

It makes me so happy.

1:35:58 - 1:36:00

Over to Brian DeSanto from Infinite Gods.

1:36:01 - 1:36:07

So I think the piece of soulbound that gets me excited is not actually the consumer experience.

1:36:07 - 1:36:08

It's on the data side.

1:36:08 - 1:36:13

You know, I think about it as an advertiser and somebody who's trying to prospect, you

1:36:13 - 1:36:17

know, right now in Web3, if you want to find users, you're typically looking at things like

1:36:17 - 1:36:24

what NFTs do you hold, which really doesn't tell you much about play behavior or tendencies

1:36:24 - 1:36:25

in that standpoint.

1:36:25 - 1:36:29

It tells you more about what is your level of wealth, your level of speculation.

1:36:30 - 1:36:33

And I think we need a layer of data that's universal.

1:36:33 - 1:36:37

And I'll use the word interoperable, which I generally hate, but I do think in this sense

1:36:37 - 1:36:38

is appropriate.

1:36:39 - 1:36:44

You know, it starts to allow us to identify users and players, you know, like you would

1:36:44 - 1:36:47

have something like an Airbnb rating or an Uber rating.

1:36:47 - 1:36:53

And now I can start to assess wallets and players based on their behaviors across a whole suite

1:36:53 - 1:36:54

of games.

1:36:54 - 1:36:58

And I think, you know, that is an aspect that people don't talk about with soulbound because

1:36:58 - 1:37:02

they think about, oh, I'm collecting badges or I'm leveling up or whatever.

1:37:03 - 1:37:05

And again, that shit is cool.

1:37:05 - 1:37:10

But to an earlier point, you know, that's nothing that's different from what you'd get

1:37:10 - 1:37:11

with a gamertag.

1:37:11 - 1:37:14

So I think about data, you know, as the real opportunity.

1:37:14 - 1:37:17

And then as a player, you know, it starts to give me opportunities.

1:37:17 - 1:37:23

You know, maybe I'm a top player in wildcard and now advertisers are coming to me with VIP

1:37:23 - 1:37:27

experiences and all sorts of things that, you know, advantage me as, you know, somebody

1:37:27 - 1:37:32

who maybe doesn't have the money to spend in Web3, but I do have the time and the knowledge.

1:37:32 - 1:37:34

And that is immensely valuable.

1:37:35 - 1:37:38

I can see Paul going off on the emotes.

1:37:38 - 1:37:43

Oh my gosh, dude, this panel, this, this faces, I can't even, the knowledge, I would

1:37:43 - 1:37:48

pay just to show up and listen to the, the knowledge that's dropped in this, in this

1:37:48 - 1:37:49

faces, even though I'm one of them.

1:37:49 - 1:37:50

It's just amazing.

1:37:51 - 1:37:54

I have to give a huge shout out to, to our hosts.

1:37:54 - 1:37:55

You guys are just, just killing it.

1:37:55 - 1:37:56

Okay, sorry.

1:37:56 - 1:37:56

I'll be quiet.

1:37:58 - 1:37:58

Amazing.

1:37:58 - 1:38:02

Anytime you want to jump in and compliment me, Paul, no problem whatsoever.

1:38:02 - 1:38:03

You can skip the hands.

1:38:04 - 1:38:06

We'll just, I'll, I'll give you a free pass over the gap.

1:38:06 - 1:38:08

A hundred more Seth bucks to you, Paul.

1:38:13 - 1:38:18

Um, the only, like, I like the identity stuff that's been mentioned.

1:38:18 - 1:38:24

Love the idea of marketing and then being able to judge, judge sounds a bit harsh, but

1:38:24 - 1:38:29

judge people based on what their wallet's been up to, especially with the bot farming

1:38:29 - 1:38:30

that we see on different things.

1:38:30 - 1:38:33

You may be able to show that you're actually human.

1:38:33 - 1:38:37

You're actually someone who is likely to get involved with playing the game through

1:38:37 - 1:38:38

the identity way.

1:38:38 - 1:38:44

And I think that's where having your gamer tag on chain works because then like, um, I

1:38:44 - 1:38:49

think polyamorous Paul mentioned that anyone can access it and they can do that kind of

1:38:49 - 1:38:50

unilaterally.

1:38:50 - 1:38:54

They don't need permission from the project that that data is being collected by.

1:38:54 - 1:38:55

And I think that's great.

1:38:55 - 1:39:02

The reason I don't want like certain achievements to be, um, soul bound is the idea of proof

1:39:02 - 1:39:02

of flex.

1:39:03 - 1:39:11

Um, but essentially I, I would like people to have the opportunity to lie about getting an

1:39:11 - 1:39:12

achievement.

1:39:12 - 1:39:17

And then there being a website where people who aren't blockchain native, particularly

1:39:17 - 1:39:22

but are gamers and dislike, not dislike that person, but a competitive enough with that

1:39:22 - 1:39:24

person, they will go and use it.

1:39:24 - 1:39:30

They will get an understanding of how all transactions are mapped on the blockchain and use it to show

1:39:30 - 1:39:32

actually, you didn't get that sword.

1:39:33 - 1:39:34

You're lying to everyone.

1:39:34 - 1:39:38

I can see that on this day, you purchased it from the marketplace.

1:39:38 - 1:39:39

You didn't do it at all.

1:39:39 - 1:39:45

Um, and I think it would be a really people's competitive nature about that by showing someone

1:39:45 - 1:39:50

else up would be a great way to get them to actually interact with the technology and

1:39:50 - 1:39:53

the ledger side just to prove that they're right.

1:39:53 - 1:39:54

And people would do that.

1:39:54 - 1:39:58

Someone who's never going to learn about the ledger would go and do that just to spite

1:39:58 - 1:40:01

someone who said that they've killed the boss single-handedly.

1:40:02 - 1:40:03

Absolutely.

1:40:03 - 1:40:07

And if anybody here has spent more than five minutes on Reddit, we do know that people

1:40:07 - 1:40:09

are spiteful enough to spend time doing that.

1:40:09 - 1:40:15

And if anybody doesn't get the reference, literally live on air, purchase proof of flex

1:40:15 - 1:40:18

dot F after he, uh, stated something.

1:40:18 - 1:40:22

I forget what the context was, but we were talking about sold down tokens and you were

1:40:22 - 1:40:23

like, shit, that's actually a really good idea.

1:40:24 - 1:40:26

So it's great to hear that you're still keeping with it.

1:40:26 - 1:40:27

Nice work, man.

1:40:27 - 1:40:29

I think wild Paul wanted to respond to them.

1:40:29 - 1:40:30

We'll go to Sinjin.

1:40:30 - 1:40:32

I just wanted to say, did we change your mind yet, Sam?

1:40:33 - 1:40:37

This is some serious, some serious brilliance around why sold down, especially sold down

1:40:37 - 1:40:39

identity makes sense for games.

1:40:39 - 1:40:40

How are you feeling about it?

1:40:41 - 1:40:41

Yeah.

1:40:41 - 1:40:46

I mean, I personally, I think my mind has been changed on like six topics already today.

1:40:46 - 1:40:52

So at this point, um, you guys have my, uh, yeah, you're doing a reverse lobotomy where

1:40:52 - 1:40:54

you're just injecting, uh, more knowledge.

1:40:54 - 1:40:55

I appreciate that.

1:40:56 - 1:40:58

Uh, well, I also want to say, I have to, I have to jump.

1:40:58 - 1:41:01

I, but I, I got to compliment you again.

1:41:01 - 1:41:05

This is really like, I'm not just saying it because I want to compliment you.

1:41:05 - 1:41:08

Like the fact that I get to be in a room and listen to these other founders who are

1:41:08 - 1:41:10

working on the cutting edge of this space.

1:41:10 - 1:41:13

And it's a small space now, you know, I mean, we're all just getting started.

1:41:13 - 1:41:17

It reminds me of when we were first doing that work on words with friends in mobile and

1:41:17 - 1:41:19

like most of the rest of the game industry wasn't paying attention yet.

1:41:20 - 1:41:24

And, and I, I had a chance to kind of find those real builders that were creating stuff

1:41:24 - 1:41:28

and, and, you know, wolves doubt, eat lizards, your, your ability to pull this group together

1:41:28 - 1:41:30

is just astronomical.

1:41:30 - 1:41:34

I will show up here every week just to hear the perspective and the brilliance coming from

1:41:34 - 1:41:35

these other creators.

1:41:35 - 1:41:36

So thank you so much.

1:41:36 - 1:41:41

Also, of course, you guys chose the one spaces that Katie is literally 40,000 feet in the

1:41:41 - 1:41:45

air to start calling me Paul or Yammerous Paul, but I'm going to give you another one.

1:41:45 - 1:41:51

During this panel, y'all pumped the wild passes from 160 up to 180, or maybe I did.

1:41:52 - 1:41:54

So you can call me, you can call me Pump it Paul.

1:41:54 - 1:41:55

We're going to go with that one.

1:41:56 - 1:41:57

Pump it Paul.

1:41:57 - 1:41:57

All right.

1:41:57 - 1:41:58

Pump it Paul.

1:41:58 - 1:42:00

Thanks so much for having me.

1:42:00 - 1:42:01

Thank you for helping us give it out.

1:42:01 - 1:42:02

Another wild pass.

1:42:02 - 1:42:03

I can't wait to see you guys in the next one.

1:42:05 - 1:42:05

Amazing.

1:42:05 - 1:42:06

Thank you so much, Paul.

1:42:06 - 1:42:07

We'll see you next week.

1:42:07 - 1:42:11

And everything you said, I couldn't be more flattered.

1:42:11 - 1:42:15

Everybody in the audience that listens every week, you guys are also the reason that we're

1:42:15 - 1:42:18

able to get these kinds of panelists that continue to deliver more value.

1:42:19 - 1:42:22

We need viewers in order to be able to say, hey, guys, look, it's legitimate.

1:42:22 - 1:42:24

People care about these kinds of topics.

1:42:24 - 1:42:25

They care about having fun.

1:42:25 - 1:42:27

They care about not just listening to a founder.

1:42:28 - 1:42:32

Say, read the details of the white paper off for the 37th time to a new audience.

1:42:32 - 1:42:34

Those are the kinds of things that drive this.

1:42:34 - 1:42:39

So to everybody listening, what Paul just said, a huge thank you goes out to you for also

1:42:39 - 1:42:44

being a massive part of the success of this show and over to Sinjin to get us back on topic.

1:42:44 - 1:42:45

Thank you so much, Paul.

1:42:45 - 1:42:45

You have a great day, man.

1:42:45 - 1:42:53

You know, this topic is really telling because it almost shows what background you're coming to when you're coming to space.

1:42:53 - 1:42:57

Because when I hear Nox speak, he's not here, but you can let him know.

1:42:57 - 1:43:00

Like, I just think, man, that guy is such a capitalist, man.

1:43:01 - 1:43:05

You know, he's just going to milk all the gamers and all you guys who are down for soul tokens.

1:43:05 - 1:43:09

You're all Satanists and you want to put the mark of the beast on every one of these gamers.

1:43:10 - 1:43:19

And, you know, the benefit for the actual gamer here is like, what was the fucking benefit that we get to like squeeze them and track them and see their behavior more?

1:43:19 - 1:43:33

I mean, you can do that on chain anyways, and you can see what their record is, you know, and someone can make a forensic kind of, you know, program to check their NFTs and, you know, about how much like on chain, you know, data there is about the actual gameplay.

1:43:33 - 1:43:35

When we get to that point, that can all happen.

1:43:35 - 1:43:45

And I think, you know, from a game developer's point of view who hasn't come in through the crypto side, maybe that's an acceptable point of view.

1:43:45 - 1:43:55

But for myself, who came in really hardcore from the crypto side and microfinance and fintech, for me, I don't see a real use for the soul bound.

1:43:55 - 1:44:15

And I think it adds another layer where, you know, we're trying to get away from that, where, you know, you're trying to put Web2 or pre-crypto ownership structures and tracking and monetization on the users rather than the users being part of the ownership structure in a new way.

1:44:15 - 1:44:24

Right. And I do absolutely feel that games are going to usher in a completely new independent digital economy.

1:44:25 - 1:44:32

And the way that we've been looking at it before has always been since crypto has come in, like, let's tokenize all these apartment buildings, land, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1:44:33 - 1:44:42

And it hasn't worked. Right. And, you know, other than e-commerce, I mean, there really isn't so much like digital economy that's really independent from that.

1:44:42 - 1:44:51

But this, for me, is something new and amazing. And to try to enslave my fellow gamers right off the bat, gentlemen, I'm not going to stand for that.

1:44:51 - 1:44:56

All right. So, you know, you be careful out there. Not that I'm actually going to do any physical threats or whatever.

1:44:57 - 1:44:59

But, you know, God doesn't like stuff like this. All right.

1:44:59 - 1:45:05

Senjin, looking out for the people. And I agree with your take.

1:45:05 - 1:45:18

The thing that I always think about is the social credit system that China has that we often look at and say, wow, I hope we never have something like that here in America or, you know, wherever you are in a place that maybe has different laws.

1:45:19 - 1:45:24

And this seems like the first step to a social credit system with every wallet.

1:45:24 - 1:45:25

Would you agree with that, Senjin?

1:45:25 - 1:45:31

Senjin? Absolutely. Sam, you are one of the redeemed and saved, my friend. God's light shines on you.

1:45:32 - 1:45:36

Oh, Lord. All right. Over to Lems for the last word on Soulbound Tokens.

1:45:36 - 1:45:39

And then we're going to wrap a nice little bow around this space and call it a day.

1:45:40 - 1:45:44

So I actually have an interesting take, which is coming more from a gamer perspective.

1:45:44 - 1:45:46

And I'm curious to what you think on this, Senjin.

1:45:47 - 1:45:53

So with the gamer tags and profiles, they're segregated on like a centralized server.

1:45:53 - 1:45:55

For me, I was a big PlayStation gamer.

1:45:55 - 1:46:00

So I've had every single PlayStation and had all my gaming stuff on PlayStation.

1:46:00 - 1:46:01

I had friends who were on Xbox.

1:46:02 - 1:46:08

I could never compare my trophies and what kind of, you know, achievements I has to even though it would be the exact same game, just on a different platform.

1:46:09 - 1:46:15

I think a transparent public ledger is a huge, huge advantage that way because no one can stop you accessing that data.

1:46:15 - 1:46:17

And it means everyone can access it.

1:46:17 - 1:46:19

Like I have Steam on my PC.

1:46:20 - 1:46:23

I was never a big PC gamer, but I have had a Steam account.

1:46:23 - 1:46:24

I have a couple of games on it.

1:46:25 - 1:46:31

But there's nowhere near my game hours on that Steam account than are on my PlayStation, where I have hundreds and thousands of hours on certain games.

1:46:31 - 1:46:37

And I can't like show any of that here in the Web3 side or I can't like import it into Steam or anything.

1:46:38 - 1:46:46

I think it's a huge advantage to be able to have a transparent ledger that everyone can see and it kind of like can carry through with you over years and years.

1:46:46 - 1:46:54

And it doesn't matter if a new device comes out or a new, better like software or whatever becomes like the new game launcher.

1:46:54 - 1:46:59

And that becomes the new thing because it's still a transparent public ledger that everyone can use.

1:46:59 - 1:47:03

So I think Soul Bounds can be really, really useful in that sense.

1:47:03 - 1:47:08

And I won't go on my other tangent because I feel like it'll send us down a rabbit hole.

1:47:09 - 1:47:15

Lemz, you know, I agree with that point in the sense that it's definitely something that gamers do want and would like to compare, right?

1:47:15 - 1:47:19

The issue is that I think that it's something that you should be opt into, right?

1:47:19 - 1:47:21

So you can do that without gamer tags.

1:47:21 - 1:47:26

If you decide to opt into it, you pick which games you want to display, you create a plural file.

1:47:26 - 1:47:31

That profile is, you know, persistent on another chain or whatever, so on and so forth.

1:47:31 - 1:47:37

But when it's, you know, when it's a requirement to play that game and it's automatically given, right?

1:47:37 - 1:47:40

And then you're going to have to put KYC to it and stuff like that.

1:47:40 - 1:47:47

I'm not against KYC, but, you know, I am against, you know, an individual not being able to choose when and where they share their identity.

1:47:47 - 1:47:58

So in the same way, you know, like if you have Swiss bank accounts that are numbered and you choose to say, I'm Sinjin, I have these Swiss bank accounts there in Zurich on this particular road at this particular bank.

1:47:58 - 1:47:59

Hey, that's great.

1:47:59 - 1:48:01

But if I say, no, actually, I don't.

1:48:01 - 1:48:03

And I've never been to Switzerland in my life.

1:48:03 - 1:48:05

You know, that should be my option.

1:48:05 - 1:48:16

Right. And so I think it's like a matter of like that soul bound can be done on a more optional scale rather than an institutional level where it's, yeah, instituted across the board.

1:48:16 - 1:48:18

And that would be my main concern about it.

1:48:18 - 1:48:19

You Satanists.

1:48:21 - 1:48:22

Over to Sam Stratton.

1:48:22 - 1:48:25

I don't know if he knows what he got himself into, but he requested.

1:48:25 - 1:48:27

He's a recent big brain that I ran into.

1:48:27 - 1:48:28

Sam, take us away, man.

1:48:28 - 1:48:30

Oh, I'm so up for this discussion, right?

1:48:30 - 1:48:34

Yeah, I just jumped in the car real quick and caught the back end.

1:48:34 - 1:48:36

This space has been absolute fire.

1:48:37 - 1:48:38

Sinjin, you and I connected recently as well.

1:48:39 - 1:48:46

I guess, look, to Lem's point, what he said before, he just made me realize I was like a 360 gamer way back in the day.

1:48:46 - 1:48:51

And I played years and years and years of Xbox, transitioned over to PS4 and now PS5.

1:48:51 - 1:48:53

And like, you're right, it's all fragmented.

1:48:54 - 1:48:55

I've got trophies on the PlayStation.

1:48:55 - 1:48:57

I've got achievements on the Xbox.

1:48:57 - 1:49:03

And like, I'm now making decisions about which games I play based on, you know, are my friends playing them?

1:49:03 - 1:49:05

And can I compare my trophies and that sort of stuff?

1:49:05 - 1:49:14

So having like the Soulbound token and I guess a universal profile would be super powerful when it comes to that sort of stuff.

1:49:15 - 1:49:19

I think there's power in a universal login across multiple platforms as well.

1:49:19 - 1:49:34

Like I think as someone who's like been playing games my entire life and it's getting worse and worse is every time you start a new game of anything now, it's like you've got a 2K login or you've got a Ubisoft login or you've got an Activision login.

1:49:34 - 1:49:44

And it's just, there are so many different companies now that are capturing our email addresses and creating these new profiles that I've completely lost track of who's got my email address.

1:49:44 - 1:49:53

So I think the power of a Soulbound token and having, you know, an opt-in in that regard where it's like, okay, you want my pro, you want me to set up a login?

1:49:53 - 1:50:00

Great. You can have my Soulbound token verification here and that's all you get. I think that's super powerful.

1:50:01 - 1:50:08

And Sinjin, I know you said it's like, you know, it's the next step to, you know, just having more power and more of our data.

1:50:08 - 1:50:12

But I think the technology is only as bad as the people who use it.

1:50:12 - 1:50:23

So hopefully as a gaming community, we can leverage our voices for good and make sure that the companies are doing the right things with our data.

1:50:24 - 1:50:26

You know, I'm a bit of an optimist here.

1:50:27 - 1:50:28

Sam, you are.

1:50:28 - 1:50:34

Compared to the conversation you brought up the other day, Sam, like you can see that this space has flipped me as well.

1:50:34 - 1:50:47

But, yeah, I just think that, you know, Soulbound tokens do have a potential for us to really control certain aspects of gaming and take it away from, you know, the development companies and that sort of stuff.

1:50:47 - 1:50:48

I yield the rest of my time, by the way.

1:50:48 - 1:50:49

Awesome spaces, guys.

1:50:52 - 1:50:52

That's fantastic.

1:50:52 - 1:51:04

Can I just say in response to that is that, you know, fundamentally what my issue is, is that when the, again, if you're coming from the game side, right, not necessarily crypto side,

1:51:04 - 1:51:16

into Web3, right, you're looking at Soulbound tokens as a way for monetization, a way for tracking, but ultimately, you know, it's part of that model, that economic model that's persisted.

1:51:16 - 1:51:19

And some of it will persist, obviously, into Web3.

1:51:20 - 1:51:32

But, you know, I would challenge everyone to look at this really as a new paradigm where, you know, there will be new different economic models where it's going to be based on shared ownership.

1:51:32 - 1:51:42

And in shared ownership, how are we going to monetize together and build these games out together rather than look at, you know, how are we going to, like, squeeze and fleece the gamers?

1:51:43 - 1:51:45

And I'm not saying that that's the case entirely.

1:51:46 - 1:51:57

But trust me, as soon as one fucker figures this shit out and EA gives them a check for $1 billion, whatever your soulbound goodness was going to happen, it's turned back into 666 Antichrist, buddy.

1:51:57 - 1:52:00

Sam, back to you.

1:52:00 - 1:52:07

Yeah, if I can just say one more thing, Sam, I think you're right, we're moving into a new area of Web3 gaming now.

1:52:07 - 1:52:16

And I know, like, I've been vocal, I know a lot of guys here have been vocal too, about, you know, the grifters and the people that came into the space and launched collections and said,

1:52:16 - 1:52:22

oh, we're going to make a game and they focus on the monetization of the game that didn't exist.

1:52:23 - 1:52:26

I think we're now, sorry, my alert's in the car.

1:52:26 - 1:52:39

But I think we're now moving towards, you know, getting back to what's more powerful for the gamer rather than building a crypto project, making it sound like a game.

1:52:39 - 1:52:43

So I'm pretty positive about the people in this space and there's some good stuff.

1:52:44 - 1:52:46

And I think we're going to, it's all going to work out pretty good in the end, hopefully.

1:52:47 - 1:52:48

Eternal optimist now.

1:52:49 - 1:52:50

Yeah, buddy.

1:52:50 - 1:52:51

I love it, man.

1:52:51 - 1:52:55

Like, we need people like you pushing us forward nonstop, Sam, with that optimism.

1:52:55 - 1:53:00

And then we need people like Sinjin calling us the devil to keep us on level-headed.

1:53:01 - 1:53:03

Over to Brian DeSanto from Infinicod.

1:53:03 - 1:53:07

And maybe I'm too Pollyanna and optimistic and naive.

1:53:07 - 1:53:13

But, you know, I think about the space and holders of, like, Yuga assets or Izuki or traders.

1:53:14 - 1:53:17

You know, you think about Blur or Looks Rare airdrops.

1:53:17 - 1:53:27

You know, part of me thinks, what if instead of rewarding people that hold certain assets or trade, you start to reward people that game and spend hours playing the right types of products?

1:53:27 - 1:53:38

Like, as a creator, you know, and somebody who's trying to build a brand and a gaming project, I would fucking love to shower the right people with all sorts of tokens and airdrops and rewards and what have you.

1:53:38 - 1:53:40

And I think about it from that perspective.

1:53:41 - 1:53:49

I think it starts to create a way to reward and incentivize the right types of people and have those people showered with gifts, effectively.

1:53:49 - 1:53:51

And I think, you know, I do agree.

1:53:51 - 1:53:55

I think opting into that and knowing what you're accumulating is important, Sinjin.

1:53:56 - 1:53:57

I think that's a big part of this.

1:53:57 - 1:54:09

But I hope that there's some sort of middle ground where you can identify those people for the right reasons, but also give them the level of protections they need to safeguard their identity and whatnot from the wrong bad actors.

1:54:10 - 1:54:11

Great point.

1:54:11 - 1:54:12

Thanks for that.

1:54:12 - 1:54:13

And we're going to go over to Dub.

1:54:13 - 1:54:18

I wish Nock was still here because, Dub, your profile literally has a reference to old school RuneScape.

1:54:18 - 1:54:20

What's your take on Soulbound tokens?

1:54:20 - 1:54:22

Oh, man, I appreciate it.

1:54:22 - 1:54:24

A lot to think about it.

1:54:24 - 1:54:32

I'm actually head of partnerships over at Soulbound.gg, building exactly what you guys are talking about.

1:54:32 - 1:54:34

So you thought about it a couple of times.

1:54:34 - 1:54:35

Kind of had to hop up.

1:54:35 - 1:54:37

The leaders is here.

1:54:37 - 1:54:38

The head Satanists.

1:54:38 - 1:54:51

The question I have, though, is what Web 2 games are worth going back to and putting onto a Soulbound profile and putting into that history of gamer history?

1:54:52 - 1:54:53

Is it all of them?

1:54:54 - 1:54:56

I think that's up to the gamer to decide, right?

1:54:56 - 1:55:00

Like, you know, I have a ton of hours in, like, Dota.

1:55:01 - 1:55:11

I wouldn't mind some of that stuff being on chain, but do I give a shit about, like, Madden, you know, that I play, like, for, like, three hours each time I spend 60 bucks on it?

1:55:11 - 1:55:13

You know, like, I don't really care about that.

1:55:13 - 1:55:14

But there's other games I do care about, right?

1:55:14 - 1:55:16

And then somebody else might not give a shit about Dota.

1:55:16 - 1:55:20

Or they're like, you know, some dork out there is like, oh, it should be League, you know?

1:55:21 - 1:55:22

And they're wrong.

1:55:22 - 1:55:35

I think any game that has competitive slash cooperative aspects online is something that would be, like, most beneficial to be able to record and verify what people say they've done online.

1:55:35 - 1:55:40

And a new layer to leaderboards and tracking and that sort of stuff.

1:55:40 - 1:55:42

Single player games, eh, whatever.

1:55:42 - 1:55:45

But, yeah, I definitely think competitive and co-op games, for sure.

1:55:47 - 1:55:48

Animo, see, thoughts over to you.

1:55:48 - 1:55:54

Yeah, I think it's a very intensely personal decision and impression people are going to have.

1:55:56 - 1:56:07

One of the key elements of flex capabilities, which is what we're talking about with a lot of these achievements, is it's always meaningless unless it's in the context of the system, right?

1:56:07 - 1:56:22

So if I tell someone that, you know, I successfully healed a three-man end of Onyxia during the original launch of World of Warcraft for the last 5%, if you don't have any idea if that was good or not, it's a meaningless achievement.

1:56:22 - 1:56:36

In the same token, when I put on a shirt or a hat for a sports team that I love or I hang a painting on my wall, some people are going to be able to see that and recognize that it has value to me, but it's meaningless to them as well.

1:56:36 - 1:56:44

But at the end of the day, the individual is the one that has the responsibility and the right to express, these are the elements of my identity.

1:56:45 - 1:56:51

In this case, the gaming identity and the online virtual communities and environments that they're a part of.

1:56:51 - 1:57:05

The individuals that are seeing, but at the end of the day, as long as we have good systems that allow you to say, I choose to express that this is an achievement I have.

1:57:06 - 1:57:07

This is my soulbound token.

1:57:07 - 1:57:15

These are the games that I, you know, that I play, the guild that I'm in, the project, you know, I'm an eth lizard, I'm a wolf, you know, whatever that might look like.

1:57:16 - 1:57:23

We dictate what matters for us to be sharing with the rest of the world, and they're going to decide whether or not they give a damn about it.

1:57:25 - 1:57:26

Well said, Annie.

1:57:26 - 1:57:28

I'm going to go to Sinjin and then Lens to wrap it up.

1:57:28 - 1:57:50

You know, I was thinking about, and maybe the only good thing about, like, the soulbound and from whatever criticism I had is that if we had soulbound tokens for gamers and SBF had one and we knew what kind of shitty gamer he really was, maybe none of the VCs would have actually invested in him because they would have just seen that he's just full of shit.

1:57:50 - 1:57:56

Actually, I just realized I'm a terrible gamer, so this is a horrible idea. Can we scrap this whole idea, please?

1:57:58 - 1:58:05

Yeah, that soulbound token doesn't look too good when you realize you were a silver league for eight consecutive years. Over to you, Lens.

1:58:07 - 1:58:17

Yeah, that was just too funny. I lost my train of thought. But to Annie's point, yeah, I think it's very personal what you want to put on, what you'd want to show off on those soulbound tokens.

1:58:17 - 1:58:23

Like, I would push back on what Sam had said about who cares about single-player games as someone who loves single-player games.

1:58:23 - 1:58:28

And the first time I got a platinum trophy on the PlayStation, it was a single-player game.

1:58:28 - 1:58:33

And it was, a lot of the time, I didn't care about getting all the trophies because a lot of the time they were just, like, stupid little tasks.

1:58:34 - 1:58:44

But on a game that I really, really enjoyed, I took a lot of, like, pride in doing every single little achievement and getting that platinum trophy, which means you've done everything in the game and you have 100% completion.

1:58:44 - 1:58:50

So being able to show those off, even if they are just single-player games, it's something that I would like to do for sure.

1:58:50 - 1:58:57

But the multiplayer and PvP have a little bit more flex, I think, to them than the single-player ones.

1:58:57 - 1:59:01

Lens, don't get me wrong, I actually just tweeted out my platinum trophy for Chia last night.

1:59:02 - 1:59:04

So, yeah, I think it's my case.

1:59:06 - 1:59:08

Amazing. What are the odds of that?

1:59:08 - 1:59:10

And on that note, guys, we're going to wrap up the show.

1:59:10 - 1:59:11

Just a couple of final thank yous.

1:59:12 - 1:59:13

A huge shout-out.

1:59:13 - 1:59:17

Thank you so much to the Wolves Down Eat Lizards once again for being such amazing organizations.

1:59:17 - 1:59:20

If anybody's interested about them, please click through the profile.

1:59:20 - 1:59:21

Learn about them.

1:59:21 - 1:59:22

They are amazing.

1:59:22 - 1:59:25

Brian DeSanto, Infinigods, Wolfstradamus.

1:59:25 - 1:59:27

Man, thank you so much for joining us.

1:59:28 - 1:59:30

Sinjin from My Angry Yakuza Girlfriend.

1:59:30 - 1:59:31

Amazing project.

1:59:31 - 1:59:33

Make sure you guys check that out.

1:59:33 - 1:59:35

Gasboat, insane content creator.

1:59:35 - 1:59:39

Sam Stratton, building an insane project that I won't speak to quite yet.

1:59:39 - 1:59:42

I don't know if the details are out there, but it was really, really cool.

1:59:43 - 1:59:45

Animosita, CEO of the friggin' E-Blizzards.

1:59:45 - 1:59:46

Amazing stuff.

1:59:46 - 1:59:50

Lens, my co-host, my chief of taking care of business, the god.

1:59:50 - 1:59:51

Fresco.

1:59:51 - 1:59:54

You know, Fresco does stuff, I've heard.

1:59:54 - 1:59:54

No, I'm just kidding.

1:59:54 - 1:59:55

He got us.

1:59:55 - 1:59:59

Everybody that wins metalcore beta passes, it's because of Fresco.

1:59:59 - 2:00:00

So give him a shout-out.

2:00:00 - 2:00:03

Dub, thank you for coming up from the audience and dropping some knowledge.

2:00:04 - 2:00:08

And anybody that hears this, even on the audio on demand, anybody that's still listening live,

2:00:08 - 2:00:15

for the next 24 hours, anybody that retweets this will have a chance to win those metalcore or Ascenders passes.

2:00:16 - 2:00:21

I'm going to do 24 hours because we get, like, 3x the listenership overnight from audio on demand.

2:00:21 - 2:00:23

So if anybody hears this, keep retweeting it.

2:00:24 - 2:00:25

24 hours, we'll go through the list.

2:00:25 - 2:00:28

We'll pick 15, I think I have 20, something like that.

2:00:28 - 2:00:32

20 people to give either a pass to or an Ascenders whitelist.

2:00:33 - 2:00:35

Either way, you're very, very lucky.

2:00:35 - 2:00:37

Once again, huge shout-out.

2:00:37 - 2:00:40

Massive thank you, Jeremy and Sasha.

2:00:41 - 2:00:44

Amazing people and even better panelists.

2:00:44 - 2:00:44

Fresco.

2:00:44 - 2:00:46

Yeah, can I say one thing just so I don't get fired?

2:00:47 - 2:00:50

They're alpha keys, not passes to anything.

2:00:50 - 2:00:53

They're alpha keys, redeemable on the Epic Games Store.

2:00:53 - 2:00:55

I just don't want to get fired, so I have to clarify that.

2:00:57 - 2:01:00

Thank you so much for making sure I, too, do not get sued.

2:01:00 - 2:01:01

They are alpha passes.

2:01:01 - 2:01:02

Alpha keys.

2:01:04 - 2:01:05

Alpha keys.

2:01:05 - 2:01:08

The alpha keys that you can use on the Epic Games Store.

2:01:09 - 2:01:10

Very excited for Metalcore.

2:01:10 - 2:01:11

It looks friggin' awesome.

2:01:11 - 2:01:14

And on that awkward, awkward note, we are going to wrap it up.

2:01:14 - 2:01:16

Thank you guys so, so, so much.

2:01:16 - 2:01:21

We'll catch you same time next week, 8 p.m. UTC on a Wednesday.

2:01:23 - 2:01:53

We'll catch you same time next week.

Battle Pass NFTS 👍 or 👎? | Gamified Ep #12 | WolvesDAO x Ethlizards

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