Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
Between 2 Degens w/ @BobBodily powered by @SeizeCTRL
Recorded: March 21, 2025 Duration: 1:19:33Space Recording
Short Summary
Odin Fund is set to launch as a groundbreaking Bitcoin DEX, aiming to enhance trading experiences and yield opportunities for users. With rapid growth and strategic partnerships, the platform is positioned to lead in the Bitcoin ecosystem, integrating liquidity from various chains and offering unique rewards for liquidity providers.
Full Transcription
Yn ystod y cyfle hwn, mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn.
Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. Mae'r cyfle hwn yn ystod y cyfle hwn. I'm sorry. Won't be getting better, forget Might as well be already done
For what it's worth, I've said my chasing freedom and glory for my mind
I'm not crazy baby, I will commute the sentence of Ross Obritt. I'm gonna be singing this song for you. Might as well be already dead For what it's worth I've set my thrills
A dollar bill would burn for me I'm a stranger an end to me for my love
I'm not crazy baby, I'm just no more than we've been
Bitcoin is really the money of the future?
Bitcoin.
Bitcoin.
Bitcoin.
Bitcoin.
Bitcoin.
Bitcoin.
Bitcoin.
Bitcoin.
Bitcoin.
Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Yo! Yo, yeah, Bob, how are we doing today?
GM GM GM that's you are now dialed into the after alpha where you know, it's about Wow.
How was that?
That was a recording of a super old podcast
After that play so but after tripping you out Bob. How you feeling?
Yeah, GM GM GM
Am I allowed to talk now?
We'll see what the what the
The Twitter space has next for us for the play, but no you're good. Let me fix them this audio and yeah
Let's get let's get ripping.
Cool.
Love it.
All right.
We are now dialed, but we also have Hath with us.
He was super hyped to jump on cause today's going to be largely about, you
know, building on Bitcoin and kind of really getting a lot deeper into what
ICP has done and how Bob's been exploring it and kind of really getting a lot deeper into what icp has done
And how bob's been exploring it and kind of bring in fungibles to bitcoin. We have a lot of people doing some
Some really fun stuff and you guys been doing some really crazy numbers and it's been really cool to see
but I guess just to get started as the room fills up and stuff like
how has been the
the kind of process of releasing Odin fun and for those that don't
know maybe just a quick TLDR on it and then we can get deeper into kind of more technical
and kind of nuanced stuff.
Yeah I would say Odin fun is the world's greatest Bitcoin decks and you know it And it's taken a couple of weeks to kind of settle into this intro for Odin Fund.
But I think this is the vision.
I think everybody deserves to hold Bitcoin, maintain Bitcoin upside while they trade,
and trade in and out of tokens that are all backed by Bitcoin.
And I think we should bring in cross-chain liquidity.
People on Solana wanna trade on Bitcoin
and people on Ethereum wanna trade on Bitcoin.
And it's been really hard to do for a long time
because of technical reasons,
but we've kind of perfected the user experience on Odinfun
and we are building the world's greatest Bitcoin decks.
You come in with a Bitcoin wallet,
you deposit Bitcoin, you trade.
If you want to provide liquidity, it's always Bitcoin with another token. You earn BTC directly
as rewards for being a liquidity provider. And then you can stack Sats just by sharing
the platform with your friends. So this is Oden Fun.
Whoa. The greatest Bitcoin. No, it really is kind of the speed of it and the clever stack
of using ICP that will dive in deeper. But you mentioned one thing I haven't provided
LP on it. But for people that provide LP, they're earning not like typically what you'd
earn the pair. It's just BTC. You don't earn token in the corresponding pair. Did I hear that right?
So there are a couple of ways that you can do
liquidity pools.
And in our case, the fee is always paid in Bitcoin.
And so when you swap,
liquidity providers earn 0.3% of every trade.
And that is Bitcoin that directly goes back into the pool.
And so you don't have like a separate rewards account that you can claim.
It's just directly added back into the pool.
And then when you claim your go in and burn your LP tokens and you withdraw your
liquidity, you will get extra BTC.
Interesting. That's cool. What other like, I guess,
what I find interesting is like, uh, you've been building for quite some time, but from my knowledge of, of your past, would
you say this is like the most successful and most traction you've gotten on an app?
Uh, yeah. So I've been building apps and companies and products for the last 10 years,
probably it's probably been a full decade and Odin fun is by
far the most successful. Yep.
That's awesome.
The reason I ask is like how has been that, that, that like growth,
like, um, feeling and just like, how, how are you dealing with it?
Cause it seems like the, the attention was like slow and then all at once.
And, um, I don't know.
I just find it curious, like interesting.
Um, like what it's been like for you and like, and the team.
Yeah.
I, I don't think I've even had a moment to celebrate yet.
Uh, because there has I mean we have thousands and
thousands and thousands of people that are in Odin fun every single day
trading and if the experience isn't perfect and absolutely flawless you
better believe I hear about it from every single one of those users. And so it's been, man, it's been a grind the last eight weeks.
Honestly, it's been a grind for longer than eight weeks.
I mean, we've been going since the beginning of November,
basically full steam ahead, nonstop, nights and weekends,
just cranking on this.
And so it's been, I don't know, it's been like a whirlwind
of four, four and a half months. And so it hasn't, I don't know, it's been like a whirlwind of four, four and a half months.
And so it hasn't even really set in yet. I mean, we're, I think that the progress we've made so far is fantastic.
And the adoption we've gotten from the Ordinals community and the Rooms community and the BRC 20 community,
you know, seeing, being able to kind of bridge the Western world and the Eastern world, I think has been absolutely
fantastic. But man, there's so much more work to do. And so it's kind of daunting, the amount of
work that needs to happen in order to kind of level up Odin Fund from even where it is now to
where we want it to be. And that's taking on the pump funds and the radiums and the Jupiters and the hyper liquids of the world.
I think Bitcoin DeFi can do it.
And I think the Bitcoin community deserves it.
And I think people want it.
And so this is the goal.
And, you know, we're not going to stop till we get there.
I love it.
Yeah.
I mean, just don't pull like a full meteora on us.
And like that would be chill.
Maybe let's hop over that.
That, uh, I mean, actually we could, we could abstract, like,
we could extract from some celebrities. Um, I'm into it now, but, um,
one thing like that I've been here or just like the talk about integrating,
um, runes that exist into the platform. Is there any update on that?
I know that's been kind of a bigger question that I've had, but I've been not paying the
closest attention, so forgive me if it's happened, but yeah, just curious about that.
Yeah, it's been basically done for the last month, but we've just had so many scaling
issues to solve.
First we went from one, basically zero users to 10,000 users within like days. And then we went from 10,000 users to 50,000 users. I think we hold on. Let me let me check. We maybe just cracked 60,000. I need to check so that we can yep, we've cracked 60,000. When 69,000. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Probably in a couple of days.
I mean, we've been getting like a thousand new users a day
at least.
Damn.
That's what Facebook number is going, bro.
So just cracked 60,000 users.
We've also, we just hit 2750 BTC in volume.
So we're nearing 3000 BTC in volume,
which in the last what, two months is just absolutely insane.
We're by far the top rune trading platform. You could look at volumes across any other
product on Bitcoin L1, and there's just more volume on OdinFund. And so the growth numbers have been fantastic.
So finally, getting back to your question,
we've also had to scale across developers hitting our API.
I mean, we went from zero developers building
in the OdinFund ecosystem to what seems like 50 or more
developers all coming in and just pounding our API.
And so from a rate limiting perspective
and a scaling up resources perspective,
like it's been a large endeavor
to get everything running smoothly.
And like, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel
where we're almost to the place where,
like from here we could probably 10X again
or 50X again or 100X again, and we would be totally fine.
Like it wouldn't even touch us essentially.
Fingers crossed, knock on wood,
do your own research, not financial advice.
And I think that, you know,
all of this has kind of slowed down some feature development.
You know, users have made it very, very clear to me
that they want us to be moving faster.
They want us to be building more features
and I agree with them but platform stability is kind of top priority and once we've kind of you
know got that all taken care of then yes we can do all of the things that people want like profit
and loss and verified twitter accounts and you know better support in the comment sections and being able to actually edit your socials
for a collection or for a for a token
And so one of these is external runes external runes is it's basically been ready to go for like a month
But it just wasn't quite the time to push it out yet So this is you know, it's it's undergoing all of our kind of final testing and it's something
that we're really excited to push out when it's ready.
Yeah, I feel like that's a massive one because with tokens that have existing communities,
because I mean, it's pretty difficult to, which Odinfun has done is like cultivated
new tokens, aka communities, whatever you want to call them to kind of like get things
to rally around
people to move tokens. But say it's something like pups or dog moves over there. I'd be
super interested to see the number and see people actually utilizing Odin fun for what
it is, not just a token platform, but a place to provide LP, a place to kind of move in
and out of positions. And like you said, it's a DEX where I think right now
from a majority, I don't know, this is kind of a weird thing to say, but it's like mostly like a token launch platform that immediately allows you to trade, obviously, which is amazing.
But once you start bringing some more of these legacy tokens in, they start to see more of the natural DeFi things occurring. Would you say that's about right?
Yeah, I mean, I would argue that the biggest problem that Bitcoin companies have look at
side chains, look at L2s, look at roll ups, look at state chains, look at the Lightning Network,
look at Taproot assets, look at RGB, Look at like anyone building on Bitcoin is going to face this
you know double-sided marketplace problem where you need users and you need liquidity and you need
market makers, you need liquidity providers, you need all of this to come and
you have to solve that problem.
Otherwise, you will build a really fantastic app that nobody is going to use and nobody's going to talk about. And you'll just, I don't know, go off and just
feel really good about your tech and you can talk about your tech on Twitter and tell other
people how their tech isn't as decentralized as yours and you'll never win. That is not
the formula to win. The formula to win is yes, go and do all that and then find a way to get 50,000 users in the first four weeks of launching. Go and find a way to get $200 million of volume. a pump fund based model is because if you can get some initial traction with people
just creating tokens and you can build up liquidity that way, you can start to slowly
start the network effects of, oh, you have some users, those users can bring in more
users and you have some liquidity and that can pump some tokens and you can support some
initial communities.
And from there you can bring in developers and they can start building
tools and like you have to start getting the network effects going so that you
can, uh, just, you know, make, make a successful product.
It's so true.
Like, cause if you really think about it, like incentivizing people to deposit LP
of a circulating token that they already have a position in
is much more difficult than like generating new tokens and new pools off the bat.
So if you really think about it, the pump fun model for bootstrapping these concepts
is kind of ingenious because you kind of get the whole the whole ecosystem off the bat.
Otherwise you have a really,
you have a really big issue of trying to get this liquidity over because Dex is
that exists on, um, you know, uh, Solana,
if they don't have some type of way of launching tokens kind of off the bat,
it's kind of a uphill battle to get, um, users to do it.
So it makes sense how, kind of took off the way it did.
And it solves a lot of problems, to be honest,
like onboarding users, getting bootstrapping the LP
and a lot of things that kind of didn't exist before.
But yeah, I mean, what are like,
cause I mean, a lot of people are using the platform.
Like you mentioned the the ruins are coming.
Legacy ruins are kind of getting brought in.
Is there like, I know this is a tough answer, tough question, but like a rough estimate
and then like, is there anything else you're excited that you guys been working on that's
about to get that's about to get plugged in?
So some of the features that we've been working on just kind of in in tandem with with our scaling and like platform stability work is verified Twitter accounts.
This is a long, long standing feature request from basically all of our users.
And this is coming. I'm already testing it in our staging site right now.
And it works. Everything is
looking really good. So that one's coming. We're also, you know, finally for many of
these creators finally have a way to edit socials. And so, you know, this might seem
like well, why didn't you just do this six weeks ago?
Something as simple as just editing.
But in our case, it was a little bit more complicated
because tokens are created on a decentralized ledger.
And so if you're going to actually make edits to those,
you have to figure out how you're actually
going to position those edits and where
is it going to live along the flow.
Anyway, so that's all done.
I'm testing it right now.
So pretty soon, you'll be able to essentially all Twitter
accounts are going to disappear unless you verify them.
You can go in.
We'll have a process where you can submit
to change one of your socials or something like that.
We can go in and help you do that.
And then you can verify a Twitter account,
and then it'll show up as a verified account in Odin.
So I think this will be great.
We have some just improvements coming on the deposit
and withdrawal side.
We've had some users kind of confused
about where their deposit went or where their withdrawals went.
Like the transactions were all executed correctly, but for some reason, because they like logged in with one wallet
and then changed which wallet they were using in their browser extension, and then it ended up, you know,
with funds going in a place that they didn't expect.
So we have some cleanup things coming there as well.
In terms of like a timeline for external runes, I don't have a date to share.
It could be tomorrow.
It could be a week from tomorrow.
It could be two weeks from tomorrow.
It could be longer.
I'm basically not saying anything here.
I don't want to make a promise because there
are a lot of moving pieces.
And I think we want to do it right so it's coming
We want it to come we want it to come as quickly as we possibly can and we're working on it
All right, so it's coming tomorrow sick
Love to hear it
No, but I guess like I as we like you're working on it
like how do you envision it working because I'm kind of like messing around with it in my head right now.
And it's like going back to the previous statement of like,
when you do it all internally and you bootstrap these things and launch them
when the pump fund model, you know, liquidity is there, but like,
is there an incentive model that you're thinking about of like,
because you do have to have people, you know,
and we'll effectively then be ruins on ICP, correct?
Or will they stay on, I don't know,
if you can give us how you guys are thinking about it.
Yeah, so the way it will work is
you'll obviously go straight to the AMM.
This is because the tokens already exist.
And so in order for an AMM model to work, you need liquidity.
And so what will happen is we will open up a set of tokens.
There's no limit to which tokens we can enable.
In fact, there's a really strong argument
to not gatekeep this process at all
and just let anyone come in with any existing room
anywhere across all time.
Because that would just be the same as like anyone being able to create a pool,
right? With certain parameters.
Yep. Yep, exactly.
And then we'll probably put an initial limit on how much liquidity you need in
that liquidity pool prior to being able to start trading for that.
That's clever. I like that.
And so it's kind of like a pump fun for a pool and then yeah
Get communities to rally around getting their pool launched. Yes. Yes
Initially for some of the you know more stable or more popular or higher market cap runes
We do have liquidity providers that we've been chatting with that can come in and provide some you know more
Substantial, you, pretty reasonable liquidity.
And so that will kind of jumpstart
some of the larger runes communities.
And I think that will be fantastic.
There will also be,
depending on the amount of volume we see in those tokens,
there's a natural like incentivization mechanism
for people to provide liquidity,
because you do earn 0.3% of every trade that goes through those pools.
So the more volume you have, then the more incentive there is for liquidity, because the higher the APR is.
And so, you know, when Odin Dog was getting good volume, APR hovered between 500 and 1000%.
And that's like, you know, pretty decent for a liquidity provider.
And so if we can get good volume on some of these tokens, then, you know,
I think that will just bring in additional liquidity as, as people, uh,
seek to kind of, uh, take advantage of that arbitrage, um, opportunity.
Yeah. And then, I mean, I think meme coins are all good and fun,
but, um, my last question, and then coins are all good and fun, but, um,
my last question, and then we can kind of just, you know, um,
go to everyone else on the stage and things like that. But it's like,
you know,
how deep are you thinking about USDC and Bitcoin? Because I mean,
this is the true, true unlock. Um, meme coins are great. We all love them,
but I feel like they're a great way to battle test and really get tech ready
for, you know, something as serious and how like USDC
and Bitcoin working together in a Bitcoin native way. Um,
and just curious of like how you guys are moving towards that direction,
or is it pretty much like DGN platform for now moving towards that direction or is it pretty much like a degen platform for
now moving towards more like DeFi centric USDC stuff later?
What are the thoughts there?
I would say on the cross chain side, we want to bring liquidity from every chain back to
Bitcoin and that will probably start with Solana and Ethereum and something like USDC or USDT.
And I think, you know, we'll essentially come in, you know, let's, let's do a
partnership with Phantom or with the Solana Foundation or something like that.
Let's have users logging with Phantom deposit, soul swap to BTC, you know,
we'll have a native soul BTC pool.
And then from there, you're just off to the races trading, trading on our Bitcoin
decks. I think you could probably do that in 30 seconds.
Logging in with Phantom to having Bitcoin in Odin Fund,
which is pretty fantastic in terms of user onboarding.
You could imagine the same thing with Ethereum. Log in with Metamask, deposit ETH,
and then in a couple of minutes, you're, you know, swap to Bitcoin and you're ready to go trading.
Same thing with like USDT.
You could imagine logging in with email, swap to Bitcoin and you're ready to go trading. Same thing with like USDT.
You could imagine logging in with email, buying USDC with credit card.
And then, you know, it's probably within 30 seconds or a minute you're in the platform with Bitcoin already, ready to go to trade in the platform.
I mean, I think this, you know, first some cross-chain expansion and then
some, you know, normie expansion.
I think this is the kind of, you know, big stepping stones that we need to take as a platform
in order to bring liquidity in from other places.
Now, yeah, that's, I mean, makes a lot of sense. And what's been exciting about this is like,
You know, it's been really rad. I mean you guys using laser eyes
you know, it's been really rad. I mean, you guys using laser eyes,
off the bat when building and you know house
actually helped a lot in the in the direct integration with with
With Odin fun and through that like we've been learning a lot about ICP and how we can you know
Make the laser eyes integration more
you know a lot more seamless with,
with laser eyes and building Bitcoin apps.
So it's been like a really, really interesting, cool kind of mind opening
experiment because what's crazy about ICP is like they have, they've been
the sleeping kind of giant, like everyone's been building these like new solutions, et cetera, L twos.
And like, as I dig into these like Bitcoin canisters and how, how like robust the
ecosystem is and all the developer tooling, and then you already have the
Ethereum and soon to be Solana integrations.
Like it's quite wild and like we've been paying a lot of attention to it and
Hath and I have been like digging really deep.
But, um, but yeah, I mean, is, what are some things that you can mention about
ICP and Hath if you want to chime in here?
I mean, it's like, uh, it's kind of a massive unlock and the biggest thing
here too is, um, social consensus.
Like, and I've said this in other spaces and stuff like that is like,
I find it really unique and also the timing like perfect because in the beginning of Ordinals
it seemed like people were not okay with anything outside of whatever layer one, even though
Oh, like or it is a 1.5 whatever I don't want to get in. But regardless, people were not
okay with it. They were just like, no, not native.
Then runes, and then I feel like people were so desperate
for liquidity and for runes to do something
that the regard, not guard, what's the right word?
Their acceptance for different technology solutions
went down, which I think is honestly a good thing
because Bitcoin does a few things very well,
but a lot not well.
And there's tech technology to solve some of these things. And yeah,
that comes with trade-offs, et cetera.
But from what I've been seeing with ICP canisters,
it's very Bitcoin native and a very big unlock.
So I don't know if there's some, some stuff there, but uh, I know Hath was,
um, getting super excited about all of this stuff too.
So yeah, I mean,
ICP let's hear it. Like what,
what are some of the things you've been finding working on it?
Yeah. I mean, historically has not had the greatest reputation.
You know, look at the token launch, look at the, look,
look at the market price, look at the market price, look at the token price, look at even
just general community sentiment in the Ethereum ecosystem and the Bitcoin ecosystem.
Most people just write it off as kind of like a zombie chain, I think it was called in a
Forbes article in the last six months. And I think that the difference maker essentially here for me is the ability to build cross-chain applications that feel native.
And this is the important piece where it feels native. You don't need another wallet. You don't need another token.
You don't need to sign transactions every single time
you wanna do something.
You don't need to wait a long time.
Finality is fast.
It's two second finality for every single transaction.
And so when you have speed
and when you can actually pull off chain abstraction,
account abstraction, even like wallet abstraction in a way,
you now get this web to kind of feel that just feels fantastic, you know, come in with your Bitcoin
wallet, sign in, deposit Bitcoin to the platform trade as much as you want. Take your you know,
bonded tokens back to Bitcoin l1, take your Bitcoin back to Bitcoin l1 when you're done. It feels
like almost like a centralized exchange model, except it's built on a decentralized blockchain.
And so are there, you know, are there trade-offs here?
Are there, you know, additional trust assumptions?
100%.
You're never going to leave Bitcoin L1 to go anywhere.
It doesn't matter where you're taking your Bitcoin.
There are additional trust assumptions if you're taking your Bitcoin or your ordinals or your runes off of Bitcoin 01.
And I'm very pragmatic about this fact.
I'll go as deep as anybody wants to go on the tech and the additional trust assumptions
and how we're trying to build this decentralization layer next to Bitcoin.
But I think that if you can pull off all of these abstraction layers,
where users don't pay gas fees, users don't pay network fees,
they can transact quickly in a web two type way.
They don't have to sign the wallet transactions every single time.
I mean, if you can pull off this kind of user experience and it feels native to
Bitcoin, then even though like the, the technical nerd geek, part of my brain is saying, this isn't Bitcoin
because I can list 10 reasons why this isn't a trustless bridge and I can list a million reasons
why it would be better to do XYZ with some other tech stack. But in the end, as long as it's secure
enough, decentralized enough, I think you can build secure decentralized applications that still have a fantastic user experience that solve the problem that users have.
And if you can do that, if you can kind of thread the needle on technical trade-offs and your trust assumptions and your user experience and the solution that you're providing and connected with the problem that users are having and you thread that thread that
needle or, you know, align the stars or whatever.
I think you can build a fantastic application.
Uh, and I think this is, this is what, you know, everyone building on,
on Bitcoin needs to solve.
Uh, and I think, you know, Odin fun is a great example of this.
Yeah.
I mean, it's, it's one of those situations though, where it's like, all funding,
it's all perfect until it's not tight because account abstraction and layer abstraction,
like what the issue has become is like these intermediaries, you know, they are held with
a high accountability, but when it does work and people do have to explore towards this
and like once that standard gets laid, like the unlock is massive. So it's like, it's, it's a weird position for developers and builders to be in
because like there is solutions, but with this like kind of growth, you know,
like we've seen a lot of, you know, it's like, this has been not, this has been a
Bitcoin problem at large for a while with a lot of different instances, you know? Um,
but I feel like from what I've been reading and what I've been seeing with,
with, um, with what ICP has and they're, you know,
the way that they handle, um, um,
Bitcoin canisters and kind of how the UTXO model works there.
And it's, it's it's a pretty sound solution,
which is really interesting
with so many other projects coming about.
And this has kind of been here the whole time,
which is kind of the weirdest part is like, but yeah.
I do think that what you mentioned
with the social consensus is important,
because there has been some things on chain that have had similar
possibilities. Version one of dot swap, it was similar where you had a deposit and then
you could trade quickly. But the consensus at the time was no one wanted to use it. And
so there's been other people who have built kind of pump fund like things on Bitcoin and
no one's really wanted to use them. But you know when Bob came along and and has a reputation he does in the space and then and build
this and the consensus starts to rally around that you know I think that's something that we need to
run with as a space because I think everybody agrees that fungibles on layer one as they exist
currently is not operable. I mean it just doesn't work it's not fast enough all the features of a
fungible just doesn't work and so I think the native aspect of what you guys have been building is very important.
Because again, as a user of Odin, I think it's awesome.
You're still using your same wallet.
You're not needing to find new tech and get used to a new wallet or new signing or not.
And so I think it's going to work.
And now it's just kind of ramping up the experience as
far as speed, especially if we bring over native runes. Are we going to be able to handle that
throughput? Are we going to, all the stuff that you guys have been working on on the back end?
But I think it's one of those situations that it seems like we may be somewhere in the near future
when it comes to fungibles.
It's not to say there won't be competition.
I know there's other areas looking to do it,
but ultimately you can build the best product,
but if no one uses it or buys it, it's not worth anything.
And I think that's kind of where we've been
at Bitcoin all along.
And it seems like we're starting to get a little smoke
over here on ICP that the ecosystem is waking up
to and starting to move towards.
Yeah.
One thing that I find just massive about ICP at the current state is how it
already has other chains integrated.
It's not just a Bitcoin to, um, you know, Bitcoin to fungible layer or whatever.
Um, it has Ethereum, it has Solana, and this is like a data aggregation
layer that is so important.
And like my big belief or cope with runes is like, I do believe that the
most solid use case of it is for all fungibles to come settled back as a
rune as these chains and things come and involving, you know, new networks come and go quite often, unfortunately.
And like, I do believe it being a native as a ruin is actually a pretty decent
use case as like, okay, say something happens on this abstract or whatever l two.
It can always fall back and like, um, fall back as a ruin and kind of go modular from there.
And I think, you know, with how far ICP is with it's Ethereum and, and Solana integration,
it being used as like a communication layer or like a account layer, if you will, is a
really interesting use case.
And yeah, I find it,
it's really exciting to kind of see, like you said to speed. I don't think we can double click on like how important social can like
consensus is like, like you said, dot swap had a solution like they did,
but like, uh, at least in the Western side of things,
like it wasn't adopted because people at that time were turbo maxi, they were like, nah, like, and, but that's a benefit that I think the
Bitcoin community has is we're very like self regulated, like, um, when it comes to
like, uh, security and things of that nature and like what gets kind of, um, trusted
and not trusted, if that makes sense.
But, um, but yeah, now that I hate to say it, but I feel like it was like
people were just desperate for the rooms bags to pump, but it unlocked like the,
Hey, it can work.
And luckily it was someone like Bob that has integrity with his security and
you know, what, what he builds on, which is like, it could have been someone else.
And it's like, oops, that bridge broke.
And that leads to back to square one.
But so far so good.
And it's like, it's been really cool to see it grow.
And the good news about this asset being secured by Bitcoin is you don't need to move it there
if you're just buying it and holding it.
You can put it in your cold storage.
You have the security and safety of Bitcoin that it's still wrapped around. You only need to move it there if you want to trade, you know, and or move your
Bitcoin there if you want to trade.
And so it's kind of like the way that we consider now, if you want to turn Bitcoin into fiat,
well, you have to move it somewhere to trade it, right?
There's no direct off ramps for most people to be able to just go and go to your ATM and take out dollars for your Bitcoin
through your, you know, decentralized mechanisms.
And so I just think it's one of those situations
where we need a trading mechanism
and we need a storage mechanism.
While we have the storage side,
now we just need a better trading metric.
And I think what Bob's working on
is one of those solutions.
Yeah, no doubt. Wait, this pin tweet is hype. Omnibity. I never pronounce it right, but, dude, can
you give some more insight? What's the TLDR on this? Phantom integrated runes trading. There's a feedback link. What is this? This is this is good stuff.
And so we we noticed that Odin has Phantom integrated and we were going to
have Phantom integrated at launch. And I actually shut it down because you can't
see your runes and ordinals when you receive them into a Phantom wallet today.
But those are BC1P addresses.
Those are TAP capable addresses.
So, they do not make very, very frequent releases,
but they like covering new markets.
And it would be easy for them to displace the costs
of running that part of the wallet infrastructure.
So that's the idea is that we were trying to grow the pie.
Odin has Phantom.
We have the capability to put it right back on our side, but that's the idea is that Phantom
has 15 million monthly active users.
We'd love to open the runes market to them. Yeah, I mean, Phantom, I actually talked to some of their team in Denver and kind
of telling them what we're doing with laser eyes and they were really open to,
um, you know, exploring it deeper.
So, I mean, check out that pin tweet, the feedback thing.
I do think leaving comments on stuff like that randomly does help get the attention,
comments on stuff like that randomly does help get the attention.
But it is like,
I would love to see Phantom like Phantom being my main Bitcoin wallet.
I just love Phantom to be honest. Um, it's such a great wallet and it,
I think if it taps into Bitcoin, um,
stronger we'll have a huge moment of traders from Phantom moving over to Bitcoin like the
Magic Eden like effect to be honest, like that brought on a lot of people love them
or hate them like Magic Eden, like, you know, being Solana native brought a lot of people
to ordinals and Phantom being the Solana dominant wall and how much the numbers that they have of how much liquidity
or how much holdings are in their wallets is insane. Like it's fucking actually insane.
But I know Bob's got a hard stop at 11 or like basically 15 minutes from now. So if
anyone has any questions, feel free, let's open up the AMA and kind of Yeah, feel free to chime in but
Hey Bob, if you mentioned timeline on native runes as far as this tomorrow, that's tomorrow. No, we talked about that earlier
No, no timeline, but yeah tomorrow
We're working on it we're building towards it as fast as we can. I don't have a timeline for you yet.
But I will happily share one when I have one.
Hey, can you guys hear me right now?
I got to plug Rich Wap in the meanwhile. Oh, yep, you're audible.
Yeah, what's up, man?
Yo, what's up? Long time Odin Fun user here. Bob, thanks for all your work, man.
I really appreciate it.
One, hey, I want you to be practicing Mario
and I got your high score beat.
Two, more importantly,
can you explain a little bit
about how someone makes money providing liquidity
for a rune on Odin fun?
Like, is there any math behind that? I provide liquidity for a rune on Odin Fund.
Is there any math behind that?
I provide liquidity for Odin Raven, and I'm wondering,
let's say I provided $1,000 liquidity at Odin Raven
when the price of it was one sat or something like that,
and it goes to two sats.
Does that mean I get double the amount of money out like cash out or double the amount of my Odin Raven out?
So anything related to math and the liquidity?
Yeah. Yeah. So the way the liquidity pools work is you put when you deposit liquidity, you put it in equal dollar amount of token and of Bitcoin.
And so, you know, let's say you put in, you know, one hundred dollars of token and one hundred dollars of Bitcoin. And so, let's say you put in $100 of token
and $100 of Bitcoin, and that goes into the liquidity pool.
Over time, all of the trades that happen between the token,
0.3% of the value of those trades
is coming back directly to the liquidity pool as a reward. And so that will
be distributed based on the portion of the liquidity pool that you control compared to
everyone else in the liquidity pool. So let's say that, I don't know, we do a hundred thousand,
a hundred thousand dollars of volume in this liquidity pool and let's say you own 1% of that so that would be $1,000 so that means you would let's see 1% of
that is 1,000 but then you only earn 0.3% so then 0.3% of a thousand is what?
0.3% of a thousand is $3. Yep. So that's what would come to you personally for providing
liquidity in the liquidity pool. Also, there's something called impermanent loss, which happens
with liquidity pools, where as the price of the token goes up, you're gradually. let's see, you gradually sell the token in favor of more Bitcoin.
Yep.
And then if the token price goes down, then you're gradually buying more
tokens in favor or in place of your Bitcoin.
And so if token price goes down, then gradually the pool shifts.
And so when you extract your liquidity from the pool,
you will get still an equal dollar amount of Bitcoin and token.
But it might be more tokens than you started with or more Bitcoin
than you started with, depending on whether the token price has gone up
or down since you added liquidity as a liquidity provider.
So that's the gist of rewards.
Love it.
Hey, thanks for your response.
And also thanks for the host.
Great sense of humor, Bunzi.
Shout out, ObenRaven.
Ah, ah.
Yeah, and you're gonna wanna look up
in permanent loss, my friend.
That's a word if you're providing LP
that you should be familiar with.
And permanent gains too, I guess, maybe sometime.
It's less of an issue on very liquid assets.
It's more of an issue on these smaller traded tokens.
And so I think that's something for people to keep in mind
when providing liquidity, maybe for some of these old runes.
Yeah, some of these stable meme coins.
Bob, I was wondering if you could just give a very easy layman's explanation of what happens
when you deposit funds into Odin.fund.
So is your Bitcoin basically getting converted on the back end into some type of a synthetic
Bitcoin that works on ICP rails?
And then also, if you create a token on Odin.fund and it's ascended, does that mean it kind
of simultaneously gets created on the L1 as well for you to be able to withdraw?
We're going to just clarify those two things. Yeah sure. So when you deposit Bitcoin
or when you deposit runes, in order to trade external runes you have to come deposit them
into the platform. Those are all held in a threshold signing setup that's directly
provided at the ICP protocol layer. So there's a threshold signing setup, there's an ECDSA
signing setup, there's also a Schnorr and EDDSA. So that's for, you know, Solana Cosmos integration
and for Taproot. So all assets go in directly to the threshold signing setup and then once they're
in there, then they make their way over to the Odin smart contract directly.
And from there, you know, funds are then credited directly within the Odin smart contract.
And you can trade them, you know, all within Odin fund at the speed of light, essentially.
And then when you're ready to withdraw, you essentially initiate a withdrawal from this Odin smart contract,
which then calls this threshold signing setup.
And then that directly crafts the Bitcoin transaction and signs it.
And then it broadcasts to the network.
And then that's how you can withdraw funds.
So it's all threshold signing setup based.
That's for deposits, that's Bitcoin, as well as runes, as well as any other Bitcoin meta
protocols that we integrate in the future
Regarding the lifecycle of a token you create a token and it only lives within Odin fun
And then once it bonds then we etch it directly to Bitcoin L1. We actually have a
decentralized etching service
This means that you can actually use a threshold Schnorr
Setup to directly etch from a smart contract.
We use our Omniti partners, you know, here next to me in the space, or their RunesTech there.
And then that is etched to Bitcoin L1.
We pre-mine the entire supply and then we lock that back up on the Omniti side.
And then that is then ready for anyone that wants to withdraw
their tokens. At that point, all of the tokens are Bitcoin backed and so you can just take your token
that's bonded or ascended and you can withdraw directly back to Bitcoin 01 and you get a fully
fledged Runes token and a UTXO in your Bitcoin wallet and you can do whatever you want with it.
Fully compatible with everything in the Bitcoin ecosystem. You can trade it on Magic Eden,
you could send it to people, you could do whatever you want with it in the Bitcoin ecosystem. So
that's a bit on the life cycle of a token. Yeah, it's awesome. I've been messing around
with the platform. It's really incredible
what you guys have built there. Congratulations.
Bob, I missed the first part, but is the plan that you guys are building currently, this
DEX, basically you'll launch tokens via Odin and then it'll kind of graduate to the DEX?
Is that kind of the plan all along? And then the established would be part of that platform as well? Yeah, so currently the DEX is just built
directly into Odin. When people are trading a token, it immediately swaps in
place from the bonding curve to the AMM curve. And so, I mean, Odin Fund is
already a DEX. It just supports bonding curve and AMM curve. So there's, you know, we've toyed around
with the idea of building a more DEX-like interface. You know, we could have lots of
different kind of swap interfaces directly built on the same kind of tech stack. You know, maybe
some people want a Uniswap style interface. Maybe some people want a more centralized exchange interface type feel.
And we're open to all of those. But even in its current form, no change is needed. I mean,
Odin Fund is basically a DEX already. All of the top tokens have all bonded and they're
all just trading on AMMs right now.
Yeah, that works great. I think, yeah, it just comes down to the searchability
as if it does really explode and how more toggles
and different things of that sort,
just so people can find what they're looking for,
given some of these names may be the same or similar,
just so we have some ways to designate between them.
Yep, yep, exactly.
Bob, do you have a favorite U of state?
That's a funny question. I live in Utah.
So, you know, I'm a big fan of
Utah, you know, if you haven't been out to Utah, you've got to come and check it out
I was just chatting with someone else in the Bitcoin space. That's a that's in Utah right now
I think they're down in Moab or arches or something like that
Anyway, beautiful state
Big John Stockton fan awesome. Yeah, I love it.
Yeah, Utah this time of year is beautiful.
Bikinis everywhere.
Right?
I thought you were skiing there Bunzie
while you were building Laser Eyes.
No, I was actually trying to like orange pill Mormons.
I was just going door to door
and just telling them about the good book, the good white paper.
And they were surprisingly buying that in vacuums from me
is pretty, pretty great.
It was pretty great.
Dumped a lot of JPEGs on their head,
told them it was like increases their odds about something
and they were into it.
So, but yeah, I'm going back next winter.
It's beautiful.
Um, no, but Bob, so ICP, I've been digging really deep into signing with
Bitcoin and like directly integrating that with laser eyes, but like, what are
some other things, cause I just finished, um, the beat block site and protocol and
stuff and I'm switching back to kind of
full laser eyes mindset and like what are some things that would help Odin or just like
any ideas of like where that all is heading and just kind of any ideas would be appreciated.
Yeah, I think one of the things that I love about laser eyesyes is, you know, they're like, we don't
have a wallet connect product on Bitcoin, somewhere that just like integrates all the wallets and makes
it really, really easy for an application developer to go, to go in and say, boom, you know, let me
grab this and let me just plug it in and let me, you know, leverage it in my application. Like
wallet integration, specifically native wallet integration, I think is one of the key unlocks and is why, you know, I think Odin Fund, it's so easy
to onboard users if we already support their wallet.
You know, if they can hold Bitcoin in a wallet and they can authenticate into applications
directly with that wallet, it just streamlines things so much.
And I know that there are additional wallets
that I've been talking to,
different wallets across various exchanges,
some of them with the million plus users
that are Bitcoin focused.
And it's kind of like a no brainer,
like why wouldn't we want to integrate all of these wallets
directly into LaserEyes
and let people just come in with their Bitcoin?
Like we don't care what the wallet is as long as it supports basic wallet standards.
If they have a Bitcoin user base, we should be adding them in and we should make it really,
really easy for people to authenticate and to bring liquidity to Bitcoin.
And so that's part of, you know, part one of my thoughts. Part two is I think there's a lot that can be done on ICP,
but potentially other places as well
to enable this kind of abstraction, you know,
account abstraction, wallet abstraction,
chain abstraction type ideas.
And I'm very supportive of all of these ideas
because I think that these kinds of experiences
will be king.
These kinds of streamlined user experiences are the ones that are going to win.
And I think LaserEyes is extremely well positioned to be a strong player there.
Yeah, no, I mean, dude, we actually just finished the docs, updated docs too.
Well overdue. So shout out all the builders that were using the janky ones, but
laserized dot build right now.
If you want to check it out, give feedback on it fully open source,
um, supported by a lot of, uh, really great companies that believe in open
source control being one of them, which is awesome, but yeah, it's growing.
And like the ICP stuff is really interesting.
And I've been exploring just natively putting sign-in with Bitcoin as a method in laser eyes to kind of help people abstract that whole building on ICP approach and you know, been chatting with the team there.
They're really interested, potentially giving laser eyes a grant as well to do this, which is super awesome.
at grant as well to do this, which is super awesome.
So if you're interested in building on Bitcoin laser, I are like, and doing
some things on ICP, um, you know, laser eyes could definitely be that solution.
Cause I'm telling you, I've been, it checks out.
And what's super interesting is like the CKBTC and like, um, all the
CK like eat CK Solana, I guess the questions for you, Bob, before you jump is like, is there any
contract like, or approaches that use CK insert token name as basically a
communication layer to say something just like ETH where, um, it's not,
because getting people to get CK Solana or whatever is quite difficult,
but using ICP as like, uh, an account layer or like a communication layer, if you will,
like I could see that being quite, quite massive. If you follow kind of what I'm getting out there
of like, basically instead of displaying from going from, how do I, I'll going from... I'll have to map it out a bit better, but just after exploring the canisters and how
some of these other token standards work, basically just using it as an automation layer,
I think could be super powerful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's definitely chat offline.
I think you're on the right track here. Like for us, you know, we kind of streamline things a little bit for Od to. Lately, we have been just absolutely destroying it on the on the deposit side.
In most most cases, it's one one confirmation plus a couple of minutes for processing.
And so deposits have been coming through really nice.
I go in and check the status of all the deposits every morning.
And it's just looking really, really good.
And so, you know, we streamline a lot of things.
And there are some interesting kind of technical
Not not hacks but like
You know, there's there's a certain way of building that I think can have some cool unlocks. So yeah
I think I put one of those stacks together dude
cuz yeah, I'd love to
Show you what I kind of architected a bit because
With the smart contract capabilities all native and then at having peripherals of all these other chains. It's it's pretty massive
But um, I know you I know you got a hard stop. So
Appreciate you coming ream if you got a quick question and it's quick
Uh, or do you have a super hard stop Bob like jump jump jump jump I
have
45 seconds Irene
My sex game is harder than that. Let's hear it
Our runes gonna be able to be withdrawn back to ICP with like on the CKB TC layer
Or is it only gonna be on like the native?
Bitcoin block. Yeah, so that So that's a great question.
Working with Omniti is pretty fantastic in this regard because you can withdraw your
tokens either way.
If you want to withdraw directly to the Bitcoin blockchain, then you can.
If you want to withdraw directly back to the ICP layer, you can do that as well. So we have some improved UI coming on the deposit
and withdraw side that will actually kind of facilitate this.
And this will kind of give us some interesting
interoperability across other people
who may want to build an Odin Fund-like application.
Is you could build some kind of,
I've talked to people wanting to do games
or people wanting to do poker or people wanting to do poker
or people wanting to do other things.
And I think all of these can be integrated
really nicely in with Odin fun using this kind of model.
So I think there's a lot of interesting synergies
there as well.
Great question.
Love it.
Great question.
Later, bro.
Have fun ascending. Yeah, appreciate you.
Tomorrow runes are live, right? Native ones. But, no, appreciate you coming on.
We do have a, I mean, Sav, I want to chat to you quickly because I've been seeing the Grid Wars and I'm trying to go to battle and I have a few questions. First of all, what is the TLDR on Grid Wars?
Because I'm trying to win.
And yeah, let's hear it.
Yeah, dude, Grid Wars.
TLDR is this is Penny's greatest work to date.
If any of you guys know Penny, not only is he an insane artist,
but the way his mind works on
storytelling and building intrigue around his art is probably like second to no other artist in the
space. Like I compare him to people like Sam Spratt or Jack Butcher and the way that his
strategic mind works. It's amazing what he's created here.
And the Grid Wars conversation really started last year
when all of us were sitting there watching
the Ordinal Space becoming like increasingly PVP.
And we were like, what can we do that is art focused,
but has the potential of bringing the whole space together?
And so we were like, fuck it.
We have this second rare sat that we panned right at the initial days of Ordinals.
And we were like, okay, let's make that a focal point and something that people can
win.
And those rare sats are anywhere between five to six figures
depending on the market.
And so that was like really the seed for great wars.
And then going from that starting point,
Penny literally built an entire artistic ecosystem
in which communities are going to hop on.
They're going to participate in a free mint that is coming up on April the 3rd.
It is a 24 hour free mint.
And if you are an enlisted community, you get five mints.
If you don't make the cut, you'll have two free mints.
But the idea is that you mint these troops.
And those troops are your characters
that you use to battle through the grid wars.
And the cool thing about it is that all of those troops
can be captained by any PFP from any Ordinal's collection.
And so this is where the whole space coming together comes in. by any PFP from any Ordinal's collection.
And so this is where the whole space coming together comes in.
You can be a ninja, you can be only one force.
For Mojis, we recently announced OCM, Steppepe's.
All these communities are jumping in and just can't wait to get stuck into this.
And so the idea is if your captain or if your PFP
ends up winning the grid wars after eight weeks of battle,
that PFP gets inscribed onto our rare sat.
And whoever that community member is in your project
gets to bring that rare sat back for the entire community.
And then it's really up to you as a collection
if you want to index that rare sat PFP into your official collection or not. But the idea is for you to mobilize
your troops and for everyone to literally go out and try and try and win their hand
at winning this rare sat. But as part of this whole experience, effectively there is a new
collection that will be created because the weekly battles are literally parking your troops, parking your troops
on grids and every week these troops, they win a particular trade.
Could be a background trade, could be a visor trade, a torso trade.
And really what's happening through these eight weeks is it's a artistic collaboration
between yourself and Penny.
He's created these incredible new
artistic elements which you equip your troops with and so by the end of that
eighth week you will have created a brand new PFP of your choice using traits that are
designed by Penny and so this will create a final collection of 1,500,
out of which 121 are going to be very, very rare pink eye,
an ordinary kind of PFP.
So everyone that basically makes it into that eighth week
will be in possession of a super rare piece of artwork
that they've collaborated with Penny on
in the process of trying to win this rare piece of artwork that they've collaborated with Penny on
in the process of trying to win this rare set.
So that's the basic concept.
Damn, so the TLDR, it's like battleships
and you place these, you battle,
and if you win, you could get a rare set
because you guys have two, correct?
Yeah, so the first rare Sat is, of course,
that Rare Sat is not going anywhere.
It's the first Rare Sat ever inscribed, Control-000.
This is a few weeks after we panned out that Sat,
we found a second Sat.
And so we've always had plans to use that Sat for something fun.
And yeah, and so that's the TLDR.
If you play a battleship style game,
you create some dope art and if you win,
you win that rare sat.
Let's fucking go.
Yeah, that's a fucking massive, holy shit.
That's fucking lit.
When is it started?
When does it start?
Yeah, so it kicks off with this free mint on April 3rd, so a couple more weeks. And the mint will take place over 24 hours. Once that mint closes, that's it. There's going to be no more troops.
And the idea is that the grid effectively has 10,000 spaces for you to...
It's literally like battleships, you got it right.
So you pick a piece of spot on the grid, you place your troop,
and you wait for the game week to end,
and then you find out whether your troop has basically died,
or it's acquired traits, or it has one pink eyes,
which basically catapulted into the final stage there's only
only three outcomes that happen every week and you go through that process over an eight week
period and that entire field of initial players will be reduced to a final 1500 also there's lots
of easter eggs and game mechanics built in so you, you know, if your troop dies, you can revive it.
If you don't like the trait that you got,
you can reroll for trait that you actually like.
So you're actually building your own PFP
as you go along this game.
And then there's just like very, very cool art
that surrounds all of this.
It's incredible what's been built here.
Yeah, that's dope. It sounds kind of like game speed of something like Pizza Pets,
potentially, of just being able to strategically and then you inscribe moves. Does that sound about right?
Yeah, exactly. And the challenge always with building on-chain gaming is there's
a compromise between how much inscription tech you use and how much you kind of have
off-chain elements to try and make the experience fast and easy to use. And so I think we found
a good balance as well. And at each stage as well, these troops are tradable. So, you
know, if you end up with troops that you're like,
oh yeah, this looks pretty cool,
but maybe I wanna trade it up
for a different looking troop, you can.
If people wanna join the game at a later stage in the game,
they can because, you know,
you can just pick up a troop from Magic Eden
that is already qualified for the first two rounds
and you can come in and join the game at that stage.
So that interaction between the marketplace and the game is also something that we've thought
long and hard about so that people can kind of just trade around it in a super cool way.
I love it. The new recursive endpoints and kind of things like this allowing for on
recursive endpoints and kind of things like this allowing for on on chain gaming is so sick. I think that
like yeah, this is
this is gonna open up so many other new ideas and this is I'm stoked dude, this is a really
innovative interesting approach to kind of
Doing something completely different on chain. It's
This is crazy.
The pin tweet, if you want to learn some more about it.
Um, but, but yeah, if anyone else, does anyone have any questions about that too?
But, um, the, I'm just curious of the technicals of all of it.
Cause that is like a lot of really interesting, cool stuff going down.
Um, I see rabbi joined if he wants to chat about it. But if not, we could
wrap this puppy up. But on Nimity, you just sent me some sick docs about runes on ICP
too. This is a some really, you guys are pretty, pretty far with all of this stuff. This is dope.
But yeah, I say, um, or do you have any comments on that? Or like, what, what is, yeah, if you can give me like the TLDR on, on Nimity, like,
uh, is it, yeah, let's hear it.
So we're built of Bitcoin full nodes that are on ICP basically.
So it's difficult to give like the super elevator pitch,
but in an elevator sense, there's the Bitcoin subnet on ICP that has,
I think, 33 or 34 Bitcoin full nodes that are part of that validator subset.
set.
Because the calls between those different sets of validators are streamlined and are
basically in sync with each other all the time, there's automation that we can do.
We also use the fiduciary segment for managing keys.
There's different specializations that we've just turned into these ICP
as a backend Bitcoin products.
So for example, the bridge that we operate,
it's just based on light clients built on ICP.
We use that to supply, I think, it's about $4 million.
I know it's about $2 million in liquidity,
depending on when you measure it,
going to the Omnity decks, sorry, the Omnity,
Osmosis decks in Cosmos.
So they get part of their total pool of Bitcoin from us
and simultaneously we're offering a runes bridge to many different locations.
That's what we've been offering for about nine months
and enriching the tooling around that, supporting minting, etching, a couple different things.
But the newer release of products that includes rich swap and RE is the backend, basically
it's tokenizing UTXOs and submitting PSPTs in semi standardized format.
So you don't actually have to send us a transaction.
If you broadcast a PSPT that's formatted correctly as a signed order, then you can use rich swap
without user interface.
There's no authoritative protections for it.
And that's the first, I think it's the first AMM, AMM decks on Bitcoin to go open source as of last week.
Damn. That's, that's awesome. That was actually one question I have for Bob was,
um, how interoperable it was, um, with, uh,
Odin fun with developers wanting to, you know, or if it's,
but if I'm assuming correctly,
it sounds like a communication layer on, on ICP,
kind of connecting the dots from different data providers and potentially
might butcher the term, but like canisters kind of communicating between all of
these different, um, like, uh, data layers in ICP.
Is that kind?
Yeah, you're not butchering it at all.
No, that's, that's exactly right.
I mean, we built on here in the past because we could is that kind? Yeah, you're not butchering it at all. No, that's exactly right. I mean,
we built on Neer in the past because we could do that kind of like cross-contract call,
you know, chained logic very easily, segmented, you know, contract logic very easily.
We've found that's even better with canisters. So part of the link that I sent you is
dashboard.internetcomputer.org, if I'm not mistaken. For anybody who wants to check out our docs,
that's kind of the secret sauce to have very easy,
tangible access to anything that we're talking about
in docs.omnity.network,
because all of those canisters
are just full of public functions.
They're not authoritatively locked in any way.
So, the contracts that make it possible to mint on other chains and all that stuff it
Has to be you know open it can't be this like black box stuff
Oh, dude, we got a chat because I've architected something I got pretty
went pretty deep in the
trenches when I was starting to read up on
canisters and
ICP and it sounds like I got to run it by you to see if it would work.
But yeah, I mean, this was the missing piece in my head with ICP was the isolation of canisters.
But obviously it seems like you guys spotted that and solved for it because that is the unlock is like finding the data abstraction layer that the only like FUD that I've heard about this in general is like,
and this was just from one person that could be completely incorrect,
but like how many nodes and how many things are securing ICP.
They said it was quite low. Is that, I don't know. That was the only thing.
Everything else like was like,
what is the data security layer or how many nodes
are running ICP?
Is there any insight there?
There's numbers towards the bottom of the stack.
Yeah, cause that's my background.
That's my bread and butter.
So I asked that question too.
There's a 17 party MPC that's the sort of combined custody agent for about a billion
dollars in Bitcoin.
That's the level of commitment that they have at a financial level, but it drives sort of
cryptographic demand to do good stuff with software, blah, blah, blah. That leads to a need for AVX 512 and other extensions that are important for efficient
TEE compute and things like that.
So I know that the MPC network is this sort of like audited proprietary Swiss thing.
So there is some linchpin like that. But from a validator perspective,
I'm pretty sure it's 34, if not 33 validators in the Bitcoin subnet. Now talk about a catch.
I mentioned it in passing before because I mean to disclose it but not to camp on it.
That's not the focus. But there's different subnets on ICP, right? Different specializations
of certain subsets of validators, that's perfectly fine and reasonable,
but there's a throughput between them.
And that's part of what Bob had to solve for at one point.
And I think that other applications
will end up solving for that as well,
is that if you wanna build something
that has multiple canisters in different subnets,
which is not uncommon at all,
then as you grow, you'll find ways to streamline that, possibly take certain things off-chain,
or do a little bit more at the user interface. That's part of how we were able to deliver our
product, is that when you launch our UI, there's a sort of SDK already built into it, just a little TypeScript clump, if you will, but other people could use that and we're not permissioning that.
So I think that's the ultimate thesis is that they are effectively open APIs
that are protected by ICP as an identity. an identity simultaneously, they accept HTTP calls.
So like being able to get, you know, 200 over and over again from monitoring an
app that's off chain like that.
That's incredible for businesses, you know?
Yeah, no, I mean, it's, it's crazy.
Like going back, that was like the only thing and without having too much
expertise in it, that was like, sounds like we have a lot to talk about because it seems like, um, yeah, you've,
you're on the side of things like that. I have a bit more questions about,
but I it's amazing.
You are solving for the one thing that I was like looking at.
I was like the interoperability of these canisters, like,
like once that is like seamless, this becomes massive. And then just like the,
you know, this is probably more of a question for the ICP foundation, but like their plan on growing that the, um, the nodes and the security and the, how many
people are part of the, um, the signatures and like, I forget their terminology or the,
the name, but it's basically like a TSS, like a threshold signature schema throughout. I think they call it
forget what they call it, but
that's how everything's being handled on the signature side
autonomously if you will for all these different networks, but
Yeah, no, I'm super excited to dive deeper into it because it sounds like you guys are solving the exact thing or
That I was kind of thinking about, but, uh, but yeah, no, this is,
this has been a dope space. I mean, I appreciate Bob coming through. Um,
and so I've chatting about grid wars someday.
We're going to get penny on the show. Um, when that day comes, uh,
the internet will break and, um, full,fledged war will break out but yeah
now if anyone has anything else feel free to chime in but uh but yeah looking
forward to next Friday space I think we got Donald Trump coming on the show you
guys heard of him no but appreciate everyone that stopped by. Um, and next Friday,
I guess we'll fud quantum cats and see if they minted out or not.
And that'll be fun. Um, but yeah,
appreciate everyone stopping in. Uh, got a beat block outro.
This was fully generated a hundred percent on Bitcoin.
It's going to be coming out pretty soon
Beat blocks.io if you want to learn some more but yeah high quality music on Bitcoin play it back right here
Already here between two DJs see you next Friday. I'm gonna be the one to make you feel better I can see it all the time I can see it in my mind ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប ប Oh I'm gonna go ahead and turn it up. .
