Eddie, I'm going to stay on mute.
I'm just hanging out with you guys up here.
Who the hell's, uh, espresso?
These guys, they know, they know what time it is.
They know what time they, SMH, SMH, I think they're getting coffee ready, bro.
They're getting coffee ready.
They're getting coffee ready.
It's going to be a good one today.
We got music from, uh, we got music from English coming in.
So we'll get them a second.
He has the co-host, right?
It should, should be, uh, he starts around the corner.
It's like, it's like at 0.5 volume.
It's at like zero volume.
Well, what was it supposed to be?
I'm not going to say it now, dude.
I'm going to save it for next.
Are we not going to have music then?
I mean, like you want me to troubleshoot in real time?
In the meantime, while we, while we do this troubleshooting, uh, how are we?
Like it's going to take a second before we get things lined up and ready to roll.
We've got some good guests.
Well, at least one guest, potentially one special guest for tonight, but I'll get
Um, I'll get that situated as it comes.
I'm going to shoot out some messages shortly.
Just dependent on, uh, on whether or not I've got music to roll with, but if not,
This I'm going to give it one shot.
If it doesn't work, give me a thumbs up or just yell at me if it doesn't
It's no, I can, I can hear that there is a song playing like 60 yards away from
So I, you know, I do a daily show and it hasn't missed.
It hasn't missed this whole time.
Like, but every time that this fucking show comes on, um, I just fail.
Well, well, gm my friend.
Well, gm here, then let's do, let's do this.
Let's just rewind for a second.
I'm joined as always by my lovely and endearing co-host, uh, with a
questionable soundboard English dude.
Why, why do all my co-hosts have like these?
Like, is this like web three?
Like, like dudes say like, Hey, what's up, BB to each other.
And then like, I have another, I have another co-host that he's like, he
calls me like sweet English.
And then now like I'm your lovely co-host.
I guess there's just like this, um, maybe I'm just old dude.
Maybe that's just like what you, you young folk now.
Uh, I, uh, I express love dude.
Like I am, uh, so, so I am a, I'll be honest with you.
Like I, I'm a, when I'm drunk, um, which is not often.
I was going to say when, when, when we met in Miami, everybody was drinking
and you weren't drinking.
So, so very rarely, but when I am like last night, uh, I am, I am a lover.
Like I, I'm like, man, I love you.
That's like kind of what I came out on the timeline last night.
I don't, I, I, I don't want to see you on ecstasy, dude.
That would be kind of scary.
Uh, not just a lover, man, just a lover, but anyway, so yeah.
Let me just like do some, uh, do some housekeeping.
First things first, uh, we've got a guest coming up tonight.
I need to check exactly when they're going to come.
I would have sent the message if we had music, but whenever we'll get to that,
I guess I'm really upset about it.
I can kind of fill in for you guys.
The baby shark remix was ill though.
It was not, I don't think it was baby shark.
It wasn't baby shark, but I do.
I do get down with some baby shark.
I didn't know that there was a remix.
But regardless, so we we've got, um, we've got sharkified coming tonight.
It's funny enough that you say that we got literally sharkified coming,
which is exciting and super hype.
Um, that's Jacob who's on stage.
We'll get to you in just a moment.
So that we're going to talk about.
And actually the we'll note like full disclosure.
Um, I did invest in the TGE for sharky.
So that's why it's not that exciting for me.
Like I couldn't get into like an angel round or anything like that.
So it's a little bit less exciting for me as it is for you, but that's fine.
I mean, you had a big day though.
I spent money, my friend.
What are you talking about?
Um, that's actually, that's going to be my perfect little segue as I get to
So English, English, you made a big purpose purchase today.
Tell me about that for a sec.
I did make a big purchase.
So, um, well I'm going to give some context behind it, right?
So, you know, when things are pumping, things are feeling good, right?
Like it's easy to get into momentums.
You've been talking on the timeline about like green candles, you know,
we get, you know, green candles.
And then by the way, that post I learned today,
I'm going to be putting boobs on a lot of my posts going forward, dude.
I was like, it's fucking brilliant.
Gay, gay guys like boobs.
Women need straight guys.
Like everybody just likes boobs.
That reminds me of like the dude that's been like trending.
Um, he'll like show like something like that.
Like the first three seconds of his TikTok video that it goes straight
into a hard cut into like trading and crypto.
I mean, if you think about it, like if so, um, my father did jewelry
for a long time and did trade shows and when you go to Vegas and like
anytime there's like, you know, trade shows or any type of sales things,
they just have hot chicks.
Like it's just, it's a no brainer.
Like it's, it shouldn't have taken this long to figure out.
Anyways, going back to my story.
Um, so, so keep in mind that I minted five node monkeys, right?
So I paid 0.03 for three.
I don't get into the back.
I understood the value of it.
Um, and now it's, it's obviously pumping and it's, you know, doing really
You have apes, you know, like board apes coming in.
Um, most recently I think that's mostly probably cause Leo and the mutant
And, um, and then after a while it just takes a narrative of its own.
You know, initially there was like some big buyers.
Anyways, it doesn't really matter.
I took it one step further.
There was a project that I knew that really has the same fundamentals of
that, but it's just not as well known.
And that's Bitcoin shrooms.
Um, first P for not first 10 K PFP first PFP on Bitcoin.
Uh, they inscribed the first one was 19.
There's only 250 of them.
And so it's the same thing.
And so, uh, these were trading OTC and, um, it just, I went and I've been in
the discord for a year and I was looking at who bought them, right?
So the people that are in the discord, buying them, their punk holders,
their spirit Dow people, their boogles.
And so like, it's just kind of a no brainer at this point.
So like, if, if you take the thesis of a leverage bet on the ecosystem
itself, and I think that like you've mentioned, mad lads is for that.
Um, I, you know, punks, is it for aetherium?
Um, I don't know if prejudice so much because that's more execution risk,
but they're doing phenomenal, but really punks on aetherium, um, mad lads,
because of Armani and, and it's just all the devs and all the builders there
where it, I would even say on, on OMB, like it's kind of OMB kind of for
ordinals. Um, because you do have a lot of like, I've seen, you know,
talk to people in, in discord chats and telegram chats and a lot of the people
that are in the backend infrastructure, they do rock those.
But in terms of like, it's just art and provenance and you don't have to worry
about it. Um, it's, it was just really under priced. And so current last sale
was to BTC, um, on secondary and, um, volumes coming in and current floor
prices, 3.75 BTC. Yeah. You're like, it's really under priced.
The current floor price is checks, notes, like $180,000.
Well, I mean, it's, it's hard to, the market's going to tell you what the
price is, right? But the price that I got it for was less than the last sale.
I'll tell you that much. And, um, I, I would say my gut feeling, um, for this.
So I did call and I see espresso in the audience and I was on his show early,
you know, very, very early on. And he asked me, what do I think I go?
I think these trade at 0.45 when, um, frogs will come down to 0.15.
And this is when frogs were like 0.3 and, um, monkeys hadn't even minted and it's,
it's getting pretty close to that. So I like to think I have a pretty decent,
I think these will trade five to one to node monkey floor.
And, um, you know, we're, we're already at 0.4 and if these two X, you know,
and go into like that one BTC, I can see these in silly season for five BTC.
By the way, did you, did you sell any of your node monkeys in order to pick it up?
I did. I did. I did. Um, and in fact, I tried to delist one. Uh,
this is funny story. And I was at the gym and, uh,
it was my hoodie. So I minted a crown and the hoodie and the hoodie got swept up
in the pump, but I, I still, I'm still keeping the crown and, um,
pretty happy with it. Happy to hold.
So just, uh, just to be clear there, English for anyone that doesn't know,
acquired one of the, like, one of the most desirable ordinals that there are
today. So I'm happy for him. It's like, uh, congratulations on the buy man.
It is a Giga conviction bet to be clear, like a very high conviction bet,
but I mean, I, I, well, I mean, it is and it isn't. So it is in a sense.
So like, I remember you hadn't put a post and it was, oh, I just,
I just bought my second mad lad and someone was like, oh, well you,
you're crazy or I don't know, just made some kind of comment.
And you said I have a high risk tolerance and even,
even higher version to like potential profit. I forget exactly what you said.
I have a high risk tolerance and a low desire to regret.
Exactly. And so this was that low,
I don't know about the high risk tolerance and I just don't think it's that
risky compared to some other stuff. I'd rather buy this. Um,
I just felt like it was undervalued.
I feel like I could sell it right now and get a two X from what I paid for it.
So I just didn't really see it that high ever, you know, high of a risk,
but I was just worried about missing out really, which I mean,
translates into FOMO, but I just, yeah,
it was just kind of a no brainer to me.
Well, that's fair. So anyway, let's dive into things. Um, that's actually,
by the way, a really fascinating story.
And I did want to open with that cause I just think that's actually really
cool. Let's like, it's, it's, um,
it's rare that people go and go ahead and acquire,
we'll call them actual grails. Like that is of the ordinal Zico,
one of the actual rails. And I find that pretty interesting.
But one of the, one of the biggest, uh, one of the biggest, excuse me,
issues that I have with, with that personally is just like locking up too
much liquidity. However, um, and this is not me like making a complaint.
This is me just making a transition. That's actually what people, uh,
like the guys on stage with sharky are here to solve. But, um, anyway,
let me just do some, again, some ground rules. Guys,
if you guys are just joining us, welcome. This is overexposed. I am, uh,
I'm your host Eddie AKA dancing Eddie with English. And we, um, guys,
if you guys are enjoying the space, you know, the deal bottom, right?
Purple button likes and retweets. They do go a long way. So thank you.
If you choose to do so, but again, no worries if you don't totally. Okay. Um,
but again, thank you. If you do, it does actually mean a lot helps us out.
And it's, uh, it's big. It really is big. But yeah. And for today,
we've got a couple of things. One, we've got, we've got the sharky guys,
which, uh, we got Jacob on stage. We're going to toss to him in just a moment.
Uh, but we also, there's possibility possibility of a surprise special guest.
I have to text with one of my friends to see, um, if we can have him join,
if he does, it would be actually hilarious. Uh,
it would actually be one of the best, one of the best overexposed episodes for
sure. Especially given the context of what happened earlier this week.
And I won't mention anything, but yeah, let's see what happens.
We'll see. I'll, I'll shoot a message. I'll see what we can do.
But in the meantime, guys, if you're in the audience and you want to come up,
just, you know, raise your hand.
I would actually love to talk to a bunch of you guys. Um, and outside of that,
if you're on stage, you know, the rules, uh, we don't do all hands.
Like if you want to chat, you just chat, you just unmute and just be respectful.
It's all cool with me. All right. So let's dive into it. Jacob.
One of the biggest things that I've been noticing, right?
Like on the, on the back end, not on the back end,
just been noticing in chats with people is it is, um,
it is like, it is race season right now.
Like I, I feel like I'm just, you know,
not me personally necessarily,
but I feel like people generally are fairly inundated with just like
opportunity after opportunity after opportunity and just like things,
things are taking your attention. And, and for me, at least personally, uh,
also what's up stats. Good to see you, man. Uh, we'll,
we'll get to you in just a second.
Oh, oh, then, then we'll hop to you real quickly in just a second.
I'll just finish what I was saying.
There's been a ridiculous number of opportunities like throwing at your
Sharky was one of my favorites to get to.
I will say Jacob, I was going to hop straight to you,
but I do want to make sure that before stats leaves, I say this.
Congratulations on the new position.
And for the new position with me,
that's big. Um, seriously.
Alvin Alan's coming soon.
I missed it on the timeline. I'm too busy looking at magic Eden,
floors to be on the timeline.
He watching the node monkey price to pay attention to anything.
That's, that's, that's, that's not, that's not far off,
No, no monkeys are all right, but uh the poppies even big one punks are pumping
Yeah, I think everything's right now is a beta plate to the node monkeys
Just going parabolic and everybody just trying to find what they can afford. That's that's pretty well-known
Yeah, this move was kind of out of nowhere
It's just like I mean that floor was trending from like point two five to point one five and then suddenly it's at point three
Nine, I don't know what happened. It was it was so fast
Like so fast, it's crazy. I and I you know what I think it is. I think it is the
Rapidly increasing use is my honest opinion
I would love to see if there was some stats on this to back it up, but I think it's a
rapid increase in leverage on
BTZ right now is that right? Yeah, I think that's what's starting to happen
Especially as we're having you know with with I don't know if I could say right now
But more entrance into the into the liquidity realm on on BTC like I think that's part of it
Personally, it could be I have this weird like blend addiction right now. I'm like lending so much on blend
It's kind of it's like this
It's the worst addiction possible because you make money so slowly when you land on bland
It's like a day goes by and you make like point zero five either something like that, which is all good and well
But it's not like the dopamine hits were used to but for some reason I'm addicted to it
I gotta I gotta expand my expand my lending horizons here
Well, I hate to be like that one ordinals annoying guy that's gonna there
But have you tried liquidity because I just feel like it's less saturated
I mean it is more than it was like a month ago
But if if you're looking for competition and points and stuff like that, I think you'll do better on liquidium
Yeah, I gotta check it out. People are tweeting at me about it and I don't I just like having Doug
I'm 42, you know your dad or whatever. It's it's hard for old people to change their habits
Stats my friend. I'm 42 years old. I was born in 1981 as well my friend
You can do liquidity I'm in your 42 I got no excuse there you go
Aging individuals today. I'm 34 at each. Oh, I don't buy this old people can't change their habits
Thank you, Scotty. Like I just started meth two years ago and I was a coke man. Oh
If you switch to a Bitcoin puppet, then yo, yo good you go over to ketamine
So, um, there's a lot of uh, you know things to explore in this world my friend
Well, um and I you know, sure
For sure, Scotty. Um, I hope that's treating you. Well, you should consult your local physician. So Jacob's there weren't for BitBoy
We'll get to that Jonah we'll get to that and I'll text you really in a sec Jacob
I want to last proof. I don't take ketamine joke seriously anymore. Oh my god
Jacob we're talking about liquidity. What you got for me, man. Welcome to the stage
What's going on everybody? Good to be with you all
Sub sub so I I I'm inviting you on stage day
because we are like I wanted to talk at least a little bit about sharky because I because you guys this is like for
me an example at least like one of the more one of the more interesting examples of
What I would consider to be like probably a premier level a premier level
Lending platform on Solana that's quickly expanding and in the process doing a token launch and it's like for me
this is kind of what I'd want to see out of like
most we'll call them crypto native businesses where you build out something that people actually use and is actually a massive benefit to the
Ecosystem at for a while by the way
Like I've always said for a long time that some of the best stuff happens on Solana before it happens anywhere else
Right, and you guys were premier lending platform for the past. I want to say like two years
roughly give or take on soul and
I'm like, I respect that a lot and now again full disclosure
I am in the I am in I'm angel investing in the toe. Oh my god English
I just wanted to talk to you guys for a little bit. Just see what's going on
Yeah, it's great to on great to be with you guys. I think an interesting point. There is what takes place on Solana first
I think there's actually a
Disconnecting that if you look at a theorem a theorem had fantastic lending protocols
Many of which the teams I'm friends with right?
So I think I think that a lot of the time we get siloed into different chains or an ecosystem
We kind of miss the the forest from the trees
I mean if you even if you look at
Like avalanche for example
There's there's tons of vital games that were done there and then also now done on Solana and people think it's like the first sign
There but I would certainly say we've been fortunate enough to to do it arguably the best
Yeah, it's definitely been a fantastic training. I think something else you need to Solana is the ability to
To ship at a low cost and the users to be able to break something at a high speed
We're on at also at a low cost
Whereas on chains like it's just it's slower. It's more expensive to get through those different iterations
So, I don't know how much like I don't know how much you could talk about a forward-looking stuff in terms of some of the stuff
That you're launching, you know going forward. Can you or not? Because if so, I would love to ask you about some of it
From what I can ascertain and you could tell me if you can confirm this or not
You guys are gonna be looking to expand to other chains other than the Solana. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Okay one of which
You could you could assume that I
Mean I'm personally like if I were to say I'm a maximalist or anything it is Bitcoin
but she's not like the irrational way of not using other tech, but I
Mean if I mean, I love that you guys were just talking about ordinals a moment ago
I actually met like the team from tiny Vikings on really smart guys there. They've yet to launch not a plug
I'm not gonna buy it, but it's just really fascinating like the conversations right now around ordinals
Cuz I don't know. I mean with your guys experience probably far more than mine right now
be curious about this thought is
It's more contracting continue to develop and more uses is to actually put into the chain
What's the point of etherring?
Might be a hot take that is actually really bold take especially that's not a hot running
That's not a hot take on the ordinals community at all. Oh, shut up
You know English texted me today English was like do people buy anything that isn't an ordinal anymore. I was like, dude
NFTs on eat. Yeah on the yes, not yeah on the testnet Wow
My sappy seals would beg to differ. What are you doing? Like a ring speed drop? What are you talking about?
No, he's calling Eve the testnet
No Jonah he's calling he's
Was like reading that there are several L twos are just like on technically eat, but they're for ordinals
So they're basically just aetherium and FT's in many ways
Well, I actually don't know how that'll work to be honest
I I don't know how L2 like BTC L2 that are EVM compatible
It doesn't at the moment. So like that's kind of the whole idea of of
You know taproot Wizards in terms of like what they want to do
So like those there's certain opcode that doesn't have to be op cat that will enable more. Yeah, Evie and kind of stuff
But those most people don't even build like products or anything on those because what's the point of it?
Like why are you gonna develop all this stuff?
When you can't make money off of it, right you spend like a night, you know
You would go on testnet you can kind of play around with it
and then so the argument to not push those is like the people that are kind of in charge of like getting these these soft
Forks past or like, you know doing this kind of consensus type thing then they're like, well, there's no products, you know
So why why are we even gonna even consider this?
And so I think part of it is just kind of the cultural, you know shift towards
These certain opcodes on whether it's op cat CVT CTV
and those will allow for for just certain kind of
Programming languages that will enable like L2s to like really I guess
You know take take place and and other stuff, too
So we'll see we'll see how it works out
So so I guess my question the right is in the context and by the ways
I mean just so you know, we don't do hands here so you can just like hop in whenever but just Jacob on
On the point of let's say cross chain liquidity and as a as a because I actually first off
What do you do with sharky? Like let me just frame the question first. What do you do with them?
Yeah, I'm the CEO of shark by lead partnerships
So in the in that context right like in the in the context of an NFT phy protocol looking to bring
Lending to multiple chains that isn't just Solana or whatever like how
How do you look at things? What is what is your guys's read of the ecosystem?
What do you guys expect, you know going forward especially as we get into
quickly a much more integrated a
much more integrated cross chain world with the war with the likes of wormhole and the likes of layer zero we have
We have Frank trying to to shill layered shill wormhole into finishing up their end of the protocol
Which is really funny, but also I mean a good move in my opinion
And then you also have layers zero getting ready to launch in full force very soon. And it's like we're looking at a cross chain world
Everything is starting to actually blend together in a way that people have been basically
Prophesizing for years and it's it's starting to be a little bit more real and tangible as far as I can tell
So with all that going on, what is the lending protocol like yourself?
And I say yourself as if you are the company, but effectively
What do you guys look at? Like, what do you guys think? What's on your mind?
Gee, I've had this conversation James Altucher a few years ago. I think first off huge fan of layers here
Never really get to the same position that we are today with the internet instead of thinking about HTTPS and like siloed
Versions of the internet we have the world wide web and people just make tick-tock videos, right?
I think that eventually you'll abstract away the blockchain component of
Web 3 and you'll just have users connecting to platforms. And so when you have users in
Operating in that sense the back end. I think you I know it has to already be that cross-chain world
When we're evaluating ecosystems, it's really about what are people using where they using it?
And how do they want to use these things in the future, right? So I wouldn't go to
A chain I wouldn't bring charge to a chain that has no NFT volume wouldn't make any sense
And it's not just NFTs in the ways that we're thinking about them today. I think I
Mean in my 11 years in this space. I've seen it mature from
Bitcoin to crypto to smart contracts would literally just be legal and it's just encoded to now
Very convoluted space and with that maturity has come to the space as well
I think the same thing will come to NFTs where I'll get back
It'll it'll really come back to the principles of tokenization and not so much about pictures of monkeys
and I think that that's where it gets
Really interesting when you think about our WAs when you think about debt markets. I mean look at parcel on
On Solana right now doing fantastic
They essentially give you access to essentially
propped rate our our EITs on
And so yeah, again, I think I think when we're evaluating how exactly we want to develop the Sharkey ecosystem
We we really want to evaluate each chain for like what some of their main focuses are right
I think again towards ordinals or towards Bitcoin. I
Don't see much of a use for ETH if Bitcoin can get smart contracts down
Oh, no, I was gonna just piggyback off that like it when you look at product market fit
It does seem to be in a really weird spot
Like if Bitcoin can start doing like everything ETH can do but with more muscle or even at least some things
Like I just started getting into
Ordinals, thank you Lord Arff
And it's just like all the positives
About aetherium for NFTs Bitcoin has with literally just more behind it
Like it's a beautiful thing and then you have Solana on the other end that like feeds a different
Use case within the ecosystem. So I truly believe like ETH really is in a weird spot. It's kind of like a
It's truly like I'm a middle child syndrome type of shit
Yeah, I can see that. I think I think that's really great metaphor for it on because I don't think that it is pointless
I'm in no time myself. I don't think I'm pointless
I am ETH. I think you just have to find your position, right? And I think it will it'll figure itself out
sharding sounds like it's not gonna work but that aside on I think if you again if you abstract away like
don't think about connecting a wallet don't think about is like checking etherscan or
Or sending token just think about like what the purpose of these chains could be BTC
I think like that muscle you described the depth of liquidity and and
Ethereum equally has that but again, it's just a
Bitcoin's slower more expensive ETH's a little bit better
I mean avalanche is a little bit better than that ETH and then Solana is better than the rest of them at that
But then if you value security
So, yeah, I think when you're able to abstract away the crypto part of this space a
Across chain future just makes a lot of sense. And so again, we're positioning Sharkey to be a liquidity layer across
For a variety of uses I think with with what we've done so far. It's it's an excellent proof of concept, right? If I
Were to tell you that there's a Friday tester Rosa like a $250,000 car tokenized vault. That's it
I think it's a lot more than that
Alright five hundred thousand our part tokenized vaulted
You have the NFT. I would be willing to wager that lenders are willing to lend to that
More easily than they are to pictures of monkeys
And so if I were to speak to non encryption people and tell them the the thought about lending to RWAs anyone thinks
I don't know. Would anyone really do that? Well
I'm a pretty good proof of concept with with what we've done so far
I'd say that's fair. It's it's it's interesting because it's like you have you have a lot of these protocols taking vastly different
vastly different approaches to
How to do lending generally, right?
Like you have the ones like liquidity and where it's more peer-to-peer very specific, right?
like I'll lend on one NFT very specifically or once he's me ordinal and
Those terms are actually set by the protocol itself. It's like a fascinating situation there
Whereas on on other places like Medic Street or arcade you have other
We'll call them like very a lot more in-depth mechanisms that are also
funny enough also way less profitable right now, but it's just like
There's there's so many ways to skin this cat proverbially
What I am interested in though, right is things like for example
with like one of the issues that I've noticed is
specifically with ordinals
There's a massive issue where like if you want to lend on an ordinal you can only do it in
Bitcoin it's the only way you can do it. You can't lend more specifically
USDC which is fascinating right like that that is that to me. I don't know
I don't know if you have any thoughts on that, but that was just like we're solving it say that
All right, that's pretty sick
That is actually pretty sick I
Have I guess there's like not much else you can add on that, but that's like a serious problem
I mean I I didn't address one of the problems ordinals has right now on custody solutions or
I don't really prom. They're just interesting. I guess I could say
But you don't really need to have you don't need to deal with a lot of the issues individual chains present if you create a
Form of cross chain compatibility on your individual platform
So if you had a board and you wanted to lend someone
USDC is it cheaper and faster to do it on ether soul the answer soul so
As a borrower where would you rather receive a liquidity from and as a lender where you rather interact and send it from?
Right, but can't bridge to board eight. So what do you do?
I'll kind of leave it at that
I'll let that I'll let that simmer
In the meantime, I will say there's a couple of things
I want to mention and bring up and I also just to be clear like I I do want this to just be a
Generalist conversation. I want anyone to feel comfortable hopping in so so Jacob
please stick around because I want I want your opinions on things and
Generally if Sharkey relates we'll dive in and also just for context for anyone else in the space because I just like disclosing these
Things I am an investor in the Sharkey TG which is upcoming. And by the way, are you able to give any details on that?
Just for anyone that's curious
Yeah, yeah, we're finalizing what's about us. You've seen a lot of the discussion around doing it on LFG from juke
Can share it's it's weeks. Oh
Yes, it's gonna be really exciting
Hi, and it's by the way, it's a ticker shark now, right? Yeah
We were a little too clever for for this market
I guess but it used to be a ticker hark. So it's like the s s with a dollar sign hark
See that's the fucking I thought I mean for real whenever when we were looking at her like oh
This is gonna make sense to people right away
But uh, now we hit the drawing board on that change it very quickly
Well, I'm excited for it for obvious reasons, but outside of that man
Good luck with that. That's just my personal thing. Good luck and
Thank you for for what you're doing and I actually I want to see like I like seeing
Excellent competition in the in the lending space. It's just my thing
Like I've been called NFT. Fyattie. I really think it's I really like I really think it's one of the most important thing
Among other yeah, I was a denier initially like I thought that was bullshit
But the deep you go it actually makes a ton of sense and telling you man
I like Gabe and I agree and a lot of things I think NFT five's not one of them
I think I think the problem is
It really is the everything token
Cuz you get the best of both worlds you get the best if you do the 404 you do another sort of ERC method or
SPL method you get the best of
But they are also backed by an IP and they also can be used in games and they also can be tied to RWA's
It's like I don't even it's it is really different. It's a very different asset than we've ever had and I think
From like just looking at it. You look at a picture of a board if you're like, why the fuck would this be something worth?
Lending, but then you realize that it's not the picture
It's the the token and that token get access to drops it can get access to
Games it can get access to you know events at Rolex
It's you basically providing this lending system on top of it's like if it's like if you could put
On a Costco card. It's like if there were a finite amount of Costco cards in the world
You know when people loan out that Costco card, which they do by the way as I'm I'm a part of a Jewish family
We loan out our Costco cards to other Jewish family members all the time where we used to do you charge them interest?
Well, you know depends on the family member. I was gonna say that sounds about right
you know, sometimes my uncle has to pay a premium but uh
Yeah, it makes sense because it's because the forward-looking value is not necessarily what's really fun
It's almost like a forward-looking value loop box
Like when you look at a share of a company you look at Nvidia you go. Alright, what's the forward-looking value of an Nvidia share?
Well, you can you know, you can really look at
You know a document and get an idea of what the share value could be based on, you know
There are performance in that quarter
but if you look at an NFT
It's very hard to tell what that future performance is gonna be in your you're kind of basing it on its past value or it's like
Sentimental value. It's really weird
I do think it's interesting and I have come around to it as someone who does do like the whole NFT thing and I will say like
The read and Jake will tell you a sec. The one of the reasons why I'm so excited about a lot of this stuff
Especially with the 404s which we're gonna be I can promise you over the course like the next year or so
I'm gonna be talking about four fours a lot the the thing that excites me specifically about four fours is how native they are
So we'll call it NFT phi because it's just defy right like they are they're just native to defy
How many how many meme coins do you see launch a year that go to a billion dollar market cap?
Like it's actually a substantial number. It's probably like three or four every year
Get to around a billion dollar market cap or at least in the hundreds of hundreds of millions of dollars high hundreds, right?
Maybe that like that might be you know a little bit of a high number saying three or four but a good number of them
How many times do you see an NFT collection get to a billion dollar market cap?
It's like what once maybe twice I think with meme land and one of whatever and maybe a zooky like it's very rare
It's very rare that you see an NFT get to that size and part of the reason is it's just not an efficient
Mechanism to deploy capital into like people who want to spend a lot of money on NFTs
Just can't because they'll destroy themselves. So they don't do it because they're like I have
50 million dollars and I want to put into something
Why why am I gonna put it into NFTs when I could just put it into vastly better mechanisms for my capital, but
With with like a lot of these protocols expanding
With the tokens themselves becoming more fungible in a sense
It's it's it's unlocking serious capital like serious serious capital
so that just means I mean that what that means for you and for a lot of these companies at least in my opinion, right is
the higher the number goes the higher the sentiment and the more things that that company can do to make the
to make the whole experience a lot more fun and exciting like
Are able to do a couple more things than pudgies at 3th. We're able to do
It's just like how it works. So
Something that excites me Jacob. I didn't mean to cut you
I was just gonna add to actually spoke both of your points. I think
The reason one important reason you don't see NFTs reach there's there's highs is the supply issue, right?
I mean you have billions of a token it can be worth micro sense and reach a billion dollar
Market cap Amy if you have a 10,000 collection, it's gonna take a little bit more juice per NFT
But the the reason I was gonna loop this back actually to Sharkey was what you were saying a moment ago about Jonah about
Liquidity within these assets and and what what people actually use different platforms to do
So what I've seen and it's an assumption. So it's not a hundred percent accurate
Obviously, but when I see lenders lending to a specific collection at a very tight LTV
So it's worth ten. They're lending nine and ninety percent LTV
When I see that I take that as a signal to the market that
Lenders power users people with liquidity that are willing to juice certain things are bullish on a collection if I see a low
Nor if I see like a very widespread
I don't want to say it's a signal of bearishness I want people to use shark is like a signal for the market
But I don't know it's certainly not as bullish as the as the other
Liquidity within these assets and how you can actually tap it. So if
If you have a hundred thousand dollar NFT and you guys need quick liquidity here, you simply want to exit
What do you do you list it to sell it? Right be like
Ten of us living in a neighborhood with ten homes and they're all million dollars each and one of the neighbors wants to leave
So what do they do? They listed for 900 grand. We're all pissed off with that neighbor
It's the same concept within a tease when you're going lower than the floor
And then maybe Becky down the road wants to get out just as just as bad. So she goes to eight, right?
And that's the percept perpetual downside you see with a lot of those kinds of actions say with lending protocols
It at least captures some of that away from the floor
And again, I mean if people want out they're gonna get out one way or another but some people just need liquidity for trading for
Farming something for for whatever maybe they want to arbitrage the dollar value of whatever pairing the chain they're on
but I think it's it's a net positive for the space and I think as we expand into other chains in in a variety of different
Assets both that can be lent and borrowed against
It's gonna be pretty exciting. I have a question because again, I'm new to this NFT five stuff
How different is this from just a margin loan?
Like if you know, like with your with an equity portfolio you can you can borrow against the value of that portfolio
How is that different or is it different at all from from borrowing against the potential value of an NFT or even like a basket?
I'd say it's only that you can't be margin called you you default
Right. I mean, I've previously built models with liquidation thresholds
So in that case, it wouldn't be very different. Um in like the Sharkey that you guys use today
it is just like time based default instead of like a
Flush wage fluctuating liquidation point
But so do you let any so can any NFT in a peer-to-peer become a
Loan much like a margin loan or you only allow loans on what you consider more premium assets like a crypto punk
Where where the price is not as variable because like that that's my thing because I know that margin is for new people is
Pretty risky. So like how do you do you select are you just very like open market?
It's like a double I mean, it's not like a double-edged sword
It is it is a double-edged sword where on one hand you want to live up to the aspirations of decentralization
It's like a full peer-to-peer economy on the other you need to protect users, right?
You need to protect borrowers. You need to protect lenders equally. And so if
Bar against any NFT it would just be wild
And so we do decide but we try to keep it as open as fairs as humanly possible. We have conversations with
Pretty much all of the teams that have been listed
Um, I mean if there's some that we just aren't but they're obvious W's like we'll throw them on
But if you're looking at the best way to do it, by the way, yeah
And if you're looking at Sharky in with unless you guys like some fun different tooling, there's there's really three principles of a loan
There's the LTV the amount being lent right? There's the duration the interest then that's charged
And we control two of those three factors
Really trying to allow the lender to control the riskiest of it, which is the amount being lent
So we control the duration the interest charge. So if you go to shark you'll see
several different durations several different interests if if it was just was free up here to pillar and even if we only allowed
Even if we created the allow list, I think you'd have a worse user experience where you'd see
Half a day variations across all of them with like 10% differences on the APY being charged and then it's just not as useful as
Is I think how clean our product is and I think the market really?
signals that back to us with the
The the times that we've seen like the UI UX replicated on various platforms
You know, it's something good to see I mean if I can ask you like two more quick questions that is that good
Only because we're gonna move to I want to talk about magic in a second
But and only also because like I will say as much as I love NFT phi
I will recognize that um, we sound like a bunch of like Wall Street nerds and not even like the cool ones
It's like the really was about making money. So if you're not talking about loans, you're I agree. You're not gonna make money
That's how you get more cap anyway depends on the loan, right?
That's why I'm asking if it's like margin because for people that can be very risky
All right. So my two questions
Which should be easy to answer are what do you qualify as an accepted project to loan on?
Like what are the thresholds of what constitutes a project that is dependable enough, right?
Like, you know, what what do you look at? And then second if people get sharky phi token
What is the point of having that token? Is it like a discount on interest?
Like I have no idea what you would get for rewards token on a on a lending platform. I have no idea
So to alter the second first to like the whole token on a shrine utility will be releasing that shortly
so I don't want to get ahead of that to the
Qualifications for a collection to be listed. I
Don't want to say like the bar is not high, but we don't want to create a bar
That's now an effort for teens to try to get over when this is something that could help float the floor
really what I'm getting at here is you don't need to be a mad lad and
We try to vet you to make sure you're not a teddies if that makes sense. Um
Like crime to look crime in a rug
Yeah, what I was gonna ask there was like so I haven't deal with magic even which is a probably good segue
They made me do the full KYC and all that stuff, right? Do you do that or you don't you guys don't do that?
Yeah, no, we don't do that
Interesting. Okay. All right. My questions have been answered. I will wait for your token. Thanks
Bless with that. Actually, I do want to mention this magic Eden thing, right? So for anyone that's been living under a rock
Magic Eden eath marketplace comes out and there's a counter one day 15 hours 41 minutes and 27 26 seconds
I'll be honest with you. I am super wait and see on this
Everyone is losing their minds. They're like magic Eden's gonna kill open sea which okay, let's just be clear about something
That's the easiest job in the world at this point
I think it's I think they're gonna like kill open sea no-brainer at this point
But I don't know if I don't know if it's gonna be like the most accepted of marketplaces at so, okay
Context right one of the biggest reasons that they're that they're
Pushing this and one of the biggest reasons why you're seeing a lot of people partnering with them is the concept of protective royalties
You mentioned Gabe Jonah. They're using they're using so for anyone that also doesn't know this
Gabe Leiden aka the guy that put on the seven million dollar Super Bowl ad for digi daikaku that everyone makes fun of is the guy
That's made basically all the infrastructure or at least a significant part of the infrastructure
For this upcoming magic Eden marketplace
So when you fud Gabe and make make fun of the Super Bowl commercial just know like this is also what's going on in the back
And he's low-key and in a very real sense taking a pretty significant amount of market and putting it through his protocols
my concern or one of the things that that's pushing this is the idea of protected royalties and
man, everyone and everyone and their mother is like
I love royalties because that way creators can make more money and that's what we're here for
That's what we were here to support. I promise you no one actually believes that
Like no one who's trading actually actually believes that if you're gonna tell them. Oh, by the way
You're now going to lose an extra 5% on every sale that you do. No one's gonna be like, wait a minute
Let's go. What if it was 1% or whatever was point? So so so that that is
That comes down to are the people who are setting these
Smart like do they understand what they're doing? And are they are they setting it at a level?
That's I mean the word sustainable is generally a joke, but are they setting it at a sustainable level? I
think that's the key that they're gonna have to figure out is like what is the
What is the percentage that we could put it at that yields like the highest attachment rate of us getting?
That royalty. It's probably my beans. I fucking took that shit away
Yeah, I mean I I said ever I I said every royalty that I can to the lowest possible royalty
I would expect that if you had to give me a note if you had to tell me like pick a number
It's probably somewhere between 1 and 3%
But I'm not gonna be surprised to see any UGA assets that have that uh, have that protected be sent straight to 5 to 10
Somewhere in the range and it's tough cuz you know the market place is getting it too. So they're you know, you're paying two
separate two separate fees there as well
I've done a lot of research on this like a year and a half ago when the environment was totally different and I
Think there are two truths here. The first is that no one ever pays optional royalties
Like the date is clear about that
Like given the choice to not pay royalties people are not gonna pay royalties and by no one
I mean like 80 to 85 percent people the
Second truth though, and this is the surprising truth is that before royalties were optional buyers didn't give a shit and
I thought when I joined NFTs my first NFTs were like me bits and crypto punks, which were zero royalty
The economics would lead to people lowering royalties because that would mean there are more buyers and the opposite happened the economics led to
Yuga going from 2.5% for port a pia club to 5% for other deed
Why cuz doodles Azuki moomba's everyone's 5% and no one gave a shit and I think like, you know
Goblins were 7% V friends were 9 or 10 percent and if the world's were 10% no one gave a shit
Like it's kind of interesting that back when they weren't optional like FOMO drove buying decisions
And you just did not have this phenomenon that we all expected of people saying hmm
I'm gonna ignore my FOMO right now because royalties are 6% now
I only like under 4% and I'm not gonna buy that just never happened
Like the data was like exceptionally clear that buyers actually didn't give a shit on the way in
So I don't know those are two kind of somewhat contradictory points one that people always pick zero and two that actually
Given the option back when it like was just part of the buy people ignored them entirely and royalties trended higher
Not lower over time like those are that that was just the way the market actually responded
So I'm gonna toss to Naveen in a second, but what's your initial expectations?
I mean, it's just such a I don't know exactly I
think like if they are doing a thing where you have to burn your board ape to get or wrap your board ape or
Do something like that. I think like for a project like board ape yacht club
I think the holders are like they're excited that they own the NFT that was minted in
And I think if you kind of burn those and gave them something new that suddenly was royalty enforced or something like that
I don't think that would do well
I don't think that would go across well for that project and I think there are handful of projects in that boat
So I don't know what magic Eden's doing
But like if what they are doing is forcing people to burn these older versions
Like I just think that's gonna be a big struggle for most NFTs if what they're doing is saying hey
We're launching new stuff and that new stuff is gonna block a lot of marketplaces
But it's gonna be royalty enforced then I think it's just gonna come down to can these brands get there
I'm gonna get themselves to a place where people are making the bet that it's new stuff
I don't think any of these brands are gonna risk. They're like most valuable assets
Yeah, and if it's that like then it's just about FOMO
It's like at the end of the day everyone is foaming the shit out of node monkeys even though they're paying
2.5% to magic Eden even though they're paying 2.5% for Bitcoin profits
The fact is people in the space don't care when they're buying all they care about is FOMO and the question that is like
Can some of these brands that I think are pretty tarnished get their get their reputation back together
But there are a handful of brands that like have charged royalty have figured out a way to enforce and have been top volume
I think this I think there's this kind of like hyper capitalist view that like
Hyper decentralized view whatever that buyers are all like it's just not gonna work and like the data shows that
Royalty enforcing projects have actually done fine if they can generate the FOMO
I think the bigger issue is that you go labs
You know, I saw it approve a bunch of like aren't very FOMO inducing right now
And that's the bigger issue than whether or not they're charging one one thing
I was gonna add was like thinking about the product ecosystem that magic Eden is creating with their
You don't need to raise your hand. I wonder if you go. Yeah, no, you get the end of you need
Oh, I'm sorry to step in there
Those are rules here though
But like they're their wallet that they're creating
So, I mean there's so many scenarios like if like what you mentioned about in like the enforceable contract over to magic Eden
Is the thing and like people are happy holders
Is there some sort of incentive within like the magic Eden?
Marketplace and their wallet and like a token or some sort of reward mechanism
For people to do that and can that create some sort of adoption because they're kind of like trading
Paying for the fee to collecting some sort of reward. I just want to throw that in there
So when I talked to Gabe about his whole
Like if my memory serves me correctly and maybe things have changed
I know it's been a long time since I've looked at it
But the basic way that it works like the way this like royalty enforcement thing works is
You effectively have to like escrow the NFTs in the contract. Otherwise, it doesn't really work
Because you know people can always like wrap NFTs and do other things to escape, you know
What what everyone else tries to do in terms of like quote-unquote royalty enforcement?
so the feedback that I get to gave was like look it's a really interesting idea, but it changes the nature of
You know you move from a world where if that's still true
Which I'm pretty sure it is because I don't really think there's another way to really do what they're planning on doing and that
You know now you're gonna have this world where you don't actually own it like it's owned by this contract
You know and I don't know if you because if you can withdraw it then there's no
Royalty enforcement right like you can't you can't allow a withdrawal of the NFT from the contract
So that that's gonna be a very interesting thing like this whole idea of like moving to a world where these NFTs are effectively
Just like escrowed in a contract
And that's how they're doing the royalty enforcement stuff
You know whether that you know makes an impact in the market like obviously like I fully support creators
And I think royalties are an important you know revenue stream for creators, so like that's fine. That's my personal opinion
One of the reasons why this our whole industry exists is you know the whole concept of self sovereignty and you know
You know not your keys not your crypto
You know kind of that entire mental model
And we seem to be moving like ever further away from that in the aetherium ecosystem in a bunch of different ways
You know you have these L2s that are all single sequencer. You know you know arbitrum is a closed source protocol
It's it's really kind of now
There's like this whole thing with like okay now
I'm gonna go trade NFTs on magic Eden, and I don't yeah
I'm gonna I'm gonna like connect my wallet, and I'm gonna see them appear in the gooey
But I don't actually fucking own them you say
Gooey man graphical user interface you say gooey gooey
Do you know what do you know what a gooey is that's great? No? I know what a gooey is I call it a gooey
I it's gooey. It's good. I've always called a gooey is it actually a gooey. Yeah, it's gooey
Wow yeah, all right more. You know okay there. You go. I mean I'm also like a thousand years old
In age not in intelligence, but Yoda in age, but anyway
That's my and I gave him this feedback like there was a Twitter space where he I think was like a leap space or something
Where he was up there, and we were talking about it
You know I was just you know having an honest conversation with him, and I was like look
You know it's like a really interesting idea, but man
You know that's like a pretty major social contract change to go from a world of like oh
I own my shit to a world where the contract owns the shit
You know I don't know that's like you know leaves a lot to be desired on many dimensions
So I just think you know look I think the experimentation is great. I'm all for experimentation
I'm not here to fight in any way
I'm just like sharing a perspective and that's assuming the implementation is still what it was back then for all we know it's changed
I don't I'm not paying like that close attention to it
But that's something that I think you know we should like look at is like okay
Well, how is the royalty enforcement actually happening because we all know that like these things can be wrapped
You know like so anyone who tries to do like oh enforced royalties people just wrap it and and now you're escaping the royalties
Like it's it's kind of bullshit in that way
So how is like true enforcement happening?
And that's that was you know the original Gabe implementation was like oh well the contracts gonna own it and now
Yeah, the royalties are absolutely enforced because you don't actually own the asset I
Think you're gonna see a little bit of a
Bifurcation of sorts like one example that I think of is quirky's and you guys might not know quirky's it's a
5000 set collection that had a baby collection too and
It's kind of run by an Australian team and got really hot for a while last year
It's it's still like an eighth and a half right now, isn't it?
So what happened was they kind of the the project just went like straight
They like it went up and it went and then it went down and what they did was they bricked the NFT
like turn the NFT into like
Into into a white image and they said if you have this you have to own this new one
And they gave you a new one and that one had seven four point five percent royalties
They blocked blur blur got around it
But like it was pretty much largely traded on open sea seven point five percent royalty paid on every trade their ways
And the NFT went from point seven to two each
Like suddenly the like the team got excited the community got excited and the thing rallied cuz like every like they kind of had this
Like more cohesive thing going on other tons of people that would never buy that because they'd say not my keys
Not my crypto like this isn't like what I want to own and those people I think are not gonna buy this type of stuff and they're
Gonna stick to things like crypto punks and they're gonna buy note like they're there is stuff for them
But I think like you have people in this space for different reasons and you're gonna have different like different communities
Like, you know one other thing is true is like aside from pudgy penguins and a couple projects like since royalties have gone to zero
Like most projects have done really really poorly like it has not been this boon for this ecosystem where holders are making money
It is that like where communities are in the best vibes ever like and there are a lot of different things that have gone with that
But like the decline of royalties has not been met with like the rocketing of prices the opposite is act like the charts are pretty wild
so I think like you are gonna see some communities are like, yeah, like let's try something different and
Let's be okay with a little bit less liquidity with fewer traders and there will be people
I think who will embrace that and then there will be people who are in crypto for a
Totally different reason and we'll say this isn't for me and I'm only gonna invest in NFPs that like I feel full ownership
Over and like total immutability and I just think you're gonna start to see like people make choices based on their personal preferences and the reasons
Yeah, if I could throw something quickly there, I wonder if it's causation or correlation like I would I mean I said that I said
There's a whole lot going on at play. But like they like, you know, like clearly there's a lot going on at play
But it's been a it's been a crypto bull market S&P 500 isn't all-time high
like it's been a pretty good environment for risk assets and like most projects have like gone down and I don't think it's just cuz
Like I but I think like I don't think it's just like hey, this is cuz royalties
I think there's a whole lot going on in the ecosystem
I'm just saying like this idea that low royalties like are good for the ecosystem and are really good for holders
Like just the data certainly doesn't yeah
Yeah, it may be indifferent towards it, but there's very pretty much no evidence that that's actually like something that's play. Yeah
Yeah, so again, the the point I'm making here is
at the end of the day in our industry
There there are different
Risk as it is as it relates to
The quote-unquote ownership of assets, right?
So you can quote-unquote have full like, you know
Self-custody ownership of an NFT where like the metadata like the link to the image is like some
Instance and if some asshole doesn't pay the bill then like, you know have a blank token
I like and that's that's like most NFTs like a lot of people don't know this
But OpenSea is like the cache of last resort for it's some crazy number
It's like 20 or 30 or some like large double-digit percentage of like all NFTs. It's like ridiculous. Okay, that's that's like one
What do you mean by cache of last resort? Yeah. So what that means is OpenSea essentially maintains a
Database, you know like file storage of a cache if you will of all of the associated media
NFTs and what ends up happening is if you go on OpenSea and you try to access you try to like look at an NFT
Where you know the original like?
Issuer of the NFT is stopped paying the server bill or whatever
OpenSea may still render it because they still have it cached. So they're like essentially the cache of last resort for
For like, you know, frankly like a lot of NFTs
That were hosted on like centralized instances whether it's like an AWS instance or something else
So so that that's like one layer that like a lot of people don't really think about when they think about, you know
Trading JPEGs. There's a second layer, which is this idea of now like the contract owning the asset
And that's especially an issue if the contract is upgradable
because you know now like
Basically, whoever controls that contract can essentially do whatever they want
Effectively with the assets that are stored in the contract
So that that's that's like a risk that people kind of just need to think about and then the other problem with contracts
Especially like written in Solidity is just the exploit risk. I mean every single fucking day
There's like a Solidity exploit, you know
Like a contract that's get exploited and it doesn't matter in many cases like how many audits you've paid for it's just like like software
Bugs happen, you know, and and that's like a nature of our industry, you know, like this is all, you know, basically
You know high security high risk like financial software is basically what it is
And so so that that creates like another dimension and and I think what ends up happening is, you know
I think stats is right, you know that you know, ultimately like people are gonna experiment people will try it
There will definitely be a bifurcation. There'll be people are like, oh, this is really great
but I think what it all comes down to you is
You know the the right blend of really great quality user experience
Support of like true permissionlessness because otherwise what you end up with is like various forms of censorship, right?
Like, you know Eddie I came on your space before I think it was last week or whatever and I was talking about
You know, like I think the ethereum ETFs are
Huge centralization risk for aetherium. Like I think it ultimately will turn aetherium
away from being a permissionless network, right because if coinbase is the like primary custody partner for
Bitcoin ETFs like one can assume that for the same will be true for aetherium ETFs and
Coinbase ends up with like a huge portion of the eat supply, you know, you know
You end up with all these like weird things like, you know
What if there's an outcome where they have so much of the eat supply but some like fucking regulator is like
Oh, no coinbase you have to basically like censor these dApps, you know
Or whatever like that's the kind of shit that can happen when you have like a proof-of-stake system where you know
Enormous amounts of the supply are are held by singular parties and you already have that with aetherium with Lido
It's like Lido plus coinbase plus like I think a few others is like well over 50% of the aetherium supply as it stands already
Today and so so, you know, I think I think like basically there's this whole very interesting
Set of experiments that's being run and then you have now things like eigenlayer where it's like
Oh, we're gonna create a marketplace for like crypto economic security. Yeah, I'll be honest the eigenlayer probably gonna pump like crazy
I actually don't get it. Like I think it's exactly against what we want for ease personally, but maybe that's just me
Well, I just think I just think there's like the potential for there to be a little bit of a
Surprise down the road when you know
Like this whole concept of aetherium crypto economic security is like called into question
You know because I'm actually like very bearish on proof-of-stake systems like broadly speaking
You know, that's like a whole you know another conversation
But yeah, so I think that's basically you're building like layers upon layers upon layers, right?
So you have ETH L1 which is supposed to be essentially the core security model for all the roll-ups that live on top
Right. So all these things are essentially rolling up to rolling down if you will to the L1
But the L the L2s are all single sequencer today, right?
Like all of them and some of them like base
I don't know how the fuck base becomes decentralized like there's no token at least that that's what they've said
Other you know sequencer operators to like live on base. I don't even know how that fucking works
That's like a whole like can of wax
Then you have the closed-source software issue like with the arbitrum
Which is like fucking batshit crazy if you really think about it or sweet is another example of closed-source software at a protocol layer
Layer level that you source I didn't know. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's BSL
So BSL means that it's sorry, it's source available
So you can go like on github and like read the source
But if you want to for like the way our industry has worked historically since basically the beginning of time
Is the software the underlying protocol software was always very?
You know licensed using a very?
You know like free license like the MIT license or a similar license or BSD 3 clause
We're basically like at at worst all you had to do was essentially attribute
You know if you wanted to fork off and and that's actually what original governance was in our industry like right now
People think of governance and they think of fucking dowse
But the original way governance used to work is you would just fork off
So if you disagreed with the developers decision or a core contributors decision for a protocol
You could just literally fork it and make your own thing
So a lot of people don't know this but Monero is actually a fork of another protocol
And and Monero ended up winning the game. Wait, are you serious? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's crazy
Yeah, yeah, so basically what happened is Monero core forked off from I think it was called bit Monero if my memory serves me
Correctly and and so basically the the the guy who started bit Monero
it was named thankful for today that was his neck and
Apparently it was a real like douche and no one agreed with like where he wanted to take the protocol
So basically fluffy pony and a group of other developers got together and forked bit Monero to make Monero
And Monero is like the winner right? No one even talks about the original thing, right? How many times does that happen?
How many times does a vampire? No, but like a vampire attack. That's that blatant end up actually
Actually, you can call it. You can call it a vampire attack. You can also just call it a fork off
It's like look a group of developers disagree with a set of decisions
Look at what happens the same thing happened with aetherium. So aetherium you have eat eat classic
What do you think eat classic is so eat classic is a version of aetherium that essentially operates in a parallel universe?
So aetherium classic is essentially a version of aetherium that operates
Allowing for the Dow hack and allowing for like that whole thing to play out
So it's it's aetherium classic is the one true immutable version of aetherium
Whereas the aetherium that we all use today actually was effectively rolled back
After the Dow hack, right?
So so it's like it's very very interesting when you actually look at the history of our industry and how these things play off
But what we have now is a whole new set of experiments that are being run
Which are like basically experiments in varying degrees of centralization and and reduction and permissionlessness
So I view the Gabe Layden experiment as just another version of those like one of those experiments and personally like I hate it
I fucking hate those things because I'm like that kind of defeats the whole purpose of the space in a lot of ways
And I don't even think it adds very much to like the user experience to be perfectly honest
I think it's just like net bad, but but that's just my opinion
That's just like one fucking dinosaurs opinion on a Twitter space and let's see what the fuck happens
Let's see. Like maybe people prefer that who the fuck knows
If you guys are enjoying the space make sure bottom right, you know the deal purple button likes retweets
They go a long way. So thank you if you do so and if you don't no worries
just a quick update on the back end there is what appears to be an increasing chance that I might that we might have like a
Special guest coming. I'm not gonna like tease it too hard. But if it actually happens, it's gonna be hilarious
Like it will be the funniest thing that has happened today
Lord off I see you laughing. Do you know who it is? Are you just laughing at the potential?
It's funny. He's teasing us bro. I know I never tease but this one's funny
I'm telling you the tennis the tennis video. Tell me I invented the bait. It's such good bait
You see the polygon when we did where it's like if you had one night to spend with me
What would you do and then they explained the ag layer shit? It got like 40,000 views
Yeah, just just for context guys
I made a post this morning and I I my long-form posts always do bad
Like where the where it says this is a long tweet and you have to press the more button
They always do bad. So I just tried something experimental and I was like, what if what if I just put this this video of a very
with large markets and just see what happens and
Wait Wow when you say large markets, is that code for she has a lot of liquidity?
Right. So I just thought that was fascinating
Sorry, I just needed I needed to like
Lighten the air for a moment. But yeah, I will say
as for this as for this whole experience, I
I don't know if what Gabe's working on works great for PFPs
I don't think it does then he works great for I think it works great for for any he admits this by the way
He said this before I think it works great for we'll call it like
gaming ecosystems or otherwise
Intentionally closed off egos. I think it works fantastically for that. No problem
But you know, I don't know how well it's gonna work for board apes
No, you made it just on time, okay cool
Sweet, man. Yeah, I I really want to join man. I love your long-form tweet today. There's just
Something eye-catching about you know, you buying sappy seals at like point four e so I'd love to see it
You know love to see that very informative
Which which by the way, let me just say I there's not much on this but actually well now he said this publicly
I will say also Eddie like you're better than that
Like that was a good tweet and I think you're giving you're giving the fucking the woman's fucking milkers a little too much credit here
Because it was like it was a good tweet. It was like it like in I don't know like
You should have you should have posted both of them and see which one did better, you know
Well, what would do just like a normal random picture on the other one?
Just like bro, you have a fucking like I don't know a graph a fucking card
Like, you know something something that's relevant to the like maybe some fucking sappy
See like bro go into Canva like the amount of time it took you to go find the fucking right
You know the right video of some fucking heavies
Just to go in like post that and screencap and all that like you could have went on Canva
Hosted a fucking image of a fucking sappy seal in which you're referring to through a fucking PNG of a goddamn
chart going up just a number going up some fucking arrows and I think that probably would have done better because you know
For like the normal fucking gooning mail on this fucking platform
They're just gonna hey some of us are edge maxing bro, and they're just gonna fucking be like, oh cool titties
I'm like, oh, it's Eddie and then they just ignore like so you like you're losing the gooners now at this point, bro
The question is like did you really scroll through a ton of heavy content?
In order to find that specific video
The algo showed me it and I was like, oh, you know, it's wild about the algo
Yeah, I'm sitting in French now. It says secular micro cheating on Taylor's feet. What is micro cheating? We explained to you
Eddie I will say I go cheating is just fucking cheating. Yeah now I'm curious now like I'm fascinated
Treating is sucking toes, bro. No, like no like listen, how how we society where it's like
I only sent him one dick pic or some shit, right? It's like no, that's cheating
You did I'm gonna let that ruminate
I'm just gonna let that ruminate for just like a moment here. Wow. That was wild
Well, what happened that is like it's not that you'd like a money up here cuz that was great
But then you added og at the same. I know I know like this actually a combination of both of them
That's what got fucked up. Yeah, I knew that's where I was heading. But that's why I'm also not
Yeah, so I'm quick with the trigger, you know
But either way, I'm actually curious though. It's cuz cuz like genuine genuine question came money. I saw that you um
You had a fun post today, you're like it's I love the meme it's uh, it's born to dilly-dally
Forced to lock in I think it's hilarious
But I it's like I know that you're not yeah, it's not just a name and notice on that wolf
You know, no fucking enhanced and large fucking breasts on that wolf dude, like just just
Yeah, it is like I don't know bro, it's like it's time to lock in now
Like I don't know like everyone's fucking going to like NFC Paris and they're like, you know taking like fucking, you know pictures and like scenic places
It's just the same people. Yeah, and they're like, oh like, you know content. It's content content content content
But guess what for themselves like while you guys have been doing that like fucking all the traders all the fucking edge
Maxers all the people who don't care about like clout and like inflating their, you know, meaningless narcissism
Like they're just in the trenches. They're in telegram. They're in discord. They're in fucking group chats
They're fucking on deck stools on deck screen or they're on fucking bird eye if they're lame
I don't know if they're smart
They're just doing like what they got to be doing because like we're like in a moment
like instead of us just coming up here and sing our GM's every day and like talk about like oh like web 3 is so
beautiful and the opportunities
Just yeah, but like just the constant circle jerk like
Black Rock is already in the institutions are already in their rock is gonna make you eat the bag
And they're literally about to be in aetherium to which has been like our fucking playground for the past few years
So like are you going to like just continue to fucking just jerk yourself off and like, you know
Pat yourself on the back and call yourself a fucking content creator and like, you know a fucking community member
Yeah, or are you gonna take advantage of the fucking once in a lifetime opportunity in front of you, you know
I will say and I mean this with as much respect as I possibly can because there are some people that are actually pretty good at
it and I think some people
Should it can actually go down this route. I think there's one too many fashion influencers in NFC's like just
people that wish that they were fashion influencers or just generally like
Nobody else can claim a fashion. Also, I will say a thread guy in leap have like out traded
90% of people on stage here this the past like six months. So I'm not referring to my boys
Fashion you mean like they just wear essentials hoodies
You know essentials make some great hoodies, okay
Because that's where they get their blanks from but the point is dude, it's fucking like just lock in guys
Like what are we doing here?
Essentials is basically the 2024 version of anti-social social club
Right, it didn't sound like locking in Jenna you got if you don't know that fucking reference you can't buy
And I know the reference I know the reference I
You know and the other side of things is there are actually like there is genuinely an overabundance of opportunities right now
I'm just looking at things and I like I see things and I want to participate
It's just like I don't have enough things. I want to buy I sold that persona and ft at point five you'd nice nice
Congratulations. I'm gonna do you think I'm gonna miss opportunity or was that wait? Okay, Eddie, Eddie
That that's kind of cope in my opinion because like
Hear me out here man my like one of my boys he was sidelined because like so he got liquidated
in like in the during Luna he lost pretty much everything and then he like built everything back up and then
You know for God bless his soul like, you know, he bought Pepe at you know
Two billion market cap after he heard me talking about it for like three weeks straight begging him to buy it
So, you know, and then he he his size wasn't really sized anymore, right?
But instead what he did is like bro
Like dude has like one of the craziest sneaker collections like watch like he just heard selling everything
He got a stack and he fucking threw it into the market and now he's back to like before like where he was like I
Didn't necessarily have like all the liquidity to be playing in like meme coins the way I do
But I also fucking floored every single one of my NFTs outside of my nikah bramilio
My own you Ramilio and one open and a bunch of bats keys
But like that's like I don't know
So it's like I feel like there's just always like I don't know bro, like go fucking go get a job
You know, don't fucking do some uber like I have money question
So I have an opportunity right now do I buy this d-labs private sale
Or do I not it's like a point one mint. It's for this new anime game. It dropped the labs token
You're asking you're asking a room with 270 people
One on any NFT point one. Yeah, so k money immediately left he was
Jonah you know the answer to the question. Do you believe that the founder is a thunder lizard? Yes or no, I
Know the founder is the ex-ceo of Nexon. You're not answering my question
Do you believe that a thunder lizard a thunder lizard is someone who can bend the will of the world in their direction?
That is the most opium name I've ever heard in my entire life
I'm definitely so when you're whenever you're doing venture capital Jonah
And this is I can only speak to my experience
but what I've what I what has made it like wildly successful for me is
when I meet a founder and I can look them in their eyes and I go and I can really kind of
Assess like the fire in the belly. Is this the kind of person that's gonna blow through fucking walls because you know that you know
99% of startup failure is suicide not homicide, you know
Like is this the kind of person that's just gonna like fucking make it work no matter fucking what and are they gonna find a way?
one way or another to bend the will of the world in their direction and if the answer is yes
Then it's likely something worth investing in if you can't come to that conclusion then you should pass I
Will tell you that I'll probably buy it for the fun of it
But also Eddie asking for point first off most of these gaming NFTs. They all end up getting token allocations
That's why I ask that's one too
I'm not much of a gambler, but I've made a lot of money in the last year like on NFTs
I don't people may not know because I don't talk about my trades
But I've probably outperformed most traders and not like the big traders, but like generally I'm making more money
So like Jonah Jonah's currently like the he's currently the guy in the meme where he's just like cheering
He's showering himself with a champ a champagne
It's okay to ask some simple questions, I know I know I'm just I'm just messing with you
Yeah, I mean why not point one. I've heard of the D Labs guys. It's probably at fair value
We're slightly under priced, so
Yeah, why not I think I think it's worth a gap worth. I use the persona money. That was magic money
You know what? I would actually like to mention though something
That's I I do want to like talk for a second on and just like I don't know maybe catch some
catch some feelers of how you guys interpreted it of what I
Posted today because ETH is running right now, and I think it's probably a good time to talk about it
Yeah, that one that post here
you know what I'll post it because it'll probably I'll post open it to the top because it'll probably um people will probably appreciate seeing that at
was talking with one of my friends. I want to say a year and a half two years ago and
He had said this is this was towards the lat like this was towards the beginning of the bear
And he said for the next cycle my goal like he had just finished reading about someone
And he's like I just read I just read about this trader. It's one of the coolest one of the best performing traders that
Has has traded and he had a very like his firm or his fund whatever was had a very specific strategy
for how they wanted to invest and it was fascinating and
Was they would they would place a bunch of bets they put like let's say I don't know
10 bets out there on things that they believed in and then
When the market started performing well
They would they would see that one is starting to outperform like one of one of those bets would start to outperform
Others my underperformers are lagging behind the ones that were lagging behind
He wouldn't give them really a chance to come back. He would just say alright if you are not
Performing with the market you're out sell them take those take whatever money
He had and start rotating it into the bigger ones that are actually winning
so if he bought something at a dollar you buy more of it at a dollar fifty and then buy more of it again at
$2 and just keep going and he would buy from the from his first initial point all the way
To the very top like he would be buying at the top of the asset
He doesn't he didn't care you just keep buying any time that something was outperforming you just keep buying
And he would run it all the way to the top and then as soon as it started to pull back like once it once
It started to pull back in a significant and meaningful way
He might have had some losses on the top for sure like things that he bought near the top
He's losing on because it's it's had a significant pullback and it's definitely starting to show that the job trend is done
But the rest of his buys were in such unbelievable profit
That the strategy was a killer like the strategy made him one of the better successes for his era
I forget who it was at the time and it's the the story was two years ago, so I just don't remember
But it was it was a real study on a real individual
You wait, do you know who was?
So he was saying it was himself
So I think like there there's look there's a million strategies everyone has their own, you know recipe in terms of their strategy
I think ultimately it comes down to
Whether you're more like short-term minded which tends to be folks in our industry
And and understandably why I it's very clear why that is
Or if you're more long-term minded and if you're long-term minded
And you're betting at like, you know, you're angel investing into things like, you know when they're still nascent, you know
They're they're essentially, you know private rounds seed investing whatever
You know what I always think about is I always think about that old adage of
The average time horizon from first check to liquidity event and traditional startups is over nine years
You know, we're almost nine years rather. Sorry, it's almost nine years. It's like eight point six years or something like that
It's like almost nine years. And so I think that in our industry
What ends up happening is, you know, there's all this narrative all this storytelling
Like we all know that there's nothing happening on Celestia. Like we all know that we also know that there's nothing fucking happening on worldcoin
Because the narrative is so powerful in both cases and world coins case. It's the Sam Altman coin, right?
So like it doesn't matter what worldcoin does or doesn't do it's like irrelevant. It's the same Altman coin
It doesn't matter that it's like 1% float, you know
Or like 2% float or whatever and you know
The rest of it's like completely locked and none of that actually matters to people who are buying it because they're buying entirely on the on
The near-term narrative and the same is like pretty much true for Celestia, right?
You know, but but I think what you know will likely happen is over the course of a longer time horizon
You know like things will shake out and things that have combination narrative and also are actually being used in some meaningful and substantial way
You know will likely perform better
But you know look that's it's gonna that's part of the bet of early stage investing like my styles. I don't trade
I'm a terrible trader. I fucking suck at it. I don't invest any of my time into trading. I angel invest
I love betting on people. I love it. I like love meeting other founders
You know how I've spent like a lot of time on the phone with Jonah, for example, I think he's an incredible founder
And you know, like I love that kind of stuff that to me is a lot more fun
It's a lot more interesting and then I get to watch the career arc of a founder as they like figure it out
And you know create value and their universe and that's one style that happens to me my style
That's very different from say Kay money style
Right, which is like a very different style and they're all styles are good like all styles work
Right, like depending on what your preferences are
You may say I'm not a good founder I just I just gambled 0.08 on this thing it'll be fun
I'm enjoying it. I get away through though. I found out that's why I bought it
I get there way through I was also just told that the special guest may be coming in the next few minutes. So
We'll see we'll see we'll see
We'll see and I expect if you guys are here and we're on our best behavior Santa Claus
Santa Claus is coming but I you know and by the way more just so, you know, we don't do hands
But I'll toss you in just a moment. Oh
I'm sorry. Yeah, you're good. Don't apologize
Yeah, no, no go for a morph go for it. Yeah
My recent strategy of saving is eight everything I see on my mind and it's worked out
Well, that's that's also a great idea it works 90% of the time works 100% of the time
No, it's that was not the quote. Anyway
Point being right at least for me and this has just been something I've been seeing and if you look at um
So I posted it to the top. There were a couple comments. There was one from stats who was here earlier
I wish he was still here cuz I would ask him about it and then one from one from Josh Bob Browski Bob Rob
Had an interesting had an interesting opinion by the way, he lost his ass in gaming NFTs. Did he?
Yeah, so I'm friends with him
There's a project. So here's what Naveen's right about the the blazing founder stuff
We were just talking about because here's a here's a company called Homa games. Homa games raised a hundred
Million dollars. All right, like this is a gay blade and level company. They're very well known to web, too
They're like a huge French mobile game company
Bob Browski was so bullish. He bought like I don't know a hundred or two hundred of these things and then three months later
They said we're backing out of web 3
We don't know what we're doing and they rugged the Homa NFTs and they and because they're French
They basically said fuck off and then like smoked a cig
Yeah, that was a good time
There's still a big company by the way, but I they got away with it
They got away with murder because they did they didn't do regular marketing. Oh
Do I do what you set up? No, just keep that keep down the DMS keep down the DMS
You could you could DM him privately
I've already gotten some crazy DMS by the way about Jonah or at least referencing Jonah from other do it is it is
No, no, you don't like Jonah Jonah. You know, no, no Jonah. You saw this one. No, I say I texted you the picture. Oh
Listen, I'm just good with the women
It was a nuts undercover is ologist if you will anyway all this to say right
So like one thing that Josh had said in that post was if you just look at some of the top winners and then compare
Them to the number two. It's unbelievable the difference like uber think has a market cap around like let's say a hundred
160 million is what he had mentioned and I think I think lift comparatively was at like 10 and
And that's that's a remarkable
Remarkable difference from number one to number two, especially like a lot of people use lift
I see people I see lifts around all the time a lot of uber drivers have uber and lift in their phone
Anyway all that to say our special guest has now arrived welcome everybody to Ben Armstrong the fighter extraordinaire
They call me a fighting Ben now fighting Ben
Our son dude, how's it going? It's going it's going it's going pretty well, you know, it's so hard to
Hard to put in words, you know, how amazing this last few days have been so
You know that things are really good. Oh tell me if I'm wrong
But someone like I watch your fight and I just thought that before you went into a fight
You were a little bit cold stuff. Is that true? Oh my god
Fun fact fun fact fun fact, I was at some point during
Yeah, I was offered cocaine and I literally had to disappoint them and explain to them that the entire thing was a meme
And I don't actually do cocaine. Hell. Yeah, brother
Dude, uh, that by the way good to be clean
All right, all right, so like guys just real quick just be like respectful
This guy can literally beat your ass like proven. He can beat your ass. That is true. That is correct
This is correct. People do know this now. So but just top to bottom
What's the experience been like and and congratulations on the big win against more light? That was an extremely entertaining fight
One of the probably the most that I've laughed ever watching any fight ever. It was just remarkable like excellent content. Yeah big-time fight
Yeah, well going into it. I'll be look I'm not
I'm not trying to sound cocky, but I was pretty sure I can talk him out quickly. I like the amount of
Training and the amount of focus that I put into this
Was like nothing I've ever done and I've done a lot of focus
You know in a lot of things I put a lot of energy into but I know I couldn't lose I could not lose
I had everything on the line if I lost I was gonna become a meme and
I was gonna be so disappointed after putting so much effort into it. I couldn't lose
Everybody else there could lose
How much training did you put into it? Was this like six months?
What were you doing like you're running all the time you get into a camp
Well, I was I was doing boxing classes since October. So back in October this idea got first started thrown out to me
Of course, everybody knows about all the stuff my personal my business and stuff. So I've always been you know
I've been pissed and they want to hit somebody so like perfect. Yeah, that sounds good. I want to do it
Who's it gonna be? You know first? They said I was gonna be blockchain boy or whatever. So I started training and
Start taking some some kickboxing. I got a personal traffic kickboxing and
You know, it became very apparent to me around the new year
Around middle of December probably that was not gonna be enough to get it done
So I went out to doghouse boxing and was not Georgia and I decided like I was gonna box
That was gonna be my main focus. I already had some kicks if I had to throw him
Yes, yeah, you know, there's no reason for me to have to really throw kicks
Hey, there's too much risk and and unless you're kicking the ankles in karate combat
Because they can grab your leg if they grab your leg
You get you're on the ground pretty quick and depending on how the ref is with ground and pound, you know
You could be done. So, you know for me. It was just focusing on the boxing as though, you know, five days a week
I was in the boxing gym from beginning of around I guess around Christmas time on and
I was in the boxing gym every day basically for an hour and then kind of my general my general thing was I would
Go so I got a membership in my local Planet Fitness, right? It's funny, right?
I got this guy trained to fight in Planet Fitness. It was hilarious
But I would go that's that is hilarious by the wall. Jim is Planet Fitness
Yeah, it's a bad way to go. I can't wait to go in there tomorrow with my black eye
But anyways, so I would go generally go to the gym for about an hour
Before I'll go boxing training
An hour to an hour and a half and then I'd go back to the gym after boxing training for another hour hour and a half
I would be doing weight training and then you know
weight training abs and jump rope
for one part and then just straight cardio for the other and then doing all the boxing in the middle and then of course I get
home and I'd hit the bag and
Look, I'm not I'm not a perfect fighter my expression imagination
But I and I'm obviously gonna lean more on power than speed. I think it doesn't matter how I'm like
I'm built for explosiveness. I'm not built
for speed I'm built for power close it is I've got real tight hips and
You know swung a baseball bat growing up the whole thing
So I think that ultimately all the training I put in was good. And then last week
I got some extra wrestling and MMA training
from some local guys there it's a
MMA gyms in Mexico City and that really tied all my training together
It's a lot of footwork, you know, the mindset training is so much like I just spent so much time
Focusing on my breathing which is really helping which by the way
Let me just let me just say the most impressive part of the fight and just like talking on the mechanics of the fight
The altitude is underplayed. No one understands how crazy that is
And I will say like there were there were people it was, you know, fairly funny at the end watching you get interviewed
You were clearly a guy understandably. Yeah, but dude you lasted what fight was that was that three three long rounds?
Swinging like absolute haymakers and you you were up like that is an unbelievable level of cardio. What was that like?
Death it's it's funny because so in my in my sparring
I had really not been able to make it through three full rounds without having to take some extra gasps
sparring I don't like sparring because you have to wear the headgear and the headgear it
It makes me feel claustrophobic. I'd never really had that feeling before
Because you're sucking so much air in
It's something so much wind like having the headgear on it makes it like so much worse
So it was actually there's a lot more freeing for me fighting without the headgear
Felt like I could breathe better people might have certainly seen there were several times. I'm stopping. I'm looking at the clock
I'm looking at the clock and I'm impressed with myself when I'm looking at the clock. I'm like
Fuck I already made it through a minute. All right, I'm kind of admiring it a little bit, you know
Uh, I'm not feeling extremely gassed certainly at the end of the second round
I'm feeling pretty gassed and then in between the second third round
Man, I I thought I won. I I didn't know I have to I have to go back out there for the third round
I didn't realize they gave him the first round. I thought I thought I won
One more round, yeah, well, it's better for the tv it was better for the show
It was better for the tv and it worked out really well for me
But I thought I had won after the second round
Because I didn't realize they gave him the first round because he knocked me down because I was just out of balance
Um, and I know like it's so it's so perfect
I got knocked down in the beginning too, right because I I know what half the people are thinking half people are thinking
This is a joke to me as people are thinking. Oh, you know
I can't wait to watch people get hit in the face 30 seconds in there. I am on the ground
There I am on the ground. I didn't even realize I got I got on the ground
Until I watched the fight. Yeah, that was that was a hell of a sidekick. I will say yeah
yeah, so I I went down real quick and then and then I got up
And I went straight into grabbing his knee before he could get down and hit me
The way that I got knocked down and got back up and continue throwing the hay makers and you know the cardio
The altitude is you're only getting 65 of the oxygen at that level
And it's I paid the price work
I I paid the price for it. Um
On the lungs afterwards. So today's afterwards. I mean, I don't know I may have bronchitis actually
I'm gonna have to probably get it checked out
I hope it's just the altitude sickness, but it does a number on your lungs for sure
So hopefully my next fight will see at sea level or close to it
So i'm not gonna have to worry about that. It'll just be that much better for me
So I got a question for you. All right, sure my
Something that I saw someone say I honestly after I read I was like 100
I think that there this is my personal opinion. I think that there is a large sect of people
That you represent in in a very significant and tangible way
Effectively like what they wish they were I i'm dead serious
I think a lot of people at this point especially what you've just done
Look up to you in a way. It's like I wish I wish I was I wish I was like him
For better or for worse, right? Like it's been an unhinged past year and
I'm just curious. Like what is you know?
What's the what's what's that feel like?
You know, it's what's on your mind about it, you know
Yeah, well, I think for me
it's one of these things where
I'm trying to think the best way to say this without you know trying to like
To my own horn like i'm kind of just a unique special person like i'm very unique and i'm i'm able to
You know the fact that I went in and this is why
The people who overthrew me for my company overthrew me for my company because I have something
That you can't put into words and it's it i've come to learn this
I've just now over the last one to two years
Have realized you know, to be honest with you cassie's helped me see it
Is that there's just something special the fact that guys nobody in mexico city knew who I was
The people that were at that fight for the most part that were not crypto or actual karate combat fans
They're appealed from mexico city though that got tickets to come right because the whole thing is it's free because
They're making money on the advertisers, right?
So you've got all these people in mexico city that don't know who I am
BitBoy that means nothing to them
And in the third round you can hear at the end
Geppetto and people are like, what are they talking about? Geppetto?
I I have I don't know who they're cheering for. Um, I don't know who Geppetto is
No, it's because I have white hair. They're literally calling me Geppetto from Pinocchio
Look at this old guy out here beating the fuck out of this guy. They loved it and I it's just this thing that we're
This I'm nobody special to those people
But for some reason there's just something about I think it's good people can see my heart like people can see my heart
They see that I put my I put on the line
With everything that I do and that's why I've had wild successes and i've had huge
You know destructive times, you know, so
Certainly the thing about me. Um, I now have
This is kind of a really cool thing and I think that this is something it's not about me. This is about crypto. Okay
I have i'm obviously like one of the you know, more influential people in the crypto space. I think most people would agree with that
a viral mma video going around
Viral poker video where I got knocked out with poker, you know pocket aces in the world
Here's a poker main event, you know went out 135th after I was a chip leader
I'm i'm able to use whatever these special gifts that I have
To penetrate different mainstream niches, which let me let me ask you about that
I'm actually curious because you have a you have a very fascinating position
Uh, and this is like just generally where your twitter audience is vastly different from your youtube, etc audiences
Right. What what's what's that like?
Yeah, well twitter just by nature obviously is more, you know, we can use the word toxic or whatever word you want to say
It's a lot harsher than youtube
Generally, I don't get bad comments on youtube, uh in my live streams, you know, they're terrible people that come in and say horrible things
They get removed pretty quickly, you know, so
Twitter is a whole different animal and you just have to learn to to morph and adjust to it
I don't you know, social media doesn't bother me at all
If people it's funny. I see this with with people like cassie, you know, my girlfriend
I love her a lot and uh, she's she's going through this process of now
She's becoming like kind of a known person and you go through this process of becoming a known person
And you start getting flack especially with all the stuff we've been through obviously
We start getting flack from all kinds of people and it's it's a process i'm having to watch her go through the same process that
Which is you just learn to?
Weed out the hate. It doesn't mean you ignore it completely. You know that it exists you see comments
They just don't do anything to you. Uh, and and look the the great comments
I still love still love the great comments and in some bad comments
Sometimes I take some constructive criticism if I happen to see them
But what I think a lot of people don't realize is when you're in my position with as much hate as I get
With as much time as I spend on social media
I still I only see like probably two or three percent of it
And so when people are throwing darts at you all the time
They're throwing at the wrong board, you know, because i'm not i'm not seeing them
Everybody's got to get to a position in social media where you're comfortable with with your audience and
You're comfortable with if you get criticism and things like that
What's been really difficult for me and the hardest process for me?
Has been that people just don't understand me at all. I think i'm definitely the most misunderstood person in crypto
I would say because when people meet me in real life, they're like, oh my gosh
You're not who I thought you were well
You watch my show like not really a couple times, but I just see all the stuff on the internet about you
I'm like, yeah, that's all it is. It's stuff on the internet like that, you know
Most of what you see about me is just 100 incorrect factually incorrect
And I think now it's a beautiful moment for me to be able to kind of pivot and get past a lot of that stuff
Because I think even for a lot of my haters
I think I earned a lot of respect over this weekend and i'm sure over time that will wane and i'm sure like, you know
I'm controversial because i'm passionate and I have opinions on stuff that people don't always like but I am going to try
You know, I am what you're getting centered for this fight and getting focused. I am trying to be a little more controlled and a little more
Uh, you know, I don't want to attack people anymore. Certainly there there are people in times
Where that is necessary obviously when I knew
There were problems with ftx and there were problems with sam
Obviously, I needed to say that stuff, right?
but I don't always need to attack every youtuber who has a different opinion of mine or
I don't always need to attack everybody on twitter because they don't agree with my position on something or something I did
And I think just letting people
Kind of be, you know kind of free to be themselves and me being a little more free to to be myself
I think that's kind of the the route that you don't want to go forward
I'm tired of making enemies and at this point, I don't I don't need to prove i'm a tough guy anymore
Well, hell yeah, ben. You know what i'll just take a moment. Um
In a hilarious twist of events welcoming charles hoskinson the founder of ada on stage
I'm curious charles dude. Nice to nice to meet you. I'm curious. You got a question for ben. What's going on, man?
Oh, is he did he is he on stage for you? He's connecting on my end
So frustrating. Oh, that's that's by the way
Like one of the funniest one of the funniest ways this could have gone
You know elon was right like the funniest outcome always always the most like yeah, the most entertaining outcome is the most likely. Yeah
Well, let me give you guys something you don't know, uh, which is a little more inside
It's something that's really funny about this little connection with charles, you know, possibly hopping on he did. He did tell me good job on twitter
I've always had a good relationship charles. I'll always like charles. But uh, an interesting thing is the first time
The crypto fight was ever really put out there
Was charles hoskinson offering a fight to a specific youtuber who declined him?
Uh for all kinds of different reasons i'm not actually allowed to say this person's name
Uh, but uh charles maybe people remember charles actually wanting to do an mma fight was the first person that got me interested in the
Would you would you fight charles
Have you guys ever seen that man in a black shirt in a garden? Uh, hell no, I wouldn't fight
I have I have seen him at least in a uh in an in an ice bath
Uh, I don't walk around with a you know falcon on my arm
Uh, so no, I wouldn't I wouldn't have a charles. I wouldn't I would not fight charles
Uh, I will say that charles is not in my list of people that I would even fight
but I was telling you know, I was talking to cassie about this because
I was talking about the story about how he was actually the first person who
Had put out this idea of him back in 2019. I think about doing crypto fights
In the guy back down and I I told her I said look I said charles
Look charles is not known for being a tough guy obviously
However charles is very successful
And when charles said that we threw out that offer to that guy and said hey
I will train uh, let's do this. We'll book it in six months. We'll train for six months. We'll do this
There's no doubt in my mind that charles hoskinson really decided that he did want to fight somebody
That he would do exactly what I did and he would train and he would do what needed to be done and he would fight
And he would you know, so vulnerable here charles. Can you hear us now? Is it working guys?
I joined from my desktop and uh, and you know, it's just twitter's a piece of shit
But anyway, I I just wanted to join real quick to congratulate ben on a great fight. I uh,
I watch you man. You you really kicked some ass
It was it was very clear that you'd gone the distance in terms of training and endurance and uh, you know
People were picking a little bit on forum. I'm like, fuck you guys
That the if you look at it ms ufc, it takes like 20 years to to look like that
If you walk in with six months of training, that's really impressive what you did
Yeah, well, thank you so much that obviously means means a lot, you know coming from you
And I was sharing the funny story about how you were actually the first person who I saw
um, you know pushing out the idea of crypto fights back in 2019 that you were talking about, you know training and fighting somebody and
um, I I think that yeah, it definitely went the distance and
Charles, uh, who are you gonna call out? Who are you gonna fight somebody? Oh, yeah, there we go
Well, you know, I I messaged, uh crypto crow after the fight, you know
Because he's been a friend of mine for a long time as well and he was a professional fighter
I said, how you feeling? He said my foot hurts man. I'm getting too old for this shit
I said, oh you still got it
You know, you're still the tower of pain and I thought he had trained you because I saw you guys together in the picture
And he said no, no ben ben had his own regimen had his own thing going on
And I didn't even know the fight was uh was was going to happen until I saw it on uh twitter
So that was real fun. Uh, you know, there was the whole chico crypto thing. You you kind of referenced it
Uh way way back in the day and that would have been a lot of fun
And I actually tried to get jason to set it up and then uh chico dropped out, you know
I said, oh, I can't do it if jason's promoting he's a scammer. It's like now you're just scared, man
But uh, those were that's a long time ago. That was like what three years four years ago
Yeah, that was back that was back in uh 2019, uh, sorry i'm trying to i'm actually out of uh
Auction here trying to find a phone charger real quick. My phone's gonna go dead. You guys give me one second
Yeah, take your time. Wow. That is
I will i'll be honest with you. This is like peak comedy this
Yo, we're living in a fucking simulation
Yeah, this is black mirror as fuck bro. Like I swear to god. This is black mirror
Charles i'm curious in the while ben's while ben's working. Do you have a do you have a message for the number one?
Ada influencer wobbed out ethereum
Well, i'm just so glad that he decided that it's the best chain in the whole world to migrate over
We didn't have to pay anything. He just came of his own free will and uh, you know
It's uh, just glad to have him here and glad to have all the the wonderful traffic and other things
It's uh, it's a big family these days. We got the polka dot people the algorand people, you know
Probably do something with polygon and we're even talking to the ethereum people these days. We just did a quantum computing conference with them
Okay, i'm back. Uh, we just had to man. I tell you that was a charger
Emergency that was a one percent. Uh, but yeah, so charles talking about uh, yeah calling that guy out in 2019
I was telling him charles. I was saying that uh, you know, I they you know, I was telling that casting my girlfriend last night
Uh, we were talking about when you called him out and I said, I said, you know what?
I said charles. Look charles. Definitely people wouldn't think like charles is a fighter
But if you wanted to fight somebody and you trained
I certainly believe that you would get out there and you would do really well
Just like I did and you would do the train because you know when you have the right mindset
That's what it's about and and when you have you know
When you're going to be successful you got to put in the work and that's really what cardano is all about really right
Is putting in the work and doing everything the right way and getting the end result that you want
Yep, a hundred percent you just every day you got to show up make some incremental progress and it's just like the ice bath
You know, I I started with a cold plunge in the office
It's at 37 degrees and I said, you know
My my short-term goal is to cut a hole in the lake and get my fat ass out there
It's good that I have like a walrus layer on me
So I have a little bit more cold tolerance since it's at the one thing in life where being a fat guy actually helps
But yeah jumped in the lake and I was out in the middle of fucking wyoming in the winter
We it was eight inches of ice on the on the lake top and that wind was just brutal and spent three minutes in the water
So, you know every day you just kind of build something up when I was a kid
I did judo and taekwondo and I never got to like a black belt or anything
But I did one a few medals for various tournaments
And so it's it's just a mindset and it's the the willingness to put the work in
And also the training regimen of being hit you have to be used to being hit
It's really easy to punch hard
but it's a lot harder to actually take damage and
Get used to that pick yourself back up and still think clearly while that happens. It's and that's what your fight
I noticed you took that really tough punch. Was that like a a right hook or something and it knocked you down that happened like
Yeah, he was actually he's a southpaw. So it was actually a left a left cross
I think maybe it was a hook but uh, I didn't even really feel it. Um, I I know that
I hit the ground and I as i'm hitting the ground i'm like, ah, come on guys
This is exactly what people thought was gonna happen and here we are me on the ground, you know
I got right back up and you know try to try to go for his leg
Uh, but that was you know, i'll be really honest with that shot when he knocked me down. I definitely felt it
Uh, there were a couple shots I felt
But there wasn't you know being able to take a punch is is a very interesting thing and i'm talking to my trainer about it today
My trainer, you know, we're talking about, you know, I definitely do one more fight
I don't know when it's going to be but I do at least one more
And then we'll see, you know what happens after there. I've got to have uh, I have to get consent to fight after that
I think but uh what you know one one more fight. Um, you know in
And uh, you know train hard for that. We don't really know what I do after that
But my trainer was telling me that if I whatever I want to do a fighting I could because
There's only one thing in fighting that you cannot teach
And it's hard is somebody being able to go out there and being able to take the punch and get back up
Dude, you were you were like standing you stuck your tongue out and we're like mocking him at one point
It was the funniest thing i've ever seen it was actually crazy impressive
Well, I mean it was real and it was authentic because I like look i'm not trying to sound cocky
But after when he knocked me down the first one I came I gave him a couple good shots
After that first round I knew I had him my trainer told me he's like look you just use your jab
You got him and so, you know, it really was like hey, whatever you want. Come at me hit me
It doesn't matter that you're not gonna be able to beat me
And it really was coming from a place of you know
I guess that just really primal like you know
Now if people said there was one spot in the fight
Where people will see where I I just where I give him probably the best shot
I gave him if not one of the two or three best ones
And he he i'm saying something to him people. What were you saying to him?
God, man, you can take a punch my god
Like I couldn't believe he was still standing after that shot. That's what i'm saying
I actually wasn't trash talking him
I was actually giving a compliment like I couldn't believe he was still standing after that shot
And you look you have got you got to give so much credit
Uh to matt leddy to more light
That guy standing in there taking those punches like that and I i'm from for my character redemption arc, I guess you could say
Uh, certainly it's more favorable that it went the way that it went and it lasted the distance
It sent me coming in and getting a quick knockout
But I earned that victory with every single second because that guy is tough as nails and
I don't know how many more rounds it was going to take to knock him out
Uh, but that guy was not going to go down unless he was unconscious. Yeah, let's just be clear more lights of badass
Like that was for sure. That was a hella impressive fight. Yes
I I I don't I can't I had no idea I was fighting someone that was such a badass
Though ben. Did you see i'm just um, it was one of the funniest moments immediately following the fight
You were like ben coin immediately shot up about 20 percent whereas ticker bitcoin immediately shot down
10 20 percent that was one of the funniest things. I think I may have ever seen as well
Like that was hilarious that whoever put that put that graphic together. Uh, it was really funny. So
Um, and look you had to know it was gonna happen. I thought a lot more about shorting uh shorting ticker bitcoin
Uh than I did long and ben coin on the fight
So, uh, I knew that thing was gonna, uh, you know was gonna take a dive whenever he did
Uh, but once again tough guy never took the dive. So that was essentially social fire
It's actually pretty much exactly what it was
Yeah, the numbers regarding combat were great for the fight so
They are they're killing it by the way. They are actually kill. I will say one one comment on it
I you know, I wish they didn't like put you guys
After and everyone just started to like filter out
That was a weird a weird section part
And I think they're gonna resolve that like we saw ice bags talk about that and props to what they're doing over there
Like karate combat one of the most impressive showings we've seen
Charles and I got another I got another quick question for charles by the way
Charles I think like everyone's probably everyone would want to know so i'll just ask on behalf of the audience
You can fight like you have to give me one answer. You have to fight one other blockchain founder
Well, I mean there was who would i'd want to fight but then there's the you know
Who would be a fun fight that would actually be fun to watch?
I mean, it would be a hell of a lot of fun to do vitalik buterin, but I mean, come on guys. I just
We're the same height but goddamn that would be murder
But no, no, you know, it would be fun
There's some guys out there that'd be probably pretty tough if they trained like emin gunseer from
He's a disciplined guy and he's tough guys got that turkish anger man
God bless jonah, what was what was that that tweet that you were putting out like and it had like spreads of like
People keep trying to get me in the ring. I it's it's not my thing
That's not what I don't and why was it against the little pudgies? Like what was going on?
I don't know. I think someone's just fucking dissing him. So there's like a part of um, I we don't we don't we don't need jonah
Jonah, this is irrelevant. We don't need to talk about so there's already no jonah jonah. I am straight up
I'm gonna view you. We are not talking about me fighting
Ask him who he's gonna fight we talk about bit boy fighting. Let's let's talk about what's going on
Before we move on to jonah before we move down to jonah ben before you mocked his ass
Uh, why were you sweating so much before the fight started?
Like, you know, you fucking mocked him bro. That was phenomenal. I watched the whole fight. I watched all the fights actually
Patiently waiting for you for that fight and I saw that the ref had to pat you down and dry you for the fight
Were you warming up pre-fight or what? What's the deal there?
Uh, i'm not really sure. Uh, what'd you tell me? They put vaseline on me
Uh, you know they put vaseline on no, no the ref before the fight started bought a towel you were sweating man
Like I don't know. Oh really? Yeah
Well, I I will tell you. Um, you know, I I was back and yeah, I mean
For people that don't know what the back of a locker room looks like for a fight like this. I had no idea
I I thought it was I don't know. I thought it'd be in a room somewhere and it looked real nice and they'd have like nice
Uh, no, there's nowhere to there's just a couple like folding chairs back there and there's not a lot going on
There's a pad and people are getting ready warming up for a fight. So yeah, we're back there doing pad work
Uh, we're back there doing pad work
Um where i'm i'm keeping my feet moving you don't want to be
I slept I took a nap from about 12 to 3 that day. So 3 o'clock. I woke up body was kind of reset
Uh ready to you know ready to go out and do the fight that night
Um, but i'm i'm also a very sweaty person by nature period
Uh, so I don't know I try to wear black so I don't have sweat stains all the time
So my head my hair i'm always sweating from my head
Uh, and my back is always sweaty too. So yeah, i'm just i'm just a warm nature person
There's no doubt. I was out there sweaty, but I was focused and I was ready to roll
And uh one of the one it was a couple guys told me that I might have been going a little too hard out
You know in the in the pre-warm up
Uh, but I would push up against that and say I did exactly what I needed to do to win the fight
So everything worked out perfect
Congrats on the w man, dude, and you you you basically became at least for the night the face of mogg
That was a that was a move man, congratulations on that
That that's what I was aiming for guys. Uh, that's what I put in all the training for
Uh was whatever that coin is or an nfc year. I don't know what it is, but to be be that
That's why I did it all guys. Yeah. So what's next?
like what what what what are you hoping because
What you're getting at and what is like this was actually a crazy launch pad for effectively the redemption arc like you were saying
What is this redemption arc like is it does it start with mary and cat which by the way congrats
Congratulations on the pending
Uh of cassie. I saw that tweet and actually like props man
Thank you. What's the uh, what's the future like?
Well, I mean the future is me and cassie and and I think people are going to come to find out that this is a much
Better version of me and she's behind me and I believe that uh, you know together we're going to be
dominant force in the space for a long time because she knows
So much about crypto. Uh, she's the one that put me on to sweet. Uh, she's the one that put me on to
What's another coin you put me on to?
Zeta zeta chain see this uh, sweet sweet pat or sweet swap. Which one was that?
Anyways, uh, she she's put me on to a lot of coins at high cassie by the way. She's a d gen
She's a d gen d gen d gen and and and I think that
Um, you know for now, it's almost like there's two of me with research and and and being able to do a lot of different stuff
And of course we have been coin as well. We're working on so
Ben coin is really it's crypto adoption is what the focus is
And I think that a lot of people just can't
We never even touch the treasury guys. I still got all the same coins in it
Uh, so, you know, we're really passionate about crypto adoption and that's what that's what I really want to do
What I want to parlay is I do seem to be the one person
Uh that can punch through no pun intended
Into the mainstream and if that has been made hilarious, that was a hilarious pun by the way. Well, thank you
I appreciate that once I started I was like i'm just gonna go with it
And so, uh, you know I punched through it and so the fact is though is is that
Because of that I want to leverage vin coin and I want to leverage my position
to be able to push crypto adoption and like the fact that
The crypto fight is what really sold that karate combat event
Um had the peak viewers during my fight is the viral clips is going on all over the place or from our fight
Like it just shows that when we put ourselves out there we start
You know finding these little niches where we can start showing the value of crypto
That's how we all push this forward together for my personal life. My future is me and kazi
I cannot wait to marry her. She's the most amazing thing that has ever happened to me
And and I can't wait for people to start experiencing that
Um and seeing that from you know, uh all the way around and uh, that that's personal life stuff
That's supposed to be professional stuff
But for me in crypto what i'm really focused on is leveraging this bull run for crypto adoption
To be able to bring people in to be able to make changes
To be able to see you know, like look you got your salona centralized chain. I look like salona is an investment
Uh, you know charles don't kill me for that. Uh, you guys know I am the soul of salona
Uh, but the fact is is that uh, we are starting to see now
There'd be more actual use of crypto in a lot of different ways
It's really exciting to watch and I love what charles and carna are doing in africa and other places for crypto adoption
Uh, but there there are ways that we can all help crypto adoption here at home and it can be something as simple as
Going and doing karate in an event. Uh, it doesn't have to be everybody sacrificing your whole entire life for crypto adoption
Ben you know what that is?
It is it is you and like charles did this as well with like the ice baths
What it is is it's making you these people that people are kind of like these ethereal figures in the crypto world
Are effectively much more just genuine and it's the uh, everyone like laughs about authenticity, but
those ice baths and fighting literally fighting and
Actually, you know putting blood and sweat into the mat
It makes people, you know feel like all right. This is a real human
This is someone that I can actually you know, envision myself talking to for a day
It takes a lot of courage to take your shirt off and the internet guys
Ben do you mind me asking like at a high level some
Like things that come to mind in terms of strategy to use ben coin for adoption. Sure. Yeah
Oh wait, wait, you are that was very very open-ended. Yeah. Oh, I thought you were about to tell me
I was like wow, this guy's gonna tell me what I should do with my coin. I'm sure i'm all here
I could send you a follow-up email with that as well though
Right. So so one thing is, you know, I really like uh, the hex community
The hex community is very passionate and look people can criticize them
That is a bold statement then that that community knows how to use crypto
They know how to use crypto
Better than almost any other community out there because to buy hex you're forced to do it in a decentralized way
You had to actually be deeper than just going on coinbase and for that reason
I think their community has a lot of good ideas about onboarding and crypto adoption and i'm listening to those ideas
So i've created a little room my discord server. Maybe don't show crypto xiv server
Um for we're calling it the ben hex coalition
Where we're going to look at ways that we can help actually bring crypto adoption
And I think that you know people have got to start separating the money
Sorry, excuse me one day they'll be congruent
But right now people are separating the investing side
Of of being able to invest into coins for a bull run where price go up
And then investing in the long term for like what we're actually wanting to achieve and do with crypto
Because just like uh, you know charles over there. I know charles. We've had a conversation about this in in real life
We have the same mindset about crypto adoption
It's coming. It's just a matter of time and you have to work for it. It is not something
Uh, that's just gonna gonna turn on but one day we're going to have this new decentralized world
Or either the ai is going to take us over
You really can't do ai properly without blockchain and decentralization. So
You know, we've got to move to a place where
Uh, we are showing the true value of what we're doing out here in crypto
And with ben coin, you know some of the ways we're going to be doing that or through educate, you know, crypto education
We're gonna uh, look I can't I can't talk publicly about what's going on
Uh with uh, my lawsuit and my previous company and things like that
Uh with that stuff and you know
Was that was that a fax machine is in the car that's a fact oh that that's actually
Cassie I don't know if you could hear us, but if you've just started a car you've just taken the blue
Just just saying just saying
While we have that sorted i'm gonna hold for a second
I actually do have a question for charles as well totally separate total total diversion, but just on top of my head
It's two parters. But first part quick. Are you going to eat denver? It's like in your neck of the woods
Yeah, they never invite me and it's uh, that's like a running gag
But I always show up and they always give me a ticket at the gate
Uh, so i'll be there i'm going to a helicopter expo in anahym until wednesday
But uh i'll probably be there either thursday or friday and I always go and speak at the satellite events and just kind of walk
Uh, some people scowl at me and other people want to take a picture with me
It's uh, it's a lively event and I wish they would move it because there's just too many people in that fucking crazy castle
With all the drugs and this stuff
Oh my god, you just you see this psychedelic room that they have they just got people that are just like
Drugged out of their mind laying in multicolors and laser shows and weird music. It's uh, it's got a vibe
so and then i'll ask you i'll ask you a little bit more of a
aggressive question per se
On I and because we were just talking about it earlier during the space and I just I want to know if you've got thoughts on it
Btc has a already like existing etf running by the way just for now ben muting you just because I don't know what's going on
I want to make sure you're good. So we have like the btc etf
We have the eth etf pending possible
I want to know like what are your thoughts on some of these etfs both the btc and potentially depending eth one just
I mean, they're open ecosystems and if they have value people will create financial products for them
I believe grayscale actually created a financial product that contained eta for example
And so it's not surprising and people always want to take a position in these these ecosystems and this just allows retail exposure
Within reason it does change the power dynamics a little bit
Which is why we created the minotaur protocol and you know
It's why we are looking to the future about how to make the systems more egalitarian
because if you have a solely stake-based system
And the majority of that stake ends up being held by centralized actors whether they be custodians exchanges or etfs or
Other financial products and what ends up happening is the majority of the voting power falls in the hands of a very small group of people
So you have to diversify and some hybridization of other levers other resources of decision making from
From a security and governance viewpoint is is necessary, but you can't stop it
You know, I for i've been in this space for over 10 years and i've been telling people stop putting your money on exchanges
I think 68 percent of all ether and circulation at the moment is is sitting on exchanges and it's like people just
Do that it's what they're going to do
So you you can either yell at people for doing the wrong thing or you can accept that that's the consumer reality
And you have to look at different governance and security models to protect and inhibit these consequences of their behavior
Um as for markets, you know any place there is an opportunity to make profit people are going to come in and make profit
There are people I know in central america who go around buying batshit
Literally back guano they make a fortune doing it. They lease out these canes
What yeah because apparently it has some some great properties and it's great for fertilizer and other things
In fact, a lot of people believe the covet bats came from that there was a copper mine that was abandoned in china
And they used it for guano harvesting and some of the workers there got sick and uh, then um that one of the scientists
Studied that and went back to the cave and got the bats
So if you're looking at the origins of covet, you can actually see that whole thing
We used to make a lot of money way back in the day in carlsbad cavern in in america selling all the back guano
So the point is that people make markets and it doesn't matter if you're selling batshit or ether
Kind of has some similarities. Um, it ends up it ends up making profit for somebody and people want to buy it
I will I will ask one more question because i'm not going to make this like the most boring
Can you tell me you know the ins and outs of ethereum and your opinions?
But I do have one question just like one more on this
Specifically we had naveen earlier talking about
He talked about it earlier earlier today and last week
That he's concerned that the eth etf as a proof of stake system poses like a serious a serious serious risk
To eth as a decentralized system
Point, you know point blank
I'm curious if you got an opinion there. Yes
And for any proof of stake system and that's why several years ago
We we created a multi-resource consensus paper
The co-author by the way sherim is the guy who created eigenlayer, which is what everybody's all hot and bothered about
It's kind of funny. It's like we we're a ghost chain. We're incompetent. We don't know anything
We're incapable of doing anything
But when you look at the 201 papers we've published
All this stuff on ethereum a lot of the co-authors are building that stuff there
In addition to building the stuff in other ecosystems
So we kind of predicted this years ago that
The market was going to move in this particular direction and stake-based systems are at risk when ball street comes in
And it's the same with stablecoins asset-backed stablecoins. They have to pick a winner
And so basically you're handing to circle and tether
Almost complete power in which works are legitimate and which works are not even vitalik himself admitted that in an interview
That uh, the the asset-backed stablecoins have this influence
So between the financial infrastructure like the etfs the
asset-backed stablecoins and the exchanges
You have less than 10 actors that really have an enormous amount of influence and control over the governance
In future direction of the system and I believe what they're going to do
Is they're going to first go against proof of work systems and they'll say they're energy inefficient
We already see this with the epa going after miners
And then I also think what they're going to do is start pushing for kyc at the endpoints
And so they're going to go after the wallet guys next if
The biden administration preserves its power base and they're going to say hey for non-custodial wallets and custodial wallets
We get to use them. There's some form of identification that's going to be required so that every transaction is not naked
But rather end to end there's identity at the end point
And they're going to try to build this in a chain level and uh use this soft power to push chains in that particular direction
From the validation level to otherwise and I know these crypto anarchists run around
To happen, but look who owns your chain and if the only priority you have is number go up in high liquidity
Well, the people who make the number go up and the people that give you liquidity. Basically, that's their criteria
That's the ring that you have to kiss. So you have to really think carefully about these things
It's pretty deep for 10 47 pm on a on a sunday night, man
Well, I mean, sorry, I think you're in I think you're three hours behind. So
Adam I am curious though. I know adam has a fun question
It's on your mind man. Good to see you. I was gonna say you went a crazy one for 10 47
I'm on a plane right now. Hit me. Hit you're on a plane. Yeah. Yeah, it just literally landed. Um
Dude, I saw charles up here. I was like, oh fuck. Yeah, that's just like nine months ago. I was reading an article about
Cardano and quantum computing like quantum resistance and I thought it was really fascinating
Um, so I just want to come up here and ask charles like quick tldr on what?
Your thoughts are on quantum computing when it comes to blockchain and when creating I guess maybe
Quantum resistance or maybe just explain it because I feel like a smooth brain when I read about this recently
We we've been working with nist amongst a lot of other cryptographic groups like louven and aris
For years on their competition for for basically post-quantum primitives on both the encryption side and signature side
And the good news is one second
the good news is that we have very strong mathematical primitives to protect against grovers and
Shores algorithm and all these other things that exist in the quantum information theory world
Um, and for example hash based crypto lattice based crypto learning there
You can modify elliptic curves with a property called super singular asogenes
So magic moon math, but the long and short is we can protect with the great degree of comfort and specificity against quantum computing
The problem is that there are substantial trade-offs for adopting these systems in particular
The signature sizes are are substantially larger and that translates to much lower tps in the chains and faster chain growth
Um, and also there is no hardware level optimization. So when you have an iphone or a
samsung phone or you have an ipad or you know a
Apple computer with that apple silicon
Inside the chips are specialized cores that accelerate crypto sometimes up to a thousand x faster than when it runs in software
None of that acceleration exists in uh in chips today for post-quantum algorithms
So the first step is don't be a hero wait for the department of commerce to standardize
And they're almost done with those standards
Which is why we worked with them amongst many others to get them where they needed to be
And then once those standards come out the hardware manufacturers pick them
And then they integrate those into the chips and then whatever they are
You can integrate those into the cryptocurrencies and at least you get this speed up on the hardware side
But unfortunately can't get the signature sizes much smaller algorand did some great work
They create an algorithm called falcon and zuko actually has done some very good work as well
the creator of zcash with algorithms like sphinx
Xmss and these types of things he's been in a pioneer in that particular field
But it's not just protection of signatures
It's also all these other cryptographic primitives like everybody's in love with rollups and everybody's in love with zero knowledge cryptography
And the the guts of ethereum and most other things require either a vdf or vrf
All of those things are currently vulnerable to quantum computing
So your cryptographic primitives have to be reconstructed as well, and that takes an enormous amount of work
To get there and uh, you know five years six years. I think we'll have that entire suite completed and done
But the bottleneck is not our industry the bottleneck is the department of commerce because then once they've standardized they mandate
That all government procurement has to work this way. So all fortune 500 companies will basically adopt that
And typically they don't deviate unless there's an exceedingly good reason
For example, there's an urgent threat or the standard doesn't cover a use case. That's become quite large
And historically that's actually been the case with sec p256 k1 the elliptic curve that's chosen for bitcoin
It's actually a non-standard curve and it was
Weird that satoshi picked it because it turned out it wasn't a compromise curve and the nsa had never done anything
So it seems like he had some insider knowledge there that because it was a strange curve to pick relative to others
It doesn't have as nice properties as like bls or these types of things
And you know if I was naively in his position creating bitcoin, I would have picked bls
Um, you know because it gives you so much more
So the so anyway, that's that's the long and the short in terms of why there are a threat
It's just basically what it allows you to do is is take a certain class of compute
Computations and kind of look ahead in a way that allows you to solve those computations much much faster
Than you could on a classical computer and most cryptography that's asymmetric
It relies on the notion of a really hard mathematical problem in one direction and really easy in the other direction
So your public key to go from public key to private key
It's really hard but to go from private key to public key. It's really easy
But with a quantum computer you have symmetry there. It's actually easy to go in both directions
It's a gross simplification of it. But you know
This lady and I weren't we're not going to talk about how that works
Yeah, I encourage you to read a book called quantum computing for everyone. It's a really nice book
It's like 20 bucks on amazon and it can basically take you through everything and kind of take that smooth brain and
Sand it out a little bit, you know
Give you give you some nice ripples and things like that
So you can you can really understand what's going on, but I wouldn't worry about it. It's it's
There's a huge amount of progress in quantum computing
And we just had a quantum computing conference with ironically the ethereum foundation and their scientists came with our scientists because we invented something
In the quantum computing space with some people out of princeton. It's called
One-shot signatures and they were super interested in it because it solves a lot of problems in their ecosystem
We don't suffer from them, but for their ecosystem it solves some problems
They were excited about the prospect of you know
The horizonality of a primitive like that and we talked with a lot of the people who build quantum computers for a living
The rate limiting factor is air correction at the moment. It's getting much better
But they're still not able to have mainstream quantum computers that can do high fidelity consistent computing
Over a horizon, but I think in 2030s, they will get there especially with the merger of agi
In quantum computing. Yeah, ben. What do you what do you think about quantum computing ben?
Yeah, I I think uh a lot about quantum computing. I think that
Um, you know, it's something i've i've done a little bit studying. I I don't i'm not going to pretend to understand it
Kathy's terrified of it. I know that
But I think that the concerns like charles kind of said here are very overblown. They're real
But they're overblown because we're not anywhere near the point yet where this is going to matter. However, uh, you know
You start hitting, uh, you know bitcoin cycle maybe around 2040
Or so, uh, and you start well, that's probably isn't right. Uh, I think
I did a chart I think 2039 or something
But the point is is whenever that one comes around, uh, like he's saying the 30s by then
In the next 15 years, I think probably something will have to be done with a consensus
Uh to change maybe change the the may charles can correct me if i'm wrong
This isn't this isn't a thing
But I think they'll have to increase the encryption, you know
From shot 256 or whatever it is to a higher level and that can be done through consensus on the bitcoin network
Because at some point they're gonna have to preempt it because at some point shot 256 will definitely get cracked
uh, but the bitcoin network should be way ahead of it and and and and the way that you'll know
The shot 256 gets cracked because bitcoin will be dead overnight, right because the shot 256 gets cracked
Uh, and the encryption is gone. That's why it's got to be preempted a pretty good bit
You don't want somebody to sneak in and figure it out, you know earlier, but uh, you know coin computing is absolutely insane
What's about and i'll say this guys. Um, I got to jump off. I've been on here for about an hour
I do have uh guys. This is crazy. I know I have a girlfriend
And she needs some attention. Uh, so does she not understand that the great charles hoskinson is here
Ben was gonna get off like no, you don't know you don't you love you love salada salada is your first love
Oh, no, that's no. No, i'm just I i'm the sultan. Okay. I'm the sultan of salana. It wasn't a character
I chose. Okay, it chose me. I can't help it
Uh, but we have a good time with the centralized blockchain. We love it. We named our dog. I think charles will love this
We named our little french bulldog. Uh, we named her salana. She's actually at puppy boarding school right now
She'll be back this week. Her name is salana and her nickname is miss pause. Did you say puppy boarding school?
Yeah, she's in puppy boarding school. Uh, she's got to learn to poop outside and uh, that's well
Yeah, well guys, so why do you think I fought? Okay
Those girls are crazy. You like that? Yeah. Yeah, you got the bitcoin tooth in it
I had that made a few years ago and I haven't worn it
Um, because I just I don't know I didn't didn't feel cool enough. I guess once I felt like hey
I'm actually gonna go in and beat somebody up
In front of a bunch of people. I guess I felt cool enough to wear it
So I do the grill is a fun thing. Look i'm from atlanta. I love rap
I'm on the you know on the hip hop culture and stuff
I always have been and so I love having a grill. It's a really cool flex
So, um, it's something I have a lot of fun with you guys
A lot of people it's so funny
Like you guys know that picture of me on the lamborghini with the with the green gucci suit
Which kathy has a jacket great picture by the way. It's a great picture that picture is I made that picture
Because it looks so ridiculous like I don't I didn't think that was a cool picture and it's so funny that people
I this it's the hex strategy. That's what it is. It is. Well, yes, i'm i'm a poor i'm a wish.com version richard heart. I was
All right, richard. Yeah, ben. I got a question for you before you go. I know you gotta go
I gotta get going too. I I just wanted to drop. I I didn't mean to hijack your uh, your your x base
Oh, no, yeah, but but you got one more fight left in you. So i'm wondering
Why not you and richard heart and engage the whole hex community? Come on
Everybody's dying to see that fight
If if richard would fight me, I would agree to it. I do like richard. I I like him a lot but
Uh, if richard would agree to do it
For crypto adoption, uh, then I I would definitely go to that would be the greatest event i've ever seen
I would I would put money on the table for a fight like that. That would be that would be so much fun to watch
You know richard's gonna come in and out of a spaceship or something. He's gonna parachute in, you know
He's gonna be over the top. Well, well charles listen, let's uh, let's get together at some point
I'd love to have you for an interview on the channel soon. Have you back on it's been been a while. So
Um, maybe we can get that going and uh, appreciate everybody else having me on and and hearing me out
Thank you for coming through. This has been a hell of a night and I I want to tell you just real quick
Uh, I am praying for your upfall like going going up dude. I want to see you win
I think a lot of us do it's it's hilarious
But honestly like no one wants to see someone beat down forever. I want to see you do well
And also you're uh, you're well, you're always welcome to come back. I know you're a busy man, but it's been fucking hilarious
Yeah, for sure. I appreciate it. Appreciate you guys having me on I think
I think the important thing is I think out of everything i've gone through
Over the last seven or eight months. I think people will see at the end
I got what I needed out of it and I become a better person and
I think people are going to see a new version of me
It's going to be a version of me that you actually can't cheer for
Uh, not one that's you know, mad and yelling at everybody all the time
So for you guys to have me on uh, you guys have a great night. I appreciate it
And we'll uh, you know, who knows uh, maybe me versus Richard Hart. We'll see what's gonna happen
Hopefully peace, man. And also charles dude same to you. Like thank you for coming through. This has been hell
Charles i'm just gonna ask you what what's got you most excited just generally like what's making you a happy man these days
Well, I you know, I I have six companies and so the crypto side is always fun and exciting
But I also do work in regenerative medicine and anti-aging. You know, I I do work in synthetic biology
What's the what's the guy's name? Is it brian?
Do you know who i'm talking about? Oh, yeah, you're talking about brian johnson. Yeah, he's a friend of mine
He did uh was a brain tree and uh, and he runs a company now colonel, but he's he's famous for being like captain immortal
He's trying to make himself younger and younger with uh project blueprint
And I I call him from time to time and he's a little wonky
But he's a really smart guy and really really devoted to anti-aging
But what we do is we do hyperbarics combined with adipose derived stem cells and we think we're probably going to be
Able to do a clinical trial this year a phase one fda
Clinical trial and our hope is to reverse aging by about five to ten years using
The right combination of those two techniques
So i'm real excited about that because I don't have any other products in the portfolio that actually you have a test subject here
By the way with k money. I think
Infinite market it's an infinite market, but I also do glow in the dark plants, you know
So I got a real cool product line that we're probably going to announce towards we end of the year
Uh charles, how do you how do you get around the telomere problem for anti-aging?
Well, hyperbarics actually increase telomere length, but telomeres aren't necessarily the the principal metabolic cause of aging
There's also a mitochondrial communication. There's uh, there's a whole house of of stuff people talk about with emtor
There's epigenetic causes of aging. That's sing claire's lab over at harvard
If you go to the huskinson health website
Um, we actually have like the 12 hallmarks of aging on our website
We have this nice little animation that shows the different things, but it's a very complicated metabolic problem
And really the approach that i'm taking is saying do we have anything in nature?
That seems to put the body into a regenerative state because then you don't have to have a mechanistic understanding of metabolism
Instead you're just taking advantage of the fact that there exists something in nature that actually makes people younger
It turns out that high pressure high oxygen exposure
Actually does that so hyperbarics have been demonstrated repeatedly to increase telomere length and improve cellular metabolism
But then if you combine it with other modalities
Like for example, if you combine it with stem cells
It actually programs the stem cells to regenerate the body
And if you you can potentially even combine it with photobiomodulation, which has a huge effect on mitochondria and atp production
So there's uh, there's a lot there and it's it's something we're super interested in and I have a clinic actually in jalet
We already have 6 200 patients in the in the clinic
And so we have a very large pool of people to draw from for clinical trials and we'll get through the fda process
It'll take about three to five years
But you know, it's i'm still relatively young and we're learning an enormous amount year by year and the clinic continues to grow
It's 10 000 square feet. It'll be 40 000 by the end of the year and
The synthetic biology side is really cool because you actually get to create new life
You know, like we're genetically engineering plants to glow in the dark and we now actually have in the lab plants that are glowing
Uh, so that's just so cool
It's like close 24 hours a day seven days a week nice beautiful green glow glow
And you can glow other colors too like blue and red yellow and purple
Uh, so that'll be super cool because you can also make them sequester carbon and i'd love to tokenize that
And then uh, you know still got the bison got 600 of them running around trying to kill me up in
600 600 yeah, I got I got 11 000 acres man. And so you know them all by name
No, they're they're fighting. They're not fucking pets, man
They're wild animals, you know, you'd get gourd if you try to go and touch it
Can I ask when the when those plants release?
Heavily interested in that. Yeah, everybody is actually I was snoop dog is one of the people we work with because of uh,
Clay nation and his son champ is just awesome
And we were talking actually about could we do a license deal where they do glow in the dark pot?
And what's so cool is that because that's the craziest shit i've ever heard
Well, here's the thing. This is why you want to do it from a grower's perspective
You could actually link luciferase
Which is the enzyme responsible for making a glow with the thc content?
And you can change the spectrum based upon the density of thc that's in the plant
So you can go from green like light thc to dark red whereas heavy thc
So just by looking at the glow of the plant you can tell the thc content. How about that from a grow management?
So there's some cool shit you can do with glow in the dark pot
And it's like I like money and and that's the kind of stuff that just just fucking prints it. Um, yeah
But anyway, so those are some projects on the crypto side, you know
There's a huge governance lift in cardano and it's just gargantuan amount of work
We got sip 1694 we're getting out which is the on-chain governance system
But the midnight is probably my favorite crypto project because it's it's like the ultimate
End goal of cryptocurrencies blockchains can't keep secrets
And what we've done is we figured out not only how to do that
But make it programmable and open it up so that it can be sold to everybody inside the cryptocurrency space
So you have cross-chain hybrid applications so they can be like midnight ethereum midnight cardano midnight polka dot
So it's just a unification play and that basically creates a service layer for privacy
Uh computational privacy, which is so necessary for pretty much every real world use case and mass world adoption
Problem is it's super fucking hard to build that there's so many moving pieces to it
It's just uh, it's just out of this world the level of difficulty engaging with it
Uh, so we spent six years, you know kind of working on it
Now we finally got to a point where this week the the devnet's coming out
Publicly and the incentivized test that will probably be out this year
So i'm real happy that we finally got that one into production and it's just amazing hybridization. It's like half rust half Haskell
It's cardano had sex with parity substrate and pulled all this privacy technology inside of it
So that's uh, that's going to be a leviathan, you know when it comes out because it's so useful
You have like these amazing little clippets. Well, I I don't
I don't really know how to interpret what you just said
Man, this has been remarkably fun
Yeah, thank you so much. What you normally do on sunday nights
Well, I I was just actually about to take a call because I i'm getting ready for the helicopter expo over in Anaheim
I I own a blackhawk helicopter and are you joking? I do
No, no, it's demilitarized
I mean still has the uh troop transport in the back
But it's the fastest blackhawk in the united states because it was a alpha model that I upgraded to lema engine
And i'm having it on exhibition, um this weekend at the hello heli expo
But you're the coolest person i've ever met. That's actually crazy
Well, I charter it out to other air forces and they pay me money because my pilots train their pilots
And that's and so I actually make a profit on it
But the reason I bought it is I needed something to transport between my farm and my ranch, but then also, uh, you know
There's a ton of wildfires up in uh, wyoming
Because my ranch is based next to medicine bow national forest or like a million acres of forest land there
So I needed something that could fight wildfires. And so when you look at the the service stuff, you're like, okay
what helicopter can actually go across state lines and uh transport lots of people but then also be used for utilitarian purposes like fires
And it's like the blackhawk helicopter is the best helicopter in the world for it
Plus it has a 40 year service record and you know, it's designed to be shot down and all this other stuff
So it's a really cool thing
So then I got a nice arrow
Let's put garman 3000 avionics in it and we'll upgrade it to a lema model and all this other stuff
So it's like the fucking lamborghini of helicopters
It's got crazy amount of torque and it's super fast and but I left the back just like the military had it
So it's still rigged up for door gunning and you know all that other stuff
So it's just it's just metal if you want to see it. It's actually in the video
I actually know charles straight up. I I have like a a long-standing dream where I want to learn how to fly helicopters
How would how would you this is honest the genuine question?
How do I get into doing this?
Like I really want to learn how to fly helicopters
Well, I mean there's a world of difference between a blackhawk and like a robinson
Um, so just go to your local like small airport and almost all of them have like training programs for those
Small robinson helicopters and then those are really cheap to learn how to fly blackhawk. You have to start usually
pre-certified for another
Platform that's simpler and then you do this, of course
After you get to a certain amount of flight time
Then you can fly to blackhawk and there are a few civilian blackhocks floating around but most of the time
The easiest way of doing it is to be a warrant officer in the armed service
You're still young enough and you're really interested. The air national guard
Is one real good way of of doing it coast guard actually is another good way of doing it. I'll be honest
I i'm in i'm in law school. I don't think i'm going to go into the military but but
Because then you can fly charles around
I got some great pilots guys
They they were in the army for a long time and they uh, they started special forces and they went over
Became they got tired of being shot at so they went became warrant officers and learned how to fly the black hawks and
They're just super calm cool guys
They they love black hawks more than I think they love their wives. They're pretty good guys
But uh, but you know, anyway, uh, if you want to see the helicopter
It's actually in a music video that I did with um snoop dog sun
Um, so if you go to if you go to youtube and you google, um, you enter in brawn and brawny
Are you just running side quests
Well, it this was part of the deal we did with clay nation when they came to cardano
You know, it's nice when you have an ecosystem and you actually care about your ecosystem
There's like tons of opportunities to do super cool stuff and also help people out that are building in your ecosystem
It's kind of funny all the nft people. Well cardano doesn't do anything for nst
Like I literally was in a music video with snoop dog and his son for an nft project on cardano
I mean that's commitment guys
We even did an x space with snoop dog and I was the jackass when they asked me
What music I listened to I was like johnny cash and fucking warren g was there and all these other guys like oh, man
I don't know if that was the best thing to say
If you go to youtube you can still see the music video and about halfway through it
It has my jet and it has the uh, it has the black hawk landing at the ranch
I I'm like actually a little bit speechless because it's just
That's a remarkable resume of of I mean, it's no better way to put it just side quests
Well, did you guys knew when I went like hunting for aliens in papua new guinea you saw that one
No, but we we found something from a different solar system. It's the first thing ever recovered. We did
Yeah, I wrote a paper with a bunch of guys at at harvard. The the way I tweeted the paper the other day
It was a long time since i've written an actual academic paper myself
But if you look at it, um, we basically found
Spheroles, uh that are very high probability from a different solar system because of their content of beryllium, lanthanum and uranium
You need to be on a jere organ podcast as soon as possible. This is the type of content he craves
I was gonna say dozakis commercial
Charles is living in a video
Actually, have you been approached by the rogan team? I feel like you'd enjoy it
Well, I kept saying rogan after gogging, you know
I talked to lex freetman because I was on his podcast and I and lex and rogan are really good friends
Um, it just we've never been able to get the scheduling quite right
But you know, I I do all the psychedelics work. We got the clinic. We do the anti-aging
I got the glow in the dark plants
I mean, I I guess after we have the glow in the dark pot that that is the threshold
Upon which there has to be some rogan action. So we'll yeah, I think I think he would definitely turn out the lights
And let that thing roll. That's crazy, man
That's crazy. By the way glow in the dark weed is a
Billion dollar idea like honestly like dude imagine like weed is legal in a lot of places now
So you just pull up to the club and you've got your like sketchers weed
Or you fucking like smack the bag and it does a little sparkle
That's that's some product
I'm telling you man. That is the way to go and that's just a side quest
And and could you imagine supply chain system on cardano with that rolling and how much uh, you know transaction volume that would bring
Just sad dude. That's you know
There are there are some blockchains out here that are like, how can we get jp?
Morgan to run all of their financial transactions on our blockchain. You've got charles over here
He's like, how can we how can we tokenize glow in the dark weed and put it on our blockchain?
Listen if you can get the cartel on your chain, you got a real
You know cardano is a chain of the people, you know, it's gonna it's gonna go to new heights. It's very high
That was a nice play on words. I mean it's approachable blockchain founder, which I respect no
That's and actually that's what I was getting at. It's like it's a certain level of authenticity. It's fun
It's it's fun to be around and
What what a world we live in today. Wait, oh shit charles. You're the cardano guy. Yes, he made cardano
I thought he was just a cold plunge guy dude. My bad, bro. I love your cold your cold plunge videos though
Well, I thank you they're they're relatively uh new but i'm building up to a goal
So the first goal was to get into a lake for three minutes the next goal is to swim an ice mile
So there's the outdoor swimming society and these bat shit crazy guys
Go to like glacial fields and they swim for a whole mile in ice water
So that takes like 30 35 minutes of cold exposure. So I have to go like a 10x over my record
It's uh, i've spent about four minutes and three seconds under the cold plunge so far
I've seen some ridiculous videos where people do the uh, like pencil pencil dives into little cutouts in the ice and there's currents
Like there are there are hidden currents underneath. Yeah. Well, that's why I had the rope you guys noticed in the video
I had the uh, the rope there plus I had two guys with me and that was a static lake. We'd already tested it
Okay, well some people are smart that's brilliant
Man, I I wish the absolute best for you
This is this has been tremendously fun
Um, what are you what are you gonna do for this week? Anything cool on the docket?
Well besides the anahym and the uh, the f denver. I mean that's that's a lot
And you know, there's there's a million other things but unfortunately some of those are uh, proprietary at the moment
You know, I I love always telling everybody everything i'm working on
But unfortunately that being a business guy at the vast majority of stuff now, you have to kind of keep secret say stay tuned
Like I can't even talk about the de-extincted animals man, you know, like there's another venture that I work with
Yeah, go to colossal google colossal woolly mammoth we're bringing back the woolly mammoth
You know, so uh, so there there might be some announcements this year you never know
You know, it's pretty cool stuff that we're working on
So, you know, that's another side quest the de-extinction of animals and so there's some cool stuff this week about that
But uh, you know look for it the second half of the year
Can I genuinely ask? Oh, i'm sorry. Go ahead. No, no go for it. I mean in charles
I won't hold you too long
I'll just like one or two more questions and i'll let you enjoy some sleep for the night
I was just going to genuinely ask like how do you
Like, how do you manage each day with all of these things going on at once?
So you need a really good personal knowledge management system
So I use obsidian and then you need a good calendar and task management system. So there's like motion and reclaim ai
Amazing marvin is another example. Some people use asana
But if you combine a good personal knowledge management combined with a really good task and calendar management
Then what you need is a good knowledge management system that sits on top of that
So a big fan of nick milos work linking your thinking
You know, he's got this amazing vault called the ideaverse
And so then you know if you you format all your stuff
And you put it in the right structure that it's really easy to work with a collaborative team
And so usually what you end up being as a ceo is the master of the stub
So you kind of start with the commander's intent and you outline all the things you want to accomplish the goals
And then you you delegate that to another accountable party and it just have to be very ruthless about how you
Track the racy. So you say okay, you're the accountable party. You're responsible. I'm going to be consulted or
Informed and then you create a nice feedback loop and use closed circuit communication and say, okay
What was the thing I gave you?
And then how often am I going to check in and if you put all that together you get a good dashboard and then everything is
You know, you can know your horizon. So is this something horizonally today this week, you know this month this quarter
This year and generally speaking for like 85 95 of tasks that have to get done
That's there now in terms of learning
There's a few different really good things like i'm a big fan of benjamin keep stuff and there's a guy named justin sung
Not justin sung sung s ung who's a doctor who's an expert in learning
And they have a lot of great content on learning how to learn
And there's also some great books like make it stick or other things that you could review
And they talk a lot about the cognitive neural science of effective learning. So things like retrieval practice interleaving
Free recall deliberate practice that type of stuff which helps you especially if you have a good knowledge management system be able to recall things
Because you you have to be able while you you encode information
To encode it in a way where you have enough cues in it that you can remember
Or your system has to remember for you
So that's another area that i've been putting a lot of time and effort into because things are just getting way too complicated
Then there's zoltz he has this visual thinking workshop that he does and there he actually has this concept of a book on a page
So i'm a big believer for anything that you do and any knowledge that you generate or task
You should be able to draw a picture and that picture even if it's crude gives you a much better interlocking understanding of that concept
Then the other thing that we've been doing a lot of work on lately is prompt engineering and you know
How do we pull different ai layers into it?
So especially when you have a concept of generating a long-term cognitive agent
So just like you're delegating to a person and making that person the a and the racie
You also can delegate work to actually an ai agent, you know, almost like a lang chain
Auto gpt enabled application or something like that
And then that agent gives you the ability to go and research something for a while like for example when we're doing like a
A swat analysis or you know, we're looking at a pestle analysis of a jurisdiction or something like that
So that's how you get it done
Is that you just have to have a really good organization system a good task system a good way of representing knowledge a good way of thinking
Around your stuff a good no-making system that has linked knowledge
And then you have to have a really good understanding of dashboards accountability communication and delegation
And then you can scale that to any level so you can go from 50 people to 500 people to 5 000 people
Because I have ceos at every one of those companies and each one of them has
A quarterly understanding of what the goals are and these types of things and we kind of just always focus and align on the commander's
It took me about five years to get pretty good and comfortable of learning how to do all that
And I think I still have another year or two to kind of master it and and at some point
I'll write a book, you know and tell people this is the way to do it
Yeah, thank you that was a lot I'm gonna a lot of knowledge i'm probably gonna have to go back and take notes on that
Also charles if you don't mind, I think boo had a question. I want to let like I respect boo boo if you got a question
Thank you, eddie. I appreciate that so much charles
This is the first time I get to hear you in a space and honestly, I never really heard about the founder of cardano
But after hearing you i'm fucking so bullish on cardano
I'm gonna have to buy some right now because i've seen weed go to a trillion dollar fucking market cap
I've seen skateboarding get people locked in prison then become an olympic gold medal sport
Then we're literally like out there in japan doing it and now ufos are literally a thing that are real and you're telling me
That you have a blackhawk helicopter and you're managing six ceos. Where can I sign up? Where can I buy cardano now?
How can I support you because I am so fucking bullish on everything you just said right now
Thank you eddie for getting him up on the spaces right now
I don't normally request up unless I actually have something to say and man i'm fucking bullish like for real
Man, you guys had some great things to thank you. Thank you charles so much, man
I hope a lot of us one day can even become a ceo let alone control or you know
Six of them. Thank you so much. All it takes is, you know, like a 200 payment to delaware, you know
No, but charles you could
mean all my companies are incorporated in wyoming although I I do have some in asia and
Yeah, that and 700 employees and you know a nine-figure budget, you know, so just some technicalities
I think I think that's probably a good place to call this one charles. It's been it's been a legendary
Legendary time to chat with you. You are I mean, I know you're a busy man. You're always welcome on these stages
We run these puppies every sunday night, um 8 30 p.m
But you know eastern time not a not whatever. I don't even know what time colorado is in like the only time that exists is est charles
I I used to live in new york. I was in jamaica queens, man
Yeah, I was used to yeah, I was right next to the e-line, you know van wix station
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so so I used to work est but no it's mountain standard so it's two hours between est and mst
Yeah, i'm a jersey guy. I live right on the uh live right by new york
Um, but on the jersey side, so yeah, if you're a jersey guy, what exit?
Um, I well, I moved around but it was exit 172 most recently
Okay, he's really a jersey guy. They always know their exit
Although I will say, uh, what is it taylor ham fucks pork rolls fact?
Nava charles you're always welcome back and and dude this has been fun
I guess uh, I think we'll wrap here
Guys, have you enjoyed the space? You know the deal you could drop a follow. Um, if you you know, if you want
We run this puppy every sunday
For english and I that was crazy. Can we just like take a moment?
Was that not actually insane?
Yeah, that was a pretty cool thing I just sat there and just kind of listened usually I talked but that was pretty incredible
I did not know a lot about the stuff. He was talking about it's insane great space, man
When he called out bib boy in a tweet yesterday and he said hey congrats on winning the fight
It was almost like you know, it seemed like hey, we're welcoming back
We hope the best for you forget all about all the nonsense that happened, you know, let's move forward
It was kind of that moment. I don't know if you felt that but i'm i'm a fan
I want people to win doesn't matter like stuff happens and I know people get involved in his personal life
And you know, it's his life. He can do whatever he wants. It's not our good job to judge that, you know
I I want best for everybody
I i'll be honest with you man. I'm kind of like at a loss for words. Uh english. Are you still there?
Is he not I think he did english falls. Hold on did english fall asleep
He often falls asleep to be honest. Did he fall asleep while charles?
Bro, that was a lot of information. He was probably taking notes. That's the biggest mistake of his life
How can you do that miss the miss the alpha
Yeah, yo one thing um, first of all, I appreciate I appreciate you having me up here eddie
Goodie brought me up here. I'm actually I was gonna say by the way
I was gonna say shout out if you were wondering like how this was how this happened. It was goodie
Goodie was the one that put this together
Yeah, dude, I um, I have so many questions for charles
But I didn't even want to get in between you guys because this is one of my first time being a part of a space and
I'm honestly not really too acknowledged in the crypto space man. I'm kind of just an investor big bullish on cardano
That's why i'm in here. I love charles and I love everything he's doing
But yeah, it's just interesting man hearing everything he says and hearing you guys chat about it like goodie again, man
Like I want to be a part of this world more and more and i'm glad i met goodie out here in l.a
Because he's the one that's like telling me like this is there's a whole new world
Or a whole other world of crypto that I have no idea about and I need to learn man
Because this shit is the future and it's it's fascinating hearing all these people talk about it, bro
It's like it excites me bro, like so much and again, man. I appreciate you having me up here
No, absolutely. Welcome. Welcome to the space
For sure. These bull runs are for it brings new people in I will say you will have to um
You will have to be ready because there will eventually not be a bull run and that will be a brutal time. But um for now
Man, like it's a weird. It's a weird day. It's weird. That is not one of my normal spaces
So apologies if I if I feel off cadence, but this is this one's a fun one
I was gonna say bring something up to him, but it's too too it gets uncomfortably close
You asked about the the telomeres like
That was that was on point that it was it was but it's just funny like it's
Such a classic scody question. Yeah. What about the telomeres on the ends of the chromosomes? What's what's with that problem?
Dude, I know a guy who's a postdoc
At sing clear lab doing work on alzheimer's and I was gonna bring that up. But then i'm like nah, that's that's getting too
That's getting too close to uh to ground zero. Hey now that he's not in here
Do you guys mind me asking like eddie? I guess i'm gonna ask you what why is cardano not one of those favorites?
uh, well, one of the reasons is alex like
Genuinely one of the reasons is alex becker said that people who hold cardano are cucks
Of course, yeah, and he said it enough times that it actually stuck like everyone just believes it. Wow. Yeah
He just needs a social media manager, dude
Charles literally the most interesting man alive like get some blackball content. Wow. You're right
Well, i'm i'm actually i'm being dead serious
By the way, like the numbers of times the number of times that becker said that cardano holders or cucks
Actually made it a reality like that's not a joke about it like that. Wow
But I will tell you charles is different when people are busy and they have other things going on like nine companies
They're not just like full d gen
Kind of people they're interesting
So I think that you're going to find that in a lot of places i've been going deep in cardano
I don't think alex is 100 wrong, but I think charles is extremely interesting. So
Dude, thank you for having them on. That was awesome. Holy shit. Wob
You've got the law wrong. That's the only reason why i'm coming up here
What's up, yeah alex becker is not the reason why the downfall of
Why people sorry it's fucking for them. Why cardano is like disrespected and people don't want to use it
It didn't have working smart contracts till recently
And the chain can barely handle like more than 10 transactions per second. Although it has utx. So so you can have like
Bulk transactions and blah blah blah, whatever, you know, but it's still going to do 10 tps. I believe it was or it's nine
cardano is hated so much is because
crypto twitter absolutely despises um charles mainly because
2017 he made lots of promises about how aid is going to be the next big thing and then it never
arrived for many many years and
Um still barely has and and then the whole academic research thing, which is a bit of a meme, right?
You know, it's like a circle joke about peer reviewing when
Um, some of the bad tech isn't like peer reviewed. So yeah
It's pretty funny. They have this weird peer-reviewed stable coin
Sorry cham go for it shaman
I was gonna say they have this weird like peer reviewed stable coin, which is basically based on terra luna
but they have this like bullshit like
Oh, yeah, this is a scientific paper talking about the stability mechanism for it. I also think that um
It's just like overall they publish it all as though it's science when no one really knows anything about
Smart contracts to make it like concrete science exactly what wab is saying. I think it's just a bit of a grift
I think no, I think there's definitely like there's purity in the systems that they have but also like
I think tech tech moves at a fast pace of you as you seem like salana and stuff and those things can just outright win
Um, also it doesn't have like stable coins or anything
So it's like first you can't you can only park your money in ada most people aren't going to do that. Um,
It's pretty much just like
Chain for like normies their marketing is on point though because like every every normie knows what cardano is
Well, it's because you you said once and it was pretty apt. It's like it's got a built-in referral system in a sense
Yes, it's an mmm. I'm joking
But they have like the stake pools and stuff, right which is like really easy to set up and
Anyone can kind of run one and so you get all the youtuber youtubers and influencers who don't fuck all about crypto
Putting their rough link in their youtube comments in the bull market pulling in a couple hundred k views
You convert some of those you make a fat bag and then you've on boarded the masses
Okay. The other thing is about cardano if you've ever talked to a smart contractor developer
It's built in haskell and haskell is incredibly hard to code it
Like there's only hundreds of developers of quality developers in the world that can build in haskell like
You're not talking about like a hundred thousand salinity developers
So trying to get anybody to build on that shit is just you have to be so big brain that it's incredibly difficult
You don't get any script kiddies as well. That's weird
He had a pretty bad reputation because he was part of the ethereum team really early and then had a sort of bad reputation for
Doing a bit of like grifty grifty type things
In fairness, he does have 600 bison
What is he doing with those dude
Yeah, why do you need why do you need that many
Bison back to stablecoin needed he's got some interesting things going on
It's like he's doing blockchain, but if the world ends he has 600 bison to like trade meat and shit like he's got everything
Man, I ran into a fucking bison with a brand new ford explorer in xion national park
Then the fucking rangers came out like 15 minutes after I hit it and shot it
and then some fucking dude came over and asked if he could have the meat and i'm just in the middle of this park like
Yeah, eat the fucking meat, man
So one thing oh man one thing I think about too like after hearing this guy talk charles hoskinson he is so
Intelligent and everywhere and it's like how do you not how does cardano not succeed essentially if he's the one
Running it and it's that's that's the question and that's why
You're falling for the thing where someone just overloads you with tech jargon
And then you feel really really bullish walking away from the conversation not to say that he isn't extremely intelligent and his knowledge
Goes way beyond 99.9 percent of the people in this space is if not pretty much every single person in this space
But that doesn't necessarily mean the things that you're saying are optimal correct compared to other blockchains and what their tech is
And so you gotta not take it with a pinch of salt, but just don't get too caught up in the
In the words that are being used. I will say it also it also
I got caught up. Eddie. I'm sorry. It does. I will say it actually does make it like
No, no, no, you're fine. I will say it actually it actually makes it difficult
To to engage with right because there's a lot of technical jargon that that I don't know
Um, i'm not saying i'm like brilliant or whatever, but it means that I can't I can't be like, I don't know if that's true
Right, like because because I there's no chance that I know right like nothing. I was bullish on the plants, dude
That made sense and that's something I could understand. Yeah
This is the scene from goodwill hunting where matt damon's character
Is arguing about a math problem with the other math professor?
And he goes there's only like five people on the planet that can even follow this argument
When you get deep enough into the tech end, you just lose your audience and everyone just sort of is like well
He sounds confident. So i'm gonna i'm gonna give my money to that guy, but you don't have the ability
Well to actually sift out who's who's telling the truth, you know who I um, honestly watch on a daily basis is crypto crow
And he's the one that kind of completely sold me with cardano, bro
And I have a significant bag and I think it's mainly because crow, bro
Yeah, I I will say that that is that is exactly what wab was saying
Who's crow is that just like a youtuber that he's one of he's he's one of the youtubers and he actually won on the on
The card earlier, uh on the on the karate combat card. He was also fighting
Youtubers that like I should know what they're talking about or is it one of the like, oh this crypto is gonna go 100x
I don't know who to do this. I I I don't know him too. Well, but I think it's the latter
He's super intelligent, bro. Like this guy knows exactly he's not a shiller
He's all in on cardano essentially, too
And he doesn't even talk about shilling coins and shit. He just loves learning and updating the news about cardano to his followers
Yeah, i'll i'll verify and uh
He's a good dude man trust
I'm just curious. Why would you enjoy the space?
Uh, I think it was it was cool. It's what what fucking yeah simulation moment you got
And then just random nft people off the page. Yeah
Weird weird spaces, but I mean congrats on the on the on the viewership
Uh, that's that doesn't I don't care. I just I care if i'm laughing and I yeah, come on
Not really dude. Honestly, it's like it's just it's fun. It's funny. It's funny
700 concurrent listeners one of the biggest spaces tonight
You owe yourself a few like chest bumps, you know, like
Is it that take that fist and just fucking people get people get so worked about?
Listeners in spaces. It really doesn't matter
Just like it's funny dope conversation though
Like I don't think a lot of people have been able to see or hear something like that and I don't know how long like
Long time do it. Yeah, all like all I find fun in is making like weird weird interactions happen
Like those weird special that was fun. Like when I
I'll be honest when I looked in the in the requests and I saw I saw iohhh charles. I was like no, there's no chance
Like no chance that's actually charles pressed it and it said a million files like that's charles. That's
You're a great host dude for all
Naveen, why did you leave?
We I asked charles about about the etf and you weren't there
I have no interest in listening to charles
He's a funny guy to listen to if anything
Yo, what are the odds you guys bring vitalik in one of these
Low but you know never zero
All joking aside. I mean look obviously charles has built a lot of really great stuff. I just um
You know a lot of difference of opinions and that's cool
What's your thought on glow in the dark plants? Yeah, what did you miss that? He's making glow in the dark weed by the way
You know there was actually a yc co in my batch that was doing that
Um, and I wonder what happened to them
But that was like a thing that was the thing
Yeah, the ceo was like going really far along and he ended up like getting this depression and killing himself
Yeah, he was like there was a bunch of people doing genetic manipulation at the time and uh, there's there's a documentary out there
One guy ended up like juicing up all of these pit bulls and he shot the genetic manipulation into his arm
Yeah, the guy's the guy's name was uh, his name was anthony
Anthony evans there was a kickstarter campaign. He was in my yc batch. He was awesome
So one of the guys got arrested and the other one who was doing the uh, the glow in the dark weed. Um, yeah
Well, I don't know about growing the dark weed, but anthony evans was
You can google him. He was doing
Uh glow in the dark plants and as I said, I mean, I don't i've not followed up or caught up with him recently
But he was fucking awesome. He was a great founder. I've not followed up. I don't know what what happened
So I don't know if it's the same company. Um, but yeah, that was that was the glow in the dark plant thing that I was aware of
I think i'll just wrap it here
That's this has been a weird night dude weird night fun though
Anyway, you guys know the deal. Uh, thank you all for coming on stage. It's been really fun each and every one of you and uh
Thank you guys for listening. If you guys enjoyed it, you know the deal. You can just drop a follow on myself
I run these every sunday, um at 8 30 p.m. Eastern
The best time zone and the tda run space is tuesday through saturday's
From from roughly 11 a.m. Eastern to uh, roughly 2 p.m. Eastern
They're good spaces good people chief and expresso some of the best and most legendary spaces. So it's my opinion
All right, you guys enjoy your night, you know the deal be safe. Um, oh and the last thing
Especially if you guys are seals holders because we'll put out a tweet about this and it's 100 true
Uh, they're coming for your seals guys. So that means if you guys don't have adequate wallet security, just do it
Like set up a delegate wallet set up set up. What do you need to to make sure that as we get into a more and more
More and more exciting crypto world. You're not losing shit to random stuff
It's going to wipe a lot of people out especially especially by the way on blast
Uh, there was a pretty big rug that happened this week on blast guys
Don't just like throw your shit. Just don't don't throw your money at everything that comes out on blast
It's gonna be a it's coming out. I believe this week
I don't know if that's public or not, but it is like it's coming out within a week
Just so you guys know there will be plenty of scams that launch and lots of money there to be playing with them
So they will succeed just make sure that you're not one of the people that's hurt
Cool. All right. Thanks guys. Enjoy your night. And if you liked it share it to a friend. Peace homies