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BITCOIN SUMMER 2025: EtherFi + Neutron
Recorded: June 26, 2025 Duration: 1:01:39Space Recording
Short Summary
Neutron's Bitcoin Summer campaign is set to revolutionize the DeFi landscape with strategic partnerships, including a collaboration with EtherFi, and the launch of new tokens like EBTC. This initiative aims to provide real yield opportunities for Bitcoin holders, signaling a significant growth phase for the ecosystem.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Hello, hello.
Happy to be back in the mix here. I know I've missed the last couple.
Yeah, man, welcome back. Good to have you here with the sweet jazz voice for the Bitcoin Summer Series.
This one goes out to all you summertime ladies out there.
We're gonna be talking about Bitcoin summer, of course.
One of the hottest summers you've ever experienced, ladies and gentlemen.
You're on the East Coast.
Maybe you've experienced temperatures in the 100 degrees plus Fahrenheit.
And of course, that's because it is Bitcoin summer.
Brought to you exclusively by Neutron.
to you exclusively by neutral.
No, really, that is why I heard it was so hot.
My neighbor's a meteorologist, and I was like, man, this year's been really crazy with the
weather.
You know, he makes them all talk with normies.
And he said, yeah, he said, something's going on with Bitcoin summer.
And that's why it's been so hot.
We brought the heat wave.
The heat wave that passed over Europe and the heat wave that passed over the US was brought on by Neutron's Bitcoin summer.
Yeah, Zion was telling me the other day it was like 103 degrees in Jersey.
Like, don't go outside, buddy.
That sounds shitty.
Oh, sorry for doxing where you were
at one point in time zion it was hot as a bitch i can tell you that
yeah it's been warm but hey you know what we've been bringing the heat on our end too so
i'm just pumped that we finally made the announcement i was on vacation last week
i was deep on a vision quest in the woods and uh and i missed the the announcement of bitcoin summer
finally so happy to see that that caught some traction and i was happy to be here for the uh
the etherfy announcement this week which seems to have uh lit a couple eyes up and you know
all i can say is there's definitely going to be more announcements
as this campaign continues.
So this is an announcement of those announcements.
We got some heaters on the pipeline.
I already let them know on the timeline.
We got plenty coming.
Also, I don't know if I missed anything.
I just got my audio working in case I missed the intros.
But how are we doing, guys?
Happy official start to bitcoin summer
now that we made it past the solstice
yeah happy bitcoin summer we were just talking about the heat waves and how it's actually
bitcoin summer bringing in the heat and uh yeah if there's any if there's any of uh our community
in the uk here i know it's i know it's really tough for you guys whenever the temperature
goes a little above room temp over there.
I hope it's okay.
It's tough.
People just, they're not built for that in the UK.
But anyway, how are we doing, Zion?
How are you, man?
Yeah, good.
Obviously not enjoying the historic high temperatures
that we've been seeing here in New York, New Jersey area recently.
It was literally like a historic high this week.
It was over 100 degrees in Jersey which is pretty pretty insane
that's wild since i missed last week um i would love for uh for a little recap of of what's going
on here with bitcoin summer because even though sometimes i'm in the know uh maybe i don't get
all the details passed along to me.
You know, I'm just at the bottom of the totem pole over here in Neutron World.
And, you know, one of the things that I've been listening to people on the airwaves and discussing with people, you know,
if you look at the headlines around crypto, especially as of late, it seems like, you know, Bitcoin has become this household name and there's all these companies that are like acquiring it and their company treasuries and hoarding it for lack of a better term.
And, you know, you've got the ETF. So, of course, you know, grandma can go and get her exposure to the ETF via her brokerage account, which is great.
You know, always great to let grandma get some exposure to the digital
cryptocurrency that the Zoomers and millennials have been talking about for the last 10 years.
And then you've got these other companies like Jack Maulers, who's kind of, I think they're
copying the strategy of micro strategy, which is this, you know, issue debt to a public company,
and then take that money and buy Bitcoin with it.
And it's interesting because, you know, one, nobody's nobody in that scenario is actually
custodying Bitcoin except for the private company.
And two, there's a lot of leverage going on with that model.
You know, should we ever reach a point where the micro cap of micro strategy uh should take a huge
hit um there they would be forced to sell a lot of bitcoin so i'm not sure if i love that model
as the future of finance is the future of this currency that you know i've been following for
for quite a while now i've been an advocate of it for quite a while and uh so i'm really just hoping like bitcoin summer
can be at least from neutron's perspective can be you know uh an option for self-custody and
an option for people to actually go out there and sort of control their own destiny uh and not have
to go talk to you know the suits so to speak in order to earn some yield on their bitcoin
so to speak, in order to earn some yield on their Bitcoin.
I would like that point, Pantera.
Yeah, I mean, it's a good distinction to make
between institutional investment
versus just institutional hyper leverage.
I'm kind of a fan of both, but then, yeah,
at some point it does raise questions to edge cases
and where that takes us i also think of uh
ryan cohen i think yeah game stop i don't know how how much you guys pay attention to him in
that company but he's he's also doing just a ton of just just a ton of company bitcoin buys and
you know this is a giant this is gme this is the super stock and they just they just stay buying
more and more and so yeah the balance sheets do kind of rest on it but I don't know is the strategy of these public companies to to buy
Bitcoin and then like okay market cap go up because Bitcoin went up so as long as we tie ourselves to
that then we have some breathing room to then I don't know issue more issue more debt like is
like what is the point of a company like GameStop?
And maybe GameStop's not a good example
because it's, I mean, it is just a meme, right?
At one point, I think GameStop,
for those of you who are my age,
I'm like the gray hair man on the chat.
But when I was a kid,
they used to have these things called stores,
physical stores, and you would actually walk in
and you would buy CD-ROMs, they were called actually.
And it's like this little round disc and you would actually stick it in your game console.
And, you know, you would wait in line for the latest release. And that was what GameStop was
called. And then that stopped happening. Now you just download a game and it gets served to you
with, you know, 75 different ads every time you fire up your Fortnite that I see
my nephews playing, the experience has definitely changed. But I'm curious, just to get back to the
point, what exactly is the reason that a company that has basically no exposure or relevance with
cryptocurrency, what is the reason for them to acquire Bitcoin in their treasury? What are they
doing there, Clyde? And I'm asking you asking you clad i'm putting you on the spot no i'm here i'm on the spot and uh i'm
totally not reading about it just to confirm my understanding of it as you as you mentioned it
but uh well it's it's from what i'm understanding i mean he it is kind of a carbon copy of uh of
the micro strategy thing where it's it's they're fundraising money to buy bitcoin and then when they raise enough money to
do that any of the extra proceeds is used to buy more bitcoin and they issue notes and return at
a very high level and spoken like a 12 year old that's that's my understanding so it is a little
bit of a yeah i mean they're the issue it's quite literally a leverage loop yeah they actually
they're actually leverage looping the company they're actually leveraged looping the company.
They're leveraged looping, but except in their scenario, they're not leveraged looping with assets that are correlated, right?
It's the market cap of the business versus the market cap of Bitcoin.
Right. I think you got it. Well put. Thanks for that fancy glad we could flesh it out together
happy to answer your questions anytime totally put together doing am i the only old man in the
chat that remembers gamestop like being an actual thing other than a meme i mean oh no man i got i
got fleeced i got i got scammed every other weekend there I would go and trade in my precious video games for like three dollars and twenty cents would be like
you know the original
Whatever Pokemon cartridges were 30 bucks probably selling for 200 now they'd buy for two bucks back in the day
anyway
Well, should we do we want to talk on either ether by guys and talk about the
Talk about the latest and greatest development there?
I don't know if John's in this space properly, but let's get into that.
Yeah, John, should we just dive into it a little bit or what?
Yeah, maybe like a real quick recap of what we announced last week with the Bitcoin Summer
campaign in general and how I can just talk about it really quickly.
So the Bitcoin Summer campaign in general, we've partnered with some of the biggest Bitcoin
issuers in the space and we'll be releasing them little by little as we're seeing EtherFi
is kind of our first big announcement in this situation.
And what we'll be doing is having the first phase, we'll be having vaults in different locations and people will be able to be depositing your Bitcoin into those vaults.
And doing so, we'll be earning a number of different incentives.
And doing so will be earning a number of different incentives.
So those are partner incentives, those are Neutron incentives,
and other partners that we're working on based on Neutron.
And so that's the idea of the Bitcoin summer.
And we can just jump right into the EtherFi announcement.
Yeah, I also wanted to just note that the vaults also don't just earn incentives,
but also lending yields and also super vault market making yield. So yeah, EtherFi, yeah,
this is one of our partners. So if you're not familiar with EtherFi, they're a $6 billion
Etherify. They're a $6 billion liquid restaking project that has a number of different products
covering the Ethereum ecosystem as well as Bitcoin. On the Bitcoin side, they have EBTC.
At the top of the space, you can see the announcement here. In that short blog post that Pantera wrote, you can see a short overview of what EBTC is, which is this sort of Ether5's flagship Bitcoin-backed liquid restaking token.
what EBTC is, is you stake Bitcoin through it and that gets staked through Babylon, which is
a Bitcoin-focused L1 that offers Bitcoin security to, I think, different networks. And then
essentially then they leverage restaking to generate additional yield on EBTC through Eigenlayer,
generate additional yield on EBTC through Eigenlayer, Symbiotic, and Karak.
So as a holder of EBTC, the holders are earning both the staking yield from Babylon as well as
the restaking yield across these other platforms. They don't have to worry about the restaking caps or delegations. Everything's backed one-to-one with LBTC, which is Lombard's
Bitcoin asset. And they work with Lombard for this asset itself. And then you access multiple points programs underneath EBTC as well on top of the staking of the
jurn.
So that's EtherFi, Lombard, Veda, Symbiotic, Karak, and Eigenlayer.
And then what you'll be able to do, so there's going to be an EBTC vault that launches on
Neutron as part of the Bitcoin summer
campaign. So anyone that holds EBTC will be able to deposit that into the vault. And what will
happen is a portion of the EBTC will get lent on Mars. And then another portion will be used to provide single-sided liquidity on the EBTC wrapped BTC super vault
on Neutron's built-in order book decks. And this accomplishes a couple different things.
I mean, one of the focuses of these vaults is to create an ecosystem of real yield opportunities
on Bitcoin, right? That's the ultimate aim of this, right? So we're not just building the vaults is to create an ecosystem of real yield opportunities on Bitcoin.
That's the ultimate aim of this. So we're not just building the vaults in isolation or kind of as standalone products, but in service of this larger vision of really
transforming Bitcoin into a productive asset that can offer its holders real yield and building this ecosystem out
of different opportunities where EBTC, LBTC, like other Bitcoin derivative holders can
earn real yield on their assets on Neutron.
And so in the future, once MaxBTC launches, what will happen is you'll be able to earn a sustainable lending yield on eBTC just by lending on Mars, driven by the demand to leverage the loop MaxBTC, which is a new product launching on Neutron that's going to offer, that basically offer tokenized real yield on Bitcoin.
And so, yeah, it all kind of comes together really nicely.
If you check out the other, the post at the top here,
the introducing Bitcoin Summer 25, in that blog post,
it walks through everything about the Bitcoin Summer campaign. And we'll update
that over time as new partnerships, new announcements come out. We'll keep that updated so that
it remains the ultimate guide for the program overall. But it provides an overview of everything,
like the vaults themselves, how they work. And then what I'd like to do, you know,
as we get closer to MaxBTC's launches,
I created this infographic as well.
That's not in that post, but it'll, it was,
we felt like it wasn't going to be a good,
a good infographic for the first post
because it was a bit too,
maybe too complex for the first one.
But when we get closer to MaxBTC's launch, I'll post this infographic
that kind of overviews how this whole system comes together and how all these different things,
these different parties benefit from this DeFi system that we're building,
these real yield opportunities at Bitcoin. So everyone from the Bitcoin holder for different risk profiles, right?
So for the Bitcoin holder that wants to earn real yield on their Bitcoin,
but they don't necessarily want to venture out on the risk spectrum too much,
then they can simply do one of two things. One, they could
hold one of these Bitcoin derivatives like LBTC or EBTC and just lend it on Mars and earn the
yield there. Or they can probably more favorably, depending on the yields and different factors,
depending on the yields and different factors,
deposit into max BTC and earn just basically stack sats that way.
Now, you can take a step further there once that's live
and you can then increase your max BTC yield.
So essentially effectively increase the real yield
that you're earning on your Bitcoin
by looping your max BTC on Mars. And so effectively there, what you would do is you would
borrow an asset like LBTC, and then you would swap that for more max BTC. And in the process,
like you're earning the yield for max BTC that you started off with,
that you deposited on Mars, as well as the additional yield that you generate from the
max BTC that you borrowed. And so the vaults enable that strategy by providing liquidity
on duality on the super vault that people swap through. So right when you're leveraged looping,
you need to swap the LBTC or whatever other asset for max BTC.
That's where the super vaults will come in,
leveraging Neutron's built-in Oracle and Cron module
to basically pull in the freshest prices
from centralized exchanges and market make at the top of every block.
So they get guaranteed execution at the top of every new trend block, which is about,
I think, about a second every second.
And they market make at the freshest price and then allow the superfault LPs to capture
the market making fees, but allow the leverage loopers to swap these assets efficiently and not
incur, you know,
if you want to enter the strategy and there's not something like super vaults
and there's not, you know, the,
these other DeFi components that neutron has then it's going to be,
you're going to incur like, you know, significant slippage.
It's going to be very inefficient for you to, the cost to borrow
is going to be too high, for instance, to borrow LBTC. The swapping, you're going to incur significant
slippage. So it just renders the strategy really ineffective. But because of Neutron's built-in
infrastructure, because of the unique applications built on Neutron, this all comes together really nicely
and you get these real yield opportunities on Bitcoin.
And then the other opportunity aside
from just depositing into MaxBTC,
leverage looping MaxBTC or lending
like different forms of BTC on Mars,
you'll also be able to stay in these vaults, even after the Max BTC launch.
What's nice is the vaults actually become more attractive then,
because a portion of the funds in the vaults will be held in Max BTC.
So you'll be earning the Max BTC yield as a vault deposit as well,
as you're supporting this whole DeFi ecosystem of real yield opportunities on Bitcoin.
Yeah, and I think just to build off that a little bit, one point highlighted in the
article that you're mentioning that I tend to harp on a little bit because I'm kind of
in love with the fact that we're introducing um you know this new product uh in this in this in this field with
a few different players but these players want to work with us and I I kind of we talked about this
in the last nation a little bit as well but just the fact that uh you know people that are doing
very similar things to us all btc lbtc ebt, they're all coming to us and they want to work with MaxBTC
because it's a bit of a win-win with our real yield.
And then paired with the integrated architecture,
like you mentioned,
we're going to be able to essentially provide a mutual yield
and grow the pie.
And I think that's probably what I find most bullish
about MaxBTC's positioning in that Bitcoin yield market,
that it's just coming at it with this entirely new angle of real yield generation on top of
purpose-built DeFi blockchain, right? I think that's kind of the beautiful code.
What's kind of cool is you see this in unsaturated, usually nascent markets, you know, before the market is really established, which is where I'd say sort of the BTC DeFi market is today.
It's still in the nascent stages of developing.
Companies that would typically be competitors typically end up collaborating in different ways to establish that market and
make it viable, essentially. And so you will see stuff like this sometimes where
competitors are working together to kind of grow the pie. And so, yeah, it's really exciting seeing,
I mean, the partners that we have lined up for this, I mean, these are some of the biggest names in crypto and in DeFi and in the Bitcoin space, right?
I mean, they have a combined TVL of like 29 billion, I think, last time I checked a couple days ago.
So pretty massive players coming together for this.
We get it.
We're good at BD, man.
We get it.
No, more like Nina's good at BD. Nina's good at bd man we get it okay no more like nina's good at bd shut up nina so that they they have a combined tbl of 29 billion with a b you said design and
those are in vaults that they're they're already running that are earning some sort of uh like
proof of stake points incentive system on a vault that's already live with them, right?
Yep. Yeah. I mean, the TBL is, it varies across, you know, each partner, like what it's in,
what DeFi use cases it's in, but yeah, it's, it's, it's 29 billion.
Yeah. 29 billion with a B and just on a totally unrelated note, what is the market cap of NTRN?
Let's see I'm gonna guess like 120 what do we have totally unrelated question totally I just had it I just had those two things written down
back to back oh yeah I gotta write it's 49 yeah 49 million with uh 29 billion 49 49 and with a million with
the um oh yeah right okay oh yeah what is that sorry that was a totally that was an aside is
that like a 200 um but yeah you know hey listen guys not to be overly dramatic here but this is
like the last chance for freedom because it's either you're either going to leverage Loop with Michael Saylor and the guy, the Jack Mahler's guy who are
just issuing their market cap of their company as debt to buy more Bitcoin.
You have no self-custody or you can leverage Loop in the Neutron ecosystem where you actually
have self-custody and you can actually click the buttons and control what's happening with
your money. And I don't know about you, but you know, if I was interested
in like, going to JP Morgan and asking someone in a suit to buy me Bitcoin so that you know,
I could have a piece of paper that says I own Bitcoin, but I actually never had to deal with
private keys. I would just go get a job as a bank teller. But I'm in DeFi for a reason. And I you
know, I think DeFi has been like kind of fucking lame for a while. And I think DeFi has been kind of fucking lame for a while and it hasn't been cool.
And we're starting to see this massive explosion of these TradFi players that are just taking over Bitcoin and taking over the ethos of what it's supposed to be.
And it's an ETF or it's a micro strategy being copied and pasted 15 different times. And like, where else can you actually
have self-custody of your Bitcoin and deploy strategies and actually feel like you feel like
that meme of the dude at the craps table, like doing the rain man math in his head whenever
you're doing cool shit on DeFi, right? Everybody feels smarter when you actually deploy some of
these strategies on your own. And then you can go into the bank and you can tell them like, hey, you know, I don't have to sit here and work for minimum wage for you because I got I got my Bitcoin leverage looped over on Neutron ecosystem.
Then they're asking you for a job.
You know, that's my that's my future.
That's the future I want to live in.
Hell yes.
I just I just want to stack sets.
I think anyone that holds Bitcoin, they want more Bitcoin.
Everyone knows this. Like you're like, oh, I have 0.1 Bitcoin. I have 0.5 Bitcoin. I have 0.005 Bitcoin. I have 1 Bitcoin. I have 5 Bitcoin. Whatever amount of Bitcoin you have the last few years. I mean, I don't know if you guys have taken a look at the Bitcoin dominance chart recently,
but it's ballooned all the way up to like 65% or something dominance over the total crypto market
since it's low in 2022.
That's insane.
Yeah, one might say people seem to really
want to max their BTC.
It seems to be so.
Oh my God.
You're made for dad life, Clyde.
I'm ready.
I'm definitely ready.
I'm still thinking of the Zach Galifianakis
gif. I feel like every time I see
Dino's DeFi strategies,
it's like the
one where all the numbers are floating behind his head and he's calculating and it's just a leverage
loop that's how that's how i picture dino on an average d5 that that's that's the meme i was just
bringing up with the rain man thing yeah i meant to say oh yeah then he's only craps yeah that's
great both fittings the the um you know the thing. The thing that I am most excited about, though, is like in using DeFi in the past, one of
the things that I was most anticipating and never really got was the ability to lend Bitcoin
and be able to like lend it for USDC and then go out and like use it.
And, you know, at this point, I don't I mean, I know you can do that in places, but I don't
know what the yield is on that.
But to be able to have this like passive strategy working behind the scenes with MaxBTC and
to be able to lend that and then use that as a strategy, I just I don't know if there's
really like another place out there in DeFi or definitely not in Trotify that's like giving people the ability to control
kind of what they're doing. And so, you know, it's this, it is this, the symphony, this orchestra
of different, you know, things that have to come together kind of all at the same time, but
you know, the Mercury upgrade and what those guys are doing with um with the native decks which some
people call duality which causes much confusion but what the what the neutron native decks does
now with a lot of the integrated um infra and like zion was talking about earlier with you know the
ability to basically uh pull and replace liquidity liquidity on a block by block basis um and you
know with the cron module and all this you know, with the crown module and all this, you know, cool,
fancy bells and whistles, but all this shit really at the end of the day is like,
um, I don't know, it's impressive. It's impressive.
And it does take a while to wrap your head around it, but, um,
that's why I kind of preach more to like the,
the emotional side and tell you like this is the last chance for freedom boys.
I'm going to get a, I'm going to get a shirt. I'm going to actually,
I'm going to internally start vouching for that to be the neutrons new catchphrase is the last chance for freedom because
otherwise you're gonna go to uh hang out with steve saylor and jack mollars and then what's
gonna happen is bitcoin price is gonna crash and they're gonna end up having to be four sellers
because they're gonna get margin called on uh all this debt they're issuing just watch it's gonna
happen it's gonna happen and i know you're kind of memeing but like there's definitely some truth called on all this debt they're issuing. Just watch. It's going to happen. It's going to happen.
And I know you're kind of memeing, but there's definitely some truth to what you're saying. And that's kind of the other edge, the other side of the fact that Bitcoin and Bitcoin
FI is maturing as much as it is, is that it's eventually going to get harder to maintain
kind of the original ethos of just everyone having
their coins and everyone contributing to something decentralized and we're kind of
even though we're heading towards more and more adoption it's it's harder that's that's the whole
paradox right so i think what you're saying is actually kind of a is this it's serious in its
own right and it's kind of existentially threatening to some to some aspects of
but we're certainly not neutron sticking sticking to it oh do we have a do we have an audience
member ready to hop in let's let's go for it nice um yeah take it away and crypto it please
hey guys thanks for doing the space i really appreciate it uh neutron is really doing a lot
of great things these days appreciate it i had two questions that came to mind because I'm interested in getting involved in the Bitcoin DeFi summer.
One of the questions is, I already have some Bitcoin in tokenized Bitcoin on Osmosis.
Would it be possible to utilize the Osmosis Bitcoin tokens in this strategy or would I have to do a couple swaps or something like that? Is that going to be possible on IBC?
Elijah is here in the audience as well. I don't know if you want to come up and take that one, if you have more insight into the exact specifics of the underlying assets that will be accepted for deposits.
But I know each of the vaults, they'll accept the underlying asset for that vault. So if it's like an EBT C vault, you'll deposit EBT C.
But I'm pretty sure we're going to be using IBC Eureka for the actual.
Yeah. Yeah. Elijah, do you, do you know,
we're going to be using IBC Eureka, right?
Did you hear his question about, well, you know, he has Bitcoin on osmosis right now.
on osmosis right now how would you be able to to then uh deposit in the vaults on neutron
How would he be able to, to then deposit in the vaults on neutron?
yeah uh so if you have the like the bitco issued on uh osmosis um that will not be um like a deposit
asset so we chose to prioritize uh wbtc eurekaka because one is like the reality is there's just not a lot of Bitcoin in Cosmos right now.
Like if you zoom out and you look at like the total market, most of the Bitcoin on chain is in Ethereum.
So we really wanted to address likeTC denominations on Ethereum, you can choose between WBTC.axlar and you can choose between WBTC, Eureka.
is like much more focused on like iterating on a really really good interchain bridge
um and like the fees are just so much lower so we ended up moving with wbtc eureka
um and yeah we decided to choose only one form of wbtc just because um yeah the more forms there
are like the more fragmentation there is uh we we kind of want to focus on like bootstrapping as many network effects as we can.
So doubling down on like a single form of WBTC will help us.
So yeah, but the good news is you will be able to swap.
And as part of the campaign, we're trying to make sure that swaps can happen with as
little liquidity as possible.
I also know that osmosis has like no fee swaps between different Bitcoin denums.
So like if you're in one Bitcoin denum on Osmosis, I believe the whole point of like
alloyed assets is in part to provide liquidity for you to like move into, you know, other forms
of WBTC. So I think that'll be like pretty easy and cheap to do, if not free. So to summarize,
one of the things to look at is
how easy would it be to swap or bridge
the alloy Bitcoin on Osmosis
into something that would be accepted in a vault?
Yeah, exactly.
I think Osmosis just has free redemptions
for alloyed Bitcoin
into any individual type of Bitcoin, right?
I can second that.
Pretty low fees, yeah.
I'm not sure. I actually haven't swapped it.
It's so new that I've pretty much swapped tokens into Bitcoin,
but I've never moved it around or swapped out of it yet.
Uh-oh.
What was the uh-oh
oh nothing nothing you sound familiar ever met you in person in crypto
uh i was at uh cosmoverse dubai uh just last year i probably caught you there i probably i've
probably seen you run of the cosmoverse yeah. Yeah, I was at Cosmoverse Dubai.
I do a lot of spaces for the network, for RecGang.
Not for them, but on their spaces.
I jumped in with both feet in the Terra Lunatic days back in 2020.
So I've been floating around.
Oh, nice. lunatic days back in 2020 so i've been floating around oh nice
um so the other question i had was when we do the vaults it sounds like we're moving
bitcoin assets into the vaults bridging it over swapping it for uh ebtc and others um
is it going to be paired with like some or equal amounts of Neutron token?
And what do you see as the, like, if it's being paid out in Neutron, for example,
the interest is being earned as Neutron,
then I would imagine some people are going to be swapping the Neutron for other tokens
or using that to swap it out of other things once they getapping the Neutron for other tokens or using that to swap in and out of
other things once they get paid in Neutron.
So how do you see what supports the Neutron price action in this case?
Is it sort of only being used as payment on Bitcoin, or is it part of the process where
Neutron, the underlying price of Neutron also has a
possibility to rise with the liquidity?
Yeah, so I think we need to do a better job of like discerning between the vault period and the
max BTC itself. Which one are you asking about? Are you actually asking about max BTC
and like the yield on that?
Yeah, whichever one I've been listening after a little while and you were saying that
You know the yield will be paid out in Neutron token. So I would imagine that the person receiving yield from
Staking their Bitcoin in the vault would get Neutron and then you know, then they would probably sell it or swap it for something else. But do you anticipate that having the vaults on Neutron will have a net positive
impact on the Neutron price or is it neutral or no impact? How do you see that?
I see. I see. So you're asking, yeah, okay. So in what form do the rewards from the vaults come to the user?
And then the second question is,
and how does this influence the Neutron token itself?
Elijah, could you talk a little bit about how the rewards
for the vaults will work?
So users who deposit in the vaults,
they're going to be earning both Neutron tokens,
but also they're earning lending yield, market making yield, these other tokens, Mars, partner tokens.
How is that going to work?
Yeah. So, good question. We obviously thought about this as the good news. So there's a few
things that I think are relevant
here to answering the question. First off, like, yeah, there's going to be a combination of neutron
rewards, incentives from partners, as well as like the native DeFi yields. The neutron rewards that
people receive will be vested. And like, you can either claim immediately and forego some of the
yields or you can invest them. So, you know, this will kind of disperse some of that self-pressure that people might be worried
about. And then secondly, on like the sort of technical side of things, we are going to have
like a lock for boosts mechanism. So if you are an LP and you can buy any amount of Neutron, and depending on how much
of Neutron that you buy and for how long you stake it will depend on your multiplier. So like,
let's say you're depositing like, and the way this is going to work is like, let's say you deposit
like a million dollars of Bitcoin. If you deposit like a million dollars of Bitcoin into one of
these vaults, if you want to get like a 2x boost,
you need to like lock for some considerable amount of time and buy a million dollars of neutron.
Now, if you want a smaller boost, then you can buy like less neutron and lock for a shorter period
of time. But that's like the trade-off that people can ultimately make. But the idea with this is
like, you know, we want the rewards going to the people who are like displaying
their preference to be like the longest term holders. And so, you know, that that's kind of
like a dynamic that we want to feed into as much as possible throughout how the incentives are
actually distributed. So yeah, so we're definitely working that into a few different places.
We're also giving multipliers for other things that signal like alignment.
We're also giving multipliers for other things that signal like alignment. So for example,
So for example, we're working on an integration with Superbolt such that like holding NFTs will give you like a like some amount of multiplier on what you're receiving.
Because like we identify like NFT holders as like, you know, kind of core community members and people who like, you know, kind of are going out and aligning with the community and, you know, supporting the
ecosystem. So that's like one thing we're working on as well. And then in terms of like how we see
it, you know, like the way I see it right now is like Neutron is pretty undervalued, right? Like,
you know, I think the FDB is about like 82 million. And there's like, I think if you count LSTs,
there's about like $75 million of TV on the platform.
You know, any, you know, however you go about estimating like the success of this program,
you know, there should be a considerable amount of TVL inflow.
And one of the things that was very strategic about how the incentives work is that the dollar amount of incentives is fixed.
So instead of like agreeing to a percentage of the token supply, there's like a percentage of
like the actual dollar amount of NTN that's being distributed across the total campaign.
And so if you, if you want to like, so if you assume, if you want to like extrapolate on like,
you know, what amount of TV leads to what FDV or whatever, you can kind of come to some conclusions about
like, you know, the percentage of the actual token supply that's being given out in incentives.
And that number gets smaller and smaller as like neutron itself grows.
So like in some dynamic, almost like the more successful the campaign is, the less price
impact there is, the more bullish it is for everyone involved.
Um, and the campaign also is designed to be as sticky as possible and to retain as many users as possible after the incentives actually dry up. The only reason why we're willing and
excited to even allocate a considerable amount of incentives is because there's confidence that
after MaxBTC launches, a lot of those yields will be able to be sustained
and the fact that they'll be able to be sustained means that like you know you'll be able to keep
about as much as you were earning before or some amount close to it and the goal is basically if
we think we're going to like beat industry-wide hurdle rates on the amount of yield you can earn
on your bitcoin then the the hustle is really about getting people into the vaults. Because, you know,
if we think that we'll consistently beat like whatever their hurdle rate is, then they should
stay after MaxBTC launches. And like the DeFi ecosystem is in full flux. So yeah, long-winded
answer. Hopefully I got to everything. Okay, I appreciate that. So I connected the dots there.
It did answer my question a lot. So what you're saying is we're at Neutron is going to be incentivizing people holding and staking Neutron to get these multipliers on this Bitcoin yield that is going to be the driver.
So people holding Neutron will be part of the calculation for the amount of yield they're going to end up getting on their Bitcoin.
So that sounds really cool. I understand.
And that does sound really cool for Ne for neutron as a as a layer one and then you also said something that was music to my ears which is um nft creators are going to be able to
participate uh by having you know fractionalized nfts i assume on neutron which is one of the big
thing that neutron and super Superbolt are working on.
And so I'm really interested to hear about that because my wacky partner, Dr. Ank, is down in the audience
and will be launching an NFT on Superbolt this Friday, Dr. Ank.
And so we've been really looking forward to leveraging these Neutron fractionalized NFTs and NFT-Fi tools.
So I'll be looking forward to that and paying close attention to how it folds into DeFi Summer. Thanks.
Yeah, the mechanic we have is going to be much simpler than like anything to do with like fractionalization.
to do with like fractionalization,
It'll just be about like holding NFTs is the plan right now.
is the plan right now.
So like, you know, based on, you know,
using NFT holding as like a proxy
for people's involvement within the community,
you know, holding an NFT or a few different NFTs
from a few different collections
will get you some boost.
But yeah, you know, the goal with all this stuff too,
is like, you know, aside from from just trying to build out this Bitcoin
ecosystem, this whole campaign is going to be an opportunity to get people rewarded for trying out
different things throughout the ecosystem. And I wouldn't say that's the number one goal. I'd say
the number one goal is ultimately make Neutron this DeFi powerhouse for the largest crypto asset.
make Neutron like, you know, this DeFi powerhouse for the largest crypto asset.
But, you know, a very, very large secondary goal is, you know, how do we get people to
try all the cool things that are already on Neutron and engage with all the different
creators, whether they're like NFT creators or application developers or, you know, anything
of that nature.
So that's definitely being worked into the campaign.
And just to add a little bit to what Elijah is saying there to draw a distinction between
the vaults and MaxBTC itself, you know, the neutron incentives are a temporary thing,
as Elijah was alluding to, as sort of like the way to attract these people.
And then once they're in the ecosystem, they'll understand kind of what they can do within, you know, all these different derivatives and this playground of DeFi that the Neutron engineers have constructed.
But the MaxBTC itself, the thing that I think is very interesting about it is, you know, it's not like some inflationary proof of stake yield.
inflationary proof of stake yield. If you think about it, it's almost a mechanic similar to
like a staked ETH on Lido where you're just holding the asset and the asset is
appreciating in value itself. So it's not like we're going from this potentially incentive
driven campaign to just like go on in perpetuity. The point of it is to kind of act as a billboard
to the greatest show on earth,
which will be the max BTC that you just hold
and is earning real yield by deploying some pretty great strategies
that I'm not allowed to speak to actually.
I'll get fired.
So the quants are working on the math right now.
Yeah, the quants are listening too.
I think that is kind of the missing puzzle piece here in CryptoTal.
So I think it'll be very orienting for everyone involved or interested in Bitcoin summer once we get to roll out and talk about MaxBTC a bit more and some of the details around that and how exactly
do we achieve real yield but uh for now it's just hype and whispers and you know trust me yeah look
i don't i don't want to bull post too much but i will say like one thing about neutron that like
was crazy to me and blew my mind when i joined was like a lot of times people just think like oh
they build like a cool product. And like, you
know, if you build it, they will come but the amount of BD work and like actual strategy that
goes behind the shit is, is crazy. And so like, the reason we've the reason we set it up this way,
like partnered with, you know, people like ether five, and and Lombard and like these massive
people that already have all this TVL of people that we know like are the target audience for
this product that are already parking wrapped BTC in different vaults and earning yield.
Like we've gone through this like arduous process of like juggling these people and
hurting these cats. And like, you know, I just said Zion the other day, I don't envy your
position, you know, because he's trying to juggle like all these partners and their timelines as
well. And so much groundwork goes into it because at the end of the day, like we know that they're
the people that have the liquidity in their vaults, they're going to be very attracted to come over
and check this out. And it's going to be a very easy transition to move them away, not move them
away from the partners, but basically just move them from like a different product that the
partners have into the product
that we're sharing with those partners. So that's my bull posting of like the actual,
like behind the scenes stuff that's gone into this. And it's kind of like a, maybe a
non-eloquent way to explain why we're rolling it out the way we are.
Yeah, I just wanted to add to your point
what you were saying about
how using incentives to bootstrap,
like a real...
You guys are really, really summarizing it excellently.
And DeFi is hard to wrap your head around sometimes.
So I appreciate the level of detail
you guys go in to explain it to the noobs.
Oh, yeah.
No, I mean, it's even working on this internally.
It's, you know, the system, everything coming together and seeing how it's self-reinforcing
and beneficial for all these different stakeholders, you know, it's taken us a bit as well to wrap
our heads around it.
But once you do, once it clicks, you're like, wow, this is really exciting.
And no one else is doing something like this.
And so it's, yeah, it becomes, yeah, internally, we've gotten really bullish over the last
several months as we've been working on this.
And, you know, I think every week as we continue to make progress, you know,
it's you're just getting more and more excited.
I'm really excited to see. I think, I don't think we've had a chance to properly showcase
what Neutron's architecture can really do. And once this all heats up, I'm excited for
this to be like, I think it'll be an aha moment for a lot of people to understand what integrated architecture means, why we've designed the blockchain as we have and what this kind of allows.
And people, I think as MaxBTC comes to life, people are like, wow, how can you actually, like the orchestration it takes to have a product like this?
How can that be? How did you build that and build that in the time that we have?
And so I'm excited for that aha moment in our community as well.
Should be good.
Yeah.
One thing I wanted to note as well, you know,
we were talking a little bit about super vaults and duality and how it fits
into the Bitcoin summer campaign and what we're doing with MaxBTC.
the Bitcoin Summer campaign and what we're doing with MaxBTC. We just posted a tweet today
showcasing the basically duality winning a bunch of swap aggregation volume by offering the best
prices for various trades. So you can see in the edit that Pentara made in that video, the underlying chart in the background, the volume has just been increasing every day for the last several days.
And what that's showing, what that's signaling to us internally is that the super vaults, we started testing the super vaults with more capital.
vaults with more capital. And as a result, now we're seeing the volume, we're seeing the effects
of this DeFi primitive that we built, the super vaults themselves providing the best execution,
right? Like we've been talking about providing the best execution for people that want to trade different assets. And so that's a great early sign to us that this stuff is working.
And a lot of credit goes to the team that's been working on that internally to make everything
happen there and prepare for this campaign
well does anyone else in the chat want to come up and talk we really appreciated the input there
in crypto i'm excited that we have have some of our old friends in the ecosystem
coming around,
hanging out, using our new products.
Always a treat.
Always unfamiliar.
One thing I wanted to note
as well, for everyone
that's listening in,
the vaults aren't yet live,
but if you want to get notified
as soon as they are, there's two different ways you can do that.
In the tweets for the space, as well as on our blog or in our highlights tab on Twitter, in the Introducing Bitcoin Summer, like the Ultimate Guide to Bitcoin Summer post, there's links to join the Bitcoin Summer Telegram announcements channel, as well as a type form that you can
fill out if you want to get notified via email instead.
But then you'll be the first to know when these open up.
You can deposit and then start earning right away.
So I was looking at the etherify vaults on bitcoin um and it looks like they have like over
100 million tvl for bitcoin bitcoin vaults where you deposit their their bitcoin eubtc and they're
earning a bunch of points like zion was mentioning at the beginning of the space, but in terms of real yield coming from those is 2%. So that's the hurdle. It seems like across the board, the hurdle is very low.
And max BTC has projected to be between 10% and 15% APR, but even before that is launched,
the vaults will likely be much higher than 2%. And so it's pretty bullish to see like all this untapped potential
that clearly there is demand for.
And there is a lot of TVL out there for Neutron to capture.
I mean, if you want to talk about TVL for Neutron to capture,
there's a lot of bitcoin out there tons of it
and that was just either finally just this one announcement from today over 100 million of
currently existing um tbl that is happily earning only two percent apr on their bitcoin yeah oh i
want to talk about max bdc so bad i want to flex on that apr but let's
it'll be hush hush it's gonna be yeah what's exciting what's what's cool what's cool as well
is you know um even outside of um max bdc you know the the the lending apr that you'll be able
to earn through these assets once MaxBTC goes live
and people are leveraged looping that to increase their real Bitcoin yield.
Like the lending yield, the reason why the big, one of the big reasons why these partners
want to work with us, aside from the DeFi use cases that Neutron enables through things like
SuperVaults and Duality, which are
enabling these efficient swaps for their assets for people to enter and exit and
weaving them into this leverage looping strategy and other things, is that you'll be able to just
use these assets. You'll be able to just lend these assets on Mars, right? And they'll be earning,
you know, assuming that the demand
for borrowing their underlying asset as part of the max BTC leverage looping strategy is good,
the lending yield will be attractive for that asset, right? So you'll be earning real yield
on their base asset, right? So whatever, you know, earning more LBTC, earning more EBTC,
earning more what have you. So that's also, you know, for them, you know, with a lot of the yields
for Bitcoin right now, one of the big reasons why Bitcoin DeFi hasn't taken off is because
the yields are primarily denominated in points and inflationary token incentives.
And so what this whole system will enable with Max BTC, Mars, SuperVaults, and Duality
is this ecosystem of real yield opportunities on Bitcoin.
So outside of just MaxBTC itself, you'll also be able to, if you're a person who wants to
stay holding LBTC or EBTC, they have a lot, they have a lot of, uh, TVL in, in, you know,
our partners have a lot of TV on these assets already, then those holders don't have to, you
know, um, switch, switch to another asset. They can still participate in the neutron defy ecosystem,
um, by lending those assets on Mars. Um, and so, uh, yeah, it's pretty cool how everything fits together and how overall the system is able to be attractive to a larger group of potential users than just if you had MaxBTC as a product standalone. alone
i mean hell yes agreed no it really was the total coming together the coalescence it's it's
it's a good one in summers it's high time um i'm wondering
if we have anything else to touch on dino anything else you wanted to pinch in on the closing remarks
here yeah just commenting how the bitcoin summer vaults it's really seeding like sowing the seeds
for the entire bitcoin d5 garden that will blossom on. And it's like this massive puzzle that is coming together with a lot of different moving
parts.
And little by little, everyone will be learning about how each of these pieces fit together.
Like Zion has been mentioning lending yield, the borrowing yield, different strategies.
And so definitely, we are here to help guide you through the process of learning this whole
puzzle and coming to the community telegram, coming to the community discord and asking questions.
And we host live stream AMAs every Wednesday, 2 p.m. UTC.
These are these weekly spaces.
All of these places are amazing opportunities to ask questions and really learn more about how the entire puzzle comes together.
opportunities to ask questions and really learn more about how the entire puzzle comes together.
So like on that note, as we finish up here, definitely want to give people an opportunity
to ask any questions. So if there's anyone in the audience right now that has some questions
or clarity on anything we went over today, I know it was a lot, but stick with us and
we're on the road to real yield on our Bitcoin And we're excited to unlock that for everyone.
So while we look. There was one question in the replies from DWTC,
which was about BTC coming to Cosmos via bridges
like NOMomic and Babylon
and any of those integrations landing directly on Neutron
or is Neutron working on Vault to Super Vault flows
like MaxBGC or NBGC collateral pipelines live soon.
Yeah, I think Elijah talked a little bit about
like the Gnomex side of things. on, uh, on osmosis in like, uh, NBGC, um, then, you know, you'll probably just want to swap to,
you'll probably just be able to do like a swap, um, use a swap aggregator, swap into the asset,
the deposit asset you want to deposit into, there's going to be a number of vaults. So you'll
have a number of options, um, but swap into the asset that you want to deposit
and then enter the vault that way. So it'll really just be one swap and then deposit. So
it's the flow should be pretty straightforward. But then to your other question, Babylon, yeah,
Babylon's one of our partners. We're currently talking with them. More details to come on that in the coming weeks.
And then, yeah, wallet to SuperVault flows, like MaxBTC or NBTC collateral pipelines. I'm not sure
if you mean like wallet integrations, where like you go right into different integrations or different opportunities
just using the wallet itself.
But yeah, possibly if that's what you're referring to, then yeah, possibly we're going to be
trying to work with wallet providers to make everything as easy as possible in terms of
the product flows.
All right.
It doesn't look like we have any other questions, so I think we can probably close this space off.
What do you think, John or Dino?
Sounds good.
So, yeah, thanks, everyone, for coming
and joining our second second bitcoin summer spaces with
uh etherfi um partnership announcement and stay tuned for future announcements with our other
partners and look forward to seeing you guys next week see you guys
peace Peace. Thank you.
Host
Neutron 🔀
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