Projects
![]()
No projects found
Investors
New
DAO Treasuries
DATs
Lend / Borrow APRs
Chains
Categories
Spaces
BITCOIN VS MEMECOINS: Millions Made, People Scammed
Recorded: May 12, 2023 Duration: 4:42:58Space Recording
Short Summary
The discussion covers various crypto-related topics, including project launches like Satoshi Roundtable and AR-toner, partnerships with major brands, fundraising efforts, and emerging trends in tokenized real estate and meme coins. The conversation also touches on growth in community engagement and skepticism towards meme coins, reflecting both positive and negative sentiments in the market.
Full Transcription
This music is annoying.
Can you hear me?
Lala, can you hear me?
I can hear you.
Can you put some nice music
because this Twitter music is horrible.
Hopefully a new CEO changes it.
Can you,
do you have new music you can hook up?
I'll try to find a little something.
All right, you got to be quick.
Let me start sending out.
What did Sam Altman tweet?
All right, Slime Man, what's up, man?
Hey, man.
So you're usually by my side when we host spaces with fucking people on the ground in the war in Ukraine or Chinese politicians or fucking Mark Cuban and Blackman.
And now I'm bringing you to a Web 3 space.
I know you're a Web 3 expert.
So it's going to be a good learning lesson for you, huh?
Yeah, for sure.
Actually, actually, let me ask you.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Sure, sure, sure.
Let me ask you a question.
When I first say, when I say meme coins, what does that mean to you?
It means a bunch of nerds, no, I'm joking.
From what I understand, from meme coin, it is basically like one of these lay-mask fake coins that don't have any kind of legitimate value.
Okay, good.
Which nerds are used to make money on.
Most people don't know, you're a good friend of Tate.
So what does Tate think about this shit?
I mean, from what I know, he sees it as a scam.
He's been offered many opportunities to be part of a crypto and advertise it,
and he sees it as a manipulation.
Now, again, I'm not an expert in this area whatsoever.
I have minimal knowledge on it.
So essentially, he could be talking about a certain aspect as opposed to in total.
Bro, it's pretty lame answer.
Let me send out the invite.
Bro, let's get the crew together.
Lala, you've got...
First of all, why am I doing this ball talk?
Like, that's my rule.
I don't do this.
Uh, uh, music is here, bro.
Music here.
Too bad.
We are family.
See, we don't do this shit
We don't do this shit in our
We're together
We're together as we walk on
and we fly just like
both of a feather
I just muted Lala
Yeah, you're right, bro
that's a bit too much, man
My reputation is going to get fucked
after this space
How am I going to get senators
on space after this shit?
All right, let me co-host
Lala and Fidji
So everyone knows Fiji
co-host the spaces on the roundtable
and joins us
in a lot of the AI spaces that we do
and Lala, that will be the first time
she co-hosts with us
Lala, thanks for doing this,
really appreciate it.
We're just sending out the invites
Bruce, how are you?
Great. How's it going? Thanks for having me here.
Good, man. Good. How's the Satoshi Roundtable going?
Maybe give a quick intro for the, for people in the world that you're not a fan of outside the Bitcoin world, outside the real OGs from 20, from 1995 before Bitcoin launched.
Give him an update on the Satoshi Roundtable, man, and how things have been. What do you guys do in the bear markets?
Yeah.
Yeah, so Satoshi Roundtable is an event that we've hosted.
We just launched for the 10th year, which will be this coming February.
So that's a long time in this space.
So it's kind of cool.
You know, we've sort of seen everything.
And I'm proud of it because it's.
Well, it's a great topic for this topic because it's kind of like, you know, meme coins versus Bitcoin.
One of the things I've been proud about the roundtable is that it's sort of brought together, everybody.
You know, it's the only event where you had like, you know, for O.Gs will remember, you know, Roger Veer, Gavin Andreessen, and Adam Back.
They were there all the same year one time with, you know, Peter Todd, Brian Armstrong.
You know, we've had like pretty much all the exchange heads, you know, all the people who've created different coins like Charles Hoskinson and Vitalik and.
You know, people like CZ, you know, you know, we had Justin's son and NBK took a selfie together, you know, so we have like people that wouldn't normally get together that do.
So I'm proud of that.
You know, I think it's good.
I tried to design an event that I would like to go to, you know, and that's sort of what we...
My friend, my friend, Gora, every time he goes, he's one of his favorite events.
So he speaks very highly of you guys.
and I appreciate it coming on.
Dennis, how are you?
So the way I've structured this space, this panel,
and I haven't done a crypto space in a while for obvious reasons,
but the way I've structured this panel is I wanted to get like just...
With all honesty, I'm pretty critical of meme coins,
but for anyone that knows how I run my spaces,
I do them with an open mind.
And then again, I've been proven wrong.
We did a Dogecoin space, Matt Wallace was there.
I think that's one, the first time then,
no, that's not when Elon joined, not the first time,
but we did it, I think before that,
we did a Dogecoin space.
I was critical, yet I'm open about the value
of communities building an ecosystem,
as long as it's decentralized.
Dogecoin is the perfect example of this.
But I'm still critical.
I still see meme coins as just a massive pump and dumb schemes.
I've never invested in a meme coin because I probably lose money.
I don't know how to trade.
That's me personally.
My team, they probably do it well in their own time.
So that's how I see meme coins or shit coins, whatever you don't call it.
I don't know about Fiji.
I think it's in a similar boat.
Lala, you're more open to the concept of shit coins and meme coins, correct?
And the concept of communities building an ecosystem.
open to it, Mario.
I freaking love meme coins.
The space is alive for the first time in a while.
Never seen this much activity ever.
So I'm excited to break it down with you guys.
I've been hanging out in Pepe spaces and all types of spaces for days at this point.
Yeah, well, Lala, if you're going to be that positive,
I think your days as a co-house will probably be out, you know, pretty limited.
I know.
You and bitch are going to beat it out of me.
Yeah.
And just so you know, co-hosts, don't bring anyone up, just DM in the group,
because we do have a panel that's going to be brought up gradually.
But let's kick this off.
So we do have, Pauli, you've been extremely fucking active with Pepe.
The audience here is, obviously you've got the DGens that will be joining to understand what Pepe is
and get into the weeds, they know the backstory, they know the internal politics,
and that doesn't include me.
And then you've got people that are more mainstream that don't understand the whole concept of meme coins.
So maybe kicking it off, what is Pepe and how the fuck did it get to a billion dollars?
Mario, thanks for having me.
I appreciate you sharing your platform with me.
I'll introduce myself on Pauly.
I'm terminally online.
I'm a professional memer.
And I'm a big part of the Pepe community and I'm grateful to be here.
I reject the label of Pepe as a shit coin and as a meme coin because there really is no difference between Pepe and all of the most elite projects in the crypto space.
and I believe that the data supports this.
So I just want to put that out front.
And I also want to say that everyone should take what I say with a grain of salt and everyone on this panel.
You know, I don't believe that there's anyone in here who's like a undisputed expert of any of this stuff.
But I do appreciate you sharing your platform, like you said, and being able to have an open discourse about it.
And I think it's important that everyone's face open-minded.
I'm super bullish on this movement and this community,
but that doesn't mean that I couldn't be wrong.
And, but I will say this.
So far, I've been extremely right.
I called Pepe on the timeline at about, let's just say, half a million dollar market cap.
So every single person who took that play, if they put $1,000 in there, a millionaire right now.
All right.
So, so.
So we do have, Dennis, Bruce, I will need you, and Brian need you to back me up on this because it's going to be pretty...
pretty interesting debate.
And I'll need you to back me up on the argument
and being critical of meme coins as well
to kind of balance it out.
To kick it off, I just want to thank the sponsors.
We do have sponsors for every...
It's not a meme.
So we'll dig into this on what makes a meme coin.
Maybe we'll start with what makes a meme coin.
Before that, let me give a shout out to the sponsors
before I forget.
The first one is Art, R-A.
AR toner, T-O-N-A-R.
So they use AI to create images and image art to assemble full collections.
They've created full AI-generated 3D and 2D collections in seconds.
So it's a VC-back project.
It's incubated by C-D-FI.
It's one I think we're invested in or we're working with.
So sponsor number one, AR-toner.
I've tweeted...
All the sponsors, I put them into a thread.
So everyone in the audience, there's about 4,000 people already in.
So I've just shared it at the top.
You can go through all the sponsors.
That's the first one.
The second one is K4 Rally, they're a blockchain rally racing game.
They say they're the first as well.
They've got real race drivers.
They're backed by a rally community.
So they're deep in the rally community.
They've got a lot of big brand partnerships.
So I'm talking here about projects.
VC-backed projects, startups building out a business.
So we're moving away from meme coins,
not referring to Pepe, just meme coins in general.
The third one is Alpha Pro Club.
They're backed by real business.
So they've got exotic car rentals.
And I think they're using an NFT and they're
going to be pitching later on to create a membership club.
So if you want to rent an exotic car or luxury experience,
you can join their membership club.
I'm guessing it's NFT backed.
You could check out Alpha Pro Club as part of the thread.
And the other two, one of them is USPC official.
They've sponsored the show before.
They're at tokenized real estate.
So you could access, you know, invest in real estate with little amount of money.
It's a security token.
So go, you know, follows all regulations.
You can check them out. USPC official.
They're part of the thread.
And the last one, I know the founder well here,
Open Games Builders.
The founder's an incredible fucking hustler.
And they're building a Metaverse that's focused on education and gaming.
OG Games Builders.
Check out the thread.
Choose your best sponsor who you prefer out of all of them.
They'll be pitching later on.
You could do a vote as well.
And I'll be giving away awards for random, I think five winners.
We'll be giving away $1,000.
for people that comment with the best explanation on their favorite project.
So I want to go back to the topic.
Fiji and Lala, maybe you can kick it off and then we'll kick it off to the panel.
Fiji, how do you describe meme coins? Like what makes a meme coin?
That's a good starting point for the mainstream audience before we get into the weeds.
I think there's three ways to kind of look at tokens and
trying to keep it consumable.
There's kind of a core difference between crypto and NFTs.
A large part of that has been the human behind it.
And what I think meme coins do is attempt to capture memetics in a human form.
In a way, so for those who know, NFT projects,
they are individualized separate images, right, with layers that create the 10,000, 5,000, 2,000 collection.
Those are non-fundable tokens because they're individualized to it for just layman conversation.
Crypto has sometimes attaches to an image.
So Doge attached to an image, but it created a community out of a singular image.
There isn't any utility this promise.
There's no roadmap.
It exists as a form of community connection,
which is an interesting correlation between NFTs and crypto.
That's how I look at it.
So, Dennis, like, I can't see meme coins other than pump and dumps.
But then when I say that, you look at Doge,
and Doge kind of proved me wrong and proved many of us wrong.
It is a community.
It still exists.
Elon just put it as an icon on Twitter.
Obviously, the price and the market cap speaks for itself.
Does that show that, and we've got Doge coin ride and Matt Wallace here,
so I'm going to give them the mic in a bit, but before that,
because I know they'll be positive about Doge.
I'm not sure maybe they'll say it's not a meme coin anymore.
But is there an argument for us that have been in the space for a long time,
and I invest in startups, and even those are looked upon by some Bitcoin OGs,
in a negative light and some don't even like Ethereum.
When you go down all the way to meme coins, how do you look at it?
So at the core, there's a conviction flywheel, right?
And does, and these are just my opinion, it's not financial, not legal advice at all.
But certain tokens, basically at the end of the day when you call pump it up,
it's does the person think that the person to their left or right is going to sell before you sell?
Well, that's what meme coins, but bro, that's what meme coins are.
And like even people that support meme coins.
Like, I want to get Dennis's thoughts right after you as well.
I want to get some Bitcoin OGs to speak about it.
But that's what meme coins are.
Like I don't, and I know other speakers will make the argument against that, including Lala.
But that's what all of them are.
And I just feel like Doge is just like a fluke.
So is it, is to me or if you go ahead.
Why is Bitcoin not a not?
Why is what's different about Bitcoin?
How old is Bitcoin, by the way?
Dennis, do you want to take that one?
How would you compare, or Bruce,
how would you compare Bitcoin to a meme coin?
Well, I mean, the.
For me, oftentimes when I'm looking at any sort of crypto, whether it be something that
is trying to solve a utility problem or various other issue, is what is that problem that
token solves or that coin solves? And so for me, I have an easy time trying to explain the
problems that Bitcoin solves, which has been around since 2009. It is the oldest
I would say functioning crypto that exists.
There are projects that existed or predated.
Bitcoin, which have since failed.
And Bitcoin has gone on to live on and obviously be very successful.
But Bitcoin solves many monetary issues that we have in the world today that exist.
It gives people the ability to own a form of money that can't be debased or centrally controlled.
by whether that be central banks or governments.
Throughout history, whenever we have allowed for money to be centrally controlled
and debased by central authorities, they have done it to the point where they will break that money
and really, really bad, horrible things happen when we break the money.
We don't need to look too far back in history to see several really key examples of
A couple of them all name,
so we don't have to sit here and talk about history all day,
but I think history is important
because we're talking about changing money fundamentally.
So if you go back to the Roman Empire,
they debased their silver coin,
which is called a denari,
down to a fraction of a percent
of what its original weight was.
And eventually it became so debased
that Roman soldiers were unwilling
to defend militarized borders because of that.
Dennis, I'm not on the question.
But Bitcoin started on a story,
started on a narrative.
I remember in 08 when Bitcoin started,
it's like fighting the establishment.
Meme coins are started,
and you're gonna hear a few narratives here as well
as we got other panelists to speak.
It starts as a narrative.
And then Bitcoin evolved to what it is today,
but no one knew is gonna get there.
Is the narrative enough to build that?
If it's decentralized and it's based on the narrative,
can't any coin end up being another version of Bitcoin
with just different use cases?
Again, me even comparing meme coins.
I'd like to clarify there's a difference between anti-establishment and sovereignty.
No, there's not.
Fiji, if you're not making...
Also, guys, I just want to...
I just want to just want to just...
Because I ask how old Bitcoin is,
and I want to step back for a second
because Bitcoin, what is it?
Is that 15 years?
So, like, basically imagine if a 15-year-old
was, like, up here, like, trying to...
Just, like, imagine who a 15-year-old is, right?
And, like, whatever you think about them,
you know, like, if they're smart,
they're 15 years old.
Okay, so I don't really appreciate like the idea of a 15 year old.
It's like speaking on with such authority about anything.
Like they're they're just 15.
Like that's okay.
Sure.
They could be the they won a, they won the math.
Yeah, but you're missing the fundamental paradigm shift,
which is that Bitcoin is solving a,
all of human time, all of human history for the length that we've been using money,
solving that problem.
So it's not just a 15-year project.
Humans have been trying to perfect money for hundreds of thousands of years,
and we've now done it, and to look at it and go, well, that's not good enough.
It's just kind of almost like disrespectful to the fact that we've gotten this far.
It's a massive evolution.
What's your thought on meme coins, though?
I don't have a problem with Minkoines.
I'm just saying that Bitcoin is a fundamental paradigm shift for human society.
So then it's moving away from Bitcoin.
Dennis, moving away from Bitcoin because it's hard to argue against Bitcoin
unless you want to try to get attention.
I think we all agree on that.
So moving away from Bitcoin, are you, so do you think,
it's like I'll tell you my position.
I haven't touched Memecoins.
We've never,
my company's never incubated or worked with any meme coins.
We're starting to look at it for the first time.
But like we're having a lot of debates internally.
For you to say, like I didn't expect you to say this.
For you to say I don't have a problem with meme coins.
Does that mean you think meme coins could have a use case?
You think decentralized communities based on a token could build, could create value, could solve a problem.
And then we're going to shift to Dochecoin after that because it'll be a good example.
But Dennis, is that what you mean by that or am I putting words in your mouth?
What I mean by when I say I don't have a problem with meme coins is that I don't moralize the space.
There's a lot of people that are bitcointers that consider themselves to be maximalists.
I would say that I'm about as maximalist as you can be without being an absolute asshole.
So I just don't really have an issue if people want to have a meme coin.
They want to have their own community token.
that's up to them. And I'm not going to sit here and moralize whether they should or should not do that.
So I don't have a problem with me in coins in that sense. I don't personally find them interesting.
I don't personally find them valuable. But if people attribute value to them, that's their own prerogative to do so.
And I will not.
Dennis, as time, but Dennis, the way I feel Dennis, and I want someone to jump in that's going to be more critical, because it's, it's interesting.
Because how I feel, I'll be, yeah, but Joe, before you get critical, I'll tell you how I feel, man.
Um, like, I feel like I'm the fucking idiot. Um,
And I feel the same now about NFTs.
When NFTs were pumping, I didn't touch them throughout the entire bull market.
I'm like, fuck this, it just looks too shade.
I had a whole bunch of reasons.
I'm sure everyone has reasons why not to touch them.
And then at the end of the day, I'm the idiot afterwards that came in and now loves the concept of
NFTs and understands NFTPs.
Am I the idiot again saying no to meme coins?
Because for them to pump now after FTX, after everything we saw,
after regulators started taking action,
to see meme coins pumped, to see the same influences that received SEC notices
to talk about meme coins and promote them,
it just makes me look like the idiot.
Mario, can I jump in?
So, you know, this is interesting because we're having obviously like some maxis here,
and I'm a bit of a Pepe Maxi, but I want to like sort of put something out here and tell me if you guys agree.
When we talk about meme coins, the only reason that we are having a discussion with you, Mario,
and having this huge scale platform to share about it is because of Pepe.
Pepe started a meme coin frenzy, and to compare it to all these other projects,
doesn't make any sense, but that being said, I want to say this, that...
I think that we're going to have the most productive conversation if we focus on the things that we like respect and admire about both sides of the discussion.
So for example, like Bitcoin, there's absolutely no denying that Bitcoin is a paradigm changer.
It's something that completely changed the status quo.
It changed the entire world globally.
Change the finance system.
It changed all of our lives.
Otherwise, we wouldn't be here.
Now, that being said, I have mad respect for Bitcoin, but at the same time, I think that it's ridiculous to be a maxi and to be a boomer and think that you can't improve upon something just because it did change the status quo.
Now, that being said, I think that people who are Bitcoin maximalists absolutely have to respect.
Let me finish real quick, Dennis. I'm almost done. People who people who...
understand what Pepe's doing have to respect that Pepe is shattering its own status quo,
shattering its own paradigm in a completely different way. Like Mario said, we're doing
numbers that are absolutely unheard of.
Yeah, but I'm almost done. I'm almost done. We're doing numbers that are absolutely unheard of
and even Huobi global came into one of our community spaces with thousands of people and
told us that on some centralized exchanges Pepe was already doing more volume than Bitcoin
was, which is absolutely impossible. But the question, the
question I haven't we gonna move I like how you strategically move to Pepe so
so really well articulated Joe I want to go to you but the question I have
actually Joe like everything that Paulie said the only bits of value that he
mentioned I'm sure there's gonna be others and Paulie I don't put words in your
mouth I'll give you the mic in a bit to talk more about Pepe and to debate that
but again volume and price
If that's the only use case, and if you go into the groups, I remember the bull market,
when you go into those groups, groups where everyone's talking, when moon, when moon, why is the price going down?
It's not a community.
No, no, I'm not talking about Pepe.
I'm talking in general, in general, in general, not Pepe.
Pepe communities could be different, I haven't looked into it, so I'll try to understand it here.
But Joe, like, if you only look at the price, if you only look at the volume, that makes it into a pump and dump group, I'm talking general here, not Pepe, because obviously we haven't looked into Pepe.
So, when I get your thoughts, Joe, I know you were speaking earlier,
and then I want to move to Dogecoin, get Matt Wallace and Dogecoin official Dogecoin right.
And by the way, everyone, we are going to have pitches later on and two of them,
I haven't mentioned which two yet.
We're going to have two meme coins pitched for the first time ever to try to be, to have an open mind.
But we're going to criticize them very objectively.
If we like them, we like them, if we don't, we're going to criticize them very heavily as we always do.
But Joa, your thoughts on what we just heard from Pauli.
Yeah, I mean, I have a very different view on meme coins.
I kind of look at them like the wonder cure supplement of the medical world, right?
Where I know you're into biohacking, Mario, so it's like David Sinclair was talking about NNN and how...
St. Clair's a friend, man.
Big shout out to Sinclair.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, and then NMN, I'm all about it now.
So I use it.
So some of these wonder cures do will actually wind up becoming something strong.
Most of them are off the shelf within a few months, right?
Most meme coins are shit coins.
It's 100% true.
I think there is a shift.
when you get to the math like Dogecoin had,
where they had so many people in it that they find a use case afterwards, right?
And that can happen because what's most important in almost any commodity is do people want it?
So if you can have a desire before the want...
Um, great. The problem is, is the risk is so high. And when people buy shit coins, they have to realize they're putting all their chips on number 32 and at the roulette table and rolling, rolling the dice.
That's a, Joe, Joe, that's a shitty comparisons to M&M, which has a use case. Not an NMN has a use case.
Like, you just, again, the NM and then, man, I'm saying win up. I'm saying NNM in the beginning was seen as like a miracle cure.
BS, but now I take it every day, so I believe in it, right?
But some of these supplements wind up becoming extremely useful and then have longevity.
To the point now where Sinclair is actually trying to take it off and make it actually...
All right, let me, let me, all right, so, so Brian, can you do a better argument, Joe was a friend, by the way, but can you do a better argument against meme coins?
Danish is going to come up.
Danish runs our finance spaces.
He has all these Wall Street guys in our morning shows.
He's not a fan of crypto.
He's more critical.
I'm going to bring him up as well to see if he can make a better argument.
Because Brian, the argument's against meme coin so far and see what Bruce,
Bruce, if he lets loose, could be pretty interesting.
But I can't hear a good argument against him.
Like even Joa, who thought he's going to be critical.
He's like, meme coins could have a use case once they evolve.
I'm actually going to provide some context, which might get into a 50-50 thing here.
So if you think about meme coins, you think about the origin story, right?
It's basically these viral trends that come from Borechan, Reddit, and other places, right?
And they go so viral, so fast, like a chat GDP in a sense, something that just goes crazy viral, pep-based all over the place,
do, shib, all these meme coins are all over the place.
And what do people want to do?
They want to participate in that in some way.
So somebody gets the right idea to tokenite.
and they say, whoa, this is so popular, I can make some money off this.
Here's the problem.
It's good and bad, right?
If you're someone like me that hears about these things very early
through a networking group or you have access to on-chain data
or you're in a call group, you can make a shitload of money off of it, right?
However, not all the time, but I'm not talking about the three I just mentioned,
but smaller meme coins that are not based on as big of trends
You know, if you hear about them on social media for favor of influence or it's a much smaller one, you're probably the exit liquidity in most of the other cases.
So it really depends about where you fall on the spectrum.
You know, it's, it's, but I look at the origin story and I say, you know, is this a trend that is something people are really care about?
You know, and it's the culture, right? It's tokenized culture in a sense.
So if you think about the evolution of the internet itself, you know, we essentially got to Bitcoin and Ethereum from people evolving from centralization to decentralization.
So I think they have some use cases in the tokenized culture and tokenized community sense.
But I think there's a lot of them out there beyond the big three and maybe a few more.
that you know are going to most likely be going a lot down but the other thing in the play the
counter out of my health if you look at a lot of these trends with with meme coins they typically
precursors they're typically precursors to crypto bull runs um if you look at the data back from
windows shib and others um
We're getting popular when Elon was on SNL.
The full run came right after that.
So it's very interesting.
But there's one other thing to keep in mind.
I mean, let's be honest about it.
With Pepe, there have been many, many, many projects with the name Pepe on Ethereum on B&B that have tried to be successful.
And what the pepe team did is they noticed that there has not been a mainstream pepe coin yet, even though there's been many attempts.
And so they decided, hey, we have a lot of capital, which is clearly what happened.
And so because they had already millions of dollars to invest to get this thing a super big head start, that's why it was successful.
There's nothing that particular expression.
That's incorrect.
Jesus.
Incorrect information.
All right, so can I speak from a completely different perspective?
Let's get Wall Street to speak.
Let's get Wall Street to speak.
Go ahead, Danish.
Ah, Jesus. Well, this reminds me, someone was talking about how Bitcoin is going to save the universe and the universe of time and money and everything.
You know, what this reminds me of is tulip mania. That's the real history we should be talking about.
Meme coins are tulip mania. This is people that are buying and increasing and speculating and gambling.
If someone can explain to me,
why something like this needs to exist in the universe and what problem it's actually solving without any bullshit.
No bullshit.
No crypto solves any problems except for Bitcoin and Ethereum.
You're looking at the wrong way, Dynish.
You're looking at the wrong way.
The question is, what is something worth?
Something is only worth what somebody else will pay for it, right?
So the fact is...
That's tulip mania, bro.
But what's it?
I know.
That's like the most ridiculous comment.
But go deeper.
Why is a dollar any different than a crypto?
Literally the only difference is the government guarantee.
Because it's backed by the U.S. government.
It's actually providing utility and allows for exchange of currency.
Not a utility.
It's just insurance.
Yeah.
Exactly, but it's backed by something that's actually of worth.
My big issue here, I don't want to go to all of crypto.
I want to be very clear.
This is not about all of crypto.
There's actually true utility to things like E to even Bitcoin.
And the only reason why Bitcoin has utility is because it already has an established base
and it already has established value.
The problem with these meme coins is that people like Mario,
who I'm self-selecting him right now, will go and they'll get into it.
and they won't be the first adopters.
The problem is that many of these,
and I literally know nothing about Pepe
except for the fact that apparently a bunch of people
made a bunch of money,
and maybe it will be worth nothing in six months.
Who knows?
But, you know, the point here is
that it is the repeating of the same pattern
over and over again.
Don Asham, let me ask.
I just want to, hold on, Mario.
I just want to finish this.
For people that are listening,
don't fall for the same games over and over again.
Do your own.
Let me answer.
Let me answer.
I think this is one of the best arguments and I agree with almost everything you said.
Before our answer, Peter, who's an attorney, is going to come up and mention some legal issues.
I don't know.
Fidji's an attorney as well.
We do have whale chart.
We've got Bull B&B.
We've got Borovic.
all of them coming up, spotty's coming up,
and a whole bunch of speakers.
So the panel will get new speakers with different takes.
So I just want to give them a shout-offs
because I know they're requesting
and I want them to stay there
because I want to bring them up.
But Danish, the argument you made
I agree with it.
For the retail market that's going there and flipping, like I'll leverage just, okay, for the, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, as you know, you can always do so.
I'm never going to invest in a meme coin.
Because I don't know how the fuck.
I like, it's just flippily.
It's, it's, it's, it's gambling.
That's how I see it.
Okay.
Two points though.
Number one, what I believe is that a meme coin could evolve into a decentralized community that starts building an ecosystem.
Because you're talking about, all right, what value can they create?
We do have Dogecoin and Matt Wallace here on stage.
Dogecoin is a perfect example of this.
Dogecoin started and the founder, which I should have probably brought to the space.
Right.
the founder started it, sold all his tokens,
because he didn't like what it's become,
sold it for $10,000, and that's it.
That's all the money he's made from it,
as far as I understand.
Yet the community in a decentralized fashion,
obviously a lot of people made money,
built out what Doche coin is today,
and obviously the rest is history.
So if I get involved in this space on a personal level,
it will most likely
be either working with a project that genuinely wants to become a Dogecoin, which I think
has value, and I want someone to prove me wrong, or obviously acquiring a project and building
out Dogecoin myself.
That's how I would do it instead of flipping and doing what the retail audience would do.
For the retail audience, Daanish is right.
flipping shit coins or meme coins, whatever you want to call them, is just gambling at its worst.
And unregonated gambling.
There is utility.
I want to repeat one part of what you said.
If there is already utility to what is being provided, then...
it makes sense but do you define you define utility for me if you're taking situation define
value for some service or some that is not utility that is not utility that is you can look at the
house i think that's part of the problem guys i think i think that's part of the problem i want to jump
in here because i feel like we're getting a bit confused with terms and we're almost going to end up
being two ships passing in the night right because people over here on the bitcoin side are a
more traditional investment approaches are going to be like talking all about utility and trying
to hold meme coins to the same standard as a utility token. And so I think it's really important.
But then if it's not a utility, then what is it? What's the point? Exactly. Okay. So when you go into a
meme, oh, I'm going to love answering this. Okay, before everyone freaks out, when you go into a meme coin space, they're not
sitting there talking about price go up price go up price go up and analyzing like the
non-existent fundamentals like fundamentals are not as important i went because of what
what is it maria i went into bitch touch i went into meme coin groups with my other account
me me medics that's the silliest term i went into my with my alternative account i started going
to those message mario it was mario it was tm z on steroids he was on tm z on steroids what is the point
What is the point?
I just want to know what the point is.
Let's see, Poe, guys, guys, hold on.
Let's get Polly to jump in on this one.
Maybe you can ask Danish's question, then we'll go to Bruce.
Listen, guys, this is the thing.
Hold on, Paul, no, I mean P. P-O-E.
Sorry, P-O-E. Sorry, Pauley.
Oh, sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
Sorry, Polly.
Guys, it's sitting your sideline.
I've been listening to this conversation.
I am a meme coin.
Can I go see.
He's speaking.
Yeah, he's talking about you can't hear him, Polly.
I'll bring you down and back up.
It's the glitch on spaces.
Go ahead, Polly.
P-O-E, go ahead, man.
Can you hear me now?
Yeah, bro, we can all hear you.
Just Pauli's having a glitch.
I'll fix it.
Go ahead, bro.
Oh, beautiful.
Okay, yeah.
So I just wanted to say one thing.
A couple things I want to touch up on.
Shit coins at the end of the day, yes, it's all speculation.
Yes, it's all gambling.
The whole thing about meme coins is it allows people to place bets on culture.
That's literally all it is.
We are placing bets on the bullishness.
We're placing bets on the bullishness of memes.
We're placing bets on the bullishness of community.
How far is the price going to go up?
Things of that nature.
Yeah.
But isn't that just literally, that's tulip mania, right?
Can we at least admit that it's too, do you guys know what tulip mania is?
Just want to confirm.
Speculating on the value of your own culture.
I'd love to get Bruce Fentis in point here since he's the only other like Bitcoiner.
What are we speculating on the price of Apple?
What are we speculating on the price of?
I would really love these other.
Can Pote is.
Yeah, yeah, Dennis, I can eat.
Yeah, we're owning a piece of company.
Are we literally?
Let me get, let me get Bruce in here.
Sorry, Don't, I'm muting you, bro.
Don't be pissed at me.
I know you're on my finance show.
Don't shit talk me there.
Bruce, you've heard the debate between Darnish and the, the meme coin community.
What's your stance on this?
You might surprise me.
I don't know, man, because you, I don't know how, how aggressive you are towards meme coins.
Yeah, I'm a little more mild than a lot of Bitcoiners.
You know, I'm known as being kind of a Bitcoiner just because I was early in Bitcoin,
but I have a more moderate view, I think, than a lot of my good Bitcoin friends.
You know, I like the term monetary maximalist.
You know, I like the idea that Bitcoin is the best money and could be the best money.
But I'm more forgiving, I think, of...
other projects and meme coins or any other digital asset.
I think because my history is in markets,
you know, I started my career as a stockbroker like 30 years ago.
So I, you know, people in stocks don't sit around like hating on one company all the time.
that's like loser behavior.
It's like, you know,
no successful stockbroker or investor or VC sits around like spending 80% of their energy saying like,
these five companies really suck, you know,
and that's what a lot of people with tribalism in coins do,
you know, some bitcoinsers,
you know,
I think it can be,
I think it's a bad take to say, you know, only Bitcoin is the only asset that will have any value.
Every single thing else is a scam, you know, for example.
Because for one thing, a lot of things aren't scams.
A lot of them are bad ideas.
There's a big difference.
You know, some of them are just bad ideas, bad economics, probably most of them.
but scam is another thing.
And then there's some things that have like undoubtable value.
You know, I think Ethereum has proven itself to a certain degree, even by the biggest
hater standards.
I think if you say that Bitcoin has value, you kind of have to say that like coin, which
is a very, very similar code base on a long chain that's been around a lot.
It has a non-zero value.
I mean, nobody would say
light coin is, I mean, isn't light coin worth a million dollars?
I mean, $10 million?
It's got to be worth something, even if you're the biggest hater.
So I'm more open-minded than just this kind of black and white idea that, you know,
everything other than Bitcoin sucks.
But having said that, you know, one final point I'll make,
you do got to be careful with what you buy and you've got to ask like,
what am I getting?
Am I getting something that has any utility or real value?
Or am I getting a gift certificate to a store nobody wants?
I expected, you know what I expected from you, Dennis and Brian.
I think Brian dropped out.
I expected you guys to grill me and destroy me for even discussing the topic.
So I'm glad to see the Bitcoin community, at least including you Dennis,
like for you to discuss it in such an open mind and saying, look, there's pump and dumps,
there's scams, needs to be regulated.
Right.
But maybe there is value.
And maybe I'll move to Dogecoin now and get Matt Wallace to give it.
Let's Marr, just real quick.
There's two, just guys, go in second.
Yeah, and I'll go back to right afterwards.
I think there's an important, like, question that we're not asking or answering, right?
So we could all agree that Ethereum has utility because of the D-App infrastructure
and the ability to create smart contract networks and...
revolutionized the way that data is organized, distributed, and weaponized to a degree.
We can all agree that Bitcoin is the most resilient form of money, decentralized money.
The question becomes, obviously, Bitcoin's extremely expensive to transact on currently,
and Satoshi's ordinals aren't helping.
Do we need more than one other meme coin?
Do we need more than one other transactional token?
Right.
I want to kind of...
I want to go...
I didn't really get a chance to respond to this, you know,
kind of conversation around, like, you know,
what my actual opinions are on meme coins.
Like, you know, you said I comment in softly on them.
And I just said, I don't care if other people want to use them.
But to me, any sort of like...
pepe coin any sort of doge coin in theory really has no value or no purpose other than just for a
community to come around and as they as uh poe said you know try to see how much they can pump up
the value of that token um it just would like wonder though if like if that value of that token went to
zero like how many people would
would still be sticking around trying to make sure that you took what I said out of context.
What is the actual value of the coin other than that?
I mean, if you guys are saying that it's purpose is to monetize culture, then sure, go ahead.
But culture moves rapidly and doesn't stay in the same place for very long.
So you're essentially admitting that.
your coin will hold value for a certain amount of time.
And then as culture shifts, it will lose value completely.
So it's not a very good argument that you're trying to make in the first place for the value of your coin.
Obviously, I myself, I've been in the space six years.
Bruce has been in much longer.
I've seen these coins come and go many times.
Sometimes they resurge, like how Doge coin did.
But ultimately, they're just like a tool for speculation.
Have you ever seen these numbers before, Dennis?
I've seen absolutely insane numbers so many times.
It doesn't matter.
Who cares about the numbers?
The numbers reflect something.
Did you see how fast?
I actually,
they reflect really, really, really, really good pumping and dump.
I mean, you have nothing to.
No, they reflect the man.
The numbers reflect the man.
I want to add,
sorry, Dennis, I'll let you finish off.
I do want to get, I want to ask right after Dennis finishes,
I want to go to Matt just and Dogecoin official to our Dogecoin rights,
sorry, to ask them about, you know, comparing those coins,
because I've been there since the early days,
to the meme coin hype we're seeing now.
And could we see another Dogecoin where a meme coin, a shit coin,
a pump and dump could actually evolve into something much bigger
in a community building an ecosystem with utility.
But Dennis, I let you finish off.
Sorry, I interrupted you.
It just, I do agree, you know, I'm not sure where Dr. Dinesh stands on the space broadly,
but it's just, to me, it's very tulip mania amid very much reeks of pump and eventually dump.
And maybe the people that are in right now don't have that mindset.
They're not here for the pump and the dump.
But that if you are not considering yourself to be like part of the equation of how somebody is,
for using you as exit liquidity on these projects.
I don't think you've done a full estimation on,
on like the way that you're being used for the project.
So whereas like with Bitcoin,
you're like no one is,
Everyone understands that when you're in Bitcoin, you're staying in Bitcoin.
Like you're not leaving Bitcoin.
You're not going elsewhere.
And Bitcoin actually solves actual fundamental problems that we've had in society for a very long time.
So it's a combination of what you're talking about, which is community.
But it also has a community of people that will stay around because of the fact that it seriously solves major monetary issues for hundreds of thousands of years.
Let me,
I can give you a good example.
So Dogecoin, I'm going to give you the mic next.
I just want to tell two things to the audience.
Number one, Darnish, again, he represents Wall Street.
The reason I said this, he hosts our morning show sometimes with me, sometimes alone that we do every morning with, you know, fucking Bill Ackman, Mark Cuban, Robert Wolf, all these Wall Street guys that already criticize me for even having a crypto punk as a hosty spaces and convincing me to remove our cryptocurrency.
So just to give an idea of his position and how important that position is, this is the big money that they're even critical of Bitcoin.
Like for me, I'm careful how to talk about Bitcoin when Silicon Valley Bank was collapsing and I saw Bitcoin as a potential good store of value and as a solution.
I would be careful with my words there.
So for them to get Danish's thoughts on meme coins, don't expect it to be positive and rightly so.
So that's number one.
And number two.
The audience and Dogecoin official that kind of links to Dogecoin, sorry, that links to your question to what you want to, I want you to say, hold on, someone's got a hot mic.
Oh, just muted everyone.
Dogecoin, right, the comments are flooded with Pepe.
Okay, the team is just telling me, Mario, Pepi is flooding the fucking comments.
So then my question two is, how does that compare to Dogecoin?
Doge community was active as fuck.
But like when does it cross?
Here's what happened, Mario.
So in my opinion, the reason Pepe's doing good is because back when Doge hit, there wasn't Twitter spaces.
And Doge kind of went up on the hype and Twitter, but kind of what Pepe's done, it's been impressive, how they organized.
And obviously, you're talking to people in spaces, but there's a gambling aspect.
It's not like rolling the dice.
If you do research, I remember Matt here, you know, I used to be up late at night watching for Elon tweets and Matt videos and watch Doge go from a cent to eight cents.
You know, you can make a lot of money that way.
But my example would be yesterday.
I literally about five days ago got contacted by a project called Grumpy Cat Token.
And I didn't really know too much about it, but they said it's a competition.
It's going to be a meme war with Pepe.
And I said, I'm in.
Um, they basically yesterday we were on with slumdoge millionaire. It pumped, uh, up to about 28 million. It went back down to about three. I think it's sitting at nine now. But the point is, people want to be entertained. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Why? But you can make a lot of money if you play it right. If you, if you're in these alpha groups and you get in and you get out at the right time.
So, you know, that's the reason
I believe people love this.
I love Doge Korn Right.
I love you, you're honest,
but that doesn't help my case with Darnish, bro.
Like, that's going to make it.
Like, Danish, I'm sorry, man.
Poe, is it Pah?
Yeah, I know, bro.
Look, we'll get there.
We'll get, Matt, before going to POE and other speakers,
Matt, can you give me, and Lala,
let's see Lala, what she could do as well,
can you give me a better argument on,
and by the way, and by the way,
I agree with it, but is there more value
that can be added to DogeCon?
Like, again, I'll add you.
And Elon put his, the first thing when Elon came in our space,
the first, first time he came on our space during FTX's collapse,
the first thing he said was Doge to the Moon.
That was the first thing he said.
We're talking about the richest man on the planet.
And obviously, one of the biggest social media platforms
put Doge as their icon.
There's been rumors about Doge, which I don't think will happen.
Doge becoming a transfer of value within Twitter.
which again, I don't think will happen and there's many reasons for that.
Matt, maybe you could back about our argument.
You stood your ground against a lot of Bitcoin OGs about half a year ago on this space
debating the value of Doge.
Maybe you could give us an idea of how the value of Doge,
but more importantly, how it relates to Pepe and other of these meme-cons.
Yeah.
I absolutely can. The first thing to keep in mind with meme coins is that because a lot of people don't take them seriously, they're going to get less scrutiny oftentimes from government bodies around the world. And that comes not only in the form of a lot of people will look at Bitcoin bans, but not look at dogecoin bans.
People not taking Dogecoin seriously is a utility in and of itself that's well beyond just making money from it.
So that's the first thing that I think people need to keep in mind.
As far as Pepe itself...
I think Pepe really does fall more in the category of just fun.
Anyone who's hyping up and talking about it likely just owns a lot of Pepe coin.
And I heard Fizzy say that I was incorrect with my statement.
I don't believe I am.
If he wants to refute me after my current statement,
I would like to hear his opinions on it or what he knows that would refute what I had to say,
because I don't think it's wrong.
But...
Pepe coin went up to a one billion dollar market cap above that and then fell back down.
It's now been trading sideways for a little bit and spurred a bunch of other meme coins.
Is it possible...
for another meme coin to be the next dogecoin and the answer is not really because
dogecoin has the same thing bitcoin has when it comes to being the first to do something now
bitcoin is even more ogy than dogecoin but that's really its only major advantage over dogecoin
is that it was first it did create it besides that you can't really make much of a difference
when in the argument between bitcoin and dogecoin besides just the fact that the
that doge coins lower fees
you're gonna get me
I don't know about that
Jesus for you yeah
Gogecoin has a hard supply cap
there's no hard supply cap on dogecoin so
it has in theory an unlimited supply
whereas bitcoin is 21 million and that's just one
example that's very simple to understand
yeah that's a big one I think I
can I just I just want to because everyone has this
argument and everyone's just talking about like
oh what is the utility what are the fundamentals
how old is this thing things like that
when you know
you know everyone talked to his name has been mentioned a lot this guy
Elon Musk okay Elon Musk is very rich right so is Jeff Bezos so is Carlos
slam there's a lot of rich people on earth why Elon Musk is different or why
Donald Trump is different or why Kanye West is different
is their ability to communicate something, okay?
So your ability on Earth, because we're human beings,
and we use language to decide things
and to explain things to people.
And so anything's value is only as good
as its ability to communicate
a thing. That is why one brand of shoes, a Nike shoe, might be worth more than a feel-a-shoe,
because for some reason, it has communicated the idea of shoes or sports or being an excellent
athlete in a better way. It has communicated that differently. There are things that have utility,
like a car has utility, right? But Studebaker, which is a very useful car,
did very well at one point doesn't exist anymore.
It still has utility.
It is still a car.
So debating whether something has utility or whether it doesn't have utility or how old something is,
none of that matters.
What matters is the ability something has to communicate.
And at one time, you know, people communicate in a completely different way.
Okay, but...
I'd link that to, you're kind of making the argument of community, community standing up for a vision, communicating a certain message, but why does it have to be linked to a token that goes up and down in price?
Well, I mean, that's just why, what is the point of a token?
I mean, I think that then, you know, the arguments is what is the point of,
you're just basically saying what is the point of cryptocurrency at that point?
Look, man, I wouldn't, I wouldn't compare.
So, for example, if you have a project that has a token that gives you access to,
I'll give you the most basic utility, a token that gives you access to an ecosystem in which you can,
you know, one of, I think one of the sponsors like rent cars or access hotels,
this is like a very boring use case.
At least it's a use case.
I'm giving you the most boring, the most obvious use case.
If you get access to a token that gives you utility in games,
I'm a big fan of decentralized games,
that's an actual utility.
What can I do today with Pepe?
And I'm using Pepe because it's the biggest one right now
that kicked off this hype.
What can I do with Pepe?
Mario, can I add something real quick?
Do you mind?
Yeah, bro.
So I think this is a really interesting thing to look at and I think it will give us some commonalities.
Like if you want to if you want to try to make some comparison here, I think that it's very fair to say that based on data, Bitcoin is the number one use case of cryptocurrency, right?
Because it's the number one crypto in the world. It's the strongest and it's like the most reasonable store of value that we've seen so far.
It's the most resilient and the longest lasting and it's the original, right? The one that made it.
I think in the same context, Pepe is undeniably the most, it's the strongest use case of a meme.
Like we've seen that Pepe literally altered the course of United States political history.
It changed the outcome of a U.S. election.
So what I look at when I look at Pepe is I look at it.
The meme though, not the coin.
Correct.
100% correct.
Now, bear with me, Matt, because I'm going.
You took the words out of my mouth.
I'm going there.
It's the meme, not the coin.
So what the coin is, is the coin is an experiment in deploying the most powerful meme,
the most dank, if you will, use case of a meme in the world, in the history of internet culture, undeniably so.
What happens if you deploy that and tokenize it onto the rails of decentralization?
So that's one thing, and also last thing that I'll add is,
When you consider adoption, right?
You have to consider adoption.
The traditional use case discovery in crypto is very slow.
But when you have something with Pepe, like with Pepe,
where you have a critical mass of people that want to be involved,
not because of the crypto aspect of it,
but because of the meme aspect of it as well.
You are able to bring in more users more seamlessly
without having to explain to them anything.
Because when they know they're not, they're not using new users.
They're not new users.
They're people that are in-quip.
Bitcoin is a meme.
You guys are all missing one of the biggest points of all of this is community.
And what I think is...
inherently human beings, we're all seeking connections.
And one thing that meme coins do and that anyone cannot deny
is it brings people together.
And that's the most...
And I have a minute.
That's the biggest part about it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was going to go to...
Yeah, hold on Joe.
I'll give you the mic.
I'll give you the mic.
And I do want Whalechart to give us his thoughts as well on this.
Well, chat, before going to you, I want to say two things.
I'm pushing back on meme coins, yet here I am talking about it on a big platform
with a mainstream audience.
So obviously, I'm comfortable enough to at least talk about it.
And I have two meme coins and I announce them,
whatever, in like 20 minutes or so,
who these two projects are.
That will be pitching later.
I'm not invested, I'm not working with them,
I'm not endorsing them, but for the first time
we are having meme coins pitch.
So having said that,
gonna point out that I'm coming with an open mind.
Yeah, look, obviously, I'm a,
Bitcoin's on top of my list.
I'm a fan of Solana, Ethereum, et cetera.
I'm a fan of decentralized coins
in decentralized game coins.
Meme coins, not yet.
Joa, before going to you,
and now that I've got this disclaimer there,
I do want to say one thing to Poe
before going to Whale Chart.
And Poe, every time there's a project
that cannot explain utility,
they always go back to community
before going to zero.
That's an argument that I hear all the time.
I have to run a little bit.
I just want to say goodbye before you get into the pitching
because I don't really want to be here.
You're going to be like pitching meme coins to folks, unfortunately.
That's not just not a part of sports.
So it's not a pitch.
It's not a bit.
Just to clarify the pitch, I'll let you.
Yeah, but Jen, just let me to let you know.
So the way we do pitches here is that we could criticize the fuck out of them.
We've had projects come on and say, guys, we hate you.
All, go ahead.
That's good to know.
I just would love for people to, you know, to guide the conversation back towards Bitcoin versus meme coins.
If you want to continue that conversation, happy to participate in it.
But I think we've really gotten off the rails into this whole community aspect and how there's like this community versus that community.
I think you really just need to remember that communities come and they go.
and culture moves and shifts and meme coins are here and then they're gone.
So if you want something that's going to be around for a long time,
something that you can save your money in, choose Bitcoin.
If you want to gamble, if you want to worry about speculation,
meme coins are a great way to do that.
And to add to it, Dennis, I'm going to add something to it as well.
When the market collapsed,
Wealth moved to Bitcoin when NFTs collapsed everyone's talking about NFT utility
But I'm a fan of NFTs I got a crypto punk and Ft utility community community what happened to the NFT community all of them are talking about shit coins
in the last few weeks.
Is that a community?
Is that people that care about making money?
So an argument there, and one thing that happened,
I've had a lot of Bitcoin Maxes on the show,
one thing that happened when the market collapsed,
when FTX collapsed, everyone moved their money out of exchanges.
Everyone moved money out of stable coins.
People wouldn't trust Tether.
People wouldn't trust USTC.
And I'm sure they'll forget this again in the next bull market.
People moved their money to Bitcoin or completely out of the crypto market.
So one thing we did say on this show, but...
about six months ago is that this was an ode to Bitcoin.
I think proved Bitcoin's use case.
And I think comparing and nobody's going to compare Bitcoin to meme coins,
actually someone did earlier, but I don't think we should.
Right.
while still debating whether meme coins could end up having value
and whether Doge does have value,
whether Pepe can become a doge,
that's a different discussion.
So I wanna add to Dennis's points
because it is very important.
And for the audience that is not in the crypto market,
don't fuck, if you wanna play with meme coins,
which I never did and I never recommend it.
If you wanna do that, just make sure you do it with money.
If it goes to zero, you're comfortable with it
because you're gambling.
And I think everyone would agree with this
and no one would say otherwise.
Lala, I'll let you go to jump in before going to whale chat.
Yeah.
Thanks, Mario.
Yeah, I just wanted to kind of push back a little bit.
Dennis, when.
Go ahead, Lala.
Yeah, when Dennis was talking about like how maybe the community conversation isn't relevant here,
I think it's incredibly relevant.
Like when I was in meme coin spaces all throughout the week,
I was hearing story after story of people who had completely given up on the crypto market as a whole.
Why?
Why?
Because they're not making money?
Because they're not making money?
Because it's a bear market, right?
And everybody was just kind of depressed.
Exactly.
But not because of, but Mario, not because of the fact that people weren't making money, more so because this space wasn't fun.
I mean, look at the Pepe charts.
We're down like 78% or something like that, right?
Like people aren't necessarily making money in Pepe right now, but people are having...
So why is no one, why are you guys doing spaces on NFTs?
I want Po, I want Wailchard to go next if you don't mind, bro.
But what Lala, my question is, why are you doing space about NFTs?
It wasn't it all about use case of NFTs, the PFPs?
They went down in value.
No one's talking about them anymore.
Now everyone's talking, suddenly everyone's a meme coin expert.
Why is that?
It's because suddenly meme coins are a better community building.
Or is it because meme coins are making them money?
I think so.
No, I think because of the deeper message. And that's the whole point that we've kind of like kind of just brushed past this whole time is the memetics of it is the point that when you go into a pepe space or you go into these meme coin coin spaces. People are talking about freedom. They're talking about decentralization. They're like wallowing in this happy fact of like, wow, we held coin base to account in 24 hours. Like look at the.
power of people when they
actually organize. And I think that that's
what's getting people really excited
even if they're losing money. And I mean, I can
speak for myself, right? I was on boarded
with Doge. Like, I was all
in the subreddits, man. I was all
into that. Why? Because it had this deeper
message of freedom. And I mean, that's
why I'm here today. So I think
that that's what we're brushing over. But
I'll tell you what I heard.
I'll tell you what I just heard you say before going to Welch.
I just heard you say money, money, money, money, money, freedom, money, money, money.
I was about, no shit corners give a fuck about community.
Freedom, freedom, freedom, sovereignty.
They might long term, but in the short term.
Let's get it.
Well, guys, guys, go ahead.
I separated short, medium and long.
I can't be co-hosts.
All right, go ahead, Welchow.
Okay, so...
I mean, there's so much negativity here.
I mean, if you don't like meme coin, fine.
Move to Bitcoin, right?
Somebody calls that a meme.
But anyway, the desire to belong is a fundamental part of human nature.
So when I look at joining a meme community,
it's somewhat similar to choosing what side of politics to support,
what football team you're chairing for.
And I can tell you one thing.
If let's say the United Kingdom or the band football,
or some of you call it soccer,
it will become a total energy in that country because it's like opium for the people.
So strong communities where people feel belonged and a place to go and meet new friends from this community is strong and important.
And I've been into meme coins ever since I tweeted about shit, but like a million market cap.
And I had Doge prior to that, but it wasn't the same prior to like full scale DeFi on Ethereum.
And there are a lot of people I met that say it has changed their lives for the better.
And I'm not talking about financially.
I'm talking about people who had depression, no friends, and the list goes on.
And it's kind of similar to, for example, being social, logging into World of Warcraft.
Some of you who maybe play these games, right?
And in memes, they entered this telegram channel on Twitter and just wipe along with the community.
And obviously, they're like 99% scams, right?
Right.
But if you get into communities such as Shiba, Dogecoin, or new ones such as Pepe or Dino, I own all of them, just full disclosure, where if you check their telegrams, a lot of them focus more on having fun than talking about price.
But if you join these new ones that it's just like obviously pumping dumps, they're all just spamming price up, right?
You had this Ben dude just tweeting like up, up, up all the time, he's a dev of this coin.
And someone asked a question about why is there a need of a token?
you don't have to buy the token to join the community.
I mean, you could buy like $10 of it,
but you don't have to buy anything.
But sometimes or often the token keeps you bonded
and sometimes have a game theory behind it.
And people want to be a part of that.
So what I would suggest, I'm soon done,
prior to joining or buying any token at all,
join the community,
and if it's a fresh new meme token launch,
it is most likely a scam.
Let's just be honest.
So do proper research and find a community you like to be in prior to buying any token.
Right. So do that first. All right. Thanks.
Slaman.
Yeah, I mean, I've been listening intentively to try and understand what...
And just to set out the context, just to slam and co-host the shows with me with the big guys, mainly political guys.
So he understands shit all about crypto and I'm trying to see what his thoughts are after listening to this space.
Well, it sounds like nobody else understands much about crypto and I'll explain why because essentially what I'm hearing from all of this is,
And when it comes to a meme coin, it's basically in total, a complete scam.
Like, in reality, what's the basis for it?
I've heard arguments that, guess what, yeah, it doesn't have any utility.
It doesn't have any strong basis.
Guess what?
It's all about being part of a community.
But guess what happens in that community?
Does everybody win?
No, there's losers.
There's a pump.
okay, the bees winners, then the bees are dump and the bees losers.
How is that being part of any community?
And then the argument against that is, yeah, we don't mind losing some money.
It was just the fun of being there.
It's just, so what it is essentially is at best, one of them PlayStation games without,
and you know, when you basically buy coins in a PlayStation game,
you know you're not going to get any benefit.
All of this applies to Bitcoin.
Everything you just said also applies to Bitcoin.
But Paul, you're not able to explain the difference between Bitcoin and meme coins.
And the price fluctuation of Bitcoin is not anything to fucking, to take lightly either.
You're telling people to invest in Bitcoin.
Bitcoin was $70,000 a coin not long ago.
Now it's $25,000.
I mean, that's a big price fluctuation.
Bitcoin is a meme also.
It's just a really good meme.
And Pepe's the best meme.
Yeah, exactly.
But, Polly, let me ask, let me ask you, taking Pepe aside, because I do believe when you get to a certain level of people, it becomes something else, like Bitcoin, okay?
Um, is the meme coin as a whole market good or bad for the crypto industry?
Bad, bad, bad.
Like, guys, that's one thing that I think people, I didn't make clear.
I am extremely bearish on meme coins.
Like, I literally tell people in my community, we have thousands of people coming to the space every day.
I'm like, if you guys buy these meme coins, you're fucking crazy because like what whale chart said was so true.
And that was no different with Pepe.
When I first looked at it, of course,
the only thing that I'm concerned about is
how soon is this thing gonna rug?
Like it has to be a rug, that's the most likely thing, right?
And that hasn't changed, but what has happened with Pepe
is that Pepe has, it's already proven itself
many, many degrees past the point of, like,
it's way past the point of,
is this a rug or not?
It got listed on over a dozen centralized exchanges
in the first week.
It's on Binance.
It's on Gemini.
It's on OKX.
Yeah, but let's get off Pepe, though,
because me, I...
But, dude, we're a little bit on opposite sides.
And I said...
Paulie, Paulie, can I just jump in here,
one second.
One second, one second.
Just based on what you said,
look, I made the argument
why what you guys were saying
is essentially a scam.
It's basically a glorified video.
And you...
And your only argument is, guess what, Bitcoin is worse.
Like, that's not a reach-out.
I never said that.
I never said.
I'm not going to disagree with you.
You need to explain to me why you basically why this thing has value and it has substantial value that someone can actually invest.
The reason.
Yes.
Listen, listen.
Suleiman, I'm not here, please don't put words on my mouth.
I'm not here telling you guys that Pepe has value,
but I am telling you that I speculate that the value of it,
which it currently has, will go up.
I'm not saying it inherently has value,
but what I am saying is that I respect Bitcoin,
and I respect Dogecoin,
and I respect Shiba Inu,
because regardless of what I have as opinions,
these things have done...
serious numbers and they have moved markets and they've changed society in some fundamental ways.
Like the richest person in the world, like Mario.
How was it changed society?
Let me finish.
Let me finish.
Like Mario said, no, no, I just, I just let me finish.
Can I please finish my sentence?
Can I finish my sentence, sir?
No, no, I'm telling you finish your sentence and then absolutely.
Okay, I appreciate that.
I was just saying, like Mario said, the richest person in the world comes into his space and the first thing he says is a comment about Dogecoin.
And so you can't just discard the relevance and impact of these things because even the most poor people in the world and the richest people in the world all.
you like reference these things as talking points and as cultural entities. That's very real.
And Suleiman, I'm not saying that Bitcoin is better or worse than Pepe. I'm just saying that
fundamentally they fall under all the same rules of markets and communities and price action
and trading. Like they're in the same category in that way. That's all I'm saying. And Bitcoin
is the blueprint for this in many ways. And so is Dogecoin. And so is Shib. But I believe that
those things can be approved upon.
Just like when Michael Jordan came into the NBA, he changed the league.
This is the Michael Jordan of memes.
All right.
So, Paulie, I think the, hold on, guys, guys, guys, two sex, two sex, seven, seven.
I want to go back to you, Slime, man, because you're criticizing Bitcoin and Pepe in the same centers,
which I think is a very dangerous thing to do.
Peter, I need you to come in and push back because I'm happy to discuss the value of, of meme coins.
But as soon as Paulie's fucking smart in how he articulated, like how he played this, he shits on meme coins.
He shits on meme coins.
says Pepe is no longer a meme coin
and then starts comparing to Bitcoin.
It's like moving it up the stage,
which I think is a very dangerous narrative.
Comparing anything to Bitcoin is very smart narrative,
but also very dangerous.
Peter, I'm giving the mic to Peter
to kind of push back on this because I think it's important.
Well, say why it's dangerous first.
Say why it's dangerous first.
Well,
Well, maybe I can help.
You know, first of all, everyone is using this word utility or how things get used, and it's the stupidest word in all of crypto, because there is no utility to any coin.
A hammer has utility, because everybody across the world can use it for the same exact shit.
But when it comes to any...
fungible digital asset, it's all about faith and credit and what people are willing to put into it.
So whether people choose to use Pepe or you choose to use Bitcoin is the same exact thing.
Now of course Bitcoin came first to the white paper, so it's not foolish to say that it has the institutional capacity to move markets
and to achieve the visions in the white paper.
It might be a little more foolish to ascribe the same properties to Pepe, which has been around for two weeks.
Pepe can move meme markets, and it's an opportunity to gamble on the culture, and that's fine.
We should also look at what it came out of.
It came out of a space where there were meme tokens a galore two years ago with various communities that have zombie liquidity pools, and people got sick of it.
Pepe came along and said no VCs, no centralized authority to do anything meaningful.
Let's just have a good time.
That's great.
I got nothing against gambling on the culture.
The only problem I have with Pepe and that kind of thing is the significant negative externalities that people are celebrating.
You know, all this volume, the pride and the numbers, bear in mind, you know, Huobie makes about $50,000 a day in trading fees.
So when we celebrate the centralized exchange adoption, remember that the negative externalities are about $18, $20 million per exchange.
That's money off the table and out of the Pepe ecosystem.
So one of the frustrating things about people who are gambling on culture is that they then seek the influencers, they seek the imprimatur of other institutions that are here strictly to get rich for their own bag.
And then when you do that, it's no longer a fun gamble.
Then you get, oh, it's going to zero because it is, because the net drag is going to be downwards because of all those negative centralized externalities that Pete the coin initially rejected.
So, you know, comparing it to Bitcoin is lazy.
Can I add one thing?
I just want to say that what's going to happen with PEP?
specifically is that because it's capturing the attention in an attention
economy which is a short attention span attention economy it's captivating the
entire crypto space and it's taking up everyone's attention so everyone who
builds decentralized
anything is going to be building and experimenting using Pepe as a core layer because they want people to use their shit.
No one is going to fucking use someone's defy protocol unless it's getting volume and getting attention.
So this is a net positive for all of crypto because we are captivating an attention economy.
And if we don't do that, we're not going to get adoption.
We're not going to have new people come in.
We're not going to have people learn how to do new things in the space.
The price is a driving.
Probably, I don't know.
push back on you that essentially look your argument before my question to you was a very simple
question what and that's why i said to you like add it onto your answer but you didn't sorry
my question was this how you your are let me finish probably now so my question to you was how
does it you you made the argument it changes society my question to you was how does it change
society your only argument i'll give you a perfect answer i'll give you a perfect answer so
No, I'm waiting for your perfect answer.
Let me finish my time.
Oh, yeah.
Let me just get to be 10 seconds.
I'm literally going to be 10 seconds.
second and your argument was Elon Musk came in this space and said, doge the moon.
And because of that, that appeal to authority for you means that it's changing society.
That's not good enough.
Okay.
Do you know who Donald Trump is?
Do you know who Donald Trump is?
Do you know who the president of the United States was, Donald Trump?
Yeah, man.
I think I know who it is.
But yeah, you do understand that the reason that he was elected was because of a frog cartoon, right?
Yeah.
He wasn't elected because of a fraud car.
That's basically minimizing the reality of what happened.
Okay.
Well, I'll give you another example then since you don't like that one.
Have you heard of a company called Coinbase?
Yes, I have.
Okay.
But anyway, explain.
I have heard of it, but please explain your point.
Well, I just want to make sure you know what I'm talking about because I have no idea who you are.
And that's, I mean, that all respect.
Here's the thing.
No problem.
Coinbase is a big, assume I'm an average listener.
Yes.
We want to make sure everyone understands us.
Coinbase is one of the biggest centralized exchanges, probably the biggest in the United States.
I'm quite certain it is, but don't quote me on that.
Point is, they're a huge exchange.
Right.
The other day, they had not listed Coinbase and one of their competitors, Gem and I had.
So what they did was they sent out a newsletter to everyone who uses their platform to millions
of people and that newsletter said Pepe the Frog is a hate symbol.
And our community immediately said, this is unacceptable, this is disgusting, this is not
a hate symbol.
Matt Fury, who I'm friends with and who writer Rips is friends with, and we have the same
lawyer as this guy, Louis Tomprose, were directly in touch with him.
He made it as a symbol of love.
And it was co-opted by communities online.
But basically the community just said, Coinbase, this is unacceptable.
And literally hundreds of thousands of people rallied together on the internet.
And immediately the next two days, Coinbase's stock went down over $400 million.
And they literally issued a public apology through their chief legal officer, Paul Grenwall.
So if you're telling me that this stuff doesn't matter and this doesn't have a real immediate impact, you are delusional.
So what you've shown me is that basically a community can work together to make a difference.
No one denies that.
That is brilliant.
Any kind of community can work together to make a difference.
What you have not shown me is how that makes a specific coin that increases and decreases in value pumps and dumps.
How that is imperative to do that.
So you can build your community without your community having to risk their money.
and lose their money.
My friend, it's very simple.
You have to have consensus.
And Pepe is not something that came and went.
Pepe is a permanent fixture of internet culture.
And if you don't, if you're not deep in the internet,
then you might not understand that.
But everyone who is a digital native uses Pepe in their daily life as a tool of communication.
And it also, the frog symbol also represents how, please expand on that.
How do people, please, I'm interested.
So, do you know what a meme is?
Do you know what a meme is, sir?
Okay, so a meme is a tool of communication.
A picture says a thousand words.
A meme says 10,000.
That's what I like to say.
And I'm a professional meamer.
I'm an expert on memes.
You probably are an expert on something that I don't know anything about.
But the point is that Pepe is the most prevalent meme used in the entirety of internet culture.
And if you're discussing what has the potential to be...
a real established, agreed upon store value and a tool of communication, like Rider
Rips said, something that not only is a tool of communication, but gives you a feeling.
You could have a pair of shoes or you could have a pair of Nikes, and there is some abstract
value in having something which has a symbol that makes you feel a certain way.
And Pepe is a permanently established figure.
fixture within our internet culture.
That's why it is in a category of its own.
Because I think it's taking things like Bitcoin and Ethereum.
So just before Joe and Peter jump in, Slaman, I want you to stay because I'll actually
mention who the two projects are that are pitching later.
So they're two meme coins.
They're sponsored the show.
So it's a paid pitch.
But for the first time, it's two meme coins that will be pitching.
I'll mention their names in a couple of minutes.
I have to go back to my list.
But Slaman, I want you to stay there.
I want you.
I want you to stay there, Slaman, I want you to stay there because I want you to listen to those pitches and criticize as much as you like.
Because you're making really good points as the average Joe.
For the-Pol-Pi, but then you're making the argument.
By the way, for the record, you hold a shit.
For anyone that doesn't know Paulie, who's making a great argument, Paul, it's a pleasure to have you on the stage.
You do own a shit ton of Pepe.
And you're one of the OG.
How do you know that?
Oh, I thought of public knowledge.
How do you know how much I own?
Didn't you make tweets?
Well, it's obvious from the way you're basically publicizing it, bro.
Listen, Suleiman.
The first thing that I said...
Polly, Polly, didn't you make it...
Didn't you make it tweets?
But Mario, just give me some credit because the first thing that I said was that I own a bunch of Pepe.
I disclosed that myself.
So don't make it look like I'm...
Like you guys are just going to tell me.
That was the first thing I said.
No, no, I respect it.
I'm not criticizing you for it.
I'm just reminding the audience for anyone that joined as well.
It's just an important disclaimer to make,
and I'm sure you respect that poorly.
And for the record, Slaman is a Trump fan.
I think he helped me call shows with Rudy Giuliani.
We have someone from the Trump family coming in later.
So for disclosure, Slaman holds a lot of Trump's.
I'm not going to say
Trump coin
because someone
will create one
and pump it
so as Trump
shares
I do not own
coin that has no
value that is
basically a place
to a man
No one
and yo
no one
create
Paulie
Paulie
Paulie
sorry
I did have a retop
but I'll give it back
to Mario
I'm sorry
I was going to go to Joe and Peter Slam, but you want to make your,
you do your retort later.
Let me just quickly check the two coins that will be pitching later, the two meme coins.
One of them is called, where are they?
Okay, one of them is called...
W-S-B Wall Street Betts.
So that's a coin.
I think it was launched a while ago.
They'll be pitching later on.
The founder, his account is W-S-B-D-D-S-B-B-B-S-B-B-S-B-A-B-B-A-B-R-B-A-R-C.
So Wall Street Betts is the first coin that will be pitching later.
We'll see how that pitch goes.
You could listen to it in a bit later on in the show.
And the other one is K-P-Bara coin, C-A-R-C.
So they call themselves a self-away meme-oin-project project that values cultural significance over just utility.
Okay, it's the same argument that Paul is making, culture, culture, culture.
Join their organic community embracing the absurdity of the meme coin rally in nonstop Twitter spaces.
Yeah, but this is it.
Cappy, just so you know, and Wall Street bests as well, when people pitch on our show, we will be very honest and open.
Yeah?
So expect criticism.
How much to show Pepe on here?
How much to show Pepe on here?
I want to show Pepe on this space.
I'll put it.
pay you
uh bro you've just done nothing you don't need to yeah yeah you're doing
nothing so you can't you can't you can't yeah he didn't pay but you can't shill
you because Pepe's fucking Pepe they led the whole motherfucker like they're sitting at a billion
dollar valuation but you can't show Pepe projects will pitch and we just destroy that
the same way we're doing with you right now and but you've done bro you've done I'll give
you credit I expected this to go a lot worse for you poorly but you stood your ground like a
motherfucker motherfucker but nice
Hey, hey, hey, hold on, hold on, hold on.
I'm so critical, I'm still not convinced.
I still, I don't have any pep in,
I'm still not convinced to buy any,
so we'll see what other speakers say.
I mean, I didn't, I didn't think Paul,
I didn't think Pauli did that much of a job
because basically what he...
Brob...
As my retort,
yeah, go ahead.
Now go ahead.
I let you make your retort,
but like I'm saying for a meme coin,
come on,
like to put to...
And I know he's not calling it in a meme coin.
Sorry,
Paulie don't start shooting on me again,
but for the concept of meme coin...
Arguing for meme coins is not easy man.
Last time I did his face on this, I had Bitcoin OGs discuss and Matt Wallace was there and others.
It was fucking tough.
It's really hard to make the arguments.
But Saman, I'll let you retort and then we'll go to Peter and Joa.
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.
Because he's going, yeah, yeah, I agree with that.
Because he's coming from a very weak position.
He's doing a good job.
20 minutes.
If this is what weakness feels like, I wish I was the weakest person in the whole fucking world, motherfucker.
So, okay, don't it down. Peter.
You're not weak.
Yeah, I just want to...
Can you hear me?
Go ahead, Peter. Go ahead.
Yeah, go ahead, Peter.
Thanks.
I just want to push back on the idea that, you know, the argument was mentioned that this is a critical window of adoption.
And that by increasing awareness, that's the only thing we can do to save the space.
I reject that from both sides.
You hear it, A, Pepe is going to be the critical thing that gets Web3 to where it needs to go.
And on the opposite side, you hear this is bad for the space and there's no way we can progress as long as this stuff happens.
I reject both of those.
I think the technology is here to stay and Bitcoin is going to lead the way.
So ethical adopters who have positive externalities will do well.
You know, bad adopters who have negative externalities will do poorly.
And so, no, Pepe is not a gateway to mass adoption.
It's just a big bunch of fun.
But it has nothing to do with whether or not Web3 succeeds.
No one said it.
No, but you did.
You did.
We can go back.
You said something about this being a critical, temporal window of adoption.
I didn't say what you said.
Don't put words in my mouth, please, sir.
You're going to hold me to that standard whether if I don't do it verbatim
If you want to quote me quote what I said
I'm moving on
I can't I can't do that but my paraphrasing skills are better than yours I promise
Okay
Now the only point is
Guys guys guys guys guys guys please just one second
We can all agree that mass adoption is going to be accomplished through smart contract integration into business across the board.
Like true, true mass adoption is going to be infrastructure built off of blockchain technology, smart contracts,
and then the need or the ability to use tokens on top of it, no?
Do you build in crypto or are you a lawyer?
I build in crypto.
What do you build?
I build SaaS infrastructure.
Service as a software?
Yeah.
Infrastructure.
Web 3, SaaS infrastructure, yes.
So you're an expert?
No, I just gave my opinion, just like you gave your opinion.
I'm an expert on memes.
Okay, so listen, regardless if you like meme coins...
I don't disagree.
Regardless if you like meme coins or not, it is the best onboarding tool we have into crypto.
And I can guarantee you that 99% of the people are listening to this space,
either got into crypto due to meme coins, or their friends are bothering them all day talking about them, okay?
Crypto.com, when they share their reserves, listen.
I guarantee you it's not.
Listen, crypto.com, listen to me, crypto.com is a retailer exchange.
They showed 20% of their customers held fucking Shiba Inu, okay?
20% of the tokens were Shiba Inu.
So let's not forget that, in my opinion, Beamcoins are good for Bitcoin and all of
crypto at its current stage.
Okay?
It's current stage.
This is how we get people in.
I just reject the idea that there's an all of crypto that needs saving by a meme coin.
There is no all of crypto.
Let me let me let me let me let me let me let me let me I've got let me ask question to borovic
borovic can be a tough question man you were big in the nft community correct
borovic?
All right, bro. I've got a question. I know you've probably got other points to add. And again, also pleasure to have you. Thanks a lot for joining. My question to you, man, is why suddenly the entire NFT community that thought NFTs are here to stay and NFTs are going to change the crypto community, etc. Why suddenly every single NFT account I look at is talking about shit coins and meme coins?
Yeah, that's a very simple answer.
We live in an attention economy.
Attention is on meme coins right now when NFT volume is dried up.
Most people here are traders.
I mean, they're here for two things.
I mean, yeah, the tech, you come for the money, you stay for the tech.
That's the saying everyone says.
So obviously, you know, the easy answer is, yeah, the attention is focused on meme coins.
So everyone's here playing with meme coins.
Because if you tweet about NFTs, like I had a tweet, who's buying NFTs?
It got like 75% less engaged than who's buying meme coins.
So that answers your question, right?
I mean, it's literally value, right?
Attention is valuable.
I mean, like, a celebrity like Kim Kardashian gets paid millions of dollars, right?
You paid millions of dollars for a Super Bowl commercial, right?
And if everyone's seeing about Pepe and getting billions of impressions every single week,
how much are those impressions worth a lot of money?
And that is exactly why this token's going up because of all the attention.
So, I mean, that's like the simple answer.
Is that good enough?
At least you're honest about it.
But does that show like you're focusing on the attention?
That means you're focusing on what's making money rather that's what's creating utility.
Because I see NFT is still creating more utility than meme coins.
What utility?
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
What utility are NFT is creating?
Oh, well, you have an NFT, PFP.
Borovic have an NFT PFP as well.
I have an NFT PFP.
I didn't ask you that.
What utility are NFTs creating?
Please name one thing.
Well, if you look at PFPs as a community, as a utility, because I'm not a big fan of PFPs.
I invest in NFTs in games.
But if you look at PFPs, the utilities community.
Now, if you're going to use that same argument for coins, for meme coins, it's a fair point.
Then the argument comes in is NFT, PFPs.
Are they the same thing?
Are they pumping dumps as well?
Because they're all dumped and everyone's moved to meme coins.
You just said that NFTs have more utility, and now you're saying that the utility is the same as the coin.
NFTs, NFTs in...
Alright, so I'll answer it as well without shilling any NFTs, without shilling apes, without shilling crypto points.
Let's look at BoredApe.
Okay, okay, okay.
What does Pepe have? What does BoreApe have?
Uype have built an entire ecosystem.
They're building a metaverse, they're building a game.
They've got events, they've got physical events.
How do you compare that to Pepe?
I've just given you some.
If you use an ape to join a game, to join a metaverse, to join an event,
How's that no utility?
You want to join an event?
Get out.
Let's look at the decentralized.
Let's look at the decentralized.
Hey, wait.
Listen, I can have that built in five hours.
I can have that built in five hours.
You want it? I'll make it for you.
Five hours.
What do you want the utility to be?
But, Mario, your argument just went to what I was saying in the beginning.
Once you get to a certain scale, like Board 8, then they found the utility.
They didn't have the utility before.
They got it afterwards.
They got an audience.
Yeah, which is the, this is the right argument, I think.
This is the argument of Doge coin.
Is that can a meme coin
end up building utility?
Now, Paul, you're making the army?
I can build out a metaverse in five hours.
All right, where is it then?
Where is that utility for paper?
Where is that metaverse?
Now, you're probably going to promise to say,
it's coming, it's coming, it's coming.
It's an ERC 20, so it can do the same thing
as any other ERC 20.
It can.
It can.
So I think the ERC 20 as well.
There is one thing I want to mention because there's a lot of people listening.
I think it's important.
Me and Paul had come a little bit from different sides.
We agree that most of the meme community is bad.
So I want to ask you, because there's a lot of people listening...
Typically, mean coins go up at the end of a bull market, not at the beginning, as someone said.
Back in 2003, it was Doge, 2013, sorry, it was Doge.
2017, it was the CryptoKitties and the Shibas.
And now there's, then, oh, sorry, 2017, it was Shiba.
Yeah.
But typically at the end, at the hysteria moment of the max of the bull market, a lot of meme coins take off.
And when they die, the rest dies.
So I don't want to be telling people that are listening here that because memes are taking off, go put it into Bitcoin.
As someone mentioned earlier, I think that's really bad advice.
Well, here's the thing, Josh, you're 100% right that usually that is an absolute top signal and it's usually the end of a cycle, right?
There's no denying that in terms of history and patterns. That is a fact.
The difference with Pepe is that Pepe is the same, it's the same events, but they're in a completely different sequence.
Think of the movie Memento where the last scene of the movie is the first signal.
Pepe, I think.
But let me tell you why, let me tell you why, though.
Josh, let me say why.
Because the reason that Pepe is...
is out of order is because this didn't get distributed to venture capitalist institutional investors
and their influencer mafia first.
This went straight to the people and I was able to make sure that it was disseminated into
our little echo chamber of crypto explicitly in that fashion because I have a completely
polarizing following and I'm blocked by all of the big players in this space because I'm
counterculture because I don't go along with what they want.
I was able to literally distribute this to the people that follow me.
who are not big players.
The small guys got this first,
so you're confused because you're seeing us be euphoric and celebrating.
Like normally, VCs would be behind closed doors with their lobster and champagne.
Let me, let me, guys.
Eugene, I want to go to you.
I want to structure it in a question before going back to Slime Band
because I know he's boiling in the background.
So I want to go to you, Eugene.
Before I do, I just want to make it very clear, none of this.
And I think everyone would agree, anyone that cares about, you know,
being ethically, doing ethically the right thing or not facing legal issues.
None of this is financial advice.
And meme coins are speculative.
I think even Binaz did say when they listed Pepe,
which is obviously dominating the discussion right now at whatever,
$700 million market cap, whatever it is.
Even Binance when they listed it, I think there was a message like, hey, the founders likely bought up a lot of the supply when it launched, and this is speculative in nature and has no utility, which is an important disclaimer to mention.
Now, Eugene, I want to link it to you with a question.
It's very easy.
Mario, before you go over, I just want to add a little bit of thought.
And again, I'm not a fucking expert.
I'm simply giving kind of my observations on...
What could be a middle answer?
So the question was, why meme coins, why NFT go down, right?
I think there is a constant river of gambling.
There's a constant river of speculation that is always looking for that place to find that thrill, that testosterone, that...
That adrenaline, and surely hear me, NFTs are reaching a point where people are tired of actually switching out their PFEs and they put so much time online and in other experiences, creating an identity connected to their PFPs that there's no longer that excitement of trying to necessarily find that next pump.
And so there was a lull in the market in terms of digital identity.
And I'll agree with you as we get towards metaverses, as we get towards the manifestation and different slices of what digital identity means, I think that the meme point experience is the gap.
Yeah, so that kind of is like, hey.
Mim coins are there to speculate, I'm going to make it look pretty,
but it's there as a way to speculate and make money from NFTs to me
because that's how I understood this, Fiji.
Before somebody, before something...
He said it's an adrenaline and rush, essentially, it's basically a basic gambit.
Yeah, so I want to just, yeah, go, guys, guys, I do, so two things. Number one, again, for the, I have to remember the sponsors, I've pinned the tweet above, you can go through all the sponsors of the show, excluding the meme coins, because the sponsors are all startups. I'm happy to put my name behind. I'm happy to investing because I know how they work, and I invest in startups on a, on a weekly basis. The two meme coins that will be pitching along with the startups are WSB.
Wall Street bets and what was the other one called Capibara coin ERC.
And then, of course.
And then everyone called Pepper Scams.
I think all meme coins.
The thing is, Eugene, the way I look at meme coins and let me know the utility,
can we say, can I make an argument that meme coins start out as a potential pump and dump,
as a potential scam?
But if they start out in a decentralized fashion, they could become something with utility
that could become a decentralized ecosystem building as we saw with Doge.
Or do you disagree with that narrative as well?
Yeah, it's a great point. I actually think it all comes down to, I've been enjoying this discussion a lot, but I think it comes down to the foundations, right? So a good analogy, I think is like, you know, the constitutional Congress, right, like several hundred years ago. Like, I think that what the foundation of a, of a, you know, of a protocol is like Bitcoin, Ethereum and Pepe actually play a gigantic role, right? So laying good beginnings are everything, right? I think Frank Herbert said that in one of his books.
Yeah.
you know, beginnings are so important.
And what I do admire about Pepe is some of the things probably said. Now I'm going to go on to sort of, you know, say, say potentially less good things about it. But I will start that, you know, not having, you know, lots of VCs, not having lots of people who are insiders to, you know, get a lot of money from, you know, let's say an ICO. If we think back to the ICU days is kind of interesting.
I think Bitcoin similarly, you know, had sort of, you know, a fresh beginning. I think that's part of the attraction. But.
You know, I'll go back to, you know, actually, Pauli, I would love to behave.
So, Eugene, just to explain for the mass audit, just what you just said.
So, so one big concern in crypto, to talk about decentralization.
What happens, especially in the bull market, a lot of VCs would come in early, early on and get a big percentage of the supply.
And then when the project launches, they dump a whole bunch of it.
And that was a very flawed system that led.
So any centralization.
of token supply is a big red flag.
So before you engage with Pauli, Eugene,
I just got a question for you.
How centralize it?
And that question to you, Eugene, if you don't mind.
How centralize is Pepe?
Because I haven't looked into it.
If you can let me know,
and then I'll let you engage with Pauli.
Yeah, that's a good question. And there's certain chain data that can, you know, that can sort of verify this and look at it. I actually don't know about Pepe, but Ethereum, for example, you know, Vitalik still owns, I mean, I'm a big fan of Ethereum, by the way, and I've been in Bitcoin since for about a decade now. I'm a fan of both. But
You know, actually one of the questions I had about Polly was about the centralization of it.
But, you know, Ethereum, one of the issues, you know, holds a lot of it, right?
I mean, hopefully he's, you know, the benevolent, you know, steward.
And I think so far he's actually proven to be so, you know, these things can of course change.
But, you know, I think the centralization is super key, right?
There are these really old Bitcoin wallets, too, by the way, that are really interesting that have held Bitcoin for, you know, like over a decade and only recently have made some moves.
So, so one of the cool things about blockchain in general is sort of the transparency.
So, you know, and by the way, on the whole VC point.
I used to be a VC, right?
And one of the things I loved is when you, you know, we would invest very early on.
And then you get the IPO stage, right?
IPO is like the ICO, right?
It's like the time when you can unload and dump your position.
But I did love that some of the best VCs would hold in the IPO, right?
They didn't have to, by the way, because there's enough demand.
But.
But they would hold and the idea was not just for optics. I mean, that may be part of it.
Part of it was because we just kept believing, hey, you know, these companies are going to keep going up.
And by the way, some of those decisions, by it didn't work out, but some, a lot of them really did because some of these are great companies.
So if you back great companies, great founders, great applications, great utility, you can make a lot of long-term value.
And I think that's what all of us are talking about here, right?
But this is where I actually go to you, Paul, and maybe I'm a neophy here.
Maybe I don't know. I haven't in crypto a while. But.
you know, seeing Pepe go up has been really interesting.
I guess the question I have, for example, is, you know, you talk a lot about, there's been a lot of talks about memes and culture and this idea that you can tie in culture and money, right?
But I guess where historically have we seen that, right?
Culture and politics go hand in hand.
You see it across.
I mean, like,
the French Revolution was culture and politics, right?
It was basically like memes before there were memes.
So your question, your question, Eugene Tripoli, is like, what's the question?
Like, when, when, can a community be the value, can culture be the value of meme coins?
Is that what your question is you do?
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, it's like why there isn't a historical precedent.
There's a historical precedent for store value, Bitcoin, gold.
There's a historical precedent for application layer, right?
Ethereum and things built on it like a decentralized dexes.
right where you can trade derivatives right like that's valuable like I know that sounds kind of
esoteric but I it was very valuable you let me let me just need to push you team you team it was
what you're saying is salemann let me just say one thing so okay go ahead bro rider rider tonight
said Bitcoin was a meme I never heard that before and when I thought about it I'm like wait
a minute that was wild well I thought he's actually right you
It was an anti-culture movement.
No, no. It's not.
Wait a second.
Let me, let me.
Hold on, guys.
Let me get Brad Mills for this.
I need Brad Mills come up, bro.
We're talking about Bitcoin.
You need to be up here.
Guys, just be careful.
Don't take meme advice from attorneys.
That's a strong one.
I'm just saying it was an anti-cultural.
It was anti-government movement that took off and spread.
That's what a meme is, right?
Point blank.
And it took off.
And at what point did it go from being this like...
you're the ugly kid in your mom's basement to a prestigious store value, right?
Right? When did that happen? And to me, that happened in 2017. But that's a lot of years where we were seen as like the nerdy kids. I was mining Bitcoin and people were like, oh, you're mining invisible money. Like you know what I mean? Like there was a long time when people were being made fun up, just like people are being in front up today. And I'm not trying to compare the meme coins to a Bitcoin.
But there is a point where enough people believe in something, it does become store value.
That's what Bitcoin is.
I just want to say, I think that we're looking at this way too big picture.
Like what I really look at this as is I look at this as a very powerful experiment and a very powerful test study and case study in how you, if you incorporate aspects of culture and virality and communication issues.
and also love, if you incorporate things
which are very abstract to people
who are traditional finance, people are traders or lawyers or whatever,
I think that the important thing is to incorporate
all aspects and all walks of life.
And I think that Pepe is a very powerful experiment
in trying to really bring into the fold
the cultural and memetic aspect in a way that we haven't seen quite yet.
And the numbers support that.
The data, this is doing, what last thing I'll say is that literally within nine days,
Pepe was doing numbers that it took Shiba Inu nine months to achieve.
So the numbers-
But what people talk about-
Guys, just give me, guys, just give me one second.
This is actually a very interesting thought experiment.
Okay.
I knew we were having this space.
I did not organize this space.
Thank you, Mario, for putting me in the, the spiciest, most awkward position.
Half of the people in here have me blocked.
But that's not the point.
Shit!
Hold on, bro.
Anything I need to know?
Why is everyone blocking you, bro?
No, Polly.
You know, Polly has me blocked, and you know Gordon Goner has me blocked.
Peter has me blocked.
Just, just hear me.
Just hear me.
Guys, give me a second.
I want to finish off then.
I want to go to Brad.
Brad.
Brad is finally here to help.
So I'm going to be, I'm going to be completely transparent or as transparent as I'm going to be for this moment.
I actually started my crypto Twitter, like, history in Pauley and Ryder and Omak spaces, talking about IP.
Like, legit.
I had no idea about, like, about any of the background.
And that doesn't give lack or just, it's a fact of what happened.
What I think is really, really, really interesting is.
When we're talking about what we're talking about, does the human matter?
And I know it's just going to sound esoteric as fuck, but I'm being dead serious, right?
I'm probably going to get a shit ton of hate no matter what I say.
One way or the other, it's going to be a travesty.
Thanks, Polly.
The question becomes, the question becomes, what do we want to do with this technology?
Do we actually care about sovereignty?
Do we care about community?
And I know that we look at it on the flip and we say, can a token create or ride community into utility?
Right.
I think the more interesting questions is why do these things exist in the first place.
And Omar, you hate that because it doesn't actually answer anything specific.
I ask you a question on that.
When you're saying about community, you can keep hearing all you guys use the word community.
And I still need to, I had a few points for Pauli.
So when this community.
Humans.
Yeah.
Sleman, humans.
What else do we have but time?
Humans make up a community.
Quite right, fidgetal.
Right?
You're quite right.
But let's just go with the word community.
So when it comes to community, right?
Is everybody in this community making money or when it dumps, are some people in this community making a loss?
Like, does everybody win?
Slaman, okay, by definition.
It's basically, no, no, no.
They're voting with their money.
So let me go back, Slaman, let me go back.
Let me go back really quick.
I was trying to, first of all, I started the entire space by talking about the word conviction.
I think maybe the word didn't land, but what I was trying to say with conviction was is,
do we believe that the person to our left and our person to our right is not going to dump on us, right?
That is kind of a basis for the idea of community. Do I trust the person to the left and
and to the right. So conviction, community. You don't need to get deep about it.
But the real question becomes, and that's what I was trying to get at is, is where does it have an exit flywheel?
And I think that kind of actually sums up everything we're talking about.
So your argument is the best meme coin is who flinch is last?
Slaman, do you know what Mimetic means?
That's Slaman, but that's, I don't know how Fiji didn't make a good argument or you didn't understand it, Slaman.
What he's saying, and that's why I'll go to Brad Slaman, he's saying, when does this pump and dump group become a community, a decentralized community building value?
Slaman, do you think those...
Mario, I'll go deeper.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, the opposite.
No, just quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly, quickly.
I've had two, I've had two different spaces.
One was called...
Cult versus community.
And the other one was called cult versus humanity.
And the question becomes, just because it's a cult at the beginning,
is a cult necessary to get that flywheel and does it undermine, like, Christianity?
Everything was a cult to begin with.
Sorry, I'm done.
I know where you're going with this, to the meaning of life.
You always do this.
But let me go to Brad.
The argument that Fiji made initially, and I made, and Eugene who was on stage earlier,
was kind of hinting at.
When does a meme coin become
a doge coin, which I would categorize as a decentralized community trying to create value,
as an interesting experiment rather than a pump and dump group where most meme coins that launch are.
And obviously, there are comparisons made between meme coin and Bitcoin, which I don't think, I know you don't like the title.
I don't think it's a fair comparison at all.
When I put Bitcoin versus meme coins, what I meant is Bitcoin OGs debating the meme coin community.
But Brad, the mic is yours.
I appreciate you joining that.
Oh, I got you.
Dude, I think that, you know, thanks for bringing me up.
I think you've got to have, just going to have Bitcoin versus off coins or mean coins or whatever.
You should definitely have more.
Bro, we got, we got Bruce.
Bruce is worth 10 people.
You know Bruce.
Yeah, Bruce is awesome.
But listen, like, this is not a bull market.
And this is kind of the death throws.
of the people that made shitloads of money off of nihilistic degeneracy in the 2021-22 cycle.
There's no new bull market.
There's just people sloshing money around,
pumping and dumping new things until...
I mean, you guys were talking about Operation Choke Point 2.0 last month,
and everybody was saying, like, we were talking about the bank's failing,
and, like, this is Bitcoin's moment,
and how we've got to educate people about what Bitcoin is
and the risks in the banking system.
And then, like, three weeks later,
it's some new pump and dump showing up on the scene.
I actually don't agree with you that...
Dogecoin is something that's valuable, creating anything value, valuable.
It's just remnants of the bubble.
But Brad, is Bitcoin...
Brad, is Bitcoin a meme coin?
No, Bitcoin is not a meme coin.
You don't need to look at your left and look at your right and think, like,
oh, who's going to dump on me? Are you not going to dump on me?
No, I want you to...
I want you to explain. I think it's important.
Why is Bitcoin not a meme coin?
Mario.
I mean,
like how long are we going to talk, right?
There's a lot of,
there's a lot of,
I got at least five or six minutes.
Go ahead.
There's a lot of unique.
I'm going to structure it in a better way.
Brad is a Bitcoin OG,
one of the best I know.
And totally, obviously,
we can call you a meme coin OG now because of Pepe.
so Brad's,
What is, so based on the argument you've made, you don't think a meme coin could end up building a decentralized community that creates value.
I just think that's Kool-Aid.
I think that's 2021-22 Kool-Aid.
That utility has any value in the community and love and good vibes and all that bullshit.
It has any value.
That's Kool-Aid to convince you not to sell your coin so that the insiders can get higher prices.
And what do you, what do you mean, like, I like...
I love Pfe at a 10 million market cap because it was kind of counterculture and fun,
but at a billion market cap when it's like,
you know, people are shilling this all over the place
and bringing people in to get wrecked.
Mario, I got to run though.
I got a run and I just want to tell you guys,
I really appreciate being included here.
Brad, I'm so sorry to jump in.
I just want to thank Mario.
He's a force to be wrecking with,
even though him and I don't see eye to eye.
This guy's not going anywhere.
And neither am I.
My goal is to get Pepe to flip Shib and Doge
and then do $100 billion market cap.
So if I can't make that happen, I consider myself a failure.
But I just want to tell you guys, I appreciate the diversity of thought here.
And I hope to do it again soon, Mario.
Thank you very much, you guys.
I appreciate it.
I think you'll flip Shib and Doge, but on the way down, I think maybe 100 million market cap or something like that.
May the dumbest DGN win.
And look, I got to talk to these engineers and developers.
We're working on shit.
I got to run.
I love you guys.
Thank you.
We love you, Pauli.
Pepe is love, baby.
All these plugs.
Legit.
Let's go to, so Brad, I said your position, Udi, I would love to get your thoughts on that
same argument because that's, I think it all comes down to whether a meme coin, like for me,
I would only get involved if I believe, and this is me, obviously everyone's different
and Brad will probably never get involved.
I actually disagree with Brad when he said I like Pepe when it's 10 mil, but I don't like
it when it's a billion.
I think it's the opposite.
When it's a billion, it makes more sense,
because now it's less likely to do 1,000x or 100x or even 10x.
So it's less of a pump and dump than when it's 10 million
when it is a definition of pumping dumps or Brad,
I think you kind of, you made the opposite argument
of what I expected.
I think the bigger the market gaps,
the more, let me ask Bitcoin.
Wasn't Bitcoin a meme in the beginning?
And then eventually that meme evolved.
Oh no, you let him a lady up.
You let him a lady up.
You let him a lady up.
Mario, do you, we've talked about this, like,
six months ago.
Six months ago, we were talking about this.
We have not yet had capitulation.
Do you think we've had capitulation yet in crypto, meme coins?
Yes.
Not me.
meme coins, no, bro.
Beam coins will capitulate every week.
But in crypto?
Yeah, bro.
Come on.
You're going to expect more capitulation.
You never took your profile picture off.
Remember I said once you take your profile picture off, that's the bottom.
Yeah, bro.
You never took it off, so we haven't yet capitulated.
Bro, then we're never going to capitulate if that's your argument.
Like I had, I fucking had...
That's the point of capitulation.
It has to get so bad that you're going to remove that...
that hexagon from your profile
because you'll be so embarrassed.
He's close.
That's capitol.
He's close.
That's like six months to a year away.
You have Robin Hood, man.
You have a Robin Hood profile picture.
Don't make fun of mine.
What makes you Robin Hood?
Just because you're a Bitcoin OG?
Don't jab at me, Brad.
Don't jab at me, bro.
But like, going back to the argument,
just messing with you.
I'm just messing with you.
Bitcoin. By the way, it's it's it's it's Roman hood met in pants.
And Brad, it's man in tights. It's men in tights. It's not okay. So Brad, Brad, the argument that you made, which kind of surprises it's enough. Fuck the argument. I want to go back to Bitcoin.
Bitcoin started out as a meme.
I'm going to use the word meme very loosely here.
And by the way, Bitcoin for me is the OG and there's nothing compares to it.
And that kind of goes without saying.
But going back to the argument, it started out as a mean that people made fun of.
It stood for something and it was decentralized.
Eventually, once adoption kicked in, that's when it became valuable.
So can't the same argument be made for meme coins without telling people go there and sit there trading?
Most meme coins will end up being pump and dumps.
But not all meme coins are equal.
Is that a fair way to characterize it, Brad?
I just don't think that that logic's going to pass the test of time.
I think we're still in a bubble, somewhat bubbly logic.
What do you mean,
What do you mean?
Yeah,
before going historical,
what do you mean bubble?
Like,
you have something.
How much more capitulation do you want
when stable coins were not trusted?
My God, dude.
How much is Shiba Inu worth right now?
Please stop using the word capitulation.
Why?
There's so many overvalued coins and projects.
There's so many VC treasuries that still haven't been depleted.
The quid.
So was that you do?
Udi, Udi, Udi, we're going to take a time before we get to wizards and ordinals and showers.
But the showers are undervalued.
There's no liquid coin.
There's no lightning coin.
There's no pump and dump for the liquid network.
The company is vastly overvalued.
A lot of things in Beth coin are vastly overvalued.
Let me get the mass market audience to speak.
The people don't understand the basics.
You don't take it step back before we go too deep.
Slyman, what do you think about the argument we've heard so far?
Yeah, thanks, bro. Yeah, and the thing is, you're right, because essentially the argument always is when you've got people who try and use, like, complex terminologies or what people don't understand, if you get an average Joe from the street, he can basically smash their points up because they live in their own bubble and so they're not able to see outside that bubble.
So what I've heard now, and please just correct me if I'm wrong, the whole summary of the argument of why this meme coin is brilliant is because...
It's a community.
And the reason why the community is,
and it's important because allegedly,
even though it's a community,
not everybody in the community makes money,
not everybody's a success.
As soon as somebody yields or gets worried or capitulate,
then there's a dump and they lose money, right?
Now, for me, I don't see anything...
intrinsically good or important about meme coin.
And please, someone present me with a more stronger argument.
It's essentially something like a PlayStation game,
for example, Fortnite, where you're collecting coins,
those coins, but in this scenario,
that can increase significantly and can be dumped
and you can lose a lot of money.
So my question to everyone here is,
just for the average listener,
other than the community argument,
which I think is very weak,
give me another argument for why there's something of value
when it comes to these meme coins.
I got you. I got you. Well, first off, I think it's really interesting that nobody, nobody even attempts to pretend to answer your question, Mario. You asked the question, didn't Bitcoin start out as a token? And by the way, if you look up the definition of a token, a token is a symbol. Like a token in and of itself is worth...
You said a meme, not a token. Okay. Thank you. But...
So Bitcoin started, I'm asserting then, that Bitcoin started out as a token and then utility and infrastructure was built around it.
Right? Is that right, Brad, or is that wrong?
A token is nomenclature from ICOs and Ethereum.
No, no, it's a yes or no. Did Bitcoin start out as a token?
No, it started off as code, a network, and a proof of work.
Software.
All right.
So it wasn't just.
Can you say without being offended or triggered, can you say that Bitcoin started
off as an asset?
Can you say that?
Right.
Can you say Bitcoin is a token?
Just say to digital.
No, I would just say to digital.
Is Bitcoin a token?
Bitcoin's monetary properties were baked into it from the beginning.
It hasn't changed since.
It started as a complete system.
I mean, obviously there's been bips and upgrades and there were bugs found in the early days.
Would you say that Pepe is incomplete in some sense?
I don't.
I don't think it's comparable.
It's like the hex people saying that like hex is so I would say back it's better than
Bitcoin.
It's like the same level of dumb argument.
Back when we started it was centralized.
Okay, it was like people literally went on a forum on Bitcoin talk.
and read announcements from Satoshi himself, literally, literally just like you get, you have like a founder, an anonymous founder of a project today that goes to a Twitter and says, hey, we have an update, you know, and we have an announcement.
Literally in the exact same way, people would congregate in the Bitcoin talk forums, watching this anonymous founder, Satoshi.
Right.
making announcements literally the exact same thing they would update their software whenever he told them to
they had no idea what was going on or how it works they had no idea about any of that you know
say fideen did not write his uh digital but but the monetary properties of bitcoin have not changed
since the beginning yeah but there's been 13 years of credible scarcity with bitcoin
PIP is monetary policy.
But nobody can change, nobody can change the monetary properties at the point.
The point is he could back then.
Back then he could change whatever he wanted to.
He actually did.
He actually did.
So he did because there were box.
Not the monetary properties.
He did because there were bugs in the monetary policy.
So he fixed the bugs back.
No, there wasn't.
They didn't change the monetary property.
They put a fix in because there was a 20-14 bug.
Let me go back.
Before getting too technical, because we do have a mass market audience.
I want to kind of move to one other question to Frank.
Frank, you lead one of the biggest NFT projects.
I asked a question earlier that no one gave a good answer.
Lala tried, I wasn't convinced with the answer.
The NFT community was talking about utility,
how NFT PFTs are the new way to build a community, et cetera.
And now suddenly every fucking NFT profile is talking about meme coins
and how meme coins are the next thing.
Some of them are being honest about it,
saying it's a quick way to gamble and make money.
Others are being either dishonest or delusional about it
that meme coins will be the new community building business.
tool.
What happened to NFTs?
What happened from shifting from one thing to another?
Is it the new thing that's making money?
Great argument, Frank.
Now I'm just a great question.
No, I think it's a great question.
I feel like there's a lot of people that have a lot of narratives.
I try to keep it as honest as possible.
And I think a vast majority of people in crypto and quite frankly in Bitcoin as well are here for monetary purposes.
I think whether you're whether you believe like Bitcoin is the best savings instrument and, you know, going to be the future global reserve currency or you believe you're going to 100x.
on the next fucking meme coin,
you're both here for financial reasons.
And so I think no matter what the asset is,
whether it's someone winning $100,000 in sports betting
off of like a dumb parlay that they put $6 in,
Or they put $12 in Pepe and turned into $1.2 million.
Or they minted a board ape for $200 and turned into $150,000.
Whatever the narrative is, human beings psychologically are very attracted to these stories of rags to riches, quote, unquote, or making an insane amount of gains.
And so recently it's definitely been meme coins that have been where both people are losing a lot of money and making a lot of money.
I think that there is a large subsection of the crypto community that is more akin to online gambling than it is to any type of substance.
But I don't think that should be demonized in the same way you're not getting lectured by Bitcoin Maxis when you throw $100 on the Lakers winning today, which they are going to win today, Lakers and Six.
And so I just find that the I just find that the narrative oftentimes is-
So what do you think, Frank, that Bitcoiners don't go after sports book promoters? Why do you think Bitcoiners don't care about that?
Well, I was about to get to that.
So I think that what Bitcoiners do is label everything that is not Bitcoin, essentially
like what they believe as misleading marketing.
But I don't think Pepe nor any meme coin is saying that they are going to become the new
monetary policy.
I don't think that a lot of these are saying that they're going to be.
Dude, they've been talking in this space that this is the new store of value.
Pepe coin is the new store of value for the meme economy, which is the strongest network of energy in the planet.
They're saying that shit.
That's a joke.
That's a joke.
No, but Brad, please.
But, yeah, I was about to say, I mean, you just sound a little bit like a boomer when you take that stuff seriously.
And I'm sure people do take that stuff seriously.
But I think that's a much smaller percentage.
So do the people buying this thing at a billion market cap thinking that, oh, I guess this is a new ghost coin.
Let's separate which I'm having fun and making profits.
It's a pumping dump, man.
It turned into a pumping dump, which is kind of.
I think it's dangerous across the board.
But I think, again, Brad, like, please let me finish my sentence here.
In the same way that Bitcoiners are getting upset at people for trading meme coins.
There are a lot of Bitcoiners that told their friends, their family, their aunts, their uncles to buy Bitcoin when it was $69,000.
And now they're down 70%.
But for some reason, there isn't this moral grandstanding about that, which I would argue is equally as bad.
Pepe's not even down 70% yet.
Like...
Again, I just think the idea that anyone can be in Bitcoin, crypto, whatever it is,
and stand on moral high ground is a little bit ludicrous because it's all of that majority of space.
I mean, I think you've been like fairly honest actually about your point.
And that's the way you've explained is how I've understood it.
But just I'll try and summarize what you said.
and just correct me if I'm wrong, right?
And again, I'm doing it for the average listener,
which is one of which I am and myself, right?
So essentially what you're saying is,
unlike everybody else who was basically trying to make it look like
it was something about love and community and all these things.
You're saying essentially when it comes to crypto,
it is actually for monetary purposes.
There is gambling going on,
but why are you guys complaining?
We cherish that and we don't mind it being a gamble,
but we're cool with this or why are you guys complaining?
Is that your, is that,
is I've,
have I concisely stated what you said or about inappropriate what you said?
I think for the most part that's accurate, the one nuance that I would add is there's an element.
I think Udi was referring to this where in the early days for something like Bitcoin, people
had no conception of how large and how different it would be 10 years from now.
There's a lot of things that are the same, but there's also a lot of things that are different.
And I think that's just evidenced by the number of people that thought that $10 was the top of Bitcoin,
you know, like back in the day.
And so I think my point is we're very quick to have these.
high assertion, high conviction beliefs on where the future of anything is going to be.
And I think that's a, it's not the right approach.
The right approach is more, hey, I don't know for certainty because nobody actually knows
with certainty what is going to happen in the future.
At the end of the day, for a large part of me is a Bitcoin maximalist.
I do believe in a lot of the values of Bitcoin.
I think Bitcoin is different than the rest of the asset classes in crypto.
But that doesn't mean I can sit here with certainty and say,
say that the future global reserve currency is going to be Bitcoin.
I can make an educated guess.
But who the fuck knows what's going to happen?
And so I just think that a lot of people tend to miss a tribute, you know, why people are buying fucking Pepe because they see a clear joke tweet that everyone's retweeting because it's clearly a joke.
And then they assume that everyone genuinely thinks that.
It would be like if I said to Bitcoiners, everyone that says I've literally zero dollars in my bank account, which is a common Bitcoin meme and I just buy everything with Bitcoin.
That's not actually true.
Those people are actually paying rent, probably actually have a little bit of USD, but obviously it's a fucking joke.
Very little bit.
Obviously, they don't have 100% in Bitcoin.
Let me.
I mean, okay.
So guys, two sakes.
So guys, I think everyone's speaking at the sound.
First, massive shout out to Jack Levin.
Jack, I'd love to bring you on stage for the next space because I think this one, we're not going to have time to talk about ordinals.
So Jack Levin will be joining us, hopefully, in the next base.
He's one of the first, if not the first Google back-end architects.
I'm a big fan.
That's why I wanted to give him a shout-out, Jack.
I would love you on the next panel.
For all new speakers requesting, we might not be able to bring you up on this particular stage.
Just we don't have much time to move to Bitcoin Ordinals and BRC tokens
because I think we went too deep down the meme coin discussion.
Simon, I want to let you respond.
Then we'll go to other panelists, including Trevor.
As I kind of wrap up, I want to wrap up.
Yeah, what's your question, bro?
Yeah, yeah, my question is...
Marri, can I wrap it up?
I have a really good point.
Because I've got...
Let me just have asked this question,
and then I'm sure you'll have an excellent point to add to it, Joa.
You always do.
But, Udi,
essentially what Frank is saying is what I thought at the beginning,
I'm just...
I appreciate the clarity because this is not what everyone was saying at the beginning.
Essentially, and he's just saying, let's...
appreciate it, let's accept it
and then why are you guys complaining?
We know what we're getting into.
And so what you guys should deal with it
and essentially what he's saying is, yeah, it is a gamble.
But it can go well, the gamble can go really well
and he obviously believes, so hence why he's in it.
But then the gamble could go bad as well.
And that's essentially what meme coin is
is essentially gambling.
and it's like any other game
what's your thoughts on that udi
but it's unregulated
but the udi
it's unregulated gambling
that's what concerns me
it's like you've just got
the things that are being said by influences
the things that are being said
is like people just don't get the fuck about the law
like I don't understand if they're
and I'm surprised it's still happening after what we saw
with FTX and
Luna all that shit and regulators cracking down
I'd never, I thought that was it.
That was the end of it.
You sound like a boomer, Mary.
You sound like a boomer.
I'm fucking embarrassed.
No, but those people are going to have legal actions that come to them.
That's the crux of it, right?
Like, the only argument you can really make against meme coins is that they're illegal,
which is a strong argument.
But it's very, it's very different than the moral argument that people are making is my main point.
It's like, yes.
These things are definitely like illegal scams that 99% of these people are doing.
But if you're making a legal argument, then just say that.
Like say this is illegal, you are going to jail.
Don't do this.
But that's very different than saying you shouldn't, like for the buyer and the seller,
that you shouldn't indulge in this.
No, but Frank, the moral argument comes in.
One of them is centered on the person to say this.
And the other one is trying to shame people for participating in a behavior that is honestly
very core to human behavior in general.
No, but Frank, the moral argument comes in because I like it's a question.
Let me just push back on you there, Fran.
Because the moral argument comes in, not in what you said.
So I appreciate what you said.
But the moral argument comes in.
We've been on the space for an hour or two.
And one of the main arguments people were making is actually we're a community.
It's not about gambling.
It's about being, you know, love and being, it's all about being love and being part of a community.
We work together.
We make money together.
And when people hear that, they're not thinking that they're gambling.
They're thinking there's some kind of communal aspect to it.
Oh, it is all about community.
And that's where the moral argument for me comes in from what I think.
Yeah, but that's mostly the Bitcoin.
Can I add something?
Salimant.
Salimant, what I wanted to add to that was Frank said something that made me think about the sports betting, right?
If you buy a lottery ticket, no one in the world calls that investing.
But it could be the best investment you ever made in your life if you win, right?
And that's the problem is we call everything crypto.
So because it's crypto, everything's an investment.
And some of it's not.
Some of it's a gamble.
A lot of it is a gamble, right?
And because everyone, and we make the same mistake, even almost all the people on the panel are into crypto, I believe.
And...
Most of us all classified as one thing, and it's not one thing.
And that's the problem is it's not old enough or mature enough to have all these subsets of this is a lottery ticket and this is a sound investment.
And that's the problem.
And we're making the same exact mistake on this panel.
Hey, can I just jump in real quick?
Also, by the way, something that nobody has mentioned,
and I know why certain people didn't mention it
because certain people that love Pepe don't love these companies.
But the coin is four weeks old,
And even though NFTs are pretty much, you know, not a lot of people are buying them right now.
You can use your Pepe to buy NFTs on OpenC.
You can use your Pepe to buy NFTs on manifold.
So is there a community-based argument?
Yes, there is.
Do I expect everyone, especially like Wall Street types, to understand or embrace that aspect of it?
No, absolutely not.
But to pretend that it's just this feel good, you know, community thing, that's not all that it is.
Like, it.
it has all this volume, which is, like Pauli said,
incentivizing builders to integrate it into whatever they're building.
And in four weeks,
it's already viable on the largest NFT platforms in the world.
And to answer,
and to go deeper into your question,
Mario,
when it comes to NFTs,
like profile pictures,
right?
Profile pictures invoked community.
It invoked tribalism.
And a lot of people like,
Especially influencers and founders, they use that to play to people's emotions and to sort of guilt-trip people if they sold, you know.
And then eventually Blur came along and trading of NFTs became much more like...
pro trading, you know, a desk than it was like focusing on the individual profile picture.
It was more like, I'm trading board apes rather than I'm trading board ape number 4065 for
board ape number 382 or whatever, right? It became a...
But that was just wash trading to farm another...
Just hold on, Brad. Hold on. Hold on. Let me just finish my thought. Of course, of course,
there's watch trading in NFTs. I agree there's watch trading.
No, the whole blur mechanic was wash training.
Okay, okay, that's fine.
That's fine.
Agreed.
I can just finish my thought.
The NFT whales could dump on all these dumps coming in thinking blurs the next big thing like Pepe.
Brad, you're not, you're not even refuting my point.
My point is that Pepe is sort of a natural extension of that for the NFT community.
Because Pepe is not about, oh, I have this individual Pepe profile picture number 86532.
It's like I'm part of the Pepe community, which, by the way, the meme has been around since 2005.
It predates Bitcoin as a meme, as a community.
So you're tokenizing a community that's been around for 18 years in the same way that Bitcoin was tokenizing Occupy Wall Street.
So I just think, and by the way, this whole conversation is...
been very binary where we're either comparing Pepe to Bitcoin or we're comparing it to Doge.
There's a, you know, what if we compared it to XRP? What if we compared it to Cardano? What if we
compared it to Tron or Lightcoin? There's a whole, if you want to make a moral argument,
what's the moral argument of a coin that promises nothing?
versus a coin that has a totally fake utility that nobody actually used.
I mean, all the coins are you guys.
Just give me a second.
Slaman, you literally know nothing about this.
So just just pause.
I mean, it sounds like I know more than you guys.
Slaman, please.
You literally know nothing about this stuff.
I mean, it sounds like you guys are black.
You're going to encourage a bunch of people to talk shit about the space.
So please just calm for a second.
Spada, I think there are functional differences between the tokens, the marketing, the adoption of the things that you discussed, right?
XRP was the first massively adopted banked the unbanked, right?
That's what that's what Ripple was.
All right.
So, right?
Like coin was a version of that.
Well, it was remittances. It was remittances. Bitcoin is banking the un-
Guys, I want to go back to my comfort zone.
So every show we do, actually I'm going to give Trevor,
Trevor does great shows as well.
I'm going to give him a quick, get his thoughts on the entire ecosystem
because I know you're a Bitcoin OG deep into ordinals.
So we're going to do next space about ordinals as well.
For the audience, we generally don't do crypto spaces from this account
because it's hard for me to do a space talking about
you know, fucking Ukraine war or China tensions
and then do a space about fucking ordinals.
But we do have another account
that I co-host that runs crypto shores
and we get deeper into this.
But Trevor, get your thoughts on this,
your thoughts on meme coins,
and then we're going to have a few startups pitch,
you know, the typical shark tank pitches that we have.
And then we do have the first meme coin pitches.
I have no idea how they'll go.
It took me a while to accept it.
meme coin pitches, so we'll see how these go.
Trevor, final quick words, man, meme coins,
pump and dump, community building,
decentralized communities with value creation,
Should they be illegal?
Should they be looked at?
What should the average retail investor do?
Yeah.
Without government financial advice, I mean,
I think the average retail investor should not buy into something they don't understand.
And I think, but at the same side, like not all of the token ecosystem is the same.
Like there's a wide gradient of different things here.
And, you know, when it comes to the Bitcoin maxis, specifically the laser-eyed maxis,
There's the hypocrisy is like insane. Hypocracy is like psychopath level, almost respectable how, how psychopath it is in the way that like every holier than thou, Bitcoiner who's never sinned, never traded, never dinged, et cetera, somehow always has like many friends. I don't know how they have these friends, but they have many friends.
who somehow invested their life savings in a token and like lost it all and are poor and homeless and their life is ruined.
And, you know, I don't know how like you're not involved in something and like you have all these friends who like were involved in it because I've been I'm like a DGen.
I also run a Twitter space literally just about DGent trading called not financial advice.
And, you know, in my like two years of going intense like borderline gambling as much as I can, I only have like one friend out of everybody who made a million dollars in the bowl and then lost a million dollars in the collapse.
And honestly, like he's fine.
Like actually it was probably good for him.
He's young.
He learned a lesson.
He's back in the game now.
And I just, I think like a lot of Bikarners almost like make up these stories because on the on Twitter they're posting like, you know, these are all ornals are all pumping.
Dude, this is ridiculous.
Brad, let me finish.
Trevor, let me finish.
Let me finish, Brad.
Let me finish, Brad.
Let me finish, Brad.
Let me finish, Brad.
Right.
None of my friends got rugged except for one person.
He's fine.
Okay.
Millions of people lost the money in FTX, Luna, Celsius.
Here's my point.
Voyager.
Yeah, Brad, you're one of these guys, Brad.
Dude, are you serious?
You're one of these guys posting on Twitter.
I never did laser eyes.
Sure, sure.
There are many Bitcoin Maxis out there posting about how this is like the worst thing ever to happen in Humany.
Meanwhile, I have screenshots in my fucking DMs of these same people.
like literally saying so-and-so is going to pump this token, let's get a big supply of it and
fucking dump it. And so the hypocrisy is psychopath level. And yeah, I don't think retail
investors should play games where there's more sophisticated traders in it. But I think Bitcoin
Maxis, it's a larp. It's just blaming Bitcoiners on all the crazy scams that happen.
No, these are not Bitcoin. It's just completely gaslighting. No, I'm not.
Brad, go ahead. Let Brad respond. Go ahead, Brad.
Look, I just wanted to respond to Franklin, but he's gone.
I mean, I'm probably the only person on stage here that bought Bitcoin at $10 and $69,000.
And I've been here the whole time, and this is not the narrative of Bitcoin and what Bitcoin is.
has not changed.
Like maybe some people, what they thought Bitcoin was has changed.
But Bitcoin's been the same thing since I've been in Bitcoin for 12 years or whatever it's been.
It's digital gold.
It's payments.
It's a way to protect yourself from debasement of the money supply.
I love a Brad.
I love a bad thing.
I love a big.
Brad, like people, people hold people.
I just wanted this.
I just wanted to say it because earlier they were saying that like Bitcoin's changed.
It used to be a,
used to be a meme coin and all this stuff.
I'm like, it's not.
It's always been what it is right now.
You were supposed to.
No, but it's not true.
It's way to go over the server fast.
You're supposed to respond to my points, not someone else's points, Brad.
You're supposed to respond to my points.
No, you did. I said it was stupid. Like, there's millions of people that got absolutely wrecked in the failure.
All these Ponzi-Pihanzification crap that's crypto guys built.
Retail investors hold some share of responsibility for how the investor-o-money.
Crypto confess. People hold responsibility. Layser-Hipoyon phone members.
Go follow crypto confessions.
Follow crypto confessions.
Nothing to do with Bitcoins.
And you can see all the people that have gotten completely destroyed,
just crypto people admitting all the crazy shit that they...
There's people who got destroyed in every area of the economy, dude.
So put...
So, like, gaslighting Bitcoin...
I'm not gaslighting, dude.
Just falling all about this bullshit.
Dude, I have screenshots of people that you know, that you interact with,
who are posting on Twitter how everyone else is pump and dumping and they're pump and dumping like secretly
so you know people hold responsibilities it's like it's different different
Different layers to whichever.
Different layers.
Like I have, I get like the meme, I'll get the Bitcoins.
No, actually I'll get the VCs attacking me, attacking the meme corners and why I have
meme corners or NFT guys in the old days, NFT guys on stage when NFT was a thing.
And then Bitcoin guys would shit on me for having these VCs on stage because they're just
pumping up these startups, even though many of them are doing the right thing in
Then the macro guys get mad at you for having bitcoinsers.
Exactly.
And then in my macro show,
and Dynish is going to kill me after this,
I have all these guys that will shit on me
for even being in the crypto space,
and then it doesn't finish there.
And now the political guys
and all the anti-establishment guys
are coming to political spaces and all that,
shitting on me for having the macro guys.
And then obviously we have the geopolitics guys
around the world shitting on me having
domestic political people.
I mean, different layers.
Maybe get the message.
The bottom, but after.
I mean, everyone is.
Yeah, exactly. Mario, I agree with you. I think the message is here, be skeptical of what everyone tells you. Be skeptical of any group, make your own rational decisions, and people share responsibility, at least partially, for what they do with their own money. Like, that's the key message.
All right, so I'm going to start the pitches because this went way over time.
Everyone on stage would do this pretty quickly.
So it has to be very honest, very objective.
When they're project pitches, there's no guidelines on what questions you can ask.
If you love them, you can say that.
If you want to invest, you can invest on the spot.
Fiji, you've done this a lot as well on the other show that we host.
So you can help me out with this.
And if you hate them, you could criticize them as much as you like.
Slaman, you've never done these pictures with us.
So it's going to be fun to see you ask questions.
Let me get Ninja up. Ninja's good at asking questions as well on projects that are pitching.
Doobsy's good.
Dubsy, sorry, I've never had you on a pitch space.
So here's my recommendation.
Lala, do you have a timer?
This is how we run the spaces regularly.
Okay, let's do it.
Can you track 90 seconds?
Are you trying to make me the bad guy, the one that cuts everybody off?
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
You have to cut it off.
You have a nice voice.
Fiji, I like how you just, you copied the way we run it and then took credit for it.
Fiji, that's how you treat me.
We don't need to do this right now.
Lala, if you can get 90 seconds.
So the way that we approach the shark tank...
Fiji, do you know what I'm doing?
Sorry, do you know what we're doing?
I've got to mention it.
You know, we're actually doing a physical shock tank show
that we're going to be filming as well
later this year?
I do know.
Wendy's going to be on it as well.
Oh, no, not this one.
This one's meant to be discreet.
This is not ours.
Oh, sorry, somebody else.
I'm completely different.
I'm guessing this one.
There's another one that I'm guessing as a few celebrities
guessing it as well as judges.
But I don't get credit and I'm not allowed to announce it yet.
But it's still discreet.
We're doing our own one, bro.
Okay, so here's the way that I have,
I've approached the Shark Tank spaces is,
before.
Before anybody actually goes live on Shark Tank, they obviously audition, right?
And they're trying to help a pitch.
So the first...
governing it to 90 seconds is trying to help you or anybody kind of facilitate the pitch the next is
now that you've learned that or you might fucking crush it how do you resolve and come back and actually
present and the goal is to actually guide business in a way that doesn't fuck retail everyone
everyone requesting to speak only requests if you want to help us judge this and if you you know
how to ask the right questions otherwise uh no need to be here
All right, let's start the first pitch.
So we have Artonar, AR toner, sorry bro, sorry man.
A.R. Toner, pleasure to have you.
Again, the projects that are pitching, I'm happy to, you know, I'm comfortable.
I think we're invested in many of them.
We accept tokens for pitches, so we're vested if they do well, but we're also going to be honest.
So don't hesitate guys if you're not happy with the project's pitch.
Lala, do you want to kick off the timer, Rtoner, A.R.
Toner, you'll start with Lala says so and then finish when she jumps in.
All right, you're free to go.
Perfect. Thanks a lot.
Thank you, Mario, also, for having us on and also the continued support from the IBC side.
But let me dive right into it.
So we are AR-T-Wner.
We're building an automated system to create NFT collections in a few seconds.
And we've been operating for over a year now, profitably and fully bootstrapped.
We've worked with...
over 20 large brands, including Labardini,
we did a few projects for the MBA, Inkbox, and a few others.
And now we're looking to fully automate this process of NFT creation using AI, post-funding.
And we have two sides to it.
So the first part is the tool where people come on board.
They type in their bronze.
They type in the amount of the collection, so they type in
cool looking cats for 100, and then they get 100 consistent variations with the metadata,
with the specific traits, and the full collection.
And also they get descriptions and specific names also generated with AI based on the visual
that is generated.
And secondly, we have an API part that we're now testing with marketplaces and certain games that integrates directly into their system.
So you go on X Marketplace, you want to create an FD, you click on Create, then you type in your prompt directly there, and then you get your collection there also.
So it's also adding another layer of automation on top of the already automated system.
And the more exciting part that I want to finish off with is the 3D part that we've been working on for a long time and all the other collections that we did for Lumbergini, Cedify, Incbox, were all 3D collections.
So that's also our expertise.
So we also want to build a system that creates 3D.
5 seconds.
Yeah, so the last part is where we want to have an AI system to create 3D NFTs.
So then your output channels to be used in games in metaverses and also in different settings.
And that's the second stage.
Sorry, that was a long five seconds.
All right.
So first, okay, so I'm going to do this.
La La, la, let me kick it off.
So number one.
because I forgot there's two meme coins that will be pitching.
Mem coins, listen to this.
The first thing that this gentleman said, they're profitable and fully boots trap.
This is my concern with meme coins.
You don't have to be profitable.
Dogecoin was not profitable when it launched, but just to compare the two.
Now, I want to also mention one thing.
I'm happy if the meme coin pitches, I don't think they will.
If they convince me of the value of building a community,
I'm happy to make my first investment into meme coins.
Unlikely this will happen, just a heads up.
Now, on the other hand, a project like AR toner,
and I'm sure Fiji are gonna have questions.
I'll give you the mic first and Dubzi,
I'll see your hand up as well.
You're profitable and fully bootstrapped.
You're already working with Lamborghini in NBA.
Why do you need to use AI to create NFTs?
What's the point of AI?
Why do you need to create it so quickly?
What's the benefit?
And why do you need AR toner for this?
Can't you use any other AI tool to create pictures?
Yeah, so there's two sides to it.
The reason why we are doing it is we used to have a 3D system that was semi-automated, so that was our expertise.
So it started off by automating the 3D parts.
So to create 3D NFTs in an automated way, because...
The traditional 3D space is very labor-heavy, so we need to have a huge team to create all those.
So including another layer of automation there, one allows us to provide the service in a lower cost and also in a faster way.
And also why not any other AI generator is because they're not focused on NFTs.
So the metadata is not structured for an NFT.
The traits are not separated.
So in our case, you get all of them and you get all of their traits.
So it's truly an NFT and not just an image itself.
So that's in short answer.
Tabzy, Fiji?
Who cares?
Who cares about, okay, there we go.
Typical.
What is it, Fiji?
Now, let's see.
Fiji, who cares about what, bro?
Please.
So the most important question, so we talked earlier about we were, and I respectfully, we talked
earlier about like the word utility.
We talked about.
The way that the word utility is misused, for the most part, it's misused.
I'd say 99% of the time it's misused as an excuse for a value proposition that allows you to sell shit to the public and somehow don't need to register that asset class, that's clear, whatever it is.
So my question is not meant to be insulting.
My question is actually the same question that I was told to ask every time a crypto project pitched anything to me.
Or I pitched a crypto project to somebody else, which is, why token?
So my question is, when I say who cares, the question really is why?
What does utilizing Web3 and blockchain infrastructure and smart contracts and tokens, whatever it is?
Why?
Why are you using Web 3?
So one of the thing is that since we work with a lot of M&Es,
we see that they lack the specific toolset that they need to integrate into Web3.
This is the example of Lamborghini, Inqbox, and many others.
And they need that ease to integrate into the Web3.
And when we at least have the ease of use of them for this part,
the art part or the metadata part, that brings them a step closer to integrating with West 3.
That brings them a step closer to integrating with Web3.
this world and I think that's where we come in and I think we have the
M&E projects that we work with to validate this idea that they do want to do it
but it's a dark hole for them and it's not easy to go down that route so we're
just trying to ease that process for them I would say
Tabsy, Trevor, Borovic, and Fidde, you could just jump in, guys, pretty chill, whatever you like.
Yeah, I'll jump in then.
So I'm pretty experienced with, like, AIR and all of different models.
So I don't know if I caught if you said which model you're using.
I'm sure it's not like your own, right?
You're using just different models from like stable diffusion or like Mid Journey or Daly or what?
Yes, it's a fine-tuned version of stable diffusion that we're working on.
Okay, so you're using stable diffusion.
So do you have like deform in there also or is it just like single images?
Can you repeat that?
I couldn't hear your question.
Is it like can you do the form as well like for gifts or videos or is it just single like singular images?
And can you do like control net where you could like change how like they like the way the, you know like the shape or structure, you know like position positioning, you know.
Do you have any control over that or is it just like kind of random?
For now, it's just images, but we plan on having that stable division output afterwards,
and then manipulate that with other different AI tools to be able to create variations of it,
and in that sense also manipulate the position of it.
But that's a second step that we're exploring.
I'm not the technical guy in our team, so I don't know the specifics of the technicalities,
but I know that this is the way that they're approaching it.
Joa?
Yep. My question is...
Yeah, I was wondering...
I was just going to ask, how did you decide on this specific market segmentation of working with big brands like Lamborghini?
Like, why is that the correct market segmentation for, you know, growing this to like a massive company?
That's not where we started.
We started with more three companies.
We did a collection with Cidify and others.
And then we saw the opportunity in those through different NFT intermediaries that we were working with.
And those NFT intermediars also lacked the expertise in creating 3D NFTs, in creating NFTs, in creating that art en masse.
And that's where we came in.
And that's also why in only when we, even we were a two, three monthful of company, those companies were willing to work with us because there was no one else in the market.
Yo, you said you're profitable.
By the way, anyone that wants to check out,
all the sponsors that are pitching,
it's pinned at the top and it's pinned on my profile,
so you can check it out there.
Question, you're profitable.
I didn't ask for the numbers.
You did?
Can you?
The number is here?
Yeah, revenue profit.
You said you're profitable, no?
Yeah, we had, last year in 2022,
we did about half a million in revenue,
and we have a staff of 20 people that were paying
that are working on these projects.
And you're incubated by CDFI as well?
Yes, we're incubated by CDFI.
And they're also a big help.
And we also did their own project because...
What are you doing?
So what are you doing with NF Trade?
Because we're invested in NF Trade.
What are you doing with them?
And Cookie 3 and...
Go ahead.
Yes, with Cookie 3, we're planning an integration with their analytics so that the output
that comes from our system can use the...
Okay, and NF Trade.
And with NFK, what we're exploring is this AI generation system.
So when you go on NFJ, when you click on Create, you would then be able to type in a prompt there and then get your collection directly.
This is something that's not there yet, but that's the thing that we're exploring with them.
And who's speaking to me? Is that Assad, Gorkan, or who?
It's a sad. I'm in charge of the financial legal sides.
Yeah, you're the CFO and the founder.
Good to have you here, bro.
All right, Chola.
Yeah, you're working with big brands, and I've seen a lot of big brands really mess up.
Like Porsche did a launch.
It really did not go well because I don't think it was...
I think it was a lot of people that believe NFTs are just art and nothing else.
And you're just focused on the art.
Are you doing anything to actually help these brands succeed, except do their art?
So there we have very strong intermediaries that we work with that we worked with for over a year now.
One of the examples is Niftables that we work with and they handle the minting, they handle the marketing,
they handle the strategy and they have a strong track record doing that.
So generally we work together with those intermediaries that we know have the track record, we know have the expertise.
So we do what we do best and we bring on the people that do the best at what they do, the marketing, the minting and those things.
And then we work together to make it happen.
So what's the capital for then?
Joe, just for a second.
So I don't believe that the art actually drives the success of projects.
So if you take that ingredient out of the recipe, what are you left with?
So the thing is, especially when it comes to 3D, the add value of 3D is the integration and the potential users of that 3D asset itself too.
Because when you have a 2D image and you want to do a partnership with a game, you want to do a partnership with...
a brand, you can't really use the image itself, you have to convert that into 3D.
But if you have the treaty to start with, it makes it a whole lot easier, especially for
larger brands that are very bureaucratic. You don't have to go through the whole approval
process for a new creation. They already have the 3D asset. They can go to a metaverse.
They can start with it. And also, the art itself also has a crucial point in building up the
story, building up the marketing. But of course, the 3D aspect helps with the partnerships and
integrations with.
different platforms which is also where one of the utilities of those projects generally lie in
Fiji final thoughts before we go to the next project which is a rallying an NFT rally project
any final thoughts quickly Fiji
I'm big on any projects that help facilitate things that are that are market relevant so I can appreciate that if there is a market for what you guys are trying to do then I can respect the fact that that you're doing it and bro they're fucking profitable how many how many crypto projects say they're profitable are you even profitable did you even want me to ask the question so my question is so I'll go back then uh
wherever the project is, is your profitability based off of an NFT project that you launched,
or some sort of token that you launched, or you're actually creating business?
Say that again?
They say they're profitable.
Is the profitability based on actual clients and business and revenue,
or is it based off of an NFT project or a crypto project?
That's where I find myself catching up with people saying, quote-unquote profitability.
Yeah, I think that's, and actually, if you can get that answer, because we just brought up the next pitch, but I'm actually curious on this question.
Is it a profit from revenue from clients, which I think it is from my understanding, or is it from NFT projects they launched?
I think it is from clients.
I'll get that confirmed.
I will go to K4 rally.
Next pitch.
I think that one's going to be more relatable to the audience.
I'm actually genuinely curious for the meme coin pitches, because I think it's going to be a real first, going to be pretty slim.
I expect you to be loud on that one.
But let's go to K4 rally.
Guys, how are you?
Lala, I'll let you start the timer.
Okay, guys, can you hear me?
Yeah, bro, go ahead.
Okay.
Hi, I'm Frank, founder of Gavuni Meta Labs.
We are blockchain games company.
I'm in the games industry.
It's more than 25 years and work many years
as marketing director of Atari.
I would like to introduce you a game,
which is really converting Web 2 audience
into Web 3 blockchain gaming.
The game is called K4 Rally,
and it's the first blockchain rally racing game ever.
Main USP is it's powered by real race drivers at real motorsport brands.
We as a company are running our own rally racing team in the real world.
We are driving the official FIA World Rally Championship.
When we drive races, like for example at Ralei Montecalo, we are driving in a full game branded race car,
which gives us a lot of exposure.
And this is authenticity, which is a key where we are onboarding so many rally fans right now.
Carfebruary is already live as a minimal viable product in a browser version.
For investors in our community, it means we prove already that we can develop a racing game.
More than 35,000 gamers already registered in the game,
and right now we are porting the game to Unreal Engine 5,
which will push the graphic and also allows us to focus on new gaming platforms,
especially game streaming.
We are in private token sale round, and the remaining investment volume is $2.5 million.
The game will go full life in fourth quarter this year.
Garman, you finished the pitch early.
By the way, are you based in Turkey?
Our company is based in Dubai, but I'm actually living in Germany.
I can't hear anybody.
Mario, I think you're meeting.
I'm talking to myself.
Yeah, sorry.
When you said you're supported by race drivers and the racing community, what do you mean by that?
Yeah.
Let's say part of our management team, we have a real rally champion in our management team who's also driving, who's the race driver of our rally team.
And what we are doing, because it is part of our marketing strategy, we are onboarding real rally champions.
We let them come into our game.
We make their race cars as NFTs and let them market their race cars to their community.
which is a perfect marketing tool.
Each rally driver has a, let's say, between 50,000 and 300,000 followers.
And when they are telling their community, hey, guys, I'm now joining K4 rally.
You can now get my NFT, my race car as an NFT.
This is really pushing registrations in NFT sales.
Fiji.
So I'm, okay, I'm trying to understand what the product actually is.
So I understand rally.
I understand F1.
I grew up with my family was huge into F1.
I'm trying to,
so what is the business proposition?
What is the product?
What is the goal?
Who is the audience?
Why are you doing what you're doing?
No, it is the first blockchain rally racing game ever.
So nobody did so far a rally blockchain racing.
I've seen rally, okay, but how does it,
so I've seen rally games that are blockchain based.
And for anyone not in the crypto space,
the value of them making them blockchain base,
and correct me if I'm wrong,
by the way, I've just forgot to do it.
So I'm doing polls.
What we're gonna do, I've just decided it now.
I'm gonna do polls for the audience to vote.
So I've done the first one now, I'll pin it at the top.
the project that gets the most votes as a yes
we will write a check for as well as iBC
so any project that gets the most yes votes will write a check for
um i'll just do the poll now and please don't fuck me over or just don't troll me
and choose the worst project put it as yes so i've just tweeted the first poll you chose the wrong
space to say don't troll you
Yeah, right.
Anyway, I'm happy, I'm happy to write a check for any of the projects pitching anyway.
So I think as many of them we're working for and I wouldn't accept, because we get paid in tokens.
So if we don't like the project, we wouldn't get paid.
We wouldn't accept for the pitch.
And our tokens are locked so we cannot sell for at least six, 12 months in most cases.
So for the, for the startup project.
So I've done the first one.
I've pinned it at the top.
the AR toner, which I'm happy to write a check for anyway,
and I think we already have a stake in the project.
I'm a fan of them.
Put a yes or no for the audience.
Let me know if I should pitch it.
And put a comment as well, why we should put yes or no.
We are choosing winners, we're giving away money
as we used in the old days for the best comments.
K4 Rally, the purpose and just to explain it
for the basic audience and add anything I missed
before we go to Trevor Ninja.
For the purpose of having a blockchain-based game, and this is something I'm very passionate about,
and for the audience that's not under crypto space, it's interesting.
When you play a game, you don't own, let's say you're playing a game with guns and spaceships.
You don't own those assets.
They're not yours.
Those assets belong to the game itself.
The game goes bankrupt, they're gone, okay?
And you can't move them from game to game.
The value of having blockchain-based games, the fundamental value, is that you own those assets.
You own that spaceship.
You can sell it.
You can keep it.
And eventually, when those games become interoperable,
imagine you have a spaceship in one game
and you take that spaceship to another game.
The same way in the physical world,
you can take your car and ship it to another country by boat,
or you can take your iPhone with you when you go on a plane.
You can move your assets from country to country.
Imagine being able to move assets from game to game
because you actually own them, the same way you own a phone in your pocket.
That's what NFTs mean. That's the value of NFTs, it's not just pictures.
So that's why I'm a big fan of Web3 games.
Now, a question for K4.
What do you actually own?
Like, why is it blockchain basis?
Is it a concept of ownership?
Do you own the cars that you rally to win?
And is it also connected to the real world in any way?
Because there's some sports games that are launching.
We've had some of them on the show last year.
They launched on blockchain because they link to the real world
where if a rally driver or a car brand or whatever performs well in the physical world,
the value goes up in the digital game as well on the blockchain world as well.
Is that how you...
What's the purpose of having yours is blockchain base in Web 3 before we go to Ninja and Trevor?
You're muted K4.
You've got to unmute bottom move on the man.
Can you hear me?
Can you hear me now?
Yes, man.
Okay.
The most important reason is...
Just like you say, it is the ownership on the on the NFT race race cars and and when you spend time and money to level them them up this time and money or your investment is not gone.
The value of your of your race car is increasing.
and you can trade it on the secondary market.
And if you are really leveling up a very good race car, you can really earn money.
So second second thing is like in the real world, if you are a good race driver, you can really earn money in the game.
Just by rewards and and and um or player versus player um funny
slim man slim man's got a question for you let's see slam man okay before you ask
the question to phygis i'm going to mute you k4 because you're mute you've got a lot of feedback sounds
so mute yourself when you're not speaking okay the the project earlier the air toner
fiji i'm fucking impressed by a i turner their revenue profit is all coming from the operations of the
company and they've never launched their own nfts collection bro
That's fucking legit.
I'm impressed.
So that's for AR Turner.
But yeah, K4.
Slamaz got a question in advance.
Sorry, it's a shitty question.
That's his first question.
You understand the approach of the question, though, right?
I think that's fundamental in terms of approach.
It is.
How many blockchains are there at this precise moment
and how many are you envisioning to happen?
they'll be in one year to five years
so they built yeah
I love you slammyana they're built on one blockchain
they wouldn't launch more blockchain
no no how many games are on that blockchain is my question
so k4 ral is one game isn't it it's not it's not a multitude of games so how many games are
how many are you guys say k4 are you launching yeah are you launching more games i think that's
the question he means yes sure we have already the next games in development yeah no no no k4 i
bet that you've got other games in development in total in the entire community there's thousands
of games there's thousands of games there's thousands of games there's thousands of games already yeah
That's why it is so...
So I'll ask some...
No, no, no.
Are they idol games?
Let me enjoy this.
Let me enjoy this.
Let me enjoy this.
Go ahead.
Okay, go ahead.
Finish off.
This is going to be terrible.
No, no, that's fine.
You send these thousands of games.
That's fine.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, okay, cool.
Okay, I thought, I was expecting you then, I was expecting you to ask next.
Okay, then why would pay four succeed?
Why should any game succeed when there's so many?
Then my ass will be like, yeah, there's so many startups as well.
But obviously didn't go down that path.
Save yourself from people.
Can I ask the honest questions?
Slime in, please. Just one second. K4. Is it an idle game or is it or is an interactive game?
It's an interactive game. You really need to drive. So your driving skill is your key to success.
How much money did you guys put into the development of the game? How long did it take?
And is it built off of a different or similar SDK that we can compare it to?
Yes, it is.
Let's say we start with Unity Engine on browser, but now we are moving to Unreal Engine to increase the graphic quality.
And also Unreal Engine gives us further possibilities to launch on other platforms, especially game streaming, which will become popular in the...
in the future game streaming means you are like a Netflix movie you are streaming.
Very well aware. So it's a play to earn mechanics? Yes, it's play to own mechanics.
Okay, so what are the tokenomics? Um, you mean how many, how many token we are, we are issuing or
Before you answer that one, Fiji, Fiji, before I ask you that one, because I know you're getting technical.
I want to do a bet.
It's going to be a good one.
Fiji, are you open to write a check for the project that gets the most votes is yes or no?
Are you open to write a check with us?
Yes.
Fiji is writing is check.
It doesn't have to be.
It doesn't matter the size.
K, for let me mute you.
Lala, are you also open to joining writing a check for the project gets the most yes votes?
Yes.
Maybe. I don't know. I'm still a little salty about being made the bad guy here with the alarm and stop watch.
Any other, anyone else? Sorry, let me go. Trevor, are you willing to write a check for the project against the most yes?
If they're doing Bitcoin Ordinals, I would definitely consider it for sure.
Damn it. I don't think we have Bitcoin Ordinals today.
Dubsy, who else is open to write a check for the project against the most yeses?
Shit, no one, none of the speakers want to put the money into the project.
Do a lot of shit. Do a normal show and I'll do it.
Yeah, we are. The next one is gonna the next one's gonna be ordinals for sure.
We haven't heard a good project yet. We have to get a project that's worth investing in, Mario.
Ah, let's ask, ask, Ninja, ask, yeah, good question.
I'll ask it at the end, actually.
Ninja, I'll give you the mic then.
Yeah, so, okay, so I have a question for you, K-For.
So you said you've been doing this for 20 years.
What other successes or what other games can you point to?
So, for instance, we know Gabriel Layden is another Web3 developer in this space.
He has a track record of producing quality, uh,
successful multi-billion dollar web two games what have you created an incredible
Super Bowl commercials and that thank you Fidgill what have you so just two questions
what have you created with over 20 years what have you created that has been
mega successful or at least successful like what can we look to what app store what
can we look to that you've already created
No, I mean I was working as marketing director for Atari, which means I did not develop the game.
I marketed them, yeah.
And in my time at Atari, I marketed more than 1,000 games.
Yeah, big brands like Unreal, Unreal Tournament, Civilization from Sid Meier.
Also a lot of racing games Jeff Grumgroom grow pre
V rally things like this okay, how many how many users do you have K4 how many users do you have quick question
35,000 registered already holy shit you have 35,000 how do you how do you verify its actual user?
Yeah, I mean, we are verifying them.
They need to connect on our Discord.
So we have a Discord connect.
And whenever it comes to tournament, we are double-checking, let's say, a lot of things.
Their wallets, their Discord connect, that they have a unique Discord profile as well,
connected to the game profile and things like this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is a very, let's say, it is a basic way to prevent multi-account using, but it works very well.
And for the top 10, you need to raise around about 100, 200 times, because we have the extremely good racers in the top 10.
Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Next question. Tubsy. Mike is yours.
Yeah, I just wanted to ask K4.
You said that you were going to be porting from browser to Unreal Engine.
How long is that going to take?
When is that?
Is there a release date for when that's going to happen?
Yes, of course, in Q4 of this year.
So we are fully focusing at the moment on Unreal Engine.
Reason where we start with Unity was because in early 2021,
a lot of people told us that...
blockchain games needs necessarily to be on browser, but that's definitely not true.
It can be client games, it can be mobile games, it can be also game streaming.
And that's why we are moving the engine right now.
All right.
The final question, we'll go to Ninja or Fiji.
Anodadavzi, if you ask your question, my internet cut out for a second.
Ninja, you want to take the last question?
Yeah, so my last question, hold on one second.
I got to fix my...
Your mic is fucking shit, bro.
Your mic, I don't see anything.
So, Ninja, I'll front run the question.
Okay, I got it back.
Really quick.
Okay, four.
Just one second, Ninja.
Just one second.
How much of your infrastructure or your game is actually Web 3 now?
I'm going to presume it's just wallets.
And what's your goal in terms of becoming Web 3?
Yes, it's wallets, it's NFT.
It is our K4 Raleigh token, which is the, let's say, the heart of our game ecosystem.
So it's really a full blockchain racing game.
Ninja, go ahead.
So you have 35,000 registered users.
But the game is not ready yet.
No, it is still in development, but we put the minimal viable product already online.
Because we want to show our community and our investors, these guys can really do a game.
Because what you see in last year is that a lot of GameFi projects raise a lot of money just with nice pictures.
And after they raise money, they're...
they start developing the game.
And they cannot even fulfill what they predict.
It is, that's why a lot of game...
game projects did not work out in the end.
They raised money with nice...
We can go...
K4, like, I've been involved in PDE games
from Idol to tangential
for, I think, about four years now.
So...
I appreciate it. I'm interested in seeing where you guys go. I presume there's some sort of launch that's coming, that there's some sort of NFT or acceptance portion that's occurring, I presume. Am I mistaken?
No, you can already test the game. It is already live as a minimum viable product.
And you can also already buy the first NFTs.
And we also have first tournaments running.
How many users do you have per day?
How many people are playing the game per day that you're retaining?
You mean active 600, 700 per day.
Which is actually not bad.
For Web 3, it's not bad.
Just so you know, guys, final question, Ninja.
But for Web 3, it's not actually bad.
Yeah, I want to go to the last of the hands.
50 and Trevor real quick.
And then let's wrap this presentation up.
Interested.
But I think, Fiji, Fiji.
What do you think will happen with the meme coin pitches
in a bit?
Oh, I'm interested.
All right.
Are you being serious?
Are you actually interested?
I'm interested in how they're going to present value proposition, yes.
That's actually a good point.
All right.
Last two questions, we'll go quickly.
Phiddy and Trevor.
Yes, so I want to ask you, I've been involved with a couple games on a part of teams,
and it just didn't work out.
I stepped off.
How is your NFT and your token getting me different than all of the games?
Like, what value will this bring to NFT holders or token holders that other games weren't able to do so?
Let's say the most important thing is that we are onboarding the real rally fans.
This is our main target audience.
This means they are playing with a much higher motivation than pure play to earn game on.
When they are buying a race car NFT, they are really put motivation behind it to level it up and to bring it to a higher value in the game.
Yeah.
And...
This is the main reason why our game really works the passion of our gamers because they are really fans.
All right. We're going to go to the next one.
And Trevor, you'll have the mic for the next one.
You'll be first to speak.
Thanks for the pitch, bro.
I'll put it in the poll above and then you could share it with the community.
Let's go to the next one.
I appreciate it, man.
I'm a fan, by the way.
I like it.
Fiji, what do you think?
I like it.
I'm gonna next next no be honest no be honest no uh okay so uh I am not a fan of any
project that raises money to then build what they say they're going to be building
At the core. That's what happened in 2016.
What did you just fucking say?
This is every startup, man.
No, it's not every startup.
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, and, and Kickstarter that acknowledges that your money is lost at the gate.
They're acknowledging taking your wrist doesn't mean your money's lost.
It literally says don't expect anything.
So the core...
Don't expect any...
Bro, some of the sub projects raise millions
and built a whole brand out of Kickstarter.
Do you want my opinion or not?
Do you want my opinion or not?
Yeah, I'm debating your opinion because that's just an...
Okay.
I'm not your opinion.
Like, every business that raises...
Hold on.
Didn't you fucking raise money to build your startup?
Yeah.
How excited were you when you just heard the other pitch say that they had profits?
That is the core of the statement.
Okay. Did you have profit when you raise your first dollar?
You, would you have a good startup?
Okay.
No, we did not.
My last one, though?
Yes, we were a $4 million net without a token.
actually providing a product.
And we were asked constantly, when token.
So this was like the last five years.
We would speak to VCs and they'd say,
when token, when token, when token.
And we took the route of saying,
we're not going to launch a token
because we know we have a viable business business.
There's no insult to anybody.
Bro, but that was, I just so disagree.
I didn't expect you to say that.
But we'll go to the next pitch.
Let's go to Alpha.
Alpha, you're the second last pitch before we get into the two meme coins.
You've got you in Open Game Builders, which I'm interested for Open Games builders
because this guy's had a hell of a story.
But Alpha, we've never met.
Would love you to pitch.
Lala, the time is ready?
Yep, timer's ready.
Alpha, all yours, man.
Okay.
Yes, hi, how you doing? Thank you so much for how you knows.
My name is Stan.
By the way, let me pause, let me pause Alpha.
I love Alpha Pro.
Hey, there you go.
How are you, Fiji?
How's that you do?
How much, hold on, Alpha, Alpha, how much do you pay Fiji?
He's never said this about any project ever.
Alpha, Fiji view yourself.
Fiji, Vueg, Fiji, Vueg, Alpha, how much did you pay Fiji?
No, we didn't, actually.
It was a...
Promise, hold on, you give me your word, promise.
It was a collaboration, right, Fiji?
Ah, there we go. What's the collaboration include?
No, I mean, we actually had a space before and we met in New York for the NYC NFT week.
So...
Ah, cool. How was this... and what happened in New York?
So actually, New York, we had an event together with...
Does Alpha, Alpha, does Fiji have any tokens in Alpha or NFTs?
Not at the moment.
Yes, no, no, you send me one. I have one. I have one. Yes.
This gets deeper and deeper.
The scam goes, I'm joking, I'm joking.
Go ahead.
All right.
Let's get you got 90 seconds.
Actually, Alpa hit me up and said, give me your ethel wallet.
I said, why?
He said, I want to send you something.
And then he sent me an NF2.
Sounds like bribery to me.
Just saying, sounds like bribery to me.
Alpha, did I ever ask you for any money or anything ever?
No, not at all.
Let's go.
The mic is yours, bro.
Go ahead, bro.
Thank you.
Appreciate it, Mario.
So, for, you know, some people that have in here, what we have going on, we are already an existing Web2 business.
We rent and we customize exotic cars.
We have a physical location here in Miami where we specialize on cars.
And right now we're working on membership club.
It's an exclusive Lifetime membership club.
It's a Lifetime membership where people get access to all the different services that we provide,
including the cars at a discounted rate.
And also, we have built incredible partnerships so far in our journey in Web3.
So people also get, you know, different benefits with the different partnerships that we're doing.
For example, we have a partnership with Nobu Hospitality.
So our holders, they get access to the Beach Club and the Pool Club for free.
They get free upgrades in the rooms.
They're able to actually rent their car.
As soon as they're booking the room, they're also able to rent the car from us as well.
So we are a considered service.
You know, we also offer private planes that are discounted rate, private security, bulletproof cars.
We also have partnership.
Yes, yes.
We also have partnership with two different nightclubs here in Miami and one in Aspen where our members get access to the club.
You know, BIP entrance, they skip the line, no cover, no anything.
Kind of like that treatment that you know the people at the club.
And, you know, we also are doing some super nice events like, you know, what we're talking right now.
We went together.
I see Crad this year in the space from the Kid Cold Bees.
Shout out to Akit Kovies and Rasby as well.
We did an event together with them in New York.
I'm going to drop the bone here, but I'm pretty sure that everyone is here know that it was the best event and party of New York City NFT Week.
So it's also we did another one in Miami for Miami Music Week.
So you know we're working on this different events with different
current into to people.
Alpha, your time is up.
Oh my bad.
Alpha this is fucking cool.
So hold on if I buy your NFT I'll be able to access your bulletproof cars, your security,
your private jets and all that.
Correct, correct.
And at a discount really good time.
Why can I, why do I need, why does it need to be,
I ask the first question I've got to Trevor.
Why does it need to be an NFT?
Why can't you just sell a membership?
I'm using the technology, you know. I'm using the blockchain. I'm using the technology. I'm using the NFT to host the membership. So it is, I mean, it's not art where we're selling. We're using and leveraging the technology. That's why we're doing as an NFT. So for example, what you ask about the planes and the cars, for the cars, people get at 35% discount. So to give you an example, a Lamborghini euros.
A rental is $1,300.
So make the math, you know, with 35% you're paying around $780, $800, $800.
And, you know, there is a recurrent.
So we are already doing this business.
So this is what we do on a daily basis.
So we know that it's a pretty big market.
It's actually a $30 billion market per year.
Dexotic a rent.
I see.
So, Alpha, Trevor, let me go to you.
Why isn't it?
When you have a lot of projects launching membership through NFTs,
Why NFTs?
Just because you could just trade it on a market?
Correct.
What do you think I'll for?
Correct.
Trevor, sorry.
Okay, go for it.
Yeah, actually, my question was about the security service because I have a friend,
a good friend of mine.
He kind of broke Bitcoin.
Like, he kind of let, he did something that the fees went up a lot.
And then, you know, people in El Salvador can't spend their Bitcoin and they, like,
babies are dying because of him.
And, you know, he's going to the Bitcoin Miami conference and, you know,
You know, there's been threats against him.
And like, can't like if I buy your NFT now, could we get him some security to roll into Bitcoin Miami with him?
And could we get these security guys to wear wizard costumes?
I don't know about the wizard custom, but for sure we can get the security.
And they're actually trained. It's trained security, so it's not just random guys.
We partner with one of the best private security companies in the US, which is Shadow Group.
So they're going to be providing their security services for us.
All their guys are trained and yeah, we can definitely make it happen.
Has your NFT launch? Not yet, man.
Not yet, not yet.
At this moment, we're working a lot on the...
I like what Fiji was saying about actually building a product.
So we are working right now on building a whole product on the back end.
So that way when people mint with us, right away they have access to all the technology,
at all the dashboard where they can go, rent the cars.
And not even rent the cars, they can also sell this discount,
meaning that we...
giving the option to people to actually do it as well as a business.
So that discount that we're giving, that 35%,
which is if you see, it's a wholesale discount, that markup,
we are letting them if, you know, they go ahead and rent the car
or even if they put up a website and, you know,
they start running ads with this,
they pretty much have access to a whole fleet of exotic cars
where they can rent it and make money with it.
Fidji, I'm gonna give you the mic and Dubsey has a question.
I'm gonna say stop messaging for me to
Yeah, take over.
And then you're talking the whole time.
No, bro, just Twitter.
Just mention the polls for the audience.
So the polls I'm pinning it above.
Art, the AR toner has got the most votes so far.
Followed by K4 Rally.
Really?
Yeah, because they were first, so they get a bit of credit.
So let people vote slowly.
Wait, so how long does this poll last for?
because i think it's important one day bro one day one day it's kind of they've also gonna probably
come in over the next few hours especially with people listening to replays and shit and we'll
okay um what i like about so when alpha first came on the show i'll just be frank you well i won't be
frank that's yeah i'm not going to go there uh your pitch was terrible uh the second time you came on
you had refined your pitch
Alpha, am I mistaken?
You are totally right, yes.
Did he pitch on the Roundtable account Fiji?
Is that where you're doing?
Yes.
Did anyone write a check?
Did anyone write a check?
Alpha, didn't you get a couple interested investors or partners or?
Correct.
Yeah, we're actually discussing at the moment.
Yeah.
So, yes, we are discussing.
It's an ongoing relationship, correct.
So yes, Mario, the core idea of the pitch for the space is that people actually hop on board and support.
And I believe they were one of the first ones that had a terrible pitch.
Utility is pretty straightforward.
I think the average Joe would understand it.
Hey, I buy this NFC.
I get access to security, private jets, and the good life.
So it's like such an easy pitch.
obviously there's a lot more to it
you've got to dig into it
but for me sounds pretty cool
Dobsy do you have
and I've taken over again for G
Why are you doing
Just let me
Before we go to Dubbs
Just one second
I don't know man
I just I just feel a lot of
Money paid under the
Okay
Paid money on the table
I don't know what's going
I'm joking how should go
You motherfucker
You motherfucker
You motherfucker.
Okay.
I'm going to leave that there.
And I have so many questions, but you guys just talk so fast.
So I've been able to talk like twice.
We have a corrupt judge panel.
That's my concern.
Okay.
No, let me actually get to the court.
For real.
The idea is, and this goes back to where we're talking about the last,
what are the last projects is, are you funding your business with a,
with a rake, with a shill on a community?
Or do you have a business and is there value in using Web3?
And I do believe the ability to transfer memberships,
to create value propositions in terms of what it means for you at the time.
I'm traveling, let's say I'm traveling for the next nine months.
And I want, I don't want to own homes in certain places.
I don't want to buy cars in certain places.
I don't want to have to...
go to the same bar or club 10 times to finally get respected, right?
There is value in having that, that decentralized sovereignty as to how you enjoy your life
that I think is core to what Web 3 is.
Dobsie, go ahead.
Last question, Dobsy.
And we'll go to the final pitch before the two meme coins, the first ever meme coins on the show.
Go ahead, Dobsie.
Yeah, well, first, I didn't realize we're taking bribes, so that's always good to know.
But the question for Alpha is, are you guys based just in America right now?
Wait, Dobsy, is it a bribe if it's after the fact?
Dobsy, it's not a bribe.
It's a exchange of value.
Oh, classic exchanging value.
Doobsy.
dot F if we're exchanging value, guys.
Yeah, so basically you're in America now.
Are you going to be based on,
are you already based in other countries already?
Or are you going to be based on other countries?
Yeah.
What's the plan globally?
Correct.
So yeah, right now we're in in America, so it will be New York, L.A., and Miami.
But we also have access to cars in Dubai.
And definitely we're working actually nonstop.
So far this last two weeks on getting more partnerships outside of the U.S.
So we want to make it more global, so it's more convenient for our members.
So like Fidjit said, you know, if he's traveling, whatever he's traveling,
you know, he has access to cars or he have access to, you know, the flights or secure, et cetera, you know, worldwide.
Not worldwide, but the main cities, you know, the main cities of, because, you know, probably, you know,
random countries where maybe we won't go there, but the main countries and main cities, we're definitely going there.
Let me, let me just, before we go to the next, I just want to, Dubsy.
Dobsy, can you define Tall Poppy syndrome to the rest of the audience?
How's that?
Yep, neither.
Dubsy's an Ozzie like me, man.
We don't talk bullshit like this.
You don't know tall poppy syndrome?
No, bro.
We keep things basic and simple in Australia, man.
Don't talk your shit.
You literally had to cut down the alcohol distribution because people were cutting off buns and killing people by knocking them in the back of the head.
Topp, because when people are attacked, relentlessly dislike, criticize or cut down because their achievement and all success.
Interesting.
Cool.
I don't know how that's relevant.
But guys, I think it's a good pitch.
I appreciate you.
The third project, which is the second last one.
We've got one more before we go to the two meme coins, the first ever on the show, is...
pinned above now.
So the poll is there as well.
And that's not K4 Raleigh,
that's Alpha Pro Club.
So we got three pictures of our AR toner,
K4 Raleigh, Alpha Pro Club.
We got one more.
OG, O Games Builders.
You're there?
Yeah, you are.
What's up, man?
Hello, am I audible?
I just wanted to check that before I go like.
All right, great.
Before you start, you've been on the show before,
or am I confusing it with someone else?
You're building the museum?
Yeah.
Yeah, we are building the museum. We are the same team, but you're not speaking to Morrow,
you're speaking to Anish. I know, Morrow. You're, bro, now you have a CMO. Holy shit.
I remember Morrow when he was just hustling like crazy, asking the most basic question.
Go to events, talking to V.C., he's like, Marie, this V.C. said to me,
to send him money and he'll send me more money, is that okay? I'm like, bro, no. No V.C.
will ask you to send him money. So I'm glad you've gone that far, man. I've always had respect for you guys and
He is a hustler. He's incredible, man. He's incredible. Such a nice guy, such a genuine guy.
Absolutely. Go ahead. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Anish. I hope the timer is starting right now.
Yes, you're good to go.
My name is Anish. I work for the company as the chief marketing officer. I am an ex-Fortune 500 company person and at the same marketing officer and at the same time have
been working in a company who's got listed out in the LSE for doing a revenue of almost 30 billion plus,
a total volume of 30 billion plus from a money remittance business.
And I came and joined my good man, Mauro, because the guy is a pain in the neck and he's not easy to go.
So this presentation is, you don't have much time.
Let's get to the business.
Yeah, the business is very simple.
We guys got a foundation, which is run by a gentleman called Dr. Jonathan and got dressed his dad's soul, Dr. Havier,
where we have real-life fossils and we are making NFTs out of it.
So when a guy plays a game...
Number one, he gets real-life fossils.
So you can talk about a megalon's tooth or a dinosaur's tail or anything of that sort.
And I'm sure, you know, the claws that you see...
in Jurassic Park to you name it all.
The entire project is based in, is a game designed for Mobar,
but at the same time, we have a Metaverse flavor of the game.
So we mix both the ecosystems.
It's built out on Unreal Engine.
And last but not least, the tokenomics of it is a deflationary model.
We have very certain flaws that's mentioned in our...
tokenomics that none of our senior executive members and people drawing a salary over $3,000 per month
would not be taking a dollar or a dime in case of a crypto winter or BTC goes below $25,000.
Why? Because we want to bring in credibility.
And his time is up.
Oh, that was ruthless.
Jesus.
Lala, Lala, it's not supposed to be an end.
So it's supposed to be a, it's supposed to be this.
It's supposed to be one second.
I got shot.
I got shot.
I got to make my like one second that I can speak really count.
Guys, I'm going to make it count here.
I hear you.
I have no complaints, but I got shot.
Point blank.
Carry on, dude.
Carry on.
One.
So not a single senior executive drawing a paycheck over $3,000 would take a penny of paycheck any single month the moment BTC goes below $25,000 or a crypto winter comes in.
Why?
Because we believe in the game existing and not about our paycheck.
Because that's the sort of passion we are bringing into this.
I'm open for you.
I have so many questions.
I have so many questions.
Like, why, why, why, why, why, why, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to,
Why did you say, anybody who's not getting more than $3,000 a month,
first of all, who's getting more than $3,000 a month,
and how many tokens of people who are not getting $1,000 a month
are getting like a million questions?
Okay, see, the fact is we wanted to prove out point of 01.
Our project is very genuine, why?
Because we got enough commodity, which is fossils.
We got real-life fossils with us.
And that's a shit lot of money out over there.
Number two, why are we relating it to BTC?
Because by now, in this entire crypto world, what I've seen is whenever BTC comes down, the entire ecosystem comes down.
We have not seen any sort of flip happening yet.
So till then, the story remains the same.
And that's the basis on which we are.
Oh, gee, I have other questions.
Why are we talking about fossils?
We're talking about fossils because that's the only commodity at this particular point in time we have as an organization.
And we have signed up with that foundation, which is run by Dr. Jonathan.
Do you have options for these fossils or you guys are already in full custody ownership and control of the fossils?
We are full custody ownership of the fossils.
300 square meters, you can visit our place and you can see it for yourself.
Okay, why did you buy fossils in the first place?
Because that's part of, that's the life this gentleman, Dr. Havier, has been living in.
That's the same life that Dr. Jonathan has been living.
And in fact, he's live over here.
They are, they have been doing that.
Why do people collect stamps?
Why do people collect cars?
That's something which is part of their life.
They have been doing that all their life.
We're on the same page.
So walk me through this.
My guess, and I could be wrong, but I'm going to guess I'm not wrong.
My guess is that somebody had a collection of fossils that wanted to tokenize them.
You guys in some way connected and then figured that adding a game component in terms of a play to earn or some sort of relationship would allow for an asset-backed token to a degree with that's a whole other conversation to allow for an ecosystem to survive. Is that correct?
You can say partially, I'm not going to lie out over here because for me the most important thing is integrity and not giving false information.
So yes, there is a percentage of that absolutely there.
But at the same time, what is more important is that these are professional gamers.
And I'm sure you might want to possibly do a couple of Google on these terminologies.
One is called a heatstone pinny and the other name is called
In ecosystems like Blizzard, BattleNet, another gentleman is called the Heatstone Cabricks.
These are professional players and they have played in much.
They are the people who are building the game.
I'm a guy who just walked into this ecosystem almost one and a half years back.
Just like what my good man out over here was saying with the whole conversation, Mario was saying in the start.
we didn't know anything. They didn't know how to do this whole thing. And I've seen gaming
companies and Web3 game fail right in front of me, being part of it, doing advisory, and I've
seen the whole thing. And I said, this is another scam. I'm not going to get into. And then I was
convinced that, hey, listen, there is something real. These are fossils. These are
stuff that exists.
Okay, so then,
okay, my last question,
by the way, guys,
please,
I can't ask every question.
So if you're on the panel,
you're here to ask questions,
please raise your hand.
You do one question,
one question after Fiji.
My last question,
my last question is,
why?
What is the large,
what's the end goal of the project?
What are you trying to accomplish?
See,
Definitely, it's not just a rich and famous.
It's all about, we have three ecosystems built around this game.
One is Web3 education from a gaming perspective.
Number one.
Number two, from gaming as an industry to the best of power knowledge
is much bigger than movie music and Olympics put together.
That's a freaking biggest industry.
Number three, if you see the latest report that came two days back
If I'm not wrong, it's around close to $1.25 trillion by 2035 from Southeast Asia alone in
Metaverse and Gaming as an arena. So there is a huge community that's way, including me.
I'm a, I don't know whether you guys know how old am I. I'm a 40 year old guy who has come into
gaming back. Why? Because that's what I have done. I started my life playing Prince of Persia
and all these sort of retro games. And from there I came into this.
The gamer has not died in me.
And there are millions and millions of such people around.
We want to reach out to them.
We want to build a whole community around it.
And that's a very ambitious goal.
I actually looked at your site.
I actually looked at your site and it seems like you're not just doing fossils.
You're talking about collector car, collection cars and things of that nature.
So it seems like you have assets that you're tokenizing.
Exactly.
And then you're gamifying somehow.
So the secret sauce is how are you gamifying it?
Are you offloading the assets or are you keeping them?
Like let's get down to like where is the magic salt?
Joe, that's the last question.
That's the last question because Donish is coming up for the meme coin showdown.
So it's going to be fun.
Ogee, that's the last question.
Yeah, see, I don't want to give you a false information out over here.
I think I would take this question offline because I'm not prepared, but we would be offloading to the best of my knowledge.
So I'm not giving you a 100% assurance that we're going to offload it completely.
But yeah, we are giving it away literally.
We are giving it away literally to all our gamers who are playing it.
We have only a percentage of our thing we are giving it away.
And more than that's,
that's why I like the structure
of how we've been approaching the
the shark thing stuff is
you got grilled
and you just acknowledge
that you don't necessarily have answers
to some of the questions.
But getting their questions, then regrouping back, I think, and then pitching again is part of the value of the space.
Yeah, we're going to, we should do.
Let's see how these, if these two meme coin pitches go well, we should do like a shit tank, like shark tank, but for shit coins.
That should be so fun.
That's actually one of the best ideas you've ever said.
It'll just be
Danish versus meme coins
That should be so fucking fun
Let's see how it goes
So that's
Open Games builders
We should
Danish and Sleeman
Co-hosting
Because that'll just be fantastic
That'll be so fun
All right
Let's give it a shot
All right
Where are you
Capi Barra
I have no idea
I was gonna go man
You took
You took
you took the bullet, you're like, hey, I'm going to jump and pitch on this show.
It might go really well.
It might go horribly wrong.
Again, I'm happy to write a check.
As I said, I'll put a check into meme coins if I'm convinced about the values.
Happy.
Mario, one thing you don't know about Cappy, though, he is dedicated as hell.
This man was doing like sleepovers in spaces.
What, Cappy, when I jumped in your space, what were you guys at?
Like hour 38?
Lala, you've been bribed as well, have you?
We've been running a space since the day, maybe even like a couple hours after we launched.
We've been in there nearly the whole time.
But yeah, if you want to take it all from here.
So basically, I guess this is the first shit tank episode, and I think we're going to win it.
Because I want to approach this from like a meta commentary kind of standpoint.
Instead of just, you know, shilling our coin, okay, we're Capycoin.
That's it.
So, you know, to answer what you were saying about, you know, convincing you on any of this meme coin stuff, I think first of all, we're novelty.
Like, there is no utility.
There is no intrinsic value.
It doesn't do anything.
It's not useful.
There's a reason they're called shit coins.
Okay.
So it's important to not conflate us with, you know, the other five things that just came before us or even what comes after.
Because at the end of the day, if anybody attributes, you know, some kind of IP or some kind of hobby or niche to crypto and you can't clearly define why you're doing that.
then it's just a carrot on a stick, right?
That hobby or that niche or whatever it is attracts people who like that,
and then the crypto extracts their money.
So to be very clear, we're novelty, there's no intrinsic value,
we're not ever going to be profitable.
If there is a single use case for our coin, it's simply that the closest thing to meme coins, and this is what Soleiman was having trouble comprehending when Polly was talking about community, is that your market cap is effectively like your brand equity in a sense, right, if you're a meme coin.
So my background is branding.
So that's the one argument I would make in favor of meme coins and in what we're doing.
So the reason that we started was very simple.
All of this meme coin shit is going on.
We felt like the bar could be raised.
And we came out of a community that already existed.
The Remilia ecosystem, the Malady NFTs.
I came up on my personal account earlier and somebody, I think had something...
Your time's up, Cappy.
What's that?
Now you're gonna get grilled.
No, I like this guy.
I like this guy.
I like that.
I can, Danish, Danish, Danish.
Guys, pause.
The 90 seconds is not the end.
It's an identification of saying,
this is where it should end.
But let him finish, please.
All right, I'll try to be quick because I appreciate that.
You've bribed everybody, haven't you, man?
No, I'm not.
Here's the thing.
I don't even know what this guy is.
Yeah, exactly.
And the reason I came up here is because, you know,
I know that no other coin's going to do this because
Because I and that's not true. I'm not gonna say we're the only ones
But 99% of the shit in this space is going to play off of the hype of this space to extract value from you
And the only reason that can justify our existence because you know it's like I get it why crypto is this is already going on
I simply identified an opportunity to do something that other people are going to do anyways in a way that's better and it's more honest and
And that can be backed by a community I was already a part of that's already crypto-native.
It's an NFT community.
It's the Malady Project.
Also controversial, but also just art and pretty honest about it.
And all of a sudden now you realize that they're kind of an F2 recession proof because people actually like it.
There is no value to realize...
You know, like there's no fake value that people are going to wake up one day and be like, wait, this is bullshit.
People just like it so I don't want to sell it so the value goes up.
So if you're trying to make up value that doesn't exist, you're actually losing it.
Kephy, were you the beladies that I yelled at earlier?
That was me.
And I get it.
I get that.
So, let's go.
Guys, guys, guys.
So Fiji, come on, bro.
90 seconds and he'll give him another 30 seconds.
It's not a negative thing.
I was trying to explain to the other day.
No, no, no, not you're jumping in.
We have 90 second pitches.
You give him another 30 seconds.
Look, all projects, enough, you're not allowed to bribe judges anymore.
This is now illegal, not allowed on the show anymore.
Danish, I'm going to ask you this.
I don't think you'll be convinced.
If they convince you of the value,
one promise, which I know they won't,
you write a check with me.
I'll write a check with me.
I'll write a check with me.
That's fine.
If they can convince.
All right, cool.
If you're convinced of the value.
Cappy, you have one of the Wall Street,
the host of the Wall Street show,
agreed to write a check,
but I'm 90% sure he's not going to be convinced of the value.
I actually like that.
I'm not going to lie.
He was actually honest,
but there's no intrinsic value that it's all kind of made up.
I kind of like that.
I like that you're being actually intellectually honest.
I still won't invest in a shit coin.
It makes no sense to me.
Because there's no actual value to me.
You won't invest in Bitcoin.
Like, what the fuck?
Hold on.
It's Fiji.
Fiji, can we?
Fiji, whenever you're ready to have an adult conversation,
I'm happy to take the bib out of your mouth.
But I was going to say that ultimately, you know,
it's my dog in my mouth.
That's fine.
All right.
You know, the point that I'm trying to make is it's getting, you know,
Fidgill, every time someone has a conversation that you disagree with,
doesn't mean that we don't know anything.
I've heard you guys talk.
The problem here is that there's no intrinsic value,
and there's been a ton of people lying.
At least Cappy is being intellectually honest.
That's what we need.
We need more of that for people to actually believe
that there's any value to this entire community instead of everybody just wasting time.
I love that Cappy was honest.
Cappy, thank you so much for coming up and being honest.
I appreciate that.
I thought we were cool.
All right, guys, can we keep it between you and fucking Danish?
I think we should focus on the project instead.
So, Danish, you didn't ask a question, though, Danish.
Do you have any questions?
My only question, he literally said what I believe, which is that there's no intrinsic value.
I don't understand.
Cappy, can you explain to me?
So why would you want people to buy your point if there's no intrinsic value?
So in the first place, right.
So this is actually a great question.
So I will say, I'm going to keep this part brief because I want to use this time on something else.
The way that this coin started is that I had gotten rugged a multitude of times,
and the last time I did, the people who made the coin rugged, very common, and they sucked,
I tried to save the project, couldn't, because I didn't have access to the, you know, shit that they had, the contract, the employer, etc.
So I told the community, the only way I can really help you guys with your bags is by making a coin and making it do better than the last one.
And I did that. People have sent me messages.
They've said it made it meaningful impact in their life.
Now, value.
So, Kathy, Caput, Caput, Caput, Caput questions.
What's your distributions?
What's your locker periods?
No, what?
No, what's the value?
But before you should...
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
What's the value?
What's the coin?
Like, why would Mario invest if there's no financial benefit?
Yeah, but, like, I was hoping you convinced me to buy the coin, and I'm not going to buy it if I'm there to dump on retail afterwards.
Of course, Mario, look, I don't think we're going to make it to retail if Pepe hasn't by this point.
And...
There is only one potential value proposition for our coin.
And like anybody else trying to do the same thing,
the chances of it occurring are so infinitesimally small
that from an investor's perspective,
if you treat it as an investment,
you would be an idiot to invest in it.
You shouldn't buy it if you don't like it.
And you might not even be our target demographic
But the one scenario in which there is any longevity and any perceived value in our coin is if we sort of become a closed circuit cultural economy.
And what I mean by that, because it sounds like a lot of bullshit, it is. I just made it up on the spot.
is the people behind this coin, me included, no, no, hear me out.
The people behind this coin, the people behind this coin, please, okay, hold on, I love them too.
The people behind this coin, including me, and there's a couple other people, we have a background in the creative industry.
I'm a creative director. I do a lot of branding.
I understand consumer psychology, which is why I know a lot of this stuff is bullshit.
Now, we like making stuff, you know, products, merch, whatever.
And a lot of the times we have ideas and we're like, that's fucking dumb.
It would never be profitable.
We're not going to sell us to people for money.
So this can act as a launch pad for us to make shit that's stupid that we would never claim to have value like some of these other guys.
NFTs, fucking, you know, cool shirts, whatever.
We've already made music and stuff if you look at our profile because we're building actual culture because we're being real.
And...
You can buy it with CapyCoyne because why the fuck would you spend your real money on it?
Now, if one day those products and this little microcosm are actually, you know, seen as things that are rare and that are highly desired by people that appreciate our culture, then maybe, then maybe a coin like this can be seen as an actual expression of like the value of like brand equity that we've developed.
But I agree.
Like you shouldn't say, oh, hey, give us all the money.
And then we make the shitty racing game.
So, sorry.
So let me go.
Go, no, no, no.
So first, I got someone, I'm not going to say who it is unless they want to say.
But I said, someone, I didn't expect him to say this.
It's like, oh, my God, this guy is incredible.
I love this guy.
And this is someone that hates meme coins.
Okay.
So I want to give you credit there.
It's dead.
Because he's honest.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Hello, guys.
Yeah, true.
Now, Capi, I have one quick question.
What's, um,
I'll ask it now, because I'm kind of skipping a few steps.
But I'm just curious, what is the volume?
Like, if someone writes a 10K check or 100K check to buy it, so I'm guessing the coin is listed,
how much does that impact the price?
And if someone sells 10K worth or 100K profit worth, how much that impact the price?
The reason I'm simplifying that question is to explain to the audience that liquidity
is really important when you're buying one of those coins.
What's the liquidity like for?
Yeah, you're exactly right. So the price impact, right, the price action and like the impact of your order is going to be impacted by liquidity. Right now, we are at a liquidity of 723,000 in US dollars and the market cap is about 6 mil. Right. So our liquidity compared to other meme coins is great. If you looked at any sort of, you know, actual financial instrument, obviously it's shit, right? But most meme coins, they don't have market makers. Like they get on these centralized exchanges before they should.
So yeah, of course, you're going to experience crazy volatility if you're a meme coin.
Would 100K pump it by much or not?
Yeah, it would pump it 100K.
I mean, look, if you look at a buy order of like,
you know, let's say 5Eath, right?
That's like 10K.
You're going to see impact.
So yeah, you're going to see what people call it Godfam.
So my next, and the reason I'm asking this question
is not because I'm sitting here running to write a check
just typically for the audience.
I'm asking this question to kind of go back to the original point.
You talked about there not being in value.
The potential of actually creating something of value
is the very minister.
And you're going to build shit that has no value.
It's like...
which Slaman and Dynish in other respects,
like at least he's being honest.
But then it goes back to the question,
if it's volatile as fuck,
it's there, people will buy it to make money,
are you just telling people,
hey, just gamble on our token
and there's no value there,
we cannot promise value,
or gamble there might be value in the future,
but we cannot promise it.
I'm trying to understand what the pitch is.
Can I add to that?
Some similar.
So essentially, because you said,
I didn't understand it, but I do.
Can I answer the question that was directed at me?
Yeah, I was going to add to that question, but if you want to add that and then answer this...
You said you were going to answer to it. Can I answer to it and then he can add to my answer?
Well, I was going to ask a question, but go ahead, go ahead.
Okay. You said you were going to add to one. So here's the thing.
I thought I was going to add to the question. Okay.
Bro, I meant to my Jesus.
I like this guy too.
All right. So, so, so Cappy, first, I like you for smashing flame man. It's beautiful.
He didn't smocker. He just didn't, he just didn't, he just didn't listen.
Yeah.
I just don't like, I just don't want to be interrupted or interjected.
You know, this is valuable time.
I was going to ask you a question and you're not being interjected.
Okay, go ahead because we're wasting more time arguing.
Exactly.
So what I was going to ask was, in addition to,
Go ahead, Kathy.
Thank you.
Oh, no, come on.
Bro, bro, you can't do that Slame Emmett.
Who's a co-host on the show?
Let him go ahead.
I respect the hierarchy.
I had your question, bro.
It's all right.
Fidgillian is getting upset because they've been trying to scam people and now it's been exposed.
But anyway, my point is, I was going to add to Mario's question, and the question was this.
In addition to that, from what you're saying,
and it's what you're basically,
what I've been making a point from when I understood when you guys were explaining these things.
It has no utility.
It has no value.
It has none of those things.
But what you're saying, it does have,
and just clarify this for me,
in addition to what Mario said,
that what it is is that you're making stupid things, as you called it,
and you want people to invest essentially through these coins in those things
because they're going to,
so it's essentially the art or what you're producing is what you think is inheriting this.
Is that right?
So not exactly.
And I think that the misconception is that you're conflating us with the 99% of people that, you know, you can assume, yeah, they're asking you to invest.
We're not asking anybody to buy this shit.
Now, here's the thing, right? Because, and you're certainly older than I am, so you're going to
understand this because you've seen this transition. Now, right now, because like I said, my
background's marketing and branding, right? We live in a time where, you know, 50 years ago,
you would try to sell somebody a product by saying, hey, it's durable or it's this or it's that.
Now, you don't sell them on the product. You sell them on the ethos of the product. This is
sustainable or this is for athletes or for people who are cool, right? So that's what I'm
talking about when I'm talking about brand equity. So when most people in my generation,
not yours, choose to spend money on things based on that, is it surprising to you that when
they grow up, instead of going into the traditional financial markets in which retail is still
exit liquidity and we still have shit like SPAC companies, which are basically the shit coins
of regulated finance.
and the regulators allow it to happen, and if you fuck up, you pay a fee to FINRA and you're still up $6 billion?
Is it surprising to you that they would rather lose that money gambling on shit that they think is cool and funny?
Because they're speculating either way. They're buying companies like Phase Clan. And what is Phase Clan?
It's brand equity that they planned on monetizing in the future and they didn't. And now the stock is a shit coin. So what's the difference?
Okay, first of all, you said a sentence that is my favorite new sentence that I'm going to use in my shows.
So you will get credit for it, Cappy.
But that SPACs are the shit coins of the stock market.
That is my favorite new sentence.
And it's true.
And it's allowed to happen.
So people have to stop blaming the regulators for not regulating.
And they have to start blaming the whole system from the top down.
Here's the thing.
Earlier somebody was arguing about his Bitcoin, a meme coin or a token.
And that's when I knew I was going to have a field day up here.
here because if you've actually read the white paper, Satoshi said Bitcoin is supposed to be
a trustless layer for digital transactions, right?
It's a transaction layer that circumvents financial institutions because he thought financial
institutions are full of shit, which they are.
And the people who are starting cryptos are also full of shit, which they are.
If there's money involved, most people are going to be full of shit.
That's just how it is.
We're bringing W.S. Baby, but Danish.
That's a fucking unexpected question.
I would like to say one more thing if that's okay.
And you can check this on my personal profile.
My ad is maybe control free.
I wrote a lot of threads.
I posted a lot about the founder of Wall Street Baby,
Roger Malcolm 3 and his partner, Anthony Marchese,
being scammers who have launched eight cereal rugs.
and they have not been able to cover this up but somehow you guys are unaware of this
if you'd like to ask them about oh shit bro bro bro stay yeah kappy stay with us let's let's grill
them then I perfect I'm trying to bring up WSP baby I can't find you because I think
your shadow band or something so WSP baby the I literally can't you're not coming up at all
so and probably you just
You just had no engagement.
He might not want to because I showed him all the receipts.
He tried to docks me and not realizing I was already dogs.
So, bro, no, no.
It's just, I can't find them.
So I think they're shadow band.
Let me see on the shadow band tool.
But Danish, that was a pretty, before we go to WSP, maybe the last pitch,
that was a pretty good pitch, no?
That was an interesting fish for me.
No offense, Cappi.
I actually like you as a person.
This happens in pitches all the time.
It was a terrible pitch.
Don't buy the coin.
Don't invest.
Yeah.
Okay, well, you don't like being interrupted, neither do I, my friend.
So, uh, the, the point that I've made is the founder, the product is proud.
Danish, is it my wife or his?
No, it's his internet, Donish, let me, yeah, yeah, let me bring you,
Lala, by do I, I don't think Lala can hear him, let me bring it down and back up.
Walsh, baby, you just had a, hold on, Simon, you go ahead, Simon, sorry.
Yeah, I was going to say in terms of his pitch, what I liked about it was he was extremely honest.
So as much as everybody else tried to blag why these coins had some intrinsic value and it was about culture and it was about all these things.
He essentially said, look, it has no value.
Our generation just want to gamble on shit and see if it's what and find out what's going on.
So I value that.
But in terms of getting someone to invest, I mean, if that's what this pitch is all about, then.
He failed, isn't it?
Because by being honest, which he was,
which we value,
no one would have been met.
Unless someone,
unless someone likes.
You didn't understand,
Mario,
what you guys didn't understand?
And you just got so,
he made a comment about,
you just want to help him.
I'm trying to help you.
Let's see what he says.
Let's see.
I'm trying to help you.
You don't need to help you, bro.
I understand the con now.
You literally have nothing.
You have no understanding about to say.
Oh my God.
You don't.
What's my lady?
My man.
No, no, to send me.
What's my lady?
No one talked about my lady, though.
Yes, he did. I did. I did. That's what I wanted to ask.
Because people use weird words doesn't make it any more important. We can have normal adult conversations.
Guys, guys, guys, you're just looking old and completely jaded and I understand.
Why did they not understand exactly?
Yeah, but do you educate us.
Okay, Dennis, what's the my lady?
No, no. Why does it matter? It wasn't even brought up on his...
No, it is.
No, no.
So, Fiji, why did Kappi say?
Can you educate?
What did they miss?
What did they miss on what Kappi said?
Fiji, what did they miss on what Kappi said?
I didn't mute anybody, but why can people still talk?
I muted. I muted everyone. Go ahead.
So, I'm going to tie together something kind of interesting that's been going on through this entire thing.
No, no, you're avoiding the question.
You said they don't know what they're talking about.
What do they understand?
They don't understand the entire kind of idea behind what Kaffi is trying to say and what other meme people are trying to say, which is...
What exactly?
What exactly?
The ladies are anti-establishment.
They have banded together and they...
There's a correlation between the ladies and shit coins in the aspect of it doesn't have to matter.
And do we ban, and do they band together?
And what does that mean that?
Cappy, am I wrong?
What is that even mean?
Why is that even?
Are you guys listening to yourself?
How does it relate to the lady?
Are people listening to themselves?
Like, you guys found.
Dr. Danish, I was asking Cappy.
Cappy, am I wrong?
You are mostly correct.
You're certainly exponentially more correct than everybody else.
What I would say is that, yeah.
Cappy, can you?
Cappi, Cappi, Cappi.
Before you continue, can you just explain to you what Fiji said, though?
Can I explain to you what he just said?
Yeah, what he's saying is that there is an ideology that exists within the culture of Mlady, right?
The NFT token and its kind of underlying community that is inherently kind of anti-establishment.
And what I would say to add on to that is that there is definitely an anti-establishment undertone.
The community is also stratified into a couple of different microcosons.
You can't speak for them categorically.
Right.
But at the end of the day, I think that there's a common through line of like a sort of absurdism.
And I think meme coins are fucking absurd.
And I think that we're doing something.
Let me jump in.
I don't want to interrupt.
But the reason is because I know we're in overtime and Wall Street baby is up as well and you just called them.
I think you said there as scammers, which I didn't expect.
I actually, I mentioned this to your team prior to coming on.
Yeah.
Oh, that was cool.
So that even makes it better.
WallShip Baby.
Cappy's got concerns here.
And what the concern is, from what I understood,
is that you've launched tokens before
and dumped them and launched new ones.
Are these allegations true?
And is that what it's about?
Is that another meme coin now you're pitching?
Wallsheep Baby, you're muted, bro.
Wallsheet Baby, not a good time not to be able to speak.
Is there somebody I can DM with evidence?
Yeah, you can send it through to me.
My team checks it.
Wall Street, baby, you're there?
Yeah.
Seems like he's calling a Fifth Amendment.
I mean, isn't this all meme coins, though?
What do you mean?
They're all...
They're all pumping dumps.
So, I mean...
So, I mean...
They're not all pumping dumps, but most of them are bad, yes.
So while Wall Street is a baby is trying to...
And again, I'm going to...
This time I wrote it down because every time you say, you...
Did you say this?
They're like, no, no, no, we didn't say this, we said something else.
We didn't say this, we said something else.
It means something else.
So I wrote down exactly what Kapi said in terms of what 50,000...
He said...
ideology in the community is anti-establishment, which is linked to absurdity, right?
So, no, anti-establishment ideas aren't linked to being absurd.
And if that's the modus operandi of your whole coin base, that essentially because we're anti-establishment,
we've got these absurd coins, and therefore you should basically buy these absurd coins.
That is more ridiculous than anything that was said before.
So thank you for making sure.
That's not what he said.
They're poking fun of utilities.
I literally wrote down what he said, Fidgetel.
Why do you keep, guys, keep denying things when you guys say them?
Sorry, man.
Danish, guys, guys, guys.
It does not fit their narrative.
Danish, Danish, let me do a better job.
Danish, let me know if you agree.
Would you, do you think, and let me do kind of give credit to meme coins
and I expected to do the opposite.
Do you think projects, let's say KAPI in this case, we were speaking earlier, do you think projects like KAPI, if they do launch a token and it's a decentralized token, okay, there's no central entities that own the majority of it.
It starts off as a joke, Dogecoin is an example, but then gains traction.
Community is great, the message is great, whatever reason it is, it gains traction and it has enough.
network effect and enough of a community and enough developers that start building on it and they hold the token because they believe in the message
No longer waiting for the next person to dump on again similar to where those coin is that now and after they pass this phase which have very miniscule of
Many very minus very number of like you know Pepe is probably the closest to it now by the looks of it listed on Bynast and all the other exchanges still very very very very high risk but when they get to that stage
Then they can start creating value and then the experiment of decentralized business building
where there's literally no central entity that makes a decision could work and I'm still calling it
an experiment Danish.
Is that a fair argument to make?
Because this is the argument that's the reason I'm looking to meme coins personally.
The reasons we had these two projects come on today.
I'm going to have potentially others come on on the other show is because I think that this
is a use case that makes sense to me even though it's a very important.
very, very high risk one and might apply to 0.0.001% of the projects.
What do you think, Donish?
Community should be around a purpose.
Community, for the sake of community is not a product.
And ultimately, when you're building a developer community or a community of people that want to build, there has to be some additional utility from the get-go, either in the infrastructure or somewhere along the way.
To build a community with a pipe dream that someday there'll be some utility is...
completely antithetical to how startups are built.
And if people can do that great,
but even to this day,
how much utility are people actually getting out of Doge right now?
Right?
It's just the beginning of that.
It's still a TBD,
and we have not seen,
I looked this up because I was trying to understand
what you're talking about.
There's no current...
major utility associated with Doge yet.
There's early projects that are interesting.
At this point, I have to say that the chances of a meme coin or a shit coin getting so big
and then ultimately finding developers and then ultimately finding developers that build
something of value and then ultimately finding end users that get value from that,
that's a lot of fucking...
steps and there's a much better way to start build solve a problem when you solve a problem
people will join the community because they believe in the mission and then you can continue
to build community with a purpose in mind this is not fucking rocket science denis what you're
talking about is a chain like
Which is different.
When you need to get developers to build on your protocol, it's different than what you're talking about.
Yeah, but I believe that that has much more value long term.
Not only for society, but actually like for the community itself.
I asked you this earlier.
What does utility mean to you?
So as I was saying, the utility is not for me.
The utility is for the developer.
The idea here is that the person that's building on top of something
should get some value from building on top of it
outside of just speculation.
The issue is that all of these coins are just,
speculation, people are fucking around.
And sure, they're fucking around, but there's closed communities within these larger communities.
People are buying from each other and pumping up prices.
There's a lot of shitty things that are going on.
And I'm not speaking about Kappi.
He doesn't seem like that.
But the bigger point is that there are a lot of these communities where random people are buying these while other people are talking and colluding in the back end and nobody fucking knows.
And people are getting fucked.
People are actually getting screwed.
We're acting like no one's getting hurt when really these quote-unquote communities are hurting tons of people that are buying into this bullshit.
But can, and it's Fiji, isn't it?
No one's forcing these people to buy these things.
But that happened all the time.
It's not like saying all these people are getting hurt.
It's not fraud.
There's fraud.
Okay, so I'll walk you through this.
Hold on, hold on.
I'll walk you through a very simple example.
Mario, I got to say this because also just remind everybody.
You know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, point.
Go ahead and do it, but know what you're getting yourself into.
So, ultimately.
If there's a large open community and then there is a private community within that open community.
The open community is saying, hey, look at the price.
It's going up.
Oh, this is going on.
That's going on.
And then within the private community, people are saying, hey, I'll buy from you.
You buy from me.
When we get to this price, we're all dropped the price.
That, by the way, happens all the time.
And that is actually the thing that hurts people.
That's what I'm saying.
So yes, no liberal Pelosi.
But Pelosi what?
Fidgetal, that's great.
Waterbautism makes you feel good, makes you feel nice and warm.
But we're standing up here.
We talk shit to Pelosi about this.
We're talking shit to people about this.
But that doesn't mean that we should support the same thing.
And chilling, quote, unquote, community.
There are people getting hurt.
People that are losing their savings on the shit.
You know how many people lost their savings on fucking NFTs?
But they're even because of this bullshit.
Jenish, we understand that every dollar earned.
That is not like rocket science. We understand when you're trying to like make things.
The question, no, but Fiji Fiji. No, but there's real collusion going on because it's completely unregulated.
Yeah, so this is this goes on the regulation side. But the thing is Fiji is when you have a token that represents utility. So I'm going to go back to gaming because the area I'm very excited in. Or even the projects that pitched earlier.
When you go to like the rally racing one, K4 racing, people will buy the token to play the game not to make money.
Otherwise, it's such a Ponzi scheme.
So when people buy the token to...
It's other people that sold that token make money,
but the people that bought the token to play the game
don't get money in return, but they get enjoyment in return,
for example.
Or they get, you know, being part of the community in return,
like that other project that pitched the one
exclusive access to security in jets.
That's the value add.
So when there's, and that's an NFT,
but when there's other utility beyond making money
is when you can call it a business.
When the only utility is making money,
it's a Ponzi scheme.
And that was the argument against play to earn games
in the early days, including...
fucking,
Axi, Wolf.
Axi, Axi,
Axi is the main one.
Axi's main criticism.
The earlier is the Ponzi scheme
because people were just making money,
but they started building a game
that you enjoy, and that's where it became a business.
And the argument that Donish is making
towards these meme coins,
when people buy them just to make money
that's not a business, that's not a community.
That's a...
Now, if people, let me end it with this.
Let me end it with this.
I'm sorry, sorry.
Just last thing, sorry, bro.
But if people buy capy coin or whatever other coin,
for the sake, and you know what,
I'm going to follow Capi Barra,
because at least he's honest about it.
When people buy a meme coin,
And if they say, like, if they buy Kappi because they like what he stands for, they're like, fuck it, I don't care.
Like if Donish says, I'm going to buy whatever, just for the sake of being part of community, he's honest, let's see what he can come up with, let's have fun with it.
That's utility.
Sure.
But it's utility nonetheless.
But the only reason people are buying it and everyone, whenever the meme coin founder of WSB baby, whatever jumps up and all he talks about is pump, pump, pump, price up, pump, pump.
That for me is not a utility.
That's not a project.
Okay, so I'm going to quickly, I know we have Fiddy, we have KAPI, we have Borg.
I want to be very clear. I've been asking Dr. Tennis to define utility for a very, very important reason.
In this space, people have pretended to identify what utility means without actually understanding why the word utility matters.
So utility is at the core. I'm buying something because I want it for it.
If you make money or not off of it, it's a separate conversation.
And so I think it's being muddied in terms of what's the utility of a dollar?
The answer is the government guarantees it to whatever degree, right?
And I think it's fools errands and foolish.
No, the utility is that you can buy things with it.
Yeah, you can buy stuff in crypto!
You can buy stuff in crypto right now.
What stores are accepting crypto right now?
Barely any stores you can accept crypto, bro.
Like, that makes no sense, Fiji.
The whole, the transfer of value for crypto is so early.
This is the challenge with Fidigital is that ultimately there are people up here.
They're making, you know, again, the key is if...
If a normie like myself doesn't understand what the fuck you guys are talking about, it's probably full of shit.
And that's the actual problem.
Agreed.
But here's a real problem.
You're talking about it as if you know it.
And that's the difference.
No, I'm not.
I'm the first one to say I don't.
If we can bridge that gap.
If we can bridge that gap, then we're going to get to something that is...
And by the way...
But you're making the bullshit definitions.
I'm not...
I'm not...
I'm not...
I'm literally not making up definitions.
You did because when you're talking about building on it, you're talking about a protocol.
You're not talking about a token.
They're very different.
They don't need anyone to build on it whatsoever.
They don't need developers whatsoever.
Yeah.
to build on it, they just need people to accept it.
That's a different way of going about it.
So there's different ways to do utility
besides getting developers, right?
And that's the part where there's a disconnect, I think.
Wall Street Betts, you said, I saw one of the tweets, you said, hold on no, no, no. Wall Street Betts, you said, you tweeted, you said the following, listening to grownups ask in a serious tone, quote, where's the utility in meme coins? And he said, is like an economist asking to analyze EBITDA from a joke. Can you please explain what you mean by this tweet, Wall Street Betts?
Yeah. I was frustrated listening to all the conversation earlier. You guys are talking about
meme coins, right? If you replace the word meme with the word joke, which is arguably,
and I know I'm simplifying, overly simplifying it, that's what it is. So you guys are
talking about trying to like extract utility from a joke is really silly, but it's also like not,
right? Because what's the utility from a movie ticket, right? You're not going to, you're not
going to extract money from it, but you're going to extract...
like enjoyment and pleasure and whatever it might be.
So, you know,
trying to apply words like investing and fundamentals
to things that are meant to just be fun,
it's just not going to work.
So that argument from earlier was just driving me nuts
since people were talking about two fundamentally different things.
You should have heard the people from Pepe
and other people acting like they were changing the world, though.
That's the issue.
Yeah, but they're not going to get evidence from a fraud.
That's the meme.
What's, hold on, Danish, you're chopping out, but what's the meme?
The meme is, so I brought up my ladies earlier.
I want to go to Capri real quick because this is, I think, really important.
The meme is that people like Dr. Danish and Slaman are on here going,
what's the intrinsic value?
And they're laughing at the idea that there needs to be intrinsic value.
You are the meme.
You are the product.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Thank you.
What the fuck does that mean?
What the fuck?
It means they're the point.
The same reason.
This is like real money.
You guys are fucking idiots for saying this kind of shit.
It's like literally like there are there are, and that's the point that is being made over here.
Wall Street Betts actually said something more important, which is somebody came up on stage.
And he was a fraud.
And I think that we have to just call them for what they are.
They are frauds that are acting like these are some of wage.
Who is a fraud?
Who is a fraud?
Well, Wall Street said it about Pepe.
I think speaking about Pauley.
But whoever was pumping Pepe, like all these people are coming out here and acting like, oh, my God, this is so great.
And look at how much the value has gone up.
And it's like, sure, we are the meme.
Dude, they're making memes out of a bunch of different people that think that there's something behind this.
And I think that's the issue.
Yeah.
The same argument.
The meme is the people who think they're part of a community, but basically they're going
to get dumped on.
Exactly.
The same argument was made about Bitcoin early on.
I was very early in Bitcoin.
The same exact arguments I'm hearing right now is the same arguments I heard about Bitcoin
very early, that I was buying invisible money.
And then I'm an idiot.
It has no utility.
Blah, blah, blah.
And now today, it's widely accepted as a store of value.
It's the same argument.
Do you know what I mean?
It's not, though, because Joe, these guys are admitting now.
Like, Wall Street said it.
Cappy said it.
The paraphrase I'm presenting in a different way, but essentially they're saying we are saying it's not real.
We're saying it's a joke.
We're saying it's a meme.
What Capi's doing is what-
Is that what Bitcoin is?
Joe, is that what Bitcoin is?
It's not real.
What Capi is saying and the reason you liked him and why people are buying his coin is
is because it's very likely to be extremely honest,
which is actually what the trend is right now.
And that's what Fidgill was talking about, Malady, for.
But I'm still not going to go out there and buy a fucking coin.
Yeah, you won't.
Like, are you kidding?
And I think anyone who invests their life savings in it shouldn't either.
If they're looking at it like a lottery ticket,
I might buy a meme coin over a lottery ticket.
I might think that's a better, that's a better chance.
That's the way I look at it.
That's true.
At least the lottery ticket is not as random and it's not going to specific people.
These people are literally colluding and fucking each other or fucking people over.
Can I just point out one thing about this?
You have Bitcoin, which is a thing.
I do believe that Bitcoin needs to kind of be set aside from the rest of the coins because of reasons that have been discussed earlier.
But let's be honest about what a lot of these coins are.
They are pumping dust.
But when you call something a meme coin and everyone says to the moon and let's pump it,
it is a self-described pump and dump, right?
Where people are celebrating it.
They're hoping to get rich.
Of course they are.
Right.
Like that is part of the fun.
The.
behind a lot of these meme coins.
Not all of them or a lot of these shit coins.
But that is part of the enjoyment.
Like when people, the problem is using the word invest.
Hold on.
Let me finish, please.
When people use the word invest is where they screwed up.
Like when you invest in an out-of-the-money stock option that it expires in two hours,
that's not an investment.
This is like an enjoyment, right?
Like, and people know that they're just purchasing the chance to possibly get rich.
And they know it.
And they're just being unapologetically honest about it.
then it should be regulated like the casino.
Sure.
So then should we have regulation?
It is.
We've been asking for regulation.
Hold on, hold on.
It is what, Fiji?
It is regulated.
It is regulated.
There's not enough time and money to enforce.
Okay.
Okay.
No, no, that's fair.
There's regulation that says this shit is illegal.
But then these influences, Fiji, your lawyer,
these influences pumping those fucking shit coins,
saying, hey, buy this, buy this, buy this.
Dude, a girl watch a token called jugs, and they
and then complained that the devs stole all the money.
Like, that's why there is regulation.
And by the way, if there is enough resources,
the regulation already exists.
It just isn't applied often frequently enough.
And it's because there is this greatness.
I think we will see a balance between much like the...
Fidji, can ask you a question?
Sorry, bro.
Just a quick question.
Why only crypto?
Why is only crypto full of this shit?
I don't understand.
Like, we went...
I thought after FTX and after Luna and after all that rubbish...
We're done with this.
Like we're going to mature.
How can meme coins pump again?
How can the influences promote meme coins again?
Because there's money.
It's fun.
It's fun.
I also want to put it out.
I also want to point out not just again like Cappy that was so nice to well he's going by Cappy today yesterday he was going by control like this is a third like and then he goes around talking about how he's like calling other people's camera this is his third coin that he launches in a week right I'm not going to go out and single out all the other coins they launched.
Hold on.
Cappy is that true?
Hold on, that's true.
So if you play back the recording, because the space is recorded, I actually earlier came on and said my personal account at maybe Control Freak, this Jamie Rogazinsky, that's Wall Street, that's name, is what's called a different account.
I made it for this project because I also have a personal account, like most people with a project, right?
Yeah.
And this is the first time I've ever launched a coin.
We also had a personal conversation in which I told you that I would provide documentation of Roger Malcolm 3 and Anthony Marchese.
No, no, no, I'm not, I don't want to.
I wasn't at attacking.
There was a reason why I didn't.
What are my other two coins?
I can name Roger Malcolm's projects.
I have a list.
What were the other two coins I lost this week?
Why are you dropping names all over the place?
I was just pointing out that people come and go to this space because there's money to be made.
I didn't try to make this personal, right?
Like I'm glad that I've always docks myself.
Can I ask a question?
Sorry, Jamie.
At first, Capi, have you docks yourself?
Does anyone know your actual identity?
Yes, my full name is Aria Collage and I'm from Toronto, Ontario.
Okay, much respect.
That's a big step forward.
Okay, do you mind if ask one more question, Jamie?
Do you know the other two coins that Capi launched?
I do, but I'm not here to try and trash coins.
I find out like childless.
I would like you to tell everybody what the other two coins that I launched this week.
Okay, so we'll move on.
Okay, cool.
So have you launched any other coins, Cappi, before we move on?
Sorry, can you repeat?
I have not launched any other coins.
I have never launched a coin ever, except for Cappy.
Really?
Except for Cappy.
Yes, correct.
Correct.
The Wall Street, you need to clarify because you're basically making this guy sound like that.
Sure.
Yeah, the Wall Street, the Wall Street's that's coin and the now DJ.
I mean.
Hold on, hold on.
He's asked you a question.
He's asking your question.
Sorry, Jamie, go ahead.
Yeah, I mean, it's clear. There's a reason why we spoke. I can't believe we're doing this.
You said that we had a conversation. I can't believe that you're actually making me out your coins.
I don't want to do this, but you're making me.
The Wall Street Betts coin that was rugged by ZJZ, and then the new one that just came out called the DGen one, which was the dropped one, where the WSP mod is currently on the spaces.
Yeah.
Right, correct, because WSB Mod was a co-founder of Wall Street Betz coin and is now trying to relaunch it as D-Gen.
I am not a founder of either of the two coins.
Yeah, but you're a part of the team. Come on.
I was literally brought on to Wall Street Bettscoin to try to help W.S.B.M.
So going back, so going back, so going back, so yeah, by the way, Donish, this is very common in the crypto space.
And this is, I know my point. That was the point, right? Like, everyone does these things.
Like, I didn't want it to get all like...
I want to say everyone, bro.
Like, I've never launched a token.
I've never launched an NFT, and I'm too scared to do so.
Fiji's never launched a token or an NFT.
Lala, I don't think you have either.
Slyman has...
Slyman has.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I've launched an NFT.
I've never launched a token. I've never launched a crypto. My NFTs were completely free. I launched them.
Free NFTs doesn't count. Slaman launched a token, made some money.
He just got about 20 a bet. I've never tried to scam people.
But conclusion, so conclusion. I have two and one of them was my feet for a while Slaman.
All right guys so I want to I want to go to Borovic but then Danish I want to kind of conclude it is like
And just let's discuss it openly here.
It's like Man and Danish.
So Danish, you run the finance spaces that we do.
It's like man, you run the politics and world defense spaces that we do.
And for you do crypto, so you're not included in this discussion.
And you'll see why.
Because I want to discuss what's next.
And I'll ask you my question right after Barber gives final comments.
And WSP baby, they couldn't come up.
They've tried from two accounts out of their shadow band or whatever's happening, but they couldn't come up.
And it's genuine, by the way.
No, no, it's genuine.
They couldn't come up because I brought him up.
They couldn't unmute.
And they're DMing the team.
They're DM, not copy.
They're the other project, the WS baby or whatever.
But Borovic, just final quick comments, man.
I see your hand up for a while now.
You've been waiting respectfully.
Before I have an open conversation with Slaman and Danish
on how to treat all this,
especially with our big audience.
But let's go with Borovic first.
Thank you, Mario. I mean, basically, meme coins, they grab attention. We're in an attention economy. You asked me earlier why all the NFT people went to meme coins. I told you they followed the money. They followed the attention. I literally made two tweets.
Oh, you dropped out, boy, like...
It's terrible Wi-Fi today.
Can we go back to Katte and let him defend himself?
No, no, no, hold on.
So first, we just want to be fair to WS. Baby.
They haven't had the chance to come up and speak,
so we don't know their story.
We'll probably hear that.
I'll probably bring them up in a future show.
Fiji will bring them up and they can explain it further.
I just want to be fair.
I think in some I would agree.
It's always unfair to speak about someone when they can't speak for themselves,
and usually we don't do that.
So I just want to give, just,
mentioned that word there for a WS baby.
But to go back to the questions that I have for Darnish and Suli,
guys, what do you think, Darnish in Slamat?
What's your take after hearing all this and after me giving the speech
about how meme coins could end up getting utility?
What's your thought about everything you've heard so far?
So for me, I think we are sort of, go ahead Slamma first.
Yeah, yeah, and then you can elaborate.
So basically, for me,
What Wall Street said is the way that these guys should be presenting what meme coin is.
We've been on this space for like four hours.
And essentially, before these two came along, people were basically presenting it as, you know, something that has utility, something that has some financial benefits, something that has, is profitable, right?
And then KAPI came on.
and Wall Street came on and said,
look, then none of those things.
It's a Gen Z thing.
It's a gamble.
It's fun.
And let us do what we want to do.
Now, if they're presenting like that,
that's cool.
Like, people know, look,
it's none of those things.
It's just something fun.
If you find it cool,
put some money in it,
you know you're going to lose it.
By the way,
just to show the community,
just so you just want to enjoy up,
the capi's got the most votes out of all the polls so far out of them.
It just shows maybe community does have,
you can give credit some credit to the community.
Well,
I don't know,
like,
Or maybe just honestly works.
Yeah, exactly.
Honestly works.
Yeah, let me, let me actually before, before you jump in and before Danish, Lala, I want Lala to go,
because I want the positive side of meme coins as well.
Lala, you've helped cohoes.
You didn't speak much, I know, and I told you, I warned you about that.
That's a possibility.
And that's your first time.
But your thoughts on everything you've heard so far, because I also see, like, I'm trying
that, I'm playing the other side now.
I also see the value in meme coins.
I just...
I just worry that the risks far outweigh the potential value
and everyone looking for the next Doge coin
that could end up creating utility in a decentralized fashion
end up losing money gambling their fucking every penny they have.
Stop talking about utility.
I literally feel like I've been in like one of those speed rounds of like high school debate, this entire space.
You guys talk a million miles an hour, but I love it.
I think, yeah, I mean, my thoughts on this after four hours of hearing all you guys talk.
Yeah.
honestly goes back to one of the first things I said because I was worried we were going to be like two ships in the night, right?
I was worried like we were going to try and be proving utility this whole time when it's honestly like we're talking about joke coins and meme coins and being responsible with your money.
Like if you're being stupid, throw in your life savings into a shit coin.
Yeah.
I mean, I can't help you.
There's nothing Lala can do to help you.
I love Kappi up here because he really embodies the entire shit coin ethos, which is like, yo, we're just having fun.
Everybody else is taking themselves way too serious.
And I, I mean, I sympathize.
I do sympathize with the people that are genuinely concerned that people are going to lose their life savings in these rugs.
But who is actually taking these things that serious?
And if you are, you've got problems.
You need therapy.
You probably should not be up here talking to fidgetle and Mario.
You need to be somewhere else.
And yeah, Danish is giving me the thumbs down.
But look, I'm a big advocate for autonomy and personal responsibility.
Lala, la.
Based on what you just said so fine, Cappy spoke really well.
So I'm going through his tweets, 22 hours ago he said, digital wellness has reached the matrix.
Cappy is trending on coin market cap.
Coin market cap trending means how many people are buying and selling the coin.
So the point that I have is, and I'm not taking a jab at Capp because he's probably one of the most honest people we've had on stage.
But the point is, and he's saying people are, this is just fine.
Well, here is Cappy, who's probably one of the better speakers here, the more honest ones.
just talking about, and there's another here
an image of him showing someone
holding $500, $100
bills that was tweeted May 12th.
by someone else, by Kappi's own project,
and he retweeted it.
And another one, he get in no time to explain.
And he puts the contract telling people to get in
and chose money, just coins of money.
So my concern is while it does look fun
and while maybe people in the NFT and crypto community
would understand this is fun,
there's another tweet here about money
and it's just all about money and some jokes.
My concern is when the average Joe comes in,
when the, I'll finish, sorry,
when the average Joe sees this is like,
okay, this is a way for me to make money.
That's where my concern is when it starts talking about money, which may be necessary to get it to a certain level.
So it becomes a community building project.
I don't know.
I just, I don't buy that argument because let's think about it.
Like most of these coins are not being traded on like coin base or Robin Hood.
Like we haven't even seen Pepe added to Robin Hood yet.
So it's not like these people are just total noobs and like.
your grandma setting up her FTX account.
Like that's not the situation here.
In order to even trade a lot of these shit coins,
like you have to have a level of proficiency in blockchain
like to know how to set up a wallet,
to know like you did in Twitter.
Be able to like access an exchange or like use a phone.
Yeah.
You've clearly been in the ecosystem enough to even know what,
you know,
some of these really small coins even are.
And you have to have some level of proficiency
to even be able to move money around to purchase them.
So I don't know if I buy that that whole argument.
You know, the only comment briefly.
One second.
You know, one thing I want to add to that, though, is that, sure, they might be sophisticated in terms of the technology,
but they might still be suffering from things like gambling addiction more than, you know,
we've seen all of this everywhere.
And so, you know, there are people that get into this and then they continue to kind of go down the rabbit hole.
putting, you know, most people that put their life savings,
you know, your grandma is not putting in life savings on shit coins.
Your grandma is putting life savings in the actual casino,
which is actually regulated really poorly, in my opinion.
The problem here is there are people here
that are actually putting their real money in
and they don't realize they're being played.
If this was random, I would be okay with it.
But the people are actually being played on the back end.
Hey guys, can you hear me?
Dinesh.
Dinesh, the problem is, is,
oh no, Sam, so yeah,
Dime, Joe, go ahead and Sam.
Meme coins are like content machines, right?
People the problem that people who are not into crypto don't get or very deep into crypto don't get is
Right now you have subscriptions on Twitter right and people are paying a monthly fee to to consume that common content
This is a completely different animal
Mean coins are content machines people like the content they wind up buying the token and instead of paying a subscription
They go up
Ridiculous you're one of my favorite speakers with friends ridiculous fucking argue
Are you guys able to hear me? This is Sam dude. I'm sorry. I'm sorry
I'm sorry
Sam go ahead when I'm not into it bro. I've been in crypto for a few years. I've got a punk
But then again, but maybe you're right but Joe Joe then maybe you're right you
Yes and not. I have team members that are deep into it. They're DGNs. Complete DJM.
Am I able to speak here? Can people hear me?
Yeah, in a bit, Sam. I'll just give the mic right after promise. But Joa, then again, you might, I'll give you this. How about this? Because I called you, I'm in a complete rubbish. At the same time, I'm the idiot. They skipped the whole NFT hype phase, thankfully in a way. And then later started arguing, you know, traveling to traditional finance events and talking about the value of PFPs. So,
Maybe, maybe, you know, you have a point.
I just don't think you articulated it well.
Much love.
Sam, maybe you can articulate the point better than Joe.
Sam, you got to unmute, bro.
So left corner.
Cool.
Great argument, Sam.
You've really supported the meme community.
I think, I think you've backed me up.
Sam, last chance.
You got to unmute bottom.
He's there, man.
I just muted him and he's probably struggling.
Yeah, I'm here.
Just, I don't know what's going on with our accounts,
but we're having a little trouble.
Um, a little trouble here.
Oh, you're from the Wall Street baby team.
Mine seems to be in and out.
I don't know if you guys are able to hear everything I'm saying or if it's consistent.
Sam, can you hear me?
Geez, I don't know.
Wall Street, baby, where are you guys?
I'm concerned.
Like, there's some, like, in third world country with bad internet or something high in the height.
I don't know.
Where are you, man?
Can you hear me?
Let me bring him down and back up.
They've had issues with all their accounts.
Let me bring him back up.
They're definitely in Dubai.
But, yeah.
Hold on. I see what she...
Well, Barwick has his hand up.
Yeah, I was a...
I got rugged.
Oh, yeah, Borovic, you had issues as well.
Go ahead, bro.
Yeah, I mean, what I was saying...
Yeah, go ahead.
You asked me earlier about why all these NFT DGens are now, you know, buying meme coins,
talking about meme coins all over Twitter.
That's because I literally tweeted a couple days ago.
Two tweets, right?
The first one was, are you buying meme coins?
And the other one was, are you buying NFTs?
The are you buying NFTs got like 500% more engagement?
You know, that literally tells you that everyone is chasing the engagement, chasing the money, chasing the attention.
Attention is valuable.
And with Pepe, there were, you know, billions of impressions on social media.
My tweet went viral on Instagram and Facebook.
I've never had a viral tweet screenshot and going on, you know, other social medias.
And that was a Pepe tweet.
So, yeah.
And companies pay a lot of money for that kind of attention, right?
You pay a lot of money for Super Bowl commercials.
So I think that's kind of what the value brings, right?
And as far as like Cappy up here, like talking about how there's no intrinsic value, of course, like you literally should be telling people.
Everyone should be telling people, hey, only put in like your pocket change, right?
Because we're just having fun here.
There's nothing going, like there's nothing except for just fun gambling, right?
It's gambling.
It's speculating on memes.
And it's having fun.
People who like...
end up fomowing, it's because they see people take a screenshot of making a million dollars, right?
But the people who make that a million dollars on Pepe, they probably put in like a couple
hundred dollars, maybe a few thousand at max, right? And they got in super, super early.
Took a screenshot and everyone's like, oh my God, oh my God. And they phomow in and they like
lose their house, they lose their car, right? And I always tell people, I like tweet a reminder
tweet every single day. Don't put in more than a few hundred dollars. It's actually way cooler of a story
right to put in $200 to make a million,
then put in like 10,000.
Like it's way cooler to put in less money.
We should be like preaching that, you know?
And yeah, like really happy for Cappy to come up here
and like talk about that and tell people that, hey,
like we're just a meme coin.
Like don't buy this if you don't want to.
And like because the ethos of crypto was free market, right?
The whole point of Bitcoin was to get away from establishments.
And I think that's what meme points kind of are.
It's a weird argument.
It's a free market.
Yeah, yeah, look, I just...
I just want to tell everyone listening because I know I have a lot of people outside the crypto community.
And I just want to remind you, everyone that says something positive about mean coins,
and obviously the people criticizing it will say the same thing.
Only put in money you could lose.
This is not a VC type investment.
You're not investing in a startup.
You're not investing in something regulated.
You are gambling.
While we're arguing whether utility could be built on meme coins and, you know, for Binance to list meme coins.
Right.
There could be some argument made there where Dogecoin is today.
It does not mean anyone's recommending, including the biggest shillers of meek coins,
that you should put money you're comfortable losing or you should treat this as an investment.
So just want to make sure this is clearly highlighted as we wrap up the space.
And Sam, I've sent you an invite.
You've got to accept bro before I can't keep waiting for you guys forever.
But the final quick words.
Also, don't cheapen this like the...
the knowledge of the space.
I'm tired of hearing maybe you'll build utility on top of a token.
If it's a mean token, it's a mean token.
It's not waiting to get utility.
And actually one...
Sam's up.
Just a minute.
Yeah, yeah.
One of the earliest things I heard from other lawyers when we were talking.
This is years ago.
We would say the best way to actually launch a crypto project or an NFT project
is to say before you launch it that we are going to shut down shop and don't expect
anything.
Yeah.
Sam, final quick words. I know you're ready for a while. I'll give you a quick word.
We'll hear you more time later. Can you hear me? I don't know if you can hear me. Hopefully you can hear me okay.
Yeah, we can be fine. Okay, good. Finally. I don't know if we've been bought it or what, what's going on. But yeah, so I don't know if the thousand foot view was given really quick on the project, but basically, you know, Wall Street Baby is a decentralized project, renounced contract, is a community-owned token.
Uh, no, there was no team allocations, no air drops.
Uh, everything that was done was launched fairly and everybody with a
bought in was was bought on the open market.
Um, it's a true community token and there's a very powerful, strong community
that's working very hard, you know, night and day to make this thing successful.
Um, it has a 5% allocation to TED ed dedicated in a wallet for charity.
the higher the token goes, the more money that goes to TED-Ed for that charity.
There's a 1% allocation to the artist that created the original Wall Street Betts logo.
And yeah, there's...
What's the value of the token itself?
Like, when you buy the token, is there anything you could do with it?
Is there something being worked on at all?
Um, so there's several things. I mean, philanthropy, you know, is we want to drive to philanthropy.
We want to show the world, you know, I guess the token in itself, kind of some of the, I guess you can call it utility is that, you know, we want to show the world, uh, that crypto can do something besides, uh, besides be a Ponzi scheme or besides, uh, you know, just, just be a bet on, on wealth. You know, we want to show, show that something good can be done through crypto.
and also we're like what how's a philanthropy yeah i just want to understand there and donish i'll
give you the mic oh so so the uh so the the ted ed is the first first example of that
but just uh so the five percent uh donated to the ted ted ed education basically raising
money for for their uh charity um and also um
You know, we want to onboard people into crypto.
We want to show them what Web3 is about.
We want to show them that it can be a force for good.
It can do good things for people.
It can do good things for the world.
And we want to unite traditional investors to Web3,
and we want to find ways to do that through our community building
and through the strategies that we build together as a team.
And everyone on the team and everyone on the team is volunteers.
Nobody here is getting paid.
We're all just community members rallying together behind a token
that represents several things.
It represents what, you know,
Freedom to transact. It represents the mean culture.
You know, what we can do together as a team and as an organization, you know, as an organized community, I should say.
And, you know, I found the project myself.
What's up?
I've got a question about the 5%.
Is that the 5% of transaction?
Is that the 5, like, how do you guys define 5% of what?
That's 5% of the market cap.
So 5% of market cap is being sent to charity.
How often?
Yeah.
It's reserved in a wallet for them to claim and it will be dispersed, it has a disbursement mechanism, so it would be released over time to not like dump the token, basically, and it would be done in an organized way.
Can you walk?
Since that's the main focus of it,
is to have philanthropy,
if that's what you were saying earlier.
Well, the philanthropy is a bonus, right?
It's one part.
We want to cover multiple areas.
So, I mean,
the focus of the token is to onboard,
is to try and onboard traditional investors
and bring Wall Street bets-type people into crypto.
You know, and we want to do that through.
And, you know, at the same time,
we want to do some good.
We don't just want to be in it for ourselves
and be in it for...
you know, for our own benefit, right?
So I found this token ahead and checked all the boxes for me.
What's that?
Sam, I'm assuming you own some tokens.
I do own some tokens.
I bought them on the open market, yep.
Yeah, so technically saying that there's no benefit to yourselves is not a correct statement, right?
Of course there's some benefit.
Oh, I've never said that, no.
Of course, there's a financial benefit, and that's part of any crypto, any, any, any, any, any, uh, any, uh, any, any, uh, any, any, uh, any, any, uh, any, any, uh, come together as a team and see what we can do as a team and try and be successful as a team. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, ultimately, ultimately, if people end up using your platform, I still don't understand what the actual utility here is as compared to any of the other coins there out there.
Am I for...
Well, you're telling you.
I'm...
I'm the founder
of Wall Street Baby.
I've been waiting.
We can hear you now,
we can hear you now, buddy.
Hold on.
Go ahead.
Yeah, yeah.
He's the founder.
All right, guys.
So I wanted to rebuttal my argument
against Cappy,
whatever.
But I don't really care.
They reported our Wall Street Baby account
so much.
that we couldn't even log into it.
So we regained access to that.
So their idea was to come up here in FUD so much.
And then also report us so much that we couldn't give a rebuttal.
Luckily, we figured that out.
Thank you to Mario Narfowl's team for being so patient
and letting us try with multiple accounts.
But I do appreciate that.
As for this space, I'll be the first developer to tell you,
not being docs.
Most of the things in the space fail.
If it's not Bitcoin or E, everything is a risk.
I have launched projects before. Some did really well. Some failed. This account that I'm on right now, you know, I managed to do what Richard Hart took a year to do in like 30 days. I launched a proof of work blockchain for meme coins called proof of memes.
It's a little bit of a struggle bus right now because keeping a blockchain online is very expensive.
Getting the exchange listings, very expensive, building liquidity.
But we lost, actually, no, we did not.
Can I ask your question?
Yes.
Can I ask you a question?
Because I only be trying to come up for a while.
So first, do you have, are you docks or no?
Just so I am.
Yes, I am, Doc.
And thanks to Capi, my address, my parents' address.
Everybody addressed that's even close to me is posted all over the internet, which is illegal.
And I will be reporting that to law enforcement.
so I will say that
but yes I'm doxed
I doxed myself actually
but I didn't dox my addresses
so I am doxed my name
Roger Lee Malcolm the 3rd
what's your name sir
Roger Lee Malcolm the 3rd
Oh, okay.
Oh, that's the person, Kappa, you were referring to Roger Lee.
So that's the person you referring to.
You guys are brutal in the crypto space.
I fucking swear.
You guys are crazy.
All right, so Roger, just want to ask you a question.
So the concern that Kapi had is that you've launched many projects that went to zero.
Now, I want to, I'll mention something that is going to back you up and there's something
that's going to be critical of you.
To back you up, a lot of proper startups in crypto that we've invested in.
So when we invest, IBC invest.
We lock up our tokens.
That means if the founder leaves, we're fucked.
And it happens all the time where the founder leaves and launches a new product.
And then VCs like us just blacklist them.
So to tell you that VCs do that in crypto, even startup founders do that, it's not as frowned upon for obvious reasons.
Now, my concern is...
If you launch tokens, make money off them, it dumps, you move on to the next one instead of trying to build it and trying to build utility.
That's another story.
It's getting to kind of scammy territory.
Which one would apply to you?
And I'm trying to be objective about it.
I've launched things that have failed.
And I caught the bulk of the bear market.
And I want to say, for the sake of Wall Street baby, when all this fud that Cappy brings up,
came about to the community.
What I did was I took every single token I owned and burned it,
because I wasn't going to let the community burn to the ground
because I have a background of some things that didn't work out.
So I burned over half a million dollars in tokens for the community,
the docks to my wallets, and burned all of it.
And then when it dipped...
On that dip, I got back in, I bought in, but still, I'll never hold what I held in those wallets.
So I am just, there's no one person more important in this community than any other person.
It's a completely community-led project.
I lost over half a million dollars in potential value just to give a middle finger to people that are fudding 6,000 holders who are all just as important to this project as maybe somebody like me that's supporting it.
And if I have my 90 seconds, if I can get my 90 seconds, I would really like to give my pitch up here.
Yeah, sure.
Go ahead, man.
And then, Cappy, I do want you to respond afterwards because I know there's a lot of things mentioned towards you.
I'll let you respond afterwards.
So Cappy, sorry, Wall Street, baby.
I'll let you do the pitch.
You got the ding ready?
Yeah.
Yeah, go ahead.
Got it ready yet.
There's so much drama before the pitch.
Of course, look, I like this.
We had five start-ups pitch.
It was smooth, normal.
Some people considered boring.
Others enjoyed the discussion.
And then we had two meme coins pitch and all hell broke loose.
Welcome to meme world.
But a Wall Street baby.
The mic is yours.
Go ahead, man.
All right, I'm going to give my pitch now, guys.
First off, I want to say that there isn't a single real Bitcoin maxi in this space.
A real Bitcoin maxi would never be caught comparing smart contract meme tokens to a decentralized peer-to-peer networked backed by millions of dollars in hardware around the globe.
Despite Wall Street baby being up here in the space right now, the biggest meme here are the people arguing a comparison between Bitcoin and meme coins.
In reality, the average Wall Street baby holder buying our token was probably not going to buy Bitcoin at 25K hoping for a 2X.
So I can promise you that Bitcoin is not losing market share over meme coins.
The only thing losing market share over meme coins here is a casino.
Billions of dollars are lost every month to online gambling.
Nobody here gives a shit.
The Bitcoin maxis should not position themselves as the front office to the gambling helpline for people that like meme coins.
At the end of the day, if anyone here could go back and buy Dogecoin at a 1 million market cap, they would.
If anyone here could go back and buy Bitcoin under a dollar, they would.
And they'd be maxis in each of those coins.
And to be straight honest with you guys, Vitalik is not doing much to onboard people in the crypto.
If so, honestly, he's probably scaring more people away from it than he is onboarding.
And meme coins are actually taking the lead on this.
This is why the entire goal of Wall Street Baby is to onboard the Wall Street best community into crypto.
This is a net positive for the entire crypto community if we succeed and nobody here should want to stop that.
Wall Street Baby is fully decentralized and there are zero dedicated team tokens.
Wall Street Baby uses the original logo of the Wall Street Best Community to offer that community.
Their very own meme coin.
5% of the supply is set aside for TEDED, a nonprofit educational organization.
And honestly, TED is the same as TEDx and TED Talks and I'll leave it there.
So, what was your name?
I'm just going to call you Wall Street, baby.
That was actually a really good pitch.
It was probably one of the best pitches.
I can feel the emotions in your voice.
But I have concerns, man.
The concern that you mentioned is, as you were doing the pitch.
No, Donish, the credit I gave him, he pitched well.
I'm not saying the argument was good.
He pitched well, it was well articulated.
And I said there's emotion behind the voice because the poor guy has been trying to come up for like last half an hour.
So yeah, he's reading.
So, yeah, he's reading script.
It was a good script.
But look, I have concerns.
Let me go and get to my concerns,
because that's what I want to focus on.
The concern...
The concerns that I have is when you were doing the pitch, you talked about BTC having no,
no one would invest in BTC because it has no return.
Then he talked about Dogecoin, people won't invest in Dogecoin because no longer has return
because already pumped so.
I did, correct me from wrong.
Correct.
Okay, perfect.
Because I did, I'll let him correct me.
So I don't want to put words in your mouth.
I said, and I'll add to it.
And you said, and I add to it, you said, then you say also Bitcoin is not below a dollar or something.
But Dogecoin is not below a dollar.
No, no, what I said was everybody here could go buy Dogecoin.
under a dollar they would if everybody here could go well i guess under a mill market cap is what i said
specifically and if everybody here could go buy bitcoin under one dollar they would and nobody here would be
in the meme coin space nobody would give a fuck that's just the fact of the matter that's it's the truth
if everybody here could go buy bitcoin under a dollar we probably wouldn't even be hosting this space
is there a reason is there a reason is there a reason anyone should get into the meme coin scene
other than trying to make money
Honestly, I don't think anybody's in any crypto at all other than trying to make money off of it.
You think that people are paying for McDonald's with Bitcoin?
No, it's not there yet.
The Lightning Network is not there.
True, true.
This is it.
Hold on, Don't know.
Don't know.
Honestly, they're trying to make money.
And if you're saying otherwise, you're lying to yourself.
So Walsh, baby, I'm going to give the mic to Danish.
Oh, don't know.
So one last point.
Last point.
I promise.
I don't go to Danish and Slam.
But the last point I have, man, is you're right.
Like even me, like we invest in projects as we expect a return.
But where the difference is, when we invest in a project, number one, we lock up our
tokens that doesn't exist in the mean community, a project barely survives and that's like expected.
But more importantly, we put our money behind a project.
Darnish has a startup that's raised, whatever, I don't know if you can mention the Darnish,
but it's doing really well.
When you put money behind these startups, you're hoping to make a return on a project that's
going to create value that people will pay to use their service.
where medium coins come in is you're only making a return when other people are trying to make a return and you dump on them and no one's going to end up using this project using the utility they have this is the difference this is where my concern comes in and this is where i'm trying to make i disagree what did vitalik do to everybody at the top of the last bull market he used everybody his exit liquidity it's no different no matter what project you're in it's the same with stock
somebody loses
yeah it's a zero-sum game
I understand
but at the end of the day
Ethereum is not going to go to zero
it could go to zero
but it's at least creating utility
and there's going to be people using Ethereum
you buy Ethereum not only to make money
you buy Ethereum to use the blockchain as well
that's the difference
but doesn't apply to people
Is Sheba still a month
Is sheba still a month
by doing our project?
The issue here really is, though, that, and as I said before, so let's say you go to the casino and you play poker, you know the people that you're playing with are there to beat you.
Here, people are walking, neck up to you and acting like you're part of a community and then they stab you in the back.
That is the difference here.
Just like Mario was saying earlier, the whole point is.
is to find exit liquidity.
And exit liquidity is a euphemism for a sucker.
And you guys are going out there and building these quote-unquote communities
so you can find the next sucker that you can put the money on.
That is the real problem here.
And honestly, nobody, and I'll be honest with you, I listened to all the different conversations about the utility of Bitcoin.
Not one person here actually understands it. It solves Byzantine General's problem.
Utilities, the fact that it's mathematically basically a clock, a ticking clock that offers people a decentralized opportunity to use it as, to use it as a monetary value to transact between nations without any centralized authority intact.
So honestly, the Bitcoin community is treating, the Bitcoin maxis, quote unquote, maxis in the space are treating Bitcoin more like a meme coin than some of the meme coin communities in here because we're comparing smart contracts with a decentralized peer-to-peer network, which is honestly quite laughable.
It shouldn't even be a topic of conversation.
But when it comes to player v-player, why do you think video games are so popular?
If it is really just the player-v-player space...
People love to compete.
Why do you think we all sit down and watch sports on Sunday?
But they don't know they're competing.
That's the issue.
They think that they're friends.
They think they have a community.
Let me finish.
Let me go to something quickly before you respond to Wall Street Baby.
Kappi, I want to go to you because when you first messaged and said something on stage,
even me and the team kind of freaked out in the background.
Like, holy shit, we have a scammer coming on stage.
Immediately a perception was created.
And that Wall Street baby came said, hey, I've launched projects before.
They, I'm not hiding it.
My name is out there.
I've lost money on this project to prove legitimacy.
And I've been doxed heavily.
Which is a different story to, hey, this is a guy that keeps launching tokens and scamming people.
And it came out as a different story.
Is there something being missed and why these initial allegations made?
The reason I'm bringing it up, I usually avoid drama.
Because that kind of gets to the heart of the ecosystem.
It's just so much.
It's just so...
I wouldn't call it childish, but so much drama in the space
and allegations being made in some case legitimate, in some case not.
They could eventually destroy a project or cancel someone.
Again, some of it is legitimate, some of it is not.
And that's why I wanted to get into this one.
Yeah, so first of all, thank you for giving me an opportunity to respond.
And I just want to make one thing clear first, and I will answer that question directly, but I do want to say this.
Now, when I had spoken to your team and I had asked, are there any other projects coming on?
I was told Wall Street Baby was coming on.
I said, if they're coming on, I'm not coming on.
I was told that they weren't going to come on.
Last minute, I was told they were.
And I asked, because I respect that this is your platform, I didn't want to cause drama.
I don't like drama.
I asked...
hey, like, he might say something about me to try to debase me as he had historically.
Am I allowed to say anything if I feel as necessary?
And I was, yeah, I was permitted.
So I just want to make that clear.
I did not come here and try to.
No, no, I appreciate it.
Fair point.
Yeah.
Okay, anyways, to answer that.
Now, you see, a lot of this stuff is contextual, as you said.
But when I had found all of this out, I had spent a lot of days kind of compiling all
of this and making sure that I had archived, you know, absolute evidence before making
such a claim, even on Twitter, let alone on your spaces.
I still have all of it.
A lot of it is not posted on my account or hasn't been shared, which is why Roger sounds like he seems to be crying and reading off a script.
But yes, the most incriminating thing I have by far, because as I said, it's contextual, is a telegram data dump.
of a group, a telegram group chat, that for some reason, despite not including Roger,
includes a lot of the rest of his team, including Tony, Anthony.
And in there, you know, Anthony actually speaks to the fact that the crypto space
allows them, you know, to leverage basically the lack of regulation because even if they think that something is doomed or, you know, it's some bullshit that they came up with in a couple of days, it's there's not a lot of regulation, which is quote unquote not really their fault.
Therefore, they can go and they can do this as many times as they want until they succeed.
It doesn't matter how many people they deliberately or accidentally defraud along the way.
You would have to have a lot of money to burn half a million dollars, right?
As he was saying he did for Wall Street Baby and to not care.
And for me, as somebody, you know, I didn't grow up with a lot of money and I don't have that kind of money now.
I can tell you for a fact.
Nobody who doesn't have a shit ton of money
is ever going to do that.
It doesn't make sense.
Why not donate it?
I thought you were about philanthropy.
What are you donating to?
The burn address?
What are you talking about?
Dude, I just want to state that it's...
That is the most bullish thing you could have ever said for this community,
because the most bullish thing a community can have is fud.
So I thank you on behalf of every holder of this token for sending us to the fucking moon.
What a coach.
I just want to...
That is the weirdest.
What, one second.
Dude, he was supporting our project until he got pissed off at us.
Yeah, you know, you support them.
One second, guys.
He bought into the project.
He was part of the project.
I haven't got the Mubon.
I can't.
But guys, one second.
Man, I think, I think, I think we should do.
We should, I think.
We're going to watch all the senators and guests.
Let me make a joke.
All the senators and guests we're expecting next week
are probably going to cancel after this show.
Yeah, yeah.
For real.
We've lost all credibility.
It's a joke, guys.
It's a joke, guys.
It's a joke.
Go ahead.
Slaman, make your point.
Yeah, I want to make it clear to the audience what's happening.
And I can only judge you, this is my first crypto space I've been on, right?
We've had two people from the crypto industry, from the meme coin guys who came here to make a
week and show.
Who came to...
Well, I don't know what is official like usual.
But basically, we had two guys from the meme coin
trying to essentially pitch their idea.
And both of them had accusations
of essentially being part of at least three coins
that were dumped.
Obviously, they gave explanations.
I'm not saying they're guilty.
That's not what I'm about.
I'm not judging these guys.
I don't know them.
But what I'm saying is, and that just shows me that 100% of the people came have possibly dumped at least three coins.
And that means a lot of people have lost money, right?
And so if this is happening for the people to pitch, imagine how many people is happening to.
And so I get it's fun, it's banter.
But then the problem is no one's even consistent in what they're saying.
Some people are like it's fun.
Can you respond to my argument then?
Can you respond to my argument earlier then that these are like...
not newbies to the space, right?
Anybody who's buying
Cappy is not...
And again, we aren't here to help...
So look, just
Just think about the people who've come up.
They're all experts.
They let the leaders of their own coins.
And even they can't agree what is the purpose of the coin.
Some say it's for a community.
So maybe there's some loaner who wants to be part of a community
and is thinking we're in it together.
Other people are saying, no, it's for financial reasons.
And you actually dare to make money.
We've had two people on the stage who are basically pitched
and said it's for two different reasons.
Well, can I know the reason for it?
Proof, before you do, prove before you do,
Slaman, let me...
This is why we don't trust people with human PFs.
Go ahead, Prith.
Hey, I have a human.
Ridiculousness.
You have a human in your PFP.
It's just kind of like almost out of the frame.
Super helpful, FISA.
Guys, guys, that's something better saying.
Cement.
Don't trust a human PFP because they're like, basically, if you don't, if you have a
PSP, why you can identify.
I was hoping.
I was hoping.
I was hoping it'd make, Lala's official,
I was hoping it'd make a better argument than don't trust people.
Okay, okay, I have a real argument though.
Okay, honestly, guys, it's about the vibes.
Okay, and I'm really tired of us acting like grown-ass people
can't moderate their own wallets and they don't know that they're going into these shit coins
to spend money, not make money.
Like, let's just be honest.
Like, they're taking a gamble.
So what?
I don't really think that we're here to be the moderators of how people spend their money.
So let me ask you, let me ask a question.
Let me ask you a question.
Okay, let me, let me ask you a question.
And then I know Walshielbebe, you do want to respond.
But let me ask a question to the panel that's left as we kind of wrap up this place.
Should we?
So, so this is a debate we're having internally, a very heated debate because we've got DGENS in the company, non-DGens.
We work with, obviously, startups, which we should,
a big fan of Web 3 in Baymarket, Bull Market, I don't give a fuck.
Pretty confident of NFT, PFPs.
I've got one as a profile photo.
So I believe in that ecosystem.
Believe in Web 3 games significantly.
Meme coins.
This is a debate we're having.
It's always been a no.
Now, for the first time we're having a discussion
and whether we should get involved.
When I say get involved, I want Darnish to go first
because I want him to shit on me.
When we say get involved, Darnish,
we mean get into a project
and try to do what the experiment of Dosh coin is.
That means not sell, do the whole lockup tokens, et cetera,
and try the experiment of a decentralized project
building something.
Is that something even worth considering?
Can...
Can someone do the right thing with a meme coin?
You want to go first downish because I know you'll probably shit on the ID
and then we'll go to Borovic because I think it'll be more positive.
Borovic?
It just makes no sense.
It literally makes no sense.
Sorry, I was just messing with Mario for a second.
Ultimately, it makes no sense.
Businesses are built on solving a real problem.
All of this concept around, oh, we're just kidding around.
Yeah, you're just getting around until somebody gets hurt.
This is like legitimately people thinking that they're part of a community.
Sorry, sorry, I'll add to my question.
Sorry, Danish, but I'll add to my question.
So let's say you create a meme coin and just kind of,
to kind of have some point to the question.
Let's say create a meme coin, all right?
You don't, you know, you don't do all the shady shit.
You don't dump the tokens, everyone's docs, et cetera.
You do everything by the book.
And then you create a decentralized community.
I'm trying to simplify it for the audience
that's not in the crypto space.
You create a decentralized community.
And then the community starts to vote
on what they want to build next.
Similar to what some NFTs did.
Some NFTs started as a joke,
and now they're building entire multi-billion dollar ecosystems.
So going back to the example of a meme coin,
the community will vote
on what they want to do next.
You could have meetups, et cetera.
So the feeling of belonging is starting to create utility, very basic utility.
Then you create maybe access to certain events you run,
maybe access to a game you'd create.
So you're starting to create an ecosystem where it's same as a startup,
but instead of having a founder and a management team
and an executive team that owners shares,
so it's like a decentralized version of a startup.
I think that experiment makes sense.
I think it just needs...
Okay, that's a great point. Go ahead, please expand.
Governance is going to be a big issue.
I know this to be true.
There was a few D-Sai projects that have failed recently that failed because largely poor governance.
How do you think about decisions being made when they're pivotal decisions in a short amount of time?
And decentralized systems sometimes don't work.
So that's actually the biggest challenge with decentralized organizations.
Right.
And by the way, I think that someone's going to figure out the model, just like they figured out centralized organizations.
But right now, the governance structures, how decisions are made, and also how do you prevent collusion from specific users within this decentralized network?
What if there's centralized activity within a decentralized network?
There's no way...
Like little clusters of people that are working together to pump and dump, there's no way to do that in an effective way until you get big enough and you have enough, you know, reduced concentration of the people.
And so of the ownership.
And so the hard part here is governance.
Dr. Danish, have you ever bought a shit coin before?
Have you ever been in the, have you, do you know anything about it?
No, hell no. I will never buy a shit coin.
Okay, so...
Do you have wallet?
I appreciate all the outside perspectives that all of you guys are putting into this.
But as a person who lives this and breeds this, there's a whole different perspective...
From the inside that you guys don't know that I see every day.
And yes, from the outside, yes.
There is a lot of greed in this.
There is a lot of bad actors in this.
There is everything that you're saying, yes, there is a lot of pump and dumps.
All this shit that you're saying is true.
But to say that there's no intrinsic value,
to say that we're doing all this for no reason.
No, no, you all said there was no intrinsic value to the shit coins.
You all said.
No, I've made, no, Danish, I've made an argument that value could be created.
And I think I made a good argument.
The value is there.
The value of holding a shit coin, it's like being in a relationship with a girlfriend.
One day you're high.
You're in the honeymoon stage.
The green candle's there.
The price is going up.
Oh my God, dude.
Seriously.
Wait, can I say something, guys?
It's going down.
The price is going down.
Your girlfriend's mad at you.
It's the same thing.
I'm telling you.
So, coins is pure entertainment.
Nobody here has made.
Nobody here has made a good comparison of meme coins to Bitcoin, and I'm going to make one in favor of meme.
Oh shit, bro. Don't do it. What are you doing, bro?
I've made, oh, bro. Let me...
I spent six months diving into the white paper, diving into the institutions that actually control the Bitcoin mining network.
And I've come to a pretty good conclusion that most people, you know, most people that are Bitcoin maxis are claimed to be in the space, probably have never even read the white paper.
So I'm going to make this conclusion.
You know, a truly decentralized meme coin, one that was launched fairly, one that might just be about community building, you know, there is less hedge fund institutional control over that than there is the current Bitcoin network.
And I love Bitcoin just as much as I love meme coins.
So I can see both sides of it.
I can see both arguments.
But Bitcoin, to buy a commercial miner right now is $10,000, $5 to $10,000, depending on the model.
To mine profitably.
You couldn't do it at home.
You can't do it at home.
You have to set up, you know,
multimillion-dollar mining farms out in the desert
where you can make $50 to $200 million contracts
with the power company
and start mining under four cents a kilowatt hours but that's because securities but that's because
securities we can't compare the blockchain so bitcoin yeah yeah like i want i want to i'm gonna i'm gonna
i'm gonna interrupt you again again again's getting back to making money by the way i don't want to
be rude wall street baby but i'll make a point that it's supporting what you guys do and what
capi and others do so it's a good point it's a good time to interrupt while i'm doing that slay man
i want you go through the comments
You know the pinned tweet, Slimeon?
Just don't give me a thumbs down, bro.
Just easy.
I want to, can you go through the comments?
Find the coolest comment in the next, like, in 10 minutes time or five minutes time.
Choose the coolest comment in the thread that's pinned on my profile where we put all the thread and all that.
Because I promise a $1,000 giveaway.
Or choose maybe two or three comment.
However you like, I will give them away.
There's a thousand bucks to be giving away or maybe more.
Just choose comments.
We'll do giveaways.
Okay, Slaman, you choose it.
Enjoy, bro.
Just one comment.
How much you give, how much you're giving away to the people?
Yeah.
Oh, I said $1,000, but you know what you used to.
We know when we first started the show slam,
and I don't know if I told you.
The reason we blew up, you know how much we gave away in every show,
three times, twice or three times a week, 10K a show.
Plus we did all the marketing and shit.
It was like giving away a lot of money.
Yeah, we used to give a 10k a show, that's how the early days when we blew up is Romie's ID.
And then after me and Danish, and you didn't have to give away 10 bags of show.
Oh, bro.
That's well before.
That's fair.
Oh my God.
Yeah, bro.
Yeah, yeah.
Whoa, whoa.
Whoa.
No, well,
Well, Fiddle...
Let's go back to the point.
Let's go back.
Oh, shit.
When Fidji is hosting,
I just...
Fidji is hosting,
I have to get the whole marketing team
working to get the numbers.
It's tough.
But, yeah,
Darnish, you know,
we don't have to do any marketing
when you're hosting.
So, when Siaman's hosting,
I have to be there to babysit him.
Anyway, just go back to the point.
And what I and the argument down is, I want to go with you because you represent Wall Street and me and you can go back and forth on this.
What I see as value in meme coins and I can be crucified for saying this.
Because I didn't see it in the NFT community until it's too late.
Or it's never too late, really.
It's still way too early.
But it took me a while to see it in the NFT community.
I'm talking about NFT PFP is not the concept of digital ownership.
And then I realized the value of community and how you can, it's like a new layer to build a business on.
I'm not saying it's a strategy that would work.
Decentralizing the building of an organization hasn't been really tested.
You can say it's been tested through the concept of democracy, but a business hasn't been really tested until now, until the last few years.
And it seems to be working.
Bitcoin being the most obvious examples,
Dogecoin being a more relevant example
to what we're discussing now.
And, you know, Yuga is still centralized,
but some of these PFPs that are more decentralized
than Yuga being good examples.
I don't want to mention them
because I don't want to be shilling projects.
Now, when it comes to meme coins,
I see the same concept apply.
The problem is it's being tainted
by those pump and dumpers.
It's being tainted by those people
doing the wrong thing,
printing money and then disappearing.
That's the issue.
The concept I like,
But it's as the NFT community was tainted by all these pump and dumpers that DJN community that only cared about making money.
And now you've got the people that are still building left.
I see the same thing happen with meme coin.
And that's why it's a discussion I don't mind having.
And I think that discussion makes sense.
I just don't understand the differentiation.
I just don't understand the differentiation of one coin from the other.
I don't understand why any of it makes it.
It's sort of like you're like, oh, I want that one.
And that's it.
There's no, it's not very good.
It's not very good.
It's a team.
Yeah, it's a team.
It's a team.
It's a community.
It's a story.
It's points to it.
Same when you look at projects.
Mario, I wanted to push back a little bit of the talk earlier around.
around well you're not one you're not from the communities you don't do this every day you know
ultimately the problem is that this does not it's not that we're just looking from the outside
is that intrinsically it does not make sense and that's the issue and this is but anyone
this is a stupid anyone brover anyone that made that argument and fidgeti i think you made the
argument that's the stupidest argument i can't remember who did it i'll tell you why i'll tell you why stupid but
You need the people like Slyman and Danish.
Slyman represents the finance.
Anyone that's anti-Wall Street, et cetera,
that's where the fucking money is.
Crypto was anti-Waltrow until Wall Street money came in.
So these people need to understand the value
and get through the scams.
And then Slyman is the average Joe.
Is this average guy, the dumb guy
that doesn't know much about anything?
This is what Slyman represents.
So him understanding this...
is very important as well.
And just shitting on them saying,
hey,
you're not in the community.
That's exactly why we need to hear from them.
We need to hear from the Wall Street guy
and we need to hear from the dumb guy as well.
Hey, I've got the dumb.
One thing, Dr. Danish?
I have the dumb guy part figured out pretty well if I could just present that case real quick.
Yeah, please do so.
I'm a cartoon rapper.
I'm not a, you know, I'm not a finance guy or a macro guy.
But, you know, I've seen, I've been on both sides.
You know, I was early to board apes.
And I have a crypto punk that I built a music career around.
Okay. Because my whole thing was there's 3,500 Cryptopunk owners, you know, back in early 2021.
None of them are doing anything with the IP. I can be the first one to be the Cryptopunk rapper.
I only need 1,000 fans to fulfill the 1,000 true fan theory and make a living as an artist.
Pepe has 108,000 holders right now.
And it has millions and millions, tens of millions or hundreds of millions or billions of people
that love Pepe and understand that it's a symbol that stands for love and peace dating back 18 years.
So I'm seeing artists that realize if there's 108,000 holders of this token,
if I can get 1% of them to like what I'm doing, that's literally a really, that's just a really valuable revenue stream.
And I think if you have any belief at all in memes, the power of memes,
that can mean a lot when it compounds with all these artists getting behind it.
And I don't expect Wall Street people, you know, or even OG bitcoins, like all of them to understand this.
But that's my perspective as an artist.
Yeah, could I jump in? I just want to add to that because Pepe is used to express emotion.
Like people express emotion in group chats, telegram chats, whatever. They send Pepe memes.
There's like a billion different Pepe memes. The matter how you feel, you will send one of the memes.
And I've been in space since 2017. And Pepe has been one of the, like, the best ways to express your emotion in crypto.
Always. So it only made sense for the token to go as high as it did. And what you were asking me earlier, Mario, about like,
Will this still be valuable?
Will it still maintain its market cap, you know, in a year or two?
99.99% of meme coins won't.
Dogecoin does Bitcoin's the first.
And obviously the IPs used everywhere.
I mean, like all over TikTok in 2021 to onboard so many new participants, right?
And, um,
With Pepe, I mean, because it's already been so widely used in crypto, it only makes sense.
You think people are going to stop using Pepe memes?
No, they're going to be using them.
Even if the coin drops to $100 million mark cap or lower, even if they go to a million mark cap, it doesn't matter.
People will still keep using pepe memes.
And that is exactly why the coin will still be, you know, bought and traded.
No matter if the volume goes down or not, eventually when the bull market comes around, I, I, like, strongly believe it'll, you know, surpass its all-time high.
I love everything he said.
I just don't like that last comment,
but I think it's a good argument,
good explanation of where you guys come from
and you're deeper in the community than me,
who the fuck am I to speak?
So appreciate those final words, man.
Slaman, you chose, by the way,
Slaman's my boy, co-host, a good friend.
So when I call him dumb,
I mean it from the bottom of my heart.
So Slaman, you chose the winners, bro?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, there was only one winner, right?
No, no, not as a speaker on stage,
and I know you're going to say you.
I'm saying comments to win money.
And don't choose your own comment, bro.
Yeah, yeah, but what I mean is you only want one, isn't it?
Because I had...
I whittled it down to two, and I'm going to let...
Just fine. Two is fine, bro. Choose the two.
Who are they? And why?
No, well, one was a bit of a joke one, really.
So one said...
Just you know, before you mentioned them...
No, no, no, no, no, bro.
No, you're not going to choose, fuck this shit.
You're going to mention it, and I'm going to get cancelled for not giving them money,
just because they said you're the beast.
Look, after the space, you've got to choose five comments that you think are worth winning money
because they said something interesting in the comment, okay, Slamant,
and it's not allowed to speak about you or Darnish.
Okay.
Anyway, guys, really appreciate this a fucking epic space.
I was really worried on how this will go.
No, no, I've got one.
I've got one.
I think it's good to announce.
We do, so we're gonna be doing,
we're considering doing like, you know,
we do these pitches on a regular basis.
The projects that pitch today,
Not the two meme coins.
Everything else,
we're projects we're invested in,
we're working with.
They're all on my timeline.
We'll probably get it mentioned
in one of the future spaces as well
because we want to support them.
The two meme coins are that pitched as well.
I want to give them credit for coming up
and being honest.
I think both pitches weren't better than I expected.
They were both honest about it.
You know,
I've got my concerns.
We're not investing in any.
But I'm open to having further discussions with both.
As much as Slyman or Danish, when I hate it, I'm open to these discussions, and I'm open to better understand the space.
So Fiji, Lala, and others will be hosting spaces on the Roundtable account, which I'll be supporting and co-hosting as usual.
We'll be having more of these discussions.
We'll be having more pitches and we'll continue being active in the space.
I know we took it two weeks.
Can Slemen talk right now?
no I'm muted in bro
he can't talk
yeah this is fantastic
okay but so just
and you can't talk either
I just remove GSCOL host
just to continue with the point
we'll continue having those discussions
Fuck sake, Fiji.
What was I saying then?
Oh, the shit tank.
I want to do pitches for meme coins.
We're considering it.
Call it like shit tank,
where it's going to be the best of the worst
and I'm being so critical of them
because I need to be careful.
I'm really worried about the space.
But we're open to having more of these discussions
if Fiji and Lala are open to it.
They're going to run those shit tank pitches.
Okay.
But yeah, as IBC for now,
we're gonna keep investing in startups
that build projects that we understand as any VC.
But we're looking at meme coins with an open mind
and if we ever wanna make a move,
we'll be public about it
and we'll hopefully do it right
and prove Daunish and Slyman wrong,
that there is utility to meme coins
and it can be done right.
Otherwise, for anyone launching a meme point,
I hope you do the right thing.
I hope you don't fucking dump on the next dump person
on the next fool, dump on the retail market
and I hope that anyone that does dump
that one of the things that make me happy
when I see a regulator is crack down on you guys,
the dumpers, the fucking scammers,
when you do get an SEC letter.
And the people that do the right thing
will be the ones that will make,
that will make the fucking money in the next pool market
and not have to go to another country and hide.
So that's my final quick words.
I appreciate you all for coming on.
And we'll continue doing those spaces.
Tomorrow's space, I don't know what we're going to discuss.
Saman, do you know what we're going to do tomorrow?
And this is probably the tensions in Ukraine are getting pretty concerning.
We do have another crypto space with Brad, Garlandinghouse.
Some people told me to get, Fiji, who did you tell me to get?
I'm so bad.
Yeah.
Who said?
Michael Taylor.
Okay, yeah.
We had me, Scott, Scott Melka, had Michael Seller on his show, which I co-hosted a few
weeks ago.
We'll bring Michael Seller again if we do a future crypto show with Brad Garlinghouse to have
a bigger discussion on the ecosystem.
I do want to understand Bitcoin further, Bitcoin Ordinoles, BRC tokens.
I don't know if we'll host that show on my account or the account, the Roundtable account
that we usually do crypto shows on.
Okay.
But it was a great discussion.
Appreciate you all.
And for anyone from outside the crypto space,
tomorrow we'll either cover the Ukraine war
because things are getting pretty heated there
according to our team, according to AllSource.
All the tensions between Palestinians and Israelis
because this is getting pretty concerning.
Love you all.
Thank you so much for joining
and appreciate the co-hors and everyone else
for making this happen.
Bye everyone.
Speaker
πΉπππ
from
BUZZ
