Welcome everybody, just give us a few minutes here to for everyone to roll on in. We'll get things started here. Very excited to be talking with the folks.
over at Teller so should be a very good AMA so make sure you guys share the space out send some tweets and let's get some more people in here and we'll be starting shortly.
Hello, welcome back. Sorry about last time there. I got my time's mixed up. I was on vacation. I was literally sitting in my car. I was in Vancouver and I was waiting to get on a ferry to go over the Vancouver.
I got an hour and then all of a sudden my person message me and was like, "You're A.M.A. starts in five minutes." I was like, "Oh shit." I was sitting in my car, and I said it up, and I did that first little bit of talking to you.
the ferry pulled out into the ocean it was just like all right so you're gone we got too far away from the towers I guess but we could we could re-schedule so for sure a lot lots of stuff that we can talk about so thanks for thanks for bearing with us
Of course, yeah, no, I mean last time you like just went mute and I was like like mid questions, so I just kind of like rambled for 10 minutes and then yeah if you if the host disconnects for
like a certain amount of time, it just ends the space automatically. But yeah, but we're back. So we'll give it a few minutes for some more people to roll on in here, send out some tweets, and then we'll get things started. Cool. Awesome.
Oh, and just FYI, I went today and added you guys to our cadena ecosystem.com website since you are now an official grantee of the cadena team and everything so you guys are all
set up on our rent for that as well. Nice. Yeah, you have to tweet out the link we can share. For sure, I'll get a tweet sent out. Yeah.
While we're waiting for people to join up, make sure everyone goes and checks out CadenaEcosystem.com is the website for all your Cadena needs. We have all the projects that are building on or have built on the Cadena ecosystem. We also have a calendar of all of our upcoming AABAs that we have scheduled so you can go and see who we're going to be talking about.
and the near future. And we also have a build section with job postings from different projects from around the Kedina ecosystem. So you may be able to find your dream job. So make sure you guys go and check that out. Also make sure you check out koala wallet.io. It is the passport wallet for all your
We are waiting for Apple to push through our latest releases, which I think we are getting very close and hopefully we will have that done in the next few days. They have been picking with things which is how
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Let's get into this today because there's lots to talk about. So welcome everybody to another AMA with Kadina ecosystem. Today we have the good folks from Teller. They are one of the newest Kadina grant team members and are building some really awesome tools that everyone's going to be able to take advantage of and use.
for their own purposes and their own dApps and whatever their needs may be. So I want to welcome you guys to the AMA. Thanks for coming back. Yeah, thanks for having us. All right, so why don't we just start with a quick little introduction about yourself and what Teller is all
about? Sure. So my name's Nick. I'm the CTO and one of the founders here at Teller. I think Brandon, Mike, are on as well. They're the other founders. But yeah, so we've been at Teller now for a while. So I kind of left my job and
2017 I was working as a regulator here in the US and we left to do derivatives on a blockchain and When we were doing derivatives if you know that's like futures and options contracts, which are you know common things here in DeFi now, but basically when you're doing a derivatives contract You can think of it
simply as like you're betting on the price of something. So, you know, if we're on a cadena week, we could lock some money into a smart contract and you get the money if the price of Bitcoin goes up, I get the money if the price of Bitcoin goes down. The problem that we quickly ran into when we were creating this originally on Ethereum,
was how do you know what the price of Bitcoin is? So the blockchain, kind of any blockchain system, there are all these closed ecosystem. So you can't go say, hey, you can't read an API from Coinbase or Binance, you need somebody to actually input this. And this is what's known as the Oracle problem. How do you actually know and validate
any outside information about the real world or other chains. And, you know, so this kind of put a halt on us building a derivatives platform because we were, you know, we're not just going to be a centralized Oracle and, you know, have this central choke point. It just didn't really fit with the ethos or what we were trying to build.
So we kind of did a little deep dive internally and tried to figure out how we could make a decentralized Oracle. And yeah, so we started building that in 2018 and then launched the first teller on main Net Ethereum in 2019 and then we've just kind of been
growing and expanding the Oracle network ever since and we're super happy that over the past six months we've been able to be building on cadana and come over there. Awesome. So for everyone listening who may not know what an Oracle is or how it works, can you maybe just give a brief description of that?
Yeah, so you know like I think the example I had given you know just if you have it's how to block chains or smart contracts more specifically get get access to outside information. You know you can think of the most simple Oracle is like well you can just trust somebody so
So, you know, Doug over at Cadena, we all trust him. Maybe we could just make him our Oracle. And he can go look at the price of Bitcoin on Coinbase and he can throw it into our smart context. Well, the problem there is, well, what if one of us bribes Doug or what if he dies? There could be issues
around that. So, you know, the next thing is, you know, you see some people have moved beyond just trusting the single person onto, we call, multi-sig or apples. So, you know, a lot of the space just relies on you, you know,
multi-sigga group of people who they all signed the message, you know, the price of Bitcoin is $20,000 and then they put it on chain and and this can sort of work, but it's it's still not quite a decentralized oracle. The way that that we solve this problem here at Teller
So we use the staking system. So anyone can come, it's completely open and you take the tellers open, which is TRB and you stake it into our smart contract. You are then able to be what's called a reporter. So once you have a bunch of reporters there, then a user of the smart contract say, "I
of this platform. Let's say they want the price of Bitcoin, they would tip or say, "Hey, I'll pay some small amount of money." Say, you know, a dollar for the example, to whoever puts the price of Bitcoin on chain. So now all of those state reporters will basically race to go grab the price of Bitcoin from Coinbase and put it on chain.
Once it's on chain, it's sort of this optimistic approach. So if it's a bad value, so let's say that the person who threw the price of Bitcoin on chain, if he said, hey, the price of Bitcoin is $20 million, what would happen is he would quickly get disputed. So all of the other reporters,
for the users would say, "Hey, it's not $20 million and they would raise the flag. The value would get pulled off chain and it would go to a vote as to whether or not he loses his stake." If it's a good value, however, the user would like, "Leave just wait, 5-10 minutes." They would be able to read that value, as soon as
since it didn't get disputed, it's likely good. And then they're off and they can settle their smart contracts. So that's how Taylor works in a nutshell. It's a relatively simple crypto-aeronica Oracle, but it's kind of how you can get any outside information on chain and completely trust
Now, when you say any outside information, you're mostly been talking about the price of cryptos and things like that, but could oracles be used for any other kinds of information? For example, if there was a sports betting platform,
on blockchain. Could someone use that for sports information or cool things like that? Completely. Yeah. So right now most oracles out there, the main thing you see them being used for is the prices of other cryptocurrencies from centralized exchanges. But there's
no reason that any oracle information has to be limited to prices. As you were saying sports betting, you could ask the tele-oracle who won the Lakers game last night or something like that and we could bring back the score. You could bring back an over-under price. Basically, the sky is the limit
as long as the only caveat as far as what data you can bring on is it has to be able to be known by everyone. So, since once you put it on chain, everyone has to be able to verify it. You wouldn't want something very esoteric that not a whole lot of people know
about. So if the question for instance was like who won the arm wrestling match at my house last night, like yes that's it, that's it, that's it information but nobody else can verify it so you probably couldn't do that one so you would want to probably stick to larger sports scores, other things as the title sort of shows
here. In the Twitter spaces, bridges are also just oracles. So, you know, if you're cadena, you actually can't read information from Ethereum or from Bitcoin. So, if you wanted to query information about those other chains, you could use Teller or some other oracle to do so.
Now speaking of some other oracles, there are other ones, for example, like Chainlink is another example that people may know of an oracle out there. What about any thoughts of Teller becoming kind of a decentralized oracle agitator and providing
pulling information from not just your own oracles, but from multiple ones into one spot. Is that something that could be thought of and used in the future to bring even more accuracy and to prices or whatever kind of information wants to be presented?
Sure. I mean, you could. And I think you mean aggregator, not necessarily agitator. Yes, we can go agitate all the other Oracle. I'm sure we do. But not so Oracle aggregation. It's a super interesting topic actually.
because it actually gets into like what price do you actually want on chain because it's actually not a very straightforward question. You would assume like oh, this is really easy, but you know like back whenever you you know we were making our derivatives protocol and even talking with a lot of other
derivatives protocols and D5 platforms now, what the exact price is is not necessarily always clear. So for instance, if you're making a, if you want the price of Bitcoin, you could say, I want the price of Bitcoin from
coinbase, you know, every on the zero zero seconds of every minute. And you would be able to verify that very, very easily, because you know, anybody could go and check the problem, of course, with that would be, well, okay, so now
Now everybody can verify it, but if Coinbase shuts down, you're kind of out of luck. You know, basically you might as well just read Coinbase's API because you're completely dependent on them. So you're like, okay, well, now let's not do that. Let's pick, we'll have a median of Coinbase, Binance, and Crackin. And that's a little
bit better, but what happens if one of those APIs goes down and could it throw the price if you're taking an average? What happens if you want to replace one of those APIs with a new exchange that comes out and is bigger and better? Is there some sort of governance process involved? Does this make it less decentralized?
And it actually gets really, really difficult to kind of standardize what a specific price is. You know, something that Tyler does for a lot of protocols is we actually have more of like an ambiguous price source. So you could just ask it, what's a valid price of Bitcoin? And although it's not 100% clear, you know,
is where you're supposed to get it from, whether it's a medium of 10 different exchanges or just grabbing the coin-based price. There's probably a 1 to 2% wiggle room in that price, just because there's a 1% wiggle room in the Bitcoin price across multiple exchanges.
But that way it's not sort of set with a really hard definition to where somebody trying to attack your protocol would know exactly which exchange to go throw or do a flash long on. So yeah, like as far as like the price horses go, it's definitely more of a question for the specific
the FI protocol that what price or what they want. As far as bringing on other oracles information, we could definitely relay chain link information or any, you can aggregate other sources of information like that for sure. But like I said, it would be more of a question about whether you would actually want to.
Yeah, price can be FB because like you said, there is people seem to think that, you know, oh, there's a set price for Bitcoin at any given time, but there's not because any exchange that Bitcoin's on can literally pretty much set their own prices for how they're transacting on Bitcoin that day.
that minute, that hour, whatever. So really, I think one of the best examples of an aggregator for pricing would probably be one that most people are familiar with in crypto and that's CoinMarketCap, where what they're basically doing is taking all the prices from all the different exchanges that they follow
and just doing an average across all of the different prices. So that's kind of in a way that you could almost say that CoinMarketCap is kind of an oracle in a sense but more using an API as opposed to an on-chain thing that can be tracked in actually, you know,
has a system behind it of validators and all of that kind of stuff. So I kind of feel like that's a good way to explain the differences between an Oracle and just a price aggregator like Point Market Cap. Would that be kind of a correct way to put it? Sure. Yeah.
Yeah, no. Like, you know, we usually, most of the time, the reporters for Teller or even Chainlink, you know, they'll just usually grab prices either directly from the exchanges or grab it from a source such as CoinMarketCapper, CoinGecko. But you have to be careful with those because there's CoinMarketCapper, those that don't know.
it's its own by finance. So you got to get a bit careful in there. Of course they'll favor themselves before favoring anything else of course. Exactly. We would try to keep waiting there. Yeah for sure. So on the kind of topic of APIs and stuff like
that. What do you feel is the benefits when it comes to either using an API from like CoinGecko or something like that for your pricing versus using an Oracle like you guys are producing to pull your prices when someone's building a app or anything like that. What do you see is the
the benefits to yours and the security behind it. So the big difference is if you're in a smart contract you can't you can't read an API and that's why you wouldn't need Norracle. So like if you know your you know like a great example would be like a stable coin. If you're building
building a stable coin on the cadena ecosystem, you could lock up the cadena token and then mint yourself this stable coin based upon the cadena US dollar rate. So you would just need the cadena US dollar rate in there. And the problem with that, however, is you can't just go read the coin gap over the coin market
API and grab that. Even if you wanted those prices, you actually need an Oracle like Teller if you want to claim any sort of decentralization. Obviously, the developers of the stablecoin could throw it on chain for you, but you wouldn't want to just hand over the trust to them. If you wanted open, if you wanted secure in a way that's
You know, you're claiming this to be decentralized and then you do need one of these Oracle's and that's whenever you reach out to us and we can help you design the system. Plus you also have the fact that using an API you're depending on one centralized entity which we've seen can be a big problem.
problem for example, AWS people using AWS and AWS goes down and have to freaking internet is all the sudden shut off. So like that obviously it shows how you know taking away the centralization aspect of using APIs and using something in a more decentralized manner like an Oracle through
is way more beneficial in the overall to a project to adapt or to any kind of person looking to get solid information. Now when it comes to solid information, as you said, people that are putting information onto your Oracle have to stake their tele-tokens to have access to be
able to do that. So what kind of things are in place for people to stop them from making fake reports or people trying to like game the system in a sense? Is there anything to really stop that from happening besides just them having a monetary value that they're going to lose by doing so?
Yeah, I know that's literally it. You know, like you try and make it, you know, the terms crypto economically secure, it's just, it makes sense that if you're going to attack the system, you're going to lose money. It's how you build these systems, you know, whether you're building Kudana at
yourself or a theory or a teller. If it's decentralized, there is no sort of ability for you to say, "Hey, you're not allowed to participate. We don't trust you." It's just, anybody's allowed to participate, but you know, you just try and think through all of the attack factors and say, "Listen, if you're going to attack,
the same way with the teller system, whenever you stake your tokens, you could come on and just report that the price of Bitcoin is $20 million.
and try and wreck some D5 protocol that does it. But the problem is that you're quickly going to get disputed. You're going to lose your stake. And you probably, if the D5 protocol said itself up correctly, you're not going to be able to make any money off of it. So yeah, this is kind of how we think about it at least.
Yeah, it's kind of along the same lines of people thinking of like 51% attacking a blockchain where you know you have to either own a whole whack of expensive mining equipment or be able to rent the hash power needed to do so which isn't it usually feasible for some of the
bigger change like a Bitcoin or something like that, you're going to be spending way more money to be able to do that as opposed to what you would reap and reward. So like you said, when people are putting this information onto an Oracle, they're putting their money up saying that this information is correct and if it's not
person is trying to do and it got shut down like really quickly. You know we haven't seen too many attacks on tellers you know knock on wood. The big thing that we have seen a lot is you'll see a lot of sometimes errors so as you can imagine with this
the reporting on teller. So, you know, if there's a tip for a dollar, basically everyone's racing to submit the price as fast as they possibly can. So what happens is a lot of times these guys will write their own custom software for doing this, to try and speed it up and say like an API goes down or something like that, you'll see everyone.
Especially early on in the teller system you would see sometimes somebody would accidentally submit like the prices zero or 404 error on their The price of Bitcoin and and then it would quickly get disputed and taken off and the person would lose money unfortunately But yeah, that's uh
That's those are some of the ones that we've definitely seen for sure Yeah, there's always there's always people out there that are trying to find a way to make that quick buck or even just in some cases just screw people over because they're bitter people that just have nothing better to do with their lives I guess So I don't
There seems to be lots of people out there. Like you said earlier, you guys have been building now for a few months on Kedana. What was that led you to Kedana? Did they reach out to you or did you reach out to them? Maybe a little history on how Teller became involved with Kedana because you guys have been around.
for a few years now and have worked with multiple different chains, what was the draw for cadena? For sure. I think we had ran into you guys. This is probably a better question for some of my co-workers, but you know, I know we had ran into you guys at a conference last year, some of your founders, but we actually had an interesting history with cadena.
I just, you know, right whenever we launched Eleanor in 2019, we were actually, we had a proof of work component to the Oracle. So in addition to needing to be staked and then also submitting the value we've required you to solve a proof of work calculation as well.
And some of the early miners and early software FPGA software that people were building to my enteller was also used to mine cadena so It was you know there was this sort of crossover amongst early community members and we we had always kind of kept in touch and then It was interesting once once you
We're starting to launch some of the smart contract platform and we're actually ready looking for Oracle's. Yeah, we kind of connected with you guys last year. You know, the ethos had definitely fit. You know, we've been pushing ourselves as the actually decentralized Oracle now for years and so finding people that really understand
understand that's in really sort of half a similar view on what it means to be decentralized and how to get there. So, no, it was a really natural fit and we're happy that it's sort of worked out. Now, Kadeena's been working a lot and been speaking a lot about how they are trying to introduce
ZK rollups and using ZK protocols in conjunction with some of their other back-end stuff that they're doing. How do you see any kind of way of ZKs being used in conjunction along with Oracle's with Teller, maybe just to provide even more security to the system?
Yeah, for sure, you know, like I think some of the harder pieces about, you know, doing things on these rollups is just how do you have, you know, any sort of that availability, how do you trust
a lot of these sequencers. And these are things that people of Vitalik has been throwing at this idea around for the last, I don't know, how long has he been at it now, 10 years or five years, at least, it's probably
using oracles as like that availability proofs or short, you know, these parties and these sequencers are being honest and this would be something we'd love to explore with you guys as you go down that rabbit hole.
You know, we've been in touch with others EK Relips as well. Just being an Oracle there. For the most part, it's relatively the same as being on any other chain, but it's super cool once you get a whole lot of speed going on some of these things.
You can definitely do a whole lot more with the oracles and even just connecting the other chains. There's just much more of a need for it since you can move much faster and do much more. Yeah, that kind of leads me into another question of the use of Oracle technology kind of in conjunction.
with some of the other advanced features that Kedena offers such as its 20 chain, chain web and its pack smart contracts. How do you see that really coming together to form something really new and something that's very beneficial to the entire Kedena ecosystem?
I mean, I think the beauty of Teller 2 is that you're going to be able to talk to a lot of these other chains. So, you know, like I know, Kudina has in a lot of ways been kind of isolated from, you know,
a lot of the DFI or NFT activity that's happening over on Ethereum, over on Polygon, over on Binance Chain. But once you get a solid Oracle over there, now bridging these assets over to Cadena because that's where security is or bridging these assets over to Cadena because that's where
you have some cool app built and you want to lock it up as collateral. One of these DeFi projects, now all of a sudden it opens up a whole lot more. That's what we're hoping to do for you guys. It's how can we leverage what you guys are trying to build?
and sort of connect it to the world, you know, bring real world assets onto cadena, bring, you know, all of these assets that are over on these expensive, more centralized change, James bridge them over to cadena where you can do some cool things. Yeah, that's one thing that definitely people
I've been really wanting to see on cadena and one of the biggest ones for bridging I believe would be a stablecoin because you need to have a very decent bridge to be able to bring these stablecoins onto cadena. For example, for a while there we have
We've got a Cadena version of USDC, things like that. So in the future with you guys being on board now as a Cadena grantee and building these oracles and things like that, what do you see being the start of stablecoins? What would you like to see
come first, come be developed harshly and very, I guess, aggressively to bring these things to light and bring them to flourishing. Whilst still navigating things like, for example, if you were bridging over from a theory of
to cadena, you know, how that would work in respect to like the fee differences between the two, because obviously, you know, you're looking at super high fees on Ethereum versus the super low fees on cadena and how all of this kind of ties together through an Oracle.
I mean the fees you usually have to pay so like if it's just information you're bringing over you would just pay for that on sort of the requesting chain so it'd be cadeno on this example but obviously if you're doing some sort of activity on Ethereum there's not a way around it but you know onto the stablecoin question I think what I'd love
to see. So like we're actually we're one of the oracles for liquidity as well as Reflexer which are two of the, they're probably the two really decentralized ones over on the theorem. You know I would love to see somebody fork those, go put them over on cadena would probably be you know if
there's any devs listening and need a cool idea, you know, happy to point you in the right direction there. You can get a good stablecoin design where you could pick, you know, some cadena native collateral and start locking it up and make a cool stablecoin and then, you know, you can do that once you have an Oracle because
you actually have some price speeds. So yeah, I think that would just be the start of how do you get some of these decentralized or decentralized stable points over there because as much as bridging USDT or USDC over is cool.
Yeah, at least nobody who claims to like decentralization should really want to use those, you know, we, you know, the ideal stablecoin for any ecosystem is a stablecoin that sort of is collateralized by the native assets of that ecosystem and sort of has the values of that ecosystem inside of it just.
you know, it works much better that way. Yeah, I think the whole USDC and all of those like US or Fiat-based stablecoins were really just kind of a way to bridge that gap between the, you know, the old legacy finance
financial system and the new Web 3 blockchain financial system so that people still had that tie to like I guess you could kind of say real-world money even though crypto is much more real than any fiat system really out there is.
So, you know, but I totally agree with you that they should be paging them to other cryptos like I would love to see a Bitcoin stablecoin where it's backed by a Bitcoin or something like that There's lots of other things or like you even said one that's backed by cadena because I believe that
I don't want to sound like one of those tin foil conspiracy theorists people out there, but I think we're starting to see the end and collapse of the US fiat system as more countries are kind of starting to move away from the US dollar, things like that.
starting to show major cracks with every week or so, another bank is starting to go down, things like that. So really this is a very good chance for that flip from stablecoins being fiat based to being crypto based.
What do you think about that? Do you think that that would be? Do you see that as the future of where things are going when it comes to crypto? Or do you think that possibly, you know, we're going to be fighting to the last tooth and nail to break away from the old school legacy fiat system?
Now, I mean, I think some of our stablecoin designs have been necessitated USDC and USDT in a lot of ways. You know, like right now, if you look at even the original stablecoin, which was die and then liquidity or rye or
or any of these, the problem is that you have to over collateralize them and you need somebody to take the long side. So it gets very, very, it's like this weird dynamic to where you have to lock up a whole bunch of collateral that you basically don't get any interest on.
in order to mint a stable coin and you know that's really hard versus you know USDC where you just lock up a dollar to get a dollar and then usually you know the person locking up that dollar is circle who can then also take those dollars and
and get you know on them. So it's like it's really hard to compete with that. You know like I think you're starting to see some people who are locking up you know whether it's staked either or something that's actually yield generating underneath a stable coin because then then you're sort of not losing money by
by creating a stable coin. So, you know, I think decentralization has paid a really big premium in that sense and just better stable coin designs in the future that can kind of reduce the amount of collateral that you have to push will will make
centralized stablecoins able to compete besides just on a philosophical moral basis with some of the centralized stablecoins. Yeah, I mean on the whole US dollar fiasco bits, you know, I think
Whether or not I'm as bullish or less bullish on the economy, I think the bigger piece too is just I think what you're going to start seeing and this is something that we're working on creating here at Teller is, you know, how do you have inflation indexes that aren't tied to the dollar? So, you know, like right now you could like right now
Right now everyone is basically you have a stablecoin and you peg it to the US dollar and what that's doing is that's pegging it to a specific piece of value. There's nothing to say that you would have to peg the price of your stablecoin to a dollar though you could peg it to a basket of goods similar to the CPI or
CPI that's not necessarily run by the US government. And if you did this, then you would actually have, you know, you could take the US dollar piece or, you know, the Fed's control over, you know, the price of an asset out of the equation and your stablecoin could sort of be independent.
And I think that's where you're going to see stable coins probably over the next few years move. It's like, well, how can you have a globally distributed stable coin? How can you have something that isn't sort of US dollar centrics? Kind of along the same lines, being that you
you guys have been in the game for a while and know your ways around decentralized finance. I would like to hear what your thoughts are on the CDBCs coming out and the centralized digital versions pretty much of Fiat. What do you think
Do you see those going to be even viable or even like something that like it's kind of inevitable and that's just going to be the next kind of iteration? And how do you see blockchain and actual crypto going against that grain? Yeah, I mean,
I can be like, so there's probably a few paths. There's like the optimistic path or there's like the, you know, what they're probably going to do and is there a path for crypto forward? You know, like ultimately, like for me, like, and what I, you know, I try and tell people, like,
CBDC doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. It probably will be because the government usually sucks at these things. But since it's not out, we can be optimistic and it doesn't have to be a bad thing. You know, like you could, they could say like, hey, we're going to make a CBDC, but it's going to be cash-like. You're going to, you know, we're going to run a ledger#
It's you signs your knowledge proof to transfer it. We don't track any of your data and you're allowed to use it as you see fits you can build smart contracts around it do whatever you want with it, you know, like they could theoretically do that right? So where it's it's a private bearer assets that
people can trade around and it's an actual digital cash but you know like it and I think that's what we should still push for I think I think there's you know like Rohan Gray and some of the people on the you know like the MMT side are pushing for for some things like that like you could you could have digital private
cash and that would honestly that would be the worst case scenario for cryptocurrencies because like you know if the Fed was like yeah you have a perfectly private system and you can do smart contracts on it well like well let's just do that like that's great you know but but what's likely going to happen is you know the whole thing
have a bunch of surveillance controls in it, they'll have, you have to go through a registered bank or something like that to set up your account. And along those lines it'll be very, very similar to sort of I think what we have now. I don't think it's going to be the most, most,
I guess currencies and stuff like that is pretty digital as is. It will probably just change how things work on the back end. So I'm not too necessarily worried about it. I think some people might say, "Oh, it'll reduce the need for crypto or they'll ban crypto because of this." I think it's still going to be so, so
different, just because crypto now it's like what is crypto? And it's not that like very, very few people I would say actually use crypto as like a currency. I want to see more people use it as a currency, but we're not necessarily doing that. We're using crypto as these sort of
pseudo social networks and small little financial networks and then you bootstrap them with some sort of governance token or utility token that's sort of equity-like in a way but it has some currency features as well and it all kind of blends.
Just the ability to use smart contracts and to have these things build together and build these financial ecosystems that we're playing around with. I don't see them even going near any of that. I don't think they want to.
I like your optimistic view of things where the government goes the more decentralized route and using blockchain technology pretty much as it should be and as it was originally perceived to be. But like you said, that's not really how good
government's like to operate because that involves giving up a certain amount of control over something that they've controlled forever, right? So yeah, it's definitely going to be something interesting to follow and hopefully we get some right people in the right places that have the power to push through
legislation and push through things to push it down the correct path and not something that can be used against the people as opposed to something that can be used by the people and for the people. So yeah, it's definitely something that people should be conscious of and be aware of and follow along.
long. But at the same time, you know, there are cryptos not going away. There's no way anyone's going to be turning off Bitcoin or turning off any of these fully decentralized systems out there without just straight up turning off the internet is pretty much the only way you'd be able to kill these things at this point. So like
optimistic path and I'm really like fingers crossed that that's the way it goes and that's what I'd love to see and yeah like you said crypto is not being used in a financial way right now it's more of a hedge asset something that you just really invest in not too many people like
I myself have bought lots of things for crypto. I've used my crypto to buy things. There's companies out there that often offer crypto credit cards where you can put your crypto into their service and use it as stores and blah, blah, blah, blah, but still not really the way that it
needs to be used in a decentralized manner. But we're getting there slowly and surely as long as we stay on the correct path and keep working all together, hopefully in the future we'll see something really awesome come out of it. And at that point, oracles will play a really large part, I believe,
that system because you're going to need someone to be able to be trusted source of the information in a decentralized manner and also someone that can bridge together all of the different interoperability of all these different chains and all these different protocols that are
out there. So it's very interesting to see where things are going to be going. Now as far as Oracle development on cadena, what kind of development milestones are you looking forward to most with building on cadena? I know we've already touched on a few, but what kind of things do you see specifically
in the next like coming couple years probably that are going to just bring cadena to that next level maybe even on a level with an ethereum or any of the larger players in the scene. Yeah so I think the big thing I'm looking forward to with cadena is just as you guys sort of
as Kudina evolves and moves from more singular smart contract chains into more of just, let's say there's tons of roll ups that are linked onto one or two chains. It's just how do we develop an Oracle that can handle that level of volume? How do we
you know, develop an article that you can, you know, basically leverage, you know, the same call, it's not too expensive in terms of collateral. It's not too expensive in terms of, you know, slowing any of these projects down and just being able to sort of serve all of the various needs that we're expecting to come from it.
and it's definitely going to be a challenge, but hopefully we can get it going and we'll probably need your guys help along the way. Oh for sure, there's definitely going to be lots of cooperation, I believe, between the Kadeena team and the Tyler team and us here at Kadeena ecosystem and even us
We're more than happy to help in any way that we can as well because what benefits one benefits all when it comes to developing in a blockchain and in a community. So the more people that comes on and the more high end exclusive technologies like
like tellers bringing to the plate here the better because it's just going to get us all ready because I believe that we're starting to hit the bottom of this bear market I believe even though we're seeing like a lot of regulators and stuff step in and SEC starting to become a lot more active and starting to catch up but a lot of people
see that as a bad thing that's going to push crypto down even farther, but I believe it's going to have an opposite effect where it's actually going to push out some of the bad actors in the space and make crypto have a little bit more legitimacy in the space and in the financial
world. And just, you know, the more the more that we can be prepared now for when that does eventually happen, the better off everyone's going to be from cadena to teller themselves. So it's really just, you know, a matter right now of seeing which way the tide goes and just keep our heads down and keep building
for that potential future where blockchain and cadana and oracles and teller are just an everyday part of life. And like I said, the future is going to be if blockchain becomes the next step in our financial future of the world, it's going
going to be almost kind of in the same sense of the internet how it's used in the background and people aren't really aware of it anymore and it just becomes just another app that you're using or another website that you're browsing on and things like that. It's building those tools now that will make that
future become present and more prevalent and available to everyone across the globe. Couldn't have said it better. No. Yeah, I mean, I think the big thing that, you know, as far as how we can collaborate to, you know, anybody listening, you know, if you guys know of projects that are
looking for Oracle's or building smart contracts on top of good then I reach out. We'd love to talk to them and find out what they need, what data we should be pushing, teach them how to connect, and definitely the other piece too is we need people to report. So if you're interested, if you're kind of a software dev ops type guy,
and you want to run a reporter over there. You can pick up some tele tokens and you can start reporting data for people. So that's definitely what we're looking for over the next few months. Now what do you see as far as DAPS utilizing oracles? What are the top ones that you see like DEXs for example?
example would be a good use case. What other kind of use cases do you see that projects that are currently building on cadena would be able to utilize the services that you guys provide? >> Yeah. >> Stable coins, lending platforms, synthetic,
those are the big ones. If it has DeFi in it, it probably has an Oracle. Most Dexes don't unless you're some sort of, if it's a leverage Dex, it can, but just a straight-up Dex wouldn't. But yeah, most DeFi projects will use some sort of Oracle for
something. So, you know, if that's you guys, you know, they know the projects themselves know. So, definitely was important. Now, is there any way that an Oracle could be used in any kind of way for NFTs being that NFTs are slowly
starting to become even more prevalent in the cadena ecosystem and obviously in other bigger ecosystems. What kind of ways could a project that does NFTs utilize an Oracle? Yeah, I mean, so I think we had already mentioned bridging them from other chains, but the other piece too, it's just you can actually have NFTs
that have properties and then that change. So, you know, we've built these kind of more for fun, but we're talking to other projects about it. You know, you could have, you could have an NFT of a sports player, so you could have like a sports card. And then you could, you could have an Oracle that goes and grabs his stats after every game.
updates it on chain. So then your basically your NFT changes over time or you know you could have a picture that evolves over time based upon some outside information. You know similar other ideas that some people have had like you know you could have like if you had like a decentralized Zillow for instance where you hadn't had an
of your house and then like you could have an Oracle bring data on from the pricing data from actual Zillow or information about the house that as it changes. These are all ideas that you could use Oracle's for just bringing real-world data and putting it actually into an NFT.
Well that really can open up the field to lots of different ways. I love the whole idea like you just said, because as soon as I first started looking into NFTs I was like well there goes tops and all of these sports cards and stuff because really like you know how
how great would it be to have collectible sports cards or something in NFT format that actually update with the live information after each game, you know, like as opposed to only having the yearly information of it after the cards are put out every year, you just buy one and it continuously up
So that sounds like something that if anyone listening to this and wants to build an NFT platform on cadena because good thing about Pact is that and Marmalade Standard is that you can upgrade and change the metadata for NFTs. So that's definitely something that's fully possible on cadena.
right now. So yeah, that's a use case that I think some people should definitely jump on and build. If I had some more technical skills or the time to learn them, I was like, geez, I should just do that myself. I could make some real back doing that. But yeah, I know
That's very awesome. So many ways. Yes, exactly. I see you coming soon. But no, that's great. I think we've covered a lot of the bases of what you guys are bringing to the table and things that people can do. I don't know if there's anyone listening that may have a question or so.
I think we can feel free to send in a request to speak or if any of your other team members that are listening feel like we've missed anything and they want to say anything. They're more than welcome to come up. But I want to thank you definitely Nicholas for joining us today and telling us all about Teller. We're very excited in the Cadena ecosystem to have
such a great player in the whole blockchain sphere like Teller that's been around and has this great experience on multiple networks and multiple platforms to just bring all of that into Kadehna and build some really cool tools that a lot of people I think are going to be able to utilize
for a lot of good. So thank you very much for coming in just being with us again today. Yeah, awesome to be here and glad I worked out this time. Yeah, I'm all home at my office now. So nice and steady here. So good things. So we'll definitely, though, have to come back and do this again.
Once things get a little farther maybe once a couple cool really cool bridges or oracles get set up or if you guys have anything new that you're working on and you guys want to have a little help with promoting definitely feel free to reach out to us here at Kedina ecosystem. We'd love to
teller you'll see it there but I'll definitely be sending out I'll probably put out a tweet when I'm done this AMA today as well so that we can spread that around as well but again thank you very much for joining us today it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you awesome yeah thank you thank you thank you very much everyone
for listening. Make sure you guys go give Teller a follow. Also you can join their discord chat with them in there and get involved, become a validator, get some more information onto the chain and get out there and get working. So thank you very much everyone for joining us and have a great day.