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Bitcoin: What's Next For The Ecosystem 🟧⚡
Recorded: March 26, 2025 Duration: 0:56:39Space Recording
Full Transcription
Way this coming up
Soaring hide
Leap into a state
Call in life
Say you need to see it
Oh say you want to try
Say you have it home
Say you're gonna
Once you get the beat
Once you have the ball
Says it's gonna be
you have called
one step back to leave
now is your love
why would you believe
until it's gone
Feeling out the light is softly saying
Getting out my right
And you say you need to see that and say you want to truth
Say you have a heart of you say it for you
Once you get the feeling
Once you have the ball
Says it's got to be a girl
call
once you're
back
you're leaving
now is
your blood
why want
you believe
in it
tell it's
you're
once you get the feeling
once you
back from wall
it's a thing
one step back
you're leaving
jumping
after wall
why want you
believe
in until it's
gone
You gave to me
All right
Stay here
You gave to me
all I know
I will stay here
I will
I have got you
a man
once you get a guy
man I've got you
watch out
once you get it
Once you got for more
Says it's gonna heal
You won't make the calls
Once that's like you leave
Now is wrong
Why won't you believe
So let's go
Once you get to feel
Once you got for all
Now it gets a little
It ain't on the floor
Once that's like you need
Jumped out of
What you need is.
I'm telling you for.
GMGM everybody.
Welcome back to another banger show with Rune Mine.
Cross-chain app to launch and trade tokens on Bitcoin.
Roons and Salana. We've got a bunch of bang-a-guess speakers to dive into the conversation today as we talk about Bitcoin and what's next for the ecosystem. We have Omnity Network with us already. OmniChane Hub with BTC, EF, Soul, and...
App chains, L2s and more.
And we've got Jeff in the co-host spot with me today as well.
Nine-year crypto DGEN, BD Lead at Mine Labs, converging Bitcoin and Solana.
And we've got Lindy with us today.
NFT creator, web-free enthusiast, Discord community builder.
Can't wait to jump into this one.
Before we do, though, Jeff, handing the mic over to you.
You excited for this one?
What on Earth is next for Bitcoin?
outside of these sexy wizards that we might be seeing all over the timeline that nobody wants.
It's a funny thing.
I think there is so much on the line for Bitcoin coming up.
I genuinely think anyone that's not paying attention to the space
doesn't understand the significance and the importance of
what is possible when things start to advance in the Bitcoin space?
Like, you know, we've seen the early stages of Bitcoin L2s,
we've seen the early stages of, you know, projects like ourselves that are taking
Bitcoin assets and they're making them more usable on other blockchains.
But we are seeing functionality coming to Bitcoin.
Like I can't tell you the amount of interesting projects that I talk to
that like we're solving it in this way.
we're going to give you a runes based experience with Bitcoin smart contracts and like all of these different things.
And right now it's really hard to do kind of decipher between what is a nice idea and what is like genuinely a game changing.
breakthrough that is coming.
And I can tell you from someone in my space
talking to all of these projects,
it's quite hard because there's so many,
and there's so many interesting concepts,
so many interesting ideas that are coming to this space.
And like just seeing it from my perspective,
It is such an obvious move and such an obvious ecosystem to be a part of over the next one,
two, three years.
You know, like I'm coming around to this idea that, you know, maybe the cycles carry
on the way they've been carrying on or maybe they don't.
You know, it's very hard to know, but especially if they don't.
then I know exactly where I want to be over the next couple of years.
And even if they do carry on the way that they've been going,
then in the next two to three years,
we're going to see some incredible innovations coming from this space.
And I just don't really understand anyone that's not trying to tap in,
plug in, be a part of this one way or another.
It doesn't matter if you're a Bitcoin-based project.
If you're based on Salama, based on NIR, based on ICP,
or anyone who has some now native networking connection to the Bitcoin network,
then you're a fool if you're not jumping into this space because we're cooking on gas.
And you know, this is the future of Bitcoin we're talking about.
So I'm super hyped to see what comes from the next.
Again, like, you know, six to six to 54 months.
You know, it's so hard to put time for more things.
But all I can say is it's going to be fire, whatever's coming.
Yeah, dude, look, I am nothing but excited. I'm definitely sharing the vibes here on in terms of, look, I don't know if the market's going up, down, sideways, is if it's going to do a 180, 360 or a 720. But whatever is going to happen, Bitcoin is going to be super fun to be a part of the history over the next year, over the next.
century, decade, somewhere in between.
It's going to be a fun time to be building here.
It's going to be a fun time to be watching what has been built here.
So yeah, dude, I completely agree.
Great way to start the conversation today.
A little bullish talk.
Not in terms of the up-only price action, but in terms of
what on earth we're building on this chain and what this chain actually means in terms of the
history and the long term of the space. I'm super bullish on it all, especially when we hop on
shows like this. Speaking of hopping on shows like this, into the block has just hopped up,
get intelligent access to defy, market intelligence platform and advanced technology.
Defi Tools. Thank you so much for joining us. We're going to dive into it in one second. Before we do,
let's give you guys a little TLDR about how we run these shows. So if you've not been on a show
with myself, Jeff, or Rue, mine before, something very important to understand is we go for
an organic show on these spaces. How do we get to an organic show is the really important thing for
our speakers to be listening to right now.
which is there's a heart plus symbol, bottom right hand corner of your screen,
there's a hand raised function, far right hand side to that.
Basically, if there's any point in time, you guys want to come in with a question,
a take, whatever it might be, get that hand up in the ear,
I'll get the mic straight over to you.
And you really do get to lead this conversation today.
You're the thought leaders, you're building in this space,
want to hear what you want to say.
Outside of that, we do have one other incentive, and it's a big one. We do have jackpoints.
Now, jackpoints are the most worthless point system in the crypto space. They have no tangible value whatsoever.
But you do get 10 jack points every time you raise your hand and contribute to the conversation today.
And at the end of the show, we will tally all those points together.
We'll see who comes out on top and they will win.
Absolutely nothing for doing so, literally nothing.
Outside of my love and admiration for just being a dope guest speaker,
a dope panelist who contributed a ton to the show.
But that really is it.
And hopefully a bunch of follows from our listeners.
If you guys are liking the content,
if you guys are liking the takes from our panel,
please do feel free to follow them.
Likes, retweets, all that good stuff is also a great way to show support for this space.
That's it.
That's the TLD.
It wasn't that.
Actually, it was definitely a too long, didn't read.
Hopefully you did listen, but I hope you guys are going to have a great show with us today.
I know it's going to be a fun one.
Listeners again, likes, retweets, all that good stuff as we get kicked off.
Look, Jeff, back over to you here.
What's next for the ecosystem?
Like, give me some tangibles here.
What is...
In the short to medium turn, what is on the radar of Bitcoin builders?
Like, is there anything specifically whilst you're building here that you're like,
okay, this thing could happen next, or this thing, I'm thinking Opcat,
I'm thinking about a couple other things where people are genuinely thinking
there could be some major changes to Bitcoin.
Yeah, you know, I'm super bullish, yeah.
We've talked about this many times in the past.
I'm super bullish on Opcat.
I'm super bullish on any kind of change.
For Bitcoin, personally, from the situation and the standpoint that I come from in the world,
I'm very bullish on innovation on Bitcoin at the code level.
I believe from my, you know, it's very hard.
People have different opinions depending on where they come from and what their reason is
for being part of.
Bitcoin. Some people, it is this ironclad store of value and something that doesn't change over time and
the slow methodical change of things is important. And I fully respect those people, but it is also a
decentralized permissionless network. And I very much.
in my personal situation, I'm very bullish on the progression of Bitcoin and how we can enable more functionality and how we can enable more utility from this network.
So, you know, I'm super bullish on Opka and seeing more functionality come to the base chain.
I will tell you what, like, it's something that is kind of resonating more.
and more with me along the way is the ways that you can hack Bitcoin.
You know, if you're talking about rooms and you're talking about ordinals and you're
talking about all these other things, these are very much hacks built on top of the
Bitcoin network.
They are not designed by the core team.
They're not designed by
the core developers. These are these are instruments that people have developed over time to
interact with the Bitcoin network in a new way and a new fashion and you know, I think seeing Casey
come back just the other day and talk about all of the the new features that they're bringing to
ordnals. Like I'm very much an NFT and an ordinary enjoyer. I wish that I was as
as some of the things that Casey talks about.
Like I keep thinking to myself,
I'm spending too much time with this work.
I just got to get in on the art
and get in on the culture
and really fucking get deep with that.
You know, I've obviously got my wisdom and everything.
But I think we are a real turning point where there is some
interesting developments being made by people on this network who are not trying to change the base layer.
Like at the end of the day, if you can create a valid, usable adjustment to how people interact with the base layer without changing it,
without creating a new paradigm for people who's
main interest is in having the store of value, the dependency, everything else, you know,
like I'm really bullish on Opcats and everything that comes there, but I actually genuinely
think the innovation comes when you can change the network.
without actually changing the underlying code and without actually risking anyone's assets.
You know, Rooms don't, other than congestion on the network, which really at this point in time should be considered a good thing in my personal opinion, you know, when it comes to security budget, I don't think the.
you know, congesting the network and using too much of the block space up should be seen as a negative thing.
I think it should be seen as a very positive thing.
So I'm really intrigued when, you know, Casey came out and he invented Rooms.
We're now looking at how we can integrate near, how we can integrate Solana.
Other projects are looking at ICP.
And it's this kind of integrations that actually really excited me the most on how we can change Bitcoin,
without affecting the base layer.
And I think for a lot of people,
that's probably the most important way
to interact with Bitcoin is not to have
some consensus opinion of what's the best
next move for Bitcoin, but to do something and say,
hey, the way I do it doesn't affect what you guys do.
You can carry on how you have always carried on.
You can use
Bitcoin in whichever way is best for you. But we're going to do this. We're going to,
we're going to bring our onto Bitcoin. We're going to bring Bitcoin assets like ruins onto
other blockchains. We're going to do all of these other things. And personally for me,
the most exciting bit is seeing the way that we can bring Bitcoin to other people without
forcing anyone out of their original position and hopefully onboarding them over time. Maybe
they don't want to be a part of it right now, but in the future, if they say,
look, we didn't interfere with the way that you want to interact with Bitcoin, but here's the
optionality to do more. I think that's super important. Yeah, Jeff, absolutely agree here. I do think,
look, there's Bitcoin Maxis who thought that Ordnals were an attack on the chain. There's Bitcoin
Maxis who definitely don't like any other chains for similar reasons. And then you've got the
people actually building here and just genuinely open to saying, look,
This thing was built a while ago.
Some stuff may have changed.
Some stuff may be better actually as a utility off the initial chain.
But as long as it all comes back to that mother chain, then that's what's important.
And honestly, I think I fall into that camp.
I'm definitely a little bit more multi-chain.
But just Bitcoin being the core on which all my other beliefs stem from.
And Bitcoin also being the core for, you know,
The asset that I want to hold the most of, the asset that I think is going to appreciate the most.
And also the thing that I think has changed the course of history or honesty, like I'm getting a little romantical here.
But definitely, definitely a big, big thing.
We've got Omnity and Into the Block with the hand raisers already for those jack points.
Love to see it.
Let's get them.
I go to Omnity first and then we'll go over to Into the Block.
Hey, Sheldon behind the Omidy account here. So I've been around for a long time.
That sometimes means that I dredge up some old arguments that we used to have or at least try to learn from them, right?
That's why we used to have those old fights.
So if you look at what Lightning Labs is doing these days, you can see some of the future that we may expect on NIR or on Solana or on other blockchains that want to take up a more meaningful Bitcoin program or Bitcoin focus.
So I was initially against the Lightning Network.
I wasn't a big fan of turning, you know, this like universal asset into lots of little segmented liquidity channels.
And there's certainly benefits to Lightning.
But if you look at their journey, it's just recently arrived at stablecoins.
They were trying to manage a network where you had, you know, Bitcoin being useful for businesses, which it is.
It's incredibly useful for Cash App and Square especially.
It's a great place for Lightning as a use case.
But the larger expansion of Bitcoin and other assets, whether that's Bitcoin and Stable Coins or Bitcoin and Rooms or other tokenized assets, that stuff is still really a struggle for them.
It's still a difficult market for them to meet.
It's still difficult to make frameworks that are not too wide and not too narrow that meet what the market wants for that or what they think.
is sensible as the next step in technology.
So instead of trying to establish one institution that is the institution for working on something,
shouldn't we be having lots of little central points, i.e. decentralization for,
hey, there's five different Bitcoin L2s.
There's, you know, five different other popular mechanisms that people are going to use to transport
Bitcoin around like chain abstraction and, you know, other secondary tooling.
So I think we're getting to a much healthier place with that now, and I'll ramble on about some stuff on the base layer in a little bit.
But I think that especially with a theory.
being challenged on the value of the L2s that didn't inherently bring value back to the,
geez, bring value back to the L1.
That's a really good lesson learned for us in Bitcoin to say, okay, we are, you know,
expanding the functionality of Bitcoin now, we're learning lessons, you know, how can we be
smart about this and, you know, maintain value?
Like, we'll talk about where the yield comes from in a little bit, you know,
but we have to be able to approach that part of the conversation, right?
So yeah, into the block. If you want to take it or Jack, you want to be the selector, be my guess.
But that's the piece I want to inject briefly.
Now, Sheldon, really appreciate it. And yeah, we've just the fantastic take. Look, this is the fun thing about having shows like this with builders who've been in the space a little while.
Through history and the context of that history, you can educate and show how far we've come, but also give a bit of context for the people who haven't.
been there through it all. And I think that really does paint a better picture when we talk about
the evolution of Bitcoin and how it can't just stay the same only through the people who've
watched it evolve. And it has been slow. Don't get me wrong. It has been slow. And I think that's a
benefit. I think that is definitely...
a feature, not a bug.
We needed to be slow because this thing is, you know,
basically the future.
So we need to be very careful with how we handle that and adapt it.
But it does mean that we've had some incredibly cool stuff come from that.
And we've done it.
in a pace that everybody can, you know, feel comfortable with, I think is a big thing here
because people are holding the asset that's tied to all of this. So I think that's a big difference
between evolution more broadly and with Bitcoin is the evolution also comes with like a financial
stake. So it definitely has new proponents to it for that reason. And into the block,
your hand is raised. Would love to hear you'll take on all of this.
Yeah, of course. So one, the argument that was brought up, right, the Bitcoin Maxis versus
versus people that want to have sort of Bitcoin Defi. And it's a, so one important thing to
keep in mind is the main point of the, let's say the Maxis is you have Bitcoin security,
which is the highest level of cryptographic security that we have in our industry today.
Do you need that security to secure images of cats?
Right?
That's a big question because a lot of people seem to think so, but not because they think
they need that security, but because they want to have those options on the Bitcoin network.
They want to be able to have Bitcoin Defi, right?
So the obvious solution is one of the many solutions that have been proposed, right?
There's layer 2s that take some of this load of the main network.
One of the developments that I actually find super interesting, talking about things that actually do need securing of this super secure cryptographic proof.
is like Bitcoin staking as a way to do that.
So where a project can actually utilize the security of the Bitcoin network
to secure their project without having to create their own blockchain or things like that.
I think that's a really interesting development.
And I can see a structure like that being used to secure things in real companies everywhere.
Yeah, heavy, hard agree here.
And look, there's tons of different directions from the initial takes of our speakers that we could...
now dive into a little further.
I do just want to say we're 23 minutes into the conversation and it has been flying by.
So listen, as if you have been enjoying this conversation, likes, retweets, all the good stuff.
Let's get more people in here to enjoy it.
Also, if you've liked any of the individual takes on the show, definitely give the legends a follow up on stage.
Jeff, your hand is raised.
I would love to hear your thoughts on that and where you feel the conversation's going to go next.
Yeah, you know, I think one of the most interesting right now. So it's kind of interesting when we talk about Bitcoin staking. Because personally, I think a super interesting and innovative move is having stable coins on Bitcoin. You know, we're personally partnered with.
Dukeat was with friends with America and seeing the evolution of stable coins on Bitcoin.
To me, like, I don't know if it's just me, but when I talk to people and I see the
institution and adoption of, we've been discussing a lot as a team, like what,
what is the next move forward?
We've obviously been focusing on Bitcoin innovation,
Rooms innovation because that's kind of the area that we're focusing.
And we're like, how can we expand this?
And we're like, well, you know, what is the real breakaway use cases of crypto right now?
Honestly, it's Bitcoin, it's stable coins.
And then it's kind of the cross chain functionality that allows you to interact with these different blockchains.
We all understand or anyone should understand that the future is multi-chain.
The future is honestly, probably progressively more chains as it gets cheaper and easier to launch more chains.
More people are going to be...
launching their own personalized roll app, roll chain, whatever you want to call it,
where the chain is specified to whatever use case they have.
But in the meantime, like stable coins is a very, very clear opportunity for the world to adopt.
We, you know, we could see so much of the world moving on to a US dollar stable coin.
Now you imagine if that US dollar stable coin is backed by physical Bitcoin,
like that is a huge and interesting opportunity.
And then, you know, from our point of view, we're looking at like,
how can we take that Bitcoin back stablecoin, take it to Solana, to these other chains,
where people are actually trading
regularly and utilizing different things and they're paying you know myself i i use camino i
i borrow money every now and then i i pay it back i use i use a coupon sites where i can buy
things in the real world with my crypto but i can only do that from salon i'm not realistically
i'm not doing it from bitcoin sometimes you can pay with bitcoin but it's much cheaper much more
convenient to do it from salana so i think the stable coins
the stable coin side and seeing kind of stable coins and other things like that, evolving on Bitcoin is super interesting.
But then when you kind of look further out, you realize that actually imagine if we could just do this kind of with Bitcoin,
have Bitcoin staking, have more things denominated in Bitcoin and realizing that this is probably the future and
having staking solutions and purchasing solutions in the real world.
huge benefits to a lot of people that hold this asset and have been holding this asset for a very long time.
Always love hearing how passionate you get on the show, Jeff.
And honestly, same goes to all of our speakers.
Like, look, it takes a lot of guts and it takes a lot of vision to build on Bitcoin.
I still think even today, there's still a lot of unknowns in terms of where the regulation is going to come out, where the build itself is going to come out.
So I think it really does take individuals like yourself to just go all in.
and push forward with this stuff.
I love hearing these takes about like your specific vision
and how, yeah, look, not one vision here is going to compete with another.
Like, Bitcoin is big enough.
Like, they definitely do think that there is this thing that, look, if it's good for Bitcoin,
it will succeed.
And if it isn't, it won't.
It's really going to be that simple, I think.
When you really fundamentally put it all down, like if it succeeds, it's a positive.
If it doesn't, it won't succeed.
But into the block, your hand is raised with love to hear your take on this.
Yeah, I thought it could be interesting to share some data since that's what we're good at, right?
So talking about stable coins, it's interesting to consider what the kind of an opportunity this could be for Bitcoin because stable coins have undoubtedly been like the killer app of this year or the most recent years.
It's the one segment in crypto that has seen pretty much consistent growth.
Even in the in the bear market like volumes were still really quite high.
And we're talking about, for example, last month, combined stable coin volumes were over a trillion, right?
So that's an immense, immense amount of capital moving around to exchanges from exchanges between people.
So this is going to be a massive opportunity.
And another data point that I'd like to bring up, which is related to what we were talking about before.
So, you know, Bitcoin Defi is there appetite for something like that, right?
I like to take this as an indicator of interest, which is how much of the Bitcoin has been tokenized in other chains, which is currently about 1.14%.
It doesn't sound like a lot, but it is quite a lot. So it's like over 1% of the supply.
is being tokenized on other change for Defi.
And then specifically, it's interesting to see that like a year ago,
that was just 0.8%.
So there's a consistent growth here.
And I think we'll see that growth continue.
Yeah, they are crazy figures when you really, really think of it and you think of the actual
value that is tied to it. I love a little bit of data and stats as well. So massive shout out
into the block there. So I don't think we've got names yet. So for anyone who hasn't provided
a name, feel free on the next one. So give me your name. And I will introduce you by that name.
And also the project still. Don't worry. I still give you full project titles as well.
Look, guys, fantastic start to the conversation. Stake Stone, we haven't heard from you much yet.
So I'd love to get the mic and the...
sort of second part of this conversation over to you next. I think the big question for a lot of
people is how Bitcoin is reacting in terms of the financial side. Like right now, it seems
incredibly pegged to stocks and still risk on assets, like very, very much so in terms of
you look at like both of these things together, they're moving in basically parallels.
Is that going to continue to be the case?
Like from your perspective, with everything that we're building here, with this idea that
governments are going to come in and maybe take a bit more of that percentage away and how
they think we've got ETFs, we've got tons more regulation and stuff coming, is this something
that when you're building on Bitcoin that you foresee to continue to be the case?
Will it always just sort of align with the market?
Will it play out like a bit of a stock?
Or is it going to Depeg at some point?
I would love to hear your take on this to start.
Stake Stone, do we have you?
Maybe why we haven't heard from them so far.
Oh, no, here we go.
Yeah, we got you.
We got you.
Sorry, I couldn't unmute earlier.
I don't know what was strong with it.
Oh, no, there's a ton of bugs going around.
Do not worry.
It is like the unmute and the mute, especially have been bugging quite hard ever since
Yvonne decided to run America.
So the question is basically around Bitcoin and the financial ties now and specifically on that,
how it is going to evolve in the future in terms of how it reacts to the stock market.
Because I think a lot of people are going to have that question if they own Bitcoin,
if they're building on Bitcoin.
But specifically, do you feel that Bitcoin is going to continue to...
run and work in the way where it sort of is parallel to the stock market.
And if the financial side takes a hit, Bitcoin is going to take a hit.
Or do you feel in the long term as a builder that there will be a moment where it's sort of
deep eggs from a risk on asset and acts a little bit more like it's, you know, it's scarce sort of.
I think the vision maybe that it first sort of taken.
Got it.
Yeah.
So I think personally I have seen, you know, Bitcoin go like opposite of the, the
the traditional markets action in the US back in what 2020 2020 I feel like in like the in 2024
it has pretty much gone intended as the traditional stock markets and also like you know I think
Bitcoin is so here to stay that's that is so why sticks don't build a you know a U-bearing asset
of Bitcoin on EVM so that we can extract the EU from the EVN ecosystems as well.
I think these are some of the things that we think that, you know, like if we are able to use the Bitcoin liquidity to earn you for,
whether it's for the institutions or for the Bitcoin users out there, that would be a big step for many, many different ecosystems.
Yep.
Yeah, fantastic TEE, definitely agree.
Jeff, Mike, over to you.
Yeah, you know, I think there is, I see Bitcoin specifically, but also obviously
crypto is kind of like this two-place bet where right now they act as risk on assets.
we see them move as you say you you basically answered the question very eloquently yourself
during it like we have seen them move very much in tandem we see uh m2 money supply
it slowed and we see the bitcoin price follow with the period after it and we've seen it being
very reactive i think more so than maybe ever before due to the amount of and you know like
There's a lot of speculation in this industry and you never truly know what Israel or not.
But we basically know there is Middle Eastern countries buying.
We now know that there is the American government holding theirs and looking at different ways that they can buy this asset.
We know that there are many, many other countries from Bhutan to
Al Salvador to lots of South America and all these other countries who are buying.
Like so for me like the way the Bitcoin moves with the dishes for North Stole
market kind of had this two-prong approach where it's like one I believe inflation will
continue and I believe countries have continued to print money until the point where it
where all assets go up.
Two, I believe there is a dislocation point that is coming sooner and sooner where where Bitcoin will move in a completely different manner to the way traditional assets are moving.
And people will see the over inflation of their assets purely due to the devaluation of their dollars of their local currency.
So, you know, for us again, you know, I remind we build Bitcoin technology.
Is it the most hype and the, you know, it's not the newest abstract delay or whatever
additional L2 or L3 or whatever layer that people are currently hyping for?
But for us, it's such a simple solution where it's like we believe that Bitcoin is in a position
where not only does it follow the devaluation of the dollar as in.
the asset goes up over time, but also we are coming to an inflection point by governments,
institutions, pension funds, everyone is realizing that this asset is useful.
And at the same time, people are realizing that this asset can be used in
surprising new ways that were not initially thought of during kind of the creation or the development over the last five, ten years.
And I think that adds a huge, a huge layer of support to like what we're doing over the long run.
And it makes us super bullish for what we're going to do.
Like we're going to keep building this.
If we have to say the cycles carry on and say this is the end of the cycle,
and we have to wait two, three years.
If we wait two, three years, we're going to be going into the most
in our personal opinion, the kind of mania adoption of crypto.
And in the meantime, there's the possibility that we decouple in the meantime,
and we go into this mania in one year, six months, one year, two years.
You know, like it's timing markets is super, super difficult.
And you know, unless you're a professional at doing it, then it's not something most people should do.
But seeing the future of what something is possible, then like,
you're a fool if you don't see what's kind of coming for Bitcoin and the Bitcoin
because there's some and crypto in the lodge.
Like, you know, we're very bullish on lots of other cryptos.
But at the same time, betting on Bitcoin and the future of Bitcoin is such an easy maneuver.
Yeah.
Look, again, Jeff, this is just vibes, dude.
You bring the vibes to the show.
I think realistically, we're just so on the same page here.
I think.
Just look, there's 21 million of them.
There's only ever going to be 21 million of them.
And governments now want some.
Friggin' hedge funds wants them.
Black Rock wants a ton.
Like, there's just a lot of stuff going on here.
Get it now.
Like, this is not financial advice.
This is just me talking to myself.
on the show, get as much of it as you can possibly get right now,
never sell any of it, find ways to leverage it,
and that's what we're hearing from people on the show today,
and find ways to continue to be involved in how it is being built.
And work out how to get more of it.
And work out how to get more of it.
Do do something interesting with it to the point where you can get more of it.
You know, this is this is very much what we're doing.
We're focused on how can we make it interesting and useful and then get more Bitcoin from it?
Like that is the end goal.
exactly dude exactly and yeah look i i think fundamentally that's where everyone's head should be at right now i
think that's where all heads are at right now i can see omnity giving us a bunch of emojis and with the handraise as well
so i would love to hear from omnity on this
So I think there's a, you know, there's like a macro discussion that we anticipated.
And I wanted to bring some salt and some sugar to that because, you know, for many years,
we were hoping that governments would not get a hold of Bitcoin.
And if you go back and look at Bitcoin Talk.org when Satoshi was still active on the forum,
you can see that he anticipated...
ASIC miners, you know, specialized hardware miners being something normal in 2040.
You know, you did not think that we were going to get this far this quickly.
But there's a, there's, I think this kind of trend forming where you see the hedge fund, you see the international monetary funds, you know, you see different countries and institutions wanting to hedge their own risk against a system that is pooled risk from the whole world.
That system is Bitcoin in case that wasn't obvious.
So there's a...
you know, a very obvious choice where governments and existing institutions don't want to just give up their power to a system they can't control,
but having some adjacency to it in a future where they're uncertain about what the leading currency would be or about who's capable of issuing a reserve currency when we're dying for this black swan and, you know, the world is in more depth than we have value and blah, blah, blah, blah.
You know, all of this stuff is very, very, sorry, I should say liquid value.
All of the stuff points to a handful of things, but one of those things is that Bitcoin doesn't need to decide if it's a store of value or a medium of exchange if governments find it useful as a tool or if large institutions find it useful as a tool.
So I wanted to tell you all something that's, I guess, moderately private, but it's not a secret. I've mentioned it before. There is an organization in Africa called PAPS. I believe it's PAPS. It might be PAPS.
but they're trying to form sort of a 4x network so that their currencies can trade directly against each other, their government currencies, because it's inconvenient to trade against a foreign currency like the franc or the dollar or whatever else.
You know, France still has a really big role in Africa, so a lot of people are trying to move away from that, especially in the last few years.
We've seen a lot of geopolitical activity there.
But instead of trying to say, hey, we're going to accept the digital yen as our new alternative, you know, having the alternative B Bitcoin is something that I proposed to them in a private sort of request for comments meeting. It was actually public, but they didn't hold it publicly. They just made a public link. And I said, ooh, and I clicked the link.
And when I went in there and talked to them about it, they said they were open to the idea, but of course it's very uncomfortable for them.
These are people who spend all of their time with traditional monetary policy, with traditional economic theses.
You know, they're a little nervous and a little hesitant to give up power to something they can't control or affect.
But at the same time, having to give up power to somebody else who they've already seen misuse that power is a much easier assessment to say, okay, I've got medium risk and low risk.
It might seem like high risk, but when I actually draw up the whole picture, you know, low risk seems like a better solution, right?
So I think we're going to see that narrative become more common where large institutions like BlackRock want to be more active in growing economies like Africa.
And that's already been seen.
But, you know, seeing those kinds of things today, they have this like complex way of jumping dollars into different organizations' hands.
Then those organizations have to ship things in and blah, blah, blah.
you know, buy local is actually easier to do when you have a, you know, non-managed international monetary system like Bitcoin.
So I think that there's a growing understanding among these large players that say, hey, you know, maybe I don't feel comfortable trusting the Bitcoin network.
Maybe there's too few people who have access to that GitHub repository, even though that wouldn't change the network if all of a sudden that repository was updated.
You know, there's some shaking out of nervous instincts, but at the same time, I think it's becoming more and more clear to big players of whatever type that Bitcoin is useful.
And that means that they don't have to, you know, necessarily get as far into it with us about what's going into the blocks.
And, you know, are they comfortable with this art being, you know, registered on Bitcoin?
But there's still a really high motivation to see, oh, I see that the Bitcoin network has been stable for quite a while.
You know, as a system that continues to operate. Maybe I don't want to use Satoshi's.
as a means of denominating value, but I can still use Bitcoin as that sort of global computer
to manage value systems that I already have or that are already mined at control.
So I think there's a lot of value in seeing the big players how they come in, not just that they are,
but there's a lot of nuance to their angles when they come into the Bitcoin world.
Look, Sheldon completely agree with that.
And I think it's something that we really do genuinely need to be present of mind with
because I think some of those red flags are going to come when it's too late.
And I also think that it's going to require essentially everybody else to move in one direction,
which Bitcoin has not been fantastic about, right?
Like, you know, if you've got like these huge...
superpowers accumulating Bitcoin and they all agree on a direction, especially if they link in
hedge funds that fall under the country that they operate in or what, then all of a sudden,
the only way to sort of fight that back is with like consensus on the other side of this,
because we have seen how that all goes wrong. And even just using ordnals as an example,
like it's so...
so separate, like the experience that takes right now about who likes it, who doesn't.
And so I do think that is something that we need to continue to host spaces around.
I think it's something we continue to work towards consensus on because there's certain
things that I think most of us do agree shouldn't happen.
Like I don't know if I'm misremembering this, but I'm pretty sure a big hedge fund did mention
that the 21 million Bitcoin could be changed.
You know?
You know, I think there was some terrifying take from some huge hedge fund where they're like,
well, if we get enough of it, we could maybe change the supply.
And again, this could just be a fever dream that I had.
And maybe this is complete nonsense.
But if that is in any way true, then we definitely need to be on the other side of that
fight.
And we need to be consensus for it.
So, guys, great conversation.
Fantastic talk so far.
It's just getting me more bullish on Bitcoin.
So I just want to shout out Omnity, Jeff, Stakestone.
And...
of course, into the block as well, and room mind for putting this show together.
Listeners, if you guys are enjoying this show, we are getting close to the end.
So definitely make sure you give this a like, a retweet and follow the people up on stage.
If you want to keep in tune with what is going on in Bitcoin, what's being built on Bitcoin,
these are some of the best accounts to keep that news and keep those updates.
So outside of that, we've got 10 minutes left.
I'm thinking value to our audience right now.
What are the lessons that we still need to pass on to our audience?
Maybe they hold Bitcoin, but that's it.
Let's just assume that amount of context.
I have a hold or understand Bitcoin principally, but that's about it.
What is next for the ecosystem that people should be aware of?
Are there any...
final takeaways that you guys want to leave our audience in terms of what they should be looking at,
what they should be expecting,
what upcoming developments could be meaningful.
Like literally anything that just...
It's fascinated you whilst you've been building and that you're excited about continuing to build for that reason.
I'd love to hear some takes on that point.
I'll let into the block go, but I'll just say four words.
Look at on-chain data.
That is four words, not five.
If you're comfortable holding Bitcoin, then you should be willing to get into the science of it just a little bit now and then there's a little bit.
Look under the spaces. Glass node is a very popular tool. There are other tools. You can run a node yourself and get even more data out of it. But please, you know, look at what's happening on Bitcoin. That's a really great way to spot trends.
Now, I love that, Cheldon. And if we do have time, I'd love to dive a little deeper on that one. But first, definitely into the block. We'd love to hear your take on this. Mike, over to you.
Yeah, we have that data.
So great point.
But so if you're interested, check it out.
At least we have a lot on Bitcoin as well.
So with a free account, you can see most of the historic things.
It's good for a novice trying to understand what's going on.
As for novice in crypto and Bitcoin, my recommendation would indeed also be like dive deeper into it.
I think if you're capable of understanding it and if you had like the motivation to get into it,
you should probably take advantage of that because not everybody is in that same potential mind space that you are.
So dive into it, see these developments that we've talked about today, like Bitcoin Defi, how Bitcoin is being used by institutions, by individuals.
And...
think a little bit about what the future might be like with Bitcoin because that's going to be crucial.
And then there's also a bit of advice there for people that don't know anything about Bitcoin
or about crypto, which is that I think we're reaching a point where it's almost irresponsible not to hold any Bitcoin.
I'm not saying like tell you're on to put.
50% of her assets in Bitcoin.
But yeah, maybe she should have some, right?
And maybe your father, your uncle, you're like maybe everybody should have some.
Because a future where Bitcoin is successful is a future where it's going to be extremely valuable.
And it probably will be an important global asset then.
Yeah, I completely, completely agree.
Like, look, I was chilling my parents, Bitcoin, at, like, I think it was around $16,000 a couple years ago.
Then I was like, no, you're still not too late.
Now I'm still like, look, buy it, but don't just don't buy it in bulk.
Like, just start DCA and just get a little bit involved.
And I will let you know if there's any, like, prime opportunities that I think, yeah, this is the point where I'm stacking.
But, yeah.
look, at either of those points, if they had put in that money, like, obviously we all know
where that would take them right now. But there's also going to be huge downsers as well.
So I don't, I think one big consensus to this, one big takeaway, I think I've used consensus
like 400 times on the show. So I'll try and find another word, need a word of the day calendar.
But the big thing about this is there is never a.
a too late time.
Like genuinely, if you learn one thing from being in crypto is that when you feel like
you're too late, there will be an opportunity where you will realize how early you are.
And the best thing to do is just to start and get involved now.
because you're always going to feel like you're too late.
I felt I was too late five years ago.
I think there's videos of Tim Ferriss,
who was like one of the first big creators on YouTube,
being told how he was too late to get into YouTube.
This is something that human beings consistently feel
when they see new tech that is going to change
how we interact with the world.
As soon as it gets on your radar, you think, well, I'm no big deal.
How am I aware of it so early?
I must be really late, and it just isn't the case.
So, look, Jeff, your hand is raised.
Absolutely have loved this conversation today.
We're basically getting really close to time.
So I'd love to hear your take on the conversation so far.
And just in case we do run over, I'd love to also give you the mic for any updates,
milestones or anything you'd like to share on behalf of Ruemind after your take.
Yeah, sure. So look, put it this way. I've been in the space for nine years now. And I have personally, like I have been chasing this idea that I, I've been buying lots of Bitcoin. I've been buying lots of other cryptocurrency assets. And I've been chasing this idea that.
If I had been in earlier, I would have done better.
And I can tell you what, the vast, vast majority of altcoins that I have bought over the years,
I would have been better off by Bitcoin.
And I really do think like when you are talking about a global political changing technology,
There is no too late.
You know, at the end of the day, this is either a asset which rivals what current standing governments and all use.
It is an asset that can be used as an alternative or is an asset that could become dominant.
We don't know.
We don't know what the future holds.
But I think like...
The hole is very deep when you start actually looking into Bitcoin.
It's very easy to pass over Bitcoin and say, oh, this has happened already.
This is where it's going.
And I think it's very surprising when you realize that actually the vast majority of technical analysis, the vast majority
of projects providing analytical data is all based around Bitcoin and Bitcoin is by far the biggest
thing that you can have information at your fingertips in this industry to be a part of.
And I think it's a very interesting and super exciting sector to be building on top of that
and that's why we are building where we are and we really believe that there is
huge opportunity in this sector and in this blockchain in general.
But I think also, you know, so many people will just, as you say, look at it and say,
oh, I'm late and it's too late.
And I would argue that, you know, depending on how you're looking at improving your portfolio
in life, you are probably never too late to this move.
because in the long run it is only going to gain ground.
So, you know, I think it's really for anyone that's listening and, you know,
especially if you're looking into the Bitcoin space to try and make up for maybe lost time or
anything else, I think it is super important to realize the
the easiest and the most simple bet you can make is Bitcoin.
And that is the bet we have made as a project.
And you know, we've been, we've been very much working towards this vision,
making Bitcoin assets more usable for everyday people,
but also, you know, looking towards the future and seeing how we can integrate
Bitcoin back stable coins and, you know,
you know, borrowing and lending on Bitcoin and all these different ways that we can actually
utilize the Bitcoin blockchain and not ever have to worry about is this blockchain going to be
the next futures hype is, you know, is, you know, is.
Is it currently this chain or that chain?
Like when it's Bitcoin, you're kind of guaranteed to be brought along the wave.
So you know, that's very much the vision that we've been working on.
We are looking to bring run shot to market in the next few weeks.
And that will enable the creation, the easy creation of Bitcoin assets.
Ourselves, we did a raise on GoFund meme, which you would have thought would be a meme project,
but they actually enable this for lots of different projects looking to raise funds.
And I think what you're going to see is Bitcoin and the Bitcoin ecosystem move from a very kind of
meme coin or early stage orientation ecosystem to a much more developed ecosystem.
We've been talking to many projects who are looking to launch their tokens.
And I think it's a really interesting time and it's a really interesting place to be involved with this, see what happens.
But at the end of the day, you know, just bear in mind that you're probably never going to be too late to Bitcoin because this may be the be all and end all.
And if it's not, it's probably going to have a significant impact on most people's life.
So whether it's Bitcoin or Bitcoin assets or however you want to get involved, actually start learning because there's an incredible amount of information available.
It's all public as as this industry works.
And you can go and find so much of this data from into the block and other other teams that are providing this information.
So much of it is available for free.
And even if it's not free, it's very, very cheap compared to stock markets and other industries that charge incredible amounts of money to have this information to hand.
So I would highly recommend people to actually dive into Bitcoin and learn about it because there's so much happening and there's so much more to come.
amazing stuff Jeff and look at incredible conversation today I want to shout out Omnesty and
Sheldon behind the account Jeff into the block and all of our amazing guest speakers today
big big shout out to Room Mine as well for putting this together just been a
It's just been a really bullish show.
I'm just, I'm feeling it.
I'm feeling the vibes.
I'm into my taproot yesterday.
I'm hopping on the show today.
I'm feeling it.
I cannot wait to see what is being built next.
And I love having these conversations with you guys.
And just getting to learn on stage with you.
It's really, really, honestly, it's just, it's an honor.
So thank you guys so, so much.
Thank you to all of our listeners who've tuned in as well.
You guys are why we get to have these conversations because there's other people on the
other side of this stage.
who want to hear them. If you do have any comments, if you want to hear any different part
about Bitcoin, then do hit us in the comments, do hit us in the DMs as well, always looking
for takes from our speakers. And that's it. I think that's all we have time for today. So again,
a big shout to all of our speakers, to all of our listeners. And we're going to play this one out now.
I don't mind it's getting
Yeah
Yeah
Yeah
I just want
For the night
For the night
I will be the best that will be for me
All the crazy shit I did
tonight
Those would be the best memories
I just want to let it go
For the night
That would be the best that will be the best
therapy for me
