Welcome everybody to another coinage space GM GM Hope you had a good long weekend. It is of course Tuesday May 30th and we are bringing
you a recap of all the crypto news from the long weekend and a lot to get to by virtue of it being a long weekend. I'm the host of the award-winning community owned media project Coinnage Zach who is on coming to you live from our Brooklyn studio. Important to note, you can now call on what we are building here at Coinnage by minting an NFT. You can learn more about the project at Coinnage.
of course, I'm not flying alone today. We've got our head writer in studio, Zach Abrams here as well. Good to have you back after the long weekend. We also got Ariel Givner on as well, Web 3 attorney and founder and Givner law. Ariel, good to have you back on the space as well. Per usual, I believe you're driving, which is always fun.
I am sorry about that and I'm also expecting a phone call so if I drop out I promise I'll come back. Yeah, she drops out she comes back in all good no worries either way But a lot of things to get into this time around on the space You got of course all eyes focused on what's going on with the debt deal our latest episode also
So brings up a lot of political questions when it comes to crypto and where the US's role in that debate is headed. But want to start on the update there because it does seem like Democrats and Republicans came together to reach a deal when it comes to the debt ceiling. And importantly, I think Abrams, you know, we saw a bit of a pop.
off of a Bitcoin price when that news came down because it seems like a push that Biden had for a 30% crypto tax is not going to be included in that deal miners taking a sigh of relief off that one right and of course the broader market also taking a bit of a sigh of relief off that one that being said it does look like Bitcoin is going
to hit its first red monthly candle for the first time since December, unless we see significant price increases over the next couple days. So not the bullish signal that people were hoping for. And perhaps never really out of the woods until the vote comes down and it's all fine because you still have that vote coming up later in the week you had
basically all signs pointing to expect that to pass. But you never really know when you have such razor thin majorities on both sides voting expected to begin on Wednesday. But importantly, as I said, default, I guess looking less and less likely and we are seeing across the board markets positive moves
off of that area. I don't know if you've been following that one as closely, but it's always one of these things where we see a bunch of dire headlines around the US debt deal not passing default potentially just a few days away. And then we get this and it's almost ever turned to everything as normal. Yeah. And I think the main thing I want to emphasize
this is that just because a bill is being proposed doesn't automatically mean that it's law. And this is something that is so small, but it's taken very out of context when people read these headlines and you know you often see not necessarily a freak out, but people get very excited. And I agree I think that the Bitcoin mining tax not being included is
I think it's personally, I think it's great. But again, this is just a bill. A bill is not law. A bill becomes law after certain events happen, certain votes are taking place. But as of right now, it is just a bill. I'm not sorry to be the downer, but that I think is my biggest
frustration with this is that everybody reads a proposed bill and thinks, oh my god, everything is going to be better. Everything's going to be worse. But again, it's just a bill. Right. And as we saw earlier in the year with Republicans struggling to confirm Kevin McCarthy is their speaker, none of these things that should be simple and straightforward seem to be simple and straightforward. So who knows what could happen.
No, they aren't and also I guess you know to Ariel's point anything can be added or taken back as some of those fringe players We've seen it before as you said always have their voices heard and potentially do hold a lot of power in you know potentially adding Things they can make this a bit of a hostage situation saying no we want this in or we want that out so
So for now, it looks like Biden's 30% tax, which by the way, Senator Cynthia Lomas had said, "Apinkcoin Miami if you were there," that there was a very low likelihood that that would have been passed anyways, so something to keep in mind, that she at least called that one correctly. The other piece of this too, you mentioned Abrams that Bikwins candle probably like it popped off of this a few days ago.#
but not enough too little too late to avert a May candle being read. As you said the first time since December, we are seeing that play out. But importantly, I think also one of the other big market questions everyone's been talking about the Fed focusing on that. We've had our own debates and bets back and forth on what the Fed's going to do. This time the next policy meeting coming up in June
Earlier before this death deal passed it was about a 70 30 split in terms of chances that we would not see a rate hike. Come the next policy meaning that's now flipped basically reversed 70 30 that we will see a hike another 25 basis points hike come June. So I think that that's kind of interesting to watch doesn't seem
have much of an impact thus far. But expectations where rates are going to be is a huge thing, not just for crypto, I don't think, but for tech largely. And surprising to not see anyone panicking that the idea of, you know, dovish fed believers aren't seeing any wins. Right. Well, we do have a couple of weeks.
before that meeting, but I think it's June 14th. Yep. We've got some time until that happens, but I mean, I don't know. It's always interesting because expectations in where the Fed goes. Ariel, interestingly, I mean, you know, everyone who's been a crypto watcher, which by God, I don't know what's included in all of this. Now, you
got to be an expert on NFTs and art. You also got to be an expert on Fed policy speak and increasingly you got to be an expert on ordinals and everything else that's going on there too. So I don't know. It's a hodgepodge of all these topics. Everyone has to watch all the time. But I guess, you know, increasingly we've seen people talk about Bitcoin being in a whole field of its own when it comes to#
Yeah, I mean Bitcoin it can be I admittedly have been trading crypto for over four years. I use it as a tool to make a supplemental side income and I personally I don't trade Bitcoin. I refuse Bitcoin and I refuse to touch Ethereum because the price action you know it's very
unpredictable most times and it does include, you know, those wicks that just mean to liquidate people and then it'll go the direction that you want it to go. So I don't personally touch those because Bitcoin and Ethereum, you think it's going to go one way with this news. I mean, you think that this Bitcoin mining bill or the Bitcoin mining tax not being included in the
bill would be a bullish sentiment, would cause people to buy it, get excited. But as you said, we're looking at the first red candle since December, monthly. So it is unpredictable. I do agree with that statement. That's a bit surprising to me to hear that you don't trade those because those are the two, I guess you're right, that it's always kind of a craps you
on what exactly is going to happen. I think we've seen probably over the last, I don't know, a few months, almost every narrative about Bitcoin be proven wrong, right? The idea of it being an inflation hedge, that one died, the idea of it being more closely tied to tech stocks. That's uncoupling a little bit recently. I don't know. I mean, I guess it is always intriguing. But if I were trading, I would#
it's almost the easiest because volatility is much lower than everything else you trade. But based on your timeline, I feel like Salona is probably in there as well since we're on the discussion. What are you liking right now to be trading? Oh, man. I mean, I do, I will every now and then dip my feet in the water of trading Bitcoin and Ethereum.
I'm slowly reminded when I do that, why I don't, because I will just lose. I mean, in my head, it's going to, you know, prices going to go down. It's going to go up. It'll liquidate my position and then it'll go down. So it's just, it's, that, it's just frustrating. I find that there are other coins that don't have that, you know, those liquidity spikes that#
follow TA a little bit more traditionally. Solana is one of them, but I'm also, I mean, full disclosure, I'm not necessarily objective with Solana. Most of my clients are Solana NFTs, Solana, you know, entrepreneurs, and I just, I personally love the Solana community, so I think that might also be why I gravitate towards trading it a little bit.
more. Yeah, never a shortage of people who need web3 attorneys and if you do need one Ariel seems to be the one that people are turning to at least in that community which is good news bears for everybody. But no, I mean it's I think it's true. I think you know trading one of these coins and converting it now. I mean I might also be
in the only camp on talking about ordinals when it comes to all the excitement of some of these projects, the latest to bridge over to Bitcoin and being an ordinal NFT versus where they were before, I believe, Ether. The idea of bridging all these assets, it does remind me that maybe it is just all this money swishing and swashing from one camp to the other.
where it's not really bringing anything new in, but the excitement is just spilling over into whatever chain they want to land on. And speaking of excitement spilling over into new chains, we've been tracking the Render Network, whose token is more closely tracking tech stocks, at least according to some analysts, even as Bitcoin
coin and Ethereum tend to decouple as it looks like the tech sector is turning more towards AI and speaking of, Nvidia has the trillion dollar market cap today. Yeah, it seems like the next gold rush is going to be in these chips, powering the AI revolution and the render network similar to a Cache who see, Greg Asurui, we've had on the show.
for, they're seeking to almost be the Airbnb of chips, freeing up chips that people have in their possession saying, "Hey, let me open them up to our network. Have anybody use this computing power and in return will pay you for it?" And to me, it's an interesting evolution of Bitcoin mining because Bitcoin mining
the computers are mostly doing busy work in order to run the network. Now these days with proof of stake network, you don't need that computing power, but some projects are saying, "Hey, let's keep the computers running, but let's instead use that computing power on useful projects rather than just busy work securing the network." Yeah, there's a really good article in the Wall Street Journal over the weekend,
of on this topic and a couple of interesting quotes to come out of it when you talk about the chip shortage and all the demand now driven by chat GPT everything else and AI projects needing this compute power. You had the CEO of one startup that helps companies build AI chatbot models saying that finding chips is like toilet paper in the pandemic.
which is a metaphor I think we can all relate to because everybody poops. But the other one that I think was pretty good was Elon Musk who had told the Wall Street Journal last week the GPUs at this point are considerably harder to get than drugs, which is a metaphor that some people, maybe more in San Francisco, might be able to relate to. And I like you said Abrams, this is the interesting crypto
connection that we'll be exploring this week. As you said, we had a caution network on before this idea of, all right, sure, people turn to AWS, they've got centralized servers, you turn to them, you launch an app, whatever you use AWS. But what about all the other unused chips that sit around the world? And can you decentralize things like that? Ariel, I don't know if you've paid attention
Of course, there have been a lot of projects that have chosen to say we could be the X of Y. We are going to be the promised solution to all this and historically, you know, in crypto. A lot of times the hype is a little bit bigger than the actual solution to the problem. But I'm still optimistic because this does seem like one problem that is only growing the more
ai and everything else that comes out here there is legitimately a shortage of chips right now i wish i had more of an opinion on this but i'm going to be honest this is an issue that i'm not personally following closely i don't think a lot of people are because it's so new this is one where it's like you know i i randomly had become such a thing that
I don't know I everyone in vc certainly had been talking about it being the new wave of adoption and new wave of the hot sexy thing and the joke right now is that everyone's just jumping ship from crypto into AI paradigm being the last major fun doing so but I it does seem like this is something that caught a lot of people flabfooted which makes no sense because if you were a vc
scene you were seeing this wave, wouldn't the idea be, uh-oh, we're going to be in serious need of chips? Well, I think that's true. I think the one thing AI really has over crypto is a really simple consumer application that was, I believe, Chatchy BT was like the fastest app in history to reach 100 million monthly
users and it did it in a week, whatever the numbers are, there was a box that people could log on to for free and type to and it could type back. And I think that level of simplicity and that level of just wow factor has really led people to understand what AI means for them in a really concrete way, in a way that I think crypto
hasn't had. I mean, we have wallets and defying NFTs and everything, but crypto is still lacking that magical moment where the average person uses something related to crypto and says, wow, this is something that I had no idea was possible and has completely changed my brain in the way that I think a lot of people have felt that with chat GBT and AI tools like the journey.
being there when in fact it really wasn't. And you know, Render, as Abram said, is one of those things we're going to be looking into for this week's episode. But it does strike me as interesting every time you have some of the founders or team attached to these projects, maybe over-promising some of what their project can do.
and I don't know if that's something that you've seen, maybe be less egregious as we've seen more and more cases be brought against some of these founders. Also, Elizabeth Holmes, we were chatting going to prison now, so we're trying to figure out which jail she's going to be going to, but that would also be attached to this condom. Oh, good old Lizzie Holmes. I love that he's trying to, I like that#
the narrative. I'm honestly surprised that there wasn't some PR health issue that came out this weekend that would further postpone her time not being in prison. Yes, where's the New York Times when you need them? I mean, they've already tried to rebrand her as a family, a family mom who didn't, you know, fraud millions of people and think people and just, you know, trying
the stablecoin, we're going to change the world, we're going to change decentralization, and then in two months it's gone. And that's so common, it's painful. It is common. And it is also why we constantly under promise here at Coinnage. We say you can call on the show, but we say we don't know where this show goes. So keep that in mind if you're minting NFT to weigh in and join.#
are legally registered cooperative, but Ariel, this is a good chance to pivot into one of the more interesting debates we've had around use cases and what exactly the hell is going on in memecoin space. You were joking around that you might not be able to weigh in too much on this one because you might not be seeing the updates and Spitboy blocked you, but over the
weekend, there were also tweets from BitBoy about the latest memecoin craze and another one to join Ben and Syop loyal, a token for a new deck/memecoin launchpad named Sydex. I believe Abrams, the idea here being that it would be a uniswap competitor bringing back the idea
of decentralizing exchanges and SIAP holders will benefit Bitcoin tells his followers, including a percentage of LP profits on loyal getting air drop to Ben coin holders each week. So we're talking about, I think the snake had eating the tail. I don't exactly know what the metaphor here is, but the idea of, you've got all these people betting on these
these meme coins and now you can introduce a place where they can trade, but some of the profits from that trading activity goes back to the holders of the meme coins. I mean, you're certain what makes sense. I mean, go ahead, Ariel, but I'm just wondering if the meme coin hype cycle was really going to last long enough for this to have any real adoption. I hope
not. I honestly hope for me, cycle's almost over so we can get back to legitimate cryptocurrencies. But I mean, I think for me, I did joke. I mean, it wasn't a joke. Ben did block me. He didn't block my law firm account or my fund burner account. So I do still see updates, although I can't switch to those while I'm on spaces here.
But the constant theme that I'm seeing with him is that he's promising big changes because of these coins. Lifting crypto up pro crypto advertisements, all of these things. And to me, it's just sounding more and more like a security. The core aspect
of a security, at least with an investment contract, is somebody's investing money into something where they're expecting a profit solely on the efforts of a third party. And it sounds like with these coins, they're promising so many things and the holder has to do nothing but buy it. How is that any different than a
trading, which is a very different thing. But I think that this is kind of what every project founder now in the space is trying to figure out, or maybe not, maybe don't care at all, and maybe you're just willing to take the risk and do things like this and say, "Hey, if the SEC comes after me, that's going to be great for my image," and put me into the story, which I think we've discussed
us before Ariel is probably where BitBoy is coming from. I imagine that the bigger the target on the back is better in that case because then you're getting even more eyeballs. Yeah, the amount of I did try and stay away from Twitter a little bit this weekend. I was trying to disconnect but the amount of DMs that I got asked
asking to bring a class action lawsuit on behalf of people against Ben.Eath and BitBoy Ben. I can't count them on two hands. I mean people are just, and I don't know if these are people that just hate what it's doing to the ecosystem or if they're individuals that have already lost money, but I mean I wouldn't surprise me if somebody does
try and bring some sort of lawsuit against either of them. I personally don't think I have the bandwidth or the time, so I don't think that's going to be me, but I can see it. I do think that somebody is going to try. Well, Ariel, my question for you is, do you think there's an issue with the jurisdictions here because if they're launching a
X. I mean, it reminds me of something I learned a few weeks ago when we were working on Binance that Binance started out as an exchange that used no fiat currency and an attempt to be based nowhere and thus kind of everywhere. It can operate anywhere because it's not actually touching the political or the banking system. So would it make it more difficult if he's trying to launch
decentralized exchange to really nail them down for this. It's possible. I mean, I think that that's a defense that they might try and it's a good effort on their part. But when it comes to things like Ben coin, when they're promising to use the money in the profits to try and change American politics and American regulation
and their views on cryptocurrencies, that one's going to be a little bit harder. Yeah, all of this is always intriguing to watch in real time and see where regulators might land on some of this stuff. Of course, our last episode, by the way, I mean, it was just another space. Nick Carter was saying that if Democrats win McMillbones about it, Bitcoin will be
crypto in the US will be dead, not Bitcoin all of it, but Bitcoin and crypto here in the US might be dead. It's also intriguing to see a governor to Santa's make similar claims when it comes to what four more years of the Biden administration might mean for crypto across the board. And I fear our fear as we've covered these things,
would be that more and more people building here are inevitably going to go offshore and it opens up more sketchy behavior. And perhaps, you know, it's a good segue into our last topic we have slated here, which are updates on the SBF trial, including the government's response to motions on SBF
to dismiss charges and perhaps 100% expectedly the government saying no, no, we are not going to say that that would be a good thing for this court to do to dismiss all of these. And Abrams, you and I were discussing, of course, Bernie Madoff eventually did plead guilty and got 150 years in that
ship should we say on the part of SPF's defense saying that he's not guilty and then potentially maybe reversing course. A lot of people are assuming this October trial is going to happen. I'm not so sure. I don't know because we've seen a lot of things go to trial and not pan out. You can look at Nate Chastain at the Open C case. How much he's going to get. I don't know.
August is the sentencing there could be forty years though so i don't know what's going to happen here but the latest update being the government's rons and saying that we will not be in favor of dismissing these charges uh... aerial how do you see this one shaking out you mean to tell me that as the defense of their mistakes made from a wallet i controlled isn't gonna
hold up in court. I think that's a winning argument. Breaking changing the headline right now, changing the headline of the space. Yeah, I mean, I personally don't think that I don't think the judge is going to weigh in favor of the defense motions here. The prosecutor basically said that the motions to dismiss the charges were meritless.
which I completely agree with. And I mean, I wrote this down and I can quote, "The indictment sufficiently alleges that the defendant and his co-conspirers made false and misleading representation to lenders relating to alamata's financial condition. No more specificity is required." And FTX's attorneys were saying that the charges
weren't specific enough. A lot of things happen outside the US, you know, those jurisdiction issues were brought up. It's, I, when I first read those motions, I honestly thought it was a joke because no judge is going to read the indictment and see all of the financial harm that was caused by the FTX collapse and think that
SPS isn't culpable here. So I think that this is just more of a time delay personally. I do. I don't think the trial is going to happen. I do think that he will plead guilty eventually. I think this is them trying their last defense is out. But I want to see the trial happen. I hope that it, I mean, it would be an
if it does, we would get to see a lot in discovery assuming that it isn't filed under a protective order. Things aren't redacted. But I don't know. This is going to be interesting. I plan to do a full write up on it when this motion is heard in court. I believe it's June 15th as the return date. And it's going to be interesting. I really don't know
what the defense attorneys were thinking other than we're trying everything we can at this point uh... i i don't know how i mean they're also at the risk of sounding like yours standard attorney where they file the more they get paid yeah that's i mean i guess i would explain that's a piece that hasn't really been covered so much is the uh... attorney angle here they're making so much money
And they're building hourly. It's a defense case. It's being paid for, I'm assuming probably by his parents. I mean, they're getting paid a hefty amount and these defense attorneys, they're good attorneys. They're not bad attorneys. They've worked with very high profile individuals. I believe one of them was an attorney for Gila and
And Max, well, they're very seasoned attorneys. They know what they're doing. And with that comes the price for a high season attorney. So I would be lying if I said that in reading these motions, I was thinking that that was also a piece that was involved. Yeah, I mean, the cost on the other side too, that obviously, you know, is decades in prison, depending on how it goes.
when deal is reached or if it goes to trial what the sentencing looks like I suppose and so yeah if you're facing that you might want to be showing out whatever you got in the bank to be to be funding that right well I was also going to say on the other side I've seen some critical reporting on how much John J Ray the new CEO of FTX overseeing this bankruptcy is spent on legal bills I mean it's tens of millions
of dollars, there are rumors that he is attempting to relaunch the exchange, which would involve even more spending. And it's a question of, is there still enough value in FTX so that all of this would help people get money back? Or is this tens of millions of dollars of legal fees just mean less money in the pocket of anybody who lost
a whole thing on its own between what's going on with DCG Genesis and that battle for people who are stuck there in Gemini, I understand. I don't know every update I get from the Wiggleboss twins doesn't bring me any joy. So I don't know if there's a distinction there for a call to be made at some of these companies in just saying, look, it ain't
going our way. And I think that's basically what Voyager decided to do when they couldn't get Binance to take it over that deal they backed out of and 35 cents the last update I saw potentially maybe 65 depending on how their battle goes with FTX and what Voyager can claw back. But I don't know. I mean, is there at some point as a lawyer if you are the
one there making money. I see you're just saying, let's let this ride, baby. Yeah, I don't know if I mean, the defense attorneys for SBF don't in their minds are probably not thinking about the individuals that lost money. They're thinking about Sam. Their job is to try and get Sam either to not go to prison or go to prison
for the least amount that he can. So I don't believe that they are thinking about the individuals that lost money. I don't think they have a duty to. But I don't know if you guys saw this, but SBF was sued again on May 19th by the original FTX lawyers for misappropriating customer funds and buying and bed, which is a company.
for $220 million. They thought it was insider trading, insider fraud, and they're looking to get the funds back. So again, these are more funds coming from SPF potentially that aren't going to go to the actual individual creditors that lost money. Yeah. And also being, I think that case tied to the
the idea of just buying something that didn't really have any value or any worth to it. And just saying, all right, we're going to do this because we know the people or have a connection there. And you know, I think that that's another, you know, there's a long slate. It's a long list of potential things that will, as you said, Ariel, come up in this trial. And it's constantly, I think, difficult for#
any journalist or anyone watching this, he really parsed through which ones the prosecution might want to spend the most time on. Because it's time they published a report about the mountain of evidence. That's what they use in the headline against SBF, including six million pages of emails and reportedly, Carolyn Ellison's little black diary.
which has. I'm sure just tons of juicy information that I would love to learn and prosecutors are. They have a lot of reading to do the next few months. Yeah, well, we have the bet running basically here internally and with our community, the idea of, you know, whether or not we will start to see some of that info.
Everyone wants to see it. Everyone, I think, Ariel, you're also everyone wants to see this stuff. So everyone's. Everyone's rooting for trial. Everyone's rooting for all this stuff to fall out. But as you said, the idea and what his attorneys are trying to do is minimize the risk. I would just if this goes the way that the Fox News case did where it all
wrapped up kind of neatly and we didn't get anybody sweating on the stand. I'll be a little disappointed because I was disappointed then. Yeah, a lot of people were disappointed then. A lot of people wanted that dirty black book as you say. But I don't know. I have a feeling it's going to play out kind of like the FCNK said where we're not going to get the information that we wanted because I do think that there are high individuals#
higher up individuals involved in this that we don't even know about and we would become aware of it should all of this get passed through in court. Yeah, well I want to disagree with you, but I don't know if I can. I want I want to disagree with you too. I don't want to be right. I hope I'm very wrong, but it just with all of the ties
to MIT, Gary Gensler. It all smells too fishy to not be fishy. You make the Epstein connection as well. That was another prime example of things smelling fishy and being too connected to a lot of things. I think the dots can be connected perhaps.
In how many people were involved in this? Obviously, you saw Conan O'Leary coming out as well, attached to it and defending SPF. There are so many names attached to it. Being attached to it, I think always everyone's like, "Oh, you were in a commercial, so you must have been attached to the fraud that was." Which is a little bit unfair. Obviously, a big name.
and you know, outlets and whoever might try and connect those dots. But there is no shortage of people who are actually invested in this company and trying to see it grow, which also makes the interesting point as you raise Abrams the idea of it coming back. So interesting to watch as well. Yeah, did you hear I just I just learned this because I had
miss this, but Shaq was finally served with papers. Yes, they got him. They got a paper that is called the King of evasion. Ladies and gentlemen, but we got him ready at a basketball playoff game in what used to be known as FTX Arena. That's the sweet sweet poem. It's nice. You can ask for anything better.
I just like the cat and mouse game in that. I don't think Ariel you may maybe you've seen other people in this space do such a good job. The man's huge isn't he over seven feet tall. I think he's over seven feet tall and they couldn't they couldn't get him they couldn't reach him. I think the last time they served him somebody threw court papers in his car. That's what I heard. Yeah.
which is the king of evasion. I want to show if if FTX and SPF if this all goes to trial I'm requesting that we do another show where we talk about it as it's being streamed. I think that's an important thing to add here. I mean even for the neat chastain case I was there in the in the court
courtroom. Trying to watch that one. And again, I think, you know, if you watch all the journalists now lining up for plans in October, it's going to be a madhouse akin to dare I say the OJ Simpson trial because you're going to have press crawling over that space and already people trying to figure out the best way to get laptops and everything to cover in real
time in the courtroom, which is something that we didn't have enough time to do for the NCHS-TN case. But this one's going to be infinitely bigger than that. And I was also surprised that more people weren't in the courtroom for the NCHS-TN case just because of what it meant for NFTs as it was the first time that you had the government going in there for quote unquote insider trading in NFT land.
And they got him. He lost it and was convicted. So I mean, I don't know. I don't know what it's going to look like come come the summer and fall for SBF's trial. But yes, I area I would agree to that on the record right now is just basically we can even set up shop outside and get everybody going in and out because I think you know the mainstream media
video obviously is going to be covering it but not probably in the way that crypto wants to see. And that's what coinages here to dip. Maybe we'll have to get one of those new Apple headsets and take everybody inside. Virtually AR. It's used to get one of them for the office. Eril, are you planning on coming down for it? What's your plan? I've been thinking about it. I mean, I'm in Philly#
not that far, it's going to be a disaster. But I'm curious, I don't know what the New York specific laws are for televised broadcasts, but I mean, we can only hope maybe like the Johnny Depp and for her case, it will be tough. That would be a blessing. And I think it would be a lot easier, obviously, for people to, it would
I'm just going to be easier for people to get information and facts, but if it is not televised, I am planning on being there. So if you guys want to post up shop, do some sort of show, I would love to pop in. We're going to figure that out because we've got, you know, as I said, we are a community owned media outlets, but we are backed by the co-founder
of Netflix as one of those NFT holders. So we have the production capabilities to turn this into something outside the courtroom. And I think that would be nice because at your point, I don't know the rules around this, but I feel like I thought the decisions to have some of these things televised comes down to what the public can learn. And if there's anything that I think the public can learn,
and more and more about is crypto. And I feel like that's important. You're right that the amber herd case in Johnny Depp was out there for everyone to witness the details about. I'm not sure if they needed to learn anymore about pooping in beds, which was a spicy detail that came out of that case. But I think
that there's much more to learn in this one when it comes to everything crypto related how much all this is game who's really pulling the strings i feel like not just for the public but for congressman and women regulators as well yeah absolutely i did a quick search and just to let you guys know in york has some of the most restrictive laws and and cameras
audio, anything in the courtroom. So I take back my statement, I don't think it's going to be televised. Yeah, the likelihood that it is, I was already thinking might not happen. The knee chest in one also not televised very strict on what you could bring in in terms of recording equipment in that courtroom. Unless you got a court order to do so. So that is one thing that is going to be
Very, very tricky and even then you couldn't record anything. You just basically have your laptop to be typing up. I guess we would have seen more footage of Trump in his trial hearings if it was a lot of you. That was a civil case to you. This one's certainly not for SBF and where this goes. But no, Ariel, it's going to be something we're going to be watching more and more closely as we approach the thing.
and so we would love to have you involved really trying to figure this out from the whole community. Remember one who owns a coin in Gen. F. T. D. Ryan to try and land on what's the best way to do this so we can serve our community of holders the best way. Aaron, you're driving though so feel free if you got a bounce I will not take that personally. Abrams might though. No, I'll do.
I'm good. I actually just got to my office. So I'm just very good now. Right on. Thank God. Yeah. The last thing to discuss around what we have coming up is both a reversion to what we covered this last week was a long weekend. So maybe people didn't see, but we dove deep into the idea of where crypto politics goes. And I do think the idea of Bitcoin winning
through this election deal, not election deal. The debt deal and the idea of the 30% tax that Biden was pushing, maybe signals there's some waning of support on the Democratic side for what he's trying to do in cracking down across the board when it comes to crypto. I think we have a clip from what we saw in compiling all of the candidates now weighing in on
on crypto policy, which is kind of an interesting thing to think about. Just want to play a little bit of what we explored in the latest episode when it comes to where political candidates increasingly are saying they fall on the lines, including what we heard from Governor DeSantis. We'll get it on the other side of this clip. But Nate, what do we got? Freedom of speech, freedom of money.
free of government mandate free assembly free speech free society of free thinking individuals freedom. I don't know if you're watching this area but freedom was the main thing discussed at Bitcoin Miami this year you heard Vavec Ramaswamy, RFK, Jr., and Tulsi Gabbard speaking there but it's increasingly
both parties, by the way, are of case junior Democrat leading contender there, the Vecra, I'm a swami on the Republican side, both parties representing at 2023 Bitcoin Miami, making the point that freedom of money is incredibly important in this election cycle. You've heard Bellagia saying that 2024 is going to be the Bitcoin election, but increasingly candidates coming
and saying, look, we understand why crypto is important in restoring the freedom of money. And I agree. I think that this is going to be something that both parties have to focus a lot more on in 2024. D'Santz has even said when he announced his bid on the space that I will defend Bitcoin for Americans and CBDCs will go nowhere if I am president.
Yeah, my fear is that individuals running are going to use a pro crypto stance to hide possible other aspects of their campaign that they're not going to want people to see because they're not going to be favorable. I do think that crypto is going to be a major topic in the election. I really do. And I mean, that's
I'm just interested to see how it plays out. You have them saying this, but then we see things like the whole tornado cash sanctions and actions need to line up with words from these politicians. Obviously with politicians, that's not usually what happens, but it's going to be interesting to see how these, I guess,
I'm curious to see if anybody can get the SEC in line with what's going on with the crypto exchanges and if Coinbase and them going after the SEC and saying, "Hey, we need some regulations here." I wonder if there's going to be a politician that can capitalize that and help push that forward. I have no idea.
it's candidates on both the Republican and Democratic side. But we went back and looked at the clip, the debate for the Libertarian Party, just to give you a flavor of why I think these candidates came out swinging so hard at Bitcoin Miami, talking about why Bitcoin and crypto is freedom of money and why that's so important. Maybe it's because there's no room for compromise
when you go back and listen to the libertarians debate and Gary Johnson getting booed when he talked about drivers license. Not all right. Fine. I'm not going to spoil it. Nate, go ahead. Play the clip. Someone have to have a government issued license to drive a car. Hell no. What's next? Requiring a license to make toast in your own damn toaster.
The license to drive, you know, I'd like to see some competency exhibited by people before they drive That was Gary Johnson getting booed because he said he wanted people to drive or know that improved that they could drive before they get a license and now
Well, it used to be that. That was the kind of the take was libertarians being the defenders of crypto, but not the case anymore. We're talking about Barack Obama, we're talking RFK, Jr. Despite the fact that both of those candidates are running for the nomination of opposite parties, they still agree when it comes to crypto. And something interesting, we
learned during research for this last episode was that crypto was not mentioned during any of the major debates in the 2020 election, Trump versus Biden. So if nothing else, I absolutely expect that to change in the upcoming cycle. Yeah, I mean, Trump's got his own empty collection now. So we've come a long way from him calling it a scam right after he left
this to running his own in a T collection. So I mean, Ariel, I think you're right. I think that there's no way that this can't become a 2024 issue. But I share the same fear you do in that, yes, if you're not Bitcoin Miami and you're trying to attract boats, especially this early on in this cycle, you're going to say whatever you can to get any sort of attention, but the idea of which candidates are really#
going to be the ones who aren't just using this as an early entry point to gain favor, but who are actually going to be there when it comes down to it and we've seen this happen time and time again. People say a big game, talk a big game, they get into office and then they're like, "I forgot about crypto, it doesn't really matter anymore." But outside of Senator Lumus,
I can't really think of too many people who are attached to the point where they're going to risk their own political capital to make sure that things don't get passed that are completely dumb in the US. You mean to tell me that politicians are overpromising and underdelivering? Maybe more so than scam coiners out there. Dare I say.
The only the only thing that is true there, but I don't know I we asked this to Caitlin Long on the episode last week the idea of what platform she would want to see I don't know if there's anything that stands out to you as being a good litmus test for which politicians are serious about it versus which ones are just using people
I think we just have to see how it plays out. I think it's too early. I think we need to see how individuals views and what they're promising, how it develops throughout their campaigns. If somebody is obviously starting out in the beginning, they're campaigning at Bitcoin Miami, they're very pro crypto. It's six months before the election and all of a sudden they stop talking about it.
I think it's very clear that that was just an initial vote grab. Yeah, I think that's been the case for sure. But I don't know, increasingly, I don't know. We just put out our own newsletter digging into this in terms of what the Ottawa Trucker example shows for people saying that this is real because I think a lot of people outside of crypto haven't even started to put the dots
together between what a CBDC can do if the government controls money and those on and off-ramps when it comes to how people can spend their money. You heard that from RFK Jr. mentioning that exact example is where this gets terrifying. I don't want to keep playing all these clubs, but this will be the last one to be played from Bitcoin Miami. RFK Jr. on the idea of CBDCs. Take a look.
There you go. I mean, I think that that's
a pretty powerful line from one of the leading democratic challengers. I don't think anyone's ever unseated, unsat challenged the actual incumbent. So I don't know if our case, you know, has any real chance to do so. That being said, we're dealing with one of the oldest would be candidates in history, I believe, as Biden runs again.
And why do we always end our shows on people dying? I didn't say anybody's gonna die. I just said I did all of our space is always end with hey someone might die out there. It's always it always ends on a dark note Ariel save us please Now to wrap this one up. I saw news article just coming out today that the European Central Bank
is examining its own CBDC, it's finalizing digital Europrototypes as development decision looms. It seems like kind of in a similar stage to the US where we're exploring, we're figuring certain things out, but there haven't been any concrete moves to actually create a CBDC or put these plans into action. Yeah, that's true. But it's incredibly
increasingly one of the things that i think i don't know if american voters care yet because they haven't really put those points together aerial but it does seem like we're already seeing the candidates talk about c_b_d_c_'s as government control uh... yeah and i mean i i wish i didn't agree with them but i do i think it's going to be interesting to see how fed now rolls out was i i believe that's coming when to lie
In the summer, the plans for Fed now have been working on it for so long, the Boston Fed leading the charge on what could happen in terms of the inner bank transfers, how fast that could happen. And I think that sets the CBDC research up for the next leg. But yes, it's one and then leads to the other. You wanted me to say something lighthearted. So I just all I'm going to say
I'm disappointed it fed now the name personally. The UK has brick coin as there. That is nice. I'm fortunate that means Britney Spears can't launch her own cryptocurrency either.
I'm sorry, I'm no lawyer had here. Me being if I would die I would buy all of it. I don't care if it was financially. We found the skirmic one. We found the meme coin that would finally get Ariel. We found it. It was pretty. I'm in. It was brick clean all along. We're gonna wrap that one there. Ariel, I appreciate you come back on every time you're driving.
one time we'll get you when you're not driving because you know I will I will make plans to be a little bit more available around you and if you guys like to have me on I enjoy one of my favorite spaces and you know thank you guys as always of course thank you and thank you to our head writer Zach Abrams as always as well and thank you to our NFT holders who make this show possible you can cone this now
with us here at Coindage.media and as always watch the latest episode now streaming on YouTube.