Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
Bitcoin Scandal . Chia and Bitcoin Discuss The Revelations #Epstein @kurtwuckertjr may attend
Recorded: Feb. 7, 2026 Duration: 2:06:39Space Recording
Short Summary
In a recent discussion, crypto enthusiasts explored the implications of the Epstein files on Bitcoin's reputation, highlighting trends of scrutiny and potential market manipulation. The conversation also touched on significant fundraising efforts aimed at boosting the crypto ecosystem, alongside the launch of a new fund focused on tokenizing investments in various cryptocurrencies.
Full Transcription
ご視聴ありがとうございました。 Thank you. Thank you. I think that's worked then.
Yep, that's good.
Let me just double check.
Test.
Test. work then yep that's good let me just double check test test hey we're live that's awesome okay this is the real start if you've made it this far welcome to the space this is going to
be an open forum a monologue and uh hopefully a bit of back and forth chat if
anyone comes. I'll be starting officially in about one minute's time. Okay, we're live then.
So it's been a while since I hosted a space.
I thought this would be a week that I probably should do one.
I'm going to run through my thoughts, what's going on.
People whose head was not in a bubble,
although you'd be forgiven because we're all in a bubble,
over the last, what was it?
It was a week ago now.
Wow, time's flown.
I thought it was within a week.
It might technically still just be within a week,
but that was the release of the Epstein files,
specifically ones relating to child trafficking technology
and things like that.
So that was over the weekend of January the 31st.
What I've been talking about for years now is the fact that there seems to be a secret society
running the world. No, your conspiracy theorism. Well, actually, it's now proven. It's now fact.
Now you could say, well, but perhaps that's the conspiracy. I agree. Let's have a dialogue.
But at least the evidence is on the table now, that it definitely needs to be discussed yes it could be fake
could be a conspiracy theory in itself but because there's now evidence from the government supporting
it at least it should be discussed so this is i think this is is a game changer here. So over seven days ago, or just within seven days,
someone at the justice.gov department of the...
Oh, and good morning, Lurkey.
It's been a while.
I'm sure you've missed my voice.
You wonderful, beautiful software application, you.
Pulling out some of my conspiracy lines, no doubt,
over the months and months. Well,
seven days ago, someone at justice.gov released the Epstein files. And yeah, there seems to be
evidence of a ring, a secret ring that's trafficking children. That's basically the
implication. That's basically the people that have been following it. That's roughly what they're saying.
There seems to be
Satanism and cannibalism.
Not nice saying these words, but
I think it's necessary to say
them because that's how
information spreads by the sound of the human voice.
there's a lot
of questions now. There's
I think a million files so far.
But there's talk of Bitcoin in there.
What happened to Bitcoin?
And it appears in 2014, at least that's the earliest evidence.
Oh, I didn't tweet the thing out, did I, of course?
It's been a while since I hosted a space.
You should always tweet it at the start. It's been a while since I hosted a space.
You should always tweet it at the start.
And, yeah, let me just post this first because I'll stutter and stumble, no doubt. Let's put the old hashtags, ChiaBitcoin. Bitcoin.
Okay, that's out there.
So the capsule review is really that Bitcoin started and we don't know who created Bitcoin.
That's pretty much still the case.
Satoshi, is it a person or a team?
It's unknown.
It doesn't really matter.
It's a group of people.
It could be one person.
Well, no, that's one person.
It could be two people, three people, four people, five, six, seven, eight, a hundred thousand.
So how many people are in a group? It's not possible to easily know even the number of people in Satoshi. So it's certainly not possible to know who they are and if it's one person. So
whoever created Bitcoin, that's unknown.
And that has not been revealed in the white paper.
I can't see any evidence of Satoshi in...
Sorry, did I say the white paper?
In the Epstein files.
Two completely different things.
I hope they are anyway.
God.
The Bitcoin white paper and the Epstein files.
Satoshi was not mentioned in the Epstein files.
Satoshi was mentioned in the Bitcoin white paper and the epstein files satoshi was not mentioned in the epstein files satoshi was mentioned in the bitcoin white paper so uh satoshi created bitcoin that's pretty much well known
it's a pseudonym it's unknown it's it could be a group but then in 2014
according to the epstein files the earliest that i've seen
they started trying to put money into controlling the developers who were left behind after
satoshi manually left so satoshi for different reasons in fact i, I think Julian Assange was linked to it.
Although I don't know if there were other things,
and that was what was mentioned.
I think the hornet's nest was what Satoshi described it as. He said Julian Assange has whipped up a hornet's nest,
and so Satoshi went quiet.
Satoshi went quiet. Satoshi went quiet.
And then after Satoshi went quiet,
that's when Epstein moved in with the money.
Now, it was revealed in the papers
that Epstein is controlled by the Rothschilds.
So the Rothschilds are basically the family running the world, essentially.
Okay, we've got a request to come up and, of course, open forum.
I thought it was anyone could just come and speak.
But anyway, I'm going to have to give him a great introduction because he deserves it.
After the amazing introduction that he gave me when he invited me on his show,
he's traveling around the world.
He's visiting senators.
He's making uh fields basically
with his bare hands and he's promoting blockchain freedom and uh basically cheer as well so hopefully
it's let him up on the stage welcome digital gold talk if you have made it safely up hey welcome
welcome back i'm glad you're here i know there he is. I don't know if you're on the way up there, but he's traveling the world,
meeting the senators, building farms with his bare hands. He's promoting decentralization,
freedom, liberty, all of that good stuff. Welcome, Digital Gold Talk to the stage.
Thanks. How are you doing today, Edward?
I think it's silent on mine. I don't know if it's my computer ah we're
getting we've got issues huh yeah my mic is on let me leave and come back I got
you can you hear me now lovely yeah I think it's something it might be a
welcome to the stage good to see you my friend good to see you my friend yeah
it's it's interesting this timing of. I wonder if this isn't just a distraction for the $15 trillion in value that was taken out of the silver and gold market as contracts ended and the banks had to come up with delivery of supply.
All of a sudden, they take $15 trillion in value out of the market,
and they have seen list drops.
You know what I mean?
It just seems like it's a distraction to get us all to look at one hand because we don't want to look at potentially what was maybe naked shorting.
Just like GameStop, they were way underwater, the banks,
short silver especially, and all of a sudden it drops 15 trillion
in value and they cover their their shorts and now silver is working its way back up i don't know
if that happened or not but it seems that the timing whenever you you know remember bill clinton
and the monoclewinski and the blue dress that had the you know stains on it
and that's going to court and that day bill clinton bombs a embassy in africa and tells us
about a guy named osama bin laden for the first time and so it's sort of like no no don't look
at that look at this and you know i mean two trillion dollars missing at the pentagon
and on the next day the world trade centers collapse and nobody's thinking about the two
trillion that is missing anymore no one talked about it ever again so i don't know man it's
interesting oh yeah now you think now you mentioned it the timing it the silver thing was weird
thinking about it i i'm not like a i don own silver, but for like about two weeks or a month, it was just like silver's going up, silver's going up.
And then all of a sudden silver went down.
So it does feel like coordination a bit.
But silver didn't just ease its way down though, brother.
Silver did a red candle of $ trillion dollars in a matter of minutes that means collusion by
all of the banks and all the people they had to have all sold at the exact same moment
and it's just before the contracts expire and they have to deliver and if they had paper i'm
not saying anybody did i'm just trying to figure out what just happened. And it's like with GameStop,
people were literally doing naked shorting,
meaning that they were shorting shares of GameStop
that didn't really exist.
And Keith Gill pointed it out
and Citadel and all those, they lost.
They lost tens of billions of dollars, these hedge funds.
And so is it possible that paper contracts, naked contracts that didn't really exist,
were used wholeheartedly by all of those banks underwater and just red candle, because how else
do you explain that kind of a red candle? And all of a sudden they're not underwater. They can cover their shorts at much lower costs,
and now maybe they even go long.
And meanwhile, it doesn't make front-page news
because the Epstein list drops,
which, by the way, nothing's going to happen.
Like, no one's going to jail.
Well, it depends what sort of jail.
I'm talking about Epstein.
Well, it depends what sort of jail, though, because there are mental prisons.
People can be put in a mental prison, and that's the first thing.
There's people who are in prison in reality, and they're free because they picture heaven, and they read books and that kind of thing.
There's the opposite of that as well.
There's walking free, but in a mental prison.
So I thought that was worth mentioning.
But just welcome to the stage, Kepa.
Good to see you.
Thanks for coming up.
Please feel free to jump in at any moment.
And yeah, great to have you up here.
There's only one kind of prison that matters to me.
If you rape children, you go to prison.
Prison.
You lose your freedom.
You're done.
And yet all of these emails, they still redacted the names,
which means they know the name of the people that did these crimes,
but no one's going to prison.
So that makes me think this is really just a distraction.
Yeah, it feels a bit too good to be true, doesn't it?
It's like release the Epstein files and we'll be at war with Iran in about two weeks and everyone will forget. CBDC and they just want to kill crypto and kill all the altcoins and just make people lose faith
in crypto and just walk away from it finally. You know, I don't know. Yeah. If you want to damage
Bitcoin, make it seem Epstein was behind it. Right. I mean that I would never, never have
thought of that as a plan. Wow. Yeah. Now you got the MIT media lab guy come out saying, I would never, never have thought of that as a plan. Wow.
Yeah, now you've Google DEN, Digital Entertainment
Network and Brock Pierce, you'll find that the founder of the chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation,
Brock Pierce, literally was extradited back from Spain in manacles and settled out of court
for millions of dollars because they were raping little boys in their hot tub after getting them
drunk. And this is a fact. This is out there. And that's the chairman of the foundation. That's no joke.
And he did meet with Epstein, no doubt. But the MIT Media Lab guy came out and was like,
yeah, listen, we needed money and we took it. And it was Epstein that did it. And
they're coming out and it's almost like he's just part of this scandal now that they want
to put around crypto and bitcoin specifically it just
i don't know i don't know man what what a time to be alive craziness right yeah the bitcoin name is
up for uh i think the community has got to take it back it's really i don't expect satoshi is
going to come out and publicly say well i'm going to take it because that could be dangerous for him or them.
But I feel that, yeah, it's up to everyone in the world
to take the name back one way or another.
I really think that.
If Bitcoin is a solution, and I think it is through all of it,
I still think that was the big revolution in the world right there.
An anonymous piece of software that was open source.
Boom.
Or was this all a beta test for the central bank digital currency
and they wanted it open source so that they could figure out
all the ways that it could work or be hacked?
And now they have that central bank digital currency
in the way of stable coins backed by treasuries that no one will buy.
And now that they've got what they want kill the beta well i could definitely think that that is possible to think out but why wouldn't they have just done it with a sort of a digital one
that wasn't decentralized because we didn't i mean mean, I never grew up thinking that there'd
be a decentralized thing. So yeah, it could be an onboarding tactic for sure. I mean, yeah,
get everyone on Bitcoin. Just tell a story. It goes up a thousand X every day or whatever.
And then before they know it, they're on a central bank digital currency. Maybe.
I don't think that's the case, but I do see the argument.
I don't think that's the case, but I do see the argument.
Don't know.
Don't know. Don't know.
Don't know.
Yeah, so welcome, everyone.
I have invited Kurt Wookert Jr.
I don't know if you two have met before.
Digital, I'm not sure, but he's a sort of…
Nice to meet you, Kurt.
Yeah, he's maybe here in a bit.
Oh, he's not here yet?
Okay.
Yeah, he's basically the, as I can see it,
sort of like the longest tenured Bitcoin historian, quote-unquote.
Historian meets social media presence,
which is how you communicate information, of course.
Well, yeah, he's been following this for years, it seems,
and he said he'd come to the space,
and I think he's under the weather, he said,
but he'll try and attend. But, yeah, I thought it'd be cool if you could get to meet him as well
because i think he'd be a great guest for your show that'd be amazing thank you yeah i don't
know man you know i mean it's like uh and then the of course this is also a fact that if you
were to say satoshi nakamoto in japanese, they say surname first, it would be
Nakamoto Satoshi. And Nakamoto means central or middle, right? And Satoshi means wise.
So if you got middle wise, you also sort of have central intelligence. Just saying, it's true. I
mean, look it up, you know, in in japanese you would say nakamoto satoshi and
that means middle wise i like it yeah i wonder if i was in the position where i could release
a crypto like that would i just quietly do it would i put a little middle finger and sort of a little NSA hint, right? Just to say F you.
Yeah.
I mean,
it's all just fun and games,
but who knows?
Who knows?
Analyzing that sort of thing.
Cause we don't know much about Satoshi.
So thinking of those sorts of things,
it is important in a sense,
just to kind of get,
get a feel of the way in which Bitcoin was launched.
It wasn't launched on a private island with children.
It seems to have literally been a small team or one person.
So it's important that people know that, I think.
And if anyone thinks that's not the case, come to the space,
come to the stage or message me, email me,
anewformofmusicatgmail.com if you're listening to this back.
If you have evidence that Epstein did create Bitcoin, let me know. I i'll talk about it but there's no evidence that epstein created bitcoin yet no that he funded
it you know the guy came out today and said look you know is it true that he gave us money for this
yes it's true but it was after this many engineers and this many lines of code but then after that
it is true that we then built this much using his money.
And it's like, why is this guy saying this?
Why is he even talking?
You know, there is no backdoor.
Jared Tate of Digibyte states that unequivocally,
that if there was a backdoor,
there have been enough people that looked at the,
and audited the code and worked on the code,
they'd found a backdoor.
So who knows, man?
Again, that's why I just think this is all kabuki theater,
a distraction.
Yeah, kabuki theater.
I think that's exactly what's going on.
Politics is fake.
It's all fake, and it's a distraction.
They want us fighting each other, red versus blue, instead of being
red, white, and blue, because then
if we're together, we're strong.
But if we're divided, we can be conquered easily.
So where are we at then, my man?
What is it, 7th of February?
Are we currently winning,
or are they still beating us?
How would you even measure it?
I mean, it feels like that weekend was a massive,
massive sort of strike against them.
But in reality, where are we as of today?
Nowhere. No one's been arrested.
No one has been arrested.
I mean, look, if they're redacting names,
they know who the names are.
If the names are saying that they want to meet on the island and have sex with children, they know who they are.
Where's the grand jury?
Where are the arrests?
Where are the trials?
And then another side of it is this is the midterms, man.
And then another side of it is this is the midterms, man.
We are now months away from the primaries, but then the general elections that are going to decide who controls Congress.
And so right now would be a really good time to remind the Trump administration and the Republicans that if you're not doing exactly what we say, for instance, invade Iran,
you might not win the midterms. And we can put all sorts of crazy pressure on you.
It was interesting that they also seemed to attack Elon Musk,
the one guy supposedly giving us freedom of speech here on X.
They exerted pressure on him too.
And he's into the islands, it seems.
He was actually trying to get on the island. Was he though?
Was he?
Do we know that what they put out there is true?
Good point.
I'll say no.
No, none of us know that.
So again, when I say put pressure,
there was saying that Trump raped a 13-year-old girl.
Really?
Do we know that?
Do we know that that's really in the files?
Or again, were they putting pressure on Trump and Musk?
You guys fall in line to what we want here, because if you don't, we can make your lives a mess.
I see.
So maybe the head family or whatever could put some fake ones out about musk
or trump or anyone else gotcha yeah yeah again again yeah this is all theater guys because
none of us know anything is real
yeah i my mind is so open it's like that what you just described could definitely be real
and it could be that musk was trying to go to the island as well and that i think he probably was
because he like he was dressed like a satan for about a year on his profile picture and uh he's
talking about new world orders depopulation every all the time so he's part of it whether he
physically went to the island i don't
know i'd love to chat with him i'd love to chat with elon musk and ask him do you remember when
he was on joe rogan and invasive uh when yeah when he was on rogan he backed started backing
off because he went in there and he found all of these ways that they were stealing money
all the fraud all the corruption and he told And he told Rogan, if I was to
share with you all of the things that I saw and learned, my life would be in danger.
And then he backed away from Doge. And I'm not talking about Dogecoin. I'm talking about the
department of, you know, whatever whatever it was he just backed away
from it and and and exited and didn't talk about it again because i think there's such corruption
and graph happening he had said like two-thirds of all expenditures in the united states right
now by the government are all fraud and corruption well wouldn't that put his life in danger if he was to actually, you know,
put out there the names and give the receipts?
And so I think he's just learned that it's too much.
There's just too much.
No one's going to stop it.
Back off.
Go ahead, Kepa.
I saw your hand was up there for a second.
Please jump in.
Yeah, yeah. I saw your hand was up there for a second. Please jump in. Yeah, yeah. I saw the...
Oh, you're a little bit quiet.
It's like your hand's over the mic.
There you go.
Can you hear me now?
No, not very well. I can hear you, to be clear.
So this is like the... acceptable, but it's just a little quiet, so...
Is it clear or no?
Not really. It sounds like there's a sort of your hands over it perhaps that's right please go ahead don't worry if if it's not clear i'll
re i'll say it again okay so i saw what you were talking about about you know i actually felt it was because of the pressure from the white
side or the people you're contacted and those who were actually kind of exposed
um when it comes to this whole creature stuff i feel like they're surfing and
you're always the constant pushing from like
actually i i can't make anything no no i can't understand it's just I can't understand. It's just too quiet.
It's like there's a coconut shell or something over it.
Trevor, try updating your application on your phone.
Might help.
We can try again, Kepa.
Don't worry.
We'll come back.
But welcome to the stage, Lucas. It's been a while. Good to see you up. Please jump in, my friend. Don't worry. We'll come back. But welcome to the stage Lucas. It's been a while good to see you up Please jump in my friend likewise Edward. Good to see you. Um, I just well I heard y'all talking about Musk
Did y'all happen to catch to watch?
Now I'm drawing a blank the Ep Epstein-Steve Bannon interview. No. Uh-oh.
I saw it, yeah.
I highly recommend.
And as I was watching it, because what, you know, the Linus blanket of dust around it is that he's an idiot.
But I listened to it and I said Jeffrey Epstein understood what we call modern monetary theory.
And though some people like Elon Musk, who maybe live a little bit further in the past, don't like some of the ideas, Jeffrey Epstein had embraced it.
He didn't mind the creation of debt.
of debt. And, and, you know, Elon with his abrupt departure from Doge, um, let's remember too,
that who ran before him, Vivek, uh, writing on the wall. I don't know if anyone, if y'all are
watching Vivek's run in Ohio, but it's kind of a train wreck. Um I think Elon Musk began to discover how money is actually created
at Doge. And he was coming in from a classical or neoclassical understanding of the creation of
money. And what do I think we are at the precipice of now is a multi-nodal, multi-currency.
We're getting away from one great denominator.
So to me, that, I don't know if Elon has learned that,
but I think the likes of Scott Bessent and some of the Trump administration
are very aware of sort of breaking
notions of what the acceptable proper and best way to create money is i'd love that to be true
that would be brilliant if that was true.
Now, you know that they essentially called Bitcoin a commodity.
It comes under CFTC.
It doesn't come under FinCEN.
And that there are rules in place that you're not supposed to allow a currency to compete with the dollar.
And if you look at legal tender, legal tender is questionable also because the constitution gives the government the right to
coin money in the form of gold or silver, but not to print money that has nothing behind it.
And the legal tender system was actually challenged at the Supreme Court. And the night before it was
to be voted on, Grant put three
new Supreme Court justices in place that voted for it. But it was supposed to be only for
national emergency. And like in the case of Lincoln, he sent supposedly, my understanding is,
during the Civil War, he needed $450 million, went and sent his Treasury Secretary
to New York and was told that by the bankers, the European bankers, they would loan at 28% interest
and they would loan him the money, 28% interest, but were also going to loan money to the
Confederates. And the winner would have to pay both debts and 28% interest on both debts.
Lincoln said no. He printed up legal tender, I believe this is the
story, that he created $450 million back by nothing. But it was at a national emergency
time of war. And he won, of course, and then said that he was going to end the charter of this
group of European bankers. Federal Reserve is really just member-owned bank. It's absolutely private. It's not part of the United States government in the sense that it's not
federal, no more than Federal Express. It's just a name they gave it, but that it is actually
illegal for anyone to create anything and call it legal tender, except the U.S. government and the
Federal Reserve notes. But it's questionable whether that's even legal. That said, we were talking to Senator Jesse Keel of Alaska on our last podcast, Sunday with senators. And he was
saying that you absolutely cannot get legal tender status for anything. And then the more I looked
into it, I was like, oh yeah, actually the CFTC controls Bitcoin, not as a currency, that'd be
but as a commodity. And so it is taxable because
the other thing is we thought that it was unfair that these currencies are taxed because if you
trade a Canadian dollar for a euro for a dollar and back and around and make a profit at it,
it's not taxable because you're just trading currencies. So why is cryptocurrency taxable?
Well, because it's commodity, right so but i would love it if what
you're saying is true bro i mean that would be amazing if they actually move towards competing
currency because then ludwig von meises um he thought there should be competing currencies
and i would be all for it well i love that i will i love how well versed i don't run into a lot of
people who are well versed in um civil eared in Civil War era creation of the reserve note system.
But you're right.
You mentioned the treasurer, Lincoln's treasurer once, Salmon P. Chase, and fascinating figure.
He demurred as to taking the presidency after Lincoln was assassinated because he wanted to ensure that the federal
note system lasted. And so he took the chief justice role at the Supreme Court. He also
created the Republican Party. And, you know, and I am fascinated with that era because prior to that creation was a time, you know, I've long thought that we were moving towards multiple currencies and not multiple financial instruments.
You mentioned the CFTC. People ask me about the SEC and CFTC financial regulations, and I say there's a difference between currency and finance.
Finance goes to the future, counts backwards. Those are instruments. And those are based on
currencies. What are currencies? Or money, actually. I should say money, because currency
is just a selection of money. A currency is starting in the present or possibly in the past
and counting forward. And so they kind of work against each other.
But we have lived so long under the penumbra of federal usurpation of currency that's hard for people to see.
And they accept financial regulation as an acceptable power of the federal government to regulate currency.
But when you mentioned New York, you know, Lincoln went to New York.
He went to New York when he was campaigning.
And they said, if you bring this war, our streets will grow over with grass and our ships will rot in our ports.
And he had gone
to a meeting with millionaires where he was also, he was also asked, well, this is a group of
millionaires. How come you can, can, can join with them? And he said, I'm a millionaire. I have a
million votes. They've a million dollars. We have common cause. And he told them that he would not destroy their commerce and that he would turn them to, one, war production.
So when we look at the military-industrial complex today, I'm always fascinated that that was the deal that Lincoln wrought with the port, the link between the South and the British trading empire.
You know, the link between the South and the British trading empire.
The other thing that blows my mind is later when he needed money to pay the troops because everything didn't go off smoothly and it'd be a four-day war, as he thought it would be.
He went to those bankers for money, as you said, and they told him no.
And then what you told was their second offer. They said, well, if we fund you, we'll
fund both sides. But at first they told him no. And that got trotted out to the press in New York
and the public was furious. And thus we came onto the concept of selling war bonds.
came onto the concept of selling war bonds.
And that was really the underpinning of the greenback currency.
And later the bankers would strive to take back over that,
and that would become fully realized in 1913.
And I think that's important also to think about today
when we look at Scott Besant, when we look at the restructuring of the floating rates behind financial contracts and what the Trump administration is
trying to do. And I think that they want to, again, or in dialing us back, take us directly to the people with regards to how the dollar is structured.
And I don't think they want to, I don't think they necessarily, maybe they'll give up.
Actually, I'm going far afield here.
I think they will fight tooth and nail to keep control of currency, period.
So anyway, I'm nattering on.
Sorry, Edward.
It's okay.
Fascinating.
Wow.
Fascinating.
I love learning more.
Do you not think that their obsession with Bitcoin
is likely linked to their desire to control all currency?
That that is at the heart of it,
that when Bitcoin launched,
it completely shook the world up, let's say.
And so now it's like a scramble to control the narrative.
And it seems they're trying to say that Epstein and the files drop hurts
Bitcoin.
People like to fan the flame of that.
So I think it's worth saying.
I don't think that's the case, but yeah, sorry, digital.
Go ahead.
Thoughts?
No, just that's what you just said is great too lucas what's your
what's your background just i'm just fascinated by you now um i grew up a farmer i'm i'm a i
what should i call i should say i'm the the last standing physiocrat left in the world
um i was fascinated with the the collapse in 2008 2009
i was around bitcoin when it um prior to the launching of the white paper i was interested
in cryptocurrencies from the late 90s so and and to that you know edward when you say you know
i've long thought that that bitcoin was fascinating. It made me think of the dollar in a different way. It made me understand what I call the great denominator
and to look forward in the future and begin to say, oh, wait a second.
It didn't start with Bitcoin.
There's all this narrative about Satoshi and the hacking of Bitcoin.
The things that were changing in people's minds are much grander and and and when i think even
of currency like like i was or when i think of early bitcoin and early cryptocurrencies i was
a sophomore in 1995 and and all of the talk of the time was of internet time you know you know
because because even the this the the the lacanian projection that we make of the one great denominator
that undergirds value in our lives and drives us all like the internet and the the communication that it brought we immediately
begin to project that forward it was interesting to me whenever 21 million was the cap of bitcoin
i at first thought that was a stab in the back um then i thought oh wait a second we have to begin to
have something that gives us the ability to see the dollar as the one great
denominator and also begin to think about money not in terms of price theory but in supply theory
and that's something else that it has done you still don't have economists that that begin to
that begin to acknowledge that the supply or the number of a coin that exists is important, but is.
And price theory is absolutely bankrupt.
This was something else that Jeffrey Epstein understood.
And he wasn't evil because of that.
Because there are some people, I just, I mention that because some people say,
well, he was totally a tool of Israel.
I say, no, he understood money in a very profound and very advanced way, especially for the time period in which he was blowing up.
It didn't it wasn't a he didn't have he didn't have moral hangups on accruing more debt.
I would imagine that he looked at his business as matching people in order to align the creation of debt.
And if we think about the moral bankruptcy of our commercial system today and private
equity, why didn't anything work?
Well, because it just has to be a false narrative to create a reason to embroil ourselves in
more debt.
Well, that's anyway.
Yeah, I'm nattering again, but what am I?
I call myself a physiocrat and somebody who would like to see at least interest to return to an understanding
that we are bound by resources, by the natural order of things,
and interest should be the price of time, and we should be thinking about not having commerce
that has run away from agriculture, from natural waiting periods,
because that leads to a destruction of the world.
I wonder, though, you're coming at it from the angle that Epstein had a deep understanding of
money and that, and I can appreciate where you're coming from. The one thing that I also wonder, though, is, you know, they have big and just humor me, right?
I'm not making any bold proclamations, but there is Bitcoin pizza day.
And these evil people do like to put things right in our face.
Everybody knows what Pizzagate was and what pizza refers to. It's not lost on me that the first largely broadcast transaction for Bitcoin was pizza, right? It's not lost on me that people that were in that space where Epstein thrived would certainly want a way that they could privately, or at least seemingly
privately, pay for things that were so nefarious and horrible. And that Brock Pierce was the
chairman of this foundation. And again, look up Digital Entertainment Network and Brock Pierce,
and you'll be horrified at the things that he did and was involved in. And this was well before Bitcoin's establishment.
So I don't know that he was this economic genius
that really understood monetary policy and money
and the way transactions occur and inflation
and needing something to be scarce or any of that
so much as was he looking
for a way for his friends to pay for really, really horrible things privately?
I don't know anything. And again, I think this is all probably more than anything a distraction
to either hurt crypto, hurt it much worse than, you know, Mt. Gox being hacked or Silk
Road or FTX or any of those things. Those were just monetary losses. But put something, Silk
Road kind of did this by putting Bitcoin in this position where, well, it's used for buying drugs.
Well, so is money. There was a time in the 80s, I remember when they say almost
every $100 bill had cocaine residue on it because you'd twist those up to snort your coke.
But of course, murder for hire, drugs, prostitution, gambling, anything that has been ever evil in the
world has been paid for with paper money at some point or another, but they want to put that stigma specifically on Bitcoin. And they've tried to do it and they did it with Silk
Road. And now they've got their central bank digital currency. We all have tested this. We
know how these systems work. We know what their shortcomings were. And now they've got their CBDC
buying up again, those treasuries that I think are worthless and nobody wants to buy,
but they've got a buyer for them now called stablecoins, and that is programmable,
centrally controlled money. That's what it is, and that's what they wanted, but they're not
calling it CBDC because that got taint. And now that they've got that, it seems like they're
trying to rug the community, in my opinion only, just an opinion, but what greater taint could you put on an entire industry
than tying it to child sex trafficking
and the most notorious child sex trafficker of all times?
And so whether it's that,
whether it's that,
in addition to,
they did rug the silver market
for the greatest loss ever in history that happened in a matter of moments just before contracts expired and they'd have to deliver the actual commodity.
They took $15 trillion out of the silver and gold market.
When the rumor was that, I don't know, but that the banks were all short silver at $40, $50, $60, $80, whatever, and that they were caught flat-footed.
And certainly that would have put them back on an even keel, especially if they got the
profits from those naked shorts, which they could have been just like GameStop shorts,
creating paper silver contracts, selling them, making money on the drop, going long.
Now that you know silver is in short supply, clearly for satellites and electric cars and
solar panels, and there is more demand than there is supply.
And they reversed everything now, and now they're good.
Meanwhile, release the Epstein list, and everybody is now looking at your left hand, and the magician is putting that ball in his pocket with the right hand.
but what do i know
But what do I know?
like david bowie in labyrinth when he's got that crystal ball and he he sort of
hypnotizes everyone and then slips in his pocket and off he goes so uh yeah great points there
digital amazing lucas you want to jump in um you just referenced one of my favorite movies edward um you remind me of the babe
oh my god um you're you're absolutely right digital i don't i don't i don't want to paint
i the the only reason that i bring that up about eps about epstein with regards to mmt was that was a shock to me um because i do think that
there is i do think that the narrative that is laid over the world is does not align with the
power structure of the world and i don't know i don't know if um if the the people in power in the world are obsessed with sex with children,
are obsessed with eating, eating humans.
But I know that has happened in the past,
and I know that the narrative of how power is expressed throughout the world is not true.
is expressed throughout the world is not true. And there's any number of data points for which
to line that up. But you guys bring up CBDs too. And part of why I've been, I don't know,
part of why I'm a hermit in the wilderness is because you know the the threat of
CBDCs and the threat of government control you know I hang out with MAGA and I tell them all
the time the Republicans are not the very party of states right they were never intended to be
the party of states right Sam and P Chase created the Republican Party to use the power of the
judiciary to rob the states of their
rights. And he told them that he was going to, it was the original design of the Republican Party
to enforce the will of the people on the state's governments. So that we're out of sync from the
creation of the Republican Party. We have so many Republicans, Libertarians, anarchists that
also talk about limiting the size of government. They're usually talking about the size of the
federal government. And they've been hoodwinked into thinking they mean by the purse or the amount
of spending of the government or the number of employees. But what we really want are governments that are more local.
We want to limit the size of government by jurisdiction.
And we've even given up with regards to allowing the jurisdiction of commerce
and of interstate commerce to creep into all aspects of our world today.
But more broadly throughout the world, whether it be with Brexit,
whether it be with Somaliland, whether it be in Burma, in everywhere in the world,
what we would like to see are governments that answer to localities. So I think that's also something
that we're on the brink of discovering here. I think it's also that crypto brings a tool that's
necessary for it, and that will be CBDCs. But the answer to CBDCs or the threat of the fascism
or the power over people that they can bring is to break out and say, oh, wait a second,
we're not limited to one money. And not only that, but if we're going to have a CBDC,
then we need to be thinking in terms of taxes. And we need to have a CBDC that's based on,
say, a land tax and a real estate tax and maybe other commercial agreements that exist between people.
Go back to James Madison at the Constitutional Convention.
And in the Constitutional Convention, they were talking not just about free governments, but about commercial governments.
And free to them was not a synonym of liberty.
Now we take it as a synonym of liberty.
Free was in reference to tax preference.
And the tax preference wasn't because everybody got to move around the world in the libertine ways.
It was because they belonged.
Freedom means Freya's house, mom's house, Freya-dom, Freya-dom.
And the idea early in the American experiment was that we would have these free governments.
What did they mean by free governments?
that empowered the local people who had chosen to use their liberty to move to people who saw the world as they did.
And so, you know, how does the federal government abuse the states and the local governments today?
Now we see them actually, you know, using physical force, but for the longest time they've just said,
well, you're broke without us.
You need the money. We'll give you grants. We'll give you loans.
So if we want to have free governments, then they need to have their own monies. If they're going to have their own monies, then they need to have an accounting of the people who deserve
freedom. So people do not abuse liberty to go around and pull an Elon Musk and
say, you know, move to America for a good time, move to Canada for free school, and meanwhile have
money or a source of revenue, daddy, that's in South Africa, that's not bound up in the free governments of the United States or Canada.
So anyway, y'all really got me. Y'all got me. Y'all got me Gavin tonight.
But I've these I'm glad glad to have the discussion, Edward. And it's good to see you.
You said something that caught my attention there. I feel I've got a duty bound to go back to it. You mentioned something about eating children. I would understand why you wouldn't want to, but would you care to elaborate? Otherwise, I will.
I love one history. I love Aztec Mayan American history. I know that that was very much a part of especially Aztec culture.
in the in the modern or the postmodern or the current narrative of today but when i hear it
i often think to myself do these people know of the religion of the aztecs do these people know
that that you know that the aztecs abused children to make them cry in order to make it rain
that they believed that the world was round but it took blood being poured into the ground to keep it spinning
um and and there's a there's there are deep concepts of that that um
that that go deeply into you know something anathema to us eating other humans we have we have this um this christian or humanist idea of the world that everybody is imbued with God.
Well, it doesn't even necessarily mean that the Aztecs and the Mayans didn't believe everyone was imbued with God.
They even thought of death differently.
They didn't think that death was linear and came after life.
They believed that it existed simultaneously and that you were merely crossing a veil and that there were that were there were four worlds that are five worlds
They believed that it existed simultaneously and that you were merely crossing a veil.
depending on how you talk to you that existed all together. So
That's why that's why I bring that up and I know that there's a deep narrative about it adenochrome, etc, etc
Yeah, I think the first official evidence was in the epstein files and it's
evidence it's not proof so that's important and also about the bitcoin pizza could that be a
wink towards sort of child trafficking i'd say that it was inevitable that a form of food would
be ordered with the world's first crypto and the world's most obvious food to order is pizza so even though it's possible
that it was a sort of elite thing hinting at pizza and child trafficking code words etc
i think it's also there's a good chance it was just simply pizzas are the most well-known
deliverable food yeah and if it wasn't for the Brock Pierce chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation connection, I would agree with you that it just seems so like, yeah, I mean, everyone loves pizza. Pizza's just a food everyone loves.
and that they were literally, you know, raping little boys in their hot tub, getting them drunk.
And this was no small thing.
You know, Digital Entertainment Network was backed by Visa and Microsoft and the big studios.
And it was a big deal.
You know, Brock Pierce was a child actor and he was thought to be this technology savant.
And they put this thing together and they got all this investment and they brought people
to or kids you know and if you read deep you know you'll find that brock was literally the guy out
there as a young man getting the little boys and bringing them into those hot tubs he just was
and um he got called out and uh they took off to Spain. And while they were away,
one of the boys that was being molested went in there and collected the emails and everything of
Brock saying that he found someone and the guy saying, oh, he looks yummy, bring him to the house
and all this. And Brock and these guys were literally putting manacles by Interpol in Spain
and literally brought back. And Brock's lawyer
was also my lawyer at one point. And he didn't elaborate on it, but let me know that Brock paid
millions of dollars to settle it. But hey, isn't it possible that Brock was also being abused and
that he was actually a victim in this, like any good lawyer would say? And I don't know,
I don't know. I wasn't there. Maybe he was a victim. But interesting that after being
I wasn't there. Maybe he was a victim. But interesting that after being accused of that,
accused of that, he's then in the Manhattan apartment of Epstein making deals and trying
to get him to help him buy Mt. Gox and call it Gox Rising and getting money from him to start
Tether and getting money to start Coinbase and then negotiating the $5 million that turned into
$30 million, according to these Epstein releases and getting
$15 million back. But, you know, did you get them? Why? Or did you get the money? You know,
that kind of thing. And so, and this is well after he'd been put in manacles and brought back for,
you know, abusing children. So that is why I just think it's, it almost seems too obvious to be true, but that's the
group he hangs out with. He's part of the Clinton initiative or whatever global initiative. Those
are the people he hangs out with. You talk about a denochrome in that, and of course,
the name Hillary Clinton and all those things come up. I don't know. Again, they like to put stuff right out in your face.
And it's probably not true, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.
That's all I'm saying.
Well, I like to stick to what we know for sure.
And you're 100% right to be screaming alarm bells about Brock Pierce.
And I mean, Bryan Singer, we'll throw Brian Singer in there too.
I forget some of the other group.
I could drum it back up if I, whatever.
But when I saw Brock Pierce's name in crypto years ago, I was like, Jesus Christ.
Not just in crypto, brother.
Not just in crypto, brother.
Chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation.
Chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation.
Was he after Gavin Andreessen?
Gavin got it after him.
Gavin was after Brock?
Wow.
Yeah, as far as chairman of.
Yeah, and the vice chair was another scumbag named Charlie Shrem,
who stole $100,000 from me, by the way.
Charlie Shrem.
And Charlie is a weird little guy. named Charlie Shrem, who stole a hundred grand from me, by the way, Charlie Shrem, you know,
and Charlie is a weird little guy. And you know, that he and Brock were pals. Like when,
when Charlie got out of prison for running an, you know, uh, anti-money or rather, um,
money transmitter license, he didn't have one. And so they put him in for bit instant um so they put him in prison
and he got out um charlie told me that brock's the guy that picked him up at jail from prison
and gave him his first job after prison well he set him up there so like i've met these guys i
was in the back of a limo with brock pierce at you know in 2017 with the ethereum crew and
she's just a you know yeah well there's nothing good i can say
about that dude the the early the very early bitcoin community uh what were um it was a lot
of homos who were who were who were were looking for their own zist project, if I could put it that way.
And an anonymous digital currency seemed like an answer to a lot of societal problems.
But all of that aside...
All that aside, and by the way,
the Ethereum group is also that whole tribe.
Okay?
I call them Jewish mafia.
Like, that's that whole tribe
um well i've i had to mute to laugh but um
oh there's something i would there's y'all y'all y'all oh tether going back to tether 2015 actually
could i could i just make one very quick point about 10 seconds and we'll go back to Tether? But what you just said there, Digital, about Ethereum being set up, the origin of Ethereum launching is now crucial because it's not out of the realm of possibility. It was a sort of controlled opposition. So the person whose name is very important is Charles, Charles Hoskinson, he was there. So he would know. Okay. So Hoskinson, I met him too. I've got pictures of me and him hanging out at the TZero office on that same trip.
Hoskinson's an interesting dude.
I have nothing against him.
I have nothing negative to say.
He did BitShares with Dan Larimer, who then went and did EOS with Brock Pierce and scammed
people out of a billion dollars.
That's another story.
But Charles then went and was CTO of Ethereum, and then he started Cardano.
I've got nothing against Charles. I don't think he has anything to do with any of that at all.
But if you look at Steven Naryoff and Amir Chetrit and Shadan Gorin and all the other people I met,
I'm sitting at a table in the Hilton or wherever that thing was held, and I'm talking to these
guys, and they instantly start talking Yiddish, just so I can't understand. And I was just
like, oh, these guys are scumbags. Like they're literally talking behind my back in front of me.
Just horrible criminal people. And if you look up Steven Naryoff, you find again that he was
like put in police custody and that because he like helped somebody with an ICO and then
essentially extorted $20 million out of it.
This is just a bad group of people to the core.
And Ethereum is interesting too, because Nick Szabo invented smart contracts.
Some say that his Bitgold was his first draft of Bitcoin, right? Because it essentially is saying, let's code this thing up, proof of work,
on a one page, and then Bitcoin comes out and no one's hearing about Bitgold anymore.
But if you mix Bitcoin with his smart contracts, you get Ethereum.
And again, same group of people.
Okay, word on all that.
You didn't mention Joseph Lubin.
Joseph Lubin, Nerea.
I don't know Joe.
I don't know Joe.
I've never met him.
I've never met him.
Well, but getting aside from the cult of personality, because fast forward today, you know, what
blows my mind is one, I think Tether is being used to, you know, I think the Donald Trump,
Trump administration, Scott Besant, and I don't want to go too deep in the weeds here, but I think Scott Besant and Donald Trump have a grand plan in order to forestall the deflation of real estate in America.
And how are they going to do that?
Well, they want to raise the value of real estate around the world.
How are they going to do that? Well, they're going to use tether stable coins to subvert the central banks and the local currencies of all
the countries around the world to try to reprice real estate in U.S. dollars, U.S. dollars that
are tether stable coins that are backed by U.Suries and so we can take we can take
38 trillion dollars in debt and instead of that being laid over the shoulders of
360 380 million people they're all of a sudden laid over the shoulders of 8
billion people hmm and who you know who who custody's Tether's Treasuries?
Now I have to look it up.
Howard Letnick.
And who, what's Howard Letnick's, I'll look it up.
He's part of the Trump administration.
Yeah, he's part of the Trump administration.
He had to step down from Cantor Fitzgerald.
Right.
And Cantor Fitzgerald custodies all of the treasuries.
And where else do we know Cantor Fitzgerald from?
9-11.
9-11, and they were the ones that got hit right directly, and they're the ones that got bailed out and everything else.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And by the way, he didn't't go he'd never missed a day of
work but he missed that day of work weird weird well and and and meanwhile tether um his wife had
him go to the doctors to pick up something though to be fair yes yes there was a reason he missed
his first day of work ever yes yes well when the wife tells you to do something exactly bro exactly do it
that's why that who's brock pierce's wife that's the question we're coming around to
or who is his girlfriend that got drunk and fell off the balcony when she was about to spill the
beans on him whoops misstep does brock does he have a girlfriend? No, he did have a girlfriend and she supposedly
was going to go to the FBI and that with a whole bunch of dirt on Brock and his friends. And
she got drunk and slipped off the balcony, a 14th floor somewhere, I think New York. And she fell to
her death before she could testify, but that was her problem. She shouldn't have been drinking so close to a balcony.
It's all so evil, man.
It's all so fucking evil.
I'm sorry, I shouldn't curse.
No, it doesn't make me look smart when I curse. Well, it's the frustration.
It is frustrating.
Or beginning to contemplate the breadth of this disgusting web.
But yeah, I don't know.
So you were talking about Lutnik, you were saying.
And you were saying real estate and Tether and treasuries and spread it out over 8 billion people.
Well, and one, I find Lutnik very interesting.
That's part of why when Lutnik and Cantor cantor fitchell came on i was like holy shit um tether tether is being
groomed tether who's never who's never been audited who's who's had the farcical um the
farcical plotted the plaudits instead of audits. Yeah.
And, and,
and now they have,
well,
anyway,
and some say they raised $20 billion or 22,
whatever in their IPO to balance the books for what they had stolen.
Yeah.
Who knows?
Yeah.
And,
and don't forget about Bitfinex.
Bitfinex.
What was it?
That they,
they were accused originally of creating fake tether
to run up the price of Bitcoin in the first place
on one of its biggest bull runs.
Yep.
Yep.
Don't look over there.
Look over here.
Do you know what the logo is of Bitfinex?
I'll just leave that there.
Well, you've got to tell us now now I'm making my wife a chicken sandwich
I can't go look right now
okay it's a green leaf
but yeah I think that Tether is a major
it's like the quantitative easing of
crypto I'm gonna say it's a massive scandal there.
I don't know for sure if I was guessing gun to the head is Tether part of the corruption
in a sense.
And I'm going to say now it probably is.
It's like that Brock Pierce guy and the fact that Charles trafficking, as you pointed out,
he was like, was he arrested in Spain, you said?
Yeah, yeah, Interpol.
You can look it up. Look up Den, Brock Pierceck pierce spain interpol and you'll get the whole story
was that den d-e-n yeah like digital digital entertainment network
well there's there's one i mean i i think about the the bcci um Oh, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, Tether's a recreation of BCCI.
But as we also begin to say, oh, wait a second,
because there's a growing realization that we don't have a central bank.
We've given a license to a private monopoly for a central bank.
And to turn around and say, wait a second,
our government wants to take that tool out of the hands of the London banking cartel.
They've taken the control of financial fluctuating interest rates out of the hand of the banking cartel.
They've given it to the treasury.
Well, now they need a front in order to distribute money.
So it's the new thing.
That's fascinating and that's and and you know like
we had a guest on we had a guest on from tunisia and and he said you know we said do you like going
to france he said yeah but you know we have to we can only trade so much of our currency
in tunisia out and and he started telling us about all of the, of the gates that
are on Tunisians to keep them in the country and to keep them obedient. And, um, you know, you know,
like there, there's a way to work in the world. Uh, it's the way the CIA and the American military
have worked in the past in order to, or, or, and politicians to, uh, to or and politicians to to go to the to go to the heads
of state and to go to the bankers and to to threaten military action or to give them the
carrots and say we will give you so much money you you take you take a straw and drink from the
milkshake and we'll all give fat together well that's that's that way is going by the wayside. Now we are going to give them accounts and we are going to disperse real estate speculators into the likes of Tunisia.
And a house that cost $2,000 there, we're going to raise the price up to $30,000 USDT.
And that's how we're going to sell America's debt
to the entire world.
That's fascinating.
Edward always brings out my aluminum hat.
Well, I should have been selling tinfoil hats
three years ago as NFTs. I've missed the timing there. That would have been selling tinfoil hats three years ago as NFTs.
I've missed the timing there.
That would have been great.
But, yeah, I love hearing your long-form takes, Luca.
So it's one of the things I love about this medium is just hearing people sort of speak, really, I guess.
Just uninterrupted.
So, yeah, I love hearing your voice.
And, yeah, welcome, everyone.
If anyone wants to come up, usual rules, open forum, et cetera, come in.
It's recorded, though, so just be aware of that uh so yeah some big stuff came out seven days ago and how it affects bitcoin it's all up in the air i sort of thought there was a problem maybe a
couple of years ago when the pre-farm was uh started being sold i thought uh-oh but i'm not
sure i don't know how it affects chia but
that's to be discussed too but i think ultimately what do we do what do we do what's the solution
i feel that taking the bitcoin yeah maybe digital popcorn i feel that more conspiracy theory tinfoil
hat nfts are needed but but uh i think we've got to take the bitcoin name back for
whoever satoshi is and basically just hand the reins back to satoshi it's not me definitely not
me i'm not i only got into crypto in 2017 not trying to hint that i'm satoshi i'm not i'm just
a fan of chia but and bitcoin but uh i think that that's really important. But any other solutions, if someone's got an idea, tweet it out, come up on stage, etc.
But what a week. Jesus.
Jesus is listening. Please do save us now.
But yeah, what was...
I guess, what was the craziest thing that has been revealed in the papers?
Well, I suppose it's already been said.
It's sort of cannibalism is what's being hinted.
But what else is implied?
Again, don't you just think that this is all just sensationalism?
And when I say no one's going to be held to account for Epstein, it seems now that anytime they need to shock the world and get you to look to the right because they're doing something on your left,
they'll bring up Epstein and they'll say something terrible
and they'll talk about eating children or raping children
or we're finally gonna get the information
and we're finally gonna get this.
And then Trump comes out and is like,
we just really need to just leave this alone and bury it.
You know, I live in a small town
and I went over to get a coffee the other day
and I was talking to Marty, this gal who's like 65, and I asked her what she thinks about it.
And she's like, you know, I'm just sick of it.
I'm just sick of it.
Can't we just leave it behind now?
And I was like, that's probably most of America now.
And so they've normalized it at this point.
We're so sick of it now.
We don't even want to hear about it.
And we knew it happened.
We know it happened.
We think we know it now. We don't even want to hear about it. And we knew it happened. We know it happened.
We think we know it happened. But I think they literally just trot this out now when there's something else going on. So we'll look the other direction. The only question I had this time
around because of it being so, it wasn't just, hey, the Epstein list is out. Let's see who's on it.
It was the Epstein list is out and Bitcoin is evil and was created by pedophiles.
And it's like, whoa, that's interesting.
Are they trying to kill Bitcoin?
And are they trying to kill the altcoins?
Because that was unnecessary.
Yeah, but I think there's more so of,
I think you have a languishing crypto community
who were looking for themselves in the Epstein files
or looking, I don't know.
Maybe part of it is some top-down plan behind the release of information.
But I'm more like to think that the world is complex.
Much is happening at once.
We are on the brink of great change as we move away from United States dominance.
You know, there's all this narrative about the rules-based order or international law, the king, etc., etc., and I just laugh.
Rules are agreements between
people who get along, who speak of government as the
things that it brings to them, safety, peace, not the things
that it takes from them, taxes. And we've
lived generations without that conversation.
So, but then I look at, say, maybe the most shocked that I was in the last couple of days
was to see the president of Colombia go to the Oval Office and meet with Donald Trump.
to see the president of Colombia go to the Oval Office and meet with Donald Trump.
And afterwards, he had a meeting in Spanish with Telemundo and his constituency.
And he said, we've talked in South America about the Bolivarian Revolution and Gran Colombia,
but we need to be talking about Gran America.
And I thought that's that meaning the americas plural like north south central yes and and meaning um coming to a
greater alliance with the united states and and so despite like all of the of the hand-wringing
and the histrionics about what's
been going on in venezuela it could have been a hell of a lot worse and and you know there's also
a lot of blame that's put at donald trump's feet donald trump does not have the degree of control
that people assume that he does and certainly not with the pentagon and and um if you if you
don't control those people then you're left with a number of options.
But Donald Trump has seemed to be very, very interested in two things, bringing America's
relationship back home to its neighbors and strengthening that relationship. And if that
looks like force with greenland
greenland and force with venezuela it doesn't matter um he said i would say that he says the
ends justify the means and we have to have better relations with our our neighbor the other thing
that he's been adamant about is nuclear war and the start treaty end ended the last remaining treaty with Russia ended two days ago. And I hear a whole
lot of screaming and wailing and gnashing of teeth about that. And they say, Trump's got to
keep that treaty. Trump's got to keep that treaty. And I say, but wait a second,
who cheats on the treaty? The line in in the rush in american media and western media british
media edward european is that russia cheats russia's never cheated on it no and they didn't
break that in ukraine not one inch closer that was our promise and then it's like no ukraine
should be part of nato and we should park a bunch of warheads on Russia's corner. We broke it.
We started that war. And go back to the time of Genghis Khan. He said, y'all call me barbarian, you European nobility. You're barbaric with your class dispersion and you have nobles who are divorced from the land, and they do terrible
things. They lie. They lie to their enemies. They lie to their subjects. And we still have that
today. So if Donald Trump's going to break that, then he needs to bring the sort of reckoning to
the war hawks next. He needs to shave john bolton's mustache and how does he do
that he lets the treaty lapse and and and what happens next the the american war hawks say oh my
god oh my god oh my god the russians are building thousands of of of hypersonic ballistic missiles
and nuclear warheads a month and and we're going to have to throw billions
of dollars at that production here in the United States. And they're going to throw billions of
dollars and they're going to turn around and just what happened with the Chips Act. They're going to
be like, oh, we threw billions of dollars, but we don't have the industrial capacity to do it.
You can pay people all the money in the world in the United States, and they still don't know how to make
nuclear warheads anymore. And we don't have any idea how to make hypersonic missiles.
And all that, you know, like the world of private equity and the artificial fires economy is going to be the death of America.
And the only way to force that into harsh reality is to say, okay, military industrial complex,
you're not going to operate on lies, international law and reputation anymore.
You better get to work as if a war is actually coming. And when that happens,
the United States is going to have to come back to the table and say, you know, we can't actually
keep up with you, with all of your militaries. And we damn sure can't keep up with Russia and
China at the same time. And then if we want to throw Iranian drones on the table too, well,
we're fucked. So we better like learn to be nice and learn to keep our word and learn to stay in our lane.
Boom. We're discussing the Bitcoin scandal.
I'm tweeting it out, inviting some people in.
Who knows who's going to walk in?
We're going to keep it running, though, if anyone wants to come up up and chat throw their thoughts out uh what does it all mean what does it mean
for ethereum what does it mean for cheer what does it mean for bitcoin what's it mean for the world
there's so so many questions but uh that's what this platform is for give people a chance so
it is recorded so if you're unsure don't say anything because it's on the record essentially. But yeah,
I wonder what else, what other angles we could look at it from. I was kind of running through
the history of Bitcoin. I got as far as 2014, as far as when Epstein started to try and hijack it
through money, through Brock Pearson, people like that, and then the foundation. So the inverse of
that would be a decentralized foundation that takes care of it, essentially, that isn't in the shadows.
So that's kind of, I think that's the direction that we should go
is to just more spaces, more Bitcoin, more talk of it.
The truth comes out in the light.
I think that's really important.
So, yeah, digital.
I mean, I'm sure that most people know you in the world by now, but why don't you give us a quick introduction for the people who have just come in?
You're interviewing senators on the timeline, like real people, if that makes sense.
Like, you're on the road. You seem to be building farms, and I don't know, you seem to have like a true Americana story, but would you like to give an introduction to the people who have just come in? Okay. Yeah. I'm guessing I'm looking at who's in here and I think
almost everybody in here I follow and they follow me already. So I'd be surprised if,
if anything I say is new, but yeah. So I'm almost 60 years old. I have been a U.S. citizen my whole life. I've traveled a limited amount around the world, but I've traveled through most of this country.
learn social media, state, House, and Senate members.
And I managed 355 races, elections and re-elections,
over a four-year stretch,
and we won almost 100% of our races.
So I created a pretty good relationship
with this group of people.
Most of them, though, are farmers and real estate salesmen
and just regular folks that decided to run for office.
None of them are celebrities, none of them are for office. None of them are celebrities.
None of them are special.
Almost all of them are ultimately controlled by the lobbyists
because the lobbyists control the money flow into the elections,
and they're afraid of them.
And so that's unfortunate.
But I'm using this connection right now
to see if we can't improve the understanding of crypto.
What is it? Why does it have value?
And what is that value amongst state legislators so that when they're writing policy, it can be good policy and not just, oh, let's get a crypto reserve because that's stupid.
If you believe the white paper of Satoshi, then you don't want governments involved in crypto and you don't want banks involved in crypto.
So the kind of legislation that I want to see is, for instance, no state taxes on crypto.
You can't do it at a federal level because it's been called a commodity and there are
taxes on commodities and you're not going to get Congress to step away from that spigot
of potential money.
Or what do you do with the crypto that's on your
books now that you took in a drug seizure or some sort of seizure or that you inherited because
there was no next of kin? Those are problems that they really do have today. But those are
ways of, I call it kicking a clod, right? You don't shoot or kick for the uprights from the
other end of the field,
you're almost certainly going to fail.
But if we can just start to get pro-crypto legislators in office,
then that's a good thing for all of us.
And so that's one of the things I'm doing. The other thing that I'm doing is I created using AI a model for fair value for crypto.
And so the question, you know, what is crypto?
Well, it's decentralized computers that have something on them called a wallet that holds something called a coin that is kept track of on a ledger that is shared by all of these computers.
And that's all it is at the end of the day that's
all it is and it's decentralized so you can't easily shut it down because as long as it's
alive on two computers somewhere in the world it's still running and so you can't really shut
it down and so that's great um but at the end of the day whether whether it's Chia creating gaming or digital assets or whether it's Ravencoin with NFTs or whether it's Digibyte with five types of proof of work and now the Digidollar or Monero with its inherent privacy built right in or ZClassic where you can choose one or the other i don't really like z cash but it doesn't matter what extra
attributes you have multiverse x near internet computer we like all of these but at the end of
the day what all of them every one of them has in common is that they are decentralized wallets
that have a native coin that you can send fractionally to one another and it's kept
track of on a ledger so there is immutable and there's no double spend or counterfeiting the big thing that i'm going to do
that i believe is going to change crypto and i really really do hope that this will be the
decoupling from bitcoin and the savior frankly although i am in it for the money i i'm running
a fund like a venture capitalist i expect to make money on the management fee, but I expect mainly to make money on the success fee of my investors,
is that we are raising $1 billion. It is going to be tokenized. This essentially an index fund
of coins will be tokenized on the Chia blockchain. And Bram Cohen and Gene Hoffman are helping me in
that. They're not partners, make that clear,
this is not their fund.
They are simply the facilitators
of the tokenization of this fund,
which will be tradable as a security
amongst accredited investors after a year and a day.
My ultimate goal here is that we're going to go in there
and stop the bleeding,
meaning that the first fund is $1 billion. We'll be going after
20,000 money managers nationally to get non-accredited or credited investors into these
funds. The first billion, $800 million, will be put into 12 coins, so about $65 million per coin.
put into 12 coins, so about $65 million per coin.
Chia has a valuation right now of like $80 million or whatever, so it doesn't mean we're
going to come in and buy 75% of Chia.
It means that when we start taking up all the asks, it's probably going to go closer
to its fair value that we estimate is closer to $10 or $15 billion currently, but will
go much higher as gaming takes off and
the funds and the digital asset part takes off. So if we're successful, we will do 65 million in
each of these coins. Almost all of these are at all time lows, even though they're the OG amazing
coins with real great communities and real great core teams. They're legit. And the other $200
million is going to be put into getting every one of these on every DEX that we can and every
mobile wallet that we can. And specifically, these mobile wallets will only get funding from us
if they list all these coins first. But number two, and most probably important,
they need to integrate with current point-of-sale devices such as Verifone that has an API so that, you know, when Apple Pay, you know, taps on it, Apple Pay didn't change the way Verifone acts.
Apple Pay uses the API of Verifone.
And so if we go after the top 10 point of sale devices in the world we'll cover almost
the whole world and if these apis are then built into the wallets that we support then you don't
have to teach the merchant how to take crypto they'll they just they already have the machine
we will do the work with the mobile wallets so that when you go and spend crypto, the DEXs will
exchange it in the background and they'll just get U.S. dollars or euros or whatever
it is that they take.
And should we be successful in this?
And by success, I'm not at all sad, sorry, I'm not, that all of these coins are hitting
all-time lows because you buy when there's blood in the streets. And it gives us the best chance of having a real strong upside to our funds for our investors.
And should we just get a 2 or 3 or 4x, which is almost obviously going to happen if we can stick
that much money into each coin, we will have no trouble selling out fund two for $5 billion to
the same people, and then stick $4 billion, which is about three hundred and so million dollars into each coin and again it doesn't mean
we're going to buy up all the coin we're just going to drive them closer their cfv and then
we'll stick a billion into cf to the point of sales and marketing in that and then the final
fund should be successful and get a multiplier on that may sell the hedge funds it may not but
it'll ultimately be 15 billion where we'll $12 billion or about a billion dollars into each coin.
And we will stick $3 billion into the final push into these point-of-sale services.
So ultimately, if we're completely successful, we'll stick $4 billion into point-of-s sale and DEXs and mobile wallets.
And we'll stick about $17 billion into a lockup on Chia blockchain.
Those coins will be locked literally forever.
No shenanigans, no loaning against them or anything like that.
Tradable after a year and a day.
And then ultimately tradable on the Chia blockchain forever.
And so I hope that is my opus, my crowning achievement in my life.
And at that point, I've got a baby due in eight months now, seven months.
I'll just be able to spend a lot of time getting old, raising a boy.
You're in tremendous shape for being, was it three months pregnant congratulations yeah i wish i could say that my wife was feeling the same she's
she's vomiting and can't keep any food down and running fevers and you know it's
no fun for her but i am here to take care of her in between doing all my work.
You work a serious week, man.
It seems like you're doing about four full-time things.
I'm doing about one full-time thing, but I don't know how you find the time, but amazing.
Thanks.
It's a juggling act, and you just hope the balls don't hit the ground. However, I did just recruit two dozen people that are working with me now to go after the legislators and the money managers.
And DigiByte's Jared Tate, who is an AI expert, has put together what he calls Legidex and also Investidex,
which will help us by using AI to contact, first of all, all the second of all all the money managers and the money managers are really an easy sale because we're really just contacting them
saying hey listen in your state we'll have non-accredited investors that want to buy the fund
would you be interested in taking on new clients and of course they're going to say yes but now
they're in we got the hook set so um without Jared Tate and his AI, it would have
been a much greater task. But I think that with the people coming on, and that seems to be growing,
I'd like to hope that we can have 100 people working for us within the next three months,
helping us complete these tasks. Wow. That was 100x right there. Massive.
Wow, that was 100x right there.
Massive.
Kepa, I think, is back on the stage.
His microphone wasn't working right.
It was too silent or something.
Let's see if we can hear him now, and I'll take a break.
No, keep it rolling, man.
Welcome back to the stage.
Don't go on a break, because I mean, I don't go on a break, man.
It's a little bit better still a
little bit boomy but uh welcome back okay thank you thank you thank you don't go on a break come
on i'm actually learning from what you're saying because i actually have a lot i'm doing now
juggling a lot of things ain't that easy Yeah, I'd love to ask, how long have you been kind of traveling around meeting the senators
face-to-face digital? Because, I mean, it's one thing to network with people, but it's another
thing to basically meet them face to face. So I'm curious
how long you've done that for. Well, so from 2010 to 2014, I traveled through 23 states and that was
just me and my, my dog and my car. And we traveled this time around because I have a pregnant wife,
I'm flying in and flying out everywhere. I won't be driving.
So I'm going to be flying down at 6 a.m. Monday morning,
and I will hit the Arizona Senate.
I'll be back here Wednesday night.
Thursday I'll be with Senator,
and that'll be Senator Mark Fincham hosting me there.
And then Marv Hagedorn, Senator in Idaho,
I'll be working with him in the Idaho Capitol Thursday and Friday.
And then I'll head down to Utah,
where Representative Lee Perry and I work together in 10 to 14. He'll walk me through there. And then
I'll go down to New Mexico with Representative Bill Rehm. And then I'll go out to Oregon with
Senator Sal Esquivel. And then I'll head out to Oklahoma with Representative Justin Wood.
And it's just sort of using old contacts to walk me by the hand into the Senate and the House chambers so that I
don't have to knock on a door and be like, hey, can I talk to you for five minutes? But no, no,
no, that's the cold. I did the cold call when I was younger in 2010. Now, this time around,
I'll get warm introductions. They'll already know I'm coming and I'll be doing that for probably four
months.
At four months,
I should have been able to cover all 50 States and five territories.
That's the goal.
Hitting two States every month or every week,
rather.
This is a movie right here.
This is a movie.
If David Lynch was still alive,
this is sort of like
that sort of level traveling around. I thought about doing a Netflix, you know, kind of biography
and just see if Netflix would pick it up only because it would be a sales tool for the fund
that if I finished this and now I'm raising the fund that I could use a Netflix special movie,
like a 90-minute, two-hour movie, to literally tell the whole world what I'm doing
and if they want to invest in the tokens representing these coins,
and here's the reason why.
So I may still do that.
It's not a terrible idea.
Tremendous marketing as well.
If you've got a film traveling around netflix you don't know
who's watching it at any point it's like a message with an infinite number of ears almost
well limited to the number of people in the world but uh we've got a film team infinitely do this
and i would give them the full rights to the to the movie that we would make uh just because
of the marketing value 100 100% agree with you.
So Hollywood is taking a real bullet to the head in the revelation.
So independent media is going to be more sought after because I don't think studios are going to build it
and there's just more and more demand for hours, right?
So it stands a very strong chance of getting picked up immediately.
I don't know why it wouldn't.
And the fact is, I don't even think it needs to be sold.
I would give it to them for free because I couldn't pay for that kind of marketing.
Okay, well, I do have a thought on that one.
And that's the thing where if someone doesn't pay for something,
yeah, so even if you sold it for a dollar which is obviously I'm not saying
that's what it's worth but that would be more likely for them to use it but like it'd have to
be an amount of money but what I'm saying is I'm giving away the rights to make any money and I'll
leave that to the film creators and let them go and negotiate the deals because they already have
the connections there anyway but I have no interest in making money from that.
I'll make money if my funds do well.
Yeah, it's a great idea.
Yeah, good to see everyone in the room.
Anyone wants to come up, please join us.
Yeah.
You got to understand, like, the way a 2-in-20 fund works in venture capital language.
That means you collect 2% annually.
Typically, it's a half a percent per quarter for 10 years.
And then most of your companies that you've invested in have either gone public, gone out of business, or been rolled up into another company.
But then you liquidate, essentially, and you give the money back to your partners,
limited partners that put up typically around $10 million each,
and then you're going to get 20% of any profit minus the management fees,
of course, being taken out first.
And so the way we're doing this on Chia is they're creating a new token
that will drop in a year and a day after the fund.
So this token has not been created yet by Chia,
but they say that's still plenty of time for them to get it done.
And so then essentially every single time that token trades for the next 10 years,
if there is a profit by the people that bought the token,
I get 20%.
My management team does.
And so if we're ridiculously successful
and $21 billion total invested by the investors, 10Xs, let's just say, my cut's $42 billion, $42,000 million.
So I don't need to make money on a film.
If that film will give me marketing to get the tokens sold and trading, that to me has the greatest upside potential.
I certainly could just never,
unless I created Star Wars.
Even then, I don't think George Lucas
ever made that kind of money.
So, you know, I'm a capitalist
and this is an opportunity, that's all.
I'm not Robin Hood.
I'm not in this for altruistic purposes,
just to be clear.
I want to be clear about that. I'm a capitalist and I'm in this to make money, but not on the film.
Digital, when you're talking to senators or reps from the states,
do any of them ever say, how can we use crypto to make our own state money?
Yeah, I think that that's a really, really bad idea.
Mark Fincham wanted that to happen.
He had legislation in Arizona that was vetoed by Governor Hobbs,
where he said that the Treasury should have the right to,
not that it has to, put 3% of the Treasury into,
and I think they have $35 billion, into crypto. I'm glad it didn't pass.
When I sat down with treasurer Julie Ellsworth in Idaho, I asked her about crypto because she was
actually my first client when I was doing social media management, campaign management back in 2010.
And Julie said, John, I can tell you right now that Brad, that's the governor,
isn't going to sign off on any of that. And I personally, unless I'm forced to do it by the
legislators, by the legislation, I would absolutely never do that. She manages $11 billion. She said,
if I even put 1% of our money into it, that's $110 million. There's no way I'm going to be that reckless.
And I understand because she is an elected official. And if she put money into Bitcoin at
$110,000 a coin, and now it's a midterm election cycle, let's say she was up for election this year,
which I don't know that she is. I think it's a four-year term. And she runs with the governor in that. But her opponent would bludgeon her with it.
They'd be like, how reckless. She put it in at $110,000, $110 million. That's now we're 66
million. Can you imagine what we could have done with $44 million and she squandered it on crypto and she'd lose her election.
Also, she may want to go into the private sector after she's done as treasurer.
But more telling was that she said, John, I am in a group with 22 other treasurers.
And between us, we have over 50% of all money in state treasuries nationwide.
And I can tell you that there is no one in that group that is going to do this.
And if legislators do it, they don't understand what they're doing, and they're doing it for campaign contributions and votes at the ballot booth.
But they don't even know what crypto is.
So I'm of the opinion right now that states should stay the hell out of crypto. Maybe stable
coins, as you were saying, trying to rebalance books in that. Idaho Constitution has a rule
that you cannot go over budget. You cannot run a debt. And so we are much more fiscally
responsible here in Idaho than in other states. But I think that this whole idea of Bitcoin reserves and crypto reserves
is only speculators, not spenders, because that's the real use of crypto after all.
But it's 99% speculators who are like, oh, yeah, if they buy that,
it creates more scarcity.
And so the coins will go up in value.
So we want states and nations to buy as much of this
crypto as they can to create more scarcity and seeming demand i think it's crazy full stop
well that model it's not in the ethos of crypto at all well i guess I 100% agree with you there. And I think it's a long stretch. But
what I look forward to someday is a state that says the supply of the dollars is out of our
control. They rely on the mechanism of price theory to lie to us while they inflate the currency.
Our subjects in our state, the people of the state are being robbed by the federal
government. And so we are going to pool the money, the dollars that come into the state
and act as an interlocutor. And we're going to pool them and we're going to create a coin
based on them. And that will be used as the coin of the realm of, say, Oklahoma.
And then we will assess and set the exchange rate for, say, the Okie dollar as opposed to trade against the federal dollar.
to trade against the federal dollar.
Right.
So if you know the history of money, which I'm sure you do, states at one point did all
have their own currencies, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Delaware.
They all had their own currency.
And it ran into a lot of different problems, counterfeiting just being one.
But, you know, or continental currency, which was not the same as colonial script, which was Benjamin
Franklin's, which was over-collateralized with real estate, where you could buy half the value
of your land in these notes called colonial script, the back of which said, counterfeiting
is death. But you had 15 years then to pay that back. And in the meantime, this was simply nothing but a stopgap
because at the time, gold and silver coinage,
was literally the only currency in the colonies.
And the problem with that species currency
is that the boats would arrive at the docks
with gunpowder and guns and cloth
and things that the colonies needed.
And it would leave with all their gold and silver.
It wasn't trade, it was for sale. And so there wasn't enough species currency
in the colonies to conduct a vibrant economy. You couldn't conduct commerce. And so Franklin's
idea was to create this paper money backed by land so that they could survive now he was off playing chess with the king of
france so the story goes and the king of england comes down and says to franklin why is it that
the colonies are thriving so well and he said oh because of my paper fiat money and it's not fiat
but it's back sorry i shouldn't said fiat my my colonial script and so the king of england said
no absolutely not you cannot have any currency that doesn't have my face on it and that isn't gold and silver.
And it was pulled and the currency, the colonies fell into despair and into depression, economic depression.
And I think that was truly, the Currency Act was truly what caused the Revolutionary War, not a Tea Party in the harbor of Boston.
Now, that said, back to your point, having states have their own currency is a non-starter
because it's literally not allowed.
It is literally not allowed.
And legal tender also isn't really allowed except in a national emergency like Lincoln
had with the greenback printing.
But that said, I agree with you 100% that we should have competing currencies,
although we're not allowed to call them currencies.
They've got to be commodities, according to the law, legal tender laws and that.
And so the good senator from Alaska, Jesse Keel, who was on last week,
said, John, look, rather than trying to pass laws saying, let's do this, let the people just decide
because aren't we the people in charge of the government who are simply our servants,
who are supposed to be acting on our behalf to give us life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?
Therefore, just do it.
Just start spending it like money, which is what I'm trying to do with the Point of Sales devices,
is don't get a law made. Don't get states involved. Just let the people start spending it as money
and seeing it as money until it just becomes so. so um well i i i agree i i agree um let the people do it um i just i guess i wondered if
there was movements within the states and i I also understand that it's explicitly against the Constitution.
But, I mean, how many clauses and how have we twisted the meaning of the Constitution so far already?
States aren't doing it.
Absolutely not doing it.
And that goes back to what you said, brother.
You said the states are, you didn't use these words, but the states are on the nipple of the Fed.
And if you don't do what they say, they're going to turn off federal dollars. I think Idaho gets
$1.3 billion annually from the Fed. And this is one of the reasons they won't stand up against
them. When we look at federal lands, everything east of the Mississippi was returned to states,
but not west of the Mississippi. Out here in Idaho and Utah, Nevada, the federal government controls like 65% of our land
and the natural resources within it that are worth trillions of dollars.
Except that if we say those are ours, turn them over, we're not going to look at you
any longer as the legal owner of these lands, we lose $1.3 billion a year.
And nobody's willing to make that move. Because just like you said, we're essentially on a dull.
You know, I lived in western Colorado in a town surrounded for 150 miles in all directions by
federal land. And we were robbed. I was on the town board, worked with the county a lot too.
We don't set our own taxes on the land.
The government, which can't set the taxes, pays pilt, payment in lieu of taxes.
Now, isn't that a beautiful word?
Isn't that?
Yeah, it's amazing the dancing that they get around the Constitution,
around all of those agreements.
But something to put on your radar and then I've got to run.
Edward, I've got dogs who are hollering here,
and I've got Domino Night coming up.
But Digital, have you heard of Demurrage or Silvio Giselle?
Check out, as well-versed in monetary theory
and the history of money in America, look up Silvio Giselle.
Because after – he was an Austrian economist, ended up dying in Argentina.
But it was his ideas that would lead into Henry George.
And Henry George sort of ran in his own direction.
But Silvio Giselle created a currency in a little town in Austria after World War I.
It was called the Wargold currency.
And it was a local town currency.
And here's the thing.
It melted like a commodity.
You know, what's the difference between commodities and securities?
Farmer Me says commodities rot, securities rust.
Commodities, you know, what's the difference between rot and rust?
The time.
Going back to understanding interest as the price of time,
the rate of burn on the value of a coin
very much changes the way that people behave.
And so when you have something that looks like a security, people hold it, hodl.
If you have something that actually looks like a commodity and has demurrage,
well, they want to get rid of it before it decreases in value.
And voila, if you can begin to control who is coming in and out of your free city,
then you can set up a very vibrant economy.
Can you spell the name?
S-I-L-V-I-O-G-E-S-E-L-L.
Silvio Giselle.
Got him.
I'm just grokking him so that when you hang up, I'll still have that.
I will absolutely review that. I will, I will absolutely
review that. I love learning. And, um, I've got a book coming out that covers, uh, pretty much
everything that I talked about tonight, but, um, it is, uh, it is always worth adding another chapter
if there's somebody interesting to talk about and then something to consider and maybe reference. So thank you for that. All right. Well, I had a blast. Nice to meet you, Digital. Yeah, I followed you, by the way.
I'd love you to come on my podcast and have another discussion. Maybe come on with a Sunday
with the senators and give them, you know, give them a lesson or tale.
Wow.
Okay.
I haven't spoken with any senators, so I don't know. Remember, they're just real estate agents and cattle ranchers at the end of the day.
That badge they wear, it comes up for renewal every two years to four years and six years
if they're U.S. Senate.
But really, at the end of the day, they're celebrities only so long as they're in office,
and the moment they leave office, nobody even remembers them.
They're just regular people.
You'll enjoy it.
And again, I say this because you will educate them.
These are typically just school teachers and real estate agents
and people that don't know much about anything,
but they ran for office.
Well, I am hell-bent on political change,
so I'll talk to you for sure. Thank, I am hell-bent on political change, so I'll talk
to you for sure. Thank you for the invitation.
Have a great night.
Wow, what
an end, Lucas. I could hear the
smile in his voice when he
replied. That was
amazing.
This is one of those 1,000x
changes in one
minute kind of thing.
Super smart guy.
Like Lucas, imagine.
Sorry, say again.
He's a super smart guy.
I just love geniuses.
I just do it.
I love them.
They gravitate to the stage.
Seriously, they do.
It's because they're confident enough to know that they're pretty smart,
but because they're idealist introverts,
it needs someone like you to basically say it.
So yeah, Lucas is a genius.
Shout out to Lucas.
Well, and we all have our geniuses.
Mondo Monkey is a genius.
Kepper, you have a question, and then, guys, I've got to run.
Lucas, I gave you a follow, man.
Thank you, Kepper.
All right, night, everybody.
Have a good night, Lucas.
Good to meet you.
Go to my head, and I'll lose money on Domino's.
So shame on y'all.
Thank you, though.
Have a good night, Lucas.
And Lucas is the host of the FOMO show as well.
I don't think he said that.
Most people probably know it, but FOMO.
I think they do daily episodes, and they're on Twitter as well as also archived on YouTube.
So check out FOMO with Lucas and Grant.
Shout out to them.
Well, is it?
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, please go ahead.
Anything you wanted out of my brain before I head off into the sunset?
sorry maybe i misunderstood could you say that i thought you said
do i want to hear something is there anything mind blowing anything else you wanted to pull
out of my brain in the way of a question before i head off to the sunset i've got to meet the
yeah for sure 30 minutes and i'm just standing here doing dishes for the time that I'm talking to you guys.
Yeah, well, very interested in the book. What's the title? When's it out and when can we get it?
Yeah, so it's just a boring title right now. I'll probably give it a new title. It's just
Crypto Fair Value. And it just is the history of money in the Americas and the rise of digital
money, like, you know, Diners Club was the first, but credit cards and that then through to the
cypherpunks and hash cash and digicash and e-money and, you know, Linden dollars and BitTorrent coming
on the scene and, you know, reusable proof of stake and all these leading up to Bitcoin. And then, you know, Litecoin and Dogecoin and Ripple and Digibyte and Dash,
which was Darkcoin and, you know, Blackcoin, which first proof of stake and just leading all the way
up through and then understanding money in general and understanding, you know, legal tender and all
these things, you know, of course, going through the colonies and everything
with the history of money in America,
but ultimately then ending with why does it have value
and what is that value and is it possible to discern the value
of other crypto based on any kind of a benchmark,
which I call the digital gold standard benchmark.
And that is to say, if you know who Benjamin Graham is,
he wrote a book called The Intelligent Investor in 1947.
And that book essentially said that stocks shouldn't just trade on FOMO and FUD,
which up to that point they had.
And that, in fact, there should be true fundamentals underneath it
that you could
easily track and understand so that investors could come back into the market. Because even
up to 1947, there really hadn't been a return to the stock market in any kind of euphoric way
like there was up to 29. And so he came up with this benchmark, which was the 10-year treasury.
We'd just come out of World War II, victorious. Treasury
bonds were great. There was no debt on the books of America. And he said, you know, if you could
put your money in a tax-free asset like a bond, why would you put it into equities unless you have
a generally good idea that it's going to outperform? And so he looked at earnings and said,
if over the course of 10 years, you collected the earnings off of a stock and those were yours, they're not, but if they were, would you outpace
what you got in a 10-year treasury? And so ultimately what it became was P price of a stock
called $10 divided by E, let's call it earnings, $1 per share, 10 divided by one, P divided by E is
equal to 10. If the growth rate of earnings year over
year is going to be 10% annually, then that's fair value. And if the earnings next year are 20%,
then it's half price. And if the earnings next year are going to be less than 10, then it's
overpriced. And that literally became the way that Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway,
Peter Lynch with Fidelity Magellan,
these guys became very, very wealthy just using that model.
And then Google and these others come along, and they don't have any earnings.
So P divided by what? There's nothing there.
And so Amazon instead buys Zappos or Whole Foods or whatever.
So it became the free cash flow ratio. It would have been
earnings, but you didn't want to pay taxes on it. Instead, you wanted to expand your bottom line
and top lines. And so it became the free cash flow ratio. But there's nothing like that for
crypto. So I developed that. And the book explains what that is. And that's why I say
Chia, for instance, is worth $10 to $15 billion.
Because it just is. If Bitcoin has a formula, for instance, the digital gold standard benchmark was made in December of 24 when Bitcoin hit $1.983 trillion with 19.83 million coins at 100,000
coins. The number of coins is cosmetic. We're looking at really just the cap,
the market cap. And so if you look at the market cap and say 1.983 trillion, and you say, well,
100 billion floating in December of 24 by supposedly the savviest minds on Wall Street,
BlackRock and the rest, then let's just agree that that's the value. Let's just put a pin in
it there. But as I quote Thoreau to say,
may you build your dreams in the heavens for that's where they belong,
but put a foundation under them.
So what was the foundation?
And we say 70% of the value of any coin is its number of users.
Not necessarily using it for spending.
Most are using it for speculation. But if you can figure out non-zero balances and duplicate wallets
and what's a scam exchange versus a good exchange, et cetera. We think there were about 80 million users of Bitcoin in 24.
And we think they did about 6 billion in transactions, which is 10% of the value.
And we think what they did about 13 and a half trillion in true transactions, not wash trades
and the rest. And that's 10% of the value. And then we look at the developer ecosystem,
keeping the core stuff safe, but also building a new utility to drive further adoption.
And so ultimately, then, if Bitcoin wants to go to 200,000, in our estimation, it needs to go to 160 million users, 12 billion transactions, 27 trillion in transaction value, and 1,800 developers.
If Bitcoin was to fall to 40 million users and 3 billion transactions and 6.75 trillion in transaction value and 450 developers, then it should be worth half price, if not less, because it's falling.
million and you get a fraction and multiply that times 1.983 trillion, which is the digital gold
standard benchmark value, you come up with about 17 billion, I think it is. And then you factor in
other things like the developer ecosystem transaction, transaction value being much
lower than Bitcoin. And that drags it down a bit. We think it's probably worth around 12 or 15
billion. And that's it. If you have 10% of the value of Bitcoin and adoption in that,
why aren't you worth 10% of the value of Bitcoin?
As of December of 24, of course, not tracking it as we go.
So anyway, that's the book.
You don't have to buy it now.
I just told you.
Yeah, if ever there was a week that caused a rethink, do you have to write another chapter, this is definitely it.
So, yeah, shake-up effect.
Something I was curious about was have the senators been vocal since the revelations?
Are they surprised and all that?
The legislators in the U.S. Senate probably aren't at all surprised about the Epstein list because I'm guessing most of their names are.
I think that's Mossad and it's to compromise our politicians to get them to bend at the will of whoever owns those lists and owns those files. So now ultimately, I think that this is all kabuki theater.
I'll come back and end there.
I think that the Epstein list is something that came out to either get people to feel
really bad about crypto because they've now got their CBDC in the way of the stablecoin
tether, et cetera, backed by treasuries that nobody wanted to buy.
I think they got what they needed, and they don't care about Bitcoin anymore.
And so now they're tarnishing its reputation to the nth degree
by saying that this is pedo money, this is evil incarnate,
you couldn't get more evil, nobody should want Bitcoin.
And, you know, as I say, if all cows are purple and Bessie
is a cow, Bessie is purple. Well, if Bitcoin goes down, all coins go down. And if Wall Street
controls Bitcoin, Wall Street controls all coins. And so they may have already shorted this and this
is just them killing it and driving it now down into the earth and creating all-time new lowest for every
coin and literally ultimately trying to kill it now because why else would they attach some
scumbag like Epstein to this um or it was just a way to flash the right hand so we didn't see
that they took 15 trillion out of the silver market and gold market with potentially fraudulent contracts that didn't really exist.
Naked shorts, if you will, like GameStop.
But I don't have a crystal ball, and mine is all speculation right now.
Yeah, we're all doing that, I guess.
Lots of speculation.
And I guess it's going to continue.
So, yeah, there'll be more chat. I might host another
space. I know it's quite a good time to host a space for me. I might host a space next week. I'll
see, see how it goes. But yeah, thanks so much for coming up digital and sharing it and everything
you do as well. Appreciate it. I love it. And thank you for inviting me tonight. I had a blast.
I didn't think I'd have this much fun, but Lucas, boy, oh, boy. Yeah. He was a lot of fun.
Lucas is like the perfect person to come up on stage because he always makes it interesting and you get interesting topics.
So, yeah, concur.
May we all live in interesting times.
Have a good night, my brother.
Good night, everybody out there.
Good night.
Good night, Shia family.
Love you guys.
We'll see you.
Bye.
Goodbye, Digital.
Yeah, well, it's, what, three hours going into the four, so I'll probably
wind it down now. If anyone wants to come up and, I guess, chat at the end, then please do. This is
recorded, though, so be aware of that. It's a bit of a sensitive topic. I think that the best that I
can see right now is that the files have been released. There's more files come. What's it all
mean? What does it mean for power? I think that World War one and two are probably fake in the
sense that, uh, I think that this elite has been around a lot longer than 20 years. So it probably
means World War one and two are crimes against humanity straight away. The other side of it
is none of us would be alive if those world wars hadn't happened. So there's like a strange thing
because of reproduction and all sperm and, you know, millions of sperm, billions of sperm and
all that. One little change in history would have changed everything, unless it's a simulation,
that's a different argument. but there's no survivor's
guilt you can't help what happened in history but if world war one and two hadn't happened we
wouldn't be here so that's an interesting way to look at it but at the same time i do think that
this elite has been doing this for so long that it has to be 9-11 it has to be as well it's not
going to be a separate incident we're looking at major dominoes falling,
moon landings are fake. What does that mean? Well, it's to be discussed. So it's all open
there. It's all out in the open. So what does it all mean? And I'm really not sure. Are there
shape-shifting lizards? I honestly don't think so. Sounds ridiculous. So I think the line is just there's a secret society that eats babies so with
that end on that so yeah thanks for coming everyone and what does it mean for bitcoin i think the
world owes it to satoshi to take the name back at least to get the truth out i don't think it's
linked to epstein outside of it wasaged, and the files have revealed that.
So with that being said, much love, everyone.
More spaces soon.
Keep moving to the light.
Love is a wavelength.
Much love.
Bye-bye. Thank you.
