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BTC above $85K, ‘Liberation Day’ for Tariffs, Circle files for IPO
Recorded: April 2, 2025 Duration: 0:56:31Space Recording
Short Summary
Recent developments in the crypto space include the launch of new projects like Walrus and an NFT runner on Bear Chain, significant fundraising events such as Circle's IPO and GameStop's stock offering, and the introduction of innovative energy solutions for Bitcoin mining. Institutional interest in Bitcoin continues to grow, while some L1s experience a decline in usage. Sui's rise in DEX volume highlights its growing adoption.
Full Transcription
Good morning, G-N-E-N, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Homo Hour.
Today is Wednesday, April 2nd, 4th, 5.
It is a stormy morning here in Chicago.
There's absolutely pouring rain outside.
It's cloudy.
It's gloomy.
Perhaps a sign of the storm that is coming with Liberation Day.
And Trump set to announce those tariff details live at 4 p.m. Eastern today.
And the question on everyone's mind, is it Liberation Day or Liquidation Day?
We are going to break it all down on today's show.
No Farouk. Mando is going to be with us here in a few minutes, but I've got Logan on.
He is a writer over on Decreach.
We've been working together for quite some time. Logan, GM, how are you doing?
Hey, good morning, Tyler. I'm doing really well. Not in my normal setup, so the camera angle is
tough for me. A little unflattering. Maybe I need to lay off some of the food here I've been
consuming in Peru, but things are going well. The weather is perfect. Tough to complain too much.
Excited for
Liberation Day and whatever it brings. I'm curious how the Peruvians are feeling about
Liberation Day. Are you getting into conversations with the locals?
You know, actually, Trump has come up more than once in conversation with our host family here
in Peru. I won't get into the details of such. I don't need to get anyone in trouble,
but it has come up surprisingly.
Positive or negative?
Negative.
Yeah, that's great.
Well, we will see.
Perhaps we'll get into that.
That is one of the impacts of some of these tariffs
that are going to be put in place.
Mando's on with us.
Mando, GN, how are you doing? I'm doing great. How are you? Good. Ready to be liberated and at least get
through whatever that means. And we're going to find out in T minus six hours and then we'll see
how the world impacts. So folks, what are we talking about on today's show? We are going to
talk about Trump tariff latest, our predictions for what's going to happen today.
And then of course the impact to the crypto market.
We're going to talk circle IPO.
It is official on Coinbase drinking circles milkshake.
As we took a look at the financials,
Ted Cruz wants to use flare gas for Bitcoin mining in Texas.
That was a headline out on left field.
GameStop, ready to buy $1.5 billion worth of Bitcoin.
They closed their stock sale yesterday.
Kaido's got a new earn page for yappers.
We'll go around the horn with some memes and NFTs.
The WIFT team's giving the sphere puns back.
We've got a new NFT runner on bear chain and a lot more.
Plus, back half of the show, our conversation with Rohan from mist in labs to talk about the mega
successful walrus launch and what's coming next from them.
So we're excited for that.
Before we dive in quick shout out to our partners,
starting with Galaxis.
Galaxis is a web three platform,
empowering creators and brands to build unstoppable communities with full
ownership and independence trusted by icons like Donald Trump, Steve Aoki, Mike Tyson, and the NBA,
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We love our partners as always.
Mando, if you're ready, let's get into it.
Blue is the man, macro daddy of the land.
Can you dig it?
Yeah, so this is
Liberation Day, whatever the hell that means.
Stuff is
not as bad, I think, as people maybe initially
expected here.
I think we spoke about yesterday that I'm
less...
There's some focus on this for me,
but not maybe as much as some of the other stuff
that's going on in the stock market.
And it's still a little bit of confusion,
I think, coming out of,
even from like White House conversations
that people don't really even know what this is
until the final moments.
It definitely doesn't feel like it's some sort of
like obvious plan that's been out there and vetted um even yesterday it was like oh it's gonna be
very very broad and it's 20 on everything and then you have the scent kind of walking back some of
the comments it's just like a strange scenario i think they're kind of like they're gearing it up
and you'll probably get a very comprehensive plan but i also think it's being decided literally today um which is quite trump
you know like he's very very much changed his mind on a lot of this sort of policy sort of stuff
but yeah we are we are getting that bitcoin holding up relatively well 85k still the uh
european stock sort of today u.s stocks had kind of bounced slightly yesterday and they're a little bit weak
today. So mixed bag positioning is definitely more bearish than it's been, which is normally
a good sign. It means that you're not just going to go down 10, 20%. And the timeline continues to think, you know, be pretty bearish, I think, which I think is just an interesting flip there.
I don't know.
I think Bitcoin is going to stay above 80K, in my opinion, whatever the headline.
I don't see it going low.
I can see, yeah, maybe I can see maybe some of the L1s continue to drift lower,
but I don't see this causing some cataclysmic, at least today,
some cataclysmic bond market sell-off.
Sorry, or equity market sell-off.
Everyone's position is too bearish for that to happen, in my opinion.
So I just don't think it's going to happen.
The statements can seem to be that people are now expecting more of a recession.
Goldman Sachs think, you know, go down 6% in Q2.
But we're just not where we are, were, my opinion, rather like horrific sell-offs.
Inflation, headline out, Justin Sun bailed out TUSD after stablecoin had 500 million hole in balance sheet.
Makes sense.
He was only created it.
And I, you know,
true inflation came out at 1.3% today.
That's really low.
I just don't think it's the sort of environment
where things will just go absolutely horrifically.
And I think everyone is positioned way more bearish
than they have been in the past.
So I think crypto will outperform tech stocks here i
think we'll follow gold way more from here on in and um i'm more positive for sure it's good to hear
i'm trying to pull up the those true inflation numbers yeah i saw this yesterday so i feel like
there's so many mixed signals on the timeline. There's folks who are just still terrified of inflation going up.
And I think those are some of the calls that we're seeing that.
I saw a tweet this morning that folks are expecting rate hikes in 2025,
which seems just kind of absurd.
And then the true inflation data is pretty,
I think it's painting a pretty clear picture right now that it is going down.
So a lot of mixed signals out there.
I am hoping we get a little bit more clarity here later today.
I do want to talk about the tariffs and some predictions here.
So you laid out some of the predictions that we've had.
Goldman Sachs, they've increased
their odds to recession. I think that there's more bearish views than bullish views for sure.
I mean, Bloomberg's only got a couple. We've got Tom Lee who's calling for V-shape recovery. I
think he's the only loud bull out there calling for that right now. And then Bessent a little
bit more level-headed, trying to ease the worst-case fears. I think what really jumped out to me yesterday was last night,
or last night and then this morning,
just the details of this plan isn't finalized yet.
Like, what?
Trump, you set this day.
And then originally it was going to be –
I think they even delayed the press conference.
So, Logan, I'm curious.
I saw you reacting to that.
Are you surprised that perhaps we don't have these plans written down on paper yet?
I'm not surprised at all, unfortunately, as Mando mentioned. I mean, this feels as Trump as it can possibly get. I think the unfortunate part for many of us who had celebrate isn't the right word, but had been positively feeling about him surrounding himself with smarter, more efficient people,
right? Like, you would just hope that this thing wouldn't happen as often, you know,
where you get to a day that has been earmarked for some masterful plan, and there seems like
there's no plan. So no, I'm not surprised, maybe disappointed is a better word, but
it's Trump. So we'll, we'll see what happens.
Yeah, I think that is fair. I was trying to find the, the Besant tweet from last night where he was kind of outlining what the
options are. But I'm unable to find it, I guess, Logan,
maybe for our listeners. So I think folks still know what Liberation Day is.
How would you describe Liberation Day as a fellow American?
How would I describe Liberation day as a fellow american how
would i describe liberation bay as a fellow american oh man well um i don't know there is
a good way to describe it other than you know trump has has made it very clear that this is
uh going to be part of like this kind of make america wealthy again make america great again
all those you know cliche uh acronyms and such that he's laid outline. This is one of those key days where he's going to reveal plans that put us on that path or
have already started to put us on the path to making America wealthy again. So I think, yeah,
we are expecting some level of detail regarding what happens with the tariffs moving forward.
I saw some headlines. I don't know the sources on them, but like things about like Canada would be willing to walk back if the US walked back. I was reading some of the articles over at Decrypt from some of my colleagues about this, just preparing like what know, we don't really know. That's what everybody else is saying, even the people who are closest to the ground and the macro and analysts who are being paid. I'm
not the guy who can speak to that. But the people who are being paid to manage other people's money
are saying the exact same thing. There's a great quote from a wealth fund manager in one of the
decrypt articles that said, you know, it's really easy to start a trade war. It's really difficult
to end one or to win one. I'm sorry. I think it's to win one. It's like easy to start a trade war it's really difficult to end one or to win one i'm sorry i think the it's to win one it's like impossible to win one i'm wondering if liberation
day is like you know we're kind of liberating ourselves from not the trade war indefinitely
but you know liberating ourselves from that that mindset of like oh we're gonna win it um he wouldn't
you know trump would never admit defeat i I don't think. But like,
maybe this is a cooler heads prevail type thing. I don't know. We'll see.
I mean, the best case outcome, right, is to win this trade war without firing any bullets. So to have threatened these large tariffs, and then them all effectively walked back.
And or perhaps so, like, for me, the definition of Liberation Day
is trying to rebalance a global trade situation
where the U.S. has losing deals or unfair deals.
And there's a lot to impact, but that is the headline view,
that we have trade relationships with other countries
where they are charging us higher tariffs than we are charging them,
and to try to even that out.
So I think that is as simple as Trump is looking at it.
And we've started to see some reactions.
So I think we've seen like Vietnam, Israel come out and say they're going to potentially lower their tariffs.
So I think that is perhaps the bull case here.
I guess, Mando, and I don't know what you've spoken at length.
There's more driving markets right now than just this.
But I am curious, kind of, what do you think is going to happen at 4 p.m. today?
And what's your best guess at market response?
I think there's focus on this, but like I said, I don't think it's been necessarily the number one thing driving the US stock market.
The US stock market is just basically made up of 38% of these Magnificent Seven stocks.
So I'm just wary of oversimplifying that this is going to be the thing.
I think the stock market sell-off is telling you with the moves and things like Tesla
that it's not going to be saved here by tariffs.
So I think let's see how the AI thing plays out over the next few months.
But the most bullish thing I see right now is just how the pendulum has swung to bearishness of the consensus.
And that's not just in crypto.
That's like across the board.
And that tells me like whatever sell-off, if we do get any sort of sell-off, I think you're meant to buy it.
Because this is not longs getting wrecked anymore, in my opinion.
This would be, there are people short this market.
I mean, people are the most short ETH they've ever been.
They're the most short stocks they've been since 2020.
I think that no matter how bearish you think this is going to be,
if we sell off today and we go decent,
you know, like Bitcoin goes down to 80K,
just buy it, just buy it, I'm telling you.
I don't think Bitcoin's going to break out of this range on this headline.
Yeah, I think that is fair.
I feel like my gut is – I think we're going to bounce,
but I feel like I'm with you that we're also just going to stay in a range
and we aren't out of the woods yet by any means.
It's hard for me to – I want to be on Tom Lee's side.
I want to pound the table and say the V-shaped recovery starts today.
It's hard to fully have conviction of that.
I think, I think we've spoken about this before,
but I think the expectations for crypto Twitter participants and crypto
participants in general are just, they work both ways. You know,
like previously we we've expected too much.
Now we may be expecting too little.
And despite the volatility that's going to come in either direction, it's like Mando said,
it feels like we're too bearish for it to be so bad. I don't know. That's, of course, just an
opinion. And that's what I'm clinging on to as a shred of hopium, but I full well in a
little bit of my bear arc as well right now. So I'm not expecting much in either direction,
but clinging on to that as a shred of hopium. Yeah. I mean, I feel like Bitcoin looks strong.
It's been outperforming stocks. So it led the down move.
So I'm feeling good about Bitcoin.
Alts feel a little weaker, I have to say.
Waking up and seeing Bitcoin hit over 85 and then ETH's still below 1900.
SOL still below 130.
Doesn't feel great.
So those aren't out of the woods by any means.
But I want to keep us going through our list here.
We got to talk about the circle IPL.
So we talked that it could be coming.
And then, bam, we got the news yesterday.
They filed the S1 with the SEC.
And as a part of that, we got a better picture of their financials.
And Mando, I know on the show yesterday yesterday we were kind of doing some on like uh
off the cut back back of the napkin math on whether or not circle would be a good buy at
five billion or not i'm curious if you had to take a chance to take a look at some other numbers
and if that's changed your point of view i did i had a look at their numbers their revenue figures
is good but their net profit figure is is shockingly low compared to that um you know how is their revenue like what is being
lost here like that was my question like how it seems like they give like a billion dollars to um to i mean part of this goes to coinbase each year and then
huge cost so jeremy is paying himself a lot of money that's that's that's what i kind of got
got from this um because 2025 you know arguably that figure could go up like we said yesterday
that figure could again double that that revenue figure but their net income's
gone down yeah uh from 2023 to 2024 which surprised me um so i if i was sitting there i'd be like
cut the costs um yeah like uh that business is maybe not being run as well as I think it could be.
That was my reaction as well.
And seeing the net income drop year over year with the massive growth was just hard to believe.
I think my jaw basically hit the floor when I saw this
and started getting into it.
I do think the bull case, I guess, is continued growth,
and they do have cost levers they could probably pull back on. It seems like there's the headlines going around
that Coinbase effectively is making more money on USDC than Circle is. As I understand it,
Circle is in conversations with other sexes, so they could perhaps get better deals there.
Of course, they could reduce some of their other operating costs. But man, my expertise is not in valuing companies. I fed that the numbers, the financials through
ChetGPT, they said good comps are in the $2 to $3 billion range. So that made me a little wary of
it coming out at $5 billion and being a smash buy. And then we're thinking
perhaps it could even open up higher than that. I guess it was trading as high as $5.5 in private
secondary markets in the past few months. So Logan, I'm curious if you have a thought. Are you
thinking about buying this, selling this, waiting for a dip? What's your take?
Yeah. I'd like to wait this out a little bit.
I know the IPO mania the last few days in particular has been kind of exciting, but
CoreWeave just IPO'd last week, started down and then bounced back up. So this would be like a
wait and see what happens thing for me. We don't actually know what price right yet. We don't know
when either. So macro conditions could be completely different. I think
Corweave filed as one of the most recent examples, filed and then didn't start trading until
basically a month later. So maybe we get like an end of April thing type here.
I don't know what's customary there, but it could be drastically different. I'm in a wait and see
approach. But this was really interesting to read through. I was reading one of the articles on
Decrypt about Coinbase taking this 50%. Basically, it said the more that's held, the more USDC held on Coinbase So you mentioned Tyler, potential other sexes. If you
scroll down here, there's mentions regarding other banks as well and other platforms in other
countries, Mercado Libre in Latin America, things like that. So there are definitely still paths
here. I think everybody recognizes and is optimistic about stablecoin growth and how impactful that could be.
So I don't want to write off circle here for the future or anything like that,
but this would be more of a wait and see what's going on in the rest of markets
before just slapping a yes on the IPO price.
Yeah, I'm with you.
Yesterday, I was pretty bulled up and was already starting to make plans
of trying to earmark
some capital to have ready for ipo day now i'm in a little bit more wait and see mode i do feel like
i don't think stocks trade on narratives like our our beautiful internet tokens do that the stable
coin narrative is a strong one right now so i do think there is something to that. Could it perhaps trade above
fundamentals? I think maybe there is some, some hoping there, but we will certainly see.
That was the big story yesterday. It was a little bit more quiet just being April fool's day. No
one wants to drop any serious news for the for the most part uh the timeline was just an
absolute abortion yesterday but i'm happy we're past that it's april 2nd this looked like it could
be an april fool's day joke here or at least a strange headline so ted cruz bringing this flare
act to use flared gas for bitcoin mining. So Bitcoin mining continues to be a hotter button topic here in the US.
I don't think a whole lot to unpack there.
Probably the juicier story, though, was GameStop.
So they completed their stock offering yesterday, $1.5 billion.
Now ready to go, ready to buy some Bitcoin.
That's on top of the $6 billion in cash they six billion in cash they already have
so they are they're flush over at gamestop mandos high level thoughts good or bad should we be
rooting for this any takeaways from gamestop potentially being one of the top owners of
bitcoin here it really what i said before like uh gamestop is not a, I think it's B,
I had a look at it after the show.
It's a double B credit, you would call that.
And it may drop down to like being B actually after this.
But which means, you know,
that would be some of the companies that I used to trade.
Like they could always go bankrupt.
Like they've got an okay chance of going bankrupt in the next 10,
20 years.
And that's,
that's the risk with these sort of things.
It's obviously,
but as they're buying Bitcoin today,
there's just buyers of Bitcoin.
Like every single day I do man in minutes.
It's just,
all right,
these guys bought more,
these guys bought more.
It's,
it's very institutional now.
It is Bitcoin being bought by institutions is is probably that and stable coins and rwas
are the three big strong narratives still yeah um the l1 narrative like the use of the l1s that's
been drifting quite a lot lower um you know everyone's putting in month multi-month lows in terms of fees generated
and um a lot of questions about like do we have too much block space versus demand all this sort
of stuff um but uh but bitcoin doesn't care there's bars of bitcoin every day uh i continue to think it's it's the thing to own here uh
although it's very boring it's just it's the thing to own it's plodding along and it feels like
there's just going to continue to be a bid like it feels like there's a pretty safe floor and
nothing is like totally safe of course but it feels like the safest floor of all of these by far.
And I'm with you.
Like I think three,
three institutions on my list,
like big ones who bought Bitcoin in the last day.
And that's even throwing away like the tiny market cap companies that are
trying to generate the splashy headlines.
Right.
Like the one Kobe responded to this morning.
So that continues to happen.
Logan, thoughts there before we move on?
Yeah.
I mean, I've said it before, but like those are the types of headlines that I think we're
going to eventually look back at and be like, oh shit, it was right in front of us.
You know, like all the institutions, all the big players were buying.
The one thing that, you know, I'm just not smart enough to think through all the second
and third order effects is, you know, is anybody off put at all that these companies, many of them continue to follow the sailor playbook? Like,
is that off putting? Or not? You know, of course, that's a big topic of debate. I'm not the guy to
go through it all. But that's just something that lingers in the back of my mind is all of these
companies stacking up and selling debt to buy Bitcoin. Like, is that ultimately good? I don't know. Good for Bitcoin. Yes,
hopefully. But like, does that introduce risks that we're not, you know, not keenly aware of
at this point? Yeah, it is second order. I think it's the sort of thing that maybe in three years
or two years, people go like, oh, wait, like GameStop could get liquidated here
or this person get liquidated here.
Do you know what I mean?
Everyone loves it when they're buying.
But then if we go through a sustained period of lower prices,
it just puts more risk in the system.
And I think it is off putting to a group,
a cohort who view it as like this last ditch effort,
right?
Like,
here's,
especially with GameStop,
right?
Like here's a meme company now jumping into crypto to,
to help save their stock price or whatever.
And I feel like there's some fun angles there.
And the chat with Jeebs this morning,
it still feels like there's a huge cohort who feel like sailor is going to
be liquidated.
And it's a matter of when and not if,
and that we've talked about that.
And that feels like a very unlikely scenario still,
at least since he's effectively stopped selling more,
more debt to keep buying.
So like that's the factor to watch.
But it is a different story for folks like GameStop who are buying for the first time at $86,000.
So, yeah, it's going to be a storyline to continue to watch.
Let's keep moving through some of the stories here ahead of our guest coming on in just a few minutes.
Nice day of punk sales.
I'm not sure if you had a chance to take a look at these two pilots
selling 85 and 126 ETH.
That is 2X and 3X the floor.
Same buyer.
And then Canvas came in with 100 ETH on this pink hair punk.
All of these sales pretty well above floor.
Is that refreshed, Tyler? is that one really six minutes
ago that bottom one's a really nice oh it was this is not refreshing okay okay two hours ago
still that was a nice one at 60 let's check in on the punk bitcoin spread here so 80k so we're
down about six percent versus bitcoin here so we'll see i'm sure we'll tighten that spread again
soon kaido keeps rolling
out their updates. So this is for you yappers out there. They launched this new rewards station tab.
So now you can very easily see which protocols are effectively paying people to tweet
about their product. And I think this is one of the bull cases for Kaido is they are effectively
democratizing the paid content sector of crypto Twitter.
Now you've got all these protocols that there's out there for you.
It is up to you.
You're tired of seeing that the big KOLs in your timeline being the ones that
reap the rewards. You can go do it yourself now.
So have you, sorry, Tyler, have you,
have you like tried to go through any of these topics? For example,
I looked at this and I just chose skate just as one that I recognize.
And actually I bought some like skateboard thing like a while ago.
I don't even know what skate is.
But I just searched X Twitter for skate topics.
All the tweets are the exact same.
And, you know,
that's one of those things that I had mentioned previously about a little
bit of my disdain for Kaido, right.
And yaps and yap farming.
I'm just slightly concerned about this but um who knows
um yeah i mean you're going to get different tiers of content right and the easiest thing
for anyone to do is just to take skate for example to Skate's website, you copy and paste as much information as you can,
you throw it into ChatGPT and it's all about you five posts.
Right.
And that's not a knock on anybody who's produced anything here.
Like I said, I didn't go super deep into it.
I just did scroll through and so much of it,
what you don't run into that might be hockey or sports related,
so much of it is just like that regurgitated chat GPT,
you know,
the AI slop type content that is not adding value to anyone's feet.
I mean,
the really big challenge for Kaido,
I think is getting valuable content,
which would benefit all consumers and creators and these protocols as well.
So not suggesting anything that's been shared on screen is not valuable, but it's just something
that I'm thinking about as you've very clearly outlined now, hey, these companies are going
to pay you to just say their name, basically.
It's an experiment, right?
And we're going to see if it works.
And I think there's certainly downsides. Yeah, I think we we're going to see if it works.
And I think there's certainly downsides.
Yeah. I think we've gotten a lot of low quality content.
I think we've already seen folks complaining about some of the folks who are consistently on the leaderboards for five or 10 of these protocols who are just kind of doing AI slop on a daily basis.
but that's on, I think Kydo's going to have to figure that out
and figure out how to either like nerf them to a degree
or better reward quality content.
But that's their job.
Like they're building the algo, right?
So there should be ways to do that.
There should be leverage for them to pull.
Yeah, and it's also on us as consumers
to engage appropriately as well
and to curate our feeds. I am guilty of just following
too many people and not curating my feed appropriately. So I'm getting more of this
than I probably should be getting or that I wish to be getting anyway.
Very fair. We all have to curate, especially in the AI era. Curation is very important.
We didn't have a chance to talk about this.
Sign of the times.
The WIFS sphere funds have been returned.
The team behind this ended up coming out and saying,
basically they couldn't get the deal done.
They were trying to get it done,
but it looked like communication was becoming more and more sparse.
They didn't want to hold the funds up any longer. It was hard to believe it to me. It was like,
dang, this was a year ago. So it's been a full year since the Whiff's fear campaign has, uh,
has started, but Logie curious, do you have any reactions to the, to this? Is it the end of an
era? It is. It is truly the end of an era in my my opinion. For those who are not well versed in this situation, my colleague Ryan Gladwin has been closest to the ground of anybody. You see in this tweet, actually, they mentioned the Decrypt Media article spooked our partner. That was back when we reported that the Sphere had no idea that this was going to be coming or whatever.
or had no idea that this was going to be coming or whatever.
It feels like the end of a sector of meme coins from Solana
that WIF was clearly the leader of.
There's a period of time that'll be forever immutably registered
on the Solana blockchain that so many of us participated in
with PopCat, et cetera.
It does feel like the end of an era.
I don't know how best to say.
I think that's
that's really the best way to characterize it wow i actually hadn't checked the price
the age of fort coin is with us now yeah 400 million whiff whiff hit 4 billion it did
4 billion twice actually so it hit hit in 2024 well spring 2024 and then again
in late 2024 just a crazy move when you think when you think about it um four billion i don't
know where that ends the cycle like the ends of the next six months is that just down only forever
now like the rest of some anime coins like. Is that just down only forever now?
Like the rest of Solana meme coins?
Like it's just terrific out there at the moment.
It's only really far coin.
And the daily runner for like the day.
Lost literally for a day and then it's over.
Yeah, there are a few,
there are more daily runners now than there were a few weeks ago,
but their shelf life is incredibly short.
I fully agree with you there.
On whiff, this is a tough one.
I was a whiff holder for a long time, damn near a year.
Objectively, and I don't want to worry for anyone's bags to go down,
but it's hard to see the, the, the bulk case.
It feels like this one has kind of played out.
Blocker is sold.
The sphere funds have been returned.
It feels like it's, it's over and on to the next one.
So pour one out for our, our with hat friends and meme bags there.
Barcoin has been strong. It really has. Still over 500 million.
Let's see. Kind of a mixed day on the meme board here. Yeah. Basically everything is chopping.
Yesterday was really strong though. I think for some of these, I wrote a piece over for Decrypt
about the Farcoin surge yesterday. I think it was up.
Yeah, you're welcome.
I think it was up 20% or something like that yesterday, right? But it's up like more than 100% on the month.
It's gaining some mind share as well again.
And just anecdotally speaking from my timeline as well,
things, I'm starting to see more of those.
Maybe this has been perpetrated by you guys on the show.
The Farcoin is a leading indicator thing.
I think that's really just an us thing.
Yeah, okay.
Well, anyway.
I don't see many other people talking about it.
It's permeated my timeline a little bit.
And as I was doing the reporting yesterday,
I was kind of searching for other takes about that.
And there are a couple of tweets from a while back that are non FOMO hour
related about Farcoin being a leading indicator.
These are like February type tweets, but yeah.
We're spreading the good word. You can leave it at that, but we'll see.
Is it going to tell us where we're going to go?
Maybe Farcoin will tell us the results of liberation day before we get the details so this is going to be one chart
that i'll have pulled up folks the code is walrus the robot code is walrus so we will be doing those
spins here in about 15 or 20 minutes and actually that is a pretty good seg i believe we've got rohan from miston labs
in the studio with us so if we're able to get him up there he is rohan gm how you doing yeah i'm
good how are you guys doing doing very well we are anxiously awaiting what what is a very big thing here for stock markets, for our crypto tokens
as well. But man, what a week it has been for you. I'll give folks just a quick background.
If our listeners aren't aware, you should be aware. We've been talking about quite a bit
on this show, but Walrus recently launched on SWE. It's backed by Mistin Labs. Mistin Labs is the
team behind SWE Network. Walrus Protocol is set to revolutionize global data storage
and utilization. They're trying to bring more of the Web3 world on
chain. And they just announced a little over a week ago, $140
million in funding for some of the top VCs in crypto.
And then last week, the Walrus token. It went live.
Nearly $3 billion FDB, one of the most successful token launches we've had in quite some time.
So it's been a big week for you, Ron.
Have you had time to catch your breath?
How are you feeling here?
Matt, it never stops.
You know, being in Mists and Labs and being in such a high-performance environment, every day is day one.
It's a big milestone for us, absolutely.
Waters launching on Midnet with the TGE,
but now the groundwork has been laid.
Now it's time to scale from here, right?
So talk about catching breath.
A bit, yes, but it's go, go, go time.
Yes, well, we were excited that you took a few minutes away from
your very busy schedule to come talk to us. So I want our listeners to learn more, but maybe can
you just start with a little bit of background perhaps on yourself and then also a quick
overview of Walrus and the vision here? Absolutely. Yeah. We'd love to. Hey everyone
in the audience here. I'm Rohan. I am part of the deal and partnerships team here at
Mistin Labs, the team behind the launch of SUI as well as Walrus now. I've been with Mistin Labs for
about a year and a half. It's been an exciting journey. It's been a night and day from where
we were last year to where we are today, all the way from the community enthusiasm, the partnerships, the kind of
technological innovation we are bringing to the market. It's been nothing short of a magic moment
for the entire Web3 space, if you will. Prior to this, I've been in fintech space. I've been in
crypto long enough via M&A, management consulting. I led the team that launched apecoin back in 22 if anyone here kind
of remembers that with the yuga labs um so i've seen a few of these massive uh heads into the
market and spent enough time to know what works what doesn't work but if i were to bet uh on any
team in the web3 space at the moment it'll be missing labs and i'm glad to be part of on on
being on the same side yes i mean and the team
has been doing quite quite well uh tons of success with sui and now of course with with walrus so
that's a little bit of your background can you tell us a little bit more about walrus itself
and kind of the vision absolutely yeah look um so walrus at a very basic level it's a decentralized
data storage and data availability layer that's built natively on Sui.
It's designed essentially to power your next generation of high performance, data intensive applications,
all the way from your AI to gaming to real world assets and even modular blockchains.
We haven't seen this kind of foresight as well as innovation since the time of Filecoin and Arbeave and some of the other primitives that have existed.
So if you look at, unlike some of the other legacy solutions like Filecoin or even Celestia for that matter, which is a standalone DA, Walrus, what it really offers is your low latency, highly composable, smart contract integrated DA and data storage layer, which
offers in addition your on-chain incentives to prioritize all your valuable active data
assets.
So if we were to lay down the vision for where we want to go and what we want to be and what
the path ahead lays is we want to make data a first class citizen in Web3, similar to
how you have tokens, similar to how you have,
that includes both fungible and NFTs and smart contracts. So the ultimate goal becomes, if you
could imagine a future where you have AI agents that are fetching and verifying real-time data
on-chain, we want Walrus to be embedded there. If you have zero-knowledge machine learning models
that are referencing decentralized data sets for inference, we want Walrus and Sui to be powering that.
Think about modular blockchains and their histories and L2s that publish state affordably and verifiably.
That's where Walrus comes in.
So if I were to sum that up in a single line, think of Walrus as that data backbone of a decentralized and intelligent internet.
And that's what we're bringing to life.
Got it.
Well, I mean, that feels increasingly important as we get into this new AI era and the type
of infrastructure I think a lot of folks are starting to pay more and more attention to.
I am curious, who are your primary users?
How would you describe that to our listeners who may not have still a comprehensive understanding?
I know I believe Decrypt, of course, one of our partners is a partner with Walrus.
But curious if you could outline a few other examples.
Yeah, absolutely.
You pointed out Decrypt.
So we have a very good relationship with Elon and Paro, the rest of the crew here.
They were the first adopters of Walrus
and they've been our steady partner.
And in that front, we have another project partner
called Tusky, which you can think of it as a Google Drive
or Dropbox built on top of Walrus.
So now you can store your files with guarantees
that it's A, available, B, it's decentralized, and you can create your public and private walls,
depending upon the kind of usage you want to give to your end user.
And then we have projects on the L1 and L2 there.
So Plume Network is one of our other RWA L1 project that's leveraging Walrus.
So they will make Walrus as the core offering to not only storing the data
that they are generating on their network, but also to their broader ecosystem. So that becomes
a default storage layer for their broader ecosystem. So those kind of partnerships. And then we are
obviously, you heard about PlanoSource coming out of it. We have some exciting non-public information, which they're going to be utilizing
Walrus for storing a bunch of their IP and assets. And there's a lot more that will come in that
function, obviously on the AI front, which is such data intensive and data generating vertical.
So we have Atoma Network, which is your cloud compute side of the house. And then you have
Talus Network, which works on the AI-agentic framework.
So they're going to be making Waters as a core
where they're not only storing the data,
but when it comes to retrieving that data
to build smart contracts and applications,
they will be powering that via Sui's smart contracting language.
Got it. Well, I think that helps.
That helps paint the picture for what type of entities, businesses, teams, products are using LORIS.
So I think that does help at least me understand it a bit more.
Let's talk about Klaino. So this was a fun launch announcement. It took me by surprise.
So what was behind this one? Why did you all choose to launch with Klinosaurs and how are they integrating with
Loras? Yeah. As I pointed earlier, there's not much public information I'll be able to share
at this point, but they're one of definitely our marquee partners. This has been a long time coming
with a partnership team being deeply embedded and working side by side with the Klinosaurs team.
We think they're one of the best NFT projects
from the previous era that has actually transitioned
into today's needs and world and creative
and entirely immersive experience,
which they want to leverage technology for.
And we thought Sui and Walrus would be a great match for that.
And luckily for us, Cleanersource,
we're thinking along the same wavelength.
So we are planning on doing some exciting stuff. As I said, we'll have more public announcements
coming in the near future, in the next few weeks, I should say. So keep an eye out on that. So that's
the alpha you can expect from this call. But yeah, we are very excited to have them as our partner.
And the vision that they have
completely aligns with how we think about building the future, but from a technology lens.
Yeah. You love to hear it. It looks like right before the show, we may have gotten one more
announcement here, MyWebacy. Yeah.
The Zongqing risk analysis decision layer. Yeah. So as I said, the verticals keep popping up,
right? So this is one of the newer verticals on the
cybersecurity front. Now, this is risk and data analysis. So now think about a world
where you can have all of those data labels, like this wallet is verified, can be trusted
for whatever reasons, could be for airdrops or think about a future where enterprises are
starting to interact with
you know self-custody wallets they want to have some surety in terms of assurances that this is a trusted wallet we can onboard them onto our system or provide them special benefits etc right
so now webbc comes into the picture where they provide that risk analysis to their end parties
making sure that the wallets and the addresses that the enterprises,
businesses, or individuals are interacting with are real and verified and can be trusted. So these
will come with tons and tons of data labels to ensure, right? Using machine learning and AI to
ensure that the hits are as close to and in real time as possible,
but as much certainty that yes,
the other party that I'm interacting with is real.
Webacy and due diligence here,
DD comes from that vertical and they'll be storing
all of those data access, data flags,
data labels on Walrus,
which will eventually be retrieved not only by Webacy,
but their broader ecosystem.
They work with MetaMask and a bunch of other wallet providers,
and eventually with enterprises that will leverage this data set.
And that creates the data programmability layer around Walrus,
which we are so proud and trying to bring to the front.
Yeah, another great use case that highlights how exactly Walrus can be used.
So that was timely.
I'm happy we had that break right before the show
so rohan maybe taking a step back a higher level mainnet's live you've got the token
what what now what are you focused on what is the team focused on maybe
second part what are you most excited about here for the rest of 2025
there's a lot of taken in the kitchen here,
the easiest way to describe, right? So as I said, so mainnet launch and the TGE is day zero. Now,
the day one, every day is going to be day one for us, right? So it's all about bringing in the right
partners, you know, identifying new use cases that will end up benefiting the most from SUI and from Walrus.
But as we move into 2025, there are some exciting developments more broadly in the SUI ecosystem as a whole.
So some of them we are already starting to see from a number which are tangible in nature, right?
So you have DeFi specifically on SUI. It continues to rip.
There's major focus and we are seeing incredible growth.
Now, Sui is now also among the top six chains by Dex Volume, right?
So that highlights the rising adoption within our broader ecosystem.
We are rapidly expanding the key projects like we have SuiLend, Cetus,
you got Bluefin, which are driving more innovation, right?
That's powered by Sui.
It's low latency, fast consensus mechanisms.
That has never been done before in the Web3 space as a whole.
And a major milestone ahead is Phantom Wallet, right?
Coming out of beta.
We've been in beta with them for a while,
and we've been seeing some tremendous data behind the scenes as well. As most of the used crypto wallet with 15 million users, I think this will
be a real game changer for DeFi user acquisition, a lot of our social activity on chain, a lot of
new applications that will either be embedding phantom directly or working in tandem
because of our relationship that'll be huge so that phantom partnership is a significant step for us
which makes sui actually the first non-evm chain outside of solana that has integrated with the
wallet i mean yes granted phantom started on solana so that makes it uh the starting point
but we are very excited about about that and then, you'll start seeing so much more coming out on Walrus,
especially if you'll have some big announcements during our Sui base scam
that's happening in Dubai, May 1st and 2nd.
We'll be revealing a lot more partnerships,
a lot more exciting use cases that I think the community
and the broader ecosystem will love to see.
There are a lot of reasons to be excited.
The Phantom one was huge.
So I had an Ethos wallet from my early days interacting and transacting on Sui.
But I will admit personally, being able to access it via Phantom was a huge unlock.
And it's much more capital over there.
So I think that's going to continue to be a huge one
for you all well clearly plenty of reasons to be excited uh you know i want to give you a chance
here last question anything you want to leave our listeners with how they can get involved
any final thoughts for us here yeah as far as getting involved if you're a builder a developer
reach out to us we have three or four different avenues now. We obviously have our Discord channel where our community team is very active. You can reach out
to our Twitter handles directly, whether it be on Sui or on Walrus or even Missing Labs. We are
available. Our partnership team, deal team is available. I know our co-founders and founders,
they are very active on Twitter. I don't know if you've seen his tweets.
He's kind of our chief degen and evangelist for the entire ecosystem as a whole.
So he's always there.
Sam on the technology front, he's been breathtaking to watch in terms of how he thinks.
So these are kind of resources that's available.
Obviously, I am available, especially on the deal and partnerships team.
What I would leave the audience here is like we are starting to see a lot of institutional
adoption. I think that has changed over the last few months. And we're excited about the fact
because the premise of Sui and Walrus and the entire Mr. Labs team is how do we make it easier
for the masses to come on to BEP3 as a whole?
And that's kind of been the starting point.
The North Star, it's still that.
And with the changing admin and regime, we're going to start seeing a lot more adoption come to life.
So a partnership with teams like DeLorean Labs, with MoviePass, with One Championship,
with MoviePass, with one championship.
We're starting to see that type turn with partnerships
with large financial institutions and Bitcoin, BTC5.
I was about to call it Bitcoin5.
And our partnership with Lombard and Babylon.
I think those are the things that are really exciting
because now you can actively strategize
for your offense and your defense.
Doesn't matter whether it's your bear market or bull market. Now you can really see the fuller picture of how the large institutions and what
they're looking for will be enticed to come into Web3. And what are the smaller builders who are
actually looking to build on enterprise-grade technology that powers the vision and the
underlying business that they want to build and bring to life.
Well, I love that mission and that vision
to try to bring more of the world on chain into Web3.
So love giving a platform and a chance
to amplify the message of every team doing that.
So Rowan, it's been amazing.
I want to congratulate you on the success again
of mainnet launch and the token launch here in the past week.
So hopefully everyone had a chance
to do a little bit of celebration
and recognize the event that's taken place.
But I know everyone's heads down
and working on these next wave of announcements.
So wish you guys the best.
We'll certainly be covering it on our end.
It was great to have a chance
to catch up here this morning.
Thanks so much, guys.
Yeah, appreciate the platform
and great chatting with you all.
Awesome.
Well, we will talk to you soon, Rohan.
Thank you very much.
Folks, that is going to wrap up our interview,
but we still have that roll bit spin.
So if we've got our spinner ready to go,
I guess one last chance to enter the code for today was walrus.
Walrus was the code for today was walrus walrus was the code it looks like we are about to do
the draw are we ready
what's E2G?
All right.
You're off the top of the top.
OX E2G, you won't.
All right.
What's up?
Go ahead and request.
You've got to come up on stage.
And if you're on, what's up? We'll go ahead and give you that pin. OX E2G. go x e2g all right i see
E2G.
All right.
I see.
He's here.
All right.
Someone is up on with us.
Okay.
I'm always thrown off when the Twitter handle or tag doesn't match the name there.
So, NFT, Eric, GM, you what?
Hey, what's up, guys?
Congrats.
How are you feeling?
I'm feeling great.
That's pretty amazing.
Okay, I have to write right off the bat to explain the punk was just an April Fool's joke,
and I haven't switched it, so I need to switch it.
And I got no interaction on that.
All right.
Yeah, that happens to the best of us.
Well,
good disclosure.
So that the zombie punk is not yours.
That's good to know.
It's easier for us to root for you now to win a punk.
So I got to switch that.
My bad.
Yeah.
So let's pull it up and let's,
let's do the spin.
Let's do it.
Let's win.
Let's win a real one.
Here we go and it's a wreck guy it looks like a nice one well well above floor there 1300 value
so oh let's go i love that i appreciate you guys yeah congrats nice little uh reward for
for listening to our show here this morning thank you for tuning in the team will be working with you right after the show here to get you that
rec guy quite a nice one uh so congrats appreciate you guys thank you so much and you guys do a
fantastic job obviously you know that uh but yeah always gonna be listening and uh always gonna be
supportive so appreciate you guys well appreciate you as well folks that is it that is going to be supportive. So appreciate you guys. Appreciate you as well. Folks, that is it. That is going to be our show.
I want to thank our listeners as always. I want to thank our partners.
I want to thank my co-hosts. I want to thank Rohan for coming on and giving us a great conversation
and background on Walrus. We will be back tomorrow at 10 a.m.
Eastern. Until then, go make it a great day. Goodbye. We'll be right back. Thank you. We'll be right back.
