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Bitcoin Teeters On Key Support As Saylor’s $2B Buy Does Little to Help
Recorded: March 31, 2025 Duration: 0:32:49Space Recording
Short Summary
The crypto market is experiencing growth with significant inflows into Bitcoin and altcoins, while trends indicate increasing institutional interest in altcoins and stablecoins. Innovations in stablecoin applications are expanding beyond crypto trading, and there is a shift in perception of Bitcoin as a potential reserve asset, reflecting its evolving role in global finance.
Full Transcription
Thank you. I will use the same method for the same method.
I will use the same method for the same method.
I will use the same method for the same method.
I will use the same method for the same method. I'm going to make a little bit more of a little bit more. Thank you. Welcome in, everybody, into another episode of Coinage.
I'm your host, Zach Usman, coming to you live from our Brooklyn studios here in New York City
as we have a huge week in the mixed world of crypto and macro
as Bitcoin teeters on some pretty important support levels right now,
bouncing around that $82K price area.
As we are watching that this week, as all eyes are on President Trump as so-called
Tariff Liberation Day approaches on Wednesday, as he finally reveals what exactly is going to
play out there. And of course, we've got new updates from the Fed as Jay Powell speaks on
Friday. So it's kind of a question of who's going to blink first on these things as the market continues to puke through it all, I think is fair to say.
And very happy to have on with us today a new friend of the show, I think we can say, because she covers everything perfectly from the macro side and the crypto side.
She's been at Coindesk before.
Very happy to have on with us today.
Crypto is macro now.
Newsletter author Noelle Atchison on with us today. Noelle, it's great to see you.
Zach, great to be here with you. And yes, you can definitely consider me a friend of the show.
Good. That is very good. No, but I'm excited to have you on. And almost,
it's kind of a perfect week to have you on, Noelle, because there's so much going on now in DC,
in macro. You had Larry Fink out.
We're going to dig into his letter today a little bit, but basically saying that Bitcoin could
replace the dollar as a reserve asset. But as we always do, just kind of want to start with kind
of your take on where we're at with market jitters, because it's the same thing we're
seeing play out in the stock market right now. And a macro expert would be very curious to get kind of what you're seeing play out as crypto shakes traditional markets
shake on everything in this kind of first sprint of trump's hundred days what are you making of it
it's a big hot mess out there that's the first reaction one thing that's curious zach and i
don't know if you're getting this a lot also, is the confusion in the market now as to what crypto even is.
The number of times I've been asked over the past couple of weeks, so I guess it's not a safe haven anymore, referring to Bitcoin, of course.
And the answer always is it is longer term, shorter term.
It is still a risk asset.
And you mentioned Larry Fink.
We know that the BlackRock team have been pounding the pavement, telling everyone it's not a risk asset.
It is a safe haven.
And apart from the irritation that nobody gets to decide what Bitcoin is, the market will decide.
The market is seeing it as a risk asset as we are seeing in the price.
Right now it is being buffeted by the risk of sentiment despite the accumulating tailwinds.
That longer term will have made it a safe haven.
Yeah, I think it's, I mean, there's a lot of things to dig through in terms of kind of why
we're seeing the price action we're seeing right now. And as always, on Mondays, we look back at
kind of the fund flows from coin shares, which, you know, is largely made up when you look at
crypto investment products is largely made up of Bitcoin flows. And so the Bitcoin ETFs
holding kind of steady as she goes.
But in general, according to their tallying,
226 million in terms of inflows last week,
which is down slightly, but still positive territory.
Interesting, altcoins saw their first week of inflows as well.
So maybe not just Bitcoin,
but also some of the other names included in there.
But Ethereum, when you think about that one too, Noel, it's kind of like, it's a tricky piece because it wasn't too long ago, Eric Trump
was tweeting about it being a good buy. And now it looks less so when you really think about that
chart, which I'm going to try and bring up. But I guess when you look at kind of, you know,
obviously, there's been kind of a beta to Bitcoin for all the other altcoins out there. And it's weird to
think about, to your point you just made, if so many people are looking at Bitcoin as kind of a
safe haven asset, it hasn't necessarily traded that way. And same thing for the altcoins,
they haven't necessarily traded in kind of any direction relative to what's actually going on
in their ecosystem, which leads me to believe that a lot of these macro investors right now,
maybe don't understand them, don't know what to look at. How do you think of everything beyond Bitcoin in this sentiment?
It's still a Bitcoin market. There is some altcoin interest, growing altcoin interest,
especially now with Solana Futures, with that likely Solana ETF coming down the pipeline.
It is increasing, but institutional interest in anything below Bitcoin and maybe at a pinch
ETH, it's not really there yet. Most of that interest
is coming from retail and retail, again, they're not really at the party just now. They'll come in
after the next leg of the bull run really gets going. They do tend to come in late and once they
are very much in, then that's generally a sign of the top. We're a ways away from that yet. It is
still a Bitcoin market, as we can see from the Bitcoin dominance, which
keeps on climbing up with occasional dips, but it keeps on climbing up. And it's understandable
in a way because one, it is the asset with the highest liquidity, with the most sophisticated
derivatives market, most liquid derivatives market with the highest number of on ramps.
It is the one that people tend to start with and we are still in the beginning of this
cycle. So it's going to be a Bitcoin market for some time yet. The ETF, you mentioned the ETF flows,
sorry, the ETP flows, I should say, because it includes those from Europe. I used to follow them.
I don't follow them so much anymore for the following reason. We don't know whether they're
leading or trailing the price movements. If the
price is down, people might be selling. If people are selling the prices down, we don't really know
which comes first. But also, they are very much dominated by institutions playing the basis trade.
That's one of the reasons why we have seen many outflows recently without a corresponding movement
in the price, because the basis trade is just no longer interesting. So they're not the signal
they used to be. Like so many of the market signals,
things have changed.
Yeah, what do you kind of prefer then
when you're trying to get a bid
on kind of where we're at?
Because I would say the same thing.
I mean, obviously it's kind of lagging anyways
because it's like kind of
who made their moves last week anyways.
But one move that was made,
also somewhat lagging,
as he announces it on Twitter every Monday,
is Michael Saylor at Strategy scooping up more Bitcoin. I have his tweet pulled up over here, Texas, as we take a
look at that one again. This time, the second largest of the year. So maybe, I think, at least
indicative of confidence, perhaps, as we always know. He says he's going to be buying the bottoms
for forever. But almost $2 billion this time, Noel, at a price of $86, close to $87. I'm not sure what you make of kind of sailors and strategies importance in this market as well, if it's a Bitcoin market, just because you can look at that and say, my kind of initial gut reaction was like, wow, he threw another $2 billion in and basically did nothing because we saw markets still kind of Bitcoin under pressure. So I don't know if there's something else that you pay more attention to now as crypto becomes so influenced by macro markets. It's almost
as if maybe these sailor buys don't matter. But I don't know. What do you say?
You know, they say a billion here, a billion there. Sooner or later, you're talking about
real money. You're right, Zach, you hit the nail on the head. It is very telling that despite of
the good news we are seeing come out and we've got the sailor, we've got the GameStop, we've
got the MetaPlanet. There are are buyers in the market corporate buyers in the market
and yet the price doesn't care the price is heading down that's what i'm looking at i'm looking at
risk sentiment i'm looking at rates expectations i'm looking at the economic data because that's
the driver right now we know it's going to turn at some stage but there's still a lot of uncertainty
in the market and the macro drivers,
the macro buyers, the large funds, they're right now in the safe assets of which Bitcoin is not
clearly one, despite what BlackRock will tell you. Again, that'll change, but it's just not
ready to do so yet. There needs to be some momentum. And any new run of any bull leg,
any new leg of any bull run, I should say, is always driven by new money coming in.
Not the people that are already in the market churning, new money coming in.
And right now we're not seeing that.
So what I focus on is just the plain old macro sentiment.
That's the driver for now.
Yeah.
Well, let's talk a little bit more about that, too, because we were just putting up this past week, a deeper dive into what's going on with
stable coins, because I'm kind of curious to get your take on what this might do for the market.
Because on one hand, you know, historically, if we see more money move into stable coins,
it has been somewhat of a good signal in terms of where prices go for Bitcoin and other things.
Because generally, again, all things static, it generally has been kind of, I think it's fair to
say, like just liquidity conditions and kind of where people can put money into these new things.
But now we kind of have something that is somewhat of a complete break from historical norms, which
is in the US at least, you're going to have a stablecoin bill
potentially push through. And we're seeing loosening of all these regulatory measures
from kind of the huge regulators, including the OCC and various others that are saying banks can
now touch these stablecoins. And so I do wonder, Noel, if you kind of have the same struggle that
I do, which is like this one indicator that has historically been pretty strong is now going to
completely look, I think, shockingly different when billions of dollars flow into these things.
And you're going to be like, well, now I don't really have any way to connect the dots between what stable coins have told us in the past and what's going to happen now.
But how do you see that shaping up if all of these banks and institutions can now either A, launch their own stable coins, or B, just touch them and kind of throw their money
into these things what do you see shaping up there you're so right in pointing out that this is yet
another one of those signals that just doesn't work anymore because the market really has gotten
a whole lot more complex uh stable coins are about to explode in activity we're already seeing that
i mean over just over the past week what have have we seen? Let's see, Fidelity is talking about issuing a stablecoin. Custodia Bank is going
to be issuing a stablecoin. We're seeing great activity even in Europe where it's incredibly
difficult. Trump's family business is talking about launching a stablecoin. We're looking at
New York Stock Exchange parent looking at how to use stable coins. It's massive,
just over the past week, the announcements that we've been seeing on stable coin activity. But
here's the thing, Zach, not all of those stable coins are going to be used for crypto trading.
Many of them, much of them, the bulk of them probably, but not all of them. And as the market
grows, as it develops, as it becomes more mature, the portion that is used for crypto assets is going to dwindle
we know that large corporates are already today using stable coins for internal transfers that
have to cross borders uh fidelity's stablecoin is that going to be for crypto trading or is it going
to be more for the tokenized funds they're probably going to end up launching and the
world financial stablecoin no one knows what that's going to be used for. That's something totally different. So again, it's the use case
that is changing here. Stablecoins becoming a backbone of finance and commerce more broadly
rather than just the crypto markets. And that weakens their strength as a signal of interest.
That said, when the crypto markets pick up, we will see a rush into stable coins. We will
see market size grow a lot more because institutions are going to discover that it's just much easier
to trade with. Yeah. And there is, I guess, you know, when we pair all these things, right,
when we think about traditional finance and the idea of people getting into stable coins,
I have the same kind of question because it's one thing where like
if you're a human being, if you're a retail trader and you move your money from a bank account into
stable coins on an exchange or what have you, of course, it's very easy to then be like, okay,
maybe I'll convert the stable coin into Bitcoin or into Ethereum or whatever you want to trade with.
And that happens because we're people. For institutions, I imagine that that's not going
to happen. It's not like, okay, we put our money in the stable coin and now we're people. For institutions, I imagine that that's not going to happen.
It's not like, okay, we put our money in this stable coin and now we're going to throw it.
Let's take a bet on this meme coin over here.
And so that's not going to happen.
But I do think on the margin, it does seem like a slow – I mean, we all know institutions move slower than retail because they have rules and regulations.
But those are changing in real time. And so I do wonder if it is kind of somewhat akin,
Noel, to kind of a liquidity injection as it were,
if you're looking at kind of macro markets,
and the idea of what might play out.
Do you think that that's a fair comparison
to kind of link those dots in terms of,
hey, there's an injection coming?
And if that's maybe, it sounds like you agree,
but I'll let you know.
Totally. That's a super smart observation there because not a lot of people have noticed
that. Stablecoins themselves, they're kind of boring. They don't really do anything except
whiz around at incredibly efficient speed and at low cost. I mean, that's something,
but they're not nearly as interesting for most institutional investors and treasurers
as say tokenized money market funds. And what we're seeing now, and this is new, this is very new, is the ease with which you
can transfer, you can convert your stable coins into tokenized money market funds.
And this, I think, is where the liquidity injection is going to come from, because what
are tokenized money market funds?
They are an excellent collateral.
Now, collateral actually earns an interest.
That is the kind of collateral that the institutions and the big macro funds are used to using.
That's what they're going to want.
And the collateral on the crypto exchanges that can get you more levered positions, that
is a type of liquidity injection.
Much better quality of collateral, much better quality of liquidity injection than just plain
old stablecoins, which many macro investors were reluctant to hold on to because they
didn't produce the yield.
So that is the market infrastructure change that I think is going to drive the liquidity injection into markets in the coming months.
Let's talk about one guy who definitely does speak for traditional investors, and that would be BlackRock's Larry Fink.
It was interesting because he just posted his letter.
And, you know, again, this is a guy that a lot of people on Wall Street look to for kind
of signals in terms of where markets are heading, and just kind of in general things to pay attention
to. And I think it's pretty fascinating to step back and just think about where we're at, because
it wasn't too long ago that Larry Fink during an interview with Bloomberg was talking about
Bitcoin being an index of money laundering is the direct quote. And it's like to think about how far he's come in his own Bitcoin journey to now be talking about Bitcoin replacing the dollar.
It's pretty amazing to think about, you know, that's just one guy.
But he kind of speaks for, again, a lot of people and a lot of money, more importantly.
And I just want to read a little bit of what he said in this letter, because it's kind of crazy, again, to back up and think about these things.
And so let me switch over to that and just bring that up right now.
I just want to read it because he said,
The U.S. has benefited from the dollar serving as the world's reserve currency for decades, but that's not guaranteed to last forever.
The national debt has grown up three times the pace of GDP since Times Square's debt clock started ticking in 1989.
GDP since Times Square's debt clock started ticking in 1989. And basically, he goes on with
a chart to show how serious this debt problem is becoming as a percent of GDP could become
permanent as interest payments become even larger than defense spending here in the US. And so,
I guess, Noel, obviously, I'm throwing a lot at you there. It's like, hey,
go ahead and unpack Larry Fink's thoughts on this over the last years that he's changed his
position. But I mean, it just speaks to kind of how far some people are willing to go in terms of looking at Bitcoin as potentially a world reserve asset.
I'm just kind of curious to get your thoughts on maybe that.
Well, I want to speak respectfully because there's Larry Fink here and has done a lot of good for the industry, especially what he's done for Bitcoin
via the ETFs. But there is a but here, and I say this with respect. What is he smoking on this?
I mean, there's no way Bitcoin, with respect, Larry, there's no way Bitcoin is going to be
replacing any fiat currency as the world's reserve currency simply because it is volatile, because
nation states are not necessarily going to trust it as a currency,
as a store of value, as a dollar hedge, as a monetary inflation hedge.
For sure, yes, I do see nation states holding Bitcoin,
especially if they realize they can actually mine it with some of their unused resources.
But as a reserve currency, I don't think we even want that
because there is always the, looking back through history,
the character split, the character
split, the schizophrenia, if you like, of trying to have something that is a store of value be
a currency generally doesn't work out as gold can attest. But we also have to take a step back and
I say this with respect, as in he's selling a product. He is definitely selling a product here
and he did the same thing with ESG. Do you remember how ESG was an existential crisis and we all had to convert our funds
into ESG friendly investments? Well, again, that's no longer fashionable. So that's no
longer you'll hear him say and talk about Bitcoin is something he is trying to sell.
I don't think this is something that macro investors are necessarily going to take seriously.
However, that said, he is totally right on the deficit. This is a
massive problem, not to mention a possible existential one. But that, again, goes back
to the whole Trump administration policy.
Yeah. And I think it'll be interesting, again, just to kind of set this up, is we've got
a problem that almost everyone universally agrees in terms of the debt. And we're seeing that play out right now with Doge and the idea of Elon Musk and the idea of, you
know, again, it's getting a lot of attention because it's Elon Musk and it's Trump, but it's
not too dissimilar from what we heard under the Obama administration as well in terms of
governments needing to be more efficient and cutting down public spending. I think that that's
kind of been a theme, no matter who's in office, people are saying, hey, look, that's a problem.
And so, you know, we're seeing that play out. But I do wonder, to your point on kind of like, hey, you're selling
a thing. You could say the same thing about Saylor as he continues to double down on his
levered bet on Bitcoin and buying more and more and now convincing, as you also said,
other companies like GameStop to play the same playbook. And so I wonder, I would use the same,
I think, you know, when you were at Coindesk, I think you were at Coindesk when we were covering Terra and like the idea of that explosion and that collapse.
You just said something that kind of triggered my thoughts, which are levered bets and a mix of a currency kind of being used both as a store of value and speculative asset.
And those things don't mix very well.
And I think we saw that play out with Terra sometimes.
And of course, there was potentially over promises and under delivering and fraud in
terms of what was actually being used for the CHI payment system.
We don't need to go into all that again and rehash everything.
However, I do want to ask you if some of that becomes systemic.
We had Hester Peirce on the show last week and we were talking about what happens when
you plug in a system that is basically born out of never wanting to be bailed out with a system
that loves taking risks and getting bailed out and when you have stable coins now being plugged
into that when you have kind of larry fink talking about bitcoin the way he is now
what do you make of that in terms of risks that maybe people are missing black swan events
potentially as we plug these systems into each other expect Expect the unexpected, right? The market adage. Risks
obviously are going to build because as you mentioned earlier, Zach, we're people. People
like risk, especially when things are good. We like a lot of risk. And this is one of
the reasons why going back to what we opened with even looking at the Bitcoin dominance
index that tells us where we are in the cycle. When the cycle is good, we're going to go
out in the risk curve and altcoins are going to start to do better. But right now, we're a long, long
way from people feeling safe. Even just from the consumer surveys that we've been seeing, yes,
they are partisan, but that doesn't make them any less relevant. People are not feeling at
all confident about what's ahead. And so the old traditional safe havens like gold are going to continue to do well, as we're seeing. It's just blasting through at all-time high after
all-time high because it's comfortable. Everyone understands it. No one's going to question gold.
No one thinks it's going to change its nature while it's sitting in your vault. And Bitcoin
is still a new asset on the block. It is still going to take some time for people to get their
heads around that this asset can be, as you pointed out, a risk asset and a store of value.
But as for the buildup of risk, yes, for sure it is going to happen because we are people
and because we do like leverage.
Nature has a way, right?
But that's where I think that the portfolio allocations that Larry Fink and the like are
going to be recommending.
Bitcoin is the safe asset in a portfolio, air quotes, big air quotes there,
whereas some of these smaller altcoins, when we do eventually get the BlackRock
Sol ETF and so on, they're going to be the more speculative higher return assets.
It's going to be just a traditional, right now it all seems so out there,
and seriously, when I was at Coindesk, I joined in 2016,
this was something we never
imagined this fast. It's going to become fairly humdrum to talk about crypto asset allocations
within the broader portfolio risk scenario. Well, that's why I think it's so fascinating.
And I'm so happy that you joined us on today's show because this is something that you cover
now, as I said, with the Crypto is Macro Now newsletter, kind of these worlds are increasingly combining. And it is fascinating to
see play out, especially now, as I think a lot of people who are in crypto wake up to this idea of,
oh, wait, now I need to be a macro expert and understand kind of what tariffs are going to do
to everything. But it's a perfect transition into what we're going to have play out, because
on Wednesday, we're going to hopefully get more clarity in terms of what Trump wants to do with tariffs. And that will come basically just days before on Friday,
when we hear from Jay Powell, who will speak. And you kind of touched just then, Noel, on some of
the macro indicators in terms of consumer sentiment, dipping down both people, whether
Republican or Democrat, obviously Republicans a little bit less so, but Democrats very afraid of kind of the look forward for where the economy is going to go here in the U.S.
And when you look at those things, it does seem like we're in what we were in the first Trump administration, which is who's going to blink first between Trump and Powell.
And now here we are, even just this week, I think we're back up above three rate cut expectations in terms of what the market is now pricing in, which is not what the Fed has communicated thus far.
Which leads me to believe, and my next question, is what we might expect to hear when Jay Powell speaks on Friday.
And of course, maybe that's somewhat hinging on what we hear from Trump on Wednesday.
But I'm curious to kind of get what you make of all of that now being the main thing that's driving price action in crypto.
That's the main driving price action, driving pretty much everything at the moment.
It is astonishing what's going on.
You mentioned that we will get some clarity on Wednesday.
I think we should be so lucky as to get some clarity on Wednesday.
There will be an announcement, but there's no guarantee that won't change by Thursday, Friday, Monday, Tuesday, etc., etc. We just don't really know. And there
doesn't seem to be agreement within the administration either. We have Besant saying that maybe 10,
15 countries. We have Trump saying, I didn't say that. We're going for all of them, which
also, again, just have a moment of thought for the poor programmers trying to get the
systems ready for this. It's just not feasible. And then there's, of course, going to be all
sorts of tariffs on top of that of everyone
who wants to move away from the dollar, which, of course, many are going to want to do in
this scenario.
It's messy.
And no, we're not.
I don't think we're going to get clarity on Wednesday.
I also don't think we're going to get clarity anytime soon on the economic outlook.
And that is probably what Powell is going to be talking about on Friday.
He speaks just a few hours after we get the latest jobs report.
And this is a very key jobs report because we're all waiting for some signs of the, not just the federal, the
government layoffs, but also just the federal hiring freeze to start to kick in. We know that
layoffs are starting to ripple across businesses across the country because many of them do depend
on the federal contracts that they're not, that have been yanked or that they're not going to be
getting more of. And we're going to start to see that in the federal contracts that they're not, that have been yanked or that they're not going to be getting more of.
And we're going to start to see that in the employment data.
And my fear is that there's going to be an underside miss this Friday because it's not
fully baked in yet.
Just the gravity of what is happening, as I'm sure you can probably just even tell from
the house prices in the DC area.
Now this is relevant because of the rate cut expectations that you mentioned.
Goldman Sachs, for instance, have increased their inflation forecast for the end of 2025
to 3.5%, up from 3% in their previous report.
And it's at 2.8% now.
When I say inflation, I'm talking about core PCE, which is what the Fed prefers to focus
So from 2.8% now, Goldman Sachs expects it to go up to 3.5%. And yet,
they have increased their forecast for rate cuts for 2025 from two to three. Now, that does not
make sense, given that Fed officials have gone blue in the face telling us that they're going
to put inflation first. Inflation is the priority. Sorry, everyone who's losing their job. Inflation
is the priority. And again, this is also quite human. They were very embarrassed by
just simply overlooking or having overconfidence in the transitory narrative of 2021. They're not
going to make that mistake again. They're going to focus on inflation first. I don't think they're
going to cut rates this year at all unless they need to do emergency injections of liquidity
into the market, which is actually entirely possible given the wall of
debt maturity that is coming down the pipeline. So all of this is probably what Powell is going
to talk about. He's going to reiterate that inflation is the forecast. That is going to
add more jitters to the markets who really want the Fed to cut rates, even though it probably
wouldn't do anything for market liquidity anyhow, but they really just want the symbolism of it.
And Trump isn't going to give it to them. And so this is something that we all have to keep an eye out as well.
Well, you paired a lot of points there in terms of what we're hearing from Trump, from, you know,
what we have heard from Jay Powell and the Fed. And it was interesting, too, because just last
night, you had Elon Musk speaking at a rally, kind of mentioning a little bit more of cuts.
And you mentioned how many jobs have been lost.
I think on Friday we're going to see kind of some of that play into it.
But a lot of federal jobs getting cut.
And last night someone asked Elon Musk on stage about ending the Fed. Just want to play a little bit of what we heard from him because that's some more in a time where we already have so much uncertainty, perhaps more being injected as well.
Just take a listen to what we heard from Elon last night. Question is, what is your opinion on the Federal Reserve,
and do you have any intentions of doing anything with them? And the Fed!
Yeah. I don't know. I always wanted to say that, you know.
I don't know. I always wanted to say that, you know.
Now, look, I mean, Elon has has not been shy about talking about cutting, you know, things in D.C.
And he's talked about ending the Fed before, maybe not like on purpose, but he's definitely talked about, you know, reeling it in.
And so has Trump. And so I'm I'm not sure if it's a good thing to talk about, because as a macro guy myself,
I'm not sure if it's a good thing to talk about because as a macro guy myself, it's one of the last few agencies in government that maybe people actually do believe is apolitical.
And Jay Powell has been pretty firm in his stance that he's not going to let a president bully him, as he said in the first term and said right before Trump got into office.
And so I do think it is interesting to kind of look at yields on the tenure somewhat falling to kind to kind of, once again, get ahead of the Fed, perhaps, in terms of what they might have
to do?
But you mentioned Friday being so important on the jobs data, Noel, and I almost wonder
if we're back into this whole bad news is good news situation where people want to see
that.
It's difficult to track, but how could that maybe throw a little bit more uncertainty
in there if we are to believe what Elon just said?
As if any more uncertainty was needed to make people feel scared, right?
You know, just bring it on.
I would like to think, again, I'm an optimistic person by nature, I'd like to think Elon isn't
speaking seriously here because surely he's intelligent enough to know that that would
be disastrous for investor confidence in the U.S. markets.
I mean, yields would shoot up, stock market would continue to crash.
As it is, markets have already been rattled by President Trump hinting at maybe running
for a third term. That's not going to be great for investor confidence, either. And investor
confidence, as markets people know, matters a lot for the role of the dollar in the global
commerce. So let's just hope that he's not being serious. Now, reel it in, that's an
interesting twist. I have heard him say that before.
What does he mean by that?
I truthfully, I have no idea what he means by that.
The Fed, okay, maybe cut some stuff.
Yes, for sure.
But what does the Fed do other than focus on inflation and employment?
That's basically what it does.
Yes, perhaps there are some Treasury activities that could move back into Treasury, but the Fed doesn't do that much, really.
Reel it in, how?
Yeah, I think it's, I mean, there's a lot more to be seen on that front.
And as we said, perhaps we might get some of that clarity this week as we see all of these things play out on Wednesday and on Friday.
But definitely a wild time to be tracking anything in crypto and in macro.
And so I just want to give one more shout out to our viewers who,
if they haven't yet checked out, Crypto is Macro Now,
the newsletter here from Noel.
Would recommend that as a shout out.
And Noel, thank you so much for coming on with us today on Coinage.
We'd love to have you back as we kind of progress through all this.
But thank you so much.
That would be a lot of fun.
So good talking to you.
And thank you for your super smart questions.
You've given me a lot to think about.
And as you say, it's gonna be certainly the time
to be looking at this.
I joined, I mean, I started researching Bitcoin back in 2014
and I knew that this was gonna be the most exciting field
that I could think of coming going forward.
It's even more exciting than I thought it would be.
Yeah, I i think you know
it's it's it's somewhat of a spoils game in crypto as a reporter to kind of you know have the luxury
of covering macro stuff which can be a little bit dry and a little bit boring but then also have the
flashiness of the ego and charisma of crypto founders and the stumbles and failures that
exist and uh you know I wouldn't be smiling
if it happened all the time, but there are good things to be exhausted, right? You'd be taking a
break somewhere. And there's still hope that potentially this, this all might be used for
good. At least I hope. Yeah. So we'll see how that goes. It can get overwhelming as well. And I'm
sure many of your viewers find that too. It's overwhelming trying to keep up with everything.
And my advice would be just think, think longer term, think medium term, think in years rather than weeks. And this is the change
we are here for. Yes. And good advice. I mean, nothing is ever slow and steady up into the right
day by day. But if you do zoom out, I think that's why, you know, it's kind of interesting
to maybe think about where Larry Fink was just a few years ago, saying that Bitcoin was money laundering, and now here he is pumping
it so hard. And of course, you are right to point out, he has a financial interest in doing so.
But nonetheless, Noel, thank you so much for coming on again. Appreciate your time.
And thank you to everyone on the stream who has listened as well. Per usual, you can head to
coinage.media to check out more of the biggest headlines in Web3
and, of course, the coverage this week as we see it all play out.
Noel Ocheson, thank you so much for coming on.
Appreciate it.
And that's going to do it for us.
Thanks again, everybody, for tuning in.
For Texas, for myself, for Noel.
Thanks again for watching.
If you want to co-own the show with us,
you can head to coinage.media to learn more about our co-op model based here in the U.S.
You can co-own it with me, the co-founder of Netflix, and other smart people in Web3. We'll see you again soon.
