I do not think I will just test the mic
and give Colin a sec to come up.
And before we get started, I typically, by the way,
this is Noah from Moby Media.
Jenny has graciously invited me to be the main host today.
So thank you, Jenny, for putting this together,
would love to first get some guest introductions
from the different panelists that are up here,
who you are, what you do, maybe a little background.
And then we can dive into kind of a high level overview
from the guests of whoever wants to jump in,
what D-Pen is and why it's important.
And after that, we can dive into nuts and bolts
and all the questions that Jenny has diligently prepared.
Let's go with, I see Seth with the mic on cue,
so we can start with you.
I'm Nick, and I've been in this technology business
So D-Pen is one of those things that we've seen before,
new technology that creates a tremendous amount of excitement
and is absolutely the future.
My history is I was at Oracle back in the early days,
and I lived through the IoT years.
Now we have decentralized computing
and the D-Pen whole system.
And as a founder of SES, our whole focus
has been to reshape the value distribution
This is really important to also maintain
and ensure data sovereignty and data privacy.
This was the promise that I saw in 1995
when the internet came out, but we didn't get it.
And now I see with Web 3 and with D-Pen
Specifically, SES is a blockchain powered decentralized
storage and content delivery network infrastructure
It's a very sophisticated system.
Think the likes of any big framework,
any big basically platform,
leveraging all the components of Web 3.
So with SES, users and creators alike
can use our platform for on-chain data sharing,
and then builders can develop and deploy dApps.
We offer really an extraordinarily optimal
Web 3 solution for the enterprise,
for the large organizations that are requiring
high frequency dynamic data.
And certainly we're utilizing a D-Pen model.
Therefore, we will drive mass development
and deployment of network nodes globally
through an incentive program,
which we'll get into a lot more detail on this,
Beautiful. Thank you, Nick.
Metablocks, do you want to go next?
Thank you for everybody who's joined here.
I'm the CMO at Metablocks.
And personally, I've been into crypto
since about seven years now.
I've done a lot of things in crypto.
I've also been a writer for a crypto magazine,
been with a lot of projects
and now working and building with Metablocks
At Metablocks, we're trying to build
one global Wi-Fi roaming network,
which is built by the community
and owned by the community,
which is for the community.
So let me just give a quick brief overview.
And of course, we can dig deep.
So nowadays, Wi-Fi users like us face many problems
such as repetitive login processes
where we want to join Wi-Fi.
We need to go to settings, do all of that stuff.
Sometimes we even have to reveal our personal information
and maybe some users can get hacked
And as I said, public Wi-Fi is essentially not that safe.
So we believe Metablocks is the answer
App users, the Metablocks app users
don't really need to provide their private information
or go through all the lengthy processes.
They can just install the app, make a DID,
which is a decentralized ID,
and be able to seamlessly connect
to all the Wi-Fi roaming nodes that are around the world
and that we're going and building every day.
And yeah, thank you for joining.
I would love to elaborate on this as we go on.
Yeah, I will go next year.
I'm the founders of EMC Hmetrix Computings.
So what we are actually building,
it's a native Japan GPU networks.
it is unlike other aggregated of GPU services,
what we are building is really the network
is going to take the GPU power and convert it into few
that power the future of AI applications.
So a bit of my backgrounds,
I had a history of working with as an executive
for Dell Technologies, Hero Packet Enterprise,
and my latest and the one with AWS
running their global account businesses.
That kind of gave me a wealth of background
as well as different technology stack and blockchains.
And we see that opportunities of the gap between demand
and supply and GPU market.
And we see a huge pile of demand coming from the AI
which is why EMC was founded and built,
Our goals is to come together
that's going to feel the powers of AI development.
And then we have the punch,
if I'm pronouncing that correctly.
Sure, that's good enough.
Hey, everyone, I'm also Nick,
and I'm the co-founder of DFI.
We are building the DFI developer infrastructure
I was the PhD student at Harvard,
and right now I drop out to do Web3.
And so what DFI does is we are basically a messaging layer.
So basically, we want to...
We see the pinpoint of DFI right now.
It's like the development cost of DFI project
is really high because you need to connect
your hardware to the blockchain.
And so what DFI does is we are a messaging layer.
So it basically helps all the DFI projects
So basically helping all the hardware
so that everyone can launch their DFI projects really fast.
And we started the project at the end of November last year,
and we just closed our seed round.
And right now we are incubating a few applications
and we are also giving our grants to our projects.
Very nice meeting everyone
and looking forward to the discussion.
and I am the co-founder of Future Money Group.
Future Money Group is an investment firm
with a focus on real-world applications
we are fully dedicated to sectors such as Dping,
RWA, and the future type of work.
We invest across the stacks of Dping.
So basically, we have deployments.
We deploy in different networks,
including DY networks, storage networks.
We're also a big developer and a deployer in Helium network.
We invest in hardware manufacturers.
who manufactures hardware for demo,
and used to be a manufacturer of Bobcat for Helium miners.
And also, we do invest in the primary market.
Recently, we have built a new accelerator with IoTeX.
We hope to see a couple of new Dping projects
And also, we have a secondary liquid fund.
We just launched our Dping index,
which follows and tracks almost 25 plus Dping tokens,
and we provide liquidity.
We provide all sorts of secondary market trading,
investment services to Dping projects.
So that's basically what we do.
Lucas, and I'm currently running the incubation program at HTX.
So basically, we are the incubation arm of HTX Exchange,
and we're just here to support the founders
and teams that are on their very early stage.
And personally, I have a background
in venture found and Bitcoin mining.
So Dping also being very excited to me,
since it's also very hardware focused.
And I was introduced to Dping through Helium,
just like most other people.
And by that time, I was really surprised
by the growth of how quickly Helium
is spreading the network, spreading the snow.
So I started to dig deeper to Helium by being a miner.
And I could really see the potential in using token
to incentivize individuals to build up the network.
So anyway, really happy to be here.
And last but not least, Colin.
I've recently come on to the Dping network.
So I'm a bit newer than some of the co-founders here,
but I'm currently a meme manager for PowerPod.
And I'm just happy to be here and get to meet everybody else.
And so like several of you said,
a lot of us are familiar with Helium.
I've interviewed them twice,
and I suppose that's the first example
of a real-world Dping use case,
where you have in the case of the OG Helium hotspots or devices,
these devices being put all over as high
as you can get them out in the boonies for coverage.
And I know there's different examples
of what those use cases are,
but one that stuck with me was being able to track
or rather keep secure expensive equipment on a construction site
that otherwise might be far more pricey
with traditional methods.
And now we're seeing the hotspots
for the mobile network blow up as well,
and people are installing those everywhere.
So I would love to know from some of the panel members
what your definition of decentralized physical infrastructure
really means and what are some practical use cases, right?
So we know about Helium, as I mentioned,
but I'm sure there's a lot more that can be done
with kind of this new or rather this growing,
this newly growing sector of the industry.
But by the way, I mean, if you guys want to raise hands,
I typically host these things like a Socratic style panel.
Yeah, I'm going to raise hands
because I have a meeting afterwards.
And as investor, I think this is a bread and butter for me.
Every day, me and my team, we talk about what does BP mean
and can there be a better term?
Or probably can we be wrong?
Can we be just in a huge buzzword FOMO
that is actually kind of like distracted
by these hot name tokens?
And we begin to identify there are several missing puzzles
So for us, I think DPIM, first of all,
there are several categories we think
can fall into the word DPIM.
The first one is decentralized compute, right?
So if you pay attention to all the computing stacks,
all the computing hardwares of traditional world,
they are highly centralized.
Taking Amazon cloud as example,
if you want to compute something,
if you want to, let's say,
if you want to rent the cloud
and the cost of running a cloud
is actually three times more expensive in Africa
compared to Eastern America,
compared to New York, the data center, right?
So that's why in a lot of cases,
we see a lot of Ethereum nodes,
they're actually wrong in Europe and in America,
whereas there are very, very few nodes
in other parts of the world.
I think that is because we don't have likewise,
similarly cheap and strong facilities
we think all the consumer level hardwares
need to be decentralized for everybody
to afford a personal computer.
And that can only help people reach the state
of sovereign individuals.
And in the very soon future,
we believe that Ethereum is actually pushing
for a new, actually a new innovation
that actually allows you to put your Ethereum light node
into a smartwatch or any other smart devices.
you can truly decentralized your Ethereum node
in your daily consumer level devices.
And I think this is really exciting.
So decentralized computer for us
is definitely something that we will have to see
and this is something definitely DP.
But we see very, very few innovations in this area.
The second one is how do you allocate resources
across different geography,
especially in the politically tensioned environment
Say for example, the US, the China,
and the GPU resources are scarce.
And for a lot of new startups,
to access this computing power.
And if we can build something more
like a decentralized computing network
that can actually benefit these startups
and actually can ignore the barrier
or different geographical locations,
I think this is something
that's going to be an interesting thing
If you don't live in a country
that actually don't have ample electricity
you won't even recognize,
okay, there's a problem there.
I went to California last summer,
I still encounter Black House,
I still encounter in some parts of Palo Alto,
there's no wireless connection.
So imagine that to be 100 times more intense
in Africa or in Southeast Asia.
So how do we use Pilkin incentivized layer
to build a better and more covered,
spread out, distributed hardware infrastructure
to provide such civil services,
infrastructure for people.
I think that is another category.
how do we actually use data
and use blockchain and tokens
to create some new tasks.
For example, how do we decentralize Uber?
How do we decentralize DoorDash?
How do we create new jobs
like Axe Infinity did, right?
Axe Infinity created this incredible job
who can make over 300 bucks a month.
And that's incredible for the local people.
And imagine this type of new type of work
being created by token networks, right?
And this has very little to do with speculation,
but with real world tasks and jobs
that people can really complete
and people can just work for the crypto network
instead of work for corporations.
I think this is a third direction,
third category that we're interested to go down
there are three sub-categories of dipping.
So decentralize infrastructure,
incentivization to set up that infrastructure.
I don't know if I can quite get
with the Axe Infinity analogy,
you mentioned the Ethereum smart nodes
being able to run on a watch-like device.
Is that something that's going to be implemented
sometime in the near future?
You're going to be able to stake 32 ETH
to a smart node running on a watch-like device?
You don't even need 32 ETH.
You just need probably two ETH.
with the protocols out there,
you can largely decrease the number,
in terms of number of ETH
you're going to stake with, right?
You can probably do that with two ETH
or probably in the soon future
Vitalik just posted an article
that there are going to be basically
two types of two tiers of stakers.
The first one is more like the stakers,
The second layer is more like clients,
more like massive consumers
who are like the verifiers,
what we call them, the validators, right?
And you can run live validator node
that are actually compatible
with consumer-level hardware.
And that is going to decentralize LIDO.
That is going to decentralize Amazon cloud.
So if you look at the cloud hardware layer of Ethereum,
it's still very, very centralized.
It's actually Amazon-backed blockchain, right?
So if you look at all the data centers
that's backing up Ethereum,
40% of them are in Germany, Ireland, and New York,
So if anything happens to these data centers,
either physically or any other geopolitically,
what happens to Ethereum is a very dangerous question.
The only way to decentralize this
is to decentralize the hardware layer.
So this is something going to happen.
And also for the Xinfinity analogy,
what I'm referring to is,
we're looking at projects that it is very hard to,
it's very hard to explain,
but it's like you can play the game
and you can basically control a robot
that actually do food delivery for your customers.
And we just saw a project like this.
And in one of the DP parties,
we think these types of ideas could be better
and could be better iterated
and can finally arrive at something
that define the future of job
for a young generation of people.
So we'll put, Alex, go for it.
I'm sorry, interrupt you.
Yeah, yeah, Nick, I mean, I'm just getting very excited
because all the thesis that we just talked about,
yeah, I thought I wanted to share something
because this is basically all related
building a cloud solutions comparable to AWS is complicated
I know how exactly that this thing got set up,
expensive, huge investment.
And motivate that the technology stack
that we are using today on delivering web services
So in a way, I think that the best opportunity
first of all, the way I look at it,
it has to be a pretty native economic.
So I like the ideas of Helium.
Actually, I've been following Helium for a while.
So what we are actually seeing here
is just like having a decentralized infrastructures
of a connectivity network like Helium,
what we are building is the pin network for GPU.
And it's a native models.
The reason why I would try to explain it
is because if you look at web services,
the stack is complicated.
But if you look at AI application and workload,
it's actually much simpler.
What is actually cover is like,
you have a lot of training context of the models,
a lot of training data that you needed to train your models.
When you run an inferences, it's basically,
you know, technically it's actually offline.
So you do not require to have a very robust,
high, you know, interactive stack, just like AWS.
So building an infrastructures of GPU
that power the AI models looks like viable solutions.
And the way we look at it is, it's absolutely right.
It's actually off track, right?
You have one hand people screaming for expensive H100 clusters,
like people like Facebook this come,
I say that I want to buy 600,000 of this H100,
which is not affordable for anyone starting from startup
But what we actually seeing here is on the other hand,
there's actually a counterproof of why deep pin will work here.
It's because if you look at Ethereum models,
the peak of hash rate before the POS switch
is actually calculated about 27 million graphic cards, right?
And then on one hand, this graphic cards
because they're no longer profitable mining.
But in our view, recycling or repurposing this graphic cards
to provide GPU powers to run AI models, inferences,
And then because this is a counterproof
that if you build the pin models,
the tokenomics that can sustain that,
putting the demand supplies in that market,
literally you have limitless computer's powers, right?
there's this demand for computing powers.
So you provide your computing GPU to support this.
And it's just like mining,
instead of mining the hash rate,
which is literally doesn't generate value
What we're actually doing now
is we're actually processing and running workloads.
And it works pretty much like a POW,
you get your rewards needed,
just like very similar tokenomics model of helium.
I think regarding actually infinity,
honestly, I think this is right to some extent,
we need to create more opportunities for people to come in.
So technically, the DPN level
that we are building on GPU networks,
quite a low cost solutions for GPUs.
I will use AWS as an example,
to actually use the EC2 instant P3, EC2 instant,
which is equivalent to one V100 graphic cards.
It costs us around $1.5 to $2 per hour.
Well, it's varying across different geographic reasons.
But if you're providing something
very similar computing power
that can run similar AI workloads,
technically using our RTX 3090,
in this DPN level, it costs 1.10 of the cost or the price.
So this is where we are coming from.
We are repurposing the abundance or RTX card
and make it capable of running similar solutions
with a cost, a fraction of the cost, which is 10%.
And that's kind of lowering a significant verifantry.
And added to that affinity context,
we are building an AI plus web tree developer ecosystem.
We've actually built platforms
that are providing serverless context.
that enabling a serverless deployment
I would like to compare it to a web tool models,
which is Huggingface, Huggingface Plus, SageMaker of AWS.
So this network that we are building
would have that capability,
allowing people to bring the open source models,
and then just use a serverless deployment
and you can also get reward by participating in networks.
So by itself, it's a self-sustaining kind of economy,
And that's what largely opened up,
you know, the innovation,
imaginations for people in a different world,
people in Southeast Asia,
which is where we located, I'm in Singapore.
We know that there are a lot of talented people.
They wanted to start their venture in AI,
but there's just literally no chance
of securing the fun of buying the expensive GPU.
So what we are doing now,
we are encouraging people to come in
with these low cost solutions.
We will give them grant and support.
We want to activate the entire community to help them,
and eventually allowing people to come in,
continue, contribute to build.
And our dream or the visions that we are foreseeing,
it's a different version of decentralized,
And eventually, it's all powered by a Dapin network.
And because it's already counter-proofed that,
you have the demand that continue to grow,
so computing power is limitless.
So technically, 27 million that we use to mine Ethereum,
it could be something that we are foreseeing
in the near future that used to power
the decentralized AI models.
And yeah, I think just a few thoughts
that I thought that would be interesting to share.
You know, I am so excited about what's already been shared.
I've been doing a lot of these events,
and I would say some of the articulation tonight
is some of the best articulation I've heard.
I actually take this at a very high level,
and I appreciate where everybody's coming from.
You know, after seeing many, many iterations of technology
over the past 40 years, in my books,
and you said upfront, is Dapin a good word?
because I think it is the absolute future
of what is gonna happen with Web3.
It is an evolution or revolution
from the whole thinking of IoT,
and it's certainly a massive investment opportunity.
Specifically, we go back 15 years,
everyone's like, why does everything have to connect
And today, we don't even take it for granted.
I mean, we just say, of course, of course.
Well, it's the same thing here.
Every single node that could be possibly out there
plugging into the blockchain, in essence.
And there was some really great articulation
of categories and so forth, but if you think about it,
it basically provides, you know,
a way for massive numbers of organizations
to get into the Web3 token economy.
You know, you take a look at our currencies today,
decentralized currencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum
It's hard to acquire a lot.
I mean, a corporation can't go in
and buy $2 million of Bitcoin.
And so, for people to really participate
in the future of what Web3 is,
and more importantly, the Web3 economics
and the tokenization of this whole world,
this is where Deepin, I believe, fundamentally plays.
Because we can, and everyone's been giving
some really great examples of this on this call,
but you really think about everybody can participate.
It can be a country down in South America
that just has everybody participating in this way.
And at SES, we look at it that way.
You know, we are absolutely, as I said, up front,
part of this, and, you know, we really, really want
to show all the different dimensions
to what Deepin is truly all about.
You know, we've thought through,
this is not just, SES is not just about
It's about this entire ecosystem
that we're talking about in this call.
So we have tons of technology
that makes all this work,
and it is very difficult to make these things happen.
As the gentleman spoke from EMC,
you know, it is not easy when you start thinking about
how do you really use a fully decentralized system?
But the thing that's really interesting about this
it is an absolute way for everybody to get in
involved with Web3 economics.
You know, we're not living at it.
And so, as was said, you know,
small GPU systems can participate.
And this makes it extremely exciting,
you know, when you start thinking about
how data is truly valued.
You know, I mentioned up front,
you know, when 1995 came around, I was so excited.
I said, finally, we control our data.
You know, it has been in corporations
that it was being passed between corporations.
Now we had this internet thing where
I thought I was sending my data to someone else
and everything I did was mine.
And well, that couldn't be further from the truth
We truly got centralized systems
and we have systems out there that, you know,
basically completely control our data and own our data.
And so this decentralized world,
and specifically the way SES is built it out
by having all these different technologies
we are collaborating with everybody in the Web3 world
because the Web3 world, the decentralized world
is an evolution from the centralized
because it's going to bring in the centralized world
It's going to, a fully decentralized system
means that Web2 and Web3 cooperate together.
It means everyone's coming together.
And the most important part here for us to win
is for us all to work collectively together.
So I just really applaud the statements
that were made in this call so far.
And I could not agree more.
And SES is absolutely the foundational element,
you know, to make sure that you can participate
in this type of ecosystem.
Well, we have some fantastic speakers on tonight.
I want to take a moment here to pause before we pivot
and kind of encourage the audience
to follow everyone up here.
I mean, this is some of the best education
you're going to get on this topic.
And I'm sure a lot of these folks tweet
and they join other spaces.
And I think it would be a waste
to not at least get them on your followers
and see what else they're involved in.
I want to kind of bundle the next few questions together,
One, from a VC perspective, why D-pin?
And then also, if you think about the idea
of a decentralized physical infrastructure networks,
they've been here for a long time.
And as several speakers have already highlighted,
we've talked about Helium.
If you think about Filecoin and Arweave,
which launched in 2017 for decentralized storage,
this isn't a new thing, but it is starting to catch wind.
And I have more recently been seeing a lot of publications,
whether it's from Coindesk or Coindelegraph or The Block,
So again, for VCs, why D-pin?
And also, generally speaking, why invest in D-pin now?
Why is it doing so well right now?
Or rather, why is it being talked about so much today?
Yes, that's a super interesting question,
I believe, and we at Metablocks believe,
D-pin has never been laid to invest in.
If you really think about it,
we have been working on infrastructure
since humans basically started to build something.
We have cars, but we still wanna upgrade them.
We have wifi, we still wanna upgrade them.
We have roads, we still wanna upgrade them.
We research, we put in money.
So D-pin and infrastructure has never been something
which is kind of late to invest in.
In terms of why now, as you mentioned,
there have been some projects since 2017 and stuff.
The space has matured a lot.
We have built amazing things on the blockchain,
but back in the day, there was a lot of,
for example, people were interested in meme coins,
people were interested in NFTs.
But in terms of like maturing,
people have now started to look into real world use cases.
we believe is like one of the biggest real world use cases.
We're building and bringing all the wifi's all together,
bringing them into one app so that users can use it.
There's like 5 billion wifi devices in the world.
So this is actually a real world use case
where users can hop on from the web two
onto the web three space.
So infrastructure has always been growing
Humans will always evolve into new bigger things.
And this is something that we will maintain.
This is something that we will build nonstop.
And this is something that all the fellow projects here
on this spaces will work on and keep on building
and improving with the improvement in technology improvement
and blockchain and with the bigger and better things
that are supposed to come in the future.
Beautiful, anyone else wanted to add that?
Okay, so then I can follow up.
Nick, I just have one more point to add here.
I think from investment perspective,
we have actually look into that different perspective here
especially for expensive gears like GPUs.
So we are actually part of something like
Defy RWA for GPU clusters,
which allow people to actually build
sizable cluster of GPU, like H100 clusters
and then offered as a Defy products
where people can actually invest in part of it
and join the returns of this investment.
it's actually allowing the financing perspective
of funding to build this expensive gears and clusters.
they're allowing retail investors to come in
and to participate in building GPU networks for Dipin.
Yeah, just make two cents to share.
Yeah, I might add to that just quickly.
The fact is that what I was saying about
how does Web3 token economy really happen?
We all have to be working together.
This is the way it's defined Dipin right now
and the word and everything.
This is in my books, the monetization of Web3.
And whenever there's a true monetization happening,
then that's a tremendous investment opportunity.
And I think that's the biggest thing that's driving it.
just like we did back at the beginning of the internet,
just like we've seen in any initial work
the first people coming out with something that sounds good
and is logical is getting a lot of attention,
which explains the attention
we've been talking about on this call.
But what really matters is how,
and I loved, I think it was you Alex that mentioned this
or Nick, the importance of categorizing this
so that we can really understand it better
so that then we really can make wiser investments.
ensure that the partnerships really work effectively.
We're very focused on partnerships at SAS,
as you can imagine, being a foundational offering
and really helping that value add
when it comes to the value of the data.
So to us, the education and the amount of information
we put out there is critical.
We all have to be doing that together
for this vision to come together in a great way
that does it fundamentally become something
and give good returns to investors
and give good value to the consumers
that are basically using the technology.
Gentlemen, we've highlighted this several times
over the course of the broadcast.
And even I think, apart from Code Boy,
several others have highlighted the advantages
of decentralized infrastructure over centralized ones.
That being said, centralized companies
are the biggest competitor of Deepin.
And ultimately it is the end product
and price that matters to the customer.
We've seen that time and time again.
I mean, you can even look at blockchains right now
that are extremely centralized,
but no one cares because people want
fast and cheap and convenient.
So how is being a decentralized product or service producer
giving you the edge in terms of Deepin,
giving you the edge over a centralized one in the long run?
I'm glad to jump in again if no one else is.
You guys don't have to ask.
Everyone jump in and they all go up to you.
I think that I sound like I'm a broken record a little bit,
but seeing all these evolutions of technology,
I always look at if it's almost like a big spring.
And as you go up, you sort of see things
you've seen before, but it's going upwards
so it really is different.
And I think we've seen this many, many times before.
And typically what is happening here
is the centralized companies don't want,
or I would say the ones that are going to stay centralized
and not evolve are going to put their heels in
and they're going to want to be competitive
with whatever we offer in the world of web three.
But fundamentally, the great ones,
and I think we have some on the call today,
and at Cess we're working with companies
like Amazon Web Services that are, I think, way advanced.
Google's doing the same thing.
They're really figuring out
that these things have to interoperate.
And so you said it was about price.
I would rephrase that slightly and say
it's about the value and the price.
We have to show, I think,
to all of the organizations out there
that we are actually able to deliver a tremendous value
through a decentralized solution.
I think it also ties into what I was saying upfront
The token economy is so powerful
and I feel we're not sometimes talking enough about that
and we're getting to folks on the technology side
because it's a token economy
that will actually bring down the value over time
So I think it's all about the long-term play here,
but, and I totally feel that the centralized world
is part of the decentralized world as we move forward
and we have to interoperate.
And to us, it's extremely exciting
and we love this opportunity partnership,
but I don't see the competition aspect,
but I do see the importance, as I sum this up,
of ensuring that we're providing great value
for the money that we will be
or the value that we're delivering
in terms of the tokenization.
That has to be there and if the value is longer term,
we have to articulate that to our customer base
because this is where we're taking you.
And if you look at the people that jumped
into client server technology,
jumped into web technology early on,
it wasn't cost-effective at the beginning,
but it certainly was cost-effective long-term.
So we as a community need to stay very focused
on what this is going to mean once this is all built
and the cost-effectiveness of that.
Yeah, I'm just going to jump in here a little bit on that.
I think cost-effectiveness is definitely a mandate on that,
given that the decentralized
and actually leveraging tokenomics,
it's really like leverage.
But having said that, being running the business,
the business union and P&L for AWS,
what I want to comment is,
in this market of technologies and infrastructures,
it's a huge spectrum of different type of customers, right?
And especially in the space that we are in,
you're talking about all this big boy
and literally anyone in the middle and towards the long tail,
you have no chances of success
in the futures of AI evolutions.
And we don't like that, right?
So basically, you need to be affordable,
decentralized solutions, whereas permissionless to use,
and you make it available for people
to choose a more effective solution,
because literally, from one point of view,
you don't need to have machine guns
to cure the curing animals, right?
You can use different tools,
and you don't need an H100 to run a stable diffusion,
and you could actually go over lower grade cards
but you save like 90% of the cost.
That's one part of the competitive age that we're offering.
Secondly, because it's decentralized
and it's actually permissionless,
again, you should not limit the people to come in, right?
Remove about, forget about all the sentence from governments,
because we are decentralized.
Anyone should have their permission to be able to use GPU,
to come up with the ideas and innovation
that allow people for better futures.
I think that's another way to look at it.
what I also share is the futures of AI business models
If you look at what chat GPT is doing,
literally they're selling computing power.
It's just a computing power plus models
and plus or whatever API calls that you made
from a chat GPT, literally are buying computing powers.
So I think there are innovative solution
from the web tree tokenomics perspective,
instead of doing it by and seller relationship
like you're buying AWS services,
you train your models and you offer your models at a cost,
which is literally big part of it paid to AWS as a supplier.
We could have innovative model in a web tree tokenomics
where you actually have GPU power
as part of the code build process.
And at the same time, look at it in a way
that if you are going to make $1 in the futures
with your innovative AI applications,
it could be just like 50% of your profit
is from you and then 20% go to the GPU nodes providers
and then 20% go to those who actually brought you customers
like Inferences, KOL, the network,
rather than buying it from Google
or buying the traffic from Facebook.
It's a different world in a web tree context.
Everything should be in the core building economies,
especially when we're talking about the future of AI.
And this is what we are foreseeing in the future.
And that's way more advantage
than just having a traditional infrastructure provider
selling their cloud services, selling their storage,
It should be a code build models in our decentralized models
and it's in a dipping world.
That's my two stands of thought.
Yeah, I just wanted to add like to the point
what Alex and Nicholas mentioned,
I agree with them, it's the cost effectiveness,
But I also believe with decentralization,
it ensures that the users have control
and the ever evolving preferences of the users,
we adopt to it according to it and we build on top of it.
That's why decentralization is way more important
when you compare to centralized companies,
selling products, selling services.
For example, with the Metablox protocol,
we have decentralized rooted in it.
We are basically a community built,
community driven approach.
And that's the best feature that decentralized
And that's why we really believe
like Deepin will be the future
and Deepin will take away all the control
from the centralized companies.
And that's why we're their biggest competitors.
Gentlemen, I wanna be cognizant of your time.
I'm not sure if you have a hard stop
but we have a couple more questions to get through
and then we can kind of maybe ask some additional ones
But impact of AI and smart devices,
I think this was already mentioned as far as the latter,
but impact of AI and smart devices
on the development and competition of Deepin.
Would love to know what your thoughts are on that.
Yeah, I've shared most part of it in the previous question,
but literally, I think there's a lot of innovation
that need to be taken into consideration, right?
It's the relationship on Deepin and web trees
no longer is a traditional buyer and seller.
So in this perspective, it's like,
it's a co-building economies, right?
Basically, you let the supply and demand decides
how it goes and set the prices.
I think on one hand, you have to centralize models
where AWS, Googles, they tend to monopolize
and control the price of their servers.
And if you talk to 90% of your customer,
they probably tell you that yeah, AWS is expensive.
So in the real world economies,
if you have this Deepin solutions decentralized coming up
where people can actually work together
to find the best price balance on the network.
And like what I've quoted much earlier,
in Deepin, the tokenomic itself
would actually draw in enough supply
and limitless supplies to fulfill the demand.
Because Ethereum has already proved that, right?
Basically, if you have enough demand,
minor was just coming and providing your notes,
whether it's storage or whether it's computing
or whether it's GPU and the supply and demand
is a real reflection of where this real economy
or the real world is going to come in the future.
And in one word, I think when I say think of the impact
of AI and smart devices on the development of Deepin,
I mean, we've already talked earlier about the fact
that every smartphone, every smart device
is gonna be plugged into web three.
That does also mean that every AI process
can plug in to the web three and the blockchains.
So this is, from an impact standpoint,
I see this as one of the fastest reasons
why decentralized solutions need to emerge
at even a faster rate than they are
because the speed at which AI and smart devices
continue to evolve is very significant.
I mean, most of us are running around
with one terabyte phones.
That's a lot of storage right there
if we think about decentralized storage.
But specifically, here are some ways.
I mean, we're certainly gonna enhance,
and I think some of these things have been talked about,
but I thought I'd just give you
a little bit of a list here.
Enhanced network efficiency and performance.
I think that's been talked about and very much the case.
Improving the user experience and service quality.
Another major driving force.
Innovation in data management and analysis.
Going back to that most important thing
that we own our data, we control our data.
Security and privacy enhancements.
I mean, one of the biggest things
that we haven't talked about is
what are some of the concerns about D-pin?
You have to have an extraordinarily secure
and private solution if you're gonna start
putting electric grids into D-pin.
And so, yes, we're talking about storage,
and we're talking about some of the obvious ones,
but when you really go beyond
and you look at all the different places
that D-pin can plug into,
security is a very, very key piece of that.
Facilitation of new business models and revenue streams.
I mean, 10 years ago, we never heard
about the subscription industry.
Today, it's pretty much everywhere.
What's gonna now happen with a combination
of AI and smart devices that can unlock
new business models for D-pin?
Greater accessibility and inclusivity.
This is incredibly important.
I've been sharing the importance
of everybody being able to plug in,
and we've shared how some parts of the world
still aren't plugged in, and so that becomes
an incredibly good and big opportunity,
and then the challenges and considerations,
as I started to talk about with security,
there's a lot we have to do together
to make sure that these decentralized systems
are gonna work extremely well,
and that will take all of us working together closely
to ensure that we're delivering something of great value,
just like a centralized company
would provide that as a standoff.
We are now a distributed group that have to work together
and create that same, of all the things I just mentioned,
that same umbrella to all of it,
but by working together, we deliver that,
and most importantly, in that situation,
we do control everything ourselves,
which is what we wanna do.
It's a great point regarding electrical grids.
As soon as you said electrical grids and privacy,
I'm like, oh my gosh, yeah, there's certain things
that you need to make sure our secures can possibly be,
because they could mean life and death
for thousands of millions of people.
That kind of leads me to the next question, right?
What are some advice that you guys can give folks
who want to start building in deep in,
or building this sort of infrastructure,
and then more importantly,
what kind of challenges might they potentially face?
I'd like to chip in with this one.
Well, I believe that the biggest challenge they might face
and they need to work upon is identifying the market needs.
We have fellow projects here, Seth, and everybody,
they're working on something
that's really required in the market.
And we at Manabox identified these problems,
and these issues that we need to work upon.
And Nicholas mentioned, we need to work together
to make sure that everybody is,
especially the people are benefiting from this.
And I believe that the biggest challenge they will face,
and I guess the other projects here face too,
is the lack of education about deep in,
and about the whole infrastructure-based economy
towards the new people and the new users
So we need to build together,
we need to help each other,
and we need to educate people so that they can grow together.
Yeah, Nick, I'm gonna chip in with two points.
Sir, I think Dipin, one point,
Dipin is actually a real economy.
It's a physical infrastructure.
It's just using tokenomics to put it together.
you need to have a supply and demand in mind,
meaning that don't focus on building something,
pulling in a lot of supply.
Well, you could reference it to a lot of projects.
Even Falco has the same problem.
You have way too many people providing storage,
but you just don't have enough.
But I'm sure that eventually the demand is gonna come up
and a few of the storage,
which created a balance on the pricing.
But when you're building a Dipin project,
I think it's important to have the supply and demand in mind,
and the tokenomics need to design
around how you could start a balance
between inflation and deflations,
and showing that there's equilibrium,
which is a real practice of economy one-on-one
So that's point number one.
And I think point number two is technically,
we need to allow people to have innovations
in terms of using the infrastructures.
all the users, they don't care about
whether you have Web2 or Web3,
or whether you have Dipin or you are just AWS, right?
What they care, it's the infrastructures that they can use,
and the services that they can enjoy,
just like using a Web2 services.
So I think the target of customer,
not necessarily need to be kind of the current Web3 customer.
We need to make our service as good as providing it,
just like people using it as a Web2 services.
And that was largely opened up.
A great, another great opportunity of pulling people
from Web2 into the real Web3.
And that's, I think just one way to summarize it,
that's a mass adoption of Web3.
And this is what we are actually aiming for
when we build the Dipin projects.
I couldn't have said that better myself.
But we're at the top of the hour, Jenny.
There's a couple more questions,
and I kind of wanted to end off with the first one
So this one is directed at SES specifically, right?
You mentioned, Nick, that you guys are using,
I think it's like an independent chain or a layer one.
And I think as far as I know,
HTX Ventures has invested into,
are we with storage, sorry.
I see some popular projects like Helium Mobile and Solana.
What should a project consider
when using their ecosystems or blockchains?
So, you know, actually SES is a blockchain.
We have a multi-architecture design
because we do see certain requirements
that require connection to existing blockchains
and then staying within a blockchain for some benefits.
The blockchain layer serves as an underlying protocol
for handling all transactions and contracts.
The storage resource layer and content distribution layer
work under the maintenance and operations
of our consensus miners, our storage miners,
our retrieval miners, and our caching miners
to implement a new mode of storage resource on chain.
On the top of this network
is a developer-friendly application support layer
that is not only supported by Wasm and EVM capability,
but also provides modular development tools,
So where I'm going here is, you know,
and I didn't touch on the prior question,
but I do think for people starting in,
one of the most important things is find someone
that has an extensive platform in D-Pin
and find a way how you can create a solution with them
if you're coming into this new.
If you're been in this for a while,
then as you look at your partnerships,
see what everybody else is doing
and see how we can help each other
because fundamentally this is working
because of the high desire to our mission of value-added,
or I should say value data,
keeping control of our own data,
and all the things we've been talking about.
And we can't even start to,
just think about passing information
from one blockchain to another and what happens.
All these things have to be really well-worked out
and we've spent years specifically focused
on this particular challenge
because we knew we wanted to deliver,
as I said earlier, high-frequency data.
That means being able to stream videos and audios
and that type of speed required us
to have this thinking of having a multi-architectural design
and allowing for all these things to happen together.
And gentlemen, last question from me,
and this is for everyone on the panel,
which industry or rather which sector
do you see D-PIN disrupting first?
Go ahead, Nick, I see your mic on cue.
I think I just didn't turn it off.
I think that the obvious one
is not the decentralized data storage.
It's the application which really takes advantage
of a full D-PIN world and an ecosystem.
And that is something that has been really exciting
for us because as of tomorrow, my time,
I think it's some people's 31st,
we are launching SES version 0.7.6 on the testnet.
And the reason I bring this up,
this is our 13th testnet version
and we've had over 40,000 testnet users
over the past three years,
but what has been really, really valuable about this
is that they've provided us great insights
on how they're using our platform, our infrastructure,
And then it is really all about this
thinking of a data value network
and how we can control that data
that made this all come together.
So we've got a lot of marketing stuff coming up.
I totally invite and probably let everybody else
do the same thing, but go to our Discord,
go to ses.cloud, go to GitHub,
and you're gonna see all that.
We just did an airdrop program this month.
We had 100,000 new wallets.
We are gonna do a SES DAO coming up here.
We've got our SES Genesis program
that's gonna be launching.
We're gonna do another airdrop coming up in February
and a huge D-cloud massive testing program
that's using our D-cloud.
Again, everybody has all these things going on,
but I'm gonna come back to find someone
Even if you're a big company,
find the partners you wanna partner with.
If you're a smaller company,
find the ones that you can take advantage of
with their extensive D-pin knowledge
and infrastructure already built that you can leverage.
And know that there is no competition
We are all working together towards
a very important mission, a very important vision
of having data value back in our hands again.
And I think I wanted to, for the reason you're at the end,
wanted to get step on up.
Just one thing to add to close up where we are.
We just launched our retreat testnet on EMC.
And then we actually launched our current economics
on arbitrary one network.
We personally supporting ICP,
which we are going to continue to support.
And I think technically D-pin network need to be opened up
where we'd be able to support multi-change
and we will have plan to support other network as well
in order for us to really grow them beyond the limit
of building a truly inter-operative D-pin infrastructures.
So Nicholas, love to talk to you on the partnership.
If anyone else has anything to add
regarding the last question,
Otherwise we can start wrapping things up.
If folks have any concluding thoughts for this space,
go ahead and share them now.
Otherwise it's been a pleasure.
I don't typically host this late.
So I want to thank everyone for sticking with me.
Jenny, thank you again so much for putting this together.
It was a pleasure taking the agenda that you,
so diligently through together
and asking some of these questions.
Cause I did not know a lot about D-pin.
I'm quite familiar with helium,
but I didn't recognize that there's so many other use cases
that are currently being explored.
And yeah, we don't have to do concluding thoughts either.
I know everyone's busy and it's probably early some places,
probably late other places.
If I had to guess, I'd say Nick is somewhere in the US,
but yeah, if anyone has any last thoughts,
feel free to share them now.
Otherwise Jenny, I'll pass it to you
and we can close things out.
Yeah, I'll just say, you know,
get ahold or you can DM me on at Seth.
And you know, I think it's all about us partnering together.
That's where and how Seth has gotten to where it has gotten
And we're there for everyone on this call.
It is our responsibility,
this community's responsibility for this to work
because it is absolutely essential to the future
Yeah, and again, give everyone up on stage a follow.
There's some very bright minds on here
and I'm sure they're gonna be doing other stuff
so you can keep up with their endeavors.
This is not a Moby media space.
This is an HTX venture space,
but I will give the typical Moby media disclaimer.
Remember that everything you hear on these broadcasts
is meant for educational purposes only.
Nothing is financial advice.
and we will see you all on the next one soon.
This is an amazing first space.
You have hosted really well
and thank you for all the speakers here today.
It's been amazing to hear all your thoughts
about the current stage of DM.
And what you guys are looking into in industry,
some risks, some of the things you guys are working towards
and really excited for the SAS
and EMC's collaboration, financial collaboration, definitely.
And yeah, get the community power going.
If there are no, any add-ons from the speakers,
I'll be concluding the tour space right now.
Thank you, thank you all.
Thank you guys for attending.