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Bitcoin Puppets ETF ๐ World Peace
Recorded: Jan. 10, 2024 Duration: 2:25:52Space Recording
Full Transcription
Yo, what is up, King Art?
What the fuck is up?
What's up, Jason?
I see you down there.
Jason Fang.
What a legend.
I'm going to send you an invite if you're free.
If not, no worries.
What's up, Z?
What's up, Mr. Yellow?
What up?
Fine, Pepe, Nightmare, Crime, Lobo Bug, and Degenerational Wealth.
My good buddy, dude.
My homie.
GM GM.
What is going on, man?
I literally just had to leave the place I was at because the town I'm living in right now,
the power went out this morning, so I've literally been at a resort all day.
I've not been vacationing.
I've been glued to the computer, but I've been gone for like 30, 40 minutes.
If somebody can fill me in, what is happening right now?
You mean with the Bitcoin ETF or like everything?
Yeah.
I mean, have we seen crazy price action?
I think I saw Captain Wood is hosting us spaces.
Yeah.
I saw Elon Musk just there as well.
Pretty insane.
I'm not going to lie.
You know, people were just like anticipating Southern News, but it seems like there's no โ it's just too strong.
Everything is just going up.
Yeah, I know a lot of people in my circle, really intelligent people, you know, sort of were โ like it almost was like a counter trade to counter trade.
You know what I mean?
Like crazy โ I never try to predict things because I know how bad forecasts are and how difficult it is when you have as many variables as we have in a macroeconomic event like this.
But, I mean, it's just โ it's amazing to see โ this is history.
You know, like Jason, we got you up here.
I don't know how long we have, so I want to like utilize your time the best I can.
Like how long have you been watching Bitcoin and like, you know, when did you โ when did you personally start to believe like that this day would come at some point?
Was it right away?
Was there signals along the way that you're like, okay, now it's definitely happening?
I mean, what are your โ what's your perspective on today's events?
Yeah, I think โ so I started buying Bitcoin when I was โ let me think โ when Bitcoin was like $400 USD.
So, I don't know if you guys remember those days, like $400 USD Bitcoin.
Oh, we're losing you a little bit, Jason.
Sorry about that.
I'm actually outside right now.
At the airport right now.
King Arf, is Jason Ruggin or is it me?
No, it's your Ruggin.
He can't hear you, Jason.
Probably got you down and back up.
He can't hear me?
No, yeah, you got to go down and back up.
All right.
Let me โ let me โ
Oh, you know what?
Let me rejoin.
I think โ I think it's on my end.
Sorry about that.
I think you're good.
My internet literally just disconnected.
Oh, okay.
He can hear you now.
Good things are lying.
All right.
Cool, cool.
You guys can hear me, right?
Arf?
Yeah, yeah.
Sorry about that.
All right.
Cool, cool, cool.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I started buying Bitcoin when price was like $400 USD.
I think the time when I felt very strong about just the ETF approval was really when
the intern from Cointelegraph made the post about, you know, the approval, right?
I think there was just like a bunch of โ this is just a bunch of like basically insider info that I think people just like kind of understand that like this is coming soon.
And it's like โ it's a no-brainer.
It's like this is going to come and we didn't โ you know, it was โ you know, people are kind of like bullish that it's either going to be, you know, this month or before April.
But honestly, I, you know, I feel like the fact that it went, you know, I got approved today is like pretty insane.
And I was actually anticipating maybe more closer to like April or like before April, like kind of like Q1.
So, yeah, no, it's very exciting.
Curious, what made you think April or Q1?
Just because I feel like โ there's a lot of โ just correct me if I'm wrong, but I think, you know, I think, you know, BlackRock and a bunch of other institutions all kind of like want to build their kind of like their supply chain, right?
So including their custodians.
You know, initially, I think it might make sense to be using Coinbase, but if you're like BlackRock, then you're like, you know, why would you โ you know, why would you end up using Coinbase, right?
So it's like they need time to kind of like build their infrastructure and kind of like get that approved as well.
So I think even Coinbase, it might be a temporary solution as a custodian.
I think eventually, I think BlackRock and all the other firms will probably end up building their own custodians.
I mean, it makes the most sense.
It's like if you're like one of the biggest companies in the world that controls, you know, a good amount of capital, like, you know, you wouldn't be using a smaller company for your own product.
So I think that's just going to be like the next step for them.
100%.
So, I mean, for those who don't know, yeah, like BlackRock is teaming up with Coinbase to use their infrastructure to custody the Bitcoin for the ETF.
That's what I think Jason's referring to.
And I think that's a keen insight that I haven't heard mentioned really from anybody today.
Like, it's super fascinating that this stuff is so complex that the, you know, the top financial institutions of the world have to basically team up with crypto-native companies like Coinbase in order to launch these products.
And actually, I'm trying to remember which is one of the big four accounting firms.
I can't remember if it was Accenture or one of the other ones.
But they teamed up with, I think, Fidelity, I believe.
They partnered, one of the big four accounting consulting firms, teamed up with Fidelity to offer them, like, this, basically, it's like a, not a checksum, but it's like a way of, like, validating their own internal data for their ETF.
And I found that fascinating because, yeah, when you think about, like, trying to track your own individual transactions, it's complex depending on how much you're transacting.
But if you're an institutional provider of something like an ETF and, you know, even further products, like, there's going to be so many transactions and, like, they need help, like, with that infrastructure.
So I think it's fascinating to see, you know, basically the, there's a shift now, now that these ETFs are real.
There's a real shift.
We've already seen it for years, but basically legacy companies needing to partner with these much newer companies.
Obviously, Coinbase has been around since 2013, but still in the world of finance, very, very new company.
So, fascinating.
I want to welcome you.
Oh, go ahead.
The other thing is, if you guys didn't know, you know, BlackRock employs a couple hundred people nowadays just on the Bitcoin ETF.
It's pretty insane.
And that, and honestly, I mean, that seems light, right?
Oh, yeah, for sure.
For sure.
So this is, like, these are, these, these, these informational kind of, like, indicators that, like, this is definitely coming, right?
Yeah, totally, man.
Totally.
Dude, I'm so glad that you're joining us on these spaces, Jason.
I saw you tweet out a couple days ago, like, should I start a spaces?
Are you planning on running your own spaces on X here?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, if you guys didn't know, we, we have a strategy in our fund that just invests in media companies.
And we're just been asking people.
It's like, you know, I obviously started doing these spaces.
I'm diving really more into the Bitcoin space.
I think it's really interesting because, you know, we're learning a lot more about runes and tap and all these, like, new, you know, protocols are being built on Ornose.
And honestly, there's no better way to learn about these things than on Twitter.
So, you know, I found it useful in a sense that, you know, I'm always trying to learn.
And the way to learn in this community is to be talking to other people.
And so, like, you know, these spaces is not just, you know, me sharing alpha or, like, you know, sharing kind of, like, you know, my, my, my thoughts on the industry and what's hot.
But I think more importantly, it's, it gives an opportunity for, for myself to, to learn and from other people as well.
So, you know, I'm looking at this from a perspective where I'm more willing to learn and hopefully they're, you know, by adding more, by kind of, like, inviting value add players to the space, you know, that, you know, we both kind of, like, benefit over time.
Dude, that's, that's, that's honestly, like, it's the most brilliant strategy.
It's such a simple strategy, but I haven't seen really anybody else do it.
Like, like, for those who don't know Jason, he's, he's a legendary venture capitalist and he runs Soar Ventures out of Taipei, I believe.
Apologies if I'm wrong about that.
But, but, but, like, for you to come in here and, and be joining these spaces, I mean, I'm grateful you joined several of the ones that I've been hosting or co-hosting.
But for you to kind of, like, you know, realize that, like, literally all the information sits on this platform and it's just, like, it's just being, you know, propagated all day long, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
It's such a simple concept that I, I literally have seen so many people, basically most of the players, they, they don't understand that.
And it's, they think, like, you know, people can think, like, people are wasting time on spaces and a lot of people are, don't get me wrong.
Like, a lot of these spaces are garbage, but definitely the, the spaces that I try to host, you know, I always, like, I'm grateful that people like you join and Leo and King Arf and Z and so many amazing people.
Like, I learned a crap ton.
That's why I spend the time doing this.
It's, it's also fun, which is, like, it's kind of a crazy situation where you're learning and, and having fun.
Um, but yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm fascinated by, by you doing this.
Um, cause it's, again, it's like a brilliant move that is just such low hanging fruit.
And I, I think you can do very well and I'm definitely happy to help promote it cause I know it'll be, um, something that's educational.
Do you know when you're going to like plan to launch it or?
Uh, mostly at the end of this month.
So I've been lining up a lot of, obviously, you know, you guys know, I've, I've done like sort of summit, which, you know, invited a handful of people.
Um, I think the limitation on SORA summit is, you know, uh, I can only, I can only like reach out to so many people that's willing to kind of fly into Taipei to like do these panels.
Right.
And so this, these, these opportunities kind of like prevent, you know, I guess the point is people want to spend no time with their family and holidays, whatever.
Right. And so this, this space will kind of provide a better opportunity for, for kind of like our network to be shared amongst, you know, the Bitcoin community and, and not just the Bitcoin community.
Cause you know, we're, we're also kind of big on other categories like the Psy as well.
Um, you know, if you guys haven't been following the side, it's like, again, a, a very interesting category that I think would over for sure.
I think it will, um, it will surpass GameFi, um, and kind of like the metaverse, um, narrative, uh, relatively soon.
Um, especially after kind of the Bitcoin approval.
So, uh, like these are things that I would like, obviously love to share.
And there's like, there's a lot of logic and data to show like why these are, these things are interesting.
I think most of the people here today, obviously have more like Bitcoin focus.
And I mean, Orono's today is, is a no brainer, right?
Everyone kind of believes that this is going to be a big thing and only get bigger this year.
Um, you know, like when, when we did our panel, uh, with Casey, uh, David Bailey, uh, Domo and Danny, um, and Albert from Bitcoin startup lab, a source on it.
Like, it was like, like, like people who are, who kind of like aren't in the space, like, will know, like, this is like by far, like one of the most like insane panel this year.
Like I'm putting all, like every, like the most legit players on one panel, but even at that level, like our, I think only like three, four hundred people showed up to, uh, to the stage, like to the, uh, to the panel.
And, and so like, what we're expecting is that it's going to 10 X this year.
Um, you know, David Bailey was like, it's insane.
Like there's like the fact that there's only like 400 people, like, you know, listening, it just means that there's so much alpha in this industry.
Um, which is, you know, I believe it's a hundred percent true.
And so like mine, I'm kind of curious because we're doing Soros on it again this year, but it's going to be two days instead of one.
Um, I'm just like insanely curious in terms of how big our conference can be and just like invite all the biggest Bitcoin players to, to Taipei.
Dude, I, I had so much FOMO.
You have no idea.
I've watched several of those panels on YouTube.
I got to go back and watch, um, a couple of them on multiple times.
The one that, um, that you were just referring to, I think is, is historic.
I mean, you had everybody on there, like literally everybody.
And, and, and Albert as the moderator is just like incredible.
Um, I, it's, it's insane.
I'm not sure if you guys, uh, met Casey in real life.
Uh, but when he presents, it's like, it's like, it's like walking the Superbowl.
Like for me, it was like, it's like, it's, uh, it's insane.
Like the, the vibe, the, the energy that he has when he presents about runes is it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it's just, it's just one of those moments.
And I, where I felt like, holy shit, it's like, this is it.
Um, yeah.
I mean, those who haven't seen it, I think it's, it's, it's, it's a totally different vibe watching on video, but like, versus like watching it live.
But yeah, these are like, these, these are, these are like certain moments where I just feel like, oh my God, it's like, this is such a meaningful event.
Like, even for myself, I'm just learning so much.
Um, and you know, this is, this is why we're, we're so bullish in this industry.
Yeah.
So I, I know a lot of people got to meet Casey in Miami.
I feel very fortunate.
I just posted up to the top a picture I took with him and Ordnally and, uh, one of my good friends, Doom.
Um, um, we took this in, in February of last year at, um, the first Ordnally's meetup, uh, that Casey has, has gathered, uh, cause he's from the Bay Area.
And, um, you know, it, it was like a humbling experience because like he, as you know, Jason, like he's very humble and, um, you know, like I, it was like looking back on it now, I knew at the time, I'm like, this is legendary to be a part of this event.
But, um, a lot of things happened, I think, you know, from that event, people meeting each other.
I, I know other artists that were there and creators, um, that because they were there, you know, they got, they got sort of like insight and, um, you know, connected with, with people like Casey, like Ordnally and Raph.
I mean, literally the whole team was there.
Aaron was there, um, everybody.
And so, um, just throwing it back to, to Taipei, one, one, not to put you too much on the spot, but like people like myself definitely want to be there.
Um, I'll probably figure out a way to make it work.
Um, but for people who, you know, may not have the means to, but are like super, uber talented, do you guys have any, any idea about maybe like doing some sort of, um, uh, grant program or, or some sort of sponsorship to get people there and so they can experience it and, and, um, you know, contribute?
Um, yeah, so we're, we're actually working on the government this year.
Actually, we were pretty lucky in terms of, you know, we just moved to Taipei last year and we had a chance to kind of like really start working the government.
And this year, like they're like incredibly bullish on our event.
Um, so we can definitely, if there are anyone who wants to fly to Taipei to do a 10 source of it, but don't have like the budget, um, to, to do it, then, you know, we can figure something out.
Just like DME.
Dude, what a, what a, what a legend.
Um, so stoked to have you, Jason, if you can hang out, please do.
But I got, I got to welcome, uh, King Arf, my, my amazing co-host, Leo, a legend.
We got Sandman on the stage, Z.
What's up, guys?
Arf, that's fucking good.
How much, dude, uh, lots of AI shit today, bro.
Like, obviously, this ETF stuff's really bullish and, uh, I'm super about it.
It's fucking awesome.
But, uh, you know that I'm in the AI streets out here, constantly building in the background.
Nobody knows what the fuck I'm doing.
But, uh, today there was a device called the Rabbit that I've been following the company for a while.
And it's like, um, a handheld AI-enabled device.
And we've seen a few of those.
Like, there was one called the Pin.
You might have seen it.
It was, like, looked all futuristic.
It was, like, $1,600.
Made no sense.
This is, like, that.
But, like, uh, on a more technical level.
It's just, like, this device with a camera and a screen.
And it's, like, AI-enabled.
And you essentially, like, log into a bunch of different apps.
Like, say you log into your Spotify, all your different shit that you use.
And this little device has, like, a SIM card slot that you can take anywhere and just ask it questions.
Like, AI-related questions.
And then ask it to, like, do things.
So, like, add these songs to my playlist.
I have a party later.
I want you to invite this amount of people.
Send them emails.
Do all of this stuff.
And then, say, put a reminder in my Gmail account.
Right?
Or in my Google Calendar.
And it'll do all of that for you.
So, it's, like, a custom-tailored, like, agent, kind of, where you can, like, tweak it and set it up.
But it's rabbit.tech.
They're doing, like, pre-orders.
I got in the first wave.
So, I'll get mine in, like, March.
And they sold out the first 10K, like, already.
So, now they're on wave two.
Wait, there's a 10K collection of rabbits?
We're interested.
These are, yeah, exactly.
It's fucking funny.
But these are actually physical devices.
It's not even NFT-related.
It's crazy.
But, yeah, I've got one of 10K rabbits.
So, I'm hoping it moons.
For sure.
Are you flipping that bad boy?
I am going to, honestly, I'm going to connect it to my computer.
And I'm going to make a lot of crazy shit happen.
There's this thing with this where they have a mode that, like, the secret sauce here is the training mode.
Where you can, like, say I were on my computer.
I could download the software to my desktop.
And I could train it on a task that I want it to know.
And then, like, if I'm elsewhere, right, I have a SIM card in this thing.
And I just hold the button down.
I say, hey, do this task.
And then it'll do it.
And I'm nowhere near my computer.
Like, I'm wherever I want to be.
But I could have it, like, finding info from this thing, putting it in an Excel sheet, and then sending it off, like, real time.
Because I trained it on how to do that.
So it's one of those things where, like, you can use this as a tool to really, like, put in your workflow.
And, yeah, just save you a bunch of time and potentially build out some, like, really cool shit that helps you out and maybe other people.
But I'm bullish on that company, bro.
We've seen, like, a lot of physical AI devices come out, and most of them were fucking trash.
And this one's, like, 200 bucks.
So it's, like, fuck, dude.
Like, that's not that bad.
And I don't know.
I think it's bullish.
It's probably, like, the top product from CES that I've seen other than an AI-enabled steak griller that uses machine learning to make your steaks how you want them better the next time.
So, but, yeah.
Either way, higher, up and to the right with the Bitcoin.
I'm bullish on that.
Two quick questions for you, King Arf.
How much did you know about AI, like, a year ago?
And how much are these people paying you to shill us on this thing?
Because I'm trying to go buy one on OpenSea right now.
Yeah, I actually don't get paid.
That's the bullshit part.
But later, you do.
You just keep learning the things.
Last year, I knew a decent amount.
I've known about artificial intelligence for a long time.
It's been, like, very โ it's been, like, a peak weird, like, ADHD hyper-focus interest of mine for, like, a long time.
But once it started to be implemented into, like, user applications was when I realized, like, this is going to be huge in a couple years.
So that was, like, ChatGPT when that first started.
So I was on, like, Clubhouse the second that dropped with a bunch of fucking crazy nerds who were, like, jailbreaking it and, like, finding out how to make bombs with ChatGPT and shit.
And, like, just trying to break the fuck out of it.
That's when I really got into it was when that started happening when you could actually mess with things.
And now we're just starting to see, like, every company in existence implement AI into every fucking thing they have.
So it's a cool year this year.
It's going to be fucking interesting.
Yeah, what I was trying to get at, man, and you totally just did โ you steamrolled it with your crazy bomb-making story is that you're an MF-er that has been in this space.
I've known you for over a year, super smart.
But I haven't really watched you build, like, a ton of โ like, I haven't seen you get crazy like you have in the last year.
And it's just โ to me, it's super exciting to see someone like you find something finally that, like, locked you in.
And, like, now you know way more about AI than the average person.
Like, anytime I have a question now, I can go to you, which I think is just incredible.
So I was trying to give you props.
You steamrolled it with the bomb-making story.
But it's cool.
That was amazing.
I got to say what's up to Leo.
Leo, man, this is โ we keep hosting these spaces because shit keeps happening.
How are you, man?
Yeah, man, what's up, guys?
Super glad to be here on stage, man, on the Bitcoin puppet stage.
I mean, I don't even own the puppet yet, so โ
What?
Oh, dude, we got to get him out of here, dude.
You can't go.
No, no, no, no, no.
I was about to say I might get one now that the ETF is approved on this stage, actually.
But, yeah, King Arth.
Maybe I have โ I don't know if you know King Butoshi, but when it comes to all this AI stuff, you should definitely talk to him.
You guys would be โ
He's a legend, bro.
He's a fucking legend.
I actually want to talk to him about runes because I've been hyper-focused on runes for the past two months since I saw Casey fucking commit that shit to GitHub, bro.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's awesome, bro.
He's on that shit.
He was, like, one of the first 10 to fucking etch a rune on Testnet, so shout out to Butoshi.
That guy's a fucking legend, bro.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wait, wait.
MFers are etching runes?
What's that?
MFers are etching runes?
Yeah, bro, on Testnet.
That sounds dirty.
It is dirty, but I can't wait for the real runes that are going to go up and to the right.
So, real quick, you got to explain to people what does that mean.
I know what it means, but nobody else.
A rune is just, like โ
No, no.
Yeah, yeah.
That and then etching runes.
Okay, right.
So, like, BRC20s were, like, the attempt at, like, shitcoins on Bitcoin, basically.
They work, but they're hard to work, and they use a lot of energy to work.
So, runes, fix that, and they'll be shitcoins on Bitcoin.
So, you're going to want Bitcoin in an Xverse wallet, and you're going to want to know which rune is Ordi, like it was with the BRC20.
These are going to be a thing because they're way more efficient, and you can't stop technology.
So, if it's way more efficient, people are going to use that over the last technology.
So, it's programmed, literally, in the code.
So, it's one of those things where the alpha is right in front of you, but it's, like, it seems scary, but it's really not.
You just need an Xverse wallet with Bitcoin, and then you need to have the alpha, which will be the runes.
Or you could etch them yourself, which is another thing that I ended up learning was, like, I have a Bitcoin node running.
So, what I could do is I could have Ord on my PC locally, and I could inscribe ordinals myself.
I could load that anonymous wallet with Bitcoin and just do whatever I want on the Bitcoin blockchain because it's permissionless.
So, I could just, like, etch runes, which, what happened with Butoshi was the second that you were able to use Testnet,
he was one of the guys that was sitting there waiting, and he had a plan, and then he put out his runes on Testnet,
and he was one of the first 10 to do it.
So, basically, like, it's almost, it essentially is front-running, bro.
Like, if you have a node and you have all of this knowledge, like, you can just do all the things before they hit the marketplace.
And then you have all of the pieces before the game starts.
So, that's kind of the play with runes right now.
It's just, like, having Bitcoin and then getting those runes before everybody else, and then they'll be on Magic Eden later,
and then all of the people who don't want to learn all the things, they will just be looking for runes.
So, if you have the right ones, they buy them later on Magic Eden.
Bro, I swear to God, it's getting harder and harder to tell if you're an AI because you're just spitting out, like, just knowledge.
And I'm like, is this dude, is that a real human or is that King Arf the bot?
We're going to get into that at some point.
It's going to be really hard to tell, but so far, I think I still can tell.
But, dude, you're an absolute wealth of knowledge.
One of my best friends in the space.
I can't wait to see you again, IRL.
Thank you for co-hosting.
We've got to say what's up to Z.
Z, man, how are you?
Z is eating pizza with his ninja.
Sandman, how are you doing, man?
Hey, yo.
I'm good, man.
It's cold as shit here.
But I just got done channeling my inner Will Ferrell and streaked down my neighborhood after I heard about the Bitcoin ETF approval.
So, yeah, that's a thing.
You did not.
No, I felt like it, though, man.
Fuck, I was actually on a phone call.
And, yeah, I'd love to talk more about AI.
I don't know if that's what we're talking about here tonight or not.
But whatever you want, man.
That's what I've been doing for, whatever, 20 plus years.
So we build custom, you know, AI products and we integrate them.
All of our back ends are blockchain based.
And, yeah, shout outs to good.
And he's kind of my Sherpa in the Bitcoin world.
I've been building on Ethereum based networks, I guess, or EVM based networks since 2012.
And so I'm just like here to learn and to know better person.
Right.
So other than the fact that for some reason I got faded on these node monks and these puppets.
So and my bags are down bad, obviously, if you look at my PFP.
So I'm just like, yeah, trying to follow along and not get too much FOMO while you guys are out here going up and to the right.
But, yeah, dude, I'm glad to be here, man.
Dude, it's an honor to have you, man.
And, bro, I would have shilled the fuck out of you, but I respect you.
And I was like, dude, I don't know if it's like I it was a very risky play, like buying monks, like the way I started doing it.
So in the future, now that you've kind of cleared the road for me, just just get ready.
I'm going to I'm going to show you some shit.
And I am fully not responsible if it goes to the left and down, but or down to the right.
But but not a feeling that won't happen, bro.
But, yeah, man, I'm here for it.
And, you know, I think just my own use case or perspective on this, like, you know,
I just think this is a I fundamentally believe that that Bitcoin actually is like the best data layer on the planet.
I'm not sure that it solves all the things on the planet, but it definitely solves data.
And, you know, the sovereign custody of that in a way that can't be fucked with.
And, you know, I think there's a lot of play.
We've actually been trying to prototype a little bit some of our tech, which is native to like EVM stuff,
but essentially all on chain hosting with no CDNs or Google or any IPFS or anything like that.
We build websites on chain and everything.
And we've been trying to cook on like how to make this stuff work with Ortiz and Bitcoin.
So, again, man, I'm just here to learn and, you know, kind of soak up.
And I appreciate you having me here, man.
Dude, 100 percent, man.
And, yeah, I mean, like as far as what's to come, I mean, as I'm sure, you know, like there's there's so many things to come.
Like like King Arf is just spitting facts about runes.
I think runes is going to going to like just it's absolutely going to cook and blow everybody's minds.
But, yeah, man, I mean.
So what's the TLDR on a rune?
And so I think I heard, is it effectively like a BRC token or?
No, it's a new it's a new fungible fungible token standard that Casey Rodemar, the creator of Ordinals, is building.
And he's actually building it inside the Ordinals protocol code base.
So it's going to be tightly.
I don't know.
Integrated is the right word, but I would say it's going to work well with Ordinals.
So probably integrated.
To be honest, I haven't dug in the code yet enough really at all.
So I'd probably need to get with King Arf and some of my other engineer friends to figure out, you know, what's happening.
But it's as far as I know at this point, like it's slated to be released in a production.
It's currently on Testnet, but it's slated to be released in a production at a certain block height, which is, I think, going to be right around the halving based on the current estimate.
So in the midst of like basically what people I think are anticipating as like kind of mania mode or the beginning of mania mode,
Casey's going to release this new fungible token standard.
And his stated goal, he's said this publicly many times, is to suck all the liquidity out of every other chain and bring it to Big Daddy Bitcoin.
Because Casey is a Bitcoiner at heart.
And so, you know, we've seen what happens with like obviously fungible tokens on Ethereum, fungible tokens on multiple other chains at this point.
And we saw what happened with BRC20.
But as King Arf is saying, it's a very โ BRC20 at this current state is like very, very difficult to use at scale.
And it's, I guess, to be decided or to be determined if there is a way to scale it.
I know that people are probably working on that.
But what Casey is doing is trying to build basically the greatest, funnest, most fluid casino that's ever been built.
That's kind of his goal.
And he's not โ you know, he's literally doing it for the benefit of Bitcoin.
So I believe in Casey like 100%.
Like I would not fade him.
And I don't think anybody is.
But, yeah, I mean, that's kind of the TLDR.
Once people are doing their โ it's called etching, which is like creating like an actual โ like rune itself is a protocol.
But, you know, you can create different runes just like you can create BRC20s or ERC20s.
So you can actually do that on testnet and people are already doing it.
But, yeah, it's not supposed to be released until around, I think, March or April.
I forget the exact block height and what that time frame will be.
But we got several months to go.
It's fascinating.
So like what is the unfair competitive advantage to this new standard?
Like what is different about it versus, you know, former standards or, you know?
BRC20 was like so fucking clunky that it's just not โ it doesn't make sense.
And like this is like exponentially faster on like all levels.
So like transactionally, like tech-wise, code-wise, it's just โ it's not congesting anything.
It's way more smooth.
It's kind of like โ it's just like BRC22.0.
It's just like shit coins on Bitcoin.
You know what I mean?
Like the technicals are on there.
And if you want to check out the GitHub, everything that they're committing is on there as well.
And then I'd also recommend the OrtaCord, which is like the Ordinal Discord.
They have like โ they live stream code sessions and shit.
So there's like a lot you can pick up just being in there.
Yeah, I'm definitely going to have to jump in there.
Yeah, I think there's โ and I actually am fascinated by this concept of, you know, AI and how that like integrates through, you know, Bitcoin and Ordinals.
Because I fundamentally believe my, you know, thesis, I guess, in the next five years plus is that, you know, there will not be an AI product that doesn't have a blockchain back end.
I don't believe these two work, you know, kind of separately as well as they ever would together.
Blockchain fundamentally is a back end technology that drives for integrity and attribution.
And those are the two most significant primitive flaws in traditional data, you know, whether it's machine learning or AI or any of those sorts of things.
And blockchain solves that, right, because, you know, most corporate brands, you know, the substantial amount of their data is coming from third parties.
They're having to make inferences or assumptions on, you know, information from different, you know, centralized social media platforms, which aren't consistent in terms of how they filter information on users, et cetera.
If you even get access to that information, in certain cases you can't.
And so having, you know, zero party or first party data that is, you know, sovereign custody is something I'm very, very passionate about, right?
Like the fact that, you know, we don't have sovereign custody of our PII in the same way we have sovereign custody of our coins right now is a fucking problem as far as I'm concerned.
And I think that fundamentally is going to transition to AI being the front end of these products and blockchains being the back end.
And I think the sliver of that that makes this even more interesting is, as I mentioned earlier, like what you think about Bitcoin as kind of a data layer or not Bitcoin, but, you know, the ordinal structure is a data layer.
And then, you know, how does that change the dynamic of how these things operate and, you know, the personalization?
I think somebody was talking about the rabbit, you know, products or whatever, but, you know, the personalization of these tools.
It's actually what I was a little late to this spaces, but I kept on telling myself I was going to jump into one of these and hang out with y'all.
So I was just got off the phone with a client about, you know, how we build these things and, you know, they're all role based and, you know, very specific to the user and all the context and data that trains all these LLM models are all sitting on chain and encrypted.
And we actually launched them on permissioned L1s that tie to, you know, certain tokens and such in terms of the data that trains the models.
So, but how, you know, ordinals play into that to me is like something that's super, super interesting.
I'd love to, like, just fuck around and find out in that way.
I mean, that is the name of the game, Sam, man.
We all are just fucking around and finding out.
Z, dude.
Yes, I'm here now.
By all controversy, I just don't eat pizza.
I was, it said listener before when you called on my name.
So just, just.
Oh, shit.
My bad.
My, dude, I'm.
No, I'm just messing around.
I just want to throw it out, throw that out there.
Just messing with you.
But I'm very grateful that.
That.
And you guys are kind of reflecting on this, that this is a moment in history that we are all here together.
That.
I can't.
It's, it's, it's, it's almost unfathomable to comprehend that the ETF just got approved today.
Um, we're all on this space together.
This wouldn't be even possible without web three.
Think about it.
Like on a fundamental level that.
We're talking on, we don't even, we, we know each other, but we don't know each other, uh, on this space.
And just want to say that I'm very grateful for that.
Um, love that we have this and just very, uh, grateful that we are for this.
So I just wanted to share that, that we're in a magical moment together that it, you know, we're going to make it.
And we're, we're, uh, you know, we're very, very early.
Dude, I, I appreciate that sentiment very much, man.
Um, Sandman is, is running through the streets naked as we speak.
Um, King Arf is probably deploying bots.
Um, Leo is, is probably trading ordinals like a, like a G cause he just doesn't give a fuck.
But yeah, I was, I was just riding.
So I was my, the power went out in the town that I live in down here in Nicaragua and I had to go to this resort.
I know it sounds like a fucking luxury problem, but it actually was a pain in the ass.
So I've got 20 minute, uh, motorbike ride up like a dirt hill.
It's not super crazy or anything, but it's just like, it's a little, I had an early meeting and almost missed it.
Um, so it's been just an insane day already.
And as I was riding home, like I was actually trying to race the sunset because, uh, I don't have like a clear visor.
I need to get a new helmet.
So I have a clear visor.
So it gets dark.
I can't fucking see.
So anyways, I'm racing the sunset home and I get, get into town and like, you know,
there's a lot of, uh, people in town for the holidays.
So people from all over the world are visiting this town right now.
Um, and there's obviously a lot of natives.
Um, and, and I'm just like passing people and, and I'm just like, it was so fucking surreal.
Like I'm looking at every single person and like, they have no fucking clue what just happened, man.
Like everybody I see, I'm like, that person doesn't know that person doesn't know.
Like it's, I don't know, man.
It's a, it's a surreal, it is a very surreal moment right now.
Um, I'm very grateful for everybody that's here.
Um, you know, join us, listening, talking because we were all right.
Like we were fucking right.
Like they are wrong and we were right.
I, I, I hate to put it that way, but it's just like, we, we've all been fucking dealing
with this for years, dude.
Like, it doesn't matter when you came in here, people fucking fade you.
Like I went through like a year plus of like, what do you do for work?
Oh, I work for an NFT company.
Oh, that, that must fucking suck.
Um, you know, or like, Oh, how's your, how's your NFT son?
Why don't you come down from the attic and tell me about them?
You know what I mean?
Like we've all been just getting like shit talk to us by the entire fucking world and
they can all eat a dick today.
Like, I'm sorry, but like, like everybody can eat a dick, bro.
It's, it's been years of this shit, bro.
You know, this it's even people within the space doubting you and shit, dude.
Like, Oh, like whatever, dude, suck a dick.
Uh, today's up only.
I don't know what to tell you.
Yeah.
I normally don't talk like this completely like on space, but I mean, dude, it's crazy.
Like I worked at AWS in 2017.
I started there.
So like, as I was buying my first Bitcoin and my first slice of Ethereum, um, in, in the
third and fourth quarter of 2017, like I'm talking to like, like brilliant engineers, dude.
Like, like these are like senior engineer talking to managers, directors at AWS and they all
thought I was fucking stupid, man.
Like I got like, I basically had to stop talking about it.
Like we've all been through that where like you're excited and you're just trying to share
some information that, you know, like actual alpha and not telling people to buy, but just
like knowledge of like, yo, this is, this is real.
It's going to disrupt like all these things.
Like you should pay attention and they just fucking dismiss you.
Well, I think that's over with, like, there's still people who are going to be like, I don't
know what the fuck's going on, but like, bro, there's multiple ETFs.
Like it's over with, dude.
Good things.
Like we now, yeah.
I just want to add to that.
I just want to give a, to prove your point.
I've been dealing with this for two years in my friend group chat and they all think
I'm fucking nuts.
So I, I text them, you know, I text them today, like, you know, go fuck yourself, but in
a, in a, in a playful way, cause that's, you know, you can't, you can't, you know, talk
shit to your friends, of course.
And he still writes, shut the fuck up.
We're still early.
Like I go, the moment I go, the moment you buy Bitcoin, I'm selling and I'll buy in two
years.
So we're still that early.
And like, I still talk to anybody.
I, you know, I'm a corporate trainer and I talk to the financial advisors.
I asked them, I said, are you excited for this week?
They're like, what's this week?
They don't even know the Bitcoin ETF is going.
That lets me.
Bro, those guys are out of the job, dude.
Those guys are out of the job.
But they're just, it just proves the point that how early we still are.
Cause I'm like, if they know the Bitcoin ETF is going off and this, and like the one
guy jokes around, he goes, you tell me about the, about the Bitcoin stuff.
And I'm like, all right, I keep you updated, but holy shit.
I go, you're telling me your job is to know the market.
And I'm, I'm hearing my fucking web three doing all this shit, but it just proves how
early we are.
And the, the more I look at it this way, though, the more that they don't know, the
more bullish I am soon as, as soon as they hit, I go, all right, Bitcoin's a legitimate.
I go, all right, we're near stable.
I'll either call it stabilization over near the top.
Bro, I don't want them to know.
I didn't want them to know a year ago when I first got to ordinals and everybody was
saying this shit's too hard.
And I was saying a good, uh, keep saying it's too hard, please.
Cause that's good for me because that means that I can get all the pieces before the
game starts.
Just like the runes thing.
I did that dude.
Like literally a month ago, I had two free NFTs that were just fucking these Bitcoin
articles that I got for being active right now.
Back in the day, uh, those things sold for like way too much.
Shouldn't have, I have no idea how that happens.
It doesn't fucking matter to me.
China decided they were bullish seven months later, uh, because they figured out how it
worked.
So like getting into these things before people know how it works is how you get those irrational
gains.
So like, that's not, that's, I'm not doing the fading thing this year.
Uh, and runes is the thing not to fade, bro.
So if I can send it, if anybody has the alpha on the runes, let me know.
I'm looking for whitelists for my community, uh, and myself, uh, for the sure.
Uh, give me those on top.
And then, yeah, let's fucking print dude.
Uh, ETF sign, suck a dick.
Like good things said, fucking Sandman.
Go ahead, dude.
Yeah, I, I kind of have a little different perspective, um, on like, I don't feel like
we've made it, man.
I feel like it just actually kind of started.
Like, I think we're going to, you know, we're going to ball out today and, you know, have
fun with it.
But as far as at least myself personally, like I'm going to wake up tomorrow with quite
a bit of conviction on like a lot of new shit that needs to happen.
Um, and, uh, yeah, man, I think fundamentally what I'm, you know, becoming more and more
educated on is that like, I think ordinals have a real story to play in that.
Um, and yeah, man, I just think when you start to think about, to me, the two most important
emerging sectors from here are really going to be number one, depends and, you know, real
world assets and how those are put on chain for, you know, lending and collateralization
and things like that.
Um, and then to identity management and some of the stuff that's going on with web five
and, um, you know, sovereign custody of data, which I think is the next like kind of fundamental
shift.
So as soon as we get people over the hump that like blockchain is more than crypto and
that there are like actual real use cases that, you know, are game changers in every sense
of the word, you know, there's going to be these net, you know, these, these, you know,
subsequent things in my view that need to happen, um, especially around identity management
and, you know, physical items and how those all become tokenized and on chain and used
as, you know, lending collaterals and, you know, you know, licenses and titles and shit
like that all getting transferred.
And I don't know, man, that's, that's what really gets me bullish on all of this is that
like, now we can actually start doing our job versus like maybe some people are thinking
about it as we've finally made it.
And I'm like, okay, now we can start fucking racing.
So I don't know, man, like I, I'm definitely, you know, way more convicted and passionate
today than I was yesterday, just having written, you know, read all this news, but really it's
just because I know that there's a big game to play, you know, coming up over the next
couple of years, man.
I just think there's a lot to do still.
So that makes me really, really excited.
Fuck yes, Sam, man.
And, and I totally, I, I totally agree with you.
I think you're giving the exact like, like take that I, I, I have, like, you know, there
is so much to be built still, like so much, like I just, you know, and I, I think we all
share the sentiment, but I think like what, what signal, what I, what I was talking about
today is like, it's over with is like now every major company has to pay attention.
They have to take it super seriously.
Obviously the governments of the world have to take it seriously in a way that they didn't
before.
I mean, the SEC approving these ETFs, these vehicles is like, it's a precedent.
And I totally agree with you.
Like, I think it's going to be, I used to think it was going to be like faster.
Cause I just, I was, I had less information and was definitely irrationally exuberant.
Um, still have those feelings.
Um, you know, I have to check myself, but yeah, I think, I think we're in for, you know,
a multi-decade build out, um, of the infrastructure that needs to happen where blockchains basically
integrate with all, any kind of like transactional, any kind of application using transaction as,
as you know, and a lot of us know, like damn near every application out there is using transactions.
Um, I don't think it's going to, it's not going to, you know, it's not going to disrupt
like every database in the world because there's just, there's different application, different
types of data store, you know, um, for different applications.
But yeah, I mean, it's like, this is, this is just like the, the thing that I think every
company in the world needed to basically say, okay, it's game on.
So I absolutely agree with you.
Like this is, everybody should not think like, you know, it's over with in terms of like,
we don't need to do anything else or nothing else new is going to happen.
It's like, this is the beginning of the, of like the biggest fucking race, I think of
our lives.
Um, you know, if you were, if you're involved in AI, like Sandman, you've been watching like
King Arf and I used to work in that sector.
Um, you know, there's been an ongoing race for multiple decades and really like an accelerated
race over the last couple.
But for us in, in the blockchain industry, like this is really, this is a watershed moment.
Um, and I think we're going to see, you know, acceleration from here, obviously still going
to have multiple, you know, as far as like cycles, you're still going to have cycles.
It's not always up and to the right, but yeah, I mean, dude, this is, this is nuts.
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
Z, I saw you on mute.
Yeah.
No, I just, I just wanted to say that in the beginning of the space, which I think is
absolutely wild.
I'm just a average person, but I thought I saw Jason Fang in here.
That is a venture capitalist that you get to interact with that on the internet that you
have access to on the space, which to me is unfathomable.
Meaning if you think about 20 years ago, this, this doesn't happen.
Like you, you, you, you, you, you can't access this leverage of whatever it is.
And I'm still kind of trying to wrap my head around it.
Like to me, even in this space right now, we're leveraging each other that we, we know
each other, but we don't.
And it's, it's fucking sick that we can talk to another.
We can see this vision that we all believe in.
And I'm just going to say it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, like you said, it's surreal.
It's, it's, it's, it's absolutely fucking surreal in my mind.
And that it's 2024 and we're early.
Just imagine, I think, I think Bill Tye said like these decentralized communities are going
to be the future.
And I didn't believe it at first to be honest.
I was very skeptical, but now I see it.
I'm in it.
I go, I want, I'm like, I'm listening to it.
I'm being in it.
I want to participate in it.
And I'm like, holy fuck, this shit is real.
It's decentralization is, is the future.
And just, I guess, Ralph Powell said, I'm trying to wrap my head around it.
So I just, that's all I'm trying to say.
No, man.
I mean, dude, like, you know, you're, you're, I think, um, like emblematic of what's cool
about this space is I I've watched so many people come to the same realization and I came
to it myself.
I mean, you, you know, me, like I've been, you know, working with, um, working in this
space for two plus years.
And, and the biggest, like we were building technology, like a lot of technology, you
know, we were building a lot of things.
Um, but I, I have that, that thing about people being the alpha for a reason because being
able to connect, um, so like, okay, just a little quick backstory.
Like, um, well, before I joined on chain monkey two years ago, I was working on, um, you know,
I was trying to do my working on my thesis in, in school, um, on, on, uh, something called
graph artificial neural networks.
And, um, if you know what a graph is, it's a data structure.
It's basically just a network.
It's, it's literally, it's nodes with edges, um, is like the technical term.
So like the Bitcoin network is a graph.
Um, all the systems of nature are a graph.
If you just like looked around the room right now, we're all part of a graph.
Like we have some people follow each other.
Some people don't, but it's, it's these, these, this, um, this notion of like a graph
or a network that the whole universe runs on.
And what you're talking about is something that I came to realize pretty early on, um,
was that now we can, because like the, the, the applications we use every day, they're
creating the social, they're creating our graphs.
Like they're literally, there's, there's algorithms that are deciding who is connected to
who like, even if you click follow, it takes that information, algorithm takes that information
and then decides, you know, whether you see that person's info, like what they're saying,
it decides, you know, whether, um, you get notifications and all, all these different
things, like it's decided for you by an algorithm.
What I noticed pretty early on is like with, with NFTs is now there's a way for people to
disrupt those algorithms.
We can create our own fucking network.
Um, and that is what brought me into this space, like more than anything, because I saw
that that was revolutionary because one of the biggest concerns I've had as just a human
in the world is that these algorithms are getting more and more powerful.
Um, the more information we give them, the more we use these applications and, you know,
there's no way around it.
We have to use these applications to just survive in our world.
We're just making these things more powerful.
And it basically prevents us from being able to create our own network.
Like we don't even realize how, how, you know, manipulated we are by all the apps on our
phone and what I've, what I've seen here and it could change, but like we all chose to come
into this room.
I mean, yeah, I sent it into a DM, but like many people I see in here that aren't in those
in that group chat, people were all electing in to what we're into this network that we're
a part of.
And it's fucking powerful, dude.
If you look at all the movements that have resulted in, in change, it's, it's, it's usually
people randomly coming together.
I mean, like the, the Silicon Valley is, is one of the greatest examples for technology
in modern history, right?
People who just happen to be in that part of the world, a very small part of the world,
right?
I lived in California, um, and I never made it up to Silicon Valley, even though my, my
family is from the Bay area, we just never went to that part of the world.
Um, and, and so you had to be there and you had to be there at a certain time.
And it was, it was like, there's always friction for all the brightest people in the world
to get there, but somehow, you know, some made it there now, like you're saying, you
just literally hit fucking join the space or you, you buy the NFT and put it out on Twitter
and tag us somebody and they, and everybody finds each other.
Right.
And we're electing into it.
We're creating the network ourselves.
And so when those early days, what you're referring to of on chain monkey, when I heard
Bill Tye speaking about his vision of what this is, that was what it was for me.
It wasn't about fucking making money.
I mean, I, there's a million ways to make money, but it's about the ability to use this
technology to change the world.
And it happens through the people.
So, uh, yeah, man, it's, it's amazing to hear, you know, you, you've been basically
like, like all of us coming to that same conclusion.
I say it all the time.
And, and, you know, it's, it's, it's definitely a bit like, uh, you know, idealistic.
I'm aware of that, but I really believe like, that's why I'm here.
That's why I think a lot of us are here is we do have the ability to change the fucking
future, like, and the future needs to be changed, right?
Because if we stay on the same trajectory, I don't want to get into all the crazy shit,
but there's a lot of things in the world that needs to, if we're going to survive our
children, our grandchildren, like things gotta, things gotta go a little different.
So, um, we got another legend, uh, on the stage.
I hope he's not here, uh, to, you know, flood the puppets.
He's been, he's been flooding quite a bit in the group chat men.
How are you?
I'm good, bro.
Uh, one thing, world peace.
Second thing, good thing.
Like, can you please check your DM?
It's actually kind of urgent.
Absolutely, sir.
Sorry to interrupt.
Let's go.
But yeah, order was on fucking top, dude.
Fucking puppets on top.
Looks like we're probably going to make that video.
Uh, please make the, oh my God, man.
Are you, are you, wait, wait, you are making a Bitcoin puppet video.
Cause, cause Leo's not in yet.
So I don't care, bro.
That's not, that's not him, bro.
No, don't worry, Leo, Leo, we have it.
We have until 0.1.
Me and Thread may or may not be making a video together if it hits 0.1.
I may be talking to the puppet master himself.
I actually don't even know how to say his name.
Ui, Ui, whatever the fuck.
But, uh, we're going to, we're going to rent a shed.
It's going to be lit.
Man, I'm just excited to view a video, to be honest.
And I also told good things before.
I, I just waited for the ETF approval.
I, I, I'm looking to get some puppets as well.
ASAP.
Yeah.
Celebrate with a couple puppies, dude.
It's, uh, there's a nice little dippy too right now.
So you're, you're set.
But no, good things do what you're saying.
Uh, I resonate so heavy with that, bro.
Like, dude, that's like literally the trajectory of my life is like leaving my old industry and
like just being here doing shit, bro, uh, whatever that shit was.
And then like surrounding yourself with people who are in an industry that you want to be
in and then actually like participating and being able to be in that industry is absurd.
It's, it just, it doesn't happen anywhere else.
So like for me specifically, dude, just as a human being, I was like able to jump in here.
And now it's like three years later, like I have a network with people that I'm like
actually working on a bunch of different things with and it's fucking dope.
And so it's like this, the, yeah, I didn't even, I came here for money.
It was like total opposite of you.
I was like, yeah, I came here for money and shit, but like now I see it.
Wait, no way.
He said he came here not for money.
Of course I came here for money, bro.
Good things.
No, no, no.
Wait, good things said that?
He's lying.
But, uh, yeah, he's lying.
Of course.
That's crazy.
I know, dude.
But, uh, now that I'm here, I'm like, yo, you can make the money, but really the sauces
and all the people, uh, and those are the people that help you make the money really
anyway.
So it's all about the money is what I'm saying for sure, man.
It's the money.
Dude.
I mean, everything's more fun when you make money too.
Like, I think it's so stupid when people are like, oh, you should, it's one or the other.
No, no, no, no, no.
You can make a shit ton of money, have a lot of fun and make more money having fun, which
actually makes you have more fun making money.
Right.
You could just have, you know, uh, Dubai hat walk holding a puppet at like really low
and then it could go higher and you'd have a lot of fun with that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You could also be with your friends having a good time, but still making money.
Yeah.
And the puppets on the Bitcoin walk chain just go higher for no reason, irrationally.
And then you just have fun with your friends and make money.
Yeah.
It's so funny, man, I, I actually joke around and I, you know, I was talking to my friends
and I call myself a recovering corporate athlete, you know, cause I spent whatever, 20 something
years of my life thinking that like the old framework was the way to go.
And yeah, once I kind of found what, what these spaces were like, and especially spaces
specifically, right.
Like to your point earlier, good.
Like it is the ultimate equalizer.
Like it's the democratization of entrepreneurship and there's so much gating that happens at
every level.
Um, and anything that's being developed in a traditional sense from access to liquidity,
to access to people, um, to access to like just education and awareness of what's out there.
And there's no other venue where you're able to like break that matrix or that graph to your
point, other than literally sitting in these spaces and having live conversations about
things and having like, you know, just the variety of people.
I think somebody brought it up earlier.
I mean, you could have a, a VC fund, you could have a PhD doctor, a medical doctor, and you
could have some like bozo, you know, tech nerds like myself all in the same room.
And something comes out of that, that, um, I just don't believe could happen in any other
framework ever, uh, frankly.
So, yeah, man, I just, you know, keep doing these things and yeah, I just think, especially
in the, you know, today where we're all like kind of somewhat vindicated and, you know, what's
been a lot of years of just like kind of being chastised for, for what we do.
Um, like I was, I mean, this should really be the mark where we're like, all right, like,
what are we going to do with this now?
You know what I mean?
Like, are we just going to sit around here and like, fuck it, we've all, or are we going
to actually like do these things that we, you know, talk about, you know, and make it
more than just vaporware.
Right.
So, yeah.
I think it's a beauty of it here though, is that you can do that.
Right.
Like you can like, like that's, I mean, that's big goals for me and like has been for the whole
time.
Like you can like up yourself and like level yourself up to the point where you can actually
do something like that.
You want to do like, like look at Coinbase, like that's an exact like framework of that,
right?
Like Brian, just like being like, okay, I'm going to make a bunch of money and then fucking
do this shit.
Like that's, that's what I love it about here.
Like, and a lot of people get weird when people try shit and I'm just like, bro, like when did
it become weird to fucking try shit or like dumb to try shit?
It's so fucking weak.
Uh, cause like most shit's not going to work.
And that's, that's the regular world.
So that's everything.
So like people need to be able to experiment here.
So like, I'm so bullish on people that do so.
I've seen people I know drop things that like might not have worked or like try to do little
ventures that didn't work.
And then eventually like they do something that's like super dope and like life changing
for them.
So that's the whole thing is like, if you have like a entrepreneurial spirit here, like you're
going to be, I think you're way better off as an entrepreneur here than you are other
places as fucked up as this space is, bro.
To be honest, like I know a lot of guys who have tried to other shit in other spaces and
failed miserably, but even here you could kind of fail upwards.
It's, uh, it's funny.
Cause even like on the way you end up with so many fucking connections that it's actually
absurd.
Like I could do some things now just by making a couple like calls that I just, I can't
even believe that shit to be honest.
Like when I look at it sometimes, like even good things like you saying, like, where were
you at a year ago?
I don't think about that shit, bro.
Like when you said that, I was like, I guess you're right.
And I forget that shit.
I should think about it more.
Everybody really should.
But, uh, it's true.
And like, that's what happens.
I know where you're at, dude.
Like, dude, I like, you know, I don't, I'm not trying to make this too much about you,
but like, I'm like, this guy is a fucking up and coming legend.
I knew that about you, like, like you showed me some shit and I was like, yes, dude, this
guy got it.
And, and I thought that about several people and you know, some people just, they, they,
they, they're not able to pull it together.
Cause it's, it's hard.
Like it's really fucking hard.
Like I got to say men, men inspired me yesterday, dude.
Like he was, he was on another friend's show and he told, he told him ever, like that the
dude was just basically selling himself short.
He said it more elegantly, but, um, you know, I,
I call people pussy all the time.
That's great.
I'm just kidding.
Yeah.
No, dude.
Men's a fucking legend.
But, but like, no, I mean like, like, um, you know, I, I, uh, yeah, dude, like, like I,
I come from, you know, I had to, I come from the bottom.
Like a lot of people, I mean, it wasn't like poor, poor, but like I worked my fucking way
up, like, like, like every other, you know, kind of like middle of the road worker.
And, you know, I got to a point where I had a pretty decent network coming in here.
Like, uh, you know, I worked for AWS.
I worked as a researcher in the academic world for two years, working with like top universities,
top national science labs.
I had a pretty solid network coming in here.
But when I came in here, man, like, like today, two years, even a year in, like it's mind
fucking blowing because people like King Arf who I'd have never met in the old world that
I was in, like, I would never have the privilege of meeting Leo, Sandman, Z, Min, John, special
captain dad down there, Yala, golden, foamy, like W4, fights, not mean.
Listen to my bro.
Come on, bro.
Listen.
All these fucking people, neck, toot, toots, wouldn't have known toot.
Like, like we're building a, a, a network here that is going to, it's going to like blow
people's minds because they don't believe it.
Like when you try to explain it to them, they're like, you talk to people on the internet,
like what, like everyone's been doing that, you know, like, that's like, I would, I, I
commented on somebody's Instagram.
I like somebody's Instagram.
Like they don't understand the depth of what we're building here.
Um, and they don't get cartoon pictures owning them, but yeah, go ahead.
No, good.
I just have to share a story.
Cause that you just, you, you hit it on the nail and this is, this is what makes this space
so wild.
So this is, I'm going to, I'm going to put it to my PFP right now.
This was when Ornals started, you know, when people are talking about Ornals is dead and
you know, the May, June, July and my, my buddies, and it's just, just so happens, I guess I'm
gonna call it fate to be honest.
Um, they put out like, okay, if you put out a ninja pizza video, you'll get 500 points.
And I sat there for a long time and I'm like, eh, Ornals isn't, I'm like, I don't know.
But my buddies own coincidentally a high end that's called action figures galore where they
own Ninja turtles, like high end, like, um, stuff from the eighties.
And I'm like, fuck it.
Let me just do it.
Let's see what the fuck this is about.
So I took a, I, you know, I took videos of their, of their, like, you know, they have
like 85, like a Michelangelo from like 1985 and their pre-packaging stuff.
And then I went to my favorite pizza place.
I fucking cut a t-shirt up all in this space.
You could do this.
You cut a t-shirt up, you put it around your head and you take a picture of yourself or video
of yourself putting, uh, recording yourself, eating a video of a pizza.
And all of a sudden later on, you get a custom PFP and naturally it just turns into this fucking
community of where we are now.
Where just going to your point of, holy shit, it cultivates a community of, you can't tell
this to people.
It's impossible to, it's, I can't, I tell this to my fucking friends and they're like, my
normally friends.
And I, I still can't talk to them.
It's too fucking early.
And it's, to me, it's, it's, it's fucking crazy that, that, okay, okay.
You get a custom PFP off your fucking, and the, and the language we use that I, obviously
you guys understand, but nobody else understands that, that this is happening.
And like, holy shit, like you can cultivate a community off of whatever in this space.
And I still, like I said before, you, I just can't wrap my head around it.
No, I mean, it's, it's hard to, it's hard to wrap our head around these moments, dude.
Like, um, when you're, you know, I just, I always look at COVID, dude.
Like I was right there, I was in fucking, um, Bothell, Washington, which is where at the
time for like several months, everyone thought that was the first case of COVID like in the
United States.
It turns out it wasn't, but it was the first reported case, like for many months, like that
was, that was ground zero.
That's where it started in the United States.
So the first recorded case or the first case that we thought would happen, it happened like
10 minutes from me.
And like, like my friends, uh, you know, my friend in my cohort in school, his little
brother, their school got shut down.
There was several, like, it just started exploding right around me.
And, you know, the scientific community in Seattle is super tapped in.
Like, so I was getting like, I was getting all this information, you know, just through
following people and talking with people in the network there, um, before it would hit
the news.
Um, and, and basically like the whole world didn't understand what had already happened.
Like it was already too fucking late by that point.
And, and it's just, even, even though I knew this, like I, I predicted we were going to
have a shutdown.
It's not because I'm a genius.
It's like, just look at the data.
Um, but the whole world, I tried to explain to my friends and they, they just didn't, couldn't
grasp it.
It wasn't until the NBA shut down.
They're like, Oh fuck that guy, that, that crazy MF was right.
Should have gone and got some toilet paper and some pasta.
But, um, it's just exponential change, dude.
Humans are not, we're not adapted as our minds aren't adapted to understand it.
You have to really study, uh, exponential rates of change to get it.
And we've, we've all been in it and, and it's, and we're like, we're at the nut, we're
at the beginning of another S curve, you know, which for, for those who don't know, it's just
another start of another exponential, um, you know, moment.
And so when you're at the bottom of it, you really can't see, like, you can't see what's
about to happen.
Even, even if you have that feeling that, like, I, I knew we'd probably shut down America,
but I didn't know everything that was going to happen for the next year plus from COVID.
Like, and so, yeah, it's just, it's, it's, it's a, it's a very surreal moment to be living
through mold.
And we're, we've lived through multiple of these in our lifetime.
I think we're one of the first groups of humans that have like lived through so many
exponential changes and many of them are converging.
I mean, like we're talking about AI earlier, that's exponential and then blockchains and they're
going to converge because one produces all the data.
The other one runs on the data.
So it's just, man, it's, it's crazy, dude.
Like, it's absolutely crazy.
I do feel very fortunate to be here with you all.
Like, and, and I just, you know, I, it's one of those moments of euphoria.
I just have to admit it.
Like there's a euphoric moment or mood, uh, that we're all experiencing.
We just got to recognize it.
Um, I'm with you to be real with you.
Like it's, it's, I'm having the same shit like daily right now where like I wake up and
I'm like, okay, like, cause we're like, first of all, we just made it through the bear
market.
Like, congrats.
Okay.
And like, we were all here through all that.
So that's fucking crazy.
And then all this shit's happening.
Like you said, with the ETF AI, everything coming together all at once is just like, it's honestly
fucking wild dude.
And it's like, understanding it is part of like the algorithm shit that you were saying
where like breaking from the algorithms in Portland.
And I'm like, I can realize that I used to be like somewhat whipped up into a couple of
different algos that were like, like kind of like affecting me.
Definitely.
Like not kind of like, definitely.
Like I was definitely like wrapped up in this stupid shit.
It wasn't like I was scrolling TikTok all day or like doom scrolling all the time, but
like you get affected by these algorithms no matter what.
And then like, I think it was like five years ago.
I kind of like separated for like six months, like from everything, like I deleted everything
and then just like, didn't have shit on my phone, dude.
And like was living with myself and making music and dealing with, like, we forget as
humans that like, we're so used to these like short bullshit attention span sucking apps
that we forget about life.
And like the fact that this shit's like a long-term thing and that like all these little short-term
gratification dopamine dumps mean absolutely nothing.
And like on a long-term scale, like they're, they're actually detrimental, like to, to
your mental health, your physical health, everything and your progress.
Like the second I broke from those algorithms, I started like progressing as a human being
just because you're, you're not like sucked into the right now.
Cause like the right now is not going to be the same in six months.
And like, look, dude, look where we are right now and tell me that it's not every, every
single person in this space told me last year that AI wasn't going to be shit.
All you can do is make a fucking blob with fucking mid journey.
Like people say crypto ain't going to be shit.
Like, you know how it goes.
Like people don't understand shit until it's too late because they're sucked into this little
world while it's bullshit.
So you're right.
They don't see like past what's right in front of them, which is a cell phone and an algorithm.
And, uh, just like people force feeding them what they're supposed to think, C and B.
And it's, uh, it's honestly like the thing about like web three and what I like is there
a lot of based MFers who are not like, they don't subscribe to that shit.
And like, I don't either.
Like I can't because it's fucking mind numbing and I'm not making progress and that's annoying,
but most people are doing that.
They're not making progress and they're just like getting by in a system that doesn't allow
them to make progress and like sucked into an algorithm.
Most of the time elsewhere, it's like, it's really fucked up, but like, if you can be
one of the few to like, see what's happening, that's how you have these opportunities and
like silly fucking gains that make no sense.
Right.
So it's, uh, same.
It's like a very euphoric time and moment right now.
Um, and it's cool to see like all the homies bags up.
Like I know people in multiple communities, like that are all doing well in different ways
right now.
So like, if that's not a bullish sign, dude, like, I don't know what the fuck is.
So I think we're fucking, uh, pretty much primed for some life changing years, dude.
Like as just a whole web three community, bro.
And more people are going to come here and like everybody here, dude, like is OG now,
which like, I didn't even realize that until recently when somebody told me that shit.
And I was like, I guess you're fucking right, bro.
But, um, we're about to see some crazy shit over two years, dude.
And like, yeah, same.
It's just like a really dope moment.
So also happy to just be here and fucking enjoy it.
Happy ETF, uh, suck our dicks, et cetera.
You know?
You got to fucking celebrate, guys.
This is fucking history.
Sleeping again, saying no more.
This is a rude awakening, kicking the door.
Back and I'm better than ever before.
Don't get in a stick and I'm ready for war.
I see the ice and I'm up in the score.
I get the body to jump in the floor.
Call it a call and a pet to the mall.
Take the seat up and I kill her some more.
When I knew done at the scene, I won't leave anything.
You won't leave it, no pool in the vault.
Don't let me do it, cause I overdo it and do it
till I can't do it no more.
All of the damage, I'm proving them all.
Back with the classic, I know it's been long.
I didn't respect me while I was gone.
I smell the victory back up and type in this rabbit hole.
Back and I shit to me.
We make it history.
Full to the misery.
Why did this fall?
Kill it and get to me.
No other food.
Surprise for army.
Bitches are never my boss.
The bitch has got options.
Yo, sorry, Sam, man.
I know you were trying to say something.
Go ahead.
No, man.
That was way more important, man.
I was in here just vibing out, man.
No, I think just to put it in perspective,
I wanted to throw out a couple interesting stats.
It kind of crosses over some of the narratives
we talked about here in terms of how early we are.
The impact data and AI is going to have.
And like where we're going.
But I think the estimate is that 90% of the world's data,
plus or minus, that we have like categorically across the world
was actually created within the last two years.
And we produce more bits and bytes of information on the internet in two days
than we did in a full year just a decade ago.
And so like, if you think about that, just take a step back and think about all the fucking
information that's out there on the internet and just like in different formats and venues
with big data and AI and how those are being leveraged for different systems.
And you put that in the perspective that 90% of that was created within the last two years
alone, imagine like, you know, that S curve that you were talking about
and how we're getting ready to go into that next, like, you know, for lack of a better term,
like green dildo candle here on like a proverbial sense in terms of like the data explosion
that's going to happen and what, you know, role blockchain, Bitcoin and AI are really going to have
in that conversation.
I think it's just like when I learned those stats, I mean, it was it was mind boggling to me, man.
And I think it really just underscores like literally how early we are in the grand scheme of things.
And then more importantly, if you know, if you follow Moore's law or anything like that,
like you push that shit forward another 20, 30 years on that same curve of like,
hey, we just created 90% of the world's data in the last two years.
Okay, well, what's that mean for the next 20? Right.
And so does that mean that we're going to see AGI?
Like, does that mean fucking Terminator is going to be, you know,
Arnie's going to be walking down the street here pretty soon.
I don't know, in our lifetime. I don't know, bro.
Like, to me, it just seems like AGI within the next 12 months.
That's my fucking thesis, bro.
Bro, I kind of enjoy life, dude. Don't be talking about that.
I don't know what to tell you. 20% chance we all die. 80% chance shit gets pretty dope.
But I'm hoping I have enough Bitcoin to where it doesn't really matter.
You know what? You know what?
I'm a country boy, man. So I just load up on guns and Bitcoin, honestly, just in case.
That's foolish.
Dude, I'm coming to Sandman.
Yeah, let me be the AI guy. I'll be your AI guy. You'll be my gun guy.
Good things will be the good things guy. And then we'll just come hang out.
Yeah. But no, I mean, in all seriousness, though, I just think that, you know, if you really take a step back and you think about how this is going, I do believe, I don't know if we'll overreach a true AGI sense where systems actually have, like, feelings and emotions and sentiment the same way humans do.
But I think what's going to happen with the advancement, especially on the edge, in terms of, like, how these things are delivered, you know, in video and, you know, the things like deep fake and some of these other things that are being delivered.
Um, these things are going to become so real that they're, you're going to perceive that they're human.
And we all know perception is reality. So whether or not it actually has feelings or emotion doesn't really fucking matter.
What really matters is because, you know, it turns out human beings are not that sharp sometimes.
And if they, uh, if they perceive that, uh, this is a real thing, um, they're going to believe it and they're going to start interacting with these systems as if they were actual humans.
And I do think that's going to happen very, very soon. And maybe even within the next few years, we'll, we'll start to see that like come to life.
But yeah, you got to remember, like, like you're saying, like most people like are, it sounds rude, but like most people are not like the brightest.
It's just as numbers. And like, they're like literally right now, like you could have something that could manipulate a human.
That's like utilizing AI tech for sure. And like AGI to me looks like a lot of different systems working together to accomplish a lot of crazy shit, uh, which we're seeing with like Google deep mind and, uh, all the types of like the actual like mathematical and scientific discoveries that are happening in the background right now that you don't really hear about that often.
Like that shit's crazy. And I feel like those are the catalysts for a more like understandable user-friendly AGI.
But at the same point that is going to definitely fucking manipulate people. And there's like all of these things that are just not, uh, very good, but you know, uh, people aren't generally going to be outsmarted by something that's smarter than always.
They're like an AGI is going to be smarter than you. It just is like has all the data. Right. So yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty interesting.
Can you guys, can you guys break down AGI for people? Like, yeah. So AGI is just like, it's like thinking about it in like layman's terms. It's just like, uh, well, what does it stand for? First of all, uh, it stands for artificial general intelligence.
Yeah. And like, it's, it's gonna, it's like an overarching AI that like, when most people think like futuristic AI, they think of something that you just tell it what to do. It just knows everything and can do everything. It's kind of like that. Like it would know all the things. It would be able to do everything.
integrate itself into anything, learn anything and like autonomously do things itself and like have like a thought process sort of thing. So it's like, it's the, the ultimate AI is what you're talking about. And that's like open AI is actual, like public purpose. That's what they're trying to get towards.
You're a fucking Darth Vader, bro. I would not trust. Sam Altman is essentially the antichrist of AI in my personal opinion, man. Like he, uh, I, I would not touch anything. Um, I, we, I personally don't put my, any of my shit through GPT. If anyone is interested in building custom, like AI, AI or LLM stacks, go build on llama, get a hugging face account, build those all in custom format.
Put your data. Put your data on chain, put it in a soul bound token, go use a ZK roll up or something like that to do your identity management.
This is why, uh, in my personal opinion, the biggest and most important vector of growth in the next five years is going to be identity management because of this very issue that we're talking about here, which is these systems. Um, you get to an AGI state where you have a, in theory, a, a, um, an algorithm or a, an AI robot, whatever you want to fucking call it.
That has more competency, uh, not only from a legit, you know, a logical standpoint and decision-making and things like that, but from a emotional and sentimental standpoint and being able to navigate the array of human emotion, which obviously has so much dynamic and fluid nature to it.
Um, and that's always been the number one obstacle. Um, and it's kind of a faux pas if you talk to people that are really, really deep into the, you know, deep machine learning and AI industries, um, at large, they, you know, it's a very polarizing conversation of whether or not AGI is ever something that is possible.
Um, but I fundamentally believe that it doesn't really matter whether or not it actually has emotions. If it makes people believe it does, it's solved its case. Um, and that's why understanding the identity and being able to understand that, let's say in two years in, in King Arf's example, there is a, you know, some sort of an assistant tool that is able to essentially be your replicate or your delegate in digital environments and making, you know, true decisions and interacting as if it were you.
Um, it's going to need to have a tokenized and verifiable and immutable identity that is different than yours. Otherwise you're going to certainly realize that there's a lot of security issues and otherwise that are going to end up being real problems for people. Right. You know, as an example, your mom's going to get a phone call and it's going to sound like you and mom, I'm in jail and I need you to bail me out. And it turns out, you know, had nothing to do with you. Right. And
your mom just got her shit entirely drained. So I think those things are near and I don't know that people are really thinking about it, um, in a, in a true sense. And I think identity management to me is probably the most important thing that all of us really need to be thinking about, um, as we build and innovate these tools and systems.
Sam, quick question is, is, is AGI also, I'm not sure, but is it defined as when it passes like, um, human intelligence?
Like is, so, so if I can just hop in here, like, like the algorithms have already been around for a long time that have been better at, at certain tasks that, that humans can do.
Um, I think probably what you're looking for is what's called the Turing test. And this is a very famous test named after Alan, Alan Turing. Um, basically the godfather of, of modern computer science. Um, yeah, that, that's generally, you know, what people use to determine whether something is like, um, actually, you know, uh, qualifies as AGI.
But the thing I wanted to say is, um, it's actually, it's, it's shit. I lost my train of thought. Um, I, I posted up a tweet above that I wrote. Um, I wrote this because like, I heard a lot of people when chat GPT first started hitting like the masses, like people were using it and they were very confused.
Like they thought things were going to just overnight, you know, like, like everything was going to be, um, ruled by chat GPT. It's actually quite a ways away. I I'm of the school of thought that I don't think AGI is possible. I mean, anything is possible, but it's, um, you know, working in the field myself, like what, what basically is happening with, with AI, as we know it today is you give it a data set and then you give it a goal.
And it uses the data set that you give it to achieve its goal, but it's really a dumb machine. What it's doing is it's just rapidly iterating. Like, I mean, fucking fast as shit. It's just going through the data. Uh, you're asking it a question, which is the goal. And when it, when it answers the question, you're telling it whether it's right or wrong.
Now it does this like probably millions of times for these large algorithms. And some of them are just running consistently, like as we're, as we're giving it data, like in our interactions, like they're definitely running algorithms on spaces. That's a hundred percent. Um, but basically these are really just dumb machines at the core. They're, they, they're able to, to, to complete these tasks, but they're doing it in a very like brute force fashion. They're not actually thinking there's no real intelligence there.
It's just a really nice system that has been, that has been developed by humans that enabled them to have far more, far greater predictive power than, than the machines before them. But when AGI hits, that's now, now the machine can think for itself. You don't have to give it the goal. You probably don't even have to give it the data. It now knows how to, it knows how to develop its own goals. It knows how to grab its own data. And that's why people are terrified of it, including myself. Um, because, and that state.
So, so, um, for example, like, like surgeons, um, or, or doctors reading x-rays, machines beat doctors at reading x-rays like years ago. Like if you're a doctor who your whole job or like big part of your job was to read x-rays, you no longer have to do that. There's, there's software using artificial neural networks that, that like does that for you. Same thing with like simple documents, like all this stuff has already been, um, automated, like that, that people used to have to do.
And they're not, they're no longer like, no one's going to get paid to do that shit ever again. Um, but what happens when it's AGI, like, we don't know, but like, we basically don't need humans anymore. It's kind of like the end state, you know, that's like the, I mean, that's like one possible end state where they're just like, they decide on themselves because they can think for themselves and they're far superior to us at basically every task that they just decide that they don't, they don't even need, or maybe they need us, but it's more like the matrix, right?
Essentially you'd have like a bunch of robots working that in like an Amazon warehouse. But what would happen is they wouldn't just do what you told them to do. They would fucking make it the best, most efficient working warehouse you've ever seen just because they'd be figuring that out themselves. And then like, right, everybody would be sitting at home. And this is the part where like, you got to think about like, what's your purpose as a person? And really how, like, how indisposable are you?
Like a lot of people, like even the guy who's like a fucking prep cook in my mind is not like, that's, that guy's not job security at all. Nobody has job security anymore. Cause like, there's, there's ways to build robots that can do all this shit, bro. So it's like, um, yeah, at a point, like you, do you even need AGI to replace people though? You don't, because like you said, good things, right? You just need that task to be possible with technology. And then the second that that happens, even if it's a basic AI system that's implemented with other
shit, it doesn't matter. Even if it's a closed system, not connected to the internet and it's a dumb, a dumb AI, like a little niche local AI, as long as that replaces a human that you don't have to pay a salary to that's, that's the bearish part of all this shit, bro. And like, what is the, uh, what's the gap from here to there? That makes sense. Which like generally, if you're like talking about a long enough time scale is going to be like you, well, no money because robots are doing everything, bro. But like universal base income, probably
to like solve it in the midterm. But how does that look? I don't fucking know. But do I trust anybody? No, that's why I love crypto, bro. Cause then I got my own shit in a fucking leisure. I just fucking leave. Um, don't have to worry about that shit. Right. But that's, that's the type of future type shit that I'm thinking of where it's like, there's a weird, we're about to be in a weird scenario here soon. Right? Like AI is ramping up. Like you said, all this shit's converging. It's not, it's not going to be pretty. I don't think at first. So like being prepared and just like being hyper aware. And like, like you said, actually, like,
knowing and like seeing what's possibly coming. I think that's like very important right now. So that's like where I'm trying to stay is just like ahead of the puck type shit. And then like away from this, I already moved out of the city actually. And that was like a calculated move. Uh, I rushed that because it was calculated. I moved out early and cut my lease to get the fuck out of there. Cause I was like, let's get the fuck away from all these humans. But, uh, yeah, we'll see, man. It's going to be an interesting couple of years. I'm bullish for all of us.
And for the people I know, but I would also say, be careful. Cause it's going to get fucking weird and don't trust anything because everything's fake now possibly. And that's just true. I could, I could, I could clone my voice and I could just do this right now. And just like, kind of not be here. Like I am here, but soon that could be a thing. I could just be King Arf on the internet. You would have no idea. Like, like Sam, I was saying, and I don't have to be tokenized either. I could just be a fucking guy talking.
I could be calling your mom, uh, talking like you. Cause I got your voice off of a fucking space. So like me and my mom have code words already, bro. Like shit like that. Like I, it's, I I'm like paranoid with this shit because AI is not, it's, it's not a joke. It's like it, it's dude, there's like opsec. That's going to go into this. Like, you're going to have to have like anti AI shit because like, they're going to be trying to hack stuff and like break all kinds of algos. And like, it's going to be ridiculous, bro. Encryption. It's a whole,
like there's like four layers of AI to build on. And like, all of those are going to have security and like, it's going to be a whole fucking ecosystem. That's like ridiculous to be honest. But, uh, yeah, safe dude. It's, uh, going to be crazy. I get, I get really deep in this shit. It's a very like nuanced convo, but the, the really, the point is, is that shit's about to get exponential. Like that's, you know what I mean? It's, it just is what it is. And, uh, I love technology. So that's super bullish, but even me, I'm like kind of scared and, uh, concerned. So it is what it is, but we'll see. Uh, I think
we're going to be on the right side of it, at least if we're like hyper aware of what's happening. So that's the move.
Well, yeah. I mean, the key is, you know, how do we set the primitive foundation for this that keeps us in control? And that's why I'm so passionate about identity management and, um, and how that plays a lane here and what that page in the book's going to be.
Um, because I think there are just very basic building blocks that help us and will help us even more, um, importantly in the future, uh, as these things start to come up to King's point, right?
Because there's not going to be any delineation very soon between, you know, this cute puppet up here on stage, man, that motherfucker is a G. Uh, but it's probably not even going to be him.
He's going to be out here drinking my ties with, you know, good things out in South America. And, um, but running these spaces as if you thought he was in, to me, the, the moat is the transition from logical reasoning to inductive and emotional reasoning.
And Z to answer your question, I think that's really, I think where the line in the sand is being drawn for a lot of practitioners in the space. Um, fun fact, actually, prior to jumping down the rabbit hole too heavily in like building blockchain systems and such for, for companies, I had founded a, um, an AI business.
There's actually a really cool, if you want some, um, information on like more of these qualitative elements of, of AI, go check out, um, the Stanford Institute of Human Centered Artificial Intelligence or HAI and Fifi Lee, um, who is one of the just absolute OGs in AI.
She used to run Google's AI ML cloud division, uh, founded, um, the Institute of HAI at Stanford.
And the whole premise of the Institute is specifically what we're discussing here, which is what are the more qualitative, um, components of the human, um, kind of experience, whether that's liberal arts or music or personalities or whatever.
Um, and how do those transition into a more empirical format like data and machine learning, et cetera.
And there's, there's a whole school of, of research that's being done on this topic that I just think is fascinating.
Um, and one of the companies that I, um, had, had co-founded and, and sold actually to the company that I work at now, um, essentially is a AI tool.
Um, we call it personality intelligence and we predict the personality of an individual, um, AKA, like, I don't know if you guys are familiar with Carl Jung or whoever.
Um, but there's 16 personality types and, uh, uh, our AI tool, um, essentially was able to predict your personality without you needing to take a questionnaire or really give us any input whatsoever.
Um, and we had the whole entire country scored, um, and literally how we would deploy this.
It was really more from a sales and marketing standpoint is we would, um, essentially dynamically change content and, um, messaging and positioning, um, based on an individual's kind of, um, almost, um, subconscious personality structure.
So our personalities fundamentally define how we receive, understand, validate information and form a relationship with a person, product or brand.
Um, and so how you, you know, it's the old, like, sell me this pen.
Right.
Um, and at the end of the day, how you sell something, um, quite statistically, um, what we found was, um, how you sold something, um, accounts for approximately 75% of a human decision to buy, purchase, or make, you know, any kind of engagement with what it is you're communicating to them.
Right.
And, you know, if you and I were sitting in front of a desk together, we'd have the benefit of three feet of pine.
Right.
You'd be able to read my nonverbal communication skills, which is 80% of communication.
And you'd be able to read me a little bit and maybe change or adjust how you're talking to me.
If you're selling me something or trying to get me to engage with whatever it is that we're talking about.
Well, systems don't have that luxury.
Right.
They don't know who is logging onto the site.
And so as an example, let's say I'm, uh, um, a big picture thinker, innovative kind of guy, and I've got that type of personality.
Um, and, um, a brand wants to sell me mushrooms.
Well, um, that brand might need to show me a finished plate of spaghetti with the pasta sauce and mushrooms already prepared.
So I can think future sense about what the meal is going to be.
My wife, on the other hand, is a very practical pros, cons, um, you know, very like pragmatic kind of person.
She's a doctor, she's a dermatologist, so everything is a process and, you know, a set of rules and procedures and for them, they can never get to the future without understanding the present.
And so for that same set of mushrooms, I might show her, um, you know, packaged mushrooms, which are pre-sliced with third-party validation that these are organic.
Uh, or maybe they're the cheapest in town so that, um, she can go through her comparative assessment of what they are today.
She could give a shit about what it looks like as the finished plate of food, right?
I'm still selling the mushroom, but how did I sell it?
Did I show you a finished plate of spaghetti or did I show you pre-sliced mushrooms and validate for you, um, that it's the cheapest in town and that it's organic?
And just being able to understand that positioning to me and how that lays into AI, and I can tell you, like, some of the largest brands in the world are using this tech after we sold it.
And, um, it's pretty gnarly, man, um, when you think about that.
And that's a perfect example of what I would consider more qualitative or human-centered intelligence, that these systems, when they gather that information or when they have the benefit of that information, they're able to dynamically change everything about how they interact with you.
Right.
Whether that's visual cues, whether that's, you know, audio or, or, or even copy or messaging, um, that they're going to send you or show you on a website or in any kind of chat box service or anything.
Um, the, the benefit of that, um, kind of personality structure and, and having that awareness, um, and more importantly, the compatibility of what it's communicating to you relative to your personality is where I really feel like the next age of AI is going to go.
So, and, um, I don't believe that these systems are ever going to have a real, um, personality.
I don't believe that they're necessarily going to have feelings or emotional intelligence the way that, um, you know, we do certainly.
Um, but I think they're going to trick us into believing they do.
Um, and as long as we believe that, then our behaviors will start changing and the way that we start interacting things will also follow suit.
And I think that's, um, really going to be the office for what, um, and really blockchain is the only way, in my opinion, that can solve this.
Right.
And really protect and, and, and make sure that that foundational layer of separating the difference between a human and a non-human exists.
So I know we sound like really fucking out there, like sci-fi about this shit, but I'm telling you.
Sorry to Barjim, but I think, I think there's a big challenge there when you say blockchain is the only way.
Because in just in the web to world, uh, when it comes to, um, AI analysis, risk analysis, latency is a big challenge, right?
Uh, all the solutions, all the apps, uh, are new solutions which come into market or first evaluated through payment apps, right?
That has been the, uh, the playbook, right?
For ages.
Um, so risk analysis, you just mentioned you were part of, um, some identity team, right?
So anytime you're doing any model analysis for us, uh, you want to use AI to do that, but then latency is a big challenge there.
Right.
Other, uh, and, and to the point of like, is AI going to replace us?
I don't think so.
Just looking at the garbage, it spits out for code samples.
So even though, uh, the code sample it spits out is also based on like the, the, the data it has, right.
And humans write those code and it's just collecting that code.
And it's trying to bake, give you like the best possible, uh, suggestion based on the code.
Right.
And then if humans are writing those codes, there are like a lot of loopholes in that code.
Like there are a lot of security holes in those code samples, right?
Because, uh, it's logical thinking you are trying to break a problem into granular, you know, steps.
And it all depends on how well you are breaking it down, right?
How well you are able to write that code.
And then based on that, um, you will be able to, uh, propose a solution.
Right.
So these machines are just like, for example, GitHub copilot is just looking at the samples of code and giving you a suggestion.
Right.
Now, again, it's up to you to figure out is this suggestion, you know, fits your problem statement, right?
How well it fits your problem statement, how secure is it, right?
So again, a human has to be in control of making those decisions, right?
So from that practical view, uh, point of view, it's far, far away.
Like it's not even close.
Uh, like I said, it just fits garbage right now.
So, uh, I think there's a lot of, I agree with you, um, not to interrupt.
Like I do think you make a very important point, which is one of the main reasons why we understand that when you talk to Alexa or Siri as an example, that they are not human is because of how slow they are.
Right.
Like when you and I have a conversation, we're able to bring logical reasoning to the conversation real time.
Right.
And more importantly, we understand context and that, that many times is indirect context.
It's not context of what we're actually talking about.
It's as an example, um, it's the context that I understand that the weather is fucking cold as shit here.
Right.
And maybe it's hot there.
And we both know that, um, you know, as a sub context to our conversation, it has no relevancy to our conversation, but that context, um, when you take that in a very dynamic set is what allows for real time.
Um, essentially zero latency, critical reasoning and conversation, right.
And understanding.
And, and, and I think, um, latency is going to be the number one thing that, um, uh, at least in the near term that a lot of companies are thinking about that and, um, anti-hallucination models, which is kind of the two main things that we spend a lot of time on.
Um, cause yes, these, these robots start fucking hallucinating, um, because to, to Bashi's point, um, in trash out trash, and they start believing things that, um, are just not true.
And, and, and they'll literally take, um, their own path.
And so you actually have to train that out through anti-hallucination models.
I will say though, at least in terms of some of the, um, the solutions architectures that we've been researching at our company, there are methods, you know, conceptually very similar to running an L2, um, on a blockchain network.
That rapidly and exponentially reduce the latency of that, um, conversation essentially by not having to hit the APIs and, you know, ask the main, you know, kind of engine, so to speak, to give you feedback and storing a lot of that, um, context data local.
And, and I also believe that, um, the advancements in decentralized storage and decentralized compute, um, will rapidly increase, or I should say reduce the latency.
So while I do agree that latency is probably the number one obstacle in, um, you know, a, a perception of AGI today, I also believe that the advancements in that, in that side of the conversation will be here very, very soon.
I know we already have R&Ds and prototypes that, you know, are, as an example, 1,000 times, um, more responsive than chat GPT-4 in terms of speed, um, and how quickly it can give you, um, response, right?
And that's through custom stacks and using decentralized storage and decentralized compute, um, which again, um, blockchain is the only way you can solve for it.
And the reason my statement really is that blockchain is the only way that an effective AI product will ever work in the future is because the immutability, um, and the attribution of the data itself, right?
Um, and, and to me, the data integrity, um, is the number one issue to your point, right?
In trash, out trash, and a lot of, um, traditional cloud-based, you know, more centralized, um, compute standards, um, they, they don't have that data integrity, right?
And so I think that's also going to be something that ends up being very, very important in this next age.
And blockchain is really the only way that you can get immutable records that can't be compromised, uh, and that have true sovereign custody that can't be influenced.
And, you know, blockchain don't lie.
And so at the end of the day, it's also the only way we can actually empirically prove that, uh, a human made a decision of, let's say, X, Y, or Z.
Um, so fundamental attribution is a major obstacle in traditional, um, analytics frameworks, as well as the quality and integrity of the data that you're bringing into your model set.
So, uh, to me, blockchain is really the only way you solve those two conversations.
Sheesh!
Sandman fucking, jeez.
I did not know that I was going to go to class tonight.
I am extremely fucking grateful.
Um, Bashi, welcome.
Do you understand that this is a Bitcoin Puppets ETF space and you're rocking that fire-ass node monk?
Actually, I'm rocking one.
What the fuck am I talking about?
Hey, buddy, I've got a bunch of puppets.
That's why I'm here, man.
I can't stop buying these new puppets, man.
I got a disease.
You should buy more.
You got a fever and the only cure is more pups.
True that.
Yeah, another dope.
Definitely get more.
No, but, but seriously, like, um, dude, I haven't seen an AI conversation like this, uh, on spaces ever.
It usually devolves into, like, stupidity, um, and people, like, trying to prove how much they know.
But the intelligent conversation that you guys have been having, I took a fucking shower.
I was trying to interrupt, just let people know.
But then I realized I don't even have to because, uh, we got some, some G's up here that are just going to keep fucking going and cooking.
Well, yeah, I came out of the shower and, like, you guys were debating shit and Sandman, I mean, dude, that was such a great, uh, debate, man.
Um, Sandman, like, how long have you been working in AI again?
You said, like, since 2012, 2011?
Yeah, well, that was when I got into blockchain.
Um, I've been working in AI for about, um, that amount of time as well, I guess.
But, um, yeah, quite a while, worked, um, on some pretty big projects with IBM Watson, done a lot of stuff on the neural network, um, used to run, like, an analytics team, um, about 60 or 70 data scientists for a large commercial brand that did a whole bunch of big data analysis and such for, for commercial purposes.
But, yeah, it also is what kind of formed my conviction around what the biggest problem in that industry is.
And, and to me, it comes down to, like, just how slimy it feels that, you know, all of these big tech companies literally own the most valuable resource on the planet.
And I'm not talking about Bitcoin.
I'm talking about data, which actually is the only thing that actually creates value anymore in this, um, digital age.
And here's the beautiful thing about it, which I think really gets us into a conversation of abundance.
And in a way where we actually hit that S curve in terms of just, like, growth.
And, and that's because data, uh, in fact, is unlimited.
And so, unlike Bitcoin, it is not a scarce resource.
More and more data is being, as we talked about earlier, produced every single day.
And, and so that means that it's literally a faucet of money.
Uh, and so who owns that and who controls and decides how that gets monetized, to me, fundamentally, should be me or you, right?
If it's our data.
And to me, that was, like, the biggest thing.
The more that I was in this industry, the more I was like, man, something is just fucked up here.
The fact that these systems and these tools have these capabilities and I have no influence, control, or custody over anything that's happening here.
Um, which is why I'm so, so fucking bullish on, like, Web 5 and, you know, the things that are being done in that space and identity management.
Because I just think, as I mentioned, like, five times already, this will be essentially the main, you know, there are battles and wars, right?
Um, that is the war, right?
This ETF thing is a battle that we won.
That's great.
Like, we won a battle.
But there's going to be thousands of these.
And the war is really going to be around the data and the custody and who owns it and who monetizes it.
And until we really get control of our own information, like NGMI, as far as I'm concerned.
So, very, very passionate about this.
Dude, you are speaking, goddammit, Tim, man.
I wish we had cross-passed way earlier than we did.
But I'm so grateful because literally, like, that's why I started studying AI, dude.
Um, you're speaking absolute fucking facts.
Um, I posted up to the top.
Uh, there's going to be a spaces tomorrow at, I think it's 8 a.m. Eastern.
Um, but basically this is, I think, going to be a giant spaces for Bitcoin puppets and node monks and ordinals in general.
Um, I was invited, uh, to be a speaker.
Um, and there's several other people that are, that are goats, like, um, Coop Capital and, uh, Psyduck and a bunch of legends.
Um, but definitely recommend people propagate that.
I mean, this is my tweet, but they have one as well.
Because, uh, I think, like, we were talking about earlier, like, the power of networks.
Like, we're all part of this network that we've been forming organically over the last several years.
Um, but what I think is going to happen this cycle in a way that we haven't seen before is, like, different parts of the world, especially, that have been, you know, basically disparate for a number of reasons.
A lot of, a lot of politics, for sure.
But then there's just geographic constraints.
But I think we're going to, you know, I think the East is going to meet the West, uh, through this, through this, uh, like, through this industry in a way that it hasn't before.
Um, and so basically this is a group, uh, Bitcoin Square is a, um, let me just read what they DM me so I don't, they said, um, hi, good things, uh, we're Bitcoin Square, a Chinese alpha community.
Uh, so that's how they, that's how they, you know, characterize themselves.
So I don't want to just go on record saying like they are from, it looks like the content of China.
And, um, you know, I think this is a very big deal.
This is not the first space that I've been on or seen other folks be on from the West.
But I think them reaching out to me and several other people is like a strong sign.
And you, you saw Jason Sora in here earlier, you know, again, he's based in, in Taiwan.
Um, we're seeing people, you know, I think reaching across, uh, like geographic regions in a way that we haven't seen before.
So I, I definitely recommend people try to attend that space if you can and just help us propagate it.
Cause China is buying to China is definitely buying, um, all of Asia, I think is very excited about this stuff.
And so, yeah, um, just, just kind of, uh, self-promotion there, but also for, for all of our puppets.
Um, Sandman, I saw you had to drop, dude.
Thank you again so much.
What a fucking legend.
King Arf, Bashy.
Um, we got Toot on stage.
Uh, we got Leo still here.
Leo, uh, do you have any thoughts?
Oh, fuck me, dude.
Ghostload's coming up.
Oh, shit.
Ghostload sounds crazy right now.
Dude, Ghostload, Ghostload is just going around, just fucking unloading, dude.
Guys.
What's up?
What is going on?
What's up, Ghostload?
Dude, the more I learn about these ordinal shit, the harder my nipples get.
We don't have nipples.
They're fucking rock hard.
I could cut glass.
There's no nipples.
I love you.
This is great.
There's no nipples.
I do have some, some serious questions though.
About the nipples?
Not the nipples.
About ordinals.
What's up?
What happened?
I'm trying to learn some more about this shit that's going on.
What do you need to know?
So, yeah, what are you going to know?
So, the ordinal protocol, right?
There was never sat before ordinals?
There were already sat before ordinals.
They were just utilized by the ordinals protocol, but they existed before already.
Like, one Bitcoin has already been 100 million sets, if I'm correct, right?
Good things.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Sorry, I was messaging China, telling them to buy.
What was the question?
If stats have been a thing before ordinals, and I told them that they have already...
Earlier, you used to win, like, for all the altcoins, you used to measure their values in satoshis, right?
Yeah, I mean, the answer to the question, Ghostload, is, of course, sats have always existed, but they just didn't really matter.
You know, we really didn't care about them.
We didn't value them.
You know, no one was like, you know, here's my two sats.
People would say that and be like, who is that guy?
Now you say that, you're cool as fuck.
You're probably, you know, riding around, you know, soon to be on a yacht.
Yeah, I mean, it's the landscape's changed.
So, with ordinals, right?
I guess I'm trying to say, ordinals basically made sats useful.
Yeah, right.
And do you guys know, like, the mechanics of it at all?
Like, I'm trying to understand, like...
So, like, when the sats are inscribed, sats are inscribed, right?
They're not mined.
And you inscribe these fucking sats on certain blocks.
So, the sats, I can't, honestly, I can't tell if I'm walking into something Ghostload, and I hope I am.
But if I'm not, and you're being genuine...
I'm being genuine, that's fuck.
I swear to God, I'm trying to learn.
Okay.
But, yeah, no, so, basically, like, yeah, like, sats are the lowest denomination of a bitcoin, right?
Like, one bitcoin equals, I forget the goddamn count, I shouldn't know this off the top of my head, but...
It's like a hundred million sats.
And so, every block that's mined is producing a new block of bitcoins, which you break those down as a block of sats.
And what Casey did is he took basically a concept called Follow the Satoshi, which was developed many, many years ago by Charlie Lee, the creator of Litecoin.
And he basically created this system around it where you can track, you can basically differentiate satoshis based on the order in which they appear in each block.
So, you can numerically number them and track the order of them, and you basically put a number to each one.
So, what's happening with inscriptions, so the difference between an inscription and a sat is, like, the sat is a real part of a bitcoin.
The inscription is just data that is uploaded to the network.
So, it's not a sat.
It's literally just, like, data that's put in there.
And what Casey...
It's put on the sat?
No, no, no, no.
It's put on the chain...
It's put in a block.
Like, there's data...
There's four megabytes that you can store in each bitcoin block.
And there's a certain...
Like, it's...
There's different parts of the block that you can store data in.
So, basically, what's happening when you inscribe, like, an ordinal, is you're putting data on there.
So, say you're taking a picture of your PFP.
You're putting it on bitcoin, and then you're basically, through the ordinal's protocol, it's basically associating a sat with that data.
So, there's no actual linkage on-chain between the data you upload and the sat that you hold in your wallet.
It's all, basically, a shared hallucination, as Casey called it.
Right.
But good things, isn't, like, the unique identifier created for that particular sat, right?
Using the ordinal theory, you are creating that numeric identifier, and now you are enumerating or you are creating this data, this image, this text.
You're associating it with that numeric identifier for that particular sat.
And so, compared to, like, Ethereum, that just, like, on their contract, it's not really, like, stored on the network?
Because it just, like, for example, it just points to, like, an IPFS or whatever?
So, that data...
Yeah, so, Ethereum is very different.
It's, like, a completely different system.
So, Ethereum uses, like, smart contracts to enable people to do basically whatever they want using the native language of Ethereum, which, for whatever reason, I can't remember things right now.
But, yeah, like, basically, there's...
Yeah, so, when you create a smart contract, like, you're able to custom, you know, you create custom logic to do whatever you want.
You can create, you know, non-fungible tokens.
You can create fungible tokens.
And it's basically, like, it's, like, what you can do is bound by the rules that the protocol has set up for each one of those standards.
So, ERC-20 handles fungible.
ERC-721 handles non-fungible.
And then, of course, there's, like, other adaptations of it where you can do different stuff.
But it's just a very different system.
With Bitcoin, it's actually quite simple.
You can store data using the Ordnose protocol.
You can store, I mean, using Bitcoin, you can store data.
You upload it there.
And then, using the protocol, you can associate that data with, basically, a SAT.
And that's the Ordnose.
The SAT itself is the Ordnose.
And that's basically your, basically, receipt that you own that data on Bitcoin.
Okay. Awesome.
Whereas on Ethereum, you can store data on-chain and actually, like, you know, own that data on-chain through a token.
But a lot of what we see in the NFT, like, I mean, the overwhelming majority of NFTs on Ethereum are actually just pointers that are pointing to data that's stored off-chain.
Yeah, like 90%, I'd say.
Yeah, like, the vast majority.
I don't know the exact numbers, but I would estimate, yeah, over 90%.
So, the cool thing, like, a very special thing about Ordnose is, like, all the data is on-chain.
And you can still do the pointers, but because it's so elegant and so simple to just, like, put the stuff on-chain and, like, you know, own it, like, you're owning something on-chain and not pointing to something off-chain, it, the vast majority of this stuff is on-chain.
Like, what you own, you're owning the data, you're claiming ownership of the data that lives on-chain versus pointing to something that's off-chain, which is the norm on all the other blockchains.
Go ahead, Leo.
Yeah, beautifully explained.
I just wanted to add, if you guys are new to the Ordnose Protocol and all of that, you can also check out the Ordnose website.
Casey, the creator of the Ordnose Protocol itself, is super, super good at explaining stuff and all of this.
And he has actually written a whole explanation of the protocol with all the questions you just asked on the official Ordnose.com website.
You can just check it out on the left side of the website.
That's somewhere in the left corner or something, yeah.
Alright, I'll definitely repeat that. I appreciate that info.
So, my last question, which I guess really ties it all in, is what I'm trying to understand, and what I'm investigating right now, is basically ancient sats.
Alright?
The original sats from Block 9.
Dinosaur sats.
So, these original sats, right, they can't be, like, replicated, or, like, once they're inscribed on, right, associated with data, they can't be, like, replicated.
So, the sats themselves cannot be replicated, but let's say you own one of these sats, and you inscribe some data, and now you own that inscription through, you know, as an ordinal, you can actually re-inscribe it.
So, you can basically, you're not, you're not, the data, everything you inscribe on Bitcoin is immutable, but you can basically create, like, a catalog if you want to visualize.
So, actually, there's multiple collections that have already done this.
Anche Monkey Genesis is one of them.
There's, yeah, there's several projects that have, that have done this using re-inscription, where they take the same sat, and they keep uploading data to Bitcoin, and basically, through the, through the ordinal indexer, you can view, basically, like, this catalog of data that lives on a single sat, essentially.
Okay, okay.
That's, that's pretty fucking sweet.
Yeah, but the, the, but the sat itself, like, if you got yourself some grails, like, you know, I don't know, what you believe to be something super valuable.
Sats, you don't have to worry about, like, that, that, or that sat ever being replicated.
It won't, it's not possible.
Well, I was looking at, like, ordinals that, like, described on, like, Block 9, and do you guys know, like, how many collections there are that can be on Block 9?
So, the supply of Block 9 is massive.
I don't have the numbers, but, like, the total supply that exists out there in the world is, is absolutely massive.
The supply that is in circulation, that's another story.
And, yeah, I mean, so, to inscribe on Block 9, you have to, you basically got to own the Block 9s, so it's not, it's not free.
I think it's probably historically cheap right now, but to buy a bunch of Block 9s, depending on how many units you're talking about, but if you're trying to do, like, a good size collection, you got to buy all those Block 9s, and then you have to actually pay the inscription fees.
So, it's actually quite expensive to inscribe on Block 9.
How much do you think it's in the scribe?
Say, like, I want to, like, reserve a slot.
I mean, go buy some sats, man.
I mean, that's the thing.
Where can I buy sats?
Satting.io, I think, is one.
There's, like, a few places you can buy them, right?
But, yeah, like, I bought a Block 9 just in case I want to, like, I do want to put some shit on the, I've already inscribed some shit, actually, back in the day, but not anything cool, really.
I mean, it's cool shit, but I just, like, inscribed it.
How many people in space?
This is way too much alpha right now.
Dude, it's not alpha.
It's just code.
It's murder.
They can't have it.
They can't have my Block 9.
It could have.
Is there enough for me?
You just got to go on.
Get up, brother.
Dude, there's not enough ghosts.
Go to Magic Eden.
Yeah, it's everywhere, bro.
It's never going to stop.
There's not enough alpha.
I don't know enough.
Wait, what's this website called, real quick?
I need to know this website where I could buy sats.
Isn't satting.io one?
Like, don't just type it in.
Like, go find that shit.
Satting?
Trust me.
I'm just a guy, bro.
Like, look that shit up.
Oh, okay.
I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
No, I'm going to look up other websites.
Don't get rugged.
Don't get rugged.
No, no.
I'm going to do research.
People nowadays use Magic Eden or magisat.io.
Magisat.
Magisat.
Magisat, yeah.
And how do you know, like, which block you're getting?
Do you have to, like, I guess you have to, like, filter?
It's, like, almost, like.
Yeah, those sites have, they have a whole filtration system, bro.
There's, like, all kinds of different, you know, things that are considered valuable to
different people for whatever the fuck reasons.
But I did purchase, like, some block nine sats on there.
So, like, because of the reinscription thing, right?
Because you have, like, a whole catalog on one single sat and do cool stuff there.
So, I'm already, like, kind of thinking down that road.
But, yeah.
Oh, man.
You know what I mean?
Just, like, buy the sats.
I'm getting horny.
Okay.
I mean, like, I've been horny because, like, I have four puppets because I've been buying
the dips.
These puppets started at all, guys.
These puppets started at all.
I keep waking up and it's higher and it's pissing me off because I, like, literally, I was
talking to y'all about this, dude, where we're, like, it's one of those things where
you're, like, in a project and you're, like, okay, so, like, next dip, like, you
know, like, 0.02 and cool and no worries.
And then it doesn't dip and you wake up and it's still at 0.03 and you're, like, what's
happening here?
Why is there so much value and why are the Chinese buying?
But it's bullish, I think.
I keep waking up and I'm, like, excited again.
It's interesting.
But, yeah, send it higher, dude.
I don't really care.
I position myself to not care about it also, which is, by the way, bullish on that.
You shouldn't care about any of this.
So, I don't know.
We're riding with the puppets.
World peace toots in.
He's got the mod glasses.
I'm kind of jealous of his, dude.
I got the Krantz, too, though, with the mushroom hat.
It's the orange back, by the way.
I don't know if you noticed that.
I got an orange background ketamine shirt, okay?
But I only wear this guy because, look at this.
God, we're comparing traits.
We're so fucking back, bro.
It hurts.
Yeah, I'm naked, though.
I'm literally butt naked right now.
Bro, I got a naked mushroom hat, dude.
This is actually the only one that I bought.
I'm going into this bull market as a trade door, like a sophisticated trade door, okay?
So, I figured I would buy one that I really, really liked, and I figured it would be the
orange background just because, you know, fucking orange pill, dickhead, Bitcoin, MF-er.
But most of the ones that I bought are off the floor.
Like, I just don't care.
I put them in a separate wallet that I'm going to trade and do what I do just because reasons.
You know, profit max you over everything.
I love the tech.
I love the Bitcoin.
I love the puppets.
Puppets.
I love Mog.
But I'm not going to repeat the same fucking mistake as I did, you know, during the last
bull market.
I will be fucking selling shit and making a lot of fucking money.
Save, bro.
Send it.
And then, like, remember at the end, remember, remember, don't forget to sell when your family's
talking about crypto, bro.
My rule is once you screenshot, it's time to sell.
That too.
Any of that shit.
If you're feeling any type of way, just sell.
If you have feelings again, sell.
For some reason, right after the screenshot, it just goes down.
Every single time, bro.
Or you show your girl.
If you're showing your girl your shit, you know you're over-investing.
If you have a girl, sell.
Oh, shit.
Dude, we got to go.
I got to go to Sandman, dude.
Sandman, get in here.
Sorry, man.
Elon keeps on rugging me right now.
Sorry, I'm, like, jumping back and forth, man.
But interested in this, like, re-inscription process.
So how is the data archived?
And, like, what are the limitations to, like, upgrading that media or, you know, replacing
it with the re-inscription information?
I mean, there's a catalog, right?
But what are the limitations to that?
Yeah, so basically, I mean, the limit is your imagination, Sandman.
No, I'm kidding.
You basically, I don't know that there is much of a limit.
Like, there's no limit in terms of how many times you can re-inscribe a Satoshi.
Like, you can just keep re-inscribing it.
I don't know what other limit you might be thinking of, but, Leo, you've unmuted.
Go ahead.
Sorry, I actually didn't even notice I was unmuted.
I also...
As my co-host, I got to get on you about this.
We got to pay attention to that hot mic.
I'm just kidding, man.
I know that you can re-inscribe, like, good things said, unlimited times.
You just got to be aware of the fees with the file size on Bitcoin when you inscribe.
And, yeah.
Li4Fifo is a great person in the space to talk about re-inscriptions, if you heard of him.
He also inscribed the first fully re-inscribed collection.
So, he has a ton of knowledge when it comes to re-inscriptions.
Yeah, I don't know him.
I'd love to kick his brain on it.
And I guess, just to clarify, like, I'm less interested in, like, the number of times you can do it,
but very interested in what the file size limitations are.
And if there has to be, like...
Is it 4.4?
What is it 4?
I don't like L2s, but if there has to be some sort of parallel network,
that's also on-chain that supports the archival or how that works.
Yeah, so you can inscribe 4 megabytes on one block,
but this requires that you would work with a miner.
And I think only...
There are a few people that have done this before,
but I think in terms of projects,
Taproot Wizards is the only project that has done it.
I also don't know how much they have paid for it,
but it's definitely super expensive.
It's not really affordable for casual inscribers.
The recursion feature of Ordinance enabled to basically surpass this limit.
I don't know how the prices are going up with the file size exactly,
but everything that is above one and a half megabyte,
even a quarter of this is very, very expensive.
So usually files are very compressed and slow when people inscribe.
True.
Generative art is a big one.
I actually have been working on a lot of stuff that I want to inscribe,
and generative art is interesting because it's code.
So that's one thing that I've noticed that is a really good use case for Bitcoin in general.
I was already working on some P5JS shit back in the day,
and then, yeah, the whole Ordinal thing happened,
and I inscribed some Matrix-style-looking fucking HTML, CSS bullshit back in the day,
and it worked, and I was like, oh, fuck,
and it was animated in the Unisat wallet, all that shit,
and I was like, okay, this is really cool.
So I just kind of started looking into it.
And then, yeah, recently I put together a bunch of shit that I want to inscribe,
and parent-child and all that stuff makes sense.
And then re-inscription makes sense because then you could just inscribe on one set,
have a catalog of all this cool shit,
and if it's generative art, it's going to be way cheaper and more efficient
than images would be.
So I think generative art is huge, bro.
And I've seen pumps on generative art recently, too,
so it's like actually the data's there for that to support it.
So I would look for generative artists, bro.
I think that there's probably going to be a lot of them coming there
that are really good, that can do cool shit with the tech
because they're already doing generative art with code.
And on Bitcoin, those are the people that are going to be able to have their work shine there,
I think, because it's going to be more affordable
than people who are doing actual images and shit.
Yeah, no, I mean, so code is the alpha.
I mean, it always is.
The whole world runs on fucking code already.
But, you know, for ordinals, like if you're talking about trying to scale anything,
it's only going to happen with code because of that four megabyte constraint.
That's why recursion was like such a revolutionary thing that happened mid last year in June
with that being rolled into the ordinals protocol.
Because for the first time ever, you could basically circumvent the four megabyte restriction
on what you can, you know, as far as like coordinating a single image, for example.
You could upload different layers and then put them together, right, using recursion.
But what King Arth is talking about is absolutely the alpha.
Like, I won't get too far into it, but I mean, it's been done multiple times at this point
where you inscribe code.
Like, if we're just talking about art, you know, you inscribe basically a parent collection.
It contains all the code to basically generate the entire collection.
And then you inscribe children that reference the parent in order to, like, you know,
create the image on chain at a very, very small file size.
And then, you know, that's how you scale.
And that's going to be the future for sure because these fees, when they go sky high,
like, nobody's going to be uploading, like, 10,000 images or even 200 images,
depending on what they are.
Well, even the stuff that I was inscribing, like, back then, you know, like, dude,
it's like 10x more.
Like, some of them would have cost so much more to do some of that.
Now, like, I wish I inscribed more stuff back then.
My buddy Sham, dude, I got to give him flowers because he was like,
going crazy.
He was inscribing everything.
Like, that guy's probably got more ordinals than anybody I know because he was inscribing
just anything he could, like, super early.
He's got a bunch of low inscriptions, cool shit that he did.
So, yeah, shout out to him.
But the code definitely is the alpha.
And, like, knowing this is kind of crazy because this is the one time where, like,
the knowledge is not only, like, the alpha, but it's also the key to, like,
making the money because, like, the more you know about how it works,
the better that you can get at getting things early or making.
things early and, like, participating and shit.
So, yeah, it's a really bullish ecosystem.
Like, I know what ETH is and that shit's, like, it's not cooked, bro,
but, like, it's hard to, like, innovate and build there.
Like, the platform's already there.
So, like, you can just go there and do shit.
But, like, Bitcoin's different because you could be, like,
the first to do something there, like, actually.
Or you could, like, carve out a niche there.
Like, I don't know, like, autism with Bitcoin puppets and fucking, you know,
me on the fucking Bitcoin walk chain.
Just getting fucked up every day, bro.
Having a good time for when the normies get here.
So, I just think it's a good place to build.
So, like, there's definitely shit that I want to do there and already have as, like,
tests and experiments and shit.
Just, like, spending hella money just, like, inscribing something for 40 bucks,
like, multiple times.
And then being, like, oh, okay, so this is how this works type shit.
And then, yeah, it's a bunch of base people, dude.
I don't know what else to say.
There's a bunch of, like, builders there that are building base shit.
So, if you want to make money, like, learn how it works and, like, the foundation.
Like, people did it with Solidity and all that bullshit, right?
Like, I had to learn smart contracts, at least to the level of, like,
understanding on how to, like, make sure.
Like, dude, I had to learn smart contracts to make money before
when certain projects didn't say if something had taken a serum yet.
So, I was like, how do you fucking read a smart contract to figure that out?
Learn that shit.
It's the same thing with Bitcoin.
Like, learn all the shit and, like, how to inscribe and, like,
how's the inscribing working was my question.
And the answer is, is fucking do it yourself.
Like, you could just do it yourself.
Like, you don't need a platform.
That's the craziest part to me is that I don't need to rely on anybody.
And that's why some of these builders are, like, thriving there is because they know
how this works.
So, they're able to, like, participate in every single part of Ordinals because, like,
when runes come out, they're right there and they already know how it works.
So, like, that's the type of shit I'm trying to be on, bro.
And there's, like, an opportunity there to do that.
So, bullish on that, bro.
Also buy puppets.
So, Arf, you know how, like, the MakerDAO is forking Solana as an L, like, it's an L1,
but they're forking it to essentially use as an L2 on EVM.
Like, are there people here, like, in the Ordinals ecosystem that are thinking about
it in the same way and, like, more of a hybrid execution where, you know, you kind of have
your origin point here, but you're leveraging other networks for more, like, sophisticated,
you know, you're going to need smart contracts and some of, like, the maturity of the EVM-based
platform to get any, in my opinion, real material level of scale.
Are there people, like, thinking about that or has that kind of been debunked or what?
So, like, it gets very, like, complicated to a level that I'm not even the expert to
talk about it, but there's people, like, working on things that are, like, similar to, like,
smart function or smart contract functionality, but, like, you know, it gets deep because,
like, you have to be, like, innovative and shit.
So, I don't, I'm not really the expert on that, but I would say yes.
Like, good things you might know of, like, anybody specifically who's working on shit like
that, but I know that, like, it's, like, rapidly trying to get developed right now.
And, like, I, some of the spaces that I've heard of these guys, like, talk shit like
this, it's, it's crazy what they're doing, really, and, like, how fast it's changing.
And it being so new and, like, being a year old, I think that, like, in a year, like,
questions like that are just going to make sense and there'll be, like, a place where
you can go do that.
Like, if you wanted to have these functions, then this is the platform you use to do that
or it's just in the ordinals fucking protocol now and it got added or whatever.
But I don't know how it ends up looking like, but yeah, like, people are working on stuff
like that and, like, especially those bitmaps guys, bro.
Like, I don't even know what the fuck's going on there, to be honest, but, like, the, what
it takes to, like, innovate on Bitcoin is a lot.
So, like, a lot of development has to happen there, which is just bullish.
I don't really care what happens with bitmaps because, like, regardless, they're trying to,
like, innovate and they're going to figure out something that makes, like, this type of thing
happen easier, you know, and then, like, those things chain together and then there's functions.
It's an internal internet, right, on Bitcoin.
So, once they get it foundationally sound and, like, dude, like, BRC20 sucked and we're
out to have runes, which are exponentially better.
So, I'm just, like, waiting for what is that, like, smart contract type solution that doesn't
look like a smart contract but does what it needs to, which I think is inevitable.
It's just, like, who's going to dev it and I don't really know, to be real.
Interesting.
This is epic, man.
What about, like, edge networks?
Like, because you still got to go through an ISP, right?
Good.
Like, at the end of the day, you still got to use the fucking internet.
So, are there people that are working on, like,
Still got to use AWS and Azure, man.
That's what I'm saying.
So, like, are there people that are talking about how to build ISP-oriented applications
or browser-based applications that go right on Ordinal?
Yeah.
Nothing that I've heard of yet.
That's actually a fascinating question.
Let's fucking cook.
Nothing that I've heard of yet.
That's where we need to go, man.
Let's go fucking cook that shit and send that shit to the nodes.
I'll trade you a node and we'll go cook it.
How's that?
Let's cook.
All right.
Somebody listen.
That's the biggest thing I have observed that there's not really many applications on
blockchains yet.
I think that's what the ICP people claim to have, an edge of the rest of the blockchain.
They have applications and none of the other blockchains have it, right?
But going back to the ordinals and the image questions, JPEG questions, I haven't really looked into
how it's uploaded or used in blockchains yet.
But there are a bunch of techniques to image compression and as far as CSS is concerned, you can just upload
one image and then keep referencing to that one image.
So I keep hearing this challenge that, yeah, for inscribing, you know, this is a challenge, right?
So I'm not sure, but King Earth, you just mentioned you used it, you did it yourself.
So can't you like just upload one big image and then keep referencing that image?
Like you can like break down that image into multiple smaller images where you can have different
type of images as part of that one big image, right?
And then you can just keep referencing to that image, to whatever different version of the NFT you want
to build out of it.
True.
Correct.
Yeah, that's using recursion.
Bullish.
Oh, okay.
Well, recursion on Bitcoin.
So anybody who's a software developer, your idea of recursion is very different from what this is doing.
It's kind of a confusing name.
It's not actually like the recursion that everybody learns about as an engineer.
But that's what they called it.
I still think it's a cool name because I always love the word recursion.
Whenever we had to solve data structure problems using recursion, I always feared it.
But when you get it, it's fucking amazing.
But yeah, I mean, like, that's how, so I've been saying this a lot to kind of all the folks
who are coming in through just like this latest PFP push.
But what we're seeing right now is like, it is like the early days of Bitcoin.
Like, like, what's going to be possible in the future, because you can use, you can basically
upload, you can upload code and then reference that code on chain.
Like Bitcoin is going to be a full blooded, like, it already is an app store, but it's
going to be like, it's going to be something like we can't even predict right now.
I mean, all kinds of shit is going to be traded and transacted on layer one Bitcoin.
And like, we're just in day zero still.
When is somebody going to just like, inscribe like an LLM, large language model with fucking
like all the weights and shit on there, bro?
That would be so expensive, but I'd be lit.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, Elon, aka Adrian, was asking about that like months ago.
And I'm just kind of was like, yeah, I mean, I mean, no, I don't want to say anything's
impossible, but I mean, that's, that's highly unlikely just because of the data cost.
I mean, I don't even know what a fucking LLM is in terms of size.
I know what like six gigs at like a low end, probably it's not going to work.
I don't think, dude.
Yeah.
I mean, you're going to need some technical leaps to even start talking about that, but
middle out.
Yeah.
Middle out.
Yeah.
But yeah, man, this has been, this has been quite the fucking day.
Um, I started the day with an incredible meeting.
Um, as some of you guys know, you know, I recently, um, you know, basically left my old
position, uh, at Anche Monkey and I'm a free agent right now.
So I'm looking for work.
Um, I'm not like desperately looking for work for me.
This is like, you know, this is my career.
Um, and what, what we're involved in right now, just being in this space, no matter what
you do, whether you're a, you know, just like a, a casual acquirer, you're a trader,
you're a builder and engineer and marketer, whatever it is you're doing, like we're all
part of something just fucking incredible here.
And, um, so yeah, I'm, I'm looking for kind of that next move to where I can, I can feel
comfortable, you know, dedicating another year to five years, you know, whatever it
takes.
Um, so I started off with an incredible meeting.
Then we get into, you know, the Bitcoin ETFs to this spaces where to be quite honest, uh,
I've heard a lot of like really bullshit space conversations about AI and to have like
the back and forth that we've had, where it's very intelligent, people asking questions,
people, you know, making arguments, not, not arguing, fighting, but like making good arguments
and then kind of like, I don't know.
It's just, this is what I live for.
Um, I really miss academia.
Uh, many parts of me miss that world.
Um, so I felt like I was getting a taste of that world again with Sandman and Bashi and
King Arf and Leo.
Um, and then, you know, um, what's his name that came in asking questions?
That guy, that kid, I don't know how old he is, but he's a fucking legend.
And he's hilarious as fuck.
If you ever see him go off into spaces, he's done it several times this today coming in
screaming about the Bitcoin ETF, but he, he legitimately came in here to learn.
Um, and I love to fucking see that Leo.
Go ahead.
Yo guys, I just wanted to say, I'm going to hop off now.
It's almost 3am here.
Um, I was just about to close down, man.
And now you got to take all the, all the, all right.
Ah, sorry, man.
I just wanted to say, I already set my reminder for tomorrow for your space.
Of course, I'm very excited to hear you then.
And yeah, guys, take care.
Dude, you're a legend, Leo, man.
We got to get on a call like tomorrow or the next day.
Um, appreciate you so much, man.
If you guys aren't following Leo, definitely follow him.
He's fucking alpha.
He's got a lot of great information on his, on his website.
Um, King Arthur, I want to give you some last words and then let's get the fuck out of
here.
Yeah.
Uh, let's get the fuck out of here.
Higher.
Let's fucking go.
What a fucking day.
Thank you again, everybody.
You just done one of my favorite spaces.
Small room where the top D's get up here and start fucking knowledge, alpha, building
relationships, back to you.
I just followed you.
I saw you're following me.
Everybody should be following each other if you've been listening along.
I mean, you got, you got a good head on your shoulders.
You got common interests.
Yala, I see you down there, buddy.
JPEG, T, doll hair, good foot, UM effort.
What's up, brother?
Golden, what a legend.
Cooter, sneaker, tactics, dragon, status, Pablo.
Look at that fucking puppet, man.
That brings me joy.
Every man for the self in this land, we be gunning.
And keep them show crews running like they supposed to.
They come around, but they never come close to.
I can see it inside the face, sitting in the wrong place.
Cowers like you just get their whole body laced up.
We're bullet holes and such.
Speak the wrong words, man, and you will get touched.
You can put your whole army against my team.
I guarantee you it'll be your very last time breathing.
Your simple words just don't move me.
You're minor, we major.
You're all up in the game and don't deserve to be a player.
Don't make me have to call your name out.
I always step away.
My gunshots will make you levitate.
I'm only 19, but my mind is older.
When the things get real, I want to turn cold.
If you're going to host spaces and you got shit to do, get a gangster-ass co-host like
King Art or Leo, and you can take showers.
You can make dinner.
I did all that while I was here.
Fucking amazing.
Big Point Puppet, world peace, motherfuckers.
Arm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
