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Bitcoin Renaissance w/ @elys_network
Recorded: March 27, 2025 Duration: 1:04:01Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, key figures in the Cosmos ecosystem highlighted the launch of new initiatives, including a live stream series and the integration of Bitcoin into the LS Network. With over $6 billion in Bitcoin staked during the testnet phase, the community is optimistic about growth and the potential for innovative partnerships, signaling a positive trend towards multi-chain interoperability and DeFi expansion.
Full Transcription
our chat together.
All right.
Yep, and I was able to tag LS Network, so that's awesome.
I'm pretty happy about that.
Sweet.
Okay, let's take a look here.
Awesome.
In the group chat?
Yeah, I just shared in the telegram.
Yeah, yeah. Awesome, okay. the group chat? I just shared in the telegram.
Awesome. Okay.
Awesome.
Awesome.
This is only my third
live stream that we've done. We started
three weeks ago with Tower
and then last week we had a special
guest, someone who I like that's outside of the Cosmos ecosystem,
my friend Dylan from Neo News Today.
And today I'm really excited to be able to talk to you.
It'll be a good chat.
I know we've talked for a long time.
It's been a couple of years, actually, just being aware of each other.
I've seen you just,
I've noticed more recently, I told you this already in the DMs, like you're making your
presence felt. I feel like you're everywhere. Every space I look in, you're saying what you
think about Cosmos, and so I love that. Thanks, Eric. Thanks for having me, by the way. I love
the work that you guys are doing with Babylon. I mean, it's just so incredible, like the presence
that you guys have in terms of representing the space. And yeah, I think when work that you guys are doing with Babylon. I mean, it's just so incredible, like the presence that you guys have in terms of representing the space.
And yeah, I think when was that last space we did together?
Was it two years ago or I guess a year and a half?
It was a year and a half ago, a year and a half ago, because it was still part of a series that we had called Scaling Bitcoin Sessions.
So yeah, it was a year and a half ago.
Too long.
Absolutely.
Yeah, a lot has happened since then.
And man, I couldn't be more impressed
with the work that you guys have done as a team.
And the fact that you've gone out there
and really just led from the front
and been able to do things
that most other teams can't do,
even in five years,
you guys did it in basically less than a year.
And the thing that we got excited about
is we saw the potential that Babylon
was going to bring to the cosmos ecosystem.
So from the very beginning, we actually baked you guys into our design by starting off with a 14 day on bonding.
So that was one of the things we talked about in the first space.
If anyone wants to go back in time and find it is how we could bring down our bonding times.
Our, you know, within a proof of stake network.
So we started off with 14 days and we actually have a plan to go down to seven. I know I'm skipping ahead here. I'm skipping the intro. Kind of,
kind of excited to like rehash like the previous time we met. So yeah. So thank you for having me
and I'll see like for the, for the way that you represent the ecosystem with class, with like true
integrity and leadership. I love what you guys are doing for the space. You guys are building like
absolutely the right way, you know, and it's one of the things that energizes me and makes me feel excited about
the space. It's why I do go out there and just bullpost like crazy about Cosmos because what
Babylon is doing to bring worlds together is so, so big. It's laying down the foundation for
the next big wave of people coming in and bringing real like, you know, like utility and value space.
So a lot to talk about there. So I'm excited. I'm excited to get going.
I love the excitement. No, we're really excited as well. Like I like whenever we're like you said, when we talked last, we really were focusing on our first protocol, which was timestamping.
we talked last, we really were focusing on our first protocol, which was timestamping.
Just to kind of like, again, go over what we talked about. By the way, I just shared that
conversation that we had underneath the live stream. So if people want to go back in time
and look at that, like I have a little setup in Notion where I have all the links saved and
everything. So yeah, people can go back and listen to that one. Yeah. So when I first heard of
Babylon, it was actually about three years ago at Columbia. And it was all about the timestamping. Dr. Shea was talking about, you know, unbonding, which you just mentioned right now, which would be a lot faster using Babylon because we're timestamping onto Bitcoin.
of unbonding some you know bad news comes out some flood comes out and i'm like okay i need to get
out and it's like wait 30 days that made it really hard so whenever i heard david talk about
um just how quick thumb bonding times could be i was like oh this feels more like these
are my tokens you know actually so um that was like the first thing that really like drew my
attention to babylon so um i know that you guys are part of that testnet actually, right? Yes, we are. And again, it's one of the reasons why we were able to start with a low unbonding
time. So we'll keep iterating on this too, to see how realistically low we can go, because it sounds
like you can go down even a couple of days if you wanted to. For us, maybe our plan is to go to seven
days and then from there evaluate it. We also have the additional benefit since we're a partial set security chain.
We can go into that design for those who aren't familiar.
We have a little bit of, I would call it an advantage in that our validators, our actual network security comes from the Cosmos hub, but then our governance is done through our governors.
So we actually have an ability to kind of like bifurcate the two, which is really nice. I actually kind of like that. So we can explore various unbonding times
with that in mind. So it might be a little like unique with our situation since we're one of the
few chains that do use partial set security. And I know that the original version was ICS,
interchange security, which is now being sunset. So yeah, a lot to look forward to there for sure. Yeah, you're definitely jumping ahead to some of my talking points. So we'll get
there for sure, because that was definitely one of the reasons where I reached out to you.
You know, I was like, oh, man, like, you know, when I saw it was being Sunset, it made me
worry about some of my peeps here. So just, you know, reaching out. But yeah, we'll definitely
get there. Sorry, you know, there's no script, by the way, for anybody who's wondering, I don't have an agenda,
I don't have a script.
Yeah, we're just reflowing right here.
Good deal.
I do think also one of the things that you guys do that's really exciting is because
of the time-standing, because of the ability to bring down on bonding times for within
the Cosmos world uh you
have different optionality right because when you think of like how other teams were trying to tackle
this before babylon basically they tried to go the liquid staking token route and so now what you're
doing is presenting optionality giving users more freedom to essentially decide how they want to
you know be involved so having chain, being able to bring
their unbonding times down, and you have liquid staking gives you so many different ways that you
can construct a portfolio, so many different ways that you can interact with DeFi, so many different
ways that you can actually just be a participant. And I love that. That's like, that's like one of
the things I love to see. You're building out a broader economy, giving people choice. And what's
good for one person, like liquid staking might be like an advanced function right now for certain people who may not really fully
want to get involved with that so maybe they just put that off to the side till they're ready but
then they can go and leverage the benefits of babylon by being able to just simply stake and
unstake and just you know very very simple right very like user friendly and i think that's a really
like great gift that
you guys are bringing to the ecosystem. Yeah, it's definitely like whenever we started talking
about that and turning out, I was like, wait, what? What are we going to do to Bitcoin? It's
like, I didn't know you could even, you know, combine these two worlds, proof of work,
proof of stake. And yeah, really, it was like a game changer. It was amazing what Fisher and
David kind of, you know, thought up of.
And yeah, it's crazy that it's even possible, right? Like who would have thought sticking on
chain is possible. It really is incredible. And I love, honestly, like that people always come
back to Bitcoin as the, you know, the source of truth or, you know, the greatest, you know,
representation of economic security out there in the crypto space, right?
It'll always be king, you know,
and it's not the tech, right?
I mean, it is the tech from like the very baseline level,
but what it really is, is the actual sweat and tears
and human capital that went into building
the Bitcoin network over the past,
you know, 16, 17, 18 years, whatever it is at this point.
That is really why, you know, there is no replacement for the type of security you get with Babylon, the finality, or I'm sorry, with Babylon through Bitcoin, right?
Is the fact that you guys are able to leverage that Bitcoin finality, that trusted ledger, the ability to essentially, you know, it's immutable, it is the absolute source
of truth. And you guys are now bringing that to the cosmos ecosystem so that we can take advantage
of that, right? And that's really, really important for not just existing projects today that are
looking for ways to capture that, but also founders who are literally, you know, with a vision,
trying to figure out how they're going to build in the space, they can kind of hit the ground running with Babylon integration and unlock way more, way more in terms of
what they can do for a user.
So this is super exciting for me.
This has been a long time coming up.
I've been wanting to talk about this for a long time.
Bitcoin is one of those things where sometimes it gets all the attention, right?
Because it's the one that's running when nothing else is running. Yeah, especially lately. And sometimes it gets forgotten the attention, right? Because it's, you know, it's the one that's running
when nothing else is running.
Yeah, especially lately.
And sometimes it gets forgotten.
Yeah, exactly.
And then alt season will come around,
everybody forget about Bitcoin.
But that's the beauty.
It's always there.
It's always there in the background.
It's always doing its thing.
It's simple.
It is, it doesn't need to be flashy.
It doesn't need to be fast.
It doesn't need to be anything other than what it is.
A source of truth, a source of trust,
and what you guys are doing to essentially bring Bitcoin staking,
a real true DeFi functionality to it
so that users who are just sitting there
letting it kind of sit in their portfolio off to the side,
it's parked there, it's safe, they're not trading it,
they're not trying to get too cute with it,
but they do want to get a benefit from it, right? They do want to earn with it but they do want to they do want to get
a benefit from it right they do want to yield they do want to figure out how to unlock more
potential from it and with that bitcoin staking functionality now you have the ability for people
to really kind of juice their portfolio uh but not maybe take on the huge amount of risk that
like a leverage trader would take or that's somebody who is who's maybe swing trading or
day trading uh you know because
most of your bitcoin holders are kind of in it for life right and so that's that's really um
exciting in what it can do for wealth building uh you know for financial planning to be able to say
i can earn a steady yield off of my bitcoin by staking it uh you know and it adds to the economy
or adds to productivity within the industry by other people being able to leverage off of that.
That is really something special in terms of the growth potential.
And I agree with you.
I think throughout time, you always try to make your money work for you.
And up to this point, Bitcoin really couldn't do anything besides hold that value.
So it's really exciting to finally start adding that utility to it.
And like you said, it doesn't need to be flashy.
It's not the most fast chain, but it just works.
It's the most secure chain, and it has that value.
So definitely, I think we're going to be seeing lots of things being built on it now.
It's going to be pretty crazy, I think.
Absolutely.
So I know one of the things that we're excited about too is we want to bring Bitcoin, of course, onto LS Network.
And IBC Eureka is a really great way for us to do that. One of the things that we're excited about too is we want to bring Bitcoin, of course, onto LS Network.
And, you know, IBC Eureka is a really great way for us to do that.
I'm so excited.
I would say like from a sentiment perspective, this might be the biggest, I think, milestone in terms of shifting sentiment within, not just inside of like the Cosmos ecosystem, the existing users and the existing supporters and community, but also from people from the outside looking in, right? Because I think, you know, we had talked about this on other spaces and I'm sure you guys probably touched
on it too in yours, that the sentiment in Cosmos has been down for so long, right? There's so much,
you know, I guess fatigue and some of it is maybe just frustration over the last three years,
just trying to figure out, okay, we have this amazing tech sack we have this amazing you know
functionality with ivc we have all of these things going for us native usdc brought by noble uh you
know babylon bringing bitcoin staking so what is it going to take it's almost like you're poking
the stick to it and you're like do something like yeah yeah and so so people had kind of been baffled
by this it's like why do we have all this great technology but and the users are coming but like
we're not getting that real like big inflow we're not getting you know that catalyst that's moving
us and a lot of it was sentiment right and in my opinion i think some of it was self-inflicted so
like we as a community weren't doing ourselves any favors by essentially public infighting.
You know, like we would air all of our grievances on Twitter.
Every single one.
And it's okay to do that, right?
It's not that there's anything wrong with, you know,
going out there and expressing opinions.
But how do we move from that, right?
Yeah.
But there are like, we matured through the process, right?
Like we figured out, okay,
maybe I don't have to
like get super negative about something i disagreed with maybe i can actually contact the team maybe i
can build you know consensus through like a community that i'm a participant of and try to
change things and try to like you know make things actually better or or see the vision that i would
like to see within a community and then we do this through governance right and so that's one of the
things i've actually really enjoyed seeing within the Cosmos ecosystem
is a lot of that fighting has been replaced with collaboration.
And it's huge, huge, right?
Some of this is top down, some of it's bottom up, right?
Like we always believe that Cosmos should be a bottom up community.
And that's why they decentralize very, very quickly.
In that decentralization, in that, you know, allowing that to happen very quickly,
that's
where we run into the growing pains.
And we run into some of these, like, you know, issues that need to be fine-tuned and worked
out.
So my hat's off to all of the people who were there from the very beginning, the OGs who
made this happen.
Yes, it was messy.
Yes, you know, there were some things that, like, maybe we didn't want to see in public,
but it doesn't matter, right?
Like, those things are in the past now. And that sentiment shift now is really, really amazing. That's the big catalyst that I
really think is going to take this ecosystem and propel it forward. And you guys at Babylon,
that is so big because you guys are probably going to be one of the biggest names, if not the biggest
name that is kind of side by side with Cosmos, you know, making that happen and attracting the Bitcoin OGs, the Bitcoin users, the Ethereum users, anybody else who wants to come in and basically say, hey, I can stick Bitcoin here.
This is really exciting.
So those those kind of they work together, right?
You get the sentiment, the tech, you know, the growth, the marketing.
And then we have the right leadership in place finally, right? That's, I mean, not to say that the leadership we had before didn't,
didn't do an amazing job, which I'm very, very thankful to them. I would just say this leadership
instills confidence a little bit more than, you know, Pat, just, I think it needed a change,
you know, sometimes change is just needed. So I do think that it did bring just a breath of fresh
air and hope for many
people. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And again, I'm super thankful for the previous groups that
came in and started everything because they did an amazing job and they worked with a much smaller
set of tools, right? They had to create the tools, so to speak. That's true. So the team that's
picking it up now and moving with it is, you know, I think feels the same way. I think it's like very thankful for the work that they put in because it allows them to
then take it to the next level.
So it's really great.
And I think having turnover is good.
So you're going to have probably team turnovers every however many years.
And that's really great.
You know, you get fresh perspectives, you get different talent.
So along the way, we'll continue to get better and better.
And then as the sentiment continues to stay more and more positive, and you start to see
the I love Cosmos.
I saw the I love Cosmos.
Yeah, it's going viral right now.
Yeah.
And that manifests on itself.
It builds, it builds, and builds.
And then you start to see people going, okay, I want to get involved.
I want to see if I can play around with some of the apps, play around with some of the services or products that I can touch within the ecosystem.
And do I like them?
Right.
And so we need to continue to make that user experience like really, really polished.
We need to make it super easy to access.
That's one of the problems we continue to tackle at LS Network, right, is we make it really easy for somebody who's like, okay, I just want to go explore the space.
Like, what do I do?
Yeah.
We'll say, okay, well, if you don't have a wallet already, I understand that's a pain point for people still.
That's fine.
We're working on those things.
You can just use a social login, right, to get on LS Network.
You can just connect with, like, a Google account, your X account, and then you log in, and then there's a wallet created for you.
So that's done through our partners at Web3 Auth.
Really, really fantastic team over there.
And then you can start playing around.
So we integrate with skip.go.
You can then bring in your assets.
So you can essentially just one click in
your Bitcoin, Ethereum, USDC, Atom,
or whatever it is that you have.
So all of those things are going to continue
to get better and better from the user experience side.
And then so IBC Eureka just unlocks that for every chain.
Every chain is going to be accessible through Cosmos.
You're going to be able to build your app,
and your app is just going to look like a centralized exchange app
where you just go in and you can touch every single chain,
every single token, and you won't even care what's behind that app.
You don't care what networks are powering it or who's writing the code or whatever you just care that it works securely it works
safely it's fast uh and that's that's the most important thing for a user right is that they
they want to have trust in that product so very very like excited to see all these pieces come
together no i definitely agree with you like as an end user. I think for someone who's been in the space for a long time, you're like, oh, one click
sign in is a little weird.
But for a user, that's ease of use.
I like going to a new website and I can just click on my Google account to just log in
and I have to do all that signing up and stuff.
And then just being able to not even think about what's going on in the background, but
to be able to just get my things fast and and loaded you know so that definitely you want that ease of use
the speed so i definitely think that those are things that are going to help bring more users
you know grow that user base and just let people actually partake and use your your network a lot
more freely like if it's easier to use like like why not use it? Right. Absolutely. Yeah. And I can understand the debate too, in terms of the OGs or the people
who are very, very technically inclined, you know, are more of the mindset of, well, no,
I want, I want it to be this way. I have to remember these phrases.
And they have a very good reason for, for wanting it that particular way. And I don't
have any objection to that i think
that's actually a very sound way to do things but if you're talking about how to actually get the
mass adoption uh side of things you know going get that ball rolling you do have to have some sort of
other way for them to to participate and i think the future is going to have a hybrid kind of look
right you'll have the ability to do both.
So that's kind of the mindset we've taken at LS Network, where you can log in with a
social, but then at some point, you know, you probably end up with a lot of funds on
there and you're like, well, okay, Web3 auth.
It's time.
Yeah.
I'm going to go ahead and purchase a Ledger cold wallet, or I'm going to go ahead and,
you know, just create my own Kepler or Leap wallet, you know uh and then securely store the seed phrase now that i understand what's
happening in the space so it's more of like a graduated process where you start small and then
you kind of work your way up to more advanced functions if you want to and the important part
there is along the way uh you are kind of learning lessons in like cybersecurity. So for us, we don't want the first person's,
you know, the first look in the crypto space to be,
oh, I got scammed, right?
I went in, I created a MetaMask
and I just lost everything.
And that's unfortunately what happens
to so many people when they get into space.
Hey, it happened to me when I was brand new user,
I connected to a site.
Thankfully, I only had like 20 or $30 on there. It was a small amount,
right? Uh, because I knew, I knew I was like, okay, I'm going to screw something up. So I was
playing around with a test wallet. And of course I did. Of course I screwed something up. So, uh,
it is a weird feeling watching your funds get drained out of a wallet. Right. And so we,
we wanted to make sure that we could skip that step entirely. Right. You do not have to learn
those lessons yourself in terms of like suffering through a loss. What you should be able to do is at least we as a
community be able to take the lessons in the past from all the people who have suffered, right? And
make it better for the next people coming in so that we can avoid making those same mistakes over
and over again, right? That's such a big barrier to mass adoption. So we think we're on the right track
there. Security is still such a big, big, big issue. And I think that's one of the reasons I
think Babylon is going to be extremely successful in the space in terms of bringing Bitcoin security
to Cosmos. It all kind of plays on the system. To Cosmos and beyond. Absolutely, and beyond. That's right. Yeah. So you guys are bringing it, essentially,
it'll be available to any chain. I mean, I know I'm Cosmos focused, but yeah. So for you guys,
is it just, are you guys opening it up to essentially any chain that wants to join,
regardless of what tech stack they use?
So obviously, those are going to be works in progress, but that's the vision. It's going
to be beyond Cosmos. It's going to be any proven stake chain, roll-ups, dApps.
You'd be able to secure your thing with Bitcoin.
So yeah, it's a big vision the team has.
And right now I know it's definitely Cosmos focused.
You know, this is what we're built on.
So it's super easy.
IBC makes the world so much easier.
But yeah, the vision is to be able to provide that Bitcoin security
to more than just Cosmos chains and roll-ups and dApps so pretty exciting love it the future is multi-chain and it's
kind of cool to um to you know when cosmos kind of coined the term internet of blockchains you know
when they first started yeah you know people kind of i don't know maybe they thought it was cheesy
maybe i roll yeah yeah i roll exactly uh but here we are right we're having like a real internet of blockchains and it's kind of funny when it actually happens people kind of take it
for granted they go oh well yeah okay it makes sense we need to connect everything it's like okay
well imagine how hard of a how hard that was to present to people like seven years ago right
so i know like well this is what we want to do people like what you're crazy this is nuts like
what do you mean you're gonna have a bunch of blockchains everywhere and they're all gonna
talk to each other how's that gonna work right so's, we take it for granted now. But again, we owe this to the OGs back then who were who had this vision, who had the idea to essentially, you know, work on this. And you look at the laggards now who are like, just now putting it together and saying, Oh, we should have probably started working on this several years ago, Like Ethereum, right? I mean, I think Ethereum,
where they probably maybe put their eggs into a basket,
I don't want to say all their eggs,
this is Layer 2s, right?
They kind of thought, okay, Layer 2s are our scaling solution.
We'll just fork the code and just create a million of these things and off-ramp everything onto these Layer 2s
and then we'll have, you know, a better settlement,
faster times, whatever, lower gas fees, all the different things. I know i'm oversimplifying that and i don't mean to upset the ethereum crowd
because i think i'm gonna get hate mail but but like but honestly like where where i think they're
doing the right thing right now is realizing that it's time to to go like multi-chain right it's
time to actually like connect with everybody and I think that's an important mindset shift from their community.
Yeah. And it aligns with ours.
And that's that's really the important part is we're all actually building in a collaborative mindset now versus the competition mindset where it's no it's a winner take all.
It's my chain is going to win over your chain.
So I actually want to see you suffer.
I don't want to connect to you.
I think that. Yeah.
It was it was very painful.
It was a very painful period within our industry. That's starting to go away. And I think even
people who are deploying funds, like VCs and any angel investors, they don't want to see that
either because they don't want to see this like, oh, okay, it's a very binary bet. I'm either going
to win on this investment
or I'm going to lose everything.
They would much rather see it as,
okay, well, we can all grow together.
And if this investment outperforms that one,
I'm still okay.
That kind of more from their perspective
actually makes more sense too.
So like if you're a venture capital fund,
you like the collaborative mindset
versus the winner take all.
And then the tech is pretty much there,
right? Like we have the ability to, to turn this on, but it's going to be a process, right? It's
going to take time to actually, um, make it all happen, put it together. Uh, that's where I think
IBC Eureka is. I think they're probably looking to launch within the next few weeks, which is
pretty exciting. I think stuff is starting to happen on test the fast yeah yeah so we are i saw the first dvm transaction shared by magmar uh yeah that's pretty cool
the testnet yeah that's really cool uh hello world i love it that's that's what one of the um one of
the things i really love about that team is they build fast uh you know i i will say you know
entertain labs um you know mag and barry uh, the things that they have done for this ecosystem,
you know, I can't give them enough credit for the work they put in and how fast they ship.
So skip.go, if for anybody who has not used it yet, skip.go, you can go to their website,
build.skip.go, skip.go.build.
I'll pull it up right now just to go.
Yeah, sorry.
No script in front of me, I'm sorry.
So when you go to that site, the great thing about that is... Yeah, sorry. No script in front of me. I'm sorry.
So when you go to that site, the great thing about that is... Go.skip.build.
Yeah, go.skip.build.
There you go.
Go.skip.build.
It was some combination of those three words.
Yeah.
I actually use that for almost all of my swaps, which is great.
Like, you know, when I'm not swapping on Ellis, when I need to go get an asset that's not on Ellis.
And the reason I do that is a huge time saver for me. So I can go on there,
I can connect my wallet and then I want to trade USDC for Ethereum. I want to trade USDC for,
you know, any asset that I can't get on Ellis and it'll go and route it. It'll give me two options.
I can either go find the fastest option or the cheapest option. So the cheapest option,
I'll have a little bit of a delay. It might take a couple of minutes, might take 15 minutes at the most. I've never
seen it take that long. Let's say two to three minutes. And then your fast option is like 30
seconds or 10 seconds, depending on where it's getting it from. But the cool thing is you can
actually see where it's getting routed from. So whether it's going through osmosis, whether it's
going through, you know, neutron or whatever, whatever chain it's going through, it's doing
the work for you. It's going out and connecting to whatever chain it's going through, it's doing the work for you.
It's going out and connecting to whatever chain it needs to to go get this work done for you.
Make the swap, make the exchange for you, and then put it in the wallet that you want it to go to.
It's amazing, all in one click or two clicks, right?
So this is where I think Skip was way ahead of the game, and they actually talked the talk,
or they actually walked the walk, right? In terms of, okay, connecting
blockchains, making it seamless, making it really easy for a user to interact with many chains at
the same time. So that is a first proof of concept. Like that's really incredible. And it's a simple
product to use. It's incredibly easy to use. There is no research required. You do not have to read
documentation to figure out how to use SkipGo. So so anyway so the reason i bring that up is they bring that same mindset to ibc eureka right they're gonna
they're essentially gonna make it the same way in terms of making it so simple for the user to
interact with that it's not going to be this big cosmic thing i got to read through a million docs
i got to run it through chat gpt and figure out how to do all this stuff i know you're just gonna
be able to get on and connect and then if you want to go deeper and deeper and start doing more
advanced functions you certainly can but again we are trying to give
people an entry point we're trying to make it easy for somebody to just get familiarized and then be
able to become an advanced user there was too much of an expectation in the past that somebody should
just come in and just become an advanced user and that that is just completely unrealistic. It's never happened. It's not how Apple became Apple. It's not how any of these products out there that have millions of
users have been able to capture those users. So I love that we're focused on user acquisition,
user retention, and an actual utility. So those are the things that I'm really excited to see actually grow the space.
And with that said, you know, you guys are launching soon.
And I would love to hear more about like, if you're able to share,
I don't know if you have like general timelines, general timeframes,
but I'd love to hear like some of your guys' roadmap items,
especially like what you plan to do right at launch,
which chains you'll be kind of integrated with directly for your Bitcoin staking products and you know any of the other features you might
have available for users as well. Well yeah obviously you know it's happening pretty soon.
We'll launch Babylon Genesis chain and it's only going to be that chain because we already proved
the proof of concept that you can actually time lock your Bitcoin in our first, you know, we're doing a slow rollout for mainnet.
Phase one was just showing that you can actually stake your Bitcoin.
So for phase two, we're just going to have only Babylon show that you can secure something with that Bitcoin.
And so we'll have probably LSTs, obviously, you know, the LSTs that are working with us in Cap 1 and Cap 2 and Cap 3 with us.
But yeah, we'll definitely be looking to quickly, maybe only in a few more months, actually open it up to all the chains that want to be BSN chains.
I know if you've been following Babylon, you're seeing what BSN networks are.
And yeah, we definitely have like a lineup coming out. I can't share right now who those are,
but it's really exciting just to see
who those are going to be right now,
here in behind the scenes for me.
Yeah, that's incredible.
It's going to be pretty cool just to see
who's willing to use that Bitcoin security.
So really excited to just show what Bitcoin security
can do for Babel on chain,
and then how others will be able to use it
when phase three opens up.
Absolutely. And based on saying how many users are going to be participating, I think your testnet numbers are through the roof, right? I mean, I don't know if you have them handy right
in front of you or not, but you've had an incredible amount of participants actually come in
and stake their Bitcoin before there was even any yield from it, right?
Like they were essentially staking and then maybe guaranteeing themselves some sort of
airdrop or other incentive.
But the fact that you guys were able to already kind of like just absolutely crush it in terms
of getting people to participate in the testnet is really encouraging.
I don't know if you have those numbers in front of you or not.
So I know a lot of them by memory, so I'll go off of that. So just based off of memory,
August 22nd is when we opened up CapOne. It was only going to be opened up for
the first 1000 Bitcoin. In like a little bit over an hour and a half, it got filled up and then we
saw the fees go crazy. It was really cool just seeing it happen. I'm sure as a user that you
were trying to stick, you were not very happy at that time. And so we were just like, oh man, like this is actually
something, like you said, there's no rewards. It's just to actually stake your Bitcoin.
And so it was just cool to see that people have been wanting to do something with their Bitcoin.
And so, yeah, so that was for Cap 1. Were you going to say something? I'll keep going to the
next cash. I was going to say that that's that the fact that you opened it up and everybody was rushing trying to get through the door.
That is a really great sign. So I anticipate it will probably be the same way for Midnet.
That's what we hope. And so I believe it was October 10th that we had Cap 2 opened up.
And so we were like, OK, during our testnet we had done two like amount
base caps and so we're like maybe that's not going to be the right approach. Cap one got filled so
quickly. Let's leave it open for 10 blocks even though a thousand bitcoin filled up cap one in
six blocks we're going to open it up a little bit even it's only four extra blocks. Whenever I heard
that I'm like it's only four extra but it was very different the fees were different and so
we had like so many
bitcoin come in and it was filled that 10 blocks was filled in in a little again over an hour and
a half and uh it was it was pretty crazy just to see again the big inflow but the biggest one was
at the end of cat 3 whenever we left it open for a week to see at the time with bitcoin's price
they have like six billion dollars worth of Bitcoin staked to Babylon
was insane. And so like to your point, I believe it was 135,000 different people staking. So that's,
you know, just shows you how many people are interested in doing so. I believe the
delegations were like about 132,000, don't remember correctly so yeah it was just crazy to
see the different people in there so um it's about 52 to 53 000 bitcoin that have been staked right
now to the babylon waiting for us to open up phase two wow you guys are bigger than some centralized
exchanges at this point but but honestly i mean this is fantastic news because if you are a
supporter of cosmos right and if you're a supporter of Cosmos, right?
And if you're somebody who's kind of been waiting for that catalyst, who's been trying to figure out, okay, where are the users coming from?
Well, a lot of it's going to come through Babylon.
If you have over 6 billion in Bitcoin stake through Babylon, and that number is going to continue to grow, especially when you guys are in mainnet, you're going to have phenomenal growth. You guys have a great team. You guys have an amazing marketing presence and amazing trust factor from your community and from
everybody who takes a look at you guys. And so if you're somebody who's trying to figure out how to
express a view on Adam itself, how could you not be bullish? How could you not be excited about
what Babylon is going to do for Adam, what Babylon is going to do for Cosmos, and what Cosmos will do for Babylon? And so that's the
type of thing when people talk about Adam alignment, this is exactly it. These are the
types of things that we look for in terms of trying to see where their synergies, trying to
see where two different projects or two or more projects can actually come together and have this effect of being able to, to grow each other. Right. And you know, that that's,
that's very,
very special because not everybody has a value proposition where they can do
these things. And so again,
for the people who are like on the sidelines trying to figure out what to do
with their Adam or trying to figure out if they should get involved in Adam,
I would say, Hey, you just got some huge alpha here from Babylon, right?
You have 6 million in Bitcoin stake And that's going to be all essentially being brought over to the cosmos ecosystem, so to speak, in terms of like opportunities for DeFi. Yeah, I mean, you can't sleep on that. You can't sleep on that, right? It's not now. Now, I will say this. I mean, everybody expects everything to be a ribbon cutting ceremony. Everything, everybody expects everything to be like this. Okay, well, it happened today. So today's the big day where everything like, you know, gets fixed. And as we all know, it's,
it's never that way, right? It's you open the door, and then you create the pathways,
you create the foundation, you create all the different things that need to go into
a successful product that has no friction or less friction, and then easy access, easy
usability, et cetera.
And then you watch it grow over time and then you reassess and you fine tune and you make it better and you roll out more products.
Right.
So those are the, those are the, we're starting to, I would say this is like the green shoots,
right?
You're starting to see it grow and then you kind of already know where it's going to go
from there.
So you couldn't be more bullish.
I literally couldn't be more bullish.
I'm like, sometimes I feel myself like when I, when I talk about this stuff, bullish i'm like sometimes i feel myself like when i when i talk about this stuff sometimes i could feel myself
like actually lift off the ground like i'm actually like levitating because i'm like i'm
ready to take off that's awesome but but honestly i mean what you guys have done is is so is so so
impactful and i think um it it will it people will see it after the fact right they'll see it maybe
like in a year or two after you guys are like more mature,
like, you know, past your mainnet launch and rolling out new features and products
and starting to, you know, the user base will be huge
and you'll have all these different chains kind of using the Bitcoin staking,
you know, features for whatever purposes they're going to do in a DeFi sense.
Yeah.
People will be able to look back at it
and be like, oh yeah, that was so obvious.
Yeah, well, Babylon was so obvious, right?
So, but today people just,
they want the show me story first.
They want, well, show me how it works.
Show me what you guys can do.
And I would say that, you know,
since you guys already were able to do that
and test that, you know,
like you guys already have dropped the alpha.
You guys have already shown the signs.
You've shown the tech.
You've shown how you guys actually benefit other chains.
And I couldn't be more optimistic about you guys in the future.
I actually want to talk about something that you touched upon.
And this is not the fictional team stance, but I do personally believe like, this is why Babylon's had the success that it's had.
And it is because of the Cosmos.
I feel like if you're a new chain
and you come up with this idea,
it's a lot harder to get others to kind of
play along with you.
But because we were a Cosmos chain,
because it required so little to actually get others to,
you know, try our testnet,
initially the timestamping testnet,
and it allowed us to kind of like
help build a name for ourselves, show what we could and so i do feel like i don't know if it
could have happened any other way if it was outside of the cosmos you know so personal belief like
who obviously we don't know but i i do feel like it cosmos such plays such a huge part in that
no i that is that is really uh i i would say that's a really great take, you know, and being somebody
who I'm a little biased, right?
Because of course, I'm going to agree with you.
But it's a great take because so often, one of the things I continue to see as one of
the common complaints, like say from like founders or builders in the spaces, I, you
know, I entered into talks with this foundation.
I'm just going to make up a foundation.
It's probably going to be a real one.
You're going to make it up. It's like a real foundation.
Yeah, I better not.
Okay, so let's say foundation A is going,
hey, we're doing grant programs or come build on our chain.
So that's what they'll do, right?
So they'll go and recruit like all these really great founders,
you know, who with a proven track record or somebody who has a great idea.
And they'll say, okay, we'll give you a couple million dollars or marketing support or a grant or whatever it is to build on our chain, right?
Yeah.
So the team goes, great.
That's a great idea.
We'll build on your chain, you know?
So they do.
And then all of a sudden that foundation essentially goes dark on them, right?
They basically just say, okay, well,
we're moving on to the next thing, or they don't offer the actual support that they said they were going to support. And then now the team that's built whatever application or whatever function
they built for that chain is like, okay, well, we're trying to build this, but we need more
two-way interaction from you. We need more support in terms of what the community wants.
This is not just, we can't just build in a silo. We can't just build in like total darkness here. Like we have to be able to know what's going
on. And then they feel like this like frustration or regret or, or resentment of why they even did
that in the first place. And then what ends up happening, they pull their app off that chain
and go find another home for it. Right. Or they'll pull and be like, all right, we're going to start
a layer one instead or a layer two or something. And you see the story over and over, over again,
I got burned by this foundation, or I got burned by, by being by building by partnering up with
this one, you know, group or idea or chain or whatever it was. And that's, that's understandable,
right? Because there's so many things being built in the space right now. But that's the beauty of
cosmos is that you don't have to like be tied to one thing.
You can go out and partner with everybody.
You can go out there and figure out,
okay, where can we find value together?
We can go out and connect with the people that,
you know, like this is one of the things we do at Ellis
is we love literally everybody within Cosmos
because they all bring something to the table.
So Agoric with their orchestration,
you guys for Bitcoin staking and then the timestamping,
you know, Osmosis because they're like a huge partner
for like our arbitrage trading.
Let's see, Cosmos because of IBC Eureka.
And the list goes on and on.
Stargaze for our NFTs.
They even built like a custom modules,
like just for our NFTs, which is amazing.
They actually were the ones who a lot,
like we told them we have,
okay, we have two different phases of NFTs. We would like to take these nfts put them all into one you know kind
of put them together and then burn them and then mint a new nft out of it and they're like well we
don't have that yet like can you build it for us and they're like sure and they built it yeah they
built it for us in like three weeks it was amazing wow yeah i mean stargaze is amazing
yeah amazing yeah and
i've you know i've gone on record many times saying that cosmos should buy stargaze but i don't i don't
want to i i i know i've seen some talks about some stuff going on like that yeah and then and hey if
if i could buy stargaze if i could go out and like convince a bunch of investors to pull some money
together for us to buy stargaze and put them on ls i I would in a heartbeat, right? I mean, they're too good.
Their devs are too good, their team is too good.
Like there's so much talent.
Like why would you not want them, right?
They're like some of the best people in the space
in terms of building.
So, you know, hey, maybe Batman.
I'm not gonna say Batman's goodbye.
No, no, no, no, I'm not gonna start.
I'm not gonna spread rumors.
So I like to have some fun with that sometimes
but this but this is the beauty of it right is is within cosmos you have the the freedom the
autonomy to be able to go and connect connect with anybody you want build the partnerships you need
and then be able to actually like uh execute on your product market fit to be able to actually
some of the things you don't have to build yourself some of the things you can go out
there and get from your friends your partners and some of the things you don't have to build yourself, some of the things you can go out there and get from your friends, your partners,
and some of the things you can build yourself,
you can offer to your partners,
which is really cool, right?
And I think that that's really one of the things
that maybe I think Mag and Barry
have been kind of foot stomping a little bit
is like, this is what alignment looks like.
And you guys have that.
You guys have that ability to do that
within Cosmos and beyond
because you guys have that, you guys have that ability to do that within Cosmos and beyond because you guys have established yourselves as a very, like, you know, as the leading platform for this.
And you guys, I think, have like the best design.
I really do.
You know, and I think I encourage people to go and take a look at, you know, Babylon's products, their documentation.
They have a white paper.
They have a really great, actually, a set of docs on CoinGecko that I was actually
looking up. They're fantastic.
You guys have
I think what you
guys have done is done a really good job of explaining
what you do and how you do it.
It's really easy when you have a professor
leading the way.
Yeah, it's fantastic.
With that, you're absolutely right.
That's why I agree with you that you have the ability to really thrive
within the Cosmos ecosystem and not be stuck on, oh, we had to select a single partner
that didn't work out.
And now we have to restart from scratch.
We got to start over.
We lost two years of development, this and that.
So yeah, that's a really great point.
So for any other founders who are out there thinking about where you're going to build
next, I mean, it sounds like the best place to build, my personal opinion.
No bias.
Yeah.
So I wanted to ask, you know, like, obviously I reached out to you earlier this week because
of ICS, so I wanted to get your take from that.
And you kept telling me, like, you feel actually good about it.
So definitely want to get your take here on air.
No, thanks, Eric. That's a great question. Definitely want to get your take here on air.
Thanks, Eric.
That's a great question.
The reason it was, you know, it's obviously like making headlines right now is because of what happened with Neutron, you know,
deciding to go back to being a sovereign chain, becoming a sovereign chain.
And I think it's important to put in context what it was like when ICS was first implemented.
I think it's important to put in context what it was like when ICS was first implemented.
So it was not necessarily something that was really put the validators at ease from the very beginning,
because every Cosmos validator had to be a participant.
It was kind of like a forced interaction.
If you were an active validator for Cosmos, you had to be a validator for Neutron and Stride.
And so this may be if I'm a validator, maybe I don't want to validate, right? Maybe I'm number 179 on the list of active validators and validating for Neutron or Stride as a validator,
my commissions are going to be like 10 cents or something. I'm not going to make any money off
of this. I don't have, there is no economic value for me to be a validator over on that chain. And why does Stride and Neutron need 180 validators if they, you know, if they're just
starting out or if, you know, they don't need that, that many billions of dollars of economic
security doesn't make sense. So from the very beginning, there was, there was a, a, a fairly
like reasonable, like pushback to it, which was this doesn't,
this does not allow the flexibility
that should be allowed within Cosmos, right?
The idea of internet of blockchains
is to give you custom solutions,
to give you the ability to right-size your chain,
to give you the ability to right-size your governance,
to be able to customize your modules,
to be able to do anything you need to do,
you know, within a reasonable landscape without being forced into one type of technical decision.
So that's where ICS was initially flawed.
The idea was really actually quite good, right?
The idea of in terms of being able to separate out your governance from your network security was actually kind of cool, right? There is some
benefit to having specialization because your validators are not always governance experts,
but you can have governance experts who are not very technical. So this is actually really good.
So now your governors don't have to be super technical. Your governors can be more community
participants and actually go out and serve the community in better ways, having their ear to the ground
and being able to actually represent their communities
in terms of how they vote
versus the validators can then focus
on strictly on the economic security,
the actual operation of the blockchain
and making sure that from a technical perspective,
everything's running flawlessly.
So I actually like that. I'm a fan of that now you'll talk to some validators who'll disagree with me and some will say well i like to be both i like to i like to do the blockchain
and that's fine yeah and you can that's the beauty of it you can do that so if you're a validator
you can you can do both you can become you can be validator and a governor so there's nothing
that precludes you from doing both you just just run them separately. But the great thing about why I think we've really matured along
the way and actually decided that ICS was not the right fit is because it forced people into
a solution that didn't fit for them, for their chain. But partial set security is going to remain.
So what that means is you still get all of the benefit of ICS, all of it,
because you can theoretically have your partial set security chain
be every single active Cosmos validator.
So it'll look exactly like ICS version 1.
If you wanted to, if you wanted to, right?
You could say our maximum active validator set is 180
or whatever the number is today.
I'm embarrassed that I don't have that in front of me.
Oh, I'm going to look it up right now. So I believe it was 180. Is it 180? Okay.
It's no, it's 200 actually. 200 now? Okay, 200. Man, I'm way behind. So the great thing about
that is you can still do that if you want to. If you're a chain that's starting out and you say,
I want to have 200 active validators.
Great.
You'll look exactly like ICS version one.
So just quickly, I was wrong.
It's 200 bonded, but 180 active.
So you were initially right.
Oh, 180 active.
Okay.
Good.
Okay.
I didn't embarrass myself.
Okay, good.
All right.
I did.
No, don't worry.
But actually, I'll come back to that because there's actually a reason why we still,
those offline or those inactive validators actually have benefit.
So with that said, if you're a partial set security chain like us, we have up to 40 active validators.
We can grow it, right?
As we start to build our TVL and require more economic security, we can grow it to 50, 60, 70, 80.
And if we get huge, we can go all 180 if we wanted to, if everybody was really interested in that.
So that's the beauty of partial set security
is you get all of the benefit of ICS version 1
with none of the forced participation.
So that's a super long answer to like,
I could have just said that in the beginning,
but the reason-
No, I think it's perfect.
I think it shows why it's needed, you know,
like, and why as a validator,
it was kind of unfair a little bit to be forced to do, you know, change that maybe you didn't want to do. Yeah, so it's a big relief for
them. It really is. And I love that, like, essentially, now that it's voluntary, partial
set security, you get the people who want to be a participant, you get the people who want to
actually like serve that chain. And it's you get a different, like, I guess, motivation factor,
you get a different level of interest, because maybe the validator themselves is actually interested in your project and wants to be a part of it. But
they're not so interested in another one. It's like, again, it's not a fit for them. It's not
something we do. It's not our niche, whatever. And so maybe, maybe they'll just they'll opt out
of it, even if they think it's a cool, it's a cool project, but it's just not for them. So again,
a lot of flexibility and flexibility is the advantage that Cosmos has is like that. That's
the one thing we keep going back to
over and over and over again.
Where else can you build a layer one
or you can even build yourself a layer two
if you wanted to, it'd still be a layer one.
IBC, applications,
all the things that you can do, right?
You can have any level of control,
whether at the protocol level
or at the application level
with the type of customization that you can do within Cosmos. And then be able to, like,
if you're running your own chain, you can set whatever block time you want. I mean, like,
you know, six seconds, two seconds, and, you know, injectives down to like a half a second or less,
and Neutron wants to go down to like 0.1 seconds. I mean, it's amazing. So all these different
things that are happening, you know, that customization,
we should continue on that path of customization.
And I think Barry and Mag just saw that and said,
okay, yeah, let's absolutely do that.
We'll just continue on the path of customization.
So ICS-1 has to go just because it's not a custom solution.
And then PSS, partial set security stays,
which still gives you all the options of ICS-1.
And then we move on.
So I think if people felt it to be contentious, it's probably because they were worried about what was going to happen
to certain tokens sitting in certain places, community pools, things like that.
They were not worried about the technical side of things.
They were more worried about the economic, you know, the-
Repercussion or something?
The divorce settlement.
Let's put it that way.
They're trying to figure out who's getting what.
And I think that that's hilarious.
So, you know, but it'll work out.
You know, that's what the government's side is for,
is that they'll be able to make sure that everything goes in the correct place.
And we build from there.
And the best part about this whole thing is that Neutron and Cosmos Hub
are still very much aligned and still very much partners and friends. And so there is no like negative fallout. So anybody, I would encourage like
anybody who's reading some negativity about it, do like participate, right? Push back on it and say,
no, well, I don't actually don't think that's true, right? I think what you're seeing is an
unlocking of the potential of both of these chains to actually be able to have a better alignment
and better partnership together without the forced participation of validators.
And they'll still be able to do the same thing for their users, if not do even more things.
So those are the types of things I think the community is probably going to be seeing over
the next few weeks and months in terms of how this shakes out, like when it's all said
and done.
So when is it going to fully, like, ICS will be completely gone?
Has it already happened?
Or when does PSS start?
Yeah, I guess Stride is next.
We've got to figure out what's going on with Stride.
Okay.
I've got to talk to Robo.
Maybe we'll have, we should actually do a call on Robo.
We can add him here.
Send him the link.
We'll add him right now.
I'll check in with him.
I'll check in with him and ask him how things are going at Stride.
Stride is a community favorite.
It's an ecosystem favorite.
They're a great team.
I think from the liquid staking side of things,
I mean, them and Persistence, I think, was first,
and Persistence is a great team.
Stride does amazing work,
and I think you had talked to Milky Way a couple days ago. Yeah, they do amazing work,
right. So you have a lot of really great teams building in
this space, I think stride probably, if they decide to go
to partial set security or sovereign, I don't know what
they're gonna do. We'll see, I'll ask them, I can't speak for
them. But but once once this is all this transition occurs, it's
it's a little bit tech heavy, right? There are some work to kind of like do the coding required to un-connect yourself,
so to speak, from ICS. We had to put a lot of work in to go from Sovereign to PSS when we were
doing our testnet to mainnet. That actually took us a couple of months, maybe actually three,
four months. We had a lot of great help from like Crypto Crew validators, informal systems, the Entertain Foundation, Entertain Labs.
So it's a lot of work required.
But once that's out of the way, like, you know, you can still do your thing.
So there shouldn't be too much in terms of like the product side that would change if they end up like not using PSS and just going to a full sovereign design.
That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, I was wondering about, you know, because I definitely saw that ICS is going away, but obviously it always takes some time.
It can't just, you know, happen overnight. So interesting to see that we're waiting on Robo.
Well, yeah, I'll ask him. Like I said, he's in the know. He's he's their guy and i'll um i always i always love just
being all with him too it's been a while since i've actually done a bit of space with him but
he's uh he's great to talk to and he's he's got great energy yeah he's fun and i i love that i
love that for the space i think people who who bring energy to the space uh it's um it's very
contagious right like if you if you come and you bring energy,
other people around you will become energized and then they'll energize people around them.
But similarly, if you come in
and you are perma bear, negative all the time,
you think the sky is falling every day
and you think the latest chain haul
or the latest thing that happened to whatever project
or chain is gonna destroy all crypto
or something like that.
And you keep parodying those things and saying them every day. Yeah, you're going to you're going to impact the people around you in a very negative way. And then
they'll impact the people around them in a negative way. So that's, you'll keep attracting
those people to like, they're just like, Yeah, I want to come, you know, rag on stuff with you.
So it's just like attracting the wrong kind of people to.
Exactly. And if you're familiar with how these algorithms work on X and other social media platforms, yeah, it'll just give you more of
that. If you keep putting on those things, it's going to give you more. So you'll just spiral
yourself into whatever direction you want based on the things that you are gravitating to. And so
it's really important for us as a community to continue to show up with positivity and energy.
Yeah, we're going to stumble along the way. We're going to have hiccups.
We're going to have some technical glitches
and things like that.
But that's a moment in time, right?
That's not the long-term trend, right?
The long-term trend is the industry is growing.
There will be users coming.
There's more money coming into, you know,
via stable coins, right?
Which is the big, big proliferation of stable coins
in 2025 is really the, again,
such a foundational aspect of like how DeFi is going to really the, again, such a foundational aspect of
like how DeFi is going to really, you know, become a major, major player in the overall
finance industry globally. So those are the types of things that need to stay on your radar and keep
you positive. And then the little hiccups along the way, okay, just, you know, we fix them, we fix
them, right? You have a problem, you hit it. You got another problem, you hit it. You have another
problem, you hit it. Right? It's like, it problem you hit it right it's like it's like home maintenance it's like car maintenance
it's like anything else you do you don't you don't hate your car because your car had a flat tire
right probably still like yeah so there's there's a there's still there's still a lot of like things
that yeah we'll continue to get better on and by no means am i saying do we bury our problems by
no means am i saying we look the other way because integrity is still has to has to be above all yeah what I am saying is we very smartly understand
the difference between taking on a problem make or solving an issue and making it better uh versus
you know like having having something attracts much of our attention and then destroying our
sentiment on the overall industry like those are those are the things I want people to, to kind of be able to put in two
separate boxes and be able to understand, like the reason why we, we show up with positivity
is not because we're trying to hide something, but because we're trying to make sure that
people understand what, what we're actually building towards in our intermediate and long
term view.
In the short term, always going to have problems, always going to have some issues to deal with.
We're, we're fledgling technology and problems, always gonna have some issues to deal with.
We're fledgling technology
and there's always gonna be things to work through,
but that's why we're here.
Otherwise we wouldn't have any developers.
We'd fire all the developers today,
we'd be like, all right, we're done.
We have all the answers already, yeah.
Yeah, so, yeah, so I mean,
and look at companies that have been around for 20, 25 years.
Like Google will have a massive glitch.
You know, Amazon will have their AWS servers go down for a day or something,
you know, or a couple hours and everything melts down.
But that didn't change the company.
It didn't change their trajectory, right?
All it does is, okay, we have a problem.
Let's fix it.
So, again, I just, I want to make sure that that's like very, like, foundational as how people think about the space,
because it's so easy to get caught up in the narrative
of what's happening today.
Somebody tweeted something today or posted something today
and tried to get you to feel bad
so that they could get 50,000 likes
so that they could get paid by X.
Yeah.
And so I actually have reached out to many KOLs.
I'm like, hey, you're kind of a negative KOL.
I get that you make your money being a bear.
But why don't you just become a bull?
Like, you know, I get that you want to drop negative news and people click on that stuff.
But don't you think you can get the same amount of clicks with positivity?
What do they tell you?
You know, I think, well, everybody's got their niche, right?
So I would say, for example, people like Coin Bureau, right? Or Moon Carl everybody's got their niche, right? So like, I would say like, for example, like people like Coin Bureau, right?
Or Moon Carl or anything, any of these people, right?
They are bulls, right?
And they'd like to talk about the things they're excited about seeing.
And they actually generally don't like talk about like the, like the day-to-day like noise
or the negativity.
But there are some influencers out there who really do only specialize in like being
very like dark breaking news like
this horrible thing happened and these people got you know uh got hacked or this horrible thing
happened here and that's kind of their specialty and they kind of view it as well i'm just reporting
the news right i'm i'm i'm being an objective news reporter and i go okay well you know that's that's
totally okay that is totally okay if they if they truly believe that they are just trying to give information out
as objectively as possible.
But at the same time, you know, it is nice
if somebody can like occasionally come in there and say,
well, yeah, I mean, we're dealing with these problems.
But if you remember, I also reported a problem to you
like two years ago that was very similar. We past that and then the industry is like two times
bigger now yeah so those those are like i like for those things to be put in context let's put it that
way no i completely agree with you and and it's something that i get tired of seeing so i try not
to click on it as well because i don't want to keep seeing the negative news and it's not like
you said it's not that i'm trying to hide from it. It's just like we can't dwell on something.
Because if we do, then it can't bring you down.
You just got to, you know, look at it, break it apart, you know, fix it, and then keep moving on.
Exactly. That is the perfect mindset right there.
I think MAG is doing a great job with that too at ICL.
You know, focusing on the positives, but acknowledging that there are the issues that we have to work through.
And that is a great credibility builder, right? Because if you never talk
about the issues you have to fix, then you lose credibility, right? And you'll lose trust.
You know, speaking to Meg, I love that he'll post something and then he gets a lot of maybe
hate sometimes, but then he's just responding and he's just like, with like kindness and
brightness and just like, I love his responses, because he doesn't shy away from anything. He's like, so truthful about what he
believes in. And I think it is making a difference because people are like, Oh, because they're so
used to being able to talk maybe bad about something. And then maybe, you know, scaring
the person into changing what they just said, or like apologizing. But he's just like, No,
this is why we believe this way. If you want to keep talking about it, like, you know, share with
us, we're open, you know, to to hear from you so i just love his approach right
now it's really refreshing very refreshing and it's a he's a born leader right you could tell
the difference between somebody who's a natural leader versus somebody who is got thrown into a
leadership position or maybe uh you know ended up making it big in whatever it is that they did in
the industry and are now in a
leadership position, having, having the ability to say whatever they want, but then completely just,
just completely just, you know, wanting to pick a fight with everybody, right? Or somebody who,
who like, you know, will come in and poke the bear or like, you know, try to bait them into a
negative conversation. They take the bait and then it all goes downhill from there yeah you're absolutely right I mean there is you can tell the difference between
the the two different types of of leaders out there uh the one who actually like leads through
like you know being setting the example and the other one who's very reactionary who will just
respond with emotion or like to try to like get flustered or have you know just really strange
like bouncing all over the place in terms of like one day they're like feeling great and the next
day they're like you know down in the gutter like those are the types of things where like you know
that manifests itself through the entire community people actually look up to those people and they
go well okay well they're not feeling good then i'm not feeling good and that's why i think that
sentiment shift within cosmos is so big having it from top down, because we've been so bottom up for so long,
so that the top down is now aligned with the bottom going up. We have really, really like,
fantastic, like things to look forward to with a really proven leadership, you know, team that
I think just isn't in this for themselves.
I mean, they already kind of established that.
They're already successful in their own way.
It's definitely not something that they need, but it's something they believe in.
You just know it.
You can tell.
100%.
And I love working with people like that.
Absolutely do.
And so I love working with you guys.
You guys have been true to your mission from the very beginning. I think you guys are very honorable, very like, you know, that you've spent a lot of time as a school teacher, helping kids. And like, you know, you had a mission to like, want to like pay forward, you know, the success
that you're, you know, you're in. And so I think those are the types of things that like, when,
when somebody kind of does their like background check on you and wants to know more about you,
you know, and they look at that and they go, wow, you know, this is, this is the type of team I want
leading me. This is the type of team I want, my community or doing the marketing or doing the business development because they are people I trust.
And they are people that I want representing the community to go out and talk to those other teams outside to help grow and create new opportunities.
So I love that.
I want to say thank you.
I know we're probably at an hour, right? Yeah, we're at an hour. Yeah, I want to say thank you again.
It's gone by so fast. Yeah, it really was. It was a lot of fun. I appreciate you hosting this.
We'd love to return to favor anytime you guys want to be on. Yeah, let's make it happen.
And yeah, when you guys are approaching Mainnet launch or maybe after Mainnet launch,
you guys are super slammed. I'd love to chat with you again and see how things are going.
Yeah, we definitely will.
So we have planned a special series after main launch.
So probably mid to late April is when the series will be coming out.
So we'll send you an invite, but definitely we want to join you in your spaces as well.
Thank you for coming on.
I really enjoyed talking to you.
I know we could have kept talking some more.
I still had some more things that I'll ask in the DMs or something. But yeah, no worries. I really enjoyed talking to you. I know we could have kept talking some more. I still had some more things that I'll ask in the DMs or something. But yeah, Matt, no worries. I really
enjoyed speaking to you today. Likewise, Eric. Thank you so much. And thank you to everybody
who tuned in. Really appreciate it. If you guys want to know more about Ellis Network,
Ellis.network. If you want to check out our app, it's app.ellis.network. We're available in lots
of different Telegram groups. we're in the adam og chat
which is one of my favorite chats to be in because it's got a ton of founders in there
and a lot of really great um information that comes out uh are you in that one by the way eric
maybe i am in so many groups yeah we'll check check over i'm in that okay we'd love to have
babylon in that chat because like mag is in there we got uh yelena from noble in there
so yeah from osmosis is in there we got a lot of great founders in there and it's open to the public right so anybody wants
to join that adam og chat you guys can get in there and talk to founders directly which is what
this is all about right the founders should be accessible to you the team should be accessible
to you you should not feel like there's a wall between uh you and them so love to have you guys
in there it'd be super fun and to that to that point you are so easy to talk to and approachable so you're definitely part of that mold so we're really
thankful to have you here in the space as well man i really love what you're doing really really
appreciate you so yeah likewise all right thanks a lot all right take care everyone and we'll see
you guys on the next one cheers bye cheers
