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Be a Business, Man - Wednesday edition. Casting Your Freelancer Net.
Recorded: June 28, 2023 Duration: 1:06:19Space Recording
Full Transcription
Is that turkey bacon?
No, it's just regular bacon.
Real bacon, sir.
Real bacon.
Turkey bacon's bacon.
Don't you dare talk about turkey bacon like that in front of me.
My word, sir?
My word, sir.
I don't know if Brother Bearman is going to make it this morning.
You know, I'm not here so far, but I'm not here, but I'm not here so far, but I'm not here so far, but that's okay.
You know, it's goody in the hoodie.
It's always, you know, it's always good times, you know, it's nice to wake up, get the day started, do it with some people who are doing things like what you're doing.
You know, I'm here, I mean, though, but I'm here to do, but I'm here to do with you know, we're doing, you know, you're here to do it with me.
to me. That's kind of what this is.
I can wake up and face the day
all alone. I can wake up
and have a
consistent starting time.
It's just good to find tribe.
It's always a good time
here. I agree, sir.
I agree.
I appreciate it. Individably.
Individably.
I appreciate
growing and learning
things together.
Yeah, and I'm excited
about today talking. I've
done a lot of sales, but
almost all of it has been
one-on-one
individual sales.
less of what we're talking about
today of casting
the net and trying to get into networks
and associations and stuff
like that. I'm excited to learn that.
Well, you know, dude, it was
like you said,
sales.
Yeah, sales is all I've ever
done, really.
You know?
like, I was selling in an
industry that was
very much like an
old dude's industry,
you know?
I needed to earn
like a lot of credibility
and trust to really
like do things in this industry.
man, it was just like
networking and
referrals, baby.
You know, those things
definitely paid the bills
for a lot of years.
So, yeah,
happy to be talking
about that.
I would say they're still
paying the bills,
honestly,
now that I think
about it.
If I think about it at all.
You know,
there's that.
I think it's kind of fun
to tell a story.
I might tell
a story.
here I am.
I'm Young Toad.
So, Young Toad
leaving
his job
at Starbucks
and he's leaving
to go become
insurance broker.
He's going to be
an employee benefits
broker.
He's going to call
business owners
and ask them
if he can
broker their
employee benefits.
it's a normal job
for a young
18-year-old
toad to do.
You know?
Like,
come on.
The group
that I started
my career
with,
the average
age of a new
hire there
was 41 years
old.
That was the
average age
of a new hire.
And I started,
I was a little
18-year-old kid.
And they're
like,
telling me
to go do
these things.
And I'm like,
these things
are cool.
I understand
the products,
how they work,
why our value
proposition
matters.
But,
like,
people just
don't take me
seriously,
man.
You know?
It was,
like,
my biggest
problem.
And it was
really about,
like,
them not taking
me seriously.
Like,
I didn't have
credibility
and trust
with the
business owners
that I was
prospecting,
right?
People I was
reaching out
to try to do
business with.
the question
was,
like,
who do I
know that
knows people?
And this is
where I feel
like a lot of
times people
get kind of,
like,
in a spot
with it.
You know,
who do I
know that
knows people?
And they're
like,
well,
I don't know
any business
owners.
And I didn't
know any
business owners.
but,
well,
I knew,
like,
a person
who ran
a burger
shop,
but that
wasn't going
to equal
an illustrious
career.
what I had
was,
my granddad
had been
a cop,
like,
an officer
of the law
in the city
I grew up
in for
29 years.
Actually,
he was
the first
licensed
officer in
the state
of Texas
Baylor
family
history.
Badge
number,
number
one.
it happens
when your
name is
BA and
there's no
Alvarez's
or Alexander's
there to
ruin it
for you.
here I am.
I need to get
appointments with
business owners.
I don't know
anybody.
I go to my
granddad
and I'm
like,
here's a
notebook,
you know,
here's a
notebook.
I just need
us to write
down all
the business
owner names
that you
know.
And this
dude's like,
listen,
I have
arrested
people in
this city
for 29
years and
I have
either arrested
the business
owner or I
have arrested
somebody for
the business
owner.
and he
just proceeds
to write
down like
names of
business owners
and I'm
like,
this is
great.
I now
have like
a list
of places
to go
where I
can say
like,
hey,
I'm a
bailer and
they're going
to be like,
you're Johnny's
boy.
And I'm
like,
well,
I'm Johnny's
boy's boy.
But yeah,
I'm here to
talk to you
about your
employee benefits.
The magical
thing that
happened,
like the
thing that
really took
it to the
next level
is my
guy,
grandfather.
What he
does is he
pulls out,
well,
he pulls out,
I asked him
to do this.
This is the
only bit of
training I
received that
really worked.
But I have
like this list
of names
to reach out
And I get
him to take
a bunch of
post-it notes
and he just
writes on the
post-it notes
like,
hey,
give Micah
15 minutes
of your time,
John Baylor.
And he just
gives me like a
stack of
these post-it
notes that,
hey,
give Micah
15 minutes
of your time.
And,
you know,
lending his
credibility to
me is like
really what
he's doing.
And I mean,
like this
literally made
my first year.
Like this is
like the reason
I survived,
you know,
is in my
first year,
I opened 26
new business
accounts.
Like there
are 26
business owners
that were
like,
yes,
I will do
business with
you.
I will let
you broker
my employee
benefits,
18-year-old
young man.
And I mean,
so many of
those people
came from
that initial
list.
and many
that did
not,
they were
referrals from
that list,
you know,
and it was
just like this.
So what I
was up to
like day
to day
was,
you know,
driving around
cold calling,
right?
Like I would
endlessly
just walk
into business
owners'
doors and I
would ask
them for an
appointment.
And what
this gave
me instead,
like,
yeah,
it just
gave me
superpowers,
you know,
I didn't need
to go back
to a place
a dozen
times for
them to
realize I
was serious.
Like I
walked in
and I
was,
you know,
John
Baylor's
kid,
right?
Like,
well,
John
Baylor's
grandson.
And I
mean,
it was
drastic.
I honestly
believe that
it was
maybe like
20 of
those 26
accounts
that I
opened in
my first
year were
just because
of like
this
conversation
that I
had.
And I
wouldn't
have
expected it
to be
like a
meaningful
conversation.
You know,
my granddad's
never really
been in
business.
He's never
like tried
to be a
businessman.
You know,
he was
always like
being a
public servant,
like good
on him.
So I
think that's
kind of like
the conversation
I wanted
to strike
up is
like one,
you know,
it's really
like big
as a
freelancing
type of
person to
find a
distribution
network.
Like it's
why most
businesses
fail.
Most
businesses
providing,
you know,
a fine
product or
service,
but they
fail at
distribution.
And like
their costs
to acquire
a new
revenue is
just too
high.
It's just
too much.
so the
easiest thing
to do
would be
just to
like,
you know,
broaden
your net,
right?
Cast your
net wider.
And I
think that
oftentimes we
kind of get
like the
blinders on
on who
we can
approach to
cast our
net wider.
You know?
and would
I be
correct if
I repeated
this back
to you
and said
that your
first advice
for casting
a quote
unquote
wider net
is making
sure that
you're casting
a good
net,
right?
Because it's
one thing
to walk
into a
store and
say,
hey,
nobody
you've
ever met
before and
nobody
you will
ever care
about,
but I'd
like to
handle
your
insurance,
which is
the thing
that protects
the people
you care
the most
about.
Not much
of a net.
But then
you added
you mended
your nets
up a little
bit with
the sticky
notes from
your
grandfather
and all
of a sudden
people were
like,
you know,
your net
got sticky.
People were
like,
well,
yeah,
this is
everybody
probably
thought you
were John's
kid,
you know,
and you
probably
had to
remind them
of a million
times.
Well,
grandkid,
but still,
either way,
or let
them think
it because
they make
them think
you're
older.
yeah,
is that,
would you
say that I'm
getting the right
idea with that?
Like,
the first
idea is to
like,
make sure
you're casting
a good net
and then you'll
have something
to throw
wider when
you go.
Yeah,
I like that.
I like that,
that vernacular
being used
around that
topic.
For sure.
Big fan.
It's exactly
that,
dude.
It's exactly
that.
You know,
a lot of
times we sit
around and
we like,
we wait for
like,
referrals to
come to us
or we wait
for opportunities
to come to us
like,
many people
are not
comfortable
cold calling
and making
business happen,
if you will.
And they just
kind of like sit
around just
perpetually waiting
for,
you know,
dinner to come
to them.
And a lot of
people do just
fine doing
this,
but it's like,
how can you
thrive,
right?
like,
how can you
go from
being like
where you
were at
before you
were a
freelancer
to like
thriving as
a freelancer,
right?
I very much
could have
just made
my Starbucks
money back
as a
professional
sales insurance,
you know,
insurance sales
agent,
like without
my granddad's
help,
you know,
I could have
just been
back on
barista pay,
but doing
a much
more
professional
job.
But then,
I mean,
when I go
and I leverage
someone else's
network,
I mean,
it 4X's my
income,
right?
Like,
I pay for
a wedding
the next
year and
move to
California.
And,
I mean,
like,
these post-it
notes
drastically
changed my
life.
I cannot
explain it
to you,
you know?
how did
you take,
because you
went from
Texas,
where your
granddad and
your family,
your entire
family had
a history,
and ergo,
a lot of
connections,
right?
how did
you take
the lesson
that you
learned with
those post-it
notes and
put them
into practice
in an
entirely new
environment
when you
moved to
California?
You know,
it worked
so good
what we
did with
the post-it
notes that
I just
started doing
that with
every new
business
owner that
I got
on as
a client?
There was
this whole
process,
there was
this whole
process to
onboarding a
business owner,
right?
You would
prospect them,
you would
find that
there was
a need,
you would
go and
you would
sit down
with them,
you would
review their
benefits,
you would
make
recommendations,
if they
liked it,
then you
would set
up enrollments,
you would
come back
and spend
days there
talking to
each employee
about their
total package,
and then
after you'd
seen all the
employees,
then you
would come
back and
you would
spend time
with the
business owner
kind of
like recapping
what had
happened,
and I
just got
really good
at making
sure that I
was always
extracting the
business owner's
sphere of
influence from
the business
owner.
So when I'm
prospecting the
business owner,
I was always
big on talking
about like,
hey dude,
this is cool,
you understand
employee benefits
is a thing
that you can
get from
anyone,
I understand.
The reason
that you
ought to
speak with
me is I'm
here to
speak about
you,
and what
problems are
you facing
as a business
owner?
There's always
very person
in front of
me centric.
This created
evidence that
I cared,
and people
were way
more prone
to tell me
their problems.
The answers
I would get
at first when
I was prospecting
a business
owner was
like,
hey,
we're good,
we already
have health
insurance,
and then
before too
long,
you're getting
to the spot
where they're
telling you
like,
hey dude,
we have
health insurance
and I'm
still losing
employees,
right?
Or like,
the cost of
it has gone
through the
roof,
or they start
to tell you
the problem
they are
actually facing.
Maybe this
is like a
long way to
tell the story,
but what was
happening in
these conversations
but I was
finding the
business owner's
actual need.
And then when
I would set
these appointments
with a
business owner,
right,
so we're done,
we're moving
forward,
we're going
to work
together,
and now
I'm off to
see this
guy's employees,
the conversation
I would give
him is I'm
like,
hey dude,
I need four
things from
you to
really do
this right.
And the
first thing
is a follow-up
meeting with
you that's
going to need
to be in
about three
weeks.
And he's
like,
what do you
mean a
follow-up
meeting?
What else
is happening?
And I'm
like,
we're going
to get to
what else
is happening,
but in
three weeks
I need a
follow-up
meeting with
you where I
sit down and
go over the
results of
what your
people thought
of this new
program that
we're rolling
out.
And he's
like,
all right,
cool.
So we
put that
on the
calendar.
And I'm
like,
all right,
cool.
Now I
have a
meeting with
you in
three weeks.
So that
means I
need to
get all
of these
other things
done before
then.
And I
would book
into my
calendar
essentially.
You know,
like in
closing business
I learned to
set the last
appointment first
and then be
like,
well,
we've got a
deadline now,
guys.
And what
would happen
is I
would tell
business
owner,
like,
hey,
now what's
up is I
need to
see your
people.
There's a
setup call
that I
need.
And I
need some
census
information.
And I
would get
all the
things I
need in
order.
and then
conversation
was always
just like,
hey,
business
owner,
mentioned
that X
was your
biggest
problem.
If we've
driven any
value to
that at
this meeting
that we're
coming to
in three
weeks,
is it
fair for
me to
ask for
referrals in
this meeting?
And I
would ask
the dude,
like,
if I bring
you value,
am I allowed
to ask you
for referrals?
And I
would ask
him this
weeks before
I would
ask him
for referrals.
And there
are zero
people who
were like,
yeah,
if you
make me
tons of
money,
you cannot
ask me
for referrals.
Can we
all kindly
take a
moment and
wave at
our dear
friend,
Cameron
Brown,
from
Darien
Advisors?
Yay!
Do not
forget to
go to
Darien
Advisors for
all of
your taxing
needs.
All right,
and back
to our
regularly
scheduled
program.
yeah,
I get
the business
owner to
agree to
give me
referrals,
and then I
just start
doing this
process,
rinse,
lather,
repeat,
dude.
Just rinse,
lather,
repeat.
the trick
is to
get yourself
a wish
list,
is what
we called
Wish
list and
spirit
letter are
the words
that we
ended up
calling these
different
things that
I'm doing,
these different
techniques I'm
doing.
And,
like,
what a
wish list
is a
wish list
is all
of the
clients
that you
wish you
had.
That's what
a wish list
And,
maybe there's
a few spots
on your
wish list
that it's
like,
hey,
you haven't
thought of
this person,
but now
that I see
your wish list,
maybe you
should also
reach out
to this
person.
Like,
if you're
going to
show someone
a list
of clients
you're
trying to
get to,
you show
them like
25 clients,
and then you
leave like
five blank
spots at the
bottom for
those people
to add
something into
you know.
There's a
big problem
with asking
somebody,
who are you
supposed to
reach out
or to
give you
a referral,
a big
problem is
that that
person does
not know
what you
know.
Like,
you're
suffering
from the
curse of
knowing,
because you
know what
a person
coming to
Opolis
looks like,
you know.
But the
person that
you're speaking
who you're
saying,
hey,
give me
a referral
for someone
who ought
to come
to Opolis,
like,
that person
doesn't know
anything about
what a person
coming to
Opolis ought
to look
like.
You know,
they know
jackdiggity
nor squat.
All that
they know
is what
they know
about themselves,
right?
Like,
they know
that they're
a Web3
person,
and does
that mean
Opolis
is just
for Web3
people?
Like,
they know
that they're
a young
person.
Can I
tell my
mom about
this,
who's a
freelance
hairstylist?
Like,
they have
so little
information,
and when
you ask
them for
a referral,
they have
to take
that little
bit of
information
that they
have,
and they
have to
apply it
to every
person that
they've ever
met,
and their
brain has
to go
into just
overload
thinking,
tell this
person about
Opolis?
Yes,
And it
just overwhelms
people.
This is why
many people
who ask for
referrals never
get a
referral,
because they
don't make it
simple for the
person who is
giving them
said referral.
So it's like,
you know,
if I just
closed a new
business account,
then I would
spend time
making a
list of
25 names
that I
thought were
adjacent to
this business
owner.
I'm like,
you know,
this business
owner probably
knows,
like,
these people.
He's in
this area,
he's a
trucking
company,
and I
noticed in
his office
that there
was a
calendar from
this,
you know,
uniform
supply company.
like,
I'm going
to put
that on
the list.
like,
we know
he has
to have
these other
services,
so I'm
going to
put these
names on
the list.
But,
like,
there would
be this
intention of
building this
list of
people that
is in
that dude's
network that
he probably
knows,
and then I'd
go to this
follow-up
meeting,
and the
conversation
was always
just smooth.
The conversation
was always
something like,
hey,
we crushed
we solved
the problem
that you
had,
hey,
remember a
few weeks
ago,
we said
that if we
got good
feedback from
your people,
if we felt
like we
moved,
you know,
a solution
on the
issue forward,
that it was
fair for me
to ask you
for referrals.
And the
business owner
was like,
yeah,
that's fair,
like,
what do you
got?
And instead
of saying,
like,
I need you
to make me
a list of
people,
I would just
slide this
list across
the table,
and I would
say,
would you
circle
everyone who
stands out
on this
list?
And this
dude goes
to circling.
He just
scribbles names
at the bottom.
It's so
simple.
And then the
next bit was
really the
magic sauce,
dude.
Like,
all of this
like,
fun.
It's,
like,
proper
planning.
But the
next bit
like,
what pushed
it over
the edge.
Because after
this dude
signs,
like,
circles the
names,
right?
Circles the
names,
what I would
do is I
would say,
hey,
Business
Owner,
instead of
asking you
to reach out
to each of
these people
individually,
because I
know that
that would
be a
truly ridiculous
request of
what I've
done is,
is I've
created this
letter that
I feel
embodies the
spirit of
our relationship
and everything
that we've
done here
together.
if you can
review this
letter,
and if you
can embrace
the spirit
and body
of this
letter,
then all
that I'm
going to
ask you
to do
is that
you take
this letter,
put it on
your letterhead,
give me a
signed copy,
and I'm
going to
hand walk
this letter
to every
name you've
indicated on
this list.
And that
business owner
is like,
reading my
letter,
and the
letter is
just like a
detailed account
of what
happened while
we were
together.
Like,
I would just
tell the
truth in
the letter.
Just telling
the truth is,
it gets you
so far,
you know,
it gets you
so far.
if I reached
out to the
business owner
and he
was rude
to me
for three
weeks before
he gave
me an
appointment,
then I
would put
that in
the letter.
Like,
the letter
would start
with,
you know,
when Micah
first reached
out to me,
I brushed
him off like
I do every
salesperson
because I
was busy
and did
not have
the time.
Right?
Like,
I'm writing
his objections
from my
note-taking,
like,
just into
the letter
and then
it's like,
boy,
am I glad
that I
ended up
taking the,
you know,
I used to
ask people
endlessly
for a 17-minute
meeting
just so that
it was,
like,
different.
like,
you write
him a
letter,
you know,
I am so
happy Micah
was dutiful
about following
up for his
17-minute
meeting that
he so
earnestly
requested.
Right?
Like,
you just tell
the truth.
You just
write the story
into it.
You know,
it's good
to have
things at
the end,
like,
you know,
hey,
healthcare
was really
a problem.
Like,
our rates
were going
up and
we didn't
know what
to do.
You know,
the solution
that Micah
provided was
da-da-da-da-da,
provided value
to the bottom
line.
And I would
always end
with some
kind of
thing that's
like,
hey,
I think a
17-minute
meeting with
Micah is
an absolute
no-brainer
for,
you know,
any business
owner in
the Bay
area,
wherever
you're at.
And what I
was doing,
I mean,
this is,
you know,
so long
ago,
and now
I'm an
old man
at 28,
not 18
anymore,
kids.
a lot of
offices still
had copy
machines in
them.
So I
would have
like this
letter
unsigned,
it's really
just text,
and these
people,
I would ask
them for
their letterhead,
and I would
get a piece
of blank
letterhead,
and I would
fold my
letter onto
the letterhead,
and I go put
it on a
copy machine,
get a scan
of it,
and then
out comes
my letter
on that
company's
letterhead,
and I just
get the
business owner
to sign
you know,
like what
started with
post-it
notes,
and like my
granddad just
like writing,
like, hey,
give Micah 15
minutes of your
time on these
post-it notes,
it evolved,
right, it
evolved to
this thing
where I
just started
to do that
to every
person who
could potentially
introduce me
to a business
owner.
And I mean,
it was the
only way I
survived,
right,
was proper
networking and
proper referrals,
because the
end of the
day, like,
I always
looked like I
did not
belong there,
right?
Like, I
always looked
like such a
kid in here
talking to
business owners,
and like
without, you
know, my
granddad's,
you know,
kind of like
value being
lent to the
conversation,
or without,
you know,
especially when I
moved to the
Bay Area when
I had no
network,
right, like,
it's not like I
knew a single
soul out here,
you know,
these things
really just
made it
happen.
I don't
know where
I would be
without figuring
out how to
do referrals,
how to do
referrals
systematized,
how to do
referrals,
like, I
mean, this
was baked
into the
process, you
know, we
talked about
it in a
meeting, so
I could set
it up for a
meeting three
weeks later.
yeah, I
love, I
love a couple
things that
really stood
out to me
is making
the end
meeting right
away, you
know, like,
the first thing
you want to
schedule, or
the first thing
you're trying to
sell is a
future meeting,
right, that
kind of that
idea carried
into even
the process
of, you
know, when
you start
providing whatever
service or
product you're
providing, you
know, like, if
I sit there
and go, oh, I
can give you
this in this
many weeks, and
I'm going to
do this on
week one and
that on week
two, or, you
know, whatever,
they might go,
well, that's
not such a big
deal, let's push
this back a
couple weeks, but
if I go, hey,
we're going to
deliver you this
by that date, is
that good?
And they go,
yeah, like, okay,
well, here's our
schedule, you
know, it's kind
of like a way
to expedite the
service, which
everything works
better for
everyone when
you can, like,
move things
quickly through
the process, not
dragging things
out, it's
critical to
making your
clients feel
good, so
that's beautiful,
and it also,
like, it also
might get around
a price objection
as well, because
a lot of people
have this tendency
to, like, think
about appointments
as a budget, and
like, well, if I
push this back
until this date,
then I don't
have to pay
that until
that date, and
you know, if
you set up an
expectation of
when you'll be
done right away,
you just kind
of, yeah, you
kind of preempt
that objection a
little bit, so
I thought that
was pretty
brilliant, and
then the way
that your
system made
or makes
referrals, I
mean, I
think anybody
who's ever
been in
sales should
know that
referrals is
like, it's
fundamental to
a successful
sales plan,
and if you're
working for
yourself, then
you're in
sales, whether
you like it or
not, so, but
the thing that
I like that you
did with your
plan is that
you made it so
seamless, so
easy, and yet
kept the
whole, so
is it pretty
personal when
your friend Joe
calls you and
says, hey, my
buddy Travis is
going to come
and talk to
you, he really
just set me up
with this
insurance thing,
and I'm feeling
so much better
about it, and
my employees
are happier.
Yeah, that's
pretty powerful,
but it's pretty
powerful as well
if you just
hand them a
letter, you
put their name
on it, you
found a way
that you wrote
it from their
perspective, all
of that is
just, yeah, so
then they
didn't have to
do any of
the work.
Man, if you
can, yeah, that's
pretty much gold,
bro, that's
pretty obvious,
pretty obvious
gold, I love
it, cheers.
Cheers, cheers,
sir.
Yeah, you know,
it's always better
to have them reach
out with a phone
call and to be
like, dude, you
need an appointment
with Baylor, you
know, but that
was, there was so
much friction in
asking for that,
so like, we just
made it easy for
the client, it's
like, it's what
you do, you just
remove the
friction, right?
Yeah.
And I feel like
this is pretty
big stuff for a
freelancer because
like what you
were talking
about, if you're
a freelancer, you're
a salesperson, get
over it, right?
Like, you may not
like it, but that
is part of what
you do is you
sell this idea
of, like, my
services are
valuable to
those who are
buying your
services, and I
bet you, or
chances are, you
do not want to
be a full-time
salesperson, you
would rather be
doing your
service, you'd
rather be doing
what you do as
a freelancer.
So, like, if you
get good at a
system like this,
then you can
greatly reduce the
amount of time
and effort that
goes into being
a salesperson.
You know, like,
you shouldn't be
prospecting for
new opportunities,
you should just be
asking people using
your services,
whom else needs
their services.
Yeah.
It makes your
life easier.
Yeah, yeah.
Is there a way
that we can
modernize this a
little bit?
I mean, because,
I mean, do a lot
of companies still
use letterhead like
that?
I mean, first of
all, you don't
have to go through
the fax thing
anymore.
You can just
print it out and
have them sign
But what are
some other ways?
I mean, so when
you were first
saying this,
before you were
telling me your
way of, like,
really writing out
the entire
experience, which
really takes it
to the next
level, my
response or my
thing would be
to, like,
have these cards
that have
really, like,
nothing, they
don't really say
anything, but
then just, like,
open them up and
write, hey, so-and-so
got, because I got
the name, please
give Travis 15
minutes of your
time.
He really helped
me out here.
Thanks.
Sign the name.
Do that three
times, three
referrals.
But, I mean, you
made it so much
easier and, like,
fuller, if that
makes sense.
Yeah, I shot
for the moon.
I do think that
getting the letter
was super powerful,
and I hardly, like,
I didn't always use
the letter in a
digital, or, like,
in a physical
setting.
I was meeting
these people live
and in person,
and something about
having the physical
piece with me just
made it easier to
get.
It was, like, I
wasn't fiddling with
DocuSign, right?
I was, like, pen in
hand, signed
paper.
But, like, a lot of
times what ended up
happening with these
letters is I would
not really use them
in their physical
format.
You know, like, over
the course of my
career, I start
collecting all these
different letters of
recommendation, and I
just start keeping,
like, a library of
them.
And then it's, like,
I'm prospecting a new
business, and that
business is, like,
sorry,
we're not
interested, you
know, our people are
too busy, and we
already have health
care.
So I'm, like, okay, I
go look at my letters
of, you know,
recommendation, and I
go find all of the
ones that started with
I'm too busy, and all
of the ones that said
and we already have
health care.
Like, I just go take
the two objections he
has, and I'm, like,
here's the last dozen
people who told me
that combo of
reasons they don't
want to meet with
me, and as you can
see, all of them are
very happy that they
eventually came to
their senses.
You're just
documenting your
success, right?
And I think that maybe,
like, documenting your
success is kind of, like,
an epiphany I'm having
right now.
You know, different
people do this at
different ways in their
practice.
Some people are, you
know, better at
self-promotion.
Other people are not.
However you're
promoting yourself,
documenting your
success is huge.
You know, like, the
reason that the news
is the news is because,
like, someone wrote
about it.
Nobody is covering your
freelancing practice, and
you ought to cover it.
You know, you ought to
cover it.
It is the most important
thing to you.
It is your baby.
If your baby was, you
know, playing sports for
the first time, getting
into t-ball, like, you
would document the
ever-loving goodness out
of that.
So don't forget to
document your success,
right?
If you hit a home run
for a client, document
that stuff.
And then ask them for
referrals.
You know, there's no
complete sales cycle
without a referral
system.
You know, most
people, they prospect
leads.
These leads become
prospects.
These prospects become
clients.
But if you let the
funnel end there, like,
there's nothing going
back into the top.
So it's just a funnel.
It's not a cycle.
It's not self-sustaining.
And you're always
starting over from ground
zero with every single
person you encounter.
Because every single
person you encounter,
you're required to, like,
start from ground zero
with them.
You don't have any
credibility with them,
and you weren't referred
there.
So, like, you're always
just running and
perpetually burning out.
And what needs to happen
is, you know, you need
to change it so that
when people get your
service or your
product, they're
referring people to
your service or your
product.
So that the stuff that's
falling out the bottom
can feed the top.
And the stuff that's
falling out the bottom
is even better than
what you put into the
top before.
So your selling cycles
are going to get
shorter and faster
and, you know,
more lucrative and
bigger.
And you just kind of
got to keep doing
that, you know,
rinse, lather,
repeat.
Like, my largest
client in my first
year was a group
called United
Agriculture.
And they were, like,
this agriculture
cooperative who
basically just had
people running, like,
grain silos.
And it was, like,
85 employees.
It was, by far, the
biggest deal I had in
my first year.
And I got this
referral from a
three-life little
group that I did
hardly anything for.
But I got the
referral.
I mean, I never
would have been able
to walk into the
United Agriculture
office.
But, you know, I
got told to go there
by somebody who knew
somebody in the
office.
And I had a letter
from that person.
Like, just a very
different ballgame.
Saved me hours of
prospecting.
And I think it's
interesting, too,
where it's, like,
the first, you know,
networking partner
that I had was my
granddad.
Like, he helped me
because he wanted to
help me.
And people might be,
like, oh, that's
cool.
Like, you had
someone to ask.
Well, I mean, yeah,
I did.
I did.
Like, they weren't
connected to business
and they gave me,
like, a small list of
leads.
Like, where the magic
worked, though, is
that I had that
leads list have
babies.
And the leads list
from that also have
babies.
And it's because I had
a system.
And, like, a system's a
system if it's
duplicatable and
replicatable, right?
Like, it's not as,
it's not systematized if
you can't do it over
again.
And a lot of times
what happens in,
you know, small
business for sure is,
like, that's what
separates the big
players from the
little guys.
You know, like,
these Fortune 500
companies, they know
that they need
systems in place.
So they can put
pressure on the
system.
And a lot of the
times, like,
freelancers, we're
like, oh, well,
you know, I'm done
with corporate.
Like, I'm done with
having rules and
procedures.
And the way that
things ought to be
done.
Like, I'm just gonna
do what feels good.
I'm gonna go at it
willy-nilly.
And it's like you're
dooming yourself to
failure.
Or at least you're
dooming yourself to
working endlessly for
the rest of your
life.
It's like, work
smarter, buddy.
Not harder.
And, like, how can
you do that?
Well, you could build
some systems.
Right?
Like, write out a
plan of how you're
going to network and
then do exactly
that.
Write out a plan of,
like, how are you
going to acquire
referrals from every,
you know, raging fan
that you have.
And then, like, do
exactly that.
And, you know, if it
doesn't work, like, you
have exactly what you
did written down.
So, like, you tweak
the plan and you just
rinse, lather, repeat.
You know, like, being
a good, like, being a
good person and when
it comes to, like,
building your stuff, I
don't want to say
being a good person.
You can just be a
good person.
You ought to be a
good person.
Like, finding success
in networking or, like,
in business, it really
is about, you know,
building, measuring,
and learning.
That's the most
important thing is,
like, you're building
out new things.
You're trying new
things.
Um, you're measuring
the efforts or you're
measuring, like, you
know, the effort
quotation that goes
into producing said
result.
And you're learning
every time.
And if you're doing
this, like, you're
constantly compounding
your skill set.
You're constantly
getting just a little
bit better.
And, like, that's all
that I am, you know?
Like, I'm just, like,
the product of getting
a little bit better
at selling shit for,
like, a really long
time.
Um, yeah.
It's worked for me.
I don't know.
That's a lot of my
story is just asking
for referrals and
building really
intentional referral
processes.
Um, yeah.
I never had another
way to do it.
That's good.
And I, uh, I used
to get a lot of
referrals with dance
because I taught,
like, partner
dancing.
So it was a lot of
couples.
And every couple
knows another couple,
man.
Every single one.
And I'd never ask
for referrals first.
I guarantee you that
I knew those people's
names before I asked
for referrals.
You know?
Because I had 45
minutes to dance with
them.
So I would sit there
and talk.
Oh, nice.
What else do you
guys do for fun?
Oh, softball.
Nice.
Oh, I think there's
like nine people on
your softball team.
Cool.
What do they do?
Oh, really?
Two more couples.
Oh, really?
What are their names?
Oh, nice.
I know which one
bats best before I
ask for referrals.
And then when I go,
so how about some
referrals?
And they go, I
don't really know
anybody.
Oh, really?
How about Tim and
Jamie?
They're like, oh,
yeah, I guess we
could bring them.
Well, shit, why
don't you bring the
whole softball team
out here?
Group discount.
The next thing I
know, I got the
whole softball team
in there.
And out there, I
sell three people out
of the softball team.
Woo!
I love how, like,
the answer you got
back was, I don't
know.
You know, I don't
know anyone who
wants to dance.
Because, like, that
was the problem,
right?
Yeah.
Every time, man.
Like, they had this
little bit of
information that they
had about going to
dance, you know?
Like, oh, we
decided we wanted to
try it out for this
reason.
And they have to
take that little bit
of information they
have, and they have
to apply it to
everyone they've ever
met.
And they're like, oh,
well, we don't know
anyone who's gotten
the feeling to do,
you know, the Lindy
Hop on a nice
Tuesday evening.
I don't know
anyone who wants
to Lindy Hop.
And you're like,
yeah, but we do
waltz and jazz, and
we do all of these
other things, right?
Like...
I one time got
this lady, and she
was so negative
about everything.
And the only thing
she would talk about
is some stuff she
complained.
But one of the
things she complained
about was another
lady in the office
where she worked.
when she told me
that she didn't
have any referrals,
I asked for
our genemy.
And she gave it
to me.
And it worked.
I'm like,
yeah, but how
about Brenda?
She's like,
I suppose Brenda
would enjoy it.
I'm like,
I'll get her to
tell you me
and her little
secrets, and
then I'll feed
them to you
through the back
door.
Just give me
the referral.
That's amazing.
They actually
became kind of
more friends.
One of them
ended up quitting
the job or
retiring, I think.
And then they
actually ended up
enjoying each
other's company
during dance.
Changing lives,
fixing relationships,
friends.
Brother Bear,
that's beautiful.
Do you have
any time to
chime in,
brother?
Maybe he's
busy.
That's okay.
Alas, he's
busy getting
referrals.
Yeah.
Dude, that
would be amazing.
Comes back,
I've got 30
referrals while we
were on the
call.
I got him to
sign these
post-it notes,
so no.
No, but that
is brilliant.
I love the
post-it notes.
I love all of
this.
This is, I was
just thinking
actually about
how, like the
objections, right?
So here's the
objections from
everyone who would
be listening.
The objections
are, oh, no, I
don't want to
harass people.
Right?
The objections
are, oh, well,
yeah, it's not
going to work for
my particular
situation.
And I'm
thinking about
how, what
you're saying
is easily
applicable,
right?
Even with, even
with us, the
way that we
get referrals
to Opolis, we
have this system
where people
will go
through and
fill out a
form.
When they
fill out a
form, it
gets scraped.
And when that
happens, then it
comes to us, and
then we reach
out.
But you know
what works way
better?
When someone
just emails us
and say, hey,
this is the
company I talked
to you about.
Here's, here's
Jeremy.
Go chat with
him about
Opolis.
It's just that
handoff is
golden, right?
Because people
don't want to
be harassed.
They want to
know that this
is legitimate
and that direct
referral is a
way.
There's always a
way we can
plug in what
you're saying.
So, huge
fan, huge
fan.
Can I just,
wait, wait,
wait.
Do I have a
soundboard?
Oh my god.
How do we
I have a
soundboard.
This is
awesome.
Anyway, so
I did not get
a million
referrals, but
was listening.
Love it.
Love it.
Who are
able?
We only
needed 30
referrals,
Jeremy.
Oh, that's
doable.
All right.
All right.
I mean, 30
times 30 is a
lot.
So, if you
did 30 and
then you got
referrals from
those people,
that's 900,
right?
So, you
literally just
need one is the
point, you know?
That's true.
It's totally
true.
So, when
you were
teaching, are
there other
ways that you
applied this,
right, to
further, like
when you were
training people
in how to do
these things?
Did you apply
it beyond just
getting these
hard referrals?
Are there other
ways that we
can talk about
that?
I think the
biggest lesson
from this is
like Brocktopus
was kind of
asking a
similar question
around like,
how do you
do it in a
digital age?
The big
things that I
was doing,
fam, is I
was making
my wish list.
That's the
referrals I
want you to
give me.
So, I was
always providing
context to
like, hey, I
would like
referrals and I
would like for
it to be
these people
because like
that person
you're asking
for the
referrals from
does not
know what
your target
market looks
like.
You probably
hardly know
what your
target market
looks like.
So, yeah,
wish list was
always a big
part of it.
Even if you're
going to do it
digitally, like
you want to
include that in
an email,
right?
Like, here is
what we're
trying to get.
Huge.
And the other
bit is,
always that
spirit letter,
right?
And we
called it
the spirit
letter because
like, you
know, we
were training
everyone to
do this because
it was working
so well.
So, like, we
called it the
spirit letter
like culturally
and, you
know, in my
little selling
groups.
And what we
were up to
was doing
that all the
time.
You know, if
you were going
to do it
digitally and
like you would
pop on the
phone, you
would talk with
a business
owner, you'd be
like, hey,
remember when
I'm going to,
you know, I'm
going to ask
you for
referrals.
Like, I told
you I was
going to do
this if I
did a good
job and here
I am, I did
a good job.
Is it fair for
me to ask you
for these
referrals now?
And he's
like, sure.
And you're
like, great.
Hey, I just
dropped an
email over into
your inbox.
It includes
a list of
really like the
target clients
I'm trying to
reach out to.
You know, to
any of those
industries or
names like
Ringa Bell.
And the
dude's sitting
there like,
yeah, these
things do.
And I'm
like, okay,
cool.
So, yeah, I'm
just going to
see if I can,
you know, get
another email in
your inbox that
perhaps you could
forward to all
of these people
and copy me
How about
this, Mr.
Business Owner,
you know, I
send you an
email that you
can copy-paste
from you, send
it to these
people, and
just cc me on
the email.
Right?
Like, however
you go about
facilitating, like,
wish list and
spirit letter,
those are the
two components,
right?
The two big
points of
friction for a
person giving
you a referral
is they don't
know who to
send your
way, and
they don't
know what
to tell that
person about
you, and
your job is
just to make
those two
things easy.
Hey, here's
a list of
people I
would like for
you to send
my way, and
here's an
idea of what
to say to
them.
If you can
do those two
bits as a
freelancer, if
you can do
those two bits
as any kind
of salesperson,
like, more
people are
going to give
you more
referrals.
Because people
like giving
referrals, they
like feeling
like their
opinion, their
influence, their
network matters,
like they feel
important when
they refer
someone to
you, and
that person
does business
with you.
Like they
get some
kind of like
lended, you
know, benefit,
some kind of
like lended
credibility.
So your job is
just to make it
easy.
Yeah, I think
that's an
important point
to remember when
we're doing
something like
this, that so
many of us who
are, have an
empathetic knee
jerk of, well,
I don't want to
bother anyone.
Well, if what
you're doing is
helping people,
you're not
bothering anyone,
right?
They'll tell you
very quickly, and
you'll find out
very quickly if
you're doing
your job, if
they're not a
good fit for
you.
But if you're
getting referrals
from other good
people telling
you, hey, this
is the right type
of person for
you, often
you're doing a
service, and
that mind shift
is probably pretty
important as well.
Is that something
you struggled
with?
For sure, like
at the beginning
of selling
things, I was
selling things, and
at the, I don't
want to say the
end, because I'm
still selling
things, but now
I'm very much
just helping, you
know?
Like, I'm just
helping.
That's me.
Like, what you're
talking about,
right?
Like, with that
mindset, I do
think that you
have to be
intentional about
the mindset that
you put into
Like, if
your mindset is
that you are
selling, you're
going to come
off as if you
are selling.
If your mindset
is that you're
there to be
other-centered
and to focus on
another's challenges
and problems, then
like, it's going to
be easier.
It's much easier
to sell if you
approach it with
the mindset of
like a doctor
than if you do
like a used car
salesman, you
know?
The used car
salesman is just
telling you the
prices and features
and benefits of
the cars in
his lot.
And features
and benefits is
the way that a
lot of salespeople
sell.
And they just
stuff these
features and
benefits right
down your
throat.
And it's
distasteful, you
know?
Whereas as
what you can do
is you can be
more like the
doctor and focus
on understanding
what's going on
with your patient,
your client,
and then making
appropriate, you
know, diagnoses
and appropriate
treatment plans.
And like, then
you're just always
helping.
So yeah, definitely
much easier to get
referrals when you're
helping, definitely
much easier to feel
like a good person
when you have this,
you know, right type
of mindset in place.
I think that answers
your question.
Yeah, no, that's a
great answer.
That's a great
answer.
Yeah, I think
you're right.
And I think you
framed it in a way
that really makes a
lot of sense to
So yes, more
referrals.
This is the
answer.
More networking.
I think what's
amazing about
networking and
amazing about what
we're trying to do
in so many good
businesses talking
to good people and
good businesses
talking to good
businesses is
insulate ourselves.
We want the
referrals and we
want the insulation
from bad stuff.
And so you're
establishing.
Can you hear our
guy?
I can hear him.
Can you not?
I can't hear
anyone.
Uh oh.
Well, I've been
rugged.
So come back.
We will be here.
Jeremy, keep
talking.
All right.
I can hear you.
Well, I guess I'll
repeat that for him.
But so what about
you?
I liked your story,
actually.
That was that was
interesting.
You know, turning it
around.
I think often people
are afraid to be
playful.
Right.
You know, we make
it serious and it's
like it's like a
comic.
When you tell a
comic, you can tell
a bad comic because
a bad comic is
self-conscious and
the audience responds
to it.
But when the comic
just embraces the
goof, they're good.
You love them.
Right.
Even when they make a
fool of themselves,
they're just
laughing at
themselves and
you're laughing
with them and
everything's OK.
Right.
And I think asking
for referrals and
doing business in
those ways, just
embrace, just
step forward, have
some fun with it.
Everybody wants to
have fun.
Yeah.
So I love that.
Yeah.
Everybody wants to
have fun.
And, you know, I
mean, so the whole
dance thing is an
interesting thing.
I wanted I really
wanted to get
Toad's perspective
on approaching
like larger
organizations, not
just networking in
and of itself and
kind of how they
work together.
But, you know, in
dancing, there was a
there was an element
that made everything
easier, actually.
And that is the fact
that I have 45 minutes
of conversational time
to build relationship
with these people
during the dance
lesson.
And one of the
best things you can
do as a dance
teacher is to get
somebody in a pattern
of movement and
then distract them so
they're not thinking
about it.
And it forces it into
what we like to call
our muscle memory.
Right.
So me creating a
conversation with them.
First of all, they're
completely disarmed
because they're trying
not to think about
their feet.
I get crazy
information that
sometimes I wasn't
even trying to get
out of them because
like literally things
spill out when they're
in that situation.
So it really created
a very like, like I
said, it kind of just
made everything.
I was I was definitely
in control of the
situation because I was
the only one comfortable
in it.
And it was like it was
like a sales superpower.
It was like it was
pretty incredible.
But yeah, I really
wanted to hear
Toad's perspective on
networking to bigger
organizations and the
idea of like bigger
organizations as
opposed to like.
You know, and I guess
he kind of did that in
that sense of just like
talking to business
leads.
But yeah.
Anyway.
Yeah, I think
one thing that that I've
noticed in how we speak
to different people in
different roles is
one thing that we've
noticed is
it's not always easy to
converse on whatever
level they want you to
converse on.
Right.
Initially, I've seen a lot
of people coming in.
They're very used to doing,
you know, just chatting
from one person to
another.
But now they're chatting
with, you know, the head
of a business who wants
specific types of metrics.
And we use terms like,
well, we want to
implement a low lift
solution and
whatever else we might
say.
That's very corporate
jargony.
I think embracing it is
important.
Oh, is Toad back?
No, I think he
told us to take it home
in our message app over
here.
Yeah.
So I think embracing it is
very important.
And when we when we
embrace it, sometimes we
don't do perfectly, but we
learn very quickly as long
as we're open.
Right.
It's not even bad to ask
for feedback.
Hey, what did I miss?
You know what?
You know, I mean, if you
don't hit, you know, if it
doesn't go all the way
through, that's OK.
Go back.
Have a real chat with
them.
Say, hey, what could I
have done better?
A lot of times people are
really willing to chat with
you and tell you what you
could have done better.
That openness to
communication and that
ability to to interact on
that level, I think, really
helps out a lot.
Yeah.
And always remember it.
I mean, you know, if
you're if you're entering, I
think that's a pretty good
point.
You're entering something
that's like a little bit
more corporate than you're
used to and pitching to
those clients.
You are to get a lot of
jargon that you're not
used to.
But the reality is every
corporation uses jargon
because create internal
jargon.
And, you know, if it's
just greater corporate
jargon, you're going to
Google it.
You're going to learn what
it means and you're going
to go from that to
approach your next
client.
And if it's internal
jargon and you figure
out what it means, it
actually gives you a foot
up because now you know
how to communicate within
their internal language.
Yeah, absolutely.
So, yeah.
But I love the chat.
I'm definitely going to
wrap it up personally, but
I really appreciated both
of you chatting about this
and and talking about the
best ways to do this.
It's a great reminder to
all of us who are not
fully utilizing the
resources that we have at
our disposal.
The people we're already
working with, the people
already in our lives.
It's just it's a perfect
reminder to everyone
here, whether you're
trying to find new
business individually,
whether you're trying to
attract business to your
to your entity.
I mean, even finding
friends, this is a good
way of doing things.
Right.
So, yeah, yeah.
Good stuff.
And thank
everyone.
Paul, anyone
who ever wants to
chat, we are happy to
have people come up
here and ask questions
and, you know, kind
of talk about their own
experiences.
So feel free to come
join us any Tuesday,
Wednesday or Thursday.
And if you want to
chat, just request an
invite.
Fans, you just
beautiful.
Any last words, Brock?
No, I think that pretty
much wraps it up.
As Toad told us earlier,
record your progress.
Yes, it is the best
way to show what
you're made of in
the future.
Do a good job and
tell your boss about
But if Spring
Answers, our bosses
are all of our
clients.
So we can carry that
little tidbit of advice
over into our
independent work
careers just as well.
That's what your
portfolio is.
Do not shirk on
your portfolio duties.
And as a social
media guy, I'm going
to tell you, always
put it out on social
media.
All right,
everybody, much
love.
We'll talk to you
tomorrow.
Peace.
