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Beyond DeFi – How to Live on Arbitrum 💙💛🎁
Recorded: April 22, 2025 Duration: 1:05:33Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the growing trends in DeFi, the strategic partnerships enhancing platforms like Bitrefill and Arbitrum, and the importance of user experience in the evolving crypto landscape. With a focus on financial autonomy and innovative solutions, the conversation underscored the potential for significant growth in the sector.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Miguel, are you on?
In the quick sound check, is everything coming through okay, internet connection wise?
Hey, Thomas.
Are you there? Are you there? Thank you. Hey, Raul, does everything sound okay on my end or should I switch to my phone?
It sounds okay. Can you hear me too?
No one can hear it.
Hi everyone. Can you guys hear me?
Yes.
How are you doing?
Doing good. How about you? All is well, thank you. How was your Easter break?
Yeah, it was great. Good rest.
Thomas, Raul, can you hear this?
Yeah, Miguel, can you hear me okay?
Yeah, all fine.
All right. Awesome.
Thank you, though.
Thank you, though.
Yep. Yep, fine with my hand. Perfect, perfect. I kind of wish Twitter spaces had like waiting room music like discord uh did right so we're not all sitting here in silence just uh blessed
bless your speakers man Thank you. At least I feel like everyone should be in a good mood for this space with the way the
prices are going.
Finally have a little bit of green on the screen.
Yeah, deserved green after that that after those past two months
yes the beatings will continue until morale improves right well discerned
just trying to get churro to amplify So amplify. Should we give it another 60 seconds and then get this party started?
Yeah, sure.
Do you guys want to retweet from your side as well, just in case?
Like the post from yesterday.
So I'm telling the Arbitrum team as well
to amplify from their side.
I think we can wait maybe five minutes,
or until like 5.05 and then start just to kind of.
Agreed, agreed, yeah.
Just give it a couple of minutes.
Everyone's just looking at the charts, so.
Distracted.
I can't see the chat room from my side. Thank you. you is it better now?
You mean your volume?
Yeah.
That's fine.
Okay, cool.
Thank you. Vielen Dank. Do you guys also have a YouTube channel or socials where you can post afterwards?
Or like on Twitter?
We do have a YouTube channel, but we haven't done a lot there, to be honest.
But I think mostly it's here on Twitter or X.
Yeah.
I think that there's a little bit of a plan for this content as long as it's not too boring
for everyone and we don't blow it.
So yeah.
By the way...
There's a plan if everyone everyone has good enough time by the way churo from off
chain lab said can we send out our live tweet and then they're gonna arbitrary we're gonna retweet
arbitrary account so if we can get a tweet out
yeah i'm seeing it
and then i'll just send the link.
Yeah, send it on the Telegram channel.
Perfect.
Yeah, but like as a tweet.
Can we do that?
Ah, as a tweet.
Okay.
Yeah.
Maybe Miguel, could you help us do that? Ah, that's it. Okay. Yeah. Maybe, Miguel, could you help us with that? Just post to our live and then add the link and then we can retweet it.
Yeah, posting that now.
We'll share with you. Hey. Thank you. Thanks. Cool.
But maybe we should start the party and hopefully more people will start joining.
Can we just wait a bit for the retweet to come through from the Orbitrum side?
Oh, yeah.
Two minutes, we start to about this, and then we can see what happens.
Perfect.
Okay.
Cool, cool, cool. Okay, they retweeted so on. Thank you. should we start then i think uh 16 yeah let's uh let's jump in
let's uh let's do it let's go
hello everyone hello everyone uh we're here withvitrum Foundation to talk a little bit about DeFi deals
and actually how you can spend those gains that you do with whatever you do on DeFi,
LAPing or whatever you guys do, perhaps anything like that.
whatever you guys do, perhaps anything like that.
So I am Raul.
So I am Raul.
I work for Bitrefill for four years,
currently in the business development team.
And here's also Thomas from Bitrefill.
I will let him introduce himself.
Yeah, I'm Thomas.
I'm our head of customer happiness here at Bitrefill.
I've been at Bitrefill for a little over four years as well too.
And yeah, super excited to talk to everyone about Arbitrum as well as anyone here from
the Arbitrum community that's hearing about BitRefill for the first time.
Nice to meet you both.
I'm Enes.
I'm part of the, I'm a Success Analyst with Arbitrum Foundation.
I've been here for about three months now
and looking forward to discuss how to live on crypto.
Yeah, cool.
I guess first I will tell you a little bit about yeah yeah i can go ahead and
start uh first of all i wanted to ask for those who are from the arbitrage community what exactly
is bitrefill and what are you what's your mission so i can have that first part. So Peterfield, we call ourselves a crypto e-commerce, so the largest crypto e-commerce in the world, where we let users buy gift cards with their tokens, which then they can redeem for in real life um object so the best example that i usually do is uh if i want to buy a playstation
5 for example and i have uh some usdc uh on arbitrum i go to a beat refill and maybe buy
i don't know how much it costs the playstation but let's say $600 or something on those lines.
And of Amazon, a gift card, go to Amazon, redeem it.
And then once I have that balance there,
I buy my PlayStation 5.
And then I went from having tokens on-chain
to having a PlayStation in real life
without touching Fiat or without touching an exchange, centralized exchange.
That's pretty cool.
Is there a reason behind the name specifically BitRefill?
Yeah, I can touch on that.
So yeah, so BitRefill started over 10 years ago.
We actually had our 10-year anniversary
party at our last team offsite in November. And this all started from our founder. We have three
co-founders and they really enjoyed Bitcoin and were looking for a way to be able to live on
Bitcoin. And when it comes to
living on Bitcoin or living on crypto, there's three things you really need to be able to
live on something, right? You need to be able to spend, earn, and save. And there wasn't really,
there was plenty of ways for people to save, whether that's cold storage or, you know, DeFi wasn't really around
at that point. Earning, pretty simple, peer-to-peer, sending crypto from one person to another.
But that last part, spending, there wasn't really a way to be able to spend your crypto
kind of in the way that Raoul spoke of earlier. So in 2014, Sergey found that through phone refills, because prepaid phones,
if you're in the US, you're used to just like having T-Mobile or AT&T where you pay them $50
a month for the pleasure of being able to use your phone. But a lot of folks have prepaid phone plans and he found that that was actually a really
simple and easy way to get access to those APIs to be able to top up your phone doing a phone
refill with Bitcoin hence the name BitRefill so I feel like yeah
pretty cool I like that I like that I like the lore behind the name I feel like, yeah. Pretty cool.
I like that.
I like that.
I like the lore behind the name.
Yeah.
I'm just following.
Yeah, just following.
No, sorry.
Go ahead.
No, I was going to say, so BitRefill really started from phone refills. And then, you know, over years and years, we're looking for, you know, to enable more people, more ways to be able to send, to be able to spend their crypto, which is how, you know, kind of our biggest segment right now, which is instant digital gift cards.
cards. So yeah, it started in 2018 during a brainstorming session where people were looking
for ways to be able to, you know, do more than top up your phone. And so again, you know, like,
like Raul was saying, being able to have people be able to spend their crypto on real world things.
And, and, you know, the flow for most people right now is,
hey, send your money into a centralized exchange, you know, convert it into cash,
transfer that over to your bank account, and then use traditional Rails. Versus through
instant digital gift cards, we found a way to be able to spend pretty instantly. If you wanted to order food on DoorDash or
groceries on Instacart or order something on Amazon, none of those places actually accept
any sort of crypto versus instead with this, you send your crypto within 10, hopefully under 10
seconds per our goals, be able to generate an instant digital gift card
for the amount that you want
and then be able to spend that,
whether you're ordering food, groceries,
PlayStation 5, or some essentials off of Amazon.
I mean, that does cut out the middleman in a way.
It just makes everything much faster.
I mean, I think you briefly touched on that but what would you say like bit refill's mission is exactly from a high level perspective
yeah our our core premise is being able to live on live on crypto and so yeah i did talk about
that uh touched on that a little bit of you know know, to be able to live on a currency, you need to be able to spend, earn and save.
And yeah, the spending, again, all those other two elements of saving and earning, you know, they still need to be developed, but there's plenty of people working on those versus that last leg of being
able to actually suspend your crypto is a need that really needs to be filled. So yeah, so that's
the part that we really focus on is having people be able to live on chain and then, you know,
like, yeah, kind of cut out your bank account, be able to debank yourself.
And in order to do that, you know, we need to kind of rethink that flow of people sending money into a centralized exchange and cashing out, getting into your traditional banking rails.
And so, yeah, that is our core mission is being able to let people live on crypto.
Nice, nice.
And can I ask why Betriffel added Arbitrum as a payment method?
Yeah, I think Raul has a few things to say about this as well, too.
But I can say so, you know, as our head of customer happiness, I spend a lot of time talking to our customers, whether it's a support issue or customer interviews.
You know, we really want to get to know who's using BitRefill.
And one of the things from us is, you know, customers are always suggesting, hey, could you support this token, this network,
with a pretty high level of frequency? And kind of my always follow-up question is,
how are you using it? And some of the answers that we got from the Arbitrum community were the most compelling, where you really saw people trying to live on chain, trying to earn and, you know, live off of DeFi. And so for us,
there are plenty of reasons that we added Arbitrum. But first and foremost, it was a
customer demand. That's where a ton of our customers, a ton of power crypto users are,
you know, living and trying to, you know, trying to live on crypto.
So that was a big reason.
But then also the alignment with Arbitrum
and being one of the more decentralized L2s.
When you look at L2B,
you guys are the closest to reaching that stage two,
having a full green pie, if you will.
And so for us, it's like kind of going back
to one of the core premises of Bitcoin,
of being able to be your own bank
is also not being able to be debanked
by whatever platform you're using.
And Arbitrum has the quality you know
most of the qualities where you you can't be debanked by that uh debanked or censored you know
whatever your definition of that is um you know it really gives people the sovereignty to you know
do what they want to on chain in a in a uh you, with the most level of freedom.
100% agreed.
I'm kind of curious, what made you come to the Arbitrum Foundation and kind of what aligns
for you the most?
for you the most? Honestly, I was actually in crypto for four years prior to making the jump
and working full time in crypto. And I'd say the most layer two or chain I've ever used
throughout my time prior to joining was Arbitrum. So I did a lot of my DeFi stuff, a lot of my OG farming days, stable farming,
mostly was done on Arbitrum. And to me, that's why when one day I decided, look, I want to
take that leap and jump into crypto full time. It made sense to me to apply with what I was
most knowledgeable with and what I was most used to, basically. And that's why it made sense for me to join the Arbitrum team.
So I found an opening for the role of a grand success analyst as part of the ecosystem team.
And that resonated with me because prior to joining crypto, I was a strategy consultant
focused on growth and these things.
So it was kind of like a natural shift to be able to grow an ecosystem out in a way.
And honestly, I haven't looked back since.
I'm really happy with my decision.
The Arbitrum team and community are all super strong, super aligned.
Our vision is clear for the next phase of crypto.
I think we're here for the long haul.
And it's really great to see that even though there's no,
like the metrics and everything are still holding up super high,
despite there being no sort of farming incentives on the chain itself.
Whereas nowadays you see on different new EVM chains, despite there being no sort of farming incentives on the chain itself.
Whereas nowadays you see on different new EVM chains,
people just use that chain because,
oh, I'm going to get an airdrop in a couple of months.
Whereas with Arbitrum, even though there is none of that incentive,
people are still super active on it and it's still one of the most used chains in that regard.
So, yeah, I mean, that's like a high level answer.
Yeah, that's awesome. I have to say, I don't mean to leave Raul out of giving him a little
bit of credit of he's the one that Arbitrum pilled me the most because, you know, again,
one thing that I do do is when a customer is like, hey, you should support this chain, this token,
is when a customer's like,
hey, you should support this chain, this token,
and I ask them, how are they using it?
I try to eat the dog food and try it out.
So most of our customers were talking about,
hey, being able to be your own bank with Aave on Arbitrum.
And that was cool.
But Raul was the one that introduced me to GMX, where he was like,
hey, look at, you know, you can use GLP as like an informal savings account, get this yield in
ETH. And that was a real eye-opener for me on that front, to be able to, you know, have real
yield coming out of it. And then that, you then that led me down the hole of seeing how many projects are focused on that.
Not creating...
Ponzi is sometimes a good word in crypto, sometimes a bad word,
but having there be that real yield and that real use case to be able to reward users in an inflated way,
and that real use case to be able to reward users
in an uninflated way like you touched on,
where instead of people just hunting for airdrop
or the temporary token incentives,
building something that's truly like structural
and foundational to being able to live on chain.
100%, agreed.
Thanks for that, Raoul.
Yeah, no, no, it was also Arbitrum and GMX actually my first,
the first time I talked to DeFi in a way.
And yeah, since that time I'm not stopped.
I have not stopped.
And yeah, it was, yeah, Thomas, sorry.
But on that, I wanted to ask you, Anas, why does DeFi exist or why do you think we need DeFi?
I think DeFi has been one of the greater things to come out since Bitcoin.
I think the high-level purpose with DeFi is to
give people control over their money. So rather than me as an individual relying
on banks and financial institutions, you can access like an essentially a
transparent and fair thing that's run on the blockchain. I think a very
important, I think it was an eye-op opener last year when we had the, or two
years ago when we had the SVB crisis, like the banking crisis, where banks no longer
had the liquidity to cover for people's accounts.
And we had a scenario where people were looking at how much money they could be insured.
And it turned out like every single account has up to 250k insurance.
So let's say you had 5 million in a bank, you're only insured for 250,000 of that in case the bank went bust or anything, like some systemic risk happened.
I think this is where DeFi comes in.
it gives you full ownership and full ownership of your own money um it's it's your own and you
It gives you full ownership of your own money.
you can you know no one can stop you or take it from you or i'm not really relying on anyone else
to to manage the risk for it if that makes sense so i think from a high level pov this is why defi
is so important and why we need it to exist. Another thing is, like some nations where there's restrictions on what to do with your finances,
having DeFi is super important.
So in developing nations where maybe the currency is much less stable than the US dollar,
it gave access to people to go on-chain and get on-chain dollars, which is USDT,
or start saving in Bitcoin, or just giving you more opportunity to hedge yourself
to the financial system in a developing and weaker country.
So I'd say these are the two most prominent reasons as to why DeFi exists and why it's super important for it to continue existing, in my opinion.
What about you? What do you guys have a take on the importance of DeFi?
on of reducing the amount of kind of the parties involved in your own transactions from both like
a freedom and privacy or freedom and censorship standpoint, as well as an access standpoint,
and just a privacy standpoint as well, too. So, you know, we see it all the time that
you touched on where there's many markets that people would like to have exposure to euros or dollars or something that's not their own local currency.
That might be that, you know, we all most people are like, ah, the dollar or the euro, but there's but there's there's plenty of other currencies that are a thousand times worse.
And so a lot of people are seeking kind of that safety in those more global currencies.
But also, you know, most trade settlements, most things are happening in a dollar denominated
thing and the payment rails for crypto are just a lot easier.
So for us, for example, BitRefill is a Swedish company, but I want to get paid in dollars.
And it's a thousand times less friction and easier for them to send me a dollar-denominated stablecoin like USDC for payroll rather than messing around with
bank transfers and wires that might get delayed. So both from like a friction standpoint as well
as fees too, right? So if they're sending me, you know, USDC on Arbitrum, that's going to cost them
less than a penny. And they're not going to be subjected to
weird, crazy exchange rates and other take rates from the banks involved. So really cutting out
those intermediaries, it puts more money back in the pocket of the people that are doing the labor,
doing the work, whether that's your day-to-day job or farming on chain or
anything along those lines. So yeah, for me and myself, I would say that that's pretty paramount.
And then also just from a privacy standpoint, like when you go getting a loan on Aave or
something along those lines, or being able to trade perps on GMX, if you were trying to do that in a centralized fashion, the amount of KYC and other submissions that you would have to do and banking hours and all that is way harder rather than just opening up your wallet, depositing collateral and getting yourself a loan
without any information needed
because it can be a trustless system.
100% agree.
Yeah, I think you covered that pretty well.
I have another question for you on that slide.
Okay, we were talking about DeFi a lot, but then why should people use Arbitrum when they
want to do DeFi?
Interesting question.
So I think I'm a bit of a classic man when I say I, Ethereum is the number one spot for DeFi.
It seems to be a non-consensus take these days.
But I'd say the number one spot for like, just in terms of decentralization, in terms of security, is ETH obviously.
And just also in terms of like TVL, just the amount of money that's parked up and available on ETH is higher compared to any other chain.
And that's where Arbitrum comes in and where Arbitrum has been the leader actually in this, where we covered like the highest, we have the highest total value secured from any other layer two and any other roll up.
you've secured from any other layer two and any other roll up.
So Arbitur makes it way faster and way cheaper to use DeFi without sacrificing the security
of ETH.
So it's kind of like a win-win situation where we have that security and decentralization
from ETH.
And at the same time, you still don't lose to slower transactions and more expensive gas fees.
So that's one angle to it, just the fact that it's faster, cheaper, while also maintaining the security.
Another thing would be how the community of Arbitrum is very DeFi savvy.
unity of Arbitrum is very, very DeFi savvy. So if you can see like majority of teams that have
started like strong DeFi projects are Arbitrum aligned or have been born and raised in Arbitrum,
as we say. So you can, like we said, GMX. And this is an interesting and hot example for
recently, which is more relevant as Hyperliquid. So I think there's a, I mean obviously Hyperliquid
are their own chain right now, but the fact that it was used
for USDC deposits via Arbitrum as well just shows like how
trust, how much trust teams have for the Arbitrum system
and the Arbitrum ecosystem in general.
So I just think it has that like massive DeFi culture. And that stemmed because
of the fact that it's cheaper and faster and leverages the ETH security. So I think that's
the high level thing. Just out of curiosity, is there anything like since you're involved in the
grants program, is there anything in particular that particular from the grants or just Arbitrum Foundation focus that you think is really going to expand the blueprint and access to DeFi on Arbitrum?
100%.
One team we've been working closely with is Austium Labs.
So Ostium has seen like a massive surge in volumes over the past month or two.
Austium has seen a massive surge in volumes over the past month or two.
And Ostium is basically an on-chain where you can long or short real-world assets.
So I think that's a pretty cool branch out to crypto.
Honestly, so far, the biggest use case we've seen in crypto is trading futures and leverage
trading like GMX and Hyperliquid, etc. all bring in a crazy amount of fees.
And I think what Ostium are doing now with their on-chain finance house is really taking
it to the next step because it gives you that opportunity to long real-world assets.
So rather than having to like,
I think that goes back to what we were saying
with living on crypto,
rather than like withdrawing my money,
like after I take my profits,
rather than withdrawing my money,
taking it to the bank,
depositing it onto a new exchange
to buy lower risk stuff,
such as like stocks or bonds or whatever i can just do that on chain
via austium and not only that but you can actually access like leverage with it so in case you're
more like on a conviction that there's more volatile price action you can take advantage of
that so i think this is all like coming together to have like kind of everything be on chain in a way. And I think the next five to 10 years, we'll just, that's just going to keep getting stronger and stronger.
Living on chain and living in crypto in general.
I think it's up and to the right, if that makes sense.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm kind of wondering because, you know, as you speak on this, where we're talking about like real world assets and you touched on like the, you know, the banking crisis with SVB and Silvergate and Signature Bank, you know, a few years ago.
Is there anything in particular that Arbitrum's doing to support maybe like less centralized stable coins where, you know, more of it lives on chain?
Actually, we have been doing.
So in terms of stable coins, obviously you have USDT and Circle USDC.
So that's like we offer support for those.
And for obvious reasons, they're the most used stable coins and they're the most reliable stable coins in that sense.
But we've also been working with different regions.
So we recently launched a stable coin in South America.
I think it was Argentina or Mexico.
Actually, it was Argentina.
Argentina. So we launched an Argentinian stablecoin and I think that was pretty cool that
So we launched an Argentinian stable coin.
eventually like we're going to integrate like different currencies and different countries as
well so more and more people can access crypto with their local currencies as well so that won't
be a block point or a pain point. So I think that's like one aspect I'm super excited for is not only like, are we going into
the dollar and euro route, but we're also an Arbitrum supporting local stable coins and
bringing that on chain as well. I think that's a super untapped market. And there's a big
opportunity for us in Arbitrum to take advantage of that.
an arbitrary to take advantage of that.
That's great.
I think, yeah, I think...
Yeah, I have...
You're going to start.
No, no, go ahead.
And then I have a question to ask as well.
Yeah, go for it.
Okay, so obviously we've been touching a lot on like
BitRefill and living on crypto in general.
What would you say sucks about living on crypto right now?
And what do you think we need?
Yeah, I think that, you know,
one of the things, like,
I think that we could all agree that there's plenty of things
that suck about living on crypto.
People always talk about the UX and the UI from the wallet standpoint.
But in this, we talked about how there's this solution that we found with gift cards, right?
To be able to buy your groceries,
buy your stuff on Amazon or Apple,
your iPhones and whatnot.
But there's still extra additional steps there, right?
And other parties involved.
And so for us, finding a way to get as close
to the kind of final transaction as humanly possible, I think would really improve living on crypto.
Something that we had solved a little bit ago was U.S. bill pay.
So that way you can pay your insurance bill, your mortgage directly with crypto.
And I know that that's something that we still have for regions like El Salvador, for example. But I think that if we're able to really do that for more and more regions, that would drastically reduce the suck on living on crypto.
drastically drastically reduce the suck on living on crypto uh right so uh you know again being able
to i think that our goal and living on crypto is being it so that way your wallets are your are
your bank accounts that you can trust and know that you uh when you do need to send a transaction
it's as close to that final transaction that you want to do as humanly possible.
it's as close to that you know kind of final transaction that you want to do as humanly possible
That's great. Do you think going forward, do you think it's more of a business development
thing where you have to onboard these different teams and convince them? Or do you think it's
going to be more of a regulation thing where if regulation is more straightforward, then more companies would be open to that idea.
Yeah, I think that it's kind of all the above that you talked about. So from a regulation
standpoint, getting people, getting bill pay providers or other services that we want to do from a payment
services perspective comfortable with crypto is not a small task. So that's definitely a part of it.
And then I do think that there's a little bit of a supply and demand thing that the more people that are clamoring for this, the easier it makes it.
Right. So so, you know, the more people that are being vocal about it, I think that we saw this in the in the last U.S. election where, you know, crypto was always a footnote, if not a negative footnote.
where crypto was always a footnote, if not a negative footnote.
And through numerous efforts and kind of mobilizing the community of people,
realizing like, hey, this is an important issue for folks
because giving people that financial freedom and inclusion is incredibly important.
But one of the things that you touched on as well, too,
is traditional rails, they do kind of suck. is incredibly important. But one of the things that you touched on as well too is, you know,
traditional rails, they do kind of suck. And so there is also that as well too, where,
you know, figuring out a solution right now to be able to go directly from,
you know, Ethan Arbitrum into paying your mortgage is not a simple thing. And it's not a solution that you can just plug in
and press go right now. So it is a complicated thing to solve on that part because the actual rails are still a little archaic.
So getting those new rails of crypto to be able to talk to those traditional rails
or possibly upgrade those legacy payment systems is something that needs to be worked on.
But then, yeah, there is also the regulation part which i think will come with uh
you know will come with the the demand of uh kind of just the general population
agreed agreed on the above for sure uh i just want just wanted to add my take on that as well
if you don't mind like I think from a user perspective,
like what currently is not great about living in crypto right now is like let's say I had my money in the wallet. I'm not sure if I would be able to find that thing that I'm looking for on chain or
not. And sometimes you just think, okay, let me just withdraw and buy what I want. And it would be like less of a hassle rather than going online and searching.
Or like, you know, like just that whole process.
I'm not sure that makes sense from a user perspective.
But I think like the more and more like, for example, BitRefill grows
and the more market share it has, it's actually better for the user
because you just have this one-stop shop where I just go directly to BitRefill and then
I see what I'm looking for and if it's there, I buy it.
And if it's not, then I have to go through other means.
But I think that's the biggest pain point for users because there's many that claim to do that.
And you're not sure where to go or how to start or like without a guide.
You know what I mean?
Like, but I think over time, this will naturally just solve itself.
Once there's like a, yeah.
Yeah.
I think that that's something we must have skipped on a little bit in the, what sucks about living on crypto is there's a,
skipped on a little bit in the, what sucks about living on crypto is there's a,
building up that trust is something that we do need to solve. So, you know, trust that you are
interacting with parties that are actually going to do what they say they're going to do, but then
also, you know, trusting that, yeah, if you do spend, you know, $850 on Apple, that that actually is going to get
you an iPhone at the end of the day. So I think that there's that trust and information that
comes along here. And that's a big part for us that we try to work on of just making sure that
we have, you know, perfect order fulfillment to help build that trust
for our customers and our community.
So, because I think that one of the real benefits of crypto
is that word of mouth is so powerful, right?
So if someone's able to say,
hey, I was actually able to, you know, buy my groceries
and this did actually work, that, you know, goes a
long way of someone mentioning that in a Telegram or, you know, a Telegram group or a Discord
server.
So I do think that, you know, a part that we really play and a part that, you know,
the people like Arbitrum really play is building up that trust for the
community. So that way they can, you know, realize more and more that when they are adding assets
into their wallet, or they're signing a transaction, that that actually is going to fulfill
what they want, and that the tools actually work on that front.
Yeah, that makes sense.
It's like a two-way road.
It's not just on the e-commerce platforms.
It's also on the chains themselves.
Agreed.
Yeah.
Thank you, guys, for all of that.
But maybe since there's around 50 minutes left,
we can go to see if someone has a question.
And just a quick reminder that there's three $50 BGFL gift cards
for whoever wants to interact with us and want to ask some interesting questions.
So I don't know if someone wants to ask something to either Anastamas or myself.
Can the host ask questions for the gift cards?
Yeah, of course.
It depends on if you ask one of the best three questions, right?
So let's see on that.
And then also just to clarify for everyone,
a BitRefill balance card gives you USD credit at BitRefill
that then you can use to spend on other gift cards.
So that is what a balance card is on that one.
But yeah, go for it. Whoever wants to ask the question first.
Yo, what's going on, people? I'm just going to quickly jump in. I had a question for the
BitRefill team. I love the tech and I've been on Arbitrum for a while and I've been on BitRefill for over a year now. And I've used it for everything when going to big crypto events to sporting events to gaming events and basically most of my travel and even groceries I've been using it for.
So it's like an incremental part of what I'm doing as a creator
and then going from TradFi and gaming into DeFi and decentralized gaming as well.
One of the things I wanted to ask you guys is,
do you have any upcoming incentives for people that are going to be partners or ambassadors?
So for example, I've put on probably like at least 20 or 30 big, big YouTubers
to BitRefill that had no idea that this tech was available and how seamless it was. Most of these
creators don't really mention crypto forward facing, but behind the scenes, everyone's doing
crypto or is, you know, taking some sort of payments in crypto and showing them how to get
their new tech, new games,
groceries, all these things in crypto was so easy through BitRefill. I just wanted to ask if there
was any added or extra incentives that you guys might be planning for people that are going to
be introducing more people to BitRefill. Because as far as I know right now, like every person I've
added on to it, I mean, just introducing them is a reward alone
because it helps change their lives
in the way that they're operating
and able to access their money
and be able to do different things with it.
But is there anything added that you guys might be adding
as an added bonus for people
that are bringing or creating using BitRefill?
Yeah, so, and Raul can chime in here.
Please chime in here as well too. So, you Raul can chime in here. Please chime in here as well, too. So, you know,
something that is always, you know, I think it plagues all companies as well, too. But for us, in particular, we are, you know, right now we do have a referral program for folks, but we would
really like to ramp that up. so that way our best users are getting
the best rewards on that.
So that is something that we're kind of, that's currently in the works of making it
so that way our referral program is more robust for folks, so that way it is rewarding that word of mouth, but also doing it for us,
the kind of the fine balance is doing it in a way that people aren't gaming or spamming the system.
So that way we are rewarding folks like you that are bringing in real users and whatnot. So that is something as well as, you know, one thing,
we used to have rewards on every single product.
And now we've removed that to be able to really target
the rewards that are for products that are delivering
the most value for customers.
So that way, you know, for example, one thing is,
we have drastically increased the rewards
on our eSIM program,
because most of the world is moving to eSIMs on their phone.
And so finding those ways that we are able to reward
our best users like yourself is something that we're doing.
We also do have,
I believe that there is also an affiliate program and we do work with a few influencers
and whatnot as well too.
But I'll let Raul take it from there
if I didn't speak out of turn too much.
No, no, yeah, absolutely.
I think that's kind of like what we're doing.
And I think I can share this, but I'm just going to share that.
We're looking at ways to kind of revamp our referral reward and our referral program.
Hopefully we can do something more on-chain too.
So we are looking into ways of improving this,
but yeah, it's taken a while, so just bear with us.
But yeah, we are looking in ways
to absolutely improve that.
And I think maybe
I think maybe Barath wanted to speak on that,
but I'm not, okay.
I think he's not able to join.
But then, yeah.
Thank you, man.
Great question.
Anyone else?
Hey, guys.
How's it going?
Doing great.
How about you?
Thank you for the space.
It's my first time actually hearing
about Big Trill and I was just
listening.
Oh, sorry.
How's it going?
Can you hear me?
Thomas, I think you
have your speakers.
Thomas, yeah.
It's okay now?
Yes, yes, please.
Sorry.
It's okay.
It's okay.
I always follow Epitrum and I always love it.
And I've been buying and holding.
But just heard about the Bitrefield card today.
And I'm quite interested.
I live in Canada.
Does it work in Canada?
The bitrophil card, unfortunately, no.
As right now, I would say yet, emphasize on that.
Right now, it only works unfortunately on Europe.
However, of course, there's plans to improve that and to reach to other regions.
But unfortunately for now, it's only EU for the card, unfortunately.
Okay, thank you so much. Good luck, guys.
And to clarify, there's different definitions of work.
So right now the BitRefill card is available to EU residents only.
It does work internationally because it is a visa.
It's moving to, right now, it is a visa.
So, yeah, it works where a visa is accepted.
But at this time, it's available to EU residents.
So if you are an EU resident traveling to Canada, you can use it on that front.
And also, I wanted to add that Canada has one of our best catalogs.
So you can always find how to live on crypto in Canada with Idrifield. I'm just looking
at we have Airbnb, Uber,
Hotels.com, and
so on. So I'm sure you
can. Unfortunately, the card doesn't
work, but I'm sure if you
like to live on crypto, there's
something you can find on the
catalog. Thank you.
And thank you,
Urna. I hope I pronounced that correctly.
Is there another question?
The last one.
Yeah, I was going to say, do you guys have the virtual one that, like, you know, even the physical card can make it here and then I can use like virtual one or something that can work internationally?
Let's say I want to order my flight tickets
or things like that.
Or does it have to be like European citizen?
Or resident?
Yeah, the BitRefill card does need to be
an EU resident right now
with the partners that we work with.
But yeah, it is one of our goals.
People have found it incredibly useful.
So again, unfortunately,
for better or worse, we have customers in 170 countries. And so for us, finding a way to make
sure that we are serving each one of those regions with that is a priority for us. And
with that is a priority for us.
And yeah, like for example, one thing, you know, in the US,
there is a non-reloadable virtual visa that is incredibly helpful.
That is, you know, technically only available to folks in the US for US merchants.
But for our big markets with great customers like Canada,
our business development
and partnership team is working day and night to try to find solutions for that because
it's, you know, all markets are important.
Canada is also an incredibly important, you know, has great users that we want to make
sure we can get the best solutions to.
Does anyone else want to...
Thank you, guys.
Sorry, go ahead.
Sorry.
Didn't mean to talk over you.
Does anyone else have a question that they want to ask or chime in here?
Amazing.
Lastly, I think my connection broke.
Sorry, guys.
There was a question about any special kind of like um arrangement that we could
have for onboarding more people to be truthful I think we'd be very happy uh for anybody to um
spread the word uh either in the arbitrary ecosystem or crypto or the wide web3 ecosystem
um as you know like uh uh we are revamping our
because you know like uh uh we are revamping our referral and uh kind of like UGC content you would
get more uh kind of like uh a new version of a referral system possibly sometime in the near
future um and yes we are our eyes and ears are open and we would actively reach out to you guys
um and and yeah hopefully we create great content to
help people live on crypto worldwide. Thank you so much.
Just to add on to what Bharath said, my email, all messages are always open for me. So
if anyone has a suggestion, you can by all means email me, thomas at bitrefill.com.
It should be pretty easy to remember.
This is one of the people emailing me.
The things that are important to them is one of the reasons that we had Arbitrum added. So, yeah, that's good.
Does anyone else have a question or anything else that they want to chime in here with?
There is a third balance card available
for the third question.
Okay.
So I guess with that, we go ahead, Ralph.
Oh, no, I was going to say the same. You can go.
Yeah. So I guess unless anyone else has any other questions or things that they want to go over, we can kind of close out this spaces here and again uh you know we really appreciate all the support from the
arbitram foundation community um you know it is letting us know uh letting us know what what's
important to you how we can be helpful for you living on crypto is uh is one of the best things
because then it leads to the best solutions and um really appreciate everyone joining this space
today and unless anyone has anything else,
we can say, well, we'll see you on chain
and we'll see you in whatever form that you have.
You know, I guess one thing,
and maybe speaking out of turn,
be on the lookout in the coming weeks.
We do have, we've never really focused on Discord.
Most of our customers were more focused on X or Twitter.
And so in the coming weeks, there is a Discord server that if you want a little more direct
contact with our team or just the community of folks that are using BitRefill, we'd encourage
everyone to join that because it should hopefully be full of helpful tips and suggestions of how you can live on crypto and be more on chain.
Yeah, on that note, also, Teddy and Una, I will be DMing you guys with a beautiful gift card.
card um so you can so you guys i mean i know teddy already said that he's a bit refiller
but uh or maybe you can try it uh uh too and then yeah thank you so much everyone uh for for joining
thank you for the good questions uh thank you anas for for uh the support from the arbitrum foundation
from the Arbitrum Foundation.
And yeah, let's continue living on crypto
and living on Arbitrum.
Indeed.
Good conversation, guys.
Pleasure to connect with you all.
And thanks for the good questions.
Thank you, Enos.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
All right.
We'll see all of you later and we'll end this space.
Bye, everyone.
Cheers, everyone.
Bye.
Bye, everyone. Thank you.
