Hey, Kelana, I really appreciate you hosting your stage and put some more eyeballs on RWA
Everybody knows I never wake up before 8 o'clock to drop my kids off
But now Kalani got me up at 6 a.m. I'm ready to get it man
Damn are you on PSD time zone then? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but like I don't care if it's RWA or D pin
I'll set the alarm and get up. So I'm hyped Kalani. I appreciate you man. Not fair enough, man
You know what? I'm on you UTC plus 4 now
So it's 6 p.m. For me right now and I'm not going to lie here all these you EST PST motherfuckers
I do you have a struggle connecting with most of them. So I appreciate you for for waking up so early
But let's move on. We've got digital who's our second co-host of the day. How are you doing, buddy?
I echo Scott and by the way Scott you don't blame Kalani. You can blame me
He asked if I nobody that I would recommend to talk about
I'm sorry, I'll be respectful our WA stuff and I said
Hit up Scott. He then gave you top billing and made you a co-host before me
So I'm also in PST so you can go fuck yourself
Now now for disclaimer, I just want to defend myself you arrived two minutes late
So, you know, somebody has to take the blame and it's not gonna be me
But yeah, thank you so much. My dog is my dog was climbing on my face, but good morning
And I'm excited for the conversation and now it's all good. Thank you so much for being here
Yeah, we're gonna do a quick run off. Hello's as well. I've got some awesome people. We've got duck
Maybe give us a 30-second. Hello and intro as well. I'll pass it on to you
GM GM GM. Thanks Kalano so much for hosting
Vigil always good to be on a stage with you brother really appreciate your support and Scott have heard absolutely nothing but the best
we've been we got Saul thanks to Fidgetl, we got Saul Loveman on the team and
Saul's salt speaks incredibly highly of you Scott. So yeah, I just I look forward to chopping this up
Obviously, we're starting our hype phase here. We're heading towards an NFT mint
We are a DeFi RWA based DeFi platform
Once we get up and running but we're doing this community building
An NFT mint thing and we have some unbelievable art
So we're we're kind of crossing some lines here and I look forward to getting into it. Thanks again for the for the opportunity
Let's go. You didn't say who's we but I'm sure you're talking about the Forge was also on stage
So let's pass it on you just missed it, but I'm telling you and guys he's talking about the Forge
Let's pass it on to Matt who is also one of our guests for today. How are you doing, man?
Profiles up there. I'm the guy speaking behind the Forge account
Feeling excited about getting into this space with you guys Kalano again
like we're developing a really awesome relationship with you super appreciate the opportunity and and
Coming up here with these legends
Can't say anything else besides that pump to get in into the conversation here
All right. Awesome. Thank you so much. We also got one more speaker
We're invited kind of last-minute and but with the will of William. I'm not sure it's part of the deep intent team
Sorry, so I thought it would be a good fit to have on and I've had you I mean
I've been on a space with you as well. You've dropped a lot of good insights. So how are you doing today?
I'm doing good. Kalana. Thank you so much for having me man. Seriously. I yeah
I did a I did a quick rebrand. So William will I'll and any of that's fine, man
I just I just figured I'd put my real name out there
Trying to merge my professional and web three lives together a bit more just because I've kind of kept them separate for some time
But I figured why not just you know, just put it all together
Finally, you know, let let let my boss find me, you know, not working for the traditional job here and you know
Find me on spaces, right?
No, but yeah, I'm building deep in daily out with Scott and we got lots of stuff cooking in the background
I'm just happy to be on board really love RWAs and deep ends and I'm really just about, you know
Spreading that knowledge and awareness. So again, just thank you so much for you know, having us up and yeah, let's let's get to it
All right. Awesome. Well, whether it's willed or William the common thing is always the W in there
So I think we can take that away with us
But we've got one more of our official guests
I think we're gonna give a little hello to NPM labs as well. How are you doing? Who is behind the account today?
Doing awesome. Thank you so much. Kelano for hosting us. It's MX M LN behind the current co-founder of
NPM labs. It's a pleasure to be here
Looking forward it for this amazing conversation for me. It's still a bit new public speaking. I'm not a native speaker
So please be patient with me guys
Love this panel and I'm super grateful to join the conversation with you guys
You are a native speaker man, whether it's English or a different language. It doesn't matter
Alright, we've got we've got some people who just hopped on and requested to go on space sauce on space some invaders
I'm gonna start with Fred. How are you doing? I haven't seen you or heard of you for at least three weeks
Now you're you're back in your home countries
Chasing chasing beauties, you know, so how are you? Oh
Man, thanks for passing the mic Kelano
Yeah, guys Kelano is the kind of guy that will book a call with you on your calendar
But then we'll tell you I'm actually hosting the space and that way we'll sigh up you onto his show
But I would love to support you man. This is amazing initiative
Yeah, I'm a spaces kind of guy. I organize a lot of spaces
I'm helping X co-hosts together with our super spaces network to build the biggest speaker network in web 3
We have a lot of conversations happening and see a lot of hype around deep in RWA and I'm actually here to learn
So, you know Scotty and fidgetle are some of the favorite people that I learned from in the space and always excited for a conversation
Like this. So let's let's keep jamming
No more no more Sims Colano that sounds it sounded like a show but we love you we love you
All right. You know what? We've got two more people on stage, but I'm just gonna go to some questions right according to us
Cody I'm gonna give you a second a chance in a second, but I just want to get started
It's already 10 minutes in and the speakers on stage are doing a lot of shit, you know
So I want to make your time valuable
But first of all, I mean what the fuck is RWA, you know
We can explain it in 30 seconds for the people who maybe just jumped on spit on on the stage because they know one of us
But may not have a real good understanding of what real world asset means
So maybe I'm gonna start with you Scott. It's kind of a hot potato. But how would you describe RWA in in a short-term size manner?
Yeah, really you could you could make it easy and be like it's you know
It's anything tokenized literally from the low-hanging thing from a Pokemon card to something very, you know
High functioning like a collateral settlement or something, you know in the in the financial sector
but yeah, I would say, you know RWA is obviously a real-world asset, but to
To break it down in buckets too because I think the space is kind of confusing it all as one
When I think you know machine RWAs are a little bit different
We get that get into that later
But you know just just a very high-level quick thing
It's when you know, you can control
actual machines like Tesla car and make the make the machine make its own decisions and and you know
Go talk to the smart contract itself. So that's gonna be a little different than you know, tokenizing a Pokemon card
But then you got something like what Cody's up here doing. He's tokenizing a commodity like uranium
So yeah, even those real world assets. It could be a Pokemon
It could be tokenizing uranium. It could be tokenizing a machine RWA
So there's a lot of different buckets and I'm glad you asked that Kalana because a lot of these
The lot of the spaces I'm seeing that don't do RWAs
They're just kind of like having it all in one and it kind of gets a little confusing for listeners
So even though it's all RWA, obviously, I think you can break it down in a few different buckets
Yeah, no, totally because I have to say that my first and so far on the involvement in RWA
Is actually owning a Pokemon card. So I think that was a fitting example that you gave here
I got to say it's actually a pristine card by the way, just to flex on it that I got for Christmas
So that's that's how I personally got involved. I've got so many questions around, you know, the
Loans that are going through the RWA
System and all that so I have a lot to ask but you said something pretty cool and Cody is
Doing something in the RWA ecosystem with the uranium. It did I hear that correctly Cody?
All right, we are not getting Cody
So that's fine. Cody when you when you're back with us, just put your hand up
But we've got William with a hand up. So what's up and give us your take
Yeah, I was gonna say that probably was not your first interaction with RWAs because technically stable coins are RWAs
So anyone holding stable coins here is holding
RWAs essentially because you have a token that's representing a real-world asset, which is the US dollar
But yeah, I think looks like Cody's back. He's got his hundred percent up. So Cody go ahead and give us your take on uranium, man
Yes, so I'm on the commodity side of RWAs and
The important part about real-world assets, especially in the crypto space is giving access
To either things that retail has not been able to own before
Like uranium which they can but it's tough
jurisdictionally to own it or other commodities like gold and silver where you have a
Very liquid market for them and you can stay on chain and own these commodities instead of going through a broker
So this kind of opens up the door for a whole new
asset class and a whole new wave of retail to own assets that every generation knows about
But now they can just own it on chain in a more liquid market
Right and that's actually something I wanted to kind of touch on which and I'm going to be honest
You know, I am doing this space to get as much knowledge as I can because I am NOT the most knowledgeable person on here
So I am happy to be the person asking for the new questions
But you know, I was kind of looking into so recently well recently
I'm saying a few months ago a guy who made some of you may know called Cyrus on Twitter
I mentioned that he basically gave a loan on a maybe a Rolex like some expensive watch effectively, right?
and the watch is basically held in some vault somewhere where they do the verification and all that stuff and then he
Lends some money to the person to effectively take a loan on their watch
And I think that's something that maybe to me sounds pretty interesting because what you mentioned here about, you know access to very quickly
Liquidity is I think one of the more interesting things that with three can can really help with you know
the blockchain and and all the liquidity that we see across whether it's you know,
USDC or liquidity pools and all that stuff
I find it fascinating because you know if you're into the art for example in the art world
I mean even if you have the Mona Lisa if you want to sell it
You know the challenge to sell a piece of art is going to be super difficult or even take a loan on your piece of art
Is going to be a big challenge for multiple reasons, you know what?
And I think whether he's kind of solving that problem
So I'm gonna throw a question maybe I'm gonna go to you fit it all because I think you've got a bit of knowledge
You know, like do you think our WA is going to enable?
You know finance commodities in in the sense that
Liquidity is going to be so much more available and so much easier to get
For people who have real-world assets aka, you know watches maybe uranium gold silver
You know and and also without the need to go through centralized banking system, which can be very long
It's obviously not anonymous and in web 3
This is kind of like all put aside and as long as someone is willing to lend you money, then you can borrow money
So these are always interesting conversations for me. I
Actually genuinely never thought I'd be having these conversations
I've been doing fidgetles for I think six years now
It was all bundled in the word fidgetles for a long time as we fumbled through what that meant
And we hadn't really siloed things. So I would be having conversations about injecting synthetic DNA
into plastic molecules to track
plastic credits for the impending
plastic fines and at the same time we'd be having conversations with sovereign nations about
We spoke to El Salvador and we spoke with Honduras and we spoke with
Jamaica all all the different solutions or different problems or opportunities to be solved with
RWAs, I guess we'll call them now or fidgetles or asset-backed
They had problems with mudslides
And they would lose land boundaries and I think 60 to 70 percent of disputes in Honduras were due to
And then fighting over over land
So 60% I believe of land transactions were not taxed because people didn't want their boundaries messed with and they had their own internal government
Throughout Honduras and in Jamaica the almost their entire economy is off of their commodities
Largely marijuana and coffee
So we were they were we were talking about commoditizing the entire economy
So they could track and understand their business also tax
To answer your question with it
It makes complete sense that there you would have access to liquidity if you have value locked up in an asset
You should be able to get access to that at any at any point you want it
Which is kind of what our W RWAs reflect to a large degree
The issue that we're going to be facing that we've always faced is legalities and regulation. So when you're fighting institutional
Right that that's what crypto has been fighting and governments which which are intertwined with banks you're dealing with
Regulatory issues with regards to accessing the liquidity that you should have free access to because of institutions and money that have built
stopping that right so banks control the real estate industry and
they're going to fight their asses off to stop you from
Doing things like what what the forge is doing or I don't mean to imply any shade whatsoever. It's just
It's not just crypto that's pvp the world is pvp when it comes to money so
Yes, I see a world eventually where as we always called it putting all the liquid assets on chain and by definition that means
tracking controlling having access to full liquidity, but it's going to be quite a hurdle to fight the
The the nascent existing industries that have built their businesses off of that. So
We started years ago by doing, you know the crypto thing offshore
I'm going to partner with the the government of palau
Commoditize and tokenize the in-ground gold in australia
As we see regulation becoming clearer, we're seeing rwa's
And that's my thesis that as regulatory clarity comes
Rwa's by definition will flourish dramatically based on that regulation
Now that's a very interesting point and
You know when you talked about like the cannabis industry in jamaica and you mentioned another industry, you know
like what what comes to my mind here is
For a lot of third world countries represent a pretty large portion of the planet effectively
Um, you know, they don't have access to banking systems, right or the banks in you know
My wife is from nigeria and she tells me in nigeria. They are out of currency. They're out of fiat
You know, they have no cash right now
Kind of like I don't want to say bypass because as you said the governments are always going to be keen to have an eye
But is it kind of an opportunity for you know
People who are in places and countries where the banking system is unreliable or just straight up shit, you know
To kind of get involved in a financial
In a financial system that could you know have strong incentive and obviously at some point give them
Financial freedom if if they do things well, if that makes sense
So i'll go this will be my last
Quick rant and it is about the the interplay and I believe by the way that the future is the interplay between functionality and finance
And i'll give you a quick example
There was an issue in south africa the south of south africa where most of the wool the world comes from and uh
chinese national companies had come in as everybody knows, uh
The modern silk road that v chain has been helping build and fight simultaneously
If you don't know v chain is the granddaddy of fidgetles and and rwas
And the the chinese national companies had taken over the ports
Commerce in south africa had also gone as far as hiring raiders to steal the wool
That was being made by by native south african farmers, and that's how they made their living
What they did is they stole the the wool before it made it to the ports and then they would sell it as as
And they dropped the price of wool so dramatically that there was a a suicide rampage across the south african farmers
So we did is we we embedded nfts to track the wool to track the thieves and created a myth of of
Enforcement that actually saved lives in the south africa by putting wool on chains. So
It also commoditized the wool
So it was already sold before it hit the ports and the chinese people knew that so it would be it would be deemed
Sold and stolen. So if you check the nft, you would know that those were tarnished goods
slowly, but surely that increased the price back up of wool and and basically
refurbished that the wool industry would save lives. So I see the impact of nfts blockchain and and
Fidgetles or whatever you call it, but it's not just giving money to unbanked
It's giving money and power to unbanked people against money in power
So there's incredible upsides and opportunities
Hey fidgetle, even uh, I love what you said, bro, because
Like we talked about this already too fidget the the canyon farmer program
Like yo like gangsters, yo
Like not even just like like what we're talking like literally gangsters will come steal your certificate
And go sell it like on their version of the black market
So imagine you're a farmer you work all year and someone comes takes your certificate for the next year
Like this has been going on forever like on a mass scale like imagine you can't do your insurance
You can't plant your seeds next year. So farm star
They're like a leading distributor for fertilizer. They made a pilot that
rewards you in web3 tokens and it's also interoperable with like a different third-party services
So farmers can use it for insurance with these reward points
Uh, they could uh buy insurance for their land. They can plant the next years and they can even
Use, uh, this is really dope. They can use the points for ecosystem partners and like buy stuff, you know supplies
Or anything that they need for the farm
But the best part is you can cash out to fiat using m paisa
So like these people literally could just have their whole farm certificates
Everything just taken from them every year not could they could it happen?
And now they can literally get insurance cash out
Uh buy points with reward systems. So like what fidgetil said as much as we like our
uh, you know shit coins and and jpegs like
Rwa's like brings it back to like literally helping people like there's nothing. There's nothing behind. There's no secret sauce
It's literally an immutable ledger that is going to help so many people. So that's why i'm really bullish on rwa's and again
What fidgetil's talking about and then you know tokenizing like a pair of sneakers very different even though they're both rwa
So I think it's very important. Uh that that we uh, distinguished the the two
And i'm just gonna call on i'm, sorry
I'm, just gonna say I apologize if I if I talk along or chime in
It's been six years of waiting for these conversations and this shit gets me hard. So, thank you
Now that's all good. We love it. Uh, thank you for the details as well. Uh, but um
You made me forget what I was going to say. Oh, yeah, actually on, you know talking about the the farmers and all that I mean
You you mentioned we love our jpegs and stuff and you know for the last year i've been saying that I think you know
The jpeg market is going to be i'm not saying it's just going to diminish in size or you know
market cap but I think the jpeg market is over time going to represent a much smaller and smaller portion of
What we call web3, uh, and just like baseball baseball card is an extremely niche segment of the collector
Sector overall, you know, I think that's exactly where we are going with the jpeg market if that makes sense
But since we talked about pharma, I know you've got your hand up, right?
But I just want to pass it on to freaklin
Uh, i'm not sure that's how you say it because that's exactly what he's doing. So maybe tell us a little bit more about
How you use rwa in your business model with the hand and um and the chickens, you know
Yeah, thank you. And uh up here on stage with all these legends is awesome
And uh, yeah, we we saw exactly the same
Use case for nft technology and tokenizing agriculture
So we're in the consumable commodity industry
And so to kind of put it in a spectrum of size if you will
A lot of people are excited about the whole narrative around
gaming with this cycle talking about 24 25
Of gaming being like a big industry to look for getting tokenized and getting on the blockchain
Well, the entire gaming industry is what like 336 billion?
The egg industry alone is 136 billion
So we are tokenizing chickens on our property in el salvador
And so it's actually a business model
That my business partner has been a part of for generations
So his family has been farmers for three four generations there in el salvador. So it's a proven product
We're just tokenizing it and so exactly what you were talking about earlier
What this does is this creates a decentralization of opportunity for people that don't have traditional banking
That wouldn't ever be able to open up or start a farm like this
to be able to actually be a part of uh exposure to
Basically agriculture eggs and so we are selling eggs
Uh to help support our erc 20 token, um here on eth and uh, we're really excited about that as our first step
We actually have quite a bit of property around us that we're looking at expanding to and tokenizing multiple different assets of um agriculture
We're just going to keep it simple for now and start with chickens
So our nft's represent three chickens, um that are basically lifelong chickens
So if your chicken happens to uh off itself as agriculture things do
Uh, you have a free replacement automatically, so you will always have that exposure the nft always has that value
Associated with the the creation of eggs that then we sell to the local government. Um,
The largest super selectos is the largest like walmart slash, uh
Grocery store there and then um, I can't remember. I think it's like prime prime art
Maybe is the other one. So anyway, basically what we're doing is tokenizing, um consumable, um
commodities, uh from agriculture there in al Salvador
So I guess you're are you working with farmers there directly? Like how is that benefiting?
Who's looking after the chicken is my question and how are the people benefiting?
From that in term of you know, they're day-to-day living are they making money out of it? Like how does it work for them?
Yeah, so we're providing jobs. Uh, so it's our farm. It's our land. And so we're the ones that are building the buildings
Um, and that's kind of the the quipro quo as a doc would say from the forge, uh the give and get uh,
We uh provide opportunity for our investors to have exposure to agriculture and for us as a business
So going into an agriculture business like this having zero debt to be able to build a business is huge
We're going to be the second largest farm in al Salvador right from the beginning
And so we're going to be providing a lot of good jobs
And there's actually a huge need for domestic agriculture in al Salvador
The country is definitely getting cleaned up. And so that's incredible. But
Years, uh, there was a lot of crime and there was not a lot of domestic businesses
with all the different cartels
a lot of people really didn't want to go there to
So there's a lot of opportunity there a lot of market share to be had
And so there's a lot of demand already for our product
The government has actually reached out and are interested in working with us for an egg initiative
To actually feed all the prisoners there in al Salvador for the supply that they need from our eggs
So we'll be providing fair wages good work for people
As we expand as well as good food that is primarily imported right now
Well, I think the right word here would be that's excellent. Sorry guys. I'm a boomer. I just had to do it
All right, thank you. I appreciate and yeah, I mean providing jobs, you know, especially in in countries we
Which lack jobs and are not the safest and don't have the highest
Money is is obviously great. I'm gonna pass some hands. We've got fred who was first and then we'll go to william. What's up fred?
Rose I can't deal with the kilana dad jokes. I love him. I'm here for all of them
Uh, yeah guys, I hate to be the guy to bring it up, but maybe it'll bring down fidget's boner
Uh, maybe we can talk about that. But um, yeah, it's obviously not all sunshine and roses, right?
So i'm thinking if we have our jpegs on chain, you know
We get hacked someone steals their ape, you know, I can still use that ape as my profile pic, whatever
But it'll be sad, right? Um, but now what if we tokenize an entire building?
You know and our wallet gets hacked
Does like ownership now transfer to it or like how what are you where you guys take?
Fred fred fred i'm glad you asked. It's my brother bear
So we can even put this on vigil. We talk about that. We can talk about chain link, you know
So we didn't talk about chain link this whole time. Um, so they have something really cool called the ccip
Uh, basically like I don't want to be real nerd out. Just think of it
It can move tokens safely across chains on or off as well
Uh, it has stuff like a proof of reserve
Uh, so basically like fred like i'm going to know that you really have
What you say that you have?
Another thing is really cool is uh
The the ccip can automate triggering when specific events occur
Um, so obviously it could be a safety net. It could be a trigger where a settlement goes through
um, another cool thing is uh,
They have like a network a safety network inside their friend where things go on
In through the safety network and out of it. So
You can't just really like steal somebody's house if you have
Uh, the chain link ccip hooked up to it because it's it's it's like a picture of it, right?
It's it's like it's like i'm showing you this but like it's not the token to the actual
Like house so if I got official took my wallet like you can't just go walk into my
Tokenized house that you know that that's on chain
um, and then uh, also, uh, they have deco proofs for uh identity data they have uh,
Extraction abstraction layers
Uh, so enterprises can secure interactions with any blockchains in one instance as well. Uh, so yeah, there's a lot and that's just chain link, right?
There there's other there's other things that could do this kind of stuff
But chain link is like why you see vodafone
JP morgan all these different, you know big high-end financial institutions, uh using the ccip
Let me just add to that. Um
infancy of smart contracts
That and when when I say infancy, I mean infancy. These are not smart contracts. These are these are blank receipts for the most part
Um, you're gonna see standards coming out and standards that already exist
Um that people just don't use very very much yet because they haven't found their financial
Uh sunlight if that makes sense
Quality use of things like soulbound soulbound tokens, uh, uh parent daughter, uh relationships
You know about sassy that we created that that's a beginning step of
Of chains of contracts that aren't necessarily distributed in the way that you think of nfts, right?
There's two steps to nft. There's an issuance on chain and then there's distribution essentially
um, so you're gonna see a lot of um,
I guess for lack of a better word fuckery on the on multiple layers of chains. I mean of
Contracts, so the the days of wallets getting drained
Um, and and you're correct the more value and this is kind of the the basic premise for different chains, right?
different chains are likely going to reflect the different value proposition of the assets on those chains and therefore the the
controls and mechanisms that you implement much like a trade-off from consensus and safety so
Things like bitcoin will be used for stores of value
Like it's supposed to be where you're if you're trading a property you can wait
A you know a day if that's what it comes to in terms of congestion as we get towards habitings
Because it's and pay, you know three thousand dollars because it's worth the cost of securing that asset and you'll see smart contracts of surrounding that
That that get rid of the the concerns. So yes, well, we probably see at the beginning people's houses getting stolen
Yeah, and then there'll be a lawsuit in the real world and it'll come out that it was stolen and you can't just steal
So we're going to see fidgetle blends of enforcement
Which is super important to bolster
What I saw during the bull which was some of my big law friends sending me
Lawsuits that they won. They were default judgments against wallet addresses
So identity and reputation are certainly super important as we increase the value propositions the assets that we're putting on chain
That is super interesting. And yeah, I mean that's a great question from pride first of all and
You know like I like to make this discussion as simple as possible
And you know, you you all are so knowledgeable that I feel like I know nothing and that's a great place to be to be honest
But I want to make it like take it to a simple approach, right? So
When we talk about rwa and you talk about houses and all that stuff, right?
So i'll give the example of you know
When you get into crypto like most likely you're going to open an account on binance because it's centralized. It's super safe
You don't need to want it you just sign up and that's easy, right?
And then once you get a bit more into it, then maybe you're going to start using a decentralized exchange
You're going to start bridging on orbiter and all that stuff instead of doing swaps in your in your binance account, right?
So I want to maybe take the same approach, you know
So we look at pokemon cards as a super simple, you know, I understand that right the card is held somewhere
Is verified by someone and and then it becomes an nft and I can buy it and then I can redeem that card, right?
So for houses, how does that work, you know from a valuation standpoint?
And I think there are a few more variables, you know for a house like for example
Um, I don't know, you know the roof of the house
There is a big storm and the roof of the house breaks down and needs some repair
So the valuation of the house may fluctuate just due to market condition or you know repairs and all that stuff
So like how does that work from an evaluation standpoint if that makes sense?
I'll maybe i'll just throw it back to you fidgetle and then we'll go to some hands after
Sorry, if you don't mind making the question a little more concise
Yeah, like how how does the valuation of you know, real world asset like a house work for
When it's tokenized because it could be 400k when it's evaluated the first time and then in two years from now
You know the roof has been blown up. So then there is repairs need to be done and all that stuff
I think you mistakenly actually highlighted two problems with crypto one. Hopefully there'll be no speculation
Connected to a real world real world assets because that could be disastrous
That's speculation that will exist. So
Most of the people in here and most people talking about RWAs are actually talking about speculating on the tokens connected to the business
And I think it's I think it
for real world real world businesses and the potential future of
This vertical which is always a problem and second of all
The tokenization of that asset should have nothing to do other than the value proposition of the asset at any given time. So again
The time differential of value propositions of tokens is an issue. I don't think everything should be tokenized
I think it presents massive problems
Both legal and financial and functional for businesses imagine selling a product
Imagine if the issues of web3 where we sell things that don't have any intrinsic value and by web3
I mean let's just make simple pfp and ft web3
We're dealing with this in non-physical assets where we accept the speculative nature and the risk
associated with it that is not okay when it comes to
Medical records. It's not okay when it comes to property. It's not okay when it comes to
physical assets that are playing pivotal roles in our economies and our functional realities imagine trying to
Unwind in a state or or go through a divorce proceedings when you're dealing with assets
It could be worth one thing one day and and three times out the next day. So
The question that you're asking is something that
Fundamentally needs to be included right and so very interesting correlation look at docs project, right?
Some could argue it's not sexy. It gives a fixed rate of return. We don't want fixed
I want to know if i'm going to make ten thousand
or or or or straight to zero, right so
RWAs do require a bit of sobering in terms of
How we're approaching the industry and I do think that it's a bit irresponsible
For RWAs that are launching tokens that are speculative in nature
Now i'll repeat that I don't I don't just think it's it's irresponsible
I think it's a grift and I think people should be very
Careful about what they're getting into and understand if they're speculating on a token
And and just to be clear what that means is that you believe that somebody else will believe that somebody else will believe that somebody
Else will believe that somebody else will believe that that there's value to that asset
right versus buying a token because you believe that the company will succeed and the token representing a portion of the value of that
Company is a good asset to invest in so please be careful about what you're looking at
Don't buy the fucking metaverse to the moon and cars on on mars
rwa bullshit this round, please
Thank you for the analogy now that makes a lot of sense and it's clearly the education that i'm looking for
So thank you for for the clarification
I'm gonna pass to you some hands. But before that we are 40 minutes in which means it's time to reset the room
Uh, and i'm just going to let you know as well that today's space is sponsored by the forge who are giving away
25 whitelist spots. So if you're on a whitelist spot, uh, the
The way to get a whitelist spot is pretty simple. You gotta repost the space
And uh tag uh, no hashtag forge list in the comments
And then I will check that at the end of the space
And you can get a little whitelist spot for the upcoming mint
Uh, and also, you know retweet the space just for the love. We have some great minds here sharing some good knowledge
So let's make sure we get as many people as we can
Back to the space. We are going to some hands. I think william you've been you've been waiting for a while
And you were the first so i'm going to go to you. What is your take? Give it us give it to us
Yeah, I um, originally I had a question for uh for franklin about the about the hens but uh,
But we'll move on I guess i'll i'll get back to that
Um, you you asked a really good question about about how how does the the value of the tokenized asset?
Translate to the the real world asset itself
And that's something that the um, the federal reserve is actually they wrote a they wrote a uh,
Sorry, the board of governors for the fed wrote a recent paper back in like september
Talking about like the benefits and also the pitfalls of tokenization
And that was one of them. It was one of the one of the like the concerns
They had was that there would be a large decoupling
of of um of the price between these these like tokenized these tokens that represent the asset as well as the asset itself
Because the asset itself typically if it's like a real estate if it's a piece of real estate
Or if it's a pokemon card or anything like that. That's like not super liquid
You have these highly liquid markets in tokens
And so the price of the token could drastically differ from
Set asset in terms of uh in terms of uh redemption time
And so like if i'm redeeming that token
If i'm redeeming my token to collect the real asset
By the time like that real asset comes and the redemption process goes through
The price of it can be drastically different
Because of all the volatility happening in said markets for tokens
So that's definitely a concern
But that's also part of the reason why I think a way to fix that is
at least in current standards is to
Obviously have like a modicum of of control like a degree of control
In centralized third parties basically assisting in those efforts
And so if your nft does get drained if your real estate, you know
Asset or my my property deed does get stolen from me via a wallet drainer
Like that person doesn't automatically own my house because there's still a set of rules and regulations in between the redemption process there
That allows me to kind of you know, go to the regulatory body and say hey listen, I was drained
I'm the actual owner of this house
I need you to nullify that nft for me and generate a new one for me
And like that that's kind of like how that process will work for now. I foresee
Um in the future we we might be able to automate that away a bit more
Um, but that that's my take on, you know, how do we solve, you know price discrepancies as well as uh, ownership claims
Um for said tokens to real world asset, but my question for the the the was it franklin?
Yeah with the tokenized chickens in all seriousness too, man
Is it possible? Can I redeem?
A token for a chicken if like I wanted to pet chicken
Uh, maybe when the logistics and the the process of international goes goes big with supply chain
Maybe we'll be able to to supply some chickens that way because we will actually have incubators on property to ask it or to answer it
Um, so we will actually be minting our own chickens to be able to self expand our farm
Um, but no, we're just going to be supporting central america unless you live in el Salvador then then maybe we can
Work on giving you some access to uh, some chickens. I love in florida. So it's close enough, I guess but um, yeah
But we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. Thank you for that answer, man
That makes sense that you're flirting with that question
What do you mean access to some chickens?
Like like redeeming the the chickens
So like, you know how you can redeem a token for something you can redeem the token to get sent a chicken
Just like how I can redeem a token for a pokemon card and get sent a pokemon card
Oh, I got your phrase. I just was commenting on the choice of words
All right now that makes sense and yeah, we're i'm not getting eggs i'm not getting eggs
I'm not getting chicken delivered to my house and i'm a hand holder. So
You know, there's a bit of temptation here, but let's let's move on
Actually, I just want to bounce on on one thing you said here william which was really interesting
You know you talked about if
Your house token gets stolen. You can obviously say hey, you know, this is actually my house
My wallet was drained etc
So, you know that really means that there are regulations in place to do that, right?
And I think it was scott. We talked about regulations earlier on
And I mean they were coming, you know
The the scc is breathing down our neck all the regulations for for way three to really flourish
I think need to happen in one way or another and when I was working at binance, you know
Cz was very clear that we need more regulation. So like what is your what's your thoughts on?
Where we are going in term of crypto regulation are doing our wm regulations?
You know not just for not just to make sure we pay taxes, right?
But to make sure the space is safe for new people to come in and feel like
You know just like you said, you know, they're not going to get drained and lose everything
Do we need more regulation and what where do you think we're going with that?
Yeah, I mean honestly, it's it's no doubt
We definitely need more regulation and rules like more clarity on how to operate in the space because without that you have lots of
Just like lots of kind of wandering in the dark
Like you have like lots of people just like throwing darts at a board trying things and then there's lots of grifters in the space
That scam lots of people and there's you know, there's actually legit businesses that don't know how to operate effectively
America specifically like in europe obviously you're already seeing businesses kind of you know
Are like new businesses are being born over there because of the mica bill and what that's doing for them
They actually have like a road map on how to navigate their business and do it
You know and do it in a legal manner without worrying about the legal ramifications of their government coming down and saying hey
Listen, your business is defunct. You're you're all criminals. You're going to jail and we're finding you a ton of money
And so until we get that in america, we're not we're really not going to see any of this like pop off in the state side
But also when it comes to security and when it comes to protecting retail investors and like the small person, you know
They have a little person you need you need um, you need regulations in place to basically guide them
Through the world of web 3 in a sense and also kind of help shape web 3 to make it easier to
You know easier to use as well as um more legally compliant
Um, I would say in the future. I definitely see more
Permissioned chains and permissioned tokens be anything because uh, I mean, I don't know if you've already seen it happening
Um, but we have erc. We have erc tokens in proposal right now that are extremely permissioned
You know, like there there's permission tokens coming out
That allow the issue of the token to have said control over that token, you know that they can they can take it from you
They can you know, they can do whatever they want to it
And you kind of need that control to allow the until uh, the government needs that control to allow these kinds of things to exist
Um, but you're also not getting rid of the permissionless chains like ethereum, you know, ethereum has so much capital locked on it
If for the government to try to shut it down, it would cause like huge economic chaos
So I feel like we're gonna have like a hybrid of like permissionless chains with permission tokens or like permission subnets
Kind of like what avalanche is doing. Um, and kind of like a mix of both that that's the future. I envision
Hey, william. You already know what's coming your fate. My favorite chain that uh, i'm just like, well me and william
We always talk about uh, uh, jp morgan's, uh private chain onyx
Uh, and then you got like things like kinto, right where you have to kyc and aml before you can even use the chain
And then i love what william said too about uh, the standard right so shout out to the ethereum foundation
There they just passed the eip. I think it's 75 40. Sorry
I'm not a contract guy, but it's basically going to be like the rwa standard for a lot of things william
Um has brought up so uh and shout out yo i'm gonna be mean to america, you know, because i'm in california
We're gonna literally watch every country pass us up like shout out indonesia
Um, they're their vice president is already making rw
Like trying to make the rwa law for for because there's so much farmland out there
And like I think they're partnered with farm cent and a few others. So here we go again
Like I like i'm in california so it's digital
We live right next to the dust bowl where this could like really like change every single fucking problem in california
But no, we can't sell land. You can't do these things with hectors
Uh, you know just because we're in america, but indonesia
Vice president literally got like elected like a week or two ago and it's already making the framework for rwa laws out there
So if you're thinking agriculture or any of that stuff like looking at indonesia, man, like they're ready to go
So yeah, hopefully america can can catch on because this is like I think we're ninth in volume for a lot of stuff
Ninth and tenth, um, that's not gonna cut it
Sorry, go ahead. A never gonna happen. Unfortunately, the us is going to continue to lag behind
fortunately, unfortunately
You can thank ripple you can thank coinbase
But the the real truth is until this industry starts suing the government and standing up which is happening in small cases
It should start on a local level
So if you care about crypto care about who you're who you're uh, electing on your local levels
That's the best way to impact change
And to scott's point first of all, thank you for doxing my location where we didn't discuss that beforehand. Um, but
I would say that in terms of
In in economic cycles crypto has provided more opportunity for foreign governments than individuals
To level the playing field than any than any technology before
Uh, and rwa is a perfect example of it. It's literally government saying that
We don't want you to unlock the liquidity that is sitting in your country
Literally, that's what it's saying. So any country that can that can hyper liquid, uh, uh, liquitify
Well add hyper liquidity via the assets they already have without having to create new assets
Doesn't have to deal with the u.s. Infrastructure and the cost of building that out, right? Like, uh,
tether I believe did more
Again, like scott said he's not a he's not a contract guy
I'm not a fax guy at six in the morning
But tether did either more some crazy numbers compared to like jp morgan with like one one thousandth of the employees
So talk about loving the playing playing field in terms of uh,
This is this is a game changer for any country in the world and I mentioned palau earlier as a joke
But palau was one of the first country. It's a mini teeny country off of off of indonesia and australia
But they've been wed three like from from the king and queen down
For years and years and years now and they've built their country off of this infrastructure. So
Um, it's not a this is not a pipe dream. This is reality
Yeah, that's very interesting
But you guys are making me think that the richer the country the less incentive they have in in taking on web3
But by the sound of it is that is that a fair take because the us
100 percent and and the counterbalance is it's a counterbalance of entrenched human and financial capital
And the ability right that's why you're seeing portugal. That's why you're seeing
Spain that's why you're seeing south american countries the the flight of human capital
Has has not been seen like this since the end of world war ii
Yeah, that makes a lot especially in the go and career especially in the crypto space in the last four to five years
You know spaced in new york for eight years and work in crypto that whole time
and over those eight years, I mean
Every company I can imagine that worked in that space from the bitcoin license becoming a thing
Um, they drove out so much specific crypto capital two places like lisbon
We're actually seeing a massive
Rebirth, I would say back into the us over the next four years with people like missari
leading the way in the political landscape, so hopefully they keep up
that that tension on there because that'd actually be nice to see because
All of my friends including myself have left the states to build these projects and do it at a very rapid pace
So cody actually just partnered with the new chain called rails
Uh that i'd love to introduce you that does it that does the same thing. It's kyc and aml for all node operators and
Permissioned developers. So I agree wholeheartedly with william and cody. We're gonna see a lot more and again
Uh, this space is about decentralization, right? Decentralization for those who've been here long enough and remember the porta rico days
Uh is about sovereignty, right? So
at the end of the day like free speech
We forget that you can say whatever you want
But people can say whatever they want back to you as long as it's protected
Same thing with with decentralization is people are going to be able to choose
their levels of decentralization, so
Again, like william said you'll have kyc and aml chains and and the the assets and businesses and resources and people
That want to fall into the that ecosystem will make that decision at that point and
Fully decentralized provisionless chains will exist as well for the exact opposite purposes. So
But regulation is great. I agree
Yeah, you you kind of answered the my follow-up question about that
Are we going to stay decentralized in this ecosystem since you know, there are more regulations coming more governments getting involved and all that stuff
Uh, but i'm gonna pass some hands where you just put your hand down doc. Are you bring it back up? Give us your take
Hey guys, awesome space so far. I literally have like three pages of notes. Um
from the opening take uh, what's an rwa like all the way down through so, um
I don't know like I but I mean it's the the the conversation has all been connected
So like I do I want to go back to like like give you know
Give your 30 second or you know real brief explanation. What is rwa?
The way I think about is rwa is anything is anything that's not natively on chain
So like literally anything that's not on chain
Um, and then tokenized rwa is anything that we have found a way to bring on chain
and then there's been a lot of conversations about
um chain link and valuations and oracles and all those things and that really is that's
fundamental to rwa like we have to realize that
Because rwa by definition is something that's not natively on chain
That means somebody needs to tell the blockchain
You know about the value about the ownership about the transaction
One of the little phrases we've been using is this idea of decentralization by degrees
And it was literally we just finished on this topic is you're going to have permission to chains
They talk about some new erc stuff that's coming out. But like erc 1400 already exists
Right. So that's erc 1400 is the security token standard
And that's all like like I can take my existing like so my my background is in real estate private equity
So I can take my like existing
Exempt securities offerings which we do all the time in real estate private equity. I could do those on chain
That's that that already exists
But all i'm doing is i'm really i'm taking i'm taking a blockchain wrapper putting it around
You know a tradfi offering
Um, and and it's still going to be centralized
kyc AML all that stuff and some of it should be
Right. I think I think it was digital was saying people are going to make their choice
You know where on this spectrum they're going to operate
And and at the forge like my my thought at the forge is a hundred percent to provide
Anybody who shows up the opportunity to participate at any level?
So it's going to be the what I just mentioned there'll be an erc 1400
At some point here in the and then let's call it relatively near future like we'll do an offering
Of us based, you know regulatory compliant offering for anybody who wants to buy into the management company
And that'll be you know, that'll be an erc more than likely it'll be in the erc 1400
All the way to the other side
Which is we're endeavoring to build our staking platform and and when we build the defy platform
The staking mechanism to bring dollars in right to to stake your stable coins
We want that to be totally permissionless
I want you to be able to you know, come in with your usdc from wherever it is posted to the platform
You know claim it back with your with your interest earned or your staking rewards earned. Um, so, you know, there's
This really I mean you talk about blue sky and you know fidgetl says, you know
He's been at this for a while and he's pumped that you know
These conversations are really starting to happen with with people who are really building stuff
And uh, you know, i'm just i'm psyched to be right in the middle of it
There's so much I wanted to jump I jump on one thing i'm gonna say and then i'll and then i'll
i'll see, you know where it goes from here, but it's I think it's pretty rich somebody was um
Somebody was mentioning how the fed put out this paper about uh acid inflation
And i'm gonna tell you I think that's hilarious
So yeah, I was reading it and I was dying laughing
So like you're gonna so like there's not anything that's like a whole lot more uh illiquid than a barrel of oil
Right until until the commodities traders came along, you know
and then like and then like the the fed and and uh and the banking system literally like, you know conspired to make
uh real estate loans cheaper and and so
You know more and more and like, you know
There was this stated goal within the government to get home ownership up over 70 percent or something like that
They made you know, the whole mortgage-backed security market made that incredibly more liquid. And what did that create a housing bubble?
Right like like I mean, it's pretty funny now that the that the government that the fed
You know puts out this paper that says oh, watch out guys. Watch out. Don't over inflate your assets
Yeah, they said they're worried about price decoupling and volatility and I died laughing
Did you see what happened in 08? You know what I mean? Like
So anyways, I had to touch on those couple things there's a there's a bunch of other things too in there, um
But I love the conversation. I love the crew here
Um, you know, I think we mentioned it, you know, we're headed towards our nft mint
At the end of the month, but um, but it's a defi an rwa based defi platform that we're building
So we do have this pfp project, you know, the art is unbelievable. We are building a little community
The end goal is to build a defi platform
That uh that you'll be able to interact with at any at any level that you want to whether it's you know
Fully docked kyca ml and have some pretty cool opportunities
Or just show up and get a really solid return on your stable coin
Staking backed by sustainable yield, right? Like this isn't the next ponzi hoping somebody else buys it high or adds more liquidity to the system
The yield underneath in our staking platform will be driven by uh, the real world asset, uh investments in loans that we make
All right, can we can we one second one second? I just want to say scott has to go
So thank you so much scott. Um, where can we find you? Why should we follow you? You have 10 seconds?
Oh, yeah, man, uh, uh follow dpin daily
Uh, yo, my dms are always open if it's about rwa or dpin don't book a call and show me your project
But uh, yeah, man, i'm non-transactional when it comes to rwa and dpin
So if there's anything in my flywheel, I can help you with uh, hit me up or hit fidgetl
No, i'm just playing don't bother fidgetl. Uh hit me up and i'll hit fidgetl for you
All right. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time. Have a good day. Have a good space
I know you're hopping on we're gonna finish in two minutes as well
So maybe you can follow scott in a few minutes. Um, but fidgetl, I know you had your hand up following uh docs comments
So scott before you leave damn. Okay. I was I was gonna give a hot take
I'll pass your message. Okay. Um
So one of the funnest things in in web 3 is
how fast the the industry moves
And so you see code or tech or infrastructure built for one purpose that you never foresaw having
massive use in in other purposes
And so my hot take or what you should be looking out for is
In the same way that if you understand that an nft and I say this clearly
If you understand that nft is merely a digital receipt
attached to whatever it's attached to
Right, then you can look at what it's attached to and understand that those are assets period
As we get into rwa is one of the coolest things is going to be
Um later on in the nft pfp phase where traits were important
Uh, there were trait-based nft platforms. In fact, uh, I built one. Um, i'm not showing it because i'm
i'm focused on other stuff, uh, but
Trait-based nft projects are marketplaces
whereby you are assessing you're basically oracle you're becoming an oracle you're taking an information ie price
And then ascribing a value proposition to that over time by buy and sell mechanisms
Is going to be super interesting when it comes to physical assets meaning
These same marketplaces that are that are assessing value of jpegs
Are also going to be the marketplaces that are assessing the value of physical goods
So you'll be updating as you mentioned earlier kalana like car facts, right? You'll be updating. Uh damage to a property
Uh, or you'll be submitting a house that has you know, a six-year-old roof
Uh, not copper plumbing and those will all be
Democratized in terms of value propositions. So i'm super excited to see the defi and uh an nft
and finance products that we've created and their application to
Accurate pricing again taking out burgers and middlemen of real world assets that could be massive in the future
All right now that makes a lot of sense and
I mean i'm not the most knowledgeable around defi as well to be honest
Like i'm kind of a noob and you know, i'm happy to admit it. Uh, but i'm very much looking forward to
You know what is coming in the next two to five years because I think I don't know
maybe it was you or scott that said we are at the infancy of smart contracts and all that good stuff and
You know i've been in creative space for three years and I I feel like i'm an og
Which really says a lot about how early we're on in the space
Yeah, see you're laughing doc, but I think that's true, you know
Anyways, we are at the hour. I want to respect the time for our speakers. I know you guys are all busy
So I want to say thank you so much
You know fidgetle scott for co-hosting cody for coming the forge dark fred william matt npm lab
Freaking apparently that's not how you say your name. So, um, but that's just how i'm gonna say it for today
Uh, thank you. We call him freak
Freak all right. We'll we'll stick with freak. Uh, thank you so much everyone that was behind the builder
We do this space every week on uh every tuesday and it's usually going to be around 7 a.m
Est so it is a bit of an early one today
We just had to move later for those american nffers, but thank you everyone for tuning in
Thank you everyone for dropping some bomb of knowledge on uh the panel and we will see you soon and next week. Bye. Bye