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#bitcoin Crypto and Tech talk : Aptos Defi , NFTS , and MOVE $APT



Hey for the individual behind stars races that you bones No, no, I think bones is going to be joining I see I guess see him now he's almost tsunami tsunami finance account
Can you guys hear me okay or did it cut out? Yeah, yeah, you're good. You're good. Hey guys. Yeah, sorry. It's a few minutes late. I was just wrapping up a call, but thank you so much for having us here.
Yeah, no problem, man, no problem. We'll get started in like three minutes or so. Mr. Producer, can you send tsunami finance, a co-host invite, please? Send tsunami finance, a co-host invite. Am I coming in clear, guys? Or am I coming in like a strategy? - Yeah. - Okay, okay.
All right, perfect, perfect. Mr. Producer at 705 at 705 you can play the clip on our stream and then give me a thumbs up once I give the introduction once I can give the introduction
In the meantime, bones and for the individual behind the star space account, you guys are free to tweet out that you guys are going live on this space now so we can get some of your folks in feel free to
to do so. And I see you. We also have the Pandas joining us. So it's going to be pretty sick. It's going to be a pretty sick conversation. Thank you guys so much for taking the time to coming up and talking some shop.
No problem. How you doing, Wabi?
I'm doing great, man. Doing great. Gonna contribute to the App Dose community. Hold on, give me one second. What's going on, guys? Welcome to another edition of Crypto World Radio. I'm Wabi, and I'm here joined by my co-host as always, our special guest.
tsunami and we also have a field pain my boy here at Because of Bitcoin and we're also joined by Starspace which is a launch pad and NFT marketplace built on Appdos and a pretty cool surprise we have the pandas awakening here and their collection on Appdos
I'm still familiarizing myself with all things moves. I want to welcome you guys all today to a roundtable space. This is going to be pretty new for me as it is for you guys. We have tsunami finance and there are margin trading and spot exchange built on APTOs.
Yeah, they allow users to trade cryptos like BTC and ETH with zero price impact No, an exit liquidity low low funding fees and also collateral that grows in value over time and they offer pretty unique approach as far as pricing goes that's not dependent on the price curve of assets
making it a bit different compared to other AMMs say like on Ethereum like a Uniswap or a balancer and in addition to that they also offered some pool LP tokens called the TLP which minimizes risk from from permanent loss through through a
diversification of blue chip cryptos and stables and also maximizing those rewards by generating leverage trading fees on top of swap fees. So a plethora of stuff and of course like I said we have a launch pad built on app those called star space which is also an NFT marketplace and
and also the Pandas Awakening which is a collection that's on Appdos. And on top of that guys, I want to give a shout out to our sponsor for a crypto world radio. I'm going to put them up on the nest, nose protocol.
And yeah, no, it's protocol. They're a DeFi suite that's going to be launching a DeFi lease and it's going to risk it's it's it's it's essentially risks. I bet it de risks you from from full liquidation. You get to keep your full assets. So basically like the
stop loss platform the first of its kind so be sure to check them out I believe they launched main net sometime in May or June put them up on the nest and yeah let's get started I want to welcome everyone up on here I want to thank tsunami pain stars how's everyone doing we'll start off with tsunami how are you guys doing brother
We're doing good man. Yeah, thank you for the introduction. Yeah, it's great to talk with you guys Yeah, you know the abto's ecosystem. It's a fairly new ecosystem Because of that, you know, it's always a great time for us to talk to people participating in other, you know, chains and whatnot
I know you guys are mostly Bitcoin guys, but I'm sure you guys participate in Ethereum, maybe Solana, and a wide variety of smart contract, ecosystem L1s, and even Layer 2s maybe, but we'd love to talk to you guys about Abtoast.
And we're really, really excited just to talk about, you know, D5 on AppTos, tsunami itself, and then star space in the NFT ecosystem.
Obviously, NFTs are a little bit more hot, I would say, on chain right now. It's going to be really, really interesting to see a lot of the NFTs that come live on Starspace when that's live. This tsunami and Starspace team work on a bunch of unique stuff together through NFT5 concepts and
I'm pretty sure that the Start Space team is going to be using our earn asset TLP in a wide variety of ways including allowing NFT projects themselves to integrate that and essentially give yield to their holders. And that can be used to, you know, essentially address key problems in the
And if T side of things, which include volume and liquidity, and then also increase in user accounts in D5. So there's going to be a bunch of unique things like that occurring between tsunami, start space, and you can only really find these products in the App Toast ecosystem. So yeah.
Awesome man glad to glad to have you up here brother glad to have you up I do have some questions for your brother once we got started So for the individual behind star space. How are you doing brother good to have you up man. Yeah great great to obviously be
here. I'm over in Asia right now so it's a bit early for me. Can you guys hear me? Okay, another Wi-Fi here has nothing. Yeah, you're good. Okay, you're great, great, great. Yeah, I know it's obviously great to be here.
It's really been a blast. I think building on Aptos the past couple months just to DevNet not too long ago will be heading testnet soon as well and I think really going to market over the next four to eight weeks and entering
just incredibly excited, I think, by the APTOs and a TE ecosystem, the team behind APTOs and everyone else building on APTOs. Thank you so much for having us really on this space.
the problem and the problem and for the individual behind uh... and is the way to what's going on brother how you feel here but we uh... thanks for having me here uh... good morning everyone this is the night uh...
a core contributor for pandas awakening and head of North America for Chingari. For people who don't know who we are, so Chingari is one of the most popular social media platforms based out of India. We have more than
175 million installations and we are soon going to be building our Web 3 product on AppTos and we forecast to bring in a couple of million users onto AppTos by in the next nine months.
And also we are launching this NFT collection very soon. The minted is continuously being postponed for whatever the reason. But very soon we'll be announcing the minted of this NFT collection too.
Cool and cool. So we'll get started with tsunami. Bones brother. So could you explain to us what exactly some of the differences are between like a new programming language like move compared to something like solidity, right?
I know your experience comes, and I know you've worked on Ethereum specifically on Arbitrum, so would love to know what are some of the pros and cons between both languages. Yeah, you know, I would say the majority of my DeFi experience is definitely working on Slanta.
definitely definitely enjoy everything that goes on the Ethereum ecosystem as well but like yeah comparing the languages maybe a little bit hard for me like directly but you know the chains themselves yeah just like the amount of like Abto's itself
We can do hundreds of thousands transactions per second. Of course, the chain is not working at that speed currently, and that's just because there's not enough applications and users and just real transactions occurring at those numbers. But yeah, just basically these move chains in general.
abtos and sweet the performance is far far better and it's far better than even salana you know working with rust for example on salana too can be very very difficult at times working with move on abtos
This is a lot smoother. The original like Abto's repo or not Abto's repo, but move repo was written in Rust. So there's a lot of similarities between the two. But overall, like Rust wasn't built for blockchain. Right? Like Rust is just a computer
programming language. But move was created by the DM team, of course, at Facebook. And because of that, it's just a lot easier using move creating essentially anything on change. So the AppTos Labs team is constantly improving AppTos's
version of the DM blockchain. We're really looking forward to seeing what it looks like in the next couple of months. We think that composable NFT standards and a bunch of other unique things regarding the app to the ecosystem will be constantly improving.
I know that the gas schedule was just improved quite a bit as well and that's like super super important for us as an Oracle based decks. It was costing us quite a pretty penny on testnet running the protocol but now it's a lot more affordable and we should be going to
mainnet soon. So AppTos as a chain is constantly improving, working with Move allows us to do that, and then working as on chain builders creating DApps. It is a lot simpler than, yeah, than what it was with us. So yes.
So as far as the tsunami goes, I know you guys are taking an innovative approach as far as margin trading and spot trading, right? So what you guys do, you incorporate an Oracle price and pull liquidity and then the platform provides traders with things like zero percent
price impact, and as I said, now an exit liquidity, which is a bit of a unique aspect when we think of crypto trading specifics. So could you elaborate on how that unique pricing mechanism works, brother? Yeah, of course. So tsunami itself, we're an Oracle-based decks.
We have no AMMs, no clubs, no off-chain, on-chain order books. So how the protocol operates is a trader is trading against the LP on our platform. And these LPs are baskets of goods, as you alluded to holding a wide variety of blue ship assets.
But since we have multiple baskets of goods, it can even be non-blu-chip assets, which is quite unique for this Oracle-based model. Typically, Oracle-based X is like GMX, they only can offer large-cap blu-chip assets because
because of risk. There's always pricing risk since you're using Oracle's somebody can manipulate the price if it's a very, very liquid or low market cap asset. But since we use multiple baskets of goods, we can kind of mediate some
those risks. So for example, we can offer assets like cake from pancake swap or sushi, which are two examples that we're probably going to implement early on. And we can have those be in their own basket of goods and kind of mitigate some of the risk. So then like we will
I don't see ultimate protocol failure, but yeah, how the mechanism works is trader trading at CLP and the price that they get comes from switchboard and the Pith oracles. And switchboard did their integration to AppTos all customally forced tsunami. So everything works very
very well for us. We're able to price liquidity better than GMX and we're able to do a bunch of unique things through NFT5, socialify, and of course multiple baskets of goods that GMX can't do either. And we're very, very excited about that.
The stick man so was actually very curious to follow up on your statement about TLP and like we're going over right now It allows the Quity providers to diversify the risk and maximize things like rewards and all that stuff
How exactly does the token work? And also, how do you guys ensure that the TLP token remains stable and attractive to LPs, especially during times of high market volatility, as we've seen over the last year?
Yeah, yeah, of course. There's a bunch of details specifically on TLP and our docs, so I want to iterate that before I go ahead and give kind of like a latent terms, like walk through of it. So at any time, feel free to go to docs, docs, tsunami, dot finance, and you can find every detail of our protocol, including how a lot of these mechanisms work.
There's even good bits of information if you are familiar with coding in any capacity on how to run a keeper bot running liquidations and other things to maintain the network that you can make a little bit of money on. So feel free to go check that out. But yeah, so how TLP works is it is a basket of goods. If you pull
We'll look at the initial basket of goods. It suffers minimal and permanent loss since it is a basket of goods and it isn't like an AMM style pool. Because it's occurring fees and revenues on the platform, it actually makes more and
yield than it does suffer in permanent loss. You do suffer slights amount, slight amounts of impermanent loss, that's just how it works. But since fees and revenues are higher, you don't really feel that. So you will receive a certain fixed yield rate, and that will, of course, vary over time.
And yeah, it's a very, very cool mechanism because it is a quote unquote real yield source. A bunch of different protocols can utilize it in a wide variety of ways. As you alluded to earlier, I worked on an Arbitram protocol that took very similar yields from GMX.
called GLP and we created a Delta Neutral Protocol. So you know you could participate in a fixed product on top of a protocol like tsunami if somebody creates a Delta Neutral strategy off of this yield. It's very easy to do a wide variety of things. I think something that's super unique to the absentee for
system is that Starspace is going to be essentially building some products on top of this yield. And I don't know currently if there's any NFT marketplaces in existence that are basically building on top of DeFi protocol to utilize basically DeFi strategies but through NFTs but that's what we're doing with them.
It's very, very unique, very unique stuff that you can only find on AppTos. We're excited. It's pretty much offered this to the ecosystem. So, you know, tsunami, as a protocol, right, we allow people to trade with leverage, right. So it is a trading platform. It's not just your standard swap, which is something
unique to the after-seq system that's currently not in existence yet, long short trading with leverage. And we have this yield product that is very, very competitive that not only improves the LP experience because if you ever participate in an LP on any UNI V2, V3 model, you're going to suffer massive amounts of permanent loss, it's actually pretty
stupid because if you're providing liquidity you should receive at least a low amount of yield, right? Like in theory, they just make sense. But currently our Dexos don't serve users well. Specifically LPs, so that occurs. And yeah, that's a little bit of a rundown of all that.
Thanks man, that was a very well detailed explanation. And I guess we'll move on over to Starspace. Starspace, what's going on man? Very interested to know what kind of marketplace you guys are. You know, bones actually introduced me to you guys today and everyone
have much time to dive into what you guys are doing for the NFT space on Apto so I'd like to know are you guys more of a pseudo swap or you guys like Blur? What's like the statement behind what you guys are trying to do on the Apto?
Does the ecosystem -- Yeah, I think that we definitely like to take a lot of sort of inspiration from a number of different sort of marketplaces. I would say definitely to start, we're staying away though from
At least for now from the AMM side of things I think that we would absolutely love to do that in the future But at least to start I think that that we're definitely not closer to something like pseudo swap Then then you know, maybe something like open seer magic Eden. I think that that there's a lot of things we've recognized
that open-sea magic in blur, you know, X2, Y2, etc. I've done really, really well and I think some things they haven't done so well. But ultimately where we'd really like to focus is really around NFT5. That's where, you know, us as a team,
have a lot of passion, some great experience, and generally see the most opportunity. And I think that one piece of that is of course working closely with tsunami on the TLP or earned product on NFTs, but also just giving really users
Their end users, the sort of ease of use to unlocking new potential with their assets, is what we'd really like to focus on and where we believe is really the best value for the end user. And so, you can think of things like very easy or
or sort of one-click solutions to staking to borrow lending to eventually, I think, some sort of margin or leverage as well, introducing sort of margin or leverage as well to NFTs, but ultimately that's where we'd like to focus.
And that is a bit about what we're building. I think touched a little bit as well on the beginning of this. We just hit really DevNet about last week or so or maybe the week before that. And we'll be going to test that soon and just doing a bunch of different testing. And really looking forward to just being
being on Main Net, 4A and getting feedback and building with APTOs and the ecosystem. Pandas is one of those projects. We won't be launching but are planning to work closely with and have had a lot of great conversations with Venei.
There's all that account right now and many of the other team members. I think they're really one of the brightest teams on Aptos or building with Aptos. I think that short-form video, vertical video, is so valuable.
today in sort of consumers minds. And I think using that to push NFT or really Web 3 narratives I think is going to be crucial to, you know, APTOs as well as to the sort of broader mission that I guess
crypto is really here for. We can actually touch upon that as far as NFT goes like narratives and all that stuff. What do you guys think it's going to take for NFTs to really kick off mainstream adoption? Do you guys think it's going to be things like with mobile integration? I know Salana, they
recently released their their sogophone at scale like you know, it's not really it's not really scarce in the supply that people thought it was but like what do you think the NFT landscape has to do in order to capture that same web to attention spend where
people just want to interact with these technologies, like Chad GBT just came out of nowhere and people just want to interact with as much as they can. So what sort of application do you guys believe it's going to take for NFTs to really hyperscale to that extent?
Yeah, I think that we talk a lot about the easiest thing that most people would reply to this is gaming. I do see a lot of value in gaming and how NFTS
that's can be integrated with a number of different games. But I think our view is that while that stuff is interesting, it's probably years away from any sort of meaningful usage or adoption. I think you see today in just the
large large games like sandbox and others that i think are tried to introduce some sort of NFT aspect to it like they're they're struggling to sort of have any meaningful users or really any users at all and so i think that that the sort of adoption i i think
In my opinion, it has to come from a lot more unfortunately really free stuff. I think that stuff like rewards and app for something like Starbucks that's completely free. I don't know if it's sort of like a P.F.E. reward.
or just a reward that also comes as a guarantee that you could make sure you sort of have over time. I think that there's the stuff with saga. I think is very interesting. We've
I think we've taken a look a little bit at Saga. I think that, I don't know, there's a lot of different things around how they of course launch Saga and I think are to be questioned. But looking forward to generally their offering, their a new mobile for our application,
as well as just more and more adoption will be very crucial, especially as you go outside of the US, the majority of people don't have a PC, they more so have, of course, a mobile phone. And so I think that's going to be really interesting. And I think lastly, the social side of things, I think like integrations, like really
in Chigari, if there's sort of like free NFTs and integrations there, I see that being sort of the easiest path to adoption rather than making, you know, the friction 5 to 10 bucks, if not even more for
or some sort of monkey jk at jpeg. So I think that free to own sort of model is something that I'm a strong believer in. Someone like Gabriel Lighten and did you get a cockoo. The stuff that they're doing I think is really interesting and I think is something to note for further adoption.
I want to pass it over to Payne before we go on over to the Pandas. Payne, what about yourself? I know you dive pretty much full time into the NFT landscape. What's your take as far as like what the NFTverse has to do in order to capture that same attention that you know video games have or even just like
crypto trading in general. What are some of the solutions that you want to see implemented? Yeah, for sure. I don't think that NFTs necessarily have to reinvent the wheel to have exponential growth from here. We've seen
a bunch of super successful, you know, PFP projects recently, but like only some have staying power and I think it's really just gonna matter with, like, who's a part of the community and who's really like actually, you know, into it and, you know, wants to be
be a part of the community and it's not just like VC-funded culture necessarily. That's why I've been a big fan of the Malaydees and Romilios because it's very authentic. It's not like, it's not, you know, some like Pump and Dump where all the people change their PFP like the day
after it stops pumping or some shit like that it's um yeah like there's a bunch of cool people and I think that the real winners will just be the people that you know actually build cool utility like you know IRL events merge you know whatever it may be
But there's also another aspect of it too, like how you mentioned stars is like the whole collecting the digital collectibles thing. I think that thing has yet to take off at all. Like Starbucks tried it out a little bit I think with they had like some kind of NFC on polygon, but
Basically, I think if you went a certain amount of times or on certain days you got an NFC and so they're true like there's definitely companies Trying trying them out like different models like that especially Red it to just did a recent launch and so I think as the cycle goes on we'll see more and more
You know companies they'll probably remarketed as digital collectibles I think but I also think that you know these projects that are just coming out and like it's a blatant knockoff of another project and it's not anything original like I haven't I got into NFS he's like in early 22
2021 and you know I've been in Corp just since like 2018 though and I've seen so many projects come and go it's like they almost do the like the whole market cycle like in one or like one week to three weeks you know like just pump from like point two to eight e as
And then you're around dripping. So yeah, I think that there's a select project, though, that you could like really invest in and like hold for a while. But at this point, the market hasn't matured enough enough yet to where I think you could like really, really go like all in on like a bunch of different projects, you know.
I don't think that would, I don't think that solution. If you want to just be like a successful, you know, trader, I guess. But what's up Panda? Dad, your head up. Oh yeah. So something to add for the question you asked. So if you really
only want the mass adoption for the NFTs or if you really want NFTs to be the main thing, it boils down to the problem it is solving. So it's not like, I would say PFPs and NFTs clubs are overrated in the entire NFT ecosystem, despite us trying to launch our own
PFP collection with pandas. So like overtake like previously before the content was digital, there are ways to people to own content. There are ways to people to own collectibles. Of course that's the reason why NFTs got like NFTs got created.
So we are trying to solve that with content ownership where you could mint your videos or you could mint the content you created as NFTs so that even if someone copy paste your stuff or even if someone for up downloads and re-uploads it for some other social media platform offer the same social media platform.
This NFT will show your proof of ownership and we already did it with the VDNFTs and help 15,000 creators to help to mint their content as NFTs. So and also these NFTs was purchased by their fanbase.
and the people who purchase this NFTs got 10% off their creator's earnings like royalties or like dividends. So it's pretty much like you support your favorite creator by purchasing their NFTs, by purchasing their video NFTs and a benefit from their growth.
So this is one way and we are also using these UDNFDs for NFD gated access. So it's pretty much like Patreon on Web3 where if you are a VNFD holder of a creator you could get some exclusive content access. And if you don't push on these
friends I would say like like crypto will never see mass adoption for NFTs like I would say social is the biggest vertical and content is the most important vertical like that's the point of NFTs in general like it's late at least in my opinion
Oh, I was just gonna say Laura you should go. Pandec, can you mute yourself? I think you're driving and I can hear a lot of background noise. I'm sorry.
Yo, thanks for the floor by Laura here from Apptoss. Yeah, I just like to add into what like we were you guys are talking about with NFT gaming. I also strongly believe that for apps us right now.
especially with the tech that they're running on, which is move. I think it's really good like a strategy to actually push gaming because of how powerful the tech is. The way I see things with the current like,
situation of like NFT gaming. We were kind of like, they're the projects, they're kind of like doing things wrong because I'm not saying that I'm an expert on this. This is just my personal opinion because they're like developing their own game.
as an individual project. I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but when you do that, you're not really utilizing the technology of the blockchain. Because the blockchain, what it's supposed to be, it's supposed to be something that is decentralized. I know that makes no sense when it comes to game development because at the end of the
day. You need to have somebody to be pulling the trigger, especially when you're doing like game stuff. You need somebody to be like managing the updates and shit. But you know, one thing that we can have in a blockchain is transparency. So if you like try hard enough to think about that,
You could actually come up with something that's decentralized in a way. There's already a lot of inspiration that we could look into, movies that we could look into, or even the anime. I'm not sure if you guys are big fan of the anime. There's this anime called "Sort
art online were in like the characters. Yeah, yeah, so think about it. Like they have these assets that they can actually bring to a different game and that assets will stay with them. So imagine like
having that in the blockchain. So essentially there's two things that will hype that asset. Number one, you can bring it to games that will allow adaption to that asset. And that's going to be yours forever.
And number two, like even if that one specific game shuts down, the ass is still gonna be yours and you can still bring it to some other game. That's one thing that nobody has ever, ever thought about. And there's like Faulkton and NFT games that have been trying to push their shit out. And I think
One of the bad things that happened also was like NFT got off like the wrong foot with gaming because they started off with Play-to-Earn games like Axi and Finity which Which at the end of the day was just a big big ass Ponzi But yeah, I think like we'd move if people
people would pay more attention to it. I'm not saying that it's the best tech, but I think it's the best tech to play with right now, especially when it comes to integrating different apps because of how easy it is. I'm not seeing all other protocols yet.
but among those that I've seen so far, I think movies like the most adapt, adaption friendly, I'm not sure if that's the term. But yeah, that's my sentiment unlike how we could up the entry on the gaming legacy of NFTs.
tsunami and for yourself I know like NFT-5 is trying to is trying to be a thing but I kind of feel like there's some risk to that and me and pain we're talking about this right so it's like you know you take your NFT and you stake it
It's a good a yield bearing asset which you can then wrap in a synthetic to lock into vol and you get some LSD and all that stuff and Then you can take another loan out against Yeah, yeah, yeah, free even more leverage. Yeah, yeah, I
I mean, I think there can be some good parts of NFC file like I think pseudo swap and NFC X are doing great job with the liquidity pools. You know, any question or any collection that has a deep liquidity pool is, you know, probably going to do pretty well if it
decent volume you know and like it makes people comfortable when they know that you can basically just sell for floor price with little slippage at any time and so there's really cool things like that that I do like for sure but I'm not a huge fan of I've like the low
and stuff, but I think also like I think NFT perps are a really cool idea though, like just being able to trade futures for the floor prices is pretty dope. Yeah there's there's a bunch of different like things you can do right like what is NFT 5 right like it's essentially just taking
and applying them to DeFi concepts. And then like, you know, you can do it like, and a lot of the current ways that have been set up, but like a big way to nommy plans to apply these things is more so just using NFTs as a medium for people to participate in DeFi. So it's less like NFT
per se, but more so like using NFTs as the medium to participate. When traditionally, I don't know, people would hold like an LP token to participate in tsunamis LP. But you could quite literally put NFTs on top of the LP. And in that instance, they're essentially acting
as the LP token, it's just people rather hold NFTs because you know, an NFT is a little bit different than holding a LP token. So yeah, like I think NFT purps are really really cool too. You know, I know that me and Chad Lee who's on the StarSpace account, we both helped the NFT purptime
their early days worked on that protocol for a little bit. And yeah, there's just a lot of risk with that. And it's quite obvious risk. Like when you have an asset that has a fairly low market cap, it's fairly illiquid. It's probably quite
easily to manipulate that floor price. When we break down NFTs, they're all fairly low market cap, especially in an ecosystem like, for example, Abtos, where the largest NFTs are probably just over a million and a half. If you're offering some kind of perpetual
It's a lot of risk.
to a smart idea from a protocol standpoint to offer that, just because you'll probably get burned eventually. Sharky Fives made it work and they've done extremely well. So kudos to them. But yeah, it's an interesting concept. Some of these things can be realized more
easily on a chain-like Ethereum or it's layer 2s. But when we start talking about some of these smaller ecosystems with less liquidity, less end users, just smaller assets as is, there's a lot more risk with any of these DeFi concepts. So yeah, it becomes an interesting conversation.
Paying if you want to follow up man, I'm just here learning about the whole NFT Fiscock concept dude. This is like rocket science to me brother completely I don't know man, but yeah the discussion where I was trying that where I was trying to point it out is that like
I feel like at the current moment projects that are trying to get some limelight. Just in general, they're trying to over-complicate stuff and you end up putting yourself at a risk for some 2008 stuff, right? You don't need to have so many synthetics.
and so much collateral based things that earn yield on your asset. I think we should just go back to some grass root stuff. If you're gonna have an NFT, yeah go ahead and have some perks at it but when you start trying to over
over, pontify it, you end up burning, you end up just burning an entire community and we don't like the cop out as always over drove a token or we're doing staking and it's all the same Ponzi just re-packaged, it's all just you know inflationary yield. What I think
without you and it's just no value. Nobody's buying these tokens. It's literally just exit like it's just exit liquidity straight up. I've known the only one I can think of that did decent is ape and that's just because that basically a VC backstop like every single other token, whenever the project wants
is a token, the token kind of ties the value down to a project to a certain extent. The cool cats suffered a lot because they dropped a token and they just went straight to zero, basically. I think people are still trying to do the same formula. I don't know
I'm not a founder. I don't have the answer for like what's gonna switch it up like I said the only project I truly think that actually has some merit and like has not you know It's like original and like really sticks out to me is like more ladies and remilias and then like that's pretty much it like with as far as
You know if you look at all the quote unquote blue chips from last and like don't get me wrong. I love NFC's and I love trading them, but You know, I think people Really get burned because they get super attached to these communities and they think you know like
It's just gonna be like that forever. Like I remember with alien friends I was that was like one of the first like really big wins that I caught and I bought a bunch of those like point one East and Sold them at like three East and like there was people who were just like you know just made like just made
have like 40k and unrealized gains and they're just like oh these are gonna be the next base and now like now they're literally like 300 bucks well I think I think a couple things right I think that it's just general era in my opinion right now but sorry I can see I think a general right I think that the
that NFT-Fi in my opinion is just a, it's just sort of like part of the course of how any sort of market or how any financial markets has developed, like you sort of build or focus on robust spot markets that have now been around on that of T-side of things for one
two years, the Cuderdipules, AMMs, all that sort of stuff now. And so I think that NFT buys just sort of like taking that to the next step where like you own a ton of different sort of NFT assets and like you want to get, you know, you want to get East because you sort of own a base or a Racy, whatever that it is. And then you want
you want to go from there and you want to hedge and so you want Perps to hedge because NFTs are only long lonely now. And then I think to this piece of just NFTs in general, I think that I sort of question I guess the
I guess your points made around some of the different communities. I think that that like NFTs right now, I think that Why I think even NFTs are having any sort of volumes at all is I think it's sort of this fundamental shift in in how I think social
is just social media in general is now sort of at its stage, which is that like 10 years ago the sort of focus on social from Facebook and others was to get you to really add as many friends as possible. But now that's really not the case, like you've already added
know as many friends as possible. And the shift is now to get you to join as many communities as possible. And so like, like, you know, we talk about like what the most important thing of, you know, all of the project is and it's really community and that goes to just how people are interacting now is just much more on
a sort of community or more niche basis around communities and NFTs are just a different sub-sector of that. And I think that if people want to also put their sort of money towards that sort of community as they see as the potential utility,
I think that that's just sort of where we have gone as a society in general and I think we'll continue to trend that way until the next sort of phase of social is something entirely different from just communities. Maybe it's even more and more niche, which is potentially the case.
Yeah, I mean, I don't see it becoming more and more niche because I mean, I think that my just part of my overall thesis for tech is just like, you know, we're becoming more and more online. You know, people have been flexing since the beginning of time. So like, why would they not continue to do so online? We already saw, you know,
you know, glints of that last cycle. But the overall NFT market cap is still like for Ethereum specifically is like only like 4% of Ethereum's market cap. So I think, I mean, that's going to be the highest growth sector within crypto next cycle, I think.
There's also a big you have to consider like the market of people it's it's basically not even the same people is like regular CT for the most part there's like a little bit across over with certain collections but for the most part like it's you know almost separate groups of people like there's a people that only trade NFTs
And like that's how they got into crypto. And I think there'll be a lot more of those people because there's not necessarily a ton of people that want to like buy a coin and like stare at a chart. But there's a lot of people that want to, you know, think some shit is cool and they like resonate with it and they'll, you know, like back hold it forever basically. So I think that's
like the NFC bulk is also just people like you know increasingly wanting to feel like they're a part of something like as we get more and more isolated just spending time on our computers and stuff it's like kind of sad but like I just I think it's probably inevitable that we all you know
I have more and more people like, you know, bridging on these platforms and if you're like accumulating a crazy, you know, good collections right now, I think you're gonna do really well next run once people come around them and like the stigma of them has died because I mean
And you ask pretty much anywhere on the street, like 99% of people think it's still like all a scam. And a lot of it is, but like it's not, it doesn't necessarily mean the entire concept is flawed or something. I think it's a great concept.
So yeah, I mean it's pretty much it for the NFC thesis, but I don't know if you guys have any panels.
Yeah, man. I have very little to contribute whenever it comes to like the broader like technologies that NFTs that they could produce right crap. I'm sorry guys. I literally mumbled my words there. What I'm in to say what
I have very little to say when it comes to NFT thesis and all that stuff. Gosh, I pulled off a Joe Biden, man. Sorry about that. But... - I'm sleepy. - Be well. - But honestly, man, when it comes to NFTs, I think...
Eventually, they'll be as accessible as a trading card. I know that's an analogy. People like Gary Vee in the mainstream media like to compare it to a Pokemon card. Eventually, at some point, they'll be just as accessible. Something as little as a QR code.
but instead of a QR code, it's like a trading card, right? But I mean, it's verified on chain. That's what's so cool is people are like, how do you own it? People still are on that. I promise if you ask pretty much anybody that's not into crypto.
Like what do you think of NFTs or like what do you think of you know? They're gonna probably ask you like oh like how do you like you know? It's not tangible. It's not physical But I think there's only like I still like few people that come like recognize the value in it still and you know those people that have like like
Basically every all the best performing assets, you know sounded absolutely cooked when they first came out, you know any if people are calling you stupid, you're investment that's usually bull is to be honest like I just You know a lot of people are like, oh, why are you buying these internet pictures or whatever and it's like dude?
I'd rather trade against other retailers than institutions and stuff, or massive market makers. I think it's easier. You can outperform if you really know what you're doing. You can spot trends and just know how to play the market.
Also, there's just random things that will pop off like, you know, checks, we're like $8 for a minute. That kind of started the whole open edition meta. Those random two and a half east, so it was like, you know, eight bucks to whatever, like,
6k or some shit like three weeks and so those those would be crazy opportunities sometimes man or if you just catch something It can really pay off and so it can really pay off dog. Yeah That's that's that's that's that's the medic can really pay off and look man
I guess we can just relax now man. I think we've discussed some pretty serious topics. So yeah, I invited a school fuckers up here. I'm assuming that's how you pronounce it. Just for the just just for the space man just to have some fun.
because it's fun to have general discussion all that stuff but then after that we kick it for about 10 to 15 and then we just have some general discussion. There's always a human behind every person that likes to do crypto and use and all that stuff so want to welcome
you up man I see you're a multi-chain AIO Dow and I have no idea what any of that means man but it sounds cool I know what a Dow is but the AIO I have no clue what it means man would love to know would love to know I'm sort of
Allowing the Aftos development teams to be my son pie and I'm your student so I'm ready I'm ready to learn man. What's going on brother? Thank you for coming up here, and I see we also have bone bone shaman's We'll start off with with with school
fuckers man so what's going on bro how you feeling? Good guys thanks for having me up here it's a pleasure yeah in fact for the AIO dowel part it's just all in one dowel we're pretty much trying to go as multi-chain as it gets we want to start out on haptos, sweet, hit-soul, ethereum, stacks, or BTC
H bar, cardano everything eventually and just kind of try to make a central hub for everyone and just to get along have fun we're gonna make claimables on each chain so you can build your full skeleton at the end and basically ties on to one big full skullfucker so that's kind of where we're going with that it's a freement just gonna be a
fun thing to just connect all the communities and change together. Yeah, and I think that's one aspect that people forget is that sometimes we're just here to have some fun man and that that's pretty cool bro. That's pretty cool. So Boneshomans, we'll go with you. What's going on brother? Thanks for coming up on the show.
Good morning guys, I'm glad to be up here. Thank you very much for bringing me up here. So Bonsha Mons, we are a collection that intends to become a focal point between art, tech and community. So in such a way that one's
holders of our NFTs hold any of our collections you'll be able to get access to any of the three of which we are a focal point in. So at the moment we are building a marketplace, an NFT marketplace called Bone Club, AI Barred Marketplace.
the marketplace that basically combines automation and AI technology together. Then we also have our second platform which is our Nexus platform which is a freelance platform
that is catered to what's found us of Web3 projects. So, our basic plan is to combine the NFT market and the freelance market together in such a way that it helps the entire Web3 ecosystem grow.
That's awesome bro, you're in the trenches dude good to have you up here brother, but Yeah, if you guys enjoyed this space if you guys are enjoying the space feel free to follow us here at because Bitcoin My name is lobby. I host these kind of spaces all the time today was a very very you know
new style of space. You guys know that usually whenever I have guests on, it's typically ecosystems of the community is not even vaguely but more active right and
and by active I mean things like Ethereum and Cosmos and things like that. But it's always nice to discover new communities. I know recently we had some people from Elrond and today we have Abdos and typically with these newer ecosystems over the next bull cycle they tend to kick off.
And yeah, it was a pleasure having you guys on and I'm looking forward to the next one. And yeah, bones will keep in touch, of course. And I'm very excited to see what's going to be developed over the next year. And hopefully we can host Mo.
over the next year too. I think that'd be pretty sick always like communicating with founders and all that stuff. We recently had, we recently had us through Ram from Eigenlayer and also Keon from Monad and Matt Katz from Caldera and
Absolutely brilliant minds so looking forward to connecting with Mo at a later date sometime in the future So thank you so much, bro. I was brought for coming up on thank you stars and thank you for all the three NFT collections that came up and Also lore this discussion this discussion
was pretty neat. You know, definitely out of my comfort zone and that's the way that you get better in life by getting out of your comfort zone and trying to learn something new and being exposed to communities that you don't really have experience roaming about in. So I want to give a shout out
again to no historical for being sponsored the space today. And thank you all once again. This replay of the space will be up on our YouTube channel. So I guess we can say, you know, what are some closing thoughts that you guys have bones?
Thank you so much for having us here. Yeah, you know, tsunami. We're currently in our closed test net alpha. Feel free to come by our discord. And, you know, we can probably hook you guys up with the link if you'd like to participate on it. We will be
be going to mainnet pretty soon here. It will be very exciting to have an actual trading platform go live on the App Toacyco system where people can go long and short with leverage and a real legitimate earn product where people can earn. Blue Chabassets like Big
So yeah, we're very, very excited about everything. We also have some really cool NFTs that will be coming out eventually, obviously as we want to combine NFTs with some of our earned products and basically just give holders the ability to receive real yield in the form of the AppTos and Bitcoin and Ethan stay there.
And so yeah, come buy your discord if you guys go ahead and drop a because Bitcoin in our discord general chat We'll go ahead and give you our OG role and that'll eventually give you our original NFT But yeah, thank you guys so much for having us here. I'm sure if
If you go by Startspace at Discord as well, drop it because Bitcoin will hook you up with some cool stuff as well. We just appreciate you guys for supporting the App Toz ecosystem. Hope to do more of this. No problem. No problem. Stop by step bro.
So once again shout out to our sponsor Nol's protocol. They're a non-Costodial crypto lending app with some pretty unique features for the borrowers. They offer loans that are under collateralized with financing up to 150% without the risk of liquidation through its defy lease solution. They'll be going main now.
at some time in May or June. Shout out to them. Check them out. They're up on the pin, comment up on the nest. So thank you all so much. And it means the world to me if you guys can follow because Bitcoin, every follow counts and your support means the world. We'll be back tomorrow at two
We're going to be hosting a few projects from the Phantom ecosystem. We're going to be hosting a liquid driver and also equalizer. And, yes, stay tuned for more of our shows. And as usual, take care everyone. God bless you. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Peace out, guys.

FAQ on #bitcoin Crypto and Tech talk : Aptos Defi , NFTS , and MOVE $APT | Twitter Space Recording

Who are the special guests joining the podcast?
Tsunami finance, Starspace, and the Pandas Awakening.
What is Tsunami Finance?
Tsunami Finance is a margin trading and spot exchange platform built on Apptos.
What is unique about Tsunami Finance's approach to pricing?
Their pricing is not dependent on the price curve of assets, making it different from other AMMs like Uniswap or Balancer.
What are TLPs on Tsunami Finance?
TLPs are pool LP tokens that minimize the risk of permanent loss through diversification and maximize rewards by generating leverage trading fees on top of swap fees.
What is Starspace?
Starspace is a launch pad and NFT marketplace built on Apptos.
What is the Pandas Awakening?
The Pandas Awakening is an NFT collection on Apptos.
What is Nest Protocol?
Nest Protocol is a DeFi suite that will be launching a DeFi lease to reduce the risk of full liquidation.
What is Chingari?
Chingari is a popular social media platform based in India that is launching a web3 product on Apptos and an NFT collection.
What is the difference between programming languages Move and Solidity?
Move is faster and smoother than Rust on Salana, while the overall performance of Move chains like Apptos is better than other chains.
What unique capabilities does Apptos offer for NFTs?
Apptos can help address key problems in the NFT side of things, including volume and liquidity, and increase user accounts in DeFi.