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Bitcoin Unchained: DEXs
Recorded: May 8, 2025 Duration: 1:03:18Space Recording
Short Summary
The Tokyo Bitcoin Blitz event showcased a vibrant community of builders and projects, highlighting significant developments such as the launch of Tokyo Wallet and RadFi's strategic initiatives. With a focus on partnerships and innovative fundraising strategies, the Bitcoin ecosystem is experiencing notable growth and collaboration, paving the way for a robust DeFi landscape.
Full Transcription
Thank you. Thank you. Hey, I've got my sins, but you've been feeling no crying, and bad mistakes, and I've made a few foreign
what's up what's up what's up everybody can you hear us okay let's get a mic check going Check going. One, two, one, two. One, two, one, two.
One, two, three, four.
Awesome.
Awesome.
All right.
Let's bring some people in.
Let's get the space rolling.
Let's get things running.
Let's kick things off.
GM, good afternoon.
Wherever you are, welcome. Welcome to the Tokyo Bitcoin Blitz.
Super excited to be here.
And what a day, my friends.
Bitcoin 101,000.
And we played that track coming in because we are the absolute champions.
Legends.
Well done.
Everyone who held on and got here.
Bullrun is well and truly back on.
Super excited, pumped for this space.
So excited to speak to the community and really thrilled to be here.
Let's go, let's go, let's go.
Absolutely love the energy there, Guido.
But it is a star-studded lineup, right? We got a ton of OG builders in the Bitcoin ecosystem that are building,
either continuously building or have built DEXs.
So if you guys could share this space,
we want to get as many people in here as possible to educate.
That's the biggest thing is these spaces are here to educate people
that are trying to learn about the Bitcoin ecosystem, try to see, you know, what is actually
being built here, right? And today's topic is Bitcoin Unchain the DEXs, right? So if you guys
don't mind, we'd love to kick some things off with a little bit of, you know, market sentiment.
I'd love to pass it over to my co-hosthost from on-chain revolution by the way we are a uh live stream podcast in the bitcoin
ecosystem and beyond uh but shizzy how are you feeling with you know crossing that hundred
thousand dollar mark uh do you feel like this is sustainable or is this just kind of a you know
just a pop over and then back down what do you think man I'm pumped man um at the Bitcoin
over 101 absolutely amazing right but the best part about this no one's really talking about
is the alts are coming with it so back in um you know I want to say like November December it's
really seemed like Bitcoin was like doing everything it's on its own especially this
year all it's really haven't done anything but this is this is the time right now it feels like
2021 where Bitcoin's moving ethereum's moving and everything's coming with it and that is the most important
thing that i got from today anyway let's see if this continues but as of right now i'm pumped bro
well if we do get that 2021 energy i think everybody's gonna be pumped right um but yeah
you're absolutely right there's a lot of catalysts for sure that are kind of playing into this.
But I also want to give a big thanks and shout out to Tokyo Wallet and their team for, you know, putting this together, right?
This is an educational series, the Bitcoin Blitz.
You know, we are kicking it off with these builders that have been building DEXs.
But just to kind of go over, you know, some of the lineup today,
we got Rune's DEX, our guys from Rune's DEX that have been building
in the Bitcoin space for a very long time.
They have extensive experience, actually, in different parts,
like Lightning, RGB, I believe, Rootstock possibly too.
So they really know what building on Bitcoin is truly like
and how hard it can be, right?
So we love those guys at Rune's DEX. And I know that we have Sats Terminal. We got Cyclops from Sats Terminal.
We got Scott from RadFi that's doing some crazy things as well. And then eventually we should get
the team from .Swap as well and possibly RichSwap, which is you know utilizing icp's tech stack so we get
to kind of hear a little bit about that and that is another great thing is a lot of these builders
are using different approaches to you know be able to build these tools and so we definitely love
that but um i'd like to pass it over to guido a little bit to kind of maybe uh explain a little
bit of what tokyo wallet is before we kick things off and maybe some exciting news.
Maybe if you have some, if not, no worries.
But if you could break down a little bit of what Tokyo Wallet is
and what it offers the Bitcoin space.
Thanks so much, man.
I'm so happy to be here.
And what can I say?
It feels auspicious.
You know, for those that have been through some cycles before,
it's these moments which
are kind of pivotal and I can only see up from here. So super excited. But in terms of Tokyo,
look, we started as a Cardano project. We built and hardened ourselves there, but we're always
built as a multi-chain wallet. We launched just send and receive and holding assets on Bitcoin in November last year.
But so happy to be on here with the guys from Sats.
You know, we were well supported when we started looking at doing rune swaps by DotSwap,
the preferred wallet on the platform.
But we really loved the guys from Sats and gave us an opportunity to aggregate marketplaces um and dexes um you know tokyo is not the kind of product who just
you know drops a wallet and you know and doesn't do anything about it we engage with communities
which is a testament to the to the bitcoin blitz like we get to know projects we get to know the
wants and needs of communities we we get behind communities and try to accelerate. Tokyo is more than just a wallet. We see it
not only as, you know, we call many things super dap, power dap, you know, all those different
kind of quantitives that we get, but we actually see ourselves as a display case for, you know,
really, you know, putting great product forward.
We don't pretend to be the experts in building everything.
So, you know, we've joined the community to try to accelerate projects, try to, you know,
work with communities to grow.
And, you know, we're in such an exciting space for Bitcoin.
exciting space for Bitcoin.
When you look at the features of Tokyo, we integrated, you know,
we saw, you know, shout out to people like Phantom who kind of led the way,
but we still felt there was a long way to go in terms of mobile experience.
We introduced things like, you know, reading, you know,
buy and sell orders directly off chain, advanced charting,
aggregating NFT marketplaces,
really starting to look at cross-chain interoperability,
the best DAP browser that I've ever seen,
but I'd challenge anyone to kind of work with us and sort of give us some feedback on that.
But I suppose a multi-tab DAP browser,
we also gamified the platform.
So we launched a token last year on
on cardano we held some back to launch on runes so hold on for that guys and and are looking at
multi uh you know chain launches for our token we raised a couple million bucks but we invest a lot
of that back into deep in projects so we could reward our community for you know for using the wallet
there's more to come in terms of the tokyo txp rewards engine but you know each time you do a
swap or each time you you know you perform a function on tokyo it generates txp points and
we return that in the form of yield back to our app back to our holders and also our users
so we're really super excited to be here.
And can I just say something about the Bitcoin folks?
You guys have been so welcoming to us.
When we reached out to this Bitcoin Blitz space,
we spoke to the leading projects on Bitcoin runes, ordinals,
all of the protocols, lending platforms, Babylon
in terms of staking. We provide staking through the wallet as well. But we kind of reached
out to all the projects and said that we didn't want to just have a harmless, just a shill
about Tokyo. We actually wanted to celebrate the products and educate
and get people to learn about Bitcoin
and learn about what Bitcoin really was
because, you know, you ask the punter in the street
what Bitcoin is and, you know, it's a digital currency, sure.
And it's the first thing that people say
when you ask them if they know about crypto.
They go, yeah, what, Bitcoin?
But Bitcoin's so much more and it's going so much deeper.
And we're so excited to be part of this revolution so um you can probably hear that i'm i'm beyond excited um i'm i'm super thrilled to be here and we're really looking forward to hearing from all
the great projects tonight let's go i love it i love it and i love the approach of also just
being open-minded to say hey look i know there's
other wallets around and we're not trying to kind of eat each other that's not our mentality coming
in here it's more of like where can we work together right and we've seen that with with
tokyo for sure and a lot of these other builders by the way um you know you see a lot of partnerships
with the aggregation and stuff like that but uh I want to shout out another builder that I recognize in the space.
First, it's Ferks and also Cha-Chang.
I know Cha-Chang has kind of, you know,
been a big part of like introductions
and stuff like that as well for you guys at Tokyo.
But Ferks, if you wouldn't mind kind of
just maybe going over a little bit of, you know,
your interaction with Tokyo, maybe your feeling
and how you guys are doing, if you wouldn't mind.
Hey, GM, GM, just a mic check over here.
Am I loud and clear, audible to you guys?
Loud and clear, bro.
Let's go, let's go.
All right.
So your question is targeted towards us getting to know Tokyo at first.
So, I mean, I already knew a bit about Tokyo.
I was following their token on Cardano.
And Shaz from the Tokyo team, actually, we connected first on Telegram.
And then we sort of spoke about whatever was happening in the Bitcoin ecosystem
and how Cardano and Bitcoin are similar in a lot of ways because both have like the UTXO model.
And that is what sort of kicked off the conversation with us.
And after that, Tokyo was like really interested in the Bitcoin ecosystem and looking at the type of product that they were working on and the roadmap, I think we were completely in sync with, you know,
the narrative that Tokyo was bringing on to Bitcoin, right?
And another thing that clicked with the Tokyo team was the UI part that they're
super bullish on. I mean, Web3 lacks a very, very good UI.
I think most of the people present in the space will agree to that.
Tokyo sort of is that gap as well
wallet swaps
and the way
you know they have
the entire utility built around their token
as well and
yeah looking at their
you know journey from Cardano
and to Bitcoin,
that was like really, you know, what do you say?
Like it resonated with us and that's how we were like in this space together.
And we sort of helped them with getting like into the ecosystem
and introduced them to like a lot of key players in the Bitcoin eco.
And that is all we had to do.
I mean their work does more talking than that and they sort of you know blew all the people away
with the kind of setup that they have currently in place. So definitely we're super bullish on Tokyo.
Then finally I got to meet the superstar Guido himself and oh man that guy is some energy bomb man like you got
to meet him IRL to actually understand what I'm talking about here I know a lot of people who have
met Guido understand what I'm talking about here so yeah and then we sort of like clicked and you
know that's how we you know helped each other I mean, that's the ethos that everyone in the Bitcoin ecosystem should definitely follow.
And, you know, with Shizhi and Yagobi on the side, I think the space is going to do like really, really good.
And just be, stay tuned for, you know, the series of spaces that are coming after this.
I mean, you're going to learn a lot about the Bitcoin ecosystem,
and it is going to help you in narrative building as well.
But super bullish on Tokyo, guys.
So, yeah, to answer your question, that is how we met Tokyo, Shizy.
Awesome.
Appreciate your feedback there and your experience.
But let's, if everybody doesn't mind, let's dive right in.
We got a lot of great builders and speakers on the panel.
I was going to start with Runes Dex, but I think you might need to request to get back on the panel there.
I'm not sure if it's David or anybody else behind the account there.
But let's go ahead and pass it to Scott. Scott is representing RadFi, a really big friend of the ecosystem.
He's been around for a while.
Scott, how are you doing, sir?
How is RadFi doing?
Could you kind of break down what you guys are about for the community?
Sure.
Yeah, will do.
Thanks for having me.
Happy to be here.
And first thing I want to mention, is uh shout out to the tokyo
business development team or business development guy because like i got hit probably from like four
or five different contacts and angles like hey the tokyo team is trying to get in touch with you
guys for this uh runes decks uh spaces you know i'm talking like getting hit from all these
different angles and then i talked to uh a guy that works for me who was in Dubai.
And he's like, oh, I met this guy from Tokyo.
He said they're doing a spaces on DEXs and you guys should join.
So definitely some persistent, strong BD efforts to get in contact with us.
And definitely appreciated that.
Pretty awesome.
But yeah, in terms of RadFi, what are we trying to do?
We're trying to build the best place to trade Bitcoin tokens. We're giving the DeFi experience that users expect. And honestly, a lot of our roadmap is redacted at this point. At this point, we are a place to trade existing OG runes. I can tell you we have a lot more planned, a lot more coming that's
going to be getting announced in the coming weeks and months. I'd say in the short term,
something to look forward to is not just OG runes, but we're also running the Bound BUSD
project. And we're going to be the first place to trade dollars against Bitcoin
directly on Bitcoin layer one.
Store your dollars on layer one as a rune.
And yeah, excited to bring that to market.
Should be seeing that next week with some decent liquidity to get started.
Absolutely love that.
That is one thing that is missing from the bitcoin ecosystem
dex is currently is the stable coin kind of being in that uh formula right um quick question for you
you know uh the building on bitcoin is obviously not easy right we know that right but uh it's not
uh the same approach whenever even even cardano has like the AMMs and liquidity pools, but like the EVM side, it's, it's pretty straightforward. Bitcoin, you have to have so
many workarounds that, you know, you're like, do they care about centralization? Is decentralization
what, how do you guys have the energy to keep pushing forward? Because there's a lot of
hurdles that would knock a builder down and say, Hey, is this worth it?
Yeah, no, I mean, great point.
Honestly, I do love it here, though.
I love the challenges.
And I also love the simplicity of Bitcoin.
Like there's only so much you need to consider.
And in terms of like how we approach development, I mean, we're definitely product first people.
Me and my team, we've been in the space for over seven years now, working on, we worked on a layer
one blockchain, but kind of our purpose within that team was building out the app ecosystem. So
we have experience building borrow LEM protocols, CDP, stable coins, AMMs, and, you know, seeing,
you know, what users struggle with, what they like, what they don't like, how to make a good
user experience, and, you know, what people really care about. And I think keeping that as first principles, like what your user sees, what your user experiences
when they come to your app is kind of our mentality. And then in terms of the difficulty
of building on Bitcoin, I think something pretty big just happened recently that I'm sure a lot
of people on this call are excited about is removing the
data limits on OpReturn.
Right now, we came up with a workaround of storing our data in Op12.
It's like a fake SegWit output where we store our data that tells, because we have full
Bitcoin data availability.
So every swap, supply liquidity, withdrawal liquidity, every action that happens on RadFi is encoded in arbitrary data. We have like a, you know, data availability standard essentially for RadFi transactions currently stored in Op12, but now we'll have more space in OpRet return and the ability to build more cool features
and function calls into our data availability.
So, you know, with the challenges come,
you know, the challenges are fun
and also getting a little less restrictive now,
which is good.
Yes, and I'm definitely one of those people
that are excited for that change,
as you know, when we had you on the show,
but, you know, look, part of my job is to pay attention to my crypto Twitter timeline, right?
So it's not going to be a call out, but I did see a post that you had.
And you said there was two big issues with the UX when it comes to kind of trading on Bitcoin, right?
Or two big issues, I guess, for users.
In the Bitcoin ecosystem, yeah.
Yeah, in the Bitcoin ecosystem.
It was UX kind of across the board.
That's important.
UX is very important.
Absolutely.
How does RadFi approach this or even DEXs in general on Bitcoin?
Sure, yeah.
So for us, happy to hear from other guys as well.
But we took the approach of trying to think about how can we execute trades
and update our price quotes as quickly as possible. Because that's what users,
DeFi users are used to, and that's what they expect, especially coming from other ecosystems,
and only want to bring people from other ecosystems into the Bitcoin ecosystem. So
on the UX side, we're thinking about trade execution speed
and trade finality to a user.
And we are able to avoid rollbacks and double spends
by creating, having users deposit into what's called
the RadFi trading wallet for now.
Trying to come up with a better name for that.
But RadFi trading wallet is a two of two multi-sig
between RadFi and the user.
And that enables us to know that they can't double spend and they can't cancel a transaction or replace with a higher fee.
So we're able to update pricing immediately upon signature, letting people trade essentially as many times as they want all within the mempool.
As soon as you execute a trade, your balance is credited.
You can withdraw it to your own wallet. You can trade it for something else. You can do some of
the other features that we'll be building out in our roadmap. So that's what we were thinking about
when it comes to UX. That's one piece of it. And the other piece is coming from with BUSD.
Like the onboarding process into the Bitcoin ecosystem is pretty rough right now.
If I wanted to like get more BTC to buy more ordinals or buy more runes or, you know, trade
around and just get here, get to Bitcoin on chain, the typical best route is either a centralized
exchange or some type of swap like in wallet. In like a Magic Eden wallet, they tend to be like
kind of slow, not very transparent. I mean, a wallet is a wallet and they're not going to be providing the perfect trading experience.
You know, they provide a trading experience to get onto the Bitcoin ecosystem.
So improving the onboarding and offboarding into Bitcoin is also like a key focus of our team.
Gotcha, gotcha. And, you know, also maybe like, you know, having a mobile style app that you can, you know, integrate into a mobile smart wallet would be a better user experience as well, right?
No, I'm just kidding. But, Farks, you got your hand up. What's up, man?
Yeah, I got a question for Scott. Like, I just wanted to pick your brains about what do you think about Oracles and Bitcoin?
I mean, we don't get to see a lot of Oracles and Bitcoin,
but there are teams that are actually working on it
and having a layer 1.2 kind of a solution to solve the Oracles problem.
And I'm pretty sure this is something that you as a DEX builder
and a builder in the space must have encountered.
So what is your take on the Oracle's fund?
Yeah, no, good question.
I mean, I do think as a DEX, we have to worry about it less than somebody like you guys on the BorrowLens side.
You know, we're not going to have to liquidate anybody, which is nice.
which is nice, but thinking off the top of my head on how we would incorporate an Oracle or
support an Oracle with our current protocol and current architecture that we have, we could have
add a way to encode Oracle data into OpReturn and then with full Bitcoin data availability,
any indexer could just query
any indexer, you know, anyone running a Bitcoin node and checking for, you know, the specific
flag of our protocol, for example, could just pick up and say, okay, this is the last trade on RadFi
at this price. You know, for example, let's say when we have our Bitcoin BUSD pool up and running,
BUSD pool up and running, and let's say we have sufficient liquidity that an Oracle would
qualify as safe, if you will, and hard to manipulate, somebody looking for a good Oracle
price could simply build the state of the RadFi AMM pool, the Bitcoin BUSD pool. Based on all of
the trades that have been made, you could
figure out what the state is, what quote we're currently offering. You could maybe do a 30-day
weighted average. So it's hard to manipulate. I think you could use our pricing and trading data
as an Oracle. And all of that data is going to be encoded and saved in Bitcoin,
given our commitment to full Bitcoin data availability.
Absolutely love it.
Fierks, did you have a follow-up?
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yep, yep.
That's a good take, man.
I appreciate that.
Yeah, I mean, I love the fact that like Fierks and Scott,
they've already kind of talked before because they both are building also also on in the arch ecosystem which is part of the bitcoin broader ecosystem but yeah
and guys if you have any questions on stage please raise your hand we love questions also um you know
if you are in the space uh if you could share it you know we want to get as many people in here to
educate them guys on this uh information, right? But yeah,
if anybody has any questions for Scott, let me know, raise your hand, and we'll get your question
up here. But Scott, to kind of, I guess, like transition us to the next speaker here, like
any last words or anything for the audience to maybe in terms of expectations for Red Tie?
Sure. Yeah, I think I'll share one more thing that we plan to announce shortly later today.
So you may have seen that for our first pool, we went to market with PUPs BTC
and we announced the RadFi Strategic Reserve Initiative.
So initially it was just for PUPs.
All fees that RadFi generates on the PUPs BTC trading pool are going to be used to market buy PUPs and hold in our strategic reserve.
And shortly we'll be committing to do that for any OG Rune community that can maintain roughly 50K in TVL on RadFi.
So RadFi will use all fees that we generate to buy your token, put it into our strategic reserve and hold it there for maybe, you know, any sort of community initiatives that you guys want.
You know, if you kind of talk about what you would want the strategic reserve to be for, we could burn it if that's what the community wants.
But, you know, we plan to monetize through other routes and we're committing, you know, the revenue generated from OG ruin pools that maintain certain liquidity to market by their token and add it to our
reserves. So, you know, if anyone wants to learn more about that, shoot me a DM or DM
our official account. Thanks. And this is why I love the Bitcoin ecosystem builders, because
a lot of times you'll see like givebacks or, you know, you don't see too many like anon builders in our space, right?
And it's because people are here to stay and they really do want to give back.
But we appreciate your time, Scott.
Definitely looking forward to the future of RAVFI and what it has to offer the Bitcoin community and ecosystem.
Next, I would love to go to Rune's Dex.
You know, Rune's Dex is another great project in our space.
Like I had mentioned, the original founder of Runesdex has such deep experience of building in the Bitcoin ecosystem different parts of it.
And it is pretty funny.
He said, you know, you have the best tech, but it don't mean shit unless you have the community behind it.
And so he realized that, you runes and ordinals in this
space was really really big uh in terms of a community and momentum so i'm gonna pass it over
to runesdex if you wouldn't mind just breaking down what you guys are about and you know what
you have to offer to the community yo yo goby can you hear me yes sir i and clear. Okay, this is Ord. I have been stealing the Intran's excess for today, and so I'm wrapping
rune stacks for the company. So thank you for having us. Super exciting, man. Scott, you're
right in our alley there with this, we call it strategy runes, you know, just to make Michael Saylor proud.
We actually thought about, we have this token
that we're going to use as a liquidity DAO.
Is this working?
Is the token we issued when we set out on this adventure
to build the first AMM DEX on Bitcoin L1 a year ago, I think.
And now we're going to do something similar.
All the profits from that pool will also
go into rebuying tokens.
And further than that, we will also
have some voting and stuff, probably very similar to what
you have in mind, and introduce staking
and some other really cool features to our platform.
So yeah, that's pretty cool.
Because we also
thought like why not use our profits like uh buy more of the runes like depending on where the
profits have been made in which pool you know and like put it in a liquidity dow and basically
issue the you know issue ownership via the token uh is this working uh what do you think about that
scott yeah no i like it I like it I think like uh you
know at this stage uh we need liquidity we need people to be out there trying things I would love
to see uh some overlapping liquidity pools between RadFi and Runesdex to get some arbitrage going
right arbitrage is better for all of us we get more uh trading volume on our platforms you know we have uh the bitcoin busd pair coming uh busd is
not you know specific to radfi so if you guys uh have any lps that would be interested in you know
doing a safer pair like bitcoin against dollars instead of lp-ing for uh you know runes that have
you know bag holders and such um you know let me know and uh. And I can show you guys how the APIs work on BUSD.
Yeah, I mean, the BUSD thing sounds super interesting.
We've heard of maybe a similar project just recently.
And we were thinking about since runes to runes pools
haven't been done yet.
And we have been cooking a lot in the back.
So in the future, in the next few weeks,
we have so many updates to announce,
trying to hold onto that Bitcoin Vegas hype a little bit
and leave some update breadcrumbs along the way.
But what I wanted to say is some rune to rune pair
would be amazing too.
You said hedging, say is some rune to rune pair would be amazing too you said like hedging bitcoin stable doll stable rune but uh bitcoin or like better dog go to the moon and uh stable
dollar you know so i can like hatch my dogs that would be amazing yeah yeah i mean um we don't
support the uh runes to runes pairs yet either but uh something that's in our roadmap um but yeah i
mean if you guys are
interested, like just so you know, the way BUSD works, very straightforward. We don't have really
any off-chain components, at least in the beginning. You know, we'll probably layer in some RWA backing
once we have more, you know, reserves, maybe once we hit like 10 million in AUM. But initially, it's literally just you have USDC or USDT on another network.
We're starting like the MVP is just Ethereum mainnet.
You can come to the Bound app and convert your USDC one for one to BUSD,
and that'll land in your Bitcoin wallet as a rune.
And then same way, totally redeemable for USDC or USDT, right?
Like we're not touching it.
We're not rehypothicating it.
We're just trying to grow AUM initially.
And then, you know, eventually we'll try and generate some yield
with like a portion of the reserves.
But that's the go-to-market strategy.
Just simple vanilla stablecoin to kind of aggregate stablecoin liquidity into Bitcoin.
Man, I want to see a demo of that.
Yeah, you can check it out.
Beta.bound.money. It's still in testing,
so using your own risk, but it's on
if you wanted to go try it out.
Beta.bound.money.
Awesome. Thank you. Okay, sorry.
Yagobi,
did I answer your question? Sorry.
Yeah, yeah.
So, first of all, what's up, Ord?
I thought it was David, but so glad to hear you, man.
We've definitely been on some calls together.
The thing about what we just heard between you and RadFi is collaboration.
That's what we see a lot of time in these builder spaces.
I think that's needed, especially with the DEX part of the ecosystem,
because at first I think a lot of it was just really fragmented
and saying, who's going to win? Who's going to win?
But we realized pretty quickly in a short period of time,
it's like, okay, we got to first build something kind of that's formidable.
And I think that is kind of working together, you know,
you onboarding a stable and uh kind of you know being
able to to make liquidity strong in the space and sats terminal ties into that down you know
we'll get to to cyclops here in a little bit but like with runes decks you know that experience
from victor and and all those things like how do you guys see the current space where do you see
the future of runes decks like going here in the next three to six months um that that's that's that's a big question so right now obviously with bitcoin recovering
uh above 100k it looks um it's a nice signal you know bitcoin is alive and we might even get to
new all-time highs soon because I mean that's kind of been the
sentiment of Bitcoin crosses back over 100k we likely see a new all-time high very soon and I
think that will mean more liquidity you know more people feeling rich more people might spend on
perceived higher risk assets you know like ordinals andes uh so i think market-wise we are well positioned we we have been
soft releasing our bridge tag we have been working in the background for different bot models for
the whole runes industry also partly with sat's terminal um we have been like also working on an
arbitrage bot in the background for example that would would go cross-chain and is able to arbitrage amongst those fractionalized liquidity pockets you just mentioned.
the liquidity what we have seen over the last month is like yeah there has been like a base
demand and a base group in bitcoin and ordinals that also trades runes right but you kind of can
see from like the size of the holders of certain runes that it never exceeds that bubble so we
need to definitely uh you know open the door uh for uh conversation, just like you are doing, but we will do it on the blockchain, basically, with bridging and finding technologies that invite for more pairs.
You know, like pairs like Runes ERC20 or something even more absurd, like know stable coins to to runes and so on so I think
what we need to do is we need to open all those liquidity gates become very interoperable and
hence more scalable you know but always maintain the focus that we have acquired over the last
year which is which is Bitcoin and Bitcoin assets know, so all comes back to Bitcoin.
We just need to open the doors to everyone else.
Absolutely.
I agree with that 1000% because, you know, Bitcoin is precious.
And a lot of people that are in the space, whether they were hardcore maxis before or
they just, you know, started on on bitcoin went to ethereum came back or
went to another ecosystem come back they don't want to let go of their bitcoin that much but
they will you know uh maybe we could get some of that other liquidity i know you guys have a really
strong plan as well in terms of getting that over and uh whenever you guys are able to kind of go
into that which you know whether that's further down the road i know that that the community is going to be excited about that uh one one last question i have for you and again anybody on the stage that
wants to ask or from runes next question just put your hand up but my my last question for you
because i know a little bit of your background you have a little bit of maximalism in you but you
you've definitely opened your mind because you're you're here uh how do you feel about the op return
kind of uh you know debate that's happening right now because it're here. How do you feel about the op return kind of debate
that's happening right now?
Because technically it could help you
as a builder.
But what's your take on it?
Yeah, good one.
I think it goes back always
to fees are the filter.
That's my theory there.
If you want to spend on on the you know bigger
data set on bitcoin then you should be allowed to and for me that's the base of libertarianism
right like uh it's your money it moves when you want it to move and want it to move and
not at any other given moment not if the government does does it, not if like if no one, no one can define whatever is valuable to you.
And if you think that you want to store that data there, then I think you should be able to.
I believe there are some things that people are upset with that is besides the point, right?
Like the manner in which stuff has been done.
which stuff has been done.
And there is this core around Bitcoin Noughts and Luke Dash Jr.
that has been anti-Ardonals from the beginning.
I mean, you know, we always have Luddites.
It's just always a healthy system needs those so we can actually,
you know, be grateful and value tradition,
but also move away from it in order to find new ground.
Yeah, 100%.
It's kind of like a checks and balances, involuntary checks
and balances a little bit, I guess you could say.
Yeah, the immune system.
Yeah.
There you go.
There you go.
But yeah, definitely appreciate your input, Ord. If you wouldn't mind, maybe, you know, giving some last words on what to be excited about for the next step for Runesdex to the audience, and then we'll move on to the next speaker.
much faster than we have been with some intra mempool trading tech we're coming up we will be
supporting much much bigger swaps as well we have like a new multi-sig concept coming to increase
security for uh lps we have um we have been working with custodians in the background to
mitigate risk for bigger lps to come onto the platform as well. We have been working on, on partnerships, um,
so together with partners like Sats Terminal that reach outside of the, uh,
ruins industry. Um, so yeah, I mean, the platform is going to be updated.
We have a launch pad, we have a bridge, we have bots cooking. Uh,
we're going to integrate with other networks and pretty soon.
And, and you stay tuned for announcements.
I guess that's all I can say right now.
Appreciate you, Ord, for spending your time
and really just breaking down and educating the audience here.
We look forward to hearing more about Rune's decks here in the near future.
All right, guys.
Like I said, if you do have any questions,
please don't hesitate to raise your hand.
If you're in the audience, you're not on stage,
maybe today will be your first time to ask a question.
Don't be scared.
We are friendly.
We're not going to bite up here.
But I'd like to go to Louis Lu, if hopefully I pronounced
that correct.
And I believe you are representing Rich Swap.
Is that correct? Yes. And I believe you are representing Rich Swap. Is that correct?
Yes. Yes.
And yeah, Lewis.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Okay.
Awesome.
Awesome.
So Rich Swap is intriguing to me because I do know that you guys use the ICP tech stack.
So if you wouldn't mind kind of getting into Rich Swap, how you guys work, what are your goals for the Bitcoin ecosystem and being this tool and application?
Sure. So Reswap is the team. We call itself Omnity Network.
Essentially, we have an infrastructure project built on ICP.
So you guys may know that ICP has a tech stack called Chain Fusion.
And essentially, there are two major components built for Bitcoin Builder. One is called ChainKey. It's a MPC-TSS key that enables any smart contract
on ICP to generate key and use it to sign anything, including Bitcoin transaction. And the other, let's say, tools is called Bitcoin subnet or Bitcoin
native integration. It's a dedicated subnet that with 11 nodes each pair with his own
Bitcoin node. So this subnet can reach consensus on which is the canonical chain of Bitcoin and then
they maintain updated UTex source site in a smart contract and provide API to other
those sites in a smart contract and provide API to other ICP smart contract.
So through this Bitcoin native integration, ICP smart contract can read UTXO data on-chain
and broadcast Bitcoin transaction through this bitcoin subnet so it these two components essentially make
uh bitcoin application on icp relatively easy and uh omiti we migrate or the indexer to icp
indexer to ICP run or Rd as a smart contract on ICP. So it brings rings support to all the
ICP ecosystem. You guys may know that the new version of FlashStone from Equidium built on SAP. And this implementation rely on Omniti's
on-chain ruins indexer.
And also Omniti provide Bitcoin and ruins bridge
to many layer tool, including ICP itself,
is just a lock Bitcoin asset,
chain key address controlled by Omiti smart contract,
and then mint Riper token on layer tool.
And so the hardest, the biggest Bitcoin application on ICP is Oling Fun built by Bob Bodley's team.
And Oling Fun use Omniti cross-chain bridge to add rules on Bitcoin and then bring all the supply to ICP.
So Odinfan can distribute these runes on ICP to their meme coin traders.
It totally sums up to more than 60 million runes,
It sums up to more than 60 million runes,
majorly etched by Oling Fan,
logged on Omniti Bridge.
And so we have these two infrastructure runes indexer,
Omniti inter-ability protocol, and then we build an execution layer, we call it REE,
ruins exchange environment. Essentially, it's like enable ICP smart contract to, let's say, call sign a bitcoin transaction with user and and uh uh to to show up that the capability
uh we build uh uh the first application it is the original of uh risk swap so it's a long story yeah
yeah yeah no i mean you did really great there and i think it's uh you know
icp is definitely a unique approach because uh the way they built icp can actually read bitcoin
and there's this co-processing kind of uh approach to it right and so um i guess you know uh i i i
have a question in terms of like the ecosystem but before I get to my question, I'm going to call on Guido real quick.
Go ahead, Guido.
Yeah, look, we were fortunate enough to meet with the ICP team today.
The protocol that they're providing is really, really interesting.
I looked through the audience that we've got today, and I see a lot of Cardano folks here.
You know, obviously, cross-chain is a massive narrative
and we've always held a view at Tokyo that we want interoperability
and we want the ability for people to be able to do, say,
a single swap dog for a Snek token or, you know,
we're very close to launching on sui as well and we see
opening those pathways and bridges to be so important for for ecosystem health for us all
um a lot of people feel really insular about um about their own ecosystem but i i urge people to
break down those barriers because when we do that we invite the flow of users into like bitcoin will
always be the king you know um it has the most liquidity but i start seeing layers like icp
providing computing power um and the ability um to even if it is in the form of a voucher and
sending instructions via a bitcoin uh by by a bitcoin signal to then redeem that voucher for a token on another platform,
that is health. And look, I'm incredibly buoyed by that. And I was so stoked after the call with
ICP today. And we spoke to a C-suite representative there who was keen to get Tokyo into their
ecosystem. but we spent
most of the time talking about how we can create this interoperability and you know look i can i
just in the middle of the call i'm saying that you know what the community here is doing is is so
great you know bitcoin was never supposed to have these kind of, you know, these kind of protocols or layers built on it,
but we're building it anyway.
And we're creating that interoperability and it's projects like,
oh, it's blockchains like ICP that are making that happen.
And, you know, I think I'm incredibly bullish.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
And you're right, you know, and it's because the limitations of Bitcoin, but we're okay because Bitcoin is the most secure chain. So these other layer ones are saying, hey, we can help with the that hour and we want to we need to get to that terminal but i have this question i want to get to you uh you know everybody's excited about what icp can do
but do you see the builder ecosystem of icp bitcoin builder ecosystem do you see that
continually growing or do you feel like it's a limited interest right now oh yeah it's definitely taking off besides the team I mentioned,
Oling Fun, Liquidium.
We work with a few other team.
For example, Blockminer is a POS type meme coin launchpad
built on ICP.
And actually our, for now,
most of the trading volume on reswap
coming from Bminer meme coin.
And we announced a strategic partnership with Bitonomy.
It's an ICP Bitcoin project with, I think, more than two years history.
They decided to build a new Game 5 protocol called Tachi on RE,
our open source free to use execution layer.
And there are others. We hold a camp in Zurich a month before.
And I think there are totally 15 around project and about about half of them uh uh related with bitcoin so there's a lot
builder jumping in the cycle i love it i love to hear that and we're doing something different in
the bitcoin ecosystem not to say the other chains or anything or less or whatever but we have to do
it different here.
And other layers and builders, really talented builders and projects are coming over here.
And I absolutely love it.
But, Lewis, we are thankful for you to spend your time.
And for all the builders, too, if you haven't had an interview or anything with On Chain Revolution, you're always welcome.
We are here for builders.
That's what we try to encourage is to get your guys name out there we want to definitely help you guys to be able to be
known if you are new to the ecosystem but we're going to finish it up here with cyclops our guy
from sats terminal uh sats terminal is an aggregator deck swap so all the swaps here you
know want to work with that server because they're, you know, helping them get users in a sense. So Cyclops, could you kind of, you know, introduce yourself,
Sats Terminal and what Sats Terminal is bringing to the Bitcoin ecosystem?
Yeah. So it's like really simple. It's if you think of like one inch, we have a lot of card
on our folks here. It's Dex Hunter or on on jupiter uh for solana it's it's basically
we're an aggregator for all the runes dexes out here which is like a really exciting time because
we went through a long long period without liquidity pools and so it was just order book
dexes and that was exactly like the early days of cardano when defy started coming up and so now we we're starting to have the um the lps like runes decks
dot swap um and then we have trad fi which is coming up with theirs and so it's like a really
exciting time the only problem is that like we kind of hit this lull in the market and so like
it's just a matter of like bringing it in and there was like a narrative going that like runes were a liquid and people can't sell and so it was just really exciting to be able to
help out everybody to to sell and then have everything kind of cohesed together so that
because i think um it's also like what tokyo was talking about with um cross-chain like you know
like i came from carano and i was like we're too much of an island in the sun.
And I think a lot of crypto ecosystems are like that.
And I think when you look at the bigger totality of like mass adoption and everything, it's I'm more of the belief that like I don't think anybody solved anything.
But like when the whole when all the chains kind of work together,
it does work as like a bit,
one big financial system.
And so like,
I think,
and like,
if you just think like,
I think people will just need to think bigger in terms of like,
like,
let's say that we have mass adoption.
Like we need all the chains in total to actually build a handle that load. So like,
I like that,
that idea of thinking because otherwise it's just like people fighting and I don't think it's really friendly to like when people aren't working
together, it's not really friendly to the end user, especially if somebody's new.
So like, I like, I like that.
That's the stuff that gets me kind of interested.
And so, you know, like working with all the Dexes,
it's been really fun because a lot of them
are just such brilliant builders, like on their own.
Like I think RadFi has their own way to do,
to reduce double spends.
Runes Dex was like one of the earliest ones on the scene.
Same with Dotswap.
And like, I like also having just many DEXs because
when we aggregate it when there's many different DEXs it also makes the trading experience faster
on L1 which is the ultimate goal so it's like all these things so i it's just been a blast because
the whole Bitcoin ecosystem it's exactly like what mr guido said it's like very welcoming
they're very they're very friendly to be able to to bring in new people and like on the builder end
like there's not that much animosity between people people are all just like happy to work together
which is like a really fun environment to be in and so like i'm just grateful to be here
100 and um i feel like it's you see it even more the past i would say three to six months
because uh you know i think a lot of builders are realizing that hey look um people have to try
different things people have to kind of throw some ideas against the wall and what sticks is gonna
say okay this works for this approach this works works for that approach. But what the Bitcoin ecosystem in terms of like this Bitcoin DeFi approach, right, has done, it's like you have
your EVM builders, you have your EVM ecosystem, you have your SVM ecosystem. But what Bitcoin has
done is very unique. It's actually promoted multi-chain more than any other chain. And if
you look across the board, like you have people from different,
like Arch Network's gonna be a new one.
That's gonna be a scaling solution that's partially native,
partially the Arch side.
Then you have the Cardano side of utilizing the Cardano
UTXO chain and a bridge coming and stuff like that as well.
ICP, we know we have near protocol coming in.
So it's bringing a lot of builders together that are really smart and saying, hey, how can we make this thing work?
And so Cyclops, you know, you have some old OG maxis that don't like what we're talking about right now, like the laser, laser, like, do you think, like, nothing's going to stop this movement?
Because we haven't seen a movement like this in Bitcoin building out the DeFi ecosystem ever before.
I mean, I think whatever the maxis are, it's like, it's also, I think it's what Scott said.
It's like, you want that diversity of opinion.
Or I think it was RuneStacks or Doucher.
You want that diversity of opinion so
like i don't want them not to exist right but it's it's it can't be the predominant force and
when it's when one voice kind of just rules the whole thing i think that's when it becomes
a problem like which i'm usually against and so like you know like i think it's just, it's kind of an inevitability because we need transactions to happen on L1.
Even all the L2s are helping enhance in the long-term transactions on L1.
So it's just like I kind of see, and it's a really fun environment because it is kind of like in Ellis Island right now of people from chains.
And so like there's like a whole bunch of
eth builders there's a whole bunch of solana builders and it's kind of like everybody just
dropping their differences to to all work together which i think is like really awesome um so like
in some ways it could you could think of like the maxis as like right now the ultra laser eyes as
like kind of like the that old guard who was in.s and then from like the pilgrims and then
now there's like ellis island in like the 20s or something like like 1800s and so like
they're not going to not have a voice but they're not going to like rule the whole thing
and you know like um i mean like michael Saylor recently wrote about Bitcoin yield.
So I don't know.
Like, I think that possibly they're going to turn around.
But like, inevitably, like after halvings happen, like it's like unless you like you can't survive off of like a one like sat per VB mempool.
Like it's not going to happen like over the long term so it's just like they're
gonna come around to be a little bit more friendly at some point but um i mean it seems like michael
sailor is starting to open his eyes at least yeah yeah yeah for sure the 13 uh interest uh or apr
earned is definitely uh juicy but uh uh. But final word here, Cyclops,
what's something exciting to look forward to
with that terminal next?
We are very blessed to have some really awesome partnerships
that are going to come forward soon.
Our Amber program is going to be built out more
to be like a normal farming thing
so that you don't just have to have money
to spend through the platform to earn points.
It's open to really anyone who wants to help us
spread the word and join our discords.
Some more gaming that we're going to try to do.
Like we're trying to get better
with like organizing some of those events.
And then we will have a presence at Bitcoin Las Vegas,
which should be fun let's go i
love the amber points part and because they are an aggregator i know there's a lot of double dipping
opportunities because these other dex platforms they have their own version of that amber their
point systems and stuff like that uh appreciate you cyclops it's always a pleasure um we are uh
kind of getting uh we are at the end of this
segment but uh shizzy you got your hand up what's up brother yeah man this is absolutely awesome
the the amount of builders and the guys here man are just absolutely awesome and i just want to let
the audience know because these guys aren't going to say it but there's a lot of projects up here
and in the bitcoin ecosystem they're going to be given back whether it's airdrops or you know doing
doing stuff for for the community and it's just absolutely awesome that's one thing about this bitcoin community
that's unlike any other community right um is the amount of airdrops that we've received already
and the amount of airdrops that are potentially coming in the future i mean just take a look
every every every team up here wants to give back to their community every team up here
wants to just they they want to build the most amazing communities in bitcoin and i think we're
going to see some of the best projects uh spoke today. So absolutely awesome. And guys, remember with Tokyo Wallet,
man, there's really cool quests there. You know, who knows what happens with those quest points,
but I'm really excited about knocking out my quest points. So yeah, I just want to say that as well.
Yeah, definitely. Check out the quest points, download the wallet from the Apple App Store,
Definitely. Check out the Quest Points, download the wallet from the Apple App Store as well as Google Play.
And this blitz of spaces and education, it's not stopping.
Tomorrow we are going to continue this at the same time, which is 2 p.m. Eastern.
But I'm going to pass it over to Guido for the final words here.
What a first space. So great. Great builders, great people, great commentary, intelligence.
This is our first of, so this is one of 16 spaces we have over the next 10 days, spaces and streams.
Our job is to educate, fascinate facilitate and and open bitcoin for people and
and you know we we all have an opportunity to do that um let's use this time and use these spaces
to you know bring awareness to bitcoin and also maybe some folks can learn some stuff
um we're thrilled to be here and we we just want to thank everyone in the community for having us
We're thrilled to be here and we just want to thank everyone in the community for having us and for embracing us.
And we look forward to the next 15 slots.
There's so much great stuff coming down the pipe.
Spaces cover everything from VCs to staking.
You know, it goes on.
The list goes on and on.
So join us, folks.
And thanks a lot for having us.
Appreciate it.
Absolutely, guys.
So just a quick shout-out to all the builders and speakers on the stage.
Shout-out to RadFi.
Shout-out to Cha-Ching.
Shout-out to Rich Swap, to Sats Terminal, to Runes Dex,
to all the great speakers on the space.
And we will see you guys here tomorrow at the same time.
But we're going to be going over staking, and's going to be uh 2 p.m eastern and uh we will catch you guys
on the flip side peace Thank you.
