hello guys we are waiting for other speaker to join be right back
hello guys can you hear me i see everyone is here hello hello hello henna we hate hello hey hi hey hi
well what about utopias arnold can you hear me yeah i'm here too i can hear you guys yeah yeah
wow thank you okay okay guys oh nice to meet you okay so let's start hello everyone i'm johnny
from coinix nice to meet you and thank you for joining us today before we start allow me to
introduce coinix we are a global crypto exchange established in 2017 offering various trading
services to users all over the world we regularly host online and on-ground campaigns and we provide
daily updates on the crypto industry be sure to follow our solo media for the latest information
okay so now let's dive into today's topic bikon huffing institution and you how to invest in
bikon next joining us today are industry leaders from several leading projects along with our
coinix research team i would like to invite our speakers to introduce themselves first
yeah let's start with arnold yeah hi um it's great to to meet you guys here and share my
point of view about bhag coin harving and the whole bikon ecosystems yeah i'm here because i am
the representative of a brc20 inscription the mice community yeah i know whether you guys hear about
anyway sorry i'm here on behalf of of mice community yeah and i'm also building on the
client-side validation protocols based on the RGB protocol to provide infrastructure
like wallet and decks and market and maybe stable coins based on RGB protocol and i'm happy to be
here to share my point of view about the whole bikon ecosystem and scouting solutions
about the you know about the bikon layer one yeah i'm getting interested in getting interested
in the inscriptions client-side validation and go-ups sidechains so i'm happy to be here maybe to
share my my view about or the possible ways to scale bikon meanwhile maintain the
consensus consensus of Nakamoto thank you guys thank you arnold i appreciate that
yeah we will listen your opinion later definitely whatever utopias
hi everyone thanks for having me it's a pleasure seeing so many faces here it's amazing
uh we are we are we started blockchain founders fund which is
you know very young or very early stage venture capital fund uh focused purely on web3
we've invested now in 170 companies and also in a couple of other funds we invest between
two hundred thousand dollars and five million us dollars um and you know all sorts of different
industries like defi infrastructure application there consumers and trying to understand what the
new trends 2024 and what's uh you know exciting for investors in the space and how can we get
more adoption especially from you know the mass user into the space in order to grow it
and you know of course make a return on the investment by investing in successful companies
all right thank you thank you thank you topias what about you henna
hi everyone and thank you for calling us help me for the speech uh space today so i'm co-founder
from marlin portico and marlin portico is uh bitcoin based asset adoption portico uh we are
focusing on to helping the bitcoin ecosystem asset should be adopted on the uvm system so currently
we already success helping the bitcoin and the brc20 and the bitcoin hedge power into the uvm
system and our background is from the bitcoin miner and we are enjoying the web3 area since 2017
so i'm really happy to share our insight with everyone today thank you i appreciate that henna
yeah yeah uh you know like it seems like uh jamon is this uh his signal is off
but it's okay we can talk uh we can continue first of all yeah
hello will can you hear me will hi yes hello everyone my name is will and i'm a researcher
from coins research team and i'm responsible for purchase new analytics in secondary market
it's my pleasure to join today's twitter space with other guests and thank you for joining us today
that's it okay thank you thank you well yeah it seems like it seems like um jamon is
somehow is cutting his signal so yeah we can we can start off first and we will join you right back
okay so let's start the first question okay so apparently because price job in the first trading
days of the spot bitcoin ETF approval you know like it's surprisingly bitcoin did not go to the
moon as optimus or most of us expected and you know like the worst thing is even job 20 from
the previous month high the job in bitcoin's price is somehow quite inconvenient or at some point
some even say it's embarrassing for the crypto community who claim the spot ETF approval will
be the shiny moment for the crypto world to spread out to the world like what what are the reasons
behind the price job is that a good job or a bad job
what's your feel on that arno
hello can you hear me arno oh hey hey yeah i'm trying to understand your your question now
as i think that's uh that's not uh that's not abnormal to see that as a bitcoin price stays
stagnant recently because actually the uh the approval of ETF um actually has some influence
on the bitcoin price but not in a pumping way but in a dumping way because you know many
institutional or the way bitcoin holders has a chance and has a liquidity to to dump their
bitcoin to to to to to to change it to to s dollars um the um the major seller is uh is uh
it's grayscale it's grayscale i think and many and many owned and many data like sex data and
also uh the on-chain wallet tracing data has proved that that grayscale is dumping their bitcoin
to the whole market and i think that you can uh research on the uh uh correlation between bitcoin
price and the not stock index and the snp snp 500 index as uh you know the um so-called risky
assets like uh not stock index and spnp index uh has sort of risen recently uh primarily uh
during the first months of 2024 but bitcoin rather um stays stagnant because
uh many bitcoin holders especially the short-term holders are selling their bitcoin
because of the inflow of liquidity and also the well institutional bitcoin holders like grayscale
or maybe other that has suffered during the last barrel market has the desire to dump their bitcoin
to compensate for their early investors and holders i think that's uh that's that's normal
to see that bitcoin's price stays stagnant recently and i think that uh according to the
trending uh the up the upward trend of not stock index and snp index bitcoin will follow up
during maybe the march or april as firstly the bitcoin harvings is about to come and the
you know the the sudden decrease decrease supply of bitcoin will definitely rise in price
and also the um we the market and also many uh five financial institutions has uh have anticipated
that um the the fat the fat is going to um cut off the uh the interest raising that they are doing
for like one or two years because the inflation has been controlled and the uh uh and the decrease
and the depression of u.s economy is not anticipated so uh with uh dual effects of bitcoin
halving and the uh fat cutting the uh the federal rates i think will be like a booming market
for all of us in the coming 2024 and the last one for you thank you okay thank you for sharing
yeah what about what about two p.s and henna what are your views
hi um so my idea i think that's probably a good job because um because we're from the bitcoin
miner definitely a bitcoin believer for the long run i i think uh definitely the privilege for that
but i think short term is for more people they just kick out the profit uh because the good news
release i think that's uh makes sense for if you are a trader but as more i knew most of the
um the holder they didn't uh they didn't so they are uh spot bitcoin and also they
think there may be a good uh spot to they could buy more so i think that's uh good for
long run actually and also uh because we can see at the price like uh 13 000
there are the buying power is strong so and i think that's that's also a great sign and
uh but actually but after the etf i think bitcoin will be just more like a commodity
just similar as the gold and could be become more like a ingest for um like for for the
crypto or even to being pat on the real trading market um so i think the volatility will become
like less than before for for sure and yeah i think but because still we have the horizon and
so i think for long run you will still the price will increase because the cost for mining
will be after this uh horizon that i think the price for mining for each coin will close to
13 000 or even above so i think it's definitely a good sign for uh the long long holder so that's my
input thank you thank you henna yeah maybe i jump in as well um so i mean there are a couple of
things here right number one of course i i'm a big believer that most of the most of the sentiment
was already priced in because it was more or less a given that it's going to happen
right i think no one was surprised once it happened and there was countless
um you know media confirmations and and and tweets about it so although there you know
technically has a big impact it was it was already given that it's going to happen so
that's why it didn't actually i didn't expect it to make that big of a price movement
number two just because it is approved doesn't mean that every asset manager who's currently
offering ETFs is going to use it right there's also a couple of institutions who said it's just not
our thesis it's not our um it doesn't fit our company so not everybody ended up actually
offering it to their customers some of course did but again um the institutions are buying
the bitcoin it's not necessarily the clients buying it right because they're just buying
a financial instrument which gives them exposure to it that's basically what the ETF does but they're
not necessarily holding any bitcoin i do think it has a you know a good starting point for a lot of
institutions to eventually venture into other ETF products right there's been talks about ethereum
solana any other bigger cryptocurrencies which are out there so i think we're hopefully going to
see some of this adoption right there uh when it definitely you know the news and of course
all the talks about it made um i think brought it brought it back to the table i think it
hopefully added a bit more legitimacy to to the industry and um i think that's what i'm excited
about but like we haven't really seen any true institutional adoption in my opinion but even
this ETF thing is not necessarily intrinsic adoption of crypto it's a product which
definitely brought some liquidity into the space um you know we also saw the coin obviously dropping
quite a lot um because a lot of bitcoin was moved to coinbase as a centralized exchange
to liquidate and so on and so forth so yes i do think it's positive when we are all excited about
it but i wasn't expecting a new all-time high or anything just because of so many other reasons
which stand behind this approval and the acceptance idea of it
thank you topian thank you for sharing here anything to add on well
hello will uh hello hello i agree with uh henna and anno and topia's and we also have some
perspectives to expand and supplement uh we think there are uh three possible potential
returns uh first of all because the entire market include bitcoin has experienced significant growth
in price and trading world in the past quarter and wireless hotspots uh in the entire crypto circle
have continued to consolidate uh before the hawing pool market begins there may be a short
period of correction and uh consideration consolidation time allows the entire future
trend to be relatively healthy and the expectation before the bdck benefits are realized we will
help the market development very well once the benefits are realized many profit makers will
choose to take profits this is also a relative common phenomenon in financial market and like anno
said uh the bdc the gbtc has so more than 10 000 bdc which includes fts life scale holding selling
pleasure and more than one billion dollars as well as bdc short-term traders the host who made
profits after last year's rebound and and plus for example sales is unstaking eth as well as
multi-cost 20 000 bdc will be released in the next two months uh it's expected that the market will
still be under continuous selling pressure in the coming period and that's it thank you will
yeah it sounds like all the speakers uh we agree on that is the price job is anticipated and
yeah like like henna mentioned it might even go job below than 40k even 30 000 something
yeah to add on from there does bcon still have a chance to reach a lower price
before happening like how long will the bcon price shop continue or at some level what are the
size of the bull market we start do you guys see that yeah what's your feel on that arno
uh sorry can you repeat your question yeah sure like uh i was asking like uh does bcon still
have a chance to reach a lower price before happening yes but i think there's um the downside
uh the downside for bcon price i think it's uh maybe uh 38 or 37 thousand dollars i think
because um there's strong support power supporting power uh around like uh
for 40k so i don't think will be that low but uh due to the stagnant trend of bcon i think
yes we are nothing uh the upward trend of bcon price so there will be a chance to
to hit to hit a lower price than the current price but i think that's uh normal and stable
for bcon price and there will be a upper trend i think maybe next month or a march
thank you arno what about you henna
hi for for this i i think that maybe you will consolidate for maybe one or two months
but uh as what i mentioned uh because the harris is coming so uh that definitely will have a very
big volatility at that time and also i agree with uh topia is was mentioned because uh for
who is trading the etf most of them they are not like the typical crypto trader most of
them are institutions so they definitely need some time to figure out they uh also they need to ask
their uh customer and uh their clients and the market uh like the feel for that if they
interested in invest on bitcoin but uh if we look at the trading brand for the bitcoin etf
it definitely means there are a lot of people interested on this to trading this uh so i
think that's still really like a good side for people at least uh open a gate uh look uh open
a gate away for the traditional investor to get in so i think we need to give give some room for
them for sure and also the fundamental uh will be changed on the after the horizon so uh i i don't
think the consultant late will be too long uh but i think one or two months it makes sense
uh yeah it will be between maybe thirty uh thirty seven thousand two uh because we see the price
right now is uh fourteen three fourteen four so i think we'll be become i will be in this range
to consolidate yeah that's my point thank you sir very detailed sharing
what about you tovius any thought about the prize
no that's a good question um so i think uh yeah i think that's probably gonna be some movements
happening maybe even like some down movement uh it's mostly you know that there's some
downward strength before a major event is happening and i do think it is obviously a major event but
a lot of people are probably also unaware what it actually does i was mostly like the
crypto natives who understand what that what that means and why this is relevant but i do think um
you know it's probably gonna get hyped as well but again right i mean this is something people
have been talking for a long time now um so people are aware of it it's probably all surprised
into an extent so i do think you'll see some bit more volatility until then and then probably
like a slight upwards turn after but it's um it's again very sentiment driven right and i do think
there's more and more institutional investor comes in a lot of this short volatility will be leveraged
out right because there's a lot more capital move there's not much trading involved so it
will be different i mean it will be less volatile over time as that i also expected from this
whole etf approval thing happening but um but it's very difficult to make a prediction with
the actual price implication will be however i think it's going to be positive for the space
just because it's such a talk through topic but again at the same time it is also something
where we have seen already um you know a lot of sentiment already being part of the price i think
it's very similar to the etf situation just because it's so mainstream media right now where
a lot of people trying to buy in or or where you know speculate what the price will be and a lot
of positions have already been set thank you tobius what about you will anything to add on
uh sure uh from my point of view i personally hope that you can return to around 25k personally i
return to before the market starts in the first quarter of last year so i can finish the
bullets uh we think that although there has been a positive present from the dank upgrade in the
near future the dank upgrade itself will not have very significant impact on the performance of the
entire uh market and we think that the entire crew market need to wait until around the
pickle halving to end the shock and restart the bull market which may also be superimposed on
the recovery of overall liquidity in the united states and more funds will enter the financial
market such as the federal reserve starting to cut interest rates and that's my point of view
okay thank you will yeah let's put let's put the price aside like we're looking from the
history perspective you know like the bitcoin halving but bitcoin etf approval they mark a huge
milestone for crypto now the real test begins we we all have to face a real test can bitcoin become
more than an alternative access but looking at the bitcoin etf trading problem seems earlier this
month what can we tell yeah what's your point on on on on bitcoin's position henna
yeah at that point i mean for uh for for bitcoin itself i i think it's definitely uh etf
approved is a good sign for bitcoin uh because there will be more people could join to play that
but for me for for my personal perspective i still i i wanted could keep that decentralized you
know because i i think that uh because a big why bitcoin is renewable it's because it was
uh really the first and unit uh the use case for the decentralized and also for the crypto
and for the web3 but right now after uh actually i really interesting to see uh address uh all
those traditional capital getting how how how leverage i think you you you become a game theory
to uh the typical crypto holder and uh uh the capital right so i i really want to see what
will happen and i think it takes time maybe uh and also i think this time uh the horizon
the the the effect for this horizon will be different than before as well it's it's not like
bid uh i what what we traditionally to use uh to um uh the price so so i think that that is already
interesting uh things i i will i want to see but uh because the etf already passed so it
definitely for for bitcoin itself is uh it's a bid milestone for for sure and then it's not
only for crypto but right now it's for a whole crypto uh a whole uh financial market so yeah i i
think that's still a good side but uh still long way to go to become the major that uh that's my
thank you thank you henna what about you arnold and hobbies what are your views
oh well uh i think it's my turn and i think that uh bitcoin is definitely the um a major
alternative uh set in the world actually uh because uh you know before the etf's been approved now you
can go first right and then i finish up okay no problem yeah let's go on okay uh so uh before
the you have been proved uh actually bitcoin's uh market cap has things uh the tense the tense
the tensor set uh uh throughout the uh all the other assets uh in the world so uh i say it's uh
already being a major alternative asset in the world so i think that's another question at all
so after the uh it can be improved uh we can assume that the capital from war street
from silicon valley from from europe and from you know all over the world you know the
because the usa is the hometown of the worldwide capital as a worldwide capital
gaining access to uh uh the bitcoin and can buy and trade bitcoin and yeah so what's
no one talking uh i think tovias cannot hear me but uh
oh yeah can you hear can you hear honestly tovias here he's speaking now oh i cannot hear him i
don't know why yeah that's a that's a bug of tutor yeah we should play in your mask
but fine just let me know when he's done so i can also talk yeah sure yeah sure yeah
yeah yeah so uh so uh yeah my main argument is that uh before the it had been proved uh the
bitcoin has been the 10th biggest set in the world and after the etf been proved you know the
worldwide capital will come to the us and buy bitcoin with us dollars i think there'll be nothing
but a positive effect to the bitcoin and i think bitcoin has a very rare uh position
and make it like limited and has uh scarcity and rarity to be the valuable value uh star
ration like a digital gold i think digital gold is uh a very proper description for the bitcoin
although uh you know we think we think uh the gold is real but actually the supply of gold
actually uh the supply of gold growth every year yeah in the world yeah but for bitcoin
these is over all growth for bitcoin it's uh it's just um uh set it's limited but i think it's
even better than gold and i think that the you know gold and bitcoin show the same uh value
um initialization uh like uh gold uh why do you think gold is real because uh all of us
like a southern of history of human of human society we think we we all think that the gold
is real because it's maybe it's hard to mine or it can be trade or it's beautiful or something
but also bitcoin's value comes from the consensus of all the bitcoin believers of our crypto
industry believers of our builders in our industry and all over the world and i think the ETF approval
will definitely strengthen the consensus of bitcoin and the consensus of bitcoin implies the value of
bitcoin yeah very insightful thank you arno yeah what are you feel on that yeah arno just mentioned
that yeah bitcoin is like uh is its its attitudes on on the consensus and it's more like a digital
goal yeah what are you feel on that tobius sorry i couldn't i couldn't hear him unfortunately
so can you just quickly can you say again what did he say with consensus no like yeah
arno basically concluded bitcoin is a digital digital goal yeah and um yeah therefore it's
more than just alternative assets oh i see okay um yeah i mean uh i mean it's uh
it's a true statement i would say very generic statement but um but but most people are not
using it for any transactional value right and no one is no one is um doing anything in bitcoin i
mean that this new brc 20 narrative i think could be interesting and give this whole thing a bit more
of a program ability and we also just recently invested in two companies using that narrative
so i think the bitcoin narrative in itself would be a lot more interesting in 2024 i think it's
one of the most exciting narratives probably for 2024 at least as of now where we see a lot of
capital being deployed and most of the companies are being to an extent oversubscribed in the
round if they have um you know something stablecoin and bitcoin or lending protocols and all these
seven things um so yeah i agree with the the statement that is more of store of value right
now um people buy it and hold it for a potential increase in price they have a profit but i think
that's not what the idea for bitcoin should be right a lot of bitcoin maxis at the end of the
day they are sitting on a bitcoin especially massive mining companies who are accumulated
uh and accumulated especially a lot of um you know bitcoin in that space so i do think there'll be
more actionable things happening within within bitcoin right um i think that's what also be a
big driver for this upcoming bull market um so yeah i'm very positive i'm very excited about
this like i said you've already done two investments and there's a lot of other companies which i'm
in talks about right now for understanding exploring this narrative a lot of funds are
very bullish on the two um and i think that's kind of like where we see a lot more action
happening in 2024 besides the usual stuff um because there's always some sort of trend
building these markets right if it's gaming or defi or things like this and then i think in
in this year it would be a lot of focus on infrastructure bitcoin
um and really building this out for making smoother applications possible
uh sure uh we're sharing from other guests and we send that at the bitcoin is no doubt that
after the approval of bitcoin spot etfs bill has the federal economy manager said that can be
safely invested it means that the retail investor and institutional user in the vast market can
participate in bitcoin investment uh in comments with uh regulation and loss and as for gbtc uh
which has the largest many various amount of bdctf uh its average daily training value is about
600 to 700 million dollars uh it's a generally a good figure at the beginning uh as the crypto
bull market begins in the future uh beginning the future the btc is crushing you on other invest
targets will surely attract the attention of the world and uh you will drive a blowout in
training world for btc etfs oh that's my profile thank you will yeah and like you know like uh as
we are getting closer to the upcoming bitcoin happening day this is also where we can learn
about the so-called four year cycle yeah we wonder is the four year cycle a myth or is the reality
what are the key considerations for investors associated with happening are there any common
misconception about the bitcoin happening that investors should be aware of
what's your take on this henna hi um for this i i want to say uh what we talk about the positive
is for long run but uh for the harassing i uh i have to say it doesn't mean at that
day it will pull up a lot and yeah because uh you know the only uh one who get uh impact
immediately is the miner but uh because uh the cost for each bitcoin again is become more
expensive but uh we still uh but right now if we're talking about trading and also the uh for
commodities uh a lot of people they still uh holding uh the bitcoin so they they won't impact
immediately so it normally like takes few months for for them to actually we add so so that's the
point so uh don't put your uh leverage too much on on to begging this hurricane so that's
that's one one thing that we might and also like what i was mentioned at this time will be
a little different than before because uh in the past we only uh trading in the uh
crypto area but right now this time we have the etf and we have our institution and uh we don't
know what they go to uh like uh impact on on the whole market so uh that's also uh need to
pay attention on that but one thing is for for sure there are definitely will have a lot of
volatility at that time and uh because the market if we see the high trading value is because
uh the market always have a people uh like in in the like in different side right so definitely
will be uh volatility there so uh if you are doing uh some like uh like arbitrage trading i think
that's definitely a good time to uh play so so that's my uh perspective for that thank you
my sharing thank you henna yeah i'm not sure if you can hear Arnold saying but
tobius maybe you can start your start your sharing first
yep can you hear me yep yep i can hear you now i'm clear oh okay awesome um
uh yeah no i mean i think it's a very interesting
point of conversation right i think um what i wanted to quickly emphasize and
there's a slightly different point but i think it's important to note here because
you know we obviously been talking about bitcoin and i think um what we realized as a fund
is that once bitcoin was hitting 45k a lot of old wallets were reactivated right a lot of people
um were holding bitcoin we're actually looking to invest especially out of the
i would say hong kong china ecosystem a lot of people messaged us and was like hey whatever deal
you're doing we're supporting that deal we want to get exposure into projects um and uh
especially like from a venture capital perspective it's always being driven by certain narratives
what we have never seen is that the whole space was picking up right it was always let by certain
verticals and um it is actually kind of crazy i would almost say that
you know and i also put out a big linkedin post a couple couple days ago
that it feels like we're doing similar mistakes again right i mean great deals which are
falling into these narratives they are immediately oversubscribed right sometimes they're raising a big
amount of money with only having a pitch deck or no product or not even a pitch deck right like
there's no defined terms investing for tokens nothing um and i feel there's a there's a big
discrepancy here right i mean the space is trying to be more legitimate regulations are going
to come in and um you know every countries or a lot of countries are trying to regulate in
different ways which causes a headache for founders but at the same time it's the investors
and also everyone else who is investing in bitcoin and things like this to evaluate proper projects
right well like because that's eventually what's going to drive the space forward um and right
now i think you already reached a little bit of a irrationality that just because something is hot
or something is an interesting segment of the space um people are rushing into without doing
proper due diligence um and yeah i mean if you just buy bitcoin obviously buy from solid
exchanges or and put it on cold storages and all these things to make sure that you know you have
full control over them but also if you're looking to angel invest if you're looking to invest in
related projects which are building on bitcoin for example like i think it's getting extremely
important that you do your research because we're not yet in an era where everything is
regulated and you can trust that these things have proper setup that there's entities there that
there's um you know tokenomics designed properly all these things so i think um we've reached a
space where we have to think differently it's not how to get rich overnight by being in crypto
i think it's how can we fund and support sustainable projects to actually build strong
use cases and especially with my institutional investors space right i mean we have
a capital fund we are connected with most every single venture capital funds in the space i
believe i've also co-invested with them and we do see already just money flying around right
it's almost reached that time in 2020-21 where it seemed like if you're in the right segment
money is a given right and that was a long term of the case like for the last
i would say two months a lot of projects were struggling um and uh very few new capital was
injected into the space it was mostly traded between the people in the space so as we see
that stopping and as we see you know altcoins picking up because bitcoin is moving ethereum
is moving meme coins are being introduced in the space again in certain new interesting areas i
think it's on everybody's part to really you know have an impact in a way that like you're
supporting the projects that that actually makes sense right and i think that's where
the research is needed like crypto crypto is not long not longer the space where you can just
put your money anywhere right now just because of bull market you're going to make money
you want to make that sustainably there is a little bit of work involved there's obviously
great platforms out there which help you to do so but i think that's where like we have to make
a big distinction because otherwise you're going to end up in similar projects that they misuse
customer funds or that they are doing whatever and eventually a lot of people get hurt or lose
their funds which is basically the hard-earned money hmm thank you yes what about you a few alno
hello alo can you hear me oh yeah sorry i can't repeat the question please
yeah yeah sure yeah we we are talking about like uh it's a four-year cycle is uh is is that a myth
or a reality this time like as in as in is this time the four-year cycle theory
still gonna work this time yeah and then uh what else we should be aware of for the upcoming
speak on helping yes um i think the the four-year cycle is just uh you know i i don't understand it
as uh as a myth or something because uh you know it's a simple logic about the the the price
determination the price is determined by supply and demand and when we anticipate the supply
uh will decrease so that definitely the price will rise because we we think the
supply will will will be decreasing uh but uh that kind of uh uh but that kind of logic will be
weakened every time when the bitcoin has itself as uh you know uh we see uh with with with the
time going there will be more and more bitcoin be mined out so the price will um more likely than
not be determined by the in-market volume of bitcoin rather than the unmined bitcoin supply
so uh this effect will be weakened every four years but i i still think uh this year might be a
um i might be uh altering point for uh for for for this myth because uh bitcoin ETF
improved and it has been a mainstream uh mainstream assets and the way we determine the price of
bitcoin will more likely than not be determined by war street by finance by the bitcoin holders by
the in-market volume rather than the unmined volume on bitcoin so uh yeah but uh i think
is that still good because uh the the prices is actually not determined by the current state
by the actual state of supply demand but be determined by the ndc paid state by the
prediction of of demand and supply of a bitcoin so uh if the market if the majority of markets think
that the bitcoin halving will decrease the supply of bitcoin then the price will go up
according to the predictions because everyone wants to buy before the halving so i still think
yes that's uh firstly that's a simple demand supply logics of economics and then it's about the
people's prediction of supply is a potential decreasing and that causes the buying action
of the whole market before the halving yeah thank you thank you honor yeah what about you will from
a research perspective what's your take on it oh i agree with that note and i have some
perspective to expand and supplement and i think the cycle for is real uh because of scarcity like
anna said the halving event caused the new supply of bitcoin in half uh so throwing down the creation
and race of new bitcoins into segregation uh as the amount of btc grows around the world especially
from the institutional retail investor the increased scarcity could drive out the price and also the
market's attention to the halving event and the halving is highly anticipated event and has received
received widespread attention from the media the invested and industry participants this
increase uh attention can attract more participants and investor to the market thereby will boost
trading activity and potentially drive them to about the overall market capitalization we can look
better specific president of the whole market of the multiple harvings looking bad at the
halving in 2012 2016 and 2020 there will be a sharp pricing increase after each halving
the last i think is the micro economy factors the micro economy environment including the liquidity
and the monetary policy has a significant impact on the price of bitcoin for example the 2012
the bitcoin bull market coincided with the federal results the surround of con quantitative easing
and the european central banks losing monetary policy uh the same thing happened during the
covid-19 2020 uh from uh investment perspective uh we still recommend that the investors should
choose a more appropriate price to enter the market before the halving yeah before the halving
because once you enter a bull market cycle it will be difficult to find the right time to get
on board and then enter the market at a relatively high price in the future yeah
thank you will yeah just that henna mentioned about um we don't know what's going to happen
if more institutional investors go in the market and how it might affect the four-year cycle
yeah let's add on from there yeah this question is going to be how might the entry of more big names
more institution investors into the bitcoin market going to affect the individual investor
yeah can you please elaborate a little bit more on that henna hi uh yeah for what i think um first
i i don't know what's going to happen but what i thinking is the volatility overall will be
reduced a lot so it's not easy to uh drop like 18 or 70 percent or bitcoin price but it's also
really difficult to if you invest fuel money and get rich overnight so and also everything
have been easier to calculate at least we could still seeing the all-time high the 16 000
is still ahead right so i think that's uh and also if uh if people knowing how the
institution they're trading they they won't be uh like this aggressive for uh pop trading they
mostly uh have a longer strategy so definitely i think the volatility will be reduced uh for sure
and also i think uh the for the bitcoin player uh uh the the overall uh charge is become higher
so right now if you are small or individual i think bitcoin probably not a good target for you
but it probably will become a index so you you know okay so because um i pull up that means maybe
the bull market is coming and for sure there will be a lot of smaller project will start to
have some kind of movement right no matter like biko bitcoin ecosystem or some like yeah
issuance or shana or something so everyone is looking at bitcoin to do their movement so
that's for sure and i think uh there were more opportunities for them and also because
the compliance and reputation so most the institution player they may not use it to gain
to those small coin so probably uh will become the market will become like bitcoin and all coin
so all coin may be more for you uh individual or some like uh venture capital who have a
really good uh inside for the overall market and could do a very good research i think that's
that's probably what will be happen that that's my input thank you thank you henna
what's your view on that pobias
can you quickly summarize uh what henna said because it was a bit of a bad connection on
my side to cut out sometimes for me yeah yeah sure yeah so um yeah uh this question is about like
uh how how would more institutional investor into the market will affect the individual investor
yeah it's a little bit what i what i said in the very beginning
but i think um what what's going to happen with the market in general once there's a
lot more institutional adoption is that a lot of the short term volatility will be traded out
right so you won't have these massive drops anymore immediately which is going to be
you know i say bitcoin already is a thing where you're not getting rich overnight right unless
you're using high leverage trading and you make this sort of your day trading mission
and you set a lot of trades it's already very difficult because it's such a high price for a
lot of people to buy in right i do think it still makes sense to accumulate it over time
and use a daily cost averaging method for example to get exposure to it
but even if bitcoin doubles right i mean that that's what it's not going to impact you
and a life saving right um that's where a lot of people move away and go into alt coins or meme
coins because they're looking for very short term return but i do think overall um what's going
to happen is that the industry just generally much matures right and like all these tag lines
went lambo into the moon and all these things will just be a lot harder to achieve um because
the market has been getting a lot more saturated a lot more capital has been moved a lot more
liquidity in the market um and it's just it's kind of similar to what happened to capital markets
right um it became a lot more stable it became a lot more mature i don't think it's still a
bit of time away there's still great opportunities to generate alpha and crypto
but that's that's eventually what's going to happen right especially if more countries are regulated
and institutional players even if they're listed for example or if they have a public presence
can safely engage it in the space um now we'll see a lot more um this type of adoption and for
individual investors for everyday investor i think it's now about like just clearly defining
risk for them right is that because i mean think keep in mind right if you're making 10 15 a year
you're still a very strong investor uh but that's typically not enough for most of the people who
are in the space because unfortunately it's still kind of like a lot of people see it as
you know becoming rich overnight kind of idea i think that's also helpful to the space right
because then it's just purely about pump and dump all the time and a lot of a lot of institutions
or hedge funds will use that narrative to benefit them because they have a lot more power they have
a lot more money they have a lot more liquidity that they can actually move markets on certain
projects um and that will benefit them in the end um and also i think you have to keep in
mind that bitcoin has the beauty there's a lot of liquidity happening right and some of the
mean coins but even if you are up a certain amount it doesn't mean that you can actually
liquidate that capital right um because it depends on the liquidity pools it depends on
so many things that you can actually get that money out into stablecoins and then eventually into
fiat for example if you want to so i do think i think it's great if there's a lot of institutional
adoption because it means that we have a lot more player it also means it as more regulatory
oversight which is needed because it also protects the customer in the end
because right now it's still to an extent somewhat wild west where it's you know very difficult to
recover any funds if they're lost because there's you know a lot of projects are still a scam
literally or have mismanaged funds and there was not much oversight to protect the consumer in
the end you've seen this very clearly over the last year and a half um but i'm very positive
about it right because it just gives the whole space a lot more legitimacy and it will also bring
more sense into the people who operate in the space that it has changed it's not to 17 anymore
right where you have icos and all these things and cisco goes crazy in the wild west it has to go
more towards that maturity and institutional adoption for you to operate safely and reasonably
in the space right and if you do that consistent you can still make great return um but it's
maybe not as overnight anymore as it was but it's great because it also attracts other people who
have a more long-term view in this who have a more long-term conviction on this rather than just
trying to you know create as much of as possible and leave without actually supporting the space
and the adoption and the applications that are clearly better than some of the two technologies
out there hmm yep thank you robius what about you arno
oh all right i don't have i don't have specific view about the institutional investors
uh i think here you know the um institutional investors dominant market will be more like
mature but you know zero will be um there'll be fewer like insider news or so
or it will be more difficult to manipulate the markets by one party but however i mentioned that
it will be easier to manipulate the markets by several parties together so yeah we we we will
still like need to uh understand the uh behavior logics uh for the uh bitcoin etf spot of already
uh asset management corporations from war street and um yeah and i i don't think that um
bitcoin in general will be friendly to the individual investor in small size
so i would say that uh that's why we need bitcoin ecosystem as uh it is it has a uh fewer uh it has
a fewer market cap has but it's based on bitcoin itself and it's uh traded with bitcoin so it's
more like another arena another playground for the individual investors with more checks
to join the crypto games so that's why i think we we need to develop develop to build on the
bitcoin ecosystem including inscriptions layer 2s and client validation products and so on
thank you Anu yep uh i just see jamon uh this requesting i'll let him in first
hello will anything to add on well
oh so uh uh we think that uh more institutional traders into the bitcoin market i miss that
there will be more and more powerful participating in in the entire market that you will inevitable
release to a strong games and mutual restrictions and reduce the market manipulation to a certain
instant generally bring the benefit to the overall development of bitcoin but the continuous
improvement of the bitcoin market and participation of more and more institutional investor also means
that uh it will be more difficult for individual investor to or retail investor to
obtain the Hispanic returns and successfully complete the profit taking uh it will be
more difficult for them yeah that's my perspective thank you will hey hi jamon can you hear me
yes absolutely yeah uh yeah yeah uh we glad you're here yeah glad you can make it back uh
so can you please introduce yourself before we uh continue the discussion
okay yeah sorry i joined uh late because my flight was late uh okay well this is uh jamon
from water droopy capital uh i'm the funding partner water droopy capital is uh winter capital
since 2017 and since two years ago we focus on uh become eco ecosystem investment
including the layer one assets and layer two assets also latin and RGB yeah i'm more glad
to join this space tonight yeah yeah thank you yeah uh yeah i just got a question where i call you
so yeah as an institutional investor what is your strategy on investing bitcoin ecosystem
like how do you think the institutional investor will react to the bitcoin happening
well uh talking about the bitcoin having well i think um basically there's no logic here
so i listen what do you say so a lot of people think that okay because of bitcoin having
the price of bitcoin will go up well this is not uh reasonable because because having is doesn't
affect the you know the output i mean the inflation rate so much after some after four
times of having so it's more like a psychological effect so everybody thinks that the bitcoin
having real brain something and it works especially uh when you know we we just uh
uh especially when you know the ETF got approved and uh the our uh the QE now is better than
the environment of for the QE better than last year and all of those factors they joined together
to make the price go up this is uh reasonable and uh talking about the price of bitcoin i think
uh it's good i think well there's no doubt that the price of bitcoin will go up probably go to
100k um but uh i mean for most of the people because they don't have much money or they are
not institutional for us we have three funds one winter capital fund and uh one
outcomes fund and one bitcoin only fund well for institutional investor it's okay for them to keep
more and more because to buy more and more because but for retail users of for
retail retail investors they don't have that much much money so i think um even when the price of
the bitcoin go to 100k it doesn't affect them too much because they're fortunately just a double
you know it doesn't change anything so however i think they should focus more on bitcoin equal
assess so it's including inscription or notes or lead to assess so the reason is that i think
the bitcoin ETF will bring a lot of newcomers for the crypto work you know before the ETF was approved
most of them never bought any bitcoin some of them even think bitcoin was a scam but
after black rock or fidelity those mainstream asset management company they uh you know have bitcoin
listed so there they will they will change their mind and they will buy their first bitcoin
but after they have their first bitcoin they might have their bitcoin wallet and i think
a lot of bitcoin wallet they will have latin or bear certainty integrated so
it will be very easy for them to buy their second asset so the second asset is not
it will be become equal assess so they will consume their bitcoin to buy other assets
on the complexion so right now we have uh uh inscription we have bear certainty we have ordinals
and later we will have bitcoin layer 2 especially those evm compatible layer 2
and uh on those evm compatible layer 2 we will have uh some dapps like unisap like like compound or
any other d5 uh projects you will find similar version on bitcoin ecosystem so that will um you
know you know that will be their first dpp of their first decentralized application and they will
get familiar with the whole bitcoin ecosystem yeah this is uh i think this is the biggest
thank you for sharing jamon yeah yep uh moving forward i have one for you henna uh can you
please talk about what merlin protocol is the product direction and the type of challenges
the portrait addresses okay thank you host and uh also i i really agree actually uh what
jamon say uh we all believe uh in bitcoin because uh we are as what i was mentioned uh we was uh
bitcoin miner and also we are already started a big bitcoin network technology for since 2017
so uh as always we are focusing on we release the d5 uh potential of bitcoin uh we um so at that
point uh i i really agree what the german say right now we could see how hot is the bitcoin
ecosystem and we're seeing a lot of new project uh the bitcoin layer 2 and also uh we could see
a lot of new things happening on with the bitcoin um ecosystem and also the use the technology
but uh but at the at that point we are still thinking uh because all the bitcoin uh layer 2
when they develop uh they need times but right now we could see uh uh it's already have a lot
of assets like for example the brc20 arc20 and they already released a feature on the bitcoin
consistent so uh where they where they could go at this moment right uh because if you are trading
because if anyone here in the space was trading the inspiration before you were knowing that that
was uh very less liquidity so how most of them is on the fair launch and so that means i think
that's also a two side uh first is you could see what's the power of community and everyone
fair but in the other side uh if uh the if a project when they are uh like raising money
but they didn't get that much and how they move forward so i i think that that's the challenge
also uh for the market for uh especially for now so uh what we try to do is uh we want to uh
uh use why we call uh abduction but not uh the bridge is we we want to help uh so first first
thing is we we want to create a decentralized channel to between the bitcoin uh with uh uvm
it's not like uh the wbtc because it's also a centralized but what we try to do is uh we we
want to make the epic coin asset could be uh like uh stay can unlock on the epic coin ecosystem but
it's a few it's a free way for them to uh could uh could use all those uh two already is this on
the uvm system and and then we use the way to release uh the bitcoin uh the the d5 potential of
bitcoin uh because i think bitcoin at this stage is more like still the most secure for uh asset
to be addition but uh we could leverage the tool already is this on the uvm system to help them
in the short term to uh growth and also like catch uh this horizon opportunity because if they wait
for the uh the layer two they are built and released it is definitely a long time and also
the tools in the ecosystem in bitcoin ecosystem is still uh early so uh also we are focused we are
um we're not going to build a layer two by ourselves but what we are see the opportunity
is more like uh some more uh infrastructure side for example the yin desert right so uh we go to
launch our uh yin desert oracle uh i think early next month and we we want to help make all those
uh like uh the inscription the all those uh uh the asset like for example crc20 they first
have uh the yin desert standard for them uh to be uh like so everyone could uh search their data
and uh do some analyze on them and also uh like made a short fundamental to be ready to uh leverage
with device so uh yes so here i i also think that if anyone here if you're working on uh
like brc country or the kind of asset or show the bitcoin layer two or if you are
uvl system but in shooting on building something on uh like the bitcoin ecosystem i you're welcome to
dm me that uh we love to uh help everyone on on those more um infrastructure side thank you
thank you henna yeah hey tobyas so as a fund that focus on adding value to blockchain
projects with the real world application what do you say about the bitcoin and the
bitcoin ecosystem do you see any potential in the bitcoin ecosystem getting into real life
yeah good question i think there's a couple of touch points here right number one
is uh like i said we just invested in bit smiley for example we're just trying to build stable coins
for the bs 2020 they're also mentioning by coin telegraph and you know a couple of other
predominant magazines they are you know just raised two million together with them
from a bunch of leading venture capital funds um like okx and abcde and many others and um
then there's also you know very interesting projects and lending
also in real world assets right where you basically can use your bitcoin to keep it
in crypto you don't have to convert it to stable coin you can generate real world yields on it
so i do think there's a lot of um adoption possibilities for bitcoin because right now
there has not been nothing really has nothing really has been utilized so much but a lot of
people sit on so much assets and values and liquidity and all these people are excited to do
something with their bitcoin right um so that's why i do think it's going to be a very strong
narrative moving forward and it's also being validated by you know some of the larger
bitcoin maxis being using these projects and they are all uh excited about it as well
i do think that there's still always that disconnect between bitcoin being gold digital
gold or like it's just a store of value and actually transacting with it which we haven't seen
yet much happening um so i think that narrative of something which we're probably going to see
slightly changing especially if you have more applications layer built on it that are actually
working and um yeah like i said it's uh it's one of the biggest narratives right now i would say
in this bull market at the moment um and there's so many projects trying to build on
the BRC20 ecosystem there's even funds which are purely focusing on bitcoin
which are popping up on the out of the ground right now especially what is quite interesting is
that that wave of innovation is mostly driven out of asia so the the biggest project you've
seen now in that space are sort of out of the hong kong area singapore slightly a lot
of chinese developers involved a lot of chinese investors involved it's not yet such a big
um i would say narrative which is driven from the us
it's mostly driven out of asia which is also exciting to see in my opinion
so yeah i do think there's a lot of interesting real world use cases with these solutions again
it will it will be it will be interesting to see how smooth the usage of those platforms actually
will be right uh how easy is it to interact with them um and and how many people are actually
going to end up using it rather than just using it for you know it because like gaming right i mean
gaming was awesome which was very hot but like not many companies and ended up being having playable
games and the same thing you can see here so um yeah i'm excited how it's going to play out but
as of now i think it's a very interesting narrative for 2024 for sure yeah i think the
upcoming hype is probably going to be social vine and uh device already in there yeah but
super vine game vine and even rwa will uh it's quite a good topic for use case yeah anyway thank
you thank you tovias hey i know yeah we all know that you're the one of the og's of the big one
ecosystem what kind of shares g do you have to capture the hot projects within the ecosystem
and usually how do you identify their value uh yeah right um i'd like to answer this question
in um in two perspectives one is how to um capture memes and one is um my point of view to
the whole bitcoin ecosystem and what's a potential value we can catch in the coming years so first
i think that uh you know memes never die they uh they just exist in different forms
we all know that uh in the brc20 inscriptions all these sets and rats the top three brc20
inscriptions are all memes yeah that's um that's that's really interesting as um
you know people are uh especially for the investors or researchers are dying are separate are desperate
for uh for the meaning or the value accrual of a certain coin but i think that uh you know
if um if we invest in meme coin that makes me invest in a coin that's with no hard cap
there's no there's no like the the project itself a team but uh a vibing community that can bring us
a lot of money yeah so uh yeah the meme is actually the the the symbol to represent
a specific culture like already is to represent brc20 and the whole inscription and sets
and with its uh which is uh high volume and uh and this
and the massive supply it means that uh uh the the the set holder can form a um a huge community
to support the the set price and also the whole inscription community that's the same logic
with thomakos atom and the quark and also the same logic with eths and the nodes and also
you know there are many um and also rats rats rats is another idea about the
massive supply it has uh uh one tenth million
of rats well one tenth million yeah one tenth million of rats so uh it has uh uh over
ten thousand holders address and that becomes a uh that makes him it easier to form a vibing
community with so many holders and also for mice uh you know mice is uh like the show the same
meaning of rats and it's also um like one hundred thousand one hundred thousand supply of mice and
nearly ten thousand holder addresses so uh this kind of uh uh meme coins can easily form a
a vibing community you know with uh thousands or even ten thousand of holders of people
participating in the events to like build and to do things and to promote to shilling so uh
yes the community and the holders amount so the holder's number actually is uh it's a great
parameters for for for the value of the the meme coin and there's uh any and there's some others
like uh uh one hundred thousand supply meme coins in brc20 uh besides rats and mice you know
for example leek recently it's a it's a vegetable rather than a animal and it um it goes to uh
like five multiples recently and as i think every small trend of the brc20 is led by a
one hundred thousand supply meme coin and that's uh an interesting discovery and and also um i'm
interesting in the um so-called utility tokens for brc20 and for example the uh swap uh like yeah bswp
dswp dswap for brc20 and also ain and real reo and yeah those utility tokens uh
uh represents a certain uh product but its price performance is determined
not by the community but by the product itself if the product does not if the team does not do
anything valuable then the price will just go down and lose liquidity yeah and uh enough for
the meme coin and brc20 session i'd like to share my point of view about the the whole bitcoin
ecosystem like uh besides the inscriptions i found something interesting uh and besides the brc20
and all the notes uh for example the thomikos protocol using pow consensus to to make the new
tokens and also the brc420 the merling chain i think their co-founder hannah is here with us
um yeah they did a great job in the uh nft of course and in nft inscriptions and also they
make the nft divisible with your merling chain in first set then technology i think that will be
that's a great practice uh for all projects uh and we like we we are familiar with those
projects that uh you know raise a lot of money and uh to you know um uh to tell their potential
users and communities that they raise a lot of money i will give you airdrop beside uh uh except
despite this situation i think merling chain and brc420 has chosen a different path to uh issue
issue a set first and then to bring more technology and to the assets i think that's a great chance and
i'm looking forward to the merling chain to to be launched on the mainnet this and also uh i care
much about the bitcoin scaling solutions like client side validation and layer 2s i know there
are many layer 2s nowadays for uh to scale bitcoin and most of them are uh zk's sovereign rollout
and use bitcoin as a da layer uh well i'm not that bullish on that kind of
logics but i do think that bitcoin needs a scaling solution to avoid the very high gas fee
that we encountered and we are induced in the recent months and we and this will be this this
problem will be more severe when the bitcoin is price going up so i think the scaling solution is
a must and i um i'm bullish on firstly the um uh stacks the uh the most popular and famous side
chain for bitcoin recently they will introduce a nakamoto upgrade to make a spdc double dual pack
pack the sets with bitcoin and to upload the every transaction history of stacks to bitcoin chain to
maintain the security and stability of stacks and i think stacks has its own virtual machine
and it's available to create more divine ecosystem on it so i'm very bullish on stacks
and also for the client side validation side i'm bullish on rgb protocol and tabular sets
in the tabular sets might be more popular recently as now many protocols use tabular
sets to issue zero sets the most famous one is nostra sets though it's called nostra sets but
actually it says nearly nothing to do with with a nostra protocol but it has everything about
the tabular sets it uses tabular sets to issue zero sets like treat and treat and nostra
to make a launchpad and centralized market and the first successful practice of tabular sets
but tabular sets is not compatible with lighting network yet and also due to its
its choice of its virtual machine according to its white paper it chooses a tab script
based on the tab root upgrade of bitcoin is through tab script virtual machine as its
virtual machine so the tab script can only allow basic logics like and or or not in its
script but cannot be capable to create a defi index and also stablecoin social file game file
and so on those complicated logics based solely on tabular sets and tab script so
but i do think that the future of bitcoin must be built on defi so i'm more bullish on
the other side of the client validation protocols called RGB protocol and i'm trying to build
on the RGB protocol as it has its own virtual machine lubium and also it's compatible with
lighting network so with the bitcoin lighting network our RGB protocol we can create a
gasless defi with native bitcoin on bitcoin ecosystem that's why i think that will be the
future of bitcoin ecosystem the like a mass adoption of the whole crypto industry might come from
from what we are building now in the bitcoin ecosystem with the assistance of lighting network
protocol and RGB protocol yes that's my discovery and point of view to share with all of you thank
you i appreciate that it's very detailed very insightful yeah and great perspective as well
okay guys so let's wrap up with this last question yeah it's getting a little bit personal
but what kind of investment advice do you have for the bitcoin retail investor
both in the long term and short term yeah what's your take on it jamon
well i think the simple simple answer is uh just join the ecosystem so uh why because
if you look at the total valuation of acerm and the valuation of a bitcoin you will see that the
market capital bitcoin is three times bigger than acerm but the acerm equal assess i mean
except for acerm itself if you add all those layer one layer two defy all those projects
the total valuation is about 300 billion but the right now the total
valuation of bitcoin equal projects is only 10 billion so this is a like a 30 30 times difference
so on one hand bitcoin itself is a three times bigger than acerm but the bitcoin
uh equal assess the total valuation is only 130 you know so much much less so that's not reasonable
because in the near future in bitcoin ecosystem so i we will have everything that acerm has
and we also have uh something that acerm will never shift for example we will have even compatible
layer two that will replace the acerm layer two so and i can say there are some new projects
it's called nubit if i remember correctly they are doing data availability de layer of bitcoin
and we will have um yeah literally everything that acerm has and also we have something else
that is a acerm ecosystem will never have for example the latin network that is a one million
tps infrastructure and also nuster that is a decentralized message uh decentralized
communication protocol and also we have uh RGB in one or two years that is uh utxo
native bitcoin smart contract protocol so and it's much much more faster than
the current smart contract smart contract on acerm so if become ecosystem can achieve
everything that acerm has achieved and also we will have a better technology in terms of tps
for latin and there's no reason that the the bitcoin ecosystem valuation is so much less than
acerm ecosystem so this is the biggest alpha and well this is the i mean it's a short term alpha
so because for quarter one of 2024 i mean in the coming two or three months we will see
more than five bitcoin layer two they will their may not will you know go alive go alive
and probably in half a year or one year we will have a native decentralized
stablecoin on bitcoin ecosystem and probably in half a year tether will issue their
uh usdt on latin network or tether if you check their their twitter of tether the
ceo of tether is a pablo so he has already announced that they are supporting one team
who is working on the stablecoin design on latin or RGB yeah they are uh pretty much same
and uh in for stablecoin of course um it means that probably in one year mean 2025
which is uh when the real uh bull market come so the bitcoin ecosystem will be uh you know very
resourceful and uh it will boom so we will have everything so this is uh the advice and
on the other hand if you check the progress i i'm a supporting because ecosystem doesn't mean that
i think it's certain will die or something no uh just because the valuation of ethereum projects
is way too high for retail investors because we are we are talking about the advice for retail
investors so if you check the valuation of uh uh the big bitcoin ecosystem for the same projects
let's say for for evm layer two the average valuation of uh bitcoin layer two projects
is uh uh like uh 100 million but the average ethereum layer two is like three to five billion
so this is a 10 times difference this is also not reasonable reasonable either the ethereum
layer two is too high or the bitcoin layer two is too low i mean the valuation and so this is
the opportunity for retail investors you don't need to you know think too much so just buy the
cheaper one yeah if they are thin all right and uh uh also i mean for the long term otherwise
i think people should focus more on the native bitcoin narrative uh for example i'd like two
narratives right now one is uh for i mean hana is here i mean for marine chain so they bring out
one new narrative the the founder of marine chain just told me just told me that okay they are
promoting one uh not solution but it's some idea some concept is that so we should issue our assess
on bitcoin layer one but we should build the app on become layer two because the ledger of become
uh layer one is the the safest of work compared with all other pus or any other public chain so
bitcoin is the safest uh ledger so we should issue our token we should issue our coins on
bitcoin layer one using bs 20 technology or ordnance technology and and then we need to
bridge them bridge the assets on layer one to become layer two or other uvm layer two to build
the app so this is a this is a no this is a native narrative for become equal and also
another narrative for become ecosystem is uh for long term is uh um coupled asset plus noster
because noster is a noster is a decentralized communication protocol um literally it can
support all web 2 application for example gaming social uh social network or office in
or media something like that so but because for web 2 applications uh people don't need that much
financial uh application or they just need for example when you are using youtube or twitter or
some other or you are playing games you don't need defy you don't need take your token or something
you just need some way to uh do the payment and this is what latin network or toproot asset can
can do and toproot asset plus uh noster because the address the address model of
noster and latin are theme so basically if you have uh one address of your noster
network and you will have the same address on latin so uh a combination of toproot asset and
um noster will give us the opportunity to build a real web 3 work because for um in the past people
always think that okay we need to when people are talking about web 3 people are mentioned
polka dot or ethereum or other public chains but as a matter of fact the public chain cannot do
web 3 because they are too slow because the cost of blockchain is too high so for blockchain
you have time step you have consensus you have uh you know uh knows to confirm the transaction
so that's very slow and very time consuming so for web 3 i think first of all we need to keep
the user experience we need to have high speed or real-time uh real-time uh feedback between you
and your your your your opponents or your uh other nodes on the network so we have to keep
the same user experience and then make it somehow either decentralized or transparent at least
so this is uh uh what latin network and noster can do for any other a public chain including ethereum
they are not able to do that they are too slow so i think the narrative of real web 3 will happen
on bikon ecosystem bikon ecosystem instead of any other public chain yeah this is uh
yeah my two cents two cents yeah thanks thank you jamon what about you henna anything to add on
based on what jamon mentioned above as well yeah uh first uh yeah we talking about the alpha for
uh i my own perspective first uh i think today is a bikon top hit and all the guests are talking
about uh or uh talking a lot about bikon for sure because the market cap for bikon is at least
at six times of the insurance and all showed up are the all coins so if we're building ecosystem
here it's definitely uh i think it's uh uh ready on the radio here but uh at that point i i want
to add one point here is uh we we need to thinking about uh why bikon have that high
value because it grows from community grows from decentralized so uh what i suggest is everyone not
only invest on but you could participate on the uh order like the new stuff like for example uh
i speak with a lot of community a lot and i i i know they when they play the integration even though
it's a really a small amount of money but uh if you keep doing that you could make uh like a lot like
some people told me they make even more than the device so i think for most individual you
definitely could try more new things and keep your eyes on them what's going on on the market
because uh that's uh what's the fantastic for people doing web3 because they always
new and always have an opportunity especially right now is on the bikon ecosystem so so that's
one tip and another thing uh for my personally i will take my eyes on is also like dpang and
ai and rwa because uh after the bikon opened that uh the etf get approved it opened the gate
between the uh crypto uh to uh offshore fiat and and and definitely i think uh for i think the
real value uh what the crypto at is it definitely increase the efficiency for finance especially on
osc payment and also a lot of uh we lay on the real-time transition so i think uh rwa will be
uh major center but but it's more like a long run but definitely even slow but that's a really
big market and i think uh dpang may be the kickoff uh for people's uh the real world as that's uh just
begin to get into uh like more uh integrate or impact uh or accumulate with with a web3 so
uh yeah definitely could uh keep your eyes on that so that's my uh share here today thank you
i appreciate that what about you arno here do you have any wrap-up or opinion on that
uh it seems arno's internet is cutting out yeah would you like to add on from there will
okay sure and i will be more conservative i still recommend that at least two-thirds
of the position should be placed in vc or eh and i depend on personal invest choice you could hold
more bdc like i do yeah and the other side half of other side so i think use the whole
some high quality asset or or mean a blue chip asset and they have uh relatively solely fundamentals
but uh a bit higher the market cap also you could uh buy some uh certain potential in their
respective narratives uh but have a model market cap right you could you could find some
targets to invest also also i think use it uh uh uh you should have some uh
bargain in shape to invest in the future for market launch projects and that's my perspective
okay thank you will yeah um yeah it seems arno's internet is cutting out yeah it's okay let's
wrap it up guys yeah i appreciate your time and thank you so much for joining and make sure you
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well be sure to follow our social media channel thank you guys have a good day cheese have a good
night cheese all right bye guys