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Bitcoin Builders 🟠 Trading Fungibles & Nonfungibles | Powered by @Arch
Recorded: Aug. 5, 2025 Duration: 1:34:52Space Recording
Short Summary
In a dynamic discussion on crypto trading strategies, panelists explored the evolving landscape of fungible and non-fungible tokens, emphasizing the importance of community engagement, long-term investment in Bitcoin, and the potential for growth in the NFT market. As traders adapt to new trends and technologies, the conversation highlighted the significance of conviction and strategic planning in achieving success in the crypto space.
Full Transcription
Thank you. you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you Hey everybody, good afternoon.
Thanks for jumping in here real quick.
If you wouldn't mind, go ahead and click up at the top and share out the space.
Let's get as many people in here as possible.
I'll start bringing people up that are going to be on the discussion panel and then we'll
get going here in a couple minutes. Thank you. Thanks again, everybody, for coming.
We're still about a minute or so away.
Share around the space if you don't mind.
Appreciate all of the help we can get.
Sharing it out, getting as many people as possible in here for this conversation.
Today we're going to be talking all about trading, trading strategy from fungible tokens
to non-fungible tokens.
We'll get started here in about a minute with the intro.
Anybody else trying to share the space and they don't have the purple thing, they have
the orange thing with the plus button on it?
Yeah, so that's what happens when you host from desktop.
It's weird.
It always does that. You have to post the space and then
pin it up top. Yeah, so all you could do is reply to it, I believe, down below. But I do have it
pinned up top. You can tap on the post and share it out that way. That's just the nature of the
desktop platform versus the regular app. So yeah, if you're
trying to click on the purple pill down at the bottom right, it does not exist hosting from
desktop. You can find the space up at the top, go ahead and tap on it, share it out. And I am going
to go ahead and start our intro sound and we'll get this conversation going. Thanks everybody for being here.
What if you could go back knowing what you know now?
You saw the world change before your eyes.
Music, technology, the internet.
You didn't know what it would become, but you felt it was big.
Then it happened.
You heard about Bitcoin, a new kind of money,
a revolution in finance, and you hesitated. You watched it rise, 10,000, 20,000, 60,000,
more. You told yourself, if only I had known, I would have done things differently. The biggest realization isn't just that Bitcoin won,
it's that it could do so much more. But now you know the truth. Web3 was never meant to be built
elsewhere. It was always meant for Bitcoin. Welcome to the moment you thought you missed.
Welcome back to the beginning. Arch unlocks the future of 1.30 Eastern time.
I'll be joined here shortly, I believe, by our CMO at Arch, Nick. I'm Brian with the Arch team,
and we've got a panel going here, joined us for discussion on trading. We're going to be digging
into trading strategy. So welcome, Nico. Thanks for coming. Bway, Sleepless. I see there's some other
people down in the audience. If you'd like to come up and join the conversation, then you're welcome.
Just click request and we'll be digging into all things trading. I kind of want to start out with
just kind of that biggest, most zoomed out view.
This concept that I've had in my mind about, you know, this conversation is kind of centered around the cycles of crypto.
You know, we're all familiar with, I think that when that comes, you know, that term comes into the conversation, people immediately think of the Bitcoin cycles
for your cycle. And, you know, it's an argument of whether that's going to continue in the future,
but that's not really what I'm referring to. I'm speaking more so about the cycles of trading
crypto, the concept of, you know, Bitcoin versus altcoins uh meme coins obviously we know that nfts they
could be considered to meet uh an alt coin and trade as these like low market cap low supply
type meme coins there's that whole concept but i wanted to start with just this real zoomed out
start with just this real zoomed out view. Where do you guys think? And I think we'll start with
just a very brief intro. I'm going to go to B-Ways first and then Sleepless and then Nico
and then anybody else that comes up to join the conversation. We do have a couple other people
that should be joining us here shortly. I just want to kind of start with that zoomed out view. Where
do you peg yourself in in your thought process as far as how do you define the cycles of crypto?
Does it all start for Bitcoin to you? It kind of seems that way for most people. I know I'm
answering my own question a little bit, but is that where it all
starts for you? Or do you really try to stay even more zoomed out to that macro events level,
different policies with global trading? We've got all the ETFs going on, obviously,
in these last several years. Where do you kind of like anchor yourself when you're trying to trade the cycles or, you know, get in and
out or make decisions that are on that longer timeframe of this
is my long term plan for investing in crypto. I'm gonna
go to B-Ways first. Welcome.
Hey, Brian, thanks for hosting and good to be here with some
legends. Look forward to
conversation. Yeah, this will be great to hear other perspectives as well, because
I'm personally on the kind of longer term focused investors. So I do obviously sometimes get into,
you know, short term metas, etc. But I definitely take this long term view. I'm a very fundamental
ideological believer, to be honest
in crypto so i believe that we go you know as probably many people we go many many multiples
higher uh as an overall crypto industry right and and that starts with bitcoin i mean it's no surprise
um for me to kind of make my investment decisions probably speaking um i do think about cycles sure
yeah right so like you kind of you roughly know where the bear market bottom is and it was pretty Um, I do think about cycles. Sure. Yeah. Right.
So like you kind of, you roughly know where the bear market bottom is.
It was pretty clear.
It was after FTX, for example.
So that's kind of one, um, uh, bookmark essentially.
And then you kind of, um, have to form a thesis for the next four years or so.
That was kind of how I thought about, about things.
Um, and to be honest, it was similar in 2017, in 2017-18 you know um but I've been
a bit more active this cycle so I'm really operating on this four-year-ish or maybe longer
time investment thesis which makes it kind of easy to focus right that always has to be this
uh at least in your mind I think a guidance or one focal point you know uh one core principle
um which for me is for me which for me are um bitcoin
is the most important asset uh we have probably three or four years to make investments here right
maybe a bit longer um and then i think for me what really changed which is what i guess what brought
me ultimately here is um that i got even more focused on just bitcoin and its ecosystem thanks to the you know
the advent of ordinals and you know a ton of other innovation happening on on our chain which i'm
sure we'll talk about so that really made it um in a way very easy for me it's like in any case
you should put 80 of your money in bitcoin right which you know i haven't done but uh you know a
fair bit of bitcoin but now it makes it even easier.
You can put a significant chunk in Bitcoin and then ride the wave of innovation that I find super interesting on Bitcoin itself as well.
So like 80% plus of my capital time and focus is on the Bitcoin ecosystem for the last two plus years now, right?
Which I find super, it's kind of comforting for me at least and then beyond that um i try to stay focused as well so even if you
take this 80 20 approach of like 80 in your key focus area 20 and some other tail end stuff uh
even within those 20 i'm i'm picking like maybe two ecosystems you know so i keep it very uh very
very tight let's say and that might be
like what is the big new player of the cycle like one could argue for example hyper liquid but
whatever you whatever the hell you choose that that thing is right and the other one might be
nfts across chain so that's kind of roughly how i think about it so now have you been that's simple
oh world for uh for very long you know you're you're you know you're talking back to like 2017 era have
you been you know holding and trading crypto since then yeah i got in in 2017 at some point
i mean to be honest probably most of it was towards the end of it like most people i think
that entered that cycle in the kind of november december 2017 era but probably a little bit before as well um yeah i've been into i've been
reading up on crypto since very early actually like studied um i mean it came out when i was
studying economics and finance etc in university and had some uh some how do you say it, anarchistic friends, you know, in early university, you know, kids that are 18, 19 years old.
And I had a few friends who were reading up on Bitcoin. This is 2010, you know, 2010.
So that is actually really, really early.
And so we were reading the white papers and had some friends buying.
But at the time, it was more of a curiosity, right? We were just, you know, this is interesting and we're spending every day of the week
learning about modern economic theory
and the history of money
and what is money actually in practice and in theory.
And, but at the time, I mean, I cannot say like,
I built conviction, right?
It was like, what is this asset that's worth almost nothing?
And it really only came back on my uh radar yeah that
kind of 2017 era you know so kind of um obviously missed a trick there well that probably would have
paper handed you know and then 2017 bought a bunch i think i focused on life and work normal life
normal work for a couple years through that bear market so just holding essentially bitcoin i think
some bitcoins from ethereum probably some litecoin you you know, all the kind of all the coins from 2017 era, a few other things.
And then before I pause, I really got really deep into crypto and NFTs again.
Thanks to NFTs, you know, it's actually been the main pull into the industry again for me in 2021.
You know, seeing the people sale and, you know, there. And in 2021, seeing the Beeple sale,
and there was definitely some new energy around the block.
And then from NFTs,
they went into pretty much everything again.
And now I'm just full-time being fairly degenerate,
but also making some investments in the space, et cetera.
So that's my background.
Yeah, I definitely want to come back to that concept of how we've kind of evolved in the altcoin realm.
Like, you know, you're talking about, you know, the infamous ICO days, the infamous ICO.
And then also there's, you know, we've gotten to the meme coins are like an altcoin unto themselves.
So I want to come back to that concept. but let's go over to Sleepless.
And Chris, thanks for joining us.
I'll come to you in a minute.
We're just kind of starting with this big zoomed out view of how do we define the cycles of crypto?
Where does your thought process sort of start as far as your long-term investment thesis?
Are you really focused on like Bitcoin as the leader, Bitcoin, you know, dominance,
or do you zoom out more to like macro and like traditional finance or, you know, what's your
thought process? So I'm going to go to sleepless next and then Chris will come to you and we'll
see if we can get nico back up here
in a second hey brian thanks for having this and thanks for sending out the invitation it was a
pleasure to come up and talk about these kinds of things uh but my story is a little different you
know i joined crypto in the height of 2021 so it was i believe the last week of december which
you guys recall, you had
about a three month grace period until everything kind of came crashing down. But I lived in a very
large house in college. I had roommates that had minted Neo Tokyo Genesis for free and they were
printing left and right. And I was like, all right, I'm tired of all this. Like it's time to figure it
out. So I wasn't even really thinking about Bitcoin at the
time. Even at the time, even one Ethereum seemed too expensive. And I couldn't believe people had
20 ETH PFPs and all this craziness. So I kind of started diving into the Ethereum trenches,
joined different groups there, ended up doing pretty well with some ETH NFTs and calls.
And eventually I met, he's actually in the audience, but neighbor favor in a server. And he came up to me and was like, dude, there's this thing called
ordinals. They're like NFTs on Bitcoin. No one's talking about them. I think we should really check
them out. And he sent me the link for the opium mint, which at the time was free. And if you
recall, they ran like 0.7 BTC, puppet airds, the whole deal from there. So we kind of went and created Taproot Alpha, which is one of the longest standing Bitcoin Alpha groups.
We were blessed to host.
What do we host? It was the Friends and Founders Mixer.
It was right after the Inscribing Vegas event.
We met a ton of people there, gave out some shirts.
So it's kind of a blessing to have built all of that.
I personally made most of my gains doing degen plays.
I found pups at two cents, the token, multiple different ordinals, runes when we were early to that.
So that was always kind of like my area of expertise.
We developed a lot of different like bot and wallet trackers.
And I was at like the unique age.
I'm 25, I'm 26 now, where I kind of like lived in this entire world of technology. So some of the
memes that I saw and some of the things where I was like, oh no, like I get how this goes. This
could be a good narrative that maybe some of the older crowd wouldn't see. You know, some things
I would just tell people, hey, trust me, it's stupid enough to work. So that's kind of been my
focus. It's been a bigger thing.
But after I made a decent amount of Bitcoin and started looking at things differently and learning more about finance and the system, we realized all roads leads back to Bitcoin.
And at the end of the day, even today, it's still holding $113,500 in a pretty dead market.
I mean, things have been dead for us, but I've looked at this past year
and I'm learning as I go.
Like I haven't even had a full four years
or eight years to speak on what a cycle is
or how geopolitics affects it.
But I've been playing a lot more defensively,
you know, capital preservation,
hold as much BTC as possible,
do as little as possible to sell into USD.
If you have to, small bits
and you make sure it's covered,
make sure you find some accountants and stuff if you're off ramping. But I've looked at it as a
preservation, but we're also blessed in our server that we have people in so many different facets
of crypto. We have a guy who's named Prometheus. He's a fantastic leverage trader. He's literally
live streaming every day, teaching people how to do that, if that's your avenue. We have people in
the shit coins, we have people everywhere. So it's really finding, I think, a couple of things that
you're good at. But when it gets dead, and you see people are doing things elsewhere, you also can't
be scared to step out a little bit and learn. So it's really, we take all of this is no matter
where the market goes, we've surrounded ourselves by very smart people who have done very well with the things that they do. And they're not going anywhere because, again, they just want
more Bitcoin. So that's kind of how I looked at this, at least. Yeah, I love that. We love
Taproot Alpha at Arch. Love that community. You guys are really awesome. I love how,
because we did a little Discord call with you guys just to get to know the community a little bit more, introduce Arch.
I love those kind of like insular type of event communities where you all hang out together.
You spend a lot of time getting to know people and kind of building up that trust.
One more question I want to throw at you.
You're being in an alpha type group and trying to be involved. I find myself, as I try to get
into those sort of circles and trying to find the latest alpha, searching for it on the timelines,
obviously there's group chats and discords and telegrams.
How do you balance the sheer amount of things that you could be paying attention to? Is it community? Is it people who are there with you, grinding, learning with you? I know you said you guys focus on education as well, streaming and trying to
teach people how to understand indicators from the chart. Obviously, there's other ways to
get information about where things are going to go and trying to take your time in the market and
spend it as wisely as possible. Do you guys really think about, you know, just trying to focus on what you're good at and then leaning on other people to
learn from or get further into like gathering information from other people and leaning on
community that way? I think it's a little bit of kind of both there. You know, there's things that I'm good at that I'm certainly not good at.
And, you know, there's no shock about that.
I'm not the best leverage trader.
I'm not the best at meme coins.
I'm a complete gambler.
But there are people who are good at that.
And, you know, we can lean on each other for things like that, which is great.
But, I mean, at the end of the day, we're an ordinals-focused community.
I would say, like, most of these people have been with us for over two years now.
I think the server is like two and a half years old.
So most of these guys came from ETH with us from other groups.
So we've all been with each other for a very long time now.
So there is like that level of trust.
And, you know, we also have a ranking system.
So kind of how I became a caller was I was given an opportunity and a
platform, which is very hard as like an up and coming account. So with Taproot, we have multiple
people in Bitcoin because we were just in Ordinal's hub. Like there was no place to talk about it at
the time. So we were like, hey, come join. We'll do our best to vet it. And, you know, we did the
best that we could. But multiple people like C um merita like all these different people who have become like big influencers uh we let them post because i'll be like okay
if you make four good posts and people make a lot of money and you're helping people will give you
like the bronze role and that'll let you be able to post in like bigger channels and then you know
if you go on our server you'll see it's like lifo and everyone they all have these different ranks
because they've stepped up in different ways that's benefited the overall community.
So we kind of encourage things like that.
We want to recognize people and also give them a platform because there's things that I'll miss.
And there's things that Naver will miss.
And there's things that LIFO might miss.
But at the end of the day, it's kind of ridiculous.
I'm sure you guys all saw the Libitboos that just came out.
But we got pinged about that in like our three plus holder chat um unbearish bear came in and was like hey
take a look at this and some of our mints were in the first hundred like we started minting within
the first hundred of them and like that's a dj and you never know where it's gonna go but we also
know like certain people who work with certain people. So we can kind of assume like, hey, if this guy's involved with something, it likely means
that these other people that usually will support their projects are also involved.
And if they're involved and, you know, you can kind of see where that train goes and
we track all the wallets, we track all the social stuff.
So we use that as an edge, which is different than traditional trading, but it's kind of
the social game we play here.
Yeah, for sure. So got nico back up i think i'm going to throw the mic over to you and then we'll we'll come to chris what you got are we still are we still on the same question yeah yeah the
question for the big picture so all right every morning i get up i sit on the throne, and I look at three things, all right?
DXY, the dollar, and SPY, literally.
And they're all kind of, well, SPY is kind of correlated, but DXY and Bitcoin are.
So, the DXY can actually predict quite a bit just by looking at it.
Like, if it completely dumps or
if it like or if it goes up high like really really high that means we're at war but anyway
you know uh that's the big picture i look at now with the ordinals and all that stuff
i was pretty degenerate with that stuff i did some nice trades pepinals i minted pepinals i
don't know if anybody knows about that one.
I minted it for like $4, and they went up.
I don't remember.
I just remember the dollar value.
It was like fucking $2,000.
Like, I couldn't believe what was going on with that.
And I sold most of them at like $400 or $500.
And then all of a sudden, I wake up the next day,
and they're like $2,000 each.
I'm like, I have one left.
Like, what am I going to do here?
I didn't sell it like an idiot, you know?
But anyway, that was a nice trade.
Or mint, whatever you want to call that.
And then the Solana memes and all that.
I'll be fair with you guys.
I was pretty good at spotting memes because... And every time I looked at it, I was like,
we're just going into idiot idiocracy slowly, you know?
So, like, just because some of the memes that are out there are just, I don't even understand why people, like, think of it as a meme.
But anyway, you know, everybody just, like, piles into some shit and it's complete shit.
It's not even like a real meme.
It's just complete shit.
So, when it comes to that stuff, it's like like it's so weird i i tell people to avoid it
i actually said it i said the last time i was here i prefer leverage trading over anything
yeah i'm holding a couple of things but leverage trading is really at this point
not in the beginning of the even though at the beginning it's good too
at this point where we're at just because you don't know where things are going um i would leverage trade and i like
i'm going to mention nfts and ordinals i'm going to go back to that for a second i do think that
there's a run coming for nfts and ordinals i just don't know how good it's going to be on ordinals and
i don't think the old stuff is gonna is gonna do anything i like they'll go up a little bit but i
really think everybody's gonna go for the shining thing like because everybody has like add in the
space they don't remember what happened yesterday so I feel like the new mints are gonna do obviously do a lot better and we'll see from there and then
art art I don't know if it's gonna start at the beginning of the nft run or the end of the nft
run that's kind of like that's like a hit or miss I know there's gonna be some art pieces coming out in the middle but usually at some point it's
nothing but art and there's no like no no uh like nothing going on with collections at all i don't
know if anybody remembers that but there is like an hour run during a literal art run like before
or after ordinals so that's just the way i look at everything. Yeah, it's definitely interesting to see how we've evolved and, I guess, matured as an ecosystem.
Although it seems like riskier and riskier assets are being used as longer term holds.
And people are just comfortable having these.
So, I mean, it's definitely something that i find
interesting and i i want to come back to that uh in a minute but i do want to go to chris um
specifically because you know sleepless you were talking earlier about the whole education
aspect um anybody who's been in crypto for uh you know, if you come and stay for any length of time, you quickly figure out just how much there is to learn and to always be learning.
everything you do is kind of based on that aspect of learning and trying to like pull out
better information so that you can first wrap your head around it. That's part of your creative
process, I think you told me at one point. And you're active on YouTube and like a bunch of
different platforms. So, you know, for you, I find it really interesting to have that,
I guess, approach a little bit. But do you find that as sort of an advantage? And kind of where
we're starting is this like zoomed out macro view, like where do you peg yourself into
your long term understanding? Where does it start at?
Is it Bitcoin?
Is it macroeconomics or traditional finance?
Or maybe you came in from Ethereum and that was your bigger conviction on ramping.
Where does it all start for you in that zoomed out beginning thought process level?
Sure. Yeah, thanks for having me, Brian. Can you hear me fine?
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay, sweet. Yeah. When I got into crypto heavier in 2021, I kind of like explored a
little bit in 2020. So I guess I'm late compared to a lot of the like OG Bitcoin now ordinals guys.
I was like watching YouTube videos and just a lot of the people that made content would skip over steps and it would frustrate the hell out of me.
They would be like, oh, just use this wallet to go to this DEX.
And I'm like fresh noob and I'm like, well, how do I get the money to that wallet?
Because there's no way at that time you didn't have like Moonpay and the other ways to just like load a wallet from your credit card or whatever. So I'm just like, all right, well, you're, you're going from A to Z, you know, and you're not telling me the in between. So when I did like go in and study that's like how to do the basic stuff, eventually more advanced stuff. I'm like, well, I want to make content one day. And I'm going to, I want to answer the questions that I had. Because when I was listening to people and watching people, they were skipping over the small stuff that it's just second nature to them.
And I understand why you would skip over it, especially like on Twitter, because a lot of people on Twitter know.
But a lot of people on YouTube and other platforms like that might be their first time ever using a DEX or ever doing a swap or ever like doing anything.
So you have to like literally explain it like they're five because like it's starting from scratch.
So that's one of the things that got me into crypto content specifically.
I've always like done content.
And yeah, like you said, like a lot of the stuff, if I'm making content around it, it kind of makes me like know the ins and outs of it.
It sort of forces me to like have this, you know, deeper understanding of it because I don't want to get wrong. And I don't want to like leave people astray or anything like that. So typically, that what the things I do
are pretty in the open, because when I'm doing them, I'm like, I am making content about them.
So yeah, I think that I don't really know the baseline question here. But that's kind of how
I got into like crypto is how I got into I got into deeper aspects, layers of it.
Now in Ordinals, Runes, Bitcoin, DeFi.
I worked for not just Pizza Ninjas, but I worked for Bitcoin Frontier Fund,
which is Trevor's fund that invests in 80-plus startups that are building on Bitcoin.
I know Xverse is on there, Bitflow, Liquidium, lots of others.
And there are strategic investments as well.
So during the almost year that I work for the fund, that like increased my understanding of Bitcoin DeFi. You know, like what's possible on Bitcoin, where it's going, this debate of exactly what Bitcoin is and how it should be used outside of just ordinals.
But like these like protocols and builders are actually like building on it. One admiring thing out of that year was,
it was 2023, maybe. So it was like a really bad year for the market. And there was people risking
their whole net worth to like go all in on Bitcoin DeFi as far as like building products and projects
and all that. And I always thought that was very admirable because I'm not a very risk-on guy
when it comes to large sums of money.
But you had people quitting their jobs to go all in to build on Bitcoin DeFi,
and that was super cool.
But yeah, man, again, I'm sorry if I misunderstood the original question,
but that's kind of, I guess, some of my answers.
Yeah, I definitely want to come back to you about some of the, you know, like cross chain
type, I guess research is really a good word for it.
You're, you know, you're on the level of like, researching to the point of creating content
that is very, very finished and well baked, which is awesome.
You know, I like your platform a lot.
It's interesting to me to see the differences between YouTube content versus Twitter content
versus TikTok content and what works and why it works. But that's kind of a different conversation for another day.
I want to throw it over to Mush.
You came up here.
You want to jump in on this topic?
Yeah, I'd love to.
Can you guys hear me?
I'm on my desktop.
I'm clear.
Yeah, perfect.
I think the education part is like super important
because there's such a learning curve
when you come into Bitcoin,
even if you come from another chain,
like Solana, Ethereum, those types of things. When I first got into
crypto, like actually into crypto, I didn't understand the centralization of Bitcoin and
why it was so important. And I think if people start really getting into the only thing with
onboarding and education is it takes time and content is so important for that, especially engaging content to be able to teach people this kind of stuff.
So first of all, Chris, thank you for all the content you do do.
The second thing I wanted to bring up is back to ordinal.
So I have this theory.
OK, I'm a big nerd.
OK, I like Pokemon cards.
OK, and back in the day for like even like the original pokemon card pack was like what like
two bucks three bucks or whatever it was when you bought it now they're worth so much more money
i think with ordinals you know and this is further down the road i think with ordinals even like the
rugged projects that came out i think they'll still have some validity and see some kind of
engagement because the best part about ordinals is it's actually all the data is on chain you know
what i mean it's always going to be there you're always going to be able to see it so i really
think like in the future like maybe not right away but in the future i think people will start
valuing these these collectibles as actual collectibles and attaching it to some kind
of emotion that they had when they purchased it um that's just my thoughts and i hope that's
completely on topic i kind of went off
what Nico was saying, but also with what Chris was saying. But I do think as we keep growing,
the ecosystem keeps growing and more utility keeps coming out for ordinals and innovators come in.
And you start building these things that were on other chains that are now available on Bitcoin.
I think we're going to see an increase in attention on ordinals because I do personally think ordinals holds a lot more value than your
average NFT, if you will. Because, and I mean, like Elon said this multiple times, but like it's
a IPFS source, right? Like anything can be deleted, anything can be changed. They can go and change
the metadata to have it. Like there's even been rugs on ethereum right where the guys have minted out and then they go and they change this
the the image to like fuck you i rugged you pardon my language but that's what happened so like
you know like i think the real utility that bitcoin really has and the education needs to
revolve around the decentralization and that storage mechanism that it can't be changed.
Right. And how important hash rate is and multiple miners being induced into the ecosystem and more miners coming in.
Because the more miners we have from different organizations, the better so that it can't be capitalized.
So I hope I touched on it, Ryan.
And thank you for letting me guys up and shout out to Arc for all the work that you guys have been doing.
You guys have really been pushing this ecosystem.
Oh, appreciate that.
Yeah, appreciate the support.
No, you're absolutely touching on the thought thread.
A little bit ago, I was thinking when B-Ways was introducing,
and I'll pose this question to you, or B-Ways, if you want to jump in.
This is kind of what I was going to ask about a little
earlier. It seems to me that as we've come further, we know that NFTs and everything started to come
into existence very early in crypto, even though they didn't start to pop off until obviously 2021
is the big year that everyone thinks of with
Bored Apes and everything that happened with all the CryptoPunks run up and everything.
But it seems to me like there's been a bit of a maturity in the way that speculation
is happening.
And what I mean by that is speculation in the past when it came to
crypto was just purely number go up speculation. It was like, I'm going to buy this coin and I'm
going to sell it for more later. And then we got to this point where it's like, okay, we're
speculating on the utility of tokens. And then with NFTs, it was like it really got into speculating about
utility. But there's this like, totally imagined, like we say we can do this stuff and this
wizardry. And supposedly, you can do a lot of it with smart contracts and stuff on Ethereum and
Solana and a lot of other chains. And we've things you know like built with crypto utility but
it seems like ordinals has just like entirely changed uh what's going on with that whole
speculation curve where it's not just speculating on number go up there's this like more maturity to
speculating about the assets themselves what they offer different aspects
of how it's on bitcoin is that sort of like your thought process process about how we've come
these past like several years mush or bways or anybody if you want to jump in on this
i actually wanted to go ahead i wanted to reinforce mush is what mush is saying uh and i'll even go into
what you're like what you're talking about too but uh i'm holding i don't know how many few
hundred on-chain nfts and two of them they've been working the entire time they have like really
not big projects but kind of difficult ones to do, right?
And then the other one, it gets sales here and there, but the founders know where to be found and whatever.
But because they're on chain and like, it's not going to like, you're not going to get totally rugged. Like what happened with Nike, they didn't pay the server fees and everybody ended up with nothing.
fees and everybody ended up with nothing uh but so here's the thing even like these layer twos
on bitcoin because they're on chain and what's happening on it i think that might be a thing like
that might end up being a thing too because i really do believe that art should be on chain
if it's actual art and now with protocols let's see what happens pretty much i don't i'm not i
can't predict that but i am very interested in that part as well yeah it's like the back to
bitcoin umbrella it fits under that umbrella of getting back to bitcoin and that has value in a
lot of different ways mushy we're gonna jump in on this. So I think just communities alone have value, if you will.
Like you can have 10, 20 people that come together and really push something, right, that they believe in.
And I totally agree with you.
You're complete right on the speculation.
And I do think that like PumpFun and these Solana tokens that have come out have really trained, changed the dynamic,
especially back in the day where it was like buy and hold to the moon.
And now it's like buy and try to get a 20% increase.
I do think though, like the communities have power, you know,
and they,
if they band together and they start utilizing that power,
it can really push things forward.
Now, so I'm trying not to shill here, but like, for instance, you're talking about like L2s and different L1s and that kind of stuff.
Like we built Stakeit like on top of Bitcoin.
So like we literally use like Bitcoin's mempool to track everything where that happens within our site.
And confirmations have to go on before we even start staking or start doing these types of things so like our software is built on top of
bitcoin right and we use it to be able to track all these things and make sure that like it's like
a secondary layer of security for us if you will um i do think though that we're going to see a
different era i don't know what kind of era it's going to be especially like i do think ordinals and nfts are going to have a comeback and like pudgy penguins
is like a prime example of like what you can do if you raise funds and you have the right leadership
and you put your mind to something and you push something right and that community has supported
luca throughout everything right and i do believe that he's done things really good,
like really right from airdrops
to empowering the community
to always making sure the parties are good at IRL events,
all those types of stuff.
So I think if you combine everything that I just said
with the power of the community
and empowering that community,
I do think that you're going to see
a different era this time. I do think
like ordinals, NFTs, when they do start to take off here, it's going to be different than before.
And I don't know, I can't predict the future. My name is Mush, but I still can't predict the future.
Okay, you guys, as much as I'd like to think I can. But I do think that we're going to see a
different era. I think we're going to see communities come together. do think that we're gonna see a different era i think we're gonna see communities
come together and i think we're gonna see and going back to even cross-chain things i think
we're gonna see a lot of chains start working with each other because some chains are actually
better than other chains if you will for different things that you want to utilize right so yeah i
hope that answers your question sorry i'm multitasking at the same time, dude. You're fine. Yeah, so it's almost as if like now on Bitcoin
or one aspect that you're next to a little bit
is this concept that the token is the asset now.
It's not just a representation,
or at least that's where my mind goes
as one of the bottom lines that makes
at least non-fungible tokens but also the fungible tokens um you know you can think about it that way
as a more like concrete but still digital asset you know it's it's not it doesn't have anything
physical in reality but it's still tied to bitcoin, which we know being proof of work and all of Bitcoin's fundamentals is something.
It's not this fugazi or vaporware that we're buying into or thinking about.
out is that how you guys think about it a little bit as well i think uh and interesting with
Is that how you guys think about it a little bit as well?
ordinals in particular if you look at it right now um on coin gecko i don't even think that
there's a single bitcoin project within the top 10 nfts right now uh the past month or so we've
seen a wild amount of crypto punk sales like eight million dollar plus sweeps hoodies getting bought
off the floor um so i mean that that alone like the underrepresentation and what i would say is
undervaluation of the bitcoin ecosystem and the overall like nft alt market that it is um i think
there's some legs up to be had there but i mean in reality like a lot of these projects too we've
been around like for a long time like the ones that are still here and still putting work in like
node monks omb pupp, pizza ninjas.
Like a lot of these, a lot of these projects have played their hands, you know, and some of them didn't even have much to speculate on other than ruins and ruin airdrops.
And then that happened.
And then some communities stayed around too.
But I think it's good that we've gotten over that, that initial curve of, Hey, like,
let's just get these to speculated on because now it's more of people are communities that they like that they vibe with that they've had fun with that IRL
representations um again not to show anything but the puppets is one of those projects where
they didn't have a war chest but they had like I think it's like six around six to seven people
who like really work together and somehow continue to put on like massive events at IRL representation
you go and you see merch everywhere, like the whole race car thing.
And I think that was a pretty good, I mean, ideal of a community coming together there.
But overall, just without seeing any Bitcoin projects in the top 10,
like that's just pretty crazy to me.
So I own a little bit of everything.
So I'm happy for any project to take the lead here.
So some do have some considerable war chests. And it would be nice to see all of that deployed
back into the eco.
But hey, high hopes.
Yeah, for sure.
B-Ways, I saw you unmuted there.
Yeah, yeah, I'm just going to jump in.
I maybe look at this a little bit differently on the speculation question in that I think
speculation is still rife everywhere, be honest in crypto and i think
what you're describing is like a i mean brian what you're describing is like less speculation
maybe in the bitcoin side it's really just a focus on building right because i think we did go through
our high speculation phase when everyone was coming in from other ecosystems for like two
months you know like early last year it was was really just January through early March or something,
call it two, three months of speculation.
And then what is left behind is like, it's not a wasteland,
but it's essentially builders and some, well, obviously some bag holders, right?
Which then kind of destroys the vibes a little bit,
but also beyond that, really people that believe long-term in the ecosystem.
And I find some parallels with the solana ecosystem after ftx collapse right so which
happened whatever early november 2022 and then you know everyone's making fun of them right
no one really believes that much anymore you know people from certainly from the ethereum
side calling solana dead and really what was left in early 23 is like the really you know, people from certainly from the Ethereum side calling Solana dead. And really what was left in early 23 is like the really, you know, Solana believers, you
know, the hardcore ones, the people that had a vision that it would survive from single
digit bucks.
Right.
So I did feel some similarities with kind of what we've been going through.
Call it like 2023 Solana is like not too diss dissimilar from you know this year the last 12
months on uh on the bitcoin ecosystem just because of the amount of the types of people that are still
around and so we're kind of in this post and pre-speculation window in a in a sense you know
which is cool i think um so i don't think i think the speculators will come when there's more to
speculate on it's i don't think they're gone per se like people are still around and people will speculate like speculators will speculate
um so that's maybe one comment and and then you have like yeah the difference between the
traders and the collectors that's kind of an OMB meme that there's actually truth to it
which we've seen evolve uh over the last couple years you know like certainly since Solana memes
took off which is late 23 or something so over the last two years you know like certainly since solana memes took off which is
late 23 or something so over the last two years um a lot of the speculation that happened in you know
nfts in 21 and a bit in 22 moved to the the purest form of speculation right which is meme coins and especially on fast chains you know which is also kind of just ties into like how society
has evolved right like and i don't think you can even call you know bitcoin fungible trading trading right like it's uh it's really just
it's actually more investing or long-term speculation um so people are used to that kind
of solana crazy high speed um quick rotation out of it so that's kind of one side which i think
you know we should talk about right i think arch will probably contribute to at least bringing the bitcoin ecosystem closer to that on the on the
fungible trading side i think very exciting prospects for for all of us it doesn't have to
be solana but it can be something closer than what it is now right i think that's important but then
you have this total non or almost total non-speculation segment indeed like to sleepless
point and a few others
here uh which you know is on the high-end art side right like I don't think you have I'm sure
you have like high level speculation like by big accounts on punks you know like these sweeps are
not necessarily all to to stack them away for seven generations so there's definitely still
speculation but it takes um if if it's like a high value collectible item it takes
a lot of speculative speculative public out of it right because a lot of these people that speculate
are doing it with small checks and not with like 50k or 100k dollars right so i think you have that
kind of part of the market evolving and um and you can see that even on the ethereum nft side
it's really only 10 projects or collectors or artists doing well right now.
And it's very art focused. And so my idea about for Ordinals is the same, actually.
So it's a lesson I learned in the first major NFT cycle is that, you know, it's better to focus on the top tier assets in your ecosystem.
And then, you know, play around a bit or collect some small artists as well, of course.
But in terms of most of your stack and capital for the long term,
that's kind of what you want to do.
So yeah, that's kind of a few different thoughts here.
But that's kind of where those go.
You're kind of trending more toward like conviction,
conviction as opposed to speculation.
You know, people, people who are speculating are in and out.
They're buying, you know, they're buying something for a reason, for the number to go up,
with the intention to sell it after it goes up.
But when there's conviction and belief in, whether it's the ecosystem,
the underlying token, the team, whatever it is,
it is, it seems that when you're on the conviction side of things, that's where you're in that
it seems that when you're on the conviction side of things,
more either collector or buy and hold, which is interesting.
Like people have basically been collecting Bitcoin for, you know, ever since it's existed.
So you can really even think of it that way as they're collectors of coins.
And it is a bit of a more I guess long-term conviction play rather than
just pure speculation a little bit do you do you guys feel like the uh it's that way in like by
ecosystem and I kind of want to come to Chris a little bit on this because I know you spend some
time in a lot of different ecosystems with, you know, being a content creator and
creating crypto content. You've looked into a lot of different chains. Is this something that you see
in as, you know, being like a whole crypto thing? Or is there a big difference when you go from
one ecosystem to another, like from these early start starting blockchains versus like the
longer existing ones like ethereum and solana and whatnot i didn't hear the original question i heard
like after like the ecosystems and everything else after that well we're kind of like touching
on this difference between pure speculation and that seems to be tied to
really, really high velocity trading versus ecosystems where you don't always have that
pure speculation. There's collectors, there's buy and hold. It seems to be a little bit more
like long term when it comes to the people that are
trading in those different ecosystems
i think nico can probably he raised his hand go ahead nico uh so what i'm gonna say i wanted to
say it before but i didn't get a chance to um because this comes back to kind of what you're
saying and with speculation and stuff i i'm actually speculating that whatever you're going
to call them on the layer twos i guess ordinals or nfts or whatever i think that's when that's
going to push that market uh the the other markets like solana and the other chains like solana and ethereum and arbitrum now uh i don't
know if you know but arbitram just uh linked a layer two for robin hood they just did bring like
so many traders in from the traditional market but they're gonna have access to pretty much everything
now uh so it all depends on what's to happen in the future and how they onboard people
because i'm seeing a lot of the money on layer twos and it's spread thin instead of like just
on ethereum so i really think that a layer two on bitcoin would actually bring nfts back or whatever you want to call them ordinal because they'll be able to get to where maybe solana is or well actually if
if the tps that you guys are talking about is correct yeah you guys are going to be
like past solana i believe but uh or right there so yeah we'll see yeah interesting i personally think that i mean getting in when i got into ethereum nfts when
those trenches were still alive uh we used a lot of minting bots and trading bots and just because
it was it was high velocity i feel like a lot of the times you're in and out of stuff i mean it was
also a dead market at the time ethereum was like $1,000. But Bitcoin
and getting into Bitcoin was interesting after that because naturally it's slower. You're waiting
15 sometimes. I mean, we were really hitting the mempool hard, like sometimes upwards of an hour
just for things to confirm. And that naturally had a huge learning curve to it, which originally
shied many people away. But if you had just taken the time i mean it was
also there's plenty benefits with having longer block times you know eventually we found out
sniping and things like that but when it's gotten to the point now everything is so like user
friendly like i've even onboarded like my buddy who i'm going to be his best man like for his
like birthday i told him to download an expert's wallet send him a whole whole bunch of random things. And now he's texting me every day.
He's like, oh, I just bought another thousand dollars worth of Bitcoin.
So people really just want to have fun and they don't want to think too hard.
But when you do think hard, that really is where the money comes from half the time.
But speaking on conviction and slower times, I think all of my massive plays, like the ones that kind of put me where I'm at today, they were all like four to five month holds.
Pups, for example, $200,000 market cap to a billion or whatever that was.
It took about four and a half months or five months.
Puppets, the same thing, four or five months.
OMBs, same deal. everything like that you know the people who really that were early and they believed in the vision or the projects or the narrative or had conviction for whatever weird reason and and
stuck for those trades as long as they knew when to comfortably exit and not get caught up in the
euphoria um did pretty well uh i definitely should have egged some more things but you know when
you're uh when you're drowning in that you don't really realize where your head's not on straight
but i think conviction with targets is a good thing.
If you have conviction, it means that you have a thesis.
And I don't believe you should buy something without a thesis.
I agree.
It's a bit of a spectrum between the pure speculation and the conviction place.
Speculation on a different different timeline in a sense.
And it's the same with collecting.
It's a bit of a blur between trading and collecting.
Do I need dozens of OMBs or does anyone need dozens of OMBs or dozens of XYZ collection
purely for the collecting of it?
Some really might, right? Some really want to have dozens of them to give purely for the collecting of it some really might right some really want to
have dozens of them to give over to all their different grandchildren and great-grandchildren
but I think most people will be honest to themselves and say that there's an element of
speculation there as well uh even though the time frame is just different right uh so I think yeah
for now in the Bitcoin ecosystem for sure like it just hasn't been rewarding I think for almost
anyone to to trade so to say right
a short-term trade whether it's on non-fungibles or fungibles right for almost 12 months that has
been maybe changing a little bit in the last days so i think naturally the the kind of activity and
the people around are going to be the ones that are you know the high conviction longer term uh
thinking ones or long-term buyer ones and it actually, that is actually not a big group of people across the space.
You know, I think it's still, I don't know the proportion is, but I think
this may be only like, I wouldn't exaggerate.
It's probably only a few thousand people, right.
Who are in it to collect NFTs long term for the art, you know, really for the,
for the joy of it.
And, uh, and then on the, on the kind of fungible side, I mean, there's been pretty much no one, right?
Like it's, it's me and like seven other people, right.
Or maybe the people in the space here, you know, like a hundred people that want
to hold these coins for, uh, for the cultural value and the long-term emetic
value, uh, which obviously we believe there will be value to that, right?
Speculative value to it later on. But, uh on but uh but you know it's that's kind
of the state of the ecosystem right now for better and for worse you know i i kind of like it but
obviously with the belief that at some point you know things are easier to trade and that will
bring more people on board and you know being early or retaining conviction in in the face of uh you
know obviously lack of belief and epitaphs being written right that uh that does
pay off if you uh very asymmetrically if we are if we are correct so yeah i think right now the
best way because like i said earlier about i've been playing defensively because you're right
since january i mean pretty much since literally january 20th after trump coin came out or the 19th
like the whole on on chain degen market just died like that was it you know it's
pretty much been been just dry since then but the predictable ways at least in bitcoin if you're
for ordinals which is what i can really speak on right now if you want to at least have a shot at
doing something well it's really just like save the sats if you like a community you get it on
discount on the red days but like those quick flips like for example there there were a couple
the past few months that like if you were just paying attention and following the right people and within like the
right groups like you could have gotten into some things pretty early like anytime i will see like
a reputable dev that we've known from one way or another from the someone that's attached to
something that's making like cb spears for example like he's his reputation in the space so you know
that if he's posting some dgen thing like yeah you might not be able to flip it tomorrow but there you go that's a speculative
project um so like there are and same with like the alchemist mint and things like that that was
like a new form of a token like dmt stuff when it all came out so if you really just kind of hold
your bags and you wait and they'll come you know people are building cool things and we're all
sitting here twiddling our thumbs um like it'll happen. And it happened right now. And I think people
that are buying the Libibus are speculating on whatever new Merkle tree NFT format they
made there. So that like, I would say that that's a speculative play right there that
that happened, but they happen, you know, it happened four days ago and all you have
to do is just follow the right devs and they go up in spaces get in early and you have a pretty good shot wait i have a
question here what are they using merkle tree for in nfts uh i don't know like the entire basically
they they found a way to store four kb worth of data in a sat or something and they're using like it has a depth of 128 merkle
trees and like or something like that or it's like a depth of 120 i don't know the technical
stuff man i just saw the tweets and started throwing money at it so um but uh i mean if
you just look at cb spears's account and he has a whole explanation for the whole thing and um
lifo life of fifo made a tool that
allowed people to wrap it and then the people over at sad flow and magic eden decided to index i mean
i think like there's still 7 000 on index so you know be careful not suggesting anyone's buying
anything but um you know they they found a new way a new cool thing they said hey this is a new
form of inscription try it out it's like the same things when stamps happen it's the same thing when you know they're just trying to play the whole narrative
of it's completely immutable because it won't be prunable or something but uh yeah kind of fun
little experiment yeah they can't it's it they're going through the filters that you can't like that
to me that's what that's what i've understood as being like the basis of the entire concept was just a way to get through the filtering that's been happening. Right. Because they entered like a hackathon and got, I think't know how many people are on the team, but that's the person
from the team that I discovered. STUTXO is their handle. And I think they're working on, you know,
building out more of the project like right now as we speak. But one thing that I noticed that I
think is analogous to a lot of the other things that we're kind of talking about that
get to that level of conviction play. I think it's interesting. And I'm curious, like,
what indicators you guys would look at. But what I see is that early, early ecosystem development happening over again.
As soon as ordinals started, we started to create tooling around them. And you can even think of a
spreadsheet and trading on spreadsheets as tooling for trading ordinals because it's just somebody
that created something to support other people in their trading
or themselves or whatever it is. And it doesn't have to be this fully sophisticated, built-out
product for it to be effective. We can have super effective, really early ecosystems that are
trading super actively. And that's the thing that I noticed
about LibitBoo. So I don't know what you guys think about that whole concept. What's the
indicator that let you know early on that this is something that I might throw into? I know
B-Ways, I think it was you mentioned Charlie being one of the people that was paying attention to it um so there's there's that aspect of people you know people you're noticing or
people that you follow that you trust obviously is one aspect yeah i don't think i said charlie
but yeah great great dude oh it's like and uh i met him before he's he's definitely great great
energy you know yeah but it speaks to a before he's he's definitely great great energy you know
yeah but it speaks to a point right it's uh definitely the builder energy
continuing when everything else is quiet then then the builders are actually the most important
indicator to me because the timeline will be really negative you know for months on end and
fight in fighting and you know we've all been there i think or most of us have been in such situations and then then we really have to hold on to the to the builders and seeing what they're
doing and those timelines can take time you know so you can find comfort in understanding those
timelines you know talking to the people that are building so yeah super important indicator for
sure and then also for me really important in not just in ordinals and ruins and so on, but in every everything I look at is the development of a real culture, right?
Over time.
So not just people pumping and dumping, which is typically part of the early culture.
And certainly was the case for ordinals as well.
You know, like people were, it was the only shiny thing, really, aside from some Solana stuff.
But even at the time, Solana was not that interesting uh h1
2023 so it was the only shiny object so everyone that was still had the energy and was speculating
in the space was really you know maybe coming into ordinals and seeing what was happening there
so you have this kind of you had this early amalgamation of people of very different
backgrounds without a really consistent culture yet.
And so when things kind of were in the state they were in for the last 12 months, it was definitely
been, or definitely been looking at, does a solid culture that's more consistent start forming in
our, in our ecosystem? I think the answer is yes, personally. I think you've seen that improve,
especially as prices kind of people just you
know give up thinking about daily price movements you know and started talking more again about the
fundamentals and why does this all matter like why are we here um so i think yeah having that kind of
more ideological belief forming in a sufficiently big group of people that is for me also important
outside of the builders right so i think those two things for me are really critical and then I think the third one then I
shut up is in our case is that it's on Bitcoin you know that's a very big for me it's a very very big
uh factor to keep believing no matter what right because you know Bitcoin is not going away right
if this was on Cardano right I would have, okay, well, what are we doing with our time? You know, nothing against Cardano,
but whatever other chain almost, right?
Whereas with Bitcoin, you know Bitcoin is gonna be around
and people care so much about Bitcoin
and care about innovating on it.
You know, it's hard to put that genie back in the bottle,
I think, and so I think, you know,
you're always gonna have people interested in this,
in my opinion.
It's hard for me to even imagine that like three years from now, five years from now,
there will be no one tinkering around with ordinals and new protocols anymore.
There will be zero tokens on Bitcoin.
It's going to be very hard to even fathom, right?
So that is maybe the third factor for me.
Yeah, definitely agree.
Barbara, I saw you came up.
I want to give you a chance to unmute and
speak and jump in on the conversation here. Thanks for joining us.
Hey, I'm so sorry I came in a tad late. I was hosting a space I completely forgot that the
times clashed. So it's good to be here. Oh my gosh, why am I sounding like that?
Oh, it's good to be here. It's been interesting listening to buas and and sleepless those those
two help my conviction a lot i like i'm not even going to lie to you when uh buas was mentioning
like looking at builders and sleepless had also mentioned certain devs there are also for me
there are also people that i look at on the timeline and I know what to do immediately. Like I look at,
you know, what they're saying, their analysis, and I know, okay, so this is what's going to
happen. They are sort of like an indicator for me. And when we talk about conviction,
I think that for the originals culture, it's still building out in a way that I don't know,
like, I don't think that it's properly built out yet. Like
it started to build out. And then at some point it feels, it felt like, um, it stopped
a little bit. And then now I don't even know where we are, but we're still at the point
where we're still building that kind of, that conviction. And then, um, for us to get there,
people have to make a lot of, you know, like Bitcoin from this space.
When people make that kind of Bitcoin, they are more comfortable collecting.
And when people outside the Bitcoin ecosystem see that happening, then they are also more comfortable and more confident in collecting art here.
I've also seen like a few conversations start to happen with um certain ethereum collectors looking at originals
and saying oh hey i think that uh i'm just realizing that art on bitcoin is interesting
and stuff like that so they are talking about it which means that there are other people who are
also in their circle who are having conversations like that so it's only a matter of time till we
start to have like those kind of art collectors come to bitcoin to collect art we we haven't even hit the
level of of collection when it comes like art collection we haven't hit that level that ethereum
have hit yet you know um we still have like a lot more people who are trading um the originals
collection pre-prc 2.0 originals collection and all of those we will get there it's just time
it's just going to take time and i think that uh with uh with what the bitcoin art society and
other platforms like that are doing showing those other folks that yes it's possible to spend tons
of bitcoin to collect art on bitcoin uh it is it kind of has like a ripple
effect because there are whales who are watching whales who are watching see people spending
high amounts of of bitcoin buying art and collecting these pieces of art they get interested
but if if they're just like seeing people trade you know oh, they're like, okay, okay, what's going on here? And if
they are trading and the volume isn't even, if the volume isn't attractive, then they're also
not interested. So volume does play a lot of role also in attracting people and then keeping them to
have that kind of conviction. I think we're having this conversation earlier on today, and I realized
that like, no matter what we say, even if we have tons of innovation happening here, one of the key indicators that will get people to look at what's happening and also the innovation happening is the volume.
We saw that happen just two Sundays ago with the Adurals, Palm,, Node Monks, and Puppets.
So when that pump happened, if you were paying attention to the timeline,
you would see there were tons of people who started to ask questions.
We also saw like some Ethereum content creators started to say,
oh, hey, Orginals is also experiencing some kind of volume.
So that brings more eyes.
And then we had more people coming in to get whitelist for all of these collections and then when the volume dried up a little bit they all
disappeared so when we have that kind of volume and it becomes a little bit consistent then these
people are going to looking and say okay oh hey there are some innovative things actually happening
here and then they start to stay they start to learn about the culture they start to collect
and they also start to you know maybe build here so i just wanted to add a little bit on that but yeah buoys
and and and sleepless oh my goodness you have no idea how how much they influence they influence
my conviction i look at them they're still here and i'm like okay yes we're still on track you
know there are people like that and you need to find you need to have conviction yourself but you also need to have people that strengthen the conviction that you have
so you think we're close barbara is that your is that your thought process are we
late stage in the the ecosystem development?
I think we're still very far off.
We're not close.
Depending on what happens,
so what I do think is,
depending on what happens with the BRC 2.0 is coming,
we have ART Network as well.
So depending on what happens with all these developments that are coming up,
late 2025
and early 2026 will be like a really um defining moment for for us here on bitcoin you know like
people are trading bitcoin assets it will be a defining point so whatever happens within this
period will determine if we would have like more people come join us And if it would also build up on the conviction that people who are
already here have. Yeah, for sure. All right, everybody, we've been going for a little over
an hour, probably going to wrap things up here in the next five minutes or so. As sort of a final
question, you can, you can, you know, go off the rails a little bit on this if you have something you want to wrap up with.
But one thing I wanted to just kind of pose as a sort of a wrap-up type question to the panel is,
what do you see as the most important aspect for your trading strategy for you to be successful?
And not just anyone. I think that one of the
important aspects about trading is growing as an individual, trying to get to the point where
you truly are making your own decisions from whatever indicators or wherever you make those decisions from, but it's you doing it.
It's your understanding. Ultimately, if you're the one that's taking on the risk
as the investor, the buyer, the collector, whatever it is, it should be your understanding
that you're going into it with. So growth is always super important. And growing your, you know,
ability to even have a strategy that is comprehensive enough that covers, you know,
like different scenarios is long term enough. What do you guys see as the most important aspect for
your own personal success when it comes to trading
strategy go ahead mush sorry i'm like in a classroom you know like ask me ask me uh so
me personally and not financial advice by any means um I like to DCA and forget that I bought it.
I am too big of a goldfish gambler dude to like be able to get in something, hold it.
Like I get conviction with it and I get stuck holding the bag every single time.
So like for me, I like to DCA.
I don't like to put like if I have 10 grand that I can put into Bitcoin or into Solana or into Polygon or whatever it is.
I don't like to do one big lump sum.
I like to do a little bits here and here every time I see a 5% dip and I just forget about it.
And that has been what's worked best for me and my ADHD.
And it also...
Sorry, go ahead. You find it gives you peace of mind a little bit.
Yeah. It also takes away the emotion from the trading for me too, because I'm following a
structured plan where it's just like, I'm buying bits and bits and bits and bits, if you will.
And then it just sits there. Right. And then for me, I believe like, and this is what I believe
for a long time is that like, I don't want to sell my assets.
I want to be able to leverage them later to go to a bank and say, hey, give me a loan.
I have X amount of Bitcoin or I have X amount of Solana and those types of things.
And then take their money out, you know, and so I don't have to actually lose my money in any type of way.
So I'm just holding it for the longevity of it.
You know, like I want to retire
my kids and stuff. So I always tell people I'm broke, because I'm always putting I'm always
decaying. But that's, that's just what's always worked best for me. And you know, when I first
got into crypto, people told me, you know, just buy and hold like the actual tokens, the actual,
not the tokens, the actual not the tokens the actual
currencies like bitcoin ethereum like those types of things um and that's how that person he's an
old miner from back in like 2016 2017 and so that is where i got that knowledge from and at first i
thought like that's stupid like you know but it's i followed it ever since i've lost so much money
and it's always worked out
best for me and normally when like normies call me or my friends call me that i've onboarded into
crypto they always say what should i buy and i always say well i'm going to be doing this
not saying that you should but i'm going to be doing this and i'm going to be dca and i always
give an example of how much money i'm dca at one time because I find you always want to stay a little liquid
right you always want to have a little bit of liquid so that's just my thoughts on it
oh yeah that's definitely another aspect that goes with that for sure uh Chris go ahead yeah I feel
like this is like back to the basics but for me it's um whatever chain has the the hype the volume and you have an edge on in any way
to continue to like lock those profits to the native token and then just you know hold on that
or use it in defy and earn yield on it or whatever so for example um you know if solana meme coins
as you mentioned during like the when the trenches were hot, like January through March or whatever, like locking in those trades to Solana, then just holding on to Solana for however long.
Or I mean, I was the opposite side of this on runes.
I actually like bought and held my runes.
But for those that like, you know, did well on runes at the beginning, locking in those sats and stacking Bitcoin is like an obvious, you know, a way of what you could have done.
But not getting greedy and being like, oh, this is going to be like 100x if I hold on to this, you know, for another year or so.
But like locking in those those sats on specifically for me, like meme coins or like coins like with like ordinals and NFTs, I honestly don't trade as much.
I'm more so just hold.
And I got buy and hold, but that's just the way that I do it.
I usually like to go in and out of more liquid stuff.
But yeah, so stacking the native token, we did that last cycle in ETH with whatever tokens that we were trading at the time, then just, like, stacking ETH.
I like doing that.
When I am trading, like, more aggressively, like, day trading or, like, swing trading, kind of like Mush said, I like to not use all my powder in one buy.
I like to not use all my powder in one buy.
Again, I know that sounds obvious for a lot of people,
but I see a lot of people, you know,
that will try to copy trade somebody
and they'll just like use their whole allocated amount
in one buy.
And then they're like, oh my God,
you said it was going to go up.
Well, it's down 15%.
Now I'm down this much.
It's like, well, yeah,
that was like one of my like five to 10 buys.
You know, like if something's trading at like a a one
billion dollar I mean pump would probably be a good example of that like
I I did like some day trading with pump when it first launched and then I didn't
touch it and then this last like week or so I figured that Alan was gonna come
back after being on thread guys stream and then like disappearing for two weeks.
So I started like doing a couple buys.
I did like four buys on around around like .026.
It's back up to .033.
But, you know, I wouldn't want to risk my whole allocated portion of that and one buy.
Instead, buy, you know, wait, depending on how long the trade is, minutes, hours, days and then buy again.
And then, you know, that kind of long the trade is minutes hours days and then by again and then you know that kind of like didn't DCA is down so all the way from like obvious DCA is like Bitcoin or ETH or whatever to like even if you're
like doing lower market cap stuff just don't use like I just don't use all your
powder on like your first pile yeah I see that mistake so much and I know like
I'm preaching to the choir here everybody here knows this but like a lot
of people that are like just getting into it or new or like watching like again other
platforms are a lot more fresh they don't know that and they'll see like oh pingu token just
dropped let me spend all of my money that I would have bought with it and one clip instead of saying
okay well let me buy this you know like one time a day for a week or you know a couple times a week
for a month or whatever so yeah the dcas are like super important yeah imagine the time frame like
the short term dca you dca in and out of a position and i feel like you know if you combine
that with your other concept that you're mentioning there is stacking the native token in whatever ecosystem or chain you're on.
It's a really good strategy.
Especially if you then go and pair that with having that whole cross-chain thought process of where do you want to stack for the longest term, which I mean, I think everybody here would probably say that Bitcoin is the one that you want to be having at least the highest percentage of your portfolio in that long term
term bucket, which to me, this is the ultimate value. We'll go to the rest of you guys here in
just a second. But I just want to insert this in there. This is the ultimate value of what's going on on Bitcoin ever since early 2023, you know, what Arch is
building is the pairing of DeFi itself and everything that it encompasses directly to
Bitcoin so that we can stack the native token of all of crypto. You know, we call it the
mother chain. I like Ken's analogy, Chris, you know, Ken from Pizza Ninjas, his analogy that he made in
the video, we put out that Bitcoin is the father chain. I think that's hilarious, because we always
call it the mother chain. But yeah, this whole concept of stacking the native token, if you zoom
all the way out of like, all crypto stack what's the most native which
is bitcoin i also forgot to mention too depending on like your stack and your goals obviously but
don't be afraid to clip out on all-time highs of majors obviously excluding bitcoin depending on
who you are but like you know i clipped out during the trump mania on Solana like 25% of my bag in January and
It went up higher it went up like, you know, I think I think I clipped out around 300
It went up to like 350 or whatever it was. I don't remember
And like obviously, you know part of me is like oh gosh
I should have held longer like it's up 40 more percent than when I sold and now it's back down to like 160
Right, so like obviously now I don't feel bad and I'm sitting on staples that I could use to deploy
wherever I want since those clip outs so with everything besides Bitcoin
including ETH I personally like to clip out a little bit on new all-time highs
yeah that's a good strategy man selling it all-time wise like it's like a dream but well when I say that I mean like you know like the the fresh I don't mean I'm
literally timing the tops I mean like when I see it breaking all time like
Solana again like yeah when it when it broke the previous high I like I sold
some and it went a lot higher than that and then it went back down so that's
what I mean I'm not claiming that I'm tying the tops. I'm just being facetious, to be honest.
I was just kidding.
I totally got it.
I'll keep it short, but thanks for hosting.
And I really look forward to it.
I need to get a date.
Before we leave, I need to get a date
when Mainnet is going live for Arch.
Definitely really look forward to this,
especially for our Fungible Coins.
On the personal level, maybe a little bit on the left trading
side. I've been trying to learn quite a bit there over the last year or so.
I have some specific, you know, goals of getting better at that.
Right. Like keep studying that.
But I think otherwise it's really I think if you spend enough time maniacally on a certain
niche and this can be crypto or NFTs or Bitcoin ecosystem.
I think that will naturally just improve your judgment as to how to make decisions.
And I think ultimately kind of for good investment outcomes, judgment is what matters.
So, you know, and that takes time and experience.
And, you know, I think that's kind of where I'm at.
Just keep staying on top of the new stuff as well.
Don't get too, don't get too tired and, um, you know, get, get stuck only in old
things, you know, but balance it out with also, you know, remaining excited
about new stuff, but, uh, but also not overly right.
Like, so that's, I think a balance that's pretty hard to strike is like, uh, you
know, stay enthusiastic, but also don't get carried away with all the new stuff and gamble things
away.
So I think that is a balance that I'll,
I'll be particularly focused on is to,
is to kind of try to strike that,
try to strike that right with enough time.
So that's it.
But thanks to Brian for hosting.
Really appreciate it.
And good to chat with some people here that I hadn't seen for a while.
I appreciate you coming and everybody,
anybody else want to share?
I can't remember who all we've been around to so far.
What's your most important aspect of trading strategy for yourself?
And we'll wrap up here in a minute or so.
Thank you, Brian, for hosting this in the panel.
It was definitely a fun and interesting conversation,
especially because everybody's so many different things
that they're good at and creators. but kind of what they were saying earlier being a community
member is an easy way not to be a trader so I always tell people when especially like there's
very few communities other than my own that I'm actually like a part of an active in some of that's
mostly by design because I used to get wrapped up in the whole thing back in the
days and you'd never sell so i started looking at it like okay i have two core groups that i like
and one's an alpha server we don't have a pfp so it makes it real easy to sell other ones but you
know you can't the second you start getting emotionally invested into a community into a
project um you get caught up in that little like the bout of magic that happens with that and the euphoria
or whatever you want to call it to see the sheer insanity it makes it much harder to sell but when
you look at it like an asset whether it's a coin or an nft in particular and it hits a price that
makes you happy and you screenshot it and you're telling mom about it it's in your server um we
have a pinned message that thatver always reposts.
I think it goes down like 50 lines of, you know,
if you're happy enough for this, if you're happy enough for that,
sell it, sell it, sell it.
Because people don't.
Then they get angry and they get resentful and then they revenge trade.
So I would say stick to the plan.
Stick to your original thesis.
Sell when it hits your targets.
Definitely don't unlist opiums at 0.6 like I did,
thinking they'd go to 1BTC. But, you know know we all live what we learn right yeah for sure oh man
nico barbara any uh final thoughts from from youtube before we wrap things up
from YouTube before we wrap things up?
I'm going to give you the disclaimer.
I'm a retired cab driver, so don't listen to me.
I can't even spell the word advice on my profile.
So yeah, don't listen to me at all.
Yeah, of course.
Go ahead, Barbara.
I saw you unmuted there yes i'm still trying to sell my runes bag um if anyone knows how to help me please do help me
but i want to take a cue from what sleeper said about you know like getting emotionally attached
i i think that that's one of the reasons why with rune tokens and you know like other fungible tokens it's easier for you to you know sell those
ones than when you're holding like these originals collection and everyone is sharing how beautiful
their art is you know you join the discord and verify oh my gosh like that's the that's the end
of it especially for sometimes for some of the servers
where they sell shame people it becomes extremely difficult so I'm not much of a trader but I'm
I'm learning a lot of things about you know controlling and managing greed and understanding
the difference between like some of the pieces of art that you want to hold forever or for a long
time as opposed to the ones that you want to trade.
So that's one of the things that I'm learning.
And with them, I'm setting target, you know, for each of them.
Okay, so I'm going to sell at this point.
And I don't look back when I do that.
I'm also, one of my interesting trading strategies these days is to explore anything new you know like if you've been paying
attention to bitcoin you would notice that those who were able to get in on ordi first you know
like the firsts of each of these new platforms always give you an opportunity to make money
you know so if you're able to get in on it early and you get those tokens then you're able to sell
and make some profit off of it it was the
same with alkins like the methane token it was the same with um um odin fund the odin dog and
and some of the other ones so that's also a strategy that i try to implement when i pay
attention to the timeline and say what's happening i try my best getting on the the tokens first so
if arch is going to have a token I'm definitely
going to be keeping my keeping my eyes peeled to getting on that early and also try my best to sell
some of it I'm sorry Brian I'll sell some of it if I don't get attached but that's that's my new
strategy because I'm mostly trading here on Bitcoin most times I if I trade on other chains
these days I forget. I
have tons of tokens on Solana that I bought because someone asked me to buy and I haven't
even sold them. So don't listen to me. I'm horrible. I'm still holding my runes bag. So yeah.
Yeah, obviously none of us here are financial advisors. We're all just telling our own personal opinions and storytelling of our
experience as traders. So nothing is financial advice. Talk to your financial advisor if you're
looking to get into a position and do your own research. But thank you everybody for coming.
I know we got a couple of questions like what's going on with Arch.
Barbara, I can say for sure, definitively, there will be an Arch token.
It'll be the, we'll have a native, it'll be the native token within our network.
Arch is DPoS mechanism and runs on verifier nodes similar to Solana.
And this will be the native token, the Arch token.
So we'll definitely have a token.
I don't have any specific dates for you guys today,
but the way that I'll answer it and kind of what I've been telling people in Discord
for the last six months to a year,
we had been putting out targets. We launched in
October of last year on Bitcoin Testnet 4, and we had several launch partners with us.
We've closed down our daily on-chain missions, though some things are still live on Testnet,
and you can go test them out. some projects still have their own rewards that
they're tracking for saturn is still live cha-ching there's even been some projects that have launched
more recently on testnet that you can check out like ordeez is one for example voltfi um so
everything is still live on testnet for anyone to go and test out. If you've never connected your wallet to our dashboard, then I highly recommend that you do that.
Definitely before Mainnet, just to make sure that you're all set up and ready to go for when we relaunch missions on Mainnet.
Our website's dashboard.arch.network.
And I'll put that down in the replies after the show if you want to go and find it.
Or you can find it from our previous posts. But to kind of answer the question a little bit about
timelines. So we had been sharing these loose targets of quarters when we thought we would
launch in this year. I think the latest one we were thinking, and this was back in April, we had
announced that we thought we'd be able to be on mainnet by Q3.
We have since stopped announcing these rough targets of when we're going to be because
we're getting very, very close.
So we've been working through and are nearly finished with our full security audit.
through and are nearly finished with our full security audit. We want to make sure that all
of our tech is fully ready to go, fully tested and, you know, super resilient when we launch
on mainnet. I want to be putting people at risk with their assets, especially when this is Bitcoin.
We're nearly done with that process and we'll be making our final sprint and go to market for mainnet.
So I don't have a date for you guys today because we've not actually set a date yet.
But in the coming weeks, you should see some activity ramping up, us getting in position
to make our final sprint and launch on mainnet.
So stay tuned for that.
We are really coming down to it and things are
getting exciting. So pay attention to the main account. We have our at Arch account,
which represents Arch Labs, and then our more community focused account that is hosting this
Arch network. If you didn't follow yet, please make sure that you're following. We put out a lot
of content and repost a lot of
content from different projects in the ecosystem. So if you want to stay, you know, up front and
center when it comes to what's going on in the Arch ecosystem, then make sure that you're
following our account. And I would definitely put notifications on so you can stay active.
But that's the update for as far as where we're at,
headed toward mainnet. We're very, very close. I know it's not going to happen in August,
so I can tell you it's not going to happen in August. But beyond that, it is entirely up in
the air as far as when we could be launching on mainnet. So stay tuned in the coming weeks for
more information coming out and things
are about to get really exciting in Bitcoin DeFi for sure. Thanks everybody for coming. We really
appreciate you joining. I know there's so many things you could be doing with your hour to hour
and a half on a Tuesday afternoon or evening or late morning, whatever it is for you. So really
appreciate you spending some time
with us today and talking about trading. Thanks for everybody who came and listened, everybody
that shares the space. We see you guys. We love this community. We love Bitcoin and all of the,
you know, Bitcoiners from the OGs to everybody that's come in since this whole ramp up in what's going to happen when we actually
pull off DeFi on Bitcoin. So couldn't be more bullish myself. And we'll go ahead and put a
pin in it here. And we'll see you next week on Tuesday. What do you do with the Bitcoin besides it just gather value?
Real estate developers in New York City, they're not buying the real estate because they want
to live in it.
But like most of the people who are buying assets at some point want to sell the assets
at a profit.
People that use fiat currency as a store of value,
we call them the core.
We call them the core.
People that use fiat currency,
we call them the core.
We call them the core.
We call them the core. We call them the core.
